# LLMs-Full.txt - Full Content for Project Pages # Generated on: 2026-09-09T02:47:48.344Z # Total pages: 260 --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/home ### Title: Red Door Stories | StoryBrand Story-Selling System ### Page ID: 1985494 ### Content: ## Being great at what you do isn't enough anymore. #### AI has made it easier than ever to look polished, sound smart, and market a business. ## You shouldn't have to become louder to become the *obvious* choice. #### The problem is, you're too close to your own work to see what makes you different. #### You can't read the label from inside the bottle. #### And if you can't make that difference clear, your clients won't see it either. ## Build a brand that makes *you* the one people think of first. #### When your brand makes it clear why you're the obvious choice: #### **Co-Author of *StoryBrand Your Coaching Business* with Donald Miller** ## If you sell your expertise, your thinking, or your time, *this book* is for you. ## When your brand is clear, everything in your business gets easier. #### I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! Best money spent. #### I'm closing 95% of my sales calls now that I have clarity. #### I saw a 986% increase in conversions in the first 30 days! #### I'm now charging 6X more for the exact same service. #### I booked my first $15K speaking gig using my new messaging. #### Clients are already sold before I get on the call. #### *Introducing...* ## Build the brand and business you want to be known for. ## Your 90 Day Roadmap # Every business is unique. We'll look at where your business is now, where you want it to go, and focus on the work that will make the biggest difference. ### 1\. Get Clear ### 2\. Get Known ### 3\. Get Clients ## You don't need another marketing guru telling you what to do. # You need someone who can see what you can't see from inside your own business. ## You already have what makes you different. ## You'll have a story that sets you apart. ## A reputation for what you do best. ### **Website Messaging** ### **StoryBrand Soundbites** ### **One-Liner** ### **Video Script** ## A brand people remember. ## And a simpler strategy for growth. #### Offering Clarity ### Pricing Strategy ### Email Sequence ### Sales Call Confidence ### BONUS: A client testimonial video, which I create for you ## Ready to become the obvious choice? #### Let's find what makes you impossible to ignore. ## Wondering if it's *worth* the investment? ## Everyone asks the same *question*. #### **"Will it actually sound like me?"** ## "This is arguably the *best website* I've ever seen" #### — Donald Miller, Author of Building a StoryBrand ## Have you wasted *years* trying to find the *right* words? ## Do people not *understand* what makes you different? ## Are you doing *too much* of the selling yourself? ## This is *not* another diy course or group program. ## It's just *you and me*, 1 on 1. ## Investing in a *clear message* pays for itself. #### **I easily wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own.** #### I have saved myself so much time, money *and* mental agony #### A comprehensive service at this price point is rare. #### **I have confidence knowing** #### it's done right. What a relief! #### **I made 100K in just 93 days with my Signature Story!** #### **I immediately got 2 new high-ticket clients.** ## **FREE VIDEO & TOOLKIT** ## The Five StoryBrand Soundbites That Bring You *More* *Clients.* ### Write your five soundbites in 10 minutes. #### **Use five simple phrases that sell.** #### **Apply them everywhere to increase revenue.** #### **Explain what you do in seconds.** ## "Kris figured out in *one session* what no one else could crack in years." #### **I spent a small fortune trying to get my messaging right with other 'marketing experts'.** #### **I wish I had found Kris first. My new site just went live today, and I LOVE it!** #### —Susan Filan ***You'll leave knowing the #1 mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** You’ve built a successful business. Now let’s build the brand, story, and strategy that make the right clients choose you over everyone else. **What did I learn working with these companies? The power of Story.** **Now everyone in your industry is starting to look and sound the same.** **And when clients can't see what makes you different, they don't choose the best person.** **They choose the one who's better at marketing themselves.** ✘ You're losing clients to people who aren't as good as you. ✘ You've wasted money on so-called marketing gurus that got you nowhere. ✘ You know you're different, but you can't put it into words. For more than 20 years, I've helped some of the world's biggest brands shape clearer stories. Then I started my own business and couldn't do it for myself. **I knew exactly what I was good at. I could not make anybody else understand it.** My website said one thing. My LinkedIn said another. And none of it sounded like me. **That's when I discovered StoryBrand and began working with Donald Miller.** He showed me how to do for myself what I'd been doing for everyone else. **Today, I'm the founder of Red Door Stories and co-author of *StoryBrand Your Coaching Business* with Donald Miller.** And I use those same principles to help business owners become the obvious choice. You stop having to convince people you're worth your price. **Your website, socials, and marketing tell one clear story.** *Co-author of StoryBrand Your Coaching Business with Donald Miller* This is a 1:1 mentorship for established coaches, consultants, and service providers who want more of the right clients and a simpler way to grow. Together, we'll uncover what makes you different, turn it into one clear story, and build a strategy that gets you known for your expertise. Someone who can pull the best ideas out of your head. Help you make the decisions you've been putting off. And stay with you long enough to actually put it all to work. Together, we'll uncover the story only you can tell and make it clear why you're the obvious choice. I’ll personally interview one of your favorite clients and draw out the story of their transformation. Then I’ll edit it into a polished testimonial video you can use across your marketing. Nothing builds trust faster. ***Included when you say yes within 24 hours of our Money-Making Messaging call.*** I’ll also show you exactly how I do it, so you can create more powerful client stories in the future. **✓** **What's keeping you from becoming the obvious choice.** **✓** **What to focus on to get more of the right clients.** "**I saw a 986% increase in conversions** within 30 days." "**One new client more than covered my investment**. I had 3 client calls booked within 7 days." **"I'm now charging 6X more for the exact same service**. Within just a few weeks my pipeline filled up and my revenue was 40% higher than my previous highest month." "**I'm booked solid for the next 6 months** and already making $100K above my best year ever." "**It was so easy because Kris did the heavy lifting**. And yet I was engaged in just enough to make sure the copy was truly aligned with my voice." **"Kris figured out in one session what no one else could crack in years.** I spent a small fortune trying to get my messaging right with other 'marketing experts'. I wish I had found Kris first. **My messaging went from mismatched plaids & checks to a streamlined look that finally fits.** Now my clients know who I am and what I do. They see why they need me because they're not confused anymore." I worried no one else could capture my voice. **The process brought it to life online in a heartfelt, genuine way.** It was astounding. "**I wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own.** If only I had invested in myself sooner. **Now that I have the right words, I'm way more confident.** I use those words in everything I do." "I read StoryBrand but didn't have the brain space to figure out how to implement it myself. **Kris saved me so much time.**" "Before Kris, I kept second-guessing myself. I was too close to my own work **Kris provided the perspective I needed to communicate clearly**." "The clarity gave me confidence, saved me so much time, and brought me **peace of mind knowing my message is truly resonating with the right people."** "**I immediately got two high-ticket clients** after updating my website." "**I'm closing 95% of my sales calls.** The story helped me get clear in my own mind about what I do. It's boosted my confidence and made me feel like an expert." "**Getting just one new client more than covered my investment.** I have more time because my website does the selling for me." "**My business** **grew to the point where I needed to bring on a partner.** That was my ultimate goal." "**I feel the kind of joy that comes with knowing I'm on the right path**. Kris will change your life. I am not kidding." You need an outside perspective, a clear strategy, and someone who knows how to turn what makes you different into something your clients can immediately understand. I'll bring the strategy, frameworks, outside perspective, and feedback. You'll bring your expertise and willingness to put the work into action. *Brand & Growth Strategy for Experts Who Want to Stand Out* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog-2-2 ### Title: Blog ### Page ID: 1365003 ### Content: # Articles and resources to help you # optimize your StoryBrand Website # What is a StoryBrand BrandScript? # How much does it cost to hire a StoryBrand certified guide? # What Donald Miller's StoryBrand Tells us About Marketing # 3 StoryBrand BrandScript Examples and How To DIY # The 5 Best Ways to Share Your Brand Story Through Video # Donald Miller Called This “One of the Best StoryBrand Websites”—Here’s Why # Donald Miller Called This “One of the Best StoryBrand Websites”—Here’s Why # Hey, there! # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! #### Congrats! If you're looking to create a powerful, compelling brand for your business, you need to start with your brand's story. In this blog post, we'll discuss what a StoryBrand BrandScript is and how you can use it to create an effective branding strategy for your business. If you're interested in [learning more about StoryBrand](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/copy), or if you want help implementing it into your business, consider [hiring a certified guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/copy). In this blog post, we will discuss the cost of hiring a StoryBrand certified guide. When it comes to marketing, there are a lot of different opinions out there. But one thing is for sure: you need to have a clear message if you want to be successful. That's where Donald Miller's StoryBrand comes in. In this blog post, we will discuss what StoryBrand is and how it can help your business succeed! In today's crowded marketplace, it can be challenging to make your brand stand out. That's where StoryBrand comes in. StoryBrand is a marketing framework that helps businesses clarify their core message, and connect with their customers in a more powerful way. ​Video is a powerful marketing tool and there’s no question that you should be using it for your business. If you’re a service-based company, though, product videos might not be as feasible. Here are five other effective kinds of video that you can use to enhance your brand’s message and attract more clients: Most coaching websites lead with credentials instead of clarity, and it costs them clients. In this episode, I walk through a real StoryBrand website transformation that Donald Miller called one of the best he'd seen for a coach or consultant. Most coaching websites lead with credentials instead of clarity, and it costs them clients. In this episode, I walk through a real StoryBrand website transformation that Donald Miller called one of the best he'd seen for a coach or consultant. I'm Kris Jones, and I'm so happy we've connected. Most business owners struggle when writing for their own business. My streamlined process gets you copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so you can double revenue and stay in your zone of genius. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. You have taken the first step to attracting more ideal clients with less effort. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/page-not-found ### Title: Page Not Found ### Page ID: 1365007 ### Content: The page you are looking for has been moved, removed or maybe it was never here. Find your way back to the site by clicking the link below: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/reset-password-page ### Title: Reset password page ### Page ID: 1365009 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/see-my-work ### Title: Client Results ### Page ID: 1655530 ### Content: # My client paid $25k to have Donald Miller review the website I wrote for her. #### Here's what he said... ## I saw a 986% increase in conversions in the first 30 days of going live! #### You took the time to understand my business, my customers, and me. And that's, the secret sauce most marketing experts don't do. The ROI was incredible and I saved so much time too! ## I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! #### This is the best money I've spent since opening my business. I'm more confident with less stress... and crushing it! ## Getting this clear about what I do was priceless. #### You can't put a price tag on it because the the benefits will continue as long as I'm working. It's timeless! **And the psychology behind Kris' approach totally blew my mind!** ## I love Kris Jones’ work! #### **"Marketing should not be a black box investment. It won't be if you hire Kris."** ## Clients are already sold before I get on the phone with them. #### **It was so easy for me because Kris did the heavy lifting. And yet, I was engaged in just enough to make sure the copy truly was aligned with my voice.** ## I immediately got two high-ticket clients after updating my website. ## It felt too good to be true, and yet is was true! #### **I wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own. If only I had invested in myself sooner. Now that I have the right words, I'm way more confident — and I use those words in everything I do!** ## “I'm booked solid for the next 6 months and already making $100k above my best year ever!” ## More clarity = I'm closing 95% of my sales calls. #### **Crafting my Signature Story helped me get clear in my own mind about what I do and how I do it. It's boosted my confidence and** **made me feel like an expert.** ## Kris helped me go farther, faster with the right Story. #### **When I saw my Story it was like, '*yes, this is me in words*' and I didn't have those words until now. It was really freeing and rewarding.** ## This is the best investment I've made in my business. #### **I can finally talk about the work I do with clarity and confidence. Now it doesn't just connect, it actually excites the people I care about reaching.** ## This clarity has been life-changing for my business. #### **My website now resonates with my ideal clients.  It's the guiding force in booking more calls and making money in my business!** ## My finances increased exponentially once I got my story right. #### **“You can’t afford not to do this. The clarity gave me confidence, saved me so much time, and brought me peace of mind knowing that my message is truly resonating with the right people.** ## I made 93K in the last 3 months with my Story! #### **This was literally the answer to my prayers. I finally have words that resonate with my ideal client and increase conversions. Having Kris by my side and not having to do it alone made it so efficient.** ## Now people go to my website and sign up for my community all by themselves! ####  **I feel so much more on top of it, so much more confident when I say who I am and what I do. I can reach more people with less effort because they can easily understand the problem I solve.** ## Everyone I've shown my website to has been wowed by it. #### **Kris helped me create one coherent story on my website that I'm now proud of.** I'm no longer paralyzed and can get back to focusing on what I do best. ## I'm now reaching the people who need what I offer. #### This created an income for me that can help me live my best life. I get tingles when I know things are right. And I have that happening right now. ## Home run! The message was so clear I wanted to buy my own stuff! ####  And when you came back with that wireframe. I was just blown away.  it just came together into this beautiful blend of awesomeness. ## I feel the kind of joy that comes with knowing I'm on the right path. #### Kris will change your life. I am not kidding. Hire Kris and you will know exactly what to do in your business and how to do it. #### I'm finally able to carry out my deeper Purpose because all the clutter has been cleaned away and replaced with clarity ## I teared up when I saw our new Signature Story. #### After wasting so much time trying to do it on my own, you were able to put it together in such a clear and concise way. Our new Signature Story speaks to the hearts of our ideal clients and we're already seeing results! ## Kris keeps it simple and every step felt easy. #### **I was really happy with the Story we crafted and have been using it in every area of my business. That box is checked on having a solid, clear sales page that works. Also, seeing how she runs her business has helped me simplify how I run mine.** ## I'm charging 6X more for the exact same service. #### **I was not making enough, burning out and about to close the doors of my business — so investing in Kris was a big leap.** #### **I know what I do, but she helped me communicate it in a simple way that resonated with my ideal clients.** #### **Now that my business is cohesive and aligned from the inside out, I show up more confidently and our clients see us in a more elevated way. I even have a sense of swagger about my brand.** #### **Within just a few weeks, my pipeline filled up and my revenue was 40% higher than my previous highest month!** #### **If you're struggling to reach your target market or command the price point you know you deserve, Red Door is the perfect fit.** ## I have such a sense of calm knowing it's done right. #### **I love StoryBrand but found it really hard to implement on my own. Kris made it easy! Now, having a website that's doing the heavy lifting for us is just so calming — and our waitlist is filling up.** ## A comprehensive service at this price point is rare. #### **I used to avoid sending people to my website. Now it's the first place I send them because I have confidence in my messaging. I use the same story every single place I appear online including social media, linked in, my email signature and more!** ## I have peace of mind with a clear plan to ensure my growth continues. #### **My site was a muddled mess that was undermining my credibility. It was embarrassing. Kris saved me from many ineffective rabbit holes. She helped me avoid mistakes I would have made because I just didn't know.** #### **Now I feel a sense of pride about my website. I have peace of mind with a clear plan in place to ensure my growth continues.** #### **Having her as a trusted advisor and a brilliant thought partner was the very best thing I could have done for my business.** ## There's no one better to work with in this business. #### **The most delightful part of the process is working with Kris herself. There is no one like Kris Jones. She will understand the essence of your business, like she did mine and she will create a beautiful product that has resonance with clients. And she'll do it in a way that full of joy, play and beauty.** ## YES, it's working! She hit the home run I hoped for. #### **I may (or may not) have shed some tears when I saw my Story come together. There's a real comfort and confidence having everything aligned and cohesive.** #### **My practice grew to the point where I needed to bring on a partner, which was my ultimate goal.** ## “The quality of Red Door's work is miles apart from anyone else in the market.” #### **BEFORE & AFTER** ## I'm more articulate and my confidence has grown. #### **I couldn't really articulate what it was that I needed to say to bring my Story to life... which was really frustrating. Kris helped me do it in a way that was authentic and allowed me to become more articulate and confident with my clients. Now they can see the value of the work I provide.** #### **The psychology she interwove behind her approach was so fascinating.** ## All the things that were foggy became clear. #### **I was worried if I hired someone, they wouldn't be able to capture my essence. But the process allowed me to express myself online in a heartfelt and genuine way. It was astounding!** ## The clarity helped me take my foot off the breaks and accelerate. #### **Before Kris, I kept second guessing myself and the story I was trying to write — like writers block. I was too close to my own work and Kris provided the perspective I needed to communicate clearly. Now I'm reinvigorated about my business!** ## I felt really seen and heard throughout the process. #### I felt a lot lighter. Like, whew, that load is off of my back and now I can really get to the work of helping others (and not being bogged down with marketing). ## It was really freeing. My Story brought clarity to every facet of my business. #### **I read StoryBrand but didn't have the brain space to figure out how to implement it myself. Kris saved me so much time!** ## It was a miracle how she brought forth my purpose. Now I can share it with the world! #### **I was really stuck and frustrated trying to communicate the depth of what I do. I'd spend hours explaining my work to potential clients each week. Now my website does all that for me. I have a streamlined platform in which to grow.** #### **Kris really listened and distilled my Story for me. My overwhelm melted away and was replaced with calm, confidence and clarity.** ## You gave me back my energy and you gave me back my time. #### **Kris, what you did for me was help me to discover who I am and to be confident in who I am. I was able to really have more clarity around what it is that I do and what makes me stand out.** #### **I didn't have to figure it all out on my own anymore.It felt lighter, freer, more streamlined, like I could concentrate on what I love to do — and not have to worry about the things that I don't love to do.** ## I feel proud sending people to my website! #### My website now does the work of selling for me so they are already sold before getting on a discovery call with me. I feel confident and peaceful! ## I feel more confident, better prepared, and even excited to do sales calls because I have a framework that simply walks people through the narrative. #### I had that whole bottle effect where I was too close to my business and couldn’t talk about it clearly.  I now have a beautiful website. Our work together has definitely shortened the sales cycle for me too, so that’s been huge! # Take your brand from confusing to clear! #### Case studies of clients experiencing big wins and accelerated growth. # “My revenue is 40% higher!” #### Goals: #### Scope of Work: #### Results: # “Everything feels more organized and purposeful.” ##### ***East Portland Sash Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “I went from a cookie-cutter website to something that 100% resonates.” ##### ***Dr. Kim Okamura Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “It's an entirely new way of approaching brand storytelling & website design.” ##### ***Loretta Soffe Consulting Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “We've had a record breaking number of lead calls booked every month.” ##### ***PDX Home Loan Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “My message is clear, connects, and gets potential clients excited to work with me.” ##### ***MultiGen Wealth Strategies Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “Business is literally booming and I have such peace of mind about my message.” ##### ***Worktank Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “We've been getting more leads than ever before!” ##### ***Catchall Environmental Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “StoryBrand strategy makes it easy for potential clients to say yes.” ##### ***Pivotal Consulting Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “We're so proud to send patients to our site and show off our brand story.” ##### ***Dr. Jay Harris Levy Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “What Kris delivered is focused, clean and effective.” ##### ***Wine Paddle Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** *"Just a few weeks after our project completed, it was obvious that our new branding was helping us reach our goals. The sales pipeline was filling up. And we closed a number of deals with clients that were perfectly aligned with the new client profile we had envisioned.*  *December, which is typically a challenging month for us, was the best month in our history. Our revenue will be 40% higher than the previous highest revenue month!"* East Portland Sash are experts in vintage wood window restoration. While they had a great brand foundation, their website was dated and didn’t fully explain their level of expertise. *“Kris helped us clarify our messaging and concentrate on the most important aspects of our brand and marketing material. The result is that our marketing strategies are now unified into a few key pieces that effectively encapsulate our mission.* ***Everything feels more organized and purposeful.*** *As a client, you can trust Kris to expertly guide you though the marketing process, give feedback that will help clarify your message, and give you a product that is incredibly high quality.” — Geoffrey Halsey* The client knew she wanted an entirely new marketing approach that infused her personality into a professional dentistry practice, but struggled to find a creative approach that resonated with her vision.  *“We went from a flat, cookie-cutter website to something that 100% resonates with our team’s personality and professional approach. There is continuity with our practice vision, reputation, team members and relationships with each of our patients.* *The whole process was really fun and positive, and the one-on-one discussions helped me discover who I am and what my business message is. Kris’s superpower is identifying what makes someone unique and expressing that through design and messaging. I made a smart decision to seek her expertise! ” —Dr. Kim Okamura* Loretta is an expert in her field, but her brand message and online presence weren’t representing her level of expertise. She was missing opportunities for new clients by not connecting with her ideal audience. *“After working with Red Door, my online presence is super clear and compelling! My favorite part of the process was creating my brand story and highlighting how I solve my customers problems.*  *Red door delivers an entirely new way of approaching brand strategy & website design. I’m so glad I took the leap of investing in my business and myself. It was so worth it.” —Loretta Soffe* Potential clients would visit PDX’s site, but not engage because the messaging wasn’t connecting. The client was frustrated because prospects weren’t converting to clients.  *“Kris up-leveled my brand and prospect engagement has gone through the roof. My favorite part was the strategic planning around the customer journey and seeing it all come together.*  *If you nod your head when it comes to the StoryBrand approach, engaging with Red Door is the best way to implement that strategy.” —James Adair* The client found himself “stuck” when asked to explain his services. He wanted content that was compelling and messaging that connected with prospective clients. *“I can easily describe my business in a way that really connects with potential clients and gets them excited about working with me.* *My favorite part about working with Kris was strategizing with her about my business and having her reflect it in a clear, concise manner.* *If you are considering hiring Red Door, just write the check--you'll waste more money striking out on failed marketing attempts than you'll ever spend on Red Door Designs.” — Andrew Sherman* The client knew they had a solid business strategy, but their website was outdated and desperately in need of a makeover. They wanted a way to communicate their unique value in an industry where most companies take a cookie-cutter approach to marketing.  *“After working with Red Door, we now have a gorgeous new website I am proud to send people to. I have a clear path to the resources I need for design and website support. I feel such peace of mind knowingI have a website/brand partner for my business.*  *Business is literally booming and I know Red Door has my back.* *If you're on the fence about working with Kris, take the leap! With Kris, you have the chance to powerfully expand on your brand's presence in the digital world. She can break it down for you and make it manageable and achievable.” —Leslie Rugaber* The client had taken the StoryBrand course and saw the value of using its framework to clarify his company’s messaging, but he didn’t have time to develop a website while also managing his business. He wanted a Storybrand Certified Coach who could help him further develop his messaging and make a standout website.  *“We have been getting more web activity and leads than ever before!* *I feel peace of mind knowing that our messaging is finally on target. Now I can be confident that whoever goes to our website will get a clear grasp of who we are and how we can help.* *Kris' extensive experience with StoryBrand really came through in our new website. She’s also a highly competent marketing consultant and web designer. This makes Red Door extremely effective while also affordable.” —Jim Winskill* Pivotal had already onboarded several large corporations and high end clients, but their website and messaging didn’t communicate their industry expertise. They wanted to rebrand their online presence and marketing materials to reflect the dynamic solutions and high end services they provided for top tier clients.  *​"Using StoryBrand, we refined Pivotal’s messaging and made it easy for prospective clients to say yes to a consultation. The result is a fresh and clean cut design that is anything but boring! Top tier clients are prominently displayed on the landing page, and content that makes an emotional connection with their target audience."* Jay is a brilliant industry leader with an amazing story, but his old website was vastly outdated which made him appear unprofessional. He needed a site that could connect with patients as well as dentists who needed his teaching seminars. This presented a unique challenge as we had to appeal to two different target audiences with one main message.  *"Our biggest challenge was that we had no real brand. Our website was antiquated. It was embarrassing and unorganized. Until we met Kris, creating a new website that would help to build our brand seemed daunting. Her enthusiasm, creative mind, and easy step-by-step process made the entire project feel so manageable.* *Now, we are so proud to direct potential patients to the site to show off our office philosophy and brand story. It is visually impactful and engaging. It is a true depiction of what we stand for and what makes us unique.* *Stop settling for mediocre results. Kris will walk you through a very exciting process right to the end. Launch day will be a celebration and you will take pride in the finished product.​" —Dawn Kephart* Dan knew he had a great product, but he wanted it to sizzle. He needed someone who could take his product and turn it into a high end message that would connect in a sophisticated and crowded industry.   *“Kris took my idea and transformed it into a striking website that captures the mood and promise and of my product. Her conviction and fearless vision helped me transform a simple product into a brand that is beautiful and deeply appealing.* *If you are considering Red Door, spend the money. You get what you pay for. Kris is strategic with her ideas and designs. And what she delivers is focused, clean and effective.” —Dan Mages* *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Communicate their value to a new and more complex market. - Align their branding with they are today, and who they want to become. - Increase annual revenue. - Logo & Branding - Website Design & Build - Photoshoot Art Direction & Mood Board - Podcast Cover Design & Landing Page - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Website Messaging & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Photoshoot Art Direction - Website Messaging & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Photoshoot Art Direction - Website Messaging & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Photoshoot Art Direction - Website Messaging & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Photoshoot Art Direction - Website Messaging & Design - Lead Magnet Strategy & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Logo & Brand Refinement - Website Messaging & Design - Photoshoot Art Direction - Lead Magnet Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Website Messaging & Design - Photoshoot Art Direction - Lead Magnet - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Logo and Brand Refinement - StoryBrand Strategy - Website Messaging & Design - Lead Magnet Design & Sales Funnel - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Logo and Brand Refinement - StoryBrand Strategy - Website Messaging & Design - Lead Magnet Design & Sales Funnel - Photoshoot Art Direction - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Logo & Brand Creation - Website Messaging & Design - Photoshoot Art Direction - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/about-kris-jones ### Title: About ### Page ID: 1655750 ### Content: # Ready to breathe new life into your brand story and business? #### Let's elevate the way you show up online so you can get more cients, feel more confident and have the time to focus on what matters. # You’re a total master of your craft. #### **But when it comes to marketing?**  #### **​**Your brand doesn't reflect your level of awesome. #  As a business owner myself, # I know how overwhelming it can feel. #### When I was starting out, all I wanted was someone to step in and: # "Kris' extensive experience with StoryBrand really came through in our new website. We have been getting more web activity and leads than ever before!" # Red Door is your Clarity Mission Control #### A better connection with your clients will yield the growth you’ve been craving. # What’s StoryBrand? # Sales are up 26% over last year! Through balancing design and strategy, Red Door has been key to our ongoing success. # Who’s behind the big Red Door? #### When you want a Brand Story that connects and a website that works, come to Red Door. 1\. Take the time to deeply understand what I’m all about 2\. Show me how to balance design and marketing strategy 3\. Transform my brand and website into tools that work I wanted a partner in growth, not just an expert in marketing and design.  I'm certified in the StoryBrand Marketing Framework – a proven system for creating marketing that helps you win more business.​ You don’t need to be Don Draper to know that people don’t buy products and services. They buy stories. So to succeed online, prepare to get crystal clear on your message or get lost in the shuffle. A powerful framework and marketing system that harnesses the power of story to grow your business. **And literally thousands of companies are 10-xing growth and making millions using it.** **I’m not just a StoryBrand strategist and designer. I’m also an entrepreneur.** And while I’d love to gush about how I started a door to door custom craft company at age 8—yep, still have my first biz card—or how I convinced playdates to help me make trifold brochures (nerd alert!) this was just child’s play. I’ve since bootstrapped and sold one company, created another that doubles in revenue every year, been an ad agency art director and worked at Nike. **So when I say I understand what it’s like to start, run, and grow a business?** I’m talking about in-the-trenches experience. I’m here to bring balance and clarity to your brand. *And* give your bottom line a boost. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/podcasts ### Title: Podcasts ### Page ID: 1655829 ### Content: # Learn how to use your story to attract a steady stream of clients. # 5 StoryBrand Soundbites to Clarify Your Message and Become the Go-To Authority # Replace All Your Marketing with One Story # How to Grow a Consulting Business in Uncertain Times # How to Replace All Your Marketing With a Single Story # Behind Every Success Story Are Real Life Challenges # How to Replace ALL Your Marketing with a Single Story # How Story Selling Can Attract More Clients # Replace All Your Marketing with One Story in Just 7 Minutes # Storytelling That Sells: How One Narrative Can Transform Your Business # Effortless Testimonial Gathering for Service Providers # How to Replace All Your Marketing with a Single Story # Getting Referrals and Going From Clicks to Clients in a Single Story # The Website Fix That'll Turn Your Messaging Into a Client Magnet # How One Signature Story Can Supercharge Your Marketing # How to Turn Your Story Into Your Strongest Sales Tool - Without the Sleaze # How to Turn Clicks Into Clients: The Story-Driven Website Method # Replace Your Marketing Machine with a Single Story # Get Clear on Your Story # Why Your Website Isn't Working (Top 3 Mistakes) # How to Replace All Your Marketing with a Single Story # Stories That Sell with StoryBrand Copywriter Kris Jones # Grow Your Podcast Through Powerful Storytelling # Creating Your Brand Story # The Power of Storytelling for Business Success # How to Replace ALL Your Marketing with One Story # Unlock Your Website's Potential: Turn Visitors Into Paying Clients # Storytelling That Sells: 3 Keys to a Website That Wins Clients # The Secret Formula for Crafting a Brand Statement That Sells Your Book # Convert Clients Without the Sales Struggle # From Solo to Success: How Kris Jones Scaled Her Design Agency 384% # From Click to Client: A Chat with Kris Jones # How One Story Can Replace All of Your Marketing with Clarity & Effectiveness # Peaceful Profits Review: Transform Your Business with Powerful Storytelling Strategies # Crafting a Signature Story for Business Growth # The Power of Storytelling # The Story-Selling System # How to Use Storytelling in Your Business # Storytelling: The Secret to Attracting Your Dream Clients # Kris Jones: Simplifying Writing for ADHD Brains # What's More Important in Your Website: Substance or Style? # Strategically Take a Year Off Instagram # A Conversation with the Founder of Red Door Designs # Maximizing Your Message # Storybrand to Clarify Your Coaching Program # How to Write Sales Copy That Sells # How to Write Compelling SALES COPY that Explodes Your REVENUE # The Secret to High Converting Copy # Behind the Red Door: Kris Jones' Path to Entrepreneurial Excellence # Certified StoryBrand Guide # Clear Copy That Converts: An Interview with Kris # How to Tell Your Story to Connect and Convert Clients # Eavesdrop on a StoryBrand Coaching Session by Kris Jones # How to Create Your Marketing Message in 5 Simple Steps # Unleashing The Power of Storytelling In Your Copy # Story Brand Copy that Sells with Red Door Designs CEO # Website Copy that Sells # Writing Compelling Copy # Using Storytelling for Better Marketing – Write Your Elevator Pitch with Us! # How to Use Storytelling to Write Your Website Homepage # How to Answer the Question, "What do you Do?" with Storybrand Expert Kris Jones # Getting off the hamster wheel of the 9 to 5. # Talk About Quick Copywriting That Sells ## The Hero's Journey to a Successful Photography Website ## Mastering the Art of Sales Page Copy That Sells ## How to Write Website Copy That Sells—In 2.5 Hours Flat # Create Compelling Copy That Converts # Create Compelling Copy That Converts # How To Answer "What Do You Do?" When You're A Health Coach # 5 Mistakes Most Business Owners Make with Copywriting # How to Write Sales Copy That Explodes Revenue # Powerful Storytelling That Increases Revenue # How Effective Storytelling Can Get You More Clients # The Storytelling Framework That Will Make You More Sales # How to Write Compelling Website Copy that Sells # How to Attract More Clients Through Effective Storytelling # Creating a Strategic Website to Attract Your Dream Clients # How to Leverage Storytelling in your Business # How to Sell the Transformation by Story-telling **Click** **'Follow Show'** **(upper right corner) to get instant access to New Episodes!** With Kris Jones, Melanie Battistelli and Branda Villacob Get Out of Your Head & Grow Your Online Business Podcast **The process of writing copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat!** *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/portfolio ### Title: Portfolio ### Page ID: 1655853 ### Content: # I believe in a 'less, but better' approach to marketing. We work with clients who are ready to make big changes, stand out from the crowd and who understand the transformative power behind a strategic brand and website. Large agencies typically charge $50k+ for brand and web design. I know because they often hire me directly to design for them. ​Red Door provides big agency quality directly to service based business owners who want the same high-end feel for less money. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/free-resources ### Title: Secret Resources ### Page ID: 1655905 ### Content: #### **FREE VIDEO & TOOLKIT** #### **Use five simple phrases that sell.** #### **Apply them everywhere to increase revenue.** #### **Explain what you do in seconds.** # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! #### **FREE VIDEO >> STOP LOSING SALES WITH MEDIOCRE COPY** #### Communicate Your Value #### Simplify Your Marketing #### Know It's Done Right #### PRIVATE PODCAST >> JUST RELEASED >> GET INSTANT ACCESS ## The hard truth most service providers don't want to face... #### **Right now, your ideal clients are likely visiting your website...** #### **and quietly clicking away to your competitors.** #### **Captivate ideal clients in 7 seconds** #### (even if you hate selling) #### **Turn your site into your top salesperson** #### working 24/7 while you sleep #### **Command premium rates with a story** #### that eliminates price resistance # Blog Posts The Five StoryBrand Soundbites That Bring You More Clients **Get the right words to earn more —in just 5 minutes.** **In this intimate, private podcast series,** I share all my secrets. You'll learn the **Signature Story-Selling System**™ that's helped hundreds of service providers turn their websites from expensive digital brochures into **client-converting machines**. After 23 years of crafting stories for world-class clients (yes, even Nike, Adidas, and Jeff Bezos!), I discovered something that changed everything: your story isn't just nice to have—it's your most powerful profit tool. **Your story matters. Let's make it unforgettable—and profitable.** *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/copy ### Title: Copy That Sells ### Page ID: 1991015 ### Content: # **Let me write it for you.** ## Do you cringe when someone asks for your website? #### You’ve rewritten it. Edited it. Tweaked it. #### And *still*… the words aren’t working. ## One story, told right, replaces almost every other marketing tactic you've been trying. #### I spent decades working with the world's biggest brands and household names. ## Things are about to get a whole lot easier. ## And you deserve that. ## How to replace all your marketing with a single story. #### *Introducing...* ### 1\. Mine For Gold ### 2\. Refine Your Story ### 3\. Deploy Everywhere ### 4\. Sign More Clients # Your Signature Story is the missing piece that can change everything.  # Use it everywhere to sell for you 24/7 ## This is *not* another diy course or group program. ## It's just you and me, 1 on 1. ## Everything we'll create to turn your story into a client-getting system: ### **StoryBrand Website Messaging** ### **Elevator Pitch One-Liner** ### **Homepage Video Script** ### Signature Process Infographic ### Lead Magnet Strategy ### 30 Days Business Coaching ## Plus, you'll also get: ### **Web Design & Photo Guide** ### Testimonial System ### Social Media Strategy ### Pricing Strategy ### Sales Call Confidence Training ## "This is arguably the best website I've ever seen for a coach or consultant." #### — Donald Miller, Author of Building a StoryBrand #### ?" I just cannot see anybody going to this website and not wanting to hire you. I just can't. It's so good." #### ? "On a scale of one to ten, this website is a 9.5!" ## Your investment pays for itself. #### **Less than 2.5 hours of your time for a complete marketing system.** #### **For most clients, the investment pays for itself within 30 days.** #### STRATEGY  #### CONTENT #### DESIGN #### COACHING ## I hear stuff like this all the time... #### I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! Best money spent. #### I'm closing 95% of my sales calls now that I have clarity. #### I saw a 986% increase in conversions in the first 30 days! #### I'm now charging 6X more for the exact same service. #### I booked my first $15K speaking gig using my new messaging. #### Clients are already sold before I get on the call. #### COMING FALL 2026 ## StoryBrand Your Coaching Business #### 12 Simple Strategies That Make Dream Clients Say "YES" ## The proof is in the results. ## Let's start with the numbers. ## Everyone asks the same question. #### **"Will it actually sound like me?"** ## If you've tried to figure this out on your own... #### **you're not alone.** ## And here's what changes when the story is right. ## And then there's this. #### Still on the fence? ## Here's my promise to you. ### Love your Signature Story Guarantee ### No icky selling tactics. Guaranteed. ### Headache-Free Guarantee ### No Experience Needed Guarantee ## The Wall of ❤️ #### **I easily wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own.** #### I have saved myself so much time, money *and* mental agony #### A comprehensive service at this price point is rare. #### **I have confidence knowing** #### it's done right. What a relief! #### **I made 100K in just 93 days with my Signature Story!** #### **I immediately got 2 new high-ticket clients.** ## Nothing sells like a good story. ## Yours is waiting. ## **FREE VIDEO & TOOLKIT** ## The Five StoryBrand Soundbites That Bring You More Clients ### Write your five soundbites in 10 minutes. #### **Use five simple phrases that sell.** #### **Apply them everywhere to increase revenue.** #### **Explain what you do in seconds.** The most profitable thing in your business is the story you haven't told yet. ★★★★★ **Rated 5.0 on Google by 130 coaches and consultants** **What did I learn working with these companies? The power of Story.** I learned what makes people stop, lean in, and buy. When I left the big brands to do my own thing, I brought everything I knew with me and focused it on the people who needed it most. Coaches and consultants who change lives every day but struggle to explain the value of what they do. I tested the approach on my own business first. Then I couldn't keep it to myself. One story, strategically crafted, that works everywhere your business shows up. One story that turns strangers into clients and makes your business dramatically easier to grow. **Turn your story into the marketing engine that sells for you.** I extract your story from your brain and write it for you. We collaborate until every word feels exactly right. Turn on the client-getting faucet. Leave it running. Designed specifically for coaches, consultants, and service providers who are:  **✓** Deeply competent but frustratingly invisible online. ✓ Mid-career and ready to finally look like the expert they already are.  ✓ Done being the best-kept secret in their industry. **Because you don't need more information. You need someone to do it *with* you.** Built on the principles of the StoryBrand framework, this practical guide shows **coaches, consultants and advisors** how to craft one clear story that attracts the right clients, and turns their marketing into a reliable client-generation system. **If you want more clients, more revenue, and a business that finally feels simple to explain, this book shows you the path forward.** "**I saw a 986% increase in conversions** within 30 days." "**One new client more than covered my investment**. I had 3 client calls booked within 7 days." **"I'm now charging 6X more for the exact same service**. Within just a few weeks my pipeline filled up and my revenue was 40% higher than my previous highest month." "**I'm booked solid for the next 6 months** and already making $100K above my best year ever." "**It was so easy because Kris did the heavy lifting**. And yet I was engaged in just enough to make sure the copy was truly aligned with my voice." **"Kris figured out in one session what no one else could crack in years.** I spent a small fortune trying to get my messaging right with other 'marketing experts'. I wish I had found Kris first. **My messaging went from mismatched plaids & checks to a streamlined look that finally fits.** Now my clients know who I am and what I do. They see why they need me because they're not confused anymore." I worried no one else could capture my voice. **The process brought it to life online in a heartfelt, genuine way.** It was astounding. "**I wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own.** If only I had invested in myself sooner. **Now that I have the right words, I'm way more confident.** I use those words in everything I do." "I read StoryBrand but didn't have the brain space to figure out how to implement it myself. **Kris saved me so much time.**" "Before Kris, I kept second-guessing myself. I was too close to my own work **Kris provided the perspective I needed to communicate clearly**." "The clarity gave me confidence, saved me so much time, and brought me **peace of mind knowing my message is truly resonating with the right people."** "**I immediately got two high-ticket clients** after updating my website." "**I'm closing 95% of my sales calls.** The story helped me get clear in my own mind about what I do. It's boosted my confidence and made me feel like an expert." "**Getting just one new client more than covered my investment.** I have more time because my website does the selling for me." "**My business** **grew to the point where I needed to bring on a partner.** That was my ultimate goal." "**I feel the kind of joy that comes with knowing I'm on the right path**. Kris will change your life. I am not kidding." You will love what we create together. It will sound like you at your most articulate. Aligned with your voice. Resonant with your ideal clients. Ready to work the moment it goes live. When your story is right, you don't have to convince anyone of anything. Right-fit clients just say yes. My process is streamlined, efficient, and dare I say, enjoyable. I'll be with you every step of the way so nothing feels overwhelming or unclear. You don't need to be a writer. You don't need your story figured out. You just need to show up and answer my questions. I'll take it from there. **You've been sitting on the most profitable asset in your business for years.** **Let me help you tell it so the right clients can finally find you.** *For most clients, the investment pays for itself within 30 days.* *A Boutique Design Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Simplify your message so people understand your value in seconds - Turn your website into a tool that converts visitors into discovery calls - Align your website, social media, and sales calls around one clear message - Build a profitable business that grows without starting over every month - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/thankyou ### Title: CTS Thanks ### Page ID: 1994605 ### Content: # Congrats, you're in! # Troubleshooting Welcome to Copy that Sells — Celebrate this investment in Yourself! Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients 1. **Login** 2. **Watch the videos and fill out the intake.** 3. **Share your doc with me** - Check your email to access your *Copy That Sells* log in details. - [**Click Here**](https://offers.reddoordesigns.com/updateinfo/221395/) [to access your account](https://offers.reddoordesigns.com/updateinfo/221395/) - Search for the word "ThriveCart" to find your invoice. - Check your Promotions and Spam folders. - Click on red link at bottom of your invoice. --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand ### Title: StoryBrand ### Page ID: 2000723 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-brandscript ### Title: StoryBrand BrandScript ### Page ID: 2000724 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-guide ### Title: StoryBrand Guide ### Page ID: 2000725 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-marketing ### Title: StoryBrand Marketing ### Page ID: 2022590 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-website ### Title: StoryBrand Website ### Page ID: 2022591 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/web-design ### Title: Web Design ### Page ID: 2022593 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/web-development ### Title: Web Development ### Page ID: 2022594 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/work-with-me ### Title: Work With Me ### Page ID: 2022605 ### Content: # Here are the 3 ways to work with me. ##### Write Compelling Copy in 5 min. Flat ##### StoryBrand Copy That Sells — ##### in 2.5 Hours Flat ##### Double Conversions ##### Work 1:1 with Kris ##### Done in 2.5 Hours ##### High-Converting Sales Page Design ##### ***INCLUDES FAST-TRACK GUARANTEE*** This 5 minute toolkit will show you how to leverage story to get more leads. Stop missing opportunities and start communicating in a clear & compelling way. Apply it to every facet of your business! (*website copy, emails, social posts and more*). Perfect for busy coaches, consultants and experts who want to stop losing sales because of website copy that's not working. We'll use StoryBrand strategy to double your conversions. I believe getting website copy that sells should be quick, easy and fun! We'll create a custom sales page that not only looks great but also converts visitors into paying clients. Our design process is backed by years of experience and data-driven insights, ensuring that every element of your sales page is optimized for maximum conversion. From the copy to the layout and design, we'll work with you every step of the way to ensure your sales page is a powerful tool in your business arsenal. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog-template ### Title: Blog Template ### Page ID: 2023557 ### Content: #### Intro paragraph ## What is StoryBrand? #### **Subhead** # Hey, there! # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! I'm Kris Jones, and I'm so happy we've connected. Most business owners struggle when writing for their own business. My streamlined process gets them copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so they can double revenue and stay in their zone of genius. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/hosting ### Title: Hosting ### Page ID: 2051110 ### Content: # Annual Hosting Fee Below is your annual fee of $300 for the next 12 months of hosting. A hosting company provides a server that your website is stored on. They also provide the backend interface that allows us to easily make updates your website.  ​This button allows you to easily pay via credit card or paypal! *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/discovery-thanks ### Title: Discovery Thanks ### Page ID: 2051271 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/infographic ### Title: Infographic ### Page ID: 2051273 ### Content: # A Confusing Message Caused By the Bottle Effect. # The StoryBrand Framework # How We'll Attract Clients # The Signature Story-Selling System ## 1-Get Clear #### Know what you sell, what it costs, and how to talk about it. ## 2-Get Seen #### Put your message in front of the #### right people and inspire action ## 3-Get Clients #### Turn interest into paying clients #### and strengthen what works. #### Signature Story-Selling System ## $5,497 #### **Signature Story-Selling System** ## $14,997 #### Business Strategy #### Clear Messaging #### Cohesive Brand #### Effective Marketing # The Signature Story-Selling System ## A *Clear* StoryBrand Message ### **Website Messaging** ### **StoryBrand Soundbites** ### **One-Liner** ### **Video Script** ## Plus, a *Client-Getting* Marketing System #### Offering Clarity ### Pricing Strategy ### Email Sequence ### Sales Call Confidence # Return on Investment Calculator ## The Signature Story-Selling System pays for itself. #### **Less than 2.5 hours of your time over a 30-day engagement.** #### Signature Story-Selling System ## $8,500 #### **Signature Story-Selling System** ## $14,997 #### Clear Messaging #### Cohesive Brand #### Effective Marketing #### Business Strategy # Examples ## A Clear StoryBrand Message ### **Website Messaging** ### **StoryBrand Soundbites** ### **One-Liner** ### **Video Script** ## A Cohesive Brand ### Process Infographic ### Brand Photos ### LinkedIn Banner ### Elevate Brand Palette ## A Client-Getting Marketing System ### Lead Magnet Strategy ### Email Sequence ### Social Profiles ### Testimonial System ## A Profitable Business Structure #### Suite of Services ### Pricing Strategy ### Sales Call Confidence ### **Web Design Guidance** ## The Signature StorySelling System Everything you need for a simple and profitable business. "I'm closing 95% of my sales calls using my story." Clients are already sold before I get on the phone with them. EVERYTHING YOU NEED FOR A SIMPLE & PROFITABLE BUSINESS Your story is inside of you. You’re just too close to it to see it clearly. Through a series of targeted questions, we uncover a captivating narrative that will engage your audience. On our 1 hour Co-Creation Call, we’ll pull together your first draft. I’ll teach you the proven StoryBrand framework to ensure we your ideal clients will convert with ease. Fine tune your copy until it feels perfectly aligned with your voice and truly resonates with your ideal clients. Show up for weekly office hours if you need additional support. Your team can effortlessly transfer your high-converting copy to your website, seamlessly blending it with your existing website. My final Design Review ensures your visual story brings to life the written narrative.You’ll get expert feedback on fonts, photos, and colors to create a cohesive experience that builds immediate trust.. You most likely won’t need it but I'm here for you — just for peace of mind. Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - Craft Signature Story - Write Website Messaging - Create PEACE Soundbites - Nail One-Liner + Social Bios - Clarify Offer + Ladder - Price Offers for Profit - Write Video Script - Strategize Lead Magnet - Elevate Photography - Launch Website - Record Guide Video - Build Lead Magnet - Write Your Welcome Emails - Strengthen Your LinkedIn - Build Your Social Strategy - Create Your Podcast Strategy - Build Backend Selling Slides - Strengthen Your Sales Calls - Strategize Fast Action Incentive - Systemize Sales Call Follow-Up - Learn Video Testimonial System - Gather Testimonials That Sell - Record Video Testimonial - Review + Refine Your Strategy - Struggling to explain what you do - Losing clients to confusion - Wasting time on ineffective marketing - Creating endless social content that doesn’t convert - Changing strategies every few months - Second-guessing your messaging - Dreading selling on sales calls - Knowing and showing your value with confidence - Proudly sending people to a website that sells for you - Turning more leads into clients - Building a consistent, reliable income - Focusing on what you love in your business - Using one powerful story everywhere - Enjoying the freedom of a system that works 24/7 - [Wireframe](https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/15IGc-x_6p0tT2E-u_ok2nK1QZ8Yjb5_IAZtBWbXXKnM/edit) - [Website](https://andreagiles.com/get-your-life-back/) - [Wireframe](https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/13bE9L53ezSiW0gmNqjJXnM8A_-u9eWC5fo_OI8Y_HFY/edit) - [Website](https://mikkigardner.mykajabi.com/) - [Wireframe](https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1DphI6xfpf2vffF2PxLi4SPS2wk9ElCGlYEZAp-Ye4aA/edit) - [Website](https://www.changemakercoach.co/)[](https://jennaboshart.com/) - [Wireframe](https://docs.google.com/drawings/u/0/d/1amX98oPd52tmsbSS_oNRGxwDDyX5-Op5n-cnR4QnDos/edit?usp=drive_fs) - [Website](https://jennaboshart.com/) - [Wireframe](https://docs.google.com/drawings/u/0/d/1B27qo2xMlXRLr17mvw-RvObnaOz4P5-Qph4QEnLFp6E/edit?usp=drive_fs) - [Website](https://www.jennlathrop.com/) - [Wireframe](https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1r8k7smcew9Saiqj_vkiprNy5wL0kEu2rxiWBFEW9XmM/edit) - [Website](https://www.hollymariehaynes.com/) - [Wireframe](https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1mU2PIWZT_4N5b-1rhct_wpyNr8On-KTgmDm3SYSwUQg/edit) - [Website](https://reddoorwireframe.brizy.site/home-copy) - [Wireframe](https://docs.google.com/drawings/u/0/d/1HBPIy7DkCmaPeV_zqizoAY2I6Ncr0ndOuyO3nrxcERo/edit?usp=drive_fs) - [Website](https://www.lather.com/) - [Wireframe](https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1w0eXIud_umhA6VmWsXWaNxP3ed3WfkW9eAf4kUDqfp4/edit?usp=drive_web&ouid=110927902816108218052) - [Website](https://fotablyphotobooth.com/) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/referrals ### Title: Referrals ### Page ID: 2051313 ### Content: # Referral Program I'm excited to announce our Referral Program to everyone who might benefit If you refer Copy That Sells or Red Door Designs website services to anyone who might benefit from our support, and if the referred person ends up signing with us, you will get a $300 reward as a Thank You for sending new clients our way! To be eligible for referral benefits, simply let me know when you’ve sent someone my way or have them mention your name upon inquiry/Discovery Call. Our Referral Program is available to past & current clients and collaborators and to anyone who aligns with our values and the work that we do. If you want to continue working with us once your current package is over we would LOVE to give you a 5 % discount off your next Entire Package price. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/why-we-click ### Title: Why We Click Download ### Page ID: 2076997 ### Content: # Congrats! Your About to Completely Up-Level Your Website With Simple Strategies that Work. # Step 1 # Step 2 Review this pdf and implement 3 small changes to your site. Schedule a free Clarity Call to make sure it's done right. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/unlockfreetraining ### Title: Brand Your Way to Freedom Webinar ### Page ID: 2080083 ### Content: # I'm so glad you're here! Press play to learn how to: # Step 1 # Step 2 **Create wealth with ease Spend time on what matters Make your greatest impact** Watch the training and change the way you do business forever so you can experience more freedom. Schedule a free Clarity Call to see how I can best help you implement the 5 shifts with ease. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/guesting ### Title: Podcast Guesting ### Page ID: 2080605 ### Content: # See how Kris can provide incredible value to your podcast audience. # Featured On # Most business owners miss out on sales because their website copy isn’t working. Kris helps them craft copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best.  # Speaking Topics # Headshots # Links Kris is the Founder of Red Door Designs and a StoryBrand Guide. Over the past 2 decades, she's worked with some high-profile clients, including Nike and Jeff Bezos, but her favorite people to work with are small business owners. Kris was mentored by the author of Building a StoryBrand and has been able to help her clients achieve incredible results, including: Kris believes that Story is the most effective way to grow your business. And the process of creating website copy should be quick and easy! The right words have the power to help you amplify profits, enjoy more freedom and make a bigger impact. A lot of business owners feel paralyzed when trying to write their own website copy. It's hard to know what to say — especially when you're too close to your own business. Your listeners will walk away with a step-by-step guide on creating a magnetic sales copy that tells a compelling story, creates authentic connections and converts potential clients into paying customers. **How to write a compelling website copy that sells for you in 2.5 hours flat.** A lot of business owners feel paralyzed when trying to write their own website copy. It's hard to know what to say — especially when you're too close to your own business. Your listeners will walk away with a step-by-step guide on creating a magnetic sales copy that tells a compelling story, creates authentic connections and converts potential clients into paying customers **Why hiring a copywriter doesn’t work and what to do instead?** Kris would love to share why hiring a copywriter isn't typically the best way to maximize your results, and why a Collaborative Copywriting Process is. Your audience will walk away with a solid understanding of her signature method of writing sales copy that explodes revenue in 2.5 hours flat. Her tangible tips on how to find a copywriter that will capture your voice & increase profits. **How to find a copywriter that can capture your voice and ensure a return on your investment?** Kris would love to share why simply hiring a copywriter - is not going to maximize your results, but actually, collaboration with a copywriter is the secret way to solve this problem. Your audience will walk away with a solid understanding of her signature method of writing sales copy that explodes the revenue in 2.5 hours flat & her tangible tips on how to look for the right copywriter that will capture your voice & blow up your revenue! **How to attract more clients through effective storytelling?** Most business owners know "telling a story" on their website is important, but they don't know where to begin. Kris will share her shortcut to the StoryBrand framework that focuses on 3 ways to get a website that sells FOR YOU, so you can focus on the work you love and stop wasting time on sales calls! Your listeners will gain a solid understanding of the fundamentals of storytelling so they can leverage the power of the story in all of their marketing materials to increase revenue and simplify their business. **5 Mistakes most business owners make when it comes to website copy and how to fix them** Copywriting is where most business owners get stuck. They procrastinate. They dread it. And it can feel like a never-ending burden. Kris will help your listeners understand the reason why writing your own copy can feel so darn challenging -- because once you understand the why, you can begin to fix it. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Why writing your own copy is so hard - Why it’s not in your best interest to write your own copy - Why outsourcing your copy to save you time, actually ends up taking more time. - Why it's impossible to outsource your own voice. - How a collaborative approach to copywriting get’s you unstuck, captures your voice and creates effective copy that converts. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-a-better-brand-experience-can-lead-to-bigger-profits ### Title: How a better brand experience can lead to bigger profits ### Page ID: 2169863 ### Content: #### I’ve talked before about how overwhelming & stressful a brand redesign project can be. It’s why so many companies put it on the back burner until problems start to crop up. ## ​They were starting to feel the pressure of needing better results ## ​What they really needed was a design partner to help them navigate the process ## ​​What they got was way more than they had expected ## ​​It all starts with letting go of the reigns ## (a *little* bit) # Hey, there! # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! # How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy How a better brand experience can lead to bigger profits That’s where my client Leslie, CEO of Leadout, a leadership training company, was when she came to Red Door Designs for help. The family-owned company had setup their digital home in the late 1990s, when the internet of things was new and competition was much slimmer. The website, which was created in-house, hadn’t evolved much over the years. So as the Leadout brand grew, and web standards became more sophisticated, the website became less and less viable for their needs and the demands of their customers.  Finally, after a painfully long, grueling search for a design agency that could handle their multi-layered project, a referral from a friend led Leslie to us.  Leslie wanted to create a cleaner, more modern web presence for Leadout. But she had concerns about whether an agency could deliver a solution that would also stay true to their legacy and values. So our approach to creating a new design solution was to, first, learn about their brand’s history and the direction they wanted to take the company in next. That allowed us to craft an experience that would not only capture their values, but also support their priorities and goals. ​In the first month after relaunching their site, Leadout had a 15 percent increase in sales. By the end of that year their sales were up 25 percent over the previous year. Since it was their only investment in growing their brand that year — it was clear that their exponential results were directly attributed to the redesign. ​​While the end-product led to break-through profits for Leadout, it was their commitment to being forward-thinking about building a better experience for their customers that really made the difference. Once they let go of trying to create what they wanted on their own, and trusted our team to understand and deliver what they were looking for, they were able to lean back, stay high-level and enjoy the process. I'm Kris Jones, and I'm so happy we've connected. Most business owners struggle when writing for their own business. My streamlined process gets them copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so they can double revenue and stay in their zone of genius. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. **Kris:** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast. I am beyond delighted today to have my dear friend, my mentor, my coach, the brilliant Neil Williams. She has been instrumental in my entrepreneurial journey in helping me simplify my business and really, uh, target my focus. So I'm really doing the work that I'm put on the planet to do, that I am, um, Using my greatest gifts with every one of my clients. And before we hopped on the call, um, Neil and I were talking about how \[00:01:00\] she has helped me in so many ways. So I'm going to fill you in on that, uh, today. And really, we're going to talk about how to simplify our lives as business owners, how to do, how to set ourself up with tools and strategies and mindsets that really allow us to do more of the work that we love and less of the marketing and the minutiae and the to do's that come with being a business owner. So um, Neil, welcome. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. It's so wonderful to be here. I love chatting with you and that was quite the introduction. Hopefully the show lives up to that. **Kris:** I know it will. I know it will. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. **Neill:** So I'm a productivity coach, mindset coach. So I help, um, high achieving people in corporate or our high achieving entrepreneurs, who I'm sure there are many listening to the show really simplify work less. But achieve \[00:02:00\] their goals, what they want. I really don't, I, this is kind of like the thing that I did in the corporate world that I took into starting my business was proving to myself that the amount of time that I spent doing something did not. It doesn't mean success or failure. It really is, it's a different equation. **Kris:** What's what's the situation that comes to mind when you think about that? Like when you had that aha, like, Oh my gosh, I hardly spent any time on this and I'm getting much greater results than when I used to spend a lot more time on it. What? Give me, give me an example. **Neill:** Well, it started with when I was in the corporate worlds. Um, and this has been 15 years ago. Yeah, my son is 15. So about 15 years ago, had a baby. I was, um, partner track in a firm. I was an actuary. If you don't know what that is, you can Google it. It's a numbers job. Nobody knows what it is, but in any case, I was working 60 plus hours per week. That wasn't the way that I wanted to, um, have my life structured in terms of having the time that I wanted to be with my son as a mom. So I started really diving into this whole \[00:03:00\] productivity time management thing, and I was like, if I could just work like 30 hours per week, I feel like I'd have like the right balance. And so the way that I approached it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to work less. It was, I'm going to still produce the same amount, but I'm going to figure out how to do it in less time. And I slowly over a little bit of time, probably took me a year, maybe two years max, I scaled all the way back to 30 hours. And I was, but I was producing the same amount of, not more as anyone else in the company. And so I was like, wow, this is really powerful. I feel like other people should know this. **Neill:** so then I started my own business on the side to help other people do similar things. Yes. **Kris:** Got it. Okay. And so did anybody in that you are working with know that you are dramatically like being more efficient and working less? Okay. **Neill:** Yeah. It wasn't well respected. Um, I guess well received in the world that I was in because. Working overtime was like this badge \[00:04:00\] of honor. It was like, you're at the top of the food chain if you have the highest number of overtime hours. And for a long time, I bought into that. They, at our team meetings, they would put up a chart and it would show everybody's overtime hours for the like year to date. And I was always like, number one, number two. And I was like, so damn proud of that. **Kris:** it's so telling of corporate culture that there's this like a wall of like accolades based on amount of overtime hours and not at all related to productivity, right? **Neill:** It was so silly when I, once I like saw it, I was like, this is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. It was like, we were actually demotivating any productive efforts because You're, you're gonna, if overtime is the answer is the goal, then you're going to inflate everything that you do and make it take longer, which is the opposite of efficiency. So it didn't make sense to me. So, but that's the way that culture was. That's it. And it's fine. It can stay that way. I was not willing to stay there \[00:05:00\] and continue to be involved in that machine. **Kris:** Right. Right. It's so amazing that you had that awareness. And I love, I didn't realize that the timing of all this happened around the time that you had your son. Yeah. Because the way that you helped me is when I had my son and I was feeling that same sense of like overwhelm, um, working more is going to get me more results. And you totally shifted that perspective for me. But the gift of having a child I think is so huge in for women helping us and men too, I'm sure. But like helping us really. Realize, like, we actually don't have the capacity for operating in this way anymore, and nor do we want to. Right. **Neill:** And it's not necessary. That's the thing that I think we think that, um, we have to in order to achieve whatever success metric that we're going for. \[00:06:00\] And that, that alone changed my life because I realized. The hard work plus amount of time does not, is not the only formula for success. It might work for some people, but it's not the only one. I don't think it works for most working moms. Most working moms don't want to be on that kind of trajectory. **Neill:** nearly impossible to sustain for long periods of time. **Kris:** Truly, truly. So what did you, what were some of the initial things that you, that, that started working for you then that you're still implementing now? Yeah. **Neill:** So I worked on my brain. Um, so we can talk about a couple of mindset things, which was the most powerful piece because I didn't know that I can't work on my brain or think differently about things. That's the reason I got certified as a coach and then certified as a master coach and went down that whole route. But there were also tactical things that I did as well. So, I mean, I started really, my tendency is once I'm interested in something is I just \[00:07:00\] go research the heck out of it. Like I consume everything I can about it. I try to educate myself and then I start applying the things that I learned. So there was this one principle that told me that. We as humans have this tendency to expand any activity to fill the amount of time that we give it. And I was like, wait a minute, if that's true, then I can just set the time. And then I can figure out how to get the thing done in the amount of time that I want to spend on it. That was like such a huge shift. If it felt like. Um, really revelatory, even though it's not a new idea. Um, so I started simply like putting things on my calendar in time blocks and not just like work on client, whatever it was, get X done. And so that every time block had something where I was accomplishing something. **Neill:** that felt great because I didn't, I no longer was I leaving my day feeling like. I sat here for 12 hours and I don't even know what I did. It was like, oh, I got this done and this done and this done, this done, this done. I could literally see the work accomplished. So that was like \[00:08:00\] the biggest, like probably the most powerful first tactical strategy that I used. Um, and then I would say the other thing that I learned is that. Whatever we decide is true. That's what we're going to build evidence for. We're going to have the experience of that. So in my mind, the thought that ran rampant over and over was, there's not enough time. I can't get it all done. All those flavors of thoughts. And I was like, okay. So I'm actually creating that experience for myself because I'm believing that to be true. But what if I just tried to believe something else is true? Like **Neill:** always get everything done. I have plenty of time. So I started just practicing those ideas in my mind. And that is the experience that I started creating. **Neill:** So I would say those two are both very, very powerful and kind of set me on the trajectory towards, you know, shrinking back my work week, um, by 50%. **Kris:** Incredible. Incredible. And then at what point, you know, you, you started kind of a side gig with coaching. At what point did you decide, just decide, \[00:09:00\] I'm, I'm taking the leap. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fully self employed. **Neill:** Well, I'm pretty, um, I'm not really great at taking risks. So I had my side gig for quite some time. I was doing both, but the way that I did my side gig was I had scaled my work week back to 30 hours. And I was like, okay, I'm going to take 10 hours for my business. I'm going to build my business in 10 hours a week. So that's what I did for probably three years. And then it was to the point where. There was enough, um, kind of disagreement between myself and the partners, um, in this firm that I gave my partnership and we decided to part ways. The biggest of those was they decided that I couldn't do both, that I, it was a conflict of interest for me to do both. And so I was like, Hey, Neil, this is a. This is a turning point. Are you going to vote for yourself or do the thing that feels safe? And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try doing my own thing and just see if I can make it work. And so that was, like I said, about three years in. **Kris:** And you are, you are working kind of for, for your coaching business, you are working. \[00:10:00\] 10 hours a week. And that reminds me of kind of the theme of the way you approach. Yeah, entrepreneurship, right? And that I'm sure that that has, um, gone up and down over the years. But what's been your journey? Because I think you're back to 10 hours per week. **Neill:** that that's like my maximum workweek at this point. Perfect. Yeah, so I left the corporate world and then I scaled up my work week to about 20, maybe sometimes 25 hours per week, just as a solopreneur, Um, this last year over a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of health stuff going on. And so I started ratcheting that back last year. I was maybe about 15 hours per week this year. I'm somewhere between seven and 10 hours per week. And it's done very strategically. Um, and with intention behind it, because this is a year that I want to just like take care of. All the rest of my health things, and I have a lot of other things going on. I'm, I'm \[00:11:00\] partially homeschooling my son and you know, there's just other things that I want to do in my life, so it feels like the right fit for right now. **Kris:** Do you ever find yourself kind of dipping your toe into wanting to do a little bit more, or are you just so skilled at this point that you don't have that urge? **Neill:** I really don't have that urge anymore. In fact, the thought that goes through my brain is like, I wonder how I could do this in five hours or I wonder how I like it's just like it's a game that I've played with my brain for so many years like literally almost 15 years at this point **Neill:** just like it's like a little challenge that I give to myself so yeah I don't really maybe there will be a point where I want to scale it up. And for me, that would just mean taking on more clients, but I feel really content where I'm at right now. **Kris:** That's so lovely. So tell me, um, share with me how you work with your clients. Like somebody will come to you. What are they struggling with? And then how do you actually work with them over time? So right now I am only working with folks one on one, um, because that's what feels \[00:12:00\] really good to me. And we work together for a minimum of six months. Better a year. Um, typically someone will come to me like I onboarded a client just a few weeks ago, and this person has an online business. And wants to scale back his work week from like 40 plus hours down to 20. I'm like, cool, let's do that. So that will like, and just set an initial goal. And then we work together every week for that period of time. And it's partially mindset coaching. It's partially tools and tactics and strategies for how to shrink things back. He'll be at that 20 to 25 hours. And in fact, he's, he's at least 50 percent of the way now he's one of those, like you, you tell me what to do. I'm, I'm a really good implementer. I'll just do it. And so that's amazing. Those are the best. I know. That's super fun for a coach because you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like this instant gratification of so many like little wins that they're getting so quickly. Um, so yeah, so that's what it looks like. I, \[00:13:00\] I coach on everything. It's not just time. It's interesting because people think it's time management and productivity, but it's a whole host of other things. There's so many psychological factors that go into it. A lot of, um, nervous system work, mindset work, cognitive behavior therapy, all kinds of disciplines I bring into the fold. **Kris:** There's so many layers there, right? Like there's, there's so much, um, underneath the busyness, right? That, that's like, it could be trauma related or could be just sitting with difficult pain that you don't want to feel. Um, and so you kind of have to, Be kind of a partially, uh, like a healer. Like you're not doing the healing for them, but you're like really facilitating them to go underneath why they're creating such busyness in their life. **Neill:** It really is deeper. I think people mistakenly think that productivity and time management is kind of \[00:14:00\] like a surface level thing, but if you really want to have a beautiful relationship with time, it requires that deeper work. And as a coach, I really. feel like I, I am in some sense of healer, but more so in the sense of, I facilitate my clients coming to understand themselves better. And what that means is understanding why they do what they do, because it always makes sense. Once we figure out the why behind it. And once you have that, it just releases all kinds of shame and judgment and there's so much clarity and calm that comes through that process. **Kris:** What do you find this guy was a model client, but what do you find when clients have resistance or they're having difficulty implementing or getting over those hurdles? What are they? What are they struggling with the most and how do you hold their hand through? the difficulty? **Neill:** Well, when, when that happens, which is more often the case, there is deeper work that has to be done. So it's some sort of low lying belief system that they picked up. A lot of the stuff \[00:15:00\] that we discover in coaching, it has happened during childhood or some really pivotal experiences. And part of my job is to help my clients connect the dots to how that. It's creating this pattern of behavior or this level of resistance or what's going on. So that has to do with like nervous system work. It has to do with understanding, you know, I brought in, um, some of my background in economics, um, because that's a lot of what describes and explains our subconscious thinking, which is what drives like 95 percent of what we do. And so it's a matter of. Kind of peeling back those layers and figuring out why you're resisting or why you're struggling with making this new habit. There's always a reason. You always make **Kris:** sense. Always. Yep, completely. Oh, that's such incredible work. And you've, you've recently written a book. Is that right? **Neill:** Yes. Tell us about it. Yeah, so it's called How to Thrive on a 10 Hour Workweek. \[00:16:00\] And it really, even though it has, you know, like it has the nice little markety title. It really is about examining our relationship with time. That's really what I hope people are taking away from it is a way to approach and, um, really create a beautiful relationship with time because there's so much stress and anxiety and worry about this thing we have made up called time. And I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we can feel really balanced and at ease. Um, and feel like we're accomplishing what we want, especially the working moms. I really wrote it for them because they have so many things on their plate and there's so much societal pressure for what they accomplish. **Kris:** That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience about? Something that you want them, like a takeaway that you want them to have, whether it be about time or entrepreneurship, what would you like to share? **Neill:** Yeah, I think, um, the biggest \[00:17:00\] thing that I would say is really examine your belief systems around time. If, if time is something you want to work with, which I am biased, of course, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor that literally can change your life. And if that's something that you want to tackle and you want to do it on your own, the best place to start is to really find what you believe about time. And our belief systems come from four different places. They come from what happened in our childhood, what our teachers, our parents, those influential adults taught us about time, what we took away from their models. Um, it comes from our peers. Um, colleagues, um, coaches, therapists, doctors, those influential things. And in this day and age for you and I, Kris, our children, especially social media influence. I mean, what you see on Instagram or Tik TOK or YouTube, YouTube's my son's thing. Um, it literally is shaping the belief systems of the people who are consuming it. So not to, I'm not like fear mongering. I'm just \[00:18:00\] saying that is the way that our nervous system, um, creates belief systems is the inputs that we receive. **Neill:** third thing. And then the fourth one is something that is only available to humans, which is our choice. What we decide to be true. You decide that you don't have enough time. That's what you will experience. If you decide that, of course you have enough time. That's what you will experience. And my favorite belief, this is something that, um, my assistant Kelly and I both geek out on, but. I mean, we message each other with ways that this has actually happened in our lives. We both believe that we create time and that's a really empowering way to think about it versus being at, um, you know, being an antagonist with time. **Kris:** Right. You're not a victim to time going by too quickly or not having enough. You're really, you're really the guide and time. Time is the hero and you are the guide. That's right. I **Neill:** love how \[00:19:00\] you just took it back to StoryBrand. That was brilliant. **Kris:** So before we wrap up, I do want to share just my personal experience of getting to work with you because you have been such an instrumental guide in my journey as an entrepreneur. And, um, for my audience, I just want to share Neil really helped me shape the offer that the way that I work with my clients. And she encouraged me and gave me clarity and The reality is this idea that as entrepreneurs were stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the, of the bottle, no one's immune to that. Even me, I, I provide such clarity for my clients, but I run my own business and I'm very close to it. And sometimes I need a brilliant coach and outside perspective to read the label of my bottle. And Neil has been that person for me. Many times now and in such profound ways \[00:20:00\] and she helped me and encouraged me to kick off my current offer, um, which was originally called copy that sells and it's evolved over time into the signature story selling system and it's, it's been such a gift to simplify the way I help my clients in one deep, profound way. I don't. I don't work with my clients in, in any other way and narrowing my offerings to one offering was the biggest way that I was able to kind of take the reins of my business and really have boundaries around my client work, my time involved. And it was like, the words don't really capture the, uh, the, way that it helped me and the way that it changed my life. And then a couple of years later, I, I've been working one on one with clients and I was loving it. And I was getting a lot of advice \[00:21:00\] from coaches and other. Other leaders, uh, other entrepreneur leaders and everyone was like, scale, scale, scale, group program, group program. You've got to do this. Like you've proof of concept one, one on one. Now let's expand it and grow it and multiply your impact and multiply your revenue. Honestly, I love working one on one with my clients, and that's what energizes me, but I thought, okay, the way to reach more people is to I created a group program and so of course I reached out to Neal and of course she was willing to have a power call with me and I ran it by her, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to scale. I'm going to do this group program. And I said, but here's the deal. I, I'm really resistant to this idea. Like I love my one on one work and I, I don't know if doing this work in a group format is going to be as effective. I, I don't know if this is like a \[00:22:00\] mindset thing that I need to overcome or, or what it is. And, but I need you to help me overcome that barrier and move forward with this group program. And she said these words, which we'll always remember. She said. Be careful what you build because you don't want to build it and then look back and wish you hadn't and And I realized in that moment that she was gently guiding me to listen to my own heart and listen to my own knowing and my own guidance and she just Brought me back to that and validated what was really true and right for me, and I have never looked back I was like, oh, I'm back on my path. I'm I know what I'm doing. I mean, I'm I I'm doubling down on one on one work it's the most fulfilling and it's it gets the greatest results for my clients and And here I am still loving my work still feeling super aligned with my purpose and \[00:23:00\] And being abundantly a compensated for the work as well, which is such a gift as well. So I just want to say thank you for the ways that you personally helped me. And it is such an honor to get to have you here today to bring your brilliance. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. I also hope everyone who heard what Kris just said realized that the reason that that worked is that Kris just went back and listened to herself, which is what a lot of coaching is, is bringing you back to yourself and listening to yourself and letting all of what everyone else is saying, even though it's so well meaning and well intended, We have to listen to what's true to us, and I really believe that's why you're so successful and why you're helping so many people is because you are staying true to you. **Kris:** Yeah, and so are you. Thank you. All right, well, Nia, where can my audience find you? **Neill:** So they could visit my website at, uh, www. neilwilliams. com. They \[00:24:00\] could go listen to a podcast if they're interested in doing some time management, productivity kind of mindset work. We have, I think we're at almost 300 episodes. So lots of things to choose from it's called success genius. Or if you just want to reach out with a question, you can email me at neil at neilwilliams. com. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/3-ways-a-design-partner-can-help-you-grow-your-small-business ### Title: 3 Ways a Design Partner Can Help You Grow Your Small Business ### Page ID: 2169891 ### Content: #### **It can be tempting, as a small business owner, to take the do-it-yourself route when it comes to branding.** ## ​1. You don’t already have a clearly defined brand style ###### **​How a design partner helps:**  ## 2\. You’re not sure if your design choices are making the right statement ## ​3. You’re spending more time on design tasks than on money-making task ## ​For heaven’s sake, ditch the DIY # Hey, there! # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! # How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy 3 Ways a Design Partner Can Help You Grow Your Small Business After all, there are countless tools out there, many of which are free (or dirt cheap), to help non-creatives develop slick graphics to make their brands stand out. ​Contrary to what DIY design sites would have you believe, though, effective design is not as simple as drag-and-drop. Don’t get me wrong, these programs have their merits. With just a few clicks, you can: ​However, none of these cool features amount to a hill of beans for you if: ​The key to making your brand credible and memorable is consistency. But if you’re always guessing at how to combine colors, fonts, shapes and imagery to create your visuals, you’re probably not putting out a consistent image. ​A design partner asks the right questions to help you develop or refine your brand style. They can then replicate that style in various formats so your brand presence is cohesive and your visual communication is consistent. Cohesiveness builds recognition. Consistency builds trust. Customers who trust you will buy from you. If you worry your designs aren’t professional-looking enough, or you think they don’t resonate with your intended audience, you’re probably right. Unfortunately, if your designs don’t resonate, they don’t work. A design partner understands your brand, as well as your audience. They can translate your message into beautifully crafted visuals that stand out and trigger the desired response from viewers. ​It’s easy to underestimate how much time and effort goes into designing marketing content and materials—we’re talking hours, days and even weeks of work. You’re probably spending late nights, early mornings and lunch breaks designing social media graphics, report covers, presentations and so on. But those are precious hours you’re *not spending* on essential, money-making tasks—like following up with leads, sending out invoices or closing a new deal. A design partner knows your vision and can skillfully turnaround design tasks in less time. So you can focus on more important things, like writing your content or delivering a knock-out presentation. The next time you find yourself drudging through another design project, ask yourself this one simple question: “*Will doing this myself get me the results I want?*” If your answer isn’t a resounding yes, then do yourself a favor and [phone in some back-up](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/work-with-me). I'm Kris Jones, and I'm so happy we've connected. Most business owners struggle when writing for their own business. My streamlined process gets them copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so they can double revenue and stay in their zone of genius. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. **Kris:** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast. I am beyond delighted today to have my dear friend, my mentor, my coach, the brilliant Neil Williams. She has been instrumental in my entrepreneurial journey in helping me simplify my business and really, uh, target my focus. So I'm really doing the work that I'm put on the planet to do, that I am, um, Using my greatest gifts with every one of my clients. And before we hopped on the call, um, Neil and I were talking about how \[00:01:00\] she has helped me in so many ways. So I'm going to fill you in on that, uh, today. And really, we're going to talk about how to simplify our lives as business owners, how to do, how to set ourself up with tools and strategies and mindsets that really allow us to do more of the work that we love and less of the marketing and the minutiae and the to do's that come with being a business owner. So um, Neil, welcome. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. It's so wonderful to be here. I love chatting with you and that was quite the introduction. Hopefully the show lives up to that. **Kris:** I know it will. I know it will. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. **Neill:** So I'm a productivity coach, mindset coach. So I help, um, high achieving people in corporate or our high achieving entrepreneurs, who I'm sure there are many listening to the show really simplify work less. But achieve \[00:02:00\] their goals, what they want. I really don't, I, this is kind of like the thing that I did in the corporate world that I took into starting my business was proving to myself that the amount of time that I spent doing something did not. It doesn't mean success or failure. It really is, it's a different equation. **Kris:** What's what's the situation that comes to mind when you think about that? Like when you had that aha, like, Oh my gosh, I hardly spent any time on this and I'm getting much greater results than when I used to spend a lot more time on it. What? Give me, give me an example. **Neill:** Well, it started with when I was in the corporate worlds. Um, and this has been 15 years ago. Yeah, my son is 15. So about 15 years ago, had a baby. I was, um, partner track in a firm. I was an actuary. If you don't know what that is, you can Google it. It's a numbers job. Nobody knows what it is, but in any case, I was working 60 plus hours per week. That wasn't the way that I wanted to, um, have my life structured in terms of having the time that I wanted to be with my son as a mom. So I started really diving into this whole \[00:03:00\] productivity time management thing, and I was like, if I could just work like 30 hours per week, I feel like I'd have like the right balance. And so the way that I approached it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to work less. It was, I'm going to still produce the same amount, but I'm going to figure out how to do it in less time. And I slowly over a little bit of time, probably took me a year, maybe two years max, I scaled all the way back to 30 hours. And I was, but I was producing the same amount of, not more as anyone else in the company. And so I was like, wow, this is really powerful. I feel like other people should know this. **Neill:** so then I started my own business on the side to help other people do similar things. Yes. **Kris:** Got it. Okay. And so did anybody in that you are working with know that you are dramatically like being more efficient and working less? Okay. **Neill:** Yeah. It wasn't well respected. Um, I guess well received in the world that I was in because. Working overtime was like this badge \[00:04:00\] of honor. It was like, you're at the top of the food chain if you have the highest number of overtime hours. And for a long time, I bought into that. They, at our team meetings, they would put up a chart and it would show everybody's overtime hours for the like year to date. And I was always like, number one, number two. And I was like, so damn proud of that. **Kris:** it's so telling of corporate culture that there's this like a wall of like accolades based on amount of overtime hours and not at all related to productivity, right? **Neill:** It was so silly when I, once I like saw it, I was like, this is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. It was like, we were actually demotivating any productive efforts because You're, you're gonna, if overtime is the answer is the goal, then you're going to inflate everything that you do and make it take longer, which is the opposite of efficiency. So it didn't make sense to me. So, but that's the way that culture was. That's it. And it's fine. It can stay that way. I was not willing to stay there \[00:05:00\] and continue to be involved in that machine. **Kris:** Right. Right. It's so amazing that you had that awareness. And I love, I didn't realize that the timing of all this happened around the time that you had your son. Yeah. Because the way that you helped me is when I had my son and I was feeling that same sense of like overwhelm, um, working more is going to get me more results. And you totally shifted that perspective for me. But the gift of having a child I think is so huge in for women helping us and men too, I'm sure. But like helping us really. Realize, like, we actually don't have the capacity for operating in this way anymore, and nor do we want to. Right. **Neill:** And it's not necessary. That's the thing that I think we think that, um, we have to in order to achieve whatever success metric that we're going for. \[00:06:00\] And that, that alone changed my life because I realized. The hard work plus amount of time does not, is not the only formula for success. It might work for some people, but it's not the only one. I don't think it works for most working moms. Most working moms don't want to be on that kind of trajectory. **Neill:** nearly impossible to sustain for long periods of time. **Kris:** Truly, truly. So what did you, what were some of the initial things that you, that, that started working for you then that you're still implementing now? Yeah. **Neill:** So I worked on my brain. Um, so we can talk about a couple of mindset things, which was the most powerful piece because I didn't know that I can't work on my brain or think differently about things. That's the reason I got certified as a coach and then certified as a master coach and went down that whole route. But there were also tactical things that I did as well. So, I mean, I started really, my tendency is once I'm interested in something is I just \[00:07:00\] go research the heck out of it. Like I consume everything I can about it. I try to educate myself and then I start applying the things that I learned. So there was this one principle that told me that. We as humans have this tendency to expand any activity to fill the amount of time that we give it. And I was like, wait a minute, if that's true, then I can just set the time. And then I can figure out how to get the thing done in the amount of time that I want to spend on it. That was like such a huge shift. If it felt like. Um, really revelatory, even though it's not a new idea. Um, so I started simply like putting things on my calendar in time blocks and not just like work on client, whatever it was, get X done. And so that every time block had something where I was accomplishing something. **Neill:** that felt great because I didn't, I no longer was I leaving my day feeling like. I sat here for 12 hours and I don't even know what I did. It was like, oh, I got this done and this done and this done, this done, this done. I could literally see the work accomplished. So that was like \[00:08:00\] the biggest, like probably the most powerful first tactical strategy that I used. Um, and then I would say the other thing that I learned is that. Whatever we decide is true. That's what we're going to build evidence for. We're going to have the experience of that. So in my mind, the thought that ran rampant over and over was, there's not enough time. I can't get it all done. All those flavors of thoughts. And I was like, okay. So I'm actually creating that experience for myself because I'm believing that to be true. But what if I just tried to believe something else is true? Like **Neill:** always get everything done. I have plenty of time. So I started just practicing those ideas in my mind. And that is the experience that I started creating. **Neill:** So I would say those two are both very, very powerful and kind of set me on the trajectory towards, you know, shrinking back my work week, um, by 50%. **Kris:** Incredible. Incredible. And then at what point, you know, you, you started kind of a side gig with coaching. At what point did you decide, just decide, \[00:09:00\] I'm, I'm taking the leap. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fully self employed. **Neill:** Well, I'm pretty, um, I'm not really great at taking risks. So I had my side gig for quite some time. I was doing both, but the way that I did my side gig was I had scaled my work week back to 30 hours. And I was like, okay, I'm going to take 10 hours for my business. I'm going to build my business in 10 hours a week. So that's what I did for probably three years. And then it was to the point where. There was enough, um, kind of disagreement between myself and the partners, um, in this firm that I gave my partnership and we decided to part ways. The biggest of those was they decided that I couldn't do both, that I, it was a conflict of interest for me to do both. And so I was like, Hey, Neil, this is a. This is a turning point. Are you going to vote for yourself or do the thing that feels safe? And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try doing my own thing and just see if I can make it work. And so that was, like I said, about three years in. **Kris:** And you are, you are working kind of for, for your coaching business, you are working. \[00:10:00\] 10 hours a week. And that reminds me of kind of the theme of the way you approach. Yeah, entrepreneurship, right? And that I'm sure that that has, um, gone up and down over the years. But what's been your journey? Because I think you're back to 10 hours per week. **Neill:** that that's like my maximum workweek at this point. Perfect. Yeah, so I left the corporate world and then I scaled up my work week to about 20, maybe sometimes 25 hours per week, just as a solopreneur, Um, this last year over a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of health stuff going on. And so I started ratcheting that back last year. I was maybe about 15 hours per week this year. I'm somewhere between seven and 10 hours per week. And it's done very strategically. Um, and with intention behind it, because this is a year that I want to just like take care of. All the rest of my health things, and I have a lot of other things going on. I'm, I'm \[00:11:00\] partially homeschooling my son and you know, there's just other things that I want to do in my life, so it feels like the right fit for right now. **Kris:** Do you ever find yourself kind of dipping your toe into wanting to do a little bit more, or are you just so skilled at this point that you don't have that urge? **Neill:** I really don't have that urge anymore. In fact, the thought that goes through my brain is like, I wonder how I could do this in five hours or I wonder how I like it's just like it's a game that I've played with my brain for so many years like literally almost 15 years at this point **Neill:** just like it's like a little challenge that I give to myself so yeah I don't really maybe there will be a point where I want to scale it up. And for me, that would just mean taking on more clients, but I feel really content where I'm at right now. **Kris:** That's so lovely. So tell me, um, share with me how you work with your clients. Like somebody will come to you. What are they struggling with? And then how do you actually work with them over time? So right now I am only working with folks one on one, um, because that's what feels \[00:12:00\] really good to me. And we work together for a minimum of six months. Better a year. Um, typically someone will come to me like I onboarded a client just a few weeks ago, and this person has an online business. And wants to scale back his work week from like 40 plus hours down to 20. I'm like, cool, let's do that. So that will like, and just set an initial goal. And then we work together every week for that period of time. And it's partially mindset coaching. It's partially tools and tactics and strategies for how to shrink things back. He'll be at that 20 to 25 hours. And in fact, he's, he's at least 50 percent of the way now he's one of those, like you, you tell me what to do. I'm, I'm a really good implementer. I'll just do it. And so that's amazing. Those are the best. I know. That's super fun for a coach because you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like this instant gratification of so many like little wins that they're getting so quickly. Um, so yeah, so that's what it looks like. I, \[00:13:00\] I coach on everything. It's not just time. It's interesting because people think it's time management and productivity, but it's a whole host of other things. There's so many psychological factors that go into it. A lot of, um, nervous system work, mindset work, cognitive behavior therapy, all kinds of disciplines I bring into the fold. **Kris:** There's so many layers there, right? Like there's, there's so much, um, underneath the busyness, right? That, that's like, it could be trauma related or could be just sitting with difficult pain that you don't want to feel. Um, and so you kind of have to, Be kind of a partially, uh, like a healer. Like you're not doing the healing for them, but you're like really facilitating them to go underneath why they're creating such busyness in their life. **Neill:** It really is deeper. I think people mistakenly think that productivity and time management is kind of \[00:14:00\] like a surface level thing, but if you really want to have a beautiful relationship with time, it requires that deeper work. And as a coach, I really. feel like I, I am in some sense of healer, but more so in the sense of, I facilitate my clients coming to understand themselves better. And what that means is understanding why they do what they do, because it always makes sense. Once we figure out the why behind it. And once you have that, it just releases all kinds of shame and judgment and there's so much clarity and calm that comes through that process. **Kris:** What do you find this guy was a model client, but what do you find when clients have resistance or they're having difficulty implementing or getting over those hurdles? What are they? What are they struggling with the most and how do you hold their hand through? the difficulty? **Neill:** Well, when, when that happens, which is more often the case, there is deeper work that has to be done. So it's some sort of low lying belief system that they picked up. A lot of the stuff \[00:15:00\] that we discover in coaching, it has happened during childhood or some really pivotal experiences. And part of my job is to help my clients connect the dots to how that. It's creating this pattern of behavior or this level of resistance or what's going on. So that has to do with like nervous system work. It has to do with understanding, you know, I brought in, um, some of my background in economics, um, because that's a lot of what describes and explains our subconscious thinking, which is what drives like 95 percent of what we do. And so it's a matter of. Kind of peeling back those layers and figuring out why you're resisting or why you're struggling with making this new habit. There's always a reason. You always make **Kris:** sense. Always. Yep, completely. Oh, that's such incredible work. And you've, you've recently written a book. Is that right? **Neill:** Yes. Tell us about it. Yeah, so it's called How to Thrive on a 10 Hour Workweek. \[00:16:00\] And it really, even though it has, you know, like it has the nice little markety title. It really is about examining our relationship with time. That's really what I hope people are taking away from it is a way to approach and, um, really create a beautiful relationship with time because there's so much stress and anxiety and worry about this thing we have made up called time. And I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we can feel really balanced and at ease. Um, and feel like we're accomplishing what we want, especially the working moms. I really wrote it for them because they have so many things on their plate and there's so much societal pressure for what they accomplish. **Kris:** That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience about? Something that you want them, like a takeaway that you want them to have, whether it be about time or entrepreneurship, what would you like to share? **Neill:** Yeah, I think, um, the biggest \[00:17:00\] thing that I would say is really examine your belief systems around time. If, if time is something you want to work with, which I am biased, of course, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor that literally can change your life. And if that's something that you want to tackle and you want to do it on your own, the best place to start is to really find what you believe about time. And our belief systems come from four different places. They come from what happened in our childhood, what our teachers, our parents, those influential adults taught us about time, what we took away from their models. Um, it comes from our peers. Um, colleagues, um, coaches, therapists, doctors, those influential things. And in this day and age for you and I, Kris, our children, especially social media influence. I mean, what you see on Instagram or Tik TOK or YouTube, YouTube's my son's thing. Um, it literally is shaping the belief systems of the people who are consuming it. So not to, I'm not like fear mongering. I'm just \[00:18:00\] saying that is the way that our nervous system, um, creates belief systems is the inputs that we receive. **Neill:** third thing. And then the fourth one is something that is only available to humans, which is our choice. What we decide to be true. You decide that you don't have enough time. That's what you will experience. If you decide that, of course you have enough time. That's what you will experience. And my favorite belief, this is something that, um, my assistant Kelly and I both geek out on, but. I mean, we message each other with ways that this has actually happened in our lives. We both believe that we create time and that's a really empowering way to think about it versus being at, um, you know, being an antagonist with time. **Kris:** Right. You're not a victim to time going by too quickly or not having enough. You're really, you're really the guide and time. Time is the hero and you are the guide. That's right. I **Neill:** love how \[00:19:00\] you just took it back to StoryBrand. That was brilliant. **Kris:** So before we wrap up, I do want to share just my personal experience of getting to work with you because you have been such an instrumental guide in my journey as an entrepreneur. And, um, for my audience, I just want to share Neil really helped me shape the offer that the way that I work with my clients. And she encouraged me and gave me clarity and The reality is this idea that as entrepreneurs were stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the, of the bottle, no one's immune to that. Even me, I, I provide such clarity for my clients, but I run my own business and I'm very close to it. And sometimes I need a brilliant coach and outside perspective to read the label of my bottle. And Neil has been that person for me. Many times now and in such profound ways \[00:20:00\] and she helped me and encouraged me to kick off my current offer, um, which was originally called copy that sells and it's evolved over time into the signature story selling system and it's, it's been such a gift to simplify the way I help my clients in one deep, profound way. I don't. I don't work with my clients in, in any other way and narrowing my offerings to one offering was the biggest way that I was able to kind of take the reins of my business and really have boundaries around my client work, my time involved. And it was like, the words don't really capture the, uh, the, way that it helped me and the way that it changed my life. And then a couple of years later, I, I've been working one on one with clients and I was loving it. And I was getting a lot of advice \[00:21:00\] from coaches and other. Other leaders, uh, other entrepreneur leaders and everyone was like, scale, scale, scale, group program, group program. You've got to do this. Like you've proof of concept one, one on one. Now let's expand it and grow it and multiply your impact and multiply your revenue. Honestly, I love working one on one with my clients, and that's what energizes me, but I thought, okay, the way to reach more people is to I created a group program and so of course I reached out to Neal and of course she was willing to have a power call with me and I ran it by her, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to scale. I'm going to do this group program. And I said, but here's the deal. I, I'm really resistant to this idea. Like I love my one on one work and I, I don't know if doing this work in a group format is going to be as effective. I, I don't know if this is like a \[00:22:00\] mindset thing that I need to overcome or, or what it is. And, but I need you to help me overcome that barrier and move forward with this group program. And she said these words, which we'll always remember. She said. Be careful what you build because you don't want to build it and then look back and wish you hadn't and And I realized in that moment that she was gently guiding me to listen to my own heart and listen to my own knowing and my own guidance and she just Brought me back to that and validated what was really true and right for me, and I have never looked back I was like, oh, I'm back on my path. I'm I know what I'm doing. I mean, I'm I I'm doubling down on one on one work it's the most fulfilling and it's it gets the greatest results for my clients and And here I am still loving my work still feeling super aligned with my purpose and \[00:23:00\] And being abundantly a compensated for the work as well, which is such a gift as well. So I just want to say thank you for the ways that you personally helped me. And it is such an honor to get to have you here today to bring your brilliance. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. I also hope everyone who heard what Kris just said realized that the reason that that worked is that Kris just went back and listened to herself, which is what a lot of coaching is, is bringing you back to yourself and listening to yourself and letting all of what everyone else is saying, even though it's so well meaning and well intended, We have to listen to what's true to us, and I really believe that's why you're so successful and why you're helping so many people is because you are staying true to you. **Kris:** Yeah, and so are you. Thank you. All right, well, Nia, where can my audience find you? **Neill:** So they could visit my website at, uh, www. neilwilliams. com. They \[00:24:00\] could go listen to a podcast if they're interested in doing some time management, productivity kind of mindset work. We have, I think we're at almost 300 episodes. So lots of things to choose from it's called success genius. Or if you just want to reach out with a question, you can email me at neil at neilwilliams. com. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - *Build a slide presentation* - *Create social media graphics (who doesn’t love a good quote graphic, right?)* - *Make quick edits to customize stock images* - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/the-5-best-ways-to-share-your-brand-story-through-video ### Title: The 5 Best Ways to Share Your Brand Story Through Video ### Page ID: 2169894 ### Content: ## "Viewers who watch product videos are at least 64% more likely to make a purchase." ## ***\-******Kissmetrics, 2012*** ## ​1. The company introduction ## ​2. The real life example ## ​3. The client interview ## ​4. The behind-the-scenes look ## ​5. The team introduction # Hey, there! # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! # How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy The 5 Best Ways to Share Your Brand Story Through Video I came across an article recently on how valuable product videos are for increasing buyer conversion rates. I wasn’t too surprised to learn that videos make up nearly three-quarters of the top 100 search results—or this little nugget: ​Video is a powerful marketing tool and there’s no question that you should be using it for your business. If you’re a service-based company, though, product videos might not be as feasible. Here are five other effective kinds of video that you can use to enhance your brand’s message and attract more clients: ​One element of building a successful brand is creating opportunities to inspire your audience. A company introduction video is a compelling, creative way to do just that. By highlighting your core values, mission, and unique point of view, you can inspire viewers to take a closer look at what you have to offer. ​Seeing a product video helps buyers feel confident that what they see is what they’ll get. A *real life example* video has a similar impact and is more useful for service-based businesses. It gives prospective clients a glimpse into what their experience will be like to work with you, while also answering many of the questions they might have. ​A raving testimonial is one of the most powerful ways to highlight your experience and prove the awesome results you deliver. A client interview video is much more compelling, because it lets potential clients *see* and *hear* what it’s like to work with you from people who already have (and hopefully loved the experience). ​Part of what makes a brand memorable is knowing the process behind what makes it work. Getting a glimpse of the behind-the-scenes of your brand makes people feel like an “insider”. You’re no longer just a company selling them a product or service. You’re a small team of people working together to deliver something of value for them. In addition, they’re no longer just a customer or client. They’re one of the lucky people who get to be the essential final piece of your process. ​In the age of conscious consumerism, the best way to set your brand apart is to show the brilliant personalities behind it. Highlighting your team adds a more approachable, human element to your brand. When people can associate faces with names and titles, your brand becomes for familiar to them and they’re more inclined to trust you. I'm Kris Jones, and I'm so happy we've connected. Most business owners struggle when writing for their own business. My streamlined process gets them copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so they can double revenue and stay in their zone of genius. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. **Kris:** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast. I am beyond delighted today to have my dear friend, my mentor, my coach, the brilliant Neil Williams. She has been instrumental in my entrepreneurial journey in helping me simplify my business and really, uh, target my focus. So I'm really doing the work that I'm put on the planet to do, that I am, um, Using my greatest gifts with every one of my clients. And before we hopped on the call, um, Neil and I were talking about how \[00:01:00\] she has helped me in so many ways. So I'm going to fill you in on that, uh, today. And really, we're going to talk about how to simplify our lives as business owners, how to do, how to set ourself up with tools and strategies and mindsets that really allow us to do more of the work that we love and less of the marketing and the minutiae and the to do's that come with being a business owner. So um, Neil, welcome. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. It's so wonderful to be here. I love chatting with you and that was quite the introduction. Hopefully the show lives up to that. **Kris:** I know it will. I know it will. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. **Neill:** So I'm a productivity coach, mindset coach. So I help, um, high achieving people in corporate or our high achieving entrepreneurs, who I'm sure there are many listening to the show really simplify work less. But achieve \[00:02:00\] their goals, what they want. I really don't, I, this is kind of like the thing that I did in the corporate world that I took into starting my business was proving to myself that the amount of time that I spent doing something did not. It doesn't mean success or failure. It really is, it's a different equation. **Kris:** What's what's the situation that comes to mind when you think about that? Like when you had that aha, like, Oh my gosh, I hardly spent any time on this and I'm getting much greater results than when I used to spend a lot more time on it. What? Give me, give me an example. **Neill:** Well, it started with when I was in the corporate worlds. Um, and this has been 15 years ago. Yeah, my son is 15. So about 15 years ago, had a baby. I was, um, partner track in a firm. I was an actuary. If you don't know what that is, you can Google it. It's a numbers job. Nobody knows what it is, but in any case, I was working 60 plus hours per week. That wasn't the way that I wanted to, um, have my life structured in terms of having the time that I wanted to be with my son as a mom. So I started really diving into this whole \[00:03:00\] productivity time management thing, and I was like, if I could just work like 30 hours per week, I feel like I'd have like the right balance. And so the way that I approached it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to work less. It was, I'm going to still produce the same amount, but I'm going to figure out how to do it in less time. And I slowly over a little bit of time, probably took me a year, maybe two years max, I scaled all the way back to 30 hours. And I was, but I was producing the same amount of, not more as anyone else in the company. And so I was like, wow, this is really powerful. I feel like other people should know this. **Neill:** so then I started my own business on the side to help other people do similar things. Yes. **Kris:** Got it. Okay. And so did anybody in that you are working with know that you are dramatically like being more efficient and working less? Okay. **Neill:** Yeah. It wasn't well respected. Um, I guess well received in the world that I was in because. Working overtime was like this badge \[00:04:00\] of honor. It was like, you're at the top of the food chain if you have the highest number of overtime hours. And for a long time, I bought into that. They, at our team meetings, they would put up a chart and it would show everybody's overtime hours for the like year to date. And I was always like, number one, number two. And I was like, so damn proud of that. **Kris:** it's so telling of corporate culture that there's this like a wall of like accolades based on amount of overtime hours and not at all related to productivity, right? **Neill:** It was so silly when I, once I like saw it, I was like, this is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. It was like, we were actually demotivating any productive efforts because You're, you're gonna, if overtime is the answer is the goal, then you're going to inflate everything that you do and make it take longer, which is the opposite of efficiency. So it didn't make sense to me. So, but that's the way that culture was. That's it. And it's fine. It can stay that way. I was not willing to stay there \[00:05:00\] and continue to be involved in that machine. **Kris:** Right. Right. It's so amazing that you had that awareness. And I love, I didn't realize that the timing of all this happened around the time that you had your son. Yeah. Because the way that you helped me is when I had my son and I was feeling that same sense of like overwhelm, um, working more is going to get me more results. And you totally shifted that perspective for me. But the gift of having a child I think is so huge in for women helping us and men too, I'm sure. But like helping us really. Realize, like, we actually don't have the capacity for operating in this way anymore, and nor do we want to. Right. **Neill:** And it's not necessary. That's the thing that I think we think that, um, we have to in order to achieve whatever success metric that we're going for. \[00:06:00\] And that, that alone changed my life because I realized. The hard work plus amount of time does not, is not the only formula for success. It might work for some people, but it's not the only one. I don't think it works for most working moms. Most working moms don't want to be on that kind of trajectory. **Neill:** nearly impossible to sustain for long periods of time. **Kris:** Truly, truly. So what did you, what were some of the initial things that you, that, that started working for you then that you're still implementing now? Yeah. **Neill:** So I worked on my brain. Um, so we can talk about a couple of mindset things, which was the most powerful piece because I didn't know that I can't work on my brain or think differently about things. That's the reason I got certified as a coach and then certified as a master coach and went down that whole route. But there were also tactical things that I did as well. So, I mean, I started really, my tendency is once I'm interested in something is I just \[00:07:00\] go research the heck out of it. Like I consume everything I can about it. I try to educate myself and then I start applying the things that I learned. So there was this one principle that told me that. We as humans have this tendency to expand any activity to fill the amount of time that we give it. And I was like, wait a minute, if that's true, then I can just set the time. And then I can figure out how to get the thing done in the amount of time that I want to spend on it. That was like such a huge shift. If it felt like. Um, really revelatory, even though it's not a new idea. Um, so I started simply like putting things on my calendar in time blocks and not just like work on client, whatever it was, get X done. And so that every time block had something where I was accomplishing something. **Neill:** that felt great because I didn't, I no longer was I leaving my day feeling like. I sat here for 12 hours and I don't even know what I did. It was like, oh, I got this done and this done and this done, this done, this done. I could literally see the work accomplished. So that was like \[00:08:00\] the biggest, like probably the most powerful first tactical strategy that I used. Um, and then I would say the other thing that I learned is that. Whatever we decide is true. That's what we're going to build evidence for. We're going to have the experience of that. So in my mind, the thought that ran rampant over and over was, there's not enough time. I can't get it all done. All those flavors of thoughts. And I was like, okay. So I'm actually creating that experience for myself because I'm believing that to be true. But what if I just tried to believe something else is true? Like **Neill:** always get everything done. I have plenty of time. So I started just practicing those ideas in my mind. And that is the experience that I started creating. **Neill:** So I would say those two are both very, very powerful and kind of set me on the trajectory towards, you know, shrinking back my work week, um, by 50%. **Kris:** Incredible. Incredible. And then at what point, you know, you, you started kind of a side gig with coaching. At what point did you decide, just decide, \[00:09:00\] I'm, I'm taking the leap. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fully self employed. **Neill:** Well, I'm pretty, um, I'm not really great at taking risks. So I had my side gig for quite some time. I was doing both, but the way that I did my side gig was I had scaled my work week back to 30 hours. And I was like, okay, I'm going to take 10 hours for my business. I'm going to build my business in 10 hours a week. So that's what I did for probably three years. And then it was to the point where. There was enough, um, kind of disagreement between myself and the partners, um, in this firm that I gave my partnership and we decided to part ways. The biggest of those was they decided that I couldn't do both, that I, it was a conflict of interest for me to do both. And so I was like, Hey, Neil, this is a. This is a turning point. Are you going to vote for yourself or do the thing that feels safe? And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try doing my own thing and just see if I can make it work. And so that was, like I said, about three years in. **Kris:** And you are, you are working kind of for, for your coaching business, you are working. \[00:10:00\] 10 hours a week. And that reminds me of kind of the theme of the way you approach. Yeah, entrepreneurship, right? And that I'm sure that that has, um, gone up and down over the years. But what's been your journey? Because I think you're back to 10 hours per week. **Neill:** that that's like my maximum workweek at this point. Perfect. Yeah, so I left the corporate world and then I scaled up my work week to about 20, maybe sometimes 25 hours per week, just as a solopreneur, Um, this last year over a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of health stuff going on. And so I started ratcheting that back last year. I was maybe about 15 hours per week this year. I'm somewhere between seven and 10 hours per week. And it's done very strategically. Um, and with intention behind it, because this is a year that I want to just like take care of. All the rest of my health things, and I have a lot of other things going on. I'm, I'm \[00:11:00\] partially homeschooling my son and you know, there's just other things that I want to do in my life, so it feels like the right fit for right now. **Kris:** Do you ever find yourself kind of dipping your toe into wanting to do a little bit more, or are you just so skilled at this point that you don't have that urge? **Neill:** I really don't have that urge anymore. In fact, the thought that goes through my brain is like, I wonder how I could do this in five hours or I wonder how I like it's just like it's a game that I've played with my brain for so many years like literally almost 15 years at this point **Neill:** just like it's like a little challenge that I give to myself so yeah I don't really maybe there will be a point where I want to scale it up. And for me, that would just mean taking on more clients, but I feel really content where I'm at right now. **Kris:** That's so lovely. So tell me, um, share with me how you work with your clients. Like somebody will come to you. What are they struggling with? And then how do you actually work with them over time? So right now I am only working with folks one on one, um, because that's what feels \[00:12:00\] really good to me. And we work together for a minimum of six months. Better a year. Um, typically someone will come to me like I onboarded a client just a few weeks ago, and this person has an online business. And wants to scale back his work week from like 40 plus hours down to 20. I'm like, cool, let's do that. So that will like, and just set an initial goal. And then we work together every week for that period of time. And it's partially mindset coaching. It's partially tools and tactics and strategies for how to shrink things back. He'll be at that 20 to 25 hours. And in fact, he's, he's at least 50 percent of the way now he's one of those, like you, you tell me what to do. I'm, I'm a really good implementer. I'll just do it. And so that's amazing. Those are the best. I know. That's super fun for a coach because you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like this instant gratification of so many like little wins that they're getting so quickly. Um, so yeah, so that's what it looks like. I, \[00:13:00\] I coach on everything. It's not just time. It's interesting because people think it's time management and productivity, but it's a whole host of other things. There's so many psychological factors that go into it. A lot of, um, nervous system work, mindset work, cognitive behavior therapy, all kinds of disciplines I bring into the fold. **Kris:** There's so many layers there, right? Like there's, there's so much, um, underneath the busyness, right? That, that's like, it could be trauma related or could be just sitting with difficult pain that you don't want to feel. Um, and so you kind of have to, Be kind of a partially, uh, like a healer. Like you're not doing the healing for them, but you're like really facilitating them to go underneath why they're creating such busyness in their life. **Neill:** It really is deeper. I think people mistakenly think that productivity and time management is kind of \[00:14:00\] like a surface level thing, but if you really want to have a beautiful relationship with time, it requires that deeper work. And as a coach, I really. feel like I, I am in some sense of healer, but more so in the sense of, I facilitate my clients coming to understand themselves better. And what that means is understanding why they do what they do, because it always makes sense. Once we figure out the why behind it. And once you have that, it just releases all kinds of shame and judgment and there's so much clarity and calm that comes through that process. **Kris:** What do you find this guy was a model client, but what do you find when clients have resistance or they're having difficulty implementing or getting over those hurdles? What are they? What are they struggling with the most and how do you hold their hand through? the difficulty? **Neill:** Well, when, when that happens, which is more often the case, there is deeper work that has to be done. So it's some sort of low lying belief system that they picked up. A lot of the stuff \[00:15:00\] that we discover in coaching, it has happened during childhood or some really pivotal experiences. And part of my job is to help my clients connect the dots to how that. It's creating this pattern of behavior or this level of resistance or what's going on. So that has to do with like nervous system work. It has to do with understanding, you know, I brought in, um, some of my background in economics, um, because that's a lot of what describes and explains our subconscious thinking, which is what drives like 95 percent of what we do. And so it's a matter of. Kind of peeling back those layers and figuring out why you're resisting or why you're struggling with making this new habit. There's always a reason. You always make **Kris:** sense. Always. Yep, completely. Oh, that's such incredible work. And you've, you've recently written a book. Is that right? **Neill:** Yes. Tell us about it. Yeah, so it's called How to Thrive on a 10 Hour Workweek. \[00:16:00\] And it really, even though it has, you know, like it has the nice little markety title. It really is about examining our relationship with time. That's really what I hope people are taking away from it is a way to approach and, um, really create a beautiful relationship with time because there's so much stress and anxiety and worry about this thing we have made up called time. And I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we can feel really balanced and at ease. Um, and feel like we're accomplishing what we want, especially the working moms. I really wrote it for them because they have so many things on their plate and there's so much societal pressure for what they accomplish. **Kris:** That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience about? Something that you want them, like a takeaway that you want them to have, whether it be about time or entrepreneurship, what would you like to share? **Neill:** Yeah, I think, um, the biggest \[00:17:00\] thing that I would say is really examine your belief systems around time. If, if time is something you want to work with, which I am biased, of course, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor that literally can change your life. And if that's something that you want to tackle and you want to do it on your own, the best place to start is to really find what you believe about time. And our belief systems come from four different places. They come from what happened in our childhood, what our teachers, our parents, those influential adults taught us about time, what we took away from their models. Um, it comes from our peers. Um, colleagues, um, coaches, therapists, doctors, those influential things. And in this day and age for you and I, Kris, our children, especially social media influence. I mean, what you see on Instagram or Tik TOK or YouTube, YouTube's my son's thing. Um, it literally is shaping the belief systems of the people who are consuming it. So not to, I'm not like fear mongering. I'm just \[00:18:00\] saying that is the way that our nervous system, um, creates belief systems is the inputs that we receive. **Neill:** third thing. And then the fourth one is something that is only available to humans, which is our choice. What we decide to be true. You decide that you don't have enough time. That's what you will experience. If you decide that, of course you have enough time. That's what you will experience. And my favorite belief, this is something that, um, my assistant Kelly and I both geek out on, but. I mean, we message each other with ways that this has actually happened in our lives. We both believe that we create time and that's a really empowering way to think about it versus being at, um, you know, being an antagonist with time. **Kris:** Right. You're not a victim to time going by too quickly or not having enough. You're really, you're really the guide and time. Time is the hero and you are the guide. That's right. I **Neill:** love how \[00:19:00\] you just took it back to StoryBrand. That was brilliant. **Kris:** So before we wrap up, I do want to share just my personal experience of getting to work with you because you have been such an instrumental guide in my journey as an entrepreneur. And, um, for my audience, I just want to share Neil really helped me shape the offer that the way that I work with my clients. And she encouraged me and gave me clarity and The reality is this idea that as entrepreneurs were stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the, of the bottle, no one's immune to that. Even me, I, I provide such clarity for my clients, but I run my own business and I'm very close to it. And sometimes I need a brilliant coach and outside perspective to read the label of my bottle. And Neil has been that person for me. Many times now and in such profound ways \[00:20:00\] and she helped me and encouraged me to kick off my current offer, um, which was originally called copy that sells and it's evolved over time into the signature story selling system and it's, it's been such a gift to simplify the way I help my clients in one deep, profound way. I don't. I don't work with my clients in, in any other way and narrowing my offerings to one offering was the biggest way that I was able to kind of take the reins of my business and really have boundaries around my client work, my time involved. And it was like, the words don't really capture the, uh, the, way that it helped me and the way that it changed my life. And then a couple of years later, I, I've been working one on one with clients and I was loving it. And I was getting a lot of advice \[00:21:00\] from coaches and other. Other leaders, uh, other entrepreneur leaders and everyone was like, scale, scale, scale, group program, group program. You've got to do this. Like you've proof of concept one, one on one. Now let's expand it and grow it and multiply your impact and multiply your revenue. Honestly, I love working one on one with my clients, and that's what energizes me, but I thought, okay, the way to reach more people is to I created a group program and so of course I reached out to Neal and of course she was willing to have a power call with me and I ran it by her, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to scale. I'm going to do this group program. And I said, but here's the deal. I, I'm really resistant to this idea. Like I love my one on one work and I, I don't know if doing this work in a group format is going to be as effective. I, I don't know if this is like a \[00:22:00\] mindset thing that I need to overcome or, or what it is. And, but I need you to help me overcome that barrier and move forward with this group program. And she said these words, which we'll always remember. She said. Be careful what you build because you don't want to build it and then look back and wish you hadn't and And I realized in that moment that she was gently guiding me to listen to my own heart and listen to my own knowing and my own guidance and she just Brought me back to that and validated what was really true and right for me, and I have never looked back I was like, oh, I'm back on my path. I'm I know what I'm doing. I mean, I'm I I'm doubling down on one on one work it's the most fulfilling and it's it gets the greatest results for my clients and And here I am still loving my work still feeling super aligned with my purpose and \[00:23:00\] And being abundantly a compensated for the work as well, which is such a gift as well. So I just want to say thank you for the ways that you personally helped me. And it is such an honor to get to have you here today to bring your brilliance. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. I also hope everyone who heard what Kris just said realized that the reason that that worked is that Kris just went back and listened to herself, which is what a lot of coaching is, is bringing you back to yourself and listening to yourself and letting all of what everyone else is saying, even though it's so well meaning and well intended, We have to listen to what's true to us, and I really believe that's why you're so successful and why you're helping so many people is because you are staying true to you. **Kris:** Yeah, and so are you. Thank you. All right, well, Nia, where can my audience find you? **Neill:** So they could visit my website at, uh, www. neilwilliams. com. They \[00:24:00\] could go listen to a podcast if they're interested in doing some time management, productivity kind of mindset work. We have, I think we're at almost 300 episodes. So lots of things to choose from it's called success genius. Or if you just want to reach out with a question, you can email me at neil at neilwilliams. com. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/cts-nw-mastermind ### Title: Copy That Sells NW MasterMind ### Page ID: 2206094 ### Content: # Welcome to Sales Page Copy That Sells # *Exclusively for Neill William's Amazing MasterMind Students* # Here's how it works Make smart copy decisions that guarantee a return on your marketing dollars. Have sales page copy that sells for you 24/7 so you can stay in your zone of genius. Collaborate with an industry pro so you know it’s done right. **Watch the video and fill out the google doc while you watch.** [**Schedule a call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/30-cts) **with me to craft your sales page copy together.** Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/vodcast ### Title: Get Free Coaching ### Page ID: 2357582 ### Content: # Apply For Free Clarity Coaching #### Thank you! **With my brain on your business, you can stop spinning your wheels.** **KNOW YOUR WEBSITE IS SET UP TO SELL WITH A CLEAR MESSAGE** Feature your business on my Podcast! Together we'll hop on Zoom for 30 minutes and **craft a clear message that compels ideal clients to work with you**. Then we'll look at your website and I'll give you 3 simple copy and design tweaks that will **ensure you start getting a steady stream of new clients asap.** *All sessions are recorded and may be featured on my YouTube channel.* *Once you click "Apply Now" below, you'll be shown your prep work and scheduling instructions.* *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/paypal ### Title: PayPal ### Page ID: 2388878 ### Content: # Thank you for your prompt payment *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/audit ### Title: Audit ### Page ID: 2444801 ### Content: # StoryBrand Website Audit Find out exactly why your website or sales page isn’t getting you leads and how to fix it. Within a week I'll send you'll receive a loom video audit of your site. Once you implement the changes I suggest, you'll be telling a powerful story that will attract and convert your ideal clients with ease. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/3-storybrand-brandscript-examples-and-how-to-diy ### Title: 3 StoryBrand BrandScript Examples and How To DIY ### Page ID: 3026433 ### Content: ## Ready to Improve Your Marketing Materials with the StoryBrand Framework? ## What is the StoryBrand Framework and What is a BrandScript? ## The 7 Parts of the StoryBrand Framework ## 3 StoryBrand BrandScript Examples ## StoryBrand BrandScript Example 1: Coca Cola ## StoryBrand BrandScript Example 2: Nike ## StoryBrand BrandScript Example 3: Samsung ## 10 Steps to Create Your Own BrandScript Using the StoryBrand Framework ## Benefits of Having a BrandScript in your Marketing Materials ## How Red Door Designs Can Help You ## StoryBrand Website Examples # Hey, there! # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! # How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy In today's crowded marketplace, it can be challenging to make your brand stand out. That's where StoryBrand comes in. StoryBrand is a marketing framework that helps businesses clarify their core message, and connect with their customers in a more powerful way. At the heart of the StoryBrand framework is the BrandScript, a seven-part framework that helps businesses create a compelling brand message that resonates with their target audience. In this blog post, we'll introduce you to the StoryBrand Framework, including the BrandScript. We'll also share three examples of successful BrandScripts from Coca Cola, Nike, and Samsung. At the end, we'll give you a step-by-step guide to creating your own BrandScript. Are you ready to experience the benefits of having a clear brand message? Here at Red Door Designs we're a StoryBrand certified agency that can help you create a powerful BrandScript, clear messaging and a powerful website that converts to improve your marketing results. StoryBrand is a marketing framework developed by Donald Miller that helps businesses clarify their message and connect with their customers. The StoryBrand framework is based on the idea that every great story has a hero, a problem, and a guide. The hero is the customer, the customer's problem is the challenge they face, and the guide is the business that can help them overcome that challenge. The StoryBrand Framework makes your Brand and your Message Come Alive The BrandScript is a seven-part framework within the StoryBrand framework that helps businesses create a compelling brand message that resonates with their target audience. Now that we understand what StoryBrand and BrandScript are, let's look at three examples of successful BrandScripts from Coca Cola, Nike, and Samsung. Coca Cola is the guide that brings refreshment to hard-working people (the hero) who need a pick-me-up (the problem). Hard-working, thirsty people who want to feel refreshed and energized. They're exhausted from their busy day and need a pick-me-up that will keep them going. Coca-Cola is the refreshing guide that will help them feel rejuvenated and ready to tackle anything. Our plan is to provide them with a delicious, ice-cold Coca-Cola that will quench their thirst and give them the energy they need to keep going. We encourage them to grab a Coca-Cola right now and experience the refreshing taste that will keep them going. Just like millions of people around the world, our satisfied customers testify to the refreshing and energizing power of Coca-Cola. It's a classic, time-tested beverage that people have loved for over a century. We want our customers to picture themselves feeling refreshed, energized, and ready to take on the world after enjoying a cold, delicious Coca-Cola. Nike is the guide that brings high-quality athletic gear and support to athletes & fitness enthusiasts (the hero) who are facing physical & mental challenges to meet their goals (the problem). Athletes and fitness enthusiasts who want to push their limits and achieve their goals. They face physical and mental challenges that can hold them back from achieving their goals. Nike is the motivational style guide, that will help them overcome their challenges and achieve greatness. Our plan is to provide them with high-quality athletic gear, expert training advice, and inspirational content that will keep them motivated and on track. We encourage them to lace up their Nikes and start their journey to greatness today. Just like some of the world's top athletes, our satisfied customers have achieved amazing things with Nike's help. From winning championships to breaking records, Nike helps people achieve greatness every day. We want our customers to picture themselves breaking through their limits and achieving their wildest dreams with Nike by their side. Samsung is the guide who brings cutting-edge devices to people who want to stay connected (the hero) in a complex technology landscape (the problem). People who want to stay connected and simplify their lives with technology. They face a complex and ever-changing technology landscape that can be difficult to navigate. Samsung is the trusted guide that can help them stay connected and simplify their lives with the latest technology. Our plan is to provide them with cutting-edge devices and services that seamlessly integrate into their lives and make everything easier. We encourage them to experience the Samsung difference and upgrade their technology today. Just like millions of people around the world, our satisfied customers have improved their lives with Samsung's technology. From staying connected with loved ones to running their businesses, Samsung helps people simplify their lives and achieve their goals. We want our customers to picture themselves enjoying a simpler, more connected life with Samsung's help. Now that you've seen some examples of successful BrandScripts, you may be wondering how to create your own. Here's a step-by-step guide to creating a powerful BrandScript: Who are you trying to reach, and what are their pain points and desires? It's important to have a clear understanding of your target audience before you start crafting your BrandScript. This could involve conducting market research to gather insights into potential customers, their needs, interests, and behaviors. You can use tools like surveys, focus groups, and customer interviews to gather data on your audience. Once you have a good understanding of your target market and your customer's problems, you can create buyer personas to represent your ideal customers. These personas should include information about their demographics, psychographics, pain points, and desires. This will help you tailor your BrandScript to resonate with your target audience and address their specific needs. **Step 2:** **Identify your brand's unique selling proposition.** What sets your brand apart from the competition, and what problem does it solve for your target audience? Identifying your brand's unique selling proposition (USP) is key to creating a powerful BrandScript. Your USP sets your brand apart from competitors and communicates the unique value your brand provides to your audience. One way to identify your USP is to research your competitors and analyze their strengths and weaknesses. Consider what problem your product or service solves for your target audience and how your brand's unique features and benefits address those needs. Then, incorporate your USP into your BrandScript to differentiate your brand from the competition. Who is your target audience, and what do they want to achieve? Creating a character for your target audience can help you bring your BrandScript to life in a way that resonates with your audience. Think of your BrandScript as a story, with your character as the protagonist. Your character should be relatable, empathetic, and embody the aspirations and motivations of your target audience.Your character should have a clear goal or desire that drives their actions and shapes their personality. For example, if your target audience is young professionals who value work-life balance, your character could be a driven, ambitious individual who is passionate about their career but also wants to save time to enjoy their personal life. They may have hobbies or interests that they enjoy outside of work, and may struggle to balance their work and personal priorities. By creating a relatable character, you can bring your BrandScript to life in a way that resonates with your audience. Use your character to illustrate the pain points and desires of your target audience, and show how your brand can help them achieve their goals. This can help you connect with your audience on a deeper level and build stronger relationships with your prospective customers too. What is the challenge that your target audience faces, and how does it hold them back? Identifying the problem your target audience faces is a critical component of your BrandScript. The problem should be a central theme that your character must overcome in order to achieve their goal. There are two aspects to the problem: the internal problem and the external problem. The external problem that your audience faces may be a lack of time, resources, or expertise. The internal problem they face might be self doubt, fear of failure or lack of clarity. By identifying the problem, you can position your brand as the solution and show how your product or service can help your audience overcome their challenges and achieve their desired outcomes. How can your brand help your target audience overcome their problem and achieve their goals? Positioning your brand as the guide means positioning yourself as the authority figure who can help your target audience achieve their goals. To do this effectively, you should empathize with your audience's struggles and show that you understand their pain points. By connecting with your audience on an emotional level, you can build trust and credibility, making it more likely that they will choose your brand over your competitors. Additionally, offering guidance, support, and expert advice can demonstrate your expertise and show your commitment to helping your audience succeed, further solidifying your position as the trusted guide. What steps can your target audience take to achieve their desired outcome, and how does your brand and marketing efforts fit into that plan? Providing a clear plan is crucial for helping your target audience achieve their desired outcome. Your plan should be simple to understand, actionable, and aligned with your audience's needs and preferences. By clearly outlining the steps that your audience needs to take to achieve their goals, you can demonstrate that your brand understands their challenges and can provide practical solutions that work. Highlighting how your brand and marketing efforts fit into the plan can help reinforce your position as the trusted guide and make it easier for your audience to follow the plan and achieve their desired outcome. When your audience sees that you understand their problem very well, they will be more likely to take action. What clear call to action do you want your target audience to take, and how can you make it easy for them to take that action? In a story, the hero is often called by their guide to face their challenges and pursue their goals. Similarly, in marketing, a clear call to action can serve as the guide's call to the hero, providing them with a specific action to take to overcome their problems and achieve their desired outcome. By framing your brand as the guide and providing a straightforward call to action, you can help your target audience feel motivated and empowered to take action and ultimately become the hero of their own success story. How has your brand helped others achieve their desired outcome, and what impact has it had on their lives? Sharing success stories and testimonials is a powerful way to illustrate the success that is possible for your hero. By showcasing real-world examples of how your brand has helped others overcome similar challenges and achieve their desired outcome, you can demonstrate the value of your product or service and build trust with your audience. When sharing success stories, it's important to highlight the specific impact that your brand has had on the lives of your customers and how it has helped them overcome their challenges and achieve their goals. This can help your target audience feel more confident and motivated to take action towards their own success. Make your BrandScript as visceral as possible using visual and sensory language. What does success look like for your target audience, and how can your brand help them achieve that vision? Paint a clear and compelling picture of what success looks like for them. By helping them visualize their desired outcome and the benefits of achieving it, you can create a powerful emotional connection and motivation to take action. Your brand can then serve potential clients as the bridge that helps them turn that vision into a reality, providing them with the tools, resources, and support they need to overcome their challenges and achieve their goals. Enjoy a clearer, stronger relationship with your audience, and better leads and more sales made. By using the StoryBrand framework and creating a powerful BrandScript, you can develop a clear and effective messaging strategy that resonates with your target audience, connects with them emotionally, and drives them to take action. This can be a powerful asset to your marketing materials, helping you stand out in a crowded market and generate better leads and sales. As you implement your BrandScript across all of your marketing channels, you can enjoy a clearer, stronger relationship with your audience, and the business growth that comes with it. Keep your brand message simple. Would children understand what you do? Make it easy to understand. Having a clear and compelling BrandScript can help your business in several ways. A good BrandScript can: We create websites and sales pages to help you stand out as an expert in your field. At Red Door Designs, we are StoryBrand certified and can help you clarify your marketing message and create a powerful BrandScript. We offer a range of services, including BrandScript creation, website design, marketing strategy, and more. Contact us today to learn how we can help you improve your marketing results and grow your business. Here's an example of one of our clients' websites before and after implementing the StoryBrand Framework If you'd like to see examples of how we apply the StoryBrand framework to write compelling websites that convert, [check out our work here](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/see-my-work). I'm Kris Jones, and I'm so happy we've connected. Most business owners struggle when writing for their own business. My streamlined process gets them copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so they can double revenue and stay in their zone of genius. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. **Kris:** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast. I am beyond delighted today to have my dear friend, my mentor, my coach, the brilliant Neil Williams. She has been instrumental in my entrepreneurial journey in helping me simplify my business and really, uh, target my focus. So I'm really doing the work that I'm put on the planet to do, that I am, um, Using my greatest gifts with every one of my clients. And before we hopped on the call, um, Neil and I were talking about how \[00:01:00\] she has helped me in so many ways. So I'm going to fill you in on that, uh, today. And really, we're going to talk about how to simplify our lives as business owners, how to do, how to set ourself up with tools and strategies and mindsets that really allow us to do more of the work that we love and less of the marketing and the minutiae and the to do's that come with being a business owner. So um, Neil, welcome. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. It's so wonderful to be here. I love chatting with you and that was quite the introduction. Hopefully the show lives up to that. **Kris:** I know it will. I know it will. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. **Neill:** So I'm a productivity coach, mindset coach. So I help, um, high achieving people in corporate or our high achieving entrepreneurs, who I'm sure there are many listening to the show really simplify work less. But achieve \[00:02:00\] their goals, what they want. I really don't, I, this is kind of like the thing that I did in the corporate world that I took into starting my business was proving to myself that the amount of time that I spent doing something did not. It doesn't mean success or failure. It really is, it's a different equation. **Kris:** What's what's the situation that comes to mind when you think about that? Like when you had that aha, like, Oh my gosh, I hardly spent any time on this and I'm getting much greater results than when I used to spend a lot more time on it. What? Give me, give me an example. **Neill:** Well, it started with when I was in the corporate worlds. Um, and this has been 15 years ago. Yeah, my son is 15. So about 15 years ago, had a baby. I was, um, partner track in a firm. I was an actuary. If you don't know what that is, you can Google it. It's a numbers job. Nobody knows what it is, but in any case, I was working 60 plus hours per week. That wasn't the way that I wanted to, um, have my life structured in terms of having the time that I wanted to be with my son as a mom. So I started really diving into this whole \[00:03:00\] productivity time management thing, and I was like, if I could just work like 30 hours per week, I feel like I'd have like the right balance. And so the way that I approached it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to work less. It was, I'm going to still produce the same amount, but I'm going to figure out how to do it in less time. And I slowly over a little bit of time, probably took me a year, maybe two years max, I scaled all the way back to 30 hours. And I was, but I was producing the same amount of, not more as anyone else in the company. And so I was like, wow, this is really powerful. I feel like other people should know this. **Neill:** so then I started my own business on the side to help other people do similar things. Yes. **Kris:** Got it. Okay. And so did anybody in that you are working with know that you are dramatically like being more efficient and working less? Okay. **Neill:** Yeah. It wasn't well respected. Um, I guess well received in the world that I was in because. Working overtime was like this badge \[00:04:00\] of honor. It was like, you're at the top of the food chain if you have the highest number of overtime hours. And for a long time, I bought into that. They, at our team meetings, they would put up a chart and it would show everybody's overtime hours for the like year to date. And I was always like, number one, number two. And I was like, so damn proud of that. **Kris:** it's so telling of corporate culture that there's this like a wall of like accolades based on amount of overtime hours and not at all related to productivity, right? **Neill:** It was so silly when I, once I like saw it, I was like, this is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. It was like, we were actually demotivating any productive efforts because You're, you're gonna, if overtime is the answer is the goal, then you're going to inflate everything that you do and make it take longer, which is the opposite of efficiency. So it didn't make sense to me. So, but that's the way that culture was. That's it. And it's fine. It can stay that way. I was not willing to stay there \[00:05:00\] and continue to be involved in that machine. **Kris:** Right. Right. It's so amazing that you had that awareness. And I love, I didn't realize that the timing of all this happened around the time that you had your son. Yeah. Because the way that you helped me is when I had my son and I was feeling that same sense of like overwhelm, um, working more is going to get me more results. And you totally shifted that perspective for me. But the gift of having a child I think is so huge in for women helping us and men too, I'm sure. But like helping us really. Realize, like, we actually don't have the capacity for operating in this way anymore, and nor do we want to. Right. **Neill:** And it's not necessary. That's the thing that I think we think that, um, we have to in order to achieve whatever success metric that we're going for. \[00:06:00\] And that, that alone changed my life because I realized. The hard work plus amount of time does not, is not the only formula for success. It might work for some people, but it's not the only one. I don't think it works for most working moms. Most working moms don't want to be on that kind of trajectory. **Neill:** nearly impossible to sustain for long periods of time. **Kris:** Truly, truly. So what did you, what were some of the initial things that you, that, that started working for you then that you're still implementing now? Yeah. **Neill:** So I worked on my brain. Um, so we can talk about a couple of mindset things, which was the most powerful piece because I didn't know that I can't work on my brain or think differently about things. That's the reason I got certified as a coach and then certified as a master coach and went down that whole route. But there were also tactical things that I did as well. So, I mean, I started really, my tendency is once I'm interested in something is I just \[00:07:00\] go research the heck out of it. Like I consume everything I can about it. I try to educate myself and then I start applying the things that I learned. So there was this one principle that told me that. We as humans have this tendency to expand any activity to fill the amount of time that we give it. And I was like, wait a minute, if that's true, then I can just set the time. And then I can figure out how to get the thing done in the amount of time that I want to spend on it. That was like such a huge shift. If it felt like. Um, really revelatory, even though it's not a new idea. Um, so I started simply like putting things on my calendar in time blocks and not just like work on client, whatever it was, get X done. And so that every time block had something where I was accomplishing something. **Neill:** that felt great because I didn't, I no longer was I leaving my day feeling like. I sat here for 12 hours and I don't even know what I did. It was like, oh, I got this done and this done and this done, this done, this done. I could literally see the work accomplished. So that was like \[00:08:00\] the biggest, like probably the most powerful first tactical strategy that I used. Um, and then I would say the other thing that I learned is that. Whatever we decide is true. That's what we're going to build evidence for. We're going to have the experience of that. So in my mind, the thought that ran rampant over and over was, there's not enough time. I can't get it all done. All those flavors of thoughts. And I was like, okay. So I'm actually creating that experience for myself because I'm believing that to be true. But what if I just tried to believe something else is true? Like **Neill:** always get everything done. I have plenty of time. So I started just practicing those ideas in my mind. And that is the experience that I started creating. **Neill:** So I would say those two are both very, very powerful and kind of set me on the trajectory towards, you know, shrinking back my work week, um, by 50%. **Kris:** Incredible. Incredible. And then at what point, you know, you, you started kind of a side gig with coaching. At what point did you decide, just decide, \[00:09:00\] I'm, I'm taking the leap. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fully self employed. **Neill:** Well, I'm pretty, um, I'm not really great at taking risks. So I had my side gig for quite some time. I was doing both, but the way that I did my side gig was I had scaled my work week back to 30 hours. And I was like, okay, I'm going to take 10 hours for my business. I'm going to build my business in 10 hours a week. So that's what I did for probably three years. And then it was to the point where. There was enough, um, kind of disagreement between myself and the partners, um, in this firm that I gave my partnership and we decided to part ways. The biggest of those was they decided that I couldn't do both, that I, it was a conflict of interest for me to do both. And so I was like, Hey, Neil, this is a. This is a turning point. Are you going to vote for yourself or do the thing that feels safe? And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try doing my own thing and just see if I can make it work. And so that was, like I said, about three years in. **Kris:** And you are, you are working kind of for, for your coaching business, you are working. \[00:10:00\] 10 hours a week. And that reminds me of kind of the theme of the way you approach. Yeah, entrepreneurship, right? And that I'm sure that that has, um, gone up and down over the years. But what's been your journey? Because I think you're back to 10 hours per week. **Neill:** that that's like my maximum workweek at this point. Perfect. Yeah, so I left the corporate world and then I scaled up my work week to about 20, maybe sometimes 25 hours per week, just as a solopreneur, Um, this last year over a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of health stuff going on. And so I started ratcheting that back last year. I was maybe about 15 hours per week this year. I'm somewhere between seven and 10 hours per week. And it's done very strategically. Um, and with intention behind it, because this is a year that I want to just like take care of. All the rest of my health things, and I have a lot of other things going on. I'm, I'm \[00:11:00\] partially homeschooling my son and you know, there's just other things that I want to do in my life, so it feels like the right fit for right now. **Kris:** Do you ever find yourself kind of dipping your toe into wanting to do a little bit more, or are you just so skilled at this point that you don't have that urge? **Neill:** I really don't have that urge anymore. In fact, the thought that goes through my brain is like, I wonder how I could do this in five hours or I wonder how I like it's just like it's a game that I've played with my brain for so many years like literally almost 15 years at this point **Neill:** just like it's like a little challenge that I give to myself so yeah I don't really maybe there will be a point where I want to scale it up. And for me, that would just mean taking on more clients, but I feel really content where I'm at right now. **Kris:** That's so lovely. So tell me, um, share with me how you work with your clients. Like somebody will come to you. What are they struggling with? And then how do you actually work with them over time? So right now I am only working with folks one on one, um, because that's what feels \[00:12:00\] really good to me. And we work together for a minimum of six months. Better a year. Um, typically someone will come to me like I onboarded a client just a few weeks ago, and this person has an online business. And wants to scale back his work week from like 40 plus hours down to 20. I'm like, cool, let's do that. So that will like, and just set an initial goal. And then we work together every week for that period of time. And it's partially mindset coaching. It's partially tools and tactics and strategies for how to shrink things back. He'll be at that 20 to 25 hours. And in fact, he's, he's at least 50 percent of the way now he's one of those, like you, you tell me what to do. I'm, I'm a really good implementer. I'll just do it. And so that's amazing. Those are the best. I know. That's super fun for a coach because you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like this instant gratification of so many like little wins that they're getting so quickly. Um, so yeah, so that's what it looks like. I, \[00:13:00\] I coach on everything. It's not just time. It's interesting because people think it's time management and productivity, but it's a whole host of other things. There's so many psychological factors that go into it. A lot of, um, nervous system work, mindset work, cognitive behavior therapy, all kinds of disciplines I bring into the fold. **Kris:** There's so many layers there, right? Like there's, there's so much, um, underneath the busyness, right? That, that's like, it could be trauma related or could be just sitting with difficult pain that you don't want to feel. Um, and so you kind of have to, Be kind of a partially, uh, like a healer. Like you're not doing the healing for them, but you're like really facilitating them to go underneath why they're creating such busyness in their life. **Neill:** It really is deeper. I think people mistakenly think that productivity and time management is kind of \[00:14:00\] like a surface level thing, but if you really want to have a beautiful relationship with time, it requires that deeper work. And as a coach, I really. feel like I, I am in some sense of healer, but more so in the sense of, I facilitate my clients coming to understand themselves better. And what that means is understanding why they do what they do, because it always makes sense. Once we figure out the why behind it. And once you have that, it just releases all kinds of shame and judgment and there's so much clarity and calm that comes through that process. **Kris:** What do you find this guy was a model client, but what do you find when clients have resistance or they're having difficulty implementing or getting over those hurdles? What are they? What are they struggling with the most and how do you hold their hand through? the difficulty? **Neill:** Well, when, when that happens, which is more often the case, there is deeper work that has to be done. So it's some sort of low lying belief system that they picked up. A lot of the stuff \[00:15:00\] that we discover in coaching, it has happened during childhood or some really pivotal experiences. And part of my job is to help my clients connect the dots to how that. It's creating this pattern of behavior or this level of resistance or what's going on. So that has to do with like nervous system work. It has to do with understanding, you know, I brought in, um, some of my background in economics, um, because that's a lot of what describes and explains our subconscious thinking, which is what drives like 95 percent of what we do. And so it's a matter of. Kind of peeling back those layers and figuring out why you're resisting or why you're struggling with making this new habit. There's always a reason. You always make **Kris:** sense. Always. Yep, completely. Oh, that's such incredible work. And you've, you've recently written a book. Is that right? **Neill:** Yes. Tell us about it. Yeah, so it's called How to Thrive on a 10 Hour Workweek. \[00:16:00\] And it really, even though it has, you know, like it has the nice little markety title. It really is about examining our relationship with time. That's really what I hope people are taking away from it is a way to approach and, um, really create a beautiful relationship with time because there's so much stress and anxiety and worry about this thing we have made up called time. And I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we can feel really balanced and at ease. Um, and feel like we're accomplishing what we want, especially the working moms. I really wrote it for them because they have so many things on their plate and there's so much societal pressure for what they accomplish. **Kris:** That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience about? Something that you want them, like a takeaway that you want them to have, whether it be about time or entrepreneurship, what would you like to share? **Neill:** Yeah, I think, um, the biggest \[00:17:00\] thing that I would say is really examine your belief systems around time. If, if time is something you want to work with, which I am biased, of course, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor that literally can change your life. And if that's something that you want to tackle and you want to do it on your own, the best place to start is to really find what you believe about time. And our belief systems come from four different places. They come from what happened in our childhood, what our teachers, our parents, those influential adults taught us about time, what we took away from their models. Um, it comes from our peers. Um, colleagues, um, coaches, therapists, doctors, those influential things. And in this day and age for you and I, Kris, our children, especially social media influence. I mean, what you see on Instagram or Tik TOK or YouTube, YouTube's my son's thing. Um, it literally is shaping the belief systems of the people who are consuming it. So not to, I'm not like fear mongering. I'm just \[00:18:00\] saying that is the way that our nervous system, um, creates belief systems is the inputs that we receive. **Neill:** third thing. And then the fourth one is something that is only available to humans, which is our choice. What we decide to be true. You decide that you don't have enough time. That's what you will experience. If you decide that, of course you have enough time. That's what you will experience. And my favorite belief, this is something that, um, my assistant Kelly and I both geek out on, but. I mean, we message each other with ways that this has actually happened in our lives. We both believe that we create time and that's a really empowering way to think about it versus being at, um, you know, being an antagonist with time. **Kris:** Right. You're not a victim to time going by too quickly or not having enough. You're really, you're really the guide and time. Time is the hero and you are the guide. That's right. I **Neill:** love how \[00:19:00\] you just took it back to StoryBrand. That was brilliant. **Kris:** So before we wrap up, I do want to share just my personal experience of getting to work with you because you have been such an instrumental guide in my journey as an entrepreneur. And, um, for my audience, I just want to share Neil really helped me shape the offer that the way that I work with my clients. And she encouraged me and gave me clarity and The reality is this idea that as entrepreneurs were stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the, of the bottle, no one's immune to that. Even me, I, I provide such clarity for my clients, but I run my own business and I'm very close to it. And sometimes I need a brilliant coach and outside perspective to read the label of my bottle. And Neil has been that person for me. Many times now and in such profound ways \[00:20:00\] and she helped me and encouraged me to kick off my current offer, um, which was originally called copy that sells and it's evolved over time into the signature story selling system and it's, it's been such a gift to simplify the way I help my clients in one deep, profound way. I don't. I don't work with my clients in, in any other way and narrowing my offerings to one offering was the biggest way that I was able to kind of take the reins of my business and really have boundaries around my client work, my time involved. And it was like, the words don't really capture the, uh, the, way that it helped me and the way that it changed my life. And then a couple of years later, I, I've been working one on one with clients and I was loving it. And I was getting a lot of advice \[00:21:00\] from coaches and other. Other leaders, uh, other entrepreneur leaders and everyone was like, scale, scale, scale, group program, group program. You've got to do this. Like you've proof of concept one, one on one. Now let's expand it and grow it and multiply your impact and multiply your revenue. Honestly, I love working one on one with my clients, and that's what energizes me, but I thought, okay, the way to reach more people is to I created a group program and so of course I reached out to Neal and of course she was willing to have a power call with me and I ran it by her, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to scale. I'm going to do this group program. And I said, but here's the deal. I, I'm really resistant to this idea. Like I love my one on one work and I, I don't know if doing this work in a group format is going to be as effective. I, I don't know if this is like a \[00:22:00\] mindset thing that I need to overcome or, or what it is. And, but I need you to help me overcome that barrier and move forward with this group program. And she said these words, which we'll always remember. She said. Be careful what you build because you don't want to build it and then look back and wish you hadn't and And I realized in that moment that she was gently guiding me to listen to my own heart and listen to my own knowing and my own guidance and she just Brought me back to that and validated what was really true and right for me, and I have never looked back I was like, oh, I'm back on my path. I'm I know what I'm doing. I mean, I'm I I'm doubling down on one on one work it's the most fulfilling and it's it gets the greatest results for my clients and And here I am still loving my work still feeling super aligned with my purpose and \[00:23:00\] And being abundantly a compensated for the work as well, which is such a gift as well. So I just want to say thank you for the ways that you personally helped me. And it is such an honor to get to have you here today to bring your brilliance. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. I also hope everyone who heard what Kris just said realized that the reason that that worked is that Kris just went back and listened to herself, which is what a lot of coaching is, is bringing you back to yourself and listening to yourself and letting all of what everyone else is saying, even though it's so well meaning and well intended, We have to listen to what's true to us, and I really believe that's why you're so successful and why you're helping so many people is because you are staying true to you. **Kris:** Yeah, and so are you. Thank you. All right, well, Nia, where can my audience find you? **Neill:** So they could visit my website at, uh, www. neilwilliams. com. They \[00:24:00\] could go listen to a podcast if they're interested in doing some time management, productivity kind of mindset work. We have, I think we're at almost 300 episodes. So lots of things to choose from it's called success genius. Or if you just want to reach out with a question, you can email me at neil at neilwilliams. com. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) 1. **A Character** (your customer) 2. **Has a Problem** (they need to solve) 3. **And Meets a Guide** (your business) 4. **Who Gives Them a Plan** (your solutions) 5. **And Calls Them to Action** (to start the buying process) 6. **That Ends in Success** (the end result) 7. **And Helps Them Avoid Failure** (what would happen if they don't buy) 1. Clarify your message and make it more compelling to your target audience. 2. Help you stand out in a crowded marketplace and differentiate your brand from the competition. 3. Make it easier for your target audience to understand how your brand can help them solve their problems and achieve their goals. 4. Improve your marketing results by creating a more effective call to action and driving more conversions. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/what-donald-millers-storybrand-tells-us-about-marketing ### Title: What Donald Miller's StoryBrand Tells us About Marketing ### Page ID: 3103283 ### Content: ## Did Donald Miller Invent the StoryBrand Framework? ## What Donald Miller's StoryBrand Tells Us About Marketing ## What Tools Can I Use For Marketing using the StoryBrand Framework? ## Your Brand Story in Social Media Marketing ## Content Marketing with StoryBrand Principles ## Connect with your Potential Customer Through Email Marketing ## Telling Your Story in Paid Advertising ## Public Relations ## Want an Expert to Implement the StoryBrand Framework for you? # Hey, there! # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! # How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy What Donald Miller's StoryBrand Tells us About Marketing When it comes to marketing, there are a lot of different opinions out there. But one thing is for sure: you need to have a clear message if you want to be successful. That's where Donald Miller's StoryBrand comes in. In this blog post, we will discuss what StoryBrand is and how it can help your business succeed! Donald Miller is the mastermind behind the StoryBrand framework, which has been used by some of the world's biggest brands to create more effective marketing. But did he really invent it? The answer may surprise you. Donald Miller didn't actually invent the StoryBrand framework. It was originally developed by a team of psychologists and marketing experts in the early 2000s. However, Miller was the one who popularized it and made it mainstream with his best-selling book, Building a StoryBrand. So while Donald Miller may not have invented the StoryBrand framework, he is certainly responsible for making it what it is today. And there's no doubt that it has had a major impact on the way businesses market and how business leaders approach brand building. If you're looking to take your brand's communication and marketing to the next level, then you would be wise to check out the StoryBrand framework. It could very well be the key to unlocking your brand's true potential. The first thing that StoryBrand says about marketing is that your message should be clear. You need to be able to articulate what you do and why it matters, in a way that is easy for your audience to understand. Otherwise, you will confuse customers and they will simply tune out. The second part is that we should focus on the customer, not on ourselves. It's easy to get caught up in all the features and benefits of our product or service, but at the end of the day, what matters most is how it will solve the customer's problem. The third part is that we need to create a compelling offer. This means offering something of value that the customer cannot resist, whether it's a discount, a free trial, or something else. The fourth thing StoryBrand tells us about marketing is that we need to have a strong call to action. This is what will prompt the customer to take the next step, whether it's signing up for your email list, making a purchase, or taking some other action. The final thing is that we need to tell a story. This is how you will connect with your audience on an emotional level and get them to remember your brand. Stories are what make us human, after all, so don't be afraid to use them in your marketing. These are five important things to keep in mind when creating a marketing message. By following these guidelines, you can create a message that will be successful in reaching and connecting with your target audience. When it comes to marketing, your message is everything. It's the foundation upon which your entire campaign is built, and it needs to be strong enough to carry your entire brand. That's why Donald Miller's StoryBrand is such an important resource for marketers. This book lays out a clear and concise framework for creating a marketing message and brand story that will resonate with your target audience. There are a few different ways that you can learn more about StoryBrand Marketing. One way is to join the StoryBrand Online Marketing Group on Facebook. This group is a great resource for learning more about how to use story in your marketing. Another way to learn about StoryBrand is to attend one of their workshops. These workshops are typically two days long and are held in various cities around the United States. If you are looking for a more comprehensive education on StoryBrand, you can sign up for their online course. This course is self-paced and includes video lessons, worksheets, and quizzes. No matter which route you choose to take, learning more about StoryBrand Marketing is sure to help you take your business to the next level. Which route you choose to take is up to you, but learning more about StoryBrand marketing will surely help you take your business to the next level. There are many success stories of businesses who have implemented StoryBrand into their marketing strategy and seen a significant increase in sales. If you want to learn more about StoryBrand and how it can help your business, we encourage you to check out one of the resources listed above. You won't be disappointed. You can apply the principles of StoryBrand to any marketing channel. Just remember that your customer is the main character - the customer is the hero of the story. You are the guide that will bring them a happy ending and help them avoid failure. Try implementing StoryBrand into your strategy and you may be amazed at your marketing results. There are a lot of great marketing tools available to a business owner these days. But with so many options that companies tend to use, it can be tough to decide which ones to use. Here are a few of the most popular marketing tools that can help you reach your target audience: Social media platforms like Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram are great for connecting with potential customers. You can use them to share your brand’s story, promote your products or services, and build relationships with your target audience. Creating quality content and marketing messages (marketing materials like blog posts, eBooks, infographics, etc.) is a great way to tell your brand story and attract attention to your business. It helps you show off your expertise and build trust with potential customers. Email is still one of the most [effective ways to reach your target audience](https://sproutsocial.com/insights/digital-marketing-tools/) with your well-thought marketing campaign, most business leaders use this method. You can use it to stay in touch with current customers and prospects, and share helpful information about your business. Telling a specific story, or sharing a customer's testimonial is a great way to connect with your potential customer and inspire them on their hero's journey. You can spend money on [Paid advertising](https://neilpatel.com/blog/paid-internet-advertising/), such as Google AdWords or Facebook Ads, which can be a great way to reach potential customers who are actively searching for products or services like yours, and you can sell solutions to them. As long as use empathy and stories, you can connect with the customers in a powerful way. Getting positive media coverage can help raise awareness of your business and build trust with potential customers. No matter which marketing tools you decide to use, the important thing is to be consistent and put in the effort into your storybrand marketing framework. The more you put into your marketing, the more likely you are to see results. You may not have the time or the interest to get trained in the StoryBrand framework. Not to worry! Here at Red Door Designs, we can save you tons of time by implementing a StoryBrand website for you in 2.5 hours flat. We'll do all the heavy lifting and transform your website or sales page into a powerful tool for connecting with your customers and closing sales. As a StoryBrand certified guide, we're here to be your trusted resource to clarify your message and reach your customers. The StoryBrand framework is a game changer. Click here to learn more and sign up for your [Copy that Sells](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/copy). I'm Kris Jones, and I'm so happy we've connected. Most business owners struggle when writing for their own business. My streamlined process gets them copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so they can double revenue and stay in their zone of genius. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. **Kris:** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast. I am beyond delighted today to have my dear friend, my mentor, my coach, the brilliant Neil Williams. She has been instrumental in my entrepreneurial journey in helping me simplify my business and really, uh, target my focus. So I'm really doing the work that I'm put on the planet to do, that I am, um, Using my greatest gifts with every one of my clients. And before we hopped on the call, um, Neil and I were talking about how \[00:01:00\] she has helped me in so many ways. So I'm going to fill you in on that, uh, today. And really, we're going to talk about how to simplify our lives as business owners, how to do, how to set ourself up with tools and strategies and mindsets that really allow us to do more of the work that we love and less of the marketing and the minutiae and the to do's that come with being a business owner. So um, Neil, welcome. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. It's so wonderful to be here. I love chatting with you and that was quite the introduction. Hopefully the show lives up to that. **Kris:** I know it will. I know it will. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. **Neill:** So I'm a productivity coach, mindset coach. So I help, um, high achieving people in corporate or our high achieving entrepreneurs, who I'm sure there are many listening to the show really simplify work less. But achieve \[00:02:00\] their goals, what they want. I really don't, I, this is kind of like the thing that I did in the corporate world that I took into starting my business was proving to myself that the amount of time that I spent doing something did not. It doesn't mean success or failure. It really is, it's a different equation. **Kris:** What's what's the situation that comes to mind when you think about that? Like when you had that aha, like, Oh my gosh, I hardly spent any time on this and I'm getting much greater results than when I used to spend a lot more time on it. What? Give me, give me an example. **Neill:** Well, it started with when I was in the corporate worlds. Um, and this has been 15 years ago. Yeah, my son is 15. So about 15 years ago, had a baby. I was, um, partner track in a firm. I was an actuary. If you don't know what that is, you can Google it. It's a numbers job. Nobody knows what it is, but in any case, I was working 60 plus hours per week. That wasn't the way that I wanted to, um, have my life structured in terms of having the time that I wanted to be with my son as a mom. So I started really diving into this whole \[00:03:00\] productivity time management thing, and I was like, if I could just work like 30 hours per week, I feel like I'd have like the right balance. And so the way that I approached it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to work less. It was, I'm going to still produce the same amount, but I'm going to figure out how to do it in less time. And I slowly over a little bit of time, probably took me a year, maybe two years max, I scaled all the way back to 30 hours. And I was, but I was producing the same amount of, not more as anyone else in the company. And so I was like, wow, this is really powerful. I feel like other people should know this. **Neill:** so then I started my own business on the side to help other people do similar things. Yes. **Kris:** Got it. Okay. And so did anybody in that you are working with know that you are dramatically like being more efficient and working less? Okay. **Neill:** Yeah. It wasn't well respected. Um, I guess well received in the world that I was in because. Working overtime was like this badge \[00:04:00\] of honor. It was like, you're at the top of the food chain if you have the highest number of overtime hours. And for a long time, I bought into that. They, at our team meetings, they would put up a chart and it would show everybody's overtime hours for the like year to date. And I was always like, number one, number two. And I was like, so damn proud of that. **Kris:** it's so telling of corporate culture that there's this like a wall of like accolades based on amount of overtime hours and not at all related to productivity, right? **Neill:** It was so silly when I, once I like saw it, I was like, this is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. It was like, we were actually demotivating any productive efforts because You're, you're gonna, if overtime is the answer is the goal, then you're going to inflate everything that you do and make it take longer, which is the opposite of efficiency. So it didn't make sense to me. So, but that's the way that culture was. That's it. And it's fine. It can stay that way. I was not willing to stay there \[00:05:00\] and continue to be involved in that machine. **Kris:** Right. Right. It's so amazing that you had that awareness. And I love, I didn't realize that the timing of all this happened around the time that you had your son. Yeah. Because the way that you helped me is when I had my son and I was feeling that same sense of like overwhelm, um, working more is going to get me more results. And you totally shifted that perspective for me. But the gift of having a child I think is so huge in for women helping us and men too, I'm sure. But like helping us really. Realize, like, we actually don't have the capacity for operating in this way anymore, and nor do we want to. Right. **Neill:** And it's not necessary. That's the thing that I think we think that, um, we have to in order to achieve whatever success metric that we're going for. \[00:06:00\] And that, that alone changed my life because I realized. The hard work plus amount of time does not, is not the only formula for success. It might work for some people, but it's not the only one. I don't think it works for most working moms. Most working moms don't want to be on that kind of trajectory. **Neill:** nearly impossible to sustain for long periods of time. **Kris:** Truly, truly. So what did you, what were some of the initial things that you, that, that started working for you then that you're still implementing now? Yeah. **Neill:** So I worked on my brain. Um, so we can talk about a couple of mindset things, which was the most powerful piece because I didn't know that I can't work on my brain or think differently about things. That's the reason I got certified as a coach and then certified as a master coach and went down that whole route. But there were also tactical things that I did as well. So, I mean, I started really, my tendency is once I'm interested in something is I just \[00:07:00\] go research the heck out of it. Like I consume everything I can about it. I try to educate myself and then I start applying the things that I learned. So there was this one principle that told me that. We as humans have this tendency to expand any activity to fill the amount of time that we give it. And I was like, wait a minute, if that's true, then I can just set the time. And then I can figure out how to get the thing done in the amount of time that I want to spend on it. That was like such a huge shift. If it felt like. Um, really revelatory, even though it's not a new idea. Um, so I started simply like putting things on my calendar in time blocks and not just like work on client, whatever it was, get X done. And so that every time block had something where I was accomplishing something. **Neill:** that felt great because I didn't, I no longer was I leaving my day feeling like. I sat here for 12 hours and I don't even know what I did. It was like, oh, I got this done and this done and this done, this done, this done. I could literally see the work accomplished. So that was like \[00:08:00\] the biggest, like probably the most powerful first tactical strategy that I used. Um, and then I would say the other thing that I learned is that. Whatever we decide is true. That's what we're going to build evidence for. We're going to have the experience of that. So in my mind, the thought that ran rampant over and over was, there's not enough time. I can't get it all done. All those flavors of thoughts. And I was like, okay. So I'm actually creating that experience for myself because I'm believing that to be true. But what if I just tried to believe something else is true? Like **Neill:** always get everything done. I have plenty of time. So I started just practicing those ideas in my mind. And that is the experience that I started creating. **Neill:** So I would say those two are both very, very powerful and kind of set me on the trajectory towards, you know, shrinking back my work week, um, by 50%. **Kris:** Incredible. Incredible. And then at what point, you know, you, you started kind of a side gig with coaching. At what point did you decide, just decide, \[00:09:00\] I'm, I'm taking the leap. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fully self employed. **Neill:** Well, I'm pretty, um, I'm not really great at taking risks. So I had my side gig for quite some time. I was doing both, but the way that I did my side gig was I had scaled my work week back to 30 hours. And I was like, okay, I'm going to take 10 hours for my business. I'm going to build my business in 10 hours a week. So that's what I did for probably three years. And then it was to the point where. There was enough, um, kind of disagreement between myself and the partners, um, in this firm that I gave my partnership and we decided to part ways. The biggest of those was they decided that I couldn't do both, that I, it was a conflict of interest for me to do both. And so I was like, Hey, Neil, this is a. This is a turning point. Are you going to vote for yourself or do the thing that feels safe? And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try doing my own thing and just see if I can make it work. And so that was, like I said, about three years in. **Kris:** And you are, you are working kind of for, for your coaching business, you are working. \[00:10:00\] 10 hours a week. And that reminds me of kind of the theme of the way you approach. Yeah, entrepreneurship, right? And that I'm sure that that has, um, gone up and down over the years. But what's been your journey? Because I think you're back to 10 hours per week. **Neill:** that that's like my maximum workweek at this point. Perfect. Yeah, so I left the corporate world and then I scaled up my work week to about 20, maybe sometimes 25 hours per week, just as a solopreneur, Um, this last year over a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of health stuff going on. And so I started ratcheting that back last year. I was maybe about 15 hours per week this year. I'm somewhere between seven and 10 hours per week. And it's done very strategically. Um, and with intention behind it, because this is a year that I want to just like take care of. All the rest of my health things, and I have a lot of other things going on. I'm, I'm \[00:11:00\] partially homeschooling my son and you know, there's just other things that I want to do in my life, so it feels like the right fit for right now. **Kris:** Do you ever find yourself kind of dipping your toe into wanting to do a little bit more, or are you just so skilled at this point that you don't have that urge? **Neill:** I really don't have that urge anymore. In fact, the thought that goes through my brain is like, I wonder how I could do this in five hours or I wonder how I like it's just like it's a game that I've played with my brain for so many years like literally almost 15 years at this point **Neill:** just like it's like a little challenge that I give to myself so yeah I don't really maybe there will be a point where I want to scale it up. And for me, that would just mean taking on more clients, but I feel really content where I'm at right now. **Kris:** That's so lovely. So tell me, um, share with me how you work with your clients. Like somebody will come to you. What are they struggling with? And then how do you actually work with them over time? So right now I am only working with folks one on one, um, because that's what feels \[00:12:00\] really good to me. And we work together for a minimum of six months. Better a year. Um, typically someone will come to me like I onboarded a client just a few weeks ago, and this person has an online business. And wants to scale back his work week from like 40 plus hours down to 20. I'm like, cool, let's do that. So that will like, and just set an initial goal. And then we work together every week for that period of time. And it's partially mindset coaching. It's partially tools and tactics and strategies for how to shrink things back. He'll be at that 20 to 25 hours. And in fact, he's, he's at least 50 percent of the way now he's one of those, like you, you tell me what to do. I'm, I'm a really good implementer. I'll just do it. And so that's amazing. Those are the best. I know. That's super fun for a coach because you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like this instant gratification of so many like little wins that they're getting so quickly. Um, so yeah, so that's what it looks like. I, \[00:13:00\] I coach on everything. It's not just time. It's interesting because people think it's time management and productivity, but it's a whole host of other things. There's so many psychological factors that go into it. A lot of, um, nervous system work, mindset work, cognitive behavior therapy, all kinds of disciplines I bring into the fold. **Kris:** There's so many layers there, right? Like there's, there's so much, um, underneath the busyness, right? That, that's like, it could be trauma related or could be just sitting with difficult pain that you don't want to feel. Um, and so you kind of have to, Be kind of a partially, uh, like a healer. Like you're not doing the healing for them, but you're like really facilitating them to go underneath why they're creating such busyness in their life. **Neill:** It really is deeper. I think people mistakenly think that productivity and time management is kind of \[00:14:00\] like a surface level thing, but if you really want to have a beautiful relationship with time, it requires that deeper work. And as a coach, I really. feel like I, I am in some sense of healer, but more so in the sense of, I facilitate my clients coming to understand themselves better. And what that means is understanding why they do what they do, because it always makes sense. Once we figure out the why behind it. And once you have that, it just releases all kinds of shame and judgment and there's so much clarity and calm that comes through that process. **Kris:** What do you find this guy was a model client, but what do you find when clients have resistance or they're having difficulty implementing or getting over those hurdles? What are they? What are they struggling with the most and how do you hold their hand through? the difficulty? **Neill:** Well, when, when that happens, which is more often the case, there is deeper work that has to be done. So it's some sort of low lying belief system that they picked up. A lot of the stuff \[00:15:00\] that we discover in coaching, it has happened during childhood or some really pivotal experiences. And part of my job is to help my clients connect the dots to how that. It's creating this pattern of behavior or this level of resistance or what's going on. So that has to do with like nervous system work. It has to do with understanding, you know, I brought in, um, some of my background in economics, um, because that's a lot of what describes and explains our subconscious thinking, which is what drives like 95 percent of what we do. And so it's a matter of. Kind of peeling back those layers and figuring out why you're resisting or why you're struggling with making this new habit. There's always a reason. You always make **Kris:** sense. Always. Yep, completely. Oh, that's such incredible work. And you've, you've recently written a book. Is that right? **Neill:** Yes. Tell us about it. Yeah, so it's called How to Thrive on a 10 Hour Workweek. \[00:16:00\] And it really, even though it has, you know, like it has the nice little markety title. It really is about examining our relationship with time. That's really what I hope people are taking away from it is a way to approach and, um, really create a beautiful relationship with time because there's so much stress and anxiety and worry about this thing we have made up called time. And I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we can feel really balanced and at ease. Um, and feel like we're accomplishing what we want, especially the working moms. I really wrote it for them because they have so many things on their plate and there's so much societal pressure for what they accomplish. **Kris:** That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience about? Something that you want them, like a takeaway that you want them to have, whether it be about time or entrepreneurship, what would you like to share? **Neill:** Yeah, I think, um, the biggest \[00:17:00\] thing that I would say is really examine your belief systems around time. If, if time is something you want to work with, which I am biased, of course, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor that literally can change your life. And if that's something that you want to tackle and you want to do it on your own, the best place to start is to really find what you believe about time. And our belief systems come from four different places. They come from what happened in our childhood, what our teachers, our parents, those influential adults taught us about time, what we took away from their models. Um, it comes from our peers. Um, colleagues, um, coaches, therapists, doctors, those influential things. And in this day and age for you and I, Kris, our children, especially social media influence. I mean, what you see on Instagram or Tik TOK or YouTube, YouTube's my son's thing. Um, it literally is shaping the belief systems of the people who are consuming it. So not to, I'm not like fear mongering. I'm just \[00:18:00\] saying that is the way that our nervous system, um, creates belief systems is the inputs that we receive. **Neill:** third thing. And then the fourth one is something that is only available to humans, which is our choice. What we decide to be true. You decide that you don't have enough time. That's what you will experience. If you decide that, of course you have enough time. That's what you will experience. And my favorite belief, this is something that, um, my assistant Kelly and I both geek out on, but. I mean, we message each other with ways that this has actually happened in our lives. We both believe that we create time and that's a really empowering way to think about it versus being at, um, you know, being an antagonist with time. **Kris:** Right. You're not a victim to time going by too quickly or not having enough. You're really, you're really the guide and time. Time is the hero and you are the guide. That's right. I **Neill:** love how \[00:19:00\] you just took it back to StoryBrand. That was brilliant. **Kris:** So before we wrap up, I do want to share just my personal experience of getting to work with you because you have been such an instrumental guide in my journey as an entrepreneur. And, um, for my audience, I just want to share Neil really helped me shape the offer that the way that I work with my clients. And she encouraged me and gave me clarity and The reality is this idea that as entrepreneurs were stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the, of the bottle, no one's immune to that. Even me, I, I provide such clarity for my clients, but I run my own business and I'm very close to it. And sometimes I need a brilliant coach and outside perspective to read the label of my bottle. And Neil has been that person for me. Many times now and in such profound ways \[00:20:00\] and she helped me and encouraged me to kick off my current offer, um, which was originally called copy that sells and it's evolved over time into the signature story selling system and it's, it's been such a gift to simplify the way I help my clients in one deep, profound way. I don't. I don't work with my clients in, in any other way and narrowing my offerings to one offering was the biggest way that I was able to kind of take the reins of my business and really have boundaries around my client work, my time involved. And it was like, the words don't really capture the, uh, the, way that it helped me and the way that it changed my life. And then a couple of years later, I, I've been working one on one with clients and I was loving it. And I was getting a lot of advice \[00:21:00\] from coaches and other. Other leaders, uh, other entrepreneur leaders and everyone was like, scale, scale, scale, group program, group program. You've got to do this. Like you've proof of concept one, one on one. Now let's expand it and grow it and multiply your impact and multiply your revenue. Honestly, I love working one on one with my clients, and that's what energizes me, but I thought, okay, the way to reach more people is to I created a group program and so of course I reached out to Neal and of course she was willing to have a power call with me and I ran it by her, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to scale. I'm going to do this group program. And I said, but here's the deal. I, I'm really resistant to this idea. Like I love my one on one work and I, I don't know if doing this work in a group format is going to be as effective. I, I don't know if this is like a \[00:22:00\] mindset thing that I need to overcome or, or what it is. And, but I need you to help me overcome that barrier and move forward with this group program. And she said these words, which we'll always remember. She said. Be careful what you build because you don't want to build it and then look back and wish you hadn't and And I realized in that moment that she was gently guiding me to listen to my own heart and listen to my own knowing and my own guidance and she just Brought me back to that and validated what was really true and right for me, and I have never looked back I was like, oh, I'm back on my path. I'm I know what I'm doing. I mean, I'm I I'm doubling down on one on one work it's the most fulfilling and it's it gets the greatest results for my clients and And here I am still loving my work still feeling super aligned with my purpose and \[00:23:00\] And being abundantly a compensated for the work as well, which is such a gift as well. So I just want to say thank you for the ways that you personally helped me. And it is such an honor to get to have you here today to bring your brilliance. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. I also hope everyone who heard what Kris just said realized that the reason that that worked is that Kris just went back and listened to herself, which is what a lot of coaching is, is bringing you back to yourself and listening to yourself and letting all of what everyone else is saying, even though it's so well meaning and well intended, We have to listen to what's true to us, and I really believe that's why you're so successful and why you're helping so many people is because you are staying true to you. **Kris:** Yeah, and so are you. Thank you. All right, well, Nia, where can my audience find you? **Neill:** So they could visit my website at, uh, www. neilwilliams. com. They \[00:24:00\] could go listen to a podcast if they're interested in doing some time management, productivity kind of mindset work. We have, I think we're at almost 300 episodes. So lots of things to choose from it's called success genius. Or if you just want to reach out with a question, you can email me at neil at neilwilliams. com. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/video-testimonials ### Title: Video Testimonials ### Page ID: 3127084 ### Content: ## Getting this clear about what I do was priceless. #### You can't put a price tag on it because the the benefits will continue as long as I'm working. It's timeless! **And the psychology behind Kris' approach totally blew my mind!** ## I love Kris Jones’ work! #### **"Marketing should not be a black box investment. It won't be if you hire Kris."** ## Clients are already sold before I get on the phone with them. #### **It was so easy for me because Kris did the heavy lifting. And yet, I was engaged in just enough to make sure the copy truly was aligned with my voice.** ## It felt too good to be true, and yet is was true! #### **I wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own. If only I had invested in myself sooner. Now that I have the right words, I'm way more confident — and I use those words in everything I do!** ## “I'm booked solid for the next 6 months and already making $100k above my best year ever!” ## More clarity = I'm closing 95% of my sales calls. #### **Crafting my Signature Story helped me get clear in my own mind about what I do and how I do it. It's boosted my confidence and** **made me feel like an expert.** ## Kris helped me go farther, faster with the right Story. #### **When I saw my Story it was like, '*yes, this is me in words*' and I didn't have those words until now. It was really freeing and rewarding.** ## I made 93K in the last 3 months with my Story! #### **This was literally the answer to my prayers. I finally have words that resonate with my ideal client and increase conversions. Having Kris by my side and not having to do it alone made it so efficient.** ## I have such a sense of calm knowing it's done right. #### **I love StoryBrand but found it really hard to implement on my own. Kris made it easy! Now, having a website that's doing the heavy lifting for us is just so calming — and our waitlist is filling up.** ## There's no one better to work with in this business. #### **The most delightful part of the process is working with Kris herself. There is no one like Kris Jones. She will understand the essence of your business, like she did mine and she will create a beautiful product that has resonance with clients. And she'll do it in a way that full of joy, play and beauty.** ## Kris keeps it simple and every step felt easy. #### **I was really happy with the Story we crafted and have been using it in every area of my business. That box is checked on having a solid, clear sales page that works. Also, seeing how she runs her business has helped me simplify how I run mine.** ## I'm charging 6X more for the exact same service. #### **I was not making enough, burning out and about to close the doors of my business — so investing in Kris was a big leap.** #### **I know what I do, but she helped me communicate it in a simple way that resonated with my ideal clients.** #### **Now that my business is cohesive and aligned from the inside out, I show up more confidently and our clients see us in a more elevated way. I even have a sense of swagger about my brand.** #### **Within just a few weeks, my pipeline filled up and my revenue was 40% higher than my previous highest month!** #### **If you're struggling to reach your target market or command the price point you know you deserve, Red Door is the perfect fit.** ## I have peace of mind with a clear plan to ensure my growth continues. #### **My site was a muddled mess that was undermining my credibility. It was embarrassing. Kris saved me from many ineffective rabbit holes. She helped me avoid mistakes I would have made because I just didn't know.** #### **Now I feel a sense of pride about my website. I have peace of mind with a clear plan in place to ensure my growth continues.** #### **Having her as a trusted advisor and a brilliant thought partner was the very best thing I could have done for my business.** ## A comprehensive service at this price point is rare. #### **I used to avoid sending people to my website. Now it's the first place I send them because I have confidence in my messaging. I use the same story every single place I appear online including social media, linked in, my email signature and more!** ## YES, it's working! She hit the home run I hoped for. #### **I may (or may not) have shed some tears when I saw my Story come together. There's a real comfort and confidence having everything aligned and cohesive.** #### **My practice grew to the point where I needed to bring on a partner, which was my ultimate goal.** ## “The quality of Red Door's work is miles apart from anyone else in the market.” #### **BEFORE & AFTER** ## I'm more articulate and my confidence has grown. #### **I couldn't really articulate what it was that I needed to say to bring my Story to life... which was really frustrating. Kris helped me do it in a way that was authentic and allowed me to become more articulate and confident with my clients. Now they can see the value of the work I provide.** #### **The psychology she interwove behind her approach was so fascinating.** ## All the things that were foggy became clear. #### **I was worried if I hired someone, they wouldn't be able to capture my essence. But the process allowed me to express myself online in a heartfelt and genuine way. It was astounding!** ## The clarity helped me take my foot off the breaks and accelerate. #### **Before Kris, I kept second guessing myself and the story I was trying to write — like writers block. I was too close to my own work and Kris provided the perspective I needed to communicate clearly. Now I'm reinvigorated about my business!** ## I felt really seen and heard throughout the process. #### I felt a lot lighter. Like, whew, that load is off of my back and now I can really get to the work of helping others (and not being bogged down with marketing). ## It was really freeing. My Story brought clarity to every facet of my business. #### **I read StoryBrand but didn't have the brain space to figure out how to implement it myself. Kris saved me so much time!** ## It was a miracle how she brought forth my purpose. Now I can share it with the world! #### **I was really stuck and frustrated trying to communicate the depth of what I do. I'd spend hours explaining my work to potential clients each week. Now my website does all that for me. I have a streamlined platform in which to grow.** #### **Kris really listened and distilled my Story for me. My overwhelm melted away and was replaced with calm, confidence and clarity.** # Take your brand from confusing to clear! #### Case studies of clients experiencing big wins and accelerated growth. # “My revenue is 40% higher!” #### Goals: #### Scope of Work: #### Results: # “Everything feels more organized and purposeful.” ##### ***East Portland Sash Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “I went from a cookie-cutter website to something that 100% resonates.” ##### ***Dr. Kim Okamura Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “It's an entirely new way of approaching brand storytelling & website design.” ##### ***Loretta Soffe Consulting Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “We've had a record breaking number of lead calls booked every month.” ##### ***PDX Home Loan Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “My message is clear, connects, and gets potential clients excited to work with me.” ##### ***MultiGen Wealth Strategies Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “Business is literally booming and I have such peace of mind about my message.” ##### ***Worktank Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “We've been getting more leads than ever before!” ##### ***Catchall Environmental Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “StoryBrand strategy makes it easy for potential clients to say yes.” ##### ***Pivotal Consulting Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “We're so proud to send patients to our site and show off our brand story.” ##### ***Dr. Jay Harris Levy Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** # “What Kris delivered is focused, clean and effective.” ##### ***Wine Paddle Overview*** ##### ***Goals*** ##### ***Scope of Work*** ##### ***Results*** I just received your booking and am about to review your website & messaging in preparation for our call. **\>>> Please make sure our meeting is in your calendar!** **On our call, I'll give you a clear understanding of why your website isn't working as well as it should...and what you can do to fix it. We'll also craft your Money-Making Messaging Plan.** I'm sure you can tell by now, I'm pretty dang passionate about helping self-employed coaches, consultants and service providers use the power of story to get a steady stream of ideal clients and increase revenue. In the fastest time possible, and without the overwhelm too. This is because the clients I serve get to live the life they really want to live, with time for themselves and their family, all thanks to the lifestyle freedom business they've grown. This is literally what makes me jump out of bed each morning and look forward to each day! In our upcoming call, I’m going to be creating a custom Money-Making Plan for your business. With the same approach that I followed to build a multiple 6-figure business... CONSISTENTLY. **Many amazing, talented, dedicated clients have booked a Money-Making Messaging Calls (just like you)...** **And gone on to apply the Money-Making Message Plan we created (often with my help)..** I wanted to share some of my client’s success stories, so you can get a sense of what's possible too. **(see videos below** **?****)** And all of these coaches, consultants and service providers started off where you are today… About to join me in creating a Money-Making Messaging Call ? I can't wait to explore how I can help get you more clients while actually working less. P.S. If you have any questions at all, don't hesitate to email me directly at kris@reddoordesigns.com and I'll get back to you asap. *"Just a few weeks after our project completed, it was obvious that our new branding was helping us reach our goals. The sales pipeline was filling up. And we closed a number of deals with clients that were perfectly aligned with the new client profile we had envisioned.*  *December, which is typically a challenging month for us, was the best month in our history. Our revenue will be 40% higher than the previous highest revenue month!"* East Portland Sash are experts in vintage wood window restoration. While they had a great brand foundation, their website was dated and didn’t fully explain their level of expertise. *“Kris helped us clarify our messaging and concentrate on the most important aspects of our brand and marketing material. The result is that our marketing strategies are now unified into a few key pieces that effectively encapsulate our mission.* ***Everything feels more organized and purposeful.*** *As a client, you can trust Kris to expertly guide you though the marketing process, give feedback that will help clarify your message, and give you a product that is incredibly high quality.” — Geoffrey Halsey* The client knew she wanted an entirely new marketing approach that infused her personality into a professional dentistry practice, but struggled to find a creative approach that resonated with her vision.  *“We went from a flat, cookie-cutter website to something that 100% resonates with our team’s personality and professional approach. There is continuity with our practice vision, reputation, team members and relationships with each of our patients.* *The whole process was really fun and positive, and the one-on-one discussions helped me discover who I am and what my business message is. Kris’s superpower is identifying what makes someone unique and expressing that through design and messaging. I made a smart decision to seek her expertise! ” —Dr. Kim Okamura* Loretta is an expert in her field, but her brand message and online presence weren’t representing her level of expertise. She was missing opportunities for new clients by not connecting with her ideal audience. *“After working with Red Door, my online presence is super clear and compelling! My favorite part of the process was creating my brand story and highlighting how I solve my customers problems.*  *Red door delivers an entirely new way of approaching brand strategy & website design. I’m so glad I took the leap of investing in my business and myself. It was so worth it.” —Loretta Soffe* Potential clients would visit PDX’s site, but not engage because the messaging wasn’t connecting. The client was frustrated because prospects weren’t converting to clients.  *“Kris up-leveled my brand and prospect engagement has gone through the roof. My favorite part was the strategic planning around the customer journey and seeing it all come together.*  *If you nod your head when it comes to the StoryBrand approach, engaging with Red Door is the best way to implement that strategy.” —James Adair* The client found himself “stuck” when asked to explain his services. He wanted content that was compelling and messaging that connected with prospective clients. *“I can easily describe my business in a way that really connects with potential clients and gets them excited about working with me.* *My favorite part about working with Kris was strategizing with her about my business and having her reflect it in a clear, concise manner.* *If you are considering hiring Red Door, just write the check--you'll waste more money striking out on failed marketing attempts than you'll ever spend on Red Door Designs.” — Andrew Sherman* The client knew they had a solid business strategy, but their website was outdated and desperately in need of a makeover. They wanted a way to communicate their unique value in an industry where most companies take a cookie-cutter approach to marketing.  *“After working with Red Door, we now have a gorgeous new website I am proud to send people to. I have a clear path to the resources I need for design and website support. I feel such peace of mind knowingI have a website/brand partner for my business.*  *Business is literally booming and I know Red Door has my back.* *If you're on the fence about working with Kris, take the leap! With Kris, you have the chance to powerfully expand on your brand's presence in the digital world. She can break it down for you and make it manageable and achievable.” —Leslie Rugaber* The client had taken the StoryBrand course and saw the value of using its framework to clarify his company’s messaging, but he didn’t have time to develop a website while also managing his business. He wanted a Storybrand Certified Coach who could help him further develop his messaging and make a standout website.  *“We have been getting more web activity and leads than ever before!* *I feel peace of mind knowing that our messaging is finally on target. Now I can be confident that whoever goes to our website will get a clear grasp of who we are and how we can help.* *Kris' extensive experience with StoryBrand really came through in our new website. She’s also a highly competent marketing consultant and web designer. This makes Red Door extremely effective while also affordable.” —Jim Winskill* Pivotal had already onboarded several large corporations and high end clients, but their website and messaging didn’t communicate their industry expertise. They wanted to rebrand their online presence and marketing materials to reflect the dynamic solutions and high end services they provided for top tier clients.  *​"Using StoryBrand, we refined Pivotal’s messaging and made it easy for prospective clients to say yes to a consultation. The result is a fresh and clean cut design that is anything but boring! Top tier clients are prominently displayed on the landing page, and content that makes an emotional connection with their target audience."* Jay is a brilliant industry leader with an amazing story, but his old website was vastly outdated which made him appear unprofessional. He needed a site that could connect with patients as well as dentists who needed his teaching seminars. This presented a unique challenge as we had to appeal to two different target audiences with one main message.  *"Our biggest challenge was that we had no real brand. Our website was antiquated. It was embarrassing and unorganized. Until we met Kris, creating a new website that would help to build our brand seemed daunting. Her enthusiasm, creative mind, and easy step-by-step process made the entire project feel so manageable.* *Now, we are so proud to direct potential patients to the site to show off our office philosophy and brand story. It is visually impactful and engaging. It is a true depiction of what we stand for and what makes us unique.* *Stop settling for mediocre results. Kris will walk you through a very exciting process right to the end. Launch day will be a celebration and you will take pride in the finished product.​" —Dawn Kephart* Dan knew he had a great product, but he wanted it to sizzle. He needed someone who could take his product and turn it into a high end message that would connect in a sophisticated and crowded industry.   *“Kris took my idea and transformed it into a striking website that captures the mood and promise and of my product. Her conviction and fearless vision helped me transform a simple product into a brand that is beautiful and deeply appealing.* *If you are considering Red Door, spend the money. You get what you pay for. Kris is strategic with her ideas and designs. And what she delivers is focused, clean and effective.” —Dan Mages* *A Boutique Design Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Communicate their value to a new and more complex market. - Align their branding with they are today, and who they want to become. - Increase annual revenue. - Logo & Branding - Website Design & Build - Photoshoot Art Direction & Mood Board - Podcast Cover Design & Landing Page - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Website Messaging & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Photoshoot Art Direction - Website Messaging & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Photoshoot Art Direction - Website Messaging & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Photoshoot Art Direction - Website Messaging & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - StoryBrand Strategy - Logo & Brand Refinement - Photoshoot Art Direction - Website Messaging & Design - Lead Magnet Strategy & Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Logo & Brand Refinement - Website Messaging & Design - Photoshoot Art Direction - Lead Magnet Design - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Website Messaging & Design - Photoshoot Art Direction - Lead Magnet - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Logo and Brand Refinement - StoryBrand Strategy - Website Messaging & Design - Lead Magnet Design & Sales Funnel - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Logo and Brand Refinement - StoryBrand Strategy - Website Messaging & Design - Lead Magnet Design & Sales Funnel - Photoshoot Art Direction - Clarify messaging that connects with target audience - Elevate brand visuals and stand out in the industry - Increase revenue & profits - Logo & Brand Creation - Website Messaging & Design - Photoshoot Art Direction - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-hire-a-storybrand-certified-guide ### Title: How much does it cost to hire a StoryBrand certified guide? ### Page ID: 3157163 ### Content: ## Why StoryBrand Is Pure Gold For Small Business Owners ## Who Is A StoryBrand Guide? ## How Much Does It Cost To Hire A StoryBrand Certified Guide? ## How To Know A Certified StoryBrand Guide ## What If StoryBrand Doesn't Work For Me? #### Make Sure You're Using The StoryBrand Framework Correctly #### Communicate Your Message Clearly #### Keep Testing And Tweaking #### Commit to the Same Consistent Brand Message ## Ready to Get Started with a StoryBrand Certified Guide?  # Hey, there! # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! # How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy How much does it cost to hire a StoryBrand certified guide? If you're looking to improve your business, you may have heard of StoryBrand. StoryBrand is a marketing strategy that helps businesses clarify their message and connect with customers.  If you're interested in [learning more about StoryBrand](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/copy), or if you want help implementing it into your business, consider [hiring a certified guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/copy). In this blog post, we will discuss the cost of hiring a StoryBrand certified guide. The beauty of StoryBrand is that it can be used by businesses of any size, in any industry. Whether you're a solopreneur just starting out, or a large company with multiple products and services, StoryBrand can [help you better connect with your target audience](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/free-resources). If you're a small business owner, you need to know about StoryBrand. It's a simple framework that can help you clarify your message and [make a big impact with your marketing](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/copy). Here's why StoryBrand message is pure gold for small business owners: 1\. It helps you clarify your message: Too often, small businesses try to be everything to everyone. As a result, their message gets muddy and confused. StoryBrand can help you focus your message and communicate it in a way that resonates with your ideal customers. 2\. It makes marketing easier (and more effective): When you have a clear message, marketing becomes so much easier (and more effective). With StoryBrand, you'll know exactly what to say (and how to say it) to get your ideal customers' attention. 3\. It's a proven framework: StoryBrand has been used by some of the biggest brands in the world, and it's proven to work. If it can help them, imagine what it can do for your small business. 4\. It's simple to use: The best part about StoryBrand is that it's simple to use. You don't need to be a marketing expert to make it work for you. Just follow the framework and watch your business grow. The brand message guide focuses on communicating the essential parts of your company to your customer. A StoryBrand Guide is someone who can help you clarify your message and make sure it is communicated in a way that resonates with your audience. They are often writers or marketers who are experts in the art of storytelling and are specifically certified by Donald Miller in the StoryBrand Framework.  The core of what a StoryBrand Guide does is help you articulate the unique story that makes your business or product different, and then craft a message that will resonate with your target audience.  [A good StoryBrand message](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/) guide will also be able to help you understand how to use your brand's story in all aspects of your marketing, from website copy to social media posts to email campaigns.  If you're looking to improve your marketing and connect with more customers, hiring a StoryBrand Guide can be a great first step. You might also need a web designer to make the interior website pages, but at Red Door Designs, we craft a StoryBrand website for you that features your clear brand message. The best part? You can have it done in 2.5 hours flat. The price of hiring a StoryBrand Certified Guide varies depending on the size and scope of your project. For example, a small business might pay a few thousand dollars for a one-time consultation, while a larger company might pay upwards of $10,000 for ongoing guidance.  The good news is that you don't have to break the bank to get access to great marketing advice. There are plenty of affordable options out there, including books, online courses, and even free resources like the StoryBrand website.  When it comes to finding the right help for your business, the most important thing is to make sure you're getting quality information from someone who understands your specific needs. With so many options available, there's no reason to settle for anything less. If you're considering working with a StoryBrand guide, it's important to make sure they are certified. Here are a few ways to tell:  1\. Check for the StoryBrand Certification mark on their website.  2\. Ask if they have completed the rigorous two-day StoryBrand workshop and received one-on-one coaching from Donald Miller and the team at StoryBrand.  3\. Verify that they are an authorized StoryBrand guide by emailing certification@storybrand.com. StoryBrand guides who are not certified may still be able to help you clarify your message, but they will not have access to the exclusive training and resources that certified guides do.  If you're not seeing results from using the StoryBrand Framework, there could be a few different reasons why. Maybe you're not following the steps correctly, or maybe you're not communicating your message clearly enough. Either way, here are a few things to consider if you feel like StoryBrand isn't working for you: The StoryBrand Framework is designed to help you craft a clear and concise message that resonates with your target audience. If you're not seeing results, it could be because you're not following the steps correctly. Make sure you're taking the time to really understand each step and how it fits into the bigger picture. Another reason you might not be seeing results is because your message isn't clear enough. Remember, the goal is to craft a message that is simple and easy to understand. If your audience doesn't understand what you're trying to say, they're not going to respond to it. If you're still not seeing results, don't give up! Just keep testing and tweaking until you find a message that resonates with your audience. The beauty of the StoryBrand Framework is that it's flexible enough to be adapted to any brand or business. So keep experimenting until you find something that works for you. A clear and consistent message is essential for effective StoryBrand marketing materials. Whether you're building a lead generator or a sales funnel, or a marketing funnel, it's important that your business message is the same across all channels. If you've been taking a do it yourself approach, it may be time to find a certified guide. StoryBrand certified guides can help you ensure you're implementing the process correctly. Sometimes only a few minor changes are needed, but you need someone with the expertise to point out exactly what is needed to make the StoryBrand approach work for you. At the end of the day, StoryBrand is a powerful tool that can help you craft a clear, concise and same consistent brand message for your business. But like with anything, there is no guarantee of success. The best way to find out if it will work for you is to invest in expert guidance. At Red Door Designs we write sales page and website copy that converts in 2.5 hours flat. Mastering StoryBrand takes time and practice. Use your marketing dollars wisely by investing in the power of the StoryBrand seven-part framework. The marketing world is full of options for, but with StoryBrand, you know what you are getting. Ready to transform your website copy? Check out [StoryBrand Website Copy That Sells — in 2.5 Hours Flat!](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/copy) I'm Kris Jones, and I'm so happy we've connected. Most business owners struggle when writing for their own business. My streamlined process gets them copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so they can double revenue and stay in their zone of genius. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. **Kris:** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast. I am beyond delighted today to have my dear friend, my mentor, my coach, the brilliant Neil Williams. She has been instrumental in my entrepreneurial journey in helping me simplify my business and really, uh, target my focus. So I'm really doing the work that I'm put on the planet to do, that I am, um, Using my greatest gifts with every one of my clients. And before we hopped on the call, um, Neil and I were talking about how \[00:01:00\] she has helped me in so many ways. So I'm going to fill you in on that, uh, today. And really, we're going to talk about how to simplify our lives as business owners, how to do, how to set ourself up with tools and strategies and mindsets that really allow us to do more of the work that we love and less of the marketing and the minutiae and the to do's that come with being a business owner. So um, Neil, welcome. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. It's so wonderful to be here. I love chatting with you and that was quite the introduction. Hopefully the show lives up to that. **Kris:** I know it will. I know it will. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. **Neill:** So I'm a productivity coach, mindset coach. So I help, um, high achieving people in corporate or our high achieving entrepreneurs, who I'm sure there are many listening to the show really simplify work less. But achieve \[00:02:00\] their goals, what they want. I really don't, I, this is kind of like the thing that I did in the corporate world that I took into starting my business was proving to myself that the amount of time that I spent doing something did not. It doesn't mean success or failure. It really is, it's a different equation. **Kris:** What's what's the situation that comes to mind when you think about that? Like when you had that aha, like, Oh my gosh, I hardly spent any time on this and I'm getting much greater results than when I used to spend a lot more time on it. What? Give me, give me an example. **Neill:** Well, it started with when I was in the corporate worlds. Um, and this has been 15 years ago. Yeah, my son is 15. So about 15 years ago, had a baby. I was, um, partner track in a firm. I was an actuary. If you don't know what that is, you can Google it. It's a numbers job. Nobody knows what it is, but in any case, I was working 60 plus hours per week. That wasn't the way that I wanted to, um, have my life structured in terms of having the time that I wanted to be with my son as a mom. So I started really diving into this whole \[00:03:00\] productivity time management thing, and I was like, if I could just work like 30 hours per week, I feel like I'd have like the right balance. And so the way that I approached it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to work less. It was, I'm going to still produce the same amount, but I'm going to figure out how to do it in less time. And I slowly over a little bit of time, probably took me a year, maybe two years max, I scaled all the way back to 30 hours. And I was, but I was producing the same amount of, not more as anyone else in the company. And so I was like, wow, this is really powerful. I feel like other people should know this. **Neill:** so then I started my own business on the side to help other people do similar things. Yes. **Kris:** Got it. Okay. And so did anybody in that you are working with know that you are dramatically like being more efficient and working less? Okay. **Neill:** Yeah. It wasn't well respected. Um, I guess well received in the world that I was in because. Working overtime was like this badge \[00:04:00\] of honor. It was like, you're at the top of the food chain if you have the highest number of overtime hours. And for a long time, I bought into that. They, at our team meetings, they would put up a chart and it would show everybody's overtime hours for the like year to date. And I was always like, number one, number two. And I was like, so damn proud of that. **Kris:** it's so telling of corporate culture that there's this like a wall of like accolades based on amount of overtime hours and not at all related to productivity, right? **Neill:** It was so silly when I, once I like saw it, I was like, this is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. It was like, we were actually demotivating any productive efforts because You're, you're gonna, if overtime is the answer is the goal, then you're going to inflate everything that you do and make it take longer, which is the opposite of efficiency. So it didn't make sense to me. So, but that's the way that culture was. That's it. And it's fine. It can stay that way. I was not willing to stay there \[00:05:00\] and continue to be involved in that machine. **Kris:** Right. Right. It's so amazing that you had that awareness. And I love, I didn't realize that the timing of all this happened around the time that you had your son. Yeah. Because the way that you helped me is when I had my son and I was feeling that same sense of like overwhelm, um, working more is going to get me more results. And you totally shifted that perspective for me. But the gift of having a child I think is so huge in for women helping us and men too, I'm sure. But like helping us really. Realize, like, we actually don't have the capacity for operating in this way anymore, and nor do we want to. Right. **Neill:** And it's not necessary. That's the thing that I think we think that, um, we have to in order to achieve whatever success metric that we're going for. \[00:06:00\] And that, that alone changed my life because I realized. The hard work plus amount of time does not, is not the only formula for success. It might work for some people, but it's not the only one. I don't think it works for most working moms. Most working moms don't want to be on that kind of trajectory. **Neill:** nearly impossible to sustain for long periods of time. **Kris:** Truly, truly. So what did you, what were some of the initial things that you, that, that started working for you then that you're still implementing now? Yeah. **Neill:** So I worked on my brain. Um, so we can talk about a couple of mindset things, which was the most powerful piece because I didn't know that I can't work on my brain or think differently about things. That's the reason I got certified as a coach and then certified as a master coach and went down that whole route. But there were also tactical things that I did as well. So, I mean, I started really, my tendency is once I'm interested in something is I just \[00:07:00\] go research the heck out of it. Like I consume everything I can about it. I try to educate myself and then I start applying the things that I learned. So there was this one principle that told me that. We as humans have this tendency to expand any activity to fill the amount of time that we give it. And I was like, wait a minute, if that's true, then I can just set the time. And then I can figure out how to get the thing done in the amount of time that I want to spend on it. That was like such a huge shift. If it felt like. Um, really revelatory, even though it's not a new idea. Um, so I started simply like putting things on my calendar in time blocks and not just like work on client, whatever it was, get X done. And so that every time block had something where I was accomplishing something. **Neill:** that felt great because I didn't, I no longer was I leaving my day feeling like. I sat here for 12 hours and I don't even know what I did. It was like, oh, I got this done and this done and this done, this done, this done. I could literally see the work accomplished. So that was like \[00:08:00\] the biggest, like probably the most powerful first tactical strategy that I used. Um, and then I would say the other thing that I learned is that. Whatever we decide is true. That's what we're going to build evidence for. We're going to have the experience of that. So in my mind, the thought that ran rampant over and over was, there's not enough time. I can't get it all done. All those flavors of thoughts. And I was like, okay. So I'm actually creating that experience for myself because I'm believing that to be true. But what if I just tried to believe something else is true? Like **Neill:** always get everything done. I have plenty of time. So I started just practicing those ideas in my mind. And that is the experience that I started creating. **Neill:** So I would say those two are both very, very powerful and kind of set me on the trajectory towards, you know, shrinking back my work week, um, by 50%. **Kris:** Incredible. Incredible. And then at what point, you know, you, you started kind of a side gig with coaching. At what point did you decide, just decide, \[00:09:00\] I'm, I'm taking the leap. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fully self employed. **Neill:** Well, I'm pretty, um, I'm not really great at taking risks. So I had my side gig for quite some time. I was doing both, but the way that I did my side gig was I had scaled my work week back to 30 hours. And I was like, okay, I'm going to take 10 hours for my business. I'm going to build my business in 10 hours a week. So that's what I did for probably three years. And then it was to the point where. There was enough, um, kind of disagreement between myself and the partners, um, in this firm that I gave my partnership and we decided to part ways. The biggest of those was they decided that I couldn't do both, that I, it was a conflict of interest for me to do both. And so I was like, Hey, Neil, this is a. This is a turning point. Are you going to vote for yourself or do the thing that feels safe? And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try doing my own thing and just see if I can make it work. And so that was, like I said, about three years in. **Kris:** And you are, you are working kind of for, for your coaching business, you are working. \[00:10:00\] 10 hours a week. And that reminds me of kind of the theme of the way you approach. Yeah, entrepreneurship, right? And that I'm sure that that has, um, gone up and down over the years. But what's been your journey? Because I think you're back to 10 hours per week. **Neill:** that that's like my maximum workweek at this point. Perfect. Yeah, so I left the corporate world and then I scaled up my work week to about 20, maybe sometimes 25 hours per week, just as a solopreneur, Um, this last year over a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of health stuff going on. And so I started ratcheting that back last year. I was maybe about 15 hours per week this year. I'm somewhere between seven and 10 hours per week. And it's done very strategically. Um, and with intention behind it, because this is a year that I want to just like take care of. All the rest of my health things, and I have a lot of other things going on. I'm, I'm \[00:11:00\] partially homeschooling my son and you know, there's just other things that I want to do in my life, so it feels like the right fit for right now. **Kris:** Do you ever find yourself kind of dipping your toe into wanting to do a little bit more, or are you just so skilled at this point that you don't have that urge? **Neill:** I really don't have that urge anymore. In fact, the thought that goes through my brain is like, I wonder how I could do this in five hours or I wonder how I like it's just like it's a game that I've played with my brain for so many years like literally almost 15 years at this point **Neill:** just like it's like a little challenge that I give to myself so yeah I don't really maybe there will be a point where I want to scale it up. And for me, that would just mean taking on more clients, but I feel really content where I'm at right now. **Kris:** That's so lovely. So tell me, um, share with me how you work with your clients. Like somebody will come to you. What are they struggling with? And then how do you actually work with them over time? So right now I am only working with folks one on one, um, because that's what feels \[00:12:00\] really good to me. And we work together for a minimum of six months. Better a year. Um, typically someone will come to me like I onboarded a client just a few weeks ago, and this person has an online business. And wants to scale back his work week from like 40 plus hours down to 20. I'm like, cool, let's do that. So that will like, and just set an initial goal. And then we work together every week for that period of time. And it's partially mindset coaching. It's partially tools and tactics and strategies for how to shrink things back. He'll be at that 20 to 25 hours. And in fact, he's, he's at least 50 percent of the way now he's one of those, like you, you tell me what to do. I'm, I'm a really good implementer. I'll just do it. And so that's amazing. Those are the best. I know. That's super fun for a coach because you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like this instant gratification of so many like little wins that they're getting so quickly. Um, so yeah, so that's what it looks like. I, \[00:13:00\] I coach on everything. It's not just time. It's interesting because people think it's time management and productivity, but it's a whole host of other things. There's so many psychological factors that go into it. A lot of, um, nervous system work, mindset work, cognitive behavior therapy, all kinds of disciplines I bring into the fold. **Kris:** There's so many layers there, right? Like there's, there's so much, um, underneath the busyness, right? That, that's like, it could be trauma related or could be just sitting with difficult pain that you don't want to feel. Um, and so you kind of have to, Be kind of a partially, uh, like a healer. Like you're not doing the healing for them, but you're like really facilitating them to go underneath why they're creating such busyness in their life. **Neill:** It really is deeper. I think people mistakenly think that productivity and time management is kind of \[00:14:00\] like a surface level thing, but if you really want to have a beautiful relationship with time, it requires that deeper work. And as a coach, I really. feel like I, I am in some sense of healer, but more so in the sense of, I facilitate my clients coming to understand themselves better. And what that means is understanding why they do what they do, because it always makes sense. Once we figure out the why behind it. And once you have that, it just releases all kinds of shame and judgment and there's so much clarity and calm that comes through that process. **Kris:** What do you find this guy was a model client, but what do you find when clients have resistance or they're having difficulty implementing or getting over those hurdles? What are they? What are they struggling with the most and how do you hold their hand through? the difficulty? **Neill:** Well, when, when that happens, which is more often the case, there is deeper work that has to be done. So it's some sort of low lying belief system that they picked up. A lot of the stuff \[00:15:00\] that we discover in coaching, it has happened during childhood or some really pivotal experiences. And part of my job is to help my clients connect the dots to how that. It's creating this pattern of behavior or this level of resistance or what's going on. So that has to do with like nervous system work. It has to do with understanding, you know, I brought in, um, some of my background in economics, um, because that's a lot of what describes and explains our subconscious thinking, which is what drives like 95 percent of what we do. And so it's a matter of. Kind of peeling back those layers and figuring out why you're resisting or why you're struggling with making this new habit. There's always a reason. You always make **Kris:** sense. Always. Yep, completely. Oh, that's such incredible work. And you've, you've recently written a book. Is that right? **Neill:** Yes. Tell us about it. Yeah, so it's called How to Thrive on a 10 Hour Workweek. \[00:16:00\] And it really, even though it has, you know, like it has the nice little markety title. It really is about examining our relationship with time. That's really what I hope people are taking away from it is a way to approach and, um, really create a beautiful relationship with time because there's so much stress and anxiety and worry about this thing we have made up called time. And I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we can feel really balanced and at ease. Um, and feel like we're accomplishing what we want, especially the working moms. I really wrote it for them because they have so many things on their plate and there's so much societal pressure for what they accomplish. **Kris:** That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience about? Something that you want them, like a takeaway that you want them to have, whether it be about time or entrepreneurship, what would you like to share? **Neill:** Yeah, I think, um, the biggest \[00:17:00\] thing that I would say is really examine your belief systems around time. If, if time is something you want to work with, which I am biased, of course, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor that literally can change your life. And if that's something that you want to tackle and you want to do it on your own, the best place to start is to really find what you believe about time. And our belief systems come from four different places. They come from what happened in our childhood, what our teachers, our parents, those influential adults taught us about time, what we took away from their models. Um, it comes from our peers. Um, colleagues, um, coaches, therapists, doctors, those influential things. And in this day and age for you and I, Kris, our children, especially social media influence. I mean, what you see on Instagram or Tik TOK or YouTube, YouTube's my son's thing. Um, it literally is shaping the belief systems of the people who are consuming it. So not to, I'm not like fear mongering. I'm just \[00:18:00\] saying that is the way that our nervous system, um, creates belief systems is the inputs that we receive. **Neill:** third thing. And then the fourth one is something that is only available to humans, which is our choice. What we decide to be true. You decide that you don't have enough time. That's what you will experience. If you decide that, of course you have enough time. That's what you will experience. And my favorite belief, this is something that, um, my assistant Kelly and I both geek out on, but. I mean, we message each other with ways that this has actually happened in our lives. We both believe that we create time and that's a really empowering way to think about it versus being at, um, you know, being an antagonist with time. **Kris:** Right. You're not a victim to time going by too quickly or not having enough. You're really, you're really the guide and time. Time is the hero and you are the guide. That's right. I **Neill:** love how \[00:19:00\] you just took it back to StoryBrand. That was brilliant. **Kris:** So before we wrap up, I do want to share just my personal experience of getting to work with you because you have been such an instrumental guide in my journey as an entrepreneur. And, um, for my audience, I just want to share Neil really helped me shape the offer that the way that I work with my clients. And she encouraged me and gave me clarity and The reality is this idea that as entrepreneurs were stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the, of the bottle, no one's immune to that. Even me, I, I provide such clarity for my clients, but I run my own business and I'm very close to it. And sometimes I need a brilliant coach and outside perspective to read the label of my bottle. And Neil has been that person for me. Many times now and in such profound ways \[00:20:00\] and she helped me and encouraged me to kick off my current offer, um, which was originally called copy that sells and it's evolved over time into the signature story selling system and it's, it's been such a gift to simplify the way I help my clients in one deep, profound way. I don't. I don't work with my clients in, in any other way and narrowing my offerings to one offering was the biggest way that I was able to kind of take the reins of my business and really have boundaries around my client work, my time involved. And it was like, the words don't really capture the, uh, the, way that it helped me and the way that it changed my life. And then a couple of years later, I, I've been working one on one with clients and I was loving it. And I was getting a lot of advice \[00:21:00\] from coaches and other. Other leaders, uh, other entrepreneur leaders and everyone was like, scale, scale, scale, group program, group program. You've got to do this. Like you've proof of concept one, one on one. Now let's expand it and grow it and multiply your impact and multiply your revenue. Honestly, I love working one on one with my clients, and that's what energizes me, but I thought, okay, the way to reach more people is to I created a group program and so of course I reached out to Neal and of course she was willing to have a power call with me and I ran it by her, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to scale. I'm going to do this group program. And I said, but here's the deal. I, I'm really resistant to this idea. Like I love my one on one work and I, I don't know if doing this work in a group format is going to be as effective. I, I don't know if this is like a \[00:22:00\] mindset thing that I need to overcome or, or what it is. And, but I need you to help me overcome that barrier and move forward with this group program. And she said these words, which we'll always remember. She said. Be careful what you build because you don't want to build it and then look back and wish you hadn't and And I realized in that moment that she was gently guiding me to listen to my own heart and listen to my own knowing and my own guidance and she just Brought me back to that and validated what was really true and right for me, and I have never looked back I was like, oh, I'm back on my path. I'm I know what I'm doing. I mean, I'm I I'm doubling down on one on one work it's the most fulfilling and it's it gets the greatest results for my clients and And here I am still loving my work still feeling super aligned with my purpose and \[00:23:00\] And being abundantly a compensated for the work as well, which is such a gift as well. So I just want to say thank you for the ways that you personally helped me. And it is such an honor to get to have you here today to bring your brilliance. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. I also hope everyone who heard what Kris just said realized that the reason that that worked is that Kris just went back and listened to herself, which is what a lot of coaching is, is bringing you back to yourself and listening to yourself and letting all of what everyone else is saying, even though it's so well meaning and well intended, We have to listen to what's true to us, and I really believe that's why you're so successful and why you're helping so many people is because you are staying true to you. **Kris:** Yeah, and so are you. Thank you. All right, well, Nia, where can my audience find you? **Neill:** So they could visit my website at, uh, www. neilwilliams. com. They \[00:24:00\] could go listen to a podcast if they're interested in doing some time management, productivity kind of mindset work. We have, I think we're at almost 300 episodes. So lots of things to choose from it's called success genius. Or if you just want to reach out with a question, you can email me at neil at neilwilliams. com. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/what-is-a-storybrand-brandscript ### Title: What is a StoryBrand BrandScript? ### Page ID: 3157287 ### Content: # What is a StoryBrand BrandScript? ## What Is A StoryBrand BrandScript? ## The 7 Elements of a StoryBrand BrandScript ## Core Elements Good Storytelling for Your Brand ## Keys to Creating a Persuasive Message ## Things To Avoid When You Are Writing Your BrandScript ## What Can I Use StoryBrand BrandScript For? ## Where Can I Find Someone to Help Me With My BrandScript? ## How Red Door Designs Can Help your Grow Your Business #### **Clear Words + Clean Design + Human Psychology = More Profits** # Hey, there! # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! # How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy If you're looking to create a powerful, compelling brand for your business, you need to start with your brand's story. In this blog post, we'll discuss what a StoryBrand BrandScript is and how you can use it to create an effective branding strategy for your business. The StoryBrand BrandScript is a marketing framework popularized by Donald Miller, designed to help businesses clarify their marketing message, and connect with their customers in a way that resonates with them. The BrandScript is based on the idea that customers are the heroes of their own stories, and businesses should position themselves as the guide who can help them achieve their goals. The BrandScript is composed of seven elements: a character, a problem, a guide, a plan, a call to action, a failure, and a success. Each of these StoryBrand elements helps businesses create a narrative that speaks directly to their customers' needs and desires. By identifying the customer as the hero and the business as the guide, the BrandScript helps businesses create a clear and compelling message to ideal customers that differentiates them from their competitors and inspires customers to take action. Overall, the StoryBrand BrandScript is a powerful tool for businesses looking to connect with their customers and create a meaningful impact in their lives. By understanding the principles of storytelling and applying them to their marketing efforts, businesses can bring in more customers by creating a narrative that resonates with their audience and helps them achieve their goals. Every brand has a story to tell, and in order to connect with consumers on a deeper level, that story needs to be told well. As a business owner, here are the core elements of good storytelling to keep in mind that will help your brand messaging connect with your audience. The StoryBrand framework offers 3 core elements for how to structure a compelling story with a main character and a clear beginning, middle, and end. According to the StoryBrand method, a good story should have the following elements: The key to creating a compelling story is to make the hero's journey relatable to your audience and to position your business as the guide who can help them achieve their goals. The StoryBrand framework emphasizes the importance of keeping the focus on the customer and their needs, rather than on the business itself. By following this structure and incorporating the other elements of the StoryBrand BrandScript, businesses can create a powerful and persuasive narrative that connects with their customers and inspires them to take action. In addition to the three core elements of a good story (introduction, conflict, and resolution), the StoryBrand framework includes several other elements that are crucial for creating a persuasive narrative. These elements include: By incorporating these elements into your messaging, you can create a powerful and persuasive story that resonates with your audience, calls them to action, and inspires them to take action. Your brand script should not read like a sales pitch. Instead, focus on creating great story and a narrative that will resonate with your audience and help them understand your brand. Your brand's communication and script should be accessible to everyone, so avoid using jargon or industry-specific language. Instead, focus on using language that is easy to understand and relatable. Keep your BrandScript concise and to the point. Remember, you want your audience to remember your brand, not fall asleep reading your script! Your brand script should not only be informative, but also actionable. Include call-to-actions throughout your script so that your audience knows what they can do next. Before you publish your brand script, make sure to proofread it for any errors or typos. You want your audience to take you seriously, so don't let careless mistakes ruin your credibility. Branding through storytelling can be an incredibly effective way to connect with your target market and build a loyal following. But it's not always easy to get it right. If you're not sure where to start, consider working with a StoryBrand certified agency who can help you craft a compelling brand story that resonates with your audience.If you' If you're looking for someone to help you with your BrandScript and marketing messages, the best place to start is by contacting a StoryBrand certified marketing agency. Luckily, you've found one right here! At Red Door Designs we use the StoryBrand framework to create websites & sales pages that help you stand out as an expert in your field. I can help you up-level your game with marketing strategies backed by brain science, so you can attract ideal clients and grow your business with ease. As a business owner myself, I get how overwhelming it can feel to navigate a website or sales page revamp. Over the last 20 years, I’ve helped hundreds of business owners just like you. And you know what I've discovered? A crazy simple, but effective formula for success: ​ I'm Kris Jones, and I'm so happy we've connected. Most business owners struggle when writing for their own business. My streamlined process gets them copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so they can double revenue and stay in their zone of genius. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. **Kris:** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast. I am beyond delighted today to have my dear friend, my mentor, my coach, the brilliant Neil Williams. She has been instrumental in my entrepreneurial journey in helping me simplify my business and really, uh, target my focus. So I'm really doing the work that I'm put on the planet to do, that I am, um, Using my greatest gifts with every one of my clients. And before we hopped on the call, um, Neil and I were talking about how \[00:01:00\] she has helped me in so many ways. So I'm going to fill you in on that, uh, today. And really, we're going to talk about how to simplify our lives as business owners, how to do, how to set ourself up with tools and strategies and mindsets that really allow us to do more of the work that we love and less of the marketing and the minutiae and the to do's that come with being a business owner. So um, Neil, welcome. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. It's so wonderful to be here. I love chatting with you and that was quite the introduction. Hopefully the show lives up to that. **Kris:** I know it will. I know it will. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. **Neill:** So I'm a productivity coach, mindset coach. So I help, um, high achieving people in corporate or our high achieving entrepreneurs, who I'm sure there are many listening to the show really simplify work less. But achieve \[00:02:00\] their goals, what they want. I really don't, I, this is kind of like the thing that I did in the corporate world that I took into starting my business was proving to myself that the amount of time that I spent doing something did not. It doesn't mean success or failure. It really is, it's a different equation. **Kris:** What's what's the situation that comes to mind when you think about that? Like when you had that aha, like, Oh my gosh, I hardly spent any time on this and I'm getting much greater results than when I used to spend a lot more time on it. What? Give me, give me an example. **Neill:** Well, it started with when I was in the corporate worlds. Um, and this has been 15 years ago. Yeah, my son is 15. So about 15 years ago, had a baby. I was, um, partner track in a firm. I was an actuary. If you don't know what that is, you can Google it. It's a numbers job. Nobody knows what it is, but in any case, I was working 60 plus hours per week. That wasn't the way that I wanted to, um, have my life structured in terms of having the time that I wanted to be with my son as a mom. So I started really diving into this whole \[00:03:00\] productivity time management thing, and I was like, if I could just work like 30 hours per week, I feel like I'd have like the right balance. And so the way that I approached it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to work less. It was, I'm going to still produce the same amount, but I'm going to figure out how to do it in less time. And I slowly over a little bit of time, probably took me a year, maybe two years max, I scaled all the way back to 30 hours. And I was, but I was producing the same amount of, not more as anyone else in the company. And so I was like, wow, this is really powerful. I feel like other people should know this. **Neill:** so then I started my own business on the side to help other people do similar things. Yes. **Kris:** Got it. Okay. And so did anybody in that you are working with know that you are dramatically like being more efficient and working less? Okay. **Neill:** Yeah. It wasn't well respected. Um, I guess well received in the world that I was in because. Working overtime was like this badge \[00:04:00\] of honor. It was like, you're at the top of the food chain if you have the highest number of overtime hours. And for a long time, I bought into that. They, at our team meetings, they would put up a chart and it would show everybody's overtime hours for the like year to date. And I was always like, number one, number two. And I was like, so damn proud of that. **Kris:** it's so telling of corporate culture that there's this like a wall of like accolades based on amount of overtime hours and not at all related to productivity, right? **Neill:** It was so silly when I, once I like saw it, I was like, this is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. It was like, we were actually demotivating any productive efforts because You're, you're gonna, if overtime is the answer is the goal, then you're going to inflate everything that you do and make it take longer, which is the opposite of efficiency. So it didn't make sense to me. So, but that's the way that culture was. That's it. And it's fine. It can stay that way. I was not willing to stay there \[00:05:00\] and continue to be involved in that machine. **Kris:** Right. Right. It's so amazing that you had that awareness. And I love, I didn't realize that the timing of all this happened around the time that you had your son. Yeah. Because the way that you helped me is when I had my son and I was feeling that same sense of like overwhelm, um, working more is going to get me more results. And you totally shifted that perspective for me. But the gift of having a child I think is so huge in for women helping us and men too, I'm sure. But like helping us really. Realize, like, we actually don't have the capacity for operating in this way anymore, and nor do we want to. Right. **Neill:** And it's not necessary. That's the thing that I think we think that, um, we have to in order to achieve whatever success metric that we're going for. \[00:06:00\] And that, that alone changed my life because I realized. The hard work plus amount of time does not, is not the only formula for success. It might work for some people, but it's not the only one. I don't think it works for most working moms. Most working moms don't want to be on that kind of trajectory. **Neill:** nearly impossible to sustain for long periods of time. **Kris:** Truly, truly. So what did you, what were some of the initial things that you, that, that started working for you then that you're still implementing now? Yeah. **Neill:** So I worked on my brain. Um, so we can talk about a couple of mindset things, which was the most powerful piece because I didn't know that I can't work on my brain or think differently about things. That's the reason I got certified as a coach and then certified as a master coach and went down that whole route. But there were also tactical things that I did as well. So, I mean, I started really, my tendency is once I'm interested in something is I just \[00:07:00\] go research the heck out of it. Like I consume everything I can about it. I try to educate myself and then I start applying the things that I learned. So there was this one principle that told me that. We as humans have this tendency to expand any activity to fill the amount of time that we give it. And I was like, wait a minute, if that's true, then I can just set the time. And then I can figure out how to get the thing done in the amount of time that I want to spend on it. That was like such a huge shift. If it felt like. Um, really revelatory, even though it's not a new idea. Um, so I started simply like putting things on my calendar in time blocks and not just like work on client, whatever it was, get X done. And so that every time block had something where I was accomplishing something. **Neill:** that felt great because I didn't, I no longer was I leaving my day feeling like. I sat here for 12 hours and I don't even know what I did. It was like, oh, I got this done and this done and this done, this done, this done. I could literally see the work accomplished. So that was like \[00:08:00\] the biggest, like probably the most powerful first tactical strategy that I used. Um, and then I would say the other thing that I learned is that. Whatever we decide is true. That's what we're going to build evidence for. We're going to have the experience of that. So in my mind, the thought that ran rampant over and over was, there's not enough time. I can't get it all done. All those flavors of thoughts. And I was like, okay. So I'm actually creating that experience for myself because I'm believing that to be true. But what if I just tried to believe something else is true? Like **Neill:** always get everything done. I have plenty of time. So I started just practicing those ideas in my mind. And that is the experience that I started creating. **Neill:** So I would say those two are both very, very powerful and kind of set me on the trajectory towards, you know, shrinking back my work week, um, by 50%. **Kris:** Incredible. Incredible. And then at what point, you know, you, you started kind of a side gig with coaching. At what point did you decide, just decide, \[00:09:00\] I'm, I'm taking the leap. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fully self employed. **Neill:** Well, I'm pretty, um, I'm not really great at taking risks. So I had my side gig for quite some time. I was doing both, but the way that I did my side gig was I had scaled my work week back to 30 hours. And I was like, okay, I'm going to take 10 hours for my business. I'm going to build my business in 10 hours a week. So that's what I did for probably three years. And then it was to the point where. There was enough, um, kind of disagreement between myself and the partners, um, in this firm that I gave my partnership and we decided to part ways. The biggest of those was they decided that I couldn't do both, that I, it was a conflict of interest for me to do both. And so I was like, Hey, Neil, this is a. This is a turning point. Are you going to vote for yourself or do the thing that feels safe? And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try doing my own thing and just see if I can make it work. And so that was, like I said, about three years in. **Kris:** And you are, you are working kind of for, for your coaching business, you are working. \[00:10:00\] 10 hours a week. And that reminds me of kind of the theme of the way you approach. Yeah, entrepreneurship, right? And that I'm sure that that has, um, gone up and down over the years. But what's been your journey? Because I think you're back to 10 hours per week. **Neill:** that that's like my maximum workweek at this point. Perfect. Yeah, so I left the corporate world and then I scaled up my work week to about 20, maybe sometimes 25 hours per week, just as a solopreneur, Um, this last year over a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of health stuff going on. And so I started ratcheting that back last year. I was maybe about 15 hours per week this year. I'm somewhere between seven and 10 hours per week. And it's done very strategically. Um, and with intention behind it, because this is a year that I want to just like take care of. All the rest of my health things, and I have a lot of other things going on. I'm, I'm \[00:11:00\] partially homeschooling my son and you know, there's just other things that I want to do in my life, so it feels like the right fit for right now. **Kris:** Do you ever find yourself kind of dipping your toe into wanting to do a little bit more, or are you just so skilled at this point that you don't have that urge? **Neill:** I really don't have that urge anymore. In fact, the thought that goes through my brain is like, I wonder how I could do this in five hours or I wonder how I like it's just like it's a game that I've played with my brain for so many years like literally almost 15 years at this point **Neill:** just like it's like a little challenge that I give to myself so yeah I don't really maybe there will be a point where I want to scale it up. And for me, that would just mean taking on more clients, but I feel really content where I'm at right now. **Kris:** That's so lovely. So tell me, um, share with me how you work with your clients. Like somebody will come to you. What are they struggling with? And then how do you actually work with them over time? So right now I am only working with folks one on one, um, because that's what feels \[00:12:00\] really good to me. And we work together for a minimum of six months. Better a year. Um, typically someone will come to me like I onboarded a client just a few weeks ago, and this person has an online business. And wants to scale back his work week from like 40 plus hours down to 20. I'm like, cool, let's do that. So that will like, and just set an initial goal. And then we work together every week for that period of time. And it's partially mindset coaching. It's partially tools and tactics and strategies for how to shrink things back. He'll be at that 20 to 25 hours. And in fact, he's, he's at least 50 percent of the way now he's one of those, like you, you tell me what to do. I'm, I'm a really good implementer. I'll just do it. And so that's amazing. Those are the best. I know. That's super fun for a coach because you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like this instant gratification of so many like little wins that they're getting so quickly. Um, so yeah, so that's what it looks like. I, \[00:13:00\] I coach on everything. It's not just time. It's interesting because people think it's time management and productivity, but it's a whole host of other things. There's so many psychological factors that go into it. A lot of, um, nervous system work, mindset work, cognitive behavior therapy, all kinds of disciplines I bring into the fold. **Kris:** There's so many layers there, right? Like there's, there's so much, um, underneath the busyness, right? That, that's like, it could be trauma related or could be just sitting with difficult pain that you don't want to feel. Um, and so you kind of have to, Be kind of a partially, uh, like a healer. Like you're not doing the healing for them, but you're like really facilitating them to go underneath why they're creating such busyness in their life. **Neill:** It really is deeper. I think people mistakenly think that productivity and time management is kind of \[00:14:00\] like a surface level thing, but if you really want to have a beautiful relationship with time, it requires that deeper work. And as a coach, I really. feel like I, I am in some sense of healer, but more so in the sense of, I facilitate my clients coming to understand themselves better. And what that means is understanding why they do what they do, because it always makes sense. Once we figure out the why behind it. And once you have that, it just releases all kinds of shame and judgment and there's so much clarity and calm that comes through that process. **Kris:** What do you find this guy was a model client, but what do you find when clients have resistance or they're having difficulty implementing or getting over those hurdles? What are they? What are they struggling with the most and how do you hold their hand through? the difficulty? **Neill:** Well, when, when that happens, which is more often the case, there is deeper work that has to be done. So it's some sort of low lying belief system that they picked up. A lot of the stuff \[00:15:00\] that we discover in coaching, it has happened during childhood or some really pivotal experiences. And part of my job is to help my clients connect the dots to how that. It's creating this pattern of behavior or this level of resistance or what's going on. So that has to do with like nervous system work. It has to do with understanding, you know, I brought in, um, some of my background in economics, um, because that's a lot of what describes and explains our subconscious thinking, which is what drives like 95 percent of what we do. And so it's a matter of. Kind of peeling back those layers and figuring out why you're resisting or why you're struggling with making this new habit. There's always a reason. You always make **Kris:** sense. Always. Yep, completely. Oh, that's such incredible work. And you've, you've recently written a book. Is that right? **Neill:** Yes. Tell us about it. Yeah, so it's called How to Thrive on a 10 Hour Workweek. \[00:16:00\] And it really, even though it has, you know, like it has the nice little markety title. It really is about examining our relationship with time. That's really what I hope people are taking away from it is a way to approach and, um, really create a beautiful relationship with time because there's so much stress and anxiety and worry about this thing we have made up called time. And I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we can feel really balanced and at ease. Um, and feel like we're accomplishing what we want, especially the working moms. I really wrote it for them because they have so many things on their plate and there's so much societal pressure for what they accomplish. **Kris:** That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience about? Something that you want them, like a takeaway that you want them to have, whether it be about time or entrepreneurship, what would you like to share? **Neill:** Yeah, I think, um, the biggest \[00:17:00\] thing that I would say is really examine your belief systems around time. If, if time is something you want to work with, which I am biased, of course, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor that literally can change your life. And if that's something that you want to tackle and you want to do it on your own, the best place to start is to really find what you believe about time. And our belief systems come from four different places. They come from what happened in our childhood, what our teachers, our parents, those influential adults taught us about time, what we took away from their models. Um, it comes from our peers. Um, colleagues, um, coaches, therapists, doctors, those influential things. And in this day and age for you and I, Kris, our children, especially social media influence. I mean, what you see on Instagram or Tik TOK or YouTube, YouTube's my son's thing. Um, it literally is shaping the belief systems of the people who are consuming it. So not to, I'm not like fear mongering. I'm just \[00:18:00\] saying that is the way that our nervous system, um, creates belief systems is the inputs that we receive. **Neill:** third thing. And then the fourth one is something that is only available to humans, which is our choice. What we decide to be true. You decide that you don't have enough time. That's what you will experience. If you decide that, of course you have enough time. That's what you will experience. And my favorite belief, this is something that, um, my assistant Kelly and I both geek out on, but. I mean, we message each other with ways that this has actually happened in our lives. We both believe that we create time and that's a really empowering way to think about it versus being at, um, you know, being an antagonist with time. **Kris:** Right. You're not a victim to time going by too quickly or not having enough. You're really, you're really the guide and time. Time is the hero and you are the guide. That's right. I **Neill:** love how \[00:19:00\] you just took it back to StoryBrand. That was brilliant. **Kris:** So before we wrap up, I do want to share just my personal experience of getting to work with you because you have been such an instrumental guide in my journey as an entrepreneur. And, um, for my audience, I just want to share Neil really helped me shape the offer that the way that I work with my clients. And she encouraged me and gave me clarity and The reality is this idea that as entrepreneurs were stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the, of the bottle, no one's immune to that. Even me, I, I provide such clarity for my clients, but I run my own business and I'm very close to it. And sometimes I need a brilliant coach and outside perspective to read the label of my bottle. And Neil has been that person for me. Many times now and in such profound ways \[00:20:00\] and she helped me and encouraged me to kick off my current offer, um, which was originally called copy that sells and it's evolved over time into the signature story selling system and it's, it's been such a gift to simplify the way I help my clients in one deep, profound way. I don't. I don't work with my clients in, in any other way and narrowing my offerings to one offering was the biggest way that I was able to kind of take the reins of my business and really have boundaries around my client work, my time involved. And it was like, the words don't really capture the, uh, the, way that it helped me and the way that it changed my life. And then a couple of years later, I, I've been working one on one with clients and I was loving it. And I was getting a lot of advice \[00:21:00\] from coaches and other. Other leaders, uh, other entrepreneur leaders and everyone was like, scale, scale, scale, group program, group program. You've got to do this. Like you've proof of concept one, one on one. Now let's expand it and grow it and multiply your impact and multiply your revenue. Honestly, I love working one on one with my clients, and that's what energizes me, but I thought, okay, the way to reach more people is to I created a group program and so of course I reached out to Neal and of course she was willing to have a power call with me and I ran it by her, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to scale. I'm going to do this group program. And I said, but here's the deal. I, I'm really resistant to this idea. Like I love my one on one work and I, I don't know if doing this work in a group format is going to be as effective. I, I don't know if this is like a \[00:22:00\] mindset thing that I need to overcome or, or what it is. And, but I need you to help me overcome that barrier and move forward with this group program. And she said these words, which we'll always remember. She said. Be careful what you build because you don't want to build it and then look back and wish you hadn't and And I realized in that moment that she was gently guiding me to listen to my own heart and listen to my own knowing and my own guidance and she just Brought me back to that and validated what was really true and right for me, and I have never looked back I was like, oh, I'm back on my path. I'm I know what I'm doing. I mean, I'm I I'm doubling down on one on one work it's the most fulfilling and it's it gets the greatest results for my clients and And here I am still loving my work still feeling super aligned with my purpose and \[00:23:00\] And being abundantly a compensated for the work as well, which is such a gift as well. So I just want to say thank you for the ways that you personally helped me. And it is such an honor to get to have you here today to bring your brilliance. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. I also hope everyone who heard what Kris just said realized that the reason that that worked is that Kris just went back and listened to herself, which is what a lot of coaching is, is bringing you back to yourself and listening to yourself and letting all of what everyone else is saying, even though it's so well meaning and well intended, We have to listen to what's true to us, and I really believe that's why you're so successful and why you're helping so many people is because you are staying true to you. **Kris:** Yeah, and so are you. Thank you. All right, well, Nia, where can my audience find you? **Neill:** So they could visit my website at, uh, www. neilwilliams. com. They \[00:24:00\] could go listen to a podcast if they're interested in doing some time management, productivity kind of mindset work. We have, I think we're at almost 300 episodes. So lots of things to choose from it's called success genius. Or if you just want to reach out with a question, you can email me at neil at neilwilliams. com. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Character: Identify the customer as the hero of their own story - Problem: Identify the problem that the hero is facing - Guide: Position the business as the guide who can help the hero solve their problem - Plan: Provide a clear plan for how the hero can solve their problem - Call to Action: Give the hero a clear call to action that inspires them to take the next step - Failure: Show the consequences of not taking action - Success: Paint a picture of what success looks like after the hero has taken action 1. Introduction: This is where you introduce the hero (your customer) and the problem they are facing. 2. Conflict: This is the middle of the story where you describe the challenges and obstacles the hero must overcome to solve their problem. 3. Resolution: This is where the hero overcomes their challenges and achieves success. 1. A clear and compelling message: This is the core of the StoryBrand framework, and it emphasizes the importance of creating a message that is simple, clear, and easy to understand. The message should communicate the benefits of your product or service in a way that resonates with your audience. 2. Empathy for the customer: To create a message that connects with your audience, you need to show that you understand their needs, wants, and desires. This requires empathy and a deep understanding of your target audience. 3. Authority: To position yourself as the guide who can help the hero solve their problem, you need to establish yourself as an authority in your field. This can be done by showcasing your expertise, experience, and credentials. 4. Social proof: People are more likely to trust and take action based on the experiences of others. By including testimonials, case studies, and other forms of social proof, you can build credibility and establish trust with your audience. 5. Call to action: Every good story needs a clear call to action that inspires the hero to take action. This can be as simple as asking the customer to buy your product or service, or it can be a more nuanced call to action that encourages them to take a specific next step. - Your BrandScript can be used as a guide for creating compelling marketing content that clearly communicates your brand message, your own story. - Use your BrandScript to create an elevator pitch that succinctly explains what your brand is all about. - Develop marketing materials like website copy, brochures, and email campaigns that are aligned with your BrandScript. - Create social media posts and ads that tell a clear brand story and capture attention. These posts should tell your customer's story and it should help your customers achieve success. - Use your BrandScript as a foundation for training employees on how to communicate the brand message consistently. - Give your BrandScript to marketing agencies that you hire to give them clarity on the direction and message of your brand. - A website that's cluttered and overwhelming. - A sales pages that's not optimized to convert. - ​Being too close to your business to talk about it clearly.  - A non-existent marketing strategy.​ - Feeling embarrassed to send prospects to your website.​ - Not attracting your ideal audience.​​ - Feeling overwhelmed with where to begin. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/copy-that-sells ### Title: Copy That Sells ### Page ID: 4252831 ### Content: # Here are the 2 ways to work with me. # (and you can't go wrong with either option?) ##### StoryBrand Copy That Sells — ##### in 2.5 Hours Flat ##### Double Conversions ##### Work 1:1 with Kris during your 90-minute call ##### Done in 2.5 Hours ##### StoryBrand Copy That Sells + 12 Weeks of Group Coaching ##### Go through the Copy That Sells process ##### 12 training and Q&A sessions with Kris to refine your offer ##### Hands-on support and guidance Perfect for busy coaches, consultants and experts who want to stop losing sales because of website copy that's not working. We'll use StoryBrand strategy to double your conversions. I believe getting website copy that sells should be quick, easy and fun! For the business owner who wants more hands-on support and guidance. Once you complete the Copy That Sells process and your 90-minute Collaboration Call with Kris, you'll begin 12 weeks of Group Coaching. Each week, you'll meet with Kris on Thursdays at 12pm PST for training and Q&A. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/protected-collection-item ### Title: Protected Page ### Page ID: 4418236 ### Content: In order to view the page, please enter the password below: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/favorites ### Title: Favorite Things ### Page ID: 4610350 ### Content: # WorkPlay Branding # ThriveCart # TidyCal # Brizy # MailerLite # CreaSquare # Fantastical *All sessions are recorded and may be featured on my YouTube channel.* *Once you click "Apply Now" below, you'll be shown your prep work and scheduling instructions.* *All sessions are recorded and may be featured on my YouTube channel.* *Once you click "Apply Now" below, you'll be shown your prep work and scheduling instructions.* *All sessions are recorded and may be featured on my YouTube channel.* *Once you click "Apply Now" below, you'll be shown your prep work and scheduling instructions.* *All sessions are recorded and may be featured on my YouTube channel.* *Once you click "Apply Now" below, you'll be shown your prep work and scheduling instructions.* *All sessions are recorded and may be featured on my YouTube channel.* *Once you click "Apply Now" below, you'll be shown your prep work and scheduling instructions.* *All sessions are recorded and may be featured on my YouTube channel.* *Once you click "Apply Now" below, you'll be shown your prep work and scheduling instructions.* *All sessions are recorded and may be featured on my YouTube channel.* *Once you click "Apply Now" below, you'll be shown your prep work and scheduling instructions.* *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/branded ### Title: How to Sell the Transformation by Storytelling, with Steph Weber and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4737719 ### Content: ## How to Sell the Transformation by Storytelling ## The Branded Podcast with Steph Weber and Kris Jones How to Sell the Transformation by Storytelling, with Steph Weber and Kris Jones **Ever felt like you're stuck on a hamster wheel…trying to figure out the *right* words for your website?**  And no matter how hard you try, it doesn’t seem like you’re making any progress. In my recent chat with the incredible Steph Weber, we discussed common website copy mistakes and the surprisingly simple ways to fix them.  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? The #1 component business owners are missing from their websites (that you can fix in 5 minutes) ? A game-changing approach that turns your website into your top sales employee (for free). ? How painting the perfect picture of success will have them wanting more. With a clear story and a website that acts as your top sales employee — you’ll be able to focus on the things you actually enjoy. Hey there, I'm Steph Weber and I'm obsessed with teaching entrepreneurs how to achieve the freedom they're actually craving from their brand and business while wearing many other hats in life. I'm a Midwest raised adventure seeking mama who took my years of marketing and branding experience and turned it into a nearly seven figure business, the Weber Co. Now we help entrepreneurs like you build brand authority and create a marketing system that leads to your best clients. This is our version of happy Hour where we chat openly about branding, marketing, business growth and challenges, and balancing the mini hats we wear as CEOs in life and business. Pull up a chair. This is branded. Chris, I am so excited to welcome you to the branded podcast today. I'm going to hand things over to you right away to allow you to tell us a little bit about who you are, tell us a little bit about your story, and then we're going to dive into Thank you so much for having me. I'm just thrilled to be here. And my name is Chris Jones. I have a boutique firm called Red Door Designs, and my passion is really helping solopreneurs get their story dialed in a way that it does the selling for them on their website. And I have found that storytelling and figuring out the right words to put on your website is one of the hardest things to do when you're self-employed. And so I've been in this industry over 20 years. I am an entrepreneur through and through. I started my first business and had my own business cards made at the age of eight. And I'm not exaggerating. So thankfully, thanks mom for letting me print my own business cards at that age, but I'm so passionate about the freedom that comes with being self-employed, and I want that for any woman who wants that for themselves. And what I found through my background in design and copywriting is that although I feel like design and branding is so important, after many years in the industry I've realized that if your copy isn't working for you, it's really hard to connect and sell your services if your copy is not totally dialed in. So that's really my focus on how I help people the most. Okay. I want to ask you a question before we dive too much further in. Why Chris, do you feel like so many entrepreneurs struggle with the ability to be able to write and tell their stories effectively? I'm just Yeah, I love the question because I've thought a lot about it. And the beautiful thing is people come to me and I'm talking about 100% of the clients that come to me get on the phone and they say, why is this so damn hard? I've been trying to write my own copy now for a year or longer. I mean many people have been working at this and trying to DIY it for years. And so first I just want to say that it's normal and everyone struggles with it. And there are really good reasons as to why it's so hard. The first is that we're just so close to our own business. We are literally like if you can create this visual in your head. So as business owners, we are so close to ourselves, we are so close to our own business that we're really inside of a bottle trying to So we just literally don't have the perspective that we need to speak really clearly and really simply, and this is also a challenge because what happens is people get so fed up and they hire somebody, but when you're your own business, you can't outsource your own voice. So what happens is people come to me and they're like, I just spent 10,000, $20,000 on a sales page copy and it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like me. It feels that just off. And they can't really figure out why. It's because you can't outsource your voice. You just can't. So it's like in the past there's just been business owners are in a real pickle, right? Because they can't do it themselves. And when they muster up the courage and the money to hire somebody, it just is off the mark. And so that is why I've created my program and my process and it's collaborative because what you really need is an expert that can hold your hand and do it with you and provide that perspective that you need to be able to read the bottle from the outside. And really, you've got all that right information, you've got the right words in you, you've got the story inside of you. But we really just as humans, we need help. We need someone to help us pull out that right information and organize it in a way that really tells a story. And if that's not enough, there's yet another reason why this is so hard, it's because we're experts at what we do, right? By the time you own your own business, you are an expert at your work. And so what happens is something called the curse of knowledge. And what it means is that the knowledge that you have about you do is so deep that you forget what it's like to not know what. And so what happens a lot is on websites or even social media and emails, we kind of talk over our clients' heads and we forget to meet them where they're at. We forget that they don't know all the things that we know. And so when we do that, we accidentally just don't engage with them and meet them where they're at. So those are all the reasons why it's hard. So I hope you guys are giving yourself a pat on the back and saying, okay, I'm doing good. This is something everyone struggles It totally is. I love that you brought up the cursive knowledge as well because that is something, it's something that even I struggle with and I'm like, I can write and do the strategy and all the things for our other clients all day long. I need a me. For me, it's often what I say, I'll say, I need a me. For me, I just need to have somebody else take what's in my brain and put it down and let me co-work with them in order to make it happen. So I love that you brought that to light. It's so important, so important to kind of keep in mind, I want to shift Chris into, obviously I know that you are StoryBrand certified and I would love for you to explain what that means and what that framework looks like and then maybe even share a little bit of insight on how you incorporate that into your process. Yeah, absolutely. So in 2017, a brilliant writer named Donald Miller wrote a book called Building a StoryBrand, and I actually connected with Donald prior to him even writing the book. He is actually from Portland and I'm from Portland. And so I was just really resonating with his, what he is putting out there. He had a podcast at the time, but he didn't have the book. And so once I heard the book was coming out, I ended up kind of learning about his framework and did a workshop of his and then went through more of a formal training with him down in Nashville. And essentially Donald Miller is a memoirist, and so he knows how to tell a really good story. And then in the last 10 years or so, he shifted gears and he became a business owner and he kind of cracked the code on how to tell a good story, but in a And so he has simplified the components of story and the book, building a StoryBrand really walks you through his seven step framework on what every story contains and how to create a compelling story. So I do recommend that book to all my clients, but what's challenging is that lots of people read the book, but they're not quite sure how to take that leap from, okay, I've absorbed the knowledge, I'm on board with storytelling, but now how do I actually implement it in my own business? Because storytelling, we've grown up with stories like Once Upon a Time there's the Princess. And so it's confusing. It's like, oh, you want me to tell my story about me and my background and my company? And it's like, no, we really have to flip that upside down literally and say, okay, your story actually, and this is a relief to a lot of business owners, your story is not actually about you, it's about your customer, it's about your clients, it's about connecting with them and making them feel seen, making them feel heard, letting them know that you understand the struggles that they're going through. And not only that, but create a vision and show them what's possible for them after they engage with you, what's their life going to look like after they've engaged with you? So lots of really cool things that can happen when you embody the role of the Yeah, and we can get in to the nuances. I have a really simplified way that I communicate the recipes of story. I'm happy to share that You. Yeah, we would love to hear. Let's go for it. Let's dive in Real talk. You're here because you're trying to connect the dots and you're online marketing or brand strategy to increase your impact and your bottom line. We're here for the bold moves you're making and we know you're ready to step into the next level. This podcast is brought to you by our master coaching program brands, the Captivate Academy. This is a six month high touch container for service-based businesses ready to leverage their brand authority with a marketing system that generates leads consistently and an offer suite that's rave worthy. Our action taking clients on the other side achieve milestones like five figure months messaging that attracts hell. Yes, clients flow and ease with articulating their value leading to pay in full contracts. And these are just a few of the success stories. Go to the weber co.com/apply and I'm going to send you a private behind the scenes training about how brands that Captivate Academy actually works. This is where all the magic happens and So every movie you've ever seen, every book you've ever read has the components of story in it, and it all begins with a hero who has a problem. Think about Luke Skywalker and Yoda or Karate Kid and Mr. Miyagi. There's the hero at the beginning of every story and they have something that they want to accomplish or achieve, but they don't know if they have what it takes to do that. And about 20 minutes into a movie, there enters the character and that is the guide. The guide is somebody who has been there, done that accomplished what the hero wants to accomplish and can show them how to get there. And so what that guide does is comes in and he gives that hero a plan. Every hero gets a plan, and it's a very simple, here's what you need to do to accomplish this goal, and then if you do this, then here's what's going to I mean, it's really that simple. So again, a hero has the problem, meets a guide who has a solution and a plan for them to solve their problem. And then that hero shows them what success looks like for them. And the way that translates into a website is you start your website with the problem, you bullet out bullet point out three or five problems that they're struggling with. So many things happen when you do that. A lot of people think, ah, that's so negative. It's Debbie Downer or whatever. You don't want to be negative on your website. But the reality is it's not about negativity. It's about really empathy and letting them know that they're not alone in their struggle, letting them know that you understand deeply that they're stuck and they're not sure how to overcome this struggle that they're dealing with and that you really get it so you make them feel seen and heard. But the other thing that does, it opens up a story loop in our brains. So this is why when you watch a movie, you stay through the movie for 90 minutes at least because the hero has a problem and we can't disengage. Our brains literally can't disengage until we know that problem's been solved. And so when you open up your story loop with a problem on your website, people are going to keep engaging with your website and your page until they know that that story has been resolved. And so we follow up that problem section with showing them what success looks like. So we say, these are the problems that you're struggling with, and then we have another section after that that says, here's possible for you once you solve this problem. And then after that we say, here I am. I'm your guide, and here is the three steps that you need to take to engage with me in order to experience the success that I can help you So what you're saying, Chris, is that this is actually much simpler than so many of us make it. I feel like sometimes we make this idea of storytelling so complex, and maybe it's just that we're standing in our own way. But I'd love for you to actually dive a little bit further into the nuances as it pertains to the website because I feel like so many entrepreneurs get stuck there when they're writing pages for a masterclass or sales pages for whatever program they may be offering. So I would love for you to share a little bit more about that and walk us through that flow maybe one more time so everyone can really absorb it and we can have a better understanding so that we can simplify the process instead of overcomplicating. Totally. I mean, if you do just those three things, you're 90%. There are other components of storytelling, and I'm simplifying it just in an effort to show you the shortest path to get to your story. But the reality is if you introduce your hero with a problem, so essentially you bullet point out the problems that they're struggling with, and when you articulate it that way, they immediately think you are the best one to solve it. It's like this funny psychology thing that happens. Literally, even if a friend really articulated a problem that they had or a problem that they used to have, you'd say, oh, you're the one that can solve it when you can articulate it really well. So that's really what we want to start with. And then we want to show them what's possible. And this can be as simple as three icons. Three is really the magic number on your website. So you want to do three icons of what success looks like for them. So it might be get your time back depending on what you do. If you're a coach or you're a chiropractor or whatever, get your time back, spend quality time with your family. Again, reach your income goals or whatever. Paint that picture of what success looks like for them. Notice that we're not talking about features, we're talking about painting that picture after the fact. This is not about you, it's about them. What's their life going to look like? And then you want to follow that up with a very clear plan. You say, hi, quick introduction again, it's not a lot about you. Hi, I am and I'm passionate about helping this audience achieve this goal. Here's how I'm different, and here's how I do it. Step one, and I'm going to show you an example of a plan or talk you through an example of a plan. But the idea is the plan is so important. And again, this sounds so simple, but there's so many layers of things psychologically that are going on right here. So just even with the plan, we're showing them in three simple steps that they're going to be able to reach success, even though technically it might be 18 steps when you really get into the nuance of it. But we want to show them, imagine they're on one side, a river, and you're on the other side of the river, and you know how to get them to your side of overcoming this struggle that they have. And what you're doing by giving them a plan is they're on the other side of the river wanting to get And what you're doing is you're placing three giant boulders across the river so they have a clear path to get to success. So the first step of the plan is typically for service providers, it's schedule a call with me or by the program, by the course, something like that. You want them to engage there. And then step two is typically what's going to happen through the process. So step two, you're going to get a detailed plan or you're going to be connected with a community of people that you'll be going through this with. And then step three is always what's the happy end result that they're going to experience? So step three is really, let's just say achieve the financial freedom that you're dreaming about. So it's a very, very simple plan, but every guide gives their hero of plan. Other components of things that establish us as a hero are empathy. So we do that again through talking about their problem and just reminding them, this is hard. We get it, we get it. This can be overwhelming, but don't worry, I can guide you through the process and authority. So things like, definitely don't forget to put testimonials on your website, but make sure that testimonials speak to the struggle and overcoming that struggle rather than how great you are, how funny you are, how smart you are. You really want everything to be focused on your audience. Oh wow. Chris. I mean you guys, for all of you who are listening, Chris really just walked you through that framework of building out an incredible, well-rounded and also highly converting sales page. This is amazing. So definitely be sure to save this episode of Book Market. Chris, is there anything that we haven't covered today that you want to be sure people understand and that you can kind of touch on before we round out today? Yeah, I think it depends on what your page is, but I think one really important thing to include in your story is what's at stake, right? So we are humans. We make decisions through contrast, and we want to really remind toward the bottom of the page what's at stake for them. If they do nothing, what's at stake for them if they don't take action? And this is just kind of like I liken it to we were baking a big pot of positive stew and then we sprinkle in a little spice and we remind them on the page this says, you know what? Life is too short to stay disconnected from your loved one. Or life is too short to work in a job that isn't fulfilling for you. What's at stake for them if they don't engage with you? And again, it's not really about negativity, it's just really a great way to remind people that it's important to take action if you really want change in your life. Wow, that is the truest of true statements. I love that. Chris, thank you so much for sharing. Can you tell us where we can find you and connect with you so that everyone can go and do so? Absolutely. So if you are a DIY and you just want to dip your toe into storytelling, then you can go to Clarity with Chris and Chris is with a K Clarity with chris.com, my freebies on there. You can watch a five. You can learn how to write compelling copy in five minutes or less. And then if you're someone who has just been struggling with writing your own copy and you're just like, screw this, I need help. I need an expert to hold my hand through this. You can work with me one-on-one by going to grow.red door designs.com, that's grow.red door designs.com. And I have a program that is a StoryBrand website copy that sells for you in 2.5 hours flat. And I've created this program, it's collaborative with me, but I've done it in such a short time because I've been able to streamline the process and I know as much as any of us, I know how busy we all are as business owners. So it's really important that it not take up a bunch of your time. So the whole process takes two and a half hours and we're done. And then you have copy for your website that sells for you, does that heavy lifting, and you can check it off your list. definitely one that you all should check out for sure. Chris, thank you so much for joining me here today on Branded. This was such an incredible conversation in and around story and really how to leverage that on your website. So thank I'm over here clinking glasses with you because you just finished another episode of Branded. For today's show notes, head on over to the weber co.com where you can also inquire to work with us through our agency or coaching programs. If you enjoyed today's episode, leave us a review to let us know your biggest takeaway. Until next time, I'm encouraging you to take *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/coaching ### Title: Copy That Sells Coaching ### Page ID: 4848667 ### Content: # TidyCal **To run a simple, profitable business that attracts the right clients.** *I’ve had the chance to connect with many coaches, and I’ve noticed something. Like you, they’re passionate about helping others. But they keep hitting a wall when it comes to turning that passion into a profitable business.*  *You might be facing a similar challenge. Even if you’re an exceptional coach, building a business that pays well can be tough. It's hard to know where to start or what to do next. The gap between knowing your craft and knowing how to sell it can be vast and, frankly, a little intimidating.*  ***That's exactly why I created the*** ***Coach Builder Membership******.***  *This membership is your bridge over that gap. It shows you, step by step, how to build a reliable coaching business that brings in great money.* ***Join the Coach Builder Membership waitlist today*** *and you'll be one of the first to get into the membership. Plus, you'll get special tips and updates.* *There’s no reason to build your coaching business in a vacuum. If you want to be a great coach, surround yourself with great coaches. It’s the fastest way to gain momentum and achieve your goals.*  *I think you’d be a good fit for the Coach Builder membership, Kris. We hope to see you on the inside.* *Author, Coach Builder and CEO, Business Made Simple* *P.S. Join the Coach Builder waitlist to get early access to all the resources and support you need to grow your coaching business. It’s time to start building the career you’ve always dreamed of.* *All sessions are recorded and may be featured on my YouTube channel.* *Once you click "Apply Now" below, you'll be shown your prep work and scheduling instructions.* *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - *Get a straightforward* ***8-step plan*** *to build your coaching business.* - *Receive a* ***dedicated coach*** *to help you earn more than 6 figures.* - *Enjoy access to our* ***courses and coaching certifications.*** - *Use our* ***easy tech*** *like a pre-loaded CRM and website wireframe tool.* - ***Connect*** *with a community of coaches and learn together as you grow.* - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/emily-hibard-show ### Title: How to Leverage Storytelling in Your Business, with Emily Hibard and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4932559 ### Content: ## How to Leverage Storytelling in Your Business ## The Emily Hibard Show, with Emily Hibard and Kris Jones How to Leverage Storytelling in Your Business, with Emily Hibard and Kris Jones **Do you find it hard to talk about your services in a clear and compelling way?** In a recent conversation with Emily Hibard, we discussed the psychology of effective branding and business growth.  This episode is packed with valuable insights on how to make an unforgettable first impression. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? How to tell a story that creates profitable connections. ?‍♂️ How to capture their attention by doing this one simple thing. ? How to use psychology to increase website conversions. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Welcome to the Emily Hibbard Show, where I, Emily Hibbard interview fascinating people from different backgrounds, experiences, and faiths. Joining me today is brand strategist Chris Jones of Red Door Designs. Oh my gosh. Okay, so I'm your number one fan because I love the psychology behind what you do. Anyone who has this, I dunno, anyone with psychology, I feel like gets in my head and kind of trips me out. And I think that's what fascinates me about you is that you bring so much psychology Yeah, it's a big part of it. I mean, so many decisions that we make are actually not made consciously. They're made unconsciously. So it's really important when you're doing your branding or you're running your business, that you really understand the psychology of the people that you're Now take me back, how did you get into this? Did you study psychology, graphic design, psychology? How did this merge? Well, I have been doing design and branding and all things marketing for about 20 years, but I feel like if I were to go back and get another round at college, I would definitely major in psychology. That aspect of it really fascinates me, and I've just always been into brain science and biohacking and things like that outside of my work life, and so it makes sense I mean, this past year I've had the opportunity to hear from a lot of your clients who are singing your praises about what you've done, what you've done for them, whether it's their website, whether it's branding, just overall the strategy of it. And there's that so much psychology and it seems like everyone that I've worked with is so pleased because you're able to take it past just creating a logo, take it past, just picking some colors that you think might appeal to that niche or that audience. Where did that come So like I said, I did a lot of years as a graphic designer and making things really beautiful, but eventually I started to really recognize the power of copywriting and design and copywriting go hand in hand. So you can't have beautiful design and mediocre copy and you can't have great copy and mediocre design. So I eventually really learned how to create a message that really resonates. And what I understood or what I came to really learn is that psychology, a lot of psychology is really about story and how story as humans, we are just wired for story in so many ways. So there's really some powerful tools to weave story into your brand and into your messaging. And I guess it was 2017, I got certified as a StoryBrand guide and started to really, and yes, it's about story, but it's also very much about psychology. They work together and it's about kind of tapping into that survival part of our brain, that amygdala in the back that wires us for surviving and thriving. And this is how we've evolved as humans. We're constantly scanning our environment to figure out how am I going to survive? How am I going to thrive, whether it's through relationships or making money or feeling good. We're constantly wired for that. We're also really wired for connection and story just touches on all of those components. So when you start to really understand the architecture of a story, whether it's a book that you're reading or a movie that you go to, or even a website that you visit, if it's done well, they all have those same fundamental components of story and they all tap into that part of our brain that is trying to survive and thrive. So that's kind of how it all came to be. And then after becoming a StoryBrand certified guide, my website design business just blew up because the websites became so much more effective and fundamentally we're really connecting. So my clients, I was creating websites for my clients that were really deeply connecting and deeply resonating with their clients, allowing them to grow and That is absolutely fascinating. For someone that's not familiar with StoryBrand or what it means to be a StoryBrand guide, what is StoryBrand is? Well, there's a book that Donald Miller wrote years ago back in, gosh, I think it was 2017. I became a guide before the book even came out. But Donald Miller wrote this brilliant book called Building a StoryBrand, and it just really broke down the components of story, but from a business owner's perspective and from a marketing perspective, because for a lot of business owners, marketing is just this mysterious black box of where do I begin, what do I do? And so it empowered business owners to really understand what story is and how to craft a story for their own business that allows them to attract more clients. And so yeah, StoryBrand was kind of the beginning of that, and a lot of StoryBrand guides are specifically just writers, but I found as a designer, it really combining those two things, both really high-end design and really story-driven copy was the one two punch that was missing on most websites on the internet. So combining those has been incredibly powerful Schmoe's website, and you're going to look at that through the StoryBrand guide eyes that you have, what are the top things that you look for immediately? Well, I'll start by sharing what most people get wrong, because once you become aware of this, then you'll know how to fix it. So often what business owners do or companies do, and it doesn't matter if you're selling a widget or selling a service or you're a large company or a small company, story works for all of it. So what happens a lot is business owners make themselves the hero of their own story. And that can look like just talking a lot about yourself, talking a lot about what you do, and I totally understand why this happens. It's like, okay, this is my website, what am I going to fill it up with? And you know, and your work. And so you kind of just start writing about yourself. But what that approach does is really allows, it forces the character and the story so that the business owner becomes the hero of the Where what we really want and what creates connection is when your customer or client or buyer is the hero of your story, and you step into that story as the guide. So think like Karate Kid and Mr. Miyagi Karate Kid is the hero of the story, and the hero is actually the weakest character of this story. We're not sure if he's going to learn the karate chop moves that he needs to learn to win. So Mr. Miyagi's been there, done that. He knows the path and he knows how to guide that hero to success, but it's really up to karate kid to kind of do the work. So we, as business owners on our own websites, we really need to embody that like Mr. Miyagi or Yoda, if you will, for your Star Trek people. We need to embody that role as the guide and then really invite our customers to be the hero of our story. And when you make that flip in your website or your marketing, or even just the way you talk about your business to someone you're talking to at a cocktail party, the dynamic really changes because you're speaking with empathy and authority and you're embodying the It's not, oh, it's huge. It's absolutely huge. The website about the company, about the person, or is it about the user? I mean, that Who's it about? And really two things around that is really what do they want and how you can help them, and what problems are they experiencing? So when you can do this one thing, I'm sure you have experienced this before where someone's talking about their problem or you go to a website and they're talking about, have you faced this problem? Are you behind on your budgeting or bookkeeping? Are you, whatever the problem is, they're naming that problem and automatically when someone can name the problem that you're experiencing, you think, oh, they're the one that they can fix it automatically. It's a weird thing in our brain. We think when you can name our problem accurately, then you must be the right one to fix it. So I always start my websites really simply. They start with, okay, what do you want? So it might be like, if I was working with an accountant, we'll just go with that theme. It would be like bookkeeping made simple bookkeeping done for you so you can focus on what you love. So that's really in a simple way, I'm saying, I'll do your bookkeeping and then you're going to benefit from that by getting to focus on what you love. You pack in multiple problems and benefits, and then write after that is where we really hone in on the problem. So it would be like if bookkeeping were my issue and I didn't have a bookkeeper, it would be like, your accounting's unorganized, your receipts are all over the floor. You're still trying to catch up on last year's taxes. What are these problems? So you list out three to five, and then automatically you're really, what it's doing is really letting the viewer, your potential customer, feel like they're understood and that they're not alone, and that somebody really knows their problem and that that person can help them solve Oh my gosh, why do, so you said this is one of the issues that you see that a lot of websites, a lot of small businesses don't do well. They talk about themselves or they make them the hero of their story. What do you think it is in us as people where we naturally sort of default to that? Well, that's a really good question. I think number one is we really are the heroes of our own stories and our lives. So we come at it from this perspective, and this is not a bad thing. We are living our own hero's journey just by being on this planet. So we like to talk about ourselves because we know ourselves. I mean, this is not a character fault. We are all relatively self-centered, and this isn't our wiring, and this is why we have survived so well over many, many, many years because we are really kind of self-centered. It gets a bad wrap and it has a negative connotation to it, but it's really not. It's just the way we're wired as humans. So it just takes a little bit of knowledge really to kind of go, oh, let me kind of consider what life is like in their shoes and what problems they're going through. And I think especially with service-based business owners, well, as business owners in general, we all have big hearts and we all really want to help. So again, it's not to no knock on any business owner that's the hero of their own story. It's just because we don't know the structure of story and we're all just doing our best. It's pretty intimidating to build a website or design a website and have someone say, okay, what do you want to put on this page? It's like, of course you're going to talk about your great grandfather who founded the company and whatever else, but it just doesn't include your customer in a way that really puts you in a position of trust and authority. And so when you step into that guide role by just doing a few little things, it That's fascinating because I am, as you're talking, I'm thinking of so many aspects of my life that I could apply that to not just with websites, not just with branding, but oh, what can I do for someone? I meet someone at a cocktail party? What would that mean to them if they feel heard? If I talk a little bit less about me and I see more interested genuinely about them, what could I unlock in people? The psychology it gets in my head, where do I go? And I just, me, me, me, Emily, Emily, Emily, where can I go? And really to get to those deeper, those deeper layers, which I think are precious Well, and that's huge and totally would change the way anybody would experience a social event. But when it comes to your business and your work, which is often a topic at these, at any social event, what do you do? And dah, dah, dah. So I could say I'm a bookkeeper, and then all of a sudden the conversation kind of falls flat. Or I could say, at the end of the year when your taxes are due and you've got receipts piled all over the floor and you can't remember what you spent on this donation, and you're just frazzled and you have a million things to do that you'd rather be doing well, I help business owners get organized with their bookkeeping so they can really focus on the work that they love. I have a three-step plan. First, I organize your receipts and your bookkeeping. Then I streamline and automate what can be automated, and then I plan ahead for the next year. So that doesn't happen Making some fake story and I'm drawn into your fake story. You can't even help it. I was drawn into your fake story, And then that's the beginning of the story because you're pulled in and you want to know more, and maybe you need help with that, or maybe you have a friend that needs help with that. So I've just opened up potential opportunities to grow my business in a really authentic but connected way. Yeah. Yeah, it's fun. Brilliant. It's really fun. Yeah. Okay, so I want to talk about your ebook, why we Okay. So a lot of my clients come to me and they're just like, fix my website, make it better. I hate it. I'm embarrassed to send people to my website. I dread making a change. I can't get into the backend. And so this is really a guide called Why We Click and it tells you the nine steps of psychology behind a website that actually works and helps you convert new clients. So it gives you really the why behind what you're going to do. I tell you exactly what to do, but then you understand the psychology behind it. So then you can really apply that not only to the website, but every aspect of And I'm assuming you take the same storytelling approach. Hey, you know that time at the end of the year when your receipts are all over the floor, and just kind of draw that in. Where can you find that ebook? That ebook is@reddoordesigns.com. That's Red Door with two Ds, red Door designs with an s@theend.com. And when you go to the website, you'll see right at the top it says Free resources, and you go to that page. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Chris, thank you so much for joining me on the show today and talking a little bit about the psychology of what you do and branding and all that. You are absolutely amazing. Like she said, visit our website@reddoordesigns.com. So that concludes another episode of the Emily Hibbard Show. Connect with me on Instagram at Emily Hibbard. I'll *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/she-shines ### Title: Creating a Strategic Website to Attract Your Dream Clients, with Anna Laura, Alex and Featured Guest, Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4933729 ### Content: ## Creating a Strategic Website to Attract Your Dream Clients ## The She Shines Podcast, with Anna Laura, Alex and Kris Jones Creating a Strategic Website to Attract Your Dream Clients, with Anna Laura, Alex and Featured Guest, Kris Jones **Is running your own business harder than you thought it would be?**  Often we think, “Once I get \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ done, things will get easier.”  In my recent chat with Laura and Alex, we uncovered the secrets of crafting a compelling business story. This episode is a goldmine if you want to truly connect with your audience and get them excited about working with you. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn how to share what you do in a way that grabs their immediate attention. ? Find out how to guide your clients instead of trying to be the hero. ? Discover the secret behind photography that brings your story to life. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. When you're consistent with your call to actions, people think, oh, they're in charge. I know what they want me to do. They must be my guide. They must know what they're doing because they're clearly taking a leadership role and telling me what to do. And that's what people want. I mean, they are the hero. So they're coming to your website and you are as a character Welcome to the She Shines podcast with your host, brand photographer and serial entrepreneur, Anna Laura, and super proud career woman with a passion for entrepreneurship. Alex, tune in for some connection community and Girl Talk Plus, join their conversations with other entrepreneurs and professionals who've been there, built that and are paying it forward. They'll take your burning questions and turn them into actionable steps with All right, have you ever tried to make your own website or landing page? Hand up? Hand up. Hands, hands and feet up over here for sure. And maybe you have felt like us, right? You have the colors, you have photos, you're just throwing words on that screen like confetti and voila, your alexandria.com site is live. And while you were hoping for the sales to explode, like yes, I've got these bomb colors, wonderful photos, you're just Yes, been there. You're literally, it's like you're telling my story. What we've experienced firsthand is the power of using not just images, but also words that speak directly to your ideal client or ideal community. As you're going to hear from our amazing guest today, making a site actually has very little to do with you, even if it is Alexandria. And really you're going to want to focus on your ideal community and the problem that you saw for them. And if you've been around for a sec, this is something we are huge on if you've ever been in our mentor program or gone through our very own Yes. So let's chat about our podcast guest today, Chris Jones. She is the founder of Red Door Designs and she's a StoryBrand guide. If you're not familiar with StoryBrand, we cannot recommend this book enough. Seriously. It's called Building a StoryBrand. Run to the blog post for this episode and definitely snag yourself a copy. Literally Anna Laura was reading Yeah. And would voice note me all of her takeaways and be like, we have to do this. We have to do this. And Shehan book club. Yeah. Yes, exactly. It was such a wealth of knowledge and you guys will learn a little bit from our conversation with Chris today. And in fact, Chris was mentored by the StoryBrand founder Donald Miller himself, so you know, are getting the goods in She knows her stuff. Girlfriend has over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike under her belt, as you'll hear, she is extremely passionate about helping self-employed women. Get website copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. Yes, I love this so much. So here are a few must hear moments. You're going to hear the formula for how to use the power of storytelling on your site, imagery and copywriting, tips that convert clients must have website sections. Hello. And be sure you keep the blog post for this episode, which gives a few more must haves as well as several of the links mentioned in this episode. So let's not dial anymore, go on ahead and dive on Welcome back to the She Shines podcast, everybody. We are so pumped. If you could hear the conversation before we hit record, you're clearly so excited to have Chris Jones in the house. Welcome, Chris. conversation, which we are really pumped to learn about, because like Anna Laura said, we were chatting a little bit before and you guys know she shines. We've been going through some changes. So we know this conversation is going to be so timely for so many of you out there. But before we get there, tell us a little bit about yourself. Walk us through your background. What made you take the leap into this crazy world of entrepreneurship and the journey that you've Well, I think I'm an entrepreneur at heart because when I was eight years old, I started smushing flowers in the neighborhood and making perfume and selling them door to door. So I had this idea of figuring out ways to make my own money. And then later that year my mom let me get my own business cards printed. Love it. So I had professionally printed business card It was called Chris's Crafts, and it had little rainbow My aunt who saves everything, found it. She had kept it. I totally do. I know, I know. I hope it lives on forever. Oh, beautiful. And so that kind of actually started my interest in graphic design. So I would just take pre-made goods like candles or jewelry holders or just plastic things, and I would say, Hey, I'm selling this item and I'm going to write your name on it in your favorite colors with paint pens and puffy paint and the whole thing. And so that kind of started way back early on. But as an adult, I got really into graphic design in my early twenties and just knew from the first class that I took that it was like my heart and soul and really my purpose and my reason for being here on the planet. And it was a lot about design, but in my opinion, design is really about storytelling. So really what happened was I spent many years doing design work, working in ad agencies and working in big corporations like Nike and Adidas, and then eventually went out on my own and kind of hung my own shingle with red door designs. And over the years just delved deep into that world, never looked back, just it was just totally meant to be for me to have my own company. But what happened was I began to realize the limitations of design. It used to be early on in the web that if you had a great looking website, it could really help you grow. And now it just doesn't get you there. You have to have very strategic, very intentional copywriting and using the power and the fundamentals of story to really connect with people and convert your ideal clients. Absolutely, yes. I was going to say, this is a beautiful segue into our conversation here. Also, I'm still reeling over your 8-year-old business cards and I really hope that you find it. It's making me so Please do. Alright, so we are here today to chat all about storytelling and strategy and attracting clients with those things. So when your pitch came over, we were really excited because you talk about these five must have website sections that every expert or small business owner should have. So we feel like that's a really good place to start. So tell us what are those sections that we need on our website? Why do we need them and what are Yeah, okay. Well, when you land on a website, the first thing that you see is the header of that website. So that's where the images and the big headline is. And that is obviously it is the most important real estate on the page because you can either pull somebody in at that point or you can confuse them or overwhelm them and they will leave the website. So everybody's got that on their website, but it's not always doing the work for you of really inviting your people in to engage with you. So that area is really an opportunity to be stupid simple. Do not be clever, do not be cute. Just say what you do. I'm an accountant for people over 50 or whatever it is that you do. Just keep it so simple. So there's no questions or the best plumbers in Nashville, Tennessee, I'm talking about, it's so simple that people kind of think, really, I think I can do better than that, but don't Saying, it's so hard for me hearing don't be clever or cute. I'm like, what do you mean totally? How do I do that? I know I'm all about the fun personality and having a little flare, but in that section, really, if you are causing people to think too hard to figure out what you do or to scroll too far down the page and they still don't quite know what you do, people say in that section you could say envision success. And it's like, well, what success climbing a mountain? Or are we going rafting or are you teaching me how to type? I don't know. Yeah, that area is really important to basically just state what you do and infuse in a benefit or two so they understand why am I here, how is it going to benefit me? Everybody is on your website not because of you. They're on your website because of themselves. They're there to solve a problem for themselves. And so they're looking always scanning the environment. What's in it for me? What's in It's not a selfish thing or an ego-based thing. It's just truly how we're wired as humans. We're just scanning the environment to figure out how we can survive and thrive. And when you create copy that speaks to that, it goes a long way. And then the third part of this section is a clear call to action. So you want to have, in the upper right section of your website, you want a very clear call to action, and then underneath the header area of your website, you want that same clear call to action. So when you're consistent with your call to actions, people think, oh, they're in charge. I know what they want me to do. They must be my guide. They must know what they're doing because they're clearly taking a leadership role and telling me what to do. And that's what people want. I mean, they are the hero. So they're coming to your website and you are as a character in this story, you are their guide. So you need to tell them what to do. A clear call to action is a wonderful way to position yourself as the guide. When I talk about a clear call to action, I'm not talking about something like learn more or connect or you You can do better. I believe in you send, you want it to be very clear. Schedule a call, send us an email, start your project. So it needs to be both actionable and very clear rather than vague. Yes. I love this so much. Something that we sort of skipped over. We talked about it before we hit record, but Chris was mentored by Donald Miller who wrote Building a StoryBrand and some of these principles as you're speaking now I'm remembering reading them. So last year I read the book and I would voice message, Alex, here's what I learned today. And so if you go to our website, you can actually see some of these implemented. But now as you're speaking, I'm like, oh, we got some more work to do. So yeah, this is so exciting to hear and spark those takeaways and I'm like, oh yeah. Oh shoot, StoryBrand is just one of those as a business owner, everybody should read that book every year because every year it'll hit you differently or you'll see things just like you are now that you're like, I understand that more. I can always fine tune and tweak my website a little bit more and I'm doing the same thing, right? It's not a static thing where you're done, but an evolution as And I am excited to dive into this next question too because obviously the header is very big in attention grabbing. And then throughout your site infusing this idea of storytelling, not only in the copy that you write, but really in the visuals too. And so I'm a branding photographer, so this speaks to my heart telling a story through imagery. How Oh my gosh. I love talking about photography because with the work that I do, photography is so incredibly powerful in telling that story in so many ways. And you essentially can use photography in three different ways. So number one, you can show photography that represents your ideal client in their happy success final state, like everybody that comes to your website wants something, they want to achieve success in whatever you are selling to them. So they want to get organized with their bookkeeping or they want to get fit and lose weight, or they want to break free of chronic pain. So you really want to show them, let's just say we're at a retirement planner's website, so we really want to show visuals of those ideal clients after they've really gotten their retirement dialed in and they're feeling very relaxed and happy and joyful, and they have peace of mind because they're in that happy after So part of storytelling on your website is really about positioning yourself as the guide and your client as the hero. The hero is actually the weakest person in every story, and the guide is the strongest person in every story. And so the way we position ourselves as the guide is to really paint a picture of what's possible for your ideal clients. And photography is such a great way to do that. Another incredible way, and I make all my clients Don do this, but a lot of business owners don't even think to include this on their website, but if you do, it makes a huge difference. So someone comes to your website and they're like, okay, who is this person? She's telling me about herself and her expertise, but really what they want to know is what's And that's one of those just blind areas that we forget to really show people what that looks like. So when my clients do photo shoots prior to doing their website, I always encourage them to bring a friend to the photo shoot and get photos of them working with a client. Or if you're a service-based provider, usually you're working with people one-on-one or couples or groups, and you really want to overcome the unknown that people have in their brain about what it might look like or feel like to work with you. And so you just want to capture these visuals showing the connection and care that That's beautiful, and not make it so much the insert your name here show, make it more about who you're actually serving. Not so much Right, right. It's really kind of a medley of showing your clients in a very happy state of what they're going to feel like after they work with you, and then showing you with your clients, showing that care and connection that you provide with your clients. And so photos of the two of you together, and then also photos of you, of course, headshots of you showing the whites of your eyes. That's a really big way to develop trust. People don't buy from people they don't trust. And photography, especially professional photography, if you care enough to invest in photography for yourself, you're a professional, you care about your business and you're more trustworthy just by the very nature of having a professional photo shoot. It's so true. It makes all the difference. I mean, I'm a huge believer in storytelling and the power of words on your website, but as powerful as the photography and when they're paired together, so few people on the internet are pairing them together in an intentional way, the combination catapults you above and beyond all your competition. It's amazing what happens. Yes. And speaking of the copy as well, which is another obviously very important part, so you have the images that kind of I think draw people in to want to read whatever it is on the screen. What would your tips there be for infusing storytelling with something that is impactful? Yeah. So we touched a little bit on one of the main sections that you want to include on your website, which of course is that header. But I'm going to break down the formula for story. I think it will help translate how story actually converts to a website environment. So every story you've ever heard, every movie you've ever been to, any book you've ever read, the formula is the same. It truly is. I mean, when it's done well or even when it's not done well, it is the same darn formula every time. It always begins with a hero who has a problem. And that's what pulls us in is like, oh my gosh, there's this character. We're getting to know them a little bit, and they have a problem, they're struggling with something and we don't know if they're going So right then and there, we are engaged and our brains, it is irresistible for us. We cannot help but engage and we will not disengage until we know that that problem or struggle has been resolved. And this is why in this day and age when you've got cell phones and emails and to-do lists a mile long and twins crying in the background, I mean, there's so many distractions. But when we enter into a movie theater and the lights go down and the story begins, we don't even think about our phone or anything else in our whole lives for an hour and a half to two hours, nothing on the planet has the power of story in that way. Nothing can connect with us and pull us in the way that stories do. And so the fundamentals are really the same as a business owner who's creating a website or the way you do your social media or the way It's a hero that has a problem. Your customer or your client is the hero with a problem. And then about 20 minutes into any movie or book, a guide enters into the story. And that guide has been there, done that has already overcome the struggle that the hero is in the midst of, and they have a plan. So the guide gives the hero a very clear plan and calls them to action. And so then if the hero follows the plan and engages with the guide, they reach success. And part of what the guide does is show them what success actually looks like, which we touched on a little bit with the photography is one way to do that. So when you break it down, it's step one, you've got a hero with a problem. Step two, the hero meets a guide with a plan, and step three, That's every story. So how does that translate to a website? Basically, we have to start with the problem. It's very, very simple. Section one after your header is the problem section. I just call it the problem section. It's three to five bullet points or three to five sentences that really articulate the problem that your clients are facing. And if you take nothing else from what we've talked about today, this is probably the very most important thing, is very clearly articulating that problem and in a detailed way, because when it's detailed enough, so many things happen, the story loop opens up, and we can't help but engage. And then also when you articulate it very well, subconsciously, our brains automatically think that you are the best one to solve this problem. For me. It's probably happened in your lives before. If a friend's like, this is what I've been feeling, or this is what I went through, and it's so clearly articulated that you're like, yes, I get it. Yes, I know what you're talking about. What did you do to solve that? So it's a really powerful way to begin your website because the other thing it does that is so cool is it creates a real deep sense of connection. People feel seen and they feel heard. And there are clients that I've had that are kind of, I would say, a little bit resistant to this idea because they don't want to be Debbie Downer or they don't want to be negative. Then I get it. I really, really do. But when you really understand the power of story and the formula for story, you really do have to start with the problem. And then you just need to remind yourself, I am helping people figure out if they're in the right place. And if they're not your ideal client, they're not going to connect with or relate to the problems that you're communicating. So it kind of gets rid of the people that aren't the right fit, and it really And so that section one, it's so, so important. And then it's followed with another section where we really paint that picture of success. So I like to pick three things, and I like to either show photography or icons to really show that these are important and they're all about success. What is your life going to be like after you engage with me? Are you going to be able to climb to the top of a mountain? Are you going to be the one who knows how to throw the best parties? What is it? Are you going to have peace of mind about something that currently is stressing you out? So pick three really beautiful things that represent the success that you provide to your clients and really make it important. So that problem section is really followed by, okay, I get your problem. I know where you're at, I'm meeting you where you are, and I can help you get here. I know the way to help you get here. Yeah, this is so great. And I feel like these two things, the problem section and then the showing success after I feel like are the easiest things to skip because it's like, oh, I created this business and I have this wonderful product or service, and here you go, right? And you don't really address those big parts that, like you said, can really, really help your client or customer base really get to know you, really get to trust you and feel like you understand what they're actually going through. And I know that's how I shop. I love to feel like you get me. I always a sucker for good marketing if it sounds like me, if I've used the same words, the language, if I have it in my class, I'm like, I'm buying from you immediately. So I'm so glad you mentioned that because I think they are very, very easy things to look over. But when done correctly, they can make huge shifts for your business. They can. And one of the things that I really also want to clarify and mention is that that success section, it's not a features section. So features is about you. You don't want to make yourself the hero. It's really about the hero's success. How is their life going to be so much better because they've engaged with you and you notice this is your website. We haven't even talked about you yet. We are all about the hero already in the first three sections. So it's kind of a load off, I think, for people or a relief in a way, because some people, they create a website and they're like, what do I write about? Do I guess I have to write about myself? And it's kind of a relief to be like, oh, no, no, I don't actually, I have to. Of course, you are a character in your story, so there is a time and place on your website to talk about you, but we haven't gotten that far. We have to earn their trust and create a connection first, and then you earn the right to talk about you and your process and what Beautiful. So beautiful. Thank you Chris, so much for sharing all this wonderful information about creating your story brand and infusing this to your website strategy, your copy, your visuals. I mean it really kind of spiders into everything. And this podcast episode I think is going to be such a beautiful blueprint for our community. And everyone, please make sure you go to the blog post because we have Linked Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller. So go ahead and snag yourself a copy, and we have all of Chris's links in there so you can go on and stalk her and see everything that she's doing. But please tell everyone where we can connect with you and what Absolutely. So the main way that I work with clients is I have a StoryBrand website copy that sells program, and it all happens in 2.5 hours flat because everybody I work with is just so busy who has time to write their website copy, and it can take days, months, years. So I have a system, and the wonderful thing about it for people is that you're not doing it on your own. It's literally we do it one-on-one with me. And so you walk away knowing it's done and it's telling a story, and then you can check that off your list and get back to doing the work that you love. And then I also have a free workshop that helps you confidently answer the question, what do you do? So it Know it's like, are you freeze or you cringe, or you're like, it's either a two word answer or you kind of talk over word vomit, somebody glazing over. And so the cool thing about that is that once you have the right words to communicate what you do, basically, you don't have to recreate the wheel. You can take those words and copy and paste them onto your LinkedIn profile, copy and paste 'em into your social media profiles, put 'em in your email signature on your business card, all that stuff. So it's kind of This is beautiful. And that's what I was thinking this whole time too, but everything you're talking about like, oh, we could use this Yeah. So I forgot to share though that the free workshop is at Clarity with Chris with a k.com. That's clarity with chris.com. And then the website copy in 2.5 hours flat is@grow.red door designs.com. That's with Beautiful. And like Alex mentioned earlier, all of this is linked in the blog post of this episode, so feel free to head on over and click away. Be sure you give Chris a follow and shout her out, ask your questions, anything. I'm sure she would love to hear from you. I'm speaking for you. So I just had that feeling. Thank you all so much for tuning Thank you for having me. It's been such a pleasure. podcast. Before you go, be sure you subscribe so you don't miss out on the next episode. Plus, we would love to hear what you enjoyed most. So share a takeaway and be sure to tag us at she X shines. And lastly, please take a sec to leave a thoughtful review or pass this episode on to someone you feel could use it. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/imperfectly-ambitious ### Title: How to Attract More Clients Through Effective Storytelling, with Amanda Edwards and Special Guest, Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4933741 ### Content: ## How to Attract More Clients Through Effective Storytelling ## The Imperfectly Ambitious Podcast, with Amanda Edwards and Kris Jones How to Attract More Clients Through Effective Storytelling, with Amanda Edwards and Special Guest, Kris Jones **Ever wondered how to truly engage your audience and pull them into a story? It’s simpler than you might think, and I'm here to reveal the secrets.** In a recent eye-opening conversation with Amanda Edwards, we went deep into crafting narratives that truly resonate.  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Discover the art of avoiding the hero position and focusing on your audience's needs when crafting your message. ? Learn how starting with this ONE thing can captivate your audience and make you the obvious choice to work with. ? Get 3 simple tips to help your audience avoid overwhelm when visiting your site. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Imperfectly Ambitious. Alright, in today's episode, I'm talking with Chris Jones and we're talking about storytelling, and she's going to bring in her shortcut to the StoryBrand framework, and we're going to talk through how to incorporate storytelling, how to incorporate some of these fundamentals of storytelling into your business so that you can leverage the power of it, you can increase your connection with your audience, connection with your clients, really gain more leverage in your results and grow your business as a result of this effective storytelling. Because I think that so many times we hear about story, the power of story, and that we should be bringing more story into our content or our copy or marketing materials, but it's like, okay, then you're wondering how to actually do that. And when we think of a story, we often think The key thing here, the key aha moment in this episode is the story isn't actually about you. This type of story that we're talking about that's actually going to cause you to create a connection, see more results, get better responses and just see growth in your business and in your connections is storytelling. That's about them. So how to do that is what we're talking about today. And she actually, we go through things that you can start doing. We actually show you what that looks like, and she talks through that in this shortcutted StoryBrand framework that she has that really simplifies things. So tune in, I know you'll enjoy. Welcome to Imperfectly Ambitious. This is your go-to podcast. If you're an ambitious achiever, checking all of the boxes, but know that there's more for you, more impact you know can make on your terms. Join us each week for inspiration, tools and business mentorship to help you break through what's holding you back and take imperfect action one step at a time as you create more impact, putting your gifts to work and doing I'm Amanda Edwards and I'm so glad you're here. If you are desperately wanting to feel more authentic and feel more natural when you're selling, I've created an audio training with a workbook for you to really help you connect with your current and future clients. And it's a series of ideas that you can use to plant seed with them and connect more deeply in all of your communications, whether that's social media content, email your conversations and you'll do this and you'll nurture them and connect with them before you even sell anything so that you're not going from not communicating to all of a sudden you have something to sell, but they're not ready yet. And so that's what series of ideas is for. It's going to prepare your clients for your offer and the next steps to work with you. And even if you don't have the offer to sell yet or you're really working up a new one, don't wait to show up. Now is when you can really be connecting with people and laying the foundation. And so that's what this training is going to help you do. You can grab it at the link in the episode description. I hope you enjoy, Chris. Hello. It is so great to have you on the show. I'm excited about this topic and so thank you for being Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's dive in. Tell us a little bit about what you do and kind of just the background about how you help your entrepreneurs, really get their website copied, dialed in. The people that I work with are just, they're very busy and they do not have time to write their own website and they don't have time to learn about how to write their website. So my process gets the whole website copy thing dialed in, gets you telling a story that truly connects and sells for you in two and a half hours flat. I love it. And my background is really around, I started out in graphic design about 20 years ago, and as time evolved and websites became more and more important, I got into that and I kind of started out believing that if you had a beautiful website design, that was all you really needed. And then time continues on and we start to really learn that it's more about the messaging than it is about the design. At the beginning of the web era, you used to really be able to get away with a great design and not have to say much. And so it's evolved now. I really feel like copy is king. You've got to be telling a story, you've got to be connecting with your audience, and then the design is really secondary. It's there to really support your message. Yeah, I love it. So true. We were talking about this the other day actually, just that concept in general. And my heart is in messaging, positioning, and sales for women in business. And we were talking a little bit before recording just about, I really, it's helping create that feeling of authenticity, that feeling of enthusiasm and excitement and being connected to that meaning behind what you're doing and that drive for why you're doing it in the first place and showing up and having these conversations in a very real way instead of that just where you feel like something's off or you're worried about being offputting and you're not feeling like you're in alignment, feels forced, all these things. And I love it because I think this is so much in alignment with that. And so I'm really interested today in talking through with I love that and how you really incorporate that into your work around helping people create their story. Because when we were talking before recording too, I was saying that it's like we all fundamentally that you should start incorporating more story into your messaging and into your conversations. But I think people get stuck, and I want you to comment on this, but I think people get stuck on what that looks like. What do I do? Do I just go out there and all of a sudden just tell a story or you always hear about your kind of origin story or a brand story? Is that it? Do I just go one time and tell that? And then I mean people have a hard time kind of piecing it together as far as what does that look like as an overall strategy, as an overall ongoing part of your business versus it's not just one story. So maybe if you could comment on that, walk us through that a little bit. It gets really confusing because I mean, no one can argue that you've got to be telling a story in your marketing and on your website, but even people that read books like Building a StoryBrand, which is an extraordinary book, kind of breaking down the components of story, there are a handful of them out there, but even when you educate yourself, it's still hard. It's still hard to go, okay, I understand the concept of story, but where do I begin on this blank piece of paper? And we've all grown up listening to or reading stories, getting stories read to us. And so I think automatically our brains go to okay, once upon a time or is it a once upon a time story? Is it a brand story? It about me? Who am I talking about? It's really challenging to figure out. So I think the most important thing to remember is that your story And for a lot of business owners, this is such a relief because people sit down at the computer and they're like, oh, I got to write about myself. I got to write about all the history of my working career. And it starts to feel like a resume or maybe even kind of braggy or whatever, just it might feel contrived, all the things. It just doesn't feel good. And so I love talking about story because it's such a relief for most people when you're like, oh yeah, your story is actually not about you. The key is really diving into who your ideal client is and articulating really clearly what their problem is. And I'm just going to repeat that because it's actually worth writing down. So clearly articulating what your ideal customers are struggling with. And I bet you can do that in one or two minutes because you've heard it When you get on your calls with them, they're struggling, they want to overcome a hurdle and they're frustrated or overwhelmed or however they articulate the problem. That's really what you want to hone in on because the reality is every story begins with a problem. And what's really cool is that when we can really think about this, we can really think about storytelling in the way we go to a movie. So I might go to a movie this afternoon, I go in and somehow magically with all the things going on in my life and all the messages coming in on my phone, I can forget about everything for nearly two hours. Nothing has the power to do that in this day and age other than storytelling. And that's the power of story. And when you think about the last movie you went to, I guarantee it started with a hero who had a problem. And that's how you're going to start your story too. And it really is as simple as articulating that problem that they're going through. So then about 20 minutes into every movie or every book enters in the guide and you are the guide to this story. So if we're talking about Karate Kid, you are Mr. Miyagi. If we're talking about Star Wars, you are Yoda. And so that's the beautiful thing is that you are a character in your story, you're inviting your customers and your clients into a story with you, but you don't have to be the hero. And one of the biggest mistakes that I see happen is guides. IE, the business owner paints themselves as the hero. And the thing about this is two important things. There's only room for one hero in every story. So when you're the hero of your own story on your website, you are immediately kicking your potential client out of the story. And secondly, the hero is the weakest character in the story. The guide is the strongest character in the story. The guide has been there, done that, and can show the hero the way to success. So there's a lot of reasons we don't want to be the hero of our own story, but Yeah, that's so good. And I want to comment before you go on, I know we have the hero, the problem, the guide, and I know there's more to follow, but real quick, I think that I love what you're saying there because you're talking about painting that picture, and I think whether it's a website or whether I see it a lot when I talk about messaging and any sort of content, even in a podcast episode when I'm talking to somebody about their podcast content or whether it's an email or something, when you hear something or you read something where somebody is even unintentionally, but they're positioning themselves as the hero and making it all about them. And I love how you said then there's no room for another hero. There's no room. The person on the other end has now checked out because they don't understand what's in it for them. They're now, this is not, I'm going to go onto the next email, I'm going to click to the next podcast episode. I don't need to hear about what's in it for me. How can I identify with this? How do I know that you understand what I'm dealing with and that are you the one who I actually trust to either give me the information, take my hand to walk me through it, whatever it is. So I love that you brought that up. And another thing when you were talking about the key is really taking your ideal client and articulating what they're struggling with. Do you find, I think it was key, like you said, that you need to take their words and use their words because I think sometimes as an expert in something or because you've been there, you've done that, you've had the experiences, you're now using this different language that they don't identify with yet, and they're like, well, that you're using either industry jargon or you're using some sort of acronym that they are not aware of yet, or you're jumping 10 steps ahead of where they are right now. And so I think it is key, like you said, I love using their words as you're telling the story. psychology that happens too when you begin by articulating your customer's problem. Our brains are constantly scanning the environment to figure out how we're going to survive and thrive. And a big way we do that is we try and figure out how to solve our own problems. We're problem solving machines basically. And so when someone articulates our problem really clearly, we automatically make this assumption. It's like magic. We automatically make this assumption that that person is the best one to solve the problem for me. So there's a bunch of cool things that happen. The other thing is when you begin with a problem, you open up a story loop and human nature, just because we sat around the fireside at the beginning of time telling stories, we are so wired for stories. So what the problem does is it opens up a story loop that our brains find a hundred percent irresistible. And so we can't help but engage. We can't help but keep scrolling or keep reading because we have to find out if problem, the guide. Continue to walk us through that. Sure. Yeah. You are the guide that is of the utmost importance. You are the guide and you become a guide through empathy and authority, and you become a guide by making sure your communications are really always centered around the hero. But one of the two most important things that the guide does is he gives the hero a plan. He or she gives the hero a plan to show them how if they follow that plan, they can reach success. And it doesn't have to be a complicated plan. A lot of times for my clients, the plan is schedule a call, get a customized estimate or get a custom roadmap and then experience this success. The third part of the plan is always that happy end result that you're going to reach. And so the plan is really an important part The hero wants to know what they need to do, what they can do next, tell me what to do. And so giving them that plan coupled with a really clear actionable call to action will set you up as the guide and it'll just reinforce the safety and the comfort that you're providing for the hero. The other important thing that every guide does is they paint a picture of what success looks like. And this kind of echoes back to your comment about what's in it for me? How am I going to benefit from this engagement? How am I going to succeed? How am I going to reach my goal? How am I going to feel? What's my life going to look like? And so we really want to clearly also clearly articulate that. What are the benefits of this? Are you going to find financial peace of mind if I'm a retirement planner, you might talk about financial peace If I'm a chiropractor, I talk about hike all the mountains that you want to hike or what adventures that you want to go on. So really painting a picture of that verbally and also with your visuals. I think that this is where great photography can come into play is really showing those emotions that people are going to feel when they have peace of mind or they feel fit and trim or whatever. They're going to feel like that emotion is kind of where we make decisions. So we think that we make decisions based on data and facts, but we really make them based on emotions so that painting that picture of success can be a great way to tap into emotion for people. I agree. I so agree. And I think there are some people I've heard will argue like, Nope, you make the decisions based on facts. You make the decisions based on data. There are maybe things in business where that's true, but in my world, the same realm where you're talking about sales as humans, you make decisions on emotions, period. You do period. Again, you can be intent, period. And so I think people don't want to hear that because it feels like there's data, there are facts, there's other things again that will maybe drive some certain decisions in your life or in your business that you're being very intentional about looking at a piece of data or whatever. But in general, we are emotional beings and that's how people, you need to connect Definitely. I think a lot of times, I mean so much of this happens subconsciously, so we might make that decision emotionally in our body, but then we're going to go find the facts and the data to support the decision Exactly. I love that. That is so true. Such a key little caveat there. That's very, very true because you'll find what you look for, you'll find any data to support what you've already made up in your mind to be true. Right, exactly. If you're looking for it. So true. One thing I want to circle back on, I think it's powerful, and I'll give somebody a tangible example because what I see a lot in the messaging world too is I love your example of the hiking. Go on all the hikes you want for a chiropractor. That message right there is very different than come and get your back in alignment. Well, that's what, sure. That's what's ultimately going to happen in order to allow the person who loves hiking, who hasn't been able to go hiking in three years and they're in constant pain and they can only walk for a couple blocks before they have to just sit down because their back's hurting, they don't know that that solution yet is getting their back into alignment or I'm oversimplifying, but whatever the chiropractor's going to do. So you have to speak to in their mind what the problem is, not what the problem is. It's the symptom that they're experiencing as a result of the problem, their symptom that's causing them pain. Yeah, it's the back, but really why that's a pain is because they can't go on the dang hikes. That's speaking to what's important to them. I just wanted to highlight that you brought that up and that is something I hear about a lot or I get in conversations a lot about when it comes to selling and positioning programs and services and products, and that comes up a lot on the messaging piece. reminding people of that quite a bit when I'm talking about the same thing, and I define that as you really want to tell them what they get, not the how they get it. So what they get is they get to go hiking again. How they get it is they get their back in alignment again. And it's not that they don't care about how at all, but we really want to double down on that, what they get, what is that happy end result? And don't get caught up in too many of the details. They're going to trust that you know how to get 'em there. Do you see, I am curious your thoughts. Do you see people who get caught up in the details or focusing more on the features of whatever it is that they're offering, their service, their product, their program? Do you see them getting so caught up in these features because they think that they have to sell all of the things that are included, like the 25 modules, the 25 templates, the five live call, all the things listed out because they feel like I've better provide enough of the stuff in order for it to be desirable. Instead of actually, if you had a statement about, to your point, what the actual result would be for somebody, they're much more that you could have one statement about that versus 25 bullets. It's going to be a lot Absolutely. And put the lead at more ease. I know when I am on a website and I'm interested in the end result, and then I look at all the features and the bonuses and I am like, oh, I don't have time. This is very overwhelming. And I've had experiences too just with clients who really want to push the features a lot. And again, it's not that you don't need any features, but you really want to just be very aware of not to overwhelm people with information. And I think a lot of times people talk about features versus benefits. They're very, very different. Very, very different things. The benefit is hero focused, and the feature is really positioning you as more of Totally. And that's just again, flat out that's what it is. And I don't think people realize that. So hopefully this helps to bring some of that awareness and maybe shifting some things, making some minor tweaks. I'm curious, where do you think that comes? I mean, you see it all the time, and I don't know if it's just an old school, kind of the marketing, I don't know. You just see that all the time or with you, and you have to think, what do you like to consume? What catches your attention? What really causes you to connect? But when I see a website that's listing off all these things, all these bullet points, but if you do this, it's this bonus and then this bonus later then. But if you choose to do this two months from now, I can't, lost me. Not even if I was interested. I'm not now because this is causing me Right. And that's such a good point because our brains are inundated with information. This is the world we live in. We've got information coming in from every angle, and we're really wired and our brains are even wired to really conserve calories. And so if you create a website that is causing the reader to burn too many calories to digest that information, they will bail biologically. They will bail. They won't even really know why. It's just like, this is taking too much of my energy to digest and I have to conserve because I have to survive. So I think that comes, I don't know. I think that that might come from maybe the way things used to be done, but my sense is that it comes from a couple things. Number one, people are really excited about what they're doing, and often they're just really generous at heart and wanting to share all the goodies and all the bonuses and all the value that they're willing to give, which is such a beautiful thing, but not always effective. And then I think I see it happening too with business owners that are maybe a little bit insecure about their offer. They're not really owning the transformation that they provide, and so they kind of fill up the gaps with features and benefits rather than, or features rather than benefits. Yeah. So good. Can you talk to us a little bit about, you talked about the guide and then how you become a guide is really through that empathy and authority, and I love that. I want you to speak to that a little bit. When you say empathy and authority, how does that show up? Yeah, so the beautiful thing is, I just want to make a quick point here before I forget it, is once you get your story dialed in, you do not have to redo it. You can echo this story again and again. It'll be on your website, on your social media, on all your marketing materials. But I wanted to share that because if you go through the process, you really articulate that problem and showing empathy is really picking one of those biggest problems that you've articulated and just saying, I know when you're in, we're going back to the chiropractor again. When you're in physical pain, it's hard to feel your best. And maybe one of the problems that they're coming to them with is, I just don't feel my best. I feel like the cranky version of me, I'm in pain all the time. My legs are cramped up. And so it's just really, it's that simple. It's really hard when your back is out and you're not feeling your best or writing your own website copy can feel really overwhelming. That is empathy right there. It's just kind of echoing the problem, but from a place of, I get it. I use, I get it a lot. I get it. This is hard. Which helps somebody identify with you or identify with the fact that you understand me, you're understanding how I'm feeling. You get me, I'm listening now. Maybe you're the one that I resonate with or that I trust to work with because you are understanding my problem and you're Right? And you are the one that can help me work through this. Because either you've done it or you've helped a lot of other people do Yeah. Do you want to talk about authority a little bit? Yeah. Authority is really also very easy. I mean, the beautiful thing about this is just when you really break it down, it's all quite simple. So authority is really just sharing the qualifications that you have. You only need about three. I would say pick two or three things, and it might be, I like to use numbers for authority. So it might be like eight years in business. And then you might want to count up on average if you're a coach on average, have you coached 10 people a year? So you might say, okay, on average I've coached 80 people or 10 people a year over eight years, over 80 happy clients. So that might be another bit of authority. You might show that you're certified as a coach by some bigger coach, like life coach school or something like that. So you can show us certification. Another great way to show your authority is through testimonials, and that's a whole another episode. But again, now that you're kind of understanding the fundamentals of story testimonials, follow that same rhythm you want to talk about. When you gather testimonials from your clients, you ask them, what was the problem that you were experiencing before you hired me? And then what was the happy end result that you experienced through working with me? What were some of the successes that you experienced? And then really that right there, that contrast shows the transformation that you created for them. So in a way, the testimonials are also kind of a mini story in and of themselves. And one of the key things about testimonials is you don't want to silo them out on their own page because they're so powerful, they're so effective. They do so much heavy lifting for you that a lot of people put them on another page. And then if I don't make it to that page, I've missed all your powerful testimonials. So I think it's really important to weave about three testimonials, make sure they speak to the transformation that you provide and Yeah. Yeah. So good, so valuable. What else did we not touch on that you want to be sure and leave us with before we sign off? I think the biggest thing, I mean, I think we've really hit hard on starting with the problem, but what I want to remind your audience is that this works for everything. If you are about to do a social media post, start with the problem. If you're going to be interviewed on a podcast, start with the problem that you solve. If you're filling out your LinkedIn profile or your Instagram profile, start with the problem and then make sure you show that your service is the solution that will bring them to success. And really, those are the fundamentals of story. And as long as you position yourself as the guide and them as the hero, you're golden. And then the other thing is a story doesn't have to be very long. It can be two or three sentences. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Love it. Thank you. And I think the key thing here, I hope such an aha moment for people listening is that the story actually isn't about you at all. There are going to be times sure where you go in and you talk about your brand story, you talk about all the other stories that you hear about, but the most important story that is going to help you connect with the people who you're there to serve, that's help you connect at another level and who is going to say, yes, this is who I want to work with because they understand me, is this type of a story. It's not actually about you at all. And so I think it's so powerful. I appreciate you Where can people find you and connect with you if they Yeah, so my copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat program is@grow.red door designs.com. That's grow.red door with two ds and designs with an S on the end.com. And you can find out all about what I offer there, and if you go to red door designs.com, you'll find some freebies and some free Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. We'll talk to If you love this episode, I would love to hear from you, and you can do that by sharing this on Instagram and tagging me at imperfectly ambitious so I can see what you're liking. Or you could leave a rating or a review on your podcast app. And that not only means so much to me, but it helps to get this in front of more people. Or you could share this episode with a friend or a colleague who might need to hear it either way. I appreciate you and I love being here with you each week. We'll talk to you soon. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/confident-woman ### Title: How to Write Compelling Website Copy That Sells For You, with Rachel Brooks and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4938416 ### Content: ## How to Write Compelling Website Copy That Sells For You The Confident Woman Podcast, with Rachel Brooks and Kris Jones How to Write Compelling Website Copy That Sells For You, with Rachel Brooks and Kris Jones **Struggling to create website copy that truly captivates your audience? The secret to success might not be what you think.** Join me in a heartfelt conversation with Rachel Brooks, where we delve deep into the art of crafting compelling website copy.  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Craft a narrative that guides clients on their hero's journey, building trust through connection. ? Learn one tweak you can use in everything you write that will truly connect you to your audience. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Hey there and welcome to the Confident Woman Podcast. I'm your host Rachel Brooks. Join me as a sit down with co-host, friends, and carefully curated guests as we talk about all the things that empower you to become your best, most confident self so you can step boldly into who you were Welcome back to another episode of the Confident Woman Podcast. Today we have with us Chris Jones. Chris Jones is a StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Designs, mentored by StoryBrand founder Donald Miller himself. And with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike under her belt, she's extremely passionate about helping self-employed women get website copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. So welcome. Chris, tell us a little bit more about you. Oh, I'm excited Yeah, I'm really, really looking forward to chatting with you. Yeah, so essentially I live in Portland, Oregon, and I have been doing this work of marketing for 20 years now, which is kind of nutty to even think about, but I'm very passionate about it because I am incredibly inspired by creating freedom. And I love the freedom that being self-employed has created for my own life, and I want that for others who are interested in dipping their toe in to entrepreneurship or being self-employed. I just think it's a beautiful path and I love to support people in that journey. When I started working around 20 years ago, I really focused on brand and branding and design, and that eventually evolved into website design, and that was really my sole focus. But through the years I recognized that branding and design don't work And so I really went on a mission to crack the code behind what makes a story, what makes website copy work, how do you talk about your own business in a way that gets other people really excited to work with you? And what happened was I eventually became a StoryBrand certified guide, and prior to that though, I would have clients come to me wanting me to build them a website and they would just pull their hair out trying to write their own copy. It was truly torture and it would disrupt the timeline of the project. It would cause them so much grief and pain. And I was just over it. I'm like, I'm not willing to let my clients struggle like this anymore, so let's figure it out. And through learning about the book, building a StoryBrand, and also just diving really, really deep into everything around how to tell a good story, I evolved my business into really focusing on not only helping entrepreneurs craft a clear message, but to create a message that's really aligned with who they are and to do it, to be able to do it in 2.5 hours flat. And this process doesn't leave anybody to do it on their own, which I think is the hardest part. We're just so close to our own selves and our own business. It's just really hard to talk about yourself. We're just Yeah, I was just going to say that too. And I was just thinking, I actually just did a full relaunch on my website and I had to encounter that it was start writing about yourself and you're like, how do you sum it up in the three spaces that are available? Because a website is so limited. And it's kind of funny that you had just mentioned, I literally just walked through this in the past couple of weeks, and I think it's so important to really take that step back as you were saying, how do we get to that point where we could see disconnect the personal from the professional side, so you can see it from a different vantage point. And I know that with StoryBrand, that's what they do. It's the work that's really extracting that story that's inside of you and your message or personal experience or what it is and how it tailors to that product or service that you offer. And so I'm curious to know how to write compelling copy that sells in two and a half hours flat. Tell me more about that. Because like I said, I was about to write it to rip my hair I mean, there's nothing worse than just staring at a blank screen going, what? I can't find the right words. Exactly. I want to start by just sharing and letting your audience off the hook around how hard it is to write for yourself and why that is. So this is something I call the bottle effect. And essentially when we are our own business, it's like we're inside of a bottle trying to read a label that can only be read from the outside of the bottle. So I think a lot of us are like, well, if I just persevere, I keep trying or I push my way through and it's like it feels impossible because it is impossible to put yourself outside of the bottle. And it's very hard to read that label clearly from inside the bottle. So that's really the first thing And then the second one is the curse of knowledge. So if you've been in your industry for any amount of years, you are an expert at it and you've really forgotten what it's like to not know what. And so you start communicating with people in a way that they, as if they understand the nuances of your industry, and yet someone new to you doesn't know that yet. And so it's really hard to write in a way that's simple and clear, and these two things are both going on at the same time, which is why we want to pull our hair out when we write our own copy. So story brand's amazing. I highly recommend everybody get the book, everybody should read it if you're really wanting to delve deep into story and what creates a story. But reading the book doesn't really solve that problem of being inside the bottle and needing somebody to be outside the And the struggle that I have observed over many, many, many years is that number one, people try and write their own copy and it's just torture. And then number two, they muster up enough money and sometimes a lot of money, sometimes it's like $10,000 for a web page and they hire a copywriter to write it for them. And that copywriter goes off and writes in the silo, they're doing their best job, but their voice is not your voice. So when you get the copy back, it just feels off. It just doesn't feel like your voice. It just doesn't integrate with the nuances of your industry. And so when you already don't have enough time, it ends up taking more time than if you were to write it yourself because the back and forth and the revisions and the revisions. And so it's just a giant pickle that we all get in when we're trying And really the way out of that situation is through collaborative copywriting. And that is the offer that's pretty much the main offer that I do with my clients. And it happens in two hours, two and a half hours flat because I know how to ask the right questions that are going to extract the right information out, and then we really do it collaboratively. So then you're not every step of the way that it's really aligned with your voice and yet you've got an expert with you by your side to make sure that the strategy is there and to help get rid of all the noise and keep only what's Story. Oh my goodness, that's so helpful what you just said, having that collaborative effort and for personal experience and being on both sides, it's like I'm in that bottle and I'm also trying to write it, which I know is a big old mass. And then also taking that time intentionally to step out. And even if it's not as personally close to me, but yet it's an extension off of me or something that's still related or associated with me, we still don't have that clarity that it would be if you had somebody who is skilled in that department to really extract that, as you said. And then on the other side of the coin is kind of that aspect where if you shared with whoever's writing your copy along the lines of what you're looking for, sometimes they take that as a matter of fact, here it is, those were the five points, and sometimes they don't really polish it. So like you said, it feels off. It's missed the mark because you want somebody that understands those topics to a degree that they can enhance upon. And so does these five things, and it's the kind of meat and potatoes aspect of it. And sometimes if you're too close to it, you get the meat potatoes, the side dishes, the dessert and the Togo boxes a little bit too potatoes. But from personal experience, I am kind of on both sides of those fences, so I can really resonate a lot of the pain points that you had just talked about. And also just when you tell me that two and a half hours flat, the pain point to me is like, whoa, how is this possible? So I'm curious to know, what do you think is that most important thing that comes to creating copy around the story brand? So how is that possible? Yeah, okay. Well, essentially I'll start by sharing the fundamentals of every story you've ever read, every movie you've ever watched, they all have essentially the same recipe. And we use that same formula in our website, and I'll talk through that next. But the formula for creating a really compelling story is this, A hero has a problem. So number one, a hero has a problem. Number two, that hero meets a guide with a solution. And number three, the hero finds success. So I'm going to repeat it one more time just so you kind of get it into your memory. Number one, a hero has a problem and the key to remember here is that you're not the hero. Your clients is the hero. And then that hero meets a guide with the solution. You are the guide as the business owner. And then number three, the hero finds success. So as the guide, we really help them envision what success looks like and remind them that the way and this what's possible for you after you solve this problem. I like that. And I feel like what you just said, the formula is applicable, and if anyone's watched movies or read books, that makes total sense. It's like you just clicked it all together and you being the owner of your brand, how different than would your brand be in those case scenarios? So now it's like the books to the movies to the business, I love that. And the thing that I see out there just 99% of the time, most people get this wrong, and it's just purely because it's unintentional. Everybody is doing their best and they're trying to write copy for their own website and they're thinking, what the heck do I talk about? I guess I should talk about me. This is my website. And what I want to share with you today is to kind of think about that differently. So what we really want to do is instead of telling our story, we want to invite our client into a narrative with us where they're the hero of the story and we are the guide in the story. And if you watch any movie, you'll see that that hero, the movie begins with a hero with a problem. The guide doesn't even enter into the story until about 20 minutes into the movie or maybe 50 pages into the book. So this is kind of a load off for a lot of business owners to recognize like, oh, this isn't all about me. If I really hone in on my hero's problems, so my client's problems, then they're going to feel seen, they're going to feel heard, they're going to feel connected with me. And the more we articulate their problem and the struggle that they're going through immediately they think that we are the best ones to solve it. So all of a sudden we start building trust and connection. And we haven't even talked about ourself yet. We've only talked about the hero and their problem. And so it's just such a relief when you really implement this formula because it just becomes so much easier to write and it becomes so much more enjoyable to write And like you said, it lets you off the hook and it's like how many times do we sit down, not even just a website copy, but our social media posts or just an email or something like that. We sometimes might overthink it or under deliver because we're not putting ourselves in this step-by-step kind of guidance to get that individual to recognize that whether it's you that's the solution or the product or the service, or maybe a collaboration, whoever that is, you want to position yourself as I have the answer to your struggles or problems or pain points, whatever that may be. And then using those conversations or the verbiage in your copy to translate that in hopes that individual is like, this is the answer that I've been looking for and I need to buy or hire or talk or whatever that call to action or that transaction happens to be is putting yourself in the situation of that Right? Yeah, I think you make a really, really good point. I do this mostly for people on their website, but the formula applies to literally every piece of copy you write, every email you put out there, every social media post that you create, every profile that you fill in on your social media or LinkedIn, it works for everything. And that's why it's so incredibly powerful. And the other thing it does is that it just does the work for you of selling, right? You don't have to sell so hard because you're using the words and allowing them to do the work for you. Yeah, it's very much so. And it's like if you just kind hit the nail on the head with your messaging, then it delivers. I love that. I guess going back a little bit to where you were saying being in the bottle, trying to read the label a little bit too close, and correct me if I'm wrong because either experienced it or have witnessed this in some of the ladies that I've worked with as well. It's like when you ask 'em, well, what is the problem you're trying to solve? Sometimes it's even hard to sum that up into one thing, right? Because when we look at it from that perspective, there's one thing that triggers this thing, but it ties in with that thing and it's going to fall. So all these things feel connected. Do you help extract that also so that it's very crystal clear on that message that's tailored to the campaigns or the marketing plan to launch that product or service or whatever that is? Absolutely. That is part of the process. I mean, when we try and do this work alone, we fumble around, we second guess ourselves, we edit, edit, we write, we type, we delete, we type, we delete. And what I do is help guide you and really do the heavy lifting for you. So you might write down three things or might share with me three things, and I'll say, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That third one, that's the one. And what we really want to remember too is that we want to meet your client where they are. So as experts, we know what their fundamental problems are, and sometimes they're different than what our client comes to us with. So Sally might come to you and say, this is my problem. And you'll say, okay, I get it, I hear you. But really her deeper problem is that she doesn't have a marketing plan or whatever it is. So we don't want to muddy the waters there. We just want to say in their words, what are the problems when you get on the phone with them that they share with you? Yeah, I love that. And it's so true. I mean, I've kind of been on both sides and I was like, ah, okay. So yes. And so even just on the conversing side, like you had said, when our clients come to us and they're like, okay, but this is X, Y, and Z, and you're like, okay. And so it's kind of funny to see yourself step back from that perspective because when we're too close to our own work, it gets all muddy, like you said. And I always like to the works that you do, I like to say it's kind of like it's Monet, it's like our craft. So up close, it's a big old mess, but we have to take that step back to see the beautiful creations that we just put together. And sometimes when we're too close to it, that one little stipple or the one little brush stroke can really change the entirety of that piece that you are working on. And so kind of knowing when to push the gas and pull back and push on the brake is so helpful. And I love that you really take that, as you said, the heavy lifting and helping your clients to really refine and define and know when to push and pull back. So that's incredible. And so you have that formula with the recognizing the story brand part of it, and then coming out as a step-by-step guide. So what would you say for website copy, what are some of the must haves for websites? I know we want to put everything on and sometimes like, listen, we didn't come to here, read about your entire life. What are some of the must haves, because we always feel like, but it's so important. What are those sections that you would suggest for every female Well, you really need to be able to clearly communicate what you do. So if I were an accountant, I would say I'm an accountant for people in Portland, Oregon. You don't want to have to make people work to find out what you do. So that's kind of the first thing you want on the website. You want to help them answer that question, what does this person do and how's that going to make my life better? So once you've got that out of the way, then I would immediately go into what I call the problem section. So articulating that problem, come up with three bullets that really articulate the problem. So for my clients, it would be you're stuck because you're not sure what to say when you open up a document or a social media post. You don't have time to write And when you hire a copywriter, not only is it expensive, but it doesn't really feel aligned with your voice. So I would just really get into the heads and the hearts of your clients and articulate three-ish problems that they're struggling with. And then one of the most important things that you can do on your website is really show them what success looks like. So this was really step three in the formula. So you really want to show them, and it's interesting, this part people also struggle with because they tend to talk about the features, here's the benefits of working with me. And again, I just want to remind you to get out of the hero role and be the guide. A guide doesn't try and be flashy with features. A guide says, here's where I can take you and here's possible for you. So for my clients, I'm just using this as an So for my clients, it's not really about the copy, it's about what can happen in their life once they have copy that's completely dialed in. So all kinds of things happen. I mean, the most immediate one is just you start to make more money because people immediately want to work with you. If you're clear, you're not wasting their time, you're confident, they understand how you're going to benefit their life. So first off, with clear copy, you're going to make more money. Secondly, you're going to show up with more confidence because you not only have a website that's working for you 24 7, but you speak about your business differently. Once you have those words, you can more confidently communicate what you do. And then the third thing that happens is you just get more freedom. You don't waste your time on sales calls and trying to explain yourself over and over again because you've got tools flexibility. And I mean, who doesn't want that? So that's just an example of me showing you as the guide me showing you what's possible for you. And I would want you to do that same thing for your clients. Show them what's possible. If back to the bookkeeping thing, if I'm a bookkeeper, what's possible for this person if their books are completely dialed in, if their taxes are nailed ahead of schedule, what happens for those people? They don't have to stress about it. They're not fumbling around trying to figure out their receipts. Maybe they're more confident with their finances, maybe they have the time to think about what they want to invest in now that they've got their finances in order. So I would just encourage you guys to look at the peak of the mountain. What is it, the peak of the mountain, and ultimately what are they going to get after And I love that you had just mentioned that too. And I think when we look at sales pages or any of the copies, sometimes we read about all the things that you can get if you buy the product or services like all the bells and the whistles, and it's flashy and sounds all well and good because you want to know like, oh, but if I invest X, Y, and Z, I'm going to get these bonuses. And those are pretty cool, but yet the bells and the whistles aren't going to sell because you're just slapping some band-aids on the problems. So you could sign off on a cast and make it all pretty and stuff, but underneath you're still got the issues at hand. And so very, very great point there. Is that how you had said it's about guiding them through the processes so that you are presenting it in a way that they've already as a reading through your copy, they're already imagining them walking through the solutions, the steps, and A bonus like, oh, and I get these things. How cool is this? I'm up right now, take my credit card. But if I don't really know, but oh, well, if they got these bonuses, I mean that's cool, but I don't know if it's worth my credit card. And so at that point, there's that disconnect and that customer or potential lead would opt out and move on to the next individual that might be suitable for getting them to that next step. And I assume that you probably see that quite often, especially if somebody's too close to their work as we call it here, that they don't really see how they're able to navigate through the customer's journey if they don't see that with clarity. Definitely. Absolutely. Yeah, that's so true. And you bring up a good point about the bonus list too, because it's not like you shouldn't have those things. There is a time and a place for them, but you really want to earn the trust and establish that connection and also establish your role as the guide and their role as the hero and help them really understand how you can make their life better and how you can help them avoid failure, quite frankly. And once you've done all that, once you've kind of crafted this story, then of course people do want to dive in a little bit deeper to dot the i's and cross the T's on some fun bonuses that you're going to offer or what are maybe some details about the program or the course, but that's really And then on the other side going that StoryBrand route versus the individual who tries to DIY it then like, okay, I'm just going to piecemeal this together and do it myself. So what do you think are some of those pitfalls that somebody who is DIYing it versus somebody who hires out an expert, what are the pitfalls, what are obviously from having to redo it again or something like cost effectiveness, when do you think it's time to hire a professional copywriter to capture your brand story versus keep going to bat Yeah, I love that question because depending on where you are in your journey, the answer could vary. But the reality is there are so many incredible web website builders out there. I mean, that's no mystery, right? We've got Squarespace and all the things, even Kajabi, they're all very intuitive and easy to build on, and they have these templates that are kind of pre-designed for you. And so in many ways they're pretty foolproof. And this is something that I would say, okay, so if you're going to DIY it build your own website, but save up the money to collaborate with a writer who knows what they're doing, whether it's me or somebody else, you cannot get outside of that bottle without help from somebody else. And that might be a friend or a neighbor or a family member. But what you really want is somebody who's familiar with the architecture of storytelling and somebody who can ask you the And so I really think that if you don't want to spend any money at all, buy the book, or if you only want to spend $15, buy the book Building a StoryBrand and then go to clarity with chris.com. And I have a freebie there. It's how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. It's a five-ish minute video and I walk you through how to craft your story, and then I give you an opportunity at the end to schedule a free call with me to get feedback. So that's really kind of the most affordable way to get familiar with copy. And then if you're ready to invest, I mean the work that I do, it only it's 29 97, so it's 2,997. It's ridiculously affordable for what you get. And essentially that offer is all about you and me collaborating together to craft your website copy. So it is just working for you, your top sales employee 24 7. And that's for people who are just like, they're busy, they just need it done in 2.5 hours flat, and they want it done, but they also really want it to be That's so good. And so you kind of hit the different stages that some of us women are in it, whether we're just getting started and we can only afford to DIY it. And having some of those tools and kind of tips to get to that point. And it's not saying you can't write your own copy is eventually as you grow your business, you're going to grow your budget, which then you want to up uplevel that. And so there's different stages and you probably don't necessarily recommend, I mean, somebody who's coming on board as a complete newbie startup, just going all in and hiring out a copywriter, then technically you haven't even had that experience yet in your business then to really articulate it, I guess, and to deliver it. And I could be wrong there. I'm just speaking a little bit from experience and also from, again, what I'm hearing from some of our ladies is that, do I have to go all in? I'm just starting out. I don't have that budget. Can I do these things on my own? And the answer is yes, absolutely. And as you grow, you'll realize that you have outgrown your own voice and your own copy and your own criteria or your own limits, and more importantly your own time. And that's kind of where you might be on the fence saying, Hey, listen, I really want to uplevel and if I want to uplevel and grow, I have to uplevel my copy, my website, my offers, my products and services. And that's where you can bring on somebody like Chris or before Chris read the book and understand how that kind of goes. And so there's different stages, and I love that you walk our listeners through that because you're anyone who's listening can, but I'm not And I think it's so important to kind of touch upon that because you don't have to be ready and you don't have to have everything all figured out, but just getting started is the number one thing that you can do today. And so like you said, with your offer firm, you can't go wrong. Go there and fill it out and discovery call with you. And I mean, could she make it any more easier? Seriously. So this has been incredible. I mean, you fill out the form, you do all the stuff and you follow up with you, and then that's where you get that connection call. And having Chris's feedback, I mean, I see so Yeah. And I just want to echo your point that you just shared, which was the way I heard it was there's nothing more valuable than just doing the work itself, the work that you're doing. So you can learn about your clients, you can learn about the type of people you like working with, and you can learn about the type of work you love doing. So I guarantee you, if you were just starting literally today that you might write some copy that feels true for you, and then in a year from now you'll revisit it and you'll be like, oh, yeah, look, I learned so much like six months in or eight months in, and now I'm clearer on the people I want to work with, and I'm clearer on the hurdles that they're wanting to overcome and that you can help them overcome. So I think sometimes what gets missed in this culture of just entrepreneurship, and this is what you need to do, is giving yourself the grace of taking six months to a year of literally just doing the work and feeling your way through it and feeling the rhythm of the type of work and letting that organically And then coming in and starting to do your copy. You don't have to go all in right on the get go. Definitely not. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you have the time, you can, but most of us are pretty busy and there's two free resources that I shared with you that aren't very time consuming. And then give it some time and then dive Yeah, absolutely. And you make such a great point there. If you're just starting out, give yourself that time six months to a year and kind of almost at that point insert yourself and do some pro bono work because then you get the hands on experience and before you invest all the money up front to go out, unless you have a hundred percent certain clarity and the budget to do so, then you can go. But anyone who's just starting out, and you might just be like, oh, I'm a hundred percent going all in on my fitness coaching business. And then you get into the fitness coaching business, you're like, yeah, this isn't exactly the direction I want to go. I want to tailor more towards nutrition or mindset or something like that. But if you've already spent that money upfront, you got to go back and do it again. So that's why proceed with caution, I guess, would be the advice that I would suggest. And maybe a little bit from you, Chris, at least just know what you are getting Yeah, I dunno if I would say proceed with caution. I would say dive in and follow your heart and do the work, but have fun with it and learn and keep iterating. And I guess that's what I want to say is it's an iterative process, so proceed with caution if you're going to blow a bunch of money on someone to do it for you and you're just starting for sure, yes, Totally, totally agreed, agreed. And if you're really excited about what you're about to do and you really want to get good at it and quickly then learn the fundamentals of story, keep iterating, he going through my freebie and refining it, do the same freebie every couple months and see how it evolves and changes over time. And that's probably the most powerful thing you can do, is to really dive in with both feet and get familiar with how to tell a compelling story. And then that way you can use it in literally every So true. And once you really own that story, that story has power and it will just deliver for you, like you said, running auto automatically in the background through your website, through your written copy for websites, social media, emails, whatever that is. And so owning that is so powerful. And even the story brand itself really encapsulates that because again, when you're telling that story, it's that connection. And even right before Chris and I hopped on, I was just telling her about a new term that I had learned, and it kind of plays off a little bit of the storytelling, but it's called client telling. And if you are in the service of selling or retail or e-commerce or any of that, that client telling is similar to the storytelling. You get to learn the narrative of your clients so that they're telling you what they're looking for, what they shop the most, how often they shop, what their frequency, their needs, their expectations are. And so you learn a lot from your client telling that can be used into your brand storytelling. And so bringing those two, if you're kind of a little trick that I just learned, but I don't know if it's been around for a while, but I just I haven't heard that term before, but I really love it. And the way I interpret that term, client telling is really positioning your communication in a way that invites your client into a narrative with you. So your communication is based on what's important to your client, what do they care about? And if we do nothing else, that's the most powerful thing that we can do with our communication is really deeply care about our clients and communicate to them around the things that they care about and that matter to them, their dreams, their pains, their struggles, their goals, all of that stuff that we're all kind of scanning the environment. It's really interesting. I don't like sharing this fact, but everybody knows it to be true because it sounds kind of negative. But as humans, we really only care about ourselves. Of course. We love our family and of course we have friends and we care about other people, but we're wired to scan the environment around us to figure out how we can survive and thrive. And that's why our brains turn off when we're reading copy. That's boring because there's a switch in our head, in our brain that goes, not helping me survive and thrive off moving on to the next post. And so when we know that and we understand that our brains are wired to figure out how we're going to survive and thrive, then you base your communication So good. And that's so true. It is that as much as we don't want to say, but yeah, we are very self-centered in that the ecosphere that we're in, we only see things from our own perspective and our own lens. So that's how it kind of passes through our self filtration system. So we have to have that center self focal point, but we got to be wise with that intention And that's why we've survived and thrived as humans. I mean, this is why we're the species that we are is because we are wired that way. So it's not a bad thing, but it's really an eye-opening thing when you Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has just been an incredible conversation, and I know that you've delivered such value from just bringing some highlights to the bullet points to what to look for, what not to look for, and all the goods, and of course, the free stuff that you are giving out for our listeners, and knowing that whether they don't know what they're getting into or just have some questions, taking that free, your free mini training series, compelling copy, and knowing that they can click back on a link and have a conversation with you about it. And so that's incredible because you don't know until you have that sometimes, like you said, where me, myself, and I, it's great to have a fresher perspective or somebody who's experienced in there to help bring in some clarity, some direction, and sometimes just somebody to kind of help hash out what you're working through. Yes, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. So the freebie is at Clarity with Chris, and my name is with a K, Chris with a K, clarity with chris.com. And then you can also check out my offer@reddoordesigns.com. It's red door designs.com, and I'll walk you through Awesome. And of course, all that will be in our show notes. And if anyone wants to follow along with you on your social media, how can somebody reach out? Is your website your best contact or which one would be Definitely check out my website. That would probably be the best place to connect with me. And then you can also find me on Instagram Awesome. Alright, well, all of that will be in the show notes below, so be sure to check that out. And I just want to thank you, Chris, for coming on and just sharing your awesome wisdom and just your experience and everything that you have delivered for us today. So thanks so much. Thank you, Rachel. It was really a pleasure to be here. Hey there. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of The Confident Woman Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode as much as I did, please be sure to subscribe and leave us a review. Thanks again for *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/high-impact ### Title: The Storytelling Framework That Will Make You More Sales, with Katie Bambrick and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4938500 ### Content: ## The Storytelling Framework That Will Make You More Sales ## The High Impact Podcast, with Katie Bambrick and Kris Jones The Storytelling Framework That Will Make You More Sales, with Katie Bambrick and Kris Jones **Ever wondered how to simplify your content to get more sales? Well, I thought you’d never ask.** In a recent conversation with Katie Bambrick, we discussed how to write a compelling narrative that converts more clients. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Many entrepreneurs struggle with knowing what to say and get stuck in repetitive messaging. We’ll help you get unstuck. ? Sales calls can be uncomfortable. We’ll show you how not to let your confidence waiver. ? We’ll also show you how to captivate your audience with engaging stories that drive conversions. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Hey guys. So a few years ago I read a book. It was called, I mean I've read a few books in a few years, but this specific book that I'm talking about is called How to Build a StoryBrand, and it's by a man named Donald Miller. And the reason why I'm talking about this is because today's guest actually trained with Donald Miller, and this is what she does for a living. Her name's Chris Jones and she talks about how to attract more clients through effective storytelling. So most business owners know that telling a story on their website's important, but they don't really know where to begin. So Chris is going to share with us the StoryBrand framework that focuses on three ways to get a website that sells for you and not just a website, but you can use them on sales calls. You can use this in your copywriting, you can use this anywhere that you have any kind of presence, and you are going to gain a really solid understanding of the fundamentals of storytelling. So you can start to leverage the power of story in all of your marketing materials to increase revenue and simplify your business. And it sounds amazing and it sounds too good to be true almost, but honestly, you're going to get so much from this episode because they're really tangible strategies. And actually, Chris and I even went through the framework on this podcast episode and we did it with my program sold out stories. So it'll make it really tangible for you, really easy to understand for you. And I'm really looking forward for you guys to listen to this one. And here is Chris. So Chris, can you just tell us a little bit about what you do because it is quite unique. I was just talking to you previously before we started recording, and you said, has anyone ever come on the podcast before and talked about this? And I was like, no, they haven't. We've had people talk about branding and design and content, but not quite in the way that you help people. So yeah, just give us a little rundown on what it is exactly that you do. Okay, great. Well, thank you for having me here, Katie. I'm really, really excited to be talking to your audience and talking to you. You too. And so I'll give you a little bit of a backstory. I've been doing this work for over 20 years now, which is insane, but I love it more than anything in the world. So it's just been an incredible journey. And I started out doing branding and design work, and that was really my passion was all about telling story through visuals. And eventually I got more and more into website design and time after time, my clients would come to me and I would say, okay, well we're going to start the website design on, let's just say the first of the month. I'll need your copy before we get started. And they'd say, well, what should I write? I mean, I don't know what to write. I'm like, you can do it. You can do it. You can figure it out. Hire a copywriter, ask a friend. And more often than not, they would say a few things, but the most common was, well, I'm a pretty good writer. I'm a decent writer. I'm sure I can do this. Or My husband's a great writer, or I'll hire a writer. And ultimately it just turned into this giant sticking point in the process. And after years of watching this happen, I just decided I am not going to put my clients through this anymore. This is a major sticking point. It's really hard. Nobody can figure it out. Even when a copywriter is hired, often that doesn't really feel resonant with the client because it wasn't their own voice. So it was this real pickle that they were in where they needed it to really feel authentic and aligned to them because they were the business. But yet when they outsourced to a copywriter, that was someone else's voice. So it felt like there was this disconnect and then we'd start with the website design process. So it was not the best way to start out a project. And in about 2016, 2017, I had just had enough and I was like, you know what? I am going to crack the code on this. I'm going to figure out what makes incredible website copy that feels aligned with your voice. And how do we do this in a way that's not such a headache for clients? Because often writing for your own business kind of feels like torture for a lot of business owners. So I got introduced to Donald Miller from building a StoryBrand and got to work with him and trained with him and started implementing the approach and the And it was mind blowing what happened to their businesses. It always blew me away, even though I knew it worked and I watched it work time and time again, it didn't matter what industry or even what size of company, the storytelling approach just worked. And it helped my clients start growing their businesses making more money and feeling way more confident about how they talked about their business because when we would create this website copy for them, it wasn't just their website copy, it actually became the way they spoke about their business. It became the way they wrote about their business and other platforms outside of their website. So it was really transformative. And now it ended up working out so well that that's all I do, and that's all I do. I work with clients and we create their website copy together. So they're not alone trying to do it in a silo and they're not hiring a copywriter to go do it in a silo. It's a collaborative process that we do together. And it only takes 2.5 hours flat because we're all busy people. Nobody wants to spend three days writing copy for their business. And so the whole process is really streamlined and we do it under three hours. So it's great. That's extremely fast. I'm surprised it takes such a short amount of time because I know that I work with one-on-one clients privately, and a lot of people do struggle with copywriting. But what you said before, and I think actually you said it before we started talking, we started recording the podcast, is that branding and design won't work unless you have a clear compelling story. So it's almost like the story forms the basis of everything else you do and it informs your copy, it informs your audience of who you are and makes them want to work with you. So how do you then go about creating a compelling story? What does that even look like? What does that even mean? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, the reality is I think it's kind of common knowledge that storytelling in business is a really important thing to do. But then people are like, okay, well then what does that mean? Does that mean I have to talk about myself? Do I talk about my history? What exactly does that mean? And the truth is, in business, when you're telling a story, really what you're doing is you're inviting your clients into a narrative with you where you both play roles in the story and how it works. Every story, I'm going to break down the formula first story for you, which will probably ruin every movie or book that you ever read in the future. But this is really what it all boils down to in the most simple of terms. So the first thing that happens in every story is a hero has a problem. And then the second thing that happens, that hero meets a guide with a solution. And then the third thing that happens is the hero finds success. So that's it. And when you use that formula, it translates like let's just say for a website, it translates this. So a hero has a problem. The key here is really your client is the hero. You are not the hero. Your client is always the hero. And if you kind of take nothing else from this conversation, write that down is that your clients are the hero of the story and all the communication that you speak to is really around the problem that they have. What's the problem that your clients have that inspires them or motivates them to reach out to you to help them with it? So they reach out to you. You're the And the guide doesn't really enter into any book or any movie until about 20 minutes into the book or movie. So we don't want to start out our website talking about ourselves. And when this happens, which is 99% of the websites out there on the internet, the business owner is positioning themselves as the hero instead of the guide. And we do that by talking about ourselves, using a lot of i, me, we type of language. But the reality is the hero is the weakest character in the story because we're not sure if they're going to find success or if they're going to fail. But the guide character in every story, they've been there, done that. If you think about Mr. Miyagi or Yoda, totally, totally. They've been there, done that. They know how to do it, they can do it again. They can show you the way they don't have to talk about And this doesn't mean that they're perfect, right? They have their own faults, but they know how to get you from A to Z. And so really the key here to make sure that your clients, that you're positioning your clients as the hero is really just to articulate their problem. And there's some really cool things that happen when we articulate our customer's problem or our client's problem really clearly. Our brains automatically think, if you can articulate my problem, you are the best one to solve it. And so I usually start out all my websites with three bullets that articulate the problems that my clients are struggling with. And it's that simple, that section right there, which I call the problem section, you're articulating the problem and you're stating the problem really clearly. It creates this connection. They feel seen your potential customers or your leads feel seen. They feel heard. They're like, oh, here she is the best one to solve this. They can articulate it. And so it does so much heavy lifting for you just in that one section. It also establishes you as the guide. And that's just done through a lot of empathy. I get it. This is a really hard struggle that you're dealing with. It's hard. Whatever the problem that you solve is it's hard. And that empathy just, it's Yeah, I mean, empathy is one of the best ways to build connection with people. And I think I remember actually because read Donald Miller's book, building a StoryBrand, and I remember him giving examples of businesses. It was quite entertaining actually, that positioned themselves as the hero and didn't position any, didn't position. I don't even think they talked about the guide, didn't it? And I think he gave an example of Diddy doing it with a brand that he had. And I think people don't realize that they are positioning themselves as the hero, but often it's like, this is who I am, this is what I do. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. And it's like, whoa, whoa. You are losing track of what's important here. People are buying from you because of something that's going to be in it for them. So can you give us an example maybe of a specific example about what this might look like? Okay, if we've got a certain problem, I don't know. Say for example, okay, I've got a program about selling on stories and how to sell on Instagram stories. So how would I go about then using this framework and applying it to my business? Or if you want to give another example of something that you've done. Yeah. Well, when you get on a phone with a lead, what are their headaches? What are they struggling with, what's hard for them? So a lot of the time when it comes to telling stories, they have absolutely no idea what to say in order to convert people. So it's actually the language and the messaging. A lot of the time they feel really repetitive. They feel like they're just sort of saying the same thing every single day and they don't know how to actually diversify the content that they're talking about. So I would say those are two main ones. And also sales confidence. So they feel like especially when it comes to pitching the offer at the end, they feel like they lose track a little bit and they just sort of wig out and they dunno how to actually end the pitch and how to do the selling part at the end. So I feel like those are the three main kind of issues. Okay, cool. So I would start with, I'm not great at But the essence will come through. So I would start out with a headline that says something like Instagram stories are a necessary evil to grow your business. You've got to be there, but you really don't want to be. That's really the reality. They feel obligated to be there, but they really don't want to be. And then I would follow that with a few different bullets that might just be as simple as get in front of your phone or you turn the camera on and you don't know what to say. You fumble around not knowing what to say. And then I would say something like, okay, you've done it a handful of times, but you keep saying the same thing over and over again and you don't want to sound repetitive. And then I would have the third bullet be something. Ultimately the point of doing this is to close the sale and you lack the confidence. You need to do that with ease. So mean nobody knows your clients better than you. This is why it's very much a collaborative process. But we'd start by kind of brainstorming these ideas and then we'd hone and hone and hone and articulate it in a way that it's just spot on and your leads would come and they'd be like, oh yes, she gets my struggle. She understands me. Yeah, I love that. Okay, cool. And then when do I come into the story? So we've done the heroes come in, they've got this problem, and then that would be the guide is coming in next. So that would be like, Hey, I You already, in a way, you're already in the narrative just by not talking about yourself, you've already positioned yourself as the guide by communicating the problems. And so what we want to do right after that is show them what success looks like. And the way that a lot of people get this wrong is that they talk about the features of what they offer rather than what's the success that your hero is going to experience if they work with you. So you want to kind of show them what's possible and you want to point to here's what the peak of your mountain looks like after the fact. So what's like are the most extraordinary results that your clients experience? I think the number one is that they're actually converting people from their stories. So they're able to actually get warm leads from their stories. They're actually selling, they're communicating the value of their offer. Finally, people actually think, oh God, I need this. And they're buying from them. But the ultimate goal is that they can make some sales. Got it. Okay. So then I would really think about what their life is after they are converting those leads. Let's just say they're 10 X in their conversions, or you can ballpark what's the most common. Huge. Which is funny you say that. That was the tagline I used Stories. Yeah, great. Okay, there you go. So 10 x your conversions, that's a huge point of success. And then I would follow up with maybe two more that what's their life going to be like after their 10 x and their conversions? Are they going to be booked out for three months? Are they going to be able to actually work less? Are they going to have more free time to go out with their friends? Are they going to be able to take a vacation without working? What their life really going to be like once they solve this problem? And that's really why we make these decisions is based on those emotional pain points. So I would just get in touch of with what they really truly want. I mean, I think my best guess would be they really want freedom. Most entrepreneurs, they want more money and they want freedom, whether it's freedom to spend what they want or freedom of time. And then maybe one other thing that really means a lot to them, you really want to paint that picture of success and you want to show them that that's possible because you know can get them there. You've been there, done that, and then kind of woven in here. And I'd have to show you some kind of visual examples, but you're always welcome to look at my website and my website has a lot of examples of clients that I've worked with and woven in there is really your solution. So you yourself aren't really come into the page visually until about halfway through your homepage, but your solution is really like, how do you uniquely solve this problem? And it can be as simple as I remove the fear or remove the overwhelm around Instagram stories. That's your solution. You don't really have to tell them exactly how you do it, but you And people tend to overthink this one. But I worked with a parenting coach last week and her solution was really, it was like the problem was moms of toddlers feel like there's not enough hours in the day to get it all done. So that's the problem. And then her solution was I helped them change their relationship with time and that's it. That's her solution. I helped change their relationship with time. I mean, that's a huge deal, don't get me wrong. But notice we're not getting into all the detail about it. It's like this is what I do. I help them change their relationship with time so they can parent with more joy, more presence, and more ease. And so that's kind of a good example of the shortest version of any story that you would ever tell. It's like the problem, the solution, and then the success. Love that. I think I see that a lot as well with people. They go way too into the method and way too into the features, and it just doesn't convert. It usually overwhelms actually. It usually overwhelms the You become the hero right there because you're talking about yourself and you're like, this is what I can do. And it kind of changes the energy when you're the guide, you're the confident, you're confident, you're not eager to please, you're just like, yeah, we can do this. Do you want to do it? Whereas when you're shouting out all the features that you offer, it's kind of this desperate energy that comes through that people might not even be aware of, but they can feel it. And that's why it doesn't convert. Interesting. And that reminds me, I feel like there's so many correlations between business and dating. If you're on a date with someone and they're like, me, buy from me. Well not buy from me, but I'm so great dating me. You're like, oh my god, this person is so boring a and nauseating versus if someone shows interest in you and makes you feel seen and is engaged with you, that's when you're more interested. So I think it can be applied to So true. That is such a good point. It's really, really I felt there's so many correlations between business and relationships. I could talk about it all day to be honest. So is there a way that you can use this not just on your website, but can you kind of take this methodology and apply it to maybe social media posts or email marketing? How Oh my gosh. It is really the key. This is something that can be repurposed on literally everything that you create, every piece of writing that you create. I would highly, highly recommend that you use the framework. It can be done. I do it most often for people's websites. But once we craft that, this is kind of a two part answer. So once we craft your tagline, which is really kind of that one short phrase that summarizes the story of your business or your brand story, which is what I just shared around the mom who's the mother coach, who helps people change their relationship with time. So once you craft that, you can put that, you can literally copy and paste that same thing into your email signature. You put it on your website, you put it on your social media profiles, on your business cards and a million other things like anywhere your business is client facing. cohesive, it's really clear the problem that you're solving and the benefits that you're clients will experience. So that's just effortless. Do that once and you're done. And I have a freebie that will walk you through how to do that in literally five minutes. So it's kind of insane. But the formula itself, the formula around articulate the problem, problem, the hero has a problem. That hero meets a guide with a solution and the hero finds success. So that formula, you can use it literally on everything. So every social media post that you do, every tweet, I mean everything just, if you do nothing more, just start with the problem and take it from there. But when you start with the problem, that's what makes copy compelling. People get pulled in and they have to know, is this What's going to happen next? I mean, this is why we sit in a movie theater for 90 minutes and we don't leave because we have to know this problem is going to get solved. That is why we start with the problem. Our brains cannot resist them. Examples of where you can use this framework, all your Instagram posts, and you can do it in a way that you don't have to repeat yourself. Your clients really have probably, I bet you could brainstorm 20 different problems at least that they have if you really dig deep. And that's right there, that's 20 different posts that you can start with the problem, problem, and then briefly talk about your solution and then remind them of And I love that it's a really simple formula. It's not very complicated. And when you hear it, you're like, oh yeah, that's so obvious. But it's not necessarily natural to a lot of people. I think a lot of people feel like they've got to just constantly sell themselves, and it's like, no, no, no. Make your audience feel seen. You get their problems, you understand them. How important is it to find your unique brand voice in this story as well? Does that play a big part in the storytelling? How do you even find your brand voice? I'd love to talk about that a little bit. Tell me a little bit about, I am curious your definition Mine would be, well, my business is obviously like myself, so I feel like my brand voice is very tied to me personally. So I like to make sure that, and of course it's still a curated version of myself, maybe how I am online and my business isn't necessarily what I'm like on a date that wouldn't be very fun or what I'm like with my friends all the time. But there's definitely elements of me throughout. So my brand voice is very, I'm quite direct in my content, usually quite polarizing in my content, but also I like to make sure that it's done in a fun, humorous way. I don't want people to be like, oh God, I'm constantly triggered by what Katie's saying, but I don't like to beat around the bush too much. So that I would say is definitely part of my Well, the people that I work with, they just like you. They are their brand. So I typically work with solopreneurs or small business owners. So really they are the voice. And the beautiful thing about the process that I walk them through is I know how to ask the right questions to extract the right answers. And just by the very nature of them answering those questions, their voice is coming through. And so that's kind of phase one. And phase two is this collaborative call that we do or a collaborative session where we just really make sure I'm always listening for certain words or a certain tone or just kind of a way of being. A lot of the processes I imagine fairly intuitive, but it comes through because it is your voice. It's like you can't not have your voice, it just comes through. If I was working with a larger company in Nike or something like that, then we would really want to define those qualities of the brand prior to answering these questions and then just double checking, just like we do on a one-to-one is does this feel Does this feel aligned? Does this feel like something you would say, does this feel like something this kind of avatar of your brand would say? So it's an iterative process and a continual honing refining. But when you're done, just like if you've ever painted before when a painting's done because you just know and when your copy is done because it feels when it's done right, because it feels really good. It feels like sitting down with somebody and having coffee with them, rather than having them take out their laser pointer and be giving you a presentation. We want it to feel really And I think if people are struggling to write their copy, something happens. Sometimes. I know that a lot of people I'll talk to about their business and they'll be really passionate and they're all fired up. And I'm like, where is that in your content? I'm not seeing any of that. It's almost like as soon as they put pen to paper, it just all goes out the window. Do you have any advice for people to try and if they can't, for example, maybe hire a copywriter, how to try and translate that a little bit better so they don't lose their voice in the process of them trying to write their copy for Yeah. Gosh, that's such a great question. I mean, the first way I would answer that question is if you're wanting to DIY, and if you're in a phase of DIYing for your own business, then DIY, your website build because there are incredible builders out there like Squarespace and a million other ones that really allow you to build your website for free essentially and make it look pretty good. And then I would say put your money if you have a few thousand dollars, put your money into working with an expert that can tell your story. And I say that because writing for your own business is so hard to do alone. It's like we're really, as business owners, we're stuck inside of this bottle and we're trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. And so it's really important that you get support and help. And that doesn't have to be somebody that you pay. It can be a friend or ideally someone not in your industry, but somebody who's maybe a potential would be a potential client for you to have them look at what you're writing. So I think if you really need to DIY it, and you don't want to spend $1, well, I would spend $15 and buy building a StoryBrand, and I would go through that process. That book by Donald Miller is really kind of like the Bible for business owner And then if you also don't want to spend any money, but you need a little bit more support, then I would go to Clarity with Chris, which is where my freebie is. And I talk through with visuals, the fundamentals of story, and sometimes those visuals make it easier to really embed this framework into your bones. And I walk you through in a five minute video how to tell your story. And then it comes with a companion worksheet where I just ask you a handful of those questions that allow me to extract the most important information from you, and it's completely free and hold your hand through the whole thing. And then you also get a free call with me at the end to give you And after reading the book, I was like, okay, this is gold. It's really, really good, really tangible, really easy to implement. So I'll leave all the details for your freebie as well in the show notes below. What if someone is like, I don't need a freebie, I just want to work with Chris. How do I do that? Where do they go? How do they work with you? Yeah, if you're totally done trying to do it by yourself and you want it done in two and a half hours, but with an expert, then go to grow. Do red door designs.com. That's grow.red door designs.com. And right there, you can work with me and we'll get your copy dialed in 2.5 hours flat. I mean, what are you guys still doing? Listening. That's the most, I mean, 2.5 hours. That is the dream. Chris, thank you so much for joining me. I really, really found this whole conversation fascinating, and I think people are going to take a lot away from this as well and be able to really elevate their copy and hopefully increase their conversions as a result. Thank you for having me. It was the joy. Thanks, Katie. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/simpler-business ### Title: How Effective Storytelling Can Get You More Clients, with Marissa Roberts and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4938519 ### Content: ## How Effective Storytelling Can Get You More Clients ## The Simpler Business Podcast How Effective Storytelling Can Get You More Clients, with Marissa Roberts and Kris Jones **Feeling overwhelmed, like there's never enough time to focus on what truly matters in your business?** Join me in an enlightening conversation with Marissa Roberts on the Simpler Business Podcast.  We share strategies that can put gas on the fire of growth in your business. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Unlock the hidden secrets to get off the hamster wheel of creating endless marketing. ? Elevate your sales approach with authentic and effective storytelling. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Welcome to the Simpler Business Podcast, where we talk about ways to do what you love and serve your people in a way that brings you income and freedom. I'm your host, Marissa Roberts. Join me as I chat with my favorite entrepreneurs about how they simplify their biz so that you can You started your business because you love what you do, but no one told you you'd need to be a marketer as well as a business owner to actually make money. And that part kind of sucks. We all know that if we want our business to be a business and not a hobby, we need to make sales. We need to make an income. But if you are not naturally good at sales, this can be a real sticking point. It's hard to spend time on something when you don't enjoy it, and it's really easy to procrastinate on it when you'd rather be doing the stuff that you actually love. As a result, many websites have a very basic announcement style copy that fills the page, but doesn't make any sales. Converting website visitors into paying customers is a must for every Unfortunately, simply whacking a buy now button up on your homepage isn't going to do the trick. You need good copy on your website to build a connection with your reader and to show them why buying from you is a great idea. You need to take them down a pathway that shows them what they're missing out on if they don't buy from you, and you need to do it in a way that makes them feel good about making that purchase. Luckily, you don't need to spend years honing your copywriting skills in order to write those high converting words. You just need Kris Jones. I'm so excited to have Kris on the show today. She's the founder of Red Door Designs and a story brand guide. Kris has over 20 years experience with clients like Nike under her belt, and she's extremely passionate about helping business owners and entrepreneurs create website copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. Kris believes creating copy that sells should be quick and easy, and that your website can be strategically set up to convert new leads with ease. Her approach is based in authenticity, trust, connection, and storytelling methods that convert without being pushy, which makes me so happy because I really believe that sales should be a great experience for both you and your customer. So welcome, Kris. I'm so happy that you're here today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. Oh my gosh, I learned so much from my very first visit to your website. And it's funny because you have a really powerful training. It's short, it's simple, it gets right to the point, and it gave me so many light bulb moments. And then it's funny because I was watching your training and then I was on your website going, you're right. There's a little bit of that there and a bit of that there. And oh, it does do this to me as the consumer. It was really quite a magical experience. So I can tell that exactly what you're talking about when it comes to using stories to sell, because I've seen it firsthand. It's very, very exciting once you kind of catch onto it, isn't it? It's really, really exciting. I mean, the beautiful thing is we as humans are really wired for story. We've been telling stories since the beginning of time, so it's really no mystery that there's somewhat of a framework or a formula around how to tell a good story. But what's really cool is how to take that framework and apply it to your marketing storytelling for your own business because there's a story there and there's a way to tell that story that will work for you and really be effective for your business and actually be fun and easy to share. So yes, it's ridiculously exciting. And as we chatted about a little bit before, once you understand the formula, it does change the way you watch movies, read books, visit websites, because you start to really understand those core fundamentals of storytelling. Yeah, that's so true. I think our listeners will know exactly why storytelling's important for movies and books and entertainment. But when it comes to branding, I know a lot of people kind of stop there and go, oh, I don't really have a story for my brand or my product. A story doesn't really relate to it, but actually that's not the case. So why do you think having a story is so important when it comes to a brand and marketing? Well, I'll start by sharing that. We're all very busy, right? In this day and age we've got text messages coming through. We've got 18 things on our to-do list. We're running our own businesses, and it's really hard to capture our attention. But when you go to a movie, you sit down and suddenly everything in your life disappears and you fully engage with that movie for a full hour and a half. Nothing has the power to do that, but story. So the way that translates to marketing is that it captures people's attention. It gets them engaged with you. It gets them invested in the characters of the story. And here's the beautiful gift for the business owner around story, and this is going to surprise a lot of people. Your brand story isn't about you, so you're off the hook. You're totally off the hook. You don't have to do a bunch We're talking about a way of telling a story that is inviting your customers or your clients into a story with you where they're the hero of the story and you are the guide in the story. So it's really a powerful way to create connection, authenticity, trust, and it's a beautiful way if they're a right fit for you to show them what's possible for their life if they work with you, and also if that's something they want, then to motivate them to click on that schedule a call button or whatever your main call to action is. Yeah, that's such a good point. That was such a big light bulb then when you said, well, no, the story doesn't have to be about your brand. The story is about your potential customer. That's so true. And it really takes the pressure off because you don't have to worry about, oh, I'm being show offy, or I'm just kind of boosting myself up and making myself look like a guru. It's not about that. It's about the person that you are helping And the reason for that is because as humans, the reason we've survived over thousands and thousands of years is because we're constantly scanning our environments to figure out how we're going to survive and thrive. And so whether we're looking at websites or we're out in the forest where we're always trying to figure out, okay, is this going to help me survive? Is this going to help me thrive? How am I going to benefit from whatever I'm doing here? And the same thing is happening when someone's coming to your website. They're literally asking themselves, how am I going to be better for this? How is this going to benefit me? And so we've really just got to answer that question and make that really clear, and that's why we make it about them, because that's what they care about. And it's not like the human race is super self-centered, but it's really just how we're wired to thrive. And so we might as well just play on that brain chemistry. Yeah, that's such a good point. So why do you think then that entrepreneurs struggle to write copy? I think a lot of us are clear about who our potential clients are or our most ideal clients, and we know how our product or service will help people. But turning that into words on a page, a lot of us have trouble with that. I love copywriting and I still struggle after, what, 11 years in the business? Why do you think we have so much trouble Well, number one, I just want to echo your sentiment that it's hard for everybody. It is truly, for most people, it feels impossible. Even if you're a good writer, even if you have multiple college degrees, it doesn't matter. And that's, I think what I want to say, nearly a hundred percent of the people that I work with come to me, and that's one of the first things out of their mouths. I should be able to do this. I got straight A's in school. Why is this so hard? I've been trying to do this for two years now, and finally they come to me sometimes feeling defeated. And it's like, no, no, no. This is hard for everybody because there's a few reasons. But the main one is that as business owners, especially if you're self-employed, you are the business. So it's a lot like being inside of a bottle and trying to read the You don't have that perspective that you need to really clearly communicate yourself, your own business, and to share your story. So that's why it's really important to collaborate with an expert on your copywriting because that expert can come in. You've got all the nuggets of information in you, you've got it all there. It's just you need someone to guide you and pull out the good stuff and help you from going down rabbit holes that aren't fruitful for you. So it's hard for everybody. And the other challenge around that is that for most of us, if we've been in our industry for any amount of time, we are at the expert level or we know a lot about what we're doing. We're good at what we do. And what happens then is you forget what it's like to not know what, so often website copy can get overly complicated, or you talk over somebody's head unintentionally because you've what I call the curse of knowledge. You have the curse of knowledge, which just simply means you've forgotten what it's like to not know what, and one of the most important things in storytelling and an effective website is really meeting your clients where they are. And when you have the curse of knowledge, you can't do that. You forget the start of the struggle or the start of the Yeah, you're right. And that's so true when you talk about, it's like being in a bottle and trying to read the label from the inside. You're so close to it. But yeah, that's a really good analogy. It's a really good way to think about it. Okay, well, I feel much better now because A, I know it's not just me that sometimes struggles with copy and B, now I'm like, oh, I get it. Because it's one thing to say I've got 10 years experience in simplifying. It's another thing to say, oh, I remember what it was like 10 years ago when I was first starting to do it myself and trying to figure out how to do it, because Marissa back then is very different to Marissa now, and I bet everybody's having the Yeah. So when you work with clients, you use a particular framework. You can tell us more about the framework that you use and how it Yeah, yeah. I'm happy to. So I am a certified StoryBrand guide, and what that means is that I have been mentored by Donald Miller, who is a brilliant storyteller, and he wrote a book called Building a StoryBrand. Every business owner should get this book. It is just full of so much good information. So I got certified under his framework, which is simply called the StoryBrand Framework. And if you want to boil it down, it comes down to really two main characters in every story. So every story begins with a hero who has a problem. And if you think of any movie you've ever seen or any book, there's a hero who has a problem. And then about 20 minutes into the movie, that hero meets a guide, who knows how to solve that problem for them. But nobody can solve the problem for them. The guide has got to solve it, him or herself. But the guide has a plan to help that hero reach the success that they're hoping to find or that goal that they're hoping to achieve. And so the guide gives the hero a plan and shows them what's possible for them by showing them what success can look like. And it's really that simple. A hero who has a problem meets an experienced guide who gives them a plan, shows them how to overcome That's really cool. My brain is going to movies now. I'm like, oh, that happened in Spider-Man, that happened in Star Wars. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's literally a hundred percent of the movies, or some of the old school movies that I like to bring up are like Karate Kid and Mr. mgi or Kane and the guy, what's his name from Cheers. Right? He Mitch. And he is a brilliant guide because as a guide, you don't have to be perfect. You're human, you're still flawed. And Hamit was very flawed, but he had been there, done that. He knew how to win the Hunger Games, and so he gave her a plan, and then she was able to reach her So in terms of your website then, are we writing your consumer, your potential client is the hero and you are the guide or you are So the most important thing that anybody can take out of today's conversation would be that as business owners, we are the guide. We are Mr. Biagi, we are Yoda, we are Hamit, and our clients are the hero. And so there is only room for one hero in every story. And one of the biggest mistakes that I witness online, and I want to say like 99% of the websites out there are doing this, companies and business owners are making themselves the hero of their own story. And they're doing this through a lot of I, me and we language. But again, back to that fundamentals of story, there is only room for one hero in every story. And so what happens is when a business owner makes themselves the hero of the story, they've literally kicked their client out of a story. They've kicked them out instead of inviting them into a narrative with them. So we really want to show up as the guide, and I'm happy to walk through a few Yeah. So the first thing to do, I mean, remember we're talking about really keeping the copy on your website focused around your hero. So what we want to do is always start the communication around the problem that your hero or your client is facing. So I like to start my website out with three to five bullets of problems that they're struggling with. So when you talk to your clients, ask yourself, what are they telling me that they're struggling with? In their words, what are the themes that keep coming up again and again and again? So depends on what you do, but you'll be able to easily jot down three or five and they just need to be really spot on. It's probably the most important thing you can do because when you really articulate your client's problems, so many things happen. You open up a story loop and our brains can't help but engage, and we can't help but want to read on to make sure that this problem can be resolved. And also, this is really powerful and it's kind of subconscious. They automatically think, if you can articulate my problem that well, you must be the best one to solve it. And so this idea of trust immediately occurs. And then also this feeling of connection, because when somebody understands the nuances of the things that you're struggling with, you do feel understood, you feel seen, you feel heard. So that's a really powerful way to begin the narrative of your storytelling on your website. So it's like as soon as people get there, they go, oh, this person gets where I'm coming from, and they've had it happened before as well, and they've come through the other end of it. I love that. So you've Absolutely. It's not a two for, it's like a five for it does five different things at one different time. And then the cool thing about after that section, so we don't want to spend too much time in Debbie Downer phase. This is not about being Debbie Downer. It's about empathy and really helping your customer feel seen and heard. But then we follow that section by really painting a positive picture of what's possible for them. And notice we're not talking about the features of your service or anything about you. We're just showing them what are three big things that they're hoping to accomplish that their life might look like if they engage with you. So remember, they're scanning your website, how am I going to benefit from this? So we want to make sure that's pretty early up on the page. And three benefits might be make more money, lose weight, finally break free of physical pain or climb that mountain you've always wished to climb. Take time off. I mean, for your clients that they're trying to simplify their business, it's probably a lot about time and giving them a lot more free time and letting them have the freedom to choose what they do with all their white space. So those are two really, really simple ways that you don't really realize this, but you are being the guide by just spoon feeding this information to the hero in a way Yeah, I love that. That makes it just seem so simple, which of course speaks to me completely with people with getting the copy done. Then I know a lot of people are like, yeah, sure, I'll give it a try myself. But sometimes people are like, yeah, this is great. I know the basics, but it's still going to take me hours. When do you think it's important to bring in a professional copywriter like you or to DIY it yourself? Do you think there's a particular time that you know that it's better to bring someone into help you Yeah, I would hesitate to say that there's a specific right time. Everybody has their own path, and if you're new in business, I think there's such a benefit to just doing the work yourself for a year or so and understand what you do. But if you've been at this a few years and you're feeling really comfortable with your service and you're ready to just have a website that works for you, in my opinion, I think if you're going to put money anywhere, put it in your copy because number one, that's the hardest part. But number two, that's the thing that's going to convert people most effectively. And then I would say the places to save money, and this is coming from someone who's been in the industry a long time, and I started out as a designer, so I believe design is very important, but what's really cool about this day and age is that it's become so easy to DIY, your own website design with Squarespace and Wix. And the beautiful thing about Squarespace is it's kind of constrained, so it stays pretty no matter how much you mess it up, basically, And so I think a lot of people end up spending five or $10,000 on a website design that really, if they had put that money toward the copywriting or less money even toward the copywriting, saved a couple thousand dollars and then designed their own website with that clear copywriting plan. I mean, that to me would feel like the best kind of combination of people that want to do things on a budget, but make the biggest impact with the things that That makes a lot of sense to me too, because then you're investing in something that's actually designed to make you money, so you're making that investment back. It's not just going into a black hole. It's no, hang on a minute, this investment's going to set up my website so that it's easy for people to want to purchase from me later so I don't have to worry about where am I going to find that money later? It's just going to come back Right? And the other thing that happens with my clients all the time is that we map out a very clean copy plan for your website, and then they'll implement it on their Squarespace or WIC site. And number one, it typically pays for itself within about a week. But the other really, really cool thing is that then you end up having this copywriting go-to Bible that you can for your brand. So anytime you're looking for ideas for copy for social media or for a podcast interview or your LinkedIn profile bio, you go back to your website because all that groundwork has been done. Your story has been crafted so carefully that you never have to reinvent the wheel. You truly, the beauty talk about the gift of story is really the simplicity of once you've got it right, you don't have to reinvent the wheel with it. You can the again and Use it everywhere, and it's just going to help cement your positioning and cement your experience and show people a consistent message everywhere that actually helps them. Yeah, that's such a good point. Yeah. People need to actually read things about eight times before they're able to commit it to memory. So it's just a big argument, cohesiveness, consistency, drumming that same drum over and over and over again until people just have it in their head like, oh, that woman, this is what she's about, and it just makes it easier for us so we don't have to keep Yeah, it's like you get known for the thing that you do. Yeah. Oh, I love it. Kris, you have just made this so fun and not a lot of people think copywriting is fun. I love words, but a lot of people are like, no, I'll do anything but copywriting, and you've just made it a fun, magical storytelling experience. So I just love that, and I think our listeners are going to love that too. Thank you so much for sharing all of that with us Oh, yeah. I love talking about story. I'm so passionate You make it so easy. I've loved listening to you talk about it. It's like a big hurdle. It's suddenly easy to just overcome like that. So thank you. I know a lot of our listeners are probably going to want to find out more. So what's the best way for them to find you? Is your website the Social? Yeah, my website is a great way to find me. It's red door designs.com, that's red with two Ds, red door designs with an s@theend.com, and you can find out all about me there. I have an offer around creating your website copy with you, so it's really in your voice and you don't send it out to a copywriter to work in a silo. It really needs to be in your voice, so we do it together that gives you that perspective and make sure it's done right. So I've got that at grow red door designs.com. And then I have a free workshop offer at Clarity with Kris, with a K Clarity with Kris with a Oh, good. All right. I'll make sure I put links in the show notes too so people can find that really easily and go on over and have a look more at what you do. Well, everybody, I hope that you've enjoyed this episode as much as I have, and I really hope that that's got the wheels turning in your brain and you're thinking, okay, I can tackle copywriting now. I know a pathway to follow myself to get that done. We would love to hear your insights on writing your copy as well. So come on over to Instagram. You can find me at Marissa Roberts official, and we'll see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Simpler Business Podcast. If you did, please subscribe, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. There's a link in the show notes to make it nice and easy for you, just the way we like it. If you're ready to simplify and scale your business, you can get started with my free audio class@marissaroberts.com. See you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/so-worth-it ### Title: Powerful Storytelling That Increases Revenue, with Jackie Ellis and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4938527 ### Content: ## How to Write Sales Copy That Explodes Revenue ## So Worth It Podcast, with Jackie Ellis and Kris Jones Powerful Storytelling That Increases Revenue, with Jackie Ellis and Kris Jones **Struggling with your story -- or just avoiding it altogether?**  I recently had a chat with Jackie Ellis on her podcast, where we discussed the challenges of writing for your own business. In this conversation, we discuss how to completely change your approach to storytelling in your business.  **Here's what you'll find out and why it matters to you:** ? The one crucial element you've been missing that will keep them wanting more. ? Surprising reasons why writing for your business can be frustrating. ? The secret recipe for creating copy that truly resonates with your audience. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Hey there, and thanks for tuning into So Worth It Today. Today I am interviewing Kris Jones. And Kris Jones is a StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Designs. So she helps self-employed women craft website copy that sells so that they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. I love this conversation with Kris because we talk a lot about storytelling, and we have this in common. We both love StoryBrand by, or building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller. She talks about the book a little bit in this episode, but it was really one of the early books that I read, I want to say early-ish books that I read about creating compelling storytelling copy. And so I love that she brings that up here. So she's going to share with us in this episode kind of what makes a compelling story and how that transfers into your business. We get used to reading books and expecting story there, watching movies and expecting story there. But it's kind of like, okay, well if story is the compelling thing, if that's what everyone wants to hear, how do we incorporate that into our brand, into our business? So stay tuned because that's what Kris Jones is This is the So Worth It podcast, a place where we're talking about growing a business while raising a family. Not to mention all of the crazy, fun and hard stuff that comes with it. I'm sure I don't have to tell you none of it's easy, but it is so worth it. If that sounds like your sort of thing, stick around. I'm your host, Jackie Ellis. Welcome to the show. Alright, today we have Kris Jones on the show. Kris, I'm so happy to have you. Thank you for So let's jump right in. Why don't you tell us a little bit about you, Sure. Yeah. My name is Kris and I own a boutique firm in Portland, Oregon called Red Door Designs. I created this business over 20 years ago, which is insane to think about, but I've just been an entrepreneur at heart from the age of eight. I just got my own business cards actually at the age of eight and was pedaling goods to my kind neighbors as a kid, and I was just always kind of drawn to the freedom that comes with owning your own business. And so as I got older, I got really into graphic design and telling a story visually, and then eventually kind of became a web designer. And in my experience creating websites for clients, I recognized that there was this gigantic problem that everybody that I worked with had, and it was creating copy for their website. Literally every client I worked with was like, I don't And I was doing the design work piece of it. So I would say, well, you can do it. Just put something on this piece of paper. This is years and years ago. And eventually I realized I can't create websites for people unless I really understand the strategy behind website copywriting and how to create copy that not only tells the story, but also helps really convert new clients and helps my clients grow their business and make more money. And so I had always really, in hindsight, it's always interesting to look back on the journey of how things came to be, and it's a lot clearer now than it was in that messy middle phase that we all go through. But essentially what happened was I was always naturally drawn to storytelling. And again, in hindsight, I was doing side passion projects that were very much around storytelling. I would take on these projects like documentaries just for fun. I'd create a documentary, and ironically the documentaries would be about storytelling in some way, shape, or form. So I would tell a story about storytelling in these kind of side projects, and I think it was just kind of following my heart's desire around what it means to tell a good story and to figure out how to do that. And in 2017, I connected with a guy named Donald Miller who wrote a book that a lot of people know about called Building a StoryBrand. And he is a memoirist who transitioned into a business guy or a business writer I should say. He's much more than that, but he is passionate about business too. And so he wrote eight memoirs about himself, which he claims he is like, I am officially a narcissist if I can write eight memoirs. Wow. So he's like, I got to do different here. Let's write about business instead. But anyway, after really mastering the art of storytelling through memoir writing, he got into business and he started his own business and hit a lot of road bumps through that process. But what he ended up doing was applying what he knew about storytelling to the way that he marketed his own business. He created this framework that he talks about in the book Building a Story brand, which I highly recommend if you're any kind of entrepreneur, even if you're not, even if you just like stories and storytelling. It's a great book to kind of break down the components of storytelling. And so I met him in 2017 and his work was really resonating and aligned with the work that I was already doing. And so I dove deeper and deeper and deeper into that and just watched what was happening with my clients. It was really profound what was happening with their businesses and what their website was doing for them. Once we were telling a story that was really connecting with their ideal clients, and I tried it, I would implement the framework and I got better and better at it as the years went on and I tried it with a million different types of businesses. So coaches, consultants, brick and mortar. I typically work with service-based business owners and entrepreneurs, but literally I tried it with big companies. I work with Nike sometimes, and I worked with Amazon even. So I've had lots of big clients, but my heart is really with the solopreneur, the female solopreneur that is drawn to the freedom that comes with owning your own business. And the reason I love that so much is because that's what I am. So I can totally, I get it, I relate to those people, but I've been in the industry so long that I've had the opportunity to work with some really well-known brands. And again, it just kept working this, when you implement story in your business, whether you're Nike or Amazon or you are the bookkeeper down the street, it works, it resonates, and it resonates because we're human and story is really what has connected us as humans from the beginning of time. We've all gathered around the fire from thousands of years ago and told stories, shared stories, learned through stories. And so our brains are really wired for it, and that's why it's so effective. And really we're just selling to other humans, whether you're a big company or a small company or one of the things that I've learned about storytelling is that they're way more memorable than just facts. So when you tell a story, people remember it. It's actually 22 times more memorable than just telling a fact. So if I told you it's really important to provide value for your clients, you'd be like, okay, well that's good fact But if I told you a story about how I did something that added value and what I did and how that person reacted, and then what we all learned through that story, it will be committed to memory. So when you think about maybe the last event you went to or workshop you attended, the person who was presenting might've spoken for, I don't know, 40 minutes. And if I asked you to tell me about that, what was your takeaway? You would remember a two or three minute story that they shared, shared, and you'd probably forget the rest. So it really behooves us to tell stories in our marketing if we want people to remember us, if that's the goal, which it's, especially when you're a business owner, it's always good to be remembered, and it's one way to really stand out in a crowded market. So the thing about storytelling too that's really interesting is that our brains find stories just completely irresistible. When someone begins with, let me tell you a story, and then everybody shuts up, everybody leans in and they're like, okay, what is it? We cannot resist stories. And another example that's kind of interesting to think about is just the power of story. So in this day and age, when you think about our never ending to-do lists. If you're a mom or a business owner or a working We have a million things on our to do list. We have text messages coming at us, we've got our inboxes full of emails, we've got people needing our help, we've got social commitments to get to, and we're just distracted all the time, and it's just amplifying as the years go by. And now instead of just text, we've got Slack and we've got Vox and all these dinging, ding, dinging, ding, ding, right? So it's next to impossible to kind of put a pause on all that that's coming in. But if you go to a movie, you walk in, you sit down, you've got your popcorn, you've got your Coke, and maybe a Butterfinger or something like that. Anyway, the lights dimm and you forget about everything else for 90 minutes. What in this day and age has the power to do that? You don't check your phone, you don't think about your to-do list the story. All movies are really done well as far as storytelling goes because it costs millions of dollars to make them so they know what they're doing, they know how to tell a story, and you sit there and you're engrossed and pulled into that movie for 90 minutes. Nothing on the planet has the power to capture our brain in that way these days. So that's just an example of why storytelling is so powerful. And when you talk about your website or even telling stories in person, that's the power behind it is just capturing people's attention and Yeah. I'm glad that you bring up the movie thing. I was just thinking about that. I actually read that book, gosh, what is it called? Building a StoryBrand. I was thinking it was creating building a StoryBrand about the same time that you did. And I remember him talking about movies as examples, and I can specifically remember I was reading in the car, which I never do. I normally get car sick from reading, but I was reading in the car and I kept reading lines to my husband because he's a big movie watcher, not so much a reader, but he loves movies. And I was giving him the examples. I was like, oh my gosh, I've never thought of this. This is a great example of a story, blah, blah, blah. And he's just like, yeah. I'm like, this is so exciting. But we go to the movie and we expect to be told a story. And what I'm thinking right now as you're talking about web design and websites, we don't, well, you do copywriters and designers probably do, but your average person probably doesn't go to a website and expect to be told a story. So can you tell us a little bit more about what that means and what that looks like? Definitely. Yeah. So we've all grown up hearing stories. Our parents read us books, and they always start with Once Upon a Time, there was this character and that character. And that's why it's so confusing. So even when you read the book, it's like, okay, I get it. I get the components of story, but how does this actually translate to my business? How does it translate tangibly to my website? And let me break down the components of every single story you've ever watched, whether it's a book or a movie, and then I'll walk you through how to apply that to your actual website. So essentially, every hero in every story has a problem, every hero, so every story, sorry, every story begins with a hero that has a problem and they don't know how to overcome that problem a hundred percent. You could look at every book, every movie, So there's a hero who has a problem that they don't know how to overcome that hero. About 20 minutes into a movie, about halfway down your website, Paige, but I'll get into your website here in a few minutes, but a little bit into the movie or the book, that hero meets an experienced guide who can help them overcome their problem. And that hero helps them get to the point where that guide helps the hero experience success and avoid failure. And so when I talk about this, let me give you some examples of movies of hero guide relationships. This is really probably the most, there are two really important things I want your audience to walk away with, and this is one of them. So think about the movie Karate Kid. I don't know if you guys have seen that one, Miyagi. Mr. Miyagi is the guide, and the karate kid is the hero. The hero is actually the weakest character of any story because we don't know if that karate kid is going to win, if he's going to be able to learn karate and master the skill enough to win the competition. But Mr. Miyagi knows how to do that, and he can show the karate kid what he needs to learn in order to do that. He can wax on, he can wax off, he can refinish the fence, but we don't find out until the very end of the movie if that hero succeeds or not. Or when you think about another hero guide relationship is Luke Skywalker and Yoda probably the most famous relationship that everybody knows about. And then we've also got Katniss and Hamit in the Hunger Games. So Katniss, she's an incredible hero, but we don't know if she is going to succeed or fail. And Hamit comes in, he's won the Hunger Games before he knows how to get her to the point of success and help her avoid failure. Now, an important thing to note is that Hamit is not perfect. He is her guide, but guides don't have to be perfect. They're imperfect. Hamit happens to be a raging alcoholic. So you as the guide don't have to be perfect. And what I really want to communicate here is start thinking about if you're business owners, start thinking about yourself as the guide and your clients as the hero. And you are the one, they come to you with a problem they don't know how to overcome, and you are the guide who can help them overcome their problem so they can experience success and avoid failure. And so now you can see how this translates to you as an And the next question is really, okay, well, how does that show up on my website? And it's very, very simple. So a lot of people think, okay, I got to tell a story on my website. I should probably talk about how I came to be a business owner and how my great grandfather traveled across the oceans to get to America or whatever. But the beautiful thing is, and this is the gift I will give to you today, your story is not about you. Yay. We don't have to write about ourselves because we already know everything about ourselves. So your story is about your hero, it's about your customer. And so really the key is honing in on the problem that your customers are facing and really articulating that problem in a way that helps them feel heard and understood. So they show up on your website, and immediately the first thing you want to do is just say, This is what you're struggling with. These are the challenges that you're facing. So remember, the first part of every story is that a hero has a problem they don't know how to overcome. So want to acknowledge that, and this will shift the way that you even watch movies or read books. Start the book and you'll be like, oh, there's the hero. Here's the problem. He can't overcome it or she can't overcome it. Now, this is why we keep reading because our brains can't disengage until we know that problem has been or can be solved. So always start with the problem on your website. An example might be, let's say I'm a coach and I help people get physically fit. And so my clients in that role, my clients might be struggling with lots of different things. Maybe they have aches and pains that they don't know how to fix, or maybe they have a big goal that they want to accomplish, they want to run a marathon, but they can't even And so we want to start the website just resonating with them and helping them be seen and heard and showing them compassion and saying, I get where you are. I get the challenges that you're struggling with. And a funny thing happens in our brain as humans, when we do that immediately, if you can articulate my problem, I think you're the best one that can fix it. I automatically just think the more clearly you can articulate my problem. And we can do this in a really simple conversational language. You want to run a marathon, you've got a big physical goal ahead of you, but you can't even run a mile right now, and that's really daunting. So we want to tap into those emotions that people are feeling around the problem that they're experiencing, A lot of people tell me, okay, well, I don't know if I really want to start with the problem. It feels kind of negative, and I don't want to be like a Debbie Downer. And it's like, well, this is not about negativity. This is about empathy, and it's about helping them feel seen and heard and creating that connection. So through articulating the problem, that's what's going on. And in addition to that, they're like, okay, I can't disengage from this website. I have to read more because I have to find out if this problem can be solved. And that's why we stay in the movie theater for an hour and a half. If the problem were solved, if the problem were solved in five minutes, we'd get up and leave the movie because stick, nothing would stick around, keep us there. So we stay engaged with the website until we know that one of the most important things a guide can do for their clients is really show them what's So they're stuck in this problem, they don't know how to overcome it, that's why they're at your website. That's why they've started to take action to try and find somebody that can solve this problem for them. And so you've identified that on your website. And then the next thing you really want to do is show them what's possible for them. Show them what success will look like. And the mistake that happens a lot that I see on most websites is that number one, the business owner or the entrepreneur paints themselves as the hero instead of the guide. And there's only room for one hero in every story. So when you do that, when you talk too much about yourself, you kick them out of this story, they can't see themselves in your story. And this is really less about telling a story and more about inviting your client into a narrative with you where they can imagine themselves in a story with you, where they're the hero And so as the guide, what's really important to do is show them what success is going to look like. And that's not like your process. Again, we don't want to overwhelm them with more about you. They want to know what are they going to get from this? How am I going to benefit from working with you? And so we want to make sure that we follow up that problem by showing them what's possible. And this can be three simple things that you can show them. So kind of going back to that, if I were a physical trainer or a health coach, I might say, reach your run the marathon you've been dreaming about feel, feel physically fit and capable in your own body, and what else might, another benefit might be? And shed the 15 pounds that you've been carrying around for the last five years. So you kind of get the idea of it. It's like we're human. We're constantly scanning our environment to figure out how am I going to benefit from this? What's in this for me? It's not a selfish thing, it's just the way we're wired and it's the reason that we've come so far in our evolution. And so as the guide, you want to paint that picture of what's possible for them, and then you basically weave in your service as the solution Very cool. I love that. I was thinking as you were talking about the problem about what we face with many of our clients actually, and that is not being truly understanding the problem. We have a lot of, maybe not our clients, but some of our students that take our marketing course will come to us and say, I don't feel like I have a big enough problem. I don't feel like, I guess that's probably the thing that they say the most. I don't feel like I have a big enough problem, or they don't understand what the actual problem is. When you're talking about the website and starting with the problem, I think it's pretty safe to say that's a very important piece to figure out. The most important piece, the single most important piece. When you start with the problem, things will begin to shift. So give me an example of somebody that what they did when they said their problem, what was their work Enough. I knew that you were going to ask me that, and I was trying to think of an example. Okay, well, this is a little bit different. I mean, we're not designing a website for them, but just in terms of facing a problem, we have a student who sells artwork. It doesn't feel like there's an obvious problem there yet. We all know that people buy tons of artwork every day. People can't see your office, but you have artwork on the wall behind you. People spend a lot of money on artwork, so people want it, people buy it, but Okay, I get that. And it's interesting. I just bought a piece of art yesterday, so I can really relate to this. So the problem that I was experiencing that compelled me to buy that artwork was that there's an area in my home that just falls flat. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel aligned with who I am. It doesn't energize me. And so as an artist, you might say, this is a really good example because I think a lot of people do feel this way. What's the problem that I'm solving with art? You're like, well, art is kind of, it's just a joyful thing that people do, but it might be, and a lot of the reason people buy art is probably subconscious, but people that buy art, they want their space to make them feel good. And this is another way to kind of dig So let's talk about why they buy art. They buy art because they want their space to feel good. They want it to be a reflection of them. They want to be surrounded by things that resonate with their heart. They want to feel proud to have people over to their space and to entertain, retain. They want to have an energy and a vibrancy to the things that they look at. And so those are the things that I benefit from when I buy art that really is aligned with me. And then you just want to flip that on its head. Well, what's the opposite of that? And that's how we dig into what the problem is. So your space doesn't feel finished, you don't feel delighted. You want to feel a sense of delight, but your place kind of falls flat. You want to feel inspired when you wake up in the morning, you want your place to be a reflection. You want your home to be a true reflection of who you are. You want to be able to invite people over to your home and to have it be a place that feels peaceful or energized or whatever you're going after. So you think about why they want to work with you Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, if you think about it, every single thing that we buy is because we had some kind of problem. I bought shoe laces because I couldn't tie my shoes. I bought a spatula because I needed to scramble my eggs or whatever. But I think sometimes we just get so caught up in what we do or so close to what we do, that sometimes it's just easy to forget the problem that we're solving for people. Or maybe it doesn't feel like when we say problem, I think maybe that's the problem. It doesn't feel like a Always. Obviously things are more obvious than others, but Well, you bring up a really good point. First off, the initial point that I want to touch on is just that so much of this happens unconsciously. So we're being driven by story all the time, but we're not even aware of it. And so we're really making decisions based on our emotions and the emotions and feelings that we want to overcome. So you bought a spatula because you broke an egg and put it into a pan, and you were frustrated because you only had a spoon, and it was really annoying. So you're feeling frustrated and annoyed, and you just want to make the eggs. So that's why we get motivated, and that's why when you talk about the problem, you really want to speak to the emotion In storytelling, we think that people want to work with us because they want to solve a problem, which is true. They really want to solve the emotion that's underneath that problem. Frustration, defeat, and lack of inspiration. Yeah, I just want to point out for a second, what you just did to the egg story was create a story out of what I said about a spatula. Okay. I just want to point that out in case anybody didn't catch that. I said, I bought a spatula because I wanted to scramble eggs. If I say that, that is who caress, right? But as soon as you said you crack an egg and then had to stir it with a spoon, I'm picturing a metal spoon against my metal pan scraping, and it's just, oh, nails on a chalkboard. That is just a great example of a little tiny mini story that just gets imprinted in your brain. You can see it, you can feel it, you I actually got chills of annoyance while you're talking about a metal spoon on a metal pan. I had a head to toe visceral reaction to the story that I That's the power of story. Yeah, I think that's so great, and it's such a great point is you could go over to your neighbor's house and say, I bought a spatula today. Or you could say, you know what? I got up today and I was making breakfast for my family. I cracked the egg, I poured it into my pan, and I had nothing but a metal spoon to make the eggs with. And I got online and they're like, what happened next? Is this problem going to get solved? And then you go, and you'll never believe I got online and I found this company called Our Place, or I'm trying to remember the name of the brand. I found this pan company called Our Place Pans, and not only do they have the pan, but they have a wooden spoon built into the handle. And so I never have to have this problem I bought the pan, it was 80 bucks, and I am a rockstar. Tomorrow I'm going to make breakfast for my family. We're going to have a movie morning and snuggle. Notice the success that's now happening because you bought this pan I actually did buy a few weeks ago that has a metal metal spatula, or I mean a wooden spatula built into the handle. Cool. And so this is a really funny example that you brought up, but yeah, I mean, it's that simple. It doesn't have to be about, this is a good example of how to do it outside of your website. It's all the same. It's the same ingredients for your website or a Yeah, good stuff. Oh my gosh, it is funny. I think after listening to this, people are going to go watch a movie or watch tv or even commercials. Commercials are getting so good at storytelling, in my opinion, the ones that Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, they better be telling great stories for the money that they're paying for that airtime, right? Right. But now our listeners are going to be seeing stories everywhere, so that's awesome, and hopefully bringing those stories into their business too, if they own a business. But if they maybe need help with that and they wanted to reach out to Well, I'm going to answer that question, but before I go there, I want to let your listeners know that literally everybody struggles with writing for themselves or writing for their own business. It is a universal pain in the butt to write for yourself. And not only is it annoying and frustrating, but it's often in every case I've been exposed to it's next to impossible. So I just want to let your listeners off the hook around being frustrated when they try and write for themselves. And there's a really blatant reason why this happens, and it's because you are too close to your own self. You're too close to your own business. So when you kind of imagine yourself inside of a bottle, let's just say any kind of bottle, like an absolute vodka bottle or some kind Yeah, I know, right? It's Friday, so you're inside the bottle, but you're trying to read the label that can only be read outside the bottle. And that's why it's so hard. We're just so close to not only our own selves, but when we are the business, we are even that much closer to our own business. So it's really, really essential to get some help and have someone who can look at the bottle from the outside and help you get perspective and clarity around how Is a great analogy. I love that. I've never heard that. That's perfect. You even chose the right bottle. Just saying. Love it. And there's also a thing too. If you've been in business long enough, even a few years, this happens to all of us. We get the curse of knowledge, which just means we know so much about our own business that we've forgotten what it's like not to know what we know. And that asking outside help and perspective to help you write your copy is a great way just for someone with fresh eyes to come in and remind you to not speak too much about things that your clients don't know yet that can make them feel stupid if we are using terminology or industry lingo that they don't really know about yet, and it's all unintentional, but it happens so much. So all that to say, let yourself off the hook. If writing has been a struggle for you, if writing has been frustrating for you, if you have been putting, if you've been procrastinating around writing your own copy, that's why. I mean, and there's really legitimate reasons why, and everybody experiences that. So what I want to say is this, hiring someone to write your copy for you, I've found that actually doesn't work. Writing copy for yourself, that actually doesn't work. What I found after 20 years in this industry, and those are the two options people have, right? So it's like, believe me, I've tried it all and after 20 years, I'm like, how do we solve this problem? I can't write for myself. I can hire somebody else, but that just doesn't, I can waste a lot of money hiring somebody else. Number one, a sales page can cost 10 grand. People are throwing 10 grand to copywriters to write their website copy for them. And copywriters, I'm not trying to dison copywriters at all. I consider myself a copywriter as well. But the problem with that is that you're your own business. It's your own. It needs to resonate fully with who you are. So when you hire someone to go right away from you in their own silo, they're unable to get fully aligned with your voice and who you are. So they come back, they give you the copy, and you're like, eh, I kind of like it, but it doesn't quite feel like me. It's just these words don't quite, it doesn't feel like my voice. And if you want your copy on your website to really tell your story, to really resonate with who you are and really be aligned with both you and connect with your clients, the only way to do that is to write your copy collaboratively and bring in somebody who knows strategy, who knows storytelling, and who knows how to pull out the information that's inside of you and who can really, like I said, collaboratively create the copy with you. So we're using your words and every step of the way, making sure that it's aligned. Nobody knows your clients better than you do. Nobody knows your voice better than you do, but it's really helpful to partner with a copywriter that can really work with you to make sure that it's completely dialed in. And so that leads me into the work that I do. I work, what's so hard about copywriting is that we don't want to be stuck doing it ourselves. Even if you took a copywriting course, you're still stuck doing it yourself. So I offer a one-on-one collaborative offer that allows us to work together. So I hold your hand and make sure that it's done right. I ask you the exact questions that I need to pull out those really wonderful nuggets of your story, and then I put the puzzle together and we create the copy every step of the way, making sure it's really aligned with you and your voice, and the whole thing happens. The whole thing takes two and a half hours total, so we're all busy. We all don't have time. This does not have to take even a day or a week. It can take two and a half hours. And if you are interested in doing that, you can find me@grow.red door designs.com. That's grow.red door designs.com, and that's for people who are just done trying to do it themselves. They're ready to hire somebody to collaboratively work with them and create their copy in two and a half hours. Now, if you just want to dip your toe into what creates compelling copy and what makes a good story, then you can go to clarity with Kris.com, and that's Kris with a K, so Clarity with Kris with a K, clarity with Kris.com, and Kris is with a K. And there you can take my five minute workshop and I will break down the fundamentals of story and how to create your own compelling story. That sounds awesome. I did not know that you were going to say two and a Yeah, I mean, I think it's because I've been doing it so long that I have figured out how to streamline the process in a way that it's just very That. I mean, everybody I work with is like, oh my gosh, this is actually really fun. It's fun because you're not stuck alone and you are watching it come together so quickly, and then you get to check that damn thing Perfect. Well, thank you for sharing those links. We'll also put 'em in the show notes so that people can find you. It has been a pleasure talking to you. So lovely. And thank you for sharing all the information about storytelling and business and copy. I loved it. Loved it. Thank you so much, Jackie. It's been so great, and what an honor to get to connect with Thank you. Thanks so much for listening today. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. As always, you can find show notes, links and more over@jackieellis.com. And if we haven't connected yet, make sure you come find me on Instagram at I am Jackie Ellis, and shoot me a dmm. Let me know what episode you listened to and what you thought. I'd love to hear from you. Thanks so much for being brave, being amazing, and just being you. I can't wait until *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/she-sells ### Title: How to Write Sales Copy That Explodes Revenue, with Elyse Archer and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4968385 ### Content: ## How to Write Sales Copy That Explodes Revenue ## She Sells Radio, with Elyse Archer and Kris Jones How to Write Sales Copy That Explodes Revenue, with Elyse Archer and Kris Jones **Have you ever wondered the secret behind resonating with ideal clients?**  The answer is not what you think. There's something deeper happening beneath the surface. I had an eye-opening conversation with Elyse Archer about how to get more clients with ease. And it’s something you can start implementing right away. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Discover a surprising strategy to attract the right people. ? 3 simple steps make your messaging and storytelling 10x more effective. ? How to avoid confusion and overwhelm when crafting your message. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Welcome to She Sells Radio. I'm your host, Elise Archer, and this is the place where female business owners and sales professionals come to learn how to sell in a way that feels authentic to them and to break through six figures in income and beyond. As an entrepreneur, business mentor, wife, and mom of the most amazing little boy, I'm relentless about having it all in my own life, and I believe you can be too. I truly believe that when women believe in themselves and learn how to make more money, the whole world changes for the better. Join me every week for inspiring interviews with other women who have achieved big business success, as well as for solo episodes and deep dive trainings that will help you improve your sales process, earn more money, and step into the most aligned and powerful version of yourself. And now let's Hey there. I hope you're loving today's podcast. We'll be right back to the episode, I promise. But I wanted to pop in quickly with a super special offer for you today. Everything we talk about here on She Sells Radio is a core principle of the transformations that we help clients achieve in our coaching programs. And whether it's the 10 K Club for women wanting to break through 10 k plus months, the 50 K Club for women ready to scale to half a million dollars or more elite private mentoring or corporate speaking and consulting, the greatest passion of the She Sells team is helping you achieve big results in your career and your life. And today I want to invite you to book a free call with our team where you can share more about your goals and your big vision for yourself or your sales team where you're currently stuck, and then we'll give you some strategic coaching and explore how the team and I So to book your free coaching call now head to elise archer.com/free call. Again, that's elise archer.com/free call. I can't wait to chat soon. And now back to the episode. Welcome to G Cells Radio. Right off the bat, I have to tell you that I am so excited for today's interview because my guest today is someone who I simply adore and I know that you will as well, and I'll share her formal background in a second. But before I do, I want to let you know that our guest, Kris Jones, is one of the brightest minds that I've ever met in branding and copywriting, and I've met a lot of people in this space and she's truly one of the best. She's a brilliant entrepreneur, she's an incredible mom. She's also a former client of mine who I just loved working with how you have those clients you work with and you're like, oh, I want to She is that person and she's just a phenomenal human being. And so if you want to uplevel your brand and learn how to create website copy and positioning that really sells you as the best in your industry, then today's interview is going to be for, and I'll share just a bit of her formal bio and background, so the caliber of who our guest is today, and then we'll get into the interview. So Kris Jones is a StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Designs, mentored by StoryBrand founder Donald Miller himself. And with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike under her belt, Kris has been able to achieve incredible transformations for her clients, including increasing revenue by 300%, record breaking lead calls and clients booked. I love this next one. This excites me, scaling from 30 K months to 300 K months. Who doesn't want that? And charging six times more for the same service. Again, who doesn't want this? Woman is brilliant. Kris is extremely passionate about helping self-employed women, get website copy that sells so they can double their revenue and focus on what they do best. Kris, welcome to She Sells Radio. I could not be more thrilled to be here today too. Thank Oh my gosh, yeah, it's so fun. We were chatting before and I was like, I will literally spend the whole time just catching up with you and hearing how you are and talking about mom life if we don't get into the interview. So I was like, let's hit record. I know there's so much for you to share today. So we're going to get into all of your genius in the world of storytelling and copywriting. But before we do, I want to just give everyone a little bit of context for your background. So how did you get into this whole world of branding and copywriting? How did it become the thing, the gift that Yeah. Well, it's funny because when I was in college, this is kind of like pre-internet days, which tells you I've been at this for a while. So websites weren't really even a thing. I didn't even know graphic design was a thing. And so I majored in education and then I enjoyed my education, but after college, I just knew I wasn't passionate about that path. And so I took off to Europe for a year and a half, and I ended up in Turkey of all places on the southern coast of Turkey, and I don't know if anyone's ever done any long-term traveling that Australians know how to travel. So I befriended these two Australian women and both of them were graphic designers and we would just spend, we spent months together traveling and hanging out together and mostly in Turkey. And so through them, I really learned about the profession and what it was all about. And I thought, when I get back home, I'm going to try this. And what happened was the very first class I took within the first three minutes, I just knew, oh my gosh, this is my thing. This is my And it's one of those really those kind of common things that you hear all of a sudden. I looked back in my past and I was doing graphic design and messaging as an 8-year-old kid. I was having my friends over to play and saying, let's design a Tri-fold brochure. Oh my God, I'm not joking. I love There are dozens of things like that where when I look Totally, literally and figuratively. And so I just dove in and I was obsessed and I just cared about nothing else for many, many, many years. And I think that I definitely did a bunch of work. I worked in-house at Design Firms and then became an art director at an ad agency and worked in-house at Nike and Adidas. And I got all this really rich education around how marketing works, how messaging works, how design works. I really started out as a visual storyteller. And then over the years I started to realize that the design isn't enough of a story to tell. It's very important, and I am still so passionate about design, but what I discovered was that if you don't have the right words, your design, you can't lean on just your design. You've got to have the right words to communicate what you do, how you're different to connect with people. And so as my career evolved, I really started to prioritize the messaging piece, and I became kind of this story expert, and again, just dove deep into that learning and practicing that approach and witnessed the results of the approach, which was even more exciting. So although I love beautiful design, I really kind of think the foundation of all Which you and I were chatting about this a bit in the pre-chat. It's like it's the hardest thing to do for most business owners. Why is it so hard for us to come up with effective messaging for ourselves? It is downright impossible. I am not kidding you. A hundred percent of the calls I get on with clients, they say the same thing. Why is this so darn hard? Why can't I do this? I'm college educated, I'm a good writer. It's a thing. Why can't I do this for myself? And the beautiful thing is, it's not because anything's wrong with you, it's really because you're too close to yourself and you're too close to your own business. And it truly is a matter of you are inside the bottle trying to read the label that you can only read from the outside. And so the problem that happens with this is that people keep trying to do it themselves and they don't have the perspective they need. And so years go by and they're not proud of, or their messaging's not working for them, and they finally outsource it to a copywriter. And I mean, copywriters can cost 10, 20, 30, 40. I had a client who paid 60,000 for website For the sales page. And I don't know if that included the design or not, I'm not sure. I don't think it did. But the reality is, when you hire a copywriter, they go and create your copy in a silo. And when they do that, I think everyone has really good intentions, but when you are your own business, it needs to feel like your own voice. So after many years of doing that same thing and then coming back and back and forth and time consuming revisions, and I realized and developed a process that was collaborative. So it was the best of both worlds. The business owner or the solopreneur can get the perspective from an expert, but we do it together. So every word really resonates with your voice, and I'm able to ask the questions to pull out those parts of you that are genius and those nuances of your industry and your voice, and even the technicalities of your industry that somebody nobody would know unless they were really experienced in your industry. So there's so many benefits to the process, and what happens is it takes a lot less time to do it, That's so good. And it's so helpful too because I'll just say as an entrepreneur, as a small business owner, it's like to your point, you don't see it when you're in it and it can feel daunting, it can feel overwhelming, even if you have the prompts yourself to sit down and be like, okay, I'm going to answer this question and that question, you still, I'm guessing you probably see this with clients, they minimize things. They think that things they've done aren't that important or they just don't quite get it with the positioning. But if someone can pull it out of you, it doesn't feel quite so painful. It probably is actually fun is having to sit there and figure it out yourself. Yeah. Oh, okay. It's so good. So Kris, what are some of the things, I want to talk a little bit about storytelling, because you're a story, excuse me, story brand certified guide. I know you're great at doing this, and I think people are getting it more and more today that stories are what sell, that our brains love stories. That's powerful for selling. But I think it can also feel a little bit, again, it can feel overwhelming or daunting. How do I know what stories to tell? What are the keys to telling a good story where I'm not boring people? So what are some of the keys for effective storytelling that I love that question. Okay, so the main thing, number one, I just want to honor the challenge of storytelling because we've grown up with these once upon a time stories. And then now in this modern day and age, we understand story is important. I'm a business owner, I've got to have a good story. What's my story? But that these types of stories are kind of quite different from the once upon a time stories. So there can be confusion around really what is a story anyway. And I think it's helpful to really define the recipe of every story. So there are components that are part of every story you've ever heard, every movie you've ever watched, and every book you've ever read. And they're quite simple when you boil it down. And that's the beauty of the StoryBrand approach is it boils it down to kind of the essentials. And then I have taken that and boiled it down even more. So we'll keep it really, really simple. Awesome. But the reality is every hero has a story. That story begins with a hero that has a problem. So every story begins with a hero who has a problem, and then eventually about 20 minutes into a movie, you meet a guide. The guide knows how to solve the problem because they've been there, done that. And the guide has a plan, a very clear plan that they can give to the hero. And the plan calls that hero to action. So that's why your calls to action are actually really important because they establish you as the guide and your customers as the hero. And so the guide gives the hero a plan and calls them to action. And then the reality is, if the hero follows that plan and does the work and is motivated into action, then they And one of the roles of the guide is to really paint a picture of what success actually does look like, what it feels like. And so when I boil down these three steps, how do they translate to your actual website, right? It's like, okay, I get it. There's a hero with a problem who meets a guide with a plan and shows them what success it looks like and that it's possible. But when you translate this to your website, the one overarching thing, I want to just make sure that everybody gets, and if you take nothing else away from this interview, it's the fact that you are the guide and your client or your customer is the hero. And there's only room for one hero in every story. And so the mistake I witnessed time and time again, I'm talking about probably 99% of the websites online today, the business owner. And this is just, there's nothing wrong with this. It's not an ego thing, it's just purely a knowledge thing. So once you know this, you're going to start identifying it. But most businesses establish themselves as the hero. And we do that through a lot of i, me, we language. It's all about us because we're like, okay, it's my website. Of course I'm going to talk about myself, people want to know about me. But when you establish yourself as the hero, there's only room for one hero in a story. So you've just kicked your client out of a narrative with you. You've kicked them out of the story. That's Yes. Wow. Yeah, yeah. It's really powerful. And so much of it, I mean if not all of it happens subconsciously, so they don't feel connected to you, they leave your website, I don't know, I'm not feeling it. They don't understand why you've just kicked them out of the story and there's no room for them. They don't see themselves on your website. So if we're having an aha moment, if somebody's listening is having an aha moment, it's like, oh my gosh, I made myself the hero. Didn't mean to do that. But I have, where do we start? How do we start to shift our language, shift our positioning to really elevate the customer as the hero? So the beautiful thing is it's not that hard. It's really not that hard. So the number one thing that we can do is really remember I said the first thing about every story is that a hero has a problem. And so start really brainstorming what problems your clients come to you with. What is it? Are they having a hard time writing their own copy? Are they struggling with moving into the six figure realm? Do they have a home that needs cleaning and they're just fed up with just how dirty the place is? What are they struggling with? And the most important thing you can do pretty high up on your website is just articulate those problems. And there's some really cool things that happen when you do that. It sounds super simple, just articulate the problems, but you really want to articulate it in a way that when they read it, they're like, she Oh my gosh, she gets me. And the first thing that happens is they feel a connection. And then the second thing that happens is they automatically think, again, this all happens subconsciously, but they automatically think if you can articulate their problem, then you are the best one to solve it. Got it. So what's cool about this is that people don't buy from the best. And I work with a lot of experts who really are the best in their field, but people don't buy from the best. They buy from the one that they feel the most connected to. And that happens through articulating the problems Interesting. Wow. When you say it, it's like, of course it makes perfect sense. But to your point of when you're just doing it and you can't see the label from inside the jar, we don't think about that necessarily unless we're trained in this. So this is brilliant. And I want to speak a little bit too to if you have, first of all, I would imagine most people listening have a website. We do have quite a few sales professionals as well, and sales leaders who are listening who may not have a website, but I would say everyone should have a personal website today. I'm just going to throw it out there. You should all have a website. So on the homepage of your website, I know one of the things you teach people to do is literally structure it and write the copy in a way that repels the wrong people and attracts the right ones. And I think sometimes people are so afraid to niche down and say something that's going to just turn people off. But I would love if you could speak to number one, why is that important? Why do we want to repel people from our home page? It sounds kind of intuitive, but why? And then two, how do we start to do that? What are some tips and keys for doing that? Well, we really do want to repel the wrong people. I mean, that's a sign that your website is doing a job for you. They're not attracting the people that you really want to work with. So it's an important thing to weave into your website. You don't want to cast such a wide net that you're working with everybody and then you're dreading some of the projects that you're working on because they're just not the people that fill you up. So you do that really. I'm going to repeat just briefly one more time. When you articulate the problem people, the right people that are experiencing that problem are really going to connect with you, and the people that aren't experiencing that problem are not going to connect with you. They're going to be like, oh, yeah, no, I'm not really dealing with that. And so already they're, they're not connecting when you're articulating the problem in a way that's very detailed and nuanced and really the problems relate often to emotions that are felt, so frustration, fed up, tired of, confused, not sure where to begin, but they're more clear than that, they're more detailed than So I usually start out with most websites below the header section, which really just defines what you do. I'm an accountant for entrepreneurs. And then below that, I always start with the hero's problem. And I do that just with usually three lines that are speaking to the three most common problems that I'm hearing from my customers. And then I like to follow that up with positivity. And so what we do after that is really show them what success looks like. So if you work with me, these are the things that you're going to experience. Now, one of the things that people kind of mix up about this section is really they talk about features rather than end results. And so features are actually really putting you back into that hero role. Here are the features that when you work with me, and it's not that there's no place for possible, to paint a picture of what's possible for them once overcome this challenge or struggle that's kind of halting. And so this section follows that problem section. And I like to use visuals or icons. I think photography can be a really great way to connect with the right people and to show them what their life is going to feel like after they've worked with you. So these benefits might be feel confident about your business. It kind of depends on the industry you're in, or if it's a weight loss thing, it's like, okay, feel at home in your body or love, love the way you look in the mirror, things like that. So not what's life during the process, but what's life after they've engaged with you. So that's a really important part. And I think yet another way to repel the wrong people is to show pictures of that happy end result that you create. And you use photography by, do you work with women? Do you work with men? Do you work with older people, younger people? And so photography is a great way to repel the wrong people and attract the right people while you're painting Wow. There's a few key things I took away. I mean, there's a lot I took away from what you just said, but there's a few key things. I think one is leading with the problem and honing in on the problem. And I love how you shared, start with after you say what you do in the header lead with the problem. I think a lot of people probably do it differently, but honing in on that, developing that, and I feel like I'm curious to get your feedback. Most people probably shy away from the problem too much or they're like, I don't want to create too much pain. Or does that show up? People don't go deep Yes, people have resistance to it, a big resistance because we all want to be positive, we want to be high vibe, and we don't want to be Debbie Downer, but the reality is there's a lot at stake for these people and naming the problem, clearly, articulating the problem is really about empathy. It's really, it's not about being down. It's like, I am going to meet you right where you are. This is where you're right now, this is what you're struggling with, and I get it. You are not alone and you are not stuck here. And so that's, it's not all doom and gloom, but it's a very important part of every story. And one great example of this is you think of going to a movie, the last movie you went to, right? Our world today is so busy, we're so inundated with information. We've got our phones dinging, we've got emails coming in, we've got kids and businesses and there's to-do lists that are a mile long, but we go into a movie, movies, a k, a stories. So you go into a movie, everything goes away, and you are fully immersed and fully engaged in this story for an hour and a half or two hours. What else in our life has that kind of power? And so when you do this right, it's really the same as a movie. Every movie you've watched starts with a hero who has a problem that opens up that story loop and it pulls us in and our brains find it 100% irresistible to disengage. We cannot disengage until we know that that problem has been resolved. And if the problem's resolved 25 minutes into the movie, guess what? People get up and leave. So the problem does not get resolved for that hero until the last 10 minutes of the movie, and It's so helpful to pull in examples of that because when you hear that it's, again, it's kind of an of course moment. So if we can just model off of movies model off of how things are structured in our sales copy, I mean, it's fun, it's engaging, it's easier. And to me, I love coming back to making your customer the hero that feels so good. And then something else you said that to me, I'd never heard it said that way, but I thought it was so interesting was I've heard, and I teach too, like sell the destination, not the journey, right? But when you said, when we speak to features, we make ourselves the hero again, I thought, Ooh, that's so interesting. I'd never thought about it that way. It's like a little trap we can fall into because we think we got to say, you get this many calls with me, you get this type of blah, blah, blah, but people probably don't care. Do you tell people, just let them ask you that That? That's such a good question because features are important, but what you want to do, at least the first handful of sections on your website is really create that connection, earn that trust, establish the roles, establish them as the hero and you as the guide. And then eventually they're engaged. They want to know you, they want to learn more, and you've earned their trust for them to spend their time on your website. And so farther down on the page, I think those features are a great thing to include. Absolutely. It's not like there's no place for that type of information, but it really needs to be done strategically and methodically. And so just starting with yourself as the guide at the beginning of your website, it's not the right time. You haven't connected and earned the trust to be that role yet. And so back to the movie analogy, it's like 20, 30 minutes into the movie, then the guide enters in, but we've established this connection and knowledge about the Yeah, so good. It's a fun kind of easy flow to follow. So let me ask you this. I think kind of the theme of the conversation so far today has been sometimes you just don't even know. You don't know you're doing it wrong or you don't know that there's another way to approach it. You're such a wealth of knowledge in this space. Is there anything I haven't asked you as it pertains to copy storytelling, homepage design that you think people should know or that's important to help convert more sales and attract their ideal Yes, definitely. So there's one piece I mentioned a little bit earlier, which was the hero has a problem and then the guide enters in and gives them a plan. And so a really important part of your website is detailing out a very clear plan, but it has to be so simple because what happens is people are, you're meeting them where they're at, they're having a problem, they're having a struggle, they don't know how to overcome it, which is why they're at your website. And then you're painting this picture of what success looks like for them. And they're like, okay, that's what I want. I want to get there. But I liken it to the guides on one side of the river and the heroes on the other side of the river, and you're saying, come over to this side. I got And they're like, but how? This river is vast and wide and there are a lot of rapids going on. I don't know how to get across to that side of the river. So the plan, what it does is it tells them, oh, it's not as hard as you think it is in three steps, I'm going to throw three giant boulders into this river. And each of those boulders is a step to get to your picture of success. And so the first boulder is always the call to action. What action do you want them to take next once they're at your website? Typically it's schedule a call with me. That's probably the most common one. So step one, schedule a call with me. Step two communicates, you'll get a clear plan or we'll work together and strategize to come up with blah, blah, blah. So it's kind of the meat of it. What are you going to do together? It often equates to a custom plan or your custom solution. And then step three is always the happy end result. So if you're a financial planner, it would be schedule a call with me. Step two, we'll put together a customized retirement plan based on your values and your lifestyle. And then step three would be have peace of mind around your retirement and do the things or spend with joy and ease, right? It's like imagine spending with joy and ease in retirement because there's enough money for you to last you. And so the step three is always that happy end result, but that plan is a very important piece because it shows them that there isn't this vast divide between where they are and where they want to be. And it also really shows that you are the guide and that you know how to take them from A to Z and that it's not as painful or Yeah. Oh my gosh, this is so good. You're getting me so lit up and inspired where I'm like, I think I win an update all the copy on my web. I don't think I've ever said I want to go write copy, but you're literally getting me so excited to be like, we need to revamp this. This is incredible. Kris, in a moment, I want you to tell everyone where they can connect with you, and I want you to talk a little bit too about your offer because it's phenomenal. Before we do that final question for you, I would love, I mean, I just think, I love highlighting women on this show who are about success in all areas of life. So obviously on the show we're all about financial success and financial abundance and career success, but also about, to me, success is happiness at the end of the day. So success in all areas of life, personal, professional, what would you say as a woman who I think demonstrates that, what would you say is the number one piece of advice you would give to a woman listening who wants to break through to her next level of success in life? Invest in yourself. You do not have to figure this out on your own. In fact, you usually can't. We all need help with things, but especially when it comes to copywriting for your own business, that perspective is so critical and the genius is there. It's all in you, but sometimes you just need someone to help pull it out or identify those really important nuggets and Oh, that's so good. That's one thing I believe in and one thing I preach is when you invest in yourself, you show yourself that you're worth it. You show the universe that you're worth it. It's like a declaration of whatever the goal is that I have, I am worth I having it. This is because I'm so worthy, so beautiful, beautiful advice there. I love that. Kris, I'd love if you could take a moment and share a little bit. I know you've got a great freebie, and then I also know you have this incredible offer that I usually don't have people come on and I actually talk about their offers, but I want you to talk about it. You were telling me about it earlier and I was like, oh, it's so good. I think our listeners are going to want to take advantage of it. So can you share a little bit about how people can connect and move forward Yeah, so I am working with female entrepreneurs, and the offer is essentially StoryBrand website copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat. So the people I work with, they're busy, they're overwhelmed, they don't have the time for this long, arduous process of back and forth, and it's a collaborative program. So the whole experience is two and a half hours, and then you get website copy that is story branded, tells your story and converts. So it's really, it's designed for those busy entrepreneurs who are just ready to double their conversions and have a website that actually does the work of selling for them so they can just focus more on what they love. Oh my gosh, when you told me you have your homepage copy done, two and a half hours flat, I was like, oh, amazing. Done, sold. And it's such a no-brainer. So where can people go to find out about that and to get You? So that is@grow.red door designs.com. That's grow.red with two D's, red door designs with an s@theend.com. Awesome. Awesome. And then I know you've also got a really cool freebie too that people can take advantage of. So tell us a little bit Yeah, so there's a free downloadable video and worksheet that helps you confidently answer that question. What do you do in a way that really attracts the right clients and gives you just a lot more confident about communicating your work? And the really great thing about this freebie is that it does help you communicate your work and your value, but when you go through the process, which doesn't take more than 15, 20 minutes, you can use that copy, you can repurpose it on your LinkedIn profile, you can put it on all your social media profiles, you can even weave it into your website. So it's kind of like this workhorse that you can repurpose. You don't have to keep reinventing Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And that is, we're going to link all this in the show notes, but that's clarity with Kris.com, right? With Kris Awesome. Oh my gosh, Kris, this has been so fun. I knew I was going to love the conversation, but you have really, I think, broken down and made something that feels so overwhelming, so simple, and so approachable. And so I want to say thank you for doing that because that's no easy feat, but it just goes to show how having the right process and framework and the right guide to help you makes all the difference in the world. So super grateful for you coming on and sharing your genius and your brilliance with all of us today. Thank you so much for having me. And I feel the same about you. I'm continually inspired by how you're showing up and what you're putting into the world and witnessing the growth of your own business. It's been so inspiring for me. So thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Alright to you my listener. I want you to go connect with Kris again. We're going to link everything in the show notes, but I would highly encourage you take advantage of that strategy session. If you're listening to this and you're like, Ooh, yeah, I know I need to improve my copy. I know I could do a better job there and I want to get it done fast and with a pro. So take advantage of that. Go connect with Kris and again, I'm so grateful for you being a member of the She Sells community. Super grateful to have you as a listener of this show, and I'll see you on our next Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. If you found value in an I would be forever grateful if you took a moment to leave me a review as a thank you to you, I'll send you my video confidence and lead generation ebook for free. This book is an in-depth deep dive into how to grow your confidence on video and use it to generate unlimited inbound needs on social media. In an I share the exact strategies I've used to create two multiple six figure businesses off of inbound leads that come in almost exclusively through social media videos. Now, all you need to do to get your ebook is just take a screenshot before you submit the review and email it to me@eliseelisearcher.com. And of course, make sure you've subscribed so you don't miss out on our new episodes every week. Always remember you are worth believing in and going after what you want. Making more money and growing your business in a way that feels great to you is your birthright and it's my honor to be on your journey with you. Alright, sister, I'll see you next week on our *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/6-figure-coach ### Title: 5 Mistakes Most Business Owners Make with Copywriting, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4968494 ### Content: ## 5 Mistakes Most Business Owners Make with Copywriting ## The 6 Figure Coach Podcast, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones 5 Mistakes Most Business Owners Make with Copywriting, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones **You’re not alone if DIY-ing your own copy feels a little bit like torture.**  In my recent conversation with Neill Williams, we uncovered the 5 mistakes most business owners make when writing copy and how to avoid them. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn why storytelling is 22 times more memorable than plain facts ? Unearth the secrets behind crafting an engaging story that keeps them glued to your page.  ? Understand the hero-guide dynamic — this subtle shift makes all the difference in getting more sales. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Hey, I'm Neil Williams. I'm a mom, a wife, a master certified coach, podcaster, and entrepreneur who has ditched the idea that a four hour work week is somehow required for a successful business. I spent years overworking, but then something big happened. I figured out how to take control of my schedule, and when I did, I got way more done and less time and made more money. After that. I grew a multiple six figure business working 10 hours a week. alo was still in my corporate day job. Since then, I've made it my mission to teach other coaches how to grow businesses. They love to six figures in just a few hours a week. If you are ready for full-time, business success on a very part-time schedule, get ready to find out that success is easier and faster than you ever thought to be possible right here every week where I share the strategies, tools, and mindset that build a six figure business that doesn't require a lot of time or a lot of selling. Welcome to the Six Figure Coach podcast. Welcome to this episode of the six Figure Coach Where I'm teaching you how to build a business that you love in just 10 hours per week. One of my secret weapons for being able to do that is the guest that I am sharing with you on this week's episode. Her name is Kris Jones. She is one of my amazing, brilliant 10 K in 10 hour students, and she's going to be sharing with you how to write copy that sells for you in two and a half hours. This is amazing. You probably know if you've been on the online business track for a while or you've been in the online business world for a while, you know how wildly important it is to be able to write words that sell for you. Writing copy is one of those skills that we want to be building on our path to becoming six and seven figure coaches. It's a challenging skill for many of us because it's something unlike anything else that most of us have ever done. But I want to share Kris with you today so that she can walk you through her process of how she does this with clients. I think this is going to be a wildly valuable episode for you. You might want to take notes on this one, and if you're interested in joining 10 k, 10 hours, I want you to know that Kris is a regular contributor to that program. So she comes in and she teaches you how to write copy that sells for you in a very focused way. She's also a regular contributor. We have a workshop with her every single month. If you are interested in joining a hundred K Funnel course, this is one of the things that you get as the piece of 90 day support. You get three workshops with her, and she is brilliant at taking your words and turning them into copy that makes it And simple and clear for your person to understand what you do and how you can help them. Please enjoy this episode with Kris Jones. Welcome, Kris. I'm so excited to have you on the six Figure Coach podcast. Yeah, so I can't wait for you to tell our listeners all about what you do and how you help people like us try to get really good at writing coffee. One of those things that is like, it's a skill we all know we need to master. We know the benefits of it, but it seems like it's really challenging for so many of us. So that's what we're going to be diving into today. And so Kris, could you just start out and tell us who you are and what Sure. Yeah. My name is Kris Jones and I have a company called Red Door Designs. I've been at this for over 20 years, which is crazy to even think about, but that tells you how much I love my work and how much I enjoy the freedom of being my own boss. It is the best life that I'd recommend to anybody who has the courage to go out on their own. So yeah, I've been at it for 20 years. I've always really had a heart for fellow entrepreneurs because I'm just, like I said, I enjoy it so much that I want it for everybody around me. And so I started out my career as a designer and worked for many years doing that type of work, got into website design and as the internet was becoming a thing and back when you could have a beautiful looking website and basically no copy and it would still work for you, there was hardly anyone on And over the years, I really started to realize my clients were struggling so much with giving me the copy. So they would give me their copy and then I would design them their website, and it was the biggest sticking point in the entire process. They had a hard time, it felt like homework. It kind of felt impossible to them. And then sometimes I would get these pages and pages and pages of copy, and other times I'd get next to no copy. But either way, it was not strategic. So I kept looking for copywriters that I could partner with to really help my clients essentially, and hired over the years, a handful of people. I just couldn't find anybody who really aligned with my minimalistic approach. I have a very less more approach, but I also, it's important for me to create something that is really going to help my So eventually I took the bull by the horns and learned how to tell stories from a psychology standpoint and from a framework standpoint, how are stories told? And not only that, but how do you tell stories in marketing? So the fundamentals of story actually stay the same, but there's a way to do it in marketing that it feels really authentic both to the business owner and their audience, and it's incredibly effective in attracting the right clients without being pushy or salesy or cheesy or just, I mean, there's so many ways that you can go wrong with coffee. But the beautiful thing is that I found an approach through Donald Miller who's a brilliant marketer, brilliant writer, and he created a framework called StoryBrand, the StoryBrand Framework. He wrote a book called Building a StoryBrand, and it resonated with me so framework. I was on board with this approach before the book even came out. Oh my gosh, this is really early days when I was just in a room with me and a couple dozen people and Donald learning the framework, and then he invited me back to Nashville to deepen my learning because we really clicked, and I've never looked back for the first couple of years. I kept being like, wow, this is really effective. This approach really works. Storytelling was kind of the missing link for my business. And the more clients that I worked with, the more types of businesses that I worked with, it just kept working. I've still yet to meet a business or a company, I don't care if you're Nike or if you're an individual that it is not incredibly effective for. And that is why I love what you do so much because those of us who are entrepreneurs like you all, I have mass respect for anybody who decides to be an entrepreneur because not only do you have to be good at the thing that you're an so-called expert in, but you also have all of these skills to build as a business owner. And one of the things I know this has been challenging for me, and I think it's challenging for many entrepreneurs, not in this way, but it is in writing words that are simple and direct and that resonates with our person. And the way that we talk about this with you, what you do is writing words that sell writing copy that works, writing compelling copy. And so I love so much that, and I'm so grateful that you chose to work What we really struggle with, we don't necessarily have a team. We might have a few people, but certainly not like a marketing director or something like that or a CMO, something like that. And so we're having to figure that out on our own, which is super challenging. We're going to talk about that as one of the problems here in just a minute. But I'm so happy that you have a solution for those of us who are in that camp or we're thinking, taking on the marketing job and the writing copy job. The reason why I think there's so much bad copy out there for the group of people that I'm talking about is because we simply don't believe we have time, nor do we believe we can do it effectively. So why would we use our time to do that? And when we first started talking about your offer and you told me that we could construct a program where you could teach people how to write copy that sells in two and a half hours, my mind was literally blown in that moment. I knew for sure that I was going to buy this program that you create in because your ideal person, and I knew if this was true, I could really write copy in two and a half hours. I would like a hundred percent in. So first of all, I just want to thank you for doing that work and for helping those of us in this group who struggle with this so much. And I am so excited that you're here because I wanted to share you and the work that you do with everybody on this show because it's directly tied to what these people are working through and the struggles that they have. So I think let's just start with some of what you've noticed. You've been doing this work for a while and you're an expert in StoryBrand, which is so interesting because I read Donald Miller's book four years ago maybe when I was very first starting out, and then I didn't really do anything with it. I was like, yeah, this makes it, but it seems like a lot of work, and I don't know that I have time for that, right? Yeah. So I'd love for you to talk with us a little bit about the common obstacles or the common mistakes that you see people like me and people who are writing their own copy make and how you can help them and how you do help them Yeah. Before we dive into that, one thing I want to say is that if you read building a StoryBrand and you're having a hard time implementing yourself, you're not alone. There is a big, it's really challenging. You read the book and you're onboard, you're nodding your head and Bridging that gap between reading the book and actually being able to write your own copy is it can feel really impossible. And I think the reason that the program works so well, the program that I'm doing or that I'm offering is because you are not doing this alone. I'm teaching you how to do it. So you really kind of learning how to fish or you're learning the fundamentals of the strategy, but then we actually get to do it together. And that's why it works. It's because you're not stuck alone on your computer with a blinking cursor and a blank page. So it's really, in my opinion, kind of the And I think we need, I mean since you brought that up, let's just go there right now. We were talking about some of this ahead of time, and I shared with you a few weeks ago a story about a coach who I am not going to name, but this is a person who is a very well-known individual inside of my community. And I was talking with her the other day and she was saying this thing that literally made me curl up and want to die was she had paid $60,000 for a marketing agency to come in and do some work inside of her business. So one of the things that they did is they rewrote a sales page, and the sales page was for her main offer. And after that work was done, it was like a lot of work on her team and her part plus them, plus a lot of money. And the 60,000 wasn't just for that sales page, it was for lots of other things, but the sales page converted worse after all of that work was done. And I have, oh my goodness. So I think there's those kinds of horror stories out there, which kind of, for someone like me, number one, I don't have $60,000 to go spend on a marketing individual right now, but even so this has been my experience, even in the amounts that I have invested that having to, the ideal is someone just goes and writes it for you, that would be dream come Experience has been that that is not even possible. So can you speak to that a little bit in your experience about that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's not uncommon for someone to spend 10 to $20,000 on a single sales page. I mean, that's just, Normal often like industry norm, right? And so the reason that doesn't work is, number one, a lot of copywriters know some strategy, but they don't really necessarily know storytelling. But the bigger reason that it's not very effective is because when you're a solopreneur, you are your brand, you are your business, and you're sending people to your website, and you've got to feel good about that. You've got to feel excited about that. And if your website doesn't sound like you or feel like you or it doesn't resonate with who you are and what you're about, you kind of cringe a little bit every time it comes up. And people want your website and you're like, so the reality is no writer can write the way you write, no writer can go off and work in a silo and capture your voice and your vibe, and also the nuances of your industry. I mean, if you've been at this for a while, you really know your audience and the types of words that they use, the struggles that they have, and nobody knows that better than you, so you have to be part of the process in Yeah, I think that's such a good point. I don't think that copywriters are trying to do a bad job. I just think that the copy that comes out is ineffective because it's out of alignment for one of two things or both things that you just said. Either it's none in alignment with you and who you are and how you want to be in the world and your brand, or it's not what your people say. It's not the words that they use. It's not the way they think. It's not the stories they're telling themselves. It's just off base because they don't know your audience. You do. There's no way that they could have known that except maybe if they did a ton of research or something and they interviewed some of your people and got their exact words, maybe that would work. But I still think there could be a misalignment because it wouldn't be like your words necessarily your vibe, like you said, Right? I mean, it's so much more efficient. You really know that all the little nuances of your people in your industry. And what's really ironic is that let's just say you spend 10 to 20 grand on hiring a writer to save time. You don't want to deal with it, right? You're busy, you've got 20 things on your list and you just do it for me and get it done. And the irony is that the back and forth revisions of you trying to communicate to them why this is off or why this won't work, or what you like about this and don't like about this, why does this feel, doesn't feel like me, but I don't know why all that back and forth of revisions takes longer than if you had just, well not done it yourself. That takes a long time too. If you had done it in a collaborative way with an experienced guide, you could have done it in two and Yeah, we'll be done, which is what I love about what you do because I've had this experience. I've done both. So one of the things I think that we do wrong is try to do it ourselves, and I want to speak to that in just a second, but I've also done the opposite of trying to have someone write copy for me. And that has not been a positive or I wouldn't say positive, it just hasn't been an effective experience where I did not same back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and you're so frustrated by the end of it. So the way that you work with your clients, and I know this because I've already been through your program, is in a collaborative way, so it's not a done for you or a DIY, it's a done with you, and I was so hooked with that way of doing copy. I don't know that I will ever do it in any other way. Yeah, I mean, I think just after doing this for so many years, I kind of cracked the code on how we can do this in an effective way that's painless for the business owner that's really fast and efficient, educates them so they really understand strategy moving forward for their own business. Because once you know story, you can apply it to all kinds of things and writing for yourself becomes a lot less daunting. So that's kind of how it came about. It was like, believe me, I've tried the approach where I write it for you. I've tried to do that for clients. I've hired people to write copy for me. I mean, I totally get all the pain points that come with both sides of that coin. And I think it was just literally over years, the trial and error and then kind of really recognizing, I think boiling it down to how can I really There were a lot of people even in my own community that really needed help and I could help them, but they couldn't afford to work with me and that didn't feel good. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to create something that's really affordable. I can work with those solopreneurs that I really adore. A lot of magic happened, number one, it just became a fun process for both parties involved. And number two, what I found, I had worked with larger companies for many years and what I found in working with the solopreneurs is number one, these are my people. We're all cut from the same cloth in many ways. And so that just felt really resonant. The other thing about it that I think is so extraordinary is that when you don't have a lot of cooks in the kitchen, your copy stays true to you and the strategy and the effectiveness of it maintains its integrity. And so what I found working with larger companies is just that Joe Schmo would take this copy over to the accounting department and get their feedback on this and that everyone has an opinion. And what I've crafted is really, and what I think is most effective no matter who you work with, is really a one-on-one relationship with the business owner. So decisions can be made, we can get to the heart of things really quickly. I can intuitively ask the right questions and we can really move the Totally. Yeah, I love that. That's so interesting. I haven't even thought about so many people giving their opinions and views, but I can see how that would be so challenging. So challenging. It's Challenging, but then it waters down the strategy, and so then ultimately it's taken five times as long and it's not as effective. Totally. Yeah. Okay. So we brought up something a minute ago that I want to have you speak to in your experience. So those of us who are trying to do it ourselves and then we're really hard on ourselves because we're not good at it. Tell me a little bit about, you said this to me when we were first raising together. No matter how hard you try to do this on your own, it's not going to work. So talk to me a little bit about that. What's going on that makes it so challenging for us to able to DIY, this kind of skill? Yeah, it sounds very Debbie Downer and dismal, doesn't it? It's never going to work, but the reality is it's kind of liberating because what you realize is that, oh my gosh, I'm not alone. It is this hard for everybody. And I can tell you, I have yet to work with a business owner that shows up on a call and says, oh, yeah, I whipped up my copy. It was really fun. I enjoyed it. Here it is, never ever happened. And it's so hard because we're basically, the metaphor I like to use is as a business owner, we're kind of inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside the bottle. We are so close to ourselves and we are so close to our own business and we are the business. So it's just all these layers of just being too close to everything. And in order to write effective copy, you have to have perspective. The reality is all those nuggets are within you. You've got the story in there, you've got the right words, you've got the ability. But unless you have someone to kind of pull that out of you in the right way and then put the puzzle together in the right order with the right flow and the right strategy and the storytelling approach, it kind is impossible. That makes so much sense to me as a coach, because that's why we hire a coach. You can't see what's inside your own fishbowl. Yes, you can coach yourself, but it's only so effective because you're missing the thing you can't see. Totally, totally. I can see how that is absolutely true. So the trying to do it ourselves, very, very challenging, if not impossible to make it work well and then having someone else do it for us, also very challenging because of those reasons that we talked about earlier. So makes a lot of sense to me then why you chose the done with you path, the more collaborative approach. And since I've gone through this, I can speak to this and your program is writing words that sell in two and a half hours flat, and I did. Anybody who wants to see the effect of this, one example of it can go to my website, www.dot com, and at the top of the menu, you'll see the link for the Click on that and it will take you to the page that Kris and I did together. And I'm cringing a little bit inside when I'm saying this, but compare that to some of the other pages on my website and see the difference. It's very, it's wildly different is what I'll say. So I loved the process that we did because basically what happened was I signed up and then you sent me, it was like a questionnaire basically that I filled out. I think it was nine questions that I needed to answer, and I did that. And then you were like, okay, great. Now schedule your call with me. And we had a 90 minute call. It was like when we got together, I was so proud of myself, but here was my mistake. I was like, we already built the site based on just the The way that I answered the questionnaire, you were like, yeah, yeah, we'll look at that later. And you brought up this whole template for the site with all the words and everything already on it, and I was literally mind blown. It was so much better than what I came up with myself. And now I look at it, I'm like, oh, obviously Neil, that's what she does. She would be able to see this better than you. But then we spent that entire call going through that template and just checking in on every single piece of it, and you were like, what do you think about this? How do you feel about this? Does this feel in alignment? What do your people think about this? Well, how do you think they'll react to this? And we just kind of refined it through that call together. And it was such an easy process for me, and it really was less than two and a half hours because I filled out that worksheet in, I don't know, 30 minutes maybe, and then our 90 minute call. So for me, I think it was two Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think really when you know the right questions to ask, and then with each question I have a five minute video, so you're really learning why is this question being asked and what's the meaning behind it? What's the strategy behind it? So you're kind of learning while you're answering the questions. And then I get those questions, which is so fun for me when somebody sends me their homework and then I get to puzzle piece it together and really craft their story. So I take a first pass at your wireframe, and a wireframe is really just a roadmap for your website. It's really like your homepage in black and white, and it's a long format, homepage or sales page or whichever page you choose. But it's a long format because number one, we want to tell the full story. And number two, I really like Your about page and your services page are all on that long format wire frame because people like scrolling better than they bouncing around from page to page, especially when they're looking on mobile. So it's just this really comprehensive page and it's really a thorough process. But so I take a first pass at that wireframe and that way that allows us to not start with a blank page on our 90 minute collaborative session, and I can say, here's what I'm getting, here's what I'm recommending. Now what we need to do is just really fine tune, refine, and make sure it's totally dialed in, not only for And that really was my experience. It was the easiest, most painless process that I have gone through in terms of writing copy. So now, so you all know kind of addicted to it, I'm like, okay, Kris, we're going to redo every single page. So now it's just to be a matter of me getting on her schedule to be able to do that. But it's so valuable. It's so helpful. I think if you do choose to work with Kris directly, and we're going to tell you how you can do that. I think what you'll find is you'll see such a difference in the page that you create, whether it's a sales page or a homepage or whatever it is that you'll be like, oh my gosh, now this doesn't even look like the rest of my stuff. And it'll be like me where you want to now redo everything else to make it in this format. And the thing that I love about you is your minimalistic approach, because that really is an alignment with my philosophy for the world, quite frankly. And so it really landed for me, it really resonated with me that there isn't a ton of copy in any section. It's really strategically chosen words and well-placed in a very intentional way as we go Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And think the other thing that can kind of let people off the hook is that people don't really read websites anymore. They scan them, they just scan them really quickly. And so if you don't write it with a scannable eye in mind, it's not going to get absorbed. So So I want to go back to a couple other things that we talked about that are mistakes that many of us make in our copywriting. So we've talked about a few of them. How about the one that, you said this to me the other day, that story is super important, and I can't remember the stat that you told me, but you said something about it's 20 times more memorable That. Yeah, so story is our brains are really wired for story because you think of kind of thousands of years, man has gathered around and women have gathered around the fire and shared stories. We're truly wired for it. And this is why it really reaches parts of our brains that are subconscious. And so the reality is we respond to it. It's why movies are just so engaging. We forget about everything in our life when we go into a movie or watch a movie. And what's really cool is that stories are 22 times more memorable than just facts. Try and think about an event that you went to recently where there was a speaker and try and recall something that they shared. The thing that you're going to recall about that is a story that they shared. It might've been about their childhood or a big mistake they made in business or whatever. You're going to remember the story, you're not going to Yes, I mean, I can literally think of right now, Amy Porterfield just told a story on the podcast I was listening to, and I remember the story, and then I can always go back to the point she was making with a story, even though I don't first recall the point that she was making. I just interesting. I mean, I think what you're sharing is really the beauty of story is that we learn through story and we connect through story. And if you're doing those two things, it does a lot more than that. But that's really Totally. Yeah. And one of the things you told me that you see people do in terms of story is in story you've taught me there is a hero and there's a guide, and many of us get stuck in talking about the hero that we Yeah. Speak a little bit to that. So yeah, I'll give you the most simple version of story. So essentially every story has a hero and a guide. And as business owners, we are the guide and our clients are the hero. The hero's actually the weakest character in every story. They have a problem that they want to overcome, but they don't know how to overcome it. And so they are looking to the guide to show them how to overcome their problem. And the reason we engage in stories like this is because we want the hero to win. We want them to find success, but we don't know if they've got what it takes. And we can't disengage. We literally can't disengage. I dunno if you saw Born Identity or I mean Karate Kids a great example. We can't disengage until we know Karate Kid won that championship, but we don't know if he can do it the whole way through. And so that's why they wait till the end to let you know, because if Karate Kid won the championship 15 minutes in, we'd get up and Yeah. So what happens is, and this kind of ties in really well with the fact or just the people that try and write copy for themselves, you open up a blank document, you're like, oh, what do I put on my website? How am I going to write my social media? What am I going to write in my emails? I guess I'll write about me, right? It's my business. I'm going to write about me. People need to get to know me. And it's like I get why people do that. I mean, of course, right? Of course you're going to do that. But what happens when you do do that is you make yourself the hero of your own story. And there's really only room for one hero in every story. And we really want to make sure that's our client and not ourselves because what we're really doing when we tell our brand story, this is not like a once upon a time, my great grandpa started this business and then I took it over. And it's not that kind of a story. What we're really truly doing is we're crafting a narrative that invites our potential customers into a story with us, the hero, and we're the guide and we show them what success looks like and we help them really know And I feel like a little bit about laying out the path for what is the guide lays out the path that someone's going to take, and it's not necessarily the entire thing, but maybe it's one step at a time and is leading Looks like. Absolutely. So absolutely every hero has a problem. They look to the guide to basically every guide gives that hero a plan to help them overcome their problem. And so it's really important, this is one of the most important parts of the website, is to give people a very, very simple plan of what they need to do. And an example of this could be, number one, schedule a call. Let's talk about your vision or your dreams or your goals, and we'll find out if we're a good fit. Number two, I'll put together a customized plan or we'll work together to make sure you are fill in the blank. And then step number three typically ends with the happy end result. So the idea really is that as the guide, imagine you're on one side of a river and you're heroes on the other side of the river. They really want to make it to your side. They really want to cross that river and be with you, but they don't know how. And so what you're really doing by giving them a plan is laying out three gigantic boulders in the rapids so they know, oh, I need to step here, then I need to step here, then I need to step here. And now I've reached the I love that image that you just gave. So that will stick in my mind now because you just told me story about how to move my client along the river to the other side. So I love that idea so much. And so since we're talking about that actually, so take me through the process of somebody working with you and where they're going to end up at the end of the day. I mean, I've shared my experience, but in your words, what would be the first thing that you So for my plan or for my program, what's the process For your program? If somebody is like, oh my gosh, I totally need Kris's help, what would be the first thing that you would Think? Well, the first thing they'd do is go to grow.red door designs.com, and that's where all the details are. And once you buy the offer, you're going to get a 15 minute video of me really showing you the shortcut to storytelling and StoryBrand. So you don't have to read the book unless you want to or you've read the book, but you need a refresher. So it's a real quick, just hear are the fundamentals and then you'll do 45 minutes max for you. This took you 30 minutes. I have eight different videos and each of them are only five minutes long. So you'll watch the video and then answer the question in a Google doc that I give you, it's a Google Doc worksheet. So you just answer a handful of questions and then share that with me. And then we schedule a call, a 90 minute call, zoom call between the two of us, and by the time we get on that call, I've made my first pass at your wireframe, and that way we can hit the ground running and just fine tune, fine tune and massage it. So it's like we knock it out of the park by the end of that 90 minutes. And then you've got a really clear plan of every single word that needs to go on your homepage or your sales page, and you can implement it yourself. A lot of the clients that I work with have built their own sites. They've got Squarespace sites or Wix, and so within a day or two, they've implemented the copy and they can start seeing the results right away. And so that's really exciting. Or they can hand it over to their designer who can implement it for them. So either way, the designer has really a really clear idea of exactly what the flow is, what the hierarchy of type is, where images aren't going to go, where text is going to go. So it's a very detailed plan that doesn't leave a lot of questions. And then once everything's implemented, you share with me your final page and then I create a Loom video going through the entire page just giving you feedback on not only the copy, but the overall design and even colors, all the details, font, treatments, everything. So you can really just look at a total professional. I mean, that's the goal. You just want to build that trust and reach people super effectively. And I loved that there was that final review that you did because I was like, okay, we're good. And then I sent it to you and you're like, no, I'll do this and change this. And it wasn't huge things. It was just little minor adjustments, but altogether, it really did make a difference in the final product that we had, and I was so appreciative that you were there and doing that for us. And the other thing that I want to say, I think this is a strategic byproduct that I didn't realize was going to come out of this work, and maybe you didn't know either, but from my experience now when I go to write copy for my a hundred K funnel course or I'm talking about it in some capacity or I'm writing an email about it, I just go back to that webpage and I recycle half the stuff that we put on that page, and I'm like, it's already done. It's just like I didn't realize the repurposing byproducts that would happen from that. And it's really made a lot of things so much simpler for me at least in terms of that one particular offer that's inside my business That has happened time and time again. And that's often what I tell people, but I actually haven't included that on my page. But that's a big benefit of the work because basically once you craft your story, that's your story and you don't have to reinvent the words every time. And the page really does become your brand Bible. And anytime you're creating copy for anything, I do it with my own site. When I need copy really quick, I go to my own site and I just pull from it depending on what I'm writing for, but it's all there for me and it is like the gift that keeps on giving. It's like that little workhorse of your business. And so yeah, it's one of the most wonderful Yeah, I can see social posts, emails, maybe you're doing a webinar where you're promoting it and you just use some of the copy from that. We've used it in all those capacities already. So it was just like this thing I didn't even realize was going to happen, and I was so delightful like, oh, I Right? Or Instagram profiles, even your profiles, LinkedIn profiles, it's all there. It's all done. You just copy and paste. You can tweak it a little if you need to, but it's really liberating to just have it done and have a resource that is just always there to support you. And so again, we're just also busy, so however we can save time and be more efficient, that's what Yeah. And the other thing I love about it, I mean, does it make you money? Yes. That's why copper writing is so expensive is because it is a money making activity, meaning it increases conversion. So yes, there is that part of it, but in my mind it means that we have the ability to impact more people and not have to use a lot more of our time to be able to do that. So it's a very time leveraged activity investment, in my opinion, in our If you're going to put, somebody asked me this the other day. They said, when do you know when you should DIY it or when you should hire a copywriter? And I said, and I don't say this because this is the work I do, but I say this just because I've been in the business so long. It's like, here's the deal. It's really hard to write copy and it's very time consuming and just hire help for your copy and then if you want to save a little money, DIY, your website design, go to Squarespace. I mean, they don't let you go wrong. That platform, the templates are beautiful and they're constrained in a way that you can't make it ugly even if you don't know how to do design. So that's where you should really save money because the tools are just so good Yeah. Yeah, I like that. And maybe that's where we leave it is considering if you're going to invest in your business, really thinking about where the best use of your dollars are. I didn't know until now. I know that I would invest in working with you and doing copy over some other things that I had chosen to invest in before, but it's very clear to me now the impact of that and where, like you said, you can make a choice in DIY, some other things that are maybe easier to do on your own, as we've talked about, D iy copy is very challenging, if not impossible to do so I love that perspective. So anybody who's listening who you're like, I know for sure I want to work with Kris or I need her help, we're going to link up all the URLs in the show notes, so feel free to do that. Or like Kris said, the URL for the website if you want Yeah. And Kris has a really amazing lead magnet up right now. It's called Write Compelling copy in five minutes flat, and I highly recommend if you want to start there in terms of working with her, that you go grab that immediately and can they get that at that same website, Kris, You can get the free workshop is at Clarity with Kris, and Okay. We are going to put that in the show notes as well, so anybody who's interested in that can go grab that. Kris, thank you so much for coming on and talking through this with everyone. I obviously adore what you're doing, one of your happy clients, and thank you. I am just so grateful that our path is connected and I get to share you and what you're doing with everyone else in the world because I think it's so, so helpful and it's such a needed thing and they're such a cool in the market. So thank you for doing what you're doing. Oh my gosh, thank you. Thank you for having me here. Thank you for having this wonderful conversation. Of course, I've loved every minute of it, and I could talk about story all day long, and it's just a blast. So Have you come back and talk about some other things. I feel like this is not the end of our conversation. We have many more things to I'm so excited that you just finished another episode of the Six Figure Coach podcast. Each time you finish an episode, you are another step closer to building a business you love in just 10 hours a week. And if you want more valuable content just like this, make sure you join me over on Instagram at Neil Williams coach, where I do a weekly funnel fail Friday. This is by weekly Funnel Roundup, where I share with you what's working and what's not with my own six figure sales funnels, so you can learn from my failures and fast track your way to your own six figure funnel success. See you there. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/marketing-and-mindset ### Title: How to Answer "What Do You Do?" When You're a Health Coach, with Dr. Kim Foster and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4968506 ### Content: ## How to Answer "What Do You Do" When You're a Health Coach ## Marketing and Mindset for Wellness Coaches Podcast, with Dr. Kim Foster and Kris Jones How to Answer "What Do You Do?" When You're a Health Coach, with Dr. Kim Foster and Kris Jones In a recent conversation with Dr. Kim Foster, we discussed how to create an impactful answer to the dreaded question, "What do you do?".  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Navigate the secrets of confidently crafting a narrative about the work you do. ? Discover the power of addressing the problems your audience faces. ? Find out how to present your service as the solution to the hero’s problem. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. A lot of us know what we do, but we can't communicate it clearly. When you figure out how to write your own marketing copy, everything else begins to work for your business. It does take some energy initially, but once you've got it clear, you never have to reinvent that wheel when you can confidently communicate what you do. So much happens. Welcome to Marketing and Mindset for Wellness Coaches, the podcast for health coaches and wellness entrepreneurs just like you who are building a business, making the world a healthier place, and designing a first class life. I'm your host, Kim Foster, MD and certified business coach, and I'm on a mission to help you uplevel your strategy and raise your mindset so you can truly thrive and grow your business. Let's get started. Welcome back to the show. I'm Kim Foster and I'm an MD turned coach, a business mentor for my fellow health and wellness coaches, and also the founder of the Wellness Coach Academy. Now, if you are building your business, that's whether it's a side hustle or your main gig, someone has probably asked you, so what do you do? And this one seemingly innocent question can cause a lot of people to feel paralyzed and kind of like a deer in the headlights. It's so awkward, right? I mean, you want to talk about what you're doing because you know that it would be beneficial for you in terms of networking and getting the word out. But how do you answer this question in a way that's actually going to sound interesting to people? Well, if this is something that you struggle with, if you dread being asked the question, what Then this episode is definitely for you. My guest today is Kris Jones, and Kris is a StoryBrand guide and the founder of Red Door Designs, a website design company, and she was mentored by the StoryBrand founder Donald Miller himself, and she's got over 20 years of experience in clients like Nike under her belt. Kris is extremely passionate about helping self-employed women to get website copy that sells so that they can multiply the revenue and really focus on what they do best. I'm super excited to share this interview with you because I had a fantastic conversation with Kris, and I know that the wisdom that she shared with me is going to help you not only with dealing with this super awkward question of what do you do, but also with your messaging in general and a website that connects with your dream clients. So let's get into Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here, Kim. Yeah, I am really looking forward to our conversation today because we're going to help people, hopefully help them with a number of things, but specifically help them figure out what to say when somebody says, so what do you do? Which I mean, I dunno about you, Kris, but I hear this all the time. My clients and students who are health and wellness coaches, they really struggle to properly answer that question or to just to know how to gracefully answer it or effectively answer it or whatever. So I'm excited to hear the ideas that you've got to share on this particular bugbear, how to handle this question. Before we get into all of that though, I just want to give our audience a bit of context. So I would love for you to just tell everyone about you, Kris, and tell us what brought you to the work that you're Okay. My name is Kris Jones and I am the founder of a firm called Red Door Designs, and it's red door designs.com. I've been doing this work for about 20 years, and my passion is really around storytelling and simplifying the way we do things in business as entrepreneurs and solopreneurs. So I started out years ago in design and then through the years started building websites and recognized this really giant struggle that all my clients were going through around writing for themselves and writing their own copy and writing for their own business. And it was literally time and time again. Every call I'd get on, I'd hear, why is this so hard? Why I am a smart person, why can't I write for myself? And so after that happened about a hundred times, I decided to really narrow the work that I do and really focus on that piece because when you figure out how to write for yourself or you know how to get the help that you need to write your own marketing copy, everything else begins And it's a wheel that it does take some energy initially, but once you've got it clear, you never have to reinvent that wheel. So you do that hard work once and then it keeps working for you time and time again, and you can repurpose it on all the platforms on your website and your social media. I've just found it to be so incredibly effective for my clients that that's really my passion, and I help people really create copy in two and a half hours flat. Nice. So the people that I work with are busy. They don't have a lot of time, and also they just want it to get done. So the idea of getting to check that off your list and within two and a half hours is like, interesting. So you came to it from this design background thinking that you are going to be designing beautiful websites for people and then really discovered in being in the trenches working with people that Yes, of course we, and I think this is why people want to have a website designer too, is to have this really beautiful visual, great looking website, but what you found is that's not even the hard part. Really the sticky part where people get really tripped up is actually in the messaging and the writing and the copy. Is that sort of That is so true, and also because I've been doing this for a long time. Years ago, maybe 10 years ago, maybe 15, you could have a beautiful website and it would do well for you. And nowadays really, if you don't have great copy, you can have a beautiful website design, but if you don't have copy that actually tells the story and really connects with people and motivates them to take action and gets them excited to work with you, it's not going to work for you. And so yeah, over the years I really recognized if you've got your website copy down, and believe me, coming from design, I am a huge believer in the power of beautiful design. I'm all about it. I really appreciate elevated design, but what I found was design is actually secondary to copywriting, and getting clear on that copy is fundamental to business success, where if you have a beautiful brand design, it's great, but it's not That's so good to hear. And really that's coming from a designer, so that's really valuable to hear because I think a lot of people can dismiss that. We get sort of caught up in something that looks pretty, but a pretty website, like you say these days, there's just not going to be enough. It's just anybody can have a pretty website. So there needs to be so much more to connect. Okay, so let's get into this. I wanted to start by talking about why the issue of starting with handling this question of, so what do you do when you get asked this question? Why is that particular issue important? And also how, of course this relates to your website and your online presence and stuff, but why do you think it's important to have your messaging really ready to go so that when you get confronted with this question, you can really confidently communicate what you do in a clear and compelling way? Tell me Well, you just hit the nail on the head with the word confidence. When you can confidently communicate what you do, so much happens. People immediately trust you. They immediately get excited about the possibility of working with you. They get really clear about that you solve. So if they don't need that problem solved, they know friends. So everybody you tell you end up entering into an engaging conversation with them, number one, so it's a lot more fun, but then they become your engine of like, oh, she's the woman who specializes in helping people with Lyme disease or coaching people through whatever health issue is going on. So that's a big one. It is also really important just personally feeling the confidence and having the clarity around what you do. A lot of us know what we do, but we can't communicate it clearly. And so once you bridge that gap, you just show up more confidently, And the way that you answer the question, what do you do? Once you get that down, those words, you literally use those same words on your social media profiles, use those same words on your website. So yes, it's important to be able to answer that question, but it's also important because it affects all the other areas where you show up online. Even on your business card, you can put this. So I really encourage people to memorize it once they've got it down, put it up on their wall and make sure it's in your own words and it feels natural to you. The beautiful thing about answering that question is that you want it to feel casual and conversational, and that in and of itself is just so refreshing. Nobody wants to hear a robot using four syllable words in their answers. So yeah, it's effective on so many levels, It's just this really powerful thing. But the other reason why it's so important is because as coaches and as business owners and solopreneurs, we get asked that question a lot and people are just trying to figure out what you do or make conversation or learn about you. And two mistakes happen a lot. Number one, we don't answering the questions, so we just answer with a two word answer, a three word answer, I'm a health coach, and then the conversation just falls flat and they're like, oh, okay, well, where'd you grow up? Or it's just pivot, right? Or, oh, those deviled eggs, sure look good over there. Let's still move over to the buffet table. So that happens, which is no fun. And then the other thing that happens is what I call the curse of knowledge, which is essentially just you're so close to the work that you do that you end up kind of talking over people's heads around your niche or your specialty. So it can kind of be the opposite of the two word answer, and it can be overwhelming for people to try and digest too much information about a topic that they're not familiar with. So when that happens, you notice the eyes glaze over and they're trying to track, but they can't, and then you've kind of lost. Yeah, I think we've all been on the receiving end of that kind of thing where we ask somebody innocently what they do and then suddenly we're getting a whole lecture on the details of their industry using jargon and all kinds of things. There's just frankly boring to us. So yeah, I mean, I think if you can think of, okay, don't be that guy. Don't be that person who just blasts this unsuspecting stranger with all kinds of industry stuff. Cool. Okay. So what are the fundamental parts that you have to figure out even before you can create this messaging around what you do, what you need to know before you can really craft that message? There are really three parts to crafting that message. And the way that you really begin this conversation is by getting clear on the problem that you solve. So who do you work with? Who's your audience? I mean, we can even do this kind of live, if you want to throw out an example of a client that you have or some people that you know, but it might be like, I help, I have a friend who has Lyme disease, so I'm in my Mind. Yeah, use that with example. You said that before. So the problem might be a lot of people that have Lyme disease struggle with even getting out of bed in the morning. And so right then and there, I've identified who I work with and the problem that they're So it's very simple. It's just a one sentence thing. But notice the power of starting with a problem is that our brains, psychologically, we are problem solving machines. And so we can't disengage when someone presents a problem to us. Fundamentally, our brains can't disengage until we know that problem has been solved. And that is the reason why we go into a movie theater and you watch a character like Jason Bourne or whoever else has a problem, he can't know who he is, and we sit there for an hour and a half waiting to make sure that that problem has been resolved. And so it's the same thing, but in a more mini format when you're answering this So it starts with that, and then you really present your service as the solution to that problem. And so you say, I'm a coach who helps people with Lyme, readjust their diet and get their energy back, something like that. Or I have a program or I have a three-step program that helps people with Lyme. Notice, I'm just talking about my solution. All it is, this is my solution. So step one is the problem, step two is the solution. I have a program that helps people with Lyme get their energy back. So problem, step one, step two, solution. And then step three is the success that they get to experience so they can enjoy the things they love again and engage in established ourselves as the guide, we've established the hero and we've shown them what success looks like, and we've, as the guide, we show them, I have a process that helps you solve your problem and reach success. So in these three little steps that feel short and simple, there's so much psychology and so much power that goes on in this little story, and then people go, oh my gosh, I have a cousin with Lyme and I got to connect you, or, wow, I struggled with that or, so it begins a conversation where who knows where it can lead to, but in a perfect world, it will just keep getting you more clients and you can start also learning what words get people more excited or get them to engage on a deeper level so you can kind of play around with it a little bit. workshopped version of the answer to, so what do you do would be, I'm a health coach and I work with people with Lyme disease. That would be just kind of like the flat statement, that kind is the conversation, non-starter sort. If it's like a closed loop, it ends it and then we're off to the deviled eggs. So that's the one. But then what you're saying is, okay, start with talking about the problem, because you're right, that's a problem that people, it sort of opens a question in their minds tapping into that human psychology. And then people want to know, okay, well, and so what's the solution to that? So they would say something like, and this could be, are you talking about when people are actually to the question? So what do you do? Well, how people with Lyme disease or people with Lyme disease simply can't get out of bed because they don't have the energy. I'm a health coach who works with people with Lyme disease to modify their diet and change their lifestyle so that they can get the energy back. And those are the two pieces, the problem, solution. And then the third is the why, the big kind of what is actually success going to look Piece, and we really want to be exuberant about this. We want to show them, part of that role is showing them what's possible. We think in such limited ways that as the guide, you have to show them, if you do this, what's possible for you is that you can get back to living the life of your dreams. You can live a life that was better than what it was prior to. You can climb a mountaintop if you want to climb to a mountaintop. So again, you don't want to get too detailed, but we really want to get into the hearts and the minds of our people. What do they really dream about? If I've got lime, I would really dream about, for my friend anyway, she had to quit her job. And so I think for a lot of people with Lyme, they are really wanting to get back to work again or getting back to playing with their kids on the weekends. So we really want to tap into what's their heart's deepest desire, and then how can we amplify that and really show them that this really is possible for them? Yeah, because a much richer, fuller story that you're telling rather than just the plain statement, but you're not by tapping into all those human emotions and really showing that story arc, you're not going into, it's more detailed, but it's not going into the industry jargon, boring detail that we're talking about. This is just human needs and universal human experiences. And I would think that somebody who's on the receiving end of that elevator pitch or just that response, even if they don't have Lyme or really have somebody who's close to them who has it, they can imagine it because you've kind of painted this whole story arc of a character in a movie you called upon that character who started with Lyme and actually didn't start with Lyme, but started feeling like having its great full life, got Lyme disease, couldn't get out of bed, lost a lot of things, their livelihood, all that, and then regained it. And so that's compelling. So we're all drawn into those kinds of story, character transitions and all of that kind of stuff. Yes, yes. I mean, the way that you experience, whether you're talking to somebody at a coffee shop or a networking event or just out to dinner meeting people, I mean, your life, the way you interact with people totally changes when you engage in this way. The conversations get really real, they get really rich, then people are very curious or they have a story to It taps into that natural curiosity. I think so much more than just, I'm a health coach who works with people with Lyme. A couple of things that you mentioned there, definitely. I know that you're certified. You mentioned the guide and the hero and all of those kinds of things. Is that the framework that you're drawing from to kind Absolutely. So yeah, I'm a certified StoryBrand guide, which just means that I am certified to basically help my clients understand how stories are told and to craft their own story. It's inspired by a book written by Donald Miller called Building a StoryBrand. I do believe every business owner should have that book. It's full of so many good nuggets. But what happens is people read the book and then they're like, okay, I get it. I'm on board. Storytelling is the answer to marketing. And then they're like, oh my gosh, I just pulled up this page and it's the blinking cursor I, yeah, exactly. Where do I start? And then we put it off and then a year goes by and then we hire someone to try and do it for us, and then they can't quite capture our voice. And it's a challenge. It is. It's hard to do it yourself and it's impossible hiring someone else. They can't capture Yeah, agreed. I mean, talk to me though a little bit more about this. I'd like to dig into this a bit more. Why is it so hard for us to write for ourselves? Why are we paralyzed? We can understand the concept on a cognitive level of that I need to create the story. I need to position my customer as the hero of the story. I'm the guide, all of that kind of stuff, so we can understand it on one level, but then when it comes right down to it, why is it so hard for us to write for ourselves? Why do people struggle with this? Well, the first thing I want to share is that it's truly hard for everybody, even for writers. It doesn't matter how many degrees that you have under your belt. This is hard to do for ourselves. And the reason is because we are too close to ourselves to talk with perspective. In order to write compelling copy, you really do need some perspective. You need some distance from yourself and your own business to be able to see this is a good thing to talk about, but this is maybe too much. And so the metaphor that I use is really we are all inside of a bottle as entrepreneurs, as coaches, as business owners, we're inside the bottle trying to read the label of the bottle, but that label can only be read from outside the bottle. So just by the very nature of like, we are our business. We are us, I am me, I can't write Yeah, that's so true. That is a perfect metaphor. I can visualize that. Definitely. So if that's the problem though, what's the solution now? Do we need to get outside the bottle? Do we need to get somebody To do? Right. Well, the beautiful thing is there's a really simple solution, but the reality is as entrepreneurs, we've just only had two options for so many years. We either DIY it and write it ourselves and try and figure that out, which feels to most a little bit of torture. Or we hire somebody. I know people who have spent upwards $40,000 for a single sales page copy, but it's not uncommon to spend 10,000 on a sales page copy. And yet that person is, I'm sure an incredible copywriter, but nobody can capture your voice, but you are the only one. So that puts everybody in kind of a pickle. What do we do about that? Well, the way to solve that is through a collaborative copywriting process, and that is why I created my program literally just to create, there's got to be a better way that allows you not to have to do this by yourself because we know that doesn't work. You're in the middle of the bottle and also allows you to really inform the process with nobody knows your business better than you. Nobody knows your clientele better than you. You are the voice. So my role in the process is really like you've got all the information on the inside. You just need somebody who knows copy strategy and knows how to pull those nuggets of information out of you and then organize them in a way, a little puzzle pieces together to craft your story for you. And then the process is very collaborative. So we get on a 90 minute call and we go through the entire wireframe of your website and make sure that it's totally dialed in with your voice and the nuances of the terminology of your industry. So it's collaboration that's really the magic key to copywriting that feels aligned with who you are and yet is also really effective at attracting more leads for Yeah, I love that. I mean, that feels like such a logical solution because it's still then with that collaborative approach, it's still then coming from you. It's still, you understand your clients the best and you understand how you want to, what ideas you want to put forward and what you believe in, but you don't have that outside perspective. So to collaborate with somebody who is outside the bottle who can help you to hone your messaging so that it really is going to resonate and is not just all garbled because it's just too much about you or whatever other mistakes that you're making just to make it more clear. So I love that class, so it's not DIY, and it's not done for you where you just hand it over to a copywriter who may or may not be able to fully capture your essence, but it's more like collaboration with somebody who can help to pull that essence out of you and make it clear for the wider Yeah, it's so much fun. What's really cool about it is that a lot of the entrepreneurs that I'm working with have been dreading this and putting it off for so long, and then they go through the process and like I said, the whole thing takes under two and a half hours. So it's quick, but they also, everybody finds it so fun. I have a blast. They have a blast. We're working together, we're getting it done. And then you've got this foundation. Not only is your website written for you, but you've got this foundation of copy that you can pull from, so you can go to your website and pull information for, like I said, social media or LinkedIn or whatever. You never have to reinvent the wheel. You never have to rewrite it again. Yeah, I was thinking about that because it goes then far beyond just the website. I mean, the website is one place where your messaging is going to live, but I mean that core messaging and how you're going to show up, that's how you're going to show up and how you talk about what you do everywhere, whether it's social media or in person or that networking event with the deviled eggs, wherever it is. But you've got it straight and clear and it appears on your website just always there visible. So I love that. That's Yeah, I mean, the beautiful thing is really that then your website becomes like a sales a 24 7 sales person, and it's working for you. So when you get on your sales calls, people are already queued up and excited to work with you. They just want to chat and engage, but you don't have to get on calls and do a bunch of selling because that's already been done for you. And so you get to spend more of your time just doing the work that you really Love. I love that. And then you're also proud to drive traffic to your website because you know that when they get there, they're going to get so much of the core messaging, all the information that they need, rather than get to your website and still feel kind of confused about what it is that you do or how you can help them and all of those kinds of things. But it becomes really the goal is you're going to need to start sending people to your website. I know a awful lot of people in the beginning, they might create a website, but they don't really feel super confident about how it's presenting them to the world, so they're hesitant to actually send traffic there. So that's not a good thing. You really need to be to feel confident that your website is doing the job that it needs to be doing. Yes. One question that I get a lot is really like, okay, if I'm new in my business, where should I be spending my money and where should I love answering this question because it's so liberating and there's so many cool tools out there that can help us, especially when I watch what's happened with design over the last 20 years and the invention of Squarespace and Wix and things like that that just allow people to really build their own websites and feel empowered to go in there and not only build it, but go in and make changes and updates. And I think it's really an important thing to do if that's what you want to do. But your website is so, so critical. The great thing about Squarespace is their templates are pretty rigid. They're beautiful, but they're pretty rigid in that they won't let you mess up their Yes, there's good and bad with that rigidity, right? Right. Exactly. But that's really the good thing about that rigidity is no matter if you're not a designer at all, you're going to have a beautiful website with Squarespace and then put your money into getting strategic copy so the website actually works. And then as we're becoming our own bosses and building our businesses, I think it's important to talk about what role does the website play and all the different things that we feel like we have to be doing. And a lot of clients I talk to, they're like, I feel like I need to be on social media. I've got to be doing this. I've got to be doing that. And it's like my take on it is less is more do the things that you're naturally drawn to doing. But if you imagine a flower, so the center of that flower is your website and all the pedals are things that you can do around your business. It might be networking events, it might be going on a podcast interview or it might be social media. So those are all the pedals around and all the pedals point to the middle. Every pedal points you to the website. So I really like to say your website is the center of your marketing universe, and everything points there. So if I would say, don't worry about any of the pedals, focus on your website, that's where you're going to get a return on That's great advice. This has just been such a great conversation, Kris. You've shared so many insights and just such a useful framework of how to approach our messaging and some solutions for all of that, and it's just been such a pleasure talking to you. Before I let you go though, I believe you have a special offer for our audience or just tell us where people can go to learn more about you and get in touch with you. Yeah, so I have two places that you can go. If you are a DIYer and you want to delve deeper into answering this question, what do you do and kind of crafting your own mini story, you can DIY it with my mini workshop@claritywithKris.com, and that's Kris with a K. So clarity with Kris.com is my free offer. It's a five minute workshop and you're going to get a lot of information from that. I also offer in there a worksheet along with a video, and then I am more than willing to give your audience feedback. If they want to share the Google Doc with me, I can give them feedback on their worksheet. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. And then if you are a business owner or a coach and a coach and ready, just ready to get your copy done with you through a collaborative process, you can work with me and to do that, go to grow.red door designs.com. That's grow.red door designs.com, and we will get I love it. That's so great. I will put all those links in the show notes too so that people can easily find them. Kim, thank you so much. This has been a real blast talking I don't know about you, but I loved that conversation and I loved digging into Kris's approach for tackling the question, what do you do? And also all of her wisdom around messaging and website copywriting in general. I would love to know your thoughts. Is this question something that you have struggled to answer in the past? Do you feel like you've got a more specific approach now for how you can craft your response? Let me know in the comments below this video, and in fact, I would love for you to actually write out your elevator pitch and your response to this question. Let's see what you have come up with. Of course, if you are listening to the audio of this episode, then go ahead and find me on Instagram and share your thoughts with me over there. I would love to continue the conversation about this. Okay, that's a wrap for today. Have a wonderful week, and I will see you again very soon. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Now, if you enjoyed this episode and you are excited to take your coaching business to the next level, then I would love to invite you to attend my free online class called How to Build a six-figure Health Coaching Business using one signature program. And that's even if you are a brand new coach, I will be revealing the three behind the scenes secrets to financial freedom without exhaustion, burnout, or being a slave to social media. In this free class, you'll learn the exact blueprint to having the impact and life you desire, even if you're not sure how to make it happen. Right now, I'll also tell you about the single biggest mistake new health and wellness coaches make and what to do instead, and I'll be teaching you exactly how to design a signature program, step-by-step, including how to price your offer. And yes, I give you real numbers to attend this class. All you have to do is sign up at Dr. Kim foster.com/six figures and *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/robyn-graham-show ### Title: Create Compelling Copy That Converts, with Robyn Graham and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4969256 ### Content: ## Create Compelling Copy That Converts ## The Robyn Graham Show, with Robyn Graham and Kris Jones Create Compelling Copy That Converts, with Robyn Graham and Kris Jones **Ever felt stuck writing copy for your own business? I get it.** In my recent discussion with Robyn Graham, we show you why it’s so hard and how to overcome it.  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Writing for yourself can sometimes feel like deciphering a label from inside a bottle.  ? The curse of knowledge often leads to an overcomplicated message that doesn’t connect.  ? How to effortlessly communicate the work you do in a way that people “get it”. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Introducing the Purpose to Results Academy, which will launch January 16th, 2023, and classes begin February 2nd. We will kick off the inaugural Purpose to Results Academy with a free masterclass January 16th at 1:00 PM Eastern Time. The link to register is in the show notes. In addition, be sure to join our email list so that you don't miss any updates on the program or any reminders. The purpose to Results Academy is for faith centered women who want to start and grow a service-based business with simplicity that impacts and influences the lives of others in a positive way, all without relying on social media. A few of the details of the program include, reinvent and transform your career with simplicity while becoming an entrepreneur. Start transition and grow your business with the help you need to avoid spinning in circles, spending time, money, energy on resources and tools that won't produce Get your idea out into the world and make an impact while making money. Gain clarity around your God led calling purpose so you can create a business that makes an impact and leaves a legacy. Create a personal brand that helps you stand out as the expert you truly are. Become an authority in your niche. Gain clarity around your soulmate clients. Become more confident about working with them and convert them to paying clients faster. Develop a detailed brand marketing strategy so that all of your efforts resonate and connect with your soulmate clients. Learn SEO tips and strategies for tech systems and processes to streamline and automate your business without having to spend a fortune nor endless hours researching on Google. Discover how to navigate and overcome hidden mindset barriers that can hold you back, like doubt, anxiety, perfectionism, comparison, money, mindset, procrastination, Reach and convert soulmate clients without being chained to Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, or any other social media channel. Make money faster and create a lifetime of potential by building a solid foundation from the beginning. Be held accountable for intentional effective action so you can speed up the process and get results faster. Have a safe place to share vulnerabilities associated with your journey and ask questions. We're also going to use scripture to inspire you and help you stay aligned to your fate on your entrepreneurial journey. This program is going to be so transformative whether you are just beginning just starting your business or you are well into six figures, this program is for you because we are going to learn so many things that will make your business and life so much easier, better, and you are going to be able to get results, but also get results for your people as well. I hope you'll join me again. Be sure to register for the masterclass. Be sure to sign up for our email list. All those links will be in the show notes because I don't want you to miss any of the details. We'll see you soon. Hey friends. Welcome to the Robin Graham show. I'm so grateful you're joining me for another episode where we dive into entrepreneurship, faith, mental health, and so much more. I'm your host, Robin Graham, a brand strategist, business coach and mentor. Join me every week to learn how mindset, strategy, and action combined we'll produce the results you were dreaming of. Discover your purpose and follow your God led callings, values, visions and passions to create a personal brand and strong foundation for long-term success. The sky is the limit. When we spend time with like-minded people through interviews and solo episodes, we'll be diving into inspiring stories, life and business journeys of failure and success, and the strategies and tools used along the way. Ready to learn. Grab your cup of coffee, the car keys or the dog's leash, and let's dive in to this episode. Hello, beautiful friends, we are back for another episode of the Robin Graham Show. I am thrilled you're here with me today and I have another phenomenal guest. Kris Jones is joining me today to talk about writing compelling copy. Now, a lot of you may be saying to yourself, well, I don't know how to write. I can't write copy myself. Or you may be saying, well, I have to write copy because I can't afford to hire a professional copywriter. So there's a lot of things that go on in the mind when we think about writing. And sometimes even if we love to write, there is a significant challenge writing for our business, and we often get stuck in our own heads thinking, well, nobody cares about my story. My story isn't going to help anybody else. My story doesn't add value to anybody else's. But here's the thing, and we're going to dive deeper into this today, is that every experience you have had has led you to where you are today, and God has called you with a purpose on your heart to help certain people. So those people are just waiting to hear your story because that story is going to help them connect with you emotionally. You're going to resonate with them and they're going to understand that you are the bomb and you are meant to work with them and solve their problem. So we're going to dive deep into that today, and I hope that at the end of this, going to be able to sit down for five minutes and write your story. Alright, without further ado, Kris Jones, welcome to the Robin Graham Show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. Well, I love what you're doing. I love storytelling, I love copywriting. I love all these luscious nuggets of entrepreneurship that you're going to share with us today. So tell the listeners, please a little bit about you and what brought you to the point in your journey that you're at Okay, so my name's Kris, as you already know. I live in Portland, Oregon, and I run a boutique firm marketing firm called Red Door Designs. I've been in the industry now 20 years, so I've been at this a really, really long time, just kind of crazy, and I really started my career out on the design side of things. So I use design to tell stories visually, and I love design. I love beautiful, clean, simple design. And as my business developed and I work with more and more and more clients, I started to recognize the challenges that my clients were having around copywriting. And so they would hire me to develop a website for them and we'd pick a project start date, and I'd say, okay, your copy is due on this day. And they would say, okay, well, what should I write? And I'm like, just write about yourself. You can do it. You've got it. You've got two weeks. And then sure enough, that date would come and we'd have to move the date back and move the date back and move the date back because they were struggling so hard at trying to figure out what to say on their website. And so eventually I just decided I'm not going to let my clients struggle anymore with this. It can't be that hard. And I was already doing a lot of writing, but I didn't really have a strategy that I could teach my clients around how to do it. And so what I did was I just made it my mission to kind of crack the code on how to write copy in a clean, easy, simple way that truly connected with their clients and really helped grow their business. And so in 2017, I connected with Donald Miller, who is the author of Building a StoryBrand, and I ended up flying out to Nashville and going through his certification process and really diving deeper into the And it was mind blowing. I was just soaking it in and loving every minute of it. And I came back and I started implementing this approach with my clients and all the websites that I was building. And it was shocking what was happening with their businesses, how effective it was. Once they used real strategy behind the copy on their websites, their businesses grew so quickly without a lot of effort because their website became their most powerful marketing tool. And so people would get on the phone with them ready to engage, ready to hire them because they were already sold by their website. And so that's kind of how it all unfolded. And now essentially my takeaway from all of that was beautiful design means very little unless it's paired with very strategic copy that tells a good story. And so all the work I do is now focused on how to tell a story, how to create strategic copy for your website that And I think my unique special gift is around simplifying things so they're just so clear and easy and not daunting because believe me, I've spent years of my life avoiding copywriting and dreading making it. It feels like homework that you don't want to do, but it's such an essential part of being your own brand. And so I understand that struggle and I don't want to go through it personally, and I don't want anybody that I work with or anybody that I know to have to deal with that kind of headache anymore. So that's why I've created the work that I do now, which is helping people write copy for I love that. So a couple of things you said, and you said very clearly that the website became the biggest marketing tool. And I love that so much because I am a total geek when it comes to search engine optimization. But if you're not writing good copy, you cannot have good search engine optimization because of the use of keywords, key phrases and the layout, the readability, and all those other little nuances that go along with it. In addition to when you talk about having a beautiful website, you also want to have images. And I think you and I both come from the background of visual artistry and becoming more visible and telling your story visibly. And I think that when you have the written word in combination with beautiful imagery that also connects, you deepen that emotional connection so much further than just But I want to add to that for those people out there listening, and I've talked a little bit about this more so in my emails and my blogs than I have on the podcast, but I took a sabbatical from social media because I wanted to do a test. It was draining me. And I wanted to do a test to see, okay, what happens if I go off of social media? What happens with my business? And because I've built a decent website, I'm not going to say, great, I am sure it could use some improvement, but I'm pretty proud of it. But because I've worked with a designer and done all of these things, my website is pretty resourceful. It works for me versus working against me or not helping me. And so at the end of the day, when you have a tool like that, you don't have to spend hours and hours and hours and hours on social media trying to convert people to become your client there. So I just wanted to add that in the website is indeed your should be your best friend and your business. So I kind of rambled a little bit, but let's talk a little bit about the process, I guess. And I know you have a five minute kind of guide where people can learn how to write good copy in five minutes. Can we break that down for the Absolutely. Yeah. So first off, I want to just start by saying writing for yourself is really hard. And it's not just that it's hard, it's legitimately it can feel impossible. So I just want to let your listeners off the hook around the challenge of writing for yourself. The reality is when you are trying to write for yourself, it's a lot like you are sitting inside of a bottle trying to read the label of the bottle. That can only be read from the outside. And this is why we need coaches. This is why we need to ask for support. And it doesn't have to be even paid support. You could ask your neighbor or someone who's an ideal client for you to give you feedback, but I just want you to remember that there's a reason why it's so hard. And the other thing that happens a lot is we're in our industry for a certain amount of time and we're so close to it that we've forgotten what it's like to not know what I call this the curse of knowledge. And so we either talk over our potential clients' heads or we simplify it down to something that doesn't engage them. So there are two things that those are the two struggles that I see most. And what I do around storytelling is really break down every story and the components of it in three different steps. So every story you've ever heard, every movie you've ever watched, every book you've ever read begins with a hero who has a problem that they don't know how to solve. And then a little bit later, that hero meets a guide who has a solution. And so that happens, and guess what? You are the guide. You are not the hero of your own story. You are the guide and your customer or your clients are the hero. And then that guide gives them a plan, and that plan guides them to experience So that is really, it's that simple. A hero has a problem they can't solve, number one. Number two, they meet a guide with a solution. And number three, that hero finds success because they've met the guide and the guide showed them the path to success. The way we break this down around telling your story, and this is truly like it's less about telling your story, and it's more about inviting your potential clients into a narrative with you where they can envision themselves with you in the story and they play the hero character. You're the guide character, and you're in this story narrative together. And that's the key to making copy compelling A lot of people, I would say 99% of the websites on the internet today, the company or the brand makes themselves the hero of the story that they're telling. And there's only room So you essentially kick your potential lead out of a story with you. They don't connect with you. They don't want to keep reading because you're already the hero of this story. And so there's no way for them to really get pulled into the story with you. So I think if you take nothing else away from today, it's really that you're the guide and your clients or your potential customers are the hero of your story. And the way we break this down is to always start your story with the problem that your customers have. So we always want to say, when someone asks, what do you do, you would answer the question starting with the problem that your customers have. So if I were a parenting coach, I might say, many toddler moms feel overwhelmed because there aren't enough hours in the day to get it all done. Now notice I've just shared a problem that my ideal clients struggle with. Or if I were a retirement planner, I might say, many people over 50 worry that their money won't last them through retirement. And notice how you're like, you're getting pulled in. You want to know, okay, and is this problem going to get solved? Tell me more. I'll give you one more example. So for an eye surgeon, if I were an eye surgeon, I might say, after age 40, many people struggle with eyelids that inhibit their vision and make them look older than they are. And so these are ways that you can begin your story, and those are some examples of how to start your story with a problem. So first, you identify the people you're working with, so many people over 40 or many toddler moms, and then you follow it with the problem that they have. And then after that, we introduce the guide that has the solution, and that's you. So you might follow it. Let's get back to the toddler mom example here. So I'll repeat it. The problem, many toddler moms feel overwhelmed because there aren't enough hours in the day to get it all done. I help them change their relationship with time. And notice I have just stepped in as the guide right there with a plan, with a solution. I help them change their relationship with time. Or I'll give you an example again with the retirement planner. My proven method takes the guesswork out of retirement planning. Notice I'm not telling you how I'm solving the problem, I'm just telling you that this is the problem that I solve. And you don't have to get into the detail of it. For the eye surgeon, it might be I'm a surgeon who specializes in eyelid restoration. So like, oh, the guide is a surgeon who restores eyelids. Cool, so tell me more. Right? And then as the guide, one of our biggest jobs is to show them what success looks like so they know what's possible for them. And so we end this story showing that the hero is experiencing really incredible success. And that example, again, I'll just continue with the parenting coach one, I helped them change their relationship with time. So that's the solution. So they can parent with more joy, peace, and connection. And for the retirement planner, my proven method takes the guesswork out of retirement planning so they can spend with And then for the eyelid example, it might be I'm a surgeon who specializes in eyelid restoration. So that's the solution. So you can look, see, clearly, look more youthful and feel your best. So notice this is really a full and complete story. It's the shortest story you've ever heard, but it contains all the components of what make stories compelling. You've got the hero with the problem, they meet a guide with the solution, and then they find success. And this approach and process can really work like an accordion. So right now, our accordion's very shrunken down and condensed. That's why we're telling a very, very short story. But depending on what you're writing for, whether it's a blog or your website or really literally anything else for your business, you can expand this accordion out to be much wider. So you can dive deeper into the problem. You might want to add a few sentences after that that really describes the problem and goes deeper into it. You might want to go a little deeper into your solution, and you might really want to paint a longer and more extensive picture of what success looks like. So no matter what, it works for everything, and you get to choose how short or long you want to make Okay, I love this, and I've read Donald Miller's book, so the StoryBrand book. So I'm familiar with all of these terms, and it is reverse psychology when you think of it this way, because we want to be the hero always. But what we really want to do is allow our soulmate clients to be the heroes of their own journey. And the more we can make them feel that way, the more we're going to build their confidence in what we're doing for them. So I do and appreciate his model and how he teaches. And listeners, I will put the link to his book in the show notes so you can reference that and read that for yourself if you're interested. So my question for you is, we now know how to write this story that is going to help our audience understand how they can become the hero by us guiding them. Does this go on? My question to you is, does this mini version of the story go on the homepage and then we extrapolate it out on another page? Or how do you suggest we place this beautiful story? So once you've got this story, essentially what you want to do is repeat it as much as you can. So you want to put it your social media profiles. You want to put it in your email signature. You want to put maybe a shortened version on the back of your business card. You can put it on your LinkedIn banner. So you can pull from this, you can do the whole thing together, or you can pull from it little bits here and there. Often what I'll do is I'll pull something out for the header of your website of this. So you've got all the nuggets in here that you need. And sometimes I'll put it all together on the website, or sometimes I'll pull something out for just that header area. We take the guesswork out of retirement planning, so you can spend with confidence, even a bite-sized version of that story, just so when people land on your website, all they really care about is themselves. It's just how we're wired as humans. They want to know what you do and how it's going to benefit them. So this story really is hero centric because they're trying to figure out how you're going to make their lives better, and we want to make it very easy for them to understand that you're going to do that for them. Okay, so the story though, do you recommend having the story on the homepage and obviously breakout for headers and things like that, components of the story, but then on the service page as well, do you extrapolate out more of that story on the service page? No. Or what about page when you're telling about yourself, how do you incorporate the story into that without sounding so, oh, I am so awesome, I do all this. Right, Right, right, right, right. You use the same formula for different areas. So for example, I had a client that was giving three different, she had three different offerings in her services section, and they were three different types of workshops. And so she went through this storytelling process for each of those and created, each workshop had its own story or mini story. So you would do it specifically if your workshop were, any workshop would be solving a specific problem. So you would just hone into that and regenerate the copy for each of those workshops. And then on the about page, you can do a similar approach. I mean it really on your website. The beautiful thing is you don't have to talk about yourself a lot. People want to know that you're qualified. They want to know that you've got authority. When you're the guide, you really do show up with empathy and authority. It's a lot about helping them understand, helping them know you understand the struggle that they're going through and that you can help them through that. So the about page is a little bit of a different process than this, but I mean, it's different. It's a little bit more complicated than the 1, 2, 3 approach that So when you talk about writing copy for the about page, Yeah, because we said this in the intro that it is so hard for people to write about themselves and tell their story, and we don't want to write from when I was two years old, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We don't want to tell our whole life story, but we need to pull out those integral parts that are going to connect with our audience and help them understand how we I mean, that's really what they care about. So when you are writing your own story, it's really not all that much about you. If you went to my website, I don't go into a whole narrative of my history because people don't really care. Number one, they're scanning the website, so they're not even fully reading a website. They're scanning it really quickly. And so I like to use really short bits of copy that don't require people to put out a lot of effort to read the copy. And so even the copy about you is fundamentally about your hero, and you really want to, it's not like you can't talk about yourself, but you really want to frame everything around the problem that your clients are having and how you can solve that. So even my about section is we get a little bit more into the aspirational identity of what my customers want to be and why that's hard and how my solution, I break down my solution a little bit deeper. I do 1, 2, 3 steps. Here's how I solve this problem, step one, step two, step three. So it really is, I mean, it's really all about your hero. And the main thing you want to communicate is that you understand you have compassion. You know how hard it is and that you have authority in this field. So it's one of the most important sections on the website is highlighting your experience. And that might be 18 years in the industry, 350 clients, happy clients, or 18 certifications you don't need. Even one. But the more you even that needs to be done strategically because if you start overly trying to impress, then you become the hero again. So we really want to remind ourselves, nobody caress all that much about us. They just want to know, can we solve their problem and are we qualified and do we understand them? Do they feel a connection with us? And the way we create that connection is through storytelling. It's through talking about them, it's talking about their problem, talking about the way we articulate their problem, and the more clearly we articulate the problem immediately, they believe we are the best one to solve it. It's like a weird psychology thing that happens so much on a website, happens instantly, especially with storytelling and especially with photography. So if you're pairing photography that tells the story and shows you working with a potential client and helping that, part of that is showing you as the guide and the connection that you have with your clients. And so now they're able to envision themselves in that narrative with you. That's the power of photography when it's paired with storytelling. It's like this superpower and when it's done right, by the time they get to the bottom of your homepage, they're ready to book a call with you and they want to work with you and they're excited about photography and copy. Okay, so Kris, this has been fabulous. I expect all of the listeners to start writing copy today. Take your five minutes and just write out your story, guys, because I think there is so much power to this. And you could even start by developing something for your homepage, but practice this using practice using this for your email marketing strategies as well, because there's a lot of power to that. And if you're on social media, use it for your social media posts too, because I think you'll connect with people more openly and readily. Kris, how can the listeners learn more from you, Yeah. If you are fed up with writing your own copy and you just want to do it, get it done in two and a half hours flat, then I have an offer where that's what I do. We write your website copy and it takes two and a half hours and we're done, and you check it off the list forever. If you are wanting to DIY things and dive deeper into the strategy of storytelling and learn the tools of how to do this every time you're writing for your own business, then you can go to clarity with Kris.com. That's Clarity with Kris with a k.com, and you can sign up for my freebie there. And otherwise, go to red door designs.com and you can get everything there and sign up for the 2.5 Awesome. You guys, I will put all of those links in the show notes so you can access them easily. I encourage you to visit the show notes because I'll have a recap of everything that Kris said, and you'll be able to take away more details than probably you were able to capture unless you were sitting there frantically taking notes. So if anybody has any questions about that, anything we talked about today, feel free to email me at info@therobingraham.com. And if you know anyone who is struggling with writing their copy, direct them to Kris first. Direct them to this episode, share it, leave a rating and review if you found it helpful, and we will see you all next And that's a wrap. Friends, if you enjoyed this episode and found the information helpful, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating and review. That would mean the world to me. If you know someone who could use the information shared today, please share the episode with them too. And let's connect. You can find me on Instagram Clubhouse, Facebook and LinkedIn as the Robin Graham. Lastly, if you'd like more information on personal branding and brand marketing strategies, be sure to join my email list and the Female Entrepreneur Insider Facebook group. We are there every week with tips and trainings to help you build a solid foundation for brand and business success. And don't forget, on the website, you can find a plethora of free resources. Go to the robin graham.com/resources and download any of the free resources that I have created to help you build a personal brand that stands out and makes an impact. Until next time, remember to smile. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/million-dollar-landscaper ### Title: Words Matter: Create Compelling Copy That Converts, with Scott and Kati Molchan, with Special Guest, Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4970058 ### Content: ## Words Matter: Create Compelling Copy That Converts ## The Million Dollar Landscaper Podcast, with Scott Molchan and Kris Jones Words Matter: Create Compelling Copy That Converts, with Scott and Kati Molchan, with Special Guest, Kris Jones **How do you talk about yourself on your website without making yourself the hero of your story?**  In my recent conversation with Scott Molchan, we explored 3 ways to boost revenue using story.  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? The number one mistake most business owners make with their website copy. ? How to articulate your customer’s problem in a way that compels them to take the next step with you. ? Ways to strategically use your story everywhere you show up online to maximize sales with less effort. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Ooh pillows. Welcome to the Million Dollar Landscaper Podcast. We're your host, Scott and Katie Mulch, and we make it easy to start working on, not just in your landscaping business. We're a real couple that helped grow our family business to well over a million dollars in revenue, and now we help other landscaping business owners just like you to do the same. Are you ready to build your business? Let's get started. Welcome back to the Millionaire Lands Care podcast. Now, before we dive into today's podcast, I want to remind you our three month accelerator program is starting soon. It's starting here in January, and it's only open to a number of spots. We're keeping the small and intimate program that's going to help you ensure you have time to ask questions and get what you need to get to succeed in 2023. So if you're looking to take your business to the next level, then you need to check out the three Month accelerator. We're offering a comprehensive three month program is to help you better understand your business's numbers, how to put together a winning estimate, how to create a winning sales process, and how to hire, train, and retain those key employees. We believe in you and we know with the right support and tools you That's why we're giving you this opportunity to get more coaching and resources designed to help you succeed. Now, during these three months, we're going to have weekly 90 minute coaching sessions. We're going to give you all the tools, the spreadsheets, the calculators, the checklists you need to achieve all these goals. So if this is something you're interested in, get sign up today because there's only a few more spots open. I'd love to see you inside there. Now, today's podcast, I'm excited to bring on Kris Jones of Red Door Designs. Kris is an expert when it comes to the words, the copy that goes on your website, the copy that you can use in your social media posts, the copy you can use explain what you do to the customers. And today she's here to tell us how to lay that out and why the words matter and what the benefits are of telling a good story. So you do not want to miss today's podcast, but a This podcast is brought to you by Busy, busy, busy, busy is so simple to use, and it's the most reliable GPS time tracking app on the market. And the best part is it was built for land keepers. Busy Busy's founder created busy, busy because he owns multiple construction companies and needed to understand better which project were making him money and which projects were killing them. Payroll is the highest variable cost in the project, so you better be tracking it. Busy, busy does this better than anyone else. So download Busy, busy Day, and don't forget to mention the Million Dollar L We want to take a quick second to tell you about our friends over at Cycle CPA. I can't even express to you how important it is to have a good accountant on your side, you know, want accurate bookkeeping and financial statements every month. Instead, you're often left with limited time to focus on the accounting side of your business and no reports to show for it at cycle CPA. The Landscaping accountants, they not only handle the bookkeeping, but also provide landscape industry benchmarking, job costing, financials by service line advisory meetings and much more. Cycle. CPA has a team of landscaping accountants available to provide anything from bookkeeping to CFO services. Visit cycle cpa.com and for $100 off, mention the Million Dollar Welcome back to the Millionaire Airlines Gear podcast. Today I'm so excited to bring on this guest. Today we have Kris Jones. Now Kris Jones is a StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Designs. She's been mentored by author of building a StoryBrand book. Actually, I have the book somewhere up here. Yes, it's an amazing book. It's written by Donald Miller. Now Donald Miller and her have been working together and they have over 20 years of experience with clients such as Nike and Adidas under their belt, and she's extremely passionate about helping small business owners and service providers get website copy and words that sell so you can multiply your revenue and focus on what you do best. Now, Kris believes that writing copy for your own business doesn't have to feel like torture. In fact, once you learn how to tell your compelling story, it can actually be fast, easy, and fun. So welcome Kris, Oh, thank you so much for having me, Scott. I'm happy to So Kris, do you mind just giving a little background of Absolutely. Yeah. So I am the founder of Red Door Designs. We are a marketing firm in Portland, Oregon, and I started this firm about 20 years ago and we started out really focusing on design, website design and did that for many, many years. But over time, what I started to realize is that design can only get you so far in your business. It used to be at the kind of early days of the web, you could have a beautiful website and your business would really thrive with any website that you had. And then things started to get a little bit more competitive online. People started putting more money into website design and so I kept kind of on that track, but after some time I realized that a beautiful design would only get used so far. You really needed compelling copy and really strategic words and storytelling on your website to connect with your potential customers. And once I started really focusing on the words and the storytelling that happened on my client's websites, I saw their businesses just start multiplying in revenue and it was so powerful that I just never looked back. And so I've evolved a lot of the work that I do is just really all about how to create beautiful storytelling on your website in a way that really truly connects with your ideal clients. And that's kind of now Nice. So just to get clarification, for those people that aren't familiar with the word copy or copywriting, Kris, do you mind elaborating on that a little bit more and telling people what copy is? Yeah, there can be some confusion with like, okay, I'm going to copyright my logo or copyright this book. That's different copywriting for your website. All it means is what are the words on your website? What are you communicating on your website with the words that are on there? And you would not believe how powerful it is. One example of this is really if any of you guys have bought anything on Amazon, right? You go to the product and you're like, okay, I think I need this product. But you don't actually buy until you read the words that people have shared about that. You read the reviews, you hear what people say about this product, and that's what pushes I think this is so important because like you said, everybody does their research. So whether you offer lawn maintenance service or landscaping service, customers are going to be doing the research on you, and it's important to have those appropriate words on your website. I've seen so many landscapers that will go hire people to create this amazing looking website. It looks great, fantastic, but like you said earlier, some of the words, they don't really make sense. I've seen this especially of some offshore companies that make the websites and we're just, I mean they go together, but they just don't describe your business. They don't describe what you do and your story. So that's what I love about having you on Kris today to kind of Yes, and to echo your point, it's really important when you are your own business. So as a landscaper, you are the business, you're the face of the business. Even if you have a team, you are the face of the business. So it's really important that your website copy feel really aligned with who you are. So you can be excited when someone asks to get your website address. You can feel proud to share that with them because it's really true to Now, earlier you mentioned telling a story. Can you share why it's important to be able to tell a good story on your website, especially So there's a lot of confusion around storytelling, right? Because we grew up listening to stories and having our parents read books to us, and there is a fundamental formula for how stories are written. But the beautiful thing about this is that writing for your website doesn't really mean telling your life story or talking all about you. It's really more about how do you craft a strategic story that invites your customers into a narrative with you? And really what it's about is writing the words on your website in a way that connects to your ideal customer and builds trust because people will not work or hire you if they don't trust you. And the quickest, most efficient way to build that trust and build that connection is through storytelling on your So how would you go about telling a good story on your Well, so let me break down kind of the components of every story. So every single story or every movie you've ever watched begins with a hero that has a problem they can't solve. And the key here is that your customers are the hero of your story. So your customers have a problem that they can't solve, and then that hero meets a guide that has a solution to the problem, and you as the landscaper are the guide and you have the solution. You've been there, done that you know how to solve this problem that they have, and then as a guide, you help them navigate to experience success. So let's say the hero has a problem. They have a yard that is just not thriving, it's not pleasing to the eye, they're frustrated with it. Maybe they're embarrassed that their neighbors are seeing their yard in the state that it is. So this is a problem that they have that they don't know how to solve. So then they search for a guide that has the solution. So they're going to hopefully come across you and your business and realize that, oh my gosh, you have authority in this space. You know how to solve this problem, and then you are going to help guide them to overcome this problem so they can experience success and success in this story is that they are proud of their yard. They are excited to throw their 4th of July party, they utilize their exterior space in a way that is like an extension of their home, all the wonderful benefits that happen when someone is really proud of their landscaping. So that is really in its most simple form, how to tell a story. A hero has a problem they can't solve, they meet a guide with a solution that's And I think that's an amazing framework and outline of how to do things. Now you mentioned for length landscapers, we'll say they create these beautiful outdoor living areas with the outdoor kitchen and stuff. Are you kind of describing those types of things so the customer can envision what it's going to be like and having their family and friends? Is that kind of the That is a very important part of the story. It's one ingredient of this story. As a guide, you really want to show your leads and your potential customers what success looks like. You want to show them what's possible for them if they work with you. So yeah, we can do that through imagery and through words, just reminding them, yeah, this is totally possible. We can help you get here to this wonderful experience of success. So let me ask you, what do you think is the number one mistake most landscape business owners make when it comes to the words and copy I think that the biggest mistake is, well, there are two. Number one is that you outsource the copy to somebody who doesn't really quite know about how to tell a good story and strategy. So you forget to put any importance or energy into the copy on your website. So I think the biggest one is just that your website doesn't tell a story at all. And then the second one is that this is very common. People unknowingly paint themselves as the hero of their own story. And what happens when you do that is that there's really only room for one hero of a story. So when somebody lands on your website, you've kind of kicked them out of the story from the get-go. So they leave the website and go find somebody else. A lot of this happens subconsciously. You go to a website and you feel like a connection with this company or this person, or you feel compelled to take action and call them, or the opposite happens. You go to a website and you're like, eh, I don't know what it is. I just don't feel compelled to work with this person. But there's strategy behind that. And so all of that can happen when you really intentionally tell a story on your website. The viewers are going to arrive and they're not going to know why, but they're going to be compelled to schedule a call with you and work with you. And that's why that's the power of story. We are just wired as humans. We are wired for a story because we've been sitting around that fireside from the beginning of time. And so that's why we can go to a movie theater and as busy as we are and as long as our to-do lists are, we walk into that movie theater and we don't think about anything else for 90 minutes. Nothing has the power to capture our attention and connect with our I think it's so important how you mentioned how some websites will have the owner's story or about me. Is that something that's still important to have talking about themselves or their company or should that just be on a separate about me page or something like that? Yeah, it is. I mean, I think the difference in the way that I approach storytelling is that I will talk about you or we will talk about you. You're still in the story. You're still a character in the story. You're the guide, you're not the heroes. So we talk about you as it relates to your customers. We talk about you, we talk about the things about you that your customers actually care about. So they don't care about that your grandfather founded this business in 1940 and this and that. They care that you have empathy and you understand their problem. They care that you have the authority to solve it and the experience to solve it, and they care that you are trustworthy. And so we write about you around all those types of things. So is there a strong connection between telling a good Absolutely, a hundred percent. So as I mentioned before, people do not buy from people they don't trust and people buy from people they feel a connection with, and those are the things that storytelling does. So what happens for my clients is that people go to their website and they get so excited to work with the provider that they schedule a call and the sales calls are really short. They're fairly effortless because people are already queued up and ready and excited to work with you. The other thing that happens when there's trust built and connection built and authority built, people are just more willing to pay more because they know you're going to solve their problem and they have complete and total faith in you. The other thing that happens is that people start to just love working with you because you're, you're starting this relationship based on trust and connection, and so they refer you to all their friends. So it's just this kind of snowball effect that happens. But I think the biggest thing is it allows you to charge more and it allows you to basically not have to sell so much for your business because your website is really acting as a 24 7 sales employee for you. So you get to focus on design and all the fun parts of the business that you love and not the selling part, Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Now, once you create this story, can you use this story? I mean obviously you want to use it on our website, but can you use this in your social media posts, your lives and everything else and your emails? Is this something that you can kind of put everywhere? Yeah, Scott, I'm so glad you asked that question because that is the kind of hidden benefit of this work. We work together to craft the copy and the words on your website, and then essentially that becomes your brand copy bible and you've got this document anytime you ever need to create copy or give people information about your business, you go to that document, you copy and paste what we've already written and you send it to them. So it's perfect for your social media profiles. It's perfect for Instagram posts. It's a great thing to put in your email signature, the words that we craft. You'll want to copy and paste short snippets of that and put that on your business card. Really, the beauty about crafting your own story is that you never have to do it again. It just is kind of like that workhorse of your business that keeps working for you. And the more you repeat that same message, the more people remember you as that person. You're the person that solves this problem important for in your sales process too. We tell our clients and what we did in our business, when a customer comes to your website and fills out a form or calls you on the phone, we would instantly send them an email that introduces them to us and tells a little bit of our story. And I think that's something we're having, something like what you said, having that story and sending it to them if they haven't had a chance to look at your website, they're getting Absolutely copy and paste, just copy and paste. It's your Now, is there anything that you see landscapers that one thing they just need to do right away on their website? So if they have all these different services and should they have a story for every one of the services, or is this something like they should have one story on their Your homepage is your most powerful page. So if you're going to do anything, I would say put energy into your homepage. That's really the introduction. That's the first impression that you're going to make for your clients. So focus on your homepage, get your story and clear on your homepage, and that will really do the heavy lifting for you. Oftentimes, I mean, I do integrate some of the services on your own homepage depending on how many you have, but really by the time they've scrolled down to the bottom of your homepage, they're ready to schedule a call with you and excited to work with you. So it's not like you can't have other pages on your website. You can, but your homepage will do that heavy lifting for you and it will convert those Now, I know you are into the StoryBrand and they have a framework in there. Do you mind elaborating a little bit about that framework? I think it's important for landscapers to understand how things should be laid Yeah, yeah. I mean really the framework and it's most simplest form is a hero has a problem that they want to solve, and that hero, we delve a little bit deeper into those problems. So there are layers of problems that people have. They have an external problem, which is like, my yard is ugly. We just keep it simple. And then there's an internal problem there that is more like they're embarrassed. They feel kind of down whenever they look out their window because they're not happy. There's internal problems that come with the external problems. So another example that's not related to this industry might be like, okay, there's not enough money in my bank account. That's the external problem. The internal problem is it's causing me anxiety because I'm not sure I can pay my mortgage. So you can see the difference People make decisions based on their internal problem. So we really want to hone in on what is that internal problem that your customer is facing. They think that they make decisions based on their external problem. They really make decisions based on the internal problem. And so that's a lot of the work that we're going to do together is really articulating that. And what's cool, what's magical about that is that when you clearly articulate your customer's problem, they immediately think you're the best one to solve it. So it's a really important part of the story. And then after that problem, we introduce you as the guide. So you're the business owner, you are the guide, and you want to make sure they know that you have a plan. What's your plan? What's your process? So what's unique about you in the way that you work? How You call, you come up with an estimate, you map out three different designs, they choose the winning design and then you implement it. People don't want to jump off a cliff. They want to know that there are just three simple steps in order to achieve their ultimate end goal. And then we really identify what that success looks like, not only what it looks like, what does it feel like for them? So if they're embarrassed about their yard, what does it feel like for them to be proud of their yard? What does it feel like for them to really utilize this outdoor space in a way that creates deeper connections with their family members and their neighbors? And then we also know story is complete without communicating what's at stake if they don't do anything. So the reason that we stay in a movie for 90 minutes is because we aren't sure if that hero's going to find success or completely fail. And so if there's nothing at stake in this story, then the story's really boring actually, and we don't stick with it. In this case, it might be like what's at stake if you do nothing or you let your yard stay stagnant another year? What's at stake for you around that? Lots of things. There's multiple ingredients that we weave into your homepage in order to pull people in and make people want to engage and keep reading more and more and more until they're called to action, Yeah, that's so important and those are some great points there. I encourage you, all the landscapers out there that are listening, that your words do matter on your website. You really need to take a deep dive into them. I know many of us will put that off on our web developer, let them put it all in there, but it doesn't really give you your story. It doesn't lead the customer to want to purchase from you. And I think a lot of it is because we don't want to do it ourselves as landscapers. We're not good with words, we're good at our skills. So having somebody like Kris here that can help guide you through that is definitely going to help you. It's going to make you think of things that you never perhaps thought of before with this question. So when people work with you, Kris, do you have them go through some kind, I shouldn't say onboarding, but some kind of questionnaires or something to get that Yeah. Yes. I have a very streamlined process because I've been at this so many years. I know how to pull out of you the best nuggets of information of how are we going to tell your story in a way that's really unique and helps you stand out from all the other landscapers out there. And so the whole process takes two and a half hours flat, and then you can cross it off your list forevermore. It's done, and it all begins with some video questions that I have you answer. So questions in a video that I ask you, you answer those and then this is a done for you process. So then I take those answers and I write your copy for you. That way you don't have to do it yourself. What happens for all business owners is we are just so close to our own business that we are literally inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside of the bottle. And so it's really important to partner with somebody who knows how to pull those questions out of you and knows how to craft your story. We're all too close to our own businesses to talk about it clearly. So I write your copy for you and then we get on together, we get on a 90 minute call and collaborate, refine, fine tune, and just make sure that we hit it out of the park with your copy so you can really confidently show up online and start growing your business and having a website that really does sell for you so you Yeah, I think that's so important. One of my favorite quotes from Donald Miller is if you confuse, you lose. And I think it's so important where I see many landscapers will have, or somebody else has written the website and there's so much information on there, I don't even know where to go. I don't even know where to put my eyes to begin to read. Or having someone like you take that information, content it down and make it fit appropriately and tell that story is so important. Is that something you see where landscapers or anybody that use you that has so much information or even Everyone's kind of overwhelmed these days. There's so much information coming at us from every angle, and so people actually don't read websites anymore. They literally do read them. If you have a large paragraph of copy or text on your website, it will not get read. People will skimm over it. So it's really essential to distill down just the important parts of your story in a way that can be visually scanned how people engage with your website. They scan them, and not only that, they scan them while they're on a mobile phone. So it's even more important to implement that less is more approach to your website because otherwise none of the information actually gets absorbed. Well, one of the things you mentioned there is people scan things a certain way, and that's one of the things I know he talks about Donna Miller talks about is the order way people actually read their websites. I think it was, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was almost like a Z pattern type of thing that people read in certain ways. Yes, that's correct. So when they land on your website, typically there'll be a logo in the upper left hand corner and then they scan the website horizontally. So the first and most important part of your website is that upper right hand corner of your website. And this is another very common mistake that basically the upper right hand corner of your website is empty or just something blah, it's a shopping cart or it's a contact text, and that is truly the most valuable real estate on your entire site. So you really want that to be a very clear call to action that it isn't just powerful words, but that it's also visually going to pop off the page. So I'd recommend a bright color button that has a very clear call to action telling them what you want them to do next. So for landscapers, I imagine it would be schedule a call or call me now. And you want that to be in the upper right-hand corner. That's great. It's been some time since I read the book. I just remember those key things that always stuck with me from his work. Is that something too that you help your customers with as far as the layout and Yeah, so step one is the words, and then part of the wireframe that we create for you is like a blueprint for your website. So it shows you exactly where the words are and how the words will flow, the hierarchy of types. So what's going to be a headline versus what's going to be smaller body copy, where's the image going to go, where are icons going to go? So it's kind of like if you were building a house, you would hire an architect to drop blueprints before the builder began work. And this is really a blueprint for your website to map out where everything is going to go. We want to make sure everything is working well in black and white before we move into the So Kris, do you mind sharing where people can learn a bit more about you and some of the things that you have to offer? Absolutely. So to work with me directly and to get your website copy written in 2.5 hours flat, go to red door designs.com/copy. That's red d designs dss.com/copy, and you can sign up there to work with me one-on-one if you're interested in DIYing your copy for now. If that's where you're at in your business, it's totally fine. You can take my workshop that will help you write compelling copy for your website in five minutes flat, and you can access that@claritywithKris.com. And it's Kris with a K. So clarity Thank you. I think that's awesome. So no matter where you're at in your business, you can reach out to her and work out with her personally or you can do it yourself. So definitely take advantage of it and really take a good look at your website and really analyze it and look at it. I know many of us, especially if you're starting off, some of you don't have a website or you're just doing some basic website, but the words matter more than what you ever think, whether you're using a Google website or you're just having somebody else make it. So it's important to really have the proper words on there. Now, Kris, now if somebody works with you, if they have a web developer already, can they use those words and just send 'em over to a Absolutely. About half of my clients take the words that we create together and give them to their developer, and the developer knows exactly what to put, where to add images. It's a very, very comprehensive blueprint for your website, so it's very easy to implement or hand it over to somebody else. My team and I also offer that service, so if you just want us to take the words and implement them on your existing site, we can do that for you So just curious, how much time does it take if somebody would work with you, how much time does it typically take to kind of go through So the entire process happens in 2.5 hours flat. The initial intake where I'm asking you questions and you're answering them for me on a Google Doc takes about 45 minutes to an hour, and then you and I get on a collaboration call for 90 minutes. And so the whole process is two and a half hours flat. Now on my end, I take your answers and I write your website copy before we get on that collaboration call. So we're really at that stage refining and fine tuning the copy that I've already written. Nice. So is there anything that you'd like to leave the listeners with? If they have to go back and take a look at their website, is there anything you'd like to tell them to do? There's something they suggest Yeah, I would say look at your website. If it feels like there's too much copy on your website, I would encourage you to cut down the copy to about half. And I would also encourage you to start telling a story on your website. And it doesn't have to take a long time, it doesn't have to be a headache. It can happen really quickly and really easily the information is there in you just need somebody to kind of extract it from you and craft your Nice. Well Kris, I appreciate you being on the show. Would Alright, awesome. So what is one thing you'd be really Wow, that's a really good question. I would really love the experience to go to all, if not all, most of the national parks. That was something I never really did growing up. And as I get older I just so appreciate nature and the extraordinary nature that we have right here in the us. So yeah, I would do a national park tour in a motor home. I love it before the show, that's one of the things that we do. And as our families, we love to travel and it's an amazing, just see the nature and the beauty that's out there and just to get to experience. So I Alright. What is one thing that people buy that you think Oh gosh. Honestly, it's funny. I did start out in the industry, like I said, 20 years ago, just gung-ho about design. And I am such a firm believer of design. I think design has such a powerful way to affect how people feel and unconsciously really transform things. So I'm a big believer in design, but I think that now I don't like to see people pouring a lot of money into website design because there are so many tools now that allow you to do it kind of in a beautiful way. Like Squarespace for example, or Wix. There's a lot of website tools that really kind of do the heavy lifting of the design for you. So it pains me when people spend thousands of dollars on website design when I know that really they can get that for a more affordable price, and I'd rather they put that energy into their storytelling. Nice. Nice. Okay, last one. What is something that you Ooh. Pillows comfortable. Pillows. Comfortable bedding, good sheets, good mattress topper. Yeah, I am all about feeling comfortable when you crawl into bed at the end of the day and I think it's worth putting I would agree with that. It's not a good thing if you have a bad pillow or a pillow doesn't last very long. So I agree with that. Yeah, I agree with that. Alright Kris, well again, thank you for being on the show. How The best way to connect with me is to go to red door designs.com and check out what I offer on my website. I would love to work with you. There is an opportunity on the site to schedule a call with me, so you can do that. Or you can also go to clarity with Kris.com and go through that DIY process. If you go through the DIY process, you also have an opportunity to schedule a call with me. So for free. I love to help clients find clarity around this because it's such a frustrating, it can feel like a frustrating and daunting part of your business, and I love to step in and help sprinkle clarity It. Again, Kris, thank you very much for being on the show. I do have one quick question though. Something just popped in my head. Sure. Why did you go with Door Designs? What's behind the scenes there? Well, my favorite color is red, so I started there and then I started doing some research and discovered that the red door is very representative of hospitality and prosperity. And so that's really how I want my clients to feel like the experience with me is very high touch and I wanted people to feel very welcomed, welcome into my world when they work with me. And then of course, prosperity is a beautiful thing for all humans. So I like to Awesome. Well thank you for sharing. I was just kind of curious. I was like, wonder what the reasoning was. So. Alright, Kris, well again, thank you very much and I look forward to working with you a little bit Me too. Thank you so much, Scott. It was a pleasure. Hey everyone, just want to thank you again for joining us today. If you enjoyed today's podcast, we do ask you for one quick favor. Could you please head over iTunes and leave us a review, a five star review, easy, even better, but it helps us get our rankings up and help us spread our *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/art-online-business ### Title: How to Write Website Copy That Sells In 2.5 Hours Flat, with Rick Mulready and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4970210 ### Content: ## How to Write Website Copy That Sells in 2.5 Hours Flat ## The Art of Online Business Podcast, with Rick Mulready and Kris Jones How to Write Website Copy That Sells In 2.5 Hours Flat, with Rick Mulready and Kris Jones **Do you ever nod your head in agreement when it comes to StoryBrand principles but find yourself struggling when you attempt to apply them to your own business?** In my recent conversation with Rick Mulready, we discussed simple ways to apply StoryBrand TODAY in order to increase revenue immediately. **Here's what you'll uncover and why it matters to you:** ?Learn how to articulate your audience's problems and position yourself as the solution. ? How storytelling can revitalize your confidence and resonate with your target audience. ? Three ways to make your website convert like crazy. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. What's up my friends? It's Rick Mulready here, and for most of 2023, most of last year, I told you about this conversational AI coaching chatbot that I was creating called Pick Rick's Brain. Well, over the last several months, I've had a group of Alpha users and more recently a group of founding members using pick R'S Brain. And with the incredible feedback that I've been getting about how scary good it is and how helpful it is, it's finally ready for you to start using pick R'S brain coaching. AI is a custom conversational, that's really key. It's a key differentiator about what this is and what we've created a custom conversational AI chatbot that's designed to give you personalized coaching, mentorship, and guidance from me about your online business based on my decades worth of knowledge and experience. And you can get access to this coaching 24 7 as one user, put it of pick Rick's brain I've had it. Help me figure out my ads budget, build my launch plan, sort out my two offers, come up with a title for my course and my live launch event, work out the content structure for my live launch, fix my shiny object syndrome, and then redo the copy for my website focusing around my one-on-one Coaching. Wow. So I want you to get access to this Piri Spraying Coaching AI is a super inexpensive monthly membership. So if you ever wanted to get coaching from me and cost has been prohibitive, this is really accessible and that's very intentional. So if you want to start getting coaching from me, mentorship from me through pick Ricks brain coaching ai, just go to rick I started in this industry 20 years ago as a designer, and so I just was like, everything is design. If you have a great design, you are, you're golden. And it was, design is so powerful and it's a great way, you can tell visual stories beautifully as well. But what I eventually learned was that good design can only get used so far. You have to start with the copy, then bring that copy to life with really beautiful design and images. So I'm a big fan of Copy first, so much so that I've kind of shifted my focus solely on the copy part of it because that's what I'm finding is getting the most results for What's up, my friends? Welcome to today's episode of The Art of Online Business podcast. Rick Mulready here, and joining me on today's show is Kris Jones. Kris is the founder of Red Door Designs and creator of the copy that sells in two and a half hours flat system. And that's right, we're talking about copywriting today because this is a topic I think we can all use help with. I'm raising my hand right now saying that, and I talk about it here on today's podcast that I've never felt like I've been very good at writing copy, certainly better than I used to be, but it's never been a strong suit for me. And so I was introduced to Kris by our mutual friend Neil Williams, who is one of my accelerator coaches. And you've heard Neil on the podcast here before. And so she's like, you got to have Kris on the podcast because she's brilliant with writing copy in such a way that it doesn't have to take us a ton And so she is a StoryBrand guide copywriter. She is been mentored by Donald Miller, who's the author of Building a StoryBrand. And she has worked for the likes of some high profile clients like Nike, Jeff Bezos, but she really likes working with us small business owners, and she has helped her clients achieve results like increasing revenue by 300%, helping people scale from 30 K months to 300 K months, charging six times more for the same service that somebody was charging. And Kris really believes that story is the most effective way to grow your business. So I asked her to come onto the podcast here and share her framework, her system for how to write better copy in a shorter amount of time that gets people to take the action that you want them to take, not in a manipulative kind of way, not referring to that at all. We're talking about writing great copy that people can connect with and say, yeah, I want that solution from you. And so before we dive in with Kris, if you'd like my coaching, if you'd like me to help you grow and scale your business in terms of hey, ethical marketing, growing your team, becoming the leader slash CEO of your business, creating systems and processes in your business so that you can work a whole lot less on all about helping you grow and scale your business while cutting down drastically the number of hours that you are working on helping you find the leverage points in your business. If you'd like my help, you're an established online course creator, membership creator or coach, go over to rick mulready.com/accelerator or you can just shoot me an email rick@rickmulready.com and we can start talking there. So without further ado, let's go hang out with Kris Jones. Kris, welcome to the Absolutely. So I have to admit, when I first heard about your promise copy in two and a half hours, I was like, no chance. This is not something that is possible and this is what you do. Your whole thing is this concept of no, no, no, it's completely possible to write amazing copy that it can increase conversions and connect with people, et cetera, just a matter of hours. Yes, I want to start right there. How is this actually possible? Well, I've been in the industry a long time. That helps. And so I've done lots of different ways of solving this problem, but this is really the most streamlined and effective way to do it. And the beauty is everybody I work with is just busy. They're overwhelmed. They have a million things on their to-do list and updating their website copy or creating new website copy is always on there, and it always goes to the bottom of the list. And I mean, month after month, you've probably been there too. Oh yeah. And so really what happened was I would be doing these larger website projects and I would rely on my clients to create their copy and give it to me. And then that just became really quickly clear that that wasn't working. The deadlines kept shifting back, and my clients were struggling. They weren't sure what to write about. So I made it my mission to figure out and crack the code on how to create really compelling copy story-driven copy, high converting copy in a way that felt effortless for my clients and really, really fun for me too. And so ultimately there have been multiple iterations, but where we are now with it is just really dialed in. And what happens is I've created these multiple videos. They're very short, they're like a five minute speech, and they give you a little bit of context around why I need what I need. And then I ask you a question point blank, and it's a very simple question and you answer it, and then you move on to the next video. So through that process, it takes about 45 minutes, probably an hour tops through that process, I am really extracting out of you the golden and nuggets of information that are within you because you're the expert of your, you're the expert, your clients better than anybody else. So I pull all the good stuff out of you, and then I take that information and I craft a really beautiful story-driven wire frame, and that's really fun for me. And then we get on a call, we get on a 90 minute call together where it's a very collaborative process and we go through every section on your wire frame. And a wire frame is essentially like a blueprint for your website. It's all the words for your website in black and white, but it includes the hierarchy of type, the overall flow. It's like it's a very comprehensive document. And so we go through each section first, I walk them through the strategy behind every single word that's on the page, and then we go through and we just collaborate together. Does this feel like your voice? And through the questions that I've originally asked you, I'm able to capture your voice. I can tell by the way you're talking in your answers. So, It's really hard to do. I mean, it's really kind of impossible to do when you hire a copywriter to go away and write for you in a silo. I was talking to somebody earlier today who had paid kind of a ridiculous amount of money to hire a copywriter, and then it just was off the mark. And then they spent days and weeks revising feedback, revising feedback, and ultimately they ended up with copy that this woman essentially wrote herself. And so I've heard that story so many times, and it's painful because you've spent the money, because you don't have the time to do it yourself, and then you end up actually doing both. You do it yourself, you spend a bunch of time on it and you're out the money. So that's why I think really the key is that collaborative piece. I think that that 90 minutes of collaboration where you really understand why things need to be exactly what's where and why, and then we can really get into the nitty-gritty about the words and the voice. And so by the end of that 90 minutes, everybody is just so excited, feeling so good, they're crossing it off their list finally, and everyone's happy. It's great. So when we say, when you're saying website copy, are we talking homepage, sales page about page? None of those, all the above. What are About? Essentially, you pick your page. So yeah, about half the people that I work with, I would say the majority of people I work with pick their homepage, but my homepage is so comprehensive that it includes all the other pages. Typically, I prefer a longer scrolling page versus having to navigate and bounce around from page to page on a website. So I like to anticipate what the reader's going to be asking and what information they're wanting as they're scrolling down the page. So you don't really need an about page because we integrate that into the homepage and you don't really need a services page because we integrate that into the homepage. You certainly can have that. And if you want to go deeper into your services, that's great. Or if you want to have a page that's just about you and your background and goes into that in a deeper way, of course you can add to that. But my goal and what tends to happen is that people don't need to go to any other pages because by the time they've scrolled through that homepage, they're ready to book a call with you. It's like a first coffee date. You've had that coffee date, and they're Kind of. Yeah, I mean, I love the idea of a one page website. I mean, fundamentally, you end up needing a couple more pages, but I think I like to call it a heavy lifting homepage because it does all the heavy lifting and it operates as this 24 7 sales employee for you while you're doing We'll get right back to the episode in a moment. What if we could eavesdrop on private conversations of some amazing experts in the online business space and in the process uncover revenue generating insights and tips and ideas from 'em when it comes to some of their most successful launches? What if you could ask them questions like, Hey, what flopped? What would you change next time and what would you absolutely do more of? Well, I want to invite you to sign up for a free audio event that my friend Brenna McGowan is doing, and it's called Behind the Launch. She's been a guest here on this podcast already twice now. So you're going to hear short, intimate conversations with industry experts who pull back the curtain on their last launch, their latest launch, and also, I'm super grateful to be part of this I'm going to share with you the Facebook ads strategy that recently has worked best as I run ads for my clients. A big goal of Brenna's with this free audio event is to dispel this idea, this notion that people who have a successful launches never ever struggle behind the scenes because we absolutely do. Or they don't have to test out new ideas and iterate over time or anything like that because we do have to do those things. And as a result of listening to these conversations, you're going to be pumped and super confident because you'll have a proven path to make more sales the next time you launch. You'll have a reality-based approach to launching that works without the pressure to send a bazillion emails and without the need to show up on Instagram like three times a day. Yes, please. I'm excited raising my hand Can't wait to hear some of the other industry experts speaking during this free event. And so again, this is a free audio event, but when you register by February 5th, you can get access to the private Facebook community and you get to listen to recaps and real-time interviews where you can ask questions and get more launch inspiration and strategy. So to sign up for this free audio event, just go to behind the launch, I put a link for it in the show notes, so behind the launch, all one word Co. That's alright. Let's So I would assume that you do this on your own website. Okay. So what is the URL? Because I want people to be able to, when they finish listening to this right now, they go check this out to see Yeah, definitely. So my website is red door designs.com with an S at the end and two d's in the middle. So red door designs.com. Okay, cool. Yeah, so you all go check out Kris's website. I'm going to do that after to check out to see the example of this because at the time we're recording this here in the middle of November, we are going through another website design redesign, and because my site right now, as nice as it looks, it is not easy to navigate. It is very confusing. Not only do I think that, but I've gotten that feedback a lot and it's not just like I want to make it so easy for people to find what they need to find. You mentioned too that you create this wireframe. I think that this is, and in creating sales pages over the years and not me, but working with people to help me do that, I always heard this, I always thought design first, then write the copy. But every copy I was like, no, no, no, no. You write the copy first and then it gets designed. So how much of the work that you're doing when you put together that wire frame, is that actually the design, the page that you're sort of Yeah, that's such a good question. I started in this industry 20 years ago as a designer, and so I just was like, everything is design. If you have a great design, you are golden. And it was, design is so powerful and it's a great way, you can tell visual stories beautifully as well. But what I eventually learned was that good design can only get used so far. You have to start with the copy, then bring that copy to life with really beautiful design and images. So I'm a big fan of copy first, so much so that I've kind of shifted my focus solely on the copy part of it because that's what I'm finding is getting the most results for my clients. So the wire frame is, I would say I would really liken it to a blueprint that an architect might create You wouldn't want to hire a home builder to build your house without architectural blueprints, and that's really what this is. It shows you the order of things. It's not the design I tell my clients, don't get caught up on the font that I've used. No, I intentionally don't include a bunch of color or anything because if your words aren't working then on your homepage or on your wireframe, they're never going to work on the design of your website. So we've got to really look at everything in black and white. I still think they're really beautiful, a design nerd. So really to me, it's important that it looks beautiful. And I show very clearly if you were to hand this over to your designer, they would know where to put an image, an image here that's roughly this size, and put the bullet points over to the right of that. And then here's where the headline goes, and here's where the body copy goes, here's where the button goes, and it should be a bright color. So if you were to hand it over to your designer, they would have a very, very easy time I mean, your framework if you will, is StoryBrand, which is Donald. So you've learned under Donald, and if I, so what is that? So we always hear stories sell, right? Yes. This is something that I've talked a lot about here on the show. I've had other people talk about stories and what I've shared from my perspective is I don't feel like I'm a very good storyteller and that I've had people literally this week, today's a Thursday, earlier this week, people tell me, tell more stories. We want to hear more stories on the podcast. And so that's something that I'm consciously wanting to do more of here on the show. How are you incorporating the stories into, say, a homepage for example, that is serving, as you mentioned before, about page, the services page, et cetera? How are we using stories in a page like that? It can be really confusing because we've grown up hearing stories. You read to your daughter once upon a time this happened and that happened. And the formula for those is the same formula for the storytelling when you're talking about your own business or your marketing. But there's a couple little mindset shifts or just little tips really, that once you know them, it changes the way you do it. So essentially every story that you've ever heard, and this is Donald Miller talks about this, and I am simplifying it even more than that, but every story you've ever heard or movie begins with a hero that has a problem they can't solve. And then maybe 20 minutes into the movie they meet a guide who has the solution and gives them a plan to solve their problem. Then ultimately that hero towards the end of the movie finds success. The beautiful thing is, as the business owner, this totally lets you off the hook because the hero is kind of the star of the story, and you're not the hero, you are the guide. Your customer is always the hero. So the story begins with a hero has who has a problem, and if your listeners take nothing else away from this, I would say write that down. Always begin your story with your hero's problem or your customer's problem. What are they struggling with? If you are telling a story about your own personal life, talk about a problem that you're going through and then talk about what you ended up doing. You meet a guide, and that guide might be a book you found or wisdom that your neighbor shared with you and made you helped you move along in that journey to solving the problem and then ultimately what you got as an end result from that. I remember in one of your other podcasts, you were telling this story about maybe a latte or you're making a coffee or My beloved, beloved, I ordered this yesterday at the coffee shop right down the street from me, and I know all the people that work there and they know my drink at this point. I walk up and so I start off the day with straight up Americano I don't do, and then later The veins. Yeah. Yeah. My wife accidentally ate, drank it last week or something. She's like, oh my God, it's so strong. And I was like, is it? So anyway, it is an oat milk latte with honey and cinnamon, and I like it super hot because otherwise I'll just guzzle it. And I was ordering it at, I was ordering it at the coffee shop yesterday morning and they were like, I think I know your drink in there. So they were kind of starting to do it, and then I said it out loud and I said it, and I was like, oh my God, that sounds the most high maintenance order ever. And they were like, no, it sounds delicious. But anyway, yeah, that's what I was talking about. struggle or a problem that you're dealing with, and then you'll navigate through. You're the hero of that story, but when you're in business, your customers or your clients are always the hero, and that lets everybody off the hook. You don't have to talk about yourself. You do a little bit. You talk about yourself as it relates to your customer and the things that they care about, but ultimately they just want their problem solved and they want to find So can you give an example there, because I know that as I'm listening, and I've heard this before conceptually, I think it's easy to understand, but when I know that so many people, myself included have this, okay, when if I'm ready to write copy, it's like this block, like, okay, I know I need to write, start off with the hero, the problem, the hero is my audience, and then go through that. Can you give sort of off the top of your head an Oh, for sure, for sure. Yeah. So there's a retirement planner that I work with and his story, now, this is the shortest story ever written, but you'll hear that it contains all the components of a compelling story. So he would say or write on his website or on social media, many people over 50 worry that their money won't last them through retirement. That's their hero problem. And then he would introduce himself as a guide with a solution, and that would be my proven method, takes the guesswork out of retirement planning. And then he would, as the guide, he would remind the hero of what's possible, what kind of success that they can achieve so they can spend with confidence knowing they'll thrive. So let me read that all together. And so you can hear the hero with the problem, the guide with the solution, and then the hero finds success. So many people over 50 worry that their money won't last them through retirement. My proven method takes the guesswork out of retirement planning so they can spend with confidence knowing they'll thrive. There's a million ways to use this formula. That's one that's kind of like his company tagline, that he can copy and paste that into his email signature, into his LinkedIn profile, into all his social media profiles on his website. But you really take the storytelling formula and you can use it. You can have kind of your overarching company tagline story, but lots of people will do this on their services page. So they'll say, okay, I'm doing a workshop on this that solves this problem. And then they'll create their own story around that as the description, and people are like, whoa, tell me more. I'm one in on that. I want that problem solved and this person knows What about if the problem, so how do I ask this question? If you are the audience, you were the audience that you solved the problem for which you then went and found other people that had the same problem, could you be the hero in the first part? And then I'm way overcomplicating this, I realize, but where my brain goes to is, so data, for example, this is something that I have this conversation with every single member of our accelerator is like, you've got to know your numbers. And most people don't. People can't answer, oh, I got these sales came from over here and I can attribute these sales here, or This is my profit margin, what have you, right? But the first time this came up was for myself, I solved my own problem, which how I solve that is how I'm helping people now. Does that make sense? Completely. And that is the best kind of guide because you can show up with a level of empathy. You understand their struggle so much because you've been through it. And so no one's a better guide than somebody like you who's been through the journey and found success and come out the other side and now can show other people, Hey, come along with me, I'll show you how to do it too. That's the best kind of guide. But what you don't want to do is position yourself as the hero, because you're not the hero. You've already solved this problem and you know how to do it. You. Yeah, and when you position yourself as the hero, there's only room for one hero in every story. So you immediately kick any potential client into engaging with you. And the other thing I want to share is that we talk about telling stories and telling stories. You've got to use story, but really it's not about telling a story, it's about inviting your clients into a narrative with you. You're inviting them into a story with you where they play the character of the hero, and you play the character of the guide because the guide is the strongest character in the story. The hero's actually the weakest character. They have a problem they don't know how to solve, and we don't know if they're going to solve it or not. We hope they do, and they will if they work with you, hopefully. But that's what keeps us to the end of the movie. If the heroes solved their problem halfway through the movie, Right? How much of this framework consists of audience research, learning more about the audience, where they currently are because Yeah, I mean, it's critical to know your audience. It depends what type of research that you want to do. I mean, the type of research that I do about my audience is really just working day after day after day for many years with this particular audience. But you can also go onto Amazon and find a book that your audience is really attracted to, and then read the reviews and you can get lots of information and insight there as well about their struggle. That's really what you want to hone in on, is if you can articulate their problem, I should say it this way, the better you can articulate their problem, the more quickly they will automatically assume that It's also, it's kind of like when you said the financial planning or retirement planning example before that came up for me immediately was that's a hook for a video, for example, or an ad, get their attention and then go into solving the problem or establishing credibility, giving some teaching there and then having some sort of call to action. Yes. Yeah, every story, I mean, a hook can be lots of different things, but one type of hook could be starting with the problem, and if you start everything that you write with the problem that your customers are experiencing, they're going to be pulled in because our brains find them just 100% irresistible. We cannot help but be pulled in and find out is it going to get solved? How's it going to be solved? It's really psychology fundamentally. So there's some things that in your bio that I kind of want to dive into a little bit where you're talking about helping people scale from 30 K months to 300. So 10 X-ing their monthly revenue, also charging six times more for the exact same service. How are those things happening within Well, this framework is a very important part of an overall recipe for that. So this is not the one and only piece, but the client that was able to charge six times what he was prior to working with me, that was a branding overhaul. So we got him new photography, really professional photography, and we rebranded his logo, we updated his tagline, we recrafted his homepage and his entire website, it was kind of the full meal deal that he did, but the storytelling was the golden thread that wove throughout all those materials. So the words on his business card aligned with the words on his website, aligned with the words on his LinkedIn profile. And what I loved hearing from him the most was he went to a trade show shortly thereafter, and he goes, I actually walked differently. There was a confidence that he had when he knew he had the right words of what to say, and he knew very clearly the What are some things that we can do? Those of us listening right now, everybody listening right now, what are some things that we can do to ask ourselves? What kind of questions can we ask ourselves to try to get these types of things out of ourselves to maybe start this process for Well, I do have a freebie that does walk you through this process. So there's a five minute video and a Google worksheet that comes with it that literally will prompt you with each of these things. So don't feel like you have to write this down or remember it. It's there for you. But the first thing to do is to brain dump, have a document called my storytelling or whatever you want to call it, and then just brain dump all the problems that your customers share with you. And you want to do it in their words, not in your words. We really want to meet them where they are and not talk over their heads or anything like that. We just keep it conversational. When you have a call with a potential client, ask them, what are your biggest struggles? What's And write down the words that they tell you and just keep an ongoing brain dump document. And the more you have, if you have 10 or 20 problems that your customers face, that right there is a recipe for 10 or 20 social media posts. You can start with that problem and then talk about your solution. And you don't have to get into the nitty gritty about you want to tell them what you do, not how you do it. So for the Retirement planner was my proven method, takes the guesswork out of retirement planning simple. He doesn't get into all the detail. I just was like, I remove the guesswork. And so you want to really brain dump the problems. And then in the worksheet that you can download from me, there's an area there where you can brainstorm three different solutions or three different ways that you solve this problem. And then you really want to go heavy on success. So what is their life like going to be after they work with you? What is that top of the mountain peak point? What are they going to experience? What kind of freedom are they going to have? Or what kind of peace of mind are they going to have? Or if you're a chiropractor, are they going to be able to climb mountains and play with their grandkids or whatever it might be? But really, I continually encourage people to really think big when it comes to the success portion of it. And then you've got this brand bible there of problems, solutions, and success. And if you focus all your communications in this way, So let's just say we brain dump nine different, nine different things, and then we've got three different ways to solve each of those problems and then what it's like afterwards, success, what that could look like after and feelings and all that stuff. If we're writing a sales page, are we incorporating all of those things in there or are we taking the top Yeah, definitely the top things. So on a sales page, you want to weave things through the page. People need to hear things multiple times before they can commit it to memory. So there's nothing wrong with repeating the same notes over and over again. But yeah, pick the top five and narrow it down to that kind of streamline the communication for a sales page, I would do that. But if it's social media, you can just, the more the better. It So brain dump all the problems customers have in their And ways to get those words. We often overlook the obvious of get on a quick call with them, look at what they're talking about in, if you have a group, look at what words they're using, look at other Facebook groups. Look at like you mentioned Kris on Amazon reviews for books, and there's lots of different ways that we could look at what actual words that people are using. Then three different ways to solve the problem, and then what is their life? What can their life be like after the solution in terms of what's possible, feelings, et cetera. I would also assume that that's where we're using case studies of people that we've worked with that be right. Oh, for sure. I mean, yeah, as the guide, you want to show that you have empathy and authority, and part of that authority is showing that you've solved this problem for other people. So case studies would go under that piece of authority. I mean, there's more that goes into a sales page than just this, but this is really the golden thread that streams through your story, almost like you kind of think of it like a guitar player, someone who knows how to play guitar, knows how to strum a chord, and they push down the strings and it's a beautiful chord, and they repeat those notes throughout the song. Whereas if you don't know how to play the guitar and you strum a chord and it sounds like crap, you're not going to move toward that person playing guitar and want to hear more. So it's kind of like music in that way. It's kind When we're doing that because fascinated by this, because I think you can tell from my questions, I've always struggled with this. I do not consider myself a good copywriter, and it's something that I do work on. But just to be honest, from very, very early on in the business, I always hired copywriters to help me with it because knew that it wasn't a strong suit of mine, even though it was one of the first things that I learned. I kept hearing people say, this has been in business nine years now. So 10 years ago, people were saying, if you don't learn anything, learn how to write copy, then you can sell anything. But even with that, I still struggle with it all these years. I'm much better than I was. But if we're brain dumping all the problems, we've got the three different ways to solve the problem. This is what is possible afterwards, where are we? If we're taking this sort of framework, putting it into the hero framework like we're talking about, where are we using the Yeah, completely. So I'll kind of break down the different sections of the wire frame. I think that might be helpful. So the very first section, the header is where you've got about five seconds to just communicate what you do and how it's going to make their life better. So you could easily pull that from the story that we just told about the retirement planner. So at the beginning of the page, it might be, I'm a retirement. Let me think about this. It's hard to do on the fly. I take the guesswork out of retirement planning, and that mean that's the problem that they solve. So that might be in the upper header and they're a retirement planner. They're going to take the guesswork out of it. Then after that, you want to follow, and you can go to my website for a good example of this, because I follow this, I believe it, and it So then you want to start the story right there with a problem. So I will often say, are you struggling with, and then three to five bullets of what they're struggling with. Again, there's so much psychology that happens just in articulating the problem. Your potential client feels like they're seen, they feel like they're heard. They feel like, oh, you get me. If you get me, you get this problem. You're the best one to solve it. And they're pulled in because they can't not be just how our brains are wired. So they're like, okay. And then the next section is quickly. We're always, as humans, we're always scanning the environment. What's in this for me? How am I going to benefit from this? So I follow that section with three really beautiful important benefits that they're going to experience after we're done working together. A lot of people put features here, which again, that would put me as You don't want to put features there. You want to say, this is what you are going to experience after you work with me as a result of working with me. And so you really want to make that clear. And then you move into, it's kind of like you're earning their trust and you're earning a connection with them, and you're letting them know, this is going to be worth your time. I get your problem and I can help you reach really wonderful results. And then you've earned the right to step in and share a little bit more about yourself as the guide. And so at that point, you step in with empathy and authority and tell them that this is how I solve the problem. This is what I know about you, and this is why I've spent many years figuring out how to solve Here's how I do it. So every guide gives their hero a plan, and this is what you need to do next. So you have a clear call to action, but you really want to break down a three step plan. That's critical, very important part like, well, if you're going to guide me and you can solve this problem, then what do you want me to do next? And so you want to break it down, even if what you do might take 20 steps, you just want to really simplify it, already overwhelmed when they get to the website. I mean, most people are just inundated with information and overwhelmed. So what to do next? Schedule a call. We'll work together and create a custom plan or whatever your way of solving that problem is. And then step three is typically the third part of that step. It might be something wonderful that they're going to experience. So as you were talking about that, I'm looking at your site, just the homepage here. So just to reiterate, Kris's or else it's red door design.com. And what I notice about this, not only does it model what you just described, but I actually look at this and I think that it doesn't have a lot of copy, but you're telling the story of everything that you just said through. I think it's very, very clear, and it's not a lot of words. I think that you're conveying everything. And I like clean websites, very easy to follow, thus why we're redesigning my site. But what I mean, I see you can focus on what you do best and I'll make you look good doing it. And then you've got three paragraphs here. I feel like this is the most text in one section except for here are three ways to work with me like you just described. And so this is appealing to me because it's the simplicity of it, and I'm always talking about simplicity Yes. And it's the way people are digesting information now on mobile phones and just our attention spans. If you can't do the heavy lifting of simplifying and streamlining your communication with your client, you're not really earning their trust. Or they'll say, oh, I'll come back to this when I have more brain energy to concentrate on reading all this copy, and then they'll never come back. So the gift that I can give to you and your audience is that you don't have to be good at long format copy. I don't like long format copy. I like puzzle piecing, beautiful story-driven copy together. So it really flows and tells the story, but it doesn't mean you have to sit listening right now just did a big exhale and it's like, oh, okay, this page Exactly. Yeah. And you'd be surprised what happens when you go through that process and make it easy for your people to understand what you do and how you can help them. It's like it's the gift that keeps on giving Kind of like the jelly of the On club from Kristmas vacation for all of the Kristmas vacation fans. I said that to my wife the other day, and she's like, what are you talking about? She's never seen that movie. Anyway, what is the URL Kris for where people can get this PDF download? So I have two ways to work with me. One is if you want to DIY, your own copy and you want to kind of dive deeper into what we've talked about today, go to clarity with Kris.com and it's a five minute video and worksheet, and you can create your own version of what we talked about today. If you are ready for website copy that does the selling for you, and you're done trying to DIY it, and you just want to check it off your list and be done with it in 2.5 hours flat, go to red door designs.com/copy. Okay, cool. And Kris is with a K, everybody, clarity with Kris.com, and I'll link all the links up over in the show notes for the episode here today. I'm fascinated, Kris. Like I said, I keep saying this stuff doesn't come easy to me, so I'm always like, I'm always trying to learn more about this, and I know 100% that a lot of the people that I work with in Accelerator, for example, this is something that's a struggle as well from a writing copy. So thank you for coming on and sharing your expertise. Is that the best place for people to go to connect with you or are there other places as well? Yeah, that is the best place that you can go, and actually I offer, if you do the Clarity with Kris download, I offer a free one-on-one 20 minute Clarity call so you can get my eyes on your copy and make sure it's done passionate audience and I've had many other guests do something like that, and they reach out to me, they're like, holy cow, your audience is amazing, so Be careful. No, I love the work and I find it just so much It. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you, Kris. I appreciate you. Hey, if you happen to know somebody, one of your colleagues or one of your friends who can benefit from today's episode here with Kris, I would super appreciate if you shared this episode with them. If you're an Apple podcast, just click the three little dots next to the name of the episode, and there's a share episode option right there. If you're listening on Spotify, there's a share button right there in the episode. Makes it super easy to share both the podcast and individual episodes with your friends. I almost said friends and family, your family probably doesn't want to listen to the podcast that you're listening to. And as always, if you've not yet left a rating and review for the show or on Apple Podcast, that is still very, very helpful and allows us to reach more people with what we're trying to help people with here on the show. Thank you in advance for doing that, and appreciate my friend. Until next time, We'll get back to the episode. The moment you're hearing me as the host of the Art of Online Business and probably thinking it's really expensive to work with Kujo because he's the host of the Art of online business. Actually, no, it's not. It's especially affordable. If your business is right for ads management, IE, you're already earning somewhere between 150 and $200,000 in annual gross revenue and you want to scale up your business, you should not be managing your own ads at that point because you as a CEO, your time would be better spent doing things that only you can do. You don't want a lack of a team or a lack of an ads manager to constrain your growth, mainly because with ads management experience, I'm saving you time. You don't have to figure out all the things, and you don't have to make all the mistakes that would happen if you managed your own ads. So there is a link in the podcast show notes below the art of online business.com/ads. Fill out an application to work with me on ads and have me also be your strategy partner as far as looking into your funnel, giving you tips and tricks and strategies about how to optimize your sales page and your lead magnet opt-in page so your business can do a better job of converting leads into sales. Again, that's in the show notes below. Let's get back to the episode. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/6-figure-coach-podcast ### Title: Mastering the Art of Sales Page Copy That Sells, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4970248 ### Content: ## Mastering the Art of Sales Page Copy That Sells ## The 6 Figure Coach Podcast, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones Mastering the Art of Sales Page Copy That Sells, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones **Ever felt frustrated when your sales page didn't perform as expected?**  In my recent enlightening conversation with Neill Williams, we dived deep into common stumbling blocks in sales page creation. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Don't let your sales page drown in words. Learn the art of concise and impactful messaging. ? Discover how to make your sales page resonate with your audience. ? The recipe for a compelling headline that drives leads to take action. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Hey, I am Neil Williams. I'm a mom, a wife, a master certified coach, podcaster, and entrepreneur who has ditched the idea that a four hour workweek is somehow required for a successful business. I spent years overworking, but then something big happened. I figured out how to take control of my schedule, and when I did, I got way more done and less time and made more money. After that. I grew a multiple six figure business working 10 hours a week. ALO was still in my corporate knee job. Since then, I've made it my mission to teach other coaches how to grow businesses. They love to six figures in just a few hours a week. If you are ready for full-time business success on a very part-time schedule, get ready to find out that success is easier and faster than you ever thought to be possible. Right here every week where I share the strategies, tools, and mindset that build a six-figure business that doesn't require a lot of time or a lot of selling. Welcome to the six-figure This episode of the six-figure Coach podcast. I have a special treat in store for you today. Kris Jones, StoryBrand copywriter and expert is back on the show, and we are talking all about sales pages. You'll hear in this interview how I believe the sales page for your coaching program is one of the most important assets inside of your marketing system or your sales funnel. And Kris gives us the most common mistakes that she sees folks make with their sales pages so you can avoid those. And we also get into a discussion about chat, GPT and how you can use that to make your copy even better. And a workshop that we are going to be delivering very soon on how to combine storytelling frameworks with chat GPT to have amazing high converting copy on your sales pages and in every other area of your business where you're writing words. Please enjoy this episode with Kris Jones. Hello, Kris. So excited to have you back on the podcast. Hello, Neil. I'm so happy to be here. Oh my goodness. Okay, so this is the second time that you've been on the show and I'm so honored to have you back because as entrepreneurs, as busy solopreneurs, one of the skills that I think really is foundational and pivotal to our business success for coaches selling out their programs, getting people into their worlds, attracting people, is our ability to write copy. Now, those of you who are listening, you might be like me. I didn't ever write copy before business. I didn't even really, I hadn't heard of copywriting, but it wasn't something that I was really immersed in. I had literally no skill in it whatsoever. And so I myself find it challenging to do, but it's something that you have really helped me with over the last year. And so I'm really excited to bring you on to talk with you today specifically about sales Page copy is what we're going to focus on today. So before we dive in, why don't you just tell everybody All the things. Okay. My name's Kris. I live in Portland, Oregon. I am the founder of a boutique marketing firm called Red Door Designs. I've been doing this work for over 20 years now and I love it. I think it is truly my purpose for being on this planet. I love being self-employed. I love it so much that I want it for everybody that wants it for themselves. And that's why I love the work that I do because when you have the right copy and you can communicate what you do, clearly people start to magnetically be attracted to you. It's incredibly powerful. So I've kind of done a lot of different things under the umbrella of marketing, a lot of experience with design, a lot of experience with websites and a lot of work with copywriting and storytelling. And I've found in all those areas really the copywriting piece, it has the ability to move the needle in the biggest way for your And at the same time, it's the hardest thing to do for yourself. So that's why I love helping my clients break through that barrier and break through that kind of paralyzed feeling that they have or just feeling stuck when it comes to their own company. Because believe me, I get it. I am not above this, right? It's always hard to write about ourselves, but when you have somebody that can help you hold your hand and give you that perspective, really powerful things happen in regards to your business growth, getting more Yeah, I love that. And I think I wanted to have a specific episode where we talked about just about sales page copy because it's such a specific asset inside the business in terms of your marketing and such an important piece, in my opinion, asset in your overall funnel. And your funnel is just a marketing system. So what I love about the sales page is in my mind, it's like the non-live version of a sales call. Basically that's what it is. So what I would love is for us to walk through what this good or high converting sales page copy look like. But before we get to that, I know you are a story brand copywriter, and so I know storytelling is one of the pivotal things that you teach and you help our students in a hundred K funnel and in our mastermind 10 k, 10 hours with this as well. But tell me a little bit about why telling a good story is so vitally important for an effective sales page. It is so critical that you tell a story on your sales page because nobody will buy from anybody that they don't trust and they don't feel connected to. Part of telling the story is really showing your potential client what's possible for them. What's the problem that you solve and what's their life going to look like after you solve this problem? And all of that is really clearly communicated through storytelling. And we're just, we're really wired for this. Just think back to caveman days, sitting around the fire and telling stories. I don't know if caveman really told stories, but they probably grunted But we are just really wired for a story from you talk about human history, we're wired for, but also just as newborn babies, we start hearing stories. It's like the first way that we are communicated with. And so anytime someone's talking with you and they say, Hey, let me tell you a story, what happens? You stop what you're doing. You give them your full attention and you're ready to fully engage. So that's why we need storytelling on our sales To engage our people. And I think also to keep them engaged and interested and attracted to what it is that we're offering to them. Because you're the one that taught me this. You said if they're confused or overwhelmed, they're going to ignore it. And I think that in StoryBrand, in the book, I think Donna Miller talks about how you want to make sure that your copy is written so that it doesn't require the brain any calories or any energy expenditure in understanding it. And I think from my perspective, and any of you who are listening who are maybe just starting your business and learning about marketing and the importance of copywriting and specifically your sales page, I tend to be way too wordy of a person. I want to add in a lot of words. And one of the things that you've helped me see is taking, subtracting simpler, Yeah. So I think that's really important and something that you have told me and helped me kind of see throughout this. Is there other, I'm guessing you probably have this, and this wasn't necessarily in one of the questions that we talked about going over, but I think it's important. What are the most common mistakes that you see new business owners or business owners who've been in the game for a while make with their sales page copy? I mean, everybody does it. Yeah, if you could cut your copy in half, if that's all you did today, your page would probably start converting more crazy. Well, your page is dialed in, so you're in good shape, But most people, if you challenge yourself to cut half of the copy out, because people aren't reading the page anyway, they're really skimming through it, they're scanning through it, and so you need to really write it for that. People do not read websites anymore, they just don't. It's really hard to do, and it's helpful to have somebody help you delete the things that are kind of adding the noise. The other thing that, the other mistake I would say that most people make unknowingly of course, is making themselves the hero of their own stories. So they get eager and excited about what they're doing and how they can help you, but ultimately they're talking about themselves rather than their customer or their client. So you really want to keep the focus on what are the struggles that your clients are having? What are their hopes? What are their dreams? Yes, they want to know that you are qualified, but that's about it. They want to know you can solve the problem, but we want to keep it really focused on them. I noticed this a lot on Instagram stories and videos. People are trying to sell their course and they're starting out with themselves and what they offer and what they do. And it's not a bad thing, it's just a little bit premature mature. Yeah. You really want to start with the problem that your customers are having. And I think, again, this is another really important lesson that I've learned from you, and quite frankly, it's the reason why I think not just my sales page, but now my landing pages for my lead magnets are converting at a ridiculous rate at rates. I have one that's converting at 90%, It's insane, right? So what you just said I think is so valuable. It's so important that it bears repeating. So we want to focus on what your person is going to get, and that is not six coaching sessions or the way that they're going to be different. Their life is going to be different, their business is going to be different. The transformation, the promise, the result that they're going to get adds the effect of working with you. And I think that that is, if you don't take anything away from this podcast episode, I would say that is the primary most important thing to look at from my perspective. So Kris, I would love for you to weigh in on that. I completely agree. And this sometimes can be hard to figure out on your own, but really think about it. It's like what is their life going to be like after they work with you, not the day they finished, but really after? Are they going to have more free time? Are they going to be able to be more fully engaged with their family? Are they going to be able to cook healthier food? I mean if you're a diet or something, but are they going to feel, are they going to sit down at the dinner table and really just be present with the people that they care about? There's so many ways, but what I'm trying to show here is not to be timid in what's possible for their lives after they've solved this problem that you're going to help them solve. Think big. And I think that's so important too because I think we do water down because we're so worried about that. We feel a little insecure. We feel maybe lack of some confidence. We have some self-doubt about this thing that we're offering in that comes through in our words without having a really strong, this is what you're getting idea. And unfortunately that really impacts the results because I mean, we as humans, at the end of the day, what we really care about is what's in it for us? What is going to be different for me if I do this thing, if I buy this course, if I invest in this mastermind, if I invest in this program, really, really important piece of hockey, Okay. So one mistake that we make is we write too many words and it just creates noise and confusion, so people ignore it. Another mistake is we don't focus on the result, the transformation, the promise enough. What are some other things that you typically see when you're looking A big one is that's really just says simple to fix is a clear call to action. So if you are the guide and they are the hero, the guide knows what they're doing, they have confidence, they have empathy, they have authority, and they know how to get you to success. So all you need to do as the guide is tell them what you want them to do next. Like schedule a call, make it actionable, not learn more. Learn more is a little weak. You want to be really clear, take the course, join program, schedule a call and make that consistent all the way through the page. So if you're telling me you want me to do five different things, do you want me to go to the about page here? Do you want to go deeper into the course curriculum here? Do you want to learn more here? No, no, no, no, no. Schedule a call. Schedule a call. Schedule a call. I don't care if you repeat it 10 times on that page, it's never too much as Yeah. You solved this problem before for other people. You know what they need to do in order to take that next step to solve it. And I think the other thing here that I think is really important is being very clear with one call to action. So making the call to action strong, like you just said, and they're only being one thing. So many times when we have, because in our courses we allow people to submit something for review. So I'll go to somebody's sales page and I'll look at it and there's navigation across the top. I don't know how you feel about that, but to me I'm like, no, we don't want them to go anywhere. We want them to stay on this page and have only one thing that they can do on this page, which is click this button to enroll or schedule the call or whatever it ends up being. So what do you think about that? Like the navigation on the page When you're on a sales page, you really want them to do one thing. You want them to engage in your program, engage in your course or schedule a call with you. Pick one of those things and repeat that one thing over and over again. When you give people too many options, like a bunch of pages at the top, you have finally drawn them into your world and they've arrived on your sales page and all of a sudden you're going to send them to your blog page up at the top, navigation, do not. We are inundated with information, we are overwhelmed. And what happens when you do that is they might go, oh, lemme check out this blog. Oh, that's cool. And click on a blog and then they get sucked into a blog article and then, oh, per Facebook icon is up here on the upper area here. Oh, check out her Facebook. Well then they've gotten lost in their own Facebook feed. So remove all distractions. You want them there and you want them to continuously get pulled through your story on your sales page all the way through until they're ready to take action. Yeah, I love that. So here's another one that just came up and we had some questions, those of you who are listening, but when Kris is talking, new questions are coming to my mind. So sorry, they're not her. I know she knows the answer. So recently before, maybe five years ago when I was, six years ago, when I was first getting started, it was recommended to me to never put any prices on any pages. I always thought that was a bit strange, but I was like, alright, I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm just going to take the word of whoever I was working with at the time. And I think now at this point, I even see this in myself. I get so annoyed if somebody doesn't put a price on a page. I'm like, just tell me how much it is. My husband is submitting an application for a program, a mastermind, and I'm like, how much is it? He goes, I don't know. They won't tell you. They on the application nothing. I'm like, it's so frustrating to me. I'm like, I'm going to reach out to this person and tell 'em, fix their sales page. I think, and I don't know, this is what my question to you is, how do you feel about having the price on the page versus not having the price on the page? Do you have an opinion about that? It depends on the price of your program. I know a lot of people for the higher hire ticket offers don't tell you the price because they really want to be able to sell to you on that phone call. I don't think that there's a right or wrong. I agree with you that I often will bail. Like if you can't give me the price, I don't want to waste my time on a sales call. I also don't want to be sold to, so I just want to know, and I think that there are really ways to show the price but overcome any sticker shock that might show up. So number one, you can price anchor. So you can do this by saying most You can. I can weave that into my copy. And that does give people an idea of what does this offer cost people in the industry? And then they get to the bottom and they realize that my offer is 3000. So it helps put things into perspective. I think another thing you can do, and you do a great job of this meal, is giving people pricing plans so they can go, oh, it's two payments of this amount or one payment of this amount. And people can respond Totally. So not necessarily, I guess you could test it out and figure out which one makes the most sense. I also want to say this, Kris, anybody who's listening, if you want to see a really well done sales page, go to Kris's sales page and we'll link that up in the show notes of course. But whenever I'm talking with students, I always pull your page up and I am giving them, see how she does this and see how this is so simple here and see how this is this. And I actually really love that you have your prices on your page. I love the fact that you have those on there, even though it's not inexpensive, you're just like, here's what it is. And in my mind I'm like, yeah, that's totally in line with what the industry is operating right Now. Well, I think the benefit of that is that you don't get a lot of people to book a call with you where it's way out of their realm of possibility. Totally. So we all want to save time. We've all got a lot on our plates, and so I'd rather talk to people who are comfortable with that price point and it's a great way to kind of curate that A hundred percent. Yeah, I love that. So any other most I think one of the big ones, which Neil, you and I have kind of just been through this, so it's top of mind is hierarchy of typography. Yes. So really just simplifying yes, even if you've got the great words on your page to create three levels of communication. So that sounds complicated, but it's actually really not. You've got your headline level, which just says at a 25 point font and you've got your subhead font, which is about half that size, and then you've got your body copy font, which is about half that size. So essentially what this does, it helps people scan through the page quicker and get the high level points that you're trying to make, because often people will only read the headlines. So you really want to make sure your story can be told and understood in just your headlines, number one. And number two, when you do some of that heavy lifting and you do some of that work for the viewer, they feel like they can trust you more. You're not overwhelming them, you're not confusing them. You streamlined and simplified your communication to a way that they're like, okay, she knows what she's doing. I can understand what she's saying. If she's not going to overwhelm me here, she's not going to overwhelm Yeah, totally. Yeah, this was something that you brought up to me. And so again, another sales page you could all go look at is a hundred K funnel sales page, because this is a perfect example of Kris working with me. We've had multiple iterations of this, but I really love the page right now, the way it looks. And that is one of the things that we changed was that three level topography of you have a headline font and size, you have a subhead font and size, and you have a body text font in size. And being consistent with that throughout the page makes it easier for the brain to digest and flow through, which is really what we want. We want people to stay And so it's not uncommon at all for a sales page to have over 10 different styles of fonts, sizes of fonts, treatments, fonts, colors of fonts. So the beautiful thing about this is that it's not hard to do and it totally transforms the page from looking kind of it uplevels it to make it feel like it's really professionally designed, even though though it might not be professionally designed, all I've done is picked three font sizes and kept it And it just simplifies it. If you're building your page yourself, in my opinion, as I was revising everything over the last couple of weeks, I was like, oh, this makes my life so much easier. I just know I don't even have to think about it. I just know like, oh, this is a headline. I use this. If I didn't have to really think about font because there was three things and it fit into one of those categories, and that was it. I was done. So much better. I was like, giddy. I couldn't wait to send it to you to show you the upgrades we had made and get your feedback on it. So yeah, I am so pleased with it at where it's at right now. So those are some common mistakes that we make. So hopefully that was helpful to everybody who is listening, I think. Interesting. Let's help kind of connect the dots for people who are listening. A lot of my audience are coaches who are building their businesses. It is challenging and to write copy I find for many of our students is one of the most challenging skills to really build some momentum in. So let's talk about the connection between storytelling and making more money. Is there really a strong connection between those two? Oh yeah. 110%. The strongest connection. I mean it does come back to the trust and that is really how you grow your business is you build trust and we're leaking trust all the time unknowingly through just things that we're not aware of. And so storytelling really, number one, it's hard to do for yourself, but it's actually not a hard skill to do once you can break it down and you have a simple framework for it. So I think there's a big difference that it's not hard to write great copy. It's often hard to write great copy for ourself because we're too it. But once you understand the framework, then it's actually not hard to write for yourself. So you kind of break through that barrier with the story formula, if you will. And this is one of the things why I love having you as the copywriter in our programs, because what you bring is a simple way to write copy. And also this framework that especially when we're starting out, I feel like we kind of need, it's like when you learn how to bowl and they put the bumpers up on the, I don't know why this image just came to me and I was like, Kris kind of puts the bumpers up for us so we can figure out how to keep it inside and try and hit one of the pins. And we kind of need that I think when we're learning skills at first because otherwise it can feel like I'm just throwing stuff on this page, I have no idea what I'm doing, and hopefully something lands. And that's a really challenging, I think, time consuming way to learn how to build this skill. So I'm so grateful to you that you have a framework Yeah, I mean it is so simple when you really break it down. I love that metaphor, by the way. It's brilliant. But yeah, I think it is. It's so torturous to look at a blank page and be like, oh my gosh, where do I begin? Do I have to talk about myself or what is this person doing? I mean, the worst thing you can do is start to look at your competitors and be like, what are they doing? Okay, I'm going to kind of copy what they're doing even though you don't know if what they're doing is actually really working. When we're in business for ourselves, we are the business. We don't want to copy other people. We really want the essence of who we are and how we do things, our unique way of doing things. We want that to come through because it's very easy to get caught up in what our competitors are doing. And whoa, this coach is doing that and this coach is doing that. I want to be like her. But the beautiful thing is effortlessly you do things in your own signature way that nobody else could have ever copy. And you have your own voice and the way you speak about the work that you do is unique to you. And so the most beautiful thing you can do is just know that that information's in there and you might just need some help having somebody extract that out of you and having that framework in it to put the puzzle pieces together. But it's all in there and you know what you're doing and you've got your own voice, whether you know it or not. You've got your own signature way of doing things, whether you know it or not. And the goal is to just really help that come through in your sales page because nobody else can ever copy that. Yeah, I love that. And I think that's so important for everybody to hear that there is no other, you are the, and so that is what the point to creating unique copy that is going to have you stand out. So I love that. Thank you for that point. So we cannot not do an episode where we don't talk about the role of AI and specifically the role of AI in copywriting and through a copywriting and storytelling perspective since what we're talking about here is storytelling is the thing that's going to build trust in your sales page and help people say yes to your program to what you're offering. So Well, it's completely mind blowing. It's really it. We're entering into a whole new territory of copywriting and how it's done. I really think of it. You're having an assistant chef in the kitchen. You're in charge the meal that you want to plan, and then you've just got someone there to chop the onions and make this. It's having a Vitamix there maybe with you some other, it's like really, it's such a powerful tool. I don't think anybody should be afraid of it. I think that you can think of it as a way to help you overcome the hurdles, but it's never going to be a replacement for your voice. But it can definitely give you a kickstart in things or help you not have to start from scratch. I think the most powerful thing and the most beautiful thing about AI is going to be marrying the story framework with ai with you in charge, really having an agenda, knowing what meal you're going to serve and making that AI your bitch. So here's, Kris and I were talking before we hit record and you were talking about this and kind of getting my thoughts on ai and I've just been using it. I've been totally diving all in. I'm like, this is a tool that can just help me and not being freaked out by it and using my own brain still. Of course. It's not like I'm just going to give me a Facebook ad copy and I just copy and paste. No, but it gives me a way to start maybe a line of or a way of working the message. So I love what you just said, and I think Kris and I were talking about before this, we're going to do a workshop specifically for our students on how to do exactly what Kris just was talking about. How do you leverage the AI in the storytelling and framework and make it your bitch? Yeah. I think that's really where the beauty comes. It's people get so paralyzed with copywriting and I get it. It is so hard, but I think with a little bit of education around how to tell a story and then a little bit of education on how to use AI and combining those is going to be Totally. Yeah. And I think I'm super excited for our students. For anybody who is getting into the game of online marketing, if you're building an online business, you're going to learn online marketing. Spoiler alert. I think it's just going to make it easier and faster to get those pieces done. I expect our students will be getting their funnel assets done even faster because they can leverage this. And so for those of you who are listening, if you want to be a part of this workshop that Kris is going to do where we're going to be specifically talking about how to marry the story writing framework with AI and use it to become masterful at copy this year, you're going to want to make sure that you join a hundred K funnel because that workshop's going to be coming up pretty fast and we will put it on the Google calendar for those of you who are already in to get that scheduled into your So super excited about that. And this is the other thing that I just wanted to bring up and it's kind of like why I fell in love with the offer that we created, you created for your business is it's not like hiring a copywriter in a vacuum. It's not doing it all on your own. It's the most beautiful combination of those. And I think for your students who are going to take your how to write copy that sells in two and a half hours program, I think I'm guessing it's going to make your job even easier because when they go through and they answer the questions and they fill them out, you'll be able to show them how to use AI to make those answers even better. And you're going to be starting with something that's just so upleveled from what you would've had originally. You are going to be able to just add that next level magic piece to it. And I think what we're going to see on the other side of that is even better converting higher converting sales pages. That's my thought, but I'd love to have you weigh in on that. I think that, yeah, I think that the big benefit I can see Totally. I think you can hand write anything and give the AI the guidance that it needs to spit out what you're looking for. I think the beauty there is the time saver more than anything. And hopefully more effective Well. And I think it'll be time-saving on your client's part and also your part, because I think what they're going to be giving to you as the first go around is going to be so much better than just having to start from scratch, which is what a lot of us have been doing. When you use AI in a real world way going through this process, then all of a sudden you know how to use AI for other things. So it's all of a sudden we're all just going to save a bunch of time and go to The Live the laptop lifestyle that we were just talking about before we started recording even more opportunity now to be able to do that, It's really exciting. I'm really, really excited about that. I, I'm looking forward to digging deeper in it for my own business but also to help teach people on how to leverage it in a way that also doesn't feel scary or overwhelming. Even AI can be overwhelming at times if you're not sure And that's what I love in the workshop. I'm sure you'll talk about the prompts to use and how to get it to output what it is that you're really looking for. And that's the thing that I've been just testing and trying to figure out over the last few weeks. So that workshop will be super What have you found in the last few weeks with your plane So I just tell it exactly what I want. I'm pretty direct with it. I'm like, write a Facebook ad for this, write a Facebook ad headline for this. And then if I don't, usually the first thing it returns to me is not very, it's okay, but it's not great copy. So I'm like, make it more direct, make it more compelling, make it more interesting, make it simpler, make it juicier. Just all of these prompts that I give it. And then I'll write a headline. I'm like, write another one, write another one, write another one. And eventually I can either it lands on something that's pretty good or it's enough that I can add my brain to it, but then I find something that works really well. I mentioned this, but I changed the headline on a landing page for a lead magnet using this as I was going through and testing this process, this lead magnet landing page was already converting it almost 50%, which I was thrilled with. I'm like, I'll take that all day long. It's now converting it almost 90%, which isn't mind blowing. I never even would've thought that that I know it's literally in a couple of days it increased it almost a hundred percent. So I think that there's lots of opportunity here. I'm super excited for it and I just can't wait for an expert of your level, you understanding I'm not an expert and I'm just using it to the best of my ability. So having somebody like you kind of guide us through prompts to use and how to get what you want out of it is going to be so wildly valuable. So Yeah, me too. And there are also, I don't know if you've used this, but there's scripts that you can use. So you, there's almost like a recipe card. So you give the AI the recipe card and then they know, okay, here we need to start with the problem. And then you've got to give it a little bit of data to start with, but it can spit that out for you. I know it's just so mind. We probably could have a whole Yeah. We'll follow up that before we leave though, I want If you are tired of writing your own website copy or trying to figure out if you're doing it right or doing it wrong and tweaking it and noodling with it, if you're just done with all that, go to red door designs.com and you can work with me. We'll get your website copy or your sales page copy completely dialed in, 2.5 hours flat. The process is really streamlined. It's really fun. It's collaborative, so you're not stuck trying to do it alone. This is really a done for you done with you process. So it's a big relief for a lot of solopreneurs and coaches who just want to know it's done and get their website optimized so it's selling for them. And that way they can just do more of the work that they love to do. There's also a freebie at that same website, red door designs.com, that shows you how to write compelling copy in five minutes. And it really kind of gives you the fundamentals of storytelling and shows you, I give you a worksheet that you can work through. It only takes a few minutes and you can get your fundamentals of your story down and then you can schedule a call with me and we'll go through it together. That is ridiculous. So you want to try out what it's like working with Kris, go to that and of course we'll link it up in the show notes as well for people to take advantage of. But that's crazy. So listen, if you are listening to this, that is not going to be something she's going to have capacity for very long. So I would jump on that right now. Go grab that, get a one-on-one call with her to have her help you walk through that process. Kris, so amazing. Thank you so much for showing up. I feel like we probably just need to have you as a regular contributor to the podcast because you have so much. I would love it. Let's do it. I know things are changing and all the time, so in another few months with AI and this whole, the way things are evolving for online business owners is just, it's happening really It's super exciting, and my goal is to try and bring to everybody here the newest, latest, greatest, at least make you aware of some tools and some things that are out there that can make it even easier for you to be successful in your businesses. Thank you, Kris, for being part of that. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I had a great *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/photo-business-help ### Title: The Hero's Journey to a Successful Photography Website, with Natalie Jennings and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 4970382 ### Content: ## The Hero's Journey to a Successful Photography Website ## The Photo Business Help Podcast, with Natalie Jennings and Kris Jones The Hero's Journey to a Successful Photography Website, with Natalie Jennings and Kris Jones **Do you often second guess yourself, leading to a cycle of repeatedly tweaking the same copy without making progress?** In my recent conversation with Natalie Jennings, we explored how to craft a compelling story on your website.  **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Unlock the art of business storytelling to resonate with your audience and stand out online. ? Harness the power of two simple things to build trust and lasting connections with potential clients. ? Learn a simple strategy to break free from the cycle of second-guessing and make real progress. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Just a quick reminder, if you've been trying links that I've mentioned on any of these recent episodes of the show and they don't work, technology changes and some of the things we offer change. So what we've decided to do is put everything that's current over@photobizhelp.com slash links, and anything that isn't current probably won't work. So if you're having trouble with a link that doesn't work, that's probably why. Head on over to photo biz help.com/links or if you're following along at Photo Biz help on So we articulate their problems so they feel seen, they feel heard, they resonate with you, and they automatically think that you're the best one to solve this problem because you simply articulated it. Then that hero meets a guide with a solution. This is where you enter in. This is the Photo Business Help podcast, a resource for photographers of all levels, from brand new to Burnt Out, who believe that business growth starts with personal growth. I'm your host, Natalie Jennings. I created Jennings photo back in 2010 and have been happily full-time since, but not without some mistakes along the way. Those lessons plus what's really helped me thrive financially and personally are what I want to share with you so you can grow with your photo business too. You'll also hear stories from other photographers and industry folks as well as my favorite ways to be more mindful and happier on this journey. This episode has so much juicy information in it, especially if you're feeling like, gosh, I'm putting myself out there. I have a website, I have social media, and no one's really biting. Or maybe you get a few bites, but you're constantly finding that you have to sort of explain People are asking you, do you do this, do you do that? Or, how come you do it this way? Or you're answering the same questions over and over. Today I'm talking with Kris of Red Door Designs and we're going to go deep into how story, which is like our ancient human way of communicating is by and large the best way to sell and the best way to communicate in general. So we're going to break it down for you, the Hero's Journey 1.0 because we don't have time to get super deep into it, but she is going to give you a bunch of tips. Literally walking away from this episode. You can look at your website and know exactly what might be missing and what you are doing, right? So it's really good to know these things and Kris is awesome at this work. So grab a notebook Maybe just scan through your own website if you haven't looked at it in a while, and we'll dive into this interview right after these words from our amazing sponsors. You've heard me talk about time before, but don't skip past this. This is big news from pick time. It's a game changer. I am so excited about this. This is going to change my business for sure. Pick time is now offering blogs. Yeah, blogs. What does that mean? You can go directly to your gallery. So let's say you have a beautiful mini session gallery that you've already shared with your clients that's already connected to your awesome store where they can buy stuff and you can just with the click of two buttons, make all of those photos in that gallery into a beautiful blog post. Not only that, you can get a link to that blog post, which takes people to pick You can get an embed code. You can literally create this in seconds and embed it on your own website so that you can get the SEO traffic if you want to. But if you wanted to just make a quick blog post for, say, a wedding client to look through, or a really easy way to tell a story, there's so many cool features with this. It is the newest product from pick time and it is going to change the game. You don't need to upload images twice. This is optimized for SEO. There's tons of customizable color palettes, font, collections, photo grids, and multiple layouts. So if you want your blog to look a certain way, you can do that. There's slideshows, you can allow videos or gifs, all that stuff you can embed directly into the blog post. It's amazing. This feature is coming soon in February as of this recording, which is If you are not a paid member of pick time and you would like to take part in this, when all of this launches in the next few days, go to pick time. And when you upgrade to a paid plan, use the code Photo Biz Help. That's Photo Biz help to get one month free. So this is the best thing ever. You can try it for a month, keep paying if you want to, and that's it. It's a great deal. I swear this is going to change everything and it's going to save people so much time. So head over to pick Time, and when you upgrade to a paid plan, use the code PhotoBiz help for one month free and enjoy this new blog feature. So if you're like most photographers, you probably didn't go into business for paperwork, does the chaos of invoices emails to-dos make you a Well, that is where 17 hats comes in. They're all in one mobile friendly platform organizes your entire business. 17 hats handles things like time sucking tasks, payment reminders, capturing leads, and scheduling your meetings with 17 hats important. Emails go out automatically quotes contracts and invoices. Click, click paid. So it's a small wonder that thousands of photographers swear by 17 hats, you'll free up so much time from day stealing. It's like you've cloned yourself. You'll be able to focus on what you do best, which is obviously photography. Meanwhile, 17 hats does exactly what you need done to manage your business just as if you were doing it. So why not clone yourself with 17 hats? Visit 17 hats.com to learn more with the discount code. Photo Biz help. That's 17 hats.com with the discount code. Photo Biz help. Well, thank you so much, Kris, for being here, and I haven't asked you yet, even though we've been chatting for a few minutes before the record Oh, nice. You have a very fuzzy, cute, warm hat on, and I No, I took a really long walk this morning along the river and it was really cold. The grass was frozen, so yeah, I've got my hat on Well, you're talking with the Minnesotans, so it's like eight degrees outside today, so I get the cold a thousand percent. There's no There's just piles and piles and piles of snow. It's nice though. It's a nice change. It gets really green and verdant here in the summer, so it's like a weird switch. Anyway, we are going to talk a little bit today about copy and using words to attract your clients, and I think what drew me to this conversation, and I've covered this before on the podcast, but I love getting different perspectives and I also just reiterating it because I think as photographers we're really lucky that we have powerful imagery that can immediately turn people on or off, but I think that I know that a lot of the questions that I get from my students and from the audience have to do with almost always communication. It kind of comes down to words and as visual artists, I'm sure it's not the first thing we're thinking about. So I know this is your area of expertise, and I thought maybe I'd just hand it off to you, maybe say a little bit about what you do and then we can talk about how to give Sure, absolutely. So my name is Kris, as you know. I'm in Portland, Oregon. I've been in the industry in the marketing industry now 20 years more than that a little bit. And yeah, I am really passionate about telling a beautiful story and story as important as the visuals are the words that you use, and when you put the visuals combined with the words together, magic happens. So I started out in the industry as a designer, and so visuals were really my first language. And what I found over the years is that my clients that I would work with to design websites, I would rely on them to write their own copy for their website. And time and time and time and time and time again, they would come to me and just be like, I don't know what to say. And the deadlines would move back or the start dates would move back. And I just watched so many people struggle and I personally struggled with writing my own copy. So I just decided enough is enough. I'm going to crack the code on this. Maybe it's not as hard as it seems. And I came across a framework called the StoryBrand Framework. A lot of people are familiar with the framework. A lot of people have read the book. It's called Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller. He is a brilliant storyteller and he essentially simplified the components of story and are there are really seven key components to story. And then after really getting to know the framework and using it for many years, I've simplified it even further. So really it comes down to every story, every movie you've ever watched, any story you've ever heard, somebody tell if it's a good story, if it's a compelling story, it always begins with a hero who has a problem that they can't solve. And that hero then eventually meets a guide that has a solution. And through that relationship, the hero finds success, and that is the mystery behind every story you've ever heard. So when you can apply that framework and that's simple, it's three different things. When you can apply that to marketing, all of a sudden you're telling a story that people can really connect with, resonate with, that draws people in and makes them want to work with you because they resonate with you. And when I talk about telling a story, I'm not really talking about once Upon a time or the history of my background is it's really about inviting your potential clients into a narrative with you where they're the hero and you are the guide. And that's really like if you take away nothing else, just the idea that you are the guide and your customers or your clients are the hero, it will change the way you Yeah. Well that Donald Miller book is certainly a popular one, and we'll put link to it in the show notes for sure. I want to dig into that and give maybe an example or two for photographers of just what that might look like. But I also want to highlight, I was just thinking about how you said, I've been doing this 20 years and obviously marketing business has changed. I mean, it's almost unrecognizable almost year to year. It changes so fast. And I thought I'd maybe just quickly ask you before we dig into the other stuff, how important is copy and story in that timeline? Has it pretty much stayed at the very top of the stack or have other things kind of come in and Well, the beautiful thing about storytelling is that it hasn't changed in thousands of years. The only difference is now we know that we can use story in our marketing for it to be much more effective. But as far as what's changed over the 20 years, definitely everything early days, like gosh, 20 years ago creating a website or even 15 years ago creating a website, if you had beautiful photography and really clean design, you were golden. Your business would do great. Totally, and that's all you needed. And now that's just not really that hard to get between all the stock photos out there and all the pre-done templates and Squarespace and all of that. And I think it's a good thing because everybody has access to be able to build websites without spending thousands of dollars. So big picture, it's a wonderful thing, but it's really leveled the playing field. So in order to stand out, you really need to tell a story, and that's really the one thing that requires a high level of Absolutely. So the hero in our story as photographers, our clients need good photos. I guess that would probably be the main problem that they're trying to solve. But I'm also quite certain, at least in my audience, that they also want it to be relatively painless and easy, and if they have little kiddos quick. And there's a few other points to kind of hit on that. I'm, again speaking just from lifestyle photography and we're the guide. So maybe would it be cool to pick it up from there and just talk around that? Give a couple examples to photographers around how that works. So every story begins with a hero that has a problem. So think about your clientele and it really would change depending on if you're doing wedding photography, what are their struggles, what are their problems versus a family portrait photography, those clients are going to struggle with different things. So if it were a family portrait photography, it might be they're unable to ever get their family all together in one group because take the photo in the family or usually the mom taking the photos so she not in any of photos, photos that they might be struggling with the fact that they've got too much going on and they don't have time to capture these important moments of life. That might mean that their house is, their family's very vibrant and loving, but there are no visuals on their walls that really show that sure, they want their house to feel like a home. I mean, there's probably dozens and You kind of nailed some of them. And then I was thinking about wedding photographers. Actually, we have a lot of those listening and this idea of I want to feel comfortable, confident, I want to know that I don't have to worry about it, that this photographer isn't going to be late or mess up or be rude or too much, or there's all these things because you're really sharing a space with someone in a really intimate way. Photographers are often the only ones allowed in certain situations besides the couple or whatever's going on. So I think there's a lot of stress around that if they pick the wrong person, so many things can essentially go wrong. And if they pick the right person and if they feel confident that they're the right person, whether that's because you're sharing reviews or because you're really a great person to person when you do your first meeting with the couple, all of those things play into it. And I think I'm bringing this up only because I think photographers are really just thinking about like, oh my gosh, I'm shooting at that church. I can't wait to put them by that window. So often just thinking about the visual and the product that all of these other things that apply to the hero's problem are not actually to do with photography. I mean, obviously a portion of it are, Totally. Yeah, exactly. Everybody thinks that we make decisions based on facts. Like, okay, I am having a wedding, I need it to be photographed, and so check the box. I need a photographer. But we really make our decisions based on emotions. So if you can put people's emotions at ease through what you say on your website and help them understand you've got this, you're the guide, you've done this a million times before, you know how to capture those moments. You know how to put people at ease. You know how to be an invisible force that's going to capture these moments and eliminate the stress for the bride. So all those things are problems that you can help them understand that you recognize. And what's interesting, when we are really clear and we really articulate their struggles or their problems, the things that are keeping them up at night, when we articulate that, the better we articulate it, the more quickly they're going to immediately think we're the ones that can photographers where if you're listening, what are all of the things that you do really well? Maybe you're super punctual, you have an easy signup, bookings system. All of these things like you are really fast with little kids, you're great with dogs. I don't know. Say all of those things, say them all the time because those are the things like you just said, that I think photographers forget to talk about. I mean, they just really just talk about the product and I can't stress enough how much it helps to talk about all that other stuff. Yes. Yeah, it's so true. I mean, you want to talk about all that other stuff as it relates to your client. You definitely want to show the benefits of working with you. Of course, you really want to show how are they going to succeed because of this? How are they, what's their life going to be like after this? Because they've hired you, they're going to have these incredible albums forever. They're going to have these moments that are embedded into their memories because you've captured those. So we really want to make sure we speak to all the happy end result that all of this is going to It is. So we've got the hero that has a problem. So we articulate their problems so they feel seen, they feel heard, they resonate with you, and they automatically think that you're the best one to solve this problem because you simply articulated it. And then that hero meets a guide with a solution, and this is where you enter into the story. Notice, you don't talk about yourself at the beginning of the story, you talk about the hero, and then about halfway through your page, that's when you've really earned their trust and earn the right to introduce yourself as the guide. And the idea is really to position your services as the solution to their problem. I'm going to repeat that. So we want to position your services as a solution to their problem, and when we do that, we become the guide. We do that through empathy. We do it through authority and positioning our services in that way, and empathy, a guide has been there, done that and understands the frustration or the fear or the struggle that their heroes going through. And so you just kind of empathize like, Hey, I get this. This is hard. This is a big decision. There's a lot writing on this decision, and it feels like a lot. The last thing you want is more stress on your big day. So through that empathy and through authority, people just want to know that you know what you're doing basically. And authority can come through in a few different ways. It's really pretty easy to do. You could say 125 number of weddings shot or 12 years in the business or some kind of certification that you might have, authority too. So that's part two. We've got a hero with a problem. They meet a guide with this solution, and then that hero finds success and it's your job as Can I pause you for a quick second before we go into that, what success looks like? Yes. You had mentioned to not at first, just jump in with your solution as the guide. Yes. What could that kind of look like, that time period? Is it like a series of emails or, I mean, how does that look to someone who just comes into a business as someone that needs, we'll just say a wedding photographer. How long is that journey until you step in and go, I know what you need, or what does that kind of look like? Does that make sense what It totally makes sense. And if you want to go to my website, red door designs.com, you can see that all of this in action, but it happens. That all happens on your webpage, but it happens in a specific order. A lot of self-employed people, we talk about ourselves right off the bat at the beginning before we've really established resonance with the person who's coming to our website. So part of how we establish that resonance is letting them know that we understand where they're at, we care about their problem, we care about solving that problem for them, and we show them what success looks like. So what that means on your website, and this is true for pretty much all your social media posts, even your social media profiles, your email signature, you can put these messages in there and I'll kind of talk you through what that But essentially on the homepage of your website, you want to start with the problem. You want to communicate maybe five bullets that they're struggling with, and then you want to follow that by painting a picture of what's possible. Our brains are just constantly scanning our environment to figure out how we're going to thrive, how we're going to survive. And so we want to just spoonfeed that up to them right off the bat, and this is not features yet. We just want to show them how are they going to thrive? And that might be like I mentioned before, after the fact, after they've worked with you, how's their life going to be better for it? So you want to do that right off the bat, and then you want to introduce yourself as the hero through Perfect. That's very helpful. Let's jump back into the Correction, then. You introduce yourself as the guide, not You're right. I didn't even catch that either. And now I'm You are the Yoda, you're the Yoda to Luke Skywalker. So folks are in that place. And then I kind of cut you off for that question, but now we want to show them what success looks like. Is Yeah. So think of three ways that their life will be better because they've worked with you, and that might just be for wedding photographer. I mean, you can probably come up with a ton of these ideas, but examples might be able to have a photos that you one day show your kids and capture your special day and even moments that you weren't even aware of that happened. There's all kinds of beautiful things that happen because of the work Well, I always go to easing that stress, like being a fly on the wall, making sure that everything's captured, you don't have to worry about it, that you'll have a beautiful story, punctuality, communication, just all of that stuff really eases people's minds and letting them know that they can just stop worrying about it. I think particularly for weddings, if you can take worry off their list, like, oh, photographer's all good off the list. If you can do that as soon as possible with like you said, with authority and all of those things, and that's another podcast, but that's what a great sales call will do, is just when you can take that off their plate before they've even booked with you where they're like, oh, we just need this person. We don't want to think about this anymore. I think that's a really big one. You bring up a really good point with the sales call. So the idea is that your website is your sales call, so if you've done your homework and you've done your work and you're telling a really powerful story on your website, then by the time they get on the call with you, they're already sold on you. They just want to essentially talk through a couple details and book it. And so I found with my clients, just the amount of time saved and effort of sales calls is really eliminated, which is such a gift, And you can really tell when you're doing something. I have a private coaching program called The Greenhouse, and that sales page is almost exactly like what we've been talking about, but it's quite detailed. There's testimonials, there's the problems right up front. There's all that kind of stuff, and the folks that I've worked with in that container have all jumped on the sales call and just been ready. They just had a few questions, and I think you can tell because I mean, when I reflect on that first iteration of that program three years ago, I was not doing a good job communicating that. So there were people saying no, and there were people that had a lot of questions, and anytime I tell Audrey and I, who's my co-host, we talk about this a lot, but anytime clients are coming to you with lots of questions or if you find yourself being like, why do people keep asking how to check out of their cart? Or whatever the thing is, we all have these things that pop up that are redundant. It's almost always because you're not explaining it super well and just remembering that you are the one in your business all day long every day, and so it might be completely obvious to you, but it's not obvious to a Yeah. That's called the curse of knowledge, and it's really common for anyone who's an expert in their field, we forget what it's like to not know what we know, and so we end up speaking to other people or potential clients as if they get it, and with language that goes over their head. That's right. That's a really common thing, and it can be eliminated just by paying attention to those questions you're talking about or putting it in front of a friend's eyes and saying, okay, if you didn't know me, what would be Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's exactly in my program, I have the Baby Boomer test, which I lovingly call because my folks are of that generation, and I'll just say, can you just look at this and figure out how to get from A to B? And if they can't, then it's probably needs to be simplified because it's just a really good metric for the average person that isn't Just one example, but I totally agree with that. Before we jump off, and I think this is an amazing thing to think about already. I know people listening are like, oh gosh, I don't have any of that on my site. But let's maybe just reiterate, if I were to go to so-and-so's website and they're a wedding photographer, what should they have as far as just one more time kind of what should we see as a client that is, or the hero that has major anxiety about wanting to find a competent, talented wedding photographer? What you want to do upfront in that upper hero section is you just want to clearly articulate what you do. I'm a photographer who photographs weddings. It's that you could probably make it a little bit more interesting, but it should be so stupid simple. It shouldn't have to burn any brain calories to figure out what you do and who you do it for. Yeah, and I was going to say, your Instagram is like that, your bio, how would you tell someone what you do if you were just talking to your friend, oh, I do blah, blah, blah, blah, so that blah, blah, blah, blah. It can be that easy, rather than it being really kind of esoteric and trying to figure out what's going on. For example, photo Business Help was named Photo Business Help because I was like, well, it is. I was like, maybe we could call it clicking with, I mean, I went through and there's a lot of great photo businesses. I don't want to offend anybody that have really funky names and that's cool, but for me, I was just, this is what it is, so I'm just going to And you just saved yourself probably a year of your life not having to explain what it is because the name spells it out there for people. So you've really got five seconds in that upper area to communicate what you do and who you do it for. And if you can't clearly communicate that a lot of people will leave the website, this is going to be too much work. Everyone's kind of overwhelmed with information anyway, so you just want to keep it stupid, simple, clear over, clever every day, Clear over clever. That's the best. Everyone wants to be Really no, no. I know. I like to be clever too, but clear wins every time. And then you want to follow that up with a few bullets about you might say, are you struggling with? And then three bullets that are really the words that your clients tell you in their language, what are they struggling with? They're stressed out about their big day, so many details, all the things. So you want to do three to five bullets of that problem, and then you want to paint a picture of what success looks like for them. What is that day? They're going to fully engage in your special day because you won't have to worry about a thing. What is their life really going to look like because they've hired you? And then you want to introduce yourself as the guide and position your services as the solution to that problem. Beautiful. It's so funny though because it's simple yet, and especially with photographers, a lot of this gets overlooked, and fair enough, if you are a talented photographer or even competent, your images can sell someone. I mean, if they're just like, I like that, that's what I want. But it's a very, very saturated industry, so to be able to just be clear and not clever, be able to communicate your value, all of that kind of stuff is It is simple, it truly is. But there is a thing called the bottle effect, which is it just means that when we're too close to our own business, it's like trying to read the label of the bottle from inside the bottle. The label cannot be read, and this is true for every business owner. When we are the business, we are just so close to it. We can't get the perspective we need, and I work with people who are authors who are writers as a profession, but they're again, struggling with this. It's not about if you're a good writer or not. The challenge is because you're just so close to your own self and your own business that it's really hard to write about it, which is why I do the work that I do. It's just to create that perspective, that fresh eyes on you and your business and the perspective that is really critical to In college, I had a creative writing minor and was really interested in all sorts of books on writing and stuff, and Stephen King, his on writing book, which is amazing, even if you're not a writer, he always talks about killing your darlings when you have this loving relationship with your favorite things you've come up with, and then someone else looks at it and they're like, I don't get it. You have kind of an entire narrative and experience in your own head kind of attached to this thing that no one else can see. So anything that you do creatively, if you can walk away from it and come back to it, I think same with your business. Maybe just don't look at your website for a month and then come back to it and be like, oh, that is not Right? Mean, and the other thing to keep in mind, I think what you mentioned earlier was just put it in front of somebody who has no idea who you are or what you do. Go to a coffee shop and be like, can I buy you a coffee? If you look at my website, you can get really valuable information that way. The other thing that I like people to know, because I think it lets people off the hook with the pressure to write is that people actually don't read websites anymore. They scan them. When you have a long paragraph of copy, it will not get read. People do not read websites anymore. They scan 'em. So you want to make sure your headlines are doing the heavy lifting for you. You want to make sure they're intentional, not about me. You want to really have those headlines be working for you, and then instead of long paragraph of copy, you want maybe one or two or three sentences at the most. Beautiful. Well, I think that gives people a lot to think about, and Donald Miller's book is highly recommended, so check that out too. But you've really covered the basics. It's like, that's it everyone, but we still need you because sometimes it's just too difficult to do it on our own. So if you're feeling really stuck and you're listening with all this stuff, obviously check out all of Kris's stuff too, because we have that on the show notes, in the show notes. I dunno what I'm talking about. Where can people find you? Where's your best favorite place for people to find you? If You want to work with me or you want to take advantage of my free offerings, you can go to red door designs.com. That's red, R-E-D-D-O-O-R designs, plural, D-E-S-I-G-N s.com, and you can find everything there. You can also check out my main offering, which is copy that sells website copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, so if you're ready to check off website, copy off your list, you and I can get it done together in two and a half hours and it'll be done forever, and then your website will become your That's brilliant. The quick turnaround I think is really Yeah, I mean, when you own your own business wearing all the hats, there's not a lot of free time and you don't have time to, number one, write it yourself or hire a copywriter and spend a month going back and forth doing edits, and that's why it's a collaborative process. We literally do Very cool. Well, if that speaks to you, please check out Kris's stuff, and all of that's linked in the show notes. I just wanted to sort of wrap up with one thing that really I try to ask my guests, what is a quote or an idea or something that you turn to that just really helps you? It doesn't even have to be related to business. It can just be like I say this every Yeah. Oh, what a great question. I think that something that helps me a lot is just asking myself the question, how can I make this easier? And whatever I'm doing, how can I make it easier? And I find that I can complicate things just like I think humans, we all do, and especially if we want to put ourselves out there and in a really, not a perfect way, but just I have a high level of I expect a lot out of the work that I do, and so it's a fine balance between perfectionism and just doing your best, but I find that that question helps me just continue to keep things really, really simple. I love that. It actually just made me relax. When you said it, I was like, Hmm, how can I make it easier? Yeah, Please do and share it with me. But I think that that's super valuable, and all of this was fantastic. I know it's a baseline sort of place to start for people, but I really think for photographers, this is going to be super useful. So thank you, Kris, so much, and we can do this again, maybe dig in a little deeper on some of this stuff another time, but I really Yeah, I'd really love to. I think we should definitely do Sounds good. Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed that. I think we jumped around a little bit, but for the most part, I mean, I learned stuff and I was reminded that man communication is so, so important. I think all of the bullet points we covered here are useful forever, no matter what you're doing, whether you're a photographer or doing something else. I think this was a fantastic overview and really tangible stuff to take away. If you enjoyed this episode, please go back and check out episode number 3 55. It was just a couple of weeks ago with Tenay Sanders. We're talking copywriting 1 0 1, tips and tricks for photographers. If you package these two episodes together, take a few notes, you are going to be well on your way to attracting clients, more clients, and having a stronger message. Thank you for listening. You've heard me talk about pick time before, but don't skip past this. This is big news from pick time. It's a game changer. I am so excited about this. This is going to change my business for sure. Pick time is now offering blogs. Yeah, blogs. What does that mean? You can go directly to your gallery. So let's say you have a beautiful mini session gallery that you've already shared with your clients that's already connected to your awesome store where they can buy stuff and you can just, with the click of two buttons, make all of those photos in that gallery into a beautiful blog post. Not only that, you can get a link to that blog post, which takes people to pick time or this is my favorite part. You can get an embed code. You can literally create this in seconds and embed it on your own website so that you can get the But if you wanted to just make a quick blog post for, say, a wedding client to look through, or a really easy way to tell a story, there's so many cool features with this. It is the newest product from pick time and it is going to change the game. You don't need to upload images twice. This is optimized for SEO. There's tons of customizable color palettes, font, collections, photo grids, and multiple layouts. So if you want your blog to look a certain way, you can do that. There's slideshows, you can allow videos or gifs, all that stuff you can embed directly into the blog post. It's amazing. This feature is coming soon in February as of this recording, which is February 2nd, it should be well on its way. If you are not a paid member of pick time and you would like to take part in this, when all of this launches in And when you upgrade to a paid plan, use the code Photo Biz Help. That's Photo Biz help to get one month free. So this is the best thing ever. You can try it for a month. Keep paying if you want to. And that's it. It's a great deal. I swear this is going to change everything and it's going to save people so much time. So head over to Pick Time and when you upgrade to a paid plan, use the code PhotoBiz help for one month free and enjoy this new blog feature. One more quick reminder, if you're feeling overwhelmed right now, disorganized, check out 17 hats. You'll be able to focus on what you do best photography. Meanwhile, 17 hats does exactly what you need done to manage your business just as if you were doing it yourself. Go to photo biz help.com/seventeen hats to get 50% off your first year. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/office-hours ### Title: Office Hours ### Page ID: 4983987 ### Content: #### Zoom Room Link FOR CURRENT CLIENT ONLY — WITHIN 30 DAY SUPPORT WINDOW. [**https://us06web.zoom.us/j/5038885050?pwd=NDRXa3ZkOXF4TTR2SFIzczZUd2FWQT09**](https://us06web.zoom.us/j/5038885050?pwd=NDRXa3ZkOXF4TTR2SFIzczZUd2FWQT09) You have 30 days of support after your Signature StorySelling Session/2 Office Hours if needed. If you have any questions, please email kris@reddoordesigns.com. Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Friday, April 24th from 11:30 - 12:15 PST - Friday, May 8th from 11:30 - 12:15 PST - Friday, May 22nd from 11:30 - 12:15 PST --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/red-door-designs-storybrand-copy-that-sells-copy ### Title: Red Door Designs Home | StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling ### Page ID: 5011476 ### Content: # I create websites & sales pages that help you stand out as an expert in your field. ## A lot of business owners lose sales because their website or sales page is unclear. ### Ready for... #### MORE TIME #### MORE MONEY #### LESS STRESS ## You deserve a website or sales page that works as hard as you do. ## Here's why people buy from you, ## *(and why they don't)* ## The days of marketing overwhelm are *OVER!* ### Craft Your Story ### Create Blueprint ### Explode Revenue #### ***INCLUDES FAST-TRACK GUARANTEE*** ## Focus on what you do best, and I'll make you look good doing it. #### Stop wasting wifi. Let's Talk. ## Here are the 3 ways to work with me. ### Learn to Write Compelling Copy in 5 min. Flat ### StoryBrand Copy That Sells — ### in 2.5 Hours Flat #### Work 1:1 with Kris #### Done in 2.5 Hours #### Double Conversions ### High-Converting Website & Sales Page Design ## Wondering what it's like to work with Kris? ## Kris listened to our needs and transformed our website into a tool that immediately brought in new customers. ## Here's how to stand out in a crowded market... ## Recent website transformations that have quadrupled business growth! ## See how Dana grew her coaching business 5x faster **You're better than your competitors. Let's make sure the world knows it.** They've been avoiding a revamp ​for way too long, but realize it's too financially **harmful** to let it sit stagnant.  Most websites and sales pages fail because they're missing 1 or more of these elements. A lot of business owners are stuck with a website or sales page that doesn’t communicate their value or convert. I help you up-level your game with strategies backed by brain science, so you can attract ideal clients and grow your business with ease. As a business owner myself, I get it how overwhelming it can feel to navigate a website or sales page revamp. Over the last 20 years, I’ve helped hundreds of business owners just like you. And you know what I've discovered? A crazy simple, but effective formula for success: ​ **Clear Words + Clean Design + Human Psychology = More Profits** I’ve used the same powerful 3-step process to help my clients amplify revenue. It's just plain wrong to spend money on marketing that doesn't give you a return on your investment. This 5 minute video and toolkit will show you how to leverage story to get more leads. Stop missing opportunities and start communicating in a clear & compelling way. Apply it to every facet of your business! (*website copy, emails, social posts and more*). Perfect for busy coaches, consultants and business owners who want to stop losing sales because their website copy isn't working. We'll use StoryBrand strategy to double your conversions. I believe getting website copy that sells should be quick, easy and fun! We'll build your website or design your sales page that converts visitors into paying clients. Our design process is backed by years of experience and data-driven insights, ensuring that every element of your design is optimized for maximum selling potential. From the copy to the design and development, we'll work with you every step of the way to ensure your website is your most powerful marketing tool. Let Donald Miller, author of Building a StoryBrand, tell you. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - A website that's cluttered and overwhelming. - A sales pages that's not optimized to convert. - ​Being too close to your business to talk about it clearly.  - A non-existent marketing strategy.​ - Feeling embarrassed to send prospects to your website.​ - Not attracting your ideal audience.​​ - Feeling overwhelmed with where to begin. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/social ### Title: Social ### Page ID: 5012034 ### Content: #### Instagram @reddoorstory #### Youtube @reddoordesign *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/freedom ### Title: Freedom ### Page ID: 5015147 ### Content: #### A bite sized course to help you strategically take a year off Instagram #### Instagram @reddoordesign #### Youtube @reddoordesign *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/talk-with-renee-dalo ### Title: Talk About Quick Copywriting That Sells, with Renee Dalo and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5031101 ### Content: ## Talk About Quick Copywriting That Sells ## Talk with Renee Dalo, and Kris Jones Talk About Quick Copywriting That Sells, with Renee Dalo and Kris Jones **Do you ever find it challenging to clearly articulate the value of your work so you can charge more?** In my recent conversation with Renee Dalo, we discussed rapid copywriting and its ability to increase profits. **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn the techniques to craft copy efficiently and effectively. ? Discover how rapid copywriting can lead to increased sales and revenue. ? Uncover the secret behind keeping your message clear so it connects AND converts. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. You're listening to talk with Renee Dao, episode 1 73. Talk about quick copywriting with Kris Jones. Kris Jones is a story StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Designs, mentored by the author of Building a StoryBrand, Donald Miller himself. And with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike and Adidas under her belt, Kris is extremely passionate about helping female small business owners and service providers get website copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. Kris has been able to achieve incredible transformations for her clients, including increased revenue by 300% record breaking lead calls and clients booked scaling from 30 K months to 300 K months, charging six times more for the same service. Kris believes that writing copy for your own business doesn't have to feel like torture. In fact, once you know how to tell a compelling story, it can actually be fast, easy, and fun. And Kris is here to share exactly that with us today. So friends, go grab your coffee, grab your tea, and let's talk it out.  Welcome to Talk with Renee DLow, this chat for wedding pros and creatives. Tune in every week for no bss real talk from industry experts that want to help you thrive in your business and your life. Here's your host, event planner, educator, and sushi addict, Renee Dao. Grab a glass and get ready to talk it out.  Hello. Hello friends. Welcome to another episode of Talk with Renee Dao. It's me, your girl, Renee Dao. Guess what? I've had a lot of caffeine so far this morning and the recipient of all that caffeine this week is the lovely Kris Jones. How are you?  I actually am and I today drank some coffee that was infused with mushrooms. Not psychedelic mushrooms, thankfully for you. But yeah, I like it. I can't really tell the difference, but I figure  It's supposed to be like the adaptogens, right? It's good for you.  Let's see. You'll have to report back and let us know.  It's only time will tell. Well, we're going to need that brain power today. Friends, we're talking about writing compelling copy, which listen for Wedding Pro. It's like I have to be honest with you, Kris, this is a little bit of a bane of our existence because I don't know if you've read a bunch of Wedding Pro websites these days, but they all say the same thing, which is I love weddings. I love love, and honestly, it just gives me a big eye roll.  We're going to make it perfect for you, your perfect special day. Yeah, no, thank you. No, thank you. So I love that you're a StoryBrand guide. We have spoken with other StoryBrand copywriters before, but for those people who really don't know what that means, can you just give a little overview of what's different about StoryBrand?  Yeah, I mean, the idea behind StoryBrand is really that all our copy should be telling a story because stories are really how humans relate to each other and from we've been listening to stories from our early years throughout our whole lives, and StoryBrand really takes the story framework and helps you implement that same framework into your marketing. So any movie you've ever watched, book you've ever read really follows a specific formula, and it's just an incredibly powerful formula, especially when we incorporate it into our marketing.  I think the reality that we're all just listening and watching and absorbing the same 10 stories over and over is kind of a mind game at a certain point when you realize it. This is a tangent, but I'll go there. I was talking to my nephew this week, he was here visiting and we were trying to explain to him the plot of Breaking Bad. Did you watch Breaking Bad the show?  Yeah, we were obsessed with it, but he's a little too young for it. It happened when he was a child, so we're trying to explain it to him. And my husband said, we both said, well, it's such a compelling character, he's the tragic hero. And Anthony said, what are you talking about? We're like the archetype, the tragic hero. And he didn't know about it. And so we went over all the archetypes and I had that realization, like you said, Kris, that it's all just the same 10, 12 stories over and over, but we find them still so compelling and also a little bit comforting, right? Because we sort of can tune into like, oh, I think I might know what happens here. And then we feel confident about it. I  Think well, so true. And the other thing is as humans, we are all living our own hero's journey. So we're the hero of our own story, our own life story, which is why we get pulled into movies and we just relate to that hero character. We're all heroes essentially in our own lives. So that's the other reason  I love it. So for many business owners, I know myself included, I'm very glad my very first website is no longer still on the internet because I totally DIYed my website copy. This was before I knew the term for that was copy. I was like, I got to write some words on this website. Here we go. And I did my best. But then eventually I hired copywriters for, I don't want to say they were expensive because I think they were worth it, but at a certain point, I really do believe everything in business. I kind of feel like I should know how to do it myself and then I can hire out so that maybe I know what I'm hiring for. But for anyone listening who is maybe unfortunately they didn't write their own copy, but they sort of copied their own copy, what can I know you're out there. What is your take on DIYing your copy?  Well, I think that the path that you just shared with me is such a common one. I think it is really typical, and I think it's also not a bad thing When you're starting out your own business, you don't want to pour a lot of money into it and you kind of DIY everything. And there's really nothing wrong with that in the beginning. But eventually, once you realize your business is viable and you're getting clients and you want more clients, a lot of business owners end up hiring a copywriter like, gosh, if I DIYed it and I know this business is working and has the potential to grow, then if I hire a copywriter, wow, what's going to happen with my business? So the truth is, when you DIY your own copy, we just don't know what we don't know. So we just end up talking a lot about ourselves. And  When we do that, and it makes sense, right? You're like, okay, people come to my website, they want to learn about me, so I'm going to talk all about myself. What else would I talk about? But what happens when we do that is that we make ourselves the hero of the story. And when you learn a little bit about storytelling, it's one thing what I just shared was we're all the hero of the story of our lives, but in our business, we actually don't want to be the hero of our business. We want our clients and our customers to be the hero of our businesses' story. And there are two real essential characters in every story. There's the hero and the guide. And when you think about any movie, breaking Bad would be a good one, but I'm thinking right now of Karate Kid, right?  Mr. M Agi was the ultimate guide. He'd been there, done that, he'd won the championships, thank you. And then the adorable Ralph Macho karate kid in the original karate kid, that was way back when he was the perfect hero because he had the potential to find success, but we didn't really know if he could do it or not. And that's really where your clients are when they're at your website, they come to your website, they're struggling with a problem, and they're looking to you to be their guide to hire to really solve their problem. And so that's what happens when we make ourselves the hero of our own story on our website. We essentially kick our customers or our clients out of the story because there's only room for one hero in every story. So when you establish yourself as that guide, you really invite your customer into a narrative with you, and they cannot help but engage.  It is so powerful, and it does so many things around building resonance with your clients, building trust, helping them realize that you're the best one to solve this problem for them. So that's kind of why I wouldn't DIY, my own copy. And then often what happens, and I'd love to hear how it worked for you, Renee, but from what I hear from my clients is all the time I hear this, they come to me and they say, I just spent, or last year I spent $10,000 on a really expensive copywriter to help me write my sales page or to write my website. The highest one I've heard is $40,000 and that it didn't actually work. It's one thing if it works, right? It's like this will give me a return on the investment. But what happens is often I'm not saying I consider myself a copywriter, so I would never say it's bad to hire a copywriter or it's not a great thing to do.  But what happens often depends on the approach that the copywriter takes. Most often a copywriter will gather information for you and then from you and then go off and write it in a silo without you. Ultimately, that results in a lot of back and forth. So my clients tell me, number one, I spent a ton of money on the writing. Number two, I spent a ton of time going back and forth and back and forth with revisions and refinements and corrections. And so ultimately when you just don't have a lot of time, so the whole idea of hiring a copywriter is to save yourself the time and also to get something that actually works. Often I find it doesn't give you a return on the investment and you end up wasting a lot of time. And then the third thing that happens is you send somebody to your website and you kind of cringe because the copy doesn't feel aligned with your own voice.  Yeah, it just doesn't feel like you, and when we are the face of our own business, it needs to feel like it needs to really be aligned with you and be in alignment with your own voice.  Right? I agree with that. And I also think, well, so much of what you said resonated. I think too for me as an entrepreneur, and I have two businesses and many people that assist, and I have a lot of support, and I'm very grateful for that, but often my days feel a little bit like Swiss cheese in that I'm doing one thing and then I'm running to something else, then I'm doing to something else. And when I've worked with copywriters in the past, when they send you the copy, Hey, review this, it's like, well, I might not be in the right mind frame to do that right now, but I kind have to in order for that other person to do their work. I'm very aware that as the head of this company, I have to do my piece so other people can do theirs.  So sometimes it has happened where we get into this sort of rhythm where I'm, I'm receiving copy, but I'm not really in the right frame my mind to review it. Then I review it and I'm like, that's good enough. And then we get it back and I'm like, oh, well this sounds like a very vanilla version of me. Don't like that. And then I have to go in and sort of spice it up, which is fine, which I think we probably all have to do at some point, make it our own, but I don't know, it's sort of a, I guess it's an imperfect process either way. You look at it.  Totally. I mean, I think both of them are frustrating, and it is writing copy for your own business, for your own self feels like torture for most people. It's  One of those nightmare things that gets pushed to the bottom of the, to-do list day after day, which turns into month after month and it's dreadful. It's like that annoying homework assignment that never ends. And I think as business owners, we want to do the work because we love the work, but what we don't realize is that when you go into business for yourself, you basically get to do the work you love, but you also have to become a part-time copywriter. There's so much content to be created and it's hard to know what's working and what's not. Anyway, I mean, it's just a pickle.  It really is. It's a really big pickle. So the work that I do is really efficient and effective, and it was born out of this challenge that not only I had myself as a business owner, but that I saw my clients struggling with time and time and time again. And believe me, I've tried, I've been doing this now 20 years, so I've tried all different kinds of solutions, and ultimately what I found was that it has to be a cooperative and a collaborative process in order for it to work and in order for it to take the least amount of time and to be the most effective. The idea is that I don't want any business owner to feel stuck writing their own copy. And I also don't want any business owner to be stuck feeling cringey when they're sending somebody to their own website when they should really feel really proud and excited about that.  The way that I found that it works is around collaboration. It's like I know how to extract those questions out of you that help you tell your story, and through that, I hear your voice, I hear your style, and then I write the copy for my clients and then we get on a 90 minute collaboration call. Because to your point, Renee, when you're not in the right headspace to be reviewing copy, it could kind of hit you from any different angle. And you also don't have somebody there with you to go, oh, this is why I put that there, and this is why this line of copy is really important, and here's the strategic thinking that is behind each and every word and each and every section on your website. So that's also part of the collaboration call that I do is really educational in many ways. So it's the copy that I write and collaborate with. There are rarely a lot of edits because half of the challenge is really helping my clients understand the strategy and why something needs to be said, and then we work together to make sure it's said in the right tone, in the right voice.  Yeah, I think tone is so important. And I also, it's so funny that we're having this conversation today because last night, fairly late at night, I was procrastinated about something, full honesty on the show always I was procrastinating about something else, and I went onto my Renee Dao website and I was looking around and I was trying to update some images, and then I looked at this little tiny piece of copy that was attached to this freebie that I offer about how to journal, and I wrote all the copy for that website because when we were redesigning the website, I thought, well, it was very important to me that it sounded like me. But then like you said, it became torturous to have to write this copy just because I just never, it's so different when you're being in your business than talking about the business. For me, it's two different things and I can easily write copy for someone else, but for myself, I'm like, so anyway, I was looking at this little snippet of copy and it was basically something to compel someone to click on this freebie of how to journal. And I looked at this little line and I thought, who wrote that? Because it was so, it was like, do you think you might be ready to journal? If so, here's a guide.  First of all, that's not how I speak. I would never, but I did. I very much wrote that, and I thought, what kind of mood was I in when I wrote that I was probably exhausted and tired and didn't want to write anymore and was like, here you go. And so I changed it to journaling can change your whole business in life. Click here to get started. That is how I talk much better. That is what I would say to someone. I would say journaling has changed my whole life. Just click here, get started, just even if it's imperfect, start now. That's what I would say.  Yeah, and you bring up such a good point around writing copy for your own website because number one, once you build your own website or you know how to go in and change it, which most of us do, especially with all the easy intuitive cloud builders these days, you go in there and you noodle around. I mean, in this situation it was great. You caught something and then you fixed it, and you know your own voice well enough to be able to do that. A lot of times it's really like throwing, I was going to say throwing spaghetti at the wall.  Yeah, throwing a dart in the dark. So we end up, we don't have a lot of time anyway, but we end up going into the back end of our website and noodling around and wondering what's working, what's not. Maybe I should tweak this. Is that working? I'm working with a client right now who changes his website all the time, and I get it. I mean, we all have been there, but the beauty of working with a storytelling expert is that you don't have to wonder anymore.  It's going to work and you know why it's working, and so you just don't have to waste your time going back in there noodling around because it works and you feel confident about that. But I wanted to also share with you that there's a name. There's a name for what you're talking about when it comes to your ability. You can write for somebody else, but you can't write for your own business. And that is just the case for a hundred percent of entrepreneurs out there, business owners out there, it's called the bottle effect. I dunno, have you heard  Of before Bottle Effect? No, I haven't. Tell me more.  Basically when you're too close to your own business, it's like trying to read the label from inside the bottle.  So true. That can only be read from outside the bottle. So it's literally impossible to get the perspective you need and unless you cloned yourself and then cleared your brain and took a fresh look at your bottle. Yeah. Oh my God, Kris,  Yeah, it really is. And the other thing that happens so often is what I call the curse of knowledge. And that just means for any of us that have been in the industry for any amount of time, we forget what it's like to not know what we know. So it becomes really challenging to write in a clear way and to meet your customers where they are with the knowledge they have and not with the knowledge that you have.  Yes. I have a question for you. Just popped in my brain is something, I think I've been spending way too much time on TikTok and Instagram these days, but I've been seeing this trend, and I know this is not necessarily in the case of Instagram, it is copy in that it is in the caption perhaps, but there's a lot of things going around I think about influencing or things people don't like or things you shouldn't do or five things you should never do at your wedding. And from a copywriter's perspective, how do you feel about that sort of skewed negative language? Is it helpful to sell?  Yeah, there is a strategy behind that. I mean, our brains are really wired to constantly scan our environment to figure out how to help us survive and thrive. And right along with that is we're scanning our environment to figure out how to avoid failure. And people want help. They really do want help, but more than wanting help, they want to avoid failure. And so that's why that's happening a lot on social media.  Yeah, I find it, on one hand, I agree that there's something compelling about it, right? There's something that makes me want to watch it. But then I also think for the greater good of entrepreneurship, I just see too many wedding pros being like, planners five things you should never do at your wedding. And I'm like, I guess, but also, aren't you alienating some people who just want help? And doesn't it kind of make you seem like a big old bitch if you're like, I would never do baby's breath. And it's like, I mean, maybe you wouldn't, but is that really putting our best foot forward now guys? I don't know. I'm of two minds about it. I haven't seen anything like that so much on people's websites, but it just feels like it's super common right now just in the ether and the internet.  Yeah, I mean, I'm a big fan of just optimism, being  And making the world a better place by helping other people. And I also think that there is a way to do that if you're really wanting to help people. There is advice that you can give them to help them avoid frustration or save time. So I think it's kind of all in the energy that you do it with. If you're trying to shock people or just be a Debbie Downer, no, it's not a good route to take. But I think if it really like the idea around never use baby's breath. Well, some people might love baby's breath, and so that really becomes insulting. But it might be three ways to know you're hiring the right wedding coordinator. So that advice to that might be you really want to do here are three questions that you want to ask any wedding coordinator that you might be interviewing. So you really do want to help them find the right fit for them, even if it's not you.  And maybe the language is just five alternatives to baby's breath, my five favorite alternatives to baby's Breath. You know what it is for me, I think I just figured it out, Kris, it's a lack of creativity. It feels to me like the lowest common denominator to just be like, I don't like this. And it's like, okay, well great. Tell me something useful. That's kind of how I feel about it.  Totally, totally. And I think a lot of times, back to your original point was that oftentimes when we're coming up with content, we just look at what other people are doing and kind of emulate it rather than sticking to what feels right for you. And I think that would probably change the way social media is done, but it's really hard not to do  It is really hard. So Kris, we've talked about the DIY, we've talked about hiring potentially someone who means well but does not have a voice down. You are advocating for something I would imagine sort of in the middle is kind of your approach. Can you walk us through, I know you gave us a high overview, but what is it like to work with you on copy? Is it a one day experience? How does it work?  So the whole experience takes two and a half hours total, and then your website copy is done. That's  It is bananas and it is so much fun, not only for me, but it's really fun for my clients. So essentially I have a program called Copy that sells. It's not a program. I don't know why I said that. It's a one-on-one service. Love it. I work directly with my clients. There's no group involved. So I work one-on-one because you have your own unique voice and I really dive deep into everything about your business. So I basically extract all those incredible nuggets of information that allow me to tell your story. And so there are some videos that you watch, they're only five minutes long, and I ask you pointed questions that you just fill into a worksheet and then I take your answers and I write your wireframe. And a wireframe is just a roadmap for your site detailing all the headlines, all the body copy, where the buttons go, where the images go, every word on your website. It's all there. But I wouldn't say it's definitely not a fully designed website. It's a wireframe for your website.  It's very helpful. I actually loved, I had a sales page page written by a StoryBrand guide, and when I received the copy, I was like, oh, this is very easy to just put into preexisting. I mean, for me, I know how to write a sales page, but it was very cool to be like, oh, I actually don't have a lot of other brain work to do here.  No, it's really turnkey. And so I write that wireframe for you so you don't have to sit there in frustration trying to figure it out yourself. And then we get onto our 90 minute collaboration call, and I walk you through the wireframe and my thinking and the strategy behind every single word on the page. And then we go back through each section and just really make sure it's aligned not only with your voice, but your unique clientele better than anybody else. And so we want to make sure that it's really speaking to them, resonating with them, and that by the time they've scrolled through your page that they are going to book a consult with you immediately. And so then that is the whole 2.5 hour process. It's kind of an hour of prep work on your part and then 90 minute call with me. And then you take your wire frame that we've collaborated on together and you copy and paste that into your website. You let me know when it's done, and then I do a loom recording after the fact just going through the new page and giving you my feedback. Not only on, I mean the copy doesn't really change, but I give you feedback on fonts, colors, layout, flow. Oh, that's great.  Yeah, I kind of put my design hat on at that point and give you feedback just to make sure that you're looking like a total  Love it. That's a little bit of extra I hadn't heard other people do. I love it.  It's a little extra from Kris. I love it. And so if someone's interested in working with you in this way, what's the lead time? Is it a quick process? Do you have to book you out months in advance?  Yeah, I'm typically about three to four weeks out. So right now anyway, I'm three to four weeks out. At any given time, it could be more than that, but I like to allow at least a week for you to kind of take your time with intake portion of it. But yeah, it happens really quickly. And I love the work. It's such a blast and it's such a relief for my clients to just check that mofo off of their to-do  List. I mean, listen, I know people who've been struggling to get their websites finished for a year now, if you're listening, you know who I'm talking about. I'm not going to say your name, but maybe you need to give Kris a call and just get that. I think it's a nice little adrenaline push too to be like, okay, someone's working very quickly for me. I can also work a little more quickly. I think we need these people that help us push the boulder up the hill, for lack of a better phrase,  Right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think back to that bottle effect, you need somebody to give you perspective and to hold your hand and also to do the heavy lifting for you. And then the copy itself does the heavy lifting for you. So it's selling for you, and all you have to do is get on those consult calls, but the copy is really set up that your clients won't have a lot of questions. They're just going to want to book a call with you. They're already excited to work with you. They already know you're the right fit for them. They just want to book a call and figure out how to move forward from there. So it just is kind of like, it just is a major time saver. The other thing about the wireframe, the feedback that I keep getting time and time again, is that once you've got your wireframe, you've really got the language that you're going to need for all your other marketing materials. So you're going to have that wireframe. And when you need to do a social post or when you need to write an email or when you need to create a little bio for social media, you just go to the wireframe and you copy and paste from that. That is like your brand or your offer, copy Bible.  Yes. That's very true. That's extremely true. And I will say this for everyone listening, Kris and I have not worked together yet, but like I said, I have another StoryBrand. I have a sales page. And what's funny about when I did my end of year audit last year, the most frequently purchased course is the course that has the StoryBrand sales page.  Yeah. I mean, I am really blown away by it. I've been in the industry, like I said, 20 years, but I really started leveraging the power of story in all my projects in 2017. I have yet to find an industry or a business that isn't completely transformed once I implement this framework. And it's really about a lot of it's just, yes, it's about storytelling, but it's also about psychology and how our brains are wired  So much about psychology. Well, Kris, I think you've given people a lot to think about, which I always love. If you want to get ahold of Kris, Kris, where can people find you on the internet?  Go to red door designs.com. That's Red door with two Ds, and then designs with an S at the end, red door designs.com. And there you can learn about all the different ways to engage with me. But there's a great really valuable free beyond there that walks you through the fundamentals of story and shows you how to write compelling copy in five minutes. And then you'll also see on there my offer for StoryBrand copy that sells in two and a half hours flat.  I love it. I love compelling copy in five minutes. You guys, you can do that while you're making breakfast. You can do that while you're waiting in line of the grocery. You can do it anywhere. Five minutes is amazing. Love it. We're going to link to all that in the show notes. Kris, thank you so much. I love talking about copy. It's one of those super unsexy things that when you get into entrepreneurship, you're like you said earlier, you're like, I guess I have to learn how to do that, but you really have to learn how to do that.  Yeah, you really do. And the beautiful thing is, once you learn how, or once you understand some of the basics of how to tell a story, it's not as hard to write your own copy. And the other thing is, once you do it, then you're done with it and you can carry on and focus on the work that you love.  Absolutely. Kris, thank you so much for spending your time with us today. We so appreciate it.  I had the best time with you, Renee. Thank you for having me.  Well, thanks for being here. And friends, you know what I'm going to say, thank you so much for spending your time with us, because I know that your time is the one thing you cannot make any more of. So go out there and either work with Kris to write some copy or write your own compelling copy, and we'll see you next week. Friends, same time, same place. Bye for now.  Thanks for listening to Talk with Renee DLow. Dive into the show notes at renee dlow.com/podcast and connect with Renee at Talk with Renee DLow on Instagram.  Today we discuss Miro. Today I want to talk about the hellscape that is technical diagramming, right? Everybody's nodding their heads right now, and there is a potential solution that I want to share. There was one name that several people brought up. I did some digging, and it's kind of nuts how much this program Miro has for developers. I have to share this. It could potentially be a game changer for you. So my favorite part about Miro is that half the work is already done. Right now, typically we spend hours starting diagrams from scratch gathering information. You get buy-in from every team. That's a lot of work to do. But Miro has a full set of integrations with the tools you're probably already using. And they also offer open APIs and SDKs for custom solutions for all those niche diagramming use cases we have to do. So the end result is the same, but it doesn't take forever. It's a massive, massive time saver. I'm transforming basic flowcharts and network architectures, and it all lives in one place. So are you using Miro? Have you used it? I want to hear. That's MIR o.com. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/creative-chats ### Title: Getting Off the Hamster Wheel of the 9 to 5, with Mike Brennan and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5031120 ### Content: ## Getting Off the Hamster Wheel of the 9 to 5 ## Creative Chats with Mike Brennan, and Kris Jones Getting Off the Hamster Wheel of the 9 to 5, with Mike Brennan and Kris Jones **Is your website too wordy and not pulling potential clients into a story?** In my recent conversation with Mike Brennan, we ventured into the art of copywriting and storytelling.  This episode is full of insights to help you get farther faster. **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn powerful strategies to transform the way you talk about what you do. ? Discover insights on building meaningful connections with your audience without feeling overwhelmed. ? Explore the intersection of creativity and business and how they fuel each other for better results. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. And then the workshop ended and I had literally a line of people lined up wanting to get my information and work with me. And I don't say that because, well, I'm so great or in demand. I say that because that's the power of effective storytelling. When you're clear and you clearly show the result that you provide for people, they want to work with you. Welcome friends to another episode of Creative Chats. It's the podcast for artist makers and content creators where we talk about creativity, the creative process and story. I'm your host, Mike Brennan. You can connect with me over on Instagram. I'm at Mike Bone or on my website, which is mike brennan.me. Hey, I'd love for you to stop by daily creative habit.com. I've created several resources with you in mind as a creative person. First, there's a link to our free private Facebook group called Daily Creative Habit. It is filled with creatives of all types who have raised their hands to say, I want to show up more consistently for my creativity and craft. And so if that's you, we would love to see you as part of this group. There's also a link to receive our free Daily Creative Habit email newsletter. This goes out twice a week and is filled with resources and inspiration and daily prompts for you as a creative person to make sure that you keep showing up every single day for your creativity. And lastly, there's a link out to the new Daily Creative Habit Guided Creativity Journal. And this is something that I'm really excited about because it's a 90 day journey that you can go on that guides you to plan and show up for your creativity and help you track and help you measure and figure out exactly what it is that you want to do and how you want to do it. This is available right now through amazon.com. So I had a delightful conversation with Kris Jones from Red Door Designs, and sometimes you're in the middle of your journey and you can't see from inside of it. You can't see where you're going, you can't see maybe where you need to go. And so it can be a little frustrating to not have that clarity. And I love that the conversation I had today with Kris, we explore her journey, what that looked like from just finding her passion, pursuing it, getting the right people around her, pursuing opportunities that ultimately led to work with companies like Nike and Adidas and Jeff Bezos. I mean, her client roster is impressive, but even more so is her desire to follow her that unlocked the next part of her journey, and she continues to do that. We talk about the struggles and the advantages of owning your own creative business and the importance of leveling up by surrounding yourselves with people who are excellent at what they do. And it's important to have that kind of community, that kind of colleague relationship with people. Whatever industry you may be in, or even if you're a hobbyist or someone who's pursuing your creativity for your own pleasure, I think surrounding yourself with people who make you better is tremendous. And so we talk about all those things weaved into her story, her experiences. I love that we had this great conversation centered around creativity. So without further ado, here is my creative chat with Kris Jones. Well, Kris, welcome to the Creative Chats podcast. Thanks for being here today. Yes. And so before we actually started recording, we're talking just about so many of the great things that you're involved in and just your creativity. I can't wait to dive more into your story and your journey and find out just what that has looked like leading you up to where you are today. But before we get too far down the road there, why don't you give the little soundbite of who you are, what you do? Okay. My name is Kris, as you know. I have a boutique firm in Portland, Oregon, and I help self-employed people, craft a clear message so they can focus on the work that they love and make money doing it. Love it, love it. Very clear, very concise, which is part of your deal. If you didn't have that in line and you're telling you're helping other people with that, that wouldn't be too great. I guess you'd be surprised at how many people out there really are stuck in an unclear place, and even people who would love to help other people or maybe are helping other people. And yet, it's that thing where when you go to do it for other people, it's easy, but when you do it for yourself, all of a sudden you get in your own way. It becomes very difficult. And at times there's too much emotion involved or too many pieces to sort through. And so I love that you're helping people do this and that you've done it for yourself, obviously. And I'm loving where this is going already, so Me too. Yeah, it's so true. It's that bottle effect where you're inside the bottle and you can't get perspective to read the bottle. It's true for all of us. So I love letting people off the hook around that because it's not you. Everybody struggles with talking about themselves in a clear and compelling way. Yeah. So it's no one's deficient in that. It's just really hard to do. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious, this isn't probably something that you thought when you were a kid where you're like, I know what I want to do. I want to help people with their messaging and things like that. So let's dial things back to Kris as a kid. And how did creativity show up for you then? Was it the normal drawing or writing or just playing with certain games or toys that helped foster creativity fill us in on? Where did the origins start? Yeah, I mean, so early, I think for all creatives, it's like we don't know what it's like to not be creative. So it started for sure, early withdrawing, and then I started making three-dimensional objects. I would make a purse out of paper, and then I would make three dimensional items that would go into that purse and I would color them, and then I'd tape them and I'd have lipstick and copying my mom's purse basically. And I loved doing things like that. I loved watching a transformation. I would even just take dirty coins and polish them. I loved watching something kind of, gosh, I haven't talked about this in maybe ever, but watching, transforming something from kind of tarnished to really beautiful and shiny. And then as I got a little bit older, I would just lose myself in creative projects. I went to a birthday party one time, and my name is Kris. So the mother of the child gave me a cookie, and it was in the shape of a letter K, and everybody got a cookie with their at first initial on it. Well, our job was to decorate the cookie. And so I was obsessed with that. The whole party went on, people went on to do, pin the tail on the donkey and go outside for a scavenger hunt. I was at the table decorating my letter K with sprinkles and frosting. And I think in hindsight, that was kind of in a way kind of profound. It's like my first love of design and typography, and that continued. It took me a while to get that, but it started really early. And then the other thing that I did often was figure out ways to make money. So that entrepreneurial piece came in very, very early, like age seven or eight. Somehow I talked my mom into getting business cards printed. So I had a company called Kristen's Crafts, and it had little rainbow balloon border on it. And I did two things that I remember. I went around and I picked flowers, and then I smooshed them up and made perfume really ugly, horrible colored perfume. And then I would go door to door and try and sell it to some neighbor. That felt bad for me. And then the other thing I would do is I would take my paint pens and I would decorate just random objects like a toothbrush. I'd buy a bunch of toothbrushes, and then I'd decorate them with paint pens, and then I'd go around and sell thoses, which is just ridiculous. But it was my first introduction to like, well, I can make something for pretty much nothing and get money. Earn money with it. Yeah, I love asking that question because so often there are clues to where somebody is now if they've been able to tap into that. And so that whole thing, you mentioned the word transformation and taking some things and taking pieces of things and making something new or using them as ingredients and designing something. And so much of that goes into what you do now in the copywriting and the website putting together for people. So it's interesting because so often we're just trying to reclaim some things that we used to do when we were kids in some form or fashion. Yeah, it's really validating. It's really validating. And when I talk about it now, it feels so obvious, but all through my college years, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I didn't even know graphic design was a profession or design or marketing or anything. I just thought, oh, I'll pick from the 15 options available at my college and ended up graduating with a degree in education. But I knew I didn't want to do that. And so yeah, I was stumped. Even with all these stories that I'm sharing was still like, what should I do for my profession? We have to think that the creative part has to be separate from the work that we do, And often when we're in the middle of it, we just can't see because we're too close to it. Even the other things we talked about before, it's something that when you look back and then you can find some dots to connect and you have to reapply a different skin to it. So it's like, well, what is making a paper person some paper items that's not going to career? I can't make money from that, but it planted the seeds and it grew into something else. And then maybe there was a process even that started back then, or just your telling of your first entrepreneurial endeavor. It taught you something. And that grew into something larger, obviously, but it was the starting place and it needed to find a place to go into the ground then so it could sprout up. And so when we look at these things now, the hindsight, right? It's 2020, but in the middle of it, it can be a little daunting and discouraging and a lot of questions. Right? Yeah. So let me ask, you said you graduated with a degree in education, so how did you then make the shift or what happened? Tell us now the next part of the story, because obviously that's not where you are now. Right? Right. So I think the best thing that I did was graduate with a degree that I knew I wasn't interested in and to buy myself time. I just took off to Europe and I traveled all through Europe, just backpacking, and I just was like, oh, God. In the back of my mind, I'm like, I've got to figure out what I want to do and I'll just keep traveling until it kind of clicks. And that was number one. It was so much fun. I ended up, I traveled all over the place, but I ended up landing on the southern coast of Turkey, and I fell in love with that place, and I witnessed a different way to live there. It was just a very active town with a lot of paragliding and outdoor sports and just a totally different way of life. And also the European influence. My mind blew open around how other people live as Americans, we kind of get into this hamster wheel of like, oh, this is what I have to do because this is what everybody does. But in Turkey, it was a seasonal town, so people would come in for spring and summer and part of fall, and then they'd travel for the winter, and then they'd come back. And so I was just like, oh, this is possible. And so that really opened up something in me. The other really important thing that happened was I became really good friends with a lot of other travelers, and two of which were graphic designers. So we would hang out. We hung out all the time, and they would talk about their work, and they were both Australians. And one of 'em came back to Portland with me at one point, and we went to Powell's books, which maybe people have heard of, and she bought all these books on design. So it just continued to open up my awareness about this as a career. And then shortly thereafter, I signed up for some classes at the local community college and was completely minute one of class number one. I was like, ah, yes, this is it. And I was only, I think 23 ish at the time. So I was still young, but, and so I spent a couple years really going deep into the learning of all that, but that's how it began. Gotcha. Yeah. So I love that you used the word possibilities, because that's something that travel and being introduced to other people who have different experiences than you starts to open your eyes and go, yeah, what's possible. Maybe you're not happy with the situation you're in. Maybe there's something different that you think could be out there. And just to come face to face with that and go, what's possible and what can that look like for me? I love that that made you get curious and follow that curiosity. So often I think it's at that crossroads where we find ourselves going, okay, do I follow my curiosity? And if I do, I need to be open to what that looks like, what comes next? And it may not be what we think. It may not. We may not even have a picture of what comes next, but we just go, okay, take the right next step. And it's evident from your journey that that's what you did. You continue to lean in, be curious, follow the right next steps. And so you go to school for this, you're taking classes for this, and then you graduate, and do you go to work for a company? Do you automatically go out on your own? What does that look like? And what fed into your decisions there? Yeah, I got about a year into school. I got an internship, which I just think is the best invention ever. Everybody should do internships because you get to practice and learn about what you like, what you don't like, what you're good at. And anyway, I got this wonderful internship with a guy who became a mentor to me. Keith is his name, and he just really saw potential in me and hired me for eight 50 an hour, but still I was like, I'm getting paid to do this. I can't even believe it. And I was so grateful and I learned so much. And then eventually I got hired into more traditional ad agency that was a design firm. And then I got hired into a traditional ad agency as an art director, and I got my own office. So I felt like a real big girl, a real adult. And I spent a couple years doing that and just kind of understanding what that means. The culture that I was in was very micromanaged. It felt like kind of a little bit. I loved it. I loved the work. But after a couple years, I was like, oh my gosh. It really was clear to me that it was time to step out on my own. And so I jumped off that ledge and kind of started freelancing essentially, and thinking like, oh, I'll freelance for a while and then see what comes next. And then it just kept working out. So at the beginning though, I would walk, I rented an office, I'd walk to my office and I would have no work. I would organize my fonts and do random stuff. And then I think a year later I got a job offer from a company called Taylor made out of San Diego, and I just kind of did the math, and that was my first reality hit of like, oh, this freelance thing is actually able to pay me more than a full-time job, and I'm not having to work like, okay, clear choice, I'm going to keep going. So yeah, that was really the beginning of Red Door Designs. It's been 20 years, which is insane. So I'm going to present you with a question that I'm sure some people listening, they're thinking themselves. Okay. So you start out on your own. In the beginning you see you go to the office, and there's really not much happening in there, organizing fonts. I so appreciate that. And that can certainly take a long time. As designers, we love fonts, but I'm wondering, what did you have to do to find clients and how did you find clients? Right? Because so many people, that's what they fear, that they're going to either jump ship from where they are and start their new thing to early maybe, and not have a clientele built up or that clientele. Maybe it dries up because there's so many one-off projects and there's nothing reoccurring happening. And so can you speak into that as far as your experiences and maybe some advice for somebody who's listening? Yeah. Yeah. So in the jobs that I had been in, I did a lot of printing. This was back when everything was printed, and I developed really great relationships with my vendors. So the printing companies that I worked with, I got to know them actually. We still worked together. And one of the reps, the print reps gave my name to another ad agency owner, and that agency called me. They were looking for an ongoing freelance, a partner. And so that really, really helped transition me into a situation where I had work that I could rely on because they needed me two days a week. I had this kind of base cushion that I just took the pressure off and took the fear out of the scarcity around, I need a client right now. I'll charge you half price and all that. So I just knew that two days a week I had regular work and the agency, because they worked with, I don't know, probably 10 ish clients, there was just always something to do. So I got to continue to learn, and thank God they came into my life. That really allowed me to feel into and experience what it's like to be a freelancer with regular work. But it's really helpful to have a client like that that isn't just doing one thing. So yeah, that's not happening. I'm sure. I'm sure. Did that elevate the quality of clients that you had that you're working on in a certain type of projects? Because then you're not just reaching for, oh, my mom knows somebody who's in this club and needs a whatever. You want to be able to make sure that you're doing things that look professional, that have a certain attraction to even more types of clients that you want to attract in certain industries. So did that factor into what was happening outside your specific freelance agency work? Oh, completely. Completely. Because I was not only building my portfolio, but I was building my confidence. And then Portland, most people know this, but Portland is where Nike lives, it's where the headquarters is and also where Adidas is. So what happened was I ended up getting some Nike projects, and then having Nike in my portfolio really elevated things for me, and then kind of the snowball effect. So more and more work started coming my way, and then it got to the point where I didn't really have time to work with the agency two days a week. It was still kind of available for them, but I just recalibrated everything. So yes, a hundred percent, just little by little things started to elevate for me, and more opportunities came around, more connections were made. And then really Nike became a client of mine ongoing for well over a decade, maybe longer. And when you're working, I ended up for a while working in-house at Nike. And it was funny because I've grown up in Portland, so I'm like, Nike, I know it's an impressive company, but anything, when you grow up around it, you're like, yeah, it's not that big of a deal. But when I worked in-house at Nike and recognized that they were all the designers that were in my group had moved from other countries from all over the world, and these were the best of the best, most talented designers in the world. I'm not saying that I was, but I'm saying that I was around people at that caliber and that quickly, I think my skill level kind of elevated from that. It's the power of proximity of a community of people when you are pushing each other to do your best. And yes, the caliber of work and the skill level, the excellence that's required is very different than if you were just simply on your own doing your own thing. You're kind of doing things in a vacuum. And so to have that ability, if people ask me, it's like, is it important to go to art school? What do you think? What's your opinion? And that's always a loaded question, especially these days. But I said, one of the things that I loved about going to art school was that just that it gave me an environment to be in where people were bringing their best. You had to be performing at a certain level or you just were not going to make it. And so that competition, that edge, that whatever you want to call it, that helped you rise to a certain level. And that's really one of the benefits of being in an environment like that. And the fact that now you have as one of your clients, and it's clearly on your website of like, yes, I've worked with Nike and you've mentioned Adidas and even Jeff Bezos. I mean people hearing that, I'm sure going, how do you even land clients like that? I'm here trying to do my thing and maybe I don't have the connections. And what would you say to people in that situation where they're like, maybe they have aspirations to raise the bar on their clientele and the type of work that they do, but they're going, I don't really know where to go for that on my own. What suggestion would you be other than to go work for somebody else who has that as a client for some period of time? Yeah, I mean, one way to get your foot in the door, and this is what I did with Guinness, was I called the temp agency, the creative temp agency that they work with, and they were able to get me work with Guinness in that way. So all the big companies, they need all kinds of creative help, and so much so that they often partner with a creative temp agency to manage all that. And if you can get in with that agency, then you can eventually get in with that larger kind of brand new company. So that's one way that I think isn't always well known. The Jeff Bezos thing was kind of random. I mean, that was, a college friend of mine had a husband who worked with Jeff Bezos, and they were doing the branding for his nonprofit, which was this beautiful vision for free Montessori education for underprivileged, low-income families. And so that was through relationships, and I think that's probably the most common answer is just relationships. And even the ones that you don't expect, that tends to always be a go-to, for how to build work. Of course, you have to do great work. You have to show that you have the skill and the talent and the drive, because too many people, I think they want something handed to them and think, well, people will just come to me and I'll just do my thing. And there's a level of just professionalism and excellence that you need to present to say, yeah, if you're going to trust me by hiring me to do a job for you to partner with you in this way, I want you to know that you can, in fact, trust me to do that, Right? Number one, I mean, if you can finish the job and everyone's happy, and most importantly, you can remember to invoice after you've delivered the job, which can be hard for us creatives, it's like, ah, the billing part, gross. I hate that part. But yeah, I think keeping it simple with that and delivering, I think that's half the battle, just delivering the end result and making sure everyone's happy. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious because this is, you're in this day to day and you've been in this for so long, I'm sure that things kind of morph and change over time and you like everyone, you want to branch out and do some next things and new things. How has that evolution looked for you and what have been the things that you've found either have been the wrong thing to pursue and you've just been like, yeah, I'm not really sure that this was the right place to go, or you were like, this was definitely the great thing for me to do because now I've unlocked something that becomes part of my income stream now as well. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, definitely. Well, in 2000, maybe 11 ish, I started getting more and more into web design. So I had done branding, logo design and branding for a long time and just fundamental general graphic design. And then I started to get more and more into website work, and that kind of expanded my offerings. And thankfully I did do that because I mean, it's the majority of what I do now in a way. And what happened was though, I get these clients, they're ready to do a website with me, and then I would say, okay, your website copy is due on let's say June 1st, and then we're going to start the website design phase June 3rd. And then they'd call and they'd say, ah, I can't get my copy done. The deadline moves, can't get my copy done, deadline moves, can't get my copy done. Deadline moves. It's so painful. And I watched that happen so many times and I struggled with it myself. I had a website, but it was more about, it was a beautiful website. There was no strategic messaging on, there was a lot of visuals. It was back in that day, it was like a flash website, as you remember, So anyway, it moves and all that. So basically I was like, okay, I'm going to figure out this problem. I hired a handful of writers and I still wasn't getting the simplicity that I like to go for. I'm a very minimalist when it comes to design and copy, and I really wanted to make sure that the copy was strategic, and I don't know what I I was looking for, so I couldn't decipher if it was strategic or not. And so in 2017, I ended up going to a StoryBrand workshop. This is way back before building a StoryBrand. The book was ever written, and Donald Miller took his whole team up to Portland and they did a two day workshop up here. And so I learned the framework and I thought, okay, this is really going to help my clients because now I can give them guidance and I can even do the copy for them if they need help with that. But what was really, really cool was that after day one, I came home, I took everything that I learned and I applied it to my website. Day two, I raised my hand and had Donald Miller review my website, the new one that I had just done the night before and or revised the night before. And we went through it was really applying all those components of story, and then the workshop ended and I had literally a line of people lined up wanting to get my information and work with me, with me. And I don't say that because, well, I'm so great or in demand. I say that because that's the power of effective storytelling. When you're clear and you clearly show the result that you provide for people, they want to work with you. And so I had many aha moments about it as I started to implement more and more copy. But what happened was ultimately is I continued to expand my offering. So instead of just doing branding and then branding and website, now I'm doing branding, website and copy strategy. And I just for many years, just blown away by the power of storytelling on a website, what it can do to grow your business. And now I don't even do the first two. I just focus on the copywriting because I found that's the best way I can move the needle for my clients and help them grow in the shortest amount of time. Yeah, that's an amazing evolution of things, and I love that you were stopping and assessing through the whole journey and going like, okay, where do I tweak? I mean, honestly, just even alone, going home after that first day and thinking, okay, I need to strip things away from my website and kind of redo it, that is such a daunting idea for people when you're so close to your own thing. And I always say to encourage people, websites are living things. It is not a set it, forget it. And those that are set it and forget it, you can tell because there are still some websites out there that are built with flash and all the things that we were talking about from a long time ago. It needs to be updated because, and then I think also the other thing too is that either you as a person or the services you provide or your business, you're not static. You are evolving. I mean, sure, you're still within the same industry and doing the same kind of thing, but you wanted to reflect who you are and what you do today. And so to be able to communicate that clearly and to get that validation of a line of people out the door after your workforce were reviewed, I mean, I think that must've been a tremendous moment for you to say, yeah, this is key here. I'm glad I did this right. So true. Yeah, that's so true. I really agree with you too about the website is really, it's almost like a child. It grows and develops as you grow and develop and you continue to refine it. You don't want to be tweaking your website all the time. You can go to that extreme too. It's like get it to a good point and then revisit it in a few months or six months. And even though I do this as my job, my business is growing and evolving as am I, and the website needs to come along for the ride. Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. The thing that I think so many times people think of these things like websites and social media and all the places of, here's where I tell people what I do, where they can find me. They're so busy on the actual thing that they're trying to build as far as their business or their idea or how they're applying their creativity, that stuff kind of is the competition in people's minds. It's like, oh, that's taking me away from the work that I really need to be doing, or it's distracting or I hate it because it's whatever. But I think when people can start to understand the broader context of why it's important and what its role and function is, and it's not there to take you away from the real thing that you should be doing and spending your time with, but rather communication and it's opening up conversations and relationships and opportunities when people start to come around it in that light, I think then the things that you do in that regard and the things that I do even in design as well, then those become valuable tools for people and they understand the context. Have you found that you've had to educate a lot of people through that process? And has there been resistance or have most people just trusted you to do what you do best? There's a lot of education involved. I think people are hungry to know what the heck to do or what the heck to say. And when I create the copy for them, half of my job is educating them on the why behind what I'm doing. And they love it because they understand the strategy and they finally know how to do it for themselves. So it's great they get their copy done for them, but it's a collaborative approach so I can teach them how it's done, and then the next time they need to write something, they know the skill. So it's really fun. It's fun to see those light bulbs go off in people's brains and for them to feel empowered around how to write for their own business because I mean, most of us don't enjoy doing that. And when you can take the edge off it and make it feel easier and also kind of fun because when you know what to say, it can be fun, then everything changes for your business also, when you have clarity around what you do. The other thing I just want to mention here is just when you do have clarity around what you do, you do that work to craft a very clear, concise story. You don't ever have to really do that again. You can keep using that same narrative over and over and over again. And that's actually a good thing. It's number one, it's less work for you. But number two, that repetition is what ends up building trust and helping you be remembered by other people. So it's a win-win, and then in a year you can revisit it and make sure it's still really aligned with you. It's also a living, breathing thing, but it does keep you from spinning your wheels with things and getting stuck in the weeds. Yeah, and that's an important point that you bring up too, as far as the clarity piece of it being, it's not simply just content in terms of deliverable. It's content that's actually aligned with purpose, and with that comes the alignment and clarity. So I think when that deeper work is done, that is for lack of a better word, script that you use often to refer to this is who I am, this is what I do, this is why I do it, how I do it. And so it's much more than just, Hey, I need some sales copy. Hey, I need an about me page. Hey, I need whatever the deliverable is. And I think that's where too there's there's room for education for people. Because so often the thing that's driving it is the deliverable. This is my need. This is what somebody told me I'm supposed to have on a website. I would run into that problem and sometimes still do, where someone will say, Hey, I need a logo. Hey, I need to print some postcards or whatever the end result is. And yet I go, okay, well let's put a pin in that for a minute. Let's talk a broader conversation and find out Y why do you think you need this and what is the point of this? Because sometimes through talking about that, the conversation goes someplace else and you're like, no, actually what you need is X instead of Y. And they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't even think about that. I didn't even see that. And so we have that opportunity to step into that gap and help somebody through that, which I think is a tremendous responsibility and privilege. Completely, completely. I mean, most people that are self-employed or employed, we're all kind of trying to figure it out as we go. And so when you've watched a lot of people and helped a lot of people over the years, it's such an honor and a gift for them too, to get steered in the right direction. We can waste so much time and so much money on things that what is the real end result you're looking for? And maybe there's a quicker, better, easier way to get there. Yeah, For sure. I'd love to ask you a question in regards to now even your own personal creativity, because as someone who uses your creativity for your job, your career, and is using it all day long for someone else, have you struggled or maybe do you struggle with this place where creativity is still your own, where you're making something simply because either it brings you joy or because it's a place to play that If that has a place in your life, what does that look like right now for you? Well, I love that question. And honestly, I want more creative play for myself in my life. I'm a single mom with a five-year-old kiddo. So there's lots of opportunity with him to be creative. And also yesterday he was painting a wooden heart and then, yeah, anyways, painting this wooden heart. And I was like, I don't want to do that. I really want to do that. But I was needing to make lunch and do a couple other things. And so I left it out because I was like, oh, and he's in the bath later. I'm going to paint that heart. So I think when you're parenting, you've got to take advantage of those little tiny windows, even if it's 10 minutes to play and be creative and create something. And I also think one of the reasons why I find my work fulfilling is because I am self-employed, and so I'm always doing creative work for my own business. So that feels in a way really fulfilling to me, and I get to play around and create whatever I want. There's nobody to give me the thumbs up or thumbs down. I'm running some Facebook ads right now, and one of 'em I think is hilarious. It's just me goofing off taking a selfie at the end of a workday. I mean, it was just a funny photo, but I'm like, we'll, just see what happens. And of course, it's doing the best compared to all the other really polished I design. Totally. So yeah, I think that's a big reason why I love the freedom of being self-employed is because I have to create things for my own self. And I think sometimes we forget that beyond projects and beyond pursuing interests, the thing that we're actually creating is a life, right? I mean, we're creating something that hopefully is reflecting the things that are important to us, the people that are important to us, where we want to spend the majority of our time, energy, and effort so that we can have some kind of impact and know that we've done something right with our time ourselves. We've contributed in some way larger than ourselves, and we get the opportunity when you're self-employed, and even if you're not, the time that you have, if that's important to you, I think you figure out how to do that because it's top of mind. This is really what I'm doing. I'm not existing. I'm not waiting until I retire to do X, Y, and Z. I'm not simply just in the hamster wheel my whole life. I'm being proactive and I'm creating with my time, my presence, my right. I mean, that's a huge thing. That is so beautiful. You need to create an audiogram of that last paragraph. So beautiful. Yes. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, we are creating a life. It is one aspect is it's multiple creative aspects of life. It's creative work, but how can you, in the bigger picture, create your life intentionally in a way that brings you meaning and joy and impact? And when we're creative, well, I'll just tell you a quick story because it's the opposite of being creative. I got a job one time, it was a temp job as a file clerk. I was filing a stack probably, I don't know, three feet high of triplicate, that triplicate paper. Yes, it's really thin. So it was a stack this high of triplicate paper, and I would take one piece, and then I'd go into this room that was all files, and I would find that patient, and it was the medical clinic. And then I'd stuff the paper into that folder, and my fingers started to get raw because the file folders were jammed in there so tight that you could barely pull him out and push him back in again. And so anyway, all that to say, it took me a day and a half or longer to get through that pile, and then they came out and brought another pile out, and I was like, are you kidding me? I literally thought I was going to die, and this is pre podcast, pre headphones, pre anything. It was just like me in this damn pile of triplicates. And I literally, it was torture for me. It was torture for me. And so that was obviously, it didn't last more than a few days there, and I had to bail. But I think that that was such an important thing that happened in my life because it showed me that I have no tolerance for fundamental boredom. And I had, in order to avoid that, I had to start being intentional about the work that I do and how I spend my days, because that was not an option for me. So I don't even remember why I started telling that story. But all that to say, yes, it's important to, as creatives, I think we're even more sensitive to living a life of intention and meaning and fulfillment, and it's our job to really feed and foster that creative side of ourselves in order to be healthy. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's so much more than just the actual work that we're doing. It's how we're showing up doing that work and who we are, and that's a journey and process in and of itself. But to know each day we have the opportunity and possibility that's before us, and to surround ourselves with people who encourage that and to have people, that's a community where you can talk about these things regularly so that we don't lose sight of it, I think is important too. Right. Yeah. So let me ask you one last question because unbelievably, we're at the top of our time already. I feel like when I get together with other creative people, and especially when there's that visual design aspect and things too, I could talk for days, but what is it maybe that you see as something you'd love to do? Maybe that's part of your business, or maybe that's even a personal creative expression, but something that you're like, this is something I would love to incorporate into my world, into my work, into my creativity. Well, the first thing that comes to mind is I think as a nod back to where this all began, I would love to take my son and move to another city and live life for a year, another country and live life for a year out of our comfort zone. Because for me, doing that opened up so many possibilities that I wouldn't have been open to here in my routine in our day-to-day to day in our day-to-Day routine. And so I think getting out of the comfort zone in and of itself is an act of creativity because we have to innovate. We look at things with fresh eyes. We experience meaning in a deeper way. We are able to really prioritize what's important to us, and it allows us, I think, to be even more intentional about what we do in our day and who're around who's important to us, who do we reach out to? And so that act has been so in my life. I wonder where I would be right now if I hadn't taken that year off to travel. And I want my kiddo to kind of, like you said, see the possibilities around the way other cultures live outside of the us. And not that we're doing things wrong here, but just like, let's look at the whole buffet. Let's look at the whole buffet and choose rather than just look at the one item. So I think that's the thing that I keep coming back to. I do have some fear around it, for sure. It's a totally different deal when you have a kid with you versus when you're doing it on your own, but I believe it's going to happen and I'm kind of inching my way in that direction. Nice. Nice. Well said. As far as even just the benefits of being able to move into that kind of space and that perspective. I think so. Yeah. I can't wait to hear what happens next. As far as introducing a creative thing, that is what comes next. The things that I'm looking at right now are really helping other people create whether they feel like they're creative or not. I believe everyone's creative, and so I want more of those conversations to happen where light bulbs start going off and people go, you know what? I want to actually act on these ideas that I have, the creativity that I have inside of me, because it's going to help them as a person. And then it's also going to create something that's going to help other people. And so whether that's in the context of their own personal creative journey or in the context of a corporation, I want to see more people showing up for their creativity, which is why I'm having these conversations. So all that to say, for me, it's creating more opportunities via speaking more, speaking on more stages and more podcasts, and any opportunity I get to connect with people through that to share my experiences and insights and the information that I have and some processes that I have creatively to again, just help other people because I want more of that ripple effect. I know that the things that I've been through, the things that are in my life aren't just for me, they're for other people. And so I want just more of that. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, you're doing it. That's great. Awesome. Well, as we wrap things up today, where can people go to find you? How can they follow you? If they would like to hire you to help them kind of bring some alignment and clarity around their messaging and their website, lay some links on us. If you want to learn how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat, you can go to Red Door Designs. That's R-E-D-D-O-O-R-D-E-S-I-G-N s.com. And pretty much everything that I do is right there on that page. I have a great freebie for you guys. And I also help people write their website copy in two and a half hours. And you can follow me on Instagram at Red Door Design with no S at the end. Okay. Got it. And we'll be sure to put that in the show notes so people can just simply click and follow along, and I can't wait to see what comes next for you. Kris, I want to thank you so much for our time today. It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Mike. I've had so much fun talking with you. Thanks for listening today. I'd appreciate if you would subscribe, leave a rating and a review. It really helps this podcast be seen and heard by others. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/crush-rush ### Title: How to Answer the Question, "What do you do?", with Holly Haynes and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5031215 ### Content: ## How to Answer the Question, "What do you do?" ## Crush the Rush Podcast, with Holly Haynes and Kris Jones How to Answer the Question, "What do you do?", with Holly Haynes and Kris Jones **Have you ever wondered how to make your business thrive without sacrificing your precious time?**  In my recent conversation with Holly Haynes, we discuss how to craft a compelling story… and its ability to accelerate your success…with LESS effort. **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn how to create an elevator pitch one-liner that captivates your audience and sets you apart. ? Uncover the 3 mistakes to avoid when telling your story on your website or sales page. ? Understand how to craft copy that effortlessly drives revenue 24/7. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Hi, I'm Holly, your host of the Crush the Rush podcast, and I'm going to teach you in just a few minutes every week how to build a full-time business on a part-time schedule. Together I built a six plus figure income business while working full-time in a little under two years and have since retired myself and my husband from the corporate world. Each week I'm going to be sharing tips and tricks on how you can do the same, and more importantly, create a schedule that works for you and your business. I started my first coaching business when my twins were just 18 months old, and while I was excited to start something new that I was passionate about, I was overwhelmed with how to make progress in such small pockets of time. The methods of working three to four hours a day and blocks of time didn't work, quite frankly because I didn't have it. So my mission is to share how you can put together your own business strategy and plan that works for you without giving up on your goals and still focusing on your priorities. I can't wait to help you grow your business and more importantly, celebrate that. Well-deserved time off. Let's get to the show.  Before we start this week's episode, I want to get back to the roots of why I started this podcast and that is to help you design your dream schedule, the schedule that's going to allow you to do everything you love and more without feeling the burnout, the overwhelm, and wondering why the heck you started your business in the first place. Hence is a name Crush the Rush. So how do you actually do that? Well, I truly believe that you can build your dream business on a part-time schedule. And how you do that is you prioritize what you really want, which I know you've heard before, but you have a daily routine that supports that. That's really, really simple. So instead of me just telling you that it worked, I actually created what I call our CEO Week framework. You can go to holly bri haynes.com/ceo week or dmm me CO week to download the exact schedule that you can follow to get more done in a day without overworking.  I'm talking down to the day and the hour of what to do and when to get your time back and see growth in your business. That's less than 10 hours a week. The best part is it is a hundred percent free and I am behind the scenes answering all your questions with daily prompts and action steps. This challenge will give you the focus and action you need to have a massive impact on your revenue and your schedule, while also creating the freedom and the automations that work when you don't or you don't want to. And I have the receipts to prove it. We've had over 3000 people take this challenge in the last two years, and that doesn't include all of you that have come back to take it a second, a third, a fourth, and a fifth time because you didn't start your business to work all the time. All you need to do is go to holly marie haynes.com/ceo week or dmm me CEO week to create your CEO Week schedule. This is an easy yes, it is free and a thousand percent guarantee you're going to see some improvement on day one. I will see you inside.  On this episode of the Crush the Rush podcast, we are answering the question, you all want to know the answer to what to do when somebody says, what do you do? And to do that, I have brought in Kris Jones, who is a StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Designs, mentored by the StoryBrand founder Donald Miller himself. And with over 20 years of experience and clients such as Nike under her belt, Kris has been able to achieve incredible transformations for her clients, including increasing revenue by 300% and charging and scaling from 30 K to 300 k months. I'm telling you this framework is one that you want to learn. Kris believes that story is the most effective way to grow your business, and she's extremely passionate about helping self-employed women like you and I get website copied that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. Inside this episode, we're going to talk about why it's important to share your story just in case you need a reminder, the exact framework of how to create your tagline and tell your story, and even some copywriting tips so that your website does the work for you while you sleep. This is an episode you don't want to miss.  Hi Kris. Welcome to the Crush the Rush podcast. It's so nice to have you today.  Yes, and we are digging into all things storytelling, but we were sort of chatting before. It's with a little bit of a twist to answer a question that I think we all struggle with. But before we sort of get into all the nuts and bolts of that, I would love for you to tell your story because it is such an amazing one and you have such an amazing background where you're bringing all this goodness to us today. So tell us a little bit about you and what you do.  Ah, thank you so much. So my name's Kris. I run a business called Red Door Designs in Portland, Oregon. I've been doing this work for 20 years under the umbrella of Red Door Design. So I founded it, gosh, 21 years ago now, which is crazy to think about. And yeah, I started out my career really heavily focused on graphic design and visual storytelling. And over the years what I learned was that unless you have the verbal story down pat and very clearly and very concisely, no graphic design is going to work for you unless you've got the storytelling as the foundation. So you've got clear and simple words to communicate what you do. That's really the key. So I really shifted my focus to be all about the words, all about the words that you use. What I found with my clients was time and time again, I would say, okay, you come up with the copy and then we'll kick off this design project after you've done that.  And they would be like, well, what do you want? How do I do that? And I'm like, oh, you've got this. You can do it. We're going to start the project on this date and you've got it. And then the date would get moved back, the date would get moved back. And so I just really recognized that the biggest challenge and the biggest headache and the biggest pain point for all my clients was the copywriting piece. So I just made it my mission to figure out how to do this in a simple way. So it wasn't so frustrating. And the reality is I understand the frustration and the headache of it because I've dealt with it myself for my own business. And so it was driven by this desire to help my clients, but it fundamentally helped me as well. And so I think one of my gifts is just around simplification and making things ridiculously simple. And I love that I get to do it with copywriting because people feel like it's such a hard thing to do. So it's great when people understand that there's a rhyme and a reason and there's a formula behind it, and there's all kinds of ways to be creative within the formula. But once you know the formula, you don't have to procrastinate with your copy anymore. It actually becomes fun because you know what to say and what people respond to. And a lot of it is about simple psychology.  Yeah, I love that. And I think we can all relate to the story of, Hey, it's time to write that sales page. If you're like me, you put it off to the weekend or the last possible date, and then you look at it and you're like, there's so much text. What the heck do I say? So I want to jump into a couple of just tactical tips, but can you just reiterate for us, I know we've all heard it, but why is it really important to tell a good story?  It is critical as somebody who is self-employed and wanting your business to grow and wanting to make money, it's critical to be telling stories for a lot of different reasons, but the most important reasons are because we're humans and we are wired for story. We've been sitting around the fireside from the beginning of time telling stories to each other, so we're really wired for them. The other thing is our brains find stories a hundred percent irresistible. We cannot help but be pulled in when we hear the beginning of a story. Our brains can't help but engage. And so if you use story in your business, how powerful is that? And then the third reason is because stories are 22 times more memorable than just facts. So a big part of being a business owner is about becoming memorable and helping people remember you. If you're in a crowded industry especially. And I mean, let's be honest, most industries are very crowded. So how do you stand out? How do you be memorable? You do it through storytelling.  Yeah, I love that. I think that's really important and I love a good fact because I feel like that's like, okay, I need to learn how to tell a story, but then how do I actually do that? And I know you mentioned that you're known for keeping it simple and really helping give us a framework for what that looks like. So if you were going to sit down and we were talking before, really answer the question when question your neighbor or someone in the elevator asks you, Kris, what do you do? How do you create the story that answers that question?  Well, the answer to that question is keep it really short and concise, number one, and you've got to create what people might call a tagline or a one-liner. Either way, it is the shortest type of story you can tell, and I'm going to walk you through how to do that. But the people that I work with often, they'll say, when people ask me what I do, I cringe, I freeze. I either go into way too much detail or I just skimm over it with a two word answer, and then we move on to something else. And so what I want for you is to not get stuck in that conundrum, and the process is actually beautifully simple. And so I'm just going to walk you through it here, but I don't want you to feel like you have to write all this down because this whole process is part of my freebie.  So later, I'll show you how to do that. It's at clarity with Kris.com, but there's a recording of how to do this if you kind of want to dig deeper into it. So every story that you've ever heard, or every movie that you've ever watched or book you've ever read begins with a hero that has a problem. That's how we begin the answer to that question. And then I'm going to tell you the formula first story, and then I'm going to show you how that translates into answering the question. What do you do? So every story begins with a hero who has a problem. Then about 20 minutes into the movie, that hero meets a guide who has a solution and a plan to solve the problem. And then toward the end of the movie, that hero finds success and avoids failure, but we keeps us engaged is we're not sure if that hero's going to find success or are they going to fail.  And so we can't disengage until we know the end of the story. So that's the fundamental formula of storytelling. Now, granted, I have simplified it in a big way, but that's what I love to do. So here's how that translates into answering that question. What do you do? So let's just pretend I was a parenting coach and someone said, Hey, what do you do? I would say, okay, how many toddler moms are overwhelmed because there aren't enough hours in the day to get it all done? I helped them change their relationship with time so they can parent with more joy, peace, and connection, and notice how short and sweet that is. But I haven't lost you at any step of the way that is the shortest story ever written right there. But the beauty of it is it contains everything that I just walked you through.  So it begins with a hero who has a problem. Many toddler moms feel overwhelmed because there aren't enough hours in the day to get it all done. That is a problem. You've identified who your hero is and you've identified the struggle or the problem that they're dealing with. And then part two is you position your service as the solution, and that shows that you are the guide here in this story. So I help them change their relationship with time. That sentence right there shows I am the guide and this is my solution. My solution is I help them change their relationship with time. And then the third part of every story is that hero finds success. And so that's our job as the guide and the story is to show them what success looks like. And in this example I'm sharing so they can parent with more joy, peace, and connection.  So I'm going to repeat the whole thing again, just so you can kind of digest it and dissect it. So many toddler moms feel overwhelmed because there aren't enough hours in the day to get it all done. I help them change their relationship with time so they can parent with more joy, peace, and connection. How great if you're at a cocktail party or you're at a coffee shop and you asked somebody that question and they answered you in that way, you'd say, oh, tell me more. It would be the beginning of a very rich and fruitful conversation and way more enjoyable for both people, whether they're your ideal client or not. It's just makes socializing way easier. And if they're your ideal client, then they're like, immediately, you've got your stuff together. You know how to solve my problems, sign me up.  Yeah, I think anyone listening is like, oh my God, can you please just write that for me? I feel like it's so hard to write it for yourself, but I think another one of the mistakes, at least that I see in that has been interesting as we sort of build out actual written copy and website copy is it's one thing to communicate it in person, but it's another thing to also communicate it on a page. So what are some of the maybe mistakes or lessons learned that you see when somebody's trying to tell their story, let's say on their website or a sales page?  Well, I want to tell you a little secret, and this'll let you off the hook in a big way. So good copy is actually conversational copy. So if you feel comfortable saying it out loud, then put it on your website the way that you would say it. I think it's so refreshing to go to a website and feel like you're actually having coffee with the person who wrote that website because they're casual, they're conversational. So I would say don't write any differently than you would speak this to people. That's why this process is so powerful is that you write it and you practice saying it out loud, but they're kind of one and the same. So I would say one of the mistakes that people make, I'm going to say a few mistakes that I see commonly. Number one is just people make their copy too formal.  We want to keep it very casual, very conversational. Number two, we unknowingly, this is so common, 99% of the websites on the internet have this issue. We unknowingly position ourselves as the hero of our own story versus the guide. And there's only room for one hero in the story. You are the guide. Your client or your customer is the hero. When you position yourself as the hero in the story, you kick them out. So you've all, I'm sure you can relate to this, where you go to a website and you're like, oh, this person solves the problem that I'm looking to solve. And then you get there and you leave after five to seven seconds. It's because you can't envision yourself in that story. They've positioned themselves as the hero. They kicked you out. You're like, I just don't feel like a connection. I'm going to keep looking. And that's why it's because they haven't pulled you in with a good story.  I love this. The next thing that I want to dig into is because so often I will hear, well, I just don't have time to write good copy, or that's not necessarily an income producing activity, which we talk about all the time, but I know one of the things that you teach is being able to tell your story well and incorporate that into your copy. Copy is actually a revenue producing activity. Can you get into that a little bit?  Yeah. It's the most powerful way to increase your revenue. It is the most important work that you can do for your business. And the beautiful thing is you do the work once. It doesn't have to take a lot of time, and then it keeps working for you while you're asleep. It acts as kind of like your full-time sales employee that's selling for you 24 7. And when it's done right, people will get on the phone with you and they're ready to hire you. You don't have to spend a bunch of time selling to them because your website copy is doing that for you. So the reality is people do not buy anything from anyone they don't trust and connect with. And I think the most powerful thing that good copywriting does and story good storytelling does, is it creates a deep sense of connection and trust. And so that's why it is so incredibly powerful. People immediately feel connection to you. They feel seen, they feel heard, and they know that you're the best one to solve the problem.  Problem. I love that. Okay, so if you're listening and you've convinced us that one, we now have a framework to tell our story, which I still wish that we could magically write that for everyone. You did it so well and now we know the importance. What is one or two tips that you could give somebody to just get started on improving their copy or improving how they tell their story in addition to the framework?  The great thing is, I mean, the freebie that I've created really does do all this for you. I have a worksheet. It makes it simple. The process will take about five minutes. All in it is really, really streamlined and simplified, and I hold your hand the whole way. Now, the problem is, and you spoke to this a little bit earlier, is that it's really hard to write for your own business. It's really, really hard and there's a reason for that. So I want to let you guys off the hook yet again. The reason is because of the bottle effect. So when you are your own business, you are so close to it that it's literally trying to read the label of the bottle. When you're inside the bottle, you can't get outside the bottle to read the label. It's physically impossible. And that's why with this, it is so important to work with an expert or work with a guide or work with somebody who can help read that label for you from outside of the bottle.  And once you go through my worksheet, you can schedule a call with me and I'll review this with you and we'll totally nail it and get it dialed in. So you can answer that question, what do you do? But the beautiful thing about this is once you've answered that question, then what? Okay, that's great. You can answer the question. Then you take that same copy and you add it to your email signature, you add it to the header of your website, you put it on your LinkedIn profile, you use the formula for your Instagram posts. It's just the gift that keeps on giving. And for the business owners that I work with, and I'm sure your audience can relate to this, there's just so much to do when it comes to managing your business and your family and life and schedules and appointments. So anytime you can learn a framework like this and create your core tagline, a storytelling tagline that you don't have to do over and over again, that's going to work to help you grow your business. That's a no-brainer. Sign me up for that. So I don't know if that answers your question, but  Yeah, no, I love that. And I always say once you nail it, it gets so much easier because one of the things that we always teach is put yourself out there. Go network, tell people what you do, share your story. But if you're fumbling over your words, then all that work that you're doing to get on podcasts or speak in groups is not going to be as powerful as it could be. And I think it obviously will help more people that are the right people if they can understand your story. So helpful. I'm so excited to apply the framework myself. So before the end of every episode, we like to do some rapid fire questions, and my first question is, where is your favorite place to holiday? Anytime of year.  I would have to say San Diego. I was born in San Diego and I didn't grow up there, but I have a lot of family there and the weather is amazing, and I took my four-year-old son there last year to Legoland, which was mind blowing. So fun. Yeah,  That's so fun. Ironically, we actually took our girls to San Diego when they were four. We rented a house and spent a week there and it was really cool. I'm going to change it up. Super curious because I know you've had an amazing corporate background as well. What's the best piece of advice you've been given in your career or something that you remember that helps you along the way best is kind of extreme?  I think the thing that comes to mind is just a reminder, and I was having actually a conversation about this yesterday in that you don't have to be the absolute best at what you do. You just have to do it in your own way, and nobody can replicate that when you're your own business. You've got to just remind yourself that, I guess this is a way to combat imposter syndrome in that reminding yourself that through your lens and through your experience, that is nobody else can repeat that, and that those natural people that are drawn to you are going to come and they need you.  Yeah, I love that. If you had to choose between a good book and a good movie, what would you choose?  A hundred percent a good movie and specifically a documentary. I'm like a documentary junkie. I love learning and I love storytelling, and I feel like documentary to me feels like kind of like I am, it's a great leisure activity, but I'm also learning. It feels like productive in a funny way.  Yeah, it's like the best of both worlds. That's actually what I would choose as well. Okay. I know that you have this amazing resource waiting for us. Tell us where we can connect with you, learn more, and we'll obviously put all this in the show notes, but where we can download the guide to create our own framework  To create your own storytelling tagline, go to clarity with Kris.com, and that's Kris with a K. So clarity with Kris.com. You can go through it. There's a five minute video and it's a whole tool. You've got a worksheet, it does not take long. It's super fun. And then you can get my support on the backend, so it's really valuable. It doesn't cost you a penny. And then my main website is red door designs.com. That's red door designs.com. And this is for people who are not interested in DIY. They want their website copy done and they want it done for them, but they kind of want it to really sound and be aligned with their own voice. So my process is it's a one-on-one done for you slash done with you process that will allow you to have copy that sells for you in 2.5 hours.  Yeah, it's great. It's like, I wish I had had this years ago. I  Mean, I feel like you just sold me on the 2.5 hours. I'm like, wait, can we talk about this more? We'll have to have a second episode. I'd  Yeah. So we'll put all of this in the show notes. If you guys have any questions, go connect with Kris  Thank you for having me. I had a great time. Thanks, Holly.  I am so grateful for you and the power of community that this podcast has created. It is just so amazing to be able to connect with all of you over the last couple of years. We've actually had this podcast for almost three full years now, and because of that, I wanted to just get to know you better. So I would love it if you would head over to holly marie haynes.com/chat and tell me what you think of this episode. You can text me voice, message me, send me a video, email me and ask me anything. I'm a real human. And yes, it's me on the other end answering the messages. So I would love to know what did you like about this episode? What would you like to hear more about? Did something resonate with you? Or maybe inside this episode, I gave you a keyword to learn more. If I did, you can just pop this keyword into the chat and this is a way for us to connect and chat more. So just go to holly marie haynes.com/chat and I can't wait to hear from you.  Thank you so much for listening to The Crush the Rush podcast this week. If you are looking for more support, more accountability, and more inspiration to build that dream business, join us over@hollymariehaynes.com. That's holly marie haynes.com. And don't forget to take action. Consistency, in my opinion, Trump's talent. Every time. Use these tips and tricks to stay in the game. Oh and pss, do you find these tips helpful as in things that you implement every week? Have you left a review of the show yet or better yet shared with a friend? I would be forever grateful if you helped spread our message and content. Once you have left a review, screenshot it and tag me on Instagram stories so we can celebrate you. Plus, we love sending thank you gifts in Return. Community is everything, and we are so grateful for you. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/brand-gravity ### Title: How to Use Storytelling to Write Your Website Homepage, with Kaye Putnam and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5031326 ### Content: ## How to Use Storytelling to Write Your Website Homepage ## Brand Gravity, with Kaye Putnam and Kris Jones How to Use Storytelling to Write Your Website Homepage, with Kaye Putnam and Kris Jones **Do you know your website isn't working but aren't sure how to fix it?** In my recent chat with Kaye Putnam, we delved deep into the art of crafting website copy that sells. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Understanding the Story Structure of Website Copy ? Navigating This Pickle: DIY vs. Hiring a Copywriter It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Welcome to the Brand Gravity Show, where we explore the intersection between brands and psychology. I'm your host, psychology driven brand strategist Kay Putnam.  On this show, we talk about all of the ways to build your brand on truth, not trends, so that you can attract your ideal clients on a gut emotional level.  Most business owners know that telling a story is important. It's how humans connect on a psychological and emotional level. However, most people don't know how to do it well and they lack a structure and a clear how to do it. In today's episode, we dive into the nitty gritty step-by-step tutorial for how to use storytelling to write your website homepage. Copy, and you can get this done in just a few hours with this framework. Welcome to the Brand Gravity Show. I'm your host, psychology driven brand strategist Kay Putnam. I cannot wait to dive into today's conversation. My guest, Kris Jones, is StoryBrand certified and she has a framework to show you how to write compelling website copy that sells. Most business owners know that story is an essential part of business growth, but they don't have time to write it themselves. Today you're going to walk away with a simple formula that you can use to create compelling copy that tells a story so that you can effortlessly convert leads and increase revenue on your website. Let's dive in. Kris, thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so excited to chat about storytelling and particularly about web copy today.  Amazing. Okay, let's just dive straight into the meet. I don't want to make people wait. We all know that storytelling is important. How does it relate to website copy?  Well, it's everything, right? I mean story, you hear about story all the time, but really when people talk about the importance of story, they really mean the importance of story and how you show up online, whether that be your website, your social media, all the ways that you show up. So I think that what happens is there's this disconnect between, okay, let me tell my story and I have to write something on my website. How do I tell my story in a way that makes a good website? And when I talk about making a good website, it's like, how do I tell my story on my website so it gets me new clients and new leads and grows my business? So that's the big challenge. I think anybody who's read the building a story, brown book nods their head like, yes, story. I love it.  I get it. And then they're like, okay, now. So it is really hard to break it down, but the beautiful thing about the framework is that there are seven parts, and really it's a way to filter your message because we love what we do, we love talking about it. We have a lot to say. And the biggest problem is when you put too many words on your website. So using a framework like that, there's lots of great frameworks out there, but using a framework can help you filter out the noise. So you only have on your page what is essential. And what's even more challenging is just the fact that people don't read websites anymore. They scan them. So it's like, how do I tell a story in a handful of words that are being scanned on a phone or scrolled through on a phone in five seconds? There's a way. There's definitely a way to do it. Do  You have a little anecdote or something to show us what's possible when we implement this framework that you'll teach us into our brands?  Yeah, I mean, I've worked with so many clients over the years. I've been doing the work for 20 years, and I've been intentionally integrating StoryBrand strategy into every website that I built since 2017. And it's kind of mind blowing what can happen when you actually implement the framework. The most important one being that you show up with more confidence and when you have clear words to communicate what you do, you end up walking differently even. And you don't cringe when people ask you what you do and you watch people respond with interest and curiosity, and that just continues to build that confidence. But I've had clients, I had a client named Mike who I went through the framework with him. We built his website, got all his branding dialed in, and prior to working with me, he was on the verge of, well, he was burned out and he was on the verge of closing the doors of the company. And then after we revamped his story, he was able to charge six times more for the service that he was doing before, and he had people lined up to work with him. I mean, that's the power of this work. It affects so many different story is really, really powerful that way. And branding too, as you know.  Yes, and it's definitely an important piece of it. Alright, so you piqued my interest and I have experienced it just even recently where we're building out a website with a client and we're trying to say what we need to say with less words. How do we find or how do we decipher, filter through what are the right words so that we're not just word vomiting all over the page and leaving people more confused than ever? How do you start this process?  Well, you began the process, I believe, with crafting your header area, which you can filter it through really thinking about if a caveman were looking at this section of your website, literally if a caveman we're looking at this, could they answer the questions? What do you do? How does it make my life better? And what do you want me to do next? And if you get that right, you're doing better than 99% of the websites out there. So you want to do that. And sometimes it can be hard to do it on your own. So go to coffee shop and literally offer to buy somebody a coffee if they just look at the top part of your website and can answer those questions.  Yes, yes. I always like to say that that's the context piece. People when they land on your website, the first thing that they're asking is not like, oh, who is this person? Or do I even like them? It's like, what's in it for me? Is this the right place for me to be and to spend some of my attention? And that's so incredibly key. I love that example or that idea to have a stranger, because even asking your partner or friend or a client, they're like, oh yeah, this is great. This is fantastic. But it takes that outside perspective and that untrained perspective sometimes to give us that accurate reflection. Amazing. So we start with the hater. We start with what's in it for this person that's landing on the site? Arguably, that's not so much the story, right? It's like we're just setting the context. So where do we go next?  That part is just making sure they don't bounce, they don't leave. We want to let them know that they're in the right place. And then the story begins at the section below that. So every story begins with a hero that has a problem. And that's how I recommend beginning your website. So start, what's the overarching problem that your customers or your clients are just struggling with? What's keeping them up at night? What problems can they just not solve that they're actually on the internet looking for someone to help 'em solve that? So I do this with a nice overarching headline that just defines the problem. It could be, I worked with a client yesterday and the overarching problem was many moms take care of everybody else and their health suffers as a consequence. That's a problem. And if I'm someone that has that problem, you have just pulled me into the story and you're not really telling a story, you're actually, you're crafting a narrative that's inviting them into a story with you where they're the hero and you are the guide. And so we do that by defining the problems and the struggles that that hero is having. And then I follow that headline with three to five bullet points that just expand on that problem. What else is a problem because of that overarching problem?  Yes, yes. I want to make something super clear really quickly. It's not actually relevant, but just because so many of my audience is really familiar with the word hero in the archetype context, this is something that's separate. So kind of divorce that language. It's not that every one of your clients is the hero archetype in the way that I teach archetypes. This is more about centering the story around this person as the primary character. So I just wanted to make that clear. Sometimes I get that confusion around my work and the story StoryBrand work. So I wanted to just make that clear. But I love this because we're leading with empathy. We're introducing the dragon, if you will, the tension that is present already in our ideal client or customer's mind. And like you said, it just invites them right in. So where do we go from here?  We're going to get right back to the interview for the next few seconds. I'm going to share with you my brand Clarity Collective and how it can help you grow your income and impact. If you're an entrepreneur who feels stuck or uncertain about what makes your brand stand out, then this is for you. The Brand Clarity Collective is a mastermind multiplied by mentorship. It's part online curriculum, part digital Mastermind, and it's designed to help you get crystal clear brand clarity so you attract more perfect clients and grow your business. We have a thriving community of entrepreneurs who are all smart and driven. As a member of the collective, you get an all access pass to all of my best branding courses as well as access to our private community where you can connect with like-minded entrepreneurs and get feedback and support directly from me on our coaching calls, the Brand Clarity collective is priced at just 2 97 per month, and after six months, you keep lifetime access to all of the courses to learn more and to see if it's right for you. Head over to my homepage@kputnam.com. There's a big section where you can click to learn more. I'll also include the link in the show notes wherever you are listening or watching. All right, let's get back.  And what's cool about that, and you probably, I mean you're a psychology driven brand strategist, so all this stuff, but what's really fun about that section is even though it's a little bit negative, it actually helps them feel seen and heard. And when you articulate the so clearly, they automatically think that you're the best one to solve it. So when you get this section right, you're really killing it. It's really, really powerful. So then they are continually scanning the environment to figure out how their life can be better, how they can solve the problem, and their life can be better. And so we really want to just spoonfeed that to them in the next section by showing them what's possible and showing them a better life for themselves now that this problem has been solved. So in that section, I often will put a stake in the ground around what my client believes.  I believe there's a better way, I believe you don't have to add more to your plate to take incredible care of yourself. The one that came up yesterday was, I believe everybody benefits when women take the time for self-care. So you're actually not being selfish about it. It's actually really helping the world anyway. And then we paint the picture around that. So this was for a coach who she worked with women who were just feeling depleted and burnout. And so we really painted a picture for them of what their life was going to look like without chronic disease, without the pain that they were going through. So her clients were diabetics and people with chronic illness. And so we paint that picture of, and it's just pulled from what's happened for her clients when you just referenced what you've witnessed in your client's lives. And the thing I wanted to make really clear here is that it's not about features of your offer or your program, and it's such a common thing, and I get it. We're all excited about what we're offering and we want to talk about how great it is, and there is definitely a place for that. But right up front, we really just want to clearly show them how wonderful their life is going to be once this problem is solved for them.  Yes, connection before the conversion, every single time connection. First, lemme zoom out, really quick question. So a lot of my students have a challenge when it comes to both of these sections where they're like, my ideal client has, or I have several different ideal clients who experience all different problems and they get all different kinds of results across this spectrum. How do we reflect all of the things that could happen or how do we would narrow down to what we're actually going to highlight on our site?  I get this question on almost every call that I'm on, and it's really common, and there's always, always a golden thread that is a theme because you're you and you're doing this work, there's always a common thread that ties all your clients together. And fundamentally, we're talking about core problems and core desires, and there's always a way to kind encompass different offerings, different client types into this.  Yes. Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. And to pair with that, I think it's really important to be specific. I don't know if you recommend this or not, so I hope I'm not derailing the conversation, but sometimes when I'm writing sales pages or homepage, I'm utilizing those bullets to illustrate a few different possible outcomes so that we can maybe represent some of that spectrum a little bit wider. But we want to, like you said, find that red thread that's going through everything and maintain some level of specificity so people aren't just like, oh, you're going to have a great life after you work with me.  Totally. In what way? For example, this coach that I worked with yesterday, she works with women who are over 50, and so a lot of them really want to have stamina to be able to play with their grandkids, but not all of them have grandkids. So we spoke to that, but we also expanded it. So it's like you want to have the stamina to play with your grandkids or travel with your friends or So it's encompassing all of them.  Yes, love it. Okay, so now we've made the connection. We've empathized with where they are at and where they want to go. Where do we go next in this grand story that we're crafting?  The next phase of the story, and you'll notice this in movies that you watch or every movie you watch, every book you read about 20 minutes and a guide will enter into this story. And now we have earned the right to introduce ourselves because we've established that resonance and connection and showed them what's in it for them. Now they're actually curious like, oh, who's behind this and who's puppeting this process, basically. And so then you can show up and have a photo of yourself, make sure you're looking at the camera. We're looking for a real connection, and we show up as the guide through empathy and authority. So this section, it doesn't have to be very long. You can show your picture and you can begin with an empathetic statement. Not having time for self-care is really frustrating or not taking the time to care for yourself is really depleting and it's hard.  So empathy just goes such a long way in this section. And then we want to talk about ourselves, but as it relates to the things that our clients care about. So what they care about really is that you know how to solve their problem. That's what they care about. They don't really care about all your accolades and all your history. They want to know you've solved the problem many times before and it can be helpful for them to know if this is true for you, that you've been through this struggle yourself and you overcame it, you came out on the other side, and now it's your passion to help other people achieve this goal or solve this problem. And so I think of this kind of like a letter from me to you. I know this is a hard situation you're in and I've been through it. I know how to get to the other side. Here's how I do it and join me. So it doesn't have to be a big long history about you.  Yeah, we can leave the pet names out of this section. We don't need to know that you used to cross country ski in high school yet. We can keep it relevant to the story. Yes,  Amazing. Okay, love it. Then where is the mind? Where's the psychology of the person that's reading it going next? What is the next question that they're asking  Themselves? The next part is just to make it really clear that you know what you're doing. So maybe a section about this should not take up much room at all, but just a simple strip or bar that shows how many clients you've worked with. If you are a coach, you might want a logo of the coach that you're certified with, or it might mean how many, let's see how many clients you have, how many years you've been in the industry, something like that. You don't have to go heavy handed on this. They just want to check that box in their head really simply that you know what you're doing and this is really done for people that aren't reading very much. So this is kind of one of those things we want to make sure as they scan that they're like, okay, she or he is a pro and they know what they're doing.  Really that's more of just kind of an add-on to the guide section. You just want to make sure that that comes through. And then after that, every guide gives their hero a three step plan. Ideally a three step doesn't have to be, but this again, every movie, every book, it always happens. It's the plan. Here's what you have to do in order to overcome this hurdle. And the initial step of the plan begins with the call to action. What do you want them to do next to engage with you? And then the second one is whatever your process is, you want to communicate, this is what we're going to do together. You're going to get a custom roadmap or whatever it might be. And then the third step in the plan is really that happy end result that they're going to experience. So this section really lets them know that getting from the beginning of this process to the end of it where they've accomplished their goal or overcome their problem, that it's actually not going to be that complicated or hard. Essentially, they're on one side of a big raging river, we're on the other and we're throwing out three big boulders and letting them know, hop on over, you can do it.  I was going to say water's warm, but we don't actually want them to get into the raging river. That is not the intent. There's a way to avoid all of that. I love it. So I've completely lost track of our steps. How many more steps do we have after  This? Gosh. So we've given them a clear plan. What we want to do next is just remind them what's at stake. If they do nothing, no story is interesting. If there are no stakes, if the bomb got turned off after five seconds and there was no fear that it was going to go off, everybody would leave the movie. So we want to just remind them that what is at stake if they do nothing, if they keep going the way that they are, and it can be gentle, but it's like life is short. If you don't want to look back on today and wish that you had taken action, just let a gentle reminder. It's actually, I think of it as a gift and then letting them know that together you can overcome the problem.  Yeah. Yes, it's really important. The human brain prefers the comfort zone, and even if they're in pain or just dealing with a problem, it's still easier to stay there than to take a risk sometimes. So we need to make people aware and just recognize what they're missing out on. Give them that bit of that loss aversion by not taking action. Such an important piece. Love it. Okay. Is there anything else?  No, just a reminder, this comes up a lot too, is just the fact that every guide calls their hero to action. So whatever your call to action is, whatever you want them to do next to engage with you. For my clients, they typically want to get on the phone with a lead. So schedule a call is a good one, but the way I approach it is you want your call to action to be all over the place. You want it to be consistent, repeated. You can't really do it too much. You want it in every section. So if you were to go back through all the sections that we just talked through, make sure your call to action is at the end of each of those sections so they clearly know what you want them to do next.  Yes. And people are ready to take the next step at different stages. Some people are super fast. They're like, okay, I really need to solve this problem. You articulate my problem really well, let's do this thing. So we want to continue to invite people into the next step, which I love. So I wanted to switch directions a little bit here. So you have a belief or you have an interesting story I imagine, and I want to hear this story about how to actually get this done. Do you hire an expensive copywriter to do this for you? Do you gut through it yourself? What is the most effective way to actually get this accomplished?  I love that phrase. Do you gut through it yourself? Because it's so damn accurate. It's brutal. I was thinking this morning, I was walking my five-year-old to school, and I was like, the copywriting model is kind of broken because there's so many entrepreneurs and so many people taking the leap into becoming self-employed, which I'm such a huge fan of. I believe in for people that want to be self-employed, I believe you should take the leap. I think it's a beautiful path, but what we don't realize when we get into it is all the damn writing that needs to happen. And we think, oh, we're going to get just to do the work that we love. I'm a massage therapist or a chiropractor or whatever I do, and I just want to do the work that I love. And there's this whole other part-time job of creating content, writing your website, posting on social, all this writing that has to happen.  And it's not only that you have to do the writing, but you have to learn how to do the writing well and strategically, which can take a lot of time. So I spent years watching my clients. I started out in the industry doing web design, and I would often just ask my clients to write their own website copy. And I just watched the torture that they went through around it and the delays and the frustration and the headaches, and I was just like, okay, we got to figure this out. It should not be that hard. So back to the original problem of it just being like this torturous process, the alternate option of that is to hire a copywriter and have kind of outsource your own voice, which when you're your own business, you can't outsource your voice. So what happens is copywriters are usually very skilled, know what they're doing, they know how to write, but no one can capture your voice the way that you can.  So when a writer goes off and writes for you often, and not all the time, but often I hear from my clients that it just ended up being even more time consuming. It didn't feel like their voice. And so there was a lot of revisions and a lot of back and forth and very time consuming. And the reason they hired a writer in the first place was to save time and not have to write. So it's kind of like you're in a pickle, basically. You have to stay up late and try and write it yourself. And even though you don't want to or spend a lot of money and hire somebody, and that doesn't always feel really aligned with who you are. And if you're going to be sending people to your website, you've got to be excited about them going to visit your website.  You've got to feel really confident and good about it. And so over the years, I've developed a method that is really collaborative. So you get, as the business owner, you get the best of both worlds where you don't have to write it yourself and you don't have to hire a copywriter to just do it for you. It's very collaborative. So my method, it happens in two and a half hours. You're done with your website copy completely. So there's about 45 minutes to an hour of just answering some questions and watching a few videos that I have and answering some questions, and I know how to, like those golden nuggets are all in you. I just know how to pull 'em out and I know how to filter out what's not necessary. And then I do write your wireframe or your website for you, and then we get on a 90 minute call and go through each section very in a very detailed way just to make sure it's right on target with your voice, your clients. And because I'm pulling from the questions that you've answered, I get a feel for your voice. So by the end of that 90 minute collaboration call, you've got your copy and it's done for you.  Yes. I love it. What a masterful example of that story structure that we just shared because you presented the problem, the frustration, and presented another way, another possibility. Absolutely incredible. If people want to learn more, where should they go and what resources can they find?  Yeah, so if you go to Red Door Designs, it's R-E-D-D-O-O-R designs with an S on the end.com. You can find everything that I offer there. My main offer is the one that I just talked to you through website copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat. I also have a free resource there that shows you how to write compelling copy in five minutes.  Nice, nice. We will put the links to everything in the show notes or below the video if you're watching on YouTube. Amazing. And one final question. If people could take everything that you just shared and do one thing, what would you want them to do next?  Oh gosh, what a great question. Honestly, I would have them download my freebie so they start to understand the fundamentals of a story, and there's a worksheet there, a companion worksheet that will show you how to get these things out of your head and onto paper so you can start to understand the structure. Just how you mentioned, oh, what you just shared really followed that structure. I didn't do that intentionally. That's just kind of the way that I do it. But that's what I want for your audience. I want them to start listening with an ear like that where they're like, oh, here's the story, here's the problem, here's the benefit, and here is the solution. So that's what I would recommend. I think that another thing that you could do is just go through the grunt test with your website, go to a coffee shop, show your website to somebody and say, tell me what I do. And I think that would be really fun. Yes,  Yes, yes. Please reach out to either Kris Ryan and let us know how that goes. I would love if somebody actually did that because I think that you would learn so much. We take so much for granted, and we get so blind to our own brand and messaging just in it. And of course they might not be your ideal client, so you might not get super applicable if they just don't understand the problem. But just that clear context in the beginning of your site is so important to get just dialed in that that feedback would be invaluable. I love it so much, and thank you for wearing matching hats with me. That was super fun.  I ran out to my closet and got my hat on so we could be twins. Yes.  I love it. Amazing. I appreciate you taking the time to share your genius and to share this really valuable lesson and applicable lesson with us today. And definitely everybody that is listening or watching head over and grab that freebie and see everything that she has to offer. Thank you so  Much. Thank you so much for having me. And one thing I just want to throw in, when you go to my website, you'll be able to see visually each of those steps that we just talked through. So that'll be would be a good visual example too.  So what do you think, have you ever had that conundrum where you tried to hire an expert copywriter to write on your behalf, only to find out that it still needed some work after, or maybe you've just been trying to DIY it and you've been feeling like you have been banging your head up against a wall. I think that Kris gave us a really interesting way of looking at this, of navigating those two things, kind of getting the best of both worlds. And I hope that you enjoyed this episode and that you learned something I know that I did today. You're amazing. Keep building that brand, getting your genius out into the world. Thank you for listening. I will see you in the next episode. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you want to discover your innate brand advantage to attract more ideal clients online, you're definitely going to want to take my quiz, which you can find at the link in the show notes. Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode. See you on the next one. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/dangerous-creatives ### Title: Using Storytelling For Better Marketing, with Kristin Sweeting and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5031348 ### Content: ## Using Storytelling For Better Marketing ## Dangerous Creatives Podcast, with Kristin Sweeting and Kris Jones Using Storytelling For Better Marketing, with Kristin Sweeting and Kris Jones **Do you ever nod your head in agreement when it comes to StoryBrand principles…** But find yourself struggling when you attempt to apply them to your own business? In my recent enlightening conversation with Kristin Sweeting, we delved into the 3 things every business owner needs to communicate their elevator pitch one-liner with ease. **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn how successful entrepreneurs strike this one balance. ? Explore the role of being a Guide and how transforms the way you communicate with clients (hero). ? Get my proven method for streamlining your processes, allowing you to focus on what you love. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Hello and welcome to the Dangerous Creatives Podcast. If you're growing your photography or creative business, you're in the right place. Each week we deliver a workshop style, solo show, expert interview, or motivating story from our community so you can tune in to find encouragement, motivation, and ideas to help the right people find you and your amazing work. I'm your host, Kristen Sweeting. I'm a photographer and coach, and my favorite thing is helping dangerous creatives just like you stand out in a world that just wants us to blend in. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dive in  Well, hey, and welcome back to the Dangerous Creatives Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Sweeting, and today we have such a treat. kris Jones is on the podcast with us. She is a StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Design is an expert with words and stories. And so if you've ever hit a moment either in your marketing or your copywriting or what to post on Instagram where you're like, I just don't know what to say, I know I have great pictures, but I don't know how to talk about this. kris is going to help us out so much today and stick around to the end. We're going to even do a little workshop together where we write your elevator pitch. So kris, I'm so glad that you're here with us today. Thanks for being on the Dangerous Creatives podcast.  I am so happy to be here, Kristen. It's going to be a lot of fun.  Okay, so you were mentored by Donald Miller, who is the founder of StoryBrand, and you use StoryBrand Framework in a lot of the work that you do. Can you explain what that is? What's a StoryBrand framework?  Yeah, I can. So StoryBrand framework is essentially a filtering design device. What Donald Miller did was he really found that there are a handful of components to every story that was ever written or every movie that was ever shown. There's this common ingredients to every story. And so what he did was he broke that down and he converted it into a formula or a way to communicate story through your business and through your marketing. And so Donald had a company actually here in Portland. He now lives in Nashville near you, but he had a company here in Portland and the marketing was not working, and he had been an author for many years and he was like, I'm going to crack this damn code and get this event company thriving. And so he really married the two parts of his mind, which were business and story, and he figured out how to use a framework, a story framework, and apply that to marketing.  So that's how it came about. And before the book was even finished, I got on board with his approach and got to work with him directly, which was amazing. He is brilliant and talented, and the framework has really changed the way that I do all the work that I do. So prior to meeting Donald, I was doing a lot of website design and development and some branding. And then once I learned the framework, I was able to make the websites that I was building so much more effective. It was mind blowing to me the results that happened for my clients once I incorporated storytelling and I've never looked back. Now I just focus on the story part of it because I find it is the thing that moves the needle the most for my clients.  Yeah, before he was doing that, I remember there was a moment in my own business because photography, it feels like there would be limitless amount of things to post to promote your work, whatever the photos should speak for themselves. And a lot of times the photos don't speak for themselves enough. Beautiful photos everywhere. And started kind of incorporating storytelling into what I was writing, what was on the website, and I was like, oh my gosh. It just was connecting deeper with people. I saw a total change in my business. And then learning more about StoryBrand and applying his framework, same thing. So I'm so excited that you're here today and that all of our listeners get to do it with us today, but for people that don't know what the framework is, it's seven steps. Can you remind me what the StoryBrand framework is?  Well, the most simple version of it is that every story begins with a hero who has a problem, and that hero meets a guide that has a solution, that guide gives them a three step plan, and then the hero is able to find and experience success and avoid failure. So that's really like every story in a nutshell in its most simple form.  When you think through chick flicks and adventure movies and books that are popular, a lot of them all have that same framework.  Well, okay, so we're going to get a hold of this today. So what are some of those key elements that really make words more powerful? Have you found some things that when we throw this into your marketing or when we put this on your website, it really makes it more powerful than if we weren't doing that?  I mean, I find that there are a handful of storytelling components that when you put them all together, they really tell a story. And I think that there's a lot of confusion around how to tell a story because we've grown up being read to as kids and we think of a story as once Upon a time, this and that. And it's not that we're not doing that, but what we're really doing is inviting our clients into a story with us, into a narrative with us where they can imagine themselves in the story that we're telling and they are the hero of the story, and we are the guide in the story that knows how to overcome their problem and help them experience success. So the key is really establishing those roles, establishing them as the hero, and we do that by talking about them, not ourselves. We talk about their problem, their frustrations, their hopes, their dreams, and we also show up with empathy as well. So every guide is really empathetic toward their hero because they know the struggle, they've been there, they've done that, and they know how to get to the other side. So that's some of the core way that we use story is establishing those roles within the story.  I love that. Yeah. A question I get asked a lot in coaching or in marketing or when people are growing their business is like, okay, I want to connect deeper with my audience and I want to tell stories, but how much is too much to talk about myself? And none of us want to act like we think. So it's like, how much is too much to share about me? How does my story fit into this whole equation? I get that we should make them the hero, but we just talk about us a little bit too. How do you reconcile those things? What pieces end up being important in that establishing the guide to credibility?  Yeah, so I mean, let's be honest, people really care about themselves. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but that they really care about themselves and solving their own problems. So I think this will hopefully be a load off for some people that you actually don't have to talk about yourself hardly at all. And the only way you really need to talk about yourself is as it relates to your client or your customer in the ways that they're interested. And the only thing they really care about you is they don't care where you grow up. They don't care that you love to ski or you love to hike. They care that you know how to solve their problem, and you can do it painlessly or quickly or affordably or whatever kind of things that you can throw in the pot that would benefit them. But really in any about section that I craft, it's really all about the hero. Even when you're talking about yourself, it's like, I understand how hard this is for you. I know the struggle that you're going through. I had my own challenges with this in the past and this is how I overcame it, and this is the plan that I typically use to overcome this challenge. So it's like I'm kind of talking about me, my picture's there, but it's really, really focused on my client.  I think that does take a load off for so many people. I think we have it in our heads. We have it ingrained in our heads that marketing means selling myself that marketing means convincing you that I'm worth hiring. And I think this framework is so helpful. You don't actually have to say how important you are or say why you should hire me. You just have to show the other person that you understand their dilemma and how to help them get through it. And that it does. It takes such a load off.  It does. And the more you convince, the more they can smell a little bit of desperation. So a lot of times people talk about features of the work that they do instead of the benefits of it, the success of it. So really want to keep asking yourself instead of talking about me and the features that the things that I bring to the table, it's more you want to ask yourself, what's their life going to look like after they've worked with you? Are they going to have keepsakes that they can fondly look back on for decades? What are those benefits after the fact that their, how's their life going to look after they work with you?  Can you give me an example you can even use from your business? What are features of what you offer versus the benefits of what you offer?  Features of what I offer are that we get together and we have a collaboration call. It's kind of like details about how I work that you've got 30 days of support after our collaboration call. And it's not that stuff isn't important, it's just that it shouldn't be the forefront of the story. What really want to establish those roles early on your website and then later or down on the page, you can certainly talk about features, but they're not going to buy into it unless they know how they're going to benefit from it. So benefits might be make a lasting impression, elevate the vibe of your celebration and receive high quality keepsakes. Those are all things that are really going to benefit me as a customer of yours.  Yeah, that makes sense. Are there things that you would say to someone who's in an industry that's really saturated photography, for example, it's really easy for everyone to be like, and we'll help you make great memories. Do you have anything that you coach people through when you're like, am I just saying the same thing as everyone else? How do I make it a little bit different? Do I need to be worrying about that?  Yeah, I mean, in any industry that's saturated, you do hear these common words all the time. And I think the key is just brainstorming and figuring out different ways to do it. Also, look at your testimonials. If you're getting feedback or reviews from other people, you really want just to communicate what you do that's a little bit different. Maybe even your audience that you work with is a little bit different. Or there was actually a photography client that I worked with yesterday and he said something about creating a wow moment. They do photo boots at events. And so we came up with a benefit statement and a philosophical statement around that, and we wrote, we believe vintage photo booths are the easiest way to create a bonafide wow moment for all your guests. And so they're more photographers than there are photo booth companies, but there's always a way to kind of infuse some personality and some even more casual kind of lingo into it that makes it feel less vanilla.  Yeah, totally. That makes it feel a little bit more authentic to you. You mentioned a benefit statement or a brand statement. Are there things like that where you're like, I would love everyone to have a brand statement and elevator pitch, a great about page. What are some of those elements of a website that really make it pop that someone should take a little time to focus on maybe?  Yeah. Well, there's really two things In your header section, you want to answer three questions. What do you do? Well, you want your customer to be able to answer three questions. What do you do? How is it going to make my life better? And what do you want me to do next to work with you? And you've got about five seconds to communicate that. I call it the grunt. I call it the grunt test because really what you want is a caman to be able to look at your website and grunt what you do to somebody else. It has to be so simple, not clever at all, just very, very clear wins of clever every time. So that would be the number one thing that you must have. Otherwise, if people have to work to figure out what you do or how they're going to benefit from it, they're probably going to leave the website or work with somebody else.  So you just want to welcome them to your website by answering those three questions right off the bat. And then the other thing that's a little bit more work is I am a huge believer in the elevator pitch tagline, one-liner, whatever you want to call it. It's all the same thing in my opinion. I often call it a tagline because I define a tagline as one simple phrase that sells for you. And I find once we craft that, it's actually a very, very short, concise story, but you can copy and paste that into all your social media. You can put it on your website, you can put it on the back of your business card, you can put it on all your social profiles. So I find that that having that statement allows you to really answer that question even in person. What do you do in a way that kind of gets people excited to work with you and helps them remember what you do, which is half the battle?  Totally, totally. I know. I think we all think that people are thinking about us more than they are. We all have this fear of judgment or, oh, these people from high school are going to be judging my business. I'm like, really? People just aren't thinking about us as much as we think, and we need to remind them why we are around what we're doing, how we can help. It's such a great point. Are there any favorite elevator pitches or taglines from businesses? It can be a big business, but what's an example? What's one that you really like?  Well, I think that there's a lot of confusion about it. People think, I need a mission statement, I need a tagline. I need a one-liner or an elevator pitch. They need all these things. And Nike, of course, their tagline is Just do it. And the reason that works is because they have a bajillion dollars,  Right? So that's why that works. But in my opinion, you don't need a tagline like that. I think of a tagline as a little bit longer than that, in my opinion, a true tagline. It really tells a story around the problem that you solve and the benefits of it, and it positions your service as the solution to that problem. So it's the one thing that I do with every client no matter what, we always begin there because it really informs everything else that we create together. And even if everybody just did that work, you'd be kind of blown away by how confident you feel all of a sudden about communicating what you do. And when you have to come up with coffee, you kind of lean on that because it's so compelling and it kind of opens up the conversation, whether it's written or in person. It opens it up for more conversation.  If you are really good at making dreams for your business, but struggle to really take those dreams to reality, or you are detail oriented and work all the time, but struggle to find fun, ease, and vision in your business, danger school coaching takes a balanced approach to growing your creative business. Our next cohort starts March 16th, and we'd love to help support your growth by helping you master the sales, marketing and psychology that really let you thrive. Our clients have been able to double and triple their revenue, create more space for their personal lives, land dream projects, get major features and give back to their communities. Our program is prerecorded, so you have access anytime you can listen, just like you listen to this podcast, and then every two weeks you get to jump into a small cohort and coach through the material with a group of peers and a coach. So really, you get to implement the material, grow and community test and try new things and get feedback and encouragement all along the way. The course is prerecorded so you can listen anytime and the group calls are every two weeks live on Zoom with your cohort leader and your cohort. join@dangerschool.com or click the link in the show notes to get more info.  All right, well, let's do it together. All right, if you're listening, you're listening, get out your notebook paper. I'm like, these podcasts end up just being classes. I'm like, all right, everyone, get your notepad out. Let's do this. We're going to work on an elevator pitch together with kris. Let's do it. Where do we start?  Okay, so a little while ago, I mentioned the most simple form of story you've ever heard in your life, which is a hero has a problem they can't solve. They meet a guide who has a solution, and then that hero finds success. So what I want you to do is write down three things. What problems are your clients struggling with? So Kristen, you get to maybe just brainstorm out loud. You get this opportunity to brainstorm out loud. So what are a few problems that your clients have?  Are they struggling with? And think when you're on the phone with them, in their words, what are they?  They're looking for a wedding photographer, so they want to have that day captured, so they remember it forever. And a lot of times, my client is more on the fashionable editorial side and their parent is more traditional, and so they're trying to balance both sides and make everybody happy.  Yes. Yeah, and then let me think what else. They're high achievers, so they don't have a lot of time to mess around. They want to hire someone that really knows what they're doing that is going to make it an easy process for them. I'd say stress reduction is one of the biggest values I bring to my wedding photography client.  Okay, got it. You mentioned easy process, stress reduction, and one other thing,  Yes. Okay, so this is great. Your brain dump, you kind of captured multiple things. So I want to hone in on the problem, which is many brides lean toward a more fashionable editorial style while their parents lean toward more traditional look and feel, and they don't know how to balance those two together. They want to make everybody happy, but they don't know how to make everybody happy when you've got these two conflicting styles. So I would totally hone in on that as your problem. I think that's a solid problem. The other problem is that they don't have time to mess around, and that's a legitimate problem as well. They're overwhelmed. They don't have time to mess around. They just need to find somebody to do it right? But I think that this problem around the fashionable editorial versus the more traditional sounds like pretty, you hear a lot about that, and so I think that would be worthwhile. So let's come up with a simple statement around that. So kind of think out loud with me here. So Minnie, is it usually the bride that hires you  Or the wedding planner? So it's kind of like a compilation of people,  People, I'm glad this came up. I would say the bride. I mean, the wedding planner is kind of like an exterior person. Even though they might be making the decision, they're going to want to know that this is what you provide for the bride. So I think it will encompass that wedding planner. Yes. If we focus on communicating directly with the bride, it's going to encompass the wedding planner.  I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right. They just want to make their client happy.  So we might start with something like mini brides. So we want to identify who our audience is. Many brides struggle to find a photographer, a wedding. I might just say photographer. Think about this for a second.  You can balance the fashionable editorial look while maintaining a classic elegance that lasts forever. I don't know. That was just  Well, and I think that's great. I think we really want to speak to kind of the struggle of they're trying to make everybody happy. So I would say, let's see, how many brides struggle to struggle to make everybody happy or struggle to find a photographer that will make everybody happy, even though the family has conflicting style? Something along those lines.  I like feeling torn between fashionable trends and the timeless photos that your mother will love or that your family will love, or something like that. I dunno. Brain dumping.  Yeah. Love it. No, I love this. I get to pull out the golden nuggets. Many brides feel torn between pleasing their parents with a classic style or taking a more modern approach.  It helps us to pick one problem like we're doing right to say, what's one problem we can speak to instead of trying to answer five problems?  Yes. So Donald Miller gives a great example of this, but when you go to watch Born Identity the movie, he needs to find his identity. He doesn't know who he is. So if you introduced other problems, like he wants to find a girlfriend, he wants to adopt a cat, and he wants to travel the world, all of a sudden we're overwhelmed with too many problems and it wouldn't tell a good story. So the beautiful thing is that this exercise can be done. You can do it, pick one problem every time you do it, but you could have three taglines that you use depending on where you're, who you're talking to, or even on different pages on your website. So if you had a page just for the wedding photography, this one-liner or tagline would really be what you'd hone in on that page. And then if you had different types of clients, maybe children's photography, you'd obviously totally different problem.  Yep. Define the problem. Usually this process takes about a full hour, which we don't have today, so we're going to kind of Frankenstein  But we'll get the nuggets down and then we'll show you how they all come together. Perfect. So the next step is that hero meets a guide with the solution. This is where you would say, I'm a wedding photographer, and then we want to position your service as the solution to this problem.  Approach every wedding day, multiple with both people in mind, or approach every wedding day with an editorial eye and a focus on, I don't know, timeless keepsakes, something like that. Yeah, something where you can clearly say, I'm there for you and your mom without saying it that bluntly.  Right. Totally. And then tell me what, after the hero engages with you and you're the guide, what do they get as the benefit of all this? What do they end up with? What's their life after they've had the benefit and the honor of working with you at their wedding?  I think all their most important people feel valued and seen, and I was there just for them, even though I was there for a lot of different people, but everyone feels like they got what they wanted and they felt really special and seen. Oh,  Okay. Wait, run me back through the four things again. So we have define the problem as number one,  Define the problem here, has a problem they can't solve  What's the problem your customers have or your clients have that they can't solve?  Brain dump three or five and pick one, and then they meet a guide with a solution. So we position you as the guide and your service as the solution to the problem.  Cool. So number two, show how you are the guide and the solution to the hero's problem.  Yes, exactly. Just position yourself as the guide. So we're going to introduce you as the guide by saying, I'm a wedding photographer who, and then we're going to position your service as the solution.  Yes, totally. I got a plan. I know how to do this. I've done this a million times before. Don't worry. I got  Okay. And then we want to paint a vision of what success looks like for them.  Yeah. Number three is paint a vision of what success looks like. That one, I feel like, tell me if I'm wrong, but you can put that in once you know that one, you can put that in an Instagram post. You can show how this client, everyone was happy, or in this example, mom's happy, couple's happy. You can pull those out and those,  Here's a little trick for every Instagram post that you ever write. I mean, you could use this a hundred percent of the time and you'd get way more engagement.  Okay. Get your pens out. People write this down. So every story begins with a hero who has a problem they can't solve. Brain dump five or 10 problems that your customers have, and then begin every post you write with a problem, begin every post you write with that problem, because the minute, if I'm your ideal client and I am reading the problem that you're talking about, and it's my problem, I am just pulled in our brains fine problems like that, 100% irresistible. We cannot help but engage. And so that is really just one simple way to just get the juices flowing and get to posting in a way that feels connected, and then that will allow you not to have to talk about yourself or not to have to kind of start with a complete length page. You've got these 5, 10, 15 bullets on a Google Doc that you always refer to, and you can change up how you phrase it, you can change it up, but just go to your little dumping ground and start with the problem. Every story starts with a problem, and I find that posting can be so much easier when you do start with the problem.  Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. We wanted to have a destination wedding, but we couldn't, and so here's how we made this venue look like Paris or whatever.  Yes. Yeah, exactly. That's a problem. Or yeah, I longed to have a destination wedding in Paris, or one client, you might say, one client, I had long to have a destination wedding in Paris, and she had dream about it her whole life, but because of covid or finances, it just wasn't possible. Okay. Whoa. Really? That happened? Now I'm all in. I want to know, is this problem going to be solved? And that's the way it works. It's just brain science and stories. When you start with a problem, you're really beginning a story, and stories are just, they're actually 22 times more memorable than just regular information. So it's a great way to just be remembered for the work that you're doing as well.  Yeah, I love that. I also, I mean, if you were like, Kristin, I started a business and it was floundering and it was super hard, and then I started implementing this structure into my copywriting and my business 300 x or whatever, I'd be like, what? That's amazing. So going back to that, when do we pull in personal stories? Do we try to make 'em stick with also our client's problem? So it still is hitting that,  Wait, well, let me make sure I'm understanding your question. So you're saying, should I talk about my own problem and my own struggles versus my customer's struggles  Every once in a while? Does it ever help If it's similar,  I am totally cool with that. As long as you can show that you've overcome the struggle, really what you're doing is you're showing up as a guide and saying, I've been through this struggle. I solved it, and I got to experience these results now. And now I'd like to help you come through it. But again, any story, all stories begin with a problem. So whether it's about you or it's about your customer, they both work  So let's refine your one-liner and get it dial in so we can see the magic come together. Cool. Okay, so we've got mini brides struggle to find a photographer who can balance modern the modern editorial style with traditional. I'm a wedding photographer who approaches every wedding with both styles in mind so everybody feels seen and heard and gets what they wanted.  Take that and copy and paste it, put it in the footer of your emails, put it in all your bios in social media, put it on LinkedIn or wherever else you post and put it on your website too.  I think when you have something like that that you're really known for, I've seen this with different things in marketing too, when someone can be like, oh, this problem came up for my client, or this problem came up over here. Who's going to be great for that? If you're very clear on the thing that you solve, the problem you solve, then you're the top of mind for that referral. You're the top of mind person to solve that problem. You're like, oh my gosh. Well, Kristen totally does that, or Rebecca totally does that. And it helps with your referral strategy too.  Yeah, it does. When you can kind of beat that same drum over and over and over again. I mean, people need to hear things like eight times before they can commit it to memory. And so that's why copying and pasting this and putting it everywhere is so effective because when it comes at us multiple different ways and multiple different times, we finally remember it. And we can either think of you when we need to solve that problem or when a friend does, we remember that you're the one that does that, so we refer you.  Amazing. Ooh, can we do it one more time, because I also have a secret dream. Everyone listening knows this of being a matchmaker. So maybe just real quick with our silly example.  Oh my gosh, that's so fun. Okay, great. Okay. Who are your clients? Who do you, in a perfect world, let's be really defined. Are they women, men, both age group?  My clients are women who are 30 plus who have had success in their business and are just beautiful queens, and their problem is that they're just really struggling to find someone on the same level as them.  I'll let you know when I launch my beta version of my offering.  I'm totally in. Awesome. I'll be your beta client. Yeah, keep me in the loop. What a fun side gig. Okay, so tell me, I know this is kind of still a formulation in your mind, but how are you going to solve that problem for them? And you can pretend if you haven't done it, just pretend. Yeah,  I'm going to solve that problem for them by doing a lot of the prep work, a lot of the vetting work so that when they show up on a date, they know someone is kind and qualified and has their own career and is a good catch. So I feel like that means doing some bumble swiping for them, finding those initial matches, dealing with all of the hey you up texts. Someone gets to be the buffer for all of that silliness, and so they have serious qualified dates that they get to. Yeah, it saves them a ton of time. So much time.  Okay, so let's go through this. So many good nuggets in here. So the problem is that many successful career women over 30 struggle to find someone on their same level struggle to find a partner, a mate.  Yeah. A partner that shares their vision and goals or something.  Dates that don't waste their time. Can we make it funny? They just struggle to find dates that don't waste their time.  Yes, totally. Or you know what? We could even start with many successful career women over 30, waste a lot of time on dates with duds.  We might as well. We might as well. Okay. This is purely for fun, but you could probably totally use this too. So the time, the problem is really time.  I think that's the problem of like, oh my gosh, I just texted with this guy for three months and now he tells me he doesn't want to be in a relationship. What?  True. Oh, totally. No, I think anyone dating's totally going to buy into this. Okay, so now we want to introduce you as the guide and your service as the solution. So let's finish a sentence that starts with my matchmaking method. Clears the clutter and vets the best guys. What else are they going to happen? They're going to find a good catch. What else? What's their life going to look like once they meet their,  Okay, this is the vision after. Yeah. It's almost like even if it's not once they meet their match, but even just when they're dating people that are fun to be around, even if that's the result of going on dates that are enjoyable and intellectually stimulate, you're just like, so let's see if you're, our matchmaking method clears the clutter.  You can date like an adult. Is that too jerky? I feel like that was just really,  No, not at all. There was a woman, have you ever heard of the Garbage Post challenge? It's this social media. Have you heard of it? Yeah. Somebody did a shift on that where they called it the Garbage Bitch Challenge, and so she just had strong opinions and she was tired filtering herself for 30 days. She did a hundred posts of just her what her truth was. Oh  It was really refreshing, I think. Okay, so okay, we're getting close here. So many career women over 30, waste a lot of time on dates with duds. My matchmaking method clears the clutter and vet's. Vet's the best guys. So you can enjoy every date and find your perfect match.  Amazing. I love that. Yeah. I think enjoy every date.  Right. People would pay for that. Just knowing they would enjoy every date. Would  I like it because it doesn't over promise. I'm going to find you, your dream person, but you're going to value their time and they're not going to be wasting their time on dates that are just completely a mismatch.  Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's perfect. Okay, so we did the identify your client and the problem How you guide, and then what's number four?  Four is combine them all together, pick your favorite ones. So we've done the three steps, and then the fourth one is just take your favorite from the problem. Take your favorite from the solution and take your favorite from the success. Combine them all together and into one little encapsulated nugget that will sell for you, and also just make you feel super confident when someone says, Hey, what do you do? So I want to hear you say it. Can you remember it?  Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Also, this is the message to all the single gentlemen out here. If you would like to be on my qualified dating list. Okay. Here it's,  Okay. Many career women, successful career women over 30,  Time. Oh, waste. A lot of time dating, duds. But my matchmaking method clears a lot of the, what was the word we used? It was so good. Clutter. Clutter. There's a lot of the clutter. So you can enjoy every date and meet the match of your dreams.  Find your perfect match. Love it. Amazing. I would hire me.  Thank you. Okay, so you're listening. I hope you have at least some ideas of how to make your elevator pitch, at least some problems, maybe workshop them together with some solutions. But this has been so fun. Thank you for helping us do this. I need to go back and rework all of my elevator pitches now.  Yeah. And I have a freebie that will walk you through this process with a Google Doc that will also kind of prompt you and guide you. So once you have that Google doc, you can just keep it handy and repurpose it anytime you want to do this. It will guide you through the process. And then there's a five minute video walking you through just the nuggets that you need to know.  Amazing. Okay. Is that at, I know we'll have the link in the show notes, but is that red door designs.com?  Yeah, red door designs.com. That's red. R-E-D-D-O-O-R designs, D-E-S-I-G-N s.com. And that freebie is there. It's called How to Write Compelling Copy in Five Minutes Flat. And then I have another offer on there that will help you write your website copy in two and a half hours flat.  Oh my gosh. Okay. Cool. Well, kris, anything you want to leave our audience with a little encouragement or motivation to get out there and crush their website, copy or tell better stories? What can you leave us with?  I think the best thing to remember is just to let yourself off the hook with how hard it is to write for your own self. We're so close to our own businesses, we're kind of inside the bottle and we're trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. So I want you guys to know that this is true for every business owner. We all struggle with writing for ourselves. And the best thing you can do to make yourself the guide and your customer the hero, is to write down the problems that your clients have. And just keep talking about that over and over, and you'll be in really good shape.  Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being on this episode of The Dangerous Creatives podcast. We can't wait to keep following along with what you do. And if you tuned in, thanks for joining us again. It always is so fun to have you here. So thank you so much, kris.  Much. This episode was produced and edited by the lovely Jen Madigan. Creative music for this episode was written and recorded by Jamie Lno and Shammy d. Thanks for being part of our Dangerous Creatives podcast community, and we'll see you again next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/relationships-rule ### Title: Writing Compelling Copy with a StoryBrand Guide, with Janice Porter and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5031392 ### Content: ## Writing Compelling Copy with a StoryBrand Expert ## Relationships Rule Podcast, with Janice Porter and Kris Jones Writing Compelling Copy with a StoryBrand Guide, with Janice Porter and Kris Jones **Do you sometimes struggle to differentiate yourself from your competitors online?** In my recent enlightening conversation with Janice Porter, we simplify the StoryBrand Framework.  **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Understand the psychology of storytelling and the importance of being clear over clever. ✨ Discover this powerful strategy that can deepen real connections with your audience ? The shift you must make to connect to people viewing your site on mobile devices. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Are you ready to grow your business by building relationships online and offline? Are you looking for a system to attract new prospects and nurture your past clients? Maybe you're a business owner, a sales professional, or an entrepreneur? If you are, then great. Join me, Janice Porter as we blast past your barriers to success and explore the power of relationships for your business. And welcome to the Relationships Rule podcast. Hello and welcome to the Relationships Rule podcast. I'm your host, Janice Porter. Welcome back. For those of you who subscribe to my podcast and welcome to anybody new who's listening today. My special guest this week is Kris Jones. And first of all, welcome to the show, Kris.  You are most welcome. My audience would probably love to know a little bit about you, so I'm just going to say a little bit and let you fill in the rest, really. You are a StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Designs, and I've had a couple of people that I've talked to about StoryBrand, and I still haven't fully done the entire thing myself, but I'm fascinated. I did read the first half of his book, I'm going to be honest, the Donald Miller book, and you were mentored by Donald Miller, the author of Building a StoryBrand. Correct yourself? Yeah. That's exciting. And you've had over 20 years of experience with clients like Nike and Adidas and are extremely passionate about helping small business owners and service providers get website copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. And Kris, I know this is a common problem with small business owners.  We try to do everything ourselves and we think we can write about ourselves, but that's probably difficult to do from the right perspective that will help sell. I guess I know that a little bit because of the copy I help people with on their LinkedIn profiles, but I know it's a little bit different when it comes to their website. So tell me what it is that you find you can be the most of service the most to people, because what are the common mistakes they make or what are the common things that they get stuck on?  Well, you're touching on a really, really important part that as business owners, we go into business for ourselves because we really love the work that we do, and we're really good at it and we want to do more of it. And what we don't realize is that being self-employed means having to do a lot of writing, whether it's emails or your website or social media posts, all the writing that goes in with being self-employed. And what you really want to do is the work that you love. You don't want to be bogged down by all this kind of BSS writing that you don't want to deal with. We thought we were done with school and exactly your papers, but we're not. And so what happened was, for me, I started out in the website design business and brand design business. And what I found over the years is number one, I watched my clients struggle and struggle and struggle to try and write for themselves.  And I can relate. It was hard for me to write about my own business for many, many years. And so what I learned over time, back in the early days of the internet, if you had a beautiful website design and some nice photography, you were golden. But nowadays that will only get used so far. Design can only get used so far. You have got to have copy, strategic copy that actually sells for you in order to succeed. And there's a thing called that I call the bottle effect. And what that is, is when you're too close to your own business, it can feel really impossible to talk about it because you're inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. Oh, I love that analogy. That's awesome. Yeah, and Genesee mentioned that it's a little bit different for your website than it is for LinkedIn.  It's actually not. It's just plain hard to write about ourselves because we are the business and we are just too close to it to have that perspective. And so I really love letting people off the hook around that because even people who consider themselves great writers have this same struggle. I talked with an author the other day who she is an author, she's written multiple parenting books, but again, she's so close to her own business that she can't talk about it. So it's a really, really common problem. And I finally got to a point where I'm just like, I'm on a mission to crack the code around how to make this easier and not such a struggle. And that's how I got connected with StoryBrand, actually got connected with Donald Miller and was connected with him prior to that book even coming out, really. And I just believed in the approach. So fundamentally, because it's about storytelling and storytelling is not a fad that comes and goes, it's part of our DNA and our wiring. It's how our brains work, it's how we connect with people, it's how we establish resonance with people. And you cannot sell or get a new client, or no one's going to want to work with you if they don't trust you and resonate with you.  Absolutely. So let me ask you this because I understand you're right, there is a similarity, but when I'm thinking about website copy, and perhaps I'm just thinking of one page on your website, the about section, which is about you, it's written from a different perspective or a different point of view, same thing as your about section on your LinkedIn profile. So very often I see people on LinkedIn saying, I'm this, I'm that. I'm wonderful. I've done all this, these are my credentials, and whatever. Nobody caress about that. They only care about what you can do for them. So does that apply with the website copy as well?  Okay. You do have to on your website, I feel that there's more of a, well, there's a different place on LinkedIn to put all your accolades as well, but on your website, is that there as well, but in a different place?  Well, let's be honest, people only really care about themselves and that's not a bad thing. So the about section on your website, I recommend you write your about section as it relates to your ideal client, what they care about, which is the way you're writing your LinkedIn profiles too. So it's the same thing. A lot of people really want to tell their story. Here's the history, and my grandfather founded this company, number one, nobody caress. I'm so sorry. I know, but nobody caress. And number two, if you really want to put that on your website, put it on a separate page that's different from the homepage. And then the 1% of people that really want to dig deeper, it's there for them if they want it. But yeah, that's my,  Okay. So we're really on the same page in so many ways. Okay. Can you give me two or three specific examples? I'm kind of putting you on the spot, but where you might shift somebody's content or how you would write it, how you see it written, and then how you would change it so that it converts better, it sells you better or sells your business better. So like a before and after kind of thing?  Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I'm a big believer in clear over, clever. Everybody is overwhelmed. We don't have a lot of free time. And so when somebody lands on your website, you want to tell them what you do and who you do it for. And they need to be able to understand that without any effort, without their brain having to burn any calories to figure it out. And that's one of the most important things that you can do is just state what you do and who you do it for. So on a website that, let's just say it's a coaching website, somebody might write a open up to new possibilities. And that to me is just vague. I don't know what you're doing. Are you a travel company? I don't know what you do. I have no idea what you do. So it's just, it's probably pretty, I'm sure there's a pretty picture in the background, but often the picture in the background isn't related to the actual work itself either. So if it's like a vista of a mountain and it's okay, are we going hiking? What's going on? And so what I would recommend for that coach would be more along the lines of I help or I coach women over 50 to nail the next phase of their life.  Okay. So right away, if I'm that person, I'm going to dig deeper, and if I'm not, I'll probably go somewhere else.  You want to repel the people that are not your right fit. That's part of good copy.  Exactly. Okay. Well, so how does StoryBrand work into how you work with people every time? I know there's a StoryBrand  Framework, thank you. Yes. And so is that you do that pretty much all the time? Yeah,  So that's the work that I do all the time has a seven part framework, and they've essentially broken it down to seven ingredients that are part of every story you've ever read. Every movie you've ever watched, any good story that anyone's ever told you verbally, they all stories begin with a hero who has a problem that they don't know how to overcome. And then that hero meets a guide who has a solution, and together they reach the guide, helps the hero find success. And that's a simplified version. Yes, of  Course, of course. But I know I often, I'll be watching a movie and I'll go, I've seen this movie before, but you haven't seen that movie before, but you've seen that plot before. I still say it. There's only five plots in the whole world, and five people own the whole world as well, by the way, as another aside today, like man versus man, man versus animal, and there's all these different, right? There's only so many plots. So I understand that, but I'm not really, this is why you do what you do, and I don't do it because I don't know how to bring that out and into such a way as writing copy. So there's an art to it. I'm totally sure.  Yeah, there is. I mean, the beautiful thing about story is that the components and the framework is the same, but there is no two stories are the same. And everybody has their own unique story, and it's my job to pull out and extract those nuggets and those core elements and then weave them together like a puzzle. And I think that's why I love the work that I do so much because it's continually like this brain puzzle that can be solved and create something fresh and new every time.  Yeah, I totally get that because I didn't think that I could write. But when it comes to working with my LinkedIn clients and I work with them to reframe their about section, which is really the piece about them, I think that I'm doing a little bit of that without knowing it in the sense that I'm trying to find what's unique about them. Because if they're a mortgage broker, for example, I work with a lot of mortgage brokers, there's a zillion of them. But what makes you unique, right? Everybody is attracted to people for whatever reason. So you do have something that makes you stand out from the crowd. I remember talking to a woman before Kristmas who she is a mortgage broker, and we were going through this process and she told me that her biggest thing was being able to help people in her community, which is the Filipino community, and especially people who have come over here and now are finding a new world and a new life here. And quite often they have family still back in the Philippines, but this became the thread of what would make her unique to other people. So I just remember that as being something I could feel it in her when she was talking about it. So that must be really enlightening and satisfying for you when you do it too  Very much. It's really, really fun and fun. It's great to collaborate with people. I think I find that the copy is so much better in a collaborative environment. And I think what I love most is just the relief that I witness on my clients' faces when they finally can check it off their list. They know their website copy is working for them and selling for them, and they don't have to deal with it anymore. I think the one thing that I hear a lot that I don't talk about this a lot, but the byproduct of doing this work is that you essentially have a copy bible that you can go back to for your brand or your business and copy and paste from the, we together develop what I call a wire frame. So it's like a roadmap for your website, and then you've got access to that document, and anytime you need to write anything for your business, you go back to that document and copy and paste it. So all the language that you're going to need for all your marketing.  That's very cool. So do you work mostly one-on-one with people then? Do you work with them or do you do it for them? You just said you like to collaborate, but you probably do a bit of both. I don't know.  I find that two things typically happen when it comes to writing copy. Number one, people try and d DIY it themselves, and it's just a pain in the neck. And like I said, that bottle effect can make it really paralyzing. And then the other thing that happens is people spend a lot of money. I've met with people who spend 10,000 on a sales page. I've talked with someone who spent 40,000 on a sales page, which is just over the top, but  It didn't perform better than the page that she had done herself. Oh my. I know. So what happens is people finally get to a point in their business where they're like, okay, I'm going to hire someone else to do it for me, and I'm sure it's going to be great and work and be so effective. And ultimately what happens often is there's a lot of back and forth, a lot of edits because when somebody goes to write for you and they go away in a silo and do that, it's really hard to capture your voice. And so often your copywriter comes back and it doesn't feel like you, which is one thing if you're a big corporation, but it's different when you're the business. It really needs to resonate with you and your voice and just the nuances of your industry and the details about your clientele that really only. And so the way I have essentially solved that problem is through a collaborative approach. So I do write the website for you because it's so hard to write for yourself. But then after I've written it, we do a 90 minute collaborative call and we go through each section and just refine it, tweak it, refine it, tweak it until it's completely nailed. And then you've got everything you need for your website.  So when you're doing that for your client, when you're doing the writing, first writing, do you always do the framework first? Do you interview them and do you find out about them  More? Yes. Yeah. So I have a process that I have my clients go through with an intake form and some videos that accompany that intake form, and that takes about 45 minutes to an hour for them to do some prep work that allows me to gather the information I need to write the site. And then we do the collaboration call. The entire process takes my clients two and a half hours total. So the one hour of prep work and then the 90 minute call and it's done.  Wow. And I see, yeah, I guess so I'm thinking, how much could you get to know someone in that time? But then I do the same thing in the sense, so you're getting to know them as you're working. Yeah, that makes sense. Alright, I have to ask you this. With all the buzz that's going on with the chat, GBT and all that copywriting, AI and blah, blah, blah, open ai, what's your take on it? Have people come to you and ask you and they now, has it gotten yet to the point where people are suspicious, right? Are you doing this yourself or are you using chat, GPT, whatever? I mean, I've tested it. It's kind of fun, but I  Think it's really an exciting time, honestly. I think it's really cool. Like you said, it's really fun and I think I'm going to be doing a workshop on how to use chat GT Good and how to basically leverage that and guide it like the ai, it does need your guidance. I think it can definitely support the process, but it's not going to be a press a button and it's done, especially if you want to tell a story. I think it's always going to require some strategy and guidance, but I think it's going to be a cool revolutionary tie. It's a revolutionary,  But I think from what I heard two years behind in terms of the information that it has, and also when I've tested it with text it, if you give it the framework, it really just regurgitates it back to you. But I'm just playing with if I was playing with a title or something. So that actually is something I wanted to ask you as well, but I just wanted to hear your thoughts on it because it's definitely the topic of the month for sure. I've been watching some programs on it on Sunday morning, CBS Sunday morning, and they did one last week or the week before about art through the, and that was fascinating. It's completely different.  It's amazing. I mean, the type of images that it can create with little bit of guidance. I mean, that could just, that's the new version of Bingeing on Netflix. You could just binge on image creation forever.  Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So interesting. So, okay, I saw something on your website, I think it was on your website. Oh, it was a video I saw somewhere from your website and I loved it. And so I want you to talk to me about, it was I think your intro video and you strummed a little instrument and saying, build me up buttercup. And I thought, number one, you've got a really nice voice, and number two, you're telling, you're making a point here. So can you share that with my audience, the point?  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the point of that is really about, well, the idea that if somebody didn't know how to play the guitar and started strumming chords, it would sound like noise. And that is what is the most of the internet. The copy on the internet is just a bunch of noise. It's not really doing anything. It doesn't pull you in and it doesn't entice you to engage with it.  Where when you play a song, whether it be on the ukulele or guitar or any instrument, there are certain chords that are played and certain notes that are played together. And when you know which chords to strum, then it becomes music. And so it's the same instrument, but one is noise and one is music. And so it's really about understanding the different notes to play together. And I would liken that to the different components of storytelling when they're all put together. They make beautiful music that pull people in that want to learn more and want to engage with you,  But it also brings out a unique flavor by doing something that people aren't expecting.  I thought that was fun. I really liked it. So when people are looking for, I need you to do a landing page or a sales page for me, that will really sell my course. Okay. So today, does that mean it's one of those pages that goes on and on and on and on where you've got to buy here and then it's buy here again? And if you haven't got them by the, is that what that means still? Is that still a thing?  Well, think of it like this. People, especially on mobile people, it's much easier to scroll than it is to bounce around from page to page. So early days of the internet, there would be, I don't know, 8, 10, 12 pages with dropdown menus, and every page would have a pair text. And that's just not conducive to the way people use mobile phones and the way people read websites anymore. So it's really effortless to scroll down a page. I do believe in a long format sales page and even a long format homepage, because I like number one to take a comprehensive approach. I think it's not that hard to have a one-page website. When you integrate your about page and you integrate your services into the homepage, you're basically anticipating the information that people are looking for and wanting. And when it's done in the right order with strategy behind it, you're really spoonfeeding them the information they need when they need it, which builds trust. I don't like long format pages just for the sake of filling up the space. That's not good. But when there's clear story being told and you're overcoming objections and you're telling a story, then it doesn't feel like you're scrolling forever. It's just  Does that mean that my website that has five or six pages is dated and I just had it done a few months ago?  No, it definitely doesn't mean that. I really do believe that if your homepage is done well, the whole goal of your website is to get people to schedule a call with you or engage with you in some way. And I believe that if your homepage is done well and it tells a story that it will do just that. My goal and what happens for my clients is that by the time people reach the bottom, if they even get that far, they've already clicked that schedule a call button. And so if you have more pages than that, it's not a bad thing. It's just a lot of people won't go to those other pages because they get their first impression. They don't have a lot of time to bounce and dive deeper into it. So you might as well design and write according to the way people are using the website, but it's by no means outdated. I think there are certain people who really like to read through every detail of every website. I would say 99% of the population doesn't read the website. They scan the website. So it needs to be written in a way that if someone is quickly scanning it on their mobile phone, that you're getting that information across. And it takes a lot of effort and energy to actually write less and to write with simplicity than it does to just throw a lot of text on a page.  Well, and I think on LinkedIn, it's the same thing when people connect with you. By the way, you owe me a connection on LinkedIn. It's been pending for a while there. I can tell you don't go over there very often, but that's okay. But when people start to connect with you and want to have a conversation, they've never gone below what I call the fold. And what someone said to me yesterday was now the scroll. But basically they don't, they just look at the first bit and that's it. But there's so much more if a LinkedIn profile is done properly that you can find out from the idiosyncrasies in the bottom part of the profile. And so I totally understand what you're saying. There's a little bit of a similarity. I'm just not into the sales jargon copy world, more about just putting the best you out there really is the way I've been looking at it because it's a little bit different.  Yeah, I mean, I think it's really less about, I mean, of course there are a lot of people that do sales jargon and everyone's kind of trying to figure it out and find their way. But in my opinion, it really comes down to when you tell a story, you're building trust, and you're building resonance, and you're beginning a relationship, you're inviting your potential customer into a narrative with you where you're the guide and they're the hero, and that is just irresistible to the human brain.  Oh, that's so cool. So I have to ask you this off topic. So you have a couple of children, I think two.  Boy. One, one boy. How old is he? Five. Five. And is he able to sit still long enough to hear stories now?  Okay. I have a granddaughter who's three and a half, and it's really hard to keep her still. Okay. But I love telling stories and in particular kids stories, reading stories. I love reading stories to kids. So does let you read to him and do you read him stories?  I do, yeah. Before bed, we just started our first chapter book.  Oh, that's early for a chapter book. What chapter book?  Oh, it's called Ava Wing's Diary. It's about a owl and it's age appropriate. It's really,  But I love children's books and I love the stories, and that's where you see the pureness of a story and of the simplicity that a child gets it when it's so like the Big Hungry Bear or the Big Hungry Caterpillar, those stories are just priceless because they're so simple and clear about the problem and the hero. Right. So I was just curious because, so what's your favorite children's book?  Oh, nice. By Shell Silverstein. Shell Silverstein. Yeah.  I really love The Hungry Caterpillar. That's a big,  That's the one I love with my granddaughter. And we have another one. We do The Big Hungry Bear, which I pulled out of my closet, I think I used to read to her mom. And so it's an older book and it's not got hardcover pages, so we have to be very careful with it. But she tells me the story now. Yeah. So that's kind of fun.  And so Shell Silverstein poems. I love where the Sidewalk Ends, but I go back to when I was a kid and I read my granddaughter now, and as I read my kids aa mil poems when we were six and when we were five or something like that, and not, he wrote, we Need The Pooh. Right. Are you familiar with AA mill? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Because English, so I'm not sure. But his poems are so much fun about Kristopher Robin and going to the Palace and very British. But it's kind of fun. And I know I digressed because I thought you would enjoy talking about story makes me think of children's literature, which is so much fun. And it made me think of one more thing about stories. So I'm a Jeopardy fan, I love Jeopardy. And on Jeopardy, the other night there was a category that was nursery rhymes, and none of them got them. Right. I think one got a right answer because we don't tell nursery rhymes to our kids anymore. There's too much stuff out there. I know. That just blew me away.  Who does? He are the three people that he gets the sheep, the wool or something. So you have to say it in your head, but you have to know it. Right,  Sheep have you any wool? Yes or yes, or three bags full? One for the  Master, one for the dameon, one for the little boy who lives down the link. Yes. But I know that I was, but no, I just thought that was really interesting. So that's something I'm aware of with my granddaughter. We do some of those. So anyway, as I said, I digress, but it's kind of Alright. Back to business. Here's a question that I love to ask my guests. Well, two actually. One, what are you reading now? Do you read? Do you listen? Do you watch? Which is it?  I typically listen and I love podcasts, so I listen to a lot of podcasts. What's your  Oh my gosh, I'm listening to one. Well, I like a lot of biohacking kind of stuff. I listen to one called Ben Greenfield. I love,  That's so weird. Why? That's my maiden name. Greenfield.  I really love pulling the thread with Elise Lowen. I really love Mel Robbins podcast. Oh  Haven't, no. My friend gave me her planner or her kind of journal, but I haven't used it yet. And I love, we can do hard things with Glennon Doyle.  Oh, I dunno that either. So that's kind of fun. We can hard things.  Oh, good. And then if you're really wanting good storytelling, the best storytelling podcast is called Snap Judgment Best Storytelling. Their tagline is Storytelling with a Beat because they do an original score with every story that they tell.  Yeah, I haven't, the only one that was story, and it was actually a true crime that I listened to was amazing. Was Serial. Yes. Yeah. And it was about a murder down in the south or it was really good. And I couldn't stop listening, so I'll check this out. Thank you. And my other favorite question, which I like to ask you is about the word curiosity. So it's a two-part question. Do you you believe that curiosity is innate or learned? And what are you most curious about these days?  Days? Oh my gosh. Cool Questions. I a hundred percent believe curiosity is innate.  There is no doubt in my mind, especially if you've raised children, you watch them as babies. I mean, there's nothing but curiosity there. And then what am I curious about right now? Gosh, so many things. I think that's part of my issue is that I'm just so curious and I think that's why I love the work that I do. It's just never the same thing twice. I'm very curious now about this. There's a new methodology. It's probably not that new. I really, like I mentioned Ben Greenfield. I love the subject of psychology and healing. And I think if I were to clone myself or be born again at some point, I would be a psychologist. And I think part of why, another reason I love the work is there's a lot of psychology involved in the work that I do. But anyway, there's an approach called IFS that I'm very curious about. The theory is it's called Internal Family System. And the theory is that we all have kind of our own family inside of ourselves, and we have these different family members that show up in different ways. It's like, if you've ever heard of that, what's it called? Multiple personality disorder. It's like an extreme version of it. But I  You could think of it that way too. Or we all have multiple inner children within us that have decided to have, we have needed to create different phases of our lives. And so it's a lot about just reconnecting with those. I just find that the approach fascinating and fun, and I do some of their meditations. So anyway, very curious about that right now.  Oh good. That's awesome. And you're one of those people that is still curious and hasn't had it beaten out of you so many people, so that's awesome. Well, this has been a delight. And so just before we close, and I know that there's a couple of things that I'm going to put in the show notes that I'll mention about your work, but just before we close, do you have one final tip for my audience about copywriting?  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the number one tip is that the reason it's hard is because you're so close to your own business. And I think the biggest gift that you can give yourself is to get an outside perspective, whether that be a family member, a neighbor or friend, or a professional, just to kind of be able to look at you from outside that bottle so you're not stuck inside the bottle. So I think that would be the main thing. And then when it comes to story, I definitely recommend reading Donald Miller's building a StoryBrand book. But the key takeaway around that is that you are the guide and your clients are the hero, or your customers or clients are the heroes. So if you just keep that in mind when you're writing anything, it does take the pressure off of having to write about yourself all the time. And then you get to put yourself in their shoes and communicate in a different way.  Thank you. That was great. You've got two things that you offered for us to take a look at. I think. Learn how to write a compelling copy in five minutes flat. Yes.  Yeah. So I offer two main things. One of them is called How to Write Compelling Copy in Five Minutes Flat. That's a video and a worksheet, and you can schedule a call with me to get my feedback on that. Oh,  Or if you're just done trying to write your own copy and you want to get it done in two and a half hours flat, you and I can write it for you and then you and I collaborate on on it together. All of that stuff can all be found at one place, which is red door designs.com. That's Red Door Designs with an s@theend.com.  Perfect. I will put those things in the show notes. And again, thank you for being my guest today. It was very informative as well as fun, and I always like to get to know my guests a little bit with an offhand question. So for me, that was fun. I hope it was okay for you. And thank you to my audience as usual for being here. If you like what you heard, please leave a review and go visit Kris at her website. Thank you so much, and remember to stay connected and be remembered.  Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. If this show has inspired you to reach out, to connect to someone new or nurture a current or past relationship and you think that others can benefit from listening, please share at this episode. If you have feedback or questions about the episode, please leave a note in the comments sections below. If you would like to receive automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or Stitcher, or from the podcast app on your mobile device. Ratings and reviews from my listeners are extremely valuable to me and greatly appreciated. They help the podcast rank higher on iTunes, which exposes my show to more awesome listeners like you. So if you have a minute, please leave an honest review on iTunes and remember to stay connected and be remembered. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/amplify-ambition ### Title: Website Copy That Sells, with Kristen Edwards and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5047111 ### Content: ## Website Copy That Sells ## Amplify Ambition Podcast, with Kristen Edwards and Kris Jones Website Copy That Sells, with Kristen Edwards and Kris Jones **Do you ever feel that your copy fails to resonate with your potential clients?** I get it. In my recent enlightening conversation with Kristen Edwards, we delved deep into how to get website copy that truly works. **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn the power of positioning yourself as the guide, not the hero, in your business narrative. ? Uncover a proven two-and-a-half-hour process to write website copy that resonates and converts. ⏰ Find out how clarity in your messaging can give you 5 hours of free time each week. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Welcome to Amplify Ambition. I'm Kristen Edwards, strategy Consultant and your Guide to Making Confident Decisions. This podcast allows you to accelerate your personal and professional development while growing a profitable online business. Let's dive in because your next level of success is within reach once you decide to dream loudly.  So I'm really excited to welcome Kris Jones to the show today.  Today. Absolutely. And so before we dive into really what you do and how you help people, I think it's important for us to bring all of who we are to the surface. And so what's that thing that you are truly passionate about, but it's not technically a part of the brand that we see on social media or on your website?  Something I'm truly passionate about, I'm really passionate about freedom and I think that's why I have become an entrepreneur. I just am crazy about freedom, and I think it's kind of twofold because I help people become entrepreneurs or find more success as entrepreneurs, but underneath all that is just, I want you to have the freedom that I have because it is so good.  I love that. I think that that always lends to one the greatest setup of a podcast. I'm like, I'm here for freedom. But for you to also have that mission as an underlying part of not just the work that you're doing, but how you're also trying to live your own life. And I think depending on it, we either get too wrapped up in making those two things the same or we compartmentalized life and business so much, but for that thread of freedom to just kind of be at that essence of probably why you started your business, it was either money or time freedom or just that flexibility in both of those allow you to make those choices for yourself. So I'm excited for where this is going to go.  All right, so what got you started in the work that you are doing? You help people with their StoryBrand writing their website. Honestly, I really want to know where Red Door Designs came from, but really what got you started on this journey?  Alright, well, way back actually two decades ago now, I started out doing graphic design. I worked for a lot of, well-known companies, big corporations in a cubicle, kind of the opposite of freedom at the time. And I could tell it was kind of not life-giving for me. I kind of knew if I stay here too long, my health will probably suffer and I won't be very happy. And so at the time I was really focused on storytelling through design and I decided to leave. I was at Nike at the time and I decided to leave Nike and kind of hang up my own shingle. And that's when I came up with Red Door designs and the color Red symbolizes passion, which I'm a very passionate person and I'm also very passionate about the work that I do. But the Red Door is really well known for representing hospitality and good fortune.  And I think all of those values really encompass still today, right? 20 years later, it's like they still just resonate with who I am and the work that I do. So that's kind of where it all began way back then. And over time I did more and more design work. I got better and better helping more and more clients doing. I got really into website design. I found that I really loved the work and I loved how powerful it could be in helping my clients grow. That being said, I started to realize this common problem that pretty much every client had when they came to me, which was we meet, we talk about their website project. This was kind of back in the day when you could have a website and if it were designed well, it didn't really need to have any good words on it.  It didn't need to be well written and you could get clients and you could grow your business with a beautiful site, but it didn't have to be written well. And so that was all good with me. I was all about the design. But then eventually that kind of shifted and literally a hundred percent of the clients that I would work with would say, I'd say, okay, we're going to start your project on this date and I'm going to need the words that you want on your website by the week prior to that date. And they'd be like, what do you want me to say? What should I write? And I'd be like, you'll figure it out. You got this. Just talk a little bit about yourself. And then what would happen is the project would get moved back because the client was struggling so much with writing their website or they would get it to me, but they were pulling their hair out during the process.  And sometimes they would give me pages and pages and pages of content that I was like, oh my gosh, this is now the editor a week of editing. And I didn't realize this at the onset of the project. So what happened was I made it my mission to craft the code on how to write really simple and clear website copy that was effective, that helped people grow really effectively. Like what's the point of writing a website or even having a website if it's not really a powerful tool for growth? And my belief is that your website is really your most powerful tool for growing your business and evolving the work that you do. So that was in 2017, I became a StoryBrand guide. If anybody hasn't read the book Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller, they should a little bit like go get it or put it on audio.  I love listening to books like that while I'm doing the dishes or whatever. But that book really helped me delve deep into storytelling, what makes a good story and how to translate storytelling into marketing copy. And so even now, people read the book and they're like, okay, I get it. I get why story is important. That's not a foreign concept in today's culture, but what's really challenging is how to write a story for yourself or for your own business that really works. And the reason it's such an issue is because of this thing that I like to call the bottle effect. Whereas business owners, we are just stuck inside of our own bottle and we're trying to read a label on the bottle that can only be read by someone who's outside the bottle. And no matter how hard we try, we can't get out of the bottle.  And so that's why it's really important to, number one, let yourself off the hook because it's hard for everybody. And now you kind of know why it's so hard. And also to get help to have somebody help give you the perspective that you need. And that is literally why I'm on this earth, is to really be outside your bottle and to help you read it with clarity and ease and craft a story that connects with your ideal audience, but also that really feels aligned to you. And what I saw happen for many years in my industry was even with my own business where I would focus on the design and then I'd hire a copywriter or my client would hire a copywriter and the writer with the best of intentions would go write the copy in a silo and give it back to their client. And it was like, it just was out of alignment because you can't outsource your own voice, you cannot outsource your own voice. So what I developed was a collaborative approach to copywriting where together we work on it, you're not left alone, you're not left staring at a blank screen, pulling your hair out, and we walk through the process of storytelling and we craft your wire frame and we do it all in 2.5 hours flat. So it's a blast. It solves huge problem out there in the marketplace and it's really fun and powerful.  Yeah, I mean there's so much to unpack in that. And again, you started off with saying, I'm passionate about freedom and so how do I find the life that I want for myself? And as we start a business, regardless of the rules, and if you're following or not, every single person wants to have a website for their business, even the headline, it's what maybe four or five words and you're like, what do I put there? How am I going to do this? For me, the about page I think probably took me two and a half months to write in comparison to your two and a half hours. And so I definitely want to start to unpack how you help people unpack that with this framework. My biggest takeaway in what you're saying is this collaboration piece. Because a lot of times we think one of the two extremes, either I have to do it all by myself, and depending on what your natural or past writing experiences have been, there's a lot of mindset work to even again, open up that first document or there's a far extreme of you outsource it.  And even if you're outsourcing it to a copywriter, a good copywriter is going to sit down and say, well, tell me about yourself. Tell me about the work you do. They're going to ask you questions. And so to be able to unpack that, and I think my first website did take me two and a half months of really bad DIY, properly learned tools of writing, updating it. It was another two and a half months. And you're just constantly on that journey and you're saying, focus two and a half hours, I can help you get it all out of your brain and onto paper or truly onto your website. I mean a quarter of a day, not even half a day, a quarter of a day. So I want all the secrets. I want you to tell me everything that you know as well, but can you really start to share a little bit more about this story band brand framework and how that really helps you create a website that's going to actually do that work to convert, to attract clients, to bring people into your business?  I'll touch on briefly about the process. So the key thing to remember is that the information is all inside of you and you really just need somebody who knows how to extract the information and pull all that out of you and then put it together like a puzzle. So that's half the work of, that's really a big part of my job is after so many years of doing this, I know how to extract those storytelling components out of you. And then after I've extracted all that, then I write your page for you, I write a first draft of it and then we get on a collaboration call and we really dive deep into the nuances. You are the expert of your industry, you're the expert of the work that you do and the unique way that you do it. So I don't claim to be the expert on your business, and that's why it has to be collaborative, the words that your clients show up with and use and the struggles that they have.  And when it comes to the framework, the StoryBrand framework itself, it's really, it is the StoryBrand framework, but it's really much bigger than that. It's really how to tell a compelling story. And lots of people have written about the hero's journey and storytelling, and I have really just dumbed it down to the most simple three stages that every story has. And the first one is that every story begins with a hero that has a problem that they can't solve, and that hero then meets a guide that has a solution that's you. And then the hero experiences success and avoids failure because of the help from the guide. And the thing I want people to really take away here is that your client is the hero and you are the guide. And what I see, the mistakes that I see a lot all over the internet, 99% of the websites do this unintentionally. They make themselves the hero of their own website. And there's only room for one hero in every story. So instead of inviting your clients or customers into a story with you, when they land on your website, you boot them out of the story you've already claimed to be the hero of your story. And so what I really help my clients do is help establish them as the guide with the solution, then invite their clients into a narrative with them.  I love that. And I think it's one of those things that's easy to forget and to just kind of skip over of recognizing the person that you want to win is that client is the person that's going to come and work with you. And now we each again, as the expert of whatever industry you're in, you're saying, I know the three to five steps to help you achieve your goal. And so recognizing that as the business owner, we are facilitating that journey, but we are not the star of that journey along the way. I love how you're breaking that down. And I think a lot of times, again, especially as women, we just complicate everything and you're like, Nope, just switch it. That's all. And I think that's really where that time saving comes in is because you're saying, here is this formula, here is this framework to ensure that regardless of what industry you're in, regardless of how exactly you serve people, let them be the hero you're their guy, and then take them on that journey, share your story in a way that helps 'em see themselves on the page.  Feel like I could ask you a thousand more questions and I kind of want to, but what are some of the things that can help people to kind of realize this is how I can connect with my potential buyers, even like, okay, I've made them the hero. I understand what Kris has told me, but what is it that's in my story that helps that person see themselves on the page?  A really tangible way to start this process. If you just want to dip your toe in, then go to your website and write down or just open up a Google Doc and write down the problems that your clients experience. And you might come up with five or 10 or a few, hone it down to the biggest three problems that your customers face. And you can start, you've got your header on your website, which states what you do. And then right below that, get right into the problem the problem they're experiencing. So I usually, you can go to my website as an example of this, but what I typically do is I start that website out because every story begins with a hero that has a problem. So if you can articulate in a few bullets, three different problems that your customers are experiencing, so many cool powerful things happen in the brain.  Number one, they're like, okay, I feel seen and heard. I'm not alone in struggle. Number two, if this person can articulate my problem, they must be the best one to solve it. So they're immediately in an indirect way, you're building trust with them. They're realizing that you are the best one to solve this problem. I think that's really the power of that section. You want them to feel seen and heard. You want to build trust with them. And then you also, in the following section after that, you really want to show them what's possible. So you kind of want to do two sides of the same coin. On one side you talk about the problem, and then on the other side of the coin, which is that section right below that, you show them what's possible, what is possible for your life after you have a website that's bringing you leads, increasing your revenue, what's your life going to look like or whatever problem that you're solving, whatever they're hoping for their lives, make sure to make that clear.  I think the one thing that people often get wrong is they again, talk about themselves or they talk about features of working with them, but you really don't want to waste people's time with that. Let me share this. Everyone is scanning the world trying to figure out how to survive and thrive. It sounds negative when I say it this way, but everybody just cares about themselves. It's just how we're wired as humans. We care about our own success and we're constantly looking for ways to create more success in our lives. So it's really important that pretty high up on the page, you really spell it out in simple terms, three different ways. Their life is going to be better because they have solved this problem  On your website in different, it's literally saying, have a website that works as hard as you do, which means that my website is selling those people. And you've unpacked some of those things that help them feel seen and heard so that they're saying, she gets me, I trust her, I want to buy it from her. But what is it that you website is doing? Is there this again thing that we're just kind of naturally skipping over? This is what helps my website to sell for me.  I think that the clearer you are, the simpler you are. I mean, if you pick up your mobile phone and you scan through a website, you know how quickly you go through that website from top to bottom, and so you really want to design it and write it in a way that can be scannable. There's lots of things that you can do to increase your conversions, but I think that the overarching best thing you can do is just to keep things really simple, really clear. Help them understand very quickly what you do, what problem you solve, how you make their life better. And one of the most important things after you've done that is just a clear call to action. What do you want them to do next? And don't make it passive often we're like, learn more, accelerate or vague things like that. It's like, nope, call me, email me, schedule a call, start your project.  These are ways again that you can show up as the guide. A guide isn't passive. A guide wants to help you and the guide knows what next step you need to take in order to get the help that you need. And so if you can have a clear call to action and be consistent with it, don't have eight different calls to action on your website have one you want them to be, they're on your website, you want them to do one thing, you want them to reach out to you in some way, shape, or form.  I love that. And I think again, it's one of those things of like you're saying, keep it simple and be clear about it. And I think it's easy to think websites must have words. Let me throw 20,000 of them at sub. It's like, no, that's a book, that's not a website. But it's so easy to go to the far extreme and you're like, no, keep it simple and then tell them what to do next. So that was two tips, so thank you for the bonus on that as well as people are unpacking this and hopefully taking notes, I know I'm going to listen to this thing three more times and then go type up some tweaks on my website. What is that thing that you really want them to remember, not just this episode, but as they hear the name Kris Jones, they find you on social media. What is that legacy that you're really trying to create  Clarity? I think there is just so much overwhelm and confusion in the world today, and it's kind of a more is more society that we live in. And I just want to flip that whole thing on its head. Get clear, keep it simple. Also freedom. Get back to the full circle here, back to the freedom. Let your website do the heavy lifting for you so you can do the work you love and not spend a bunch of time trying to sell the work that you love.  That was so deep. Did everyone just hear that? You're like, oh, your website. Do the work. And I think that's again, especially if you're in the earlier stages of your business, it's so easy to get stuck on this hamster wheel of I need to sell more, I need to do more. And you're like, no, write a good website. I let the website do the work as well. So everything that you're saying, so much gold, so much truth. The people are listening and they're like, this is what I need. I need to stop trying to DIY. I want to take that next step and find the support that I need. How can they fund you and learn more about the work that you do and specifically hire you if that's what they want to do next?  Yeah, so if you are totally done with DIY and you want to have website copy that sells in two and a half hours flat, go to red door designs.com on there, you'll easily be able to click a button and work directly with me, one-on-one, you'll not be left alone trying to write your own copy. And if you are in a stage of your business where you do want to DIY it, there's a free beyond there that is a five minute toolkit to show you how to write your own compelling copy in five minutes.  I love that you are saving everyone. Time freebies will take you five minutes. Phenomenal offers that are like two and a half hours, not months or weeks or years as well. And I think that's one of those things that if you're really looking for freedom, stop wasting time. So two awesome things. I'll drop the links to all of those in the show notes as well. It's been fun watching you on Instagram the past couple weeks, and you're on some other social media platforms as well. But if someone is ready to jump in and again, stop with the DIY, get off that hamster wheel, have a website that does the work for you, then Kris Jones is definitely the person for you to connect with. But it's been great having you share your story and really creating that ripple effect of freedom as well. So thank you for being on today.  Thank you so much, Kristen. I love what you are creating and the way you navigate these podcasts is really refreshing and I love how you dive deep. You go deeper beyond the work. It's more about the purpose, and that's beautiful. Thank you.  Are you ready to be a dreamer and a doer? Individual consulting may be your next step. Together we'll build a strategic roadmap and develop your leadership skills so you grow a profitable business based on your natural strengths. Check out the links in the show notes to work with me or learn about this week's featured guest. And until next time, dream loudly. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/she-built-it ### Title: StoryBrand Copy That Sells, with Melanie Barr and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5047114 ### Content: ## StoryBrand Copy That Sells ## She Built It Podcast, with Melanie Barr and Kris Jones StoryBrand Copy That Sells, with Melanie Barr and Kris Jones **Have you ever struggled to create a captivating brand story that truly engages your audience?** In my recent conversation with Melanie Barr, we dove into the art of crafting stories that not only captivate but also drive results.  **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn why starting with this ONE thing is the key to an engaged reader. ? Discover StoryBrand hacks creating magnetic sales copy. ? Explore how storytelling helps your audience know you’re the right one to work with. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Our brains are wired for story and stories always begin with a character who has a problem. So when we begin our communications with the problem that our customers or our clients are having, we cannot help but engage.  Hi, I'm Melanie Barr. Welcome to the She Built It Experience with Melanie. You are here because you want to experience the life and business that you crave. Join me as I talk to women who have successfully built it a career and business that they love. We dive into the topic of how they built it and talk about everything from having the courage to make career leaps to the details of how to lead effectively, create successful teams, implement strategies for growth and infuse tech innovation. Magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy. So let's dive in. Thank you for joining us. Kris, you are the founder of Red Door Designs. Tell us about your business and what inspired you to launch it.  What inspired me to go out on my own was this innate fundamental core desire in me, even from a child to be self-employed. I was loving the work and I was I working with great companies, well-known companies, interesting agencies, but there was always this pull to do it on my own, and so I was young enough at the time and I didn't really have a lot of overhead and so I made the leap. I knew from day one I'm born to be a self-employed woman. That's how that came about. I started out as a visual storyteller and over time through doing more website work for my clients, I recognized the need and had a deeper desire to tell verbal stories with words and marry the visual side with the written word side. And I found when they were both telling the same cohesive story on a website for a client, it was the superpower that I gave them to grow their business. That's how it evolved.  I love that entrepreneurial spirit and you're right, we forget about telling our stories. We can be so into looking at the visuals that we're putting out on social, but are we thinking about our core story and our why or are we telling the story about why and how we got there to resonate with our clients?  Yes. And are we inviting our potential clients into a story with us where we play the character in that story as the guide and our leads play the character as the hero. So we always want to make them the hero, and so whether it's written or visual, we want to make that it's centered around where they are, what they want, and connecting with what they're struggling with. That's the simplest, most efficient way to use storytelling and social media or on your website and use it to grow your own business and also use it to help your clients  Fixing a problem and helping them achieve something.  If a client wanted to tell their story in a more powerful way, how would you advise them to start  With the problem that your customers are in the midst of? What are they struggling with? And our brains are wired for story and stories always begin with a character who has a problem. So when we begin our communications with the problem that our customers or our clients are having, we cannot help but engage. It's literally impossible for our brains to not get pulled into that story.  I love that you say we can't not engage because we forget that when we all do it naturally, but we don't always think about it as it relates to gaining our  Clients. No, we are just so distracted. Right? Everyone's got their own to-do list and especially when you're a woman and you're managing your own career, your profession, you're creating something your to-do list is a mile long. Your family's needing your time and attention. We're spread very thin, but when we go to a movie and we sit down in that chair, we don't think about any of that for 90 minutes. Literally, there is nothing else on this planet that can capture our attention for 90 minutes without looking at our phone, without chatting to somebody just totally pulls us in. And that is the power of story, and we can use those same principles in our marketing and to grow our business. It is this incredible, powerful tool that we can all use even verbally. If we're verbally telling somebody what we do for work, we can use story to do that.  And that's such a great example going to the movies because how good do we feel when we're walking out of the movie? It brings so many different thoughts into our head that we carry into the rest of the day or the rest of the week.  Totally. Yeah. We've gotten the gift of taking a break from our own brain for a little while, but we also, if a movie is done well, we really identify with that hero and we really get pulled into their struggles and how we can relate to their struggles, and then we get to watch them navigate the journey of overcoming that and getting to the end of the movie where they get live a better life or resolve their problems, find love, whatever it might be. But it's because we can identify with the characters. That's what makes it really compelling.  And I've been putting my phone in the other room, we're constantly getting notifications and I don't always want to turn those notifications off because it might be something I need one day, but then those other notifications sneak in, so it's so nice to have that mental break to even really think through the story that we want to craft for our business. What do you think is the most impactful part of storytelling?  The most impactful part of storytelling? It would be the fact that it provides hope for people. It's so wonderfully refreshing when you're struggling with a problem and you don't know how to solve it, and you go out into the world and you're asking people or you're looking on the internet for a solution to this problem, and then you find somebody who not only knows how to solve your problem, but they give you a clear plan for how to do it. That's hope and that's truly helping people. We're not just doing this work to make money. We want to really help people solve a problem, and that's when stories can get really interesting when there's authenticity in this story that touches people on such a deep level.  And I love that you said hope. We all need that help sometimes we all need it. And when you find it, it feels so good.  It's personal or business, we all need it in some aspect of our lives.  Yeah, we're trying to solve a problem. We are the hero and we're looking for a guide, and this can even happen between friends  And as women sometimes it can be hard for us to ask for the support that we need because we're so used to being very independent and I was just thinking about this earlier today. I talked to women around the world and I love it when they say they've looked at their leadership and they've looked at what they're great at and then they've looked into where they need to improve. And it always is so inspiring when I see a woman dive into the areas where they want to improve.  Totally. Yeah, it's hard to do. And often there's a thing in marketing called the bottle effect, and it's this idea that we are in our own story. We're so close to our own selves, we're so close to our own business that it's really hard to read the label of the bottle. We're inside the bottle, but the label can only be read from the outside. When we keep our challenges to ourself, we're really marinating in the struggle and we might talk to our husband about it or somebody that's in the bottle with us too close, right? You're in the bottle. I'm in the bottle. We should probably talk to someone outside the bottle. So that's why female friendships are just so essential in life. For that reason,  You teach your clients to write compelling copy that skyrockets sales. How do you suggest to clients how to go about writing magnetic sales  Copy? I'm a big believer in the StoryBrand framework. I think if you're curious about story, I would definitely recommend the book Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller. I also have a freebie that shows you how to write compelling copy in five minutes. So it's this useful way of gathering the information and doing it that will change the way you write about your business. Every story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. Then they eventually meet a guide that has a solution as a business owner that is you, and you want to position your service as the solution. And then at the end of this story, the hero solves the problem because they've followed the guides plan and they experience joy and success and whatever they're trying to accomplish. So that's the most simple version of every story you've ever heard, watched, read, and I would highly recommend following that same framework for how you communicate about your business.  So whether it's your website or anything else, whether you're answering the question, what do you do or you're writing on your website, you want to start with the hero's problem when you get on the phone with your clients. So when you talk to them, what are they telling you that they're struggling with and write that down, write down five-ish things that they're struggling with and start your page, start your website with that instead of a paragraph about yourself. Because we really need to earn the right to introduce ourselves as the guide and the way we earn the right to do that is by letting them know that we care about their problem, we care about their struggle, and that there's something in it for them here. What's in it that we're all scanning the environment trying to figure out what's in this for me? How can I get better, be better, solve this problem?  The two main things that you'd want to do on your website would be articulate their problem really clearly and even in nuanced ways that they're going to be nodding their head and being like, oh my gosh, this woman gets me. Because when we can clearly articulate their problem, they automatically think we're the best ones to solve it for them. So it's really powerful. There's a lot of psychology that goes in on that, but ultimately they feel seen, they feel heard, they begin to resonate with you, and then you paint a picture of a brighter future for them after they've solved the problem that you solved. So this isn't really features about working with you, it's really what their life is going to look like after they've solved this problem. That's how we earn the right to pull them into this story. And now that they know that you understand their problem and they know that you've painted a better picture of what's in it for them, what their future could be like, then we earn the right to introduce ourself as the guide. And we just do that through empathy and authority. We show them we get how hard this is, and here's a little bit about my story as it relates to them, and here's how I solved it, and then here's how you can solve it too. Step one, step two, step three. That's the plan part. If you just did only those things, it would change the way people experienced your brand and remembered you. You become much more memorable when you use these filtering devices for your messaging.  It's such good advice, the human connection, and I'm loving listening to this because we don't always, we're moving so quickly, we don't always think it through maybe in detail as much as we should. And the other day I was working on something and I thought, okay, I'm going to pretend my business belongs to someone else, and how would I look at it if I were advising on this? So it's so interesting how we have to switch out of that mode. You were mentioning the bottle,  Totally. And you're in the bottle. And once you're in the bottle, not only are you in the bottle, but you have the curse of knowledge, which you've just been doing what you do for so long, it's hard to remember what it's like to not know what, so I'm a big believer in getting a coach or a friend or somebody to bounce ideas off. So you're not doing this all alone in your own head. We've all got these garages in our brain that are just stuffed full of piled boxes and old bikes and all this stuff. We need help to empty the garage out and then put back only what's needed in there. Just a fun metaphor that related to this work that everyone can relate to.  Yeah, that's so important. Yeah. You believe hiring a copywriter is not enough? I have a feeling I know why, but why is that?  Trying to write our own copy is really hard for the two reasons. We've already talked about the bottle effect and the curse of knowledge. It's so easy to pull up a Google Doc and just draw a blank. And the copywriting industry, which I'm a fan of, there's some brilliant copywriters out there and gifted, but where it becomes challenging is when you are the face of your brand or you are your brand, and this is by no fault of any copywriter, but when you hire somebody to go write for you and they go write it in a silo and then come back and show it to you, of course it's not going to sound like your voice because it's not your voice. It's somebody who's done an amazing job, but you can't outsource your own voice. And so when you are your own brand or you're your own business, I'm a big believer in a collaborative approach to copywriting, and that's how I've found after 20 years of doing this work, I've just found that is the only way  Magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy. What is one way that you make sure to find and live your joy?  I love that. My five-year-old kiddos school is walkable from where we live. And I love getting to end the day by turning the computer off and walking outside and picking him up with the dog and walking home, rain or shine all year round doesn't matter. That's what we do. It's a chance for us to connect and shift gears for the day, and it brings me a lot of joy.  That's so nice. And it really is those small moments, and I'm thinking as a mom of 9-year-old twins, I'm thinking someday I won't be able to do these things. So it's so great that you take the time to do that every day.  You have been so much fun to talk to today. We've learned so much. I think I'm going to listen to this episode several times when thinking through storytelling. There's always so much to think through. Can you please share with us and our listeners how and where we can find you?  Yes. So if you go to red door designs.com, you can find out everything about me there. I have that freebie that I mentioned where you can learn how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. And then the main way that I work with clients who want it done, I write StoryBrand website copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat. So it's fun, it's efficient, and then you get copy for your website that acts as your top sales employee.  Thank you for joining us today. I'd love to hear from you. Reach out to me@helloatshe.com on our She Built website or at She Built It on Social. Thank you to my editor, rich Stino, who always makes us sound good. Until next time, let nothing stop you from experiencing the life and business that you crave. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/backend-brain ### Title: Unleashing the Power of Storytelling in Your Copy, with Courtney Lazar and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5047130 ### Content: ## Unleashing the Power of Storytelling in Your Copy ## Backend Brain Podcast, with Courtney Lazaar and Kris Jones Unleashing the Power of Storytelling in Your Copy, with Courtney Lazar and Kris Jones **Do you often find yourself second-guessing your copy, trapped in an endless cycle of tweaks without making real progress?** In my recent eye-opening chat with Courtney Lazar, we unlocked the secrets to crafting copy that not only captivates but also converts.  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Gain a fresh perspective on your business copy – break free from the 'Bottle Effect'. ? Uncover the art of storytelling and why it's your secret weapon in business. ? Tips cut through the noise and speak straight to the heart of your ideal client. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Kris Jones is a StoryBrand guide & Founder of Red Door Designs. Mentored by StoryBrand founder – Donald Miller himself & with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike and Jeff Bezos, under her belt, she is extremely passionate about helping self-employed women get website & sales copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. She has been able to help her clients achieve incredible results, including: Kris believes that Story is the most effective way to grow your business. And the process of creating compelling copy should be quick and easy! The right words have the power to help you amplify profits, enjoy more freedom, and make a bigger impact. **What are some fundamental elements business owners should include in their copy?** Kris starts out by saying that the first element business owners need to have in their copy is perspective. She elaborates on this principle by explaining that the majority of entrepreneurs suffer from the ‘Bottle Effect.’ This is the inability to see their business from an outsider’s or a lead’s perspective. In other words, It is like trying to read the label from inside the bottle.  She continues by saying that after working in an industry for a certain number of years, we forget what it’s like to not know what we know. We use professional language and overly detailed explanations that tend to make things seem unnecessarily complex. In short, it’s important to use **simple** language and explanations that potential clients can understand easily! **Can you tell us more about storytelling and why it’s important when writing copy?** Kris begins by explaining that every story ever written or told has 3 main components: 1 – The story begins with a hero (the potential client) that has a problem they can’t solve.  2 – Then, the hero meets a guide (you) that has the solution (your product/service).  3 – The solution and the guide allow the hero to find success. Based on that structure, Kris explains that one of the most important aspects of telling a story: Clearly articulating the problem/struggle that the hero cannot solve. Or in other words, articulate the issue that brought the potential client to your **website** in the first place. With this, the potential client feels seen and heard and will intuitively assume your business will be best equipped to solve their problem. They are pulled into that story!  Finally, Kris highlights another essential element of storytelling: showing them a better future. She emphasizes the fact that business owners should show potential clients what success will look like. Helpful questions to ask yourself to answer this prompt are: what is their life going to look like? How is their future after you have helped them solve this problem? On this point, Kris offers a piece of cautionary advice: Make sure to highlight the *benefits* of your product/service, not the *features*! For example, when telling someone about a trip to Hawaii, they don’t care about the meals on the airplane or the texture of the hotel towels (features), they want to know about swimming with dolphins and volcano hikes (benefits)! **What are your tips for making sure copy incorporates storytelling that is catered toward the ideal client?**  Kris answers this question in one clear statement: Filter out the noise and the clutter and make sure the potential client leaves with the knowledge that what they care about matters to you. Building on that, Kris suggests always giving leads a very clear call to action. She explains that a call to action like “Learn More” is too passive and vague. Business owners should always give leads a clear direction around the next step you want them to take. The next step, Kris mentions, is establishing trust through the use of testimonials on your website. She says that the most effective types of testimonials are the ones that speak to the problem that the potential client has and the **better future you provide**.  Lastly, Kris states the importance of including a section on your website that includes 3 accomplishments about yourself or your business. This could be a certification, high-profile clients served, the number of years in business, etc. This deepens the potential client’s sense of trust in you and builds credibility in your field/industry.  **What is your advice for how to prepare to outsource your copywriting to a 3rd party?** Kris starts off by saying that the best thing business owners can do is understand the 3 components of storytelling (referenced under the first question heading) and how those components apply to their own businesses. From there, she continues with a list of items you can do to prepare your copywriting to be outsourced:  If writing your own copy, Kris again reiterates the importance of quality storytelling. The problem your hero is facing is always the first point addressed; regardless of where the copy is going (emails, socials, website, etc.).  **What are the most common mistakes you see with storytelling when clients write their own copy?** Kris states that the #1 mistake she sees entrepreneurs make in their copywriting is making themselves the hero of their own story! She follows this up by saying that the potential client should *always* be the hero of the story.  Additionally, Kris circles back to the fact that business owners often mistakenly focus on the features of their products/services rather than the actual benefits. The features are about ourselves (*we* do X, Y, and Z), and the benefits are about our clients (*you* will experience/gain X, Y, and Z).  Finally, Kris states that she often sees business owners write their copy without first gaining the appropriate ‘outsiders’ perspective of their business. To remedy this, she gives one simple solution:  Go to a coffee shop and pick 2-3 people. Don’t tell them anything about what you do, and give them 15-20 seconds to look at your website. Lastly, ask them, “Can you tell me what I do?”  If they can’t, then you know you need to improve how you **communicate** the problem you solve (or in other words, what you do) and how it makes a potential client’s life better. In conclusion, Kris says a near-perfect website can communicate these two points in ~5 seconds! *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Increased revenue by 300%  - Record-breaking lead calls and clients booked - Scaling from 30k months to 300k months - Charging 6x more for the same service - Create a list of all the ‘problems’ your ideal clients face. - Create a list of all the happy results and successes potential clients will achieve once they solve these problems. - Finally, create one final list of all the reasons and ways your product/service solves your potential client’s problems. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/marketing-made-simple-podcast ### Title: How to Create Your Marketing Message in 5 Simple Steps, with Dr. J.J. Peterson and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5047156 ### Content: ## How to Create Your Marketing Message in 5 Simple Steps ## Marketing Made Simple Podcast, with Dr. J.J. Peterson and Kris Jones How to Create Your Marketing Message in 5 Simple Steps, with Dr. J.J. Peterson and Kris Jones **Have you ever found yourself lost in the clutter of marketing copy…** and wondering how to create a clear and effective one-liner?  In a recent conversation with Dr. J.J. Peterson, we uncovered the secrets of crafting a compelling one-liner. And why it’s the key to cutting through the marketing overwhelm.  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Uncover the power of a clear and concise one-liner. ? Transform your marketing message into a client-engaging powerhouse. ? Discover the surprising link between simplicity and business success! It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. We talk to freelance marketers and marketing agencies all the time who feel like they've just reached a ceiling when it comes to growing their business. Well, that's exactly why we created the StoryBrand Certified Guide Program to help freelance marketers and marketing agencies go to the next level. And if you've been listening to the podcast for a while and wondering, is this going to be good for me, should I apply to become a StoryBrand certified guide? Well, here are a few StoryBrand certified guides to tell you why it's been a good fit for them.  I found there's instant value as soon as I got certified, like I was going to, one, be able to hang my hat on the framework, and two have StoryBrand to help me in any way that I needed it. I  Went from being able to barely support myself as a freelancer to then being able to take on more business.  I get to work right alongside my husband every day, and we get to have the flexibility that we need for our family.  As a young business owner fresh out of college, you need credibility and you need authority. And for me, I think I was lacking that in a big way before getting StoryBrand certified. And now I feel like I have it.  If you'd love to get results like our incredible StoryBrand guides, I have great news for you. We have a virtual guide training coming up in September. Go to storybrand.com/guide and make sure you apply by July 21st so that you can join us. We bet you're ready to stop crossing your fingers every time you launch a new marketing campaign, and instead would love to have the confidence that you're using a framework that's been proven to work. So apply to become a StoryBrand certified guide at storybrand.com/guide and join us this September.  The best part about being a guide is I get to offer hope every day and see people succeed.  AI is the hottest topic in the world unless you've been living under a rock. You have heard of Chat GPT because it is the poster company for generative ai. In fact, it is actually Trouncing Taylor Swift in search volume. Can you believe that? Enough said, okay. If you haven't tried HubSpot's new AI features, you should do that. Content Assistant and Chats Spott are two brand new tools that will immediately save you and your team's time. HubSpot's features run on chat, GT's Tech to help you make compelling content and manage your CRM way faster than before. We're talking ad copy, data analytics, workflow automations, all with a chat command. So work smarter, not harder. And head to hubspot.com/artificial intelligence to learn about using AI to streamline your marketing, sales and customer ops.  Your business is constantly changing and so you need to be constantly updating or new marketing to match whatever you're doing right now. So this week it's all about the one-liner. Your  One-liner is that foundation. I believe it is the most important thing you can do for your business. And when you do the work to get it right, all the other messaging kind of falls down like dominoes. So it's a lot like building a strong foundation for a house.  Hello, hero maker, welcome to the Marketing Made Simple podcast, powered by StoryBrand and brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network where we believe your marketing should be easy and it should work. I am your host, Dr. JJ Peterson, and I'm joined by my co-host, April Sunshine Hawkins. Hi April.  April, our podcast is called Marketing Made Simple. Yeah, it is. I don't dunno if you've looked lately, but it still is. It's still called Marketing  Made Simple. I'm so glad we have not rebranded and I didn't know it. Yeah, yeah. Okay. This is not a rebranding conversation. It's still we're  Not changing it. That's not happening because we really believe, like we say in every intro is that we believe that marketing should be easy and it should work, right? And why we say that is because we've used the StoryBrand framework with thousands and thousands and thousands of clients, and we have seen over and over again how when you actually apply the principles in the StoryBrand framework, so you get a clear message by positioning your customer as the hero and you as their guide, you talk about solving their problems, you give them a plan, you have a strong call to action, and you ultimately show them what success or failure looks like in their story. When you get those pieces down and create a clear message from the StoryBrand framework and then apply it to your marketing, it works.  You don't have to convince me, jj, I know, I know it works.  You do know it works. And then what we did from there, after we basically used the StoryBrand framework to help people clarify their message. We wanted to show them then how to apply that to their marketing. So Donald Miller and I wrote a book called Marketing Made Simple to actually walk people through the process of how to create a sales funnel using clear messaging. And the five pieces of the sales funnel are pop quiz, April  One-Liner, website, lead generator, nurture emails and sales emails, or a sales letter. You did it. Thanks. I wonder how many times I've said that list. It's got to be in the thousands at this  Point. And we've seen over and over again that those work, they work when you actually create that market. And that's really what my dissertation showed is that understanding how to create a clear message and creating a clear message takes you to one level. But where it really moves you forward is when you actually begin implementing that message, using it in those five pieces of your sales funnel. And those five pieces work for everybody, whether you are a giant company, we go in and work with huge. I was just working with a billion dollar company in Colorado last week and we did this exact same thing. We helped them create sales funnel based on those five things, and we work with entrepreneurs and solopreneurs and it works for them as well. So we know that this works. We've seen it work. And so for this series, what we wanted to do is actually kind of get back to those basics and talk about how to create a simple, clear sales funnel that actually works.  So back to basics. Well, I mean it's just important where your focus goes, your energy is going to flow. And so it's really important for you to go, oh yeah, I've got a new product. I'm releasing that new product needs a one-liner, it needs a landing page, it needs its only generator, it needs its own email sequence. Your business is constantly changing, and so you need to be constantly updating or creating new marketing to match whatever you're doing right now. So we wanted you to have an up close personal look at these five elements, these five elements. If you've been a listener, you've heard this before, it doesn't matter. You are where you are right now and whatever you've got, it can be better, it can be more clear, and you can make sure that you are putting your focus and your energy in this spot. Because I know you're out there and you're like, oh my gosh, I have so many priorities. What should I be focusing on? What should I be doing? Should I be creating a TikTok video or should I be creating a sales funnel? We vote Sales Funnel  In this series, each piece of the sales funnel is going to have two episodes dedicated to it.  That's right. So the first episode is going to be either JJ or myself interviewing a StoryBrand certified guide who's been with us quite a while and they know what they're talking about. And so they will bring their expertise and what they have seen has worked really well when working with clients and creating that specific piece of the sales funnel. And in the second episode, we are going to bring on an entrepreneur who's struggling with that piece of the sales funnel and coach them through it. The StoryBrand certified guide that was a part of episode one will be the coach alongside either you, jj, or myself.  Yeah, it's so cool because you're actually going to see kind of how the sausage just made a little bit, right? We're going to kind of pull back the curtains and you're going to watch us actually coach somebody who's struggling with one of these pieces and see how it goes from nothing to actually creating collateral that they can immediately start using to grow their business. So this is, again, all about creating easy marketing that works.  So this week it's all about the one-liner, and we have an incredible StoryBrand certified guide named Kris Jones, and she's been with us since the very beginning. I mean, she's used this framework with her clients over and over and built. I mean, I don't know how many sales funnels at this point, but I've got to read you one of her customer's testimonials, like a testimonial from her client. Before we worked together, my business was almost entirely referral based. Our work together helped me get clear on the problem my clients struggle with and how my solution helps them experience success. Going through the StoryBrand process helped me better understand it myself, which ultimately made it easy to convey to people who were new to my world. Being able to tell my story has increased my confidence tenfold. Anytime I'm talking about what I do, I go back to those words that you help me create between the confidence and the clarity. I'm excited to share that. March is my first five figure month ever. Come on and Thea amazing. Oh man.  Well, that's why we wanted to bring Kris on to talk about this, about the process that she uses. And just as a reminder, what the one-liner is, the one-liner is really the first piece of your sales funnel. It is a quick way to explain to people what you do. So whenever you get the question, what do you do or what do you offer? This is a quick way to answer that question that follows the story framework that really hooks your customer to be interested in what you have to offer. And the way you do that is by creating one or two sentences that follow this formula. First, you talk about the problem your customer is experiencing. Second, you position your product as a solution to that problem. And then third, you talk about the success your customers experience once they buy your product or service.  So you may say something, so many companies are so close to their products and services that they have a hard time explaining what they do. At StoryBrand, we use a story framework to help companies clarify their message so they can connect with more customers and grow their business. 1, 2, 3, problem solution results. This is not a tagline. A tagline is like, just do it or Where's the beef? It's a little bit more in the branding space. This is really about explaining what you do and why your customers should do business with you. So it's really simple. It's more like an elevator pitch than a tagline, and it's just one or two sentences gets people into the story. It's really the foundation for all of the marketing that you're ultimately going to do because a short story, it's a short version of your overall marketing message. So as you're getting ready to listen to this episode, I want you to start thinking about what problems are your customers experiencing? How do you position your product as a solution to that problem? And then what is your customer's life like after they do business with you? If you can clearly answer those three questions, then you are going to have the start of your one-liner  And you'll finally have the confidence to communicate what you do clearly to your customers and hopefully have the success that Anthea has had one of Kris Jones's clients. So without further ado, let's get into your conversation with StoryBrand certified guide Kris Jones on how to create an incredible and impactful you can be confident in.  Kris. Now, I know that you have kind of fallen in love with the one-liner. Why is this something that you really have fallen in love with?  I am in love with the one-liner. It's a true love story  Because I love how short and concise it is, and yet at the same time, so incredibly powerful. I believe it is the most important thing you can do for your business. And when you do the work to get it right, all the other messaging kind of falls down. So it's a lot building a strong foundation for a house. Your one-liner is that foundation, and then your house is all the kind of the marketing, your website and all that. And then your email sequences and nurture sequences are like having people line up for your house, warming party, can't wait to get in, they're knocking down the door. So it all begins with the one-liner, and I've watched it time and time again, create such confidence in my clients and I think that's why I love it the most.  I teach at Vanderbilt, I teach kind of the marketing made simple framework at Vanderbilt, and I always tell my students, if you can master the one-liner and start thinking that way, start thinking in terms of problem, solution results, then everything else becomes easier. Whatever emails you're writing, whatever website you're writing, everything you're creating, even social media posts all are so much easier and so much more clear. If you can start with a really strong one-liner and then just start thinking that way. And I'm kind of a marketing nerd a little bit, and I'll even walk through the grocery store and I will just look at items and I will create fake one-liners for them so I can train my brain to start thinking this way, problem solution results. Because when you can do that, like you said, it really is foundational for everything else you do.  Oh, it's so true. Yeah, a hundred percent. And once you create your one-liner and you learn kind of the format just like you shared, then you can literally apply it to everything else you're going to write. You write an email, you pull out that framework and you start with the problem, introduce your services solution and really show them what kind of success they're going to experience. So it's like an accordion. That's the shortest version of a story right there. And then you can expand it out depending on what you're writing and where it's going to live.  I think that's so important for people to hear because it is the shortest version, but it doesn't mean it's the only words you can ever say. It's really though the only story you can ever tell, and this is the shortest version of it. And when you expand it, you can add a little bit more color, you can add a little bit more cuteness and cleverness, but when you start with that clarity, it's so key. And we talk about telling a short story, talking about the problem that you solve for people. But every time I go and talk to people and they get really excited to tell me their one-liner, it's not what I want it to be. They haven't quite gotten it right. Why do you think people struggle with this really simple formula?  It is. It's really ironic, right? Like two sentences usually, but it's so hard to do. And I think it's just because business owners are passionate about what they do. They love talking about it, and it's really, really hard to trim it down to something very clear and concise, and ultimately we're all just too close to our own business to talk about it clearly. And that's the beauty of the guide program.  You can come in with an outside set of eyes and go, that's what you do. They tell you two or three paragraphs or talk for 10 minutes about what they do, and then we're able to come in and just go, Nope, there it is. Found it. It's right there. That's the clear piece. And you actually have kind of a system that you have developed to really help people narrow in on that. And I think why your system is genius is because you really walk them through about five steps of creating a one-liner. And the one-liner itself is three steps, but you really take them through five different steps of how to take all this information they know about their business, all of the things that they've always said, and don't start simple. You actually have them kind of put it all out there and then narrow it down from there. You really help them refine it with these five steps. And your first step in the way that you help people refine their brand script is a brain dump, right? That's the first thing. Tell me about that. When you go in and work with a client first, you just have them dump all the words, right?  I do. Yeah. I believe that those golden nuggets of story are inside you. They're always inside you, and my job is just to help you. I would liken this to clearing out the garage, like you've got this garage, your brain is this garage that is stuffed with information and communication and ideas. So the only way to really clean that out is to take everything out of the garage. And so that's really that brain dump phase is let's take all that information out of your head and get it onto paper, and that way we can move on to the next step.  And I think that's so key because when I'm working with companies, a lot of times they try to immediately go to copy. They try to immediately start creating words. And when you start there, a lot of times I think you try to be super cute and clever. You're looking for the tagline, not your one-liner. So they're trying to come up with these words, just do it, or where's the beef? They're trying to come up with something catchy and you go, no, no, no. That's a tagline. We're not doing a tagline right now that's in the branding space. We're really talking about messaging. How do you clearly communicate what you offer and how you make people's life better? And so the first part of that is just let's get it all on paper. And then that's really step one, brain dump. And then step two, what do you do from there? Once you have all that information, what do you actually do with it?  Well, just like you would do, if you're cleaning out your garage, you'd sort, you'd make piles for goodwill, you'd make piles to give to friends, and you'd make piles for garbage. And we do that exact same thing. So we put it into three buckets. Number one is the hero's problem. So we group all those together, and then we group the solution that how do you solve that problem that your heroes are having? And then we group it into another group, which is the ultimate success that they're hoping to experience.  I love that because the things that we're talking about are all part of a company story, like everything a company is talking about, it's all part of their grand story or stories, and we're really trying to come up with one. So we really then start by dumping it all out, then organizing it so that we have a clear path to create the one-liner. So then the third step is really then you working with them to begin that next phase. You say the third step is really collaborate. What do you do in that phase?  Yeah, so this part is really, really important because the truth is we're inside of the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside the bottle. So I really encourage my clients to collaborate with me at this phase, or you could ask your partner or a friend to kind of be those fresh eyes, but the reality is you're just too close to it. So I collaborate with my clients to really, I bold or I'll pull out the golden nuggets that are inside of you. So we highlight the ones that kind of bubble up to the top as being the strongest and the clearest.  And that's really then how you create it, right? It's really brain dump, organize, and then collaborate to basically choose what is the best, the golden nugget out of all of it. And then you don't finish with that though, because we all know that creating great messaging is one thing, but then you actually have to begin using it. So you actually have two more steps in the process that you go through with the client, and I can't wait to hear what those next two steps are.  The Online Marketing Made Easy podcast is hosted by our good friend Amy Porterfield, and it's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals just like you, with a focus on online business, including digital courses and list building, social media content and webinars, online marketing made easy with Amy, breaks down big ideas and strategies into actionable step-by-step processes, and is designed to get you more results with a whole lot less stress. So go ahead, pop open, whatever podcast app that you're using, I'm listening on Spotify and I'm over looking at some of her most recent episodes, like, oh, creating a Profitable Business that keeps Growing Even When You're Offline. Ooh, I'm adding that one right now to my queue. Episode 579 must Know Online Marketing Industry Updates and Trends for 2023, open Story Loop. I've got to also add that one. And if I'm scrolling down a little bit further, check out episode 576, how to Scale your Business using the StoryBrand Framework with Dr. JJ Peterson and what April Sunshine Hawkins. Oh my goodness. Well just check out whatever sounds good to you, because Amy is a marketing genius and you should follow her. Listen to Online Marketing Made Easy wherever you get your podcasts,  Okay, so you've combined the problem with your solution and the success. So now what? You put it on a piece of paper, you print it out and you hang it on your wall by your computer and commit it to memory. The next step, step four is memorized, so print it out and commit it to memory. It should really flow off your tongue. So if it doesn't flow out of your mouth naturally, you need to change the words of it. It definitely needs to be aligned with your own voice and be casual and clear, really. I mean, just simple like short, concise, simple. So you just want it to feel natural, say it to your friends eventually. You might refine it a couple times during this phase, and that's okay, but the memorization is really key because you'll be shocked at how many times you're going to need to pull this out.  And this is so important, not only the memorization part, but what you said about making sure that it flows off your tongue easily. So often when we sit down to write a one-liner, or when I work with companies who are sitting down and writing a one-liner, they want to make it flowery and they want to turn it into prose, and they want to use inside language, and all of those things actually get in the way of you being able to memorize it. It doesn't sound natural when you're talking to people and then they can't memorize it. Ultimately, what marketing is really all about is helping people memorize the problem you solve, how you solve it, and how their life is better. So when you can memorize it and it flows easily off of your tongue, then other people will be able to memorize it as well.  So that is so important, and I love that you just said you're probably going to refine it. I think that's the other thing is sometimes we spend all this time creating it and then people think, oh, this is what I have to use these exact words forever. No, no. Workshop it, memorize it, use it with people, and then figure out how to make it better. And then once they get that, once they actually are able to memorize it, it sounds natural, they start using it, what is kind of the final step that they need to do?  And this is why the one-liner is the little engine that could, it's so short and so concise and so powerful when you use it everywhere. So when you have a consistent and cohesive story, which is what this is, and any way your clients are finding you, whether it's in social media, via email, on your website, on your business card, or in person, if you are telling the same message with your one-liner, you're building trust and you're becoming memorable,  Yes, put it everywhere and repeat it. And that's one thing that I get asked a lot when I'm working in private workshops with companies is I'll say, well, we just said that on our website and then we don't want to say it in an email. And they said, no, no, no. That's exactly what you want to do. You said it on the website, you want to say it in your email, you want to say it in your lead generator. You want to say it every time you're at a party. You want to repeat it over and over and over again so that other people can memorize it. I love this for our listeners because I think a lot of times you go, well just write a one-liner. Well, it is that simple, but it's not quite that simple. And so following this process of really sitting down, doing a brain dump of everything, all the information, then sorting that information, grouping it into problem your solution, and then ultimate success and results, then choosing the best story out of that short story, then actually collaborating with the people in your sphere, whether it's hiring a StoryBrand certified guide or working with your partner or friends or family to really kind of hone that in and then memorize it and then plaster it everywhere.  I think that gives people just some really tangible things that they can do to create a one-liner. And just to give a little bit more inspiration, I know you do this a lot and you've used this with a lot of your customers. How has this impacted them when you really get this message super clear?  Oh my gosh, in multiple ways. I mentioned earlier that the level of confidence goes up when you really know you've got go-to words to share with people about what you do and the impact that it has on others, your confidence goes up. I have a client who started doing this work and she was relying solely on referrals, and once she got her one-liner down and put it everywhere, and she actually ended up having her first five figure month shortly after that.  Amazing. This is especially key, I think, for people who are in the referral space, right? Because if you don't have words to clearly explain what you offer, then your clients aren't going to be able to have clear words of what you offer. Somebody will go, so who are you working with? And you're like, oh, I was working with Kris. Tell me about her. Oh, she's great. Okay. She really helped me. Okay. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. She's just great. Well, I mean, that's a nice referral. That's a good endorsement, but it's not really going to work in the power of referrals. And so when you're, especially in that referral space, when you can have that clear language and pass that to your clients who then can pass it to other people, boom. Five figure month. Unbelievable. Do you have anybody else that you've worked with that has really kind of used this in some pretty powerful ways?  Oh, yeah. I have worked with Parenting Coach that really honed in on the fact that she was working with toddler moms who felt overwhelmed, and her solution was she helped them change their relationship with time so they can parent with more joy, peace, and connection, and talk about pulling you into a story when someone says, yeah, I help people change their relationship with time. I don't care if you're a parent or not. You're pulled into that going, how does that work? Tell me more. And that's part of the beauty of the one-liner. It's a beautiful beginning to a deeper conversation. It gets people excited to work with you, and it works on its own whether delivering it or not. So the referral part is great. It can help boost up your referrals, but it also is a standalone tool that will sell for you when you're not around. So it does this work literally for all my clients.  And even in that one-liner that you just gave, does that tell everything about the story? No, it's not meant to be the full story. It's really meant to be the hook that draws people in. That begins the conversation that gets people to say, tell me more. So just to kind of wrap things up, first off, thank you. This has been amazing, but for people who are wanting to get started in creating their own one-liner, what are some things that you would tell them that they need to do?  Get out a piece of paper. Get those ideas out of your head and onto paper or on a Google Doc and organize them into those three buckets. Grab a friend, hire a StoryBrand guide to come to it and look at it with fresh eyes. You are too close to it at this point. And then memorize it, print it out, put it on your wall, refine it if need be. Say it out loud, play around with it. Have fun with it. It should be fun. And then copy and paste that one-liner into your social media profiles. I really encourage people to put it in the footer of their email signature, so effortlessly every email that you're sending to anybody, it's right under your name.  I love that so much. Kris, thank you so much for being on. And what I'm even more excited about is that in our next episode that you are also going to be a part of next week, you are actually going to coach a struggling business owner through their own one-liner, and I'm so excited to hear from them and hear from you so people can actually hear, here's the process to walk through and here's how we actually do it to refine it and help create an amazing one-liner. So thank you for being with us today. This has been so valuable, so cool, and I can't even wait for more next week. Thanks so much, Kris.  Okay, hero maker. Now you have the know-how to be able to create a clear one-liner, and if you are still feeling stuck trying to figure out how to apply the StoryBrand framework into your marketing, you can hire a StoryBrand certified guide like Kris Jones. Just go to marketing made simple.com to hire a guide that will show you how to clarify your message and create marketing that works. All right, hero maker, it's time to apply everything you learned with this week's actionable step, a practical step from today's conversation you can immediately use to shape your marketing and clarify your message. You just heard this from Kris at the end of our conversation, but what you want to do now is take out a piece of paper and begin your brain dump process. Just take everything and write it down. You want to start by identifying what are the problems that your customers are experiencing that you can help solve?  Write down all the different ways that your product can be positioned as a solution to those problems. And then write down what are the things that your customers are going to experience? What are the good things that they're going to experience after they buy your product or service? Just write all those down. When you have a one-liner that you are confident in, you are able to guide your customer to solve their problem by buying your product or service, which ultimately helps them become the hero of their own story. That's what makes you a great guide, and that's what makes you a hero maker. That's all for this week's episode of Marketing Made Simple. Thank you so much for listening and believing like us that marketing should be easy and it should work. Follow marketing made simple wherever you listen to podcasts, and if you found this episode valuable, please rate and review the show letting us know how these tips are clarifying your message and growing your business. We'll see you next week. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/marketing-made-simple-part-2 ### Title: Eavesdrop on a StoryBrand Coaching Session, with Dr. J.J. Peterson and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5047171 ### Content: ## Eavesdrop on a StoryBrand Coaching Session ## Marketing Made Simple Podcast, with Dr. J.J. Peterson and Kris Jones Eavesdrop on a StoryBrand Coaching Session, with Dr. J.J. Peterson and Kris Jones **Do you find it hard to talk about your services in a simple and compelling way?** Watch Dr. J.J. Peterson, and I walk a client through the process of creating a compelling elevator pitch one-liner.  This is the foundation of growth -- and *every* business needs one.  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? How to craft a narrative that truly resonates and engages your audience. ✨ The strategic formula that leaves a lasting impression and removes overwhelm. ? How to write the shortest (and most powerful) story you’ve every told.. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. We talk to freelance marketers and marketing agencies all the time who feel like they've just reached a ceiling when it comes to growing their business. Well, that's exactly why we created the StoryBrand Certified Guide Program to help freelance marketers and marketing agencies go to the next level. And if you've been listening to the podcast for a while and wondering, is this going to be good for me, should I apply to become a StoryBrand certified guide? Well, here are a few StoryBrand certified guides to tell you why it's been a good fit for them.  I found there's instant value as soon as I got certified, like I was going to, one, be able to hang my hat on the framework, and two have StoryBrand to help me in any way that I needed it. I  Went from being able to barely support myself as a freelancer to then being able to take on more business.  I get to work right alongside my husband every day, and we get to have the flexibility that we need for our family.  As a young business owner fresh out of college, you need credibility and you need authority. And for me, I think I was lacking that in a big way before getting StoryBrand certified. And now I feel like I have it.  If you'd love to get results like our incredible StoryBrand guides, I have great news for you. We have a virtual guide training coming up in September. Go to storybrand.com/guide and make sure you apply by July 21st so that you can join us. We bet you're ready to stop crossing your fingers every time you launch a new marketing campaign and instead would love to have the confidence that you're using a framework that's been proven to work. So apply to become a StoryBrand certified guide at storybrand.com/guide and join us this September. The  Best part about being a guide is I get to offer hope every day and see people succeed.  AI is the hottest topic in the world unless you've been living under a rock. You have heard of Chat GPT because it is the poster company for generative ai. In fact, it is actually Trouncing Taylor Swift in search volume. Can you believe that? Enough said. Okay. If you haven't tried HubSpot's new AI features, you should do that. Content Assistant and Chats Spott are two brand new tools that will immediately save you and your team's time. HubSpot's features run on chat GT's Tech to help you make compelling content and manage your CRM way faster than before. We're talking ad copy, data analytics, workflow automations, all with a chat command. So work smarter not harder. And head to hubspot.com/artificial-intelligence to learn about using AI to streamline your marketing, sales and customer ops. So last week we had StoryBrand certified guide Kris Jones to talk about to create a simple, clear, and then this week we've invited entrepreneur Kaya Nystrom who runs an get ready Apple Orchard. Kaya has been struggling with creating her own one-liner and myself and Kris Jones actually coach her live so you can hear what the process is like to create a one-liner, especially when you're starting from scratch.  Hello hero maker. Welcome to the Marketing Made Simple podcast, powered by StoryBrand and brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network where we believe your marketing should be easy and it should work. I am your host, Dr. JJ Peterson, and I am joined by my co-host, April Sunshine Haw. Hi April.  Hey, bro. We are in the series right now where we are talking about the marketing made simple sales funnel of how to create collateral that actually works. We're teaching people how to create the collateral, which by now if you've been listening for a while, you know that there are really five pieces to the marketing made simple sales funnel, the one-liner, your website, lead generator, sales, emails, and nurture emails. So in the first episode, we actually bring on a StoryBrand certified guide to talk through very simply how to create that piece of the collateral for the sales funnel. And then in the second episode, we bring back that StoryBrand guide so that they can coach an entrepreneur who is struggling through that process and help them create that piece of collateral right here on this podcast. So last week we had Kris Jones on StoryBrand certified guide Kris Jones to talk about how to create a simple clear, and then this week we have brought on I think what is now probably going to be one of my favorite businesses. Granted, every time we talk to a business, they become my favorite. Of course, it's  Of a sudden I am like, this is my new favorite, they're my new favorite. Well, today's, I'm just going to tell you is my favorite because we brought on an entrepreneur named Kaya Nystrom who runs an get ready apple orchard.  Oh my goodness. jj, you were just in heaven during this interview, weren't you?  Oh, I was. I've already spent so much money because she ships pies. We'll get into it in the interview, but just so you know, she ships pies and I've already spent way too much money, but we brought on Kaya who has been struggling with creating her own one-liner and myself and Kris Jones actually coach her live so that our listeners can actually hear what is the process like to create a one-liner, especially when you're starting from scratch. And we talked last week about how a one-liner really is foundational for all of your and messaging. It really is the short story that invites customers in and positions them as the hero and positions you as a guide by talking about the problem your customer's experience. It positions your product as a solution and then talks about what your customer's life is like after they buy your product or service. So it's really those three parts, problem solution results. So just as an example, April, I'd love for you to give us a one-liner, maybe one of the customers that actually Kris has worked with in the past. Well, here's what we're actually going to do is based on these three things that April's about to say, I want to see listener, if you have any confusion about what this person does. Is this one-liner clear enough to where you have no confusion ready? So April 1st, give me the problem.  After age 40, many people struggle with eyelids that inhibit their vision and make them look older than they are.  That is a problem, especially now that I'm looking at Zoom all the time. Yes,  See that? Okay, so people with over 40 struggle with eyelids that are getting in the way of their vision. Okay, then what is the solution part of the one-liner?  So they can see clearly look more youthful and feel their best.  After age 40, many people struggle with eyelids that inhibit their vision and make them look older than they are. I'm a surgeon who restores eyelids so that they can see clearly look more youthful and feel their best.  Love it. So clear listener. Is there any confusion about what this surgeon does?  I think that they're only confused if I've become a surgeon or not.  You're not the surgeon. No. That is a one-liner for a surgeon and it is incredibly clear, and we talked about this last week in the episode where your one-liner is not everything you do, it doesn't go into all of the details. All you're doing is in a quick, simple way positioning your product as a solution to a customer's problem and casting a vision for what their life is like after they buy from you. Very, very simple. But that then becomes the foundation for all of your messaging. And so if you didn't listen to last week's episode, go back and listen where we really walk through how to create a one-liner. But I am so excited for this week's episode where we bring back StoryBrand certified guide Kris Jones to actually coach an entrepreneur Kaya Nystrom on how to create a clear one-liner. Kaya, I absolutely love what you do and I'm already looking at plane flights to come visit and I'm so excited about it. And so could you tell our audience here a little bit about what you do, what your business is, and I'm afraid after this, probably a lot of people are going to be booking flights, so I hope you are ready for it.  Well, I am ready for it. You're going to get a journey to rural America. I'm out in the middle of nowhere in the country and it's one of those love stories where I actually married my neighbor and he has a apple orchard and it's been in his family for five generations and we call ourselves nice from orchard. Unfortunately or fortunately, that gem of an apple orchard sat there for over a hundred years and it literally was just bags of apples on the honor system in a little old grody shed for years. And for about the first 10 years of my marriage, I kept looking at this thinking, there's got to be more. These apples are great and they're just sitting here. So in 2020 I decided to take on transforming the business and create a lot of tasting experiences and connect people closer to their food. With that, we are starting to develop a following and evolve into a tasting experience orchard, which is totally different than your traditional apple orchard. And I am excited to hear what you can help me with because I don't have my one-liner down whatsoever of what do you do? And I need help with defining that even though in my head I know what it is, I can't articulate it.  Okay, so everybody write that down right now. Nice or orchard. So I love what you do and I love the entrepreneur side behind it, like taking this to the whole next level, moving from, and this is what a lot of people struggle with, especially who are growing in business and who are entrepreneurs, is that they start kind of in one place, right? Selling apples is simple, right? You can just say the best apples in town or organic apples, you can kind of lean into that. But when you actually start to then grow and add other services or other products, it starts to feel like, well, the original one-liner or marketing that we had now that's not actually what we do anymore. And so we need to create something new and we know what it is. Kris and I just talked about this so often companies are so close to their products and service that it's so hard to really be able to explain it well. And so then you go to that next level and it's like, well now what do we do and how do we describe it? So what is your current one-liner?  So I would say my current one-liner is we transform an apple into a flavor and a story and an experience, something along those lines.  Well, I will tell you first off that that is a beautiful tagline. That's some beautiful branding messaging. So I love that. What I would say is we're not going to get rid of that. That'll probably be something in that space can live on. Your website, can live as something that you write on your wall when people come to the shed. Or you can keep that because that's beautiful branding. It makes people feel something. And that's really what branding is about, is helping people feel connected and feel something when they're engaging with your product or service. What we're going to do today is really lean then into the marketing side, which is really the messaging part. And as everybody who's listens know, the one-liner really is a formula that we use to tell a short story that invites people in to a story where they can understand the problem we solve and the solution that we offer to solve that problem. And then what their life is like after they buy our product or service. So what are the results they experience, problem, solution, results. And Kris has kind of a method that she takes clients through when she does this. And so Kris, I want to just turn it over to you to begin the process of asking Kaya some questions that you ask your clients so we can start digging in on how to create this. Amazing,  Okay, great. So Kaya, I'm so happy to be here today to help carry you to a really outstanding one-liner and my process is really very simple. First we brain dump and we get all those golden nuggets out of your head and onto paper. And then we're going to sort everything that you've shared into the hero's problem, the guide solution, and the ultimate success. And then we're going to collaborate because you're just so close to your own business, we all are as business owners. So that's why as guides, we come in and provide a fresh perspective and then I'm going to challenge you to memorize it, say it out loud, print it out, make sure it really flows off your tongue and feels aligned with your own voice. And then I want you to plaster it everywhere in your social media profiles. I want you to put it in your email signature. So every email you send has that one-liner underneath your name. So social media, put it on your website, put it on your business cards, your brochures, say it in person. Have any of your team members, I know you're a solopreneur, but I imagine you've got people working with you, have them all memorize it and you can even challenge them and say, okay, I'm going to ask you this question randomly on a random Tuesday or Friday. If you can repeat our one-liner back to me, I'll give you five bucks.  So a couple questions I have for you before we dive in to the brain dump is what type of customers do you want more of?  So that's a great question. So for me, they fall into two camps. One is somebody looking for an experience. Like I said, we're in rural America, there's not much to do. And so a young married or dating couple or somebody who is an empty nester is often my prime target for coming for an experience. I explain it best as we are a winery, but with apples and that resonates more of what we're like. My second targeted arguments that I really want to focus on is I have a pie that is absolutely loved and it sells itself and people literally crave my pie and I want to share it with the world. I want to be known on the mat, I want to ship it, and I want people to experience that in their homes. And so for that, I would like to look at how can I get into some corporate gifting for holidays and an office manager or something like that to grow that side of the business. So two different dynamics.  Got it. And which one of these groups is more profitable for  You? The pies would be about 80% and then the events would be 20. But it tends to be when somebody comes to an event, they leave with pie, so they roll into each other.  Right, right. Okay. So today, what would you like to focus on? Would you want to focus on the corporate gifting?  Let me just speak here really quick to our listener here, because what Kris is just doing with this is really kind of fun is that you kind of have three different stories, but you really have two primary ones, right? It's the pies and the experience. And for anybody out there who has completely different stories under one brand, you do actually want to think of those as two separate stories because you're targeting two separate audiences. So what you're going to want to do ultimately is actually one for your experience on your property and then one for the corporate gifting and pies. Now on your ultimate website, you will probably focus, I would argue on the main website will actually be the farm itself, the orchard itself, and then there will be a button on there to order pies, and that's going to go to a separate webpage that will tell the pie story.  And what Kris just did is identify where is the money, even though your main money is probably coming from those pies eventually that's where it's really going to come from. That is a separate website. You can talk about selling pies on your experience, but the experience website and the experience side of the business solves one problem and the pies solve another. When you solve a different problem, you create a different story. So what we're really going to focus on is that pie space because that's your greatest opportunity for growth and it's a new thing that you're taking to the next level. So Kris is doing exactly what everybody needs to do when they're walking through this. And so now I'm going to turn it back over to Kris. I'll shut up.  Okay. Alright. So every story begins with a hero that has a problem and then that hero meets a guide with a solution that helps them find success. So we're going to start at the beginning of your story. Who is your customer, which is the hero and what are they struggling with?  They're struggling with finding a connecting point at the table with whoever they're sitting down with. That's what I envision in my head. And that customer can be of all ages, but they want a memory of good food at home, but they don't want to spend the time in the kitchen to make it themselves and somebody likely wants to gift it to them and create that experience. And it comes from a family. It's not just a large corporation of mass production pie. So that's in my head what I think.  Okay, so who are going to buy, when we think about the corporate gifting, who is going to buy these pies? Who are they?  The marketing or office manager would be who I would assume would put that order together or be looking for a unique solution. They're going to be the one who types in their web browser unique gift for a customer. That's who I have in my head and I want nicer more to pop up and then be like, wow, this is going to be the best pie ever. How do I get there?  I love that you just shared they're going to type into Google this. I love the clarity that you have there. So our hero is really the office manager here, and the problem that they're having is they're having a hard time finding a unique gift for their customer. Does that ring true?  Okay. Just for fun, what are some other problems that they might be having in regards to finding memorable, delicious gifts for their clients?  Well, I think another problem is anything that is engraved with a name or a clothing with a size causes more work for that person, so I could eliminate that work. I also think of personalization because nobody just wants a gift. They want the handwritten note that goes with it. We can do that. And so I think that's another problem that the office manager is struggling with that we could solve.  Got it. So the typical gifts that you get the gift basket with all the crap in it, basically  It doesn't feel personalized, and if you have any dietary restrictions, you're kind of at a loss. So it's not personalized. These gifts aren't personalized. It takes a lot of 'em, take too much effort for this office manager to coordinate and ship and send and put it together and it's not unique. These are the problems that they're struggling with that most corporate gifts  The online Marketing Made Easy podcast is hosted by our good friend Amy Porterfield, and it's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals just like you with a focus on online business, including digital courses and list building, social media content and webinars, online marketing made easy with Amy, breaks down big ideas and strategies into actionable step-by-step processes and is designed to get you more results with a whole lot less stress. So go ahead, pop open, whatever podcast app that you're using, I'm listening on Spotify and I'm over looking at some of her most recent episodes. Like, oh, creating a profitable Business that keeps growing Even when You're Offline. Ooh, I'm adding that one right now to my queue. Episode 579 must Know Online Marketing Industry Updates and Trends for 2023 Open Story Loop. I've got to also add that one. And if I'm scrolling down a little bit further, check out episode 576, how to Scale your Business using the StoryBrand Framework with Dr. JJ Peterson and what April? Sunshine Hawkins. Oh my goodness. Well just check out whatever sounds good to you because Amy is a marketing genius and you should follow her. Listen to online Marketing Made Easy wherever you get your podcasts.  Okay, so we've dialed that in. Now let's talk about your solution. So how do you solve the problem of office managers not being able to find unique personalized gifts so that problem could be solved with a nicer orchard, Dutch apple pie? It's so good when somebody buys it here, they often ask for a fork and eat it as they leave the driveway. It is something that can be, it comes frozen, they can bake it whenever they have guests over. I don't care if they claim it as their own that they made it. Let me solve the problem of providing dessert on your table that is so good, so that you look like a hero when you have company over at Thanksgiving. I can do that for you. Great. And you said that it's so good that you look like a hero when you have company over, is that what you said? Okay, so you're kind of dabbling between a couple different buckets, which is great. I mean that's part of the brain dump process is you just get it all out there and then I'm kind of sorting as you're sharing and then you call it great and I call it on my own. No, you're doing awesome. Okay, so we're  Really in on the office manager here. They're the person we want to buy these products. And so what are the things that they're going to experience as a result of this? What are the wonderful things that are going to happen for them?  They're going to save time, they're going to stay within their marketing budget because I am under the price point that a lot have to work with. And I think that's really important because sometimes people don't give a gift at all because they can't find a gift that sounds meaningful within that 50 to $75 range. And this solves that problem for one. The second thing is I think the person will receive feedback, and this has happened with the ones that I've shipped out and that makes that office manager feel good and important. Like, Hey, I did a really good job. They liked it and that makes them want to give the next year. So those are two other things that I think of.  Okay, so now's the time where we kind of put them together and this is that what I like to call that messy middle part where it doesn't sound very good, but we're kind of putting the structure together and then we massage it after the fact. So we want to start with our hero. So something along the lines of many office managers struggle to find a unique gift for their customer. So now we're going to introduce you as the guide with this solution. What I want to encourage listeners to do is just keep this so short and simple. People want to know that you can solve the problem. They don't want to know how you solve the problem. So we don't want to get too lengthy in here. We just want to show that really this dutch apple pie is your solution. And so we want to follow this with Nystrom Orchard makes and ships, Dutch apple pies or nystrom orchard makes and ships delicious Dutch apple pies and that it can be that short and that concise.  We all know there's so much more to this Dutch apple pie and you're excited about the pie. And it's not that we can't add to this, but for this phase of the process, we're just going to keep it really, really simple. And the simpler we are here with your solution, that allows us a little bit more leeway in the next section, which is the success. And so I like to go really big. I like to think big here, think what's happening on the peak of the mountain for them when they've shipped this pie and what are all the benefits that they're going to experience. So what you shared was it's so good, they're going to look like the office hero. They're going to save time, they're going to stay within their marketing budget, it's going to be a meaningful gift. So all of these wonderful things. So we want to pick the three strongest ones. And of those, what do you think the office manager would get most excited about?  Can I ask you back, because this is probably what I struggle with the most is I'm too close to my product to know If you got a pie, what would be, or you or the office manager, what would you think?  I mean, saving time huge for everybody, but definitely an office manager. They're juggling all kinds of things and if they can check this off their list and it's effortless, they're going to be so happy.  And for me, I'm just thinking if I'm trying to send stuff to people that I either I want to do business with or that I'm currently doing business with, I love that idea of that memory, just that you're going to be seared in their brain because there's something about that of they're going to remember this gift.  The pie is the avenue to an experience with your family and friends, and that is what's the most important is sharing that pie with those around you. And that's the experience.  Well, but I would say for that, that is the end user's experience, but not necessarily the office manager's experience. So we want to focus on the office manager or the office manager or the marketing department. What their experience is with it is that they get to either provide that memorable moment for the family or they get to be remembered versus that they get that moment  So true. Okay, so here's our messy middle rough draft, and then what I would want you to do after this is just say it out loud and practice it, refine it. But if you were to run into somebody at a coffee shop and had a conversation with them, I want this to be so short and concise that it can just roll off your tongue and they're not going to get overwhelmed and bombarded with too many verbs or adjectives and not be able to digest that information. That's the goal. We really want them, the people we're sharing it with to be able to commit it to memory too. So right now we've got many office managers struggle to find unique gifts for their customers. Nystrom Orchard makes and ships unforgettable Dutch apple pies so they can save time, stay on budget and look like the office hero.  I love it. I actually really like that. And so see if you can just even in that quick little space, repeat that back to us.  Many office managers struggle to find unique solutions. Nice and Orchard makes and ships beautiful pies for you. So save time, stay on budget and look like the office hero.  Yes, it's the first time I don't have to grocery shop till Monday. I got time.  Now how that could look and turn into copy on a website is you could take pieces of this on your website and you could say, stop struggling with finding that unique gift for your customers that will make you memorable. So you can kind of do that and then you give your one-liner right under that. But you can write from this copy to create, you can even say unique Dutch apple pies shipped straight to you so you can be the office hero so you can pull pieces of it for different copy, but the key for that one-liner is really that problem solution result, right? I'll see if I can do it after you said it Kris. So many office managers and marketing departments really struggle to find that unique gift to send to their customers. At Nystrom Orchard, we actually make and ship beautiful Dutch pies so that you can save time, save money, and ultimately you can be the hero of the office.  So we're going to put your website in our show notes, but it's nystrom orchard.com. If people are struggling to find unique and memorable gifts so that they can be the office hero, you can get a unique beautiful Dutch apple pie. Yes, you can. So we'll put that there. Here's what I would say then what Kris said is that now the goal will be for you to play with this a little bit. We've kind of given the foundation to it. Now you want to change a little bit of the wording to make it flow more clearly off of your tongue. You want to be able to memorize it, you want to test it with some people, test it with office managers, test it with marketing departments, say it to them and just go, does this resonate with you? Or just even if you find somebody at a coffee shop or office party and just say it, put it in your email signature as you're reaching out to those people, but play with it for a little bit and then see how it feels.  Change it a little bit. This is the part where a lot of people go a little bit of awry as they start doubting. You said it Kai, you said, it seems so simple. It's because it is. That's the goal. I mean, we're called marketing made simple for a reason. We want to keep it simple and clear. And so then people go, well, I need to add more to it. I need to add more language. I need to add more words. You can change a few of the words, maybe change a little bit of the success if you want, but don't add five more things sub amount. Keep it simple, keep it really clear. And this is really one of the things we do when we're creating these even at StoryBrand, is we say we don't laminate it, not in the beginning. We write it down, we test it until it starts making sense to us and other people and then we kind of make it more permanent and put it everywhere.  This is so helpful because sometimes I'm like, well, do I solve a big enough problem in the world? It's apples, but yet the problem needs to be solved by somebody. You have to eat and you want experiences, and I really appreciate you guys showing me that there can be multiple problems and they can have different solutions. I was struggling so much to put my entire business under one problem.  A lot of people struggle with that same thing, so you're in the same boat with a lot of people. Well, this has been so fun, Kris, thank you first off so much for walking through this process and showing our listeners how exactly you go through this process. And Kaya, thank you for you being vulnerable and coming on here and also introducing us to your pies because we're all going to get 'em now. That's just where this happens. So this has been a blast.  I really appreciate it. You guys have been transforming my business since the beginning of the year and I've come a long ways. I have a ton to learn yet, but thank you for all that you do. I really appreciate it.  That was so fun. And I'm buying so many more apple pies and I hope that you were able to see how to create a clear one-liner and how to actually ask the right questions to get the language you need to create marketing that works. We say this every week. If you are feeling stuck trying to figure out how to apply the StoryBrand framework into your marketing, you can hire a StoryBrand certified guide like Kris Jones. You can go to marketing made simple.com to hire a guide that will show you how to clarify your message and create marketing that works. And that's why for this week's actionable step, if you are struggling with creating a one-liner or you need help being coached through how to create a one-liner and maybe just like Kaya, you have multiple one-liners that you need to create because you are creating one-liners for a different product or a different service or a specific type of customer that you work with.  Our StoryBrand guides can actually help you create one-liners that are engaging, that are memorable and that work. So if you are struggling with this for this week's actionable step, I want you to go to marketing made simple.com and talk to a StoryBrand certified guide. I promise they want to see you succeed. They are so fun to work with, they're so easy to work with. You've heard them on our podcast over and over and over, and they more than anybody I know, work to position themselves as a guide so that you can be the hero of your own story so that you can actually grow your business, solve your marketing problems, and connect with more customers. Stop struggling, stop struggling. If you need an outside set of eyes to coach you through this process or to create it for you for this week's actionable step, go to marketing made simple.com and hire a guide that will show you how to clarify your message and most importantly, create marketing that works well. That's all for this week's episode of Marketing Made Simple. Thank you so much for listening and believing like us that your marketing should be easy and it should work. Follow marketing made simple wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you found this episode valuable, please rate and review the show letting us know how these tips are clarifying your message and growing your business. We'll see you next week. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/healthy-hustle ### Title: How to Tell Your Story to Connect and Convert Clients, with Rachel Feldman and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5047187 ### Content: ## How to Tell Your Story to Connect and Convert Clients ## Healthy Hustle Podcast, with Rachel Feldman and Kris Jones How to Tell Your Story to Connect and Convert Clients, with Rachel Feldman and Kris Jones **Do you have a hard time effectively connecting with your target audience?** In a recent conversation with Rachel Feldman, we delved into the art of crafting compelling messages that resonate with your audience.  **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn how to attract the clients you genuinely want to work with. ? Uncover powerful strategies to revamp your messaging, turning it into a client magnet. ? Gain clarity to connect with your dream clients on a deeper level. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Most people talk about themselves in their social media profile, and I get why they do that. It's like, duh, it's my profile. I'm going to talk about myself. But really what will help you stand out is if you talk about your clients rather than yourself.  Alright guys. Growing your wellness business doesn't have to mean working around the clock and feeling exhausted. So welcome to the Healthy Hustle podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Feldman, and I have been in your shoes. I've been in the wellness space for over nine years, and I know what it feels like to feel overwhelmed. I took my wellness business from 13 K that first year and feeling frightened and exhausted to over six figures. Now I'm a business coach for health and wellness professionals just like you and I create done for you content and program to help you save time and money so you can spend more time nailing down your niche, understanding your buyer avatar, attracting your ideal client, and building your business from the ground up the right way. So sit down and let's get started.  Are you struggling with email marketing for your coaching business? Building an email list is crucial to connect with your clients and increase conversions, but it's not easy. That's where the cleaning hack list builder and marketing kit comes in. You'll get everything you need to build an email list of raving fans and potential clients, including a lead magnet, cover images, opt-in page thank you page and follow up emails. And the best part, it's completely free. And if that isn't enough, as also created video guides to walk you step-by-step through the setup process, download your free kit and make it happen. Hey guys, I'm so excited for this episode. I'm here with my new friend Kris, and she's going to talk about copy. She and I were just talking before we recorded this, about how many coaches struggle to share their story. They struggle to have copy that converts. They hear crickets, and then they're not doing their mission. So Kris, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell everyone a little about you?  Thank you for having me. I am a StoryBrand guide and I live in Portland, Oregon. I have a business called Red Door Designs. I've been doing this work for 20 years now, which is insane. But I love it so much because of the fact that the entrepreneurs and the coaches that I work with struggle so much with writing their copy and no one escapes this challenge. So what I love to do is really help bring simplicity and aha moments and breakthroughs around messaging so it doesn't feel so damn hard.  So you brought up a great word. I love that word simplicity. And especially here we are in a time where everyone is craving that I see on social media, people talking about just simplifying their strategies and getting back to maybe hopefully where we were a few years ago when things weren't as complicated. How do you simplify messaging? Is there a framework that we can talk about that kind of guides you through or when you're teaching your clients for that aha moment?  Yes. Yeah. Well, the reality is story is incredibly powerful. It's the best way to really connect with other people. And also when we use story in our own business, it's the best way to be remembered. And that's really the name of the game is how can we be remembered? How can we be top of mind when people that need us are thinking, okay, how am I going to solve this problem? We want ourselves to pop into their brain. And so that's why I am a big fan of this StoryBrand framework because it's not a new invention. I mean stories what brought us around the fireside from the beginning of time, but the beauty of the StoryBrand framework is that it shows business owners how to use story in their own business. And I think the thing that gets really overwhelming for people in the place that a lot of us get stuck is we think like, okay, this is my website or this is my business.  I've got to talk about myself. And the beauty of this StoryBrand framework is that it's a filtering device and it allows you to remove the clutter of your communication and only keep what's really powerful, what's really essential, what's really clear and what's really going to resonate with your ideal clients. And the beauty of that is that your story isn't even about you. It's about your customer or your clients. And what we do with the framework is we invite those ideal clients into a narrative or a story with us where they're the hero and we play the guide in that story.  Oh, I love that. Can you give an example of what that would be like in your own life and maybe that would be the easiest to kind of portray?  Yeah, so the StoryBrand framework, when I break it down, any movie you've ever been to, any book you've ever read, any story you've ever heard someone share, it always begins with a character or a hero that has a problem that they don't know how to overcome. And so I'll walk you through the framework really quickly and then I'll kind of show you how that might work in the real world. And so in every story, you've got a hero that has the problem. They don't know how to solve that problem. They meet a guide that's you or in a movie that might be Mr. Miyagi if we were talking Karate Kid, or that might mean Yoda for the Star Wars lovers. And then that guide gives the hero a plan, a very clear plan that calls them to action and ultimately allows them to experience success and avoid failure. And it's that simple. I know you're listening to this going, okay, really,  There's a million movies out there and you think, oh, why aren't all the movies sounding the same when they're all following this framework? But the reality is they're all following this framework, each and every one of 'em. And now this will ruin movies for you in the future because you're going to be like, oh, here comes the guide. Oh, there's the plan. And so really what this means in regards to your business is you really want to talk less about yourself. The guide really doesn't enter into this story until about in a movie like 20 to 30 minutes in. So we really want to lead with showing that we understand the problem that our heroes are facing, and that's the best way to really pull someone into your story is to talk about the problem that they're experiencing because they feel like we care about them when we do that. And the reality is  They can identify with those problems and those pain points. I just had somebody in one of my groups say, how important is it to dive into pain points in marketing? And I said, it is extremely important, but if you can involve a story with that and help this person to identify with a story and see through their own eyes, but then bring them through a story and lead them down to the water, you're going to be in a much better situation. Is that accurate?  Yeah, it is accurate in many ways, but everything that you share doesn't have to be in story form. Really, the components of the framework are more like playing multiple chords on a guitar when you know how to play the guitar and you strum those chords together, you're creating beautiful music. And if I were on the corner with the guitar case, people would gather around and start throwing money into the guitar case. And it's because I know what notes to combine. And when they're all played together, they draw people to the music. And contrasting that with, if I had never played the guitar before and I just picked up a guitar and started strumming wildly on a corner, no one's going to gather around me. So it's less about having to position everything like a story and more about putting all the ingredients into the chili, the soup bowl, right? You've got all the ingredients when all those ingredients are in there. In that those ingredients would be identifying the character or the hero articulating who you're talking to and really articulating the problems that they face and articulating them with detail. So we want them, when you're talking about the pain points, even if they're bulleted, even if it's a bulleted list, but if that list is articulated in a way that they're like, oh my God, she's in my brain,  She is talking about me. Because the more clearly we can articulate their problem, a lot of magical things happen. They feel seen, they feel heard, they feel like they're not alone, but most importantly, they immediately think that we're the best ones to solve it. So pain points are very important, but you want to really dig deep into them and articulate the nuances of them in a way that feels like you're on a walk with your best friend and she's sharing with you those problems like conversational.  Would you say this framework is applicable, whether it's a social media post, a newsletter, a website? Is this framework applicable to all?  It's applicable to all. So I really encourage people to start with creating the shortest story ever told, which is what I call the one-liner. And I have a freebie that will walk you through this, so don't feel like you have to write this down. If you're listening, you can get it all from my freebie on my website, which I'll share with you with that later. But I have a five minute video, it's called How to Write Compelling Copy in five Minutes Flat. And it will walk you through the components of story and show you how to write your one-liner, which is again, the shortest story you'll ever tell. And once you know those components, the hero with the problem meets a guide. With this solution, you want to be the guide as the coach, and you want to position your service as the solution to their problem and then show them all the wonderful success that they're going to experience and the failure that you're going to help them avoid.  When you go through the one-liner process, you basically, you build a very strong foundation for all your brand messaging. And so you can take that one-liner worksheet that you can get for free from me and use that anytime you're ever writing anything for your business. If it's social media, if it's a podcast interview that you're going to do, if it's an email that you're writing to your people, you follow that same formula. You begin with a hero who has a problem, you position your service as the solution, and you really show them what's in it for them. What kind of success are they going to experience once they've solved this problem? Yes, really knowing,  I would say the prerequisite steps are knowing your ideal client, knowing their pain points. So then you can eloquently go through and key messaging, but also know what are the pitfalls and the failures that they want to avoid? So getting into the pain and pleasure,  Getting into the pain and pleasure, and people are more motivated to take action around avoiding failure than they are to experience success. So you want to build a healthy tension between reminding them that you can help them avoid failure and reminding them also what's in it for them from a success standpoint.  And what do you think stops? Because we're saying this, as you said, it's so simply, it's so simple, and yet it becomes one of the most difficult parts of building a healthy brand and a business. What do you think stops coaches from being able to take the simplicity and turn it into magic?  Yes. What an important question, and I'm so glad you asked it because I want to let everybody off the hook around feeling crappy or feeling frustrated because you're paralyzed or you're writing your copy or writing your email or rewriting your website keeps falling to the bottom of the to-do list, and you're tired of staring at a blank screen and comparing yourself to other people on social media who show up and they seem prolific to you. So first off, everybody struggles with this. Everybody does. And there's a reason why it's so hard, and it's called the bottle effect. And the bottle effect just means that when you own your own business, you are so close to it that you are living inside of the bottle trying to read the label. That can only be read from outside the bottle. It is literally impossible. It's like holding your face up, holding your hand up to your face and trying to describe what your hand looks like to somebody else.  So that's why it's so hard. And then the other thing, if that's not hard enough, the other thing that's going on is called the curse of knowledge, which just means when we've been in our industry for several years or more, we really forget what it's like to not know what we know. And so we end up using language and getting into details that are over our potential client's heads or just feel like, yeah, just over their heads or they're just not really able to connect with it. And so between those two things, it becomes really hard to write your own copy. It can feel impossible.  So would you say that with this simple method that a coach will be more inclined to sit down and write copy or there are strategies that coach can use? One of the strategies that I always said to a coach is, take a phone record yourself. Don't even do it on Zoom so you're not looking, but just record yourself or do it on Zoom on audio only and record some of those stories that are really relevant. What would you say for a coach that does want to write their copy?  If you're a coach and you want to write your own copy, then I would definitely read the book Building a StoryBrand, I would definitely download the freebie that I have@reddoordesigns.com to get you started. And then I think it's really important just like coaches, just like people need coaches, oftentimes it's not rocket science what you're delivering for your clients, but they need you as a coach because you can show up with fresh eyes and perspective that they can't have an accountability. And that's what I do the same thing for my clients that coaches do for their clients. So it's really important to have an expert there that can,  We are so close to our own brand and sometimes we get, as you said, lost in some of those original stories of what is it like to not know this information? And we take for granted some of those pain problems because we forget what it was like going through that process.  What would you say is an exercise for somebody if they want to pull out some of these stories? Is there an exercise other than the one that we talked about to kind of map out their stories?  Well, you really have one main brand story, and that story doesn't change. I mean, you can reword it in multiple ways, but really once you create your brand story, you can stick with it for years and years to come, so you don't have to drum up a bunch of different stories. There's also your origin story, which is kind of a different type of story that's more like the history of you and how you're now doing the work that you're doing. Nobody really cares that much about the origin story. The origin story, I hate to say it,  I hate to say it, but I mean if you are drawn and really want to create your origin story, go for it. But don't put it on your homepage, put it on your about page, and that's fine. If you're really looking to convert and you're really looking to attract more clients, you create one story and you use the StoryBrand framework and you can follow it through that book if you like, or you can hire somebody like me to do it for you  To help flush it out. What would you say is an example? Can you give an example that may be taking this framework into a coach that is, let's just say a weight loss coach and their clients are ages menopause, so we're talking like 55 plus. They try everything to lose weight. It definitely is hormonal. They know that they're going through menopause, so they are very keen to that word and understand it. Yeah, some of the pitfalls that they've had is they've tried every different diet out there that has just become extremely frustrating, especially at a time in life where you're supposed to be really enjoying yourself getting back to who you are.  So we would start with identifying the hero or the character and saying, many women over 50 or many women in menopause or mini perimenopausal women. So just in that few words, we're identifying who we're talking to and then we want to identify the problem that they're having. Many menopausal women are frustrated by weight gain and an inability to lose the weight. So now we've identified the problem and then now we want to step in as the guide and position our service as the solution. So it might be something like my three month program helps them shed the weight for good. So notice I didn't get into all the details or the features of my program. I just said, what does the program do? My three month program helps them shed the weight or reach their goal weight, and then we want to remind them the success that they're going to feel so they can keep up with their grandchildren so they can enjoy travel so they can feel their best, feel confident.  So that's would be a one-liner, and that is really the beginning, the foundation of you getting clear about your story and what it's about. So if we put that all together, many menopausal women are frustrated by weight gain and an inability to lose the weight. My three month program helps them shed the pounds for good so they can feel energized, confident, and live their best life. So this is on the fly, but that's actually a full story. You were talking to a menopausal woman, she would be totally pulled into that because our brains, when you begin your story with a problem, our brains can't help but engage. So that's how we pull people in. And if we were to take that one-liner and kind of bring it over to the website environment, this might be that one-liner would work well in your social media profiles, in your email, signature in conversation.  So that's something that you'd want to memorize over and over again. And then if we brought that over to a website environment, you'd want to add some layers and texture to it, some other ingredients to it, which would involve giving them a plan. So calling them to action with a plan, here's how it works, step one, step two, step three, and reminding them that you're going to help them avoid failure. So we want to again, build that healthy tension. But there is a section, what I call the guide section on your page where you kind of talk a little bit, you go a little bit more in depth about your story, but it's more as it relates to them. And then layered on the page, you want to be building trust and authority the whole way through with testimonials and other kind of, maybe you're a life coach, school coach or you've got other accreditations or you've  Worked with or you've been featured in different magazines, something  Like that. Yes. Or you've worked with a hundred clients or even 50 clients. So layering in that trust and authority is really an empathy, is really how you show up as the guide with really what you want to lead with, empathy with everything that you do, just understanding their frustration to this problem.  I love that you brought up the social media profiles because that one liner, as you said, really becomes that main building block for somebody to come in and know, I help menopausal women lose weight for good.  Most people talk about themselves in their social media profile, and I get why they do that. It's like, duh, it's my profile. I'm going to talk about myself. But really what will help you stand out is if you talk about your clients rather than yourself.  What do you think is the biggest mistake that coaches make in their messaging  Talking about themselves too much? And again, this is 99.9% of the internet. If anybody is self-employed, they have a website and they automatically think It's my website. I need to talk about myself. And so that's where the story begins with them talking about themselves. And it's so understandable. I realize why this happens. And I think once you understand the framework and you kind of flip that on its head, then essentially, let me tell you what happens when we talk about ourselves too much. We become the hero of our own story, and there is only room for one hero in every story. And so we kick any potential client out of our story when we are the hero of it. And that happens a lot when you're on the internet. You're looking for someone who can solve your problem and you go to their website and you're like, oh, she seems cool. She seems nice, but I'm not feeling a connection. And so you leave that site and you keep looking until you feel a connection. And we don't know this because it's not conscious. We are not aware of it, but that's what happens. So someone will keep looking until they feel a connection with somebody, and if we want to create a connection, we talk about them, not about us.  I love that. Is there anything that I'm missing when we think about the world of storytelling and copywriting and messaging that I haven't asked you?  Oh my gosh. I mean, your questions have been so wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, very, very poignant and I think really helpful for, I can tell you're really in touch with your audience. Well,  I made that mistake. I made that mistake in the beginning talking about my story. My story was coming out of gut issues, leaky gut, asthma, life support, twice gastritis, all these different things that had happened. And I made the mistake of just leading with that story and it got me some clients, but it didn't get me. It made me 12,000 for that year. I also had undercharged drastically because I had a whole bunch of self-confident issues. But once I started realizing that it was my story that became what I could stand on, but so much of appealing to somebody was really talking about their pain, what they wanted to have happen in their life, and really touch on some of the strategies that they have tried before that they didn't want to fail again. And so once I made that shift, it really shifted my entire business. And I started, of course, attracting clients much more greater at a greater pace, thank goodness. But it also, it gave me an understanding for marketing. I think that's the big difference that I see is when you're just speaking about yourself, you can have a business and you can probably get some clients, but you're not going to reach the capacity of people that you need to make money and also to change lives.  Exactly. I mean if all coaches are in business because they love the work and they love helping people, and so if you can position yourself, you as the go-to person that can solve this problem for other people, then you get to reach more people and they get to solve their problems. So it's really limiting when we aren't telling the right story. It really puts constraints on our ability to make a huge difference in the world.  And when we're not speaking to our ideal client, I can't tell you how many coaches, I will say, can you name 10 pain points? And they're like, this is where I struggle. And yet they have spent so much money learning how to build a course, learning all these different courses that are taking them to this next level of marketing or understanding marketing or email marketing, yet they're having a difficult time because they haven't taken that time to do the market research and to really step into the shoes to feel it, to see it, to hear it from what their client is struggling with.  And honestly, you don't even have to do market research can feel like kind of a daunting, boring, dry thing science class, but really with the Google Doc that I have available for free, you'll have the opportunity to really dig deep and just to brain dump without analyzing how you're writing it down, just brain dump all the things that you hear when you're on the phone with your clients, what are they telling you in their words? Meet them where they are and really, and then keep that Google doc and anytime you ever need to write a post or write anything for your business, you go back to that what I call kind of the copy bible of your brand, and you always begin with the problem and things just start to flow once you begin with their problem because your heart opens up, you begin to be reminded of the empathy that you already have for your clients, and you are also reminded that you've got the solution you can help them get to where they want to go. All they care about, they don't really care about you. Again, I hate to say it, it sounds negative, but it's like all they want to know is that you can solve their problem.  Going to be the best one to solve it, and they're not going to hire the best one to solve their problem. They're going to hire the one that can connect with them the most. So if you are really good at solving this problem,  Get really good at writing your copy or hire somebody. I think that's really what it boils down to because I know my first copywriter was Hillary Weiss and she drastically, she was better for me than almost any other coach I hired. She helped me to see clearly the mistakes I was making. It was when I put my big girl panties on and got my first real website, I hired her and it was such a difference. It was such a difference. And she really imprinted my life.  Yes, and changed the way that you do business forever changed the way you talk about your business. I really believe that your website should act as your top sales employee. It should be selling for you 24 7 and doing a damn good job at it. And that way you can focus on doing the work that you love. And what happens with social media and marketing in general is just like everyone's got a different solution and we end up going down rabbit holes or taking this course or that course and getting distracted. And the reality is, if you just put on the blinders and focus on telling your story, you do it once and then you can copy and paste it to every other area of your communication and marketing. It will change your business completely. The other point that I want to make is that as coaches, we feel like we have to do all the things.  We have to be on social media, we have to be everywhere. But the reality is I like to think of your website as the center of, if you envision a bike tire and all the different spokes are coming out of it, that center hub of your bike wheel is your website. So if you don't have that totally dialed in, the outer spokes of that bike are like social media, networking events, all the other things that keep us busy, but everything really does ultimately point back to that website. And if your website isn't converting, it's not the end of the world. It just means you're going to have to be working a lot, a lot, a lot more and selling a lot harder. And who wants to do that?  That's such a great point. I love it. I have loved this episode because I feel like this is one of the top big pain points when I think I always think about pricing as a big pain point messaging and the copywriting as the other because they're just, you can't have a successful business without being keyed into those pain points being keyed into how to turn those pain points into a profitable message. So can you tell everyone where to find your gift?  Yeah, my gift, you can find it@reddoordesigns.com. That's R-E-D-D-O-O-R-D-E-S-I-G-N-S, plural red door designs.com. You can find my freebie there, which is how to write compelling copy in five minutes and it'll walk you through the things that we talked about today. And then also, I love working with coaches and entrepreneurs helping them. I have a done for you copy service, so I write your copy and the offer is called StoryBrand copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat.  The beauty of that is you guys are busy and who wants to spend a bunch of time on this after they've been procrastinating on it for over a year. So I do all the heavy lifting and it only takes you as my client two and a half hours total to have completely new website copy that is going to act as your top sales employee. Also with that copy, you have your brand copy Bible, so you never have to reinvent the wheel to when it comes to messaging or copy.  Well, thank you so much, Kris. I really appreciate you being here. And guys, make sure to follow this woman. Make sure to download the freebie as you saw today in this episode, it's so important to have a compelling message because if not, you are going to work harder and it's going to feel stressful, and then you're going to end up quitting on the dream that you have. So don't make that mistake and hire somebody like Kris. All right guys, I'll see you on the next episode. Take it easy.  All right guys, that is all for today. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe to the show so you don't miss any future episodes while you're there. It would mean the world to me if you take just a few seconds and me an honest review. Truth is I love honesty. Your review has helped me to reach even more health coaches and wellness professionals who are ready to explode their business and want the truth in this non BSS approach. You can find all the links and the information mentioned in this episode at ww dot rachel a feldman.com/podcast. Alright, so don't forget to tag me on Instagram at Rachel a Feldman and let me know what was your favorite part of the episode. This will help me to create even better content for you. Bring on awesome peeps to tell you the truth about how they built their business, plus other speakers to help you take your business to the top without overwhelm. Thanks for listening and I'll see you guys soon. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/masterful-coach ### Title: Clear Copy That Converts: An Interview with Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5047209 ### Content: ## Clear Copy That Converts: An Interview with Kris Jones ## The Masterful Coach Podcast, with Molly Claire and Kris Jones Clear Copy That Converts: An Interview with Kris Jones **Have you ever felt paralyzed when trying to write your own copy?**  Like you're stuck at the starting line, unsure of what to say or how to say it?  I recently chatted with Molly Claire, and I’m so excited to share it with you. This episode is a must-listen for coaches, consultants, and anyone eager to uplevel their business this year. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ?  Simple strategies to start writing with confidence. ?  How to stop cringing when sending people to your website. ?  Learn a simple way to turn your services into an engaging narrative. I get it; as business owners, we often feel spread so thin, and writing copy can fall to the end of your To-do list.  That's why our conversation is filled with simple advice to not only streamline your copywriting process… but also to connect more authentically with your clients. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Intro: Welcome to the Masterful Coach Podcast with Molly Claire. If you’re a coach who’s ready to impact more lives, make more money, and create a life you love, you are in exactly the right place. Get the support you deserve as a female entrepreneur. Master your coaching skills, grow your ideal business, and to honor your priorities in your personal life. Are you in? Let’s get started with your host, bestselling author, and master life and business coach, Molly Claire. Molly Claire: Hey, coach. All right. Well, if you have ever struggled with copy on your website or maybe wondered how to formulate the perfect sales page that will actually draw your clients in and move them to clicking yes to signing up with you, this episode is for you. I know these are questions across the board for online business owners, coaches, consultants. I love helping to answer these questions for you, and today’s guest is going to do just that. I’m thrilled to bring you Kris Jones today, who is a story brand guide. She has founded Red Door Designs where she specializes in helping you to create powerful copy. As you’ll hear from the interview, she shares a little bit about her background and how storytelling has always been an element of the work that she has done, even visual storytelling with design on websites. Since recording this interview, I had the amazing opportunity to work with Kris personally. It was a phenomenal experience. The process was very simple for me, very streamlined, and really brought out some powerful stuff in our work together to create what I think is an awesome sales page. And in fact, you can check it out on my website to see a little bit about how Kris works. She actually helped me to launch Create a Killer Program for Your Clients. This is a program that I’m running this fall as you’re listening to this. Enrollment is full. However, I will be opening the doors again for another group this fall before the holidays hit. So definitely, if you are interested in either checking out the way that Kris works with clients to format sales copy, or if you are interested in joining the wait list to Create a Killer Program for Your Clients, make sure to go to mollyclaire.com. Click on the Work With Me tab, and you will see that program there when you click that program button. You’ll be able to see the amazing work that Kris and I did together, and you can also find out more about that program, of course. All right, coaches, let’s go ahead and dive into this interview with Kris Jones. All right, coaches, I’m so excited to introduce you to Kris today, especially because I know it can be really easy for us to get stuck when it comes to copy. Kris has been at this for a long time and she’s gonna be bring some great tips. Hello, Kris. How are you? Kris Jones: Hey Molly. I’m doing great. How are you? Molly Claire: Good, good. I’m so excited to dive into this topic with you because some people feel that, you know, copy can flow pretty easily and others would rather die than write copy. And then there’s everyone in between, right? But so, tell us a little bit about who are you? What do you do? Why do you love it? Kris Jones: Uh, well, I’m Kris. I have a boutique agency in Portland, Oregon called Red Door Designs. And as you mentioned, I’ve been at this for a long time, like 20 years. The work I do is really my purpose in life. I am lucky enough to have found it early, in my younger years and just stuck with it. My history really began with visual storytelling. I got really good at branding and design and, eventually even designing websites. But as time went on and the internet landscape evolved, beautiful design really wasn’t enough anymore to get my clients the results that they were needing in order to thrive in their business. Molly Claire: So, yes. Yes. And I assume your clients, all kinds of just online business owners. Kris Jones: Yes, I work with a lot of coaches. I work with anyone who’s a service-based entrepreneur. Several years ago now, I had a client come to me. Her name was Elise. And she was in the publishing industry, but had this business idea that she wanted to get off the ground. And she came to me and said, “Okay, I’ll write the website. You design it, and we’ll, you know, launch this thing.” And so I set the deadline, I think it was like April 3rd and. Sure enough, April 3rd came and she called me and she was just frazzled and frustrated, feeling stuck. She’s like, “I don’t know what is wrong with me. I cannot write my own copy. I keep trying and trying and I’m either, you know, what comes out isn’t good enough or, it just, it’s not working. I feel stuck.” And so, at that point, we brainstormed some ideas. She hired a copywriter and then another copywriter. Then we thought about maybe she talks to some old clients and gets some inspiration there. Anyway, she just felt completely stuck and paralyzed because when she outsourced the copy, it didn’t feel aligned with her voice. When you own your own business, your website and the messaging that you create really needs to feel a hundred percent aligned with who you are. Molly Claire: Absolutely. It really does because that’s your copy is for people reading your site, right? That’s how they get a flavor for who you are. That’s how they connect with you. It’s a big deal. And so I know that’s a challenge for a lot of people, right? That wanna outsource that, but is it my voice? So yeah, that makes total sense. Kris Jones: And when it isn’t your voice, then people ask for your website and you cringe. You’re like, “Ah, well, I don’t really want you to go to my website, but here it is. But kind of ignore that one section or that part. Like, I need to update it.” Right? “It’s in the process of being updated. Don’t go.” And so ultimately, I believe you should be excited to send somebody to your website. And not only that, but when they go to your website that they really get a sense of who you are and begin to resonate with you. Because no one’s gonna hire someone they don’t resonate with. We wanna really establish the website can be- essentially, your website can act as like a top sales employee that’s working for you 24/7. You can really do that work that you love – the coaching, and the helping your clients – and you’ve got these tools set up for you on a autopilot that are doing the things that you don’t like to do; the selling, the converting, the getting new clients, putting yourself out there. If you just have a website that’s dialed in, you can point everybody there and it does that heavy lifting for you. Yeah. Molly Claire: Yes, yes. Yeah, so, so with this client, so she’s outsourcing, she’s not aligned. Kris Jones: Thank you for getting me back on track. She just, she was stuck. She couldn’t hire it out, but she couldn’t write it herself. And so that experience, essentially was so hard for me because I didn’t feel equipped to help her. I could tell her visual story, but I couldn’t really tell the written story. And to be perfectly honest, at that point, even my own website was beautiful, but it wasn’t clear and compelling, and it wasn’t converting. I was relying pretty much solely on referrals for my business. Which, referrals are great, but they’re not reliable or consistent, predictable, I should say. And that experience – thank you, Elise – sent me on a journey to never let that happen again. And I decided to just learn everything that I could about story. I flew across the country, I attended story workshops. I practiced. I read. I basically immersed myself in it for a number of years. And came out on the other side with this approach that I have, which is really about marrying visual storytelling with written storytelling. And the truth is, most people on the internet, are maybe doing one or the other, but they’re not doing both. And when you do both, when your written story and your visual story are aligned, and they’re bringing each other to life, then you kind of bubble up to the top of the internet. And it’s much more easy to be remembered, to stand out, and to build your business. Molly Claire: So we’re talking about copy here, right? And you’re talking specifically about story. You started with visual story. I know when we were chatting before we started recording, you were sharing that as a child you liked to do visual storytelling and all this. So we’re talking about copy and you’re using the word story. Can you help my listeners to understand what you mean when you’re talking about story and their copy on their site? Kris Jones: Yes, absolutely. So, when I talk about story, I talk about story as it were from like the beginning of time. So, what is the thing that pulled us around the fireside from many, many, many years ago? It was storytelling. We as humans, we are really wired for story and it’s a way that we engage. When you tell a story, people lean in and they can’t disengage until that story is complete. And that’s why movies are so powerful. In this day and age when we are just so distracted and we have a million things going on, nothing has that power like when you go to a movie. Everything gets turned off and you get pulled into this story for 90 minutes. Nothing can capture our attention that way. What I’m a big believer of is using the timeless fundamentals of storytelling that you see in every movie that you watch, but applying that framework to your business. So every story you’ve ever heard, movie you’ve ever watched, every book you’ve ever read begins with a character, who I call a herok that has a problem. And that that hero doesn’t know how to overcome their problems. So they go out into the world, asking their friends, looking on the internet to find a guide to help them navigate and overcome this problem. So, one thing I I want your listeners to really cement into their memory is that they are not the hero, they are the guide. The guide is the Yoda or the Mr. Miyagi or the strongest person in every story. The hero’s actually the weakest character in the story, because they have a problem that they don’t know how to overcome. And so, essentially, we’ve got a character who has a problem. They meet a guide – that’s you as the coach – who gives them a plan that calls them to action. And that results in success and helps them avoid failure. That is the recipe for every darn story you’ve ever heard in your life. And so what’s beautiful is that each of those components – so there’s seven components there that I just reviewed – the character, the problem, the guide, the plan, the call to action, and then the result in success and avoiding failure. So think of those as ingredients that you might put into a big pot of chili. So you’ve got your beans and your tomatoes, and each of those are an ingredient. When you combine those ingredients into one page on your website you begin to tell a cohesive and compelling story. Molly Claire: I wanna jump in and bring something up. Because I think what I’m about to say is, I think this is in line with what you’re saying – but you let me know if I’m off with this – but I know something that some of my clients struggle with is they have a niche, they have people that they work with and they haven’t personally, overcome that challenge. And so some of them have kind of this fraud complex. “Well, I didn’t have this problem.” Like, I remember I had a coach who was a weight loss coach and she’d never struggled with her weight. And so she’s like, “I’m a fraud.” And I think, anyway, that what you’re saying, this idea that the client essentially is the hero, right? You are the guide. And so for my coaches listening, they don’t have to be the hero or to have figured it out to have story in their website, right? The idea is, the story is really telling about the journey and the process, and doesn’t necessarily have to be something that that person has experienced. Am I correct on that? Kris Jones: As the guide, you do not have to have overcome the problem yourself. You just have to know how to help other people overcome the problem. Molly Claire: Yes. Okay. I’m just gonna pause. Like, all of you listening right now, whether you’ve experienced some of what you help your clients with or none of it at all, you do not have to have overcome, and fix, and solved personally. You just need to know how. That’s really all we care about, right? We all just want someone who knows how to solve our problem. Kris Jones: Right. We don’t care if they’ve been through it or not. Kris Jones: If they’ve solved it for 50 other people and they know how to solve it enough, that’s all we care about. That’s really, that’s so true. Molly Claire: That’s right. Okay. I just wanted to highlight that because I know that’s a place where people get hung up. And I could see a lot of my listeners thinking, “Well, like, what if my story isn’t as exciting enough?” or something. That this isn’t really about your story, it’s about the story you tell that pulls people in as they read and, and potentially imagine themselves being the hero of that story you’re telling. Kris Jones: I think where it gets confusing is that a lot of us get confused around story. Because we think that our story has to be about us, right? As in like, our origin story, how we got into this business, and our background, and our great-grandfather immigrating to the US or whatever it is. Nobody cares about your origin story, I’m sorry. If you wanna write it, you certainly can, but I would tuck it away on a different page. Because that is really not super important in telling the story. When I talk about telling your story on your website, I’m really talking about inviting your potential clients into a story with you where they play the character as the hero, and you play the character as the guide. So, you’re pulling them into a narrative. And by including all these ingredients that I’m talking about, it becomes a story just like you throw a bunch of ingredients into a big pot, it becomes chili. But it’s not chili when it’s not cooked. Molly Claire: Right, right. I think this is an important distinction. And I think, even when I’m working with my clients and helping them, they want me to look at their website and go over the copy or whatever. And there are certainly places and ways that we talk about ourselves and say why we’re here and why we’re doing this. And, like I always say to my clients, the about me section is really still about your client. You’re saying things about you, but you wanna be saying it in a way that’s relevant to your clients. Everything, everything is focused on them, right. Kris Jones: A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. It looks like it’s about you, but it’s really about you as it relates to them. It’s really about you, as it relates to you solving their problem. Because that’s what they’re there for. They’re not there to just like, make friends with you by reading about how great you are. They want the help. That’s all they care about. They just wanna solve their problem. And the truth is, they’re not gonna find the person that can best solve their problem. Right? The best, most skilled person that can solve their problem, they might not even hire that person because maybe that person isn’t communicating clearly. They’re gonna hire the person that they resonate with, and that they feel a connection with. And that’s the power of story, is establishing that resonance and that connection and that trust. And then people feel compelled to wanna work with us. Molly Claire: Yes. Yes. Okay, so. I think it’s such a great word when we’re talking about writing emails, writing copy, and that idea of, we’re compelling people to take action. We’re compelling someone with our subject line to open the email. We’re compelling someone to continue to scroll and read and click and all of that. I know that something that you talk about is helping people write compelling copy in two and a half hours. So tell us more about that. What is the technique or some of the tips that you offer? Kris Jones: Yeah, well, I have two offers. I have a freebie that’s called How to Write Compelling Copy in Five Minutes Flat. Kris Jones: And so that really shows you the fundamentals of story. So if you like what I’m sharing today, that’s a freebie that you can download with a worksheet and a five minute video and it’s, Molly Claire: And we’ll have that here. We’ll have that here in the show notes. Is that on your website? Kris Jones: it’s on my website. Yeah. Okay. So it’s Red door designs. Yep. Molly Claire: It’s on her site and we’ll have it in the show notes and at the end of the show we’ll make sure to highlight all of that so they know. Kris Jones: Yes, but what I think what you’re talking about is my main offer, which is called Story Brand Copy That Sells In 2.5 Hours Flat. And so that service is a ‘done for you’ service that I created as a solution to what had happened with Elise. She was in that pickle of not being able to hire a copywriter, but not being able to write it herself and, but needing it to really feel aligned with her. And so, the other reality for all of us coaches and business owners is really, we’re wearing a lot of hats, and we don’t have a lot of time. And copywriting tends to take a lot of time because it’s challenging. And so, the process for me is, I believe that story is in you, it’s inside of you, it just needs to be pulled out. So kind of like cleaning out your garage. We empty out the garage and then I pull out all those bits of gold and all the treasures in there that are your story. So that is step one. And then I write your copy for you with that information. I’m able to write it for you, but it’s really aligned with who you are because those nuggets of information, all that gold within you has been pulled out. And that, I think, has taken me a couple decades to learn exactly how to pull that out in a really efficient way. That process takes about 45 minutes to an hour. And then after I’ve written your copy for you, we get on a 90 minute collaboration call where we really apply your voice to the copy. So we make sure that all the nuances about your clients and the work you do and your voice are applied to the copy at that point in time. And then you essentially transfer that copy over to your website, or you can have my team do that for you if you don’t wanna deal with it. And then that’s when I put out on my designer hat – my visual storytelling hat – and look at your website with design eyes and make sure the visual story you’re telling is really aligned with the written storytelling. So at that point, I’ll give you guidance and clear direction on fonts, colors, photography, flow, hierarchy of type, the whole thing. And then at that point you just turn on that ‘client getting faucet’ and it keeps bringing new clients for as long as you want. Molly Claire: We all wanna find that faucet. Right. So tell me, for my listeners who are taking a stab at doing their copy, and wanting to make it compelling, and wanting to maybe bring in this idea of the storytelling, what advice would you give them if they’re feeling stuck or frozen? Because we all know, we have big feelings come up, right? So, what advice would you give them? Kris Jones: Oh my gosh. Well, number one. You’re not alone. Like, everybody is struggling with this and there’s good reason behind it. It’s something I call the bottle effect, which is essentially, we’re all inside of our bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. We’re so close to our own business, it’s really hard to write about it. And then the other thing that happens, if you love your work and you’ve immersed yourself in it, we forget what it’s like to not know what we know. And so we tend to complicate our language, and speak in with terminology that’s really above our potential clients’ heads. And so when those two things happen, that’s why people tend to struggle. I actually have yet to meet an entrepreneur who is like, “Yeah, the writing part just comes easily to me.” Most everybody does struggle with it. The beautiful thing is the solution to that or that feeling stuck, moving beyond that is not that hard. And the key to it is really coming back to story. So when you get stuck, what we wanna come back to is, who’s the hero? Who’s the client that we’re working with, and what are the problems that they have? When you get on the phone with them, in their words, what are the things that they’re complaining about to you? Molly Claire: Yes, yes. I wanna highlight that again. ’cause I know, I say this to my clients all the time. They say the things and I’m like, but would your clients say that? I think it’s so useful to think about when this client is walking with their best friend or their neighbor, what are they telling them that they’re looking for? Like, what are they journaling about? And like you just said, when you’re on a consultation with them, what are the words they are using? And we forget that a lot of times, and we tell them all these things. Like you said, we forget what we know, right? We’re using all these words that are just, they don’t even realize that’s a thing. Kris Jones: Right. Or like, they might tell you their problem and really, you’ve been doing this. So you know that their real problem is actually something to, Molly Claire: Something else. That’s right. But they don’t know yet. They don’t have that awareness. So speak to the awareness they have now. Yeah. Kris Jones: right. So, when you begin any kind of copy that you write, with a problem that your clients face, our brains cannot help but engage. We get pulled into that story. So you’ll notice, whether it’s an Instagram post, or a website or you’re doing a podcast interview and they need a profile, you always wanna begin with the problem that your heroes or your clients are struggling with. What I’m gonna walk you through right now is three different steps to help you get unstuck with your copy. Kris Jones: The beautiful thing about this is it works like an accordion. So it could be a two sentence-long story, or it could be a three paragraph long post that you do, or blog that you do. But it follows the same three steps. So number one, you introduce the hero with a problem. It could be, many women over 40 struggle with their weight. Like, shorter is always better, especially when you’re coming up with your one-liner, which is what this. We want to introduce ourselves as the guide with the solution, and we don’t do that by naming like, who I am and what I’m all about. You just say my three month coaching program helps them achieve their ideal weight. So that right there, that sentence shows me stepping in as the guide and showing my service as the solution to their problem. And then step three is, all the wonderful benefits that they’re going to experience after they’ve solved the problem. Now, this is not the features of my program. This is not features. Features are about you. They’re not about the hero. We wanna really stay focused on the hero with all of our communications. And so it might mean, so they can feel more confident, take that vacation without the dread of overeating. We wanna show them that they can avoid failure too, right? I like to focus on all the benefits, so they can feel really confident, so they can keep up with their kids, so they can feel better in their body. Whatever it is, you wanna brain dump a bunch of benefits that they’re gonna experience. But I like to weave in one big one or three at the end of that. So it’s the hero with a problem is step one. Meet a guide with a solution, step two. And then show them what success will look like. Molly Claire: Short or long. We can and use it and repurposing it. Right? Like, using those elements in different places. And as you were talking about the benefits, I think that it’s so important for us as coaches to remember, that those of you listening, I think it’s so easy for us to minimize what we do when we’re selling it, and in it all the time. You really are providing a solution to something that really matters to your clients. And I think the more that we can inspire that hope and possibility and make it actually seem within reach, it’s a big deal. And that’s that driving force or that compelling piece of, “Wow, maybe I could have this.” So I just, I think that’s such an important part of it. Yeah. Kris Jones: Yeah. I think a lot of times that third step, we downplay it. We downplay it a lot. And I encourage my clients to really think big, think like, what is truly possible for them? What have some of your best clients gotten to experience? And think about those kind of top tier. Kris Jones: Because that’s what’s possible for them. Molly Claire: That’s right. Yeah. And I think this can be kind of a tricky or dicey area because I know a lot of my coaches are really hesitant. Like, “I don’t wanna promise something that I can’t deliver.” And definitely we want to make sure that we are not making false claims at all. And I think that there are, most likely if you are fearing that, you are probably way holding back on really sharing what actually is possible for them. So I wanna offer up to my listeners to be conscious of that because there’s a lot possible, and we wanna inspire hope in our clients. Kris Jones: We do, and just because that result hasn’t happened for a hundred percent of your clients, doesn’t mean that you can’t claim that it’s possible. Molly Claire: That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Okay. I have one more question for you, and then I would love for you to tell everyone where they can find you, and of course we’ll have everything in the show notes as well. But one of the things, well, I wanted to circle back and actually comment on this, how you were talking about like, we’re trying to read the label from the inside of the bottle. And I think that I definitely, I mean, I can look at my client’s copy. I can give them all kinds of what I think is pretty good advice, and when it comes to my own, it’s so easy for me to miss the mark. And so I just wanted to highlight that because whether you all wanna like check out Kris and work with her, or someone else, or do it yourself, I think it is vital to put it in front of other people’s eyes. Like, there are a lot of things in my business that I prefer to write the copy. I prefer to do it. And I always have to put it in front of other people because I just can’t see it. I can’t quite see it all, so Yeah, Kris Jones: It doesn’t matter who you are or how great you are. Copy, yeah. Molly Claire: it’s too close. It’s too close, right. Yeah. Okay. Well this has been great, Kris. Tell everyone where they can find you and follow you and Kris Jones: Yeah, so the best way to find me is at my website, reddoordesigns.com. And when you go there, you can sign up for my freebie. And that’s really walking you through these three steps that we just walked through. But you get a five minute video and a worksheet that will really help you get unstuck, but also you can keep using that worksheet for every piece of content that you create. And then if you’re just done DIYing your own copy and you just want someone to do it for you, but you want it to feel like your voice, then you can work with me on my Copy That Sells offer. And that all happens. Copy done for you in 2.5 hours flat. The other thing is you can always also follow me on Instagram and I am Red Door Design with no SS at the end on Instagram at Red Door Design. Molly Claire: Okay, perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Kris, thank you so much. This has been great. Kris Jones: I really loved our conversation. Thank you, Molly. Love it. All right, we’ll talk with you soon. Best wishes in your business? Intro: Thanks for listening. Listening to the Masterful Coach Podcast, are you ready to build your amazing business with Molly as your coach? Check out www.mollyclaire.com to find out about Masterful Coach Foundations and the 10 K accelerator method. It’s the ultimate support for you as a coach building your ideal life and business. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/get-out-of-your-head ### Title: How to Write Compelling Sales Copy that Explodes Your Revenue, with Marion Wagner and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5051109 ### Content: ## How to Write Compelling Sales Copy that Explodes Revenue ## Get Out of Your Head & Grow Your Online Business Podcast, with Marion Wagner and Kris Jones How to Write Compelling Sales Copy that Explodes Your Revenue, with Marion Wagner and Kris Jones **Have you struggled to create copy on your website that builds immediate trust and credibility?** In my recent conversation with Marion Wagner, we talked about the importance of clarity and simplicity in all areas of your marketing—especially your website! **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Craft a powerful one-liner that leads them on a journey to working with you. ? Discover the hidden potential of your website to act as your 24/7 top sales employee. ? Get expert tips on how to tell a story that increases sales. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Welcome to the Small Audience Big Income podcast. My name is Marion Wagner and I work with online business owners to take the guesswork out of lead gen and income growth. Having created multiple six figure plus businesses each in a different niche, I firmly believe you don't need a huge following, a large ad budget or a big team in order to make a serious impact and income online. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dive in  Today on the podcast. I'm thrilled to be welcoming Kris Jones, who is the founder of Red Door Designs. So Kris is a copywriter and a StoryBrand expert. And I was going to say it's funny, but not in a haha way, but more in a funny and interesting way that the StoryBrand podcast with Donald Miller was the very first podcast I ever listened to and got hooked on. And now it's called the Business Made Simple Podcast, but the StoryBrand framework still stands, and this is the blueprint through which Kris works with her clients to create websites and sales pages that convert. In this episode, we talk about sales copy and how you can create messaging that immediately slaps your ideal client in the face, but in a good way. And we also talk about the most common mistakes that she sees in the online space when it comes to writing copy and how you could instantly make some tweaks to your sales copy to grab the right people's attention. I hope you enjoy. Here's my conversation with Kris Jones. Kris, welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy that you're here.  This is such a hot topic. So I know we're going to be talking about copywriting, how to create effective messaging and storytelling. So why don't we just start off with hearing your story. How did you get to where you are and why do you do what you  Do? Freedom. Lots of freedom. I've been doing this for over 20 years now as an entrepreneur owning my own business. I just got notified that I bought Red Door designs.com as a domain. I think it was 21, 22 years ago now. So I'm like, really? Has it been that long? That's  Yeah, yeah. I have in hindsight always been wired for entrepreneurship, so it's no shock to me that this has been my path, but I spent many years working for other people, working for larger corporations prior to making that leap. Not many years, but enough to know that I really needed to do my own thing. So essentially I started my own business and was really focused more on visual storytelling, and I've always been a storyteller. As a child, I was, instead of playing with dolls, I was making pretend trifold vacation brochures and telling these visual stories. And that's really what got me into as an adult, the business that I started in, which was branding and design, which eventually morphed into website design. And initially, all you really needed at that phase of the internet, all you really needed was a beautiful website. And if you had that, your business would pretty much be able to thrive.  There wasn't a big high expectation around websites. I mean, it was great if they were beautiful, but as far as the messaging goes, it didn't matter quite so much. And so that's really what I focused on building and designing beautiful websites for my clients. As the online landscape changed, I started to notice that the websites weren't as effective as they had been. And even if I was really honest with myself, my own website wasn't working as well as it had before, and I was starting to really run a business that relied solely on referrals, which we love referrals, but it's not as sustainable way to run a business because it can be inconsistent and you just want to know what you're making every month and you've got money coming in and that you have a machine that's out there operating as a top sales employee, I think your website should act as your top sales employee.  So essentially what happened was there was this one client in particular that I had, her name was Elise, and she had a background in publishing, and so she was very comfortable with writing, and she came to me and hired me to design a beautiful website for her. And we set the kickoff date for the project, and she was going to get me all the copy for her website prior to our kickoff project kickoff date, which was like, I think it was April 10th. And what happened was she called me on April 10th and she said, oh my gosh, I don't know what is wrong with me. I cannot write this website copy. I don't know what to say. I feel paralyzed. It's so frustrating. I don't know why this is so hard for me. I mean, I've got a background in writing, so what's my problem? And I was like, oh my gosh, I don't know.  I'm sorry, I feel for you, but I don't know how to help you. And so we brainstormed some ideas for her around hiring a copywriter or asking a friend or even asking her previous clients for feedback on what was different about her and things like that. But she tried multiple things. She tried all those things, and none of them really worked because ultimately what was happening is that she was trying to kind of outsource her copy, which also meant outsourcing her voice. And she knew enough to know that the copy didn't feel like her. It wasn't aligned with her voice. And when you are the face of the business, the copy has got to really feel like you, and when it does, you get excited to send people to your website rather than cringing when you give somebody your website address. And so even though in that situation, I really wasn't able to help her, the gift of that was I declared that I would never let that happen again.  And so I went on a mission, a quest to solve this problem, to not only tell beautiful visual stories, but also beautiful, effective written stories on websites. So that could be the most powerful tool in your toolbox of running your business. And I traveled across the country to workshops. I became a StoryBrand certified guide. I read books, I practice on projects, and I practice on my own website. And it was quite unbelievable. What happened happened fairly quickly, once I really understood how to tell written stories on your website and paired that with really gorgeous visuals, my clients were calling me and going, people are booking with me without even needing a sales call, or I'm actually charging six times more for the same service, or I've just hit my first 10 KA month. I kept getting feedback like that over and over again. And not only that, my own website started really working for me, so I was also able to charge more. I was also getting booked out, and I've just never looked back, never. Every project that I do, I apply those principles and they're incredibly powerful.  That's amazing. I love, yeah, it was a totally different ball game 15 years ago in the online space. I love that. How if you have a website, then you're winning. And now, we were just talking about this before the call, how it really is about this not only a battle, but it is like you really want to help people gain the attention of their ideal client, and that's not always very easy. So, alright, we always say that you can't convert someone if you don't have their attention. So what would you say to someone who's listening right now who's wondering, okay, that's great, but how the heck do I grab the attention of my dream client with my copy?  Yeah, it's not hard, as you might think, because the hardest way to grab their attention is to talk about yourself. And I know that sounds counterintuitive as a business owner, like, well, it's me. I'm the brand, I'm the business, and don't people want to know about me and everything that I can do for them? And the answer is,  What people care about is themselves and not in a negative way, but we're all doing our best and we're all trying to solve our own problems. And so the quickest, most effective way that you can really grab their attention is to talk about them, talk about your ideal clients, talk about the struggles that they're having. That is the best way, if you can brain dump all the problems that they're struggling with. And when you get on the phone with them, what are they sharing with you? What's waking them up in the middle of the night and just, you might have five or 10 that are themes that you keep hearing over and over again. And if you begin your communications with that, with the problem that they're having, all kinds of cool things are going to happen. They're going to immediately feel like you get them, that you understand their problem. And the more clearly you can articulate their problem immediately, they think you're going to be the best one to solve it. They feel seen, they feel heard, and fundamentally you begin to establish a resonance with them, and that is how you want to begin this relationship. So that's a simple way to do it.  I love that. We've talked on this podcast before about the different stages of awareness and how when people are in that problem aware phase, if what they're reading matches up with what they're feeling and they're aware of that they have this problem, it kind of smacks 'em across the face like, oh, I'm going to pay attention.  That pulls 'em in. Our brains literally cannot help but engage. When we begin our story with a problem that they face, our brains cannot help but engage.  So the question is, okay, so you have someone's attention, and then we want to convert them on some level, whether it's they give an email address for something or they sign up to become a client. What is the best way to create copy that carries people through this little journey from attention to conversion?  So, okay, we've pulled them in by letting them know that we understand their problem. They will not disengage at this point. And then what we want to do next is position our service as the solution to their problem. So that means introducing ourselves as the guide with a solution. Our service is the solution to those problems that we just shared. So every story, if you want to talk about it in its simplest of terms, it begins with a hero who has a problem that they can't solve. That's your client. Your client is the hero. You are not the hero, you're the guide. And so every story begins with a hero that has a problem that they can't solve, and then they meet a guide that has a solution, and that solution is your service. So you want to position it in that way. And then if they follow your plan or engage with your solution, they're going to experience success.  So you really want to paint a picture of what's their life going to look like? Paint a picture of a better future for them now that they have solved this problem. And when it comes to that, it's really important to talk about benefits as it relates to them in their life. Not features about your service, not features that you offer, but benefits that they are going to actually experience. And when you do it that way, you're checking all the boxes of a story. And that is the most powerful way to build trust, help them realize that you are the best person to solve their problem, and at that point they will want to engage with you. Now, there are two ways that people engage with you. Typically, one is kind of a baby commitment, which is getting your freebie and your freebie. What you want that to do is solve the problem for them, solve maybe one 10th of their problem, but your service will solve the full problem for them, right? Yes, a hundred percent of their problem. But your freebie should solve 10% of you want them to have a little win with their freebie.  It's like one bite, not the whole enchilada, just one.  Exactly. A hundred percent. And so when they're giving your email, that's a really big deal, and that is showing that they're really invested in wanting to solve this problem. And also very curious about your capability to solve the problem. So you want to make sure that your freebie is really going to give them value and begin to nurture that relationship with generosity and trust and help them really get to know you, because a lot of people don't make quick, big decisions around working with somebody. And then the other thing you want to do, depending on how you do your service, is you want to give them an opportunity to get on a call with you or buy your course. And that's a bigger commitment. So telling a story will, we'll also do that same job. It just depends on where they are in their journey and how ready they are to solve the problem.  Yes. Because once they're problem aware, then they become solution aware and they're looking at options. And so yes, if you're just opening the door and saying, Hey, this is a solution, if it lines up with their timing, like you said, where they are, then  Yep. Can you think of an example? I love examples of a client or something where you had a story that converted really well and what that looked like.  Yeah. Yeah, I can. So what I think every business owner needs is like a one-liner or one statement that is a story that will sell for you on autopilot, whether someone's asking you what you do, or I would say once you have this little mini story, which I call a one-liner, you put it in your social media profiles, you put it on your website, you put it in the footer of, not in the footer, but in the signature part of every email that you send out, you want to beat this one drum of the problem that you solve everywhere. LinkedIn, banner, I don't care. Just literally put it everywhere. And don't feel like you have to invent the wheel because people need to hear things or read or hear things like eight times before they can actually commit it to memory. And so when you beat that same drum, you're really helping build the strength of your brand communications.  So an example would be like a coach, let's just say like a parenting coach. There's a one-liner example I can share there. It's many toddler moms feel overwhelmed because there aren't enough hours in the day to get it all done. I help them change their relationship with time so they can parent with more joy, peace, and connection. So you'll notice there that that's two sentences, but it includes all those ingredients of story, which we just went through. So many toddler moms feel overwhelmed because there aren't enough hours in the day to get it all done. So this is what her clients were telling her. There's just not enough hours in the day to get it all done. And then I helped them change the relationship with time. So that part is like her introducing herself as the guide and her solution is I help them change their relationship with time. That's her solution, or her course and her coaching program does that. And then she's painting a picture of a better future for her clients. So I help them change their relationship with times so they can parent with more joy, peace, and connection. That's their huge win for solving this problem.  Yes, that's their vision. That's what they want. Love that. Oh my gosh, I have a, now she's nine months old. I'm like, I might need to know that course coming up.  That's funny. Alright, so why can't someone just hire a copywriter and call it good?  Well, kind of back to the story with Elise, yes. Often when we outsource our own voice, it doesn't feel truly authentic to us. Also, there's a lot of great copywriters out there and it's really an important industry and I consider myself a copywriter, so it's like I'm not against outsourcing it, but I do think the process needs to be really collaborative. And it took me a long time to figure out how to do this in a really effective way. Because what can happen is you end up hiring it out, but then the revisions and the back and forth take so long that you probably could have written it yourself anyway, and now you're out a bunch of money and time. And so the way I work with clients is I kind of pull that gold outside of their brain out from inside their brain. And there's a thing called the bottle effect. Have you heard of this?  No, it's really true. For a hundred percent of business owners, at least I have yet to meet one that isn't suffering with this syndrome. It's really that we're inside of the bottle when we own our own business, we are inside of the bottle and we're trying to read the label that can only be read on the outside of the bottle. And so that's why number one, it's so hard to write for ourselves, but that's also why it's really important to get outside perspective, to give you guidance and clarity.  I am a sucker for analogies. And so that's a great one. That's also why I believe in coaching and partnering with the right people, because sometimes you can't see your own blind spots because  Yeah, the bottle effects, you're in the bottle. It's so true. Yeah.  Okay, so what are some common mistakes that you see? I mean, you've already mentioned some of them where they make them, if you are talking about yourself too much or talking about features versus benefits, but what are some common mistakes you see online business owners making when it comes to writing copy? That converts?  Number one, trying to do it yourself. I think just because you're a good writer or you got great grades in school and English because of the bottle effect, I think it's just really hard to write your own copy. And sometimes you can muscle your way through it, but writing for a website is so different than writing for a blog or writing for an email. And so it's really about how to write copy in a way that pulls people in. But also, it's got to be so simple because the way people navigate websites these days on mobile and they're scrolling really quickly, and so you have to essentially, large bodies of text will not get read. And so you don't want your website to be filled with large paragraphs.  Yes, I was even talking about this with a client yesterday about emails and how now I break my emails into almost one maximum two sentences, paragraphs.  Yes. Because our eye needs breathing room in between that copy in order to actually digest it. And also we are just scrolling really quickly. So you've got to figure out how to get those words into the eye and into the brain and absorbed. And that's another way to do it too. Yeah.  Okay. We're just getting to be a lazy, don't give me a big paragraph. Just short little. Yeah.  The other thing too on a website that can be really important to do is just little things like little icons above will let the eye know that, oh, this is important. I should pay attention to this. And so it kind of tackles both parts. So our brain is digesting information both visually and written. And when you combine the two together, if you, let's just say you are highlighting three big benefits that they're going to experience from getting to work with you, then put an icon with each of those benefits that kind of visually bring that benefit to life. So it basically shows that it's more important, it's also going to be absorbed. It'll be coming at them from two parts of the brain.  Amazing. So that's a great tip because the whole point of this conversation is really how to create compelling sales copy. And so that pairing that visual with the three points of the benefits of working with you. Yes. Any other tips on creating, they could listen to this episode and then go to their website and make little tweaks right  Much time do we have? Another really, really great one is we want to, as the guide, we want to show up with empathy and authority, and that's how we be the best guide, and that's how we position them as the hero. So you want to be doing that, but one really great way to be the guide is to give them a plan of what you want them to do next. So the hero, which is your client, they come to your website and they're wanting to solve their problem. They don't want to try and figure out what to do next. And often what we'll do is want to give them all kinds of options, like learn more, schedule a call, one other call to action, I dunno, I can't think of one right now, but multiple calls to action. They don't want choices. They want someone to tell them what to do to solve the problem, and otherwise they would've already solved the problem themselves.  So you want to be really clear on what you want them to do next. And a great way to do that is to show them that you have a plan for what to do next. So you want to kind of like those visual icons that we just talked about. You can do this also with the plan, have a big number one and a big number two and a big number three. And then below the step one would be the main call to action. So step one, schedule a call with me. Step two, I will support you in resolving this problem or overcoming these challenges. Step three, what's the happy end result that they're going to experience? So they feel, I mean, this does two different things. Number one, it just tells them that you're in charge and that you know how to solve this problem so they don't have to be figuring out how to do it.  And the other thing that it does is it allows them to really feel like usually they're overwhelmed. Like, oh my gosh, I just want to solve this problem and it's going to take me a year to do it, and it's going to take 250 things that I have to change in order to get to this resolution. And you're telling them, no, no, no. I know how to solve the problem. I have streamlined it for you, and in three simple steps, you're going to get to your happy end result. So that's a really easy way to update your website, kind of put yourself more in that authority role.  Oh, I love that. And it's true. People, they pay for outcomes, they pay for solutions, and they also just pay for certainty. And when you can paint that in a simple way, it's almost like when you're talking, I don't have any anxiety, but if I did, it would be like, oh, that makes it so much easier. Because it also helps with the certainty of investing as to what's going to happen next after I click this button and I send money. Okay, now what? Well, you've already told them.  Yeah, they know exactly what to expect. So you just overcome some big hurdles. Another thing you can do probably pretty quickly, all of this stuff can probably be done within an hour of logging onto your website and tweaking it would be to audit your testimonials. And so a lot of what we do as a business owner, and I have been guilty of this in the past for sure, is I would ask a client, okay, can you give me a testimonial? And I would let them write it and not give them any guidance, and then they'd come back with this long paragraph of copy and I'd copy and paste that into my website. But what I would challenge your listeners to do is to go review all the testimonials on your page and delete anything that doesn't speak to the struggle that they were experiencing before working with you and the happy end result that they're experiencing now that they did work with you and now that they've worked with you, delete everything else.  You want people to read those testimonials and be like, oh, that person was in the same boat as I am with their struggle and oh, look at the result that they got from working with so-and-so and so, delete everything else. Delete anything that says Amy was so much fun, or Amy was really just really great and really fantastic and she was available and she, that's all about you and that feels good for us to read. I love getting that kind of feedback from my clients, but that's not what's going to be effective for you to feature on your website.  Yes, we have to paint the outcome, not the process really. I wrote down what you said here, I can't tell you how many testimonials I have where people are just, they're so kind and they're like, we had so much fun doing this, but you're right. Struggle. And then the experience and result. Love  Okay, last question, and I have to ask this because I feel like it's a hot topic right now, is artificial intelligence AI does, I hear people talking about how it's going to replace copywriters. I don't really see that, but does it help or hurt the sales copywriting process to use AI or what are your thoughts on that?  I think that AI is really a powerful tool. I like to think of it like a really, a winning racehorse. It has the muscle and the power behind it to win, but any winning racehorse needs a jockey in order to ride it and guide it. And so I am not anti AI at all. This is where we are and I think we can all use it to support us in kind of getting unstuck or getting over feeling paralyzed around our content. And I think that AI can act as a really wonderful content generator if you feed it with the information in your business about your business that it really needs to know. I don't think that AI is an effective strategic copywriter at all. You really have to ride that horse. And I think it can often take as much time to try and get AI to do it as it would be to create it yourself as a copywriter, as a strategic sales page copywriter, no, you can't rely on it for that. It really does require know-how around exactly what you want and how to ask it for what you want in each and every section on your page. But if you're going to write a blog and you're really just needing it to generate content for blogs or even social media, then AI is awesome for that.  Yeah, I think the elements that make sales copy compelling, that work, at least for me, where I'm just like, where do I sign up that button is when it has personality and it really speaks to my pain points. And it's probably hard for AI to know exactly what to show that personality.  Yeah, it's really your voice. You can't outsource it whether you're trying to hire it out to another human or you're trying to have AI do it for you, your unique voice and the nuances of the way you speak cannot be replicated by somebody else. And that's really how back to the resonance piece, people resonate with you because of the way you are and the energy that comes through your copy. And a robot isn't really going to be able to capture that, but it can certainly help you maybe  One day. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, Kris, this has been amazing. How can people connect with you?  Well, if you want to dig deeper into the things that we talked about today, you can get my freebie from my website. It will show you how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. So it's a five minute video that comes with a little worksheet that will literally change the way that you talk about your business in every area. So that's a really powerful freebie. It's completely free. And then if you are done DIYing your own copy and just want to turn your website into your top performing sales employee, then you can hire me to work with you one-on-one, and what we do is craft StoryBrand website copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat. So it's very, for a lot of us that wear mini hats and feel like our plates are full, we just want it done and we want to know it's done right and we want it to get a return on our investment, then that's the best way to do that. And all that's at red door designs.com. That's R-E-D-D-O-O-R-D-E-S-I-G-N s.com.  And we'll link to it below, but love it. This is fun stuff with business, I think is crafting the messaging that resonates with your ideal client. So thank you so much, Kris for being here.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/game-on-girlfriend ### Title: How to Write Sales Copy That Sells, with Sarah Walton and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5051110 ### Content: ## How to Write Sales Copy That Sells ## The Game On Girlfriend Podcast, with Sarah Walton and Kris Jones How to Write Sales Copy That Sells, with Sarah Walton and Kris Jones **Do you ever find it challenging to create a single message that effectively communicates with multiple types of clients and resonates with each of them?** In a recent enlightening conversation with Sarah Walton, we talked about the power of story and how to use it to grow more efficiently. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Uncover the unfortunate truth about making yourself the hero of your own story. ? Get expert tips for when it’s appropriate to use AI in content creation. ? Discover the art of persuasive storytelling to accelerate your business growth. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. You are listening to episode number 202 of the Game On Girlfriend podcast. Today I am bringing you Kris Jones. She is a StoryBrand guide and she's the founder of Red Door Designs. This is the episode for you. If you have been struggling with sales copy, you know what I'm talking about, like you stare at a sales page, whether you've decided to work on a template with Squarespace or WordPress or one of the magical template companies out there, and you're staring at the space going, I don't know what to put here, or you're staring at a blank Google Doc because your designer is waiting for copy. This episode is going to change how you write that copy and it's going to make it a lot more effective. Kris is a joy to talk to. I love her backstory. I hope you really listen in for that because she allowed herself to be led by a client.  We always love when this happens. It makes me very happy and she remembered it so well. She even knows the date. So listen for that. Sometimes life smacks us upside the head for that. I loved Kris's honesty about that and how she shared that, but I also want you to understand that when Kris works with her clients on their copy, they can see up to a 300 time return. That means if you were making 30 KA month, you were now making 300 KA month. People have been able to six times their pricing. You guys, it took me a second to say that because it's such a big deal, six times their pricing. What would that do to your business? What if it all comes down to copy? I believe it does. If you've hung around me for a while, you've heard me say, I think copy is one of the most important business assets we have.  I truly consider it an asset because it's replicating you out there in the world. It's having people have an experience of who you are while you are off doing something else, whether that's baking cookie with your kids or taking care of other clients or being on vacation when your copy is done well, and Kris gives us tons of tips in today's podcast episode of how to make it Done Well. When it's done well, you can go off and relax and know that the copy is working hard on your behalf. So I'm sure you're dying to hear all of her tips and tricks. Listen in, they're amazing, and if you've had questions about AI and how you should use it when it comes to creating content and copy, listen in because I asked her that question as well. So pop in those earphones and let's get to it.  You are listening to the Game On Girlfriend podcast where we remind you that this is not your practice life. This game is on, and we're here to help you play it. Personal and professional development expert Sarah Walton delivers a fresh new perspective on this thing called life through her thought provoking conversations behind the scenes, training, interviews, and inspirational episodes. Be ready to be inspired to laugh, cry, and even feel prepared to face some of life's toughest challenges. Here's your host, business mentor, author, speaker, and imperfect vegan. My mom, Sarah Walton, game on girlfriend.  Kris, welcome to the Game on Girlfriend podcast. Can we just jump into copywriting? I'm so excited to have you here.  Oh, this is going to be so much fun, but of course, before we jump in, can I just ask you, everybody's like, this is the question everybody wants to know is like, why is this what you do? What actually had you fall in love with supporting businesses with copywriting and teaching people how to do this? Well,  Wow. Oh, I could go on and on about how this all came to be, but I will tell you that fundamentally I've never been someone who's loved copy.  I always found it to be very challenging. I started out as a visual storyteller and even as a childhood, in hindsight, visual storytelling was my thing. Whether it was making fake trifold vacation brochures or whatever else I talked my friends into doing and eventually kind of turned that into my career, the visual storytelling piece through branding and website design, I kind of cut my teeth out at Nike and some other bigger companies that were incredible. I learned so much, but eventually I just have always had a heart for the solopreneur because that's who I relate to the most. I am wired as an entrepreneur, and I knew that my time in the corporate environment was not going to be my full career. I always knew I'd venture out on my own. Really?  That's so cool that you knew that. Not everybody knows that.  Oh my gosh. I remember driving on the freeway one day heading out to my cubicle, and I was like, every day I make this drive, I'm dying a little bit inside. I just had this very clear thought one morning and it was just like the truth for me. For me, it was true. There's nothing wrong with cubicle life or working for a larger company, but for me it was really little by little killing my soul. And so I started shortly thereafter that working with solopreneurs and helping them grow their businesses, and I got into website design because it was just what I love to do, making things beautiful, and this was back in the day when just having a beautiful website was all you needed to really thrive as a business. Those were  Good. Those were fun those days. It was like, I have a website, I'm done.  Totally. Yeah, exactly. Even having a website meant that you were killing it as a business.  But as the years went on, I'll never forget the landscape online changed. Everyone had a website and the websites that I was creating weren't as effective as they had been. I never really put a lot of energy into the copy side of things. I was all about the visuals and making the website beautiful, and I had this client, her name was Elise, and she came to me. She had a new business idea and she was really excited about it, and I'm like, yes, let's build you a site and get this out into the world. And she actually had a background in publishing, and so she was no stranger to copywriting, so she was going to do the copy, and then I was going to take that copy and make it look beautiful and launch her business. So we set the due date and it was like April 10th, and then she was going to get me the copy the week prior.  By the way, I'm laughing. I love that you still remember the date. That was a very important moment in your life. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to laugh, but I was like, no. Oh, this left an imprint on Kris. This one. Yeah,  It really did. It totally changed the trajectory of my business, and I'll tell you why. She called me on that morning of April 10th and she said, Kris, I don't have my website copy ready to give you. I'm a writer. I don't know why this is so hard. I've spent years and years writing professionally I should be able to do this. I'm completely stuck. I feel paralyzed. This is just like, I don't know what is going on, but I need your help. And I was like, gosh, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, you could hire a copywriter, maybe ask some old clients to give you feedback on what they loved about working with you. You could maybe ask a friend who's a writer. Anyway, she tried all that. She tried the copywriter, she tried all of that, and she came back to me again and just said, none of this feels like my voice.  And she was in this conundrum of, I can't write it myself, but it needs to feel like my voice. And when I try and outsource it, it doesn't feel right. You can't outsource your own voice. And so basically that situation sent me on a path of, I mean, the gift of Elise was that it sent me on the path of solving this problem. The hard truth was at that point, even my website wasn't doing the heavy lifting for me that it had been. I was really relying on referrals pretty much to keep my business afloat, which as we know, referrals are great, but it's not a way to sustainably run a business. You've got to have tools that are going to bring in your clients on autopilot and kind of working full-time as your sales employee. And so I went down this path. I flew across the country.  I dove deep on storytelling, and what I realized is that the visual storytelling that I had been doing was really powerful, but it was 20 times more powerful when it was paired with the written word and the written storytelling. And so I went to workshops, I read books. I just went all in. Like what happened with Elise will never ever happen again. Never. And so when I started applying the principles to my own website, things really started to change for my business really. I started getting booked out and I was getting on sales calls and people were already sold. They were like, I already want to work with you. How much I was started to be able to charge more for what I had been doing because the value was so much greater, the results I could promise were way beyond what had been happening previously.  Well, and it's so cool too because your website's actually doing what you say you're going to do for people. So it's literally, it's almost like a catalog. I could see why that just became so effective for you. Like, I'm going to help you write copy like this. And they're like, I want to get on the phone with you right now. You're like, that's what I'm going to do for you. I just think that's so great. What a great story that is. My gosh.  Well, the best part of this story was what happened after that, which was my clients started calling me and saying, you know what? I actually am charging six times more than I used to charge for the exact same service because we were communicating the value of it. And prior to that, that particular client had been on the verge of burnout. He was literally going to close the doors of his business. He was trying to find clients not charging enough. That really turned around for him. Other clients were revenue-wise, making 300% more than they ever had. They were getting bucked out. It was just everything started to shift for them, which was the best part of the whole thing. So yeah, that's when I just realized that the visual story paired with the written story is the superpower. And even today, even in 2023, most people don't have both.  They go all in on the written part and the design is kind of, eh, okay, maybe done from a template, nothing wrong with a template, or they pick a beautiful template and go down that road and kind of just follow the template's guidance around what copy should go where. Oh, the Squarespace is telling me to put a paragraph here, so I'm going to just plug one in. So all that to say, even now, most people are only doing half of that. And when you do both beautiful design, basically when you have a visual story that's bringing to life your written story, it's like the one two punch that will catapult you way above everybody else in your industry.  Yeah, I could totally see that. And I think, I know everybody hates testing always. People are like, what's up with your abundance academy, Sarah? I'm like, I teach a lot of data. And they're like, what? And it's because people don't want to go in and say, but the paragraph, just because Squarespace told me to put the paragraph here, that doesn't mean that's where the human eye actually goes. And it doesn't mean that's where that paragraph should be for the visual part of the story that needs the copy backing it. And it's really challenging for us. I think as business owners, we're doing 85 9000000.4 things, that's an exact number, and we're running around doing all this, and then someone comes in and says, yeah, but does the copy work better if it's on the left or the right? And you're like, I don't know. But as you're saying to the pricing and to the amount of people coming ready to purchase, it can make a profound difference  Night and day, night and day. And the thing about the builders, if you're going to save money and use a builder, I'm a huge proponent of it. Squarespace, they do have beautiful templates. They do encourage you to keep things really clean and simple as do a lot of other cloud-based builders out there, but just keep in your mind that they are in the business of brochure websites, which is really just a beautiful site that isn't necessarily effective. And so you've got to be the one in charge of making sure it's effective because they're not going to do that for you.  That's so true. It's so true. And we just want to get it done. I mean, can we just be honest completely just so long. It's like,  Yeah, let's just slap it up there. Let's put up the obligatory website. People got to find me somehow. And then we get it up and maybe in an evening or a couple of days, and then it's like, oh, phew, it's done. It's up. But then not a lot happens after that, which  Is a bummer. Look, I've done it. I know I've done it where I'll spend more time on the design of a page with a designer and then I'm like, yeah, I just used the copy from last time and I love copy, copy. I think I'm so happy you're here, Kris, because I think copy is one of the most important things we can have in a business. And I refer to our sales pages as business assets. I mean, here you and I are talking, right? And our sales pages are out there working for us. That's an asset. It's something that can replace itself in value, and it's so tempting to just throw it up there and be like, Jack, okay, what's next? Because we're managing so much,  So true, so true. Your sales page really act. You should really think of it as it can be your top sales employee. That's what I like to think of it as. Just working for you 24 7 for free for  Doesn't need to pee or eat. It's amazing. Amazing. That's very true. I mean, I guess, yeah, how else could we look at it? I guess that's right. It isn't it an actual employee of the business. I love that idea. Actually. The more we think about it, the more I like it. So in light of this and in what we as entrepreneurs, those of us who are super duper scrappy, running around doing all the things, what are the biggest mistakes we make when it comes to copywriting?  The biggest mistake we make is making ourselves the hero of our own story. And so I totally get this approach. We think this is my website. I need to talk about myself, people want to know about me, so I'm going to write, I'm going to kind of drum up, and this is what other people are doing online. You look at other people's websites, okay, they're talking about themselves. I'm going to talk about how I got into business and oh, this other person's talking about their Labradoodle and some other things. Maybe I'll layer in some fun facts about myself here and also add in the experience I have. I want people to know  Legit, that I know what I'm doing. But what we don't realize when we're doing that is that we're making ourselves the hero of our own story. And what I want to encourage your listeners to do is really invite your potential clients into a story with you. And the reality is there is only room for one hero in every story. And when you're the hero of your own story, you kick your potential client out of the story. You want to invite them in where they play the hero and you play the guide. So an example of this in movie language is like Karate Kid is the hero. Mr. Miyagi is the guide, or Luke Skywalker is the hero, and Yoda is the guide because the guide is actually the strongest character in the story, and the hero's the weakest because they have the problem, and we don't know if they're going to overcome it or not, but you are the guide because you know how to solve their problem.  You've been there, done that. You can show up with empathy and confidence and guide them to solve the problem that they have. Why are they hiring you? So the formula for every story ever told is a hero has a problem. That's your client, okay? Hero has a problem they don't know how to solve. They go searching around whether they're asking their friends or they're online asking Google, they're looking for a solution to their problem. So then meet. So the hero has a problem. The hero meets a guide that has a solution that allows them to experience success. That is in a nutshell, every movie you ever watch, every book you ever read, that's how it goes. Now, there's all kinds of creativity that can happen within there, but that is the structure of a compelling story.  My gosh, I'm literally racking my brain right now and I'm like, oh my God, Cinderella's fairy godmother. I'm going through all the things and I'm like a huge Marvel movie lover. So I'm going through, I'm like, holy. And there's that one. Oh my God. And there's another one. You totally, I think you just blew my mind. That is so cool. I've never heard it talked about quite like that. I mean, I know there's a formula to every story, but the idea of hero has problem, hero is stuck, hero gets guide. Guide offers success, happy ending mean, or whatever version of happy ending that is, right? Yeah, it's really interesting. So we as the business owner, this is so awesome, Kris, because I always say to people, what problem do you solve? That's my first question. Anybody comes to me with any business? I'm like, what problem do you solve? And sometimes people look at me like I'm crazy, and then they're like, oh, I help people do this, this, and this. And yes, that's right. But then positioning that as the guide through the problem that you client, customer, amazing human who landed on my website are the hero of this is so awesome, Kris, that's really helpful.  And what I love about that question that you ask is that what you're doing is helping them articulate the problems that their heroes are struggling with. And when we articulate their problem on our website, when we really can articulate that clearly, they automatically think we're the best ones to solve it.  Yeah. Doing that as establishes resonance, it develops trust. It helps them feel seen and heard when you're just literally naming the problems that they have.  I like that so much better than calling it a bunch of pain points. Boy, do I hate that word. I hate calling something a pain. Yeah. Literally it shackles up, right? I'm like, Ew. But that idea that instead, let's look at the problems you're up against and let's talk about how we're going to break through them. It's like a completely different conversation. Then I know you think you suck. Who wants to hear that? That's not fun. But rather you're feeling stuck in this area. Let's get you through this. This is so helpful, Kris. Oh my gosh. Well, okay, so let's say here I am human business owner, help me and I sit down and I am slogging through a sales page with all of the copy and all of the things and all of the pictures. It's got to be pretty. Now there's copy, and I just want to put my head into my desk and pretend I don't have a website at all. What does somebody do when they're in that situation, Kris? What is the best thing for someone to do?  Yeah. Well, the first thing I want to share is I want to let everybody off the hook because that struggle is real. It is so hard to write your own copy. And there are reasons behind why that is. It's not just because you're defective. There's nothing wrong with you. This is true for everybody. Every single business owner that I've ever met struggles with this, and I really, I've never met anyone who's like, no, I just sat down and I just wrote it and it only took me an hour, blah, blah, blah. Never heard that in 20 years of business,  There's a thing called the bottle effect, and when you are too close to your own business, it is being inside the bottle and trying to read the label of that bottle that can only be read from the outside.  And that's where we are as business owners. We're so close to our own business and we're trying to write about it, but we're in the bottle. So we need outside perspective in order to be able to clearly articulate what we do in a compelling way. The other thing that goes on during this phase of trying to write your own copy is the curse of knowledge. And that just means you've been in your industry long enough, or if you're in this business, you've obviously invested time into learning about what you do. You're an expert whether you consider yourself an expert or not. And when we have the curse of knowledge, it just means that we've forgotten what it's like to not know what we know.  Preton it. Kris. I think that is so true. I've never heard the bottle theory before. I love that, but I think that is one of our biggest challenges.  So I just want to let everybody off the hook around that it's such a normal experience and it's real. And so I think the perspective is really, really critical. It's hard to kind of shoehorn a template into a templated solution into what you're doing because there's so many nuances of the work that you do. So I'm not like anti templates. I just think that they often don't save us time. I think really what's timeless and what's really effective are the components of story and learning how to do that.  Oh, that's really good. I think that's really helpful. So is if someone's going through the bottle moment, they're in that moment, what's one of the best things they can do right then to help sort of pop something for themselves?  The best way to just break through the paralysis of trying to write your own copy is to jot down the problems or the struggles that your customers are facing when you get on a call with them. In their words, how do they share with you that they're struggling or stuck? Depends on what you do. But if you're, let's just say you are, throw out a profession, a hairdresser.  Let's just say you're a hairdresser. So the problems that they might struggle with is that their hair feels out of alignment with who they are as the person on the inside, and you really want to show up congruently. That might be one thing. It might be that maybe one of their problems is they need to come in frequently and it's just too expensive. One of their problems might be that their hair color, they feel like it washes them out or something like that. It's not enhancing their visual appearance. So the thing here you want to do is hone in on what they're telling you they're struggling with. Are they struggling with styling? It looks great when they leave this salon, but how do they maintain that they can't? So there's all kinds of things, but I would say just brain dump those onto a document and then every story begins with a problem that the hero's having. And then start your copy that way. That's the best way to let people know that you care about their problem, you understand their problem. When we begin a story or anything, we write with a problem. Our brains cannot help but engage. We are wired for a story. So that is just a little secret tip to just get the juices flowing. So you start with the problem and you might say, are you struggling with the fact that your hair is kind of making you feel drab?  And then you want to position your service as the solution to that problem. So at such and such salon, we specialize in blondes who want to become blonde,  Or whatever. We specialize, we work with women to create alignment between who you are on the inside with how you show up externally to the world. And then we want to always incorporate the message around what's in it for them. As humans, we're just scanning the world. What's in it for me? What's in it for me? How can I benefit from this? So we want to spoonfeed them that. So after you've kind of positioned your solution, however you solve that problem, and then you want to say so that you can feel your most beautiful self so that you can show up with total confidence and have more fun, whatever it might be. But you always want to be weaving in those three things, the problem that they're struggling with, articulating that really clearly positioning your service as the solution to their problem, and then weaving in the benefits of what happens for them in their life when that problem is solved.  Yeah, yeah. So good. So good. Putting them in the moment of success. I love that. Okay, so there's one, there's like the elephant in the room at the moment. As you and I are talking, I feel like I'm living in the matrix because I keep seeing Morpheus say, oh, that was the day we celebrated the birth of ai. And I'm like, are we doing that? So when it comes to copy, he said total fear in her eyes when it comes to copy. I would love to know Kris, and listen, this is the wild west right now. I at this point expect no people to have any answers to anything right now. I don't think we know. Even though my son who's 16 thinks he knows everything about ai, I want to know what do you think is happening right now with people being able to say, hi, write me a sales page, Mr. AI thing, and it does. What are we going to do with that?  Well, I think no matter what, you can't outsource your own voice. You really can't. And there are nuances about what you do that make you unique. That's why people hire you instead of your competitor. So I think AI is an incredibly powerful tool, and I do think you can use it to explore ideas for sure. Here are the problems that my customers struggle with. Can you think of 10 more problems? And then AI can generate even more that maybe you didn't even think of. So it can help you that way. I don't think it's really dialed into just plug and play a sales page, but I think if you know what to ask it, it can help kind of round out or add to some of the initial ideas that you have. I think of ai, kind of like a really great, a professional race horse. Basically, it's been groomed, but you don't want to run wild. You don't want it to run wild to win the race. It needs a jockey. And so when we know how to ride our own copy, when we know the power of a story and how to be the jockey for AI and tell it exactly what you want it to do, I think that can really be a great way to use it.  Very cool. That can change the game. I could absolutely see that, that that's what changes it. So let's use it maybe for speed. I think it was Gary V. I heard say that the other day. He's like, all of our social media was written in an hour for the month, but we went through it and we cleaned it up and that kind of a thing. But I love that you called it a race horse, but it sounds like that's really how brilliant people are using it is to get maybe some of the ideas out to get the backbone out there, but then to assume that it's done at that point would probably be folly.  Yeah. Yeah. I think that AI is really great for generating content, but it's not as strategic thinker. It's different than copy. Copy versus content. Content is like you're generating, you want to generate lots of it. It would be great for a blog post. You still need to go in and edit it, but it can generate content very quickly, but it doesn't necessarily create copy for you.  Like heartfelt storytelling, touching, moving, getting people to pick up the phone copy,  Right? I mean, what you really want is your website to be representative of you. So when people get on the phone with you, there's a seamless relationship. They get on the phone with you and they feel like they've already met you because the way that your website is written feels like you and nobody else talks. Your voice is like nobody else is in the world and you really, the most effective websites knowhow show up in the way where it's like your voice on the page versus an AI generated thing.  Yeah, it's just never going to quite be the same, is it? It could get close, but it's still not that same. And I think sales copy specifically I feel really has to touch people. It really has to move them. They have to feel very seen. That's why I love you talking about the hero piece, and I don't know that a computer can do that. Thank you, Morpheus. Alright, so listen, I believe for everybody listening today, Kris, you have a special gift for our listeners today.  Yes, I do. If you're interested in learning more about storytelling, I have a freebie called write compelling copy in five minutes flat, and it'll delve a little bit deeper into the components of story that I talked about today that's completely free. And then I also have my main offer, which is StoryBrand website copy that sells in two and a half hours flat.  That is a done for you, you do not have to write the copy. I pull out the gold from inside your brain and then I write your copy for you and then we hop on a 90 minute collaboration call and can go through the copy together, but allows you to kind of check that off your list and everything, all those things. All the things can be found at my website, which is red door designs.com. That's red, R-E-D-D-O-O-R designs, D-E-S-I-G-N s.com.  Love it. Love it. You guys, we are going to link to that underneath this video if you're watching it on YouTube. And for those of you listening, tap onto your show notes and you will find the links there. Kris, thank you so much for spending time with us today. This has just been such a joy, one of my all time favorite copy conversations. Copy, copy, copy. Love it. Love it. Kris, thank you again.  Thank you so much for listening in today. I really hope you enjoyed the episode, and I have just a quick favor. If you enjoyed this podcast, can you give us a review and a quick rating that would mean so much and we never know who's watching, who might really need to hear something from this podcast? In addition, if you're a selfie person, go ahead and snap a quick pick of you listening to this podcast. Give us a little love by using hashtag Game on Girlfriend. I promise I look. I will find you, I'll comment, I'll share, and I'll get to know you too. If you'd like to know a little bit more about who I am and what I do, head on over to sarah walton.com. Again, sarah walton.com and check it out. Until next time, remember, this is not your practice life. The game is on. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/masterful-coach-podcast-part-2 ### Title: StoryBranding to Clarify Your Program, with Molly Claire and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5051119 ### Content: ## StoryBranding to Clarify Your Program ## The Masterful Coach Podcast, with Molly Claire and Kris Jones StoryBranding to Clarify Your Program, with Molly Claire and Kris Jones **Do you know your website or sales page isn't working…** I recently had a chat with Molly Claire on her podcast, and let me tell you, it was eye-opening!  This is gold if you want to level up, get more clients, and work more efficiently. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? How to turn what you're good at into a program or offer people can't resist. ? The secret sauce that draws in the right kind of clients. ? Tips on using your own story to make your offer stand out. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Intro: Welcome to the masterful coach podcast with Molly Claire. If you’re a coach who’s ready to impact more lives, make more money and create a life you love, you’re in exactly the right place. Get the support you deserve as a female entrepreneur. Master your coaching skills, grow your ideal business, and honor your priorities in your personal life. Are you in? Let’s get started with your host, best selling author and master life and business coach, Molly Claire. Molly Claire: All right, coaches. I am so excited about this collaboration today. I have back on the podcast today, Kris Jones. Say hello, Kris. Kris Jones: Hello. Hello. I’m so thrilled to be here today. Molly Claire: This is so fun. So Kris and I are doing a bit of a collaboration and we’re going to talk to you about why that is and what it means for you, especially as we’re starting the new year. But before we get into that, I think we should tell them about how this even came about, right? Molly Claire: So Kris, just as a refresher, tell everyone who you are and what you do. Kris Jones: My name is Kris Jones and I am a story brand guide. I am crazy about storytelling, but I love to do it in a way for coaches and self employed service providers to help them tell their story in a way that turns their website or their sales page into their award winning top sales employee. I want you to have a full time, 24/7 sales employee that is working for you to basically turn leads into paying clients. So you can focus on just doing that coaching work that you love to do. Molly Claire: Oh my gosh. And I’ll just say, when we did our work together where you helped me with my sales page, which I’ll talk more about, it was so fun to see it come together. And I know you’ve said this, Kris, that there’s something really powerful about having a simple sales page that’s so good and so specific and so direct and it’s almost like such a natural easy read for the reader that there’s something about it that just gives you a lot of confidence and excitement to share your sales page. Kris Jones: Exactly. I mean, I think so many coaches cringe when someone’s like, “Oh, how can I find you online?” Or, “What’s your website?” Right? And then you just kind of go, “Oh, well, I haven’t updated in a long time. Like, don’t go there. Just email me.” But there’s something really different when you can really proudly send people to your page and know that it’s actually going to convert and work for you. And the other thing I want to add on to that is, not only do you become more confident about your online presence, and your website, and sales page, as a tool to sell for you, but the viewer – your leads – also feel really wonderful when they’re navigating through this sales page. They feel seen. They feel heard. They feel like they’re not alone in their struggle. They feel like you’re the best one to be solving this problem for them. And as their questions arise at the same time you’re presenting the answers to those questions. And a lot of this happens subconsciously. All they know is that they feel a deep sense of connection to you and that they feel really held as they navigate through your page because you’re really telling a story and you’re tapping into those parts of the brain that really help build trust. And not only are you excited about the program that you’re selling, but they’re really excited to work with you. So when you get on a sales call with them, you hop on a sales call, you’re actually not selling. The page has done that work for you. They’re just essentially like, “I’m ready to join. What do I do?” Molly Claire: Yes, the heavy lifting is already done. Yes. I remember when this last year we had, in our community, I had brought Jodi Moore – she’s a friend and colleague and coach – she said something that stood out to me so much that, having to work hard on a sales call is the price you pay for not having good marketing in place. And I think about that sales page as part of that good marketing, right? Warming people up. And it’s true. Then it’s just a matter of sealing the deal that it’s for them. And they can see that. Kris Jones: I mean, it really becomes more like you’re interviewing them to make sure they’re the right fit for your program, rather than this kind of desperation of like, “Please join, please join.” Molly Claire: Okay. So now you know who Kris is. And again, we did an interview a while back. And so of course you can go back and watch that too. So this is how Kris and I came together. I actually scheduled Kris to be on my podcast before I had actually worked with you, right? And we had someone in common, Christine, that I knew that you knew. So I interview Kris, and then, within a couple days, I was on a consult with Kris. I was like, “Hey, you know, I wonder if you could help me with my copy.” And what’s so cool about my experience working with Kris is that she was helping me to create a sales page. I don’t even remember for which program it was, but as I started working through it, it actually brought to light for me this kind of super skill that I have and use in my programs, in my business, where I help coaches create a killer program, right? And so it had always been there in the work and I had done it with my clients, but I just never led with it. And so what’s so cool is that as Kris and I were working together, it kind of birthed that entry point of that offer where I now have worked with two groups, helping them to create that killer program. So anyway, fast forward a little bit. Here we are. I help coaches create a killer program. Kris, of course, has this knack for – I don’t know if knack’s the right word even, like a gift – helping you to bring your offer, bring it to life, with the reader on that page. So we decided to come together and we’re going to tell you more about that. But here we are. We want to talk with you about the power of a program, what that means for you as a coach and for your clients, how to articulate it and how the right sales page is everything when it comes to moving your business forward. Kris Jones: Yeah. And I’d love to add to that. Most coaches know they need to have a program of some sort, and creating a program really isn’t the hard part. It’s creating a program that can promise results, that you can confidently really know that your clients are gonna get the results that you’re promising. And creating a program like that is a whole different arena than just creating a program. Molly Claire: Yep, that’s so true. That’s right. It’s like the program needs to be clear to you as a coach, clear to the client, and actually provide the results, right? Yeah. Kris Jones: And when you do that, when you promise and you know with confidence that you can promise the results and get them the results, which ultimately, in my opinion, is about solving a problem for them. When you solve a really important problem, you can charge a premium for that. And so my job is really helping support you and actually writing that copy for you so you don’t have to write it yourself and really feeling like your clients are like, this is a no brainer. I’m going to fork over whatever you want to charge. And then you’re on the receiving end of that feeling like, I am really feeling well compensated for my expertise. Molly Claire: And just really quick. So on this podcast, as we talk through this, Kris and I are going to talk about these important elements that we teach and that we offer, and we’re also offering a webinar. So we’re going to tell you more about that. But if either you’re insecure about your program, or you don’t have one, and you’ve been putting it off, this is the place for you to be. If you know what you do with your clients, but you don’t know how to articulate it in your offer, this is a place for you to be. And for sure, if you’re intrigued by this idea of story brand copy, this is definitely the place, because Kris is amazing at it. Kris Jones: Yes. And if you feel stuck with a sales page that is not doing the job of selling for you, this is also the right place for you to be. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. But I wanted to mention something, Kris, that you said about that premium price. When a program is solid, when it works, when you’re confident that it works and you tie it together in that nice pretty bow on the sales page, it does mean a premium price. And it was so interesting. One of my clients that I was working with on designing her killer program, I had been working with her in her business and helping her. We’d been working on her coaching skills and so many things. And she had her price that she charged. And then when we did that killer program work, where she really articulated so clearly what she was doing, and how she articulated it, and the difference it made for her clients, it was so interesting that when I asked her, her price point, it was more than twice what her price point had been before. Because she was so clear and solid that she wasn’t just offering coaching, but she was really offering a result that these people wanted. So it does make such a difference. Kris Jones: It really does. I worked with a client not long ago who was on the verge of burnout, like, really ready to shut the doors. And we revamped his language, and his offerings. And he sent me an email a couple months later and he said, “I’m actually charging six times more for the exact same service.” Kris Jones: And he said, “Not only that, I’m attracting a different type of client. The type of client that’s not draining me. A type of client that respects my boundaries.” And it was just such a different type of exchange. When you charge a premium, you actually are working with a different caliber of client Okay, so let’s break this down a little bit. Let’s first talk about – well, we’ve already kind of started talking about it, right? But the idea of a program specifically. So I know some coaches really are taught in their certification, or I guess, given a program to walk people through. But a lot of coaches, especially that are in my space, that are attracted here, those of you listening, many of you learn coaching skills. But then it’s up to you to really define and design how you deliver the coaching and what your niche is and all of that. And so I want to just speak to the power of a good program. Because now, more than ever, there are coaches and consultants and courses like everywhere, right? It’s so much more common. And I think that two things, I think this is all the more reason for you to make sure that your program is clear and unique and stands out. And number two, all the more reason to make sure that it is effective and giving results, right? Because I just am convinced that we can have good sales and marketing can get people in the door. But I think the businesses that are going to stand and stand the test of time, especially in any economy are those that lead with service. Wherever you are on the spectrum of like, no program to the best program ever, I think this is a good time to evaluate where you are and think about how much more confident you’ll be as you market, as you sell, and as you set your prices, when you’re more clear and confident that you can deliver that results. Kris Jones: Right. I think one of the mistakes that I see often – well, there are a few, but the first one – is really making ourselves the hero of our own story. And I totally understand why this happens. We’re like, this is our website. We should talk about ourself. So that happens. Or the other thing that happens is we feel like we need to write our own copy. This is our business. We don’t have a big budget. And so we really struggle to write our own copy. And it’s not that the copy isn’t good, but it needs to be really strategic in order to stand out. And so what happens is a lot of coaches will feel torn between, “Should I write my own copy? Should I invest in a copywriter? But if I invest in a copywriter, how are they going to know the nuances of me, my offer, my clientele? Or should I just write it myself and invest in a designer? Cause I know that’s going to have to happen too.” And so often we feel torn between like those options. And I’m a big believer that the way to kind of bubble up to the top of a crowded market, and bubble up to the top of the internet is to really have clear words, strategic storytelling that converts combined with design that brings that story to life. And that’s why I love the work that I do, because for a really affordable price, I ensure that you have both of those things dialed in. Now, both of those things would not be effective if the program itself weren’t really effective. So you absolutely have to have that component done first. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And I’ve seen the difference it makes. And I’ll just back up for a minute and just say, I know that I’ve seen a lot of coaches struggle with designing a program because they’re so afraid of that niche commitment. And one of the things that I do, in fact, in Create Your Killer program, the program, it’s like, you can have a very super specific niche, but you can also have a more general niche and still carve out a really specific program. So I think it’s important to remember that if anyone’s feeling like, “Well, I wouldn’t, you know, be ready for making a program, cause I don’t have my niche dialed in…” By creating that specific program, I find it actually helps coaches to refine that and move forward. Molly Claire: And just as Kris was talking, you guys, I have to tell you, I remember when I was working with you, Kris, a couple of things. One thing that I loved about working with you is that, as I filled out the questions from you, you put the copy together and then we talked through it on the call together. And so I definitely have had that hiccup with, I’ve typically written my copy for my business almost the entire time I’ve been in business. And so for me, whenever other people have tried to write in my voice, my style, they haven’t quite hit the mark. And this was like that magical combination because I feel like enough came from me. Then you put the expert touch on it, and then we just shifted it a little bit. And it does make a big difference. And I remember when I first saw the copy in the page, I just felt so much lighter. And, keep in mind, I’m not new to this or anything, right? I mean, I’ve been in business almost a decade and it’s a great experience. It’s a great feeling when you have that copy clear and- Kris Jones: Yes, you know, I’ve been doing this now 20 years and so that is how and why I’ve been able to create the process that I’ve created. I don’t know anyone else who’s doing it, doing the work the way that I do. Because I’ve watched too many clients or too many coaches essentially get to the point where they’re really busy and they’re like, “Okay, it’s worth it. I’m going to hire a copywriter. Here’s thousands of thousands of dollars.” And then what ends up happening is they’re busy. They’re ready to hand it over. But when a copywriter goes out and works in a silo, you can’t outsource your own voice. You just can’t. So what a lot of clients that I’ve had come to me after going through that experience and they’ll say, “I outsourced my copy and it came back to me. And then essentially had a bunch of revisions. There was back and forth and back and forth and back and eventually I just pretty much felt like I wrote it myself. And it took longer than if I had written it by myself, right? And way more expensive.” And so that’s really the key of that. You know, I’m able to pull that beautiful gold of out from inside your brain. The story is inside of you and I can identify. I can ask specific questions that can pull out that story inside of you that allows me to write your copy. So you are not stuck staring at a blinking cursor on a Google doc. Because we’ve all been there. It feels a little bit like torture. And then, I think, one of the most fun and powerful parts of the process is what you’re talking about that step three, where I’ve written your copy for you, but we get on that 90 minute collaboration call and we really make sure it is completely aligned with your voice and we do a little bit of fine tuning and tweaking to make sure it’s dialed in for your particular program and the nuances of your clientele. And by the end of that 90 minute call, it’s done. I mean, the whole process took you under two and a half hours, Molly. I mean, of course it takes me and my team longer than that because we’re really, you know, we’re into every detail of it. But the coaches I work with are just, they’re juggling, their plates are full and they’ve got too many balls in the air. So the last thing they have time for is either writing their own copy, or learning how to write strategic copy. Who wants to do that? Molly Claire: Not to mention that all the rules are always changing, you know, online marketing. And it’s just like, how do you keep up? How do you have the best practices? And I have, you know, 50 skills to learn this week alone or whatever it is. Right? Kris Jones: Right? Right. Yeah. And then, after that, you’re not left to your own devices to just- you’ve got the copy, you know it’s going to work for you. You’re excited to get it onto your website. And then I get to hold your hand throughout and make sure and guide you with the design of the page as well. So you’re not feeling like, “Oh gosh, now I’ve got to yet hire somebody else to design it if you don’t want to.” Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And as all of you are listening, of course, here we are saying it’s important to have a program. It’s important to be able to articulate it. It’s important to have a good sales page. I think all of this is true. And if any of you are having that sense of I’m not ready yet, stay with us here. Because one of the things that Kris and I both do and both speak to as we teach – and I don’t know how much we’ll talk about this here. We’ll for sure be talking about it on the live webinar. But really, it’s important not only to get these steps done, but to understand how to shift and tweak and adjust once you have this work. Because I think, I do think it’s a mistake when people wait, they think, “Oh, I’ll wait to do it all. So I have all of this experience.” But then guess what? You’re not building your business and you just get burned out. Right, right, right. Kris Jones: Yeah. I mean, your business is kind of like your baby, right? It grows and evolves as you grow and evolve. Your business grows and evolves. Your offerings grow and evolve. So rather than feeling like you have to start over every time you make a little pivot or you evolve to a new level of your business, you’ve got those tools with you. You’ve got that skill set to just make some refinements and you know how to do that. Molly Claire: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s what I think is so fun. And this is part of the reason why Kris and I wanted to collaborate on this is it’s like in Create Your Killer program. I’m giving my clients the actual steps. They are actually creating it. And so I’m not doing it for them, but I am clearly guiding them and making it so easy. It’s like a plug and play for them. And I’m teaching them how to design that. And so literally, in fact, just today, I have a client who, she’s toward the end of the program, and she actually said, “You know what? I want to move over and do this niche.” And it’s a different niche and it’s not a problem. Because all the work we’ve done applies here and it’s just a tiny shift. And Kris’s work, actually it does the same thing, right? Because you and I worked on one sales page and we created that. And I so easily know how to shift and tweak for the next offer, or the next version of my offer. Which is pretty cool, to think you have help actually getting it done and having the tools to do it yourself going forward. Kris Jones: Right, right. I mean, the goal, in my opinion, it’s probably not the best business model, right? But the goal is to really teach you how to fish so you aren’t dependent on us forever more. Of course, we’re always here to support you, but I really want to empower my clients, and I know you do too, to really thrive and not be dependent on forking over money every time your business changes or evolves. Molly Claire: Yes, that’s right. We know there’s plenty of stuff we can spend money on in our business, without repaying for the same service over and over again as it changes. So, okay. So a program, right? A clear program. And then one of the things that I focus on in Create a Killer Program, and this is almost like where it crosses over into the work that Kris does is, as you create your program in your business, what you’re actually doing with your clients and what’s actually getting the results, you have to also be clear and articulate what that offer looks like. The words you actually use to describe to your clients. How you help them. And so, we do some of that. And then of course, Kris, like that’s where you kind of run with clients, to not only use the right words, but use them in the right format, in that story format Kris Jones: Right. I’m a big believer in story brand. There’s a book called Building a Story Brand and I got to work with Donald Miller and be mentored by him prior to him even writing the book. Yeah, it’s really, I feel very very blessed. And my passion is really helping you tell your story in a way that just completely resonates with your ideal client, clients, or potential clients and really having them realize, this is a no brainer for me to hire you. And one of the things that I didn’t expect when I created my program, my offer, is what I’d hear from my clients after the fact. And one of the main things that I find most delightful is people tell me, “I thought I was hiring you to write my sales page copy, but actually what you’ve created, of course, a sales page copy, but it’s also my brand, and my offer copy Bible.” And so anytime you ever need to create copy related to your program or your offerings, you go back to the document that I wrote for you and you copy and paste from that document. So you’re never having to sit there frustrated, trying to figure out, what am I going to post on Instagram? What am I going to write in this email sequence? It’s all there for you. Your story doesn’t change. Your story is really the foundational work of your business. And so, having a document that you can continually go back to, so you never have to start from scratch, is gold. Molly Claire: Oh my gosh, it really is. And I know I can just say for myself, I’m like, I mean, I’ve been writing my own copy for a long time. But that sales page was, it just felt so good, so easy, so light. And of course, I quickly sent some people your way too. Some of my clients I, because I was talking with them during the process of deciding, should I do this? Kris Jones: I think that’s part of why we decided to collaborate. Because you’re like, “Okay, I’ve got somebody all set up with their program and now they need you.” And we decided, okay, why don’t we just merge this together and create an experience that’s really comprehensive, but also easy and fun and supported. Molly Claire: Yes. Yes. I want to talk just for a minute about what we’re going to be doing in the webinar. Because, so as you’re hearing this, this is like the week of American Thanksgiving coming up, and this coming Friday, we’re going to be putting out our, Green Friday special, where we’re going to be inviting all of you to the webinar. And you actually can register for the webinar from the show notes here on this podcast ahead of time. But we’re going to be offering a webinar, The Program Powerhouse, where Kris and I will both be there. And we’re going to be talking about this elite framework that I teach where it is a simple process, step by step, of moving forward to create a program. We’re going to be talking – not we, I can’t say we – Kris will be talking about story brand copywriting specifically. And Kris, I know we talked about you actually showing maybe a live example on that webinar, right? Where you’re giving feedback on like in real time. Kris Jones: On the webinar, I would love to pick somebody from the audience and pull up their website and give them really valuable feedback on what kind of story they’re telling. Where are the holes in their boat that need to be plugged, and how I would apply the StoryBrand framework to their current page. So that’s going to happen absolutely for at least one, maybe more, people who attend the webinar. Molly Claire: Yeah, I think that’s gonna be great. And one of the things that this reminds me of is, an issue I hear a lot from coaches where either they, and this kind of goes back to what you were saying about thinking that we need to be the hero of our story, is that coaches think that they have to have gone through the exact same thing their clients have in order to be qualified to help them, which is not true. And they think that if that is the case, because sometimes that is the case, right, where they’ve gone through that same thing. And then they think, though, that they have to have mastered it or be perfect at it. And I think this story brand framework, and Kris can correct me if I’m wrong, or adjust what I’m saying here is, but I think that this teaches you how, whether you went through what you help your clients with or not, there’s actually a very skilled way as to how you present yourself as the guide for your client on that journey. And so it kind of addresses, I think, what often is the root of imposter syndrome for people. Kris Jones: I mean, here’s a really new way to think about talking about your business, right? You’re not the hero of your own story. Just quickly, every story begins with a hero who has a problem they don’t know how to solve. And eventually they meet a guide who can help them solve that problem. So, what happens is, your story is actually not about you. And hopefully that really lets you off the hook from that feeling of like, “What? I don’t know how to talk about myself. What am I going to write?” Your story is not about you. It’s about inviting your hero, your heroes, your potential client, your potential coachee, right? Inviting them into a narrative with you. A narrative where they are the hero and you are the guide. And so that can really just let you off the hook around trying to figure out what to say. It’s really… We do talk about, you absolutely are the guide. You play the character of the guide in this story. But we really talk about you as it relates to them. So a lot of coaches and a lot of, I mean, I would say 99 percent of the internet, they are talking about themselves. I don’t care if you’re a big corporation or a solopreneur, most people are making themselves the hero of their own story by talking about themselves. And so what I want to do is shift that a little bit. It’s a nuanced shift, but it makes all the difference. And it shows your potential clients that you care more about them and solving their problem than you care about yourself. Molly Claire: Yeah. I mean, I think we could talk about that in so many ways. But I mean, that’s something even with coaches, right? When my coaches are getting in their head and I’m helping them to improve their skills. It’s like, it’s always about how are we making this about the client always. Not about us. Molly Claire: Okay. So the webinar, for those of you that are coming, we’re going to talk about that elite framework, the story brand copywriting. And then we’re talking about how this can make 2024 your best income year yet. And I was thinking about this, I’m like, okay, can we really promise this? And I’m going to say yes, because here’s the thing. Obviously we can’t do the work, for those who come to this webinar. However, think about this, all of you, if you have a clear program, you are confident in your program that it can provide results, and you know the words to use to articulate to people what you do. And then add on with that a sales copy that allows your potential client to feel seen and heard, and to actually feel this sense of, this is exactly what I need where they’re already sold before they get on the call, that’s like, a pretty magical recipe, if you ask me, to move a business forward. Kris Jones: It really is. And when I show you how to apply the StoryBrand framework to a real life example on the webinar, you’re going to be able to take that wisdom and insight and apply it to your own page. So that’s hugely valuable. We learn so much. I mean, as coaches, know this already, right? We learn so much when we watch others being coached and there’s huge value that comes from that. So I’m going to show you exactly how to master the art of story brand. And you’re never going to talk about your business in the same way again. Molly Claire: It’s so cool. I just, I love it. And I’ve already, I know for me, already the sales page that we did, I’ve tweaked it for some other things. And I know those of you listening to this, you can see an example of what Kris’s work looks like, obviously on your site, right? Reddoordesigns.com. And if you go to mollyclaire.com, and click on Create Your Killer Program. That is the copy that we created from the story brand framework. So it’s pretty cool to see an action. Yeah. Kris Jones: It’s incredibly powerful. You know, like I said, I’ve been doing this work for 20 years. And in 2017, I dove into storytelling. I flew across the country to learn about story. I delved deep into it for many, many, many, many months and began implementing the framework. I’ve never seen anything work so effectively to create change for my clients. I mean, my clients, my goal is to help them grow their business to help them make more money, to help them work less and earn more. And time and time and time again, I’ve watched this framework work, and I think it’s because it isn’t a trendy, fleeting solution. Story is timeless. And it really does tap into that back part of our animal brain and helps us feel things that other marketing tactics just can’t touch. Molly Claire: Yes, yes. Oh, I love that. And it goes back to, you know, the other point I was making about a business, a service that actually works. That’s timeless too, right? The businesses that are lasting and that succeed are led with quality service. And then that idea of the story that connects with people and brings them in, it’s just. See, this is why we’re collaborating on this. It’s so cool. Okay. Kris Jones: We’d be hugging right now if we were in the same room. I know. Molly Claire: Okay. So listen, coaches, hopefully you’ve already loved the things that we have talked about here. I’m hoping that you feel more excited about your program, the year to come, how you can actually have copy that feels amazing to you. So hopefully you’re already feeling inspired. And in the show notes here, and you can also go to mollyclaire.com and find it, you can register for the Program Powerhouse Webinar. It is going to be first week of December. Kris and I will both be there. I’m going to bring my program tips and guidance. Kris is going to bring her story brand copywriting brilliance and do some examples. The goal of that is, not only we will be sharing with you how you can work with both of us together at the beginning of the year to check all these boxes, which we’re so excited about. And there will be a pretty incredible discount available on that webinar. So not only will we be doing that, but also in the webinar, in and of itself, you’re going to really learn some powerful things to move forward. So anything else to add to that, Kris? Kris Jones: Well, just that our mission on this webinar is to make 2024 your best income year yet. Molly Claire: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. And simple as well, right? Because I think that these things we’re teaching and helping you with absolutely are the foundation for your best income year yet. And I know from working with Kris, her process is so simple. The process I do is so simple. And so I think there’s something magical about knowing I can make more money and it can also be easier by checking these boxes. Kris Jones: And I think especially over the holidays and starting the new year, it’s so easy to get overwhelmed with just the flood of advice coming at you from all different directions with different gurus online telling you this solution will work, and that solution will work. We’re telling you, you can tune out of all of that noise and tune into our webinar and walk away with timeless knowledge, and wisdom, strategies, and tools that you can immediately apply to your business in order to make 2024 the best year yet. Molly Claire: Yes. Okay. We’re so excited. Right. I’m going to go back register right now for our own webinar. Molly Claire: All right. Thank you so much, Kris, for being here. Kris Jones: It was such a joy. I’m really, really excited about our, our work together. Molly Claire: Yeah. Me too. So thanks all of you for listening and hopefully we will be seeing all of you on that webinar coming up. So check the show notes, go to mollyclaire.com and sign up and we’ll see you there. Intro: Thanks for listening to the Masterful Coach Podcast. Are you ready to build your amazing business with Molly as your coach? Check out www.MollyClaire.com to find out about Masterful Coach Foundations and the 10K Accelerator Method. It’s the ultimate support for you as a coach building your ideal life and business. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/spiral-up-podcast ### Title: Maximizing Your Message, with Dr. LaChelle Wieme and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5051120 ### Content: ## Maximizing Your Message ## The Spiral Up Podcast, with Dr. LaChelle Wieme and Kris Jones Maximizing Your Message, with Dr. LaChelle Wieme and Kris Jones **Ever felt like your website is just sitting there... not pulling its weight?** I hear you. In the digital jungle, it's easy for your story to get lost. But what if I told you there's a way to light up your online presence and magnetize your ideal clients? I just wrapped up an eye-opening chat on the Spiral Up Podcast, where we dived deep into the art of turning your website from a silent placeholder into your top salesperson. ? The single biggest mistake you're making with your website content. ?️ Actionable steps to a website story that captivates and converts – without sounding like everyone else. ? How to position yourself as the undeniable choice for your clients. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Welcome to the Spiral Up podcast. I'm your host, doctor Michelle Meany, a peak performance coach and business strategist dedicated to helping you see what's possible within you, the blind spots that are holding you back, and the solutions to ensure success and fulfillment without the hustle. I use my secret sauce of metaphysics, brain science, and scripture to work with God to manifest your ideal life in business. If you're ready to create massive forward momentum in your business and bust through the blocks that drag you down, join me on the sparkle up journey and create the clarity, confidence, and consistency to become the CEO that lives your life by design. It's time to create the sustainable impact, income and time freedom you desire faster. Hey. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the spiral podcast. I am your host, Michelle Wimi. And today, you guys are going to get a chance to meet, to learn from, to be inspired by storytelling expert, Kris Jones. You guys, this woman is on fire when comes everything copywriting related, and she helps you to rise above all of the competition out there to make sure that your story stands out, and you guys are gonna fall in love with her as much as I did. Girl, Kris, like, you give hope. You give practical solutions. You give people the idea that it's possible, and I cannot wait for all of us to spiral up alongside of you as as everybody, you you guys haven't heard probably, but we just rebranded the unstuck podcast into the spiral up podcast. And Kris is one of my spurs in spiral up. Spiral up is all about forward momentum. It's all about preventing ways that we spiral down in our business. It's all about Giving that amazing hope, those practical tools to level up in all the ways that you need to in life and in business. And Goodness, you guys. Like, there is a reason that Kris is one of our experts. So, girl, why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are, how you serve people just literally what lights you up. Well, LaChelle, thank you so much for having me. That intro just got me really pumped up. Yes. I'm really excited to be here today. Yeah. So my name's Kris, I have a boutique agency in Portland, Oregon called Red Door Designs, and I love helping female entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, service providers, anybody that solves an important problem. I love helping them really get to do more of that work. And I do that by helping them tell their story online So their website or their sales page acts as their top sales employee. So that page, that 1 page can do all that the lifting of selling for them. So by the by the time they get on the phone with a potential client, the client's sold. They just have to, you know, process the credit card and start the process. Absolutely. I mean, we sometimes underestimate the power of our website, and it's really, like, home base. Right? It's, like, you wanna get to know me in every way that I serve people. Like, this is where you need to go. And if you can optimize that in a way that's going to tell your story efficiently and effectively and help grab that attention. Like you said, they're sold before they even show up. And I love that that's how you that's how you work, and and I I'm super impressed by all of the amazing things that you've done in the past. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your journey? Well, I I've always been a a visual storyteller. Like, as a child, I remember inviting a neighbor A neighbor friend, a girl over to play.  And she I think she wanted to, like, watch mister Rogers or do you know, play play dolls. But I convinced her to help me create a trifold vacation brochure. And  I did that, what, by we, like, dove in Into my mom's stack of National Geographics and cut out a bunch of cool images and glued them together and folded it into To fold it in 8a half by 11 into 3, and then it was like, voila. We have this, like, exotic pretend location that we can market. And so I have I have dozens of stories like that.  So it's no wonder fast forward, you know, 20 years later, I was doing a lot of visual storytelling for some of the big brands like Nike and Adidas and really loving that work. Like, just it was it felt very natural to me. And what happened was I love the work. I learned a ton. I got really good at what I did. Mhmm. But this was back in the day when, like, a a beautiful website was really all you needed To to really shine. Right. And what was what was going on for me is that my website really wasn't doing the work that It had been before, and I was really relying solely on referrals. And it just wasn't It wasn't sustainable. You know? It was it wasn't predictable. And the the truth to it is At the same time, a client came to me. Her name was Elise, and she really wanted me to wait. Can I do a pause? Okay. So, Kris, like, I am really curious on how you got to be where you are. Like, tell us a little bit about your journey.  Well, it all started back when I was about 8 years old, and I realized in the hindsight, I've just always been a visual storyteller.  So I I remember inviting a friend over in when I was about 8, And she probably wanted to come over and play dolls, but I talked her into creating a, like, a fictitious Vacation trifold brochure.  And so we dove into my mom's stack of magazines and tore out, you know, palm trees and oceans and made this really beautiful place and folded it up into 3, and we had this trifold vacation brochures. So it's no wonder that, like, fast forward 20 years later, I'm doing similar work. Not necessarily making trifle vacation brochures, but telling telling visual stories for companies like Nike and Adidas and some big names that that I was really honored to work with and and Really kind of learn the craft  Through that. But what happened was I knew every time I was driving out, You know, to the to my cubicle in, like, at Nike in in particular. I remember driving out there one day and just thinking, like, I I feel like I'm dying a little bit inside every time I make this commute. Mhmm. And it's because I was an entrepreneur at heart.  And it's because I was I was doing enjoyable work, but it was really kind of For the big corporation rather than, like, for the entrepreneur, which I that's just who I have the heart for because that's who I relate to the most. And so I shifted I shifted the work I was doing to be more focused on branding and website design for small business and entrepreneurs. And as that happened, you know, again, I Really love the work because I found it really meaningful. But this is back in the day when, like, really all you needed was a beautiful website to do well.  And I could do that. But as the landscape online changed, the effectiveness of those websites wasn't Doing as well. And, you know, to be perfectly honest, even my own website wasn't getting me the kind of leads that it used to. Mhmm. And I I I was really relying solely on referrals to keep my business afloat, which, You know, referrals are great, but it's hard to run a predictable profitable business based the predictability. Only on referrals. Right. Right. Right. And so right about that time, a client came to me. Her name's Elise, And she had a publishing background, so she was like, oh, yeah. I got the copy part. I'll get you my website copy. You can take it and make it beautiful. And I was like, perfect. You know? She was really excited about this company that she was launching. And so we set the deadline for April 3rd, And she called me on April 2nd, and she was like, I don't know what's going on, but I cannot Write my darn website copy. I I don't know what to say. Everything that I that everything that I write, it just doesn't feel good. It doesn't. I'm going round and round, and it just feels like torture. And I was like, oh my gosh. I'm I'm so sorry. I'm not sure how to help you. You know, I can't write it for you, but you could hire a couple, you know, you could hire a copywriter, which she did. She hired a couple copywriters, and, like, you can talk to some old clients and get insights from them. You can try kind of a template templated approach. She tried all of that. It just didn't feel like her. And I think, fundamentally, what wasn't working is that she was kind of in a pickle because she couldn't outsource her own voice. Right. She was the brand. Yes. But yet she, as the business owner, was so close to her own business Yeah. But she couldn't get the perspective that she needed to talk about Yeah. So it's like, what do you do? You're, like, in between 2 options that don't feel quite right.  And so, essentially, thanks to Elise, I went on a total mission, a quest to figure out how to tell a compelling story in a website environment because the website environment's very different than other environments. And I really wanted My clients to have 1 page on their website because I think that's all we need is 1 page on our website That really does that work of selling for us so we can do the work we love. And so I flew across the country. I I became one of the very first story brand guides before the book building a story brand came out.  Yeah. Yeah. Which is a like, it's such a classic, you guys. So if you have not read, you know, StoryBrand by Donald Miller, like, this is this is what she's talking about, and that was one of the most fundamental resources that I had when I started my journey in business. So Absolutely.  Yes. I got to work with Donald Miller who is a genius, and I just Went down every path to absorb this, ability to to communicate well in a compelling way, in a way that was actually really effective. And I came out the other side of that and started applying the storytelling techniques with my clients and magical things started to happen. I was getting phone calls. I got a phone call from from 1 person who said, I'm actually charging 6 times more for the same service, and it's because we were communicating the value of that service. And Right. And Right. Yes. And he had been on the verge of burnout. He was just charging not enough And and working with clients who are driving them into the ground. And then when when he shifted the way he communicated the problem that he solved.  He started attracting high level clients. So the irony is he was charging more, and he was wasn't having to work so hard because they were, like, low maintenance clients. And, and yeah. And so I it's just Like, people going from 0 to, like, 6 figure months and all kinds of things happened. I had another client who just had a record breaking number of lead calls booked, like, the month after we implemented. So and the same thing happened for my own business. So when I applied it to my own website, The same thing happened. I was getting booked out. People were really excited once they got on the phone with me. People would people were taking the train to Portland to come meet with me in person. And it was it was wild. It was really wild to watch, like, what a difference the right words can make. And the reality is, like, we all buy a lot of things on Amazon, but we look at the picture. But, really, when we make our decision, we're reading the reviews. We go to read the reviews about the product, and that's when we purchase. And it's It's not all that different on your website. I mean, there's more to it than just having a few good reviews, but people buy when they read the words that That helped them know that you're the best person to hire for this. Absolutely. And, I mean, what you're saying is resonating with me so much because I feel like I ask this my clients a lot. It's like, there I find that a lot of people struggle with clarity. Like, I don't know what my thing is. And once they figure that out, like, the rest of it starts to fall into place. But A great question to go there is, like, if you could be the best at x, what would that look like? Yeah. And it's like you just kind of leaned into that, and you're like, okay. Well, this person has this need. And then you just made the decision to fly all over the place, to do the training, to do the things because you decided to be the best at that. And then your own business has completely exploded because you stuck with this amazing thing that you were good at and you put forth the effort towards it. I think a lot of us can get caught up into You know, we want to wear all the hats. We want to be able to do all the things. And, you know, you and I had just gotten a chance to talk before we started recording. It's like, Jag, just because I can Teach somebody how to write copy doesn't mean that that's my zone of genius or that's what I want to do. Why not have them work with somebody who that's their zone of genius. Right? And when I get a chance to concentrate my efforts on becoming the best at my zone of genius, that's how my business starts to shift. Mhmm. And so it's like not  It's not only just, like, Recognizing that you lead into that as an example for all of us  But also as an example of, hey. If this isn't your zone of genius, like, We have someone here guys that knows everything that you need to know about copywriting, especially on your website. Like, how cool is that?  And and one point I wanna make about website copy is it's so easy when we're entrepreneurs to Kind of get distracted by shiny objects, and you scroll Instagram. Everyone's got their own solution and their own, like, path for how to get this done.  And what I love about the work that I do is it's just about what's essential. What's the the least what you can do to get the biggest amount of impact.  And it's just like building that foundation of a home. Instead of before you decorate the house art on the walls. You wanna have a solid core foundation. And I I think of your website or your sales page as the center of your universe. That is like the sun. It's the sun in the universe, and everything else spirals around there. And so you don't wanna waste a bunch of time posting on Instagram Right. When it when it's pointing people to your website that doesn't reflect. It is in alignment with who you are and what you're doing now. So you end up wasting a lot of time, energy, and money When you don't have an effective website and when it's when it's there working for you, you can just send people there knowing that it's gonna be doing that job I mean, if you have a kind of a weak part of your funnel, then your your whole funnel is at jeopardy of not working as well because of that part. And so, like you said, if you're leading people to that, especially sales pages, you know, you're out doing a live launch, and then you send everybody to your sales page, and it sucks, then how it's you know, all of the work that you put into your live launch, you know, going to bring you the the income and the impact that you really wanted to make. So I'm really curious. Like, do you go in with clients that come into your sphere of influence and Audit kind of what they already have and then make suggestions and then go ahead and execute, or you usually just start from scratch?  We usually, the way it works is I typically get on a money making messaging call with my potential clients, and we assess their current situations. So we kind of I the metaphor for what I do at that point is We find out where are the holes in your boat. Where are you leaking trust? Where are you, you know, missing information around your story? Great. And We figure out, like, what you need, basically. And then as we work together, We really do typically start from scratch, because usually, the website copy that you've got is things have changed or you've gotten clarity or, my process I don't really typically work with the copy you already have. Yeah. Yeah. And I gotta just know because of the fact that you're having these money making calls, the fact that you are looking at people's website that are already in existence, what are the top mistakes that you find people are making that would come to your mind right away?  Well, I think the the the first thing I wanna say is there's definitely, like, one big mistake that most people make.  And that is making themselves the hero of their own story.  And it's just Natural that this happens because we have a website. Yeah. Usually, it's templated Squarespace or Wix or whatever. I don't care. I love all the cloud based builders. I think they're great, but those companies are in the business of or their templates are set up for a brochure website, not a high converting strategic website or web page. Right? So you pick a template that you like, and then you fill it in according to where they give you the information to do that often. You know? And so that that tends to, like you've got now you've got real estate on the Internet, but it's not actually converting for you. Right. And the other mistake that happens is because of what I call the curse of knowledge, which just means you're so close to the work that you do that you've forgotten what it's like to not know what you know, and so we often talk talk over the heads of our clients without knowing that we're doing that. We forget that they're, like, at a different phase of their journey than we are. Absolutely. Yeah. And so when you make yourself the hero, kind of back to that 1st mistake. It's really about talking more about you than talking about what matters to your potential client. We wanna really prioritize and show them that we care about them. We care about their struggle. We care about solving their problem. And we, as the guide in the story and they're the hero, We can show them what's a better future for them. Yeah. So all of that happens before we even introduce ourselves. And 99% of the websites out there for a self employed person, it kinda leads with, Hi. I'm, so and so, and this is what I'm all about. But we haven't yet earned the right to do that until we've shown them that we really care. Yeah. And I think that one of the questions that people might have that are listening is, okay. You said that I'm the guide. A guide is somebody who has to kind of know, like, the journey and wants to walk alongside of you because they've already been there. And so do you find that it's hard to be able to express, like, hey, Sister, I've been there. I get you. I've struggled where you are without making it about you. Do you know what I'm saying? So, like, how do you the fact that you see them, that you get them, that you understand because you've been there without making it about you. Right. I mean, that's where the nuance comes in. Yep. You're really they think you're talking about yourself, wealth, but you're really talking about them. You know what I mean? So that's that's the power of really good storytelling. It's it's nuanced. And that's why, like, when you go on Instagram and you're like, but all my mentors and the people that I look up to are talking about themselves. They're really talking about themselves as it relates to But it's it's hard to pick up on unless you really know how  store works. I love that so much. And what are some tips then that you would give somebody who's listening? They're like, okay. You've given me hope. Right. Because that's you know, you've done that by just sharing with your story about all the people that you've helped and the struggle that they've had, which relates to us. So you're task at storytelling, by the way. So what what tips then could you share that would help somebody be like, okay. Like, there's hope. You're giving me hope. Now what? Like, where can I start with just a small thing of a small shift that I could start with today until I get a chance to have a money making call with you? Alright. Well, for first of all, I really wanna let your listeners off the hook around why copywriting is so hard. Like, why is it so hard for us to write for our own selves? Like, we even if we were great at writing in college or, like, My client, Elise, had a publishing background.  It's because of the bottle effects. We are when you own your own business, you're inside the bottle trying to read the label of the bottle that can only be read from the outside. And so it doesn't matter how how much you try and muscle your way through it. You can't get that perspective because you're just too close to your own business. So I wanna let everyone off the hook. Like, it's not just hard for you. It's hard for everybody. And that's why, you know, having a partner and Working with an expert is so important. Yeah. And then the other piece I wanted to share is that I think, you know, rather than hiring out copy, which can often, like we mentioned before, feel like outsourcing your own voice. I take a really collaborative approach to copywriting, and so that's why I can capture that the voice that's perfectly aligned.  Yeah. I mean, that's one of my, you know, past fears when it came to hiring copywriting because it's, like, authenticity, vulnerability. All of those things are huge parts of my brand. And I'm like, how could I possibly have somebody else, you know, share my story Because it didn't feel authentic no matter, you know, how I tried it. And so that's why you guys finding somebody that's the right fit, that's willing to take that extra time, that's willing to to to kinda get in your head while still maintaining the perspective from the outside of the bottle. Right. Right. And a big part of it is knowing the right questions to ask. I know exactly what to ask to pull that story out of your brain and put it together for you. So as far as, as far as tips go, I would say I would love to break down, like, what are the components of a story. Because there's only 3 real components. And I think once you know them, you'll you'll really look at things differently whether it's your website, social posts. It'll also change the way you watch a movie too because you're like, oh, every story, every book, every movie, follows this format. So, essentially, every story begins with a problem. It begins with a a hero that has a problem, and that hero doesn't know how to solve their problem. That's your potential client. Right? They're online. They have a problem. They don't know how to overcome themselves, and they're Looking for you or they're googling you or asking the friends in their network about you. And they have a problem. And then about halfway way through the story or about a third of the way through the story. They need a guide with a solution, and that would be you. And An another example of that might be, like, Yoda or, mister Miyagi in body kit. Yep. He was a great guide. And so, we introduce you in the story a little bit farther into the story, not right at the beginning. And then that guide really helps that hero find success and avoid failure. So that is the recipe for every Story known to man. And when you apply those principles and that simple flow to your website, You pull people in. Our brains cannot help but engage. When we begin a story with a hero that has a problem, Our brains get pulled in, and it's impossible. And it's impossible to disengage just the way it is when you go to a movie. And you haven't you don't check your phone for 90 minutes. You don't think about your to do list. It's because it started with a hero that had a problem they didn't know how to solve.  And I I mean, that's so beautiful because you've mentioned a couple of things that I wanna highlight you guys. Like, number 1 is that you don't bring in the the hero or the the, guide into the story until a little bit into it. Right? And so that's what she was saying is that too often, We're like, hey. Look at me. I'm qualified because of this, this, and this. Right? And so allowing the the hero, the potential client, be the main star of the show is going to help to to relay this feeling like you're here for them, and it's not just about you. Right? I also think that one of the things that I've found in business is that people will spend money when you can help them get more money, more time or more control. And so when you are focusing on those things maybe right off the bat, sometimes people are so caught up in their own problems that they can't even envision themselves getting into the solution. So when you walk along the story with, you know, what Kris is saying, It's like you're acknowledging the problem, and then you're getting, being them, this journey to get to the solution instead of, you know, blasting the solution right away because they're like, that that happen, or I can't even see myself in that story yet. And then when you allow the the the guide to be able to help them create the solutions when you can focus on helping them find more time, more money, more control, condensing time, like you were saying, or, you know, avoiding the mistakes and those types of things, that's when you're like, that's what I need. Where do I sign? Right? So brilliant how you take people through that process. And it's not just the pieces of the puzzle, but it's the very unique sequence and the right pieces in the right order, giving the right story  Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. And people are really motivated to avoid failure. Like, they want success. They want more time. They want more money, but They're even more motivated to take action if it's gonna help them avoid failure. So part of a good part of a good story is really creating that healthy tension between success end failure, and that's where that's where it becomes really compelling. Yes. I mean, by acknowledging it and not just, like, honestly, good sales is, like, recognizing. Right? Like, you're just, like, acknowledging the the bad  And and making sure that we you know, I hate to say it, but it's, like, not like poking the bruise, but it's, like, making ourselves aware of the of the consequence to not doing something, Allowing you to get into action more readily. So it's not doing it in a manipulative manner, but it's like a. Like, hey. This is a bruise that I want to avoid for you  I mean, they know what the failure is already. Right? They're they know that, but I think that that part of the story where you kind of help them Mhmm. Remind them, like, what's at stake, really. What's at stake if you do nothing? Absolutely. I think of that as the biggest gift you can give to them because they don't want things to continue to be status quo or to spiral downward. Right? They don't want that. And so you're gifting them with reminding them, you know, this could happen, but I can totally help you avoid that. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Oh, perfect. Okay. So, Kris, is there anything that you have not had a chance talk about that you really wanna touch on before I ask you a cute few more questions.  Yeah. I wanna I just wanted to share that, you know, Story can be kind of confusing or daunting for people because they aren't sure how to do it or what to say. And I just wanna remind you that it's not necessarily about telling your story. It's about inviting your potential clients into a story with you where they play the the character of the hero and you play the character of the guide. And so it's really inviting them into a narrative with you. And when you when you do make yourself the hero of the story, There's really only room for 1 hero in every story, and the hero's actually the weakest character because they Don't know how to overcome their problems. So we never wanna paint ourselves as the hero. And when we do that, we really kick our potential clients out of the story with you. You know what it's like when you go to a website, and you're like, oh, that person's cool, but I'm gonna keep looking. You know? Yep. And and that's what happens. They're like they're you don't establish that resonance that's so important and build that trust, And that's the power of story. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. You guys, like, I hope that you are getting as much out of this episode as I am because Kris is amazing. And If you're scrappy like I have been in the past, like, definitely check out StoryBrand by Donald Miller if you guys wanna just read something. But I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, if you're watching this On YouTube, you see that I have a lot of books behind me. And I think that oftentimes what happens is we read something, and then we never execute it. And so I find that many of us kinda kinda get caught up in that. So you're gonna wanna make sure that you're taking advantage of a money making Call with Kris so that you can get out of that slump and actually get into action. Everything that I talk about is all desire, decide, do. You have to desire a better for yourself. You have to make the freaking decision to do something about it, and then you have to do you have to get into action. So, Kris, I would love for you to tell us, What is your favorite tool to spiral up, to keep yourself in forward momentum for anybody who's listening, who's gonna easily, you know, get Get caught up in in the things that drag us down. So what's your favorite way to maintain spiraling up? Well, it's kind of twofold. Number 1, I love this little, digital timer to show me. I use it many times throughout the day. Like, okay. I've got 15 minutes to get  So but once I Started putting everything into my calendar and, like, color blocking things and time blocking things. I think that's, for me, the main thing. I live by my calendar. I used to Have a to do list a mile long, and now I know if I it'll get lost in there. If I wanna actually get it done, I put it in my calendar, and I have periods of each day where I'm either doing calls or productivity.  Absolutely. That's that's amazing. I love that. Any you said you have 2. Is that  so you guys know too, like, I am just a huge fan of of productivity and time, and I do something very similar. I learned this from Sarah Light, who's another expert, of the soul planner. And it is. It's just, like, making your to do list, brain dumping it, and then assigning it to a day of the week and then a time of the day. So it doesn't just come this daunting list, but you're literally making an appointment to finish it really does help. And then as far as, like, mindset goes, I would love to know, Kris, like, when you find yourself spiraling down as all of us can from time to time, what is something that you do to to pick yourself back up? Go on a walk, move my body, get outside. You know? There is magic happens. There's a lot of really beautiful thing that things that happen in the brain when you're just doing a a gentle forward movement walk. Yes. That's, I think the best thing that that you can do is kinda step away and just Yeah. Get perspective. I love that so much. And so you guys know that you can certainly Check out all of the ways to connect with Kris inside the show notes. If you are somebody who's struggling with designing your life, you want to build a life by design, and you really want to have all of the tools available to you for you to step up to maintain that forward momentum to spiral up and to prevent yourself from spiraling down. You're gonna want to also check out the spiral up program on my website, and you are absolutely welcome to have a discovery call, breakthrough call with me so to figure out how we can get you into that forward momentum and spiraling up. So and you would have an opportunity within our program to have the chance to meet with and work with Kris right here. So I am so honored, so grateful to call you, my friend. Thanks for being a part of this. And you guys, I know that you loved her as much as I do. So so give us some feedback on that. Share this out in the social media channels. Let people know that they should be watching. Hit subscribe. Leave a message. Leave a review. Leave anything that tells us, like, what you took from this episode because we love that. It fills our hearts, builds our soul, that it builds our energy so much, so make sure that you do that. And one thing that I wanna wrap this conversation up with, and I've done this since I've started the Unstuck podcast all those years ago is ask my guests to think of 1 question that's gonna allow the audience to go from where they are to where they wanna be. So what question would you love for them to think about and ponder that's gonna kinda get them moving in the right direction? Love it. Yeah. Love it. That's amazing. You guys, thanks so much for listening. I will see you here next week at the same time. And, Kris, thanks so much for being here. Bye, everybody. You. Oh, wait. Before we go Yeah. If you want, I would love to share my freebie. Yes. Do it. Information. Okay. So if you are ready to dive into story and you don't wanna spend any money, you can go to red doordesigns.com. That's red door designs, with ans at the end, .com. And I have a free download. It's called how to write compelling copy in 5 minutes flat. Oh. It's a 5 minute video and a worksheet that you do while you watch the video. It's the best way to just dive into the things that we talked about today. And then I also have an offer on there too. If you're just Done with the DIY thing. You can have me write your copy and have it be all done in 2.5 hours flat. Girl, that's amazing. You guys, make sure that you check that out. Thank you so so much, and I will see you guys all later. Bye, everyone. You.  So much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. Each honest review helps me spiral up so that I can serve you even better. Whether you're feeling a lack of impact, income, or trend freedom, or perhaps you're just ready for massive momentum in your business, let's chat. Apply for a breakthrough your calls so that you can gain clarity, identify what's holding you back, and make a plan to spiral up. Head on over to I mdashlifebydesigndot backslash breakthrough or access the link in the show notes. For media support, log in to our community, the Better Club. We focus on inspiration, tactical guidance, and support. This is a community that wants to be better, do better, and have better in life and in business, and we're gonna help you do the same. Let's *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/shades-of-entrepreneurship ### Title: A Conversation with the Founder of Red Door Designs, with Gabriel Flores and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5055291 ### Content: ## A Conversation with the Founder of Red Door Designs ## Shades of Entrepreneurship Podcast, with Gabriel Flores and Kris Jones A Conversation with the Founder of Red Door Designs, with Gabriel Flores and Kris Jones **Do you ever feel like you’re constantly chasing the next big thing to stand out and get more clients?**  Trust me, you're not alone. Entrepreneurs everywhere are maxed out, looking for the magic formula that makes their business unforgettable.  I just had a great conversation with Gabriel Flores on the "Shades of Entrepreneurship" podcast. We shared insights that could change the game for your business. ? The art of simplifying your message to cut through the noise.  ? How to leverage your unique story across all your marketing platforms.  ⚖️ How this one thing will make you 22x more memorable. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Shades of Entrepreneurship. This is your host, mister Gabriel Flores. Today, I am here with Chris Jones from Red Door Designs. Really excited about this woman because it's a local Portland entrepreneur who is actually referred to by a former guest, Adam Haven. So, Adam, thank you so much for this, but let's stop talking about Adam. Let's start talking about Chris. Chris, introduce yourself. Well, my name is Chris. I'm a local business owner. I run a boutique firm called Red Door Designs, and I've been doing this work now for 20 years. And I basically am a storyteller. I help entrepreneurs and small business owners get really clear on how to communicate about their business in a way that's very compelling, that will truly resonate with your idea with their ideal clients and really feels aligned with who they are as an entrepreneur. So the way that I do my work is very much focused on simplicity, telling a clear story, having a clear message, and then taking that message and putting it out into the world via your website, all your social platforms. The beautiful thing about it is that when you take the time to tell a a compelling story, you never have to reinvent the wheel. So you get to use that and repurpose that story on all your marketing materials, which I don't know about you, but the entrepreneurs that I work with have a lot on their plate. They're overwhelmed. They're feeling spread too thin. And so anywhere where you can optimize things and repurpose things and make marketing your business easier, I'm all about it. So that's what I help my people do. Yeah. Chris is pulling out my heartstrings because, you know, she talked about a lot of things right there that really are things I go through myself. Like folks, for example, me and Chris were talking right before we got on the show, there's going to be reels of this conversation, right. That we'll post on, on, social media. They're also going to use her logo. We use her photo, right? These are different marketing pieces. I used to also do quotes. I used to grab quotes from each of the episodes, but as Chris mentioned, got a lot on the plate, you know, it's, it's been difficult. So I apologize folks that have been watching our social channels and haven't been getting to it because I certainly do have a lot in my plate. But, you know, Chris, let's talk about, your your current venture. How did you start the business? Oh my gosh. It's been so long ago. Essentially, I began as a visual storyteller, so I loved design, branding. Like most people in Portland, I worked at Nike. I got to work in their design depart department and really visually communicate powerful messages through colors, fonts, photography, all the branding types of things that that we all get to work with when we own our own business. And, eventually, over the course of many years, the landscape kind of changed, and everybody needed a website. And so I started helping my clients create websites, and I loved it because there's so much design involved. This is, like, back in the day when Flash was the thing. I don't know if you remember that. Man. That thing just killed the tele I don't even think phones were able to use Flash because it just got so much energy. Well and no one it never occurred to somebody that you would go to a website from your phone because you were you know, it it was just such a a different time. But what happened was I loved doing the work, and I really loved working with I I loved transitioning from working with, like, the bigger corporations and kind of getting good at the craft, and then my people are really entrepreneurs. They're small business owners, and they're here doing the work that they love. And they just wanna focus on the work that they love and not all the other things that go along with running a business. And so I started working with clients like that. And as time went on, I went from creating these beautiful websites, that were mostly visual, and they began not to be as effective for my clients. Because at that point, it went from all you need is a professionally designed website to grow as a business to, okay, now all my competition, they have websites, and, you know, just a beautiful website isn't going to get you a new client new clients anymore. It's not gonna fill up your schedule, and convert. And so I had a client actually one time. This is years ago, like, in 2016, and she had been in the publishing industry. She she was really excited about this new business that she was gonna launch. She has she was like, I've got the copy down. Like, I want you to do the website design, so we it was the perfect fit. And so she felt really comfortable because she'd been in the publishing industry for years years. And so we set the project kickoff date. Her her, her copy her website copy was due to me on April 1st, and then I got a call that day that was just like, oh my gosh, Chris. I'm pulling my hair out. I'm like, this is so much harder than I thought it was gonna be. Why am I struggling so hard? Like, I consider myself a good writer. This is kind of my industry. What what the hell is going on, essentially? And and so she's like, can you help me? And I'm like, I can, like, brainstorm I can, like, brainstorm with you, but I can't, like, necessarily take this off your plate because it wasn't part of my expertise. And so we brainstorm some things. I said you can hire this copywriter, maybe talk to some clients, maybe step away from it and come back to it. We and she tried all the all the things, and she actually tried hiring multiple copywriters. And what what happened was the copy that she hired out, it didn't feel like her. It just it was like somebody went and wrote it for her, and it's really hard to capture someone's voice when you're not that person. And so she was in this pickle where, like, she couldn't hire somebody, but she felt really stuck trying to do it herself. And so that was a rough that was a rough, like, project for me. But at that point, I basically was like, I'm never letting this happen again. Like, I am gonna crack the code on how to tell a compelling story online in a way that truly resonates and aligns with my clients and also is incredibly effective at helping them grow their business. And so I just went on a mission. I flew across the country. I went to storytelling workshops. I read books. I practiced. I I even got certified as one of the very first StoryBrand guides, which is, yeah, which it I was, like, certified before the book even came out. It's, for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, there's a book called Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller, who also was a Portland guy I went to read. I'm gonna have to get see that every time I bring port Portland people, they're like, by the way, here's another guest. Right? Right. Exactly. And so I I just fell in love with story because it was so in alignment with what I was already doing, and it was basically deepening my ability to tell stories in a way that was just incredibly effective and helpful for my clients. So I started applying the framework and, and also really pairing it with beautiful design. Right? Like, the story is so powerful, but when it's paired with beautiful visual design that really brings that story to life, I would say that's when you start bubbling up to the top of the Internet or the top of your industry because no one's really doing both. Yeah. Very, very important. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of how how things have evolved for for my business over the years. And now what I do, like, the only way to work with me to kind of come in through those red doors is through going through my, storytelling. Let's get your business story really dialed in and really clear, and then we can do the other marketing components for you. But we always start there because it's truly the foundation of your business. You know, there's 2 things, folks, that I really wanna pull out for the listeners. One is the the thing you mentioned was regarding conversion. Right? You you're at the end of the day, you know, we're talking about this. In fact, we're again a shameless plug. I'm writing about this in the newsletter right now in the shades of e newsletter talking about the sales funnel and how it actually, the marketing funnel also coexists with the sales funnel. So there are marketing tactics that go along with the sales tactics at each stage of these funnel. And again, the marketing team, as Chris is kind of talking about, their goal is to help you get to that conversion as well. Right. Because we're all on the same team and we want to create a conversion sale. And then after that, then, then comes a loyalty, right? How do we, how do we maintain that? And that that's, that's a really, really important piece, but also there was just the important piece about the storytelling as well. I really want to call that out too when, you know, if you're a don't go. If you're a new entrepreneur, don't focus on pricing. Focus on building a brand and how you can do that is by storytelling. You know, I always talk about personal stories when I do, public speeches because it resonates with the, with the audience. And it also makes it practical sense, right? Here's the data. Here's the information we talked about. Now let me make it practical by actually real, really resonating you with a personal story, you know, and I think that's Chris, I think those are 2 big things. You know, I love to pull out the education piece when somebody says some golden nuggets like that, because it really does help, folks learn and understand like, oh, that's what they mean. Now, can you take a time? Like take us back to the beginning of your entrepreneurial journey? I want to start like the very beginning. What motivated you to take the leap to start in entrepreneurship? Well, before I dive into that, I just wanna echo your statement about the power of story as a tool for becoming memorable. So as entrepreneurs, a big part of the challenge is, like, how do I stand out? How do I be remembered? And if you think about, like, the last presentation you went to or the last Zoom call you went to, if somebody asked you what was it about, you would remember that personal story that they shared. They might have all kinds of other data and information they talked about for 45 minutes. You remember the 2 minute story that they shared with you. So stories are actually 22 times more memorable than just facts, and that's the power of story. It's a lot about just simple psychology. And and so when I talk about story for my clients and the people that I work with, I'm I'm also talking about story, not so much in the way that, like, you read a a book to your kids, like, once upon a time. It's more like how to create a narrative, how to craft a story for your business that invites your potential clients into a story with you where they're really the hero of the story and you play the Yoda or the guide of that story. And so it's, it's an invitation to invite it's an invitation to deeply connect and resonate with your ideal clients. That's the power of story. Man, and and a great example of this, folks, is is Nike. You know, you mentioned you work at Nike. Nike doesn't actually make anything. Right? They're a brand. They put the swoosh on things. That's what they do. But then they make you feel a certain way with their branding and their marketing. You make it feel like an athlete. When I put on the Jordans, I can stick out my tongue. I think I'm gonna dunk. I can't, I can't dunk it. You I stick out my tongue, but I cannot dunk it. I'll be honest. Right? But it just again, going back to that storytelling piece, it's it how valuable it is, and so I'm glad that you pulled that piece out. Now, again, I would love to kind of go back. What motivated you to jump into entrepreneurship? You know, when I think back on it, I I've always been wired for entrepreneurship. I had my first business when I turned 8, and it was called What were we doing at 8? What was Kristen's doing at 8? It was called Kristen's Crafts with a k, and it was I had, I had my own business cards. And, yeah, it was very official. I went door to door and peddled acrylic goods that I would customize with paint pens. And and so, truly, I was I was just, it's kind of in my wiring. And I think for me, I had to be, you know, I had to be employed for a number of years to really learn the craft and get experience under my belt. So I have no regrets on that, but I always was so driven toward freedom, and entrepreneurship that making that leap wasn't wasn't all that hard for me. It was kind of like, oh, the the next obvious step. I also think that, I was working out at Nike, and I was in a cubicle. And I was just kind of, like, commuting out 26 every morning. And I just could feel in my bones when I made that commute and when I was stuck in a cubicle all day that it was, like, killing a little bit of my soul every day. I could just it was just just a knowing that I had. And it really being in a scenario like that, it was not an option for me. And I also was at a time in my life that I didn't have, you know, a big car payment or people that take care of kids, and and so I think that also really helped that transition not feel so scary. You know, I I feel like you know, speaking of transitions and scary transitions, I think entrepreneurship in itself is a very scary endeavor. Right? It comes with its fair share of challenges, I would say. Could you share some of your significant hurdles that you've encountered when starting your business, and how did you navigate through it? I think that along the way, and I am I imagine this is pretty common. I wanted to kind of do everything, and so, I would take on projects that really weren't necessarily, like, in my wheelhouse, but I I would just say yes because I I had this mentality around, like, if you say no, they might never come back or they might not come back. Right? So I I did 2 things. I took on projects that probably weren't in my wheelhouse. Like, I took on this project for an infomercial company, and they were like, oh, you're a designer. We need you to edit this infomercial. And I was like, okay. And they're like, okay. Come down to the editing house. I had no idea how to operate even the editing software. It was like and I remember I just I had figured things figured things out before, and so I was just like, oh, I'm sure I'll figure it out. How hard can it be? Well, that that was the one thing. Like, I couldn't learn editing video editing when I was more of a graphic designer at that time, and so I pulled an all nighter. I didn't do a good job at all, and I cried basically in the morning because I was exhausted, and I had to kind of failed. So that and then also kind of in alignment with that was just taking on more than I could handle. Like, I would say yes. I would kind of let people, I guess, you know, I don't wanna I wasn't, like, a victim or anything, but I would just let people take advantage of me. I remember I remember having, like, projects that would be on their, like, 25th round of revisions, and I didn't know how to have boundaries around that. And so I would find myself working really hard, too hard, and, not charging enough and, canceling on things that I really wanted to do, like social things, time with friends. So, yeah, those are the those are the things that I struggled with, and I think how I overcome that came that was just through time of learning the combination of what do I really, really love doing and what, what can I really deliver for my clients that can promise results? And once you kind of hone in on that, then you can start practicing like, okay. What's realistic? Like, typically, I can do this with only 2 rounds of revisions. So how can I, you know, give my clients what they need without having me bend over backwards or feel depleted? Yeah. No. This is you know, I think you again, that message in regards to and this is some a good takeaway for the listeners, you know, talking about how you felt like you failed to take it on that project. But again, you learned immensely, right? And then you learned, took that learning moment and were able to succeed because now you can focus on your core competency. And that's, folks, you know, listen, and this is why I always say I've never felt it a day in my life. I either learn or so I succeed. Chris did both. She learned and then she succeeded. And I think this is a testament to all entrepreneurs of that's kind of the mindset. When you go into this, you're going to have some hiccups. It's not, it's not for the Phantom Hour. It's not easy, but it's super enjoyable, when when you have those, moments of success. There are moments of pounding your head against the wall several times. Right? But, you know, it's it's interesting because, you know, finding those moments and, like, you know, hurdling that moment is very important because, again, failure to me, is truly saying, okay, I can't do it and then stop and just completely giving up. Okay. Then you failed. But if you truly took that moment and learn from it and try to pivot and figure out what's best for you, and then you succeed from there right now, Chris, you have a lot of experience, so I'm going to go ahead and pick your brain because I I'm I'm I get to do this. Right? And now what are the most important, components to of telling a good story? Well, every good story begins with a character or a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. And so we wanna always begin our communications with our hero and talk about their problems. So I think what I want your listeners to really write down if you have a pen, or just remember this in your brain because it's it's really important. Every story begins with a hero that has a problem. They meet a guide who gives them a really clear plan that calls them to action and ultimately results in success. And so that is the formula for story, and what I want you guys to remember is just you are not the hero of your own story. As business owners, we are the guide. We are the mister Miyagi. We are the Yoda. And so I I think just that shift can potentially change the way you communicate about your business. So we really wanna it's it's challenging, and I get why this happens. We're entrepreneurs. We love the work that we do, and we wanna talk about it a lot. But when we focus our communications around our clients and the people that we help, it it helps them get a sense that we we understand what they're going through, and we we can help them. So it's really about them. And the other thing I wanna share is that the hero is actually the weakest character in the story. They're think about the movie that you last went to. Like, there it begins with a hero who has a problem. The reason we don't get up and leave the theater is because we don't know if that hero is gonna succeed or if they're gonna fail. Right? They're struggling to overcome a problem. So when we make ourselves the hero of our own story, we're actually painting ourself as the weakest character in the story, and there's only room for 1 hero in the story. And so it really it's important that we show up as the guide. Man, Unit's kinda crazy. I'm starting to think back on little blast movie out Encanto. Man. Right? Encanto is a Bela. Right? That the younger sister, she was the the one, right, like you mentioned, kind of the the weaker link, but she would end up being the hero. Right? Lord of the Rings. Sorry, Frodo Baggins. You are the weakest link, right? The sad, it's very interesting. They kind of, I'd never really thought about that. But again, now I start looking at the stories and the movies I've, you know, really kind of drawn to. That's exactly how the story kind of unfolds. Right? All of them. A 100% of all of them. Yep. Oh, man. So now I'm gonna I'm gonna kinda ask some questions about copy. Now for folks that are unfamiliar, so copy is a marketing reference to written information that aims to inform, persuade, or entertain an audience. Okay. So now, again, Chris, you're providing valuable information. So share us three most common mistakes entrepreneurs make with copy and how they can avoid it. Oh, gosh. Okay. Common mistakes. I mean, definitely the one about making yourself the hero of your own story. I think as self employed people, we've typically been doing the work, for a while, and so we forget what it's like to not know what we know. And what happens when we do this is we make an assumption that our the people that visit our website, that they know as much as we do about our industry. And we tend to either, use complicated language, use too much language, too much copy, or too much copy is just like text. Right? So putting too much text on your website, using terminology that kind of is over their head or that makes them work to really understand it. That's another mistake that I I see a lot. And then the other thing is really getting so excited about how we solve their problem. We forget to really articulate really where they're at, meeting them where they are at. And when we do that take the time to meet them where they're at by articulating their struggles and really painting a picture of a brighter future for them, they really begin to resonate with us. They begin to automatically think we're the best ones to solve it. They begin to trust us, which people will not work with people they don't trust. So it really does pay to take the time to tell a clear, and compelling story, and that's how you overcome all those challenges. When you have too much text, a story will simplify your communication so you're not overloading people with text on your website. No one's gonna read it if you have too much copy on there. That's true. Now now why do you think it's hard for you know, why do you think it's hard to write copy for your own business? Now, again, folks, copy is written information that aims to inform, persuade, or entertain an audience. So why do you think for as entrepreneurs, right, why do you think it's hard to write copy for your own business? Because you're too close to it. So I have yet to meet an entrepreneur that doesn't struggle with this. When you're so close to your own business, trying to write copy for your own business is like you're inside of a bottle, and you're trying to read the label that can only be read from entrepreneurs think in their mind, if I keep working on this, eventually, I'm gonna be able to write something that I really like. And then 2, 3, 4 years later, they're like, okay. Fine. I'll hire somebody to help me. And it's because you can't you can't get out of the bottle that you're in. It's like putting your hand against your face and somebody asking you to describe your own hand. It just doesn't work. So that's why it's so hard. It's just it's it's such an incredibly frustrating process, and these are the clients I talk to all day every day. You know? They're just fed up, and they need some help and support. But they don't they also wanted to feel aligned with them, so they want it to be a collaborative process, which it should be. And that's how it becomes very efficient too. You you know, you raised actually another question is one of your statements. When when is it? Like, you know, you mentioned entrepreneurs. Sometimes they do it themselves, and sometimes they hire professional. When is it okay to do it yourself, and when should they hire a professional? You know, when you're an entrepreneur, this is a good it was an incredible time to be an entrepreneur because you've got a lot of tools. Like, back in the day, you could not go and build your own website. You could not go there was no Squarespace. You had to hire a a developer in order to do it. And then if you needed to make changes or edits, it was a total headache. And so I'm a big fan of DIY ing the things that you can, like if you wanna revamp your website or create a website from scratch, there are beautiful templates within Squarespace or Wix or wherever you go that are designed by designers, and you can leverage their templates and have a website. Unfortunately, it doesn't really work the same for copywriting. I think that a lot of people do DIY it, but they never quite feel good about it. They never quite feel confident about it. They never quite feel proud to send people there. They kinda cringe when someone says, what's your website address? And they're like, oh, well, you know, just email me. Don't really I haven't updated the website in a while. It's not really a truly a true reflection of the work that I'm doing right now. And so, I really I believe there's no real way around, at least now, no real way around. I just don't think it's in your best interest to DIY or write your own copy if you really if you're really ready for it to be effective and you really have the capacity to bring on more clients. I think it's important to get to get help. I love it. You know what, folks? I I was gonna ask, you know, I'm gonna I'm a be selfish. I'm gonna be selfish right now. I was going to ask for you to, you know, what would you, what would you tell our listeners one thing they can change about their website? You know what we're gonna do folks. This is a great opportunity for me to plug the YouTube channel. What I'm going to do right now is I'm going to share my screen. I'm going to bring up my website. I'm going to bring up theshadesofe.com webpage. I'm going to show it to Chris. Chris, how, what, where can I, you know, just briefly looking at it, obviously, you know, quickly here, but hey? What what looking at my website, how can I improve my copy? So you folks When when people land on your page I love doing this, by the way. This is what I do on all my money making messaging calls, which I do for free. Part of the the calls that I do, we look at your website, and we essentially identify, like, where are the holes in your boat? Where are you where are you sinking? Where are you bailing out water when we can shore that up with storytelling and get your boat to where you wanna go? So, when people land on your page, we need to be able to communicate to them in 5 seconds or less what you do, how it's gonna make their life better, and what you want them to do next. So, you're communicating right here a business education podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. Okay. I'm already just by your but what you said, I'm already failing, like, 3 or 4 of the categories that you mentioned. I'd love I'd love to help you get this part dialed in. I think you can simplify what it is. I think we we wanna communicate how it's gonna make their life better. So, we'd wanna bake ins bake in a core key benefit here. And then the most, valuable real estate on the entire page is in this upper right hand corner here. Upper right hand corner, that's where the that's where the eye goes farther right farther right. Oh, up here. Yeah. It would be, like, listen now. Listen to list you know, you could point it to, like, your favorite episode or listen to the latest episode. What do you want them to do? You you're if you're the guide, you're the one that knows how to solve this problem for them so you know what to tell them to do next. You're you don't wanna let them figure it out all by themselves. They are looking for you to step in as as their guide. And the other thing is, you know, you finally captured people. They're finally on your page. You finally have an opportunity to connect with them, resonate with them, build trust, convert them into listeners. The last thing you want to do is send them over to Facebook and let the their own algorithm, take over and have them get distracted. So you're like, welcome to my page. Let's connect. And then right at the top, you've got all your social icons, which potentially could send them away. Gotcha. That's interesting. You wanna be able to take the time to get you know, for them to get to know you and to help them understand that you know where they're at, and, we don't wanna send them off to another platform. I like it. I like it. Man, folks, again, I hope you folks are actually watching on YouTube. That was just a quick two minute glimpse of what Chris and her team can do for you guys now. Chris, what, what can clients, if, if you know, some some folks are listening and maybe they wanna they wanna reach out to you and get some work, what can clients expect while working with you? So my core offer is called copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat, and that is story branded copy for your website, either your home page or a sales page. But the idea is I write your copy for you. I essentially, step 1 is I pull that story out from your brain. Our brains as entrepreneurs are and we walk into the garage, and we Great analogy. Phenomenal. An analogy. Thank you. We walk into the garage, and we're like, okay. That pile there, is that full of treasure, or is it full of trash and clutter? And so my job just ever after doing this work for so long, I know how to pull out the gold from your brain. I pull that story out from your brain, and then I take that information and write your copy for you. And then you and I get on a collaboration call for 90 minutes, and I walk you through what I've written and help you really understand the strategy and the why behind everything that I've written. I'm a big believer that every word on your website is guilty until proven innocent. So we really take a less is more approach. People are not even reading websites anymore. They're scanning them at a rapid rate from their phone, and so it has to be written in a way that people's brains can absorb the information and really, understand what you do and how you can help them as they're going through the page really, really quickly. And so so that's how I work with my clients. Then they take that copy and copy and paste it over to their website. And then at that point, I put on my designer hat, and I give them feedback on design, fonts, flow, photography, just to make sure that the visual story they're telling is bringing to life the written story that we've so carefully crafted. Now what's one thing that you've kind of gone through in your entrepreneurial journey that you're glad you got through that because it made you successful today? What's one thing that you can kinda look back on? Oh my gosh. Or many, many things. Having my baby boy, a 100%. And for me, up until I had him, I was overworking a lot. I was inefficient with my time. I gave too much away, and having a child forced me to reprioritize and streamline my systems, streamline everything in my business, and absolutely the hardest thing I've ever done. I mean, you hear that a lot about parenting, but for me, it was like of course, like, parenting was hard. It still is. But for me, it was like reimagining my business now that I have these constraints and how to really still get to do the work that I love, but also have, more time freedom to take care of him. So, yes, that that would that would be the the clear, obvious answer to your question. Yeah. And, again, folks, it's it's kind of crazy. I'm I'm a I'm a father myself. I got 2 kids, 2 girls, and I'm telling you that the way you kind of view life differently from a different lens sometimes, having that responsibility of taking care of another individuals is really, really high. And I'm not sure that it would be all Peter Parker with great power comes great responsibility type of things, but truly it kind of is that way. Right. You know, and, you're do and one thing I would encourage you though to do is when you're when you're building your business, kind of make sure your level set with that as well because I've actually had this conversation just this week where, hey, it's great. I want to grow and build and build and build because I want to create generational wealth for my family. But that building that generational wealth for my family shouldn't constantly pull me away from my family. Right? Because at the end of the day, there's nothing more valuable than your time and your time spent with your family. You'll never regret that. You'll never regret it. Well, sometimes. Right? You know, you know those family members, but no. But you'll never regret, you know, spending time with your kids. I don't regret, you know, going to basketball at 9 in the morning on Saturdays. I enjoy it. I can't wait for a Saturday because I get to scream at all these little kids, you know, and it's just, it's truly is an enjoyable thing, but just remember, try to level set yourself, remember what you're, who you're doing it for. And just kind of remember that that time that you have with them is, is just as valuable as any generational wealth you can create. Now, Chris, for the listeners at home that are interested in maybe learning more about you, they wanna contact with you, how can they get a hold of you? The best way to connect with me is to go to my web site, which is at reddoordesigns.com. That's reddoordesigs.com. And there, if you're just fed up and done trying to DIY your copy, you can go through my copy that sells offer. It's a 1 on 1 done for you offer. And if you're more of somebody who's enjoying the DIY and just you wanna learn more about story, you can also go to my website and sign up for my how to write compelling copy in 5 minutes flat video and worksheet, and you can really kind of learn and practice the fundamentals of what I've talked about today. Perfect. And then, again, folks, if you, did not get that website, it's a great time to plug the Shades of Entrepreneurship newsletter. You can actually subscribe by visiting the shades of e.com. We'll have Chris's information on there as well as Red Door Designs information, linked to the website and their bio. Again, this, newsletter will come out every Wednesday. Hers' information will come out the week before the episode airs, the week the episode airs, and the week after. This, interview will also be streamed on YouTube. Now if you want early access to this episode, you can actually get early access by visiting Patreon for $5 a month. You can get early access to all of our all of our content, as well as the book and other valuable, discounts there on the Patreon. Now before we go, Chris, is there any last words you have for the folks listening? I think the the final words I would share are be the guide. Be the guide. I like it. You know? And and, again, and make sure when you're you're make sure you're guiding people, you know, to the to the right locations and not to walls or off cliffs for that matter, you know. Right. Be a good guide. Chris, thank you again so much. I really do appreciate the time. For those folks listening, please follow us at the Shades of E on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and YouTube. Thank you, and have a great night. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/success-genius ### Title: Strategically Take a Year Off From Instagram, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5055411 ### Content: ## Strategically Take a Year Off From Instagram ## Success Genius Podcast, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones Strategically Take a Year Off From Instagram, with Neill Williams and Kris Jones **Are you tired of the constant pressure to post on Instagram?** **?** If you are anything like me, social media posting always falls to the end of my to-do list. It’s like that looming homework assignment that literally never goes away.  Neill Williams and I talk about a strategy that will change the way you view social media management forever. **Here's what you’ll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn about the "Freedom 15" and how it helps you take the year off social media. ? Find out why focusing on strategic content beats daily posting. ? Get insights into applying the StoryBrand framework to Instagram to let it work for you on autopilot. **This episode is a must-listen for any entrepreneur seeking to reclaim their time. ?** ? Take Action: Listen now and start a more efficient and effective Instagram strategy. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Welcome to Success Genius, the only podcast for ambitious entrepreneurs who are serious about transforming their productivity game. I'm your host, Master Certified Life Coach and Yogi Neill Williams. And I believe that true productivity doesn't come from more hours in the office, but from the mindsets and habits that leverage your maximal focus and energy. On this podcast, we'll dive deep into next level habits, Transcripts, mindset shifts, and unique practices like Yoga Nidra. But we're steering clear of any band aid solutions and time wasting fads. You will hear me talk about quick fixes, hacks, and trendy apps that promise the world and deliver nothing. Let's be real. How many planners and time management systems have you bought that are either collecting digital or literal dust? You and I both know these don't work. This show is all about the simple, everyday, high impact practices validated by neuroscience and psychology, because as it turns out, your body is as pivotal to your productivity as your mind. So if you want to get 40 hours of work done in 10, stick around, we've got a lot to talk about. I'm Neill Williams, and this is the success genius podcast. Welcome to episode 214, the final episode in this current four part series on efficiency in business. Thanks for listening. Let me ask you a little question when it comes to creating your social media posts, whether it's Instagram or Tik TOK or anything else, how do you feel about that each week? I don't know about you, but it's one of those things that I can easily kick the can on and punt till the very last thing on my schedule each week. If that is you, then this episode is for you. Neill is going to cover the story brand formula for us again. So we're going to get educated on that framework, but she's also going to help us apply it with her freedom 15 tool. Now, if you're interested in that, this is a tool she developed. It's super cool, and it will allow you to strategically take a year off of Instagram. So if you're tired of spending hours each week on your Instagram and want a tool that lets you take the year off, just like I do, join me in this episode and hear how to apply the Freedom 15 tool that brilliant copywriter, Neill Jones has come up with. Neill, welcome back to the show. I am so very excited to have you on today sharing this brand new tool that is going to help all of us as busy entrepreneurs strategically take a year off of Instagram. Hallelujah. Thank you. Thank you,. I'm so thrilled to be here. Yeah. So you've been here before. You are my StoryBrand copywriter, which we're going to talk about StoryBrand in just a minute. But you messaged me a couple of weeks ago with a brand new tool that you had created. And literally, I mean, I haven't had this response to an offer or tool or a program in a long time, but it really stopped me in my tracks. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is like the most brilliant thing I have seen for a long time. So I immediately was like, okay, I'm doing this. And do you want to come on the podcast and talk about it? Because I think it's, it's something that is like. It felt like such a lift off because for me, at least doing my weekly Instagram, like coming up with the content and then doing the posts and then managing it and all that just feels like a lot and something I dread. So it was like such a refreshing idea that you had here. Yes. Yes. As coaches, we wear so many hats and we have full full plates. So the last thing we want to do is just feel obligated to post and have a presence on Instagram. And, you know, sometimes the posts are good, but a lot of them I don't know if you've noticed this, but when you get on Instagram, a lot of people are just posting out of obligation. And so the content isn't always quality. It's often filler because we come to it with that feeling of, okay, my obligatory post for the day or for the, you know, so, so yeah, it's like a win win. It's so good and yeah, I do think like we get caught in the like quality idea and focus when it comes to social media versus really thinking about quality. And I, when I think about what your, this tool that we're going to talk about called the freedom 15 in my mind, at least it feels like very quality content on Instagram and very simple and really something that Can help us grow our businesses and kind of like do work behind the scenes without us having to constantly be posting stuff on Instagram. So I love it for so all of those reasons. And right, right. I mean, I think, you know, my My main offer is called copy that sells, which you named and, and what I love about the main offer is that it really turns your sales page or your homepage into your top sales employee. And so the concept is really similar. How can we turn Instagram into your, your award winning top sales employee without you having to constantly feed it. Oh, my gosh. That's so powerful. So hopefully everybody is stopping right now and really thinking about that. Yes, I want Instagram to be a top sales person, just like I want my sales page to be one of my top sales people. So before we dive into the tool, cause it's super cool. It's like I said, brilliant. Let's take a step back and go up and and just quickly hit the highlights of the story brand framework and formula just so everybody can see how that's interwoven inside of this new Freedom 15 tool they created. Okay, so every story you've ever heard, read, every movie you've ever gone to begins with a character or a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. So, they're out and about, usually on Google, trying to find somebody, trying to find a guide who can help them overcome and solve this problem. As the guide, I guess what I want you you to take away here is that you are the guide. You are Mr. Miyagi. You are Yoda. And your clients Or your students are really the hero of your story. So when I talk about storytelling for your business, it's less about telling like your story and it's more of inviting your potential clients into a narrative with you, into a story with you, where they can really envision themselves as the hero in that story. And they get to envision you as the guide. The guide is really the strongest character of the story because they know how to solve the problem that the hero doesn't know how to solve. So the guide, really their, their purpose is to help their hero win the day. But the heroes really, they want to find success, but it feels overwhelming for them to reach it. It feels daunting and overwhelming. Otherwise, if it didn't, they would just solve it themselves, right? So, our One of our roles as the guide is to help them envision a brighter future for themselves. What's possible for them? They're stuck, they're overwhelmed, they're struggling, and it's our job to really remind them what's possible. And also a big part of our role is to remind them that it's not going to be so hard and overwhelming to get to where they want to go. And the way we do that as guides is to break it down and give them a clear plan. We want to call them to action. If they don't take action, they're not going to solve the problem, right? They're going to stay stuck where they're at. So, let's do that. We break it down into a three step plan that calls them to action, and then that results in them experiencing success. And we also want to really remind them that we're going to help them avoid failure too, because our brains are motivated to take action if we know it's going to help us avoid failure. And that's one mistake I see a lot online these days is we talk a lot about failure. success or what you're going to get or what you're going to achieve. We forget to really remind them that we're also going to help them avoid failure. And doing that is really our gift to them. It's our gentle, loving nudge that if you don't do anything, this problem is not going anywhere. Yeah. And I think that's so powerful because if you read any of the psychology literature, And on motivation, we are actually much more motivated to avoid failure than we are to achieve success. It seems opposite, right? But I agree. I mean, I've been guilty of this for sure and something you have pointed out to me multiple times. You need to have that piece where you show them what is the cost here? Like what is going to happen if they don't take action? Yeah, and I think a tangible way to think about this is think about when you went to a movie last time, did you get up and leave? In the middle of the movie. No, you didn't. It pulled you in because the hero had a problem and, and your little buns didn't get up off of that chair because of stakes. If there are not stakes in the story, it's not compelling. Also said the way to create a compelling story is to have stakes. And that means creating a healthy tension between success and failure. And I love that. So good. So tell me, you already said this a little bit, but I think this is a really powerful idea. It's basically taking that, that story brand philosophy, and you've nuanced this a little bit to make it even more powerful in your own way and taking it from like an actual sales page. Like we think about a sales page, a webpage in our brains, and we create an Instagram version of that. Blew my mind. I was like, why has not, nobody's ever thought about this like this before. Well, I think a lot of people are familiar with the idea of a nine grid, which is essentially a way of posting where visually, when you look at the overall grid of the page, they connect with each other. And so I don't think that idea is necessarily new, but my. Approach to it is really different because it's driven by story and it's like when you make a big pot of chili, you want to put all the ingredients in. You can't just put the beans in and go, here's your chili, honey. So you have to have all the ingredients there in order to create a compelling story. And so the idea is to really. Be intentional, be very intentional with the 15 posts that you create, that each of them are representative of the ingredients of a very compelling story. And, The reality is when somebody hears about you or learns about you, one of the first things they're going to do is check you out on Instagram, right? And they're going to stalk you on Instagram, what's going on? And so the idea here is really less about having to feed the beast and constantly post and To have 15 very clear strategic posts that when they do stalk you, they look at you and within just a few minutes, they really get an understanding of what you do, what problem you solve, how it's going to make their life better, maybe a freebie of how they can work with you, or a freebie of how you can help them Experience a mini win and ultimately the call to action what you want them to do next, right? How we know our how we know our sales page or websites are working is if the people who visit are clicking on the call to action. And so really the purpose of the Freedom 15 is to give them enough information so they can identify if they're the right fit type of client for you. And if we create enough interest and intrigue and resonance and trust and all the beautiful things that Story do for us, if we do that well, then they're going to click on that call to action. So good. So after you sent me and you were so kind because you slacked me and you said, here's this thing. And I immediately slacked you back. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is a million dollar offer. You're like, I know I'm going to bring it up. Right. I was like, Oh, good. And so then you also sent me a loom of what you were putting together, like what yours look like in all the different pieces, which was super helpful. So we have this in process in the background. I don't have it applied as of the time that we're recording this, Hopefully by the time this goes live, maybe it will be up and everybody can see. But yours is up. So I've just been like stalking your Instagram. It's like looking at the 15, right? Understanding it. And I can see because you've taught me so much about the StoryBrand framework. I can see where it all fits in and how it is really a mini sales page. Basically, it kind of like walks someone through the steps that I'm like, Oh, that's this section on the sales page or this section on the sales page that you've taught me about. So it's really brilliant. So I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind like walking us through, but Or if it's not all 15, maybe like the highlights of what the grid should include, or if they buy the freedom 15, what they will get, like what you will help them achieve. Definitely. And, and I think for many people, it's, it's hard to envision just until, you know, you saw it, it really clicked for you. And so if you want to check my grid out, you can go to red door design. No S at the end, just R E D D O O R D E S I G N and look at the grid. And when you do, you'll notice a nice balance of like visual storytelling and also clear messaging that really guide people through and pull people in. So, The first post is really an introduction to me as the guide in the story. So the, the way that I approach guide sections are less like about me, but it's more about me as it relates to you. And it's a nuanced shift, but it's a, it's a way more effective way to talk about me in a way that's going to help you really. understand if you want to work with me or not. And, and get a sense of if you want to work with me or if you resonate with me. And it's not so much about what I like to do on the weekends and my dog Henry and stuff like that. Right. Nothing wrong with that, but this is a different about section. So this is me. At the beginning of the story, stepping in as the guide and then to the right, it's really every story begins with a hero that has a problem. They don't know how to solve. So we want to start that out. That's the hook. That's how we pull them into this story. If they can relate to that problem, they are fully engaged. They're like, okay, this is me. Yes, totally. Yeah. And you all, you're going to need to go to her Instagram to see it, but it's very clear as she's explaining it, you'll, you'll connect the per description to the different posts. Which I love. And so definitely check it out and, you know, feel free to, to emulate it. Part of an important way that we step into this story as the guide is through empathy. And so of course we want to show that we know how to solve the problem. We want to show our authority in that. But true guides don't even need to brag or really, be boisterous about their authority. You know, when you've met someone who's a real expert at what they do, they actually lead with empathy rather than authority. And so you'll see there in the post right below my image. I get it not being able to find the right words is frustrating. So they're just leading in with really clear and simple empathy. So that's an important part of the story. And then I created layers and sliders in my post. So like each post is really meaty, but you can simplify that or make it more complex. People's eyes are really drawn to the middle post. And so that headshot of me in the middle and my core offer is right below that headshot of me. So you really want to make sure your core offer or the way that you want people to work with you the most is right there in the middle. That's going to feel good. Just like when people are taking. A multiple choice test, they're more likely to choose the middle option, option B, right? Because it just feels, feels good. It's nestled in between those things. So we want to be strategic about that. And then of course you do want to build authority and trust. This is outside of the story brand framework, but I've been on a bunch of different podcasts. And so I want to remind people like if you're a podcast person, here are some podcasts that will allow you to get to know me better. And also just building that authority. I mentioned before about the importance of the plan. And I show this in a couple of different ways. A three step plan is a really great way just to remind them it's not going to be as hard as you think it is. So underneath my core offer, I break it down. Here's how it works. Here's my signature process. And then in the right. In the picture to the right of that, I talk about the three step plan of engaging with me. So step one, schedule a call and I get into the three ways that you can work with me. The other thing that I've added in here in actually three different other areas, I really wanted to feature The transformation that I provide for my clients, but people believe what other people say about you more than they believe what you say about you. So me talking about what I can do only goes so far. Yeah. And so I've created a few. different posts because that trust is such an important thing to double down on of testimonials, things that clients have said, and I've even included video testimonials, which we all know people love to absorb content through videos. So if you have video testimonials, great, add them in there and then create a beautiful, you know, cover image for those testimonials. Yeah, like there's one right here that I can see. I mean, I, I see my testimony, which is awesome. And then I see even like a video of Donald Miller talking about you and how amazing you are. So yeah, yeah. So a lot of people come to me after reading the book, building a story brand, they get partway through it, you know, they get partway through it and they're like, okay, I'm on board. I'm going to try this and then they try it and they feel frustrated they can't do it themselves. And so a lot of the people that I work with, like they're cringing because they don't have the right words on their website or on their sales page. And I call them the cringers. The other people I work with are called the drivers and they're just so busy working in their business that they can't, they're not really, they don't have the bandwidth to work On their business. Yeah. Yeah. And then the third type of people that I work with, I call the noodlers. And those are the people that are up on YouTube, you know, on a weekend night trying to tweak and fine tune and tweak and fine tune and find that thing that's really going to make their business work and be more effective. No matter which one you are, ultimately your words are not effectively helping you grow and getting you more clients. And so, people get turned on to building a story brand, they read part of the book, and then they get frustrated or fed up, and then they reach out to me. So for me, having a testimonial from Donald Miller is a really important way to build that trust, and so that deserved kind of its own spot in the Freedom Committee. Totally, totally makes sense. Yeah. And then the other piece of the Freedom 15 is really that freebie, like how can you help your clients or your potential clients get to know you better, build a little authority, but also help provide a mini win for them that helps them find success and also makes them much more likely to want to work with you. So I have my freebie on here as its own post. I love it. And this just makes me think I wouldn't have thought to do it this way. There's so many people who post grab my free thing, but this is a totally different way of doing that because it is seated in all of this other stuff that really, I don't even know. I can't even articulate the right words here, but it is. It's selling them on what you're already providing in a way that's just like when someone looks at this, they're already going to be sold in my opinion, just by looking at the format of your Instagram grid, because clearly you know what you're doing. Right? Just, it's just such a beautiful example of what you do and it's laid out and it's gorgeous. It's all in your branding. It all, it's, it walks you through a journey almost like I'm clicking on these just as you're talking to this. Oh yeah, yes, that's my problem. And then yes, yes, that's what I want. Oh, Right. The Cringer. Right? I'm like, I can see my, myself walking through this exact process in all of these posts. So it's almost like you take us on a journey throughout this. Right. Right. You're really telling, you're really telling a story just as on your homepage or your sales page as they begin at the top of the page and scroll down your page, you're taking them on a journey. You're telling your story as well. And what's. doubly powerful as this is like the one to punch. So they're going to go stock you quickly on Instagram. Then they're going to go stock you on your website, right? Right. So the beautiful thing is you don't have to create two stories. You've got one story. That is showing up on your sales page or homepage and you've got one story that you've got the same story that you're telling on Instagram and because they're cohesive and aligned, it makes people feel good. It makes you more memorable and they're like, Oh, this. Woman or man is clear about the work they do, and they're really showing up as a guide. They're showing here, both on the Freedom 15 and on their, on their website, that they care about the hero. They care about the hero's problem. They care about the hero's success more than they care about themselves. Yeah. And that's really all we really care about, right? It's like at the end of the day, what we really care about is ourselves, right? Right. And that's not a bad thing. That is just human evolution. And, and I think I tell people, you know, when people land on your website or when people land on your Instagram, they're asking themselves three questions. What's in it for me? What's in it for me? And what's in it for me? That's so good. And it's so true. I was expecting different questions. I was like, oh really? Three? But you're right. It's all the same. That's all we really care about at the end of the day. Like, when do I get on this? Yeah. Yeah. So good. Yeah. So we have these testimonials, we have the freebie, and then I'm guessing there is one in here about the, what if you don't, do we have that? Is there a post about that too, like the constant inaction? Yes. That's baked into one of the posts. So there's not a leader with that, but one thing I want to talk about here is the final three posts. Okay. Okay. Okay. are a very clear call to action. So this is where you make a visual statement. And like, I would liken this to like a billboard. If you're on the freeway, you've got a lot of billboards and they're very, very simple. And so the whole goal of this is to help them Take that next step. Whatever that step is to work with you. And so I've created three posts at the bottom that are a visual break between my freedom 15 and all my other posts. Now, what I'm going to do is remove all the posts below that because Oh, you are. Okay. I am. You don't have to. It can always just sit up on top of your years of posting, right? And if you want, but I'm going to delete all the previous posts because I just want that simplicity of the Freedom 15. I also reviewed all my other posts like over the years and I was like, there's nothing in these posts that isn't already part of the Freedom 15. Oh my gosh, yes, years of posting and it's all now concisely in this little nutshell of a story that somebody can get a sense of me in 30 seconds or they can sit with Freedom 15, dig around, poke around and really get to know me even better. Yeah. And I love your call to action is to book your money making message call, which I love. What I love about the way you've done it is it you're like you said, it's in the three and it's, it's hard to articulate it because we're on a podcast, which we're verbalizing, but you really need to just go to her grid to see it. But it's so clear. I'd like. Stands out of I mean, it like jumps out of the page when you look at it. It's very clear what the next step is or what the call to action is. Right. And I don't think I've ever seen any kind of Instagram grid or post or anything that is quite this, like. I haven't seen something jump out like this before, so the way you've done it is just amazing and totally typical of you. Of course, I'm like, Oh my gosh. So one thing that you said that I want to just reiterate to everyone, please hear what Neill said. I know that some of you are going to be like, Oh my gosh, and this is just more work for me to do, but I want everybody to hear that. She said, it. It's the same as the story that you're telling on your website or your sales page. They're the same. So you're just almost like taking in my mind. I'm like, okay, I'm just going to take the story branch because we redid 10 hour a week and the story brand framework, that sales page. I'm just going to take that. And I'm basically just going to create my 15 out of that. It's already there. It's already there. I don't have to. I don't have to really do anything except just create the camera. Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So smart. Yeah. So I interrupted you a lot throughout this. No, you didn't. Unfortunately. So, I mean, like funny level, like highlight, what are the, you know, soundbites of the main post that we need to have in this read on 15? Yeah. So just in a nutshell, you want to really identify the character, the hero, who are you working with? You really want to articulate their problem, take the time to articulate their problem, show them a vision of what success looks like after they've worked with you, not working with you features. We're talking about benefits in their benefits that they're going to experience in their life. Okay. Then you want to introduce yourself as the guide using mostly empathy and some authority. And you want to give them a very clear three step plan to show them it's not going to be overwhelming to get the result that they're looking for. Yeah. One of the things that you can copy directly from my page is that very clear call to action. So yeah, the call to action is so important. There's a reason that it takes up three posts. Now it looks a little funky, but you can upload them all at the same time. If someone's looking in their feed, nobody has said anything to me, but eventually I did it all at one time. So. Make sure your call to action is clear. Make sure you have one call to action. What do you, what's the one thing you want them to do next after they've gone to your Instagram page? Also, you want to help them avoid, show them that you're going to help them avoid failure. So those are some of the key Components. I think the other thing that I haven't mentioned is really building that trust with testimonials, and I have three different testimonial sections, but you can have one, you can have to, you know, make it your own. It's not a rigid framework. It's meant to adapt and to be customized for your own business. I love it. I love it. So hopefully everybody goes and just stops your Instagram or she's going to get all kinds of new followers. It's going to be awesome. Yeah. But I can already hear people saying that sounds amazing, but it feels like a lot and I'm not very good at the story, brand and framework. And I actually reread the whole story brand book before we got on this call because I wanted to just explain. Dive in and make sure I understood the formula really well and I had that clear in my mind. And so if somebody wants help doing this, because really if you think about this, like this is a great way to create time. You do this one time and for the rest of the year, you just let that grid do what it's supposed to do for you. Right? Right. So if they wanted. Your help in doing this, how could they do that? All you have to do is go to my website, red door designs. com. That's R E D D O O R D E S I G N S. com. And there you'll find. Link to get the freedom 15, I'm going to provide you with templates and guidance. I'm going to help you map out the overview of your plan and then give you templates to really create each and every post. So go ahead and go to my website and check it out. You can get it there. The other thing I wanted to share is that A lot of people ask me, well, what about, what if I want to post, you know, or what if I have a certain event that I really want to share? And oh, that's a great question, actually. Yeah. And the reality is reels are great for that. So reels are going to engage new people. You can post on reels without it. Like messing up your grid stories are the same way so you can nurture your current audience with stories and there's all kinds of proof that show that it's really reels and stories are what how people want to engage with you so you don't have to do reels and stories but if you want to, you certainly can do that all you want, you can do it whenever you feel inspired to do it or you cannot do it. It's. Totally up to you, but you know that your Instagram page and your grid is just there ready and willing and operating on all cylinders to convert those clients. That's, I love that because that gives you the freedom and the flexibility, right? Instead of that obligatory feeling like, Oh, I gotta go do my bones. It's Oh, I feel inspired to share this, or I wanted to just let my audience know it's just such a different way of approaching it. Knowing you already have the framework set up there in your grid to take care of the stuff that you want to do, which is basically. Nurture her and warm people up and sell whatever it is that you want them to be taking the next action on Duke. So, so smart. I hadn't even thought about that, but thank you for bringing that up. Yeah. Yeah, of course. So I, if you, if you all want this, which I can't even imagine, I don't even know who's not going to want this. Certainly we will put in the show notes, the link to all the things. So we'll link up to Neill's Instagram account. So you can go look at what she's done, which is beautiful and amazing. We'll link up to the URL for you to get the freedom 15 and be able to use this exact process that Neill is coming up with. We're also going to link up to Neill's signature program copy that sells in case you want to take this work and expand it, which is really designing a sales page that is your top seller. Right. For your programs, which is in two and a half hours. And I can attest to the fact that it didn't even take two and a half hours. It was faster than that. This is really mind blowing. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you, we all have a lot on our plate. So the promise is copy that sells or story brand copy that sells in 2. 5 hours flat, and that's at the max, right? So it's a done for you service where I write the copy for you. So you don't have to struggle with your own words and try and sift through it. All the beautiful things that are in your brain, often so much gold in your brain and often lots of clutter too. And so I really know how to pull that story out of you. And if you did go through Copy That Sells with me, Then you would really have the story to translate that into your own freedom. 15. Yeah. Which is exactly what I'm doing. Cause I've done work with you. I feel so grateful. Cause I'm like, okay, I at least understand you've trained me really well. I understand all these different pieces, but I still, I'm going to go by the freedom 15 because you include the templates and you, it's just going to make it faster and easier for me. So I can't wait to get my hands on that again, my up and up and going. Neill, thank you so much for sharing this. I just, once you told me about it, I was like, Oh my gosh, it's like one of those things. I'm just like, I have to tell everybody about it because it's so amazing. I'm so, I'm so happy. I knew it would resonate with you because you are like the epitome of less is more, keep it simple. And this offer is really aligned with that too. It really is. And it really is the answer to something that I hear so much from my clients, which is I don't want to do posting. I don't want to create Instagram. Do I have to be on social media? The answer is no. But if you did want to have a presence there, like Neill is saying, the reality is a lot of people try and figure out if, you know, we're right fit for them by going to or the social media platforms. So this is a really efficient way of getting that done. And then really like setting it and forgetting it for the year. Right. Right. And, oh, you bring up a good point. You could set it and forget it for more than a year. You could also keep those posts handy in a folder, you know, somewhere on your computer. And you could repost them in six months if you wanted to, or if you had a new core offer, right? So it's, it's there to work with you. It doesn't mean that you're trapped into a year long commitment with this. But like for me, I've been doing the work long enough that I know, like, I'll probably set it and forget it for, Two, three years. Cause I know my core offers really aren't going to change. It's meant to give you the freedom that you want as much freedom as you want, but make it your own and have fun with it. So good. Thank you so much for being willing to share this on the show with everyone. I so appreciate it. Oh, you're welcome. It was really fun. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Success Genius. I truly hope you found the content valuable and inspiring. My mission with Success Genius is to provide you the ambitious entrepreneur with the tools, strategies, and mindsets necessary for achieving success in a healthy and sustainable way. I'm dedicated to helping you balance your entrepreneurial aspirations with a vibrant and fulfilling life and lifestyle. If you found value in today's episode, here's how you can support this mission. Subscribe to Success Genius. By subscribing, you'll have all of our latest episodes and insights right at your fingertips. Leave us a rating and review. Your feedback is invaluable to us. It helps us improve and it helps fellow entrepreneurs find our show. Let's grow this community of success geniuses together. And share the episode with a friend, colleague, or loved one. If you think today's episode could help someone you know, Please don't hesitate to share it. The ripple effect of knowledge can have a powerful impact. As we conclude this episode, remember that as entrepreneurs, we're all on this journey together. Supporting each other's growth and wellbeing is one of the most significant ways we can achieve greatness. I know how very valuable your time and attention is, so I want to thank you for spending some of it today with me and this show. Together, we can spread the message of healthy success to our kids, our friends, our neighbors and our communities. Thank you for being a part of this. I couldn't do it without you. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/mobile-menu ### Title: Mobile Menu ### Page ID: 5059443 ### Content: Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/free-resources-copy ### Title: Free Resources Copy ### Page ID: 5063222 ### Content: # Write Compelling Copy in 5 minutes! #### **FREE VIDEO >> STOP MISSING SALES WITH MEDIOCRE COPY** #### Communicate Your Value #### Simplify Your Marketing #### Know It's Done Right #### WATCH FREE TRAINING # Brand Your Way # to Freedom #### Learn how to: #### Congrats! # 8 brain-science principles behind websites that sell​ #### **Simple changes you can make to your website to start making money tomorrow.** #### Gain actionable insights to: #### Congrats! #### SHORT VIDEO TRAINING & GUIDE # Headshot & Website Photoshoots Made Easy #### **Get the photos you need to:** #### Congrats! # Building A StoryBrand Overview # Blog Posts Get the right words to earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. You have taken the first step to making your website your most powerful marketing tool.  You have taken the first step to making your website your most powerful marketing tool.  You have taken the first step to making your website your most powerful marketing tool.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - **Create wealth with ease** - **Spend time on what matters** - **Make your greatest impact** - skyrocket revenue - attract the right clients - make smarter marketing decisions - Stand out as an expert in your field - Build immediate trust with leads - Attract leads that can afford you - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/book ### Title: Buy The Book ### Page ID: 5081389 ### Content: #### Attract Ideal Clients #### Simplify Your Marketing #### Command Premium Rates How to Easily Create a Story-Driven Website that Turns Visitors into Clients Learn a proven strategy for a simple website that converts visitors into clients while you sleep Create a powerful hub that eliminates endless content creation and works for you 24/7 Turn your expertise into clear, compelling copy that builds trust and justifies higher pricing **How to Easily Create a Story-Driven Website that Turns Visitors into Clients** *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-mikki ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Mikki ### Page ID: 5219363 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt hesitant to share your website because it didn’t truly represent you? ## "It felt too good to be true, and yet is was true! I wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own. ## If only I had invested in myself sooner. Now that I have the right words, I'm way more confident — and I use those words in everything I do!" #### –Mikki Gardner, Coach **That's exactly where Mikki found herself, with a website that felt more like a liability than an asset.** Mikki's website wasn't reflective of her or her business; it lacked accurate information and she felt embarrassed to direct people there. The impact on her business was significant, as she actively avoided showcasing her online presence. When Mikki and I connected, she had been struggling to perfect her messaging on her own. Nothing seemed to click, which is when she took a leap of faith. "When you offered to write it for me, it felt too good to be true," Mikki shared. It turned out to be the transformation she needed. Our collaboration rejuvenated her website. Not only did we align the messaging with her true self, but the entire process was designed to be stress-free and empowering. Mikki particularly appreciated how the bite-sized videos guided her through each step. The completion of her website was a pivotal moment for Mikki. She was thrilled with the final product, noting, "The wireframe was so helpful to visualize and believe in the potential of what it could look like." This wasn’t just a relief—it was a revelation. Now, she's eager for everyone to see her website, which is clear in her confident approach to every sales call, Instagram post, and podcast episode. **If you're still on the fence, consider Mikki’s thoughts...** **"*It's a no-brainer... It's such a gift to have someone guide you effortlessly through the process.*"** Let's turn your website from a source of stress into a source of pride. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let's start crafting a site that truly represents you and your unique message. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-thomas ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Thomas ### Page ID: 5240962 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt like your business story was missing something, but you couldn't quite put your finger on it? ## "The clarity helped me take my foot off the breaks and accelerate. ## Before Kris, I kept second guessing myself and the story I was trying to write - like writers block. ## I was too close to my own work and Kris provided the perspective I needed to communicate clearly. Now I'm reinvigorated about my business!" #### –Thomas Stelter, Coach **Let me share a story about Thomas Stelter, an innovative entrepreneur who discovered that what he needed wasn't harder work on his messaging—it was a fresh perspective.** Thomas and his team were trying to refine their business's narrative on their own. At first, the process seemed productive. They tried to cut out unnecessary elements, but soon they found themselves facing a creative block. "We couldn't see or hear our message as if it was the first time anymore," Thomas told me. That's when he realized they needed external help. Enter my Signature StorySelling System. Together, we didn't just tweak words—we transformed Thomas’s entire approach to storytelling. We stripped back the clutter and brought simplicity and clarity to his message, aligning his team and giving new life to their mission. The results were more profound than either of us anticipated. "It wasn't just about having better copy," Thomas observed. "It became a tool for revisiting our entire business plan." This new clarity relieved a lot of stress for his team and set a clear direction for their future endeavors. **If Thomas’s story resonates with you—if you find yourself struggling to articulate the core of your business or spending too much time trying to perfect your story—it might be time to bring in a new perspective.** I invite you to book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me. Let's discuss how we can clarify your business narrative and align your messaging to your mission, just like we did for Thomas. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-molly ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Molly ### Page ID: 5241005 ### Content: ## Ever found yourself staring at your sales page, wondering if it truly captures the essence of your offer? ## "Clients are already sold before I get on the phone with them. ## It was so easy for me because Kris did the heavy lifting. And yet, I was engaged in just enough to make sure the copy truly was aligned with my voice." #### –Molly Claire, Coach **Let me tell you about Molly, a client who was in the same boat.** Molly is an entrepreneur who is pretty good at writing her own sales copy. But when it came to launching her new program, she knew she needed something more than good—she needed outstanding. She wanted her sales page to be clear and flow well, so she reached out for help. Working together, we took Molly's initial draft and transformed it into a sales page that truly represented her and her program. The process was simple and step-by-step, designed to eliminate overwhelm. Molly appreciated how each step was clear and straightforward, making the complex task of crafting a perfect sales page seem easy. The result? Molly was thrilled with her new sales page. She gained a newfound confidence, knowing she had a solid, effective tool to engage her audience. Plus, she realized that this page could serve as a foundational marketing tool for her business going forward. **If you find yourself juggling too many tasks and worrying about whether your sales page is good enough, imagine how relieving it would be to check that off your list. Think about all the mental space and energy you'd save.** Ready to transform your sales page? Book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let's create a page that not only meets but exceeds your expectations. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-shonda ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Shonda ### Page ID: 5241015 ### Content: ## Ever found yourself questioning, "Am I doing this right?" when looking at your marketing materials? ## "I felt really seen and heard throughout the process. ## I felt a lot lighter. Like, whew, that load is off my back and now I can really get to the work of helping others (and not being bogged down with marketing)." #### –Shondra, Coach **Let me share Shonda's story with you—she was exactly where you are before we transformed her overwhelm into crystal clear confidence.** Shonda was struggling with self-doubt, bogged down by her own extensive knowledge and passion, which came out as overwhelming and wordy when she tried to communicate it. "I am really wordy, and it’s just information overload for people," she confessed. This resulted in her true message getting lost, and her feeling unsure about how effectively she was reaching her audience. Recognizing she needed more than just a copywriter, Shonda sought a partner who could help refine and express her message in a way that truly resonated with her audience. Working together, we focused on distilling the essence of her message, making sure it not only represented who she was but also connected authentically with her intended audience. Shonda described the transformation: "What you helped me do was really show the best of me, but in how that relates to others." This collaboration did more than just improve her marketing copy; it fundamentally changed how she felt about her business. Shonda shared, "After we refined my copy, I felt so proud and confident. I was eager to show it off to everyone." This newfound confidence permeated every aspect of her operations, enhancing her presence on social media and her effectiveness in networking. Beyond the immediate benefits, Shonda found joy in the journey of self-discovery and gained strategic insights about her business that she had previously overlooked. "I learned things about my business that I didn't know before," she revealed, highlighting that our work together was about much more than just words—it was about uncovering deeper truths that would guide her going forward. **If you find yourself resonating with Shonda's experience and are still on the fence, her advice is clear: *"Jump, get off that fence. It’s so worth it."*** Are you ready to transform your overwhelm into confidence like Shonda? Let's talk. Book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today and discover how you can clarify your message and make the impact you truly desire. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-mary ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Mary ### Page ID: 5241041 ### Content: ## Imagine having a deep passion for your work but struggling to communicate it effectively on your website. ## "All the things that were foggy became clear. ## I was worried if I hired someone, they wouldn't be able to capture my essence. But the process allowed me to express myself online in a heartfelt and genuine way. It was astounding! #### –Mary Huang, Wellness Practitioner **That was the reality for Mary Huang, a dedicated Chinese medicine practitioner and acupuncturist, before we started working together.** Mary knew what she wanted to share but found translating that into a structured, clear website overwhelming. "I just was scattered and unclear," she admitted. Her fear was that seeking professional help would strip away the personal touch that defined her practice. "I don't want to lose that essence, that heart," she expressed, concerned about diluting her genuine connection with patients. Our collaboration was a game-changer. Together, we created a structure that allowed her to channel her authentic voice without compromise. "You gave me structure... It's about their story, not just mine," Mary discovered. This shift wasn't just about showcasing her qualifications; it was about resonating with her patients' needs and experiences. The transformation was profound. Mary found clarity and a newfound ability to communicate her message in digestible, impactful pieces. "I started to all the things that were foggy and unclear... suddenly had a place," she said. This clarity not only improved her website but also enhanced how she interacted with her clients across all platforms. Now, Mary's new website is a true reflection of her practice and her purpose. "It was exactly how I wanted to express myself," she reflected. **If you're on the fence about whether to take a similar step, Mary's unequivocal advice is: *"Absolutely no qualms whatsoever. Work with Kris."*** Let's transform your professional fears into your greatest strengths. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let's start the journey toward a website that truly represents your passion and purpose. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-scot ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Scot ### Page ID: 5242069 ### Content: ## Imagine being deeply committed to your business, yet feeling that your website falls short of expressing the unique value you provide. ## "YES, it's working! She hit the home run I hoped for. ## I may (or may not) have shed some tears when I saw my Story come together. There's a real comfort and confidence having everything aligned and cohesive. ## My practice grew to the point where I needed to bring on a partner, which was my ultimate goal." #### –Scot Sullivan, Medical Practitioner **This was exactly where Scott found himself—an experienced professional whose website was stuck in the past, making it a challenge rather than a channel to connect with clients.** Scott's website was filled with outdated content and lacked a clear message about his services. Every time he referred someone to it, he felt like he had to apologize for its state. "It was embarrassing and unprofessional," Scott admitted. This was not just a minor inconvenience; it was actively hindering his ability to attract and engage the right clients. Realizing the disconnect between the quality of his services and the quality of his website, Scott reached out to me. Together, we embarked on a comprehensive transformation of his online presence, not just updating the look, but redefining the entire messaging to align with his professional ethos using my Signature StorySelling System. The change was transformative. Scott’s website was revitalized into a vibrant, clear, and compelling hub that truly reflected his expertise and the depth of his services. "The new website wasn’t just a refresh; it was a complete turnaround that finally felt like me," said Scott. He now shares his website confidently, knowing it effectively communicates his unique value and attracts the right clientele. **With the new website in place, Scott noticed an immediate improvement in client engagement. His professional image was enhanced, making interactions smoother and more fruitful. *"Now, I’m proud to direct people to my site. It does so much of the heavy lifting for me," he noted.*** If you see a bit of your own struggles in Scott’s story, let’s connect. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let’s start turning your website into a powerful asset that reflects the best of your business. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-bill ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Bill ### Page ID: 5242087 ### Content: ## Ever felt like your website's messaging just doesn't line up with the quality of services you provide? ## "I have peace of mind with a clear plan to ensure my growth continues. ## My site was a muddled mess that was undermining my credibility. It was embarrassing. Kris saved me from many ineffective rabbit holes. She helped me avoid mistakes I would have made because I just didn't know. ## Now I feel a sense of pride about my website. I have peace of mind with a clear plan in place to ensure my growth continues. ## Have her as a trusted advisor and a brilliant thought partner was the very best thing I could have done for my business." #### –Bill Zipp, Coach & Consultant  **That was exactly the situation Bill Zipp found himself in—a consultant with a strong professional background but a website that simply didn't showcase his expertise effectively.** Bill's initial struggle was real. His website's messaging was unclear, unprofessional, and cluttered with too many calls to action, leaving his potential clients confused and uncertain. This lack of coherence was not just a nuisance; it was actively damaging his credibility as a consultant. Recognizing the need for change, Bill sought a thought partner who could more than just redesign a webpage—he needed someone who could understand and amplify his professional voice. That's when he turned to me. Together, we didn't just tweak the old content; we completely reinvented his online presence. Our collaboration was transformative. We developed a brand that Bill could be truly proud of, which aligned perfectly with his vision and values. From the color scheme to the photography, and most importantly, the messaging, every element was carefully crafted to reflect the highest standard of his work. The impact was immediate and profound. Bill now feels a strong sense of pride and satisfaction when viewing his website, knowing it accurately expresses his professional values and effectively communicates the essence of his services to his audience. This renewed confidence has not only enhanced his professional interactions but has opened up new avenues for business growth that he had previously not considered. **Bill's story is a powerful testament to the impact of well-crafted messaging.**  If you're facing similar challenges with your online presence, let's talk. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let's start transforming your website into a compelling representation of your unique professional identity. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-mike ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Michael ### Page ID: 5242090 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt like you're attracting all the wrong clients? ## "I'm charging 6X more for the exact same service. ## I was not making enough, burning out and about to close the doors of my business - so investing in Kris was a big leap. ## I know what to do, but she helped me communicate it in a simple way that resonated with my ideal clients. ## Now that my business is cohesive and aligned from the inside out, I show up more confidently and our clients see us in a more elevated way. I even have a sense of swagger about my brand. ## Within just a few weeks, my pipeline filled up and my revenue was 40% higher than my previous highest month! ## If you're struggling to reach your target market or command the price point you know you deserve, Red Door is the perfect fit." #### –Michael King, Coach **Michael King, a seasoned consultant, was in exactly that predicament. Despite his expertise, he kept drawing early-stage startups that couldn't afford his rates, which drastically affected his revenue and job satisfaction.** Michael's turning point came when he realized he needed a drastic change in how he presented his brand. He decided to work with me after learning about my Signature StorySelling System. Initially hesitant because of the investment and the new approach, Michael's decision to move forward was a game-changer for his business. Together, we dove deep into redefining Michael's brand identity. The process wasn't just about tweaking a website or updating a logo—it was about crafting a message that resonated deeply with his ideal clientele. The transformation was profound. "She put a lot of thought into this," Michael said, reflecting on the new branding guide I created for him, which meticulously aligned his online presence with his business goals. The impact? Michael's business started attracting the right kind of clients—those who recognized and could afford the value he offered. "I'm literally today charging six times more for the exact same product and service," he told me, a testament to how aligning his brand with his market could significantly boost his bottom line. **More than just improving his financials, this shift brought Michael a new level of professional fulfillment. He now works with clients who energize and inspire him, reducing his hours while enhancing both satisfaction and profitability. *"All of those problems pretty much evaporated overnight,"* he shared, appreciating how the clear, compelling messaging revolutionized his business operations.** If Michael’s story strikes a chord with you, why not discover how the Signature StorySelling System can revolutionize your business too? Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let's craft a brand message that attracts the right clients and reflects your true value. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-jason ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Jason ### Page ID: 5242634 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt that your website just doesn't reflect who you are or the depth of your expertise? ## "A comprehensive service at this price point is rare. ## I used to avoid sending people to my website. Now it's the first place I send them because I have confidence in my messaging. I use the same story every single place I appear online including social media, Linked In, my email signature and more!" #### –Jason Burby, Coach  **That was exactly the problem Jason Burby was facing. Despite his success as a coach, his online presence didn’t capture the essence of his work or speak effectively to his potential clients.** Jason's initial hesitation to direct potential clients to his site was a big concern—it just didn’t communicate his services effectively. Realizing the disconnect, he reached out to me for help. Working together through my Signature StorySelling System, we didn't just tweak Jason’s words; we transformed how his story was told. We focused on aligning his website with his true voice and the core of his coaching philosophy, ensuring it resonated with his ideal clients. The transformation was profound. Jason’s new website became a cornerstone for his business, actively used in his marketing efforts and perfectly aligned with his vision. Now, he shares his website confidently, knowing it’s a true reflection of his professionalism and passion. **The outcome? Jason now enjoys increased engagement from website visitors who quickly turn into consultations. He's thrilled with a site that not only looks professional but also genuinely represents him and attracts the right clientele.** If you find Jason’s story inspiring and are ready to align your website with the heart of your business, let’s connect. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let’s explore how you can transform your website into your most powerful business tool. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-lisa ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Lisa ### Page ID: 5242635 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the prospect of launching your business online? ## "There's no one better to work with in this business. ## The most delightful part of the process is working with Kris herself. There is no one like Kris Jones. She will understand the essence of your business, like she did mine and she will create a beautiful product that has resonance with clients. And she'll do it in a way that's full of joy, play and beauty." #### –Lisa Hunefeld, Coach **That’s exactly where Lisa Hunefeld found herself before we teamed up to transform her online presence.** Lisa was starting her new business and felt swamped by the challenge of making her work visible and ensuring her message resonated with her mission. She described feeling like she was "underwater," overwhelmed by the magnitude of what she needed to communicate. Knowing my ability to blend joy, playfulness, and beauty into messaging, Lisa reached out to me for help. We had worked together before in a corporate setting, so she was confident in my approach. "There is no one like Kris Jones," she said, trusting in my ability to capture the essence of her business and showcase it beautifully. The transformation was both rapid and profound. I designed her website to not only capture her unique value but also to make it visually striking. To Lisa's delight, the entire site was up and running within a day—far quicker than she had anticipated, which speaks to the efficiency and understanding I bring to my projects. Post-launch, Lisa's business didn't just gain visibility—it thrived. She quickly began attracting new clients who were previously unaware of her work, significantly expanding her reach. This not only boosted her business but also helped fulfill her mission on a larger scale. **Lisa now feels a renewed sense of pride and empowerment. Her advice to others contemplating the same journey? *"She will help you understand her process, and if it feels like a fit, there is no one better to work with in this business,”* she recommends confidently.** If Lisa’s story inspires you and you're ready to ensure your business communicates its core message effectively while captivating your audience, schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today. Let's explore how the Signature StorySelling System can elevate your business just like Lisa’s. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-holly ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Holly ### Page ID: 5242654 ### Content: ## Have you ever cringed when sending someone to your website? ## "I have such a sense of calm knowing it's done right. ## I love StoryBrand but found it really hard to implement on my own. Kris made it easy! Now, having a website that's doing the heavy lifting for us is just so calming - and our waitlist is filling up." #### –Holly Haines, Coach **Holly Haines sure did. Her site was supposed to highlight her incredible services, but instead, it was a cluttered mess that left visitors confused and overwhelmed.** That's when Holly reached out to me. She knew something had to change if she wanted her business to grow. Together, we dove into my Signature StorySelling System to strip away the confusion and create a clear, inviting online presence. We simplified Holly’s message to make it punchy and attractive. Our goal was clear: transform her website from a source of stress to a source of pride. And that’s exactly what we did. Holly’s new website now speaks directly to her ideal clients and clearly presents her services. The transformation was a game-changer for Holly. Not only does her website look fantastic, but it also works efficiently to bring her new clients. She's added two to three new people to her waitlist every week since the update. Now, Holly is excited to share her website, knowing it perfectly represents her and her business. **Now, Holly is excited to share her website, knowing it perfectly represents her and her business.** If your website isn’t performing as it should, don’t settle. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me, and let’s turn your site into a powerful asset that grows your business. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-neill ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Neill ### Page ID: 5242655 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt like you have so much to offer, but just can't get your message to resonate with your audience? ## "I made 93K in the last 3 months with my Story! ## This was literally the answer to my prayers. I finally have words that resonate with my ideal client and increase conversions. Having Kris by my side and not having to do it alone made it so efficient." #### –Neill Williams, Coach **That’s exactly where Neill Williams was before we started working together.** Neill knew she had a valuable offer that could genuinely help people, yet she struggled to communicate this effectively. Her potential clients couldn’t grasp the incredible benefits of her services, leaving both parties frustrated and Neill feeling undervalued. Determined to turn things around, Neill decided to collaborate with me using the Signature StorySelling System. Our goal? To transform her scattered thoughts into a clear, compelling message that her audience could not only understand but would be drawn to. Together, we delved deep into her offer, pinpointing exactly where her messaging was missing the mark. Through thoughtful questions and strategic planning, we crafted new copy that spoke directly to the hearts and needs of her clients. The new messaging had an immediate impact. Neill started to see a significant uptick in engagement and conversions. Clients were not just coming through the door; they were the right clients—those who truly needed what Neill had to offer and were ready to commit. **Neill was thrilled with the result: *"The process not only clarified my offer but made me fall in love with my own business all over again,"* she shared excitedly.** If you find yourself in a similar situation as Neill, where you know you have value to add but can’t seem to communicate it effectively, let’s talk. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today. We'll refine your message to reflect the true value of your work and ensure it connects with the people who need to hear it most. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrea ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Andrea ### Page ID: 5242692 ### Content: ## Ever felt like you're not fully conveying the value you bring to the table? ## "More clarity = I'm closing 95% of my sales calls. ## Crafting my Signature Story helped me get clear in my own mind about what I do and how I do it. It's boosted my confidence and made me feel like an expert." #### –Andrea Giles, Coach **Andrea felt the same before we teamed up to transform her messaging. Discover how the Signature StorySelling System helped Andrea turn her uncertainties into a powerful, client-attracting narrative that truly represents her expertise.** Andrea offered tremendous value through her coaching but struggled to communicate it effectively. This not only made attracting the right clients difficult but also made her question her own skills. "I kept getting stuck," she confessed, feeling frustrated despite repeated efforts to refine her message. Recognizing the need for expert help, Andrea reached out to me. She needed someone who could not only understand her vision but also express it in a way that was clear and engaging. Our collaboration marked a pivotal change for Andrea. We started with deep, reflective questions that helped her gain clarity about her services. I then transformed her insights into compelling, persuasive copy that resonated deeply with her target audience. The clarity we achieved together dramatically improved her business. Andrea's consultation close rate jumped from 30-40% to an impressive 85-90%. "Now, I can communicate more precisely, making clients feel confident to buy," she shared, thrilled by the impact of our work. Today, Andrea is not just a coach; she's a confident expert in her field, empowered by a clear understanding and articulation of her business value. This transformation has allowed her to focus more on what she loves—helping her clients thrive. **Andrea’s message to anyone facing similar challenges is clear: *"It's the best investment. The clarity and confidence you gain are invaluable, not just for your business but for your self-perception as well."*** If Andrea's story strikes a chord with you and you're ready to redefine your professional message, I invite you to schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me. Let’s explore how you can achieve similar success with the Signature StorySelling System. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-molly-2 ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Molly ### Page ID: 5242694 ### Content: ## Ever wondered why your sales page doesn't grab the attention it should? ## "Kris keeps it simple and every step felt easy. ## I was really happy with the Story we crafted and have been using it in every area of my business. That box is checked on having a solid, clear sales page that works. Also, seeing how she runs her business has helped me simplify how I run mine." #### –Molly Claire, Coach **That was Molly's challenge before we teamed up. She had a fantastic program but felt her sales page just wasn't doing justice to what she could offer.** Molly had put together a program called 'Create Your Killer' which she knew had huge potential. However, the sales page fell flat every time. It was packed with information but somehow failed to connect with her ideal clients on an emotional level. Recognizing she needed help to harness the true power of her offer, Molly reached out to me. Working with Molly was all about tapping into the essence of what made her program unique and ensuring her sales page reflected this. We didn't just tweak a few lines here and there; we dove deep. Together, we reshaped her sales message to truly speak to her audience, focusing on how her program could transform their lives, not just inform them about the features. The change was dramatic. Not only did the new sales page resonate deeply with her prospects, but it also reignited Molly’s confidence in her offer. She went from hesitating to share her site to featuring it prominently in every bio and social media post. The clarity and vibrancy of her sales message began to attract the right people—those who were ready to engage and eager to sign up. **The results spoke for themselves. Clients started coming into consultations already convinced they wanted to be part of what Molly was offering, thanks to the compelling and honest message on her revamped sales page. This shift not only improved her conversion rates but also made her sales process much smoother and more enjoyable.** If Molly's story resonates with you, and you're looking to transform your sales page from a static piece of content into a dynamic client conversion tool, let's talk. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let's see how we can make your sales page work as hard as you do. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-dana ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Dana ### Page ID: 5242710 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt like you're struggling to convey the real value of your services clearly? ## "Kris helped me go farther, faster with the right Story. ## When I saw my Story it was like, *'yes, this is me in words'* and I didn't have those words until now. It was really freeing and rewarding." #### –Dana Byers, Coach **That's exactly where Dana found herself before we started working together. Despite her expertise and passion, Dana's message to potential clients felt scattered and less impactful than she knew it could be.** Recognizing she needed expert help to refine her messaging, Dana turned to me. Known for my ability to deep dive into what makes a business tick and articulate it powerfully, I was thrilled to help Dana streamline her communication. Our collaboration was transformative. Through a series of targeted questions and strategic crafting, we refined Dana’s message to showcase her strengths and the unique value of her coaching. The new clarity didn't just affect her marketing materials; it fundamentally improved her confidence and the way she presented herself in every business interaction. The results were immediate and profound. Dana reported a noticeable increase in client engagement and higher conversion rates from her consultations. She found herself speaking more confidently and directly, qualities that resonated well with her clientele. **Moreover, Dana was able to repurpose the refined messaging across various platforms — from her website to social media, enhancing her overall marketing efficiency. This broader application mirrored the adaptability of a well-curated wardrobe, where each piece serves multiple looks, or in Dana's case, marketing needs.** If you're seeing a disconnect between the value you provide and the message you communicate, let's talk. Book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today. Let's refine your messaging to reflect the true value of your work and make every word count. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-mark ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Mark ### Page ID: 5242712 ### Content: ## Ever felt like your business messaging was missing a personal touch? ## "I'm more articulate and my confidence has grown. ## I couldn't really articulate what it was that I needed to say to bring my Story to life...which was really frustrating. Kris helped me do it in a way that was authentic and allowed me to become more articulate and confident with my clients. Now they can see the value of the work I provide. ## The psychology she interwove behind her approach was so fascinating." #### –Mark Colgan, Wealth Advisor **That's exactly where Mark was before we teamed up. Let's dive into how transforming his approach helped him connect deeply with his clients, making his services not only appealing but truly resonant.** Mark was great at what he did but struggled to express the emotional value behind his services. His messaging was too focused on the technical aspects, and potential clients couldn't see the real benefits of working with him. It was all facts and figures, and the human element was lost. Realizing the need for change, Mark reached out to work with me. He was looking for a way to infuse his communications with more heart, to truly connect with his clients on an emotional level. That’s where my Signature StorySelling System came into play. Together, we revamped his messaging. This wasn't just about tweaking a few lines; it was about creating narratives that captured the essence of his services and their impact on clients' lives. We crafted messages that spoke directly to his clients' needs, highlighting not just the "what" but the "why" and the "how" of his offerings. The results were immediate and striking. Mark's new approach resonated deeply, leading to more engaged and committed clients. Feedback was overwhelmingly positive, with clients now fully understanding and appreciating the value he provided. Our collaboration also unveiled the importance of psychology in messaging—how strategic word choice and design could significantly enhance client response and engagement. **Mark’s newfound confidence in his messaging has not only improved his client interactions but also boosted his overall business growth. He advises anyone on the fence about enhancing their business communications: *"Don’t wait. The impact on your client relationships and business success can be game-changing."*** If you’re ready to make your business messaging resonate more deeply with your clients, let’s schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call). Together, we can discover how to bring your unique value to life with messaging that truly connects. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-donald ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Donald ### Page ID: 5242730 ### Content: ## Have you ever been frustrated that marketing feels like a black box investment? ## "I love Kris Jones' work! ## Marketing should not be a black box investment. It won't be if you hire Kris." #### –Donald Miller, Author of Building a StoryBrand  **I’ve been fortunate enough to earn recognition from Donald Miller, the author of "Building a StoryBrand," for the effective way I implement his StoryBrand Strategy.** Donald appreciates how I get straight to the point and focus on what truly helps my clients grow. My goal is to make your marketing effective, ensuring that every dollar you invest really works for you. If you're looking to see tangible results from your marketing, I'm here to help. Using StoryBrand principles, I'll help you craft a clear and engaging message that really connects with your audience and turns them into loyal customers. If this sounds like what you need, let's hop on a call to talk about how my *Signature StorySelling System* can get you the results you're looking for. This system applies StoryBrand strategies to clarify your messaging and make it as impactful as possible. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let’s get started on getting you the clarity you deserve. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-brandy ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Brandy ### Page ID: 5242731 ### Content: ## Ever felt like you understand your work inside and out but struggle to explain it? ## "It was a miracle how she brought forth my purpose. Now I can share it with the world! ## I was really stuck and frustrated trying to communicate the depth of what I do. I'd spend hours explaining my work to potential clients each week. Now my website does all that for me. I have a streamlined platform in which to grow. ## Kris really listened and distilled my Story for me. My overwhelm melted away and was replaced with calm, confidence and clarity." #### –Brandy Poirier, Wellness Practitioner **Meet Brandy, who was struggling to convey the value of her services to her clients in a more concise way.** Brandy was spending countless hours every week on sales calls trying to convey the value of her services to potential clients. We tackled this head-on by refining her message to make it clear, engaging, and reflective of her unique expertise. This wasn’t just about tweaking her website; it was about transforming how she communicates her professional value, making every word count. The impact? Brandy now saves precious hours each week because her website does the heavy lifting for her. Potential clients come to calls already understanding her services, which boosts her conversion rates significantly. **Imagine what you could do with a few extra hours each week.** If you're ready to streamline your business communications and reclaim your time, let’s connect. A [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) could be the first step to achieving the clarity that has transformed Brandy's business. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/marketing-made-simple-3 ### Title: What's More Important in Your Website: Substance or Style?, with Dr. J.J. Peterson and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5272357 ### Content: ## What's More Important in Your Website: Substance or Style?, with Dr. J.J. Peterson and Kris Jones What's More Important in Your Website: Substance or Style?, with Dr. J.J. Peterson and Kris Jones **Have you ever wondered why some businesses thrive while others struggle to get noticed?** It's not just about having a flashy website or the latest marketing gimmicks. It's about connecting authentically and creating true, meaningful relationships with your audience. ? The transformative power of prioritizing story over design - learn how shifting your focus can dramatically enhance your marketing impact. ? How to charge what you're truly worth with confidence - hear firsthand how one consultant drastically increased his fees by harnessing the right messaging. ? Essential strategies for getting buy-in - discover a fail-proof method to ensure all stakeholders are on board with minimal revisions. Intentional storytelling not only clarifies your message but also empowers you to connect more deeply with your clients, leading to increased confidence and the ability to charge appropriately for your services. Don't let complexity stifle your business's potential. Simplify your approach and watch your relationships and revenue grow. It’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and forget the one thing that can help you stand out with little to no effort. After 20 years in the industry, I’m here to tell you there is a simpler way to build a profitable business. Hey Hero Maker, have you been listening to one of our episodes and been like, yeah, but JJ and April, I feel really stuck because, well, we're putting together a new series just for you. For you, we want you to call in with your marketing questions and areas where you just feel like you haven't been able to move forward. Maybe you've been trying to figure something out for a while and the answer just seems to be eluding you. Maybe your newsletters or emails just aren't getting the engagement that you hoped they would. Maybe when you sit down to create marketing, you become furious or sad or scared. And so you just end up avoiding them all together. Well, we got you. Just call 615 649 0705 and leave us a voicemail with your name, the name of your business, and why you're stuck and we'll see if we can help you make your marketing easy and make it work. Just call us at 615 649 0705 and share where you're stuck. Again, that's 615 649 0705. 6 4 9 0 7 0 5. This happens a lot in marketing. You get excited about something and you jump headfirst into the thing that you're the most excited about instead of actually going all the way. Wait, what do we want this to accomplish and develop some strategy and messaging first? And where we really see this a lot is websites. Websites, people get really excited about and they jump to the bells and whistles first. They want it to be beautiful. They want it to wow people. However, there's different order that you need to go in to set it up for the success that you actually want in the long  run.  Hello, Hero Maker. Welcome to the Marketing Made Simple podcast. Powered by StoryBrand and brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, where we believe your marketing should be easy and it should work. I am your host, Dr. J. J. Peterson, and I am joined by my co host April Sunshine Hawkins. Hi, April. Oh, hi, J. J. And hello, Hero Maker. And J. J., congratulations on your engagement. Thank you very much. Oh, my goodness. Thank you very much. It was such a delight to see the first Photos and the video on Instagram. So Hero Maker, if you haven't checked it out, go check out the feed at Dr. JJ Peterson on Instagram. Oh, it was so heartwarming and you look so happy. And I'm so curious about how wedding planning is going.  Well, what's funny is. Well, first off, thank you. That's very sweet. Um, yeah, it was kind of a last minute thing, not last minute, like that we're going to get married, but a last minute proposal. Because what was funny is I thought I was ahead of the game. So we were thinking we were going to get married in the fall. And so in my mind, I'm like, well, then I don't need to propose until the summer. And  then we can kind of throw together a wedding. How is this ahead of the game? I'm confused about the ahead of the game. So this is the ahead of the game part. So what happened is a friend of mine said, You should talk to our wedding coordinator. And I was like, It's way too early. But we'll talk to the wedding coordinator. And as we were talking to her, we found out she had one Sunday in all of September and October available. No Fridays, no weekends. No Saturdays, and I was like, Oh, well, she's just really good. So she's really busy. And then we started looking at venues and all the venues were booked, like for all the whole fall. And then caterers were booked. And so here I am thinking like, Oh, talking to a wedding coordinator. Right now I'm way ahead of the game. Turns out I am so far behind as far as like planning. So I wasn't planning on getting engaged for a while. And, you know, mainly because of life circumstances, we were going to get married last year and then, you know, stuff happened with my dad and our kids and all of this stuff. And so, um, Uh, we kind of pushed it back. So it's not like it wasn't happening. It's just, I thought, I've got some time. I wanted to put a flash mob together and for engagement. And so I thought I had all this time. And so once we decided, then we actually started first with getting the flash mob. Some of the things, details, taking care of getting our wedding coordinator, looking at venues and things like that. And then I got engaged. And so that's why it was like, it was a little bit last minute engagement. And I just kind of carried the ring around in my pocket and found the perfect moment. And it really was very special to us, more special than I actually thought it would be. And it was really cool. And it's been that now we're like in that wedding planning zone. And what's interesting to me, because I, I, as a former pastor, I have performed probably around a hundred weddings because I was actually a, uh, I was ordained minister and I worked at two different Bible colleges. So. I, all the kids were getting married. They asked me to do the wedding, so I performed a lot. I've just not really thought about my own for, you know, a long time. So I'm learning so much. And what's funny is the very first thing that we wanted to, like, get is we want we want to. Tattoo artists at our wedding reception like like real one real one. Yeah ink. Yes with actual ink in the skin Not in a tattoo real tattoos. Yeah, so you'll be getting yours You and Brent And so we like knit that was like the most important thing to us which is so funny because we wanted that kind of piece in there and So we got our tattoo artists, then we started talking to wedding venues, wedding venues that we liked, and we were settling on a wedding venue and found out that actually they won't allow outside tattoo artists there because of insurance purposes. So then. Yay. All of a sudden now we had to back out of a wedding venue because, and, and it was this, it's weird thing of like,  you have to kind of go in the right order of stuff, right? So we really should have gotten engaged first  and then had gone to maybe a wedding planner and then the venue and then it, like all of these things, but we just dove right in on tattoos and now we're having to like pump the brakes and back up a little bit. And, like, figure out the rest of it. I mean, you're gonna get married. Yes, that's happening. That is definitely happening. But I can see that it's just like, okay, the order of this, it could have, like, helped maybe reduce a little stress.  And also just finding the things that match your vision in the right order makes a lot of sense, right? It's a science a little bit. It's a little bit. Thank goodness we have a planner who now, like, is helping with all of those things. that really kind of shows us how to do it because This happens a lot in life and you know you get excited about something and you jump headfirst Into the thing that you're the most excited about and as you get going in the process all of a sudden you realize Oh, maybe if we would have started in a more foundational place first and then bring in the bells and whistles,  or the tattoo artists, as you will, as we will, um,  then you actually can set things up in the right order and not have to kind of like backtrack and do that. And start over and it happens in life and then it happens in marketing. I see this a lot with people in marketing space as well is they go, Oh, we need an incredible campaign to launch on TikTok. So let's develop a dance routine. Let's be funny. Let's develop this kind of thing because they jump to the bell and whistle first and they go, Oh, let's jump on this trend that's happening right now, instead of actually going. Wait, what do we want this to accomplish and develop some strategy and messaging first? And where we really see this a lot is websites, websites. People get really excited about and they dive in because they want it to be beautiful. They want it to be functional, but really they want it to wow people when they come to website. I need the right template. It's gotta be the right template. The right colors and the right logo and all the right images. And they start with that. And in reality, Those are great. Those are great bells and whistles. That's great branding move. I don't want to discount that. However, there's probably a different order that you need to go in, in order to set it up for the success that you actually want in the longterm. Absolutely. And today you are going to learn how to do things in the right order, and that will help you make your marketing easy and make it work.  So Chris Jones, we are talking to StoryBrand Certified Guides who have been in our program more than five years, which you definitely fit the bill for. Of course, you came to like one of our very first trainings. We're asking everybody the same question. What is one big realization that has changed the way that you do marketing? Oh, wow. So I have been in the industry now 20 years. Which is insane to think about. But when I became a guide and when I really understood the framework enough to implement it for my clients,  everything changed around the way that I do my work, because I have always been kind of a, a design first type of person, like all about aesthetics. Making it look beautiful, create a gorgeous website.  And what I really learned in  2017 was how important story is. And in a way I knew it was important, but I didn't know how powerful it was.  And that is what shifted the order in which I do things. So I had prior to that created a beautiful design and then had a copywriter go insert copy here. And in you've got this much room to put the copy, right? And then once I was empowered to implement story brand,  I started with the copy. I started with the story and then the design came secondary to everything else. Wow, that's a really big shift because it sounds like you were in marketing for over ten years before becoming a StoryBrand Certified Guide. So what happened once you started incorporating StoryBrand? First, what, what was that like? It was really incredible, honestly. I mean, I've been doing the work long enough that initially when I got into the industry, like a beautiful website was really all you needed to thrive in business. Like, there was not a lot of competition, and if you had a website, you were a legit business, right? That's like, watch out, world. Like, wow. Right, right. You've made it. So, what shifted for my clients after was really remarkable. And that's why I use that word, powerful, when I talk about story, because it hit me in the face, like, this is the most effective way to market.  Really to connect, to create true, authentic connections. And people want to work with people they feel connected to. They don't want to work with the most qualified or the one with the prettiest design. And so for my clients, I w I was getting calls like every week. I had one client that.  Had been on the verge of burnout, had been on the verge of closing the doors of his business. He was a consultant and he called me and said, I'm now charging six times more for the exact same service. I haven't changed a thing. And I feel so confident. Like he's like, I show up differently at networking events because I have the right words to communicate what I do. So it was like this. Confidence began to happen internally for my clients and then outwardly they were able to charge what their work was worth, really what the problem they were solving was worth. What a powerful transformative experience for that client. And so Chris, I want to dig in a little deeper here because obviously this paradigm shift, you know, going from design first to, um, story, huge. I want to know, you know, what else, like when you dig deep, whenever you are working with people creating their story, what is another big realization, another big approach to creating the story that has really made a huge impact? Um, well, one of the biggest, Things is that most people don't understand how story works. And so I began to really bake in time and tools to educate them on the importance of it and how it worked in a way that didn't overwhelm them because I'm often working with people that are.  very busy. They have a lot on their plate. They don't want to, even if I would send them the book, they might not read it. Um, so I found a couple of very short videos that in two or three minutes could summarize what StoryBrand was all about and why they needed it. And that has been probably as big of a game changer for me as the other, because It's really, you can't get approval on copy or a story if they don't understand the why behind what you're doing.  And so I really take the time to educate them, literally one on one. We have calls. I basically, it looks like I'm sharing the story. The copy with them and I'm presenting it to them, but it's really about education and helping them understand why this is there, why I'm using this, why this section includes that. And I found when I do that, which I do with every client now, I really don't get any revisions.  And that saves a ton of time  for everybody, for  everybody, because it sounds like you are saying, okay, hey, let's start with the why. This is why story works. This is how it works. This is how we've crafted your story through this framework. What do you think? And then they go, Yes, rather than it being like, well, I, I'm the expert. I put this through this framework that you know nothing about. You don't have any clue why this might work or why it might not. And now I'm presenting something to you to be an editor and instead of a approver, you know, and whenever we put something in front of someone to be an editor, they're like, They think it's their job to find something that needs to change, and when they have the education and that you're on the same team, it's more of that approver role. Is that what I'm hearing you say? It's like a partnership, but we don't get off the call until we're aligned. We go through each and every detail, and I make sure I get their thumbs up and buy in, and if I don't have it, we adjust. And so that's eliminated all the rounds of revisions that can often get a little bit out of control. Absolutely. Absolutely. We do not want to get on the revision train, you know, and just stay on it forever. And then after that design comes into play. Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Like, I'm a big believer that there's a visual story being told right alongside of the written story that's told. And when you take the time to care and carefully curate the visual story. And it aligns with the written story. That's when you like bubble up to the top of the internet, because so many people might invest in their story, but they kind of think of design as an afterthought, or they might outsource it to someone who doesn't have experience. Or, you know, a lot of people, I think, devalue the importance of design. And I have found that there's so many wonderful ways. It's to tell a visual story that actually enhances the written story. And it's not all that hard, but it has to be done and it has to be done with intention.  Entrepreneurs on Fire is hosted by John Lee Dumas and is available now on the HubSpot podcast network. Entrepreneurs on Fire stokes inspiration and share strategies to fire up your entrepreneurial journey and create the life you've always dreamed of. If you're wanting to learn more about entrepreneurship, this show is for you. If you like fast paced and packed with value stories that you can learn from directly, this show is also for you. Check out the recent episode titled February 2024 Income Report, where John Lee Dumas shares a transparent behind the scenes look at the ups and downs of running a seven figure business. Through hearing about his mistakes, lessons learned and wins, you'll be inspired and motivated to take action in your business with just one step forward every single day. He even gives a link with free and direct access to his company's income report. So listen to entrepreneurs on fire wherever you get your podcasts.  Now that I'm a dad of a teenager, I am very often told that I am either on or off trend.  I wake up in the morning and it is a really right away going, Oh no, you can't wear that when you walk out the door. And I'm like, what? I thought that this is what everybody was wearing. It's true when it comes to my clothes. And it also is true with marketing strategies. They come and they go and they come back again. Who can even keep up? Luckily, there's HubSpot's 2024 State of Marketing Report. It's the all in one guide for what's happening this year and how marketers can best approach it all. I found it incredibly helpful. In fact, it really showed me that you need to keep your marketing personal, even in the midst of all the changes that are happening with AI. I even posted about it on LinkedIn and wrote about it. You can find it there, or you can go to hubspot. com slash state of marketing to get your free copy of the report. Don't get. Caught behind the trends, visit hubspot. com slash state of marketing to get your free copy of the report.  And now back to the show.  Are there some ways that you are working with your clients and putting up boundaries that make it easier on both of you? Definitely. In my initial call with a client, I asked them a handful of questions. Number one, I've become the guide instead of the, the hero, right? Even in the, it's very meta, even in our relationship, I'm the guide. And so I ask them questions to qualify them, to find out if they're a good fit for me. For example, I will ask, okay, are you the key decision maker for this project? And if they're not, I'll say, okay, well, I can only take this project on if I'm working directly with the key decision maker, if there are multiple decision makers, which does happen, I will not take the project. If there are more than two key decision makers, so if there are, let's, let's just say they have a committee of five. I'll say, okay, if you want to move forward with the project, then I need you to choose the two people that I'm going to be communicating with. And those people need to be given the power to make decisions because we make a lot of decisions on our calls and we don't have time to like, Go back and get buy in from the group and then come back and revise. So it's really efficient that way. And prior to that, what would happen is I would not be working with the key decision maker. And often there'd be lots of people involved and I would present. The design and the story, and then they would go off and present it without me to everybody else. And then everybody has an opinion and it would kind of go off the rails and the, the integrity and quality of the project, the design and the story would just go down, just. Spiral down downwards, which is so painful to watch. And again, like back to that idea of win win, it was really a lose lose because the end result just got watered down. And I think the intention was good in that when there is a group of people involved, often one of the key decision makers wants to, wants everyone to feel like they're included.  And when people feel included, they feel like they should participate in feedback and they often will give feedback based on their personal preference, not based on what the hero's personal preference would actually be. And so that's part of the reason it does go downhill quickly. And so I'm just, I'm not willing to do that. Like I can't stand behind work.  And watch it go downhill. And so I, I basically qualify them at the beginning and I tell them why, like, this is why. I care about the end product so much that my name is behind it. And I want the most effective website or marketing tool. That you can possibly have, and this is why I do it. And so they, they understand and then they get on board with it. So that's really changed the way that I. That I work with my clients. I think they also feel more confident in me because I'm the guide and I have qualifications when you're working with larger companies like Nike or like well known companies that everybody wants to like have that logo in their portfolio. Often it creates this relationship where the. Consultant or the vendor will just bend over backwards because it's Nike and they don't want to mess up the relationship. And so they are kind of like the design monkey or the copywriting monkey rather than really the one in charge. So, you know, the reality is they're hiring me, they're hiring other guides for their expertise. And part of that is really Making sure that the integrity of the work is maintained. That's so, so smart. Sounds like you have just really dialed in your process. Yeah. Well, there's one other thought that I had, which is there are ways to get group buy in. You just have to do it intentionally and strategically. And so if you're someone like me and you, you're kind of limiting the amount of people that are the main decision makers. The workaround is to get it to the point that you love it, and there are two options that are a win win. There's the blue option, and there's the turquoise option. And then you, at that point, once we've sifted through all the big decisions, or there's like, One headline versus another headline, but they're both really good. They're really solid. Then you can show it to the group and get buy in. And that's a beautiful way to like include everybody. Cause I think the intention, like I said, it's a good one. And people do want to feel like they're participating in the process. And I think it's best to kind of wait till you've got a couple options that are a win win and then they get to vote or choose or. Give their thoughts. Yes. Yes. You're right. Buy in is essential for people to be like, Oh, I gave my green light. I gave my thumbs up to this, but you're what you're proposing is, Hey, in a win win scenario, we're also creating two win wins to present, um, as well. So it's a lot of winning, um, is what I'm hearing. Yeah. Well, Chris, this has been such an an energizing conversation. What I gleaned from you is that today's conversation was really a masterclass in intention. These big paradigm shifts, they make such a big difference in our businesses, but also in our lives. And so thank you for coming on and sharing your wisdom. Chris https: otter. ai Aw, thank you for having me.  Okay, Hero Maker, now you have permission to be really intentional about the order that you do things in creating new projects, who you talk to, how you structure your time, really focus on being intentional on creating marketing that works. And if you're still feeling stuck, Duck trying to figure out how to apply the StoryBrand framework into your marketing. You can hire a StoryBrand certified guide like Chris Jones. Just go to marketingmadesimple. com to hire a guide that will show you how to clarify your message and create marketing that works. Well Hero Maker, it's time to apply everything you learned with this week's actionable step. A practical step from today's conversation, you can immediately use to shape your marketing and clarify your message every time that you start a new project, whether it involves design, whether it involves video, whether it involves social media, emails, Any marketing collateral at all, you need to be intentional about how you start. And we know the best way you can start is by creating a clear message. And the way that we create a clear message is with a brand script. We've said it over and over and over again on this podcast. And if you've been around StoryBrand at all, you understand the power of a brand script and using it to create a clear message.  If you go into all of those other projects, your website, your digital campaigns, videos, anything, and you do not have a clear message, all you're doing is putting more noise in the marketplace. You really, really, really need to be intentional about the message that you're putting out there. And the best way to do it is by. Creating a clear message with a brand script. And you know, the brand script really is that place. When you use a brand script, it's that place that you can keep all of your marketing language. And you know that the brand script really is just a tool that you use to create marketing language around you and your customer story. You position your customers, the hero. You talk about the problems that you solve for your hero. You talk about how you position yourself as a guide, how you give them a plan, how you call them to action and cast a vision for what their life looks like if they do or don't buy your product with success and failure. All you're doing in a brand script is creating talking points that keep your message clear and focused. Then once you have that, you can take that and use that in your business. In all your marketing collateral, but if you jump into the other stuff first, it's not going to be as effective. So your actionable step for this week's episode is to make sure that you are creating a clear message before you actually launch any campaigns. Sit down. And create a clear message using a brand script. And if you've been trying to figure out if you are doing this right, if the brand scripts that you're creating and the message that you're creating is clear and it's compelling, you can actually come to our StoryBrand Marketing Workshop, which is coming up May 7th and 8th. In that marketing workshop over two days, you will actually create a clear message for a campaign or your overall business. And the best part about it is you will have a story brand certified guide who will coach you through the whole process. So, you know, you're getting it right. It is so important to have that clear message upfront before you launch any new marketing. Project. If you don't, you're just putting noise in the marketplace. You're going to confuse your customers and your marketing won't work. So to register for the StoryBrand Marketing Workshop, May 7th and 8th, go to storybrand. com slash workshop to join us for this virtual event. When you clarify your message and you get that right from the start. What you do in that moment is you create messaging that positions your customers. The hero, you talk about the problems that you solve, and when they buy your product, they ultimately overcome those problems. They become the hero of their own story. And that's what ultimately makes you the great guide. That's what makes you a hero maker.  Well, that's all for this week's episode of marketing made simple. Thank you so much for listening and believing like us that your marketing should be easy. Easy and it should work follow marketing made simple wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you found this episode valuable, please rate and review the show, letting us know how these tips are clarifying your message and growing your business. Okay, Hero Maker, are you like me and you've purchased maybe a few online courses and they're just like hanging out,  waiting to be gone through. But what I really need, and maybe you do too, is somebody to walk you through the content live. Like I need to put it on my calendar. I need to say, okay, for these two days I am doing this. And then  I want some real time feedback. Well, that's what you're going to get if you come to our StoryBrand live workshop. Instead of worrying about the future, you can actually make a plan and move forward. You can surround yourself with support and positivity. So at this virtual marketing workshop, you are going to clarify your message by walking through every single piece of the StoryBrand framework and figuring out, okay, What is it that my customer wants? What is it that my customer is experiencing? Like, what's the problem that we need to actually focus on here? And you're going to do that with the help of an expert story brand coach. And so our next workshop is coming up May 7th and 8th. The deadline to register is May 3rd, and all you've got to do is go to StoryBrand. com slash workshop to sign up, get it on your calendar and know that you will have the accountability and somebody to come alongside you and walk you through it every step of the way. Again, go to StoryBrand. com slash workshop to sign up now.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-geoff ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Geoff ### Page ID: 5317259 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt like your website just doesn’t showcase the level of your expertise? ## "As a client, you can trust Kris to expertly guide you through the marketing process, give feedback that will help clarify your message, and give you a product that is incredibly high quality." #### –Geoffrey Halsey **That’s what Geoff of East Portland Sash was struggling with when they came to me.** Their brand foundation was solid, but their outdated website didn’t communicate the depth of their experience or connect effectively with their target audience. They needed a revamp that not only clarified their messaging but also elevated their brand visuals to stand out in a competitive industry. We dove deep into their business to understand the nuances of their services and crafted a marketing strategy that streamlined and unified their messaging. This wasn’t just about making minor tweaks; it was a comprehensive overhaul that positioned them as the go-to experts in their field. The results speak for themselves. The new branding and website make their marketing efforts more streamlined. Geoffrey, the owner, noted, “**Kris helped us clarify our messaging and concentrate on the most important aspects of our brand and marketing material... Everything feels more organized and purposeful.**” This project was about more than just aesthetic changes; it was about creating a strategy that increased revenue and profits by making their marketing tools more effective and cohesive. If Geoffrey’s story inspires you and you’re ready to see how a strategic marketing overhaul can change the game for your business, I’m here to help. [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let's discuss how we can bring clarity to your marketing efforts. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-kim ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Kim ### Page ID: 5317302 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt like your professional identity just doesn't align with who you are? ## "The whole process was really fun and positive, and the one-on-one discussions helped me discover who I am and what my business message is. ## Kris's superpower is identifying what makes someone unique and expressing that through design and messaging. I made a smart decision to seek her expertise! #### –Dr. Kim Okamura **That's precisely the challenge Kim faced with her dentistry website.** Kim was all too familiar with the generic, cookie-cutter approach that dominated her industry's websites and knew something had to change to truly reflect her personality and professional ethos. We implemented a StoryBrand Strategy, honing her messaging to resonate deeply with her target audience. Then we ensured she captured photos that helped tell the story on her new website. And finally, the website design revitalized her site from something flat to a vibrant experience that perfectly captures the essence of her practice. The results were immediate and profound. Kim's new website now perfectly mirrors the continuity between her practice's vision, reputation, and the personal relationships her team builds with each patient. She shared, "**We went from a flat, cookie-cutter website to something that 100% resonates with our team’s personality and professional approach.**" If Kim’s story inspires you and you’re ready to discover how authentic branding can transform your practice, I’m here to guide you. Let’s schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) to explore how we can bring your unique value to life with branding and messaging that stands out. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/call ### Title: Call ### Page ID: 5342485 ### Content: # Book a Money-Making Messaging Call #### **TELL YOUR STORY. MAKE MORE SALES.** # Blog Posts **Get a clear plan on our call for how to fix your website messaging.** *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-dan ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Dan ### Page ID: 5355597 ### Content: ## Ever wondered how to elevate a great product into a standout brand in a competitive market? ## "What Kris delivered is focused, clean and effective." #### –Dan Mages With a fantastic product in hand, Dan needed to transform his offering into a message that would not only connect but also shine in a sophisticated industry. Our journey with my Signature StorySelling System began with a clear objective: to create a brand identity that truly represented the high-end nature of his business. We started with the creation of a new logo and brand identity that reflected the elegance and sophistication of Dan's product. Our team also took charge of the website messaging and design, ensuring every element from layout to content communicated luxury and quality. The transformation didn’t stop there. We directed a photoshoot that captured the essence and allure of the brand, setting the visual tone that matched the newly crafted brand message. A striking website that not only looks beautiful but effectively conveys the mood and promise of what Wine Paddle offers. Dan couldn't be happier, noting, **"Kris took my idea and transformed it into a brand that is not just visually appealing but deeply resonant with our target audience."** He highly recommends Red Door if you're seeking to make a similar leap, stating, **"Spend the money. You get what you pay for—a strategic, clean, and effective presence that will set you apart."** If you’re ready to see how we can transform your product into a compelling brand, let’s connect. Book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today and let's discuss how to elevate your business to meet its true potential. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-jay ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Jay ### Page ID: 5355634 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt your professional presence wasn't quite hitting the mark online? ## "Stop settling for mediocre results. Kris will walk you through a very exciting process right to the end. Launch day will be a celebration and you will take pride in the finished product." #### –Dawn Kephart Jay had an outdated website that poorly represented his dual expertise in patient care and dental education. **"Our biggest challenge was that we had no real brand. Our website was antiquated. It was embarrassing and unorganized. Until we met Kris, creating a new website that would help to build our brand seemed daunting."** Through my Signature StorySelling System, our goal was to weave a cohesive message that catered to both groups without compromising the personal touch his practice is known for. We implemented a comprehensive overhaul, starting with a fresh logo and refined brand identity that resonated more authentically with his audiences. A pivotal part of our process was employing the StoryBrand framework to sharpen his messaging, ensuring clarity and engagement across all platforms. The result is a website that Jay is proud to showcase. It now stands as a true reflection of his industry leadership and educational commitment, capturing the essence of his practice's philosophy and the unique value he offers. The visual and narrative alignment now effectively attracts and educates site visitors, enhancing both patient engagement and professional collaboration. **"Now we are so proud to direct potential patients to the site to show off our office philosophy and brand story. It is visually impactful and engaging. It is a true depiction of what we stand for and what makes us unique."** If Jay’s story sparks inspiration, or if you’re facing similar challenges in striking the right chord with your online presence, I’m here to help. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me. Let's elevate your brand to reflect the excellence you bring to your field. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-alex ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Alex ### Page ID: 5355667 ### Content: ## Ever wondered how to make your brand stand out in a crowded market? ## "StoryBrand strategy makes it easy for potential clients to say yes." **Alex faced a similar challenge with his company—they needed to showcase their high-end services and industry expertise more effectively.** Their online presence didn’t reflect their top-tier offerings. Recognizing this gap, they worked with us to elevate their visuals and clarify their messaging, aiming to attract even more discerning clients. We revamped their brand identity, implemented a tailored Signature StorySelling strategy, redesigned their website, and refined their sales funnels. The new brand identity and strategic messaging now clearly communicate the value they bring to high-end clients, making it easier for these prospects to engage with their dynamic solutions. The transformation was not just visual but strategic, ensuring every touchpoint with clients—from the landing page to lead magnets—was compelling and aligned with their business goals. The new approach has already begun to pay dividends, attracting the right clients who appreciate and need their expertise. If your company struggles to convey its unique advantages in a clear and impactful way, let’s talk. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let’s see how we can transform your brand’s story to resonate better with your ideal clients. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-loretta ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Loretta ### Page ID: 5355766 ### Content: ## Ever felt like your expertise wasn't shining through your brand message or online presence? ## "It's an entirely new way of approaching brand storytelling and website design." #### \-Loretta Soffe **Loretta faced this exact challenge, realizing that her existing branding and website weren't reflecting her true capabilities, which meant missing out on connecting with her ideal clients.** Loretta is an expert in her field, but her brand message and online presence weren’t representing her level of expertise. She was missing opportunities for new clients by not connecting with her ideal audience. We started with my comprehensive Signature StorySelling System to make sure her messaging hit the mark, revamped her logo and visuals to elevate her brand, and directed a photoshoot that captured her professional essence. Our revamp didn’t stop there; we overhauled her website to ensure it was not just functional but compelling and clear. The transformation was profound. Loretta's new online presence now effectively communicates her expertise and how she solves her customers' problems. She loved crafting a brand story that resonates and genuinely represents her services. **“My online presence is super clear and compelling! It's an entirely new way of approaching brand strategy and website design,”** Loretta shared excitedly. Are you ready to experience a similar transformation? Let’s talk about elevating your brand to truly reflect your professional expertise. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today, and let's bring clarity and distinction to your online presence. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-james ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> James ### Page ID: 5355833 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt like potential clients visit your website, but then don’t take action? ## "If you nod your head when it comes to the StoryBrand approach, engaging with Red Door is the best way to implement that strategy." #### \-James Adair **When James came to me, their site was not performing—visitors arrived but didn’t engage, leaving potential conversions on the table.**  Potential clients would visit PDX’s site, but not engage because the messaging wasn’t connecting. The client was frustrated because prospects weren’t converting to clients.  Together, we overhauled their marketing strategy, starting with my Signature StorySelling System to redefine how they communicated with potential clients. We refreshed their logo and brand visuals to better reflect their industry stature and unique approach, and directed a photoshoot that captured the essence of their team, adding a personal touch to their website. Our efforts culminated in a redesigned website that not only looks great but speaks directly to their target audience, resulting in a record-breaking number of lead calls booked each month. James Adair, the client, noted, **“Kris up-leveled my brand and prospect engagement has gone through the roof. My favorite part was the strategic planning around the customer journey and seeing it all come together."** **“We’ve had a record breaking number of lead calls booked!”** If James’s story resonates with you and you’re ready to see similar results, let’s connect and I’ll show you how the Signature StorySelling approach can be applied to your business. Book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today and start transforming how your clients see your business. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrew ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Andrew ### Page ID: 5355882 ### Content: ## Ever stumbled your words when trying to explain what you do? ## "My message is clear, connects, and gets potential clients excited to work with me." #### \-Andrew Sherman **Andrew faced that exact challenge, finding himself stuck when it came to describing his services.** Determined to refine his approach and truly connect with potential clients, Andrew sought a transformation in his marketing strategy. He chose to partner with us for a complete overhaul, from deepening his message clarity to refreshing his visual identity. Our collaboration wasn't just about enhancing aesthetics; it was about creating a cohesive, strategic marketing framework that reflected the true essence of the company. Andrew's favorite part of the Signature StorySelling System was the strategic planning sessions, where he could visualize the customer journey and see it come to life through our designs. The outcome? Andrew now articulates his business value with ease, engaging potential clients right from the first interaction. **"I can easily describe my business in a way that really connects with potential clients and gets them excited about working with me,"** Andrew shared enthusiastically. Reflecting on the investment, Andrew advises, **"If you are considering hiring Red Door, just write the check—you'll waste more money striking out on failed marketing attempts than you'll ever spend on Red Door Designs."** Are you ready to redefine how you communicate your business's value? Let’s schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) and start crafting a message that resonates and converts. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-leslie ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Leslie ### Page ID: 5355920 ### Content: ## Ever wondered if your website truly captures the essence of your business? ## "After working with Red Door, we now have a gorgeous new website I am proud to send people to. I have a clear path to the resources I need for design and website support. ## I feel such peace of mind knowing I have a website/brand partner for my business." #### \-Leslie Rugaber **Leslie faced this very issue—her site was outdated and didn’t showcase the unique value of her business in a dynamic industry.** Leslie knew they had a solid business strategy, but their website was outdated and desperately in need of a makeover. They wanted a way to communicate their unique value in an industry where most companies take a cookie-cutter approach to marketing.  We used my Signature StorySelling System to refresh the visual identity of the website to better reflect its unique market position and made it modern and inviting. A strategic photoshoot added a personal touch, showcasing the team’s authentic essence. We also developed engaging lead magnets to optimize the site for visitor conversion, enhancing overall user engagement and interaction. The results speak for themselves. Leslie's business is thriving more than ever, and she credits our collaboration for giving her peace of mind and a robust digital presence. **"Business is literally booming, and I know Red Door has my back,"** he reflects. Leslie’s final thoughts for anyone considering a similar upgrade? **"If you're on the fence about working with Kris, take the leap! With Kris, you have the chance to powerfully expand on your brand's presence in the digital world. She can break it down for you and make it manageable and achievable.”** Ready to experience a business transformation like Leslie’s? Let's discuss how we can refresh your brand and website to better reflect your unique value. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-jim ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Jim ### Page ID: 5355988 ### Content: ## Ever felt like you spent so much time working IN your business, you didn’t have time to work ON your business? ## "Kris' extensive experience with StoryBrand really came through in our new website. She's also a highly competent marketing consultant and web designer. ## This makes Red Door extremely effective while also affordable." #### \-Jim Winskill **That’s exactly what Jim found as he struggled to implement the StoryBrand Framework onto his website.** Jim had taken the StoryBrand course and saw the value of using its framework to clarify his company’s messaging, but he didn’t have time to develop a website while also managing his business. He wanted a Storybrand Certified Coach who could help him further develop his messaging and make a standout website.  We used my Signature StorySelling System to clarify his messaging to resonate deeply with his target audience, elevate his brand visuals to distinguish him from the competition, and ultimately increase his company's revenue and profits. The project encompassed a holistic makeover of his website's messaging and design, complemented by directed photoshoots to enhance his brand's visual narrative and the creation of a strategic lead magnet to boost customer engagement. Jim's website now effectively communicates the essence of Catchall Environmental, resulting in significantly increased web activity and leads. **"We have been getting more web activity and leads than ever before!"** Jim reported, appreciating the newfound clarity and effectiveness of his site. He now enjoys peace of mind, confident that visitors to his website understand precisely who they are and how they can help. Jim values the blend of strategy and creativity that Kris brought to the table, highlighting her dual role as a seasoned StoryBrand guide and an adept marketing consultant. Thanks to this powerful combination, he not only has a standout website but also a streamlined, effective marketing strategy that delivers results. **"I feel a peace of mind knowing that our messaging is finally on target. Now I can be confident that whoever goes to our website will get a clear grasp of who we are and how we can help."** If you find Jim's success inspiring and are looking for a similar transformation, I’m here to help. Schedule a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) with me today. Let’s discuss how we can make your business message clear and your website a magnet for leads. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/adhd-for-smart-ass-women ### Title: Simplifying Writing for ADHD Brains, with Tracy Otsuka and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5616036 ### Content: ## Simplifying Writing for ADHD Brains, with Tracy Otsuka and Kris Jones Simplifying Writing for ADHD Brains, with Tracy Otsuka and Kris Jones **Have you ever struggled with your ADHD brain or felt like you had ADHD tendencies?**  In a recent conversation with Tracy Otsuka, we explored the power of storytelling and how it can actually help ADHD-related challenges.  This episode is packed with valuable insights for coaches, consultants, and service providers, offering new perspectives on embracing and leveraging your unique brain (even if you DON’T have ADHD). **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Learn the simple storytelling framework to communicate your value effectively. ? Discover actionable strategies to enhance your writing and communication, tailored for the ADHD brain. Let’s face it, running a business is tough. And I understand the challenges that come with it. That’s why I’m excited to share practical strategies that streamline your business and so you can get more clients and spend more time on what you love doing. Hello, my brilliant friends. We just launched Blends. Blends is my daily Monday through Friday, 10 minutes or less mix of audio coaching, teaching, mindfulness, affirmations, breath work, humor, gratitude, and inspiration, all blended together to regulate your nervous system and create positive emotion in a way that works for our ADHD brains who generally struggle when told to meditate. This is my labor of love. I can't even begin to tell you the positive emotion I have felt getting blends into the world. It's so much work. It's going to be so much more work because I'm committing to a year of these, but I am so looking forward to it. And right now it's only 47 for the whole year of positive emotion to start your day off on the right foot. I know it's kind of insane. And if you want more information, you can check it out at adhdforsmartwomen.com/blends.  Richard Branson, Michael Phelps,  Justin Timberlake, James Carville. Wait a minute!  Where are the women?  Greta Gerwig, Lisa Ling, Audra McDonald, Simone Biles.  That sounds like a list of highly successful Titans in a variety of industries. They all have ADHD, but you don't hear much about that now, do you? You know, what else you don't hear about are the 43 percent of people with ADHD who are in excellent mental health. Why aren't we talking about them and what they're doing?  I'm your host, Tracy Otsuka, and that's exactly what we do here. I'm a lawyer, not a doctor, a lifelong student, and now the author of my new book, ADHD for Smartass  Women. I'm also a certified ADHD coach and the creator of Your ADHD Brain is A OK, a patented system that helps ADHD women just like you. Like you get unstuck and fall in love with their brilliant brains here. We embrace our too muchness and we focus on our strengths. My guests and I credit our ADHD for some of our greatest gifts. And to those who still think they're too much, too impulsive, too scattered, too disorganized. I say no one ever made a difference by being too little. Hello. Hello. I am your host, Tracy Otsuka. Thank you so much for joining me here for another episode of ADHD for Smartass Women. My purpose, you know it, it's always to show you who you are and then inspire you to be it. Because in the thousands of ADHD women that I've had the privilege of meeting, I've never met a one that wasn't truly brilliant at something. Not one. So, of course, I am just delighted to introduce you to Chris Jones. Chris Jones is a pioneer in storytelling and entrepreneurship. She founded Red Door Stories in 2003 after overcoming significant challenges, including a struggle with writing and a fear of being seen. Chris has worked with experts like Donald Miller of building a story brand and has collaborated with major names like Jeff Bezos, Nike, and Adidas. Yet, Amidst these achievements, Chris's heart beats strongest for female coaches and service providers, empathizing with their struggles of copywriting, visibility, and the transformative potential of a well crafted signature story. For Chris, writing isn't torture, but a delightful journey of self expression and professional growth, especially for those navigating the challenges of ADHD. Red Door Stories embodies a revolution, turning the chore of writing into an empowering and enjoyable process. We'll see about that, Chris. Welcome, Chris. Did I get  all that right? You did it. You did it. Yep. That was perfect.  Wonderful. So before we go into the enjoyable, empowering process of writing, cause you've got a lot of convincing to do here. Chris, can you talk about your ADHD diagnosis first? Cause we always want to start there. Some sort of maybe, um, tell us your origin story.  Absolutely. So in 2017, I had a friend who had been diagnosed with ADHD and. Like many people, they think of ADHD as this inability to engage or pay attention to something. And I thought when my friend told me that, I thought it was just absurd and untrue. And of course I went home and did some digging and  trying to understand what she was talking about. And I, as I read about ADHD, I realized, oh my God, this is.  Like everything, check, check, check the box, everything around ADHD. It just, it was incredibly validating. And so at that point I eventually found a nurse practitioner who's specialized in 80 working with women that have ADHD, she has ADHD herself. And so she. was the one that I worked with to go through the testing and validate that I did have ADHD. Even if I hadn't gone through that, I know I, I mean, it's almost laughable all the ways my life shows up with ADHD symptoms. Absolutely. As a child, I was very anxious. I just, I remember just like this visceral. Desire to be invisible, to hide, to not have any attention on me. And at the same time, you know, I love my friends. I love to be creative. I was happiest just working on a creative project. I was very curious and interested in different things. So my, my parents helped me and allowed me to take a lot of different classes. But it became kind of a joke inside of our family because I like to try a lot of different things, but I never stuck with anything. And so that's, that's kind of what I was like as a kid. Did you struggle in school or was school easy for you?  I struggled in school a lot. I did get good grades because I worked really, really, really hard. My executive function was challenged, let's just say. And so I would have to, in school I remember like meeting my mom at lunch and we would go through the book that I was reading in English class. And because I couldn't,  I couldn't grasp and remember the information that I was reading, and so we would talk through it and she would help me kind of absorb the information so I could go to class and actually know what was going on. I think just memory wise, That was really challenging for me. I eventually became a cheerleader and I couldn't remember the dances. Like I, I literally, I was, I would watch everyone around me do the dance that we had just learned. And I was like, what is going on? And then what I would do is go home and practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. And eventually I'd get it, but I had to really take the time in quiet. Do the extra work in order to just do what other people were doing in my grade. Did school get harder for you as you got older or did it get easier?  So basically when I turned 18 in college, they make you pick a major. And I was like, I have no idea what I want to do. So I chose to major in sociology, which was It's mildly interesting, but not enough to really get into learning about it. And I struggled, I wasn't really interested in my major.  And I think I just needed  to mature, basically, to have life experiences, to learn about myself, what I'm good at, what I'm not good at, what I'm interested in. And so,  So throughout college, I just wasn't that into school. And then ironically, after I graduated from college, I got a degree in education. I knew I didn't want to be a teacher and I decided to travel the world and just buy time before I had to figure out what I wanted to do for a career. And during that time, I got exposed to  the industry of graphic design and that Was an immediate like, Whoa, this is what I've been doing as a child. This is what I've been, you know, for fun. I'd be making trifold vacation brochures and just silly things that I thought were art projects, but they were actually technically kind of graphic design projects.  And so when I got exposed to that after college, I decided to go back to school, to community college. And that was the. Best college experience of my entire life because I was learning about something that I was truly interested in and I wasn't learning about theory or reading big textbooks. I was learning from people who were real graphic designers in the industry and so it felt very relevant and I knew within about three minutes of the very first class I was in, I knew what I am in the right place, this is my thing, and I never looked back. I just immersed myself in that, and I couldn't, I didn't have any interest for anything else, um, until I, I kind of mastered this skill, and. It took about a year or two of that to get a job and then kind of work my way up into what I do now. So it really is a testament to the power of like finding that thing that you're really authentically interested in. And once you do anything is possible, but finding that thing is can be really hard. It can take a whole lifetime. You know, it's really interesting that you, you say this because what I always. say is the ADHD brain is a brain of interest. And so when we can figure out what we're interested in, which is really that sweet spot, right? Of where our values, our strengths, our talents, skills, passion, and then purpose, because we tend to be mission driven people. When you can find that sweet spot of where all of that intersects, then  Everything happened so quickly for us. So you were floundering, trying to figure out what you wanted to do,  and once the light bulb went on, it happened so quickly. It did. It  did. And to go from somebody who bounced around from hobby to hobby and taking horse riding classes and then knitting classes and then, you know, and never sticking with anything. Uh, and then at the age of 25.  coming across design and marketing. And it's essentially the only thing that I've stuck with my whole life. You know, it's, uh, it's been 23 years now and I am still every day as passionate about design. This work as I was at the beginning because they're I'm never solving the same problem twice. So it's like my brain has a perpetual bone to chew on, you know, like you give a dog a bone. I think we, our brains need bones to chew on and problems to solve to keep us interested. And because every client that I work with is different and I'm constantly learning, it's just always fresh and new. No matter what. get bored of it. Yeah. It makes perfect sense. And it was there from the time you were a kid. It was. We go out there searching for what can it possibly be? You know, we're constantly out there. It's external when really. The answers are all inside of us and we've been doing it from the time we were little. That's right. But no one teaches us that, right? Yes. Yeah.  Yeah, or when you go to a liberal arts college, right, there's like 12 different things you can choose and  the ADH brain is like, So nuanced, you know, that like general buckets of  subject matter are often just really, really bland and really boring. And I, I think one of my biggest challenges and also my greatest gifts is that I get bored very easily. And when I'm bored, I am painfully bored. And so it's, it's I've got to keep things interesting and fresh, and thank God I found a career that did that.  So I'm curious, um, once you figured out, oh my gosh, this is ADHD, and my friend has it too, what changed for you? Initially I was, Ashamed of it. I thought it was like something wrong with me, something I had to hide it, that it was like a disability. And so I struggled with it internally. I kept it very private. I didn't want to talk about it at all, but I did have my friend and I could like bounce things off her, like, Oh my gosh. Like, and honestly, I found your Facebook group too. And that became. Such a comfort to me that other people were in the same boat as I was, and that the way you present ADHD is so much more of a superpower than anything else, but it, it's the whole range of it, right? It's like that group is, it's full of a lot of support and a lot of people that can echo your experience and totally get it. It's also Full of wins and great things that people are doing and changing the world, you know, it's pretty cool. Now, I, I mean, having ADHD has become so common, you know, now I don't even think about it. I just, Oh yeah, I have ADHD and everyone, and if I'm talking to anyone, they usually go, yeah, me too. And so it's just like, it's just kind of a, um, I just don't think of it as anything negative anymore. I just think of it like this is just part of who I am and I have my ways of managing the world with it. Like little tools that help me remember things and you know. The idea list, oh my gosh, I think that is like, is a little out of control. Explain that. I just, I have so many ideas. The idea list,  just the generation, like the The ideas that one can generate when you have ADHD is really extraordinary. And um, and so, you know, there are so many, I'll never accomplish them, but it's, it's really comforting to know, like, they're all, they're all in a place. They're all there. If I ever need to reference them, they're there.  So you can let them go, right? You don't need to do the bright sparkly, where you're a little bit here and a little bit there. Like you've got the focus on, oh no no, this is what I do, this is what I'm great at. And I love. Right. I'm just curious. How did you end up, um, working with, uh, Donald Miller? We have the same speaking coach, by the way. And so, I've heard about him personally, and it's, it's good.   Oh, and you're in Portland. That makes sense. He's the Portland guy.  Yeah, he's the Portland guy. So he actually lives in Nashville now, but he went to Reed College, which is in Portland and is the Portland guy. He talks about Portland a lot. And I got turned on to him. I don't even remember how I initially got turned on to him. He had a podcast, but it was before he had written the book building a story brand. And so nobody really knew About him, people knew about some of his other memoir work, and I just resonated like I had been doing marketing and design for long enough that I knew his approach to communication and the less is more, keep it simple type of way of communicating that he talks about was in perfect alignment with what I was already doing. His story brand framework. Just was a way to really, it really kind of defined what I had been doing and also elevated it and enhanced it. And so I decided that I wanted to learn more about that. And then at that point in time, he had decided to bring his entire team up to Portland for like a month over the summer because it was really hot in Nashville. And so I was able to learn from him up here in Portland with a really small group of people. And then he asked me to come back to Nashville and work more with him and become a guide. And this was again, before building a story brand came out. So it was early on, but I just, I so resonated with everything that he  taught me and I knew in my bones, kind of like when that first community college class, I just knew in my bones, Oh, this is what I meant to be doing right now. that way. I was going through your website and I was fascinated by, how do I even explain this? My biggest struggle, it sounds like yours, is working memory. So, when people tell me ADHD is a superpower, or do you believe ADHD is a superpower?  I say no, but I believe there's certain strengths that we have that can become superpowers, because if I could have fantastic working memory, and keep my ADHD, Oh, my God, you know, the sky would literally be the limit. And so, I get that everything you do is around this idea, like your whole business has sort of been built for the ADHD brain who struggles with working memory. Because Yeah. I will tell you that when I was a lawyer, I still remember those Monday morning meetings. I hated them. We had to talk about our cases. And I just, you know, it was so broad that I could never remember what to say. Or when people, you know, you're at a cocktail party and they're like, so what do you do? Oh my gosh, just like nails on a chalkboard. I can't even, you know, and you know, I'll say, Oh, I help ADHD women fall in love with their brain. Well, what the hell does that mean? That doesn't encompass the book. That doesn't encompass the podcast. I'm not really an ADHD coach, right? When I was a lawyer, when I was a fashion designer, when I owned, you know, a high end women's wear company, when I was a real estate broker, that was easy. People know what that is versus today. And this is exactly the pain point. That you address in how you work with your clients. So, I still haven't found an answer. But I've gotten better because I wrote the book at kind of solidifying, okay, well, what is it? What is it exactly? But still, I stumble when it's hard. What do you do? And, you know, just the thought of having to present what, what do I do, um, in groups of people? Like, I totally can get it if you give me enough time, but you make me do soundbites. Like when I actually, I think I, is it am Northwest? Is that in Portland? Yes. Yeah. So I was on am Northwest, you know, I don't know, a month ago for my book. And again, I don't know how to truncate anything. It's almost like I don't know what's important, so I have to give everything. And so when I am put in a situation where I'm limited to seven minutes, like I could not even believe how quickly seven minutes went by and it ended and I was like, I don't even think I told the main points  so I can completely, like I am your customer, right? So I'm going to shut up now and I want you to talk to this issue. That I think many of us with ADHD, most of us with ADHD struggle with. It's so  true. Whether you're self employed or you're employed, you have to be able to talk about what you do or just what you're doing, like with your, your lawyer meetings, what are you working on now? Right? And you have to be able to talk about it. And that's why the framework is so liberating because. Like, when you are on Northwest, what you really needed to do is hone in on just the important things and filter out the clutter and the noise. And when we're so close to what we do, it's really hard to do that. There's a thing called the curse of knowledge, which means You forget what it's like to not know what you know. So you kind of just start talking and you think that they understand the lingo that you're sharing. And they're like, their eyes are glazing over. They are not understanding it. Or you do the opposite of that, which is like the two word answer. I'm a real estate agent and then everyone's like, okay, well, Oh, look at the buffet table over there. Like it, it just doesn't open up anything. Nobody. Yeah. It's not interesting. And so the beautiful thing about storytelling is that it doesn't matter whether it's a movie, a book. spoken story that always follows the same formula, which is really comforting for the ADHD brain, because you just know, once you know the formula, you can always fall back on that. And so  there's limit, limitless creativity that can occur within the formula, just like  Every movie is the same formula, but you go to 10 movies in a year, they're wildly different from each other. They always begin with a hero that has a problem that they don't know how to solve. And that's how every story begins. And then, That hero, eventually, about a third of the way through the movie or book, they meet a guide who has overcome this problem before and can give them a clear and simple plan. If the hero follows that plan, they are going to experience success. And, They're going to avoid failure. And so this is really, that is the story brand framework in a nutshell, but story has been around for thousands of years. It's what, you know, pulled us together around the fireside at the beginning of time. So we're really wired for it. And it's story is story, but there's so much psychology that's baked into story and humans. We respond to story when we position. The work that we do as a story, for example, if somebody asks you, what do you do and you  have practiced and memorized an answer to that and you answer it in a way that follows that framework, a hero has a problem. They made a guide with who has a solution and they hero experiences success.  If you follow that. It takes about two sentences and you have just pulled somebody into an incredibly engaging conversation. And you show up with more confidence because you're not fumbling your words. And then the recipient or the person you're talking to gets pulled in because our brains cannot help but engage when we tell stories. We just can't, cannot help but engage. And so they're pulled in and then it opens up the door to a more engaging conversation. Or if they're like, if we're self employed and there's somebody that is struggling with the things that we solve, they can self identify. Oh, I'm, I can relate to that. I want to work with you. Oh my gosh, tell me more. And so it just, it opens up the door to so many opportunities. And the same thing if you're employed. By a company, you still have to market yourself. I don't care if you're employed or self employed, you have got to market yourself for the next promotion or for whatever that next goal is that you have. And the way you do that is to start to really understand and communicate. What you do and be able to concisely share the problem that you solve in a way that really makes sense and is not overwhelming for people.  So this is what I'm thinking. Okay. So in a situation like, so what do you do?  My struggle around this question is if I say, Oh, I help ADHD women fall in love with their brains. People are interested, typically, but I personally feel it's not important enough, which means it's boring. And so what can I say? So that it's not so boring because yeah, they're like, oh, well, you're an ADHD coach. Well, actually, I'm not like, it's just, you know, versus being able to have one phrase that it encapsulates everything with, without also sounding like a complete jerk, right? Well, I have, you know, you know, a bestselling book and I, you know, have a podcast with six and a half million down. Do you know what I mean? Like there's really this balance of I don't want to sound boring because you know boring is just like I can't like I can't even go there But also I don't want to sound like a total jerk like I'm completely full of myself,  of course and you know when you Get braggy, which I know you don't do that But answering that question doesn't mean you have to be braggy what we don't want to do is When we answer this question is kind of become the hero of our own story. We always want to lead with the hero who has a problem. That is not you. You are not the hero of the story. You are the guide. You are Yoda. You are Mr. Miyagi. You are the guide. So you don't even enter into this story until a third of the way through it.  Okay. So give me an example. I mean, it sounds like that's what I'm doing then. I help ADHD women fall in love with their brains. I'm doing that. Nope.  You're not doing that. Yet. Let's create it because I think it'll be really helpful for us to create it together and then if somebody wants to try it for themselves, they can follow. the structure of it. So remember, every story begins with a hero who has a problem. When you get on the phone and you talk to the people that you're working with,  or the people in your Facebook group, or whoever, all the ADHD women, what are they complaining about?  They feel overwhelmed. A lot of times, I think the biggest problem is the shame, right? They're embarrassed that they have ADHD, so they're unwilling to tell anybody about it. They kind of feel like they're all over the place. They don't know that they're doing what they should be doing for them.  Right. Okay. Okay, so what we want to do here is pick one problem. So, like if you're watching a movie, Let's just say like Born Identity, for example, the main actor, Matt Damon, he doesn't know who he is. And so the whole movie is about this is his problem and he is trying to solve this problem. And so we want to pick one problem. If Matt Damon really wanted to adopt a stray animal or a stray cat, and he wanted to have a girlfriend.  Now we've just overwhelmed the person that's watching the movie. We need to pick one problem, the biggest problem, the one you hear the most. So I think of what you shared, I think there are two big problems. I'd like you to pick one. So many women with ADHD are embarrassed by the diagnosis, or many women with ADHD are overwhelmed and feel like they're all over the place. Which of those problems feels more, more bigger?  I think is bigger, which is probably where I'm going when I say fall in love with their ADHD brain, right? Because they are not in love with their ADHD brain. They think it's a problem.  Yes. Okay. And here's what's beautiful about what you just shared. You're already telling part of a story. You just forgot that beginning problem part, which is the thing that hooks the brain. That's the most important part of this story. And so we really want to make  We want to remember to make our clients or the people that we do our work with the hero of the story. And we do that by showing that we care about them and their problem more than we care about ourselves. And it's kind of a load off for us. At least it was for me to realize like, oh my gosh, my story isn't even about me. Yes.  So it is a bit of a load off. So it's a process and it can take a little while, but we can get the structure of it and the scaffolding of it in place. And we're just going to do it on the fly so we can like create it together. So we're going to hone in on the fact that they're embarrassed about it and ashamed about it, because when you share the part about, I ADHD brain, what you're doing is positioning your work as the solution to the problem. And that is incredibly powerful.  And notice, I helped them fall in love with their ADHD brain is like eight words.  It's like your part of this story is the shortest part. Which is the only reason I  right?  Yeah, but this is what I tell my clients. Once you've got this, what I want you to do is print it out and put it next to your computer. Because for brains like ours, we need it in front of ourselves. And then the people that know what to say when someone asks them, what do you do? When they have an answer,  you think that they're thinking off the top of their head. They're not, they've memorized this. And so  it's really important to say it out loud, walk around the house, practice it out loud. And until it's. It's so effortless. It just comes off your tongue. Like the first time you said, I helped them fall in love with their ADHD brain. It probably didn't feel as effortless as it does now, um, because you'd said it many times. So let's go back to this structure. We've got every hero. Every story begins with a hero that has a problem. So many women with ADHD are embarrassed about it. And we want to keep this conversational because people can remember conversational much better than they can remember formal. So I want you to be able to say this at a coffee shop, at a cocktail party, or at a presentation.  Many women with ADHD are embarrassed about it and Keep it a secret. Something like that. Shorter is always better. I help them fall in love with their ADHD brain. So now what we've done is we've introduced you as the guide that has a solution. We always want to position our service as the solution to the problem. And then What we want to do, our job as, as the guide, think again, Yoda and Mr. Miyagi, we want to show them what's possible. Right now, they're stuck feeling ashamed about this. They can't imagine not being ashamed about it. I know I couldn't when I first got diagnosed.  And so our job as the guide is to really point to that mountain peak and say, this is what's possible for you.  This is, I have a. I have a greater vision for you because I've been there, I've done that and I know what's possible. Let me remind you and show you what's possible too.  And so the tail end of what we're creating here today, is your one liner and. A lot of people call it a one liner, some people call it an elevator pitch. I like to call it a very, very short story. In two sentences, it contains all the components of story. You start at the beginning of the story, you've got a middle to the story, and now we're going to tackle the end of the story, which is  painting a picture of a brighter future for your hero. What we want to brainstorm here is I help them fall in love with their ADHD brain so they can, so they can what? Like, what's possible for them once they fall in love with their ADHD brain? Just brain dump. I know what it is. So  What else? Um, so that they can be happy. So that they can feel inspired. So that they can feel worthy. That's awesome. So that they can recognize how brilliant their brain really is. Okay. So when we think about the mountain peak, we're literally, we're halfway up the mountain. We've just met the hero and we're telling them, Oh, I'm your guide. And what I do We'll offer you this solution so you can experience success. And so we want to go big here. I kind of like to go, go big or go home. Like, let's not play small with what's possible for you. We want to think big. And so that's why when you share, live to your full potential, that's big. But like, we can even go bigger. Let's just try this one on for size. Ooh, I'm going to get chills on this one. Okay. So, many women with ADHD feel shame about it. I helped them fall in love with their ADHD brain so they can know their worth, recognize their brilliance, and live to their fullest potential. Now you're talking about who you work with, the problem you solve, and showing them all the success that can happen for them. When they fall in love with their ADHD brain. I already wrote it out. I really like it. This is my first thought though is, you know when people do the elevator pitch thing and it just sounds so elevator pitchy, you know, like, yeah, it's not like it naturally came out of them. It's this thing they've memorized. Of course, I can never do that because I can't remember anything. Totally. Yes. How do you not make it come across like that?  Well, I think that what you're talking about is the elevator pitch. Like, The elevator pitch, that name has a, has a bad rap because it's salesy and because it's smarmy and we think about like going to buy a car or something. Like it can be, it just has a. bad connotation to it. And so that's why I always hesitate to use those words. When I talk about this work, it's really a story.  And so it's all about delivery. This truly is not at all an elevator pitch. An elevator pitch is about selling and convincing. What you're doing is sharing who you work with, the problem you solve and the benefits that they get to experience. And so it's not at all about sales. It's about simplifying the work that you do so it can land for somebody else. So they can really get it. And so they can engage with what you're talking about. And so let's just pretend you're at a coffee shop. And someone comes up to you and says, Hey, you know, Tracy. Hi, do you remember me? Like, what are you up to? I haven't seen you since college. And you can be like, Oh,  Oh, I've been, yeah, it's been a whirlwind, but, um, in the last 10 years, I've really found something that. It lights me up and, you know, a lot of women with ADHD, they feel a lot of shame about it. I help them fall in love with their ADHD brain so they can really know their worth, so they can recognize how brilliant they are and that they can live to their fullest potential too. And that's the work that I'm doing now that really matters to me. That doesn't feel salesy to me at all.  No, no. I think that's really good. And what I Especially realizing all of this is I didn't have that first part. I wasn't making it about them. Ultimately, it kind of did though, because they'd always be like, Oh, well, my wife has ADHD, or I know, or my daughter was just diagnosed, you know, many of them. Well, the ones that would be interested right away would jump in because it seems to be a subject everybody wants to talk about. And then you can tell the people who do, who, you know, they think ADHD, it's like a religion or something. They just don't believe in ADHD. So there's like dead silence. I'm like, Not my people. No, I, I think this is really good. Okay. So now I want you to tell us how do you then use this framework? Because I know the other thing you do is you really help us You give us a system to write within, and I know, I mean, I've written a book, and I still don't consider myself a good writer. I'm a fantastic editor, but I hate to write. It's like that structure, there's so many thoughts, and to organize it, it's literally painful. Thank God for ChatGPT, that's made it a little bit easier, because I can at least dump all my thoughts in there and ask it to create an outline. Um, Right. What advice do you have around that? Because it sounds like you had that struggle as well, but then do you have a natural, I mean, you consider yourself a writer? No. You have a natural aptitude? No.  I am a writer, but I have never officially, it took me many, many years to consider myself a writer because I've hated it my whole life, and I am ashamed to admit it that like in. College, I would get my boyfriend to pretty much write my papers for me. I relate to that  paralyzed feeling that happens when you have to write something and not only, and you're procrastinating, number one. And then when you actually sit down to do it, it's just you write a few things and no, no, no. Oh, what? This is awful. No, I can't. And it's just,  it's the worst. That's why for me, the framework has been so powerful because it all comes down to like with so many things like, okay, what kind of baby step can I take? What's just that next first baby step that I can take? And when you're writing, if you always begin with a hero that has a problem. So when you, I asked you, what do you, what do they tell you when you talk to them? What do they complain about? That's really what, in their words, what do they complain about? And When you're stuck writing something, that's always a great place to start. And that actually allows you to kind of get over that paralyzed hurdle. And we just created a very, very short story, right? It was two sentences long, but it had all the components of story. The framework works like an accordion. So, we were just in the most condensed form of story with your one liner. If you're writing a blog post or a social media post or you're writing a speech or a webinar, it broadens, it widens, you go deeper into the problem that the hero has. You go deeper into the solution that you are providing as the guide and you get to go deeper into this success. But you can Still follow the framework. And so it's just it's kind of like when somebody gives you a leg up when you're jumping over a fence It's like that's what the framework does it will get you unstuck And that's the hardest part. So when you are sitting down to write Anything that you're struggling with I mean, you know, not a not a simple email or whatever Do you always start with okay? Okay. Who's the hero? Is that literally your thought process? Yep. Okay. So number one is who's the hero? What's number two?  Who's the hero and what are they complaining about or what are they struggling with? Okay. What's the problem?  Okay. And then the solution? Then we want to know who's  guide? Okay. Who's the guide? And what is their solution? So that can come across. So for you, you say, I helped them fall in love with their ADHD brain. We're introducing you as the guide. We're not saying my name is Tracy and you could. You certainly could, but because we're trying to do a short version of it,  you just step in as the guide. I helped them fall in love with their ADHD brain. You know, nobody has to question who's the guide here. And so the guide has the solution and that is your solution. Helping them fall in love with their ADHD brain. Now, the way you solve that problem, you do it through your podcast. You do it through your book. You do it through your Facebook group. You probably do it with one on one clients. A lot of different avenues in which you do that, but this is the, the overarching umbrella of the work that you do. What I really love about this is, I know when I first, um, had a platform and everybody was telling me, you've got to get out there, you've got to get on video, you've got to be visible. And I just hated it. I don't know what it was. Like if you set, if you put me on a stage, I'm perfectly happy there because I can see the audience. But something about being online, you didn't know who was out there. It just freaked me out. It took me a whole year, you know, of doing all this, you know, taking all these programs where I did everything, but actually get on there and go live. But once what got me over it was this idea that forget about yourself. This is not about you. This is about them. Who's, whose life do you want to change today? Right? Because if I can get my message to just one person in everything that I do, the ripple effect then of them, you know, changing not only their life, but their kids lives, their, um, you know, family's life, their partner's life, their friend's lives, because whomever we tell. They tell more people. That just totally took the pressure off. And what you're talking about here in writing, it's the same deal. It's not about you, right? You're thinking about how do you help them.  Right. I love that. No, it's, it's such a load off. It's such a relief. And when, and when we're talking about, you know, the hero, the true hero of this story, which is not ourselves, we're always the guide. When. When we're talking about them, we have a lot more clarity around what they struggle with because we're not so close to it, right?  When it's your, you and yourself, we have that curse of knowledge again, or what I also call the bottle effect, which is we're really inside of a bottle, trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. And  does that make sense? Like, That's a really good analogy. We cannot get the distance that we need from ourselves to talk clearly about us. And so that's the other gift of storytelling is that it's actually about  who we work with. It's not about us. So we have clarity because we have perspective. The  other thing I saw that you wrote somewhere, I don't know if it was what you wrote to me directly or if it was also on your website that I could completely relate to, is that we struggle to write our own copy, so  we punt it to someone else who's a copywriter, and  We get back the work product and we're like, no, I mean, literally I would use copywriters as like the first edit and then I would go and just, you know, and I, I had a copywriter poor Esther who, you know, she'd write these emails for me and I would literally come in there and just trash them. And I kept telling her, it's not you, it's not you. It's just, this doesn't, this isn't me, you know? And I think especially with ADHD. We just have this need to be authentic. It's our voice and  so we can't just take anybody else's copy. So can you talk a little bit about that?  Yeah, I mean it's, it's a real pickle when you are self employed because  You know, I don't think anyone really realizes, when you become self employed, how much writing you actually have to do, like you said, the emails, and the websites, and the app,  it's all writing, and so,  when you reach a point where you're like, I'm done, like, I, I'm making enough money now I can invest in a copywriter and take this off my plate. And then exactly what you said, you get the copy back and it just doesn't feel aligned with your voice. It's like off, right? And you can't move forward with it because it's not aligned. And so the reality is you can't outsource your own voice. You can't, but  you know, and I've been, I've been in the industry now 23 years, so  I've been through that on both, on both sides of the coin. And that's why I developed my method of doing things because collaboration is the key. And I, and every client that I have struggles with that feeling of being paralyzed and not being able to do it themselves. And yet they also struggle with not being able to hire it out. So it's like, okay, well, what do you do? What you do is, Find a collaborative partner, somebody who knows how to pull the story out of you and can, together with you, craft that message so it feels really aligned and talk about an efficient way to write your copy. It's like, with ADHD, we talk a lot about patterns. Uh, body doubling and, and in a way it's like that. It's like you need a partner. You need somebody that knows story, that really knows how to clear the clutter and pull out the gold. I call it, I mine for gold. I mine for gold in my client's brains, the story is in there. My job is to pull it out and then we organize it using the story framework.  Because we're doing it together and refining together by the end, it feels perfectly, beautifully aligned with who you really are.  No, I, I think that makes perfect sense. Um, I can't,  I just wish I would have met you like that. Five years ago,  after going through all of this pain, because that's typically what happens, right? You just give all the information to a copywriter, they go away. And all of a sudden they just come back with here. And usually I can think of one copywriter I've worked with where I thought, okay, she gets it, but she also has ADHD. Um, but in general. Even if they have ADHD, they're not you, right? It's hard.  They're not you. You can't outsource your own voice. And even if you find someone who's great,  there's this very time consuming process of back and forth revisions, revisions, tweaks, revisions, back and forth, and then ultimately you kind of end up  putting in so much time into it by the time it gets to the finished product that you might as well have just written it yourself. Well, and then the other part of that what you just said is so true. I feel like I'm cheating  which is ridiculous But literally that's how I feel because again, it's my voice and we are just so you know All about originality and authenticity and that like, you know being who we really are Which I think makes it even worse, especially since we know that most of us, you know Either are entrepreneurs or want to be entrepreneurs, you know, so I love this. So what are the ADHD traits that you feel are responsible for your success?   Curiosity,  a genuine, genuine desire to help and make the world a better place. Love of learning,  always needing to feed my brain with  information. And so just continuing to get better and better and better at my own craft. I would say those are the ones like, I think fundamentally, I just, I genuinely love helping people. Oh, you know, I'm also a parent. And parenting can be  Yes, yes, that's correct. He's six and I love him dearly and  parenting can be really boring. I can get really bored at times with him. And I, for me, having good headphones with a podcast or an audio book or something that can give my brain. What it needs give my brain that bone to chew on can be a way for me to really comfort and take care of myself While I can also be with my kiddo, too I would say that has probably been like the thing that I've leaned on the most in the last six years  I would totally agree and there's something about society and That judges women who tell the truth and say that, Oh my gosh,  parenting is so boring. It's the same crap every single day. Right. And it doesn't end. You just start over the next day. And it's not that we don't absolutely love our kids, but for me, there just had to be something more than that. I had to be able to be learning about something. So I get it. I totally get it. And I love the, You know, having someone in your ears and you're learning something and it just, well, it spikes our dopamine. It totally does. And you know what? I've never actually shared that out loud, but thank you for, thank you for like, number one, asking the question, but also saying that you get that because it is, you know, it's nothing that I've ever shared before. So maybe it's not all that uncommon.  You know, I always, what I always said, you know, even when the kids were really little is I am not a sandbox mom. You are not going to catch me in the sandbox with the sand creating sandcastles or whatever, you know, I would be there and doing the other stuff, right?  If my kids ever need anything, if they need to talk about anything, if they need to process anything, that's when I'm right there in the sandbox. But the actual playing, I'm like, you've got your friends, go play with your friends, you know? So I totally get it. So Chris, are you working on something that you want to tell us about? You can send us to wherever you want to send us to  or both. Everything pretty much about me you can find on my website. So you can go to reddoordesigns.  com that's r e d d o o r designs d e s i g n s dot com. All my goodies are there. You can learn about how I work with my clients. Um, And I do have a freebie that will walk you through exactly what we did today. So if you want to kind of dip your toe in and apply storytelling to the work that you're doing, there's a free way to do that right there on my website.  That's on the home page. Yes. Okay. What is it called? It's called How to Write Compelling Copy in Five Minutes Flat. So it's a five minute video and a worksheet walking you through exactly what we did for you today. And you can do it on your own time. It won't take you more than five or ten minutes. And, um, it's a great way to kind of begin to think about your communication. In a different way about the hero and about you as the guide.  I love it. Chris Thank you so much for spending time with us here today. Thank you for having me. It was so fun.  Totally my pleasure So that's what I have for you for this week. If you like this episode with chris jones Please let us know by leaving a review. Our goal is to change the conversation around ADHD, helping as many women as we possibly can learn how their ADHD brains work so that they too may discover their amazing strengths. They're brilliance. Anyway, thank you so much for listening and I'll see you here next time. Next week,  you've been listening to the ADHD for smart ass women podcast. I'm your host, Tracy Otsuka join us at ADHD for smart women. com where you can find more information on my new book, ADHD for smart ass women, and my patented your ADHD brain is a okay system to help you get unstuck and fall in love with your brilliant brain.  If you've found value in today's episode of ADHD for Smartass Women and believe in what we're doing, please consider supporting the show with a one time or ongoing donation at spyhappy. me forward slash support.  We couldn't do it without you. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/workshop ### Title: Workshop: Tell Your Story. Make More Sales. ### Page ID: 5659254 ### Content: # One story can transform your entire business. # Let's write it together. ## How I replaced almost *all* of my marketing with a single story. #### 1\. Craft Signature Story #### 2\. Integrate Across All Platforms #### 3\. Connect With Audience #### 4\. Inspire Them to Take Action #### Your Signature Story is the missing piece that will give you your time back. #### Use it everywhere to sell *for* you 24/7 and attract new clients. ## This workshop will give you confidence and clarity in *every* area of your business. ### **Communicate with Clarity** ### **Increase Your Confidence** ### Know It's Done Right ### **Get Way More Clients** ### **Simplify Your Marketing** ### **Love Your Business** ## *I was able to grow my business 5x faster!* ## *I made 100k in just 93 days with my Signature Story!* ## Allow me to introduce you to, *future you*. #### Things are about to get *sooooo* much easier. ## You became a busine to have more freedom, but that's probably not how it feels. #### How many of these can you relate to? ## I understand the second guessing and frustration that comes with trying to write it yourself. ## Here's how this workshop is unique: #### **What did I learn working with these companies? The power of Story.** #### A GAME-CHANGING INVESTMENT ## Tell Your Story. Make More Sales. #### **A workshop for entrepreneurs who want to simplify all their marketing with a Signature Story that sells for** **you 24/7.** #### This isn't just about making more sales; it's about building authentic connections with potential clients who really need your help.  #### Join me, and let's craft a Signature Story that sells and truly aligns with the heart of your business. #### I look forward to meeting you and helping you turn your business narrative into your most powerful asset. See you there! #### **MARK YOUR CALENDAR!** ## What's it like to work with Kris? #### Let Donald Miller, author of Building a StoryBrand, tell you. ## I'm charging 6X more for the exact same service. #### **Within just a few weeks, my pipeline filled up and my revenue was 40% higher than my previous highest month!** ## This clarity has me closing 95% of my sales calls. #### **Crafting my Story helped me get clear in my own mind about what I do and how I do it. It's boosted my confidence and** **made me feel like an expert.** ## Here's how it works... #### Click below to secure your spot at the Workshop. #### Add the date and time to your calendar now so you don't miss it. #### Together, we'll craft your story so you can focus on what matters. #### **WORKSHOP:** #### July 30th from 10am — 1pm PT (1pm — 4pm ET) #### **FOLLOW UP Q&A SESSION:** #### Aug 1st from 10am - 11am PT (1pm - 2pm ET) #### *A recording will be sent to those who can't attend live.* #### *You'll also be able to email your questions to be answered in Q&A.* ## This isn't a passive experience. It's a workshop where you'll actively participate, crafting and refining your story with direct feedback and guidance from me. #### Because you don't need more information. You need actual help. ## It's a FREE-Bonus Palooza! #### YOU'LL ALSO GET: #### FREE BONUS - $500 Value ## Gather Powerful Testimonials That Sell ## Learn how to get amazing testimonials from your clients that do the selling for you. This simple training shows you how to collect feedback that convinces future clients they need to work with you. It's like having a sales team without paying for one. #### **FREE BONUS - $10,000 Value** ## Proven Sales Funnel Templates ## Use my ready-made templates to set up landing pages and sales pages that really work, all in less than an hour. These are the shortcuts you need for a sales process that helps you make money even when you're not working. #### **FREE BONUS - $500 Value** ## Headshot & Website Photos Made Easy ## Find out exactly which photos you need to look like the expert you are and instantly connect with potential clients. Give this guide to your photographer to make sure you get the right shots that help you stand out. ## It felt too good to be true, and yet is was true! #### **I wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own. If only I had invested in myself sooner. Now that I have the right words, I'm way more confident — and I use those words in everything I do!** ## Clients are already sold before I get on the call. #### **It was so easy for me because Kris did the heavy lifting. And yet, I was engaged in just enough to make sure the copy truly was aligned with my voice.** #### **AUTHENTICITY. CONNECTION. TRUST.** ## No icky selling tactics — guaranteed #### **My approach is based in authenticity, trust, connection and timeless storytelling methods that convert without all the pushy stuff.** ### Headache-Free Guarantee ### No Experience Needed Guarantee ## "It works! Within 24 hours of updating my site, a client booked my service without any sales call needed!" ## "*I love Kris Jones' work*" ## — Donald Miller, Author of Building a StoryBrand ## "My plate was full and I didn’t know where to begin. Writing my own Story kept falling to the bottom of my to-do list." #### "When I found Kris, I kept thinking “if this woman can sell me on her website, she can definitely sell my clients on mine”. #### I was so blown away by how quickly she put all the pieces together. I ended up with a strategic Signature Story that feels aligned and will help my business grow faster. ## My story is finally clear, consice and getting results. ## Such a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. ## The clutter is cleared and replaced with clarity. ## A comprehensive service at this price point is rare. ## Here's how it works... #### Secure your spot at the *Tell Your Story, Make More Sales* Workshop. #### Add the date and time to your calendar now so you don't miss it. #### Together, we'll craft your story so you can focus on what matters. #### *Don’t let another day go by with a message that doesn’t serve you.* ## Let me sing you a little ditty for making it all the way down here. #### P.S. I have a good feeling about "us". Don't you? **A workshop for entrepreneurs who want to simplify their marketing with a Signature Story that sells 24/7** *A recording will be sent to those who can't attend live. You'll also be able to email your questions to be answered in Q&A.* I distilled my brand's essence, and unique value into a compelling narrative that authentically resonates with my ideal client. I infused my Signature Story into all marketing platforms and materials, enhancing consistency, trust and recognition. I used my Signature Story in emails and podcasts, demonstrating how my story aligns with what my audience wants. I designed my Signature Story to lead to a strategic call to action that inspires leads to become paying clients that are excited to work with me. Avoid the frustration of miscommunication and learn to articulate your business's value clearly and compellingly. Approach sales and marketing with renewed confidence. Know that your message will resonate and attract more clients. Have an industry pro by your side so you have peace of mind it’s working. See dramatic improvements in your sales: Like Mike, who now charges six times more for the same service, and Andrea, whose close rate soared to 95%, With a powerful story, your marketing becomes streamlined. Less effort, more impact. Transform sales calls from a dreaded task into an enjoyable interaction. Feel the excitement as your story connects and converts. **People light up and lean in when you tell them what you do.** People "get" you and refer you to others who need you. **You enjoy sales calls 'cause you don't have to sell anymore.** Talking about your work ignites an engaging conversation. **You already have the words you need so writing feel simple.** You don't outsource copy because it's already done. **You proudly send people to your site because it's effective.** **You fumble your words when asked, "What do you do?".** **You rely solely on referrals which is unpredictable.** You cringe when someone asks for your website address. You get stuck and frustrated when writing for your business. You can't remember the last time you got a client from your website. **I know you want to be a successful entrepreneur who makes good money and stands out for their expertise.** In order to do that, you need to clearly communicate what makes you unique and why people should choose you. **The problem is, you don't have the amount of clients you need to reach your income goals.** This can leave you feeling discouraged — unsure why your efforts aren't getting you results. **I believe that simplicity is the key to a successful business.** **That's why I've spent the last 20 years honing my 'Less is More' approach to marketing.** I've made it my mission to help entrepreneurs like you build a profitable business with minimal effort. **Uncover Your Story:** We'll dive deep to reveal the powerful narrative already within you, setting the foundation for all your marketing. Leveraging your unique story to create connections, leading to more clients and consistent income growth. **Simplify to Amplify:** We cut through the clutter, focusing only on a strategy that genuinely resonates with your audience, saving you time and money. **Let's get back to the heart of why you started your business.** We'll infuse clarity, simplicity, and the power of your story into everything we do. Ready to simplify your path to success? Secure your spot at the workshop on July 30th at 10am PST. *A recording will be sent to those who can't attend live.* *You'll also be able to email your questions to be answered in Q&A.* Together, we'll walk through my streamlined process that's efficient and enjoyable. I'll be by your side every step of the way. I know exactly how to pull out the story out of your head and heart. "**Working with Kris turned things around for me and my business. Within the first week I had 3 prospective client calls booked!** (Normally I averaged 3 a month.) I was initially worried by the price tag but now see the immense value she provided. Getting just one new client more than covered my investment." "**I used to spend hours on sales calls and it was eating up a lot of my precious time.**  Kris helped me simplify my Story and create a clear message that resonates with potential clients. **A client just purchased my service without any sales call needed!** ​Now I can focus on work I love because my website does the selling for me." "I was initially hesitant because I had recently hired a writer who wrote in a style that just "didn't feel like me". Kris' thoughtful guidance made the process not only fast and painless, it was fun! **Kris restored my faith AND captured my voice to a T. I'm delighted with the results!**" Kris over delivered on her promise, she made the process so easy and so fast — I found I was enjoying the process. All I really did was answer some questions, (I didn’t even put much thought into how it sounded). Then, I just sat back and let Kris work her magic And the time she saved me was worth it's weight in gold. Now I can focus on the work I love while my Signature Story does the heavy lifting of attracting my ideal clients. Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/workshop-confirmation ### Title: Workshop Thank You ### Page ID: 5665077 ### Content: # Congrats, you're in! # Troubleshooting Welcome to Copy that Sells — Celebrate this investment in Yourself! *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) 1. **Login** 2. **Watch the videos and fill out the intake.** 3. **Share your doc with me** - Check your email to access your *Copy That Sells* log in details. - [**Click Here**](https://offers.reddoordesigns.com/updateinfo/221395/) [to access your account](https://offers.reddoordesigns.com/updateinfo/221395/) - Search for the word "ThriveCart" to find your invoice. - Check your Promotions and Spam folders. - Click on red link at bottom of your invoice. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/freedom15 ### Title: Freedom15 ### Page ID: 5696426 ### Content: # I help coaches strategically take a year off Instagram. ## Most coaches feel like they have to endlessly post on instagram to get new clients. #### Are you struggling with... ## You deserve to spend your time on the things that matter most. ### **Get Your Time Back** ### **Attract More Clients** ### **Feel Confident & Clear** ## Imagine... #### No more endless posting, no more frustration. Just a simple, effective strategy that frees up your time and boosts your results. ## Here's the challenge: ## It's like trying to read a label from inside the bottle.  ## I get it. The constant pressure to keep posting is exhausting. ## Here’s what makes my approach unique: #### A GAME-CHANGING INVESTMENT ## *Introducing...*The Freedom 15 #### The 15 posts you need to turn Instagram into a selling machine while strategically taking a year off posting. #### **Invest in the Freedom 15** #### **Attract New Clients** #### **Enjoy a Year Off Posting** #### YOU'LL ALSO GET THESE FREE BONUSES: #### FREE BONUS - $500 Value ## Effortlessly Gather Powerful Testimonials That Sell ## Learn how to get amazing testimonials from your clients that do the selling for you. This simple training shows you how to collect feedback that convinces future clients they need to work with you. It's like having a sales team without paying for one. #### **FREE BONUS - $10,000 Value** ## Proven Sales Funnel Templates ## Use my ready-made templates to set up landing pages and sales pages that really work, all in less than an hour. These are the shortcuts you need for a sales process that helps you make money even when you're not working. #### **FREE BONUS - $500 Value** ## Headshot & Website Photos Made Easy ## Find out exactly which photos you need to look like the expert you are and instantly connect with potential clients. Give this guide to your photographer to make sure you get the right shots that help you stand out. # "Peace with Instagram at last! This course relieved so much social media stress*.*" ## What's it like to work with Kris? #### Let Donald Miller, author of Building a StoryBrand, tell you. #### **AUTHENTICITY. CONNECTION. TRUST.** ## No icky selling tactics — guaranteed #### **My approach is based in authenticity, trust, connection and timeless storytelling methods that convert without all the pushy stuff.** ### Headache-Free Guarantee ### No Experience Needed Guarantee ### Love your Instagram Strategy Guarantee ## In 4 simple steps, you'll have strategic StoryBrand copy that sells — so you can do what *you* do best. ## Here's how it works: ### 1\. Intake #### **Answer some simple questions about your business.** #### 2\. Write ### **I'll write your sales page so you know it's done right.** ### 3\. Collaborate #### We'll collaborate to ensure your copy is aligned with your voice and the nuances of your industry. ### 4\. Amplify #### **Enjoy a brand story and copy that gets you more clients and amplifies revenue!** ## Don’t keep wasting your precious energy endlessly posting. ## "*I love Kris Jones' work*" ## — Donald Miller, Author of Building a StoryBrand ## FAQ'S **Turn instagram into an automated selling machine that frees up your time and boosts your results.** **What did I learn working with these companies? The power of Story.** **The constant pressure to post more, feeling like a never-ending task.** Being exhausted from the effort with no clear results. **The fact that people don't really "get" what it is that you do.** Putting your head in the sand and not posting when you know you should. **As a self-employed expert, you're too close to your own business to talk about it clearly** — which makes it literally impossible to get the perspective needed to create clear and compelling copy. That's why *Copy That Sells* is so effective, because you have an expert providing the guidance, clarity and perspective needed to make sure it's done right. **You dream of being a successful business owner with plenty of free time.** To do this, you need an Instagram strategy that actually works. **But here's the problem:** most entrepreneurs are stuck in a cycle of posting without seeing any real results. It's draining. It's frustrating. It feels like you're throwing content into a void, hoping for a miracle. I get it. **The constant grind of creating content that doesn’t convert is exhausting.** But I believe every entrepreneur deserves an Instagram strategy that runs on autopilot and delivers tangible results. That's why I've dedicated the last 20 years to my ‘Less is More’ approach to marketing. My mission is simple: **to help business owners like you transform their Instagram presence into a lean, mean, selling machine**.  **Less is More:** Achieve more with fewer posts. My strategy turns just 15 posts into a year's worth of client-generating content. **Story-Driven:** I harness the power of storytelling to build authentic connections and engage your audience on a deeper level. **Simplicity:** With 20 years of industry experience, I know how to eliminate the noise and create a clear, effective message that resonates and builds trust. Imagine turning your Instagram into an client-generating tool that works for you, even when you're off enjoying your free time. Take the first step towards Instagram freedom and invest in your freedom today. Reclaim your time and boost your business. This course is designed specifically to maximize your Instagram impact with minimal effort. Kris will write and design 15 posts that will turn instagram into a powerful, year-long marketing engine that gets potential clients excited to work with you. Your Instagram will work for you around the clock, allowing you to focus on what you love while your business grows. The Freedom 15 was a game-changer! It was incredibly easy to implement and felt very me. I love seeing my new, effective grid come to life. Peace with Instagram at last! Kris's course opened my eyes and relieved so much social media stress. Kris's approach was just what I needed. Less posting, more results, and finally, time to focus on what I love about my business. Walk through my streamlined process that's efficient and enjoyable. I'll be by your side every step of the way. I know exactly how to pull out the story out of your heart and into instagram. The strategy will be aligned with your voice and effectively attract your ideal clients. Answer a handful of prompts while watching my cliff notes version of StoryBrand — so you can make smart copy decisions that guarantee a return on your marketing dollars. Get a massage or enjoy a long lunch with friends while I get busy leveraging 20 years of experience to map out the exact words for your website and your brand story — so you know it’s done right. On our 90-minute collaboration call via Zoom, we'll review and refine your brand story and sales page copy until it's perfectly compelling and set up to sell. Your new sales page copy will sell for you 24/7 so you can focus on the things you enjoy. Plus, you'll have all the language you need to create any future marketing materials! **Together, let’s implement a streamlined, automated Instagram strategy so you can attract clients effortlessly and enjoy more free time.** The Freedom 15 course is a bite-sized training program designed to help entrepreneurs transform their Instagram strategy, turning just 15 posts into a powerful, automated client-attracting tool. This offer is ideal for entrepreneurs and business owners who are tired of endlessly posting on Instagram without seeing results and want to streamline their social media strategy. Do I need any prior experience with Instagram marketing? No prior experience is necessary. The course is designed for all levels, providing clear, step-by-step instructions that anyone can follow. What exactly will I learn in the Freedom 15 course? You will learn how to create impactful Instagram posts, leverage storytelling for deeper connections, optimize your profile, and set up an automated strategy that attracts clients for an entire year with just 15 posts. How is this course different from other Instagram marketing courses? The Freedom 15 focuses on simplicity and efficiency. Unlike other courses that may require constant posting and interaction, this course teaches you how to achieve significant results with minimal effort. Will I need to purchase any additional tools or software? The course includes all the strategies and templates you need. While there may be recommendations for useful tools, no additional purchases are required to implement the core strategies. Results can vary, but many participants begin to see increased engagement and client inquiries within the first few weeks of implementing the strategies. Is there any support available if I have questions or need help? Yes, the course includes an option to add a feedback session with Kris's eyes on your instagram We offer a satisfaction guarantee. If you complete the course and implement the strategies but don’t see any results, you can contact us within 30 days for a full refund. Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/blissful-biz-podcast ### Title: Storytelling: The Secret to Attracting Your Dream Clients with Susanne Rieker and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 5863474 ### Content: ## Storytelling: The Secret to Attracting Your Dream Clients, with Susanne Rieker and Kris Jones Storytelling: The Secret to Attracting Your Dream Clients with Susanne Rieker and Kris Jones In a recent conversation with Susanne Rieker, we explored the power of stories that stick in business. This episode offers a fresh perspective on crafting messages that resonate deeply with your audience and build trust. Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:  ? How to use a single story in all areas of your marketing —without sounding like everyone else.  ? How to make your website do the heavy lifting of selling for you, so you don't have to. ? A peek into a framework that's helped brands like Nike and Adidas captivate their markets. Running a business is non-stop, and I understand the overwhelm of trying to figure it all out by yourself. That's why I’m excited to share practical strategies that streamline your marketing, enhance client engagement and free up your time to focus on what you love doing. Don't we all hope that people who find us, who come upon our homepage, and they're our dream clients, that they see what we do and immediately go, oh yeah, she's the one to help me.  Big thing to help with that is storytelling. More precisely, telling your story. And this is what we're covering in this episode. I'm talking to Kris Jones, a story brand guide and founder of Red Door Designs, mentored by the author of Building a Story brand, Donald Miller himself, and with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike and Adidas under her belt, I'm She is extremely passionate about helping coaches and service providers replace all of their marketing with a single story so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best.  Welcome to the Blissful Biz Podcast, the show where we explore how to build an online business that's simple, sustainable, and profitable without the hustle and no matter your age. I'm your host, Susanne Reiker, and my mission is to help you package your expertise and create a blissful, highly profitable online business that aligns with your passions and values. In this podcast, I share practical, actionable advice, as well as insights from my own business journey and the valuable lessons I've learned building my online business. If you're ready to build a business that brings you both bliss and success, you are in the right place.  Hey, Chris, welcome to the Blissful Biz Podcast. Ah, thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here, Susan.  So, why don't we dive in on you. Tell us a little bit more about who you are, what you do,  your journey.  I have been an entrepreneur for over 20 years. It's just in my, in my blood. And what I do is I help entrepreneurs tell a story that really attracts the right clients. So a lot of, a lot of my clients feel stuck or ashamed of their website and I help them really get clear on the story first. And once we get clear on the story, then we can apply that to the website and all other areas of their marketing. And so it allows my clients to really do the work that they love because their story is the one that's doing the heavy lifting of selling for them.  I love that so much because I 100 percent agree that when it comes to your website and I design websites too, I love beautiful websites, but the words on it, they are what really matters.  They really are. I mean, even, even if you think about, you know, shopping on Amazon,  You go to a product and you might look at a picture of the product, but you don't decide to buy that product until you actually read the comments that people have said and the reviews that people said, and it's, it's really the words that are the thing that get us to the point of enough trust and confidence to move forward and make a purchase.  So how did you  end up with that niche? What was your journey there? Well, I, I started out in branding and advertising and early in my career, I got to work at Nike and got to just really get experienced in visuals and visual storytelling. And I always felt like, you know, I'm a visual person that, that creativity has always come naturally to me, but fast forward, you know, 10 ish years, a lot of my clients were asking me to, I was at that point no longer at Nike and working in my own boutique design firm. And I was doing a lot of website work and I was really focused on the design of things and I would tell my client like, okay, your copy, you need to write the copy for your website, it's due on this date. And I had one client in particular, her name was Elise and she had a background in publishing and she had a new. Course that she wanted to sell. And so she's like, Oh, no problem. I got this. I'll I'll write the website. I have a background in publishing. And so her copy was due to me on like April 3rd. And then I was going to take the next few weeks and really design the site. And she called me on that morning and she was just, just frazzled, just  really frustrated, defeated. And she was like, I don't know what is going on, but I cannot write  these words. Like everything I write, I'm second guessing it. It doesn't feel right. I've hired multiple copywriters to help me and do it for me. And that didn't feel right either. And she was just completely and totally stuck. And. The reality was like, she was so close to her own business that she couldn't get the clarity and perspective she needed to, to write about it clearly. It's not really a writing problem. It's a perspective problem. And, and then when she tried to outsource it, you can't outsource your own voice when you are the face of your business, you are the business,  your voice can never be outsourced, it will never feel quite right. And so  it, a lot of my clients were in this pickle of like, they couldn't write it themselves, but they couldn't, it didn't feel right to outsource it. And so I just made it my mission. Like, and the truth is like, she was not the only client that I was working with that was struggling with this. So I just made it my mission. I said, I am not letting this happen again. So I am, I'm going to figure out how to solve this problem. And I just took the next. year or more just to delve deep into storytelling, storytelling, digital storytelling, brand storytelling, like how to really tell a story that feels authentic, but also does really hard work. You know, so much of the copy on websites these days. There's copy there, but it's not actually working for you to really get you new clients. And so  one of the things that I did, I flew across the country, I took workshops, I became a story brand guide.  Even before the book, Building a Story Brand came out, I was, I was one of the very first guides and I started to apply  storytelling.  Methodologies and frameworks to my own business and also to my clients, because once you know how to tell a story, you can't not do it. You know, I just like literally every project I've ever worked on since then, that's what I do. And it was shocking to me what was happening in my own business. I was having people. Look at my website, call me and say, I'm taking the train into Portland. We, I want, I want to meet you. I want to work with you. And that happened multiple times. I was getting booked out.  My sales calls were not even sales calls anymore. They were just really talking with potential clients that were already sold on working with me. And,  and the same thing was happening for my clients where they were one in particular, he was able to charge six times more for the exact same service. And that's just because  we gave him the words that he needed to communicate his value and attract the right higher paying client that appreciated the The work that he could do people, clients were calling me and saying, like, I've got a record number of lead calls booked this month. I'm like making tens of thousands of dollars more each month than I was before. It was just like  almost hard to believe, really, but, but that's the power of story. And it's, The thing that's so great about story when you do it right is it's timeless, like as humans we're wired for story. And so it never goes in and out of like fashion because it's inherent in who we are as humans. It's about creating connection and story is just, what was the other point I was going to make? It's timeless. And I forgot my second point. It'll come back to me. Yeah. I had a question here.  Actually, just to clarify for people, you know, who are not familiar with  Storybrand and what Story is, what part, because it's not like, you know, writing the copy for the website. Right, right, right, right. So I did remember my point. The thing I love about Story is that it's really all about psychology. It's about tapping into our brain, our like different parts of our brain that make decisions. And so I love the power of it in that way. Right. And when I talk about story,  I'm really talking about crafting a narrative. What I like to do for my clients is create one signature story for the business. And when I talk about signature story, I'm not talking about your founders, the founders history. I'm talking about a signature story where your client plays the hero in the story and you play the guide in the story. It's really a narrative where your clients can envision themselves working with you and what that would be like. And it's a completely different way to, it's a completely different from the way most people are doing stories online. But it's definitely not like a new invention. It's the same, it's the same formula or it's the same framework that every book, every movie, every story you've ever heard follows the same kind of fundamental flow. And so when you take that and apply it to your website or you apply it. To a video script that you write, or I apply my signature story in my sales calls. I, I infuse it into everything that I do. It's, it's the same story in my social media and my LinkedIn, in my conversations. It's always the same story. Can you share that as an example? So it's a little bit more real.  So when I, when I talk about story, I'm saying. Every story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. That hero is your client. They have a problem they don't know how to solve. So they're out and about trying to, on the internet, usually trying to solve this problem. They're looking for a guide, which is you as the business owner. You are the guide. They're looking for a guide who can solve the problem for them. Popular guides would be like a Mr. Miyagi in.  a Karate Kid or Yoda in Star Wars or Hamitch in Hunger Games.  They're looking for a guide who's been there, done that, knows how to solve the problem. That is you. And the guide's job is to really show them what's possible for them, show them what success can look like, and then guide them to achieve that.  So that is really the framework of story. And when I, when I create stories for my clients, it's really following that framework. It's like honing in on who's the hero of this story. What are the struggles that they have? How do you, as the guide, how can you show up with empathy and authority to really  let them know that they can trust you? And that you've, you've got them and that they are the most important thing. So many times online, when we go to a website,  whoever that person's website, it is wants to talk a lot about themselves and  what we really want to do differently there is really show the hero that they're first and foremost, that we care about their struggles and we care about their success more than we care about ourselves and our fancy way of solving their problem.  Yes, I love that. I mean, it's like what most people learn to do on sales pages, but not anywhere else really, right? So what I meant really was like an example, like really the words that you are using, for example, on your website.  Oh, well, I mean, how does it basically manifest or? Yeah, I mean, the short version of it, so your story should really work like an accordion. It's how you have short versions of it and you have lengthier versions of it. And so the shorter version of, of the story, I call a one liner. It's actually two sentences, but it's really the fundamentals of what you do, the problem you solve, who you help and the success that you provide. So mine, mine would be something like. Many, many entrepreneurs feel stuck with a website they're embarrassed about. I helped them tell a story that truly connects with their ideal clients so they can increase revenue, work less and love their job again. Something like that. Like that's an example. Notice I started that with the hero and the problem that they had. And I'm partway through the story. I say, I helped them tell a great story that truly connects. That's, that's me introducing myself as the guide with my solution. And then I get right back to the hero and, and communicate what their success is. So if that is like the nugget of my story, and then if you go to my website, it's  an expansion of that as if you're thinking about an accordion, it, the story doesn't change. I just go deeper into each of those sections. Yeah, I think that's the challenge because it's easy. I think for people to get, they get that concept and then they start and just sound like everybody else, like, yeah, as a business coach, I help you get to six figures, boring.  Yeah.  So I guess that's where your work comes in and your support. So where do you start? What's like you, like the framework, how people get started on their journey?  Well, I have a freebie that will help you get started. You can go to reddoordesigns. com. And there's a freebie there called how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. It comes with a five minute video and a worksheet and essentially you could just keep duplicating that worksheet for any time you need to write anything for your business or just go back to that one worksheet because the groundwork that you do there. Is always going to be the foundation of your story, but essentially to get started, you'd want to do something like that, or you'd want to just grab a piece of paper or open up a document and identify who are you working with? Who are these people? Are they? People over 40 that are, you know,  struggling with their health or  so you want to do it. The first two things you want to do is who are you working with and what are they struggling with? Those, that's the two, that's the most important thing that you can possibly do. Because when you can articulate their struggle. They feel seen, they feel heard, but most importantly, they feel like you're the best one to solve this problem for them. So, there's so much power in just articulating their struggle and taking the time to do that. It's not being negative, it's really just letting them know they're in the right place. And then,  your job is to really  briefly communicate how do you solve that problem. I, for, in my example, like, I help people tell a story. Online that makes them feel more confident, or you can go about it any number of ways. But the thing I want you to remember is it doesn't need to be very long or complicated. We get very excited about the way we solve our clients problems, but I want everyone to kind of like simmer down and just make it simple. I help them tell a story that sells. That's what mine could be. Yeah. And that's what also have your, on your website is how to tell it in a video, right?  Yeah. Is this something that you recommend, like that people have like a video on their home page, I don't get, I've always planned to do it. I tell my clients to do it.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, coming and going back to that accordion, your video is so incredibly important on your homepage because people are wanting to get a sense of who you are and still photography just doesn't communicate your tone, your energy, your overall vibe. The way that video does, like when I get on the phone with potential clients, they feel that they already know me, and that's really a wonderful place to be in because you get to jump over that initial like, let me tell you all about myself and let's get to know each other. They, they're already there because they've watched several videos of me before they've even gotten on a phone call, so. The video is, I can't remember the exact number, but it's something like conversion rates go up like 22,  22 times or 22%, something like that. It's kind of ridiculous how, what a difference video can make on your homepage. And it does so much of that work for you. And you're not reinventing a new story. We're just repurposing your story in a, in more of a spoken, casual way. In your video script with my clients. I always write their video script every time. Okay, let's make this actionable. Help me create the video script for me, for my business. Oh my gosh, well, it's a little, it's a little, it's not  that simple. Yeah, of course not. It's not that simple. It'd be just like an overview, basically, for me. Yeah, I mean, it really, like, I'm gonna keep beating the same drum. It goes back to storytelling. There's no new or different way of telling a story. Every story begins with a hero that has a problem. They don't know how to solve. So they are out and about looking for a guide who can give them a clear plan. That's going to allow them to not only be successful, but also avoid failure. And so if you just take those components and write your script. About that, it's going to work really well,  like it would take me time to really work with you on, we can't just write it here on the podcast, but it really, your video script would start with your potential, with your clients, like what are they struggling with?  I always like to start my video scripts with like an aspirational identity. Like who do they want to become? And that's where we start. I know you want to become an entrepreneur who is, you know, free and,  you know,  entrepreneur as successful entrepreneur, who's not limited by geography or whatever they're looking for. So you want to start with their aspirational identity.  And then we want to get into,  but the, the, in order to do that, in order to be a successful entrepreneur, you need to, what, what is it that you help your clients do? Like insert that there. And then, and then we introduced the problem. The problem is most entrepreneurs feel like whatever they're, they don't, they feel like they don't have the freedom that they want, or most entrepreneurs Don't have the confidence to,  you know, dive into the digital nomad lifestyle. And then you move into introducing yourself as the guide. I  like, I believe, what do you believe that they deserve? I believe every entrepreneur deserves to feel free freedom, geographic freedom and abundance, no matter what stage of business they're in. And then you move into, you know, that's why I've made it my mission to do the work that I do. So you can success, whatever that success is. So it's truly just following the story framework. Over and over and over again.  How long should it be? Do you have some like best practices there to share? Yeah. One minute to one and a half minutes at the most.  It's. Interestingly enough, it's like, it's less, it's, let me put it this way. It's important what you say, but the, what the video really does is show them that you care about them more than you care about yourself. And it also gives them a sense of your energy and your vibe.  And those two things are really, really important.  And it's pretty incredible that that can come across authentically on a website.  Yes. And I mean, it's great that we have, that the technology makes it so easy these days to do that. And I think it's weird to expect people to buy from us, like sign up for coaching or whatever, when they've never seen you on a video.  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that, that's why it increases conversions at such a high rate is because. It's almost like you're having a bit of a sales call with them where you're getting to know each other, but it's just working for you on autopilot. That video is just  really doing the heavy lifting for you. And that's what my mission is just like, how can we put simple tools in place that are uncomplicated to do all the heavy lifting of selling so you can just do the work that you love to do. And not feel like you have to constantly sell like no, nobody, none of us want to be in that position. That's the worst part of being an entrepreneur. I know it's like the hardest part. Everybody's like happy creating offers or trainings or you're like, of course, serving your clients. But then selling yourself,  I think what people sometimes need to embrace a little bit more that it's a skill that you can learn that you are, that most people are not born being naturally good sellers. It's not like, and to be a little bit more mindful of that negative self talk.  That's happening there. Well, the beautiful thing about story is that when you have your signature story dialed in, you don't have to sell. It does that for you. So you don't even have to learn that skill. All you have to do is Know that you have a story, feel confident in that story, have the right words that you know that feel aligned with you and resonate with you. It's not selling anymore, you're just letting them know, like, hey, this is who I work with, I, I understand your struggle, here's what's possible for you. And here's how I solve the problem. It's, it's like, you actually get to remove all the selling. The selling part. You're still the marketing. You want people to see that message. That's still, yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. You still need to market. A lot of people are really uncomfortable on camera, right? So like they're filming themselves and they're nervous. And then, and then when they read from the script, you see it, you hear it. Do you have some tips for there? How people can improve? I do, I do. Yeah. There's a, there's a company called BigView, B I G V U, online. I, I don't know if they have any free accounts, but I, I think they might have a free account if you're okay with a watermark. But you can upload a script to them,  and they have a teleprompter app inside their software, their program, and so they'll record your video and play the, the teleprompter, and then you can click on a feature. This is a paid feature, but you click on this. thing called eye contact, and it moves your eye  so it's looking right at the camera. And just that, like, makes such a huge difference. Like, it's, when you're watching somebody read a script and you can watch their eyes going left and right, it just doesn't feel good. Yeah, and it takes practice. Even using a Tinder prompter, it takes a lot of practice. To do that naturally. Yeah. I know I used Descript for recording my trainings and podcasts. They have that feature too now. They do. With the audio movements, but yeah, it's still like looking like at your phone or something in your hand. It's still not going to work. Dude, does Descript have the teleprompter inside of it? No, I don't think they have that feature. I don't know. I've never looked for it. So, yeah, I don't think they do. I don't think, I don't think they do, but I, I have definitely downloaded my big view  recordings and then uploaded them to Descript. I love Descript for editing. I think it's just, yes, it's amazing. And then you can just delete like single words or the filler words and phrases. And yeah, yeah. That's really, yeah. I think between those two tools, that's really all you need. To create a video that's just feels good. No one's looking for  really high production level in your video. I think like, they want to be able to hear the words that's really important. But as far as like lighting goes and like, it does not need to feel professionally filmed at all. You could go into zoom and just hit record and that would be just fine production values. So I just want to take the pressure off of everybody because. There's already enough pressure to like do the video, just don't worry about it being super high quality. People just want to get a sense of like your, your voice. Yes. And it's just like, get started, put it out there. Not going to be on your website forever. And it's like, you get better with practice. Yes. It's so true. It's so true. Yeah. No, I love that. So that was really, really helpful. And then, so you use that story,  how would you use it on social media or in your content as well? Create content around it as like the foundation for everything then? It really, it really truly is. Like I know I sound like I'm beating a dead horse because I am. You, the more you tell the same cohesive story  everywhere online, the more quickly people begin to trust you and remember what you do. People need to be exposed to information about eight times before they can commit it to memory. So that same story, that same one liner that I shared with you, I would put that on my social media profiles as my bio, and I'd put it on my LinkedIn, I would put that in my email signature below my name, so every email that goes out. Communicates  what I'm doing, what I'm about, the problem that I solved, who I help. And so you want to just  say the same story over and over, and I know it sounds boring and redundant, but I can't tell you, like, how freeing it is when you feel like you don't have to constantly generate something new. That being said back to the, the accordion metaphor.  That those core components of your story, the hero, the problem, the guide, the plan, and the, and the success, those core components work like an accordion. So if you're on social media and you're wanting to post something, you follow those components. You just go deeper into the hero. You go deeper into the problem and you go deeper into the, you can expand. If it's a blog, it can be. More expansive, like an accordion, or if it's a medium sized post, it can be this long. But, depending on where the story lives, You go into more detail in each of those sections, if that makes sense. Yes, it sounds so easy, but I know it's not when you get into the details. Where are people most struggling with? The, the, the issue is perspective. People really struggle to write their own copy because they're just so close to their own business. I call this the bottle effect. Because it's like you're inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the bottle. And so when my clients come to me and they're frustrated and they're beating themselves up for not being able to write this,  I tell them it's nothing to do with your writing capability, nothing to do at all. It's about perspective. It's impossible to get out of the bottle when you're, you're inside it. And so that's why it's helpful to have  You know, to work with somebody like me who understands story and can come and look at your business with fresh eyes. The other thing that happens is  a lot of my clients have what I call the curse of knowledge which just means they're really into what they do. They've been doing it for many years. And so they forget what it's like to not know what they know now. And so they tend to like speak over  their, their leads heads or use terminology that. They don't understand. And so we just want to be as simple, clear, simple, clear all the way. So I think the main thing they struggle with is just trying to do it themselves. It's not one particular part of the story that's hard. It's all of it because your story is so close to you. It's like it's in you. And so you really need somebody to Be able to like,  to be able to ask you the right questions in order to pull that story out. That's what we need.  Yeah. I thought, I would have thought that a struggle that people have is also like  choosing a problem and not trying to solve like 10 problems at the same time or. Choosing a group of people who are you helping and I'm for everybody doing everything for everybody.  Sometimes, I mean, I, I always encourage people to brain dump, brain dump the struggles and the problems that your clients are having. What are they complaining to you about when you get on the phone with them? And usually when you brain dump a handful of those, there's one that kind of  bubbles up to the top. As the overarching problem  in your story, it doesn't mean that you can only address one problem. There's typically an overarching problem and then underneath the overarching problem, there's multiple bullets of nuanced variations of that, right? So  your story doesn't have to be limiting in that way.  Thank you. That was really, really helpful and really interesting. So where can people go to learn more about you and your process? So everything about me you can find at RedDoorDesigns.  com. That's R E D D O O R D E S I G N S dot com. And you can go to my website. I can,  I can write your signature story for you. Feel free to book a money making messaging call with me. You can also on that website, get my freebie, which is how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. If you are just still wanting to DIY it, that would be the best freebie that you can get. Thank you so much. I definitely add the links to the show notes. So is there anything else you wish I would have asked you?  All that you wanted to talk about,  not that I can think of. I mean, the main thing I just want to get across is that like, it's hard to write your own copy because of the bottle effect. And so  it's almost like the, the better writer you are, the harder it is because you think you should be able to do it yourself. And it's just.  It's really about perspective. It's not about having to muscle your way through it alone. Get help if you, if you're struggling, get help. You don't have, you know, this does not have to be hard.  But thank you. That was really, really inspiring. I definitely put it back on my to do list, filming a video, creating the script. And also for my saves pages, because even then, yeah, yeah, yeah. It will make a difference. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. It was really fun.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/privacy-policy ### Title: Privacy Policy ### Page ID: 6047286 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/terms-of-service ### Title: Terms of Service ### Page ID: 6085477 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/disclaimer ### Title: Disclaimer ### Page ID: 6085502 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/chaos-to-conversations ### Title: How to Use Storytelling in Your Business, with Melanie Battistelli, Branda Villacob and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6321619 ### Content: ## How to Use Storytelling in Your Business ## The Chaos to Conversations Podcast, with Kris Jones, Melanie Battistelli and Branda Villacob How to Use Storytelling in Your Business, with Melanie Battistelli, Branda Villacob and Kris Jones Have you ever wondered how to create marketing that actually works without sounding like a used car salesman? ? The fix is more straightforward than you think. I recently spoke with Melanie and Branda on the Chaos to Conversations Podcast, and we explored the power of storytelling in marketing. This episode is packed with valuable insights for coaches, consultants, and service providers, offering new perspectives on how to craft a story that helps you stand out in a crowded market (and get new clients on autopilot) ? How to connect with potential clients by focusing on this one simple thing. ?️ The easy, peasy 3-step plan that makes your marketing get results Running a business can feel so overwhelming at times. That's why I'm excited to share simple ways to help you attract more clients and give you more time to focus on what matters most. You've been told you need a brand story or that you should use storytelling in your copy, but it's easier said than done, especially if you don't have a crazy wild story to tell. Today, we're chatting with Kris Jones, a story brand guide, who's sharing what storytelling actually means and how you can craft a story that sets you apart. Kris Jones is a story brand guide and founder of Red Door Designs. Mentored by the author of building a story brand, Donald Miller himself with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike and Adidas under her belt. She's extremely passionate about helping coaches and service providers replace all of their marketing with a single story so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. Kris has been able to achieve incredible transformations for her clients, including increased revenue by 300%, record breaking lead calls and clients booked, scaling from 30k months to 300k months, charging six times more for the same service. Kris believes that writing copy for your own business doesn't have to feel like torture. In fact, once you know how to tell a compelling story, it can actually be fast, easy.  Being an online business owner is full of ups and downs. Some days you can't imagine going back to your nine to five and other days you want to burn your whole business to the ground. We get it. Welcome to Chaos to Conversions, a podcast of practical, no BS strategies to grow your online business. Each week we're chatting about launching, copywriting, mindset, and more so you can make sense of the chaos and do more of what works. Hi everybody. Welcome back to Chaos to Conversions. Today we have Kris Jones with us and we are so beyond excited to Talk with her as some of you know, probably Branda is a copywriter, but me, Melanie, I am not one. So any  advice that I can get about storytelling or how to make your messaging or marketing better. I am all for, and that is exactly what Kris specializes in. So welcome to the show, Kris. Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. We're super excited too. So. Let's just dive right in. I just am wondering how you would go ahead and actually define storytelling. If somebody said, Hey, Kris, like I know that I need storytelling in my marketing. How would you define that for somebody? I'm so glad you're asking this question because  as much as We have stories in our lives. There's a lot of confusion around what it really means to tell a story, especially in your business and telling a story in your business is.  I mean, the fundamentals are the same, the flow and the formula is the same as any movie you've ever been to, any book you've ever read, any story anyone's ever told you. But when we're in a business situation, well, let me tell you the formula first.  Every story you've ever heard begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. They meet a guide who has a solution to their problem that can help guide them to success and avoid failure. And when we follow that story formula in our business, We are, as the business owner, we are the guide in that story. We are not the hero of that story. And I think a lot of what a lot of business owners get wrong is they unintentionally make themselves the hero of their own story. And I get why this happens. You know, you're required to have a website. So you're like, okay, this is my website. I guess I need to talk about myself. And then you talk, you know, you talk about yourself and there's nothing wrong with talking about yourself, but what's more effective as far as When you're, if you're wanting to get clients and you're wanting a website, that's actually going to make you money. You really want the hero to be the central figure in your story. And that hero is always your client. So you want to  start your story out with the problem that they don't know how to solve, really showing them that you get the nuances of their struggle.  where they feel stuck when you can really articulate that they feel seen, they feel heard. They feel like you understand them. They feel like you're the right guide to help them find the solution to where they're struggling.  I feel like that helps so much. And I don't know how I've made it like, four plus years in business without anyone explaining it to me that way. Something we didn't talk about before we went live is, Branda's actually a former English teacher and I used to teach English in history as well. So I feel like the story formula, like, I don't know why I never thought of it that way. That's, that's makes so much sense.  Yeah. And, you know, when you really think of it that way, it, you kind of, I watch movies differently than I ever have before because of that. I'm always like, Oh, there's the hero. There's the guide. Here's the plan that the guide's going to give the hero to inspire that hero to take action and  all the, the different core components of the story. They're everywhere.  Yeah. And I feel like it's also very empowering too, which I think we're putting our like  our potential customer at the center of that. We're saying like, here is why I'm the right person for you. And like, they feel that connection with us. It like empowers them to make a really good decision, which is ultimately what we want them to do is feel comfortable investing in us or working with us. But I think sometimes I have a lot of clients who, when I talk to them about storytelling and bring in their story, they're like, well, I don't have a big, crazy, life changing story. Like nothing. It's going to really empower them to work with me. So what do you do when you don't have that big story or you feel like your story is boring? Well, you mentioned that this is an empowering process and it is, but it's also a big giant relief for most business owners because that your story is not really even about you. It's about your clients. So it's a huge load off. You're like, Oh, it's not even about me. Like I'm, I'm. I'm inviting them into a narrative where they play the hero and I play the guide, but it's not like I, as the business owner have to have this big profound founder story that like, you know, about how you move mountains and achieved Nirvana somehow. It's, it's really a load off. And the thing that you mentioned that I think was, Spot on is that  storytelling really creates a connection and the kind of cool thing about business and marketing when you do it right is that people don't actually hire the best person. So you don't actually have to be extraordinary at what you do. They hire the one they feel the most connected with. And when people come to your website and you're writing in a way that really resonates with them, they feel a connection with you and you're just going off. On a walk or having dinner with your friends, but your website's doing all that work of  telling a story, crafting a narrative, making your, your lead or your potential customers or clients, the central figure and presenting you as the strongest character in the story, which is the guide. When you show up as the guide with empathy and authority, and  mostly just true empathy, These people that come to your website, it's a completely different way of experiencing a website, because  again, it comes back to that connection and that trust that's built through that connection. It's almost not that the story doesn't matter. It's obviously it does, right? And how you craft it, but it's like the connection matters more. And sometimes I think what is the relatable piece is not you saying like, I have, I've created this. Literally, I've climbed Mount Everest and I've done these things or I'm, you know, I've built this multi million dollar business. Like sure, those are inspiring stories, but sometimes it is like the day to day person that is also really relatable too, and that we can make connections with. So I like that you kind of reframed it of, it really is that Our customer feeling that we hear them and we understand them and we get them.  Yes, 100%. That is like, you just hit the nail on the head. That is the most important thing we can do. In fact, I think I deleted my about me page or I moved it down to my footer navigation. Like nobody really cares. Nobody, nobody really cared. They just want to know, like, are you, what are you about? Do you understand my struggle? Do you understand where I, where I am? And can you get me out of this? Can you get me to where I want to go? And those are the things that people that come to your website are curious, most curious about. Yeah, that totally makes sense. And it's funny when we started. This podcast. And we were working with our podcast launch manager at the time.  She was saying like, you know, sometimes I don't even put the client, like the guest bio, like right in the beginning because people just skip those 30 seconds and skip the about portion. And you know what I mean? And when I get right to the, how can this episode or, you know, whatever helped me. So I think it's interesting that you said you like moved your about me section on your website. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Do you,  like when you're working with clients  to get them to have this mindset shift from the hero in the story to more of the guide,  what have you encountered in working with people as like a roadblock that you come up against? Like, is it an easy transition for people to switch from the hero to the guide or do you feel like it, you're met sometimes with resistance? Transcribed Honestly, I love that question. And it's, it's such a relief to my clients when they realize this, and they have this awareness. It's like this light bulb goes off, and they have an aha moment. And they're like, Oh, of course. Oh, yes. And they're they're relieved, number one, because they've been putting all this pressure on themselves to have What I would call a founder's story, a founder's story is different from a true story that you're going to have on your website, or you're going to tell in your marketing communications. And not to say that founder stories aren't important, but they're not the type of story that you need to tell. That's going to get you new clients and get your website converting for you. The story I'm talking about is a narrative that you're going to craft. That you're inviting your potential clients into where they're the hero and you're the guide and all the clients that I work with. And nobody has pushed back on that. Nobody has been resistant to that because when you're a service provider and you're truly you have the heart to help your clients, you know, you'll do whatever you need to do to really help them. And I think it becomes really clear that like, Oh, this is about the people that I'm trying to help. Of course, like that's really where my heart is anyway. So it's a very easy transition. That makes sense. I was just wondering because sometimes  When I talk with clients about launch mindset, and  it's so easy for people to fall into a scarcity mindset when they're launching a course or a membership specifically, at least like what I've seen with clients is, is people saying things like, Oh, well, so and so has a membership or so and so has a course just like this.  Why, you know, they're going to buy from them and not me. So I think like shifting the narrative. And mentioning like what you just said is it's all about connection and you're not going to be for everybody and everybody's not for you and your program and like, that's okay. That's okay. Yeah. And I think, you know, that problem is so common that the market is so saturated, right? With different programs and courses and coaches and services. And what's beautiful about this is that you don't have to drum up. Like all the ways that you're different from everybody else, because inherently you are different from everybody else, but that comes through in the nuances that you understand about your client and their struggle and what their hopes and dreams are and how you help them overcome this, this problem that they're stuck in, like. All of that, like going through the process and really putting the, the flashlight on them  and what, you know, about them and the things that they share with you about,  you know, what wakes them up in the middle of the night? What, what, what wakes your clients up in the middle of the night? What do, what are they telling you on sales calls that they're the most frustrated about or scared about? Are there. They're longing for the most. And when you write your copy in a way that gets into those nuances, it inherently shows how different you are, because even if someone's doing a similar program, they're going to tap into different nuances about their clientele.  Yeah, I actually love your mentioning all this because I feel like we talk about this a lot with market research. So it really feels like, in a lot of ways, these things go hand in hand. Crafting a really good story also is about having a deep knowledge of your customer, of your clients, paying attention to what they're telling you and making note of those things, which I think we really forget to do that sometimes. So let's say someone's listening to this episode and they're like, you have sold me, Kris. I am going to be the guide now in a story. I want to create this. Great story to tell my clients or my customers, what should be the first thing that they do in starting to hone this story? The, the best thing they can do, and I have a freebie that, that does break this down for people in a worksheet, but the fundamentals are that you want to brain dump all the things that they've shared with you, that they're struggling with in their words. So we really want to meet them where they are. A lot of My clients are like, yeah, they,  they are struggling with this, but I know the real problem is their time management, but I'm like, okay, well, did they mention time management is like something they're struggling with? No, they're not aware that it's a time management issue or. A self esteem issue or whatever people pleasing all kinds of things, right? Like our clients come to us with problems and we know often that there's a deeper issue or, or we know the source of where that's coming from, but they don't know it yet. And so, um, I would encourage your listeners just to literally use the words that your clients use when you're on the phone with them and they're sharing with you and they're in their heart. What are they really struggling with in their words? So meet them right where they are. And that's what I would start with. I would start with that. And then after you get really clear on the problem,  The rest of the story kind of falls down like dominoes and in many, many ways, because the next part of the story is really painting a brighter future for them. So what is their life look like after working with you? What are they longing for and hoping for? What would delight them? And we want to kind of think like. What's the peak of the mountain for them? What's possible for them. And as the guide, one of our most important jobs is just to show them and remind them of a brighter future that's possible. And so often you can  go back to phone calls that you've had with them, things that they've shared with you, or you can look at the problems that you brain dumped on a Google doc and what's the opposite. What are the opposite of those? struggles and those problems. And usually that will lead you to like,  really clearly painting a vision of success for them. When you're working with people and maybe they don't have a super great understanding of their audience yet, like maybe they're struggling at even that initial part, like kind of how you mentioned, maybe they're not, um, They're clients telling them one thing, but they're kind of hearing something else, or they're trying to fix the issue. I know in the past I've recommended to clients to do like go through old testimonials, right? And you can kind of look at the language there, or maybe you have clients you've worked with or even in a membership, have them submit feedback on your membership. You can use that. Do you have other ways that you recommend people go and hear from their audience, especially if maybe they're new to business, maybe they haven't gotten a lot of interaction yet. Yeah. If you're new to business, one little trick that is. It's really pretty fruitful is going to Amazon, finding a book that solves the problem that you solve.  And then looking at the reviews of that book and people will be talking about, you know, what they were struggling with and how that book helped them resolve it. You get, you can get a lot of good language that way. Yeah. I've never thought about that. I like that. Yeah. That's an amazing, that's an amazing little hack you got there. So can you give us an example, Kris, using like your own business about how you would use this sort of process and this story process, this metaphor that you've basically constructed, which I think is an amazing metaphor, by the way, being the guide, like how, how do you use that in your, in like your own business?  Well, okay, so every story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve so we always want to Begin our communications with that. They meet a guide and this is true for movies too. About a third of the way through the movie, they meet a guide or a guide comes into the,  to the story. And that guide gives them a plan. The plan that the guide provides them is very simple. It's a three step plan. And the reason why it's so simple is because. Your potential client is stuck in their problem and they feel very overwhelmed. If they could solve this problem on their own, they would have, they can't. And so for them, getting out of their problem and getting to a point of success feels very, very overwhelming. Feels like running a marathon without training for a marathon. It's really impossible. And so as the guide, the first thing you want to do is really Give them a plan and give them a very clear and simple plan. Here's how it works. Here's how I solved this problem. Many times before step one, schedule a call with me, step two, join my membership or work with me one on one and we'll get into the nitty gritty and yada, yada, like solve your problem. And then step three is always the happy end result. So they, so then they look at this plan and they go, Oh my gosh. And three simple steps I can get to where I want to go. And it's. It reminds them that it's not going to be so hard and the plan, the simpler, the plan, the better, because the plan is really the tool that calls them to action. The action is really  the whole point of everything. Like we're just trying to get our potential clients to. Have enough courage and have enough trust and have enough connection with us to take that action. That's how we know our marketing's working. Our people are clicking and booking calls with us, or they're buying our course or program. They're taking action. And the reason they're taking action is because we've broken it down into a very clear and simple plan that they that's reminded them, okay, I can do this. I can totally do this. I'm going to, I'm, I'm not jumping off a cliff. I'm, I'm jumping into a soft pillow. I'm going to click on this call to action and solve my problem. And our clients are really likely to click on our call to action if they know it's going to bring them to success. But it's an interesting thing. The way the brain works, they're even more likely to click on that call to action if they know it's going to help them avoid failure. And so we really want to remind them that we're going to help them avoid failure. Failure is possible. This is what I call stakes. What are the stakes? And stakes in a movie are just the tension between the possibility of success and the possibility of, of failure. And Stakes are really the thing that pull us through the movie or through the book or through the website without disengaging. If we went to a movie and eight minutes into the, to the movie, the bomb got disarmed,  we would probably get up and leave the movie in about 10 minutes because there's no stakes. And so we want to use that same really important part of  Of  storytelling to really make your story compelling and keep them engaged. I mean, what has the power to capture our attention in this day and age, right? Where we don't look at our phone for 90 minutes or two hours. Like it's nothing has the power to do that, but if you go to a movie. That's what happens. Like that's the power of a story. And so when we, when we have all of these different components of story in our business, then we pull people through the story and we get to kind of educate them and build trust and nurture a relationship, just even, even scrolling through the homepage.  Yeah, I also love this, you know, the movie analogy and you're talking about the stakes and it made me think how I sometimes see on social media, people might focus on like one element of a story or one element of their customer. Like they might only touch on the stakes. So then things always feel really stressful. Like when watching their stuff, right? It's always like how things could go wrong, but I never see the transformation or the end result. I never feel like they hear me. Or maybe there are some people who only focus on the end result, but I don't know their process. I don't know how they get there. And I think that's also really important about why the whole story comes together. And there's all of those elements because you have to move. People along with you have to take them along the whole journey because if you're just stuck at one point, like you said, if the bomb was diffused right in the beginning or if there wasn't ever a stake and it was just like this happy go lucky thing, you're like, well, this is kind of boring. Where are we going with this? Completely, completely. And I think of, uh, there, there are really seven parts to any story. To all stories. And that's what I do for my clients on my initial call is I kind of diagnose where is there's where the holes in their boat. I think of every component of story as a potential hole in your boat. And if you, if you don't have the stakes, or if you don't have the plan, or if you don't have, you know, the painting a picture of success, or you don't have a clear call to action, these are holes. In the boat. And if you're, if you've got three, four or five holes in your boat, you're not going anywhere. Like it's you're, you're bailing water the whole, the whole day. And so my goal is to really help people kind of shore up those holes and  it really tell a full and complete story in all their marketing, right? Their website, the, the website tells the same story as. Everywhere else that you do the market, your marketing and your story can really vary in length too. I like to say it, it works a lot like an accordion. You've got a very short version of your story. When someone says, Hey, what do you do? You've got like a sh and shorter answer to that. If you're in a podcast, it might be longer on a website, longer and webinar might be even longer, but really the key is that you. Buy, you know, you, you create, you craft your story and then you don't have to reinvent the wheel over and over and over again, you use that same story. And the more you use it, the more you repeat it, the more people remember it, the more trust you build. And people think  that somehow they have to come up with fresh and new content all the time. But really, like, this is kind of the lazy man's way of or a woman's way of doing things, but not in a bad way. It actually like it feels like you're being lazy, but you're actually being very professional because you're being cohesive, you're being consistent, and people need to hear things about eight times. before they can commit it to memory anyway. So you might think you're, you know, beating a dead horse, but you're not. Just keep telling your same story over and over again. Yeah. It's kind of like a messaging cheat sheet. You just keep coming back to the story. Completely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've given us so much amazing  Even as someone who writes copy all the time and I talk about these things, I think hearing it from you has helped me put it in new words for my clients who maybe are struggling with what I mean when I say messaging and when we talk about market research. So, yeah, as we kind of close up this episode, you mentioned briefly that you had a free resource for helping people kind of craft the story and writing compelling copy. Can you tell us a little bit about that? More about yes. Yeah. Everything about me can be found at my website, red door designs. com. That's R E D D O O R D E S I G N S. com. And my freebie is there. It's how it's called how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. And it's a worksheet. A Google doc, it's a five minute video with a Google doc that really breaks down these components of stories. So you can kind of brain dump them, get them out of your head and onto the document. And then that does become your cheat sheet for all your messaging moving forward. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing all this wonderful info with us.  Thanks so much for joining our conversation today. If you enjoyed this episode, please hit your listing app and leave a quick rating review. If you're on Instagram, share this episode and tag us at Duxbury Digital and at the relevant collective. We'd love to hear from you. We'll meet you back here next Tuesday for more practical strategies to take your business from chaos to conversions.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/clicks-and-giggles ### Title: The Power of Storytelling, with Jordan Rothwell Perry and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6334248 ### Content: ## The Power of Storytelling ## The Clicks and Giggles Podcast, with Jordan Rothwell Perry and Kris Jones The Power of Storytelling, with Jordan Rothwell Perry and Kris Jones Have you ever felt paralyzed trying to explain your business? If you can’t, your website will turn perfect clients away. The good news is that there's a powerful shift that changes everything – and it's not what most marketing "experts" tell you. In a recent conversation with Jordan Rothwell Perry, we discuss how I’m helping entrepreneurs transform their websites from digital ghost towns into 24/7 client-attracting machines, even while they sleep. **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? The "Bottle Effect" that keeps brilliant business owners stuck (and the simple way out) ? How one chiropractor went from shy practitioner to fully booked without ever feeling "salesy" ⚡️ Why your website might be pushing dream clients away (even if it looks beautiful) Running a business is demanding enough without staying awake at night wondering if your marketing is working. I know how frustrating it can be to pour your heart into your work, only to struggle explaining its value to others. That's why I'm excited to share this episode that breaks down why the most successful businesses aren't necessarily the "best" —they're the ones people feel most connected to. You’ll learn how to make that connection happen automatically. Welcome to the clicks and giggles podcast. I'm your host, Jordan Rothwell Perry, and I'm here to make your marketing click, connect and convert. My mission is to help good people with great offers make more money through paid digital marketing strategies. I truly believe that one ad can change everything for you and your business.  Tune in weekly to unlearn what the bros and insert air quotes, agency gurus have led you to believe about advertising and hear from inspiring women in my network who are making business a little more live, laugh, launch, and a little less stuffy suit and tie because nobody playing the long game is having a terrible time. Whether you're new to business. Making millions or you're just my mom tuning in for clicks and giggles you are welcome here in the room Get ready for a good time.  Hi and welcome to the clicks and giggles podcast your host here Jordan Rockwell Perry And I'm super excited for today's guest A new business colleague and friend of mine, Chris Jones is here. She is the owner of Red Door Designs. And I'm so glad to have you here today. I am so glad to be here, Jordan. This is going to be fun. Yes. I'm super, super excited for you to be here. So Chris, can you tell the listeners just a little bit about yourself and your business? Of course. Yeah. I've had this business, Red Door Designs, for 23 years now. So I've been doing This type of work a very long time. I started out in design, brand design, graphic design, web design, and eventually realized that design will only get used so far and that my clients really needed to get clear with their storytelling and the words and really to have a powerful story online that's sold for them, and so, um, I, I over the years have really shifted the way I do my business. I, I used to be very much design first and now it's all about storytelling. We start with that. We build that foundation. And then we move into the design phase of things, but it all, it all starts with story and I'm in Portland, Oregon, but I work with people all over the world. And I love helping entrepreneurs really find the words to confidently communicate what they do, whether that's out loud in person or on your website or on social media. It's really, when you have a signature story, it's such a confidence boosting thing to have. And I think a lot of the, the people that I work with forget how powerful their work is, you're in it, you know, you're in your business all day, every day. And sometimes it's helpful to have an outside person come in and remind you of the problems that you solve and the incredible results that you provide for your clients and put that into words for you. It's, it's just, it's super hard to, to write for your own business. So yeah, I like to let my clients off the hook and, and do that for them. Yeah. Right. They're already doing enough. So for you to be able to take that off their plate is such a gift. So how did it come to be? So I saw. I mean, I, I lurk on everyone, right? So I saw on LinkedIn that you were an art director in the past, which is awesome. And I love before my grandpa started his agency back in the seventies and eighties, he was an art director. So love, love a creative mind. And so you went from that to then start going out on your own. And so as you're on your own. When did that shift come and like, how did that come that you were like, hold on, I'm making these beautiful things, but they're, we need to switch to story first. How did that come to be? Well, we, you know, I've been doing this for so long that really, it was back in the day when, Originally, I worked for larger corporations like Nike and Adidas, and then I found my way to having my own business. And I really gravitated toward people that were in a similar position as me, solopreneurs, small business owners, people that really were the face of their business. And this is back in the day when all you needed was a beautiful website to really do well as a business. People are like, Oh, They have a website. They're a legit business, right? Yeah. We need to give them our money. Right. Right. So it was like, throw a, you know, a photo on there and, you know, the words didn't really matter so much. You just needed a website. And what happened was over the years, the landscape online changed and I had a client come to me. Her name was Elise and she had a background in publishing. So she was actually pretty gifted with writing and words. And she had this business idea that she wanted to get out into the world. So she hired me to design her website. And the way that I used to do it back then is I'd say, okay, the project is going to kick off. The design phase of the project is going to kick off on April 1st. So I need all your copy by the day before. And they would say, okay, and, you know, go off and either write their own copy or maybe hire somebody to try and figure it out themselves. That was something that, that they would always bring to me and then I would take it from there. And so Elise was like, no problem. I'm going to write my own copy. And she called me the day that her copy was due and she was like, I don't know what is going on. I'm completely stuck. I'm paralyzed. I'm beating my head against the wall. The harder I try, the worse the copy gets. Like it's, I can't, I'm, I literally can't write this copy. Can you please help me? And that was a really eyeopening moment because I really couldn't help her. And I just made it a mission to never let this happen again. So thanks to her. I went on a mission for a very long time, delving deep into how to really tell a powerful story and an effective story, a story that actually works to grow your business. And this type of story is different than like a founder's story or the story of how you got into business. It's, it's a story that you share about. Your business, but it's really about inviting your potential clients into a story with you where you play a character in the story, but they really are the hero of the story. And so I delved deep into that. I flew across the country. I went to workshops, I read books, I became one of the very first story brand guides. And through that process, I never treated any project the same again. And it always started with. With storytelling. And when I started applying these principles to my projects, I was getting phone calls from clients saying, Chris, I'm charging six times more for the exact same service because now the values. Being communicated and my websites doing the heavy lifting for me, or I'm booking way more sales calls. And when I get on the phone with them, they're already sold on what I do. I don't have to sell anymore. I'm not wasting my time on calls trying to sell because. The website's doing that for me. And so I was getting this incredible feedback from clients that was just mind blowing and, and really affirming. And not only that, I was applying the same principles to my own business because at that point, you know, it was. I was really relying solely on referrals, which is wonderful in a way, like it's great to be referred, but it's a really unreliable way to run your business because it can change dramatically from month to month. And that whole way of running my business was really stressful for me. And so, I set my own business up with really powerful storytelling frameworks. And the same thing was happening. I was having people like taking the train into Portland to meet with me because they wanted to hire me. And like that happened multiple times. And I've really, since I, since I shifted gears and shifted focus and, and delve deep into story with my own business. I've never had to worry about getting clients. Wow. Yeah. Very neat. Yeah. So you, you ended up taking and applying what you had learned for your clients yourself, which I feel like for entrepreneurs is such a hard thing to do because we're so in the weeds of our own stuff and serving our clients well, but kudos to you because you know. How it pays off. That is awesome. That is really, really neat. How long ago did you kind of dive into StoryBrand, like becoming a StoryBrand guy and all that? It was 2017. So it was before the book Building a StoryBrand even came out. Wow. That is awesome. And had you just been following Donald Miller? Yeah. Yeah.  He's actually a Portland guy. Cool. Yeah, he lived here. He went to college here and, and so yeah, I had been in his radar for a long time and, and really resonated with the way he, he really takes or his approach simplifies marketing in a really beautiful way. And my whole approach to marketing is very much a less is more approach. I like to do, like, what's the most, the minimal you can do, because we're all, we're all wearing lots of hats. So how can you, you know, set yourself up to allow your business to, and your marketing to do the work for you so you can do, focus on the work that you really love? Absolutely. No, that is awesome. Okay. So it's been seven ish years now.  That's awesome. Yeah. So, so if someone's listening and we, you know, before we were chatting about some people who listen are like working on their first hundred K or some have done six figures a couple of years in a row and now they're heading into the scaling aspect. If someone is starting the initial work on like, what is my story? A lot of people I've worked with. Don't even have the website in the beginning because they've sold coaching packages to people and they just haven't needed it But like you said you want your marketing to work for you and in your story and copy to work for you So what is kind of the first step into obviously? I want people down the road to hire you and and to totally outsource it to you But if they're in the beginning stages What, what is a tip or something they could do now to even start kind of developing their story and, and pondering like, what is the story I tell that does put my client or customer as the hero? Yeah, absolutely. I actually have a freebie that does, that will literally walk you through how to brain dump the fundamentals of the game. Your story and it's a five minute video and it's called how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. So it's a five minute training where I show you and I walk you through everything, and then it comes with a Google doc where that you can, with prompts that will show you exactly how to do it. It's a three step process. It will not take you long, but it'll change the way. You talk about your business forever, and that can be found on my website at RedDoorDesigns. com. Perfect. And you can just, um, click on free guide there in the upper navigation. Perfect. And we'll put that in the show notes too. That is perfect for them, for the person listening who's like, I know I need to do something. But what, what does it look like? Yeah. And  everybody does need one page online. That's going to sell for them. You can call it a website. You can call it a one page website. Like everybody needs one page that's going to sell for them. If they, if they want to stop, you know, the grind, right.  You send everybody to that page and you know that it's set up to sell for you. And it just makes life so much easier. And on that page, you can pull that up when you get on a sales call with somebody and you've got those words right there in front of you to share. That's so smart too, as a guide while you're on calls to be able to, to pull. No, that's awesome. I'm, I'm excited for people to get your guide. as well. So in, in your business, what have been some of your favorite projects that you've, you've worked on? Oh gosh, this morning I went and got a chiropractic adjustment and I know this guy because he was a client of mine and he is an extraordinary chiropractor, like really gentle, incredible approach. And it's really like, I really deeply love all the projects that I work on, to be honest, because the. The clients that I work with always are solving a very important problem. But Dr. Norman in particular, he is kind of a shyer guy, doesn't really feel comfortable marketing and his website did not reflect his level of expertise. He is such a master at what he does. And he helps people like get out of chronic pain and what was really, what's really lovely for me is to work with, you know, people who are transforming other people's lives. So listening to his, his testimonials and what he is doing for people just was made me feel so good about the work that I'm doing for him. The beauty is that. We wrote him a really powerful, compelling story. We put that on his website. About half of my clients have me design and build their website. Once we've, once we've crafted the signature story, which is what he had me do. So not only did I get to craft the story for him. Then I got to design his page on online and that really does the work of selling for him. So he can just, he can get back to the work that he really enjoys. The good, the good meaningful work. Yeah. Yeah. And just know that like, just he can send people there, they can schedule with him, they get a sense of what he does and they get excited to work with him. So it's, it's really made a big difference in his business. No, I love that. I. Have the summer this past summer, just kind of taking it easier per se, which I have not really done in business in a while. We just moved from Florida, sorry, from Georgia to Florida. So getting settled and my husband's a Georgia boy, so this is all new to him. So I wanted to take it in and I was telling him, I was like, okay, you know, with the fall, I've just been feeling uninspired. And then I pondered more and more. And I was like, It actually doesn't matter that I was feeling uninspired because I went and looked at exactly what you're talking about, the different clients of mine on routine or their missions. And I was like, that fires you up. Like, I may not feel inspired today, which is fine. And, but knowing that, like, just what clients are doing and who they can help, that's what matters. So, I agree with you. I love, I love that perspective, too. When you know the people you work with are doing that deep work, that does matter.  Yeah, and often they're, they're kind of invisible in their industry because they're just, they're so, such experts at what they do or they're so passionate about the work that they, they just have their head down and they're doing the work and relying on referrals. And really what they need is like more  sustainable, consistent income and growth over time. And so it's, it's an honor to get to. help people craft this story and to help them grow. It's such a good point too about people who like have their head down, they're doing the work. That chiropractor obviously sounds very humble in what he does, you know, he's just day in and day out doing it. And Just like you said, if people aren't referring just because they're busy in their life too and they're going, you know, they may not have a conversation that day where they need to refer him, how lovely to have a place to go on a website where people can just learn more. I agree 100%.  You know, there will be the debate in business like, do you need a website yet or no? And I agree with you. It's like, you just need a place for them to land. It's one page. Yes. It's not. It does not have to be crazy. And then, you know, I'm always, I'm like, especially with running ads to a page where they need to land, I'm like, have them book a call or have them fill out a form. Like, we just need them to do something, especially like, if the only way you can get a client or customers when you're awake and working and talking to them or at a networking event. That's a lot of pressure you need to be able. To go to bed knowing if someone, I, I actually had a chiropractor that we were, I coached them on their ads. They run, the wife runs a practice and she's been learning ads at awesome. And she was telling me that a lot of the forms are filled out in the middle of the night because they're in this chronic pain, they're up, they're like, I need help, and they fill out the form at two in the morning. Well, you're not. In your office then, right? And so a place for when someone, you know, in the chiropractic or health realm is hurting and they can land what a gift and,  and, and also like, what a shame if people are pouring money into ads and pointing it, pointing it to a page that. Falls flat or doesn't make it clear what you want to do. Right. I know your client, your clients are not in that position, but I have clients come to me and they're spending over a thousand dollars on ads every month and they're showing me where the ads are going. And I'm like, press pause, pause, don't, don't pour it, pour your money down. Let's wait a second. Let's make it look nice and say 100%. That's what I always do. I talk a lot about getting your house in order. And so that is, you know, if someone is like, we need leads, we're ready to go. This client actually, it's funny you say that the landing page was not what it needed to be. It was not converting. And so I said, you know what, we need to just do an on Facebook and Instagram lead form.  You're actually on the app scrolling, you fill it out and they reach out to you because the website wasn't where it needed to be, right? Right. And so 100 percent I'm always like, where are we sending them? What's happening? And that  That was honestly how a lot of my offers had changed because I was doing only ads, only launches, but people would come to me and I'd be like, Oh my gosh, this is terrible. Or like, this is broken on your site auditing so much that now we actually start from the beginning. And I'm like, okay, I love that you want to launch in 90 days, the first 30 days. Here's what you need to do. Am I doing it or are you, you know, because someone, someone has to. And so 100  percent the metaphor I like to use is. You, you send, you send out a bunch of invitations to your housewarming party, but your house is a total disaster and still under construction. And so people are coming and you're not, you're not ready. Like the doors, the doors practically locked or, or falling off the windows. Yes. And it's so true. Like when, when you are driving traffic, let's make sure that it is right. And it does 100%. I think that the ad success stories of like 2019 and 2020, which like, what a great time to be alive and running ads back then it was fun. Yeah. And we also were home. So there's nothing to do but build your business and run ads. Right. And so many people have gotten in the game since then that, yeah, the competition is higher. And those with the better website, copy, story, once you send them to the site, that's what makes them convert. And that's something I analyze with people, with clients, is looking at the page and being like, Well, people are only staying on this page for 10 seconds. Or, oh my gosh, people are staying on this page for two and a half minutes. They're reading, they're. Enjoy, it may not be the time for them to buy it, but they are consuming this. So I agree. I love, I love thinking about the house. Like when you said that I could just imagine someone walking in with something to bring as a gift, but like the counters aren't on yet. So they can't put it down. Like, right. There is a problem here, right? They're excited. They're excited to be there, but like it's empty or it's like covered in cobwebs. Yeah. The disconnect. Yeah. No, I, I think that.  Yes, 100%. And I am glad to have gotten to that point where like, I can say, Hey, you're not ready because there's also people out there who run ads who just want you to sign up and just want to run ads. And when the traffic hits there, it is what it is. They did their part. And it's like, well, hold on. What if we had paused three months, six months, you took it over, did your thing or, or whatnot. It really, it really does, does matter. That, that's a good way to put it. I like that to use for the future. Yeah, it goes right along with your, get your house in order. I always tell people, I'm like. Go, you know, every couple of weeks, click and look at your Instagram, check your link in bio, are there broken links? Check through your site just because things can change and can break, but just make sure what is, what is that first impression they're seeing. And now I'm excited to go on some of your clients sites, like I've already been on your website, but to see, to see the storytelling, it sets it apart from sitting in front of a Google doc going, what am I going to write about, right, when you have this framework. That you're, you're bringing them through. I think that's great. Well, and a big part of what I do is really, we start with the signature story, but that's kind of part one. And then part two is really how do we. infused design components into your story that really bring to life that story and compliment the story. I mean, so often people either invest in the visuals or they invest in the story, but they don't invest in both. And when you're doing both those things together, when. The design really truly brings to life the story, but that's kind of when you start to bubble up to the top of the internet, because when someone comes to your website, it feels good. They don't even know why they just know this feels good. And then the whole idea is people don't really buy from the best. They buy from the one they feel the most connected to. And when you're, when you're telling story, that's. That's the powerful way to cultivate true connection and really build trust. And those are the two necessary ingredients of converting a client. Love that. That, that is, this is really neat. And I hope, you know, people listening will head to the show notes, grab your free guide. I even am like, Oh, I want to dig in and dive in just because I read Donald Mueller's book a couple of years ago. But the refresher and just, just that thought process too of. The story and it's not, I think sometimes, especially if people aren't writers, they're like, Oh, I have to write copy. Oh, I have to get this turned over, turned in like what you saw. And really it's like, no, this is, this is meaningful, meaningful stuff. So well, and to kind of give your listeners a break, I mean, the reality is it isn't fun to write about your own business and it can feel like a big headache. And it's because of the bottle effect, which just means you're so close to your own business. It's like you're inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. And so it doesn't matter how hard you try. It just, it feels very, very hard. And, and so, you know, I want to let everybody off the hook around that, but also, also just that, yeah, you're just, you're just so close to it. But the gift is your story. Your most powerful story isn't even about you. It's about your clients, isn't it? About. The role that you play in their lives and it's a kind of a shift of like, Oh my gosh, I gotta write a story about, you know, all about me. And it's actually not necessarily all about me. Yeah, yeah, that well, and it's so funny you say that it's not all about you, which is such a good reminder. And when I was in that moment of not feeling inspired, I was like, well, it's actually literally not about you. So if your clients are still seeing results and the work's being done and things are coming along, this doesn't matter right now, you feel, you know? And so I love that reminder too, of, you know, when someone's on your site, they do want to see, you know, what's in it for them. And is this, is what you did for this person? Is this possible for me? And we know it is. But it's that communication of it part that, that is awesome that you partner with people to do that.  If someone wants to work with you, chat more about potentially hiring you, where is the best place to find you? And we'll link in show notes as well. Well, surprisingly, the best place to find me is on my website. It's reddoordesigns. com, r e d o o r d e s i g n s dot com. Everything we talked about today is there, you can get the freebie there, you can book a free money making messaging call with me there, and you can also learn about my signature offer. I love that, I love the money making messaging. So here, at the Clicks and Giggles podcast, we talk about marketing, we talk about clicks. And we also like to giggle and have fun. So when you are not working, Chris, what do you enjoy doing for fun ways to, to unwind and just enjoy life? Yeah, I have a, a six year old little boy, so a lot of my time is spent. With him after school, we like to do things like ride bikes. He, it was so cute. We were on a boat ride the other day with a few friends and somebody asked him, his name is Jude. And yes, it's after the song, Hey Jude by the Beatles. And somebody asked him, what was your favorite thing that you did this summer? And we've done, we've done a lot of cool stuff, but he said, Snuggling with mommy in bed. I was like, oh my gosh, I love this kid. Yes, that's making me tear up. That is sweet. And those are the, that's what matters. And what a blessing that your job allows you to be able to, to do that and make time for what matters most. It's the best, isn't it? The freedom, the freedom that we have is just absolutely worth it. Well, I am so glad you were on the  podcast tonight. Thank you for being here. It was a joy. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, always. And everyone listening, if you are interested in learning more about Chris, working with Chris, head to the show notes and get the link to our free guide in your site.  And that's a wrap. Thank you for listening. If you were inspired by this episode, be sure to check out the show notes for the linked resources and my free guide, Three Ways to Know You're Ready for Ads. If weekly episodes aren't enough for you and you want more of your favorite click magnet, you can connect with me over on Instagram at launchwithjordan.  I host regular challenges and drop valuable tips that will help make your marketing click, connect, and convert. And if you think you would inspire a friend, send it, share it just for clicks and giggles.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/branded-the-podcast ### Title: The Signature Story-Selling System, with Sarah Glenn and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6334262 ### Content: ## The Signature Story-Selling System ## The Brand(ed)! Podcast, with Kris Jones and Sarah Glenn The Signature Story-Selling System, with Sarah Glenn and Kris Jones Have you ever felt frustrated trying to craft your "founder story," wondering if it's dramatic or impressive enough to attract clients? The truth about business storytelling might surprise you – and it's much simpler than you think. In a recent conversation with Sarah Glenn, we explored a revolutionary approach to storytelling that's helping business owners multiply their revenue without the pressure of having a "perfect" story. **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? The single biggest storytelling mistake that's secretly pushing clients away (even seasoned marketers get this wrong) ? The one thing you think you need but you actually DON’T to connect with your ideal clients ⚡️ A simple 3-step framework that makes writing your copy convert effectively and feel effortless Running a business is challenging enough without the added pressure of crafting the "perfect" story. I get it – you're maxed out trying to serve clients, manage operations, and grow your business. That's why I'm excited to share this conversation that completely flips the script on business storytelling, giving you an easy approach that saves time and attracts more of your ideal clients. Hey, everyone. Welcome onto branded. This is the podcast that takes you behind the scenes and beyond the brand. I am super pumped to bring you Chris Jones today for all of my. I'm here with entrepreneurs and business owners who are looking to tell a fantastic story when it comes to what their brand is, who they are, what they have to offer. Chris has such a unique perspective on this, and this is going to be a fantastic episode. So, a little bit about Chris. She is the founder of the Signature Story Selling System, and this helps consultants, coaches, and service providers. Replace all their marketing with a single story so they can attract more clients, amplify revenue, and enjoy more time freedom. Yes, please. Um, she is the founder of Red Door Stories back in 2003 and she's worked with high profile companies such as Nike and Adidas, but her favorite people to work with are self employed service providers because they struggle the most with copywriting. And, um, And can experience the greatest benefits once they get their story, right. And I know we are all feeling that right, right now. So Chris, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to have this conversation. Oh, I'm thrilled to be here.  So good. So tell me a little bit about. What sparked the creation of your signature storytelling system and how it's changed the way businesses approach this type of marketing?  Yes. Well, it came about, I've been in the industry quite a long time and I started out with visual branding and what I would call visual storytelling essentially.  And this was back in the day when all you needed was a pretty website to really thrive online as a business. And what happened over the years is the landscape online changed and things got more competitive and crowded. And what had been working before for my clients wasn't working as well. Like these beautiful websites that I was designing weren't, you know, All that effective anymore.  And the reason was because I was really requiring my clients to  write their own copy and  they were really struggling with that process. And I was like, well, I got the design down. You just come up with the copy.  And what would happen is like the, on the project. Start date. I would get a call, um, on never forget one client named Elise. She called me on her project kickoff date, which is when her copy was due. So I could start the design process. And  she was like, I don't know what is going on. Like I've. I have a background in publishing. I'm a really good writer. I cannot write this damn copy. Like it's so hard. I feel paralyzed and the harder I try, the worse it gets. And it's so frustrating. And so we brainstormed some ideas and, you know, we tried a lot of different things, like I gave her some templates and, you know, I felt like I wasn't really qualified to help her solve this problem, but I, I brainstormed some ideas, including. Hiring a couple of different copywriters, which she did. And ultimately like hiring out her copy, just, it didn't feel like her voice. It just felt off. And so that didn't work  and she kept trying to do it on her own. It, anyway, it was just. A struggle, and it was not the first time this had happened with a client. So I just said, enough is enough. I am going to make it my mission to never let this happen again. So I delve deep into storytelling and what it takes to take, to tell a powerful story online. I traveled across the country, attending workshops. I even became one of the very first story brand guides. And this is before that book, building a story brand was even. Um, so it was like really early on in those days. And I just decided like, I'm, I'm gonna solve this problem once and for all. And so  once I really got through that process of mastering story, I of course, started to apply this to every project I worked on, worked on. I have never. Not used story in a project since, and my clients were calling me with like ridiculous claims. Like I couldn't believe how, how,  how quickly things were changing for them and how effective it was. And I have one client who called me and said, Chris, I'm charging six times more for the exact same service because I show up with more confidence.  The value of what I do is coming through on the page. And so people aren't even blinking at my new rates. Um, another client called me and she said, you know, my sales calls,  my sales call close rate has gone from 25 percent to 95%, which means.  For every 10 calls she got on, she got nine, 9. 5 new clients, which is just  also ridiculous and so wonderful. And so that was like, it just, it happened pretty quickly or just the proof of like, Oh, the power of story. This is really the thing that can. Truly move the needle for my clients and help me to confidently say, you know, this is what you can expect. Um,  not only that, of course I was applying my new knowledge and wisdom to my own business. And so prior to that, I had really been relying on referrals, which referrals are great, but it's not a consistent way to build a business. It's pretty. Inconsistent. You never quite, it was very stressful. I never quite knew what to expect from month to month.  So I shifted like my whole business shifted and I had people, I had two people like travel to Portland to meet with me. Because they wanted to hire me and work with me, um, in a month. And my call, I was getting lead calls, booked out. My project calendar was getting booked out. Like I had the biggest financial year of my life.  And that was the same year that I had my baby. So it was like, it was two of these things were happening. I was working a lot less. Um, I was able to charge more because I could really. Deliver the value for my clients. Um, and, and, and I made the most that I'd ever made. And so it,  I can, I continue to do this from all my clients as well, but I have personally  gotten to like, Experience the results of it as well.  Well, yeah. I mean, I think that's really important as a business owner that you're  testing these processes and these systems, and you're seeing the success for yourself. And it's amazing to see how it translates to your clients, because obviously all of our businesses operate a little bit differently. Um, but it really, what a huge weight to take off of their shoulders, because I am with you on the copywriting. It is one of the. Biggest struggles that people, I mean, even if, like you say, your, your client, she was in publishing and she's like. a writer and she's struggling with this and I think sometimes we're just too close to it. We're just too close to what we want the result to be, what we want it to say, how we want it to feel and it's really tricky because we just get so In our own way about it. It's true. Yeah, it's true. I, I call that the bottle effect, which is essentially as business owners, we are so close to our own business that we are truly inside of the bottle, trying to read the label of it that can only be read from the outside of the bottle. And so the harder we try, it doesn't actually help because we can't get out of that bottle. We're just super close to our own business. So we really do need. Somebody to come in and the way that I solve the problem for my clients, which is,  um, you know, the challenge that they were having around higher hiring copywriters and it not feeling quite like their own voice is really taking this collaborative approach. So I come in. And I do the heavy lifting of writing for my clients, but we take the time to really collaborate together. So I pull the story out of them, which ensures that I'm hearing and understanding the way they talk and their language, and so it really feels like them, and then we work together to refine and tweak the story that I've written to really ensure that by the end of the process, it feels perfectly and beautifully aligned with.  Who they are and what their business is all about. The, the other thing that I like to share with my clients is, I  mean, hopefully the bottle effect will let your listeners off the hook. Like it's not you, every business owner is in the bottle. And I really liken it to like. A typical American garage is full of boxes and stuff, right? It's like everything gets piled in there and often there's not even room for the car,  depends on your, your tendency toward, toward clutter. But, um, it's really hard when you walk out into the garage to really identify what's, what is the treasure? What, what's the gold here and what is the clutter in the trash? And what do you need to donate and what do you need to really highlight and feature? And that's what I feel like I love doing for my clients is really like  getting rid of all the clutter and really honing in on that golden thread. That is the essence of your story. Yes. That's a great metaphor because I think about that sometimes when people are sharing things with me, you know, what their brand is and what their vision is. And so much of it is like fluff. It's just unnecessary. Extra adjectives and it's just like, no, let's get to the heart of what it is you actually do and what you really want to be known for and what your business really truly provides. And honestly, I do think some of that comes with  physically experiencing your business, right? When you're brand spanking new and you don't have any clients, that story that you're telling, It evolves over time as you have 5, 10, 15, 20, a thousand clients, your story becomes a little different because you sort of tweak things along the way. But yeah, I do think having that really good foundational piece of. What's the, what'd you say? The golden thread. I love that. Yeah. And, and the other thing to like, really keep in mind when you're creating your story and how your story might appear on your website is that people go through websites. Really quickly. Like they barely read them. They pretty much scan them. So how do we tell your story in a way that it can actually get digested and understood when someone's on their phone and scrolling really quickly through the page? And so it's, it's also like,  Even more important to be able to communicate really clearly and concisely and like, think about  every part of your story kind of leading as if it were a billboard on a freeway,  you know, you've got a certain amount of time to really  get your message across. So make those headlines, like do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. Yeah, that is really true. And I've started to shift the way. I do, um, website design, email writing, all of those things. Like I've really started to notice that a lot of my emails that I'm writing for my clients are starting to really look like. A sales page like it's a story It's it starts you here with like a question or a headline And it takes you through the journey of what you're about to experience if you happened to click the link that i'm sharing with you Right, right I've i've started to recognize that more and more and it's becoming more muscle memory for me to create things in that way um, and I think that that's definitely something that entrepreneurs struggle with and  It's almost like you don't really see it till you see it and then you're like, okay, this is what I've been trying to achieve the whole time. Phenomenal. I'm glad I've started to, you know,  get into that. Um, and so, yeah, I think it's phenomenal. So can you walk us through the process of transforming a brand's essence into a story that is like just selling 24 7? Yeah, absolutely. So the process is there's kind of two parts to what I want to share with you. The first thing I want to say is that when you craft a signature story,  it. Really, you can really just use one story for your entire business. And that feels like a big claim, but it's absolutely true because your signature story, Works like an accordion. It can, it can expand like an accordion and it can condense like an accordion. And maybe in the middle would be like a video script. Maybe the longer version of it might be your website or a blog post. And the shortest version of it would be like your, what I call a one liner or an elevator pitch, um, or your social media profiles. So  it's the same story. It's just, you've got varying lengths.  So it's really helpful to think of the story in that way. And the beauty of it is that you don't have to reinvent the wheel once you have it. And you can, you know, it, it, one might look at this like the lazy, lazy woman's marketing approach, but it's truly. More effective because people need to hear things about seven or eight times before they can actually commit them to memory. And your job as an entrepreneur is to be become really memorable and to be known for solving a particular problem. And so  repetition is.  Uh, such a gift because you don't have to work as hard and actually your message becomes more effective. You become more trustworthy and more memorable.  So, um, that's the way a signature story works. My process of how I work with my clients, it all begins with what I call mining for gold, which is really as extracting your story out from inside of you. It's in your head, it's in your heart. My job is really to pull it out. And then I take all of those nuggets and I filter out the noise and I write your signature story for you. So that would include your website, copy your one liner, your video script, um, kind of everything that you need on your website to really get people excited about the project. Working with you and get really get sold. Um, the other, the other kind of strategic by product of this is you use your story on your sales calls, so you no longer have to sell. You just get on, you've got all the words there. I mean, I even pull up my own website when I'm on a sales call and I just. The words are already there. I just kind of walk them through how I can help them. So step two, after I've mined for gold, I write all that copy for you. And then one of the key parts of the process is the collaboration. This is how we ensure it's really honed into the nuances of your industry and really aligned with your own voice. So we get on a 90 minute collaboration call and refine and tweak that story until it's done. Absolutely perfect. And then what we do next is what I call deploy your story, meaning infuse your story into every area of your business. It's in your email footer, uh, email signature. It's in your social media profiles. It's, um, on your videos. It's all It's literally everywhere. And that's how you really magnify your message. And then we tackle design. So once the, the signature story has been integrated into the website, then I come in and really look at it with designer eyes and make sure that the visual story we're telling is really, In alignment with the written story that we've so carefully crafted, the design is secondary, but it's so important in bringing those words to life and really helping  you feel your message and everything feel really aligned and integrated. It's just such a beautiful way to, um, to show up online. And I like to say like a, a website that has a design that's really aligned with the story is. Like coming to a, like people feel like they're getting a hug when they come to your page. That's a really lovely feeling. And when you're, you're using story and you're really making your customer, the hero, your clients, the hero of your story, and you are the guide, you are the Yoda, they are the Luke Skywalker. Um,  it's, it's just such a unique way of, Of experiencing the website and it feels so good. People don't know why it feels so good, but it feels so good. It feels like, ah,  I've, they feel connected with you and they want to work with you. It's, it's kind of magical. Yeah, it honestly is. And I think that's some of the best marketing is the marketing that you can't really explain. Why you love it so much. Why you bought that thing. You were like, it just felt right. And yeah, I definitely agree. And I love, you have so many fantastic metaphors. It's just so great. The accordion. I mean, that just gave me the visual.  Of exactly what I wanted to, like, while I was listening to you, you just have such a way with your words. It's really, really special. And I love the accordion because I do think people get  very concerned about repurposing and reusing and saying the same thing too many times.  And it is honestly something that I am constantly infusing into my own business and into my content and. Um, with my clients, it's like you, whatever feels like overkill to you is probably just the right amount, or maybe still not enough,  just, just when you're getting totally sick of it, that's when it's going to start really working.  But a lot of, a lot of people I talk with, um, they feel like they don't have a story. And so they're, they're worried about that. I don't really have a story or my story is boring or not interesting. And I always say like,  this is not your life story. It's not even your founder's story. It's your brand story. It's very, very different type of story. And the story that I like to tell is really about. Crafting a narrative that invites your ideal clients into a story with you, a story where they are the hero of the story and you're the guide. So again, like let yourself off the hook again. Um, this is, you know, your story is really about your ideal clients. And yes, you have a role in the story, a very important role, but you're not the hero of the story.  Yeah. And that's a hard thing to get away from, honestly, especially if you are. Brand new in business and you don't have that client, um, testimonial base or experience. It is really hard to have that foresight of what my ideal client is really expecting to feel and see and get from this. And it gets easier along the way as you have more of a, a client roster to pull from. But yeah, it really isn't about us. And, um, honestly it provides so this like insane sense of freedom when you really come to terms with the fact, like, this isn't even, this is not about me. Right. So I take things a lot less personally, you know, if someone doesn't buy my service, you know, weren't a great fit. It, that's fine. When someone does buy my service, it doesn't give me that endorphin boost of like, I did something amazing. It's more like. I know that we're about to create something incredible together. And it doesn't become about me anymore. It's really about like their problem and the problem that you get to solve for them. And the fact that they trust you to solve that for them. So it's kind of a different way to look at it, but it is really  less emotional than, um, than it can be early on when you're feeling like personally. Like rejected. If somebody doesn't choose to work with you,  I know what a terrible feeling, but it really, it happens to all of us. And it's something we sort of learned to outgrow, I suppose. Um, as we become more self aware and  just aware of what's happening around us.  Can you articulate how like a brand's value through the storytelling impacts that sales and overall growth?  Um,  tell me what you mean by.  So like you've already kind of touched on this a little bit, but when you have the value of the brand embedded into that story, I mean, does it really just become this thing like people visit and sales and growth is happening because the value is. obvious at that point. Absolutely. I mean, the value becomes so clear, like it is so clear what the value is that  you get people that want to work with you or want to buy what you're selling. And so the value of  Work that you do is infused into everything that we do. And it really comes, comes down to like, how bad do people want to solve this problem and how clear are you able to communicate that? How well are you able to really authentically connect with them and help them feel seen and heard and like, Really understood. And then how do you paint a brighter picture of their future? So you're really showing them what's possible and how badly do they want the things that you're showing them that are possible in their life? I mean, part of our job as the guide is to paint this beautiful picture of success and to really show them what is possible for them if they decide to solve this problem and want to take action.  And work with you. So we want to really inspire them to take action and, and motivate them to do that because, um, they really want to, and they're excited about it. Not because they're like feeling like they should. Right. Um, and heroes are very motivated to avoid failure. So we also want to kind of. Build a nice, healthy tension without being extreme of reminding them that we're going to help them avoid failure too. So if they do nothing, odds are their problem is not going to get solved because  they would have solved it themselves if they could have by now. So that's why they need you. Very true. Yeah, very true. I know. I was just talking with one of my clients recently, and she was talking about how once we started working together, she had seen her revenues starting to increase, and it was really all because she could just start focusing on the parts of her business that she really loved and essentially stop ignoring. All of the, all the tasks on her list that she was like, Oh, those will get done later. I'll do that later. They weren't things she wanted to do. They weren't things she loved to do, but they're things for her business that needed to get done. So it's like, unless you're willing to delegate that out, like you say, it's, if you were going to solve the problem, you would have done it already. And so it might be time. To enlist some sort of help to just help you  Stop trying to see through the bottle to the label on the outside, right? Like yeah, or someone to stand on the outside and say hey, guess what the bottle says this  Yeah, exactly and I mean the beauty of it the beauty of like automating your marketing in a way like with The use of a signature story is that you really get, like, the story does that heavy lifting for you. It's doing all the work that a lot of people feel like they have to do manually. And then you get freed up to really focus on just doing the. The work that you love. Yes, you do need to market, whether it's on a podcast or email marketing or some people do Facebook ads, like whatever. Pick. Pick your one thing that you really love to do. Do you like to do networking events? Okay, do that. Double down on that, but point everyone and everything  to your website knowing that it is acting as your top sales employee 24 7, always working for you so you don't have to do that. Yeah, yeah, it's so true. And that's kind of how I've shifted my business too. I mean, I do the podcast and that is quite literally like my one big piece of value I do every week and everything else sort of trickles down from that podcast. And it's my way of talking about my business, what's working, what's not talking about my clients businesses. It's all real time kind of stuff. And I have found it's kind of my best way of telling my story. And. If you look back at the history of my podcast, it's not that every single week there's a brand new insight that you've never ever heard before,  right? And it's like you say, you repeat, you repurpose, you talk about things from a slightly different perspective, and you really only have to come up with the story, that really fantastic story.  Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, uh, you're touching on such an important point, which is people want to work with people they feel connected with. And when, when clients or potential clients get to spend time with you and they get a sense of your voice, your energy, your tone, your helpful heart, they feel like they know you. Like a lot of people I get on calls with. Feel like they've already spent time with me. They've gone to my YouTube channel or they've listened to trainings that I've, that I've put out there. And so by the time I get on a call with them, they already feel like we're buddies, which is amazing. I mean, that's what you really want your marketing to do. And that's the gift of doing a podcast is that people are spending time with you. And the more time they spend with you, the more likely they are to be able to hire you. And. What an incredibly  powerful and effective way to connect when you're actually in someone's earbuds and you're in their ear, you're in their head, right? And so it's, it's, um, it's such a impactful way to market your business.  Agree. Would you be able to share an example of how a business It's just revolutionized its identity and sales by employing this system that you have.  Oh gosh. I mean. You have a lot probably.  Yeah. I have a lot of stories. Every time I work on a project, I debrief after the project with. My client and I asked them questions about their experience and what kind of results that they,  that they experienced. So I've got like a page on my website. That's just videos of people giving feedback on what they've experienced. I mean, the big ones are like my client, Mike was really on the verge of burnout and he was. Gonna shut down his doors. Um,  and so investing and working with me was kind of a big deal for him. And he kind of bet on himself and.  You know, invested in the money and  started to gain more confidence and more clarity. And he's like, he came to me and he is like, I have a, I have like a swagger about me that I never had before. Like I confidently tell people what I do and they're excited about it. And. So he ended up turning his business completely around.  Um, there's other clients that spent. Like hours, there's one client in particular, Emily, she would spend hours on sales calls like every week. And she was a mother of twins. She was feeling really stretched too thin. And so we worked together and we got her website really tuned up and queuing people up.  So they like had all their, their questions answered and They were really reassured about that, what they were going to get and how they could work with her, that she has started selling without anyone having to get on a call with her, which was like such a huge gift.  Yeah. I mean, that's the ideal scenario is like you get that. Purchase email in your inbox without having a sales call. I was like, wow, new person. Let me go engage. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, yeah, I mean, I think the main thing that I hear over and over again is just a lot more free time. Um, Or time freedom, I should say, like freedom to choose what you do with your time.  Um, there's a lot of peace of mind knowing that you have the right words. Um, I think as entrepreneurs we're  questioning ourselves all the time. Is it right? Isn't that right? I don't know. I think it might be right. I don't know. I'm just going to hit publish and put it out there and maybe it's working. Maybe it's not. Not like there's real peace of mind of just knowing, Oh, this is working. And I know why it's working and I can set it and forget it. Um, so it's the confidence that comes like with having the right words, whether it's just peace of mind about the website working for you or confidence when you get on that sales call that you know what to say. And then of course, like the big one is just, you get to make a lot more money. Because the value is there. And so sometimes it takes a little while for clients to like catch up to the fact that they can now charge more, but eventually they get there or they get too busy and then their, their rates go up. Um,  but that's like, that's the best part is just when people start. Booking out their calendars and getting new clients and selling their courses. And I had one client named Neil Williams. She made.  93,  000 in how I'm trying to remember if it was,  she made, I think it was 93, 000 in  like 90 days or something like that. It's on my website. Now I can't remember the exact number, but she,  Yeah, she just tuned up her website. Like we just worked together to get the messaging dialed in and we cleared out all the clutter and it started to really work for her. So big changes happen. It's really rewarding for me.  I love that. And you're so right. When you say the confidence that comes with knowing the right words to say, like with clarity comes confidence. Like it, it's just one of those facts of life, those universal laws, like you, if you're really feeling a lack of confidence in what it is you do, whenever someone comes up to you and says, Oh, so great to meet you. What do you do? And your stomach sinks and your brain goes blank. Like if you're having that sensation, when someone asks you what you do, then you need to get on Chris's website and you need to like,  just start to really infuse. This whole episode into your next meditation practice or something like start thinking about these things because with clarity comes that confidence and the moment you have that string of words that goes together. And you have  not all the fluff, it's like all the things that really matter and really say who you are and what you do.  Yeah. It just rolls off the tongue like immediately the shift will happen immediately. It really does. Oh, literally overnight. Like people dread that question. What do you do? You know, it's  so, it's so annoying. When you hear that and you're like, and you're like cringing and two things happen, number one, you go on and on about what you do and like their eyes glaze over and they're, you're like, oh gosh, I lost them, you know, or you have a two word answer, like I'm a financial advisor. Or whatever, and then, and then they're like, and, um, anyway, how's the weather? You know, it's like it, so it either falls flat or glazes over either way you're uncomfortable and it doesn't feel good. And I really feel like that question, what do you do should Lead to a really engaging, fruitful conversation. Um, even if they're not your ideal client, like it, it can still lead to like a really enjoyable, meaningful exchange. And it's, yeah, it's such a relief when you, like I tell my clients,  once you have those words, print them out, put them next to your computer and memorize it. People that know how to answer the question, what you, what do you do? They've memorized it. They've done the work. They've gotten clear. They've,  they've memorized it intentionally. And then forevermore, they know the answer to that question. Um, and This is such a passion of mine. Like it doesn't have to be hard. You don't, you don't have to even meditate on it. Like I have a five minute video. You can watch it's free. It's on my website. It's called how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. And it will literally in five minutes, walk you through how to get clear on the three most important components of your story. So you can answer that question. What do you do with total confidence? Transcribed And enjoyment. Yeah.  Oh, that's good. I will add that to the show notes. You guys, I'll go find the video. I'll add it to the show notes. So that way you can easily link it because yeah, I mean, that really is  everything that I am doing in my business. And I can see that Chris is doing in hers. It's really about making life as seamless as possible, right? There's going to be potholes, there's going to be struggles and things that you have to work through along the way. But if you know where to find the tool. To help you get through it. And it really isn't an issue. It's really just another learning opportunity and you just keep moving on and you add a little notch to your belt and be like, well, now I know how to do this. Awesome. Well, yeah, you  do it, you do it one time and you reap the benefits forever because your story doesn't really change. I mean, Yes, your business evolves and over the course of years, you might fine tune it or tweak it, but fundamentally your story is going to really be consistent. Yeah. Yeah. And I can say from experience, this is probably one of The most anxiety ridden aspects of figuring out my business. When I first, first started with entrepreneurship, I mean, I was brand new to it, um, you know, only had done corporate America, my whole adult life. And so being asked that question to do those sort of. You know, journal prompts, those exercises. What is it that you do? Do what's your elevator pitch? All these things. I mean, I would spend months trying to figure this out. And so meeting somebody like you, I mean, come on, this is really going to like  hyper speed the process. Um, and it's not necessarily about, you have to go fast, but it's like, why not? work a little smarter. Do it with a little more intention and just weed out the clutter. Well, when you have the right guidance and a clear process, it shouldn't take very long. It shouldn't feel hard. It actually should be really enlightening and really fun. And then you get to Move on like, you know, it's yeah, but otherwise you can spin and spin and spin and you know There's so many rabbit holes that you can go down but the the fundamentals of story Haven't changed in thousands of years. They're they're timeless Yeah. So, yeah. So, on that note, what are some steps that people listening to this can take with them and go do today, this weekend, and start crafting a really powerful story for themselves? Well, the most important thing that you can do For your story is really be able to articulate your client's problem. In their words, when you get on the phone with them,  what are they complaining to you about in their words? And so part of the process of the freebie that if you decide to download or watch, um, is really articulating that problem and just brain dumping it, get it out of your head and onto paper. And.  Again, like always come back to the words that they use. We want to meet them where they are. We want them to help them feel seen and heard. Every story always begins with a hero that has a problem. So we always want to begin our story with a hero. The hero that has a problem and your clients are the hero. So that's what I want you to get out of your head and onto paper. Um, and then step two would really be articulating how you solve that problem. So positioning your service as the solution to that problem, that's going to be. Really important as well, but it doesn't have to be Wordy or lengthy it can be five to eight words And then the last part of the story is really painting that picture of success So what are the what's their life going to be like after they've solved this problem? Not these are not features of working with you or benefits of working with you. This is like really How's their life going to be better once this problem is solved? So when you, that's kind of the shortest, uh, version of the story is what I call the one liner that accordion and it's most condensed form, but those, Fundamentals are the same once you widen that accordion out and those core foundational elements of story are going to inform your longer story as well.  I love it. You're so great with words. No wonder you're successful with what you do. Um, I will put everything in the show notes for you guys at reddoordesigns. com. If you're just itching to get there and look at everything that Chris has going on, go Um, anything that you'd like to close this out with today? This has been a really fantastic conversation. I think this is something that all the entrepreneurs I know in my realm are really going to enjoy hearing.  Yeah. Um, no, I feel like we've covered so much territory in a relatively short period of time, I would just say like  the, the biggest takeaway I'd love everyone to really.  It digest is that you are the guide in the story and your clients are the hero. And when you look at everything through that lens.  You're going to start to stand out in your industry. Oh, the other thing I wanted to share for, for the newbies, or if you're new to your industry and you're like, well, I don't, I haven't been on a bunch of client calls, so I don't know what their problems are in their words.  Find a book that go to Amazon and find a book that solves the problem that you also solve. And then look at the reviews of that book and see what people are talking about. around what they were struggling with before they read the book and what the book solved for them. So that can be a little like hack. Of course, you've got chat GPT, um, as a resource, which can be really helpful. Like, As  you know, to, to keep you from staring at a blank screen, that being said, the chat GPT cannot replace you getting clear on your own story. Like  AI really relies on you to feed it really valuable, clear information. So you have to do the heavy lifting of. Creating your story and the foundational elements of at first, once you do that, then you can use an AI tool to really help you, um,  help you expand that story.  Yeah. I mean, honestly, for me, AI, I see it as more of like a thesaurus. If I don't have the right way, I want to say something, but it's never to help me figure out what to say. Exactly. And I do think that's a distinction that has gotten away from us in this current  era. Yeah. That we're in. Oh, I, I'm, I'm, I come across so many websites that I'm like, oh, classic AI class.  Embark on a journey with me and  . Yeah. All the things, all the extra fluff. Right. I think that is something that AI has not. quite learned yet is to get rid of some of the fluff because some of the words, the adjectives and things that I use is I'm like, who speaks like this? Nobody. Well, it re it relies on fluff because we're not feeding it tangible, clear foundational.  elements of story. And so it's like, just, it's winging it. Um, and it doesn't, it doesn't feel good to the reader.  Yeah. Well, this was a fantastic episode. Anybody who's struggling with copywriting feels like their website isn't doing what it should be doing, right. Selling and getting, helping people get to know you and your business. Um, this is an episode you're going to want to tune into head to the show notes so you can, um, snag that five minute video on Chris's site and, um, get connected with her, ask her questions, all the things I'm sure she'd love to connect.  Thank you so much for being here, Chris. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. All right. Bye. Bye.  Thank you so much for listening to branded the podcast, please rate and review. And for more information, visit social Jane media. com I'll see you soon.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-hailey ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Hailey ### Page ID: 6395608 ### Content: ## Ever feel like you're too close to your own business to see it clearly? Like you can create amazing results for your clients but somehow get stuck when it comes to your own marketing? #### –Hailey Evans, Coach **That's exactly where Hailey was before we worked together.** **"I can do this all day long for people, but I couldn't do it for myself,"** she told me. For 6 months, she struggled with a website that didn't match her brand and messaging that didn't capture her true value. But here's what changed after we implemented my Story-Selling System: The best part? Hailey’s investment paid off quickly. As she put it, **"You're going to reap the rewards not just from the first or second sale, but long-term... it's a very wise investment for long-term growth."** Ready to get the same clarity and results for your business? Book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://go.satva.io/widget/bookings/money-making-messaging-call) [](https://go.satva.io/widget/bookings/money-making-messaging-call)with me today. We'll dig deep into your message and create the kind of clarity that converts browsers into buyers. "I feel more confident, better prepared, and even excited to do sales calls because I have a framework that simply walks people through the narrative. I had that whole bottle effect where I was too close to my business and couldn’t talk about it clearly.  I now have a beautiful website. Our work together has definitely shortened the sales cycle for me too, so that’s been huge!" *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-dominick ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Dominick ### Page ID: 6411068 ### Content: ## Have you ever known exactly what you wanted to say about your business, but just couldn't find the right words? ## "I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! ## This is the best money I've spent since opening my business. I'm more confident with less stress...and crushing it!" #### –Dominick Nusdeu, Business Owner **That's where Dominic was before we worked together.** As a Fitness and Jujitsu Club owner, he would get technical when describing his business, which led to confusion. The result? He wasn't attracting the right clients who truly needed his help. Then we implemented my Story-Selling System, and everything changed: His very first ad using our new messaging became his best-performing ad ever, generating a 6:1 return rate. But the real magic? The people who responded. One woman with cancer called him in tears, saying his ad spoke directly to her heart when no one else could help. **"I made the investment back in a weekend times 20," Dominic told me. "It was the best money I've spent since I opened my business."** Ready to turn your jumbled thoughts into magnetic messaging that attracts your perfect clients? Book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call) [](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call)with me today. Let's create the kind of clarity that converts. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-template-a ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Template A ### Page ID: 6431158 ### Content: ## Headline ## Quote #### –Name **That's where Dominic was before we worked together.** *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/agents-of-change ### Title: Crafting a Signature Story for Business Growth, with Rich Brooks and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6445863 ### Content: ## Crafting a Signature Story for Business Growth ## The Agents of Change Podcast, with Kris Jones and Rich Brooks Crafting a Signature Story for Business Growth, with Rich Brooks and Kris Jones Have you ever struggled to explain your business without sounding like everyone else in your industry? There's a counterintuitive reason why – and it could be costing you your best clients. In a recent conversation with Rich Brooks, we uncovered why most business owners accidentally sabotage their own marketing — by taking the WRONG role in their story. **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? The critical mindset shift that transformed one coach's close rate from 20% to 95% ? Why being the "hero" of your story is secretly pushing clients away ⚡️ The "accordion method" that turns one story into content for every platform Running a business is demanding enough without the constant pressure of explaining your value in a crowded market. I know how frustrating it is to watch potential clients choose your competitors, even when you know you could help them. That's why I'm excited to share this conversation that shows how the most successful businesses aren't telling their story – they're inviting clients into a story with them. **Rich:** She was mentored by the author of Building a Story Brand, Donald Miller himself, and has over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike and Adidas under her belt. That has fueled her passion to help coaches and service providers replace all of their marketing with a single story so that they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best today. We’re going to be looking at how you can create a signature story that will help your business grow with Kris Jones. Kris, welcome to the podcast. **Rich:** So tell me a little bit about this concept of the signature story. And why do you feel that it’s so important for entrepreneurs and business owners to develop one? **Kris:** Your signature story really focuses on… the goal of it is to really connect with your ideal audience, and it’s the most effective way to do that. Your signature story is actually a narrative. That you craft that invites your potential clients or customers into a story with you a story where they play the hero, they play the character of the hero, and you play the character of the guide. So you are not even the central character of your own story. Your clients are. And when they interact with your brand or business, and they get a sense and a feeling that they’re important, that they matter, that they’re a priority to you, it’s a really different way of interacting with a brand and it feels really good. Like when they come across you online or go to your website and they are invited into this narrative with you, it really feels like you get them. They feel like, oh my gosh, they’re in my head. They really understand me. And not only that, I really matter to them. Not only that, I’m not alone in this struggle. And not only that, if they can articulate my struggle this well, they must be the best ones to solve it. So it is the most, after 23 years of being in the marketing industry, using story is the most effective way to build trust and to establish a connection and resonance with a potential client. Better than any other approach that I’ve found. So that’s why I focus on that with all my clients because story is the thing that will truly move the needle for their business in the quickest way. **Rich:** So ‘story’ is an interesting word because we’ve all been told how important it is. But I know that there’s probably a lot of people listening who are just like, *“I’m not a born storyteller, I can’t do this.”* I’m sure you’ve heard that, Kris, so many times before. What do you say when somebody tells you that? **Kris:** I’m going to let everybody off the hook. Because like I said before, your story isn’t even about you, so it doesn’t matter what your background is. It doesn’t matter where you came from, what your roots are. What matters to your potential clients is that you can tell a story that really shows them that they matter. And that you can tell a story that really shows your empathy for your potential clients, and also your authority. They don’t really care all that much about the founder’s story. What they care about is, can you solve my problem? And if you can show in your story, if you can show that authority that you know how to solve this problem for them and that you really care, you’ve got the heart for them, that’s really what your story is all about. **Rich:** So walk me through what you do with your clients. Because I hear what you’re saying, but whether or not I’m the hero of the story or the guide of the story if I don’t feel comfortable telling stories. I’ve never been able to tell stories at parties, I’ve never been great at networking. It still may feel intimidating. So when you’re working with your clients, what are some of the steps you take them through to help them develop this signature story? **Kris:** Yeah. So first off, your story doesn’t have to be this big, long, drawn out thing. Really, I think of story as ingredients. There’s components to every story. And when you have all those ingredients together, you’re telling a really clear and compelling story, but it doesn’t have to be sequential from beginning to end all the way through. So in fact, the more you can combine these ingredients together and share them in bite-sized chunks, the easier it is for the listeners brain to digest them. It might be helpful if I share with you what are those ingredients and how do we put them together? How do I create these components for each of my clients? Every story you’ve ever heard, every movie you’ve ever been to, every book you’ve ever read, always begins with a character that has a problem. We call this character the hero. And as I said before, your customers or your clients are always the hero in this story. They’re out and about, they’re stuck with this problem, they don’t know how to solve the problem. If they could, they would have done it already. So they’re out and about on the internet asking their network. They’re looking for a guide. And so about a third of the way through the story, a guide enters them. And that is you as the business owner, or you as the solopreneur, you are always the guide. You’re always the Yoda or the Mr. Miyagi. And you step into the story, and you give them a very clear and simple plan. It’s typically a three-step plan. And people tend to overlook this, or they don’t have this on their website, or they don’t incorporate this in their story. But the plan is really a critical part of the story because the plan breaks it down for them into three simple steps. And when they read this plan, they think to themselves, “Oh my gosh, finding success solving my problem It’s not as overwhelming and impossible as I’ve been thinking it would be. In fact, I can do this step one, two, three, I can do this.” And when they have that thought in their brain, they become inspired to take action. They’re reminded, okay, this is possible. And then they click on your call to action. So as the guide, you step in, you give them a plan. The plan calls them to action. The call to action is the whole point. That’s the whole reason we have a website. That’s how we know our website is working is people are clicking on the call to action. So this plan that you’ve provided for them calls them to action. They click on that call to action, and we pull them through this story through what I call stakes. And stakes just mean we’re really going to communicate with them that by solving this problem, they’re going to find success. But also, by clicking on this call to action, it’s going to help them avoid failure. Our brains are even more driven to avoid failure than we are to find success. So we always want to have one of these ingredients in the story, be reminding them that we’re going to help them avoid failure. Failure could happen. We’re going to help you avoid it. So the components of story are the character or the hero, the problem that they have, the guide as the secondary character in the story. The guide gives them a plan. The plan is another component. The call to action is another component. And then stakes are another component, meaning success and failure. When you have all those components together on a page or inside of a conversation, you’re telling a really clear and compelling story that your potential clients really resonate with and they’re inspired to take action and want to take that next step to work with you. **Rich:** Awesome. And can you give us an example of a particularly powerful signature story that maybe you’ve worked with one of your clients on so we can get a sense of how this all comes together? **Kris:** Yeah. I’ve worked with so many clients over the years. I work with a lot of coaches and consultants. There’s one that comes to mind. Her name’s Andrea, and she works with women who are navigating infidelity, and she steps in a really critical time. These women are often, they don’t know if they should move forward with the relationship, if they should cut their losses and leave the relationship. And so she comes in and she makes them the central character in her story. And she, the header of her website is, *“I help women navigating infidelity know what they’re going to do next.”* It’s something along those lines. So then when they land on her website, they know immediately what she does, who she helps, and what she wants them to do next. Which is really the most important thing we can do up in that header section is just answer those three questions. What do you do? How’s it going to make my life better? What do you want me to do next? And prior to working with me, she had up there, *“Hi, I’m Andrea. I’m a coach. I’ve been doing this work for three years*” or however long, and so it just was about her. **Rich:** It was me, me, me, and it was meandering, it sounds like. And instead, you helped her flip that script. **Kris:** A hundred percent. And what happened was her people started really resonating with her website. They started joining her program. They started booking calls with her. But what was really cool is that the way she navigated her sales calls completely changed as well. And I think that’s a strategic byproduct of this work of when you get really clear about the problem you solve, who you’re really helping and your role in this. The way you talk about your business in every area of your business changes. And she used to dread her sales calls, and she was closing, I think, like 20%, which isn’t actually all that bad at all. But after she got clarity with our work together, she was able to really feel confident on the inside. Her inner world changed because she really knew beyond a shadow of a doubt the power of the work that she was doing. And she began to look at her sales calls as just, *“Hey, I’m going to show you how I can help you.”* It’s not, I’m trying to sell you, or I’m trying to get you to join. I’m just going to show you how I can help you. And that shift, and then she would even pull up her website – which I recommend my clients do all the time – pull up your website when you’re on a sales call so that language that we’ve carefully crafted is right there for you. And what are the benefits of this? So what are the problems that you’re potentially navigating right now? And yeah, her closed rate actually went up to 95%. So for every10 calls she got on, nine and a half of them turned into clients, which was extraordinary. And that doesn’t happen with all my clients, but that’s a really good example of how once you get clear with the way you’re outward facing, the way you show up online outwardly absolutely informs the way you show up for yourself inwardly as well. **Rich:** It also sounds like you helped her shift to that guide position as well. So when she got on those sales calls, they were no longer sales calls. She was just there to guide that person through, whether she got the sale or not. So suddenly, it was so much easier for her actually to close those sales. **Kris:** That’s the most important thing that we did. We shifted her role in her story. So I’m thinking about this, and obviously there’s a lot of ways to tell a story. There are long stories or short stories. We obviously have multiple channels when we’re in the digital world. And of course, there’s also channels outside of the digital world. How do we take this one signature story and tell it in multiple places on our website, through social media, through email and so on, without it feeling redundant or without it feeling forced into different positions or forced into different channels? **Kris:** That’s such a good question. So your signature story, it contains all those different components that I just walked you through. But, it works a lot like an accordion. So your signature story on a podcast or on your website, it might be longer, might be at the wider version of the accordion. And then also what I do for my clients is I write a video script using their signature story. That’s going to be more in the middle range length. And then we’ve got your one liner or your Instagram profiles, which have to be like more of the condensed version of the story. So your story really expands and contracts depending on where it’s living. And this is a beautiful thing, because as business owners, we’re wearing all kinds of hats. And anytime you can just simplify your life and if you can simplify your marketing, all the better. And because it’s varying in length, the story is the same, but it feels a little bit different because the length of it is changing and where it’s appearing is different. So the beautiful thing is, I call it the lazy man’s marketing approach. Because you don’t have to keep reinventing the wheel over and over again. And yes, people think, okay, is this redundant or are people going to wonder why you keep saying the same thing over and over again. Dude, like enough already. But people need to hear things like eight times before they can actually commit it to memory. So it really does pay like it’s less effort for sure. It’s more consistent and cohesive across all your platforms. And then what happens is as a business, one of our biggest challenges is being memorable, becoming memorable. And this approach allows people to really begin to remember you. And so when they have the problem or when the problem comes up in their life that you solve, you are the first person that they think of. Same thing if somebody in their network is looking for somebody that solves the problem you solve. You come to mind first, because you’ve been beating the same damn drum over and over again until it’s really absorbed in people’s cellular memories. **Rich:** All right. Now you mentioned these video scripts that you help your clients write or that you write for your clients, and that’s a key part of the process. What elements do you prioritize for the shorter form storytelling to help increase conversions? **Kris:** Yeah, there’s really in the script, it’s a little bit different than the core components that I walked you through, just slightly. We always begin that script with the aspirational identities. So who do your clients want to become? Or another way to ask this question is, how would they want people to describe them as? So we enter in with that. We always start with empathy. Because as the guide, your job is to show up with empathy and authority. So we lead with empathy, and then we move into the aspirational identity. And then it really does just follow the format of story. So it’s, the problem is this, and that can leave you feeling this way. And philosophical statement around what you believe is true. That there’s a better way, essentially, that it shouldn’t be so hard. And then you move into some authority. That’s why I’ve spent the last 20 years doing this work, and I’ve made it my mission to help so and so – teachers like you or therapists like you – and then achieve that success, achieve that ultimate benefit that’s at the end of the story. And then I always like to add in, because when people come to your website, one of the things they’re asking is, how are you different from everybody else? Most markets are just pretty saturated. And so in that script, I include a whole section about here’s what makes my approach unique. And then I go through that, too. So it’s a little bit nuanced, but it still follows that same story flow. **Rich:** Okay. Now you’ve mentioned you work with a lot of coaches. How do you think that a signature story differs between somebody who might be working on their own, like a coach or a consultant, versus someone who’s leading a company? So if we’re the owner of a company like I am, am I telling my story or am I telling flyte new media’s story? **Kris:** You’re telling your company’s story. So whether it’s you as the owner of the company or the company, people want to know there’s a human behind this company. So if it were you, and I work with a lot of small businesses that have multiple employees or small teams, but I always put my client or the founder or the owner as the spokesman for the business. So I would put you at the forefront and you would be speaking in first person to the reader. **Rich:** Okay. That makes sense. That’s helpful. Now I’m sure because I’ve been in business for 27 years and I’ve met many entrepreneurs throughout my experience, that some of them are going to want to be the hero, no matter what. So what do you do when you run into somebody who wants to make themselves a hero of the story? What is the shift that you need to convince them of so that they realize that they’ll be so much more successful as the guide in this case and not as the hero? **Kris:** That is one of the best questions I’ve ever received. I love it. Basically, it’s really a matter of education. I think part of my work is all about writing, and another I think equal part of my work is really about educating my clients and helping them really understand the why behind everything that I’ve written and the strategy of why it works. Because at the end of the day, as a business owner or solopreneur, we just want our marketing to be effective. So whatever it takes to become effective, they’re usually open and willing to. And even if they’re attached to being that hero character, what I find is super helpful, and honest to God, with all the people I’ve worked with, I’ve never had a problem or had anyone push back. Because I share with them, there’s only room for one hero in every story. And so when you are the hero of your own story, you kick your potential clients out of that narrative with you. You literally kick them out. So they don’t feel, they can’t imagine themselves working with you. They don’t feel a connection with you. But the thing that really drives the point home is that we don’t want to be the hero, because the hero is the weakest character in the story. We don’t know if that hero is going to find success or if they’re going to fail. And that’s why we go to a movie and we put our butts in that theater seat and we don’t get up and leave until the very end of the movie. It’s because we don’t know if that hero is going to succeed or not. Are they going to fail? And we are fully engaged until we find out. So that’s why we don’t want to be the hero of the story. We want to be the strongest character in the story. We want to be the Yoda. We want to be the Mr. Miyagi. We want to be Hamish in Hunger Games because that character knows what they’re doing, and they know how to guide that hero to success and they don’t need to even brag or boast. They just have to show up with empathy and understanding, a big heart, and the experience to solve the problem. **Rich:** Awesome. Great stuff. I know that you’ve got a free gift for some of our listeners to help them learn and communicate their own value and write truly compelling copy in only five minutes. That’s at reddoordesigns.com/free-resources. That is going to be in the show notes. Kris, if people are interested in learning more or working with you, where can we send them? **Kris:** The best place to find me is at reddoordesigns.com. That’s R E D D O O R D E S I G N S dot com. And when you go there, you’ll see a blue button that says, ‘book a money-making messaging call with me’. And you and I are going to take 40 minutes to look at your story and look at your website, see how you’re showing up online. And I’m going to identify the areas that need to be tuned up, and give you reassurance for the areas that you’re doing great. And you’ll learn a lot. It’s a free call so I would encourage everybody to book one of those calls. **Rich:** Sounds great. Kris, thank you so much for coming by today. I really appreciate it. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/click ### Title: Click ### Page ID: 6616906 ### Content: #### Turn Your Website Into a Client-Converting Machine. Get Instant Access to All Resources. # Free Resource Library Includes: #### Story-Driven Wireframe Template #### Website Design Guide #### Real Story-Driven Website Examples #### Story-Driven Sales Call Script & Training #### Gather Testimonials That Sell Training #### Curated Reading List # Additional Offerings #### **Elevate Your First Impression, Build Trust and Get More Clients With Professional AI Headshots** #### **Get More Email Subscribers & Grow Your List Quickly with a 1:1 Lead Magnet Strategy Session** # Need a Website Revamp? ## I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! #### This is the best money I've spent since opening my business. I'm more confident with less stress... and crushing it! ## Getting this clear about what I do was priceless. #### You can't put a price tag on it because the the benefits will continue as long as I'm working. It's timeless! **And the psychology behind Kris' approach totally blew my mind!** ## I love Kris Jones’ work! #### **"Marketing should not be a black box investment. It won't be if you hire Kris."** Skip the guesswork and map out your high-converting website with my simple roadmap. Transform your story into a visually stunning website that builds trust. See how successful businesses are using storytelling to attract their ideal clients (and how you can too). Increase conversions with my natural, non-pushy conversation framework. Learn exactly how to collect and showcase powerful client stories that do the selling for you. Dive deeper into storytelling with my hand-picked book recommendations. **Stand out instantly with cutting-edge AI photography that captures your authentic expertise. No awkward photoshoots, no travel needed — just polished, professional images that build immediate trust with potential clients.** **Stop wasting time with generic PDFs that no one downloads. Together, we'll craft an irresistible lead magnet that speaks directly to your ideal clients' biggest challenges and positions you as their trusted solution.** **Let's hop on a call and talk about working together to create your Story-Driven Website.** **Click the button below to find a spot in my calendar.** *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Build instant credibility on your website, linked in and everywhere you use a photo. - Look like the expert you are - Get multiple professional looks - Save thousands compared to traditional photography - Make a memorable first impression that converts - Design a high-value resource your audience actually wants - Create a strategic plan to grow your email list organically - Stand out from competitors with unique, actionable content - Get clear direction on implementation and promotion - Turn website visitors into eager subscribers - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/wantrepreneur ### Title: How One Story Can Replace All of Your Marketing with Clarity and Effectiveness, with Brian Lofrumento and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6653594 ### Content: ## How One Story Can Replace All Your Marketing With Clarity and Effectiveness ## The Wantrepreneur to Entrepreneur Podcast, with Kris Jones and Brian Lofrumento How One Story Can Replace All of Your Marketing with Clarity and Effectiveness, with Brian Lofrumento and Kris Jones Tired of the content hamster wheel? Here's a hot take: creating fresh content for every platform might actually be hurting your business. I recently chatted with Brian Lufromento about why one powerful story beats endless content creation.  ? The "Bottle Effect" keeping you stuck in content creation mode  ? How one coach now closes 95% of sales calls (without the ick factor)  ⚡️ Why being boring > being creative in marketing (and how to nail it) Look, running a business is hard enough without the pressure to churn out content 24/7. If you're drowning in social posts, emails, and blogs while trying to actually serve your clients - I've got you. Hit play to learn how to replace your scattered marketing with one story that sells for you. More impact, less hustle? Yes please.  Hey, what is up? Welcome to this episode of the wantrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast. As always, I'm your host, Brian Lofermento, and I'm going to make a huge claim that I've never made in this podcast history over 1000 episodes. And I can confidently say that today's guests, as soon as our team landed on her website, we were unanimous in the fact that. This is the best copy we've ever seen. If you read through her stuff, there's only one thing you're hoping for at the bottom of her page. And that is a buy now button because today's guest is truly incredible with words and copywriting. And most importantly, above all of those things, what fuels it. Stories and telling the right story. So let me tell you all about today's guest. Her name is Kris Jones, and in Kris's bio, I, I wanna read this to you because I think that this is immediately going to stoke those pain points that we all feel you ready for this? Most business owners miss out on sales because their website copy isn't working. The truth is being good at what you do is very different than being good at talking about what you do. Kris's signature story selling system helps consultants, coaches, and service providers replace all of their marketing with a single story so they can attract more clients, amplify revenue, and enjoy more time freedom. Kris founded her company, Red Door Stories, in 2003 and was mentored by Donald Miller, who is the author of Building a Story Brand. She's worked with high profile companies including Nike and Adidas. But her favorite clients are self employed service providers because they struggle the most with copywriting and can experience the greatest benefits once they get their story right. Some of the extraordinary results she's helped them achieve include increasing revenue by 300%, scaling from 3, 30 K months to 300 K months. I personally know how many of you listeners are interested in that sort of scale. Charging six times more for the same service, booking a record breaking amount of lead calls. All of this stuff that Kris is going to teach us today can transform not just your marketing, but your business and how excited people are to work with you. I know that because I'm excited to learn from Kris here today. So I'm not going to say anything else. Let's dive straight into my interview with Kris Jones.  All right, Kris, I'm so very excited that you're here with us today. First things first, welcome to the show.   Ah, thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.  Heck yes. Kris, I will transparently tell you this. I'm always excited to introduce our guests, but there was a little extra excitement in your intro today because the work you do is incredible. You've got to take us beyond the bio to kick things off. Who's Kris? How did you start doing all these amazing things?   Wow. That's a big question. Um, well,  where do I begin with that? It's been a long and wonderful road. I started way back in the early two thousands. Um, I, I got initially into brand design, so I felt like my calling back then was really all about storytelling through visual storytelling and I. Really cut my teeth in the industry doing that and working with larger companies around that and  as time went on, I really was drawn to the solopreneurs and the small business owners and the entrepreneurs and, um,  And over time, really the landscape online shifted. So I had been working with a lot of clients on designing beautiful websites. And I would really ask my clients to provide me with the copy for those websites and they would. I would watch them struggle with it. They might hire a copywriter. They might try and do it themselves. What would happen most often is they would call me and say, I'm not going to reach this due date, um, for when I need to hand my copy over to you so you can start the design of the website. And they would, if they hired a copywriter, they would. feel like the copy just felt a little off. It didn't feel really aligned with their voice. So I watched that struggle happen enough that I just put my foot down and said, I'm not going to let my clients go through this anymore. And  that was about the same time that like  I should start here when I started All you needed to be a legitimate business was to have a website online. This is like  2008.  If you had a website, you were legit and you would get business. And then over the years that that really shifted and it became very clear to me that. The words that you say on your website, the story that you tell on your website is really the foundation of your brand and the design is actually a secondary. And so once I realized that, I, I really just made it my mission to learn how to tell a really powerful story online for business owners and I traveled across the the country for workshops, I read books, I became one of the very first story brand guides, which, um, was even before the book building a story brand came out. So that really filled my toolbox with a lot more knowledge and wisdom around, um, how to tell a really powerful story and how to turn your website into your most. powerful sales employees. So, um, as I started to learn this new approach or these new tools in my toolbox and started implementing those, my clients started calling me with incredible results. Like it was so affirming because it was like, wow, this is working and it's working immediately. And. At the same time, I was applying these same principles of storytelling to my own marketing and to my own website, and the same thing was happening to me. I was getting clients like that were traveling to Portland to meet me because they wanted to work together on big projects and, um, my Sales calls were getting booked out. My project calendar was getting booked out and I started to really have consistent revenue every month. And prior to that, I had been really relying a lot on referrals and as great as referrals are, they're not the most consistent from month to month. And. It's stressful to run a business on referrals. I really knew that I wanted to create an engine for my business that would really turn that website into a top sales employee and I wanted to be able to really guarantee to my clients that I was going to set them up with the tools to do that too.  Yeah, Kris, I love that overview, especially because hearing you talk about it and really when you took us into that part of the story about watching other people try to write website copy, it's something that All of us can relate to every single person who's hearing us right now can relate to that, where we figure out what is our headline going to be? Okay, perfect. What do we write underneath that headline? It doesn't sound like you're giving us a way to do that. It sounds like what you're telling us is a completely different alternative to the way that we've always viewed that. It seems different, not a different way to do it. So I want to start there. What is the difference when you talk about starting with that story? What does that even look like? Cause most people probably haven't even seen that.   Yeah, well, it is different. Um, but also it's the way story is told in every book you've ever read, every movie you've ever watched, uh, uh, real. Story always begins with a hero that has a problem. They don't know how to solve, and they're stuck in that problem. That's why we get engaged in stories. That's why when we go to a movie, we sit in that chair for 90 minutes and we don't even check our phone. Nothing has the power to capture our attention like stories do. So  I'll give you like the. Quick 20 second overview of what a story is. And then I'll talk about how to apply that in your own business. So  every story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. They're out and about on the internet, asking their friends, they're looking for a guide who can help them solve that problem. And the guide shows up about a third of way of the way in the story and really has a plan to help that hero navigate their way to success. And the way that story works in marketing, when it's done well, is really positioning yourself as the guide in the story and your clients as the hero of the story, the hero that that's really putting your potential clients. First and foremost, and letting them know that they matter, that you understand them, you help them feel seen and heard, and then you enter into the story about a third of the way through. So it's a very different way of moving through a website. And it feels, I like to say, it feels like when you come to a website that, that really uses story in the right way, it feels like you're getting a hug, which is pretty cool. So the, the main thing here is that. You are the guide in the story and your clients are the hero. Yeah, I love that overview, Kris, especially because obviously there's so many things, intricacies within each ingredient that you just went over for us. And I'm going to go here because I know that a lot of listeners, we've obviously heard about storytelling and marketing and business before, but a lot of them will get. Caught up at that first obstacle, which is Kris, I don't have a story. You're talking about my clients being the heroes of a story. But what if I don't even have any clients? Like, how do I start uncovering this in order to find the right story?   Yeah, well, the key is really honing in on who you work with or who you want to work with. And even if you have to kind of brainstorm it, if you don't have clients yet, you can, you can do that. There are ways. To find that information. But the top priority is to really hone in on what is that hero struggling with the most? And I ask my clients, I say, when you're on the phone with your clients, what are they complaining about? What are they waking up in the middle of the night and ruminating on? And if you don't have clients yet, you can find a book that  talks about the type of work that you're doing or helping that's helping the same audience that you want to help. And you can look at the reviews of that book on Amazon and get language from there. When people talk about the book there, they'll often talk about what they were struggling with and what the book solved for them.   Yeah, definitely so many sources at this point. I think that brainstorming and content should be the least of our excuses these days because we've got AI. We've got product reviews on Amazon. You're right that the real life feedback conversations on Reddit and other social media platforms. It's just abundant that we can tap into that language regardless of where we are inside of that circle or outside of it. So Kris, I appreciate those insights. I want to kick things up a notch because I've gone so deep inside of your work and I love the way that you do everything and I I want to iterate for listeners here today that we're not just talking as I alluded to, we're not just talking about a way to do your marketing. We're talking about, I'm just going to read a headline from your website, how I replaced almost all of my marketing with a single story. Kris, what does that mean to actually replace our marketing with a story?   So first I want to clarify your story, your marketing story.  You are a character in that story. It's not your founder's story. It's not about the history of your business and how your business came to be. It's really a story, a narrative that you're going to craft and this story invites. your potential clients into a narrative with you, a narrative where they're the hero and you're the guide. And so when you take the time to craft your own story in this way,  you,  you have a powerful way of. Communicating and connecting with people and really building trust because no one wants to work with you if they don't trust you. So we want to really double down on authentic connection and trust there and really inspire them to take action. I like to think of your signature story a lot like an accordion. So we write your signature story. This is what I do with all my clients, and it's the foundation of the work that we do. So we write the signature story, we get that on paper, and then it works a lot like an accordion. So let's just say your main story is here. You're the longest version of your story is here on your website. A shorter version of your story is going to be like a video script and a shorter version of it is going to be what I call a one liner or, uh, which is also kind of the answer to the question. What do you do? Um, It can also be used in all your social media profiles. So the idea is to have this one story  and you have different lengths of it or different versions of it, but it's all the same story. So everywhere you show up is online and in person is very, very consistent. You're using the same language. Many people might look at it like. This is too lazy. It should be harder. I should be reinventing my message and making it fresh, but actually people need to hear things eight times before they can commit it to memory. So it really serves you to be consistent with the same story over and over and over. Again, and that's the way you be become really memorable and that you're top of mind when somebody has that problem. They know that you're the person that solves it.  Yeah, Kris, I'll ask you this because I always think about the listeners and where they're at in their business journeys and Probably the things that they're screaming at their speakers right now saying, Brian, ask this one question. And it is, you seem so comfortable with the fact that you just made it the end there, which is we don't need to reinvent anything. And I would argue that entrepreneurs, it's almost a great thing, but to a fault is that we love creating things. We love putting the work in. And so a lot of entrepreneurs, they'll launch a new product or a new service. They'll create an entirely new course. Come up with 50 different social media post ideas rather than doubling down or 10 xing or 100 xing down on the thing that works. I see too many entrepreneurs think that new is always going to be the solution there. So I'm sure the critics might be thinking, well, Kris, do I vary the story? Do I, you know, if I'm on a podcast episode, do I talk about something slightly different when I'm doing a YouTube video or writing a blog post? Is it varied? How much variance is there versus no, this, this is the signature story that we're committing to and we're going to ride it.   Yeah. You, I would recommend you stick with your signature story and write it. It doesn't mean that you can't be creative within it, but really it's a lot like guardrails or like those bumpers that. That they've got in, in bowling alleys, it's like, it's really a filtration device to help you clear out the noise and really stay true to the core of your message. I think what happens is entrepreneurs is. We wear a lot of hats and we have this underlying belief that the harder we work, the more likely we are to succeed or make more money. And it's just not the case. You have to be very strategic in your energy is so valuable. So you really want to like be able to put your marketing tools on autopilot and just know they're working for you because you have plenty other. Hats to wear. Um, so you can focus on the work that you love. Nobody really becomes an entrepreneur because they love marketing. It's kind of like a necessary evil for most people. And so let, you know, build a foundation, create a consistent story. Let that work for you so you can focus on other things that are more important. Yeah. And listeners, I can tell you having done the research on Kris's work, one of the, the. Terms that I saw keep popping up in her copy is simplify to amplify. And so if you've been looking for that sort of permission in your business here, Kris is giving it to all of us today. So I so appreciate that, Kris, I want to ask you this next question. Cause I would imagine that part of your superpowers is that you talk about that noise. I would imagine you're incredible at stripping away that noise and. Asking the right questions to get at the stuff that matters. Talk to us about some of the questions that you ask your clients as part of that process. And I know a lot of it is your secret sauce, so you don't have to go too deep into it, but I'd love to hear some of those insights into where you at least start to uncover the signature story.   Yeah, I call this process. It's step one in my process. I call it mining for gold because your story is inside of you. It's in there. It's in your head and your heart. It's just kind of cluttered up with a lot of different other ideas. So it's hard to decipher. From inside your own brain, which is the gold and which is the clutter. And so that's why I come in with a fresh perspective and an expertise in story. And I can really identify that golden thread that is, is your story. Um, the reason this is so hard for entrepreneurs to do is because of what I call the bottle effect and the bottle effect is really writing your writing. Your own copy is really. hard because you're inside of the bottle. You're so close to your own business and you're inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. And so no matter how hard we try to work on our own copy, we just can't get the perspective that we need to read that label clearly. And so I come in and I'm mine for that gold. And I asked. you those questions to pull your story out of you. And as you can imagine,  we spend a fair amount of time really getting down the problem of what your clients are struggling with. And we take a lot of time with that. We also really take the time to envision a brighter future for our clients, like really showing them what's possible. That's a really important role as the guide. We. We become the guide in our story by showing up with really  authenticity and authority and but above and beyond that we show up with empathy and so really just showing up and Showing them a brighter future and really being clear on what's possible for them is a big part of it. I like to ask my clients, underneath it all, what do your clients really want? What do they really want underneath it all? Often it's a core desire like freedom or abundance or um, Wellness. So we kind of, we dig deep, but we go through all the layers together. It's, it's a really, really wonderful process. The other thing that we do is answer important questions that people have when they come to your website. So what is it about you that makes you and your approach different from everybody else's? Most industries are just so crowded online.  Whether it's the coaching industry or wellness industry, it's just, it's hard to really stand out from the crowd. And what happens is a lot of entrepreneurs look at their competitors websites for inspiration. And I totally understand why people do this and. But the downside is your website ends up kind of looking like, like everybody else's when we really want you to stand out. And the way to stand out is by telling a really powerful signature story. But also telling a really powerful visual story when the written story and the visual story are really in alignment and supporting each other, that's when you really bubble up to the top of the internet and begin to stand out as a leader in your industry.   Yeah, Kris, I really appreciate these insights into your actual strategy and the process really in uncovering all of this important work, because as someone who's seen what the end results look like, I just want to clarify that stuff for listeners, because I have the benefit of seeing your website beforehand and obviously while we're talking here today, but for listeners, I'll confess publicly that the one thing that stood out to me in the way that Kris's clients talk about the nature of this work is that it makes the hard decisions for them. So when you sit down to write copy, you're not thinking about it because you already have the answers. And Kris, I want to go here with you even during our conversation today about the output, because you're talking about the process that you go through, but I love that what they end up with is your brand copy Bible. One document that contains All the words you'll ever need to market your business. No more struggling with what to say. Just copy and paste it from your brand Bible. Talk to us about what's within there because on your website, I love how you lay it out about how those impacts are going to trickle into your website, which you talk to us about into your homepage video, into your lead magnet, your email marketing, talk to us about how powerful that document is and where the magic of it really lies. Oh, it's, it's incredibly powerful to have one document with everything in it. So yeah, all the deliverables are within that brand copy Bible, your video script, your website copy, your one liner, your, your unique way of doing your work, which is what I call like an infographic. So what's a visual that really shows your process and your unique way of doing things. And the beauty of the brand copy Bible is that we've broken down every aspect of your story. There are seven components to every story. And so we really delve deep into each of those components within the brand copy Bible. So you can pop in there. And use that copy and bring it into social media or bring it into, if you're sharing like a podcast introduction, if you're doing a podcast interview, I really recommend the one liner be put in your email, uh, signature. So every email that goes out that you send  really that repetition is, is key. It really repeats over and over what problem do you solve? And what's the happy end result that your clients are getting? That's like, that's  core in the one liner work that we do. But all of that is baked into the brand copy Bible, along with other trainings that show you how to infuse this story into your social media. And I actually encourage my. Clients to turn their Instagram grid into a really powerful sales page and then take the year off of posting. That's what I've done and it's working beautifully.   I love that perspective. Kris, this goes counter to most advice that people will hear on business podcasts and I'm here for it. Talk to us about that because a lot of people are encouraged to create all these new things as we talked about and social media is at the core of that, but you've talked about so many different ways that. This helps to grow our business. Obviously I'm a raving fan of your business. I feel like, you know, even unprompted you and I didn't interact much before we hit record today, but already I'm a fan of the way that your business shows up and the impact that you bring for your clients. And it comes not because of something I saw on your social media, but because of the words, talk to us about the power of that in a world where we're all pressured to make all these social media posts every day. And heck, if we listen to Gary V, he'll tell us to make 30 of those posts a day.  Yeah. I mean, in, in years past, I've fallen into that kind of belief that we have to be posting all the time and ever present in order to, you know, stay top of mind, um, and be  You know, be visible and to get clients. Um,  but it just never felt really aligned with my approach to marketing and the way that I want to run my business and the time capacity that I have, which is fairly limited as a parent. Um, and. So I essentially what I did is took the story components and turned my Instagram grid grid into a really powerful sales page at by telling a story. So when someone learns about you, whether it's online or through a podcast interview, I mean, you, you still have to market your business. You just don't have to do everything. Um, I kind of, I like to think of marketing as hub and spoke visuals. So your websites in the middle of that and everything you do around  to market your business points to the website because you just have trust and know that the website is the tool that's. That's doing the most powerful work of selling for you. So there's all kinds of ways that you can market your business. I often market my business through podcast interviews. You can market your business through social media. You can market it through networking events. Um, you can do all kinds of things, but whatever you do, I, I say pick one or two that you actually really like to do. So my two are email marketing and. Podcast interviews, and then I point everybody to my website and then that does the converting for me.   Yeah, I want to ask you this question then because The deeper I went into your work It seems like the real trickle down effect comes in that sales and that conversion because you talk about your website Doing a lot of that work for you. And it's how I felt as a consumer going to your website. I meant what I said in the intro, which is I wish there was a buy now button at the bottom, Kris. And I can understand how intimate your process is working one on one with people that it leads to a conversation. But I want to ask you about how different that means your sales processes, because it just seems to me from the outside looking in, I'm making an assumption right now, but you view sales in the same way that I do, which is. It's not pushy. You and I are not classically trained sales people out of Grant Cardone University or whatever it is that he's out there pushing today. And so instead we believe in having a real conversation and doing it on a really human level. What have you found to be the impacts of the signature storytelling approach on those sales conversations? Because I would imagine that most of your sales conversations don't even revolve around sales and they probably feel like the first session in the two of you working together.   Yeah, I think one of the biggest strategic byproducts of getting clear on your own story is that you've got the words internally, uh, for your story. They're also on your website, but you just show up on your sales calls. So much more confidence because you know, the words to say, and this is not about memorizing a script, but you understand fundamentally, uh, uh, the problem that you solve and really how you help your clients achieve success. And there's a lot of components in between there, but when you show up to those calls with confidence, I mean, my clients and I can vouch for this for myself, I never feel like I'm selling. I'm just. Just walking my clients through the process that I use and connecting with them around their struggle and helping reassure them that I can help them resolve it. And so it very much does not feel like a sales call, which who wants to be sold to anyway? So it's, it's a real gift to actually look forward to sales calls, which is what a lot of my clients do. And one, one client in particular,  her name's Andrea, she was closing about 25 percent of her sales calls, which is actually quite good. But once we got her story in place and she really knew on a cellular level, how powerful the work that she did. Is she showed up to those sales calls with such confidence and such clarity that she began to close 95 percent of her sales calls. So every call that was booked, she would close and it was pretty incredible for her business.  Yeah, Kris, I knew that time would run by so quickly here today, but I want to squeeze in two questions because part of your magic, gosh, I could pull out so many different things that make you so unique and incredible at all the things you do, but part of what stood out for me is your testimonials. Kris, not only do you do great work and not only can you articulate that work very clearly, but your clients genuinely love you and they love raving about the work that you do with them as well and the impacts that you deliver. So my question to you is business owner to business owner, how are you getting such amazing testimonials from these clients?  I am so glad you asked that question because for my clients, they, you know, they, they struggle with that and they come to me and they're like, number one, they say, I felt good about working with you because you have so many people raving about the work that you've done for them. So it really does help my business. But what I have done internally for that is it truly, it comes back to storytelling again. I, what I do with my clients is I schedule a 10 minute. That's all it takes. It's a 10 minute wrap up call about a month after our project is complete. And I asked them four questions. The four questions I ask, pull that story out of them and speak to the transformation that happened to them. And then I. Edit those interviews in descript and I upload them. So it's, it's, it's a really, um, I think it's a really important thing for entrepreneurs to ask their clients for testimonials, but even the best of clients, they want to give us a raving review, but they don't know what to say. It really does come back to that. Like it's that ripple effect of struggle around copy. And so what they end up. Like when you kind of put this ask on your clients to give you a review,  they're looking at a blank screen, like a blank Google doc and trying to figure out what to say. And they, they end up saying things like, Oh, Jenny was so fun to work with. We really clicked. Um, I really enjoyed the process. And I'd highly recommend working with her again. And while it feels good to hear those words about ourselves that were fun or great or smart, really the best testimonials aren't really about you. They're about your client and they're about the transformation that happened for them through working with you. Like who did they become because. They got to work with you. And so when you ask the right questions, and I have trainings on my process around this, because I've honed it and streamlined it so well and made it very efficient for my clients and very efficient for me. So it's, um, it's just,  it just lets everybody off the hook because your clients. Rather than trying to come up with something to say about working with you, you ask them for strategic questions and pull that testimonial out of them. And then you compile those answers together into one narrative.  Yeah, I appreciate those insights and that transparency, and I really love the way you articulated there of it lets them off the hook. I, as a podcast host, I get so many emails from listeners all over the world, and I love every single one of those emails, listeners, so keep them coming. But the ones that are so broad and it puts the onus on me, Kris, those are the hardest ones to answer. When someone says, I'm just starting my business. What advice do you have? Gosh, I want to help you in a million ways, but I don't know where to start. Whereas those ones that say, Hey, I'm really struggling with sales and this is what my process looks like. What do you see from your vantage point? So much easier to have an opinion there. So the fact that you do that heavy lifting for your clients is incredible and it shines through because you're right, they want to give you those reviews. So I really appreciate those insights, Kris. I'm excited to hear how you answer this last question. Just speaking of, I am going to put the onus on you on this one, Kris, and that is, what's your one best piece of advice or that one takeaway, knowing that listeners are tuning in at all different stages of their business. growth journey and personal growth journeys as well. And they're probably quite convinced in your approach of doing marketing and, and putting their message out there for the world to see, and really getting closer to those ideal customers and clients they want to work with. What's that one thing that you want to leave them with from today's episode?  Take the time to tell your own story, like put invest a little bit of time to tell a story in your Business, a story that invites your clients or your potential clients into a narrative with you. And I actually have a freebie that will walk you through this. It's called how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. And I ask you three strategic questions and you have a document that you can brain dump your ideas into and then hone it throughout the process. It doesn't take more than I would say 20 minutes. Tops to really do the work. And then that will be the foundation of the way you, you communicate about your business. So I just, I want you to put on the lens of really being the guide in your story and not the hero.  Yes, Kris, you're making my life easy today because natural segue. You've got to drop those links on us because listeners will be keen on getting their hands on that freebie. And I also want to interject that not only do you have incredible resources and a free guide for everybody on your website, but You also do a lot of podcasts, as you say, and in so many of those podcasts, you just, you show up so real. And it's something I appreciate as a podcast host that it doesn't matter to what topic we go into. You so effortlessly and with real authenticity and transparency are willing to go there. So listeners definitely check out Kris's website, Kris, drop those links on us. Where should listeners go from here? Yeah, there's one place to go. My website does all the heavy lifting for me. So go to red, R E D door D O O R stories, S T O R I E S red door stories. com. And there you can get my free, free guide. You can, uh, learn how to work with me. You can schedule a 40 minute money making messaging call with me as well. Yes, the listeners. You already know the drill. We are making it as easy as possible for you to find that link. Red door stories. com down below in the show notes, no matter where it is that you're tuning into today's episode. And then Kris also makes it as easy as possible for you. Once you hit that link, you're going to find a whole world of goodness. That's going to get you so excited to really Hey, Just redo the way that you show up in the world and really replace all those frustrating times. You sit in front of your computer saying, what do I write here? How do I create something that's compelling? That's captivating. That will convert. Definitely check out red door stories. com. Kris, you have been such a wealth of knowledge. You absolutely lived up to expectations and beyond here today. So on behalf of myself and all the listeners worldwide, thanks so much for coming on the show today.  Hey, it's Brian here and thanks for tuning into yet another episode of The Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur podcast. If you haven't checked us out online, there's so much good stuff there. Check out the show's website in all the show notes that we talked about in today's episode at The Entrepreneur Show.  And I just want to give a shout out to our amazing guests. There's a reason why we are ad free and have produced so many incredible episodes five days a week for you. And it's because our guests step up to the plate. These are not sponsored episodes. These are not infomercials. Our guests help us cover the costs. Of our productions. They so deeply believe in the power of getting their message out in front of you, awesome entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs that they contribute to help us make these productions possible. So thank you to not only today's guests, but all of our guests in general. And I just want to invite you. Check out our website because you can send us a voicemail there. We also have live chat. If you want to interact directly with me, go to the wantrepreneurshow. com initiate a live chat. It's for real me. And I'm excited because I'll see you as always every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday here on the entrepreneur to entrepreneur podcast. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/profitstoriesthanks ### Title: ProfitStoriesThanks ### Page ID: 6695369 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/profit-stories ### Title: Profit Stories ### Page ID: 6700708 ### Content: #### PRIVATE PODCAST >> GET INSTANT ACCESS ## The hard truth most service providers don't want to face... #### **Right now, your ideal clients are likely visiting your website...** #### **and quietly clicking away to your competitors.** #### **Captivate ideal clients in 7 seconds** #### (even if you hate selling) #### **Turn your site into your top salesperson** #### working 24/7 while you sleep #### **Command premium rates with a story** #### that eliminates price resistance **In this intimate, private podcast series,** I share all my secrets. You'll learn the system that's helped hundreds of service providers turn their websites from expensive digital brochures into **client-converting machines**. After 23 years of crafting stories for world-class clients (like Nike, Adidas, and Jeff Bezos!), I discovered something that changed everything: your story isn't just nice to have—it's your most powerful profit tool. **Your story matters. Let's make it unforgettable—and profitable.** *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/consistency-corner ### Title: The Secret to High Converting Copy with Ruthie Sterrett and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6723755 ### Content: ## The Secret to High Converting Copy with Kris Jones ## The Consistency Corner Podcast with Ruthie Sterrett & Kris Jones The Secret to High Converting Copy with Ruthie Sterrett and Kris Jones Can we talk about that moment when you open your laptop, stare at your website, and think "I know I need to fix this... but where do I even start?" Trust me, I've sat with hundreds of brilliant entrepreneurs who felt exactly the same way. You know what's funny? Almost every single one of them thought they were "bad at writing." (Spoiler alert: that wasn't the real problem at all!) I recently had the most incredible conversation with Ruthie Sterrett where I shared something that might just change everything about how you think about your website copy. You see, there's this phenomenon I call the "Bottle Effect" – and once you understand it, you'll never look at your website the same way again. ? Why you're too close to your own genius to write about it effectively (and the simple shift that changes everything)  ? The surprising reason even gorgeous websites aren't converting (hint: it's not about pretty design)  ⚡️ My exact process that helped one client transform their website from digital brochure to revenue generator in just one afternoon Here's what breaks my heart: watching talented business owners put off their website copy for months (sometimes years!) because it feels so overwhelming. That nagging task that keeps getting pushed to the bottom of your to-do list? I get it. I've been there. That's why I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. Because the truth is, writing compelling website copy isn't about being a great writer – it's about understanding how to tell your story in a way that makes your ideal clients feel seen, understood, and ready to take action. Ready to finally cross "fix website" off your to-do list? Ruthie Sterrett: \[00:00:00\] Mhm. Welcome to the Consistency Corner podcast, the summer season. This summer, we're actually taking a step back here at the Consistency Corner while we reevaluate how this podcast fits into our marketing ecosystem. If you're like, what the heck is a marketing ecosystem? Well, we've talked about that a lot here on the podcast. We talk about how social media alone is not a marketing strategy and how all the pieces and parts have to fit together. Into the marketing bundle, you know, you have effective places to attract, nurture, and convert your ideal audience. So behind the scenes, we're doing a little bit of refreshing of our brand. And because we wanted to stay consistent, of course, with the podcast over the summer, we'll be rerunning some of our favorite episodes from the past and dropping in some shows from other podcasters who I know you will love to learn from because we're also all about community and cheering each other on. \[00:01:00\] Here at the Consistency Corner, I encourage you to also take a look at your marketing strategy and see where you can take a step back this summer and reevaluate whether it's stepping away from social media without sacrificing your visibility. Of course. Or taking off the marketing hat altogether and outsourcing to a strategic partner like a fractional CMO, I want to encourage you to do what lights you up in your business. Do more serving your clients, do more leading your team, do more being the visionary and coming up with what's next for the evolution of your brand. Or just do more taking a breath. We started this business so that we could have some freedom, right? I want you to have that over the summer. And because consistent doesn't have to mean constant, I want you to reevaluate the intensity that you're showing up so that you can drive the results that you want, but also not burn yourself out. Be sure to come over and say hello to me on Instagram at the consistency corner. And let me know where you're reevaluating your marketing \[00:02:00\] this summer. You know, I'm cheering you on and can't wait to hear from you. Let's get to the episode. Hold on. One more thing really quick before we get into today's episode, I want to share with you my top CMO level strategy tips. This is what I have learned from over 20 years in sales and marketing and exactly the types of things that I talk about with my clients in our CMO strategy sessions every single month. CMO podcast. which is also linked in the show notes to sign up for our monthly newsletter with CMO level strategy that you can implement so that you can market your business without the overwhelm. All right. Welcome to another episode of the consistency corner podcast. I'm super excited to have Chris Jones here today to a number one nerd out with me on story brand because she's a story brand certified guide, but to talk about the signature collaborative process that \[00:03:00\] she uses when it comes to writing. Sales copy for your website. And we're going to get into sales pages and homepages and what sales copy really is. But she can create copy that sells in two and a half hours flat with her signature collaborative process, which is amazing. I mean, if you guys have ever sat down and tried to write copy, you realize like, It takes a long time and I was actually talking to a friend earlier today about time management. We were talking about small business owners and all the hats that they have to wear and all the things on our to do list and how often we put something on our to do list and we think it's going to take 15 minutes and it's really like a three hour project or you might even estimate that it's a three hour project and it's really a 10 hour project. So I'm really excited to get into how you do this in such a short amount of time and give people that time back while still getting results. So, Chris is a copywriter. And like I said, a certified story brand, um, designer. And she's worked with brands like Nike and \[00:04:00\] Adidas and is extremely passionate about helping women owned small business owners, coaches, and service providers get website copy. So they can actually multiply their revenue. And she has had some incredible transformations for her clients, including increasing revenue by 300 percent record breaking lead calls and clients booking and scaling from 30 K months to 300 K months. Which that sounds amazing. Um, and then charging six times more for the same service by creating that brand value. So Chris, thank you so, so much for being here today. I'm excited to have you on the show. Welcome to the consistency corner. You Ruthie. I am thrilled to be here. Yeah. And so we connected originally, I think, inside of Holly's mastermind. You spoke in Holly Haynes's mastermind, which I'm a part of, and you and I connected through your podcast agents, different people that we were on. So we're kind of in the same circle and I'm really excited to dive into this today. But before we get in, can you share a little bit more about your business journey and how you got to where you are today and kind of what you do for your clients today? \[00:05:00\]  Kris Jones: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I have been at this. A little over 20 years, which is just mind blowing to me, but it goes to show you that like, I love my work and I thankfully figured out like what I love to do early on in life. Um, but it was definitely a journey into becoming self employed. I spent many years like working in house at, at Nike and Adidas, and I worked. In some agencies as well. And I think that that was important for me to really, you know, learn the craft. Um, entrepreneurship has always been part of my soul. Um, so kind of make taking that leap to becoming self employed felt pretty effortless for me. It was also at a time in my life that I just didn't have a lot of overhead. I didn't have children. I just could \[00:06:00\] really. explore this without a lot of risk. Um, and that was back in the day when, you know, I, I, I would say that I've always been a visual storyteller. That's, that's kind of my first love. That's what I, how I played as a kid. And that's what I ended up doing. In my early twenties, a lot of branding work, a lot of design work. And that eventually led to me being self employed and doing more web design work, um, as time went on and the landscape of. The internet changed, um, it became really clear to me that, you know, the beautiful websites that I was creating weren't as effective as they had been. And it's just, this is back in the day when like, if you had a beautiful website, that's all you needed to really thrive as a business. And that changed. And the reality \[00:07:00\] was even my own website wasn't bringing in the clients that I needed on a consistent basis. I was. Pretty much relying solely on referrals. And so I had a client come to me. Her name was Elise and she had a publishing background and had a really great business idea and hired me to create a website for her. And she, she was comfortable with the copywriting process. So she was going to tackle that and then bring that to me. And then I was going to bring it to life with really beautiful design. We set a deadline for the kickoff of the project and she came to me like she called me I think it was the day before and she's like, I don't know what's going on. I'm I consider myself a great writer I cannot write this website copy like it. It feels impossible. I'm stuck. I keep spinning round and round and round and Nothing \[00:08:00\] feels Like it's good enough. And so we brainstormed a bunch of things like, okay, you could hire a copywriter. You could ask some of your old clients, you know, for their feedback. You can, you know, run it by your cousin who used to be in advertising and, um. She tried all the things, I mean, she hired multiple copywriters and she, none of it was working because ultimately, you know, what I learned from that is that you really can't outsource your own voice. And when you do, it usually just doesn't feel quite right. And then you end up kind of feeling cringy when you're sending somebody to your website because it doesn't feel really aligned and authentic to you. And so, thanks to Elise. I just went on a quest on a mission to never let this happen again. And I flew across the country for deep dive \[00:09:00\] workshops. I read books. I, I just, I ended up connecting with Donald Miller and got to study under him and further my learning and eventually became a certified certified storybrand guide. Um, I was one of the, one of the very first, it was before building a story brand. The book even came out and. After that, after I went through that journey, I of course started applying this approach of storytelling. Like I essentially felt like I could now create a beautiful visual story, but I could marry it with a really powerful written story. And that was that kind of secret one, two punch that was needed in order for major changes to happen for my clients. So shortly thereafter, like immediately when I started applying the things that I had learned, I was getting calls, like you mentioned, like, Oh my gosh, I'm \[00:10:00\] charging six times more for the exact same service. I was on the verge of burnout and now my business is thriving. And like this month we broke our record for how amount of lead calls book. It was just shocking how like relatively. It's simple, that combination of, of visual story and written story when you combine them, how powerful that is and how few people are actually really doing that on the internet. Too often people invest in design or they invest in copy, but they don't really invest in both. Um, And so the same thing, of course, I applied it to my own business and the same thing happened. I was getting booked out. The fun thing that was going on is that I'd get on sales calls and instead of selling, people would already be excited and ready to work with me. They just wanted to like, you know, get in the calendar. And so it just took a lot of time and energy. \[00:11:00\] Um, it. Gave me a lot of time and energy back because I didn't have to sell the website became kind of my top sales employee Which as a self employed person if you can kind of outsource the sales to somebody who will do it for free aka your website I'll take it. So that's That's kind of how things unfolded for me.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yeah. I love that journey of realizing like, this is something that people need, like there's people that can help them with copy. There's people that can help them with web design, but you're right. I, there's not a ton of people that do both and they have to work together. Yeah. Just like a book. Like, I think about like when the books you read to your kids, like the story and the pictures have to go together and your website is the same way.  Kris Jones: Yes. Yeah. And yeah, yeah. And when you're, when you're looking on the internet, like it's all too often, even people that are really familiar with \[00:12:00\] story brand and I'll do a website audit or do a review and, and. There's so often a disconnect between what's being said in the words and what's being said with the visuals. There's a total disconnect and somebody might not pick that up if they're viewing this site, but they'll feel it. They'll feel it on a, maybe on an unconscious level. And so, um, it's, it's incredibly important. Ruthie Sterrett: I'm curious from your background, having worked with Nike and Adidas and serving product based businesses. I know you and I chatted a little bit before we hit record that I'm similar. If I have a professional background with a product based business, but now serve a lot of service based businesses, how did you make that shift into that niche and why is it that serving female led businesses is so important to you? Stay with us. We'll be right back. Are you longing to step \[00:13:00\] away from social media, but don't want to sacrifice your visibility? Well, my friend, you need to know about the Instagram nine grid strategy. This is a set it and forget it content strategy where you turn your Instagram grid into a mini website so that as people discover you, they know exactly what they need to know to get to know you and learn whether or not you are able to help them. We turn those nine squares into a grid and a puzzle that all fits together so that the pieces and parts take your audience on a journey. Now creating a nine grid doesn't have to be difficult. And if you're interested in learning more about how we can support you or a deep dive on this content strategy, head over to the consistency corner. com slash nine dash grid for more details. And now let's get back to the show. Kris Jones: Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, for so many reasons, \[00:14:00\] um, for me making that shift was a really organic because I understand that type of entrepreneur because I am one. And so it, it just, it. Like deep, deep, deep in my soul, the freedom that I gain from being self employed and being able to call my own shots and make my own schedule. Um, I, it feels so good to me that I want that for anybody else who wants that for themselves and I want to help them get there.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yeah, I totally align with that. I know when I became an entrepreneur and I was like reluctant to call myself an entrepreneur for a long time or even a business owner, it was like, well, I just want to do something that helps other working moms, but I don't really know what that is. And so like as my journey went along, it was like, I want to help them have a schedule and freedom. That they can go to the field trip and work and do something \[00:15:00\] that they love and are passionate about because we should be able to do both. And it's hard to do both in the corporate world for  Kris Jones: sure. It's really hard, especially when you become a mom, it's really, really hard. And it's such a gift as a mom. If you can be a self employed because you've, you just got to have that flexibility.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yeah, although I will, my, my son thinks that I do nothing all day. He's definitely like, we just started second grade and he's definitely said, it's no fair that you get to just stay home all day. And I was like, well, I do work. And then last night it was, well, mommy, you tell me that I shouldn't have too much screen time and your work is just looking at the screen all day. I was like, I know you're a, you don't quite understand.  Kris Jones: You're like, I'm not really watching movies all day or playing video games. Ruthie Sterrett: I'm not playing Pokemon, like I'm thinking and creating and working and selling and doing all these things, but that's besides the point. Um, well, you know, it's funny, you were talking about your client, Elise, \[00:16:00\] and how she tried to write her own copy. And I think a lot of people are like, Oh yeah, like I can just write the copy. It's no big deal. And then they sit down to do it. It's really a bigger deal than they thought. Why do you think, or what are some common mistakes maybe that business owners make when they are trying to write their own copy?  Kris Jones: Well, I'll, I'll start by sharing, I'll, I'll start by letting everybody off the hook who tries to write their own copy. And there's a thing called that I call, I guess, the bottle effect. And essentially the bottle effect is. As business owners, we are really inside of a bottle and we're trying to read the label that can only be read from outside the bottle. So that's why it's so hard. It's because you don't have the perspective that you need to really write about what you do with fresh eyes and a fresh mind. And also what happens is the curse of knowledge. Which is really that you get so ingrained \[00:17:00\] and familiar with the work that you do that you forget what it's like to not know what you know. And so we end up using language and words and overwhelming our readers or whoever comes to visit our site, overwhelming them with too much information. And they have to work too hard to understand what we're saying. And so they leave our website. And it's really an unfortunate thing. I think that, um, it's an unfortunate thing. It's super common. And, um, but I think a lot of people struggle with it so much and they think that something is wrong with them or that they should be able to do it. And I just. I just want to say that it's really hard because it's your own business and you're just too close to it.  Ruthie Sterrett: And I think too, like I can see with clients a lot of times, like when we'll, we'll go over creative for social or whatever, and I'll show them something and they're like, Hmm, this isn't quite it. And I'm like, Hmm, you're not the customer. Like let's go \[00:18:00\] back to what your customer needs because you are the expert and your customer is not. That's why they're hiring you and I think so many people like we believe this lie that we have to come across as the expert. Right. But if it's so expert that they don't get it, they're not going to consume the content. Kris Jones: Right. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I think I, if, if I, you asked, you know, if there is a common mistake that happens, I think just genuine, generally struggling with your own copy is the most common mistake and forcing yourself to do it. Having that on the to do list and then just it never leaves the to do list because you, it moves to the bottom of the to do list every day. The other thing that happens is people think that cloud based builders, whether it be Squarespace or Wix or any of those, which I'm honestly a big \[00:19:00\] fan of, like, I think cloud builders are fantastic because it, they're, they're very intuitive. Um, but, uh, sites like that or builders like that, um, website builders like that, they are in the business of brochure websites, so the templates are there to be beautiful, but they're not there to be high converting. And so what a lot of people do is they're like, okay, I'm. I'm going to do this. I'm, you know, signing up for Squarespace and then they spoon feed you a template. That's really meant to be more of a brochure rather than a sales tool. And so you kind of fill in, they give you a paragraph here, a paragraph here, a headline here, a button here, and you kind of just do what they tell you thinking that they know what they're doing. They're in the business of being a website builder, right? But, Again, it's not that there's anything wrong with the builder. \[00:20:00\] It's just the templates that they provide and they, they want it to be easy for you. Um, but really your website should be so much more effective and powerful for you than just a, you know, kind of a bump on the bump on a log brochure website. Ruthie Sterrett: And I can imagine that for business owners who have maybe invested a lot of into their design, whether it's time or money or both, that it can be hard to hear like your website isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing. Yeah.  Kris Jones: Well, and you know, you can tell them that, but they know it. You know, already, because if your calendar isn't getting booked out with calls or your course isn't selling or whatever it is that you want the website to do for you, if that is not happening on autopilot, then you know, it's not working for you. And we all know, I think we all \[00:21:00\] fundamentally fundamentally know is. That when you have real estate online, it should be working for you. It should be effective. And I think it can be a real disappointment to, you know, build your own website in Wix and then a year goes by and you think back and you're like, not one person has actually come from the website. All the people that I'm working with are coming from referrals. And again, nothing wrong with referrals, but it's really hard to build a reliable business. On only referrals because you can't, you know, it changes month to month and you can't really count on it.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yeah, that's so true. And I hear a lot of business owners who will, you know, when we talk about social media that they'll say, like, well, I don't get any clients from social. I get them from referrals. Like, okay, but when somebody refers you and that client gets a referral from another person, Where are they going? They're going to your website and they're going to your social \[00:22:00\] media. Yes. So are those tools nurturing that relationship so that the referral actually  100%. They don't have to be a cold referral to be valid. It can be, you know, a lot of people have like just their website or their social is strictly for warm leads, but they're converting those warm leads over and over and over again. Yeah,  Ruthie Sterrett: yeah, for sure. So, you know, you said earlier that outsourcing to a copywriter can sometimes feel like a disconnect because they don't get your voice. They don't get some of the nuance. What is your collaborative process do to kind of combat that? And what does that two and a half hour process look like so that we get those results we're actually looking for?  Kris Jones: Yeah, well, I'll, I'll walk you through the process. So essentially, I think. Most business owners end up kind of in that pickle of, I want to outsource my copy \[00:23:00\] because it feels like torture to write it myself, but the person I'm going to hire to write my copy there, they charge five grand or 10 grand for one sales page. And I don't have the budget for it. And a lot of people come to me and say, I've already hired a copywriter and I spent so much time going back and forth with. Changes and corrections that it actually took me more time than it would have to write, than it would have to write it myself, than it would have to write it myself. Um, and so that just often doesn't feel right. Um, and then of course writing it yourself is just, just daunting. It's like the homework project that just never goes away. And so because I've been doing this for so long, I figured out a way to streamline the process. And I think that the, the reason I can always \[00:24:00\] promise it will be done in two and a half hours flat is because. It works like I've, I've proven it over and over, over again. And the reality is I know my clients so well, they they're spread too thin. They ha they're spinning multiple plates and they don't have the time to deal with the copy. And not only that, if they did have the time, they don't have the time to learn how to write. Really high converting strategic copy. So essentially the process begins with me extracting the gold from their brain. And that involves asking the right questions. And I like to say the metaphor for this I use is. We all have so much information in our brain our story is inside of us our high Converting compelling story is inside of us, \[00:25:00\] but we're we're too close to it And there's so many other things going on in our brain It's kind of like our if you imagine a garage full of like crap You know your garage is full stuffed full with with just A bunch of stuff, right? And so in order to clean out that garage, you have to empty everything out. And what I like to do is through my process, you empty everything out. And then I get to go through the piles of stuff and pick out the treasures that I know are the essential components of your story. So that is, that is step one is just extracting that story from inside of your brain. And then I, because I've pulled all that out of you, I can write your copy for you. So I can, I can get an essence of who you are, the nuances of your industry. It's all kind of. Done in \[00:26:00\] that phase one that I pull everything out. I have everything I need to write your high converting sales page or your high converting homepage. And so I do that for you. So you don't have to do it. I mean, I think so many courses and services out there end up, you know, showing you how to do it, but then you still have to do it yourself. And this. process is a done for you service. So would  Ruthie Sterrett: you, I'm curious, would you consider it a done for you or would you consider it a done with you? Kris Jones: Well, the writing part is done for you, so you don't have to do it, right? I extract that gold from your brain. Then I write it for you. And then the most important part of the process is step three, where we apply your voice and infuse the nuances of your industry. So that's when you and I, that this is the done with you part of it, where you and I get on a call and 90 minute call together. So we have plenty of time. I \[00:27:00\] walk you through the entire sales page and we. You get to understand the why and the strategy behind every word that's on the page. And then if there's anything that doesn't feel fully aligned, we tweak it, refine it until it just feels completely perfect. And the page is a long format page. So it's comprehensive in that when people land on the page, It will provide them all the information that they need in order to click on that call to action. They won't have to bounce around to multiple pages. I think it's much more intuitive for people to scroll down on whether they're on a phone or a computer, scroll down the page versus bouncing from page to page. Um, so we, we make it easy for them to gather the information they need to feel confident about booking that call with, with you for purchasing your course. So We do that together and then \[00:28:00\] you basically have, similar to like an architectural blueprint, a blueprint that would be created before you build a house, this is a blueprint for your website. So you've got all the words, you've got the font size, you've got the hierarchy, the flow, wireframe. And that's just like a blueprint and then you copy that over to your website. So it's just a simple copy and paste, copy and paste over to your website. My team can do that for you too, if you just don't want to deal with it. So we get that copy over to your website. And then I put on my design hat and when the page is ready to go live, I go through and review it and I review, I make sure that that visual story that's being told is aligned with the written story that we've crafted. And so we talk about photography, we talk about palette, we talk about \[00:29:00\] fonts, we talk about flow and hierarchy and how this mess, how to get this message. really absorbed in a quick amount of time because, you know, the, the reality is people don't really read websites anymore. They scan them. So we have to write it and design it in a way that can be, it can be digested as it's scanned.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yeah. That's interesting that you say that, that people don't really read websites anymore because I've heard people say like, well, then why do you write all this copy if people don't really read websites, but some people do. Kris Jones: Yeah, well, the thing is, people read websites, let me put it this way, they scan websites, so if you write it in a way that it can be digested as it's being scanned, it will get absorbed. Mm hmm. If you write long bodies of copy that require a lot of, uh, A brain energy to \[00:30:00\] digest, it won't get read. So the way around that is to use like shorter, shorter bits of copy, pair them with icons, bullet points are your best friend. So people are going to read it and digest it. It just has to be designed in the right way. And the fonts have to be just right in the flow. Um. Yeah. And then essentially after you've, you've made sure that the design is aligned with the written story. Then you just literally turn on that client getting faucet and that just keeps working month after month after month.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yes. Client getting faucet. We all want that. That's 100%. We all want that. I love that. Yeah. So if somebody is thinking about like, okay, maybe I am ready to invest. I'm curious, where do you start? Do you start with a sales page for a specific offer or do you like to start with a homepage or is it like, no, you got to do it all at \[00:31:00\] once? What do you recommend?  Kris Jones: It, I believe every self employed business owner needs one page on their website that sells for them, that just acts as their top sales employee. And during our initial call, we'll decide if you need it. Specifically for a sales page or if you need it for, for a homepage, but it be, it becomes always very clear to me, which one you need, depending on what your goals are and what's happening with your business. Um, so it just, it really depends.  And I think that's one of the things that like, I see people get stuck in the internet world of like, well, such and such person said, I need this. This is the one thing I need. And it's going to change my business. Like, well, it's not always one thing, or if it is one thing, your one thing is different from somebody else's one thing. So it's important to have that strategy conversation and \[00:32:00\] determine for your unique business, your bandwidth, your goals, your brand, what's the thing that is going to be the biggest needle mover and work on that first.  Kris Jones: Exactly. What is going to bring income into your world? And that becomes really clear during that first conversation. Ruthie Sterrett: Yeah, for sure. So before we wrap up, I do have a couple questions that I want to ask you to get to know you. This has been such an enlightening conversation and I'm sure all of our listeners are like, Oh my gosh, I want to go redo my whole website and I'm going to hire Chris to do it. But before we wrap up and they can find out where to connect with you and learn how to do that, I have a couple of questions that I want to ask that we always ask our listeners just to get to know them a little bit better. And we talk a lot about brand values around here and I would love to know what is one of your brand values and how did you land on that?  Kris Jones: Well, I think, I think it goes back to that freedom for sure. I think freedom is probably one of my biggest values, and that has just been \[00:33:00\] inside of me my whole life. So it's not really something that I landed on. I just know that the more freedom that I have, the better that I feel. And um, and that doesn't mean that like, I think freedom is really working on your own terms. It doesn't mean that I don't like work a lot some weeks and, but I like being able to be in control of my time and my schedule. And I think the other, the other value I would share is just less is more. I just, that also just, it feels good to me when, you know, I'm in an environment, whether it's a physical environment or an online environment, that's just curated and streamlined for me and thoughtfully, thoughtfully done. There's a letter, I want to say, One of the, one of the early presidents, I don't know if it was Lincoln or who it was, I have to, I have to Google that and find out, but he, he wrote this letter and he said, \[00:34:00\] I would have written you a shorter letter, but I didn't have time. And I, I love that phrase because it does take extra energy to streamline and simplify your messaging and your design, but it's so worth it because the person on the other end. Feels the difference between you and somebody else who hasn't taken the time to do that.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yeah. A curated collection is worth so much more than all the things, because then you're right. The person on the other end isn't expending the energy. And that's so interesting. You say that I remember from when I was in my corporate days and we were talking about website navigation and the idea of shop all. And I was like, nobody clicks shop all it's too much. It's overwhelming. Like maybe the like 1 percent super fan that shops your website all the time. But if you are a product based business, like curated collection,  Kris Jones: navigation. Totally. \[00:35:00\] Yeah. I mean, our brains are really wired to survive and thrive. So when we come up against something that's going to expend a lot of. Brain energy for us. We will bail 100 percent of the time it is. It's just too much energy, too much work. It's not going to be the quickest path for us to thrive.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yeah. And it's, it's interesting. I heard something on a podcast recently that was talking about that people are exposed to more information today in 24 hours than people were a hundred years ago in their entire lives.  Ruthie Sterrett: And so it's like our brains are just on, are being overloaded. And so, and, and also coming from the corporate space and working in even like physical stores, I remember I was talking about like, well, people don't read, they don't read the signs. Well, it's not because they don't want to. It's because their brains are just like full.  Kris Jones: Right. No, it's. It's so true. It's so true. Ruthie Sterrett: \[00:36:00\] Well, speaking of reading things and things that we do want to consume, I will have to ask one of my brand values is personal development. And so I always love to ask our guests, what is your favorite, either personal development book or podcast, or if you're like me and cannot pick a favorite, something that you've read or listened to recently that you really loved. Kris Jones: Well, I, I'm a big fan of the marketing made simple podcast because I think they do a great job of just reminding us what's essential. It can be really easy to chase shiny objects and get on Instagram and kind of everybody has their different solution to your point earlier, and it's easy to waste money and time with. So shiny objects, and I think the marketing made simple, just is a way to ground and remind yourself what are the essentials of an incredible, powerful business and keep, keep plugging away at that. Um, and then I \[00:37:00\] think of course the book. That I think is probably the most helpful as far as, um, business related is building a story brand by Donald Miller. Um, from a personal standpoint, like self improvement, um, Oh my gosh. I, I really love the life coach school podcast.  Kris Jones: and I also love Jody more. Like I think those guys just the thought work around not believing your own thoughts. And being intentional, how to kind of unravel, um, from being so close to your own thoughts. It's similar, I guess, to what we talked about, but I think those are the things that really have impacted my life.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yeah, I love that. The story brand, um, book I loved, but I loved marketing made simple the book. And that's always my go to recommendation of like that book, just, it was like a light bulb turned on when I read that the way that they put the \[00:38:00\] things that you could actually understand. And it's like, you know, like you said, the foundational things, and I even think about it from an athlete perspective, like. If you have the super fancy equipment or the expensive this or that, it doesn't matter if you don't also have the foundational pieces in place first. And with your business, those foundational things are sometimes boring. And so we want to gloss over them and get to the like trendy fun stuff. But if you don't have the foundational stuff in place, then building a sustainable business is going to be really challenging.  Kris Jones: And I think a lot of people can, um, spend a lot of energy trying to figure out what tool, whether it's like what web builder is a Kajabi is that, you know, which email platform and people can kind of think, Oh, the answer is in the tool that you choose and it's totally not. All of them are perfectly capable of doing the job that you need them to do. \[00:39:00\] I liken this to like, um, When people look at the Mona Lisa or a Van Gogh, they don't say what brand of canvas did he paint that on? It doesn't matter, you know, it's your masterpiece is out in the world on the worldwide web. It doesn't matter where it's built or what email client you're using as long as you're, you're using it. Ruthie Sterrett: Yes. Oh, that's so true. I love that. Well, uh, speaking of using those things, my last question is to ask something that you are really consistent with either in your business or in your personal life that you are really proud of. And I will remind all of our listeners as well as you, what I teach is that consistent doesn't have to mean constant. Kris Jones: I, the big thing for me is. Calendaring. So time blocking on my calendar, what it took me a while to get into the groove with it, but now, \[00:40:00\] um, on Sundays, I really try to take the time. If I don't do it on Sunday, I do it on Monday just to plan out the week and give myself some margin and breathing room in between items and just. You know, I color code things. So the whole calendaring thing really works for me. And so I keep doing it over and over. The other thing that I would like to share because I'm so excited about it is that I. I am on day eight of giving up sugar and flour, and I am feeling so great about it. Really? Mm hmm. Ruthie Sterrett: is inspiring and also sounds incredibly challenging, so good for you. It's  Kris Jones: not as hard as I thought it would be. I, my, I have a five and a half year old, and so, um, I feel like in hindsight I've been using food to kind of \[00:41:00\] comfort. Me through the, the challenging parts of parenting for five and a half years and I. I'm finally making this change and it feels like it just feels like a kind of a gift to myself to be doing it. And that's awesome. Yeah.  Ruthie Sterrett: I love that you use the word calendaring. I used to always say calendarize and my team was like, Ruthie, that's not a word. I'm like, yes, it is. We're going to calendarize it. We're going to put it on the calendar. I like that better,  Ruthie Sterrett: Yes. I love, I was always all about calendarize. So that's  Kris Jones: so funny. It sounds like a superpower of some sort. Yes.  Ruthie Sterrett: Yes. Well, Chris, thank you so much again for being here and sharing your wisdom and insights with our listeners. If they are interested in learning more and connecting with you, where do you hang out online and where can they find out more?  Kris Jones: Yeah, the best way to connect with me is just to go to my website reddoordesigns. com. That's R E D D O O R \[00:42:00\] D E S I G N S dot com. Reddoordesigns. com. You can find everything that I do there. Um, the great part about the website is that you can get my freebie, which is how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. And it's a really simple five minute tutorial video and a little bit of a worksheet that you can use again and again and again if you're writing your own copy. And then also my copy that sells in 2. 5 hours flat offer is there too. And so pretty much everything is there on Instagram. I'm at red door design with no S at the end. Awesome. We will link all  Ruthie Sterrett: of that in the show notes. And again, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me, Ruthie. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Consistency Corner podcast. Be sure to connect with me on Instagram at Consistency Corner for more marketing made easy \[00:43:00\] mindset tips and behind the scenes of working online. If today's podcast was helpful, I'd love it if you would leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts and share a screenshot and tag me in stories so I can cheer you on and learn more about how to support you in building a brand that truly sparkles. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/2b-bolder ### Title: Behind the Red Door with Mary Killelea and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6723779 ### Content: ## Behind the Red Door ## 2B Bolder Podcast with Mary Killelea & Kris Jones Behind the Red Door with Mary Killelea and Kris Jones Can I share something kind of vulnerable with you? When I was 8 years old, I started my first "business" selling perfume made from mushed-up flower petals. I even had rainbow business cards! (Let's just say my marketing strategy has... evolved since then ?) I recently sat down with Mary Killelea on the 2B Bolder Podcast to share how that creative little girl with big dreams eventually ended up designing for Nike – and then completely transformed how she thought about business storytelling. You see, somewhere between that first "perfume" sale and helping entrepreneurs tell stories that actually convert, I discovered something fascinating: the entrepreneurs who seem to "naturally" connect with their audience? They're not following the traditional marketing rulebook at all. ? The unexpected lesson about business storytelling I learned while living in Turkey (it changed everything!)  ? The lightbulb moment at Nike that made me completely rethink how we connect with clients  ⚡️ Why breaking "traditional" marketing rules might be exactly what your business needs right now Listen, I know how exhausting it feels when you're trying to show up "professionally" while watching your authentic voice get buried under all those "should dos" and "must haves." I lived that struggle for years. That's why I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. Because maybe, just like that 8-year-old with her flower petal perfume, the key to connecting with your dream clients isn't about following all the rules – it's about telling your story in a way that feels genuinely, authentically you. Ready to break free from the traditional marketing box? Mary Killelea: \[00:00:00\] Hi there. My name is Mary Kilolea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like. Thank you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation. Hi, thanks for tuning into the to be bolder podcast. Today's guest is a woman who has a successful career helping businesses convert visitors into paying clients. I'm so excited to have Chris Jones on the show. She's the founder of red door designs and the story brand guide. Chris has over 20 years of experience with clients like Nike under her belt and is extremely passionate about helping business owners and entrepreneurs create website copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue \[00:01:00\] and focus on what they do best. Chris believes creating copy that sells should be quick and easy and that your website can be strategically set up to convert new leads with ease. Her approach is based on authenticity, trust, and connection and storytelling methods that convert without being pushy. I love it. Chris, thank you so much for being here today. Kris Jones: Thank you for having me, Mary. I'm thrilled to be here.  Mary Killelea: Before we get into your business, can you tell me a little bit that led you down this path on, on, you know, how you decided, um, To start your own business versus going down another path.  Kris Jones: Yeah. Well, we could have probably a long conversation about this, but, um, I've always been an entrepreneur at heart. Uh, even at the age of eight, I had my mom. make me business cards. And the, the business I had back then was called Kristen's crafts with a K crafts with a K, which \[00:02:00\] is hilarious. And I had like rainbow balloons all over the front of the card. And I would give people my card and offer to customize their, I basically bought a bunch of acrylic goods. And then I would Do paint pens on them, customized for my client. And so anyway, it's just like in hindsight, it was just in my, in my bones. I was always like coming up with ways to kind of make money. And I mean, one of the things I was probably younger than eight, but I, I mushed up, like I picked a bunch of neighbors. Flowers, I mushed up the petals and then I sold it as perfume basically. And I'm sure it was, I remember it being like an ugly green color, but my poor neighbors, anyway, it's just, it's how I'm wired. And so, um, earlier in my career, I. I, \[00:03:00\] after college, I traveled abroad and I ended up in Turkey. I fell in love with Turkey and no Americans traveled to Turkey at that point in time. It was just really kind of, it felt like a foreign land. And I fell in love with Turkey and it was there that I. Recognize like, Oh, my gosh, I've only known about this one way that Americans think about you get on the hamster wheel. You start, you know, you buy a car, you buy a house and you kind of feed that money or that lifestyle. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I just hadn't it. Been aware that there was an alternate way. And in Turkey, where I was living, it was like a headquarters for paragliding. And so there were a lot of sporty sport lovers from like all over the globe who'd come visit there. And they'd, they'd be there for the summer and then they'd travel and, and. Out of there in the winter \[00:04:00\] and go all over the world. It just, it just opened my eyes to a different way of life. And what ended up happening was I came back to Portland and. I got into graphic design. So I went to school for graphic design and like minute one of my very first class, I was like, this is my purpose. I just, I loved visual storytelling. And I dove, I dove in deep and ended up, um, getting some jobs. I worked at a design firm, then I worked at an ad agency, then I worked at Nike. And then, you know, I, I kind of just. Got, got good at what got, got good at the craft, right. And got good experience under my belt. And then at that point, um, I decided to go out on my own. I had enough relationships by that point in time. And I was still young. \[00:05:00\] I mean, I, I started the company 21 years ago and. And so it was like, I didn't have overhead. I think my monthly rent in Northwest Portland was 543 a month. It was like, just, I mean, I, that time I thought that was a lot, but like, it was like, Can I save enough to get a computer? Can I pay the rent? And, um, it just, there wasn't, it wasn't like I was jumping off like a big cliff to do this. It just felt inherent in how I'm wired. And so, It just, I just plugged away at it. And there were, there were weeks and months where I would like go to my office and organize my fonts because I didn't have any client work. So I just kind of kept, you know, plugging away and trying not to freak out, um, in the, in the process. And then, um, yeah. And so \[00:06:00\] that, that kind of continued, the, the red door designs became a thing and I've never looked back. It's just, it keeps working year after year, but I have to tell you that, you know, there was a point in time as things evolved, I got kind of more and more into web design and. Back in that day, you could have a beautiful website and you probably can totally get what I'm saying. All you needed was a beautiful website and your business would thrive, right? And it's just, that's all you needed to get respect and to get trust and to get clients. And after a handful of years, like the landscape changed. Um, and I started to realize like, My website actually isn't working anymore and how can I \[00:07:00\] number one, I've got to get my website, you know, working and number two, my clients were kind of having the same issue where they needed a new website, but It, the, the beautiful part of the website wasn't enough. And so like one client in particular, I mean, this happened with, with several clients, but one client in particular, she was the face of the brand. And when you are the brand, it really needs to feel like your voice. And so she came to me, we, we dialed in the project start date. She was a writer, so she was going to write her copy. And then I was going to design the website and make it beautiful. Well, she was struggling writing her own copy. And that is just so common. It's so hard to write for yourself because, because we're so close to our own business and. And so she was having that same struggle that we all have. \[00:08:00\] And so she decided to hire a copywriter who did a great job, very professional copywriter, but it didn't feel good for her because you can't really outsource your own voice. And, and so she went through multiple copywriters and that. Project was such a big learning for me in so many ways. Number one, cause I was kind of struggling with the same thing on my own website. I was watching it happen for her as well. And at that point, I just knew I had to find a better solution for my clients. And so I went on a mission, which I would say was more like a quest to discover like the secret of combining visual storytelling with Powerful writing. And that's when I came across Donald Miller and his book, building a story brand, I don't know if you're familiar with that book, but it's. It's really, if you're thinking of \[00:09:00\] becoming, taking the leap to being self employed, it's a wonderful book. Mary Killelea: I'll include that in the show notes and I haven't read it and I'd love to get my hands on it. So,  Kris Jones: yeah. And if, I mean, we've, we've all got a lot on our plates. Um, the audio version is really great too. You can do it while you're washing the dishes. Anyway, I attended one of his workshops and I just, I just soaked it up because his approach was very much a less is more approach to storytelling. And my approach to visual story, storytelling was really aligned. So basically, I loved the workshop. I soaked it all in. I couldn't wait to get home and apply the framework to my own website. And as luck would have it, the next day, toward the end of the day, Donald Trump's requested a volunteer to review, have their website be reviewed. And \[00:10:00\] with a little bit of trepidation, I, I kind of raised my hand and, um, and as, as he pulled my side up on the big screen, he, he gave me some, you know, some great feedback, but. The thing that happened next was really what blew my mind, which was the workshop ended and I turned around and there was a line of people lined up to wanting me to apply the framework and do the same thing to their website. So at that point is when I really realized the power of storytelling, like both visual and verbal. It wasn't about like my great website. It was about what happens when you tell a powerful story visually and verbally together, what that does. So, Of course, like, I didn't stop there. I, I went to Nashville and Donald actually asked me to come down to Nashville and further my knowledge and become a story brand guide. \[00:11:00\] And I literally, from that day, I have. Applied the framework in some way, shape, or form to every project I've ever worked on. And it's just mind blowing what I've seen happen. I've I've watched clients like increase in 300 percent revenue. They started having consistent six figure months. They were able to charge six times more for the exact same service. And just quadrupling the amount of leads booked. So like all the things that you need and want as a self employed person. Um, so yeah, it just, that's kind of the story of how it all unfolded. And I just, I love the work because at its core, it's about creating a connection. It's about evoking resonance and. Really building trust and that is storytelling at its core.  Mary Killelea: I agree. And I think storytelling one evokes that \[00:12:00\] emotion, but the way that I've, you know, I've looked at some of your stuff and it is less is more and it's very effective. And with today's busyness that we are all, you know, bombarded by, if you can. Capture attention and like hook me right in. And, and then I like all the noise gets quiet around me and I'm going, okay, this person's talking to me, they can help me.  Kris Jones: Right. Right. I mean, that's powerful. It's it is really powerful. I mean, like an example of this would be like it, we've all got our phones dinging and emails coming in and kids needing us. And we just have a lot on our plate. I don't, it doesn't matter who you are. And. When we go to a movie and we go and sit down in that theater and we've got the popcorn on our lap and the movie begins, we don't think about our to do list. We don't think about our phones or anybody. We are, we're pulled into that movie for 90 minutes. I \[00:13:00\] mean, can you think of anything else that has the power to do that, to capture our attention in that way? And the reality is the. Story brand framework and the approach that I take is doing exactly that using that same kind of framework or formula on your website. Your website can do that same thing. Mary Killelea: I love it. Um, I'm curious. How did the red door design name come about?  Kris Jones: Well, red is my favorite color. So I knew immediately it had to be red, had to be in there somehow. And as I was kind of brainstorming and coming up with different ideas, I found that the red door culturally. Um, like historically represents hospitality and prosperity and those two things combined really felt like true to me and what I wanted the business to be \[00:14:00\] about. Mary Killelea: I love that. What advice do you have for someone who is interested in web design and storytelling, but doesn't know where to start? Because I don't know, there's just so many choices out there. Do they do traditional school? Do they do, you know, the self taught? Do they do the get, get really good at a type of platform, whether it's WordPress or Wix, you know, or coding? I mean, there's a lot of overwhelm, a lot of choices.  Kris Jones: Yeah, there is. I think I mean, what's really incredible about this day and age is the cloud based platforms. You really don't need to code anymore. So I would say multiple things that you just shared. I'd say number one, like pick a platform and get really good at it. You know, pick a one that that feels easy for you. Squarespace is a great cloud based platform. Um, Get really good at \[00:15:00\] that. Start doing websites for free. If you can, take classes at like a local community college, or, you know, get with other people who are learning the same thing. Like, it's great to learn some design principles, because, you know, you want to know what you're doing from a design standpoint. And I think the best, I mean, in hindsight, the very, very best thing I did was get an internship. Yeah. Who did you have your internship with a company called zap graphics. And that really helped me. Like I was going to school and having the internship at the same time. And I found that like, I was learning at such a rapid speed at the internship that I eventually, I never even finished school because the internship was like. Provided you need a master's. Yeah. So great. Yeah. And then pick your platform and don't dabble around \[00:16:00\] in a bunch of different, different platforms. It doesn't matter. Nobody's nobody asked Van Gogh. What kind of, what kind of canvas he painted on just it's a blank canvas. It doesn't matter. That's your platform. And And know it through and through in and out and that's what you do for your clients and it's it's really gets complicated when you start, you know, trying to dip your toe in multiple platforms.  Mary Killelea: Yeah, I agree with that. Um, how do you hone your skills on storytelling, or what do you, like, how do you, yeah, I guess how do you hone that. Or is everything a story around you and you're overwhelmed because you're like, Oh, I'm analyzing this story.  Kris Jones: Yeah. I mean, the best thing you can do is read the book, building a story brand. I think that would be a good start. That'll, that'll change the way you view the world. It'll change the way you interact with movies, books, because it's all \[00:17:00\] the same. Um, it'll, it'll probably ruin a lot of things for you, but in a good way. And, um, You can also go to a business made simple, which is the author of building a story brand. He has, he basically has courses for people who don't want to go back to school and, but really want to get good at. Um, their messaging, their business grow their business. So, um, business made simple. com is a great resource, affordable to, for, um, kind of practicing your messaging skills. And then again, like do it for friends, do it for free, you know, keep practicing.  Mary Killelea: How do you stay focused as a business owner? When I had my own business, I got shiny object syndrome where like I would go down this rabbit hole. I'd go down that rabbit hole because \[00:18:00\] everything was new and intriguing and I wanted to learn it and I wanted to share it, but then it gets overwhelmed.  Kris Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Well, give me like, tell me, I'm just curious out of my own curiosity. Like, give me an example of that.  Mary Killelea: Oh gosh. Um, Well, like, did I want to become an expert on Facebook ads, or did I want to, um, learn, you know, you know, you like, like you said earlier, I think there's a need to become an expert. And so back when I had my, my own company. I'm glad I diversified. I had SEO, I had social media, and I had web design. Had I not, I probably would have gone under during the difficult time. But at the same time, I wasn't There's so much that was evolving and coming at us. And now there's so much new software and it's just hard to stay \[00:19:00\] focused as a business owner. So how do you stay focused from setting goals or, or not getting distracted?  Kris Jones: Well, um, I think the main, the main way to figure out what you want to do is just do what you love to do the most. Um, and do the thing that you are watching, your results, your clients get results from, and that will kind of organically start to happen cause they'll be referring. You to their friends. And so you just want to, but I, I totally have done what you're talking about. Like I was doing social media too, and, and this and that, and, um, when somebody came to me the other day for Facebook ads and. I'm like, no, like, and that is not, it will serve you better to go to someone who only does Facebook ads. So I think you have to kind of play around, \[00:20:00\] do a bunch of things at first and then, and then double down on the one thing that you love the most and kind of put your stake in the ground around that and just be the best at that.  Mary Killelea: Yeah. I love that advice. And I think it's, it's hard to say no to potential money. When you are a business owner, but I think it's the right thing to do, um, for the reasons that you mentioned, um, what's the hardest part about your job? Mm.  Kris Jones: I mean, I love my work so much. Like I just, I just, it brings me so such joy every day and it is really hard. I think that, um, the hardest part about my job is probably as you know, a business owner. Staying focused on the things that bring in revenue and not getting distracted by, you know, there's so many \[00:21:00\] tasks, there's so many to do's. And I always feel like my list is way longer than what's humanly possible. And I have to practice like, okay, pick the three things. What are the three most important things that are actually going to lead to more money? And that's how you're, that's how. You keep growing.  Mary Killelea: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so speaking of that, um, kind of goes in this life, life work balance. How have you been able to establish that and find time for personal family and and self care? Yeah,  Kris Jones: the ultimate question. Um, I had a son five years ago, yeah, His name's Jude. He's almost, he'll be in kindergarten next year. And he has been an incredible gift to me for that reason alone. Um, number one, I love him so much. And I, you know, \[00:22:00\] he's my top priority, but also because the demands of children are like, I need to pick him up at a certain time. And I can't, I can't like halfway do work and halfway be with him. Like, Especially at that age, sometimes I wish I could, but, um, so it's like full on work and then it's full on Jude and at five I go pick him up and we have a whole evening together. And, you know, by the time I put them to bed, there, there's no, there are no brain cells left in my, my brain. So I think. That's really how I do it is like I work prior to Jude. I will, I overworked. I, I had a tendency to like give my time away and, and work kind of with very loose boundaries and. Jude has really taught me how to create \[00:23:00\] clear boundaries and the value of my time because it's limited. And I don't think I really fully felt that until I had a child. Mary Killelea: Um, how did your experience, um, working at an agency and Nike help help you to be the business owner that you are today?  Kris Jones: Wow. Well, When I worked at Nike, I've grown up in Portland, so we're, you know, Nike, Schmeike, we've all heard about Nike all our lives, or as long as you're here, you hear about it a lot. I knew it was a big company, but I didn't realize like what a big deal Nike was until I started working there. And so I got to work in their brand design. Department. And when I look around at the designers that I was working with, they'd all, they were all from different countries. They had like cherry picked all the best designers from all over \[00:24:00\] the world. And they all just jumped at the chance to come move and work, work at Nike. And So for me, it was being around people of that caliber that up my game, kind of like when you play tennis with somebody better than you, you get better. And so I got to be around these incredibly talented people and I just gleaned, I gleaned information from them and I got to build my confidence and work on projects that were kind of high profile. And, um, so That would be probably the biggest gift that Nike gave me and Adidas too. Um, and then also on the flip side of that, I knew that driving out to Nike every day and working in a cubicle was little by little kind of sucking the life out of me. So \[00:25:00\] as much as I am deeply grateful for that experience, I, it also nudged me in the direction to do my own thing. Mary Killelea: as a business owner, you not only have to, you know, do business development, but you, there's operations and then there's sales and, and, and the work and everything. How do you think about your business in setting up processes and automations and, and efficiencies?  Kris Jones: Well, um, I, I love automations and I love efficiency, but I also, um, I think fundamentally kind of an artist at heart. And so that's never been a strong suit. I follow my ideas and my inspiration and I always take care of my clients and I, but I love to create. And so it wasn't until I hired, I actually hired an online business manager, \[00:26:00\] um, About a year ago, and her gift is exactly what you're talking about. So she figures that out. And then she just says, okay, show up for this meeting. And This is due tomorrow and so I just do what she tells me to do. Mary Killelea: That's great. I love it because you knew, you knew what your strength was and what you wanted, you know, to focus less on, but you knew it was important. So you felt you filled the void there. Um, 20 year old self?  Kris Jones: I love that question. Um, I would say don't give away your time. Uh, know your worth. Um, don't. Work so hard. I think, you know, \[00:27:00\] fundamentally, like I come from a family of hard workers and I still work really hard, but it doesn't feel like work because I love it. Um, I still think that there's Definitely room for more balance in that regard. Um, yeah, I think I would just, you know, say, keep going like you follow that golden thread, follow that next little thing that, that you're drawn to. And in hindsight, you know, I've, I look back and I think, Oh, This is happening, but it couldn't have happened a year ago because I hadn't, you know, had, I wasn't prepared for that then, but now I am so things tend to just, I really believe in divine timing.  Mary Killelea: Um, so you mentioned that you traveled to Turkey, and the gift of, and I'll just say what you said the gift was, you know, kind of \[00:28:00\] being. Open and exposed to diverse experiences that maybe you didn't have. How does that help you as a storyteller? Kris Jones: Well, I think that, you know, travel of any kind broadens our perspective. And I think especially when we can venture out to different cultures and really put ourselves. It's out of our comfort zone. It allows us to kind of get into the flow of life in a new way. Like we're out of our routine. It's uncomfortable and usually tired or whatever, jet lagged. But um, I think there's like beauty and kind of shaking it up in that way. And I think that, um, how has that, how did that experience? Enhance my storytelling. You know, I think that That \[00:29:00\] story has been with me for so many years and it is kind of atypical. And I think just even sharing that story, um, about that time in Turkey, when I, you know, I lived right off the beach in a hostel for a dollar a night and worked at a Turkish deli, like there's just opportunity, there's opportunity for, for storytelling in a way where you can tell that people are like. What? Like tell me more when people are like leaning in and like, that's wild. Like, okay. And then what? So I think it's helped me practice like, and, and yeah, just practice kind of how to tell a good story. What does to be bolder mean to you to be bolder, to be unapologetic about your truth.  Mary Killelea: Fantastic. Well, it's been a pleasure to meet \[00:30:00\] you and I appreciate you sharing your story. Kris Jones: Oh, it was been such a joy to talk with you today, Mary. Thank you for having me. Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guest. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bboulder. com. That's the number two, little b, boulder. com. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/realtor-hacks-tips-and-tricks ### Title: Certified StoryBrand Guide with Halley McCrory, Casey Styers & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6723797 ### Content: ## Certified StoryBrand Guide ## Realtor Hacks, Tips and Tricks with Halle McCrory, Casey Styers and Kris Jones Certified StoryBrand Guide with Halley McCrory, Casey Styers & Kris Jones Can we talk about something that's been bugging me lately? I keep seeing talented real estate agents pouring their hearts (and marketing budgets) into content that just... disappears into the void. And after years of helping businesses tell better stories, I know exactly why this happens. I recently sat down with the amazing Halle McCrory to unpack a counterintuitive truth that's transforming how successful agents connect with clients. Here's the thing – if you're making yourself the hero of your marketing (you know, showcasing all your awards and achievements), you might actually be pushing dream clients away. **Here's what you'll discover and why it matters to you:** ? Why you're too close to your own expertise to see what makes you different (I call this the "Bottle Effect")  ? The simple shift that turns scrollers into signed clients (without feeling salesy)  ⚡️ How to make both buyers and sellers feel like the hero of their story (using one core message) Listen, I get it. Running a real estate business is demanding enough without the constant pressure to create fresh marketing content. That nagging feeling when another perfect-fit client signs with someone else? I've helped hundreds of agents move past that exact frustration. That's why I'm excited to share this conversation with Halle. Because the truth is, the most successful agents aren't the ones with the fanciest marketing – they're the ones who know how to make their clients feel like the hero of the story. \[00:00:00\] All right. And we are live. Uh, hi everyone. Welcome again to another, uh, episode of Realtor Hacks, Tips and Tricks. I am one of your hosts, Holly McCrory, Realtor and Team Lead for Empower Real Estate Group, uh, Expansion Team with eXp Realty, uh, known for selling a hundred homes a year in a small town of about a hundred thousand, um, host for American Dream TV and coach for Tar Keel Mooses. Uh, sales team, and I've got my, this way, lovely co host on Casey Spires, downtown guru, uh, realtor and team lead in Raleigh, North Carolina. Um, but she really works the whole state. Uh, she's. Excellent. Especially on the coast as well. Um, and she's also an American dream TV host, um, podcasts coming on that. And, um, we've also, yeah. And you're also doing a lot with, uh, Tariq's team as well. We're, we're both \[00:01:00\] in Tariq's, um, downline. So very exciting. Yes. So yeah, we've got a great episode today coming for you. We've got on Chris Jones of red door designs. She is a certified story brand guide. So if you don't know what that is, uh, you need to go read building a story brand by Donner, Donald Miller. And, um, she's certified in this, this whole tactic of how to like better simplify your message and get more clarity across to your client to get more sales. I guess that's like my little spiel on it. Um, welcome Chris. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm really thrilled to be here. I know we are thrilled too. Okay. So I want to start, I always start off like, tell us a little bit about your background. Um, where like, I know you have a little real estate influence in your family and you've worked with real estate agents as clients. Uh, give us a little bit on a, you know, background about you. \[00:02:00\] Well, I've been in the industry, not in the real estate industry, but in the marketing industry for 20 years and started out as a designer. And. Was really good at building beautiful websites for my clients, but as the internet evolved, um, those websites started to not be as effective as they had been. And what I realized is that my clients were. Having a hard time telling their own story. And so I went out and I made it my mission to crack the code on not only how to tell a beautiful visual story, but also a written one too. And so I traveled around, I went to workshops, I read books. I eventually got married, got married, got mentored. Donald Miller. He has already told him so, um, \[00:03:00\] and it was really a game changer for my business and my clients. And once I would implement the framework, magical things started to happen. Um, it, it, you mentioned earlier that it's a tool for clarity and. It's a way to simplify your message, but it's also a way to really motivate people to take action. That's what we really want to do is we want to, we want to create a connection with our ideal people and that type of connection and basically tap into the things that they care about and the things that motivate them. So they're the ones that take action and get excited about working with us. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, even just like doing research, like looking at, so we have, I'll put up Chris's um, website down here if you go there. I \[00:04:00\] mean, you are a perfect example of looking at this. Like you, you look at your website and I know exactly what you're offering. I know exactly what called it, like what I need to do to, to get the process started. I know all your pricing and everything. Like it's very, yeah, very clear. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And there, and there's, you know, simple, I'm a big believer in less is more. And, and I think that that's really important. Often websites get overloaded with information and they, they, you know, I think the mistake that happens the most often is on our own website, or if you're a realtor and you have just a page within your parent company. You kind of are like, what am I going to write here? Um, I guess I should write about myself and that makes perfect sense, but it isn't the best way to create that connection. So what happens when we write \[00:05:00\] too much about ourselves on our website is we make ourselves the hero of our own story. And we, we essentially kick the viewer out of us, out of a story, um, rather than inviting them into a narrative with us. Where they're the hero and as the realtor, we are the guide, we are the Yoda to Luke Skywalker. We're the Mr. Miyagi. Yes, I love Karate Kid. That was one of my biggest, I guess, like, takeaways from the book, and I'm sure it's everybody's, is that, because, well, I guess in real estate, we're taught, it's so much, So much of what we put out is, it, it has to be like self promotion so we can show some authority. But it's so true where we end up making ourselves the hero and I'm sure everybody is, I'm sure it's just like human nature to do that. But in reality, it should be your client as the \[00:06:00\] hero and you're the one helping them like that. I was like, how have I not thought about it like that? I mean, well, it's, it's tricky. It's really tricky because it's really nuanced and it's really subtle. And you might, you might notice like some of your mentors online, you're like, they're talking all about themselves. So if they're talking about themselves and they're making 10 million a year, I'm going to do what they do. But the nuance is that they're talking about themselves as it relates to you. And they're not just talking about themselves. So they're. They're telling a story, but it's so subtle that you don't even realize that they are. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I feel like that'll come with some practice, but as like, as people kind of work through the steps to take to like build their story brand. That helps it become easier to, I don't know, does that make sense? Yeah. You know what it is? It doesn't, \[00:07:00\] it doesn't get easier. I hate to say it. This is the hard truth. We are so close to our own selves. And when we are the brand, when I am the business and you are the business, I liken this to like, I call it the bottle effect. You are inside of the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read on the outside. And that is why it is so hard to write your own copy for your own business because you just, you can't get that perspective no matter how hard you try. It's like, Trying to describe your own eyebrows without a mirror. Um, so that happens a lot. And then the other thing that happens a lot is the curse of knowledge. So we've been, you know, in the industry for a long time and there's all kinds of industry lingo that we use, especially in real estate, this happens a lot. And then. Essentially, we forget what it's \[00:08:00\] like to not know what we know. And when that happens, that's called the curse of knowledge. And so often we'll like inundate the viewer of our website or our marketing materials with terminology that, that they don't know. And then they kind of feel dumb. And then again, no connections made there because of that. So it is hard to write an intimidating process too. So, yeah, and you know, when, when you go into business for yourself, you know, when you're a realtor and you want to sell homes because you love that part of the process, you love the people, you like the hunt, you like to close the deal. And when you, when you signed up to be self employed, you didn't sign up to become a marketer or become a writer. And that's like that just inevitable. Thing on the to do list that keeps moving to the end of the to do list, month after month, after month, like send out the newsletter, \[00:09:00\] update my, my profile page or update my website. And it's just, it's, it's just so, um, almost like torture. It's like, nobody wants to do it. It's not fun. And when you try and do it, you sit there and look at a blank screen or social media is the same thing. You, it's just hard to know what to say. Um, So I want to let everybody off the hook around that. It's not you. It's hard for everybody because Yes, so I guess, um, you know, what are the biggest challenges you're seeing when you work with a real estate agent specifically for, you know, building their story brand? Um, I guess when my team talked about it, it was I guess, well, you know, I'll let you go into the question and then I have like some of what our team kind of ran into because I \[00:10:00\] think what we ran into was maybe a little bit more specific to our area. And that, that could, okay. So I'll let you, yeah, I'll let you go. Yeah. I'd love to hear that. Um, just to give everybody a very quick overview. This is even a more simplified version of StoryBrand than the book, the book shares, but essentially every story, every movie, every book you've ever read begins with a hero that has the problem. They don't know how to solve. And that hero is your client. And eventually, about 20 minutes into every movie, another character gets introduced. That would be like a Mr. Miyagi. He comes into the scene, and he has a solution. He knows how to overcome the problem. And so, as Realtors, You are the guide. You are the Mr Miyagi and your job is to help the hero win the day to help them \[00:11:00\] achieve success and help them avoid failure. So that's the fundamentals of the framework. And even if you just Started thinking about your marketing in those terms. Like, okay, what problem does my hero have? And if you started all your communication with the A problem that your heroes have, like I would recommend brain dumping like 10 problems that they struggle with. Um, and then begin all your communication with that GBT even. Yeah, use chat QBT and, and that'll help you brainstorm and start, start your communication with that. That helps, that helps, well, so many things happen when you do that. Um, they feel seen, they feel heard, they feel like you care about them more than you care about writing about yourself. And you begin to establish a resonance with them, you pull them into this story, you basically hook them into the story and our brains just \[00:12:00\] love stories so much when they begin with a problem they can't help your viewer or your ideal client can't help but engage when you begin a story that way. So that is kind of the fundamentals of storytelling. And I would say that. The, the clients that I've worked with in the real estate industry, I think their biggest challenge is how to stand out in a crowded market. It's really hard to stand out and it's so relationship based, right? And so how do you show up online in a way that feels really authentic to you and that allows people to really get your essence and storytelling is the way to do it. So if you're. You know, wanting to stand out and differentiating basically, it's hard to differentiate that this is like the best way to do that. The \[00:13:00\] other challenge that, um, a lot of realtors have is they have kind of two different audiences. So they're like, which audience do I communicate with on my page? The buyers have a different problem than the sellers have. And so that's another challenge, but always we, we work through it with the framework. Right. Yeah. So you just kind of have like multiple frameworks then for whatever. Actually, you know, fundamentally. Yeah. Um, you, you can, like, I have clients, real realtor clients that come to me. And they've got one page for their buyers and one page for your sellers. But then how do you know where to point people? A lot of people, you know, it gets a little bit confusing. That's not a bad way to do it. But I'm a big fan of finding that golden thread, that through line, \[00:14:00\] that what are the commonalities that both the buyer and the seller want? What is motivating to them? They wanna maximize their profits. They wanna make a smart financial decisions. They want to, they want to get the, the deal closed, um, efficiently. They wanna get what they want. Um, all kinds of things that kind of overlap those two audiences. Okay, that, that, um, and the commonalities. Okay. I'm just taking notes as well. I would say, um, for my team, uh, being in a town of only about a hundred thousand, um, that's where a majority of my team is. Uh, it's, it's almost a little hard to really niche here. Um, it's better to kind of keep your doors open. So like for, for me, I. I'm primarily residential, \[00:15:00\] but I get to do a little commercial. I've just sold a ranch. Like it's, um, it's small enough where you can kind of dabble in, in different stuff and it just, you know, just for what, what opportunities you're able to pick up, um, and then in the book, I'm in, this is maybe us just getting like too specific with it, like information overload. Um, you know, in the book, it was more examples of like. Oh, like we're a real estate team that helps, uh, the senior market. Like it kind of gets into more of the niche. And so we were like, are we getting, do we keep it broad? Do we need to kind of niche with this? Like, that's kind of the issue that we were running into. No, you don't have to niche. If you want an issue, but you definitely don't have to. Yeah. Okay. Um, I guess, uh, so like for just general, like \[00:16:00\] framework for a real estate agent, what's like, Oh, sorry. What, what's kind of like, where does that go? A framework for a real estate agent? Yeah, like, um, so I'm, I'm a real estate agent that helps, or like, kind of like the, the verbiage behind it. Yeah. I mean, it kind of depends on who you are, but you want to start, I mean, my question for you is, do most of the realtors in your audience, do they have their own website or is it more like they have their own page within a parent company? Page within a parent company. Okay, got it. Okay. So that's where they need to start is to doing their own website? No, you don't have to do your own website. I mean, a lot of people want to have their website outside of that and you certainly can. It does give you a lot more control over promotion \[00:17:00\] and SEO and getting found. But, You are not, um, you can still be incredibly effective with just honing in on your page and really, again, going back to that problem that your clients struggle with, like, what are the common, common problems that they have and then what you really want to do is position your service as a solution to the problem that you've introduced. Okay. So you introduce an agitated problem and you let them kind of marinate. You remind them of a problem that they already know they have, right? And you make them very aware of that. And then you. Introduce your service as the solution to that problem. And then you, you basically paint a picture of a better, brighter future for them. So it's three different steps. And I have a five minute video that will walk you through this with a \[00:18:00\] worksheet. So I would highly. Completely free. Um, but going through the process of doing this, like brain dumping, the problems that they have, and then brain dumping the way that you solve this problem and then brain dumping all the benefits that they're going to receive after this problem is solved, like painted picture of a better future, not paint a picture of benefit of working with you, but about their life, their life. After they're in their dream home or after they've sold their home and been able to up level. Um, so those are the ways that you need to tell your story on your page. And the same is true. The same is true. If you had your own website, do you have, you definitely can add additional sections on a website that you can't on a webpage, but if you do that, the, the, the \[00:19:00\] essence that the The essence of who you are and how you do your work will come through. And most importantly, it will show them that you care about them more than you care about yourself. You care about solving their problem and that you want to get them to that end result of success. Okay. So that, like my way of thinking about it was completely even wrong. Like I was like, how do we, what it was more about, my question was more like we, um, and you're saying, you know, Find the problems that your customers have and work it backwards from there. Yeah, we'll work, work it forward from there. Find, find, find the problem that your customers have, then introduce your service as the solution to that, and then paint a picture of a brighter future for them. That is story in and of itself. Born Identity, Karate Kid. Doesn't matter. Re order. Yeah. \[00:20:00\] Yeah. Um, Oh, you want to ask a question, Casey? No, I was just thinking all of the above. Kind of like the downtown guru, how I or Rocky's mom. Love it. So how, like, I kind of think of this too, as like when people Like, I, I feel like, uh, social media, like your bio is kind of becoming like the new website, almost. Um, and obviously you, you can make like social media posts about this, of course, like videos, carousels, whatever it might be. But like, okay, thinking about like Instagram specifically, um, there's only so many characters in the bio. Like, is there a way you can Position the story brand in such a short little space, like as simple as your Instagram bio. I highly recommend it. Okay. You know, most people's bios are all about them. The best thing you can do is really \[00:21:00\] like, I hate to be redundant, but it really is that simple. And I want you to think of it like an accordion. So. Um, the, the shortest story ever told is a hero has a problem. A guide introduces their solution to their problem, and then they paint a picture of success. So in its shortest form, it's an Instagram bio. It is like two sentences. But it's a complete story. And then if you want to, like in the accordion, accordion, if you want to expand it out in a post or in an article or on your website, you can delve into the problem a little bit deeper and then delve into your solution a little bit deeper and then delve into the success a little bit deeper. But it's, it really goes like this, depending on. Um, you know, what you're writing for it for podcasts, interviews, or if \[00:22:00\] you're going to appear on a different podcast, um, you can do the same thing with your bio. Yeah. Yeah. So can you, like, can you give us an example of like a real estate agents, but like just general, I mean, I know obviously we want people to pay to work with you, but just kind of in an example. Um, okay. So a problem might be like. Most buyers and sellers miss life changing deals because they're swamped with uncertainty. Right. So that is like a problem that a lot of buyers and sellers have. They have a lot of questions. They don't take action because they don't want to, there's a lot at stake, right? It's like the future of. Of their wealth. So they kind of get frozen and then they end up missing opportunities because of that. And then the solution to that might be something like, the solution needs to be so simple. And this is \[00:23:00\] where I, again, like a lot of mistakes are made because people get excited about how they solve their problem, but what we want to do here is keep it very, very short and concise. So it would be like. I'm a real estate agent who simplifies the entire buying and selling process, or I'm a realtor who focuses on building wealth through smart real estate decisions. That's your solution. And then the success would be so you can make smarter decisions, get what you want and maximize profits. Okay. Well, that is. That is a very short accordion closed accordion story, but that is enough to hook people and have pull them in and show them that you care and that you know how to solve their problem. That's all they really care about. \[00:24:00\] Yeah, that that's honestly, yes. And I feel like real estate agents have a hard time with that as is like, even just, I was talking about. Like, uh, like hiring a showing agent, for example, instead of having like a, you know, like a 50, 50 buyers agent or something. Um, me and another, one of my friends were talking about having a showing agent and it's like, I'm like, Oh, but I don't want to, like, I feel like they want to work with me. Like they picked me specifically. And my mentor friend was like, no, they don't. They just care about getting the house. Like, yes, they picked you. Yes. But like if you have another person that works with you, they're going to be okay with that. They just want to see the Tim house. They want to be taken care of. They want to be taken care of. And part of your brand is making sure everyone's taken care of. And yeah. It's, it's a great way to scale, uh, to bring more people in to help support you. But people, \[00:25:00\] you're right, they don't care. They, they want to get the house that they want and you or your team can help them do that. Yes. Like I was making myself the hero in my own little story without even realizing it. It's so, it's so common. I know it makes me feel self centered though. I'm like, damn it better than everybody else is like that too. And I actually don't even think you're making yourself the hero. You're just having a thought that most service providers have, which is it's the it's relationship based. So it's gotta be relationship between me and them. Um, but really it's relationship with your brand. And so there can be many people within your brand that they can work with. Um, so how like, okay. So we talked about like something short, like an Instagram bio then on the flip side, so I've got like buyer and \[00:26:00\] seller guides that I like a little freebie for people, um, you know, to kind of see what it would be like to work with us or, you know, what we. You know, just style stuff about us. Um, and there, I guess mine are kind of lengthy. I'm like, how do I apply something like the story brand? I mean, I know I can put like, like, I know I can put stuff in there, but if my buyer and seller guides are longer, like, I guess, let me just pull up, for example, how many pages they are. I kind of go through like the process. It's almost like a little book. Like, do I, uh, well, I guess my listing one is 23 pages. My buying one is 53 pages. You know, am I making the message too clear or too unclear by having all that information in there? Or do I, is this like something I, I give, \[00:27:00\] like, do I do a different kind of freebie and do that stuff? Like if they ask for it down the line, I think that the, the era of downloadable PDFs is kind of. At its end, I think it's pretty saturated. Um, and the way people like to digest information these days is through video. So, um, like for the realtor that I most recently worked with, I love that you have a guide for both the buyer and the seller because As a guide, what you're going to be telling them, which is two different things. You can't, you can't merge that in, in a guide. Um, so I think you're right on track with that. Um, but I would recommend just a five minute video at the very most, like people do not have the attention span these days for a 53 page PDF. \[00:28:00\] Um, they do have the attention span for. For a five minute video and you could, it could be fundamentally the same thing. Um, and you could even, you could even copy and paste the bulk of that information into chat, GBT, GPT, and, um, say convert this to a five minute video. The other thing I love about that is that people are going to get a sense of how you talk, how you, how you look, your inflection there. It's going to be easier for them to like, start this relationship out. Yeah. Knowing who you are and you're as a guide, you know, as somebody who's providing a guide, you're really being generous and you're, you really genuinely wanting to help them, but you're also showing them that you're a master at this and you know how to, you know what you're talking about. So you don't need to, \[00:29:00\] you don't need to do anything longer than a few minute video to get that across. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it does not need to be a high production value. Just you talking to, you could record it on zoom or whatever it does. People don't really care about, you know, high quality video quality. They just need to be able to hear you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And there's been like your newsletters, like links and loads and things like that. I think it's great. So should it run every week or should it just be when you first come out with it? Um, for your guide? Like my new video? Every week, every month, my monthly newsletter. Should I keep that link there or do you think it should just be like a one and done? Oh, I think you should keep it in there. Yeah, because people are people are going to be more receptive to it at different times, depending on what's going on in their life. So you might put it in the \[00:30:00\] footer, like, as you sign off, everybody reads a PS, a lot of people don't read the actual newsletter, but they they pop down to the PS. So one tip is to always have a PS in there and you'll probably start noticing yourself that you do it too. Like you're like, I don't have time to read the newsletter, but I'll go down to the PS in the PSA, by the way, if you haven't, you know, watched yet, here are my five tips for getting the, finding the perfect home. Even in, you know, even with, you know, high interest rates or, you know, whatever. Um, and I'm like, yes, I'm going in my email signature. I need to email signature somehow. Yes. And if you can email your people once a month is great. Even more frequently is even better. Couple times a month. And it doesn't \[00:31:00\] have to be anything. Lengthier profound. It could just be like, Hey, we just closed this deal. This couple was ready to retire and wanted to change their life. And here's what they were struggling with. Here's how I solved the problem. And here's all the benefits that they're experiencing. You know, if you have interest in this type of property. Let me know. There's just a million types of directions that you can go with the newsletter that can be helpful, even if it's not opened. You're in their inbox. So you use stay top of mind. Yeah, they see your name. That's worth its weight in gold, even if they don't open it. Yeah. Okay. So, um, I guess, can you tell us a little bit about what working, like actually signing up and working with you looks like? So I know, um, it looks like you have kind of three different options on your website, like the free five minute little kit, and then you can, like, go deeper. Can you tell us a \[00:32:00\] little bit more about that? Yeah, I have a freebie. That's how to tell a compelling story in five minutes flat. That's the one I mentioned earlier. It's a very quick five minute video and, um, a little worksheet that you can work through that will help you really tell. a good, solid foundation of a story. Um, the way I, the way I work with people is because of the bottle effect and because we're all so close to our own selves, and it's so hard to write our own copy, my main offer is a done for you copywriting. service. So we're all spread too thin. Everyone's busy. And my promise is that you can have copy that that sells for your website or your webpage in 2. 5 hours flat. So the process begins with me extracting the gold from your brain. This is me like pulling out the components of the \[00:33:00\] story that are inside you because they're there. They're just cluttered up with a whole lot of other information. And so I pull that information out of your brain. Then I write your copy for you so you don't even have to deal with it. No more torture. And then you and I, you and I meet on a 90 minute call and we really infuse your voice. Into the copy. So it feels exactly aligned with who you are. We don't want to put anything out there that doesn't feel truly aligned with you. And then, um, yeah, and then I, basically we transfer that copy to the website or the webpage, and I look over to make sure the visuals are all dialed in, cause we really want to make sure the visuals are telling the same story that the, the words are. So you really, I mean, yes, you're a certified story brand guy, but I mean, you're able to go much deeper into all of the marketing and like. \[00:34:00\] Actual nuts and bolts, like website design, stuff like that too. Yes, that's right. Right. Everybody comes through. So red door designs is my company name. If you, if you want to come through the red door, we go through the copy that sells in 2. 5 hours flat process. And then at that point, you can take that copy and you know, it's yours. You can do what you want with it, that the work we do together, it really becomes your brand copy Bible. So you have one document that you always go to anytime you need to write anything about your business. Um, if at that point you need help with website design or anything else, marketing related, we've built that solid foundation. And then I take that information and create the other components that you need. Okay. So you make it easy for everybody. I do. I do. I love the work. I really, really love the work. And I love watching the relief on my client's faces. \[00:35:00\] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how it works. So, um, and you said your mom was a realtor, correct? She was, yeah. Was she an agent when you started doing the certified storybrand stuff before, or? I think she had just recently retired when I started doing this work, so I didn't get to apply. The framework to her marketing, but she was, um, yeah, she was a realtor for windermere for many years and, and she did great. I mean, she was very successful and she was in the same community for a very long time, kind of a small tight knit community. And so people were very loyal to her. Um, but my grandmother was also big into real estate buying property. Rentals and I've \[00:36:00\] kind of carried in her footsteps in that regard as well. Yeah, so awesome. Okay. So yeah, that kind of gives you that real estate knowledge background that you were kind of telling me about. Um, what like demographics are you working with most specific or not demographics, but, um, is real estate like one of your big industries that you're working with or. Yeah. Yeah. Loan originators, realtors, um, service providers, as long as you're really the face of your business or when you are the business, that's, those are the people I really like to work with. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it makes some, like, we've had a couple of marketing people on here too. And, um, you know, I talk about how it can be kind of hard, like so much of marketing right now is. Giving yourself, um, authenticity and making yourself more human and relatable. Um, but then, you know, then we have, or at least like for me, I've got \[00:37:00\] empower real estate group that we've got our own, like. Brand for that. And I want to include myself in some of that, you know, to make it more personal. And then we've got like stuff for the team, but it can just be, it, we can be hard when it's like a, a team based deal. Um, I don't know. I'm trying to think of how to word it. It can be hard to really like position yourself as. Um, so do you also work with like teams or like, kind of like brokerage styles as well? I mean, your brand is the guide, um, you might be the, the lead guide of the other guides, but your brand is really the guide. And, and yeah, I work with teams as well. Um, so it doesn't have to just be like the solopreneur, um, team. Yeah, yeah. There's always a way, even with \[00:38:00\] multiple people, always a way to kind of tell the story. I've, I've yet to, um, work with a client that it hasn't worked really well for. Awesome. Yeah. So, uh, so we've talked newsletters, buyer and seller guides, social media. Um, where else are you seeing people implement this? You know, in their, in their lives as real estate agents. Yeah. I mean, I would recommend the beautiful thing about it is like you, if you do the work of telling your story, if you go through that, my freebie of compelling the compelling copy in five minutes freebie, you've got a foundation there. And then I really recommend just. You know, putting it everywhere, um, marketing is really an exercise and in memorization and you're getting sick of your own messaging. That's when it's actually going to start to \[00:39:00\] work for you because other people are starting to memorize it. Others, they need about eight times to hear the message, to actually digest, to really commit it to memory about who you are, what you're about. So I recommend putting it. Everywhere. Um, the one liner is what we call it. It's that very short, concise story, put that in your email signature. That can be one of the best things that you can do. Every email that goes out your email signatures there. Probably you have a little photo of you and maybe your handwritten signature or something like that. And your title and contact info. But what can really work well there is your one liner. So that two sentence short story about the problem that you solve. Um, and then without even thinking about it, every email that goes out, it's getting committed to memory to everyone who's receiving it. So that's one place that \[00:40:00\] I, that I think people forget how valuable that little bit of real estate is in the form of your email, um, in your LinkedIn banner. So If you're on LinkedIn, you know, put a, a condensed version of it up there in your banner, also in your profile, um, any blog posts that you do or email newsletters, um, your, your website or your webpage, of course, um, Really any, any type of writing that you're doing for your business, if you're going to be on a podcast interview, that's the information that you'd want to send over. Um, I can't think of any piece of marketing that you wouldn't want to infuse your story into. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, you, you know, in your, you could put it on a, um. I don't know what your office situation is, but it'd be \[00:41:00\] great to, like, have it on the backdrop behind the reception area or, you know, on a wall. Get people rallying around this new way of thinking about the way you guys solve the problem and how unique that is. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Create a lot of alignment, a lot of alignment with team members. Yeah. It's incredibly powerful that way. Yeah. Love that. I like that idea. I have the words that I want my team to go by, like driven, like those things, I have those on my wall in my office, so. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I need to add my mission other places. Take them down. Not that, not that there's anything wrong with those words. Like you could certainly keep them up there, but people love to feel like they're part of something bigger. And when you tell this story, your team members are going to really be like, yeah, this is what we're about.\[00:42:00\]  This is what we do. And, um, I think inspiring words is important. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think like telling a story that you can all rally around is going to be really powerful, not only for the team, but for all the people that you work with. And then you can even, what's kind of fun too, with, with team members is to say, okay, I'm going to randomly ask people on the team, what our one liner is. And if you, if you can recite it back to me, you get 20 cash. So get people to, to start memorizing it, that are on your team. And so the growth really, um, multiplies when you do that. It's pretty cool. Yeah, that's a good little, well, I guess a good little hack there. Love it. So, um, as we kind of roll, uh, roll up our episode here at the end, do you have any other last minute hacks, tips or tricks, \[00:43:00\] uh, for our agents that are listening in, I think the main thing I would say is just. Like, start to understand the difference between the hero and the guide. And even when you're, if you're watching a movie or reading a book, like kind of start thinking about who they are and then start thinking about that for yourself. I think if you just did that and nothing else, things are going to start to change for your business because people are going to feel a different type of care that comes through your communications. Yeah. It's really beautiful. It's, it's a really beautiful tool for creating authentic connections and helping you authentically put yourself out there online, even when you can't be there in person and really have those two things feel very aligned. Yeah. With you. \[00:44:00\] Awesome. Uh, Casey, any other last minute questions? No, I mean, my big thing was my newsletter because I'm really focused on pulling that out and making it bigger and better and making it more of a thing that's going to produce. So. Awesome. so much for coming on the podcast. Um, guys. Okay. So we've got her, we've had her website. Um, so you can see an example of what a great story brand looks like, but also go on there and get her freebie. Um, I just downloaded it. I'm going to watch it, um, tonight, uh, and kind of go through her little playbook on that. Um, but yeah, I mean. Get connected with Chris. This is an amazing opportunity for you guys. And I really, um, like we said, it's just been, it's a, it's definite minds, uh, mindset switch having to position yourself as the guide and making your client, um, you know, the hero of the story and Chris, I'm with you. I think I'm going to start \[00:45:00\] like practicing, really trying to see. The world like that and, um, recognizing that in, in other people's material, I mean, movies, TV shows, books, um, you know, other people marketing out there and small business owners. So, um, yeah, just really appreciate it. And it's so nice to be connected to a certified person right after reading the book. So thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful to be here. You guys. Thank you. It was an honor. And yeah, it was a great conversation. So thanks a lot. Awesome. Well, we will see everybody on next week, uh, on Mondays and please don't forget to follow us on Spotify and Apple podcasts. We are on there now. We post almost daily on our social media also to make it easy for you. Click the link. Look at the bell and then make sure I, yes, get the bell, get the notifications going. So, you know, when they, when they come out, awesome. \[00:46:00\] But thank you, thank you again, Chris. And thank you to our audience for, for hopping on following. All right. Bye bye. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/peaceful-profits ### Title: Peaceful Profits Review: Transform Your Business with Powerful Storytelling, with Chanelle Neilson and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6741575 ### Content: ## Peaceful Profits Review: Transform Your Business with Powerful Storytelling Strategies ## The Peaceful Profits Podcast with Chanelle Neilson and Kris Jones Peaceful Profits Review: Transform Your Business with Powerful Storytelling, with Chanelle Neilson and Kris Jones Ever notice how the hardest thing to write is your own story? (Trust me, even as a professional copywriter, I've been there!) ? I recently sat down with Chanelle Neilson on the Peaceful Profits Podcast to share something I've never really talked about before - my journey from being the designer who quietly watched her clients struggle with website copy to becoming the person who helps them find their million-dollar message. ? Here's what stopped me in my tracks: watching a published author (yes, really!) completely freeze when trying to write her own website copy. That moment changed everything for me. ? Want to know what I discovered? That perfect writing isn't what sells - it's the right story, told the right way. And I'm sharing exactly how I help my clients find theirs. ⚡️ ? The counterintuitive truth about why most website copy fails (even when it's beautifully written)  ? My "Signature Story-Selling System" that helped one client raise their rates by 600%  ✨ The simple shift that turns your "about" page from boring to brilliant After 20+ years in business (including my time at Nike), I've learned that the most powerful story you can tell isn't actually about you at all. Curious? Listen in to discover what it is - and how it could transform the way clients see your business forever. ? Ready to make your website work as hard as you do? ? Chanelle: \[00:00:00\] Hello, peaceful profits nation Chanel here with an exciting client spotlight episode for you today. So today we're talking to our client, Kris Jones, Kris, welcome to the podcast.  Chanelle: I'm looking forward to this conversation. So let me introduce you all to Kris and let me introduce Kris to our audience. So, uh, most business owners miss out on sales because their website copy isn't working. Kris's signature story selling system helps them replace all their marketing with a single story. So they can attract more clients. Amplify revenue and enjoy more time freedom. Kris founded Red Door Stories in 2003 and was mentored by Donald Miller, author of building a story brand. She's worked with high profile companies, including Nike and Adidas, but her favorite clients are self employed service providers because they struggle the most with copywriting and can experience the greatest benefits once they get their story, right? So Kris, to start off, I would love to \[00:01:00\] hear some of just your favorite client wins. Kris: Wow. Um, I've worked with all kinds of entrepreneurs, mostly service providers. There was one in particular, my client, Mike, he was on the verge of, I mean, he was burned out legit. And he, um, He was charging. He wasn't charging enough. And so we, we boosted him up and we got his copy dialed in and his visuals dialed in and he was able to charge six times more for the exact same service. Chanelle: Yes. Wow. That is huge. And I imagine just what a difference that would make in his business.  Kris: Huge, huge. I mean, he is really thriving. Yeah. Yeah. He, he really began to move through the world with a lot more \[00:02:00\] confidence.  Chanelle: That's awesome. Let's hear another one. I'd love to hear another client win because that was so good. Kris: So I have a lot of clients who spend a lot of time on sales calls and they dread it. They take a long time. They don't like the feeling of selling. And so what shifted the most for my clients is they really get on these calls and they don't feel like they have to sell anymore because they really understand the value that they're bringing to the table. So they just get on the call, they talk about the work that they do, they connect authentically, and the byproduct of that is just they get more clients. So there's a client that I have who, she was closing about 25 percent of her calls, which is actually Not bad at all. Right? And by the time we wrapped up working together, she was \[00:03:00\] closing 95 percent of those calls. So she knew that essentially any call that was booked with her would essentially turn into a new client.  Chanelle: Okay. I love that one. That is amazing. All right. I'm so glad you shared those because I'm sure listeners are very intrigued hearing those, those two client experiences, because those are things we all want in our business and really looking forward now to hearing more and, and learning more about how you do it. So one last thing y'all should know about Kris. Kris believes that writing copy for your own business doesn't have to feel like torture. In fact, once you know how to tell a compelling signature story, it can actually be fast, easy, and fun. And I love that. So I love this idea about story to start off with. I mean, this is so great that you help your clients replace their marketing with a single story. So let's start with your story. What got you into this business? \[00:04:00\]  Kris: This, the work that I, that I do is truly my calling. I, you know, I found it early in my career, so I was in my early twenties when I, I got into marketing. I started. As a brand designer, so I worked with a lot of really well known companies, Nike being one I've had Jeff Bezos as a client and worked with some really big corporations and learned a ton like I look back on that time and I'm so grateful for it. And it was really in that era, it was, you know, design was, um, it still is design is so incredibly important and that's where I really got experienced with visual storytelling. And that's really, that was like my first language in many ways. And I loved graphic design. I loved logo design. I loved website \[00:05:00\] design. And that was really. My area of expertise and what happened eventually is that I went out on my own. I started my own business. I was really passionate about helping people that were similar to me, meaning solopreneurs, small business owners, entrepreneurial in spirit, and At that point in time, like all anybody needed to thrive as a business is just to even have a website. Like if you had a website, you are a legitimate business. This is early on in like 2000, maybe five ish. Um, and then as time went on, the landscape online changed. And what I found is that The words on the website became much, much more important, but I, I really, that really wasn't my area of focus. So what I would do is \[00:06:00\] a client would come to me and hire me to design a website. And I would say, okay, your website copy is due on, let's just say April 1st. And, um, I'll never forget this one client named Elise. She was, she had been in the publishing industry. She was very comfortable writing, great with words, and she wanted me to do her website. So I said, okay, your copy is due on April 1st and then I'll get going on the design and we'll be off and running. So April 1st came, I got a call from her and she was like, I don't know what is going on. I am completely stuck. Like the more I try and write this copy, the harder it is, the I'm not making any progress. It's actually getting worse. And she's like, I don't have anything to give you. This has been such a nightmare. Can you help me? And so we brainstorm a \[00:07:00\] few ideas. Um, I gave her the names of a couple of copywriters. Um, I, I, you know, gave her some templates. I recommended she talked to some clients that she had worked with. Um, but ultimately none of those ended up working because, you know, she couldn't outsource her own voice. So the copy that other people were writing just didn't feel like her. And when you're the face of your own business, it's, it's really hard to outsource your own copy. Like, I don't know anyone who can really nail that. And so thanks to Elise. I just made it my mission to never let this happen again. She was not my first client who was struggling with this. Um, and it manifested in, in many ways, like Elise was full on just stuck and paralyzed and frustrated. I had other clients that \[00:08:00\] would just write and write pages and pages and pages of website copy, which is also not effective in helping you get new clients. And so at that point, I just made it my mission. I am not going to let this happen again. I traveled across the country. I went to workshops. I read books. I, I even became one of the very first story brand guides before the book building a story brand even came out. And so like after immersing myself for quite a long period of time, I, I just came out the other side. I never treated it a project. Excuse me. I never treated a project the same way again. I never worked on a project where I didn't infuse storytelling principles into the project. Whether it was design or writing, like it always, it began to elevate everything that I worked on. \[00:09:00\] And not only that, like my business at that time, I was really relying on referrals to keep my business going, which. Referrals are great, but they're very unpredictable and it's really a hard and stressful way to run a business. So I, of course, applied everything that I had learned to my own website and my own marketing. And the same thing started happening for me too. Like I was getting booked out with, with lead calls. I had clients. Traveling in, I live in Portland. So I had clients like taking the train here and road tripping here to meet me in person because they wanted to work with me and it was really fun and exciting. And I couldn't even believe like the power of story. And, and I will tell you like many years into doing this work, it's still is. You know, it's not a surprise to me \[00:10:00\] because I understand why it works and the power of it, and I've watched it time and time again with my clients, but I'm always delighted by the results that it actually delivers.  Chanelle: You know, one thing that is coming up for me that I would love for you to just take a step back and almost define story, because I think that, I think there almost can come a panic for people when they hear that like, story, that sounds good, and then this moment of like, oh, wait, what is my story? I don't know what my story is. So, or what a story even is, right? So when we're talking about story, what, what do you mean exactly?  Kris: It's such a good question because everybody thinks they know what a story is. We've all grown up getting stories read to us as children. But the type of story that I'm talking about, and even every movie you watch, every book you've ever read, it always begins with a hero that has a \[00:11:00\] problem they don't know how to solve. That hero about a third of the way into the story meets a guide who has a plan, a plan of how that hero can solve that problem. And when the hero follows that plan, they ultimately end up experiencing success and avoiding failure. That is the formula. It will ruin every movie for you moving forward. But that's the formula. And so when I talk about story for my clients, number one, I like, like to let my clients off the hook because your story isn't really about you. It's about your hero. And your clients are the hero. You are the guide in the story. So for, for most of my clients, they're relieved that like, Oh, I'm not like, I'm not, I don't want to be the hero of my own story. I don't want this to be about me. Yes, you are. In the story, this is like really a way of inviting \[00:12:00\] your potential clients into a narrative with you. A narrative where they play the role as the hero and you play the role as the guide. So you're actually the strongest character in the story as the guide. The hero is the weakest character in the story. And that's why we never want to be the hero of our own. story. There's only room for one hero. And when you're the hero of your own story, you literally kick your potential clients out of a narrative with you instead of inviting them into that narrative with you. Chanelle: So interesting. Okay. Thank you for that. I think that will help with context as we talk. And just wanting to point out here, when I asked for your story in your business, If you guys weren't listening, if you guys didn't hear it, that is exactly what Kris did, right? This story was not about, it was about your clients. You were the guide in that story. Here's how I helped this person. Here's what was happening. Here's how these people were coming and having this adventure. And so I \[00:13:00\] think that's really, um, powerful to see in action of how that works. So, I love that your business, you know, started off with marketing, then really honed in on stories. How has it evolved and changed to now? Like what are you doing differently now in your business then as you've incorporated story?  Kris: Yeah, I think that the thing that I've been working toward for many years is simplifying my business. Really the question I asked myself a few years ago was like, what's the biggest problem that I can solve in the shortest amount of time? And I, every client that I talk to is frustrated and fed up trying to write their own copy. It's so hard to do. And it, and if you're a good writer, it's even harder because your standards are higher and you feel like, Oh, I should be able to do, \[00:14:00\] to do this. But there's two things going on. One of them is the curse of knowledge, which just means you've been in your industry long enough. You're pretty much an expert and you've forgotten what it's like to not know what you know. And so this often like. shows up as a website using terminology and lingo that like the new person coming to your website can't quite get. And so they feel stupid, which we would never want our potential clients to feel that way. Um, and then the other piece is what I call the bottle effect, which is really essentially it affects everybody. It just means that You're inside of the bottle. Like when you're trying to write for your own business, you don't have the perspective that you need. You're inside the bottle, trying to read the label that can only be read from outside. And \[00:15:00\] so I like to think of myself as like the person that they can come and look at your bottle and read the label for you and help you really identify the story because your story is truly inside of you, it's inside of each and every one of us, and it's up to me to pull that and like, For lack of a better word, extract it from you. Or I like to call it mining for gold. The gold is in there. I just have to go in and identify it. And as entrepreneurs, we have so much happening in our brains at any given time, ideas and client work and things we want to do and vacations we want to take. Like it's just, it can feel very overwhelming to try and identify what is the treasure of my story versus what is like the clutter and the noise. And so a big part of my work with my clients is really clearing out the clutter and really identifying that gold.  Chanelle: I like that. And I like both of those \[00:16:00\] analogies, the idea of mining for gold and then the bottle effect. I think that's really, it's real. It makes it very clear to me because. And we beat ourselves up like, I'm, I'm in this bottle. I should be able to see it. But obviously when you're saying that, well, of course you can't see it from that angle. And so it's very helpful to have someone who can see a lot more clearly than you. So I love the work that you do. You came to Peaceful Profits, um, a while back. Tell me what brought you here and what was going on in your business that led you to working with Peaceful Profits. Kris: Well, I am a big fan of Mike Shreve. I love his down to earth, simple way of being. I love the way he communicates. I felt immediately like I could trust him. And, you know, I feel like Donald Miller is also a person, you know, of note that shows up in that way too. \[00:17:00\] And both those two people, I just want to be around people like that and digest that their content. And for me, I think it became once I got really clear on my core offer and my main like high ticket offer, I, I realized that it was important to reach more people. And make a bigger impact and the way that Peaceful Prophets approaches funnels and book funnels and writing a book, um, as an expert, it just really aligned with like what I was wanting and also my very much like less is more, keep it simple approach. That's like my, my mantra. So it, it just, it felt really aligned and really natural to. Partner with peaceful profits.  Chanelle: And so talk to us a little bit about what you've done here within peaceful profit  Kris: Yes. \[00:18:00\] So I've written a book, number one, um, using the guidance that I have found within Peaceful Prophets. I have been working with Peaceful Prophets now for about a year, um, to put together and build a funnel for me. And so again, just expanding my impact, getting to reach more people. We haven't, we haven't gone live with the funnel yet. But like, it's. Still in the building phases of things, but the coaching that I've received, um, the coaching that I've received has been so good, like no one's immune from the bottle effect, right? So even, even though this is the work I do, like it's so helpful for me to be able to work with your experts and have fresh eyes on my business and I feel like. You know, I've always been quite goal oriented and I have a lot of drive, but my coach at peaceful profits, Margie, \[00:19:00\] the way I look at it is she has. Seeing a bigger dream and a bigger vision for me and my business than I could have really imagined for myself. So since working with peaceful profits, I've expanded my signature offer. So it delivers a lot more than it originally delivered. And because of that. The, the investment for that work has gone up, which has made it a lot easier for me to reach my financial goals to really move the needle for my clients. Um, that's just, I mean, there's, there's many intangibles, but that's like a really like a tangible. result. And so my numbers from last year versus this year are, have greatly improved. Like, yeah, if I quit working this year in September, I'd still be making way more than I made \[00:20:00\] last year.  And it's so good to hear too, especially when Your book isn't out yet. Your funnel isn't done yet. I mean, your book is done, but you're not running it as a book funnel, right? Right. Right. So that's so amazing because even while that's still in process, you've still increased the bottom line in your business. Kris: Isn't it? Like we haven't even yet like gotten live with, with the funnel, but it's completely changed. My business. And yeah, it's, it's been incredibly profound and I'm so delighted. Yeah.  Chanelle: Yeah. Congratulations on that. That's a big deal. Thank you. Recently, uh, a little bit ago you did a Workshop within peaceful profits. And I have heard from my clients just so much about what a difference that made in their business and you \[00:21:00\] help them with their story. And so I'd like to, to learn a little bit more from you and for listeners. With this idea of story and crafting their story, can you talk to us about some of the principles that go in it? Some, some tangible things that they can start to do to really find that gold and to figure out what they need to be talking about.  Kris: Definitely. I actually have a freebie that anybody can download and it's a five minute video and it will walk you through getting started with this. Once you watch the video and fill out the worksheet, like you can refer to that anytime you're ever writing for your business. And so the idea is just to get the gold out of your head and onto paper so you can kind of clear the clutter. And part of that freebie was incorporated into the workshop that we did. So they're, they're very much related. \[00:22:00\] Um, the, the main thing to identify is really what are the. What are the problems that your clients are struggling with? Like when you get on the phone with them in their words, what are they complaining about to you? And just brain dump three to five things that they're truly struggling with. And when we do this, this is like the most important work we can do. Because when we begin our communications in this way, really, we're showing that we care about them more than we care about ourselves. We really understand their struggle. And so they feel seen, they feel heard, they feel understood. And what's really cool when we do this well is that they automatically think if we understand their problems so well that we're the best ones to solve it. Um, even if we're not, they think that, like, it's just a really incredibly, incredibly powerful kind of psychology tool.\[00:23:00\]  Um, so we want to take the time to really articulate their problems. And then we want to brain dump, like, how do we solve this problem for our client? And we want to keep this real simple, like five to eight words. How do we, how do we solve this problem? Like, do we, um, Put together a financial plan for them. Do we help them change their relationship with time? Do we restore their eyelids or whatever? Like it could be anything. How do you solve this problem? And in the story, you always want to position your service as the solution to those problems that you just brain dumped. And so that's you. This is like what I'm talking about is like the shortest story you'll ever write. It's like two sentences long, but it's a full and complete story because it begins with a hero that has a problem about halfway through a guide enters in with a solution. \[00:24:00\] And then you want You want to also, this is in the worksheet. Um, you want to brain dump, what, what's the success? Like what's the happy end result that they're going to experience after they've solved this problem. And this is not like features of the work that you do. This is like, what's their life like after they've worked with you. And so by really getting clear on those three things, and this is, like I said, it's part of the work that we did in the workshop, but. It's truly the foundation of really Shifting the way that you talk about your business to make it much more about the hero and much less about you. Chanelle: Do people ever, I imagine that a shorter story is harder than a long story. Is, do you hear that a lot?  Kris: Uh, yes. I mean, I don't hear that a lot, but I know that to be true. And it is absolutely \[00:25:00\] true. There's a, there was a president. I believe, I can't remember which one who said this quote, which was, I would have written you a shorter letter, but I didn't have time. And so that's what happens. We kind of brain dump and lots of stuff comes out. And really the key is because people don't really read what websites anymore. The key is to really trim, trim, trim, and just like. Storytelling can be a great filtration device. You filter out all the noise and you keep only the essentials. And it is, it's very hard to write a very clear and concise story.  Chanelle: Yeah, I can see that because you have to have this level of clarity that with just like, you know, the president that said that you, you, there's so much more thought that goes into something brief, where if you just spill it all out there, you don't have to have quite as \[00:26:00\] much clarity. You don't have to have quite as much thought behind it. And so there's a real power that comes from getting to that level of clarity so that you can keep it that brief.  Kris: Completely. And not only that, when some, but when you do the heavy lifting of like doing that work. ahead of time for your clients, they come to your website and they trust you because you're not wasting their time with like a bunch of copy and they're not having to figure things out themselves. It's just being spoon fed to them. So it's like another layer of trust. And all of that kind of happens subconsciously, but it's like, Oh, they're clear on what they do. They're showing me how I'm going to benefit from it. They understand the nuances of, of my struggle. I therefore can really trust this person's clear. They're a guide that I want to work with versus the \[00:27:00\] opposite where you kind of end up leaking trust and waffling because you're overloading people with information. You haven't taken the time to be clear who wants to hire a guide who hasn't taken time to be clear about who they are and what they do. Chanelle: Yeah. We are looking for that very strong, very powerful guide. That's going to just get us to where we want to be and not take any detours, not get lost along the way. Right. So I love this. I think this is so needed. And it's so powerful. The things that you've shared. Now, one of the things that you said in your own business, in your own story, you used to play small, and now you're not playing small anymore. I'd love to hear what that, what that means to you, what that looks like.  Kris: Yeah, I think I really had a lot of fear around visibility. And I, and I still, I wouldn't say I have a lot of fear around it, but I, I think I'm \[00:28:00\] naturally drawn toward working one on one with clients and really having this intimate, dig deep, profound, transformate, transformative experience. So like I've stayed true to that piece of myself. I think a lot of people will tell you if you want to scale your business, you have to do group work and you have to, um, like. Work with larger groups of people. And I have just fundamentally intentionally not gone down that path. Cause I don't feel like I can deliver what I deliver in a group. Um, so on one hand, I've really kept things intimate there. On the other hand, I've become much more visible in. My outrage and how I reach people. And so the workshop that I did in partnership with peaceful profits was such a good example \[00:29:00\] of that. I. I can't even a year ago, couldn't have even imagined doing a workshop, a three hour workshop for over a hundred people like that was so incredible and such a thrill and it's taken time for me to get to that point. So I started, you know, in different communities doing workshops and maybe helping five or 10 or 15 people and like got comfortable with that, but I will tell you my first workshop. That I did was for two people, two people showed up. I was so nervous. My armpits were sweating. Like it was, it was a real, it was a real hurdle, like in a real stretch for me. But I was, I was called to do it. And, um, I'm so like. Happy and thrilled that I can show up now and have \[00:30:00\] the, like, have the ability to essentially reach more people and help more people and teach. I think like fundamentally, like the teaching part for me is so fulfilling and I want to be able to help people. Even if, you know, they aren't able to work with me one on one, and that feels good. Yes.  Chanelle: I love that. And I think that that's really cool how you have been able to straddle that line between, you know, you're still giving that one on one attention where it's needed, but that added visibility just allows more people to. Make progress in their own business to craft their own story and then to move on and work with you If that is their next step and I love that you're answering the call, right? You feel called to do it. And so you're stepping into that space. So that's good so Uh as we as we close up here I would love to hear advice that you would give to others who are \[00:31:00\] really In this space where they feel like their story's not quite there yet, they, they aren't, they're stuck in the bottle. They're not quite sure what, what to do, how to figure this out. What would you say to them?  Kris: That it's, it doesn't have to be as hard as you think it is. Just truly like I created that freebie to get people unstuck. For no cost and to help you really in five minutes, understand the fundamentals of story and how to apply it in your own business. And even if you just did that, it would change the way you talk about your business and the work that you do forever. And the other thing I would say is that. I believe every business owner needs just one page on the web that sells for them. And when you take the time to just. Like \[00:32:00\] reduce the overwhelm. You just need one page for me. It's my homepage, my homepage, it's a heavy lifting homepage. It tells my whole story. It engages my clients. It clearly communicates the offer, um, that I have and allows them to book a call with me or purchase it right there. And like, I have just. Put everything into this one page and that's all I need. And so no matter what I'm doing, where I'm talking, who I'm communicating with, I just know I send people to that page and I know that page is doing the heavy lifting of selling for me. And that way I can get on my sales calls and they're already cued up and excited about. about working together and I don't feel like I have to sell. It's like, it's such a time saver and it can also be such a relief to like, have boundaries, like to talk \[00:33:00\] about your pricing. If things are uncomfortable for you in person, let your homepage Or that one page online, do that work for you until you can get more comfortable doing it yourself.  Chanelle: I love that you're practicing what you preach. You have truly simplified your business, right? To this very, here's what it is. And that it's doing that heavy lifting for you, because that makes such a big difference in, in the way we feel about our business and in the profitability of our business in all those things. But it makes your business a joy to run at the same time because you're not getting on these soul sucking sales calls. It's calls with people who come ready to go because they have read what you've so carefully crafted on that.  Kris: Yes. And you know, we are wearing so many hats running your own business, like so many hats. So How can we reduce overwhelm with all those \[00:34:00\] hats? Like a website in general can be a very overwhelming, daunting. Usually there's a lot of like emotion around it. Like either you're ashamed of it or you're overwhelmed by it. You don't know where to begin. It, you don't, it's rare that I meet someone who's proud of their website. And that, that feels like it's a true reflection of who they are and doing the work for them. And, and so anything you can do to just simplify, and I think websites can be such a tangible way to simplify, simplify life and simplify your business. Like they really. It should, it should really be working for you in that way. Yeah.  Chanelle: Okay. I know that listeners are excited to go and learn more about you. You've talked about this amazing freebie that you have. We'd love to hear more about that. So where can people get more? \[00:35:00\]  Kris: Everything about me, you can find at my website, red door designs. com. R E D D O O R D E S I G N S. com at that website, you can download my freebie and watch that it's called five minutes to compelling copy, and you can download that, watch the five minute video and. At no cost, like really get the ball rolling with your own story. You can also book a money making messaging call with me. That's also free. And that's a 40 minute call with me. And together we'll look at your website and really identify like, where are the holes in your boat? Like, as far as storytelling goes, where do you need to boost your story up and what's working, what's not. Um, and then you can also find out also. At my website, how to work with me one on one.  Chanelle: Okay. Perfect. Red door designs. \[00:36:00\] com. I think that is amazing. We will go and check it out. Kris, thank you for being here and for all the things that you've taught us today.  Chanelle: Yeah, this was great. I've learned a lot. Everyone go and check out her website. And if you are interested in working with us here at peaceful profits, peaceful profits. com forward slash call, we are always happy to, to meet our listeners and thank you. We'll see you next time. Bye. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/walloflove ### Title: WallOfLove ### Page ID: 6741825 ### Content: # The Signature Story-Selling Wall of ❤️ *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/listen ### Title: Listen ### Page ID: 6872681 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/branded-2 ### Title: From Click to Client: A Chat with Kris Jones & Sarah Glenn ### Page ID: 6885669 ### Content: ## From Click to Client ## The Brand(ed) Podcast with Sarah Glenn From Click to Client: A Chat with Kris Jones & Sarah Glenn Have you ever felt frustrated watching perfect-fit clients slip away, even though you know you're great at what you do? As someone who's helped countless entrepreneurs transform their businesses, I've discovered why - and it starts with a crucial foundation most of us overlook. In my recent conversation with Sarah Glenn on the Brand(ed) Podcast, I shared why relying on social media for your business is like building a house without a foundation, and revealed the strategic shift that's helping entrepreneurs turn their websites into 24/7 client-attracting machines. **Here's what I discovered along the way, and why it matters for your business:**  ? Why beautiful design alone isn't enough (and what's missing from most websites) ? The "musical score" approach that subtly guides visitors to take action  ⚡️ How one simple organizational shift helped my client charge 6X more for their services I know how overwhelming it feels to wear all the hats in your business while trying to perfect your marketing. After 20+ years of helping entrepreneurs tell their stories, I've learned that simpler is always better. Ready to turn your website from a digital business card into your best salesperson - one that works for you even while you sleep? \[00:00:00\] Hello everyone and welcome on to branded. This is the podcast that takes you behind the scenes and beyond the brand. I am super excited to bring Kris Jones back into the branded family. We're doing another, uh, podcast with Kris and. If you don't remember her from the first episode, she is the founder of Red Door Stories and Story Brand Guide with 20 plus years of high level industry experience. Kris is passionate about helping coaches and service providers replace all of their marketing with a single story. So they can get more clients, grow their business and focus on what they do best. Kris, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me, sir. I'm really, really thrilled to be here. And honestly, Kris \[00:01:00\] and I, we were chatting before we started recording this episode and we are so in sync and like aligned with the things that we're thinking about for our business, the things we're thinking about for our clients. And we really thought that this would be a really fantastic episode to bring to you guys, especially with the history of. Episodes I've been doing in 2025, um, this just fits the mold so beautifully. And on top of all of that, Kris has a really exciting development happening in her business. She is launching her second book from click to client, how to get, um, how to easily create a story driven website that turns visitors into clients. And today you guys are getting a sneak peek, kind of deep dive into some of Kris's favorite parts of this book. Yay. And honestly, this is one of the things I wish that I saw more of before I go and buy a book or buy the audible, how like incredible is it? He gets to talk to the author and like really deep dive into all the juicy bits of the book. So, \[00:02:00\] um, we're going to dive right in. The first thing that I want to really. Um, what you've got going on is once you have that story driven website, so let me just preface if you guys haven't seen the first, uh, podcast with Kris. Go watch that. I can link it in the show notes here, but we talk a lot about getting that story driven website and that story driven brand for your business. And so this episode is going to pair really nicely with that one. Um, but yeah, let's start there. Once you have that story driven website, how do you then get all the eyeballs on it that you need? Exactly, right? If you have a website, but no one's coming to visit the website, it's definitely not going to be working for you. And what happens, I would say, like what happens for most people, um, is they feel like, okay, I've, I've got to have a website. I have a business, I have to web, I have to have a website. I've got to get something up \[00:03:00\] quickly. So, you know, I can point people to it. And so typically. We will hop on Squarespace or hop on Wix and pull up a template, fill in the blanks and kind of follow their lead. And I'm a big fan of, of cloud builders like Squarespace and Wix because they make it so easy. But the challenge with the templates that they provide are like these builders are in the business of brochure websites. They're not in the business of client converting websites. So if you, yeah, and they, they can make a beautiful website, right? If you follow their template, sure. It looks pretty, but is it effective? And what's the point of paying that monthly fee if it's not going to effectively convert you clients. And then the. The expense of that is really less about the monthly fee and like how many \[00:04:00\] clients are Potential clients are coming to the website and then moving along that you don't know about and and ended up ending up finding somebody else so when you Really take the time to make your website a story driven website. It totally changes the way Um, your website works for you. The idea is really to have a website that becomes your best sales person. So you don't have to be the one selling all the time. I mean, it's, it, number one, people don't love selling. I would say I would like most people actually hate selling. Um, and so. We want to be able to do that less. And what's beautiful is that our website can really do that heavy lifting for us. So if the website is converting people, um, when they book a call with us, they're either already sold or they're so excited about working with us, those sales calls. \[00:05:00\] Are really a lot of fun because they're already pre sold and then they're just like, okay, what's it going to look like to work together? So that's the importance of having a story driven website once you have one Then there are ways to really ensure that you get eyeballs On that website. And there are ways that you can really amplify its effectiveness. Um, the first way is really treating your website as the hub of your business, your website. If you imagine like the visual of the solar system and our sun is the central. Part of our universe, right? So, um, so really all your little, all your marketing efforts or your marketing activities, um, really circle around that sun and point. People back to it. \[00:06:00\] So I like to tell my clients You do not have to be everywhere and be doing everything if you're not an instagram person Don't worry about instagram. Like what are you drawn to are you drawn to? Having your own podcast are you drawn to having podcast being a podcast guest which is really how I Amplified. My business was really being a guest. I love that. That feels effortless for me. So that was one of the things that I picked. And then the other thing that I picked was email marketing, just emailing my list and nurturing those relationships. So I say there are lots of planets that you can. Yeah. Delve into as far as marketing activities. You don't have to pick all of them. Pick one or two that you really enjoy. And then put your energy into those. And point, always point people back to the website. Um, because the website is really the central hub of your \[00:07:00\] business. So. It just takes the pressure off because you can just show up, you can share your message, you can be present, um, and then you just know, you point people to the website and it's going to do that heavy lifting for you. Yeah, I completely agree. And I think that it's a shift in perspective that is really important for business owners and this Particular time because so many business owners are, they rely so heavily on social media. Awesome. It does a lot of lifting for you. It's a great place to have conversations. It's a great place to showcase things, but it should never be the foundational. It shouldn't be the son of your business, right? As Kris says, like Instagram should not be the son that your business. Revolves around because it is, you potentially could be in some deep water. If something goes a little sideways, \[00:08:00\] we don't, you know, we don't own these platforms. We they're free for us to use. So use them as a free marketing tool, use them as the asset that they are. But I am so with you getting a website that reflects. It's your business that does all of that heavy lifting for you. And yeah, it can be a little bit, it can feel a little overwhelming, I think in the very beginning to do all of that work. But if you just like anything in life, you know, if it's worth doing, it's worth putting effort into. And that work on the front end of having those conversations with somebody, or even if you're just talking with chat GPT, right? Like having. Having those moments to reveal, okay, what's the story of my brand? How can I then translate it into the website? And you're so right. When you say it removes so much pressure when you are showing up live, when you're doing, you know, static content, whatever it is, you don't have to be thinking, \[00:09:00\] okay, where do I need to send people now? Where's the, where's the thing that has the thing that I promised? It's all in one place and you don't have to think about it. Like it really is like so much, so much easier. Yeah. I really think of your, of your business like a house, right? If you don't want to build your house on without a foundation and when you do rely on Instagram and social, um, which I'm in agreement with you, I think they're both. They're all, um, really can be really important ways to grow our business and very effective if we enjoy that when it doesn't work is when you don't enjoy it and you feel like you have to do it. And so I like to let people off the hook. You do not have to do a social media if you don't like it. It's not, it's not an obligation, but. As you shared, you don't own the platform. They could turn you off in a matter of an hour. Um, \[00:10:00\] flip of a switch all of a sudden, no more Instagram or Tik TOK. And, um, and then what do you do? Right. And, and so when you take the time to really build a solid foundation for your business, it, it involves, um, taking the time and putting the energy into making sure that that foundation is. Going to support you and that it's strong and that you own it and it can't be taken away from you. Mm hmm Yeah, yeah I'm such a firm believer of the importance of a website because I was Very much on the fence before I really started getting into this work a few years ago where I was like, yeah Sure websites antiquated because I wasn't really visiting them. I wasn't running my business at that time But they really aren't integrated because anytime you get an email that sells you into something It's taking you to a website a funnel page, whatever It's almost never taking you to a social media platform, \[00:11:00\] right? Like social media for me the way I see it. That's maybe Like the door you walk through, but the house you're in is the website, right? Like, yeah, it's very much that sometimes I talk about it. Like, you know, you've, you've built this house, right. And you've just, it's got a strong foundation. You've, if you've built this house and then you want to have a housewarming party, and so you send out invitations to everybody to join you for the celebration and the social media is. A lot like those invitations, it's reaching all your people, it's inviting them to come to your house. And so the last thing you want to do is send out all those invitations. Um, and people RSVP, they show up at the door and then they, they get there and the house is half done and it's under construction. Yeah. You don't want that to happen. \[00:12:00\] No, not at all. Right. Um, All right. So I, I mean, I love, we're so in sync. It's crazy how we, we really are thinking along the same lines of this. And I think it is. It's such a conversation that just is, it's ready to be had for a lot of these business owners. Because I do think in this age of social media and as we, um, the autonomy of a business I think is what is so important for people right now and really understanding that like they can stand on their own two feet and have a strong business without having to rely on all of these other bits and pieces. And so honestly, for me, that's what's. So valuable about having this podcast, about having these conversations, it's really just reminding people of their own empowerment, right? Their own power of how much they can take control of their business. Um, so the next part of the conversation I want to have, and this one's probably going to be a little juicy. Um, I want to talk about having that social proof, having that \[00:13:00\] testimonial. Um, this is something I'm. I'll like vulnerable moment. I don't do well enough for my own business. It's something that is on my mind as a improvement project. Number one for this year. But I know that you have a really fantastic, like Finger on the pulse of how to do this really well. And so I wanna ask you, you know, how important is it to have that proof of your work? Mm-hmm . And how can you like really bring it all together and get it onto your site in a way that Yeah. Helps it work. I love that you're calling it proof. Um, because truly that's what it is. It, people talk about testimonials and case studies and all that stuff. It's just proof. Like that's what, that's how we need our brains to be thinking of that. And. When potential clients come to your website, there is nothing more powerful that you can do than to show \[00:14:00\] proof that not only are you the expert at this, but you have helped other people get the results that your potential clients are really craving. Like what can be more powerful than having proof on your website that you can do this, right? And so, um, people believe what Other people say about you more than they believe what you say about you. And that's the other reason these, this proof is so effective. Um, but there are a lot of challenges around getting it, which is probably why like you, you've put it on the back burner, most entrepreneurs. Put this on the back burner. There's always like another fire to put out or task to address and this part of it falls on the bottom of the to do list and even when we Remember to do it, right you you think of it and you're like, okay I should email a \[00:15:00\] client and get their feedback because I know they they loved working with me and a lot of wonderful changes happen for them. I'd love to get their feedback on it. So we email them and say, would you mind like sharing a few words about what it was like to work with me? And your client gets that. And number one, they're like, of course, right? I loved Sarah. I loved working with Sarah. I'd love to give her a review. And I have to say, I've been on the receiving end of this, so I know exactly what it feels like to get that request and have such good intentions around it and then have that get lost in my inbox and I never reply with the, the testimonial. And so, um. Then that puts us in an awkward situation because you don't want to remind me to give you a testimonial. By the way, there's something nice \[00:16:00\] about me when you have a minute. Just check it in. Any nice words about me? And so it creates this awkward. Um, energy around like, okay, well, maybe they didn't want to give me a review and I don't want to pressure them to give me a testimonial if they don't want to. And then essentially it, it disappears into, to the ethers and you don't get a testimonial. Or, what happens, uh, often, too, is just you don't get around to asking for a testimonial. The other thing that happens is they give you a testimonial, but it's three paragraphs long and And so you're like, okay, this is amazing. And they talk about, oh, it was Sarah Glenn. She's so smart and she's so much fun. We really clicked and I thank you. I can't thank you enough. Um, but those testimonials. Don't don't really speak to the the \[00:17:00\] transformation that you provide right there They rave about how great you are. Well, of course, you're great I mean people aren't going to make decisions to work with you based on if you're great or not They're gonna make a decision to work with you based on if you can provide a transformation for them that they're looking for and so I Have an email template that I share with my clients And it's essentially an email, it says, Hey, you know, would you be willing to, to answer a few questions? And I break it down. So it's not this big ask of like, will you write me a testimonial? It's like, can you answer three or four questions? And they're very short. And, and it says, this should not take you more than two or three minutes. Um, and then you ask them three or four short questions. They reply back to you answering those questions and then you merge those answers together into one narrative \[00:18:00\] that really communicates the struggle that they were having before they worked with you. And what it was like to work with you. And then the, the ultimately that the benefit or the, the success that they got to experience as a result of working with you. And so that those kind of three buckets right there really. Communicate the shortest story ever told, um, which is just really the transformation that a client happens from struggle to success and how you do that for your clients. So it just allows you to share testimonials on your website that are concise, if they're not concise. Um, if the font is too small, no one will read them if they're on a slider, no one will read them and in fact, that's even worse because people might get halfway through them and then the slider moves and \[00:19:00\] then they haven't finished and that's a frustrating kind of experience to have on your website. If people are at your website and they feel frustrated, that's That's like, um, unconsciously that shows them that working with you is going to be frustrating. And so we just want everything to, to flow and be easy and, um, present that proof, you know, because we have it. I mean, we have the proof. We all have clients that we've worked with that are thrilled with, with the result that they've gotten. And it just couldn't be more important to have that on your website. I think, honestly, that's the piece of this that I have struggled with that I'm so glad that you mentioned, because it's exactly the answer that I've been looking for and the change I need to make in getting that proof for myself is outlining. For the person because I can ask all day long, you know, \[00:20:00\] Hey, would you mind doing a testimonial? And like you said, everyone will say yes, but the next thing that tends to happen is they go, well, what, what do you want me to say? And I'm like, it's coming from you. Right. And that's honestly been my, it's been the issue that hasn't created that proof. Hasn't created those testimonials of, you know, I get these text messages and voice memo saying how amazing I am, but I really need to I'm going to craft a way of making that narrative like he said, and piecing these things together. And so now I know that that's room for improvement in my own business that I can start to really. Um, become a little bit more systemized with getting the proof of my work, rather than just flying by the seat of my pants and, you know, smiling at a really kind text message, I can really get much more intentional about it. Um, and like I said, that's, that's 1 of my business goals for this year. And \[00:21:00\] this conversation is just happening at the perfect time. I love it on the topic of testimonials. Because this is a question I get too. Well, would you prefer me write something or do you want me to record myself? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. What's your take? Yeah, that's so good. Um, before we dive into that, I wanted to share, I'm so glad you brought that up about like, you hear wonderful things from your clients just from day to day, right? But um, what do you do with that? Yeah, and. And what I often do, because I'm always, my brain is always thinking like testimonial, like end goal testimonial. And so I have that kind of filter going all the time. So if they're sharing with me what they've been struggling with, like I file that in my brain. And then if they have wonderful things to say about the experience of what, what's happened for them, I filed that in my brain. And, or like you. \[00:22:00\] Said you have it on a voice text or, you know, Vox or whatever, like you can capture that information and what I will do often is I'll compile that information into a testimonial for them based on words that they shared with me. So I'm, I might cobble it together from a couple of different text messages or from what I remember from that initial call, where they were before we worked together. Then I'll write a two to three sentence testimonial and say, Hey Jamie, um, here are a few things that you shared with me. While we work together, and I'm wondering, um, if I can use this as a testimonial on my website. Does this feel aligned with what your experience was? And if not, feel free to tweak it and edit it and reply back to me with your changes. And so \[00:23:00\] you're doing the heavy lifting, right? It's based on things they've shared with you and insights that you've had. Um, but. You're doing the work for them, but it's also really authentic because it's based on what they've shared with you. Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree I think that's a fantastic way to do it I need to get a better system in place of like where I store these messages Yeah, yeah. Yeah top of mind Yeah, I mean, even if you kept like a, um, what is Google's note taking thing again? Is it keep, is it, oh, yeah. Google Keep is something I've seen it. Um, one of my clients, I use it for images, but uh, I suppose you could, I mean you could just have like a one that you just dump. Anytime you get a compliment, you just dump it in there and then when the time is right, that's smart. I'll have also look at Keith and see what it does. Yeah. All sorts of tools out there. um. I know that, well, whatever note taking tool, there's like \[00:24:00\] notion and you could honestly just have a Google doc called like, you know, client, client compliments. Um, so as far as video testimonials go, um, versus written, they're both incredibly powerful tools. I would say, um. You know, the, the easiest ones to get are often the written ones, just because people sometimes don't feel comfortable on camera or, you know, especially if you're like, Hey, can you give me a video testimonial? Um, yeah, people don't know what to say. And then they're recording themselves. Like I don't even like doing that on camera a fair amount. And, um, So what I like to do with my clients, well, number one, I'll say, uh, video testimonials are like, you can quote me on this a million times more powerful than a written \[00:25:00\] testimonial. They're both really effective, but no video is. It's so powerful because it's just more believable and also people can relate. You can hear the voice, right? You can, you can see the person and so you can resonate with them more easily and it just becomes more believable. Um, and you can also repurpose video testimonials and written ones, right? But you can reuse that stuff in your email newsletter or in your social media, right? You can, there are little workhorses that work for you. So it does. It does pay to put a little time and energy into them. Um, the same email template that I have with the four questions that I asked my clients to kind of pull out that transformation. Um, I've built in a system into my process where when I finished working with a client, I book a 15 \[00:26:00\] minute Like check in call with them where they can share what's going on for them. And also I let them know, like, I, is it okay if I record this and ask you a few questions about your experience? And I asked them those same four questions and then they answer those questions. I uploaded into Descript, which is my editing, um, platform, and I just edit out my voice and I just. Merge their answers together into one narrative and it's, you can see examples of this on my website. Like I have a whole page with just video testimonials and it's, it's so efficient. I mean, the calls 15 minutes, but we're usually done in about 10 minutes. Um, and it's a great way to just check in with your clients too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's a fantastic, like such a smart business move because \[00:27:00\] It's doing two really powerful things. It's giving you the proof of the transformative work that you just did with this client. But it's also giving your client, like, it's closing the loop on the work that you're doing together. But it's, it's giving them this, like, sense of, um, connection and like empowerment. And there's just this other level of service. By you copying on that extra call with them, showing that you care, and really interested in their transformation, not just in the fact that they paid you for work, and now they're gone, like that's not what it's about, you know. Absolutely, and also I think as humans, sometimes we forget the, uh, the headway that we've made and the accomplishments that we've achieved. And so what a great way to kind of wrap up the engagement to, for them to remind themselves of the struggle that they had before. \[00:28:00\] And now that they're on the other side of that struggle and they're truly the hero of their own story. Yeah. But they're really, um, they're really getting to remember that fresh in their mind about how far they've come. No, it's really, really smart. And it's such a great way to celebrate the, the success that, or, you know, that transition that has happened because, um, there was a quote that I saw recently and it was something like, we always, We're never actually feeling the full like excitement and celebration of our success and the things we achieve because we're constantly setting new benchmarks for ourselves, setting new goals. So we forget about the old goals, right? Yeah, I did that already, but we don't celebrate it. And so I think this is such a smart way to get what you need as a business owner, but to really. The clients celebrate those things because you're so right. It can be so hard for them to see all of the change that has happened, especially if they're maybe not the one doing the work they're \[00:29:00\] only seeing, you know, the client facing side of things, not really the back end of their business sometimes. Um, and so it's such a great way to. Help them get a full perspective and a full view of their own business as well. Yeah, it'd be fun to do like a a Venn diagram or some kind of visual of like All the things that happen with this one 10 minute call Because now my brain's going and i'm like, you know, what else happens is that you as the business owner Get a boost of confidence and a reminder for how powerful and effective your your work is. I mean the strategic The unintentional byproduct of this is that I get to. Be witnessing like the effectiveness of the work that I do, and that keeps my momentum going and keeps me really excited about the work that I'm doing. And so it's just like the ripple effect. It's endless, \[00:30:00\] right? Yeah, no, I, this is getting me really excited about integrating. Proof of my work into my business model, because it honestly hasn't been. And like I mentioned, I mean, I'm not afraid to admit, like, I don't run my business perfectly. And that is absolutely a place that I am falling short, which, you know, personally, I don't feel like I'm falling short. Cause I see those text messages, right? Nobody else is seeing them. And so figuring out a way to really do it, um, in a way that's like. Elegant and makes sense. And also highlighting, like for me, I love highlighting my, uh, my client's businesses. And when I just redid my website, um, about a month or two ago, I decided to actually utilize my client's businesses as part of my like brand story, because that's how my business is evolving. And so it's been really great to be able to be like, well, so and so was looking to do this. And so go check out their site. And so \[00:31:00\] it's like, This really symbiotic relationship between Promoting and selling my business while also showcasing the work I'm doing and the incredible work that my clients are doing. Being able to do both is just so rewarding. It totally is. No, that's lovely. So I want to talk about, like, we talked about a story driven website, but in that, it's not just the words we say, right? It's also the design. That we present. Yes. So what, where's the, what's the power behind that story driven design element? Yes, um, yeah, I'm a big, big believer and I, I know we're both aligned in Like design and the power of design our brains process visuals and images so much faster than we process words and so when you take the time to really have a story driven website and make \[00:32:00\] sure your words are intentional and Powerful and effective when you marry that with visuals that are aligned with and really bringing to life those words, um, you kind of pour gas on the fire with your website's effectiveness. So whether it's images, photos that you use, certain icons that you use, whether it's the way you treat your typography, I, I, I believe that, you know, Not everybody has the budget to hire a professional designer to design their site. There are ways and design principles that you can integrate that don't require you to be a designer. Um, one of them that I talk about in the book is just Using only two fonts on your website. So pick only two fonts don't use any other fonts and just stick to those two and then \[00:33:00\] the other thing that this is one that really It happens so often and it's like the easiest way to up level your website is just to pick three font sizes. You have a headline font size, you have a subhead font size, and you have a body copy or a paragraph font size. And let's just say it's like 25 for the headlines, 20 for the subhead, and 17 for the body. If you just keep to those three sizes, your whole website is going to elevate. I will tell you, majority of the websites I look at have like, I don't know, 18, 20, 25 different font sizes and our eyes really crave Simplicity and order. And most importantly, our, our brains and our eyes crave a guide. Like \[00:34:00\] we want to know that you've done the work to, um, refine your website. So my eye knows exactly where to go. Where do you want my eye to go? Tell me, show me, don't make me figure it out myself. So our eyes know that headlines are the most important thing. If we want to dig in a little. Deeper, we do the subhead and then we're really into like the content. We read the paragraph copy, but, um, that's a great way for your website to really feel just very clean, um, and professional. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with you. I think that when. I first was getting into website design, I was of the idea, you know, make it anything you want, as exciting as you want, but the more I've started to do design work and, and really refine what I'm doing and in my own craft, I have absolutely come to the conclusion that simpler is always better, \[00:35:00\] repurposing an image and multiple places, Never going to lose because people aren't going to see every single page of your website, right? So repurpose the copy people aren't going to when they didn't read the paragraph on page one. Guess what? They might be reading the paragraph on page three like they don't read your website like they do a book, right? They don't go from page to page to page and so and and often like I won't necessarily Repeat, but repeat the exact text, but I'll, I'll strum the same notes over and over. Right. And you just keep kind of banging on that same drum over and over because people need to hear things eight times before they can actually commit it to memory and absorb it. And so it does like it, it's actually less work for you. So you can kind of hone in on your core. The, the core things that you want to communicate and then keep kind of strumming that chord over and over again. I love that you mentioned the \[00:36:00\] typography because that I wholeheartedly agree with you to two different fonts, same sizes, you know, and the way you want to use it, use it the same way. Um, and I'll add to that, make sure that it also is mobile friendly, because if you have a size 25 headline on the desktop, looks beautiful, size 25 on a mobile phone, looks crazy. You know what I mean? Totally. Yes. And that's something that I've really been diving into a lot lately with my podcast episodes and my messaging is really getting people to understand like the responsiveness of your website. Yes. Can absolutely be a win for your business or will drive people away faster than anything. Yes. I have a whole, I have a whole section in the book on mobile first design and, um, and those cloud builders that we've talked about will automatically convert that for you. But that \[00:37:00\] is not, um, a science like that will, they, they kind of like. They do their, their best first pass at it, but it's really your job to go back in and literally look at your website on a mobile, on a smartphone, and then go through and edit it little by little to make sure it's converting. Because most people now are. looking at your website on a mobile device. And not only that, they're, they're taking it and they're, they're scrolling through this fast. So that's why everything has got to be concise and clear. No one's going to read long bodies text. Your fonts have to be really legible. Like they can't be too huge. They can't be too tiny. And it's your job to really. Ensure that wherever they experience your website design, um, that it, it's that they can digest it easily. I, I talk in the book a little bit about \[00:38:00\] story driven design, thinking of it as like a, um, a musical score. when you watch a movie, right? If it's done well, you don't notice it. It's there. It's like amplifying the emotions. It's creating some tension. It's like, it's taking us on a journey and we don't even know because we're so enthralled with the story. And that's really the role of your design is when it's done well. People aren't consciously aware of it. They just know it feels good and they know that they really like, they get what you're trying to say. And so that's how I like to think about it. No, that's an incredible analogy because when you, when you say, well, what does your website feel like? I think sometimes that can fall flat as a question because people are like. I don't know. I mean, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Right. But that was a great analogy because it is so true. You're watching a \[00:39:00\] movie, the music starts and you're like, wow, that's how I'm feeling right now. And the music's actually reflecting the, you know, or the, Oh, something joyous, you know, whatever. It's conveying exactly what you're feeling in the moment without you having to prompt that to happen. And yeah, I so agree with the website design. As you're scrolling, you find yourself going, okay, I'm, I'm in this. It's like, it's grabbed me in a way that makes me want to just keep like, it's like looking at an open house. You go to an open house and you walk through, you know, you're in the foyer and you're like, well, okay, let's check out room number one and you just keep going and all of a sudden you're like, Am I in the market to buy a house right now? I didn't think I was. Now I am. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I mean, uh, and back to the movie analogy, like the script of the movie or the actor's dialogue is like the story that you're sharing and we're so \[00:40:00\] pulled into the story, but. Part of the reason we're so pulled into this story is because the design is supporting and in alignment with that story. The design is really bringing that story to life. And when you've got both the written words really clear and compelling, and you've got the design really aligned with The, the written narrative that you, that you've crafted, that's when you really bubble up to the top of the internet. That's when you stand out as a leader in your industry. That's when your website really starts to work like your top sales employee. It's incredibly powerful. And almost no one's doing both of those things together. Yeah. Oh, I know. And not to mention the confidence that it instills in you as a business owner and you can confidently and someone to your website k Decide to book a call. They're going to do it. If they want to buy something, they totally can. Like having that \[00:41:00\] level of confidence in your website, knowing it can be that heavy lifting is huge. So good. It's so good. And we talk a lot about like the importance of a website or how powerful. A website can be to really capture potential clients. And when it's done really well, of course it does that, right? That's, that's our priority, but it's secretly repelling the wrong fit clients. Right. So, which is as important, we all know what it's like to get on. Call, calls or multiple calls and waste our precious time and energy on people that are kicking tires, nodding, not ready, you know, or not aligned with, with what you do, um, are not at a phase of business where they're even ready to invest in, in what you offer. And so it can really allow. Us as the business owner to protect \[00:42:00\] our time and to attract those right fit. And they identify by being on the website. Yes, this is this, I am the right fit here or they don't identify, which is also as important. Yeah. No, I've absolutely found myself on a site somewhat recently and it was some sort of like merchandise site, but the way it was set up, I found myself literally saying, I was like, eh, not for me. I thought, I thought, you know, maybe I saw an Instagram ad or something and I clicked into it. I don't remember the scenario, but sometimes I find myself down the rabbit hole and I'm like. This is really good. And then more times than not, I find myself down the rabbit hole going, nevermind. Let's climb up the rabbit hole. Right. Well, and, and it's interesting. It's an interesting point, especially when that kind of thing happens on Instagram, which I. I fall victim to that all the time, like the ads are compelling. They're visually beautiful. The \[00:43:00\] messaging's on target and they've obviously invested in this ad, but there's a disconnect between what the ad showed up as and then you go to the actual website and it, it's, it's almost like you're, you're at a totally different company. It doesn't, it didn't carry through. It's not, it's not cohesive. It's not consistent. And that's the other thing that really taking a story driven approach to what you do is beautiful because you do that. You do that foundational work on your website and you get it really dialed in and your story is compelling and then you get to repurpose that story everywhere. So it allows. Everything you do to really be consistent, and it's actually less work. Yeah, make the website the sun that your business revolves around. So smart. So, in addition to all of this, like, really, really good \[00:44:00\] stuff that we've been talking about today, there's other topics in Kris's, um, first book, in her book that's about to launch from click to client, where You know, she's talking about like how to really uncover your unique brand story, why your website might be turning people away, like it takes her books, dig up, dig into all of this. And then, um, you know, commanding like a premium price point. All of these things. So if these are questions that you guys are having for your own business, absolutely visit Kris's website, reddoorstories. com. When is your new book launching? When it, when can we look? Yeah, it will be available within the next. Couple of weeks. It's done and we're creating, um, the audio version of it too. For all those people like me that like to digest. I love an audio book. Me too. Me too. Audible. I'm like, I'm happily paying them 15 a month for all my books. Um, I've got a backlog of credits right now. I know it's the \[00:45:00\] best feeling. Like, yes, I can. So, um, Yeah. So in the next couple of weeks, I would say the best thing to do would be to go to my website and just sign up to be notified when it comes out. And then you can choose, do you want to download it? Um, you want to buy it on Amazon or do you want to listen to the audio? And that would be at red door designs. forward slash book. Um, that's R E D D O O R D E S I G N S dot com forward slash book. You can get on the wait list for the book. I also have a brand new lead cast or Private podcast, um, that just came out this week that I would love to share with you guys. You can check that out. It's eight episodes that really like get deep into the meat, a lot of what we talked about today and then really expanding on that. So that can \[00:46:00\] be found at reddoordesigns. com forward slash profit dash stories. And, um, and yeah, if, if you're interested in working together, you can just go to my website and click on the blue button, which is book a money making messaging call with me and we'll do a free call. We'll talk about your business, where you're, where you want to be, and we'll look at your website together and I can really help diagnose like what's working in your story, where do you need things tuned up? And so it's really valuable call. Oh, I love it. We'll put the links in the show notes for you guys. So it's super easy to get to and I know I will be on the lookout for sure. I'm going to go sign up for your wait list because I would absolutely love to listen or read. I mean, I love it. Old school. Honestly, so good, but I mean, there's nothing like being able to just throw on some earbuds and go for a walk and listen to a really great book. So I'll be looking to download from click to \[00:47:00\] client. And, um, of course, yeah, you guys check out her podcast from click to client where she's got some really incredible conversations and, um, I will be on the lookout for your book and visiting your. site and just get inspired. I hope these episodes are just inspiring people. Um, anything you want to end this, close this out with? Oh, I, I feel like we covered a lot of territory as always. I just love our conversations and I'm really, really grateful to, um, be here with you and your people today. Absolutely. Well, I'll see you guys on the next episode, go connect with Kris. Get to looking at our website. Like, you know, as you're listening to this episode, you can be looking at other websites and really kind of digging in. Like, is this website doing this thing? If you don't have your own yet, you know, get some ideas. And I would highly encourage you to start really looking for these kinds of things when you're looking at other people's. Um, and then I use that same script for video \[00:48:00\] testimonials. So I'm happy to share that with your, uh, clients. Um, if you guys are interested, I'm happy to share that email testimonial script that I use to gather testimonials from my clients. Um, and then I use that same script for video testimonials. So I'm happy to share that with your clients. audience and we can put that in the show notes. Um, I'm going to just share it with you today. It'll be at reddoordesigns. com forward slash script. Perfect. I think that's amazing. And yeah, that would be such a fabulous resource. We'll add all of it to the show. There's going to be so many good things to like really go take action on from today's episode. So I love it. Well, Kris, thank you so much for being here. And I know that from click to client is just going to like go bananas. It's such like such fantastic information that business owners are just craving these days. So, \[00:49:00\] um, congrats on all of the success and everything that's to come. Thank you. Yeah. All right. We'll see you next time. All right. Thank you so much for listening to branded the podcast. Please rate and review and for more information, visit socialjanemedia. com. I'll see you soon. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/grow-a-small-business ### Title: From Solo to Success: How Kris Jones Scaled Her Design Agency 384%, with Troy Trewin & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6885689 ### Content: ## From Solo to Success: How Kris Jones Scaled Her Design ## Agency 384% ## The Grow a Small Business Podcast with Troy Trewin From Solo to Success: How Kris Jones Scaled Her Design Agency 384%, with Troy Trewin & Kris Jones Have you ever stared at a blank page, knowing exactly what you do but struggling to find the right words to explain it? Even the most talented professionals freeze when it comes to telling their own story. ? I recently sat down with Troy Trewin on the Grow a Small Business Podcast to share a turning point in my business journey that changed everything - the moment I watched a published author completely break down over writing her own website copy. That single experience led me to discover something that would transform not just my business, but my clients' businesses too. Here's what hit me hard: there's a fundamental difference between being great at what you do and being able to communicate your value. The solution isn't just better writing - it's something far more powerful. ⚡️ ? The counterintuitive reason most business owners struggle to talk about their work (hint: it's not about writing skills)  ? How one simple shift helped my clients increase their rates up to 600%  ✨ Why your expertise might actually be holding you back from connecting with clients You're already doing incredible work with your clients. You shouldn't have to become a marketing expert on top of everything else. That's why I'm excited to share the exact framework that helped me go from relying on inconsistent referrals to having clients take trains and road trips just to work with me (true story!). Tired of watching your website sit there while perfect-fit clients scroll on by?That's why I'm excited to share the exact framework that helped me go from relying on inconsistent referrals to having clients take trains and road trips just to work with me (true story!). \[00:00:00\] Welcome everyone. Today I'm interviewing Kris Jones from Red Door Designs based in beautiful Portland, Oregon in the United States. Thanks for your time today, Kris. I'm really happy to be here, Troy. Let's start with how we know each other. Leva from the podcast growth agency put us in touch and I read your background. I think we're going to have a great chat today. Yep. I know we are. Tell our audience a bit about your business, what it does and how it makes money. Yeah. I have a company called Red Door Stories and I started the company 23 years ago. So I've been at it a long time and it started out really in storytelling through design. And that was really how I got involved in the industry. Um, I spent many years working for larger corporations like Nike and Adidas. I've had clients like Jeff Bezos, um, \[00:01:00\] and over the years, I really I learned a lot working for those clients, but eventually it ended up starting my own business and naturally gravitated toward solopreneurs, small business owners, service providers, because that was really my journey as well. Like I've. I've navigated the journey of entrepreneurship and found success over the years. And now I like to help my clients do the same thing. So started Red Door Designs 23 years ago and was Really focused on branding, visual storytelling, website design. And the way it worked was I'd have a client come to me, they would hire me to do their branding in a website, and I would say, okay, your website copy is due on April 1st, and then I will start the design portion of the project \[00:02:00\] and, and I guess what happens? Cause I had a web design development company in Melbourne and it was the copy was the thing that always blew out the launch deadline or timeline. Is that what happened? Completely. Completely. Yeah. I think you're, you're psychic. Um, yeah. So this happened within a number of clients, which is why I really shifted gears. In my business, but there was one client in particular named Elise and she had a background in publishing. So she felt very confident with words and with writing and she was really excited to write her own website copy. And I said, perfect, you copy, I'll do the design and we're off and running. So her project due date was April 1st and I got a call from her that day and she'd been up like nearly all night long. She was. Distraught, um, frustrated. And she was like, Kris, I don't know what is going on, but I cannot write my \[00:03:00\] own copy. This is impossible. Like, I don't know why, because I know what I'm doing, but I can't write what I want to write. And no matter how hard I work, I'm unable to really break. Through what, what can I do to help? So I, we brainstormed, I gave her the name of a couple of copywriters. I gave her some templates to follow. I recommended she talked to previous clients and she did all of those things. Hiring the copywriters in particular, which was. Additional money that she hadn't planned on spending. And ultimately none of those things worked because in hindsight, what I realized is you can't outsource your own voice when your business is your baby. When you are the face of your business and it's an extension of you, you can't outsource your voice. It's got to really \[00:04:00\] be aligned with your voice. And so. Through That project thanks to elise and a handful of other clients that were really struggling in the same way I just And I should add to like the reality was my own website Wasn't bringing in the types of clients that and the consistent flow of clients that That I really needed. I was relying solely on referrals, which as we know, referrals are great, but they're pretty inconsistent in that piece of my business was stressing me out. Basically. And so I made it my mission. I said, I'm never going to let another client struggle with copy again. I'm going to master the art of how to tell a compelling and powerful story, both online and in, and in person. And I flew across the country for workshops. I \[00:05:00\] became one of the very first story brand guides. I just immersed myself in this work and kind of came out the other side of that and, um, began to apply story and story brand to Every project that I worked on and it was, it was really mind blowing because not only did I apply it to my client's websites, but I applied it to my own website as well. And my clients were calling me, telling me things like I'm, you know, I'm now able to charge. Six times more from what I was charging before. I'm no longer burning out. We've tripled our revenue Like it was just I was getting these calls over and over again, and it felt like you know kind of a magic bullet, um, which I Which took me a while to really believe but you know eight years in um \[00:06:00\] Into this really focus on story and my business and client temperature client, it works. And, and at the same time, it was working for me personally. Like I revamped the way that I talked about my business. I infused story into all my messaging and. People, I would get on the phone with them to talk about a project and they were pre sold. They were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when can we get started? So like the selling that I used to do was completely eliminated. Also, I was able to Charge more than I had ever charged because I was attracting a different caliber of client, and I was also able to promise much greater results. Um, and so that's kind of how the journey unfolded. Yeah, I've become a big fan of copy and copywriting in the last two or three years and absolutely loved Donald Miller's book, um, Building a Story Brand. Uh, I remember after listening to the book, \[00:07:00\] I was running, I was in Brisbane at the time, running up and down the river and got back to the hotel room, opened up my website and made all the fucking mistakes. Like just talking about myself, not about the, you know, making me the hero, instead of, as you well know, making the prospect the hero and we're the guide. And that, that framework is, is really Powerful. So I encourage listeners to grab a copy of that book for sure. For sure. Yeah. It will change the way you talk about your business and you'll never be able to kind of, it provides you with a lens for looking at your business in a way that you'll never remove that lens. Like it's a gift. Mm hmm. And maybe tell the audience about your podcast and your book. Um, I have a podcast called From Click to Client, and I have a book that is also titled the same, same title, From Click to Client. It's a mouthful. And it's, um, meant for business \[00:08:00\] owners. It's a simple guide to a story driven website that turns visitors into clients. Yep, great. Now your website looks terrific and obviously the copy is excellent. So, was it about 2014 you decided to ditch the web design and really hone in on, and niche down or niche down to helping people with their messaging and their copy? It was, I would, I would look at it more as an expansion. So, the website design became more of phase two. Um, so it, it, It widened my scope. The foundational work was always, always began with the storytelling, getting clear on the story and the messaging. And then phase two was designing and building the website. And then phase three was building out the lead magnet and the email nurture sequence. So I went from charging essentially five grand.\[00:09:00\]  For a website design to anywhere between 15 and 20 for the full funnel and the messaging. Yeah, great. Yeah. And how did you start out? Maybe go back to, you know, I know you mentioned you had, um, you know, corporate career. Well, maybe tell the audience, what was the catalyst for you to, to start your own business? Well, actually, I graduated from college with a degree in teaching. I feel like I'm a teacher at heart and I teach my clients. I, I love that aspect of it. Cause I, I want to write your copy for you and write your story, but I also want to help you understand the why behind why it works. And when I graduated from college, I realized. That I did not want to be a teacher. Um, and so I took off like a lot of Australians do, I took off to Europe for like a year, year and a \[00:10:00\] half. And while I was in Turkey, I met these two Australian women and they were both graphic designers. I'd never heard of the profession before. Like this is back in the day, like. Early, early website days, kind of back when all you needed was a beautiful website to be a legit business. Um, messaging wasn't really as necessary. And, um, and so I met these two women and one of them came back to Portland with me and I showed her around my town and I took her to Powell's and she bought design books. And I just like through osmosis really decided to go back to school for design. And, um, once I did that, like everything really unfolded really quickly. It was like, I had got it quickly. I got an internship then quickly I got hired and then quickly I got promoted to art director. And then very quickly after that, I was working at \[00:11:00\] Nike. And then after that Adidas wanted to work with me. And, and so it just, it was like. I finally stepped into the river of like what my purpose was and it just carried me down, downstream, um, to the opportunities and, and the alignment with really like my purpose. Um, it was a beautiful. It was like in hindsight, it was really beautiful how it all kind of came together. And you started in 2001. How old, how old were you then when you decided to make the jump? 2001, I was 27, I think, 28. Um, yeah, I had been working for larger corporations. It's on contract and then just decided, um, to start my own thing. And it was beautiful cause I had, I had made these relationships inside of Nike and Adidas. And \[00:12:00\] then as a freelancer, they would hire me. So it was a nice cushion, um, it was a soft way to kind of enter into things. And then I. Somebody called me from a, um, advertising agency and they needed an art director to come in one or two days a week. And so I started doing that and over the course of kind of 10 years, just had very consistent work. So it was, it was certainly meant to be, and I never really had to go through that, um, Major struggle of like not having any clients thankfully. And what was it like working with Jeff Bezos? Oh my gosh. Um, he is meticulous, uh, certainly a perfectionist as you can imagine. Um, he thinks outside the box in a big way. Um, \[00:13:00\] he has like layers of people, right. That like, it's. You work through these multiple layers and then ultimately it's like, okay, we're going to bring this concept into Jeff right now. Are you available for quick feedback and um It was it was wonderful. I mean Jeff Bezos gets a bad rap because I'm you know Mixed people have mixed emotions around him like you love him or you hate him or you kind of a mixture of both but He, at the time that I worked with him, which was like three or four years ago, um, he was on a mission to create free Montessori child care for low income families. Across the nation and so it was a really beautiful project to work on and visually very compelling and messaging was \[00:14:00\] really compelling and it was just like a feel good project so that I think that influenced my experience of working with him. Do you have some key numbers you can share to illustrate the growth of the business? The growth of my business? Yeah. Um, well there was one stat that my bookkeeper shared with me yesterday. Okay. Which was I have it right here in front of me. Actually, she said your increase Net income from this year versus last year is 384 percent growth. Wow. Fantastic. Well done. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, that's the power of story. I tell you, I tell you like it, it really works. Um, in this day and age. Everybody is inundated with information, they're bombarded, \[00:15:00\] they're overwhelmed, and story has this beautiful, um, flow to it that helps, like, helps us engage fully and feel connected in the story and kind of filter out the noise of the world, so, um, yeah, it has been, since I started integrating this work into my own business. It's just been continuous growth. And you obviously started on your own. How many full time equivalent team members are you up to now? I have a full time VA. I have a part time, um, bookkeeper. Accountant. I have a part time developer, website developer, and then I have two part time, uh, podcast scouts. So about four? Yeah, including me. Or not including me. Yeah. \[00:16:00\] Okay. Yeah, great. Yeah. When was the moment you felt like you had succeeded? Mmm. Gosh, that's a good question. You know, I think what, when it really hit me was when I When I came through that, that, that intense phase of really immersing myself and in story and applying it to my own business and really watching firsthand the results of that, um, there were a couple moments that, that I can. Reflect on one of them was within a month. I had two people, one person took the train, bought a train ticket to Portland. She wanted to meet me. She was a dentist. She wanted to meet with me and work with me and have me do her website. So that's a lot of effort, you know, to like, want to work with somebody. But that \[00:17:00\] was the power of my website was getting people excited about working with me. And so she Took the train here. And then another, um, business, it was a partnership. They both road tripped to Portland from Seattle to meet with me and talk about doing their website. And so I, I just, it started to hit me like, wow, people are really pre sold and they're just. Not only sold, but they're really excited and eager to work together and that felt really good. And then When I was pregnant with my son, who's now seven You know it a couple things happened. I Started expanding the scope of work that I was providing for my clients So it became like I said more of a 15 to 20 thousand dollar engagement. So my annual revenue Like multiplied and multiplied that year and \[00:18:00\] then. Beautifully, I had my son and I didn't have the capacity to do all the work. And so I started getting help and that was kind of building another muscle of learning for me, how to hand things off and how to delegate and that year I made more than I'd ever made in my, the history of my business. So it was a lot of learnings and a lot of. Like delightful lessons that came out of that amazing. What you can do when you learn to let go and delegate, isn't it? It's incredible. It's really, it's like, it's such a double whammy because like we resist it for a long time. And there's this belief that, Oh, I'll just do, I can just do it quicker. I can do it better. But, um, as a business owner to be able to let go, and I don't know about you, but. For myself, I \[00:19:00\] got into this work because of the freedom that it promised, or that it could provide, and often that's not what it feels like when we get into this, like we're wearing so many hats, our plates are so full, um, it doesn't feel as free as we imagined it to be, and so when you begin to delegate, that's when that freedom, I think, begins to truly kick in. being able to pick up my kid from school, um, being able to be in control of my schedule if he is sick, which I know you can relate to Troy with your daughter and, um, just being in charge of my own schedule. It's really, really, um, even if I'm, even if I decide to work a lot, I know I have the option to press pause. One of the things that I've done in \[00:20:00\] the last. Many, many years is take an entire month off and go to another country. I could never do that if I were an employee. And so things like that, being able to exit my life, press pause on the business, and then come reenter my life with fresh eyes and fresh. Inspiration and perspective, um, has been one of the best parts of being self employed. Great question for you. Number one thing you'd recommend to marketing a fast growing business? A hundred percent. It would be use story in your business and the DIY freeway or 15 way to do that is just to go buy the book, building a story brand by Donald Miller. Um, it, it truly will change your business. And, and then buy my book after that. From click, click to client. , \[00:21:00\] I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna grab a a, a copy and have a listen. Definitely. Awesome. Um, I've been right into a lot of marketing books the last couple of years. Have you read either of April Mumford's books, obviously. Awesome. Which is on positioning and the book sales pitch. I haven't. I'll send them to you. They're awesome. Um, okay. Uh, I think it compliments StoryBrand well, because her first book, obviously Awesome, um, is all about getting your positioning right. And then the sales pitch, she couldn't believe no one, you know, had the title of that book sales pitch, but she's got it. And that is also excellent. So you do the positioning first with obviously Awesome, um, work on your sales pitch and then the messaging with StoryBrand. Two. Yeah, two. Ah. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you. And, uh, comes with a, um, canvas, like a PDF you use for both books to get your positioning and your, and your sales pitch nailed. So yeah, really good resources. Very cool. Thank you for that. And how did you fund your business? \[00:22:00\] How did I fund it? Oh, well, I didn't, I, I am a big fan. I mean, the work I do is very much less is more keep it simple, you know, how to kind of. Use the power of one, whether it's one story, one offer, you know, just keep it simple. And so when I started my business, I really just, I didn't have a lot of overhead. Um, I rented an office, but I shared that office with another company. Um, I had monthly rent, I had saved up to buy a computer, um, so I didn't have to go get funding for my business, thankfully. And I kept it simple for a very long time. If you were to start up today with plenty of funding, would you go into your industry? 100%. \[00:23:00\] Yes, I would. Yeah, I really truly feel like I'm doing the work in the world that I was meant to do. Can you outline the most stressful point in your small business growth journey so audience can learn from it? Yes. Yes. Um, I would say like, as my business evolved, there was a, there was a phase early in my business where I would, I was driven by fear and I would say yes to projects that maybe I wasn't the best fit for. And I said yes to a project. It was actually like a video editing project, which was out of my wheelhouse and the client deliverables like they had to get me a bunch of files in order for me to edit and those didn't come through till like \[00:24:00\] 10 p. m. at night, and it was due the next morning, and so I edited my little heart out all night long, and I actually was, I wasn't even in my own office. I was in like This editing suite, downtown Portland all night long. And I remember rating the, um, I rated the lost and found closet because the, the air, the heat was off. And so it was really, really, really cold. And I did my best. I got through the night, but the. Project was total mess. And so I had to like, then after an all nighter going to work that day, um, to that company and just say, this is sub par. And, and, and I remember like, I remember \[00:25:00\] pulling over in my car and just crying after that 'cause I was so tired and I was also like, so defeated, So I think the, the lesson is really like stay in your own lane. Don't take projects that feel like really the things that, that don't involve, like you feeling really lit up about them and that them being in, in your zone of genius, just say no to those jobs. Other jobs will come. What area in business do you feel you've had to work on the most to add the greatest value? Mmm. Well, the storytelling piece for sure. I think that's like, that's a no brainer. But I think the other piece is, has been, like getting help. I think that was, that was Um, something that I resisted for many, many, many years and finally, you know, thanks to my \[00:26:00\] son and thanks to the growth of my business, I had to get help. And now like it's one of my favorite parts of my business, like having, knowing someone's working on my business when I'm not, it's a really, really good feeling. And then I've chosen people to work with that are really. aligned with me. And so it feels more like friendship than it does like a professional relationship. It's just, it's, it's such a delight to have people on my team that are really invested in my business and, and our growth. What have you enjoyed the least about managing fast growth? Um, I think that, you know, navigating the roadmap, you know, there is like charting, charting the path. Um, there is no, um, formula for it, um, because everyone's \[00:27:00\] different and your business is different and the way you want to grow is different. Like it's, it's such a unique journey that, um, charting that path has been. challenging, but it really is like you just put one foot in front of the other and things open up. Um, I think the other thing that came to mind when you asked that question was just like having to sift through people that weren't a good fit for me and my team that weren't a good fit for my team in order to find the right fit people for my team. I think that's been, um, a journey. Certainly. What do you love most about growing a small business? Oh, it's exhilarating. I mean, when it's when you find tools that really work and that you watch the immediate results of the work that you're doing, or the \[00:28:00\] strategies that you're implementing, and that very quickly equates to more revenue or whatever goal you're going for, um, that's really, that's really exhilarating for me. Can you repeat that question one more time? Yeah, sure. What do you love most about growing a small business? The other thing I love most about growing a small business is the clients that I get to work with, like they're, they're extraordinary people. And as I mentioned, I feel like I'm doing the work here that I'm meant to do, but I'm working with clients who are extraordinary people. Living their purpose too. And they're just so passionate about what they're doing and they just want to focus on the work and the fact that I can come in and help them do more of the work that they love and less of the marketing wearing less of the marketing \[00:29:00\] hat that they, they don't really want to be wearing. Anyway, um, but, but the quality of people that I get to work with and then getting their feedback around how things are working for them or how easily they're able to grow their business because of the work that we, we do that, like that just really lights me up. What has been the biggest mindset shift for you in your small business growth journey? My biggest mindset shift, um, that even if, this kind of goes back to getting help, um, allowing people to help me grow, even if I can do it faster and better, that, that doesn't mean that I should do it, you know, like, it's like, you got to overcome those, those beliefs kind of keep you stuck. And, um, There's \[00:30:00\] value in just like acknowledging like, okay, yeah, maybe I could do it faster. Maybe I could do it better. But I certainly, if I don't give this person on my team an opportunity to do it on their own over and over and over again, it's, I'm never going to get the help that I need. Number one habit you think a small business owner needs to develop and maintain. Wow. Um, I think, I mean, one of the habits that I guess you could call it a habit. One of the habits that I've adopted is to always ask my clients for feedback. And it's been really great because I hear, you know, Number one, like it's great to get a pat on the back. Oh, you helped me do this. And that feels good. Of course that feels good. But I think it really does keep me in touch with my clients, what they need and, um, \[00:31:00\] what their experience was, if they needed additional help in a different area, like, I just think the habit of like really keeping that conversation open. has been really helpful for me. Um, it's also allowed me to like, get a fair amount of Google reviews as well. So like that, those are kind of like the little seeds that you put in the garden that you forget about, but they really do support the growth long term and people do look at Google reviews. Um, and so it's important to like, little by little just invest in those. Little things that aren't like bright and shiny in the moment. Can you talk to how you've added people to the team? Some wins, mistakes, and advice for those listening? Can you repeat the question one more time? Yeah, sure. Can you talk to how you've added people to the team? Some wins, mistakes, and advice \[00:32:00\] for those listening? Yes. Um, I added somebody to my team. Gosh, I added, so what I really wanted On my team was the VA, um, who could rally behind me and support me in the day to day. Um, and that's what I, what I wanted. And what I ended up doing was hiring an OBM who was more high level, um, online business manager. She was more high level. And I found there was just this like ongoing frustration that I was feeling because I was wanting her to be in a different role than I had hired her to be in. And that is not on her. That is on me. And eventually, you \[00:33:00\] know, it was still a positive relationship, but it was always a source of like frustration. Eventually I found my VA. And, um, I could tell like from the first time I talked with her that she was eager to please, um, enthusiastic, um, super smart, and willing to learn, and those four qualities really helped me, like, feel confident, like, oh, this is, she, she has the potential to be a really good fit. And so, um, that's been probably the most exciting hire that I've had is just finding her because she's like my right hand woman she's on, you know, when I'm doing trainings, she's on those calls, managing the chats and, um, \[00:34:00\] she's just. A bundle of positive energy. And I think it's been really fun as, as someone who's grown a business over many, many years, mostly on my own. It's been really a breath of fresh air to, to have a team and to feel supported in that way, but also just to kind of have fun banter day to day, back and forth. What are some things you recommend to building a sustainable and kick ass culture to help with the growth? I think that, like, I'm going to bring this back to story yet again. I think the power of story is really getting clear on the problem that you solve, who you help and the success that you deliver, um, or that you guide those customers or clients, um, to achieve. And I think when you are on a \[00:35:00\] team. Or you're developing a culture when, when everyone's really aligned on the core message, the core audience, the core, ultimately, what are we really providing? What problem are we solving and what success are we allowing people to experience? Like it just. It feels good. It's not just about this job. It's about this bigger story and this bigger, um, needle that we're moving for customers or clients. Hello, audience. How you've handled balance? How I handle balance? Yeah. It sounds like you've got it nailed now. If you're taking a month off and, you know, heading to new places. Yeah, um, I have a lake house that is about an hour from Portland, Oregon. And I go out there like a couple times a month. Um, I think with, I have a seven \[00:36:00\] year old child. And so since I had him balance has looked very, very different than it did prior to that. Um, so. I feel like, you know, I don't, I wouldn't say I get the rest that I, that sometimes I crave, like on the weekends. Sometimes I feel like my job is like just the joyful, easy. Part of my life and the weekends kind of running around and entertaining a seven year old can feel harder honestly, but the way I Keep balance is I block off like every Wednesday. I block off just like it's busy nobody can book anything and like having those Days baked in really helped me feel more spacious and not like I'm going from call to call to \[00:37:00\] call. Um, it's been a really nice way to break up the week. Um, getting out of town has always been helpful. And then I am, I am like a ninja. When it comes to sleep, I, my kid goes to bed at 830 on the dot and I'm pretty much asleep between nine and nine thirty every night. And when you get good sleep, you can literally do anything in the whole wide world. Totally agree. Yep. Yeah. You don't want to see me in the morning when I've had only four hours sleep, that's for sure. And how much professional development have you invested in yourself? So much. So much. Yeah. And in 2017, um, I became a story brand guide. That was like the biggest amount I'd ever invested in myself. And that was a 10, 000 investment. And it's been a 5, 000 investment every \[00:38:00\] year after that. And then I would say my other biggest investment was with a company called Peaceful Profits, and it's. It's been, I invested with them 75, 000 and it was the best money I've ever spent. It was really great. Um, you know, as business owners, we really are inside that bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside and no one's immune to it. Even me, you know, and this is the work that I do. And so they have been a wonderful, um, perspective point. To look at my business and, and really see the greatest version of myself. And I've, I've stepped into, to that, um, with their guidance and help and encouragement. So for that 75 grand, like, was that for one year and was it like \[00:39:00\] coaching or any specific part of the business? Yeah. Um, coaching is part, definitely part of the deliverable. It's for a year. Um, part of the deliverable is they build, um, they build a funnel. For you and so they build that funnel and they manage your ads in addition to that It's like a really robust deliverable, but i've more than made up for it just by the coaching that they've provided for me We haven't even started the funnel yet because There are a lot of different components, the book being one of them, but the book is also part of that funnel. Um, so, it's been a year of really generating a lot of trainings, and Deliverables, um, and stepping into like a, a greater version of myself. Um, so all that to \[00:40:00\] say, I've more than recouped my investment and we haven't even started the funnel yet. That's great. So you've had coaches, have you had mentors along the way? I mean, I would consider my coach at Peaceful, Peaceful Profits, a mentor for sure. Um, I had an incredible mentor. When I just started out in my career, when I had an internship, um, his name is Keith Buckley, he took the time to just teach me like it real on real world projects and, um, that mentorship was. Really extraordinary. I consider Donald Miller to be a really important mentor to me in my life. Um, and he's just a steady source of like the touchstone, what's important, what matters. Um, \[00:41:00\] so I've been really fortunate in that way. Do you have a board of directors or advisors? All right, Kris, one of our final five questions. What do you think's the hardest thing in growing a small business? The hardest thing in growing a small business is figuring out how to talk about your business. Like it's really hard to talk about your own business clearly because of that bottle effect. You're inside the bottle. You can only read the, you can't read the label from inside the bottle, but also the curse of knowledge, which is really just, you've been in your industry long enough. That you've forgotten what it's like to not know what you know. And so we tend to talk over people or use industry lingo and we lose an opportunity for connection. Um, and so those two things are going on all the time for every business owner. And they're really hard to overcome \[00:42:00\] if you're trying to figure it out yourself. And. I have yet to meet a business owner who isn't struggling with this, and what's confusing about it is that people think if I just keep working at it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna solve this problem, I'm gonna be able to figure this out. And because it's not a writing problem, it's a perspective problem. Um. I love to let my clients off the hook and say, this is nothing to do with writing. This is about perspective and you could work on this another three years, but. You know, you're, you're, it's, you're not going to make the progress because you're not able to come at your business with fresh eyes and, um, and an expertise in story to really, to really piece together what is the magic and the golden thread in your story that's going to truly attract those ideal clients. Favourite business book, which has helped you the most \[00:43:00\] building a story brand. Yeah. I knew you were going to say that. Yep. Yep. Shocker. It's definitely my top 10. Yeah. Any great podcasts, online learning tools you use for your own professional development. Um, I mean, I, I am a big fan of like marketing made simple podcast. Um, I'm a, I'm listening to podcasts all the time. Um, but I'm often listening to like more story driven podcasts. Like I love ghost stories. I love like, you know, haunted stories, stuff like that. So I'm, I'm big into, um. Um, storytelling, but the business, the business podcasts I listen to are mostly marketing made simple. I'm just, sorry, just pause for a second. I'm just looking up a book. Here we go. Have you read Matthew Dick's book story, story, sell story worth to \[00:44:00\] grow your business? Nope. It's a great book. I'm about halfway through it now. I'll send that to you. I'm right. Is it stories? S T O R I E S sell. Yes, that's it. Okay. I'm writing it down. I'll shoot you a link anyway. Yeah. Oh, perfect. Okay one tool You'd recommend to help grow a small business Mmm a tool I'd recommend to grow a small business Um, I think the most powerful tool that you can create for your business is your website And you don't need anything fancy. I'm a big fan of like cloud builder websites. So just get on Wix or Squarespace or Kajabi and keep it simple, but you've got to get something online and I believe the. Really your website is the center of your marketing universe. So \[00:45:00\] when you, you know, when you are marketing point, everybody and everything to the website, knowing that that website is set up to sell and really convert new clients. Um, so. I think it's twofold. Number one, I guess the tool would be like a Wix or Weebly or Squarespace. And the real tool would be to have a website. Finally, my favorite question. What would you tell yourself on day one of starting out 23 years ago? Focus on the things that you really enjoy doing and pay attention to the clients that You really enjoy working with and just say no to all the rest. Um, that would have saved me a lot of, you know, frustration, I guess, and, uh, a lot of time. \[00:46:00\] Right. Thanks so much for your time today, Kris. Really enjoyed our chat. Congratulations on the growth, particularly over the last 12 months, 384 percent growth starting out on your own, our team of five helping, um, solo and small business owners get their messaging right. Mainly through stories and terrific work. Thank you. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/masterful-coach-with-molly-claire ### Title: Convert Clients Without the Sales Struggle, with Molly Claire & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6885726 ### Content: ## Convert Clients Without the Sales Struggle ## The Masterful Coach Podcast with Molly Claire Convert Clients Without the Sales Struggle, with Molly Claire & Kris Jones Have you ever felt like you're too close to your own business to clearly explain what makes you extraordinary? (I call this the "bottle effect" - and yes, it happens to ALL of us!) ? I just had the most energizing conversation with Molly Claire on her podcast about something that's completely transforming how my clients show up online: turning your hidden story into your strongest sales tool. What breaks my heart every time I see it: watching incredibly talented coaches and consultants downplay their expertise because they couldn't see their own value clearly. That's exactly why I created a process that's helping client-based businesses transform their websites into 24/7 client magnets. ? The "bottle effect" - why even the most successful business owners struggle to articulate their value (and my simple fix)  ? How one client went from closing 20% to 95% of sales calls using this exact framework  ✨ My proven 4-step process for uncovering the story that makes perfect-fit clients say "I need to work with you!" You're already doing incredible work with your clients. You shouldn't have to become a marketing expert on top of everything else. That's why I'm so excited to show you how to uncover the compelling story that's already there - one that attracts dream clients even while you're busy serving the ones you have. \[00:00:00\] All right, coaches. This is such a fun episode to bring you because not only is this going to be so fantastic for you as a coach building your business and how you can make It's gonna make the sales process easier for you, but also I get to have here one of my dear friends and colleagues, Kris Jones. Welcome, Kris. Ah, thank you, Molly. I am so thrilled to be here with you today. What did you like? It's so funny because this is how Kris and I first met. Um, Kris had, you had someone that you were working with reach out to me to connect us for you to be on my podcast. And then fast forward to this moment, um, Kris and I are in a mastermind together. We've done an offer together and, um, We have such a great friendship of support for each other. So it's just, \[00:01:00\] it's so awesome. And you know, for all of you listening, I think that's like, that's one of the greatest things I think about building a business that is so meaningful and purposeful and, and heart driven is that we end up connecting. With amazing people that we are so aligned with and just what a treat, what a treat. Truly, truly. Yeah. Okay. Kris. So let's talk about it. I, Kris is here because she has a new book and I can say without reservation that any of you listening, if you want clients and you want to have. It'd be easier for you to get those clients. I think everyone listening should buy this book, but we're going to talk more about what's in it. So Kris, tell my audience, um, who you are, what you do. Okay, so I am Kris, I, um, live \[00:02:00\] in Portland, Oregon. I, I love helping client based businesses get more clients on autopilot so they can really focus on the work they love. What I've noticed. After 25, 23 years of being in this industry is that when you are a self employed, you became self employed because you really love the work that you do. What you didn't sign up for is becoming a part time marketer and generating content and all this stuff and the effort that it takes to keep your pipeline full and to keep clients really coming. To you and attracting those right, right clients rather than chasing after the right clients or attracting wrong fit clients, which doesn't feel good either. So my approach is very much a less is more \[00:03:00\] approach. I really believe in using storytelling as your main strategy to authentically connect with those right clients and get them. trusting you, liking you, connecting with you and having you be the obvious choice to work with. Like they, by telling the right story, all of that happens and you're not even there because it's all on your website. site. And the idea is really that the, your website is the central hub for all your marketing. So I don't believe that you need to be everywhere. I believe you pick a couple of platforms. Maybe you enjoy podcast interviews. Maybe you enjoy social media. If you don't want to be on social media, don't be on social media. You don't have to do that. Pick a couple of things that you really love. It might be email marketing. podcast guesting. And those are your two things that \[00:04:00\] you do. And then you point everything you do points to your website is it is the center of your marketing universe. And you can confidently point people there, knowing it truly represents you and your uniqueness. And it gets those potential clients excited to work with you and turns them into paying clients. So yeah, your website really should do all that heavy lifting for you. And the beauty of that is you get to get, you get to focus on the things that you really enjoy and the work that, that really fills you up. I love it. And I know, you know, Kris is going to tell you more about her book from click to client. Uh, which I love and the thing that stood out to me as you were talking is you said that you become the obvious choice for your clients and all of you listening, think about \[00:05:00\] that. How great, I was going to say, would it be? How great will it be? When you can send someone to your website and the, the story that is there is so powerful and so connecting that they know you are the obvious, easy, no brainer choice for them. I mean, isn't that what we, that's like a dream, right? That's what we all want. And it's, it's a, it is a reality. It, it can be a reality. I've had this experience. I know you and I have worked together and it's like, When you have the right formula that understands the psychology of human beings, right? It means that people read and they feel it, they see it, they know it, and they say yes. Yeah, and it's truly psychology, like there are all \[00:06:00\] kinds of neurochemicals that get released when somebody reads your story. The bonding hormone, the dopamine comes out when they're envisioning their success. Trust is built, but it's, it's truly psychology, which is why storytelling is so powerful. It it's very easy to get caught up in trendy marketing tactics. Storytelling is what we're wired for because it's been around since the beginning of time. And we've. And so, I've always, as humans, gathered around the fire and shared stories. It's how we connect. It's how we learn. And so, that's why, as somebody who's been doing this work as long as I have, that's why I love stories so much is because it's timeless. It's truly timeless. Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm. And you know, something that's I have the, you know, privilege of knowing about you, Kris, because I \[00:07:00\] know you at a personal level is, um, it's really so exciting for you to be able to connect with people who are offering such important services. Yes. And for you to be able to plug in what you do and help them to, to have more clients, to help more people. And um, it's just a beautiful thing. And I want to mention that because I know typically those of you listening, my audience is full of coaches who are very heart centered, purpose driven and things like, you know, sales. A lot of times they don't like these words, right? Or this idea of, oh, well, we're using psychology in order to manipulate or convince people to sign up, but it's not that at all. It's really, it's really, and this is where I want Kris to tell you more about the actual process in the book, but it's really about capturing what it is that \[00:08:00\] your potential clients need to know and understand. In order to see that you can help them, which are, yes, need help to figure that out. If you are the right fit, then you are the obvious choice. I mean, it's in what you're really selling, which when you use story, you really don't have to sell, but what you're really selling is a transformation. They're going from. Somebody that they were into a new version of who they're going to become and they do that because you're helping them solve a very big problem and people, people pay money to solve problems. And this is why you're. doing the work that you do, you're creating this transformation. And so it's not manipulating people. It's truly repelling the ones that are not the right fit and attracting the ones that are the right fit. So \[00:09:00\] if they don't work with you and they are, and they want to solve this problem, they're very likely not to be able to solve the problem because we. So, we often can't solve these problems on our own. If we could, they wouldn't be out and about on the internet or asking their network for somebody that does what you do. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, Kris, tell us about um this, the the concept that you're teaching in the book because I know one thing that Kris and I were talking about before recording is this book is such an And I think this is an awesome opportunity for you because it means, summarizing your words but people don't, people can learn about this method that you're going to be talking about and they don't have to completely do it themselves and they also don't necessarily have to spend thousands of dollars to do it. This is really a chance to give people the support to work through this \[00:10:00\] process you're talking about with the support of your book. Yes. Um there's a thing that I call the bottle effect, which Really is just the fact that when we're self employed, we are inside of a bottle. And when we're trying to talk about our own business, we're inside that bottle stuck in the, in there. And we're trying to read the label of that bottle that can only be read from the outside of the bottle. And that's what I want. All the coaches listening today to really understand and let yourself off the hook. Writing for your own business is hard because of the bottle effect. It's not hard because you're not a great writer. You are a great writer. This is not a writing problem. It's a perspective problem. And that's why I do the work that I do. I get to look at your business with fresh eyes and I get to analyze your process and your uniqueness. \[00:11:00\] And there are things that are going on in your business that you don't think are any big deal. But when I look at your business with fresh eyes, I can really identify those golden nuggets of that, that golden thread in your business and bring that to the surface and highlight those things that do make you the obvious choice. So The book solves that problem because if you want to work with me one on one great, you know, it's right around a 5, 000 investment. Not everybody has that kind of a budget and yet trying to do it alone is like beating your head against a wall. It feels really impossible. So the book is a beautiful hybrid where you don't. You don't have to go it alone. You have a structure, you have a proven methodology, and you have me as a guide to guide you through my process. So you get all the benefits of mining for gold, which we'll \[00:12:00\] get into, of really uncovering your own story and up leveling your website so it can be your most powerful client attraction tool without having to work with me one on one. Yeah, I love it. And, and let's talk about mining for gold because that's like step one in this, right? Yes, step one is mining for gold and that just means that Your story is is not created. It's not invented Your story is really inside your heart and it's inside your head And it's my job to ask you the right questions to really pull the story out Out of you. It's much like, you know, digging for for gold. It's really uncovered or unearthed. And that is step one in the process. And it's, it's the most essential step in the process. Because if we don't go through the \[00:13:00\] mining for gold process, we can't do all the other steps. It's absolutely fundamental. And then I think we are trying to create it or invent it or something. And then that's just like a lot of spinning and, and, um, you know, I, I love this idea and not just idea, but I've experienced what it's like to have your help in, in pulling out that story. That's there. Yeah. Yes. So, that's step one is the mining for gold. Step one is the mining for gold and it's like, what comes out is really, you know, it's getting all that stuff That's inside you out, right? It's like getting it onto paper, getting it onto a document, and then we ruthlessly refine it. So we, we get rid of all the noise, and this, I just want to interrupt really quick. Yeah. Step two, the refining is step two. Step two is refine. So the four steps are mine. \[00:14:00\] Refine, design, and then sign new clients. So those are the four steps. Step two is refine. And that's where you really, you take that gold that we've excavated and you polish it and you refine it and you edit out the noise and you really start to craft and formulate the structure of your story. So it's, um, It's the phase where we start to put the puzzle pieces together of your story and the flow of it and really it begins to take shape. Yeah. And in the, and in the book there's a template, like a tool that you can download and use, so you're not, you know, you're not winging it. I'm truly supporting you through every step. Yeah, yeah. You know, and as you were talking about, well, I wanna talk about both of these steps really quickly, and then, \[00:15:00\] and then I wanna, um, hear about step three. Um. But when you were talking about mining for gold and, and pulling out what is already there. I know this was my experience in, in doing this process with you, but I'm curious if, if you see this as common, I would imagine that it is that a lot of times that gold that you're extracting. I don't see it as a big deal. I don't even notice what it is because it just seems very normal to me, but you from the outside and the process you use. You're actually helping your clients and like, you know, for example, those of you coaches listening, it's this book can help you to see something in you that's so phenomenal and unique and fantastic, but you don't recognize it as that because it seems normal. Is there any truth to that? You're nodding your head. Oh, completely. No, I think that's, that's one of one of the. \[00:16:00\] biggest, um, benefits of the process is that, you know, by asking specific questions, the right questions that really pull that information out of you, you begin to be able to see your business with a fresh perspective. And it's so, it's so common that we do our work and we think that we do it like everybody else. And we think we don't have like a, a signature process. I have yet to meet a client that doesn't have a signature process. They just don't know it yet, right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. We go through the details and, and it's there. We just have to really define it. Yes. I love that kind of articulating that we already do something. We already have this thing that we do. We just haven't. Seen it clearly. Yeah. We're just, we're so close to our own business. We truly are. \[00:17:00\] That bottle metaphor is so powerful because it just, nobody is immune to that. We're all inside our own bottle. We're all brilliant, but we're so close to ourselves that we can't really identify or even articulate that brilliance. And you know, this is really a big thing that happened. With Andrea, who is also part of our mastermind, and she went through my process. I mean, she knew she provided a really Incredible transformation for her clients, but she didn't, when she'd get on sales calls and when she'd talk about her work, she would fumble around because she didn't really have the words to truly articulate what she did. And. The most powerful transformation that happened is that she, she really began to understand the power of her work and she was able to confidently communicate that \[00:18:00\] and that confidence changed everything for her business. She went from a 20 percent close rate to a 95 percent close rate. So basically. For every 10 calls she got on, she got nine and a half clients. This is kind of wild. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. Yeah. Okay. So, so I wanted to ask you that about, about the mining and then the refining, you know, when you were talking about that. It's like, I just had this thought come to me. My opinion personally is that that is part of your superpower is I feel that you have a gift for being able to see. The ways to refine and sort and move things around that. It just, I don't, I don't know if it's in part your inherent gifts, your experience, all of it, but I feel like that's really where the magic is that comes from you in this. Yeah. Yes, \[00:19:00\] definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. I really am a less is more person. I believe in every area of my life. Um, but it is a really powerful thing to apply to story because, you know, in this day and age, we're just inundated with information and what a gift to take the time to simplify. Your messaging. So when people come to your website, they're not overwhelmed. They actually get to take a deep breath because they're, they're calm and they can move through your story and digest what you're saying, because you're not, you're not bombarding them with like more information and long paragraphs of text. And so it is a really important, I mean, all the, all the steps are very important, but the editing down. Um, is very important because if you don't do that, \[00:20:00\] um, people aren't going to take the time to actually read a long web website there. They scan your website. So it actually needs to be written in a way that a scanner can digest the information. Yeah. It's like, it's like what's coming to my mind is we clean it up. We have what's most important so that everything that's there has a purpose and it does it well and we don't have any of the excess. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Every word is guilty until proven innocent. So we, we really, we really, we're ruthless about this. And in the book, there are examples. I show you exactly how to edit. You have to edit it down. Yeah. You're not, um, you know, if you're, if you're scattered or overwhelmed and having a hard time, you know, editing it down, um, it just, it degrades the trust that could potentially be \[00:21:00\] built between you and the visitor on your website. Like if you're not clear about what you do, if you haven't really taken the time to, If you don't clarify your story and streamline it, then somebody that comes to your website is, is, isn't going to have the same level of respect, um, that they would if you did, it's such a big deal. I mean, this is a little bit of a side note or tangent, but you know, when I'm, when I'm training my master coaches to be able to be. The most powerful, the most effective, right? Do the deepest and best work with their clients. The first thing we talk about is building that sense of trust, right? That trust and safety and that report. It absolutely has to be there because no matter when, no matter how many other great skills I, you know, equip my coaches with, and no matter how great I develop them, if they can't establish and have that trust first and foremost, it's not going to do much good. And, and really that's what I hear you saying here, right? Like. Part of \[00:22:00\] the refining process and having this really like less as more powerful page is actually doing that first step of building some trust and some confidence between client and, um, consultant or coach or, or whoever is, yes. Yes, a hundred percent. I like to think of your website like a first five or 10 minute coffee date. So if you're going to sit down with somebody new, you're going to sit, you're going to, you're going to take the time to really connect with them first. So create that connection. Build that trust between you. Then you can open up and start sharing. But what happens so often on coaching websites in particular is we get excited about what we do and the way we solve our clients problem that they land on the website. site and we start talking immediately about how we can help and what our offer is and \[00:23:00\] how to solve their problem. But when you think back to like a coffee date, it's like sitting down to a coffee date and saying I can solve your problem and, and this is how I do it. And they're like, wait a minute. And we haven't even taken the time to understand if I'm having that problem, number one. And so there's really a time and a place to talk about yourself and the way you solve the problem. But we really want to, just like a coffee date, we want them to come to our website. We want to take the time to connect with them and really build that trust and let them know that they matter, their struggles matter, their success matters more. Then we do in our wonderful way of solving their problems. So we have to take that time, those first few minutes to truly establish the connection first, because people don't work with the best of the best. They work with the person they feel the most \[00:24:00\] connected with. And that's what, what story has the power to do that connection, that trust. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to just take a moment, those, uh, coaches that are listening and you maybe don't like sales, you don't like marketing, you're uncomfortable with it. You just want to coach, you know, that you are good with your clients. I want you to take note of this, that what people, the people that you want to work with, right. That we want to work with are people that we feel connected with. So those of you listening that are great with your clients. You're already great with connection, with being real, with caring, and that is really What you need in order to convert clients. So that's a little bit of a side note, but very much related as well to, to what Kris is saying. Um, okay, Kris. So I feel like I could talk to you all day long, but I want to hit on these. I want to touch on these \[00:25:00\] last couple of steps and, um, I am really excited. Of course, we're doing this interview ahead of time before the book is available. But when this is airing, if you're listening to this. The book is available. So Kris is going to tell you where you can get it. So I'm really excited for everyone to be able to get their hands on it, um, and dive into it. So, but in, in just this last couple of minutes, tell us about those next two steps and, and how, how they can really make a difference for someone listening. Yes, absolutely. So we've gone through the mind process. We've gone through the refine process and the importance of those. Step three is design. And that's really taking your story. Now that your story is compelling, it's streamlined. That's really taking that and And putting your story into your website builder and beginning to add design elements that \[00:26:00\] really bring the story to life visually. Our brains process images so much faster than they read words. So we really want to use that in our favor and use images that are really aligned with the story and bring it to life. Because, you know, When you're on line, you've got words and you've got design and what happens so often is we either invest in our words or we invest in a beautiful design, but we don't really We don't really make sure that they're both working together in tandem, in alignment, in concert together. And when you have both of these things congruent and telling the same story both visually and with the words, that's when you really bubble up to the top of the internet. And you do not have to be a brilliant designer to implement the principles that I'm, uh, \[00:27:00\] sharing in the book. They're, they're very tangible and they're very simple and they will make your website look like it was designed by a professional. Um, one of the things I talk about is typography and just Simple, simple things that you can apply to your website with your typography, with your fonts, AKA your fonts, um, font sizing, font styles, font choices, like just making changes in that area can really elevate your design. Photography, like I mentioned, super important. And I show you exactly how to use photography and choose the right photography. Both photography that represents your clients, but also your own headshots and what works as far as photos of yourself. Um, and then, uh, the third thing that I talk about is really about the power of white \[00:28:00\] space, right? So like, you know, somebody is, you're in a conversation and they're just. talking, talking, talking, and they're not letting you get a word in edgewise or they're not like taking a pause, it's really hard to digest what's going on. And it doesn't feel like a conversation. And that's kind of what happens when we fill our websites with, you know, we fill every aspect of our website with either a photo or, or text, um, there's no time for our brains to absorb and for us to, for the website to really become dynamic. Yeah. Yeah. And then the last step in the process is sign. And this is where you just reap all the rewards of step one, two, and three. You just get to sign new clients, but you've got the story. And not only Yeah. You know, I really believe once you do this work, once you have a clear and \[00:29:00\] compelling story on your website, it doesn't just live on your website. It lives the way you talk about your business in person, on your sales calls, on your social media, anywhere you show up, this story is going to be repeated and your. The story that we craft together in the book, it really does work a lot like an accordion, so there are shorter versions of it that might be more like a, a two sentence, you know, answer to the question. What do you do? It's still your story, just a shorter version of it. A longer version might. Be on your website and then like maybe a mid sized version might appear on social media or in a blog post or in a video script. So once you have that foundation, you can really repurpose it in so many ways. So that's a huge relief. Number one, we don't have to keep generating new content. And \[00:30:00\] Sign is really fundamentally about converting those clients. So you get on a call with them and they're pretty much pre sold. They're just needing to get the logistics about what it's like to work with you. And you can echo that same story and the transformation that happens for them. And then they're excited to work with you if they're a great fit client. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it's, it's really true. I just, I know I've experienced this. When I have purchased something, when I have signed up for something and, um, in implementing much of this in my own business, right? Where people are saying, yeah, just send me the link. Just tell me what to do now. I already know this is what I need. I feel it. I see it. I know it. And, and it's, it's really possible. So I'm so excited that you have put these amazing foundational pieces in this book. Tell my audience, where can they get this book? \[00:31:00\] Tell them the link, tell them all the things. So, to get the book, all you have to do is go to my website, which is It's RedDoorDesigns. com forward slash book. So everything will be there on the book and then all the resources that I talked about are all free and there's a link inside the book that you can get to access all those free resources, but everything can be found there. Also, RedDoorDesigns. com, um, you can also learn about working with me and. Awesome. And your podcast. Yes. And I have a new podcast. The book is called From Click to Client and the podcast is also called From Click to Client. And I have incredibly enriching, fun, insightful conversations with fellow entrepreneurs and business owners. And we talk all about how to \[00:32:00\] tell a clear and compelling story that gets you more clients. Awesome. Awesome. Kris, thank you so much for being here. Everyone go check it out, buy that book immediately. I know there will be some great nuggets in there for each of you. And I, I know one of the words that I heard Kris say, and I've kind of latched onto is Foundational pieces. I think these are some foundational things that once you have them, you will be able to, um, like Kris was saying, utilize the same elements, the same components, the same story in, in various ways in your business. And I, I just love that. And I'm just so excited about all of it. So Thank you. Thank you for having me, Molly. All right. I'll talk with you all next week. Have a good one. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/authors-edge ### Title: The Secret tor Crafting a Brand Statement That Sells, with Allison Lane & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6899714 ### Content: ## The Secret for Crafting a Brand Statement that Sells with Kris Jones ## The Author's Edge Podcast with Allison Lane The Secret tor Crafting a Brand Statement That Sells, with Allison Lane & Kris Jones Ever notice how the hardest thing to write is your own story? (Yes, even for professional copywriters like me!) ? I was recently a guest on The Author's Edge podcast with Allison Lane, and we had the best conversation about why most service providers struggle to explain what they do – and more importantly, how to fix it in just 20 minutes. Here's the reality: When someone can clearly explain what they do, it's not because they're smarter or better at "winging it." It's because they've taken 20 minutes to plan their answer. ? The "inside the bottle" problem that makes it nearly impossible to see your own value clearly ⚡️ Why your website should make your CLIENT the hero (not you) – and how this simple shift increases your bookings ? My exact formula for creating a two-sentence statement that makes people say "I need that!" instead of "that's nice..." The truth is, you don't need 17 different ways to describe what you do. You need ONE powerful story that works everywhere – your website, LinkedIn, email signature, and especially when someone asks "what do you do?" at a networking event. Running a service-based business is challenging enough. You deserve a website that works as hard as you do! Allison: \[00:00:00\] Welcome, welcome to the author's edge. I am your host, Alison Lane, and I'm telling you, I'm a longtime marketer, lifelong publicist. And I always have had the skill to see the strength, the kernel of awesomeness. In everyone, and I think as a kid who was an introvert who had a lot of trauma, I stood in on the periphery and I watched a lot of things and it's my joy to help all of you see the strength and the wisdom and the awesomeness in yourself that I see and my guests see. If you're struggling with how am I going to package what I know or how to position myself and you want to work with me directly, I'm at lane lit. com or send me a note. Alison at lane lit. com. This is not hard. I am here for you. Now let's get to the podcast. \[00:01:00\] This week's focus is on you telling your story so that you can position yourself as the answer to someone's problems. And when I thought about who I needed to have on, only one name came to mind because It takes a certain type of clarity to get to the few words that can capture the transformation that you can make in the world. And for that reason, Chris Jones is joining us from Red Door Designs. She's a StoryBrand certified guide. That means she's an expert copywriter and helping people define and communicate the benefit that they put into the world, the value that other people get. So it's not. I need to build my personal brand and I am an expert copywriter. It's I, Alison, help women get book deals \[00:02:00\] and launch their books with success. Did you hear me say I'm an expert marketer? No, because it doesn't matter. I could be a juggler and it doesn't matter. The end result is what matters, and Chris is the jam about doing this, and she's gonna share her wisdom with us today. So welcome, Chris Jones! Thank you for being here, Chris Jones, famed story brand, certified guide, expert copywriter, and just to let everyone know, we became friends because I reached out to you because I heard you on a podcast. Allison: In a nice way, I reached out to you through your website as a cold call and said, I really like what you are putting out there and I'm picking it up what you're laying down and I think we should be friends.  Kris: And here we are. Yeah. Clearly there was something about you that I realized this was not \[00:03:00\] my typical cold email. Allison: the norm. Yeah, exactly. Right. Like people need to know what you know. Not just because we hear copywriter and nobody really knows, like, how does that apply to me? But I think you have such a way of helping authors, particularly because that's who I work with, discover how to position what they do and what the result that other people get from what they do. Allison: way they can stop describing themselves as, I'm a writer, like, No, everyone's a writer. Or every psychologist, we don't want to know your job title. So let's just start off like this. What is the biggest mistake that authors and aspiring authors are making? When it comes to building or establishing \[00:04:00\] themselves as a leading voice? Kris: That's such a good question. I mean, very clearly, the biggest mistake is that they haven't taken the 20 minutes that it takes, maybe 30 tops, to just plan what they're going to say when somebody asks What do you do? What are you working on? What's the book about? And what happens is, you know, we're excited about our book project. We want to talk about it. But then when somebody asks about it, number one, we cringe. Number two, we freeze. Number three, we spit out a two word answer. Number four, we spit out an 80 word answer and we lose them completely. And so I think just a little bit, let me put it this way. When somebody is able to answer. That question in a very concise way. It's not because they're smarter or that they're better at winging it. It's because they've \[00:05:00\] taken 20 minutes to plan how they're going to answer that question. They've printed it out and they've memorized it. And then it's kind of become part of their cellular memory. So they don't have to stress anytime they get that question. Because let me tell you, whether you're writing a book or you've just launched a book. Or you have a book under your belt, you're going to get that question a bajillion times. So you might as well get excited when you get that question, because you know exactly how to answer it. Allison: So well put, because everyone gets asked, what are you writing? And what they launch into the plot of the book, well, I'm really writing about and it's like they're trying to brainstorm it right there, because you can tell because they're looking at the sky. And, like, in hopes that, like, a bird will bring them, like, a,  Allison: guess, just a messenger bird of, like, girl, it's gonna drop right here, girl.\[00:06:00\]  What are you writing? We don't want to know, really, what you're writing, because the question that it's up to us to do the, like, literary limbo, the mental gymnastics, To translate, what are you writing, is how will I benefit from what you're doing?  Kris: Why does it matter to me? That's what our brains are constantly scanning our environment every day, all day, every day. How am I going to survive? How am I going to thrive? How can I conserve brain calories? Thinking and figuring things out requires a lot of brain calories to be burned. And our brains don't like to exert energy. And so when we're able to spoon feed these answers to people, our brains just soak it up because we're like, number one, I get it, right? You don't lose people. They're like, I get it. I'm tracking, I'm absorbing what you're saying. I'm picking up what you're \[00:07:00\] putting down. And number two, it's relatable. I can understand why does that matter to me? Or why would that matter to maybe, maybe not me personally, but my partner or somebody that I love? Allison: Right. And so then when you know that that's the mistake, then what should people be doing in order to be prepared for that? It's the first question you get as soon as you want to hire a social media manager. They say what your profile needs, you can't just say mom and coffee lover. Okay, thank you for that. Kris: Well, it's very meta because we're talking about authors who have written a book or are writing a book. And what I'm suggesting people do is tell the shortest story you've ever told about your book, about what your book is about. And the way you tell the shortest story ever told, it can \[00:08:00\] be two sentences long at the most. Every story, and you probably know this as an author. Already, but every story, every movie, every book begins with a hero that has a problem. They don't know how to solve. They are out and about. They're looking for a guide, whether that be a book or a coach, or they're looking for a guide who can help them solve this problem and overcome it so they can ultimately experience success. And that is the formula for literally every story. And that can be a 300 page book all about that. And you go in deep into that journey and all those details. And of course, there's more to it. You know, but fundamentally, those are the core components. And you can also follow that same formula when you answer that question. What are you working on? What's your book about? What do you do? Where you always begin with the hero's problem. What's \[00:09:00\] the problem that's happening that you're solving by writing this book? And what is the benefit that readers are going to experience because of reading the book? So it's literally that simple. I mean, it just doesn't have to be that hard. It just doesn't. And it shouldn't be. But it  Allison: is hard because it's not hard for you because you do this, but it is hard because usually Aspiring writers have a full time gig doing anything else. They are urban designers or librarians or teachers or psychotherapists or students. They don't do this. They're used to having a conversation, but not marketing themselves. And that's the big change now, right, is that you're expected to not just say here's the plot of what I'm writing about, but here's how it matters, \[00:10:00\] right, because no one's going to do that for you. What is the biggest change you've seen recently about branding or landing this one or two liner? Kris: not really. I think ultimately, like the fundamentals of story never changed, number one, and the core problem that I solve as a business owner really doesn't change because the problem is we're so close to our own work and we're so close to our own selves. It's like we're inside of a bottle trying to read a label that can only be read from outside. And so that is the core problem that whether you're an author or you're a business owner, whatever you're trying to write about when you're just so close to it, it feels really, really hard. It really does. And so I can \[00:11:00\] come in and I can read the label of your bottle. And really help you have clarity about it. That being said, I have a free tool. I think the reason why this feels so hard for people, number one, they're trying to do it themselves, which it's always going to be harder when you try and do it for yourself. It doesn't mean it's impossible. It's just hard. Number two, when you're trying to write for yourself about your own work, you pull up a blank Google doc and. It's daunting. You don't know where to begin. And so I have a resource that's free. It's a five minute video. I'm holding your hand through it so you don't feel like you're alone. And then there's a worksheet there that allows you to get all those brilliant ideas out of your head and onto paper and organize them into two simple sentences. Allison: so helpful. And \[00:12:00\] this is, for me, who knows you and can text you at any time and say, I need a message, zhuzh, please. But I still use that tool. So the thing is, I think, too, the expectation that whatever your statement is, whether it's in your author bio or on your website or on your socials, that we need to be knowledgeable enough, that those same 12 or 13 words. Show up in all the places, even, you know, in your LinkedIn title where I still see a lot of people saying like senior manager, like, no, nobody cares. And nobody's noticing when you go from senior manager to super senior manager or assistant professor to tenured professor, like no.  Kris: LinkedIn is such a ripe opportunity to zhuzh up your profile and really stand out because just like. Websites, so many \[00:13:00\] people are doing it wrong or doing it in a very bland, boring way. And you know, with 30 minutes in Canva and a little bit of time into your message, you're going to really stand out on LinkedIn and it will give you a return on the investment for sure.  Allison: Yes. And it'll help you decide who you are today. And then you can delete all the skills that you accrued 17 years ago.  Kris: Right. Right. The other really cool thing about doing this foundational work around your messaging, and you touched on it a moment ago, is you do it once and then it's like the lazy woman's marketing. Like, you do it once and then you copy and paste it on your LinkedIn, in your email signature, on your website. Right. And verbally, when you're talking to people, you just. Use it over and over and over again, because it's so clear and it's so compelling and people can very easily understand it and it gives \[00:14:00\] you way more confidence, but it also is way less time than trying to generate new answers and new content and new social media. Every day it's that hamster wheel that I'm on a mission to really help people get off of the hamster wheel and do the work that you really love and don't feel like you have a constant homework assignment hanging over your head.  Allison: Yes. Yeah. So, so smart. And I would say one of the benefits that I learned from you, that as an expert marketer, you know for yourself, but you still hang on to your favorites like, Oh, I love the describe myself this way and this way. No, you get one and then everything else can go in a file that you don't look at anymore because rewording yourself. Is just muddy as the waters.  Kris: It does. It kind of degrades the message over time and you kind of \[00:15:00\] lose whatever that initial spark or strategy was. And I think the beauty of working with a partner or hiring somebody to come in and help you is even if you have good copy, sometimes you just need someone to go, this is right. This is right. Don't stop rethinking this. Stop reworking this. This is right. And I think that happens even in like interior design. Sometimes you just need an interior designer to come in and be like, yeah, that's a terrible chair. Or this art here is really working, but not knowing is Right. If you don't know what an A plus is  Allison: Sometimes you just need to have someone say door A. Yes, totally. Yeah. You know, that's the shade that you need to go with.  Kris: Yeah. Right. And here's why door \[00:16:00\] a is the right choice. And here's why I wouldn't recommend this other option. So you understand, I mean, the idea is like you want great copy, but you also We want to know the strategy behind why this is working. And it's an art form, but there's such a science behind it. And there's such strategy behind why copy works. And it's really helpful when we know the why behind it.  Allison: Yeah. Chris, what is a common myth that people believe about nailing their personal brand statement? Um, Yeah. That they need to rethink.  Well, the thing that comes to mind is, I hear this a lot, and what I hear is, I don't have a story. My story is boring. You know, it just. Other people have good stories, \[00:17:00\] but I don't and that goes for your brand statement or your story or whatever like my mind's boring Everybody has the story everybody has a compelling brand statement, and it's my job to really pull it out of you I know the questions to ask to really pull out your most compelling story your most compelling Brand statement and put it together in a way that helps you stand out and really differentiates you from everyone else in your industry, which is the hardest part. And also helps you become more memorable. And that's like the other hurdle that we all face is how can we be remembered? How can we be top of mind when people have this problem? So everybody has a story. Everybody has a compelling story and an interesting story and That's what I want people to really know. Allison: Yeah, so listener, I know you're driving around in your car and you're thinking I'm in the CVS \[00:18:00\] prescription line and I'm listening to that and I've got a lot of things and I believe her, but by the time I sit down and I think about developing a brand statement for the work that I'm doing, or I'm finally leaving the university and want to become a speaker, but now I have to build a website, you do need it. That statement and you do have a story and it's not I am a former professor who taught 20th century literature to wherever I mean that's not it. And you can use Chris's tool and it'll be so much easier. But Chris, we're always learning based on what has worked but what is a. tactic that has been popular, that's no longer really useful or working in 2025? Kris: Mm. Well, I think there's a lot of like what I call \[00:19:00\] bro marketing scarcity tactics that were used a lot. And I think everyone is just fed up with that. Like the timers, they got to check out, this is your only chance to do this. In marketing in general, I'm not a fan of scarcity tactics. They're still used quite a bit. And I would say they're often effective, which is why they're used, but what a terrible way to start out a relationship with somebody, you know, or to get a new student or a new buyer to pressure them into it and make them feel like. They have to do it now or it's never going to be an option again. I think that that's one thing that I just think is like played. And then the other thing that I think is people get confused about is like the difference between the narrative that you're telling about your business or your book and \[00:20:00\] how to really tell a story about that. So people want to read it or they want to publish it or just to get people on board with it. That story that I'm talking about is really a narrative that. It's about you inviting your potential hero into a story with you where they can envision themselves as the hero and they Envision you as their guide. The guide is the strongest character in every story. So that's the type of story I'm talking about and there's some confusion around like What I call the founder's story, and this is really how your background, your professional background, how you got to where you are and all of that good stuff, that story is more for you than it is for anybody else. I'm not saying that you shouldn't write your founder's story, but if you want to write a story that will get you a return on investment. That \[00:21:00\] will help build your career professionally. I'm talking about this type of narrative that's different from a founder's story. So the other third tier of that question is really making yourself the hero of your own story. You're the Yoda, you're not Luke Skywalker. Yoda is the strongest character in the story. There's only room for one hero in every story. And so when we make ourselves the hero of our own story, Number one, we're painting ourself as a weak character. Number two, we're kicking our potential reader, our potential client out of this story with us. So they literally can't engage. And you've probably experienced this subconsciously, not really realizing that when you went to a website and you're like, huh, okay, yeah, she's cool. She seems smart and nice, but I'm going to keep looking. And the reason you bounced from that website is because they were likely making themselves the \[00:22:00\] hero of their own story and you didn't feel a connection. When you're the hero of their story and they're the guide, there's this beautiful connection that begins to build and trust. begins to build and you all of a sudden really can envision yourself working with this person or reading their book or however they want you to engage, and then you're motivated to take that next step, whether it's by the book or whatever else that you want them to do. A lot of authors want people to read their book. Because they have a story to tell and they want to help people and they know that their story can impact readers. But what happens is they don't really think beyond that. And the book is really a vehicle, of course, to help people. But then after they read your book, they're like, I know her. I like her. I trust her. I want more from her. I want to work with her. I want her to coach me or I want her to help me \[00:23:00\] overcome my version of this problem. And so it's It's absolutely essential that you have some forethought around that and that you build, even if it's a one page website, that you build a site that you can guide people to in the book. A website address in the book will change the trajectory of your career. It will make you a lot of money, most likely. And then people can go to your website and get a feel for how you want to show up for your clients. Do you want to. creative group program. Do you want to just do one on one coaching calls with readers? How do you want to help them? That's kind of up to you, but It's kind of a shame if you're going to go to all the effort to write this book and not then continue to hold the hand of the person who's read it and give them more of what they're looking for, which is more of you.  Allison: When your website is written in a certain way, it \[00:24:00\] could be powerful, but it repels people when we see language. That is like any one of these things, I'm on a mission to, are you doing it? Or are you on a mission? Enjoy your mission. You've provided me no confidence that you're actually doing the thing. You're just giving it an old college try. My purpose is, that's super, but are you doing it or are you still trying? Or that's why I established this effort. Like, great, but I want you to skip ahead. But when you confirm for people that you're just still trying, and you're even spelling it out for them, I'm trying to do this. Well, are you doing it? No? Great. Click to the next one. So don't do that. State your strengths. Chris, do you have any? I'm sure you see a lot of those types of phrasings. \[00:25:00\]  Kris: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just human nature. We want to be humble, we want to be modest, but ultimately we're insecure often and we use language that diminishes ourselves. And I think that you don't have to wait to feel confident in order to change that. You have to actually change that. By having the words and having a plan and knowing exactly what to say, because you've planned it and you've memorized it. And it doesn't mean you're going to sound like a robot, right? That's what we're afraid of. We're like, we just want to be authentic and organic, but those authentic and organic people have planned what they're going to say. And then as you memorize it, you can tweak it or make it kind of. Tweak it a little bit when it comes out, depending on the situation, but the confidence comes from really Taking the time to know how you're gonna answer these questions that usually make you \[00:26:00\] cringe or usually make you feel Uncomfortable or you find yourself diminishing yourself. It's not okay. Don't do it And if you do diminish yourself,  Allison: Yes. And I know you don't want that. Don't do it! Alright, that was our PSA, that was our kick in the tuckus for you're a big effing deal. Accept it. You're not trying to do it, you are doing it. Right. We believe in you. I want to say something, because you have inspired me, and I was talking to a group of clients just yesterday, and I actually cursed, which I never ever do in my group. I mean, I do like a well placed curse word. But, you know, here's the thing about aspiring authors. These are often experts in their field, and they're just hoping that their debut book is that people buy it. \[00:27:00\] My view is, I can always see that of course people are going to buy it, this thing is going to take off, we need to prepare for the success that I know is going to come, and they have a hard time seeing past, but I just want the book to be a success. But your book is the product and you are the brand. So you've got to trust, trust me when I say this is going to blow up and we need to prepare and that people might not want to buy your 27 book. They might want to buy your 2, 700 personal coaching program. And which one do you want? You know? Right. Let's assume a yes. Allison: And assume the positive, because I have seen this happen for every one of my clients has another door open that they are flabbergasted  Allison: People will want to come to your site and they will want to engage. They will want to sign up for emails. No, do not make them send you an email, like contact me. Kris: And don't create a general newsletter. Give them something truly helpful and really valuable and just start there. The other thing is like, if you don't want to become a coach or consult or whatever, people are going to want you to come and speak. So charge 5, 000 for every speaking gig that you do. Allison: If you don't create something in advance, people will want to pick your brain and picking your brain costs money. Because it's your time, and those people are not your friends. They're not alike. Well, I pick my brain too, you know? That's different. They're going to want to pick your brain, no matter what. So prepare for that. And prepare for the \[00:29:00\] fact that they want to know the bigger picture of what you do for them. Not just, I've written this one book.  Kris: Yeah, and you don't have to figure it all out right now. Have your website built, have one thing that would be fun for you, and it might just be a 30 minute or a one hour discovery call, and maybe that's paid. And then once you talk to a couple dozen people, it's going to be clear to you what they're really craving, what they're really needing, and then you can design. Your service around that and that's another way to go just lay the groundwork You don't have to figure out everything ahead of time But be prepared as prepared as you can and then follow those breadcrumbs  You are Excited to read what's a book that's on your to be read list  Kris: Oh my gosh, you're gonna laugh, but my \[00:30:00\] friend loaned me The Red Tent and I have not read it yet. It's really good. I know. I know. It's like, it's there. It's waiting for me. Donald Miller just came out with StoryBrand 2. 0. I have not read it yet, but it's literally on my nightstand and I can't wait to read it because he wrote it. He came out with StoryBrand seven years ago. And a lot has changed, a lot has changed in seven years. So I'm ready to dive into that and I have the hard copy right there on my nightstand.  Allison: We will put both of those books in the show notes, links to them so that people can easy access. One of the easy things that we do on this podcast is curate people's to be read lists because it's so much easier to get a recommendation than it is to go scroll through the Barnes Noble website or go to your indie bookstore and look it \[00:31:00\] on the shelves like, what do we really want? Allison: That's why I recently, now, if anyone's following me on social, I have a weekly. Here's books I loved this week.  Allison: Three books. I do read more than three books a week because I'm insane. And my mom taught me to speed read when I was four.  Ooh. Gimme gimme. From Click to Client by Chris Jones. Really? Yes. Jones! Yeah. RedDoorDesigns. com forward slash book. You can go there and get that. And then I also just came out with a private podcast you can sign up for that really delves deeper into everything we talked about today. And that can be found at RedDoorDesigns. Allison: Well, thank you for that. Before we call this podcast complete, what's one thing you want to leave people with today?  Kris: Ooh, have fun doing this. Enjoy it. Like, follow the things and do the things that you really enjoy. And lean into that because when we're doing our own thing and we're paving our own way, we can feel like we have to do everything and wear all the hats and you just don't. You are totally in control and follow the things that compel you.  Allison: Exactly. I love it. Thank you so much, Chris. This is great. And for anyone who wants to connect with you. At RedDoorDesigns. com we'll have all the links that we talked about in this show notes. Thank you for sharing your genius and your \[00:33:00\] kindness with everyone who has such a story to tell, such a message to share, and it only becomes wisdom when you share your knowledge. Kris: People need to hear your story and it deserves to be told and it deserves to be heard.  Allison: Well, slam dunk. What a mic drop moment. Like, how? Yeah. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/what-is-a-storybrand-script-unlock-the-secrets-of-effective-messaging ### Title: What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging ### Page ID: 6937940 ### Content: # What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging ## Check our other articles ## Understanding the StoryBrand Framework ## The Power of a Structured Narrative ## Crafting Your Own StoryBrand Script ### Step 1: Mine for Unique Stories ### Step 2: Refine Your Narrative ### Step 3: Design Visual Elements That Enhance Your Message ### Step 4: Sign Clients Through Effective Storytelling Strategies #### Understand Your Audience's Needs #### Engage Emotionally #### **Highlight Transformations** ## Implementing Your Story Across Platforms ### 1\. Website Content ### 2\. Social Media ### 3\. Email Sequences ### 4\. Video Content ### 5\. Podcasts and Webinars ## Case Studies: Real-Life Transformations With The Power Of A StoryBrand Script ### 1\. Dominick Nusdeu, Fitness Expert ### 2\. Andrea Giles, Coach ## Conclusion ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### What is a StoryBrand script and why is it important for businesses? ### How does the StoryBrand framework enhance marketing efforts? ### What are the steps to crafting my own StoryBrand script? ### How can visual elements amplify my StoryBrand message? ### Can you provide examples of businesses transformed by using a StoryBrand script? ### What strategies can I use to implement my StoryBrand across different platforms? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging Effective messaging has the power to transform your business. I learned this firsthand when I struggled with inconsistent income and relied heavily on referrals. My breakthrough came when I embraced the principles of storytelling in marketing. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration So, what is a [StoryBrand script](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/what-is-a-storybrand-brandscript)? It’s a crucial element in the **StoryBrand by Donald Miller** framework. This script helps clarify your message, making it easier for clients to understand how your services can solve their problems. Key takeaway: A well-crafted StoryBrand script not only enhances client communication but also drives business success. By focusing on *your unique narrative*, you connect with potential clients on a deeper level, leading to increased engagement and sales. To master the art of storytelling in marketing, consider exploring some [powerful copywriting secrets](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-sells) that can significantly boost your business strategy. Additionally, joining the [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) could provide you with transformative insights on business storytelling and brand messaging. If you're looking for immediate results, implementing the strategies from our [Freedom15 program](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/freedom15) can turn Instagram into a selling machine while allowing you to strategically take a year off posting. For more resources and tips on copywriting, don't forget to check out our [free resources](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/free-resources-copy). Building a StoryBrand requires understanding the key principles of storytelling in marketing. According to Donald Miller, effective communication hinges on the ability to create a clear narrative that resonates with your audience. The [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand) emphasizes seven essential elements: This structured approach helps businesses clarify their messages and connect on a deeper level with their target audiences. By centering the narrative around the customer, you shift focus from what you offer to how you can solve their problems. To fully leverage this framework, consider [hiring a StoryBrand guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide). Such a certified guide can help you clarify your message and connect with your customers more effectively. Crafting your messaging within this framework allows for authentic connections, transforming prospects into loyal clients while ensuring they feel understood and valued. Your story becomes a bridge, leading them toward solutions tailored to their needs. Moreover, implementing the StoryBrand framework can significantly enhance your marketing strategy. As Kris Jones suggests in his article about [turning scattered marketing into one powerful story](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/wantrepreneur), this transformation could help entrepreneurs scale from 30K to 300K months with less effort. In addition, using the StoryBrand framework can also improve your sales conversion rates. For instance, one coach managed to increase his sales call closing rates from 20% to 95% by [crafting a signature story that converts](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change). Finally, if your website is currently losing clients due to confusing navigation or unclear messaging, it might be time for a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover). This makeover could turn your website into a 24/7 sales machine while allowing you more time to focus on what truly matters in your business. A structured narrative is more than just a story; it's the backbone of your marketing efforts. When you adopt a **StoryBrand script**, you create a framework that guides your messaging, ensuring it resonates with your audience. Here's why this matters: Imagine standing in front of your ideal client. With a clear and compelling **StoryBrand script**, you articulate not just what you do, but how it transforms lives. This clarity can set you apart in a crowded market, leading to stronger engagement and increased conversions. However, crafting such a narrative requires skill and expertise. This is where [elevating your website copywriting skills](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/talk-with-renee-dalo) comes into play. By exploring expert tips and strategies, you can transform your website copywriting and attract your ideal clients effortlessly. Every business has a treasure trove of stories waiting to be discovered. These narratives can make your brand stand out in a crowded marketplace. **Storytelling as strategy** is essential when creating a compelling StoryBrand script. Here are some techniques to help you uncover those hidden gems within your business: Through these techniques, you'll find that storytelling isn't just an addition to your marketing toolkit—it's integral to crafting a message that resonates deeply with potential clients. By mining for unique stories, you set the stage for a compelling narrative that captures attention and inspires action. This foundational step is crucial as you continue refining your StoryBrand script, ensuring it aligns with your brand identity while addressing the needs of your target audience. Refining your narrative involves polishing your story structure for coherence and appeal. This process ensures that your message flows smoothly, captivating your audience from start to finish. Here are key strategies to consider: Crafting a compelling narrative lays the groundwork for a powerful StoryBrand script, enhancing connection with potential clients. Aligning visual elements with your StoryBrand script elevates your messaging. Consider these aspects: When these elements harmonize with your messaging, they create a cohesive brand identity. This is where [web design](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/web-design) plays a crucial role, turning your website into a 24/7 sales machine while boosting profits. Understanding your audience's needs will guide these design choices, making them not just aesthetic but functional in engaging potential clients. Moreover, the magic of impactful website copy cannot be understated. As discussed in this insightful conversation between Rachel Brooks and Kris Jones, [elevating your brand story](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/confident-woman) through expert advice can significantly transform your business narrative. Finally, remember that creating a story-driven website not only enhances user experience but also serves as your best salesperson. Learn more about this effective strategy from Kris Jones himself in his guide on how to [turn your website into your best salesperson](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/branded-2). Converting prospects into clients hinges on **persuasive storytelling techniques**. It's essential to focus on building trust and addressing objections within your narrative. Dive deep into what your potential clients truly desire. What problems do they face? Use stories to create an emotional connection, showcasing how your solution can resolve their pain points. Share testimonials or case studies that illustrate the positive outcomes others have experienced after engaging with your services. By weaving these elements into your [StoryBrand script](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/), you not only captivate but also guide prospects towards signing with confidence. Moreover, to unlock business growth, consider exploring the [storytelling secrets](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it) shared by Red Door Designs CEO Kris Jones in the She Built It Podcast. Here, you will find practical tips on creating engaging stories that hook your audience and boost sales. Additionally, if you're looking to enhance your brand's storytelling to captivate and convert ideal clients, delve into the [compelling sales copy strategies](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head) discussed by Kris Jones and Marion Wagner. These insights could significantly improve your approach towards crafting persuasive narratives. Remember, a confusing website can lead to losing potential clients. By utilizing the [StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/thankyou), you can transform your website into a 24/7 sales machine. This allows you to focus on what truly matters while simultaneously boosting profits. Repurposable storytelling is key to maximizing the impact of your StoryBrand script. Consistent messaging across various channels not only reinforces brand recognition but also expands your reach. Here are some effective strategies: Integrate your StoryBrand script into every page. Use it in headlines, service descriptions, and about sections to create a cohesive narrative that guides visitors through their journey. This approach can transform your website into a 24/7 sales machine, allowing you to focus on what matters while boosting profits. Utilize snippets from your script for posts, stories, and ads. Craft engaging visuals that reflect your story’s essence, ensuring each platform showcases the same message while adapting to its unique format. Incorporate elements of your narrative into email marketing campaigns. A compelling story can nurture leads and maintain interest over time. Create video presentations or homepage videos that tell your story visually. This approach engages viewers and builds trust more effectively than text alone. Share your journey and insights using the StoryBrand framework as a guide. Authentic storytelling resonates with audiences, establishing a deeper connection. By aligning all platforms with your StoryBrand script, you create a unified brand experience that captivates your audience and drives action. For instance, [Andrea](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrea) successfully implemented these strategies, resulting in significant client transformation. Similarly, [Shonda's](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-shonda) experience further illustrates the effectiveness of this approach. If you're interested in achieving such results, consider exploring how [Red Door's StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/work-with-me) can help you stop losing clients with a confusing website and turn it into a powerful sales tool. Businesses that have embraced the StoryBrand script often see significant transformations. Here are a couple of inspiring examples highlighting their remarkable results: After crafting his StoryBrand script, Dominick achieved a staggering **95% success rate** in sales calls. His clear, captivating narrative resonated with potential clients, turning them into eager buyers. By focusing on his unique transformation journey, he built trust and rapport effortlessly. For more insights on how the StoryBrand approach transformed Dominick's business, you can check out this [detailed case study](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-donald). Andrea's experience showcases how storytelling can boost confidence and convey expertise. By implementing her StoryBrand script, she connected deeply with her audience, leading to increased engagement levels. Her story didn't just sell; it engaged and inspired action. These transformations are not isolated incidents. They illustrate the profound impact a well-crafted StoryBrand script has on business communication. With increased close rates and heightened client interest, the power of storytelling in marketing becomes undeniable. Whether you’re just starting or looking to refine your existing narrative, these examples show how effective messaging can revolutionize your business success. Additionally, the application of the StoryBrand principle is not limited to for-profit businesses. Non-profit organizations can also benefit significantly from this approach. A recent post highlighted some of the best [StoryBrand non-profit websites](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples) which serve as excellent examples of how storytelling can enhance engagement and drive action in the non-profit sector. The **power of work** lies in confident communication. Understanding *What is a StoryBrand Script* can be a game-changer for your business. With practice, anyone can become a master storyteller. You have the tools to transform your messaging and elevate your business to new heights. Take that first step today. Your story is waiting to be told—let it resonate and drive success! A StoryBrand script is a structured narrative that helps businesses clarify their messaging and connect with their target audience. It plays a crucial role in the StoryBrand framework developed by Donald Miller, enabling effective communication that can transform client interactions and drive business success. The StoryBrand framework integrates key principles of storytelling into marketing strategies, allowing businesses to clarify their messages. By understanding their audience on a deeper level, companies can create compelling narratives that resonate with potential clients, ultimately enhancing engagement and conversion rates. Crafting your own StoryBrand script involves several steps: 1) Mine for unique stories within your business; 2) Refine your narrative for coherence; 3) Design visual elements that enhance your message; and 4) Use effective storytelling strategies to sign new clients. Each step focuses on understanding audience needs and utilizing storytelling techniques. Aligning visual elements such as typography and color schemes with your StoryBrand narrative can significantly amplify its impact. Effective design creates a cohesive brand identity, making your message more memorable and engaging for potential clients. Yes! Many businesses have experienced remarkable transformations after implementing a StoryBrand script. These case studies often highlight increased close rates and improved client engagement levels, demonstrating the effectiveness of structured storytelling in marketing. To implement your StoryBrand consistently across various marketing channels like your website and social media, focus on repurposable storytelling strategies. This includes maintaining a unified message and brand identity, which reinforces recognition and expands your reach to a wider audience. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) 1. **A Character**: Your customer is the hero of the story. 2. **A Problem**: Identify their pain points that your business can address. 3. **A Guide**: Position your brand as a trustworthy advisor. 4. **A Plan**: Provide a clear roadmap for how clients can engage with you. 5. **Call to Action**: Encourage potential clients to take specific steps. 6. **Success**: Illustrate what success looks like for them after engaging with your services. 7. **Failure**: Highlight the consequences of not taking action. - **Clarity**: A well-defined narrative simplifies complex ideas. Your message becomes straightforward and easy to digest. - **Connection**: Stories evoke emotions. They help potential clients see themselves in your narrative, fostering deeper connections. - **Compelling Offers**: By outlining challenges and solutions, your script positions you as the guide, making it clear how you can help. - **Reflect on Your Journey**: Consider the challenges you've faced while building your business. Sharing personal experiences can create a relatable narrative that resonates with your audience. - **Identify Client Transformations**: Think about the clients you've served. What changes did they experience after working with you? Gather testimonials and case studies. These stories showcase the impact of your services and build trust. - **Explore Team Experiences**: Your team members might have unique stories related to the business. Their perspectives can add depth and authenticity to your brand narrative, making it more engaging. - **Analyze Customer Feedback**: Look for recurring themes in reviews or feedback from clients. These insights often highlight what sets you apart from competitors and can guide the development of your StoryBrand script. - **Create a Narrative Map**: Visualize the key moments in your business journey, marking milestones and pivotal experiences. This map can serve as a foundation for organizing your story effectively. - **Understand Your Audience's Needs**: Tailor your story to address their pain points and desires. What keeps them awake at night? - **Utilize Storytelling Techniques**: Incorporate elements like conflict, resolution, and emotional triggers to engage your audience effectively. - [**Clarity is Key**](https://www.betterup.com/blog/how-to-be-a-good-storyteller): Remove any jargon or complex language. Simplicity helps your message resonate. - **Typography**: Choose fonts that reflect your brand's personality. A playful font may attract a younger audience, while a sleek font can convey professionalism. - **Color Schemes**: Colors evoke emotions. For instance, blue often signifies trust, while red can create excitement. Select colors that resonate with your story and audience. - **Imagery**: Use images that reinforce your narrative. Authentic visuals connect better than stock photos. - Embrace the journey of crafting your own narrative. - Apply the principles discussed throughout this article. - Remember, storytelling doesn’t require perfection; it requires authenticity. 1. Unearth your unique stories. 2. Connect deeply with your audience. 3. Inspire action through engaging narratives. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog ### Title: StoryBrand Website Tips & Resources | Red Door Designs ### Page ID: 6938145 ### Content: # Resources to help you optimize your StoryBrand website *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - StoryBrand Strategy Tips - Articles - From Click to Client Podcast - Interviews Featuring Kris Jones - Client Transformations - 1 - [2](https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog?page=2) - [3](https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog?page=3) - … - [5](https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog?page=5) - 1 - [2](https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog?page=2) - [3](https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog?page=3) - … - [5](https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog?page=5) - 1 - [2](https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog?page=2) - [3](https://www.reddoorstories.com/blog?page=3) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/the-art-of-storybranding ### Title: The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ### Page ID: 6940732 ### Content: # The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ## Check our other articles ## Understanding the StoryBrand Framework ## Designing a StoryBrand Website That Converts ### Essential Elements for Success ### Leveraging Storytelling Techniques ## Key Features for Success in Your Sales Funnel ### 1\. Awareness Stage: Focus on education ### 2\. Consideration Stage: Provide solutions ### 3\. Decision Stage: Create urgency ## The Power of Customer Feedback in StoryBranding ### 1\. Informs Your Messaging ### 2\. Identifies Pain Points ## The Benefits of Working with a StoryBrand-Certified Agency ### 1\. Expert Guidance ### 2\. Personalized Help ### 3\. Streamlined Process ## Real-Life Success Stories from Business Owners Who Transformed Their Brands with StoryBranding Strategies ### Dominick Nusdeu #### Business Transformation: #### Results: ### Andrea Giles #### Business Transformation: #### Results: ## Conclusion ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### What is the StoryBrand framework and why is it important for businesses today? ### How can I design a StoryBrand website that converts visitors into customers? ### What are the key components of a successful sales funnel using the StoryBrand approach? ### Why is customer feedback crucial in improving website messaging? ### What benefits can I expect from working with a StoryBrand-certified agency? ### Can you share examples of businesses that have successfully transformed their brands using StoryBrand strategies? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging The StoryBrand framework has changed the way businesses connect with their audience. In today's digital world, where attention spans are short and competition is tough, being clear is crucial. This framework focuses on: Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration A well-designed website is the foundation of this approach. When combined with effective storytelling techniques, it becomes a powerful tool for **business growth**. Imagine your website not just as an online presence but as a dynamic storyteller that guides potential customers through their journey. By clarifying your message and addressing customer needs, you open the door to increased revenue. A compelling website doesn’t just attract visitors; it converts them into loyal customers ready to engage with your brand. To achieve this transformation, consider using powerful copywriting secrets that can significantly improve your business strategy. [Elyse Archer and Kris Jones share invaluable tips on engaging your audience effectively](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-sells), which can greatly increase your conversions. It's also important to avoid the common mistake of having a confusing website that drives clients away. Instead, you should aim to create a site that works as a 24/7 sales machine. This is where the [StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/work-with-me) comes in handy. By crafting compelling stories for your website, you not only make it easier for users to navigate but also increase your profits. Real-life success stories are powerful testimonials to this approach. For example, [Andrea's transformation](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrea) and [Shonda's client transformation](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-shonda) show how implementing these strategies can lead to amazing results. The **StoryBrand framework** is a powerful tool designed to clarify your messaging and create a strong connection with your customers. It revolves around several key components: Crafting a *clear and compelling brand message* is crucial. Customers are bombarded with information daily; a concise message cuts through the noise. When your audience understands exactly what you stand for, they are more likely to engage and trust your brand. Understanding the **customer journey** enhances this process significantly. Mapping out each stage—from awareness to decision—allows you to tailor your messaging effectively. By addressing these inquiries, you can create content that resonates deeply with potential customers, guiding them smoothly through their decision-making process. This approach fosters loyalty and drives conversions, turning visitors into lifelong advocates for your brand. Moreover, transforming scattered marketing into one powerful story can be achieved through the StoryBrand framework, which has helped entrepreneurs scale significantly with less effort. This is a strategy that [can replace all marketing efforts](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/wantrepreneur) with a signature story. Additionally, it's important to remember that every story should ultimately lead to sales. The StoryBrand framework not only helps in crafting a compelling narrative but also in [turning that story into sales](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change). For those looking to enhance their online presence without overwhelming their audience with constant posts, strategies like the [Freedom15 system](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/freedom15) can be incredibly beneficial. Finally, if you're struggling with writing compelling website copy that resonates with your audience, there are expert resources available such as this podcast episode on [elevating website copywriting skills](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/talk-with-renee-dalo). Creating a website using the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/what-is-a-storybrand-brandscript) requires attention to essential design elements that enhance user experience and drive conversions. A well-structured site does more than just look good; it tells a story that captures your audience's attention and guides them toward action. Incorporating storytelling into the layout and content of your site can significantly increase customer engagement. Here’s how: By focusing on these elements and techniques, your StoryBrand website will not only attract visitors but also convert them into loyal customers. To achieve this, consider leveraging professional [web design services](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/web-design) that specialize in the StoryBrand framework. Identifying your *target audience's needs* at each stage of the sales funnel is essential. Each phase – awareness, consideration, and decision – requires tailored marketing materials that speak directly to your prospects. Here’s how to align your content with their needs: Use blog posts, infographics, and videos that introduce your brand and highlight common pain points. The goal is to attract attention and build trust. Case studies, testimonials, and detailed product descriptions should illustrate how your offerings solve specific problems. This helps prospects visualize their success with your product or service. Offer promotions, limited-time discounts, or exclusive deals to encourage immediate action. Clear calls-to-action (CTAs) are crucial here. Integrating *storytelling* into your funnel process fosters deeper connections with prospects at every touchpoint: By focusing on these features within your sales funnel, you create a seamless experience that not only attracts but also converts potential customers into loyal advocates for your brand. Additionally, leveraging insights from industry experts like [Kris Jones](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it), CEO of Red Door Designs, can provide practical tips on creating engaging stories that hook your audience and boost sales. Collecting and analyzing **customer feedback** plays a crucial role in enhancing your branding efforts. It offers real insights into user experiences and preferences. Ignoring this valuable information can lead to missed opportunities for connection and growth. Here’s why it matters: Direct feedback reveals what resonates with customers. This insight allows you to refine your messaging, ensuring it aligns with their needs and expectations. Understanding customer pain points helps you address specific issues within your website and branding strategy. This approach fosters trust and demonstrates that you genuinely care about their experience. To effectively improve your website messaging based on real user insights, consider these practical strategies: Investing time in these strategies not only strengthens your messaging but also builds a community around your brand, leading to increased loyalty and revenue growth. Embrace customer feedback as a cornerstone of your StoryBranding journey. Moreover, consider leveraging the power of storytelling in your website design. A [story-driven website](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/branded-2) can work 24/7 as your best salesperson, significantly enhancing user engagement and conversion rates. By integrating customer feedback into this storytelling framework, you can create a more personalized and impactful user experience that resonates with your audience, ultimately driving growth and success for your brand. Collaborating with a [StoryBrand-certified agency](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand) offers numerous advantages for your branding journey. Here’s how they can enhance your business: Certified agencies have a deep understanding of the StoryBrand framework and its intricacies, ensuring that your branding efforts are precise. Strategies tailored to your specific business objectives result in effective messaging and design that resonate with your audience. Working with professionals simplifies implementation, saving you time and reducing the learning curve. Investing in this partnership improves your ability to connect deeply with customers while optimizing your website for conversions. A certified agency not only brings expertise but also encourages creativity, helping you stand out in a competitive market. For example, a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover) can transform your online presence into a powerful sales tool. Additionally, the principles of StoryBrand can also be effectively applied to [non-profit websites](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples), giving them clear direction and impactful messaging. The power of the StoryBrand framework is best illustrated through real-life transformations. Dominick, a digital marketing consultant, faced challenges in articulating his brand message. By applying the [StoryBrand principles](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/click), he redefined his narrative. After implementing clear messaging on his website, Dominick experienced a 250% increase in client inquiries. His story resonated with potential customers, establishing trust and credibility. As a wellness coach, Andrea struggled to connect with her audience. Utilizing [StoryBrand strategies](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/) allowed her to clarify her offerings and address customer pain points directly. Post-rebranding, Andrea’s client base doubled within three months. Her compelling storytelling and improved website design engaged visitors effectively, leading to higher conversion rates. These examples highlight how strategic application of the StoryBrand framework can lead to impressive business transformations. Clear messaging not only attracts attention but also fosters lasting connections with customers. The journey of Dominick and Andrea illustrates that when you align your brand narrative with customer needs, the results can be transformative. For more insights into business storytelling and brand messaging, consider listening to the [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) hosted by LaChelle Wieme & Kris Jones. This podcast provides transformative insights that empower entrepreneurs to achieve success. Using storytelling can change the way you do business. A well-told story not only grabs attention but also speaks to your audience on a deeper level. An improved website experience encourages potential customers to form an emotional connection, building trust and loyalty. This connection results in more sales and better relationships. In today's competitive online world, it's important to stand out. The StoryBrand framework gives you the tools to make your message clear and connect with customers in a meaningful way. Your story is powerful. Use it wisely, and watch your business grow. The StoryBrand framework is a marketing approach that emphasizes clear messaging and effective storytelling to connect with customers. In today's digital landscape, it helps businesses craft compelling brand messages that resonate with their target audience, ultimately boosting revenue and enhancing customer engagement. To design a StoryBrand website that effectively converts visitors, focus on essential elements such as clear messaging, user-friendly layout, and engaging content. Incorporate storytelling techniques throughout your site to create a compelling narrative that guides users through their journey and drives conversions. A successful sales funnel using the StoryBrand approach involves identifying your target audience's needs at each stage of the funnel. Tailor your marketing materials accordingly and integrate storytelling into various touchpoints to foster deeper connections with prospects, ultimately leading to higher conversion rates. Collecting and analyzing customer feedback is essential for refining your branding efforts. It provides valuable insights into how users perceive your messaging, allowing you to make data-driven improvements that enhance clarity and effectiveness, ensuring your website resonates better with your audience. Collaborating with a StoryBrand-certified agency offers personalized help and expert guidance in implementing the StoryBrand framework. These agencies have specialized knowledge in crafting effective brand messages and designing websites that convert, helping you achieve optimal results for your business. Yes! Many business owners, including Dominick Nusdeu and Andrea Giles, have experienced remarkable transformations by applying the StoryBrand framework. Their case studies illustrate how effective storytelling and clear messaging can lead to significant business growth and enhanced customer engagement. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) 1. Crafting a clear brand message 2. Understanding the customer journey 3. Using storytelling to create engagement 1. **Character**: Your customer is the hero of the story, not your brand. Understanding their desires and challenges sets the foundation. 2. **Problem**: Identify the problems your audience faces. This step ensures you address genuine pain points. 3. **Guide**: Position your brand as a knowledgeable guide that offers solutions and support. [Hiring a StoryBrand guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide) can significantly enhance this process by helping you clarify your message. 4. **Plan**: Provide a clear plan that outlines how customers can overcome their problems with your help. 5. **Call to Action**: Encourage specific actions that lead potential customers toward success. - What questions does your audience have at each stage? - How can you provide value through storytelling? - **Clear Brand Message**: Your homepage should immediately communicate who you are and how you can solve your customers' problems. Use concise headlines and subheadlines to clarify your value proposition. - **Call-to-Action (CTA)**: Make it easy for visitors to know what steps to take next. A prominent CTA button should stand out on the page, leading users toward desired actions like signing up or making a purchase. - **User-Friendly Navigation**: Simplified menus help visitors find what they need quickly. Organize content logically, ensuring critical information is just a click away. 1. **Visual Hierarchy**: Use images, videos, and graphics to illustrate your brand story. Visuals can evoke emotions, making your message more relatable. 2. **Customer Journey Mapping**: Design your website with the customer journey in mind. Anticipate their questions at each stage and provide informative content that addresses those inquiries. 3. **Social Proof**: Testimonials, case studies, or success stories build trust and credibility. Showcasing real experiences from satisfied customers reinforces your brand's value. - **Personalization**: Share stories that resonate with potential customers’ experiences. Relatable narratives evoke emotions and make your brand memorable. For instance, [Donald](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-donald) and [Mark](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-mark) are two clients who successfully transformed their businesses by incorporating storytelling into their branding strategy. - **Visual Content**: Use engaging visuals to complement your storytelling. Infographics or short videos can convey complex messages quickly, capturing attention while guiding prospects through their journey. - **Follow-Up Stories**: After the initial contact, continue the narrative through email campaigns. Share updates on new products or success stories from satisfied clients to nurture leads. 1. **Surveys & Polls**: Regularly engage with your audience through surveys or polls. Ask open-ended questions to gather detailed feedback on their experiences with your brand. 2. **Website Analytics**: Use analytics tools to track user behavior on your site. Identify which pages perform well and which ones need improvement based on bounce rates or session duration. 3. **User Testing**: Conduct usability tests with real users navigating your site. Observe their interactions to uncover confusion points or areas for enhancement. 4. **Customer Interviews**: Schedule one-on-one interviews with loyal customers to gain deeper insights into their perceptions of your brand. - **Increase business revenue** by using effective storytelling techniques in your website design. - **Connect with customers** through clear messaging that focuses on their journey and needs. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples ### Title: The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ### Page ID: 6940755 ### Content: # The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ## Check our other articles ## Understanding the StoryBrand Framework ### 1\. Focus on the Donor ### 2\. Clarity Over Complexity ## The Benefits of Using StoryBrand for Nonprofits ### 1\. Improved Clarity ### 2\. Enhanced Simplicity ### 3\. SEO Improvement ### 4\. Increased Conversion Rates ## Crafting a Donor-Centric Website with StoryBrand Principles ### 1\. Impactful Donation Page ### 2\. Persuasive Language ### 3\. Strong Calls to Action (CTAs) ### 4\. User-Friendly Design ## Case Studies: Inspiring Nonprofit Websites Using StoryBrand ### 1\. PCC Friends ### 2\. New Story Charity ### 3\. Rescue: Freedom International ### 4\. World Concern ## Practical Tips for Implementing StoryBrand Principles on Your Nonprofit Website ### 1\. Know Your Audience ### 2\. Focus on a Single Message ### 3\. Use Donor-Centric Language ### 4\. Craft Concise Messaging ### 5\. Incorporate Visuals Wisely ## Working with a Certified Guide: Elevating Your Nonprofit Website's Effectiveness with Expert Support ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### What is the StoryBrand framework and how does it benefit nonprofits? ### Why is message clarity important for nonprofit websites? ### How can StoryBrand principles improve a nonprofit's website conversion rates? ### What are the key elements of a donor-centric nonprofit website? ### Can you provide examples of nonprofits successfully using the StoryBrand framework? ### How can a certified guide help improve my nonprofit's website effectiveness? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging I'm **Kris Jones**, a StoryBrand Coach based in Portland. My expertise lies in assisting nonprofits in utilizing storytelling as a powerful tool to effectively engage with their donors. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration The [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/wantrepreneur), created by Donald Miller, offers organizations a straightforward way to convey their mission. This framework is particularly valuable for nonprofits aiming to establish connections with potential supporters. Why is it so important to have clear messaging? Because it grabs the attention of donors and builds trust, making them more inclined to support your cause. A compelling story not only resonates but also motivates action. By using effective storytelling techniques, nonprofit websites can become captivating platforms. By incorporating powerful narratives into your site, you can: By prioritizing the needs and emotions of your donors, you can establish a deep connection that inspires them to take action. This is where the [StoryBrand BrandScript](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/what-is-a-storybrand-brandscript) comes into play—transforming your website into a 24/7 sales tool while you concentrate on what truly matters. The [**StoryBrand framework**](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change), created by Donald Miller, offers nonprofits a clear path to effective messaging. At its core, the framework emphasizes *message clarity*, enabling organizations to communicate their mission in a way that resonates with donors. Here are the key principles: Nonprofits need to position donors as heroes in their stories. This means understanding their motivations and desires, then crafting messages that speak directly to those emotions. A clear message captures attention quickly. Donors often face information overload; simplifying your narrative can foster trust and engagement. When it comes to brandscripts, nonprofits typically choose between: Emphasizing a donor-based brandscript allows organizations to create targeted messages that resonate deeply with potential supporters. By embracing this technique, nonprofits can transform their websites into powerful storytelling platforms that inspire action and drive donations. The ability to convey a compelling story aligned with donor interests enhances connection and support for your cause. Moreover, integrating strategies from the [Freedom15](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/freedom15) system can further amplify these efforts. This StoryBrand signature story-selling system provides a structured approach to turning social media platforms like Instagram into effective selling machines while allowing organizations to take strategic breaks from posting. Implementing the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand) brings a wealth of benefits to nonprofit organizations. By focusing on *clarity* and *simplicity*, nonprofits can transform their messaging, making it more engaging for potential donors. Here are some compelling reasons to adopt StoryBrand strategies: Clear messaging allows donors to understand your mission quickly. When your audience knows exactly what you stand for, they are more likely to connect emotionally and take action. A streamlined message cuts through the noise. Donors appreciate concise information that speaks directly to their motivations and concerns. This simplicity fosters trust and encourages engagement. A clear and well-structured website naturally aligns with search engine optimization (SEO) best practices. Keywords that resonate with your audience can boost your visibility online, attracting more visitors who are searching for causes like yours. Websites designed using StoryBrand principles often see a remarkable uptick in conversion rates. When visitors find it easy to navigate, understand your mission, and feel compelled by your story, they are more likely to donate. Adopting these strategies not only clarifies your message but also amplifies its reach. With a donor-centric approach, nonprofits can create websites that resonate deeply with their audience while driving impactful results. To further enhance the effectiveness of these strategies, consider tuning into the [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) hosted by LaChelle Wieme and Kris Jones. This podcast offers transformative insights on business storytelling and brand messaging, empowering entrepreneurs to achieve success. Moreover, if you're looking to turn your website into a powerful fundraising tool, learn how to create a story-driven website that works 24/7 with the guidance from Kris Jones in this article on [how to turn your website into your best salesperson](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/branded-2). For nonprofits seeking a comprehensive website overhaul, understanding the necessity of a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover) could be the key to unlocking greater donor engagement and support. Creating an effective nonprofit website requires a focus on donor needs. Here are key elements to consider: This is the heart of your site. It should be easy to navigate, visually appealing, and include clear information about how donations will make a difference. A well-designed donation page reduces friction and encourages giving. Your copy should resonate with potential donors. Use emotionally charged language that paints a vivid picture of the impact their contribution can create. Share stories that evoke empathy and inspire action. Clear CTAs motivate visitors to take immediate action. Phrases like "Join Us in Making a Difference" or "Donate Now to Change Lives" create urgency and encourage clicks. Position these CTAs prominently throughout your site to guide users toward donation. Ensure your website is responsive and mobile-friendly. A seamless user experience increases engagement and leads to higher conversion rates. By integrating these elements, you create a donor-centric website that not only attracts visitors but also converts them into supporters. The [StoryBrand principles](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/work-with-me) enable you to clarify your message, engaging potential donors through storytelling while addressing their motivations directly. This thoughtful approach transforms casual visitors into passionate advocates for your cause. For instance, the transformation experienced by [Shonda](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-shonda) and [Donald](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-donald) after implementing these principles is a testament to their effectiveness. Examining how nonprofits have effectively implemented the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples) reveals their unique approaches and impressive outcomes. Here are some standout examples: This pro-life nonprofit uses storytelling to connect deeply with their audience, emphasizing emotional narratives that resonate with potential donors. Their clear messaging highlights the impact of donations on real lives, drawing supporters in. Focused on providing 3D-printed homes for the homeless, New Story Charity employs visuals and compelling stories on their website. They articulate a powerful vision, making it easy for visitors to understand their mission and feel compelled to contribute. By showcasing firsthand accounts of individuals impacted by human trafficking, this organization creates an urgent call to action. Their website effectively communicates the dire need for support while maintaining an engaging narrative that inspires empathy. As a Christian humanitarian organization, World Concern's website leverages storytelling to illustrate the transformative power of donor contributions. They present clear, relatable content that appeals directly to the heart of potential supporters. These examples demonstrate how integrating StoryBrand principles can lead to more effective nonprofit websites. Each organization successfully captures attention through clear messaging and impactful storytelling strategies, ultimately driving donations and fostering lasting connections with their audiences. To achieve similar results, nonprofits can leverage [compelling sales copy strategies](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head) that enhance brand storytelling, captivate audiences and convert them into ideal clients. Implementing StoryBrand principles can transform your nonprofit's website into a powerful tool for engagement and donations. Here are some actionable strategies to help you get started: Conduct surveys or interviews to understand donor motivations. What drives them to give? Tailor your messaging based on their values and interests. Clarity is key. Distill your mission into one compelling statement that resonates with donors. This message should be prominently featured on your homepage and throughout your site. Shift the focus from your organization to the impact donors can make. Use "you" instead of "we." For example, instead of saying, “We provide meals,” say, “You can feed a family.” This creates a sense of personal connection and urgency. Keep your content short and impactful. Use bullet points or short paragraphs that highlight key information. Avoid jargon; plain language will resonate more effectively with potential supporters. Choose images that reflect the stories you want to tell. High-quality visuals that showcase real people affected by your work can create emotional connections and enhance understanding. By focusing on these core strategies, you can create a donor-centric website that not only informs but inspires action, ultimately driving more support for your cause. To further enhance your website's effectiveness, consider leveraging storytelling as a strategic tool. As highlighted in this insightful [She Built It Podcast episode featuring Red Door Designs CEO Kris Jones](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it), storytelling can significantly boost engagement and drive donations. Implementing these [StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/thankyou) techniques will help transform your website into a 24/7 sales machine, allowing you to focus more on what truly matters while increasing profits. Collaborating with a [**StoryBrand Certified Guide**](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide) can take your nonprofit website to new heights. These experts specialize in helping organizations like yours leverage storytelling to maximize impact. Here’s how working with a certified guide can improve your nonprofit website effectiveness: Investing in a partnership with a StoryBrand Certified Guide transforms your website into a powerful tool for change. By tapping into their expertise, you amplify your ability to connect and inspire action among potential donors. The StoryBrand framework, developed by Donald Miller, focuses on creating clear messaging that resonates with donors. For nonprofits, this means crafting a narrative that emphasizes donor-centric communication, helping organizations engage effectively and foster trust with potential supporters. Message clarity is crucial for capturing donor attention and establishing trust. A clear and concise message ensures that visitors understand the nonprofit's mission and how they can contribute, leading to increased engagement and donations. Implementing StoryBrand strategies enhances clarity and simplicity in messaging, which positively impacts search engine optimization (SEO) and leads to higher conversion rates. An effective website design that communicates compelling stories encourages visitors to take action. A successful donor-centric nonprofit website includes an impactful donation page, persuasive language, and strong calls to action. These elements motivate visitors to engage with the cause and make contributions that support the organization's mission. Yes! Nonprofits like PCC Friends, New Story Charity, Rescue: Freedom International, and World Concern have effectively implemented the StoryBrand framework on their websites. They showcase unique storytelling approaches that have led to remarkable results in donor engagement and fundraising. Working with a certified guide who specializes in StoryBrand principles can elevate your nonprofit's website by providing expert support in strategic design and copywriting. This collaboration helps leverage storytelling power to better connect with your audience and enhance overall effectiveness. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Clearly communicate your mission - Make your impact relatable - Increase the number of donations received - **Mission-Based Brandscript**: This focuses on articulating the mission of the organization. - **Donor-Based Brandscript**: This approach connects directly with donors’ motivations and desires. It is particularly effective for fundraising purposes because it creates a relatable narrative, making potential donors feel like part of the solution. - **Tailored Strategy**: A certified guide understands the nuances of nonprofit messaging. They craft strategies that resonate deeply with your target audience, ensuring clarity and connection. - **Enhanced Design**: With expertise in [website design principles](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/web-design), they create visually engaging sites that capture attention while guiding visitors seamlessly through the donation process. - **Compelling Copywriting**: Effective storytelling requires more than just good design. A certified guide excels at [writing persuasive copy](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/confident-woman) that speaks directly to donors’ hearts, increasing engagement and conversion rates. - **Streamlined Process**: Navigating the complexities of website improvement can be daunting. A certified guide simplifies this journey, allowing you to focus on your mission while they handle the intricacies of your site. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/best-storybrand-website-examples ### Title: 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ### Page ID: 6940793 ### Content: # 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ## Check our other articles ## Understanding the Power of Storytelling in Marketing ## Evaluating Effective Website Design Strategies for StoryBrand Success ### 1\. Clear Value Proposition ### 2\. Visual Hierarchy ### 3\. Consistency in Branding ### 4\. User-Friendly Navigation ### 5\. Compelling Imagery ## 1\. Coco & Eve: Hair Care Products with a Touch of Paradise ### 1.1 Visual Impact ### 1.2 Color Psychology ## 2\. The Friday Habit: Building Personal Connections Through Consistent Communication ## 3\. Perfectly Placed: Minimalism Meets Clarity in Cleaning Services Branding ## 4\. Indulge Right: Tempting Taste Buds with Mouthwatering Visuals and Sugar-Free Desserts #### Key Takeaway: ## 5\. Divvy Homes: Empowering Homeownership Dreams with Boldness and Clarity ## 6\. Lovejoy & Numbers: Infusing Creativity into Accounting Services Branding #### Key insights include: ## 7\. Mary-Meduna Gross: Guiding Transformation Through Empathy in Life Coaching Websites #### **1\. Empathetic Tone** #### **2\. Storytelling Focus** ## 8\. Made to Impact: Navigating Risks Effectively with Clean Design ## 9\. Nephesh Pilates: Enhancing Posture Improvement Journeys with Monochrome Elegance ## 10\. Tie Boss: Unleashing Versatility Through Modern Minimalism #### Key features include: ## Best Practices for Crafting an Effective StoryBrand Website That Converts Visitors Into Customers ### **1\. Engaging Headlines** ### **2\. Clear Value Proposition** ### **3\. Customer-Centric Approach** ### **4\. Emotional Connection** ### **5\. Visual Storytelling** ### **6\. Call-to-Action (CTA)** ## Conclusion ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### What is the StoryBrand framework and why is it important for small businesses? ### How can a well-crafted website impact my small business? ### What are the key elements of an effective StoryBrand website design? ### Can you provide examples of successful StoryBrand websites? ### What are some key takeaways from the Coco & Eve website? ### How does The Friday Habit build personal connections with its audience? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging Meet Kris Jones, a StoryBrand coach based in Portland who is passionate about helping small businesses succeed. In today's digital world, having a well-designed website can either push your business forward or hold it back. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration A website is more than just an online presence; it's your first impression and the voice of your brand. If it doesn't connect with your audience, you risk losing potential customers. This article will highlight the **10 Best StoryBrand Websites** that can inspire your small business branding. Each example showcases effective storytelling and design techniques that captivate visitors and lead to conversions. Before we dive into these inspiring examples, let's take a closer look at the **StoryBrand framework**—a powerful tool that sets these websites apart and embodies the principles of customer-focused marketing. This framework goes beyond simply creating a website; it involves crafting a narrative that resonates with your target audience. As a certified StoryBrand guide, Kris has the expertise to help clarify your message and establish a deeper connection with your customers. To further enhance this connection, incorporating impactful copywriting strategies can also be beneficial. In our recent podcast episode, Kris and Elyse Archer discuss powerful copywriting secrets that have the potential to transform your business strategy. For those who want to fully embrace the StoryBrand approach, hiring a certified guide like Kris can be highly advantageous. This blog post outlines key questions to consider when searching for such a guide. Additionally, understanding the StoryBrand BrandScript is vital in order to turn your website into an effective sales tool rather than just an online brochure. The **7-step BrandScript framework** is a game-changer for small businesses. It simplifies how to create *customer-centric marketing strategies* that resonate with audiences. Here’s how it works: This approach builds an emotional connection, making customers feel understood and valued. When businesses portray their clients as heroes, they foster trust and loyalty. *Clear messaging* plays a crucial role in this process. It eliminates confusion, allowing potential customers to grasp value quickly. A well-articulated message enhances brand communication, driving conversions effectively. By focusing on simplicity and clarity, brands can leave lasting impressions that convert visitors into loyal customers. To delve deeper into the art of storytelling in business, you might want to explore resources like the She Built It Podcast, where Red Door Designs CEO Kris Jones shares invaluable insights on leveraging storytelling for business growth. Creating a compelling StoryBrand website involves more than just crafting the perfect copy. Engaging design plays a crucial role in how your message is received and acted upon. Key elements to consider include: Your value proposition should be prominently displayed, succinctly explaining what sets your business apart. It acts as the first impression, drawing visitors into your story. Use design elements like size, color, and placement to guide the viewer’s eye through your content. This hierarchy can highlight important messages and calls to action. Maintain a cohesive look and feel throughout your site. This includes using consistent colors, fonts, and imagery that aligns with your brand identity. Simplified navigation enhances user experience. Ensure that visitors can easily find what they’re looking for without frustration. Visuals should resonate with your target audience, creating an emotional connection. High-quality images or graphics can significantly enhance storytelling. Engaging design combined with a clear value proposition not only captures attention but also encourages visitors to take decisive actions. These strategies transform passive browsing into meaningful engagement, setting the stage for conversions and lasting customer relationships. For those seeking expert assistance in implementing these strategies, Red Door Designs specializes in transforming websites into effective sales tools through their unique StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System. Their approach has successfully helped numerous clients like Andrea and Shonda, turning confusing websites into 24/7 sales machines while allowing business owners to focus on what truly matters. Coco & Eve has mastered the art of storytelling through its website design, creating an inviting online oasis for visitors. The homepage dazzles with vibrant colors that not only capture attention but also convey a sense of excitement and natural beauty. Bold imagery of lush tropical settings communicates the brand's promise of delivering paradise to your hair care routine. This approach instantly resonates with customers seeking products that enhance their natural beauty. The strategic use of earthy tones mixed with vivid accents evokes feelings of freshness and energy. These colors reflect the brand’s commitment to using natural ingredients, aligning perfectly with their target audience's values. The **key takeaway** from Coco & Eve’s website is the power of *vibrant visuals*. By immersing visitors in a visually rich experience, they effectively communicate their brand story while enhancing user engagement. This technique not only attracts attention but also fosters emotional connections, essential for driving conversions in today’s competitive market. However, it's not just about aesthetics. The power of website copy cannot be overlooked. Engaging and impactful copy can elevate a brand's story and resonate more deeply with the audience. If you're looking to transform your business narrative, consider seeking expert advice on crafting compelling website content. Moreover, if your current website is confusing potential clients rather than attracting them, it might be time for a StoryBrand website makeover. A well-designed website that tells your story effectively can turn it into a 24/7 sales machine, allowing you to focus on what truly matters while boosting profits. For those who are interested in learning how to create such story-driven websites, resources like the Red Door Stories offer valuable insights. They provide a framework that has helped many businesses increase their rates significantly by leveraging the power of effective design and messaging. In conclusion, whether it's through stunning visuals or captivating copy, the key to a successful website lies in its ability to tell a story that resonates with its audience. The Friday Habit excels in creating a personal touch through its consistent communication strategy. Key takeaway: Nurturing customer relationships through regular touchpoints enhances loyalty and engagement. This website stands as a prime example among the **10 Best StoryBrand Websites**, showcasing how effective storytelling and design can bridge the gap between businesses and their clients. The Friday Habit’s commitment to connection sets a remarkable standard in the realm of digital marketing. Perfectly Placed stands out with its **clean design** and **minimalistic approach**. The website emphasizes **simplicity**, making it effortless for potential clients to navigate and understand the services offered. This strategy not only captivates but also generates leads effectively. The key takeaway? Leveraging simplicity can significantly boost lead generation while maintaining a professional appearance. Perfectly Placed exemplifies how a thoughtful design contributes to a compelling narrative. Indulge Right captivates visitors through its clever use of white space combined with striking food photography. The website design creates an inviting atmosphere that draws in health-conscious customers seeking delicious, sugar-free desserts. Each image is thoughtfully selected to showcase mouthwatering treats, compelling users to explore further. This approach mirrors the diverse storytelling techniques employed across the **10 Best StoryBrand Websites**, including **Coco & Eve**, **The Friday Habit**, and others, each showcasing unique branding strategies. The Indulge Right website serves as a prime example of how effective design can enhance customer experience and engagement. Divvy Homes stands out in the crowded real estate market through its **bold colors** and **eye-catching typography**. This strategic use of design elements conveys their unique selling proposition: making homeownership accessible with smaller down payments and flexible terms. The result? A website that not only attracts attention but also instills confidence in visitors. **Key takeaway:** Striking design choices can differentiate a brand from competitors, enhancing both engagement and conversions. This example, alongside others like Coco & Eve, The Friday Habit, Perfectly Placed, and Indulge Right, showcases diverse storytelling approaches across industries. Each site reinforces the power of effective design in achieving business goals. For instance, leveraging a strategy like Freedom15, which is part of the StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System, could turn platforms like Instagram into powerful selling machines while allowing brands to strategically take a year off posting. Lovejoy & Numbers sets a new standard in the accounting industry with its vibrant color scheme. This creative approach appeals directly to artistic professionals who often feel disconnected from traditional financial services. Aligning brand aesthetics with target audience preferences is crucial for fostering connections. Lovejoy & Numbers exemplifies how creativity can transform perceptions in an often staid field. This adds to the rich tapestry of the **10 Best StoryBrand Websites**, showcasing diverse industries like **Coco & Eve**, **The Friday Habit**, and **Perfectly Placed**. Each example demonstrates unique storytelling through design, inspiring small businesses to rethink their branding strategies. Mary-Meduna Gross stands out in the life coaching space with her website that radiates empathy and understanding. Her messaging resonates deeply, addressing common challenges faced by clients. The content emphasizes transformative journeys, inviting visitors to envision their own success stories. This approach mirrors the successful strategies employed by other businesses, such as Red Door Designs, which utilizes a compelling storytelling method to enhance client engagement and conversion rates. Their Client Transformation Spotlight showcases how relatable narratives can effectively resonate with potential customers. The combination of genuine narratives and relatable language establishes trust. This authentic approach not only attracts potential clients but also fosters lasting connections. Key takeaway: Authentic brand narratives can significantly enhance customer trust and engagement, as seen in Mary-Meduna Gross’s impactful website and the successful storytelling strategies employed by Red Door Designs. Made to Impact excels in its **clean design**, effectively communicating potential risks associated with their services. The site's simplicity allows users to focus on essential information without distraction. In the context of the **10 Best StoryBrand Websites**, Made to Impact stands out alongside examples like *Coco & Eve*, *The Friday Habit*, and others. Each website showcases unique storytelling through design that resonates across diverse industries. Nephesh Pilates employs a striking black-and-white design that captivates visitors immediately. This choice not only enhances aesthetic appeal but also emphasizes clarity in messaging about posture improvement. In the *10 Best StoryBrand Websites*, Nephesh Pilates stands out for its ability to communicate effectively through its elegant design—much like *Coco & Eve, The Friday Habit,* and others on our curated list. Tie Boss is a great example of modern minimalism in website design, built on Shopify. The site uses dynamic action shots to showcase the product's functionality and highlight the versatility of their multi-purpose hoisting tool. This approach not only captivates visitors but also emphasizes the product’s utility, echoing themes found in other standout examples like *Coco & Eve*, *The Friday Habit*, and *Indulge Right*. Each curated website demonstrates the power of storytelling through design, showcasing diverse industries and unique strategies to engage viewers. Creating a compelling StoryBrand website requires a blend of strategic storytelling and design finesse. Here are key takeaways from the top examples that highlight how storytelling in marketing plays a crucial role throughout the customer journey: Capture attention with headlines that resonate with your audience’s pain points and aspirations. Communicate what sets your brand apart right from the start. Effective messaging helps prospects understand how you can solve their problems. Position customers as heroes. Your brand should be the guide that empowers them to achieve their goals. Use storytelling techniques to connect emotionally. This builds trust and fosters long-lasting relationships. Leverage imagery that complements your narrative. Vibrant visuals and clean designs enhance user experience and retention. Each stage of the customer journey should have clear CTAs, guiding visitors toward desired actions, whether it’s signing up for a newsletter or making a purchase. Incorporating these elements ensures each visitor feels valued, paving the way for enduring customer relationships that extend beyond the initial interaction. For those looking to enhance their website copywriting skills, this podcast episode offers expert tips and strategies to craft compelling website copy that resonates with your audience and drives results. Additionally, if you're involved in the non-profit sector and want to apply the StoryBrand principles to your website, you might find inspiration in some of the best StoryBrand non-profit websites which provide excellent examples of effective storytelling in action. Embrace the power of storytelling using the StoryBrand framework. These **10 Best StoryBrand Website** examples demonstrate how effective messaging can transform your online presence and drive customer engagement. As a certified StoryBrand coach, I can help you implement these strategies effectively on your website or business, turning your story into sales with our proven framework. Let’s unlock your potential together. Interested in transforming your storytelling techniques? Reach out today! The StoryBrand framework is a 7-step BrandScript model designed to help businesses create customer-centric marketing strategies. It emphasizes portraying customers as heroes and companies as guides, which builds emotional connections with the audience. This approach enhances clear messaging, improves brand communication, and ultimately drives conversions. In the digital age, a well-crafted website can significantly influence your small business's success. It serves as your online storefront, where engaging design and clear messaging can capture visitors' attention, foster trust, and guide them towards taking action, such as making a purchase or signing up for a newsletter. An effective StoryBrand website design includes engaging visuals, a clear value proposition, and concise messaging that resonates with the target audience. These elements work together to create an immersive experience that encourages visitors to engage with the brand and take desired actions. Yes! Some top examples of successful StoryBrand websites include Coco & Eve, The Friday Habit, Perfectly Placed, Indulge Right, Divvy Homes, Lovejoy & Numbers, Mary-Meduna Gross, Made to Impact, Nephesh Pilates, and Tie Boss. Each of these websites showcases unique storytelling approaches tailored to their respective industries. Coco & Eve utilizes vibrant colors and captivating visuals to create an immersive brand experience. Their storytelling approach effectively conveys excitement and naturalness in their hair care products, demonstrating how harnessing strong visuals can enhance customer engagement. The Friday Habit establishes personal connections through consistent communication via weekly emails. This strategy nurtures customer relationships by keeping the audience engaged with regular touchpoints that resonate with their interests and needs. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) 1. **Character**: Define your customer as the hero. 2. **Problem**: Identify their challenges. 3. **Guide**: Position your company as their trusted guide. 4. **Plan**: Provide a clear plan of action. 5. **Call to Action**: Encourage them to take the next step. 6. **Avoid Failure**: Highlight the risks of inaction. 7. **Success**: Paint a picture of what success looks like. - **Weekly Emails**: They send out engaging emails that resonate with their audience's goals. - **Establishing Connection**: This approach fosters familiarity and trust, making recipients feel valued and understood. - **Clear messaging** that directly communicates the value of their cleaning services. - An inviting layout that enhances user experience, encouraging visitors to take action. - **Bright colors** evoke energy and optimism, appealing to potential homeowners. - **Bold typography** emphasizes key messages, ensuring clarity in communication. - **Color Palette**: The use of blues and whites establishes a sense of trust and professionalism while also resonating with a creative audience. - **Visual Appeal**: Engaging visuals complement the messaging, making the brand memorable. - **Messaging strategy** emphasizes the importance of understanding risks in a straightforward manner. - This approach balances professionalism and approachability, fostering trust with visitors. - **User Engagement**: The monochrome palette allows the content to shine, drawing attention to key information without distractions. - **Cohesive Visual Identity**: Every element, from text to imagery, works harmoniously to create a seamless user experience. - **Streamlined Aesthetic:** Clean lines and ample white space create an inviting user experience. - **Creative Product Benefits:** Visual storytelling effectively communicates the practical uses of Tie Boss, enhancing customer understanding. - **Adopt a customer-centric approach.** Position your audience as the hero in their journey. - **Simplify your messaging.** Clear communication fosters trust and encourages conversions. - **Utilize vibrant visuals.** Engaging design makes your brand memorable. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide ### Title: Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ### Page ID: 6941003 ### Content: # Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ## Check our other articles ## Understanding the Role and Benefits of a StoryBrand Guide ### The Importance of Clarity in Communication ### Using Storytelling to Align Marketing Strategies with Business Goals ### Simplifying Messaging with the StoryBrand Framework ### Revamping Your Website for Better Client Retention ## Key Questions to Ask Before Hiring a StoryBrand Guide ### 1\. Research Recommendations and Testimonials ### 2\. Assess Case Studies and Results ### 3\. Understand Their Process ## The Impact of the StoryBrand Framework on Business Growth ## Finding the Right Fit: Selecting Your StoryBrand Guide ### 1\. Check Expertise and Experience ### 2\. Evaluate Testimonials and Recommendations ### 3\. Assess Compatibility with Your Business Needs ### 4\. Inquire About Their Process ## Conclusion: Making an Informed Decision with Your StoryBrand Guide ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### What is the role of a StoryBrand guide in business growth? ### Why should I hire a StoryBrand guide for my business? ### What key questions should I ask when hiring a StoryBrand guide? ### How does the StoryBrand framework simplify messaging for businesses? ### What should I look for when selecting the right StoryBrand guide? ### How can a StoryBrand guide improve my marketing efforts? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging Kris Jones, a Portland-based StoryBrand Guide, is dedicated to helping businesses clarify their messages and connect with customers. Hiring a StoryBrand guide can be transformative for your business growth, providing clarity and direction in your marketing efforts. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration Consider the following benefits of working with a StoryBrand guide: Before you hire a StoryBrand guide, it's crucial to ask the right questions. This article will cover key areas to explore, including recommendations, case studies, and processes that ensure effective messaging. Your business deserves the best fit for its success. To maximize the benefits of hiring a StoryBrand guide like Kris Jones, consider exploring resources that provide valuable insights into business storytelling and brand messaging. For instance, the [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) hosted by LaChelle Wieme and Kris Jones offers transformative insights that empower entrepreneurs to achieve success. Moreover, understanding how to turn your story into sales can be achieved through the proven [StoryBrand Framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change). This framework has helped many entrepreneurs scale their businesses significantly, transforming scattered marketing into one powerful story. For those who are just starting out or are in need of further assistance in crafting their brand story, there are also [free resources available](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/free-resources-copy) that focus on creating a signature story-selling system. This system can help turn your website into a 24/7 sales machine while you focus on what matters most in your business. A **StoryBrand guide** is an important partner in your business journey. Their main tasks are: Clarity is the foundation of effective communication. A skilled StoryBrand guide helps express your message in a way that resonates with potential customers. This process leads to better engagement, as it addresses their pain points directly. The alignment of marketing strategies with business goals is facilitated through storytelling. By incorporating narratives into your marketing efforts, you create an emotional connection with your audience. This not only attracts attention but also builds trust and loyalty. A StoryBrand guide uses tools like the **StoryBrand framework**, which simplifies messaging. This simplification ensures that your brand stands out in a crowded marketplace and effectively communicates its unique value proposition. For example, by using the [Freedom15](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/freedom15) strategy from Red Door Designs, you can turn Instagram into a selling machine while strategically taking a year off posting. Such innovative approaches not only save time but also boost profits. Moreover, if you're dealing with a confusing website that's causing you to lose clients, it's time for an upgrade. A [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover) could be the answer you're looking for. This transformation can turn your website into a 24/7 sales machine, allowing you to focus on what matters most while increasing revenue. With the right guidance from a StoryBrand expert, you can reshape how customers view and engage with your brand, resulting in steady growth and higher revenue. Finding the right StoryBrand guide can significantly impact your business. Asking the right questions helps ensure you choose someone who aligns with your vision and goals. Consider these essential areas when evaluating potential candidates: Look for feedback from previous clients. Genuine testimonials provide insights into how well the guide has met their clients' needs. A good guide should have a history of satisfied clients who can vouch for their abilities. For instance, [Red Door Designs](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/work-with-me) has numerous success stories where they transformed websites into effective sales tools. Review case studies that illustrate their experience with the StoryBrand framework. Look for specific examples where they achieved measurable results. Did they help businesses increase sales, improve engagement, or clarify messaging? These outcomes reflect their effectiveness in real-world applications. A great example is [Shonda's transformation](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-shonda) through the StoryBrand process, which led to significant improvements in her business. Inquire about their approach to developing clear messaging and implementing strategies. A solid process is crucial for effective communication with your audience. Consider how they manage revisions and feedback—this indicates how adaptable they are to your needs. Taking time to evaluate these aspects will lead you to a StoryBrand guide who is not only experienced but also equipped to elevate your brand's narrative and customer connection. Additionally, exploring resources like this insightful [podcast episode](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/talk-with-renee-dalo) can provide valuable tips on crafting compelling website copy that resonates with your audience and drives results. The **StoryBrand framework**, which clarifies your message to resonate with your target audience, is a game changer for business growth. By focusing on the customer's journey, it simplifies complex ideas into relatable narratives. Key components include: This approach not only enhances understanding but also drives engagement. A *customer-centric website design*, which is an integral part of this process, can significantly enhance this framework's effectiveness. By incorporating: you create a space where potential clients feel connected and understood. Imagine landing on a website that immediately addresses your needs and offers solutions in an inviting way. The StoryBrand framework enables this by ensuring every element of your marketing strategy aligns with your audience's expectations and desires. When you decide to [hire a StoryBrand Guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/what-is-a-storybrand-brandscript), you're not just enhancing your messaging; you're setting the stage for significant business growth through effective marketing strategies that lead to higher conversions. Furthermore, leveraging [powerful copywriting techniques](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-sells) can transform your business strategy, engaging your audience effectively and skyrocketing your conversions. This is crucial in creating a [customer-centric website design](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/web-design) that serves as a 24/7 sales machine, allowing you to focus on what matters while boosting profits. To illustrate the impact of such strategies, consider the [transformation](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrea) experienced by one of our clients after implementing these changes. Their website became more than just an online presence; it turned into a powerful sales tool that significantly increased their profits. Lastly, it's important to recognize the role of impactful website copy in elevating your brand story. Join experts Rachel Brooks and Kris Jones as they unveil [the magic of website copy](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/confident-woman), sharing secrets of impactful storytelling that can transform your business narrative with practical tips and expert advice. Choosing the right [StoryBrand guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand) for your business can significantly influence your marketing success. Here are some tips to help you evaluate potential candidates effectively: Look for a guide with a proven track record in implementing the StoryBrand framework. Ask for case studies or examples of past work that demonstrate their ability to clarify messaging and drive results. Reach out to previous clients to gain insight into their experiences. Trustworthy testimonials can reveal how well the guide communicates, collaborates, and delivers on promises. Consider your specific goals and challenges. Does the candidate offer services that align with what you need? A great fit means they not only understand the framework but also how it applies to your unique situation. Understanding how they implement the StoryBrand framework is crucial. Ask about their approach to revisions and feedback handling, as this will impact your collaboration. Choosing the right specialist ensures you get optimal results from your investment, paving the way for clarity in your messaging and growth in your business. For instance, guides like those from [Red Door Designs](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples) have successfully implemented the StoryBrand framework for various businesses, including non-profits. Their expertise extends beyond mere implementation; they also provide valuable insights into creating compelling narratives that resonate with audiences, as discussed in their podcast episode featuring CEO Kris Jones on [She Built It](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it). Moreover, it's essential to remember that a good StoryBrand guide doesn't just focus on selling a service but also empowers you with knowledge and strategies that enhance your brand's storytelling ability. This is crucial in creating magnetic sales copy that captivates and converts your ideal clients, a skill expertly handled by professionals like Kris Jones and Marion Wagner at Red Door Designs, who share their compelling sales copy strategies in an enlightening session on [getting out of your head](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head). As you start looking for a **StoryBrand guide**, remember that asking the right questions is crucial. This selection process can greatly affect your business's growth. Focus on these key areas: Finding the best-fit guide for your business means ensuring they align with your specific needs and goals. A skilled StoryBrand guide can be instrumental in *improving marketing expertise*, connecting you with customers, and ultimately driving revenue growth. Take the time to evaluate potential candidates thoroughly; it’s an investment in your future success. A StoryBrand guide specializes in clarifying your business message to enhance customer engagement. They utilize the StoryBrand framework to align your marketing strategies with your business goals, ensuring that your messaging resonates with your target audience. Hiring a StoryBrand guide can significantly impact your business's success by providing expert guidance in developing a clear and compelling message. This clarity helps improve customer connections and drives effective marketing strategies, ultimately leading to business growth. When hiring a StoryBrand guide, consider asking about their experience with the StoryBrand framework, request case studies or testimonials from previous clients, and inquire about their specific process for creating clear messaging and implementing successful marketing strategies. The StoryBrand framework simplifies messaging by breaking it down into clear components that resonate with your target audience. It emphasizes customer-centric storytelling, helping businesses communicate their value effectively through persuasive language and visuals. To find the right StoryBrand guide, evaluate candidates based on their expertise in implementing the framework, review their track record of success with similar businesses, and ensure that their offerings align with your specific business needs for optimal results. A StoryBrand guide can enhance your marketing efforts by providing insights into customer connection strategies and helping you design a customer-centric website. Their expertise ensures that your messaging is clear and compelling, ultimately driving conversions and fostering business growth. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - **Enhanced Customer Engagement**: A clear message resonates better with your audience. - **Aligned Marketing Strategies**: Your goals become integral to your marketing approach. - **Consistent Brand Identity**: The right guide ensures uniformity across all channels. - Clarifying your brand's message - Improving customer connection - Aligning marketing strategies with business goals - **Character**: Identifying the customer as the hero of the story. - **Problem**: Highlighting their struggles and pain points. - **Guide**: Positioning your brand as a trusted ally. - **Plan**: Outlining a clear path to resolution. - **Success**: Painting a vivid picture of transformation. - **Persuasive language** that speaks directly to emotions - **Powerful visuals** that evoke feelings and prompt action - **Experience and Expertise**: Look for candidates with a proven track record in implementing the StoryBrand framework, such as transforming websites into effective sales tools. For instance, one successful strategy involved creating a story-driven website that worked 24/7, leading to a 600% increase in rates for a business owner. - **Testimonials and Case Studies**: Seek out success stories from previous clients to gauge their effectiveness. A guide who has successfully implemented the [StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/click) could be particularly beneficial. - **Process Clarity**: Understand how they approach messaging and implementation. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-messaging ### Title: How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ### Page ID: 6941037 ### Content: # How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ## Check our other articles ## Understanding the Power of StoryBrand Messaging ### Key components of this framework include: ## The 7 Steps to Crafting a Compelling StoryBrand Script ## Saving Copywriting Fees with StoryBrand Messaging ### 1\. Clarity Over Complexity ### 2\. DIY Content Creation ### 3\. Streamlined Process ### Real-Life Success Stories ## Building Customer Trust and Improving SEO Rankings with StoryBrand ## Implementing StoryBrand Principles in Your Website Content Writing Process ## Conclusion ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### What is the StoryBrand framework and how does it benefit businesses? ### How can using StoryBrand messaging save copywriting fees for my website? ### What are the 7 steps to crafting a compelling StoryBrand script? ### How does StoryBrand messaging help build customer trust? ### Can StoryBrand principles improve my website's SEO rankings? ### What practical tips can I use to implement StoryBrand principles in my website content writing? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging Hello, I’m Kris Jones, a StoryBrand Guide based in Portland. It's been incredibly rewarding to help businesses thrive through storytelling, especially when it comes to saving money on website copywriting fees. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the costs associated with professional copywriters? I understand that pain. The power of **StoryBrand messaging** lies in its ability to simplify complex ideas into engaging narratives. This framework allows businesses to create compelling website content that resonates deeply with their audience. By leveraging the [**StoryBrand framework**](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide), you can save significantly on copywriting fees while crafting messages that are clear and effective. Imagine transforming your website into a client-converting machine without breaking the bank. With StoryBrand, it's possible to communicate your brand's essence in a way that not only captivates but also converts visitors into loyal customers. If you're wondering how to implement this approach effectively, hiring a [StoryBrand guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide) can be a game-changer. A certified guide can help clarify your message and establish a strong connection with your customers. Furthermore, the [StoryBrand BrandScript](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/what-is-a-storybrand-brandscript) is an essential tool in this process. It helps in structuring your narrative in a way that turns your website into a 24/7 sales machine, allowing you to focus on what matters while boosting profits. Let’s explore how this approach can streamline your messaging and boost your bottom line. The **StoryBrand framework**, a powerful messaging system designed to simplify complex products and services, is changing the way businesses communicate. By getting rid of unnecessary jargon, it allows companies to present their offerings in an engaging and easy-to-understand manner. Customer-centric storytelling is crucial in marketing strategies. When businesses tell their stories from the perspective of their customers, they create genuine connections that build trust and loyalty. Here are some benefits: Adopting this customer-first approach ensures that your messaging is not only clear but also compelling, setting the stage for greater success in connecting with your audience. To fully utilize this [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change), it's important to create a signature story that converts. This proven framework has helped many businesses significantly increase their sales call closing rates. Additionally, implementing strategies like [Freedom15](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/freedom15), which uses 15 strategic posts to turn Instagram into a selling machine, can further improve your marketing efforts. If your website is currently confusing clients instead of converting them, consider using [StoryBrand's Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/free-resources-copy). This method can transform your website into a 24/7 sales machine, allowing you more time to focus on what truly matters while boosting profits. Lastly, if you're struggling with client retention due to website confusion, it's worth considering a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover). Such a transformation can greatly enhance user experience and ultimately lead to higher conversion rates. Creating a compelling **StoryBrand script** involves a systematic approach that focuses on your customer as the hero of the story. Here’s a breakdown of the seven key steps: *Clarifying the hero's problem* is vital in this process. By understanding their specific challenges, you can tailor your messaging to resonate deeply with them, creating a connection that encourages them to act. A clear *call to action* ensures that potential customers know exactly what steps they need to take next, whether it’s signing up for a newsletter, scheduling a consultation, or making a purchase. Implementing these seven steps not only simplifies your marketing message but also engages your audience effectively, turning casual visitors into loyal customers ready to embrace your solutions. For example, in our [Client Transformation Spotlight](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-mark), we showcase how our StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System has helped clients like Mark transform their websites into 24/7 sales machines, allowing them to focus on what truly matters while boosting profits. This is the power of crafting an effective StoryBrand script using these seven steps! Using the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/), as implemented by businesses like Mikki Garner Coaching and Deb Meyer Consulting, can dramatically reduce your reliance on professional editors and copywriters. This shift leads to significant cost savings for businesses of all sizes. Here’s how it works: The StoryBrand approach breaks down complex messages into simple, memorable phrases. This clarity allows you to create professional-grade copy without needing extensive editing. By utilizing the principles of StoryBrand, you empower yourself to craft your own website content. This not only saves money but also ensures your brand voice remains authentic and consistent. The structured 7-step process simplifies the writing and editing phases, minimizing the need for expensive revisions or consultations with professional copywriters. Many companies have successfully saved on copywriting costs through this method: Transforming how you communicate can lead to substantial financial benefits. The efficiency gained from using a proven framework like StoryBrand not only enhances your messaging but also protects your budget. If you're struggling with crafting your own website copy or looking to enhance your existing skills, consider exploring some expert advice on [website copywriting skills](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/talk-with-renee-dalo). This resource offers key insights into creating compelling website content that resonates with your audience and drives results. Concise and clear messaging plays a crucial role in fostering **customer trust**. When potential clients land on your website, they seek immediate clarity about what you offer. By employing the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples), you can simplify complex ideas into straightforward language that resonates with your audience. This transparency not only builds confidence but also positions your brand as relatable and trustworthy. To enhance **SEO rankings**, focus on these strategies within the StoryBrand framework: By integrating these practices, you create a website that is not only user-friendly but also optimized for search engines. The result is a dual benefit—enhanced customer trust through clear messaging paired with improved SEO performance that drives traffic to your site. For further insights on business storytelling and brand messaging, consider tuning into the [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) hosted by LaChelle Wieme & Kris Jones. Their transformative insights empower entrepreneurs to achieve success. Additionally, if you're looking to turn your website into your best salesperson, check out Kris Jones' guide on creating a story-driven website that works 24/7, which has helped one business owner increase rates by 600%. Crafting website content that resonates with your audience involves applying StoryBrand principles effectively. Here are practical tips for writing website content that engages and converts visitors into customers: By implementing these strategies, you can transform your website into a powerful tool for attracting and converting clients. If you're struggling with [web design](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/web-design) or need assistance in crafting compelling stories for your website, consider reaching out to professionals who specialize in this area. For instance, [Andrea's transformation](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrea) through such services showcases the potential impact of effective web design and storytelling. Similarly, [Shonda's success story](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-shonda) further emphasizes this point. These transformations underline the importance of having a website that not only looks good but also tells a story that resonates with visitors, turning them into loyal customers. Implementing the **StoryBrand framework** offers significant advantages for businesses. It's not just about crafting a clear message; it's about saving copywriting fees for your website while enhancing overall brand effectiveness. Start leveraging the power of storytelling in your marketing efforts today. Your story deserves to be told effectively—let's get started! Additionally, if you're looking for [compelling sales copy strategies](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head), we've got expert advice that can enhance your brand's storytelling to captivate and convert your ideal clients. The StoryBrand framework is an effective messaging system that simplifies complex products and services by focusing on customer-centric storytelling. It helps businesses craft compelling website content that resonates with their audience, ultimately driving engagement and conversions. By implementing the StoryBrand framework, businesses can create professional-grade copywriting without relying heavily on expensive professional copywriters. This leads to significant cost savings while still ensuring effective communication with customers. The 7 steps in the StoryBrand script involve clarifying the hero's problem, defining the character's journey, and including a clear call to action. These steps guide businesses in creating a narrative that connects with their audience and drives them to take action. Concise and clear messaging fosters trust among customers. By simplifying language and focusing on key messages, businesses can effectively communicate their value proposition, which enhances customer confidence in their brand. Yes! Simplified language and focused messaging not only enhance clarity but also align with SEO best practices. By integrating relevant keywords within the StoryBrand framework, businesses can improve their search engine rankings while delivering valuable content. To apply StoryBrand principles effectively, focus on identifying your customer's problems, position your brand as the solution, maintain clarity throughout your content, and include strong calls to action. These strategies will engage visitors and convert them into customers. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - **Clarifying the message**: This involves identifying the customer as the hero and your brand as the guide, shifting the focus from what you sell to how you can solve your customers’ problems. - **Simplifying language**: This ensures that potential clients grasp your value quickly, increasing their likelihood of engagement. - **Enhanced Engagement**: People relate more to stories than mere facts. A well-crafted narrative resonates on an emotional level, encouraging potential clients to invest in your brand. - **Increased Conversions**: A compelling story not only captures attention but also drives action. When customers see themselves as part of your story, they are more inclined to take the next step—whether that's signing up for a newsletter or making a purchase. 1. **Character**: Identify your hero—this is your customer. What do they want? 2. **Problem**: Clarify the hero's problem. Dive deep into their pain points and frustrations. 3. **Guide**: Introduce yourself as the mentor. Show empathy and authority to build trust. 4. **Plan**: Offer a clear plan or solution that helps your hero overcome their challenges. 5. **Call to Action**: Include a direct and compelling call to action. This step is crucial for driving engagement. 6. **Avoid Failure**: Highlight what’s at stake if they don’t take action—this creates urgency. 7. **Success**: Paint a picture of how life will look post-solution, reinforcing the benefits of taking action. - **Mikki Garner Coaching:** After implementing the StoryBrand framework, Mikki saw a remarkable reduction in her content creation expenses, enabling her to focus on client engagement rather than outsourcing tasks. - **Deb Meyer Consulting:** By adopting StoryBrand messaging, Deb reduced her reliance on costly marketing agencies. Her website now resonates deeply with visitors, leading to an increase in inquiries without additional copywriting fees. - **Keyword Optimization**: Identify relevant keywords that align with customer pain points. Incorporate these naturally into your messaging without compromising the clarity of your content. - **Clear Headlines**: Use headlines that capture attention and explain what visitors will gain from your offerings. This approach improves both user experience and search engine visibility. - **Meta Descriptions and Alt Text**: Craft informative meta descriptions and use descriptive alt text for images. Clear descriptions help search engines understand your content, improving discoverability. - **Readable Content**: Short paragraphs, bullet points, and scannable formats cater to visitors’ reading habits. Simplified language keeps potential clients engaged longer, which positively impacts SEO metrics like bounce rates. - **Identify the Hero**: Focus on your customer as the hero of the story. Clearly define their problems and desires. This creates an instant connection. - **Clarify the Problem**: Be explicit about the challenges your audience faces. Use relatable language to describe these pain points. - **Position Yourself as the Guide**: Introduce your brand as a mentor with a clear plan. Share how you can help them overcome their challenges. - **Simplify Your Message**: Avoid jargon. Use simple, direct language that communicates value without overwhelming visitors. - **Include a Clear Call to Action**: Ensure every page has a specific next step for readers, guiding them towards engagement or purchase. - **Cost-efficient**: Say goodbye to hefty copywriter bills. You can even [transform your website content](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/confident-woman) into a client-converting machine that resonates with your audience and drives results. - **Clarity and connection**: Engage your audience with compelling narratives. [Unlock business growth](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it) by leveraging storytelling secrets that hook your audience and boost sales. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-for-financial-advisors ### Title: StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ### Page ID: 6942752 ### Content: # StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ## Check our other articles ## Understanding the Target Audience in Finance ### Common Pain Points ## The Seven Elements of the StoryBrand Framework ### 1\. Hero ### 2\. Problem ### 3\. Guide ### 4\. Plan ### 5\. Call to Action ## Steps to Implementing StoryBrand for Financial Advisors ### 1\. Craft Your Financial Advisor Brand Statement ### 2\. Identify Customer Pain Points ### 3\. Create Compelling Content ## Enhancing Engagement through Effective Communication Strategies ### 1\. Personal Stories ### 2\. Client-Centric Narratives #### 1\. Introductory Videos #### 2\. Educational Content ## Developing a Comprehensive Marketing Strategy Using StoryBrand Principles ### 1\. Clear Messaging ### 2\. Customer-Centric Approach ### 3\. Diverse Channels ### 4\. Consistent Branding ### 5\. Engagement Through Content ## Measuring Success and Refining Your Approach Over Time ## Conclusion ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### What is the StoryBrand framework and how does it benefit financial advisors? ### Why is understanding the target audience crucial for financial advisors? ### What are the seven elements of the StoryBrand framework relevant to financial advisors? ### How can financial advisors create a compelling brand message using StoryBrand principles? ### What types of content should financial advisors produce to engage potential clients? ### How can financial advisors measure the success of their StoryBrand implementation efforts? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging The StoryBrand framework offers a powerful approach for financial advisors seeking to attract and engage customers. This method emphasizes the importance of storytelling over traditional marketing tactics, simplifying messages in a field often riddled with jargon and complexity. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration By implementing the StoryBrand framework, financial advisors can effectively communicate their value proposition, ensuring that clients feel understood and supported throughout their financial endeavors. This transformation not only enhances client engagement but also positions advisors as indispensable guides in achieving financial success. To delve deeper into how this framework can be leveraged, consider exploring resources like [Freedom15](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/freedom15), which outlines a signature story-selling system tailored for social media platforms like Instagram. Additionally, the [agents of change](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change) resource provides insights on turning your story into sales using the StoryBrand framework. For those with existing websites that may be confusing potential clients, a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover) could transform it into a 24/7 sales machine. In the financial services industry, understanding your target audience is crucial. Clients often face specific needs and challenges that require tailored solutions. Here are some key considerations: Recognizing these pain points allows financial advisors to position themselves as problem solvers. Clients don't just want advice; they seek a partner who understands their unique circumstances. Effective communication plays a vital role in this process. Establishing credibility involves: Building rapport fosters trust and encourages open dialogue. When clients feel understood, they are more likely to engage and invest in your services. By focusing on the specific challenges faced by potential clients, financial advisors can craft messages that truly connect, paving the way for lasting relationships. The [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/what-is-a-storybrand-brandscript) offers a powerful approach for financial advisors to articulate their value proposition clearly. This model revolves around seven essential elements, each playing a crucial role in shaping effective marketing strategies. Let’s break down these elements. In this framework, the client is the *Hero*. Financial advisors must position their clients as the central character in their financial journey. It’s not about showcasing the advisor's credentials but focusing on the client's aspirations and desires. By acknowledging what clients want—such as security, peace of mind, or financial independence—you create an emotional connection that resonates deeply. Next comes the *Problem*. Identifying key challenges that hinder clients from reaching their goals is vital. These obstacles can range from confusion about retirement savings to anxiety over debt management. Financial advisors should articulate these problems clearly, demonstrating empathy and understanding of their clients' struggles. This step is about showing potential clients that you recognize their pain points and are equipped to help them navigate these challenges. Now, introduce yourself as the *Guide*. Your role as a financial advisor is to provide expert guidance and support throughout your clients' journeys. Establishing trust is paramount here. Share your qualifications, experiences, and successes in helping others overcome similar hurdles. A personal touch—like sharing relatable stories—can enhance your credibility and foster a deeper connection with prospective clients. Consider hiring a [StoryBrand guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide) to help clarify your message and connect with your customers more effectively. With problems identified and your position established, it’s time to share your *Plan*. This involves outlining actionable steps that clients can take toward financial success. Create a clear roadmap that simplifies complex financial processes into manageable tasks. Providing this structure reassures potential clients that they have a straightforward path to follow, making them more likely to engage with your services. The final piece of the puzzle is the *Call to Action*. Encourage potential customers to take immediate action—whether that's scheduling a consultation or signing up for your newsletter. A compelling call to action removes ambiguity and gives prospects a clear next step in their journey toward financial wellness. By embracing these elements within your marketing strategies, you establish a narrative that resonates with potential clients, ultimately leading them toward choosing you as their trusted financial advisor. Implementing the StoryBrand framework involves a systematic approach to communicate your value effectively. Here are three essential steps to get started: A concise brand statement is critical. It should clearly reflect your unique value proposition as an advisor. Think of it as your elevator pitch that resonates with potential clients, making them feel understood and valued. These statements encapsulate client success stories, demonstrating how you can transform their financial journeys. For instance, [Andrea's transformation story](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrea) exemplifies how a clear brand message can resonate with clients. Understanding the specific financial challenges faced by your target audience is crucial. Techniques to uncover these pain points include: This information helps tailor your services and messaging to address real issues, creating a connection that builds trust. Content marketing strategies play a vital role in establishing authority and engaging potential clients. Focus on producing content that speaks directly to their pain points. Types of content include: Engaging content positions you not just as an advisor but as a valuable resource on their financial journey. To enhance your content creation process, consider exploring resources like the [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) which offers transformative insights on business storytelling and brand messaging, empowering entrepreneurs to achieve success. These steps will help you create a brand message using StoryBrand principles, setting the foundation for effective customer engagement and trust-building in the finance sector. Creating genuine connections with clients enhances trust and engagement. [Storytelling techniques](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it) serve as a powerful tool in client meetings. By sharing relatable narratives, financial advisors can illustrate complex concepts and humanize the advice they provide. Here’s how to leverage storytelling effectively: Share success stories of past clients. Highlight challenges faced and how your guidance led to their financial achievements. This not only builds credibility but also fosters emotional connections. Frame discussions around the client's journey. Use language that emphasizes their goals, fears, and aspirations. This positions them as the hero of their financial story. In addition to storytelling, video content stands out as an impactful strategy for building rapport: Create short videos introducing yourself and your services. Personalize these messages to resonate with potential clients. Use video to explain financial concepts simply. Dynamic visuals combined with clear explanations can make complex topics more accessible. Integrating these strategies into consultation approaches cultivates trust and encourages deeper connections with prospective customers. The result? Increased engagement and a stronger likelihood of converting leads into loyal clients. Moreover, employing [compelling sales copy strategies](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head) can significantly enhance your brand's storytelling ability, captivating and converting your ideal clients. Additionally, mastering the art of website copywriting can help in creating captivating content that resonates with your audience. This involves understanding the psychology of your readers and effectively utilizing [proven strategies for crafting irresistible website copy](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/brand-gravity). Creating a successful marketing strategy involves integrating the [StoryBrand principles](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/wantrepreneur) to clearly communicate value and establish connections. Here are essential components to consider: Simplify your message using the StoryBrand framework. Focus on how you can help clients achieve their financial goals rather than listing services. For instance, employing powerful copywriting secrets can significantly enhance your business strategy. Position your target audience as heroes in their financial journey. Understand their challenges and tailor your messaging to address these pain points. Utilize various platforms to reach potential clients effectively: Ensure all communications reflect your brand's voice and values, reinforcing trust and recognition. Create blog posts, videos, or infographics that cater to client interests. This positions you as an authority in finance while providing genuine value. Implementing these strategies will not only attract more prospects but also foster lasting relationships based on trust and credibility. To further enhance your marketing approach, consider exploring how [to apply the StoryBrand principle to nonprofit websites](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples), which offers valuable insights into creating a cohesive narrative across all platforms. Tracking the effectiveness of your StoryBrand implementation is crucial. Identifying relevant key performance indicators (KPIs) allows financial advisors to measure customer engagement metrics effectively. Consider focusing on: Continuous improvement hinges on client feedback and adapting to evolving market trends. Regularly solicit input from your clients through surveys or informal conversations. This insight can reveal areas for enhancement in your messaging or service offerings. For instance, implementing a [StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/copy-that-sells) can significantly improve your website's performance by turning it into a 24/7 sales machine. This transformation can be seen in the success stories of clients like [Donald](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-donald), [Mark](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-mark), and [Neill](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-neill), who all benefited from this approach. Analyze market shifts that may impact client needs. Staying ahead of these changes ensures your StoryBrand message remains relevant and impactful. Implementing a feedback loop not only refines your approach but also fosters trust and credibility with clients. By focusing on measurable outcomes and remaining agile in response to feedback, financial advisors can maximize the benefits of the StoryBrand framework, enhancing client connections and driving growth effectively. Financial advisors have a unique opportunity to transform their marketing strategies by using storytelling. The insights gained from exploring **StoryBrand for Financial Advisors** can greatly improve your ability to connect with potential clients and stand out in a crowded market. By adopting these strategies, you can attract customers as a financial advisor more effectively. Don’t underestimate the impact of a well-crafted story on building trust and driving engagement. Embrace the journey, and watch your business grow through genuine connections and clear communication. The StoryBrand framework is a marketing strategy that helps businesses clarify their messaging by positioning the customer as the hero of their own story. For financial advisors, implementing this framework allows them to effectively communicate their value proposition, address client pain points, and build trust, ultimately attracting and engaging more clients. Understanding the target audience is essential for financial advisors because it enables them to identify specific needs and challenges faced by clients in the financial services industry. By recognizing common pain points such as retirement planning and debt management, advisors can tailor their services and communication strategies to establish credibility and rapport with potential clients. The seven elements of the StoryBrand framework include: 1) Hero - positioning the customer as the central character; 2) Problem - identifying key challenges faced by clients; 3) Guide - establishing the advisor as a trusted guide; 5) Call to Action - encouraging immediate action from potential customers. These elements help shape effective marketing strategies for financial advisors. Financial advisors can create a compelling brand message by crafting a concise brand statement that reflects their unique value proposition. This involves highlighting client success stories and addressing specific customer pain points. Additionally, utilizing storytelling techniques in communication can enhance emotional connections with clients. Financial advisors should focus on creating compelling content that resonates with their target audience's pain points. This can include blogs, videos, webinars, or newsletters that provide valuable insights into financial topics such as investment strategies, retirement planning, or debt management. Positioning themselves as authorities in these areas will foster trust and engagement. Financial advisors can measure the success of their StoryBrand implementation by identifying key performance indicators (KPIs) related to customer engagement metrics such as consultation bookings, newsletter sign-ups, and social media interactions. Continuous improvement based on client feedback and adapting to evolving market trends will also ensure ongoing effectiveness in their marketing strategies. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - **Clarity**: Helps advisors clarify their messaging, making it easy for potential clients to understand their services. - **Connection**: Fosters emotional connections through relatable narratives, establishing trust from the first interaction. - **Engagement**: Encourages potential clients to see themselves as the heroes of their financial journeys. - *Retirement Planning*: Many individuals worry about having enough savings to maintain their lifestyle. - *Debt Management*: Clients frequently struggle with high-interest debts and seek ways to manage or eliminate them. 1. Listening actively to client concerns. 2. Providing clear, jargon-free explanations that resonate with their experiences. - “Helping families achieve financial peace through tailored retirement strategies.” - “Guiding young professionals in managing debt and building wealth for a secure future.” - Conducting surveys or polls to gather direct insights from clients. - Hosting focus groups to discuss common obstacles in financial planning. - Engaging with potential clients on social media to identify recurring themes in their inquiries or concerns. - **Blogs:** Share tips on retirement planning or debt management, showcasing your expertise. - **Videos:** Create short, informative clips addressing common financial missteps or success stories from your clients. - **Social Media**: Share engaging content that resonates, such as success stories or educational posts. Platforms like LinkedIn and Instagram can showcase your expertise visually. - **Email Marketing**: Develop a nurturing sequence that provides valuable insights, updates, and personalized messages, keeping you top-of-mind with potential clients. - **Website Traffic**: Monitor visitor numbers to assess interest in your services. - **Lead Conversion Rate**: Measure how many inquiries turn into consultations or clients. - **Client Retention Rate**: Evaluate how well you maintain relationships with existing clients. - **Social Media Engagement**: Analyze likes, shares, and comments to gauge content resonance. - **Embrace Storytelling**: Use narrative techniques to create genuine connections with your audience. This approach has been proven to drive significant growth, as seen in the case of one agency owner whose shift from design to storytelling led to a remarkable 384% growth in business through authentic messaging. - **Implement the Framework**: Apply the seven elements of StoryBrand to clarify your messaging and articulate your value proposition. For instance, in the [Amplify Ambition podcast episode](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/amplify-ambition), expert Kris Jones shares valuable insights on how to craft compelling website copy that sells using the StoryBrand framework. - **Engage Effectively**: Use content that resonates with clients’ pain points and showcases your expertise. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover ### Title: Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ### Page ID: 6942916 ### Content: # Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ## Check our other articles ### 1\. First Impressions Matter ### 2\. The Importance of Design ### 3\. Make or Break Success ## Understanding the Power of the StoryBrand Framework ### 1\. Clarity of Message ### 2\. Customer-Centric Design ### 3\. Emotional Appeal ## Recognizing the Need for a Website Makeover ## Benefits Beyond Aesthetics: Why a StoryBrand Website Makeover Matters ### Tangible Benefits of a StoryBrand Makeover #### 1\. Improved SEO Rankings #### 2\. Enhanced User Experience ### Emotional Connection #### 3\. Building Trust #### 4\. Driving Action ### Comprehensive Client Experience #### 5\. Streamlined Services #### 6\. Boosting Team Morale ## Crafting Your Compelling Narrative: The Art of Persuasive Language ### 1\. Know Your Audience ### 2\. Use Emotional Triggers ### 3\. Tell a Story ### Practical Tips for Engaging Narratives ## Real-Life Success Stories: Kris Jones' Journey with Clients' Websites ### Inspiring Success Stories ### Client Testimonials ## Taking Action: Practical Steps Towards Your Own Website Makeover ### Step-by-Step Guide to Improve Website Clarity and Design ### Key Strategies for Increasing Traffic and Optimizing Conversions ## Investing Wisely: Balancing Cost vs. Return on Investment ### Key Considerations: ### ROI Strategy Implementation ## Ready to Transform Your Online Presence? Let's Get Started! ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### What is a StoryBrand website makeover and why is it important? ### How does the StoryBrand framework improve my website's effectiveness? ### What are the signs that my website needs a makeover? ### What are the tangible benefits of implementing a StoryBrand website makeover? ### How can persuasive language enhance my website's storytelling? ### What steps should I take to initiate my own StoryBrand website makeover? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging Hello! I’m Kris Jones, a Portland-based StoryBrand Guide dedicated to helping businesses thrive through effective web design. With over 23 years of experience crafting stories for brands like Nike and Adidas, I understand the critical role your website plays in your business success. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration In today's digital world, having an engaging website is not just nice to have; it’s a must. Here’s why: Your website is often the first interaction potential customers have with your brand. An outdated or confusing site can lead to missed leads and customers. A well-designed website isn’t just visually appealing; it’s a powerful marketing tool. It should clearly communicate your brand message, be easy to navigate, and resonate emotionally with visitors. In a competitive market, clarity and appeal are vital. A *StoryBrand website makeover* focuses on clarity and customer-centric design, transforming your online presence into something effective and beautiful. Investing in a StoryBrand website makeover can ignite passion, align your team, and ultimately drive results. This is where hiring a [StoryBrand Guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide) becomes crucial. A certified guide can help clarify your message and connect with your customers more effectively. Moreover, the [Freedom15](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/freedom15) strategy can turn Instagram into a selling machine while allowing you to strategically take a year off posting. If you're interested in creating a story-driven website that works 24/7, I invite you to explore my approach outlined in this article on how to [turn your website into your best salesperson](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/branded-2). This design and messaging framework has helped business owners increase their rates by 600%. Ultimately, the goal is to create a website that tells your story and attracts your ideal clients using the [StoryBrand Strategy](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/). Let’s dive deeper into how this framework works! Donald Miller's StoryBrand framework is a game changer for businesses seeking clarity in their messaging. It simplifies complex ideas into clear, relatable narratives that connect with customers on an emotional level. Here’s how it works: The framework helps businesses define their core message in a way that resonates with potential clients. Instead of getting lost in jargon and complicated terms, your audience quickly grasps what you offer and why it matters to them. A website built using the StoryBrand principles isn't just pretty; it’s designed with the customer in mind. Every element— from visuals to navigation— serves a purpose. This approach fosters engagement and keeps visitors on your site longer. By focusing on storytelling, the framework taps into the emotions that drive decision-making. When customers feel understood, they are more likely to take action, whether that's making a purchase or signing up for a newsletter. The impact of customer-centric design cannot be overstated. It builds trust, enhances user experience, and ultimately drives conversions. A website that effectively communicates your brand story can transform casual visitors into loyal customers. With the right application of this framework, you can create a website that not only looks good but also performs exceptionally well in achieving your business goals. For instance, [StoryBrand principles have been successfully applied to nonprofit websites](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples), demonstrating the versatility and effectiveness of this approach across different sectors. An **outdated website** can do more than just look unappealing. It can directly impact your business by causing missed leads and customers. Consider these consequences: Transforming your online presence through a well-executed website makeover is essential. Here’s how it can benefit you: Investing in a website makeover could be the catalyst for change that propels your business forward. Your digital storefront deserves to reflect the quality and value you provide. Don't let an outdated design hinder your business growth; instead, leverage strategies such as the [Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-mark) which turns websites into 24/7 sales machines while you focus on what matters most. Implementing the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover) on your website isn’t just about looking good. It’s a strategic move that yields significant *returns*. A well-structured website enhances your visibility in search results. When your content aligns with search engine algorithms, you attract more organic traffic. Increased visibility leads to *higher potential sales and revenue*. Navigation should be intuitive. Visitors must find what they're looking for quickly. A thoughtfully designed customer journey transforms casual browsers into loyal customers. This fosters *trust and loyalty*, encouraging repeat business. When clients feel understood, they’re more likely to engage with your brand. An effective website communicates empathy and awareness of their needs, making them feel valued. Persuasive language and visuals guide visitors toward taking action. Whether it’s signing up for a newsletter or making a purchase, each element on your site is crafted to lead them down the path to conversion. Clarity in messaging allows clients to understand exactly what you offer. This minimizes confusion during the buying process, leading to higher satisfaction rates. A cohesive brand message not only attracts customers but also unifies your team. When everyone understands the narrative, collaboration improves, reducing miscommunication. Investing in a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/web-design) taps into emotional decision-making processes, aligning your online presence with the expectations and desires of your target audience. The result? A powerful marketing tool that drives results and propels your business forward. Crafting a website that resonates with visitors hinges on the power of *persuasive language*. This technique transforms ordinary content into an engaging conversation that captivates your audience. It’s not just about what you say; it’s how you say it. Here’s how to harness this art effectively: Understand their pain points, desires, and motivations. Tailor your messaging to speak directly to their needs. Words have the power to evoke feelings. Incorporating emotional language creates a connection that encourages users to take action. Weave narratives that reflect your brand's journey and values. A compelling story helps potential clients see themselves within your message, making them feel understood and excited about your offerings. By implementing these strategies, you'll develop a narrative that not only showcases your brand but also fosters engagement and drives conversions. Visitors will feel compelled to act, knowing you truly understand their journey and are ready to guide them toward solutions tailored just for them. For more insights on how to elevate your brand story with impactful website copy, consider listening to this [eye-opening chat](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/confident-woman) featuring Rachel Brooks and Kris Jones. They share practical tips and expert advice that can transform your business narrative. Additionally, if you're looking to unlock the secrets to magnetic sales copy that captivates and converts ideal clients, check out this discussion with Kris Jones and Marion Wagner on [compelling sales copy strategies](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head). Transformative stories from my clients showcase the power of a StoryBrand website makeover. Each journey reflects a shift from confusion to clarity, resulting in tangible outcomes that elevate their online presence. These stories reflect how a well-executed StoryBrand makeover can enhance not only aesthetic appeal but also drive real business results. Increased confidence in your online presence often translates into higher conversion rates and revenue growth. Each client’s narrative serves as a reminder of what’s possible when clarity meets creativity, empowering businesses to thrive in their respective markets. For those looking for more insights on business storytelling and brand messaging, I recommend checking out the [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) hosted by LaChelle Wieme and myself, Kris Jones. Transforming your website into a StoryBrand powerhouse requires thoughtful steps. Here’s how to kick off your makeover and make sure it shines. By following these steps, you can initiate a powerful website makeover that not only enhances clarity and design but also positions you for increased traffic and conversions. Embrace this opportunity to align every element of your site with the StoryBrand framework, crafting an online presence that genuinely resonates with potential clients. If you're struggling with a confusing website that's losing clients, it might be time to consider professional help such as [Red Door Designs](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/thankyou), which specializes in turning websites into 24/7 sales machines through effective storytelling. Making a significant investment in a StoryBrand website makeover can seem daunting. Understanding the potential return on investment (ROI) can help clarify this decision. Investing in your website isn't just about immediate expenses. It's about envisioning long-term growth and sustainability for your business. The transformation from confusion to clarity through your new website can catalyze growth. Analyze these factors closely to ensure you're making an informed decision that aligns with your business goals. For more insights on how storytelling can enhance your business and drive growth, listen to this episode of the [She Built It Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it), featuring Red Door Designs CEO Kris Jones. She shares practical tips on creating engaging stories that hook your audience and boost sales. Are you ready to elevate your business with a **StoryBrand website makeover**? This transformation is essential for any organization aiming to thrive in today's competitive landscape. A story-driven approach not only clarifies your brand message but also connects with customers on an emotional level. Don't let confusion or outdated design hold you back. Embrace the opportunity to captivate your audience and drive results. To further enhance your online presence, consider exploring powerful copywriting techniques. For instance, [discover powerful copywriting secrets](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-sells) that can boost your business. Tune into our latest podcast episode where Elyse Archer and Kris Jones share invaluable copywriting tips that can transform your business strategy, helping you engage your audience effectively and skyrocket your conversions! A StoryBrand website makeover involves redesigning your website using the principles of Donald Miller's StoryBrand framework. This approach focuses on clarifying your brand messaging and creating a customer-centric design that resonates emotionally with visitors. In today's digital landscape, having a compelling website can make or break your business's success. The StoryBrand framework helps clarify your brand messaging, ensuring that it speaks directly to your target audience. By focusing on customer-centric design, your website can effectively guide visitors through their journey, increasing engagement and conversion rates. If your website is outdated, confusing, or failing to convert visitors into leads or customers, it's time for a makeover. An ineffective site can lead to missed opportunities and potential customers slipping through the cracks. Implementing the StoryBrand framework can lead to improved SEO rankings, increased visibility in search results, and ultimately boost sales and revenue. Additionally, a well-designed customer journey enhances service experiences, fostering loyalty and trust in your brand. Persuasive language plays a crucial role in captivating visitors and guiding them towards taking action. By crafting an engaging narrative that resonates with potential clients, you can make them feel understood and excited about what you offer. Start by improving clarity and design elements that align with your brand message. Focus on key strategies to enhance traffic to your newly revamped site while ensuring it remains optimized for conversions. A step-by-step guide will help you navigate this transformative process effectively. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - **First Impressions Matter**: Visitors often form an opinion about your business within seconds of landing on your site. A cluttered or confusing design may drive them away before they even learn what you offer. - **Lost Opportunities**: An unclear message can lead potential customers to slip through the cracks. If they can't easily navigate your site or understand your offerings, they'll likely turn to competitors who provide a smoother experience. - **Trust Issues**: Outdated designs can breed skepticism. Customers may question the credibility of a business that appears out of touch with modern standards. - **Effective Marketing Tool**: A beautifully designed website acts as a powerful marketing tool, showcasing your brand in a way that resonates with your audience. By incorporating storytelling into your marketing strategy, you can transform scattered marketing efforts into one powerful narrative that resonates with your audience, much like the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand) that has helped many entrepreneurs scale their businesses significantly. - **Enhanced User Experience**: Simplified navigation and clear messaging guide users effortlessly toward conversion points, increasing engagement and satisfaction. For instance, if you're struggling with website copywriting, expert guidance could help you craft compelling content that attracts your ideal clients effortlessly. You might find valuable insights from this [podcast episode on enhancing website copywriting skills](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/talk-with-renee-dalo). - **Boosted Confidence**: A fresh, modern look not only attracts new customers but also reignites passion within your team, fostering unity and motivation. 1. **Be Authentic**: Transparency builds trust. Share real experiences and insights that resonate with potential clients. 2. **Create a Clear Call to Action**: Guide your visitors on the next steps. Whether it's signing up for a newsletter or making a purchase, clarity is key. 3. **Keep it Simple**: Use straightforward language. Avoid jargon that might confuse or alienate readers. 4. - **Dominick Nusdeu**: After implementing the StoryBrand framework, Dominick experienced a remarkable **95% sales call success rate**. The clarity in his messaging made prospects feel understood and connected, leading to higher conversion rates. This success was achieved through the [StoryBrand Framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change), which taught him how to craft a signature story that converts. - **Andrea Giles Coach**: Andrea embraced her new website design and saw her confidence soar. The engaging narrative not only attracted more visitors but also helped convert them into loyal clients. Her transformation illustrates how a clear message can resonate deeply with the audience. You can read more about her transformation in this [Client Transformation Spotlight](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrea). - **Mikki Garner Coach**: Mikki found the right words to express her services, which boosted her confidence immensely. Post-makeover, she saw a noticeable increase in inquiries and bookings, showcasing how effective storytelling can impact client engagement. 1. **Define Your Brand Message** 2. Clearly articulate what you offer, who you serve, and the problem you solve. This clarity is the foundation of your website. 3. **Utilize the StoryBrand Framework** 4. Apply Donald Miller’s principles to structure your content. Focus on the customer as the hero of the story, with your brand as the guide. 5. **Revamp Visual Elements** 6. Ensure that your design reflects your brand identity. Use colors, fonts, and images that resonate with your audience and enhance readability. 7. **Enhance Navigation** 8. Simplify user experience by creating an intuitive layout. Visitors should find what they need quickly without confusion. 9. **Incorporate Persuasive Language** 10. Craft compelling copy that speaks directly to your audience's pain points. Use action-oriented language to encourage engagement. - **SEO Optimization** - Invest time in keyword research relevant to your business. Incorporate these keywords naturally throughout your site to improve search visibility. - **Content Marketing** - Create valuable content such as blogs or guides related to your offerings. This not only drives traffic but establishes credibility in your niche. - **Social Media Integration** - Promote your new website across social platforms. Share engaging snippets or visuals that link back to key pages on your site. - **Call-to-Actions (CTAs)** - Strategically place CTAs throughout your site to guide visitors toward desired actions, such as signing up for a newsletter or making a purchase. Consider incorporating [these effective CTAs](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/click) into your strategy for better results. - **Initial Costs**: - Assess the costs involved in a comprehensive website overhaul, which may include design, copywriting, and ongoing maintenance. - **Expected Returns**: - Increased sales through a more engaging user experience. - Enhanced client engagement driven by clearer messaging and emotional connection. - Improved SEO performance leading to higher visibility and traffic. - **Sales Growth**: A well-crafted site can lead to higher conversion rates, turning visitors into paying customers. - **Brand Loyalty**: An engaging customer journey fosters trust, encouraging repeat business and referrals. - **Team Alignment**: Clear messaging boosts internal communication, streamlining processes that contribute to a cohesive company culture. - **Take action now.** A clear, engaging website can be your most powerful marketing tool. - **Reach out today.** Together, we can embark on this transformative journey, ensuring your online presence reflects the clarity and confidence you deserve. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-to-decide-whether-or-not-to-redesign-your-logo ### Title: How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ### Page ID: 6943079 ### Content: # How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ## Check our other articles ## Understanding the Role of Your Logo ### 1\. Establishing Brand Identity ### 2\. Driving Business Growth ### 3\. Enhancing Client Connection ## Signs It Might Be Time for a Redesign ### Evaluating Current Brand Perception #### 1\. Gather Feedback #### The Storytelling Connection ### Competition and Market Trends #### 1\. Competitive Analysis #### 2\. Design Trends ## Benefits of Redesigning Your Logo ### Enhancing Brand Recognition ### Connecting More Deeply with Your Audience ### Building Trust Through Visuals #### How an Updated Logo Builds Trust #### The Role of Empathy in Creating Resonant Visuals ## Steps to Consider Before Redesigning Your Logo ### Conduct Thorough Research ### Assess Internal Readiness ### Crafting Your Signature Story ## Case Study: Andrea's Transformation ### Key changes included: ### The results were significant: ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### Why is a logo important for branding? ### What are the signs that indicate it might be time to redesign my logo? ### How can I evaluate my current brand perception before deciding on a logo redesign? ### What benefits can I expect from redesigning my logo? ### What steps should I consider before moving forward with a logo redesign? ### Can you provide an example of how effective storytelling impacts branding through logos? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging Your logo is more than just a graphic; it’s the cornerstone of your brand identity. A well-designed business logo communicates who you are, what you stand for, and helps forge connections with your audience. It’s often the first impression potential clients have of your brand. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration Deciding **whether or not to redesign your logo** can feel daunting. Consider these key points: This process isn’t just about looks; it’s about aligning with your brand's story and ensuring that your visual identity resonates with your ideal audience. In fact, a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover) can significantly enhance this alignment by simplifying your message and making it more relatable to your audience. By understanding these elements, you'll be equipped to make informed decisions that can propel your branding forward. Moreover, incorporating effective storytelling into your website through [Red Door's StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/click) could turn it into a 24/7 sales machine while you focus on what matters most. A logo is more than just a visual symbol; it’s a cornerstone of your brand identity. It encapsulates your values, mission, and personality in a single image. Here’s why its role is crucial: A well-designed logo conveys who you are as a business. It creates an immediate recognition factor, setting the tone for customer interactions. Think of brands like Nike with its iconic swoosh. Instantly recognizable, it represents athleticism and aspiration. A strong logo can be a catalyst for growth. It fosters trust and credibility, making clients more likely to engage with your services. For instance, Adidas’ three stripes symbolize quality and performance, resonating deeply with their target audience. Logos act as emotional triggers. They can evoke feelings and memories associated with your brand, strengthening client loyalty. When customers see the Starbucks mermaid, they don't just see a logo; they experience the comfort of their favorite coffee shop. Your logo plays an essential role in shaping perceptions and driving connections that lead to business success. However, it's not just about having a logo; it's about how you leverage it within your overall business strategy. This is where powerful copywriting comes into play. [Discover powerful copywriting secrets](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-sells) that can boost your business by engaging your audience effectively and skyrocket your conversions. As we dive deeper into this topic, recognizing when to refresh this vital asset becomes key. Sometimes, a simple update to your logo or website design can work wonders. For instance, [turning your website into your best salesperson](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/branded-2) can significantly increase your engagement rates. Or you could explore transformative insights on [business storytelling and brand messaging](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) which empower entrepreneurs to achieve success. Moreover, if you're in the nonprofit sector, applying the StoryBrand principle to your website could be beneficial. Check out these examples of [successful StoryBrand nonprofit websites](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples) for inspiration on how to enhance your online presence. Understanding the importance of redesigning a logo starts with evaluating how your current logo is perceived. This perception shapes the identity of your brand and its connection to your audience. Your logo plays an essential role in shaping perceptions and driving connections that lead to business success. However, it's not just about having a logo; it's about how you leverage it within your overall business strategy. This is where powerful copywriting comes into play. [Discover powerful copywriting secrets](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-sells) that can boost your business by engaging your audience effectively and skyrocket your conversions. As we dive deeper into this topic, recognizing when to refresh this vital asset becomes key. Sometimes, a simple update to your logo or website design can work wonders. For instance, [turning your website into your best salesperson](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/branded-2) can significantly increase your engagement rates. Or you could explore transformative insights on [business storytelling and brand messaging](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) which empower entrepreneurs to achieve success. Moreover, if you're in the nonprofit sector, applying the StoryBrand principle to your website could be beneficial. Check out these examples of [successful StoryBrand nonprofit websites](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples) for inspiration on how to enhance your online presence. The power of storytelling for business cannot be understated. A well-crafted signature story connects emotionally with potential clients, making them feel seen and understood. If your logo fails to encapsulate this narrative, it might hinder your ability to attract the right audience. Every element of your branding should work harmoniously, reinforcing your signature story while keeping clarity at its core. When evaluating whether it's time for a redesign, reflect on these aspects closely; they form the foundation upon which effective branding stands strong. If you're uncertain about how to effectively convey your brand's message or connect with your customers, hiring a [StoryBrand guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide) could be beneficial. A certified guide can help clarify your message and enhance client relationships by aligning your branding elements with the values you wish to project. Moreover, if you're looking for ways to turn your website into an effective sales machine while focusing on what matters most, consider exploring [web design services](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/web-design) that specialize in creating user-friendly and conversion-oriented websites. The world of branding is always changing. To understand why it's important to redesign a logo, you need to closely watch what your competitors are doing with their branding. Here are some key things to think about: Make it a habit to regularly evaluate how your competitors present themselves. Are they connecting with your target audience? Remember, an effective logo plays a crucial role in establishing your position in the market. Stay informed about design trends that align with your brand identity. An outdated design or style can lose its appeal, while contemporary aesthetics can draw in new clients. Sometimes, changes in your business direction or target audience may require you to create a new image. Your logo should reflect your current story and connect with the evolving expectations of your audience. The power of storytelling in branding is immense. A logo isn't just a picture; it's part of your unique story, capturing the essence of what you provide. By aligning your logo with effective storytelling techniques, you can enhance your marketing strategy and forge stronger connections with clients. Redesigning your logo can bring significant advantages that elevate your brand's presence in the market. Here’s how: A modernized visual identity captures attention. As trends evolve, a fresh logo can make your brand stand out. Think about how companies like Apple and Starbucks have redefined their logos over time to maintain relevance while enhancing recognition. Aligning your logo design with your brand’s narrative fosters a stronger connection with clients. When your logo reflects the essence of your story, it resonates emotionally. This emotional connection encourages loyalty and engagement, making clients feel important and understood. Trust is vital in any business relationship. An updated logo signals that you are evolving and staying relevant in today’s market landscape. It indicates professionalism and attention to detail, which potential clients find reassuring. Empathy in design means understanding what matters to your audience. By incorporating elements that reflect their values or aspirations, your logo becomes more than just a graphic; it tells a story that resonates on a personal level. This approach not only builds trust but also inspires action. A clear, compelling story inspires clients to choose your services over competitors. When considering a redesign, think about how these benefits align with your goals. If you're ready to [learn how to create a signature story for branding](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand) and leverage marketing with story, remember that the right visuals can make all the difference in connecting authentically with your audience. Additionally, enhancing your website copy can significantly improve how you tell your brand story, which is something you can achieve by following some expert advice from this [podcast episode](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/talk-with-renee-dalo) on crafting compelling website copy that resonates with your audience and drives results. Redesigning your logo is a significant decision. Take a moment to evaluate these crucial steps before diving in. Understanding the implications of a redesign is vital. Here’s how to gather insights: A successful transition hinges on internal preparedness. Consider: Your signature story is a core component of any rebranding effort, including your logo. Every piece of content—whether on your website, social media, or promotional materials—should tell a clear, compelling story. This approach builds trust and resonates emotionally with potential clients, making them feel seen and valued. Taking these steps lays a solid foundation for an impactful logo redesign that not only enhances visual appeal but also deepens connections with your audience. Additionally, if you're struggling to convey your story effectively through your website, consider collaborating with professionals who specialize in transforming websites into powerful sales tools using their [signature story-selling system](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/work-with-me). Such an approach can significantly boost profits while allowing you more time to focus on what truly matters in your business. Andrea's journey highlights the power of aligning branding with client-focused storytelling. Initially, her website language centered around her services, creating a disconnect with potential clients. Kris helped Andrea shift from self-focused to client-focused website language. This transformation emphasized how her offerings could solve real problems for her audience, making them feel important and understood. This case illustrates how thoughtful redesigns—whether in logo or overall branding—can enhance connection and drive growth. Aligning visual identity with a relatable story not only modernizes your brand but can also resonate deeply with your target audience. To achieve such transformative results, it's crucial to understand the [compelling sales copy strategies](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head) that can enhance your brand's storytelling and help captivate and convert your ideal clients. A logo plays a crucial role in establishing brand identity, contributing to business growth, and creating connections with clients. It serves as the visual representation of your brand, making it memorable and recognizable in a competitive market. Signs that it may be time for a logo redesign include outdated design elements, changes in your business direction or target audience, negative client feedback regarding your current logo, and shifts in market trends that necessitate an updated image. To evaluate your current brand perception, gather feedback from clients about their views on your existing logo. Analyze how well it conveys your signature story and aligns with your overall brand message. Redesigning your logo can enhance brand recognition through a modernized visual identity, foster deeper connections with your audience by aligning design with your narrative, and build trust and credibility with potential clients. Before redesigning your logo, conduct thorough research to understand the implications of the change. Assess internal readiness and resource availability for a successful transition, and develop your signature story to ensure consistency across all branding elements. A case study involving Andrea illustrates how shifting from self-focused to client-focused messaging can transform branding. By aligning her logo and overall branding strategy with client-centered storytelling, she achieved increased engagement and resonance with her audience. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - **Assessing Relevance**: Does your current logo reflect your brand's evolution? - **Feedback Gathering**: What do clients and stakeholders think of your design? - **Market Trends**: How does your logo stack up against competitors? 1. When to consider a redesign 2. The signs that indicate it's time for change 3. The benefits of an updated logo that speaks volumes about who you are as a business - Reach out to clients and ask for their thoughts on your logo. What feelings does it evoke? Does it resonate with them? Gather insights through surveys or informal conversations. - Consider creating a focus group that includes both loyal customers and new prospects. Their perspectives can shed light on whether your logo aligns with their expectations. - Understanding the Role of Your Logo - A logo is more than just a visual symbol; it’s a cornerstone of your brand identity. It encapsulates your values, mission, and personality in a single image. Here’s why its role is crucial: - Signs It Might Be Time for a Redesign - Evaluating Current Brand Perception - Understanding the importance of redesigning a logo starts with evaluating how your current logo is perceived. This perception shapes the identity of your brand and its connection to your audience. Here are ways to assess this critical aspect: - Reach out to clients and ask for their thoughts on your logo. What feelings does it evoke? Does it resonate with them? Gather insights through surveys or informal conversations. - Consider creating a focus group that includes both loyal customers and new prospects. Their perspectives can shed light on whether your logo aligns with their expectations. - Examine whether the design elements—colors, fonts, imagery—reflect the essence of your brand’s narrative. A logo should tell a story at a glance. - **Client Stories Matter**: Share anecdotes about how clients perceive not just your logo but what it represents. For instance, if you help others navigate challenges (like [Andrea who helps women through infidelity](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrea)), ensure that this theme resonates in your visual branding. - **Assess Brand Alignment**: Look beyond aesthetics; consider if the logo aligns with the values you want to project. Does it communicate trust, empathy, and authority? These qualities foster deeper connections and enhance client relationships. - **Market Analysis:** Explore competitors’ branding. What works for them? What doesn’t? Identify trends that resonate with your target audience. - **Client Feedback:** Engage with your clients. Ask them about their perception of your current logo and what it conveys about your brand. - **Design Trends:** Stay informed about evolving design aesthetics. Effective storytelling techniques often include modern visuals that align with current tastes. 1. **Resource Availability:** Do you have the budget and time required for the redesign process? 2. **Team Buy-In:** Ensure your team understands and supports the change. A unified front will facilitate smoother implementation. 3. **Alignment with Goals:** Confirm that the redesign aligns with your broader business objectives. - **Developing the Narrative:** Create a compelling narrative that highlights the value you provide. Identify who the hero is (your client) and how you guide them through their challenges using the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/wantrepreneur), which has helped entrepreneurs scale from 30K to 300K months with less effort. - *Key Components:*The hero facing a problem - The guide offering a clear plan - A strong call to action - **Consistency Across Platforms:** Ensure all elements, including your new logo, reflect this narrative consistently. This reinforces brand identity and strengthens connections with your audience. - **Refining the message**: The new narrative positioned Andrea as a guide, allowing clients to see the value in her expertise. - **Crafting a compelling story**: Her website addressed client pain points, showcasing how she could help women navigate infidelity with empathy and authority. - Increased program sign-ups - More engagement through calls - An impressive 95% close rate on sales conversations - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/is-it-time-for-a-brand-redesign-heres-how-to-tell ### Title: Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ### Page ID: 6943147 ### Content: # Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ## Check our other articles ## Is It Time for a Brand Redesign? Here’s How to Tell. ### 1\. Outdated Brand Identity ### 2\. Inconsistent Messaging ### 3\. Declining Customer Engagement ### 4\. Shifts in Target Audience ## The Power of Storytelling in Branding ### 1\. Crafting Your Signature Story ### 2\. Understanding Your Clients' Journey ### 3\. Implementing Effective Frameworks ### 4\. Optimizing Your Website for Storytelling ### 5\. Creating Emotional Connections Through Storytelling ## Steps to Redesign Your Brand with Storytelling Strategy ### 1\. Analyze Your Current Brand Performance ### 2\. Define Your New Narrative with Client-Focused Language #### 1\. Understand Your Audience #### 2\. Use Client-Focused Language #### 3\. Craft a Clear Message #### 4\. Highlight Transformation ### 3\. Implement Your New Story Across Platforms for Cohesive Branding #### 1\. Website #### 2\. Social Media #### 3\. Email Marketing #### 4\. Visual Branding ## Real-Life Success Stories: Inspiring Case Studies of Brand Redesigns ### Case Study 1: Andrea Giles Coach - From Self-Focused to Client-Focused Language ### Case Study 2: Dominick Nusdeu Fitness Expert - Crafting a Signature Story That Converts Leads into Clients #### Crafting the Narrative #### Impressive Results ## Embrace Change for Sustained Growth Through Ongoing Brand Evolution! ## Explore Our Services at Red Door Designs To Get Started! ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### How can I tell if it's time for a brand redesign? ### What role does storytelling play in branding? ### What are the steps involved in a brand redesign process? ### Can you provide examples of successful brand redesigns? ### How can I integrate my new brand story across different platforms? ### What services does Redd Door Designs offer for brand redesign? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging Is it time for a brand redesign? Discover the signs and learn how storytelling can drive your business growth effectively. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration A brand redesign is not just about aesthetics; it's crucial for staying relevant in a fast-paced market. Consider these key elements: Harnessing the power of storytelling can transform not only your brand but also your business trajectory. Recognizing the signs it's time for a brand redesign can significantly impact your business's success. Consider the following indicators: If your visual elements feel stuck in the past or don’t resonate with your audience, it’s a clear signal for change. A [brand redesign](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand) could revitalize your image and better connect with your target market. When your brand voice varies across platforms, confusion arises. Consistency builds trust; inconsistency undermines it. This is where aligning your messaging through a comprehensive strategy becomes crucial. Are you noticing fewer interactions on social media or lower website traffic? A drop in engagement often reflects a disconnect between your messaging and your audience's needs. [Improving your website](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/thankyou) can turn it into a 24/7 sales machine, boosting profits while allowing you more time to focus on what matters. Markets evolve. If your ideal clients have changed or shifted their preferences, aligning your brand with these new realities is essential. Identifying these signs early helps maintain relevance and competitiveness in the marketplace. Ignoring them can lead to missed opportunities and stagnation. Your brand should evolve alongside your audience, reflecting their aspirations and challenges. This proactive approach keeps your business aligned with market dynamics and customer expectations, ensuring that you remain a key player in your industry. Storytelling is crucial for branding as it helps businesses create emotional connections with clients. It goes beyond just sharing information; it taps into feelings and experiences. A powerful story resonates, making your brand unforgettable. The core of your branding strategy lies in your signature story. The key is to position your client as the hero of the story, while you, as the business owner, take on the role of the guide. [Hiring a certified StoryBrand guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide) can greatly improve this process by assisting you in clarifying your message and establishing a stronger connection with your customers. Clients encounter challenges and actively seek solutions. Your story should depict their journey, highlighting how your services empower them to overcome obstacles. This approach not only builds trust but also fosters a sense of belonging. When clients see themselves reflected in your narrative, they are more likely to connect with your brand on a deeper level. Additionally, utilizing a proven framework like the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change) can help you craft a signature story that drives conversions, transforming your narrative into sales. It's about establishing a relationship that feels genuine and relatable. To further strengthen this relationship, it's essential to have a website that effectively communicates your story. A confusing website can result in losing potential clients. However, by implementing the [StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/work-with-me), you can revamp your website into a 24/7 sales machine while you concentrate on what matters most. Remember, storytelling isn't merely about recounting experiences; it's about forging an emotional connection that drives engagement and conversion. With the right strategies and resources, such as those provided by [Red Door Designs](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/), you can transform your website into your most effective salesperson and significantly increase your profits. Understanding your current brand performance is the first crucial step in the journey of redesigning your brand. This analysis will reveal where you stand and guide you toward areas needing improvement. Here are some effective tools and methods to assess your brand's effectiveness: Assessing these areas provides a clear picture of where your brand stands. Identifying weaknesses early enables timely adjustments, ensuring you remain relevant in a competitive market. A thorough understanding of your brand's current performance sets the foundation for crafting an impactful narrative that resonates with clients, positioning them as heroes in their own stories while you take on the role of their trusted guide. Creating a compelling narrative is essential in the brand redesign process. This new story must resonate deeply with your audience, using language that speaks directly to their needs and experiences. Here’s how to approach this step: Conduct interviews or surveys to gather insights about your clients’ pain points, aspirations, and preferences. This information shapes your narrative. Shift from self-centered messaging to a language that positions your clients as heroes of their own stories. Acknowledge their challenges and present your brand as the guiding light that offers solutions. Focus on clarity and simplicity. Avoid jargon. Instead, use relatable terms that build immediate trust and connection. Emphasize how your services improve lives or solve specific problems. Stories that illustrate tangible benefits encourage engagement. Incorporating storytelling into your brand narrative isn’t just beneficial; it’s transformative. As you define this new story, keep client-focused language at the forefront, ensuring it remains consistent across all platforms. This approach enhances memorability, builds rapport, and fosters long-term relationships with clients. Integrating your newly crafted story across various platforms ensures a cohesive brand experience. Here are essential steps to achieve this: Your website serves as the cornerstone of your branding. It's crucial to use clear headlines and engaging visuals that reflect your new narrative. Each section should resonate with your audience's needs, making them feel understood. If you're struggling with crafting impactful website copy, consider seeking expert advice from professionals who specialize in [elevating brand stories through effective website copy](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/confident-woman). Craft posts that echo your signature story. Consistency is key; use similar language and themes to create a recognizable voice. Share client testimonials, success stories, and insights that reinforce your brand message. Incorporate storytelling elements into your email campaigns. Start with a compelling subject line that draws attention, followed by content that connects emotionally with readers. Highlight how you can solve their problems while positioning them as the hero of their own journey. Ensure visual elements, such as colors, fonts, and images, align with your narrative. This reinforces recognition and strengthens emotional connections. By leveraging cross-platform integration strategies, you maintain consistency for memorability. An effective brand redesign process involves these steps, using storytelling to unify all aspects of your branding efforts. Each channel should work harmoniously to amplify your message and engage potential clients effectively. For those looking to enhance their website's performance and turn it into a [24/7 sales machine](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/paypal), or if you're seeking guidance on improving your website copywriting skills to attract ideal clients effortlessly, there are numerous [free resources available](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/free-resources-copy) that can provide valuable insights and strategies. Andrea Giles, a dedicated coach, found herself at a pivotal moment. Her original messaging focused heavily on her qualifications and experiences. While this was informative, it didn’t resonate with her ideal clients. Potential clients felt disconnected, unable to see how Andrea’s expertise directly applied to their needs. Recognizing the urgency for change, Andrea sought guidance to transform her approach. The shift was profound—she moved from self-focused language to a client-centered narrative. This new direction positioned her clients as the heroes of their own stories while Andrea became the trusted guide. Suddenly, her messaging was not just about what she could do; it concentrated on how she could empower her clients through their challenges. Key takeaways from Andrea's journey highlight essential strategies for others considering a brand redesign: Andrea’s transformation illustrates how a brand redesign focused on storytelling can lead to impressive coaching success stories. The transition from self-focus to client-focus is not just beneficial; it's essential for connecting authentically with your audience and driving growth in today’s competitive market. For more insights into successful brand transformations like Andrea's, explore other inspiring case studies such as [Donald](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-donald) and [Mark](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-mark), who also underwent significant brand redesigns with similar strategies. Additionally, if you're in the non-profit sector, consider applying the [StoryBrand principles](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples) to your website for better engagement and connection with your audience. In the fitness branding world, **Dominick Nusdeu** shows how a strong signature story can change a business. His journey demonstrates how effective storytelling can create an emotional connection with potential clients. Dominick focused on developing a narrative that highlighted his expertise while addressing the specific struggles faced by his audience. This approach positioned him not just as a fitness expert but as a relatable guide who understood their needs. His success is a testament to the power of [StoryBrand BrandScript](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/what-is-a-storybrand-brandscript), which is designed to turn confusing websites into 24/7 sales machines. After implementing his redesign, Dominick achieved a staggering **95% sales call success rate**. This metric speaks volumes about the transformation brought by his new story — it resonated deeply and encouraged prospects to engage confidently. These strategies not only enhanced his brand but also fostered trust, ultimately leading to significant coaching success through branding. The insights from this case study align closely with [powerful copywriting secrets](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-sells) that can transform business strategy and skyrocket conversions. Moreover, they reflect the broader trend of replacing scattered marketing efforts with a [signature story](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/wantrepreneur) that resonates with the target audience. Change isn't something to fear; it’s a chance to thrive. In today's fast-paced marketplace, **future-proofing your business through branding evolution** is essential. As you navigate this transformation, remember that each shift can cultivate trust and engagement. Your willingness to adapt positions you as a leader, ready to meet the evolving needs of your clients. Stay open to change and watch your brand flourish! Are you asking yourself, “Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell”? At [Red Door Designs](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/), we offer comprehensive **branding support services** tailored to elevate your business. Our services include: If you feel uncertain or overwhelmed during your branding journey, we're here to help. Our expertise extends to providing a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover), transforming your vision into a compelling brand that resonates with your audience. Reach out today and take the first step towards revitalizing your brand! There are several signs that indicate it might be time for a brand redesign. Look for an outdated visual identity, inconsistent messaging across different platforms, declining customer engagement levels, and shifts in your target audience. Recognizing these signs early is crucial to staying relevant and competitive in the market. Storytelling is a powerful tool in branding as it helps create emotional connections with clients. A compelling narrative positions your client as the hero of the story while you, as the business owner, serve as their guide. This approach fosters deeper relationships and enhances brand loyalty. The brand redesign process typically involves three key steps: 1) Analyze Your Current Brand Performance using various tools and client feedback; 2) Define Your New Narrative using client-focused language that resonates with your audience; and 3) Implement Your New Story Across Platforms to ensure cohesive branding. Yes! Two notable case studies include Andrea Giles Coach, who transformed her messaging to be more client-focused, resulting in increased program sign-ups, and Dominick Nusdeu Fitness Expert, who crafted a signature story leading to a remarkable 95% sales call success rate post-redesign. To integrate your new story effectively across various channels like your website and social media, focus on maintaining consistency in messaging and visuals. This ensures that your audience recognizes and remembers your brand easily. Redd Door Designs offers comprehensive branding support services tailored to assist businesses throughout their branding endeavors. Whether you need guidance on storytelling strategies or assistance with implementing a cohesive brand identity, we are here to help! *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - **Importance of a Brand Redesign**: Brands need to evolve as consumer preferences shift. - **Role of Storytelling in Branding**: A compelling story connects emotionally, setting your brand apart. You can explore more about the transformative power of business storytelling in the [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) hosted by LaChelle Wieme and Kris Jones, which offers valuable insights into brand messaging and storytelling. - **Strong Narrative Driving Business Growth**: When customers feel understood, they're more likely to engage and convert. To enhance your brand's storytelling and create magnetic sales copy that captivates your ideal clients, consider the strategies shared by Kris Jones and Marion Wagner in their guide on [compelling sales copy](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head). - **Client Feedback**: Engage directly with your clients through surveys or interviews. Ask them what they think about your brand, messaging, and overall experience. Their insights can unveil gaps between what you believe your brand represents and how it's perceived. - **Stakeholder Input**: Gather opinions from team members, partners, and other stakeholders who interact with your brand daily. Their perspectives can help identify inconsistencies or strengths that may go unnoticed. - **Brand Audits**: Conduct a comprehensive review of all branding elements—logos, color schemes, taglines, and content across platforms. This audit will help you pinpoint outdated visuals or messaging that no longer aligns with your objectives. - **Competitor Analysis**: Examine how similar brands portray themselves in the marketplace. What resonates with their audience? What strategies do they employ? This comparison can inspire new ideas or highlight practices to avoid. - **Social Media Metrics**: Analyze engagement metrics such as likes, shares, comments, and overall reach on social media platforms. Declining interaction rates may indicate a disconnect between your messaging and audience expectations. - **Website Analytics**: Tools like Google Analytics can help gauge visitor behavior on your site. High bounce rates or low conversion rates often suggest that the current branding fails to engage visitors effectively. - **Increased Program Sign-Ups**: After implementing the new messaging, Andrea saw a significant spike in sign-ups for her programs. Potential clients felt understood and motivated to take action. - **Higher Engagement Rates**: By focusing on client-centric language, she fostered deeper connections with her audience across various platforms. - **Understand Your Audience**: Dive deep into your clients' needs and pain points. What are they struggling with? How can you position yourself as the solution? - **Craft a Relatable Narrative**: Create a story that resonates emotionally. Clients want to feel seen and heard; make them the center of your message. - **Be Consistent Across Channels**: Implement your new narrative seamlessly across your website, social media, and marketing materials. Consistency builds trust and memorability. 1. **Identifying Pain Points**: He took time to understand the challenges his clients faced, allowing him to tailor his message effectively. 2. **Emotional Connection**: By weaving personal anecdotes into his narrative, he created an environment where potential clients felt seen and understood. 3. **Clear Call to Action**: Dominick's story ended with compelling invitations that motivated prospects to take the next step towards their fitness goals. - Embrace new strategies that keep your brand relevant. - Let storytelling be your guide in this journey, creating deeper emotional connections with your audience. - **Uncover Your Story**: With our [Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/red-door-stories), we help you reveal your unique narrative. - **Authentic Connections**: Leverage storytelling for deeper client connections, a strategy that our CEO Kris Jones elaborates on in the [She Built It Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it). - **Simplify to Amplify**: Focus on impactful strategies. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-to-finally-get-your-brand-redesign-project-off-the-ground ### Title: How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ### Page ID: 6943215 ### Content: # How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ## Check our other articles ## Understanding Brand Redesign ## The Power of Storytelling ## Implementing Effective Strategies ## Learning from Real-Life Success Stories ## Understanding Brand Redesign ### The Role of Storytelling in Brand Redesign #### Examples of Successful Brands Using Storytelling ### The Power of Professional Help ## The Role of Storytelling in Brand Redesign ### Key Components of Effective Storytelling ### Examples of Successful Storytelling ### How Businesses Can Use Storytelling ## Crafting Your Signature Story ### 1\. Identify Your Unique Narrative ### 2\. Shift Focus to Your Clients ### 3\. Utilize the Hero and Guide Framework ## Strategies for Effective Brand Redesigns ### 1\. Website Optimization ### 2\. Social Media Alignment ### 3\. Content Creation ### 4\. Email Marketing ### 5\. User Experience Considerations ## Case Study: Andrea's Journey Through Infidelity Coaching ## Implementing Your Brand Redesign Plan ### 1\. Define Your Timeline ### 2\. Resource Allocation ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging Hi there! I’m Kris Jones, a Portland-based Storybrand Guide dedicated to helping businesses with their brand strategy and redesign projects. Over the past 20 years, I've had the privilege of collaborating with clients like Nike and Adidas, witnessing firsthand how a well-executed brand redesign can transform a business. By harnessing the power of storytelling, I've helped many clients create resonant narratives that deeply connect with their audiences. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration Let’s dive into how to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground. To kick things off, it's essential to understand what a brand redesign entails. A brand redesign is not merely about changing your logo or color scheme; it's a comprehensive overhaul that involves redefining your business's identity and how it communicates with its audience. This process can greatly benefit from professional guidance. That's where a [Storybrand Guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide) comes in handy. With their expertise, you can clarify your message and forge stronger connections with your customers. One key aspect of a successful brand redesign is the use of storytelling. Storytelling is a powerful tool that can shape brand narratives in profound ways. It allows businesses to engage their audience on a deeper level, fostering stronger emotional connections. For some invaluable copywriting tips that can transform your business strategy, you might want to check out our latest podcast episode where Elyse Archer and I share [powerful copywriting secrets](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-sells) that can boost your business. While crafting your unique story, it's crucial to implement effective strategies that resonate with your audience. This is where our [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast) comes into play. Join LaChelle Wieme and me as we share transformative insights on business storytelling and brand messaging, empowering entrepreneurs to achieve success. Lastly, real-life success stories serve as a testament to the effectiveness of these strategies. For instance, Donald's journey through our [StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-donald) is an inspiring example of how a confusing website can be transformed into a 24/7 sales machine through compelling storytelling. Similarly, Mark's transformation story through the same system further emphasizes the potential of this approach in boosting profits while allowing business owners to focus on what truly matters. Embarking on a brand redesign project may seem daunting, but with the right guidance and strategies, it can lead to remarkable transformations. Let's explore these aspects further in the following sections. A brand redesign is more than just a fresh logo or updated colors. It’s a comprehensive overhaul that aligns your brand with your business goals and audience expectations. Investing in such a project can lead to significant **business growth**, making it essential for companies aiming to remain competitive in today’s market. At the heart of an effective brand redesign lies storytelling. It enhances your narrative, allowing your audience to connect on a deeper level. By weaving a compelling **signature story**, businesses can clarify their mission and values, making them more relatable. This process emphasizes the importance of empathy in understanding client needs and aspirations. Successful brands like **Nike** and **Adidas** have mastered this art. Both companies utilize storytelling to create emotional connections with their audiences. Nike’s “Just Do It” campaign inspires action while showcasing athletes' challenges and triumphs, positioning the brand as a supportive guide in their journeys. Adidas similarly crafts narratives around resilience and empowerment, resonating deeply with consumers. By focusing on empathy and storytelling, you can transform your brand identity into one that not only stands out but fosters genuine connections with your clients. This is where professional help can be invaluable. For instance, partnering with experts who specialize in crafting [signature stories](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/work-with-me) can turn your website into a 24/7 sales machine, freeing you up to concentrate on other important aspects of your business. Moreover, such professionals have a proven track record of transforming client experiences, as illustrated in the [transformation spotlight of one client](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-shonda), showcasing the effectiveness of their [signature story-selling system](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/freedom15) which also includes strategies for leveraging social media platforms like Instagram into powerful selling tools. A brand redesign that effectively utilizes storytelling and empathy not only elevates your brand's identity but also builds lasting relationships with clients, ultimately driving business success. Storytelling is a game changer in how businesses craft their identity. It transforms brand perception, making companies stand out in crowded markets. A compelling narrative can turn a mundane brand into a memorable one. Understanding the psychology behind client engagement is crucial. People connect with stories on an emotional level. When they see themselves in your narrative, trust builds naturally. This connection fosters loyalty and drives conversions. Companies like Nike and Adidas exemplify this approach, weaving powerful stories that resonate deeply with their audiences. By placing clients at the center of their narratives, these brands not only communicate their values but also inspire action and create lasting relationships. To harness the power of storytelling effectively, businesses can seek expert guidance on [crafting impactful website copy](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/talk-with-renee-dalo) that elevates their brand narrative. Engaging website copy is essential for capturing attention and driving results. Moreover, [unlocking business growth through storytelling](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it) can provide practical tips on creating engaging stories that not only hook your audience but also boost sales. Businesses should not underestimate the importance of compelling sales copy; [strategies for magnetic sales copy](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head) can significantly enhance brand storytelling to captivate and convert ideal clients. The right story can captivate potential customers, leading to increased visibility and success in the marketplace. Creating a compelling brand story is essential for differentiation in today's competitive landscape. Here’s how to create a brand story that resonates with your audience: Reflect on your journey. What challenges did you face? How did you overcome them? This personal touch can set you apart from competitors. Move away from self-centered narratives. Instead, highlight your clients' struggles and how you can help them. This client-centric approach builds trust and connection. Position your client as the hero of the story. You play the guide who provides the tools and insights needed for their success. For instance: Utilizing this framework not only engages potential clients but also fosters an emotional connection. People relate better to stories where they see themselves as heroes overcoming obstacles with guidance. When crafting your signature story, keep it authentic and relatable. Focus on clarity and brevity to ensure that your message cuts through the noise. With storytelling at the core of your brand redesign project, discover how [to improve sales through storytelling](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change) by transforming how potential clients perceive and engage with your business. To further enhance your brand's online presence, consider leveraging [the StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/wantrepreneur). This approach not only simplifies your marketing efforts but also turns your website into a powerful sales tool, making it more accessible and profitable for you. By using [storytelling in web design](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/web-design), you can create a user-friendly website that serves as a 24/7 sales machine, allowing you to focus on what truly matters while boosting profits. Integrating storytelling into your brand redesign can elevate your marketing strategy. Here are actionable strategies to consider: Your website should be more than just a digital brochure; it should [tell a cohesive story](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/branded-2). Use clear headers that communicate what you do, how it improves lives, and the next steps for potential clients. This clarity builds trust and encourages engagement. Consider implementing a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover) to turn your website into your best salesperson. Tailor content across platforms while maintaining a consistent narrative. Use visuals and captions that resonate with your audience's aspirations, ensuring they feel understood and valued. Focus on creating compelling content that aligns with your brand story. Blog posts, videos, and social media updates should reflect the hero-guide dynamic. Share client success stories to reinforce your role as a trusted guide. Craft newsletters that not only inform but also engage. Tell stories of transformation or share insights that highlight your expertise, reinforcing the connection with your audience. Prioritize user experience in design choices. A seamless journey from discovery to conversion enhances storytelling impact and keeps clients engaged. By weaving these strategies into your brand redesign, you'll create a narrative that captivates and converts across all channels. For more insights on creating a story-driven website that attracts your ideal clients, explore [Red Door Designs](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/), which specializes in using the StoryBrand strategy to create impactful websites. Meet Andrea, an infidelity coach who leveraged storytelling to completely transform her brand. Before our collaboration, her message was often lost in jargon and self-focused language. By applying the principles of effective storytelling, we shifted her narrative to be client-centered. Positioning herself as a *guide* in her clients' journeys was crucial. Instead of portraying herself as merely an authority figure, she embraced the role of empathetic mentor. This shift allowed potential clients to see themselves as the heroes of their stories. The focus became solving their problems rather than highlighting her credentials. The results? A website that connects deeply with her audience, leading to a 95% close rate during consultations. Andrea’s journey illustrates how integrating authority and empathy into your branding can create powerful connections with potential clients. The right story not only captivates but converts, proving that effective storytelling is essential for any brand redesign. For more on how Andrea achieved this transformation through the [StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-andrea), check out our detailed client transformation spotlight. Getting your brand redesign project off the ground requires a clear, actionable plan. Here’s how to set it up effectively: Establish specific deadlines for each phase of the project. This ensures accountability and keeps momentum alive. Identify what resources you'll need. This includes budget, team roles, and any external help like design firms or consultants. Key components must be present on your website or marketing materials: As you develop these components, keep in mind how they will enhance your sales conversion. A well-executed plan not only attracts attention but also creates lasting relationships with your audience, turning them into loyal clients. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - What a brand redesign is and its importance - The role of storytelling in shaping brand narratives - Practical steps for crafting your unique story - Strategies for effective implementation - Real-life success stories, including Andrea’s journey through infidelity coaching 1. **The Hero**: Your customer is the hero of the story, facing challenges that your brand can help solve. 2. **The Guide**: Your role as the business owner is to guide them through their journey with empathy and expertise. 3. **Call to Action**: Encourage customers to take steps toward solutions, creating clear pathways for engagement. - **Hero**: The client facing a challenge. - **Guide**: You, offering a clear plan (three actionable steps). - **Call to Action**: Encourage them to take the next step toward resolution. - **Increased Sign-Ups:** Andrea saw a significant boost in program enrollments. - **Improved Client Success Rates:** Clients reported higher satisfaction and better outcomes thanks to her tailored coaching approach. - **Clear Call to Action:** Her website now clearly communicates what visitors should do next. - **Empathy and Authority Balance:** Andrea's messaging resonates because it combines understanding with expertise, making clients feel valued. 1. **Clear Messaging**: Articulate the problem you solve and how you guide clients to success. This builds trust and connection. 2. **Visual Identity**: Ensure your logo, colors, and typography align with your new narrative. Consistency is key in customer engagement. 3. **Call to Action**: Make it easy for potential clients to take the next step, whether that's signing up for a newsletter or booking a consultation. - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/podcasts-2 ### Title: Interviews Featuring Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6943309 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/clients ### Title: Client Transformations ### Page ID: 6943323 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/healthy-hustle-2 ### Title: Storytelling That Sells: 3 Keys to a Website That Wins Clients, with Rachel Feldman & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6944666 ### Content: ## Storytelling That Sells: 3 Keys to a Website That Wins Clients ## The Healthy Hustle Podcast with Rachel Feldman Storytelling That Sells: 3 Keys to a Website That Wins Clients, with Rachel Feldman & Kris Jones Ever notice how the hardest thing to explain is the work you pour your heart into every day? (I've helped hundreds of coaches with this exact problem!) ?‍♀️ I recently sat down with Rachel Feldman on the Healthy Hustle Podcast to talk about something that could completely transform your business: your signature story. Here's the thing most coaches miss: Your ideal clients are desperately searching for someone who "gets them" — but when they land on your website, they're usually greeted with credentials and services instead of connection. They can’t see THEMSELVES in your story. So it’s no wonder those dream clients keep scrolling past you!  ? Why most websites fail to convert (hint: you might be making yourself the hero when you should be the guide) ? How to craft ONE powerful story that works across your website, social media, AND sales calls ⏰ My "do less but more effective" approach that's helped coaches raise their rates by 600% while spending LESS time on marketing Running a client-based business is demanding enough without feeling like a part-time marketer on top of it all. That's why I'm passionate about helping you create ONE story that works harder than a dozen funnels. Want to know the most liberating part? When I crafted my signature story years ago, it became the foundation for EVERYTHING in my business. I haven't posted regularly on Instagram in over a year, yet my business continues to thrive! Rachel: \[00:00:00\] Hey guys, I'm so excited. I'm actually having Kris Jones back on the podcast. She had such a compelling episode before. We'll definitely put that in the show notes, but I wanted you to hear why story is so important to set yourself apart. And to really be able to have your ideal client view you as this unique personality showing up and stand out from the crowd. So Kris, can you tell everyone a little about you before we dive into this conversation? Yes.  Kris: Yes. I'd love to. Um, my name is Kris, as you know, and I am passionate about story. I work with tons of coaches and really help them. Understand on a deep level how powerful their work is. Um, you're great at what you do now, really the, the ticket to more clients is really communicating that in an authentic way, in a way that \[00:01:00\] feels really aligned with you and in a way that really, truly connects with your ideal clients and. Um, once you do that, um, I think a lot of, a lot of coaches understand the power of story, but it can be a bit mysterious. Like what is it? Do I have a story? Is that compelling? Um, how do I have  Rachel: a lot? And it's, I love that you just said that. I hear like, I don't have a story. And then you ask them like five high value questions and all of a sudden unfolds this like many stories. These migrants within a bigger story and I'm always saying to that coach, you have such a compelling story.  Kris: I have yet to meet anybody who doesn't. Everybody has a compelling story, period. Um, but the challenge is as coaches, we're just so close to our own business and we're, we're also so close to our own brilliance and our own genius that we can't really articulate it that well. We kind \[00:02:00\] of, the things that we think are. just normal or given really aren't. Um, and so often I liken this to being kind of trapped inside of a bottle, trying to read the label that you can only read from outside the bottle. Right. And as business owners. We're all there like it's true for everybody and a lot of the coaches that I work with think like, Oh, if I just work harder at this story or keep working on at it, I'll have a breakthrough and Yes, writing is a huge component of this, but it's, it's less of a writing problem and more of a perspective problem. What you need is somebody to come in and with perspective, look at the brilliance of your bottle label and read it for you and really read it for you. You have this awareness of how important the work you \[00:03:00\] do is. And the byproduct that my clients experience time and time and time again is really this deep knowing, um, internally on a cellular level, like, The power of the work that you do and what happens, what happens is more confidence. So you, you have your story, you have the right words, you know, the, you know, the story that's going to really resonate with your clients. And then you get to reuse that story in every area of your marketing. I'm. A big believer in let's do less, but more effective. Yeah. And I believe. All any business owner really needs is one really powerful story. And you can use that on your website. You can use it on your social media. You can use that same story. And I show my clients how to do \[00:04:00\] this. You use that same story on your sales calls. Every coach I work with dreads sales  Rachel: calls because Before we go on, I just want to piggyback to even some fundamental basics, because I feel like somebody saying they're like, I do have a story, but it's not getting them client. So how do you find what story is going to be appealing to your clients? How do you discover that within all the stories that you have?  Kris: Yes. Well, there's typically one core, what I call signature story that every coach needs. And that signature story is once you have it, you can tell it again and again and again, the fundamentals of every story ever, ever told, whether it's a movie. you went to watch over the weekend or a book you're reading always begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve and they're looking \[00:05:00\] for a guide. And so your story is less about like your background or how you got into this. business or your childhood. It's not about that. The story that I would encourage your listeners to tell is really a narrative that invites your potential clients into a story with you. A story where they are the hero and you play the guide. The guide is more of a secondary character in this. story, which is kind of a relief to most coaches, you're, you're not the central character in your story. Your clients are, you are the guide, which is the, like the Yoda or the Mr. Miyagi. You are actually the strongest character in the story. Right. Um, so you're, you're very, very important, but you're not the hero. And I think most coaches default to making themselves the hero of their own story. And this \[00:06:00\] is just, this is just like. It's so normal, right? And this is what most websites are doing out there. Most coaching websites, they're making themselves the hero of their own story. They're making their website all about them. And they're forgetting to really take the time to make their clients that central. character of the story, taking the time to really connect with them. Like just like if you'd meet somebody new for coffee, you would sit down and you'd really connect with them before you started coaching them or telling them about how you could solve their problem. You would connect first. And that is such an essential part of telling a story. Um, So you don't want to make yourself the hero of your own story, but the, the, the thing that happens a lot is a coach goes into business and they're like, okay, I need a website. I got to \[00:07:00\] crank this out. I got to get on Wix or Squarespace, and I'm going to follow the templates that they give me. Okay, they're In this section, they're telling me to talk, to introduce myself and talk about myself. And so you kind of follow the lead of the templates that are given to you. So it's nobody's fault. Um, but this is why it's so common. We're like, it's my website. I should talk about myself. And yes, you should talk about yourself, but there's a time and a place for it. We really want to. First, the priority is really, really to make our heroes, our clients, that central character. So just to kind of give people a quick overview of the fundamentals of every good, compelling story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. If they could solve their problem on their own. They would, you know, this is why you have a job because you know how to solve an \[00:08:00\] important problem that your hero can't solve all by themselves. They're out and about, they're asking their network, they're on the internet, they're looking for a guide who can help them solve this problem. But what happens so much is Um, they come to your website and they're like, huh, she seems wonderful, like a very lovely person, but I'm just not feeling connected or for whatever gut reason I have, this person doesn't feel quite like the right fit. And so they bounce to another website and they continue their search and they, they think it's because, you know, They just don't click with you for whatever reason they don't don't don't feel like you're the right one for them But the truth is you probably are the right one for them. They're just not You're not telling your story in a way that really builds the connect and builds  Rachel: nurturing and trust and then less trust factor  Kris: People want to work with people they feel connected to, they want to work with people that they trust, and so the fundamentals of story really prioritize that trust building and that connection and that resonance, and then you can step in as the guide, you can give them a very clear and simple plan, uh, the plan is an important part of the story because Um, nobody wants to jump off a cliff blindly. No one wants to click on your call to action if they don't know where it's gonna lead them. So we want to give them a plan and show them what's this going to look like. And also the plan is an important part of the story because it shows their brain like where the finish line is. They're like, okay, if I, if I go through this plan, the finish line is not far off.\[00:10:00\]  And then they have this internal. Um, which is I can do this. And when they have that internal thought, they're really inspired to click on that call to action. And everything that we do in your signature story is to really, it's really in service of them clicking on the call to action. That's how we know your website's working. That's how we know your social media is working. People are clicking on the call to action. And then we pull them through the story and keep them engaged through what I call stakes and stakes just mean success is to be had, but failure is also possible. And stakes are really the reason we go to a movie. We sit down and the movie turns on we don't look at our phone for 90 minutes We don't get up to go to the bathroom. We don't get up to get more popcorn Because we need to know what's gonna \[00:11:00\] happen. And so we use those same fundamentals of story in your website and in your marketing to keep people in It engaged in that level and honestly, nothing has the power to capture our attention the way that story does. And that's half the battle as a coach is just capturing people's attention, but also becoming memorable. Like, how are people gonna know you and what you do on such a clear and in such a clear and simple way that you're the one that comes. It's first to their mind when they have the problem that you solve. Rachel: Yeah. Tell me when you're creating the flow of a story. Let's just say for your about me page, because I think from about me page you can use it in so many other ways on social media. What is the flow of story? I mean there has to be something of course of your own journey, but to \[00:12:00\] what extent do you share that? Kris: Yeah. I mean your your website is definitely not your resume. Um, it is. It is really about the hero and I'm glad you brought this up because, um, I really believe the way that people are engaging with your website now are on your phone. Mostly they're typically on their phone. They come to your website and this motion, if, if you're listening or if you're, um, if you're on video, you can see me, but if you're listening, I'm holding my phone and I'm doing this scrolling motion. This is very intuitive. It's very easy to scroll through a page. And in a perfect world, they don't have to navigate to secondary pages. To gather the information they need in order to confidently take that next step with you, right? So number one, you're \[00:13:00\] about page. I integrate that into the home page Yeah, and so it's really it's really seamless to scroll through a maybe it might be a longer page but it's much more effortless to move through that page and Allow this story to unfold and Intentionally and sequentially as they move down the page. So your about me section, the way I do them anyway, there it's new, it's nuanced. It looks like an about you section, but it's really about you as it relates to your client. I saw as the guide. As the guide. Yeah, you step in as the guide and you remind them, like, what's possible. Number one, who do they want to be? Like, I know you want to be a, like, what, how would people want to, how would your clients want people to describe them as, like, \[00:14:00\] confident? a confident leader in your community or an incredible, incredibly, um, a parent that's like incredibly connected with their children. Um, so we want to begin your about section with really who they want to become. And then we move into, we really just move into the story flow. So your about section. in many ways, is like a mini story within a larger story. And you kind of repeat, you repeat the flow. Um, and so you start with their aspirational identity, and then you move into like, The problem is, you know, you can't do, you can't be that because of this problem, right? And then you move into what you believe. And this is what I call a philosophical statement. What you believe is just plain wrong or what you believe is true. I believe, \[00:15:00\] you know, you deserve a simple path to feeling your best. You deserve a, uh, the support that's needed in order to whatever it is, right? And then you move into, that's why I've made it my mission to solve this problem. And, and, and then you kind of, you can build some authority there, but it's, it's briefly, you don't need to like brag or boast or list all of your accomplishments. You just need to show that you solve this problem. That's, that's why I've, I've made it my mission to help. You know, clients like you solve this problem. I've done, you know, I've, that's why for the past 15 years, I've worked with 350 clients solving this particular problem. And then in the about section. Um, I always like to, to answer the question, how are you different from the rest? \[00:16:00\] And whether you know it or not, you are different from the rest. Again, I have yet to meet a coach that doesn't have their own unique imprint or their own unique kind of special sauce of how they solve this problem. Here's how I'm different from the rest. And then I do a few bullets of really what, what makes you unique. We call them to action. Um,  Rachel: yeah, I love that. And where on the homepage do you have that integrated like kind of flow of problems? And then you get to kind of high, this is, this is me, meet me or meet your coach.  Kris: Yeah. Yeah. So when, when somebody lands on your page, you have about five seconds to communicate what you do, how it's going to make their life better and what you want them to do next. So I call that the hero section. We're just identifying who that hero is and letting their brain know, like, Are they in the right \[00:17:00\] place or not? That's what they want to know. Am I in the right place or not? If they are, if that's resonating with them, they're going to engage in your stories. So you're going to start with the problem and the overarching problem that's going on for them. And then I like to follow that with a few bullets. Um, that get into the nuances of their struggle and this really helps them feel seen. They feel heard. They feel not alone in their struggle. And they feel like, Oh my gosh, she's in my head. And when you can really articulate their problem in their words, they automatically think you're the best one to solve it. So we want to, there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of layers that happen in that first problem section that are really, really essential to, to telling the story. And then the other thing that they're asking is, you \[00:18:00\] know, I, I kind of joke that when someone comes to your website, they've got three questions. What's in it for me? What's in it for me? What's in it for me? So after the problem section, they're nodding their head. Yep. This is, this is where I am. This is just the way it is. It's, you know, it's never going to change. And then I like to follow that section with just showing them what's possible. Sometimes our clients get so stuck in their problem. Um, they've forgotten what it's. They've forgotten what's possible for them. So it's your job as the guide to really remind them of what's possible. And the way a lot of coaches get this wrong is they get excited about what they do and how they solve their problem and they get right into features that features working with them rather than the end benefit of working with them. So a different way to frame this. section is to say what's their life going to look \[00:19:00\] like after they've worked with you. What's, what's possible for them. And at that point, they're resonating with us because we've articulated their problem. We've shown them very clearly. We've. Spoon fed them early. What's in it for them, right? Their brains fully engaged. And at that point in the story, they're like, okay, okay, this feels really good. Um, I'm engaged. Who's behind all this? And that's when we move into the guide section where you can step in as the guide guides. True guides don't need to brag or boast. You just need to show up with empathy. You have so much heart and so much empathy for your clients because you maybe have gone through a similar struggle. And so we want, really want to lead that guide section with just oodles of empathy and some \[00:20:00\] authority and, um, really helping them understand that you know how to solve this problem.  Rachel: And when you're extracting that main signature core story to your social media, how many stories would you say that you need to rotate? Kris: rotation story? No, I mean, I think everybody needs one story. When you've taken the time to do the heavy lifting of crafting your signature story, you anytime you need to write for social media, you go back to that story and you pick one thing in there. You might pick one problem. You might pick one part of the plan, but you've basically got content forever. I wrote my Signature story years ago, and anytime I need content, I just go back to my signature story, and I pick one thing, and I write about it. It really depends, too, on \[00:21:00\] how much you want to post, you know? I personally I don't want to spend my time posting on social media. So I have crafted like 15 very strategic posts. If you go to my Instagram, there are 15 posts. I've turned my Instagram grid into a really powerful sales page. So you can see on that page, every comp. component of story broken down into a different post, but when they all work together, it allows people to very quickly understand what I do, how I can help them, um, how my process works and what I want them to do next. So I have taken the entire year off of Instagram posting because I know it's set up to sell for me. That being said, I do do, I do post in reels. Um, periodically based on like if I have something that I \[00:22:00\] want to share, like a new podcast or something that's going on. So the idea in, in my perspective, the idea is really again, like how can you do less on how can you, um, not have to do the things that you constantly feel like you should be doing. And social media is a big one because. It's very time consuming. It's not always very effective, but yet as a coach, we really just want to be doing the work that we're on the planet to do. We don't want to be a part time marketer. We don't want to feel like this constant, um, homework is hanging over our head all the time that never ends. Rachel: Yeah, I love when you said earlier in this interview how you want to work smarter. It's like you want your website, you want your stories to really work for you. Would you say that, um, how vulnerable \[00:23:00\] do you need to be in a story? Mm.  Kris: I mean, I, I'm a big fan of vulnerability. Um,  Rachel: but the client identifies with you and really says this person's in my head. Kris: Yeah. Uh, I don't think that that requires a lot of vulnerability. What it requires is you really knowing the nuances of what your clients are struggling with.  Kris: Um, I mean you can, there's a time and a place to say, you know, listen, I. I, I struggled with this my, myself and I overcame it and here's how I did it and now I want to help you do the same thing. Rachel: This is my mission. Yeah. But you don't think in like the frame, that frame of the about me story, if you do the hard work, you hire somebody like yourself, you're really then getting long term. Marketing strategy forever more. Yeah,  Kris: \[00:24:00\] forever more in every area of your business on your social media. If you choose. If you want to do social media, networking events in person, if you're speaking on a podcast, um, you can, you, you just always go back to that story. It's the fundamental part of your business and it's the most compelling way to help people understand how wonderful you are and what you can do for them and how you're different from the rest. Um, so yeah, it's, it's really. The ticket to freedom, in my opinion.  Rachel: So if, if, what are the places that you build, uh, visibility since you didn't do social media? I know the social media works like a sales page, but what are you seeing that some ways to really show up in social media these days?  Kris: I mean, I, I set up my set my, um, Instagram as a sales \[00:25:00\] page, but I really think of your website as the center of your marketing universe. So it's like, it's like the sun and then there are planets that orbit around the sun and there are a million ways to get visibility. Um, and a lot of coaches feel like they need to be doing everything and be everywhere. My philosophy is. Pick two things that you really enjoy. Do you love do you want your own podcast or do you? Don't know if you don't have time for that. Do you enjoy podcast? Guesting that's a really great way to meet new people and point people back to your website Whatever you do It feels so much easier because you don't have to do this selling, you know your website site's going to do that for you. So it's just, you, you point everybody to the center of your marketing universe. So for, for my own business, I don't really want \[00:26:00\] to spend my time posting. So I did some, some deeper work, got my, got my Instagram dialed in. So I have a presence there, but where I really enjoy spending my time is having conversations with people. So my two, I say pick two planets. You do not have to pick more than two planets. My two planets are podcast guesting and email marketing. Yeah, those are the two. I pay attention to my list. I pay attention to my people. I'm in touch with them regularly on my email list. So that's my one planet. And then the podcast guesting is my other planet.  Rachel: I love that. What are you saying? Um, you know, I would love to talk about this cause I hear this all the time and I would love to hear your feedback, but a coach will say to me why I've been told I don't need a website. Yeah, especially in the beginning of being a coach. Now, for me, I feel like I've \[00:27:00\] never hired somebody without a website unless they were less, maybe they were a referral. And still, I like to see a website. A hundred percent.  Kris: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people are kind of, I don't know, taking that position. If you want to do a lot more work and you have endless amounts of free time and you like hustling. Um, then don't have a website and do all that, all that heavy lifting yourself.  Rachel: Fancy funnels. I mean, I think that's the thing when I hear somebody say, you don't need a website. I think you have to have very fancy funnels to be able to do all that communicating. Kris: Yeah. And even then, I think. If, if somebody is wanting or considering working with you, the first place they're going to go is your website. How many times have you been on Instagram and you're like, Oh, okay, I like what, what she's saying. I'm going to go check out her website. Yeah. If the \[00:28:00\] website falls flat or there is no website, you're in, you're in a mystery, right? Rachel: I saw a lot of coaches shift to stand store and I would say, please don't do that because I don't feel like it nurtures enough. You're just leading somebody to an e commerce product  Kris: completely. You're kind of going here, buy this. Before you've taken the time to really allow them to get to know you. I mean, the beauty of a website is they get to spend time with you. They get to be with you. And when you're not even there, right, the website is working 24 seven for you. It's the most powerful way to get clients. If it's working for you, I feel like a lot of coaches have websites. They come to me and they're like, it's just sitting there like a bump on a log. It's like, uh, it's an online brochure or business card, but it's not \[00:29:00\] a selling tool. It's not telling  Rachel: this profound story to get people in to say, I have to speak with this person.  Kris: Totally. And I think you hit the nail on the head. Like, you've really never hired somebody if they don't have a website, because it really tells you indirectly that they don't. care enough to make an investment in their own business and to, they don't care enough to craft a clear and compelling story. Um, so yeah, I, I think if you, if you want to thrive as a business, um, You have to have a website. If you want to have a fancy funnel, then add that to your website. You know, you can really promote your lead magnet on your website and capture those emails and market to those people. But it kind of, again, that website is the center of your marketing universe. And at this point in time, there is no shortcut or workaround. You just. \[00:30:00\] You need to get the website working for you if you want to grow your business.  Rachel: I love that. I love that you just said that. I was like, okay, do you think in this conversation that we've had today that we missed anything on storytelling? I know storytelling is such a vast, but really creating a story sets you apart.  Kris: I don't think so. I mean, I think we've covered some really core fundamentals about the importance of a website, the importance of positioning yourself as the guide and not the hero. If you just do that, your website's going to become much more effective and you're going to get to attract the right kinds of clients. I mean, the beauty of a, of a well told compelling story is that it attracts. Those right fit clients, but it repels the wrong fit one. So you, you don't have to be wasting your time on sales calls with people that aren't the right fit or people that don't have the budget or whatever it is. \[00:31:00\] Um, that, you know, it's about, again, it's the, it just always comes back to how can we be most efficient, efficient with your time? How can we create a, a Business that's profitable and enjoyable and how can you set yourself up with tools that will work for you so you don't have to be doing the heavy lifting all the time.  Rachel: I love that. Well, I just want to thank you for being here. Can you tell everyone where to find your Instagram, where to find you at your website? Kris: Of course. Yeah. The, my website is the center of my marketing universe, so you can go there and like, check it out. It's red door stories. com R E D D O O R. S T O R I E S dot com. Everything about me, the work I do, how I help my clients can be found on my website. If you want to check out my Instagram and check out how like I'm leveraging Instagram to tell my story without posting \[00:32:00\] all the time, you can find me on Instagram at at red door design with no S. Rachel: Awesome. Well, thank you for being here, God, make sure you follow this woman. She has a plethora of amazing information that I know will help. Kris and I were talking even before we were recording that so many coaches fall into the trap of needing, like thinking they need another qualification instead of really spending that time to work on your story and making that signature story profound. You guys know what your work is now. All right, guys, it was great to be with you. Thanks, Kris. Thank you. Bye, guys. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-much-does-a-storybrand-coach-really-cost-your-business ### Title: Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ### Page ID: 6959193 ### Content: # Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ## Check our other articles ## Understanding the StoryBrand Framework ### Key elements include: ## The Financial Investment in Becoming a Certified StoryBrand Guide ### 1\. Costs Involved ### 2\. What to Expect from the Certification Process ## ROI Expectations from Certification ### Quick Recoup Examples: ## Hiring a Certified StoryBrand Guide: What to Expect ### 1\. Services Offered ### 2\. Pricing ## Value Beyond Cost in Hiring a Certified StoryBrand Guide ### 1\. Clarity in Communication ### 2\. Improved Marketing Effectiveness ## Benefits of Working with a StoryBrand Coach Beyond Cost Considerations ## Free Bonuses and Additional Resources Included in Your Investment with a Certified StoryBrand Guide ## Conclusion: Is Investing in a Certified StoryBrand Coach Worth It? ## FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) ### What is the StoryBrand framework and how does it benefit businesses? ### What are the costs associated with becoming a certified StoryBrand guide? ### What kind of return on investment (ROI) can I expect from hiring a certified StoryBrand guide? ### What services do certified StoryBrand guides offer? ### Are there additional resources or bonuses included when hiring a certified StoryBrand guide? ### Is investing in a certified StoryBrand coach worth it? ## **Our other articles** ##### Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know ##### How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground ##### Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell ##### How to decide whether or not to redesign your logo ##### Why You Need a StoryBrand Website Makeover ##### StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers ##### How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website ##### Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask ##### 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business ##### The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration ##### The Art of StoryBranding: A Website That Will Explode Your Revenue! ##### What is a StoryBrand Script? Unlock the Secrets of Effective Messaging Hello, I’m Kris Jones a certified StoryBrand guide based in Portland, OR. Navigating the complexities of business can be overwhelming, but that's where the **StoryBrand framework** comes in. This powerful tool positions your customer as the hero of their own story while placing your brand as the trusted guide. Is a StoryBrand Coach Worth the Price? Here's What You Need to Know How to finally get your brand redesign project off the ground Is it time for a brand redesign? Here's how to tell StoryBrand for Financial Advisors: How to Attract and Engage Customers How StoryBrand Messaging Saves Copywriting Fees for Your Website Why You Need to Hire a StoryBrand Guide: 6 Questions to Ask 10 Best StoryBrand Website Examples to Inspire Your Small Business The Best StoryBrand Non Profit Websites with Examples for Inspiration Understanding the financial investment involved in hiring a **StoryBrand coach** is crucial. The costs can vary significantly, and knowing what to expect helps you make an informed decision. Here are key points to consider: Is the **StoryBrand Coach Cost** worth the investment? Let’s dive deeper into this transformative approach and uncover its potential for your business. For instance, [clear messaging](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-sells) is invaluable in engaging your audience effectively and skyrocketing your conversions. This forms a part of our discussions on the [Spiral Up Podcast](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/spiral-up-podcast), where we share transformative insights on business storytelling and brand messaging. Moreover, learning how to turn your story into sales using the [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/agents-of-change) can significantly increase your sales call closing rates. Additionally, unveiling the magic of website copy during our chat with Rachel Brooks can provide practical tips to elevate your brand story and transform your business narrative. The **StoryBrand concept** is all about using the power of storytelling. Instead of focusing on what makes your brand special, it encourages you to tell a story that connects with your audience. In this approach, the customer becomes the hero of their own story, while the brand plays the role of a helpful guide, offering support and solutions to help them succeed. As a **StoryBrand Certified Guide**, I help businesses articulate these narratives effectively. Transforming complex ideas into relatable stories encourages authentic connections and drives customer action. This often involves creating a [story-driven website](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/branded-2) that works around the clock to attract and convert clients, turning it into a 24/7 sales machine. Investing in your future as a **Certified StoryBrand Guide** comes with specific financial responsibilities. Understanding the **StoryBrand Certification Cost** is essential for anyone considering this path. The certification process is designed to equip you with the tools and support necessary to guide businesses effectively. Here’s what you can expect: This investment not only opens doors to new career possibilities but also positions you as a trusted expert in the narrative-driven marketing space. Embracing this journey means you are committing to mastering a compelling storytelling approach that resonates with clients. Each dollar spent is aimed at unlocking your potential to help countless businesses clarify their messaging and elevate their brand presence. This includes assisting [non-profit organizations](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/storybrand-non-profit-websites-with-examples) in applying the StoryBrand principles to their websites, thereby enhancing their online presence and effectiveness. Understanding the **Return on Investment** (ROI) from becoming a certified StoryBrand guide can be transformative for your business. Many certified guides have shared their success stories, illustrating how quickly they recoup their initial investment. Investing in a StoryBrand coach is not merely a cost; it’s a strategic move towards **business growth**. The value derived from clear messaging and effective storytelling can lead to increased income and steady client flow, making the investment undeniably worthwhile. For instance, utilizing [Red Door Designs' Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/), you can create a website that tells your story and attracts your ideal clients using the StoryBrand Strategy. This approach not only enhances your online presence but also serves as a powerful tool for business growth. Moreover, if you're struggling with crafting compelling website copy that resonates with your audience, [Renee Dalo's podcast episode](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/talk-with-renee-dalo) offers expert tips and strategies to transform your website copywriting. This valuable resource could significantly enhance your marketing skills, thereby accelerating your ROI from the certification. Additionally, gaining insights from [Kris Jones](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/she-built-it), CEO of Red Door Designs, on how storytelling can take your business to new heights could provide practical tips on creating engaging stories that hook your audience and boost sales. These resources collectively underscore the immense potential of leveraging the StoryBrand framework for substantial business growth. When you decide to work with a **Certified StoryBrand Guide**, you're opting for expertise that can significantly elevate your brand's narrative. Here’s what you can expect from these professionals: Pricing for these services can vary widely based on the complexity and depth of engagement: Investing in these services brings clarity to your marketing efforts. A well-crafted narrative transforms how you connect with clients and positions your business for growth. Investing in a certified StoryBrand guide extends far beyond the initial financial commitment. The focus shifts to **effective marketing strategy** and genuine business transformation. Here’s how hiring a guide can elevate your messaging: A guide helps you distill your message, ensuring that potential clients instantly grasp what you offer. This clarity can significantly enhance your brand's connection with its audience. With a well-crafted narrative, your marketing materials resonate more deeply. This leads to increased engagement and conversion rates. Personal experiences highlight the transformative impact of working with a StoryBrand guide: Clients often report that the investment pays off quickly. These testimonials illustrate that the value derived from hiring a certified guide can be profound, leading not only to improved messaging but also to tangible business growth and success. For instance, [Donald](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-donald), who utilized the StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System, experienced a significant turnaround in his business. Similarly, [Mark](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-mark) also saw his website transform into a 24/7 sales machine after implementing these strategies. Such transformations underscore the effectiveness of hiring a certified StoryBrand guide and leveraging their expertise for substantial business growth. Investing in a StoryBrand coach brings tangible benefits that extend beyond mere financial considerations. Here are key advantages: Consider the StoryBrand coach cost as an investment in strategies that yield significant returns, both financially and relationally. For instance, [compelling sales copy strategies](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/get-out-of-your-head) learned from experts can enhance your brand's storytelling to captivate and convert your ideal clients effectively. When you invest in a certified StoryBrand guide, you unlock a treasure trove of **free bonuses valued at $2,500**. This additional value enhances your experience and supports your journey toward effective storytelling. Here’s what you can expect: To further augment your resources, we also offer a range of [free resources](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/free-resources-copy) that align with the StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System. These resources aim to transform your website into a 24/7 sales machine, allowing you to focus on what truly matters while boosting profits. Ongoing support is crucial in making the most of these resources. Participating in group calls fosters community engagement and provides continued learning opportunities. This collaborative environment not only reinforces your understanding but also encourages growth through shared experiences and insights. Engaging with fellow entrepreneurs leads to valuable feedback and new perspectives, making your investment truly worthwhile. As a certified StoryBrand guide, I've seen firsthand how much of a difference this approach can make for my clients. With clear messaging and compelling stories, many of them have experienced: These successes show just how valuable it can be to invest in a [StoryBrand coach](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/hire-a-storybrand-guide). While the cost may seem high at first, it's important to think about the potential returns. Bringing on a [StoryBrand certified guide](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/work-with-me) can make your marketing efforts easier and lead to long-term success. If you're looking to use storytelling as a powerful tool for growth, this investment could be one of the best decisions you make for your business. For example, one of my clients, Shonda, saw amazing results after using the [StoryBrand Signature Story-Selling System](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/client-transformation-spotlight-shonda). Her confusing website was transformed into a 24/7 sales machine, allowing her to focus on what truly matters while boosting profits. This is just one case of how hiring a StoryBrand guide can clarify your message and connect you with your customers. If you're having trouble getting your brand's message across, it might be time to think about a [StoryBrand website makeover](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/why-you-need-a-storybrand-website-makeover). The StoryBrand framework focuses on narrative, positioning the customer as the hero and the brand as their guide. This approach helps businesses craft a Signature Story that clarifies their messaging, engages customers, and ultimately drives growth. The initial cost for StoryBrand certification is $10,000, with an annual renewal fee of $5,000. The certification process includes a four-day training and ongoing support to ensure guides are well-equipped to assist clients. Many certified StoryBrand guides report recouping their costs quickly through increased business growth. ROI can vary based on existing business models and marketing skills, but effective narrative strategies typically lead to higher income and client conversion. Certified StoryBrand guides provide various brand strategy services including Brandscript creation and One Liner development. Pricing for these services typically ranges from $1,500 for basic offerings to $15,000 for comprehensive packages. Yes, when you invest in a certified StoryBrand guide, you also receive free bonuses valued at $2,500. These include ongoing support through group calls and community engagement to foster continuous learning and business growth. Investing in a certified StoryBrand coach can lead to clearer messaging, improved marketing effectiveness, and ultimately greater business transformation. Reflecting on personal experiences shows significant positive impacts on clients' businesses, making this investment worthwhile for many. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - The value of clear messaging - The impact on lead conversion - Long-term benefits for business growth - **Customer Hero**: Your client is at the center of your messaging. This approach empowers customers to see themselves in your story, fostering a deeper emotional connection. - **The Guide**: Your brand serves as a trusted ally. By positioning yourself as knowledgeable and empathetic, you create loyalty and trust. - **Signature Story**: Crafting a Signature Story is vital for any business. This narrative not only clarifies your message but also establishes your unique identity in a crowded marketplace. A well-crafted Signature Story can simplify marketing efforts and enhance customer engagement. For instance, businesses that have successfully implemented this [StoryBrand framework](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/wantrepreneur) have seen significant growth in their revenue. - **Initial Certification Cost**: $10,000 - **Annual Renewal Fee**: $5,000 1. **Four-Day Training**: Intensive sessions that cover the core principles of the StoryBrand framework, including hands-on exercises and real-world applications. 2. **Ongoing Support**: As a certified guide, you will have access to continuous resources, community engagement, and mentorship opportunities to refine your skills and grow your business. - One guide reported landing just one client that covered their entire certification cost. - Another transformed their marketing approach, leading to a significant increase in client inquiries within weeks of implementing the StoryBrand framework. - **Existing Business Model**: If you already have a solid foundation, integrating the StoryBrand principles can amplify your results. Those with established networks often see faster returns. - **Marketing Skills**: Prior experience in marketing or sales can enhance the effectiveness of the StoryBrand strategies. Those who are comfortable promoting themselves tend to realize benefits sooner. - **Brandscript Creation**: This foundational tool outlines your brand’s messaging, positioning your customer as the hero and your brand as the guide. It clarifies your message and ensures consistency across all platforms. - **One Liner Development**: Crafting a succinct and compelling one-liner is essential for quick communication of your brand's essence. This helps in making instant connections with potential clients. - **Instagram Marketing Strategy**: Some guides may also offer specialized services like the [Freedom15](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/freedom15) system, which provides a strategic approach to turn Instagram into a selling machine while allowing you to take a year off from posting. - **Basic Services**: Typically start around $1,500. This might include initial consultations, Brandscript creation, and a one-liner. - **Comprehensive Packages**: Ranging from $5,000 to $15,000, these packages often include more extensive strategy sessions, website content development, and ongoing support. - **Increased Income**: A well-crafted narrative can transform your business, leading to higher conversion rates and increased sales. When your story resonates, clients feel compelled to engage. - **Effortless Lead Conversion**: With effective storytelling, attracting leads becomes seamless. Your message connects with potential clients, making it easier for them to choose you without pushy sales tactics. - **Engaging Conversations**: A compelling narrative fosters deeper connections. Clients are drawn into conversations that matter, enhancing trust and loyalty. - **Consistent Clients**: Clarity in messaging ensures that your ideal clients understand exactly what you offer. This alignment leads to repeat business and referrals. - **Instagram Break:** A story-driven social media strategy featuring 15 posts designed to engage your audience. - **Sales Call Formula:** A comprehensive approach that helps streamline your sales conversations. - **Testimonial Gold Template:** A powerful tool for crafting testimonials that resonate with potential clients. - Increased client engagement - Higher conversion rates - Streamlined marketing strategies - Do you struggle with conveying your brand’s message? - Are you ready to elevate your business through storytelling? - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/spiral-up-podcast-2 ### Title: Unlock Your Website's Potential: Turn Visitors Into Paying Clients, with Dr. LaChelle Wieme & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 6969649 ### Content: ## Unlock Your Website's Potential: Turn Visitors Into Paying Clients with Kris Jones ## The Spiral Up Podcast with Dr. LaChelle Wieme Unlock Your Website's Potential: Turn Visitors Into Paying Clients, with Dr. LaChelle Wieme & Kris Jones Ever felt completely stuck trying to explain what you do on your website? (Even as a professional, I've been there too!) ? I recently joined my friend Dr. LaChelle Wieme on the Spiral Up Podcast to share the fundamental shift that's helped hundreds of client-based businesses transform their confusing websites into powerful client-getting systems. The conversation was so good that LaChelle actually told her listeners, "You guys are in for a treat today!" And I think she's right - especially if you've been struggling to communicate your value clearly. ? Why being "stuck in a bottle trying to read the label" keeps most service providers from clearly communicating their value (and the simple shift that changes everything) ? How to position yourself as the guide in your client's story (not the hero!) so they feel deeply understood within seconds ✨ The counterintuitive approach to simplifying your marketing that actually brings in more clients (hint: it's not about doing more!) If you've been DIYing your website copy for too long with frustrating results, I promise this episode will give you clarity. After 23 years working with businesses (including my time at Nike), I've seen firsthand how transformative the right story can be. This conversation reveals exactly how my Signature Story-Selling System helps coaches, consultants and service providers stop hiding their brilliance and start attracting their ideal clients. Ready to turn your ineffective website into your most powerful sales tool? Welcome to the Spiral Up Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Lachelle Wieme, a peak performance coach and business strategist dedicated to helping you see what's possible within you, the blind spots that are holding you back, and the solutions to ensure success and fulfillment without the hustle. I use my secret sauce of metaphysics, brain science, and scripture to work with God to manifest your ideal life and business. If you're ready to create massive forward momentum in your business and bust through the blocks that drag you down, join me on the spiral up journey and create the clarity, confidence, and consistency to become the CEO that lives your life by design. It's time to create the sustainable impact, income, and time freedom you desire faster. Now is the time to spiral up. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Spiral Up Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Lachelle Levy. And boy, are you in for a treat today. You guys get a chance to talk to one of my colleagues, one of my friends, one of my spiral up experts. Founder of the amazing company Red Door Designs, Kris Jones. You guys, she is a powerhouse when it comes to really getting down our messaging and making sure that the world understands what it is that we do and how we do it in a succinct, direct way. Because I don't know about you guys as you're listening to this, but how many of you have like, when somebody asks you what you do, it's either like this corny elevator speech that feels really stuffy, Or it's like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're word vomiting all over them. And they're like, I don't really understand still, right? And so when I met Kris, gosh, it's been a couple years now, I believe. You and I totally hit it off. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I need you in my life. And I invited Kris to be a part of my Signature Spiralette program so that my clients get a chance to meet with Kris and they get a chance to learn from her inside of our back office and all the things because what she does, you guys, is so amazing. flipping powerful. And for her to get inside my head and be like, this is exactly what you do. I'm like, yes, yes, this is what I do has been such a gift. And I'm so grateful that, that you've been, you know, part of my tribe for a while now. And if you guys want to see an example of Kris's work, head on over to I am life by design.com. Um, you can see my, my homepage was beautifully orchestrated by this brilliant woman and Kris, I'm so glad you're here. Oh my gosh, Lachelle, I am beyond delighted to be here today. So I know I kind of gave them a little snapshot of what you do, but what I miss, like, give me some, some, you know, passion and some inside, you know, scoop into, to what it is that you do for people. Yeah, well, you hit the nail on the head. A lot of entrepreneurs are so close to their own business that they really struggle to write about what they do or find the words to communicate what they do. And this is a lot like... being stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label of that bottle that can only be read from outside and so as entrepreneurs we get stuck in that bottle and we think if we work harder if we try harder if we spend more time on it we're going to have some kind of a breakthrough but ultimately what what we really need is someone to look at our bottle read the label for us and give us the clarity and actually be able to identify What makes you unique? What's your special sauce? How are you different from everybody else out there? And then put that into words. And so when I put that into words for my clients, what I'm really doing is crafting their signature story. And the beautiful thing is when you have a signature story for your business, You can use it on your website. You can use it, a shorter version of that story to answer that question, what do you do, in a compelling way that invites engaging conversation. And you can repurpose the story literally in every area of your business. So the goal is really to use the story to become more memorable, to help you reach more people with less And that is what I'm passionate about. And I love being that perspective and that perspective person and the storyteller that can really pull out the golden thread that is you and your genius and put it all into a narrative story. one hundred percent I mean what you know what I do is you know because you help me coordinate all of this stuff but I help people manifest sustainable five-figure months without overwhelm without overthinking and and that has to include a strategy that allows us to work smarter not harder when we can be super effective in what we're doing then the dominoes are able to fall a lot faster. Right. And so oftentimes we will, we'll try something out. We'll throw spaghetti against the wall. We'll see what sticks. And it's really just that DIY unit. And that, that trial and error that is sometimes necessary. Let's just be real. Like sometimes we have to acknowledge trial and error, even when I'm with you, like, let's tweak this a little bit, like, but, but there's so much power you guys. And just like, having somebody help you move that needle and to be more efficient so that you can see the results faster so that you can see the sustainable change faster, that you're not constantly running in place, trying to figure out what's working when it really just took one person's outside perspective to start putting a piece of the puzzle together and help you get more traction faster. Right. Yeah, I don't think there's any shortcut through that first year or two of being self-employed. You have to do that. You have to kind of DIY stuff and figure it out to kind of understand what you're good at, what you're drawn to, what you like doing, what you don't like doing, right? You can't really... jump over that part of business ownership. But the beautiful thing is once you've gone through that, you really realize, okay, these are the things, these are the high-level activities that I want to engage in. And maybe writing isn't one of them, or maybe you're tired of wasting your time doing that. And You know, I think a lot of people early on in business have a DIY mindset and there's nothing wrong with that. But the question I like to ask is, okay, you're saving maybe a couple hundred dollars DIYing it. But how much are you really losing? Really, when people come to your website, and they're not, they're not clicking with you, they're not resonating with you, they're not excited to work with you, when you've got tools out there, and your online presence isn't accurately communicating your brilliance, like you lose, you have one person come to your website and leave, and you've just that's a lot of money, right? So it's a mindset. It's a mindset. And yeah, you know that more than anything. Yeah. Yeah. And what, you know, you specifically did for me, it just helped me to own like what I had already knew, but you articulated it in a way that now I felt even more confident to use these same principles, the same language, the same, you know, core message and in all of the things that I'm doing so that my emails are going out and they have the same feeling, the same message. My social media is doing the same and all of the things that I'm doing are aligning. And there again, when we want to be efficient, we want to have a sustainable business. You have to be able to put the things that are coming together in this beautiful flow. And so when you can start to have the singularity in your messaging, it's going to target those people so much faster. And gosh, we could go on and on about this, but I really want to shift here. And I want to talk about what I've asked you to be on the show for today is your book, because I think that's going to unlock this beautiful conversation. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you're up to these days? So I just finished my first book. It's called From Click to Client, How to Easily Create a Story-Driven Website that Turns Visitors into Clients. And inside the book, I walk you through my exact process, how to attract your ideal clients, how to simplify your marketing, how to command premium rates, how to really tell your story. I don't keep anything back. I have a very... streamlined, effective, efficient process that I use with my one on one clients. And to work with me is right around the fifty five hundred dollar range. But for people who aren't ready to make that kind of investment in their business, the book is the next best thing. It's like I am holding your hand through through the process and I walk you through exactly how to do it for yourself. So, Kris, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you see are the common barriers that people have? Because, I mean, you guys know, right, like part of the spiral up journey is to recognize what your butts are. What are the roadblocks? What's the what's the barrier? What's the resistance to flow that it's going to get you to where you want to go? And I'm just curious, like, what are the biggest butts that you're seeing out there when it comes to messaging? Well, I I like big butts, but so. I mean, meaning like the biggest barriers keeping somebody from doing this kind of work? Yeah, from their messaging. Yeah. What problem are you solving in your book? I think that there are, there are people that don't recognize the power that a website should and should have. You know, sometimes people like newer into business, they're pouring all their energy into social media. But when people find you on social media, not that that can't be an effective way to grow your business, but when they find out about you, they're going to go check out your website. And if you don't have a website or you just slapped it together without any real intention, then that doesn't make the impression that you really want to make. Really understanding that your website should be your most powerful marketing tool and it should really do the job of your top salesperson. It should really take a lot of hours and time and energy off your plate. The other thing that it does is it really allows your sales calls or your discovery calls to be much shorter because people get on those calls. They're already informed. They're already excited. to work with you. And so that can feel like a relief, like you're not having to sell anymore. You're just getting on the phone, guiding them through the hero's journey of your story. And when I talk about story, I'm not talking about like, your background story or like the founder's story. I'm talking about crafting a narrative that invites your potential clients into a story with you, a story where you play the guide, you play the Yoda and your client's play the Luke Skywalker. They're the hero. And so everything we do is really, from a messaging standpoint, very much about your clients and it helps them feel seen, feel heard, resonate with you. And most importantly, it really builds connection and trust. And The beautiful thing is that people don't want to work with the best person. They don't want to work with the best. They want to work with the person they feel the most connected to. And story is the most powerful way to cultivate that connection. Yes, that is so beautiful. And I love your story brand philosophy that you have used as the cornerstone foundation of what it is that you do. Why don't you describe a little bit more about what that is? So there's a book called Building a Story Brand. If you're an entrepreneur, you've probably heard of it. If you haven't heard of it or read it yet, I would highly recommend you do. It's an incredibly powerful book about the power. It's a powerful book about the power of story. So any story you've ever read, every movie you've ever been to, any story anyone's ever shared with you verbally always follows the same formula. If it's compelling, it follows the same formula. So this has been since the beginning of time gathering around the fireside. It always follows a certain flow and it begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. And they are out and about trying to find a guide. A guide enters into the story about a third of the way through. The guide is you as the business owner. You're there to help the hero overcome their problem. And the way you do that is you give them a very clear and simple three-step plan. The plan is, when you watch movies, you're gonna notice this moving forward, but the plan is really the thing that allows the hero to go, Okay, I know what to do next. I can do this. Like I know what it's going to take to get to my happy end results. So we give them a clear and simple plan. And the plan is the thing that they, once they hear it, they have this internal thought of, I can do this. And then they are called to action. When it comes to your website, that call to action is the button. What's the big button that you want them to do next? In a movie, it's different. It calls them to action to run to the airport and go, you know, grab the girl before she gets on the plane or whatever. But it calls them to action. And then the way we stay engaged. So the reason we go to a movie and we sit down and we don't get up for ninety minutes, we don't even look at our phone for ninety minutes. It's because there are stakes in every story. The hero can succeed. But the hero could potentially fail too. And we cannot stop watching the movie until we know which of those things is going to happen. I mean, it always ends in success, typically. But even though the formula is tried and true, our brains can't help but engage. And so it makes perfect sense to use this type of a framework. A lot of it is psychology. And we use... the framework of story to captivate people's attention and create, create that connection and to really allow them to envision themselves overcoming this hurdle and really getting to know us and trusting us as the perfect guide to help them get to where they want to go. Yes. A hundred percent. It's come down to like, you know, does this person understand what I need? Does it work? And will it work for me? Right. And do they know what I want? Can they get me to where I want to be? Exactly. And so it's just like you acknowledging that I get you and this can work for you. Let me show you how to do that. And I love how you do that very well is to make that person the subject of the story. Because oftentimes I think that we default to, hi, I'm Lachelle and I do this and blah, blah, blah. And it's not about me. It's about them. Right. Right. Right. Understanding them, but it's about them. Right. And yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's such a good point. I really liken your website, for example. That's one place that your story will live. I liken it to like a first five minute coffee date or even a fifteen minute coffee date. But they're not there very long. They sit down. And if you were to imagine going to meet a new friend for coffee, you wouldn't sit down with them and go, this is what I do and this is how I can solve your problem. And these are the features and benefits. And here are all the modules. You wouldn't sit down and say that. You would say, hey, hi, I'm Kris. What's going on for you right now? What are you struggling with? What are you hoping to achieve? What do you want more than anything? And that's the way we connect with humans. So it really, it shouldn't be any different than that on our websites. We want to take the time, make them the central focus of our attention by talking about their struggles, understanding the nuances of success, difficulties that they're having, helping them feel seen and heard, helping them feel not alone in their struggle, and then reminding them of what's possible if they are to solve this problem. What's their life going to look like after working with you? And I think the most common mistake I see out there is really coaches are And I understand, I so understand why this happens, but coaches like throwing up a website and, you know, you pick a beautiful template in Wix or Squarespace or wherever you decide, nothing wrong with any of the builders. In fact, I love cloud-based builders. But you pick a template and those companies are in the business of brochure websites. And so they give you these little areas to input your information. And it's like, hi, I'm Lachelle. And I was I grew up here and I, you know. This and that about you. And it's so, of course, this happens because all the templates kind of guide you to do that. But there's a big difference between a brochure website, which kind of just it's, you know, you have a website, but the website isn't doing anything for you. It's kind of sitting there like a bump on a log. And when you look back on the last year, you're like, you know what? Not any of my clients have actually found me through my website. What the heck is going on? versus an effective website so when you really are intentional about your website and you bring strategy to it and storytelling to it it becomes a really powerful sales tool for you and that's really what I love to do for my clients Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that so much. So what would you say, Kris, would be, you know, kind of one of the first steps that somebody could, you know, be like, okay, yeah, I could do this. Like this, this seems doable and it seems doable for me. So what would you say is some of the first steps you would have somebody consider? Well, I do have a freebie that would be really relevant for this. Like the number one thing is to change the lens at which you look at your business. So just stop looking at it through your own perspective and start looking at it through your client's perspective and really making them the central focus of your communications. I have a freebie. It's on my website. It's called how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. It's a five minute video and it's a worksheet that's going to help you. And I'm going to hold your hand every step of the way. Then help get all that stuff in your head out onto paper. And then I'm going to show you how to organize it into three buckets and then combine the best items into a story. It'll be the shortest story you've ever written. but it's the most fundamental work that we can do for our business. So I would say that's the first thing is really to begin to look at yourself as the guide and not the hero of your own story. And then to go grab that freebie in five minutes, that's gonna really help kind of break it down for you how to make that shift. And do the people that are going to benefit the most by your book, by your services, are these people already very clear on who their avatar is? Or is that something that you want to spend a moment just acknowledging in this moment? Because if you don't know who you're talking to, Right. Right. Yeah. Well, and that is the beauty of having that couple of years of entrepreneurship under your belt. You get to work with a bunch of types of different people. You really realize these people aren't. the ones that they dragged me down or they drain my energy. And this other group of people, they're fun to work with. They appreciate me. They're eager to pay what I'm charging. So that kind of clarity is really important. One of the questions that I get almost from every client and every client thinks that they're the only ones that have ever asked me this. Which is they're like, I do this thing. This is my expertise. But I kind of deliver it in two different ways. Like I'm working with someone who's – she's like a financial coach. And she does do bookkeeping for business owners, but she's also an outsourced CFO for – for personal people that just have like a lot going on in their life. And so she had this question, like, how am I going to tell one story that's going to totally resonate with both of these types of people? Because they, they're different, you know, so do we need two stories or can we, and I always say the same thing, which is, it's you, you are the golden thread and I know how to pull out the golden thread. There's overlap. There's a Venn diagram around the people that you work with. And so we, we, we weave that thread throughout your whole story. And there are a bunch of different ways to just make sure we're speaking to both people and really connecting with them. But I like to do it on one page because as a business owner, I, you just want to have one address that you can send everybody to and just know that's where it just go there and you can self-identify, you know, if you're the right fit or not, just makes our lives so much easier. Absolutely. I mean, that was one of the things that I did, you know, this last year, you've been a part of my, my journey of getting all of my systems and my processes really streamlined so that I can focus on the traveling that that's coming up. And, and that was one of the things is that I really realized that I do have one avatar that but she might need more or less support or her her budget might be a little bit you know She can afford it. She's willing to just like make the sacrifices or, you know, she's got to get her feet wet first. And so creating essentially a product suite that meets them at their journey. But it's really one person that I'm speaking to. And I think that that's really freeing because I think a lot of times we overcomplicate, at least my clients and myself, probably why I attract them, because it's easy to overcomplicate things. We want to make it perfect. We want to get it right. And, and therefore we, we take the easy out of it. And so one of the things that felt very freeing is to just have this very simple story that I simply just get a chance to find the person and just maybe where they're at on their journey and how much it around that. That's so beautiful. Yeah. I think you, you nailed it with, you know, having a suite of offerings so people can decide at what level they want to engage, but you know, that you're welcoming people in depending on what they want to need. The other thing that comes up a lot with my clients is they'll say, okay, well I, I work with women. Um, I work primarily with women, but I do have like for every hundred women that I work with, there are like two or three men that want to work with me and I do work with them. So I don't want to leave those people out. And so what happens is I just remind people we need to. Really strike a chord, really connect with the eighty percent of the people that are coming to you. The other twenty percent, the riffraff or whatever, that's not a derogatory term. It's just like those other people are going to come to you anyway, no matter what. And so let's focus on the eighty percent. that you really want to, if you mostly work with women, we are talking to women. Yeah. And it's, and then you can decide if somebody comes to you outside of that definition, you could just say, oh yeah, I'm going to make an exception or yes, I work with men too, but I just, it's not as calm, not as often. So yeah. Well, connect with your messaging. And I find that a lot when I'm working with clients as well, Kris, that they're free to niche down. And when we speak to everyone, we speak to no one, right? And so that's why you're so good at what you do. And so they're afraid to niche down. And I love telling the story. So I'm just going to share the story because you might be kind of tickled by this too. So my very first coach that I ever hired was somebody that had this weekend intensive. So it was like a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And in my opinion at the time, like, three thousand dollars is a lot of money to spend on somebody, right? And the thing that was so interesting about this particular coach was that she very specifically marketed to brand new coaches that were African-American women. Okay. So if you guys are watching me on video right now or have seen any of my pictures, I am not African-American. And I was just like, okay, I love your messaging so much. It was like speaking to me. And so I reached out to her. I'm like, Lachelle, you know, I'm not really necessarily in your target audience, but you know, would, would we, her name was Lachelle, by the way, that's how we met together. So, so I was like, Hey, Lachelle, like, I love your name, but yeah. You know, I don't fall into like who you're specifically marketing to, but I really love your message. You know, would, would we, you know, be able to work together? And, and she's like, absolutely, you know? And so I think that it's like even more of just a power of her messaging and what she was doing was speaking to me. And so the right people, you guys are going to find you regardless if it's a man or a woman, black or white, you know, whatever, like if the messaging is so point on, you're not going to have to worry about missing out on people. You can very confidently niche down to speak so directly to the person that they're like, how the heck did you get in my head? Like, how do you know this? Like, how do you know me so well? And that's how you know that you did it well. And then it takes very little. Like, I'm like, I already knew that I was going to work with her even before we get on the sales call. Right. you can let your messaging sell for you so that you don't have to worry about having to convince anybody of anything. They're basically saying, can I still work with you? And that's how you're doing really well. Yes. I love that story. I love it. And how was the weekend for you? Is it really wonderful? Yeah, of course. She made me exactly where I needed to be. And And I think that, you know, it's, it's so cool. Like how the right people are going to be sent to you exactly when you need them. And I'm very open and aligned with like, when you are solution oriented and you're open to the solution, the universe will send you the solution, but you have to be willing to, you have to be willing to receive it. Right. And so you showed up when I needed you and I've been able to share your beautiful work with several of my clients. And so it's so fun. Oh my God. Okay. So I want to know, like, you know, as we, as we kind of like starting to wrap up the conversation, I want to know what else you want your, your person who's listening. Cause they know they're like raising their hand right now. Like, oh my gosh, she's totally speaking the language. Like, yes, I don't know how the heck to say what I'm doing. And I do feel like I'm fluttering and, and I do want to have my website sell for me and all the things like how, how, Do you want to wrap up this conversation and how do you want to speak to that person? Like, what do they need to know? Oh, I mean, I have a lot to say. I think that the first thing I would say is get support. You know, if you're struggling with your messaging, get support because it's so important. important. And it does so much of the heavy lifting for you. And just like you resonated with the other Lachelle's message, right? You, you, you resonated with the words so much that you had to reach out with her, even though it was clear, you are not like her ideal client. And, you know, it's on a lesser scale. When you go to Amazon and you buy something, you look at the picture of it, but you don't buy it based on the picture. You look at the reviews and the words that people have shared about it. And that's when you hit that buy button. And so I your words really matter if you want to get off the hamster wheel that I think you touched on this earlier lachelle which is just like it's human nature to make things more complicated than they need to be and as an entrepreneur we're often doing a lot of this stuff in a silo we don't have a team of people we don't have people we can bounce things off of and that can accelerate the complicated. All the stuff I like and like all the ideas and all the stuff we have in our head as entrepreneurs, like it's a lot like a typical American garage. You walk outside. There's piles of boxes. The cars are actually parked in the driveway because there's so much stuff in the garage and it's really hard to identify what's the treasure in this garage and what's the trash. What's the clutter. Where's the, I can't tell. They all, they're all boxes. They're overflowing. They're tipping over. And when you get the support that you need, you get to very clearly identify the treasure, the golden thread that is within you and you can clear away all the clutter. And I think of, of story, a compelling story is really, you can look at it like a filtration device. It filters out all the noise and it keeps one beautiful, clear and simple narrative that truly connects. So I think that, um, my passion is really like helping alleviate the struggle of trying to do it all alone. And also let people know that like, you don't have to be everywhere doing everything. When I think about your website, as I think of your website as the center of your marketing universe, everything that you do in life and in marketing or any activity, Point people back to the website. If you're on a podcast, point people back to the website. If you're at a networking event, point people to the website. And it can just... alleviate so much of the selling, the directing, the figuring out where to send people. A lot of people that I work with are like, oh, I just send people to my LinkedIn because I'm ashamed of my website. And that is common. I mean, that is common. People, entrepreneurs pretending their website doesn't exist because it's so disconnected from who they truly are and what they're all about that it just doesn't It doesn't resonate with them and they're ashamed of it. And so one of the big things that I like to teach my clients is pick one or two things that you genuinely enjoy, like podcast guesting, or do you really love making YouTube videos, or do you really love email marketing? Just pick one or two. you don't have to do if social media isn't your thing you do not have to be on social media period you don't and do podcast guesting instead of social media I personally don't love being on social media like I have nothing against it I enjoy like scrolling instagram but I don't want to spend my time creating posts for instagram so i One of my things I chose is podcast guesting, which is why I'm here right now. It's fun, effortless. It doesn't feel like the constant homework that's hanging over my shoulder that I that I never done with. And so, you know, I would just say, like, don't adopt marketing ideas just because that's what everybody else is doing. Right. That's how we get into overwhelm and, and burnout and, you know, shooting ourselves and how we get into this place of, of suboptimal, productivity because we're doing too many things instead of doing anything really, really well. And there's something that you said that I want to make sure that we touch on briefly because I think it's important. So you mentioned that our website is kind of like the central home, the hub of somebody's business, which I totally agree. Right. And you also gave this beautiful analogy of, you know, clean out the garage and, you know, what's the garbage and what's not. And I think that one of the things that I have been guilty of in the past before we worked together is because my website was my home base. Right. And it collected all of the things that I have going on. It's really easy for me to just have this overwhelming space for people to come instead of being very clear in one call to action. one place that we're asking them to go. And I just wanted to hear what your perspective is on that, because I think that's a really, um, unique lens that a lot of people are possibly missing. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I've never done speed dating before, but, um, I know it's the thing and I think it'd be kind of fun, but, um, Like I really think of your website as like a first five minute coffee date. It is really not the place to overwhelm people with information. And I know like no one's intention is to overwhelm that person with information, but they're like, I had this idea or I should add this to my website. I'm going to add this. And then a year goes by and it's kind of all a collection of, it's almost like a collage of like ideas and little phrases and, And I think ultimately. What it does is it just allows it forces people to spend more time on the website to figure out what's the essence of what you do. And when people have to burn brain calories to figure out what it is that you do, their brains will literally shut off. Our brains are constantly trying to conserve calories. So if you have a collage of ideas and information and phrases and pictures and gifts and stuff like that, It's fun to create that stuff. I mean, I am, you, I think you and I both share this love of just design and beautiful graphics. And I remember you telling me one time, my happy place was in Canva on a weekend, creating like visuals. I had the whole house to myself. That's what I would be on. Yeah. I totally hear you on that. I love visual storytelling too. It's super powerful. But your website is not your resume. It is not a hub for all your ideas and information. If you want to do that, create a hidden page on your website and just have that be your brain dump of ideas. But don't make it public facing. Like, again, it really does come down to it's helpful to think about story as that filtration device. It's filtering out the noise and keeping one clear, cohesive, beautiful narrative. Yeah. I love that so much. And I'm just going to say that like, I'm sure people are just dying. Like, how do I get access to you? So you guys are going to have all of the ways that you can get her book in the show notes, as well as how to connect with her, follow her, check out her website, all the things inside the show notes. So I'm just going to say that. And I'm just going to give you a little bit of this truth of the hug nudge, okay? Because I think that a lot of our buts are that I will deal with my websites when I get all of these other projects done. I'll add it to the list. I'll add it to the garbage pile of things that I will do in order to become a better business owner. And that was, you know, total guilty on that side myself. And one of the things that I appreciated about you specifically, Kris, is that you basically took the hard work out of it. You had me do a worksheet and then you essentially created the copy of my website for me in a matter of, I don't even know, it was very short period of time, like very short turnaround. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like that was not as hard as I thought it was going to be. And so I could check that off my list. And so if you guys are at that point where you're like, okay, yep, I got a big butter on that. I know that it's just going to be something that I'm going to add to my list and then should on myself. Um, that would be a nudge to possibly reach out to Kris and see, you know, what that could look like for you. If you're not there yet, if you're still in the space where you are, you know, starting your business, you're in that, that exploration, exploration stage, um, you know, the book is going to be such an amazing, amazing way for you to get the help that you need now with where you are. And I'm just going to say like one of the last people that I've hired, I read her book and I'm like, this woman's speaking to me. And so who knows, you might find yourself in the space where you're like, well, I guess I'm making this a priority before I thought I would. So it's been, it's been really fun to see kind of where the journey is and, and when you're ready for a solution, a solution will appear. And, um, in the quantum space, be thankful for the solution already. And I believe very much so, Kris, that our conversation is going to be a blessing for somebody who's listening to this, whether it be a little tweak here or there to make things more effective and efficient, or like, oh my gosh, where have you been in my life? And so I'm just so glad that I got to spend some time with my friend and that people got a chance to know you. And you guys got to see the caliber of people that we have inside of The Spiral Up. and the experts that I bring in to not only work with clients, but to teach clients. And I mean, these are people I handpick. And Kris, you are the cream of the crop sister. So I'm so glad. Oh, thank you. Such an honor to be in your close network. I can't even tell you, you are such a bright star and every time I'm around you, I feel more and more energized. And that is in and of itself, just a wonderful quality. So thank you. Thank you. You guys, I hope that you got as much out of this as I did. Make sure that you leave a review. We love to listen to things that you say on stories and social media. We love to read your reviews. We love to just find out how we impacted you. So please reach out. And I know you'll get an email. If you're on my email list, you'll get an email with the link to this episode. So reply back to that. Let me know how this resonated with you. And I'm so glad you're here. And I will see you all next time. Bye, everybody. so much for listening if you enjoyed this episode be sure to subscribe and leave a review each honest review helps me spiral up so that I can serve you even better whether you're feeling a lack of impact income or time freedom or perhaps you're just ready for massive momentum in your business let's chat apply for a breakthrough call so that you can gain clarity identify what's holding you back and make a plan to spiral up head on over to im-lifebydesign.com backslash breakthrough or access the link in the show notes. For immediate support, log into our community, The Better Club. We focus on inspiration, tactical guidance, and support. This is a community that wants to be better, do better, and have better in life and in business, and we're going to help you do the same. Let's spiral up, friends. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/from-click-to-client-podcast ### Title: From Click to Client Podcast ### Page ID: 7000892 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/transform-your-sales-approach-why-conversation-beats-convincing-every-time ### Title: Transform Your Sales Approach: Why Conversation Beats Convincing Every Time ### Page ID: 7000928 ### Content: ## The Mindset Shift That Changes Everything ## Why "Slow It Down" Actually Speeds Up Sales ## The Power of the "Consequences of No" ## Self-Leadership: The Foundation of Sales Success ## From Reluctance to Results ## Ready to Transform Your Sales Conversations? Transform Your Sales Approach: Why Conversation Beats Convincing Every Time Have you ever felt that knot in your stomach before a sales call? That feeling of "I don't want to be pushy" mixed with "but I really need this client"? You're not alone. In fact, that discomfort might be the very thing holding your business back. In my recent conversation with [sales expert Nicole Cramer](http://thenicolecramer.com) on the [From Click to Client Podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/from-click-to-client-attract-dream-clients-with-a/id1787187223), she shared a perspective that could transform how you approach selling forever: **"Sales is just the byproduct of the conversations and the relationship that lead up to that."** Nicole's journey from high school math teacher to becoming the [#1 salesperson in her company](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/from-click-to-client-attract-dream-clients-with-a/id1787187223) offers valuable lessons for anyone who wants to grow their business without feeling sleazy about their sales process. When Nicole transitioned from education to sales, she quickly discovered that traditional selling tactics felt uncomfortable and inauthentic. In a moment of brilliance during her very first sales interview, she made a connection that would shape her entire approach: **"I've been selling math to high school teenagers for 15 years and nobody wanted to buy that."** This simple insight revealed the true nature of effective selling. It's not about convincing someone to buy something they don't want—it's about helping them navigate a decision that will get them to where they want to be. **"We're not selling somebody something,"** Nicole explains. **"We're helping them step into the belief that what they want is possible and helping them get there."** One of the most counterintuitive yet powerful strategies Nicole shared is the importance of slowing down the sales process. She calls it the **"don't try to get married on the first date"** approach. Too many business owners enter sales conversations with one goal: close the deal now. This creates pressure that prospects can feel immediately, triggering their defenses and hesitation. Nicole recommends creating [meaningful intermediate steps](https://reddoordesigns.com)—like a 90-minute intensive before a six-month program—that allow both parties to experience working together before making a bigger commitment. **"Trust isn't built overnight,"** she reminds us. **"When we slow it down, we don't come across as salesy. We come across as curious, as caring about the other person, and as somebody they can trust."** Perhaps the most transformative insight from our conversation was Nicole's approach to helping prospects see the value of making a decision: **"Let's destroy the option of no before we try to start moving somebody into something that may very well just look aspirational to them."** Before highlighting all the benefits of your solution, Nicole suggests helping prospects clearly understand why staying where they are isn't working. When people recognize the consequences of not making a change, they become motivated to take action. This isn't about fear tactics—it's about compassionately helping someone see their current reality clearly so they can make an informed decision about moving forward. Underlying all of Nicole's strategies is a profound understanding of what she calls "self-leadership": **"If we are not showing up as our fullest, highest, best expression of ourselves, how could we possibly lead someone else to that?"** Sales success begins with how you take care of yourself—physically, mentally, and emotionally. When you show up confident and centered, prospects see a better version of themselves reflected in you. **"People see a better version of themselves in us,"** Nicole explains. **"They want to buy a better version of themselves, and I don't care what you sell... they see you as being the vessel or the guide in helping them get there."** The impact of Nicole's approach speaks for itself. She shared the story of a recent client who had experienced six months of minimal sales. After four weeks of implementing these principles, this client [signed over six figures](https://www.reddoordesigns.com/see-my-work) in contracts in a single week. What made the difference? According to Nicole, it started with the client's decision to invest in herself: **"When we make investments in ourselves, we value ourselves at a higher level. The belief that you have to have in yourself to make a decision like that should not go unmentioned."** If you're tired of feeling uncomfortable about selling and ready to embrace a more authentic approach, start by focusing on [meaningful conversations](https://reddoordesigns.com) rather than transactions. Remember that you're not "taking people's money"—you're creating an energetic exchange of value. You're helping guide prospects to decisions that will genuinely improve their lives. As Nicole puts it: [**"If we really care about helping people, selling really is serving."**](https://reddoordesigns.com) Are you ready to serve at a higher level by transforming your sales conversations? The results—both in your business growth and your personal fulfillment—might surprise you. Stop missing sales with mediocre copy. I'll share my formula for success so you'll get the right words to help you earn more with less effort—in just 5 minutes. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-to-replace-all-your-marketing-with-one-story-with-uriah-guilford-and-kris-jones ### Title: How to Replace ALL Your Marketing with One Story, with Uriah Guilford & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 7001647 ### Content: ## How to Replace ALL Your Marketing with One Story ft. Kris Jones ## The Productive Therapist Podcast with Uriah Guilford How to Replace ALL Your Marketing with One Story, with Uriah Guilford & Kris Jones Ever feel like you're constantly creating content but your ideal clients still aren't finding you? (Trust me, you're not alone in this struggle!) ? I recently chatted with Uriah Guilford on The Productive Therapist Podcast about something that could completely transform your marketing approach: replacing ALL your marketing with one powerful signature story. Here's the game-changing truth I shared: Your marketing doesn't need more content—it needs more clarity. One strategic story that works like an accordion (expanding or contracting based on where you use it) can become your entire marketing strategy. **Want to know what happens when you nail this approach?** ? Potential clients instantly feel understood when they find you ? Your website becomes a 24/7 silent salesperson (even while you sleep!) ⚡ You build trust faster because your message stays consistent everywhere Sounds too good to be true? One of my clients went from struggling to explain their value to closing 95% of sales calls after we uncovered their signature story. I get it—as a busy service provider, the last thing you want is to become a "part-time marketer" on top of everything else. That's exactly why this approach works so well. It's less work, not more. Ready to discover your signature story and make your marketing infinitely easier? Uriah: \[00:00:00\] Hello, Chris, welcome to the podcast.  Uriah: Yes. I'm particularly excited about this conversation, um, because I think some of the topics that we're getting into, I know they're your favorites and they're Oh, yeah. Also some of my favorites, so this is, this is gonna be a good time for sure. Uriah: Before we dive into talking about how to replace all your marketing with a single story, I have to ask you two specific questions, somewhat related, but kind of unrelated. Is that okay? Yeah.  Uriah: So, uh, I'm just curious because I don't know, I'm wondering if you can tell me the story of the name of your business, which is Red Door. I know there's a story, I just, I'm curious to know what it is.  Kris: Yeah, absolutely. I founded the business 23 years ago, which is hard to even believe. Wow. Yeah, I've, I found my purpose early in life and, um, red was my \[00:01:00\] longtime favorite color. It's since shifted slightly into the hot pink tones. Nice.  I loved what, what it represented, and I really love this idea of a red door and the meaning behind that. So a red door signify signifies prosperity and also just like a nurturing, um. Experience. And so I love the idea of like combining those two things. That's what I help my clients do and that's what I want them to experience with with me. Uriah: I love it. That's fantastic. Yeah. One of the things that I actually really enjoy doing when I travel, um, whether it's in the United States or in other countries, is taking pictures of, of two things. For some reason, street art and interesting doors. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I know it's kind of random. Yeah. But, um. My wife and I were recently last month in \[00:02:00\] Ireland for a couple weeks. Yep. For a vacation and then, then also for a, a therapist retreat. And that's why I was taking pictures of doors. Um, so this is my second question for you though, because I was in Dublin. Um. I went and visited the Guinness Storehouse and did various Guinness related activities. And I saw on your website that you've worked with a number of iconic company companies, one of them being Guinness, and I'm curious if you have any stories about that. Yes,  Kris: yes. I, of course, I lived in Dublin. And Did you? So yeah, I was able to get a job with Guinness and work in their marketing department. Wow. So the St. James' gate and the whole place that you were at, that's where I went to work every day. I took two bus. That's amazing. Two buses to work there every day. Um, and it, this was in my twenties and. Guinness, if you worked there, they, you had free food, which for me, at that phase of my life, I was like, oh my gosh, \[00:03:00\] free food and you got one free beer a day. I can't remember if it was one free beer, two free beers. And so we would like. Stockpile and this lot of employees would do this. They'd just stockpile beer underneath our,  Kris: Cubicle desk. And yeah, it was amazing. It was amazing, you know, that smell of, um, a brewery and how like anytime I smell that I. Go back to that time in my life. And, um, and yeah, it was, it was pretty epic. They, those guys That's so cool. They know how to brand.  Uriah: Yeah, I was thinking about it because I went through their, you know, tour experience and it was really, really well done. Yes. But the most interesting thing to me as kind of a marketing nerd, right, was the floor, the, the section where they talk about their marketing campaigns over the years. Everything that they've done and really, truly brilliant. Um, the one that's one of the ones that stands out for me is, uh, some of the old ads that say like, Guinness for strength \[00:04:00\] or, you know, like, yes, they're really, yes, just like branding beer as like, you know, it's good for babies, it's good for men and, and, and all it's so, so funny and, and wonderful. Kris: Yeah, they do. You know, when I lived there Guinness, everyone drank Guinness. Um, and. Women would drink Guinness and Black Current. Have you heard of that? So like, wait, is that  Kris: With the syrup? Yes. We tried it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you? Okay. So it's still, I wasn't sure if it was that was still going on, but um, definitely, uh, yeah, I was telling my partner about that the other day. I was like, we need to go try it. Guinness and Black Current. 'cause it, it's a totally different it. Tastes so, so decadent and very different. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. You, you don't want more than one. 'cause it's like, it's a lot.  Uriah: Definitely. Definitely. But yeah, that's so great. Thanks for sharing that. I, I had no idea that you actually worked there. I just kind of thought maybe you worked for them for a period of time or worked on a \[00:05:00\] project, but that's fun. Yeah,  Kris: yeah. Yeah. I was really a, a lucky, lucky experience.  Uriah: That's fantastic. Yeah. So the idea of replacing all of your marketing with a single story. Sounds enticing, but almost too good to be true. Mm-hmm. So tell me a little bit more about this idea.  Kris: Yeah, so really the idea is that. Story is the way that we connect with other people. And there's a lot of psychology around story as you know. It's a beautiful way to build connection, build trust, and so we, we clearly want to be using story in our marketing, but how do we do that? I believe. Every, every business or business owner needs one signature story for their business. And that same story can be used in every area of your marketing. And the reason that you can use one story everywhere, the same story everywhere, \[00:06:00\] is because your signature story works a lot like an accordion. It might be a longer story, like on your homepage, it might be a, in a video script, it might be. This length and, and, and as a one-liner or an elevator pitch, it's the shortest version of the story, but the fundamentals of the story, the components of story, are the same no matter where you're telling it, no matter the length. And so when I work with my clients. We put together their story, we craft their story, and then we give it to them in all these different versions from long to medium to short. So then you can show up online. Very congruent, very consistent. If somebody happens upon you on social media and then they go to your website, it's all really in alignment with each other, that that doesn't mean you're being lazy. Like yes, it is \[00:07:00\] less work, which, what a gift. But, um, it, it's actually the, it's less work, but it builds trust quicker and half the battle as self-employed people. Is really just being remembered and being known for the thing that you do. And if you want that, um, this is the, the easiest path to get there. Uriah: Yeah, I like that you said alignment. You talked about alignment where everything kind of has a similar I. A through line. Is that, is that,  Kris: yeah. Like a golden thread. Is that the word?  Uriah: A golden thread, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that very much.  Uriah: So many questions in my head, but the first one that comes to mind is do you think that most business owners don't really think, when they think about branding, messaging, marketing, they don't really start with story. Kris: Oh, oh, it's so true. So true. And why so do you  Kris: think that, you know, um, part of it is just when you \[00:08:00\] become self-employed, um, the, the things that that sound the most fun are like, I need a logo. I need, you know, I need brand colors, or I need a website and I'm gonna. Crank one out, um, without really taking the time to figure out what do you want to say? What do you want to be known for? What type, what's the problem you wanna be known for solving? What kind of transformation do you wanna provide for your clients? Um, so. The, the story work that we do is the foundation. It's, it's that fertile soil in which everything else grows from. So if you can imagine really, truly, like dirt on the ground, and that is your story, that's the foundation of everything. And then as the tree grows, then that's like your website is informed by that, that soil, your branding \[00:09:00\] is informed by that. Everything that you do. Visually or in written form is informed by the the foundational story that we craft.  Uriah: But it takes a little bit of work to pull that out. I imagine with some business owners, I. Because they don't start there. They need to do, they need to kind of discover? Do you help them discover their story? Kris: A lot of people that come to me, they're a year in. Mm-hmm. Or two or three years in and that's fine. Like I don't think that anybody can really shortcut those first year, that first year or two. Like sure. There's so much bootstrapping and so much DIYing that is. So hard and so much learning going on. Um, and I, I just don't think that there's a shortcut around that. I think what's best is for you to do what you, you need to do. Slap up a website, you know, get your logo, get out there, \[00:10:00\] like, just get, get the wheels going, get a year under your belt and. You learn so much during that year around the type of people you like to work with and how do you like to deliver? Do you wanna work with groups? Do you wanna work one-on-one? And so at that point, I think is the time most people come to me and they say, you know, and I think back on the last year or two, no clients have come to me through my website.  Kris: I'm relying only on referrals. And referrals are great, but they're not a consistent way to grow your business, and you've got to have marketing tools set up for you on autopilot to continually keep your pipeline full. You know, potentially, hopefully get you a wait list. Um, so you constantly like have people that are lined up, excited about working with you. That's really the \[00:11:00\] goal. I think any therapist that goes into business wants to make an impact, wants to make a difference, wants to genuinely help people, and. They don't do that because they also wanna become a part-time marketer. You know, the, the marketing piece, true marketing piece is like this. Oh yeah. I didn't realize like I got into this business. 'cause I love to work, not because I want to be a part-time marketer and posting on social media and all the things that we can feel like we have to get involved in. We don't necessarily have to like. Social media being a perfect example. If you have a website that is set up to sell and you're doing a couple of activities to send people to that website, that's all you need to do. You don't have to be on social media all the time unless you really want to be. Um, but there are \[00:12:00\] so many options that require much less effort to. Uriah: I like those words. Less effort. Yes. You make a really good point. And, and this is probably true of other industries, but therapists in particular, we got into what we do because we, it's part of our story is helping other people being a provider of services and yeah, definitely marketing is not the zone of genius. So we kind of like do what we have to do to get the word out. Um, but we do. I think this is true of a lot of therapists. We do have a very personal story of what brought us to this work, and for a long time we were not, we were sort of discouraged from using that story because we were told not to self disclose to our clients and those types of things. Mm-hmm. One of the successes that I had early on in my solo practice was telling my story because I was a troubled teen. Mm-hmm. Who. Did \[00:13:00\] like try to, my, my parents tried to get me into therapy and that didn't really help. Mm-hmm. And I was a troubled teen that ended up becoming a therapist for troubled teens. Mm. And so I decided to just use that and tell that story.  Uriah: And once upon a time, years ago, actually hired a very talented copywriter to help me like actually put it into a story form. Mm-hmm. And that was basically my homepage for the longest time. And I. If, if I remember correctly, the, the title was something like From Troubled Teen to Successful. Therapist or something like that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the message was basically like, this is, this is who I am and what my story is. And now I've become the therapist that I wish I had when I was 16. Mm. And I told, I told some specifics about my struggles, you know, as a teenager, like. Real specifics, right? Mm-hmm. And what happened with that is I got so many clients because parents read that and they said, wow, this is a, a therapist who I think my son or daughter can really connect with. And this is a real person who has like, overcome things in their lives. And \[00:14:00\] it just unintentionally became very like magnetic, I guess. Mm, mm-hmm. Um, so that was a success that I had early on. Mm. And very happy about that.  Kris: Mm. That's it's really powerful. Powerful. I think part of what was. Working in there it sounds like is that you were of course showing that you struggled with similar issues as their children. You came out the other side as a therapist who now understands the problem so thoroughly, so intimately, and when we can show up and show. Our potential clients that we truly get the problem. We really get it through and through our brains or their brains automatically think you're the best one to solve it. It's, it's click connection. Incredibly powerful. Right? Yeah. They feel seen, they feel heard. Mm-hmm. You've shown some vulnerability and, and so we, there.\[00:15:00\]  There. Stories like that are irresistible to our brains. We cannot help but engage. And so you did such a beautiful job and you saw firsthand the power of a great story.  Uriah: Definitely. I think I had some challenge. I. Translating that into my group practice when I started that about 10 years ago. Mm-hmm. Which was Guilford Family Counseling, and now it's Intune family counseling like I was telling you earlier. Mm-hmm. And that that then became much less and less about me and my story, and people who were coming to us didn't really know Uriah or didn't really care about Uriah. Mm-hmm. Which was hard for me in a moment, but then it was fine, you know? Yeah. Um, so I guess I would ask you this question. Two potential scenarios. So let's say there's a solo or a group practice mm-hmm. Is, um, more general in nature. Mm-hmm. Like, they kind of work with all kinds of people, all kinds of problems. So there's not like a through line necessarily, or a golden thread. Mm-hmm. How, how would a business like that tell a compelling \[00:16:00\] story?  I would encourage that practice to really get clear on the problems that they solve and they could hone in, and maybe it's two or three problems that they solve, but I, if you're everything to everyone, you're nobody to anybody, or whatever that phrase is. Sure. It's like you, you actually kind of can't have a compelling story if you're not clear on. Essentially a single problem that you solve. Um, right. There are lots of creative, creative ways to keep things broad but clear. So you could create, um, a larger bucket like, you know, kids with anxiety or mm-hmm. Um, like families right there, there's. Endless issues that a family might have, but you're very clear that you're helping \[00:17:00\] families and you're very clear that you're creating connection, getting them in, in sync, and in tune with each other, um, in rhythm with each other. I really love that word rhythm. Um, yeah. When you're old, old name, um. There's, I have yet to meet a client where we haven't been able to do it. Um, there's always a way and I know how to ask the right questions that pull that story out. And because I'm not as business owners or as therapists, we're so close to our own selves. We're so close to our own practice, we're inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside. And so. I'm able to come in, ask the right questions, and truly because of that perspective, I can identify that golden thread and right. It, it really just bubbles up to the surface. Uriah: That's helpful. So it sounds like part of the answer to that would \[00:18:00\] be probably choose a couple different focuses or niches as we like to call them or niche.  Uriah: and then that allows you to clarify the messaging. And, you know, yeah. Classic Donald Miller example, right. With the website that sells pet food and they've got two buttons, one for cats, one for dogs. Yes. Is that a good example? Maybe? Yeah. Yeah. That's  Kris: a great example. Yeah. I mean if, if you're really, I would say 99% of the clients that I talk with are like, but I have two very different types of clientele. Mm-hmm. And I say there's always. There's always like an overlap on the Venn diagram. There's always a way we can essentially craft a story. So it speaks to both people. There are ways to set up the page that truly does connect with both people. Um, but in a situation where you're, you know, um, where you really wanna separate that out, then yeah, create a \[00:19:00\] page for this audience and a page for that audience. Sure. Then, then. You know, customize the message to each of them. Uriah: And then also possibly there's a way to take a, a business that serves multiple different populations and have sort of an overarching story or theme. Everyone deserves good mental health, or something along those lines. And that's for sure. And then you can talk about why that's important and, yeah.  Yeah. So you can really, as, as, there's so many ways to skin the cat, but  Kris: can create like a homepage that is an overarching message about what you stand for, um, who you work with. And then you can identify and give them the option to choose which one they are, and then go to that page and. And learn what you can provide for them there. That makes sense. Yeah. But I'm a big fan of, you know, doing the work and doing the heavy lifting to get clear, to \[00:20:00\] really have one message and one page. Mm-hmm. Most people will not navigate to a secondary page, and so I really like to kind of include multiple pages. Just on the homepage, meaning integrating the about page on the homepage, integrating the services page on the homepage. Mm-hmm. And not when people land on your website, you don't wanna send them on a scavenger hunt to try and gather the information they need to, to take that next step. So  Kris: yeah. A lot of times, um, we wanna be helpful and we wanna, you know, show. Our potential clients, all the things that we know. But your website in particular is like a first five minute coffee date. It's just there to create enough interest, intrigue, trust for them to wanna, you know, hop on a call or take whatever that next step is that you want them to take, fill out your form. \[00:21:00\] Um, it's just to get them to. Excited about moving forward if they're the right type of client for you. Uriah: Yeah, there's it, it you only have nanoseconds if that seconds to like grab the attention of somebody. Yes. Yeah. And what do you, what do you think are some of the best ways to do that on a website, on a homepage with, without scrolling? I have some ideas in my head. I'm sure they're probably the similar ideas, but how can a therapist, once they craft a compelling story, how can they best present that on their homepage so that when somebody lands on it, they go, oh,  Kris: Well there, there's nothing wrong with having a, having them scroll on your homepage. Sure, it's much clunkier to move from mul to multiple pages, but if they land on your page, that upper section, which I call the hero or the header section, right? It's the first thing that they \[00:22:00\] see on your website. It's usually a big image and a big headline, and a subhead and a. And a button. And, um, this is really the most important work that you can do because when they land on your website. They're wondering, am I in the right place? And you have to give them the information that they need to identify that. And then that way, people that aren't looking for what you're doing leave, which is a good thing. And the people that are looking for what you're doing stay. And if you've done the heavy lifting of getting clear. And you're able to, within about five seconds, communicate what you do, how it's gonna make my life better, and what do you want me to do next? You need to do those three things in about five seconds. If you do that, well, then they're gonna continue to scroll, right? And so that's really the top priority. If, if you get that wrong, they're gonna bounce to another website and you've just \[00:23:00\] lost a potential client.  Uriah: It's amazing to me how much effort and work it takes to actually put together that image in those maybe 20 or 30 words. Yes. But how powerful they are at the same time, right? Yes. Yeah.  Kris: Yeah. It's very, very hard to do for yourself. It really is. Um, but if you have help and you have somebody who understands story and, and is good with keeping things clear and simple, it, it doesn't have to take very long.  Uriah: Absolutely. Yeah. As we're talking, I'm thinking about productive therapist and thinking, I need your help crafting a better story because. Uh, over the last seven years of having productive therapist as a business, we do have a core service and we do have a core sort of transformation that we provide. But me, with my creative entrepreneurial brain, I've created a directory and written a book, and I have a podcast, and I feel like I've got to the point where I've got. Too many things to where when I meet people sometimes, unless they already have been on my list and know me and know us. Mm-hmm. They're like, so \[00:24:00\] tell me, what does productive therapist do? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And really what I want is for everyone out there to be learning about productive therapist and telling some, some similar story, right? Oh, productive therapist. Yeah. X, Y, Z. Right? They're  Kris: known for, yeah. When you, when they ask you that question, how do you answer it? Like when they go, what does productive therapists do? How do you answer that?  Uriah: I just had that, I was at a conference, I was speaking in Austin, Texas to a small group of therapists and, um, a number of them knew of us and had, you know, engaged with us before and purchased our products and and services. But I was sitting at a table eating breakfast with a group of therapists and one of them who had clearly heard of me and us said, so tell me about productive therapists. What do you do? And so I told them about our core service, which is providing virtual intake coordinators for mental health practices. Hmm. That's the main thing that we do. Mm-hmm. But, mm-hmm. I spent a lot of time and energy talking about AI and like, you know, operations mm-hmm. And all kinds of other different things. So \[00:25:00\] it's, yeah. It's not as focused as it could be, to be honest.  Kris: Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, every good story begins with a problem. So when you answer that question, you know, I, I mean, you're clear on what you provide, but what's. The problem that you're solving, like many therapists mm-hmm. Waste hours of their precious time managing in the intake process or whatever is the problem. Um, tell me what is, what is the problem?  Uriah: Yeah. When therapists become successful, they. Find themselves overwhelmed and overworked. They become too busy because they're wearing all the hats, they're doing all the things, and then they wonder why they got into it in the first place. Mm-hmm. But the, the real problem is they just. Need some help. They need some help answering the phone, answering the emails, talking to new clients, matching them with the right therapist. Mm-hmm. And it turns out when they get a good intake \[00:26:00\] coordinator to take over that role, their life dramatically improves. And they're like, oh gosh. Reconnected with their mission. They feel like they can make a bigger impact and do what they're really meant to do. Something like that. That's good. Right? Kris: That was so good. It was so good. It gave me context around what you do and this struggle that these therapists are dealing with, right? They've finally reached like success. They should be happy. They're probably making good money, but their quality of life is like they're spread too thin, they're exhausted, they're on their way to burnout, and right then how are you gonna make an impact when you're burnt out? So. It's powerful. Really powerful the way you position that. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. I need to work  Uriah: on that, that accordion piece that you were talking about. I like that analogy of like. Same story, but sometimes it's long, sometimes it's short. Yes. But it's all the same, the same focus in a, in a sense. It's, yeah. Kris: The, the core foundations of every story \[00:27:00\] are, it be, it begins with a hero or a character that has a problem they don't know how to solve. Mm-hmm. So your clients are the hero of your story. You are the guide. Who gives them a plan that calls them to action and it results in success and helping them avoid failure. But you can, you communicated all of those components in what you just shared with me that was, you know, we could even go shorter. Um, mm-hmm. For sure. Definitely. And then definitely we could go longer, we would go deeper into all of those components on your website, for example. Yeah. I've done  Kris: Totally. I'm here for you. Yeah. Yeah. That's great.  Uriah: I, I wanna read you a quote from a book I'm reading recently, and you might have already heard this, but I'm curious, well, of course you'll agree with this quote. The book is called Same as Ever, by Morgan Housel. Mm-hmm. And the subtitle is A Guide To What Never Changes. Kris: Really? Okay, I'm gonna write that. So here's \[00:28:00\] a  Uriah: quote that I pulled out. Okay. Um, he said, the best story wins not the best idea or the right idea or the most rational idea. Just whoever tells a story that catches people's attention and gets them to nod their heads is the one who tends to be rewarded. Kris: Mm. Wow. Isn't that good? Yeah. That's really, really good. Yeah. I mean, and I think it's a relief in many ways. Like I. You don't have to, to have the best idea, you don't have to have 18 certifications. You have to have a story that mm-hmm. People truly connect with that. That's compelling, that's consistent, that's transformational. And when once you have that, like everything else kind of falls down like dominoes because. Just life gets a lot easier and you win. It kicks into place. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally.  Uriah: It also occurs to me that this might be one of the better ways to AI proof a business. Right? Because like \[00:29:00\] AI can do so many amazing things and it will continue to, to get better and better. Mm-hmm. But there's nothing that can quite replace. Uh, an interesting human story about somebody who did something, overcame something. Like you said that that hero's journey, right?  Uriah: Like, how do you, AI will never tell you a story that you're like, oh, I feel that, you know, it's just totally, it's not gonna happen. Kris: gonna happen. I mean, the beauty, the beauty of AI is that once you've got your signature story, once you've. Gone through the process of crafting your mm-hmm. One powerful story that you use everywhere in your business, then you can feed those components into mm-hmm. Chat, GBT, but you know, garbage in, garbage out, so you wanna feed it gold essentially, and then it can actually help make your life easier for other things that you want to create. Uriah: That's really good. \[00:30:00\] Okay. So I'm a person that's very actionable and like, you know, practical. Yeah. I think that's why people like to listen to this podcast, hopefully Uhhuh. Um, so all these ideas, I guarantee you that every therapist listening to this right now is nodding their head saying yes, this, um. So what would be some first action steps for someone to take? Who's listening? Who's thinking, I want to take the story that I have and make it better? I wanna, I want to build this golden thread with the accordion. All of it sounds amazing. Where do they start?  Kris: Well, I mean, I. You can read my book. I was thinking that. Yeah, the book, I have a book called From Click to Client and um, the book will is probably the most affordable way to really start implementing this work. Everything like my book and my freebies. Um, there's a lot of free resources there that people can tap into. It can all be found@reddoorstories.com. \[00:31:00\] And I would really encourage people to go through my five minutes to compelling copy process. It's a five minute video with a companion worksheet, and it's gonna pull that story out of you. Once you go through that. It won't take you very long, but that's gonna change the lens at which you look at your business and, and what the lens in which you. Talk about your business. Write about your business. Um. It's gonna change that lens for you, which I think is the most powerful thing that you can do right now. And then I would always encourage people to, you know, if you're in D, if you're in early days in your practice and you're wanting to DIY, great. There's a lot of free options out there. I've got a bunch of resources on, um, on my website if you wanna work with me. You can always book a call with me on my website too, and we'll talk about your story. \[00:32:00\] Um, my calls, I don't charge anything for the call, so we can look at your website, talk about your story and, and map out a plan. Um, so those are good. Those are really good first steps for people.  Uriah: Yeah, you have some excellent resources and your emails are really, really good.  Uriah: Yeah. And I always know that when I get an email from you what it's gonna be about, which, you know, there it is. Yeah. Yeah. You practice. Exactly. Kris: Bang, bang in the same drum over and over again. It works.  Uriah: I think it's an important one. Yeah. I appreciate what you're doing for all the businesses that you've helped in the past and, and present and future. Um, I think. This is what makes us human and this is what helps us to stand out. It's not hopefully dancing on TikTok or like broadcasting constantly on social media, but if you have a compelling story, people do want to repeat that, don't they? I mean, I think that's just kind of the nature of, of. How it works. Have you heard about \[00:33:00\] this? Have you heard about so and so? Yeah,  Kris: yeah, yeah. I mean, they're, uh, stories are like 22 times more memorable than just facts. So yeah, again, it's like how to be remembered and also people need to hear things about eight or nine times in order to even be able to commit them to memory. So the more you repeat, like when you start getting mm-hmm. Sick of your own story, that's when it's gonna really start to gain traction. That's the  Yeah. Why am I saying the same thing over and over again? Oh, maybe people are actually getting it.  Uriah: good. I've always seen myself or or thought of myself as someone who's not good at telling stories, and I admire people who can do that, like, you know, live in person at a party or around a campfire or those kinds of things. Yeah. But I literally have on my board, um, in my office it says, uh, tell more stories, but I haven't quite figured out how to practice that. I mean, I'm doing it in my writing, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, but like how to practice that in my \[00:34:00\] day-to-day life, how to think about. Mm-hmm. Talking and, and writing in that sort of format, you know, I dunno if you have any thoughts on that. Kris: Yeah, I mean, uh, so many there, but I do have a book recommendation around that. Please. If you're wanting, wanting to really practice that. There's a, um, a book called Stories, I think it's called Stories Sell by Matthew. Dickman, let me double check on that stories. Yeah. Matthew Dix sell, um, stories Sell Okay. By Matthew Dix, and he is like a 10 time moth, uh, storytelling grand. Slam champion, whatever it is. Like he is, he is a great storyteller. He, um, managed to McDonald's for many years in his younger years, then became a teacher and used story to like un, un like unconsciously used story. Um. \[00:35:00\] It got him to these incredible places. So, uh, he, it, it sounds like a book about selling, but it's really mm-hmm. A book about storytelling and also being able to do it verbally. Yeah.  Uriah: That's fantastic. Yeah, I'm definitely, I'll put that in the show notes and I'm going to go get that book today. Thank you. So  Kris: good. He, I listen to it on audio and I really feel like I got to know him better. Oh, good. I love books. That's, I know if you love audio books, but Yeah, I do. I'm all about the audio  Uriah: books. I like try to think of myself as somebody who sits down and reads books. You know, I still buy books and I put them on my shelf. Yeah. And then I go get the audio and I listen to the audio, which is kind of funny, but. Kris: not alone. You're not alone. I do know when I sit down to read a book, which is not often the feeling of having the page pages and to be able to kind of underline things like it, it truly is like such a different experience. Um, but I think as \[00:36:00\] you know, business owners and professionals, sometimes we just wanna like. Have it in our ears while we do the dishes or on a walk or whatever. And that's delightful. Like I, I think I'm an auditory learner and so I think it sinks in deeper when I'm, when I'm doing audible.  Uriah: Definitely. I agree. Mm-hmm. However, I will say this one thing before we wrap up. When I really want to like soak in the content of a book, usually it's nonfiction, of course. Right. But there are times when I will be diligent enough to sit down with the book. And a highlighter. Listen to the audio and then highlight as I go through. Ooh. Yeah. That it's a pretty good strategy actually. I like that.  Uriah: taking it in in multiple different ways, and then you have a touch point for getting back to the things that were interesting. Yeah. Oh, I should do that more. That's good. Yeah, I should do that more  Kris: that like, if you really wanna get, get really good at something fast. That's like the, that's the fast track study. Yeah. And, and then a little, um, \[00:37:00\] sticky note to mark, like certain pages. Yeah,  Uriah: definitely. Well, Chris, thank you so much for your time today and for people who are listening. Absolutely. Go directly now to red door stories.com and sign up for all the things, and by the book really truly, you won't regret it. Definitely worth it. Yeah.  Kris: Thank you for having me. It's been such a delight to talk to you.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/googlereviews ### Title: GoogleReviews ### Page ID: 7008866 ### Content: ## The Wall of ❤️ *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/the-power-of-storytelling-for-business-success-with-jenn-pike-and-kris-jones ### Title: The Power of Storytelling for Business Success, with Jenn Pike & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 7024915 ### Content: ## The Power of Storytelling for Business Success with Kris Jones ## The Simplicity Sessions with Jenn Pike The Power of Storytelling for Business Success, with Jenn Pike & Kris Jones Ever notice how the hardest words to write are the ones about your own business? (After 20+ years, I have yet to meet a business owner that doesn’t struggle with this!) ? I recently chatted with Jenn Pike on The Simplicity Sessions podcast about something that's changed everything for my clients: how a single, powerful story can replace ALL your marketing. In our conversation, I revealed why most business owners are working way too hard to get clients (hint: it's not about creating more content—it's about creating the RIGHT story). ? Why most websites fail to convert (and the simple shift that changes everything) ? How to craft your "one-liner" that makes people instantly understand your value ? The exact tools I use to create videos without the tech overwhelm (even if you hate being on camera!) As business owners, we're drowning in marketing advice telling us to be everywhere at once. But what if you could focus on just ONE story that does the heavy lifting for you? Ready to make your website work as hard as you do (so you can focus on what you actually love)? I mean, in a crowded market, which you know most of us are in, uh, you have to figure out ways to stand out and be you and not be looking at other people in your industry for inspiration. Yeah. And the best way to do that is just really to focus on. How are you different? What are you doing differently? 1, 2, 3, 4. You are listening to the Simplicity Sessions podcast. I am your host, Jen Pike. Join me for weekly doses of simplicity, education, conversations, and inspiration all around women's health and hormones, movement, mindset, motherhood and business. All of the audacious elements of who I am, what I bring to the world, and quite honestly, a permission slip. For you to do the same together, we are going to create more simplicity and needs \[00:01:00\] in all that you do while living your most audacious life in business, your health, and building your wealth. Don't forget to leave a rating and review, as well as hit that subscribe button so that you never miss an episode. And while you're at it, take a screenshot and tag me at Jen Pike to share on Instagram. I will re-share that baby out to the community and once a month I'll be doing a draw from those re-shares and be sending you something pretty special. Thanks so much. Now onto the show. 3, 2, 1. Yeah. Hello everyone. Welcome back to another weekly episode of the Simplicity Sessions podcast. I am Jen Pike, your host. You are listening to a Thursday episode, which is where we dive deeper into the business, behind the scenes of the business. We talk about mindset, motherhood, money, all of the. Things that go into either running your own company or being a subcontracted, you know, employee or being a practitioner. A clinician, I do tend to attract a lot of \[00:02:00\] those and what I'm really excited about in our conversation today is I have a story brand guide, and. Founder of an incredible company called The Red Door Designs, Chris Jones, who was mentored by the author of Building a story brand, Donald Miller himself with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike and Adidas under her belt. She's extremely passionate about helping coaches replace all of their marketing with a single story. So they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. She's been able to achieve incredible transformations for her clients, including increased revenue by 300%, record breaking lead calls, and clients booked scaling from 30 K months to 300 K months, charging six times more for the same surface. And she really believes that writing copy for your own business does not have to feel like torture, which I know those of you in business who are listening are like. Yes it does. Yes it does, and it really does not. And in fact, once you know how to actually tell a \[00:03:00\] compelling story, it can be fast, it can be easy, and it can be fun. And I would also say that there is a layer of simplicity and ease that comes along with that. So welcome Chris to the show. I am very excited for this conversation today. Oh, Jen, I'm really thrilled to be here today. Thank you. So you do something that I think is, um, very under, uh, serviced in the industry, which is help business owners really learn how to craft not just their own story, but the ability to really convey that story in a way where they are developing an a relationship with their potential customer, client, consumer. And so. Let, let's just open it up by diving right in and talking about what it means to actually have your story ready to go. Well, liberation number one. I mean, when you, when you have a story, and I believe every business really only needs \[00:04:00\] one story to really effectively market because you're, once you have a, a powerful, compelling story. You can repurpose it literally everywhere. So it can live on your website, it can inform your podcast interviews, it can inform your calls with potential clients. Um, it really works like an accordion, so it can stretch out wide and it can. Get really narrow. You, you can use your story even to answer that question. What do you do that makes a lot of self-employed people cringe, right? It's like, how do I describe what I do in a clear and concise way that opens up a, a, a deeper conversation that's really ideal? Um, when you have the right words and when you have a compelling story, what. What happens as kind of a byproduct of that is just more confidence. You really know. You really get clear on how \[00:05:00\] important, uh, on the problem you solve and how important it is, and you have the words to be able to talk about it clearly, and that allows you to show up with more confidence everywhere you go. So yeah. I, I feel like, you know, when I look back to all the years that I've been in business, and especially when more email and online marketing started to happen, there was this. Insanely long, you know, sales script page template you are meant to follow. That was just bullet points on top of bullet points and over scripted and this is what you get. And it was very much focused on that. And what you're talking about is actually the antithesis of that. Yeah. Which is like you are, when I listened to you talk about it, I'm like, you're immediately going for like the, the heart of the individual that you're trying to connect with and be like, I see you. I get you and we share our stories. Mm-hmm. We let the person on me receiving \[00:06:00\] end, like drop their shoulders a little bit, because that's like where resonance happens. If we hear something from someone, we're like, oh, they've gone through this, or they've had this experience. So if you think about it through the lens of. Did you, I know you didn't, you know, coin this in terms of like what you're teaching. You've had incredible mentors before you, but you obviously really have been able to identify gaps in marketing and in advertising to go in and help companies and individuals replace these long sales pages. Mm-hmm. Using video and using storytelling. So can you give us some examples of. Industries where this works really well. Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, all industries. I hate to just do a blanket statement like that, but it, it can work effectively. Well, let me put it this way. For service providers, when you are the face of the business, it is \[00:07:00\] your business and you can't multiply yourself and be everywhere. You really wanna just do the work. You're. You're on the planet to do. You wanna serve your clients, you wanna to use your gifts, and you don't wanna become a part-time marketer. And so it's even more important for these people to have tools that work for them on autopilot. The truth is most people are looking at your website on their phone, number one. So it's different than kind of in the earlier days. The other thing is our brains are just inundated with information coming at us from all directions. And oftentimes we're looking at a website while we're in, you know, line to get a latte. And so because of this we have to write websites in a different way, in a way that. Our brain can really digest the information and the story can really unfold on a single \[00:08:00\] page. I'm not against a longer format page. Mm-hmm. But the endless, endless, endless pages, I mean, people just don't read it. They don't have the patience for it, and you essentially lose trust by approaching it that way. The idea is for someone to come to your page. Your website and to really feel like they've sat down and had coffee with you. When you sit down and have coffee with someone, you don't sit down and go, Hey, let me, let me tell you about how I can solve your problem. Uh, this is how I can do it. And these are the features and these are the benefits. You sit down with them and you connect first. Right? So it's like. What's going on for you? What are you struggling with? What are you hoping you know? What are you hoping to experience in your life and taking the time to connect in person. It's no different on your website. We really want your \[00:09:00\] website for them to essentially feel like. They've come to your website, they are the priority. They are the central character in your story. They are the hero of your story. They matter more than you and your wonder, you and your wonderful way of solving this problem. Um, first we wanna establish that connection. We wanna establish trust. People don't. Work with the best of the best. They work with the one they feel the most connected to. And so through story and through strategy, we can really, I. Recreate that feeling of like virtually having a coffee with you even if you're not there. Through messaging, through video and through the flow of the page. There's two things that you've said in there I think are really important for us to circle back to and put a pin in. And the first part is that, you know, you bring up such a good point in that most people are \[00:10:00\] mobile device users now and how they're taking in their content and what usually people are gonna number one. Formatting is so different. So if it's form, and you have to know this as a business owner, how you format for a webpage on like a computer versus a phone. You've gotta test both of these to make sure that it shows well. The second piece is people nowadays, if they don't see what they're looking for in three swipes or they don't see the price, they're a like it. It's not, people are not doing that anymore because they're, like you said, over-consumed. Mm-hmm. And then. The other piece in that, that I really love is the connection piece. So this is it. This is why Instagram stories and videos do so well, because p and reels, right? Anything where people are getting a glimpse of you and your life, it doesn't even have to necessarily be about the product. They wanna like sample you, right? And, and get a feel for that because you're really, you're, you're buying relationships. Business. That's what people are paying for. They hope there's a \[00:11:00\] transformation on the other side of the relationship, but that's really what, what people are saying yes to. So you coach business owners on how to create their one minute story and, and how, how do you do that? Mm. Well, uh, you know, we follow the, the story formula, which is the same whether you're reading a book, going to a movie, hearing a story, hearing someone share a story. It always follows the same formula, which is, it begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. They meet a guide with a solution. To their problem. That guide gives them a plan that calls them to action, so they are inspired to take action, and then we pull them through the story through stakes, meaning success can be had, but failure could also be had but avoided. So those are all just like a smattering of all the components that that.\[00:12:00\]  Are integrated into every story. So to answer that question, what do you do in a compelling way? You wanna, you wanna follow that same structure, you only have a couple sentences to do it in. So how do you do that? You begin with the hero that has a problem. Every story, even every post, every conversation. Ideally begins this way because that's what pulls our brains in our, our brains can't help but engage when our communications begin with a hero that has a problem. So you wanna brain dump what are the struggles that your clients are having and, and do it in their words. And when you get on calls with them, what are they complaining to you about? And. Get that down on paper and then you wanna start your story that way. Like, you know, Mo, most health practitioners are ashamed of their web \[00:13:00\] website and it's not working effectively to bring them new clients or patients. That's a problem. And if I share that with someone, they're gonna lean in. 'cause we can't help but wanna know like, where is this gonna go? Is this problem gonna get solved? Yeah. So we wanna always begin the answer to that question with that. And then we wanna position our service as the solution to the problem. So I write stories and. Create websites that are perfectly aligned with you and your expertise so that you can get more clients, grow your business, have more free time. So notice like in two sentences, I started with a hero that has a problem. I stepped into this story as the guide with a solution, and then I pulled them through the story. By \[00:14:00\] ending it with the success and you, you've done it in a succinct way in which I think, and I could definitely be that person where I'm wordy, I. And so I could say what you just said, but probably in a paragraph. And so it's taken me time over years of building a business to learn like what people call your elevator pitch, right? Like you got 60 seconds, maybe less. Can you condense what you do? The the other stuff can be the followup when someone leans in and goes, oh, tell me more. Yes. So I think that's like such an important distinction. Now a question I have around that is, what have you found to be the difference in terms of, um, success with having the story written versus the story verbalized, like on video? Or do you recommend both? Ooh. I highly recommend both. Yeah, I mean the, the one, what I call the one liner, which is kind of like an elevator pitch, but it, it's not like salesy. I think the elevator pitch \[00:15:00\] can get a bad rap at being like too salesy, right? I don't think that, but that's kind of like cultural belief. Um. When you have a one-liner, you can put it in the, in your email signature. So literally every email that you send out, that's that two sentence story is under your name. This is how people begin to remember what it is that you do. And half the battle of marketing is just being remembered, right? So if you can. Take the time to drill it down. And I have a freebie that will walk you through exactly how to create this for yourself. Perfect For no charge on my website. So, um, you can put it in your email signature, you should print it out and just set it by your computer so you begin to memorize it. People that have an answer to the question, what do you do? It's not 'cause they're. They're quick on their feet, it's because they've actually memorized the answer. And once \[00:16:00\] you've memorized it, you can play with it a little bit. But I'd highly recommend memorizing it. Use that same two sentence story in your social media profiles. It's a much more compelling way to show up on social media in, in your profile. You can put it on your LinkedIn, wherever you show up. It should be with you everywhere. So the written version is great for things like that. Um, the, the video. Version of your story. Um, it's equally as important. Um, I think you really need both. On, on the pages that I build for my clients, I always have them step into the story as the guide and we record like a one minute to 92nd video. Of them, and I write the script for them and we introduce them as the guide in the story \[00:17:00\] that way. But I always follow that up with a written version of that story. So either way, right? We wanna capture people who are. In an environment, they're probably on their phone again, but like in an environment where they can absorb video, a, k, a, not at Target or not in their car, and they can watch the video, great. Then they're gonna get to know you. They're gonna, so much comes through in video that doesn't come through. And still photography your energy, your tone, your authority, your expertise, your heart. Yeah. And. Um, we don't wanna miss out on that just because we're shy and we'd rather have still photos. So what I typically encourage my clients to do, and there are tricks that you can do to make it much easier on yourself if you're, if you are a little shy or not eager to get on camera, I don't know many people who are. Yes. So there are, there are tools, um, that we \[00:18:00\] can talk through today, but just that make it easier. Um. To get on camera and to make you feel more comfortable. Um, so we begin with that and then I follow that up with a written version of, you know, you stepping into this story as the guide. I think that it would be really beneficial for our audience to talk about some of those tools because I do a lot of business mentorship for business owners and. It is, there's a lot of fear around pressing record. Some of it is, it's confronting when you see yourself right on video, and we're always very critical of ourselves, but also we can be critical about the sound of our voice or tonality and this, you know, wanting to get it perfect and wanting to get it right. So I would love if we could talk about some of those tools. And then I just had one question before we do that, which is, do you notice or have you measured different conversion rates versus a video that \[00:19:00\] would be recorded with captions versus not? Because I'm just thinking when you're talking about like the person who's standing in the line somewhere reading captions. Like I, I notice a difference in my Instagram stories. For engagement on the stories that have captions versus don't. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's hugely beneficial. You should always, always have captions. Even if somebody can hear the audio, the captions are almost become just like an added, interesting graphic, you know, for people can hear. Right, right. Like it's, yeah. Yes. It's really fun and the spelling right all the time, but close enough. Right, right. Close enough. Yeah. People are pretty, pretty forgiving. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's. If, if you have the option, absolutely add captions no matter what. And that way you're just making sure too, you're going to be able to connect with all kinds of people, should people have a disability. Um, and, and even those who don't, I just, it's \[00:20:00\] just helpful to kind of have your message reiterated in a way with, with the words. You love it. Love it. Okay, so let's dive into some of the actual tools to make this easier. Okay. Okay, so the number one tool that I recommend for my clients is called Big View. Have you heard of Big View before? Oh, I haven't. BIGV, um, I think it might be.io or.com, but it's big view and what I love about Big View is that. You can just copy and paste your script into big view and it's a teleprompter and recorder in one. Um, so I love that because it's hard to memorize the script and. When somebody is reading a script and you can tell that they're reading it, it feels less genuine. So what we really want to make sure that it doesn't look like you're reading this \[00:21:00\] script. We want it to feel like it's really coming from your heart, which it is, right? Because you've written it, but we, we don't want it to appear like you're reading. So a couple great things, the teleprompter. Is hugely helpful for this. And then you can just focus on reading the words and not focus on your own image. Um, and then they have a touchup option in there so you can touch up your appearance. You can make it look like you have makeup on. If you don't, you can, uh, you can have it. Make the eye contact looking directly at the camera. So even if there are subtle eye eye movements of you at the teleprompter, right, it will, it will adjust that, um, it just can take the edge off. Of like when I do my videos, I turn on that touch up and I'm like, okay, that's better. Um, so I really love big view for that \[00:22:00\] reason. And I have challenged myself with like, I had a video to do, but I had a lunch to get to in 10 minutes. So I said, I'm not gonna overthink it. I'm gonna get the video done before I leave. And I got it done and I left. And it was just like, sometimes those little micro deadlines, we think we need an hour to get a video done. Oh yeah. If you can just, you know, how simple can you make it? Yeah. I was like, whatever time you allow yourself is the time that will take, take you to get it done. So if you just create more time, you're just gonna procrastinate and still do it in two minutes. A hundred percent. A hundred percent, yeah. And then the other thing that I do, um, that I use is script for editing to script is revolutionary when it comes to editing because you don't have to know how to edit video. Essentially, you upload your video into descrip and it turns it, it. It basically creates a transcript and then you edit the \[00:23:00\] transcript instead of the video, and all the video changes happen based on the changes that you've made in the transcript. So it allows you to just, basically you're editing a Google Doc, that's what it feels like. Oh, wow. But you're actually editing your, editing your video. And so the beauty of this is that I might say one line, four or five different times. And I can just go in there and remove all the other ones instead of starting over and being like, I'm gonna do another take of this where I can do it perfectly. If I flub up a line, I just repeat it knowing that I can delete it into script. The other thing is script has AI baked into it, so I could just say, remove, um, remove all the repeat takes and keep only the best ones, and it'll do that for me. The advancement of technology with AI specifically is insane. We, I have been spending \[00:24:00\] a lot of time, I was very resistant in the beginning to it. I, for lots of reasons, um, but it is clearly not going anywhere. And it's one of those things in business that you do have to adapt because it isn't going anywhere. And so we've been bringing in a lot of training inside of our business mentorship programs to help practitioners and business owners. Because the amount of time you save yourself is crazy. True. And also I just find that things like this and what we're talking about, what it does for a business owner is like, business owners are visionaries, so you have no shortage of ideas and stuff that's taking up space when you can create something like what you're talking about here. All of a sudden you get to see yourself through a different lens. You get to understand what you offer in a more clear way. And now I really feel like it helps you flex your courage muscle and your confidence muscle as a business owner. So \[00:25:00\] I think this is, I think this is such a, and like it's a smart idea, but I also think it's really essential nowadays. It really is. I mean, in a crowded market. Which, you know, most of us are in. Yeah. Uh, you have to figure out ways to stand out and be you and not be looking at other people in your industry for inspiration. Yeah. And the best way to do that is just really to focus on. How are you different? What are you doing differently? What's working for your clients? And really just staying in your own lane and putting you out there more. Um, it through video, through messaging. When you show up more authentically as you, people can feel that. Yeah. And yeah. It is. Um, you know, we even recently started to play around with on Instagram when we have new followers \[00:26:00\] that are connecting. You know, nowadays you can have, you know, a canned templated response. You can use many chats and set up automation. But what we started to play around with was I actually recorded a welcome video. Hmm. That now goes out, that actually asks, because we're a company that has two different pillars. We have health and we have business. You know, like welcoming them to the page. And I would love to learn more about what brought you here. Is it health or is it business? Because now we get to qualify and, and vet what is the content and the information that's gonna be best for that individual. Then we can invite them into a health masterclass versus a business masterclass and create those things. So it is, look what you're talking about. You have to just test and trial some things out. Like when many chats first came out, we had a couple months, we were like, this is amazing. And then now we're in this place where we're like, still awesome, but people are \[00:27:00\] exhausted of many Chaz now. And so it is this thing where like you do have to be a little bit of, um, a magician and a wizard mm-hmm. Where you just have to keep trying new tricks. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And Innovatives. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Totally. And you know, for what a beautiful. Problem that you solved, right? Your people are getting to know you through that video and they're resonating with you and they, they're feeling like they had a quick coffee with you, and you're able to really find out exactly what they need so you can serve that up to them and. Market to them and help them genuinely. Um, so I would imagine for the time it took you to take that video, to create that video, like how much work that that's done for you in that Yeah. That small little Exactly. Bite sized chunk of work. Yeah. And I, I think it's also that thing where if you are. If you are marketing yourself as \[00:28:00\] you know, someone who works with humans and who is in a coaching or a consulting, mentorship kind of capacity, it is important for people to see that coming through, not just, you know, graphics and static content, which can have incredible. Value and knowledge and captions in it, but it's not really conveying who you are. And I think that right now the psychology of the consumer, the individual who's choosing where to spend their money is going to invest that money into transformative relationships, not just transformative products. And that's the era I think we're in right now is this is more like. The know, like, and trust factor is really, really important. Hmm. It's so true. Yeah, it's so true. And, and it's such an efficient way to get people to know you is through video. Yeah. Yeah. What you, you know, I know that you've said that \[00:29:00\] you can create this one video or this one liner and then you can be, you know, repurposing it and really constructing so much of your marketing around this. Is there an expiry on the video like. How often would you say to refresh that video? Or should you have a couple of different ones? Depending on maybe like, I'm thinking about the business owner who has multiple offers, so one video may, you know, talk to one ideal client solving a problem. Would you, would you ever recommend to have multiple, multiple videos? Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I really believe a lot of my clients, I would say almost all of them come to me and they're worried because they have multiple products and they're not sure how to speak to all the different people. Mm-hmm. And what I have found with my clients is that \[00:30:00\] there's always one overarching story where things overlap and there's always a golden thread. Because it's you. So there's a golden thread that that we pull out from your story. So we have this overarching story that does speak to everybody, and then we show them very clearly. Here are the three ways that I work with my clients. For you, it might be, are you, you know, a health practitioner? Are you in in the business or health? Right? So you've got those two branches of your business that would be on the homepage. And so at that point, I really like to essentially not require people to go to any secondary pages to gather the information they need to. To basically be able to take that next step. Gotcha. Um, I feel like, you know, when you're on your phone and you're going like this, it's a very \[00:31:00\] easy natural motion when you're strolling down, down the page trying to. To navigate to different pages in that hamburger menu in the upper right hand corner. It's very clunky and people will avoid doing that. So I, like, I, I think your website should not, um, be your resume, right? It's, it is a first five minute coffee date. It should create enough interest and intrigue for them to wanna take that next step for most of my clients, that that next step is to get on a call. You and then you can tell them once you talk with them what they need. This, this is a little bit different when you're doing courses and you don't wanna be getting on sales calls with people, but if you're doing a high ticket offer, they're gonna wanna talk to you before they give you thousands of dollars. You're gonna wanna qualify them as well. So it really benefits everybody to let them \[00:32:00\] hop on a call with you and then. Think of yourself as the doctor, right? You don't, when I go to the doctor for a cough, he doesn't tell me that he can also help me with chicken pox. If I, if that ever is an issue, he doesn't even bring it up. And I want, I. I want your listeners to, to start thinking of themselves in that way. When you get on a call with a potential client, they're looking to you for guidance to tell them what they need. So when you get on a phone with somebody, you can very clearly direct them, oh, this is the program that, that would be the best fit for you, and here's why. Right? So you're not basically giving them a menu. You know how it feels when you go to the Cheesecake Factory and there's like so many items on, that's what a lot of websites have these days, and, and it's overwhelming for people. And when you overwhelm them with too much information and you, you push it on them to make the decision around \[00:33:00\] what they need to do next, they will likely not. They'll get decision fatigue and they will not make a decision and now it's just paralysis and they just take their hands off the wheel and then they'll end up signing up with somebody who had one offer. And we're just like, do you wanna pay in full or do you want installments? That was the question I. Right, right. Yes. Yes, exactly. You know, you like, I've learned this over all the years because again, back in the day of the big ass sales page, it was also, you need to have a suite. What is your offer suite? Right. And you need to have, you know, and, and we still, because again, you're also, you are playing to the market of what people's budget is and what they're committed to. So it's not that you, I'm not as the. The, um, belief that right now I don't see it working for people who have small budgets to have one offer. Because if you don't have a big enough, you know, paid marketing, advertising strategy, budget, having one offer is gonna be difficult. Mm-hmm. So have a few things but not confusing your \[00:34:00\] consumer. Yes. Um, yeah. So, you know, I, I love the idea of having two or three offers and communicating that on your homepage so people can get a glimpse of it. Maybe there's a one sentence description under each of those three different mm-hmm. You know, the, you wanna show the breadth of what you do without like, dumping a lot of information on them. And so what. Happens a lot when you make them move over to an actual services page and then you have paragraphs and paragraphs of copy and de great detail about each and everything that you're doing. That's when people don't tend to take action. 'cause they're like, and a lot of 'em have, have good intentions. They think, oh, I'm gonna come back to this when I have more brain capacity or when I don't, you know, have to go make dinner right now, or whatever it is. Then we all know they never come back. No. Because someone or something else has grabbed their attention. It actually created more \[00:35:00\] simplicity. Right, right. Where it was just very direct. So, so the story really, it creates enough interest and enough intrigue for them to really wanna get, get on a call with you. And that's the goal. Everything we do is in service of inspiring them to take that next step of action. Right. And so depending on the offer, it's gonna be get on a call or click here and join. Yep. Yeah. For that. Yeah. So do you also recommend then embedding the video or a specific video directly onto a sales page? Like if someone's taken the time? Yes. Where they like clicked, they've like opened the email. They've read the email, they've then clicked to the hyperlink in there. Now they're on the sales page to have. A video that's in there as well. Absolutely. Definitely. I, I don't think you can ever go wrong with video. You don't wanna just get on video and like, you wanna know what you're gonna say. That's like probably the biggest hurdle of it. But once you've got that \[00:36:00\] down, yes. Get on video again. People, it does matter what you say. Um, but like I mentioned before, just I. Getting the feel for your energy, your vibe, your expertise, your voice, feeling like they've spent a little bit of time with you is really worthwhile. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, you know, I, I understand why people have the hesitation. Um, you know, especially if someone like says that they, that they don't identify as being a public speaker. Right? That same kind of fear of public speaking can show up when creating the content. But it is, as you said, it's like. Oh my gosh. The amount of time that we spend stressing and worrying about doing the thing, even like, it doesn't have to be perfect. Mm-hmm. You know, just like, get it done. Get it done once, put it out there, start to let it, like, grow some legs and do its thing. Mm-hmm. And then you see the, you know, the beauty of that on the other side in terms of the result. Then you could go back and be like, alright, I'm ready to, you \[00:37:00\] know, redo this video. Um, I also think it's a great idea because if you're somebody who's doing public speaking or even you're pitching to go on podcast. If you have your one liner, you have your video. This is part of how you can actually pitch yourself as well. A hundred percent. Even if you got your one liner right? If you, if you write your one liner, it should take about 10 minutes, and then you record yourself saying your one-liner to the camera on Zoom. Open up Zoom. Hit record. Say you're one liner, just that is going to say so much more about you and help you become much more memorable and show up more as an authority in your, in your industry. So yeah, baby steps. Yeah. Well, and for everyone listening, we'll make sure to link up. Um, you have a free link, like you said, where you can go onto your site and you can start to work through this, which, yes, I think this is something that, \[00:38:00\] you know, if you're listening to this and you've been struggling with getting your voice out there and or you've been struggling feeling like, I remember a time in my career and people would say to me like, what is it you do and what is it you do? And I'd be like, oh, I feel like I talk about it all the time. But if people still aren't understanding, sure. That I'm losing them somewhere, right? And so to be able to just come back and, and put that work into action 'cause there's nothing more frustrating than I was just having this call with a client who's so excited about all these ideas in business and there's some fear there. And you know, she's kind of just been sitting on the ideas for months and I said, look, it. Just put something out into the world, like create some inspired action to alleviate some of the anxiety and start to move some of what's in you out there. And then as you get it out, now you can finesse it. Now you can kind of tweak it, but right now all it's doing is just taking up space. Totally in your brain, in your brain, brain. It's like, you know, the \[00:39:00\] typical garage that's full of boxes and you can't really identify. When you walk out into the garage and it's full of boxes, you can't identify what is the treasure, what's the gold mm-hmm. Versus what's the trash. And that's what happens as entrepreneurs and practitioners and our brains. We have so many ideas and so many ways we wanna communicate our work and help our clients that it, it starts to get really full just like a garage would. So yeah, pick one box, sort through it. One idea, get it out there. Just like you said to your client, that's beautiful. Yeah. You gotta Marie Kondo this. Like get there, have you to hold it, be like, is it coming with me? Does it bring me joy or can I release it? Yes. And let it go. Right. So true. I think that's actually, I think that is where so much fatigue and burnout comes from with business owners is. It's not always about that we're \[00:40:00\] doing so much work, it's that it takes so much energy right now to get work and like that's the reality for people is it's taking a lot of energy on the front end to acquire new clients and to fill your programs. And because most people were not taught or trained any of what we just talked about or how to actually build a business, they were just taught how to. Do their skill as the, you know, certified, registered, whatever, that, that's where the fatigue is. It's like, I feel like I'm trying, but I'm throwing random stuff out there. Nothing's landing, and I'm exhausted and I'm still not making money. So you've given them a very clear directive. Can you do this one thing? Can we like bring it all in? Because what I love Chris about this is that if more business owners can do this one thing. It births the clarity for all the other stuff. Absolutely. It is literally the foundation. It is the soil from which everything else can grow \[00:41:00\] with much more ease, much more clarity, and much more simplicity. But you have to start with that foundation. Otherwise you really are throwing spaghetti at the wall. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So good. Well, this has been a great conversation. I've loved having you on the show. I really feel like people are gonna have a, a huge aha and takeaway from this. Where is the best place for everyone to continue to follow your work and to check out what it is that you were doing? Yeah. The best place to find me is at my website, red door stories.com. There you can get the freebie, which is how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. That will literally walk you through how to write your one-liner, and I promise it won't be hard. Um, and then you can also find me on Instagram at Red Door Design. Love that. Alright, we will make sure that all of that is linked up into the show notes. Once again, thanks so much for being here. Thank you for \[00:42:00\] having me. You are so welcome. And to everyone listening, as always, I hope that today's episode and conversation has created a little bit more simplicity and more ease and all that you do. And we will see you back here next time. 1, 2, 3, 4. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/creating-your-brand-story-with-brittni-schroeder-and-kris-jones ### Title: Creating Your Brand Story, with Brittni Schroeder & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 7024916 ### Content: ## Creating Your Brand Story with Kris Jones ## Redefine Business Podcast with Brittni Schroeder Creating Your Brand Story, with Brittni Schroeder & Kris Jones Ever felt completely paralyzed when trying to write about your own business? (Even though you're absolutely brilliant at what you do?) ? I recently joined Brittni Schroeder on the Redefine Business Podcast to share my journey from being a visual designer for big brands like Nike to becoming a master storyteller who unlocks profit-generating narratives for service providers like you. Here's what sparked my mission: After 23 years in the industry, I noticed something alarming - beautiful websites weren't converting anymore. The online landscape had changed dramatically, and my clients (and honestly, even I) were struggling to articulate what made us special. It wasn't just a writing problem - it was a perspective problem. We were "inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside." Sound familiar? ? Why 99% of business websites are positioning themselves all wrong (and how to fix it) ? My 4-phase "Mining for Gold" process that uncovers your signature story ✨ How the same story, told consistently, creates exponential results in your business I've seen clients raise their rates 6x, dramatically shorten their sales cycle, and feel genuinely proud to send prospects to their websites. All because they stopped trying to be the hero of their own story. Running a business is exhausting enough without the added pressure of figuring out your messaging alone. That's why I created a systematic approach to extract your unique story - because it's already inside you, waiting to be discovered. Let me write it for you. Brittni: Hey there. I'm Brittany Schroeder, and business and marketing are my jam. I'm here to walk you step by step through this crazy thing we call business. I'm a small town girl, chocolate Eden, diet Coke, drink, mom, marketing guru automation, Jedi, and all around good time. This is your weekly dose of all things business and life sprinkled with some fun. Welcome to another episode of Redefine Business Podcast. I'm excited for my guest today 'cause this is something a little bit different that. I know it's important and, but I haven't really talked about it a ton on the podcast, so I'm excited to dive into this topic. But welcome to the podcast \[00:01:00\] today, Kris Jones of Red Door Stories. Kris: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Brittany. I'm thrilled to be here.  Brittni: Awesome. Kris, go ahead and tell us, uh, all about you to, to my listeners, who you are, where you got there, all the things.  Kris: Oh my gosh, that's a big question. Mm-hmm. Um, I am in, in Portland, Oregon. Um, I have a business called Red Door Stories, as you heard, and I've been in this industry, in the marketing industry for 23 years. I started out as a visual storyteller doing brand, brand design and visuals and working for big companies like Nike and Adidas. And as time went on, I really began to follow my heart and start working with small business owners, solopreneurs, um, people that I could really relate to because I was on a similar journey with my business. So I pivoted the business. \[00:02:00\] I started working with, you know, a different type of clientele, service providers, and, um, I continued on with my visual storytelling. My. Brand design, beautiful website design. And then over the course of several years, the landscape online really changed. Um, industries were becoming more saturated. More and more people were becoming self-employed and the beautiful websites. That I had been building for my clients weren't as effective as they had been originally. I mean, back in the early days of the internet, all you needed was a beautiful website to be a legitimate business and to thrive. And then as, uh, the landscape changed online, I. You really needed more than that. You needed to tell a, a beautiful, a beautiful visual story, but you also needed the words that really communicated the essence of what you do, the essence of what makes \[00:03:00\] you different, and why you're the best choice. And so. At that point in my business, I was like, essentially my clients were the ones that had to give me the, the content or the messaging that they wanted on their website, and I watched them time and time again, struggle with this. And it's really hard to write about yourself. It really, it's really challenging because we're so close to our own business. It's like we're inside of the bottle trying to read the label. That can only be read from outside. Side of the bottle. And so I talk with a lot of clients who come to me and they're like, I'm, you know, I'm frustrated. I'm paralyzed. I don't know why I can't do this myself, and I, and I tell people, it's not just a writing problem, it's a perspective problem. Like you're so close to your own self and your own genius. That it's really hard to find the words to write \[00:04:00\] about it in a clear and simple way. And so watching many of my clients struggle with this and you know, full transparency, even my own website at that point in time wasn't. Really getting me the consistent results that I really craved. I was relying on solely on referrals at that time. And even though referrals are wonderful, um, and a huge compliment, it's, they're very inconsistent and it can be a very. Stressful way, at least. At least it was, it was a very stressful way to run a business, and so I just, I made it my mission to crack the code on this. Like, how can I tell a, a very compelling written, I. Narrative on a website and for a, like a, a brand story or a signature story for a brand. How can I do that with words and how can I pair that with visuals that are really in \[00:05:00\] alignment with and bringing to life that written story that we was so carefully crafted? And once I, you know, at, at that point in time, I. I just delved deep into storytelling. I became one of the very first, uh, certified StoryBrand coaches before the, the book building A StoryBrand even came out. I got to be mentored directly by Donald Miller, the author of that book. I read all kinds of other books. I traveled across the country to workshops. I, I just immersed myself in it and. Uh, the more I learned, the more I applied to my own business, the more I applied to my client's businesses. And it was mind blowing. What, what happened? Truly, it was like, I've just never, after, after so many years in this industry, I've never come across something that can. So effectively help a business grow, get \[00:06:00\] results, get more clients, whatever they're wanting to do, sell their, their program or their course. Um, story. Really is the thing that I doubled down on because I, I literally watched the results that it, that it provided. And the reason I love it so much is because it's timeless. Like we are, our brains are wired for story and we, when we hear a story, our brains can't help but engage. And that's such a challenge when we're talking about our own business. And when we're, we have our own website, it's really hard to get people to engage. I mean, how many times do you go to a website and then you click away and you go to the next website? It's because they haven't properly. Told their story in a way that's truly compelling and really inviting you into that narrative. And so, um, that's a very long answer to your question. Yes, that was good.  Brittni: What I, I, I love this because, you know, we talk \[00:07:00\] about, I help a lot of clients with like marketing and we talk about this like how powerful copy is, and that's a. A mistake that I see with a lot of entrepreneurs is they're not clear on their copy. Like it's, it's very confusing. So what are some of the, like the mistakes that you see people making when telling their stories?  Kris: Well, I'll start by saying they're number one. Everybody has a, a compelling story inside of them. There are people I talk to and they go, uh, my story is boring. It is not. Trust me, everybody has a compelling story inside of them. The story that I'm talking about is really what I call your signature story. It is your main brand business, personal. Story all wrapped up into one. And ultimately this is a narrative. It's a narrative that invites your potential clients or your potential students or or \[00:08:00\] whoever you are trying to draw into your business, it invites them into the narrative and it positions them as the hero and it positions you as the guide in this story. So when you think back to like. Star Wars, for example. Luke Skywalker is the hero. Yoda is the guide, and the thing that happens most often is that. Well, number one, let me just start by saying you don't wanna be Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker is the hero. He is actually the weakest character in this story. Yoda is the strongest character. Yoda shows up with empathy, wisdom, knowledge, Yoda, you know, puts his hand on Luke's. Back and says, follow me. I can guide you to success. And that's who we wanna be. In our signature story. We are the guide. We are not the hero. And the thing that I would say, 99%, 99.9% of the \[00:09:00\] websites I. On the internet, the business or the founder, um, or the business owner is positioning themselves as the hero of their own story and. As I mentioned before, the hero's the weakest character in the story. We don't wanna be the hero. Number two, there's only room for one hero in every story. So when we're the hero of our own story, we're literally kicking our potential clients out of a narrative. Out of the narrative, and that's why they bounce onto the next site. Brittni: Mm. That's interesting. So I, I love that because I, I've read, you know, I've read his book, the StoryBrand book, and it's really good and, and it talks a lot about that. And because a lot of times we, I. We we're trying to hype ourselves up. And again, it's not about us, it's about how we can help them and how we can do this together. So, um, what is it if people like work with you, like what is kind of the process? Do you, do you dive into \[00:10:00\] their story? Like how do you, how do you find that story for your customers?  Kris: Well, step one is the most important part of the process and I call that the mind for gold phase. And this is really where I remind you that your story is not invented or created. It's really mind. And so at that, in that phase of our work together, I know exactly the questions to ask you to pull this story out from inside of you. 'cause it's. In there, it's just, it's just mixed in kind of like, you know. A lot of people's garages have piles of boxes in there. Some of them are treasures, some of them are clutter and trash and need to be donated. Um, and so when you walk out into the garage, it's hard to decipher what, where's the treasure versus the trash. They all, they're all piled boxes on top of themselves, and our brains \[00:11:00\] are a lot like that. We're just. So close to it that we can't really identify what is really the gold in our story and what is the clutter, what is the noise that we need to filter out? Brittni: Mm-hmm. And, and, you know, talk a little bit about how did they, how do they tie that story into like the, their niche? You know, 'cause it is a story. Is it, is it a story about where they came from, where they went? Or is everybody's story different? Like, how do they find that story that connects with their audience? Kris: Yeah, I mean, it's part of that mining for gold process, so I know exactly which questions to ask in order to pull that story out from you. Your story isn't necessarily about your upbringing or your background. It's really a story that's relevant to your potential clients or your potential customers. So it's in, it's all about inviting. Your potential clients into a story with you, A story where they \[00:12:00\] can envision themselves as the hero. They're the central character in the story. You play a very important role in the story as well as the guide. Yeah. I love that. Does that make sense?  Brittni: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Um, Kris, tell my, tell my listeners how they can find you and how they can work with you. Tell them. Tell them a little bit more about what would be the next step if they need help with, with creating that StoryBrand.  Kris: So, um, maybe I'll walk you through briefly the, the process of working with me. 'cause we touched on the mining for gold. I. Phase. There are four phases of the process. So first we mine for gold. I pull that gold, that raw gold out from inside of you, and then I take your answers and I write your signature story for you. I do that because you're. Stuck in the bottle and struggling to read that label. And I can come in and look at you and look at your business and look at your brilliance and really \[00:13:00\] write your signature story for you, um, in a way that's really clear and compelling so you don't have to feel stuck looking at a, a blank Google doc. Um, so I write that story for you when I talk about. Signature story. Um, tangibly what that means is your website copy your elevator, pitch a video script for you, your signature story. Um, once we create it, we use it in every area of your business. So it works a lot like in accordion. You, we've got a longer version of your, of your story, maybe for your website, a shorter version of it for a video script, a shorter version of it for an elevator pitch. But it, it, depending on where it lives, it's gonna expand and compress. And so what we do is I craft your signature story and then I. Create all the different variations of it, so you never have \[00:14:00\] to create copy again for your business. You can just repurpose this and you might think like, well, really, can I just tell the same story over and over again? You can. The more you tell the same story, the more attraction you get, the more people feel confident that you know what you're doing, and the more. Easily they can remember you and you are, you become top of mind when they're struggling with whatever problem you solve. So step two, I write your signature story for you, and then we get on a, a collaboration call and refine the story together so it's perfectly and beautifully aligned with your own voice. And then. We build out your website and, and create all your other deliverables and apply that story to your website and infuse it into every area of your business. And then the last phase is signing more clients. So just you get to reap the rewards of having a really \[00:15:00\] powerful, compelling story, and you get to attract more clients. And when you get off on the phone with them, they're already pre-sold because they've felt such a connection with what you're putting out into the world and such confidence and trust. In you that by the time they get on the phone with you, they feel like they already know you. They're, they're already sold. So your sales calls actually become quite a bit shorter too.  Brittni: Yeah, yeah. I love that. And that's what marketing is, is becoming memorable. You want people, they might not need your service or product now, but when they do, you want them to remember you, and that's really powerful to, to build that connection. For sure. Well, awesome. Well, Kris, tell people how they can work with you.  Kris: You can find me@reddoorstories.com. That's R-E-D-D-O-O-R-S-T-O-R-I-E s.com, and my main offer is on that homepage. You \[00:16:00\] can also check out my private podcast. Um, which you can sign up for. It's eight episodes that really delve deeper into how to use story in your own business. And that can be found at my website too Red. It's actually at a unique url, red door designs.com/profit-stories. So those are the two places that I'd recommend you go.  Brittni: Yeah, we'll put that in the show notes for sure. Well, this has been so good, Kris, and I'm gonna check out those podcasts for sure. Kris. Okay. I like to end all of my podcast episodes with asking my guests two questions. So, um, the two questions are, what is your pet peeve and what is a simple pleasure? So what is your pet peeve?  Kris: I would say dove covers. I. Drive me nuts. Like there's gotta be a better way.  Kris: They're an nightmare when they don't, they don't, they're not aligned with the corners, and then they jumble together, and then the \[00:17:00\] actual duvet clumps together. Brittni: yeah, that is, that is a good one. I haven't had a duvet cover for years, and I don't miss 'em, I'll be honest with you. And I don't miss 'em with my kids either. Do you have like a comforter or is it just a plain, a plain  Brittni: I just have a plain duvet. I sleep weird because I like my, I have a plain cover and then I like to sleep with a blanket on top of that, so I'm, I'm a weirdo, so, but. Kris: You are not a weirdo. I have a plain duvet with no cover too, but my partner really likes to have a cover and so we're navigating this back and forth. Back  Kris: Simple. Pleasure is getting into my pajamas at like 5:00 PM  Brittni: Oh yeah. That is, that is. That's a good one for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you Kris, so much. We'll put all that information in the show notes and on the website so you can give Kris a follow and reach out to her and learn more about learning how to tell your story. So thanks Kris. Uh, \[00:18:00\] thank you. Let's not stop the party here. Head on over to my Instagram or Facebook group. Redefine your business. And let me know your thoughts about today's show. I will see you again, same time, same place next week. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/stories-that-sell-with-a-storybrand-copywriter-with-kristen-edwards-and-kris-jones ### Title: Grow Your Podcast Through Powerful Storytelling, with Kristen Edwards & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 7024926 ### Content: ## Grow Your Podcast Through Powerful Storytelling ## Amplify Ambition with Kristen Edwards Grow Your Podcast Through Powerful Storytelling, with Kristen Edwards & Kris Jones Ever notice how most business websites feel like glorified resumes? ("I've been in business for X years! I have Y certifications!") ? I recently sat down with Kristen Edwards on the Amplify Ambition podcast to share a counterintuitive truth that's transforming my clients' businesses: You only need ONE story to attract all the clients you want. Not 50 blog posts. Not 100 social media captions. Just one powerful story, told well. After 23 years helping businesses tell their stories (including my time with brands like Nike and Adidas), I've discovered something fascinating about what actually makes clients say “Yes!" — and it's not what most people think. ? Why making yourself the hero is quietly killing your sales ? How one simple story structure helped a client raise their rates by 600% (the same formula Hollywood uses for blockbuster movies) ⏱️ The "accordion method" that lets you adapt your signature story from a 2-sentence intro to a full sales page with zero extra work I know you're maxed out and the LAST thing you need is more marketing tasks on your plate. That's exactly why this approach works — it actually reduces the marketing you need to do while dramatically improving your results. Kristen: \[00:00:00\] This is Amplify Ambition. I'm your host, Kristen Edwards, and this is a show where I help you reclaim your time while you grow your business. Simplify your path to success when you decide to dream loudly. Welcome back to another episode of Amplify Ambition. I think this is the second time I've actually had someone come back. Twice. Um, so it's not because of how awesome her name is, but really because of the message and the work that she does. But welcome back to the show, Chris Jones.  Kris: Uh, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.  Kristen: Absolutely. Well, I think it's always important to bring who we are. To the surface. And so over the past couple years, I'm sure life has ebbed and flow, but what is the passion of the month or the season that you're in that not necessarily an obvious part of the work you do, but something you're really enjoying right now?  Kris: Oh, something I'm really enjoying. You know, I've, I've recently, in the last year, um. Written a book and that's what I've \[00:01:00\] been delving into. It's been kind of a new, even though writing is really my, you know, it's my profession. I have had never written a book before. And so that, that process was really fun and kind of getting to the finish line with it was. Even more fun. It's like, it's such a journey. There's like the messy middle part, and then it takes shape and then it gains momentum, and then you reach the finish line and then the, then you market the book anyways, so it's, it's been a really fun to like learn something new and, um, ultimately have a tool that allows me to be able to help people when I'm not around or if they can't afford. To work with me one-on-one, they can get the book. It's really,  Kristen: really good. Feeling a win, win win, right? You got to try something new, which is something that I think you and I are both always kind of saying like, well, you know, \[00:02:00\] try just to see what happens. Um, and then at the same time you're thinking about that long-term impact and, you know, giving access to, to other folks and for so many different reasons. And so yeah, that's like a triple threat right there. And, and  Kris: And I think the key word there is fun. Like try something new. If it sounds and feels fun, if it feels like drudgery or a homework assignment, don't do it. Like we're all in charge of our own businesses, so we shouldn't have to do the things that we, that we dread. Right. That's the whole reason we got into be becoming self-employed.  Kristen: Yeah, I love that. And such a beautiful reminder. So you mentioned this book and so I'm curious, you've obviously been an entrepreneur for, for quite some time. What led you to say like it's. Time to write it down. And has the message changed? Are you still kind of in the same niche and space that you've, you've kind of been in historically, like what's that \[00:03:00\] looking like for you?  Kris: Yeah, I mean, I, I've been in the industry now 23 years, which is insane to even think about, but been doing, really doing the work that I was put on the planet to do. It's evolved over time. I started out as a visual storyteller, like even as a child. And then in my. In my early days in my career, and then I started to realize that beautiful design can only get used so far. Like you really, the thing that will sell your work and your business or your offering is. Words, the right words. And then when those right words are crafted and they're clear and, and our ideal clients can really understand them without burning a bunch of brain calories and putting forth a lot of effort to understand what we do and how we can help them, then we wanna pair that with beautiful design. But it's kind of secondary, in my opinion, so, so the work that \[00:04:00\] I've been doing for many years. Is really helping people write their signature story and really. Finding the words that allow you to communicate what you do with confidence in a way that really connects with your ideal client and compels them to wanna work with you. And that's the work that I've been doing for year, many years now. Uh, so the. Fundamental work that I've done hasn't necessarily changed, but the reason that I wrote the book is because, so I've worked with so many clients at this point that I've honed my process to a point where I understand my clients, like inside and out, and I've iron out a process that has really streamlined, really efficient, really gets people from overwhelmed. Frustrated with their message feeling, you know, awkward when people ask them what they do. Oh. Or having a \[00:05:00\] website that doesn't. Properly convert, you know, bring in new clients and convert them. A lot of people that I work with have websites that when they really think of it, that website has not brought in any clients or maybe one or two over the course of a year. So that's not good enough. Your website should be your top sales employee and I. Firmly believe that because when our website can do that heavy lifting for us, we get to focus on doing the work we love. Nobody becomes self-employed because they wanna be a part-time marketer. They become self-employed 'cause they wanna do the work that they love to do. And so I love setting my clients up with tools that allow them to do less marketing and have tools that work on autopilot so they can really do the things that they enjoy. Once I had hundreds of people go through this process, and it was proven time and time and time \[00:06:00\] again that it worked, it became time and clear to me that now I can communicate this and hold people's hands through it in a book format so they can do it. Uh, on their own or kind of with me, I'm with them in spirit, right? I'm holding their hand through while they're reading the book. My, to work with me one-on-one is, you know, right around $5,000, which I. Is a huge value for what you actually get. I mean, you get all the messaging for your entire business forevermore, but not everybody's in that stage where they're ready to invest in their business. So it just feels good to be able to help people and reach people at, you know, a price point that's under $20 where you, you really get to. Peek behind the curtain and I walk you through every detail. I don't keep any secrets. I don't believe in keeping secrets. \[00:07:00\] Like I put it all out there on the, in this book, and you can take it and run with it. Kristen: Yeah. I, I love that. And I think, one, it's helpful that you're sharing your secrets and, and putting them in a book for, for people to access. But I think another thing, especially as, as a podcaster, and before we hit record, we were talking about audio books and stuff, and I'm like, I don't want to write. Anything down if I have the choice, um, and if I'm honest, but you are completely correct in saying that your website sells. And we did talk about that on the last time you were on the show. But I think when you think about that spa, right, if you're speaking on stages, if you're a guest on other people's podcasts, if you're going live on social media, there's so many audio visual types of things that we're doing where. That same message that we have on our website needs to be condensed into the three minute version or the 30 minute version. And so I'd love for you to kind of share like those principles are still the same. How do people. Dig in and say, okay, what makes \[00:08:00\] me unique in a world where it looks like everyone else is also a female entrepreneur? Yeah. What helps me stand out in my space and really  Kris: own that with confidence. Yes. I love this question. Um, I wanna start by saying all you need is one signature story for your entire business, and that seems kind of. Counterintuitive, you know, in a, in a day and age where we're like feeling obligated to create new content all the time, and I just totally take a different approach to that. And the reason why you can have one story that works for your entire business is because signature stories. They're, they're different than founder stories. Like your founder story is your background, how you got into this work, and it's kind of like a glorified resume in many ways. Your clients aren't interested in that. They wanna know that you can help them solve a problem. So the \[00:09:00\] stories that I write for my clients are less about the founder story, and that's more about crafting a narrative that invites your potential clients. Into a story with you, a story where they play the hero. Your clients are the hero, the central figure in the story, and you play the guide. You're the wise guide that can shepherd them to, that's the story that I'm talking about and it works a lot like an accordion. When you think of that instrument, you, you know that it goes like this. And this in order to play it. And if you're listening, I'm widening my hands and then bringing them together very closely and back and forth. And your signature story does the same thing. So the shortest version of your signature story is gonna be the answers to, to the question what you do. It's gonna be like a two sentence. Statement, it's still a story. It still contains all those story components. And then a longer version of your story might live on \[00:10:00\] your website, on your homepage. It might be a long format sales page, so that would be the longer version of the story, or a blog post or a podcast interview, and then. Maybe a medium length version of your story is gonna be a video script that I always write video scripts for my clients. And, but they're not too long. They're like 90 minute, 90 seconds, not 90 minutes. So. It's really malleable and the more you repeat that same story over and over again, the more people trust you, the more people remember you, the more respect you get, the more clients you get, because people are like, they are the the master at solving this problem. So it's way less work for us as business owners. And it's actually way more effective, which is key. That's the goal. And to answer your question, like what makes us stand out, what, what makes our \[00:11:00\] story different than than other people in our industry? I. The reason everyone starts to look the same in your industry is because everybody is looking at each other's website to gain inspiration from that website, and then they pull that idea over to their own website. Ultimately, everything just starts to look pretty vanilla and it's hard to to stand out. So what I want to share is that you. Everyone has their own unique, compelling story. Every business owner does. It is inside of you. Your story is not created. It's not. You know, pulled from inspiration from your competitor websites. Your story is like gold and it's mind from inside of you. And this is what that my book teaches you how to do mind for gold inside your own head and your own heart. So we pull out the gold that's inside \[00:12:00\] of you. We craft your story using timeless story principles, meaning there are really seven components that make up any story. Every story begins with a guide that has a, I mean, every story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. That's your client. Your client has. A problem they don't know how to solve. They're looking for a guide who can give them a plan that can call them to action, that will ultimately help them avoid failure and experience success. So those what I just shared with you in that last like 30 seconds, applies to every story you've ever heard. A, a great book, a great movie, a great spoken story. Always follows that same format. And when you think about movies that our box office hits like Top Gun, the newer Top Gun, like followed that formula to a t.\[00:13:00\]  Made a a bajillion dollars. Why not use that same strategy on your website? It works. It captures people's attention. It gets them engaged, and it's authentic. It's not, it's not a manipulative, broey marketing approach. It's timeless. It's real. It's gonna attract the ideal clients if they're the right fit for you. Kristen: Yeah, I loved the example you gave of the accordion going in and out of like, it's the same instrument and you just get to decide, is this a long note, a short note, a high note, right? But really, you know, as you said, is this the, the one hour signature talk that I'm giving at, you know, a presentation at a conference? Or is this the. Two minute intro that I give before the next question in a podcast interview, or is it the long version of sales page on my website for a particular offer. And to be able to ebb and flow and go in and \[00:14:00\] out the same way that instrument does of like, okay, this is how my story fits. This moment, but you're not changing your story. And then you also talked about it being authentic. And so whether you're speaking to a co-ed audience, a young audience, an older audience, all women, whatever it might be, it's like, well, this is my story. This is who I am. Here's the takeaway point that makes you the hero and how I solve this problem for you. But also like, don't show up in a space where you're not. Helpful. So like side note, but saying, Hey, this is a place where my interest, my expertise, my situation is going to help guide you to solve. Your problems. And so here's how I can bring it, I don't even know the technical terms of the accordion, but the in and outness of an accordion to, to make it relevant to, to your audience that they're like, Hey, you are able to solve my problem. You are the right person for me. And conveniently, there's 8 billion other people on the planet. So if you're not their person, they \[00:15:00\] get to go find the one that's out there that's able to help them. And if we're thinking about True Impact, it's about. Everyone getting what they need, but not us selfishly serving every single person ourselves. Kris: Oh yeah. We can't do that. I mean, it's, it's kind of a relief. There's a couple things about story that I find kind of a relief. Number one is story is a filtering device. So it really clarifies your message, and when your message is really clear, you're gonna attract the right people. If you wanna attract people that have bigger budgets, or you wanna attract people that are really invested, or whatever it is you're looking for, it's gonna attract those people. But it's also gonna repel the wrong fit clients. So you're going to, you're not gonna have to be on the phone with a bunch of people who you, you aren't passionate about helping and serving. So that's a huge relief. And then the other piece of that is that our stories \[00:16:00\] aren't really about us, which is kind of a relief, right? They're about our. Audience or our clients, and they're the central figure of our story. Not that we don't play a role, we play a very, very important role of in the story, but it's, in a way, it's the secondary role. We're the strongest character in their story. Story, but we're the secondary character in the story. So the hero, our clients are really that central character and that allows us to be able to focus on them, lets them know that they're the most important thing to us. Their struggles. We get their struggles, we care about their success. And when they've, and they meet you and they recognize that they're the most important thing to you, my gosh, does that feel good? And. Just the very nature of taking that approach is gonna help you stand out from everybody else because everyone else at your, in your industry, \[00:17:00\] very, very likely the business owner is making themselves the hero of their own story. It's happening on 99.99% of the websites out there. And we don't wanna be the heroes of our own story because that hero is the weakest character in the story. There's only room for one hero in every story. So when we are the hero of our own story, we kick a potential client out of this story. They can't envision what it's like to work with us. And that's why when you go to a website. And you're like, okay, this is a pretty website. She seems cool, but I'm just not feeling a connection. I'm going to bounce and I'm gonna move on to the next website. That's why that happens. We don't know it consciously, but, but subconsciously that business owner is likely making themselves the hero of their own story, meaning they're talking too much about themselves and they're making. All the communication about them, not about their client. And so there's no way to connect \[00:18:00\] on a website like that or with a story like that. And so we bounce. And so this, you know, you don't have to be dramatically different or unique or special to stand out in your market. You just have to really double down on making your client the most important central character in your story. Kristen: Yeah, and I think that's such an important thing to like let that simmer right of go look at your website. Am I being the hero or am I letting my client have that moment as the hero? And then also, where else am I doing that? Am I doing that in my other marketing of social media, my podcast, other things? And it's usually not a major shift, like you don't need to start from scratch, but what are those? Two sentences or what is the way that you can update your bio, that you're still saying, here's how I can help you. 'cause that is the entire point. Right. Um, and also, let's be honest, \[00:19:00\] most of us, like as, as consumers, we're like, I see myself in that new shirt. I see myself eating at that restaurant. They are out there marketing to make us feel like the heroes. And so let's do the exact same thing that's going to allow our clients to be like. She sees me, she gets me. She knows what I'm looking for. Let me open up my wallet and share. And so, like from a very practical business standpoint, letting your client be the hero is a way to make you profitable. But at the same time, we're also really good people, um, at saying, this is how I make a difference. This is how I get to enhance my impact. This is how I get to serve more, more people. So it becomes. A great balance and a win-win situation for you as a business owner, as well as your clients, that you're allowing them to be the hero in that moment. I love, I love the way that you explained that, so thank  Kris: you. Hmm. That was really beautiful. I loved the way you explained that. \[00:20:00\] Yeah. I think, you know, once you start to look at your business with this lens. I do have a freebie I wanna share with you that will help you get started and, and start shifting the way you look at things. But when you begin to shift, shift your perspective and look through the lens of story. It's really easy. In a couple of hours, you can audit your bio, you can add a signature to your email signature or update that you can quickly update your social media profiles. Profile copy. I mean, there's like a handful of things that you can update that in a single afternoon. Like your whole messaging is gonna start feeling more. Connective.  Kristen: Yeah. Well, I'm a fan of quick wins, so I think that this is a great resource and we'll definitely have the link in the show notes for everyone to go ahead, carve out some time, some afternoon this week, and let's make sure that you are making sure that you're the \[00:21:00\] guide and that your clients, your readers, your subscribers, are able to be the hero of those stories in a way that you're still being authentic to who you are. You're also able to help them transform their lives for the better with the work that you do. Yes, yes, yes.  Kris: Yeah. That freebie, it's called How to Write Compelling Copy in five Minutes Flat. It's a five minute training and a little worksheet. I hold your hand through the whole process. It doesn't take more than n minutes total, and it's, it's a way, a great way just to begin this process of, of shifting that lens and it that can be found on my website. Kristen: Um, well thank you for, for that, Chris, and as we're, we're winding down this episode and people are like, Hey, wow, I am so excited to wanna get the book and this freebie that you, you've mentioned, and I'll have those links, but really the message and the impact that you are looking to share in this world, what is that one thing you want listeners to remember this conversation by? Kris: I mean, just really the \[00:22:00\] power of a story. Like if you begin to really understand. Stand what story is and apply it to your own business. Everything will change. I've watched it for hundreds of my clients. I've applied it to my own business, like it really. And if we drill down even one step further, like make your clients the hero of your, your story, and you be that guide role and that free bi shared will show you exactly how to do that. But if you did nothing else like that's going to. Help. Help you reach the people that really need you. It's also gonna help you have a more profitable business. And it's also gonna help you do less work and focus on the stuff that you love. So you're not constantly out there trying to generate content. Just once you have your story, you just regurgitate it and. All the different ways and, and so that's what's really what I wanna help people with the \[00:23:00\] most.  Kristen: Yeah. I mean, I just got so excited that you're like, your one story's gonna do these 50 things. So Yes. I mean, talk about streamlining with efficiency of like, all right, you've crafted your story, you've, you've packed it up really well, and now you, like you said, just regurgitate it in different avenues. I think that's a great way for people to remember you and to, to. Really wanna explore more with red door design. So thank you so much for being on the show today.  Kris: Oh, thank you. It was really a joy to be here. And before I hop off, my website is red door designs.com. That's R-E-D-D-O-O-R-D-E-S-I-G-N-S. The freebie is there, the book. Is there anything you'd ever wanna know about me? Is there, so check it out and I hope it's helpful. Awesome. Thank you. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/stories-that-sell-with-a-storybrand-copywriter-with-neill-williams-and-kris-jones ### Title: Stories That Sell with a StoryBrand Copywriter, with Neill Williams & Kris Jones ### Page ID: 7024928 ### Content: ## Stories That Sell with StoryBrand Copywriter Kris Jones ## Success Genius Podcast with Neill Williams Stories That Sell with a StoryBrand Copywriter, with Neill Williams & Kris Jones Ever feel like you're drowning in marketing tasks while your website sits there looking pretty but doing absolutely nothing to increase your profits? (I've been there too!) ?‍♀️ I recently chatted with Neill Williams on the Success Genius Podcast about something that's transforming my clients' businesses - how to create ONE signature story that replaces ALL your scattered marketing efforts. Here's the truth: Your website should be working as hard as you are. It should be your most effective salesperson - working 24/7, attracting ideal clients, and doing the heavy lifting of selling for you. **Instead of trying to be everywhere at once (hello, overwhelm!), I shared my "marketing universe" approach that's giving entrepreneurs their time back:** ? Position your website as the SUN of your marketing universe, then choose just TWO "planets" (marketing activities) you actually enjoy ? Create a Signature Story that makes your CLIENT the hero (not you!) - I shared the exact headline shift that transformed one coach's results ✨ Cut your sales calls in half while attracting better-qualified clients who are already 80% sold before they speak with you I know how exhausting it is trying to spin all those marketing plates while actually running your business. That's why I developed a system that lets you do less marketing but get better results. Ready to get off the marketing hamster wheel? Let me help you. Neill: Welcome. I'm so glad you're here. You are tuned into Success Genius, the podcast where science meets success. I'm your host, Neil Williams, and I'm sure to unlock your full potential through the power of productivity, performance, and high performing teams. Success Genius is your weekly dose of evidence-based strategies for thriving female entrepreneurs just like you. We dive deep into cutting edge research from performance psychology, neuroscience and behavioral economics, translating complex theories into practical, actionable advice for your business and your life. Each episode will explore scientifically proven techniques to help you optimize your operations, elevate your team's performance, and achieve that elusive work-life balance. Whether you're just starting out or are a seasoned entrepreneur, success genius brings you the latest insights from the \[00:01:00\] frontiers of business sites. Did you know that entrepreneurs who apply science-backed productivity methods are up to 400% more efficient and effective than their peers took around? Because it will be uncovering the research driven habits, tools, and mindsets that set these high achievers apart. If you're ready to apply the science of success to your business and life, hit that subscribe button now. And if you find value in our evidence-based content, please take a moment to leave us a review. Your feedback helps us refine our formula for bringing you the most effective strategies for success. Now, let's dive in today's episode and unlock your inner success genius with. The Power of Sign. I'm Neil Williams, and this is a Success Genius podcast. Welcome to episode 270. In today's show, I'm joined by one of my very beloved entrepreneur friends, StoryBrand, copywriter Chris Jones. Chris has been on the podcast before, but today we're talking about something a little bit different. We're talking \[00:02:00\] about stories that sell. How once you find your story, it can be used to create a clear message across all of your marketing platforms, and even better, Chris talks to us about how you can simplify your marketing so that you don't feel like you have to be everywhere all the time. All you need to do is choose one to two platforms. Really make sure that you have a clear message on those platforms. Please enjoy this episode with Chris Jones. Chris, welcome to the podcast. Hello, my friend. How are you? Oh my gosh. I'm very excited to have you here today. We are gonna be talking about all the amazing things you've been doing.  I'm thrilled to be here and all our conversations are always so fruitful and energizing to me, so I'm excited.  Neill: Yeah. I, you are not, this is not the first time you've been on the podcast, but it's been a while. Would you mind just telling everybody who you are and what you do?  Kris: Yep. My name is Chris Jones. I \[00:03:00\] have a boutique firm marketing firm called Red Door stories@reddoorstories.com. Everything about me can be found there. I really love helping my clients craft a signature story that they can use in every area of their marketing. They don't have to be constantly generating content. They have one story. It. It's a powerful story that connects with their ideal clients. It helps build their business and they can focus on the work that they love and not have to become a part-time marketer on the slide. Neill: I would guess that 99% of the people listening are shouting Hell yes to that. At least the coaches. I don't know about somebody in the other groups of entrepreneurs. I think some folks really do enjoy the marketing and that's great. But I think a lot of coaches, again, this is generalization, a lot of coaches. Just love to coach and I like, I would just love it to just like clients just appeared and I didn't have to do all that like marketing work.  Kris: The marketing can be very time consuming. Mm-hmm. \[00:04:00\] Especially if you believe that you need to be everywhere all the time, which is like fundamentally this belief in marketing, which is not true. It's not actually the most efficient and effective way to grow your business. So it's a big relief for those folks and also. Most of the coaches that I work with really dread selling. They don't wanna, just, like you said, they want their clients to magically appear. And if you don't enjoy selling, storytelling is a really effective way to get new clients without feeling like you're having to sell. Neill: Yeah, and I think that's true for the coaches. I know lots of entrepreneurs that don't like selling, not whether they're coaches or not, it just doesn't feel like it feels achy for a lot of people. So before we hit record, you were talking about something with that is near and dear to my heart, which is simplification more effective, but less explain to me or would you mind sharing what the audience, your, like the universe and the planets example you \[00:05:00\] work and. This. Oh, true. And I love the way that you talk about it.  Kris: Yeah. So the way that I work with my clients, we craft your signature story and initially where that story will live is on your website. That's the first place we integrate your story. And what I recommend my clients do is really. Think about their website as the center of their marketing universe. Your website is the sun. Everything points back to the sun. And then you've got multiple planets circling around the sun, right? You've got Earth and Venus and all the other planets, and each of those planets represents a marketing activity, a way for you to show up and be visible, and that can be there. There are fundamentally about eight. Different ways that you can do that. So eight different planets, and it could be email marketing, could be one planet, or showing up on YouTube videos could be \[00:06:00\] another planet. In-person marketing, in-person networking events could be another planet, and social media is another planet. There's like all these things that we feel like we have to do in order to. Keep the engine of our business running. And I think social media is probably the thing that can drain the most time and energy from people. And it's this sense that you've got a homework assignment that is perpetual and it never ends, and people just believe that there's no escaping it. It's just part of being an entrepreneur. And the way I like to think about storytelling and websites is that. If your website is the center of your marketing universe, pick two planets that you really enjoy. For me, I enjoy guesting on podcasts. That's one of my planets. I also enjoy email marketing, so that's my other planet now that all the other planets. I have literally forgotten about. I don't \[00:07:00\] care about them. I don't have the bandwidth, I don't enjoy those activities. I don't do them. And it's so liberating and people really wonder like, how do you do this without social media? I figured out how to turn my Instagram grid into a really powerful sales page, and once I got that set up with 15. Really strategic posts. Those 15 posts work together to essentially let people know who I am, what I do, how I can help them, and that they point people back to the website. So I've, I haven't posted on my Instagram grid in well over a year, and I'm perfectly happy and content with that. And then I continue to nurture those two planets that I really enjoy. The podcasting and email marketing and anything I do on those planets just points people back to the website. And because I have a very compelling story on my website, I can have the peace of mind just knowing I \[00:08:00\] just send people there knowing that it's gonna be doing the job of selling. For me, I believe your website should act as your top sales employee. It should really feel like you have a sales person on your team that's doing that, selling for you and the strategic byproduct. Is that a term that you use? I feel like maybe I learned that term from you and I'm, and I think give you, every time I use it, is that you, once you have the words to talk about what you do, you. Feel a lot more confident about what you do. You're reminded about the importance of the work you do and the problem that you solve. And so the gift of this is that when you show up on, on discovery calls or sales calls, you show up with more confidence. Not only that, you've got the words to talk about what you do in a narrative structure. So using story on these calls allows you to not have to sell. You're simply having a conversation. But you're guiding the \[00:09:00\] conversation through a narrative and people, it feels better for you 'cause you're not selling. It certainly feels better for the person on the other end of the call because they're not being sold to. They're just really getting to self identify, do I wanna solve the problem that you're gonna help me solve, and am I ready to do that? The other thing that happens is strategic. Byproduct. Number two is the discovery calls are, or the sales calls get cut in half. You're not spending your time educating people, selling people. Your website's doing all that, they're just excited to get on a call and book with you and potentially work together.  Neill: Yeah, and I would guess, I don't know if you have any data on this or not, but just as you were talking, I was thinking, oh, and probably you have better qualified folks on the call because they know why they booked the call. Kris: Yeah. The gift of story. You \[00:10:00\] can think of it as like a filtration device story. What it does when you tell a very clear and compelling story is it allows you to filter in the clarity and filter out the noise and the clutter. And when you do that, people come to your page. It feels good. It really resonates with those right fit clients and. The strategic byproduct. Number three is that it repels wrong fit clients. They literally will not get on the phone with you because they know very clearly this isn't, this problem isn't resonating with me. I don't, this isn't, this isn't a problem I wanna solve. And so people get a little bit afraid when they hear that. I don't wanna repel anybody, but. When our marketing is clear, we are, it's a benefit to us to repel the wrong fit clients. We're not on the phone with people who aren't ready to invest, who are out of our kind \[00:11:00\] of sweet spot of the type of people we really wanna work with, and the type of clients that energize us and that are thrilled and and thrilled at the opportunity to work with us. Neill: I love all of this so much because. It's the epitome of simplification. The doing less, but being more effective in that. That's one reason why I just, I love what you do so much. I'm, you've just helped so many people. I'm wondering if you can give us some examples. 'cause this sound all like. Beautiful and amazing. But I am wondering if we could get, like, maybe, I don't want you to reveal clients if you can't of course, protect all of that, but just some examples of, okay, this is what a website might look like, but once you have a story, this is what it could look like.  Kris: Yes. Yes, absolutely. So for example, I worked with a client, she was a coach. Her name was, her name's Mickey. And she was amazing. She does incredible work. She helps moms who are divorced, \[00:12:00\] co-parent. With confidence, clarity, and calm. That's how do you navigate that relationship with your ex, have to co-parent with them. How do you do that in a way that doesn't hijack your emotions or Often what our clients more struggle with is they're, they get so triggered and they get so frustrated by the co-parent that it actually. Bleeds into their time with their kids. They're distracted and it's, it's difficult. These are real problems and your children can really sense that energy in you as well. So she does incredible work for her clients. When I initially met with her, she told me, she said, oh, I just pretend like I don't have a website. I just send people, I just send people to my LinkedIn or I'll, I just, I. Pretend I don't have one because it's number one. Like she said, I'm ashamed of it. I don't want people to go there. And number two, it just didn't \[00:13:00\] properly reflect who she was and the powerful work that she did. And so why would you want to send somebody there? It's doesn't represent you well. She had. On her homepage, when you landed on her page, it was a picture of her and she had a headline. Hi, I am Mickey. I'm a certified life coach, and a little bit about herself, and I completely understand why this happens, right? We as coaches or any entrepreneur, any service provider. We're like, okay, I'm in business. I, I need to sign up. I need to get on Wix. Or Squarespace or what, whatever. The builder, which I'm a huge fan of those builders by the way, but they're very easy and they're, they're just simple. So of course you're gonna get on one of those. You're gonna choose a pretty template, and you're just gonna fill in the blanks according to the way that they guide you. The downside of that is you are letting them, you're following their lead. As far as the template that they gave you, and I'm sure it's \[00:14:00\] pretty, but it's not strategic and what I call those types of websites are brochure websites. They're, they look pretty, they're all about you, but they honestly, they sit, they're like a bump on a log and a year goes by with your new website and you reflect back on the year and you go, huh, I got, I might have a. I worked with a couple clients, but they came to me. They did not come to me from my website. They came to me 'cause I met somebody out in the real world or something like that. They're confused. Why isn't this working? I like the website's pretty, I follow the template. But what happens when you have a brochure website instead of an effective strategic website is that the brochure website encourages you to be the hero of your own story. And your website is all about you. And of course it's all about you. It's your website. You're like, of course I need to talk about myself, but. When we really take, when we really implement the \[00:15:00\] strategy behind story, what we learn is that your clients are the hero of your story. They're the central character in your story, and you come into this story, I. About a third of the way in as the guide, you are the Yoda. They are the Luke Skywalker. And what we did with her website was we changed the language instead of, hi, I'm Mickey. I'm a life coach. We changed the headline to read. I. Co-parent with confidence, clarity, and calm, navigate co-parenting with peace, even if your ex doesn't change at all. Really powerful. If I'm a parent in this situation, I land on the website and I'm like, whoa, this is about me. She cares about me more than she cares about herself. I am the hero of this story. She is gonna help me overcome my challenges, and then after those words, we put a nice big button that said, schedule a calm \[00:16:00\] co-parent discovery call. Or it was like book a book, a calm parent strategy call. Something that really told them very clearly, what do we want them to do next? To take that next step as the guide. It's our job to just very clearly tell them what we want them to do next. We followed it with that call to action, and people all of a sudden were like, they had clarity. I know what you do. I know what I know how what you do is gonna make my life better and I know what you want me to do next. Being able to answer that. Being able to have visitors answer those questions within five seconds of being on your website shows them respect. It shows them that you respect their time and it shows them that you've taken the time to get really clear about what you do. I. And immediately they begin to trust you way more than they might another website. And then with the words, instead of having a picture of Mickey looking beautiful, we, which she is, \[00:17:00\] we have a picture with a mom. Holding two kids and she's kissing one of them on the forehead and it's in an outdoor environment. They're connected, they're feeling joyful, and even the visuals are positioning the client as the hero of the story. That's one example. And there are endless. Yeah.  Neill: I, that's such a shift from what it was originally to what the copy was, and that's one of the things that I love about you is you have this superpower ability to pull out the gold nugget from someone. But I see you do this over and over and over again with so many. People and it's amazing. And part of the reason why I think is you talk about this and you've talked about it in, in some of the communities that I have had to win, that we really are in a fishbowl in our businesses is if you ask me what I did, it's so hard for me to \[00:18:00\] articulate. When I do like I will, I like fungal over my words. But you looking in, because I'm in my fishbowl, I can't really see it or articulate it all that well, but you are outside and you're like, oh no, this is what you do. This is the transformation you provide, and you just rattle it on. It's really this, I feel like it's just this superpower. Then I'm sure it's just because of practice over and over again. But I've seen you do it with all kinds of different coaches and all kinds of different businesses. If someone wanted to get started on this. They're like, oh my gosh, I totally want this kind of website. Where would you like point them? What's the first most important thing for them to do?  Kris: I think the simplest way to really implement this for free is to go to my website and download my freebie. It's called How to Write Compelling Copy in five Minutes, and that's, it's a five minute video. It's gonna walk you through the fundamentals or remind you of some of the fundamentals that we even talked about today. And then it's gonna give you a worksheet \[00:19:00\] with just three sections on the worksheet, and it's going to get, I'm gonna prompt you. I'm gonna pull that, those gold nuggets out of you. And so they're gonna get out of your brain and onto this document, and then I'm gonna show you how to refine it. Within about 20 minutes, you can really start to shift the lens at which you. Think about the work you do. Talk about the work you do, and once you change the way, once you change your lens, we'll never talk about your business the same way again.  Neill: Yeah. We'll put in the, show us the link for everybody to grab that. And I think, tell me what you think about this, Chris. I feel like it's a good thing to just keep revisiting because I feel like. Us, we as entrepreneurs, I, I said this to someone the other day, they were talking about, I can't remember what I did last week. And I was like, because your week is like one year. For most people it's just so like fast pace and things are happening so quickly and I feel like we evolve very quickly. So maybe even revisiting this. Kris: Yeah. So relevant. \[00:20:00\] I think whether you're employed, you're an employee, or you are self-employed, we as humans, we're growing and evolving every day, and I think this is the kind of thing that it is a living, breathing thing. What I encourage my clients to do is go through that freebie first. Get that, get all that stuff out of your head and onto paper, get it organized, and then clear away the clutter and have that clear and simple answer. To what do you do and then print it out and put it on the wall by your computer. The reason that people fumble around with that question or just tense or spit out a two word answer or go with a very long answer, either one's not super effective. Yeah, people that know how to answer that question, they're not coming up with it on the fly. They've memorized it. They've metabolized it, and once you say it a dozen \[00:21:00\] times, it flows out very easily. It's not because they are just really quick with their words. They have done the work to get clear, and then they've done the work to actually memorize it. And then once you have it memorized, you can play with it a little bit like depending on the situation. And then maybe six months will go by or a year, and you'll say it again, but you're. Shifted your work a little bit. Mm-hmm. So you'll naturally shift the way that you speak about it, or you'll have shared it with enough people and you realize that you keep getting the same question over and over, the same follow up question. And so you figure out how to integrate that into. What you share, but it absolutely, just as humans change and grow over time, your one-liner and your story that you tell will change over time. When you do this work of creating a story for your business, if you know what you \[00:22:00\] do when you've done it for a handful of years, it's pretty rare that your store, your signature story needs to change very often. Mm-hmm. It really doesn't need to change May, maybe once every few years unless. You're really pivoting your business, but your one liner, which is that two sentence statement. That answer to the question, what? What do you do? That's something that's a little bit more malleable over time.  Neill: To that end, you also have written a book. Yes. I'm so excited about this. I can't wait to read it. So will you mind sharing with us the title and, yes. Flow into the book and all that. Of course, it's  Kris: called from Click to Client and it's the subtitle is How to easily create a Story-driven website that turns visitors into clients. This is a way to essentially go through my process very affordably to work with me right around the 50, $5,500 mark. The book is right around 20 bucks alike for a big \[00:23:00\] discount. I share everything in there. I keep no secrets. I hold your hand and walk you through my entire process, and that's really step one is what I call mining for gold, which is pulling those golden nuggets out from inside of you. Your, your story is not something you invent. It's already inside of you. We just need to clear the clutter and identify what those gold nuggets are, and we polish them up and make them beautiful. And then we apply that to your website and get your website really working for you.  Kris: It's at Red Door designs.com/book. You should be able to actually buy it within the next few weeks, but right now you can get on the wait list,  Neill: but it's been, this goes live for everybody who's listening. We'll have the link in the show notes, but it should be available when you're listening to this to purchase, which is so far, yes. Neill: And then if someone's, that's all great. I \[00:24:00\] love free things and I love low cost things, but honestly, I'd rather just work with crisp. Yeah. Tell me how, or tell our audience how they can work with you.  Kris: I only work with my clients in one way. I work one-on-one I, it's a done for you offer, and this is not another group program or course. What entrepreneurs really need is less on their plate and so. Because we're inside of the bottle, trying to write your own story can be very difficult. What you really need is someone that can come in and give you perspective and look at things with fresh eyes, someone who really understands story to really do that work for you. And so it all begins with me. Digging for gold, mining for gold, and then polishing up those golden nuggets, writing your story for you and the way we ensure that it's really aligned with you and your voice, that we collaborate on a 90 minute collaboration call where \[00:25:00\] we refine the story and I help you really understand everything that I've written. And then we apply that to your website and essentially give you the tools, what I call, I give you what I call the brand copy Bible. Which is all the messaging, all the words that you would need for any area of your business, whether it be social media, video script, website, copy, all of that, all of those components are all inside the brand copy Bible that I custom make for you. I work one-on-one with clients and I only work with two clients at any given time. It's deep work, it's very efficient. It's mind blowing. It's you walk away with so much confidence and clarity, but it's not time intensive on my client's part. It only takes them. The total time investment for them is 2.5 hours. For me and my team, it's much more than that 'cause we're doing that heavy lifting. But if you want to work with me, you can go to my website, red Door \[00:26:00\] stories.com. You can schedule a free call with me. I'd be happy to talk with you. Take a look at your website, understand the story that you're currently telling and give you. Insight and feedback on how to tune your story up, and I'll also walk you through what it would look  Neill: like to work together. We'll put that link in the shoutouts as well. And I have to say, having worked with you for several years now, it really is amazing and. He said It's so powerful. I hate to keep using that word 'cause it feels overused, but it really is when you sit back and you're like, oh my gosh, that is what I do. And there's actually a lot of value you in that it really does inspire confidence and it makes it so much easier to talk to people about what you do. I wanna, first of all, just thank you for myself and for all of the coaches that I know that have worked with you. You have made our marketing so much easier and so much more effective. And I just thank you so much. 'cause it's not like we live in a society right now where \[00:27:00\] coaches are like doctors and we can put up a shingle and someone's just, oh yeah, they're, I'm gonna go get myself a coach. Right. Not that mainstream yet. So we still have to do the heavy lifting of the marketing and you've just made that so much simpler for us. Neill: Yeah. So amazing to have had you here. Thank you for sharing all of that. Everybody go by the book at the very least. And after you read the books. You're probably gonna decide. I just wanna work with you, but that'll give you a start. Perfect. Thanks Chris. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/audiobook ### Title: Audiobook ### Page ID: 7075936 ### Content: #### FROM CLICK TO CLIENT AUDIOBOOK >> GET INSTANT ACCESS ## How to Easily Create a Story-Driven Website that Turns Visitors into Clients #### **Right now, your ideal clients are likely visiting your website...** #### **and quietly clicking away to your competitors. Let's fix that.** #### Attract Ideal Clients #### Learn a proven strategy for a simple website that converts visitors into clients while you sleep #### Simplify Your Marketing #### Create a powerful hub that eliminates endless content creation and works for you 24/7 #### Command Premium Rates #### Turn your expertise into clear, compelling copy that builds trust and justifies higher pricing *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/quantum-leaping-business-feminine-energy-elyse-archer ### Title: Quantum Leaping Your Business with Elyse Archer: How to Sell Better with Feminine Energy ### Page ID: 7345571 ### Content: ## Quantum Leaping Your Business with Elyse Archer: How to Sell Better with Feminine Energy Quantum Leaping Your Business with Elyse Archer: How to Sell Better with Feminine Energy Ever feel like you’re working harder than ever… but still hitting the same income ceiling? ? I just dropped a powerful episode with my former coach Elyse Archer—and as always, she blew my mind. Five years ago, she was the first person who helped me believe that my “impossible” dreams (like living in a stunning condo with floor-to-ceiling windows) weren’t so impossible after all. But here’s what really got me fired up about this conversation: ✨ **The cup metaphor** that reveals why we stay stuck—even while hustling ✨ **How Elyse turned her annual income into monthly income** in 6 weeks ✨ **The feminine energy shift** that made business feel like flow instead of force If you’ve ever thought, *“There has to be an easier way to grow my business,”* this episode is for you. When Elyse reframed sales and discovery calls as a **“sacred transaction”**—not something to dread, but something to *honor.* If you’ve ever said, *“I suck at sales,”* this perspective will change everything. **?** [](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-2-quantum-leaping-your-business-with-elyse-archer/id1787187223?i=1000684552847)[**Listen now**](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-2-quantum-leaping-your-business-with-elyse-archer/id1787187223?i=1000684552847) **to discover how your biggest desires might be green lights—not red flags.** Kris: Welcome to the podcast, Elyse. I am so thrilled to have you here today. It's been a while since we've connected, and I cannot wait to share you and your brilliance with my listeners, so thank you for coming.  Elyse: thank you for having me, Kris. This is so beautiful. Even just getting caught up in the pre-chat and reflecting on like how much has changed and shifted since we initially worked together. I know so many beautiful things in your life and I'm just, I'm excited to be in your energy and be in this conversation. So I know it's going to be really good.  Kris: So let's start out. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do. Elyse: Well, um, my name is Elyse. I am the founder and \[00:01:00\] CEO of She Sells and Superhuman Selling. I am a wife and a partner. My husband is currently in his second year of medical school, so we're kind of on that crazy journey right now. Um, three kids, one of which is on the way. So, um, our oldest is four and a half, and then we got a little guy who's almost two and do with another baby in a couple of months. And yeah, I just, um, I, yeah, I live a full life and I'm really grateful for it. Cause I think for a long time I didn't, and I lived life. That was like what I thought I was supposed to do and, um, kind of checking the boxes, which, you know, we can talk about as we go. But, um, I think the past maybe five years, especially have really been a journey of, um, discovering like. Who I am, what I came here on this planet to do and just trusting that and taking big, bold action and, you know, in pursuit of that. And it's been really wonderful and magical what's manifested. So. Amazing.  Kris: Yes, I've watched you, I've watched you take many big, bold moves just in the last \[00:02:00\] five years, so it's, it's such an inspiration. This really is a full circle moment for me because I'll kind of fill everybody in. So that was. five ish years ago that we initially worked together and you were my coach and you were really the first coach that I had ever had. So it was kind of a new experience for me. And I, I remember like really clicking with you because we have this shared love of Joe Dispenza and I know you've like gotten deeper into his work over the past few years. Um, but there is one thing that came up for me in the last couple of days in anticipating this conversation. And it was one of the first conversations that you and I had. And you were asking some wonderful questions that really nobody had asked me before. And it was a lot about finances and a lot about like what it looked like to live the life that I \[00:03:00\] wanted to live. And at that point in time, I was living in a, in a one bedroom apartment. I was renting and you were like, what it, what do you want? Like, what would really feel good for you? And I'm like, well, I know what it would be. It would be a three bedroom condo with Florida ceiling windows, views of the river, views of the, of the forest. And, but it felt, Honestly, it felt so out of reach. And whenever I thought big like that before in my life, there was always like someone near me, who would, who would basically shoot it down or just be like, no, that's, that's extravagant or that that's too much, And, and I really hadn't ever experienced anything different than that. And so I, I thought big with you and I'll never forget your reaction to my vision of about my home. Okay. \[00:04:00\] Um, what, what is, what does that cost per month to do that? And I told you and you're like, okay. So then, and then we moved on to the next thing. It was like truly like there was no reaction from you at all, which was the biggest thing. Biggest gift that I could have gotten. And it was, it was the first moment that I really thought, wow, like I can do, this is possible. I can do this. And we really just mapped it out. It was very practical. Okay. This is your monthly payment. What does it cost for my two year old to go to daycare? And like, we mapped out some big, big. Bigger expenses monthly. And then we figured out how much I needed to make in order to make that happen. So fast forward a few years later, I'm in that three bedroom condo, Florida ceiling windows, view of the forest, view of the river, and And you were such a big part of that and this, like for me, the way I live, I'm very visual. So \[00:05:00\] my home really matters to me and I have a feeling you're the same way. So I'm just like, I'm forever indebted to you for just that pivotal conversation that we had. And it was one of many. One of many. Oh,  Elyse: wow. Thank you for sharing that. I was thinking about that condo this morning when I was thinking about this conversation and I remember the, um, the video you sent me and there was a place where it was, I think it was like right after the video. You and Judith moved in and I don't know if you all had been doing like a slumber party on the floor. There was something, but like you showed me the view outside near where you all had been sleeping. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Um, just so beautiful to see the vision come to fruition. And I think, um, you know, I, I, I so appreciate and receive what you said. And I'm so honored. Um, just by the opportunity to kind of be along your side during that season in life. And as you were talking to, I was just \[00:06:00\] reflecting on, I think for all of us, It is so important to have someone or someones who can help us hold the vision, like the bigness of the vision, um, and help us realize it's actually quite normal and natural and it's not as big as we necessarily make it or sometimes we make it big or scary or we make ourselves wrong for wanting more. I was having this exact conversation this morning in one of our group coaching calls and, um, Absolutely. Like in my own life, I've had so many of those experiences where you have a desire for more. I want to live in this type of home. I want to travel this way. I want to give this way. And then people around you, whether it's, you know, well intending parents or friends or whoever, who are just trying to keep you safe. And if you're just listening, I'm using air quotes, safe, protected, small, say, Oh, are you sure you want to do that? Are you sure? And what I've really learned. In my life is that you don't want to take advice from someone who doesn't have the results that you want in life. Right. Right. \[00:07:00\] Because you're, they're just going to be able as, as well intended as they may be, they're only going to be able to speak from their level of consciousness. And their level of consciousness is what's gotten them whatever results they have in their life. And so to really like consider the source of any feedback that you're getting and say, well, Is this person who's dampening my vision or who's telling me I can't do it or who's telling me this is too bold or to this or to that? Are they, not only do they have the results that I want, but are they living life the way that I want to live it? Are they free? Are they embodied? Are they Do they love themselves? Right. Do they love life? And so to me, those are some of the things that I look for. And if not, then why am I going to take that perspective or that opinion? Right. So, um, I know it's kind of a tangent off of that, but I just want to say thank you for sharing that and to see you move into the home and into a space that really felt aligned with you and how expansive you are and your energy is. It's important. Our environment matters. Um, A lot coming \[00:08:00\] to you from a home. We just closed it on last week with no furniture in it, not my normal tech setup either. So thank you for bearing with me, but allowing yourself to expand into those spaces and places, whether physical, whether, uh, relational that will support you in your growth, I think are so, so, so important. It's  Kris: so important, and I'm curious, I've got a couple of questions related to this, and then we'll kind of move into your work now and, and what you're passionate about. Um, but before we do, I'm just curious, like, what was that process that you walked me through? I mean, it was so simple, but really, like, in your words, what even was that? Because I. Reflection. It was a long, long ago. I mean, was it that simple? Like what do you want and what does it cost? Or was there more to it? Elyse: It's so funny. So I remember, I remember that call specifically, and I don't think Kris, it was a set process per se, but. Um, what, I'll kind of tell you like how I think about \[00:09:00\] it now and then maybe some of the process will unfold as we talk here. So I'm a big believer in supporting and holding the dreams of others, whatever those are. I truly believe that if something is a soul aligned desire, meaning it lights you up. It feels expansive. Um, whether it's launching a business, whether it's moving into a home, whether it's buying a pair of Louboutins, whether it's giving a big check to charity, there's no like good or bad, there's no judgment on it. We are meant to do it. We are meant to have it. And so, um, for me personally, as a coach, One of my greatest joys is being able to hold that space for others to, um, normalize their desires and to have almost like an, of course, energy with it. So, you know, I'm thinking back to that call and there may, I know oftentimes when I'm working with clients on manifesting something bigger in their lives, there can be an energy of like, Almost like being apologetic about it. Like, Oh, you know, I want this, but I don't know. This is too big. It's too much. It's \[00:10:00\] impractical. It's this, it's that. So there, I don't know, there may have been some of that, that we worked through or not, but, um, I, I think the only limitations are in our mind. Right. And so first it's, it's usually about what limiting beliefs need to be released. And What limiting beliefs are you holding about you that say you can't be, do, or have anything that's a soul aligned desire? And then from there, um, really, now what's interesting, and I'll come back to what I was going to say, but we don't need to know the how for our desires. So it's funny that you and I broke down the money because I think I could tell you were so close to it. It was like you just had to see the numbers and you would realize it wasn't that big of a deal. Sometimes we have dreams or visions where we have no idea the how and we're not at the point yet to be able to break that down. That's fine too, right? We don't need to know the how. We just even know we want something. Um, but I, yeah, but I think with you, it was like helping you realize that it wasn't as big as you were maybe thinking it was. And that's actually part of how we can really expand in our lives, whether it's a financial goal, a business goal, uh, uh, Life \[00:11:00\] goal, like making the big feel small. And so we can chunk it down and kind of normalize it and be like, Oh yeah, why was I making this thing bigger than me? Why was I making it feel so unattainable when actually it is.  Kris: A hundred percent, a hundred percent. So I remember back then you were living in a different city and you were about to move and you were looking on Airbnb for rentals to make this transition, or, or, you know, whatever Redfin or whatever online app you're using. And I remember you sharing with me your own awareness around, like, I have a cap in my mind about what I'm, what I feel comfortable paying per month and. And this process has brought that up. And then, whoa, that's an awareness of a limit that is kind of self imposed, right? It's just like a, uh, kind of a random number that we have like, this is more than that, so I'm not going into that territory. And so tell me about like, now that \[00:12:00\] you've moved into, um, This beautiful home that you're in. I can see all the natural light in the trees. And tell me how you manifested this home in your life.  Elyse: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think part of what you're, um, speaking to there, and I'll kind of weave this in as we talk is something I'm so passionate about, which is consistently expanding our. Set points consistently expanding our thresholds for what we, um, just how we expect to live. And it's, it's not about, it's not about a money grab. You know, there's a big time in my life where I pursued money or material things from a place of lack and, um, like brokenness within myself. And I thought if I can just make X amount of money. If I can just live in such, you know, such and such type of home, then I'll be successful. Then I'll be worthy. Then I'll be secure. Then I'll be this and that, and that's not at all what we're talking about here. So there's a concept, um, that we teach in the community called selling from wholeness \[00:13:00\] versus selling from lack. And so it actually incorporates a lot of the beautiful work that Dispenza does or other leaders in. The science and spirituality movement or new thought. And we weave that into the sales world. But what I, what I have found is, is I've been on a journey of reconnecting with the fullness of who I am and coming to a place of wholeness within me. Um, I do desire better things in many parts of my life, and I do appreciate higher level things in better parts of my life as well. And so, uh, last year we moved. Very, I shouldn't say unexpectedly because we had been manifesting it. So I, my husband and I knew he wanted to get into medical school. Um, he wanted, we were in North Carolina at the time. He wanted to go to UNE, which is up in Maine. That's where he's from originally. I'm a Southern girl. I was like, Um, I don't know. I really love you. Okay. If you want to do it, we'll do it. Um, but then he got, he got wait listed and we didn't honestly think it \[00:14:00\] was going to happen. And I know there's like, I probably broke 20 of my own rules in that process of like holding the vision and holding the energy, but yeah. We didn't think it was going to happen. We had a new baby. Um, we had sold our home and everything years ago and we'd been renting for a while and like just kind of living, moving around on the road. The place that we'd been living in the rent was up and we had to decide to like, either do we just like move to Maine in faith before he's expected or do we, or before he's accepted, or do we move to another place in North Carolina? Um, I was not in faith in that moment. And so we moved to a new Condo in North Carolina. And three weeks later, he got the call that he'd been taken off the wait list and he had 24 hours, 48 hours to get up to Maine. And so he left in like a whirlwind. Um, I was left behind with two kids, two little kids, one, a baby and one, uh, he three at that time. And I'm kind of like, Oh, wow, we have life has just changed dramatically. So long story short, um, we actually bought another home up here site unseen because we've \[00:15:00\] been moving and on the road a lot for the past few years, which is fine when you don't have kids. But when you have kids, at least for me at a certain point, you're like, I need a landing pad. I need a place to stay. Um, so we've lived, yes, we've lived in that home as a family together for about a year and a half now, which is beautiful. Um, but then this past summer we found out we were pregnant. Again, and I just I've learned to really trust my knowing and my knowing was we are moving into the home we were in was kind of like a landing pad. We knew we wanted it to be a rental long term. We are moving into a home that feels much more aligned. I had a feeling it would be in January. I didn't know why I was just like, it's going to be in January. Um, and one of the things that I've learned in our lives is like, when we, when you make a decision, right, the energy of decision is to cut off all other options. Like it is done. It's happening. I didn't know where the money was going to come from for it. Hadn't really been planning it intentionally, but I was like, no, it's happening. So, um, One of the things you can do when you're looking to call in something where \[00:16:00\] you don't know the how it's just take, what's the next step I can take. So I reached out to our realtor who had sold us the home the year before. It was like. You're going to think I'm nuts, but we're ready for another home. Uh, started touring, used my intuition. There was nothing that was like perfectly clicking. Um, but then we found this place that we closed on last week, um, right before Thanksgiving of this year. And I remember online stalking it and I was like, Oh, this is, it was, you know, how you have the knowing and you're like, yes, this is it. Um, and sure enough, the sales came in, in my business, like right before that timeframe to get us everything we needed to be able to, um, purchase the home. And so in that expansion, like it, it has been stretchy. It has been uncomfortable. It's definitely more than I've ever laid out in the past for a piece of property, um, or probably for anything, but. What's been really beautiful about it is we teach a lot about like abundance and the energy of \[00:17:00\] money in our programs and in our community. Um, when you learn how money Works on a spiritual level, on an energetic level. And you understand that to me, prosperity and abundance is all of my needs met at every point in space and time. And so in the present moment, just really being in that energy of all of my needs are met and trust and faith that, um, what is needed gets to flow in, in the perfect timing, right. For whatever that next step is going to be. It's been a pretty easy. So, um, I'll say one other thing and I'll turn it back over to you. I think part of what's powerful about when you do actually like move into the new home or you drive the new car that was on your vision board for a long time, or you wake up and you look at your business and you're like, Oh my gosh, this is it. Like I, I, this was a dream, a vision for so long. And now it's here is. It's more about who you've become in the process than about the actual manifestation of the thing itself. And I noticed, even as we were \[00:18:00\] starting to move stuff into this house last week, there was a part of me, like the small part of me who was still like, Oh, is this okay? Like, Ooh, is this like worried about approval? Worried about what, you Parents would say or this or that. And so I texted, um, one of my coaches cause I was like, okay, I'm noticing this is coming up. And so we did some identity work around just like aligning with no, this is natural and normal. And of course, and now it feels more natural and normal. And of course, but we do, when we're in those up level periods, I believe and I say like your results will never supersede your identity. So it is about tuning into who's the identity and the self concept of the person who has whatever you're going for right now, the seven figure business, the home, the beautiful family life. Right. And then working on manifesting that. Um, And the results will, will naturally follow as well. So please take that wherever you want. I feel like I went a lot of different places with  Kris: that. You, you touched on something really beautiful, which is we don't really need to figure out the how we need to \[00:19:00\] envision what we want and then let the universe or whatever, you know, Higher power you believe in to do all the detail work, like to make it happen. Um, tell us about, I want to hear, you know, your wisdom around male, female energy, I've heard you talk about. A cup metaphor and feminine energy. I want to hear all about that because it's very much related to not having to figure out the how.  Elyse: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love your questions. They're so fun. Um, yes. So I was a woman who lived in. masculine energy predominantly most of my life and had no idea that that's what I was doing. And the result of that was that I was staying stuck financially. Um, I felt like I was grinding and working really hard for everything that I had. I felt stressed out. I felt depleted. Um, everything just felt \[00:20:00\] hard and heavy. And this was probably closer to 10 years ago when I started working with mentors who taught feminine energy. And at first I was like, What is this? This is strange. I don't see how this is going to help me grow my business. Um, but what I learned was so powerful, which is we all have both types of energy. So to the cup analogy, like you asked about, so you can kind of think about it like this cup that I'm holding up. If you're listening, I'm just holding up a cup right now. The cup itself is like masculine energy. This is structure. It's logical. It's linear. Masculine energy is about the end destination. It's me. This is not so much about the cup, but this is masculine energy. Um, it is me focused. It's it's action oriented. Nothing wrong with that, right? We need that in our lives and in our businesses. However, if I had this cup, but I didn't have anything to drink in it, the feminine is the water that's within the cup. Um, Feminine is life giving, right? \[00:21:00\] Feminine is vision. Feminine is replenishing. Feminine is about quantum leaping, which we can speak to more if you want. Um, for so long in my life and what I see for a lot of the members of our community too is I was like a cup with no water inside of it and I was trying to drink and nothing was coming out and I was just working harder and so we all have both energies regardless of gender and what Again, what I see happen often with members of our community is they come and usually they're more in their masculine, not always, but usually. And they're like, why do I feel like I'm hitting a cap on my results? Why do I feel like everything feels hard or heavy? Why do I feel like I've got to grind? And oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes these are also women who may have a family, may have kids, or may just have other desires for a fuller, more expansive life. And it's like, there's gotta be another way. I've got to be another way. So when they learn to incorporate the feminine, which is about fun and play and vision and beauty and \[00:22:00\] sensory experiences and enjoyment, they actually quantum leap and they end up Making way more money, working less. A lot of them won't even tell their, if they're in corporate, they won't tell their bosses or their managers what they're doing. Cause they don't know, they don't want their, uh, their leadership to know how many fewer hours they're working are expected to be getting such great results. And then of course, if they're an entrepreneur, you know, they answer to themselves. Um, but so we, we all have both. And I think that. It's finding that alignment and that blend of usually for us as women, like when we can be more in our feminine and use the masculine to support, then we're really in our power spot. So that means whatever your process is to connect with spirit, connect with your higher self in the morning, connect to vision, get into the feeling state of what you want, and then from there, there will be. I call them divine downloads, but like actions to take reach out to this person, do this thing. So we're still taking action and it can be stretchy and uncomfortable action. Um, but it doesn't feel like grind or hustle action. So you will \[00:23:00\] not quantum leap from pure masculine energy. You can't, it's too logical. Masculine energy is if I want to make, we did a little bit of masculine energy in your house planning, actually, as you're talking about, it's like, you know, if I want to make, a million dollars this year. I've got to sell this many clients. So I've got to put out this many proposals, do this many things. And that is one way to achieve goals. That's how most people are taught to achieve goals. Um, but the feminine is about go all the way to the end vision achieved, like see it, feel it, see yourself in the house, see yourself celebrating your first seven figure years, see your, and like feel it. Feel the feelings and then from there be non attached to the how or the when of it, but pay attention to the downloads. That come, um, and I was able to personally quantilate my income using that as a, um, as a tool and 10 X and six weeks after being stuck for 10 years, and it was feminine. It was, it was primarily feminine energy. So it's so powerful when we learn how to align both and integrate \[00:24:00\] both. And then live in that blend. So,  Kris: yeah, you have, you've mentioned the quantum leap experience experience. Is that what you call it? The quantum leap experience. And my listeners are client based business owners. And I'm curious, like how, what is, what is it number one? Elyse: Absolutely. Well, to me, a quantum leap is doing something that many people would say is not possible or is in a shorter amount of time than many people would say is possible. So in my own life, I was stuck at the same income level for 10 years, grinding, hustling, working incredibly hard, unable to break past a certain threshold and a lot of anxiety and fear and worry about money and bills and all of that. And. My, my quantum leap was going from that to literally turning my annual income into my monthly income in six weeks. And most people, even \[00:25:00\] when it happened, I say it happened to me, it didn't actually happen to me. I know that I manifested it. Um, but when it happened, it felt so fast. I was almost in awe of like, wait. You're telling me 10 years I've been struggling and it's felt really hard. And then I learned a couple of core things, not learn, but like, I embody a couple of core things around feminine energy and wealth, energetics and ease and all of that, and it's going to jump like that. And so for a business owner, cause we've got a, I love the group. You start, we've got a lot of that group in our community too. I would think about, um, If there were no consequences or limitations and you could have it any way you wanted in your business. So think about like what size is your business? How many clients are you serving? What's your revenue like? What's your office like if you have one? What's your team like? And maybe it's a goal that feels like a 10 year goal, right? And maybe your mind is saying, Oh, there's no way that could happen before five or 10 \[00:26:00\] years. What would it be like if that happened this year? Right. What would it be like if that were your reality in six months? Right. And start playing with that. That's a quantum leap. That's something where it's almost like we're skipping levels. And here's the thing in life and in business, we don't get what we want. We get what we are, right? So the key to it is you have to look at for that goal, who would you need to be? Um, and then you've got to stay unattached to the timeline. So there are things where it's like, there's a natural process that needs to happen. Um, but what I have found is that I think we prolong our results and we make things take longer than they need to often, not always, but often because we're Of limiting beliefs because we're in resistance to something because we don't feel worthy of something. And so if you \[00:27:00\] go to the end result of what you'd love to be experiencing in your business and with your clients, and then really call that in and say, all right, well, if I was going to live that now in my mind, how would that feel? And who would I be? And how would I show up and how would I operate? Um, how would I dress? How would I speak? And you start practicing being that person. You can collapse the timeline. Of something that you think is going to take a long time and it's happening left and right in our community and I love those moments I've learned to also really love the process in the in between as well because that's the part where you're becoming, um, but that's, that's a quantum leap and that's really, really fun. Kris: Tell us a story about something wonderful that's happened for someone in your community.  Elyse: Yeah, there's so many. Um, I will share. There's a beautiful woman in our community and she is in corporate sales and she and I connected last April and she had a, um, \[00:28:00\] A daughter who was just a couple months old at that time and was doing a lot of work according to, I call it like the old way of doing business where it's like the hustle, the grind, competition, scarcity, force, like that's just what we've been taught to do. So she was in that mode with, within her business and she knew she wanted something different. Um, especially as her daughter, who was just a couple months old at the time, but especially as she grew. And she knew she wanted more time with her. She knew that what she was doing wasn't really sustainable. So she came in and embodied this material and really soaked it up and started tapping into more feminine energy, started tapping into the power of visualization and identity and self concept work. And Oh my gosh, I don't want to get the number wrong, but she, cause she's had so many manifestations since she came in, but she five Xed in five months. what she was doing. Um, she's become one of the top in the company. She's \[00:29:00\] working way less hours. Um, again, she may or may not be telling her boss that. So I'm like, not going to give any identifying information and, um, and what's so fun about this too. So she's, there's, yeah, there's, there's a lot more to it, but I'll, I'll just keep it really high level for now. Um, but she also wanted to move into her dream home last year. We've got so many members manifesting dream homes in our community and she and I actually Grow on the same day for our new homes. And she just texted me yesterday, pictures of them closing on the home. And it's like her and her husband and their daughter, uh, who's a little over one now, just, you know, with the Soul sign and, and welcome home sign. And, uh, she's just beaming and it's really beautiful and she's continuing to ascend and think greater. And, and what I also know is powerful is. She is, she knows that she's going to model something different for her daughter and any other kids they have down the road than she saw growing up. And so I think the impact of this work, it's like, it doesn't just end with us. It gets passed \[00:30:00\] on to our kids and future grandkids and generations beyond that we don't even know of yet. Kris: Let's talk a little bit about sales because when it comes to sales, you are truly masterful and you've helped so many people look and think about sales in a different way. I will tell you, my clients dread sales. I got an email, I got an email from a client last week and when I work with people, we really work on crafting their story and really. Uh, enabling them to have the words to communicate what they do in a more compelling way. And I got this email and he said, the subject was, well, I still suck at sales. And so we delved into that a little bit, \[00:31:00\] but, um, I'm curious, like that is not. uncommon, right? Like people cringe, they don't want to feel salesy there. When you're self employed, you really are leaning into the work that you want to do and the reason that you're here on this planet. And, and my clients, they love the work they do. They love helping their their clients. But The selling part, they all wish that they could just remove that from, from kind of the pie of being self employed. So tell us, tell us what you know about selling. And I also want to hear about this concept that you have around servant leadership.  Elyse: Hmm. Okay. Absolutely. Um, it's so funny that you talk about that email you got, cause that's probably very common for people to feel that way. I love sales. I really do. And I'll share how I think about it. Um, I didn't always, even though I was someone who had a career in sales, I, I hated it. I didn't like it. And it was because of a lot of the ways that I was thinking about it. \[00:32:00\] So I used to make sales about me. Um, I used to feel less than my clients or my prospects. I used to feel like I was begging. I used to feel like I had to like hard close people and push and all of that. Yeah. And anyone with a conscience, if they think that's what sales is, they're going to feel really uncomfortable and like, they don't want to sell. Right. So I think what, um, has really shifted for me over the years, I see sales as like a very spiritual thing now, which if everyone just bear with me on this train of thought, um, and it doesn't matter what you're selling. It can be you're selling, uh, You know, you're, you're selling legal services to a client, you're selling design, copy services, coaching services, whatever it is. But, um, I see it as a very like sacred transaction where someone who is going to really benefit from what it is that you have to offer is being brought into your energy. Um, and it's just an energy exchange. That's it. It's just an energy exchange. And for you as the service provider. It is \[00:33:00\] important that you are compensated for what you're doing and that you're compensated graciously. And we can all tell when our prices are too low or no longer aligned because it's like, you know, you sign a client, you're like, Oh, I don't really feel like doing this. This feels heavy. This I'm not lit up about it. So I think a big piece of healing relationship with sales is actually healing your relationship with money. And so that's part of why we do a lot of wealth and money energetics work with our clients in our community, because there's so there it's all intertwined. It's all intertwined. Um, so whatever your revenue goal is, whatever your financial goal is for your business, like there's a frequency to that, right? But you have to be available to receive it. Your business is a channel that you can receive that compensation for that energy for that money for in exchange for service provided. And so to me, it's actually a really beautiful exchange where, um, I get, I receive the flow of energy that comes in from clients when they're paying me. And simultaneously, \[00:34:00\] I know that I get to bless their lives through the work that I'm doing and everyone listening, you're doing that for your clients and whatever capacity you serve. Right. And so I think when we can, um, I think a lot of times we get things twisted with sales. If we are really attached to the outcome, that's a big one, right? Where it's like, I need this client. I need this money, or we make it mean something about us if they say no. And to me, that's actually where a lot of like my own spiritual practice has helped tremendously. I can't really separate one from the other and talk about it with honesty. Um, so just really anchoring into clients are not source. Right? Source is source, God is source, the universe is source, whatever your language is around that. And knowing that if you are doing the work, you know, you've got a goal. Let's say your goal is 10k months or 50k months or 100k months or beyond, but you're focusing on embodying that. You're focusing on being that version of you. You're focusing on, um, playing with \[00:35:00\] who am I at that level? And you feel aligned to it, right? You're doing the work to feel aligned to it. Yeah. And a client says no, or a client ghosts, or someone, like, you know it's happening either way. You know it doesn't matter whether it happens through that person or through someone else. You can sit back in a sales conversation and really listen, and it should be a mutual evaluation of not only am I the right service provider for this client, but are they, like, do I want to, Serve them right. It should be mutual. Um, so that lean back energy, I had a mentor call it once that lean back energy I think is so important. And when you lean back, people actually lean in as well. Um, so I think that if anyone is listening to this and you don't really believe in what you're, you know, as an entrepreneur, you know, Um, if you don't believe in what you're selling, usually it's more, you don't believe in you. Yeah. So there's some beautiful work you get to do around really owning who you are, um, owning the power of what you provide. If you know, if you can look at things like, how could I make this the most beautiful service ever? The most powerful service ever? Like, what would I want to buy? \[00:36:00\] What would get me lit up about this? And you can play with stuff like that. But then, um, from there. You know, create the belief that your ideal clients will do whatever it takes to be in your energy, to work with you, to play at your level and hold that energy when you're in sales conversations and sales calls, non attached. You will make way more sales. Um, and it, but it'll feel easier. So I think just really cultivating the belief of like, if I was someone who loved sales, what would that feel like? What would that be like? What would I need to believe about sales for it to feel easy, for it to feel good, for it to feel sacred, right? What would that need to look and feel like? Kris: Yes. I try and remind my clients that really we're selling the transformation. So it's kind of meta with what we're talking about here. As a business owner, who do you want to become? Who do you want to be? And what does that look like? But we're actually guiding our clients to also become somebody different. And we're holding their hands into that process. And it's so \[00:37:00\] valuable. We're solving really important problems and it's fundamentally about helping them transform, which is a. different way of coming to the table with with your services. I also love this idea and I share this a lot with my clients that when somebody pays you money and an amount that you really feel lit up about and excited to serve them, They show up differently because they're invested on a completely different level, right? And so they're it changes the dynamic that the dynamic and they're more likely to get that end result Because they've actually invested their resources with you  Elyse: Yes, it's so true. It's so, so true. So, you know, not charging your worth, not allowing people to pay you. It is actually disservice to them. It's such a great point you brought up. And I think about even in it. In my first real quantum leap experience of \[00:38:00\] 10x thing in six weeks, I had just invested, um, it was 50, 000 for six months, but it was an annualized, you know, 100 K for the year for coaching. And that to me at that time was astronomical and I had to stretch so much to do it. But the beautiful thing was in the process it was, I was like, Oh no, we're not playing. Like, here we go. Let's go. So when you. When your clients, um, get to stretch to be in your energy, right. When they get to stretch to work with you, they will, to your point, absolutely take it more seriously. They will get so much transformation, even in just that exchange of money. Elyse: then it sets the whole thing up for so much more success. Truly.  Kris: Right. Truly. I mean, it's such a beautiful gift for both people.  Kris: So tell me, um, like as a business owner, what is something that you know now that you wish you had known five years ago?  Elyse: Uh, you know, I was thinking about that, um, this \[00:39:00\] morning. I love how in tune we are. So good. I was thinking this was probably more me more four years ago. So we launched the brand and the business four years ago. And I was just doing a little bit of reflecting as I was like walking into the house today and getting stuff set up of I am. So it was more like I'm proud of my younger self, but it was also like, I'm so glad that I kept going when things felt hard, uh, just kind of looking at, and it's certainly, there's still plenty of challenges that pop up or ways I get to grow, um, for where we are now. And I know that'll continue to be as long as I'm on this planet, but, There were multiple periods early on, um, in the life cycle of like of this business and my career here where I would, I just remember being like, there's so much going out in faith. There's so much trusting myself. There was so much, um, Continuing to show up, even if it looked like things weren't working, even if it looked \[00:40:00\] like things weren't going to come together, I wasn't going to hit the number, the goal, or be able to pay the bill sometimes even. And, um, I was just looking back on that. I was like, I'm so glad I kept going. I'm so glad I kept showing up. I'm so glad I kept trusting myself and taking action in faith just to know, like, It always works out. It always works out. And sometimes it works out in different ways than we're initially anticipating, but it always works out. And so I think just, I think it would really be just an anchoring into the message that I, Continue to teach and that has really been the core foundation of she sells from the start, which is trust yourself. Like really, we have to trust ourselves. Just like you trusted yourself with the home and you were like, yes, we're doing it. I'm trusting my desire. Let's go. Um, we have to learn to tune in and trust our own knowing I, I believe. And I say that your desires are green \[00:41:00\] lights. So you've got a desire this year to launch a new division within your company. Follow that. You've got a desire to bring on a certain team member to help support you and what you're doing. Follow that. You've got a desire to go to this cool event coming up and you're like, Oh, making yourself wrong for the money or the travel or the time or whatever. Follow it, follow it, follow it, follow it. Your desires are green lights. That is what I would say.  Kris: That's beautiful. And, and I would add, really protect those desires because they are sacred. So share them with people that, that are also going to really support that desire and not make you wrong for it or make it feel too big.  Elyse: Yeah. So important. So, so, so important. Absolutely. Yeah. Love it.  Kris: Okay. Well, as we wrap up today, where can people find you and what's the, you know, tell us a little bit about your program and where people can find you. Elyse: Thank you so much. Yeah, gosh, this has been beautiful. I've loved answering every single question you asked. Um, \[00:42:00\] so, like I said, our communities and our programs are called She Sells and Superhuman Selling. Uh, we serve a lot of women in our community, which has been really beautiful. That was the inspiration and the backbone, um, of what the company was built on. About four years ago, I just saw a need for, um, Um, sales and business training for women, particularly women entrepreneurs, um, female sales professionals. And one thing I will say is, and you probably picked up on it in this conversation. I also say sales is the Trojan horse. So we're going to pull you in with some really good, really cool sales training and help you grow your sales. And. The way you actually grow your sales in Quantum Leap is a lot of what we talked about today. So we teach a method called the four quadrants of quantum sales growth, which is all about quantum leaping your sales, your income, and your life. We, um, we also have a beautiful men's mastermind within the community that we've launched. We had so many men who were, you know, listening to the podcast or who were, um, watching my social, who were like, when are you going to launch who you sell? So that's actually part of superhuman \[00:43:00\] selling, which is another, uh, division. And we're growing and building that up this year into more of like a membership and an app, which I'm excited for as well. Um, But yeah, here we've got beautiful programs designed to help everyone from hitting anywhere from their first six figures to multi six to seven figures, all based on both tactical strategy and a lot of the inner work we've talked about. Um, elisarcher. com slash four quadrants. You can get a beautiful free training that goes deeper into what we talked about today. Um, or elisarcher. com slash free call. To get connected with a member of my team for a, um, for a consult and just let us know you came in from Kris because I love you and adore you. And, uh, we want to really honor every member of your community as well. So yeah, that's, that's what we do. We love to help people transform. Kris: I will include all of your links in the show notes. So if you're on the go while you're listening to this, just go to the show notes and connect with Elyse. She is the real deal. She has completely transformed my life. And it's such an honor to have you \[00:44:00\] here today. It's such a joy to get to see you. Elyse: Thank you. I love you. I appreciate this so much. This is so fun. Thank you, Kris. Thank you.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-to-thrive-as-coach-tough-times-donald-miller ### Title: How Coaches Can Thrive in Tough Times With Donald Miller ### Page ID: 7385537 ### Content: ## How Coaches Can Thrive in Tough Times With Donald Miller How Coaches Can Thrive in Tough Times With Donald Miller Ever wonder how some coaches stay fully booked—even when the economy dips? While others are reducing rates and chasing prospects, these coaches consistently land premium clients who are willing to pay in full. I've just released a new episode of *'From Click to Client'* with my mentor, Donald Miller (yes, the StoryBrand guy). He shares the strategy that helped him grow by 30% during a crisis. The same year, he was projected to lose 85% of his revenue. They just get laser-focused on solving one urgent problem. If you can name that problem—and position yourself as the solution—you become the life raft they’re looking for. Donald calls it the **“life raft strategy”**—and I can’t wait to tell you all about it. ? ✅ The backstory move that turns “boring” into brilliant ✅ How to position your offer so price stops being the issue ? Donald and I are collaborating on a book for coaches who want to apply StoryBrand to grow their business! This episode is a sneak peek into the mindset, messaging, and strategies we’re incorporating into the book. If you’re tired of being overlooked, this conversation will show you how to own your value and get dream clients to say yes. Kris (2): \[00:00:00\] I am thrilled to be talking today with Donald Miller, author of Building a StoryBrand and Coach Builder. Donald has been, he has made a huge impact on my life in. So many ways that he probably doesn't even realize. And it's been such a gift to have you, Donald, as my mentor and my friend. And today we are gonna talk about how to help coaches and consultants thrive in today's market. Kris (2): So, Don, tell us a little bit about yourself. Donald Miller: Well, I, I'm. I'm a husband and a dad, and, uh, that's priority for me. And then I have the, uh, the honor of, of owning a couple businesses. They kind of operate together, so it feels like one business, but one is StoryBrand, where we help businesses clarify their message. In order to do that, I certified a bunch of coaches. To do that. So I built another business called Coach Builder, which helps coaches build their business and provides a lot of tools for them. And we expanded \[00:01:00\] beyond just messaging coaches into small business coaches, life coaches, executive coaches, things like that. So I, I sort of shepherd this big coaching community. And then, uh, in my free time, not my free time, but my, my professional coaching career. Has about three clients a year, and I help them create messaging campaigns and execute those messaging campaigns. So I'm not just somebody who helps coaches. I'm actually a coach myself. Kris (2): Yeah, yeah. You get it. You get it on all the levels. Kris (2): Um. Now you're very much, you have like, you're wired as an entrepreneur and a creative. Yeah. And I'm curious, like looking back, where did that begin? Like how old were you? How little were you when you, you when you realized this about yourself? Donald Miller: Well, when I was. Uh, probably, uh, in high school, I just shortly right in high school, leaving high school, I started to write and I, I made a habit of writing. Uh, I started writing poetry and then began writing more long form, and I went on a road trip to Oregon from Houston where I \[00:02:00\] grew up. When I was 21, we ran outta money in Portland. We were trying to get to Alaska, actually. Donald Miller: And we ran outta money in Portland. So we stayed there for a little bit and I, I ended up being there for 20 years, but soon after I got to Portland, I got a job at a publishing company just in the warehouse. Donald Miller: so I, you know, my, my hobby of writing, my desire to be a writer, I got to see sort of firsthand what writers do, how they get published, how they promote books, how they make books. And then I became president of that company within about four years. So I was a very young, I was probably 27 president of this company, and we became the fastest growing company in our, in our industry. And so I, I had a knack for business early on, but then I started writing my own book at, at night about that road trip. It was in a Volkswagen van. So I wrote this book about a road trip and it was published. I, I got it published 'cause I knew some people in publishing obviously. And um, and then I wrote another book that ended up on the New York Times for almost a year, and that then I just took all my entrepreneurial stuff and kind of put it away and \[00:03:00\] did book readings and spoke and went around and talked about my book and the royalties were enough to live off of. And then, um, uh, we went to make a movie about that specific book about eight, nine years later, and I took all the money I had and invested it in that movie, and the movie failed. And so I lost everything. That was the moment that I became an entrepreneur, yes, outta necessity to try to claw back everything I had just lost in a really terrible decision. Uh, I say it was a terrible decision. It was actually wonderful because making the movie, uh, I met some folks who are still very, very close friends and. You know, it wasn't that much money that I lost. It was all of my money. But, uh, but then started to figure out, wait, I gotta somehow get everything I lost back because we grew up really poor and I, I had a fear that I was gonna be really poor. So I started a business and then remembered how much I liked growing a business, and that became StoryBrand \[00:04:00\] Consulting and certifying coaches, and then we kind of moved on from there. So that, that's a little bit of, of how I got to be doing this. Kris (2): So you started with StoryBrand and you traveled around, did StoryBrand workshops? Yes. Getting proof of concept of the book then? Yeah, before I wrote the Donald Miller: book, we probably did 20 or 30 of those workshops, which really helped. It helped to work it out and lecturing to figure out what the actual framework should be. It was, it was definitely tested. Kris (2): I heard you mentioned at one point that you were just kind of surprised at how well it worked, which makes me Donald Miller: laugh. Yeah, like, well, we, we, we built the framework 'cause I had a little conference going and we used it to create a messaging campaign for our conference. And the conference more than doubled. I mean, it, it, uh, I mean there were 350 people. We ended up with 2,400 people. So whatever that is. Uh, you know, coming to this conference and we didn't spend any money on advertising. We just talked about it differently. We invited attendees into a story in which they solved a problem by attending \[00:05:00\] this conference, which was the essence of the framework. Donald Miller: um, and so I, I knew it worked for me, but, you know, I wasn't quite sure that it would work for anybody else. So I, I lightly put out feelers that I've got this framework and can help you clarify a message. And I, Kris, the first call was Proctor and Gamble. I. We met with them when they were in the middle of their Queen Latifah campaign. And I remember just thinking I'm in a room with some of the smartest marketing people in the world. I've never done marketing. I've, I wrote a, I, I didn't even write a book about messaging. I, this was before the book, but I'd done some workshops. And I just remember sitting there rather cocky and a and, and, uh, arrogantly sharing my opinion about what Queen, queen Latifah should be doing. I remember we were like sort of having an outof body experience just going, what are you doing? What, what do you know anything? What do you shut? Stop talking. But I did, I had very strong opinions and, um. They liked those opinions. And then Ford Lincoln called after that. Those were literally the first two. Oh wow. Uh, Ford never \[00:06:00\] paid us anything. They, they sought our opinion on things, which, which I think they probably do with a lot of people 'cause they're smart. Uh, and uh, and then that was, you know, we were off to the races at that point. Kris (2): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think when I got exposed to the framework. You had your podcast, but the book wasn't out yet and I, it resonated with me. On such a deep level that I knew I had to learn more and like become more masterful at the framework. And of course, I applied it to my own business to learn and to fit, try it out, and to play with it a little bit and then never looked back like it. It started overnight. People started coming to my website and traveling to Portland. I had two people, like the month after I implemented the framework. Two potential clients. One took a train and one road trip to Portland to meet with me, to hire me. Wow. And I was like, whoa, this is magic. And that was amazing. Of course. But. What's been more fun for me is really watching it time and time and time \[00:07:00\] again, work for my clients. It's so beautiful. It, it's, it's, everybody should be doing it and I'm so grateful that, that it's become kind of common knowledge within the entrepreneurial groups. Um. Which is really great. So you, StoryBrand like, got a lot of traction, got a lot of sales, and that really built the foundation of your business and, and since then things have evolved. Like now you've, you really engaged in Coach Builder and tell us what's, what's going on. Like, how has this evolved and where are you heading? Donald Miller: Well, I, I love, I discovered that the, the two things that I love. When I say love, what I, what I really mean is I can talk about them and have conversations about them without getting drained. I mean, they just, it just gives me energy. I'm something of an introvert, so I. Probably a little bit of social anxiety, but the, you know, interacting with folks and making small talk is, is really, really exhausting to me. It's very, very difficult unless we're talking about messaging \[00:08:00\] and, and, and unless we're talking about how to grow a business. And so I just love those topics and I love learning more and learning from what other people have done. So, uh, you know, we've helped tens of thousands of small businesses. But as a coach, when I started helping coaches build their coaching business, I understood all the nuances much better. And I, uh, it, I felt like I was helping myself, uh, by helping them. And so creating a community of coaches, and we're nearly a thousand strong now, creating a community of coaches who are all trying to help clients. Clarify their message or grow their business or come up with a life plan or mm-hmm. You know, identify core values and mission statement, things like that. Um, that, that feels very close to home to me. And those are the businesses that I care the most about. Uh, and so now I kind of feel like I have this, this family of coaches who've come together and sort of thrown our fortunes in with each other. And, uh, so I think where it's going, you know, we have about a thousand coaches. We wanna, a pass through goal will be about 2,500, \[00:09:00\] but I'd love to see a day when we have 25,000 coaches and in all, all sorts of coaches, you know, um. People who are selling their wisdom and helping others succeed, I think is a, it's a lifestyle. I understand. It's a business that I understand. Uh, and I think I have something to, to offer in that space. Uh, often when our coaches come into the community, they, they're attracted to my books or to me, and then they discover the value of each other. And so for me to also facilitate a community is really exciting as well. I. Kris (2): Mm. So tell me, what's the biggest mistake that coaches and consultants make? Donald Miller: They don't own a problem. It's the same with every small business. Um, you know, if you just say I'm a coach, it's very hard for me to figure out how, how or, or not have a, why I should hire you. Uh, but the, the, the thing that makes people want to spend their money, whether it's on. You know, an item at Walgreens or a coach relationship is that they're trying to solve a problem. And so when you \[00:10:00\] identify the problem that you solve as a coach, your business starts to uptick. It's, that's, that is difficult for a lot of coaches because they, they actually do solve a lot of problems. The problem with that is you can't be known for solving a lot of problems. You can really only be known for solving one. Now, once you start solving that problem, you can unpack 'cause you're in relationship now because you can unpack other problems that you solve and, and you can get into other things. But, um, I think that's the number one problem that every coach really sort of needs a niche market. There's a guy, we just, his name is Dan Go, and we just talked about him on a podcast episode, uh, on why he's been successful. He's, he's moderately successful, has about two and a half million Instagram followers, a big YouTube channel. He's a physical trainer slash nutritionist kind of personality, but he only works with entrepreneurs. And I just thought that's. Fascinating. 'cause an entrepreneur's body doesn't work any differently than anybody else's body, but because he niched down, he was able to build a brand much, much faster, Donald Miller: you know, he's able to say things like, an entrepreneur's life is unique. It's different, it's harder to stay fit, it's harder to eat right because of the schedule. Therefore, I'm only going to give advice to these people. So you really want one of two things, if not two of two things. What is the main problem I solve for Dan? It's nutrition and being fit. Uh, and then who, who's demographic, what demographic do I wanna own? And he, he just chose entrepreneurs. I honestly think if he offered fitness advice, he, he would have so much competition that we probably wouldn't know who he is. Uh, but because he picked a narrow niche market, he can grow. And the beautiful thing about that is he can expand out of that market. At any time, you know, now that he's got two and a half million followers, he can launch a book, he can launch a product and he can expand out of that. I think Dr. Becky is a good example of a thought leader who has built an incredible platform. She's, she's my go-to. I. Parenting coach. I follow her on Instagram. It is amazing how I'll deal with something with my 4-year-old. You know, she's throwing tantrums for the first time and I'm like, wait, this is different. And then Dr. \[00:12:00\] Becky will show up on my Instagram and say, is your 4-year-old throwing tantrums for the first time? She might as well say my name. You know, she is my guru. And I'm, I talked to her, I'm like, yes she is. What do I do? Dr. Becky help me. You know, she owns parenting. She is a psychologist. She could give great marriage advice. She could great, great leadership advice, but she's smart enough not to do that. So I think for every coach you wanna figure out, you know, for me it's messaging. As much as I love helping people build their coaching business, I'm probably never in my life gonna get out of the messaging lane. And the only clients that I personally take are clients who need. Messaging campaigns, they need help and knowing how to say it and then how to disseminate that, that, those soundbites. So I, I own that and, uh, there's some people competing with me out there, but I get to own that. And, and so for me it was very, it was very strategic to say, Hey, Don Miller's gonna own messaging and he's gonna own, if you have a confusing messaging, he's gonna help you say it. Uh, and you know, I, I. Owning that mental real estate in the body \[00:13:00\] politic. I think that is what every coach needs to sit and think about. Spend some time saying, okay, what problem do I wanna own? And I think two things need to be true there. One is I. You, you need to, three things really. You need to be very competent at solving that problem. You don't have to be competent at a lot of things, but you need to be competent at that. And then, uh, you need to like, it, it needs to light you up and give you energy and excite you because that's gonna, that's gonna make the work a lot easier. Um, and then. Three. You need to monetize it. You need to figure out, okay, how do I charge for this and what do, what products do I sell that help people solve this problem? I think if you can do those things as a coach, you're, you've probably got job security for a really long time. Kris (2): Yeah. And I think, you know, to your point, you made the decision, right? You are not, you didn't wait for permission or someone to tell you that you decided I wanna be known as the messaging story guy. Donald Miller: it was really, it was a little, yeah, it was a little bit of that, but it was a little bit of realizing that was happening. Donald Miller: And saying, okay, if this is happening, if this is where the wind is blowing, I never get tired of talking about it. I've given the StoryBrand framework talk. \[00:14:00\] You know, it's gotta be more than a thousand times now. And if I got up on a stage and gave it today, it would feel like the first time. I just don't get tired of it. And so that's a good thing. That's a good sign. And so, um, I decided to pour jet fuel on that. You know, if people are saying that you're the messaging guy, then I'm gonna say, okay, well, and that's another thing for coaches, what are people telling you? Donald Miller: you may be, you may have this ambition to be something, but everybody's telling you you're this. I would ask you to say, to, to ask yourself the question, should you just be that and should you own that and do the best you possibly can, and would that be a satisfying life for you? Because that's what, that's how people perceive you. Kris (2): Right, and we're, we're inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside, right? So often other people can look at our bottle and read the label and be like, Y you're brilliant with this, with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I liken it. I tell my clients, you know, pick one color for your front door. You know, you, you don't want 18 colors on your front door. Tell them when you, when come to my house, \[00:15:00\] look for the red door. That's my house. When they come in, of course you're gonna have different rooms, different different colors inside, but come, everybody comes through that front door, which is the one problem that you solve, Yeah. The thing that you're known for and, and what a luxury it is to be known for anything. Uh, but what I think what people don't understand is somebody like Dr. Becky or Dave Ramsey with financial advice, or you know, you there's a thousand of Andrew Huberman, uh, Peter Atia with longevity. You know, the, they have strategically made an effort to be known as the person who solves this problem. And there's some work that goes into it, but anybody listening to my voice can do that. Uh, it's not by accident. Kris (2): Yeah, I, I've been following Dr. Becky a long time and I've watched her messaging evolve and she used to be kind of the parenting coach for all kinds of kids, and, and she still does that if you come into her community. She, she does, but she's really leaned into what she calls the DFK's \[00:16:00\] deeply feeling kids, and it's all the parents that have kids were the typical parenting strategies just don't work. Right. And they're wired differently. They feel differently. They're, they res, they don't respond to the way that most parenting advice provides. Donald Miller: She, she, let's take her for an example and, and just see what we can extrapolate in terms of learning how to build a coaching business Probably. Most parents would identify their kid as deeply feeling, even if they're not right, because they, they are at a stage where they're throwing tantrums and things like that. Yeah. She also has, so she's identified a problem. She's named the problem, which is really amazing. Like, what, what if, what if every coach listening to me could actually name a problem? 'cause if you've named that problem, you have no competition. You name, you literally named it. Right, right, right. But yeah, now you, now you really own it. Right? Uh, and then second, she has a paradigm shift. She has sort of one big idea, and she talks about this big idea a lot. And the big idea is that kids are good inside. \[00:17:00\] Actually. They're not bad inside. They're good inside. And that's another thing that we can all learn from. You know what, what's the big idea that is uniquely yours? What's the problem you solve? What's that problem called? And feel free to give it your own name. And then what's the big idea that solves that problem? And then you can spend the le rest of your life explaining how to solve the problem, or holding people's hands, or being a consultant and going in and just solving the problem for them. Kris (2): Would you say that idea that kids are good inside is her philosophical statement? Donald Miller: Uh, I would say her philosophical statement, uh, would be something like parenting doesn't have to be that hard. Donald Miller: Or shouldn't be that hard. I think the, the where it's, it's a little confusing, but where the, where the kids are good inside probably fits is in the plan, you know, so if you, step one is to understand that your kid is not a bad kid. That they're good inside. Step two is to begin to treat them as such, you know, and step three is, you know, so I would actually stick that in the plan. Kris (2): Yeah, I like it. Okay. So there's a lot \[00:18:00\] happening like politically, economically, there's just, uh, changes in the air, I would say in the last year for sure. Um, people tend, or what I'm hearing from. S some of my coaching friends that people are holding onto to their money a little bit tighter. Yeah. Donald Miller: Yeah. There's uh, definitely a lack of consumer confidence right now. Kris (2): Right. What, what can coaches do differently to overcome that? Donald Miller: I, you know, I think there's a couple things. It's a fantastic question, and it is not just coaches, it's all, all people in business. But yeah, I tend to look at the news through the lens of messaging and. I under. So, you know, the, the messages right now that are affecting consumer confidence, they are not affecting the economy because the economy is strong. Jobs are up. Uh, the Dow Jones is up. Uh, our 4 0 1 Ks are up. People actually have money. So let's say analyze the messages. I think there's, there's messages about tariffs and trade negotiation and unsettled \[00:19:00\] trade negotiation that, uh, is, is affecting the economy. And everybody's wondering, okay, we actually don't know what the future looks like here. Um, but a lot of that is just bluster. It's just messaging. It's, it's, it's not actually policy. I mean, these tariffs, they tend to announce them and then take them back and. You know, Trump likes to, um, he likes to affect things and he likes to feel powerful. And then when they. When they're gonna make people miserable, he backs off, you know? 'cause he, he also likes to be liked. And so that, that's it, that's, that explains the whole Trump presidency. I want feel powerful, but I want you to like me. And so he's always doing things and then backing out of 'em. Um, that, so if you look at it as a messaging issue, you just go, okay, I see what they're doing here. Uh, the same with ai. Uh, artificial intelligence would be the second thing that's affecting. Consumer competence because we really don't know what the future looks like. However, if somebody like Peter Zion, who's a geopolitical guy who I, I admire, and he's, he's sometimes wrong, but \[00:20:00\] he's often right. He, he would say that like. Two evolutions of chat GPT from now are impossible for 20 more years because the semiconductors haven't been invented and the power grid won't allow it to happen. So whatever's happening with AI is not gonna change a whole lot for another 20 years. Now that message is gonna get buried by the press because it's not scary. And it's not sensational, Donald Miller: So sadly, all jobs are gonna be replaced and you know your children will never drive a car. Have you, have you heard that your kids are not gonna drive a car, they'll be self-driving cars. Have you ever heard that anywhere? You know, that's a popular message. It's completely untrue. Donald Miller: the, the everybody has pulled out of self-driving car funding. Your kids are gonna drive cars. But that, those messages are. Are put in place because people are incentivized to say shocking statements in order to sell advertising and get clicks, right? So the economy's gonna be fun. In my opinion. So that's, that's thing number one, realize you're okay. However, this is really how people feel, right? People are holding onto their money. Inflation, by the way, is \[00:21:00\] real. You know, people are spending more at the grocery stores, so they're, they're being careful about their money. Um, so my advice to anybody trying to grow a business is, one, don't buy into the doomsday rhetoric. It's not true. It's almost, with the exception of the Great Depression, it's never been true. Uh, and then the second thing is. If people sense that a ship is going down, they look for the life raft. Therefore, you need to be in the life raft business, you know? And if you're a coach, you need to say things like in these uncertain times when you don't know what the future looks like, you're gonna need help. You're gonna need perspective. You're gonna need a guy. You're gonna need to know where the advantages are. You're gonna need some accountability. That's why I'm gonna coach you through this difficult time. Well, you just positioned your coaching business not as a luxury. You positioned it as the life raft, and so people tend to look for the life raft. We did this during COVID. Now my business was 85% dependent on people getting on airplanes, coming to Nashville, Tennessee when COVID happened in March. And we knew we were gonna \[00:22:00\] lose 80 per 85% of our revenue. So what we did was we emptied out my living room and turned it into a studio and said, we're gonna take all of our workshops online. And I got together with Mike Mitz and we did a big webinar on how to prepare for the immediate future that COVID is going to cause. Well, that got me tens of thousands of email addresses. And then I said, in a time when you just, you, you may not even be able to open up your brick and mortar. You may not be able to have anybody in your restaurant. You may not be able to go into anybody's home. You need to clarify your message now more than ever, because if, if you have a muddy message, you're gonna be the one who everybody ignores. And we did, uh, we did about 30% more business than we'd ever done. In the year when we were supposed to do 85% less. Donald Miller: And what I kept telling my team was, life raft, life raft, life raft continue to position us as the life raft. And by the way, I wasn't lying. You know, those businesses, those restaurants that had to pivot and change \[00:23:00\] their website to a delivery outfit, we, we got them critical messaging that helped them grow during those times. Uh, many of them. And so, um, you know, there's some way that your business helps people survive and you need to, you need to talk about that. Kris (2): Yes. Just a moment to absorb that information. That was so good. So we've talked about, you know, the power of being known for solving one problem. What are two more things that every coach needs to get more clients? Donald Miller: One is, it's a big StoryBrand paradigm shift that, you know, it's the customer is the hero and you're the guide. So it's tempting probably for every coach or every entrepreneur, every small business owner to make themselves the hero of the story and tell their story. I think that's bad messaging. I think what you actually need to do is position the customer as the hero of the story and yourself as the guide. So let's unpack that for a second. In stories, you have heroes. You have, Rudy wants to play for Notre Dame, ET wants to get home. You know, on and \[00:24:00\] on. Uh, and then you have, you have guides. Guides would be like, Haymitch, who helps? Katness in the Hunger Games, Mary Poppins, who helps transform the lives of the family, especially Mr. Banks. Uh, the Guide is an interesting character in the story. They are strong, they're equipped, they have usually solved the problem that the hero is suffering from in their backstory, and now they're here to help the hero in the day. You want to position yourself as the guide for a couple reasons. One is if you position yourself as the hero, which a lot of companies do, and they do it to their own, it damages their own company when they do it. You're positioning yourself as a weak character. 'Cause all heroes are weak. They're weak, and it's only the last nine minutes of the movie that they're strong. Until then, they're ill-equipped, afraid, don't know what to do, don't wanna take action, and desperate need of help. It's absolutely not the way you wanna position yourself, and so you don't wanna do that. The the second thing is if your customer is a hero in a story and you position yourself as a hero in a story, you're in separate stories. You've just removed yourself from their story. So what you actually want to do is position yourself as the guide. So \[00:25:00\] when somebody says to you, you know, what do you do for a living? I would say, you know, I, I wrote books for years and I learned how to communicate very clearly, and then I met a lot of people who ran businesses, and I just noticed how confusing all of their messaging was. They couldn't communicate clearly. And it broke my heart. 'cause it was, it would just be so easy to change a few words and double the size of their businesses. And so I became a messaging coach and I wrote a book about it. Well, did I actually just tell my story? I didn't. What I did was I identified my customer's problem and then positioned myself as the guy who helps 'em solve that problem. I didn't tell you where I went to school. I didn't tell you I'm married. I didn't tell you I'm a dad. I didn't tell you any of that. I didn't tell, I didn't position myself as the hero. I told the part of my story that positioned me as the guide in the customer's life. That stature, that positioning yourself that way is critical to growing a business. And you know, I, I was watching, uh, uh, an \[00:26:00\] episode of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. Donald Miller: It's a great show. Yeah. Seinfeld interviews comedians and he drives him around. They go get coffee and they talk. He was with Seth Rogan and Seth, on numerous occasions, at least two would ask Seinfeld a question and it with, he was a master at spinning out of that question. A master, he. They, he would say, they would say something like, uh, you know, Seth would say, it's probably hard for you to walk into a coffee shop without getting mobbed. And, you know, any, any amateur would go, oh gosh, it is, it's so difficult. And I remember one time and blah, blah, blah. And that's not what Jerry Seinfeld did. Jerry Seinfeld said. Yeah. I mean, it can be, are you comfortable? And he just immediately wow. Out of it. Right? And I think Seinfeld knows this is not about me. Mm-hmm. And that's why we love him so much. He just doesn't make it about him. He knows his job is to entertain you. He knows he's not your guide or \[00:27:00\] coach or whatever. That's not his job. And he's not gonna make it about him. He's gonna kind of make you think. He answered the question right, but then he's gonna turn around, he's gonna get it right back to you. Donald Miller: that is what really confident masters of their crafts are able to do. And it's what we as coaches need to do. Donald Miller: Now, I think with your spouse and your friends, and there's that, it's, it's the, the rules don't apply there because you, it's a human need to tell your story and to be known by people, not your clients. It's not your job. And when I go into a message, you know, strategy session, we talk about the, the client's business, we don't talk about mine, Donald Miller: So I always have to be the guide helping the hero win because that's who they're really looking for, Kris (2): right? I have clients tell me often what if my story is boring? I don't have a good, I don't have a good story. Yeah, you don't need one. You don't need one. I say it doesn't matter that your story is about your client. You are, you are \[00:28:00\] very important. Yeah. And you character in it. But Donald Miller: you know, if, if, if you insist, like, if you insist, no, I want to tell my story. I, I say, okay, you can do that, but I want you to just tell part of it and the, the, the story that I want you to tell is why you care so much about this problem and you don't want people to suffer from it anymore. Mm-hmm. If you have that backstory, by the way, that's called the backstory of the guy, tell it all day long. Mm-hmm. Tell it all, you can talk about yourself all day long, but only why you care, right. About the customer. Right. Right. And there was, it's interesting, there's a woman in my mastermind named Emily, and she has a business. Where she pursues the money that insurance companies owe pediatricians. So insurance companies try not to pay. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And so 20 to 30% of the money that a pediatrician is owed does not get paid because the insurance company isn't paying it. So she actually works with the insurance companies to get the pediatricians paid. I asked her, I said, you know, we, we were wire framing a website for her, and I said, we've got this bio here. My, my \[00:29:00\] philosophy of a bio bio is don't tell your story. Say why you care. And I say, Emily, you're in a very unique business. I mean, you know, it's very, very niched down. I mean, insurance companies at OP pediatricians, like there's, you're the only person with planet doing this. Why? And she said, I don't know. I just, I just think they deserve to get paid. I go, no, that can't be true. Mm-hmm. If you cannot have stumbled upon this. I go, tell me like, how'd you grow up? She goes, well, my mom was a pediatrician. I go, oh, that's interesting. And what sort of tension did you have in the house? She goes, well, we always had financial tension because the insurance companies wouldn't pay us. And she looked at me and just went, oh my word. She had never connected it ever. Donald Miller: And I said, well, what happened? She goes, my mom ended up in the hospital. Stress related illnesses because she couldn't pay bills and when she was in the hospital, my dad. Took over the billing for the pediatrician stuff and discovered these insurance companies were running this scheme. And he fixed it. And I said, what happened after that? She goes, we didn't have any stress. My mom got better and we opened another practice. \[00:30:00\] Donald Miller: said, do you understand what your story is, Emily? She goes, I can't. I'm embarrassed. I never ever thought of it. And we sat, we wrote that down. Now when a pediatrician reads this, they're gonna go, this lady isn't in it for the money. This lady's in it for my family. And this lady understands it 'cause her mom went to the hospital, her. So can you tell your story? It's very important that you tell your story, but you tell it from the perspective of the backstory of the guide, the backstory of how this guide became so competent to help these heroes and you know, and if you have some pain or you have a friend who had some pain. That the customer has and that motivated you to start solving this problem. Kris (2): Mm, yeah. It's a very nuanced way to tell your like about me section. Right. It appears to be about you, but it's really about you as it relates to the hero and what it's really, it's, yeah. It's Donald Miller: really about the customer and why you, why you specifically care about them. What happened to you that you care so much about. Yeah. Yeah. You know, this issue. Kris (2): Yeah. I think a lot of, of coaches and \[00:31:00\] business owners feel like they need a really interesting backstory and they, or they really wanna tell that. And, and I always say, great, if you wanna tell that, you can tell that that's for you. That's not the story that's gonna make you money. The, the story that's gonna build your business is really inviting, inviting your hero into a story with you. Donald Miller: Yeah. You know, they're, they're in. They're in desperate need of help. And what's interesting though is if you position yourself as the guide and they begin to trust you and you actually help them, then they actually wanna know who you are, right? I mean, I, I had like knee surgery a couple of few years ago and I walk in and Dr. Rob's office. Do you, I mean, I don't really want to know Dr. Rob's story. I wanna know if he's competent to. Rip open my knee. You know what I Right? Donald Miller: And then when he, when he was able to deliver an unbelievable, uh, you know, result for me personally, then I was like, who the heck is this guy? I'd like to know who this guy is. I sent him a game \[00:32:00\] of cornhole for he and his family, you know, and, uh, I changed my wife. He fixed my knee. Uh, so you, you know, that, that desire you have to be known. Let's, let's not bury it, but let's put it off a little bit. And let's, let's, let's be known as somebody who's competent to solve the customer's problem first. By the way, what you're gonna get when you do that is respect. You're people are gonna go, I, I have such admiration for this person because they solved a problem for me. Mm-hmm. And I just love them. Now they're interested in who you actually are. Kris (2): Right, right. Yeah. Your doctor cared about your struggles and your success, number one, right? And he worked with you around that, and then you were like, okay, who is this guy? Then all Donald Miller: of a sudden I realized. This is a human being who went to med school somewhere. And you know, because before that I was just in pain. I mean, my, my knee hurt like, are you the guy to help me fix this? Donald Miller: The, and I think that's the way a lot of your customers are. They're in pain. You know, if you're a coach, you're only dealing with people who are struggling with something. Right. And you know, if it's, if you're a business coach, they can't make \[00:33:00\] payroll or they're worried, or they, you know, they don't know any good tax strategies or those sort of things and, uh, you know, honor the fact that they're in pain. Kris (2): right? And help them really like. Not feel alone in their pain. I think sometimes heroes have been with the pain long enough that they've kind of forgotten about it. It's become like the frog in boiling water. Like Kris (2): it, it, it's still painful, but they've grown kind of used to it. And so it can be really helpful to kind of articulate the problem in a way that reminds them like, you're struggling with this, but there's a better way and I can help you out of it. Kris (2): So you and I are collaborating on a book right now, which is, no, I couldn't be more Kris (2): I am so thrilled to be collaborating with you and this, not to give everything away, but it's really a, a story brand book specifically for coaches and really. Really, \[00:34:00\] um, tangible ways to apply StoryBrand to a coaching business and to do it in a way where ideal clients say yes. So why is this book important right now? Donald Miller: Well, you know, I, we have the idea of doing building a StoryBrand for coaches for obvious reasons. Coaching is close to my heart. Building a story brand is the framework that I created, but also. We wondered what it would look like to actually help a specific industry clarify that message. 'cause you know, the book building of StoryBrand is, is, is done well, but it has to stay very broad. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. I mean, I've worked with everybody from national security to people who are selling Phish food and, you know, it's gotta reach all those people. So we thought the, the unique needs and challenges of a coach, you know. Not wanting to talk very much about themselves, not being super comfortable with that. Sometimes wondering how to create a coaching product and sell it, how, you know, those sorts of things. Uh, we thought this might deserve a book. And what, what I'm really proud of with the book that we're collaborating on and that you're doing a lot of the writing for \[00:35:00\] is the actual StoryBrand part of it is. Really quick. I mean, it's like 10 pages. And instead of sort of pretending and adding coaching language to the existing book, we actually have a couple hundred pages of specific strategies on how to get your message out there as a coach. Mm-hmm. And it's a completely different and new book than building a StoryBrand. Just a little summary of the framework at the beginning. So I, you know, I'm, I'm very, very excited for this to hit the market. I, I think it's gonna be one of those books that, that tens of thousands of coaches sort of look back and say, that was the moment when I read, when I read that, or I listened to the audio book. That was when I realized I can do this and I can have a, a high six figure and maybe even seven figure coaching business and really transform lives. Kris (2): Um. You and I both became parents a little bit later in life. Yeah. I think we have that in common, which I think is like the perfect time to have kids. Kris (2): You're a lot smarter. Yeah. It's still, it's still it, you \[00:36:00\] know, uh, it's a difficult journey and a joyful one as well. Um, I'm curious, like I can talk all day long about how having my son. Made me a better person, but ultimately forced me to have really good boundaries Yes. Around my work. Yeah. And, and to be more strategic about how I work with my clients. And I'd love to hear how Emmaline has impacted your business Donald Miller: life. Y yeah. It's, it's for being a dad, it has forced me to. Compartment my, compartmentalize my work into specific hours of the day. Uh, and what's amazing is, well, the same thing happened when I got married, because I got married at 42 and became a dad at 49 and at 42, I was convinced. I was gonna make a lot less money, was not gonna be able. But what happened when, when I actually had to compartmentalize my work into a certain number of hours, is I, I found that I was more focused and I worked harder. And I would \[00:37:00\] say my productivity doubled after getting married. Mm-hmm. And yet I was home by five every day. And I didn't work on weekends, which was completely different than the way I used to live. So it's been 42 years just working all the time. Donald Miller: Yeah. I, I mean, I loved it. It didn't bother me at all. No. Uh, and, but that's, that's a great way to wreck a marriage. Right. So, uh, and then, but I would say with parenting it's, it's harder, but have been able to maintain about 90% of that productivity. Even after becoming a dad, and I'm home pretty much every day by 4:00 PM and so I spend about 30 minutes to an hour with Emmaline in the morning, and then after 4:00 PM till she goes to bed at seven, she's four. So she's still gonna bed pretty early. We get those three hours together and then summer, all three hours are in the swimming pool. You know, that's what we do. And then often I'm able to run home for lunch and spend a little time with her too. Um, I just knew, you know, that that decision came because the, one of the benefits is, you know, of being a parent when you're older is you're sort of done proving yourself. You know, you know who you are, so you don't have to go out and prove \[00:38:00\] anything, even if you're ambitious. Uh, and you also know that you're gonna regret. Not spending this time with your kid, even if it's annoying and hard and you, you're just, you know, you're going to regret it. Because you can't get this time back. So, I would say it was a giant upside to me. And the, uh, and it, it's also, I think, helped me as a person. I've noticed that I relate so much more strongly to my clients because I, under, I, I, I sort of understand. A part of their life that I did, I just didn't understand before, you know? Yeah. I'd call somebody and say, Hey, I gotta take this football game. Can you, you know, it starts in an hour. Do you want me to pick you up? And they're just like, whatcha are you talking about? Can you, what, what universe do you live in? I can leave in an hour. Uh, you know, so that I, now, I, I, let's just say I made a lot of calls and apologize to a lot of guys, assuming that they could just do that. Um. Yeah. You know, and even now there's some rules. Uh, I I really, it's gonna be very difficult to do, and I've certainly not mastered it, but I, I \[00:39:00\] don't want emmaline to have memories of me holding a phone. Mm. So I literally walk into my house. I put the phone on the credenza. I just don't pick it up. Um, and that's not she, if you asked Emmaline, you ever see dad with his phone? She would say yes. Uh, because I've broken that rule many times. But to me, those just, just being able to be home by four or five o'clock. Not have my phone with me. If I, if I go anywhere with a family, I literally don't take it. I physically leave it. Wow. Uh, and, and then I just eye contact. But, you know, I thought being a dad was gonna be really difficult and hard and, you know, there's certainly, I. Uh, certain hard aspects to it, but honestly, if you just don't have your phone with you and you make eye contact, that's like 90% of a connecting with any human being. It's so it's going okay so far, Kris (2): right? Right. It's not, it's not complicated, right. It's no relatively simple, but yeah, the phone piece is. Is huge. So much. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, Don, thank you so much for your time today. My pleasure and such a joy. Um, tell, tell my \[00:40:00\] listeners where do you wanna send them? Where can they get more of your beautiful wisdom? Donald Miller: Well, if you're gonna coach builder.com, you can see all the resources that we offer coaches. And I wrote a book called Coach Builder. That has eight steps to building a coaching business. So it's things like wire framing your website, you know, getting your, your message out there, uh, all of which, uh, red door design can do for you. So I'll give a little plug there. Uh, but, you know, a lot of coaches are really great at coaching, but they, they actually just don't know how to grow a business and monetize. So they're missing out on a lot of opportunities there. And so I wrote Coach Builder to help 'em out. So Coach Builder would be the book, coach builder.com would be the place to go. Mm. Donald Miller: My pleasure, Kris. Good to talk to you again. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/service-provider-automation-work-less-make-more-geoffrey-halsey ### Title: How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy ### Page ID: 7393929 ### Content: # How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy How Geoffrey Has More Free Time With a StoryBrand Website and AI Automation Strategy Ever feel like you’re playing email ping-pong just to book a single call? Today I’m introducing you to my sweetheart, Geoffrey. ? He used to spend hours every week chasing clients, sending invoices, and manually following up. It was draining—and wildly inefficient. **A $39 one-time purchase that now runs his entire scheduling process.** But here’s the real magic—it wasn’t just about saving time. He now confidently turns away wrong-fit clients (even the high-ticket ones)... Because his **Story-Driven website** attracts the right people *and repels the wrong ones.*  ✅ The automation tools that streamlined his pipeline ✅ The email that sparked 80+ replies during his slowest season ✅ The mindset that lets him say no to money—and feel good about it **?** [**Listen to the full episode here**](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-11-how-geoffrey-has-more-free-time-with-a/id1787187223?i=1000688796171) to discover how to automate systems so they work as hard as you do. **Kris:** Welcome to from click to client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast geoffrey Halsey. Geoffrey is a longtime client of mine. We've done lots of work together. And today what we want to talk about is really the things that he's done in his business that have helped him work less and make more money. So, Geoffrey, tell us a little bit about yourself. **Geoff:** Hello, and thanks for having me on. so I, uh, I'm in business in Portland, Oregon, and we get a lot of rain here in Portland, and it really wreaks havoc with old windows. And I found a long time ago that people need help with these windows to bring them Into proper \[00:01:00\] function and, make them work like they're supposed to. So I developed a business model around that, and that's what I've been doing now for about 18 years. And along with that, I can replicate traditional windows and put them in people's homes so everything matches and is a alternative to a replacement window. **Kris:** so Geoff when you get on the phone with your potential clients, what are they frustrated by what aretheir struggles? **Geoff:** You know, a lot of times people find me through web search and usually they, you know, they're living in a home that is upwards of a hundred years or more old and they, they've been dealing with these old sticky windows. They've never quite worked right and they're on the hunt for a solution and a lot of times people's first stop is replacement. And so **Geoff:** buying brand new windows and replacing their original windows that, you know, \[00:02:00\] that are already there and, usually my website comes up in that search and, and I think folks that may not already know that it's a possibility to restore windows, have their interest,tickles a little bit. I want to talk about how we met. SoGeoff and I have known each other seven years now. And when I met him you had **Kris:** an outdated website, and you knew you were ready for a new website. So you talked to several people, I was one of them, and fortunately, we got to work together. So what I originally did for Geoff's company was to rebrand it. So we, we freshened up the logo and the overall brand palette, and then we totally revamped the website and kind of brought it into this modern day and age. So, Geoff, do you want to talk about so that phase of working together. Certainly. **Geoff:** So you're right, when we,when we initially came \[00:03:00\] together to work on my website, it was pretty outdated. You know, it was, you're real traditional and I think it was all code based, and, you know. I remember there being a really in depth and detailed about us page that was,You know, no one's going to read all that. a lot of history about our name and why we chose what our name was. You know, it was, it was a, it was a place to start, but after 10 years of having that website, it was definitely time for a change. okay. So full disclosure, Geoff and I met seven and a half years ago. We became friends. We had a working relationship and a friendship, and now we are in an actual relationship with each other. **Kris:** So Geoff is my partner. And because of that, we're constantly talking about marketing and ways that he can uplevel his business and really continue to hone his marketing game so he can essentially work less, \[00:04:00\] make more money. That's the ultimate goal. And so over the course of the last year, we have done a ton of work on his business. We have applied StoryBrand. We have sent out an email blast to his entire list. We have created AI headshots for him. We have set him up with a calendaring system called TidyCal that's really allowed him to automate calls with his clients so he doesn't have to manually do the back and forth that comes with doing that via email. **Geoff:** that, that back and forth is huge. It's been really **Kris:** We've created yard signs, door hangers, and van magnets. So his brand is literally driving around town and in neighborhoods. We have, implemented AI tools in a lot of different ways. We've, Implemented StoryBrand Framework into his website, redesigned the entire website. We have created a one minute process \[00:05:00\] video, so in one minute, people can watch Geoffrey restoring an old window and making it look new again. we've tuned up his typeforms, so it's much more efficient when people give him information. They get to directly book a call with him and he is not on the hook to reply to every intake that comes in. And most recently, we've implemented a quoting system called Quill. And Quill is a beautiful way to put together proposals. If you have a business that requires custom proposals for your clients, Quill has been kind of a game changer as far as just streamlining. Both the creation of the proposal, but also beautiful, beautiful presentation and experience for the viewer. And it integrates, you know, signing the proposal, next step, scheduling, the whole thing. It's all kind of under one roof. So that has been huge. and I would say, I'm \[00:06:00\] curious how you would answer this, but I would say signing up for Tidy Cal and Tidy Cal is an alternate to Calendly. It has all the capability of Calendly but it's 39 and it is the best 39 you'll ever spend. 39 **Kris:** One time. One time payment of 39. Yeah, I feel like I'm getting **Geoff:** away with something when I use it, but yeah, it's a really great product. **Kris:** Yeah. So tell, tell me like what that's been like for you to to automate that part of your business. Because from my perspective, I feel like you're at least getting about five hours back per week using this tool. **Geoff:** I mean, that's hard for me to quantify, but it's probably a reasonable. estimate. what I've noticed about it is just eliminating all the back and forth. So yeah, if I was to go in and kind of count up the amount of times I email back and forth or just, you know, leave messages on answering machines, trying to catch up with a prospect. It has really shaved \[00:07:00\] that down to almost zero because I am, I'm putting the option in the, in the prospect's lap of, choosing a time that works for them. And,I have two different kinds of bookings that I'm doing right now. Two, one is just a half hour, phone call. and then the other one that I do, I have to go to people's homes to assess their project and I, I bill for that and I charge 130 for people to have me come do an assessment and produce a proposal and I can collect that payment when they book that meeting, which has been really cool. Like, I don't even have to think about any of it. It just happens. And so it's all very seamless and it works great. I've been really super pleased with how that works. **Kris:** So prior to all of this, like the old way was you go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth to book it, to book the initial site visit, you send them a separate invoice \[00:08:00\] for the site visit, which they may pay or they may not pay. **Geoff:** And then you'd show up to this site visit and gather your information, then go back and work without AI, an estimate was taking you. Either half day or a full day. let's say a half day is a good average. Yeah. **Kris:** And work on the proposal, and then put that proposal into quickbooks and then send that QuickBooks to the client, hope that they accept it and then follow up, create a new QuickBooks document that's like their deposit and bill them separately. there. In addition, send them forms and. legal documents in a separate document that they have to sign and docu sign and So like when you got a new client it was A lot of logistics on your part. **Geoff:** Oh yeah. And I mean, there was a lot of logistics before they were ever even a client, you know, just kind of getting them to the onboarding \[00:09:00\] stage. There was a lot of back and forth and,and I mean, really. Like all of these things that, you listed kind of at the top of the, of this episode are things that are happening within my, my sales pipeline. all, you know, before they're ever a client and which is where I was really struggling for a long time. You know, where it's where I was consistently bottlenecked. And, I have to take advantage of all my leads and I have to kind of try to treat them all with the same amount of attention and, immediacy. And so, Being able to get through those initial stages and, making those things happen quickly while the client is interested has been really key. **Kris:** Right. And, and actually, like, with every day you wait to get back to them. your odds of getting them to say yes get cut in half. And so if you reply within that 24 hour time range, they're way more likely to work with you \[00:10:00\] because it sets the tone that you're responsive, that you're on on the ball, and that you're professional. Whereas we all know what it feels like on the other end, if you send an email to a company and maybe you want to work with them and then you don't hear back from them for five to seven days, you've just had a not a super positive first impression of working with them. So the beauty of all of this is that it's making your life easier, but it's also really giving your customers a more accurate feel for what it's going to be like to work with you, because you take such good care of your clients. And that really wasn't coming through in the clunkiness of the beginning stages of the relationship. **Kris:** so often in Oregon, we talked a little bit about the rain. In the winters, people go into their caves in Portland and nobody wants to come outside. \[00:11:00\] People go to bed early. They, they sleep in later. And so what happens, around the holidays? For Geoff is that things get quiet, right? People aren't thinking about making a big investment Because they don't even want to deal with a big a big decision until the new year hits, So it's really hard to keep the pipeline full and get people excited about signing on the dotted line pre holiday in that whole month of December, which is really Difficult for a business like yours because you really need to keep that pipeline full and going. Oh, yeah. **Geoff:** You know, we have a lot of overhead and just kind of keeping a, you know, a steady stream of revenue coming through is really important. **Kris:** Yes. So one of the things that we decided to do was to really just reach out to Geoff's entire email list and **Kris:** the whole list. And I think you have about 1500. **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah. And so, and Geoff doesn't have a lead magnet or anything like that. So these All of these 1500 people have literally emailed Geoff wanting to potentially work together at some point in time. all of these **Geoff:** addresses were derived through,just organic type form submittals. You know, people that found me, submitted a, an inquiry and just, and now they're in my system and I, you know, I have access to all of those addresses. **Kris:** So we decided to email everybody and just check in. And so the first iteration of that email was kind of felt like a, like a winter newsletter, like, hello, you know, hello, audience, hello homeowner and this is what we're up to and we're hope you have a wonderful holiday and you know, it was, it felt long. I can't even fully remember it, but I remember looking at the first draft and thinking this feels like a 1500 \[00:13:00\] people. **Geoff:** Yeah. I kind of, it's funny. I. I forgot that there was even that iteration, but yeah, you're right. **Kris:** Yeah. And so what we ended up doing is we worked together and, and basically we wrote the email to one person. We said, what, how would we craft this email? If we were checking in with a client, a potential client who, or a lead,who we'd talked to three months prior. And so it was way more casual. Hey. Nick, just checking in, are you still looking to get your windows restored? And then we, we maybe added another line of text and we included a video in there. right. Didn't we include that video in there? Yeah. We got **Geoff:** the video in there. And,Yeah, but I think the whole key was keeping it light and **Kris:** super short. So the beauty was it had a little one minute video in there watching him do his work. And it was a very like a two sentence email that felt very much like Geoff was personally checking in with that one particular client. And \[00:14:00\] so tell us about what you're feeling when you hit send on that email. **Geoff:** Yeah, so, you and I spent some time crafting the message, getting it ready. I think I sat on it for a couple of days, you know, just kind of mapping out just how it was going to go. And I think I hit send on a Wednesday or a Thursday. And,and I was feeling good and like, okay, this is going out. And then, and then I realized that I had sent this to upwards of 1, 500 people. And I had this sort of,dark cloud fall over me, realizing that,I was potentially going to need to be managing a lot of incoming email. And,you know, hindsight being 20, 20, I might've broken it up and do a few smaller bite sized bits, but as a, as things go, I managed it. I think I, I think I generated probably, I think probably maybe 80 to a hundred. Previous contacts got back \[00:15:00\] in touch to one degree or another, you know, I would say most of the people that got back to me appreciated that I reached out in the first place. several of them converted to being actively interested and created just that that extra boost to my sales pipeline that I really needed. And since then. I've converted a couple of them. So it was valuable and it, and it did what it needed to do. **Kris:** Tell me how it feels now when you send people to your website, how do you feel when you're doing that now? **Geoff:** You know, it's, it's such a,I get, I consistently get really like rave reviews about my website. Like I'll walk through someone's store after we've set up a meeting and. One of the first things that I hear a lot of the time is, man, your website looks so good. It works really well. It was easy, you know, all of the things that you want to hear. And so I know from my,my client's perspective, \[00:16:00\] it really works the way you want a website to work. so just knowing that gives me a lot of confidence and that I can, you know, this is Something that I can present to people and be truly, like, proud of it. And, and, and really believe that it showcases What my offers are and, and why I'm here doing what I do, you know, it speaks truth and it does a little bit of education on the front end too, because what I do is not, widely known about. And so, a lot of what I have had to do historically is educate people about it and let them know that it's possible. So, it's, it does a really good job of that. I just. It gives me a lot of confidence going into a new interaction with a prospective client. I know that I, you know, that they've been prepped, they have an accurate impression of what, what I'm going to be like. when I get there, because there's pictures of me, it's in my voice. so. **Kris:** Mm. \[00:17:00\] You had shared with me earlier that prior to revamping your, your website and your business, you kind of felt like pretty passive about how you would get clients. You said, I felt like when they'd come my way, it was just about luck, like pure luck. Then you shared that now you have a better sense of control around how you get business. So tell us about that. **Geoff:** Yeah, I felt like before I was just kind of this passive sea creature that filters plankton out of the water and, you know, manages to stay alive just through this kind of passive action that I don't have a whole lot of control over and by being able to control my message better on the front end has really given me, again, it kind of ties back to that confidence thing. You know, I don't feel as passive. I feel like the, I am actively putting a message out there that is attracting a certain set of clients that \[00:18:00\] I want to talk to. And,whereas this sort of, you know, plankton gathering version,I, you know, I get a lot of,a lot of curiosity seekers and, people that may not be. prepared to spend what it takes to work with me, and you know, that takes time, you know, having to like filter those people out. And if, if that can be done before they ever get to you, it's really helpful. **Kris:** It's so true. I feel like, you know, an intentional message, an intentional story, strategic website. Of course, we want it to draw in and attract those ideal clients. But as important is that it repels the wrong fit clients, right? So Absolutely. You get to really protect your time as the business owner because your job and your role is best spent going out and getting new business. Um, speaking of wrong fit clients and this also with this idea \[00:19:00\] of confidence, tell us about some clients because it's inevitable. Like when we put ourselves out there and we become more visible, we are going to attract more people. Some wrong fit clients are going to find their way through the cracks. And so, part of what's been fun for me to witness Watching you navigate through the year is gaining that confidence and overcoming imposter syndrome and it's, it's a, it's a process, right? um, what's happened for you around wrong fit clients that get through the cracks? **Geoff:** Oh, gosh. I mean, there's lots of different kinds, but, you know, I I had a, I had a potential and, they were, they were really excited straight out of the gate. And, we built a, We built a project for them worth, it was worth tens of thousands of dollars. it was going to be a really big project. So wehad everything lined up and when it was \[00:20:00\] time to start, collecting to start the project, they told me they decided that they didn't want to do that and they were going to give up their, reservation payment. All's fair. And I said, okay, that's fine. Let me just try to, you know, reiterate some of the positive points about my offer. And, I sent a quick email with a few bullet points, kind of reminding them of why they came to me in the first place. And. They changed their mind. They said, okay, we'll do it. So we were back on, and then a couple of weeks went by and They ended up canceling the project again. So I said, all right, I'm not going to try to talk you into it again. and so this was all last fall. And then, I just heard from this client again. Asking if we'd be willing to, do a portion of the project that we had originally,had, bid on. And my initial motivation was to say, yes, of course we will. You know, everything's in the can. I know exactly what needs to happen. I could \[00:21:00\] very easily put this project in the queue and move forward. But there was something that was just kind of eating at me. Telling me this is not a good idea. We've been down this road twice now, and what's the potential for, this project to go sideways, and And I, and I had to respectfully decline the project. and I knew that I was turning away several thousand dollars, but, interacting with this client and. Just getting a feel and a better sense of, their potential for,becoming upset and pinning it on me was great. And, and I think that the thing that I really, you know, we were talking about confidence and really trusting yourself. when things like that happen. I think that was a really empowering moment when I was able to switch gears, walk away from my initial, motivation to take the project on because like any work is good work, you know, and really knowing that \[00:22:00\] that's not always true. so it was, it was empowering, you know, and it made me. I walked away feeling like I made the right decision. There wasn't a question in my mind about it. **Kris:** Hmm. What a good feeling. So tell me,how really being intentional with your story and revamping your online presence, how you show up online, whether it's your website or your Google reviews or the video of you doing your work, like elevating your online presence, how has that contributed to overcoming imposter syndrome? **Geoff:** Man,I have to, I have to give credit where it's due because,you being the, the master nudger that you are and, you know, pretty consistent,presence in my life,can say that I wouldn't be where I'm at right now without some of those nudges. So, but I think the online presence part, like all of those things of like, classically, I'm not a very good self promoter, never have been. It's not \[00:23:00\] where my comfort lies. so it has been a growing experience to really try to, fit into those shoes. and as I do, like, as I kind of inhabit the space that I haven't classically been used to, it just by doing it has,given given me more confidence and and I think all of these interactions that I have with my clients now, you know, kind of moving forward and, you know, like they all kind of build on each other and they all Sort of bolster my own inner sense of my expertise and knowledge base, and I'm, you know, I, I know that I have those things, but, it is a tangible, it, it's a tangible, example of, of, of it being true, if that makes sense. **Kris:** Geoff, what's changed for you in the last year as a business owner? **Geoff:** I think, I think a lot of business owners would probably, say something similar to this, but it's just the, ubiquity or, you know, the \[00:24:00\] developing ubiquity of, artificial intelligence as it really, you know, just like the easy access to it that we have now, has really completely changed the way I, do my proposal writing, whereas, a year or so ago, everything used to happen within the QuickBooks platform, I would have some, some basic menu options that I would choose from, and I was constantly having to modify them, and if a project was at all outside of my regular scope, which they often are, there was just a lot of Continual tweaking and a lot of brain work and a lot of keeping things, categorized and trying to think of ways to categorize them in the most presentable fashion and As I've gotten more and more comfortable with using AI, I use Claude specifically. just the amount that it's taken off my plate, just from an organization standpoint,is just incalculable. Being able to just brain dump into just a simple Google \[00:25:00\] Doc and then being able to plug that into the AI and it just sorts it out and gives me such a good jumping off point to then, be able to modify and reiterate. And, it's, it's really pretty amazing. And I think if you are a business owner that spends any amount of time in, and I'm going to call this a creative process because it is, you know, you have to create a narrative you have, but you also have to be organized about it and you have to do the math and, it's just a really good thought partner and helping you organize all that stuff. And it's, it's been. Hugely, hugely important and I can't see ever doing it going back to the old way. Oh no. **Kris:** Yeah, a couple of things that you've been doing that I think are really cool are you've been recording your site visits. So you'll go to a client home, you'll Just press record and it will record your your conversation and then you can go back and plug that into Claude. It will basically make sure that you have not that \[00:26:00\] you do not forget any detail about what they need and what you need to pay attention to. You can also talk into it. And just brain dump verbally, which is really cool. And then I think the most game changing thing that you've done is, well, Geoff is, you should know, Geoff is a master at spreadsheets. He loves. Spreadsheets. And,they are not my jam, but they're his jam. And so he has all this data and it's very organized in the spreadsheet. And what he has been able to do is just literally copy and paste that spreadsheet into Claude and then Claude converts that. I can And, and I'm learning how to organize my spreadsheets better. So the AI can. analyze it more efficiently. we're teaching each other. It's kind of weird. But,yeah, my, my spreadsheets are pretty unwieldy, or at least were, and I've had to really tighten them up and really and make some \[00:27:00\] decisions about what kind of information I want to present and kind of standardize some things. So it's Just the whole process has been, just a lesson in organizing my thoughts and how I think about, the way I present a proposal. It's been totally game changing. **Kris:** Yes, completely game changing. I mean, I used to watch you agonize over these proposals for hours and hours, and like, he'd be plugging away at the same proposal multiple days in a row. And it was, it was torture, right? And then it was kind of like all this work and they might just be like, Nope, we went with somebody else. So it's like, it's really, really frustrating. And I, back in my earlier days of my career, I did a lot of proposal writing and it was always my least, my least favorite thing to do. Right. I created a proposal for you eight years ago ish. and you accepted it. Thank you. so, okay, let's, let's dig \[00:28:00\] a little bit deeper we're, uh, get into the real meat. So Geoff and I. I would say once a week, we like to go to this divey, divey dive bar in Portland, Oregon. It's called YURS, Y U R S, and there are no windows. it's just this very dark cave, and we always sit at the bar. And I remember, a couple months ago, he was telling me that he got an email from a client he had given a proposal to. And essentially, the email said, you know, this is way too expensive. I would never, I would never consider moving forward with a project that's this is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. Like, essentially, that's the vibe of the email that he got from his client. And so, you know, of course, like, we're all human. And of course, that's gonna hurt your feelings, essentially, like, it doesn't feel good, **Kris:** Yeah, we all do. And I think, you know, we're, as service providers, we have big hearts. We really \[00:29:00\] care about our clients and we want them to be happy. And when people get attitude with us, it like, it will affect us. Period. Anything goes wrong, you're thinking about it in the shower, it's with you until you've kind of navigated through all these emotions. Right. I want to hear about what you did to really accelerate the processing of your emotions behind that email. **Geoff:** so, one of the things that I use AI for is to help me quickly generate email,and, and it isn't that I'm just, You know, blasting out, solely AI generated emails. I, I usually just kind of use it to, you know, get the basic structure and then I tune it up and give it my own voice and send it away. and this particular one, you know, I wanted to handle gracefully and, I wanted to at least advocate for myself a little bit and, you know, cause I was feeling a little, my feelings were a little hurt. And so I started doing that and, you know, and Claude helped me \[00:30:00\] craft something that, you know, supported my position gracefully, you know, walked away. Claude had, had produced this, lovely message with all of the required components and then,and then I believe I said, okay, so what would this message look like if I Wanted to be a real jerk. And, and then Claude really stepped up to the plate and said something like, Oh, he went, you want to be nasty? and it produced a, a really scathing reply. And that made me feel pretty good. And at the end of its reply, I said, Remember, you don't want to send this, but it sure feels good, doesn't it? Would you, would you, would you like to try again? A little nastier? And I said, yeah, yeah, let's do it again. And so It produced a new version that was even more acidic than the first, and at the end it said, would you like to go again? And I said, I think, I think its exact words were, would \[00:31:00\] you like to go harder? And I said, Yeah, yeah, go harder. and then it really delivered the goods, but all of this is to say it was a It was a very cathartic experience to be able to kind of work through some of those thoughts and you know kind of pretend to create this this message that you know, I obviously never sent but It was useful **Kris:** It's like you've got someone who's on your team that's by your side that's validating your value and why this guy, you know, isn't valuing you and,Yeah, I just remember looking at the chat because you shared it with me and it was like iteration after iteration, go harder, go harder, go harder, and it just got more and more fun like the harder you went. And I think ultimately. You know that whole thing probably took you 10 10 minutes or 15 minutes, right if that yeah And but you came out of it Totally at peace with this whole \[00:32:00\] situation, right? You sent you sent a very polite very graceful email reply to this guy but you had gotten all that muck out of your system and Claude had really helped facilitate that process., **Geoff:** it was really pretty, it was remarkable, you know, and I think it it gives some insight into some of these ancillary uses that we're hearing about AI being applied to like therapy for humans. You know, like,it can, I can see it being useful in certain situations. I'm sure, you know, professional human therapists, you I don't want to hear that, but,I think there's, I think there's a place for, for that kind of interaction and, and I was surprised at it, you know, it was, it was,like I, I would not have expected to, get that much,catharsis out of this back and forth with, uh, with the Claude **Kris:** Geoff, it has been so fun having you here on the podcast today. Thank you for joining me. And where can people find you online? **Geoff:** So we are at, uh, \[00:33:00\] eastportlandsash. com, um, that's the name of my business and we serve the greater Portland Metro region. Give us a shout if you're in this area and you have an old house with old windows. Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money making messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of from click to client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones, and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storytelling-boost-website-conversions-science-backed-framework ### Title: How to Use Storytelling to Boost Website Conversions ### Page ID: 7393965 ### Content: # How to Use Storytelling to Boost Website Conversions How to Use Storytelling to Boost Website Conversions Ever wonder why some websites instantly make you think,  *“YES, this is exactly what I need”*—while others lose you in seconds? I just released a quick episode explaining why **websites that tell a story convert up to 400% better** than traditional ones. Most service providers are still doing what I call the **“credentials dump”** ?—listing experience, certifications, achievements... and then wondering why qualified leads aren't reaching out. **Your expertise might get you on the shortlist, but story gets you chosen.**  ? **The brain chemicals that drive buying decisions** (this part’s wild) ⚡ **How to win those crucial first 7 seconds on your site**  ? **The simple framework that makes sales calls feel effortless** When you get this right, something powerful happens: **Clients show up to your discovery calls already pre-sold—because your website did the heavy lifting.** **?** [**Listen now**](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-13-how-to-use-storytelling-to-boost-website-conversions/id1787187223?i=1000693335559) **and learn the science behind a high-converting story-driven site** Welcome to from click to client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Did you know that websites that tell a story convert up to 400 percent better than traditional websites? But most service providers still fill their websites with features and credentials, and they're wondering why qualified leads aren't reaching out. Today, I'm going to share a Science backed framework that transforms your website from a digital brochure into a client converting machine. Here's what makes stories so powerful. When we experience a compelling story, our brains release specific chemicals that drive decisions. Cortisol keeps us engaged, oxytocin builds trust, dopamine creates excitement about the potential success, and endorphins generate positive feelings about the transformation to \[00:01:00\] come. this follows a universal pattern that's literally hardwired into our brains. Think about Star Wars. Luke Skywalker is the hero facing impossible challenges, while Yoda shows up as the guide offering wisdom and a path forward. This same pattern works powerfully on your website. Your clients are the hero in your story. They're facing challenges that keep them up at night. Maybe they're overwhelmed, they're stuck, they're unsure how to move forward. Your website needs to reflect these challenges back to them. this is where you come in. Not as another hero, but as their guide. Notice how Yoda never talks about his own achievements. Instead, he focuses entirely on Luke's journey. Your website should work the same way. In today's distracted world, you have just seven seconds before someone swipes away from your website. In those seven seconds, you must communicate three things. What do you do? How it will make their life better and the clear step they should take next. here's an example from a relationship coach. Her \[00:02:00\] website would say, I help couples rebuild trust and intimacy after infidelity so they can create a stronger relationship than ever before. Book your relationship breakthrough call today. That's how you make those seven seconds count. We've gone over what she does. How it's going to make their life better and what she wants them to do next. When you get this right something remarkable happens your sales cycle shortens because clients arrive on your discovery calls pre sold They book calls already knowing you understand their challenges and can help them succeed. If you'd like help implementing this framework, book a money making messaging call with me today. and let's transform your website into a story that sells. Remember, your expertise might get you on someone's shortlist, but it's the emotional connection created through a story that gets you chosen. Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money making messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. \[00:03:00\] That's all for this episode of from click to client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones, and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/5-website-mistakes-costing-you-clients ### Title: 5 Website Mistakes That Are Costing You Clients ### Page ID: 7394714 ### Content: # 5 Website Mistakes That Are Costing You Clients I just dropped a new podcast episode that might sting a little… but in a good way. I'm talking about the **5 website mistakes that are quietly costing you clients** every single day.  And here's the kicker—most service providers have *no idea* they're making them.  ? **Mistake #1: Navigation overload** (that 8-page menu is hurting you)  ? **Mistake #5: Weak testimonials** that say nothing about transformation **They’re story problems—problems that confuse your visitors instead of giving them confidence.** But here’s the good news: every mistake has a simple fix you can make today. I’ve seen these tweaks **double or even triple conversion rates**—because when your website tells the right story, everything changes. **?** [**Listen now: The 5 silent website mistakes killing your sales**](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-15-5-website-mistakes-that-are-costing-you-dream-clients/id1787187223?i=1000697581417) Welcome to from click to client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. If you're frustrated with your website conversion rates, you are not alone. Most service providers are making five critical mistakes without realizing it. Let's fix them together. Mistake number one, navigation overload. think about how you use your phone. You scroll quickly, you make quick decisions, yet most websites force visitors to click through multiple pages, losing attention at every turn. The fix one seamless story that flows Someone lands on your page and they can gather all the information they need through scrolling through that home page. And that answers all their questions. And then they're excited about taking the next step toward working with you. Like a Netflix show that's designed for binge watching, your website should \[00:01:00\] flow naturally, from problem to solution. Mistake number two, generic messaging. Listen to this. We leverage innovative solutions to optimize your business outcomes. What does that even mean? Industry jargon and vague promises kill connection instantly. Instead, Use your client's exact words when they say, I'm working harder than ever, but barely breaking, even make that your headline and they'll feel instantly understood Mistake number three, visual chaos, too many fonts, too many colors, too many competing elements. This creates mental fatigue. Your website shouldn't look like Times Square at midnight. The solution is strategic simplicity. Use white space intentionally. Guide the eyes with clear hierarchy. Every element should serve your story. Mistake number four, weak calls to action. learn more or contact us buttons are way too vague. Instead, offer a clear next step that promises value. get your \[00:02:00\] path to freedom blueprint or book your money making messaging call, then show a simple three step path to success. Mistake number five, poor social proof. Jane is great. She's so professional. These generic testimonials might as well be invisible. Transform them into mini client success stories. For example, before working with Jane, I was working 60 hour work weeks and barely breaking even. Now, I work 30 hours and make twice as much. That shows the transformation That your clients have experienced without talking all about you. These fixes aren't just theory. I've seen them double and triple conversion rates for hundreds of service providers. Ready to transform your website? Schedule a money making messaging call with me at red door stories. com. That's R E D D O O R S T O R I E S. Let's turn your website into your most powerful sales tool. And remember, your website isn't just a digital business card, it's your 24 7 \[00:03:00\] salesperson. make it work as hard as you do. Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money making messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of from click to client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones, and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/quantum-physics-consistent-five-figure-months-lachelle-wieme ### Title: How to Spiral Up: Breaking Through Business Barriers with LaChelle Wieme ### Page ID: 7394716 ### Content: # How to Spiral Up: Breaking Through Business Barriers with LaChelle Wieme How to Spiral Up: Breaking Through Business Barriers with LaChelle Wieme Ever wonder why some entrepreneurs effortlessly attract clients… while others (maybe you?) stay stuck in the feast-or-famine cycle? ? I just dropped a fascinating episode with Dr. LaChelle Wieme that dives into the *science* behind business success. Spoiler: it has nothing to do with another sales funnel or marketing strategy. **Your thoughts create energy frequencies that either attract or repel money.** ? The 4-step manifesting process that *actually* works (no vision boards required) ? Why quantum physics explains how lottery winners lose it all ⚡ Her voice analysis tech that shifts you into “money frequency” in minutes **She explains how invisible fears can silently stall your business**— and how to clear them by tapping into what she calls *universal guidance* for instant clarity. After getting clear on her story (and fully believing in it), her close rate jumped from 20% to 95%. ? [**Listen to the full episode here**](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-17-how-to-spiral-up-breaking-through-business-barriers/id1787187223?i=1000699607083) to change how you think about business growth—forever. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to the podcast. I am thrilled to bring on one of my dear friends and client with La Chelle Wieme, she is a masterful coach and an inspiration to her clients. everyone around her on so many levels, and I'm very excited to dive in with you today. Welcome. Oh, Kris, it is such an honor to be here. And what a great full circle moment, right? Because the two of us met when you were on my podcast so long ago, and we became, you know, very fast friends. And it's so much fun to see. You fulfilling another goal of yours, and I'm just so honored to be here. Thank you so much. Every time we talk, it's whether it's on a podcast or off a podcast, we get right to the heart of things, right? That we don't have a lot of room for fluff and niceties. We like to get to the meat. So I want to start by asking you. Uh, to share with my audience what it is that you do, how do you serve your clients? \[00:01:00\] Yes. So I love to help specifically service based entrepreneurs, solopreneurs manifest consistent five bigger months without constant overwhelm and without constant overthinking. So really I help people get out of their own stinking way. It's like I'm a butt buster really. It's like, what are the barriers? What are the obstacles? What are the self imposed limits that we have? And then how can I help you navigate through and around them so that you can stop making excuses for yourself and actually start to prove to yourself what you're capable of. And. It's so much fun because there's so many people that I, that I meet and I serve that have this heart for service. They have this heart for impact, but they have so much going on because they have such a great need for impact that they want to get there like yesterday. And they're adding so much to their plate and they're starting to overthink everything because things aren't working as well as they thought. And it's just so much fun to help them figure out how they can throughout that stuff. Um, tell me, what's like, what are the biggest shifts that you witness in your clients? Like, real world, real world stories? No, I \[00:02:00\] think that one of the things that I've noticed is a sense of peace. So people think that they want to just show up and they want to manifest this money so they can buy this or buy that, but really what it is is comes down to having a life that they don't have now, right? It's having a space to spend more time with family. It's having the opportunity. It's having the peace and the calmness knowing that their bills are being, you know, met and exceeded and they can give and live like no one else. And so when I can teach people how to create impact without having to give up their peace, without having to constantly be shitting on themselves, without having to constantly second guess themselves and allow perfectionism to get in the way and just get into flow and ease and joy and fun again, everything starts to click. And so that's really been one of the, the biggest. Changes I've seen in my clients. It's just this demeanor changes because I think that so oftentimes, especially higher achievers like myself, we want to just force things. We feel like we just have to put in more \[00:03:00\] hours captive to add more things to our to do list. We have to, to continue to. To push that, that ball up the hill, if that's, if that makes sense. And what I love for how people do is realize that they can actually accomplish more with less by just allowing themselves to stay in high vibration, allowing themselves to work with the God current, allowing themselves to just do what they're good at and what they love doing and figuring out how we can make the rest work. And so that's, that's been so fulfilling, you know. I love that. I, I liken that to as entrepreneurs, sometimes we get stuck in fifth gear and we're like moving at a fast rate and in forward movement. Non stop and sometimes, I just know for myself, sometimes I forget to downshift and how necessary that is in order to open up for inspiration, guidance, refuel, get clarity. So then when we're taking action again, we're actually not spinning our wheels and just doing to do, we're actually doing things more strategically. \[00:04:00\] Um, one thing I know about you is that, uh, well, a couple of things, but the first one I want to dive into is you have some really, really unique tools for giving your clients and yourself a leg up when it comes to getting into that high vibration and staying in that high vibration. High vibration. So tell tell me more about that. Yeah. Well, okay. So I'm just gonna answer your question by just like geeking out real quick here So there are four steps to manifesting you guys and when I say manifesting It really is to allow things to come to fruition so that we can see in this physical world evidence of God's promises evidence of you know what we desire and I love the analogy. Kris, if it's okay, I'm going to share this little story that I absolutely love the movie Finding Nemo. It's a, it was a staple when my son was little. And there's a scene where Dory is, you know, just keep swimming, just keep swimming. And I think that that's what a lot of us do in business and in life. Really. We just try to slap on a \[00:05:00\] smile and we just keep. Swim in, keep swimming, and keep telling ourselves that we got this, just keep swimming. But there was a really pivotal moment in this movie where they met Crush the Turtle, and Crush the Turtle's like, hey dudes, all you need to do is get into the EAC, and that current will shoot you right into Sydney. And I believe that that's What can happen when we tap into the universal laws that God created to govern the entire universe. And it's that allowing ease and flow and working smarter, not harder to happen because we allow ourselves to work with law in order to let things manifest without us pushing and forcing. Okay. So I wanted to just clarify that there's four steps to making that happen. All right. Number one is that you have to have a clear idea of what you want. So if you don't know what the heck you're ordering from the universal vending machine, the universe cannot deliver that thing. It's just like ordering a steak. Do you want a steak from, you know, the local gas station's freezer department? Or do you want to go to Ruth's Kris and have it, you know, medium well, you have to be able to know exactly what you want. The second step is to be able to know exactly that it is on its way \[00:06:00\] without doubt. And you have this beautiful, thankful expectation that it's on its way. This is really where we delineate between God will and God can. And then the third step is to getting into inspired action. It is the doing part. This is the part that allows us to receive the manifestation. And then the fourth step to that is being in and staying in high vibration. And that is really what allows us to attract from the law of vibration. Okay. Now, staying in high vibes sounds like a great. Great, um, idea. Great, great theory, right? I don't know about you, Kris, but there are days where I wake up and I'm like, Oh my gosh, the sun is shining! I got to sleep in a little bit late. Like, everybody's doing good. Like, I can't wait to have a great day. And then, something happens. The client cancels on you, or You know, my husband gets a flat tire or whatever the case may be. It's really, really easy for us to say that we're going to stay in high vibes until life gets hard, right? And so what I want to do is teach people this resiliency piece, but having the science, the quantum physics that's wrapped around it. to understand why it's important to be \[00:07:00\] resilient, why it's important to stay in high vibration, because what happens is our body, um, I'm going to break this down a little bit. Our body has this beautiful way of creating energy based on our thoughts and therefore our feelings. Okay, so our thoughts create our feelings and our feelings, according to researchers at MRT, can actually impact the Speed in which the electrons in our atoms and our body are rotating. So the higher the frequency, the higher correlation to positive emotions that I have. The lower the frequency, the correlation to the lower, um, vibration emotions like sadness, despair, hopelessness, the higher vibrations, the higher emotions being love, joy, peace, gratitude, freedom. You can tell that even when I describe that, my voice actually got a little bit higher pitched and a little bit faster just because that's how my body is. Energetic shift happened just with the thought and the feeling that was associated with that. Okay, now what happens with with Our thoughts that create our feelings is that our body starts to vibrate at a different frequency \[00:08:00\] This is how the law of vibration works. Things are going to be in alignment with the frequency of the vibration. If you can, if you can think back, Kris, I know that you and I are, you know, approximately the same generation. So you might remember Casey Kasem back in the day. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be sitting in my little bedroom in Minnesota and I'd be, you know, listening to Casey Case and I'm ready to hit record on my mixtape. And I'm like, how in the heck can I listen to this guy in LA all the way over in my little rural Minnesota town? And it's because I was tapped into the frequency of his radio station. That's how this works. And so when I can stay in high vibrations, I allow myself to align with the frequency of Not only the material things, Kris, but it's the ideas, it's the conversations, it's the people, it's relationships. And I'm going to give you a couple of examples of that. I was, you know, um. Working my full time anesthesia career, but really wanted to take the dive into entrepreneurship and it wasn't until I quit my job that I really realized that I'm like, Oh gosh, like I \[00:09:00\] better make sure I like this because I just made a big, you know, big change. And I remember thinking, Oh my goodness. Like, what is my thing? Like, what is the thing that like, picks me up? What is the thing that I can do that other people can't do? And I was like. Rantically like forcing this answer. I'm like praying, like, God, just reveal it to me. Like trying to ask people questions and all this stuff. And all I was doing, Kris, was I was realigning my realigning myself with the frequency of the problem, instead of allowing myself to release that resistance and take myself to a higher vibration where the solution was living. Long story short, we went on a dream trip with my family, um, road trip through Colorado and Utah and all the beautiful national parks. And I literally, because I was in high vibrations, I was in, you know, the best, best time of my life. The download to my spiral up program just came out of nowhere. Oh my gosh. And so when we release that and allow ourselves to stay in high vibration, that we can essentially tap into the God frequency, tap into all the answers that are available to us by the creator of the universe and allow \[00:10:00\] ourselves to stop forcing it. But allow ourselves to receive it. And I just had this happen, you know, within the last couple of days where I just happened to mention to a couple of people that, you know, I want to do things a little bit differently with my next book. And, and before I know it, I'm getting literally like people sending me text messages, like, Hey, Lachelle. I have this patient who does this and I told him about you and here's his contact information or hey, have you ever met this guy? And I'm like, oh my gosh, like I have three books on my shelf from him. Oh, well, you should meet him. I'll connect you. I'm like, what the heck? These conversations, these people, this, these ideas are all aligning because I've allowed myself to get in those vibrations. And going, you probably. Also wanted to know a little bit about how I do that. Cause I think that was your original question. Yeah. Oh, I'd love to. Yeah. But this is great context. So I really appreciate you diving in. So I think, you know, there's a couple of tools that I use. Um, number one is just recognizing that our thoughts create our feelings. And so our thoughts are therefore the, the beautiful \[00:11:00\] instigator, right. Of the vibration that our body can have. So really capturing your thoughts and not capturing them from a. You know, uh, I should have and guilt and shame around having thoughts, but more of a curiosity and having fun with it. Like, oh my goodness, you little stinker. I just caught you again. And now I'm going to get you into what I want. Okay. So that's just recognizing that we have the power to do that. The second thing that I utilize all the time is actually a quantum physics software that I use on my phone and my computer. That can shift me into the frequency that I want. It also has this ability to analyze 10 seconds of my voice. So I do a voice recording once, if not twice a day, and it will give me a prescription of musical tones that I can listen to that will balance out my emotions. Remember, the more I can control my emotions, the more that I can control my vibration. The more that I control my vibration, the more that I can control the things that I can manifest. And so, not only does that technology allow me to do that, I'm also able to do little things inside of it, like record affirmations that are able to get into my subconscious without the \[00:12:00\] subconscious barrier. And so, when I can utilize tools to help keep my vibration up. That's huge. That's absolutely huge. Um, there's two more things I'll mention. One is making sure that you surround yourself with people that are high of vibration, um, who is in your circle. There is everything from scripture to, you know, the infamous quote by Jim Rohn that we are the, the result of the five people we spend the most time with. And so, If you are about around a bunch of debbie downers who don't value growth, they, they think everything is hopeless. They think you're weird for doing whatever you're doing. It's going to rub off on you because of residence energy. Their energy is going to create a drop in yours. And so be really aware of who you're spending your time with. And then the last thing that I do, Kris, and this is kind of, I think one of the. The most unique things that I teach with my specific clients is I teach them how to tap in to their own universal guidance. I really make it clear that my clients are not meant to rely on me. They're not meant to look outside of \[00:13:00\] themselves for any guru. I teach them how to create within them a trust in the discernment that they are getting from. Higher intelligence source energy, you know, God in my, in my, um, my vocabulary. And so when you can start to acknowledge that you can actually learn how to ask yes, no questions. And get answers are going to guide you and the thing that's so interesting, and I know we're talking about vibration, but one of the biggest problems that I see with my clients have that they are not even aware of is that their business is stalled because of their inability to make decisions. Their decisions are blocked because they have fears preventing them from taking bold steps. Their decisions are blocked because they have insecurities and imposter syndromes preventing them from charging what they're supposed to charge. You know, those are just a couple examples. And so when I can teach people how to, to tap into God through their subconscious and through their body, There is no wrong answer, and there is no way that they can \[00:14:00\] mess it up, and there is no way that perfectionism can get in the way, and when we do that, we release the resistance, we allow for us to flow with what it is that's supposed to happen, and things just start clicking, and it's like this massive cool domino effect. So let's, let's, let's break it down. So what, like when your clients have big fears like that, like I know a lot of my clients struggle with imposter syndrome or they have like money mindset stuff going on, what, how do you help your clients really on a tangible level overcome those fears? Yeah, absolutely. So I think that the first thing is really just acknowledging, like helping them see where they're stuck because you can't fix what you don't acknowledge. And I think that a lot of times people just assume that they just need another strategy. And so I've had the privilege of working with you. You are unbelievably talented, Kris. One of the things that I've seen over and over again is that people. Look for strategy, \[00:15:00\] they look for people to tell them what to do, they look for people to tell them what their program should look like, or what it should cost, or, or what their social media strategy should look like, and then. They don't execute it. I remember being in the same situation. I hired this coach several years ago and I was talking to her about a VIP day that I wanted to do, and she's like, I want you to charge, I think it was at the time, like 5, 000. I'm like, I could never charge that. And I remember talking to my husband later that night and he's like, you could never charge that. So I went to somebody with the worst money mindset than I did for the advice. And then I had this acknowledgement. I'm like. I am paying her to tell me what to do. And she knows me both my strengths and my weaknesses, and she's telling me I should do this. And so it's being able to recognize like, this is what I want to do. Why am I not doing it? Right. Right. And I, it's that, um, the, the iceberg metaphor, right? You've got the portion of the iceberg above the water, but really the majority of it is under the water, and that's really driving \[00:16:00\] our beliefs and our decisions, our ability to move forward, and that, that, that stuff, if it's not, you know, supportive, will really weigh you down. 100%. And I think that, again, people will Instinctively search for strategy. I just need to sign up for this 30 day social media planner. I just need to get this this coach session planner that's going to tell me exactly what to do. I just need to have this person create on my website copy, right? But if we don't have the underlying root Stuff figured out. You're not going to be able to execute the strategy to the level of success that it's meant to do because you are not just what you do, friend. You are who you are while you do it. And so it's really this, this beautiful, this beautiful synchronicity between all of these, these parts of the puzzle that create your success and your ability to continue to grow. And I think a lot of people confuse manifesting with, you know, this idea that I can just like \[00:17:00\] You know, press a button on this, you know, God size vending machine and a Ferrari is going to show up in my driveway. Like, it doesn't work that way. You have to follow the four steps that I mentioned. But it's also important that you understand that you can manifest a million dollars tomorrow. But if you have the mindset underneath the hood. ready for that wealth, you are not going to keep it, which is why so many lotto winners do not stay wealthy. You have to have those areas really tightened up in order for you to not only manifest, but to keep in your abundance frequency and be able to continue to manifest that. And I've identified seven things that my clients have that hold them back. And it sometimes is one, sometimes the combination of them. But, um, once we get that Figure it out like any strategy is going to work. It's, it's amazing. It really is amazing. I'm always blown away by that study around lottery winners and how They solved their money problems. They got all this money and then I \[00:18:00\] think it's within about a year They're back to where they were before And it truly is because they don't think of themselves as somebody who has money and enjoys money And then inevitably the vibration recalibrates, right? And then they're back right where they started. It's really, really fascinating. Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, like I tie in, so my kind of secret thoughts and all that I do is this combination of quantum physics, brain science, and scripture. I feel like when we can have this intersection of those most powerful things, we can, we can do amazing things. And if you think about the, the scripture that says, as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. It's really that acknowledgement between your thoughts and your feelings, your thoughts and your heart. And when those two can come together. That's when you are being who you need to be. And it's about being so that you can do and then have, right? And so if there's a discrepancy between the thought and the feeling. So if I say, \[00:19:00\] um, I'm a million dollar earner, but in my gut, I'm like, Ooh, that, you know, wealth is greedy, or I'm going to be alone. If that happens to me, or I have to work too hard to make that happen or all those things. So, so inside they have a. is misaligned with that thought, they're going to manifest the feeling part of it, not the thought part of it. We have to have congruence between the two. Yeah. Yeah. This reminds me of a client that I worked with named Andrea and she hired me to write her story and we revamped her website and got her signature story really dialed in, which of course is what she hired me to do. And what happened was, and I think what my clients don't realize is kind of the strategic byproduct of my work, the invisible one, is that all of a sudden they have the words to communicate what they do. And through, through the process of working together, they really begin to see the power of their \[00:20:00\] work and believe it. Like they get it. What she shared was just like, I finally got it on a cellular level, the power of the work that I do. And when, when that happens, we fill up with confidence. And when that happens for her, she would get on, on the phone with clients and she was close. She was at about a 20 percent close rate. So she was. Getting two clients for every 10 discovery calls that she booked once She really understood the power of her work and the importance of it. She showed up to the calls differently Yes, she had the words also to communicate that but deeper than that It was more like the confidence that she knew The value of the work that she did and her close rate went up to 95%. So for every phone call, she got on every 10 phone calls. She got 9. 5 clients, um, which is kind of mind blowing. And it's such a tangible example of what can happen. \[00:21:00\] Um, kind of the combo of like, you think you need something external. You need to either do it yourself or have one, have someone do it for you. But ultimately, if you're choosing the right thing, you're choosing something that will help you internally up level and really stand strong in the work that you do, because, you know, my clients typically are doing the work they're put on the planet to do, like they're purposeful or driven. They love their work. If they do not want to sell, nobody wants to sell. It feels. Uncomfortable, but when you can really stand strong and the power of the work you do it. You don't have to sell. It's really just conversation to connect and that person can self select if they want to solve the problem. Problem that you can solve for them and you also are you're you're interviewing them, too Like you don't want to take every client that comes your way you want to be \[00:22:00\] very selective about who you surround your energy with who you who you Who you work with because we want to attract those right fit clients. The wrong fit clients were never meant With us anyway, so are so right on is that your process people come to you right for something copywriting on their website clarity and messaging on their website, but what they get from you is so much more. And I love how your process actually I can think of every single one of my seven pillars as an example of that. You you touch on in some way inside of your process, because what I find is that if you have A I kind of create this circle, the circle that creates success, right? And so if you have these seven data points that are around making the integrity of the circle, if you have a, a weak part in any one of those seven circles, it decreases the integrity of that circle and your circle collapses. Right. And so then say, Hey, like, here's, here's what you should \[00:23:00\] have. But if they don't have that clarity of that message, which you help them with. Then they're not going to be able to articulate. They're not going to be able to get them a sales calls if they don't have the confidence belief that they are actually able to deliver. Cause that's one of the biggest fears that I get from clients is that they're afraid that I don't want to be such a good sales person that I'm selling a bill of goods. That is not what I'm telling them it is because I don't believe. That I am worthy of what I'm charging, or I don't believe that I'm really good at what I do, or I don't believe that I can get the results that I'm promising. And so people need to be able to understand underneath what makes them special, what unique gifts and talents and passions and life skills and experiences that they've had. That makes them the absolute perfect guide on the journey that you help them discover who they can serve as a hero and that they own their part as the perfect guide for this situation. And I think that, you know, courage is one of my seven pillars as well. And \[00:24:00\] if I have this fear of sales, Again, I'm going to come into that sales call. Not what I do is who I am while I do it. And so I can have the script, but if I don't believe in what I'm saying, if I don't, if I don't believe that I'm worthy of saying no to somebody who's maybe not the good fit, then the sales script is not going to help me. And so it's really just being able to build on all of those things, which is exactly what you do. Exactly. Yes, that's true. I know the work that we do is so as, as my partner would say, the Venn diagram is deep. There's a lot of beautiful overlap there. You've mentioned your seven pillars and I remember working with you on your website with this spiral, beautiful visual that you created in, in Canva of these pillars. And, um, I'd like to hear about the pillars. What are they? Absolutely. So as you mentioned, you know, my, my company, um, signature product is spiral up because I believe that if we can \[00:25:00\] allow for massive forward momentum, we can create massive, beautiful change and impact in the world. Right. But there's so many things, Kris, that impact us, that create situations where we start to spiral down. And if we go back to the beginning of our conversation, our vibration lowers. And we therefore are not attracting what we want or we're attracting what we don't want because we're always manifesting. Okay. And so I built out these pillars, these spiral up, um, essentially core, core pieces in a very strategic manner because I want to help people get to the root cause of what's holding them back and to prepare them for what is to come. Because here's the deal again, I can help you manifest. But I need to help you stay and be able to expand upon that. And so even if you think you're good, we usually can find some cracks in, in some of these. So the very first one, Kris, is recognizing the power of choice. This is when we can take ownership for our life and our decisions and what's good and \[00:26:00\] bad in our lives. And we can say, hey, I am no longer allowing myself to give up my power to any person, place, or thing outside of myself. I'm allowing myself to accept the law of cause and effect that I am first cause, that me, myself, and I are able to change my life in the trajectory that I want it to go. The moment that I take my power back, the moment that I acknowledge that I am the solution. The moment that I acknowledge that I'm going to look for solutions to rise above my circumstances rather than to become victim to it. That is the very first shift that has to make, be made. If you can't make that happen, then none of these are going to work. And so I will tell you guys that as you, if you're, I don't know, Kris, if we're recording over a video or just audio, but I have a lot of them. And I will tell you that every single one of them, every podcast I listen to, every conversation I have with somebody that's, you know, has their act together. Has one common theme, and that's that successful people do not allow themselves to be victim to their circumstances. They figure out a way to rise above, and so I want you to recognize that as a very, very important foundation to this, okay? \[00:27:00\] The second one is confidence. You have to believe that it's possible for you. Not that it's possible for anybody, but for you, and that you have to be able to get rid of any stinking thinking, any mindset, limiting beliefs that have been, been sucked into your background. Okay. And this is the thing that's really fascinating because I study brain science. I study, I have an anesthesia background, so I love the human body as well. And I've discovered working with my clients, Kris, it's so fascinating that I've discovered limiting beliefs. That have been inherited by family members. I've taken clients through processes where we've been able to identify the exact moment that the limiting belief was formed and that moment was their grandma in her kitchen when she was 30 years old, literally describing to me what her grandma's kitchen looked like, but it was different than what she remembered and she was looking out the window and could see her young grandpa. Who is going away on business and the grandma was feeling like she couldn't say that she was unhappy, that she didn't deserve better, that she was \[00:28:00\] just supposed to grin and bear it, and that belief was literally passed on to her mom. And then her and the moment that we were able to pluck that belief out like a weed and plant it with the seeds of truth, not only did she heal, but it helped her mom and her kids. And so you guys, like, this is, this is foundational. Okay. Third one is clarity. You have to be able to know. What makes you special? You have to be able to know who you serve, especially if you're in business. Most of my clients are solopreneurs. So you have to know who your avatar is and what makes you special. And I really utilize lots of external techniques to help people understand like, Holy crap, Lachelle. I never saw myself like that. And I never knew that I could believe in myself like this. And that's so important. Okay. You guys, um. It's also the part of that when they learn how to make decisions, they learn how to, to not get stuck in fear and perfectionism and people pleasing and codependency that are impacting their decision making. It's really being able to take that decision from a place of power versus being \[00:29:00\] powerless, okay? Connectedness is another one of my C's, and this one is just acknowledging that you are not alone. I remember I had a client, um, conversation once where she and I were talking and she's like, Oh, I just feel like so much pressure, Lachelle. I feel like there's so much pressure for me to fulfill this, this calling. I believe I have in my life. And I asked her, I said, Hey, what percentage do you think you own in this? And what percentage do you think God has? And she's like, I don't know, like 50%. So I'm like, you're telling me that 50 percent is on you and the other 50 percent is on the creator of the entire universe. That's a powerful question. Right? And so I'm like, let me work with God. Let me get into the EAC. Let me. Know that I can ask him for guidance and then I teach them how to ask yes, no questions so that I can say, should I work with this client? Yes or no. Should I do this on my to do list? Yes or no. Should I sign up for this coaching? Yes or no. Should I hire this person? Yes or no. \[00:30:00\] And when you can do that, you start to stop holding all the weight of the world on your shoulders and start to acknowledge the fact that you are on this beautiful journey with a supernatural business partner who wants to help you. And when you can tap into the knower of all knowing, you are not in this alone, and the pressure just melts off, and it's unbelievable. That's that piece that I was talking about before. The next pillar is courage. It's that acknowledging what we're afraid of. And when you understand the, the anatomy and the physiology of fear, you can actually face any fear. From the same perspective and overcome it doesn't matter what that fear is. It can be that fear of picking up the phone and calling somebody or it can be the fear of spiders. It doesn't matter because the anatomy and physiology fear is the same. And so we are able to acknowledge what fear is for, for you and then how to overcome it once and for all. And once you know how to do that, then you can do that same process with any fear, which is amazing. Wow. The next one is all about consistency. This is getting into action. Remember the third step to manifesting is taking inspired \[00:31:00\] action. And so this is you doing what you said you were going to do. This is you building the habits. This is you building the successful traits that a winner does in order to continue to, to create and to manifest. And then the very last one is conquer. And this is where I help people build that resiliency so that we can stay in high vibration. Even when. Things get hard, even when business is not what I thought it was, even when my husband doesn't believe in my vision and thinks that I'm wackadoo because I quit my job, you know, he did it. My husband did it, but, but my point is that like, this happens, you guys, your mom thinks you're crazy because you got your doctorate. Now you're quitting that and you're doing all your own things. Like these are real things. And I want people to be able to have all the tools at the foundation. So that as you continue to spiral up, as you continue to meet new levels of who you were built to be, you have those places of solid foundation in order to navigate that, and you can prove to yourself what you're capable of. \[00:32:00\] Oh my gosh. Now, are you gonna start your own church? Because I would like to attend. Oh boy. I might, I might say too many swear words to be Well, you're gonna attract a certain kind of congregation and I'm totally on board with, with swear words. So that is so beautiful. It's so thoughtful. I'm curious. I have two more questions for you one I want to like circle back to that moment that you were on this road trip with your family having the time of your life You you were you stopped pushing for answers right and you were in having joy Distracted by fun. Do you remember the moment that you got that download? Yeah, we were on a hike in the National Park. Oh my gosh. You know, hiking away in my own thoughts, enjoying, enjoying the sun, enjoying the fact that my family was with me. And I just was just thinking and all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my gosh, like that's it. And because I had been \[00:33:00\] really pushing, pushing, pushing, praying for an answer. Um, I had just read the book, 10x is easier than 2x by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. It's a great book. And they talked about how you can scale by focusing on the 20 percent of what you do really, really well and letting everybody else do the rest. Right. And I'm like, what's my thing you're so good at is helping people figure that out. Right. But I'm like, what's my thing? And I'm like, Lord, what is my thing? What's my thing? And I know I can do a lot, but just because we can't, it doesn't mean we should. What people don't realize is that just like, you know, I'm going to hold up my cell phone, you guys, so there's a front and a back to my cell phone, they both exist at the same time, and just because Kris can see the back of my cell phone does not mean that the front doesn't exist, right? That's the law of supply and demand, so as soon as there is a demand, the supply automatically is created, okay? So the supply and the demand are both existing at the exact same time, just because I can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, okay? So what I was doing, again, is I was realigning myself with the problem and the \[00:34:00\] frequency of the problem. What should I do? What haven't I thought of? Who could I talk to? All these things. And then the moment that I allowed myself to just chill the heck out, It was like, Oh, I'm really good at connecting, which is why I have all these experts as part of my program. Kris is one of them. I'm really good at helping people see their blind spots and their barriers and solutions to that, which is what I get people, you know, to do. I get them past where they're stuck. And when I started to acknowledge that I came back, Kris, this is crazy. So this road trip was two weeks long. We came back on a Saturday. I had a live launch scheduled on Tuesday, three days later. that I was going to launch a completely different program. Came back on Saturday, launched on Tuesday, but I decided, screw that, I'm going to launch what I just came up with. And I launched my new program that I had just come up with. Five figure launch. Wow. As the plane was taken off. I made lots of, you know, mad calls to my expert friends that I'm like, all right, this is my vision. Are you in? \[00:35:00\] Yup. Let's do this. And we just did it because here's the thing, you guys remember, I told you that, that we have to have those four steps of manifesting. I had the vision. I had the vision that I wanted to help people and I wanted to be able to work from anywhere. Okay. I wanted the vision. And I knew that it was on its way because God showed it to me on that, on that download. And then, and what happens is so many people, they don't trust her to submit or they poo poo those downloads. Instead, what you have to do is you'd have to take inspired, aligned action. So when you have that out of the blue idea, you have to actually do something with it. And that is when you expect with Thanksgiving. This is my, my belief in action, because if I didn't think that it was going to work, I wouldn't have launched it three days later, I had to take that brave inspired action and God rewarded me. For that. And I, Kris, I mean, I quit my job and in September of 2022, I make way more money than I've ever made in my entire life, more than my full time anesthesia career, I work from home, \[00:36:00\] I get to spend time with my kids, I'm traveling the world, I mean, I'm so grateful, but I had to be able to follow these steps. And so that's. That's a little bit of background. So oh my gosh, what an inspiring story. All right. As we, as we wrap up today, um, I keep adding more questions to, to my plan because this has been such a great conversation. Um, no, you really help. You really help your clients. Overcome the blocks, get out of the grind, get out of the hustle, and move into openness and abundance and, uh, clarity. Most people that I work with do their work because they've walked that path themselves. And I'm curious, like, is part of your passion around this based on the fact that you've walked a similar journey, kind of figured it out, and now you're ready to show other people how to do that? That's a \[00:37:00\] great question. So, um, yes and no. So, I actually, behind me, I have a copy of my book, that my latest book that I wrote. It's called Get Out of God's Way. Um, get over yourself and step into the life and purpose that he has for you. And so, one of the things that I've had to acknowledge myself is that I get in my own way all the time, you guys. I still struggle sometimes with fears and, and lack of belief in myself. And that is evidence. That I'm spiraling up and I'm leveling up because each time we get to a new evolution of who we are meant to be, we're going to bump up against old bruises. And so I want to make sure that I'm very clear that this is not a, I did it and now it's done situation. It is that once you are spiraling up, remember we're moving, we're moving in upwards form. Every time I kind of round that bend and I bump up against that old bruise. That old piece of imposter syndrome or that old money mindset, you know, snag that I've had, I'll still bump up against it and I'll notice it. But here's the, this is the difference. You'll notice it faster and you will overcome it faster. And so each step of the way you're going to \[00:38:00\] continue to recognize things faster. You're like, Oh, I'm going to, this works better last time. And I'm going to keep going up. Okay. So absolutely 100%, everything that I teach are things that I've had to learn. But the other thing that I'm just going to say is that. When I started my first online business was in 2016, and I had the privilege of leading and coaching so many men and women, Kris, and there's one story in particular that, that I keep come back to all the time. And this was this woman who, you know. Wanted my help. And I remember us sitting in this coffee spot and she was telling me about her dreams. She was like, Oh my gosh, Lachelle, when I get this business going, I'm going to retire my fiance and one of the things I would love to do is live on Lake Superior, Northern Minnesota someday, like, Oh my gosh, that's beautiful. She told me about these beautiful dreams and was such articulation. And she ended up posting about her business, like a couple of days later on social media. And her brother commented making fun of her and she completely shut down. She never posted about her business again, and she gave up on all of her dreams. And \[00:39:00\] so if you were to ask me what my calling is in the world, I'm going to best describe it as the parable of the servants. So if you've heard this story before, you know, that this master leaves town and he gives. Three servants, a very big number of coins while he's gone. The first two servants take their coins. They reinvest them. The master comes back and he's like, way to go. Good job. Well done. Good and faithful servant. You reinvested and you, you expanded what I gave you. Nice job. The third guy. Instead buried his coins because he was so afraid of losing them and the master came back and he's like, man, you could have at least invested this in the bank and gotten the interest. Like you didn't do anything with what I gave you. And I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be the one who. Was given this very unique set of skills and life experiences and strengths and passions and didn't do anything with it. And it's like, I'm the person who's also standing next to the third guy. And I'm like, give me that shovel. I want to help you figure out how to use those talents \[00:40:00\] because I don't want any of them to go to waste. I want you to be able to hear well done, good and faithful servant. I want you to be able to know that you. 100 percent lived your capability, that you did everything that you were, you were equipped to do, and that you made the world a better place because you were here. And so it's really just my own experience, but also just walking alongside so many people. I have this like, I don't know. It's a gift and a curse at the same time. I see potential in everything. It drives some people crazy because I can see this old house. I'll be like, Oh, this is what I would do the kitchen. This is what I would do. I can do that with furniture. I can do that with clothing. I can do that with people. This is what you don't see. This is what we could do. Right? And so the hard part about that is when I see potential that's unmet and I know that there are ways for us to make it better so that there are no regrets. Then that's what I want to be able to do. Wow. I'm just going to like pause for a moment and let that sink in. \[00:41:00\] So incredibly beautiful. Lachelle, thank you for coming today. I have no doubt that this message is going to reach so many people and inspire so many people. And my final, final question, I'm going to throw you a curve ball. What's the next tattoo that you're going to get with your dad? You know, he says he's one and done. My sister wants to get a tattoo with him because she's jealous. And he's like, no, I got, I got my tattoo. So what did you get? What did you guys get together? What was that? So his, so we, they're not matching. Um, so background was so, so I love Nashville. It's like my favorite place to visit. And my 40th birthday, I decided that I wanted to take my dad who loves country music. So that has been a thing that we do now every single year is I take my dad and my mom and my husband to Nashville and we have a great time. So the last time we were there, my dad and I both got a tattoo, his very first one. And he got a four legged John Deere because he restores old tractors. And I, what did I get this last time? I think I got a \[00:42:00\] cross. I don't even remember. It was so much fun because, yeah, the two of us just went and had a blast and my sister was so jealous because she didn't get to have that experience with them. Oh my gosh, that's such a good story. All right. So Lachelle, where can people find you? Yes, I keep it really simple, even though my name is not. So, so my name is Lachelle, and it's L A C H E L L E, and then my last name is Weemie, so W I E M E. You can find me at LachelleWeemie. com. You can find me, Lachelle Weemie, on, on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn. All the places, I just keep it simple and have it in my name, so, um, yeah, you guys are totally, you can find my book on Amazon, and I have a free, um, workbook that goes along with it right on my website, and, yeah, there's all kinds of fun ways you guys can connect with me. And you guys, and you have a masterclass, don't you? A free masterclass on your website? Yes! So I have this very, \[00:43:00\] um, Long thought out lived experience, um, that I've created a method that helps people manifest and it's called the flow state money method, and it's really just how to manifest consistent five figure months with less overwhelm and less overthinking. And I talk about how to do that and how to apply that method in this masterclass that I created. It's called burnout to breakthrough, and you guys can access it for free on my website. And Kris, I am feeling a little generous today. Is it okay if I offer something else? Oh, please. Yeah. Well, you guys, normally I charge 25 for a voice analysis that will give you the, um, emotions that you are out of range with and that prescription music to get you back so that you can vibrate at a higher frequency. And I am willing to give it to your listeners, Kris, for, for free. If they just, I'll make sure that you get the link and they can certainly apply to, to get one of those done because it is. Unbelievably powerful. So, wow. Thank you, Lachelle. We will put that link in the show notes. So anybody who \[00:44:00\] wants to take advantage of that generous offer, you can find that in the show notes. So thank you. Thank you so much. It's been such a joy. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/why-your-website-losing-customers-how-to-fix-it ### Title: Why Your Website is Losing Customers (And How to Fix It) ### Page ID: 7394729 ### Content: # Why Your Website is Losing Customers (And How to Fix It) Why Your Website is Losing Customers (And How to Fix It) Picture this: A potential client lands on your website during their lunch break. They’re scrolling on their phone, looking for someone who *gets it*—someone who can solve their problem. That’s it. Seven seconds to prove you understand their challenge and can help. Most service providers blow it. And in my latest solo episode, I reveal exactly why. While you're listing credentials and talking about yourself, your ideal clients are thinking, *“This isn’t for me”*—and quietly clicking away. ? In this episode, I break down the 4 fatal website traps: ? **The Brochure Trap** – Acting like a static business card ? **The Copy Struggle Trap** – Being too close to see what makes you unique ?‍♂️ **The Hero Trap** – Making it all about you instead of them Here’s the good news: the fix is simpler than you think. It starts with one shift—make *them* the hero, and step into your role as the guide. Show them you understand their world, have a plan to help, and back it up with results. ✨ One clear, flowing page beats five confusing ones. ? [**Listen to the full episode here**](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-19-why-your-website-is-losing-customers-and-how-to-fix-it/id1787187223?i=1000701694230) to learn the exact framework that turns websites into client magnets. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. I'm going to share something that might surprise you. Your website has just seven seconds to capture someone's attention. That's right. Seven seconds to show a potential client you understand their problems and can help them solve them. Think about how you browse websites on your phone. You do a quick scroll, a quick decision. If you don't immediately see what you're looking for, you're gone, right? If you don't see what you're looking for right away, you're gone. Here's what most client based business owners get wrong. They fill their websites with credentials, years of experience, and detailed service descriptions. But here's the truth. Your potential clients don't care about any of that. \[00:01:00\] What they care about is feeling understood. They want to know you get their challenges and have a clear path to help them solve their problem. Let me walk you through the four fatal traps that are costing you clients right now. First, the brochure website trap. This is when your website acts like a digital business card. Lots of information, but no clear path to action.It's like walking into a networking event and immediately listing your resume to everyone you meet. Would that work? Of course not. second, the copy struggle trap. When you're too close to your own business, it's like trying to read the label when you're on the inside of the bottle. You can't see what makes you unique because you're just too close to it. The third trap is the hero trap. This happens when you make your website. All about you instead of about your client. Remember your potential clients don't want another hero. They want a guide who can help them become the hero of their own story. And finally, there's the more is more marketing trap. Here's what happens. Most service providers think a professional website \[00:02:00\] needs multiple pages, lengthy explanations, and a packed navigation menu. but every additional page on your website becomes a mental hurdle for your potential clients. Think about it. They have to decide which page to click, which service to read about, which blog posts might be relevant. they're using up valuable mental energy making choices when they should be focused on one decision, whether or not to work with you. But there's good news. The solution is simpler than you think. It starts with a simple shift. Position your client as the hero and yourself as their guide. Show them you understand their challenges, have a clear plan to help them succeed, and prove it with testimonials and real client results. here's your quick path to action. Create one flowing page instead of multiple pages on your website. Lead with client challenges, not your credentials. And always offer a clear next step. What's the next step you want them to take in order to work with you? if you want some help implementing these changes, I've written an entire book \[00:03:00\] about this transformation. Visit reddoorstories. com to get your copy and schedule a call to discuss how we can make your website work harder for your business. Remember, you've got seven seconds. Make them count. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/sales-conversations-that-convert-nicole-cramer ### Title: Beyond Transactions: Building Client Relationships That Convert with Nicole Cramer ### Page ID: 7394735 ### Content: # Beyond Transactions: Building Client Relationships That Convert with Nicole Cramer Beyond Transactions: Building Client Relationships That Convert with Nicole Cramer Think about it—when someone lands on your website or hops on a discovery call, most of us immediately go for the big commitment. The six-month program. The full package. The whole enchilada. But in my latest episode, sales expert Nicole Cramer dropped a truth bomb that flipped the script: **The fastest way to speed up a sale… is to slow it down.** ? Why *“professional mind-maker-uppers”* succeed where pushy salespeople fail ? The exact 9-step discovery call template she uses every time ⚡ How one client went from six months of crickets to six figures—in one week Nicole says our job isn’t to sell. It’s to help people make confident buying decisions. That one shift removes all the pressure—and replaces it with real connection. **“People see a better version of themselves in us. They want to buy that better version.”** ? [**Listen to the full episode here**](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-21-beyond-transactions-building-client-relationships/id1787187223?i=1000703565120) to learn how slowing down your sales process speeds up your results. When you show up as a guide instead of a desperate salesperson, everything changes. Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. welcome to the show, Nicole Cramer I am so thrilled to have you here. We had a conversation a few weeks ago and completely and totally hit it off, and I think our Venn diagram diagrams are very deep in overlap in the way that we work with our clients. So I am thrilled for you to be here today.  Kris Thanks for having me. I know this is gonna be a fun conversation.  Kris: So what is your, like, how do you answer the question? What do you do if somebody like happened upon you at a coffee shop and I said, Hey, what do you do? What? How would you answer that?  Nicole: I usually like to build in some context and say, well, you know how sometimes you have a really good idea and \[00:01:00\] you wanna help people, and what that brings up is the opportunity to have conversations where you need to help somebody make a decision. That's where I come in and I help people understand how to. Show up more powerfully and more influentially to the conversations that really drive their business. Mm-hmm.  Kris: Awesome. And I love the use of the word conversation because a lot of what you do is really around how to sell more effectively, but it isn't technically selling. It's through conversation that, that you do this work, right?  Nicole: Yeah. 'cause I believe the sale is just the byproduct of the conversations and the relationship that lead up to that. I think that's just the natural next step. So to me, the sale happens before what we actually think the sale is. A lot of people think of the sale as the transaction. Speaker 6: And I believe that the sale happens far before the transaction. I  Speaker 5: totally agree. So tell us a little bit about how you \[00:02:00\] got here. Like what were you doing prior to this and what led you to entrepreneurship?  Speaker 6: Well, I think like most people, uh, we can look back and see that it wasn't necessarily a straight line. I was not designing this when I was 12 years old. Um, but I think that's the beauty of life, right? It's gonna take us in places that, um, maybe we wouldn't have planned for ourselves. And so I look back and I'm very grateful that I am where I am. Um, I started as a high school teacher and after going to college and playing basketball in college, I was like, okay, I'll be a teacher and I'll teach math 'cause I like numbers. And I did that for 15 years. Mm-hmm. And there was a part of that competitive basketball player in me that just wanted some kind of, um, challenge, right? So after 15 years, it was great. And it was wonderful being a teacher. I wanted to challenge myself and I had a lot of friends that were in sales. It sounded like a game. And I was like, sign me up. Like, if I win this game, I can win lots of money. Like that's what sales is. Okay. And I. \[00:03:00\] Very quickly, once I did take a, a job in sales, found myself feeling salesy, feeling pushy, feeling just uncomfortable with how I was being asked to do it or expected to do it. And I thought, there's gotta be a better way. And if I were to go back to the very first sales job interview that I had, I was nervous. 'cause all I had on my resume was teacher.  Speaker 6: I was so worried that the guy interviewing me was gonna say that, that, Hey, you know, you're great, but you're just a teacher. You don't have experience. And it turns out he said exactly that. Speaker 6: to the end of the interview, he said, listen, I'm pleasantly surprised you've done an a great job. You really knocked it outta the park. However, I'm gonna have a hard time hiring you over the 89 internal people who want this position. Your resume just says, teacher, you've never sold anything. And in that moment I was like, crap. And what came through next changed everything about how I see sales. I said, well, I. I've been selling math to high school \[00:04:00\] teenagers for 15 years and nobody wanted to buy that.  Speaker 5: I love it. I love it. Mic drop moment. Right.  Speaker 6: For, for probably him and for me. Like, and, and little did I know in that moment it was the mic drop moment. 'cause I'm like, oh, I'm onto the next round. 'cause what he said, he goes, that's good. That's actually, that's a good point. That's good. Well you got a ride along with one of my guys and I was like, yeah. And so I'm thinking, yes, I got onto the next round. But what it really taught me and still teaches me and, and what I share all the time with, with my clients is that's what sales is. It. It's, it's not the transaction, it's the relationship. It's the rapport that we're building. None of those kids were walking in with credit cards, paying me to teach them math. They, they wouldn't have.  Speaker 6: However, I had to help them make a decision to get what they ultimately wanted, which was freedom, which was, you know, something outside of high school that they had their site set on. But in order to get there, they had to pass a math class. And so I believe that a salespeople really just professional mind maker, uppers,  Speaker 5: uh, \[00:05:00\] uh, or professional mind maker, uppers, professional  Speaker 5: I think that's what we're Right, right. Yeah.  Speaker 6: Right. Yeah. Really we're helping somebody make up their mind to do something that they want or need to do to get to where they really want to be. And I think that's all we're really ever doing. We're not selling somebody something. We're not convincing them. We're helping them step into the belief that what they want is possible and helping them get there.  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. And really overcoming those internal mindset blocks or beliefs that they have around why they, why, why they can't do this, like what's keeping them from doing that. And. Overcoming those hurdles. Again, if it's the right thing for them to be doing, we just wanna hold their hand or gently put our hand on their back and be like, you can do this if you want. If you want the end result here, you can do this.  Speaker 5: Wow. Yeah. That's really beautiful. And so \[00:06:00\] what happened when you showed up? You got, you got hired, you went on the, you went on the ride with one of the seasoned sales professionals. You showed up on your first day of the job. And what was that environment like for you?  Speaker 6: Well, I was very excited to be there because I'd taken a big step to do something. I switched careers after 15 years, that was a really big deal, and had really no idea if I was gonna be any good at it or not. But was excited to try something new and challenge myself. So I walk in on day one and I sit down with this group of sales veterans who are, you know, my new sales team, and they were like, why did you leave teaching to come here? I put on my biggest Pollyanna smile and I said, because I wanna be number one in the nation. And that definitely got me laughed outta the room. Like that was just ridiculous for me to walk in and say that. And the guy next to me goes, do you know how hard that is? And I said, no. Have you ever done it? And he said, \[00:07:00\] no. He said, it's a really big deal. And I was like, okay, well, where there's a will, there's a way. And so I felt a little silly in that moment 'cause I could feel everybody looking at me like, okay. It's like you walk into the, your first day of a script read as an actor and you're like, I'm gonna win an Oscar for this role. Like it's  Speaker 5: kind of kind of so audacious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or back to basketball, it's like being great, A great high school athlete in basketball and being, being like, I'm gonna make it to the NBA. I mean that's, it's a long shot, right? It's kind of for  Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure. So, um, so yeah, it was definitely, um, what I tell people is like, I think I was just oblivious enough to not know how hard it should be. And so of course it was, it was hard and it was challenging and there were tears and there were things that, you know, like, so I, I did, I did become number one. However, I just think that it was on my side that I didn't know how hard it would be. Mm-hmm. If that makes  Speaker 5: \[00:08:00\] sense. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. I feel that way around parenting. Like, I have a 7-year-old boy, and I, in hindsight, I'm like, had I known how difficult this is gonna be, I don't know if I would've done it, but I'm wouldn't change it for the world. Glad I did it. Really glad I didn't know how hard it was gonna be.  Speaker 6: um, that's, that's a great point. It's like if looking back, had I known it was gonna be that hard, I don't think that that would've been my goal. I don't think I would've been excited about it. I at all. Right.  Speaker 5: Right, right. And so what ha, what happened after that? Speaker 6: So, you know, it, it's interesting because it was my goal. I said I wanted to be number one in the nation. And to be honest, it was like my goal because I knew people, like, one of them was a guy that I had dated that was number one in the nation, in his company. That's all I knew is that it sounded cool. 'cause I knew people that had done it in their companies. Right. I had no idea how to do it, how to make it happen. Like we said, how hard it would be. Um, \[00:09:00\] I really got specific and focused on where were the opportunity. I mean, at first it was like, let me just get in the mix. Let me just get messy with it. Speaker 6: as I got a little bit more specific about where I was gonna be able to best serve my customers, I saw opportunities that if I focused on those, that those were gonna be like. Higher opportunity, um, better chances for me. And so I just got really specific on where I wanted to focus. Even though I worked for a company and I had a certain target and a certain goal, I knew the type of customer that I really wanted to go after. And the more I got focused on that, um, the more those opportunities started appearing. And, um, before I knew it, I had landed a very, very huge customer. Mm-hmm. And, um, I started the entire fiscal year off as the number one salesperson. So like from day one, I had such a giant, um, account that that was where I started the year. So it was pretty, it was pretty incredible. And then that definitely built in the opportunity for me to see \[00:10:00\] and do more of that same. You know, that same type of work with other customers, and then I became known for that thing. Mm-hmm. And more customers then were coming to me saying, Hey, we want that same thing. And so I think this is just a perfect example of like in sales, when we get really specific about what we're good at and what we help people best with. Call it nicheing down calling, whatever you want. Mm-hmm. Um, we become known for that. Mm-hmm. And that becomes a lot easier for people to understand why they wanna work with us and what can happen when they do.  Speaker 5: And once you landed that first gig, then you have proof that you've done this before, that you can then parlay that into future conversations. So I love that you talk about getting clear on really who you wanted to help. Right. You got really clear on that first, and then that allowed you to uncover opportunities on how you can do the this differently. So how did, how did you get clear on who that person was that you really wanted to hone in on?  Speaker 6: Such a good \[00:11:00\] question because I didn't know that that was even a thing. This was long before I'd even become or thought about becoming an entrepreneur. And so I know now as an entrepreneur, the two most important questions we can ask ourselves before we sell anything, who do you help and what do you, what problem do you solve? Right. That like, that has to be answered. And if you don't know that, you're not gonna be making sales. Right. I was still so new that, fortunately I had the veteran sales team that, um, one of them came into one of our sales meetings once with an opportunity that I didn't know was available to us, and it was a really lucrative opportunity. And so he shared, he had gotten this new account that had this extra feature to it, and so that's how I got super specific, because he made, so our goal was $10,000 a month in new sales, or 12,000 maybe. Right. Right around there. Anyways, point being, he walked into our sales meeting with one account. That was worth $10,000 and here's me trying to get these accounts that are like a thousand dollars and $2,000. Right? And he walks in and he's like, yeah, I got this account and they paid. \[00:12:00\] And I was like, what is that account? And what did you do? And what, what kind of service did you deliver? Right. And when I realized that I could get one account that would cover my entire monthly target, I was like, okay, where can I find more of those? So that's really what stood out to me. It was like, how can I work harder, not smarter? Right. That was really it. It wasn't as specific as who do I wanna help and what problem do I solve? Then it became that. Then it was like, oh, I wanna help the people who need that service. Right. And the problem I solve is convenience, frustration, overwhelm, whatever it is that they're dealing with. Mm-hmm. That requires them to, to, to need that. Mm-hmm.  Speaker 6: that's really what it was. Somebody showed me an example and I went, wait, I can work smarter, not harder if I do that. Mm-hmm.  Speaker 5: Donald Miller tells told me a story about when he started doing public speaking and he would charge five grand for every appearance. Every gig that he got was five grand. And then he pitched, one time he pitched a \[00:13:00\] company 10 grand and they said, yeah, sure, 10 grand. Perfect. And then he kind of came back to his office and he was like, well, how about I only focus on clients that wanna pay 10 grand? I can, I can get to my goal of a hundred thousand a year. With only 10 clients. And prior to that, you know, it was gonna take him 20 sales per year to get to his goal. So it's just such a, a, a wonderful lesson. And like you said, working smarter, not harder, and really like, how can we get to the numbers that we wanna get with actually less effort. So bigger clients. And then once you identified like, okay, I wanna work with clients, larger ticket clients. Mm-hmm. Um, did you uncover then, did, did they have unique or different challenges that the lower ticket clients didn't have? \[00:14:00\]  Speaker 6: For sure. I, it was definitely a different type of client altogether. Um, I was working in LA at a time when Silicon Valley, all of the tech companies from up north in San Francisco and Silicon Valley. We're migrating and moving down to LA and establishing, uh, a, a location there, and it was called Silicon Beach. And so I saw that as my opportunity because I knew that those customers needed the thing that I was really good at, which basically what I was really good at and what I, you know, became the expert in, was grab and go services for break rooms. Mm. I sold coffee to offices, which meant I sold, you know, coffee services. We put in the coffee brewer, we delivered the coffee every single month or every week or whatever. But when these customers needed extra things besides just coffee and essentials  Speaker 6: and food, that's the higher ticket item. And when I saw all of these companies migrating down, I was like, \[00:15:00\] okay. They all want what I know they have up in San Francisco. And that was the thing that I became the expert in, became known for, and not just known for the actual service of Grab and go, but my ability. So I established partnerships with vendors who could bring in the types of snacks, the healthy snacks, the specific snacks that I knew my higher ticket customers were wanting and were looking for. Speaker 6: so I made my job even easier by again, conversations and establishing the right relationships with the right people. Because it wasn't just me, it was never just me. It's never just any of us. Right, right. It's always other people involved that are helping us do what we're doing. What are those relationships? How can we strengthen those so that our job becomes even easier? So I became really close with all of my coffee vendors. I became close with the, you know, the food vendors that could help me pull in the right products. And then I was the person that was really valuable to the people who wanted those types of things in their break room, because I could pull all the strings, make it happen for them, and they didn't have to lift a finger. Speaker 5: Right. Right. So you reduce the time, the \[00:16:00\] legwork, the overwhelm, the, just all the coordination of that, which is such a gift to them. Tell me, how did you communicate to them the benefit of that? So beyond just the headache of coordinating all that, like the, the downstream benefit, meaning what else were they excited about and, and how did you communicate to that, that, to them? So like, for example, was it happier employees? What, what were some of the other things that you shared? Like, this is, this is what's possible for you?  Speaker 6: For sure. I mean, happier employees, higher retention, like the, the, the, the benefits that we could talk to were great. Mm-hmm. What I did and what I would encourage anybody to do in a sales conversation. Is find out why it's not okay for them to stay where they are, to keep doing what they're doing. Like sure. Everybody wants, you know, a way to attract top employees. So like if you're Facebook and you're coming \[00:17:00\] down from Silicon Valley to Silicon Beach, you're establishing, you know, a, a a, a location there. You want to hire people that are the best of the best. Right. How do you incentivize them with different bonuses and benefits that you want? And, and the break room could be a big part of that. So having a fully stocked break room, having the best coffee. Yes. And what happens if you don't get that top talent? Speaker 6: What happens if you keep serving the same coffee that you're serving?  Speaker 6: Knowing you have all of these other roles and responsibilities on a daily basis, how does it feel knowing that this extra piece of coffee and break room services also falls into your responsibilities? And that means that you don't have time to get everything else done. Speaker 6: Before we try to start moving somebody into something that may very well just look aspirational to them. It looks like a nice to have. If we haven't first helped them realize that they don't wanna be where they are. And so what I would do with the person that I was meeting with quite often, they were not the top decision maker. They were the person that was a part of the decision, but they happened to \[00:18:00\] be the person that was bearing the brunt of the repercussions  Speaker 6: not making the decision. So I was able to help them see, and, and basically build an inside sales person, if you will. I was able to help them see the benefit of what if you don't do this differently? What if you don't bring in these snacks? What if you aren't able to retain top employees? What if you aren't able to attract the top talent that you want? And when we, when we were able to see the consequences very clearly to not making the decision, now they have motivation to make the decision. Not just because it looks nice, but because being where they are, they've realized this isn't gonna work. We need top talent. We need to keep the people that are, that are top on our team, right? We want people that. Uh, you know, converge in the break room and get to know each other. We wanna establish culture. That feels really good. Why? Because we know what it feels like when culture doesn't feel good, when we don't have good coffee, when we don't have happy employees, right? So we've got a visit there before we try to take them anywhere else that looks good.  Speaker 5: One of the most important parts of the StoryBrand framework. \[00:19:00\] Is stakes, right? What is gonna happen if you do nothing? If you don't do anything, you're gonna keep getting the same results that you want. And this is kind of, stakes are really the tension between success that's possible and the failure that's also possible. Stakes are the reason. When we go into a movie, we sit down and we don't look at our phone for 90 minutes. We are fully engaged because we wanna find out if the hero is gonna succeed or if they're gonna fail. And whether you, whether it's on your website or in a sales conversation, we, we are likely to click on the call to action or say yes on a sales call. If we know it's going to bring us success, we're even more likely to say yes if we know it's gonna help us avoid failure. And you've just totally hit the nail on the head with that one. You're really. Gently, I, I really \[00:20:00\] do think of this as you are the guide, right? And you are gently putting your hand on their back. You're not being doomsday, you're not, you know, being negative, but you're gently putting your hand on, on their back and saying, if you don't do anything, you know, failure is possible and here's what that looks like and here's how I can help you avoid that failure. Does, does that resonate with you?  Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, I think that's, if we don't ask then who are we really? Do we really care about helping people like they have the right to refuse, right? And it's not personal, by the way. We've gotta get over that and I'll raise my hand. I'm there, I. Definitely taken it personal. I don't do this work because I've always figured it out and been perfect at it. I do this work because I've been all over the place and I've learned a lot, and I know that objections or any kind of rejection, it's not personal. But if we don't actually go to that deeper level with that person, if we don't \[00:21:00\] visit that opportunity to see what the consequences might be to them not making a decision, then are we really serving them? Are we really helping them? Because what happens a lot of times is people are like, well, I don't feel comfortable doing that. Then who are you making that about? Mm-hmm.  Speaker 6: You're making it about you and your discomfort, but if you took the time and put the focus and the intention into building this skillset to know how to show up to a sales conversation, to help somebody navigate through some of those challenges, to help them see, Hey, what are the consequences? What are the stakes here? If you don't make this decision, what are the repercussions? And if you still wanna stay where you are, once we visited the repercussions, then that's probably the right decision for you. If you want some support with that and you wanna take a look at how I could help you with that, then we could talk about that too. I'm not mad either way. Nobody's right or wrong either way. But if we don't take them down that path and help them see what might happen, if they don't make the decision, then we're not really serving them.  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, that is so true. Mike. Drop moment \[00:22:00\] right there. That's so beautiful. And I think as service providers, as coaches, as self-employed people, we're doing this work because we have the heart to help, we genuinely want to help. And part of really serving them and showing up with a big heart is really walking down, walking them down this path. So tell me, how is your approach different? Like how do you approach sales? I wanna hear like a, a comparison be between traditional sales tactics and your approach.  Speaker 6: So many thoughts. I, you know, like I said, when I entered corporate, the, the way that people have been selling, the way that people have been selling for hundreds of years, it just didn't feel aligned to me. It felt very pushy. And I believe that it's about being pulley inviting people. Mm-hmm. And inviting them to take the next step. \[00:23:00\] And my approach has roots in sales psychology. It has a lot of roots in human connection and self-leadership. Self-leadership is a big piece of what I teach with sales, because we can only take people as far as we've gone ourselves. Speaker 6: And so curiosity is a big part of the sales process, and that starts with us being curious with ourselves.  Speaker 6: So my approach comes from, yes, self-leadership and sales psychology and human connection, but also I don't believe people should be selling things. I believe that they should be helping people make a buying decision. Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. That's such a beautiful reframe. Um, tell, tell me before we keep going. Tell me, tell me about self-leadership. What does that even mean?  Speaker 6: So there's a saying that a lot of people repeat in sales and it's control the controllables. Mm-hmm. There's not much in the sales process that is actually in our control. The only thing that is \[00:24:00\] ultimately in our control in all of life, not just in the sales process mm-hmm. Is ourselves.  Speaker 6: So I believe self-leadership has everything to do with sales because who you are as a salesperson has everything to do with your intentions and your focus and the skills that you choose to build, to be a better salesperson, to be a better guide for that person who needs your help because nobody's in a conversation, regardless of what you sell. Whether you're real estate agent, financial advisor, coach, consultant, keynote speaker, I don't care. Across the board, whatever you sell, whatever you do, somebody believes that their life will be better. On the other side of the thing that you do, our ability to help someone navigate the decision to say yes is on us. That's on us to understand how to show up confidently and competently to those important conversations where somebody is in a position to make a decision and the worst thing we could ever do is leave them where they are.  Speaker 6: A lot of people think no is the enemy of yes, no, and yes are both closing the deal. Those are both good things. It's maybe land that people get stuck in and if we as salespeople are willing to leave people in maybe land, then are we really the people we claim to be, are we really there to help someone? Because to me, helping someone get clarity in their decision is really our goal. Like I said at the beginning, we are professional mind maker uppers, and sometimes that answer is yes, and sometimes that answer is no. Speaker 6: But if we leave somebody in maybe land, we've left them the same place they were when the conversation started. So I believe a yes and a no are equally as good. A yes probably feels a lot better to the business owner, but a no should as well. Because if we help somebody get to a no and that's their truth, then that was the right answer. Mm-hmm. If we help somebody get to a yes and that is their truth, then that's the right answer. If we help somebody get to a yes, and they meant \[00:26:00\] no, eh, if we help somebody get to a no and they really wanted to say yes, eh, so to me it's about how do we stay outta maybe land and how do we help someone arrive at the thing that is truest for them? The the decision of clarity that is truest for them.  Speaker 5: You touched on a word that I love, which is confidence. And I know with my clients getting their story right, finding the words to really tell their most compelling story is of course very powerful to the pe, the people that they wanna reach. But what I have found this strategic invisible byproduct of the, of this work is that they're reminded of how powerful they are at solving a particular problem. And when you really own that and you have the words, and you have on a cellular level, the knowledge around the problem that you solve and how much it matters to \[00:27:00\] other people, you're able to show up to these calls with such a different energy. Have you noticed that too with your, your clients  Absolutely. And, and, and I could even tie that back into the self-leadership piece because if we are not showing up as our fullest, highest, best expression of ourselves, how could we possibly lead someone else to that? And that includes looking at holistically who we are and how we show up in this world. And when I say holistically, yes, that means what are you eating? What are you fueling your body with? How are you moving your body? How are you taking care of your physical vessel so that you can show up in all areas of your life as the best version of you? And this isn't about perfection. This isn't about, you know, being like the best of the, it's literally about how am I on a daily basis leading myself so that on any given day I am making the best decisions for myself. Because if I can't make the best decisions for myself, how can I help somebody else make the best decisions for themselves? Ugh. I love confidence is a big piece of that. And, and, and when we \[00:28:00\] are taking good care of ourselves, we are feeling more confident. Mm-hmm. And that confidence is truly what somebody sees. And here's, here's the thing, and I know you know this, Kris People see a better version of themselves in us, in how we show up for them, in who we are for them. And they want to buy a better version of themselves, and I don't care, whatever it is that you sell, again, you could be a real estate agent. You are helping somebody move towards a dream or some realization of a life that they desire and they see you as being the vessel or the guide in helping them get there. So we know at all times that our role is to help somebody see what's possible for them by showing up in the best expression of ourselves.  Speaker 5: Oh wow. That's, that's really beautiful. Because, you know, so often we talk about the transformation that we can provide for them, like they want, they do want to become whatever that aspirational identity is that they're looking for, and they know we can solve a problem that \[00:29:00\] will help them get to that point. But I think sometimes we forget that we are the physical. Representation of that potential and that possibility. And, and it's such a, it's such a powerful point. So let's get down to you and your process and your, the way you teach your clients to do this work. Let break it down for us,  Speaker 6: we focus on conversations and because I believe everything that anybody wants is on the other side of a conversation. Anything we want and desire in life, conversations will get us there. And so from a sales perspective, I believe that's where the most important pieces lie in us creating the outcomes that we want is showing up more powerfully and confidently to the conversations that matter. The other thing that I really focus on, and this kind of could, you know, be another piece to the question you asked earlier about like, what's my, what's my, \[00:30:00\] um, process I like to tell people or how am I different? Slow, slow it down. Stop trying to get married on the first date. Too many people are going in to their conversations with one and only one outcome in mind. Make the sale that makes it black and white. Right or wrong, good or bad. It feels so, um, like a challenge that you're setting yourself up that that isn't fair to you or the other person. So I think going in and always trying to just get married on the first date is going to have us walk away and the other person walk away not really feeling very good because we don't really like to show up on first dates and, you know, commit to the rest of our life to somebody that we're sitting in front of. Have a glass of wine, have some appetizers, slow it down. And what it actually does is it speeds up the process because when we slow it down, we don't come across as salesy. We come across as curious. We come across as caring about the other \[00:31:00\] person, and we come across as somebody that they can trust. And when they start to feel safe in our presence, when they start to feel like we have their best interest in mind, when they start to feel like we understand them, then it's a lot more likely that they're going to want to take steps forward with us. The only way we can do that is to slow it down because trust isn't built overnight. It's built over time. Mm-hmm. So I think that's a big piece of our approach to conversations. It has to be how do we slow it down so that what we're actually doing is guiding somebody else through making the decision. We're guiding them through the process. We are showing up as a professional mind maker, upper, um, and if we were getting to the nitty gritty of it, like one of the things that I have on my clients do is we've got conversations every single day that we need to be starting so that we're always moving people through our ecosystem. Like, we don't wanna be in a place where it's feast or famine, where we've got some deals and then we've got nothing going on. We wanna always be in conversations. And the real goal is not to put periods and exclamation points at the end of the sentences. \[00:32:00\] It's how do we put commas and dashes so that those conversations are continuing? Because not everybody's gonna be in a position to buy. There are now buyers, there are soon buyers, and there are later buyers. And if we are always only trying to get married on the first date, those are those now buyers. We're missing out on the soon buyers and the later buyers. Mm-hmm. And when it is time for them to make a decision to buy, don't we still wanna be front of mind? Don't we wanna be the person that they're still gonna turn to? So we've gotta stop always trying to go after the sale. I believe making the customer is more valuable than making the sale. Mm-hmm.  Speaker 6: And, and, and all I mean by that is once you get a customer. They're a customer who will repeatedly buy from you versus doing what it takes to get a sale. And then maybe that person never revisits you again, or never buys anything additionally from you again. So it's really about how do we slow it down? How do we show the other person that we know them, how do we build the rapport so that what we're actually doing is building a \[00:33:00\] relationship with somebody who sees value in what we can do, because we've helped them recognize what they want and how they wanna do it. Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. So on a tangible level, how do you, how do you slow things down? Like if, if someone's listening today and they're like, okay, I've, I'm on board, like I wanna slow things down. How do I do that?  Speaker 6: Can you think of a, a specific example? 'cause I think that usually helps, let's say that somebody is in a sales conversation and, well, I'll give an example. I had a company recently who wanted to hire me to do a 12 month sales training program. And sure. It would've been cool to be like, Hey, let's, let's land that deal right now. Like, let's, let's capture the whole thing. But that's a big commitment. That's a big chunk. And how do I know that I wanna be working with them for 12 months? Right? How do they know they wanna be working with me for 12 months? And \[00:34:00\] so I thought, okay, what's a way that I could design a meaningful next step for us to take together?  Speaker 6: It will give some immediate value that will allow me to get to know them better, them to get to know me better. We can establish some buy-in and it will still deliver some quick wins because anything I present is still gonna be valuable. And so what I presented is a, my version of, let's slow this down and let's start with this. Let's do this piece. Then that will give us further direction on what's going to make sense moving forward and make sure that we all have buy-in from the key stakeholders, that we all feel like this is the right fit moving forward for a longer term engagement that was an easier yes for them. It builds the foundation for any future work that we do and allows both of us to say, Hey, is this right for us? Is this right to keep moving forward? And if, you know, we were to look at it from like, let's say a coach perspective. 'cause I work with a lot of coaches. \[00:35:00\] If you've got somebody, let's say you have a signature program and you've got somebody who's interested in your six month signature program and they're like, okay, um, I really wanna do this, you know, I need to talk to my husband. Or you know, it feels like a big commitment for six months. And well what if you had something that was a little bit more bite-size that would give them an experience of trying before they buy, if you will. Now, obviously they can, you know, it's still a paid product, they're gonna pay you for it. But maybe you've got, instead of the six month signature program, a 90 minute intensive. You can dial it down to one specific thing that you can work on in those 90 minutes together, you can deliver some quick wins because of course you can, in 90 minutes, if you're super focused on something, you're gonna help them create a quick win, create some feeling of value, and then they will come back for more if they really felt connected and they really got the value from it. Mm-hmm. And you can do all kinds of, I mean, we, we don't wanna get too tactical here, but you could do all kinds of different things to incentivize them to keep moving. But, and, and listen, if somebody's ready to take the six month jump, then do it. I'm not, I'm not saying don't. Right. If it feels like the \[00:36:00\] right fit and it's the right time for everybody, but I believe slowing things down benefits everybody. And what it actually does is it speeds things up because it makes people feel like you really have their back. You really care about them. You're not just trying to sell them something just to make a sale. You're like, let's just take it slow. Like, we're good. If you need more after that, then we'll talk about what more looks like. If this is enough for you right now, then great. Then you got what you needed. And, and everybody's happy. And I think that that's what it is. It's not about selling them what we want. It's selling them what is best in the moment and will help continue that relationship so that they can get what they need. And if it's longer term, then you'll talk about longer term and what that looks like.  Speaker 5: Right? Right. It really does always come back to the metaphor of dating, doesn't it? Like you, you go on one date, then you're like, okay, let's go on another date. Yes. And then eventually you're like, let's not date anybody else. Let's just date each other. Yes. And, and I think it's such a, um, such a kind way to kind \[00:37:00\] of show up with that helpful heart. You genuine, genuinely want to help. And so you don't have to dive into the big, big ticket item yet. Let's make everyone feel safe. And you're right, trust is built over time. So if you can help them in that 90 minute intensive, solve some. Significant problems, not the, the hugest problems. Right. But they get to, on a body level, they get to experience the, they get to experience what it's like for you to help them solve a mini problem. So then they very easily can then commit if they're comfortable to a more macro problem. That's it. So that's  Well, and I love your analogy of the dating thing there too. It's like, if you met somebody that you were attracted to and on that very first day that you met them, they were like, Hey, I really like you. Let's be boyfriend and girlfriend. Like, let's commit together. You'd be like, what? \[00:38:00\] Gimme something to look forward to. Like, can we go on a first date? Can we like, you know, have some fun together, right? And to your, you go on a date, and then what happens after that first date? If it's a good fit and you had fun, you're like, can't wait for the second date. Right? And now you're excited about the second date. But if you jump right in to like, Hey, let's be boyfriend and girlfriend for the next six months, like right. Ah, that feels like a lot. I don't know. Yeah. And, and the scheme is true in a sales conversation. Can we find a way to date a couple of times to where we're both looking forward to the next, and then it's easy to commit to something long term because now we both know we want it.  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and not only that, that we don't, we not only want it, but we're really excited about it. Right. That's what we want. I had a client the other day tell me that she went to bed feeling giddy about the, the possibility of us working together. And I just, I, that just delighted me. That's what I want people to feel giddy about it. Now, you don't want them to feel \[00:39:00\] like, Ooh, I'm nervous, or did I do the right thing? Hopefully fingers, fingers crossed. Right? You don't want them to be in that position because. They're gonna show up with different energy too. Like they might be so worried about the investment that they've made, that they're gonna start looking for holes in what you're delivering and that nobody's going to win in that scenario at all. Speaker 6: Well, 'cause where's their focus too? Their focus isn't actually on the results that you're helping them create. They're in fear, they're scared, they're questioning their decision. They're looking for holes, to your point, and they're showing up different ener differently energetically. And then are you actually helping them with what you are meant to be helping them with? So yeah, I think that's a really, really great point.  Speaker 5: A lot of the coaches that I work with and consultants and service providers, they, they love the work they do. They're excited to get their messaging dialed in. \[00:40:00\] They're ready for a more compelling story that's gonna be really working for them to get them more clients. But they hate the sales part of it all. They dread it, it makes them feel icky. Um, and it, and it might just be be because they don't feel they don't like selling, right? But it could also be around money mindset stuff. When I share that with you, like what comes to mind around how can we transform our mindset around this type of thing, where we're actually excited to get on these calls. Speaker 6: Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? Because we all claim to wanna be helpers of people. We care about people. We're good at what we're good at because. We enjoy it and we're good at it, and we wanna help others because maybe they don't wanna do it themselves or they're not as good at it. And then a little bit of discomfort gets inserted into the conversation and we're like, I feel sales, I feel pushy, \[00:41:00\] and we all of a sudden are like turning our back. It's like, wait, aren't you the person who said you really cared about helping people? Like what? Until things get uncomfortable, and then because it's uncomfortable for you, you're gonna like turn the other way. To me, it's like if we really care about helping people, selling really is serving, and if we're not wanting to do it because it feels uncomfortable to us, then who are we making it about? When people are like, I feel salesy. I'm like, how do you think that person feels who's in pain? Because they can't figure out how to do the thing that they need to do that you happen to be really good at. You could do easily or even in your sleep because you're so damn good at it and this person needs help with it because you are so uncomfortable with asking them if they need help. You're not gonna ask 'em if they need help. And usually, to your point Kris it comes down to there's some discomfort around money. 'cause people are like, well, I would help people for free. Therein is our answer to what the hurdle is. There's a \[00:42:00\] money wonkiness there. And listen, money's the biggest story on the planet. We all have our own wonky relationships and you know, in ways with it. But let's not let that be the reason that gets in the way of us helping people. And for the people who are like, well, I don't like taking people's money, then stop freaking taking their money. What do you mean taking their money? You're not giving them any anything in return. There's nothing that you're showing up energetically exchanging for the exchange of their money. So they're giving you money for what? Because you're a con artist. Like what You know and people are No, no, no. I have then start seeing it like that. Then start seeing it like that. And for the people that it's not valuable for quit begging for their validation. I think we get so caught up in not worrying about finding the right people. We're worrying about finding everybody and anybody. 'cause we've got lack and scarcity in our mindset. And the second that somebody tells us that they can't afford it, we make it about us. We make it wrong. We make it this thing that like, oh, it feels uncomfortable asking. What if they're just not the right person? Because if somebody right now came \[00:43:00\] to me and they were like, Hey, I've got this $2,000 ticket to a NASCAR race, do you want it? I'd be like, no, I, I don't even think I'd take it for free. I wouldn't. Not only would I not pay you $2,000 for it, I'm pretty darn unsure. I wouldn't take it for free unless John Mayer was sitting right next to me at the NASCAR race. I don't think that there's any value in that ticket for me, but there's plenty of people who would probably pay six for it, depending on the race. I don't know enough about NASCAR to tell you what the races are, but that doesn't mean that that ticket isn't valuable. It just means I'm not the right person for the ticket. And I think we get too caught up in believing the wrong people for our stuff, what they're telling us about our stuff. We're believing feedback from people who it isn't actually even valuable for, instead of saying so hyperfocused on the people that, and, and this goes back to our original conversation, Kris who do you help and what problem do you solve for them? Because if you're trying to help everybody with everything, you're helping nobody with anything. \[00:44:00\] And if anybody's questioning like that right now, let me ask you a question. If you are in the kitchen and you are cooking something and you need to open up a can, what tool are you looking for? The can opener. The can opener. What are you not looking for? The Swiss Army knife. Ooh, you're not, because it doesn't stick in your mind that, Ooh, a Swiss army knife would be good. Could it do the job? Sure. But don't we want the thing that does the job the best?  Speaker 5: I'm just laughing because this is so profound. This is such good learning, and I'm just so grateful that you're like using these beautiful metaphors that allow us to really understand this so tangibly. So thank you. Yes. That's what we want. We want the damn can opener.  Speaker 6: Gimme the thing that specializes in the very thing that I'm trying to do. Like if I need to \[00:45:00\] do my taxes, I'm not just trying to find somebody who knows spreadsheets and is good with numbers. Like I actually want a CPA who knows the laws, who's going to do it because they are the best at doing it and. I think it's really easy to see in our own lives in areas of like, if your kid wanted to play soccer, would you just hire any coach or would you hire a soccer coach?  Speaker 6: Right. When you start looking at that, it's like, oh, if, if I want a really good steak, am I gonna go to an Italian restaurant? No, I'm gonna go to a steak restaurant. Right? So where are we selling ourselves Short. Literally, because we're trying to be the jack of all trades. We're trying to be the Swiss Army knife, and when you try to be everything to everybody, you end up being nothing to nobody because you're not known for the thing that you do really well. And you know, that can come from a lot of different places. I would say it comes from lack, from scarcity, just from lack of knowledge and understanding of what you're actually doing when you run a business and you're helping a certain group of people with a certain problem that you help them solve.  Speaker 5: What, tell me what you hear, because I hear \[00:46:00\] this a lot. Like clients are like, I really wanna be charging $5,000 for what I do. I mean, what the problem I solve is really important. It hugely benefits them, but right now I'm charging, uh, 4 97 and even the 4 97 people aren't, aren't willing to buy. Like, I'm getting turned down a lot at the, even the lower rates. So how could I possibly increase my rates?  Speaker 6: You can't, until you get around different people. I, I would say that's probably one of the, and and again, we're not here to diagnose necessarily, but I would say that could potentially be part of it. Or maybe you're just not articulating your value, maybe you're not asking the right questions. You know, there, there's, it could be a lot of things, but I would say more than likely you're not talking to the right people who value it at $5,000. If I went over to the Honda dealership and I was trying to sell $150,000 car, I'm probably \[00:47:00\] not gonna do a very good job to the customers that are walking into Honda, because they're a different type of customer. They're not wrong, they're not bad, they're not poor, there's nothing. But they are looking for a different type of solution. Probably more practicality and functionality than maybe what $150,000 Mercedes might be.  Speaker 6: That doesn't mean the Mercedes isn't valuable. It doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of people paying full price for Mercedes because they are. So if you're shopping around something to people who are looking in a very different way at a solution, and your solution maybe is higher touch, higher value, then are you talking to the right people? That would be my first question. Do you know who the people that you serve are and what problem you help them with? Because the majority of the time, the people who want to sell a $5,000 product and are selling it or not selling it for 4 97, still have not gotten \[00:48:00\] complete clarity on who they help and how they help them. Speaker 5: So let's get a little bit more tangible here for a minute. Um, when you get on a call with a potential client, or how do you coach your clients when they get on a call, how do they navigate that call?  Speaker 6: Like if they're getting on a sales call,  Speaker 6: sales call. So I have a template that, you know, happy to give away to anybody who's listening. Um, it's nine steps. It's really simple. So I would recommend, first and foremost, if there's any conversation that you're getting into that you have a plan. The worst time to think about what you're gonna say is the moment you're saying it. So if you're waiting, here's what a lot of people do. They, they've got the hope, wish and pray method, and it's a method. I can't say it's super effective, but that's one way to do it, the hope, wish, and pray. And they're like, well, I'm good at talking and I'm good at, you know, conversations and people like me. So it, it's literally like, I just hope they're there to say yes. It's pretty much, you know, what people are doing. So I would \[00:49:00\] first definitely have a plan, and that means you've gotta do the work before the work. That means there's some pre-briefing that means that, you know, there's so many different things that we could look at, like, are you shooting for different levels of success? Do you have a plan for different ways that the conversation might go so that you're not making up on the spot? Like, I don't know, they just said this. What do I do now? You've gotta think ahead of time, what might come up? What if they say no? What am I gonna be prepared for? What am I gonna have planned? What questions might I wanna ask to uncover the context that's gonna help all of us get more clarity in what would be the right decision. If you're not putting time and effort into that ahead of the conversation, then you're probably cutting yourself off from opportunity without even realizing. If you put a little bit of time in and had a little bit of a more solid plan and some questions to ask, the conversation is gonna more likely go in your favor just because you did a pre-brief, you did the work before the work. So I would definitely have a plan. I would definitely make sure that like, regardless of what the outcome is, that you \[00:50:00\] have next steps in place so that you're in control of the conversation. The person in control of the conversation is the person asking the questions. So I would have some questions prepared, and I think the most important, because those were a lot of tactical things just from a mindset and a really, really important point of view. Be unattached to the outcome.  Speaker 6: Like release any attachment to the outcome of the conversation. Sure. You can. You can want to move forward, you can want to be able to help that person, but what the only outcome that I think we should ever attach to is reaching the point of the highest and best good for everybody on the conversation. Mm-hmm. And sometimes that's, yes, we move forward and sometimes that's, no, this isn't right, right now. But ultimately that's the outcome that we want, is what's the best and highest good for everybody in this conversation. And that's the only thing I wanna attach to. Because if we get too attached to, I want them to say yes. I want them to say yes, we're making that about us. And if we get too attached to, well, I don't care. They can say no. They can say \[00:51:00\] whatever. We don't wanna be careless about it. Ultimately, we wanna show up not attached to the outcome, ready to guide the call. We've done the work, we've planned our questions. We know different outcomes that might come up, and we're gonna show up confidently because we've done what we needed to do that day. Whether it's move our body, take care of ourselves, fuel ourselves in the right way, so that we are at the highest expression of ourselves and feeling the best.  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. If you had a church I would attend. Yeah. Preaching. I love this so much. I, I really love, um, this idea and I, and I coach my clients in this way 'cause we definitely talk about how to navigate sales calls and I love taking the pressure off of them to do a lot of talking. Right. It's if you should be the one asking questions and guiding the call, but the, the potential client is really the one doing all the talking. And I think often our potential \[00:52:00\] clients, they've been marinating in this problem for so long that. They've kind of gotten used to it. It's like that frog in boiling water. And so it can be really powerful to ask the right questions that really remind them of the struggle and remind them of the frustrations that they have in their words. And, and back to what you said, you really get to uncover, like you allow them to uncover the reality of this situation. What, what they don't like, maybe some things that they do like, or what's important, where do they ultimately wanna be? And not so much features and benefits of what you can offer them, but what do they want their life to look like after this problem is solved? Let's, as the guide of the call, remind them of what's possible. Because often, again, they've been maring in, in this problem. \[00:53:00\] Often they forget. They forget, number one, how annoying this problem is. And they also forget at what around what's, they forget what's possible for them on the other side of this. And even just allowing them to r the room to really share and connect and uncover that for themselves or refresh that in their own mind allows them to get to that decision of, yes, this is really important for me to move forward. Or No, it's not. Either way, it's, it's truly a win because like you said, it's what is best for all. What is best for them is what is best for you. And, and also I, I like, uh, going into these calls with also a mindset, mindset shift around. You are interviewing them as much as they're interviewing \[00:54:00\] you, right? You need to make sure that they're the type of client that you wanna be pouring your heart into and, and truly helping. Do they, are they sharing things about themselves that, you know, you would be delighted to be working with them over a period of time so that that can also help shift the energy around how these calls feel? Speaker 6: Yep. I think that's one of the most important pieces is you're not there to be chosen. Let's stop showing up as if we're auditioning. This isn't a one-sided conversation. You're not doing anything wrong by selling something. You're not hurting them by selling something. You're giving them an opportunity, uh, to, to refuse or to say yes. And to your point, Kris people have normalized their pain. The frog in the hot water is a perfect example. They have normalized their pain and they have surrounded themselves with ways to justify and keep going through life. \[00:55:00\] And if we don't help them see the repercussions, the consequences to staying where they are, then why they don't have a reason to move. So we do need to take them there and help them realize, Hey, like you've normalized this, but here's what's going on. And helping them move through the decision of whether this is the right time or not. Or maybe they're okay with staying where they are, but I think when we try to convince somebody because we're trying to get chosen or we're trying to make a sale again, we're making it about us. We've gotta release the attachment to the outcome. And the idea, again, can you imagine going on a date and being like, I hope he chooses me. I hope he chooses me. Like, no, no, no, no. I'm here to choose. Also, this is a two-way street. We're gonna find out if this is best for both of us and that other person that you're gonna sell something to potentially. Deserves to have the version of you that isn't just saying yes, 'cause you need the money, but because you legit, to your point Kris you're so excited about something that they said or some way that you know that your work is going to make their life better and \[00:56:00\] they deserve somebody who's just as, as excited about working with them as they are about working with you. And that is when I believe the highest good happens is that energetic exchange. Both people are there 'cause they wanna be there, they're not there because they're poking holes or they're in fear. They're like, I wish I hadn't said yes. And you're not there because you're like, God, I just took this person 'cause I needed a client and I needed to pay my rent this month. Like, no, we're all here on our highest good. We're here because this is the right and highest best for everybody.  Speaker 5: Hmm. So beautiful. I wanna tell you about, um, when I initially developed and created my signature offer, I was charging a certain amount of money, um, and. I, I felt good charging that initially, um, because I was still feeling, feeling out like my process and my system and how is this gonna be working for everybody. And over time I refined \[00:57:00\] it, refined it worked with more and more clients and I got to a point where I felt like the value that I was delivering was way beyond what I was charging. And I started to have this feeling of. Like, I was always delighted when I got a client, but I al, I al also felt like, oh, this is gonna be a lot of work. Because I was, I was overdelivering and I was developing the offer in a way where I was, I knew how to continue to add more and more and more value. And so I got to this point where I decided to nearly double my rates and I did, and I got on my first sales call at the new rate. And Wow. Um, I was uncomfortable. The gymnastics that I was doing the, uh, offering a \[00:58:00\] discount, throwing in more free things, validate, trying to validate this new price. And I, I share this because now that's the price. That you know of the offer, and it is truly an investment that they're making in their business. And I know through and through the value of it, I honestly think it's worth way more than, than, um, what it is right now. But every time I get a client now, I'm like, yes, this feels good to me. I feel very compensated for the, the work that I'm doing and the value that I'm bringing. And I, I no longer do the gymnastics or have the discomfort, but I just wanna share like I. When you make these changes, um, whatever it is, when you're making changes in how you navigate your calls or how you price your services, it can feel very uncomfortable. And it took me a handful of calls to \[00:59:00\] really show up with that same level of confidence that I had prior to the, the price change. And so I just share that because it's messy no matter who you are. And there's like this, when you stretch outta your comfort zone, it's always gonna feel a little funky. And that's totally, totally okay. You can keep, keep going it going, keep going. And just know eventually three or four or more calls and you're gonna be, you're gonna be fine.  Speaker 6: Yep. That's such a good point that you bring up. It's, it's. Uncomfortable. It's wonky. It, I would definitely encourage people to get some practice so that there's like low risk, high reward opportunities. Like even now, I mean, I'm, I'm a sales coach. I teach people this. If I have a big conversation coming up, I have my friend, she and I do this for each other. Hey, when do you have time this week to do some role play? And you better believe I go through the entire conversation and she plays the part of the other person \[01:00:00\] and then I do the same for her. Why would we leave it to chance in any other way? Like there wasn't a time as a basketball player that I did not have a practice or a scrimmage or something else before the game. So that I knew for a fact I was prepared. I had put myself to the test in so many different ways leading up to the game. Why are we not doing that with our important conversations? So yeah, we wanna make sure, because especially when we're doing things like raising our prices, um, I remember years ago I. I was selling, I, I really wanted to leave my corporate job. And so my coach helped me come up with this plan and she was like, how many clients do you need to feel comfortable leaving? And I said, 10. And she said, okay, then go get 10 clients. So I made this giant Post-it note that said 10 clients to Freedom. I had 10 blanks on it. And I sold my coaching packages for $2,500. I filled up 10 and like I think a month. And because I was very determined, I was very focused. That's the power of getting really intentional about something, right? Specificity, like I knew these were the 10 and it was attached to my freedom. That's why I wrote it that way. It was 10 clients to freedom. And I knew once I got \[01:01:00\] those 10 clients, that I would let myself leave my job and give my notice. And my mindset coach was like, okay, now that you got those 10, like if you just sold 10 packages of 2,500, it's time for you to up your rates. And I was like, what? But like I just got really good at doing this. Yeah. And then I did, and I sold five more immediately.  Speaker 6: she said, okay, that's another sign. Like basically she was kind of, as I was going through, she's like, that's another sign. Supply and demand. It's basic business 1 0 1. Right, right. Energetically, I still had to build myself up each time I did that. And that happened over a course of three months and I tripled my rates over those three months. But to your point, it was not easy. It was still uncomfortable. And fortunately I had some momentum built, which I would say there's a lot to be said for building momentum, being very clear on who you serve, how you serve them, building community, giving people a place to belong, and then building up the excitement around it. And that doesn't mean that we still don't have to do our work. So here I was in the background building up my own ability to \[01:02:00\] show up and say the new price, which felt very scary. And to your point, it was like, let me just like throw a bunch of extra bonuses in there because I'm gonna prove that it's worth it. Right. Them, they don't know the difference from one price or another. It's just, here's my price. Regardless of whether we're throwing a million bonuses in there or not. So it, it is still a challenge, but that's part of the reason why this is a skillset that we have to continually work on.  And, and I think one of the greatest points that you just made was the power of having a coach. I would never have increased my rates had I not been working with a coach. And You too. 'cause we get comfortable there. We're like, this is fine. This is fine. Yeah. And people like it. Okay. Here I, but the coaching, like we have to have that when we are, when we're in our own business and we're trying to make changes, it's really hard when we don't have an outside guide or outside \[01:03:00\] perspective, we're in that bottle trying to read the label. That can only be read from outside. And that is the importance of having a coach and also having the reassurance and the validation that it's okay to charge more. That it's worth it. Yep. It's valuable. We need, we just need that as humans, and I want that for every. Every, uh, self-employed person on the planet, we, we all need coaches. So we, we are, uh, about to wrap up. Um, and I wanted to end our conversation with a quick story about a client that you've worked with and where did they come, where were they at when they came to you, and what did you change and what kind of results did they get?  Speaker 6: Well, the one that popped in my mind was one that just happened last week. Um, she's a private client of mine and she has been through some of my workshops over the last like year and a half and decided \[01:04:00\] to really do what we're talking about right now, get serious with herself, make an investment, and get out of her comfort zone. And she had had six months of just minimal sales and, and mostly dry spells. And we started working together about four weeks ago. Last week she signed over six figures in contracts. Wow. Yeah. And in one week, and it wasn't by accident, she got very intentional. She's extremely coachable. She is very focused on what she knows, the areas that she knows that she has to improve. She does role play with me. She writes her scripts out. She's just gotten so specific and focused and intentional in the areas that she knows that she has improvement and opportunity. And it wasn't, I mean, she sent me a message and she was like, oh my gosh, Nicole, I just signed over six figures in contracts this week. And I said, well, tell me what does it feel like? First of all, what are you doing to \[01:05:00\] celebrate and what is different? And she said, hiring a coach. Just my energy, just in and of itself, investing in myself. Started to shift things in me. When we make investments in ourselves, we valued our ourselves at a higher level. We, we think of ourselves as, wow, I, I, I like myself that much. I believe in myself that much, that I'm going to invest this much in myself. Like the belief that you have to have in yourself to make a decision like that should not go unmentioned. Like there's a lot to be said when we take a step like that, that immediately starts to shift even without like the specific tangible things that the coach is gonna teach you. Mm-hmm. Just the act of making the investment and saying yes to yourself and saying yes to the support. Especially as women, we tend to deny ourselves what we actually need. And so that was her fir her number one thing. She said, you know, of course I'm focusing more on my conversations. I'm getting better at them, but just the act of saying yes and putting myself in a different energy, um, after six months of nothing, \[01:06:00\] six figures in contracts. Speaker 5: Incredible, incredible. Nicole it has been such an epic hour with you. I can't even tell you it, it went by in like, felt like 15 minutes. Um, thank you so much for all the wisdom, all the fun, all the stories, all the metaphors. It was just such a tangible way to learn how to approach this differently and it's so relevant to all of us as service providers. So thank you. Thank you. Where can people find you if they want more of? What? If they want more of the Church of Nicole  Speaker 6: where can we find you? The Sales Church of Nicole I like it. That's the first time I've ever gotten that. Kris I'm gonna take and run with it. The Church of Nicole can be found on Instagram at the Nicole Kramer. Um, and anybody who would like to have my Discovery Call template that I mentioned earlier, happy to share that with you. Just send me a DM and let me know that you heard, uh, Kris and i's conversation and, uh, be happy to share that with you and, and help you through anything else that's going on in your world. Speaker 5: We will \[01:07:00\] definitely put that freebie in the show notes so you can see it down there too. So thank you so much.  Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/what-is-storybrand-messaging-framework ### Title: What is StoryBrand Messaging? ### Page ID: 7394736 ### Content: # What is StoryBrand Messaging? **Most businesses are unintentionally confusing their potential clients—and quietly driving them away.** Their websites read like digital brochures: packed with credentials, services, and company history… but no clear path forward. Just a wall of information sitting there like a bump on a log. In my latest episode, I share a messaging framework that’s revolutionizing how coaches and service providers connect with clients. It’s called StoryBrand—and it’s built on one simple, powerful truth: Think of any great movie—Star Wars, Hunger Games, Karate Kid. A hero has a problem, meets a guide, and transforms their life. But most businesses accidentally cast themselves as the hero. ? Cortisol keeps them engaged as they recognize their challenge ? Oxytocin builds trust as they feel seen and understood After clarifying her StoryBrand message, her close rate jumped from 20% to 95%. Same expertise.  Clear messaging creates connection. And connection creates clients. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Speaker:** Hey there, I am Kris from Red Door Stories, and I help coaches, consultants, and service providers transform their websites from ineffective online placeholders into client converting machines. Today I wanna talk about something that's revolutionized marketing for businesses of all sizes. StoryBrand messaging. If you've been struggling to connect with potential clients or feel like your marketing just isn't working, this could be exactly what you need. Let's be honest, most people make a critical mistake in their marketing. They create websites that function like a static brochure filled with their credentials, services, and company history, but offering no clear path \[00:01:00\] for your potential client. It's just information sitting there, like a bump on a log, not working for you. Here's the problem. Your potential clients don't care about all your credentials, at least not initially. What they care about is solving their problems. In today's distracted world, you have about seven seconds to capture someone's attention before they bounce to another website. Seven seconds to show them you understand their challenges and convince them you can help and then compel them to take action. StoryBrand is a messaging framework developed by Donald Miller that completely transforms how a business communicates with their customers. It's based on a simple but powerful idea. Every great story follows a universal pattern that's hardwired into our brains. Think about your favorite movies from Star Wars to the Hunger Games. They all follow a similar pattern. A hero has a problem they don't know how to solve. Then they meet a guide who \[00:02:00\] helps them succeed. The fatal mistake most businesses make is positioning themselves as the hero of their story. But in effective marketing, your customer is always the hero, and you are always the guide. The story brand framework helps you clarify your message by focusing on seven key elements, a character, which is your customer or your client who has a problem they're trying to solve. They meet a guide that is you who gives them a plan and calls them to action, helping them avoid failure and end with success. When you implement this framework, something magical happens. Instead of proving your expertise, you create an immediate emotional connection that makes people want to lean in and fully engage. This isn't just feelgood fluff, it's psychology in action. People like to believe they make logical decisions based on facts and credentials, but the reality is that emotions drive \[00:03:00\] decisions first. Then logic justifies that choice. When your messaging follows the StoryBrand framework, it triggers powerful neurochemical responses. Cortisol keeps them engaged as they recognize their challenges. Oxytocin deepens connection as they feel understood. Dopamine sparks excitement as they envision future success. Your brain literally says. Finally someone who gets it. Let me share a quick example of one of my clients, Andrea, who was struggling to articulate her value and despite being an expert coach with five years of experience, her close rate was stuck at 20% because potential clients couldn't see what made her approach unique. Through StoryBrand messaging, we uncovered the unique elements of her client's transformation story. We positioned her clients as heroes and Andrea as their guide.. The impact was dramatic. Her close rate soared from 20% to \[00:04:00\] 95%, and she started consistently hitting 50 K months. Even more significant, she gained clarity and confidence about the value of her work. StoryBrand messaging isn't about clever marketing tricks or gimmicks, it's about communicating clearly in a way that resonates with how human beings naturally process information. When you make your customer the hero and position yourself as their guide, you, create a powerful connection that transforms your marketing from forgettable to unforgettable. If you're tired of confusing your potential clients and you're ready to clarify your message, it's time to embrace StoryBrand. Your ideal clients are waiting for a guide like you to help them succeed. If you found this helpful, hit that subscribe button so you don't miss my next podcast on implementing StoryBrand on your website. And if you're ready to transform your marketing with StoryBrand, but don't wanna do it alone. Visit red door stories.com to learn how I can help you clarify your message and create \[00:05:00\] a website that actually converts. Remember, confused clients don't buy. Clear messaging leads to connection, and connection leads to clients. If this resonates with you, go to red door stories.com and book a free Money-Making Messaging call with me today. We'll take a look at the story you're telling and tune it up so you can start getting more clients on autopilot. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/find-first-clients-fast-corinne-crabtree-business-growth ### Title: Find Your First Clients Fast: Corinne Crabtree's No-BS Guide to Business Growth ### Page ID: 7394739 ### Content: # Find Your First Clients Fast: Corinne Crabtree's No-BS Guide to Business Growth Find Your First Clients Fast: Corinne Crabtree's No-BS Guide to Business Growth Corinne built an 8-figure business starting with a $20/month client.  But here's the kicker - she didn't have a fancy website, professional photos, or expensive branding. She had something way more powerful: a simple system for finding people who needed her help. In this episode of From Click to Client, Corinne breaks down her "Money Hour" practice and the exact 60-minute daily routine that consistently brings in new clients. ⏰ The 3-part Money Hour system that works in any industry ✅ How to validate your idea before investing thousands What I love about Corinne's approach is that It's all about connection over perfection.  While most coaches are stuck building the "perfect" website, she was out there solving real problems for real people. If you're tired of the tech overwhelm and ready for a back-to-basics approach that actually works, this episode is for you. **Kris:** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. I am so thrilled to have you here and I've been very much looking forward to this conversation. For those of you who don't know Corinne Crabtree, she has turned her personal 100 pound weight loss journey into two thriving businesses that, that have helped over 50 thousand women worldwide. She brings her signature no BS approach to both weight loss and business coaching. So thank you for being here. **Corinne:** Yeah, I'm excited. We're gonna I'm sure rip everybody a new one by the end of it. **Kris:** Yes. In the best way possible. So, tell me a little bit about you. I know \[00:01:00\] you've built an eight figure coaching business from scratch. Tell tell us about, your very first sale and how that happened. **Corinne:** Oh my gosh, it's such a good story. So when I, when I first started, so I lost my a hundred pounds and I knew I wanted to help women lose weight. Like, I mean, it was probably one of the first times in my life where I clearly knew what I wanted. I had, um, like when I got outta high school, I married some douche bag and blew a full college ride to nursing school, which I'm so glad I did. 'cause I. This person should have never been a nurse. Like caregiving is probably the worst thing. I would've been like nurse ratchet. So I, uh, got married and I had been like, I'd had a corporate job for a while. I'd been a like an HR type trainer. I'd just done a lot of things, but I never. I kind of knew what I wanted to be and so we got married, we had a baby and I a hundred percent knew that I did not wanna be a stay at home mother. Like it drove me batshit crazy. And so \[00:02:00\] that was how I ended up losing weight 'cause I had been overweight all my life and I was really like afraid I was gonna pass on. All the eating habits, the bullying, the miserable life that I had to my son. So that was like my first motivator. And when I lost that weight, I was tucking my shirt in one day and I looked at my husband and he was like, why are you smiling so much? And I said, I, I've never been able to tuck a shirt in and like looked like something. And I started crying and I told him that I was just so happy for the first time in my life that. I didn't just lose weight this time that I felt like I'd actually changed as a person and I wanted to help other women do the same thing. 'cause I told him, I was like, I don't think very many women are happy. I think we are all like eating our way through life and we've settled and I wanna help women lose weight, but also feel as amazing as they deserve. So. I like didn't know what to do with that. Um, I had started, uh, answering questions in the Weight Watchers message boards. This was \[00:03:00\] like 2007. So we didn't have Facebook and we didn't have all those things. And I thought, well, where do people who wanna lose weight Hangout? Well, weight Watchers was the game on the, on the online back then. Yeah. And I just started a little thread called Ask the Trainer, and every day, more and more people, I had gotten an ACE certification, but I didn't do anything with it. Mm-hmm. And so. I was taking questions like more and more every single day and lots of women were asking me about how I did it. They just, all the questions and eventually I. I started a little blog because I was getting too many questions and they were all repeating. So I was like, well, I'll start a blog and then every time somebody asks this question, I'll be able to send them there and I can just get through more of them. So I'm not even charging at this point. Mm-hmm. I am just reading it like a job. **Corinne:** And then one day I looked at my husband and I said, did you know there are trainers online that you can pay and they'll work with you. You don't even have to go to a gym. And he said, really? I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do that. And so everybody that had signed up to get my blog, there was like 120 people. Mm-hmm. I sent an email out, \[00:04:00\] it was on Valentine's Day, and the very first person that replied who wanted to work with me, her name was Corinnene. Right. And that was my maiden name. And I literally, I am serious as a heart attack. And I looked at my husband, I was like. This is meant to be, this is who I'm supposed to be, like all the things. And so I had like a handful of people who reached out and said, yeah, and I was charging $20 like a month. I mean, not much. Yeah. But that was my first clients and I treated those ladies. I mean, they might've, they, they were getting. $20,000 a month worth of service. I did everything but fly to their house and sit with them to help them with their weight problem. But that's how I got started. Just, um, being brave enough, like I just, like, I wanted to help people and I just solved the problem in front of me each day. It was like, all right, I'm getting too many people asking me questions here, so I'll start a blog that solved that problem. \[00:05:00\] Then people were wanting to know, do I have to check your blog or is there a way that you can email me? And I was like, I, I'll find out. We didn't know anything about email service providers back then. And so I like went on Yahoo and figured out how do you do that? And then had a small email list and then I just sent them like literally from my own email box. **Corinne:** the offer to work with me. And so every single time I had a new problem present, I just. Basically Yahoo. The, I wouldn't say Google, but we didn't have Google then I was yahooing uh, the answers and then just creating the next solution to the problem. **Kris:** Right. Wow. I love that. I love that. I think now in this day and age, there so many. Solutions, right? A MailChimp and which platform is your website on? And, and all these constraints that you had, you had to figure it out one at a time, but you weren't overwhelmed with options. You were, you were just like, okay, this is how I can solve this problem. How do you, how do you help your. Business \[00:06:00\] clients, um, get going. Like you work with a lot of people who are just getting started and it's very easy to get overwhelmed or kinda spread yourself too thin. There's so many tech options out there and everyone's trying to kind of get their initial degree and, and business ownership. Um, how do you guide them? In a way that that allows them not to get overwhelmed with all the tech and all the different rabbit holes that you can go down. **Corinne:** Well, in my program, I just tell 'em what to do. I think that's the easiest thing is like, just do this, don't do that. So I have a lot of experience, not only in building one business, but then I had to build a, a second business. You know, I built the business business after, you know. I guess it was 14 years of doing the weight loss side. I wanted to expand, but just telling them. But if, if you don't have someone to tell you, um, my husband uses this phrase, it's called the tyranny of choice. Mm-hmm. You have to be very careful about that because it is nice that back in the day there were no choices. In fact, there were not solutions to some of the problems. \[00:07:00\] Like, um, you couldn't go out and find a course on building a funnel. No one was talking about it. There were a few people that had funnels, but no one talked about it because they, it was just, I mean, you just have to think about how brand new all this stuff was in the day. I didn't even learn about funnels until 2015. **Kris:** Nobody would've even, no one would've known to use the word funnel for it. No. And we **Corinne:** didn't have a lot of ads, so I couldn't even get some, like even when I was, I don't even think Facebook ads were technically a thing yet. It was like you literally, you had to go find these things and you just had to try things all the time. We still have to do that now, but I, for someone who is just starting out. The very first thing that I think is the most important is your personal network. A lot of people wanna like get their website going and they wanna do all these things. I am like, you need to tell everybody about what you're doing because most of your first clients always come from your personal network. You either already know the person who needs it, \[00:08:00\] or they are one or two people away from the person who needs you. **Corinne:** we all have access to those people. So I always tell people before you invest in a lot of tech and stuff **Corinne:** Talk to everybody around you and just see if you can get someone to just purchase the problem you're trying to solve. Mm-hmm. Otherwise, I watch a lot of coaches spend a. Fuck ton of money on, uh, branding a website. Get now I'm gonna hire someone to write this part and write this part and stuff, and you haven't even validated yet if anybody will pay for your shit, if anybody. Do you have enough people with this problem? Do you have access to the people with this problem? Do you know how to talk about your problem yet in a way that people are like, well, hell yeah. Sign me up. Like that's my problem. So I always like to tell people, start running thy mouth first, because then as you're talking, like if you talk to your network. They are going to ask you questions like, well, what does that even mean? Or, I don't really understand how you help. Tell me more about what you're doing so I can tell other people. Those \[00:09:00\] are the questions that you haven't answered yet. And if you pay, let's say you pay somebody $5,000 to build you a website. They don't know how to talk about your problem. All they're gonna do is ask you for the copy. Mm-hmm. And now you're gonna be paying $5,000 for a beautiful website. You haven't even validated yet. Anybody understands what it means, you know how to talk about it, or, uh, people know, um, that this is a pro or this is a problem worthy of my cash, **Corinne:** Like for new coaches, I just think that's so important. Otherwise, you spend a lot of money you don't have yet. You know, and I don't want people wasting their money. I don't like wasting mine, and I don't want y'all wasting yours. So, **Kris:** yeah, nobody, it doesn't matter how much money you have, like there's no point in, in throwing it down the toilet. I, I think in addition to everything that you just shared, I. Number one. Uh, what I like to say is you can't, there's no shortcut through that first year of bootstrapping, meaning talking to people, solving the problem, practicing this \[00:10:00\] new job, working with the clients, because so much learning happens in that year around. How, you know, how do you, what are the words that you use? What are people responding to? What are the questions that you're getting over and over again? What are you talking about that's confusing people and you're having to clarify deeper, but. In addition to that, you also in that first year, get clarity around the people that you wanna work with and how to qualify those people and do you even like solving this problem? So, so many people, I think after that year realize. That's not exactly the problem I wanna be solving. It's actually a little bit different. Yeah. And then if you're going to build your website at that point, then you've really got some data and some information and some experience under your belt to actually know that it's worth investing in. **Corinne:** Yeah, and I think, I think in this day and age, um. Just creating a \[00:11:00\] social media channel like Instagram or Facebook, like LinkedIn, wherever you wanna be, use that as your free ass website. They're so user friendly. You can set everything up right there. And if you wanna, like let's say you spend six months on a problem that you're just like, I hate, like I hate my life solving this problem. I don't like talking about it. I don't even like coaching the people. You literally can just start over, right? You just change everything out and within about. 12 posts. No one ever knows that you did anything else. And it's, you know, it's free and cheap. You know, I always. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Go back in there and change up the copy, change your bio, change the things that you're talking about. And all of a sudden, like I love that piece about business ownership and entrepreneurship, that you get to show up however you wanna show up. Do you wanna be the expert in this, this, and this? Then be that, like go to your LinkedIn and step into that role. Yeah. There, you know, internally there might be a little bit of a \[00:12:00\] disconnect until you get more confident and more comfortable showing up as that expert. But you've got to start somewhere. And that's what one thing I love about the work that I do. With messaging and websites is I help them, their website helps them step into those future shoes, the ones that they really kind of want to become. Um, and then they, when you show up that way online, eventually in like a short period of time, you embody that and it's so empowering. Yeah, **Corinne:** and it's, you know, like in the early stages, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a website and stuff. I just watched so many coaches not figure out who they are as a coach, and then they. Invest a lot of money in getting like the bells and whistles pulled together. **Corinne:** don't know their messaging and who they are yet. Yes, totally. And that's why I think it's so much more important to talk to people. Put yourself out there, start creating like social content, \[00:13:00\] see? Mm-hmm. I mean, even if it's likes from your friends and family and it's not potential clients, you start quickly seeing like. Your friends and stuff. If they're not commenting that probably they're probably thinking, I don't understand. Or this is some who nanny, if they're commenting and saying, good luck, or, oh my gosh, such an important message, they're not gonna stop and do that unless you're breaking through the noise. And so there's just so many ways to dial this in, but you owe it to yourself to do that stuff so that you know you protect the biggest thing, which is. If I'm gonna actually make this my career, the, I just find it very difficult as a coach to go into exorbitant amounts of debt and then try to go get clients. **Corinne:** just, I'm a big believer, I've just watched too many people lose too much of their savings and stuff, and it's, you know, only in the coaching world for some reason, would we ever do that if you're gonna open a restaurant. You're not just gonna be like, I wanna open a restaurant. I think I'll sell fried chicken \[00:14:00\] and I'll just throw it over there. You know, like you do some planning, you make sure you pick a location where there's traffic, you know, like you do these things. Now in those businesses, you do have to go into some debt. You know, a lot of times you have to borrow money to start something. Mm-hmm. But you just have like, it's all, I just watched this epidemic in. It's almost like when we're starting a coaching business, we're starting Barbie Dream Store. We're not starting a business. Right. You know? And I'm like, **Corinne:** your real. If this is your dream, right, let's treat it really seriously. Mm-hmm. **Kris:** Yeah. I mean, you've got to have the proof of concept. You've got to have proof, like living proof that this is actually going to work and going to thrive before you invest anything into it. I think often with, with the branding and like all the things that you can pour your money into before you. Even really get started. I think it be, it can become for many like perfectionist type people, it can become \[00:15:00\] yet another thing to distract you from being vulnerable and just putting yourself out there, okay, if I get all this stuff perfect, the visuals, the photos, like if everything is perfect, then I can guarantee that it will succeed. And the reality is. You know, you're way better off just getting out there doing the work and proving to yourself for $0 that, that it will work. Yeah, **Corinne:** yeah. There's like the cheap way and there's the broke ass way, you know, and when we were building my business, like, and it wasn't that my husband wouldn't have spent money on it, but I'm so glad that I, I built my business on the back of basically sweat equity. And not like us spending money on things because it made me scrappy, it made me think different. It made me become a problem solver. Like there are so many skills I learned through those years where I wasn't spending money on it, that when we decided to start spending money on my business, I had already overcome a lot of the stuff. \[00:16:00\] Like every, you know, when I started spending money on my business, I was getting a return on every dollar spent. **Corinne:** You know, in the very beginning, before you have, you know, vetted a lot of stuff and done a lot of things, there's no guarantee you're gonna, like, you know, you build a website, like, and I know I keep going back to website, but website is always like the, the crown jewel to me. Everybody wants to put out a website as if it's, you know, 2002. When you're gonna be ranked number one and people are gonna find you nowadays, like there's probably a million websites built a day. Mm-hmm. Yeah. A day. Yeah. Yeah. And the likelihood of your website being found by anyone ever? Like, I mean, I have like almost 500 podcasts. I have got years of content, like all the things, and to get my website ranked. On like the fifth page of Google is a real win now. **Corinne:** You know, like you're gonna, like the first page of Google now is all sponsored ads. Right. Right. You know, so you just have to remember when you're building these things, you're never gonna \[00:17:00\] circumvent the day where you have to go and get eyeballs on it. Right. At some point, you are the one going out and saying, here's what I do. I would love to help you. What do you think? Mm-hmm. Yeah. **Kris:** Yeah. And you know, if you've got a great website, you can send those people to your website knowing that, that it's going to help you convert. But you've got to, I have a metaphor that I use, which is really, your website is like the sun in your marketing universe. But you've gotta go on to the planets and point people back to your website. Yes. Pick two planets and my, my planets are podcasting and email marketing. I don't wanna be on social media all the time. That's not one of the planets that I chose 'cause I don't enjoy that. Some people love it. Pick that as one of your planets, but point people back to your website. That's how you get those warm leads versus trying to compete with Google algorithm and trying to get on that front page. I mean, it, the, the industry, especially the coaching industry is so saturated. It, \[00:18:00\] it's, it is hard to stand out and, um, even when you do it just. It's so much more effective when you can kind of bring those warm leads to your website and then convert them. **Corinne:** Yeah. And you know, it's so smart of you to pick email and um, podcasting because even in social now is like the Google algorithm these days, **Corinne:** you, like I always tell people. I want you to post on social. It's free. Like it's hard to compete with free in the beginning, right? But you posting on social doesn't get you clients. When you're posting on social, you have to go to the places where the clients are on social **Corinne:** Offer value there. It's like, it's almost like a. Social is like the mini sun. It's like the mood now, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We get 'em to your social where they are like, oh gosh, she has this free thing. Oh gosh, she talks about this. I wanna follow her. I wanna do all these things. And then that points to the sun. That is what points to your list and \[00:19:00\] whatnot. Yeah. So it's all like, I think for newer, for newer people involved in all this, like the real lesson though, is. Your job is to get eyes on your product. I think when we focus so hard on our branding and our logo and our websites and we, the components of our product, we forget. No one sees it unless you go get them. Totally right. And that's why I always like to tell people at the beginning. Do the cheapest thing first. Mm-hmm. Get really good at getting eyeballs right. Get really good at directing people to you. Mm-hmm. And then you can layer in a website, you can layer in the other things because now you've got traction. The hardest part is getting the eyeballs. That is the absolutely hardest. **Kris:** Yeah, and I think that's what I, one thing I love about podcasting is that you get immediate a, as a podcast guest, right? You get immediate access to a group of listeners that somebody has cultivated and built over time, and you get immediate trust because they've welcomed you to the show and you. Get to have this \[00:20:00\] very fruitful, organic, enjoyable, pretty effortless conversation. Right? Just talking about the things that you love to talk about, people with the people that resonate with you. You're in their ears. Like you can't get closer to their brain than being in, in their earbuds. And then they can come find you if, if you're, if they're a right fit client and, and they resonate with you. So that's, that's one way. And, and it's also ridiculously affordable, like pretty much free usually. Um, a lot of podcast hosts are looking for guests and that can be a great, **Kris:** Yeah. Way to get eyeballs on your website and also to practice talking about your area of expertise. I know my first year of podcasting was really fun, but I, you know, it took me a while to kind of get comfortable with talking about what I love to talk about, so. Um, you, you are known for something called your Money Hour practice. \[00:21:00\] Mm-hmm. Can you walk us through like what that, what that actually looks like in a typical, typical day? **Corinne:** Yes. So I just redid it and we're getting ready to. Change it up for our members. So if any of my members are listening, this is a little different than the way I teach it inside, but we're gonna reshoot that video for y'all. So money hour is where I tell everybody there is nothing more important in your business every day that you work than getting clients. If you're not actively looking for those eyeballs, if you're not actively looking for clients, you do not have a business period. So when you're first starting out, money hour is very tactical. The first 20 minutes I tell people to go and look for groups. Places where people are hanging out on the internet talking about the problem you solve. So let's just use weight loss as an example. I might go join the Weight Watchers Facebook group. I might start following, um, some people on Instagram who, uh, have.\[00:22:00\] That do weight loss similar to me, but not exactly like I do. So like I follow a lot of people who are big into macros and calorie counting because I teach emotional weight loss. So we do a lot of emotional eating stuff. So I follow people who are gonna naturally have people looking to lose weight. And a small group of those are probably gonna be women who are struggling with emotional eating and on these major accounts, they are going to be commenting. Saying, oh, I, you know, I do so good on counting, um, my calories, you know, until the weekend. I don't know why I always blow it. They're not going to get that help on that account. So that's where I kind of swoop in and I come in and I'm just hoping there. So the first 20 minutes is dedicated to offering value. You are not saying, come work with me. You're not sliding in the dms, or, you know, DM me and I'll give you more information. You're not doing any of that shit. You are literally just being of service and getting known in groups and whatnot as someone who is of service. Now, the second 20 minutes is where you take \[00:23:00\] something that you answered and you literally create a social post from it. So. If somebody asked a question, you just would create a quote graphic that just had that question, and then you take your response copy paste, and that is now your caption. It is the easiest way to have a full social account. Yep. Without doing any extra work. You don't gotta brainstorm or nothing because if your social account is literally quote graphics of questions your people ask all the time. You're gonna become like, like people are gonna wanna follow that. If you don't like typing, you can always just shoot a quick video. I mean, every single day in Facebook or on Instagram, if you prefer to do it video style, you can just, like today I'm answering this question and you just riff and post. That's all you gotta do. So that's your second piece. The third piece is now where we are gonna go and we are going to dive deeper with people who are commenting and following every new follower. You ever get, you DM them and you thank them for following you, and you ask them, is there anything you would like for me to post about on \[00:24:00\] my account? That opens up a conversation. They will say, I would love for you to do this. Then you're just gonna create that post in a few days, and then you're going to DM them back and say like, Hey, I just, I wanted to let you know, read my post today. I answered your question. And then you are going to, people are naturally, when they start following you, they're gonna start commenting. You're gonna always be answering your comments and then people will start DMing you. You would be surprised that when you start helping people, that they will DM you. 'cause they won't wanna ask you publicly do you work with people or whatever, but they may slide into your dms. Mm-hmm. And that's always the holy grail. The other thing you can do during that 20 minutes is if you've noticed that someone is now becoming a routine commenter. You're and, and you're like working back and forth with them or stuff. There's usually what I call a natural point to where you want to slide into their dms. It's no longer in the like cold area. You are both warmed up and you kind of go in and you just say like, Hey. Um, I just wanna make sure, you know, I have this free resource. \[00:25:00\] I think it would really help you or, um, if you're a podcast or you've been on a podcast, you can like, offer them a podcast and you could say like, I would love to get on a consult call with you. I just feel like I could really help you and if you wanna book, here's where you can book. Mm-hmm. But we've like, the way that I like to do it is, I think it takes a little longer, but. Most people don't like feeling sleazy. If you wanna be super aggressive, you can, I don't think anything is sleazy. I honestly don't. I just know that we sometimes feel sleazy. Mm-hmm. And so if you're okay with speeding that process up, you can. But if you don't, this is such a good way of getting known, getting followers, getting people into your ecosystem, and you can be like, as people start following you, that's when you, if you've got a free thing about every third or fourth day, just put into the, the post that you do. Sign up for my free thing, DM me and I'll send you the link. You can do things like that, but that is what I call the minimum baseline If you are in business. Like if you can't spend an hour a day \[00:26:00\] working to get eyeballs, it is going to be really hard to have a coaching business unless you have access to a market. So let's say I've, I have a few coaches who have quit a job, but on good terms. And where they work, like had, you know, 20 or 30,000 providers or something, and they're like, well, now that you're leaving, we would still love to contract. You. Could you come in and speak and you can pitch your program and stuff? If you already have access like that, you do not need to be doing this. You need to be working with those people. But most of us who are coaches, we have a wild hair up our ass that we wanna help people do X and we don't have access to the market. We've got to go get access to them. And then I tell people now, if you've quit your job and you were seriously making a run at being a coach, let's say you've got five days a week and you're gonna work eight hours a day. If it was Corinnene, and this is what I used to do, I had, back when I first started, I had two and a half hours every single day, Monday through Friday, while my \[00:27:00\] son was at Mother's Day Out, he was autistic. And so when he was home. There was no working. Logan was full time. **Corinne:** So when he was at Mother's Day Out, I spent two and a half hours in the Weight Watchers message board. Well, I spent two hours in Weight Watchers message board, and I spent 30 minutes turning it into a blog, and that is what I did every single day. Mm-hmm. And then if I needed extra time, I worked at night when he would go to bed. But most of the time that was all I had. But I spent like all my time. Networking, making sure that I was driving eyeballs, and then it ended up paying off when I was ready to turn it on. And then when he went to, uh, like regular, like preschool type stuff, I had more time. I still spent the most of my time was spent still answering questions in message boards, getting my blog up, and then interacting with people who had expressed interest in the email. That was like the old school dms, right? I was working that email and I mean some people to get 'em to pay me that $20, I had to talk to \[00:28:00\] them for like eight hours in email time before they were ready to convert, and I was happy to do it. **Kris:** Yep. Wow. It's so beautiful. I love how you break it down into those three steps and it's, it's truly timeless. Yes. The technology has shifted a little bit from Weight Watchers message board to Instagram dms, but the fundamental. Process is the same, and it's, it truly is timeless. It's about connecting with people, building trust, showing up with a, a helpful, kind, generous heart, truly wanting to serve. And then, you know, letting that organically shift into a conversation where you can naturally. Ask, do you wanna solve this problem? I can help you do that. And then they get on a call like the, the fastest way to get a client is to get them on a call with you. But there's a process to nurture their relationship before they're ready and willing to do that. **Corinne:** especially calls, 'cause \[00:29:00\] people are these days. Like I have bought some really expensive programs through texting and they wanted me on a consult call so bad. And I'm like, no, if we can't bang it out in the text, I'm not doing it. Because I just felt like I barely call my mother much less wanna be on a consult call with anybody in the world. **Corinne:** And so, yeah, we just have to think about how people are nowadays. You know, like, you know, used to be a consult call. Sounded like a damn good idea to a lot of people nowadays. People move faster and I, I am not poo-pooing the consult call I tell my people to get 'em on a call too. But you have to remember, you've got to warm that relationship up because getting on a phone call nowadays for most people, I gotta really trust you. I don't wanna waste my time. Right. Time is rush. And once we came through Covid, I think everybody had a collective reset over how much they wanted to spend their, like how they wanted to spend their time. Mm-hmm. **Kris:** And Well, and how valuable it is, right? Yes. And how, yes. I, I know I used to give away my time a lot. I think between pre \[00:30:00\] Covid V and just preki, you know, I gave away a lot of my time 'cause I had a, a, an abundance of it. And now it's like, I'm kind of like you, where I've got two and a half hours, I've gotta make the most of it and do the thing that's gonna get me the biggest return. And I think as far as, um. People booking calls. Nobody wants to get on a sales call. Nobody, nobody wants to be sold to. They want help. They wanna solve their problem and they want to get value from that call. So it's really important that we position. Honestly position those calls as ways to serve and truly help and yes, potentially give them an aha or solve a micro problem so they can really experience what it's like for us to help them. Then they're much more likely to wanna take that next step. So, absolutely. Yeah. Tell me, um, you know, in today's climate right now, I feel like. \[00:31:00\] Politically, and we don't have to get into politics, but I feel like there's a lot of uncertainty and I think a lot of people are holding onto their money in ways they haven't in the last decade or so. Um, I'm curious, like what, how are you communicating about this with your, your students? And are you hearing about this from your students? **Corinne:** Yes. I like for sure, like this is, I think, the problem to solve overall for all of us, but it's, it's so funny because I don't think the solution is any different than it used to be. I do think people when pre COVID. The, the nice thing was, is that we still hadn't really hit a boom yet on like, ads weren't that saturated just yet. They were becoming more saturated, but they still worked really well. There was just a lot of things that were, it wasn't like it was when Covid hit and then when Covid hit, people were spending money because they were bored. Lot of people were home and a \[00:32:00\] lot of people were wanting to get coaching. People were at an inflection point in their life. They had the time finally to work on things. So selling became pretty easy online during about a two year window. So from 20 to 22, um, you could put out about any course you wanted, you could, you could put out anything. And people were, um, like outside of the first, about six weeks of covid. People suddenly like just wanted to spend money, they were bored. Totally. You know, and it would, it became like a coping mechanism. Then about 2022, I think when inflation kind of started hitting and people and everything was opening back up and time was getting more scarce and you know, I've already taken like 400 courses and like I'm so, I, you know, I spent two years on a Zoom call. I don't want any more Zoom calls. You know, things started changing and so I definitely think it's. Harder to sell now, but the, the only thing I think that's really changed is prior to Covid and the very beginning of co, \[00:33:00\] prior to covid, it was a lot of, you could use a lot of urgency, you could use a lot of scarcity, you could use a lot of psychological hacks. Mm-hmm. And that was enough. Then when Covid hit, you could use that. And even if you just said, I got a new thing, you should buy it. People were just buying like, I mean, there was a lot of people that, uh, businesses took off simply because it was easy, so we weren't as afraid. Now you need a little bit of the psychology, but we have to go deep in relationship now. It is, it's going to take longer to get your clients. When I say that there is a way to speed the process up. Um, but it still is gonna take, uh, I, there's a study that Google did, um, I think it was last year or something, but like the average person before, they're buying something kind of like more in our space. One, they wanna see you in like four different places before they trust you. Like, and that means I've seen you on social, I've heard you on a podcast. Um, Ooh, I, I caught a video of you one day. Whether that's on social, you know, like I've seen it video, I've seen you, you know, and \[00:34:00\] emailed, like, you emailed me. I got your free thing. Mm-hmm. I visited your website. All of those are like the different touch points. So there's a million of them and you know, yeah. Then. They need seven hours of consumed content now. **Corinne:** The average. And that includes reading time, listening time, all this other kind of stuff. And then the average person doesn't buy until they've been asked to take a step with you about 11 times. Wow. So like, let's say you want somebody on a consult call, the average is about the 11th time you've asked about the, you know. Talked about a so, uh, consult call and stuff is about when somebody's going to flip. And so I don't say that to scare people. It's to show you that, you know, when you complain that you've sent three emails, well, I DMed them once. I don't understand where my people are. Mm-hmm. It is because you haven't really even scratched the surface with them yet when it comes to trusting you and valuing you. **Corinne:** So the way we speed that process up is to make sure you have \[00:35:00\] processes. So if you know if you're gonna have a podcast, you better, you better do it every week. Don't be a ghoster if you're gonna have a social channel. You better, like regularly post. Don't be a ghost poster. If you're gonna DM someone, you should DM them. Like you've got to come up with the things that you're gonna do. If you're gonna have a freebie. You need a good follow up sequence, an automated one. Mm-hmm. And like you just have to think through things. You can get people through all of that stuff pretty fast. Seven hours sounds long, but it's not really long. Mm-hmm. Not. When you think about the amount of emails that, I mean, you're gonna have a weekly newsletter, you're gonna have your funnel emails, you're probably gonna have social posts they can read, you may be guessing on podcasts that you can send them an email and say like, Hey, it was just on this podcast. Take a listen. You know, if you've been thinking of this, there are ways to speed it up. And so I think what I'm telling my people is you've got to be willing to talk to people and be there for them. Hold their hand through the sales process. Now, um, there's automation, but we have to put the, the real person back in. So \[00:36:00\] like in our business, you know, we have automated funnels, but every email always says, you know, if you have any questions, please reply. We get replies every single day. Mm-hmm. And a real human is talking to them about their real problem. Then now walking them through joining our $59 membership. We used to not have to do that stuff, but now we get better conversions doing that. **Kris:** hard, right? It's not that hard. It's not that hard. Mm-hmm. **Corinne:** Yeah. No, it makes money. It's better to be doing things like that than it is to be sitting there and tinkering with dumb shit all day long in your business. **Corinne:** I will watch people making almost no money. Worry endlessly about a process like building out something in Notion or Clickup and like having all these steps and stuff, and I'm like, what? For the two clients you have like, go get more clients. You know, you don't need a system yet, but people will wanna piddle with stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Graphics and get photo shoots done and stuff. I'm like, who needs a photo shoot if you \[00:37:00\] got an iPhone? Oh yeah. Do not pay a photographer. Right. You know, I only pay a photographer now. **Corinne:** But God, I'm at eight figures so I can afford, because I don't wanna take my own photos anymore. But I'm gonna tell you, girl, I didn't ever have a photo shoot back in the day, and we didn't even have iPhones working like. I was like just a Polaroid on the internet. Yeah. Like You know, back to kind of that nurturing the relationship piece, I find people wanna work with people that they've spent time with. Right. So I. You need to put out ways for people to spend time with you, and video is such a powerful way to do that. People don't wanna work with the best of the best. They wanna work with the one they feel the most connected to. The way they feel connected to us is by spending time with us. And for example, if you have a freebie, you could do a downloadable checklist. Someone might download the PDF. They might open it, they might not, but if you deliver that freebie \[00:38:00\] in a five minute video, they have just spent five minutes with you and, and you're way farther ahead of, of the game. In that way than you would be with a downloadable PDF. If you're feeling shy or timid or whatever, just get on the video. The production quality does not have to be good. People don't care as long as they can hear you. That's all they care about. As long as you can help them solve as small problem and as long as you can over not overwhelm them. I think I've had clients that I've worked with, like their freebie is actually like. Um, loads of information, right? And it's too much. People need a micro win in a short period of time, and they just, they just wanna get to know you. So, um, **Corinne:** well, if this makes your audience feel any better right now, the content that actually pops best, whether that's in social or just in funnels and stuff, is stuff that's filmed vertically on a phone. **Corinne:** hate to say that \[00:39:00\] because I now have a hundred K studio built in my own home for filming. Yeah. And whenever we do, um, now when I do my courses and things like that, we of course, you know, zoom calls and what I, I use my studio, but when we want, uh, a freebie or, uh, we wanna test something **Corinne:** Or we wanna put it on social, they make me get my phone out and they say, and don't wear your makeup. Like, can you look like you didn't shower today? Right. Because people wanna see authenticity, they wanna feel like you're talking to them. They wanna feel like we're just sitting around having a conversation. Yeah. Right. And that is the concept that's doing the best right now. So whenever anybody tells me, like if you're a perfectionist sitting out there like worried about what you're gonna sound like, whatever. I'm like, you don't even need your earbuds in. Mm-hmm. People literally don't give a shit. They're just like, just talking to your phone. I don't care if they're staring right up your nose. **Kris:** Totally. Yeah. Go on a walk. You know, I, I did a video the other day and I was just on a walk around the park at my house and it, and it, if they're, if they can feel like they're with me on a walk, I mean, that's a pretty \[00:40:00\] intimate experience. There's an yes, an email marketing genius that I follow that he's just silly. Like he is a, he is a comedian at heart and. He got on one of those like two wheel kind of things that people ride around and he had a gallon of milk and he was filming himself doing this. And it was just like, it was so wacky and you don't have to be wacky, but it was just, you know, he was just having fun. And I think people appreciate that, like, that authenticity and, and a little bit of fun. It doesn't have to be so serious all the time. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay. So Corinnene, I'm gonna ask you one more question and then we're gonna wrap up. What, what is the one thing, let's get back to websites a little bit. What's the one thing that every Coach's website has to have that most of them don't have? Oh, gosh. **Corinne:** That they don't have. \[00:41:00\] Well, here's what you, let me answer it this way. Okay. The one thing you must have is not a lot of shit on there. I know that sounds like kind of like answering it weird, but I think the biggest mistake I watch coaches do is they wanna have an about page and they want to have a work with me page and they want to have a freebie page and they want to have. Like, here's every little thing. Here's all the other little freebies I've ever offered in my entire lifetime. And you know, in case you don't wanna work with me this way, you could work with me this way. I like I for years, for years, if you went to my weight loss site, the only button on there was get my free course. You could not. Find my blog. You could not listen to my podcast. You could not find anything else on that page other than that. And unless you, like, I just, I was just like, if they can Google all that great **Corinne:** Like everything was available on the internet, but there was one button because when they landed on that page, I didn't want them to know about my membership. I didn't want them to know anything. I just wanted as \[00:42:00\] many people on my email list as I possibly could get. And I think that we forget that when we give people lots of choices, they make no choices. Yes. To. So if I, if I was first starting out, I'd have a webpage and it would have nothing to do with my coaching service. I would have a webpage that sold my freebie. Mm-hmm. And I would always be directing people there. Mm-hmm. And just trying to get them there. And then like, let's say you have like coaching website.com, like slash free, free course. It's the main thing. Now you could have slash about me slash podcast slash whatever, but no buttons linking to it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That means that if you're on Google and for some reason somebody looks up, you know, coaching website because they had a great podcast on X, Y, z, I might get indexed and be sent there, but you just have to think about this, y'all the most important thing. It's always to get people's email addresses. 'cause once you have an email address, you can talk to them anytime you want. You can promote your podcast to them. You can get them listening to your \[00:43:00\] podcast. You can get them doing anything you want. You can put out your consult calls, your offers and stuff. If you do not have their website or you don't have their email address and they're just listening to your podcast. You gotta hope that they listen to it the week that you promote something. Mm-hmm. You know, most people don't listen to your podcast every single week. They listen to it every, not every now and then. Like I have people, I don't even have one podcast anymore, not one single podcast I listen to every single week. I have a lot of podcasts that download, or that I subscribe to, and I listen to about every fourth or fifth episode. Mm-hmm. People just don't consume content like they used to. No. So if I'm gonna get their attention, I want to get their attention to the one thing that makes it easy for me to stay in touch with them. And so that's probably what would be on my website. And it would just be talking about this is my freebie and how it helps you. This is the problem my freebie solves. Then you can have like coaching website.com/. Program. Mm-hmm. And then when \[00:44:00\] people, like, when you send out your emails, you're just sending them straight to that page and then that page doesn't have your freebie on there, buttons and stuff. It's like that page is in the website, but it's literally, this is why you should schedule a consult call with me. So like, if I'm, if I'm gonna, if my first step to work with Corinnene is a consult call, I'm not telling 'em at all about my program. I'm telling 'em about my consult call. What, what are we gonna be doing on this call that's gonna help you? Like, and I always tell my people, name it something really great, like offer to do an audit, offer to do something where they feel like they get some exchange for the time. Right. And I would be selling that because I always think that every step, you're just trying to sell them to the next one. Mm-hmm. And so when you map out your ecosystem, like the first thing I need them to do is to have a freebie so I can then I can sell 'em my consult call. Then when they get on my call now, I can have a page that talks all about my program. If I don't convert them on the call, then I can just send them to the page where the payment link is. But it kind of goes over the \[00:45:00\] stuff, you know, like you're just always thinking about what is the next thing, the next step, and then I would just only send people and make them lost in the one step. Most people send them to like, well, I've got like 50 things I have people do. So I send them and I'm just like. Hope for the best that they pick the one that want them do. **Kris:** Right? It's like choose. Choose your own adventure, right? You send them to your website and so many coaches feel like their website needs to be. A resume plus Wikipedia, plus educational and, and all the things. And your website is actually not the resource for that. That's why we have Google, and I'm a big fan of the one page website with the one Call to action, like, don't give them another decision to make. Tell them exactly what you want them to do, and then when you get on that. Consult call with them. You're, you're the one to diagnose the problem that they have and how you can solve it. You don't want to show them the eight ways in which you solve problems. You don't go to the doctor \[00:46:00\] and the doctor doesn't. Help you with your cough. And then also tell you, by the way, if you ever have chicken pox, I can help you. I'm really good at, you know, solving the chicken pox problem. Like we, they want to be told what to do and it's our job not to load them up with more decisions and, um, yeah, choose your own adventure. Scavenger hunt essentially is what most websites are. So, yeah, I always, **Corinne:** well, I was just. The only people that I think that can get away with having multiple calls to action are people that have been in this for a long time and they know. Best how to sell. Like they already know how many people are, like, how often they're driving free content, like people who are freebie seekers versus paid seekers. You know, when you see people like a Jenna Kutcher or like bigger names that have multiple things, they have spent a lot of time watching people go through their website and organizing it in such a way. Where the people really aren't choosing their own adventure. \[00:47:00\] Things are put in particular orders until you get that level of marketing and sales skill. A one page is always best. Even on my stuff now, we, we, I limit myself. I don't put a lot of stuff out there for a reason because I feel like even to this day, if I'm gonna make a error, I want unforced errors. It's like if we're gonna have an error, we're gonna err on the side of too many people signing up for the free thing that we're ready to buy versus not enough clients because they didn't know what to do. **Kris:** Right. A hundred percent. Yeah. Wow. Corrine, this has been such a wonderful, insightful conversation. Tell my listeners where they can find you. **Corinne:** So you can go, like, if you wanna get information, if you, if like if you need to work on emotional heating, just go to no bs weightloss.com and if you need help with your business, you can go to no BS business.com. **Kris:** Amazing. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. \[00:48:00\] Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/website-marketing-hub-story-driven-client-attraction ### Title: Why Your Website Should Be Your Marketing Hub ### Page ID: 7394740 ### Content: # Why Your Website Should Be Your Marketing Hub You're probably exhausting yourself trying to be everywhere at once.  Social media, networking events, email newsletters, podcasts... it's like spinning plates while riding a unicycle. **But what if I told you there's a way to do LESS marketing and get BETTER results?** In this episode, I share the solar system approach to marketing that's been a game-changer for myself and my clients.  ? Why your website should be the sun (not just another planet)  ? How to choose just 2 marketing activities and forget the rest  ? The story that made one client cry and book immediately **The truth is, most websites are digital brochures built for a world that no longer exists.**  People no longer have time to figure out what you do.  You’ve got to spell it out for them in plain english. And help them understand why it matters. That's why I help my clients turn their websites into a story-driven client attraction system that does the selling FOR them. My client, Dominick, went from scattered messaging to a 6:1 return on his Facebook ads, all because we created one powerful story and made his website the centerpiece of everything. Ready to stop the marketing madness and create a simple system that actually works? Listen now and discover how to make your website your top sales employee. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Speaker:** Hey, there, I am Kris Jones from Red Door Stories, and today I wanna talk about something costing many business owners thousands of dollars in lost revenue. It's treating your website as just another marketing checkbox. Think about your marketing to-do list right now. Social media posts, email newsletters, networking events, podcasts, maybe even paid ads. It's exhausting, right? It's like spinning plates while riding a unicycle. What if there's a better way, one that lets you do less marketing, but get better results? That's what I wanna share today. I. Picture our solar system. The sun sits at the center. Everything else orbits around it. Your marketing \[00:01:00\] should work the same way. Your website isn't just another marketing planet, it's the sun, the center of your marketing universe. Everything else points people to it. Most business owners try to convert clients directly on LinkedIn or at networking events. It's inefficient. These platforms should have one job guide people to your website. Let your website do this selling for you. This approach is liberating. You don't need to be everywhere anymore. Choose just two marketing activities you enjoy. Drive people to the website and forget the rest. Use them to point people back to your website and let your website handle the conversion for you. With your website as a marketing hub, you create a clear path for clients. You maintain consistent messaging. You free up time to serve your current clients. You build a system that doesn't burn you out. But here's the problem. Most websites aren't equipped to be marketing hubs. They're digital brochures. They're \[00:02:00\] static collections of our credentials and services. Kind of like a resume. There's no clear path for your visitor. These websites were built for a world that no longer exists. A world where people read every word. Where they had time to figure out what you do Today, we juggle endless distractions while making important decisions. So what's the solution? Transform your website into a story-driven client attraction system. Tell the right story. Make your potential client the hero and position yourself as their guide. This creates an immediate emotional connection making people want to engage with you. A story-driven website captures attention in seven seconds. It makes clients feel understood. It positions you as the clear, obvious choice, and it justifies your rates. It also fills your calendar with ideal clients. Let me share an example. My client, Dominick, is a certified muscle systems expert. He was exhausting \[00:03:00\] himself with scattered marketing. His messaging was inconsistent and he attracted poorly qualified leads. He was frustrated and his marketing was all over the place. He was wasting time with the wrong leads. We created one powerful message for his story-driven website. We focused on just two marketing channels and everything directed back to his website. The impact of this was immediate. His Facebook ads achieved a six to one return. A prospect was so moved by his messaging that she actually cried when she read it, and then booked a call with him immediately. He made back the investment of working with me 20 times over in one weekend. Now he is less stressed. His marketing works for him instead of the opposite. And here's the truth. You don't need to do it all. You don't need to be everywhere. You need one powerful website as your marketing hub. When your website tells a compelling story, it becomes your most powerful marketing tool. It can work \[00:04:00\] tirelessly so you can focus on what matters. If this helps hit subscribe or follow to make sure you get notified of my next episode. Don't miss my next video on creating a story driven website ready to transform your website. Visit red door stories.com and book a moneymaking messaging call with me. We will walk through your story and look at what's working and what isn't and get it all tuned up. Remember, while others shout, look at my credentials, your story whispers. I understand you, and that makes all the difference. Thanks for watching and listening, and I'll see you next time. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/simplify-business-10-hour-workweek-neill-williams ### Title: Why Hard Work + Time Isn't the Only Success Formula ft. Neill Williams ### Page ID: 7394742 ### Content: # Why Hard Work + Time Isn't the Only Success Formula ft. Neill Williams Why Hard Work + Time Isn't the Only Success Formula ft. Neill Williams Neill was working 60+ hour weeks as a partner-track actuary, exhausted and missing precious time with her newborn son.  She didn't just cut back her hours. She systematically scaled down to 30 hours while producing the SAME results (sometimes more) than her colleagues working twice as much. And now? She runs a thriving coaching business in just 10 hours per week. ? The belief shift that unlocks time freedom ( it's not what you think)  ? Her simple time-blocking strategy that eliminates "Where did my day go?" syndrome ✨ Why "creating time" is more powerful than "managing time" What I love most about Neill's approach is how she helped me trust my own instincts about my business.  When everyone was telling me to "scale, scale, scale" with group programs, she said the words that changed everything:  **"Be careful what you build because you don't want to look back and wish you hadn't."** That gentle guidance brought me back to what felt true for me.  And it's why I'm still thriving doing one-on-one work today. If you're feeling overwhelmed by your to-do list and wondering if there's a better way, this episode is for you. **Kris:** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast. I am beyond delighted today to have my dear friend, my mentor, my coach, the brilliant Neil Williams. She has been instrumental in my entrepreneurial journey in helping me simplify my business and really, uh, target my focus. So I'm really doing the work that I'm put on the planet to do, that I am, um, Using my greatest gifts with every one of my clients. And before we hopped on the call, um, Neil and I were talking about how \[00:01:00\] she has helped me in so many ways. So I'm going to fill you in on that, uh, today. And really, we're going to talk about how to simplify our lives as business owners, how to do, how to set ourself up with tools and strategies and mindsets that really allow us to do more of the work that we love and less of the marketing and the minutiae and the to do's that come with being a business owner. So um, Neil, welcome. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. It's so wonderful to be here. I love chatting with you and that was quite the introduction. Hopefully the show lives up to that. **Kris:** I know it will. I know it will. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. **Neill:** So I'm a productivity coach, mindset coach. So I help, um, high achieving people in corporate or our high achieving entrepreneurs, who I'm sure there are many listening to the show really simplify work less. But achieve \[00:02:00\] their goals, what they want. I really don't, I, this is kind of like the thing that I did in the corporate world that I took into starting my business was proving to myself that the amount of time that I spent doing something did not. It doesn't mean success or failure. It really is, it's a different equation. **Kris:** What's what's the situation that comes to mind when you think about that? Like when you had that aha, like, Oh my gosh, I hardly spent any time on this and I'm getting much greater results than when I used to spend a lot more time on it. What? Give me, give me an example. **Neill:** Well, it started with when I was in the corporate worlds. Um, and this has been 15 years ago. Yeah, my son is 15. So about 15 years ago, had a baby. I was, um, partner track in a firm. I was an actuary. If you don't know what that is, you can Google it. It's a numbers job. Nobody knows what it is, but in any case, I was working 60 plus hours per week. That wasn't the way that I wanted to, um, have my life structured in terms of having the time that I wanted to be with my son as a mom. So I started really diving into this whole \[00:03:00\] productivity time management thing, and I was like, if I could just work like 30 hours per week, I feel like I'd have like the right balance. And so the way that I approached it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to work less. It was, I'm going to still produce the same amount, but I'm going to figure out how to do it in less time. And I slowly over a little bit of time, probably took me a year, maybe two years max, I scaled all the way back to 30 hours. And I was, but I was producing the same amount of, not more as anyone else in the company. And so I was like, wow, this is really powerful. I feel like other people should know this. **Neill:** so then I started my own business on the side to help other people do similar things. Yes. **Kris:** Got it. Okay. And so did anybody in that you are working with know that you are dramatically like being more efficient and working less? Okay. **Neill:** Yeah. It wasn't well respected. Um, I guess well received in the world that I was in because. Working overtime was like this badge \[00:04:00\] of honor. It was like, you're at the top of the food chain if you have the highest number of overtime hours. And for a long time, I bought into that. They, at our team meetings, they would put up a chart and it would show everybody's overtime hours for the like year to date. And I was always like, number one, number two. And I was like, so damn proud of that. **Kris:** it's so telling of corporate culture that there's this like a wall of like accolades based on amount of overtime hours and not at all related to productivity, right? **Neill:** It was so silly when I, once I like saw it, I was like, this is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. It was like, we were actually demotivating any productive efforts because You're, you're gonna, if overtime is the answer is the goal, then you're going to inflate everything that you do and make it take longer, which is the opposite of efficiency. So it didn't make sense to me. So, but that's the way that culture was. That's it. And it's fine. It can stay that way. I was not willing to stay there \[00:05:00\] and continue to be involved in that machine. **Kris:** Right. Right. It's so amazing that you had that awareness. And I love, I didn't realize that the timing of all this happened around the time that you had your son. Yeah. Because the way that you helped me is when I had my son and I was feeling that same sense of like overwhelm, um, working more is going to get me more results. And you totally shifted that perspective for me. But the gift of having a child I think is so huge in for women helping us and men too, I'm sure. But like helping us really. Realize, like, we actually don't have the capacity for operating in this way anymore, and nor do we want to. Right. **Neill:** And it's not necessary. That's the thing that I think we think that, um, we have to in order to achieve whatever success metric that we're going for. \[00:06:00\] And that, that alone changed my life because I realized. The hard work plus amount of time does not, is not the only formula for success. It might work for some people, but it's not the only one. I don't think it works for most working moms. Most working moms don't want to be on that kind of trajectory. **Neill:** nearly impossible to sustain for long periods of time. **Kris:** Truly, truly. So what did you, what were some of the initial things that you, that, that started working for you then that you're still implementing now? Yeah. **Neill:** So I worked on my brain. Um, so we can talk about a couple of mindset things, which was the most powerful piece because I didn't know that I can't work on my brain or think differently about things. That's the reason I got certified as a coach and then certified as a master coach and went down that whole route. But there were also tactical things that I did as well. So, I mean, I started really, my tendency is once I'm interested in something is I just \[00:07:00\] go research the heck out of it. Like I consume everything I can about it. I try to educate myself and then I start applying the things that I learned. So there was this one principle that told me that. We as humans have this tendency to expand any activity to fill the amount of time that we give it. And I was like, wait a minute, if that's true, then I can just set the time. And then I can figure out how to get the thing done in the amount of time that I want to spend on it. That was like such a huge shift. If it felt like. Um, really revelatory, even though it's not a new idea. Um, so I started simply like putting things on my calendar in time blocks and not just like work on client, whatever it was, get X done. And so that every time block had something where I was accomplishing something. **Neill:** that felt great because I didn't, I no longer was I leaving my day feeling like. I sat here for 12 hours and I don't even know what I did. It was like, oh, I got this done and this done and this done, this done, this done. I could literally see the work accomplished. So that was like \[00:08:00\] the biggest, like probably the most powerful first tactical strategy that I used. Um, and then I would say the other thing that I learned is that. Whatever we decide is true. That's what we're going to build evidence for. We're going to have the experience of that. So in my mind, the thought that ran rampant over and over was, there's not enough time. I can't get it all done. All those flavors of thoughts. And I was like, okay. So I'm actually creating that experience for myself because I'm believing that to be true. But what if I just tried to believe something else is true? Like **Neill:** always get everything done. I have plenty of time. So I started just practicing those ideas in my mind. And that is the experience that I started creating. **Neill:** So I would say those two are both very, very powerful and kind of set me on the trajectory towards, you know, shrinking back my work week, um, by 50%. **Kris:** Incredible. Incredible. And then at what point, you know, you, you started kind of a side gig with coaching. At what point did you decide, just decide, \[00:09:00\] I'm, I'm taking the leap. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fully self employed. **Neill:** Well, I'm pretty, um, I'm not really great at taking risks. So I had my side gig for quite some time. I was doing both, but the way that I did my side gig was I had scaled my work week back to 30 hours. And I was like, okay, I'm going to take 10 hours for my business. I'm going to build my business in 10 hours a week. So that's what I did for probably three years. And then it was to the point where. There was enough, um, kind of disagreement between myself and the partners, um, in this firm that I gave my partnership and we decided to part ways. The biggest of those was they decided that I couldn't do both, that I, it was a conflict of interest for me to do both. And so I was like, Hey, Neil, this is a. This is a turning point. Are you going to vote for yourself or do the thing that feels safe? And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try doing my own thing and just see if I can make it work. And so that was, like I said, about three years in. **Kris:** And you are, you are working kind of for, for your coaching business, you are working. \[00:10:00\] 10 hours a week. And that reminds me of kind of the theme of the way you approach. Yeah, entrepreneurship, right? And that I'm sure that that has, um, gone up and down over the years. But what's been your journey? Because I think you're back to 10 hours per week. **Neill:** that that's like my maximum workweek at this point. Perfect. Yeah, so I left the corporate world and then I scaled up my work week to about 20, maybe sometimes 25 hours per week, just as a solopreneur, Um, this last year over a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of health stuff going on. And so I started ratcheting that back last year. I was maybe about 15 hours per week this year. I'm somewhere between seven and 10 hours per week. And it's done very strategically. Um, and with intention behind it, because this is a year that I want to just like take care of. All the rest of my health things, and I have a lot of other things going on. I'm, I'm \[00:11:00\] partially homeschooling my son and you know, there's just other things that I want to do in my life, so it feels like the right fit for right now. **Kris:** Do you ever find yourself kind of dipping your toe into wanting to do a little bit more, or are you just so skilled at this point that you don't have that urge? **Neill:** I really don't have that urge anymore. In fact, the thought that goes through my brain is like, I wonder how I could do this in five hours or I wonder how I like it's just like it's a game that I've played with my brain for so many years like literally almost 15 years at this point **Neill:** just like it's like a little challenge that I give to myself so yeah I don't really maybe there will be a point where I want to scale it up. And for me, that would just mean taking on more clients, but I feel really content where I'm at right now. **Kris:** That's so lovely. So tell me, um, share with me how you work with your clients. Like somebody will come to you. What are they struggling with? And then how do you actually work with them over time? So right now I am only working with folks one on one, um, because that's what feels \[00:12:00\] really good to me. And we work together for a minimum of six months. Better a year. Um, typically someone will come to me like I onboarded a client just a few weeks ago, and this person has an online business. And wants to scale back his work week from like 40 plus hours down to 20. I'm like, cool, let's do that. So that will like, and just set an initial goal. And then we work together every week for that period of time. And it's partially mindset coaching. It's partially tools and tactics and strategies for how to shrink things back. He'll be at that 20 to 25 hours. And in fact, he's, he's at least 50 percent of the way now he's one of those, like you, you tell me what to do. I'm, I'm a really good implementer. I'll just do it. And so that's amazing. Those are the best. I know. That's super fun for a coach because you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like this instant gratification of so many like little wins that they're getting so quickly. Um, so yeah, so that's what it looks like. I, \[00:13:00\] I coach on everything. It's not just time. It's interesting because people think it's time management and productivity, but it's a whole host of other things. There's so many psychological factors that go into it. A lot of, um, nervous system work, mindset work, cognitive behavior therapy, all kinds of disciplines I bring into the fold. **Kris:** There's so many layers there, right? Like there's, there's so much, um, underneath the busyness, right? That, that's like, it could be trauma related or could be just sitting with difficult pain that you don't want to feel. Um, and so you kind of have to, Be kind of a partially, uh, like a healer. Like you're not doing the healing for them, but you're like really facilitating them to go underneath why they're creating such busyness in their life. **Neill:** It really is deeper. I think people mistakenly think that productivity and time management is kind of \[00:14:00\] like a surface level thing, but if you really want to have a beautiful relationship with time, it requires that deeper work. And as a coach, I really. feel like I, I am in some sense of healer, but more so in the sense of, I facilitate my clients coming to understand themselves better. And what that means is understanding why they do what they do, because it always makes sense. Once we figure out the why behind it. And once you have that, it just releases all kinds of shame and judgment and there's so much clarity and calm that comes through that process. **Kris:** What do you find this guy was a model client, but what do you find when clients have resistance or they're having difficulty implementing or getting over those hurdles? What are they? What are they struggling with the most and how do you hold their hand through? the difficulty? **Neill:** Well, when, when that happens, which is more often the case, there is deeper work that has to be done. So it's some sort of low lying belief system that they picked up. A lot of the stuff \[00:15:00\] that we discover in coaching, it has happened during childhood or some really pivotal experiences. And part of my job is to help my clients connect the dots to how that. It's creating this pattern of behavior or this level of resistance or what's going on. So that has to do with like nervous system work. It has to do with understanding, you know, I brought in, um, some of my background in economics, um, because that's a lot of what describes and explains our subconscious thinking, which is what drives like 95 percent of what we do. And so it's a matter of. Kind of peeling back those layers and figuring out why you're resisting or why you're struggling with making this new habit. There's always a reason. You always make **Kris:** sense. Always. Yep, completely. Oh, that's such incredible work. And you've, you've recently written a book. Is that right? **Neill:** Yes. Tell us about it. Yeah, so it's called How to Thrive on a 10 Hour Workweek. \[00:16:00\] And it really, even though it has, you know, like it has the nice little markety title. It really is about examining our relationship with time. That's really what I hope people are taking away from it is a way to approach and, um, really create a beautiful relationship with time because there's so much stress and anxiety and worry about this thing we have made up called time. And I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we can feel really balanced and at ease. Um, and feel like we're accomplishing what we want, especially the working moms. I really wrote it for them because they have so many things on their plate and there's so much societal pressure for what they accomplish. **Kris:** That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience about? Something that you want them, like a takeaway that you want them to have, whether it be about time or entrepreneurship, what would you like to share? **Neill:** Yeah, I think, um, the biggest \[00:17:00\] thing that I would say is really examine your belief systems around time. If, if time is something you want to work with, which I am biased, of course, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor that literally can change your life. And if that's something that you want to tackle and you want to do it on your own, the best place to start is to really find what you believe about time. And our belief systems come from four different places. They come from what happened in our childhood, what our teachers, our parents, those influential adults taught us about time, what we took away from their models. Um, it comes from our peers. Um, colleagues, um, coaches, therapists, doctors, those influential things. And in this day and age for you and I, Kris, our children, especially social media influence. I mean, what you see on Instagram or Tik TOK or YouTube, YouTube's my son's thing. Um, it literally is shaping the belief systems of the people who are consuming it. So not to, I'm not like fear mongering. I'm just \[00:18:00\] saying that is the way that our nervous system, um, creates belief systems is the inputs that we receive. **Neill:** third thing. And then the fourth one is something that is only available to humans, which is our choice. What we decide to be true. You decide that you don't have enough time. That's what you will experience. If you decide that, of course you have enough time. That's what you will experience. And my favorite belief, this is something that, um, my assistant Kelly and I both geek out on, but. I mean, we message each other with ways that this has actually happened in our lives. We both believe that we create time and that's a really empowering way to think about it versus being at, um, you know, being an antagonist with time. **Kris:** Right. You're not a victim to time going by too quickly or not having enough. You're really, you're really the guide and time. Time is the hero and you are the guide. That's right. I **Neill:** love how \[00:19:00\] you just took it back to StoryBrand. That was brilliant. **Kris:** So before we wrap up, I do want to share just my personal experience of getting to work with you because you have been such an instrumental guide in my journey as an entrepreneur. And, um, for my audience, I just want to share Neil really helped me shape the offer that the way that I work with my clients. And she encouraged me and gave me clarity and The reality is this idea that as entrepreneurs were stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the, of the bottle, no one's immune to that. Even me, I, I provide such clarity for my clients, but I run my own business and I'm very close to it. And sometimes I need a brilliant coach and outside perspective to read the label of my bottle. And Neil has been that person for me. Many times now and in such profound ways \[00:20:00\] and she helped me and encouraged me to kick off my current offer, um, which was originally called copy that sells and it's evolved over time into the signature story selling system and it's, it's been such a gift to simplify the way I help my clients in one deep, profound way. I don't. I don't work with my clients in, in any other way and narrowing my offerings to one offering was the biggest way that I was able to kind of take the reins of my business and really have boundaries around my client work, my time involved. And it was like, the words don't really capture the, uh, the, way that it helped me and the way that it changed my life. And then a couple of years later, I, I've been working one on one with clients and I was loving it. And I was getting a lot of advice \[00:21:00\] from coaches and other. Other leaders, uh, other entrepreneur leaders and everyone was like, scale, scale, scale, group program, group program. You've got to do this. Like you've proof of concept one, one on one. Now let's expand it and grow it and multiply your impact and multiply your revenue. Honestly, I love working one on one with my clients, and that's what energizes me, but I thought, okay, the way to reach more people is to I created a group program and so of course I reached out to Neal and of course she was willing to have a power call with me and I ran it by her, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to scale. I'm going to do this group program. And I said, but here's the deal. I, I'm really resistant to this idea. Like I love my one on one work and I, I don't know if doing this work in a group format is going to be as effective. I, I don't know if this is like a \[00:22:00\] mindset thing that I need to overcome or, or what it is. And, but I need you to help me overcome that barrier and move forward with this group program. And she said these words, which we'll always remember. She said. Be careful what you build because you don't want to build it and then look back and wish you hadn't and And I realized in that moment that she was gently guiding me to listen to my own heart and listen to my own knowing and my own guidance and she just Brought me back to that and validated what was really true and right for me, and I have never looked back I was like, oh, I'm back on my path. I'm I know what I'm doing. I mean, I'm I I'm doubling down on one on one work it's the most fulfilling and it's it gets the greatest results for my clients and And here I am still loving my work still feeling super aligned with my purpose and \[00:23:00\] And being abundantly a compensated for the work as well, which is such a gift as well. So I just want to say thank you for the ways that you personally helped me. And it is such an honor to get to have you here today to bring your brilliance. **Neill:** Thank you, Kris. I also hope everyone who heard what Kris just said realized that the reason that that worked is that Kris just went back and listened to herself, which is what a lot of coaching is, is bringing you back to yourself and listening to yourself and letting all of what everyone else is saying, even though it's so well meaning and well intended, We have to listen to what's true to us, and I really believe that's why you're so successful and why you're helping so many people is because you are staying true to you. **Kris:** Yeah, and so are you. Thank you. All right, well, Nia, where can my audience find you? **Neill:** So they could visit my website at, uh, www. neilwilliams. com. They \[00:24:00\] could go listen to a podcast if they're interested in doing some time management, productivity kind of mindset work. We have, I think we're at almost 300 episodes. So lots of things to choose from it's called success genius. Or if you just want to reach out with a question, you can email me at neil at neilwilliams. com. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/clear-messaging-business-growth-confused-websites-kill-conversions ### Title: Clear Messaging for Business Growth: Why Confused Websites Kill Conversions ### Page ID: 7394756 ### Content: # Clear Messaging for Business Growth: Why Confused Websites Kill Conversions Clear Messaging for Business Growth: Why Confused Websites Kill Conversions I just dropped a new episode that honestly made me a little sad to record. ? Why? Because I see this happening to brilliant coaches and consultants every single day... Their expertise is incredible. Their results are real.  But their website? It's accidentally pushing away the exact clients they want to work with.  If someone lands on your homepage and can't figure out how you help them in 5 seconds, they're gone.  In this episode, I share the story of Amy, a parenting coach who went from 1 discovery call per month to 3-4 calls per week.  ? Why "transformation language" often backfires (and what works instead) ? The psychology behind why confused visitors bounce immediately ? My simple 4-step framework that turns websites into client magnets I know how frustrating it feels when you're amazing at what you do, but your website doesn't reflect that.  You're not broken, and neither is your business. You just need the right words in the right order. Ready to stop losing potential clients to confusion? **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. If your website isn't clear, you're losing potential clients. Every single day. They visit, they get confused, and then quietly click away and you might not even know it's happening. I. Here's the truth. You could be the best at what you do, but if somebody lands on your website and can't understand how you help them within five seconds, they're gone. And you need to know this. People don't hire the best expert. They hire the one they feel the most connected to, and story is the key to creating that connection. I see this all the time with brilliant coaches. They tell me I'm just not getting enough discovery calls booked. So I check out their website and honestly, \[00:01:00\] I can't tell what they actually do if I'm confused and I do this for a living. Their ideal clients are very confused too. Let me give you an example, Amy. A parenting coach came to me completely frustrated. She had certifications and glowing testimonials and a real gift for helping overwhelm moms create calmer homes. But her website said things like, imagine a happier future, which sounds poetic, but it's vague. So what does that actually mean? She was booking maybe one discovery call a month with people who couldn't afford to pay her. She was attracting bargain hunters instead of attracting dream clients. And even when people hired her, they weren't really the right fit. They didn't value her expertise, and she found herself negotiating for her prices and trying to prove her worth. I. here's why that was happening. First. Most websites talk too much about credentials, and I get it, you've worked hard to earn those certifications. But your \[00:02:00\] ideal clients aren't looking for that. They're looking for someone who actually gets them, someone who can help them solve a real tangible problem that they're dealing with right now. Think about it this way, when you go to a doctor with a migraine. You're not asking them where they went to med school. You just want the pain to stop. And it's the same idea here. Second, coaches often use transformation language that sounds deep and powerful, but lands flat with potential clients. We say things like, I help you step into your purpose or live your truth, but People visiting your website are often in survival mode. They're thinking, I'm burned out. I'm exhausted, I'm overwhelmed. I just need help. Instead of, I help people find their authentic power, say I help anxious professionals stop second guessing themselves so they can finally lead with confidence. That gives people something they can actually see and feel. And third, a lot of \[00:03:00\] websites don't make it easy for people to take the next step. If your homepage is cluttered with six different calls to action, like book a call, join my newsletter, download my freebie, follow me on Instagram. You're making your visitor think too hard and you're overwhelming them with just too many options. When people have to think too hard, they bounce. You need one clear next step, just one. And that step should move the relationship forward, ideally with a discovery call. And finally, one of the biggest mistakes I see is trying to help everyone with everything. Coaches list every single area that they've worked in, hoping to catch more people with a wider net. But when you try to speak to everyone, no one feels like you're actually talking to them. Instead, speak directly to one person with one clear problem. Be be bold. Be willing to say, this is who I help, and This is the transformation I offer. So \[00:04:00\] how do you fix all of this? Here's a simple framework that works. Number one, make your client the hero. Talk about what they want and what's in their way. Your website shouldn't be about how great you are. It should be about the change your clients want to see in their lives. You are the guide. You are the one with a flashlight saying. I've walked this road. I can show you the way. Two, clarify the transformation. What does success look like for your client? What's the before and after? Instead of live your best life, say, wake up excited for work again. Instead of unlock your potential, say, launch that business idea that's aligned with your true calling. Three, give them one clear call to action, whether it's booking a call or applying to your program or downloading your guide. Pick one. Make it the focus of your homepage. And say it like you mean it. Use language that builds trust, not pressure. \[00:05:00\] Number four, paint the picture of a brighter future. Help your clients see themselves in the story. Don't just say you'll feel better. Say you'll sit down to dinner with your kids without snapping at them from exhaustion. Or you'll walk into a Monday meeting, calm, clearheaded, and ready to lead. Let me show you the difference with two versions of the same message. Here's what doesn't work. I'm a certified life coach offering comprehensive coaching services to help you unlock your potential and live authentically. And here's what does work. Feeling stuck in a career that's draining the life out of you? I help ambitious women in their thirties quit jobs they hate and build a business they love without taking a massive pay cut. The second is more compelling and it's way more believable. Because it sounds like you actually understand what that woman is going through and that builds trust. Now let's get back to Amy. After we rewrote her \[00:06:00\] homepage to say, I help overwhelmed working moms find balance and create a life that lights them up. Everything shifted. We updated her message, tightened her calls to action, and restructured her homepage to focus entirely on her client's journey. And within two months, she was booking three to four discovery calls every week, and with the right people. People who are ready to invest, people who said, I read your website and I just knew I had to talk to you. She went from barely getting clients To having a wait list. So here's your challenge for today. Go look at your homepage and ask yourself, can somebody immediately tell what I do? Am I talking about my client's dreams and struggles, not just my own journey? Is there one clear next step that moves people toward working with me? If the answer to any of those is not really. Don't panic. This is totally fixable. and it doesn't have to be complicated. You don't need a complete rebrand or a $10,000 website. You need the right \[00:07:00\] words in the right order. And if you want help with that, book a money making messaging call with me today. We'll look at your website together, clarify your message, and make sure your story is working for you. So your dream clients stop scrolling and start reaching out to you. **Kris:** Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/corporate-leader-confident-coach-breaking-free-candy-motzek ### Title: From Corporate Leader to Confident Coach: Breaking Free with Candy Motzek ### Page ID: 7394759 ### Content: # From Corporate Leader to Confident Coach: Breaking Free with Candy Motzek From Corporate Leader to Confident Coach: Breaking Free with Candy Motzek If you're climbing that corporate ladder, you're probably really good at what you do.  But you're also probably lonely, stressed, and wondering if there's more to life than KPIs and quarterly reports. ? I just had the most eye-opening conversation with Candy Motzek on my podcast, and honestly?  It made me think about every brilliant corporate leader I know who's secretly dreaming of more freedom. In this episode, Candy shares how she helps high-achieving professionals make the leap from corporate to coaching.  And why it doesn't have to be a terrifying jump off a cliff. **? How "buffering" behaviors keep us stuck (hint: it's not just the extra glass of wine)** **? Why being a "good coach" isn't enough if you want clients** **? The mindset shift from employee security to entrepreneurial freedom** Candy dropped some serious wisdom about imposter syndrome too.  That means if you don't, you might not be taking big enough risks! ? If you've ever wondered if you could turn your leadership skills into a coaching business, this episode is pure gold. **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast, Candy Motzek. I am so thrilled for you to be here. Candy is a business and mindset coach, and let me tell you, we've been talking before I hit record and. The Venn diagram of our work is very, very deep, and so I'm so excited to share her brilliance with you today. So Candy, tell us a little bit more about you. What, tell us what you do and what's your special sauce? **Candy:** Okay. so first, thanks for having me on the show. I'm really looking forward to the conversation. So what do I do? I help. Coaches. Launch their business and sign clients. And \[00:01:00\] most of the people that I work with are high achievers professionals. They've been around the block and they've climbed that career ladder, and they really want a business that's going to be their business. It's gonna be a business that makes money that is an excellent side business, and lots of them wanna quit their job. So I help them do that transition from corporate person to self-employed. **Kris:** Which is a very, a very scary thing to do right? When you've been getting this paycheck, month after month. And insurance. I, I, I talk to a lot of my clients are really fearful about like losing insurance or having to pay their own insurance. And there's these things that we get hung up on that make us feel like this transition is jumping off of a cliff blindly, but it doesn't have to be. And. Let me tell you, and I think we could probably both attest to this, the freedom on the other side of that, like I consider myself a hundred percent unemployable. You'll never, ever want to go back. **Candy:** I \[00:02:00\] love that. I never thought about being unemployable. Maybe that's true for me. I love that. And this whole thing about. We've been programmed to think that our job is security and you know, life has happened and I mean, we've been around for more than five years. How many times have you worked for a company where they did a downsizing through no fault of your own and. I know many people who were made redundant. They just happened to be that line on the spreadsheet and they were below the, below the keep line. Mm-hmm. Great people, star players, really excellent team members and that. Job can be gone in an instant, and so that's one of the reasons that I really love this idea about having a side business, because when that happens and it can happen to anybody, you are not so freaked out, right? Mm-hmm. It's like, mm-hmm. It's okay. I have clients, I have contracts. Mm-hmm. I'm still gonna be okay. I'm gonna be able to pay my bills. Right. \[00:03:00\] And I, we owe that to ourselves and our family to **Kris:** have that. Oh, it's such peace of mind knowing that you've got a backup plan. Even if, even if you do wanna keep your day job like. Dipping your toe in and getting started with your own thing, you know, is only going to give you peace of mind, make you better at what you do. And if you ever decide to take the jump, like it's a much softer landing, so, most definitely. Yeah. tell me what, tell me a, a story about a client that came to you in this position and how you helped her. Navigate the path forward and, and tell me a story about like what kind of success did he or she have? **Candy:** Hmm. I love that. I. Yeah. so I, I coach coaches, but I also have a number of people who are currently leaders and they come into my world and, you know, they're real up and comers, they're really climbing that ladder, shooting for the a VP level or the C-suite level. And so one client in particular is a fellow, \[00:04:00\] and I've worked with him for a number of years, and he was a top player. And then after coaching together, like just pure leadership coaching, how to manage your mind, how to choose what you think, how to shift your perspective, how to become emotionally resilient and to really get in tune with creating a career that matched his values. Mm-hmm. He started saying. Hmm. I kind of like this coaching thing that you do. I'm interested in being a coach. So guess what? Off he goes and he does his coach training, and now he is on contract coaching for one of the big universities in the States. And so. That, you know, like, it's not like he went from rags to riches or that he went from you know, a job to being a seven figure business owner, which is a wonderful thing. The transition for him that was so important is he's doing something that he loves, you know, he's gone from the, oh, I gotta deal with these KPIs and this metrics and this reporting \[00:05:00\] to, I get. To talk to these amazing people. That is just an invaluable transformation. **Kris:** Oh, it's so beautiful. And a lot of the leaders that I work with are lonely. I mean, it is. It's a lonely. Position to be in, to be a leader because people are looking up to you. You, you don't have anyone to confide in, often, or you, you can't, like if you're worried or concerned or struggling, you can't show it, which I think amplifies those emotions so much more. So what a gift for him to be able to. Really witness what you're doing right and unknowingly get exposed to a completely different career. And so often, like even if we're not making, a bajillion dollars doing our own thing, we're at least making what we were making before, but with so much more freedom and so much more joy. **Candy:** Yeah. And you know, so there's, there's two things. First, I really hear you about that loneliness and it just, \[00:06:00\] when you were describing that, it just really hit me hard because I've been that leader. I was in corporate for years and years as well, and I've been that leader and I know that feeling. And so just, you know, if there's anybody listening to this, and you heard Chris say that, just know that it doesn't have to always be that way, that there's other people you can talk to that are a safe. Space. You know, it's not a conversation that's gonna be a career limiting move for you. It's gonna be a place that you could have a nice, safe conversation and really tell somebody what's going on. So I just, I didn't wanna let that slip because it's too important for people. and then on the other side is, oh gosh, now I've lost my train of thought. **Kris:** it'll come, it'll come back to you. The, one of the things that I mentioned was that even if you're not. making more than you were, you're typically making what you were making with so much more freedom and so much more joy. yeah. So that's so **Candy:** helpful. I love that. And so. The thing that's interesting is that you might be used to a salary, you know, like I say that with a capital S \[00:07:00\] salary, with the bonuses and all that kind of stuff. But what you're gonna find is that when you're really enjoying the work that you do, you're not buffering. With the extra glass of wine or the additional shopping trip or, you know, three times to the spa just because it's like, I need a break. I deserve a break. I know that, you know, when I used to do, a lot of the corporate stuff, we would have, we would eat out two or three times a week. Because we were always rewarding ourselves for a tough day, a tough week. It's very different when you're doing work that feels really personally meaningful. You're energized instead of drained, and so you might not be making as much money, but net you might be doing quite well. Right, **Kris:** right now, tell, tell my listeners a little bit more about. Buffering what that means. Like I know that term, but, once I learned it, oh my gosh, did I have awareness around where I was buffering in my life? And, but it's a foreign term to a lot of people, so let's hear more about that. **Candy:** Okay. so I \[00:08:00\] feel that buffering is something that we do to reward ourselves when things have been difficult or to avoid a feeling. And so if you have been feeling maybe you're feeling uneasy or you're feeling overwhelmed, you might find yourself. Staring in the fridge going, Hmm, what will I eat? That act of staring in the fridge and snacking to try and quell this emotion that's buffering. The emotion is still there. You're just trying to, you're trying to fix it in a way that actually doesn't work. And so this buffering is a coping mechanism that we've learned, but it's not always the most helpful coping mechanism. **Kris:** Hmm. I just wanna pause for a moment because that the way you just shared that was so eloquent and so clear, and I think this concept of buffering is very, very important. so thank you for that. Oh, okay. So I would love. To. I work with a lot of coaches. I work with consultants, I work with service providers. A lot of \[00:09:00\] them come to me and say. Why is no one buying my coaching? Like, I'm good at what I do. I've, you know, I've been writing in my blog, I'm paying for ads, whatever I've put, put thousands of dollars into my website. Why is nobody buying my coaching or why is no one buying my, my offer? And what are, what's your answer to that? When, when you get that question? **Candy:** And so it, it's, that's a, a straight question and it's going to have multiple level levels of answers. And so oftentimes people aren't buying because you didn't actually test your offer to see if anybody wanted it. You just might have had a great idea, oh, I should offer. This X, Y, Z thing, but you haven't done your market research to know if it's something that's in demand and if somebody wants it. So sometimes it's that. Sometimes it's even simpler. When we're working as coaches and self-employed as coaches, we get this. Tangled, we get tangled that we feel like we are our \[00:10:00\] business. It's not the same as having a business that is separate from us. And so we can be really nervous to make offers, to invite people to be our clients because it feels very vulnerable. Instead of going, would you like to buy this apple? We feel like the apple is us. And so. To allow yourself to get a little bit of separation is helpful. You are not your business. You are an entire whole person who happens to have a business. So that's the place to start. Have a little separation and then. What are you doing? Are you actually making offers? Are you inviting people? And so many coaches come to me and say That, Candy, I'm not selling anything. What's going on? And I'm like, how many people did you invite to be a client last week? And then we hear this very silent tone and they, I either will say, I don't know, which means they're not tracking it. Or they'll say, oh, I don't think I asked anybody in the last 10 days. And so if we don't \[00:11:00\] invite people to work with us, then they're not going to, and then we're not selling our package. Right. So it, I, I laugh and, and I. Laughing kind of an odd way because I'm guilty of the same thing. I just got off a coaching call with my coach and he said to me, he said, Candy, you need to be swinging that bat more often. And I'm like, oh, okay. Heard it. Gotta do it. So, right. It happens at all levels. But I would say, you know, look at those things. Does anybody want your offer? Did you do your market research? Mm-hmm. Separate who you are. From your business and then make sure you're actually making offers. You're inviting people into your world mm-hmm. To work with you. **Kris:** Mm-hmm. I think as, as coaches and business owners, our plates are full, like we are wearing a lot of different hats and it can be so easy to kind of have that be on your to-do list, but have other little simpler tasks to achieve. always. Take priority. And so \[00:12:00\] we kind of, we get busy and we do the, the, the little things that need our attention and we forget the most important things that drive the engine of our business. We cannot forget to pour gas into the tank that way. **Candy:** Exactly, and, and what you just described is so wonderful because that's exactly buffering, right? Totally. Yes, a hundred percent. We should tweak that blue on my website. No, nobody cares if it's the right blue or not. Right. So there's totally another way we do it. **Kris:** Yeah. That is a buffering with a capital B. okay. So a lot of what you just shared, Touches on a little bit of a mind mindset shift and mindset is something that you, you do a lot of with your clients and, and tell me how that works, or in what ways do you work with your clients As far as mindset goes? **Candy:** Yeah. So there's always strategy, there's tactics and making sure that we have the right foundation in place. Once that's. Then your success \[00:13:00\] or your lack of success is gonna hinge on how you feel about yourself, how you feel about your business, and what your perspective is. And so that is what mindset does. Let's find your habitual way of thinking and help you to shift it so that you don't ever have to go back there again. To prove to yourself that there is a better way for you to think, and when you think better, you feel better. Then your life is better. So it's a really nice virtuous circle. So for me, lots of journaling. If this is on a video, you're gonna look over my shoulder and you're gonna see a small stack of the journals that I write in every day. And I encourage my clients to do the same. I have a real simple process that they can follow. It starts with writing down what's in your mind, and to actually honor. That those thoughts are at play, even if you're not consciously aware of them. And then to really compassionately look at those thoughts and go, which one of these are helping me? And which \[00:14:00\] ones are not? Which ones are just on a loop that are just, I never even realized I was thinking that and it's actually not helping me, and then dismantling it and replacing it with something that works even better. **Kris:** Mm. Mm. That right there is the importance of coaching, getting coached, even if you're a coach, right? We've all got this default playlist going on in our heads, and unless you create that a little bit of distance from your brain. Get that down on paper and create that distance. There's no way you can become aware of what you're thinking. **Candy:** And you're very much, you know, the mindset of a being a, an employee is very different than the mindset of being an entrepreneur. Right. You've gotta think about. The responsibilities that you have, and it's not responsible, like, oh, it's all on my shoulders. But response able, you know, to be able to respond to what's going on in your life, \[00:15:00\] and that right there is a huge shift that I've seen coaches take. **Kris:** Hmm hmm. Okay. One of the things that you really focus on with your clients is overcoming. Imposter syndrome and self-sabotage. I witness a lot of imposter syndrome, like in, in a lot of people that I'd be, that I wouldn't expect it. and even my partner struggles with this, like he's been in his industry 20 years and he still feels like an imposter and he is. Aware of it enough to kind of share it with me periodically. we had a conversation about it last weekend when we were on a hike and, and what I shared with him was like, in order to, I'm curious your thoughts on this, 'cause this is my, my take on it. in order to overcome imposter syndrome, it's not necessarily, Always about changing your mindset. It's about taking action and, and showing \[00:16:00\] and proving to yourself that you know, what you're talking about, surrounding yourself with other people and re being reminded that when people ask you a question, you know how to answer that and like really witnessing your own expertise. so I'm curious your thoughts on imposter syndrome and, and how you navigate that. 'cause I'm genuinely curious too. **Candy:** Yeah. Okay. So imposter syndrome, that's like a giant topic. Let's just start with that. and what I notice is that it's, it's kind of like a fire in that it can be really, really hot. Sorry, maybe the opposite. It's that it thrives in secrecy. That's where it really gathers its power is where you have this feeling of like, who am I? I must be a fraud. Somebody's gonna find out, I'm gonna make one mistake and this entire house of cards is gonna fall down, and then I'm gonna be embarrassed and I'm gonna lose everything. And I'll be on the street like a bag lady with my grocery card. \[00:17:00\] So it's this, it, when it's hidden, it has way more power. And so the first thing, like you were talking about, your partner talking to you about it like that is. Big for dismantling imposter syndrome. The other thing is that I think that it is so helpful for people to know that I think it's 70%. Adults experience imposter syndrome. That means if you don't experience it or have never experienced it, it's either coming. Maybe you haven't taken big enough strides in your life, or maybe you might be one of the special few. I don't know. But it is such a massive number of people that experience it so you're not alone, and when you share it with somebody that you trust. Those are two things that really go a long way to doing, to dealing with it. do I think that it is overcome by action? I don't, I don't agree with that. Mm-hmm. Because just from my own experience, I've had so much imposter syndrome in my life, and \[00:18:00\] what that did is it made me into an overachiever because I thought if I could plug all the holes in the bucket, nobody would ever find out. And so in that case, the action actually kept me in the imposter syndrome because I was just using it to try and not be vulnerable. Mm-hmm. Instead of sharing it. Somebody like, oh, I dunno how I did on that presentation. Right? Mm-hmm. So action. But maybe a certain kind of action, maybe an action that is keeping, journal or a file on your computer or on your phone of when people have said, wow, that was amazing. You did a great job there. Or something that you did where you feel like. I did good. So keeping that little treasure chest of reminders that you're not a complete loser and that you actually have something valid to say and reminding yourself by looking at that. So that kind of action. **Kris:** Totally balance. Just \[00:19:00\] making sure everything is perfect, which is the path to exhaustion, honestly. And will, you'll never kind of get to the point of perfection that, that you're trying to maintain. Totally. The type of action that he and I were talking about was taking action. By connecting with a handful of other people and other experts in his industry and really surrounding himself with other people. So real, truly not staying alone in this mentality. And I have found when I am surrounded by other people who are doing similar work as I am, or kind of at the same phase of business ownership as I am, that. We're all struggling with similar things and that can be so reassuring and really validating. Or those people that we respect have questions that we can answer or contribute to, and help support them, and that can be really reassuring as well. So, yes, \[00:20:00\] I think ex I, I really love what you shared about secrecy being the thing that kind of keeps, keeps that belief alive and vibrant. **Candy:** Hmm. Yeah. And I really appreciate the action that you're talking about too, this idea of having, you know, surrounding yourself with people that. You admire. You know, they may be at the same level, but there's skills and, and characteristics that they have that you really admire and reminding yourself that you belong there, right? Like that's a big deal. You're, you're in good company. **Kris:** It's a really big deal and it's really fun. okay, so. As we wrap up, I would, I wanna talk, I wanna talk a little about the current landscape online as far as. For coaches, for self-employed people, what's going on right now? Like, we're, we're at a time where politically things are a little bit, uncertain. I think a lot of people are buying \[00:21:00\] differently than they maybe have in the past. more financial concerns, like, tell me. From your perspective, how are you looking at this and how are you working with your clients around this? **Candy:** And so can see my head nodding yes, yes, yes. I see a lot of people wanting to pull back, pull back in their spending, pull back on doing, on actually doing a lot of things as well. and it's this kind of running to safety. If I can sort of keep all my little ducks in a row really close to me, then I'll take care of all my physical needs, all my emotional needs, and so. I know that that's a tendency, and by no means would I ever suggest somebody sort of continue business as usual and assume that everything is gonna be fine and that we're gonna go back to the way things were because life is changing. So we've got the political changes, we've got the economic changes, we've got the changes driven by ai. And so what happens in that environment is that some people get really scared, get freaked out. \[00:22:00\] When we get scared, we're triggered and it triggers our stress response. So what I am. Always suggesting for people to do is to notice are you feeling relaxed and smooth in your body, or are you feeling tense? If you're feeling tense in your body, it means that you are experiencing one of the three Fs, which is fight, flight, or freeze as soon as you are in that position. Your ability to think logically and to use that prefrontal cortex, that executive decision making part of your brain, the connection is actually squeezed and minimized. So when you're freaked out, you can't think that's what it comes down to. So just know that when you're feeling stressed, you're not making your best decisions. If you can manage your stress. And then you're gonna be much more resilient, much more creative in how to handle what you think is right. I don't think that the end of the world is coming, nor do I \[00:23:00\] think that, you know, we're gonna return to the way things were maybe 10 years ago, especially in the coaching and online industry. But it doesn't mean that business can't be good, you know, if we're doing good work. And we are marketing well, and we are really helping our clients in making a difference in the world, and we're making offers. There are people who want that help, and those are the people you may want to be looking towards. Those people, the people that are building, the people that are looking for opportunities, the people that are saying, every time there's something tough happening, there's a new opportunity that's coming. So how do you get connected with those people that are opportunity growth oriented folks? Yeah, surround yourself with that higher vibe energy, and you'll automatically kind of hang out in that space and that, that's huge. And the other thing, you know what you mentioned about. It's hard to think. Well, when you're really stressed out, \[00:24:00\] it's almost impossible to be creative and have great ideas, you know, in addition to that, when you're really stressed out. So that's really an important part of, doing well as an entrepreneur. **Candy:** Do you think it's helpful just to talk about a couple of quick ideas that people can do to reduce their stress? I. That does not involve buffering. **Candy:** Yeah, so it can be as simple as put on your shoes and go for a walk outside. If you're sitting at your desk or at your workspace and you're feeling really stressed and you've just got it up to the top of your head, just get outside and walk walking. Daylight especially, and nature. Those are all three big things that you, when you take part in them, it reduces your stress. We are meant to walk. There is something about the movement of the arms and the legs and the swinging of your arms while you're walking. That really soothes your nervous system. Similarly, nature. \[00:25:00\] Maybe you're a beach person, maybe you're a forest person, maybe you're a field person. Get out into the nature that really works for you under daylight, not in. Incandescent light. And then the other thing that you can do is EFT Tapping, which is a great modality. It's available to anybody. There are so many wonderful free resources available. You just take those few little things, walk outside and get in nature and try some tapping, and you've got everything that you need to really diffuse a lot of your stress. **Kris:** Mm. I love that you mentioned tapping. I have a tapping coach that I work with every other week. We meet for an hour and I'm blown away by how deep we get in within one hour and the things that are inside me that get released with her help, it, it's really mind blowing. but also you can get on YouTube and find tapping resources for free. So, yes, **Candy:** exactly. I love that you work with \[00:26:00\] a topping coach. I think that's amazing. I've never worked with one before. **Kris:** Well, I'm happy to, I'm happy to share her information. Her name is Melanie Fay. Okay. So she, she works with a lot of other coaches and I, she came highly referred and I've never looked back. It's, it's really been life changing, honestly. Amazing. Yeah. And it's not, you know, a lot of people don't know about tapping. I think people know about EMDR, I think tappings kind of in the realm. or they're related somehow, but tapping, a lot of people don't know about tapping, so I'm really glad you brought it up today. Yeah. And there's some **Candy:** great peer reviewed studies out these days too. They're doing a lot of research on it, which is great. **Kris:** And. You can do it yourself, like I do it with Melanie because I need that accountability and, and I really enjoy working one-on-one, but a lot of the coaches that are in my circle just tap on their own when they need it. They know, okay, I need to tap through these emotions and, and and it's a really beautiful way to support yourself.\[00:27:00\] **Candy:** Yeah, I agree. I tap almost every morning. Yeah, **Kris:** it's great. Yeah. Do you tap around different issues or do you kind of tap through the same, with the same focus? I. So **Candy:** I either use the tapping solution app, or I follow Brad Yates on YouTube. I love him. He's like the Mr. Rogers of Tapping is the way I think of him. And what I found is that usually I'll do a round of whatever is the topic and something will occur to me, and then I'll just tap independently after that and kind of work through like, what's going on with that? Why did that show up? You know, and get real curious about it. Well as we wrap up today, I have one final question for you, which is, what is one thing that you wish someone had told you when you were first starting out? **Candy:** That you can be an amazing coach and broke that you need both. You need to have the marketing and the business skills and something that is gonna really help your dream clients and be an amazing coach. And \[00:28:00\] you can, you've gotta do both those things. If you wanna have a business, you can't. I can't tell you the number of. Fabulous, fabulous coaches that I know that have hardly any clients, and that's just a shame. Yeah. So that would be it. **Kris:** It it is, and, and that makes me think about what I witness a lot with my clients, which is coaches who are highly qualified. They know their stuff, their marketing, their messaging is. Pretty flat. It's not a true representation of their, the magic that they bring to the world. And somehow they think getting another certification is going to be the thing that they need to do if they can only get more qualified, if they can only get another certification under their belt, which nothing wrong with being very certified, but. Once you, once you know your stuff, you don't need additional certifications unless you're just doing it for the joy and you wanna enhance, you know, the way you serve your clients, what you really need to pair with that is great marketing, \[00:29:00\] great messaging, and finding those people that desperately need you to help them solve this problem. **Candy:** To really work on your belief in yourself as well, right? Like you might believe that you're a great coach, but do you believe that you're a successful business owner or do you believe that you're always gonna struggle, that it might not be for you? You know, this is the place you get to choose. Alright. Mic drop moment there. Candy. tell us where my listeners can find you. **Candy:** Hmm. So the funnest and easiest way is to come and listen to me on my podcast. I have a podcast called She Coaches. Coaches. The title is a mouthful, but I release episodes weekly. And Kris, you're gonna be a guest on my show too. So there's gonna be a great episode where you and I speak there. But that's the best way to find out more about me. Just come and listen. **Kris:** Perfect. Alright, well thank you so much for your time today. We covered a lot of territory and I know it's gonna be really helpful. So thank you for your \[00:30:00\] time. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/high-converting-website-mistakes-coaches-consultants ### Title: What Makes a High-Converting Website? 5 Costly Mistakes Driving Clients Away ### Page ID: 7408317 ### Content: What Makes a High-Converting Website? 5 Costly Mistakes Driving Clients Away I need to tell you about something that breaks my heart every single day. Brilliant coaches and consultants who **cringe** when they send prospects to their websites. ? These are people getting incredible results for their clients... but their website makes them look like they just started yesterday. Meanwhile, others with the exact same skills are booking calls left and right. It's not fancy design or expensive photo shoots. It's whether your website makes it crystal clear why someone should pick you over the 50 other coaches they just looked at. I just released a new podcast episode breaking down the 5 biggest mistakes I see (and exactly how to fix them). Here's a sneak peek: ? **Mistake #1:** Saying "I help businesses grow" (so does everyone else) ? **Mistake #3:** Hiding what makes you actually special ? **Mistake #5:** Using testimonials that tell me nothing useful One client I mention went from **1 inquiry per month to fully booked** with a waiting list—just by fixing these mistakes. Same person. Same credentials. Same amazing skills. Your expertise deserves a website that actually reflects it. If you're tired of cringing when you send people to your website, this episode will give you the exact roadmap to fix it. Small changes, massive results. What Makes a High-Converting Website? 5 Costly Mistakes Driving Clients Away Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. What makes a high converting website Today we're talking about why your website might be losing you clients and how to fix it. I see this all the time. Smart coaches and consultants who hate their websites, they actually cringe when they send somebody there. These are amazing, brilliant people that get great results for their clients, but their website, it makes them look like they just started last year. Meanwhile, other people with the same skills, their booking calls left and right. What is the difference? It's not about fancy design. It's not about having the perfect logo or an expensive photo shoot. It's about whether your website makes it crystal clear why someone \[00:01:00\] should pick you over the 50 other coaches they just looked at. If it doesn't do that, you're literally sending people away to go find someone who can explain their value better. I had a client last year. She was a brilliant executive coach with 15 years of corporate experience. She also had an MBA from Wharton, and she got amazing results with her clients, but her website was so generic. The headline said, helping leaders reach their potential. Her about page read like every other coach's resume. Visitors couldn't tell her apart from every other leadership coach out there. She got maybe one inquiry per month. We spent two hours rewriting her homepage, made it clear exactly who she helps and how she's different. And six weeks later she was fully booked with a waiting list. Same person, same credentials. Same amazing skills, completely different message. The difference was that her new headline said, I help \[00:02:00\] VP level executives break through the politics and confusion that's keeping them stuck at six figures. Suddenly, her ideal clients knew she got their exact situation. Let's walk through five mistakes I see successful coaches making on their website. And more importantly, how to fix them. So mistake number one saying nothing specific. Your website probably says something like, I help businesses grow. Or I empower women to live their best life. So does everyone else. Your ideal clients aren't looking for a generic help. They want someone who understands their specific situation. Here's what I mean. Instead of I help entrepreneurs scale their business, try, I help six figure service providers break through that 250 K ceiling without hiring a huge team or working 80 hour weeks. See the difference there? Now I know exactly who you help, the problem that you solve, and you've hinted at your unique approach. Or instead of, I help \[00:03:00\] women find confidence, try I help. High achieving women stop second guessing every decision so they can lead with authority in male dominated industries. Specific, clear. And your ideal client immediate immediately thinks that's me. Here's the test. Print out your headline. On your website, show it to someone who doesn't know what you do. Ask them to explain your business back to you if they can't, or if they could apply your headline to any other coach in your space. It's too generic. Mistake number two. Hiding what makes you special. You've got years of experience, specialized training, a unique methodology you've developed. maybe you've worked in the industry, your clients work in, but your website sounds like you just got certified last week. Don't just say, I'm a certified life coach. Tell me why that certification matters and what makes your approach different Instead, try. I'm certified through the International Coach Federation with \[00:04:00\] specialized training in neuroscience based coaching. This means I can help you rewire the thought patterns that keep you stuck, not just talk about surface level goals. If you spent 10 years in corporate finance before becoming a money coach. That's not just background information, that's your competitive advantage. "I spent a decade as a CFO at a, at a Fortune 500 company. I know exactly how executives think about money and the real reasons they make bad financial decisions." Your prospects need to know you're not just another coach who's read some books and hung out a shingle. They need to see that you have a real expertise that applies to their specific situation. Mistake number three, talking about your programs instead of their problems. This is huge. Your services page probably lists your delivery methods. 12 week intensive program, VIP day group coaching. But here's the thing, people don't care about your delivery method. They care about getting their problems solved. \[00:05:00\] They're not shopping for a 12 week program. They're shopping for a solution to the thing that's keeping them up at night. So lead with the problem. Make it specific. Instead of 12 week business breakthrough program, try "stuck at the same revenue level for two years running. Here's how to identify one bottleneck that's actually holding you back and fix it in the next 90 days." Then you can mention it's deliveredover a 12 week period. But the problem comes first. Here's another example. Instead of executive presence coaching, try "tired of being the smartest person in the room, but getting passed over for promotions? Learn the communication strategies that get you noticed by the right people." Your methodology matters, but only after people understand that you completely get their pain point. Mistake number four, unclear next steps that create more questions. "Contact me to learn more" is the weakest call to action in the book. What happens when I \[00:06:00\] contact you? Do I get a sales pitch, a 20 question form, an hour long strategy session, a five minute chat? I have no idea. So I probably won't click. Be specific about what happens next. "Book a 20 minute income amplifier strategy call where we'll identify what's really keeping you stuck and create a clear plan to move forward." Now I know exactly what I'm signing up for, but here's what most people miss. Also tell people what qualifies them for the next step. This call is perfect for established coaches earning 75K who are ready to scale systematically without burning out. This actually makes people more likely to book because they feel chosen, not like you'll take anyone with a pulse. It also pre-qualifies your leads. You'll get better prospects who are actually ready to invest. Mistake number five. No proof that your method actually works. Generic testimonials, don't cut it anymore. "Working with Sarah changed my life", tells me nothing \[00:07:00\] useful. I need to see that your specific approach gets results for people like me. Get detailed, tell the whole story. "*Before working with Jennifer, I was. Stuck at 150 K for three years straight. I was working 60 hour work weeks and couldn't figure out why I wasn't growing.* *Her revenue system framework helped me identify exactly where my processes were breaking down. Within 90 days, I hit my first 30 K month. Now I consistently earn 250 K annually, working 30 hours a week.*" Do you see the difference there? It's pretty big. now I can picture myself in that story, but don't just use testimonials. Share case studies, show before and after scenarios. Let people see the transformation process. "*A client came to me making a hundred k, but working 70 hours a week, we identified that she was undercharging and over-delivering. We raised her prices by 40% and created boundaries around scope creep. The result,* \[00:08:00\] *180 K revenue working 35 hours per week.*" The more specific you get, the more believable it becomes. What the best coaching websites do instead. Now let's flip it. Here's what I see on websites that actually convert visitors into clients. First, they obsess over one specific problem. They pick the one transformation they're best at and build everything around that. Not life coaching and business coaching and relationship coaching. Just One thing done exceptionally well. Your homepage should make someone think this person was put on earth to solve my exact problem. Second, they make taking the next step feel completely safe, short forms, clear expectations about what happens next. No mystery about the process. They answer questions before people ask them, how much does this cost? What's included? How long does it take? What if it doesn't work? Handle all those concerns right on the page instead of making people email you for basic information. \[00:09:00\] Third, they position you as the go-to expert for your specific niche, not just another coach with, with credentials. The person who understands this problem better than anyone else, they explain why their background, their training, their methodology, make them uniquely qualified to solve this challenge for this type of person. Fourth, they're absolutely packed with social proof, real client transformations, results, detailed case studies where people can see themselves. This includes before and after stories, screenshots of testimonials, revenue increases, confidence, improvements, whatever transformation you create. They document it and share it everywhere. Your step-by-step homework is this. Okay. Here's exactly what I want you to do this week. Step one, pull up your homepage right now. Look at it like you've never seen it before. Spend 30 seconds scanning it. Then ask yourself three questions. What problem \[00:10:00\] does this business solve? Who exactly do they help and why should I choose them over everyone else? If you can't answer all three clearly, and specifically you've got work to do. Step two, pick one thing to fix first. Maybe it's rewriting your headline to be more specific about who you help and what you solve. Maybe it's adding a detailed client success story with real numbers and outcomes. Maybe it's clarifying your call to action so people know exactly what they're signing up for. Don't try to fix everything at once. Just pick one element and make it great. Now, step three, test your changes. Show your new headline To five people who don't know your business. Ask them to explain what you do and send your new homepage to a friend and ask, what would you do next if you landed on landed on this page? Pay attention to their confusion. That's where you need to get clearer. Step four, get specific about your proof. Reach out to your best clients. Ask for detailed testimonials that tell the \[00:11:00\] whole story. What was their situation before? What specific problem were they trying to solve? What was your process? What's different for them now? The more specific, the better. I had a consultant who made just three changes. She clarified her ideal clientIn her headline, she added one detailed case study and she made her call to action more specific about what happens next. Her discovery call bookings went from two per month to 12 per month in three weeks. Three small changes with a massive impact. The bottom line, your website's job isn't to impress people with how smart you are. It's not to show off your credentials or list everything you you've ever done. Your website's job is to make it completely obvious that you are the right person to solve their problem. When somebody lands on your site, they should immediately think, this person gets me. They understand my situation, and they have a proven way to help. When that happens, they stop \[00:12:00\] shopping around. They stop comparing you to other coaches. They just want to talk to you. your expertise deserves a website that actually reflects it. Remember, you're not trying to appeal to everyone. You're trying to be irresistible to your ideal clients. The clearer you get about who you help and how you're different. The easier it becomes for the right people to choose you. If this helped you see your website differently, share it with another coach or consultant who's tired of cringing when they send prospects to their website. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/stop-delegating-tasks-start-delegating-ownership-results ### Title: Building Independent Teams with Role Clarity Expert Lee Taylor ### Page ID: 7445444 ### Content: Building Independent Teams with Role Clarity Expert Lee Taylor I just had the most eye-opening conversation with Lee Taylor about why so many business owners feel trapped in their own companies. Here's what hit me: **We hire out of desperation and then fire out of perfection.** Sound familiar? You desperately need help, so you hire someone quickly. Six months later, you're frustrated they're not delivering results you never clearly communicated. ? The real problem isn't your people—it's that we're delegating tasks instead of outcomes. ? When you delegate tasks, you stay the problem-solver ? When you delegate ownership for outcomes, they bring you solutions ✨ Role clarity transforms everything (including your external messaging!) Lee shared this game-changing approach: **Stop giving people to-do lists and start giving them ownership for specific results.** Instead of "post on social media three times a week," try "you're responsible for generating five qualified leads monthly through social media." See the difference? One keeps them busy. The other makes them think strategically about what actually works. **The best part?** When your team gets crystal clear on their roles, that clarity naturally improves how you communicate with customers too. Internal clarity and external messaging are more connected than you might think. Ready to stop being the bottleneck in your own business? ? Building Independent Teams with Role Clarity Expert Lee Taylor Ep. 35 | Lee Taylor's Formula for Building Independent Teams with Role Clarity Expert Lee Taylorwnership-Based Leadership Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Lee Taylor, thank you for joining me today on the podcast. I am so excited to have you here. Also to talk to a fellow story brander. Are you a, a StoryBrand coach or are you a No, have, Lee: no, they have, they have still not accepted me as an unofficial StoryBrand. Like, uh, just, I think it's just a fanboy ambassador. I think there should be some kind of certification for your website. I'm not a guide, but I pretend to be one like half of the time. So no, I just, huge fan. Been to the workshop. Been to a live workshop back, oh, I was thinking like seven years ago. It's been a long time. Okay, got Lee: So just followed along and just have loved the framework. Kris: Amazing, amazing. So tell me, tell me a little bit about what you do and what problem you \[00:01:00\] solve. Lee: Yeah, so I, um, help leaders and their teams create role clarity. And so the problem I solve is, you know, a lot of business owners that I talk to feel frustrated that their team's not as productive or profitable as they think they should be. And what I often say is. They work hard, but they're still not always focused on those few things that are most important. And so the owner feels frustrated and so I help them not start micromanaging, but how to use clarity to really communicate ownership and expectations in a way that frees up the leader to run their business and also frees up their team to take responsibility and really thrive in their roles. And so, um, yeah, worked with small businesses, nonprofits, doing that. Kris: And do you ever work with companies that have really, really tiny teams or is this most helpful for larger teams? Lee: No, actually both. My, my sweet spot has been like five to 20 people and there's, it goes closer. I've done some teams that are more than 30 or 40, but that's really the sweet spot of what I do. Um, because a lot of times what I see is coming in and somebody who doesn't have a, an HR department, and all the processes that go along, like, how do we help a small business leader with. \[00:02:00\] Three to 10 employees get the best of that, communicate the ownership, the questions that really matter without building out huge systems and processes like hr, like they think that they have to have, but they never can keep up with. So mine is all about how do we simplify and answer the few questions that you have, you have to answer for these people to take ownership. Kris: Right. And, and when you get on a call with these, with a potential client, what are they complaining to you about? I. Lee: You know, I, there really is, it is different, uh, for each one, but I think the, kind of the themes that come across are, it's a business owner that feels, I. Overwhelmed. They're trying to do it all, trying to keep up with everything. I think a lot of times the business has outgrown their capacity to do that. And so, um, you know, I thought it would, and I did think it would be that maybe people weren't working hard, but that's what's amazing is so many times I've got great people. It's just how do I get them, you know, focused on the right things, making sure they're doing the, you know, the few things that are most critical. Mm-hmm. And so, um. You know, that's the, that those are the most common things. It is a leader who's, they just feel burned out, worn out with trying \[00:03:00\] to do it all. Uh, and you listen to so many podcasts, so many th, so many great management things out there. To try to manage a small business, five to 10 people, like someone who has several hundred employees and they're full-time managers. It's just a very different game. And so how do you build something that helps them in their world, you know, actually function. Kris: And tell me, tell me some aha moments that you've had around role clarity. Like how did you end up doing this work specifically? Lee: Yeah, so I always laugh like this is one of those things where. So I did, I've done a lot of classic leadership stuff, so vision, goals, strategy, that type of thing. And what I would see happening was I'd go with these teams and I was helping them facilitate, choose goals. And you would hear them like pick the goals that they were focused on, like d different individuals on the team. And you, I would even talk to a leader afterwards and they're like, this is not the most important thing. They're like, we should start a podcast, or we should start doing just these, these left field, these kind of crazy things. And so it's like, how do I help people pick better goals? And so I would ask them, okay, could we look at what their roles are, whatever. And honestly, for most of them, they \[00:04:00\] had nothing besides maybe a job description. They had stole off of the internet and posted somewhere to hire the job. And so from there it was just. So what if we just got what For me, it's like, what questions do I need them to answer so that they can get clear on their vision, clear on their goals? And this was really a, a workshop, um, exercise that I had done, and it just resonated so well because what happened was when someone sees their entire job, when I say entire job, it speaks to most of their job on one page. It's just this light bulb moment where one for the boss like, yes, that's what I need them to do. But also for the team member, they go. I can see what it looks like to win. And it's not a two page job description. It's not this, somebody knocking on my door and, you know, Tuesday morning saying, Hey, I think we should do, you know, this crazy idea. It's like you've clarified for me. So those have been the biggest light bulb moments. Uh, and it's just the light bulb of like, we, we live in a world and a lot of really good teams. The lack of clarity about the roles is. Pretty shocking. Um, to me, I should know that 'cause I was a leader of big teams and the people who worked for me would've said the exact same thing, uh, in those days. So those have always been the biggest moment that when \[00:05:00\] they look at that one page, especially the skeptics, they're like, you can't do this on one page. And they see it and they go, yep, that's, that. If they did that, I would be pretty fired up. And so that's always my favorite moment. Kris: Right. So everybody has kind of a, a touchstone that they can always go back to. Ask, Is what I'm doing or is what I'm being asked to do, how does that relate to this one page? Yeah. Document around what I'm doing and if it doesn't align, then you have clarity that you, that's not the thing that you should be doing. Right? Yeah. You get get back to to home base. Tell me, a lot of companies feel like they need mission, vision, values and a lot of this internal stuff and, and. I don't wanna say, I'm not a believer in that, like I think much of that is really good. But now that you're pretty fluent in StoryBrand, what are some of the things that you've been able to let go of? Right. Like a lot of clients come to me and they go, I need a, we need a tagline. Like Nike's just do it. Like we need something like that. And. often I'll say, well, we can work on that \[00:06:00\] and we can get you like a clever tagline, but is it really going to help you? Is that the best use of your time? The reason taglines, like Just Do It work is because they have millions and millions of dollars in advertising and branding to back that up versus like, Typically what I'll do is I'll guide my clients to focusing on a one-liner, because a one-liner actually encapsulates the problem that you solve and shows exactly how you can help your clients, um, in a, a one or two sentence statement. It's longer than a tagline, but it's so much more effective. So tell me kind of once you found StoryBrand. Yeah. Were you able to kind of audit or filter out some of those internal activities that you were doing? Lee: Yeah, I, I think what I, what, what drew me to StoryBrand from the beginning is by nature, uh, I just love ideas and so I'm always adding to the plate. That's never a \[00:07:00\] problem, is coming up with more. Um, and so when I saw StoryBrand. It was like just this format, this framework, it for me, it just resonated. 'cause it, it continually gave me these like boundaries and also just reminded me of like the simplicity. And that's probably what I love about almost every element of what flows outta StoryBrand is the simplicity of the story, the character, the, you know, the one liner, all of those things. Because they forced me, they forced me to get clear. And to make sure, like, I know, and so, yeah, I have much like you and I st I like doing vision work and those kind of things. Um, for me, they really can become a distractor as opposed to like, what are the, what are the answers that I have to have? Like what are the que you know, what, what are the questions that people have about what I'm doing, about the problems they have, and then how I can solve them and trying to just. You know, pair that down as much as possible. So, yeah, I, I definitely, at this point, my focus is on kind of what you're saying, although the, the one liner is kind of a, the number of times I've tried to get the one liner down is too numerous to even be said. Um, but I love that \[00:08:00\] because I think it actually connects to a person more than some just. Quick, you know, website statement that I put on there. Kris: Right. can you share an example of a team doing the right things instead of doing more things? Lee: Yeah, I mean, there's just, there's, there's so many there, but a lot of times whenever, um. A lot of times when you're looking at, I'm thinking about now, what would be the most common ones? I think this happens a lot too. It is like, my favorite ones are marketing or social media, whatever, is somebody in a small business, they've got to be hiring. We gotta gotta be on social media. So they don't know it, they don't love it, whatever. See, of course, go hire somebody who's young. It's like, Hey, we gotta, we gotta be posting on social media. And so from there they just, they hire somebody and they. The person you know, does a lot. And so maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, but places lot times, like it's just without purpose. And so what happens is a lot of times there is, I'll see this is where the lack of clarity comes in is is the business owner. Three months later, six months later, goes like, we're not seeing any benefit from this. I'm not seeing any leads come in. And the other person's like, well, we got a lot of content out there, we're having a lot of fun stuff, whatever it may \[00:09:00\] be. And what I'll talk to them about is like, what you really wanted was you really care was like. You're responsible for generating new leads for the business. And so, but that conversation happens six months later. A lot of times there's miscommunication. There's frustration. Lots of that person actually ends up not working there and they go to the next person. Right. And so that's, when I say the few things, it's just in almost every role, somebody's in sales. If somebody's working in, in marketing, if they're doing customers. When you get down to it, say, what are the, what are the few things that if they did them, that person's calling you back? Three months from now to do other work for you. That's the thing. You know what's so funny is like, that's the stuff they're not, they're not focused on, but they know if you will dig in there and say, what would they be doing that would just like grow, uh, this team or this group or whatever. And so that's, it's just, um, it's gonna be as simple as meetings. It could be as simple as, you know, cutting activities out. Uh, but it's really just getting clear on what those activities are that really are gonna move the, move the needle. R Kris: Right. And really giving that, that person the information that they need in order to post yes. You know, important things, \[00:10:00\] uh, clear messaging, right. Give them the tools to do well, and then making those results measurable. Right? Here's absolutely, this is what we want. We want more clients, we want more people coming to us from your social media work. And we can, we can measure that, right? Yeah. Is it working, is it not? And so just that I think, you know, so many people, and this is I think the most common thing that happens with business owners. They think, I've gotta have a presence on social media. I don't wanna do it. Someone else can do it for me. Yeah. And they check the box. Okay, we're po we're posting a few times a week. We're checking that box. But is it working? Is it getting me a return on the investment? Right, because you're paying your team members to do this work. Yeah. Are are you reaping the rewards from that? Lee: Yeah. There's two things that I'll, I'll often say is that. One of the dangers, we'll see, especially you just said there is like we hire out of desperation. So we hire, 'cause like we, I've gotta do this, it's gotta be done, but then we \[00:11:00\] fire out of perfection. And to me that's what's so unfair sometimes is like, I need somebody to come in here and do this. Well then three months later, six months later, like that's not your perspective. Like, they're not doing this, not doing that. Like you didn't tell them like you, you were just happy they, you had a warm body show up. Right. And so, and to me there that part isn't, that's what happens a lot of time. And then I think secondly, a lot of this comes down to, um. What I always talk with leaders is like the language of ownership in the sense of like, when I really press them, it's like, you've gotta take the time and it doesn't have to be hours, right? But you've gotta take the time. A lot of times my goal is to get to where you do it in an hour to clarify, so what do you want? And, you know, and dig in there. Sometimes I have to learn that process and like I said, learn the language of how to do that. Um, because they do know, they do know what they want. Mm-hmm. It's just, you know, that like, like so many things. It's the discipline of like. Finding those answers so that when you are hiring somebody, bringing somebody team, or changing their position, you're really being fair with like, Hey, this is what we're looking for. Is this something you think you can do? Kris: Right. I love that phrase. We hire out of desperation and then we fire out of perfection. That is, that is so, \[00:12:00\] so beautiful and profound and completely unfair. Right? Yeah. It's, and it doesn't, doesn't serve anybody. I, I can imagine. As business owners, we really are. So close to our own business. Our business is our baby, and when we're trying to write about it or be strategic about it or make decisions, we really are stuck in that bottle and we're trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. So I imagine what you do with your clients is ask them the right questions, but also you are able to show up. With perspective and a clear lens and knowledge around storytelling. And I think of storytelling as, as a very powerful filtration device, right? It filters out the noise and it keeps that beautiful golden thread of whatever your story is. So that bottle effect, um, I've yet to meet a business owner who isn't struggling with that in, in some way, for sure. Shape or form. \[00:13:00\] What, tell me what, what's been your most challenging client situation? Lee: Just, it's hard. Usually it's not, usually it's not the client. It's, it's coming to realization of like the, the team members and like having to walk through those is, uh, probably the most challenging is. Whenever I've had someone, a leader, and we work through this process and they get really clear on like what it is they need from each of their team members. And I sometimes, often we'll give them a warning of like, once you get clear on this, you're probably gonna find out there's someone who is not carrying the weight that you thought they were. Maybe there's a lot of activity, a lot of movement, whatever. And on the other, the other side is like, you're also gonna see, there's some people who. Carrying probably a bigger weight than you saw. And so I think that always is a tough, that's been the most difficult is walking that through with a leader and then having to like process with them of like maybe it was the leader's fault that they had not communicated fairly or just added something to somebody who was a people please. And they kept adding stuff to them and they had overwhelmed them. And so those are always the most \[00:14:00\] difficult part because we live in a. 'cause we live in a culture of more, we work in a culture of more. We just, we're always adding more to our marketing, to our clarity. It's just the thing is like, they can do that. They can handle that one more thing. And so the toughest situations are always just coming to, uh, for a leader looking and saying, okay, this is my expectations and either I have to change them or I have to have some hard conversations. Um. There are always good conversations, but I always say clarity. Clarity does not eliminate the tough conversations. It just makes it very clear which ones we're gonna have to have. Kris: Right. And, and those difficult conversations are, you know, they're no fun, they're hard to have, but when you have clarity, there's so much easier to have. Lee: absolutely. And I, I think the thing I always like to say there is that, um, when a leader really embraces this. There's a confidence that grows of like I am asking someone to do a fair amount of work. Just in their mind it's, it's kind of gotten down to like, okay, I understand this is a fair thing to ask. And you know, most literally I've been blessed to work with, I don't think I would do well with somebody who just wanted to like, use and \[00:15:00\] abuse someone to get the most outta it. Just trash them is, I'm just constantly, I impressed with like the leaders, like they want to do well by their team. They want to build great, strong teams and a lot of workers really wanna work hard. That's the majority of everyone I deal with. And so. Getting to come alongside and like bridge that gap. And at times maybe, and I've had sometimes where I get to solve that problem that was lingering that we didn't know about. I mean, that is just, that's the best for sure. Kris: That is it. It's so fulfilling when we get to kind of play a role in helping a business owner get to that point. Absolutely. Um, so I, I, when I work with my clients, they're coming to me because. They're unclear on their messaging and their website isn't working. They're not totally clear on like how to have the right words to talk about what they do. I'm, they come to me because of external communication and the, the kind of invisible strategic byproduct of that is that they get really clear internally. Yeah. Around like. \[00:16:00\] What it is they do, um, how important it is, you know, that, that, that this is like the business owners that I work with and it sounds like that you work with too. They're here doing the work that they were meant to be doing on the planet. And so it's an honor to get to help them do that better and, and find more success, more profitability. Um, but you really come at it with your clients. From the opposite direction, like they're coming to you because of more, more around internal communication. Right. And I think that they're very much an overlapping Yeah. Deeply overlapping Venn diagram. Um, tell me like what overlaps exist around internal communication versus external communication? Lee: That's an interesting, that's an interesting one. Um, yeah, because I think it is. Clearly it is internal. Internal struggles, internal frustration. You know, a lot of times my experience is though whenever we get, when we get clear \[00:17:00\] internal on what it is that we want and we expect, like, I just think clarity and simplifying our communication in anywhere, it ends up impacting every other area. And so, um. A lot of times what I see is that when a team gets really clear on what they wanna do, it begins to bleed over even into the external of like, so what is it that we're offering? What is the, the solutions that we're providing? Um, and getting clear on like that story being simple and, uh, you know, that, and that for me, I'm just constantly talking about we're, it's, we're too complex, we have too much going on. Like, how do we get as simple as possible? And so if a leader is doing that with all of their team, their team member, and that becoming the language, whatever, you know, what are your roles? What are your, you know. Whatcha taking ownership for then it just simplifies the amount of things one, we're expecting of people to do. And then secondly, I think that begins to bleed over into are we being simple? Are we being focused in how we communicate outwards? You know? And so I can see that I've never, I've never thought about it that way, but I can see that that happens. Um, you know, you and I talked whenever we, whenever we were looking at my website, uh, you know, it's, it's. Just so it's honestly so embarrassing when you are inside that bottle and like you can't read it \[00:18:00\] and someone comes from the outside. Um, because you just, you know, for me it's like, I mean, I've, I've read it and known this so well, Chris, I've not, I cannot be the hero of the story. I cannot be the hero of the story. And in the middle of this process of doing this makeover process, whatever, I've literally was laying in my bed at night and I was like, I have made my, my model, my framework, the hero of the story. And I've invited people to join that story. And it's like. It was just, it was such a, like a wake up call and so frustrating. Um, but I just think we all, we all do it and that's what the blessing of having someone come in from the outside just to kinda shine a light and say, I think you might wanna like, revisit, you know, just how clear this is. Kris: Yes. And yeah, nobody is immune from what I call the bottle effect, right? We're all inside of our own little bottles. So, um, just to let my listeners know, you and I worked together on your website, wire frame, your website messaging. What was that like for you to go through that process? Lee: Yeah, it was so, which was so fun because I've always wanted do this. I have, I read the books, done a lot of things and I said before I made a. Fairly critical error. Uh, looking back, \[00:19:00\] I invested in my website and instead of investing in my message, and if I had to do over again, I would do the opposite. Even if I had to hack up a very simple website, I would've done my messaging first. And so, um, yeah, I think the process was eye-opening because I had done, done a lot of work with AI to see if I could strengthen it using some of the StoryBrand principles and whatever. And, you know, having like the expertise of a guide come in. I knew it was gonna be big. It was bigger than I thought. Um, and not because I would say I, I, I re-watched our video a couple times, just like tweaking things and whatever, and I was amazed. Not at all the extra stuff you, you threw in, but just how much was cut away. Like I. So how do we say what we have to say here? How are we, you said it several times, you were like, just say it. Just be as clear as possible. There has to be no question what this is. And you know, that to me, uh, obviously was so, so eye-opening and it really was probably the first time that I've, not saying it's perfect, but that I've looked back and go, okay, I, I really am talking about their story. I'm making them the hero. Mm-hmm. Um, and. Yeah, it was just a super cool part of the process to go through that and have different \[00:20:00\] guides helping me along the way. Kris: Right there, there's only room for one hero in every story, so if you are making yourself the hero of your own story, you're literally kicking out. Your potential client, you're kicking them out of the story. And when, when we talk about story, we really wanna craft a narrative that invites our potential clients into a story with us. A story where we play the guide, or in this situation, you are the guide in the story. You're the strongest character in the story. We don't wanna be the hero because we want, we want our clients to be the most important. Character in our story. Also, the hero role is actually the weakest character in the story, right? We don't know if they're gonna succeed or if they're gonna fail. So as consultants or service providers or guides, we don't, we don't want to be the hero. It's not in your best interest to be the hero of the story. And I think it's the thing that I, honestly, I would, I would guess 99% of the websites. Online, the \[00:21:00\] company or the founder is positioning themselves as the hero of the story. And it's, it's so rewarding to make that shift because it's, it, it's not hard, right? It, it can take an hour to shift things around and really position yourself as the guide. So now that we've like revamped your website, I, I got this sense that you were gonna say like. I'm proud of my website. I'm proud to send people there because I know it's work going to, it's doing the work for me. Lee: No, absolutely. There I had, I hate this too 'cause I'd reached a point where people were like, what's your website? I'm just kind of working on it. I'm, I'm, I'm improving some things. And I was like, why will I not giving my website? And so, yeah, it. For sure it's not, it is not perfect, but all the way from the top to the bottom. When I just looked at it again this morning, I was like, I'm good. I'm proud to send people to it. I'm proud of, I'm, I'm proud of the clarity of the message. I think they could go there. I know they could go there and know what I do. I have a sense of like, am I a good fit for this? Um, and the one thing I was gonna add is like, I feel like the one part for me that could be helpful for maybe your listeners, maybe you can \[00:22:00\] speak to this for a second, is, yeah. I always thought about not making myself the hero and I, you know, don't say how long you've been in business, whatever, but I think I had gone to like halfway where like my solution was the hero. And so I cut myself out. I didn't talk about myself at all, but my solution was still the hero. And I think that was like the biggest, you know, jump from there. And I think when, if somebody were to go and look at that website today with they see is like, I don't think you would see the solution as the hero. I think you would see it as inviting, you know, the potential a client to be the hero of the story. Kris: Absolutely. I looked at your website earlier today and I was like, yes, it's, it's dialed. It's looking so good. I, yeah, I'm so happy. Yeah. Whether you are the hero or your brand or your program, right? It doesn't matter if that hero role is filled already, it's taken, then nobody can really envision what it's like to work with you and so often. When we have a really cool program and we, we are, you know, that's also our baby. We love our program because it really, really helps people, but too often we get so excited. \[00:23:00\] About it, that we talk about it a little bit prematurely, right? We really wanna take the time to first establish that connection, create resonance, build trust, show them that we understand their struggles, we care about their success. Once we've done all that, then we can talk about our program because then they're engaged and they're interested about it, and, and it's no different than having a quick coffee date with somebody. You're not gonna. Sit down and launch into your program, right? You're gonna sit down, ask 'em how are they're doing, what's going on in their world, what are they struggling with? What are they, what are they working toward? What do they care about? And then if it's relevant, then we can step in and go, yeah, you know what, you know. I have this program or you know, if we're we're meeting a new friend, we can say, you know, I read this book, you might find this book helpful. Or, I have a great plumber that can solve that problem for you. Yes. Or whatever it is. Right. We first we need to connect. Um, so tell us a little bit about, um, speaking of programs, right? You have a 90 day program, is that right? \[00:24:00\] Kris: Okay. Tell, tell us, walk me through what that looks like and how that came to, to fruition. Lee: Yeah, so the program was just built around, so how do we take this role clarity and take it into a team to a point where not only does a leader does it, because that's kind of the ugliest part of HR job descriptions. You do 'em, they end up on a shelf. So how do we take this into a team and then really build it into the DNA, so they're coaching and developing, um, their team members. And so that was the heart of it was how can we do that? And as tight of a timeframe as we can. And so, uh, it really is built on three pillars. Is, is how it's built up. First, it's looking at that business owner and make getting them clear on their real clarity. And that's my, honestly, my favorite point because when they highlight, I. The key roles, what the ownership they need to take, what success looks like for themselves. All of a sudden they realize like, oh, I gotta hand some stuff off. I've gotta get this to other people because my business will grow if I'm doing these things. And so that's always like step one is they're learning the framework by doing it for themselves and getting very clear on like what's just most important for my time. Then the second step is we look at, we start looking at their, you know, their key \[00:25:00\] team members, their leaders there, and mapping it out for them. Um, and a lot of times that's just them saying a lot of things that were already in their head and just getting it onto paper. And then that last step is coaching them through walking this, rolling it out to their team. Communicating it to them and then building that rhythm. I just start with, it's not every week, but starting with how do we build a monthly rhythm where we're not just putting out fires and solving problems, but you're coaching them, you're making sure they understand what you need, what you're wanting, any problems that are keeping them from doing that. And so by the end of that 90 days, uh, they have their clarity, they have their team's clarity, and they have a plan for, uh, how do I move forward? How do I over time build, build a team that is independent of me? And that's, you know, strong and healthy. Kris: Mm. It, it's so beautiful. I, I think as business owners, we're often on the defense putting out fires, and we're so busy doing that, that we don't have time to actually be strategic and run our business on the offense. Right. And yes, have capacity there to put out fires, but the majority of your time is \[00:26:00\] really as a leader. Kris: And guiding people to. To work with you as a team, and everyone's role is essential in that, in, in supporting that bigger vision. So, um, a couple things. I just wanna thank you so much for your time today. It's been so delightful for me to, to dig in and just kind of have this conversation, um, as fellow StoryBrand lovers. Yes. Um, what's one thing that. You'd like to share with our listeners as far as like one piece of advice that you'd like to give them? Lee: Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I've really been focused on lately and then I've, I've just seen the biggest fruit of, is challenging leaders to delegate, um, ownership or outcomes instead of delegating task. A lot of times we've been told like, I gotta delegate more. I'm a good, I'm either I'm a good delegator or I've gotta delegate more, but when I dig in there, we immediately go to delegate task. What I often will say is like when we're just delegating task and things to do, we still carry the ownership for them. So as soon as they're done, it's back on us. And so I \[00:27:00\] become just a master, you know, to-do list person. And the second I'm not feeding something, everything just grinds to a halt. And so a lot of times what I talk about is how do we delegate ownership for outcomes and, um. When that changes and then they're responsible for the outcome and there's a real, there is a language to learn to do that, which isn't com complex. They go to my website, they can see the lead generator on the very bottom there about the one sentence formula. So it's easy to do, but when that starts happening and it takes some time to transition there, I become, I, I stop being the problem solver. These as owners, we stop being the problem solver so that anytime something happens, I have to solve it. Um, and so I begin to pass that ownership. Well then. A lot of times what happens is they're coming to me with potential solutions like what are, here's what I was thinking. Here's what I was, you know, planning. What do you think about this or that? Because they're responsible for that outcome happening. If it doesn't happen, it's, it's on them. And so that's just been the biggest thing is how do you move from delegating task to delegating ownership for outcomes. And when we start doing that simply and easily, and you can, you really can do that with one sentence. Um, the formula that I will show there. Um, yeah. It's just a, it's just a \[00:28:00\] game. It's a game changer for the leader, but also for the team member, for the employee. Kris: that is, that should be trademarked. I love it. Lee: Somewhere I'm like going as fast as I can. Hopefully it's not already trademarked. Kris: All right, Lee, thank you. Tell, tell us where we can find you. Like the, if this is resonating with you as a listener, like where can we send our, our people. Lee: Just roll clarity.co. Uh, if you're interested, I, I would really encourage you to download that. That lead generator, um, the one sentence ownership formula. It's just a, a great start, a great way to think differently about how we delegate. Kris: Beautiful. Thank you so much. Really appreciate Lee: it. Thank you for having me. It's been awesome. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll \[00:29:00\] see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/chanelle-nielsen-peaceful-profits-website-copy-converts-clients ### Title: Story Mining Secrets with Chanelle Nielson from Peaceful Profits ### Page ID: 7478668 ### Content: Story Mining Secrets with Chanelle Nielson from Peaceful Profits Ever hit "send" on an email with your website link and immediately regret it? You're not alone. Most service providers are secretly embarrassed by their websites, even when they're incredible at what they do. I just shared a conversation I had with **Chanelle Nielson from the Peaceful Profits Podcast** that tackles this exact problem. The episode was so valuable, I had to repurpose it for my own audience because I think you're going to love what we discovered: ? **Your website story isn't about you** (this mindset shift changes everything) ? **Why leading with credentials pushes clients away** (do this instead) ? **The simple 3-step process** that helped my client jump from 25% to 95% close rate The truth? You're probably stuck in "the bottle effect" - trying to read your own label from the inside. Once you understand how to position your clients as the hero and yourself as the guide, your entire marketing transforms. One client went from barely surviving to charging **6x more for the exact same service** just by getting his story right. Chanelle and I explore why this works and how you can apply it immediately to your own business. Ready to stop cringing when you share your website? Story Mining Secrets with Chanelle Nielson from Peaceful Profits \[00:00:00\] I had the best conversation with Chanel Nielsen on the Peaceful Prophets podcast, and it was so good, I wanted to share it with you here today. Here we go. Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Chanelle: Hello, peaceful Prophets Nation. Chanel here with an exciting client Spotlight episode for you today. So today we're talking to our client, Chris Jones. Chris, welcome to the podcast. Chanelle: I'm looking forward to this conversation. So let me introduce you all to Chris and let me introduce Chris to our audience. So, uh, most business owners miss out on sales because their website copy isn't working. Chris's signature story selling system helps them replace all their marketing with a single story so \[00:01:00\] they can attract more clients. Amplify revenue and enjoy more time freedom. Chris founded Red Door Stories in 2003 and was mentored by Donald Miller, author of Building a Story brand. She's worked with high profile companies, including Nike and Adidas, but her favorite clients are self-employed service providers because they struggle the most with copywriting and can experience the greatest benefits once they get their story right. So, Chris, to start off, I would love to hear some of just your favorite client wins. Kris: Wow. Um, I've worked with all kinds of entrepreneurs, mostly service providers. There was one in particular. My client, Mike, he was on the verge of, I mean, he was burned out legit. And he, um. He was charging, he wasn't charging enough. And so we, we boosted him up and we got his copy dialed in \[00:02:00\] and his visuals dialed in and he was able to charge six times more for the exact same service. Chanelle: Yes. Wow. That is huge. Yeah. And I can imagine just what a difference that would make in his business. Kris: Huge. Huge. I mean. He is really thriving. Yeah. Yeah. He, he really began to move through the world with a lot more confidence. Chanelle: Yeah. That's awesome. Let's hear another one. I'd love to hear another client win 'cause that was so good. Kris: So I have a lot of clients who spend a lot of time on sales calls and they dread it. They take a long time. They don't like the feeling of selling. And so what shifted the most for my clients is they really get on these calls and they don't feel like they have to sell anymore because they really understand the value that they're bringing to the table. So they \[00:03:00\] just get on the call, they talk about the work that they do. They connect authentically, and the byproduct of that is just they get more clients. So there's a client that I have who she was closing about 25% of her calls, which is actually not bad at all. Right? And by the time we wrapped up working together, she was closing 95% of those calls. So she knew that essentially any call that was booked with her would essentially turn into a new client. Chanelle: Okay. I love that one. That is amazing. Alright, I'm so glad you shared those because I'm sure listeners are very intrigued hearing those, those two client experiences because those are things. We all want in our business and really looking forward now to hearing more and, and learning more about how you do it. So one last thing \[00:04:00\] y'all should know about Chris. Chris believes that writing copy for your own business doesn't have to feel like torture. In fact, once you know how to tell a compelling signature story, it can actually be fast, easy, and fun. And I love that. So I love this idea about story to start off with. I mean, this is so great that you help your clients replace their marketing with a single story. So let's start with your story. What got you into this business? Kris: This? The work that I, that I do is truly my calling. I, you know, I found it early in my career, so I was in my early twenties when I, I got into marketing. I started. As a brand designer, so I worked with a lot of really well-known companies, Nike being one. I've had Jeff Bezos as a client and worked with some really big corporations and learned a ton. Like I look back on that time and I'm so grateful for it, and \[00:05:00\] it was really. In that era it was, you know, design was, um, it still is, design is so incredibly important and that's where I really got experienced with visual storytelling. And that's really, that was like my first language in many ways. And I loved graphic design. I loved logo design, I loved website design. And that was really. My area of expertise and what happened eventually is that I went out on my own. I started my own business, was really passionate about helping people that were similar to me, meaning solopreneurs, small business owners, entrepreneurial in spirit and. At that point in time, like all anybody needed to thrive as a business is just to even have a website. Like if you had a \[00:06:00\] website, you were a legitimate business. This was early on in like 2000, maybe five ish. Um, and then as time went on, the landscape online changed. And what I found is that. The words on the website became much, much more important. But I, I really, that really wasn't my area of focus. So what I would do is a client would come to me and hire me to design a website, and I would say, okay, your website copy is due on, let's just say April 1st. And, um. I'll never forget this one client named Elise. She was, she had been in the publishing industry. She was very comfortable writing write with words, and she wanted me to do her website. So I said, okay, your copy is due on April 1st, and then I'll get going on the design and we'll be off \[00:07:00\] and running. So April 1st came, I get a call from her and she was like. I don't know what is going on. I am completely stuck. Like the more I try and write this copy, the harder it is. The, I'm not making any progress. It's actually getting worse. And she's like, I don't have anything to give you. This has been such a nightmare. Can you help me? And so we brainstorm a few ideas. Um, I gave her the names of a couple copywriters. Um, I. I, you know, gave her some templates. I recommended she talk to some clients that she had worked with, um, but ultimately. None of those ended up working because, you know, she couldn't outsource her own voice. So the copy that other people were writing just didn't feel like her. And when you're the face of your own business, it's, it's really hard to \[00:08:00\] outsource your own copy. Like, I don't know anyone who can really nail that. And so thanks to Elise, um, I just made it my mission to never let this happen again. She was not my first client who was struggling with this. Um, and it manifested in, in many ways, like Elise was a. Full on just stuck and paralyzed and frustrated. I had other clients that would just write and write pages and pages and pages of website copy, which is also not effective in helping you get new clients. And so at that point, I just made it my mission. I am not gonna let this happen again. I traveled across the country. I went to workshops. I read books. I, I even became one of the very first StoryBrand guides before the book building a StoryBrand even came out. And so like after immersing myself for \[00:09:00\] quite a long period of time. I, I just came out the other side. I never treated a, a project, excuse me. I never treated a project the same way again. I never worked on a project where I didn't infuse storytelling principles into the project, whether it was design or writing. Like it always, it began to elevate everything that I worked on and. Not only that, like my business at that time, I was really relying on referrals to keep my business going, which referrals are great, but they're very unpredictable and it's really a hard and stressful way to run a business. So. I of course applied everything that I had learned to my own website and my own marketing. And the same things started happening for me too, like I was getting booked out with, with \[00:10:00\] lead calls. I had clients traveling in, I live in Portland, so I'd clients like taking the train here and road tripping here to meet me in person because they wanted to work with me. And it was really fun and exciting and I couldn't even believe like. The power of story and, and I will tell you like many years into doing this work, it still is it, you know, it's not a surprise to me 'cause I understand why it works and the power of it, and I've watched it time and time again with my clients, but I'm always delighted by the results that it actually delivers. Chanelle: You know, one thing that is coming up for me that I would love for you to just take a step back and almost define story because I think that. I think there almost can come a panic for people when they hear that like story That sounds good. And then this moment of like, oh wait, what is my story? I don't know \[00:11:00\] what my story is. So what or what a story even is. Right? So when we're talking about story, what? What do you mean exactly? Kris: It's such a good question because everybody thinks they know what a story is. We've all grown up getting stories read to us as children. But the type of story that I'm talking about, and even every movie you watch, every book you've ever read, it always begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. That hero, about a third of the way into the story, meets a guide who has a plan. A plan of how that hero can solve that problem. And when the hero follows that plan, they ultimately end up experiencing success and avoiding failure. That is the formula. It will ruin every movie for you moving forward. But that's the formula. And so when I talk about story for my clients, number one, I like, like to let my clients off \[00:12:00\] the hook because your story isn't really about you, it's about your hero, and your clients are the hero. You are the guide in the story. So from, for, for most of my clients, they're relieved that like, oh, I'm not like, I'm not, I don't wanna be the hero of my own story. I don't want this to be about me. Yes, you are. In the story, this is like really a way of inviting your potential clients into a narrative with you. A narrative where they play the role as the hero and you play the role as the guide. So you're actually the strongest character in the story as the guide. The hero is the weakest character in this story, and that's why we never wanna be the hero of our own story. There's only room for one hero, and when you are the hero of your own. Story. You literally kick your potential clients out of a narrative with you instead of inviting them into that narrative with you. Chanelle: Mm. So \[00:13:00\] interesting. Okay. Thank you for that. I think that will help with context as we talk. And just wanting to point out here, when I asked for your story in your business, if you guys weren't listening, if you guys didn't hear it, that is exactly what Chris did, right? This story was not. About, it was about your clients. You were the guide in that story. Here's how I helped this person. Here's what was happening. Here's how these people were coming and having this adventure. And so I think that's really, um, powerful to see in action of how that works. So. I love that your business, you know, started off with marketing then really honed in on stories. How has it evolved and changed to now? Like what are you doing differently now in your business then as you've incorporated story? Kris: Yeah, I, I think that the thing that I've been working toward for many years is simplifying my business. Mm-hmm. And. Really, the \[00:14:00\] question I asked myself a few years ago was like, what's the biggest problem that I can solve in the shortest amount of time? And. I, every client that I talk to is frustrated and fed up trying to write their own copy. It's so hard to do and it, and if you're a good writer, it's even harder because your standards are higher and you feel like, oh, I should be able to do, to do this. But there's two things going on. One of them is the curse of knowledge, which just means you've been in your industry long enough, you're you pretty much an expert and you've forgotten what it's like to not know what you know. And so this often like. Shows up as a website using terminology and lingo that like the new person coming to your website can't quite get. And so they feel stupid, which we would never want \[00:15:00\] our potential clients to feel that way. Um, and then the other piece is what I call the bottle effect, which. Is really, essentially it affects everybody. It just means that you're inside of the bottle. Like when you're trying to write for your own business, you don't have the perspective that you need. You're inside the bottle trying to read the label. That can only be read from outside. I like to think of myself as like the person that can can come and look at your bottle and read the label for you and help you really identify the story because your story is truly inside of you. It's inside of each and every one of us, and it's up to me to pull that and like, for lack of a better word, extract it from you. Or I like to call it mining for gold. The gold is in there. I just have to go in and identify it and. As entrepreneurs, we have so much happening in our brains at \[00:16:00\] any given time. Ideas and client work and things we wanna do, and vacations we wanna take. Like it's just, it can feel very overwhelming to try and identify what is the treasure of my story versus what is like the clutter and the noise. And so a big part of my work with my clients is really clearing out the clutter and really identifying that gold. Chanelle: I like that, and I like both of those analogies. The idea of mining for gold and then the bottle effect. I think that's really. It's real, it makes it very clear to me because, and we beat ourselves up. Like, I'm, I'm in this bottle, I should be able to see it. But obviously when you're saying that, well, of course you can't see it from that angle. And so it's very helpful to have someone who can see a lot more clearly than you. So I love the work that you do. You came to Peaceful Prophets, um, a while back. Tell me what brought you here and what was going on in your business that led you to working with Peaceful Prophets? \[00:17:00\] I love his down to earth, simple way of being. I love the way he communicates. I felt immediately like I could trust him. And I feel like Donald Miller is also a person you know of note that shows up in that way too. And both those two people, I just. Wanna be around people like that and, and digest at their content. And for me, I think it became, once I got really clear on my core offer and my main like high ticket offer, I, I realized that it was important to reach more people and make a bigger impact and. The way that peaceful prophets approaches funnels and book funnels and writing \[00:18:00\] a book, um, as an expert, it just really aligned with like what I was wanting and also my very much like less is more keep it simple approach. That's like my, my mantra. So it, it just, it felt really aligned and really natural to partner with peaceful prophets. Chanelle: So talk to us a little bit about what you've done here within Peaceful Prophets. Kris: Yes. So I've written a book, number one, um, using the guidance that I have found within Peaceful Prophets. I have been working with Peaceful Prophets now for about a year, um, to put together and build a funnel for me. And so again, just expanding my impact, getting to reach more people. We haven't. We haven't gone live with the funnel yet. Like it's still in the building phases of things, but the coaching that I've received, um, \[00:19:00\] the coaching that I've received has been so good. Like no one's immune from the bottle effect, right? So even, even though this is the work I do, like, it's so helpful for me to be able to work with your experts and have fresh eyes on my business, and I feel like. I've always been quite goal oriented and I have a lot of drive, but my coach at Peaceful Prophets, Margie, the way I look at it is she has. Seen a bigger dream and a bigger vision for me and my business than I could have really imagined for myself. So since working with Peaceful Profits, I've expanded my signature offer, so it delivers a lot more than it originally delivered. And because of that. The, the investment for that work has gone up, which has made it a lot easier for me to reach my financial goals \[00:20:00\] to really move the needle for my clients. Um, that's just, I mean, there's, there's many intangibles, but that's like a really, like a tangible result. And so my numbers from last year versus this year are. Have greatly improved. Like yeah, if I quit working this year in September, I'd still be making way more than I made last year. And it's so good to hear too, especially when your book isn't out yet, your funnel isn't done yet. I mean, your book is done, but you're not running it as a book funnel. Right, right, right. And so that's so amazing because even while that's still in process. You've still increased the bottom line in your business. Kris: isn't it? Like we haven't even yet like gotten live with, with the funnel, but it's completely \[00:21:00\] changed my business and yeah, it's, it's been incredibly profound and I'm so delighted. Yeah. Yeah, Chanelle: yeah. Congratulations on that. That's a big deal. Thank you. Now, recently, uh, a little bit ago you did a. Workshop within Peaceful Profits. Yes. And I have heard from my clients just so much about what a difference that made in their business and you help them with their story. And so I'd like to, to learn a little bit more from you and for listeners. With this idea of story and crafting their story, can you talk to us about some of the principles that go in at some, some tangible things that they can start to do to really find that gold and to figure out what they need to be talking about? Kris: Definitely, I actually have a freebie that anybody can download and it's a five minute video and it will walk you through \[00:22:00\] getting started with this. Once you watch the video and fill out the worksheet, like you can refer to that anytime you're ever writing for your business. And so the idea is just to get the gold out of your head and onto paper so you can kind of clear the clutter, um, and. Part of that freebie was incorporated into the workshop that we did. So they're, they're very much related. Um. The, the main thing to identify is really what are the, what are the problems that your clients are struggling with? Like when you get on the phone with them, in their words, what are they complaining about to you? And just brain dump three to five things that they're truly struggling with. And when we do this, I, I, this is like the most important work we, we can do. Because when we begin our communications in this way, really we're showing that we care about them more than we care about \[00:23:00\] ourselves. We really understand their struggle, and so they feel seen, they feel heard, they un feel understood. And what's really cool when we do this well is that they automatically think if we understand their problems so well, that we're the best ones to solve it. Even if we're not, they think that like, it's just a really incredibly, incredibly powerful kind of psychology tool. Um, so we wanna take the time to really articulate their problems and then we wanna brain dump, like, how do we solve this problem for our client? And we wanna keep this real simple at like five to eight words. How do we. How do we solve this problem? Like do we, um, put together a financial plan for them? Do we help them change their relationship with time? Do we restore their eyelids or whatever? Like it could be anything. How do you solve \[00:24:00\] this problem? And in the story, you always wanna position your service as the solution to those problems that you just brain dumped. And so that's you. This is like what I'm talking about is like the shortest story you'll ever write. It's like two sentences long, but it's a full and complete story because it begins with a hero that has a problem about halfway through, a guide enters in with a solution, and then you wanna. You wanna also, this is in the worksheet, um, you wanna bring them, what, what's the success? Like, what's the happy end result that they're gonna experience after they've solved this problem? And this is not like features of the work that you do. This is like, what's their life like after they've worked with you. And so by really getting clear on those three things, and this is, like I said, it's part of the work that we did in the workshop, but. It's truly the \[00:25:00\] foundation of really shifting the way that you talk about your business to make it much more about the hero and much less about you. Chanelle: Yeah. Do people ever, I imagine that a shorter story is harder than a long story is, do you hear that a lot? Kris: Uh, yes. I mean, I don't hear that a lot, but I know that to be true. And it is absolutely true. There's a, there was a president, I believe, I can't remember which one, who said this quote, which was, I would've written you a shorter letter, but I didn't have time. And so that's what happens. We kind of brain dump and lots of stuff comes out. And really the key is because people don't really read web websites anymore, the key is to really trim, trim, trim and just like. Storytelling can be a great filtration device. You filter out all the noise and you keep only the \[00:26:00\] essentials and it is, it's very hard to write a very clear and concise story. Chanelle: I can see that because you have to have this level of clarity that with just like, you know, the president that said that you, you, there's so much more thought that goes into something brief where if you just spill it all out there. You don't have to have quite as much clarity. You don't have to have quite as much thought behind it. And so, right. There's a real power that comes from getting to that level of clarity so that you can keep it that brief Kris: completely. And not only that, when some, but when you do the heavy lifting of like doing that work ahead of time for your clients, they come to your website and they trust you because you're not wasting their time with like. A bunch of copy, and they're not having to figure things out themselves, \[00:27:00\] it's just being spoonfed to them. So it's like another layer of trust and all of that kind of happens subconsciously, but it's like, oh, they're clear on what they do. They're showing me how I'm gonna benefit from it. They understand the nuances of of my struggle. I therefore can really trust this person's clear. They're a guide that I wanna work with versus the opposite where you kind of end up leaking trust and waffling because you're overloading people with information. You haven't taken the time to be clear. Who wants to hire a guide who hasn't taken time to be clear about who they are and what they do? Chanelle: Yeah, we are looking for that very strong, very powerful guide that's gonna just get us to where we wanna be and not take any detours, not get lost along the way. Right. So I love this. I think this is so needed and it's so powerful, the \[00:28:00\] things that you've shared. Now, one of the things that you said in your own business, in your own story, you used to play small and now you're not playing small anymore. I'd love to hear what that, what that means to you, what that looks like. Kris: I, I think I really had a lot of fear around visibility and I, and I still, I wouldn't say I have a lot of fear around it, but I. I think I'm naturally drawn toward working one-on-one with clients and really having this intimate dig, deep, profound transformation, transformative experience. So, like I've stayed true to that piece of myself. I, I think a lot of people will tell you if you wanna scale your business, you have to do group work and you have to, um, like. Work with larger groups of people and I have just fundamentally, \[00:29:00\] intentionally not gone down that path 'cause I don't feel like I can deliver what I deliver. In a group. Um, so on one hand I've really kept things intimate there. On the other hand, I've become much more visible in my outreach and how I reach people. And so the workshop that I did in partnership with Peaceful Prophets was such a good example of that. I, I. I can't even a year ago couldn't have even imagined doing a workshop, a three hour workshop for over a hundred people. Like that was so incredible and such a thrill and it's taken time for me to get to that point. So I started, you know, in different communities doing workshops and maybe helping five or 10 or 15 people and like got comfortable with that. But I will tell you my first workshop. That I did \[00:30:00\] was for two people. The two people showed up. I was so nervous, my armpits were sweating. Like it was, it was a real, it was a real hurdle like, and a real stretch for me. But I was, I was called to do it and um, I'm so like. Happy and thrilled that I can show up now and have the, like, have the ability to essentially reach more people and help more people and teach. I think like fundamentally, like the teaching part for me is so fulfilling and I wanna be able to help people even if, you know, they aren't able to work with me one-on-one and that feels good. Chanelle: I, I love that, and I think that that's really cool how you have been able to straddle that line between, you know, you're still giving that one-on-one \[00:31:00\] attention where it's needed, but that added visibility just allows more people to. Make progress in their own business to craft their own story and then to move on and work with you if that is their next step. And I love that you're answering the call, right? You feel called to do it. And so you're stepping into that space, so that's good. Yes. So, uh, as we, as we close up here, I would love to hear advice that you would give to others who are really. In this space where they feel like their story's not quite there yet. They, they aren't, they're stuck in the bottle. They're not quite sure what, what to do, how to figure this out. What would you say to them? Kris: That it's, it, it doesn't have to be as hard as you think it is. Just truly like I created that freebie to get people unstuck. For no cost. And to help you really in five minutes understand the \[00:32:00\] fundamentals of story and how to apply it in your own business. And even if you just did that, it would change the way you talk about your business and the work that you do for forever. And the other thing I would say is that. I believe every business owner needs just one page on the web that sells for them. And when you take the time to just. Like reduce the overwhelm. You just need one page. For me. It's my homepage. My homepage, it's a heavy lifting homepage. It tells my whole story. It engages my clients. It clearly communicates the offer, um, that I have, and allows them to book a call with me or purchase it right there. And like I have just. Put everything into this one page and that's all I need. And so no matter what I'm doing, where I'm talking, who I'm communicating with, I just know I send people \[00:33:00\] to that page and I know that page is doing the heavy lifting of selling for me. And that way I can get on on my sales calls and they're already queued up and excited about, about working together, and I don't feel like I have to sell. It's like it's such a time saver. Yeah. And it can also be. Such a relief to like have boundaries, like to talk about your pricing. If things are uncomfortable for you in person, let your homepage or that one page online, do that work for you until you can get more comfortable doing it yourself. Chanelle: I, I love that you're practicing what you preach. You have truly simplified your business right to this very here's what it is, and that it's doing that heavy lifting for you because that makes such a big difference in, in the way we feel about our business and in in the profitability of our business and all those things. But it makes your \[00:34:00\] business a joy to run at the same time, because you're not getting on these soul sucking sales calls. It's calls with people who come. Ready to go because they have read what you've so carefully crafted on that page. Kris: Yes. And you know, we are wearing so many hats running your own business, like so many hats. So how can we reduce overwhelm with all those hats like. A website in general can be a very overwhelming, daunting, usually there's a lot of like emotion around it. Like either you're ashamed of it or you're overwhelmed by it. You don't know where to begin it, you don't. It's rare that I meet someone who's proud of their website and that that feels like it's a true reflection of who they are and doing the work for them and, and so. Anything you can do to just simplify. And I think websites can be \[00:35:00\] such a tangible way to simplify, simplify life and, and simplify your business. Like they really, it should, it should really be working for you in that way. Chanelle: Okay. I know that listeners are excited to go and learn more about you. You've talked about this amazing freebie that you have. We'd love to hear more about that. So where can people get more? Kris: Everything about me. You can find at my website, red door designs.com, R-E-D-D-O-O-R-D-E-S-I-G-N s.com. At that website, you can download my freebie and watch that it's called Five Minutes to Compelling Copy, and you can download that, watch the five minute video, and at no cost, like really get the ball rolling with your own story. You can also book a moneymaking messaging call with me. \[00:36:00\] That's also free, and that's a 40 minute call with me. And together we'll look at your website and really identify like where are the holes in your boat, like as far as storytelling goes, where do you need to boost your story up and what's working, what's not. Um, and then you can also find out also at my website, how to work with me one-on-one. Chanelle: Okay, perfect. Red door designs.com I think that is amazing. We will go and check it out. Chris, thank you for being here and for all the things that you've taught us today. Kris: Ah, thank you for having me. It was so much fun. Chanelle: Yeah, this was great. I've learned a lot. Everyone go and check out her website and if you are interested in working with us here at Peaceful prophets, peaceful prophets.com/call, we are always happy to, to meet our listeners and thank you. We'll see you next time. Bye Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. \[00:37:00\] Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-to-sell-coaching-without-sales-calls-loom-video-strategy ### Title: How to Sell Without Sales Calls: Joanna Lott's $4K Evergreen System ### Page ID: 7509886 ### Content: How to Sell Without Sales Calls: Joanna Lott's $4K Evergreen System I just finished recording an episode that completely blew my mind. ? Joanna Lott is selling her $4,000 coaching program with a 90% conversion rate... without doing a single sales call. I know what you're thinking—how is that even possible? **Here's what I learned that changed everything I thought about sales:** ✅ **The "warming up" effect:** Her written application process gets prospects to share details they'd never reveal on a call ✅ **Screen sharing magic:** She can show inside her program and community in ways that beat any verbal description ✅ **Flexibility wins:** She records responses on her schedule while prospects watch on theirs—everyone wins The most surprising part? Every time she goes back to offering a traditional sales call, she regrets it. The Loom process actually creates deeper trust and better outcomes. If you're spending half your work week on discovery calls that don't convert, this episode will completely shift how you think about selling your services. Sometimes the most radical thing you can do is remove the "Book a Call" button entirely. ? CTC Ep. 37 | How to Sell Without Sales Calls: Joanna Lott's $4K Evergreen System Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Today we are talking to Joanna Lot who helps coaches actually make money doing what they love. And you have been there yourself, right? You've, as a coach, you started out you wanted to, to do coaching, you wanted to be a profitable business owner. Were, did you struggle with that at the beginning and and is that why now you're helping other coaches do that work? Joanna: Yes, exactly. I think most of us are trying to save our former self, so Totally. I did my coach training in executive coaching. I had read on websites that you could get. Something like 500 pounds per hour times 40 \[00:01:00\] hours a week. And I was like, this is gonna be easy. Like I had no concept of marketing. I just thought somehow I. I was gonna just have these 40 hours a week. I mean, it was very misleading for a coach training organization to have that on their website, but sadly that's what they had. And you're so naive coming from employment and maybe never having had to market or do any of that type of work before. Yes, I was the classic coach who has no idea about what they're about to get into. So I got my qualification. I thought everything was gonna change the moment that qualification was in my hands. And then obviously you realize that everybody says. That's really nice. That's really inspiring, but no one is booking you. So I went on a long journey, obviously worked with lots of amazing mentors, learned everything I needed to build up my executive and career coaching business, and eventually did super well, was really visible, overcame so many hurdles. Of doing \[00:02:00\] that because I genuinely was your classic coach who had no idea and soon I was marketing really well and really busy. So I started my program on the side four and a half years ago now, and like helping coaches to do this as well as doing my previous executive in career coaching work. And eventually it's grown and grown. So that's my sole focus now is to help coaches to do what I so desperately wish someone would've helped me to do really effectively at the start. Kris: And tell me when you, when you worked with those mentors, right? When you decided, okay, gosh, just 'cause I have a certification doesn't mean clients are gonna wanna work with me. What did you learn? What were one or two of the, the biggest takeaways that you learned during that period that turned things around for your business? Joanna: Yeah. Well, in all honesty, I didn't really find. Exactly what I needed. I joined a program that was way too advanced for where I was at, so it was very in depth about getting funding and things that are just not \[00:03:00\] relevant when you are starting a business or when you're starting this type of business. So what I really wish, so I've essentially created what I really wish I had because it took me a long time because the programs I was in were just not suitable. Mm-hmm. So what I would do now, and what I do obviously in my program is. Really tune into why you want your business to begin with and what are your goals for it, and how committed you are to showing up for it. Mm-hmm. Then identifying your ideal client and what problem you are solving, again, which is really hard for a coach. 'cause you learn, you can help everyone with everything. So niche down. And then third piece is create a tangible offer rather than try and sell coaching. So. Sadly, none of the programs I did really taught that. So I think I went around the houses. I'm not sure how I eventually picked it up, but thank God some, at some point I did pick up that they are the real fundamentals and then consistently marketing your business after that. Kris: And when you talk \[00:04:00\] about consistently marketing, what does that mean? Joanna: I call it your constant marketing protocol, which sounds a little bit depressing with the word constant in there, but I like to think it's quite reassuring. It's your baseline, like what I want it to become. It's just something that I do. It's not heavy. I don't have to think, oh gosh, I've got to write a LinkedIn post. It's just something that I do. So my constant marketing protocol is posting on LinkedIn five times a week. I know that might sound a lot depending on who's listening. I do a podcast once a week. And I do master classes maybe once a quarter. So that is my constant marketing protocol. It's not heavy anymore, it's just something that I do and I don't have to think about it 'cause it's a routine and it just happens. I. Hmm. Kris: I love that. Yeah. There, there is such a mind mindset shift when you start to think about these as just \[00:05:00\] part of your job, right? It's just part of your job and it's not like endless homework. It's just part of the way you go fishing and you, you reach people. Um. I talk a lot about with my clients, I talk about the website as the center of your marketing universe, and the importance of really getting your website tuned up with your story, with your core offer, and really dialing it in. Dialing it in in a way that it acts as your top sales employee. Like if you were to hire a full-time sales person. I, I don't want you to have to hire a full-time salesperson. I want your website to do that work, but what I'm getting at is. I like to think of the website as the sun in your marketing universe. All around the sun, there are lots of different planets and when I think about each planet is a marketing activity. One might be LinkedIn posting, one might me be \[00:06:00\] masterclasses, one might be email marketing, one might be social media posting. And what I like to tell my clients, 'cause I think you, you and I are both aligned. In a less is more approach to not only marketing, but business ownership is to pick two planets. You do not have to be on all the planets. Pick two planets that you genuinely enjoy and you genuinely look forward to. For me, posting on social media feels like never ending homework, whereas. Getting on a podcast, talking, having a conversation with somebody on a podcast feels very life-giving. It feels effortless. It feels fun. I look forward to it. I love talking about what I do, and I love learning. Learning about other people. So podcasting is one of my planets. I picked that one and then I picked email marketing because I know that can be fun for me and I. And I love the engagement that it gets. Those are my two planets. I don't really do \[00:07:00\] any of the other planets and I don't think anybody else needs to either. Does that resonate with you? Joanna: Oh yeah, a hundred percent. I always tell my clients to do what makes you feel good. There's no point. In doing, like, I don't say you have to use LinkedIn to grow your business because some people it, it is just not gonna work for, like I'm really into tuning into exactly who you are, what energizes you, and the less is more approach. So like you say, I suggest people pick if they're using social media. One soul platform to focus on because you cannot do any more than that. It's hard enough to do one, as you've said. Yeah. And then one deeper nurture place. So your email list or your speaking on podcasts, or maybe a blog, something that's deeper. So I talk about it as shallow, which is social media and deep. So you might want the shallow to bring people in to your deeper nurture places. Hmm. But love how you, you don't use social media and \[00:08:00\] make, um, really go big on podcasting. And I've noticed that. Kris: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really effective and, and everybody gets to choose their planet. And then when you're doing that. Activity on the planet that you've chosen point people back to the website knowing it's gonna do that work of selling for you. Speaking of selling, you talk about not having to do sales calls at all. Is that, is that right? And, and if it is, how does that work? I used to find, I work basically 20 hours a week 'cause I have kids, as you know, and I used to find I was probably spending 10 hours a week on sales calls. And so I just had to figure out a different way and it was so nerve wracking moving to a sales page, which is now on my website, and I obviously thought no one's ever gonna buy from me again because. You know, that's how people buy from me. How could I do this? Joanna: But anyway, I, I gave it a shot and \[00:09:00\] I wouldn't say everybody just hits buy now on the sales page. But what they do is complete an application on the sales page. If they're not ready to buy now, it will say curious, but have questions. It will take them to a Google Doc, which they can complete about. Where they're at, where they're wanting to get to, all of the things. Mm-hmm. And then I use loom.com. So it's a video platform where you can share my screen, talk through exactly where they're at. And I, for some reason, I can just be so much more open and I think they can be so much more open because in the form I maybe have asked questions that I wouldn't feel that comfortable asking, like, how much money have you earned in your business? I probably wouldn't say that on a sales call, a discovery call. But strangely enough, in a form, I can ask all the questions that I really need to know and I can say, what questions do you have for me to make sure this is the right fit? And therefore we can actually have a really transparent conversation, \[00:10:00\] even though it's not face-to-face. Because in my video where I talk through their answers, you know, they've been really transparent with me, which allows me to be really transparent back. And so I would say I have probably an. 85 to 90% conversion rate from my Loom videos, and that's for a fairly high ticket program. It's 3,600 pounds, so over $4,000 I guess. Uh, yeah, which is quite unheard of, I think, for someone that's not particularly famous to be able to convert without sales calls. That's incredible. Kris: I, I love it because it's still very intimate. It's very personal. They feel like they're really getting you, your eyes on their business and a connection with you, but you get to do it on your own time. In your pajamas or whenever you have like a free 15 minutes to kind of hop on Loom. And I'm a, I'm a big lover of Loom, but I've never used it in my, in my sales call \[00:11:00\] process. And I think that's, that's brilliant because I think none of us really mind working. It's just we wanna work on our own time, you know? And we wanna work when we wanna work. And I think as parents. We could have little windows here and there, but we never quite know when those little windows are going to occur. So how lovely that you've kind of strategized the sales process without having to get on sales calls. So did you remove the sales call button from your website altogether? Joanna: So people do sometimes message saying, I'm on your website, I'm looking for a way to book a call with you, and I can't find one. And I used to say, oh yeah, of course, here's my Calendly link. And you know, 'cause I was still in the early days of doing it, but now generally I send a loom back to that. Website query saying I'm a, you know, I'm a mom and I, I only work really reduced hours. Therefore it's much easier for me to be able to reply, you know, in my own time. So please let me \[00:12:00\] know more about you. I can't wait to learn about you, and I'll reply, you know, via a video message like this. So yes, I've removed that. I mean, I'm not saying I would never. Have a call if someone really wants. But I do try to do that and it, and it really works. 'cause nearly every time I go straight to the call and just say, oh, that's fine. Here's my Calendly link. I regret it because I think we've missed that extra warming up phase of the loom. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's amazing. It's amazing. It amazes me, even though I've been doing it for about a year now and consistently sold my program every single month, five spots a month, four, you know, over a year in this process with no deadlines, no fake scarcity. You know, it's never green program. They can join any time. Kris: this way. Wow. That, that kind of blows my mind. The piece about every time you send the Macallan Lee link, you're, you're like thinking, ooh, like that, that little gut nudge of like, Ooh, we've just skipped over. This kind \[00:13:00\] of intimate warming up. I love, I love that. That was kind of a surprise awareness that came out of this. Like it's not only as good, but it's actually better than having a sales call. Right. I. It Joanna: really is better because like I say, that transparency, they can see it on their terms. I can do it on my terms and yeah, I think it just suits all of us. We're all busy people and with limited time in the diary, so I. Yeah, it just helps me really talk through all of the options. I can also share screen. So for example, if they're interested in the program, I can show them inside the portal. I can show them inside the Slack group and say, here's the community. As you can see, it's really active, so you can also help them take a sneak peek, which you can't really do so well on a sales call or a sales page. Kris: Oh, that's so good. That's so good. I know my listeners are kind of, their minds are blown right now because I, I know mine is. Um, so is, is \[00:14:00\] this when you talk about building trust, is that how you do it or there are additional things that you do to build the trust? Joanna: Yeah, the trust is really important. And I wouldn't say many people can go straight to a sales page. If you are new in business maybe, and you haven't got. Much marketing out there, it's, it's really hard generally to sell from a sales page, and they have usually quite low conversion rates. The things that I did that helped me to do that really effectively is firstly. Really prioritize video case studies with previous clients. So my sales page has maybe 20 videos on it, you know, short edited videos of the impact so they can see real people like them with their real full names talking through the program. So that's really helped. And again, that's taken time to build up, but I really prioritize it, which helps me give amazing service. 'cause I'm obsessed by getting a case study and it helps them to celebrate their own \[00:15:00\] progress. And everyone wants to be a case study, so they'll see that sales page and they think one day. I'm gonna be sharing my story and loads of my clients say that to me. They, they envisage that right from the start. So the case studies has really helped. And the other thing that's really helped is the podcast. So, like I say, the deep nurturing, that's enabled me to do it because then people get to hear me every week. Mine is a solo. Podcast. So it is genuinely just me usually, although obviously sometimes I have guests as you know, Chris, but generally they get to hear me every week with my thinking process and get to know me that way as well. So I think those two things have made it possible to sell from the sales page. Kris: Oh my gosh, yes, the podcast. Especially the solo, solo episodes when you're, you're literally in their ear. You're in their brain, and it is such an intimate moment, and they're gonna be listening at a time where they can really. Hear you. Um, even if they're doing the \[00:16:00\] dishes or taking the dog for a walk or whatever it is like that, just gentle, soft, persistent, getting to know somebody. Um, it, it's real, right? You're making this recording, but they're really getting to know you in such a beautiful way. I love that you prioritize your case study calls, and I a hundred percent resonate with this. I began to make this a priority about two years ago and after I worked with clients, I would schedule a 15 minute. Uh, case study call and just to talk about what's happened for them, what they were struggling with, where they're at now. And it is, I look forward, I'm a, I'm as obsessed as you are about these calls, and they're so fun. They, they really remind me of. How powerful the work that I do is. But it's also just like, it's such a joyful experience to watch what happens in people's lives as a result of, of \[00:17:00\] the work together. Um, video testimonials and video case study calls. I think a a, they're hard to get. A lot of people don't do them. A lot of people feel like they don't have time to do them. For many years, I felt like I don't have time to do that. Um, and then I realized this is proof. This is proof that what I'm doing is working for people and everyone's busy. Um, when you ask a client for a testimonial. It's kind of a big load, right? They don't know what to say. They, they don't know where to begin. No one wants to be on video. I mean, it's like there's a lot of hurdles to get over, which is why I don't do it that way. I, I book a 15 minute call and I let them know it's probably only gonna be 10 minutes, but. I'm gonna add five minutes in there just for a little cushion, and I ask them four questions and we get right to the heart of things, and \[00:18:00\] then I pull that video into script. I edit it down so I, I remove all the fluff I get, you know, I just get the good nuggets out of there and then upload it to my website and I then I have a page. Of proof, a page of proof. Everybody needs a page of proof. And even if you only have th three clients, even if you only have one client that you can say really experienced a good result with you, and they're willing to hop on a a short call, everyone's willing to hop on a short call. Nobody minds. A, a recorded zoom, call it, it's no big deal. But it's very different than having to pick up your phone and just speak to your own face and talk about a situation that you've been through. And so that's how I've kind of overcome that hurdle. And I think everybody, everyone wins, right? It's such a, to your point, it's such a good reminder to them of what they've accomplished and how far they've come and, and that is just the best. Joanna: \[00:19:00\] Oh, so, so good. And yes, like you say, on my website I have a page called Results with all of the different videos and I, that actually did come from a mentor who once said. What you eventually want is one of those pages where you just scroll and scroll and scroll and the social proof is never ending. And I remember at that point thinking I'm gonna create one of those. And I literally have. And now she says to me, 'cause now we're in a mastermind together at the same level. I cannot believe that you've prioritized this one bit of golden nugget, and she hasn't prioritized it quite as much as me now. So it's like, yeah, hilarious. That one small comment can make such a big impact in your business. Kris: A hundred percent. And you know what I, I love about what you just shared is that the page is called results, right? You, you just very clearly said this is, these are the results that people get in one word. Um, and I think I'm gonna change the name of mind to results, um, per your inspiration. So thank you for that. Oh, you're \[00:20:00\] so. I have a lot of coaches in my world. I'm, I'm intimately like I'm in a mastermind with other coaches. Um, I consider myself like a, a, a story strategist and a marketing strategist, and I. And I love story, but I'm in a world with a lot of other coaches and I work intimately. My clients, many of them, most of them are coaches, I would say. Um, things are changing a little bit. Like I feel like the times are changing. What, what are, what trends are you seeing and, and what do you see for the next year or two in the coaching industry? Joanna: Yes, totally. I do think things are changing massively. I think it's taking a lot longer for people to buy. So previously people would sign clients quite quickly, whereas now it takes a lot longer. Even the clients that work with me have generally been looking at me for a year plus prior to purchasing from me. So I do think buyer decisions are slower. \[00:21:00\] I think the hype is over. People are tiring, a bit of the hype, so I think that's died down and trust and in-person events are starting to come back. I'm hosting in-person event in a few weeks, and I throw in two of those a year to allow people to come and really experience what it's like. So yeah, things are changing. I think there'll hopefully always be a need for real true connection that AI can't replace. And I experienced that just myself yesterday when I was thinking, ah, should I do something different in my business? I tried to chat it through with chat GPT, and I just thought, gosh, you know what? I'm actually lonely, so I, I took the brave move of messaging my WhatsApp mastermind group and just said, has anyone got time for a call? Now, you know, usually you have to book in advance to speak to anybody these days. Mm-hmm. And I was just so desperate to just chat it through with someone. Yeah. So maybe it's that, maybe \[00:22:00\] it's more readily available. Coaching, a bit like the Loom, I use that a lot with my clients to feedback on their websites offers, so it can be instant in the moment that they need it. So there are a few of the changes I've noticed. Kris: Mm. Um, real similar to what you shared, I think, you know, the coaching industry is saturated. Um, and I think that. People, it's take, like you said, it's taking people longer to make a decision. Um, I think people are holding onto their money a little bit tighter than maybe they have been in the past. Um, and yeah, I think it just, I think also, I don't know if it's like. Economically or politically, or, or what it is, but I think people are just not as, um, willing to just dive into, uh. You know, a multiple thousand dollars investment as they might've been in the past. So it's different. Um, and, and \[00:23:00\] it, it's probably, it's not a bad thing. I think it's an evolution, you know, and I think people are, um, more savvy now when. When it comes to more marketing, manipulate manipulation tactics like countdown timers and timelines, and this is the only chance and dah, dah, dah, like all that bullshit, basically, I think people are not falling for it anymore, which is a really good thing. Like I think ultimately the real, uh, leaders, the real guides, the real. Like effective, tried and true coaches are always going to rise to the top. And I think you and I are both big believers in just authentic, honest marketing. And that's, it's not always the way to get, um, like it's not gonna necessarily get you the quickest result, but it's gonna be sustainable and effective over the long haul. Joanna: Yeah, totally. And it can feel quite frustrating. Like my \[00:24:00\] strap line is honesty, not hype. And sometimes it used to be really frustrating when you'd maybe have a sales call with somebody. This is a few years ago, and then, you know, the following week you'd see them in a Zoom call with someone. That's obviously said you can get a hundred k uh, in however, um, many days. Uh, that I don't see it as often anymore as I used to, but I still think it is out there and lots of people do get sucked into wanting that magic pill rather than the hard work. So it can feel frustrating. I think sometimes marketing with honesty, not hype, but like you say long term that I can sleep well at night. Yeah. That I can serve my clients well, that I can get amazing case studies, which most of these people are just. Pretend saying, oh, you know, this person got this. I've never seen these case studies from them before. So it's just words, isn't it? So I think you just have to go with your heart and gut and do what's right, don't you? Kris: absolutely. \[00:25:00\] So I've got one more question for you before we wrap up. Um, I wanna hear about how you've transitioned, um, from one-on-one work to group work and how you kind of keep that. Personal touch when you scale. I know this is really relevant for a lot of the clients that I work with and making that shift and the fear around, gosh, when I move to a group model, it's, it's gonna be impersonal or it's gonna be less effective. And I wanna hear y your experience of going one-on-one to group and how you've really. How you've made that transition and how you've maintained the connection, the intimacy, the success. Yeah, totally. Joanna: Yeah. I only run a group now. It has got quite large, and it's funny that every point I've thought, oh, I can't have any more than six people. I can't have any more than 10. And then I got to 20. I was like, I better stop. And now I think I have 45 people in my \[00:26:00\] current group program. Which makes me feel slightly sick. 'cause I always thought, I don't wanna have one of these impersonal large group programs. And then suddenly you're like, my program is quite large now, but it's not impersonal and I know every single person really well. And I think how I've done that is that it's all I sell. I don't even sell one-on-one really. So my group is my. My core focus. Mm-hmm. I use things like voice note looms so they can share exactly where they're at with me and I can immediately go back and hear them and see them and and help them with exactly where they're at. Rather than say, no, sorry, it's week two, or you have to wait for the group call. So I do give a lot of support offline. Rather, but not on one-on-one calls, but offline in different ways. I do lots of, I've created lots of systems, so we send like a personalized journal when they start. We'll send maybe cards when they gain their first client. We'll send a leaving gift when they leave. \[00:27:00\] Um, let's think, how else have I managed to create that personal touch? W we have, um, I have a Google form, so it's like a monthly action review. Mm. So they can complete that each month I'll send them a loom back. Mm. So it'll be like celebrating their success, hearing where they're at, asking what more support do you need? So I never have that sinking feeling of people being in the program and quietly, you know, not. Stepping forward and, and sharing what help that they need. Because I'm asking them, what more can I do to support you? So every month they get an opportunity to say, oh, I'm feeling this, or It would be great to have that. And again, I'll give them a personalized response to every thing there. So they're my key ways I think of keeping it personal. Kris: Um, tell me, um, I, I feel like from just what I'm hearing, like you've kind of cracked the code on how to not, how to avoid a launch model necessarily, and you've turned your program into evergreen, which I think is \[00:28:00\] like really what everybody wants, like usual from, that's my gut, although I have really. I intentionally avoided a launch model business and it is evergreen, but I do work one-on-one with my clients. So I wanna know for, from your perspective, how did you, did you transition? Were you doing launches and then you transitioned to Evergreen? And how the heck did you do that? Joanna: Yeah, great question because again, it's another thing that I think people really struggle with and I'm sometimes mind blown that I've achieved it. So yes, I started with five day challenges, which were obviously excruciatingly exhausting and you might work so hard to get two people to say yes after you've just literally given your life for a week, which is hard when you've got kids and, uh, all of the things. So yes, that's how I used to do it. And then I saw someone online, which is why I think it's really important that we \[00:29:00\] do share our stories, saying that she was running an evergreen program, working school hours, only term time only. I. And I thought, God, that's, how does that work? How can I take? So we have quite a long holiday here, six weeks in the summer. I've got a week off next week. You know, we have a lot of holidays here, so I was confused as to how it would work, but I thought I would try it considering I saw that she was managing it. And so first it was a bit of a trickle, so it was kind of still felt launchy. 'cause I didn't really know what I was doing. So maybe I had six people join from the launch and then I had one person join the following month and then the other six would be coming up to their end date. 'cause it used to be a three month program. Mm-hmm. So I think my learning there is, if you're gonna do Evergreen, it really needs to be a six month to ensure you don't get to that awkward position where. Six are leaving and there's one person in the program. Right? So that was a learning. So I extended them, gifted them another three months because I was like, oh my goodness, like what am I gonna do? \[00:30:00\] And, and then I just slowly started getting my head around it. The podcast, which is that Deep Evergreen marketing, the case studies. And just having that one call to action for absolutely everything that I do is, this is the only way to work with me. So you will have people, and I still get people all the time going, oh, well I just want two sessions with you to, you know, create my niche, create my offer, whatever it might be. And I sometimes, I don't really often anymore, but I sometimes used to give into that, whereas now I think I want the case study. Luckily, my obsession with the case study, I'm like, I don't wanna just give you two sessions because that's not gonna do anything for me or for you. Joanna: Because great. You'll go off with your niche or you'll go off with your offer. But I wanna see you consistently implement it so you get the result that you want, which then gives me the result that I want, which is the case study, right? And obviously they get the amazing business at the end of it. So I just got really good at saying, no, this is what I offer and if you wanna work with me, \[00:31:00\] this is how you can do that. I now, um, there's some new things that I've put in place to be a lot stricter with it. So now, for example, I have a start date at the beginning of each month, which I didn't use to have. They could genuinely, one would join one week, one would join the next week, whereas now that creates that natural. Urgency that there kind of is a start date and it says 3rd of June or 3rd of July, and I change that each month. So they do get that little thing in their head of like, if I wanna do it this month, I do need to do it by the 3rd of June, so I get that. Also, there's only five spaces available each month. Yeah, because obviously it's that beginning period that they really do need a lot of help. Yeah. So I used to have on my website, you know, two out of five spaces available, and I genuinely go in and manually update it when people join. So it is real and not fake scarcity. And then I've just learned how to craft my calls. To be able to handle people wherever they're at on the \[00:32:00\] journey. And lots of that is by giving personal support outside of the calls, because sometimes. You know, people are bored with listening to somebody else's niche drama. So for, for certain things, I will say, just message me about that and we'll go back and forth as many times as we need to. Yeah. So you get really clear on that. So I, I'm quite strict of the sorts of things people bring to the calls and I do a lot of activities on the calls that will be suitable for everyone rather than it be a boring q and a each week, which is just kind of dull. Kris: Right. Wow. You are definitely onto something here. So Joanna, it has been such a delight to have you here, and I just, it feels good to really connect with someone who I feel like is in a lot of alignment with the way I run my business, and I think it's beautiful. I'm so grateful that you shared all your wisdom with us today. Tell my audience where they can find you. Joanna: Yes, totally. Thank you. It's been an \[00:33:00\] absolute pleasure and I have a podcast too called Women in the Coaching Arena, so you can check that out. And my website is joanna lot coaching.com. So Joanna with an A and lots with two t's, joanna lots coaching.com and I've got a free, um, success planner for coaches on there, which will take you through from. Literally every single step of the way of building your business. So, um, yes, I would love to meet you. All right, thank you. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-website-client-converting-framework ### Title: Turn Your Website Into a Client-Converting Machine Using StoryBrand ### Page ID: 7549711 ### Content: Turn Your Website Into a Client-Converting Machine Using StoryBrand I just got off a call with a brilliant coach who dropped a bomb on me: she spent $20,000 on her website redesign and still isn't getting clients. The site? Absolutely gorgeous. Professional photos, perfect color palette, clean design - the works. Look, I see this all the time. Smart service providers think a prettier website equals more clients. But here's what I've learned after helping hundreds of coaches and consultants: A beautiful website without story is just an expensive digital brochure. In today's episode, I'm sharing the exact framework that fixes this: ✨ Why 99% of websites fail to convert (even the $20K ones) ✨ The "hero trap" that's secretly sabotaging your success ✨ How to pass the 5-second test that separates websites that work from ones that don't When you get your story right, something magical happens. Your ideal clients stop shopping around because they finally feel understood. They're not just buying your service - they're buying into their own transformation story. Your story is your competitive advantage - time to use it! Turn Your Website Into a Client-Converting Machine Using StoryBrand CTC Ep. 38 | Turn Your Website Into a Client-Converting Machine Using StoryBrand Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Hello there. Today we are talking about how to turn your website into a client generating machine using StoryBrand. Your website should act as your top sales employee, and if it isn't doing its job, I am gonna break down the exact structure that I use to fix that for good. I'll be answering rapid fire questions to keep it. Okay. I'll be answering some rapid fire questions to keep it casual and real, so let's go. Okay. Why do so many good looking websites not work? They don't work because they're not using story to sell. they don't work because they're not clear. So StoryBrand \[00:01:00\] really helps break down the structure of a story. So I'm talking about the story that we've told to each other as humans from the beginning of time. This is how we gathered around the fireside way, way, way back when. So that same structure is used in every story you've ever heard, every movie you've ever read to every book that you've ever read follows the same story. Structure when we walk into a movie theater and the lights dim and we get pulled into the movie and for 90 minutes, we do not get distracted. We don't look at our phone, we don't go to the bathroom. We don't go get popcorn. We are fully immersed in this movie. So if story has the power to capture our attention in that way, why wouldn't we also use the power of story in our messaging on our websites, wherever we talk about our business, we should be doing it using the structure \[00:02:00\] of story. So a website might be really beautiful, but it might also be beautiful and not work to get you new clients. and there are a lot of reasons for that, but the main ones are: there's no story being told. When I look at a lot of websites online or my potential client's websites, we look at their website together, often there's no story being told at all, and on top of that, the messaging is, is unclear. I am left when I'm reading the website with more questions than answers, and we never want to make our website visitors work to figure out what it is that we do, how we can make their life better. What's the one big problem that we solve for our clients? What's the transformation we provide? What, what's the next step that they need to take to work with us? So kind of a, blanket answer to that question. Why do so many good looking websites not actually work. It \[00:03:00\] really comes down to story, no story being told and really confusion. too many words.Lack of clarity, trying to cover too much territory with the website. The website is, is really, I liken it to like a first five minute coffee date. It is not your resume. It is not your life's background. It is a first five minute coffee date meant to create enough interest and enough intrigue in order to get them excited about taking that next step with you. We've, in order for them to wanna book a call with you or buy your offer, we've gotta build trust. We've gotta cultivate connection. We have to establish resonance. And story is the most effective tool to create all of that. And so that's why I use it in, everything that I do, both for my own business and for my clients' work. Okay. the next question, can you share a story of someone who spent a \[00:04:00\] ton and still got crickets? Yes. a lot of clients come to me after they've spent thousands of dollars. I had a, a client recently who had spent about over $20,000 on a website redesign. She hired a really gifted designer, and honestly, the, the site looked beautiful, like the color palette was gorgeous. the stock photos were really pretty. Even the font treatment was really nice. But when we moved through the site, it was really clear. There was just no story being told. And this is a really, difficult moment that I have with. My clients when they've forked over a lot of money, to revamp their website, but yet they thought the issue was design, that if their website looked better, they would get more clients. But ultimately, even when it looks better, it's not gonna work to get you clients if it's not telling a story. So essentially \[00:05:00\] she worked with me and we were able to work with the original design and infuse a story into the design. So in the end, she had a beautiful website, but she also had a really powerful and compelling story. And then immediately just people started responding, clicking on that call to action. I mean, the whole goal is to get people to click on the call to action and, and those people need to be "right fit" clients. So there's a lot that goes into it. But ultimately, when you tell a really powerful and compelling story, and you pair that with beautiful design, beautiful, wonderful, magical things happen, and your business is able to grow pretty effortlessly. Okay. the next question is, what even is StoryBrand? Like, what is it? What if, what if you've never read the, the book Building a StoryBrand? Um, most business owners, most coaches, most most consultants are somewhat familiar with it or have, have heard the term before. \[00:06:00\] But I'm gonna give you the really quick, you know. thirty second overviews so you really understand what it is. And I touched on this earlier. Essentially there's a formula for every story that's ever been told. And when I say formula, that can kind of have a negative connotation to it. But really when you think of, The amount of movies that have been made that are so dramatically different from each other, right? The, the, the same movie has never been made twice, and even though all movies follow the same story formulas, so there's, there's limitless, limitless creativity that can happen within the framework. But when somebody tries to make a movie and abandons the framework or abandons the formula, the movie flops, and so again, why not \[00:07:00\] capitalize on a framework that that has the power to capture the human brain's attention in the most effective way. So StoryBrand really breaks it down. really in a nutshell, every story you've ever heard begins with a character or a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. They're out and about trying to find somebody who can help them solve their problem. And that's when, about a third of the way into the, to the movie or the story, there is a guide that comes into the picture. And the hero meets the guide. The guide knows how to overcome this problem. And the thing I want you to remember here is that you're the guide and your clients are the hero of the story. And so your job is the guide, is to really break things down for them. You wanna encourage them to take action because you know, if they don't do anything. Nothing's gonna change. They have to take action in order to reach their transformation. And so as the guide, your job is to really \[00:08:00\] break it down for them and give them a very simple three step plan. Step one is the call to action. Step two is engaging in work with you as a coach. And step three is the happy end result. Our brains wanna know. When is that happy end result gonna happen? Like, where's the carrot at the end of all this? Where's the end goal? And so the plan reassures them, okay, all I have to do is step one, two, and three until I get my happy end result. So your job as the guide is to step in and have just so much empathy. So much empathy for your client, and you get it right. You've either overcome this struggle yourself, or you've helped other people. A lot of other people overcome it, so you just show up with a lot of empathy, some authority. You give them a plan. The plan is the thing when they read it, like they've been stuck in their problem for a long time, and so. They're, they're feeling a little bit discouraged and \[00:09:00\] the plan, when they read it, they have this internal thought, which is, "I can do this." "This is not as hard as I thought it was gonna be". And when they have that internal thought, they click on your call to action. Everything we do on your website is in service of clicking on this call to action. That's how we know the website's working. People are clicking on your call to action, so the plan encourages them and inspires them to click on the call to action. Now, the last step in every story is really about stakes. Stakes just mean there's success to be had and there's also failure that's possible. And we wanna create a nice, healthy tension between those two things. So we pull them through and we keep them engaged in the story through stakes. And so we wanna go heavy on success and really continually remind them what's in it for them, how they're gonna benefit from it, from solving this problem and working with us. But we also wanna gently put our hands on their back and we wanna just say. If you do \[00:10:00\] nothing, here's the truth. You're gonna keep, you know what's gonna happen if, if you do nothing, right? That's really the the question I want you to answer in that stake section. What happens for them if they don't do anything? They don't make any changes, they don't solve this problem, and so it might mean continued overwhelm. It might mean eventual burnout. It might mean missing out on profits. it might mean staying at a weight that they're not comfortable with or that that's not healthy for them long term. So those are the components of a, of any story, brand story and actually any story you've ever heard. and it's incredibly powerful. Again, our brains are really wired for it. And so Donald Miller. Kind of broke the story framework down in a way that business owners could then apply it to their own businesses. And let me tell you, when I adopted the framework in 2017, magical, magical things started happening both for my own business, but \[00:11:00\] more importantly for my clients and I watched them like book, like a record breaking amount of lead calls. I watched them increase their rates. there was a client of mine who increased his rates six times, and didn't, didn't change the amount of work he was doing, he was just showing up, really connecting with potential clients and really showing his value. And that's the other thing that happens when we tell a very compelling story and we're very clear about the problem that we solve. people are so relieved that they found us, oh, I found the right person. This is the person that I know is going to help me overcome this challenge. And so they're happy to pay what you're worth. Okay. Next question. Why does flipping the script client as hero, you as guide, change everything? So. what happens when we do this? Number one, I wanna, I wanna say this, the weakest character in every story is the actual hero. Um, we don't know if the hero's gonna succeed or if they're \[00:12:00\] gonna fail, and so they're not the strongest character in the story. The strongest character in the story is the guide, and that's why you wanna position yourself as the guide. Famous guides are like Yoda, Mr. Miyagi Hamit in Hunger Games. So you really wanna show up as the guide. And when a potential client comes to your website light, they are wanting to. Feel a connection. They're wanting to understand what it is you do, how you can help them. And when you position your client as the hero, you're showing them that they matter to you more than anything. Their struggles matter to you. Their success matters to you, and it matters so much that you make them the central character in your story. Yes, you are part of the story too. You are the guide and that's a, the, the most important role. But we want our heroes to feel seen. We want them to feel heard. We want them to feel like they're not alone in their struggle. \[00:13:00\] And when we do this, then they automatically think that the best ones to fix it. So there's, there's incredibly wonderful things that happen when you position your clients as the hero and yourself as the guide. All of a sudden they look at you with respect and trust and connection, and they feel like, of course I finally found the person that's gonna help me. What happens when a coach makes themselves the hero of their own story?The quick answer to this question is, you know, the number one I just wanna share, this is like 99% of the websites on the internet right now. Most coaches, most business owners are making themselves the hero of their own story, and I, I totally understand why this happens. You think. I've gotta get my website up. I've, I've got a business, I've gotta get clients. I've gotta, you know, crank out a website. So you get on \[00:14:00\] Squarespace or Wix or Kajabi or whatever and you throw it up and you kind of follow their template. But the thing about those builders, which I really like all those builders actually, but the templates that they provide you, encourage you to position yourself as the hero. And they don't do this to be mean. They just do this because they're not in the business of strategic websites. They're in the business of a, a pretty website. So they wanna make it easy. Here's the template, throw it up, Fill in the blanks and done and done. The problem is you end up with a website that I call it like a brochure website because it doesn't actually inspire anyone to take action. It kind of just sits there like a bump on a log wasting wifi, and that doesn't help you grow, right? That doesn't get you clients. So I know you want an effective website and. When you position yourself as the hero, you're actually, your website won't be as effective because you're painting yourself as the weakest character in the \[00:15:00\] story, and your potential clients can't envision themselves engaging with you because there's only room for one hero in every story. So if you have taken that role and then you have a hero coming to your website, they're like, oh, that role's taken. I can't. I can't picture myself here. And what happens is a lot, I mean this, most of this happens unconsciously, but they come to your website and they're like, "huh, seems like a credible coach, but I'm gonna keep looking" because they aren't feeling that connection, they're not feeling that trust. They can't see themselves in your story because you are the hero of your own story. So. I really, again, just wanna double down on as a coach or as a consultant, you've got to position your clients as the hero and yourself as the guide if you want your website to work. Okay. we'll do a few more questions and then we're gonna sign off for today. Let's talk about the header of your website. So this is really that area of the website that shows up right when somebody comes \[00:16:00\] to your page. in this section, you've got about five seconds to communicate. What do you do? How's it gonna make their life better? And what do you want them to do next? So this might like look like, coaching for women over 40 that, are struggling with weight loss, or you really wanna identify what do you do? And that would be coaching or consulting or a group program or a course. What is it? What is it? You know, what is it? Define that, and then who's it for? So we wanna identify our hero, and then we wanna very clearly show them what's in it for them. How are they gonna benefit from this? So it might mean, you know, work less, make more, or finally fit into your favorite jeans. Like, what, how are they gonna benefit from that? Lengthen your life because you're gonna be more fit, whatever it is, right? We wanna, we want to reassure their brain that they're gonna benefit from this. And then \[00:17:00\] the most important thing is the call to action. What do you want them to do next? And so often, I was just reviewing some websites today, the call to action was at the very bottom of the page. And I had to scroll all the way down to find it. You want that call to action to be right up on the front, right in the header area, and ideally in the upper right hand corner of your website. That's the most valuable real estate on your entire webpage. So the call to action needs to be there, and when I talk about a call to action, I could talk about this for another 30 minutes, but the call to action. It needs to show them what you want them to do next. For most coaches, this would be book a call, book a discovery call. And I would say that's probably the most common one book a discovery call. But we really wanna rethink that call to action. So how can we. Make it more compelling. How can you integrate a benefit into the call to action? So for example, \[00:18:00\] I used to have on my website book a clarity call. Not bad. It was fine. When I changed the wording to book a Money-Making Messaging Call, all a sudden I started getting a lot more calls booked. And that's because I wove in. A benefit to it. And it's true, they do get that benefit from getting on the call with me. They learn how to craft a story and tune up their website so it makes them more money. So what's a benefit that you could offer in your call to action in booking a call with you? Are they gonna get clarity on the, the roadmap to. weight loss or are they gonna get some other kind of strategy? Are they gonna get a growth strategy? Are they gonna going to, clean out the clutter in their home? Are they gonna become a better parent? So, you know, if it's a parenting call, for example, if your ideal clients are parents, There's a, there's a website that I did for a client who helped women co-parent with \[00:19:00\] calm and peace. And I wanna say her call to action was like, book a, a co-parenting strategy call. And so what that did was it help people understand that this is not just a call that they're gonna get sold on. Like they're not gonna show up to this call and just be sold to. They're actually gonna get value from the call. And so we wanna be honest, of course, we really do wanna give value. We also on the call, want to, I think both people wanna understand like, would this be a good fit for working together? And I think that that's a fairexpectation, but also we wanna give value to them. So when you name your call to action, make it short, make it concise, but weave in a benefit Like book a call versus even book a strategy call. Like if I know I'm gonna get some kind of strategy on the call That word has so much more value in it than just a book a call. So when they land on your website, what do you do? How's it gonna make \[00:20:00\] their life better? And what do you want them to do next? If you can accomplish those three things in under five seconds, you have done the most important work on your website. Kris: All right. That is all for today. In the next episode, we're gonna go over more questions and go even deeper into StoryBrand. So I want to thank you for being here today. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/email-list-building-sales-coaching-tracy-beavers ### Title: Turn Your DMs Into Your Email List: Tracy Beavers' System for Effortless Growth ### Page ID: 7576948 ### Content: Turn Your DMs Into Your Email List: Tracy Beavers' System for Effortless Growth I just wrapped up an incredible conversation with Tracy Beavers, and I had to share this with you immediately. Tracy dropped some serious truth bombs about why most service providers feel invisible online (hint: it's not because you're not good enough). ? Your email list is your business insurance policy - When Instagram crashed for 36 hours, one coach made $14,000 while others lost thousands ? DM conversations are goldmines - Tracy shows exactly how to turn casual social media chats into loyal email subscribers ? Sales doesn't have to feel icky - Her relationship-first approach removes all the pressure and awkwardness The most powerful moment? When Tracy shared how her client Rita went from feeling scattered to having people say "I see you everywhere online" - while actually working LESS. That's the power of focusing on relationships over hustle. If you've been exhausting yourself trying to be on every platform, creating endless content, or feeling like your amazing work isn't reaching the right people... this episode will be a game-changer. Turn Your DMs Into Your Email List: Tracy Beavers' System for Effortless Growth CTC Ep. 39 | Turn Your DMs Into Your Email List: Tracy Beavers' System for Effortless Growth Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Tracy Beavers, welcome to from Click to Client. I am so thrilled to have you here today. Thank you so much for having me, Chris. So tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do. Tracy: Yeah. I am a business and sales coach from Little Rock, Arkansas. I. I am also a wife, a mom to two young adults, which blows my mind. The empty nester thing sometimes is great, and sometimes it's meh. Um, and I'm a dog mom. The last child we have left in the house is our, our Labrador patent. Um, my, my trusty coworker sidekick during the day. But, uh, my, my story is that about seven years ago, I. I never would've thought I was gonna be an an entrepreneur. Um, I went to high school, graduated college, graduate, get the job, stay in the job for 40 \[00:01:00\] years, get the pension, you know, that's how old I am. Back then there was a pension and, you know, things started to change in corporate and it just started to not feel like the right fit anymore, which really shocked me. But I had an award-winning, um, over 20 year award-winning sales career. Marketing business development, gaining market share, growing, you know, portfolios and all that. And I decided that I really needed to take my gifts and talents and go help small business owners grow. And so that's how I ended up here. It evolved into, it started out working here locally with all the people that knew my track record and had known me for years. And then it evolved into the online space when I started realizing that, you know, I could have clients all over the world. And so here I am. Kris: Wow. And and what was it like when you were in corporate? Tracy: this is not for me anymore? You're never gonna believe this when I tell you. So I knew that I didn't have any control over my time. I knew that it's eight to five, you get so much PTO, you get so much sick time, you know, one hour lunch, all that. But I thought having a con, a commission \[00:02:00\] structure to my. Paycheck, you know, eat what you kill. Right? You can make as much money as you want. Well, no, not when you work for a CEO that wants to monkey around with the commission structure. Every time people started to really gain traction and make a lot of money. Wow. And I was, I'm still kind of shocked that it happened because the more, the more I produced, the more money that company made. And so I don't quite know what was going on, but I just was like, wow. Okay. I don't even have any control over this. And it was stressful, um, production role and, you know, sometimes 12 hour days. And I just was like, wow. My kids at that, at that point were high school and middle school. And I was like, what am I doing? You know, I'm going to work for somebody I can't trust anymore. Mm-hmm. How can I step? And I asked him that. I was like, how can I step out in good faith and represent your company and bring you new clients? When I don't know how that's gonna result for me. He didn't really have a good answer, so I was like, okay, okay. But then I had the, uh, \[00:03:00\] the um, uh, the next moment of, oh, okay, Tracy, if you don't wanna do that. What do you wanna do? You know, it's like, okay, well, corporate's all, you know. Yeah. Um, if you're gonna ditch that, what the heck does that look like? So it, it was, it was an interesting time. Kris: Yeah. And how did you figure out, like, how'd you figure out what that was gonna be for you? Um, number one and number two, like, how did you begin to really build your business? Tracy: Great question. I was fortunate enough, um, to be in a really, um, great women's mastermind at the time. It wasn't centered around any certain theme. It was, um, basically women in the community that we had all known each other for a while and we all wanted to level up in some way. So everybody was coming at it from a different direction. Some people wanted to be better moms, some people wanted to be to get the next promotion. Some people wanted to start businesses. And so I was sitting there with those women and I was like, y'all are never gonna believe what the heck just happened. And I told 'em the story and they knew that I hadn't been happy for a while. Like I just really was tired of the grind. And um, they were like, well. \[00:04:00\] Sounds like you need to have your own business. And I'm like, well, what am I gonna do? And they were like, okay. They're like, listen, people are always coming to you asking you for sales advice. How are you so successful in sales? How do you make this look so easy? How are you growing these businesses so fast? 'cause the business, the company that I left, I had grown their market share 86% the first year I was there. Tracy: I mean, I was pretty good at what I did. Yeah. But these women who knew me well, they were like Tracy. You need to help people build their businesses and teach them how to do sales. And I'm like, but sales is easy for everybody because Chris, I thought, because sales was easy for me. Mm-hmm. I thought it was easy for everybody else. And they're like, uh, no, it's not. And so then they said, okay, well have you ever thought about being a coach? And I'm in Arkansas and we are slow on the uptake on the trend. And I was like, that's a thing. And they're like, yes, that's a thing. So I just felt like such a dummy, you know, I just had no idea what was out there beyond corporate. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so if I hadn't been in that mastermind. I don't know. I'm not sure if I would've figured it out. Um, and I really did just, I laugh when I think about where I started. I \[00:05:00\] was the most not niched down person you will ever meet. I was a business and sales coach. I was like, come on, you wanna build your business? And people are like, well, what do you, how do you do that? And I'm like, we just, you know. Just build the business. And so anyway, I, I had to figure out my messaging. I had to figure out what I liked teaching, um, and, and just go and let it evolve. And it did. And then I discovered the online space and I was like, Hmm, that's a, that sounds pretty good. Kris: Yeah. Limitless. Truly. Yeah. I mean, it, it's interesting, like what I love about what you just shared was like this idea that as humans, whether we're employees or. Self-employed. We are really inside the bottle trying to read that label. That can only be read from the outside and that is the gift of a coach or your mastermind group to really look at you and be like, duh, they just saved you. They just saved you. Years of like trying to come up with things. 'cause Uhhuh so often we're like. When we're good at something like you are naturally gifted in sales like \[00:06:00\] you really do, you really do assume that it's easy for everybody. And I will tell you, I work with a lot of service providers and business owners and coaches. Sales is the most uncomfortable part. Of the process, right? You can have a powerful message, you can have a great website, but when you get on those sales calls, Kris: if there's a broken link there, it's really going to. A hundred percent it's gonna affect your revenue and your profits. Kris: tell me now, like when you work with clients, clearly you, you figured out your niche, your messaging Yeah. And your, your special sauce. Um, when clients come to you now, what are they complaining about? What are they struggling with? Tracy: They feel invisible in the online space because it is loud and it is crowded. Um, they feel that they're afraid. They're not gonna find their audience. They're not sure how to attract their ideal audience to them, and they have forgotten that they need to build an email list. So they're, \[00:07:00\] they're exhausted because they're creating con some, you know, some people think that you have to create seven days worth of content and be on every platform in order to have success and have. High visibility enough to attract your clients. You don't. I'm living proof. When I was building this business alongside my full-time corporate job, I went all in on Facebook. That's all I had time for. It's the platform I knew best. LinkedIn back then was the place to go get a job, so I wasn't gonna go there. Um, and Instagram, I had never really used it and I, I just didn't think that was the platform for me. But, you know, posting three or four days a week on one platform, but making sure that you're consistent with it. So that the algorithm starts to pick you up so that your audience starts to expect you and making sure that your content speaks to them and leads to your email list is the key to the whole thing. Tracy: they would also, um, they would completely forget to build an audience and build a list. Mm-hmm. They would throw some social media out there. Mm-hmm. Exhaust themselves. Stop posting for a couple of weeks till they caught their breath and they'd start up again. That's, that's like pushing a boulder up a hill and then letting it fall all the way back down. Right. You \[00:08:00\] know, you've gotta, you've gotta keep it up there, even if it's just with a, however, however many posts a week you can do. Right. Some regular, weekly content. And then, um, they were creating awesome offers. They were like, nobody's buying my offer. And I'm like, well, do you have anybody in your audience? Do you have a list? Are you having DM conversations with anybody? Tracy: And they're like, no. And then, you know, the whole sales thing really throws people for a loop. Like the minute I say the word sales, everybody just goes, Tracy: God, you know, I don't wanna talk about that. I don't wanna think about it. But we have to sell our product. We have to sell our product, our offers, and we have to let people know about them. Otherwise we don't have anybody to buy 'em. Kris: How do you help your clients shift their mindset around sales? Tracy: Yeah. Um, I was just talking to another colleague about this earlier today. For me, what made me successful year over year in sales was I did not focus on the sale. So what I share with my clients and my students is I want you to take the word sales. The sale out of your, out of your brain, take it out of the equation. It, this is not a transaction. We \[00:09:00\] are not trying to sell people knives or, you know, pots and pans or encyclopedias like people did door to door back when you and I were little or maybe when I was little. No, no, no. I'm right there with you. Yeah, no. What, in order to shift your mindset around sales, what I want people to understand is that the sale comes as a result of making the connection and building the relationship. It comes as a, as a byproduct. Um, so when I was in corporate sales, um, and, and now my goal is to be a warm, kind, human being, meeting with another warm, kind human being, whether it's on Zoom or in the dms, you know, or in person, and getting to know them and asking them about themselves, where can we find that common ground? Because. Every person you meet will fit into your life or your business in some way. They may not be a client today. That doesn't mean in six months that their circumstances haven't changed and they need to hire you. It also doesn't mean that the next day they run into somebody that needs your services and they refer you or you know, the \[00:10:00\] other cool thing that can happen is what you and I are doing right now, an awesome collaboration where, um. I am, you know, having an opportunity to talk to your audience and grow my audience through yours. And then I'm gonna have you on my podcast and we're gonna, we're gonna, um, let my audience hear from you and grow your audience through mine. I mean, you just never know where the connection's gonna lead. And so if we just, that's so Tracy: Focus on meeting that other person and making that connection and finding. How can we help each other? Mm-hmm. The sale will take care of itself. They will self-identify when I tell them what I do, if they need what I have, they will say it. Mm-hmm. And so it's not my job to worry about whether or not they buy something. Kris: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's, that's so beautiful. That takes all the pressure off, right? Just But you've gotta be clear about what you do. Yeah. First, right? Yes. Let's, let's rewind for a moment. I wanna get back to the list building, because I think this is, you're right. It's the piece of the puzzle that I think a lot of people either forget or they put it lower on the priority list because \[00:11:00\] social media is. So, um, ever present in our lives and, and we feel like, oh my gosh, we have to be on, on social all the time. We have to be everywhere doing everything. So let, when a client comes to you or when you're having a conversation about the list, like if I were to say, what's the big deal with an email list? Yeah. Why do I need to grow that? What, tell me how, how you'd. Respond. Tracy: Yeah, I'm gonna try not to get on my soapbox on this one. Do it. Do it well. 'cause the reality is every single business needs an email list. Every single business. I mean, think about it. Loft and Taylor, I'm on their email list and they're emailing me three times a day. Bath and Body Works. Oh, my stars in heaven. I think it's five times a day, right down to a mom and pop boutique. Um, you know, the local running store where I bought my shoes to people like you and I that are in the online space. Every single business, whether it's product, service, brick and mortar, online, whatever, needs an email list because, um, social media is weird.\[00:12:00\] Who knows what the algorithm is doing. I don't even think the people that are supposed to be in charge of the algorithm know what the algorithm is doing. I've pretty much decided nobody knows, and so while we need to have an online presence, every kind of business needs to have an online presence. We really just need to have enough of an online presence with the right messaging to get the favor of the algorithm so that our audience can see some of the stuff we do. The reality is that. Very small percentage of people, um, that I am connected with on Facebook will see every single thing I post. And people will say, well then why are you doing it? Well, again, it's my job not to worry about the result. It's my job to make sure I'm consistent with my content. Mm-hmm. So that those that do see it are attracted to it and pulling them offline onto my list. We do not own these platforms. We are not in control of the decisions these platform owners make or don't make, or the algorithm or anything else. And so that email list though, um, TikTok is a prime example of this. We'd been going through it with TikTok. It was here, then it wasn't, then it was back. Is it still here? Is it here? And gonna stay? Who \[00:13:00\] knows, I pray those people that are on TikTok are building an email list. I truly do. Um, Instagram and Facebook shut down about two years ago for about 36 hours, and um, I'm in the Meta Leader Leaders Network. I. Facebook group, which is very meta to put the meta leaders in a Facebook group. Um, so when the lights came back on it, there were some success stories and there were some sad stories. There were thousands of small business owners that lost a lot of money because they were relying on social media to reach their audience. They did not have a list. The people that made money, um, one of my mentors sent a couple of emails to her list. She made $14,000. I don't even think she knew Facebook and Instagram shut down. I mean, she just didn't skip a beat, right? And so my question is, which one would you rather be? Would you rather be the one that is building a business on a piece of property you don't own that you have no control over that could be ripped out from underneath you without notice? Or would you rather be like the $14,000 person and have all of your ideal clients right there with you right there in your pocket? Because I feel like when I land, I feel like when, when I am in somebody's inbox, I've landed in their \[00:14:00\] living room. It's a, it's a privilege and it's a treat because they wanna be with me. Mm-hmm. And through that inbox I can really have a conversation through some, um, really creative ways to get people to reply back. I've been having so much fun with that this year. My subscribers are replying back, which is a hoot. Um, and you know, you can really have those conversations that open up that connection again, and the opportunity to see. If you can help them, if they can help you, you know, where's the connection gonna go? Kris: Yeah. Uh, te what are, what are some of the things that you're doing to inspire people to reply back to Tracy: you? Yeah. This, it's been so much fun. So, um, so the very first email that I sent this year, it was, um, about. Um, in the p Okay, so first of all, the subject line and the Ps are the most read parts of the email. So you wanna really catchy subject line to get 'em to open it, and then you can put the reply back either right before your signature, or sometimes I put it in the ps. So I've been using some of my free lead magnets to get people to reply back my podcast, my YouTube channel, things that \[00:15:00\] I already have. So the first email I sent of 2025, it said something like, in the PS, did you talk crap to yourself? The majority of 2024, like most people I know if you did, I have a less than one minute exercise that helps you rewire your brain when those bad thoughts come in. So if you'd like it. Reply back the word rewire and I'll set you up for an awesome 2025. And I had like 20 people reply back. That's and which is not a huge number. If you look at how many people I have on my list. My list is anywhere from my list averages around 4,000 people. So I was like, oh, I had 20 people. I was excited. I thought if those 20 people were in my bathroom with me, that would be a lot of people. Right. That's a room full of people. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No, that was really fun. And then, uh, the other day I sent out one that said, um, so I was talking about sales and my live training that week was gonna be about sales and the ICH factor and how everybody feels about it. And so I said, reply back and tell me the first word or audible noise that came to mind when I said that word sales. And just a few people replied, but it was really funny. Goodness. Like one of em said, I, I, I just threw up in my mouth when I read your, your reply back. And I was like, that is so great. But it, it, it, it's like, oh my \[00:16:00\] gosh, thank you for sharing. And then, you know, I replied back. Thank you for sharing that with me. That Right. Why does sales make us feel so icky? I hope you'll tune into the training. How have you been? What do you have on deck for Q2? How is your year looking? And it just again, gives you an opportunity to have that genuine conversation with that other person. Just in a quick comment here that you get 'em outta your dms and onto your email list. Mm-hmm. Let's break that down. 'cause that actually is a really big deal to like make that transition from an online platform into your email list. I'm assuming that it's related to a really juicy freebie or how, tell us like break How are you doing that? It could be related to a really great freebie. It could also be related to one of my favorite ways to grow an email list is my free Facebook group. Um, Facebook groups are. Brilliant marketing strategies 'cause they, they are community. You can get in there amongst your ideal clients. You can get into a group where your \[00:17:00\] collaboration partners are hanging out and you can really build some relationships. So in the DM conversation, if I'm having a DM conversation with somebody, let's say that you and I met in a virtual networking session today. And I went and looked you up on Facebook, sent you a friend request and you accepted it. And then a little while later, um, 'cause I don't wanna pounce on you immediately, a little while later, I sent you a message. Hey Chris, so much fun to see you in the x, y, Z networking session. You know, how were your breakout sessions? Did you meet some cool people? I. And you're gonna reply back something. And what I would like to do is I would like to get to know you, deepen that connection and see is offering you my free Facebook group group a benefit to you for, for online entrepreneurs it is because we have 3,800 online ENT entrepreneurs. Um, you can promote your offer anytime you can ask for support, feedback. I mean, it's a really beautiful community. Mm-hmm. But by the way, I have my Facebook group entry questions set up. You wanna join my email list? Tracy: why my list grows by hundreds of people every single month. Um, that and the other strategies I have in place that showcase my, my free Facebook group. Also, you could offer somebody a free, a free \[00:18:00\] resource like we're talking about, you know, like, um. If I'm sharing with you what I do and you're like, oh my gosh, I keep forgetting to grow my email list. And I'm like, well, what part about that feels hard? Is it, is it this or that? And you reply one of those options. And if I've got a free lead magnet for you, like, um, let's say, well, here's a good, here's a better example. I have a free lead magnet on, um, how to go live without getting hives. So if the subject turned to video, you know, what's your regular piece of weekly content? Are you going live or whatever? And you're like, heck no, I'm not going live. I might pass out. I can offer you that free resource. Mm-hmm. And then I can check back with you in a few days and see how it went for you. Kris: Yeah. It's just showing up with a genuine heart to help. Right. Exactly. It, it's so simple. Mm-hmm. And I think, you know, we, it can sound daunting or scary, but when you break it down like that, it feels totally doable because Yeah. You're, you're not, you're just genuinely trying to help and that's what exactly what a lovely way to show up online. Kris: Um. Okay. So you had mentioned, you mentioned on your website that a \[00:19:00\] client named Susan got 50% growth. Mm-hmm. Um, tell me what, what did you do differently or what did she do differently in order to like achieve that kind of result? Tracy: Yeah. So my clients achieve that kind of result a lot, whether it's 50% more clients. Um, I just had one of my one-to-one clients this week say, you know, we're here, we are on May 28th, and she's already got seven new clients just this month, and the month isn't even over yet. Um, so it's, but when it comes to list growth, and I, and forgive me, I. Haven't looked at my website in a while, so I don't know exactly where the 50% growth came from her, for her, but I'm assuming it was from for her email list. Um, so I have over 10 strategies that I teach in my eight week group coaching program. Um, and there's when you layer the strategies in the right order. Then the list growth starts to happen in the background of your business just automatically every day without you having to think about growing your email list. Um, so things like maximizing your social media profile, whether you are on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, mighty Networks, circle, wherever you have a social profile, that social profile \[00:20:00\] needs to grow your list in some way. People need to know how to connect with you and land on your list. So that's one basic thing I teach. Then, um, being in Facebook groups where her ideal clients are hanging out and being visible and being of service, I. When people get curious about her, which they will, they'll go to her personal profile and they'll slide right down her list, growth funnel that we've set up for her from her social media profile. Um, things like what we're doing right now, collaborations, you know, being a podcast guest. Um, how to have those authentic conversations with your ideal clients in the dms so that it does lead to list growth and business growth in some way. So, and you know, there's a whole host of things that I teach, and it all sort of goes together in this great, um, I don't know if symbiosis is the right word. I'm trying to throw out big words here. Like, I'm like, I've got some big words. Um, but it's this ecosystem that we're creating where the growth just starts to happen. Kris: ultimately she gets to work less, right? Because all of this stuff is happening on autopilot, and so it's mm-hmm. It's, um, it's the ultimate dream, \[00:21:00\] right? To stop hustling so much and stop the grind and really just allow people to find you and connect with you and get into your world. Mm-hmm. So you can help them and hopefully they can become a client, but Right. No pressure. They get to, right. They get to identify that themselves. Mm-hmm. How do you. Go ahead. Um, one of my, uh, recent students, Rita Garcia, um, she said that exact same thing to me. She, she finished my eight week program and she was like, Tracy, people are telling me they see me everywhere online now. And I'm like, that's so amazing. That's exactly what we were going for. She goes, but you know what, I'm working less. Kris: love it. Even more easy. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so great. I think as entrepreneurs. There's this idea that once I get this thing done, then I'm gonna have more free time. And then that moment never really comes. We just keep filling our plates with more stuff and this perpetual homework of social media and whatever else it is that we feel like we have to do. Kris: I'm a big believer in automating things, \[00:22:00\] so they really. Like, lighten your load. Yes. And the automations do the heavy lifting for you. So you can really, I mean, ultimately we're in business as coaches or whatever we're doing because we, we do wanna serve our clients. We don't wanna become part-time marketers. That's not why we went into business for ourself. We, we really want to, uh, we really wanna just serve our clients, so how can we do more of the thing that we really love and less of the, the obligatory marketing. Tasks. Right, right. Um, do you help your clients with their pricing? Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Tracy: Tell me, tell me about that. Pricing is a, is a sticky point, especially for, from what I've seen for women. We tend to really undervalue and underprice what we're doing. Um, and so yes, it, it, that is a conversation. I have a lot with my students in the program. And then after the program, they can move into the alumni Mastermind. So I do help with creating offers, talking about the format of the offer. \[00:23:00\] Um, and then that helps shape the price. So when somebody tells me, oh, I've got this offer and. I wanna charge, you know, $97 for it. I'm like, tell me what's in the offer. And specifically what I'm looking for is how much of you is in this offer? Is it a standalone, do it yourself course that they can buy one time and they go off and they do it by themselves, or are you offering them that Plus. A little bit of one-to-one time with you or a group coaching call or something like that. Mm-hmm. And so what the, the pricing to me depends on, um, what is the transformation the person is gonna receive. Tracy: Um, also how much time of the actual, uh, creator is involved. Mm-hmm. Because that's valuable. And is it scalable? You know, 'cause there's only so much of me to go around. I can only do so many one-to-one clients at a time. Um, and then also, what is your competition doing? Yeah, that that has to factor in as well. Kris: Yeah. Yeah. I'm finding that the hybrid model of like some prerecorded content with some group work and the possibility for a \[00:24:00\] little one-on-one guidance. Is really what people want these days. I think they do the standalone courses. Um, there's so many good ones out there, but I just, the way humans operate often, like, we'll buy a course. I know for me I'll buy a course and then I'll never actually do the course. And it's not the course's fault, but it's just kind of as humans, I think we need the accountability and we're craving. That guidance, um, yes. That custom guidance based on where we are. Exactly. And so those group programs, um, with one-on-one Voxer or however you wanna kind of nurture those relationships, I think are just so valuable and people are willing to pay for them. Kris: what would you say to a client who's, who's priced their offering? Just way too low. Tracy: Oh gosh. That's, uh, really kind of a mindset conversation, really. It's like, um, let me think. I did have this \[00:25:00\] happen with one of my alums. Um, she was gonna charge, I think it was $27 for something, and we went through the conversation of, okay, what's in the $27 thing? What's the outcome? You know, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Mm-hmm. And I was like, there's no way in heck you need to be selling that for $27. Yeah, because there was actually gonna be a little bit of a live component with, of hers, but she was just scared, right? She was like, who's gonna buy this? Um, you know, who am I to charge more? That, that's a big thing that I hear a lot. Mm-hmm. I'm having enough trouble charging for this in the first place because it's easy for me and I'm good at it, so therefore I shouldn't be charging for it, you know? Um. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a lot of that conversation that goes in. And so then, then I, I, what I, my hope is, is to sort of guide that person to their own conclusion. Kris: Right. Because if you just tell them they're gonna reject it, right. They have to really like mm-hmm. How, like how big is the problem that you're solving and how frustrating is it for the clients that \[00:26:00\] you're helping solve the problem? I'm. People will find the money for the things that they value and, and to solve the problems that they're very eager to solve. It's pretty miraculous, like how resourced we are when we really want to, and we're ready to solve a problem. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, there's, there's a lot of psychology around that. One of the things that I. Encourage clients to do. There's a lot of back and forth around should I put pricing on my page? Should I not put it on my page? And I say, if you are growing into bigger shoes, like if you're ready to step, step into bigger shoes and charge more. Mm-hmm. Put it on your website. 'cause your website is kind of like your bodyguard. Like it's gonna. It's gonna do the job that, that heavy lifting of communicating your value and the price and getting people comfortable with that. And if they, if that's like not a possibility for them, they're not gonna book a call with you. Right. So it's a, it's a soft way to kind of get comfortable with your own. Pricing. I know I've done \[00:27:00\] that for my own business. And when it's on a website or often I'll, um, on calls with potential clients, I have like a, a hidden page on my website that just ha outlines my pricing structure and what the investment is, and I'll pull that up on the call and let the page tell them. I'll share my screen. Right. And so they get to look at my infographic of what my process is, and then the, the price and the, the payment plan options. Mm-hmm. And it's all right there in front of them. So they're not just hearing it from me. It's actually a visual that they can look at it. And it also allows me to stay true to my own pricing. I mean, I've, for sure, I've, when I upleveled my offer and I. Started charging more for it is still ridiculously affordable. And I think that's part of the key. Like we want to feel like our pricing we, that we feel compensated for the work that we're doing, but also that there's \[00:28:00\] so much value packed into it that like you could charge twice as much. Yeah. Because it's, it's so value packed. Value packed. So you kind of feel like. I don't know. You're doing them a favor when they buy from you because Yeah. You're, you're delivering so beautifully. So I know, um, when I changed my pricing, I watched myself. It was really interesting. I watched myself in the discomfort of having these conversations. Yeah. And I had to do that. Maybe three or four times. And then I just settled into the new, yeah, the new price point. And, um, you know, I've been doing this work a long time, 23 years, and I, and it was just such a good reminder to me of like, of that feeling. Yes. Because like, you never really, um, it's always. Gonna be there in some way, shape, or form, as you continue to, to push your boundaries and grow as an entrepreneur and as a a human, um, you're gonna get into some uncomfortable territory. And \[00:29:00\] then it's a great reminder that after a few conversations it actually goes away. Tracy: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, I like to practice saying the, uh, amount, just walking around the house. You know, when I raised my prices, you know, let's, let's say you're raising your prices to, from like $4,000 to like $6,000 or $7,000. And at first, when you say $7,000, you're like, oh. Hold on. But if you just walk around the house going, it's $7,000. How much is it? It's $7,000. Would you like to know how much it is? It's $7,000. $7,000. And it just, you know, starts to like, right. And your brain gets on board with it. But yeah, no, I totally like, the first time I raised my prices and I went to tell somebody about it, I almost ha I had that reaction of, oh. Okay. And then I was like, okay, no, you gotta do better, Tracy. You gotta do better. Kris: Alright, so, um, tell me like, one of the things you talk about is really helping people overcome. Overwhelmed. So tell me about a time in your own business that you felt overwhelmed and what did you do to overcome that? 'cause that \[00:30:00\] is just rampant, Tracy: right? It is so rampant. Um, yes. So, no, I, let's just go back to when I was building this business alongside my full-time corporate job. Two kids that were high school and middle school played every sport that had a ball. And so there's the, there's the overwhelm of. The emotion of it is anybody, is this gonna business gonna work? Am I gonna be successful? Am I gonna be able to leave my corporate job? Is anybody gonna wanna hire me, ever? You know what I mean? Right. Um, so there's all that emotional overwhelm going on inside, and then it's the overwhelm of learning the freaking online space. Like, I don't know about you, but I, I came into this, I was a little cocky. I was like, okay, I'm highly intelligent. I have an award-winning sales career. Mm-hmm. I can figure some stuff out. Oh my gosh. I thought people were speaking another language. Kajabi funnels, lead magnets and, and forget about social media. I had, I didn't really know a whole bunch about the platform and the algorithm and how it worked and what it liked and what it didn't like. Oh my gosh. I felt like I \[00:31:00\] was, there was a time I didn't know how to use Canva. I have no clue how to use Canva. Mm-hmm. And so, so I remember very distinctly having all of that coursing through my body. 'cause tech is not my love language. So learning Canva, ugh. Okay. Learning Kajabi, uh, God, that was a massive learning curve. I just wanted to help people build their businesses. Right. I didn't, I had the overwhelm with all the other stuff, so what I had to do. First of all was calm down, realize that it's all gonna be okay. And remind myself, you are highly intelligent. You Dan, you can figure things out. You have figured things out in the past, it's going to be okay. And then I had to, I had to be really honest with myself because part of my overwhelm was being in a race to get this thing built so I could get outta corporate. Tracy: And it wasn't until I was about six months in to the race. That I realized there's really no finish line with an online business. I'm not building a McDonald's franchise that you can just build, hire the people, put the cash registers in and stand back and \[00:32:00\] go, that's beautiful. I'm gonna go build another one. It's not done. I. It's evolving and you're changing offers and you're changing your marketing messaging and there's always something to, to do. Mm-hmm. So once I kind of had, I was like, oh wow, this is really different. Um, I had to, I had to be really honest about the time that I had each week because I promised my husband this would not take over our lives. He was on board with it as long as, um, it, our retirement didn't get derailed that we had worked so hard to stay on track for. And you know, that, that the kids in, he did not feel like mom's working all the time. Mm-hmm. So the, so what settles what helps me when I start to feel overwhelmed is to make a list. What has to be done? Does, does this thing have to be done for me to be successful? Does it have to be done by me? Like, you know, I'm, I'm a super fan of hiring, uh, for a few hours of, uh, help a week before you can really afford it because it takes so much, um, it gives you so much energy back and, um, and space. Um, you know, so \[00:33:00\] does it have to be done for success? Does it have to be done by me? Does it have to be done right now? You know, and then, um, realizing that. I just needed do to do the next right thing and make the next right decision and not try to, uh, somebody said the other day, and it reminded me of this beautiful analogy of if you're trying to go up a staircase and you're looking way too far at the top, you're gonna trip on your way up. Tracy: So that I just had to calm myself down and be like, okay, Tracy Beavers, what would you say to one of your clients, you know. How would you help them? And then just really prioritize, realize that I couldn't do everything and I couldn't run as fast as the people I had around me. In some of the programs I was in, there were people that were doing this for a full-time job and they were doing their launches and they were making $20,000 and they were doing this and that. And I was just like, oh my God, when, you know, am I ever gonna get there? But comparing myself to them was not helpful at all. Kris: I know, right? Uh, just a recipe for, for anxiety, honestly. Yeah. I, I really \[00:34:00\] love writing things down. I've, I do less of it now because now I, if I, if I know it needs to get done, I'll put it in my calendar. And if I can't do it in the day I've put it in my calendar, I'll move it to another day. No big deal. I used to give myself grief if I moved something to another day, but then I realized like, no, this is my calendar and it's here to serve me and my life. And so the important things make it to my calendar. But so often I think as moms, I mean. There's so much to navigate with, like you said, sports and school and summer and whatever it is, all the mom stuff, all the, all the work related stuff. I think it's so therapeutic to get it out of your head and onto paper and Yes, what I would do, I did this for a very long time and I'm not like done with doing this. I just, um, if I get overwhelmed, this is what I do. Mm-hmm. I get an eight and a half by 11. Printed piece of printer printer paper. Mm-hmm. I fold it in half and \[00:35:00\] well, first off, I get a piece of paper and I write everything down that I need to do. Yes, you're right. Right. Just get it outta my head and onto paper. And then I get a new, fresh, fresh piece of paper. I fold it in half and I write like this week. Yes. And then later on the other half, and then I dev, then I like recopy everything that I brain dumped. Yeah. Into those two categories. And then on the this week thing, I circle the things that have to happen in the next, today or tomorrow. Right? Yeah. Like I love that. And then it just narrows it down. And then I end up with three things that I know I've gotta focus on. And it's. It, it's really helpful. So thank I love that you for sharing that. Yeah, you Tracy: bet. I love that you put things in a parking lot for later. Kris: Yeah. I love a parking lot later and I, I like that it's not even next week, just later. Tracy: Yeah. Because some of those things I've ended up putting in the, the later or the parking lot. I've gone back and looked at a few weeks LA a few weeks later when it's later. Yeah. And I'm like. Well, that was a dumb idea. I'm so glad I did. Kris: Not important. Thought it was urgent. That one. Yeah. \[00:36:00\] Not important. Tracy: cause everything feels urgent when you're in that. Overwhelmed spiral. It's just, ugh. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that A fresh piece of paper makes me happy too. Kris: It really does. And that like, printer paper, uh oh. I just, oh, it feels so good. It's gotta be like, it can't be too thin, right? Um, yeah. Yeah. So tell me, as we wrap up today, what would you tell your corporate self now looking back? Tracy: Holy cow. Um, you're gonna make it, it's gonna be okay. Um, yeah, it's gonna feel messy and it's gonna be messy, but, but you're gonna get there. Yeah. Kris: That's beautiful. Okay, so tell my listeners, where can we find you? Do you have anything that Tracy: you wanna share with us? Sure. Well, I'm excited to have you on my podcast. I think we're doing that in the next few weeks. Yeah. Um, if I recall, my podcast is called Create Online Business Success, and I assume your listeners love podcasts. Otherwise, they wouldn't be listening to us right now. So I'd love for them to check \[00:37:00\] mine out. Also, if they are, um, on Facebook and they love a great Facebook group, mine is called Be a Confident Entrepreneur. Get visible, grow your email list and your income. It is a really special community of people that truly care about each other, that wanna help each other. You can promote your offers when you need to, um, which, you know, I was afraid to do that in the beginning, but it's the people that I attract into the community are like you and I, and they're not gonna take advantage of that. Um, but they are there to help each other, so it's been really fun. Tracy: that's beautiful. Okay, so the Facebook group name is what again? It's called Be a Confident Entrepreneur. Okay. And then it's like get visible, grow your list and your income, but just look for an entrepreneur and if they just wanna look me up on Facebook, I'm Tracy Lane Beavers, and they'll see it on my personal profile. Kris: so much. Everybody go join that Facebook group. I'm gonna join it myself, and I will see you in there. Thank you again for your time today, Tracy. It's been, thank you for having such a delight. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging \[00:38:00\] call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/replace-all-your-marketing-with-one-story-in-just-7-minutes-with-robin-emdon-and-kris-jones ### Title: Replace All Your Marketing with One Story in Just 7 Minutes with Robin Emdon and Kris Jones ### Page ID: 7583975 ### Content: ## Replace All Your Marketing with One Story in Just 7 Minutes ## GoalBusters Podcast with Robin Emdon Replace All Your Marketing with One Story in Just 7 Minutes with Robin Emdon and Kris Jones **Ever feel like you're stumbling over your words when someone asks what you do? ?** Even though you're brilliant at helping your clients, something weird happens when you try to explain your own work. You know exactly how to solve their problems, but putting it into words feels... HARD. I just talked about this on the GoalBusters podcast with Robin Emdon, and I shared something that might surprise you. I call it "Trying to read the label when you're INSIDE the bottle". When this is the case, you literally cannot see the label that everyone else can read perfectly from the outside. The same thing happens with your business. You're too close to see what makes you unique, valuable, and BRILLIANT. ? The lens shift that transforms how you talk about your business ⏰ My simple productivity hack that filters out busy work ? Why your website should be the "sun" of your marketing universe The best part? Robin asked me what I wish more business owners knew, and my answer might change how you think about marketing forever. If you've been "noodling" with your website for months (or years!) but still cringe when sending people there, this episode is for you. Welcome to the Goalbusters Expert Peak Productivity Tips podcast, where top business experts get just seven minutes to answer five rapid fire questions about what they do and how they stay productive. Each episode is packed with actionable insights to help boost your efficiency and achieve your goals. Let's dive in and unlock the secrets to peak performance. Well, hello everyone. My name is Robin J. Emdon and I'm an accountability coach and the author of Get Resultsology® - The Science of Getting Stuff Done! I work with people who run their own business, no boss, distractions everywhere and never enough hours in the day. Together we cut through the noise, sharpen their focus and follow through on the big ideas that actually move the needle. That's what I call the momentum formula. So if that's the kind of breakthrough that you are looking for, then you're in exactly the right place. And speaking of being in exactly the right place, I am delighted to welcome our guest expert today, Kris Jones. Kris was hand selected as a mentee by story brands Donald Miller. Kris has cracked the code on turning expertise into sales. After twenty years of crafting stories for giants like Nike and Adidas, she discovered something shocking. A single well told story can replace all your marketing and double your revenue. Today, Kris helps coaches and consultants scale from 30K to 300K months using her signature storytelling system, proving that you don't need endless content or complicated funnels to attract premium clients. Just one story told well.  Thank you. What a great intro, Robin. I really appreciate it, and I'm happy to be here. I'm very happy you're here too. I'm excited about listening to your story. I am in Portland, Oregon on the West Coast of the US. Oh, wow. So it's, it's AM for you, and it's late PM or getting on for late PM for me too. And so that's a great eyes, and I love the power of the Internet. And I'm waffling on. Shall we do the questions instead? And there it goes. Kris, could you tell me, please, who is your ideal client? So what exactly is the problem or problems that you solve?  Well, the challenge that they're having is that they're really good at what they do, but the way they show up online, whether it be their website or social media, doesn't align with their level of expertise. So they might cringe when sending somebody to their website or somebody would ask them what they do, and they stumble and stammer. And they don't really just have the words to communicate exactly what it is they do… even though they know it through and through, and they're really smart and they're experts. But when you're when you're so close to your own business, it's really hard to talk about what you do. I call this being inside the bottle, trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. So I come in. I read your label. I write your story for you, and then we integrate it into everywhere you show up online and in person. Fantastic. I completely agree. That is a major, major challenge that people struggle to overcome. Alright. So on that note, what is one valuable free action that the audience can implement that will help them move towards solving that problem? I think the most important thing you can do as a business owner is to shift the lens in which you look at your business. So most coaches and consultants paint themselves client comes to your website or they encounter you anywhere online, they're looking for a guide. They're looking for Yoda. They're looking for Mister Miyagi. They are not looking for a hero. What we wanna do is in our messaging and the way we talk about our business, we wanna always position the client as the hero of your story and position yourself as the guide that invites them into a narrative with you where they can really envision working with you and envision what their life is gonna look like after, like, after working with you. With my coaching background, we call that entering the client's model of the world and not in not even thinking about trying to impose your model of the world onto them because clearly, but, you know, it's a different  Oh, yeah. It's copyright. You can't have it. No. I'm joking. Alright. So that's brilliant. Thank you. Now that we have a better understanding of what you do, let's dive briefly into GoalBusting focusing on how to maximize productive time to achieve business goals. So, Kris, could you share any tips or advice for someone looking to improve their productivity habits, please? Yeah. I mean, the thing that really shifted my productivity was calendaring, like, really mapping out what am I gonna do in each and every day and having every hour accounted for And then filtering that through with what are the activities that are going to directly be making me money. And do those, make those the top priority. I think so often we can get bogged down with busy work, which is subconsciously maybe procrastinating around the bigger things that we need to do that we know will move the needle for our business. So filtering everything around what activity is this activity going to be making me money?  And then the other thing that I would highly recommend is to get a VA or somebody who can support you even if it's five hours a week, somebody that you can offload the those busy work type of tasks to. Yeah. Completely, 100% agree on both counts. In fact, I was only talking to a VA manager earlier today, and we were talking about just how critical that step is. And the other point you make about being busy, I mean, I make the point in my book, you know, you can be busy tidying your garage. But what does that unless you're in the tidying garage business, what does that got to do with your business? And in a more practical sense, maybe you're gonna be busy today, you know, building pages for your website. What does that got to do with selling? You know? Right. Get someone else to build the website. Alright. Okay. I digress. And that's about me. Enough about me. This is meant to be about you. Speaking of which, what should I have asked you today, Kris, that I didn't and your answer, please? I think the main thing I want to open up your listeners' minds and eyes around is really that your website is the sun in your marketing universe. Right? It's the central circle in your marketing universe, and everything you do should always point back to your website. Your website should be your top sales employee. You should be able to send people there with confidence knowing that it's gonna sell for you. And there are lots of planets that circle around the sun, and each planet is a marketing activity. So it might be email marketing. It might be podcast guesting. It could be a networking event. It could be, Facebook ads. Pick two planets. You do not have to be everywhere doing everything. Pick two planets, and pick two that that are fun for you that you genuinely enjoy. My two planets are email. I keep in really good touch with my email list and podcast guesting. Those are my two planets because they're fun. They're life giving. I would do them if they even if they weren't getting me results. And then when I'm on those planets, the one thing I do is point people back to my website with confidence knowing it's gonna do the selling for me. Yeah. Brilliant. I've had a quick look at your website today before coming into you. It's a brilliant website. I highly recommend it. And, yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. You know, there's me saying, oh, you know, don't spend the day building your website. But, you know, once it's built, you know, it you do have to get out there, and you've highlighted that for emailing, podcasting, whatever your thing is, whatever it is. Yeah. I mean, I think you bring up a really good point, though, because I think as business owners, we can noodle with the website so much that it kinda waters down the effectiveness. Like, it's important that your website is effective, and working on it, noodling with it is not going to necessarily make that more effective. Like, often, we can use our websites for procrastination, throwing spaghetti at the wall, tweaking, tweaking, tweaking, trying to crack the code on. Is this gonna work? Is this gonna work? And I think, you know, it can become a real distraction. And so I would I would just say, find someone that knows how to create an effective website for you and tell your story in a powerful way. Like, offload that, take that off your plate, and focus on helping your clients and doing the work that you love. Absolutely. And beautifully segues into me asking the question, talking about finding someone that can help you tell your story in a powerful way. Thank you very much. How can people find you, Kris? And, also, is there, like, a valuable free resource they can get from you? Because I always say it's a bit of a cheeky question, but, actually, it's a very serious question. It's a really good way of people getting an even bigger taste of exactly what you do and how it works. The best way to find me is go visit the sun of my marketing universe, which is my website. Go to reddoorstories.com. Everything about me, you can find there. If you click on the blue button in the upper right hand corner, you can book a money making messaging call with me. We'll look at your website together. We'll tune up your story together. So I really invite your listeners to do that.  I do have a free resource that is called how to write compelling copy that sells in five minutes flat. I talked earlier about really shifting the lens, which you talk about your business, positioning yourself as the guide, positioning your clients as the hero. That free resource is going to help you do that. It will cost you nothing. It will take you five to ten minutes, and you'll never talk about your business the same way again. Immediately after I hang up from this, you can bet my name will pop up on your email list because I'm gonna do that straight away. That sounds awesome. Thank you so much, Kris. That's a generous, valuable, free resource. And more to the point, I can see just from what you've told us today, hugely valuable and important. Thank you, Robin. I've really enjoyed my time with you. I enjoyed listening to you too, and thank you so much for doing this today. So that's it for today. Please remember everybody, keep GoalBusting and make your future self proud. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/website-copy-secrets-confident-woman-podcast-rachel-brooks ### Title: The 2.5-Hour Website Copy Formula That Converts Visitors to Clients with Rachel Brooks ### Page ID: 7619111 ### Content: The 2.5-Hour Website Copy Formula That Converts Visitors to Clients with Rachel Brooks Ever sit down to write your website copy and feel completely stuck? ? You stare at that blank screen... type a few words... delete them... try again... and wonder why something that should be "simple" feels so incredibly hard. I had the most honest conversation with Rachel Brooks on The Confident Woman Podcast about this exact struggle, and I had to share it with you because you're not broken—you're just too close to see clearly. ? The "bottle effect" - You're inside the bottle trying to read the label (impossible!) ? The curse of knowledge - You've forgotten what it's like to NOT know what you know ? The hero trap - You're making yourself the star instead of your client In this episode, I reveal my 3-step story formula that works for every piece of marketing you create. It's the same pattern in every movie you've ever loved, and it transforms how your ideal clients see you. The best part? When you get this right, your website becomes your best salesperson—working 24/7 while you focus on what you actually love doing. The 2.5-Hour Website Copy Formula That Converts Visitors to Clients with Rachel Brooks CTC Ep. 40 | The 2.5-Hour Website Copy Formula That Converts Visitors to Clients with Rachel Brooks \[00:00:00\] I had such a great conversation with Rachel Brooks on the Confident Woman podcast, and it was so good. I wanted to share it here with you today Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Rachel: Welcome back. Today we have with us Chris Jones. Chris is a StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Designs, mentored by StoryBrand founder Donald Miller himself, and with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike under her belt, she's extremely passionate about helping self-employed women get website copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best. Kris: I'm really, really looking forward to chatting with you. Yeah, so essentially I, I lived in Portland, Oregon and I have been doing this work and marketing for 20 years now, which is kind of nerd to even think about, but I'm very passionate about it because I am incredibly inspired by creating freedom. I love the free down, that being self employed has created for my own life and I want that for others who are interested in kind of dipping their toe in to entrepreneurship or, you know, being self-employed. I just think it's a beautiful dress and I love to support people in that journey. When I, when I started working around 20 years ago. I really focused on brand and branding and, and that eventually evolved into website design, and \[00:02:00\] that was really my self focus. But through the years, I recognized that branding and design don't work unless your messaging works. And so I, I really, uh, went on a mission to craft, to code between what makes a, a story, what makes. Website copy work. How do you talk about your own business in a way that gets other people really excited to work with you? And what happened was I, you know, I eventually became a Story Brander certified guide. And prior to that though, I would have plans come to me wanting me to build them a website, and they were just. Pull their hair out, trying to write their own copy. Like it was truly torture. And it would, it would disrupt the timeline of the project. It would pass so much grace and Gene, and I'm just over it and like, I'm \[00:03:00\] not willing to let my experience juggle like this anymore, so let's figure it out and through, you know, learning about the book, building a StoryBrand, and also just studying really, really deep into everything. Around how to tell a good story. I involved my business into really focusing on not only helping entrepreneurs craft a clear message, but to create a message that's really aligned with who they are and to do it, to be able to do it in 2.5 hours flat. And this process doesn't leave anybody. To do it on their own, which I think is the hardest part. We're just so close to our own selves and our own business. It's just really hard to talk about yourself. We're just too, too close to it. Rachel: Yeah, I was just going to say that too, and I was just thinking, you know, I, I actually just did a full re relaunch on my website and I, I had to encounter that it was, you know, start \[00:04:00\] writing about yourself and you're like, how do you sum it up in like the three. Spaces that are available, you know, 'cause a website is so limited and you know, just, it's kind of funny that you had just mentioned, 'cause I literally just walked through this in the past couple weeks and you know, I think it's so important to really take that step back as, as you were saying, like kind of, you know, how do we get to that point where we can kind see, disconnect the personal from the professional side so you can see it from a different vantage point. And I. I know that with StoryBrand that's what they do. Like, it's the work that's really extracting that story that's inside of you, right? And, and your message or personal experience or like what it is and how it tailors to that product or service that you offer. And so I'm, I'm curious to know like how to write, you know, compelling copy that sells in two and a half hours. Flat. Tell me more about that. Because like, I was about to run, to rip my hair. Is randoms. Kris: Nothing worse than just staring at a blink screen \[00:05:00\] going, ah, what? I can't find the the right words. Exactly. I wanna start by just sharing and letting your audience have the hook around she hard it is to write for yourself and why that is. So this is something I call a bottle effect and essentially when we are, are in business, we are. It's like we're inside of a bottle trying to, to read a label that can only be read from the outside of the bottle. So I think a lot of us are like, well, if I just persevere, I keep trying or I push my way through and it's like, it's not, it's, it's impo, it's feels impossible because it's per, it's impossible to put yourself outside of the bottle. And it's very hard to read that label clearly from inside of the bottle. So. That's really the first thing that we all deal with as business owners. And then the second one is the curse of knowledge. So if you've been in your \[00:06:00\] industry for any amount of years, you are an expert at it and you've really forgotten what it's like to not know what you know. And so you start communicating with people in a way that they, as if they understand kind of the nuance because of your industry and your. Some are new to you, doesn't know that yet. And so it's really hard to write in a way that's the full and zero. And these two things are both going on at the same time, which is why we wanna pull our hair out when we write our own copy. And so. Story brand's amazing. I highly recommend everybody gets the ic, everybody should read it. It, you know, you really wanting to delve deep into story and what creates a story. But reading the book doesn't really solve that prolonging of being inside the bottle and medium somebody to be outside the, and the the \[00:07:00\] struggle that I should have observed over many, many, many years is that. Number one, people try and write their own copy and it's just tortured. And then number two, they muster up enough money and sometimes a lot of money. Sometimes it's like $10,000 for a web, a web page, and they hire a copywriter to write it for them. And that copywriter goes last and writes in their play, they're doing their best job, but their voice is not your voice. So when you get the copy back, it just feels ops, you know, it just doesn't feel like your voice. It just, it doesn't integrate with the nuances of your, your industry. And so it, when you already don't have enough time, cre, it ends up taking more time than if you were to write it yourself because back and forth. And the revisions. And the revisions and so it's just a giant trickle that we all existed when we're trying to create our website. \[00:08:00\] And really the way out of, of that situation is through collaborative copywriting. And that is the offer. That's pretty much the main offer that I do with my friends. And it, it happens in two hours, two and a half hours slack because I know how to ask the right questions that are gonna extract the right information out, and then we really do it collaboratively. So then you're not. You know, you know every step of the way that it's really a word with your voice, and yet you've got an expert with you by your side, um, to make sure that the strategy is there and to help you, um, to help kind of get rid of all the noise and keep only what's essential for your story. Rachel: Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's so helpful, what you just said, you know, having that collaborative effort. And for, for personal experience and being on both sides, it's like, you know, you \[00:09:00\] can, I'm in that bottle and I'm also trying to write it, which I know is a big, you know, big old mass. And then also taking that time intentionally step out. And even if it's not as personally close to me, but yet it's an extension off of me or, you know, something that's still related or associated with h. We still don't have that clarity that it would be if, if you had somebody who is skilled in that department to really extract that, as you said. And then on the other side of the coin is kind of that, that aspect where if you shared with, you know, whoever's writing your copy along the lines of what you're looking for, sometimes they take that as a matter of fact, here it is, those were the five points, and, and sometimes they don't really polish it. So like you said, it, it feels, it feels off like it's missed the mark. Because you want somebody that, that understands those topics to a degree that they can enhance upon. And so here's, you know, so and so does these five things and it's just, you know, where's the kind of meat and potatoes aspect of it? And sometimes, you \[00:10:00\] know, if you're too close to it, you get the meat, potatoes, the side dishes, the dessert, and the Togo boxes, right? A little bit, you know, and you're like, oh, I just came for the, for the meat and potatoes. But you know, from, from personal experience, I could, I'm, I'm kind of on both sides of those fences so I can really resonate a lot of the pain points that you had just talked about. And also just when you tell me like that two and a half hours flat, the pain point to me is like, whoa, how is this possible? So I'm curious to know, like, what do you think is that most important thing that comes to creating copy around the story brand? So like, how is that possible? Essentially, I'll start by sharing tremendous fundamentals and every story you've ever read, every movie you've ever watched, they all have essentially the same recipe. And we use that same formula in our website, and I'll kind of, I'll talk through that next. But \[00:11:00\] the formula, or creating a really compelling story is a hero has a problem. So number one, a hero has a problem. Number two, a hero meets a guide with a solution. And number three, the hero signs. So I'm gonna repeat it one more time just so you kind of get it into your memory. Number one, a hero has a problem and the key to remember here is that you're not the hero. Your client is the hero. And then that hero meets a guide with the solution. You are the guide business owner. Then number three, the here on learning success. So as the guide, we really help them envision what success looks like and remind them that you know the way and what's possible for you after you solve this problem. And I feel like that what you just said, the formula is applicable, and if anyone's watched movies or read books, \[00:12:00\] that makes total sense. It's like they, you just clicked it all together. And, and you being the owner of your brand, how different than would your brand be in those case scenarios? So now it's like the, the books to the movies, to the business. Kris: and the thing that, that I see out there, just 99% of the time, most people get this wrong. And it's just purely because. It's unintentional, right? Everybody is doing their best and they're trying to write copies of their own website and they're thinking, the heck do I talk about? Guess I should talk about me 'cause this is my website. And what I wanna share with you today is to kind of think about that differently. So what we really wanna do is instead of telling our story. We wanna invite our explorer into a narrative with us where they're the hero of the story and we are the guide in the story. And, and if you watch \[00:13:00\] any movie, you'll see that that hero, the movie begins with the hero, with the problem, the guide that doesn't even enter into the story and tell that 20 minute into the movie, or maybe 50 pages into the book. So this is kind of a load off for a lot of business owners to recognize that like, oh, this isn't all about me. If I really hone in on my hero's problems, so my clients' problems, then they're gonna seal, see, they're gonna seal herd, they're gonna feel connected with me. And the more we articulate their problem and the symbol that they're going through. That immediately they think that we are the best ones to solve it. So we all of a sudden we start building trust and connection, and we haven't even talked about ourselves yet. We've only talked about the hero and their problem. And \[00:14:00\] so it's just that it's such a relief when this, when you really implement this formula, it just becomes so much easier to write and it becomes so much more joyous to write too. Rachel: and like you said, it lets you off the hook and it's like, how many times do we sit down, not even just a website copy, but like our social media posts or, or just an email or something like that. We sometimes might overthink it or, or under deliver because we're not putting ourselves in this, this, you know, step by step kind of guidance to get that. Individual to recognize that whether it's you, that's the solution, or the product or the service, or maybe a collaboration, whoever that is you, you wanna position yourself as I have the answer to your struggles or problems or pain points, whatever that may be. And then using that, those conversations or the verbiage in your copy to translate that in, in hopes that that individual is like. This is the answer that I've been looking \[00:15:00\] for and I need to buy or hire or, you know, talk or whatever that, that call to action or that transaction happens to be is putting yourself in that, the situation of that individual. So, right. Kris: Yeah, I think you're, you make a really, really good point. You know, I do this mostly for people on their websites, but. Does formula applies to literally every piece of copy you write, every email you put out there, every social media post you create, every chle that you still learn on your social media are leaked in. It just, it works for everything and that's why it's so incredibly powerful. And the other thing it does, it just does the work for you in selling, right? You don't have to. Felt so hard because you're using the words and allowing them to do the work for you. Rachel: Yeah, it's very much so, and it's like if you just kind of hit the nail in the head with your \[00:16:00\] messaging, then it delivers. I love that. And so I guess, you know, kind of going back a little bit to where you were saying. The being in the bottle trying to read the label a little bit too close. And, and correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I've, I've either experienced it or have witnesses and some of the ladies that I've worked with as well. It's like, you know, when you ask them, well what is the problem you're trying to solve? Sometimes it's even hard to sum that up into like one thing, right? Because we look at it from like that perspective. There's one thing that triggers this thing, but it ties in with that thing and it's gonna fall, you know? So like all these things kind of feel connected. Do you help kind of extract that also so that, that it's very crystal clear on that message that's tailored to the campaigns or the, the marketing plan to launch that product or service or whatever that is? Kris: Absolutely. That is part of the prospect. I mean, when we are, when we try and do this work alone, \[00:17:00\] we stumble around, we assisting guests ourselves, me. And we write, we type, we delete, we, we delete. And what what I do is help guide you and really do the heavy lifting for you. So I, you might write down three things or might share with me three things we say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Third one. That's, that's the one. And what, what we really wanna remember too is that we wanna meet your client where they are. So. As experts, we know what, we know, what their fundamental like problems are, and sometimes they're different than what our clinic comes to us with. So you know, Sally might come to you and say, this is my problem, and you'll say, okay, I get it. I hear you. But you know, really. Her deeper problem is that she doesn't have a marketing plan or whatever it is. So we don't wanna mudding the \[00:18:00\] waters. We just wanna say, you know, in their words, in their words, watering the problems and you get on the song with them that they share with you and, and that kind of tropes that answer. Rachel: Yeah, I love that. And it's so true. 'cause I, I mean, I've kind of been on both sides and I was like, ah, okay, so that's, yes. So even just on the conversing side, like you had said, when, when our clients come to us and they're like, okay, but this is X, Y, and Z. And you're like, okay. But, and so it's kind of funny to, to see yourself like step back from that perspective. 'cause when we're too close to, to our own work, it gets all muddy, like you said, and, and. I always like to, you know, the works that you do. I like to say it's kinda like we, you know, it's Monet, it's like a, our, our, our, our craft, right? So up close it's, it's a big old mess, but we have to take that step back to see the beautiful creations that we just, you know, put together. And sometimes world War two close to it, that one little stipple or the one little brush stroke can really change the entirety of that piece that you are \[00:19:00\] working on. So kind of knowing when to push the gas and, and pull back and, you know, push on the brake is so helpful and I love that you really take that, as you said, the heavy, heavy lifting and helping your clients to really refine and define and know when to push and pull back. So that's incredible. And so you have that formula, you know, with the. Recognizing, you know, the story brand part of it, and then coming out as that step by step guide. So what would you say, you know, for website copy, what are some of the must haves for websites? Like, I know we wanna put everything on, right? And sometimes, listen, we didn't come here, read about your entire life. What are some of the must have? 'cause we always feel like, you know, but it's so important. But what are those sections that you would suggest that every female expert or small business owner should have? Kris: Well, you really need to be able to clearly communicate what you do. So, you know, if I were an accountant, I'm an accountant \[00:20:00\] for people in Portland, Oregon, like you, you don't want to have to make people work to find out what you do. So that's kind of the first say you want to on the see, you want to help them answer the question, what does this person do and how is it gonna make my race better? So once you got that out of the way, then I would immediately go into the pro, what I call the problem section. So articulating in that problem come up with three bullets that really articulate the problem. So, you know, for my clients be, you know, you, you step because you're not sure what to say when you open up a document or a social media post. You don't have time to write this copy yourselves. And when you hire a copywriter. Not only is it expensive, but it doesn't really feel aligned with your voice. So I would just really like get into the hands and the hearts of your clients and articulate, you know, \[00:21:00\] three-ish problems that they're struggling with. And then one of the most important things you can do on your website is really show them what is, what success looks like. So this was really step three in the formula. So you really wanna show them. And it's interesting you just heard people, um, also struggle with, because they tend to talk about the features. Like, here's the benefits of working with me. And again, I just wanna remind you to like get out of the hero role and be the guide. A guide that doesn't come in. Try and be flashy with features. A guide says, here's where I can take you and here's what's possible for you. So for my clients, I'm just, you know, using this as an example because they know it, you know, through and through. So for my clients, it's not really, it's not really about the copy, it's about what \[00:22:00\] can happen in their life once they have copy that's completely derailed. So all kinds of things happen. I mean, the most immediate one is just you start to make more money because people immediately wanna work with you. If you're clear, you're not wasting their time. You're confident. They, they understand how you're gonna benefit their lives. So, first time put third copy, you're gonna make more money. Definitely you're gonna show up with more confidence because you know, you, you not only have a website that's working for you 24 7, but. You speak about your, your business differently. Once you have those words, you can more confidently communicate what you do. And then the third thing that happens is you just get more freedom. You don't waste your time on sales calls and trying to explain yourself over and over again because you've got tools that are doing view listing for you. So you've got more time and more \[00:23:00\] freedom, more flexibility. And I mean, who doesn't want that? So. That's just an example and like me showing you as the guide me showing you what's possible for you. And I would want you to do that same thing for your clients. Show them what's possible, like to keeping things. I'm, if I'm a bookkeeper, what's possible for this person because their books are completely dialed in if their taxes are, um, nailed like ahead of schedule. What happens for those people? They don't have to stress about it. They're not assembling around trying to figure out their receipts. They're more, maybe they're more confident with their finances. Maybe they have the time to think about what they wanna invest in now that they've got their finances in order. So I would just encourage you guys to look at the peak of the mountain. What is it, the peak of the mountain, and ultimately, what are they gonna get after engaging with you? \[00:24:00\] Rachel: And I, and I love that you had just mentioned that too. And I think when we, we look at sales pages or any of the copies, sometimes we, we read about all the, the things that you can get if you buy the product or services, like all the bells and the whistles and, and it's, you know, flashy and sounds all well and good 'cause you wanna know like, oh, but if I invest X, Y, and z I'm going to get these bonuses. And those are pretty cool. But yet tho the bells and the whistles aren't going to sell because. You're just slapping some band-aids on the problems, right? So you could, you know, sign off on a, a cast and make it all pretty and stuff, but underneath you're still got, you know, the issues at hand. And, and so very, very great point there. Is that how you had said it's about guiding them through the processes so that you are presenting it in a way that they've already, as a reading through your copy, they're already imagining them walking through the solutions, the steps. \[00:25:00\] Then at the end, it is exactly that. A bonus, like, oh, and I get these things. How cool is this? I end up right now, take my credit card. Right? But if they, I don't really know, but, oh, well if they got these bonuses, I mean, that's cool, but I don't know if it's worth my credit card. And so at that point, there's that disconnect and that customer or you know, potential lead would opt out and move on to the next individual that might be suitable for getting them to that next step. And I assume that you probably see that quite often, especially if somebody's. Too close in the work as, as we call it here, that they don't really see how they're able to navigate through the, the customer's journey if they don't see that with clarity. Kris: Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Yeah, that's so true. And you bring up a good point about the bones list too, because it's not like you shouldn't, shouldn't have those things. There is a time and a place for them you really want to earn. Trust and establish a connection and also establish your role as society and their role as the hero \[00:26:00\] and help them really understand how you can make their lives better and how you can help them avoid failure, quite frankly. And once you've done all them right, once you've kind of fast in the story, then of course like people do want to dive in a little bit deeper to dot the i's and press the T's on. You know, some fun bonus you're gonna offer or whatever. Maybe some, some details about the program or the course, but that's really secondary to the overarching, Rachel: right. And then, you know, on, on the other side, you know, going that StoryBrand route versus the individual who tries to DIY it and you know, like, okay, I'm just gonna piecemeal this together and do it myself. So what do you think are, are some of those pitfalls that somebody who is DIYing it versus somebody who hires out an expert? What is, you know, what are the pitfalls? What are the, obviously from having to redo it \[00:27:00\] again or something like, you know, cost effectiveness. What do you, when do you think it's time to hire a professional copywriter to capture your, your brand story versus keep going to bat and try to get it right? Kris: Yeah, I love that question because. Depending on where you are in your journey, the could vary. But the reality is there are so many incredible web We slate builders there. I mean, that's, no, that's no mystery, right? We've got quote phase and, and all the things you think Ajay, like, they're all very intuitive and easy to build on, and they have these templates that are kind of predesigned for you. And so in many ways. They're, they're pretty slow proof. So, and this is something that, that I would say, okay, so if you're going to DIY, it build your own website, but save up the money to collaborate with a writer \[00:28:00\] who knows what they're doing, whether it's me or somebody else. Like you cannot get outside in that bottle without Trump from somebody else. And that might be. A brand or a neighbor or you know, a, a family member. But what you really want is somebody who's familiar with their architecture and storytelling and somebody who can ask you the right questions. And so I, I really think that if you don't wanna send any money at all, buy the book. Or if you only wanna spend $15, let's just buy the book. Building a Story brand. And, and then go to clarity with chris.com. And I have a freebie there. It's, uh, how to write controlling copy in five minutes. Last it plus signs ish minute video. And I walk you through kind of how to craft your story and then \[00:29:00\] I give you an opportunity at the end to schedule a free call with me to get feedback. So. That's really kind of the, the most affordable way to get familiar with copy. And then if you're, if you're ready to invest, I mean, the work that I do, it's only, it's 29 97, so it's 2,997. It's ridiculously affordable for what you get. And essentially that offer is all about you and me collaborating together to craft your. Website copy. So it is just working for you. Like your top snails look like 24 7. And that's for people who are just like, they're busy. They just made it done in 2.5 hours flat, and they, they want it done right. But they also really want it to be aligned and resonate with their own voice. And, and so you kind of hit the. Hit the, the different stages \[00:30:00\] that, you know, some of, some of us women are in it, whether we're just getting started and we're, we can only afford to DIY it and having some of those tools and, and kind of tip suit to get to that point. And it's not saying, you know, you can't write your own coffee is event. Eventually as you grow your business, you're going to grow your budget, which then would you want to uplevel that? And so there's different stages in. And you probably don't necessarily recommend, I mean, somebody from who's coming on board as a complete and newbie startup, just going all in and, and hiring out a copywriter. 'cause then technically you haven't even had that experience yet in your business. Then to, to really articulate it, I guess and, and to deliberate, and I could be wrong there. I'm just, uh, kinda speaking a little bit from experience and, and also from, again, what I'm hearing from some of our ladies is that. Do I have to go all in? I'm, I'm just starting out. I don't have that budget. Can I do these things on my, on my own? And the answer is yes, absolutely. And as you grow, you'll realize that you have outgrown your own voice and \[00:31:00\] your own copy and your own criteria or your own limits, and more important, your own time. That's kind of where you might be on the fence saying, Hey listen, I really wanna uplevel and if I wanna uplevel and grow, I have to uplevel my copy, my website, my offers, my my products and services. And that's where, you know, you can bring on somebody like Chris and, and or, or before Chris read the book and understand how that kind of goes. And so there's different stages and I love that you walk that, walk our listeners through that because you know you're, anyone who's listening can. But I'm not there. Or, oh, I'm there. So what's next? And I, and I think it's all important to kind of touch upon that because you don't have to be ready and you don't have to have everything all figured out, but just getting started is the number one thing that you can do today. And so, like you said, with your, with your offer firm, you can't go wrong. Like go there and fill it out and you know, discovery call with you. And I mean, could she make it any \[00:32:00\] more easier? Like seriously. So I just, this has been incredible. I mean, you fill out the form, you do all the stuff, and you follow up with you, and then that's where you get that connection call and it, having Chris's feedback, I mean, I see so much value right there. Kris: Yeah. And I just wanna echo your point that you just shared, which was the, the way I heard it was you, there's nothing more valuable than just doing the work. It starts the work that you're doing so you can learn about your clients, you can learn about the type of people you like working with, and you can learn about the type of work you love doing. So I guarantee you, you know, if you are just study literally today that. You might write some copy that still is true for you, and then in a year from now you'll revisit it and you'll be like, oh yeah, look, I didn't, I learned so much, like, you know, six months in or eight months in, \[00:33:00\] and now I am clearer on the people I wanna work with, and I'm clearer on the, the hurdles that they're wanting to overcome and that you can help them overcome. So. I think, you know, sometimes what, what gets missed in, you know, this culture of just entrepreneurship and this is what you need to do is giving yourself grace and taking a and six months to a year and literally just doing the work and sealing your way through sealing, feeling the rhythm and the type of work and letting that organically absolve. Over time and then coming in and starting to do your copy. You don't have to go all in, write on the get. Definitely not, Rachel: yeah, and, and probably not advisable either. Kris: the tarring right, you can, but most of us are pretty busy and, you know, \[00:34:00\] there's, there's, you know, two free resources I share with you that aren't very time consuming. And then, yeah, give it some time and that. Dive in when you're ready. Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I, you make such a great point there. It's just, you know, if you're just starting out, give yourself that time in six months to a year and, and kind of almost at, at that point insert yourself and do some, some pro bono work because then you get the hands on experience and. Before you invest all the money up front to go out. And unless you have a hundred percent certain clarity and the budget to do so, then you can go. But anyone who's just starting out, and you might just be like, oh, I'm a hundred percent, you know, going all in on my fitness coaching business. And then you get into the fitness coaching business, you're like, yeah, this isn't exactly the direction I wanna go. I wanna, you know, tailor more towards like nutrition or, or mindset or something like that. You know, if you've already spent that money upfront, you gotta go back and kind of do it again. So that's why, you know, kind of, kind of proceed with caution, I guess, would be the \[00:35:00\] advice that I would suggest. And maybe a little bit from, from you, Chris, and like at least just know what you are getting into. Kris: Yeah, I, I don't know if, I don't know if I would say Chris, with, with caution, I would say dive in and follow your heart and do, do the work. But like. Have fun with it and learn and keep iterating and, and I guess that's what I wanna say is like, it's an iterative process, so proceed with caution if you're gonna blow a bunch of money on someone to do it for you, and you're just starting for sure. Kris: that reminds no caution. Like Totally. Finally. Agreed. Agreed. And. If you, if you're really excited about what you're about to do and you really wanna get good at it and quickly then learn the some amount of story, keep iterating, keep, you know, going through my freebie and, and \[00:36:00\] referring it. Do the do the same, free me every couple months and see how it ABOs and change. It changes over time. That's probably the most powerful thing you can do is to really dive in with and get familiar with how to tell a compelling story and then that way you can use it in literally every aspect of your business. Rachel: Yeah, so true. And once you really phone that story and that story has power. It will just deliver for you, like you said, running auto, like automatically in the background through your website, through your written copy for websites, social media, emails, whatever that is. And so owning that is so, so powerful, and even the story brand itself really encapsulates that because there again, when you're telling a story, it's that connection. Even right before Chris and I hopped on, I was just telling her about a new, new term that I had learned. And, and it kind of, you know, \[00:37:00\] plays off a little bit of the, the storytelling, but it's called client telling. And if you are in the service of, you know, selling or retail or e-commerce or any of that, that client telling is similar to the storytelling. Like you get to learn the narrative of your clients. So that they're telling you what they're looking for, what they shop the most, when they, how often they shop, what their, their frequency, their, their needs, their expectations are. And so you learn a lot from your client telling that can be used into your brand storytelling. And so bringing those two, if you're a kind of a little trick that I just learned, but I don't know if it's, it's been for a while, but I just learned it. I, Kris: I haven't heard that chair before, but I really love it and. The way I interpret that term client to is really positioning your communication in a way that light your client into a narrative with you. So your, \[00:38:00\] your, your communication is based on what's important to your client, what do they care about? And if we do nothing else, like that's the most powerful thing that we can do with our communication. It's really deeply. Care about our grant. Communicate to them around the things that they care about and their dreams, their pains, their struggles, their goals, all of that stuff that we're all kind of standing the environment. It's really interesting. I, I don't like sharing the sags, but everybody knows it to be true because it sounds 10 of negatives, but as humans. We really only care about ourselves. Like of course we love our family and of course we, we have friends and we share about other people. We're wired to stay in the environment around us to figure out how we can survive and thrive. And that's why our brains turn off when we're, \[00:39:00\] we're reading copier's boring because there's a switch in our head, in our brain that goes not helping me survive and drive. You know, moving on to the next toast. And so when we know that and we understand that, you know, our brains are wired to figure out how we're gonna survive the drive, then you base your communication with that in mind changes. Rachel: So good. And that's so true. It is much as we don't wanna say, but yeah, we are very self-centered in that. You know, the eco ecosphere that we're in, right? We, we only see things from our own perspective and our own lens, so that's how it kind of passes through our self filtration system. So kind of, you know, we have to have that center self focal point. Kris: Yeah. And that's why we survived and thrived as humans. I mean, this is \[00:40:00\] why, where the issues that we are is because we are wire that race. It's not a bad thing, but it's really eye opening thing we, we recognize and you right with that in words. Well, this has just been an incredible conversation. I know that you have, you, you delivered such value from. Just kind of bringing some highlights to the bullet points to what to look for, what not to look for, and, and all the goods. And of course, you know, the, the free stuff that you are giving out for our listeners and knowing that whether they're, they don't know what they're, you know, getting into or just have some questions taking that. Free, you know, your free mini training series, compelling copy, and knowing that they can click back on a link and, and have a conversation with you about it. And so that's incredible because you don't know until you have that sometimes we're like you said, we're me, myself and I, you it. It's great to have a fresher perspective or somebody who's experienced in there to help \[00:41:00\] bring in some clarity, some direction, and. Sometimes just somebody to kind of help hash out what you're working through. Yes. Kris: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. So the freebie is Clarity was Prince, and my name's K, Chris K. Clarity was chris.com. And then you can also check out my offer at Red Door Design Step. It's red door design problem, and I'll walk you through the process. Rachel: Awesome. And of course all that will be in our show notes. And if anyone wants to follow along with you on your social media, how can somebody reach out? Is, is your website your best contact or which one would be your best? Kris: Madison would just on my one Slack website, that would probably be the desk Plain Stick Edge suite. And then you can also find me on Instagram at Red Door Ring with no s with N. Rachel: Awesome. All right, well all of that will be in the show notes below, so be sure to check that out. And I just wanna thank you, Chris, for coming on and just sharing your awesome \[00:42:00\] wisdom and, and just your experience and everything that you have delivered for us today. Kris: really a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-story-selling-can-attract-more-clients ### Title: How Story Selling Can Attract More Clients ### Page ID: 7619477 ### Content: ## How Story Selling Can Attract More Clients ## The Traveling Therapist Podcast with Kym Tolson Ever feel like your website and marketing efforts still aren’t attracting the right clients? On The Traveling Therapist Podcast, I sat down with host Kym Tolson to unpack why so many service providers get stuck in this situation... And how to finally fix it without feeling like you’re “selling” yourself. ? The hidden “bottle effect” that keeps your best clients from finding you ? The simple shift that helped my client go from a 20% to 95% close rate Learn how to use your authentic story to fill your calendar with dream clients, even if you’ve been told not to talk about yourself. ? If you’ve ever cringed at sending someone to your website, this episode is your game-changer. \[00:00:00\] **Kym\_:** Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Traveling Therapist podcast. Really excited to have our guest today. Kris Jones is with us. She's not a therapist, but I mean she probably could relate to a lot of us therapists, especially those of you listening that are super entrepreneurial and maybe trying to build other income streams, digital products, sort of thing. \[00:00:22\] Kris is a marketing expert and she has a signature system that she's gonna tell us about how to help you scale your business if you want to. How to help with your marketing, how to attract more of your ideal customers, even those of you that aren't therapists. Learning how to incorporate your story into attracting your ideal client. Kris is the expert with that. \[00:00:43\] So Kris, welcome. I'm so excited to have you here and hear about your journey and how you got to where you are and then how you help others do the same thing. So I'd love if you could tell us about yourself. \[00:00:53\] **Kris:** Yeah. Kim, thank you for having me. I'm really thrilled to be here. I'm, just fascinated by the concept of the traveling therapist and the freedom, the freedom that comes with that, because That's why I love the work that I do. Not only do I get to feel a sense of freedom being self-employed, but I get to help my clients make more money, which allows them to have more freedom, being self-employed as well. So I think it is just the ticket to, to joy and happiness in life \[00:01:26\] **Kris:** It really is, and it's such an honor to get to help people you know, get better at it and make more, and work less and have more fun. Mm-hmm. So, gosh, where do I begin? I've been doing this work for so many years, over 20 years I've been in the marketing space. \[00:01:44\] I started out as a visual storyteller, like as a child. That's what I was doing in hindsight. I didn't realize it at the time, but eventually I got into visual storytelling professionally, graphic design, brand design. I got hired by Nike to work in their brand design department. So I got to work along like the best of the best in the industry there. \[00:02:10\] And just learned, I learned, I learned and learned so much. Just being in, in an environment like that. And honed my skills. And then eventually went out on my own, started my own boutique firm, and really leaned into working with entrepreneurs, small business owners, individuals who I just had a heart for those people because I was that person too. \[00:02:39\] And I had done years of work for larger companies like Nike, like Adidas. I worked, Jeff Bezos was a client of mine at one point. And, I just like, that was fun. And that was a wonderful chapter of building credibility and building my resume really, upleveling my skills and then I was able to go out and do my own thing and work for the type of people that I really wanted to work with. \[00:03:07\] this was kind of back in the day when all you needed to succeed as a business was to have a website. It didn't matter really what it said. It didn't have to even be designed really well. if you had kind of like a kind of pretty website, you were legit and you would get clients, and it was like earlier in the earlier days of the internet. \[00:03:28\] and that's kind of what I focused on, is like I leaned into the branding, the logo design, the visual story and the website. And I would make it look beautiful, but eventually You know, the landscape online just changed over time. It took a while, but like everybody started to have a website and things got more crowded and it was harder to stand out. \[00:03:56\] Like a pretty website was not gonna do the heavy lifting anymore for a business. Like you needed to have a clear and compelling message you needed to really be clear about the problem that you solve, who you solve it for, and the transformation that you provide. \[00:04:12\] So I was having these clients. There was one in particular her name was Elise and she was a writer, and so she was gonna write her website and give it to me, and then I was gonna Design it for her, and she called me one morning, like the day that her copy was supposed to be delivered to me, and she was. She was a wreck. Like she had been up all night. \[00:04:37\] she had essentially been beating her head against the wall, trying to write the copy for her own website, which she knew through and through like, and she was a writer, so it was like, she was like, this is gonna be super easy. And what she found was the harder that she worked on the writing, the worse it got. \[00:04:56\] She was not having a breakthrough. And I liken this phase 'cause what she was going through trying to write for her own business. I call this the bottle effect because we're so close to our own business that it's like we're trying to read the label of the bottle that can only be read from \[00:05:14\] the outside and we're trying to read it from the inside. We're just so close to it. And so the harder we work, it doesn't get better. This is why her website copy was getting worse and worse and worse because it wasn't necessarily a writing problem, it was a perspective problem. \[00:05:31\] That's why I do the work that I do. I can come in with fresh eyes, look at you, look at your brilliance, look at your business, and pull out the golden nuggets of your story and weave together the golden thread that is you. That is, you know, unlike all the other competitors, and I think so often in business \[00:05:53\] we look to what our competitors are doing, and then we kind of emulate that, and then everything starts to look and feel the same. So, with Elise, she called me. She was devastated. I didn't feel really that equipped to help her. Like I gave her a template. I gave her the names of a couple of copywriters. \[00:06:14\] I told her to interview some of her clients for ideas. She tried all of it. None of it worked. I mean, it was just a, it was a mess and I couldn't help her. And the reason that she couldn't write her own copy and she couldn't hire out somebody to write it for her is because you can't outsource your own voice when you are the business. \[00:06:38\] You can't outsource your own voice. If you do, it'll come back to you. That writer will go work in a silo. It'll come back to you, and it might be really good copy, but it, doesn't feel fully aligned with your voice because you didn't create it. And so there's a disconnect. And then there's this back and forth of editing, revisions, refining. \[00:07:01\] And then by the end, you're out like thousands of dollars and you've essentially rewritten it yourself anyway, so \[00:07:10\] I mean, I have hired so many people to try to help me, and I swear every time it's like, no, that's not right. \[00:07:16\] **Kris:** it's off, it's off because you, you can't outsource your, your own voice and so, essentially, you know, it was, a moment for me. It was a career defining moment because I just said, I'm never letting this happen again. I'm going to master the art of not only how to tell a, a really powerful visual story, but to marry that with a very compelling written narrative. \[00:07:41\] so I, essentially went on a quest. I traveled across the country to workshops. I became one of the very first building a StoryBrand guides which they're now called, we're now called StoryBrand Coaches. But I got certified with Donald Miller. Before that book even came out, I was like, I was on board and I just lived and breathed story for a long time, and I started applying it to my own business. \[00:08:08\] Of course, I was, figuring it out, applying it to my own business. I never took on a project and didn't apply what I learned. The power of story. I used to kind of start with design and then the words were kind of an, an afterthought. \[00:08:25\] Now the story is everything. The story is the foundation. The story is the, the soil in the ground that everything grows from. And we, we begin with the story. So yeah, and, it was kind of mind blowing what happened. Like I had my own website. It was fine. I integrated story into it and I was having people calling me, going, I'm taking the train to Portland. \[00:08:55\] More than one potential client said, I'm taking the train to Portland. I'm road tripping to Portland. I wanna come meet you. I wanna work with you. We want you to, build our website. We want you to tell our story. And so people started traveling to Portland to meet me because they wanted to work with me. \[00:09:12\] My calendars started getting booked out with people. I was able to charge more for the work that I was doing and it totally shifted everything. but more importantly, I was getting calls from my clients, telling me things like Kris, you know, this one client I worked with, Mike, he was on the verge of burnout. \[00:09:32\] He literally was like, I'm either gonna shut the doors of my business, or I'm gonna invest and work with you. And he chose to bet on him himself and work with me, and he called me. It was like one of the best moments. He said, I'm charging six times more for the exact same service. \[00:09:51\] Like I was on the verge of burnout, I was about to close my doors, and now I'm charging six times more. And I'm working with people that are excited to pay that amount that are low maintenance. Right. That are, that are great clients. The clients that I, that he wanted to work with. And then I had another client who hired me to her name's Andrea. \[00:10:12\] She hired me to do this work with her to craft her signature story and to integrate it in all the way, all the areas that she shows up online. And she, of course, wanted to get more clients, wanted to make more money, but what she shared afterwards. A few months later, she called and she said, what I didn't realize I was buying from you was confidence. \[00:10:36\] I feel now that I have the words to communicate what I do, I show up with such a different energy in the world. And she is like, you can't put a price tag on that. But not only that. She quit selling. Like when you have a compelling story, you don't have to sell yourself like it does that work for you. \[00:10:57\] So she would get on her sales calls prior to working together. She would get on for every 10 sales calls, she would get on, she'd get two clients. So she had a 20% close rate essentially. And after she started integrating her story into her calls and it, it was aligned with what was on her website and it was just all congruent. Her close rate went up to 95%. for every calls, Yeah, for every 10 calls she got on, she got nine and a half  \[00:11:28\] **Kym\_:** Oh my gosh. That's amazing. That's incredible. \[00:11:31\] **Kris:** yeah. It's so powerful and what's, what I love about it more than anything is that it is working for you 24 7 on your website and anywhere you show up online in your social media. \[00:11:43\] But like I really think of your website as the sun of your marketing universe, no matter what you do out in the world, like you point people back to the website, that's the sun, and then the planets can be like a marketing event or a podcast interview or email marketing, whatever it is, like pick a planet or two and just point everything back to your website and just know that it will. \[00:12:09\] be your top sales employee, so you don't have to figure out how to fill your, client load, how to fill your calendar with paying clients. \[00:12:19\] **Kym\_:** It's amazing. So I'm thinking about therapists, right? with therapists. You know, in grad school, I mean, it's shifting, but we, learn no self-disclosure, don't talk about yourself at all. It's not appropriate if you're a therapist, that sort of thing. But over the years, you know, now therapists are becoming more savvy with social media. \[00:12:36\] They are sharing their stories on social media and talking more about, you know, like I was here and now I'm here and that's how I learned to do this. And we're getting a lot more public about our stories. So I'm just curious, like what advice would you have for like maybe a therapist that's trying to just attract their ideal client to their therapy practice and then maybe even like an entrepreneurial therapist to use their story and maybe selling digital products that might relate to their niche or that sort of thing. \[00:13:03\] Do you have advice Around your story selling model that could help a listening therapist, like learn how to use theirself more, even though we've kind of got this like taboo around it in our lives. \[00:13:15\] **Kris:** Yeah, well there are two kinds of stories that we tell. One is like a business narrative. it's your brand story, those are the stories that I really love because those are the stories that will make you more money. the other type of story is called the founder's story, and that's really about you, your life, your background, how, how you struggled with that problem and how you overcame it. \[00:13:41\] And, you know, it could be anything about your history. That's a different kind of story. It can be a, nice story to write or to have, but it's not the story that's gonna get you more clients. So I really focus on this brand narrative and. Think about the last time you went to a movie theater and the lights dimmed and the story began. \[00:14:06\] The story always begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. When a story begins in this way, our brains cannot help but fully engage. So of course, we want to apply. that same story flow to our business because it captures our attention in the way nothing else can in this day. \[00:14:28\] You sit there in that movie, you don't get up halfway through to get popcorn or look at your phone. Even. Nothing has the power to capture our attention in that way. So that's why we apply story to our business. And whether it's a book you've read, a movie you've gone to. It doesn't matter. Stories follow the same flow. \[00:14:49\] They always follow the same flow. They always begin with a hero that has a problem they dunno how to solve. Then the guide comes into the story about a third of the way through and gives them a plan and the. Thing that's most important to know here is that your clients are the hero of your story. You are the guide in the story. \[00:15:12\] You're the guide. You're the Yoda, you're the Mr. Miyagi, whichever. There's a guide in every story. A guide enters in about a third of the way through. Doesn't mean you know. you're the strongest as the guide. You're the strongest character in the story, but the hero is really the central character in the story, and this narrative allows your potential clients to imagine themselves working with you because. \[00:15:37\] They can see how you're both really important characters. So the guide comes in a third of the way through, gives their hero a plan that calls them to action. We want our heroes to take action. That's how we know our marketing is working. \[00:15:53\] People are taking that next step and then we pull them through the story and keep them fully engaged with stakes. And that just means success is possible. Failure is possible too, but we're gonna help you avoid failure. So our brains really like to know that you're gonna help me avoid failure. that feels really good for our brains. \[00:16:17\] I'm sure you know that as a therapist. So that's really the flow of every story that's ever told. And. That's the type of story that's going to build your business. \[00:16:31\] **Kym\_:** Yeah, yeah. I totally agree with you. And a lot of times, you know, therapists are come to me for private coaching or something, but like, I can't get clients at all. And really one of the first things I wanna do is look at their directory profile listing. You know, how are you approaching, are you like saying, oh, I've got, you know, five master's degrees and I specialize in blah, blah, blah, and, and they're missing the transformation completely. \[00:16:55\] So I can totally relate to what you're saying, instead of approaching it like. Who is this person I'm trying to help and how am I gonna help them transform into who they wanna be with my, unique method, whatever that is, that my therapeutic approach or my story selling method, like you've got, you know, that kind of \[00:17:10\] **Kris:** Yeah, yeah. People don't actually wanna work with the best, they don't wanna work with the person that has the most credentials or is, Positioning themselves, as the best of the best. Not that that's a bad thing, but people don't work with the best. They work with the one they feel the most connected with. \[00:17:27\] So does your messaging cultivate a connection? Is your message on your profile and all the different places that you show up online as a therapist, is it centered around the hero? with the words that you're using are they feeling seen? Are they feeling heard? Are they feeling not alone in their struggle? \[00:17:48\] And are, are they feeling like you're the obvious choice to help them overcome that struggle and really experience success and avoid failure? So the transformation is really key, but. In addition to that, the beauty of the story is that it, cultivates a real connection between two people, just like when you'd sit down, if you were to meet somebody for a first 10 minute coffee date, you wouldn't sit down and launch into all the accolades and all the, degrees that you have. You just wouldn't do that. You would sit down and connect and you'd say, what's going on for you? \[00:18:26\] And so often we, we get excited about what we do. We wanna talk about it, and we're like, of course it's my website, or, this is my profile. Of course I should talk about myself. But really, we wanna do it at the right time. First, we need to really create that connection and that's the power of story. And then there is a certain point in the story where it is important to build some authority and show that you know what you're doing, but you don't wanna jump the gun or do it too prematurely or you just, you total, it's off-putting, honestly. \[00:19:02\] **Kris:** Yeah. We're gonna click off your, click off the page and Keep looking for somebody \[00:19:07\] **Kym\_:** Totally. And, and you know, you said Mr. Miyagi, it's got it. It just like clicked in my head. Remember when like, Danielle's son first saw him like do like a, like a karate kick and it was like, oh, he is the expert. You know, like that kind of thing where he beat up the bad guys or something. It's so true. \[00:19:22\] That's when you bring in the expertise. Like you don't have to prove that in the beginning. You have to build the rapport. Yeah. \[00:19:27\] So, okay, let's, let's say like a therapist is listening right now and they're like, I have no idea how to even begin to do this to connect with a potential person visiting my website for the first time. \[00:19:38\] is there any like trick or hack or something that you could give to, to say like, this is where we look, or this is where we find that capture point or something like that. I don't know what you call it, but. \[00:19:49\] **Kris:** I think the biggest thing is to shift your mindset around your hero. Your clients really need to be the central character in your story. And when a therapist is the hero of their own story, this is a big mistake. the hero's actually the weakest character in the story because we don't know if they're gonna succeed or fail. We don't know, right? they have yet to figure that out. \[00:20:13\] So when you're the hero of your own story, number one, you're the weakest character in this story. Number two, there's only room for one hero. In every story. And so when you are the hero, you kick your potential client out of the story. They can't even enter in, and so they'll come to your website or they'll come to your profile online and just keep strolling or keep there. There's like, you've kicked them out of this story. They can't imagine themselves engaging with you. \[00:20:42\] the first thing I would do is start to shift the lens at which you look at your business. The lens which you talk about your business and start positioning yourself as the guide and really think about your clients as the hero of your story and the tangible thing that you can do. Is go to my website, red door stories.com. \[00:21:07\] I have a freebie it's under the resources section it's called How to Write Compelling Copy in five Minutes Flat, it's a five minute video. I hold your hand through the process of really tangibly changing that lens and getting those ideas out of your head onto paper and organizing them in a way that flows with stories so you, you can get the basic foundation of your story dialed in just through that freebie on my website. \[00:21:39\] **Kym\_:** Oh, I'm gonna go do that later today. That's really cool. \[00:21:43\] **Kym\_:** So then, what is the process like working with you? Let's say they, they get that initial, you know, basis down with the freebie. what is the process with you? Somebody that's like an expert in this? I'm just curious to hear about it. How it, how it all \[00:21:55\] **Kris:** Yeah. I'm so glad you asked, because we touched earlier on that challenge of you can't outsource your own copy because it doesn't feel like you, so how do we overcome that? So the reality is your story is not invented or created. It is inside you, it's inside your head, it's inside your heart. \[00:22:15\] So number one job for me is to pull that story out of you. And I know the questions to ask in order to, get that information. And basically this phase is called the Mining for Gold process. we mine for the gold inside your head and your heart and I pull it out, the golden nuggets, they're rough, they're a little dirty. \[00:22:37\] I polish them up, I shine them up. I craft your narrative for you, but because it's come from you, it already feels in alignment with your voice. then I craft your narrative. I craft your signature story, and we initially tackle the website. So how's the story gonna live on your website? And then we collaborate. \[00:23:00\] So we have a 90 minute collaboration call. And we go through every aspect of your story, and I help you understand the strategy and the thinking behind everything that I've written. I believe every word is guilty until proven innocent. So I really, we go through, I help you understand the strategy, but it's also a chance for us to refine and tweak together. \[00:23:23\] So we just double ensure that it's. Super aligned with your voice. So that's how we overcome that problem. And then we have your signature story and you can apply that to your website. And we also, that's when me and my team get together and. basically create versions of your story that are gonna live in different areas of your business. \[00:23:48\] So your therapist profile on Psychology Today, every touch point that you show up online needs to be congruent and consistent with the story that's on your website. So I craft your one-liner. I craft a video script for you. It's really important if you wanna stand out as a therapist to have a video introducing yourself on the page and stepping into the story as the guide, so I write your video script. \[00:24:19\] The reason that you really only need one story for your entire business is because, number one, you wanna tell the same story everywhere so you have a consistent message. People need to read things eight times in order to commit it to memory. So the more consistent you can be, the more memorable you're gonna become. \[00:24:39\] the other thing about story is that your signature story works a lot like an accordion. So there's shorter versions of it. Like when someone says, what do you do? How do you answer that question? That's gonna be a shorter version of your story. Longer version's gonna be. Your website middle version might be a video script that, I write for you. \[00:25:01\] So it really does, like, it's consistent, but it can stretch and, and expand and condense. \[00:25:08\] **Kris:** Yeah. So after after we craft your signature story for your website, then we create. The various versions, the shorter versions and the video script for you. So you basically have everything you need. I deliver it in what I call as the brand copy Bible. \[00:25:24\] So you have one document that has your story. The only story you're ever gonna need to tell for your business is there in the different versions of it. and then at that point, you just start getting more clients. So that's, that's the process. It's mine for gold. \[00:25:39\] **Kris:** Mine for gold. Refine your story, design your website, and sign more clients. \[00:25:43\] **Kym\_:** I love that, and I would imagine when you have this version of your story, it helps, guide social media and that sort of thing. You could tell little parts of the story in different ways consistently over time. \[00:25:53\] **Kris:** Yeah, in the brand copy Bible, I have templates and training for social media. So I have an approach to social media that I call the Freedom 15. It allows you to have the 15 posts every therapist needs in order to turn your Instagram grid into a really powerful sales page. I haven't posted on Instagram in almost two years because. \[00:26:17\] **Kris:** The page is there, it's working for me, just like my website is, and it's, you know, people are coming to me through that. But it gets you off the hamster wheel \[00:26:25\] **Kym\_:** Gosh. That is like true freedom. When you said that, I was like, oh my gosh. \[00:26:29\] **Kris:** yeah. It's pretty great. And then there's also a short training there and a template that allows you to. Use story on your sales calls. \[00:26:39\] So we're just making sure that there aren't any broken links from the time they find you online to the time that, you know, they become a client. We need to, to shore up that entire process, and that's what we do. \[00:26:52\] **Kym\_:** That's so smart. cause I mean, a lot of therapists, like I said, we're entrepreneurial. We have products and, and that sort of stuff. But definitely that initial consultation call, even with with a therapy client, is super important to kind of close the deal, you \[00:27:05\] **Kris:** Totally. Yeah, it is. And you mentioned something about having like alternate revenue streams and how would that work. you need one story for your whole business and within that story, you're gonna present your suite of offerings, and it might include therapy. It might include one-on-one therapy or group therapy. \[00:27:25\] It might include a course, but because it's all created by you, there's always like a golden thread that ties them all together. And then we work together to really tidy up your suite of offerings and you can have digital products within there. You can have group, you can have one-on-one, what whatever it is. \[00:27:46\] I always work with my clients to kind of present their suite of offerings in a way that really feels good and allows the hero to make a, a choice. \[00:27:57\] **Kym\_:** Yes. Oh my gosh. So how do people find you, we kind of mentioned some places already, but how do people find you? How do they work with you if they want to, if they're \[00:28:04\] **Kris:** Yeah, the number one thing you should do is go to my website, red door stories.com, and click on the blue button in the upper right hand corner. I offer a free moneymaking messaging call where we will get on a call, we'll look at the story that you're telling. We'll identify the areas that you need to shore up the holes in your boat, we'll, talk about your business, what you're struggling with, and I offer those calls for free. \[00:28:36\] And if you're interested, then we talk about what it would look like to work together. So that would be number, number one. Book a call with me. I'd love to meet you. I'd love to talk with you. Um, Number two, check out the resources page. There are a couple different options in there, but the main one I would encourage you to go through if you're more of a DIY or you're just wanting to kind of delve deeper into this work. \[00:29:01\] It's the compelling copy, how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. So sign up for that. Yeah, \[00:29:08\] **Kym\_:** Thank you so much for taking the time today.  *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/ep-41-turn-dead-facebook-group-client-converting-community-megan-huber ### Title: Why Your Facebook Group Isn't Getting Clients + How to Fix It with Megan Huber ### Page ID: 7673152 ### Content: Why Your Facebook Group Isn't Getting Clients + How to Fix It with Megan Huber You know that group you created with the best intentions? The one that's sitting there with minimal engagement while you're desperately trying to find clients on Instagram? It's not your fault it's not working. But it is costing you clients every day. Megan has built over 50 Facebook groups in 14 years and discovered something fascinating: The problem isn't your content, it's your approach. Most of us treat Facebook groups like audiences to broadcast to. But what if you treated yours like a community where people actually belong? ? Megan converts 8% of her active members into paying clients (industry average is 1%) ? Her "$97 hero offer" is filling $30,000 programs better than traditional funnels The secret? She stopped building an audience and started building community. In this episode, she walks through her exact process for reviving dead groups (she even archived hers for two years!) and turning them into client-generating machines. Why Your Facebook Group Isn't Getting Clients + How to Fix It with Megan Huber CTC Ep. 41 | Why Your Facebook Group Isn't Getting Clients + How to Fix It with Megan Huber Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Megan Huber, thank you for being here today. I am so delighted to be having a conversation with you. Megan: Thank you so much, Kris. I'm excited to dive in, It's gonna be a, I think, a really delightful and valuable conversation for every listener. Megan: So I primarily work with coaches, course creators, experts, online educators, you know, that whole industry. And I help them reignite, reboot, uh, kinda reimagine their Facebook groups that they have probably utilized in the past. \[00:01:00\] And used to get a lot of clients from maybe at one time it was really engaged. It was hopping in there. Facebook groups were the thing. I mean, I've had Facebook groups since 2011 and you know, they implemented different tactics and strategies along the way. And they have a Facebook group that's sitting there, whether it has a hundred people in it or 25,000 people in it, or a hundred thousand people in it. And I help them tap back into rebuilding that group into a buyer ready community without having to rely on paid ads, without having to rely on any of us dancing around on reels to try to go viral and be an influencer, really, without having to do a lot of the things that they don't want to do. Or they've tried and they hated it. Um, and we help them get clients directly from their Facebook group. Megan: I, you know, I think the first step is you have to be very clear on the purpose of your group, and I \[00:02:00\] really encourage people to have this perspective that your group is just not a, it's just not a group of people who happen to stumble upon you and click the join button to join your Facebook group. Treat those people like you have created a place for them to come and belong with other people who are very similar to them. And be very clear that what you're doing is you are leading a community and there's a certain way, there's a certain, um, you know, call it steps. There's a certain energy about a leader that can cultivate and facilitate a powerful community where the right people are in that community for the community's sake, but also for the sake of your business. Because obviously we have businesses. We are not here to work for free. We are here to take care of our business, which the number one way to take care of the business is it has to be generating revenue. And \[00:03:00\] so you are cultivating this group of people who you are building a relationship with. You are building trust with them. There's number of ways to do that, which we can get into. Mm-hmm. And then when the timing is right, you are making offers and you're making the right offer to those people and you're inviting them to work with you. Um, and it becomes a very, it's, I mean, it's fun. It's high energy inside your Facebook group. I think a lot of people kind of poo poo on Facebook groups now because we've heard like a bunch of freebie seekers, a bunch of tire kickers, you know, like people I would never wanna work with. Those are the only people joining Facebook groups. Well, I'm here to tell you, I just ran the numbers, uh, today and my Facebook group is I don't have high volume in my Facebook group. So I don't, I'm not one of those Facebook groups. I don't have 50,000 people in my group, but I ran some numbers today with an offer that I came up with at the end of April. So by the time of, you know, what, five weeks ago, based on the date of this recording, and out of \[00:04:00\] all the people in the Facebook group we're converting 3% of them into the offer. But an even more interesting stat, and that's above average, industry average is 1% out of all the active members, because not all of the members of your Facebook group are active. We have, we have an 8% conversion. Which is really good. And that is just from posting, doing a live stream once a week and interacting and building a relationship with each individual in the dms. And if we could just kind of like tie a bow on, like how do you do it? Obviously there's so many things we could talk about, but it is showing up very consistently. It is creating content that is for one avatar, solving one problem, helping them get one result. So you have one main go to park market message. You are putting one main offer in front of them all the time. Even if you have other offers, you're putting one in front of them. Most of the time you are creating content around that you are going live. So do a \[00:05:00\] live stream, same day, same time every single week. I tend to go pretty long. Mine, mine, you know, my last one is like 44 minutes and some people wanna, you know, die. When they hear that well go 15 minutes, go 10 minutes. It doesn't matter. And add extraordinary value to people's lives and value. Let's define what value is. Value means someone can listen to your live or read your post, and they can go take an action. And from that action, they can get a small win. They can get a small result. And then the third part, so posting live streams and then get into the dms with people. Because the dms, it's really where the magic happens. It's where a lot of your relationship building is happening. It is where you are finding out, you know, what are people struggling with, what topics do they want to hear from, what are their goals? Obviously there's ways to ask those questions so people don't feel put off by you. And then our job as a leader of a Facebook group \[00:06:00\] is as soon as someone joins. I want them to start consuming my content. And so we start building that relationship in the dms very early on, kind of leading them around to really great value inside of the Facebook group. And then continuing to stay in touch with that person and invite them to other things that you have going on and providing resources to them. And then again, oftentimes, I mean, sometimes you're making offers to people in the dms. Other times, like today, I had this experience, oh, I got a DM about 30 minutes before we popped on this recording, and someone said, I think I need to join your program because of X, Y, Z. And it's somebody that I've been building a relationship with, so I didn't even have to be the one to go ask her. She's now saying to me, I think I need to join you. Well, why does that happen? Because there's a plethora of content directly for that person that is inside that community. And it's high energy. It's in, it's enthusiastic, there's confidence in there. People feel like they belong. People are celebrating. It's a place, you're creating a place where \[00:07:00\] people want to be and they wanna check into just to see what's going on in there and who's in there and what are we learning today and who's taking action. And it's just a really awesome place that you're building for people to gather and then buy from you. Kris: Mm. Yeah. That's beautiful. So tell me, how do you handle it? Like, tell me the difference between if you've got a group and it's just gone stale, like it's dead in your mind, how do you revitalize that? Megan: Yeah, so I, I've been in the coaching space since 2011. I created my first Facebook group in 2011 and I think I've probably started, you know, pop-up, uh, lots of pop-up Facebook groups for different reasons. Probably a well over 50 in the last 14 years. I've been in this coaching space for a long time. Uh, in the current Facebook group that I have. I opened it up in January of 2017. I had worked as a full-time employee for a very large scale coaching company, left at the end \[00:08:00\] of 2016, and my very first step was to, after I got clear on who I, who am I gonna serve, what's my offer, I opened up a Facebook group. And so the Facebook group I'm in today is the same one that I started on January 2nd, 2017. Fast forward to early 2022, I decided to pause on building my coaching business and I pivoted my entire business model to consulting, and I don't necessarily recommend anybody go stop what they're doing that's making money and then completely pivot your business model. It's not the smartest thing to do, but I did it and I made it work. And during that process, I archived my Facebook group that. Has had been sitting there, uh, for two, I mean, sat there for two years. Archived. Archived means you can see the content in it, but I can't post and no one else can post. So there's zero action that's going in. The people in there probably don't even know that the Facebook group still exists. Mm-hmm. So in 2024, I knew \[00:09:00\] that at some point I was gonna come back into the coaching and, and rebuild my coaching business like I had done before. I just didn't know when. And so I really started getting the itch for that in early 2024. And I knew I was ready around September of 2024. So guess what I did? I went back in my memory and I thought, what did I do in 2017 that was so powerful that literally I built my whole business inside of that Facebook group and I thought it was a Facebook group. That's how I introduced myself to the world. That's how I. Gave value to people. That's how I positioned myself as a generous expert. That's how I was able to essentially funnel all the right people, the ideal avatar into this place where they could be learning from me and I could make offers. So I said, I'm gonna do the same thing again. And I knew I had to reestablish myself as a coach in that area of expertise. 'cause it's, it was, you know, a different avatar from what I was doing with the consulting, same body of work, very different avatar. \[00:10:00\] So I thought in my head, um, I'm either gonna do one of two things. I'm either going to start over from scratch and I'm gonna build a brand new Facebook group. And I was kind of leaning towards that. Or I'm gonna unarchive the group that I have. And a mentor of mine said this to me. He said, Megan, amateurs keep starting over. Professionals. Start with what they have. Are you an amateur? Are you a professional? And I said, I am a professional. So he said, you go unarchive that group. Don't go star from scratch. It'll take you forever. So I un archived it. And a lot of people think that they have to give their audience some big, long, drawn out reason as to why they haven't been in their Facebook group. You do not have to do that, and that makes us feel better, but that's not really serving your community at all. So my mentality was. I'm gonna show up in my group like, no time has passed and I'm going to show up as the leader that these people need, want, and are looking for. And if \[00:11:00\] they want it to be me, they can stick around. If they don't want it to be me, they can exit the group. And I'm totally cool with that. So that number, number one, that's the mentality you have to have. There can't be ego in it. It cannot be about you. You really do have to show back up in that group like you are here to lead and serve. And I did the same thing I did back in January, 2017. In my mind I thought, I'm gonna reestablish myself as a generous expert, which is I'm giving away tons of content that's very high value. Every single day, I'm gonna start going live every single week, same day, same time. I'm gonna promote that live all the time. I'm gonna find my way into the dms to reestablish some relationships with people. I'm gonna ask a few people who I know well enough who will say yes to me. I'm gonna request them, do me a solid, and start commenting on my posts inside the group, because it gives it a little bit of buzz. You feel a little better. It kind of triggers the algorithm a little bit. So I asked, you know, 10, 20 people who I knew would say \[00:12:00\] yes to me, and I knew they would do it. And I was not gonna make an offer. I wasn't there to make an offer. I was there to reestablish myself and build relationships. So I just gave away content for two and a half months, October through end of December before I ever made an offer. It took me 30 days to start really seeing people reengage. It was 30 days of me showing up every day. Then I finally started seeing like a measurable engagement from people in the group, because people are waiting to see if you're gonna stick around. They're waiting to see if they can trust you. They're waiting to see if you're, you know, really gonna honor what you said you're gonna do. And then towards the end of December, I decided, okay, I am ready to make an offer. I'm clear on what my offer is. I know what people want. I know how to position it. It was my same expertise. I wasn't trying to go in a new direction. And I made an offer. And I made that offer the entire month of January, 2025. It was into a group program and I, it was a beta group. And I met my goal with that \[00:13:00\] and I just kept going. And again, it's kind of what I said, um, and in response to your initial question, it's, it's bringing your energy and your enthusiasm and your conviction and your confidence. Your desire and love to help people get unstuck and to help people end whatever suffering they're in. I mean, that's why all of us are doing what we're doing. And people really need to feed off of that courage and that confidence in that belief that you have, not just in yourself, but also in them. So when you, when you come from that place, from within, it's um, I mean people, it's very noticeable for people and they wanna be around that because they wanna activate something like that, that they know exists inside of themselves. So, I mean, it's not rocket science. It's, it was those activities. It, and it's consistency. That's consistency is kind of the name of the game. It's consistent. And don't worry if nobody shows up to your live \[00:14:00\] stream live, because everybody's gonna watch the replay anyway. Now I work with a lot of coaches, a lot of consultants and and service providers who are feeling maxed out and spread too thin already. And my question for you is, you mentioned like showing up every day, like with your strategy and the way that you, you guide people. What's the, the time commitment here? Like when you say show up every day, what does that really mean? Megan: I get this question a lot. You know, I'd say like one of the biggest objections that I hear and that all of us are probably hearing a lot right now. Yeah, we always, we've always heard the money objection, but sometimes I think the bigger objection is the time objection. How long is this gonna take me? Because to your point, people are already overwhelmed. They're already spread too thin, and I, I get it. The people who are in my community definitely are \[00:15:00\] feeling that, and for everybody listening to this, everybody in our audiences and communities, when they're coming to us, they're, they are also in a state of overwhelm. They are also in a state of, I'm burned out. I don't have time. And we are feeling that too as a service provider. So I'll be very, very honest. You know, I probably only spend about an hour a day inside my Facebook group. So what are those activities? I'm, and I'm definitely in there every day. So every day I am in there posting content. And it's not always me sitting down to write a very long form piece of content that takes me 45 minutes to write. In fact, I don't do a whole lot of long form writing content inside my Facebook group. I tend to do my long form writing content outside the group. To establish myself as a generous expert that then brings people into the Facebook group. So I actually spend more time on content that's outside the group to bring people into the group. So I do write a \[00:16:00\] post at least once a day, but I typically am in there really engaging and getting to know my community. So I tend to post multiple times throughout the day. And that could be a mixture of educational content, inspirational content. Lot of my inspirational content is showcasing, um, and honoring and edifying the people who are clients in programs and really helping establish them as a leader in the community. So there's quite a bit of that. There's a lot of, uh, reminders of what we have going on, whether I'm doing something free or I'm doing something inside of a paid program. Um, so educational, inspirational, engaging content, asking questions. So some of your questions, they are community building questions. Um, some of your questions are things you're asking that don't really have anything to do with what your expertise is, but you know, 50 to a hundred people are gonna respond, which boosts the algorithm. For instance, I just asked this week, I think my \[00:17:00\] post said something, I'm itching to, uh, bring us together for some local gatherings. Where is everybody from? Who's in the community? That's a really popular one because people all wanna say where they're from and they wanna see where everybody else is from. And I just spun it. So it's more like community geared, like, let's get together in person look. 'cause I really wanna do that. Mm-hmm. So engagement posts do polls, uh, polls get a lot of engagement and then promotional posts. So you're kind of doing a mix of all of those every single week. Your promotional posts, you're only doing about 10% of the time. Uh, so I'm in there every day, but posting doesn't take much time. Then I'm always responding when people are making comments to those posts. That's a stuff that a lot of people don't like to do, but it's your big, it's one of your biggest relationship builders is to go in and be engaging with what they're saying and you wanna do it pretty quickly. I do go live once a week and my lives are about 30 to 45 minutes. It takes me 15 minutes to plan a life. So not a whole \[00:18:00\] lot of time is going into that. And I'd say the bulk of my time is spent in the dms with people, whether I am messaging people when they first join, and there's platforms you can do that automate some of that as well. But certainly when people get into a back and forth and they're answering your questions that no longer needs to be automated, that needs to be a human being kind of going back and forth and having that conversation with them. I, my first goal with people in the DMS is to find out what do I have that's valuable that can really help this person right now? Because I, you need them to start consuming you very, very quickly and you want them, ideally, to consume you on video because people need to consume us. Now, the statistic is five to 10 hours before they ever buy. Mm-hmm. So I do, you know, I am on this cell phone device a lot, and I'm kind of just having very nonchalant conversations with people at any time of day whenever I want. And I don't mind \[00:19:00\] if it's within my working hours or if it's on a Saturday morning at 10 o'clock and I happen to look at my phone, I'm gonna respond to people. I'm gonna engage with people because I want to show them I'm consistent. I want to show them that I care and I want to do what I need to do to actually earn the right to make an offer to them and earn their business. And I think that we've gotten very far away from understanding that just because we're here. Just because we're smart, just because we have something valuable to offer behind the paywall that does not warrant us earning someone's business. So I'm not over here bending over backwards, letting people cross boundaries. I have very strong boundaries, but you better believe I'm giving people what they wanna and need, and I am building relationships with people in a one-on-one way because it allows me to literally have somebody I could be making an offer to every single day. Every single day. So, you know, if. It's about an \[00:20:00\] hour-ish a day that's really focused on the community of the Facebook group. And then obviously all of us have other marketing and sales activities that we're doing outside of that as well. Kris: How do you prepare for your lives? Like how do you know what to talk about? Tell, tell us the prep work for that. That, that's a little bit of a mystery to me, so I'd, I'd love to hear. Megan: You know, I kind of go back and forth on what really works for me. I think we're always kind of like navigating what is really gonna work for me. I will share what has helps me the most, and I think this is one of, you probably see this too with storytelling. Um, I find that all of us tend to have a hard time going all in on what is the go to market problem I'm solving, what is the go to market result? I'm helping people achieve. What is the go-to market offer I'm gonna make, and even with our clients, and some of you listening to this, you totally get what we're talking about. Like one of the \[00:21:00\] biggest hangups people have, our our clients is, but I, but every single client I've worked with came to me with a different problem. And every single client I've worked with, I helped them get a very different result. So there's, there's 18 problems I solve and there's 14 results I help people get. And Kris, you could say that about your work. I could say that about my work. Like you lead with storytelling for the purpose of the website. Then once someone's working with you, that leads to storytelling for the podcast, storytelling for speaking on a stage story, all these other things, Megan: And I'm in a similar boat, in a different body of work, a different topic. However, if we're out there talking about all the different problems we can solve and all the different results, we can help all the people get. The brain cannot, the brain doesn't even know what to look at in terms of the audience member, the, the brain of your audience member, the brain, like, it doesn't even know, like, where do I go? What do I do with this? Is she for me? Is she not for me? She's kind of talking about she solves my problem, but then over here she's talking about this. So I'm not really \[00:22:00\] sure I wanna go to somebody who's just all in on that one thing. And I'm, I'm leading with that part of the conversation because what has helped me so much over the years, and I'm not new to this game. I've been doing it since 2011. I still felt like I was kind of all over the place, even though it all fit into my body of work and my expertise. But I thought I'm actually making a little bit difficult for, for people to know what I do and who it's for and the problem I solve. So the first thing that is really helpful for, for my clients, your clients, everybody listening to this, for me, it is, what's the one thing you're gonna talk about in the marketplace Now you might have four offers. You might help people solve lots of problems and help people get lots of results. However, talk about one thing out front. You know, lead with one thing for me. It's building a buyer ready community. It's turning your Facebook group into a buyer ready community. That is literally what every single one of my lives are about. Every single week, I \[00:23:00\] do not talk about anything else. And if you go and listen to a series of my lives, you will hear me say a lot of the same thing every single week. I might just find like a slightly different angle, or I might say it a slightly different way, but I'm really s I'm really repeating myself over and over and over again. I might throw in new stories that you didn't hear me tell last week. It's the same thing though again and again. So that's number one. It it. Makes it so much easier for you to come up with topics for your live streams. When you let yourself just talk about one thing, what do you want to be known for? When people are asking questions in Masterminds and other Facebook groups like, Hey, who's the expert on storytelling? You want every single person to put, Kris, is the goat on storytelling specifically for your website? Because people know that's what you do. I want people to say, Megan's the goat when it comes to building community. You shouldn't go to anybody else but Megan. That's the only thing I'm gonna talk about. So that's number one. Uh, number two, I typically will then use Chachi \[00:24:00\] PT to help me come up with a little bit of a better hook than what I feel like I can come up with on my own. Mm-hmm. So I will feed Chachi bt. What I want the title to be or what I want the topic to be. And then I'll prompt it to make it more SEO friendly, or SEO rich, like I'll just feed it a little, I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it tends to write a better hug than I can come up with. But I am telling it what I want it to do. It's not necessarily telling me like, oh, you should talk about this. So once I have that hook, uh, then I sit down with pen and paper and I really go into my own experience. So I find that it's so much easier to come up with very, uh, rich content when you are in the trenches of your expertise, when you are actually teaching from what is working and what is not working for you and your clients right now. And I'll go jot that down. And I will also, uh, come up with at least one example, one story \[00:25:00\] of a client that I can share or a story about myself that I can share that makes sense with what I'm teaching. And once I have my main points, I stick to three, maybe five. But when I have five, I talk too long. So three is way better. And then I'll do an intro that is like introducing myself because people are new, listening to you every single week. I reintroduce myself. I then kind of pick the scab of what the problem is that people are dealing with. Here's three main points. And then I do a call to action to my entry level offer almost every single live that I do. And I sprinkle in talking about my entry level offer all throughout my live. And I do have it typed up. I do have it on my computer screen on a Google Doc, and I am looking at it when I'm going live. Uh, sometimes I'll write it on paper and then, then I have to look over. But I'm notorious for like going off on a tangent and then talking way too long. So I \[00:26:00\] really need it. Dialed in for me on a Google Doc, but that's my, that's my process. Kris: Mm. That's so good. I really love that you, you dove deep into this one problem that you solve. 'cause you're right, it's such a challenge for people and I think it can be and feel really scary to narrow the work that you do down to one thing. But I will tell you it's the best thing that you can do for your business is to be known for solving one problem. Pick your problem. I know, you know, you might say, I'm gonna transform your life. Okay. That's too vague. You want to pick one problem, and I like to think of this, and this is what. I went through this with my own business, where I chose my on-ramp. What do I wanna lead with? What do I, what kind of on-ramp do I wanna create for my own business? Everybody comes to me for storytelling, typically \[00:27:00\] related to their website. That is what I chose to be my on-ramp. And then all the other things I do are in the background. Like I help clients with all kinds of things, but that's really how they come through my front door. So I, I'm really grateful that you really, it drove that point home. Megan: I, I love the words that you used to describe that. The front door and the on-ramp. 'cause people understand what a front door is and they understand what on. That's really, really good. Kris: One of the examples I like to share is the way brains work. Right? Our brains can't straddle multiple things at one time, which is why we need to pick the one thing we wanna be known for. And if a plumber came to my house, resolved my plumbing issue, and I was like, great. Yes. I, now I have in that little. Category in my brain. I have great plumber that can solve problems, and he told me on his way out the door. \[00:28:00\] By the way, if you, you know, love pies. I'm an incredible baker and I have like a popup shop of pies over on the corner, corner down the street. I, I, that wouldn't feel good to me. It would feel like there's a disconnect. Wait, I thought you were like the plumbing guy, but now you're the pie guy. And I would probably forget him all together because my brain can't connect the dots there. And so anyway, our businesses are, are really the same. Like, we wanna be known for solving the problem. And the more narrow you can get with it, the more freedom you have. Like you said, like it's actually easier to create content when you're talking about one thing over and over again. It's like a fine wine. Like you get, you can get deeper and deeper and deeper into it and go into the nuances of it. And I actually had a, a conversation with my assistant today and she was like, don't you think we should be like \[00:29:00\] having more variety, you know, and, and some of our email marketing. And I was like, Nope. No, no, we are gonna, we're gonna beat the drum over and over again because the more people can spend time with you, the more you can help them solve a micro problem, the more likely they are to work with you. People don't, they actually don't wanna work with the best. They wanna work with the one they feel the most connected to. Megan: yeah. That's good. That's good. Yes. When you were talking about the front door, that's what was reminding me. So, you know, if we think of a house and there's a front door to the house and the front door leads you into the four year only, but the house has, let's say seven or eight other rooms where I find people really struggling with this power. I call it the power of one focus on one problem that you solve. One result you help people achieve one main core solution, meaning like slash one offer. And it's for one main \[00:30:00\] avatar. Where I see people really getting hung up on that concept is that there's this fear that there's two fears. I see one fear is, but I'm gonna leave out so many people I could be serving. And then the other fear I think people have that they don't actually say out loud, the first one they say out loud. The second one is, I think people believe it's gonna diminish their value or diminish their worth or diminish their body of work. Because that's how I felt too, because I really led with internally as a business owner, um, I need to be the smart one. People hire me because I'm smart. I have multiple degrees, I have a master's degree, I have all this experience. I know what I'm talking about. I have the answers. I'm smart. And that was validated a lot because a lot of people would tell me, I'm hiring you for your brain. I'm hiring you because you're smart. But that's also what I wanted to hear. And so even I've really struggled with. Honing in on what's my front door, what's my on-ramp? Because in, you know, \[00:31:00\] subconsciously it was like, but I'm only valuable if people see me as smart. And if I'm not talking about all the things I could do, does that mean I'm not smart? Mm-hmm. And if I'm equating my value and worth to my level of smartness. So that was just my issue. But I do see, and other people have like, it's not a smart thing, it's something else. But I think people have this idea that if my front door is only about storytelling on websites, or if my front door is reactivating my Facebook group and turning it into a buyer ready community, I don't ever get to do anything else with people. And that's not what we're saying, but we are saying you need to make it easier to be found by people who are ready to buy from you. And so everything you're sharing and everything I'm sharing, what we're trying to get across is you need to make it easier to be found. By the person who's ready to swipe their credit card with you. And the more things that we're out there talking about, all the problems, all the results, all the offers, people are, you're making it harder for people to identify \[00:32:00\] you as the go-to person for that, that one thing that they want solved right now. And look, once you get 'em into the front door, they wanna go into the kitchen and get your pies. They wanna go sit with you on the couch and have coffee with you, right? Hopefully they don't wanna go into your bedroom, but you know, they wanna go explore all the other things that you have once they're in and they're working with you and they're getting great results in the foyer, Megan: I think Krisy bring it out of me. You're like storytelling queens. So you're bringing out the stories and the metaphors. Kris: Let's, let's talk a little bit about client acquisition. Um, you had mentioned a little bit earlier before our, we hit record that there's like this 18 month mark. It's taking longer for coaches to get clients. What's going on? What are you, what are you noticing? Megan: Yeah, it is, and I would say client acquisition and sales is the \[00:33:00\] number one problem every organization and company is facing right now. And look, all my, my whole, all my work is in the coaching and online education space. So I'm not really paying like super close attention to every other industry on the planet. Uh, but in the coaching and education space, it has slowed down and it has really slowed down in the past 12 to 18 months. Years ago, you know, probably up until 2021, even early 2022, you could it, I mean, you could make a post and someone would find their way into your dms and say, I'm gonna buy your coaching program. I wanna pay in full 10 K right now. Like, it was so easy to get clients like that. I remember doing launches inside my Facebook group. I would do live launches every six to eight weeks. I could have a six figure launch. Wasn't too difficult. My Facebook group, you know, didn't have tens of thousands of people in it.\[00:34:00\] Some of those people were cold, some of those people I had a relationship with. But a multiple four or five figure investment. Not uncommon, uh, not uncommon for people to be in multiple coaching programs and or masterminds at the same time, you know, in a calendar year. I would say investing in coaching and masterminds for most educators and experts and coaches is probably their largest business expense. It's getting co It was mine. I mean, mine was 70 to $75,000 a year. I was putting towards that. Um, I'm not even spending that, I'm not even investing that much a year in coaching anymore. I mean, like, not even half of that anymore. So it's not that people aren't investing, and here's what we all need to understand. People are still buying and people are still buying every day. They're just buying differently than they were. Well, what do we mean by that? By psychology has changed. Um, especially in the coaching space. A lot of the people we're selling to, it's \[00:35:00\] not the first time they've ever purchased a course, a subscription, a coaching program, one-on-one or a mastermind or an event or something, and got burned. So we're dealing with a lot of people who spent money on something that was great marketing, and then they don't feel like the experience was as great as the marketing experience was. So you're dealing with that, uh, you're dealing with people, you know, whatever message people are listening to about what's going on in the world, the economy, if they're afraid, if they wanna hang on to their money a little bit longer, whatever the case, inflation, other things have gotten more expensive. So do people have as much expendable income as they did before? If they don't, again, it doesn't mean, I mean, people are buying every single day. We're all consumers are all buying stuff. And just look at Amazon, like half the people listening to this are probably buying something from Amazon two or three times a week. So we need to understand that and people are vetting us longer, right? So earlier I said people need to now consume us for five to 10 hours before they buy. \[00:36:00\] Well, if we're relying on our social media posts and our reels and our social media stories to do all of that, it's gonna take a really long time for read to read enough posts or watch enough seven second reels to consume us for five to 10 hours. That used to work. A doesn't anymore. Especially if you're selling higher ticket. If you're selling higher ticket, like do not think for a second that your Instagram is gonna sell your high ticket coaching anymore because it's not. Your Facebook posts not gonna sell it anymore. Um, so people are vetting longer. They are being a lot wiser about who they're paying attention to, and they wanna build a relationship with you at the free level first. They wanna see how you treat them at the free level. And then the thing that I have really shifted into, which I had never done this before, I, when I came back into the coaching scene in October, 2024. I kind of noticed and I felt, I was like, whoa, things are different. They are not the same as they were when I kind of exited the coaching space to go into \[00:37:00\] consulting in 2022. And it was, it was a feeling, I could feel it, I could sense it with some of the content I was putting out and I had to make some shifts. And you know, I sold my beta group coaching program, which was great, and I did it at a beta price. But after that I thought, you know, I probably need to come up with something that is a no-brainer offer for people, that they don't have to think twice about the money to invest because I've gotta get them again to using your language. I've gotta get them through the front door. I've gotta get them in the front door. I've gotta get them paying something and coming to something where they put down money so that they can see if they, not just like me, but do they like my style? Can they learn from me? Are they getting results? Are they making progress? Do they like the way I function and work behind the paywall? Um, is this a good fit for them? And people are just not gonna drop $10,000 to figure that out anymore. So I did come up with a very, very low ticket offer for the very first time \[00:38:00\] ever. It is, there's a very wide, uh, price to, uh, value gap. Uh, there's a lot of live interface because I wanna build a relationship with people and I can, I can also say this has only been going on about five weeks. Within the first week, I had people who were messaging me saying, I don't care what you have next, but I'm saying yes to it. Megan: I've had people, I've reactivated past clients that worked with me 5, 6, 7 years ago. Some of my beta group coaching clients joined this. Within the first week of some people being in, they were already bringing referrals in. I think six out of the 42 people are referrals. I had people hear me on a podcast episode as a guest, somehow find their way to my Facebook group, watch one video, and in five minutes make a purchase. Megan: Uh, so I'm sharing that because that kind of your, your front door offer, \[00:39:00\] if you will, that's a no-brainer, almost impulse of a buy that you're just like knocking the, this is not a self-study program. It's like knocking the socks off of people and it's, you know, it's helping people plug into a system that they can do and they can make very early progress and they can get very quick wins. And it's this introduction to your body of work. If you can like just crush that. The likelihood of those people continuing to work with you in your mid and high ticket offers. It just goes up. So what you're essentially doing is you're, you're building this, this buyer group, and so then you're doing more internal selling to those group of people. The cool thing is it's something that your past clients can say yes to. Your current clients can say yes to. Your alumni can say yes to. It's easy for referrals to come in. It's easy for new people to come in. It's an easy first step into your world at the paid level. That's the thing that I think people really have to innovate and adapt to. If you're still stuck \[00:40:00\] on only selling people into your high ticket, it's just become a bit of a slog. There's a lot of heavy lifting to get the same or fewer numbers into that type of offer in today's world. So I would encourage everybody to think, don't get rid of your mid and high ticket offers. What is something that you could create that is lower ticket that people can say yes to? That is your front door offer. I call it the hero offer. What's your hero offer? And you blow people away. You get them amazing results. You're very interfacing with them and they don't wanna leave. That's what I have kind of had to like, and I had to figure that out really fast. 'cause it was like, okay, my stuff is not gonna sell the way I thought it was, and it's not selling the way it was when I exited this world in 20 21, 22, 22. Megan: And so that's, that's what I did. Um, but look, I, it doesn't matter if you're making a hundred thousand dollars a year or $10 million a year, or a hundred million dollars a year, everybody at every level \[00:41:00\] has really felt the effects of people just are not buying our stuff, our high ticket stuff at the rate that they once were. But don't try to keep doing what you did in the past because it's not working today. Kris: Hmm, yes. That that is the truth. Tell, tell us a little bit more about this low ticket offer. Like when you talk about a low ticket offer, what is yours and what's the price point? Megan: So I started mine out, so this was end of April, 2025. Uh, and I think it would be helpful if I told people how I came up with it too. So I'd love to Megan: Yeah. Hi. You know, the other thing that's really important is you have to listen to your market, right? The marketplace is who tells us what they want, what they need, and what they're gonna pay for. So what I mean by that is use the market to, and use your audience, use your community to validate the offer. So what, I'll tell you what I didn't do. I didn't sit here to try to squeeze out of my own mind. What do I need to create \[00:42:00\] that's low ticket. I did not do that. That was not part of the process. I started paying attention to and really thinking about like when I was in the shower or on a walk or in the car, what is the, what was the reason why so many of my clients in the past when I was teaching them how to create and launch and fill group coaching programs, why did so many of them either A, never launch the program or B, launch it and only get two to four people to join or launch it and do a pretty good launch, but they couldn't repeat that success. And so I really got, um, super tuned into what's the biggest problem. I'm not solving, I think I'm teaching them everything I need to teach them, but there's something I'm missing as a, as a leader and a teacher that's not helping them get over that obstacle. And so I thought, okay, well what did I do to always fill my programs year after year after year? I had a Facebook group. I had a community. I had a, I built a place where I was a generous expert and I poured into those \[00:43:00\] people and I did all the things I've already shared in our episode today. So I thought, that's it. I have got to help people build a community because that really is the foundation of being able to fill your one to many programs. You don't have a community, you're not filling those programs over and over and over again consistently. So I thought I have to solve for that. So I was thinking, what's the problem before the problem that I'm solving? So I thought I was solving how do people transition from one-on-one to a group. But what I found was nobody has a community to sell, to sell. And everybody's just trying to sell on social media to this random audience of people, and you don't even know who they are or if they want what you have or if they're the right ideal client or not. Like who cares that you have 200,000 Instagram followers? Are they your client? They have a, are they your ideal client? Do they have a relationship with you? And the answer is no. Um, so I kind of like discovered that I had already been talking about this concept of community and I really believe we're heading into more of a community driven \[00:44:00\] economy. I think our programs are turning into community powered programs. I think that marketing is kind of turning into this like build a buyer ready community. And not that that's necessarily some brand new concept. I just kind of put a spin on audience and I put two worlds together of coaching and community. And so all this was kind of in my mind and all my content had been about community, but I just hadn't quite gone all in on it the way we have been talking on this episode. So I made a couple of posts on my regular Facebook newsfeed that were all about my perspective on this whole community driven way of. Doing things. And I started identifying like, your problem is that you don't have a community to sell to or a community of people who are ready to buy from you, and that's why you can't sell your stuff. And I made maybe three posts and it got a huge traction. And so I thought, okay, I'm gonna get on that wave. Then I was like, I'm gonna do a live stream on that topic and do it inside \[00:45:00\] my Facebook group. And so I promoted my livestream for 24 hours outside my Facebook group and had 50 new people join my Facebook group just to get access to that particular topic. Wow. Okay. So then it's like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You know, people want this. So that's where I think we get really tripped up with creating offers is we think we have to come up with something. Just let people tell you what they want, what are they responding to? Just pay attention to that and be very willing to test things out and test really, really fast and pivot if people aren't, if there's no traction. So when that happened, I thought, okay. This is my opportunity. I need to put a price tag on this offer. I need to like kind of figure out what, what is this offer even going to be? I knew what problem I was gonna solve it. Like how am I delivering it? How long is it? What price point is it? Megan: And I also know that speed is very, very important. So I thought, I'm gonna do a 60 day sprint. I'm gonna call it super community and I'm gonna charge $97 because I don't want people to have to think twice about joining this \[00:46:00\] because I am playing the long game. I'm, I wasn't trying to make a bunch of, I'm not, you're not making a bunch of money off $97. Right. Eventually, maybe when you have 2000 people in that. But I knew that those people would then go to the next level. Even half, if half of them went to the next level. Like that's amazing for long-term monthly recurrent revenue. So I created nothing. I had a two page Google doc that was a sales page. I created a checkout link on Stripe. I put it on the Google Doc. I did that livestream and I thought, I'm gonna make the offer. There was nothing created for me to deliver. This was, I don't even know what it was, sometime in April and I made the offer and seven people purchased it, so I validated the offer. So then it's like, okay, seven people and seven people purchased, took about 32 hours, seven people purchased. And then I thought, okay, now I need to create it. So I gave myself a week and a half or two weeks and I said, we're gonna start on May 1st. So I needed to go create some modules and record some videos. Not the whole \[00:47:00\] thing. Just enough for them to get started. And I kept selling, kept selling, and now we have 42 people. Wow. So you just have to ride the wave. You've just gotta figure it out, validate it, and then ride the wave. Now I actually just decided the other day, yesterday, the day before, um, because now that I've worked with people for 30 days. I've changed. So, and I'm sharing this because whatever you create at first and whatever you decide, you can change it up. You can innovate and adapt and it's your business. You can do whatever you want. So now knowing what I know about how that program is going, and there, there's a live call three days a week. I have a q and a call, a training call, and a coworking session. There's videos, there's templates, there's DM scripts, like everything you need to reignite your Facebook group. People love it. I don't have a separate Facebook group for them. They're in my main free Facebook group. There's a whole strategy behind that as well. It creates a whole lot of social proof for everybody who hasn't purchased that front door offer. I call it the hero \[00:48:00\] offer, and now I'm turning it into a monthly subscription for $59 a month. You can cancel anytime you want because I was having a conversation with another colleague of mine that has 200 people and a $25,000 mastermind in the real estate investing world. One of the things he said, I was at a, I was at a dinner gathering with a group of people and he said, you wanna take your people off the market? Take them off the market and keep them off the market. And what he meant by that is sell programs to them where they don't have to like be done with your program really quick. And that kind of stuck with me. This was probably three weeks ago. And so I thought, okay, if my program is only 60 days, then I'm kind of like sending people on their way after 60 days, or I'm gonna have to get them to renew and I have to resell them and I don't wanna do that. So then I thought, I'm just gonna change the price and I'm gonna make it subscription. And they're there every month. And then you can do internal launches and, and ascend them up. So again, I know $59 or \[00:49:00\] $97 it sounds like so little money, but you've gotta really understand, like you have to build trust with people. The number of reviews you could be getting from people at that level. The number of people that are now already paying from you. Like, who's the best person to buy from you today? It's the person who bought from you yesterday. Mm-hmm. You know, so we just need to be really smart about, uh, what we're doing inside of our businesses and not worry like, Ooh, I don't wanna be seen as low ticket. I don't care anymore. I, 'cause I used to only be high ticket. Everything was, everything I sold before now has been between 5,000 and a hundred thousand dollars my whole career, except in the very beginning in 2011 when I didn't know what I was doing. So to go from super high ticket to that, you, you can't have an ego in it. You really gotta be playing the long game, uh, with your business. Kris: Yeah. And really meet people where they are with what they need. Like, that's the beautiful thing of this evolution that, that you've walked through, is you've continually like. \[00:50:00\] Tested with your community and checked in and followed the things that are working, and you found yourself with a lower ticket offer that's really working, that's helping support your higher ticket. So what a, what a beautiful ecosystem that you've Yeah. Cultivated. Yeah. That's, Megan: and you don't have to get on hour long sales calls. Megan: for that price point, what's doing the selling? It's, you know, you're building this community, they're seeing how you interact with people. You're doing your live streams, you're doing your posts, you're making your offers. Megan: Every once in a while I'll have somebody who does have three or four questions, and the number one question I get with anyone who does have a question is, how much time am I gonna have to spend to actually do this? It's the number one objection that I hear when I hear one, which I hear from about 10% of the people. Megan: don't have to overcome the money. Objection. And here's the other thing too. I don't think we've said this, this episode, and this is very important, that offer, yes, it's low ticket, but it's not a down \[00:51:00\] sell. And it is not for people who cannot afford your mid to high ticket offer. You are strategically creating an offer that is for the people at the mid and high ticket for your mid and high ticket offer, right? Because the whole goal is to get them such great results and get them making progress and building that foundation you need them to have so that they're successful in your mid or high ticket offer. It. You're defeating the purpose if you're just creating a low ticket offer for the sake of creating a low ticket offer for the people in your audience who can't afford your high ticket. That's not what we're doing here. Megan: again, I said this earlier, but, and I, I actually had this group share in a Zoom chat that we did, uh, the other day. I. What's the relationship each of you have with me? Are you a past client? Were you a current client? Did you come in through a referral? Did you meet me five minutes ago? Have you been watching me for eight years? I have peers and colleagues joining the program. Like literally, like people who are more successful than me are inside the program. Megan: That's what you're building. It's this, it's \[00:52:00\] like the offer itself is almost this whole ecosystem that just brings all different kinds of people in who've worked with you in different ways, or have a relationship with you in different ways. Mm-hmm. That's the beauty of it. And then that basically is fueling your other offers. Kris: Right. Low ticket does not compete with your higher ticket. It doesn't replace or compete. It actually prepares them for the mid level and the high level. Megan: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people are afraid that that lower ticket offer is gonna cannibalize their mid to high ticket offer. But it's not. So remember what we keep saying? Solve one problem, help them get one solution. What's the main offer? Super community only solves one problem and it only helps people get one result. But I like, I'm not teaching the other 10 marketing strategies that I implement in my business. Like the only thing I do, I do more than just a Facebook group. You have to, I'm not teaching all those strategies. I'm not teaching how I fill my programs. I'm not \[00:53:00\] teaching how to create a group coaching program. I'm not teaching how to make your first hire, build a team. I'm not teaching any of that. I'm not really teaching offer creation, except I did just teach what's a hero offer and you should create one too. But, you know, there's so many other things that I can and do teach, uh, that you get all that if you wanna continue working together at a different level with a, you know, a closer proximity, more accountability, more value. Kris: Tell, tell us the story. We're, we're wrapping up here, but I wanna hear a story about a client who went through this process with you and what kind of results did they get? Megan: Yes. So I am thinking of a client that had a six month mastermind style offer and when she initially created the offer last year, so early 2024, I believe her starting price point was \[00:54:00\] around $15,000. And then eventually it went up to, I believe, $20,000. And then most recently, and she did find selling that, and she is a bigger Instagram user, so a lot of that was coming through Instagram and a few masterclasses here and there. Then either towards the end of last year, the very beginning of this year, she increased the price again to $30,000. And suddenly, uh, it must have been the end of last year thing, like what she was doing and the strategies she was implementing, it was no longer converting. That particular mastermind was no longer converting. We could argue that, well, she, she raised the price by 10 slash $15,000 over a relatively short period of time. It's just too expensive. And I actually don't think that things are just like too expensive. I think that's just like an easy cop out. Yeah. So she was revealing this to me and starting to freak out a little bit, and so I said, you know, you really ought to think about building \[00:55:00\] a hero offer. She says, well, what's a hero offer? So I explained that to her, and this showcases the necessity to act in speed. Um, at the time of our recording on June the third. We had this conversation about 10 days ago, 10 days ago. So she figures out what her hero offer is going to be, and she came up with a membership. I didn't really help her figure out what her offer was. She came up with that, a membership subscription model. You can cancel any time, $97 a month. She's gonna do a founding members round. She wants 30 people in as founding members. Then she's gonna, she's gonna raise the price to 2 97 a month. Fine. Do whatever you want. She pulls together a masterclass, a 60 minute masterclass that she did maybe three days after we had that conversation and did it on a Monday. By Friday, she had 33 people into her hero offer. 33 people. Now again, some people may have the argument, \[00:56:00\] well, $97 times 33 is not a whole lot of money. That's not the way to look at this, though. She had clients who had done her mastermind, who did not renew, but they bought the hero offer. She had people who are currently in her mastermind who bought the hero offer. She had ideal clients who have never purchased from her, who bought the hero offer. So what's going to happen is she now has 33 buyers who she's now going to build a relationship with, get them great results, and then a percentage of those people will now more easily upgrade into her $30,000 offer. They are the exact same avatar. Time will tell, you know, some people are gonna be ready to upgrade in two weeks. Some people will be ready to upgrade in two months, some it's gonna take six months. Mm-hmm. It doesn't really matter. And now she has something that she could literally figure out how to sell every single day. So if she made a sale every single day. Between now and the end of the \[00:57:00\] year, she's gonna end up with well over 150 clients who are great candidates for the 30,000 offer. Now, how many of those does she really need to upgrade into the $30,000 offer to even go make a million dollars? Megan: So, yeah. Yeah. I mean it just, it's just what the marketplace we have, you said it too, we have to pay attention to what the marketplace is saying yes to, rather than fighting like, no, I'm gonna just hold onto my high ticket. But what if the exact same avatar would pay you 97 bucks a month? And maybe they need to build that relationship with you first. Maybe they need you to prove that you can actually help them get results before they make another $30,000 purchase that they made two years ago that didn't pan out very well. Kris: Oh my gosh. This has been such a wealth of information, and I know my listeners are just gobbling it up. So tell us where we can find you. Megan: Yeah, so I'd say the two best places. Number one, it's my Facebook group community, which \[00:58:00\] is called Structured Freedom Inc. Um, that is for, and then it'll say after that coaches, course creators and service providers. That's all in the name of the group. So that's kind of the hub. That's where all the magic happens in my world. And the other place, if you're listening to this podcast, you probably like podcasts. And Kris is also on the Built to Last show. Uh, so I have a podcast called Built to Last, and that's another really great place to get, you know, resources and uh, access to all the wonderful things about community and, and great other experts that I interview over there. Kris: And if you could leave us with one bit of advice before we hop off, what would that be? Megan: Ah, go build a community. Go build a community. Stop looking at people like they are an audience. It's just a simple mindset shift. Stop building an audience and start building a community. And if it's not, if it's, it doesn't have to be in a Facebook group, right? Like that's just the avenue I chose. Um, if it's a LinkedIn group, if it's a podcast community, if it's an email list community, it doesn't matter where, if it's a Substep community, \[00:59:00\] it doesn't matter. Go build community because people want to feel like they belong somewhere. Build a place where people can come and belong and you will never, ever, ever run out of just using like industry language leads, prospects, and clients. Kris: And it also will continue to reenergize you and remind you like, wow, this is important work. I'm helping people. And that, that feels good on both ends. So thank you so much for your time today. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/4-part-website-formula-clients-say-yes-storybrand ### Title: The 4-Part Website Formula That Makes Your Clients Say "Yes" ### Page ID: 7751416 ### Content: The 4-Part Website Formula That Makes Your Clients Say "Yes" Here's what I know about you: You're incredible at what you do. Your clients get amazing results. But your website? It's probably not doing you any favors. Most service providers I talk to have websites that look professional but feel... flat. Visitors come, they scroll, they leave. Sound familiar? In this week's episode, I break down the 4-part website formula that changes everything. ? Why starting with their problem (not your credentials) hooks them instantly. ? The success section that makes them think "this is exactly what I need." ? How to position yourself as the guide without sounding braggy. The truth is, your website should be working like your best sales employee—building trust, creating connection, and getting people excited to work with you before they ever book a call. When you get this formula right, potential clients show up to discovery calls already convinced you're the one to help them. (Yes, really! ?) Ready to stop losing dream clients to a website that doesn't know how to sell? The 4-Part Website Formula That Makes Your Clients Say "Yes" CTC Ep. 42 | The 4-Part Website Formula That Makes Your Clients Say "Yes" Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Speaker: Hello there. Today we are gonna talk about how to turn your website into a client generating machine using the StoryBrand strategy. Your website should act as your top sales employee, and if it is not doing its job, I'm gonna break down the exact structure I use to fix that for good. I get the same questions over and over again. So I'm just going to answer them here for you today, and we're gonna keep it real casual. So let's go, number one. Is the problem. So every story, every book, every movie you've ever seen begins with a hero that has a problem. That means it begins. We need to begin our communication \[00:01:00\] with your hero's problem, meaning your client's problem. So we always wanna start that way. That's how we kind of hook them in and get them engaged in the story. And the reason we do that is because when we articulate their problem really well, they feel seen, they feel heard, they feel not alone in their struggle, and most importantly, they feel like you are the best one to fix it. If you are in their head and you understand them so well, then you are obviously the best one to solve the problem for them. So people think that they're gonna hire you to solve an external problem, meaning their, let's say their business isn't profitable or they, uh, they're not healthy, they're overweight. Um. Whatever the problem is, right? They think they're hiring you because of an external problem. They're actually gonna hire you based on an internal problem, meaning an emotion. people buy. \[00:02:00\] Based on emotions and they justify it with, credentials. facts, figures, external problems. But the real reason that they're gonna wanna hire you is because of an internal problem, which is it could be, um. Self-doubt. It could be shame, it could be frustration, it could be times running out. Um, there's all kinds of internal struggles that people have, emotions that they have that they want to not have anymore, and they're working with you to be able to overcome. one of the questions I get a lot is, what is the number one mistake most websites make when it comes to naming their problem? And the answer to this is just being too vague. Just being too vague, and maybe hitting those external problems, but not the internal problems, not the emotions underneath that external problem. So we want them to. Really feel like we're in their head. And \[00:03:00\] one of the mistakes that happens a lot is that as a coach or consultant, we know what the real problem is. they might come to us talking about a problem that they're having and we might be able to identify, oh, I hear that problem. But underneath that is a different problem because, you know, you've solved this problem. Many times before. so. What? The reason I'm sharing that with you is because we wanna articulate their problem in their words, the problem that they think they have. Even if we know differently, we wanna meet them right where they are and talk to them in the language they use. And so the question I ask to kind of pull this information out of you is when you get on a call with a potential client, what are they complaining about? What are they griping about? What are they frustrated by? And you can even go back to discovery calls that you've had and try and pull out the actual language that that they're using when \[00:04:00\] they talk to you. the other question I get is how do you know if you're only scratching the surface? And you know that because you are talking about external problems. So things that are happening in the 3D world and not more in internal emotions. It's good to talk about both, but you, you really want to connect with them on an emotional level because that's really what's gonna drive their ultimate decision to wanna work with you. So once we've articulated their problem, we, we've shown them that they matter to us, that we care, that they are the central figure in this story. And they're nodding their head, yeah, this is the problem. Yeah, this is my reality, that this is just the way it is. And when we communicate their problem well, when we articulate it really clearly, they really feel like they're not alone in their problem anymore. They feel like somebody really gets them. So they're nodding their head. They're fully engaged, they're reminded about. How frustrating this problem \[00:05:00\] is. And they're reminded that they're, they're, they've been stuck with this problem for longer than, than they'd like probably years. And they're nodding their head going, yeah, this is just the way it is. And so the section following that is what I call the. Success section, and This is your opportunity to really put your stake in the ground around what you believe. So I like to lead this section with a philosophical statement, that when I say philosophical statement, what I mean is that you're putting your stake in the ground around what you believe to. To be true what you believe they deserve. This is often like, this is right, this is wrong. It's just plain wrong. That fill in the blank, right? So, I'm going to share some examples with you of a client that I recently worked with. Her name's Andrea. And she is an infidelity coach and she works with women mostly. She does work with some \[00:06:00\] men, but she typically works with women who have been cheated on and they're trying to figure out what to do. What is their next step gonna be? Are they gonna stay, are they gonna go? How are they gonna rebuild their life? Um, either way. And so. FF for an example. Um, the problem section for her begins with the overarching problem, which is be betrayed. Women often lose trust in their intuition because they were intentionally deceived. So this is really a fact, right? I mean. We stated it as a fact, and this is because this is the theme that she witnesses over and over and over again. Betrayed women often lose trust in their intuition because they were intentionally deceived. So we began with that big overarching problem, and then we follow it up with a handful of bullets underneath that Our brains love bullets because they can quickly be stand without loading us up with a lot of \[00:07:00\] copy to sift through and read. Our brains love bullets, so use them as much as possible. In the problem section, you can have three to five bullets just going deeper into the problem. So, for Andrea, we've got, are you struggling with intense emotions that cycle between anger, blame, embarrassment, and shame? Are you struggling with indecision about your relationship and its future? Are you struggling with the inability to trust your own judgment or intuition? And we go into a couple more. but that gives you a little taste of what this actually looks like. So, like I said, they're nodding their head, yep, this is my real reality. This, this is just the way it is. And so then we wanna move from here into that success section, and We wanna begin that with a philosophical statement. So for Andrea, that statement is, I believe this crisis is a doorway to becoming exactly who you were meant to be. And this is really her stating what she believes to \[00:08:00\] be true. This statement can also work. When it starts out with, you deserve, fill in the blank, right? So these are overarching philosophical statements around what you believe or what you believe they deserve. And then what we wanna do is follow that with success. And when I talk about success, I'm really talking about. What is their life gonna be like after they've worked with you? Not during, but after. And I want you to like imagine this journey that they're going on up, up a mountain, right? So what is at the peak of the mountain for them? What is. The best of the best possible thing that they could hope for. And your job as the guide is to remind them of what is possible for their life. They've been, they've been stuck marinating in this problem for a long time, and it's your job to point up to the peak of that mountain and remind them of what is possible. So for \[00:09:00\] example, for Andrea, we've got Rebuild self-trust. Find emotional stability and make clear decisions. And then I have a little bit of a description underneath each of those, but those are the three kind of pie in the sky. This is what her client wants more than anything. The biggest mistake here that I see a lot is that coaches and consultants fill this section with features. Features of working with them, like features of what they offer for their clients, and. I wanna remind you that features are very different than success, and this section in particular. We really wanna lean into success and not features because features are about you and we're not quite ready to talk about you yet. we haven't fully earned the right to step into this story as the guide yet. \[00:10:00\] Um, but that is coming soon. first. We really wanna connect with them and we really want to establish a resonance with them. And we do that by beginning with the problem that they're struggling with in their words, and then following that with pie in the sky, reminding them what is possible for their life and what their life is gonna look like After they've worked with you. And I want you to get detailed and granular here. Again, we wanna lean into those emotions that, that they're gonna be able to feel after they have solved this problem. So what you are doing here by talking all about them at the beginning of your website is showing them that they are the central figure of your story. That they matter, their struggles and their success matters more to you then me and my wonderful way of solving this problem. So we wanna really help them feel seen, heard, even hugged, like even held on this page. And we do that by talking about them first and foremost. So when they \[00:11:00\] come to your website, their, their brain's asking three things. What's in it for me? What's in it for me? And what's in it for me? And that's why we very early on show them what's possible and what's gonna happen for them once they work with us. Once you do that, you've got those two sections up top. Now you have finally earned the right to step into this story as the guide,Now, here's where a lot of coaches mess up. They make their website all about themselves. And so as you can tell, StoryBrand really flips that around. So your website is really about your client, and then about a third of the way through the page, you step in. As the guide right around that time is when it's okay to start talking about yourself and. This is true for even if you watch a movie, a third of the way through the guide enters in. Same thing for any book that you've ever read. Same thing for your, your messaging for your \[00:12:00\] business and your website in particular. So at this point, we've talked about the problem. We've talked to the about the success. Now it's your time to enter into the story as the guide. True guides do not need to brag or boast. You do not need to lay it on thick with all the certifications and qualifications that you have. those do matter, but they matter much less than you probably think that they do. true guides are so confident in what they do. And they have such empathy for their hero because many of us as guides have been through that journey that our clients have, have been through. We've been on that path and we've come out the other side, and now we're helping other people do that. So. The best guides don't brag or boast. They show up with pure and total empathy. And this can be so simple, it doesn't have to be \[00:13:00\] complicated. for Andrea, the example that I have to share today is this is her stepping into this story as a guide. The headline is, I get it. Navigating the aftermath of betrayal is intense, and that says it all. When you lead with empathy, you step in with such confidence that people don't even need to know your qualifications honestly. Um, it's so powerful to lead with empathy as a guide and so. After this headline, we go into a little bit of a narrative around Andrea and. what she knows about her clients and this overarching struggle and the way to solve it and how she has navigated this path herself, and also how she is different from everybody else. Another question people are asking when they come to your website is, how are you different than the next person? So we really want to make sure that the guide section highlights All the ways in which you're \[00:14:00\] different and why this matters to you so much. Why does this work matter to you so much that you've dedicated your life to helping your clients solve their problem? Okay. Before I wrap up this section, I want to answer this question that I get a lot, which is, how do you balance empathy and authority? And the truth is, you lead with empathy. Empathy is gonna get you way farther than bragging about your qualifications and certifications. I do wanna share though that your authority is important. It just doesn't need to take up a bunch of real estate on the page. So I have a section for this, for your certifications, for your years of experience, for your education, the number of clients that you've worked with. There's all kinds of ways to build authority. And I keep this section very short and narrow. It doesn't take up hardly any room on the page, but it allows the visitor to really \[00:15:00\] check that box in their brain that you know what you're talking about. So that's how I weave in the authority. I lead with empathy and then I follow that section up with a very short, narrow section with just three. Little bits of information that speak to your experience. Okay After the guide section, so you've stepped into this narrative as the guide, and one of the most important things that you can do as the guide is to give your hero a three step plan. The plan is so very important because without it, you're asking the visitor to click on a call to action. Which they don't know where that's going to, right? You're asking them to take a, a step forward, in essence, blindly jumping off of a cliff. That's what you're asking them to do, with just a blanket call to action throughout the page. So what the plan really does is it calms their nervous system and it shows them step one. Step one is always to \[00:16:00\] click on that call to action. Step two is always about engaging in work with you, and step three is always the happy end result. Our brains really wanna know where is the carrot at the end of this journey? When am I gonna reach the, the end result, that happy end result. And so when we include the result, step three of your three step plan, you're just reassuring them there is, there is an end in sight and this is the way we navigate the path. one of the things that's important to know is that. We are building trust throughout the page by talking about their problem, by showing them what's possible. By stepping in as the guide with empathy and authority, we're really building a lot of trust. And once that trust is built and that resonance is established and that connection is made. Really, your hero is ready to take the next step. They need \[00:17:00\] a clear path forward. And so that's why the plan is such an important thing to include just after the guide section that we talked about. And the plan really needs to be ridiculously simple. We do not wanna overwhelm people. They're already overwhelmed. And if your plan is. Eight steps long, they're gonna think, oh my gosh, this is too complicated. I don't have the bandwidth for this right now. So the plan really needs to be three steps max. And of course we know once you get into working with somebody, there's more than three steps in the journey. But we wanna take a 30,000 foot foot view of the plan here and just break it down into three simple steps. So step one, always gonna be your call to action. For most of my clients, this is book a call. Book a discovery call. Book a money making messaging call. Book a clarity call. Whatever you wanna call. Your call infuse the benefit into it. \[00:18:00\] So step one is always gonna be your call to action. Step two is always going to be about engaging with you in whichever way you engage with your clients. And then step three of your plan is the happy end result. The, the mistake that I witnessed the most around the plan is, number one, there is no plan. You're just asking your potential clients to click on a call to action without telling them what to expect. And then the other mistake a lot of people make is that they don't make step three of their plan, that happy end result. And so the brain is left with more questions, like it might be step one, book a discovery call. Step two will, fill out the intake. three, get started. Um, that might be true, but it doesn't reassure my brain that there is a happy end result at the end of this engagement. So we just wanna really \[00:19:00\] make sure that we set up our three step plan in, in a way that is really gonna work with our visitors' brains. All right. We have covered a lot today. I hope this has been helpful. I'm going to continue this series for one more episode because we have a few more sections to cover, but I don't wanna overload you with too much information. Kris: So hopefully this has been helpful and if you need any help with this kind of stuff, don't hesitate to reach out and book a call with me. Alright, thank you. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/why-brain-wired-procrastinate-3-ways-override-robin-emdon ### Title: Why Your Brain is Wired to Procrastinate + 3 Ways to Override It with Robin J. Emdon ### Page ID: 7781969 ### Content: Why Your Brain is Wired to Procrastinate + 3 Ways to Override It with Robin J. Emdon Have you ever spent an entire day organizing your desk, doing laundry, and cleaning out email folders—anything except the one important project sitting on your to-do list? I used to think this made me broken. Turns out, my brain was just doing its job. In my latest podcast episode, I talked with Robin J. Emdon, who spent five years studying over 900 research papers on procrastination. What he discovered will completely change how you think about productivity. ? Here's the truth: **Your brain is hardwired to procrastinate.** It's not a character flaw—it's your limbic system's ancient survival response kicking in when it perceives a "threat." Robin breaks down the fascinating science behind this and shares his **productivity trifecta**—three specific neurotransmitters your brain needs to naturally enter deep focus mode: ? Dopamine (the conductor) - organizing your mental orchestra ? Acetylcholine (the scholar) - creating laser-sharp focus ⚡ Norepinephrine (the fun-sized warrior) - adding just enough productive stress The best part? Robin discovered that **simple accountability increases goal achievement by 33%.** Not complicated systems or endless apps—just one person checking in with you regularly. This conversation gave me so much compassion for my own procrastination patterns and practical tools to work with my brain instead of against it. Why Your Brain is Wired to Procrastinate + 3 Ways to Override It with Robin J. Emdon CTC Ep. 43 | Why Your Brain is Wired to Procrastinate + 3 Ways to Override It with Robin J. Emdon Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Hello, meet Robin Emdon, creator of GI Results ology. And after taking 10 years to finish a six year degree, Robin discovered the science behind follow through and he now helps solopreneurs achieve 33% more of their monthly goals. Robin, welcome. I am so thrilled to have you here today. I It was so kind of you to ask me. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. Kris: So tell us a little bit about yourself. Like how did you get to get into doing this work that you're doing? Robin: Okay. Well, I might as well start at the, at start, at the end. Really, I, I, I realized that I am a chronic \[00:01:00\] procrastinator. And now that, you know, that might sound like a Oh, really? You know, so well, in 2001, I trained in California, although I'm British. I trained in California under the chage of Tony Robbins and his organization to be a life coach. So, um, you know, it isn't exactly congruent with being a life coach, that you wake up one day and you realize that you're a chronic procrastinator. And in fact, that one day was not for like 18, 19, 20 years. When I was bragging to my older brother that I just got my degree, I was having a coffee with him in a coffee shop, and I was bragging to him in 2019, I've got my degree onto I Brilliant. Yay. Yeah. Yay. And my brother was like, oh, I'm so bored. Can we go? And I was like, oh no, I know you can't. You can never impress your siblings, can you? So. So I thought, oh, I know, I'll tell him, trust me to take 10 years to do something I've done in, I should have done in six, which you kindly mentioned in the introduction. And he was like, yeah, what was that about? And I said, oh, you know, procrastination. And I laughed and he laughed. And then we changed the subject. Well then I got to thinking about it driving home. I \[00:02:00\] thought, wait a minute, Emdon, you are a coach. You are a trained life coach. How dare you procrastinate? How very dare you? And you know, I thought, I've gotta square that circle. That makes no sense at all. And I, I had a realization I had, it was like a face palm moment, and I thought, wow, I've never really thought about it before. I, I, I've always thought of procrastination in the same way that I used to think about a common cold before the age of COVID when every sniffle is a suspicious wor and, and quite worrying. Most of us just work through cold. Oh, I've got a cold. I'll be all right in a few days. Don't worry about it. I'll be okay. It's a nuisance. It's uncomfortable and we get over it. That's how I thought about procrastination, Kris. And it was just like, wait a minute. What the heck is going on here? Because I used to just say, oh, you know, I've got procrastination. Oh, I'll be all right tomorrow. Hello. Isn't that the procrastinator's mantra? I'll do it tomorrow. Right. So I got, that's what I, that's my background. I, I, I, my background is I. By, by 2019, I'd been concentrating on getting my degree. I was working from home, but \[00:03:00\] I wasn't doing coaching. I was doing online marketing. And, uh, I, I'd put the coaching down a few years earlier to concentrate on being a full-time single father. And I just didn't wanna do the coaching at the same time. And, um, and so by 2019, you know, I, I didn't have any connections in the industry. I had no thought about becoming a coach again. But as I started researching. Because I couldn't think of the answer. I thought all those dozens and dozens and dozens of days. I trained with Tony Robbins about a hundred in total, including the coaching training at the end of it all, and, and my brother was used at that time as a mental health professional and he couldn't quite put his finger on it. And I thought, oh, it must be obvious what the answer is. And so here I am, five years on, I decided to, I used the gift that keeps on giving COVID and all the lockdowns, and I decided to research and I realized. Straight. I very quickly found out that in one 10 year period, by way of an example, in the early two thousands, they'd done over 10 years worth of res uh, sorry. They'd done over 900 projects in that 10 \[00:04:00\] year period. Sorry, little brain, um, gas there. But I just, I thought, well, I don't need to research it, but I need to translate it into English. My degree was in arts and humanities. I'm not a scientist. Mm-hmm. I don't, I don't do science. It's in one ear and out the other and, and nothing connects. Robin: But I can, I can understand it in the moment and then it's like, well, how do I translate this into what I call English? You know, as in Right. Can I understand it? And can you metabolize it? Right. Can you absorb it into your knowing whether it's your brain, your body, or both? Um, yeah. How do you do that? Well, absolutely. Well, the first thing that that, that I discovered was that procrastination is an inside job. We're hardwired to procrastination and it begins in the limbic system. Now I'm already, my eyes are glazing over 'cause I'm like, well, what the heck's the limbic system? Well, most people will know or could easily find out. The limbic system is the most primitive part of your brain. It's where a. Our most basic instincts reside. It's where the fight, fight, or \[00:05:00\] flee response is triggered and it's an automatic system. And if you think about it, your human brain, I've got one, you've got one, we've all got one. Whatever is all about two things. Number one, survival. Everything in our life is about how do we survive, and number two, procreation, survival of the species. Everything else, all the recreation that we do, all the jobs that we do, all the, everything that we do with our lives. Is incidental to those two primary purposes that your brain is hardwired to create. And in that mix, I re, the, I I discovered the science was pointing out the, the neurology. Robin: Um, and the psychology. That procrastination is actually hardwired into the brain. It's part of our flight or fight or freeze response. So it's, it's programmed hard where it's hardwired in our brain to procrastinate. Right? Is that what \[00:06:00\] you're saying? Like, we are wired to procrastinate, so we have to kind of override that limbic system to get unstuck. Is that Yeah. Am I hearing you right? Robin: I, yeah. I mean, what I'm hearing is the same as you, which is, wait a minute, which part of survival is procrastination, right? Right. Yeah. Well, it's the part that causes us, it's when we freeze. So think about it this way, if you were living in the wild and a man eating tiger was coming at you. Even though you might actually just want to get on with, you know, cooking your dinner, doing the washing, taking the kids to school. Mm-hmm. That man eating tiger is gonna kind of prevail right now there and then in the moment. Gotta deal with that. Gotta figure out what do I do. Well, you don't have time to figure it out. That's why we have a limbic system. Robin: The limbic system goes straight into survival mode. Do I fight it? Mm, probably not. Do I freeze? Hope that it doesn't notice me maybe. Or do I flee? Well, you can't really outrun a tiger, but if you put your trainers \[00:07:00\] on, you can outrun the person next to you. So that's probably a viable option, right? Well, in the 21st century, unless you happen to live where there are man eating tigers still prowling in the wild. Our equivalent of man eating tigers are bailiffs bad news in emails and through the post. Um, things that have been with us forever. Bad news about our friends and relatives, health issues, relat significant relationship issues with your significant other that just upsets you terribly. All of these things. Cause us to feel threatened. So the limbic system embodies the threat modality and when we are threatened, we close down and when we close down, we put off doing things that we don't wanna do and only focus on the things that are, that either we have to do because it's urgent. Because you know it's an emergency like an A man eating tiger running at you. Robin: Or it's just. The freeze response or the flea response is, oh, I've got this, um, \[00:08:00\] bill I can't pay. Hmm. I think I'll just park that and go and watch TV 'cause I don't wanna think about it. Robin: Oh, I've got this bad news about my, I can't pay the rent this month, or I've got this health issue, which I don't know how I'm gonna resolve it. It's keeping me awake at night with worry or my, my dear de my beloved has a health issue that's keeping me awake with worry. How do you deal with it? Mm-hmm. You shut down. You go into threat mode, this is a threat to your survival. Mm. If you think about it. Mm-hmm. Because you are feeling threatened. Mm-hmm. And when you are threatened, then you shut down. And we, we have a word for that. It's called fear and it's also called procrastination. Robin: procrastination and fear aren't always quite the same thing, but they, but procrastination is the threat modality. Fortunately there's a solution, but we haven't got there yet. Kris: So you studied 900 research papers on procrastination. What, what did you find the most shocking when you came into the other side of that research? Robin: Right. \[00:09:00\] Well, uh, let me, let me just clarify. I, I didn't study 900 papers. I discovered that there were over 900 papers in one 10 year period. Got it. I understand why that that will creep in. But what I did do was I, I, I looked for the common threads about the conclusions that were coming from those papers. And I went to the authority authors that had written their views on them. So I didn't go on, I didn't look at memes. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't look at other people, copying other people. I went to professors and academics and people. Mm-hmm. And, and also other coaches who are experienced, who had also looked at it. And I was looking for the common themes. I wanted to bring the threads, the common threads together. What, what was actually true. Mm-hmm. And what wasn't true. Because if you, if you do a search on the internet. On procrastination and or productivity, which is the antithesis of procrastination, you don't get a few hundred answers back. You get millions. Well, there's an awful lot of great information out there, but there's a lot of misinformation out there as well. And I wanted to sort the wheat from the chaff. Robin: And so what I did \[00:10:00\] was I looked for those common threads and then I, I pulled those together, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. Kris: There. There's another piece that I talk about a lot, which is from a messaging and marketing standpoint, um. Our brains are really wired to survive and thrive. And I think, you know, this overlaps a lot with what you're talking about. And when it comes to messaging, or for example, if somebody comes to your website and there's too much copy, our brain is trying to conserve calories. All the time, right. In order to survive. And so if we come across a document or a book or something that, that has a lot of information, our brains will literally turn off and say, we don't have the energy to digest this information anymore. We're gonna bail. Like this is not, this is not what we, we don't, we're not cut out for this today. Maybe tomorrow. Is, is that, um, is that idea similar to what you're talking about? Robin: Yeah. You're talking about \[00:11:00\] overwhelm. Yeah. Yeah. Overwhelm is a key trigger of procrastination. Yeah, yeah. Right. Absolutely. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. It's, it's it's threat modality. Again, the brain felt, you've described a situation where the brain, the brain feels threatened. It's too much things that are too difficult. We, whether that's true or not, the perception that something is too difficult, o overwhelm the i, this is why, you know, when we are organizing our day, some, some people will avoid the difficult tasks and do the easy stuff. Procrastination. A lot of people do it that way round a lot. Other people, they organize their day differently. They do the difficult stuff first. 'cause they've learned that once they get that out of the way, the easy stuff is easier to do. That's, that's a strategy. And we haven't quite reached the point where we're talking about strategy. So let me just start shifting the, the dialogue a little bit. Yeah. There is another part of your brain which is hidden under my hat and it's along here and it's called the prefrontal cortex. Robin: Now the prefrontal cortex is, I'm told, 'cause I'm not a scientist, but I'm told, but those that know evolutionarily speaking, it's a much younger part of \[00:12:00\] the brain. And it's where we do our rational thinking. Robin: And here's the kicker, if you're under 25, it's not yet fully formed. Now, it probably won't come as a terrible surprise to you to understand that those 900 research papers, the majority of the projects took place at guess where. Colleges, universities. Right, right. Robin: And guess who hangs out at colleges and universities? People under 25. People. Under 25. Yeah. We call 'em students. Right. And it's a, it's, it's, it's a horrible fact that they're going through all the things that young life gives them. They've got the, they're getting their first taste of freedom, maybe the first time away from home in their teens and, and it's freedom of that. So they've got all that distraction going on as they're turning into fully fledged adults. They've got busy social lives. They've got these huge curriculums that they have to get through. Which requires discipline and pro and being productive and the part of the brain that deals with all that isn't quite in the room yet. Elvis has not entered the building yet. Nevermind \[00:13:00\] left the building. He's not come in yet. Right. And so you've got this challenging situation where, of course plenty do work through it, but the re but the, the research is so prevalent because. Every student in the world at some point has to deal with procrastination. Some do it better than others. I mean, the, the statistics showed that, of those who admit to procrastination, I wasn't one of them. Mm-hmm. And maybe people listening would say that. Same thing I do now, but I wasn't, I didn't admit it then. But of those that do, 95% will admit to procrastinating sometimes. Big deal. So the dishes are after dinner, knee cleaning. Alright, I'll do them later. That's a form of procrastination. It's not life changing, not, it shouldn't be, but of the 95% who admit to procrastinating, one in five of those 20% talk about having chronic procrastination and that is debilitating. That's life changing. That has real costs. That gets you very upset. It damages relationships. It damages your finances, it damages your career, it damages everything about your life. \[00:14:00\] One in five out of, so that's out out of 95%. That's a huge number of people. Mm-hmm. And, and that isn't because there's anything wrong with them. Remember, this is your brain. Your brain is, you know, you're normal. It's not Abby normal. It's just normal. Your name's not Abby Normal. Your name is normal. Right? And, and it's just a natural reaction to life, to feeling threatened, to being overwhelmed. That you described the feeling of overwhelm. You need strategies. For dealing with that, you need plans. You need to find ways to get out of being in overwhelm, which is why I wrote the book. Mm-hmm. So the book is covered, covers three sections. The first section, which is what we've been doing, is we've been talking about beginning to understand it. So you've got the threat modality of the limbic system, and up here, the prefrontal cortex, they call that the reward modality. And in the reward modality, you can enter full productivity. That's where your rational thinking is right. What I discovered was by discover, I mean for myself, I didn't do any original research, but the science was saying \[00:15:00\] that in order to be fully productive, you need to trigger three neurotransmitters in your brain. Right? Mm-hmm. Now, bear with me because this is where I go into the science and my eyes glaze over, and if your eyes glaze over to, for, to the scientists psychology, but to the arts and humanity type people like me. Yeah. You'll understand, I'm sure, right? Yeah. Well, yeah. Right. You need three neurotransmitters. The things that connect your, the neurons in your brain. You need dopamine. The very famous dopamine. Everybody's heard of dopamine, and if you've got a phone or call it the dopamine in your pocket. Right. Everybody knows that the dopamine is the feelgood neurotransmitter. Mm-hmm. Right. You need a lot of that. You also need two others. You need acetacholine, and you need noradrenaline. You can wake up now because now I'm gonna translate that into English. Right. Dopamine, I call that the conductor, and I have the conductor living in the prefrontal cortex. Robin: In the reward modality. And it's like a conductor of an orchestra who has to bring all those separate, disparate. Instruments together that make \[00:16:00\] an absolute cacophony of awful sound. Get them organized, give them sheet music, organize them, train them, rehearse them, and get 'em to the point where they make the music of your life. Robin: Wow. Right? Mm-hmm. That's the conductor's role. Robin: Then in order to do the work, you need to be focused now, the best kind of focus, and that's caused by the neurotransmitter called acetycholine. That rattles off my tongue now, but that's because I've said it about a million times and I still have to, what was that word again? I still have to stop and think. I've got nothing between the ears when it comes to remembering scientific terms. Robin: Acetacholine is naturally present in children, and if you think about it, going back to survival when you're a child, you are the most vulnerable part of your entire life. And you have to learn to do things at an accelerated rate, at a rate that you will never need to do again. Normal, under normal situ circumstances, you have to learn to walk, you have to learn to \[00:17:00\] run. You have to learn to speak and understand language, sometimes more than one language, but certainly your main language. You have to learn to do that, you have to learn everything. You have to learn as a child, and it still takes years. You're still dependent on your parents while you're doing it, but a, but you are still learning at an accelerated rate compared to later in life. I mean, anybody that's tried to learn a language as an adult will tell you that it was, it felt a lot harder than learning their first language as a child. Robin: Mm-hmm. And that's because acidic coline is the neurotransmitter that gives us focus. And it, I, I, it might be counterintuitive, but children are brilliant at focusing. They're brilliant at it. Sure. Yeah. Okay. They can be distracted easily, they can have their squirrel moments. Mm-hmm. You know, like, oh, I've got gas. Mm-hmm. Right. But, and then they'll, they'll scream the house down and tell, 'cause they'll focus on that until you deal with it. Right? Mm-hmm. And, but the, but give them, I'm mean, my, my, my son watch the same movie. It was a Disney movie. He like Disney's first cars, not Disney, Pixar cars. Right. \[00:18:00\] He and I have watched that hundreds of times and he never got bored and he was always. Glued to the, to the thing the whole time it was on. Right. Focus, focus, focus. Here's the kicker. When you're an adult, we don't naturally have acid coline in our bodies anymore. We have to manufacture it from scratch. Robin: Fortunately we can, but it's not naturally present. Robin: How do we manufacture it? Well, it isn't, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a chemistry lab in your brain. Your brain does it, and the way that I can tell you when it's present is the better way of describing how. To manufacture it, which is, have you ever sat down to do something and you think, and you're really focusing on it and it's important to you and you really want to get it done, and you look at your watch and you think, okay, I'll do this for 10 minutes, and then I got to do something else. And then 10 minutes later you look at your watch and you think, hang on, where did that hour go? Robin: Where did that afternoon go? Where I've been doing this all night? Robin: Right. And it might be, you know, you could be playing a game, you could be reading a book, it doesn't matter. That's a clue that, that the assets coline is present. You've been focused. Mm-hmm. And when you're focused, you just lose track of time. You're completely focused. So, and I call that state the scholar. Mm-hmm. So you've got the conductor and the scholar. In a my productivity trifecta, the third member of the productivity trifecta is. The fun sized warrior, like fun sized chocolate bars that you put in your children's lunchboxes, right? The fun sized warrior, not the big warrior. The big warrior brings out a different, uh, neurotransmitter called cortisol. And cortisol shuts everything down that you don't need for your survival and in and enhances everything that you do. Robin: I know you need adrenaline for that and all that, but it's cortisol that gets your mind. Everything else shuts down the prefrontal cortex, the conductor, he goes back to his dressing room and has asleep. Mm. Right. You don't need her. Right. You don't need him. They, they, they, they are not in the building. They have left the building. They are not wanted. You have not dropped time. If \[00:20:00\] there's a tiger coming after you to think, all you have time to do is run. Right? Mm-hmm. So the reward modality is shut down. And the fun size warrior is needed, not the big warrior. The big warrior is the full fight. Fight or freeze. Now, if you're a soldier, fine, you're gonna need the big warrior 'cause that's exactly what you do for a living. Robin: But apart from that, you don't need that much. Cortisol or adrenaline in your system. What you need is noradrenaline, which gives you just a little edge of anxiety, a little bit of stress. Just a little bit. And the best way to think about the guy that summed it up beautifully for me was James Clear when he was talking about the Goldilocks rule, where he talks about not too much, not too little, just enough. Robin: And that's what you need. You need just enough. You need to be like, like I'm talking to you now, Kris. I'm sat on the edge of my seat. And I've just got a little bit of anxiety and a little bit of stress going on to keep my energy up. Mm-hmm. Robin: if I sit back, if I physically did that. I won't because it'll move me away from the microphone. But if I physically did that, I know that my thinking process would shut right down, and I'd be struggling to think of what \[00:21:00\] I'm saying about what I'm saying in the next thought. Mm-hmm. Because physiology is huge. Physiology makes a huge difference. Wow. So you do need, you do need that, that little bit of stress or anxiety, as I say, not if, if it's too much, you'll kick it over into big warrior and then you're into threat modality. And by the way, threat modality, you know, squirrel. It's, it's triggered that fast. Mm-hmm. Right? That fast reward modality, kind of like moseys in and takes its time coming along. You have to, you know, you have to light a candle and put some nice music on and mm-hmm. Or whatever you need to get your environment right. For you to work, you have to encourage it. You have to woo it, and that squirrel moment can take it away in a heartbeat. Mm-hmm. So you, you have to, whereas the reward modality doesn't take away the threat modality. So, for example, if I, if I'm, if I'm talking, if I'm sat sitting down to do some work and then I open an e, I make a mistake of looking at my email and there's a nasty one in there that upsets me, it triggers me in some \[00:22:00\] way. I'll often get up and make myself a cup of coffee, a cup of tea, go for a walk. Anything to break that pattern to try and UNT trigger the threat modality. Depends what it is. But I will do anything to distract myself because otherwise I know the reward modality is not gonna come in. Now we can all work in through threat modality. But it's not ideal, is it? No, it's hard. It's really hard. Yeah. Yeah. I Kris: get it. I, I would consider myself a big procrastinator, and I've gotten better at it over time. I've gotten more skilled and more compassionate about it. But like back in college days, if I had a test or a paper. You would know because my room, my dorm room would be spotless. I would, I would do things that I normally don't even enjoy doing. Just to avoid doing the real thing I, I didn't enjoy doing, which was studying. And I would redecorate the room. I would clean out drawers, you name it, and then all of a \[00:23:00\] sudden it would be 11, 11 30 at night. And I'd be like, now I can study. And then at that point, I was so tired, I would just fall, fall asleep. It was not a good system. Fast forward a couple of decades later. I took a personality test called the Kolby, I think it's called the Kolby. Um, and it identified that quality in me, which is that procrastination piece. And what it, what it shared with me was that I am a procrastinator and that, and that I do best under pressure. And so. I'm so glad you brought up that, that idea of like just a touch of anxiety, not, not so much that you've got cortisol, but when I have that touch of anxiety, I do my best work when I know I have a deadline, you know, even a day before or two days before, I am not someone who's gonna work a little bit every day. Over \[00:24:00\] the course of a week, I need to know, like, I'm gonna dive in, I'm gonna dive deep, and I have to get this done by a certain date. Um, so that, like, when I learned that about myself, it, I gave myself that gift. Now I give myself that gift all the time, which is, I, I have to start ahead of time, but not so far ahead of time that I don't have that sense of an a little dash of anxiety around like, gotta get this done. Robin: Well, uh, it's fantastic. You covered a lot of ground in there and I'm gonna try and remember it what you said because you covered several points. So, first of all, as I say, procrastination, we're, we're all procrastinators, every single one of us. Now, I do know a lot of people that don't self-identify as procrastinators, and their behavior doesn't demonstrate that they do. Robin: Sometimes that's environmental, sometimes they just don't have the opportunity. They have a boss. And the boss won't let them. That said, the statistics show that something like $1.2 \[00:25:00\] trillion a a year are estimated to be lost to workplace procrastination. Now, I don't know how they calculated that figure, and maybe it's a few hundred billion dollars out, but that's still a lot of money. And that's workplace, traditional workplace procrastination, because there are, you know, there are people in the workplace, there's no opportunity to procrastinate and there are people where there is, and they'll use it. But I, I personally work mainly with people that work for themselves. They have no boss. I'm my own boss. I look in the mirror every morning and it's the boss looking back, I'm not, I'm working for a lunatic. But he's my lunatic. But equally, he will not hold me accountable. Now, I do know people who work for themselves, and they hold themselves very accountable, and they work very hard, and they don't struggle with procrastination. Mm-hmm. So it segues myself. Wasn't intending to go there now, but it segues myself into the research again. In 2007, the American Psychological Association did some research into student procrastination, spookily enough. Students again, and what they found was was, it might \[00:26:00\] seem obvious, but it's interesting, the research backs it up. They found that students that, like you were assigned something to do and given a time period to do it in. Tended to procrastinate it to death. I mean, how many people have seen the, the classic scenario, right? You've got three months to do this project, Kris, three months to do this essay, whatever. Mm-hmm. And so you get a, you get a chart out, whether it's on a computer or put it on the wall, and you map out every hour of every weekday. You know, you make some time for, you know, parties and socializing, but you basically map out your work hours. Oh, I can do eight hours a day and still have time to go get drunk or, or go for a walk depending on your preference. Right? And then, and you go, right? So by the end of the week one, I would've done this by the end of week two, I would've done this by the end of the month. I would've done this by the end of the two months, I would've done this. By the end of three months, I'll be ready to hand it in. Right? And you color code it, and you do all of that. You go crazy. You get incredibly productive creating your charts of your, of your working plan, right? Yeah. Then what happens is, uh, by \[00:27:00\] the, you might, you probably get off to a good start first day or two, but by the end of the second, first week or even the second week, what have you done? Nothing. Nothing. Right? Yeah. What happens is, is eventually you get to, you've got like three days left. And you're like, oh shoot, I wish I'd started three months ago when I planned and you panic and you end up in this. I'm not describing anything that nobody isn't aware of, that nobody hasn't heard of, but you panic and you're like, I've gotta get it in. And you hand it and you, and you have like. You do like 48 hours without sleep. Right. And what you hand in is very substandard. You may, you may be lucky to get a grade at all. You might, you might just wing it, but you know, you've let yourself down. Mm-hmm. Nevermind the tutors. That doesn't matter. But you've let yourself down. Mm-hmm. And you're kicking yourself. Right. Because one of the things that, and, and that, okay, so I I, I, I was gonna digress, but I'll stick to my point about the American Psychological Association. So what they discovered was, was that courses at colleges that have an element of a strong element of accountability. Those students tended to score much higher \[00:28:00\] grades and get those courses had much higher pass rates than the courses where the, uh, the adults in the room, the, the, the professors and the teachers were more relaxed. Mm-hmm. And just, oh, you're an adult now. You, you have to learn to be self. Uh, you have to, you have to, you have to do it yourself. You, you have to learn to do all of these things by yourself. That's not our job. We give you, we give you the work, and if you do it, that's up to you. And if you don't, it's up to you. It's very mature. It feels, it feels very liberating and enlightening that people that you do, that you don't have people, parents telling you, you've gotta be home by such and such a time at night, and teachers telling you gotta hand this in by so and so time, like they do it school. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Those courses they found they, they tend to score less well, they tend to have lower pass rates. Robin: Now, hello. That's not, that isn't rocket science, unless it actually is a rocket science course, but it isn't. That makes sense. Curiously, not curiously, unsurprisingly, the courses that have a reputation for holding the students more accountable tended to have lower enrollment rates. Mm-hmm. Which is crazy \[00:29:00\] because if you are one of these people, I mean, there are plenty of very self-actualized students out there. If you really wanna get a good grade, get yourself on a course where they hold you accountable. Mm-hmm. That was the lesson. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And nevermind the fact that it might not be the most popular course. That's because you know, you don't wanna be Right. Controlled at that level. Right. So that's what got me interested in accountability. That's why when I was writing the book, I realized I actually need to set myself up as an accountability coach. I was a trained life coach. And I realized that 80% of the benefit that my clients used to get when I was coaching them was from the 20% Accountability had never occurred to me before. It was just like a, a penny drop moment. Oh yeah. It was the accountability that actually got them the results. Right. I can do that. I can help people with that. Because that's the one thing you can't recreate from home, by the way. It's the one thing you can have a nice coffee machine if you like coffee. I do. You can have a nice view from your window. You can have flexible working hours, you know? Um, but you cannot recreate external accountability. And, and, and, and I encourage people to think about that. We need it. We need it. Well, you might need it. \[00:30:00\] I'm not, it's too self-serving of me to say you must have it. But I will say that's where the 33% comes from. That was another piece of research done in the same year, 2007, uh, by the, uh, Dominican University of California, Gayle Matthews, and they looked at goal, the power of goal setting and writing down goals. And I'm not a great believer in goals. You might find that hard to believe, but I'm not, because the research demonstrated something that I'd always instinctively felt about goals. I just didn't understand it that goals are not themselves a great way to be successful. And that is because the setting of the goal sets up in your mind an obligation. Mm-hmm. That causes you to feel stressed and where to stress reside in our brain. Yeah. Yeah. In threat modality. In the limbic mode. And so if you feel stressed, you're gonna avoid the goal. Right. So I use goals in my coaching, but as milestone markers. As a way to getting to a bigger picture, which I call the personal life vision, which is about who are you becoming, who do you see yourself as? But I'm getting ahead of myself here. I just wanted to, to, to mention a couple more things about what you said. Um, so you also mentioned, I've got a thing in the book \[00:31:00\] called the productivity gauge, which is where you can be very, very, very, very, very, very unproductive and that's called procrastination. You don't get anything done and it's obvious when you're doing it. That's why I've got a, a whole section dedicated to understanding 'cause if you understand it. You can capture it. Mm-hmm. For example, well, by a way of analogy, lemme lemme explain. If, if you get to the end of the year and you don't have enough money, you can always make more money. Money is infinite. Governments print money all the time and they want more money. They just print it. Mm-hmm. Right. You as an individual, it's against the law to print money, but you can come up with ways of making more. Robin: But when you get to the end of the year of procrastination, that's a year lost of time. And that's finite and you only have a certain amount. You don't know how much you've got, but you do know you can't get back what you've used up. Mm-hmm. So the best time to catch procrastination is be as you are doing it whilst you are doing it, and before it becomes embedded in your day or your week or your month, or your year or your decade, because then you can do something about it. So in the understanding section, I'm teaching people to, to fish \[00:32:00\] rather than just giving 'em the fish. Because you need to say, oh, oh my, oh wow. I'm procrastination right now. And then the second section of the book is about strategies and about motivation. And the third section of the book is about momentum. We all talk about with, with productivity, about, um, motivation, but we never talk about, almost never about, well, how do you keep up the momentum? And that's where the 33% comes from with the Gail Matthews research in California University where she found that people who set goals, yes, they set goals, yes, they write them down. But the ones who just set goals, she found it was only a very small, it was only a small survey study, but I think it would, it was highly illustrative. After a month about, uh, 43% of them reported that they were part of their way towards achieving their goals or all of the way towards achieving them. And they hadn't written them down. 'cause they held it in their minds. That's fine, we can all do that. Robin: of the ones who wrote down their goals and. Had high levels of accountability. They were checking in weekly. They were getting emails from their accountability coach. They were having to send emails off to report what they were doing. At the end of the same month, that group achieved \[00:33:00\] 76% of their goals, or, well on their way. That's 33% more. Now, that's not an astonishing figure. You see figures span, oh, it's a hundred percent more. It's 95% more if you get an accountability coach. No, the research shows it's 33% more if you have accountability as part of what you do. Robin: Which, when you think about it, if you've got 33% more done by the end of every month, how much more cash is that in your bank account? Robin: much more time does that mean that you can spend with your friends and family and your loved ones and doing your things, your hobbies? Mm-hmm. How much more health benefit is there because you're taking better care of yourself? Oh, the way. It's it, I mentioned the health thing because as an aside, when I first started writing this book, I was 60 pounds heavier than I am now. Mm. And as I started rolling out the technology on myself and using it on myself, I started to think more and more and more, I don't want this weight, I don't need it. And I dropped it all in six months, 60 pounds in six months. And it wasn't, I'm not using any drugs or injections, I \[00:34:00\] just decided. It, it raised my level of self-esteem so much and my level of confidence so much. 'cause I'm now dealing, I've now dealt with it. I still consider myself a chronic procrastinator, Mm-hmm. And it never, it never takes over my life like it did before four decades. Mm-hmm. And so I'm just like, oh, and the way it's gone as well. So I know it can improve your health as well. That's a personal thing. I'm not claiming that it can make you thinner, but it worked for me. Yeah. 'cause that was something I wanted to achieve. And so I have a thing in my book called The Productivity Gauge, which makes the distinction between being productive on things where you feel good at the end of the day and being pro and uh, but that doesn't mean you've got anything done that really mattered and being productive on the things that move the needle. Mm. On my productivity gauge, which is all about achieving your personal life vision. So for example, if your personal life vision is in 15 years time from a standing start where you're not now and you want to be in 15 years, you want to be an oncologist, a very highly qualified specialist, doctor. It takes about 10 or 15 years, I believe. Mm-hmm. I'm not an expert, but I believe it does. \[00:35:00\] Well, if I decided today I am gonna just tidy the garage at the end of the day, I'll have a very tidy garage and a great big smug look on my face, and I'll feel really pleased with myself, really, um, tired, but happy. Robin: I've had a productive day. If I then ask myself the question, did I, what have I done towards achieving my ultimate goal of becoming an oncologist? Mm-hmm. Nothing. I'm not gonna be opening a surgery in the garage. I'm not gonna be opening a doctor's practice in the garage. It's just I decided to, to do some distract myself with productive work. That felt good. Mm, yeah. Yeah. So you can be very productive and still feel like you've achieved something, but. You've gotta also be quite picky about, that's another thing where someone who holds you external accountability mm-hmm. Doesn't have to be a professional coach, can be just a, a, an accountability buddy. I've had l plenty of those over the years. In my book I talk about there's good things and bad things about those, you know, but to some pitfalls you need to avoid, but yeah. Robin: They'll help you with that. They'll point out, yeah, great. Garage is really clean entirely, but what was, didn't you wanna be an oncologist? Right. \[00:36:00\] How did you, like you, you, you wrote. A book, right? Which is a lot of people wanna write a book. A lot of people never make that happen. You lost weight. Uh, so many people wanna lose weight and just can't seem to do it. How did you implement your own systems on yourself? What did you do specifically? Robin: Well, I would say to you about the losing the weight. The point I was making there was, it was a byproduct. It wasn't, it wasn't really a conscious thing. It was, I didn't just wake up one morning thought, oh, I'm losing weight. I did actually decide, oh, I'm just sick of this. I'm, I'm just gonna get rid of this weight. Yeah, I did do that. Mm-hmm. Um, but that comes from self because when we talk about people who procrastinate, it's not always the case. And I don't want to general, no, I am going to generalize. I don't, 'cause I'm not, everybody is the same. That's why my book is full of different strategies. 'cause no two people will work with the, the same strategies will work the same people in the same way. You have to have a, a variety of strategies that you can work with. Mm-hmm. So, because some will work better for you than others, right? Mm-hmm. \[00:37:00\] So, but for me, one of the things that we talk about in the book is how, is how, if you are not, if you are procrastinating, if you are staying in threat modality Robin: It's because you have rationalized or even irrationally decided that that makes you happier. It fulfills your needs. And I talk about the human needs in my book, it fulfills your needs. I'm not talking about your base needs, I'm talking about your emotional needs. Kris: Staying in, staying in the fear in the fight or flight Yes. Is what you're saying Yes. Meets your needs. 'cause one of your Robin: needs, um, uh, needs. The, the, the Tony Robbins, my teacher taught, taught teachers the six human needs. I mentioned those in the book, but he got that originally from, um, Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs. Yep. And he refined it and, and, and, and, um, I'll credit to Tony for refining it in a brilliant way. Robin: But for example, one of your needs is certainty. Mm. Well, you know, if you are overwhelmed by too, you know that you were talking earlier about something that sends you into overwhelm. That's just too much information. Mm-hmm. You be, that's because \[00:38:00\] you are uncertain. Robin: How do you get certainty? Here's a way. Eat something, preferably something chocolatey or, mm-hmm. Or fatty. Or sugary. That's how we put on whe because we get certainty from those foods. You don't get certainty from eating a lettuce. Mm-hmm. You do get certainty from eating a donut. Why? Because of the sugar hit and the fat hit the dopamine, it just triggers the, yeah, well, yeah, all of that. I dunno if it triggers dopamine and now that's outside of my scope, but it do, yeah, you certainly, you certainly feel happier. Yeah. I had, um. I had a stressful day the other day, and Dec, I just decided I'm going to, in quote, treat myself and I had an ice cream. Yeah, right. And I've been thinking about it all day and in the end I thought, oh gosh, just one ice cream. What the hell? You know? Yeah. Not gonna change my life unless I slip on it and break my neck. It's, it's fine. It's just one ice cream. Right, right. So I had an ice cream, and instantly the minute that ice cream was in my mouth, I felt a chemical change. I felt it. You don't fill that with lettuce. Right, right, right. It's a comforting feeling. Robin: But I'm not prescribing ice cream for people. I'm just pointing out. That's why we comfort eat. Right. 'cause certain fields, if they are sugary or fatty, they do trigger comfort in the brain. And I don't, I'm not a biologist, but yes, there is a real biological phenomenon going on there. happens, right? Yeah. So for me, when I decided I just gonna, I just don't want that anymore. I'll get my comfort now from the satisfaction and knowing I've done a good day's work and that I'm feeling more successful and that I'm, I've, I've cracked this. See, I didn't write this book, by the way. No disrespect. I didn't write it for your listeners. I wrote it for me. Robin: And as I was writing it, I just did what I've always done, which is I come from a place of service and I thought, actually, you know what? I could share this with other people, and that's why it's not written as though it was written by a scientist. The only scientific word on the book is the ology at the end of Get results, ology, I've got anology, you know, like urology, psychology, biology, right? Robin: there's other ologies out there. It just means the study of something. But in my case it's get results as in how can you get guaranteed to get results? In a scientific way. So it's \[00:40:00\] based on the science uhhuh, which I've talked about. And it's also, it's a method which science always follows a prescriptive step-by-step system. Mm-hmm. So there's both of them are in there. That's, that's me trying to be clever. But the point is, is that I'm not that clever. What I am good at is communi, I hope. Maybe your listeners don't agree, but I hope I'm good at communicating. I hope that they, some will remember noradrenaline dopamine and acid coline, but I'm hoping everyone remembers. You need the conductor. You need the scholar, and you need the fun size warrior. Mm. That's all you need. I love, I love the fun size, those people in, in the building. When they're in the building. When they're in present, then you know that you are going to be productive. How do you initiate that, that initial focus chemical? How do you, how do you invite that into your brain? And the answer is just start. Okay. Just start to, to there. There are lots of ways that you break the cycle of whatever, whatever is stopping you from becoming productive today. That's the understanding thing. And then take some action. And if the idea of like, \[00:41:00\] like, you know. Reading that paper or doing that project is, which is gonna take hours, is freaking you out. Mm-hmm. That's overwhelm. Yeah. You're gonna go and procrastinate, you're gonna go and do anything, but you're going back to your comfort zone, whether it's eating food Robin: or the mental equivalent. Watching tv, playing games, going for a walk, playing with the dog, right? Mm-hmm. Playing with the kids. Mm-hmm. All of that stuff is, has its place. Mm-hmm. But if it's when you're supposed to be working, not such a good idea. So you can start with taking action. Five minutes. Just say, I'm gonna do it for five minutes, 10 minutes. Mm-hmm. I'm just gonna do what? I'm just gonna give myself 10 minutes and then I'll review and I'll see how I feel after 10 minutes. Mm. Right? Mm-hmm. That's one thing. The other thing is strategy. You talked, we talked about that earlier. You mentioned Strat strategy. You need strategy to organize your day, routines in your day, things that are pre decided. Are much less stressful and much more likely to happen. Mm-hmm. So if you can plan your day, which is what I encourage you to do, whether you do it the night before or in the morning or the week before, plan your day around \[00:42:00\] strategies and build into it routines. Mm. Mm-hmm. And so that when you come to do so, so like, you know, instead of sitting down and Right, okay, I'm gonna have to deal with that monster thing called the emails now. Or as I call 'em other people's agendas. Mm. So that, I think they should come with a government health warning. Just beware of emails, right? Yeah. But just instead of like, well, I'll just, I'll just answer a few and see where it goes. Because then the next thing you know, you know, you have been focused on them and hours have gone by and other things are not happening. Right. Because you've spent too much time on them. That's not the best use of your, your scholar, that's not the best use. Robin: So maybe just say, okay, well I'm gonna do my emails for 30 minutes and then, and I'll, I'll priorit and I'll all, how I've got a hundred emails, what am I gonna do? Well, I'll prioritize. Robin: Okay. That one, that one, that one. And then I'll, and then if I've still got time, then I'll go into that one, that one and that one. And then at the end of 30 minutes, or an hour, or however long you got mm-hmm. You've, you've allocated to it. Your schedule says, time to do the next thing. You've given yourself permission to do that. Mm-hmm. So do it. Right? Mm-hmm. So it's all the strategies. Um, the, it's \[00:43:00\] it, that's why no one strategy works the same for everybody. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But yes, the answer to your question is absolutely, um, just, just. Start something. Um, I like using Pomodoros. The, uh, mm-hmm. That was a technique dreamt up by an Italian student in the 1980s. Mm-hmm. Where you do, it's called a pomodoro because you, I dunno why it's called a pomodoro, actually, that's a tomato. You, you, it's just like a, you take a, a bite sized chunk of time, so 25 minutes. Anyone can focus for 25 minutes. Give yourself, and then give yourself a. Five minute break. Break and then do another Pomodoro. Mm. I call them pos like the Australian call, the Brits pos. I'm gonna do my 10 pos today. That for me is five hours each with, uh, with two five minute breaks in each hour. I'm gonna do 10 pos today. I'm gonna do 12 POS today. Right. And I schedule them. Now the, the length of the po the. Is optional, 25 minutes is recommended, but you can make it 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever works for you. And then a little break. Just a little break. Robin: Right? Mm-hmm. All of these are strategies that are mentioned that are mentioned in the book, and most of your people will be aware of them. And if you are on a computer, um, these, uh, \[00:44:00\] organized timings that are, I call Pomodoros a lot of software on computers now. A lot of apps mm-hmm. Built in. Built into the operating system 'cause it's a good technique. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah. Have a, have strategy, anything that, the reason that that works is 'cause it de-stresses you. Mm. Mm-hmm. Right. It's like, oh, that's preci. I'm just gonna do that for half an hour and then I'm onto the next thing. Robin: Oh, that's preci what I'm gonna do then. Right. Right. The final thing is, is. I hate to harp on about it. It does self, self-serving. But the external accountability, remember when we were talking about like, you've got 12 weeks to do something? Yep. Well, in the business. 'cause you're a student and they give you three months to do something. Robin: If you're in the business world, you have, you have the equivalent, you have projects that need to get done. Robin: if you're working for yourself. Mm. Who's going, who's making you do them? Yeah. If you've got a client that you're working for, that's easy. You're accountable to the client. You've gotta turn up when you said you were gonna turn up. Right. Otherwise, you're not being professional. And that's, that's unacceptable. Mm-hmm. But say you've got a new project, say you wanna write a book. Well, how many words am I gonna write this week? Mm-hmm. Who decides? Mm, how many, how many chapters it's gonna be, \[00:45:00\] you know, who decides. Robin: That's when you need somebody there saying, look. When do you wanna finish the book by? Well, I wanna, I'm gonna take a year. Mm-hmm. That's realistic for me. It might not be realistic for someone else, it might be not enough time for other people. It might be too much time, but I'm gonna take a year. Great. How many words do you wanna write by the end of the first week, the first month, the first two months, right? Robin: Okay. And the accountability coach will help you to drill it down and then, and here's the important distinction. They will hold you accountable. Right. Mm-hmm. In a way that no one else can, and by the way, I'm not talking about, you know, they're gonna hold your feet over the fire and you, and send you electric shocks if you don't do it. The main thing that happens is, is that we don't like letting each other's down each other down. The other thing I didn't mention about your brain, by the way, is we're hardwired to be a, to be hurdled. The herd instinct. Mm-hmm. We are sociable creatures. Robin: it is perfectly natural. This is why AI won't hold you accountable because you know it's just ai. Mm. You know that even though you can program your computer. Oh. Just, you know, check in with me every \[00:46:00\] hour. Oh, I don't care. It's just a machine. It's not really. Right, but I'm real. You are real. When the client feels accountable to you. Oh, I'm, I better turn up. You see, one of the things I do with my coaching, I do what I call laser focused coaching, where all my clients go can have as many 15 minute coaching bounces. They like, as many as they like. Mm-hmm. Right. Because I'm results focused. I don't, I charge. I judge based on the fact that it's not hours, but it's what results do you want to get Robin: And I said, well, do you need, you know, 15 minutes a day, 15 minutes a week, 15 minutes a month, whatever works for you. But there's a condition when you turn up at the next session. You must have completed whatever you agreed to do at the previous session. Mm. Otherwise don't turn up. Right. Mm-hmm. Because you are going to be letting me down. Mm. And more importantly, yourself. Right? Right. There's that, but that's that social connection. Robin: Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And that if, imagine if you throw your mind back to when you did your project at university and you had all of that time. Mm-hmm. What if your tutor was saying, Kris, at the end of every week, I expect to see. Little \[00:47:00\] note, take a little note with like four or five bullet points of what you've actually done this week. Mm-hmm. And I will, and I will hold you accountable for if you haven't done that. Mm-hmm. How would that have made a difference? It would've made a big difference. It really would've. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But if Robin: it was just like, oh, I'm just gonna make a note in my diary in the end of the week, I'm gonna check my progress, but no one else is gonna see it. Right. Yeah. That's basically what you did. Yeah. Kris: Yeah. A hundred percent. And I'm still doing it, you know, like, yes. These interviews. For my podcast are so much fun and I'm accountable to you to show up and have this conversation. It, it, it feels fun and effortless. My solo episodes require more executive function planning and I am having to motivate myself to do it. And I, I always, I move it back one day. I move it back two days, and then finally my assistant is like, today is the day it has to be done, and then I do it, but I, right. Robin: Yeah. Right. Yeah. So either get \[00:48:00\] your assistant to do it or get a buddy or a a and, and by the way, I always stress not your significant other, it is not their job. Right. That's, that's a very unfair thing to do. Your significant other will hold you accountable, but don't make it their job to do that. Right. That's not fair. But you can ask friends, other business associates, or you can hire an A professional who, and that is their job. Robin: imagine if say, right, I, let's say you had a target of, uh, I want to get one of these done a week and that keeps sliding or two a week or through, and that keeps sliding, right? Tell your accountability buddy or coach, that's my target, and expect to get hauled over the calls if you're not doing it right. Question for you. How much more likely is it to happen if you know that you've gotta do that? Kris: Oh m much more likely. I mean, way more likely. I, I, I give myself a lot of wiggle room when it comes to that kind of thing, and I do push it back. Or when it comes to doing the dishes, I avoid it. I avoid it. I mean, I am, I'm very. Skilled procrastinator when it comes \[00:49:00\] to packing for a trip. Oh, I just need to have, you know, maybe I need a bowl of chips before I start my packing. Yes. I hate packing. Um, so yes, you're a I totally am. And that's not a judgment, I mean, you've said it yourself, but also it's self-acceptance. It's fine. Yeah. Robin: yeah. Like, you know, actually I was saying to someone the other day, you know, even the dishes. Right. Let's imagine, go back to my hypothetical that you want to be an oncologist 15 years from now. Mm-hmm. I dunno why I picked that one. It's just one that sprung to mind. I wanna be a doctor. I don't wanna be a doctor. That's the last thing on earth I should do. I'd be a terrible doctor, but, but, but, but, but that is a very respectable, uh, thing to want to be, right? Yeah. And it requires a great deal of work, uh, an enormous amount of work. So, okay, I'll do the dishes later. Is your excuse, that's your procrastination. I'll do it later. Yeah. Right. I'll do it later. I'll do it later. Mm-hmm. Or actually, I digress, whether that you'll laugh at this. Oh, I hope so. I always like the sign in, the famous sign in the, in the Polish bakery. That in Polish it says, \[00:50:00\] free bread tomorrow. Right. And people go in and they come in and they say, oh, I was in here yesterday. I've come in for my free bread. And the baker says, tomorrow, don't make the sign. Right. And that's what we do. That's how we do it. Yeah. So my, back to my dishes thing, right? Mm-hmm. Okay, so not doing the dishes is not a big deal. That's what I call my procrastination. Unless the dirty dishes are sitting on the table, that also doubles up as the table. You lay out your textbooks to study. Robin: And it interferes with you becoming, with your study. Robin: So there is, and, and you might, so if you, so your goal, because I, so I talked earlier about your goals by themselves are not enough. Mm-hmm. In fact, they can set up obligation, stress. Say your goal is, oh, I've gotta get this, uh, essay done by the end of the month. That's a goal. Right. And it, or three months, and it just, the, the, the fact is it's just human nature. It feels too far away. It feels too ethereal. Mm-hmm. It's only when it's like, oh gosh, it's in three days time, you, you can suddenly relate and you panic. Robin: three months, six months, a year, or never, because it's not something you have to do, \[00:51:00\] like the all solo podcasts. Robin: It just feels like, oh, we do, who cares? No one cares. If I don't do it, I care, but no one's gonna know. Mm-hmm. Right. Who one's gonna know if I don't do the dishes? But if you don't do the dishes. And your dream is to be an oncologist 15 years from now. Robin: And in order to get to the next step of being an oncologist, you have to get that essay in and you have to get a good mark. Mm-hmm. And the only thing stopping you getting that essay to a good mark is you need to clear the table tonight. Mm-hmm. Then the dishes are gonna get done, aren't they? When you are focused, 'cause that's the other piece I bring in the book. I have a whole chapter dedicated to creating your personal life vision. It's not a goal. Goals, they talk about writing down goals. I know lots of people have never written down their goals and they're very, very successful. Mm-hmm. They're not a means, they're not by themselves enough, but a vision is something you just wake up with it in the morning. Mm. You know, I don't know what your personal life vision is, Kris, but I guarantee because you work for yourself that when you wake up in the morning and after you found your kids' clothes, where, where your kids hid their school shoes. 'cause that's always the first cry every morning. Where are \[00:52:00\] my shoes? And why didn't you put them where they were supposed to? And all of that going on. Yeah. Your first thought is 5, 10, 15 years From from now, I see myself living my life like. Whatever that is. Mm. I see myself sitting on the beach drinking pina coladas. I see myself only working, having to work two or three days a week. Mm-hmm. I see myself being qualified in this, that, and the other, whatever that is. You don't need to write it down. It's in your head. It's what drives you. You just need to remind yourself and be very clear, and if you're not clear, get clear. That's what the, that's what my personal life vision chapter is all about. Get very, very clear and specific so that you know that that's who you are becoming. You feel it, you sense it, you everything about you. Epitomizes it so that you know that not cleaning the dishes tonight could actually put off you achieving your ultimate dream for your life. And then they'll get done as well. Mm-hmm. And if unfor, and if you don't need that table because you studied table is somewhere else in the house, and that's always clear because you have a space where you can do that. Robin: Who cares. The dishes don't get done. So what? Right, right. Robin: pe kind of procrastination you don't need to worry about. Yeah. Kris: I, I'm so glad you \[00:53:00\] touched on the life vision because I think that obviously it has more of an influence on our behavior and I think it's so important and I think that a lot of people haven't taken the time to craft that vision, so, um, oh, it's Yeah. If you think about all the successful people in the world, I guarantee you, not all of them. Not all of them had goals. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Not all of them were, were educated. Robin: But I guarantee you, all of them at some point developed a burning desire to be somebody in their, in their field of expertise. Mm-hmm. There's a, there's a, I won't name who, who it is because it's not relevant, but there's a British celebrity every time that the, uh, exam results are announced every August for how our year, how our students got their grades this year, he points out that he can get anything. He got nothing. And he is now not just very, very famous. He's world famous actually, but he's particularly famous here. But he is a multimillionaire \[00:54:00\] many tens of times over, right? He's not a billionaire, but he's very, very rich. Robin: And he said, and I never set a goal in my life. Robin: Right. I won't know who he is. 'cause you know, he is a controversial figure as well. Not, and that's not the point. Yeah. He's a love hate type figure. But the point, but the point is he's saying, look, I'm successful, and, but when you are, but when you ask him why, he talks about, I just know I loved what I did. Mm. I, I always wanted to do this. And I just did more and more and more and more. Robin: He didn't set goals, he just focused on it. Mm-hmm. He just went for it. Mm-hmm. He just was single-minded about it. Kris: Yeah. And when you, when you love what you're doing, that that focus chemical is naturally at play as well. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Because that's Robin: the thing about losing touch with time again. 'cause time is, it's a weird, it's a very ethereal thing. Time. We all know that time can feel like it's taking forever. Like during the COVID lockdowns, gosh, didn't that time drag? Mm-hmm. But now how many people look back on the COVID years and I can't remember what happened, what happened? Mm. You know, I'm, I'm not talking about the people that were bereaved and I'm sorry for those. Right. But people that just got, got through those years. Yep. \[00:55:00\] And, and they were so bored, so amazingly bored. Time just felt like it was taking forever. And now, I dunno about you, but I was watching, um, what was it? I was watching earlier, something came on the TV and I was like, this was made when? 2016? No, no. Five years ago. Short. And then I remembered, oh yeah, I lost five years. Robin: And I've lost, I've lost track of the amount of times I've said, oh, I've lost five years. Yeah. In the last year or two. Like I, I, I mean, I was busy. I was writing my book. Right. But I, I, I still lost track of time 'cause there was so much of it to do, to be bored. Mm-hmm. I mean, how many people have, if you fly. Many people hate being on a long flight. Mm. I know. I'm one of them. I hate what, what's the like, there's nothing to like about it. Mm. I mean, England to America is 11, 12 hours of utter tedium and boredom and discomfort. And every time I've been on one of those flights, I've sworn I'm never gonna do this again. Never gonna do this again. And then three days later, I'm like, oh, I think I'll come out here again. And they're like, well, what's changed? I can't remember what, what, what they, I \[00:56:00\] can't remember the flight. There was nothing to remember. Right, right. That's time. This is all our perception of time. That's the point we're making. Kris: Wow. We covered a lot of territory today, Robin. Thank you so much for being here. Tell us how we can find you and how we can learn more from you. Robin: Okay. Brilliant. Thank you. Well, there's a couple of ways you can find me. Uh, the first is I'm on LinkedIn. Just look up, uh, Robin j Den. Um, and, uh, I'm the only Robin j Edin in the world. I'm probably the only Robin Emin in the world, but I always use the J like JK Rowling uses a K because I think it just sounds cooler. I dunno why. I just do, it's just me being, being a bit, uh, uh, uh, egotistical, I suppose. But anyway, Robin James den looked me up on LinkedIn, messaged me there. The other way is, um. Now I, I would love to get my book into people's hands now. You can, you can buy it from Amazon. You can borrow it from the British Library. They've got a copy of it in the British Library. I'm so thrilled. That's not 'cause they wanted it. It's 'cause it's the law in the uk They gotta have it. So I'm bragging about it's in the British Library. Um, but um, you \[00:57:00\] can, you can buy it from Amazon. You can buy the Kindle from Amazon. I wanna get this technology out there. I wanna get it into people's hands. I wanna help people. I wanna add value. So what I've done is I've bundled it up as an unabridged PDF, and you can have it for free. Robin: attached. You can just have it for free, and you can get that from, I've, I've given, I've created a you, you can find it through my main website, which is spooky enough. Get results ology.com, or you can get it from really useful tips. Com, they both take you to the same link. Mm-hmm. It's really useful tips.com. It's just easy to remember because I really mean it. I'm really am giving it away for now. I haven't yet come to my senses, so get it while you can. It useful, as in, I hope you'll find it really useful. Tips as in it's full of them. It's full of tips. Really useful tips.com, and here's the thing. In the book, at the end of the first chapter, I invite you to hold yourself accountable to me for free. No charge by signing a pledge saying that you're going to read the book and do the \[00:58:00\] exercises in the book. Yes, there are exercises in there because I want you to experience the strategies. I don't suggest that you will end up using them all. Robin: like trying on clothes, see which fits best for you. See which doesn't. So commit. Sign the pledge and then email it to me. And there's an email address there. I think it's just my pledge@getresultsology.com, something like that. Just email me with a pledge. I read them all, I reply to them all. I do not have someone answering my those emails. Mm. You will get a reply from me and I'd be delighted to hear from you. Um, and you can message me that way as well. Uh, you can just get me, um, robin@getresults.com. But um, do the pledge. Why not? What you got to lose the book's free. Robin: I just add, by the way, just as for some people, the book is too much, so if you wanna taste it, I've done a little video course as well, which I also give away from free. Oh, cool. And the video course, it's a little five day challenge, 10 minutes a day, just a flavor of what's in the book. It's based entirely on the book and that you can find at skyrocket your productivity challenge.com. That skyrocket your productivity challenge.com. And they can also, again, no strings attached. You can have that for \[00:59:00\] free as Kris: well. Wow. Thank you so much. We will put all those links in the show notes so you can grab all the goodness that Robin has to offer. Robin, thank you for being here today. Kris: It's been my absolute pleasure. I hope it's been of service to you and your listeners. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/turn-book-into-brand-story-driven-messaging-allison-lane ### Title: Turn Your Book Into Your Brand with Story-Driven Messaging ft. Allison Lane ### Page ID: 7843651 ### Content: Turn Your Book Into Your Brand with Story-Driven Messaging ft. Allison Lane Are you **cringing every time someone asks what your book is about?** You're not alone, and you're definitely not broken. Most authors make the same painful mistake: they launch into plot summaries, ramble about themes, or freeze completely when asked that simple question. But here's what successful authors know: **the question isn't really about your book's plot.** People are subconsciously asking, "How will this benefit me?" I recently had the pleasure of joining Allison Lane on her Author's Edge Podcast to discuss why traditional book descriptions fail and share the exact framework that transforms confused authors into confident storytellers. Whether you're writing your first book or launching your fifth, this conversation will change how you talk about your work forever. ✅ **The 20-minute exercise** that eliminates awkward book conversations and gives you unshakeable confidence ✅ **Why making yourself the hero of your own story actually repels readers** (and what to do instead) ✅ **The two-sentence formula** that makes people lean in and say "tell me more" about your book Ready to stop fumbling your book pitch and start attracting the right readers? This conversation reveals the story-driven approach that transforms your book from just another title into a powerful personal brand that opens doors you never imagined. Turn Your Book Into Your Brand with Story-Driven Messaging ft. Allison Lane CTC Ep. 44 | Turn Your Book Into Your Brand with Story-Driven Messaging ft. Allison Lane Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Allison: Welcome, welcome to the author's edge. I am your host, Alison Lane, and I'm telling you, I'm a longtime marketer, lifelong publicist. And I always have had the skill to see the strength, the kernel of awesomeness. In everyone, and I think as a kid who was an introvert who had a lot of trauma, I stood in on the periphery and I watched a lot of things and it's my joy to help all of you see the strength and the wisdom and the awesomeness in yourself that I see and my guests see. If you're struggling with how am I going to \[00:01:00\] package what I know or how to position myself and you want to work with me directly, I'm at lane lit. com or send me a note. Alison at lane lit. com. This is not hard. I am here for you. Now let's get to the podcast. This week's focus is on you telling your story so that you can position yourself as the answer to someone's problems. And when I thought about who I needed to have on, only one name came to mind because It takes a certain type of clarity to get to the few words that can capture the transformation that you can make in the world. And for that reason, Chris Jones is joining us from Red Door Designs. She's a StoryBrand certified guide. That means she's an expert copywriter and helping people define and \[00:02:00\] communicate the benefit that they put into the world, the value that other people get. So it's not. I need to build my personal brand and I am an expert copywriter. It's I, Alison, help women get book deals and launch their books with success. Did you hear me say I'm an expert marketer? No, because it doesn't matter. I could be a juggler and it doesn't matter. The end result is what matters, and Chris is the jam about doing this, and she's gonna share her wisdom with us today. So welcome, Chris Jones! Thank you for being here, Chris Jones, famed story brand, certified guide, expert copywriter, and just to let everyone know, we became friends because I reached out to you because I heard you on a podcast. Allison: In a nice way, I reached out to you through your \[00:03:00\] website as a cold call and said, I really like what you are putting out there and I'm picking it up what you're laying down and I think we should be friends. Kris: And here we are. Yeah. Clearly there was something about you that I realized this was not my typical cold email. Allison: the norm. Yeah, exactly. Right. Like people need to know what you know. Not just because we hear copywriter and nobody really knows, like, how does that apply to me? But I think you have such a way of helping authors, particularly because that's who I work with, discover how to position what they do and what the result that other people get from what they do. Allison: way they can stop describing themselves as, I'm a writer, like, No, everyone's a writer. Or every psychologist, we don't want to know your job \[00:04:00\] title. So let's just start off like this. What is the biggest mistake that authors and aspiring authors are making? When it comes to building or establishing themselves as a leading voice? Kris: That's such a good question. I mean, very clearly, the biggest mistake is that they haven't taken the 20 minutes that it takes, maybe 30 tops, to just plan what they're going to say when somebody asks What do you do? What are you working on? What's the book about? And what happens is, you know, we're excited about our book project. We want to talk about it. But then when somebody asks about it, number one, we cringe. Number two, we freeze. Number three, we spit out a two word answer. Number four, we spit out an 80 word answer and we lose \[00:05:00\] them completely. And so I think just a little bit, let me put it this way. When somebody is able to answer. That question in a very concise way. It's not because they're smarter or that they're better at winging it. It's because they've taken 20 minutes to plan how they're going to answer that question. They've printed it out and they've memorized it. And then it's kind of become part of their cellular memory. So they don't have to stress anytime they get that question. Because let me tell you, whether you're writing a book or you've just launched a book. Or you have a book under your belt, you're going to get that question a bajillion times. So you might as well get excited when you get that question, because you know exactly how to answer it. Allison: So well put, because everyone gets asked, what are you writing? And what they launch into the plot of the book, well, I'm really writing about and it's \[00:06:00\] like they're trying to brainstorm it right there, because you can tell because they're looking at the sky. And, like, in hopes that, like, a bird will bring them, like, a, Allison: guess, just a messenger bird of, like, girl, it's gonna drop right here, girl. What are you writing? We don't want to know, really, what you're writing, because the question that it's up to us to do the, like, literary limbo, the mental gymnastics, To translate, what are you writing, is how will I benefit from what you're doing? Kris: Why does it matter to me? That's what our brains are constantly scanning our environment every day, all day, every day. How am I going to survive? How am I going to thrive? How can I conserve brain calories? Thinking and figuring things out requires a lot of brain calories to be burned. And our brains don't like to exert \[00:07:00\] energy. And so when we're able to spoon feed these answers to people, our brains just soak it up because we're like, number one, I get it, right? You don't lose people. They're like, I get it. I'm tracking, I'm absorbing what you're saying. I'm picking up what you're putting down. And number two, it's relatable. I can understand why does that matter to me? Or why would that matter to maybe, maybe not me personally, but my partner or somebody that I love? Allison: Right. And so then when you know that that's the mistake, then what should people be doing in order to be prepared for that? It's the first question you get as soon as you want to hire a social media manager. They say what your profile needs, you can't just say mom and coffee lover. Okay, thank you for that. Kris: Well, it's very meta because we're talking about \[00:08:00\] authors who have written a book or are writing a book. And what I'm suggesting people do is tell the shortest story you've ever told about your book, about what your book is about. And the way you tell the shortest story ever told, it can be two sentences long at the most. Every story, and you probably know this as an author. Already, but every story, every movie, every book begins with a hero that has a problem. They don't know how to solve. They are out and about. They're looking for a guide, whether that be a book or a coach, or they're looking for a guide who can help them solve this problem and overcome it so they can ultimately experience success. And that is the formula for literally every story. And that can be a 300 page book all about that. And you go in deep into that journey and all those details. And of course, \[00:09:00\] there's more to it. You know, but fundamentally, those are the core components. And you can also follow that same formula when you answer that question. What are you working on? What's your book about? What do you do? Where you always begin with the hero's problem. What's the problem that's happening that you're solving by writing this book? And what is the benefit that readers are going to experience because of reading the book? So it's literally that simple. I mean, it just doesn't have to be that hard. It just doesn't. And it shouldn't be. But it Allison: is hard because it's not hard for you because you do this, but it is hard because usually Aspiring writers have a full time gig doing anything else. They are urban designers or librarians or teachers or psychotherapists or students. \[00:10:00\] They don't do this. They're used to having a conversation, but not marketing themselves. And that's the big change now, right, is that you're expected to not just say here's the plot of what I'm writing about, but here's how it matters, right, because no one's going to do that for you. What is the biggest change you've seen recently about branding or landing this one or two liner? Kris: not really. I think ultimately, like the fundamentals of story never changed, number one, and the core problem that I solve as a business owner really doesn't change because the problem is we're so close to our own work and we're so close to our own selves. It's like we're inside of a bottle trying to read a label that can only be \[00:11:00\] read from outside. And so that is the core problem that whether you're an author or you're a business owner, whatever you're trying to write about when you're just so close to it, it feels really, really hard. It really does. And so I can come in and I can read the label of your bottle. And really help you have clarity about it. That being said, I have a free tool. I think the reason why this feels so hard for people, number one, they're trying to do it themselves, which it's always going to be harder when you try and do it for yourself. It doesn't mean it's impossible. It's just hard. Number two, when you're trying to write for yourself about your own work, you pull up a blank Google doc and. It's daunting. You don't know where to begin. And so I have a resource that's free. It's a five minute video. I'm holding your hand through it so you don't feel like you're \[00:12:00\] alone. And then there's a worksheet there that allows you to get all those brilliant ideas out of your head and onto paper and organize them into two simple sentences. Allison: so helpful. And this is, for me, who knows you and can text you at any time and say, I need a message, zhuzh, please. But I still use that tool. So the thing is, I think, too, the expectation that whatever your statement is, whether it's in your author bio or on your website or on your socials, that we need to be knowledgeable enough, that those same 12 or 13 words. Show up in all the places, even, you know, in your LinkedIn title where I still see a lot of people saying like senior manager, like, no, nobody cares. And nobody's noticing when you go from senior manager to super senior \[00:13:00\] manager or assistant professor to tenured professor, like no. Kris: LinkedIn is such a ripe opportunity to zhuzh up your profile and really stand out because just like. Websites, so many people are doing it wrong or doing it in a very bland, boring way. And you know, with 30 minutes in Canva and a little bit of time into your message, you're going to really stand out on LinkedIn and it will give you a return on the investment for sure. Allison: Yes. And it'll help you decide who you are today. And then you can delete all the skills that you accrued 17 years ago. Kris: Right. Right. The other really cool thing about doing this foundational work around your messaging, and you touched on it a moment ago, is you do it once and then it's like the lazy woman's marketing. Like, you do it once and then you copy and paste it \[00:14:00\] on your LinkedIn, in your email signature, on your website. Right. And verbally, when you're talking to people, you just. Use it over and over and over again, because it's so clear and it's so compelling and people can very easily understand it and it gives you way more confidence, but it also is way less time than trying to generate new answers and new content and new social media. Every day it's that hamster wheel that I'm on a mission to really help people get off of the hamster wheel and do the work that you really love and don't feel like you have a constant homework assignment hanging over your head. Allison: Yes. Yeah. So, so smart. And I would say one of the benefits that I learned from you, that as an expert marketer, you know for yourself, but you still hang on to your favorites like, Oh, I love the describe myself this way and this \[00:15:00\] way. No, you get one and then everything else can go in a file that you don't look at anymore because rewording yourself. Is just muddy as the waters. Kris: It does. It kind of degrades the message over time and you kind of lose whatever that initial spark or strategy was. And I think the beauty of working with a partner or hiring somebody to come in and help you is even if you have good copy, sometimes you just need someone to go, this is right. This is right. Don't stop rethinking this. Stop reworking this. This is right. And I think that happens even in like interior design. Sometimes you just need an interior designer to come in and be like, yeah, that's a terrible chair. Or this art here is really working, but not knowing is Right. If you don't \[00:16:00\] know what an A plus is Allison: Sometimes you just need to have someone say door A. Yes, totally. Yeah. You know, that's the shade that you need to go with. Kris: Yeah. Right. And here's why door a is the right choice. And here's why I wouldn't recommend this other option. So you understand, I mean, the idea is like you want great copy, but you also We want to know the strategy behind why this is working. And it's an art form, but there's such a science behind it. And there's such strategy behind why copy works. And it's really helpful when we know the why behind it. Allison: Yeah. Chris, what is a common myth that people believe about nailing their personal brand statement? Um, Yeah. That \[00:17:00\] they need to rethink. Well, the thing that comes to mind is, I hear this a lot, and what I hear is, I don't have a story. My story is boring. You know, it just. Other people have good stories, but I don't and that goes for your brand statement or your story or whatever like my mind's boring Everybody has the story everybody has a compelling brand statement, and it's my job to really pull it out of you I know the questions to ask to really pull out your most compelling story your most compelling Brand statement and put it together in a way that helps you stand out and really differentiates you from everyone else in your industry, which is the hardest part. And also helps you become more memorable. And that's like the other hurdle that we all face is how can we be remembered? How can we be top of mind when people have this \[00:18:00\] problem? So everybody has a story. Everybody has a compelling story and an interesting story and That's what I want people to really know. Allison: Yeah, so listener, I know you're driving around in your car and you're thinking I'm in the CVS prescription line and I'm listening to that and I've got a lot of things and I believe her, but by the time I sit down and I think about developing a brand statement for the work that I'm doing, or I'm finally leaving the university and want to become a speaker, but now I have to build a website, you do need it. That statement and you do have a story and it's not I am a former professor who taught 20th century literature to wherever I mean that's not it. And you can use Chris's tool and it'll be so much easier. But Chris, we're always learning \[00:19:00\] based on what has worked but what is a. tactic that has been popular, that's no longer really useful or working in 2025? Kris: Mm. Well, I think there's a lot of like what I call bro marketing scarcity tactics that were used a lot. And I think everyone is just fed up with that. Like the timers, they got to check out, this is your only chance to do this. In marketing in general, I'm not a fan of scarcity tactics. They're still used quite a bit. And I would say they're often effective, which is why they're used, but what a terrible way to start out a relationship with somebody, you know, or to get a new student or a new buyer to pressure them into it and make them feel like. They have to do it now or it's never going to be an option again. I think \[00:20:00\] that that's one thing that I just think is like played. And then the other thing that I think is people get confused about is like the difference between the narrative that you're telling about your business or your book and how to really tell a story about that. So people want to read it or they want to publish it or just to get people on board with it. That story that I'm talking about is really a narrative that. It's about you inviting your potential hero into a story with you where they can envision themselves as the hero and they Envision you as their guide. The guide is the strongest character in every story. So that's the type of story I'm talking about and there's some confusion around like What I call the founder's story, and this is really how your background, your professional background, how you got to where you \[00:21:00\] are and all of that good stuff, that story is more for you than it is for anybody else. I'm not saying that you shouldn't write your founder's story, but if you want to write a story that will get you a return on investment. That will help build your career professionally. I'm talking about this type of narrative that's different from a founder's story. So the other third tier of that question is really making yourself the hero of your own story. You're the Yoda, you're not Luke Skywalker. Yoda is the strongest character in the story. There's only room for one hero in every story. And so when we make ourselves the hero of our own story, Number one, we're painting ourself as a weak character. Number two, we're kicking our potential reader, our potential client out of this story with us. So they literally can't engage. And you've probably experienced this subconsciously, not really \[00:22:00\] realizing that when you went to a website and you're like, huh, okay, yeah, she's cool. She seems smart and nice, but I'm going to keep looking. And the reason you bounced from that website is because they were likely making themselves the hero of their own story and you didn't feel a connection. When you're the hero of their story and they're the guide, there's this beautiful connection that begins to build and trust. begins to build and you all of a sudden really can envision yourself working with this person or reading their book or however they want you to engage, and then you're motivated to take that next step, whether it's by the book or whatever else that you want them to do. A lot of authors want people to read their book. Because they have a story to tell and they want to help people and they know that their story can impact readers. But what happens is they \[00:23:00\] don't really think beyond that. And the book is really a vehicle, of course, to help people. But then after they read your book, they're like, I know her. I like her. I trust her. I want more from her. I want to work with her. I want her to coach me or I want her to help me overcome my version of this problem. And so it's It's absolutely essential that you have some forethought around that and that you build, even if it's a one page website, that you build a site that you can guide people to in the book. A website address in the book will change the trajectory of your career. It will make you a lot of money, most likely. And then people can go to your website and get a feel for how you want to show up for your clients. Do you want to. creative group program. Do you want to just do one on one coaching calls with readers? How do you want to help them? That's kind of up to you, but \[00:24:00\] It's kind of a shame if you're going to go to all the effort to write this book and not then continue to hold the hand of the person who's read it and give them more of what they're looking for, which is more of you. Allison: When your website is written in a certain way, it could be powerful, but it repels people when we see language. That is like any one of these things, I'm on a mission to, are you doing it? Or are you on a mission? Enjoy your mission. You've provided me no confidence that you're actually doing the thing. You're just giving it an old college try. My purpose is, that's super, but are you doing it or are you still trying? Or that's why I established this effort. Like, great, but I want you to skip ahead. But when you confirm for people that you're just still trying, and you're even spelling it out for them, I'm \[00:25:00\] trying to do this. Well, are you doing it? No? Great. Click to the next one. So don't do that. State your strengths. Chris, do you have any? I'm sure you see a lot of those types of phrasings. Kris: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just human nature. We want to be humble, we want to be modest, but ultimately we're insecure often and we use language that diminishes ourselves. And I think that you don't have to wait to feel confident in order to change that. You have to actually change that. By having the words and having a plan and knowing exactly what to say, because you've planned it and you've memorized it. And it doesn't mean you're going to sound like a robot, right? That's what we're afraid of. We're like, we just want to be authentic and organic, but those authentic and organic people have planned what they're going to say. And then as you \[00:26:00\] memorize it, you can tweak it or make it kind of. Tweak it a little bit when it comes out, depending on the situation, but the confidence comes from really Taking the time to know how you're gonna answer these questions that usually make you cringe or usually make you feel Uncomfortable or you find yourself diminishing yourself. It's not okay. Don't do it And if you do diminish yourself, Allison: Yes. And I know you don't want that. Don't do it! Alright, that was our PSA, that was our kick in the tuckus for you're a big effing deal. Accept it. You're not trying to do it, you are doing it. Right. We believe in you. I want to say something, because you have inspired me, and I was talking to a group of clients just yesterday, and I actually cursed, which I never ever do in my group. I \[00:27:00\] mean, I do like a well placed curse word. But, you know, here's the thing about aspiring authors. These are often experts in their field, and they're just hoping that their debut book is that people buy it. My view is, I can always see that of course people are going to buy it, this thing is going to take off, we need to prepare for the success that I know is going to come, and they have a hard time seeing past, but I just want the book to be a success. But your book is the product and you are the brand. So you've got to trust, trust me when I say this is going to blow up and we need to prepare and that people might not want to buy your 27 book. They might want to buy your 2, 700 personal coaching program. And \[00:28:00\] which one do you want? You know? Right. Let's assume a yes. Allison: And assume the positive, because I have seen this happen for every one of my clients has another door open that they are flabbergasted Allison: People will want to come to your site and they will want to engage. They will want to sign up for emails. No, do not make them send you an email, like contact me. Kris: And don't create a general newsletter. Give them something truly helpful and really valuable and just start there. The other thing is like, if you don't want to become a coach or consult or whatever, people are going to want you to come and speak. So charge 5, 000 for every speaking gig that you do. Allison: If you don't create something in advance, people will want to pick your brain \[00:29:00\] and picking your brain costs money. Because it's your time, and those people are not your friends. They're not alike. Well, I pick my brain too, you know? That's different. They're going to want to pick your brain, no matter what. So prepare for that. And prepare for the fact that they want to know the bigger picture of what you do for them. Not just, I've written this one book. Kris: Yeah, and you don't have to figure it all out right now. Have your website built, have one thing that would be fun for you, and it might just be a 30 minute or a one hour discovery call, and maybe that's paid. And then once you talk to a couple dozen people, it's going to be clear to you what they're really craving, what they're really needing, and then you can design. Your service around that and that's another way to go just lay the groundwork You don't have to figure out everything ahead of time But be prepared \[00:30:00\] as prepared as you can and then follow those breadcrumbs You are Excited to read what's a book that's on your to be read list Kris: Oh my gosh, you're gonna laugh, but my friend loaned me The Red Tent and I have not read it yet. It's really good. I know. I know. It's like, it's there. It's waiting for me. Donald Miller just came out with StoryBrand 2. 0. I have not read it yet, but it's literally on my nightstand and I can't wait to read it because he wrote it. He came out with StoryBrand seven years ago. And a lot has changed, a lot has changed in seven years. So I'm ready to dive into that and I have the hard copy right there on my nightstand. Allison: We will put both of those books in the show notes, links to them so that people can easy access. \[00:31:00\] One of the easy things that we do on this podcast is curate people's to be read lists because it's so much easier to get a recommendation than it is to go scroll through the Barnes Noble website or go to your indie bookstore and look it on the shelves like, what do we really want? Allison: That's why I recently, now, if anyone's following me on social, I have a weekly. Here's books I loved this week. Allison: Three books. I do read more than three books a week because I'm insane. And my mom taught me to speed read when I was four. Ooh. Gimme gimme. From Click to Client by Chris Jones. Really? Yes. Jones! Yeah. RedDoorDesigns. com forward slash book. You can go there and get that. And then I \[00:32:00\] also just came out with a private podcast you can sign up for that really delves deeper into everything we talked about today. And that can be found at RedDoorDesigns. Allison: Well, thank you for that. Before we call this podcast complete, what's one thing you want to leave people with today? Kris: Ooh, have fun doing this. Enjoy it. Like, follow the things and do the things that you really enjoy. And lean into that because when we're doing our own thing and we're paving our own way, we can feel like we have to do everything and wear all the hats and you just don't. You are totally in control and follow the things that compel you. \[00:33:00\] Allison: Exactly. I love it. Thank you so much, Chris. This is great. And for anyone who wants to connect with you. At RedDoorDesigns. com we'll have all the links that we talked about in this show notes. Thank you for sharing your genius and your kindness with everyone who has such a story to tell, such a message to share, and it only becomes wisdom when you share your knowledge. Kris: People need to hear your story and it deserves to be told and it deserves to be heard. Allison: Well, slam dunk. What a mic drop moment. Like, how? Yeah. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/stop-pressing-more-button-sales-leadership-bill-zipp ### Title: Stop Pressing the "More" Button and Start Leading with Bill Zipp ### Page ID: 7897249 ### Content: Stop Pressing the "More" Button and Start Leading with Bill Zipp Picture this: You've worked weeks to land a dream client. Multiple meetings, perfect proposal, everything's going smoothly. Then the final meeting arrives. The decision-maker sits down with every page of your website printed out and goes through it line by line, pointing out why you're not the right fit. This actually happened to my client Bill Zipp, a sales leadership coach. But instead of giving up, he used that painful moment to completely transform how he shows up online. Here's what Bill discovered that changed everything: ? Sales managers are pressing the "more button" (more calls, more meetings, more pressure) when they should focus on the "why button" ? His "referrals in reverse" strategy that turns LinkedIn connections into warm leads ? Why "selling by serving" beats traditional sales tactics every time The truth? Your website is either your best salesperson or your biggest liability. Bill's story proves that when your online presence finally matches your real-world expertise, everything changes. No more cringing when you send someone your website link. No more losing qualified prospects to confusion. Ready to stop pressing the "more" button and start attracting dream clients? Stop Pressing the "More" Button and Start Leading with Bill Zipp CTC Ep. 45 | Stop Pressing the "More" Button and Start Leading with Bill Zipp Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. It is my great pleasure to introduce you all to the amazing Bill zip. Bill was a client of mine several years ago now, and he was just such a delight to work with and we, I feel like we really bonded in our journey of working together and really. Transforming your messaging, upleveling your brand. I was just actually looking at your headshot yesterday because I was, um, at the website of the photographer that I use and I I saw that beautiful photo that we, that, yeah, that headshot that we took of you. So anyway, I just wanna welcome you to the show. Bill zip helps hardworking sales \[00:01:00\] managers become better leaders. Through his people-centered approach to performance, he helps his clients achieve double digit growth. And beyond. So Bill, welcome and tell us a little bit about yourself. Bill: I got started in this wonderful adventure of consulting over 22 years ago, believe it or not. Wow. I was really, really bored with my day job, and so I, I wanted to get started in consulting. It's super funny. I got a funny story. I, my wife and I talked about it for a long time and we announced it to the kids and my oldest daughter said to us, you don't wanna do that. I wanna go to college. So her, she was pretty sure that we went through that well, but it was the best decision I've ever made. And uh, although there's. Hard years up and down, you know? So I've been at long enough to wear the great financial meltdown, you know, that happened to seven, 2007, 2008. And then of course COVID and there's been other things, so, so there have \[00:02:00\] been ups and downs, but other than those things, it's been so much fun. Kris: Mm-hmm. Tell me, like, what was the process for you of really jumping off that cliff of paycheck from month to month employment to. You know, being completely self-employed and it sounds like you talked to your wife about it. And what was that process like for you to make that change? Well, So I'm one of these people that I'll jump off a cliff and then figure it out on the way down. So at first it was really foolish. We had savings of course, but that's about the only wise thing we did. So, um, and I, I just. I, I really tend to say, you know, the market is gonna tell you what, what you need, what you need to do. And so really you could sit behind, sit in an office and create a wonderful plan. But you know, it, it's, it's really real life. And so I, I went out and I coached. Any and everyone, this person and that person, small business and personal coaching, this \[00:03:00\] and that. And um, and in that process I really learned who I worked really, really well with and who got the most, the best results from my work. And, and so the last 10 years is about narrowing that target and narrowing that target and narrowing that target, knowing that that focus of who I serve. Best and for, for me, that made all, has made all the difference in the world. Kris: Mm. And so now your clientele is really specifically sales managers. Yes. Is that okay? Bill: exactly. Very, very specific. Okay. I found I could not compete in the sales training space, just Google sales training. There's thousands and thousands of sales trainers and books and training programs, and I just couldn't compete there. I have some. Ideas about that. And sometimes I'll end up doing some side work related to that, but it, it's not my thing. And I also discovered through working with a client actually on sales training, that if, \[00:04:00\] uh, and I'll say to my clients now, if, if you, if you roll out sales training and you don't train the managers, you're training your competition. Because if those salespeople have a bad manager, they will leave your company. And so that's kind of what I've learned. And first I stumbled into it, and then I've leaned into it heavily because leadership affects everything I. Kris: A hundred percent. And I think that statement is just so true and it's so strong and profound. And what a, what a wonderful way to like, make your point and make your case for why you're doing this work. Yes. What, uh, when you talk to a potential client on the phone, what are they, what are the, what mistakes are they making and what are they really struggling with? Bill: Yeah, so there's pain, and as you know, right, the, the, the, the hero would be completing the quest if it wasn't for the pain, the stuff that gets in the way. And so my, my clients, and that's why the word hardworking is in our positioning statement. My clients are working \[00:05:00\] harder, longer for less money than they made as a sales rep. As a sales rep, they sold, and if they were above goal, they were fine. Took Friday off, you know, or Friday afternoon off. And, but, but then they thought, hey, it'd be a great idea to be a manager. And now they're working harder, longer for less money. And so the, the problem is, is they haven't made the shift in their head that, no, you're a leader. And as a leader, you multiply yourself and others. You're not a super rep. Running here and running there and running here and running there trying to rescue as superman, the, the, the deals or the salespeople. And so really helping this, this pain of, of, of working harder, longer for less money, helping them really learn how to lead and when they learn how to lead life becomes much easier. Kris: Hmm. And so you talk to them on the phone and you're listening to them, their complaints, and they're probably like, why did I ever make this transition? And this is not sustainable. I'm burning out. Yeah. And, and what \[00:06:00\] happens next? Do they, you know, I, I'm curious how you position your offer and how they move into an engagement with you. Bill: Yeah, so mostly I'm not talking to my client. I'm talking to my client's manager, and so the, the frontline manager that's struggling like this doesn't have, doesn't have budget for it, and some, some will pay me out of their own pocket, but they don't have budget for it. I'll, I'll talk often with a CEO. Or a chief revenue officer, a CRO that's watching burnout in, in their, in their sales reps and or they're watching or watching revenue not grow because of, because of this worker working, working harder, longer. And, and, you know, and I had just explained to them just the, the, the, the, the, the wheel, you know, the, the, the wheel that go round and round and round and round. And they've probably lost some salespeople and they've. Had a few managers burnout and it just makes sense to get help. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so \[00:07:00\] yeah, so the, the people I tend to work with aren't the client that buys my services. Mm-hmm. And I know that's a tricky, a tricky dance, but I'll, I'll have an engagement with six coaching clients where one C-level executive will sign off on. Kris: Got it. Yeah, it is, it's tricky. But then ultimately, once they commit, then you've got. Yeah. A bunch of people you get to work with. Yes. One of, one of the things that we talked about in your messaging, and this came from you, was this idea of like pressing the more buttons. Yes. Stop pressing the more button. Bill: Well, it's funny, so I didn't make that up. So the, I think your best, your best wording comes from your clients and someone just told me that. Said, you know what? You've helped me in, you've helped me to stop, press the more button. And that, that's what sales managers tend to do. More calls, more meetings, more, you know, and they press the more button as opposed to pressing the why button. And the why button gets down to motivation and meaning and relationship and connection. And when you press \[00:08:00\] the why button, you get more. When you press the MOR button, you don't get anything after a while, just people. And so that was language someone shared with me. And then I've, I've made it part of my thing. Kris: Isn't that great like that? We don't have to always invent Yeah. The words that we use, I tell my clients this all the time, like really think back to the calls that you're having with potential clients. In their words, we wanna meet them where they are and use the language that they use. Yes. I think as, as coaches. We can often, like we're living and breathing this work all the time, so we can use language and lingo and we understand the nuances of the problem in a way that they don't even yet understand. So we can talk over people. Yes. And this, that simple statement just says, it says so much. And you talk a lot about using more of a people-centered approach. Yes. And tell me what, what does that actually mean? Bill: I ultimately, salespeople are people, it's hard to believe, \[00:09:00\] but they're people. And, and so if, if you're gonna get sales, you need to have people skills. You need, they need to trust you. They, they need to believe in you. You need to know what motivates them and have a connection with them. And, and so, um. It now, it people's not everything. I mean, ultimately you have to deliver on the number, but you deliver on the number through people rather than again, more and more and more and more and more. And so I always get started first with trust and relationship and connection and motivation and, you know, that that triad we worked on together, that, you know, you know, motivate and, and multiply multi, you know, so moving from the in, in inside out, so, Bill: motivate, mobilize, multiply. I forgot my own. Bill: motivate, mobilize, multiply. Yes. But it, it's from the inside out. Bill: Yeah. And, and you ultimately have to get, you have to hit the number, but, but you hit the number \[00:10:00\] through your people. Not, not by driving them. I mean, of course for your industry, but really for anyone listening, this idea of in order to make a sale, really you don't focus on the sale, you focus on the relationship that trust, that connection. It's, it's really around. That relationship. And I like to tell my clients, you're not trying to pressure them into saying yes. You're trying to guide them to a decision that's right for them. Yes. And if it's no, that is no, not necessarily worse than a yes. You know, you don't wanna, you don't wanna work with someone who is internally a no. But telling you Yes. So yes, Bill: and this is, this is what I refer to as selling by serving. Um, and so selling by serving in invol involves beginning to serve the client even before they have a financial relationship with you. And so it's \[00:11:00\] providing an upfront assessment for free. It's providing important pieces of intellectual property for free. It's front loading your client experience into the sales process. And for me, selling feels more off. Authentic and it feels it has less sleazes to it because really all I'm doing in the selling process is giving help. And if there's a connection in the course of giving help, we end up working together. Kris: Right? And what's beautiful about that is the person that you're helping actually gets to experience you solving. A micro or small problem for them, and they build that confidence 'cause they have that experience. Oh, bill helped me solve this problem, so if he can help me solve this problem, he can. So help me solve this problem. And what I love about that is, like, as entrepreneurs, we, we really do, we're wired to wanna help. This is why we're in the service business. We, we genuinely wanna help \[00:12:00\] people. And what that does is. Begins the relationship with generosity. Yes. And then they get this sense as humans, we do this. When someone helps us, we feel a sense of reciprocity. And so then we wanna also, they wanna help us too. And so for the right fit and we get to work here, I can, Bill: I can count on one hand in over 20 years that with a few fingers left, people that took advantage of that. Um, right there, there will be people that will have multiple free sessions and never, and never do anything and will, and, but very few people. There, there will be people and you set a few boundaries and you don't do six free coaching sessions. You don't even do more than two maybe. But, and, but mostly, mostly people will honor that and respect that. And it may still be a no, A person may say no, which is fine, but at least you felt. You gave first rather than to get And then also if a year from now they've \[00:13:00\] got this problem and they're ready wanting to solve it, you are top of mind when they're ready. Yes, yes. Yeah, Kris: Yeah, exactly. How, how does this look for your business, this idea of your lead magnet, or like how do you solve these micro problems for free? Bill: I, um, I, I think right now we have to figure out how to go to our clients. I think inbound is oversaturated and, uh, I, in the last few years, no one's signing up for an email newsletter. No one's, no one's subscribing to my YouTube channel. It's great YouTube channel, but no one's subscribing it, you know, it's not happening anymore. So inbound is broken. It's oversaturated, and people are crazy busy, so they're not doing that. We need to figure out how to go to them. This, this right here is a perfect example of going to them. And so if my clients were coaches who wanted to learn how to sell their services, I'd wanna get, I'm doing this as a favor to you. Um, but, but \[00:14:00\] you know, podcasts are a great way to go to people, I think. Um. I think speaking is a great way to go to people. I think, um, upfront assessments, offering an upfront assessment is a great way to go to people and then something I call referrals in reverse. And, um, we all know about asking for referral. People are too busy, they won't give you referrals, they won't think about it. They won't get, so what you do is LinkedIn's great for research. Go research the kind of client you wanna and then ask, Hey, can I reach out to this person and use your name? I cannot tell you how many times I've done warmed up, warmed up the call by saying, Hey, Chris Jones told me that we should talk with each other. And that's kind of a referral in reverse. I didn't make Chris Jones to do all the research. I did the research of this person that has a great fit, who, oh, by the way, is connected with Chris. Kris: Oh my gosh. That's brilliant. That's, yeah, that's really brilliant. Okay. Bill: Yeah. So on a, on an, on a, on an outbound week, on a week where I'm, I may \[00:15:00\] have a half a dozen to a dozen of those things, you know, Chris Jones, Chris Jones suggested we talk. Bill: no. Yeah. Uh, you don't, I mean, that's the depressing things about it. There is no magic bullet, but I'll get a response. Two or three times outta 10. Bill: Yeah. Well, that's better than a 3% open rate, right? Am I right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's crazy busy and there's no magic bullet, you know? Totally. Kris: And the work in, and you know. Th the thing I encourage people to do is really put the time and energy into something that you actually enjoy doing, right? Yeah. So link a, a quick message on LinkedIn takes little to no time. You've gotta do a little bit of research upfront, but podcasting, like, this is an hour long conversation, but what a, what a wonderful way. I don't. I would do the, I would wanna have this \[00:16:00\] conversation whether we were recording it or not. Right. Exactly. It feels fun and effortless to me, so that's kind of one thing I've leaned into just because I find it enjoyable. You don't have to do the things that feel like drudgery. Bill: Exactly. Yeah. Well, and see, and this is where you helped me so much, this is because what was happening is I, I know how to do all that stuff. I know how to do referrals in reverse and reach out to people. And I have the thick skin where I can send 20 emails in a day and not cry at the end of the day when no one's returned them. You know? So I, I'm comfortable with that. It's fine. I did it as a salesperson. What, what would happen is people would go to my website. It was a train wreck there. And so you do all this work to go, or, or you'd speak or do a webinar, do a podcast, well, where are they gonna go? They're gonna go to two places in this order, LinkedIn and your website. And, and people would go to my website and it was a mess, an absolute mess. And it was, it was unprofessional. And, and so \[00:17:00\] really what these assets do is they establish credibility. And you go to my website now and you go, whoa. Alright. He knows what he's talking about and I do, but I couldn't prove it before. Kris: Right. And and then your LinkedIn profile, we updated and Yes. Refined. So when they go to your LinkedIn and then they go to your website, it's all saying the same thing, which builds Exactly. Trust and credibility. Yes. The brand, the, the, the brand's the same. Like it feels like you have taken the time to. Show up online in a professional way, and that like those warm leads, if they listen to you on a podcast or listen to you at a talk that you give, you're right. I mean, that, that website is the center of your marketing universe. Yes. Everyone's gonna go there. They're, and they're either going to go there warm and then continue to reach out to you, or they're gonna go there warm and turn cold like they were doing Yes. Bill: Well, I don't think I ever told you this story, \[00:18:00\] but I had a. I had a perfect client and I had worked. I had worked weeks and weeks and weeks. I met with the CEO, I met with the sales team. I prepared a proposal the whole nine yards. It was, it was great and it was a great client. I'd be coaching a half a dozen people, which is kind of a sweet spot. It's a big. Big enough contract. Mm-hmm. And so I went into the final meeting where the owner of the company came and the final review, and she sat down in a conference room and she had printed every page of my website. Wow. And she went page by page by page through it and said, this isn't sales. Well this isn't sales. What's this blog post on getting in shape that's not sales. And when my when, and she goes, you're not what we need. Bill: I was so mad. I was, oh, my, I was so mad. So I, I went home and screamed and shattered and went to bed and woke up the \[00:19:00\] next day and said, all right. Kris: Right, right. You only learned that lesson one time? Bill: Oh yeah. It was just like, oh man. Oh, who prints every page of a website? You know, there's stuff in there I didn't know was there. And she goes, totally, you can't help us. None of this stuff says what you do. Kris: Yeah. Yeah. You were, when you, by the time you came to me, you were really motivated to turn things around, clean things up. Kris: Get really clear on how you present yourself. Yes. Bill: And, but I, I was, it's funny, I was clear on, I know I knew who I reached and I knew I was good at it. And so you can't write a story for someone that doesn't know that information. You know, and so what you really helped me do is write the story for the kind of client I knew I was really, really good at. Bill: Yep. That's what's super important is I knew I wasn't gonna do sales training. I knew that was a black hole for me. I, 'cause I couldn't \[00:20:00\] compete, but sales leaders, yeah. Most sales training tag on, you know, a 30 minute session on. Sales management. So I, I knew I had that wonderful gap in the marketplace I could exploit, and I needed someone to tell that story, not for me, but using my, using the, the, the gritty details of, of, of my experience to get that into a great story. Kris: Right. Uh, your story is not something that's like written or invented. I, I really feel like it's already inside your head and your heart, and it's my job to really mine for that gold that's already inside yourself. So a lot of my clients and, and you included like. Their current website or their old website, when they share it with a potential client, they have this feeling of like, cringing, embarrassment. It, it's, it's not aligned properly with who they are. So it sounds like you really were at that place with your old website. How does it feel, \[00:21:00\] what's it feel like now when you're sending someone your link or telling them to go visit your website? Bill: Oh yeah. It's not, I, I'm not afraid. Um. You know, every, we all lose clients. All right. So not every do that, we're on, but it's not because I'm, I look unprofessional, you know, so, yeah. You know, but I get more than, I, I, I don't, so I, I get much more than, than I lose, but I, no, I have no, I have no fear that when they go to a website, they're gonna get a conflicting message. Right. I don't look like that picture, though. Bill: don't think so. Just the other day I was thinking, I wonder if I should redo the photos. Kris: Well, I mean, you certainly can. Um, I'm sure Brian would love to to reconnect with you and, and do another shoot, but you don't look like you've aged in my Oh, Kris: So \[00:22:00\] you've talked about, um, you mentioned earlier about this idea of really figuring out what you're gonna do based on what people are telling you that they need. Yeah. I wanna hear how. Once you honed in on coaching, 'cause I know when we worked together, even some new offers bubbled up and some new ways of working with clients. How has that evolved from where it was to where it is now around? Yeah, Bill: it's so, it's very interesting. Um, uh. I, I, I thought, and this is where the market teaches you, I really thought that training leaders would, would have a, would, would have a launch for me. And it just simply had, hasn't, um, people, and, and they've told me this again. No. Like, for example, I did a huge training two, three years ago at a sales kickoff for the leaders. And do you know what the complaint was? We didn't get enough time with Bill. We want more one-on-one time with Bill, because I had this question and I had this question and I had this question. I almost, I \[00:23:00\] almost do no training at all. My work is very customized, very one-on-one with leaders who are very motivated. And so, um, and then after COVID, we, I, I ended up doing this around the world, so, you know, four or five coaching sessions a day all around the world. Almost every week of the month, it's, and it's extremely enjoyable because it's not doing the same thing over and over again. Right. And you're meeting actual real needs and so, mm-hmm. Very little now, very little training. And I, I, I actually think that's my best foot forward 'cause I'm kind of zingy in a room and, you know, fun and all. But I mean, who wants to travel anymore? I mean, there's all kinds of things that, that I don't have to do now, and it's a lot, a lot more, tons more effective. I, I think people are looking for bespoke solutions is I think what I've, what I've discovered through this and um, 'cause every situation is so different that they're looking for something highly customized. Kris: Oh, I, I \[00:24:00\] couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I was literally talking about this earlier today that I think people are burnout or maybe like a lot of the group work has jumped the shark a little bit. I think, um, people have joined group. Trainings programs and not felt like they got the attention that they were really hoping for. And, and the reality is like there are probably a, a dozen different problems that you know how to solve, and people come to you with those over and over again. But everybody feels like their situation is really unique and in, in, in many ways it is. But that's why. For my business, I've intentionally kept the one-on-ones because my clients are like, they want Yes, the deep, they want the deep work to move the needle. And, and I love it too, like, I love like going deep and really taking things off their plate for them. Like everyone's \[00:25:00\] working so hard. And if I can, if my work can remove things from their plate and give them. More energy, more lift, more confidence, um, then we both feel good at the end of that. Yes. Yeah. Bill: And then, I don't know if you found this, but I find this every once in a while, there's something you've never seen before. It's like, oh my gosh, yeah. I've never seen this before. I need to solve this. Yeah. And so some of my greatest content has, has come from stuff that. I'd never seen before, you know, and I'll go out and research and I'll solve it for 'em. And then it obviously becomes part of your library. Now you don't solve 12, you solve 13 problems or 14, 15 problems. So that's what's fun about the one-on-one work too. You, every once in a while you get stumped and that's great. Kris: It, it really is great. I, I have that happen. Pretty regularly. It happened last week where I was like, wow, this project is taking me a lot longer than normal, because it was a little bit of a different flavor than a lot of, um, clients that I work with. And I loved every minute of it. \[00:26:00\] Like I, I knew it could be done, and I was like chewing on that bone until I figured it out. It's like, ah, yeah. Tell me about a memorable client that you've worked with that doubled or even tripled revenue and, and how that unfolded. Bill: Um, so I do a lot of work. It's not exclusive yet, but I do a lot of work in Series A and series B private equity firms. And, um, I, I didn't seek them out. I kind of stumbled into them, but when, when private equity chooses to invest in a company, it needs to double or triple in three years, they want their money out in three years. And, and so I. I help leaders do that through, through being great leaders, great managers, not being freaked out about that pressure. And it's common now. It's just common now to have that, that 20% year over year, and mostly because it has to \[00:27:00\] happen. Private equity will pull its funding. And, and so I, I did it at Concur and then I did it at Nintex and I've done it with recast these, these mostly SAS software firms that get an injection of money. And enough of the p I've worked with that. I get a call when that money rolls in and we get working. Kris: Mm mm Yeah. When the pressure's on you, you do that. It, it reminds me of like, um, public construction projects, like when there's a deadline. Yeah. And when there's like a bonus if they finish the project by this date. Right. They'll do, they'll get it done if there's no bonus, like it could keep going and going for months. Bill: Oh, and the narrative that there are these evil public equity firms that are stripping the value. Yeah. Maybe they exist. I'm sure they do, but that's not what's going on here. These, these companies are investing money to grow really effective software companies, and this becomes life changing money. Mm-hmm. I, I've worked with people that \[00:28:00\] have, uh, will never have to work again. Oh. 'cause they had, because they had, you know, a stake in the, you know, had an equity stake in a, in a company and, and so, you know, and. It, it can be really life changing and also you don't double and triple money by, by beating up people and then you rotate a sales staff one year and then another sales staff and another. You can't do that. The only way to make that kind of money is have a people centered approach and, and helping your people become the very best version of themselves. That's what works in the highest stakes sales organizations. Kris: Mm-hmm. That's beautiful and I think that that trickles down to kind of. A business at every level. Yeah. If you've got your team, you know, you really wanna nurture the team rather than, than. Pressure them or push them. Bill: know, we have a number to hit. Right. So it's this, it's, I there's this thing where, yeah, and, and we all know that, uh, the board has told us we need to do X by then, \[00:29:00\] so let's go do it and let's have, let's have fun and let's be our best. It's, it's interesting right? Because the number's not irrelevant. Bill: Alright. And so, you know, no life changing money 'cause you have an equity stake in the company that this is real, but you don't get there by freaking out. Kris: Right. Right. Exactly. And you can, to your point, you can have fun along the way. Kris: So as an entrepreneur, what I wanna hear from you is what's one bit of advice that you'd like to share with our listeners about being an entrepreneur and what's helped you do so well over the years? Yeah, Bill: yeah. The number one thing is get very, very clear on who you serve. And, and, and the people you best serve and the, the work you best do. That made all the difference. I mean, all the difference for me. And then every, you align, everything LinkedIn and your website and your signature and everything you do. But for \[00:30:00\] me, I was an inch deep and a mile wide, and I was here and there, and here and there, and here and there. When I got an inch wide and a mile deep, it doubled and then tripled my business. I, I got very, very clear on who I serve, who I was best with, and, and, and how I helped them. And I. Everything flows from that clarity. Kris: Mm, it's so good. And I think that you've touched on a common fear around that a lot of coaches have around, like, I don't wanna leave people out, but I, I, technically I can help this person with this and that person with that. Technically I can help them, but, so I don't wanna like not, you know, talk to them, but be very clear about the problem you solve and who you solve it for. Solve one problem. That's really the key. Bill: Yes, no. And yeah, I, I could coach technically a lot of different people, but the thing is, I'll be a generalist and not a specialist. And as the specialist is where, where you, well, for example, you'll discover, oh my gosh, \[00:31:00\] you know, there's this thing going on here right now, and I'll go solve that. I wouldn't find that out if I wasn't a specialist in that area. And then you become, and, and you just don't become a, a, a mile deep, but two and three and four miles deep and then, you know. You know, so it's super, it's really important to get clear and, and, and part of that clarity came from the marketplace, all right? So we don't like, alright, find what you love and do it, I guess. But also if what you love everyone else is doing, you gotta find, you gotta find something you also love. 'cause so part of that it, you know, I mean some of this was a strategic analysis too. Like, alright, I'm never gonna be able to break into the sales training, you know, so finding. Finding what you love within the gap that exists in the marketplace is a, is is maybe the completion of the sentence. Kris: Hmm, absolutely. Yeah. I think you really hit the nail on the head. Earlier when you said you started out just kind of doing a little bit of everything, you tried it all right? Yeah. \[00:32:00\] You, and you, you can't skip over that part. Like it's, that's the part of getting your business going of Yes. Trying out, trying out, trying on different outfits. Right. Trying out different clients, different, solving different problems. And then eventually. Narrowing and narrowing Yes. Into your, you know Bill: don't know, but I think we have clothes. Well, and, and let me tell you, so, so they're, I, I learned this lesson very real in the last year or so. So some of my clients have recommended that I work with their CEO and so I, this last year I took on two or three CEO engagements and none of them got renewed. Um. Why, because that is outside of my focus. I don't, I've, I've not been A-C-E-O-I-I, I've not worked with a board of investors. I've not been responsible. I've, everything in my life has been sales, sales management, sales \[00:33:00\] strategy. And I actually, I had this pit in my stomach as I got, as I was anticipating my coaching sessions with the CEOs. And so. I don't do that. I'm not gonna do that work anymore, even though I'm asked to. I'll go, yeah. Um, but I'll recommend you to someone. And so I kind of migrated out of my inch, a wide mile deep. And I pay, you know, the company didn't collapse or anything, but it, it, I didn't have my best foot forward and I don't believe I served my clients well. Kris: Right. Right. You dipped your toe into kind of new territory to try it out, and if it had worked great, that could have been an expansion for you, but you gotta follow the body telling you no, no. That that hit in your stomach. Yeah, Bill: yeah, exactly. Right. Something I just, I get sales. It's intuitive to me. Right, right. Kris: So I am, I'm revising my outfit metaphor to That's awesome. To an \[00:34:00\] IPA metaphor. You, you tasted some different I IPAs. Yeah. You taste, you tasted a Belgian and you said, no, I'm going back to my IPAs. Exactly. Bill: Exactly. Then you, then you, then you tasted a, a suite IPA and said, no. Bill: I want the hops exactly right. No, trying on an outfit's just fine. I was giving you a hard time. I Kris: know, I know. Alright, bill, it has been such a delight to talk with you today. Tell my listeners where we can find you. Bill: Oh. Bill zip.com. Two Ps, bill zip.com. It's not hard. I was blessed with a weird name Kris: and you have been very consistent with your branding over the years. I revisited everything before our conversation today, and it's just, it's, you've stuck to the plan and I think it's working for you Bill: well, because you get bored and that's not No. You get bored and then change everything. No. You know, a, a, a long, you know, a long walk in the \[00:35:00\] same direction. You did the work. We did the work together. Trust the messaging and let it do the work for you. Don't spend your time refining, tweaking, refining, tweaking, like, Kris: exactly right. Say, of course. Cool. Alright, bill, thank you again for your time today. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/website-not-converting-structure-youre-missing ### Title: Website Not Converting? Here's the Structure You're Missing ### Page ID: 7964266 ### Content: Website Not Converting? Here's the Structure You're Missing Most coaches and consultants I talk to are **embarrassed** by their websites. They avoid sending people there. They know something's off, but they can't quite put their finger on what. Here's what I've learned after 23 years of building websites: **It's not about the design. It's about the structure.** Your website could have the most beautiful color palette and stunning photography, but if the structure isn't right, visitors will leave without booking a call. In my latest podcast episode, I walk you through the **exact StoryBrand structure** I use to transform websites into client-booking machines. This is the same framework that's helped my clients: ? Finally feel confident sending people to their website ✅ The one-page strategy that makes booking a call feel natural (not forced) ✅ Why your call-to-action isn't working (and the simple fix that changes everything) ✅ The "What's at Stake" section that gently moves hesitant visitors to take action No more guessing. No more cobbling together advice from ten different sources. Website Not Converting? Here's the Structure You're Missing CTC Ep. 45 | Website Not Converting? Here's the Structure You're Missing Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Speaker: Today we're gonna talk about how to turn your website into a client generating machine Using StoryBrand, your website should act as your top sales employee, and if it is not doing its job, I'm gonna break down the exact structure that I use to fix that for good. I'm gonna be answering today some of the most common questions that I get. So let's dive in. In the last episode, we talked about the importance of a three step plan, and at this point I've walked you through. How to communicate the problem that you solve and really let them be clear on what you are gonna provide for them. What is the bright future that is in store for \[00:01:00\] them if they work with you? So you've worked through your three step plan, and I don't want you to skip that part. So if you haven't listened to that, go back to the last episode and check that out. Once your plan is in place on your website, it's just three simple steps. It begins with the main call to action. And then step two is always engaging in work with you. And then step three is all about that happy end result that they're gonna get. So what is the carrot at the end of this? And you need to remind their brain that that isn't. So far off, it's not gonna be as hard or as complicated as they might think it will be. The reason the plan is so important is that it queues up you calling them to action. So when they read the plan, you essentially are calling them to action at that point. So that means. They're gonna click on that button. That is the next step to engaging with you. For most coaches and consultants, that would be \[00:02:00\] booking a call with them. It might also mean buying your course, joining your program, but these days people are really. Hesitant to just hand over their money and they typically need a call with you, even a short one, um, before they're gonna decide to move forward. So the next step for you on your website is to get really clear on your call to action. Um. The mistake that I see a lot is that you have multiple calls to actions and it might be learn more, check it out, let's connect. and what you're really doing is putting the burden on the visitor to figure out what they need to do next. And if you're gonna step into this story as a strong guide. You don't want it to be a choose your own adventure experience for them. You want to very clearly with the call to action button, tell them what the next step they need to do. And I want you to, to, once you get clear on this button, \[00:03:00\] I want you to repeat this through the page. Pretty much in every section of the page needs to end with the call to action. but especially the end of the plan needs to end with that call to action. So. A good call to action is always showing them that if they click on that call to action, they're gonna get a benefit from it. So, for example, the call to action on my website is book a money making and messaging call. Prior to that, I had my main call to action, which was book a Clarity Call. And while that does infuse a little bit of a benefit to it, I will tell you the minute I changed my call to action to book a money making messaging call my, my calendar started to get booked out. So that's really, you know, a tangible change when you implement this approach. So, for example, I'm working with, a leadership consultant right now, and his main call to action is book your leadership strategy session. When you use \[00:04:00\] words like strategy in your, in your call to action, that really shows value, it shows that they're gonna walk away from this call with. Something tangible, something of value, they're gonna have insight around a strategy. And so they're much more likely to click on the call to action if you do infuse a benefit into it in that way. And this does not mean that you have to give away free coaching calls. It really is an opportunity for you to get on a call with them, for you to listen to what they're struggling with and, and also for you to walk them through your process. just. Them understanding what your process is is a huge benefit to them for, to have them understand how it's gonna work, um, what working with you is gonna look like. That is a huge Ben benefit. That is them beginning to understand the strategy that they're gonna be able to implement. So, again, a great example of that is book your leadership strategy session or book your time management \[00:05:00\] breakthrough call. something along those lines is gonna be way more effective for you than learn more. Or, let's connect or contact me. You can really. I think it's really clear the difference between those two things. So we wanna repeat that call to action throughout the page because we never know at what point in the page they're gonna be ready to take action. So don't feel like you have to use your call to action sparingly. Be abundant with it. Put it in every section on your page. So. Part of the plan allows them to really understand what's gonna happen after they click on that call to action, so they know, okay, first I'm gonna have this strategy call with you, and then the plan shows them what it's gonna be like to engage with you, and then they understand by step three they're gonna get to experience that happy end result and engaging with you, of course, is gonna be more complex like that. The, the, the details of step two don't need to be, you don't need to be too detailed in this section. You just need to \[00:06:00\] show them that work with me one-on-one to get the support that you need, will work through the things that, are keeping you stuck and we're going to move forward and get you to a better place. So. that is the key behind your call to action. The other thing to keep in mind for the call to action is, to make it the brightest color in your palette. If you have a neutral palette of beige and grays and blacks and whites. There's no problem with having that as your palette, but I would really encourage you to pick a bright color so that button pops off the page. The call to action is the whole point. Everything we do in in telling your story is in service of them clicking on the call to action. So we want that to be a nice, bright color that their eye naturally gravitates toward. So. If they have read the plan and they have not clicked on the call to action yet, I like to follow this section with testimonials and \[00:07:00\] testimonials. That's an overused word, but really testimonials are proof that you know what you're doing. They're proof that you have solved this problem for other clients andSomebody who's visiting your page, it's very natural for them to hesitate before they click on the call to action because they're moving into new territory. And so we really wanna reassure them that this is gonna be be worth their while. Number one, they're gonna get a benefit. They're gonna get a benefit from talking with you regardless of, of if they work with you or not. and number two, they're reassured when you follow that call to action with three very short, brief testimonials proving that you have solved this problem for other people that are in their position. So you really wanna follow it up, follow it up with. Building trust. another thing that you can follow up the plan with is really an infographic showing your unique way of doing this. This is like. I believe in the power of, of a, \[00:08:00\] an infographic that shows your signature approach or your unique way of doing things. This is a way for you to stand out from all your competitors, and if you don't feel like you have your own unique way of doing things, trust me, you do. You just haven't identified. Yet, most of my clients come to me and they say, I don't really have my own unique way of doing things. I think I just do things like everybody else. And I say, no, you don't. We work through the Mining for Gold process, which is me really digging into their business, digging into them, as a coach or consultant, digging into their clientele and really uncovering what is their unique way of doing things. AndIf you don't feel like you have any unique process, one way to uncover it would be, what are the three things that you combine or that you bring to the table? What are the three ingredients that come together that allow you to get the results that you get? After that section, we want to have a section that \[00:09:00\] talks about what's at stake. If they do nothing, if at this point on the page they have not taken action yet, this is a, a point where you gently put your hand on their back as a coach, as a consultant, and you just share with them if you don't take any action. Nothing's gonna change, and things are gonna pretty much stay the way they are. If your clients are on the verge of burnout or if your clients are struggling with their weight, or if your clients are, um, having di difficulty professionally getting their team to rally around their vision. If they don't do anything, if they don't get help, if they don't get guidance, or if they don't get your support, a year is gonna go by and they're gonna be exactly where they are now. So a great example of this. This is a, a recent project that I've been working on with a, a really incredible coach and consultant named Mel and our What's at at stake section \[00:10:00\] reads like this. Don't risk being comfortably miserable a year from now. His clients are miserable, but they've gotten comfortable with the misery. It's kind of like that, that frog in boiling water. And this happens kind of in every area of life where our clients or our heroes have been struggling with the thing that they're struggling with for so long. That they've gotten used to it and they've gotten kind of comfortable with the misery of it. So we wanna gently put our hand on their back and say something like, don't risk being exactly where you are a year from now. So for Mel, it was, don't risk being comfortably miserable a year from now. And then we always follow that up with together will. Overcome this challenge and get you to a point of success. So for Mel, we've got together we'll remove the obstacles, holding your organization back and replace them with proven best practices so you can lead with confidence and deliver \[00:11:00\] results what they, what his clients want more than anything. Is to lead with confidence and deliver results. So we, we infuse those benefits throughout the page so their brains constantly know exactly what's in it for me, what's in it for me, what's in it for me? Our brains are, are asking that question all the time, and it's not because. We're selfish or narcissistic. it's just because that's how our brains are wired. We're wired to wanna survive and thrive. And when your messaging is constantly telling them, this is how I'm gonna help you survive and thrive, your. Page is gonna become in your website as a whole, is gonna become much more effective at getting people to click on, on the call to action. So for the what's at stake section, I want you to answer the question, what really happens if your potential client does nothing? What's their life gonna look like? And we don't need to be pushy in this \[00:12:00\] section. We don't need to be. Overly doomsday, but we want to be gently honest with them. again, imagine putting your hand gently on their back and just reminding them of what is true and what's gonna happen if they don't take any action. So. When you go to a movie, for example, every movie has stakes and usually at the be, well, always at the beginning of a movie, a hero is introduced. A hero has a problem they don't know how to solve, and then they meet a guide who can help bring them to success. And we follow in StoryBrand, we follow that, that same flow if there is nothing at stake. Then there is no story. if this were not part of every movie, you would get up after five minutes of watching the movie and leave. You would leave the theater, you would turn the TV off. Stakes are the thing that keep our brains engaged in the story, and when it comes to your website, stakes are \[00:13:00\] the thing that are gonna really keep them. On the page, keep them engaged in your story, and that's really what we wanna do. So typically after the stakes section, the natural question that they're gonna have is. Okay. I'm, I'm ready to take action. I'm in, how do I work with you? And that's when we wanna move into your suite of offerings. And every coach, every consultant needs a suite of offerings. And typically they begin with a very, like a low, lower budget, low stakes engagement. Of like a 90 minute intensive or a one month engagement. It doesn't cost too much money. It's great for people who are on a budget or people who are really cautious, they're really unsure, um, and maybe not, not ready to fully dive into a bigger engagement with you. So we wanna make the tier one of your suite of offerings veryEasy to engage with. So for my client, Mel, we have his lower ticket \[00:14:00\] is a strategic leadership intensive, and this is, done via Zoom. It's done in a day. it's deep engagement with him and it allows him to get to know the client and for him to really move the needle for them in a bite sized. Chunk. and so lots of people are gonna get, engage with him in that way. tier two is a little bit of a deeper engagement for a lot of coaches. The tier two, of your suite of offerings is gonna be a group program. It might be a longer engagement, it might be a, a three, four, or five month engagement with a group, a cohort of people who are navigating this same challenge. And then tier three of your suite of offerings is gonna be a higher ticket. And this is typically, again, your, everyone's business is different, so yours might be different from this, but this is kind of. What happens for most coaches is that their tier three offering is one-on-one. It's a longer engagement, so it might be a six month engagement, it might be \[00:15:00\] one-on-one work together. It doesn't necessarily have to be every week. You can choose the pace at which you wanna work with your clients, so a nice like range of prices. And usually that middle tier is the one that people gravitate to. So. Your tier one might be more of like a $2,500 engagement. Tier two might be more of a $5,000 engagement, and tier three might be a $10,000 engagement. So that's kind of how those all flow together. what I wanna, what I wanna walk you through next is. How does this all work together? So over the course of a few episodes, I have walked you through all the components that you need on a StoryBrand website, we start with that header section that communicates what you do, how it's gonna make my life better, and what you want me to do next with that really clear, bright colored call to action. Then we move into the problem section really articulating their problems. So. Really, they can feel seen and \[00:16:00\] heard and not alone in their struggle. Most importantly, when we can articulate their struggle, well, they automatically think that we are the best ones to solve it. And so when they have that feeling, they get very engaged in this story. And then we immediately wanna follow that up with what does their life look like? After they've worked with you, after they've engaged with you, what is their life gonna look like? So we wanna paint a picture of a brighter future. So I'm kind of walking you through the order of the homepage from top to bottom. I'm a big believer in a one page website, and when I say that, it doesn't mean you only have to have one page on your website. What it means is that on one page, a visitor can gather all the information that they need to confidently take that next step to work with you. So often we, our upper navigation is. Just abundant with, lots of different pages. And what we end up doing is sending people on a scavenger hunt to go gather the information they need in order to understand \[00:17:00\] what it is that you do and how you work with your clients. So I'm a big believer in having your homepage do all that heavy lifting. For you. So ultimately all they have to do is scroll down the page. When someone's on your page and they're on their phone, looking at it via mobile. moving from page to page to page is very, very clunky, clunky. The scrolling action as they move down the page is very comfortable and very easy for them to do so they're gonna be scrolling down the page and the story is gonna unfold for them little by little as they scroll back in the day. The websites were just done differently. The more pages that you had, the more credibility you had, the more you were a real business if you had more pages. And that has completely, completely shifted. So what I do with my homepage now is instead of having your testimonials be. On a completely different page and siloed away, on a page that they might \[00:18:00\] not ever go to or get to. I integrate the testimonials on the homepage. Instead of your about page being on a separate page, I integrate that into the homepage, so all of it is there. Instead of your services being on a completely different page, we're gonna integrate that on to your homepage. So from top to bottom, I'm gonna walk you through each. Section of what needs to be on your page. The each of these are the components of story. Every component of story is like an ingredient in a big pot of chili. You can't pour chicken stock into a pot and heat it up and say, Hey, everybody, come, come to dinner. It's time to eat chili, but it's really chicken stock. You have to have all the ingredients of chili in the pot. That are cooked together to make the pot of chili. And the same goes with your story. You have to have every component of story on your page in order to tell a very clear and compelling story. \[00:19:00\] And if you're not familiar with StoryBrand, I'm just gonna walk you through what those components are. So It's gonna begin with the hero. We're gonna identify who the hero is. We're gonna identify the problem that they have. We're going to introduce you as the guide. As the guide. You're gonna give them a plan, the plan's gonna call them to action, and then when they click on that call to action, they're gonna be brought to success. And also you're gonna help them avoid failure. So all of those are kind of. Individual ingredients that need to be on your page. So for example, from top to bottom, I'm gonna walk you through Mel's. Website, the very beginning, that header section we've got. I help leaders build winning teams, strengthen culture and drive tangible revol, and drive tangible results, clear the roadblocks, and implement proven strategies that help your organization thrive. So that's the header we've just communicated in five seconds, what does he do? How's it gonna make my life better? And what do you want me to do next? That clear call to \[00:20:00\] action is there. At that first section book your leadership strategy session or whatever your call to action is in that bright color. So that is the first section on your page. Then we move into the hero's problem. We, we, for Mel, we talk about the overarching problem, which is many leaders invest in books, programs, and methodologies that. That aren't solving the real problems. So, and then we move into some deeper nuances about what they're struggling with. I'll give you a few, for example. Are you struggling with watching team conflicts destroy productivity and morale? Are you struggling with feeling frustrated that applied advice isn't delivering actual results? Are you struggling with an unhealthy culture that's draining your energy? Are you seeing problems constantly rise to your level instead of being solved below you? And then we move into the success section. So reassuring their brain, what's in it for them? \[00:21:00\] What's in it for them? What's in it for them? We don't want to hide this information. No one's going to engage with your page if you don't make it blatantly obvious what's in it for them. So. I like to move into this section with a philosophical statement that gets people really ral rallied around your greater vision. For Mel, we've got, you deserve a simple path to reaching your full potential as a leader while unlocking greatness and others. This is a philosophical statement. philosophical statements are really a great way to move into your success section. It's a great way to put. The stake in the ground around what you believe they deserve. And so we wanna have that right up top. Then we move into introducing Mel as the guide, and we do this with a video, having a video of you on your page. Absolutely essential. And it's such a great way to stand out from all your competitors. Most people don't have a video because. It's hard, \[00:22:00\] uh, recording a video of yourself is hard and uncomfortable for most coaches and consultants, and often we don't know what to say. And so what I do for my clients is I actually write that script for them. It doesn't have to be long. It's just about a minute, minute and a half long script, but so much comes through in video. That just doesn't come through in still photography in a, in a short video. They can get a sense of your confidence, your warmth, your empathy, most importantly, and all of that can come through on a very short video. I have found when my clients integrate this video on their page, conversions double. If not more. So that is an absolute, non, non-negotiable. You've gotta have a video on your page. Um, I always follow this section with a written few paragraphs that, again, talk about. You as the guide. Who are you? Why are you qualified? How much empathy do you have for your client? \[00:23:00\] The, the best way to step into this story as the guide is to really lead with empathy. Really confident guides don't need to brag or boast. They have such compassion and such empathy for their hero. They lead with that and within that, your confidence really shines. So following the video, we have a written version of you leading with empathy. For Mel, it was, I get it. Spinning your wheels with strategies that don't end up working in the real world is frustrating. And then we talk about him, his understanding of the problem, why it shouldn't be this way and the experience that he has. The other thing people really wanna know is what makes your approach unique? What are three things that make your approach different from everybody else? So that is all part of the guide section. And then we, we kind of end that section with. More authority. How many years have been, have you been doing this work? What kind of credentials do you have? Um, how many clients have, \[00:24:00\] have you served? We don't need to go heavy handed on this one. We just want them to check that box in their brain that you know what you're doing. Following the guide section is the plan. Now that you've entered into this story as the guide, your job is to call them to action, and the best way to call them to action or inspire them to take action on the page is to give them a very clear and simple plan. This is where that three step plan comes in. For Mel, it is step one. Book your leadership strategy session, and we have a description underneath that. Step two, get one-on-one consulting. And then we follow that with a one sentence description, and then step three, experience real results. So they know that there's the a carrot at the end of this and that the finish line is insight and they're very, very likely at this point to click on that call to action. So we wanna follow that plan with a bright button. Then we follow that section with testimonials that build trust and \[00:25:00\] show proof that you have. Solved this problem for many other clients. You don't need a ton of testimonials. You just need about three to really instill trust and confidence in the, in the potential client's mind. Then I like to follow this with a, a beautiful infographic, a visual that shows your unique approach. What are the three things that come together to make you unique, to get that, get your clients' results? So for Mill, we have the effective leader framework, an uncommon sense approach to breakthrough results, and we've got. You know, a Venn diagram here. So we've got clarity, which is diagnose the problem quickly. We've got culture, build a unity and high performing teams, and then we have courage, make the hard calls with confidence. So the three kind of magic ingredients that he uses, our clarity, culture, and courage, \[00:26:00\] and they work beautifully in an infographic. Okay. And then we follow this section with what's at stake. If they do nothing for him, we've got don't, don't risk being comfortably miserable a year from now. How powerful is that? Right. That is, if they haven't clicked on the call to action yet, they're very likely to do it at this stage where we introduce. The stakes, and then I follow this with your suite of services for him. He's got his low ticket, which is the one day intensive. Then we have the corporate fixer intensive, which is an onsite engagement. And then for him, the third tier is. Actually, 'cause he works one-on one-on-one with all of his clients. So the third tier for him, the third tier, the third tier for him is a leadership keynote speaking, and that starts at $15,000 for him. Um, Mel has a book, so we feature the book on this page \[00:27:00\] and that helps build authority and also gets people to buy his book. And then we have his freebie or his lead magnet. So some people are really gonna resonate with you, resonate with what you have to say, wanna be in your world. They might not be ready to take action. If they're not, then we want to. Offer them up a freebie or really a short training, a five minute training of a micro problem that you can solve for them. So for Mel, we've got five culture killers every leader must avoid in five minutes. Um, so this is gonna be a five minute training that's gonna help the viewer spot subtle mistakes that weaken teams and learn how to prevent. And learn how to prevent them. So, um, that's where we end the page. Also, the freebie is great as a popup, so I like to have it on the page. I also like to have it as a popup. Popups are kind of annoying, honestly. I know you, you know that, but they work, um, \[00:28:00\] and they really help people who aren't quite ready to book a call with us. Get to know us better, especially when we deliver the freebie via video. So it doesn't need to be long. It doesn't need to be overly detailed. Just as long as they can walk away from watching the video with one aha or a few tangible things that are gonna help them solve a micro problem, they're gonna have the experience of you solving a micro problem for them, which is gonna build a lot of confidence. That you can solve much larger problems for them. So that is step by step, section by section what you need on your homepage to get it working. For you to start booking your calendar out with, with calls with potential clients. Andthem booking a call with you is gonna be the fastest. Path to profits. People are holding onto their money a little bit more than they ever have. Almost every client I talk to has been burned before, and people are done with that. They don't wanna be burned and they need to build trust. So everything we do \[00:29:00\] throughout the page is about building resonance, building trust, really cultivating connection. And then they do need to get on a call with you. Most often. They need to get on a call with you if they're going to agree to work with you. So I hope that has been helpful. Um. This has been so much fun for me to walk you through like all the things that you need on your page to really turn your website into a top sales employee. It should be your most powerful marketing tool. And remember, think of your marketing as a universe. The sun is at the center of the universe and all the planets kind of circle around the universe. So your website is the center of your marketing universe. And everything you do needs to point back to your website, but what's the point? Sending people to your website if it is not set up to sell for you. So the planets around the sun, um, could be any kind of marketing activity that you find to be fun. It could be being on a \[00:30:00\] podcast or having your own podcast. It could be posting on LinkedIn. It could be in person networking events. It could be posting videos on YouTube. It could be blogging, it could be email marketing. Most of the people I talk to. Feel like they need to be on all the planets, but they don't. You need to pick two planets, two planets that you really enjoy doing that don't feel like homework, that actually feel life giving and fun to you. For example, my planets that I really lean into as far as how to drive traffic to my website. Our podcasting. Obviously I have my own podcast, but I love to to be a guest on podcasts because it allows me access to a completely different audience, and I get to borrow trust from the podcast host. They've spent the time building their audience, and then I come on. And I get to talk about the things that I love to talk about, which is story and how to tell a really powerful, compelling story in your business. And then all those people listening, not \[00:31:00\] all of them, but many of them end up booking calls with me. So one of my planets is. All about podcasting and another planet is email marketing, and this is just me growing my list actively and staying in touch with everybody. On my list regularly. Those are my two planets. I find them to be very fun, pretty easy. And, but that being said, you can pick your own planets. Um, the key with picking your planet is just make sure you're constantly pointing people back to your website. Once you get it tuned up with a powerful story, you're gonna feel much more confident sending people there. So, alright, I hope this has been helpful and thank you for being here. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris \[00:32:00\] Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/productivity-breakthrough-buffer-time-ai-kelly-fifield ### Title: The Productivity Breakthrough: Buffer Time & AI That Works with Kelly Fifield ### Page ID: 8005061 ### Content: The Productivity Breakthrough: Buffer Time & AI That Works with Kelly Fifield Your calendar is packed. Your to-do list never stops growing. And at the end of every day, you close your laptop wondering what you actually accomplished. Here's what I used to do: I'd map out my entire day, block every hour, and tell myself this time I'd stick to it. But the second something unexpected came up—a client call ran long, my kid needed me, an email required immediate attention—my whole plan fell apart. **Then I learned the secret that changed everything: buffer time. ?** Not another productivity hack. Not a better app. Just intentional space built into my calendar for when life happens—because it always does. That's exactly what my guest Kelly Fifield teaches overwhelmed entrepreneurs. And her story? She used to pull all-nighters just to keep up. Now she has a color-coded calendar, work-free evenings, and clients telling her they finally feel calm in their business. ✅ Why your calendar keeps failing you (and the one fix that changes everything) ✅ The mistake most coaches make that keeps them stuck in "always behind" mode ✅ How her clients are using AI to create content, design programs, and land more clients—without the tech overwhelm One of Kelly's clients told her his evenings are now completely work-free. Another is generating weekly newsletters and podcast content with AI while booking more clients than ever. This isn't about doing more. It's about reclaiming your time so you can actually enjoy your life. The Productivity Breakthrough: Buffer Time & AI That Works with Kelly Fifield CTC Ep. 47 | The Productivity Breakthrough: Buffer Time & AI That Works with Kelly Fifield Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Kelly, welcome to from Click to Client podcast. I am so delighted to have you here. Kelly Fifield is a productivity coach who helps overwhelmed entrepreneurs finally finish the projects that are keeping them from getting clients. And the best part is that she helps you use leverage aI to build systems that really create calm in your business and help you have more focused productivity. So Kelly, I'm thrilled to have you here today. Kelly: I am so excited to be here with you. We've known each other for a bit, so it's always so fun to connect with you again. So good. So tell us a little bit about \[00:01:00\] yourself. So I am now a productivity coach, but that all came from the disaster of productivity that I was in my early life, well full into my adult life. So that was. One of my biggest struggles was procrastination, getting things done, constantly working, uh, pulling all-nighters from the youngest age. I can remember my mom used to steal, take my books from me when I was little, so I couldn't study. I would have flashlights under my covers and would pull all-nighters all through. College was still doing it into my adult life, so I was a hot mess when it came to getting things done. Was. In some ways successful. Like I graduated first in my major from Villanova, so I was doing sort of well, but killing myself in the process. So at some point I was like, this is, I've gotta figure this out. I'm smart enough. There's no way I can't figure this out. And that's when I decided, okay. This is, it's time. I've gotta figure this \[00:02:00\] out. I can't die. Never figuring this out in just a hot mess. Kris: did you do that? What was the, the first thing that you did that started to shift this for you? Kelly: The thing that started the whole ball rolling was back a little bit before 2017. My husband got me hooked on audible books and I started down the self-development book. Um. Down that road and started consuming all of those books, and that's where I started learning more about neuroplasticity and mindset and all of these things. So in 2017, I said, that's it. I'm dedicating a full year to figuring out how to get good with time management, productivity and all of those things that wound up taking me slightly longer. Took me about six years, I would say, to figure all of that out. But at the end of 20, or in the middle of 2023, I was finally certified as a life coach and, and kind of in the middle there figured out that it was. Really changing the way I thought about everything. That was going to be the key to being highly \[00:03:00\] productive and really organized. I have this beautiful calendar now that's all colors and pretty, and, and I get things done and I'm relaxed in the evening, and I, it's just a complete 180. So, yeah, that's kind of the short version of, of the whole process. Kris: And give us some tangibles, like what, what began to shift for you when you started implementing? Kelly: Yeah, so the first thi the first time I felt amazing in the whole process was, I remember one day my daughter was in like middle school and she came home and she had had a bad day, and I had space in my calendar already dedicated to like time with fa like just like buffer time in my calendar. So I, I didn't, I wasn't like, oh my gosh, this now has blown up the whole rest of the evening. It was like I could sit with her and I was like, this is amazing. I feel like such a great mom. I feel like I'm on top of things. Uh, yeah, so it was that having \[00:04:00\] a plan going into the day, and then the most amazing experience was then ending my workday and closing my computer. Being able to shut off my brain to all work thoughts knowing that whatever needs to be done tomorrow is on my calendar, it's captured and I don't need to think about it at night. That was like the night and day experience that I eventually was able to create. Kris: I bet. I bet. Um, so you went through the life coach school, is that right? Yes, and I took a course way back when called Monday Hour one. I don't know if you've, if you've done that. Um, yes, but that was my first introduction into calendaring, you know, like writing everything down, mapping out the week around the things that you need to do, and that, that was also my beginning of like, ooh, how can I be intentional and how can I \[00:05:00\] now, like I used to live. Buy paper lists and the list would grow. I never, I, I never finished my list. It was just like this growing thing and I would kind of circle the priorities, but I never ever thought I'd get to a point where I didn't keep track of everything on paper, and I don't even know when it ended, how it ended. But eventually my calendar really became the place where if I, if I know I wanna get it done. I put it in my calendar and I just know it's, it's booked for that day at that time. And it, it, it's fascinating to kind of think back on that now of like, wow, that was a way of being that I was from as long as I can remember. Even a child, even in college. Even in, even in traveling in Europe, I had a freaking list of things that I wanted to do and, um, \[00:06:00\] and so. I will say one of the things in that, that, what would you call it? Like that way of managing my time, um, and I'm still not very good at this, and you just touched on it, which is. I plan out my days, but I don't plan for buffer time. Like if I don't get that thing done at that time, there's really no wiggle room. And, and so I love that you shared that example of like, oh, family time. Like there's all kinds of, of wiggle room within there. Whatever needs to happen, you gotta, you know, take your kid to. The doctor or whatever, it's, it's in there. And I think that's one of the things that doesn't get talked about a lot is when you're mapping out your schedule, I. To ma to plan for an hour or more each day just for like thing when shit hits the fan \[00:07:00\] or you get a call from the school or whatever it is, right. That's like, that's life and we can't plan for that, but we can give ourselves the buffer time for it. Kelly: Yeah. It is very hard to put in because most of us are probably thinking if I had a day that was. 52 hours long. I still wouldn't get everything done on this list, so it's really hard to put a block in there that. Is just open because you have a long list of things you'd love to put in there and get done. Yeah. But the truth is, almost every day, I'm sure for all of us, things do come up that weren't pre-planned and that we still wanna do. Like you said, your kid gets sick at school. It's like you're gonna say, well, it's on, on the calendar, you're gonna have to, you know, suck it up. gonna go get them. That is just how our lives are. We probably wouldn't want to live in such a vacuum that no one was ever contacting us and and requesting things of us. So if you can like start to track, well, \[00:08:00\] how often do those things come up? How much time do I normally have kind of come into my calendar sort of unexpectedly, but eventually you see. Pretty much every day, like if you work for someone, your boss might ask you to do things that take you maybe an hour, two hour, three hours a day. It's, it's kind of attempting to, to schedule the day without any time for that. But then when we do that. Those things come in and then it's more evidence for ourselves that we are constantly interrupted and scheduling doesn't work for us or something like that. We just perpetuate that story, whereas if we put the time on the calendar that we know is probably gonna show up anyway. Then you feel so cool when someone says, you know, your boss says, can you do this thing? You're like, yeah, I have a time block. Right. You know, prepared for that. And you're like, I'm someone who's amazing at calendaring, and you really can start creating that for you. Yeah. So you know, maybe as you start out with it, \[00:09:00\] prioritize your things through the day, have the lower priority things at the end of the day, and then just take those last couple things and put them on tomorrow for now. Create that spa, that block as, okay, this is now a buffer that I have for the day. And then if, if some miracle happens and nothing does actually come up for the day, you could always move those in, but, right. I'd rather see it on the next day and you feel like, oh my gosh, I'm ahead of schedule. Right. Rather than continuing to schedule in a way that you're always behind. Kris: Right. Right. Totally. What a good feeling to like move something like that you had planned for tomorrow to today and to get that done, like that's an extra little dopamine hit of like, I'm, I'm on fire, right. Schedule. Yes. Yeah. What are, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see coaches make around productivity and getting stuff done? Kelly: I \[00:10:00\] think it is all, it's all gonna come from the way we think about things. So for me, uh, one of the biggest mistakes I personally kind of almost fight with every day is the first. Thought. Usually that comes into my mind when I get to my desk in the morning is something in the lines of line, something along the lines of, there's too much to do. I should just get started. So my brain does not want to take that extra moment, review what I have on the calendar, maybe move some things around if things came up, whatever. It does not want to plan in the beginning of the day. And that's probably the biggest. Hurdle that a lot of us have to overcome is that chatter our brain is gonna offer us at the beginning of the day that we should just dive in and get going. Because at the end of the day, we, we feel like we've worked all day and probably didn't take a whole lot of breaks and we weren't sitting around eating bombon, but we can't remember. It's like the \[00:11:00\] day just. Flew by and we, we feel like there was nothing to show for it. Now if we went back and actually thought hard about what we did, we'd probably feel better about the day and be like, oh, I actually did do a bunch of things. But if we don't plan them intentionally, it's, it's usually ends in a way that we're not really happy with at the end. Kris: Yeah, that, that makes so much sense. I love what you said before too, about getting the harder things or the most important things done earlier in the day. 'cause if you leave them till the end, inevitably you're gonna be like, oh, I don't have time. I have to shift it. Um, one of the things I remember when I first started being intentional with my calendar was this feeling that I had. Had like failed at it if I had to shift things around or move things around. And I don't give that a second thought anymore, but I remember it took me time to like really get out of that \[00:12:00\] sense of like, oh, I'm not following my calendar. I'm doing it wrong and. Then I learned that like, oh, my calendar is here to serve me like I, I am. It's here to help me, and that's all it's trying to do. And if I need to shuffle a few things around based on whatever. Do it. It's my calendar. I am in control of it. So that was a big shift for me. So much self-compassion there. And that's so much better than beating ourselves up. 'cause if we do that every day, who's gonna keep doing that? Right? You're, you're like, that would be ridiculous if you kept having this horrible experience with your calendar every day. And then put yourself through it over and over again. And that's what a lot of us have. We maybe invest the time to schedule and then. Something like that. Like something comes up or you decide to move something and our brain says to us, oh, you're not good at this or, or you did something you hadn't planned, or some \[00:13:00\] crappy story, and then we give up on it because it's a really bad experience. But really you're, those decisions that you made about what you were going to do the next day we're just decisions. And you can totally decide something else in the moment. And you know, ideally. You wanna like your reason for doing it, but even if you don't like your reason, maybe you know you went down a rabbit hole that you hadn't planned it, it's much better to say, okay, let's see, what did I do at that time instead? Okay, I see why I did that. That makes sense. Our decisions always make sense. We're not doing anything, um, like crazy. We're not insane. If we did something that wasn't planned, we were thinking something that made us believe at that moment that that would be a better thing to do. Kris: Mm-hmm. Totally. Um, how do you help somebody who feels just completely overwhelmed with a project and doesn't, doesn't know where to start? Kelly: Yeah. If someone's feeling really overwhelmed, it's usually what I will have them \[00:14:00\] do is kind of just give me an overview of the project and then usually it's just talking through it a bit. Um. We, when we're thinking about a project, a lot of times if we don't, haven't put it out in paper and we haven't really planned it out, it's just swirling in our heads as this amorphous blob of confusion and, and anxiety, and it feels really heavy and big and awful. But usually once someone asks you questions about it. You start to get more clarity on it. So if someone's feeling really overwhelmed by a project, I'll just ask them some questions about it. And then as they talk it through, we can usually get down to, okay, so this is what the end result's supposed to look like. This is kind of what the, the middle's gonna look like. So where do you think we might start? And then, you know, we can get, get those initial baby steps. And then for most of us, once we get rolling, that's the hardest part, is just that initial momentum to get \[00:15:00\] the thing started. Kris: So let's talk about how you work with your clients. 'cause I want people to really understand like the nuts and bolts of what you do. And then I also wanna ask you like, what have you witnessed in some of your clients' lives as far as what they've accomplished and time that they've saved money that they've earned? Fill me in on that, but first break it down how you work with your clients. Kelly: Yeah, so I have, uh, kind of two ways that I work with my clients and it really depends on what they think would be most supportive for them. So I either work with them daily in little pieces where I check in with them every day and we review what they were able to accomplish the day before, what maybe got in the way. Maybe do a little bit of coaching on that. We talk about today's plan, try to overcome any obstacles in advance, and then once they feel good about their plan, they go off into their day and I hear from them the next day. So there's that daily accountability if someone wants someone to \[00:16:00\] kind of help them with that each day. That's one way that I work with clients. Uh, and then the other way is if that sounds terrible, I mean, some people are like, heck no. I don't wanna meet with anyone every single day. I'll meet with them once a week. And when we do that, it's usually more, um, project based. They're, uh, maybe wanting to, to work through some larger projects or maybe things that are involving tech. So I've worked with a lot of. Tech that online business owners work with. So I'm very comfortable with it and it's really nice for those clients maybe who aren't as comfortable with the tech to have someone write with them troubleshooting and getting things set up. So that's often what I do with them. And in both cases, inevitably AI becomes part of the process because I, I work so much, um, in the AI field that I can't help but suggest shortcuts using ai. Kris: Okay. Well, you led me right into my next question, which is what AI tools should somebody use if \[00:17:00\] they're just getting started with ai? Kelly: I would probably say if you're just getting started. Use chat, GBT. It's the one that everyone talks about. Um, there isn't anything wrong with doing some of the other big ones. If, if you've already started using Gemini or Claude, just stick with it. I wouldn't switch to another tool. Um, what often happens is people will start with one tool. And then they get like, so-so results. And then someone mentions another tool and they're like, I wonder if it would be better if I switch tools. And a lot of tools switching will happen. It's not the end of the world. Um, they're all pretty much the same. But the way that you'll get better is just by continuing to use it, test it, refine it, that sort of thing. So I would say just if, if you haven't tried any of them yet, just use chat GBT, just 'cause it's the most popular one. Got it. Kris: And tell us, like what have you, what are things that you can share with us that you've learned about \[00:18:00\] AI in the last six months that might be new to us, or, Hmm. Oh my gosh, that's fun. Kelly: Okay. So if you, um. Some of the cool use cases. So right now, all of the tools are getting better and better at integrating with the tools that you're already using. So like for example, if you have, uh, the paid version of chat GPT, you can connect that to Google Drive. One of the coolest things you can now do with that is use deep research within your own Google Drive. So if you have maybe. Hundreds of hours of podcast transcripts or lots of documents and PDFs that you've created in the past. You know, you have this gold mine of content, but it's kind of strewn haphazardly all over your drive. You can. Prompt AI and say, I want you to do deep research in my Google Drive and find any \[00:19:00\] files pertaining to whatever, and it will find all of them for you. And you could even say something like, and I want you to give me, you know, 10 blog posts, ideas that I could do from this or, you know, 20 podcast episode topics or whatever you're wanting. To use that information to create, you can kind of ask the deep research tool to do that. So that's one of my favorite, favorite things. That's relatively new. It just came out for plus users, it was in enterprise and teams, but now your average $20 a month person can use that. Kris: Cool. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I did not know that, that, that's pretty incredible. I've, I've noticed the, the, the image creation. Part of chat, GPT and some other tools is getting a lot better too. Kelly: Yes. Uh, chat, GPT recently got much better with that. What I'll sometimes do with chat GPT if I'm creating an image is I'll have it first, write the prompt to generate the image, and then I'll take that. I'll let \[00:20:00\] chat. GPT. Create the image. I usually don't get the best results from that. But then I'll go into other tools, like I love Ideogram. That usually, um, generates great images. I have, uh, gamma, I have a paid, um, account with Gamma, which does like. PowerPoint like presentations and if you have that, it comes with AI image generation. So I'll take the prompt that chat GPT wrote for me and put it over in Gamma just 'cause I'm already paying for it. And it, it integrates with Idio and Flux and a bunch of different, um, image generating tools. So I'll, I'll generate the images over there usually just 'cause it, it already has all of those tools in there. Got Kris: it. And as far as like. Are we at the, the phase right now where somebody could make a website with a click of a button? Kelly: Hmm. Yes and no. It's possible. Um, but I don't think it's advisable. \[00:21:00\] I think, I think you could do it and, but it's, it's, it's going to be hard to, uh. To create a good website, right? Like you could do it, you could, you could literally write a prompt and in less than five minutes have a functioning website. Functioning in that someone could go to the URL and see something, but is it going to convert? No. Right. I mean, that wouldn't make any sense. It, it's, it's, um, so yes, the, the technology is there to have AI generate a site, but I wouldn't trust the copy or anything like that to something that was generated in five minutes. Kris: yes. Yeah. So tell us, um, I, I wanna hear a story about a client. Uh, give, give us an example of a client that came to you. \[00:22:00\] Uh. Needed your help. And what changed for them once they were able to integrate these tools? Were they able to make more money or save time or achieve a goal that they'd been really working toward? Kelly: Yeah. So the first example that comes to mind is my client Chris. So he, we met, uh, a while back, uh, through Rick's program and he was talking about, um, his struggles with. Productivity working very, very hard, but just didn't feel like he was. Working at the pace that, like his hard work justified, it seemed like for the amount he was working. It just, he couldn't get caught up, couldn't get ahead, always felt behind. Um, so we've been working together and he, he's doing the daily accountability. Just the other day I was asking him like, how, you know, how, how's it going? Like how are your evenings looking? He has this spectacular calendar. He shows it to me every day where \[00:23:00\] everything is planned out and he's like, it's amazing. I, when I leave my desk, I don't think of work once, um, I, on the weekends when I'm with my family, I'm just with my family. So those are the types. Of results that make me so happy because I, I know what it's like to just never turn that hamster wheel that's going. Kris: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and really, like what could be more important, you know, when someone's on their deathbed, we hear it time and time again. I, I, I wish I had spent less time at work. I wish I had spent more time with the people that mattered, and partners and spouses and children, and this work that you're doing is really giving that to people. I think most entrepreneurs step into entrepreneurship because they want that kind of freedom and they want that control over over their Schedule and \[00:24:00\] come to find out, once you get into it, like, oh my gosh, the to-do list grows and the amount that's on your plate is more than you ever imagined. Because not only are you doing your job, but you're also marketing your business and you're also generating leads and, courting potential clients, like, it's very overwhelming. so what a gift, what a gift that you're getting to do this work, and it couldn't be more important. Kelly: Yeah. But it is, uh, it's just such a great feeling. And, and I have a, a client, Debbie, who is now getting clients. When we first started working together, she was very new to, uh, having her own business, but now she, it's amazing. She, um, helps, uh, grandmothers, uh, who are highly ambitious. Who are wanna be like that fun, energetic, high achieving grandmother. And she now is an absolute AI whiz. So we started kind of \[00:25:00\] working together. I introduced her to different things and custom GBTs, and now she designs programs with ai. She designs challenges with ai. She's writing weekly newsletters. She's using it to, uh, help produce her podcast content. Like she is just taken off with all of the tools and yeah, she, she was just telling me last week I got another client. So, uh, she's using it a ton to generate a lot of content, get that content out there. Kris: back to, uh, the images. So I have been recommending insta headshots.com to my clients, and it's like, um, a lot of my clients, they need an updated photo shoot, but they don't have time or they, they're on a tighter budget. And so I always recommend Insta headshots. I think it's dot com it might be. Mm-hmm. Ai. Um, and you get about 30 or 40 headshots and \[00:26:00\] there are lots of those out there. Curious if you like any different ones. I think your headshots on your website are ai, is that right? Kelly: And they are getting so much. Better. Yes. Like the, the speed at which they're getting better is, is pretty amazing. Like originally, in fact, if you look at the ones on my website, my face probably looks a little plastically. It's almost like, um, Play-Doh, if you, you'll look when you see AI had the chats. Yeah. The face looks a little bit Play-Doh like, um, or like silly putty, like, um, but they're, they're getting, I mean, it's amazing how much. How much those are improving to a point where you, you, it's really hard to tell if, if it's AI or if it's real. I had Kris: a client, uh, come to me and she had just spent $5,000 on business photography headshot, and the, the photos were great, like her outfits were fantastic and they were very professional, but she also did. Insta \[00:27:00\] headshots, ai, and I liked them even better. Wow. It was like kind of, kind of wild. Oh my gosh. One thing I haven't done yet is, AI video, like creating a video avatar. Have you gone down that rabbit hole yet? Kelly: I have not. I've, I don't think that I, I know the technology is there to do it, um, and I've seen. Examples of it, but like I just saw an ad that was Russell Brunson, uh, using an AI avatar of himself and you gotta figure if Russell Brunson's doing it, it's probably not a janky one. Right. It's probably a decent version of it. And you could tell it was AI and, and I. Imagine he wasn't intending for us to not think. It wasn't ai if I've used too many negatives there, but, uh, I've lost myself in the negatives. But, um, it was, it. It was \[00:28:00\] interesting because it, you know, it looked like him. It sounded like him, but it was just a little off. Um, so I think, I think it's possible right now, I think it will be a little bit off. Mm-hmm. But in some ways that's kind of interesting too. I love, love the ads that are babies or dogs. Do you ever get those? Oh my God, I love those. Oh Kris: yeah. They're so good. so if you could give just one piece of advice to help somebody break through overwhelm, overcome ai, you know, fear, what would that be? Kelly: If I went for ai. I would say to keep it simple and not worry about a tool and just pick whatever is next on your list for the day. And think for a moment, could AI help me with this? And just see, keep asking yourself, do I think it's possible that AI could help me with this? And \[00:29:00\] then just go to whatever tool and say, this is what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. Could AI help me with this? Can you help me with this? Mm-hmm. Um. It's getting over that. Overwhelm hurdle. I think with ai, I know for me when I, before I got into it, I was like, it's moving too fast. Uh, even if I work 24 hours a day, I could never catch up to it. Um, but it's just getting over that, that initial hump and, and jumping into it, um, and just try it on some things. Of course, people can reach out to me. I can help you overcome that little hurdle like you really. If you have a question like, could I use this or what should I use, or, which tool don't and do not pay for any tool, start out free. You do not need any of the paid tools. Definitely go on the free ones. Kris: You know what I'm finding? Claude Claude's always been very friendly, conversational, very affirming. Chat. GPT not so much, but now chat, GPT is becoming that way. Funny. Like very \[00:30:00\] conversational, a lot of fun, um, kinda sassy and I think that that's something that humans enjoy and like, and I think knowing that like, oh, you can think of this as a helping friend who's actually gonna have a little bit of personality and help you feel good when you're frustrated. That can kind of lower the barrier to entry too. I think that's kind of like one of those delightful surprises that can happen. Like, oh, this thing is actually chatty a little bit with me and kind of funny and affirming. Yeah, that might be a Kelly: really fun way to, to dive into it too. Don't use it for work. Use it for, uh, you're frustrated, you are driving to the soccer field again, 'cause your child left their cleats in the back of your car or something. You know, and just say, yeah. Listen, I just need you to be here, uh, as a friend and I just wanna vent about this and, and it, it'll chat with you. And I know that sounds a \[00:31:00\] little bit weird, but by the time you get to the soccer field, maybe you're, you're a little kinder, so they really can work well for that. And if you do, try that. Use the app on your phone and use the voice mode. It's really fun to have a back and forth conversation. Kris: That's so cool. Alright, so where can people find you and do you have any. Freebies that you wanna share with us today? Yeah, Kelly: I have if you're, if you're looking to connect, uh, I'm on Instagram at Productivity Genius coach. Um, if you're a life coach, I have a free community where I help with AI and, and some accountability on school. Uh, it's the life coach community and I have, uh, a free resource. It's 90 days of, uh, content in 20 minutes, so that'll get you started. Creating social content and emails and things like that, so I'm sure that'll be linked in the show notes. Kris: Wonderful. Kelly, thank you so much for being here. This is such a joy. Thank you, Chris. This was great. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform \[00:32:00\] your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-jan ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Jan ### Page ID: 8007348 ### Content: ## Ever put money into something month after month that just isn’t working? ## "I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! ## This created an income for me that can help me live my best life. I get tingles when I know things are right. And I have that happening right now." #### –Jan Reed, Coach She’s a life coach who helps people navigate deep loss. She built her site herself and thought it looked fine. But deep down, she knew something was off. “It was getting me nowhere. I was putting money into something that wasn’t giving me a return. I thought, what’s the point?” It made her feel like *she* wasn’t being taken seriously. “When you explained what you could do, I loved your belief in what I was doing. That made me want to keep going. It was like a ping—yep, this is what I need.” Jan and I went through my Signature Story-Selling System together, and Jan described it as “a journey.” One that gave her clarity about who she helps, how she helps, and why her story matters. ✅ On launch day, someone reached out ready to work with her ✅ She booked a strategy session immediately (a first for her business) ✅ She went from wanting to give up to feeling joy and satisfaction again “Everything is working out for me. That had never happened on my other website, ever.” The transformation wasn’t just more leads. It was deeper than that. “The word joy keeps coming up. I get tingles when I know things are right—and I have that happening right now. It tells me I’m doing the right thing, helping the people who are looking for exactly what I have.” Jan went from “What’s the point?” to “I know exactly what I’m doing.” Ready to create a website that works for you the way Jan’s does for her? ? Book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call) [](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call)with me today and let's talk about what's possible when your website tells the right story. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-heidi ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Heidi ### Page ID: 8007631 ### Content: ## Have you ever felt like you’re churning in quicksand, working hard on your message but never quite breaking through? ## "My finances increased exponentially once I got my story right. ## You can’t afford not to do this. The clarity gave me confidence, saved me so much time, and brought me peace of mind knowing that my message is truly resonating with the right people." #### –Heidi Allsop, Coach **That’s exactly where Heidi was before we worked together.** She’s a parenting coach for moms raising teenage sons. Smart. Experienced. Passionate. But in her own words, she came across as *“the nice lady who helps moms raise boys.”* Nothing compelling. Nothing that made anyone stop and say, *“I need this.”* Then she implemented my **Signature Story-Selling System**, and everything started to shift. No more staring at a blank screen wondering what to say. Every post, email, and offer came straight from a clear message. She finally knew she was reaching the right people, and it showed. **“*You can churn for months trying to get out of quicksand, or you can make the investment in yourself and get clear. You can’t afford not to do this. Your mental space will increase. Your finances will increase. Everything increases exponentially when you get clear on your story.***” If you're ready to stop churning and finally get the clarity that transforms your business, book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call) [](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call)with me today/ *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/from-click-to-client-ep-48-website-formula-browsers-into-buyers ### Title: The Website Formula That Turns Browsers Into Buyers with Troy Trewin ### Page ID: 8074768 ### Content: The Website Formula That Turns Browsers Into Buyers with Troy Trewin What if the reason your website isn’t converting has nothing to do with your design or your offer, and everything to do with your story? This week on the **From Click to Client Podcast**, I’m sharing a conversation I had with **Troy Trewin** from the Grow a Small Business Podcast about the power of story-driven websites. We talked about how to stand out in a crowded market, what makes clients pre-sold before they even meet you, and why your website copy can’t sound like anyone else’s. For years, I built beautiful websites that weren’t producing consistent leads. It wasn’t until I learned how to weave story into the message that everything changed, not just for me, but for every client I’ve helped since. **Here’s a taste of what you’ll learn in this episode:** ✨ Why you can’t outsource your own voice and what happens when you try ✨ The single shift that took one client from scattered messaging to a 384% growth in revenue ✨ The $15 resource that will completely transform how you talk about your business If you’ve been wondering why your marketing feels like hard work, this episode will show you how to fix it simply by changing the story your website tells. The Website Formula That Turns Browsers Into Buyers with Troy Trewin CTC Ep. 48 | The Website Formula That Turns Browsers Into Buyers with Troy Trewin Kris: \[00:00:00\] I had such a fantastic conversation with Troy Truman on the Grow a Small Business Podcast, and what we talked about is really gonna help you discover how to use your unique story to stand out in a crowded market and attract more of your ideal clients. So I'm gonna share that conversation with you today. Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Troy Trewin: Welcome everyone. Today I'm interviewing Kris Jones from Red Door Designs based in beautiful Portland, Oregon in the United States. Thanks for your time today, Kris. Troy Trewin: Let's start with how we know each other. Leva from the podcast growth agency put us in touch and I read your background. Troy Trewin: Tell our audience a bit about your business, what it does and how it makes \[00:01:00\] money. Kris: Yeah. I have a company called Red Door Stories and I started the company 23 years ago. So I've been at it a long time and it started out really in storytelling through design. And that was really how I got involved in the industry. Um, I spent many years working for larger corporations like Nike and Adidas. I've had clients like Jeff Bezos, um, and over the years, I really I learned a lot working for those clients, but eventually it ended up starting my own business and naturally gravitated toward solopreneurs, small business owners, service providers, because that was really my journey as well. Like I've. I've navigated the journey of entrepreneurship and \[00:02:00\] found success over the years. And now I like to help my clients do the same thing. So started Red Door Designs 23 years ago and was Really focused on branding, visual storytelling, website design. And the way it worked was I'd have a client come to me, they would hire me to do their branding in a website, and I would say, okay, your website copy is due on April 1st, and then I will start the design portion of the project and, Cause I had a web design development company in Melbourne and it was the copy was the thing that always blew out the launch deadline or timeline. Is that what happened? Kris: Completely. Completely. Yeah. I think you're, you're psychic. Um, yeah. So this happened within a number of clients, which is why I really shifted gears. In my \[00:03:00\] business, but there was one client in particular named Elise and she had a background in publishing. So she felt very confident with words and with writing and she was really excited to write her own website copy. And I said, perfect, you copy, I'll do the design and we're off and running. So her project due date was April 1st and I got a call from her that day and she'd been up like nearly all night long. She was. Distraught, um, frustrated. And she was like, Kris, I don't know what is going on, but I cannot write my own copy. This is impossible. Like, I don't know why, because I know what I'm doing, but I can't write what I want to write. And no matter how hard I work, I'm unable to really break. Through what, what can I do to help? So I, we brainstormed, I gave her the name of a couple of copywriters. I gave her some templates to follow. I \[00:04:00\] recommended she talked to previous clients and she did all of those things. Hiring the copywriters in particular, which was. Additional money that she hadn't planned on spending. And ultimately none of those things worked because in hindsight, what I realized is you can't outsource your own voice when your business is your baby. When you are the face of your business and it's an extension of you, you can't outsource your voice. It's got to really be aligned with your voice. And so. Through That project thanks to elise and a handful of other clients that were really struggling in the same way I just And I should add to like the reality was my own website Wasn't bringing in the types of clients that and the consistent flow of clients \[00:05:00\] that That I really needed. I was relying solely on referrals, which as we know, referrals are great, but they're pretty inconsistent in that piece of my business was stressing me out. Basically. And so I made it my mission. I said, I'm never going to let another client struggle with copy again. I'm going to master the art of how to tell a compelling and powerful story, both online and in, and in person. And I flew across the country for workshops. I became one of the very first story brand guides. I just immersed myself in this work and kind of came out the other side of that and, um, began to apply story and story brand to Every project that I worked on and it was, it was really mind blowing because \[00:06:00\] not only did I apply it to my client's websites, but I applied it to my own website as well. And my clients were calling me, telling me things like I'm, you know, I'm now able to charge. Six times more from what I was charging before. I'm no longer burning out. We've tripled our revenue Like it was just I was getting these calls over and over again, and it felt like you know kind of a magic bullet, um, which I Which took me a while to really believe but you know eight years in um Into this really focus on story and my business and client temperature client, it works. And, and at the same time, it was working for me personally. Like I revamped the way that I talked about my business. I infused story into all my messaging and. People, I would get on the phone with them to talk about a project and they were pre sold. They were like, \[00:07:00\] yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when can we get started? So like the selling that I used to do was completely eliminated. Also, I was able to Charge more than I had ever charged because I was attracting a different caliber of client, and I was also able to promise much greater results. Um, and so that's kind of how the journey unfolded. Troy Trewin: Yeah, I've become a big fan of copy and copywriting in the last two or three years and absolutely loved Donald Miller's book, um, Building a Story Brand. Uh, I remember after listening to the book, I was running, I was in Brisbane at the time, running up and down the river and got back to the hotel room, opened up my website and made all the fucking mistakes. Like just talking about myself, not about the, you know, making me the hero, instead of, as you well know, making the prospect the hero and we're the guide. And that, that framework is, is really Powerful. So I encourage listeners to grab a copy of that book for sure. Kris: For sure. Yeah. It will change the way \[00:08:00\] you talk about your business and you'll never be able to kind of, it provides you with a lens for looking at your business in a way that you'll never remove that lens. Troy Trewin: And maybe tell the audience about your podcast and your book. Kris: Um, I have a podcast called From Click to Client, and I have a book that is also titled the same, same title, From Click to Client. It's a mouthful. And it's, um, meant for business owners. It's a simple guide to a story driven website that turns visitors into clients. Troy Trewin: Yep, great. Now your website looks terrific and obviously the copy is excellent. So, was it about 2014 you decided to ditch the web design and really hone in on, and niche down or niche down to helping people with their messaging and their copy? Kris: It was, I would, \[00:09:00\] I would look at it more as an expansion. So, the website design became more of phase two. Um, so it, it, It widened my scope. The foundational work was always, always began with the storytelling, getting clear on the story and the messaging. And then phase two was designing and building the website. And then phase three was building out the lead magnet Kris: the email nurture sequence. So I went from charging essentially five grand. For a website design to anywhere between 15 and 20 for the full funnel and the messaging. Troy Trewin: And how did you start out? Maybe go back to, you know, I know you mentioned you had, um, you know, corporate career. Well, maybe tell the audience, what was the catalyst for you to, to start your own business? Kris: Well, actually, \[00:10:00\] I graduated from college with a degree in teaching. I feel like I'm a teacher at heart and I teach my clients. I, I love that aspect of it. Cause I, I want to write your copy for you and write your story, but I also want to help you understand the why behind why it works. And when I graduated from college, I realized. That I did not want to be a teacher. Um, and so I took off like a lot of Australians do, I took off to Europe for like a year, year and a half. And while I was in Turkey, I met these two Australian women and they were both graphic designers. I'd never heard of the profession before. Like this is back in the day, like. Early, early website days, kind of back when all you needed was a beautiful website to be a legit business. Um, messaging wasn't really as necessary. \[00:11:00\] And, um, and so I met these two women and one of them came back to Portland with me and I showed her around my town and I took her to Powell's and she bought design books. And I just like through osmosis really decided to go back to school for design. And, um, once I did that, like everything really unfolded really quickly. It was like, I had got it quickly. I got an internship then quickly I got hired and then quickly I got promoted to art director. And then very quickly after that, I was working at Nike. And then after that Adidas wanted to work with me. And, and so it just, it was like. I finally stepped into the river of like what my purpose was and it just carried me down, downstream, um, to the opportunities and, and the alignment with really like my purpose. \[00:12:00\] Um, it was a beautiful. It was like in hindsight, it was really beautiful how it all kind of came together. Troy Trewin: And you started in 2001. How old, how old were you then when you decided to make the jump? Kris: 2001, I was 27, I think, 28. Um, yeah, I had been working for larger corporations. It's on contract and then just decided, um, to start my own thing. And it was beautiful cause I had, I had made these relationships inside of Nike and Adidas. And then as a freelancer, they would hire me. So it was a nice cushion, um, it was a soft way to kind of enter into things. And then I. Somebody called me from a, um, advertising agency and they needed an art director to come in one or two days a week. And so I started doing that and over the course of kind of 10 years, just had very consistent \[00:13:00\] work. So it was, it was certainly meant to be, and I never really had to go through that, um, Major struggle of like not having any clients thankfully. Troy Trewin: And what was it like working with Jeff Bezos? Kris: Oh my gosh. Um, he is meticulous, uh, certainly a perfectionist as you can imagine. Um, he thinks outside the box in a big way. Um, he has like layers of people, right. That like, it's. You work through these multiple layers and then ultimately it's like, okay, we're going to bring this concept into Jeff right now. Are you available for quick feedback and um It was it was wonderful. I mean Jeff Bezos gets a bad rap because I'm you \[00:14:00\] know Mixed people have mixed emotions around him like you love him or you hate him or you kind of a mixture of both but He, at the time that I worked with him, which was like three or four years ago, um, he was on a mission to create free Montessori child care for low income families. Across the nation and so it was a really beautiful project to work on and visually very compelling and messaging was really compelling and it was just like a feel good project so that I think that influenced my experience of working with him. Troy Trewin: Do you have some key numbers you can share to illustrate the growth of the business? Kris: Um, well there was one stat that my bookkeeper shared with me yesterday. Okay. \[00:15:00\] Which was I have it right here in front of me. Actually, she said your increase Net income from this year versus last year is 384 percent growth. I mean, that's the power of story. I tell you, I tell you like it, it really works. Um, in this day and age. Everybody is inundated with information, they're bombarded, they're overwhelmed, and story has this beautiful, um, flow to it that helps, like, helps us engage fully and feel connected in the story and kind of filter out the noise of the world, so, um, yeah, it has been, since I started integrating this work into my \[00:16:00\] own business. Troy Trewin: And you obviously started on your own. How many full time equivalent team members are you up to now? Kris: I have a full time VA. I have a part time, um, bookkeeper. Accountant. I have a part time developer, website developer, and then I have two part time, uh, podcast scouts. Kris: Yeah, including me. Or not including me. Yeah. Troy Trewin: Okay. Yeah, great. Yeah. When was the moment you felt like you had succeeded? Kris: Mmm. Gosh, that's a good question. You know, I think what, when it really hit me was when I When I came through that, that, that intense phase of really immersing myself \[00:17:00\] and in story and applying it to my own business and really watching firsthand the results of that, um, there were a couple moments that, that I can. Reflect on one of them was within a month. I had two people, one person took the train, bought a train ticket to Portland. She wanted to meet me. She was a dentist. She wanted to meet with me and work with me and have me do her website. So that's a lot of effort, you know, to like, want to work with somebody. But that was the power of my website was getting people excited about working with me. And so she Took the train here. And then another, um, business, it was a partnership. They both road tripped to Portland from Seattle to meet with me and talk about doing their website. And so I, I just, it started to hit me like, wow, people are really \[00:18:00\] pre sold and they're just. Not only sold, but they're really excited and eager to work together and that felt really good. And then When I was pregnant with my son, who's now seven You know it a couple things happened. I Started expanding the scope of work that I was providing for my clients So it became like I said more of a 15 to 20 thousand dollar engagement. So my annual revenue Like multiplied and multiplied that year and then. Beautifully, I had my son and I didn't have the capacity to do all the work. And so I started getting help and that was kind of building another muscle of learning for me, how to hand things off and how to delegate and that year I made more than I'd ever made in my, the \[00:19:00\] history of my business. So it was a lot of learnings and a lot of. Like delightful lessons that came out of that Troy Trewin: amazing. What you can do when you learn to let go and delegate, isn't it? Kris: It's incredible. It's really, it's like, it's such a double whammy because like we resist it for a long time. And there's this belief that, Oh, I'll just do, I can just do it quicker. I can do it better. But, um, as a business owner to be able to let go, and I don't know about you, but. For myself, I got into this work because of the freedom that it promised, or that it could provide, and often that's not what it feels like when we get into this, like we're wearing so many hats, our plates are so full, um, it doesn't feel as free as we imagined it to be, and so when you begin to delegate, that's when that freedom, I think, begins to truly kick in. Troy Trewin: \[00:20:00\] What does success look like to you Kris: being able to pick up my kid from school, um, being able to be in control of my schedule if he is sick, which I know you can relate to Troy with your daughter and, um, just being in charge of my own schedule. It's really, really, um, even if I'm, even if I decide to work a lot, I know I have the option to press pause. One of the things that I've done in the last. Many, many years is take an entire month off and go to another country. I could never do that if I were an employee. And so things like that, being able to exit my life, press pause on the business, and then come reenter my life with fresh eyes and fresh. Inspiration and perspective, um, has been \[00:21:00\] one of the best parts of being self employed. Troy Trewin: Great question for you. Number one thing you'd recommend to marketing a fast growing business? Kris: A hundred percent. It would be use story in your business and the DIY freeway or 15 way to do that is just to go buy the book, building a story brand by Donald Miller. Um, it, it truly will change your business. And, and then buy my book after that. From click, click to client. , I'm Troy Trewin: gonna, yeah, I'm gonna grab a a, a copy and have a listen. Definitely. Awesome. Um, I've been right into a lot of marketing books the last couple of years. Have you read either of April Mumford's books, obviously. Awesome. Which is on positioning and the book sales pitch. Troy Trewin: I'll send them to you. They're awesome. Um, okay. Uh, I think it compliments StoryBrand well, because her first book, obviously Awesome, um, is all about \[00:22:00\] getting your positioning right. And then the sales pitch, she couldn't believe no one, you know, had the title of that book sales pitch, but she's got it. And that is also excellent. So you do the positioning first with obviously Awesome, um, work on your sales pitch and then the messaging with StoryBrand. Two. Yeah, two. Troy Trewin: And, uh, comes with a, um, canvas, like a PDF you use for both books to get your positioning and your, and your sales pitch nailed. Kris: How did I fund it? Oh, well, I didn't, I, I am a big fan. I mean, the work I do is very much less is more keep it simple, you know, how to kind of. Use the power of one, whether it's one story, one offer, you know, just keep it simple. And so \[00:23:00\] when I started my business, I really just, I didn't have a lot of overhead. Um, I rented an office, but I shared that office with another company. Um, I had monthly rent, I had saved up to buy a computer, um, so I didn't have to go get funding for my business, thankfully. And I kept it simple for a very long time. Troy Trewin: If you were to start up today with plenty of funding, would you go into your industry? Kris: 100%. Yes, I would. Yeah, I really truly feel like I'm doing the work in the world that I was meant to do. Troy Trewin: Can you outline the most stressful point in your small business growth journey so audience can learn from it? Yes. Um, I would say like, as my business evolved, there \[00:24:00\] was a, there was a phase early in my business where I would, I was driven by fear and I would say yes to projects that maybe I wasn't the best fit for. And I said yes to a project. It was actually like a video editing project, which was out of my wheelhouse and the client deliverables like they had to get me a bunch of files in order for me to edit and those didn't come through till like 10 p. m. at night, and it was due the next morning, and so I edited my little heart out all night long, and I actually was, I wasn't even in my own office. I was in like This editing suite, downtown Portland all night long. And I remember rating the, um, I \[00:25:00\] rated the lost and found closet because the, the air, the heat was off. And so it was really, really, really cold. And I did my best. I got through the night, but the. Project was total mess. And so I had to like, then after an all nighter going to work that day, um, to that company and just say, this is sub par. And, and, and I remember like, I remember pulling over in my car and just crying after that 'cause I was so tired and I was also like, so defeated, So I think the, the lesson is really like stay in your own lane. Don't take projects that feel like really the things that, that don't involve, like you feeling really lit up about them and that them being in, in your zone of \[00:26:00\] genius, just say no to those jobs. Other jobs will come. Troy Trewin: What area in business do you feel you've had to work on the most to add the greatest value? Kris: Mmm. Well, the storytelling piece for sure. I think that's like, that's a no brainer. But I think the other piece is, has been, like getting help. I think that was, that was Um, something that I resisted for many, many, many years and finally, you know, thanks to my son and thanks to the growth of my business, I had to get help. And now like it's one of my favorite parts of my business, like having, knowing someone's working on my business when I'm not, it's a really, really good feeling. And then I've chosen people to work with that are really. aligned with me. And so it feels more like friendship than it does like a professional \[00:27:00\] relationship. It's just, it's, it's such a delight to have people on my team that are really invested in my business and, and our growth. Troy Trewin: What have you enjoyed the least about managing fast growth? Um, Kris: I think that, you know, navigating the roadmap, you know, there is like charting, charting the path. Um, there is no, um, formula for it, um, because everyone's different and your business is different and the way you want to grow is different. Like it's, it's such a unique journey that, um, charting that path has been. challenging, but it really is like you just put one foot in front of the other and things open up. Um, I think the other thing that came to mind when you asked that \[00:28:00\] question was just like having to sift through people that weren't a good fit for me and my team that weren't a good fit for my team in order to find the right fit people for my team. I think that's been, um, a journey. Certainly. What Troy Trewin: do you love most about growing a small business? Kris: Oh, it's exhilarating. I mean, when it's when you find tools that really work and that you watch the immediate results of the work that you're doing, or the strategies that you're implementing, and that very quickly equates to more revenue or whatever goal you're going for, um, that's really, that's really exhilarating for me. Troy Trewin: Yeah, sure. What do you love most about growing a small business? \[00:29:00\] Kris: The other thing I love most about growing a small business is the clients that I get to work with, like they're, they're extraordinary people. And as I mentioned, I feel like I'm doing the work here that I'm meant to do, but I'm working with clients who are extraordinary people. Living their purpose too. And they're just so passionate about what they're doing and they just want to focus on the work and the fact that I can come in and help them do more of the work that they love and less of the marketing wearing less of the marketing hat that they, they don't really want to be wearing. Anyway, um, but, but the quality of people that I get to work with and then getting their feedback around how things are working for them or how easily they're able to grow their business because of the work that we, we do that, like that just really lights me up. Troy Trewin: What has been the \[00:30:00\] biggest mindset shift for you in your small business growth journey? Kris: My biggest mindset shift, um, that even if, this kind of goes back to getting help, um, allowing people to help me grow, even if I can do it faster and better, that, that doesn't mean that I should do it, you know, like, it's like, you got to overcome those, those beliefs kind of keep you stuck. And, um, There's value in just like acknowledging like, okay, yeah, maybe I could do it faster. Maybe I could do it better. But I certainly, if I don't give this person on my team an opportunity to do it on their own over and over and over again, it's, I'm never going to get the help that I need. Troy Trewin: Number one habit you think a small business owner needs to develop and maintain. Kris: Wow. Um, \[00:31:00\] I think, I mean, one of the habits that I guess you could call it a habit. One of the habits that I've adopted is to always ask my clients for feedback. And it's been really great because I hear, you know, Number one, like it's great to get a pat on the back. Oh, you helped me do this. And that feels good. Of course that feels good. But I think it really does keep me in touch with my clients, what they need and, um, what their experience was, if they needed additional help in a different area, like, I just think the habit of like really keeping that conversation open. has been really helpful for me. Um, it's also allowed me to like, get a fair amount of Google reviews as well. So like that, \[00:32:00\] those are kind of like the little seeds that you put in the garden that you forget about, but they really do support the growth long term and people do look at Google reviews. Um, and so it's important to like, little by little just invest in those. Little things that aren't like bright and shiny in the moment. Troy Trewin: Can you talk to how you've added people to the team? Some wins, mistakes, and advice for those listening? Troy Trewin: Yeah, sure. Can you talk to how you've added people to the team? Some wins, mistakes, and advice for those listening? Kris: Yes. Um, I added somebody to my team. Gosh, I added, so what I really wanted On my team was the VA, um, who could rally behind me and support me in the day to day. \[00:33:00\] Um, and that's what I, what I wanted. And what I ended up doing was hiring an OBM who was more high level, Kris: online business manager. She was more high level. And I found there was just this like ongoing frustration that I was feeling because I was wanting her to be in a different role than I had hired her to be in. And that is not on her. That is on me. And eventually, you know, it was still a positive relationship, but it was always a source of like frustration. Eventually I found my VA. And, um, I could tell like from the first time I talked with her that she was eager to please, um, enthusiastic, um, super \[00:34:00\] smart, and willing to learn, and those four qualities really helped me, like, feel confident, like, oh, this is, she, she has the potential to be a really good fit. And so, um, that's been probably the most exciting hire that I've had is just finding her because she's like my right hand woman she's on, you know, when I'm doing trainings, she's on those calls, managing the chats and, um, she's just. A bundle of positive energy. And I think it's been really fun as, as someone who's grown a business over many, many years, mostly on my own. It's been really a breath of fresh air to, to have a team and to feel supported in that way, but also just to kind of have fun banter day to day, back and forth. \[00:35:00\] Troy Trewin: What are some things you recommend to building a sustainable and kick ass culture to help with the growth? Kris: I think that, like, I'm going to bring this back to story yet again. I think the power of story is really getting clear on the problem that you solve, who you help and the success that you deliver, um, or that you guide those customers or clients, um, to achieve. And I think when you are on a team. Or you're developing a culture when, when everyone's really aligned on the core message, the core audience, the core, ultimately, what are we really providing? What problem are we solving and what success are we allowing people to experience? Like it just. It feels good. \[00:36:00\] It's not just about this job. It's about this bigger story and this bigger, um, needle that we're moving for customers or clients. Troy Trewin: Hello, audience. How you've handled balance? Troy Trewin: Yeah. It sounds like you've got it nailed now. If you're taking a month off and, you know, heading to new places. Kris: Yeah, um, I have a lake house that is about an hour from Portland, Oregon. And I go out there like a couple times a month. Um, I think with, I have a seven year old child. And so since I had him balance has looked very, very different than it did prior to that. Um, so. I feel like, you know, I don't, I wouldn't say I get the rest that I, that sometimes I crave, like on the weekends. Sometimes I feel like my \[00:37:00\] job is like just the joyful, easy. Part of my life and the weekends kind of running around and entertaining a seven year old can feel harder honestly, but the way I Keep balance is I block off like every Wednesday. I block off just like it's busy nobody can book anything and like having those Days baked in really helped me feel more spacious and not like I'm going from call to call to call. Um, it's been a really nice way to break up the week. Um, getting out of town has always been helpful. And then I am, I am like a ninja. When it comes to sleep, I, my kid goes to bed at 830 on the dot and I'm pretty much asleep between nine and nine thirty every night. And when you get good \[00:38:00\] sleep, you can literally do anything in the whole wide world. Totally agree. Troy Trewin: You don't want to see me in the morning when I've had only four hours sleep, that's for sure. And how much professional development have you invested in yourself? Kris: So much. So much. Yeah. And in 2017, um, I became a story brand guide. That was like the biggest amount I'd ever invested in myself. And that was a 10, 000 investment. And it's been a 5, 000 investment every year after that. And then I would say my other biggest investment was with a company called Peaceful Profits, and it's. It's been, I invested with them 75, 000 and it was the best money I've ever spent. It was really great. Um, you know, \[00:39:00\] as business owners, we really are inside that bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside and no one's immune to it. Even me, you know, and this is the work that I do. And so they have been a wonderful, um, perspective point. To look at my business and, and really see the greatest version of myself. And I've, I've stepped into, to that, um, with their guidance and help and encouragement. Troy Trewin: So for that 75 grand, like, was that for one year and was it like coaching or any specific part of the business? Kris: Yeah. Um, coaching is part, definitely part of the deliverable. It's for a year. Um, part of the deliverable is they build, um, they build a funnel. For you and so they build that funnel and they manage your ads in addition to that It's like a really robust \[00:40:00\] deliverable, but i've more than made up for it just by the coaching that they've provided for me We haven't even started the funnel yet because There are a lot of different components, the book being one of them, but the book is also part of that funnel. Um, so, it's been a year of really generating a lot of trainings, and Deliverables, um, and stepping into like a, a greater version of myself. Um, so all that to say, I've more than recouped my investment and we haven't even started the funnel yet. Troy Trewin: That's great. So you've had coaches, have you had mentors along the way? Kris: I mean, I would consider my coach at Peaceful, Peaceful Profits, a mentor for sure. Um, I had an incredible mentor. When I just started out in my career, when I had an \[00:41:00\] internship, um, his name is Keith Buckley, he took the time to just teach me like it real on real world projects and, um, that mentorship was. Really extraordinary. I consider Donald Miller to be a really important mentor to me in my life. Um, and he's just a steady source of like the touchstone, what's important, what matters. Um, so I've been really fortunate in that way. Troy Trewin: Do you have a board of directors or advisors? All right, Kris, one of our final five questions. What do you think's the hardest thing in growing a small business? Kris: The hardest thing in growing a small business is figuring out how to talk about your business. Like it's really \[00:42:00\] hard to talk about your own business clearly because of that bottle effect. You're inside the bottle. You can only read the, you can't read the label from inside the bottle, but also the curse of knowledge, which is really just, you've been in your industry long enough. That you've forgotten what it's like to not know what you know. And so we tend to talk over people or use industry lingo and we lose an opportunity for connection. Um, and so those two things are going on all the time for every business owner. And they're really hard to overcome if you're trying to figure it out yourself. And. I have yet to meet a business owner who isn't struggling with this, and what's confusing about it is that people think if I just keep working at it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna solve this problem, I'm gonna be able to figure this out. And because it's not a writing problem, it's a perspective problem. Um. \[00:43:00\] I love to let my clients off the hook and say, this is nothing to do with writing. This is about perspective and you could work on this another three years, but. You know, you're, you're, it's, you're not going to make the progress because you're not able to come at your business with fresh eyes and, um, and an expertise in story to really, to really piece together what is the magic and the golden thread in your story that's going to truly attract those ideal clients. Troy Trewin: Favourite business book, which has helped you the most Kris: building a story brand. Yeah. I knew you were going to say that. Yep. Yep. Shocker. Troy Trewin: Any great podcasts, online learning tools you use for your own professional development. Um, Kris: I mean, I, I am a big fan of like marketing made simple podcast. Um, I'm a, I'm listening to podcasts all the time. \[00:44:00\] Um, but I'm often listening to like more story driven podcasts. Like I love ghost stories. I love like, you know, haunted stories, stuff like that. So I'm, I'm big into, um. Um, storytelling, but the business, the business podcasts I listen to are mostly marketing made simple. Troy Trewin: I'm just, sorry, just pause for a second. I'm just looking up a book. Here we go. Have you read Matthew Dick's book story, story, sell story worth to grow your business? Troy Trewin: It's a great book. I'm about halfway through it now. I'll send that to you. I'm Troy Trewin: one tool You'd recommend to help grow a small business \[00:45:00\] Kris: Mmm a tool I'd recommend to grow a small business Um, I think the most powerful tool that you can create for your business is your website And you don't need anything fancy. I'm a big fan of like cloud builder websites. So just get on Wix or Squarespace or Kajabi and keep it simple, but you've got to get something online and I believe the. Really your website is the center of your marketing universe. So when you, you know, when you are marketing point, everybody and everything to the website, knowing that that website is set up to sell and really convert new clients. Um, so. I think it's twofold. Number one, I guess the tool would be like a Wix or Weebly or Squarespace. Troy Trewin: \[00:46:00\] Finally, my favorite question. What would you tell yourself on day one of starting out 23 years ago? Kris: Focus on the things that you really enjoy doing and pay attention to the clients that You really enjoy working with and just say no to all the rest. Um, that would have saved me a lot of, you know, frustration, I guess, and, uh, a lot of time. Troy Trewin: Right. Thanks so much for your time today, Kris. Really enjoyed our chat. Congratulations on the growth, particularly over the last 12 months, 384 percent growth starting out on your own, our team of five helping, um, solo and small business owners get their messaging right. Mainly through stories and terrific work. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking \[00:47:00\] messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/5-step-system-organize-business-reclaim-time-tracy-hoth ### Title: The 5-Step System to Organize Your Business & Reclaim Your Time with Tracy Hoth ### Page ID: 8111830 ### Content: The 5-Step System to Organize Your Business & Reclaim Your Time with Tracy Hoth Picture this: You block off time to work on an important project. You sit down, full of energy and ready to go. Then you spend the next 30 minutes hunting for that one file you need. By the time you find it? Your energy is gone. Your focus is shot. And you're questioning why you can't seem to get your business organized. **Here's the truth: You're not bad at organization. You just need the right system.** That's why I brought professional organizer and coach Tracy Hoth onto the podcast this week. Tracy has been helping business owners get organized since 2008, and she's developed a brilliantly simple method that works for everything. ✅ The SPACE method (5 steps that organize anything in your business) ✅ Why most people start organizing in the wrong place (and what to do instead) ✅ The 5 essential file folders that make finding anything effortless My favorite part? Tracy shows you how to tackle business organization as a quarterly project instead of trying to do everything at once. One of her clients used this system to write a book AND create a new program because she finally had the mental space and creative energy to do it. The 5-Step System to Organize Your Business & Reclaim Your Time with Tracy Hoth CTC Ep. 49 | The 5-Step System to Organize Your Business & Reclaim Your Time with Tracy Hoth Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Kris: It is my joy today to introduce you to Tracy Ho. She is a coach and a professional organizer who helps life coaches organize their business so they can make more money while actually working less. Tracy welcome. Tracy: Ooh. Thanks Kris. I love being here. I'm so excited to talk to you about getting organized. Kris: I know, and we were just talking before we hit record about how when you're a business owner, if your business is organized, great, but if your personal life is organized, that also benefits the business, right? Because you can't. Divide the buckets of your life in that way, especially when you are the business. Right. So, um, so true. So true. It really, yeah. It makes such a \[00:01:00\] difference. I, I am, um, a fanatic, I wouldn't say fanatic. I am diligent about clearing away clutter and donating stuff, and I'm always amazed by. That it's never done. Like how do I keep collecting all this stuff? And, and I just finally accepted like, oh, this is just more of a practice. It's an ongoing practice, just like meditation would be. Tracy: Totally. It is a practice. Mm-hmm. And there is the project side of it where you're really focused on. The project of a certain space or a certain part of your business or whatever. But then after that, you really do have to have a habit or a practice of maintaining that space. Kris: So let's dive into you. Tell us a little bit about you and how did you get into this work in particular? Tracy: Well, I've been an organizer professionally going into people's homes and offices since 2008, and then I started speaking on the topic and then I was growing my email list early \[00:02:00\] on, and I knew I didn't always wanna be doing that. It was a physical job. Usually if people were hiring me, they thought I should do all the physical part of it. It gets tough and you're driving to people's homes. So I knew I wanted to transition. I came across life coaching in 2017 and absolutely loved it and could see that that's the addition, that how I helped people really needed because they needed their identity to. Shift into a person, business owner who is organized, not just that their business reflects it, but that they feel that inside and believe it about themselves. So I got Life coach certified, and then I moved my business pretty much online and realized, whoa, I need to organize all my online things because very quickly they get messy and you have so much stuff, and if you don't have structure for that. Oh my. It gets outta control and you're wasting a lot of time. So I noticed that about myself. I put my own practices into play and just created super simple structures that I could help people with, \[00:03:00\] and then started helping business owners and coaches on, um. Organize their businesses. So it's been this just long journey of using all the things I learned along the way and putting it into practice. So now I do both. I help homeowners still not in person, but in my online program. And then I also help business owners get organized. Kris: How do you go about getting things organized or helping your clients get, get organized? On their computers. Tracy: Yes. Well, the thing, and I was gonna say this earlier, the thing that I love about my five steps to get organized is that they work for every single thing. So they work for your computer, they work for your mind. When you're overwhelmed, they work for a project, you're planning your calendar and to-do list. Listing and your physical space. So these five steps are all you need to know to organize any single thing. And they work on your computer too. So the, the acronym is space because you're creating space and. S is for sort. The \[00:04:00\] first thing you always do is to sort, and that's what we do with your digital files on your computer. When we're starting, we're sorting them. And the reason this is so important is have you ever walked into your closet and just thought, okay, I'm gonna get rid of some stuff. This is what I do. I stand there and I look at one thing and I'm like, wow, I don't know, maybe I think I might wanna keep that. And then I'm just like, this is dumb and I leave. Tracy: haven't sorted first. And so we always sort first, then we go to the purge P for purge. Wait, Kris: which, what question do you ask yourself in the sorting phase? Like, no. Good. Good. Yeah. I say, what is this? Whether, whether it's your closet or your computer, right. Let's go back to the closet story. Tracy: Yes. So I just say, what category is this? You don't have to start with categories ahead of time. You just say, what is this? It's a long sleeve shirt. Put it in a shirt pile, a long sleeve shirt, pile, whatever you want. What is this pants? Put it in a pants pile. I even say like in your closet. Just take out all your tank tops. Go through the steps \[00:05:00\] with just your tank tops, then take out all your jeans and pants and go through the steps with your pants because then you're not like left at night with a giant pile of clothes on your bed. You actually have part. Category at a time, but you pull from everywhere in your house, every tank top is gonna be on your bed that you're gonna look at. Right. And same with your digital files. Now the way I teach it is I give you five categories to start with, to sort into, but then you are gonna go and sort all your files into those categories, which we can talk about that in a minute, what those five are. But that's what you sort just what is this put like with like Okay, got it. Okay. No, so then, then the P is purge and you are gonna go through purging and letting go of things. Now this is where it's challenging to. A, a bigger majority of people, but I like to choose your favorites first. What do you absolutely love? What are you using? What fits with the purpose of you going forward? So that's a big one. In the future, five \[00:06:00\] years, three years, 10 years, what do you see yourself doing and using and in your business too, like, what will I be doing? Does this fit with that? Kris: And you mentioned the purpose of you moving forward. Is that part of the life coaching work that you do with people to kind of identify who is it that you're wanting to become? Tracy: Yes, because what happens is we used to be this person. We used to like an example with clothing, since we're on that example, is I used to be someone who went into the office. This was one of my clients. And has a whole wardrobe of, of things she used to be, but when she looks forward, she's never going back to that. She's not gonna go back to the office, she's not gonna work. So now going forward. She doesn't need those things. And once she realized her identity and she could let go of that identity of the old her and go to the future, her, she was able to let go of all of those things. Kris: Hmm. That, that's really powerful. I, I am thinking about, and uh, and another example, my \[00:07:00\] partner. Used to bite his nails. I did not know him during this time, but he used to really struggle with it and he decided he didn't have a coach or anything, so I don't know how this came about for him, but he decided I am someone who does not bite their nails. That is who I am. I am this, and. After like a lifetime of biting his nails. He hasn't bit them since. Isn't that amazing? There's, there's really power, a lot of power in that, what I call in storytelling, that aspirational identity. Who do you want to become, and then how can you step into that a little bit early, you know? Tracy: Yes. And there was a, I had my sister actually on my podcast and we were talking about her bedroom and how she was a piler, like she had piles around her bedroom. So she was using my 15 minute declutter challenge to declutter these piles. And one interesting thing we discovered in that talk was when her and her husband \[00:08:00\] got married like 25 years ago, they decided they were gonna be people who made their bed. Exact example. Like she decided, they decided and they always make their bed. And we played with the fact that she could decide right there on the interview that she was not someone who had piles in her room. From that point on, she could be someone who walked into a room and never had piles. Wow. Like that's all it is, is deciding that you are that person. Right. And pulling from the past or a different aspect of your life where you did that and you were successful at doing it. Right. It's so fun. Kris: It's not. As complicated as we think it's gonna be. We fight ourselves in these things. And really, that's the beauty of coaching, right? Mm-hmm. With therapy, which I'm a big believer of therapy, but like you kind of delve into the past and you analyze it and kind of marinate in it. With coaching, you're like, okay, let's, who are we? Who are we wanting to become moving forward and let's make that happen. Kris: Yeah. So good. \[00:09:00\] Okay, so, okay, so let's get back into your process. Tracy: Okay. So sort and then you're purging. And purging has a few things. Like if you're, you're, um, organizing your to-do list or your calendar purging is delaying, delegating, doing. Deleting tasks. So there's different aspects of purging, asking those questions, looking to your future, and then if it's a time or a task thing using the four Ds, then once we know what we're gonna keep. We need to assign homes. So the A is assign homes to things and the, the whole, we didn't even start with this. Organizing is knowing what you have and being able to find it when you need it. So you are assigning homes now that you know what you have so that you can find it when you need it. So everything needs a home. Then the C is to contain. So this is the part where most people start. They go to Target and they get these cute containers, or they buy a new planner, or they have a new like temptation of some cool organizing software on their computer that they're gonna get. No, we don't do any of that until we get to \[00:10:00\] the fourth step to contain things. And you can use, like I said, planners software program might help. Um, baskets, drawer dividers, shelf dividers, all those kinds of things. And that's to keep things in order. And then also it's your trigger when it gets to that point that you need to go back through the steps. Kris: Right. Right. So it, and then it could, it could be a drawer or it could be a folder on, on your computer. Tracy: Yes. And an appointment on your calendar. Mm-hmm. Is one where you have an appointment, it, there's a start and an end time. That's the container. Tracy: Sort, purge, assign homes contain, and the last step is energized. So when you have decluttered and organized, you now have energy to spend in other areas. You wanna maintain that energy mm-hmm. To do the things that you wanna do. By keeping the order. So this is the habit step where you put something in place so that you maintain that energy. And I, the secret to maintaining is to tie things to something you already do. So think about what you do. Easy example, I go to the grocery store. When I come \[00:11:00\] home from the grocery store, I wipe out my refrigerator, clean anything out of it, tidy up the pantry, and then I put the groceries away. Or I do taxes every year. So I go through my paper. When I do taxes and get rid of that. So you're maintaining your organization. Kris: Right. And it doesn't have to be every week or every month. Right. You would, you do that tax prep once a year, but it's part of, you have a routine around it. Tracy: Yeah. Or seasonal with the weather changes in your clothing, that kind of thing. Yes. Kris: Yeah. Oh, I love it. So tell, tell us a story about a client that. Got to experience like really wonderful results after working with you. Tracy: Yes, so the one that comes to mind, I have organized Coach Academy, and that's where business owners, small business owners, entrepreneurs online. Coaches, they come in and they go through six modules where we start with the mind and then we do the computer. We find, we set up a business dashboard so they can find all their business assets really quickly, and so she. \[00:12:00\] Is one that does what she signs up for. So she literally went through, organized her files, created her business dashboard, and she just emailed me, I don't know, a week ago, two weeks ago, and she was like, Tracy, I'll come on anytime and talk about how this has helped me, because she feels like. She has so much more freedom and can use her creativity. So she's written a book since then. She's created a new program since then. And the cool thing is both of those things are very organized now, and she can find everything that she needs when she needs them. And so what I hear a lot is people just saying either they didn't. Know how to create those structures ahead of time on their own. They felt like they had an organization gap, maybe because they have a DHD or executive functioning gaps. But once they have it and understand it, it's so much, um, relief or frees up so much of their brain space that now they can use that. Energy, uh, and that time and space to focus on their clients and focus \[00:13:00\] on marketing activity so that they're creating results in their business versus all that time wasted looking for things and feeling disorganized. Kris: Yeah, it, it's, it's really two twofold because it takes up space in your brain to try and remember where things are and identify like what you're looking for and where it might be, but it's also a. Doubled because of the frustration that comes with that. Like we all, you know, time feels, um, often scarce, right? And we're all like, we wanna make the most of our time. And I'm, I just wasted 15 minutes digging around. Now I'm frustrated. Now I'm not in a very good mental state to be hopping onto a podcast or doing a marketing activity. Tracy: Yes, and when you just said that you set an appointment on your calendar to work on a project, and then you get to that appointment, you're trying to be good at time management, you get to that appointment and you can't find what you need to do the project. So you were looking for that for 30 minutes. Then all of a sudden piled on top \[00:14:00\] of all that frustration is the proof that you're bad at managing your time. When really it was just because you weren't organized, you couldn't find what you needed. Kris: Right, right, right. Okay. So you mentioned five folders. Um, can you delve into that? Is that related to space as well, or is that, what are the five folders that we all need? Tracy: Yeah, that's separate, but Okay. One of the biggest areas return on investment of investing your time organizing I've found for your business is to have digital files in an organized manner. So I've set up five folders that are, that work with everyone I've worked with. I mean, maybe someone has to change the name of one or add one more, but pretty much works with everything. So the first one is operations, and that's anything behind the scenes in your business. Marketing is the second one, and that's outward facing anything your clients are seeing or people. The third one is my content, anything you create. And the fourth one is education. That's everything that everyone \[00:15:00\] else creates. All the free downloads, the freebies and the courses and the certifications. And then the last one is clients. So anything related to clients, oh my gosh, Kris: how simple. So, yeah. Simple. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I, I have to confess, I am somebody, okay, now I'm like aware of my language around this. I am somebody who will fill up my desktop with like. Recent files and folders and activity, and then it will start to overflow. So they'll start to double up on each other. And then I create a folder that says November, 2024, and then I select all and I put them into that folder. And I have been doing that for years. So what do you do if you've got like years under your belt of this kind of behavior? Tracy: Well, Kris, you're not alone. I've seen that a lot. Or the title might be stuff to deal with or, you know. Totally, yeah. All of those, yeah. Uh, \[00:16:00\] first of all, set the structure up. Then you can sort into like, deal with, uh, sort later where you could put all those files into the sort later so you have that sitting there. You know, if you need something from the past, you can go in there and look for it or search, but set the structure up first. Sort all your current places. So I teach people sort your desktop first because it's what's visible. Put it into the structure, then open your documents, sort everything in there into the structure, which is just like on your desktop. Make those five files. Uh, and then go to your downloads. Go to your Dropbox, go OneDrive, like wherever all the places are, sort into those five categories. Got it. Merge 'em all together in your one hub. So you always decide like, what is the one place, the hub of my business gonna be? And how and where is that gonna be? And merge everything into that place. And then the sortings done. So then you go to the next step Kris: when you talk about the hub of your business. So \[00:17:00\] that is usually either Dropbox or Google Drive. Is that right? Tracy: Or if nobody needs to get to your stuff, you could do it on your computer. Right. Right. So either of those, or some people have MyDrive or OneDrive, sorry. Right, so that is, it just depends what, but one of those four places typically is where it is. Okay. Kris: Because I've like, I've got half my stuff in Dropbox and half my stuff in Google Drive, and I'm always hunting around. Yes. To what I need. Yeah. Hunting Tracy: around. So I just worked with a, uh, one of my clients and she, we took all her stuff in Dropbox, moved it into Google Drive. And so now she no longer, she's like, yes, and I'm paying for that. She went and stopped her subscription to it because she decided her one place was gonna be her Google Drive. She's saving money now. She's never having to go try to find where, in which spot of those four or you know where it is. And so, such a relief on your mind and your time. Kris: And your money and Yeah. Yeah. And your energy. Just like I, this is kind of \[00:18:00\] back to the clothing piece, but it's true in business or in personal life. The physical lift that I feel when my closet has been cleared out and. Only the things that are, there are things that I love. The physical boost that I get is, is so incredibly tangible, and I'm always, I'm struck by it again and again. And I always say, God, it's like stronger than any antidepressant. Just clear out my closet. I know like there's a, there's a place for antidepressants of course, but like, I don't think we realize. How affected we are by our space. I, I am aware of that. I'm very influenced by my space and I know that about me, but I think all humans really are, whether it's your closet or your kitchen or your living room and what a tangible effect that can have on our mood and our general sense of wellbeing, and then our ability to show up more free and more energized in our business.\[00:19:00\] Tracy: Yes. And there's such, in what you were saying, there's such a feeling of shame in a lot of it that people think it's not even possible for them 'cause they're just messy and as you were saying it, like they don't even know first that it's possible for them, but also that, that it will have that effect and the confidence that comes from that and their ability to. To be who they're meant to be and reach and make the impact that they're meant to make because they feel so much different and have such a different structure and background in their business. Mm-hmm. Kris: Well, what, what would you, what would be your best advice for a business owner who's overwhelmed, feeling buried, whether it be with their calendar or their files, or their schedule? Tracy: Well, I, I would say to think of it like a project, I think that's the most helpful. So in Q4, I am going to organize my computer or. \[00:20:00\] In the beginning of the year, that is gonna be my first priority in Q1. So now they have a plan. And then of course, whenever you're learning a new skill or you have a new goal, get support. So whatever that looks like, if you need someone to walk with you one-on-one, if you're good at. You know, following videos to do it. Whatever it is. If you need an accountability buddy, like whatever it is that you need to develop that skill and accomplish that goal, then get it and know that it's completely possible. Kris: I love that you attached a Q1, right? It's not like it has to happen on a Wednesday, but like this is like my vision for this quarter and it's gonna happen, and I'm gonna focus on that one big thing. Tracy: And imagine at the end of that quarter. Yeah. Tracy: gonna look back and go, I accomplished something. Kris: Yeah. Yeah. And you have four of those a year. That's four big, big things that you can accomplish that are, aren't gonna be overwhelming. 'cause you're gonna get support and you're gonna, \[00:21:00\] you're gonna build momentum Right. To do it again. Right. Once you get one thing done and then you're excited about the next, Tracy: and you have that skill with you for the rest of your life. Tracy: So it's a complete investment in yourself. In whatever, wherever you start, if it's with your home or if it's with your business, it doesn't matter. You're investing in your brain in that way, in your identity and it's gonna overflow for sure. Kris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so a lot has happened, like you and I worked together. You were a client of mine, which was so fun. Um, but that was kind of pre ai. I feel like it so much has happened with AI in the last couple of years. Um. Are there any tools related to AI or even non-AI tools that you find really helpful for for any entrepreneur? Tracy: Well, this is fun that you asked that, 'cause I hadn't even thought about that. But in my Organized Coach Academy in every single module, I have an AI assistant that helps you. So the mindset assistant helps in the mindset, the digital files. It knows my \[00:22:00\] mind and system and practices, so it helps with that. The systems when we're developing and documenting our processes, it has you tell it what it is, what you're documenting, and it shoots it out so that it's exactly the layout that I would recommend, and you paste it into your Google Doc, you know exactly where to put it, you know where to link it on your business dashboard. So it's all. You know, 10 times faster. And as we've worked on different clients' processes through this, it helps you, um, think of things maybe you didn't think of. And so it's so fun to say, oh yeah, I hadn't even thought of that step in breaking that step down, so, Tracy: fun. I, I just think, what did we do before? I mean, I can barely think for myself anymore. I'm like, oh, let me ask, what should I write? Kris: You know, like, what, who do you work? How should I, do you work with the chat, GPT or cla, or I chat GPT? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Awesome. It's, it's I wanna hear about the 15 minute \[00:23:00\] declutter challenge, and then I also wanna hear about your new freebie. Tracy: Yes. Well, if you are listening and you want more help with the five file folders and you wanna listen like you didn't catch all that, I have a free training for you to get. It's at simply squared away.com/the number five files, and then my newest freebie is the 15 minute Declutter challenge. And that walks you through the steps, space in space, explains everything and teaches you how to pick an area to work on. Set your timer work for 15 minutes, and it's been so fun. I have organized Life Academy also, and in there I've had. Uh, the women, they're all women who are decluttering, downsizing their home and getting organized and they have been doing it. We've set up, um, bonus calls where we do that. It is so fun seeing before and after pictures, and they just are talking about how it. Getting you from stuck to started. So if you're feeling stuck, you can even use it to, to \[00:24:00\] do your digital files and follow those steps and everything's spelled out. But it's been exciting, like it's been a year or two since I've created a, you know, a free offer like that, and it's super successful. Kris: it is for these women. That's amazing. Well, I am going to download that as well. Yes. Because I need, everybody needs a little lift. Like I, I, I'm gonna touch on like the fact that you said. Get some help, have someone hold you accountable. Like I think that's the piece that people forget or they think I should just be able to do this by myself, or I'm a little bit embarrassed of this situation, so I don't want anybody to witness what's going on for me here. Exactly. And it's just, it doesn't serve anybody, right? You just, we all need help with this. Tracy: Well, I think the part that I see all the time is I should be able to do this. And I am like, why? Why should you be able to do it? Nobody teaches us these things. And when I'm working one-on-one with someone organizing their computer and setting their business \[00:25:00\] dashboard up, I can see what they're doing and teach them these little shortcuts and show 'em, oh, this is why it's not working. 'cause this tech setting was wrong. But you sit there and shame yourself thinking you should be able to do it. No, you can have someone walk you through it, get it done 10 times faster, and learn things you didn't even know about how you're doing something on your computer or something. That'll be the biggest shortcut you ever Right. Kris: yeah. Uh, Tracy, thank you so much for being here today. Let our listeners know where we can find you. Tracy: Yes, at simply squared away.com. That's my website and I'm on Instagram at Tracy Ho and I have a podcast, uh, the Organized Coach podcast. We just hit a hundred thousand downloads, so I'm super excited about it. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most \[00:26:00\] powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/stop-chasing-clients-podcast-guesting-strategy ### Title: Stop Chasing Clients: Let Podcast Guesting Bring Them to You ### Page ID: 8162782 ### Content: Stop Chasing Clients: Let Podcast Guesting Bring Them to You Your current audience already knows what you do. They've seen your posts, read your emails, heard your message. And if they haven't bought yet, they probably won't. That's not a failure on your part. It's just how audience growth works. You don't have a visibility problem. **You have a new audience problem**. You need to get in front of people who've never heard your name before, but who have the exact problem you solve. Ads cost money. SEO takes forever. Cold outreach feels icky. Speaking gigs require travel and time. You show up as a guest on someone else's show, borrow their trusted audience, and let the host do the selling for you. No ads. No hustle. Just real conversations about the work you love. ✅ Why your marketing stops working (and the 3 stages of audience growth) ✅ How podcast guesting gets you in front of fresh, qualified people ✅ The 4-step funnel that turns listeners into paying clients One great interview can reach hundreds of new people. And it lives online forever. Your next client is already out there, listening to a podcast right now. Let's make sure they can find you. ? Stop Chasing Clients: Let Podcast Guesting Bring Them to You CTC Ep. 50 | Stop Chasing Clients: Let Podcast Guesting Bring Them to You Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Speaker: Why do most marketing strategies stop working after a while? The truth is your current audience already knows what you do. They've seen your posts, they've read your emails, they've heard about what you do. The ones who are going to buy have probably already bought by now. So what happens? You keep showing up in front of the same familiar faces, but the truth is you don't have a visibility problem. You have a new audience problem. You need to get out in front of new audiences. Today I'm gonna show you how Podcast Guesting helps you borrow other people's audiences without paying for ads, putting forth a bunch of effort, spending a bunch of time or money. And we will talk about why it works and \[00:01:00\] exactly how to turn those interviews into paying clients. You might be thinking, I'm doing all the right things, so why am I not getting new clients? It's because of what I call the three stages of audience growth. Stage one is your immediate circle. Your friends, your family, your past clients, they buy because they know you. That's how most of us get started. And then we move into stage two, which is warm referrals. That's the clients that refer you or your network, introduces you to their network. You're still benefiting from that borrowed trust. And then stage three is brand new audiences. And this is where most people get stuck. You need to reach people who've never heard your name before, but who have the exact problem that you solve. and this is where it can get really hard and also really expensive. Because ads cost money, speaking takes time and travel. SEO takes months and months to actually work and a lot of money and cold outreach can feel kind of \[00:02:00\] icky .That's exactly where podcast guesting changes everything you get in front of brand new qualified audiences without the cost or the hassle. so how does podcast guesting actually solve that audience problem? Think about it like this. Every podcast host has already done the heavy lifting. They've built a loyal, engaged audience that already trusts them. Then you show up as a guest and you instantly borrow that trust. Their audience tunes in on purpose. They're not scrolling. They're actually intentionally listening, and if your topic matches what they care about, you've got their full attention. When the host introduces you, they're basically saying, I trust this person so you can too. That kind of endorsement is worth more than a hundred social media posts. And here's why the format works so well. It's conversational, it's not salesy. It feels very, very natural. People get to know you through stories and examples, and you're talking about \[00:03:00\] what you're passionate about, and that is magnetic. and there's no competition for attention. It's just you and the host. They are fully locked in. You are literally inside their ears. One interview can reach hundreds or thousands of new people and it lives online forever unlike social media where things come up for the day or the week and then they go away, podcasts really stand the test of time. they are there for. And when someone is searching for it, you're gonna come up. A great podcast interview can be repurposed. You can take clips of it and share it or post it or quote it. Uh, you can feature it on your website, and then it also builds relationships. Um, this is really one of my favorite things about podcasts that I did not expect. I've been on a lot of podcasts and I've met a lot of podcast hosts, and a handful of those have become really good dear friends, and we've had very fruitful working relationships and even longtime friendships. So \[00:04:00\] when you build relationships with, with podcast hosts, it can lead to more invitations down the road, invitations to come back on the podcast, invitations to come teach inside their community, all kinds of things that you're not even thinking about or are going to arise. So how do you turn a podcast listener into an actual pain client? It's a simple four step funnel.Step one is your guest appearance. You're gonna share your best stories, your best insights, your best teachings on the podcast interview, and the host is really gonna position you as the expert. And then at the end of that episode, you're gonna end with one clear next step. That's your main call to action. So step two is your website. That listener has just spent 45 minutes getting to know you. They're really warm and they're really resonating with what you have to say. You're gonna send them to your website. At the end of that interview, send them to your website and make sure your website is set up to sell for you. When that new person lands on your website, it should \[00:05:00\] continue the same story. It should be congruent and in alignment with all the things that you talked about on the episode and the website that you have really needs to show them exactly how to work with you. And then step three is the sales call. So they've already spent time with you on the podcast interview. They're resonating with your, with your website. And your website is gonna encourage them to book that sales call with you. So these are people that feel more familiar with you. They already trust you. They're gonna show up to the, to the call. They're not kicking tires. They're actually ready to invest. and then step four is getting that new client. The podcast did the heavy lifting before you even got on the call. How incredible is that? When I started focusing on podcast guesting, really everything began to change for my business. Number one, I became much more confident. I was practicing talking about story all the time, and I got really good at it. I stopped chasing cold leads. Everybody that comes my way is \[00:06:00\] warm now because they have spent time with me via a podcast. People start booking calls saying, I heard you on that podcast and I knew you were the one that I had to work with. That is the power of podcasting because it creates trust and connection before you ever meet.So here are some things you can stop doing once your podcast guesting starts working. You can stop spreading yourself too thin across multiple social media platforms. You can stop talking to the same exhausted audience over and over. You can post less on social media. You can spend less or nothing on ads. you can repurpose your podcast content instead of constantly creating new stuff. You can skip the networking events and call dms because when your message is clear and your story connects, you don't have to chase clients. They actually find you Okay, so let's get into the nuts and bolts of how we can actually make this happen. Step \[00:07:00\] one, identify your ideal audience. Who are they? What podcasts do they listen to? What problems are they trying to solve? Step two, find the right podcast. So Search Apple or Spotify or Pod Match. Start Small. 500 loyal listeners beats 50,000 random ones. So it, the bigger the podcast does is not always better. When you find a podcast that's truly aligned with your ideal audience, it's much better to focus on that than like some of the bigger name podcasts. Step three, write a great pitch. So here's where you reach out directly to the podcast host. You wanna make it personal. You wanna reference an episode that you listened to, that you really liked,And you wanna offer three topics that really add value to their audience. make it easy for them to say yes. Step four, prep for Success. Have your stories ready. Have your talking points ready. Put them in a Google Doc and pull that Google Doc up before you get on the the interview practice. Practice how you talk \[00:08:00\] about what you do, and also practice how you're gonna say your call to action at the very end. Don't give them lots of calls to action at the end. Just very simply say. You can go to my website, share the domain address, spell it out for them, and tell them once you get to my website, click on the blue button to book a free call with me. And then Step five, repurpose your appearances. So share them everywhere. I share my podcast episodes. Of course, they're on, you know, apple and Spotify, but I also repurpose them on my website. I feature them on my website, and then for every episode that I'm on, I create a blog post that shares that episode and has the, the transcript of that episode. That way I don't have to write blogs and I can show the Google algorithm that I'm talking about this stuff consistently. And so the algorithm. Likes that, and that's just another kind of bonus way to use each \[00:09:00\] episode. Remember, you're having real conversations about the work you love. So the host does the selling and you just get to show up and share your story. So here's the catch. Podcast guesting only works if two things are true. Number one, your messaging has to be clear, has to be crystal clear. You need to be able to say what you do in a way that makes people lean in. Your story needs to connect emotionally. Second, your website has to be set up to convert when somebody hears you on a podcast. And then of course, they, they're gonna go immediately to your website. When somebody lands there, they should instantly see how to work with you. And your website needs to be building trust and converting them over to booking a call with you. If those two things aren't dialed in, people will say, great interview and never actually reach out. And that's where my signature story selling system comes in.It helps you clarify your story, so it does the selling for you \[00:10:00\] on podcasts and on your website. So here's the takeaway. Stop squeezing juice from the same tired lemons. Get in front of new people who actually need what you do. Podcast guesting is one of the smartest, most efficient ways to grow your business without doing more marketing. And if you're thinking, this sounds amazing, but I'm not sure my message or my website are strong enough to convert listeners, That's exactly what I can help you with. You can book a moneymaking messaging. call at www.Reddoorstories.com. We'll make sure your story and website are ready. So every podcast appearance turns into clients because your next clients, Kris: because your next client is already out there listening to a podcast right now today, waiting to discover you. Now, let's make sure they can find you. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful \[00:11:00\] sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/visibility-strategy-recognition-kj-blattenbauer ### Title: Visibility as Strategy: How to Finally Get the Recognition You Deserve with KJ Blattenbauer ### Page ID: 8215438 ### Content: Visibility as Strategy: How to Finally Get the Recognition You Deserve with KJ Blattenbauer I need to talk about something that might sting a little. You know your stuff. You've spent years mastering your craft, serving clients, and getting real results. You're the real deal. So why is someone with half your experience landing all the media coverage? If you've ever felt that frustration, you're not alone. And here's what I've learned: **waiting until you're "big enough" for PR is costing you clients, credibility, and cash right now.** In this week's episode, I sat down with powerhouse publicist KJ Blattenbauer (yes, we're both KJs, which makes for fun email threads ?). She's spent 28 years helping invisible experts become recognized leaders. ✔️ The foundation work that makes or breaks media opportunities ✔️ How to find newsworthy stories hiding in plain sight in your business One of my favorite moments? When KJ shared how an interior design firm went from zero national press to a **12-month waitlist** in just weeks. All because they finally told their story the right way. The truth is, if you're good at what you do, you're probably too busy doing it to promote yourself. But that silence is holding you back from the recognition you've earned. Ready to stop watching less qualified competitors steal your spotlight? Visibility as Strategy: How to Finally Get the Recognition You Deserve with KJ Blattenbauer CTC Ep. 51 | Visibility as Strategy: How to Finally Get the Recognition You Deserve Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Kris: I would love to welcome to the show KJ Blatten Bauer. She is the founder of Hearsay and she is a PR expert. She has spent the last 28 years helping invisible experts become recognized leaders. In their field. And I'm also excited to share that KJ is a client of mine, so both of us kind of go by kj, which can kind of get confusing in email threads. But we are having a lot of fun working together and I've so enjoyed. Delving into the, the business of PR and what that means. And I thought it would be, a perfect fit to have KJ on the show today. So kj, welcome. KJ: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This \[00:01:00\] is fun. This is fun. Kris: So tell us a little bit about yourself and about what you do. KJ: So I am a powerhouse publicist, and like you mentioned, I've spent the last 28 years helping cool people and bold brands get the recognition that they deserve. Um, I help people amplify their dreams by finding the untold stories and what they do and who they serve and what they offer. And I get that to our media friends. I shared a media outlet. I help connect them with the right movers and shakers, and it results in press that helps them stay booked, busy, and most importantly, profitable with their business. Kris: So give us an example of a client like my, the, my listeners of the this podcast are service providers. They're experts. They know what they're doing. And one of the things that we've uncovered in our work together is, the fact of how infuriating it is when you are an ex. Expert in your field and you have been around for years and then you're watching, people that don't know as much as \[00:02:00\] you do, or people with less expertise kind of rise to. The visibility level that you're really longing for, right? How frustrating that can be for experts. So I wanna hear more about that. Like what are your clients, when you get on the phone with them, what are they complaining to you about? And I also wanna hear a story of how you've helped a client overcome that and what you did. KJ: Sure. Before I dive into that, I just, I, I really wanna put the myth to bed 'cause I think people have a misunderstanding of what PR even is. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs think that public relations, publicity in general, it's only for celebrities or like big brands with giant budgets. And that could not be further from the truth. Small businesses, service providers, solar. Solo founders, they actually have the advantage because they're nimble. They're relatable, and they're often solving the real world problems that the media wants to cover. So one of my favorite, um, wins from this year is I work with an interior design firm and they make beautiful marble kitchens that are like, I'm not a cook, I am not a chef, but I can appreciate these kitchens. They are. \[00:03:00\] Gorgeous aspirational. They're, they're so beautiful. They almost look like AI created them, but they aren't based on the east coast or the West coast where people normally associate high-end design or celebrity design with. They're in one of the flyover states, they're in the Midwest, and so. There aren't a lot of publications that focus on the Midwest. When they came to me, they were struggling. They couldn't grow their Instagram. They were only in the city where they were based. They wanted to travel nationally, but they also just wanted recognition for their work, and they wanted to be able to charge more for their services. Because I mean, when you're building a whole kitchen made outta marble, you have the budget to build a kitchen made out of marble. And so. Using, just sitting with them for the day, going through what they thought was just basic, oh, you know, like we've been maybe featured here, or we maybe worked on this person's house, or we put together this really pretty kitchen, but it just lives in the folders on our laptops. Going through and find, uncovering those stories is where I shine. I find the hidden gems and I help. Craft those stories into things our media friends want to read about, want to share what, what readers and people like me or you. Even if I just microwave really well, I could \[00:04:00\] microwave really well in a marble kitchen. Um, I, I, I tell those stories and so working with them within two weeks, I've found the stories that they needed after sitting with them one day. About a month from that, they had their first three national press pieces. One of them was a giant seven page spread in a international design magazine, and from that, they literally booked a 12 month wait list for projects, even virtual phone calls for an hour. Just because people finally recognized what. They had to offer and could see their beautiful design work. And once you have someone amplify you on a stage a little bit outside your comfort zone, opportunities just snowball from there. So it's not only the wait list, it's not only the virtual calls where they can charge like 10 times what they normally charge in person just for an hour, um, of normal design work. It's. It's seeing that revenue, but it's also building the rapport. You know, once you have a wait list, people realize you're the real deal, even if you were the real deal before, and so that also helps breed more business. More referral systems. It helps you employ the people down the line and build up your team. And so \[00:05:00\] they've seen the success from that and it's, it's truly been amazing the last few years to watch them skyrocket from that, that one day session where we work together. How do you identify if a story is really newsworthy? It is just, it's, it's a bunch. It's a variety of things. It's truly what's going on right now. The trends, right? What are we talking about? But it's also evergreen content. It's fall right now. You know, kids have gone back to school. Some people might be empty nesters, some people might be preparing for their kids to go to school or graduate. Um, it's Halloween season. We're all leaning into sweaters and scars and boots. So there's the fashion aspect of it, but we're also leaning into like soups and comfort foods, and it's just on digging those sorts of messes. There's also, for a lot of people, it's the start of the fourth quarter, right? So for a lot of businesses, a lot of entrepreneurs we're a lot in for the fourth quarter, right? Like this is as much as, as January is for fitness. The end of September, beginning of October for us is like a. Uh, it, it's the, a clean start. It's a fresh slate. It's your last chance to make, to end the year with a bang. And so there's, there's planning involved. It, it's just really finding \[00:06:00\] the unique aspect that ties into not only a calendar timing, but what's trending, what's going on in the world, um, that sort of thing. It, it's not, there's not really a formula for it, but it's also not, it's not hard to do when you sit and have someone else look at it, just like your clients look. Anyone can write. Anyone can be a writer, right? I can get a pen, I can get a notepad, I can write things. Can I write things as well as you? No. And I literally write for a living. Anyone can go into chat GPT and put the same commands in there and then get 900 M dashes, and we realize it's chat, GPT. But when you hire a professional to do your copywriting, it shows you finally. You step away from the process and remove yourself. You have a professional write it for you. The copy comes out exactly how you need to speak to your target audience. I do the same thing. I dig into their business and I try and find interesting stories, interesting aspects that you might just glaze over every single day and what you do to you. It's not a big deal to me. I know exactly what our media friends are looking for, and I know how to spin that to make it a story. Kris: I love it. Yeah, I think that whole bottle effect, which I talk about a \[00:07:00\] lot, whereas it it, when it's your own business, you are quite literally inside the bottle trying to read the label. That can only be be read from the outside. Like, I got to come into your business with a fresh perspective and really. Dial in your messaging and you get to do that same thing with your clients. So you obviously have relationships with what you call your media friends, right? Are those journalists or what do you It could probably could be a group of different job titles, it could be group of Uh, I mean, I spent nearly three decades, right? So I know the inside and outside of a newsroom. I know the right person to contact, whether they're a reporter, whether they're just the person working the desk that shuffles the news to the reporter, whether they're, they're producers on the show and they move around all the time. But for the most part, those people stay in the industry. But there's also bloggers that can help get stories out there. There's influencers that you can partner with. There's brands that wanna partner. With solo entrepreneurs and get their messages out. And so it's just, it's, it's finding the right people that are gonna amplify a message. And I spend a significant amount of time online just seeing who's talking about \[00:08:00\] what, who's, who's doing what, who's conversing in certain circles. And it's, it's that sort of connecting. Kris: And what are they looking for? Like I would, I imagine, I imagine this is a guest that, like your job is to make their job easier, right? So they can do less work. Like you do some of the heavy lifting for them. So then it's just like, oh, this is like a softball, essentially. Is that, is that true? KJ: Yeah, a hundred percent. It is. Um. I like to make a joke that reporters are lazy. They're not, they're working really hard. They're just getting thousands upon thousands of emails and pitches a day thrown at them. And so what I like to come in and do is make their life easier. I'm giving them the topic. I might be giving 'em the headline or the title. In some instances, I'm writing the article for them because I want my clients to appear a certain way and I wanna make it as easy as I can to slide things in to their paper, to their publication, to their digital story. Mm-hmm. And so you're helping shape. All, all of, all of the content forum. So I, I feel like I, at times, am the reporter, I am the editor. I'm doing all of \[00:09:00\] those things just because it serves my client in the best interest to get, to get their information portrayed in the right way. Whether that's writing a news release, even though it sounds really outdated, it's not, or it's putting together a slide image of like, here's the 10 paint colors you need to be focused on in your home this fall. Kris: Right. Right. What, what is the biggest mistake that experts make when they're trying to get media attention? KJ: I think they wait until they're big enough or, um, they've made it before they start putting themselves out there. I think you touched on it in the intro. There is nothing more frustrating than knowing you're an expert, knowing that you know what you're doing and you are the be all end all. You know, you're the goat at what you do, and then seeing someone else just run away with all the attention. It is extremely frustrating. I felt it in my industry. I've watched clients live through it, and I think too often if you're good at what you do, you're busy doing it, which is why you bring in someone like me or someone else that can help you promote your message, because if you are not. Using visibility as a strategy, you're costing yourself business. You're \[00:10:00\] costing yourself time, and the longer you wait to put yourself out there to be ready to hit a certain number or have a seven figure business, whatever the excuse is this week, the longer you wait to start promoting yourself and putting yourself out there and position yourself as the expert, the longer you're holding yourself back to the point of where you might not ever get press one day because you spent too much time waiting. Kris: Right. Oh my gosh. That was gold. Thank you. Um, how, how should somebody prepare if they're like, okay, I'm good at what I do. I've been very busy doing what I'm good at. How, how can they prepare to begin to start pitching themselves? The first KJ: rule is to get your foundation in order, right? So it's, look at your website, it's look at your social media. It's look at your Google business. Set up your LinkedIn everything and make sure that it is all communicating the same message, which I'm Amen. Amen. I'm sure you tell people all the time, right? Yes, totally. What you don't want someone to do is go look at your website and see one thing and they'll go to your social media and see something else. You want same title, same imagery, right? Every single thing should be dialed in, so when anyone sees anything that has to do with you, they're like. \[00:11:00\] Oh, that's the expert on why, or, oh, that's Kim. She's the expert on this. That is how you want, you wanna get that locked in first. Make sure all your links are working. Make sure that no offers are outdated, like holidays coming up. Make sure that when you're promoting something for Black Friday, it's not 50% off an email, but only free shipping on your website, because that's gonna cost you customers. So it's, it's getting the foundation order. That's step one. Step two is identifying. Who you wanna reach? Like where is your target audience? Are they online on blogs? Are they on Reddit? Are they paying attention to influencers? Are they reading magazines? Wherever that is, start finding the context of the people that you wanna reach out there. Once you have that ironed out. The third thing is identifying what's newsworthy about you. You know, what cool offering do you have? What's the latest thing you're doing? Is there something you're, you're, you're launching? For me, it was just talking to you about this, right? Like, I believe visibility is a strategy. You and I both feel very strongly about chat, GPT and where we're headed with ai. So it's, it's little things like that, topics that you \[00:12:00\] might just be talking to your business friends about. Those are great news hooks. Another news hook way to look at it is if you take the top 10 to 12 questions that your customers are gonna ask you routinely, right there, you have 12 news stories. That's one a month that you could be pitching. And then if you take that, like I get asked all the time, how should I get started in pr? Well, the real question they should also be asking is, why have I not thought about using pr? You know, like everyone's worried about social. Everyone wants to go viral. They don't realize the truth of that is a viral post might gain you a couple hundred followers. It's not gonna get you any sales. Those people are there to watch what you're doing. They're not there to purchase what you're doing. So is social the right aspect for you? Who knows? So it's not only the 10 to 12 questions that people normally ask you that you hear all the time in your business, it's the questions you wish they were asking you. KJ: So like, like you, people are gonna ask you like, why should I hire a copywriter? And your response is probably like, why shouldn't you hire a copywriter? But also it should be like, one of your first questions back is probably gonna be like, what? What do, what are, what \[00:13:00\] message do you wanna convey to your people? That's another pitch right there. And you have, you're gonna have more things to pitch than you know what to do with. And then it's just narrowing down like what's the most popular topic? But those three things, you're ready to pitch, you're ready to go. Kris: I think you touched on something really powerful in that this idea of the difference between good PR and PR that actually converts into business, into clients. Um, what, what's the difference? Like, like you said, a post might go viral, you might get a couple hundred followers, or a post might not go viral, but it might bring you in three new clients. So tell me the difference between those two things. KJ: I think there's, I think there's a huge difference between visibility and vanity. I think social media is hugely vanity metrics. We've been taught that we want likes. We've been taught that we want views. We've been taught that we need followers. But personally, I would rather have 20 followers that are buying every single thing that I'm selling than 200,000 that are throwing me likes every once in a while. You know, 'cause likes don't keep my lights on and they definitely don't put french \[00:14:00\] fries on my table. And I really love that. So I love it. I, I think that, um, visibility is a strategy. I think a lot of things that people do. Or just vanity metrics. You see it all the time. If you spend any time on social media or on the internet, you see a lot of people and they're constantly posting and they're spitting out content. And it might be good and it might be bad, and it might just be a lot of content, but are they getting clients? Do they have time to work? Are, are, is, is their message even converting you if they're your target customer? KJ: These are all things that I like to look at because I find that. One or two well-placed articles to your target audience is gonna give you so much business. You're not gonna know what to do with yourself versus the scattershot approach of trying to be on every, if I was trying to be on every single podcast right now, it wouldn't do me any good. I'd be exhausted. I wouldn't have time to work in my business. I wouldn't have time to serve my real clients. Yes, I'd be getting my name out there, but if I'm not getting my name out to the right people, no one's gonna hit the purchase button. No one's gonna book me for calls. So I think it's just being smart about where you're appearing. \[00:15:00\] Kris: I, I wanna circle back, you made a really important point about congruence, about how if somebody comes across you on, in, on Instagram and then they immediately go to your website, if there's a total disconnect there from what happens on Instagram to what your messaging is on your website, you have just lost a potential client. I, I've. I've experienced this myself a lot where people put a lot of time and energy into an Instagram ad, for example. And then I always go from the ad to the website to make sure like, is this a trustworthy company? Right? Um, it what's in it for me, right? We're all wondering that question and. At least half the time. The ad has a completely different look and feel, palette, messaging, everything different from the website and immediately I bail. And that is kind of a, that's something that happens a lot, but it's also a much bigger point around. The importance of congruence, um, at \[00:16:00\] every touch point and how powerful it is. When we beat the same drum over and over and over again, we might think, oh, this is boring. PE we, I can't repeat the same message over and over. But you can, that, that is how you become remembered for solving a particular problem. And that's really the goal. KJ: Right? Right. So when I started out. Oh, so many years ago when I started out so many before the internet when I started out, which is actually a real thing. Yep. We were looking up recorders in a phone book. Um, when I started out before the internet, attention spans were like 30 seconds, almost a minute. You could talk forever. KJ: Then it was, oh, less than a goldfish. And in my head I'm like, how do they even figure out the attention span of a goldfish? But okay, then we were at six seconds. Well now thanks to TikTok, we're at like two seconds or less. No. So you get your information out there and if you're putting something out to people, not only do you have to have it be repetitive 'cause what it takes at least 18 touches of a certain message before people are gonna convert. So you might be sick of talking about it, but it doesn't mean they're sick of hearing about it. Um. You have to control that attention span. If the \[00:17:00\] attention span short and you've already hit 'em up 18 times with a message and then they go from your social media ad or your post to your website and everything's different, all that effort was for nothing. Like nothing looks worse, and there's no excuses. When you can have a va, when you can do it yourself instead of scrolling, instead of Netflix and chilling all night long, it takes two seconds to get across all of your platforms and make sure that everything is uniform. Your bio, your headshot. The colors they, they're the check your links. Like it's just laziness. And it's laziness that's gonna cost you money. Like, you know better, you know better. Kris: Yeah. You know, I call that leaking trust. It's like mm-hmm. You've got holes, holes at the bottom of your bucket and the trust is just falling out. Kris: And to shore all that up, it might take. It might take you an afternoon. Right, right. Just to go to every touch point and make sure everything is buttoned up and congruent and consistent and it will make all the difference in the world. So, um, you touched on something I wanna delve into a little bit more. How has PR changed in the last few years, other than attention spans dramatically shifting.\[00:18:00\] KJ: I think there's, there's more to do. There's more to see and there's. A lot that hasn't changed at all. You know, the basic tenants of public relations have stayed the same. News releases still work. They get your information out there, right? Pitching still works a hundred percent no matter what the method is. That has changed. I think what has changed is the dawn of social media, right? So now we know. Way too much about everyone at all times, and no one has any privacy. And a lot of times I want my clients to just get a diary and just write down what they're gonna say in a diary and maybe sleep on it before they post it. But, um, there's this instant need for attention. So I think that there's more to do, easier to get your message out there. So there's no excuse to not have your message out there. The same on the other end of that sort. It's. The new cycle's gonna move faster. People are gonna cycle through your mess or through your announcement faster. So good and bad, but also. Nothing is gonna get by anyone. If you have a poor customer experience, if you do something illegal, if you do something shady, it that tho those sorts of things. It, it didn't, it doesn't all come out \[00:19:00\] in the wash anymore. It comes out immediately on social media over numerous things and there's, there's the cancel culture, there's accountability, there's all of those things. And I think it's just being mindful of, of where you're. It's mindful of how you put yourself out there. It goes back to keeping everything streamlined. Mm-hmm. Like does this really represent your brand? Is this really what you wanna offer? Is this a hill you wanna die on? Is this what you wanna be known for? And I think I, I think that part of public relations has changed. Back in the day when there was, weren't cameras everywhere, when we didn't have our phones, when we weren't all living with instant knowledge, I think brands could get away with a little bit more. I think you had. A different way to roll out strategy Now I think there's more of an instant gratification and it just needs to be taken into account. Kris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That, that accountability piece that you touched on, I think is. Really intriguing and really wonderful. I think, you know, as experts, we are the real deal and the people that aren't the real deal that does come through in like, for example, Google Reviews, like as an expert, as an authority, we \[00:20:00\] want. Perfection when it comes to our clients. We wanna get our clients the results that we promised to them. And if we know we can do that time and time and time again, the Google reviews are a great way to build up that trust and build that, build up that authority. And in many ways, that can be really reassuring, right? If you're the real deal and you're following through with what you promise, your Google reviews. Are going to reflect that now you have to ask for those Google reviews first. But it does, it definitely is a beautiful, um, method of accountability that, that separates the people that are the real deal and the ones that are just kind of, you know, in it for quick wins or in it for the money. KJ: Um, true, true. And that, that is. PR in a nutshell, right there, right? Like it's one thing if I tell you I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's another thing if you see an ad where basically it's me telling you I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread. But if you hear from peers, KJ really knows her stuff. She is amazing. She has turned this around. And then \[00:21:00\] if you go to Google and see all those review reviews that say the exact same thing as what your peer just said. You are gonna have no hesitation working with me because I just got the third seal of approval from numerous places, whereas. In a lot of instances, people aren't using those reviews. They don't have that word of mouth. And then it's like you, you're seeing something, you go to the website to check 'em out, and you're like, I don't, I don't know if this is legit. And when you're investing any sort of dollars for your business, whether it's 15 to 50,000, you wanna make sure that the person that you're putting in your corner, that you're using to help move your dreams forward knows what they're talking about. Kris: Totally. And I think now like post pandemic and we've just, in the last handful of years, a lot of people have invested a lot of money and gotten burned, right? Mm-hmm. And I am the people that I'm talking to. Have been burned. And so they really wanna be cautious, they wanna be careful, they really wanna make the right decision. And things like PR and reviews, and people believe what other people say \[00:22:00\] about you more than they believe what you say about you. Right? So that can really help hold someone's hand over that threshold. KJ: No, because there's, there's people in every industry. Look, I'll be the first to tell you. There are a lot of PR people who do not know what they're talking about. The industry gets a really bad rap. You know, there's the celebrity publicists. There's the people who one time had a great press hit. Now they're trying to sell you on media training and how they know everything about pr, which. They don't, you know, there's, anyone can say that they're a coach. Anyone can say that they're an expert, which is great. Anyone can say that they're a coach and they're an expert, and if they know what they're talking about, good for them. I support them. If they don't know what they're talking about, it's a world of harm. And so I think having. Someone that can vouch for you. Having those reviews, asking for the Google, having that backup and having it prevalent on your website, on your social media, the on the Google site, even if you have to Yelp whatever it is, I think monumental for you. Kris: Okay. What is one thing somebody listening can do to take action to \[00:23:00\] take a step forward into in increasing their visibility? KJ: Well, the first thing I think is what we talked about. Make sure your foundation's in order, get everything how you want it forward, facing externally to people. Get those ducks in a row. Have what you wanna be known for, front and center. I think the second thing that they can do is spend 30 minutes and Google your industry. Google what you wanna be an expert in, see who's writing about it. Match that to where you think that your target or ideal audience might be. Write those names down, you know, search for their email addresses and then. Start crafting your own version of those stories. If you agree with it or don't agree with it, then reach out to them and just that's how you get the ball rolling. Rolling. But first, make sure that your house is in order, because when your big day comes, when the spotlight shines right on you, you want it to be shining on you in the right fashion. Kris: Hmm. Amen. Where can everybody find you and do you have a freebie that you would like to share? KJ: \[00:24:00\] I, you can find me on Instagram at KJ blatten Bauer. That's kj. B-L-A-T-T-E-N-B-A-U-E-R, or um, hearsay pr.com. H-E-A-R-S-A-Y-P r.com. I am currently revamping everything on my website, and yes, there will be a freebie that's gonna help walk you through how to use visibility as a strategy. Kris: Amazing. Thank you so much for being here, kj. Kris: me. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/from-scattered-messaging-to-client-magnet-story-transforms-website ### Title: From Scattered Messaging to Client Magnet: How Story Transforms Your Website with LaChelle Wieme ### Page ID: 8271053 ### Content: From Scattered Messaging to Client Magnet: How Story Transforms Your Website with LaChelle Wieme Let me guess: someone asks what you do, and you either give them a stiff elevator pitch that makes you cringe... or you word vomit all over them and they *still* don't get it. ? I've been there. And here's the truth nobody's telling you: **if you can't clearly explain what you do in person, your website definitely isn't doing it for you.** That's exactly what I talked about with Dr. LaChelle Wieme on this week's podcast episode. We dove into why most service providers are stuck in what I call the "bottle effect." You're so close to your own business that you literally can't see what makes you unique. But here's the good news: **when you get your story right, everything changes.** ✨ Why making your client the hero (not you) is the key to connection ✨ How to position your website as your marketing hub so you can stop being everywhere ✨ The simple 3-step plan that makes sales calls shorter and easier Your expertise deserves to be communicated clearly. Your ideal clients are out there right now, searching for exactly what you offer. Don't let confusing messaging be the thing that keeps you apart. From Scattered Messaging to Client Magnet: How Story Transforms Your Website with LaChelle Wieme Speaker: \[00:00:00\] I had the most incredible chat with LaChelle Wieme on the Spiral Up podcast. And what we talked about is really gonna help you transform your business story into a powerful client magnet that builds trust and drive sales. So I'm gonna share that conversation with you today. Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. LaChelle: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Spiral Up podcast. I am your host, Dr. Michelle Webe, and boy are you in infantry Today, you guys get a chance to talk to one of my colleagues, one of my friends, one of my spiral up experts, founder of the amazing company, red Door Designs, Kris Jones, you guys, she is a powerhouse when it comes. To really getting down our messaging and making sure that the world understands \[00:01:00\] what it is that we do and how we do it. In a succinct, direct way, because I don't know about you guys as you're listening to this, but how many of you have, like when somebody asks you what you do. It's, it's either like this corny elevator speech that feels really stuffy or it's like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're word vomiting all over them. Like, and they're like, I, I don't really understand still. Right? And so when I met Kris, gosh, it's been a couple years now, I believe. Um, you and I totally hit it off and I'm like, oh my gosh, I need you in my life. And I invited Kris to be a part of my signature spiral up program so that my clients get a chance to meet with Kris and they get a chance to learn from. From her inside of our back office and, and all the things because what she does, you guys is so. Flipping powerful. And for her to get inside my head and be like, this is exactly what you do. I'm like, yes, yes. This is what I do has been such a gift. And I'm so grateful that, that you've been, you know, part of my tribe for a while now. And if you guys wanna see an example of Kris's work, head on over to I Am Life \[00:02:00\] by design.com. Um, you can see my, my homepage was beautifully orchestrated by this brilliant woman. And Kris, I'm so glad you're here. Kris: Oh my gosh, Lashelle. I am beyond. Delighted to be here today. LaChelle: So, I know I kind of gave them a little snapshot of what you do, but what I miss, like give me some, some, you know, passion and, and some inside, you know, scoop into to what it is that you do for people. Kris: Yeah. Well, you, you hit the nail on the head. A lot of entrepreneurs. Are so close to their own business that they've really struggled to write about what they do or find the words to communicate what they do. And this is a lot like. Being stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label of that bottle. That can only be read from outside. And so as entrepreneurs, we get stuck in that bottle and we think if we work harder, if we try harder, if we spend more time on it, we're gonna have some kind \[00:03:00\] of a breakthrough. But ultimately what? What we really need. Is someone to look at our bottle, read the label for us, and give us the clarity and actually be able to identify what makes you unique, what's your special sauce, how are you different from everybody else out there? And then put that into words. And so when I put that in into words for my client. What I'm really doing is crafting their signature story. And the beautiful thing is when you have a signature story for your business, you can use it on your website, you can use it a, a shorter version of that story to answer that question. What do you do? And it compelling way that invites engaging conversation. Um, and you can repurpose the story literally in every area of your business. So the goal is really. To use the story to become more memorable, \[00:04:00\] to, to help you reach more people with less effort. And that is what I'm passionate about and I love being that perspective and that perspective person and the, the storyteller that can really pull out the golden thread that is you and your genius and put it all into a narrative. LaChelle: One. A hundred percent. I mean, what, you know, what I do is, you know, 'cause you help me coordinate all of this stuff, but I help people manifest sustainable five figure month without overwhelm, without overthinking, and, and that has to include a strategy that allows us to work smarter, not harder. When we can be super effective in what we're doing, then the dominoes are able to fall a lot faster. Right. And so oftentimes we will. We'll try something out. We'll throw spaghetti against the wall, we'll see what sticks. And it's really just that DIYing it and that that trial and error that is sometimes necessary. Let's just be real. Like sometimes \[00:05:00\] we have to acknowledge the trial and error, even when I work with you. Like, let's tweak this a little. Like, like, but mm-hmm. But there's so much power you guys, and just like. Having somebody help you move that needle. Mm-hmm. And to be more effective and efficient so that you can see the results faster, so that you can see the sustainable change faster. That you're not constantly running in place trying to figure out what's working, when it really just took one person's outside perspective to put, start putting the piece of the puzzle together and help you get more traction faster. Kris: Yeah, I, I don't think there's any shortcut through that first year or two of being self-employed. You have to do that. You have to kinda DIY stuff and figure it out to kind of understand what you're good at, what you're drawn to, what you like doing, what you don't like doing. Right. You can't, you can't really. Jump over that part of business ownership. But the, the beautiful thing is once you've gone through that, you've, you really \[00:06:00\] realize, okay, these are the, these are the things, these are the high level activities that I wanna engage in. And maybe writing isn't one of them, or maybe you're. Tired of wasting your time doing that. And you know, I think a lot of people early on in business have a DIY mindset and there's nothing wrong with that, but. The question I like to ask is, okay, you're saving maybe a couple hundred dollars DIYing it, um, but how much are you really losing? Really, when people come to your website and they're not, they're not clicking with you, they're not resonating with you, they're not excited to work with you. When you've got tools out there in your. Online presence isn't accurately communicating your brilliance. Like you lose, you have one person come to your website and leave and you've just, that's a lot of money. Right. So \[00:07:00\] Kris: it's a mindset. It's a mindset and yeah. All of that, you know that more than anything. LaChelle: Yeah. And like what you know, you specifically did for me, it just helped me to own like what I had already knew. But you articulated in a way that. Now I felt even more confident to use these same principles, the same language, the same, you know, core message in all of the things that I'm doing, so that my emails are going out and they have the same feel and the same message. My social media is doing the same, and all of the things that I'm doing are aligning and they're, again, when we wanna be efficient, we wanna have a sustainable business. You have to be able to put the things. That are coming together in this beautiful flow. And so when you can start to have the singularity in your messaging, it's going to target those people so much faster. And gosh, we could go on and on about this, but I really wanna shift here and I want to talk about what I've asked you to be on the show for today. Is your book, because I think that that's gonna unlock this beautiful conversation. So why don't you tell us a little \[00:08:00\] bit about what you're up to these days? Kris: So I just finished my first book. It's called From Click to Client, how to Easily create a story driven website that turns visitors into clients. And inside the book I walk you through my exact process, how to attract your ideal clients, how to simplify your marketing, how to command premium rates. How to really tell your story. I don't keep anything bad. I have a very. Streamlined, effective, efficient process that I use with my one-on-one clients and to work with me is right around the $5,500 range. But for people who aren't ready to make that kind of investment in their business, the book is the next best thing. It's like I am holding your hand through, through the process and I walk you through exactly how to do it for yourself. LaChelle: So, Kris, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you see \[00:09:00\] are the common barriers that people have? Because I mean, you guys know, right? Like a part of the spiral up journey is to recognize what your butts are. What are the roadblocks? What's the, what's the barrier, what's the resistance to flow that is gonna get you to where you wanna go? And I'm just curious, like what are the biggest buts that you're seeing out there when it comes. The messaging that people are, well, Kris: I, I like big butts. Um, but, um, so I mean the, the, the meaning like the biggest, um, barriers keeping somebody from doing this kind of work, um, yeah. From Kris: in your book? I think that there are, there are people that don't recognize the power that a website should and should have. You know, sometimes people like newer into business, they're pouring all their energy into social media. \[00:10:00\] But when people find you on social media, not that that can't be an effective way to grow your business, but. When they find out about you, they're gonna go check out your website. And if you don't have a website or you just slapped it together without any real intention, then that doesn't make the impression that you really wanna make. So I think really understanding that your website should be your most powerful marketing tool, and it should really, mm-hmm. Do the job of your top salesperson, it should really take a lot of hours and time and energy off your plate. The other thing that it does is, um. It really allows your sales calls or your discovery calls to be much shorter because people get on those calls, they're already informed, they're already excited to work with you, and so that can feel like a relief. Like you're not having to sell anymore, you just getting on the phone guiding them through the, \[00:11:00\] the hero's journey of your story. And when I talk about story, I'm not talking about like. Your background story or like the founder's story, I'm talking about crafting a narrative that invites your potential clients into a story with you. A story where you play the guide, you play the, the Yoda and your clients. Play the Luke Skywalker, they're the hero. And so everything we do is really from a messaging standpoint, very much about your clients and it helps them feel, seen, feel heard, resonate with you, and, and most importantly, it really builds connection and trust and. The, the beautiful thing is that people don't wanna work with the best person. They don't wanna work with the best. They wanna work with the person they feel the most connected to, and story is the most powerful way to cultivate that connection. LaChelle: Yes. That is so beautiful. And \[00:12:00\] I, I love your, you know, your StoryBrand philosophy that you have used as the, the Cornerstone Foundation of what it is that you do. Why don't you describe a little bit more about what that is? Kris: So there's a book called Building a StoryBrand. If you're an entrepreneur, you've probably heard of it. If you haven't, if you haven't heard of it or read it yet, I would highly recommend you do it. It's an incredibly powerful book about the power. It's a powerful book about the power of story. Um, so any story you've ever read, every movie you've ever been to, any story anyone's ever shared with you, verbally, always follows the same formula. If it's compelling, it follows the same formula. So this has been since like the beginning, the beginning of time gathering around the fireside. It always. Follows a certain flow, and it begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. Mm-hmm. And they are out \[00:13:00\] and about trying to find a guide. A guide enters into the story about a third of the way through the guide is you as the business owner, you're there to help the hero overcome their problem. And the way you do that is you give them a very clear and simple. Step plan. The plan is, and when you watch movies, you're gonna notice this moving forward. But the, the plan is really the thing that allows the hero to go, okay, I know what to do next. I can do this. Like I know what it's gonna take to get to my happy end results. We give them a clear and simple plan. And the plan is the thing that they, once they hear it, they have this internal thought of, I can do this, and then they. Call to action. Uh, when it comes to your website, that call to action is the button. What's the big button that you want them to do next in a movie? It, it's different. It calls them to a action to \[00:14:00\] run to the airport and go, you know, grab the girl before she gets on the plane or whatever, but it calls them to action. And then the way. We stay engaged. So the reason we go to a movie and we sit down and we don't get up for 90 minutes. We don't even look at our phone for 90 minutes. Mm-hmm. Um, it's because there are stakes in every story. The hero can succeed, but the hero could potentially fail to, and we cannot stop watching the movie until we know which of those things is gonna happen. I mean, it always ends in success. Typically, um, but. Even though the formula is tried and true, our brains can't help but engage. And so it makes perfect sense to use this type of a framework. A lot of it is psychology and, and we use the framework of story to captivate people's attention and \[00:15:00\] create, create that connection, and to really allow them to envision themselves overcoming. This hurdle and really getting to know us and trusting us as the perfect guide to help them get to where they wanna go. LaChelle: Yes, a hundred percent. It's comes down to like, you know, does this person understand what I need? Does it work and will it work for me? Kris: Right, right. And what do, what do, do they know what I want? Can they get me to where, where I wanna be? Yeah, exactly. And so it's just And this can work for you. Mm-hmm. And let me show you how to do that. And, and I love how you do that very well, is to make that person the, the subject of the story. Because oftentimes I think that we, you know, default to, hi, I'm Lashelle and I do this, and blah, blah, blah. And it's not about me. It's about. LaChelle: understanding them, but it's about them. Right? \[00:16:00\] And yeah. Such a, Kris: yeah. I, I mean that, that's such a good point. I, I really liken your website, for example. Um, that's one place that your story will live. I liken it to like a first. Five minute coffee date or even a 15 minute coffee date, but they're not there very long. They sit down and if you were to imagine going to meet a new friend for coffee, you wouldn't sit down with them and go, this is what I do and this is how I can solve your problem. And these are the features and the benefits, and here are all the modules. You know, you wouldn't sit down and say that, you would say, Hey, I, hi, I am Kris. Like, what's going on for you right now? What are you struggling with? What are you hoping to achieve? Like, what do you want more than anything? And though that's the way we connect with humans, so it really, it shouldn't be any different than that on our websites. We wanna take the time, make them the central focus of our attention by talking about their struggles, \[00:17:00\] understanding the nuances of, mm-hmm. The difficulties that they're having, helping them feel seen and heard, helping them feel not alone in their struggle, and then reminding them of what's possible if they are to solve this problem, what's their life gonna look like after working with you? And, and I think the most common mistake I see out there is really coaches. Thinking, and I understand, I so understand why this happens, but coaches like throwing up a website and you know, you pick a beautiful template in Wix or Squarespace or wherever you decide. Nothing wrong with any of the builders. In fact, I love cloud-based builders. Yeah. But you pick a template. And those companies are in the business of brochure websites. Um, and so they give you these little areas to input your information and it's like, hi, I'm Elle and I was, I \[00:18:00\] grew up here and I, you know. This, this and that about you. And it's, so, of course this happens because all the templates kind of guide you to do that. But there's a big difference between a brochure website, which kind of just, it's you, you know, you have a website, but the website isn't doing anything for you. It's, it's kind of sitting there like a bump on a log. And when you look. Back on the last year, you're like, you know what? Not any of my clients have actually found me through my website. What the heck is going on? Versus an effective website. So when you really are intentional about your website and you bring strategy to it and storytelling to it, it becomes a really powerful sales tool for you. And that's really what I love to do for my clients. LaChelle: Oh my gosh. I love that so much. So what would you say Kris would be, you know, kind of one of the first steps that somebody could, \[00:19:00\] you know, be like, okay, yeah, I could do this like this, this seems doable and it seems doable for me. So what would you say is some of the first steps that you would have somebody consider? Kris: Well, I, I do have a freebie that would be really relevant for this. Like the number one thing is to change the lens at which you look at your business. So just stop looking at through your own perspective and start looking at it through your client's perspective and really making them the central focus of your communications. I have a freebies. On my website, um, it's called How to Write Compelling Copy in Five Minutes Flat. It's a five minute video and it's a worksheet that's gonna help you, and I'm gonna hold your hand every step of the way. It's gonna help get all that stuff in your head out onto paper, and then I'm gonna show you how to organize it into three buckets and then combine the best items into a story. It'll be the shortest story. You've ever written, but it's \[00:20:00\] the, the most fundamental work that we can do for our business. So, um, I would say that's the first thing is really to begin to look at yourself as the guide and not the hero of your own story. And then to, to go grab that freebie in, in five minutes. That's gonna really help kind of break it down for you how to make that shift. LaChelle: And do the people that you know are gonna benefit the most by your book, by your services? Are these people already very clear on who their avatar is? Or is that something that you wanna, you know, spend a moment just like acknowledging in this moment? Because if you don't know who you're talking to. Like this isn't gonna work, Kris: you know? Right, right. Yeah. Well, and that is the beauty of having that, that couple of years of entrepreneurship under your belt, you get to work with a bunch of types of different people. You really realize these people aren't the ones that they, they \[00:21:00\] dragged me down or they, they, they drain my energy. And this other group of people, they, they're fun to work with. They appreciate me. They don't, they, they're, they're. I'm eager to pay what I'm charging. Mm-hmm. Um, so that kind of clarity is really important. One of the questions that I get almost from every client and, and every client thinks that they're the only one that's, they're the only ones that have ever asked me this, which is they're like, I, I do this thing, this is my expertise. And, but I, but I kind of. Deliver it in two different ways. Like I'm, um, I'm working with someone who's who, she is like a financial coach. Kris: And she does do bookkeeping for business owners, but she's also a, an outsourced CFO for. For personal people. Yeah, yeah. That just have like a lot going on in their life. And so \[00:22:00\] she had this question like, how am I going to tell one story that's gonna totally resonate with both of these types of people? Because they, they're different, you know? So do we need two stories or can we, and I always say the same thing, which is, it's. You, you are the golden thread, and I know how to pull out the golden thread. There's overlap, there's a Venn diagram around the people that you work with. And so we, we, we weave that thread throughout your whole story and there are a bunch of different ways to just make sure we're speaking to both people and really connecting with them. But I like to do it on one page because as a business owner. You just wanna have one address that you can send everybody to and just know that's where, just go there and you can self-identify, you know, if you're the right fit or not. Just makes our lives so \[00:23:00\] much easier. LaChelle: Absolutely. I mean, that was one of the things that I did, you know, this last year, you've been a part of my, my journey of getting all of my systems and my processes really streamlined so that I can focus on the traveling that that's coming up. And, and that was one of the things is that I really realized that I do have one avatar. But she might need more or less support or her, her budget might be a little bit, you know. She can afford it. She's willing to just like, make the sacrifices or, you know, she's gotta get her feet wet first. And so creating essentially a product suite that meets them at their journey. But it's really one person that I'm speaking to and, and I think that that's really freeing because I think a lot of times we overcomplicate at least my clients and, and myself, that's really why I track them because it's, it's easy to over complicate things. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. We wanna get it right and, and therefore we, we take the easy out of it. And so that was one of the things that felt very \[00:24:00\] freeing, is to just have this very simple story. Yes, that I basically just get a chance to find the person, and this may be where they're at on their journey and how much support they need around that. Kris: Mm. That's so beautiful. Yeah, I think you, you nailed it with, you know, having a suite of offerings so people can decide at what level they wanna engage, but you know that you're welcoming people in depending on what they wanna need. The other thing that comes up a lot with my clients is they'll say, okay, well I, I work with women. Um, I work primarily with women, but I do have like for every a hundred women that I work with, there are like two or three men that. Wanna work with me, and I do work with them, so I don't wanna leave those people out. And so what happens is I just remind people we need to really strike a \[00:25:00\] chord, really connect with the 80% of the people that are coming to you. The other 20%, the riff-raff or whatever. That's not a derogatory term, it's just like, yeah. Yeah, those other people are gonna come to you anyway no matter what. Yes. And so let's focus on that, that 80% that you really wanna, if you mostly work with women, we are talking to women. Kris: Yeah. And it's, and then you can decide if somebody comes to you outside of that definition. Yeah. You could just decide, oh yeah, I'm gonna make an exception. Or, yes, I work with men too, but I just. LaChelle: People will connect with your messaging. And I find that a lot when I'm, I'm working with clients as well, Kris, that they're afraid to niche down and when we speak to everyone, we speak to, no one. Right? And so that's why you're so good at what you do. And so they're afraid to niche down and I love telling the story, so I'm just gonna share the story. 'cause you might be kinda, you know. Tickled by this too. So my \[00:26:00\] very first coach that I ever hired was somebody that had this weekend intensive, so it was like a, you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And you know, in my opinion at the time, like $3,000 was a lot of money to spend on somebody. Right? And the thing that was so interesting about this particular coach was that she very specifically marketed to brand new coaches that were African American women. Okay. Mm-hmm. So if you guys are watching me on video right now or have seen any of my pictures, I am not African American. And I was just like, okay, I love your messaging so much. She was like speaking to me and so I reached out to her. I'm like, Lashelle, you know, I'm not really necessarily in your target audience, but you know, would, would we, her name was Lashelle, by the way. That's how we met, like, my gosh, US together. So, so I, I was like, Hey, Lashelle, like. I love your name. No kidding. But like, you know, I, you know, I don't fall into like who you're specifically marketing to, but I really love your message. You know, \[00:27:00\] would, would we, you know, be able to work together? And, and she's like, absolutely. You know, and so I think that it's like even more of. Just the power of her messaging and what she was doing was speaking to me, and so the right people, you guys are going to find you regardless if it's a man or a woman, black or white. Right. You know, whatever. Like if the messaging is so point on. Mm-hmm. You're not going to, to have to worry about missing out on people. You can very competently niche down to speak so directly to the person that they're like, how in the heck did you get in my head? Mm-hmm. Like, how do you know this? Mm-hmm. Like, how do you know me so well? Mm-hmm. And that's how you know that you did it well. And then it takes very little, like, I'm like, I already knew that I was gonna work with her even before we get on the sales call. LaChelle: You, you can let your messaging sell for you. Yeah. So that you don't have to, to worry about having to convince anybody of anything there, but basically saying, can I still work with you?\[00:28:00\] Kris: yes. I love that story. I love it. And how was the, how was the weekend for you? Is it really wonderful? LaChelle: Yeah, of course. She meet, she needs exactly where I needed to be and, and I think that, you know. It's, it's so cool. Like how the right people are gonna be sent to you exactly when you need them. Mm-hmm. And I'm very open and aligned with like, when you are solution oriented and you're open to the solution, the universe will send you the solution. But you have to be willing to, and you have to be willing to receive it. Right. And so fun, you showed up when I needed you and I've been able to share your beautiful work with several of my clients and so it's so fun. Oh my gosh. I wanna know, like, um, you know, as we, as we kind of like starting to wrap up the conversation, I wanna know what else you want your, your person who's listening because you, they know, they're like raising their hands right now. Like, oh my gosh, she's totally speaking my language. Like, yes, I \[00:29:00\] don't know. It's how the heck to say what I'm doing and I do feel like I'm flattering and, and I do want to have my website sell for me. And all the things like, how, how. Do you want to wrap up this conversation and how do you wanna speak to that person? Like what do they need to know? I, I think that the first thing I would say is get support. You know, if you're struggling with your messaging, get support because it's so important. Uh, and it does so much of the heavy lifting for you. And just like you resonated with the other lashelle. Message, right? Mm-hmm. You, you, you resonated with the words so much that you had to reach out with her, even though it was clear you were not like her ideal client. And you know, it's on a, on a lesser scale. When you go to Amazon and you buy something, you look at the picture of it, but you don't buy it based on the picture. You look at the reviews and the words mm-hmm. Kris: people have \[00:30:00\] shared about it, and that's when you hit that buy button. Kris: so. Your words really matter if you wanna get off the hamster wheel that, I think you touched on this earlier, lashelle, which is just like it's human nature to make things more complicated than they need to be. And as an entrepreneur, we're often doing a lot of this stuff in a silo. We don't have a team of people, we don't have. People we can bounce things off of. Mm-hmm. And that can accelerate the complicated, all the stuff I, I like in like all the ideas and all the stuff we have in our head as entrepreneurs. Like it's a lot like a typical American garage. You walk outside, there's piles of boxes, the cars are actually parked in the driveway because there's so much stuff in the garage. Wow. And it's really hard to identify. What's the treasure in this garage and what's the \[00:31:00\] trash? What's the clutter? Yes. Where's the, I can't tell. They all, they're all boxes. They're overflowing. They're, you know, tipping over. And when you get the support that you need, you get to very clearly identify. The treasure, the golden thread that is within you, and you can clear away all the clutter. And I think of, of story, a compelling story is really, you can look at it like a filtration device. It filters out all the noise and it keeps one beautiful, clear and simple narrative that truly connects. Kris: So I, I think that, um, my passion is really like. Helping alleviate the struggle of trying to do it all alone and also let people know that like you don't have to be everywhere doing everything when. Think about \[00:32:00\] your website as I think of your website, as the center of your marketing universe. Kris: that you do in life, in in marketing or any activity. Yeah. Point people back to the website. Point people back. If you're on a podcast point, people back to the website. If you're at a networking event, point people to the website. Kris: And it can just. Alleviate so much of the selling, the directing and figuring out where to send people. A lot of people that I work with are like, oh, I just send people to my LinkedIn 'cause I, I'm a, I'm ashamed of my website. And, and that is common. I mean, that is common. People, entrepreneurs pretending their website doesn't exist because it's. So disconnected from who they truly are and what they're all about, that it just doesn't, it doesn't resonate with them and they're ashamed of it. And, and so my, one of the big things that I like to, to teach my clients is pick one or two \[00:33:00\] things that you, gen genuinely enjoy, like. Podcast guesting, or do you really love making YouTube videos or, yeah. Do you really love email marketing? Just pick one or two. You don't have to do if social media isn't your thing, you do not have to be on social media, period. You don't, and do podcast guesting instead of social media. I personally don't love being on social media, like I have nothing against it. I enjoy like scrolling Instagram, but I don't wanna spend my time. Kris: I, my, one of my things that I chose is podcast guesting, which is why I'm here right now. It's fun, effortless. It doesn't feel like the constant homework that's hanging over my shoulder that I, that I've never done with. And so, um, you know, I would just say like, don't adopt marketing \[00:34:00\] ideas just because that's what everybody else is doing. LaChelle: That's why, that's how we get into overwhelm and, and burnout and, you know, shoulding ourselves and how we get into this place of, of suboptimal. Productivity because we're doing too many things instead of doing anything really, really well. Yeah, and I, there's something that you said that I wanna make sure that we touch on briefly, because I think it's important. So you mentioned that our website is kind of like the central home, the hub of somebody's business, which I totally agree. Right? And you also gave us beautiful analogy of, you know, clean out the garage and you know, what's the garbage and what's not. And I think that one of the things that I have been guilty of in the past, before we worked together is because my website was my home base. Right. And it collected all of the things that I have going on. Yeah. It's really easy for me to just have this overwhelming space for people to come instead of being very clear in one call to action, one place that we're asking 'em to go. And I just wanted to \[00:35:00\] hear what your perspective is on that, because I think that the, a really, um, unique lens that a lot of people are, are possibly missing. Kris: Yeah, I mean, I don't, I've never done speed dating before, but, um, I know it's a thing and, and I think it'd be kind of fun, but, um, I, like, I really think of your website as like a first five minute coffee date. It is really not the place to overwhelm people with information. And I know like. No one's intention is to overwhelm that person with information, but they're like, I had this idea, or I should add it, that this to my website. I'm gonna add this. And then a year goes by and it's kind of all a collection of, it's almost like a collage of like ideas and little phrases and, and I think ly um, what it does is it just allows. It forces people to spend more time on the website to \[00:36:00\] figure out what's the essence of what you do. And when people have to burn brain calories to figure out what it is that you do, their brains will literally shut off. Our brains are constantly trying to conserve calories, so if you kind of have a collage of ideas and information and phrases and pictures and gifts and stuff like that. It's fun to create that stuff. I mean, I am you, I think you and I both share this love of just. Design and beautiful graphics. And I remember you telling me one time my, my happy place was in Canva on a weekend creating like visual. I had the whole house to myself. That's what I would be on. I I totally hear you on that. I love like visual storytelling too is super powerful. Yeah. Um, but your website is not your resume. It is not a hub for all your ideas and information. \[00:37:00\] If, if you want to do that, create a hidden page on your, on your website and just have that be your brain temp of ideas. Um, but don't make it public facing, like, again, it really does come down to, it's, it's helpful to think about story as that filtration device. It's filtering out the noise and keeping one clear, cohesive. Yes. Beautiful narrative. Yeah. LaChelle: I love that so much and I'm just gonna say that like I'm sure people are just dying, like how do I get access to you? So you guys are gonna have all of the ways that you can get her book in the show notes as well as how to connect with her, follow her, check out her website, all the things inside the show notes. So I'm just gonna say that and I'm just gonna like give you a little bit of like this truth of the hug nudge. Kay. Because I think that a lot of our butts are that I will deal with my website. When I get all of these other projects done, I'll add it to the list, I'll add it to the garbage pile of things that I will do in order \[00:38:00\] to become a better business owner. And that was, you know, total guilty on that, on that side myself. And one of the things that I appreciated about you specifically, Kris, is that you basically took the hard work out of it. You had me do a a worksheet, and then you essentially created the copy of my website for me in a matter of. I don't even know. Um, it was very short period of time, like very short turnaround and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like that was not as hard as I thought it was gonna be, and so I could check that off my list. And so if you guys are at that point where you're like, okay, yep, I got a big butter on that. I know that it's just gonna be something that I'm gonna add to my list and then should I myself, um, that would be, um, a nudge to possibly reach out to Kris and see, you know, what that could look like for you if you're not there yet. If you're still in the space where you are, you know, starting your business, you're in that, that. Explor exploration stage. You know the book is gonna be such an amazing, amazing way for you to get the help that you need now with where you are. And \[00:39:00\] I'm just gonna say like one of the last people that I've hired, I read her book and I'm like, this woman's speaking to me. And so who knows? You might find yourself in. Where you're like, well, I guess I'm making this a priority before I thought I would. So it's been, it is been really fun to see kind of where the journey is and, and when you're ready for a solution, a solution will appear and, um, in the quantum space, like be thankful for the solution already. And I believe very much so, Kris, that our conversation is gonna be a blessing for somebody who's listening to this, whether it be a little. Tweak here or there to make things more effective, effective and efficient. Or like, oh my gosh, where have you been in my life? And so I'm just so glad that I got to spend some time with my friend and that people got a chance to know you. And you guys got to see the caliber of people that we have inside of the spiral up. And um, the experts that I bring in to not only work with clients, but to teach clients and, I mean, these are people I handpick and Kris, you are the cream of the crop sister, so I'm so glad they're. Kris: Thank you, \[00:40:00\] such an honor to be in your close network. I can't even tell you you are. You are such a bright star and every time I'm around you I feel more and more energized, and that is in and of itself, just a wonderful quality. So thank you. LaChelle: Thank you you guys. I hope that you got as much out of this as I did. Make sure that you leave a review. We love to listen, um, to, you know, um, to things that you say on stories and social media. We love to read your reviews. We love to just find out how we impacted you. So please reach out and, um, I know you'll get in the email. If you're on my email list, you'll get an email with the link to this episode. So reply back to that, like, let me know how this, this resonated with you, and I'm so glad you're here and I will see you all next. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. \[00:41:00\] That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Your website becomes a digital brochure that just sits there like a bump on a log ? - Potential clients visit, get confused, and leave without booking - You rely on referrals because your online presence isn't doing the job - Your scattered messaging across platforms makes people work too hard to understand your value - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/position-yourself-as-expert-when-you-doubt-yourself-molly-claire ### Title: How to Position Yourself as an Expert When You Doubt Yourself with Molly Claire ### Page ID: 8315770 ### Content: How to Position Yourself as an Expert When You Doubt Yourself with Molly Claire I see so many brilliant coaches and consultants hiding behind "I'm not ready yet." Not ready to raise rates. Not ready to call themselves an expert. Not ready to show up confidently online. Meanwhile, they've got years of experience, incredible results for their clients, and expertise that could change lives. My friend Molly Claire knows this struggle intimately. She's a master coach who helps other coaches step into their authority, even when doubt creeps in. In our latest podcast conversation, she shared something that gave me chills ? She helped **12 coaches become international bestselling authors in just 6 months.** Not by making them more qualified. But by helping them own the expertise they already had. ? Why traditional mindset work keeps you stuck (and the holistic approach that actually creates lasting change) ? The power of collaboration over trying to do everything alone ? How to build authority even when imposter syndrome whispers "who are you to charge premium rates?" One of my favorite moments? When Molly talked about watching her coaches speak with confidence they never knew they had. Women who used to hide in the background now commanding rooms. You don't need another certification. You don't need five more years of experience. You need to stop hiding and start positioning yourself as the expert you already are. How to Position Yourself as an Expert When You Doubt Yourself with Molly Claire Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. It is my delight and pleasure to have Molly Claire here on the podcast today. She is a coach extraordinaire. She helps her clients who are coaches become much more effective at coaching and actually get the results that their clients are dying to get. Molly: Thank you. It's such an honor to be here with you, Kris, as always. Kris: So there's been a lot going on the lap for you in the Yes, in the last six months and I have been lucky enough to witness all of it. Um, back in, I think it was springtime, right? You had this idea for a book. So walk us through from Idea to today. Molly: Oh my \[00:01:00\] gosh. So yes, it was May. And of course, you know, Kris and I, Kris, you and I are in this mastermind together, so you were behind the scenes hearing all of this come about. And so last May, I was approached about being a part of a book anthology, um, for me to be a co-author in this book Project endorsed by Tony Robbins. And it was this, you know, thing I was interested in, curious, a little bit of excitement. And as I started looking into it. I, what came to my mind is that this project in particular, while it was great, wasn't really aligned with what I was brought wanting to bring forth with my work. And, um, but what happened as a result of that is I really started thinking about the parts of this project that I liked and started thinking. How could I really be a part of something that did align, that did bring, you know, my work about, and it was almost just like this bolt of lightning that hit me. And I could see, um, the faces of many of my clients who I've master coach certified and thinking about \[00:02:00\] their gifts and their, their mission and their business. And I decided that. I wanted to create a book, a collaboration with these women. Um, I mean, so that's really how it started. And this, this was in May. I reached out to them around mid-May. I mean, here we are. It's October as we're recording this, and the book launched last month and became an international bestseller. Kris: That is incredible. I think so often when we're pregnant with a book, right? When we have this idea that we wanna write a book. We assume that we have to do it all of all ourselves, and that we have to mm-hmm. Take a year and work and work and work. And not that this project did not require a lot of work, but from my perspective, it felt like it was divinely guided and that there was this flow and kind of. Effortlessness around how it all unfolded. Like you baked in some support, right? With Yes. Yes. Your, your book expert. And these women contributed, uh, each woman wrote their own chapter, right? \[00:03:00\] Tell, tell us the name of the book and, yeah. Yeah. So here it is. Molly: I have it in my hand, and this one doesn't have the little, you know, international bestseller, um, ribbon, but that's, that's coming soon. But it's called, she Rises. Insights and wisdom from the women of the Masterful Coach Collective. So yeah, there was a lot of support in this and what I'll say is I know that many of your listeners are people who have a business that is like born of their heart and soul, right? And work that they want to do. And I this book. I, I just keep saying it has a magic about it, and that is because I leaned into a project that I could feel was going to light me up and that I could feel that, that it was also going to light up and elevate each of these women and allow a ripple effect of their messages in the, into the world. So it's kind of like. If you think about, if I'm leaning into a project because I feel called to it, I feel lit up, I feel energized, and then I'm bringing together 12 \[00:04:00\] women who are, who have like done the work of the heart and soul and who serve others, and they come in with that same energy. I mean, it's, it's inevitable that it's going to be. Wildly impactful. Right? And so, so yeah, this book is, and I'll tell you a little about the sort of support and processes as well. But this book, each, um, each of us, uh, contributed a chapter to the book. And so, you know, the chapters they. They range from facing, um, you know, things like grief, you know, the unthinkable, um, how to handle our emotions in those times in our lives when we feel especially stuck facing midlife. Um, you know, all of the things and the phases we experience as women and in particular. How do we navigate them? Not just so we're surviving, but so we're actually thriving and becoming. So there's just a lot of magic in these and it and it also because all of these coaches have trained with me in my like methodology. We're weaving in all of these concepts that \[00:05:00\] just make for really powerful coaching and powerful growth. Kris: And had any of these women written a book before or was this kind of a new adventure for them? No. Yeah. Wow. Molly: This is one of my favorite things. So I had written a book before and it, you know, became a bestseller and it was such a fun experience for me then. And, and this was a fun experience in a different way in that for, for, for me to be a part of this project and all of these women. Rising up, stepping up, stepping into their authority and to become international bestsellers. For the first time and getting published was still kind of buzzing from the excitement of it. So, Kris: so tell, tell me more about, you had mentioned you got on a Zoom call with these women after the book launched and after it became a bestseller internationally. Um, what were, what were some of their reactions when, when they got the news When we Yes, the call that we had, I, I remember the one you're talking \[00:06:00\] about. So this was actually on the day of launch and we were still like waiting for some of the rankings. We had ranked number one in Canada and we were kind of climbing the charts in the US and um, and watching the UK as well. And we came together on this call and. So what it was, was it was a live cast for us to kind of tell about the book. So there was a spotlight on each of these women. And I will tell you that here I sat in awe of these women who I've seen them. Um. You know, in those moments when they had the most doubt, when they were feeling the most fragile, when, when they were struggling to put themselves out there, and, and I, I see these women come together and you would have thought that these women had been speaking on stages and spreading their message their entire lives. Wow. And I, I mean, truly, like two in particular that stand out is I think of one of my, one of the authors who. You know, when she first came to me to \[00:07:00\] work with me, she would kind of hide in the background of the groups and she told me it's really hard for me to speak up. And it was like when she started speaking, it's like the room stopped and it was like all eyes on her. Um, and another one of these coaches that actually she got a, had a stroke at the age of 48 and had to really relearn her communication skills and her ability to articulate, and I mean, she was articulating these. These concepts that are so deep in, in such a masterful way, and it just, it just lit me up. So I know that doesn't exactly answer your question as far as how they reacted, but, but it was really beautiful to be a part of watching these women step up and, and to answer that question as far as reactions, I think we've all just been over the moon for the last, you know, week or so, And, uh, everyone's kind of figuring out. Okay, now. Now what do we do? Right? What do we do with this? It's out there. So Kris: yeah, it's pretty incredible what can happen in a year, let alone half of a year, when many of these women would \[00:08:00\] never have thought of themselves as authors or. Leaders in the field, and now they've got this badge, um, under their name. Yeah. And what a wonderful feeling, what a great way to elevate everybody. Did, did everybody know what their chapter was gonna be about or was that part of the process? Molly: Pretty much. I mean, so what we. I had the idea, I reached out to my book guy, I'm like, I wanna do this, let's do it. And he said, oh, this sounds great. And you know, I know you've heard me talk a little about this, Kris. It's like I said, well, we wanna get this out in the fall. And he said, well, you have to understand, you know, it takes a while for people to get on board. And I thought, he doesn't know these women, he doesn't know this community. So we had to call that very next. Week. And, and what we did in the process is I presented it to my clients, you know, my certified clients that I knew were ready and capable and had so much to offer. And, um, and then they each, they, you know, filled out an application and on that they proposed what their chapter would be. So, you know, these women are, are very skilled and very experienced. And so most of them, they knew what they wanted to write \[00:09:00\] about. There was maybe a little bit of sifting, but, um, but pretty much it was just a go. I mean, and, and literally. We had our first group call with the committed authors, the end of May. Wow. We had drafts of chapters in by the end of June we were doing editing July, and then it was just, you know, all the final stuff. Mm-hmm. So it was, uh. It was an, a very intense and powerful project. Kris: Yeah. Tell me about the support that you got from your, your book guy. Molly: Yeah, my book guy. I know. So, um, Everett is, he's really incredible and, and he really. Supports us in, in the steps along the way. He's, he's not involved in the content creation piece of it, but we worked, you know, with his editor and then getting the cover set and the title set and the launch in Amazon and really helping us with our strategy. So Everett's fantastic with that. He's done it for a very long time. Like I said, he helped me with my book in 2017, and it's just gotten better and better since then His process. Um, and then we also had a writing coach, so, um, Kathy, who works with \[00:10:00\] Everett, um, often she met with each of the authors and kind of, you know, because it's, it can be pretty intimidating to, to contribute to a book and especially. To feel like, okay, well I wanna make sure I'm pulling my weight or I want my, my, you know, chapter to be really great. So I think a lot of that was just giving that peace of mind, and then she gave that guidance along the way. So it really, and you know, like you said, several of these women had thought about writing a book one day. None of these women started. 2025 with the idea in their mind that they were gonna be a published author by the end of the year. So it was like, uh, it was, there was a learning curve, but between Everett and his team and I was there leading them and Kathy and all the steps along the way. It just was a really nice way for them to lean in and step up to their expertise. Kris: Totally. And I think when you have a collaborative project like this, it's important that the chapters all work together. So how lovely that between you and \[00:11:00\] Kathy, you could kind of lead the way to make sure, like one chapter wasn't not fitting with the rest of the group. Right? Yeah. And it all kind of flows together. Yeah. Yeah. Well, congratulations. I am so happy for you. Thank you. Yeah. So number one, bestseller in the us, number two in the uk, is that right? Yep. So we Molly: hit four categories in the US at number one, um, and then, uh, number one in Canada and number two in the uk. So. Kris: When you, let's talk strategy for a minute, then I wanna shift gears and talk about your own business. But there is a strategy to launching a book and getting that type of notoriety under it. Yeah. And what's the, the high level, you don't have to get into too much detail, but I. I haven't really gone through that process. So I'm just curious, like what is that strategy that ensures that you get to number one in a category? Molly: Yeah, so, you know, and, and part of the details I wouldn't even be able to articulate because Everett's team does the heavy lifting on that. But what I \[00:12:00\] will say is that, um, you really. You have to understand that this, you know, like a New York Times bestseller, those are basically purchased bestseller spots. You know, it's, it's how it is. So, but with, with a, a book launch like this, where you're going for these, you know, this Amazon bestseller, it really is how many people can you reach and get excited about this book, you know? And so what that meant for us strategy wise is that. You know, I, I was kind of leading up the project 'cause you know, I, I have a little bigger following and a little bigger list than my clients, but I really reached out to people that would be excited about the project and I said, Hey, will you help promote this book on launch day? So we had like a special price for the Kindle version of the book that day, and I had 12 power partners. These are my friends and colleagues that have great lists, great followings, who were excited about the book project. I put all the materials. Together for them to promote. And, and then I also started, um, doing as many podcast \[00:13:00\] appearances as possible, promoting the book ahead of time. Mm-hmm. So it really, it, it takes quite a bit of buildup leading up to where you're gathering a whole bunch of people on your list ready to buy the book on the day that it launches. Molly: So I led that up. Yeah, go ahead. And it's, and Kris: it's worth it because you get it for 99 cents on launch day, but if you wait, it's much more than that. Molly: Yeah. And it, you know, and with this, so, and with several of the authors, they also had their. Own list that they were building. Some of them relied on mine, but it was just such a cool collaborative effort because like one of my coaches, she's phenomenal with reels on Instagram, so she was, you know, giving everyone tips and putting things together. So it was, it was just a lot of collaboration, a lot of excitement buildup, a lot of partnership. And again, there's just a lot of power in that, Kris: just energetically. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, yeah, I think as self-employed coaches or consultants. It, it can be a lonely path at times, and you're kind of in charge of your own business and \[00:14:00\] the opportunity to collaborate and have like the, the shared load, like to share the load of navigating this big ship and, and keeping it on course is such a gift. And I think it's so cool that. The way it came about, like Tony Robbins obviously knows what he is doing and he knows, he knows that that this collaborative way of doing books works and that it, it can be really effective and I love that. Instead of you just. Looking at it and going, okay, yes or no. You are like, yes, but I wanna do it my way and I wanna do it in a way that really feels aligned with me, my work, my people, and elevating everybody throughout the process. So, yeah. Yeah, really, really fun to see. Yeah. So let's talk a little little bit about your business. So. I know your business quite well, but why don't you fill us in around exactly what it is that you do for the coaches that you work with? Molly: Yeah, so, um, I \[00:15:00\] train coaches. I specifically, I've offered various advanced coach trainings over the last decade. Um, I've trained and worked with thousands of coaches, master coaches, and. Right now the, the main way that I work with coaches specifically is I offer a holistic master coach training. And so what that means is this is a chance for people who are already coaches, you know, they're already certified in some methodology. But they really find themselves lacking in skills. You know, feeling insecure in certain ways where they can see their client needs something more or something different, or their client's not getting results and they just know there's more to learn. And so Master Coach training is the container where I train coaches in the four fundamentals of lasting change. We're looking at like a holistic approach to coaching, which I can tell you more about what that is. And then we're also, um, dipping into the many different niches that that coaches can lean into. And the \[00:16:00\] reason we do this in this master coach training is. Is, well, a few things. Number one, we all know when our clients are coming to us with their life. All the areas of their life are gonna come up. So even if we don't specialize in something, it's really a good idea to be prepared and well equipped. And the other thing is that as coaches naturally, because this is a work of, of the heart and soul and it, and it's always evolving that. Sometimes we shift into different niche areas, so, so that in a nutshell, is what Master Coach training is. Kris: yeah, I think you touched on something I think really important, which is that many coaches get certified and they have got that badge, but they don't necessarily have the skills to get the results for their clients or their clients come to them, you know? Our lives aren't divided into buckets, right? Everything is integrated. If we're struggling with something personally, but we're working with a business coach, like there, it's all gonna get infused. So as a coach. It's very important. \[00:17:00\] Like I think it would be kind of scary as a coach to show up on a call with a client and feel like, oh my gosh, I'm in over my head here. I, you know, I, I, of course our intentions are good. We wanna help our clients, but what a scary feeling to not feel like you kind of have the skills necessarily to, to get them over that hump. Molly: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and you know, part of the reason that I leaned into doing advanced coach training and master coach training is that I did a lot of contract work early in my coaching career where I was doing level one training for coaches, and as great as the coach training was, I just, I saw just one after the other rounds of coaches that were certified. That were lacking in skills and they could feel it, you know? And then the problem is that it's like, there, there are the skills of coaching and then there is the skill of building a business and marketing and sales, right? There are so many things, right? And so it, it's like, it, it. Building a business can be kind of \[00:18:00\] scary. It can be a lot. So if, if here I am, if, if I'm a new coach and I'm struggling with my skills and then my business isn't working well, that is just gonna just like the doubt and, and the insecurity. It, it just, it almost puts just a huge damper on everything. And, and what I found is that. When I work with coaches to really infuse, and it's not, I hate to just say infuse confidence. Confidence is powerful, but as I am, as I'm truly helping them to build their skills and, and really, um, be able to connect the dots for themselves personally so that they are. Completely certain that they are totally capable of bringing exactly what their clients need. And when I can help them with that, everything else becomes easier. And, and the business ends up being led by that mission to serve and to help, um, which is what I think is the best way to lead a bus, a coaching business personally. Kris: So beautiful. \[00:19:00\] Yeah. I've heard you talk in the past about thought work and this idea, you mentioned holistic coaching and how thought work, of course, it can be powerful. I, I, for my listeners who don't know what thought work is, I'd love to hear about that and maybe the shortcomings of it and how you holistic approach, uh, um, it informs the thought work. Molly: Yeah. Yeah. So. So thought work, um, you know, anyone that's familiar with the life coach school, the life coach school is like the, if you're gonna look up thought work, that's probably what you're gonna find. So, and that was where I had originally trained. And so thought work is, and when we look at the coaching space, this is any kind of mindset work. This is looking at, okay, where are my thoughts leading me? Or, um, you know, when we have a certain thought, it creates a certain feeling and drives an action and creates results. So there's, there are a lot of. There are a lot of thought models, if you will, right, as to how the power of our thoughts influences our reality. So in a nutshell, that's thought work. Now, \[00:20:00\] understanding the power of our mind and our thoughts and our beliefs is extremely helpful, and yet. The truth is that if, if a coach is so focused on having the right thoughts and having the right beliefs and hitting that really hard and not understanding the. Not understanding the emotional world of the human being in front of them, um, the patterns in the nervous system in the person in front of them. If we don't understand more of how the brain and the body and the nervous system and everything actually connects, then. Then first of all, that thought work is only gonna get you so far, and second, it can actually end up being a detrimental approach to people because people start going to this toxic positivity of trying to think themselves out of their emotions. Mm-hmm. Or. Convince themselves that a situation that is probably not good for them is actually okay. So that's kind of it in a nutshell. But please ask me more \[00:21:00\] questions. 'cause I wanna make sure I'm, I know. Kris: I think the way you explained that was perfect. Now I wanna hear an example of what you just shared. Like you're in a situation and you're basically not acknowledging that this. Situation is unhealthy or not, not right for you? Give me an example of either your life or a client example. Yeah. So we can, we can understand it a little deeper. Molly: Yeah. So, so let's talk about the relationship space, for example. Okay. So, um, you know, it is true that. If, if I'm in a, in a romantic partnership and I am always focusing on the negative of what's going on with my partner, I'm always in a space of being critical. And I may be arguing with reality that I believe they should be this, but they're not. Right? And, and so we can see the wisdom in saying like, see the best in somebody else, right? Don't argue with reality, have acceptance of what is. You can see the \[00:22:00\] value in these things, right? Mm-hmm. But the problem is, and I wanna say in particular with, um, with those of us, I'm grouping myself in this, those of us who are either, um, highly empathetic and it's very easy for us to understand someone else's point of view and go to this toxic empathy. And also those of us, I'm grouping myself here, that have, that did not. Did not learn in our lives, um, or didn't experience in our lives, um, having our emotional needs attended to and cared for, which is a whole other topic we could go into, but this is a big part of the heart of my work. When you are someone like that, what this means is that. That we are trying to go to the positive place and override some of this negativity that exists there for us when actually it's really important for us to take a step back and get really curious about what's actually going on underneath this, \[00:23:00\] because my critical thoughts of that partner. Maybe not surface level now, maybe they are, sometimes there's merit to that. But could it be that there are ways that I'm actually not advocating for myself? Are there ways in this dynamic that, that are unhealthy in some way or another? So that's an example. That's what I mean, where it's not just about positive attitude or what you think you create. It's kind of like, actually, as human beings, our emotions and what we feel and the thoughts we have. Can, they can come from some di pretty deep places and, and that's why I like to train my coaches to really help their clients to understand themselves, understand what's going on and what is lacking for a human being so that. We can actually start to solve the problem from deep within, not just from surface level strategies that aren't gonna last. Kris: Yes. And I know the power of your work, because I know enough to know you do this for your clients first. You have to do it for yourself \[00:24:00\] and navigate and heal, and then you can become such a better coach for your clients, right? Yeah, Molly: yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing. It's like I. The reason, the reason I understand 90% of the things that I teach in the way that I do and the depth to which I understand them is because I have been granted these opportunities to learn these things myself. You know? Right. And I mean, and. I can, there are a couple of episodes we could reference, you know, here from my podcast around thought work being detrimental that I think would be really helpful to people. But you know, I definitely, years ago went into a relationship, um, really wanting to have such a strong mindset that I, it was like. I will create a great relationship because I will be, bring such a, a strong, positive mental attitude. And really what ended up happening for me within that is that, um. I, I really, I ended up in a negative place for myself emotionally, because \[00:25:00\] what it became is this wasn't a partnership, this wasn't a leaning in, but it was almost like I was always believing that whatever was going on was a problem for me to fix in my mind about the way I was thinking about things. Mm-hmm. And it was, it was pretty detrimental. And I've seen other people, um, as well go through this. This mental game when it comes to mindset work and, and it's, it's really problematic. I've seen people start to have panic attacks, breakdowns, and, and they're, they're so dysregulated. Mm-hmm. Because there's a lot of wisdom in our bodies. Mm-hmm. And when our nervous system is, is raising red flags, we need to pay attention. Kris: Right. Right. And not pave over them with no things that don't really feel true in your heart. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so powerful and so powerful. Molly: Yeah. It was, you know, it was, I think one of the things that, um, was interesting and difficult for \[00:26:00\] me is that I had been coaching. Mostly with mindset work prior to getting into that relationship, and I was very much a leader in the mindset coaching space, and as I experienced the downside of having that singular approach, um. I had to speak about it out loud because I, I was experiencing it and I saw other people, and then I really spoke up about it. And when I did that episode about how thought work and isolation can be detrimental, I cannot tell you how many dms I got from people saying, thank you for sharing this. I, you know, I started having anxiety, I was having panic attacks. I realized that I was, you know, allowing myself to be mistreated. So it's just, it's one of those things that, um. That, uh, it is, I guess I'll just say it's always worth speaking up when we learn these kind of lessons because there are always people that can benefit and it's nice to know you're not alone in that stuff. Totally, Kris: totally. So tell me about the four fundamentals \[00:27:00\] of lasting change. And when you talk about lasting change, what, what I believe you're talking about is. Creating lasting change for your clients as a coach is, is that. Is that it? Or fill me in? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Molly: So I teach about the four fundamentals of lasting change, which is essentially this holistic approach to coaching. So the four fundamentals, and, and then I'll tell you what, how I would define lasting change. Okay. So the four fundamentals are, number one, mind mastery. I've just talked about it just because I said, you know, things that to, to caution people. Mind mastery is incredibly important. Shifting our beliefs, shifting our thoughts, especially when done safely, which is what I teach. Right? So number one is mind mastery. Okay? Number two is emotional resiliency, which is really about, um, emotional self connection and, and understanding and integrating our own emotional world, which is a whole other topic that that's probably the, the. The, um, it's my favorite part of the work that I do. That's what I'll say. So, so \[00:28:00\] that's number two is the emotion piece. And then the fourth piece is understanding the nervous system. Because the nervous system is the backdrop of all of our thoughts and emotions and our nervous system is, uh, constantly taking in inputs all around us. And a lot of the behaviors that we do that we're not so happy that we do. Come from those instantaneous knee jerk reactions from an, some, from activation in our nervous system. Mm-hmm. So, uh, so number three is that nervous system awareness. And then the fourth one is having the type of action strategies that are actually going to work that we're actually going to follow through on. Um, so, and we can go into those, but when I'm talking about lasting change, certainly this applies to the behavior changes that we want to make, right? The goals that we want to meet. And, and at a deeper and broader level, what I would say is that. These are really these four fundamentals and understanding them are the ways that we support our clients in making these massive shifts in the trajectory of our life. That's really \[00:29:00\] what it's about. Um, and, and yes, this is what I teach my clients to do for their clients. But of course I'm doing it. We're doing it with them first and I'm doing it with me, so. Right, right. Yeah. Kris: Tell, tell us the story about what's happened for a client of yours after implementing the Four Fundamentals of Lasting Change. Oh my gosh. Molly: so as far as my master coach students, right? They come to me to be a better coach and they become better coaches. They come to me because they want to be confident and they are confident, and all of that happens. And yet, and that's great. That's fantastic, right? That's what we want. And yet the best part, my favorite part, and what is really the difference maker for them is that. These women say to me, I finally feel like I actually know who I am. For the first time in my life, I am finally able to feel like myself. I'm more relaxed. I'm able to be present with my spouse. I'm \[00:30:00\] able to be calm with my, you know, my kids. I mean, I'll give you just like a couple. A couple quick glimpses. Yeah. You know, one of my clients who, she has, um, five daughters, most of them grown and gone. She's an ex, she, she's an incredible woman. She's incredibly calm. She is. She, she's one of those people that you would think, oh, she has it all together and she's just raised these children beautifully and I would agree that she has. And she came to a call and she said that. She couldn't believe how powerful it was that now that she understands the emotional pieces of life, her own emotional world, how she was able to be with her daughter in emotional connection in a way that she never has been able to before, and the level of connection and intimacy and bonding, it's like. What greater gift can you have right than that? And, um, you know, it, it's, it's stories \[00:31:00\] like that and, and especially when I hear from a client. I remember this one client sent me an email and she said, she said, I am a better person in every area of my life. I'm a better partner. I'm a better friend. I'm more compassionate. I'm a better listener. I feel completely, completely different, right? And um. I mean, and the thing is, I know what they mean because I've experienced the same thing, which is why I teach this work. Kris: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. It's such a ripple effect, right? You do the work yourself. Yeah. Then you, then your coaches, your students do the work and then that, that trickles out to their clients. It's like, I'd love to. I'd love an infographic about this. Molly: Yeah, yeah. I know. I should have you do one for this. Yes. And, and you know, the other thing that is a really, and this kind of relates to what I saw in these women with the book, right? And that interview, is that the other thing is that when we do this deep work and, and we understand ourselves, and it, it's \[00:32:00\] almost like. I think most people, most people can relate to the sense of feeling as though there are kind of some holes or some gaps within us, or some cracks, right? There are ways that we feel, um, maybe a little bit of angst and some insecurity and just, just those kind of, that like little bit of a buzz beneath the surface, right? And it's, it's fine, it's normal. We don't need to completely eliminate that. But what I will say is that, that the work that I do with my clients, with this holistic approach. It is really one of experiencing that true sense of fulfillment where those holes and those angst and those insecurities are, are really filled with a strong sense of self. Mm-hmm. And peace and certainty in who they are and what they're capable of. And so what that means for these women as coaches is that they stand tall and they're an expert and they speak with authority \[00:33:00\] and they're able to speak, like advocate for themselves and set boundaries. And so, I mean these are, and these are the skills, like a powerful woman is. A site to behold. And when these women can cultivate that for themselves in their own life, and then they can speak as coaches and leaders to other people, it's mind blowing. Kris: Hmm. I just had a vision of you going into a high school environment and teaching this work to a class of 30 young. Women like what I know, right? What? What we all need to learn. Really it's, yeah, it's so beautiful. What beautiful work. And then when you get to that point, you are so fulfilled then. Then it's just a matter of choosing where you want to go. What do you want to create from this place, not from a place of lack or fear or compensation? What do I really want to create in my life? And then go after it. Molly: And, and this work is, it's important and I know it can feel really messy. \[00:34:00\] I mean, and as, as Kris is here interviewing me, we're in this mastermind, and so you've seen right, the, the backend and what it looks like as we're, as, as I right personally, have continued to build this sense of self. And so, um. Having said all of that, if all the people listening and feeling doubt and fear, there's uh, there's a lot of potential for you to build yourself up because, just because it's a little messy and just because we may feel a little rickety sometimes, uh, it's not an indication of what's possible. Kris: Yeah. Let's look under the hood of your business. Okay. So you started out, I, I didn't know you at this point in time, but you started out in partnership with your sister, right? You were coaching partnership, is that right? Molly: So I started out on my own actually. Okay. So I had my own business. I was coaching moms. That was when I wrote my book, the Happy Mom Mindset. So I had my own business, but then I did go into a partnership business with my sister. Mm-hmm. Okay. Kris: Got it. Yeah. And so you navigated that and then you're now on your own again. \[00:35:00\] Yeah. And tell me what's going on because anytime I'm online, social, email, whatever you are. Present and you're there and you're al, you're always showing up with such wisdom and such a heart to help, and you bring such massive value to everyone who knows you, whether they're paying clients or not paying clients, and it's just. Inspiring for me to witness the way that you do your work. And so I'd love to kind of just look under the hood with like, all my listeners are business owners, and what is your formula? Do you have one? Do you have a rhythm? Do you have a strategy or are you totally winging it like most of us are? Molly: Well, it makes me really happy to hear you say that about. You know, about what you experience as far as what I share online? Um, because probably like everyone else, I often wonder Right. Is this like, is this the \[00:36:00\] way, is this too much? Is this too little? But here's what I will say, and, and I really do believe this is. The key to us bringing our best and succeeding in a business that is a heartfelt business, and that is that from day one, I have been very committed to, I would say two main things. So one is my personal commitment to say. I am going to build a business. This was right back then. I am going to build a business that is going to support me and my kids well. And what this means is that I am going to be present and available for my kids as a single mom with three kids, I am going to be there for them. And what this means is that my kids are not going to be fraught with financial worry. And what this also means is that I am going to have a good quality of life for me as a human being. Hmm. And that commitment to having a business that \[00:37:00\] builds the life I want, that aligns with my values has always been there and present for me. And that is a powerful force when you have something that you're committed to that aligns with your deepest values. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So there's that. The other piece is really, I just, and I feel, and that's always a driver that's never gone anywhere, but I feel, especially now more than ever, this has really grown and evolved and that is that I am so committed. To continuing to lean in to what I feel called to do in my business and what I feel called to share. And what that means for me is that sometimes I'm pushing the limits of my own comfort zone. Sometimes it means I'm saying, you know what? I need to be more bold. I need to say more because I feel called to do it. And so, you know, I, I wish I could give you a good strategy with metrics. And certainly there are things behind the scenes with that. But genuinely, I feel my business for me is a matter of my heart and my desire to, um, \[00:38:00\] to not just, um, share something good, but to really be able to offer to my clients what they are really needing to feel. Whole and connected and powerful in their lives. And I mean, that's the drive behind it. So I'm like, I, I'll keep trying everything up and down, like left and right. Um, as long as I feel called to do it and I'm impacting people, I'm gonna keep doing it. Kris: Got it. Yeah. Beautiful inspiration, right? Yeah. Um, and Clickup, I'm kidding. Molly: Oh gosh, no, no. That we've had quite the jokes about that behind the scenes because I have been, I have been, well, I have been simplifying the back end of my business and, uh, and. Clickup was, uh, was quite a thorn in my side for a while, and I am glad to say that I don't get into Clickup anymore. You, Kris: um, so as we wrap up here today, um, tell us a little bit about your membership. How can my listeners work with you? How can we buy the book? Like we, we want more of you, so fill us in. Yeah. Okay. Molly: Okay. So. Um, so where should we start? So the book Easy, right? It's on Amazon. She rises, you can Google. She rises, Molly Claire, it'll pop up. It's got this beautiful green cover with the mm-hmm. The moon rising, um, behind the mountains. So that's where you can find that and it'll be in the show notes and also. Um, the best thing to remember is molly claire.com because if people go to molly claire.com, there's a link for the book there and, and everything else I'm offering, including my podcast. So, so there's that. Um, I do have a podcast. It's called Life Mastered and it is, it's really, uh, talking about. What, uh, what a life well lived is and, and how do we lean in to what life has to offer us and learn from it. Um, so as far as \[00:40:00\] like resources that people can check out, um, there's all of those. But I would love to tell you about the membership. Molly: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, um. You are. So the life mastered the membership is a brand new offering that is, has really combined, you know, the last decade of my work with doing this steep coaching work to where it is a place. Where people can come and be a part of a community of powerful women and have the support you need. This is, especially for women who are high responsibility women. They are holding everything together. They are ambitious, they are driven, and, and they really need a little bit of help and support. They need to reconnect with themselves. They need balance. And so that is, that's what the membership is all about. And you can find more details on molly claire.com. Um, for the, for the membership. And Kris: is the membership for coaches only or coaches and leaders or all kinds of high responsibility women? Molly: Yeah, so good question. So, and then I can say more about my master coach train. So master coach training that I've been talking \[00:41:00\] about is for coaches. But yeah, life mastered the membership. It is not exclusive to coaches. This is truly a place for what I refer to as high responsibility women, ambitious souls. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, and so if you are listening to this and you're someone who is. Really committed to your own growth, your own evolution, and you want to have really great, powerful support and, and learn your own mind mastery, emotional resiliency and, and these things that I teach my coaches to work with. That's really a chance for you to work directly with me. Mm-hmm. So that I can help you with that in your life. Kris: Beautiful. All right. Everybody, go check it out. It'll be worth it. You're gonna love it. You, everybody wants more of Molly, so thank you. Thank you for being here today. What wisdom that you shared with us. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales \[00:42:00\] tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-soundbite-strategy-peace-framework-coaches ### Title: StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy: The Magic Words That Sell Your Coaching on Repeat ### Page ID: 8375108 ### Content: StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy: The Magic Words That Sell Your Coaching on Repeat Most coaches I talk to are exhausted from explaining what they do. They're creating content constantly, posting tips everywhere, and still... people don't really get it. Here's what I've learned: **You don't need more content. You need five magic soundbites.** Think about Nike. Three words. That's it. "Just Do It." That's the power of a good soundbite. And in this week's podcast episode, I'm showing you exactly how to build five of them for your coaching business using the **StoryBrand PEACE Framework.** ✅ Why your brain remembers soundbites (not paragraphs) and how to use this to attract dream clients ✅ The exact 5-step formula I use with every client to create crystal-clear messaging ✅ How to stop rambling and start sounding like a brand people trust I promise you, once you nail these five phrases, everything changes. Your discovery calls get easier. Your website makes sense. People start referring you because they can finally explain what you do. StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy: The Magic Words That Sell Your Coaching on Repeat CTC Ep. 54 | StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy: The Magic Words That Sell Your Coaching on Repeat Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Speaker: Hey friend. Today we're talking about something that can change your coaching business faster than anything else can.Most coaches think they need more content, more posts, more emails, more tips. But what you actually need is five short sound bites that capture attention, and they make people want to know more about your coaching. Think about it. Every billion dollar brand has them, and they say the same handful of phrases over and over and over until customers can repeat them back. Nike has three words. Can you guess what those are? They're so simple. Your brain can't forget them. Just do it. And today I'm gonna show you how to build that same kind of clarity for your coaching business. It's called the StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy using the \[00:01:00\] acronym piece, and once you get it, you're never gonna talk about your business the same way again. Let's dive in. So here's the big idea. Most coaches overexplain what they do. They talk about frameworks and strategies and modules and mindset work and breakthroughs and all the things. But the brain doesn't remember long sentences. It remembers short. Soundbites, a good soundbite grabs attention. It's easy to repeat, it's very easy to understand, and it speaks directly to a problem your client already feels. When you use those same five soundbites over and over on your website and your emails, on your discovery calls, you really start to sound like a brand that people trust, And that's the whole goal of the Peace framework, to become trustworthy, to become known, and to be top of mind when somebody has the problem that you solve. it gives you five tiny sentences that tell a complete story, and we're gonna walk through examples of each of them. Today we're gonna build these soundbites the way Donald Miller teaches them. Short, punchy, one breath. \[00:02:00\] We've got peace as the acronym remember, and the P stands for problem. This is a question your ideal clients are already asking themselves. It should get an immediate yes, that's me. So for a financial coach, it might sound like, "have you ever worried about money?" That's it. Paragraph. Nothing lengthy, just one line that instantly pulls them in. Now, if someone said, what do you do? And I said, I'm a financial coach, they'd probably be like, huh, okay, well let's go. Um, you want another drink? But if, if you said, what do you do? And I said, well, have you ever worried about money? Then you'd have me, I, who hasn't worried about money, right? So, um, that's the power of starting with the problem, then we move into, e, e stands for EMPATHY. It shows them that you care, and this is not your whole backstory, it's just one sentence that makes them feel understood. I know how stressful that feels. That is powerful. It's so simple. \[00:03:00\] It's not detailed. It just creates an instant connection and instant trust. The empathy of this, "I know how stressful that feels." Okay, that's, that's the second soundbite. That's EMPATHY. Then the third one is a for ANSWER. So imagine your hero, right? Your hero is your client, and they are stuck in a hole. They have a problem, they're in a hole, and they don't know how to get out of it. So the answer is really you peering down into that hole, number one. You're telling them, I get it. I understand. And then the A, the answer is you throwing a rope down into that hole. What is the answer to that problem? "*Book a Money Clarity Session*". That's your call to action. You're telling them this is the way to solve that problem. Stop there. Don't explain it. Don't give details. Just use that soundbite. It's your only job to introduce the rope. Then we move into C. Remember, we're in the the \[00:04:00\] piece framework. P-E-A-C C stands for CHANGE. This is the transformation that you're gonna help them achieve,And for many people, this ends up being their tagline. These soundbites become so captivating and so simple and so powerful and clear that once you create them, it'll become clear which one might be a good candidate for your, your company tagline. So, so. CHANGE. What is the transformation you help them achieve? Short identity based, we really wanna get into the aspirational identity here. So what is a compliment that they'd like to receive? And if I was the financial coach, I would say "*I help you get good with money.*" That's your controlling idea. That is the transformation and the change that you provide. You help people get good with money, and then we end with. E, the end result. So E, the END RESULT paints the after picture of their life. what does their life look like after they've worked with you? Again, one \[00:05:00\] line. Keep it simple. Keep it visual "*So you never have to worry about money again*.". That is it. You've now told a complete. Story in under 15 seconds. Okay, let's do a quick review of all five of these soundbites so you can really see how they work together and tell a full and complete story when they're all together. The beautiful thing about these soundbites is that you take them and you sprinkle them into your messaging literally everywhere on your website and your social posts and your spoken language online. so they're really useful just to infuse into all your messaging. So first we've got the PROBLEM. "*Have you ever worried about money?*" That's the problem you're pulling me in. And then the EMPATHY, "*I know how stressful that feels*." And then the ANSWER "*Book a Money Clarity Session with me*", and then the CHANGE, "*I help you get good with money*" and then the END RESULT, "S*o you never have to worry about money again*." And that is the whole story. It's simple, it's clear, \[00:06:00\] it's powerful, and most importantly, it captures attention. Remember that house metaphor that we talked about, Those five steps that go up to a front porch, these soundbites are those, each of those steps. So you're inviting people, you're getting their attention, and you're inviting them up the stairway to your front porch. Once they get to the, the front porch, then you can enlighten them with a lot more information and educate them, build more trust and connection, and then you can invite them through your front door, which is to become a, a paying client.So with the soundbites I just shared with you, you can say them at a coffee shop, you can say them. When somebody asks, what do you do? You can put 'em on your Instagram bio. You can open every single discovery call with it and this is really what most coaches are missing, a handful of repeatable soundbites that makes their message totally unforgettable. Let me tell you what happens when you start using soundbites like this. People stop saying, "*oh, that's nice.* *You're a coach*." And they start saying, "*wait,* \[00:07:00\] *hold on. Tell me more.*" You instantly look clear, smarter, more helpful. And if they are not your ideal client, they know somebody who is. And here's something really important. These soundbites are not meant to explain everything you do. They're meant to peak curiosity, to get attention, to get people engaged with you. That is it. All the details come later. The details come once they're on your front porch. We're just trying to. Lure them up those steps and once they're on the porch, once they're on your call, once they're inside your funnel, you can, you can enlighten them during that phase, but your job right now is just to get them to take that first step. Once you create your soundbites, you're gonna use them everywhere.Any place you normally ramble, drop in a soundbite instead, and your message will become clearer overnight. Now what's the catch? What's the hard part? The hardest part of this whole strategy is not creating the soundbites. It's using them over and over again until you almost get sick of \[00:08:00\] hearing yourself say them. The other thing that can be hard about these soundbites is trying to, *not* say more, right? Trying to make them very short and concise and not add words to your sound bites. Keep them simple. Keep them short. One breath and start to really get them in your bones, so you say them without even having to think about them. So repetition builds, trust, repetition builds, brands, and repetition builds referral. Repeat, repeat, repeat. And when people start repeating your soundbites back to you, that's when you know you have nailed it. Alright, let's bring this home. Most coaches don't need more content. You need five magic soundbites that sell your coaching on repeat. You've got the PROBLEM. *Have you ever worried about money?* You've got EMPATHY. *I know how stressful that is*. You've got the ANSWER. *Schedule a money clarity session with me*. You've got the CHANGE. *I help you get good with money* and then you've got the END RESULT, *so you never have to worry about money again*. \[00:09:00\] If you want help building your own soundbite strategy. Book a Money Making Messaging Call with me. We'll get on a call. We'll look at the current story that you're telling, and we'll talk through how to apply this StoryBrand strategy to your business. Go to red door stories.com. That's Red Door stories, stories.com, and book a call with me And even if we don't work together, please build your five sound bites. Use them everywhere and watch what happens. Because the right words, use the right way, can really change everything. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-soundbite-strategy-in-10-minutes ### Title: StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy in 10 Minutes ### Page ID: 8402422 ### Content: Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/soundbite-strategy-thank-you ### Title: Soundbite Strategy Thank You Page ### Page ID: 8412353 ### Content: **Communicate Your Value. Earn More with Less Effort. Simplify Your Marketing** P.S. In order for you to feel completely supported... as you learn the StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy , **I'll be following up via email over the next few days.** This is the most important work you can do for your business, and it's powerfully simple. Follow along on the 'gram for bonus content and simple ways to keep upleveling your business. ? Remember to hit ***follow***, then **tap the BELL** next to my name at the top of the screen and turn on notifications. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/sign-high-ticket-clients-consistently ### Title: How To Sign High Ticket Clients Consistently With Fope “Fopsy” Nkwocha ### Page ID: 8421218 ### Content: How To Sign High Ticket Clients Consistently With Fope “Fopsy” Nkwocha A lot of brilliant coaches and service providers are busy all day but not actually growing their business. But they’re not focusing on the money-making priorities that bring in clients consistently. That’s why my conversation with **Fope “Fopsy” Nkwocha** on this week’s From Click to Client Podcast was so powerful. Fopsy helps service providers bridge the execution gap, and she said something that stopped me in my tracks: ***“You don’t need more strategy. You need more execution.”*** ✅ How to tell the difference between being productive and moving the needle ✅ The weekly habits that actually lead to high-ticket clients ✅ The questions that make sales calls easier and more effective One of my favorite moments was hearing how Fopsy transformed her close rate by asking better, more intentional questions. Not harder ones. Better ones. If you’ve been working hard but not seeing the results you want, this conversation will feel like a breath of fresh air. How To Sign High Ticket Clients Consistently With Fope “Fopsy” Nkwocha CTC Ep. 55 | How To Sign High Ticket Clients Consistently With Fope “Fopsy” Nkwocha Speaker: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Fopsy, welcome to the podcast today. It is such a delight to have you here and I'm excited to dive into your brilliance and hear what you have to share. So, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do. It's been a long, long time coming, so thank you for having me. Hi everyone listening. I am Fope, AKA Fopsy. I'm a business coach who primarily works with service providers and their sales, so I work with coaches, consultants, creators, who already know what to do, but they struggle to do it consistently. Most of my clients have great offers and real talent, but they're stuck in the. What I like to call the execution gap. They're busy but not necessarily moving the needle in their business. They're posting online, tweaking their websites a little bit, but like income is up \[00:01:00\] and down. And so what I do with my clients is to help them simplify their business and focus on what I like to call money making priorities. So their offer, their leads, their sales process, their mindsets, and their execution habits, which is really. Um, how, what you do every single day that adds up. Um, I do this primarily within a 12 week container, and we turn the overwhelm into consistent action that helps you sign at least five new high ticket care clients during that time. So the heart of my work really is helping brilliant service providers finally get paid and get paid consistently for what they're already great at by building the focus, confidence and systems to do it. And before all this work, I used to work in marketing for larger corporations. I did Google, I worked as startups. And um, my story into entrepreneurship is, was one born through layoffs? Um, but I'm back to work now and still doing this 'cause I still believe that one source of income is too close to zero. But that's a story for another day. But anyways, it's lovely to be here Did I hear you say that you guarantee that they're gonna sign five clients before that \[00:02:00\] 12 week container ends? Speaker 2: That's how I work together to help you sign five new high to care clients if you, if you have the work together essentially. And if you don't, we'll do it again for another 12 weeks and before you leave me, you'll get a return on your investment with at least five new high to care clients. Speaker: That is so fantastic. I love that. I love that. Thank you. I think a lot of, um. I mean, there's so many variables when it comes to marketing that I think, uh, it's hard to make a guarantee like that. And I think it really just says a lot about the, the quality of the work that you do, and to your point, focusing on those money making activities. So tell me more about that. Like, I, I really resonate with what you're, what you shared around. As entrepreneurs, we can be busy all the time, but are we actually working on the things that are gonna move the needle for our business? 'cause sometimes we avoid those things or those things get pushed lower on the list and we end up, you know, being productive, but not necessarily \[00:03:00\] productive with the things that really need our attention. Speaker 2: Okay, so when I talk about moneymaking priorities, I think it's a lot about helping. Service providers see that you likely don't need more strategy, you need more execution. So most service providers have a general sense of direction of like, okay, this is what my business is doing. They know they need more clients. They feel like they, they need to get their offers in front of more people. But you know these things. But are you doing them and are you doing them consistently? Because until you start doing them, you don't have your own data on like, this is what I did. That worked, this is what I should do more of. I was listening to one of your podcasts, Kris, and you talked about how you changed your button from money making. So from to money making messaging call. Yes. I can't remember what it was before. Yeah. It was a, Speaker: a clarity from a clarity call to a money making messaging call. Yeah. That's not stuff you read in a book. You just knew because you did it and you saw results on this. And I, I believe that most of us are in reading, in listening to podcasts, even this one, we are trying to find the best practices, but like it's best practices for them. Or best practices as in get the \[00:04:00\] principle from there, but don't necessarily try to fit yourself into that mode per se. So if you don't get your own data by executing, if you don't put in, put your offer in front of more people, you don't know if it's an offer that's a problem, or if it's that you don't have enough leads. And so I'd rather you in our work together, get you to. Make more people, make more offers. Come back to me with the data you've gotten or not, or the results you've not gotten, and then we know what to, what to change based on that as opposed to you just buying a new course, doing a new thing, which is kind of a big thing for service providers. We love to learn, and I think the reason we love to learn is because learning simulates. Motion. It feels like we're moving, but like you're not really moving forward if you're just observing that information until you've applied it and you've seen the results or lack thereof, you don't really know what is working. So when making priorities looks like every single week, we, um, well first of all, I built this based on the principles of the 12 week year. I read that book and I learned a lot about like lead indicators and lagging indicators and clients, which is the core thing my people want. I lag indicator because it's like weight loss, for example, you wanna lose 20 pounds. 20 pounds is what happens after you've consistently done the eating right, the moving, the sleeping more. \[00:05:00\] All those things that are boring but needed to do. So you keep thinking, I need to lose 20 pounds. I'm gonna measure this if I lost 20 pounds. And like, you're not doing those things or you're not excited about those things. Or measuring how much or how well those things you're doing. So in the world of getting clients, it's thinking. Have, I know my offer done, how many leads am I getting? And leads is not just generating content, like, um, leads come from outreach content and ads like, so essentially things that have you. Missing more people, making more friends, they're uncomfortable. I think you talked about that a little bit before. They're uncomfortable because it feels like, okay, what if they say no? Then that's data and you know that that's not working. So there's different pieces. If you're launching, it looks like getting people to come to your event. If you are, um, getting people coming to your wall, but you're not closing, that means your money, making priorities, getting better at sales calls so that you can close them. And like, so it depends on who I'm working with, but I, but generally they fall into. Your offer, your leads, your sales process, your mindset, and your weekly execution habits. And then if you've grown and you have a team, it's also around your team and what you're doing or not doing to help your business make money. Speaker: Yeah. Mm. There there's so many components to it, and I think a lot of it is, like you said, mindset and \[00:06:00\] the psychology behind it, and so often. As business owners and service providers, we create something. And I think as entrepreneurs we like to create. We like to feel that motion, and sometimes we jump ship on a great idea because we haven't put in an. In front of enough people to get the data and we're like, it's very much like that. That whole, like if you build it, they will come, you know, with, with a website. I think people feel like that a lot or with an offer if I design this offer, yeah. You know, people will come, but. There is, um, there, there, the, one of the most important things that you can do is that outreach. Like how can you get this in front of enough people so then you can get the data that you need to decide? Is it working, is it not? What about it is working? What about it isn't working? And really refining and tweak and it takes. A lot of patience and, and, and many times a lot of discomfort. Um, because \[00:07:00\] if you don't put it in front of people, um. You can make this assumption that okay, it's not working, but in a way that's less, uh, that's more comfortable, right? That keeps you in kind of outside of visibility and it keeps you. Kind of head down working. Yeah. Instead of really getting out there and becoming visible and really making the difference that, you know, and that we all wanna make. Right. Speaker 2: Yeah. Two things you said that I kinda wanna like pig piggyback off and I, I, I'll note then to the first was that we like to create things as service providers. And I guess in a bit of a vulnerable moment this year, one of the things I did was I created a. New offer. I called it done in 90. I just created it because I had been guessing the same objection on my sales calls about money. And I just thought, okay, I need something smaller to sell to people. But that's like, that was my interpretation of that piece of data. The real thing was that I needed to get better at answering that question of like, of like, why is this worth what it's worth? And my coach had told me, you need more leads. You need to like get, get in the practice of doing this. You need to also work on your sales calls. I just, I didn't believe it \[00:08:00\] or I just thought, it's something else. It must be the offer. And so I did that and eventually I, I came to my, I guess I came to my senses because one person bought and I was like, actually, I don't want to deliver this. So I, I in refunded them and I thought, okay, the thing I really wanna sell at the price I wanna sell is my 1 0 1 coaching. So let me go figure out what's wrong here. I did finally go get more leads. I watched hours and hours of like my own sales calls and got better at it. So stopped freezing at the like question of like, okay, why does it cost this much? How long? It's like all of that. And also just learned how to do it better. And last month I had a hundred percent close, close cohort after months of like working on it. So like it's, it's also just the learning of I wasted time. Like I spent the better parts of this year believing it was my offer and just like not taking the coaching I was getting. Right. So it's not that like. It's not just like beginners or whatever, it's still something you have to watch for, to be like, okay, am I creating stuff in an echo chamber where it's just me thinking about it? Or I think I've also heard, heard you say that like most of us are good at doing these things for other people, not so much ourselves, and like, so get the help you need. And take the advice essentially. Yeah. So that that was the \[00:09:00\] best thing. Yeah, Speaker: it really does. I talk a lot about that bottle effect, which is really, as self-employed people, we are inside the bottle trying to read the label. That can only be read from outside the label, and that's why you need a coach or a mentor to come in and read your label for you with a fresh eyes, fresh perspective. And no one is immune from this. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you're in the industry, it doesn't matter if you've been doing this. Yeah. A long time. We all need our own coaches and mentors Absolutely. To come in and give us guidance. So I think the million dollar question here is, well, couple things. I wanna dive into sales calls 'cause that can often be a, a weak link. I had a conversation with a client this morning that. You know, she has been refining, tweaking, and getting her page really dialed in, getting her offer dialed in, getting her call to action dialed in, and sure enough, she is getting people signing up for calls. Speaker: And then she shared with me that she is not. Confident in how she is navigating these sales calls \[00:10:00\] and she's getting ghosted essentially. She's not converting any of those sales calls, and within my offer and program, I have sales call training. I have gone through my own self sales call training with one of the best. In the industry she is in, um, in Australia. And she worked with me for week after week analyzing my transcripts and refining and tweaking my calls. And I kept, I kept working it and learning just like you did, you know, analyzing those calls and figuring out where is the weak link. 'cause I don't care if your offer is gold. Yeah. Or if you're. Website is gold. If you can't get on the call and bring those potential clients and turn them into clients, then it doesn't matter how good everything else is. Speaker 2: It's also just heart breaking. 'cause you spend all that time. Yes. And money getting someone to the call, like Yes. Yeah. So tell me, what did you learn from analyzing your own sales calls? Speaker 2: Okay, \[00:11:00\] so I have to shout out my own co-chair, Dale Sharon. She's excellent, great sales coach. Um, she has a simple process that works through triage treatment plan. Tell the author it's a three step process, but also doesn't, doesn't force you to do a script which can have you. Speaker 2: Um, but what I learned from my sales calls was I was talking too much. Speaker 2: Yeah. I was talking too much. My, your job on the sales call is to ask questions and learn from the person what they need and. I was just like, I think I was getting too much into coach mode. Yeah. Like that as though it was a coaching call, and it's not a coaching call because it's a sales relationship at that point, not a coaching relationship. So I learned to ask better questions that weren't just open-ended for the sake of asking questions, but questions that helped me to understand the urgency of this for them. Questions that help me to understand the, the, their feelings around the problem and it not being solved or it being solved, and. What would like the stakes, essentially, what would be different or better or worse if they were to act on this in, um, \[00:12:00\] in the next like three months, six months? Like just around like what's urgent now? Why is it important and what, what is at stake if nothing changes, like those kinds of questions. And so previously I was asking questions, but I just asked questions because, you know, I know to ask questions, so I didn't think of what, what am I actually looking for with my questions? So the questions were just all over the place. So again, you don't know this in the beginning. And then, um, also to. Tie back, whatever. 'cause my offer is one-on-one and it's all customized. Even when it's not one-on-one. You should be able to talk about the benefit of your offer in a way that's related to what you've heard from the person. Not just like, I'm like, it has, I'm doing all these emotions that I have to explain 'cause this is the podcast. Okay. So if someone is telling you that they want a, they want, okay, give me an example from your world. What's what? What do people want when they come to get a website done? Speaker: Oh, I mean, they want it to do this selling for them. They want it, they want the website to get them more clients. They've got, they wanna become more profitable, they wanna make more money. They want to stop the \[00:13:00\] grind of like posting every day, and they just want their marketing tools to work for them on auto, on autopilot so they can focus more on the work that they love to do. Speaker 2: So if you've heard all of that working on autopilot, doing the, taking out the grind, and you're not putting those into what the result of your offer would be, you're missing out. If you're saying more like, I'm gonna get you a website, it'll be beautiful. It will tell your story. In fact, they'll use StoryBrand Principles, principles. They said nothing about those. They might not even care the principles. Just tell them what they said they want. It would tell it, it would. I, I'm gonna work on your website in such a way that. People, the land will instantly know what you're selling and they're going to want to buy it would, and that means that instead of spending hours grinding on social media, once, once people come to your, to your website, they know exactly what you're, what you're selling and how it benefits them. And that saves you so much time. So you don't have, you don't need to spend it grinding like you're mirroring back their words to them. I was missing all of that. Speaker 2: And then the final part was. I, I wasn't good at like digging for more questions if I had an objection. I just kinda like thought, okay, well. \[00:14:00\] I guess that's the end of like, okay, if they book this call with me. I also have a transparent process where when you book a call, you know my prices, you know, the payment plan, like it's all there. So like it's not a shock. So you book this call knowing all of that, meaning you really wanted to work with me, so I'm doing you a disservice to not answer the questions that you have about, um, my offer. And I've also learned that objections are just questions. They just want answers. So like that was all of it. There was so much there. Um, and I also, now I'm not, I'm not too proud. Every time I have a sales call, I go re relearn. Like, I just go refresh my learning so I don't feel like so, so much time is fast and I'm excited about them now. I don't like feel that, oh my God is, is gonna happen or not. So because, and I realize that, okay, this is a good one. It's a skill problem. It's not a youth thing, it's just a skill that you haven't mastered yet. If it's lead generation, if it's sales calls, if it's even client delivery to an extent. So it doesn't feel heavy. You just need to build the skill. You need to go figure out people that have learned the skill well and learn from them, and at some point it will feel like driving. You don't have to like struggle so much to drive anymore once you figure it out because you just do it. So yeah. Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you on, on the script thing. What I do is what I, I call it a flow, right? \[00:15:00\] It's a sequence of like the way the call should flow, and what I'm hearing from you is that you begin to position yourself as the guide instead of the hero, right? You took charge and every question had purpose, and so like when I do my calls. First we take the time to connect and we uncover like what are they struggling with? And I take notes on that. And then of course we talk about what do they ultimately want? Like do they really want more profits or do they really just want more free time? Do they actually wanna work less? I mean, what do they really want? Yeah. And then all I do is echo that back to them. I say, here's what I hear you, here's what I hear you telling me. So you, and then I list their problem and I share like their hopes and dreams. Yes. And. It felt kind of funky the first time I did that. 'cause I thought, is this gonna sound weird? But let me tell you, time and time again, I have clients saying, wow, after that call, I really feel like you heard me. Like you really listened to me. This was not, nobody wants to get on a sales call and get sold \[00:16:00\] to. They want to feel a connection and they want you to hear, listen, and understand them. And. I changed my mindset around this, um, in two ways. Number one, I look at the call as. I'm just here to help you make the right decision for you. And if I, if we get to a no and it's a no for you, yeah, that's a win for me. 'cause I've helped you come to a, a decision one way or the other. If it, if it ends up being a good fit and it's a yes. Wonderful. That's great. Then we'll move on to the next step. But one thing I was doing a lot in, in the earlier days, um, prior to working with this coach was I would. They would be onboard. Yeah. I totally am interested. I think this would be great. And I would say, okay, um, I'm gonna shoot you an email, uh, later today with a link where you can pay. And then I would never hear from them again. And so she goes, she watched me do this on these transcripts. And she goes, um, why are you not taking payment on the call? Speaker: like, well. \[00:17:00\] That would be awkward and forward. And she's like, no, if they wanna work with you, like how are you gonna get them the results that they're looking for? And you know you can get them, how are they gonna get that if they don't engage with you and work with you? And I was like. Yeah, And so then I would say, okay, great. It, this is, this is the, in the investment. Um, I'll go ahead and take payment right here. And it completely shifted my close rate because. People were ready. They also like appreciated that they didn't have to figure out the next step alone that I I've got them. Not only, you know, do you not have to click on a link and fill in in for your information? I'm gonna actually do it for you, which is the type of experience I want my clients to have. From the minute they make the investment to the minute our engagement is complete and it, it's all representative of what it's gonna be like to work with you. Speaker 2: and I think a couple patterns, you're like \[00:18:00\] similar threads in my world as well, is the belief that I can help you. Because if you don't believe that, you might be nervous to echo their words back to them. And echoing is really important because it's literally, if you change it, if you're too expert speaky, if you're like trying to polish it, you're going to lose them a little bit. 'cause it's they, they want to hear that you can solve my exact problem. So like very important. But yeah, the mindset piece about believing that you really can help this person in front of you. Like, either you know what to do or you can workshop it. It's like really important to hold. Um, and in similar vein, I don't take permit on the call, but I give a deadline. I ask for decisions within 48 hours. So that also means that I'm not waiting forever. Like I just know. And I tell them that upfront on the call so they know. I also ask them which option they're looking to go with, and I can, I think now I, I began to sense. Like, there's also something called a false Yes. People like that. And maybe that's something that your world might, um, like your approach might deal with where someone might say yes on the call and then like change their minds or whatever. And in, in that case, honestly. Like you said, right? I feel sufficient in myself. Like I'm grateful that I like my needs are met all is well. They might come back or they might even send people your way. I've had people \[00:19:00\] who have said no, but then they sent three people my way. I'm like, Speaker 2: thank you. So something was good about the experience enough to, to come back. So it's all there. Speaker: Yeah. I thought you brought up a really good point about like, let's reframe objections to just questions that people have. One of the things that I do. Toward the end of the call, once I've kind of walked them through how I work with my clients, I have one offer. Uh, anytime I try and make a second offer, I like remove it because one offer is all I want. Yeah. Right now. Um, and it, it helps keep my business simple. So after I've walked them through my offer, I asked them, okay, on a scale of one to 10. How much does this really resonate with you? Like are you at a. Two or one being, Nope, this is not what I need. 10 being yes, no brainer. This is like exactly what, what I need. So I let them like decide that themselves. Um, and then if they're an eight yeah. Or a nine, or they're a five, whatever they are, um, I say, okay, tell \[00:20:00\] me what's keeping you from being at a 10. Speaker: And then that allows me to uncover those objections. And if they're legitimate objections, then, you know, I, we talk through it. Um, but if there are objections that, um, can be overcome essentially, like in an on honest and ethical way. Speaker: Um, you know, if somebody doesn't have the money to invest Speaker: That's legitimate. Like, I'm not gonna. You gonna try and change someone's mind around that. But if it's, um, maybe it's something like, and this is, I hear this a lot, you know, I've been burned before I, I joined a program or I bought something. Oh. Imagine how Speaker 2: it's like for coaches. I hear it a lot too. And I, I get it. I mean, it's a leg. It's legitimate. Yeah. And it's like a, a concern might be. I am worried that I'm not gonna get enough one-on-one attention, you know? Mm-hmm. And then I, then I get to reassure them, oh, no, no, no. Like, oh, one-on-one. You so much, so much one-on-one attention. Like, that's why I love the work that I do. We get, we get to dive in deep. Yeah. So, okay. \[00:21:00\] So one of the things that you promise is that your clients are gonna get five high ticket clients or sales. By the end of this 12 weeks. So I wanna dive into like that's the million dollar question. How do people get more clients in an effective, efficient way? Speaker 2: So great question. Um, if it's our very f, if it's our very first time ever selling, the first goal actually is to get a sale, not five clients, if you've never sold anything before. So create an offer and get a sale. And at that, and that's, so our sales score, uh, process creates the plan for the next four weeks. And you agree to that. So in that case, it's a, so if you've sold before. We, the, the first thing we do is also to look into how you sold before, because I find that for most people, we are not studying our own data enough so that we are not repeating our own successes or documenting them, so we don't even know what we did well and we're surprised at the results. So that helps a lot because it uncovers. Patterns where you are, areas where you're strong and should be doubling down on. So one of \[00:22:00\] my, um, clients, there were, there were three co-founders, pharmacy mentors, and their thing was that they were, they were helping people pass their, like Canadian licensing exams for pharmacy exams. And so when they came to me, they had been doing it in, um, a group, a group format, like having people join their, their group very while and they, they said they wanted to launch to the public and they felt like they needed to scrap everything. Like, and just like find a new process, you know, be ready and marketing properly, build structure. And I'm like, why are we gonna do that? You have something that's working, you have a process of getting referrals, and then you have a webinar where you tell your story some more and you have such high engagement. I was gonna warn you that I had a doorbell coming up where I have to let my n nieces and nephew in. Speaker: Oh, it's so good. Oh, I, I, I can edit, so no worries. I'm gonna do a little, one, one second. I'll start Speaker 2: this through. I don't even know what I just said, but One second. Speaker: You're on mute. There you go. All right, welcome. Speaker 2: All right. So, oh, I dunno what I said last time. Oh, yours. Speaker 2: you've got good engagements. Why reinvent the wheel? So step during that meant that we, we could beat on it instead of just waiting for referrals from, um. From people that they knew. We started to talk about what it did on LinkedIn and that attracted even more people. But the process of how we go from how I get to guarantee the offer, um, five clients essentially is we refine their money making offer. So for them, they were saying that they help people pass their exams. They were saying that they helped pharmacists, but then in digging through in their own experience and people, they were attracting, they were working with internationally trained pharmacists. That's a more specific who. Mm-hmm. And that also ties into why it was so important for them. You're moving to a whole new country. If you don't get relicensed, you can work. There's a number of, there's a limit to how many times you can retake the exams or you forfeit your profession. Like the stakes are just so much higher. So in, I'm also a huge fan of StoryBrand, by the way, and I use it in my work, so. \[00:24:00\] In walking through all of that, we got to help them name a border promise of pass your PBC exam on the first track. That just resonated so much more because wow, like this, it's a whole different world. And then it wasn't just to everybody anymore, it was to internationally trained pharmacists so they could talk about the unique struggles of immigrating to a whole new country of like your family and all of that. That was the first part with the offer and then with leads, we said, okay, we know that. Referrals are great. We're gonna keep that and we're gonna lay our own content on top of that. So the stuff that you're already doing inside of these groups, you're going to talk about it publicly because it's the proof you have that you haven't really used already. So it's not really new stuff, it's just bringing it out of you. So we did that and we got them. To use link to funnel people into a webinar, which they were already doing. They had really, really great conversion rates on their webinar because they would tell their own stories of why past questions weren't enough. All of that. I said, we're not throwing that away, we're just getting more people there. Also, their prices were very, very low. They were charging two 50 for a four month coaching program. I was like, Ooh, that is too small. So, but they had a hard time. Charging more because it was like passion, but also like, oh, these people are just moving. There's so many \[00:25:00\] expenses. So I got them to do the math. The math of retakes, the cost of it, the cost and loss income, the um, the, the amount of, um, just like the emotional. Investment into all those process. And then they, they slowly got there. I was like, I want you to get to a four figure price, so that's my standard for you. So it took a while, but we got to 1 2 50. And so they, they, they, they were, they were happy with that. They said that they first clutched their pills and then when, when they got there in the new world, they got people to come to the webinar and they signed seven new clients at the new price. So how do I get you to sign five new high ticket care clients or refine your offer so that it becomes a money making offer, whether that, that looks like. Giving, naming the bold, I promise. Whether that looks like, um, helping you to get sold on your off, on your offer so that you're able to sell it. Because if you can't really, if you're like never seeing your price, it's gonna affect how many people you're able to sell into it. We get leads because you need people to sell to it's people. One metric that I, I guess a concept I need to refine a little bit more is I believe that you'll make much more sales if you have more client facing time. So more time with people as opposed to inside your \[00:26:00\] business. Or like when I say inside your business, I mean like inside your systems or things that don't get you in front of people. Then we look at your sales process and make sure you have a sales, we just talked about sales, so like you know all about it, and then we work on your mindset. So you know your thoughts around money, your thoughts about your work, your thoughts about the value of it, your thoughts about yourself and the conditions in your life, even like. Things, I don't feel like they're related to business, but because we're people who run these businesses, they're related anyways. And then the weekly habits, there were people who did this on the site, so they had full-time jobs and families. So we were layer layering on top of that. Who's doing what, how do we know something is done? I, I kind of help you keep score as well, like, because I'm your coach and so I. I, the money making priorities are, what did you say you're gonna do last week? Like a number do X by Y, and then did you do it? So all of that ladders into momentum over the 12 weeks. So that's really how I help you to get the clients. It's not jazz, it's not magic, it's not, it doesn't even sound sexy, but it is. It works because it is built on principles and it requires you to execute. Speaker 2: face off with your lack of execution or your execution and the data you do have, and then we tweak from there. Speaker: Mm-hmm. You, I love \[00:27:00\] the point that you made about, like they were charging $250 for, for this. Um, yeah, I think it's funny. I, I'm working with a client right now and she was charging $250 and she charged it that way. It was like, it was a very valuable, it was a parenting program. Hmm. Um, she's a parenting coach and she solves a really important. Problem. Um, but she felt like, oh, if I off, if I charge less. More people will, will buy it. And ultimately what can happen a lot is that you devalue your own service. Because if people think she is only charging two 50, then it's not actually gonna move the needle for me, or it's not actually gonna bring me the result. And so. Often if you charge more, like I talked with her and we worked her offer. We refined her offer. Yeah. And now she's charging 24 97. 2,497. Nice. And we're. Positioning the offer. So it feels a lot more \[00:28:00\] valuable Yes. For people. Um, even though like the value of it hasn't dramatically changed, but people are gonna show up differently as well. If I'm paying more for a, a program, I have more skin in the game. Yeah. I'm more likely to actually. Take the guidance given and I'm more likely to get the results. So you actually, when you raise your prices like that, you're actually doing a favor to your clients because they're more likely to get the results when they have more skin in the game. Speaker 2: Yes, and it's even, even when you raise your prices, sometimes it forces you to face off with. Um, other factors. So I have another client who's a career coach and her thing was, uh, therapy is just too, she works, she works with people who've been laid off to heal from the layoff and then like, get a next gig. I just. Convince her to add that, get their next gig because she was like, the healing is more important. I'm like, you won't be all the way healed until you get a job. Like it's gonna keep coming back with financial stress is a thing. So we worked on that. Um, but the big thing was she would, she was telling me that like most people get, tend to get their jobs in four to six months. But then her program before meeting me was three months. I'm like, okay, so \[00:29:00\] why is your program three months if people get it in four to six months? So it's not just raising your practice in isolation, it's also looking at like the holistic offer. Yeah. The container. Making sure that you're providing support to help them get those results that you promise. And even giving buffer for failure, people who struggle, right? And like making sure that you really are taking care of your people holistically and you don't resent your clients. For all that work when you're paid properly for it already. So there's all of that as well happening. Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I think that, um. There's a lot that goes into the timeline of things like what do you know, what kind of timeline do your clients need in order to get to that end result? And are you gonna stick with them in, in kind of a re reverse scenario, I have a client who was offering a one year program. Mm-hmm. And I wanna say it was like six. Thousand dollars for the a year of support. And she, it was a group program and she decided to change, um, to, to change the offer to a six month program because people felt like a \[00:30:00\] year, like, it's gonna take me a year to get through all this. Like I want. I want more immediate success and so she changed it to six month. She has not changed her delivery at all. Like she is, she is, they're still getting what they need in six months and then she basically is telling them at that point, if you wanna know another six months, you can have it for free. So like, but it's a mindset shift. Like they're like, okay, so interesting. Yeah, I know like the carrot at the end of this is gonna happen in six months, and if it doesn't, then I have the option to continue at no charge. Speaker 2: Yeah. One person that's coming to mind as you described that is, I guess. It's related, but, so it's a product coach. She helps people to validate and launch, I forget her exact promise right now, but, um, she had a six week accelerator and it was good for like, validating the idea. Uh, but not everybody would have their prototype by the end of that time because when you're dealing with a physical thing, you know, yeah. It takes time. Speaker 2: So I was like, okay, \[00:31:00\] why can't you, can the core program accelerator bit be in the six week? Um, spare and then she added on a bit of coaching and then let the entire program be a year so that if they need. The accelerator is there for them to do the validation and all of that and be their wait list. But then, because you know that you're already offering prolonged support, like she was helping people for free after the container. So why don't you just make it like a year long thing? Yeah. So like there's space for you to offer that additional support, but you still promise their accelerator, which gets the job done. And people, like you're saying, don't feel like, oh my God, this is gonna take a whole year for me to do this, but they know that if it does, if I do need support with other things during that year s to this thing, I have it. So. Very interesting. There's a lot of nuances around it. And pricing isn't just like a, a one price bid all, I guess. Speaker: Right. And if, you know, if your timeline is shorter, it doesn't mean you have to charge less. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So maybe 12 week. Yeah. Let's, let's dive into the 12 week sprint that you talk about. I've read that book. It's called the 12 week year. Is that what it's. Called? Yeah, it is. It totally blew my mind. I like ended up buying some like Canva \[00:32:00\] planners around the 12 week year and it, it really resonated with me and I think it makes a lot of sense with the way humans operate, but for people that aren't familiar with it, like Phyllis and what is it? Speaker 2: Okay. So I think the core. Ethos slash gist of the book is that if we, the reason why we wake up every New Year's Day and we have resolutions is that it's like a natural reset in time and we feel like, okay, um, I need to, like a new page has turned, I need to do these new things and. When the end of the year is coming, there's a natural urgency because you feel like the year is about to end. All these goals are set for myself, whether that's as an individual or as a business. There's so many sales during the end of the year because people finally realize that the period is set for themself is coming to an end. And so the, the, the end, the entire point is saying that like instead of waiting for an entire year to have that urgency, what if you allowed. Every week to be the equivalent, equivalent \[00:33:00\] of a month, and you give yourself 12 weeks for your goal. But then during that time you are focused on execution, owning your goal, and measuring your input. So if you have a goal, don't just say, oh, I have 12 months, or I have 12 weeks. Like every single week you decide if my goal is to. Is to, um, get clients. How many more leads do I have? Like, do I, what's a lead? Is it a name? And, and somebody I can contact an email. So then you measure that, that you have something you measure. So it's also about tracking and having, knowing that. The outputs we want comes from a bunch of input. And so since we don't really get to control the output, we get to control our input, put our attention on focusing on that input. And, um, well, that means that you need to, first of all, figure out if you have the right input. And once you do, just measure that and score yourself against. What did I do? How much of it did I do? And if you achieve 85% of the, say, if you wanted to go to get 10 leads every week and you get at least 8.5, which you can, so eight or nine, then you've, you've done good, right? If you \[00:34:00\] did six and you keep doing 6, 5, 4 week after week, it's not a mystery that you might not get to your goal because you're not. Being, you're not keeping your promises to yourself in the moment. And so it also helps you to just like, have radical accountability for yourself. It helps you to see that so much of what we want is, is about keeping our promises to ourselves and, um, being around making sure that we have the right inputs in the first place. So that also means that. Your life feels a bit, a bit. The things you can control, you control. I mean, there's things you can't control in life, but the ones you can control, weight loss, um, whether you go on a marathon, whether you go on a trip and you save forest, whether you get the clients you want, you control it. So how I use it, um, I use it loosely, but I like that we have 12 weeks as a deadline. It creates that natural sense of urgency there. Um, and then it forces us to focus on what are we doing like, and how much of it are we doing every single week. So you would just say. I want to have a webinar. Okay, what date is it? How many leads do you need to get to come to it? What are you going to do between when they sign up and when the webinar comes? Like your emails, what are they gonna look like? What are you gonna say in those emails? It helps us, it forces us to get into the nitty \[00:35:00\] gritty and then to evaluate them on how much are we doing and how well are we doing it? Speaker: I think there's also a real truth in, in humans, we feel very disconnected. From who we're gonna, who we are a year from now. Speaker: feel very connected with who, who we are a month from now, or three months from now. Yeah. And so it's this ability to kind of reign in our connection with our own self and kind of work in this like micro microbubble and then reset. And what a gift, you know, what a gift to kind of, after 12 weeks go, okay, now what I'm gonna focus on. Speaker 2: And, and it forces you to make goals that are like. Yes, ambitious, but also rightsized to the time you have so that you don't create this massive thing that feels insurmountable. I think the bigger thing also is because 12 weeks is short, if you really don't teach your goals, you have three more 12 weeks to go in the same year rather than waiting, uh, the whole 12 months to find that out. So if it allows you to iterate faster, and I love the part about getting data \[00:36:00\] faster as well, so Yeah. Yeah, totally. Speaker: So tell me, what are the what? What's the one thing that keeps service providers stuck when it comes to growing their business? Speaker: one thing. Or three? You, I'm just kidding. Gimme more. I know there's a lot. Speaker 2: think that one of them is that. We love new things, especially when it comes to marketing. We love the new and, um, I feel like I have to borrow Alex Mo's framework of for this one, and it's like there's more, better, new and we should most of the time start we doing more of what works. For example, if you're trying to get more leads and you want to focus on social media to do that, maybe do more of the posts on LinkedIn and like after a while, look at your data to see which ones are. Resonating and then do now. Now you know what is better, do more, what's better before you add new, a new platform, a new thing, ads or whatever, but mm-hmm. Because we love to learn. I find that we love new, \[00:37:00\] we love to figure out this is the one thing that's gonna fix your launches. This is the one thing that's gonna fix your emails. And so we buy, we spend time learning. We listen to podcasts where they say, this is how I made a million dollars. This is how I made my next. Like, so that is very attractive. So focus is really hard because. New is attractive and pulls at our attention. So the biggest thing that keeps service providers stuck is, I would say, is the chasing of the new. But also maybe for me, I just think about my own life. 'cause I was, whenever I think of this examples, I like to remember that my ideal clients are also very smart people and they just know, they, they, it's not just that they know. Like they know what to do. Yes, that's another one. You know what to do, but you're not doing it. So knowing what to do isn't enough. So now you know what to do. Now you know what, what you need to do more of, but are you doing it? So if you haven't done it, the results aren't gonna magically appear. That's one I still fall for and I have to like challenge myself to, to, to do better on. So, yeah. Um. Things that help with that. Uh, for me, I like deadlines. I give myself deadlines to do things. Um, it's why I have like a, a legion event called the Lead Sprint, which I help people to get leads in that time. And I like it because, because I know the date is coming, I've announced \[00:38:00\] it. I must do all those things towards it. So that helps me. Um. How my brain works. I even did things like the first time I did it, I was in the airport and I gave myself an hour between when I was gonna board to like get my page out, send it like it could be, it didn't have to be perfect. It just has to be done. So, right. That's another, I guess if you know how your brain works and work, work with it. Yeah. Um, and also get help when you need help to, um, fix your blind spots if you will. Speaker: Totally, totally. I, I was, uh, meeting a few friends for lunch the other day and I had a video that I needed to record and I had to leave in like 15 minutes and I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna record this video 'cause I knew I had this short period of time. Mm-hmm. And I knew if I challenged myself with that, I would not overthink it. I wouldn't rerecord it. I wouldn't like, try and make it perfect. I recorded the damn thing and went to lunch and it was done. And, um, it's great when you kind of get to know yourself and are able to kind of work with your own.\[00:39:00\] Tendency to, uh, procrastinate. I'm talking about my own self. Speaker: And, um, and then, you know, work around that a little bit. So, um, Fopsy, this has been so wonderful and chockfull of so much information and insights. Tell my listeners where we can find you. Speaker 2: So if you're listening, first of all, it's been really great chatting with you and I'm like, this is so fun. It feels like we've known each other for a while. I love that. It was very conversational. Those are my favorite types of podcasts to listen to. So me too, love it. And I think I'm gonna listen back and people are gonna love it as well. Yeah. Thank you for having me. So if you're listening and you're a service provider, a coach or a consultant or a creative who's tired of like the good months and the bad months. You don't need another course, another strategy, another viral post. You need structure, you need focus, you need execution. And that's what we work on together instead of my one-on-one coaching money making priorities. So in 12 weeks we'll clarify your offer, then we'll also help you generate leads, build a sales process that helps you sign at least five new high to get clients. Um, and. First, you can start by joining my next lead sprint. Actually, that's where we'll help you \[00:40:00\] get more leads in five days flat. And it's free. So the link will be in the description. It's also on my website@fsy.ca. Fsy is spelled FO psy.ca. But if you are like, okay, I wanna skip that and actually just work with you one-on-one, um, you should head that to Fopsy.ca/call to book a sales call. It's an hour dedicated to your business, identifying your top money, making priorities. And mapping out your own plan over the, for the next 12 weeks. We do it right on the call, by the way. So it's pretty fun to do it together. So every, all roads leads to my website, fopsy.ca. Looking forward to chatting with you soon. Speaker: Awesome. Well, thank you again and This was so much fun. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-shardul ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Shardul ### Page ID: 8436389 ### Content: ## Ever felt like you're so deep inside your business that you can't see it clearly anymore? ## "I saw a 986% increase in conversions in the first 30 days of going live! #### –Shardul Mehta, Coach **That's where Shardul was. He knew he needed a strategic approach to his website, but every time he tried to tackle it himself, he'd get frustrated.** He's a business strategist helping entrepreneurs scale. Smart. Experienced. Results-driven. But his website? It wasn't converting. At all. His LinkedIn traffic hit his site and bounced. Zero conversions. His visitor-to-subscriber rate sat at just over 2%. He knew he needed to change something, but every time he tried to fix it himself, he'd get stuck, frustrated by the words, the layout, the technical pieces. **"I would've spent six months, maybe twelve, just trying to figure it out," he told me.** Then he went through my Signature Story-Selling System, and within 30 days of launching, the numbers told a different story. The traffic that used to bounce? Now they were engaging. ***"You took the time to understand my business, my customers, and me. That's the secret sauce. I felt like I had hired a chief of marketing. These are remarkable results, and it's only been one month."*** That's what happens when your message finally clicks. Everything shifts. If you're tired of DIY marketing that eats your time without delivering results, book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call) [](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call)with me today. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/stop-being-everywhere-let-your-website-do-the-selling ### Title: Stop Being Everywhere: Let Your Website Do the Selling with Sarah Glenn ### Page ID: 8483891 ### Content: Stop Being Everywhere: Let Your Website Do the Selling with Sarah Glenn I used to think I had to show up everywhere to grow my business. Instagram, LinkedIn, networking events, podcasts, email... the list never ended. Then I figured out something that changed everything: your website can do the heavy lifting for you. When it tells the right story, it becomes your best salesperson, working 24/7 while you focus on what you actually love doing. **In my latest podcast conversation with Sarah Glenn, I'm sharing:** ? The "solar system" approach that lets you pick just two marketing activities and forget the rest ? My simple email template for getting testimonials without awkward follow-ups ? Two design rules that make your website look polished (no design skills needed) This one's packed with practical stuff you can use right away. Stop Being Everywhere: Let Your Website Do the Selling with Sarah Glenn \[00:00:00\] I had the best conversation with Sara Glenn on the branded podcast, and it was so good. I wanted to share it with you here today. Here we go. Sarah: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Hello everyone and welcome on to branded. This is the podcast that takes you behind the scenes and beyond the brand. I am super excited to bring Kris Jones back into the branded family. We're doing another, uh, podcast with Kris and. If you don't remember her from the first episode, she is the founder of Red Door Stories and Story Brand Guide with 20 plus years of high level industry experience. Kris is passionate about helping coaches and service providers replace all of their marketing with a single story. So they can get more clients, grow their business and focus \[00:01:00\] on what they do best. Kris, thank you so much for being here. Kris: Thank you for having me, sir. I'm really, really thrilled to be here. Sarah: And honestly, Kris and I, we were chatting before we started recording this episode and we are so in sync and like aligned with the things that we're thinking about for our business, the things we're thinking about for our clients. And we really thought that this would be a really fantastic episode to bring to you guys, especially with the history of. Episodes I've been doing in 2025, um, this just fits the mold so beautifully. And on top of all of that, Kris has a really exciting development happening in her business. She is launching her second book from click to client, how to get, um, how to easily create a story driven website that turns visitors into clients. And today you guys are getting a sneak peek, kind of deep dive into some of Kris's favorite parts of this book. Yay. And honestly, this is one of the things I wish that I saw more of \[00:02:00\] before I go and buy a book or buy the audible, how like incredible is it? He gets to talk to the author and like really deep dive into all the juicy bits of the book. So, um, we're going to dive right in. The first thing that I want to really. Um, what you've got going on is once you have that story driven website, so let me just preface if you guys haven't seen the first, uh, podcast with Kris. Go watch that. I can link it in the show notes here, but we talk a lot about getting that story driven website and that story driven brand for your business. And so this episode is going to pair really nicely with that one. Um, but yeah, let's start there. Once you have that story driven website, how do you then get all the eyeballs on it that you need? Kris: Exactly, right? If you have a website, but no one's coming to visit the website, it's definitely not going to be working for you. And what happens, I would say, like what happens for most people, \[00:03:00\] um, is they feel like, okay, I've, I've got to have a website. I have a business, I have to web, I have to have a website. I've got to get something up quickly. So, you know, I can point people to it. And so typically. We will hop on Squarespace or hop on Wix and pull up a template, fill in the blanks and kind of follow their lead. And I'm a big fan of, of cloud builders like Squarespace and Wix because they make it so easy. But the challenge with the templates that they provide are like these builders are in the business of brochure websites. They're not in the business of client converting websites. So if you, yeah, and they, they can make a beautiful website, right? If you follow their template, sure. It looks pretty, but is it effective? And what's the point of paying that monthly fee if it's not going \[00:04:00\] to effectively convert you clients. And then the. The expense of that is really less about the monthly fee and like how many clients are Potential clients are coming to the website and then moving along that you don't know about and and ended up ending up finding somebody else so when you Really take the time to make your website a story driven website. It totally changes the way Um, your website works for you. The idea is really to have a website that becomes your best sales person. So you don't have to be the one selling all the time. I mean, it's, it, number one, people don't love selling. I would say I would like most people actually hate selling. Um, and so. We want to be able to do that less. And what's beautiful is that our website can really do that heavy lifting for us. So if the website is converting \[00:05:00\] people, um, when they book a call with us, they're either already sold or they're so excited about working with us, those sales calls. Are really a lot of fun because they're already pre sold and then they're just like, okay, what's it going to look like to work together? So that's the importance of having a story driven website once you have one Then there are ways to really ensure that you get eyeballs On that website. And there are ways that you can really amplify its effectiveness. Um, the first way is really treating your website as the hub of your business, your website. If you imagine like the visual of the solar system and our sun is the central. Part of our universe, right? So, um, so really all your little, all your marketing efforts or \[00:06:00\] your marketing activities, um, really circle around that sun and point. People back to it. So I like to tell my clients You do not have to be everywhere and be doing everything if you're not an instagram person Don't worry about instagram. Like what are you drawn to are you drawn to? Having your own podcast are you drawn to having podcast being a podcast guest which is really how I Amplified. My business was really being a guest. I love that. That feels effortless for me. So that was one of the things that I picked. And then the other thing that I picked was email marketing, just emailing my list and nurturing those relationships. So I say there are lots of planets that you can. Yeah. Delve into as far as marketing activities. You don't have to pick all of them. Pick one or two that you really enjoy. And then put your \[00:07:00\] energy into those. And point, always point people back to the website. Um, because the website is really the central hub of your business. So. It just takes the pressure off because you can just show up, you can share your message, you can be present, um, and then you just know, you point people to the website and it's going to do that heavy lifting for you. Sarah: Yeah, I completely agree. And I think that it's a shift in perspective that is really important for business owners and this Particular time because so many business owners are, they rely so heavily on social media. Awesome. It does a lot of lifting for you. It's a great place to have conversations. It's a great place to showcase things, but it should never be the foundational. It shouldn't be the son of your business, right? As Kris says, like Instagram should not be the son that your \[00:08:00\] business. Revolves around because it is, you potentially could be in some deep water. If something goes a little sideways, we don't, you know, we don't own these platforms. We they're free for us to use. So use them as a free marketing tool, use them as the asset that they are. But I am so with you getting a website that reflects. It's your business that does all of that heavy lifting for you. And yeah, it can be a little bit, it can feel a little overwhelming, I think in the very beginning to do all of that work. But if you just like anything in life, you know, if it's worth doing, it's worth putting effort into. And that work on the front end of having those conversations with somebody, or even if you're just talking with chat GPT, right? Like having. Having those moments to reveal, okay, what's the story of my brand? How can I then translate it into the website? And you're so right. \[00:09:00\] When you say it removes so much pressure when you are showing up live, when you're doing, you know, static content, whatever it is, you don't have to be thinking, okay, where do I need to send people now? Where's the, where's the thing that has the thing that I promised? It's all in one place and you don't have to think about it. Like it really is like so much, so much easier. Kris: Yeah. I really think of your, of your business like a house, right? If you don't want to build your house on without a foundation and when you do rely on Instagram and social, um, which I'm in agreement with you, I think they're both. They're all, um, really can be really important ways to grow our business and very effective if we enjoy that when it doesn't work is when you don't enjoy it and you feel like you have to do it. And so I like to let people off the hook. You do not have to do a social media if you don't like it. It's not, it's not an obligation, \[00:10:00\] but. As you shared, you don't own the platform. They could turn you off in a matter of an hour. Um, flip of a switch all of a sudden, no more Instagram or Tik TOK. And, um, and then what do you do? Right. And, and so when you take the time to really build a solid foundation for your business, it, it involves, um, taking the time and putting the energy into making sure that that foundation is. Going to support you and that it's strong and that you own it and it can't be taken away from you. Sarah: Yeah, yeah I'm such a firm believer of the importance of a website because I was Very much on the fence before I really started getting into this work a few years ago where I was like, yeah Sure websites antiquated because I wasn't really visiting them. I wasn't running my business at that time But they really aren't integrated because anytime you \[00:11:00\] get an email that sells you into something It's taking you to a website a funnel page, whatever It's almost never taking you to a social media platform, right? Like social media for me the way I see it. That's maybe Like the door you walk through, but the house you're in is the website, right? Like, yeah, it's very much that Kris: sometimes I talk about it. Like, you know, you've, you've built this house, right. And you've just, it's got a strong foundation. You've, if you've built this house and then you want to have a housewarming party, and so you send out invitations to everybody to join you for the celebration and the social media is. A lot like those invitations, it's reaching all your people, it's inviting them to come to your house. And so the last thing you want to do is send out all those invitations. Um, and people RSVP, they show up at the door and \[00:12:00\] then they, they get there and the house is half done and it's under construction. Sarah: No, not at all. Right. Um, All right. So I, I mean, I love, we're so in sync. It's crazy how we, we really are thinking along the same lines of this. And I think it is. It's such a conversation that just is, it's ready to be had for a lot of these business owners. Because I do think in this age of social media and as we, um, the autonomy of a business I think is what is so important for people right now and really understanding that like they can stand on their own two feet and have a strong business without having to rely on all of these other bits and pieces. And so honestly, for me, that's what's. So valuable about having this podcast, about having these conversations, it's really just reminding people of their own empowerment, right? Their own power of how much they can take control of their business. Um, so the next part of \[00:13:00\] the conversation I want to have, and this one's probably going to be a little juicy. Um, I want to talk about having that social proof, having that testimonial. Um, this is something I'm. I'll like vulnerable moment. I don't do well enough for my own business. It's something that is on my mind as a improvement project. Number one for this year. But I know that you have a really fantastic, like Finger on the pulse of how to do this really well. And so I wanna ask you, you know, how important is it to have that proof of your work? Mm-hmm . And how can you like really bring it all together and get it onto your site in a way that Kris: I love that you're calling it proof. Um, because truly that's what it is. It, people talk about testimonials and case studies and all that stuff. It's just proof. Like that's what, that's how we need our brains to be thinking of that. \[00:14:00\] And. When potential clients come to your website, there is nothing more powerful that you can do than to show proof that not only are you the expert at this, but you have helped other people get the results that your potential clients are really craving. Like what can be more powerful than having proof on your website that you can do this, right? And so, um, people believe what Other people say about you more than they believe what you say about you. And that's the other reason these, this proof is so effective. Um, but there are a lot of challenges around getting it, which is probably why like you, you've put it on the back burner, most entrepreneurs. Put this on the back burner. There's always like another fire to put out or task to address and this part of it falls on the bottom of the to do \[00:15:00\] list and even when we Remember to do it, right you you think of it and you're like, okay I should email a client and get their feedback because I know they they loved working with me and a lot of wonderful changes happen for them. I'd love to get their feedback on it. So we email them and say, would you mind like sharing a few words about what it was like to work with me? And your client gets that. And number one, they're like, of course, right? I loved Sarah. I loved working with Sarah. I'd love to give her a review. And I have to say, I've been on the receiving end of this, so I know exactly what it feels like to get that request and have such good intentions around it and then have that get lost in my inbox and I never reply with the, the testimonial. And so, um. \[00:16:00\] Then that puts us in an awkward situation because you don't want to remind me to give you a testimonial. By the way, there's something nice Kris: Just check it in. Any nice words about me? And so it creates this awkward. Um, energy around like, okay, well, maybe they didn't want to give me a review and I don't want to pressure them to give me a testimonial if they don't want to. And then essentially it, it disappears into, to the ethers and you don't get a testimonial. Or, what happens, uh, often, too, is just you don't get around to asking for a testimonial. The other thing that happens is they give you a testimonial, but it's three paragraphs long and And so you're like, okay, this is amazing. And they talk about, oh, it was Sarah Glenn. She's so smart and she's so much fun. We really clicked and I thank you. I can't thank \[00:17:00\] you enough. Um, but those testimonials. Don't don't really speak to the the transformation that you provide right there They rave about how great you are. Well, of course, you're great I mean people aren't going to make decisions to work with you based on if you're great or not They're gonna make a decision to work with you based on if you can provide a transformation Kris: them that they're looking for and so I Have an email template that I share with my clients And it's essentially an email, it says, Hey, you know, would you be willing to, to answer a few questions? And I break it down. So it's not this big ask of like, will you write me a testimonial? It's like, can you answer three or four questions? And they're very short. And, and it says, this should not take you more than two or three minutes. Um, and then you ask them \[00:18:00\] three or four short questions. They reply back to you answering those questions and then you merge those answers together into one narrative that really communicates the struggle that they were having before they worked with you. And what it was like to work with you. And then the, the ultimately that the benefit or the, the success that they got to experience as a result of working with you. And so that those kind of three buckets right there really. Communicate the shortest story ever told, um, which is just really the transformation that a client happens from struggle to success and how you do that for your clients. So it just allows you to share testimonials on your website that are concise, if they're not concise. Um, if the font is too small, no one will read them if they're on a \[00:19:00\] slider, no one will read them and in fact, that's even worse because people might get halfway through them and then the slider moves and then they haven't finished and that's a frustrating kind of experience to have on your website. If people are at your website and they feel frustrated, that's That's like, um, unconsciously that shows them that working with you is going to be frustrating. And so we just want everything to, to flow and be easy and, um, present that proof, you know, because we have it. I mean, we have the proof. We all have clients that we've worked with that are thrilled with, with the result that they've gotten. And it just couldn't be more important to have that on your website. Sarah: I think, honestly, that's the piece of this that I have struggled with that I'm so glad that you mentioned, because it's exactly the answer that I've been looking for and \[00:20:00\] the change I need to make in getting that proof for myself is outlining. For the person because I can ask all day long, you know, Hey, would you mind doing a testimonial? And like you said, everyone will say yes, but the next thing that tends to happen is they go, well, what, what do you want me to say? And I'm like, it's coming from you. Right. And that's honestly been my, it's been the issue that hasn't created that proof. Hasn't created those testimonials of, you know, I get these text messages and voice memo saying how amazing I am, but I really need to I'm going to craft a way of making that narrative like he said, and piecing these things together. And so now I know that that's room for improvement in my own business that I can start to really. Um, become a little bit more systemized with getting the proof of my work, rather than just flying by the seat of my pants and, you know, smiling at a really kind text message, I can \[00:21:00\] really get much more intentional about it. Um, and like I said, that's, that's 1 of my business goals for this year. And this conversation is just happening at the perfect time. I love it on the topic of testimonials. Because this is a question I get too. Well, would you prefer me write something or do you want me to record myself? Kris: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. What's your take? Yeah, that's so good. Um, before we dive into that, I wanted to share, I'm so glad you brought that up about like, you hear wonderful things from your clients just from day to day, right? But um, what do you do with that? Yeah, and. And what I often do, because I'm always, my brain is always thinking like testimonial, like end goal testimonial. And so I have that kind of filter going all the time. So if they're sharing with me what they've been struggling with, like I file that in my brain. And then if they have wonderful \[00:22:00\] things to say about the experience of what, what's happened for them, I filed that in my brain. And, or like you. Said you have it on a voice text or, you know, Vox or whatever, like you can capture that information and what I will do often is I'll compile that information into a testimonial for them based on words that they shared with me. So I'm, I might cobble it together from a couple of different text messages or from what I remember from that initial call, where they were before we worked together. Then I'll write a two to three sentence testimonial and say, Hey Jamie, um, here are a few things that you shared with me. While we work together, and I'm wondering, um, if I can use this as a testimonial on my website. Does this feel aligned with what your experience \[00:23:00\] was? And if not, feel free to tweak it and edit it and reply back to me with your changes. And so you're doing the heavy lifting, right? It's based on things they've shared with you and insights that you've had. Um, but. You're doing the work for them, but it's also really authentic because it's based on what they've shared with you. Sarah: I agree I think that's a fantastic way to do it I need to get a better system in place of like where I store these messages Kris: Yeah, I mean, even if you kept like a, um, what is Google's note taking thing again? Is it keep, Sarah: is it, oh, yeah. Google Keep is something I've seen it. Um, one of my clients, I use it for images, but uh, I suppose you could, I mean you could just have Kris: like a one that you just dump. Anytime you get a compliment, you just dump it in there and then \[00:24:00\] when the time is right, that's smart. I'll have also look at Keith and Sarah: see what it does. Yeah. All sorts of tools out there. Kris: um. I know that, well, whatever note taking tool, there's like notion and you could honestly just have a Google doc called like, you know, client, client compliments. Um, so as far as video testimonials go, um, versus written, they're both incredibly powerful tools. I would say, um. You know, the, the easiest ones to get are often the written ones, just because people sometimes don't feel comfortable on camera or, you know, especially if you're like, Hey, can you give me a video testimonial? Um, yeah, people don't know what to say. And then they're recording themselves. Like I don't even like doing that on camera a fair amount. And, um, So what I like to do with my clients, well, number one, I'll say, \[00:25:00\] uh, video testimonials are like, you can quote me on this a million times more powerful than a written testimonial. They're both really effective, but no video is. It's so powerful because it's just more believable and also people can relate. You can hear the voice, right? You can, you can see the person and so you can resonate with them more easily and it just becomes more believable. Um, and you can also repurpose video testimonials and written ones, right? But you can reuse that stuff in your email newsletter or in your social media, right? You can, there are little workhorses that work for you. So it does. It does pay to put a little time and energy Kris: them. Um, the same email template that I have with the four questions that I asked my clients to kind of pull out that \[00:26:00\] transformation. Um, I've built in a system into my process where when I finished working with a client, I book a 15 minute Like check in call with them where they can share what's going on for them. And also I let them know, like, I, is it okay if I record this and ask you a few questions about your experience? And I asked them those same four questions and then they answer those questions. I uploaded into Descript, which is my editing, um, platform, and I just edit out my voice and I just. Merge their answers together into one narrative and it's, you can see examples of this on my website. Like I have a whole page with just video testimonials and it's, it's so efficient. I mean, the calls 15 minutes, but we're usually done in about 10 minutes. Um, and \[00:27:00\] it's a great way to just check in with your clients too. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: Well, I think it's a fantastic, like such a smart business move because It's doing two really powerful things. It's giving you the proof of the transformative work that you just did with this client. But it's also giving your client, like, it's closing the loop on the work that you're doing together. But it's, it's giving them this, like, sense of, um, connection and like empowerment. And there's just this other level of service. By you copying on that extra call with them, showing that you care, and really interested Sarah: their transformation, not just in the fact that they paid you for work, and now they're gone, like that's not what it's about, you Absolutely, and also I think as humans, sometimes we forget the, uh, the headway that we've made and the accomplishments that we've achieved. And so what a \[00:28:00\] great way to kind of wrap up the engagement to, for them to remind themselves of the struggle that they had before. And now that they're on the other side of that struggle and they're truly the hero of their own story. Yeah. But they're really, um, they're really getting to remember that fresh in their mind about how far they've come. Sarah: No, it's really, really smart. And it's such a great way to celebrate the, the success that, or, you know, that transition that has happened because, um, there was a quote that I saw recently and it was something like, we always, We're never actually feeling the full like excitement and celebration of our success and the things we achieve because we're constantly setting new benchmarks for ourselves, setting new goals. So we forget about the old goals, right? Yeah, I did that already, but we don't celebrate it. And so I think this is such a smart way to get what you need as a business owner, but to really. The clients celebrate those things because you're \[00:29:00\] so right. It can be so hard for them to see all of the change that has happened, especially if they're maybe not the one doing the work they're only seeing, you know, the client facing side of things, not really the back end of their business sometimes. Um, and so it's such a great way to. Help them get a full perspective and a full view of their own business as well. Kris: Yeah, it'd be fun to do like a a Venn diagram or some kind of visual of like All the things that happen with this one 10 minute call Because now my brain's going and i'm like, you know, what else happens is that you as the business owner Get a boost of confidence and a reminder for how powerful and effective your your work is. I mean the strategic The unintentional byproduct of this is that I get to. Be witnessing like the effectiveness of the work that I do, and that keeps my \[00:30:00\] momentum going and keeps me really excited about the work that I'm doing. And so it's just like the ripple effect. It's endless, right? Yeah, Sarah: no, I, this is getting me really excited about integrating. Proof of my work into my business model, because it honestly hasn't been. And like I mentioned, I mean, I'm not afraid to admit, like, I don't run my business perfectly. And that is absolutely a place that I am falling short, which, you know, personally, I don't feel like I'm falling short. Cause I see those text messages, right? Sarah: And so figuring out a way to really do it, um, in a way that's like. Elegant and makes sense. And also highlighting, like for me, I love highlighting my, uh, my client's businesses. And when I just redid my website, um, about a month or two ago, I decided to actually utilize my client's businesses as part of my like brand story, because that's how \[00:31:00\] my business is evolving. And so it's been really great to be able to be like, well, so and so was looking to do this. And so go check out their site. And so it's like, This really symbiotic relationship between Promoting and selling my business while also showcasing the work I'm doing and the incredible work that my clients are doing. Sarah: So I want to talk about, like, we talked about a story driven website, but in that, it's not just the words we say, right? It's also the design. That we present. Yes. So what, where's the, what's the power behind that story driven design element? Kris: Yes, um, yeah, I'm a big, big believer and I, I know we're both aligned in Like design and the power of design our brains process visuals and \[00:32:00\] images so much faster than we process words and so when you take the time to really have a story driven website and make sure your words are intentional and Powerful and effective when you marry that with visuals that are aligned with and really bringing to life those words, um, you kind of pour gas on the fire with your website's effectiveness. So whether it's images, photos that you use, certain icons that you use, whether it's the way you treat your typography, I, I, I believe that, you know, Not everybody has the budget to hire a professional designer to design their site. There are ways and design principles that you can integrate that don't require you to be a designer. Um, one of them that I talk about in the book is just \[00:33:00\] Using only two fonts on your website. So pick only two fonts don't use any other fonts and just stick to those two and then the other thing that this is one that really It happens so often and it's like the easiest way to up level your website is just to pick three font sizes. You have a headline font size, you have a subhead font size, and you have a body copy or a paragraph font size. And let's just say it's like 25 for the headlines, 20 for the subhead, and 17 for the body. If you just keep to those three sizes, your whole website is going to elevate. I will tell you, majority of the websites I look at have like, I don't know, 18, 20, 25 different font sizes and our eyes really crave \[00:34:00\] Simplicity and order. And most importantly, our, our brains and our eyes crave a guide. Like we want to know that you've done the work to, um, refine your website. So my eye knows exactly where to go. Where do you want my eye to go? Tell me, show me, don't make me figure it out myself. So our eyes know that headlines are the most important thing. If we want to dig in a little. Deeper, we do the subhead and then we're really into like the content. We read the paragraph copy, but, um, that's a great way for your website to really feel just very clean, um, and professional. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with you. I think that when. I first was getting into website design, I was of the idea, you know, make it anything you want, as exciting as you want, but the more I've started to do design work and, and really refine what I'm \[00:35:00\] doing and in my own craft, I have absolutely come to the conclusion that simpler is always better, repurposing an image and multiple places, Never going to lose because people aren't going to see every single page of your website, right? So repurpose the copy people aren't going to when they didn't read the paragraph on page one. Guess what? They might be reading the paragraph on page three like Kris: they don't read your website like they do a book, right? They don't go from page to page to page and so and and often like I won't necessarily Repeat, but repeat the exact text, but I'll, I'll strum the same notes over and over. Right. And you just keep kind of banging on that same drum over and over because people need to hear things eight times before they can actually commit it to memory and absorb it. And so it does like it, it's actually less work for you. So you can kind of hone in \[00:36:00\] on your core. The, the core things that you want to communicate and then keep kind of strumming that chord over and over again. Sarah: I love that you mentioned the typography because that I wholeheartedly agree with you to two different fonts, same sizes, you know, and the way you want to use it, use it the same way. Um, and I'll add to that, make sure that it also is mobile friendly, because if you have a size 25 headline on the desktop, looks beautiful, size 25 on a mobile phone, looks crazy. You know what I mean? Totally. Yes. And that's something that I've really been diving into a lot lately with my podcast episodes and my messaging is really getting people to understand like the responsiveness of your website. Yes. Can absolutely be a win for your business or will drive people away faster than anything. Kris: have a whole, I have a whole section in the book on mobile \[00:37:00\] first design and, um, and those cloud builders that we've talked about will automatically convert that for you. But that is not, um, a science like that will, they, they kind of like. They do their, their best first pass at it, but it's really your job to go back in and literally look at your website on a mobile, Kris: a smartphone, and then go through and edit it little by little to make sure it's converting. Because most people now are. looking at your website on a mobile device. And not only that, they're, they're taking it and they're, they're scrolling through this fast. So that's why everything has got to be concise and clear. No one's going to read long bodies text. Your fonts have to be really legible. Like they can't be too huge. They can't be too tiny. And it's your job to really. Ensure that wherever they experience your website \[00:38:00\] design, um, that it, it's that they can digest it easily. I, I talk in the book a little bit about story driven design, thinking of it as like a, um, a musical score. when you watch a movie, right? If it's done well, you don't notice it. It's there. It's like amplifying the emotions. It's creating some tension. It's like, it's taking us on a journey and we don't even know because we're so enthralled with the story. And that's really the role of your design is when it's done well. People aren't consciously aware of it. They just know it feels good and they know that they really like, they get what you're trying to say. And so that's how I like to think about it. No, that's Sarah: an incredible analogy because when you, when you say, well, what does your website feel like? I think sometimes that can fall flat as a question because people are like.\[00:39:00\] I don't know. I mean, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Right. But that was a great analogy because it is so true. You're watching a movie, the music starts and you're like, wow, that's how I'm feeling right now. And the music's actually reflecting the, you know, or the, Oh, something joyous, you know, whatever. It's conveying exactly what you're feeling in the moment without you having to prompt that to happen. And yeah, I so agree with the website design. As you're scrolling, you find yourself going, okay, I'm, I'm in this. It's like, it's grabbed me in a way that makes me want to just keep like, it's like looking at an open house. You go to an open house and you walk through, you know, you're in the foyer and you're like, well, okay, let's check out room number one and you just keep going and all of a sudden you're like, Am I in the market to buy a house right now? I didn't think Kris: I was. Now I am. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I mean, uh, and back to the movie \[00:40:00\] analogy, like the script of the movie or the actor's dialogue is like the story that you're sharing and we're so pulled into the story, but. Part of the reason we're so pulled into this story is because the design is supporting and in alignment with that story. The design is really bringing that story to life. And when you've got both the written words really clear and compelling, and you've got the design really aligned with The, the written narrative that you, that you've crafted, that's when you really bubble up to the top of the internet. That's when you stand out as a leader in your industry. That's when your website really starts to work like your top sales employee. It's incredibly powerful. And almost no one's doing both of those things together. Yeah. Sarah: Oh, I know. And not to mention the confidence that it instills in you as a business owner and you can confidently and someone \[00:41:00\] to your website k Decide to book a call. They're going to do it. If they want to buy something, they totally can. Like having that level of confidence in your website, knowing it can be that heavy lifting is Kris: huge. So good. It's so good. And we talk a lot about like the importance of a website or how powerful. A website can be to really capture potential clients. And when it's done really well, of course it does that, right? That's, that's our priority, but it's secretly repelling the wrong fit clients. Right. So, which is as important, we all know what it's like to get on. Call, calls or multiple calls and waste our precious time and energy on people that are kicking tires, nodding, not ready, you know, or not aligned with, with what you do, um, are not at a phase of business where they're even ready to invest \[00:42:00\] in, in what you offer. And so it can really allow. Us as the business owner to protect our time and to attract those right fit. And they identify by being on the website. Yes, this is this, I am the right fit here or they don't identify, which is also as important. Sarah: Yeah. No, I've absolutely found myself on a site somewhat recently and it was some sort of like merchandise site, but the way it was set up, I found myself literally saying, I was like, eh, not for me. I thought, I thought, you know, maybe I saw an Instagram ad or something and I clicked into it. I don't remember the scenario, but sometimes I find myself down the rabbit hole and I'm like. This is really good. And then more times than not, I find myself down the rabbit hole going, nevermind. Let's climb up the rabbit hole. Kris: Right. Well, and, and it's interesting. It's an interesting point, especially when that kind of thing happens on \[00:43:00\] Instagram, which I. I fall victim to that all the time, like the ads are compelling. They're visually beautiful. The messaging's on target and they've obviously invested in this ad, but there's a disconnect between what the ad showed up as and then you go to the actual website and it, it's, it's almost like you're, you're at a totally different company. It doesn't, it didn't carry through. It's not, it's not cohesive. It's not consistent. And that's the other thing that really taking a story driven approach to what you do is beautiful because you do that. You do that foundational work on your website and you get it really dialed in and your story is compelling and then you get to repurpose that story everywhere. So it allows. Everything you do to really be consistent, and it's actually less work. Yeah, Sarah: make the \[00:44:00\] website the sun that your business revolves around. So smart. So, in addition to all of this, like, really, really good stuff that we've been talking about today, there's other topics in Kris's, um, first book, in her book that's about to launch from click to client, where You know, she's talking about like how to really uncover your unique brand story, why your website might be turning people away, like it takes her books, dig up, dig into all of this. And then, um, you know, commanding like a premium price point. All of these things. So if these are questions that you guys are having for your own business, absolutely visit Kris's website, reddoorstories. com. When is your new book launching? When it, when can we look? Yeah, Couple of weeks. It's done and we're creating, um, the audio version of it too. For all those people like me that like to digest. I love an audio book. Me too. Me too. \[00:45:00\] Audible. I'm like, I'm happily paying them 15 a month for all my books. Um, I've got a backlog of credits right now. I know it's the best feeling. Like, yes, I can. So, um, Yeah. So in the next couple of weeks, I would say the best thing to do would be to go to my website and just sign up to be notified when it comes out. And then you can choose, do you want to download it? Um, you want to buy it on Amazon or do you want to listen to the audio? And that would be at red door designs. forward slash book. Um, that's R E D D O O R D E S I G N S dot com forward slash book. You can get on the wait list for the book. I also have a brand new lead cast or Private podcast, um, that just came out this week that I would love to share with you guys. You can check that out. It's eight \[00:46:00\] episodes that really like get deep into the meat, a lot of what we talked about today and then really expanding on that. So that can be found at reddoordesigns. com forward slash profit dash stories. And, um, and yeah, if, if you're interested in working together, you can just go to my website and click on the blue button, which is book a money making messaging call with me and we'll do a free call. We'll talk about your business, where you're, where you want to be, and we'll look at your website together and I can really help diagnose like what's working in your story, where do you need things tuned up? Sarah: Oh, I love it. We'll put the links in the show notes for you guys. So it's super easy to get to and I know I will be on the lookout for sure. I'm going to go sign up for your wait list because I would absolutely love to listen or read. I mean, I love it. Old school. Honestly, so good, \[00:47:00\] but I mean, there's nothing like being able to just throw on some earbuds and go for a walk and listen to a really great book. So I'll be looking to download from click to client. And, um, of course, yeah, you guys check out her podcast from click to client where she's got some really incredible conversations and, um, I will be on the lookout for your book and visiting your. site and just get inspired. I hope these episodes are just inspiring people. Um, anything you want to end this, close this out with? Kris: Oh, I, I feel like we covered a lot of territory as always. I just love our conversations and I'm really, really grateful to, um, be here with you and your people today. Sarah: Absolutely. Well, I'll see you guys on the next episode, go connect with Kris. Get to looking at our website. Like, you know, as you're listening to this episode, you can be looking at other websites and really kind of digging in. Like, is this website doing this thing? If you don't have your own yet, you know, get some ideas. And I would \[00:48:00\] highly encourage you to start really looking for these kinds of things when you're looking at other people's. Um, and then I use that same script for video testimonials. So I'm happy Kris: to share that with your, uh, clients. Um, if you guys are interested, I'm happy to share that email testimonial script that I use to gather testimonials from my clients. Um, and then I use that same script for video testimonials. So I'm happy to share that with your clients. audience and we can put that in the show notes. Um, I'm going to just share it with you today. It'll be at reddoordesigns. com forward slash script. Sarah: Perfect. I think that's amazing. And yeah, that would be such a fabulous resource. We'll add all of it to the show. There's going to be so many good things to like really go take action on from today's episode. So I love it. Well, Kris, thank you so much for being here. And I know that from click \[00:49:00\] to client is just going to like go bananas. It's such like such fantastic information that business owners are just craving these days. So, um, congrats on all of the success and everything that's to come. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/declutter-your-marketing-get-more-clients-shira-gill ### Title: Declutter Your Marketing and Get More Clients with Shira Gill ### Page ID: 8532036 ### Content: Declutter Your Marketing and Get More Clients with Shira Gill I have a confession. I took a whole year off posting on Instagram. And guess what? My business kept running. Clients kept coming. That's why I was so excited to sit down with Shira Gill for this week's episode. She's an organizing expert and bestselling author who did something wild: she stopped posting on Instagram at 110,000 followers. Not because her business was failing. Because she realized one simple tool was doing all the heavy lifting. ? The marketing tool that books her clients every single week ? How to "declutter" your marketing so you're not exhausted all the time ? Why constant posting might actually be working against you If you've ever felt like you're running on a treadmill with your marketing and getting nowhere, this conversation will feel like a breath of fresh air. Declutter Your Marketing and Get More Clients with Shira Gill CTC Ep. 57 | Declutter Your Marketing and Get More Clients with Shira Gill Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Welcome to the podcast, Shira Gill. I am so delighted to have you here. I have been a big fan of yours for actually many, many years. Um, for those of you listening who might not know Shera, she is a world renowned organizing expert and she is the bestselling author of a book called Minimalist and also more books, another book called Lifestyle and Organized Living, and. She is a really beautiful example of somebody who has intentionally kept their business small but mighty. She's able been able to reach people all over the world. And also really prioritize her girls, her family, her home life, her \[00:01:00\] community. Um, I just got your email today about building a village around you and your community. So all that to say, I am so happy you're here and I cannot wait to get into it with you. Shira: Oh, thanks for the warm welcome. I'm happy to be here. Kris: So for people that aren't familiar with you, give us a snapshot about who you are and the work that you love. Shira: Sure. Um, so I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area. Um, I am the mom of two girls and live in a tiny bungalow that's about a thousand square feet for the four of us. My husband, my two teenage daughters, and our dog. Um, and I'm somewhat obsessed with small space living and minimalism and organization. Um, and my career has spanned, I guess now at the past. 16 years, um, and started when I got laid off when I was nine months pregnant, um, with my now 16-year-old daughter. So that's how I track time. Um, and I, um, lost my job while I was eight months pregnant. I was a corporate event planner. \[00:02:00\] And they had a sweep of layoffs and I had no idea what to do next. Um, but I knew that I was good at helping people declutter and get organized. I had always done it for free and for fun for my girlfriends. Um, so I built a tiny little website and I launched a local home organizing business. Um, and that now, you know, 16 years later has led me to, um, three published books and five courses and. Um, and now I spend most of my time actually, um, mentoring other small business owners, um, and helping people run kind of their own version of a small minimalist business. Kris: Hmm. How did you end up making that transition? Because you've spent a lot of years really in the organizational life editing phase, and now you are. You're working in mentoring entrepreneurs, how did that transition happen? Shira: Yeah, it was, I guess like most of my career, um, by accident. Um, so I've always, I work very hard, so that's not an \[00:03:00\] accident. But, um, you know, I started my organizing business because I lost my job and was pregnant and had to pay the bills. And then I did love organizing for many, many, many years. And a few things started happening. Um. One was the pandemic. So I literally, overnight could not go into people's homes and could not see clients. So there was kind of a major, um, halt in my business that I had to figure out, um, as, uh, the primary breadwinner in our family. Um, the other thing was, you know, as I got into my forties, I started noticing. Just the physical burden of the work that I was doing, which I love having a physical job. But, you know, schlepping bags and bins and unearthing closets was starting to take a physical toll. And I think I just started thinking about, um, what the future held for me as an entrepreneur if I could no longer, you know, maybe in my sixties or seventies. I just didn't see myself being able to do the same kind of physical work. Um. So I would say I was open and then the pandemic happened and I \[00:04:00\] had to think really quickly. And um, I had gotten a lot of those, you know, kind of pings for many years from other women, um, specifically home organizers or people in the lifestyle space asking if they could pick my brain. Um, take me to coffee. And so it just occurred to me maybe I can launch a little mini mentorship program. Um, so that was as simple as creating a Calendly link and sending an email saying, I am now opening spots. For mentorship. Um, one-on-one. I did an eight week one-on-one. Um, it sold out instantly from one email. Wow. And I kind of then realized that I was onto something and I really enjoyed it. And so, um, for the first few years I really kept it as like, I'm only gonna take a handful of people each season. And then I just kept. Taking more people. And then it sort of grew from mentoring home organizers and designers to physicians and gynecologists who wanted to start a program or scale something or build something. \[00:05:00\] Um, and the feedback I got was just, you know, I like how you run your business. It's small and it feels doable. Um, can you help me do the same thing? Kris: Wow. That's the, I love how organic that unfolded, you know, and you just, you were really answering the questions that people were asking you, which is like, how are you doing this? Can you help me do this? Can I pick your brain? Um, so after. Spending that amount of time organizing and shifting into mentorship, what are some of the core fundamental pillars or beliefs or strategies that are, are similar between the two types of work? Shira: Hmm. Um, yeah, I love that question because I think I do use a similar framework. Um, so I start with helping people clarify, um, which is always what I did with home organizing. Like before we start moving piles around, let's get really clear on what you want and why you want it. Um, so I start with \[00:06:00\] that lens with, um. Business strategy is like, why do you want a business in the first place? And um, what are your specific goals around that? What might success look like? You know, I mentor people who have a full-time corporate job and just have the idea of having a creative expression. On the weekends. So I literally have one client who sees one home organizing client a month for fun, um, and has a full-time corporate job. So like there's everything from that to people who have been in business for 10 years and are ready to scale in some way or change something or they're burnt out. Um, so I start with that clarity piece and then, um. I would say that editing is certainly the most important piece in my home organizing work. It's like 90%, um, is just removing of clutter. And I think with the coaching it's the same, but it's mental clutter. Um, and so as I'm sure you see a lot of imposter syndrome, um, a lot of false starts and questioning and self-doubting. Um, \[00:07:00\] and so I am, um, a certified life coach. Um, and so I do have some of those skills I can call on to help people with the mental. Um, and then organizing is step three. So I think with business it's like operations and systems and, um, you know, I am not a particularly tech savvy person, so when I am mentoring someone, I share the most ludicrously simple systems that I use that have worked for me, that don't require me. Um, having a deep knowledge of tech. Um, so it's like organizing the inner workings of your business. Um, and, and just like you would organize your things in a home. And then the last piece is elevate. Um, so in a business that's looking at like the aesthetics of, um, your brand and what's forward facing, um, how you want people to feel when they land on your website, what assets you wanna create and invest in. Um, I'm very big into photography and I've worked with the same photographer as a kind of creative collaborator for nearly my whole career. \[00:08:00\] Um, so yeah, it's really thinking about like, now that you have a base and a framework for what you wanna do, how can you optimize, you know, um, the beauty, the aesthetics, the brand so that it really resonates with the right people. Kris: I love it. I love it so much. One of the metaphors I use a lot is that the entrepreneur's brain is like an American garage. It's full of cardboard boxes that are all full of stuff. And as entrepreneurs, we're idea people. We have ideas all the time. We're constantly thinking about our work, our clients, how we solve our problem. But when you walk into the garage. It's hard to really decipher the trash or the clutter from the treasure. Yeah, and so it just all looks overwhelming, which is why it's so hard to do this for yourself, which is why you need. Outside help and support to like clear the clutter literally from your brain and identify, I call them like the golden nuggets or the golden thread of your story. Mm-hmm. \[00:09:00\] And to really nail that clarity. It's often, um, it's often not a, uh, a writing problem, it's a perspective problem. Mm-hmm. When somebody can come in with fresh eyes and really help you, it's kind of like, like. Again, like back to the organizing, it's so often you just need a buddy to kind of hold your hand with you. Totally, totally. Because it can be painful to do it all by yourself, so Yes. Shira: Yeah. I mean, I find most people know what to do, but they have a hard time doing it and having that structure and accountability is like half the battle. Kris: Let's talk a little bit about marketing. So one of the things that, um, I've been in your world a while now. One of the things that I think you do so well is your newsletter. You can tell it's written by you. You can tell the information that you're talking about is top of mind and relevant to you and different from. What other people are talking about because it is from your heart. Tell. Tell us how \[00:10:00\] that newsletter has worked for you, how it came about. Shira: Yeah. Um, I would say, so my newsletter I started, um, when I launched my business 16 years ago, it was kind of my one marketing tool. It was, I guess pre-social media. So, um, it was the one thing I really did religiously and when I started my business, I had a newborn baby, so I really only had the capacity to do that newsletter monthly. Um, but what I found is, you know, originally it was my mom and a handful of friends, and then it's very slowly and organically would grow, and what I would find is every time I would send it. I would get at least one new client inquiry. Um, and I thought, well, that's wild because I don't even feel like I'm marketing. Um, I am just genuinely sharing things that I think might be helpful or valuable. And I think as someone who's like a little bit allergic to sales and marketing, um, I found it was always a very natural, organic way for \[00:11:00\] me. Um. To put myself out there, let people know what I was doing, connect in some way, and if they wanted the help, they knew where to find me. So it was like the least aggressive form of marketing I could think of. Um, and I have continued that newsletter, which, you know, um, once my kids were a little older. Turned into a weekly missive. Um, and I think about a year and a half ago, um, I moved over to Substack. Um, and I just love it. Like it's, it's, it's funny because people ask me like, how do you come up with content? How do you find things to write about every week? And it's almost like my therapy, like I feel like my newsletter is, um. Something I look forward to. I, I mean, it goes out every Tuesday at 5:00 AM I am often writing it Monday night, so I'm not gonna lie about that. Like I don't have a beautiful three month content calendar. Um, but I think the reason it resonates with people is because it literally is like, here's what's on my mind. Here's what I'm \[00:12:00\] working on, here's what I'm thinking about. Here's what's inspiring me. And so it is. Fresh and, um, and real. And then at the bottom of each newsletter, I just have links for how to work with me. And, um, and I, I really do find every time I send that newsletter out, I book business. So, um, it feels really different to me than the like traditional email marketing funnel and the 9 billion sales emails, um, yeah, that I used to do because I thought I had to. Kris: Yep. Yeah, a hundred percent. I think people are these days just over it and repelled by the emails that they can either sense or created by AI or just part of that whole. Predictable funnel where you're, you know, that can be real pushy. Um, and it's so refreshing just to get, you can tell like within five seconds you can tell if an email is truly written by that person or not. Mm-hmm. And you have just been so beautifully studied with that. So Kris: done. I mean, it's such a, it's such a, a simple, but a beautiful reminder at how, how to. To look at an email newsletter or a weekly newsletter or just a weekly letter, um, is probably a better way to put it mm-hmm. To the people that resonate with you. So thank you for delving into that. Shira: Yeah, I mean, and I will say like I just got off the phone with someone who was saying they hate writing newsletters, but they love creating video content and I am terrible with video content. Yeah. And it's horrifying for me. And so I think it really is all about finding the one thing that you really authentically enjoy doing, or it's not gonna be sustainable. Kris: A hundred percent. Speaking of. Posting on Instagram, which is why I reached out to you. Yes. So you wrote a wonderful, uh, letter about quitting Instagram and what that looked like. And I'm a huge fan of quitting Instagram. I mean, I have a presence. I have a presence, but I have strategically taken the. \[00:14:00\] Year off of Instagram. It's still very much works for me's. I kind of turned it into a really powerful sales page that didn't require me to post all the time. Um, so when I got that letter from you, I was like, Ooh, we need to talk about this. So, to tell me about, about your path to, to quote unquote quitting Instagram. Shira: Yes. Um, so Instagram has been very good to me overall. Um, it, you know, I, I think I was there at the right time where growth was possible and. Much easier than it is now. Um, and so for many, many years I enjoyed it. And, um, similar to my newsletter, I felt like I was kind of curating my own magazine and sharing things that I loved and connecting with people, um, until I stopped enjoying it. And I think that has been in the past few years as the climate of Instagram has changed. Um. Pretty profoundly. I started feeling like all that I'm seeing is, um, products and ads \[00:15:00\] and, um, terrible news. And it was not a place that felt pleasant or creative to me anymore. Um, I felt like I was just wanting to get out of there and, um, I also, I had hit 110,000 followers and. Was just kind of stuck there and I found whether I, um, you know, spent hours creating a reel or didn't, nothing happened. So I was like, what am I doing with my time? If this is not actually having like a cause and an effect, um, I am just, you know, like. Toiling away trying to figure out the algorithm and put the right video and it's not feeling good or authentic. And so I was, um, I was out of the country traveling with my brother and I had plenty of time. We were lying in Greece and I was just sort of daydreaming and I had this weird, um, vision of like just turning my Instagram into. Kind of like a digital business card or \[00:16:00\] the homepage of a website. And you know, I'm such an editor and I like getting rid of clutter. And so what I started with was going all the way back into the archives where I realized there were pictures of my children and. I don't share pictures of my children anymore. And so that was really easy. I was just like, delete, delete, delete. But then I was like, well, what's this? And this isn't relevant, and I wouldn't post this anymore. And so I just kept deleting and archiving until there was almost nothing left. Um, and then what I did is I kind of. Reposted, I think it was 12, um, specific posts that essentially said, here's who I am and what I do, here's what I care about and what I offer. And, um, showcased my three books. And I just thought, now if someone lands on my. Instagram, they can very easily figure out what's going on here, how they can work with me, how they can buy my books or join my substack without me constantly trying to create content. Um, and so I basically just wiped everything out, started fresh \[00:17:00\] and um, what was really fascinating is nothing happened. Like I stopped posting completely. I stayed at 110,000 followers. Like I didn't lose followers, I didn't gain, but that's pretty much where I was at anyway. Right. Um, and I felt like it just really helped me kind of reclaim my mental health around social media. I felt like now it's optional for me. Um, I do still enjoy Instagram stories. Um, I travel a lot and I do really enjoy like sharing travel or packing content. Um, but again, it's now like I do it on my own terms. Right. Um, and I don't feel any need to be kind of a slave to the algorithm. Kris: Oh my gosh. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Freedom. You know when, when somebody owns their own business, pretty much everybody I talk to feels this sense that they have to be on Instagram and they, not only that, they have to be posting all the time and it's so time consuming. It takes so much energy and it very \[00:18:00\] rarely, um, actually gets. You results. And I think it's this belief that everybody has really adopted that we need to question, uh, we really need to question is this where I should be spending my energy? Um, when I came up with my approach, which I call the Freedom 15, so my, my whole thing is like, how do we use story to do the heavy lifting for you and to get you clients? And so I broke, I broke it down to 15 posts. That you need. And pretty much all of those posts relate back to a part of your story. Mm-hmm. And it's anything from like the problem that you solve, the benefit that you create, why this matters to you so much, what do you want people to do? What's your main call to action? So much of that is. Not present in a lot of people's posts. And so what I ended up doing was I tried it on myself first, and now I do it for all my clients. But, um, I, I mapped out the 15 posts that I knew I needed \[00:19:00\] and then I uploaded those and I left the thousands of other posts that I had there previously. And I was like, oh, I'm not gonna delete everything. I mean, there, there's gotta be, you know, there's gotta be some good stuff in here. And it's. You know, years of posting. And then I did a little bit of an audit where I looked at the 15 posts and I knew what was on those. And then I scrolled down all my other posts and there was nothing from the past that wasn't currently addressed in the 15. Yeah. And so I deleted all of 'em and it was so freeing and so wonderful, and I've never, ever looked back. Shira: I love that. Yeah. I mean, what I have found, um, you know, it's so business dependent with Instagram because I, for most of my career was a small local business. And I live in the San Francisco Bay area. So the people that I needed to find me were people who lived, you know, 15 minutes from my house. And the people that found me on Instagram lived in Australia often. \[00:20:00\] Right. And so. For me, it ended up being a way of growing my brand and exposure. And ultimately when I had books, it was helpful, um, and it was helpful for connecting with other entrepreneurs or editors, but I really wasn't booking direct business from Instagram. And so that's what I tell founders often. Like, really look at what you're. Businesses and does this even make sense or would a different type of platform or networking or marketing make a lot more sense? Kris: Right? Right. I mean, you have to do something to let people learn about you and find out about you, but does it have to be social media? Not if you don't want it to be. There are all kinds of other ways like that. Podcast guesting is a really fun one that I've done for my own business where I just show up. I get to talk about what I love and get to introduce to other people's audiences and there's just all kinds of, um, other options if you're not feeling the social media path. Shira: Yeah, a hundred percent. I always say just pick one thing, but does it have to be Instagram? Absolutely not. \[00:21:00\] Kris: Right, right. So true. So let's get back into the mentorship work that you've done. Tell us a story about a client that you worked with and what happened for her. What were they struggling with and kind of where did they end up after the eight weeks? Shira: Okay. Um, well there's, they fall into such different categories, but I'll give you one. Um, 'cause I told you about the corporate client who just was like, I kind of wanna be an organizer, but I actually love my corporate job. So she, and she really like, created a website and a brand and the whole thing. And just for years now, sees one client a month and it's thrilling for her. So that was one story that I just kind of loved because it was so on her own terms, right. And exactly the way she wanted to run her business. Um, but another one is, um, I worked with an organizer who was mainly working for other people. Um, as a contractor and really wanted to have her own business. And, um, and what we found kind of through like the inquiry \[00:22:00\] coaching process was she actually didn't enjoy organizing. And so she thought she did, but. When I asked like, what are the parts of the business that you love? It all ended up being styling. And she hated decluttering. She hated like being on her hands and knees, going through people's dusty boxes. And what she loved was actually the kind of cherry on top elevate phase where it's like bringing in plants or art or bins or baskets. And so for her, um, you know, in that eight week period, we, we used her existing website. We changed her services and her offerings to reflect what she actually enjoyed doing, um, which was styling. And so she created a cool niche for herself because, um, typically when people want help in their homes, that's not organizing. It's like full service design, which can be very cost prohibitive. And so we put together a program for her that was basically like. Do you want someone to come in and use what you already have and just ju and then maybe bring \[00:23:00\] in a few elevated essentials? And so, um, so she's in LA and she's been doing it now for years and basically was able to like. Edit the parts of the business she didn't enjoy. Shira: really lean into what she loved and create a whole different type of business. Shira: own business. Exactly. Yeah. It's just so funny sometimes how, like, just asking questions, well uncover, you know, like, I was like, well, what do you love about organizing? And she just kind of froze and was like, I don't, I don't love it. Kris: I mean that that is the power of having somebody come in and hold your hand and a thought partner with a fresh perspective and a few questions. Yes. Like it's just, it's quite profound what can happen. Yes. The clarity. Yeah. Kris: Alright, so I'm gonna wrap up with three lightning round questions. So what is one thing you wish everyone would edit from their business today? Shira: Imposter Central. Uh. \[00:24:00\] Yes. That is so good. I just think it, there's no, um, upside to imposter syndrome and I've worked with some wildly brilliant and talented people and everybody has it, but it doesn't seem to be serving anyone. Kris: No, uh, really everybody has it. It doesn't matter at what level and it's just not useful at all. Um, tell us the habit or boundary that protects your creativity. Shira: Hmm. I take myself on a, um, solo retreat every quarter. It used to be every year. And then I enjoyed it so much. I was like, I'm gonna just keep leaving. So, um, so my, my kids, my family know once a quarter, um, I book myself. It's just one night, but it's two full days. At my, um, favorite resort and spa, um, that has a beautiful mineral pool and delicious food. And I get a private room and I just come with my \[00:25:00\] computer and some books and I'm just completely alone. And, um, I just like to do that every season to kind of think about my business, do a little audit of like what's working, what's not, what's energizing me, what's not. Um, and I just find something about being away from my familiar environment and daily routines, um, is. Just invaluable, um, you know, for the cost of like one night at a hotel, right? Kris: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I am so glad I asked that question. It's my favorite thing. It's, that's really incredible. And how lovely to give people the idea and the permission to do it. Right. It's not a selfish thing. I. I'm gonna start doing that number one. Yes. Um, I have done it one time before where I just got away alone. I went to my favorite hotel, which is kind of in the wine country of, uh, right outside of Portland and Umhmm. Uh, everything that I do today, like my core offer, the work that I do, I only have one offer \[00:26:00\] was born from that 24 hour period. Wow. I just realized it. I just realized it right now. But yeah, it's the key Kris: yourself. Yeah. Instagram leave every quarter. That's right. And get rid of Kris: Okay. One more. What is a recent Less is more decision that made your life instantly better? Shira: Hmm. I mean, probably my quiet quitting of Instagram. Um, if I'm honest, like that was something that really was. Creating a lot of digital and mental clutter for me and was, took me years to feel like I could, um, let go of. Um, but it really has created so much more spaciousness. Um, so I highly recommend it. Yeah. Kris: Yeah. It's kind, it's a lot like that feeling of like. In college or in school when there's always like a term paper, there's always homework, right? The minute you finish one term paper, \[00:27:00\] there's another one do or a final coming up. And I feel like Instagram gave me that feeling as well. Like it was a perpetual homework that never, that I never finished with. And um, and yeah, what a gift to just not have to do it. Unless you're inspired. Right. Exactly. On your own terms. On your own terms. Alright, Shera, thank you so much for being here today. Tell us where we can find you. Shira: Okay. Yeah. Thank you. This was so fun. Um, people can find me. My website is shera gill.com. Um, I have a free substack called the Life Edit, um, which has a really fun global community, people from 150 countries around the world, um, that are interested in doing more with less. Um, so that's where I spend most of my time online. And then I have, um, three books out, minimalist Organized Living and Lifestyle. Kris: Oh my gosh. You got a lot going on. It's so inspiring. Well, thank you again for being here. It's been such a joy. Thank you so much. Is your website turning away Potential clients? \[00:28:00\] I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/client-transformation-spotlight-ginger ### Title: Client Transformation Spotlight >> Ginger ### Page ID: 8548121 ### Content: ## Ever felt like you're so deep inside your business that you can't see it clearly anymore? ## "Now people go to my website and sign up for my community all by themselves! ##  I feel so much more on top of it, so much more confident when I say who I am and what I do. I can reach more people with less effort because they can easily understand the problem I solve." #### \-Ginger Myers, Coach **That's where Shardul was. He knew he needed a strategic approach to his website, but every time he tried to tackle it himself, he'd get frustrated.** **"I was definitely not being succinct with my wording because I have so many ideas,"** she told me. **"Even though I had lots of good things to say, I wasn't feeling like I was connecting."** The result? Every time she directed someone to her website, she'd internally eye-roll. She knew it wasn't doing its job. Then we went through my Signature Story-Selling System together. At networking events and coffee meetings, she could finally explain what she does in a way that sparked real conversations instead of confused looks. Now people visit her site and sign up for her community all by themselves. "It is the most awesome thing," she said. No more rambling explanations that lose people halfway through. Her message connects quickly and clearly. But the biggest shift? Her confidence. **"I feel so much more on top of it, so much more confident when I say who I am and what I do."** The best part? Ginger loved how collaborative the process was. This wasn't me handing her a take-it-or-leave-it masterpiece. We worked together to make sure every word felt authentic to her voice. If you're tired of explaining your business in ways that don't quite land, let's change that. Book a [**Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call) with me, and let's uncover the clarity that's been hiding in all those good ideas you have. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/website-traps-costing-you-clients ### Title: 5 Website Traps Costing You Clients ### Page ID: 8580733 ### Content: I need to tell you something that might sting a little. ? Your website could be losing you clients every single week. Not because it's ugly. Not because you're bad at marketing. But because it's fallen into one of five invisible traps that push people away before they ever reach out. I've seen it happen over and over. A coach or consultant with real expertise and a site that looks perfectly fine. But the leads just don't come. **In this week's episode, I'm pulling back the curtain on:** ? The "bottle effect" that makes writing about yourself almost impossible ? Why adding more pages actually hurts your credibility ? The testimonial mistake that wastes your best social proof Here's the good news. Once you see these traps, you can fix them. And your website can finally start doing its job: selling for you while you sleep. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Speaker: You paid for a website. Maybe you hired a designer or a copywriter, and you're still not getting clients from it. Most coaches and consultants I talk to have websites that look perfectly fine, but those sites aren't actually bringing in business. Here's the frustrating part. It's not because you're bad at marketing and it's not because you're not good at what you do. Your website has fallen into one of the five invisible traps, and these traps push potential clients away before they even reach out to you. These traps cost you real money. Every week. People who need what you offer land on your site, they get confused, they feel disconnected, they get overwhelmed. They click away to a \[00:01:00\] competitor. Not because the competitor is better, but because their website made it easier to move forward. In this video, I'm breaking down the five website traps that kill a coaching business every single day. And I'm gonna show you exactly how to fix each one. By the end, you'll audit your own website. You'll identify which traps you've fallen into, and you'll know exactly what to change so your site can do its job. Sell for you. Let's get into it. Okay. The big question is why does this matter so much? Your website is usually the first impression a potential client has of you. You might crush it at networking events. You might nail discovery calls. You might even get great referrals, but if somebody Googles you afterward and lands on a confusing or generic website, I've seen coaches lose five figure clients because their website made them look less credible than they actually were. Here's the truth. Your website either works for \[00:02:00\] you 24 7, or it works against you 24 7. There is no neutral. So let's make sure yours is working for you and here are the five traps. The first trap is the Brochure Trap. It's when your website is a digital business card. It exists, it has your info, but it's not actually converting visitors. It's just sitting there online, like a bump on a log. You may have built it using Squarespace or Wix. You picked a pretty template. You uploaded your headshot, You filled in the blanks and called it done. The problem. Website builders create online brochures, not client converting machines. Here's why this is dangerous. It feels like you've checked the box. I have a website. But having a website and having a website that that's working for you are two completely different things. The real cost isn't your monthly subscription. It's the revenue you leave on the table every day your brochure \[00:03:00\] website fails to connect with ideal clients. How do you know you're in this trap? You know, because your website hasn't been updated in over a year. You built it quickly to have something up. You've never thought about the strategy behind what goes where. And you secretly hope people don't visit your website before talking to you. So here's the fix stop thinking of your website as a place to store information online. Start thinking of it as your hardest working sales employee. One, needing a clear script, a specific audience, and a job to do. Your website should work while you sleep. It should build trust and book calls without you lifting one finger. Okay, let's get into trap number two. Trap number two. I call the Copy Struggle Trap. You know, what you do is valuable, but you have a hard time putting it into simple and clear words when you're talking to potential clients. You've spent hours staring at a blank screen trying to \[00:04:00\] write your homepage. You've rewritten your about page 17 times. It still just doesn't feel right. So why does this happen? There are two forces at work against you, what I call the bottle effect and the curse of knowledge,For the bottle effect, I want you to picture trying to read a label of the bottle while you're inside it. You can't see it clearly. No matter how hard you try. Writing about your own business can feel the same way. You're just too close. You're literally. In the bottle trying to read that label. That can only be read from outside. And then you've got the curse of knowledge also working against you. Once you become an expert. You know, you've been doing this work for quite a while. You've forgotten what it's like to not know what you know. So you end up using industry jargon. You overexplain or you skip the basics because they just seem really obvious to you. So what does this look like in the real world? Your copy sounds like everyone else in your industry. You use words like transformation, \[00:05:00\] holistic, empower words, meaning, everything, and nothing at the same time. Potential clients read your website and still don't understand what you do. In fact, they might even feel stupid because they don't understand the industry lingo that you're using. It's just not simpleand clear. So here's the fix. Stop trying to write about yourself by yourself. Your story needs to be mined out of you Not manufactured or created by somebody else. It's inside of you. It's in your head, it's in your heart, and you need somebody to help you pull that story out of you. Mining for that gold of your story always requires an outside perspective and ideally an expert in storytelling. Find someone who can ask the right question and see the gold you've been sitting on without realizing it. Even if you don't work with me, find somebody outside of the bottle for you, a colleague, a coach, a strategist. The words are already \[00:06:00\] in there. They're already inside of you. You just need help getting them out. You need help clearing the clutter, clearing the noise, and honing in on the golden thread that is your story. Okay. Trap number three is The Hero Trap. This might be the deadliest trap of all. You try to impress potential clients by making your website all about you, your credentials, your certifications, your methodology, your years of experience, your background story. You become the hero of your own website. Now, why is this a problem? Your potential clients aren't looking for a hero. They're looking for a guide. Think about Star Wars. Luke is the hero. Yoda is the guide. Yoda never talks about how many Jedi he's trained. He never talks about his credentials. He focuses entirely on Luke's journey. Luke's transformation is his top priority. And your website should work the same way your client is luke, you are Yoda. \[00:07:00\] How do you know you've fallen into this trap? Your homepage starts with Welcome to, or I am Kris Jones. And I, so that's a, a hint to kinda let you know you're probably the hero of your own story. Your about page is a chronological history of your career. You lead with credentials before addressing what your clients are struggling with. There's more I and me language than you language. So here is the fix. We're gonna flip that script. We're gonna open with their problem, not your bio. Show them you understand what they're going through before you talk about yourself. When you do talk about yourself, frame it as I understand because, and that's empathy, right? When you say, I understand because fill in the blank, your empathy comes through and I've helped others like you. That's your authority. Empathy, and authority are The two key ways that you can show up as the guide. Your experience does \[00:08:00\] matter, but only in the context of how it helps them succeed. Remember your Yoda, they are Luke. The story is about their transformation, not your resume. Trap number four, I call. The More is More Trap. This happens when you believe a professional website needs a lot of pages. The more pages, the more credible you are. This is not true anymore. I'm a big believer in the one page website. I can't tell you how many websites I go to that have eight different pages in the upper navigation menu and their dropdown menus. What this does is it sends your visitors on a scavenger hunt. They have to go from page to page to page to figure out if you're the right one for them. For example, you might have an about page, a services page, a resources page, a blog page, an FAQ page, a testimonials page, a contact page. More pages does not mean more credibility, and here's why. This actually ends up hurting you. Every additional \[00:09:00\] page is a hurdle between somebody landing on your site and somebody booking a call with you. There's a psychological phenomenon called decision fatigue. Our brains have limited decision making energy each day.When a visitor decides which page to click, which service to read about which blog posts might be relevant, they burn mental energy. Energy meant for one decision whether to book a call with you or whether to not book a call with you. Confused people don't buy. They think I'll come back when I have more brain space, when I have more time to read this blog article. But ultimately they never come back. So what's the fix? You don't need more pages. You need one clear story that converts visitors. And this entire story happens on your homepage. It all belongs right there on your homepage. A single scrollable experience, building trust, and guiding them to action as they scroll down the page. Think about how you scroll when you're on your phone. It's \[00:10:00\] natural, it's effortless. You hold your phone and you just do this motion with your finger. Now think about clicking to another page. You have to go up to that upper right hand little menu. There are three lines there. You click on that you, there's a dropdown menu. You find the page, you move to that page. Oops. You wanna go back a page? You can't figure out how to go back. It's clunky. It is friction. People will end up bailing before they go on a scavenger hunt on your website. The easier you make it to learn about you, the faster they begin to trust you. So simplify one page, one story, one clear path to working with you. Now, this does not mean you only have to have one page, but keep your upper navigation to a minimum. A minimum. I mean one, two, or three pages tops. If you have any other pages, move them into the footer navigation menu. Get them out of the way so the visitor has a very clear path through the website. Okay, trap number five. This is the \[00:11:00\] final trap. I call it the Weak Proof Trap. This happens when you have testimonials on your website, but they're not doing their job. They say things like, "Jane's amazing. So professional and knowledgeable. I loved working with her." Praise. Doesn't sell. Transformation sells. So why don't these testimonials work? Potential clients aren't asking. If a person is kind, they're asking, will this work for me? A testimonial saying she's so great to work with, tells them nothing about what's possible for them. But a testimonial saying, "*Before working with her, I was drowning in financial stress.* *Now I have complete clarity about my numbersAnd peace of mind knowing I'm on track to retire early*." That kind of testimonial tells a story. I'm gonna repeat it one more time. So this is really for a financial coach or a financial consultant, right? This is an example, testimonial. *"Before working with Jane, I was drowning in financial stress. Now I have complete clarity about my numbers* \[00:12:00\] *and peace of mind knowing that I'm on track to retire early."* That tells the story that they can actually see themselves in. So what makes a good testimonial convert? It needs a clear before, what were they struggling with before they worked with you? And it needs a clear after what changed for them after working with you. It needs to be short and scannable, about three sentences max and it needs to have a real photo of your client with their permission of course. So three sentences. Make sure the font is big enough to read. I can't tell you how many long paragraph testimonials I see. And in order for them to fit on the page, the font has to be reduced down to like an eight point font. Nobody can read a tiny font on the web, so shorten them. One to three sentences max. Make the font big enough and include a photo of your client that will make it way more believable. So where should your testimonials go? Don't bury them on a \[00:13:00\] testimonial page that nobody will visit. Integrate them onto your homepage. Sprinkle them throughout the site so you can be sure they don't get missed. You can be strategic about this. Ifthey're about to click on your call to action, they're gonna have a little hesitation, and you wanna pair that with a strong testimonial that reassures them that you have solved this problem before. Testimonials are proof. Proof should show up exactly when someone decides whether to trust you. So integrate those testimonials throughout the page. Okay. Let's bring it all together with a recap. What are the five traps? trap number one, the brochure trap, treating your website like a business card instead of a sales person. Trap number two, the copy struggle trap, trying to write about yourself while stuck inside the bottle. Trap number three, the hero trap. Making your story all about you instead of about your hero. A k, a, your client Trap number four, the more is more trap. Overwhelming \[00:14:00\] people with multiple pages than your upper navigation instead of guiding them through one clear journey. Trap number five, the weak proof trap, using praise instead of transformation in your testimonials. So what should you do if you're stuck in one of these traps? First, don't panic. Almost every coach and consultant I work with has fallen into at least two or three of these. You are not behind. You are not alone, and you didn't know it's no big deal. We can fix it. All of these are fixable once you're aware of them. If you want help identifying exactly which trap your website has fallen into, book a free money making messaging call with me. We will look at your website together and map out a plan.I would love to help you turn your website into something that actually works for you. Remember, your website should be your hardest working sales employee. It should be attracting the right clients. It should be building trust before you even get on a call. It should be doing the selling for you \[00:15:00\] so you can focus on the work that you love.If your website isn't doing this right now, it's not because you're not good at what you do, it's just because nobody has taught you this stuff. You're a great coach and you deserve to find the right clients. So now, you know, go check your website, find out what trap you're falling into and if you want help getting it back on track, I'm here Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/ditch-burnout-build-freedom-kym-tolson ### Title: How to Ditch Burnout & Build Freedom with Kym Tolson ### Page ID: 8597903 ### Content: How to Ditch Burnout & Build Freedom with Kym Tolson Ever feel like you're stuck in a cycle of work, burnout, vacation, repeat? I just interviewed someone who broke that pattern completely. **Kym Tolson**, known as The Traveling Therapist, went from burnt-out clinician to living full-time in Airbnbs across the globe. And she's running 15 income streams while she does it. ? The moment everything shifted (it happened in a hotel room in Mexico) ? How to spot your scalable niche using what clients already tell you ⏰ A simple time study that revealed where she was wasting hours If you've ever wondered what it would look like to build a business that actually works for your life, this conversation will open your eyes. How to Ditch Burnout & Build Freedom with Kym Tolson Kris: \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. I am so thrilled to have you here today, and I'm excited to really talk about how to think outside the box as far as income streams go, as far as lifestyle goes, as far as really bringing more freedom. Into our lives, right? Yes. This is your jam. Yes. This is your jam. Yeah. I have been so looking forward to this conversation, so thank you. Kym: So, I'm Kim Tolson. I'm a licensed clinical social worker. I'm also known as the traveling therapist. So I, I basically live in Airbnbs with my boyfriend and I used to take about. Eight weeks of \[00:01:00\] vacation a year and I would go take a vacation. 'cause I love to travel. I would take a vacation and then I would. Come back, I'd cram in all my clients and then I'd get so burned out that I'd need another vacation, and then I would just, it was like rinse and repeat. So finally I figured out in 2018 I could go all online and that literally changed everything. So I decided, my boyfriend decided, we decided we're gonna like sell everything and we're just gonna. Move and we moved to Florida and we stayed down in Florida for about two years and they were, we were like, we're just like renting a place, let's just live in Airbnbs. So from there we just did it. We've got some stuff in a storage unit. We don't own anything except for our cars and we just, we live in Airbnbs now and hard part of that evolved into me teaching. Therapist how to do the same thing, how to develop portable practices so they could live the same life because it's, you know, it gives me so much freedom and so much fun. And, you know, that's part of my story. Yeah. Kris: Oh my gosh. That's huge. I think it's such a paradigm shift even to hear you talking about what you're doing. Thank I, yeah. In, in the best way. And this happened in 2018, so this was. \[00:02:00\] Wait, be before COVID. I think a lot of people, yeah, recognized the freedom of working online around 20 20, 20 21. But you were a pioneer. You were ahead of your time on this. Kym: Yeah, I mean, I was sitting in a hotel room in Mexico and I stumbled upon a Facebook group called The Online Therapist Group by Amber Leida, Dr. Amber Leida, and everybody in this group was already working online. And then I was like, wait a second. I literally, I remembered so vividly sitting in that hotel room. I'm like, wait a minute. I could actually live in Mexico if I wanted to and still see my clients and make money and all of that. Kris: Oh my gosh. Okay, so what, what was the first adventure that you went on or the first kind of inaugural trip? Kym: Oh my gosh. Well, it's, it's no longer trips anymore. 'cause literally we moved like every two weeks just from place to place. Um, but the first place was Hollywood, Florida. We'd never been there. It was, it's right above Miami. Ocean front condo, we. Planted ourselves there. We were like, we dunno how long we're gonna be here. But then COVID ended up hitting, so it's kind of a long story, but COVID ended up hitting, so we kind of got stuck there for a \[00:03:00\] little bit. But what better place to be stranded than Hollywood? Florida oceanfront condo. I mean, it's like, you know, south Beach basically, if you're familiar with the blue water and everything, it was amazing. Um, and then another really cool thing we did, we lived in the Dominican Republic for four months, so we rented, we just hopped around the Dominican Republic. Rented Ocean front Airbnbs and did that and worked remotely and that was amazing. And um, I mean we've been so many places. We've been back and forth to the United States I think four times now. We've literally just like all the places we've missed the time before we went. We go there now, we're already planning like April through June, we're probably gonna do it again, like trek back across the United States. Kris: What were your top three? Cities when traveling the us Kym: Oh my gosh. Lake Tahoe. I, I, is that a city? I don't even know if that's a city, but Lake Tahoe park City, Utah. Love that. Hollywood continues to be a favorite. Like when we left Hollywood, we were like, okay, we need to get out in like. Explore the world or whatever, but we keep ending up back down in South Florida, especially in the \[00:04:00\] winter, so love that. So those are probably my top, top three, but I mean just Montana, Yellowstone, all the national parks we've been to, it's just the list goes on and on. Yeah. Taking your business online. I know clients are probably pretty comfortable with it now, but back when you started, was there any pushback? Did you have to overcome objections? Like how did that transition go for you? Kym: As a therapist, we are bound by licensing rules and regulations, right? So the states used to not allow you to be outside of the state when you saw your clients, even when it was telehealth that you were doing. There used to be a lot of regulations around that. Now most of them allow you to be out but you still have to check. Each state that you're sitting in, you've gotta check their licensing regulations and you've gotta check your licensing regulations. And then if you're out of the country, it's a whole other thing. And if you wanna be insurance based, which a lot of therapists wanna be, there's also rules around the insurance companies and where they allow the clinician to be sitting when you're delivering services, even if it's telehealth session. So figuring out all those \[00:05:00\] nuances is. Really complicated, you know, and then there's liability insurance you have to worry about. And it's just, it goes on and on. And then if you wanna become a coach like me, that gets more complicated. Um, you know, so I see some clients, I have very few therapy clients anymore, and then I have these other income streams that I've developed that I'm a coach. So you have to figure out the nuances around that. Like, how do I do coaching without it being therapy? It, you know? 'cause you don't wanna offer anything. Therapy services if you're doing coaching services. So that's a whole other nuance that just like, you know, licensed professionals have to really think about if you wanna like grow outside of the box of like that traditional job that you're doing under your licensure. Kris: Tell, tell us about that journey from therapist to coach and how did that just become a thing for you? Kym: Oh my gosh, it's such a story. Oh, and I'm, I'm what they call like a quick start, right? So if I get an idea, I'm like obsessed with like putting it out into the world. So right now I have about 15 income streams and they've all grown out of, uh. Passion I've had, or \[00:06:00\] a problem that I've had that I then felt passionate about trying to teach other therapists really how to do it. So the initial one was insurance billing. Once I decided I wanted to be all online and all over the world, I quickly realized I was on all these insurance panels and they had really strict rules about telehealth, especially back in 2018. So as I'm learning this, I'm like, okay, well I'm gonna start a Facebook group. I'm gonna start a course, I'm gonna start a membership. So I have a membership. You know now that was born out of that problem of how do we figure this out? And I also had really bad billers at the time that it's such a long story. They ended up like firing me because I was trying to learn how to do my own billing. So I had to learn how to do my own billing. And all of that evolved into this thing of like, I've gotta teach other therapists how to do this now too. 'cause I don't want them to be stuck like I was in these problems. And then the traveling therapist was born the same way. It was very similar. It was like, okay, I'm doing this, like I'm running into this problem, this problem, this problem. So let me start a podcast. I started the podcast and then out of that came a course and you know, a Facebook group. We've got like 28,000 members in the Facebook group now, and oh my gosh, just everybody in there \[00:07:00\] is figuring this thing out together. It's really, it's like a movement now. The traveling therapist and then ai. Obsessed with ai. The day chat PT came out, I was like, I was already using AI in other capacities, but when Chacha BT came out, I was like, this is gonna change the world for everybody, including therapists. If therapists knew that they could use these automations or chat PT to help with this, and this, their lives are gonna be so much easier. They're not gonna have to burn out. They can go live in other countries and actually sustain this lifestyle, you know, 'cause there's so much administrative work. Being a therapist besides seeing your clients. So AI came out and I got obsessed with it. I'm still obsessed with it. So I started a Facebook group and a podcast and you know, I have two memberships now for ai to help other, to help other. Therapists learn how to be able to do all of this and make their lives easier. Really, the bottom line is I don't want therapists to burn out. I want them to have really fulfilling lives now and not wait until they're retired and totally burned out. Kris: Right. Oh my gosh. Okay, so tell me some ways that you're using AI and helping other people use ai. Oh my goodness. To \[00:08:00\] totally. Give you your time back or make your life easier or uplevel your practice. Kym: Well, one really cool thing is in my journey with ai, I got connected with a company called Hey Barry, and I'm now their clinical consultant for product development. Um, and we, they always say, say we, you're part of this company. Now we. It's a HIPAA compliant AI platform, so it helps therapists be able to write progress notes and treatment plans. And, um, we've got a HIPAA compliant AI bot in there that you can consult with and be like, what, what interventions am I missing with this client? Any ideas? And the bot comes back and reads the notes and the treatment plan says, you know, have you thought about the fact that their dog died? Three months ago, and maybe they're grieving, you haven't talked about that at all, right? This assistant like works with you inside of this HIPAA compliant platform. So that's one way. Um, and then one of my memberships, like every month I just give them a new AI tool that I'm using in my own life, in my practice, my business that's making, you know, my life easier. Like, there's one called Manis. Manus is amazing. Manus Dot, IM, if anybody's into ai you can tell it to make you a \[00:09:00\] website. You can tell it to make you a web app that you can sell, you can use as lead magnets for products that you're doing. And it whips these things up in about 10 seconds. And it's. Incredible. And it, it just, it just changes. It's gonna change the world, but products and web design and graphics and all of that. So that was the topic this month inside of the clinical AI club is how do we use Manus to do all this stuff, especially if you wanna scale out of the one-to-one as a therapist. So tools like that. Every month I've got a new thing learning about and teaching them about how to build custom GPTs and all of that. And then the Thera AI hub, I found that therapists were so busy they didn't know how to use these tools or they didn't wanna learn how to use these tools that I was teaching in the clinical AI club. So I was like, okay, I need to build out a hub with all the prebuilt tools so the therapists can just hop in there and use the tools to like, write their Psychology Today profile or, um. You know, build a social media content creation campaign for the next 30 days. Or, uh, give your website a scam with s se for SEO mistakes that you might be making. I've got another tool in there that writes their newsletters for them. You know, it's \[00:10:00\] like I've 35 plus tools I've built out already in there. Um. I don't know if that answers your question, but there's lots of ways I'm teaching them to use it and I use it in my own life, so it's really fun for me. Kris: So you, you use Manus to create apps that they can then go into like a portal and use, have access to all those. Kym: Exactly. Yep. They're like micro apps and they solve a problem that the therapist is having, like Nancy, the newsletter generator is what I call it. The one I just put in there the other day. There is another one that's marked the marketing consultant and basically takes your website and a little blurb about you and does like a SWOT analysis with your competitors. Um, and about 10 other functions in there. It's just incredible. It goes out and actually searches in real time for, underserved populations and your zip code. So, and, and then it gives you like a marketing plan with how to work with that population that needs help, like that kind of thing. Kym: So yeah, that's just two of the tools. There's so many, Kris: it's just my mind is really blown right now. So tell me, a lot of the people listening here \[00:11:00\] are service providers, coaches, therapists. They work one-on-one. So tell us how you recommend people begin to scale Moving outta that one-on-one. Kym: Okay. Yes. Every one of us. Has like the, that thing that your, all your clients say the same thing to you over and over again. They say, this is my problem. And then you start to hear it echoing, right? And it's like, okay, I feel like I've answered this question about a thousand times. Right? Yep. So everybody can relate to that. If you're listening and you're like, oh yeah, my clients always say this, this and this. That is usually the first clue that you can scale with that problem that they're talking about over and over and over again. So I recommend listening or. Just thinking about what have I heard over the years with my clients and how can I scale this? And AI's really good with that. Like I've built out tools for the therapist to be able to just go in and take that thing that whispers over and over and over again. Put it into the niche finder that helps you decide how to scale this little tool I built. You put it in, it says, here's your niche and here's how you can scale that out into the world. And you can use AI for that. Anybody listening, you can literally go put it in and it's gonna give you a \[00:12:00\] thousand ideas. And then. Read through them are, are one of these things that AI suggesting something that I actually could do. You know? And then once you do that, you know, meet up with a coach or somebody that could help you scale, or you could even use AI to help you scale these days so quickly to say, oh gosh, okay, I've got this problem that I hear over and over again. It sounds like a course would be great for that. Let me go over to AI and just get an outline for a course. And that takes about three seconds with AI these days. Ask it to help you. Build it out. Build it out. Go pop it in a Learn Worlds or wherever you want to host it. Karras, where I host all my stuff. Go put it over there and you've got a course, and then figure out what does your audience need around the course? Do they want like, um. Like an hour of coaching each month to help you like implement the materials that they're learning in the course. Really analyze your audience and figure out what they need. And for there it'll grow. You build then you start building your list and funnels and email nurture sequences and all that stuff that comes with it. But that's where it starts finding that thing. I do always tell my own coaching clients make sure it's something you're super passionate about that you'd probably wanna talk about for the next 10 years if you had to, \[00:13:00\] because it's a bit of a commitment, right? To scale into other, industries or other like. Like models because you're really picking this one little niche and then you're going all in with it. So you really need to be committed to it for quite some time to see it grow and be able to sell it and make money from it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kris: I love what you shared about really listening to what you hear over and over again from potential clients or clients, people you talk to, and honing in on that one problem. I mean, I think that, that that can be really hard. For a lot of entrepreneurs because we often solve a lot of problems, and my advice is always, you're gonna have to pick one. Yeah. Yes. Like to on-ramp. Everybody, once they're in your world, right, you can solve a lot more for them, but we have to pick that one on-ramps for them to come into our world and then they're gonna get all the goodness. But exactly. If you solve too many things. People, they just don't get it. They, our brains just wanna hold on to that one thing. So I think that's really \[00:14:00\] powerful. Tell me a, a story about one of your favorite clients that you've worked with, or one of your favorite students. What, where were they when they came to you? What was going on and what happened for them through working with you? Kym: Oh my gosh. Oh, there's so many stories like this. I, you know, I, I. Mostly it's, well, I can think of this one, right? She's a single mom she had in Vira. She wanted to have a kid so bad, had the kid without a father involved at all, was really struggling with the one-to-one decided to scale. So she's scaled into, she's got courses now. She's got a podcast. She's maybe seeing like five clients. A week now. But the big thing was she's like, I just wanna move to Spain, like Portugal or Spain, like she was obsessed with it. So we started with a full caseload, insurance based. Eventually we figured out she had to get off the insurance panel. So we figured out how to do that, and then she figured out that one problem that we're talking about, she decided how am I gonna scale it? Just like I was saying. And then she and her son have just now moved and relocated to Portugal and they're living there now. Oceanside \[00:15:00\] in Portugal. And she's like living. The absolute dream just by being able to scale like that. I think her niche now, I think is like Neurodiverse, neurodiverse mother, single Mothers is what her like little elevator pitch is right now. Wow. Oh my gosh. And it's working, you know, she's got her, she's got time back because she's able to scale. To that, larger model where she's not just doing this one-to-one, like locked into that one-to-one model where you've gotta see 40 clients a week to make enough money to live. And then she didn't get to see her kid at all that her mother was, watching the kid more. But now she's able to scale and do these group coaching sessions and live in Portugal and has her sun with her and all that. And it's just, it's an amazing story. I had her on my podcast telling the story. It was really cool. Kris: Oh, I wanna hear that. I really wanna hear that. And so she can live in Portugal and, and coach anyone in the whole wide world. There's no limitations with that. I mean, there's probably, probably groundwork that you have to do, but um, Kym: absolutely, you've gotta check with Portugal, you've gotta, usually get like an immigration lawyer involved. You've gotta learn about \[00:16:00\] visas, the right type of visa for you. You have to have a certain amount of money saved up to be able to even move to another country. You know, I think it's like. You've gotta have $30,000 or something. You've gotta have a, an apartment already rented or a house already rented before you can even go over there. So a lot of people are doing this like site unseen, you know, it's like, oh that looks good on, on the Zillow or of, you know, Portugal or whatever. I guess I'll rent that one. 'cause you have to have a year, uh, house rented for a year or a place rented for a year before you can even go over there. Kris: Oh wow. Okay. So what, what's, what's up for you in the next few years? What are you dreaming up right now for yourself? Because you're just, you have such an incredible mindset around you're so capable and you don't adopt the normal limitations that society and culture. It kind of grooms us for Yes. And I think it's so incredible. I, after college I moved to Europe. I worked in Dublin at Guinness Brewery, which was so fun. Oh wow. And then I \[00:17:00\] moved over to, um. The southern coast of Turkey and I worked at a deli there on the Mediterranean blue aqua waters and I was like, this is paradise. Oh, and it was the my, it was the first taste in my life of an unconventional life path. Like the freedom. I watched people, it was a very international Turkish town that I lived in, and so people flew in. It was a para, a big paragliding community. Oh, cool. And they'd fly in from all over the world. They'd stay there for a month, they'd winter somewhere else. And I was like. Oh my gosh. I don't have to just go home, get on that hamster wheel of being, working in a cubicle, being employed, having a, a rent or mortgage or a, a leased car. Like that's an option, but it's not the only option. Right? Yes. And, and I think that, that time in my life changed the trajectory of my life. Kris: Yeah. And, and I think it really encouraged me to not be somebody who was employed by somebody else. Right. I just, yes, I just knew there was a different way and I knew I could figure it out. And though I was never a traveling, what do you call it? A what, like a nomad, Kris: portable practice. I, I never had a portable practice, but I always. I travel was in my bones. And so I'd always go somewhere every year for a full month and it was always like India or Africa or just somewhere very adventurous. So I kind of scratched that itch. And then when I had my son as a single parent, and when he was a year and a half. We moved to Mexico, central Mexico. Wow. For, um, we were there three months and it was, oh my gosh. So incredible. I met these other moms and like got embraced into this community and worked a little bit. Every day \[00:19:00\] I'd go to a coffee shop and the, and the cathedral bells would ring during my Zoom calls. Oh. Anyway, so I just like, I have such a deep appreciation that you have really, taken that and amplified it in such a huge way, and thank you. Created this beautiful life. And now you're uh, not only helping people, but reminding them that there are alternative ways to live. If you take the time to ask yourself, what would be fun? What would feel good? What are you exactly curious about? And I think so often we forget to even ask that question. Right. And then another year goes by. Yep. And then another, so Kym: I know and. Every coaching client that comes to me, they wanna hop into, I don't, you know, I don't know where to go or what to do, and I'm like, back up. Let's start with, what does your dream life look like? Like if you really, you know, uh, therapists always ask the magic wand question, if I could wave a magic wand, what would your life look like? It's cheesy, but it's true. In this case, it's like, what would it look like? And then like, let's backwards engineer it. How are we \[00:20:00\] gonna make that happen? Because it's possible. Whatever you wanna do, we'll figure out a way to do it. You know, if it's other income streams or whatever, we could figure it out. But let's start there. Mm-hmm. Kris: Tell us two questions for you. Number one, you told us about the single mom that moved to Portugal. Yes. I wanna hear a couple more just to get our juices flowing for inspiration. Oh Kym: my gosh, there's so many. Okay. Addie. Okay. Her name's Addie. She first, she and her husband lived in an rv and they traveled the country with two small children and the rv, and then they figured out this thing called Boundless Life. Have you heard of Boundless Life? No. So it's, it's this program that. I think it's three months at a time. And they signed up for it, they were like, we're gonna sell the RV and we're gonna go do Ballast Life, which is, you know, in other countries, but they, right now they're in Greece. You go with the kids, it's a three month program. They give you like housing, wonderful internet, so you can work remotely. The kids have like a community school that they go to, and they're in all these different places. They've got one in like. I think there's one in Thailand and there's one in Portugal I think, or Spain. \[00:21:00\] There's one in Greece. They're all over the world now, this boundless life, and they are just. Avi, I see pictures every day. They're just out there doing it and it's, it's amazing. There's another traveling therapist. She decided she was gonna take a world cruise. Have you heard of the world Cruises? The, you, the Kris: boat literally takes you all the way around the world, right? Yeah, yeah. With her kids? Yeah. Oh my. How long does it take to do that? Kym: I think, I dunno how long it year took her. I feel like it was like six to eight months or something. But she homeschooled the kids. And of course on a cruise ship, right? There's activities for the kids. There's like an activity director that just takes the kids and does things with them. Oh my gosh. So they would have school and then they would go do the activities or whatever, and then come back for dinner on the cruise ship and then they would stop and all these ports. And that was also part of the world schooling where they would, you know, at each port they would learn a lesson about the world and that meets the curriculum for world schooling. There. I have so many stories like this. I could go on. Oh my gosh. Kris: What I love about the ones that you've shared is that they involve children. Right. It's not, I think a lot of people think that's the most Kris: Totally. \[00:22:00\] Yeah. I think a lot of people might think, oh yeah, if I was single or retired or, or not single, but just didn't have children, right? Like um, because their schools. Again, another layer of just assuming that we have to stay in our town because they go to a certain school and it's not true. Exactly. It just honestly, like I'm having a lot of light bulb aha moments. Oh, good. Yeah. So good. Okay, so. You have 15 streams of income. Yes. Give us a handful of what they are. I'm assuming co coaching courses, uh, you don't really do therapy anymore. Is that true or do you Yeah, I, I do have Kym: a couple that is one of my income streams. I do have a couple this. Now I'm a consultant, like the clinical consultant for Barry, so I'm doing a lot of that like consulting for companies around AI and therapists and that sort of thing. Um, I've got three memberships that, you know, are separate memberships that bring in monthly recurring income. Gosh, what else do I do? Coaching. I've got. Coaching \[00:23:00\] clients. I have a coaching container that I offer, which is a 60 day. Um, I have affiliate partnerships. I have other like, just brand deals, like re recurring brand deals that, you know, people that sponsor my podcast and like my Facebook groups and that sort of thing. So those bring in a lot of good revenue and you don't really have to do much for those. You just have to nurture your audience. So they bring them really cool products. So that works out very well for me. Um, and they're products I love too. And then the podcast, you know, the podcasts, they're not really income generating themselves, but they have sponsors and then just as lead magnets, they're great, right? People every day are like, oh, I, I found you on the podcast. You know, you probably experienced that too. People are, oh, I heard your podcast and that's how I found you and mm-hmm You know, then my courses. You know, I've got a course for the traveling therapist. I've got an AI course, I've got the bill, like a boss course for the billing stuff. So I've got those digital courses out there that are just self-guided courses they can pop into and take any time they want to. Kris: So you, a lot of my listeners are coaches and I wanna hear more about your coaching \[00:24:00\] container. It's a two month container, right? And tell Yes. Tell us how that came about and what that, what does that actually look like? What, how does that work really look for you? Kym: It's evolved. It has changed because my passions have really changed over the years. I used to help people just get their insurance billing straight, like privately, but I don't I really have lost the passion for the insurance billing because it's a, it's a really frustrating thing to deal with insurance companies. Um. I've hired, I actually have a team that does most of that membership for me, and I'm really out of that these days. What was the question? I lost my train of thought. I Kris: wanna hear about the coaching container, right? It's a two month thing. Engage. Oh, the coaching container? Yeah. Kym: Yes. Now it's called, and this is because I've evolved. It's called the ai. The AI powered private practice intensive. So what it is, is the therapist comes to me, or I do it with I've done it with some people that just want other income streams that aren't therapists. They come to me and they're basically like, here's my problem. You know, I, I don't have enough staff, or I don't know how to do this. How do I automate this? I'm drowning in this, this, and this. So I basically worked with them for 60 days. And say, how are we gonna put AI into your business to make it run easier, faster, smarter, \[00:25:00\] so you can get outta your business and have more time to like, enjoy your life? That's the overall theme with everything I do, is how can we help you enjoy your life? I love it. Um, and then we meet three times in person for 90 minutes during that time, and then they have Voxer access to me so they can. Voxer is like a walkie talkie app for anybody that's listening and basically during business hours they can voxer me anytime they want with any questions that I give them my best advice on how to handle something or do something that they're working on. Kris: Okay, we're gonna wrap up now and I wanna ask you, what is one thing that a therapist or a coach that you would recommend that they do to. Really change their life or really improve their life. Kym: Oh my gosh. The thing that changed in my life, I mean, there's been a lot of things, but one of them was, I had a coach and she forced me to do a time study. She forced me to sit down and, and I do this with my clients now too. 'cause it was so life transformative, but sit down and write down 15, every 15 minutes what I'm doing in my business. For like, I think we did it for two weeks or \[00:26:00\] something like that. And, you know, then we went back together and we looked at all of the stuff that I was doing that was just like. It could be automated. I could hire somebody. I was just, I was just spinning my wheels so much. Like just wasting time, like trying to do Canva Graphics for hours, you know, for a social media post. I mean, I could hire somebody on Fiverr to do that. I have the VA that does it for me now. But I mean, you can hire somebody to do that for you, but I. I had to do everything myself, like I felt like I had to do everything myself. So this time study, it really forced me to look at where am I wasting my time and how can I outsource it? Or cut it out completely. Like is it even generating any revenue for me at all? Is there even a point to it? You know, looking at all of those factors and then making really big decisions around it. And most of it equaled. I needed to hire, you know, scale to scale up. I needed to outsource all of these little things that I'm not that good at, so that was the biggest thing for me, and it allowed me to have a lot more breathing room and bring more money in. Because then I could just be in my creative zone of genius, like coming up with fun things to teach people and the \[00:27:00\] team is doing the rest for me now, which is amazing. Building the funnels, like trying to build funnels like that was just nuts. Kris: Totally. Totally. I hear you on that. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that referred to as like, what are your $10 tasks? What are the $10 tasks that you're doing that somebody else should be doing so you can really focus on the higher level? Kris: Alright, Kim, thank you so much for being here today. Where can my listeners find you? Kym: The best place is my website, the traveling therapist.com. You can go there. I'm on Instagram, the traveling therapist under Kim, and it's KYM. And then if you're on Facebook, go to the traveling therapist. Just type in traveling therapist Facebook group, and you'll find us in there. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you again. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to \[00:28:00\] Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/the-only-story-you-need-uriah-guilford ### Title: The Only Story You Need with Uriah Guilford ### Page ID: 8639568 ### Content: Most service providers are working way too hard on their marketing. More posts. More platforms. More content. More everything. But here's what I've learned after 23 years in this business: You don't need more. You need one signature story that you use everywhere. I sat down with **Uriah Guilford** on The Productive Therapist Podcast to talk about exactly this. And I think you're going to love it. ? Why your story works like an accordion (and how to stretch or shrink it for any situation) ? The "bottle effect" that keeps you from seeing your own brilliance ? How to stop relying on unpredictable referrals and let your website sell for you When you get your one story right, everything else falls into place. Your website. Your elevator pitch. Your social media. It all starts working together instead of feeling scattered. Ep. 60 | The Only Story You Need with Uriah Guilford \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Uriah: Yes. I'm particularly excited about this conversation, um, because I think some of the topics that we're getting into, I know they're your favorites and they're Oh, yeah. Also some of my favorites, so this is, this is gonna be a good time for sure. Uriah: Before we dive into talking about how to replace all your marketing with a single story, I have to ask you two specific questions, somewhat related, but kind of unrelated. Is that okay? Yeah. Uriah: So, uh, I'm just curious because I don't know, I'm wondering if you can tell me the story of the name of your business, which is Red Door. I know there's a story, I just, I'm curious to know what it is. Kris: Yeah, \[00:01:00\] absolutely. I founded the business 23 years ago, which is hard to even believe. Wow. Yeah, I've, I found my purpose early in life and, um, red was my longtime favorite color. It's since shifted slightly into the hot pink tones. Nice. I loved what, what it represented, and I really love this idea of a red door and the meaning behind that. So a red door signify signifies prosperity and also just like a nurturing, um. Experience. And so I love the idea of like combining those two things. That's what I help my clients do and that's what I want them to experience with with me. Uriah: I love it. That's fantastic. Yeah. One of the things that I actually really enjoy doing when I travel, \[00:02:00\] um, whether it's in the United States or in other countries, is taking pictures of, of two things. For some reason, street art and interesting doors. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I know it's kind of random. Yeah. But, um. My wife and I were recently last month in Ireland for a couple weeks. Yep. For a vacation and then, then also for a, a therapist retreat. And that's why I was taking pictures of doors. Um, so this is my second question for you though, because I was in Dublin. Um. I went and visited the Guinness Storehouse and did various Guinness related activities. And I saw on your website that you've worked with a number of iconic company companies, one of them being Guinness, and I'm curious if you have any stories about that. Yes, Kris: yes. I, of course, I lived in Dublin. And Did you? So yeah, I was able to get a job with Guinness and work in their marketing department. Wow. So the St. James' gate and the whole place that you were at, that's where I went to work every day. I took two bus. That's amazing. Two buses \[00:03:00\] to work there every day. Um, and it, this was in my twenties and. Guinness, if you worked there, they, you had free food, which for me, at that phase of my life, I was like, oh my gosh, free food and you got one free beer a day. I can't remember if it was one free beer, two free beers. And so we would like. Stockpile and this lot of employees would do this. They'd just stockpile beer underneath our, Kris: Cubicle desk. And yeah, it was amazing. It was amazing, you know, that smell of, um, a brewery and how like anytime I smell that I. Go back to that time in my life. And, um, and yeah, it was, it was pretty epic. They, those guys That's so cool. They know how to brand. Uriah: Yeah, I was thinking about it because I went through their, you know, tour experience and it was really, really well done. Yes. But the most interesting thing to me as kind of a marketing nerd, right, was \[00:04:00\] the floor, the, the section where they talk about their marketing campaigns over the years. Everything that they've done and really, truly brilliant. Um, the one that's one of the ones that stands out for me is, uh, some of the old ads that say like, Guinness for strength or, you know, like, yes, they're really, yes, just like branding beer as like, you know, it's good for babies, it's good for men and, and, and all it's so, so funny and, and wonderful. Kris: Yeah, they do. You know, when I lived there Guinness, everyone drank Guinness. Um, and. Women would drink Guinness and Black Current. Have you heard of that? So like, wait, is that Kris: With the syrup? Yes. We tried it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you? Okay. So it's still, I wasn't sure if it was that was still going on, but um, definitely, uh, yeah, I was telling my partner about that the other day. I was like, we need to go try it. Guinness and Black Current. 'cause it, it's a totally different it. Tastes so, so \[00:05:00\] decadent and very different. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. You, you don't want more than one. 'cause it's like, it's a lot. Uriah: Definitely. Definitely. But yeah, that's so great. Thanks for sharing that. I, I had no idea that you actually worked there. I just kind of thought maybe you worked for them for a period of time or worked on a project, but that's fun. Yeah, Kris: yeah. Yeah. I was really a, a lucky, lucky experience. Uriah: That's fantastic. Yeah. So the idea of replacing all of your marketing with a single story. Sounds enticing, but almost too good to be true. Mm-hmm. So tell me a little bit more about this idea. Kris: Yeah, so really the idea is that. Story is the way that we connect with other people. And there's a lot of psychology around story as you know. It's a beautiful way to build connection, build trust, and so we, we clearly want to be using story in our marketing, but how do we do that? I believe. Every, every business or business owner \[00:06:00\] needs one signature story for their business. And that same story can be used in every area of your marketing. And the reason that you can use one story everywhere, the same story everywhere, is because your signature story works a lot like an accordion. It might be a longer story, like on your homepage, it might be a, in a video script, it might be. This length and, and, and as a one-liner or an elevator pitch, it's the shortest version of the story, but the fundamentals of the story, the components of story, are the same no matter where you're telling it, no matter the length. And so when I work with my clients. We put together their story, we craft their story, and then we give it to them in all these different versions from long to medium to short. So then you can show up online. Very congruent, \[00:07:00\] very consistent. If somebody happens upon you on social media and then they go to your website, it's all really in alignment with each other, that that doesn't mean you're being lazy. Like yes, it is less work, which, what a gift. But, um, it, it's actually the, it's less work, but it builds trust quicker and half the battle as self-employed people. Is really just being remembered and being known for the thing that you do. And if you want that, um, this is the, the easiest path to get there. Uriah: Yeah, I like that you said alignment. You talked about alignment where everything kind of has a similar I. A through line. Is that, is that, Kris: yeah. Like a golden thread. Is that the word? Uriah: A golden thread, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that very much. Uriah: So many questions in my head, but the first one that comes to mind is do you think that most business owners don't really think, when they think about \[00:08:00\] branding, messaging, marketing, they don't really start with story. Kris: Oh, oh, it's so true. So true. And why so do you Kris: think that, you know, um, part of it is just when you become self-employed, um, the, the things that that sound the most fun are like, I need a logo. I need, you know, I need brand colors, or I need a website and I'm gonna. Crank one out, um, without really taking the time to figure out what do you want to say? What do you want to be known for? What type, what's the problem you wanna be known for solving? What kind of transformation do you wanna provide for your clients? Um, so. The, the story work that we do is the foundation. It's, it's that fertile soil in which everything else grows from. So if you can imagine really, truly, like dirt on the \[00:09:00\] ground, and that is your story, that's the foundation of everything. And then as the tree grows, then that's like your website is informed by that, that soil, your branding is informed by that. Everything that you do. Visually or in written form is informed by the the foundational story that we craft. Uriah: But it takes a little bit of work to pull that out. I imagine with some business owners, I. Because they don't start there. They need to do, they need to kind of discover? Do you help them discover their story? Kris: A lot of people that come to me, they're a year in. Mm-hmm. Or two or three years in and that's fine. Like I don't think that anybody can really shortcut those first year, that first year or two. Like sure. There's so much bootstrapping and so much DIYing that is. So hard and so much learning \[00:10:00\] going on. Um, and I, I just don't think that there's a shortcut around that. I think what's best is for you to do what you, you need to do. Slap up a website, you know, get your logo, get out there, like, just get, get the wheels going, get a year under your belt and. You learn so much during that year around the type of people you like to work with and how do you like to deliver? Do you wanna work with groups? Do you wanna work one-on-one? And so at that point, I think is the time most people come to me and they say, you know, and I think back on the last year or two, no clients have come to me through my website. Kris: I'm relying only on referrals. And referrals are great, but they're not a consistent way to grow your business, and you've got to have marketing tools set up for you on autopilot to continually \[00:11:00\] keep your pipeline full. You know, potentially, hopefully get you a wait list. Um, so you constantly like have people that are lined up, excited about working with you. That's really the goal. I think any therapist that goes into business wants to make an impact, wants to make a difference, wants to genuinely help people, and. They don't do that because they also wanna become a part-time marketer. You know, the, the marketing piece, true marketing piece is like this. Oh yeah. I didn't realize like I got into this business. 'cause I love to work, not because I want to be a part-time marketer and posting on social media and all the things that we can feel like we have to get involved in. We don't necessarily have to like. Social media being a perfect example. If you have a website that is set up to \[00:12:00\] sell and you're doing a couple of activities to send people to that website, that's all you need to do. You don't have to be on social media all the time unless you really want to be. Um, but there are so many options that require much less effort to. Uriah: I like those words. Less effort. Yes. You make a really good point. And, and this is probably true of other industries, but therapists in particular, we got into what we do because we, it's part of our story is helping other people being a provider of services and yeah, definitely marketing is not the zone of genius. So we kind of like do what we have to do to get the word out. Um, but we do. I think this is true of a lot of therapists. We do have a very personal story of what brought us to this work, and for a long time we were not, we were sort of \[00:13:00\] discouraged from using that story because we were told not to self disclose to our clients and those types of things. Mm-hmm. One of the successes that I had early on in my solo practice was telling my story because I was a troubled teen. Mm-hmm. Who. Did like try to, my, my parents tried to get me into therapy and that didn't really help. Mm-hmm. And I was a troubled teen that ended up becoming a therapist for troubled teens. Mm. And so I decided to just use that and tell that story. Uriah: And once upon a time, years ago, actually hired a very talented copywriter to help me like actually put it into a story form. Mm-hmm. And that was basically my homepage for the longest time. And I. If, if I remember correctly, the, the title was something like From Troubled Teen to Successful. Therapist or something like that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the message was basically like, this is, this is who I am and what my story is. And now I've become the therapist that I wish I had when I was 16. Mm. And I told, I told some specifics about my struggles, you know, as a teenager, like. Real specifics, \[00:14:00\] right? Mm-hmm. And what happened with that is I got so many clients because parents read that and they said, wow, this is a, a therapist who I think my son or daughter can really connect with. And this is a real person who has like, overcome things in their lives. And it just unintentionally became very like magnetic, I guess. Mm, mm-hmm. Um, so that was a success that I had early on. Mm. And very happy about that. Kris: Mm. That's it's really powerful. Powerful. I think part of what was. Working in there it sounds like is that you were of course showing that you struggled with similar issues as their children. You came out the other side as a therapist who now understands the problem so thoroughly, so intimately, and when we can show up and show. Our potential clients that we truly get the problem. We really get it through and through our brains or \[00:15:00\] their brains automatically think you're the best one to solve it. It's, it's click connection. Incredibly powerful. Right? Yeah. They feel seen, they feel heard. Mm-hmm. You've shown some vulnerability and, and so we, there. There. Stories like that are irresistible to our brains. We cannot help but engage. And so you did such a beautiful job and you saw firsthand the power of a great story. Uriah: Definitely. I think I had some challenge. I. Translating that into my group practice when I started that about 10 years ago. Mm-hmm. Which was Guilford Family Counseling, and now it's Intune family counseling like I was telling you earlier. Mm-hmm. And that that then became much less and less about me and my story, and people who were coming to us didn't really know Uriah or didn't really care about Uriah. Mm-hmm. Which was hard for me in a moment, but then it was fine, you know? Yeah. Um, so I guess I would ask you this question. Two potential scenarios. So let's say there's a solo or a group practice mm-hmm. \[00:16:00\] Is, um, more general in nature. Mm-hmm. Like, they kind of work with all kinds of people, all kinds of problems. So there's not like a through line necessarily, or a golden thread. Mm-hmm. How, how would a business like that tell a compelling story? I would encourage that practice to really get clear on the problems that they solve and they could hone in, and maybe it's two or three problems that they solve, but I, if you're everything to everyone, you're nobody to anybody, or whatever that phrase is. Sure. It's like you, you actually kind of can't have a compelling story if you're not clear on. Essentially a single problem that you solve. Um, right. There are lots of creative, creative ways to keep things broad but clear. So you could create, um, a \[00:17:00\] larger bucket like, you know, kids with anxiety or mm-hmm. Um, like families right there, there's. Endless issues that a family might have, but you're very clear that you're helping families and you're very clear that you're creating connection, getting them in, in sync, and in tune with each other, um, in rhythm with each other. I really love that word rhythm. Um, yeah. When you're old, old name, um. There's, I have yet to meet a client where we haven't been able to do it. Um, there's always a way and I know how to ask the right questions that pull that story out. And because I'm not as business owners or as therapists, we're so close to our own selves. We're so close to our own practice, we're inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside. And so. I'm able to come \[00:18:00\] in, ask the right questions, and truly because of that perspective, I can identify that golden thread and right. It, it really just bubbles up to the surface. Uriah: That's helpful. So it sounds like part of the answer to that would be probably choose a couple different focuses or niches as we like to call them or niche. Uriah: and then that allows you to clarify the messaging. And, you know, yeah. Classic Donald Miller example, right. With the website that sells pet food and they've got two buttons, one for cats, one for dogs. Yes. Is that a good example? Maybe? Yeah. Yeah. That's Kris: a great example. Yeah. I mean if, if you're really, I would say 99% of the clients that I talk with are like, but I have two very different types of clientele. Mm-hmm. And I say there's always. There's always like an overlap on the Venn diagram. There's always a way we can essentially craft a story. So it speaks to both people. There are ways to set up \[00:19:00\] the page that truly does connect with both people. Um, but in a situation where you're, you know, um, where you really wanna separate that out, then yeah, create a page for this audience and a page for that audience. Sure. Then, then. You know, customize the message to each of them. Uriah: And then also possibly there's a way to take a, a business that serves multiple different populations and have sort of an overarching story or theme. Everyone deserves good mental health, or something along those lines. And that's for sure. And then you can talk about why that's important and, yeah. Yeah. So you can really, as, as, there's so many ways to skin the cat, but Kris: can create like a homepage that is an overarching message about what you stand for, um, who you work with. And then you can identify and give them the option to choose which one \[00:20:00\] they are, and then go to that page and. And learn what you can provide for them there. That makes sense. Yeah. But I'm a big fan of, you know, doing the work and doing the heavy lifting to get clear, to really have one message and one page. Mm-hmm. Most people will not navigate to a secondary page, and so I really like to kind of include multiple pages. Just on the homepage, meaning integrating the about page on the homepage, integrating the services page on the homepage. Mm-hmm. And not when people land on your website, you don't wanna send them on a scavenger hunt to try and gather the information they need to, to take that next step. So Kris: yeah. A lot of times, um, we wanna be helpful and we wanna, you know, show. Our potential clients, all the things that we know. But your website in particular is like a \[00:21:00\] first five minute coffee date. It's just there to create enough interest, intrigue, trust for them to wanna, you know, hop on a call or take whatever that next step is that you want them to take, fill out your form. Um, it's just to get them to. Excited about moving forward if they're the right type of client for you. Uriah: Yeah, there's it, it you only have nanoseconds if that seconds to like grab the attention of somebody. Yes. Yeah. And what do you, what do you think are some of the best ways to do that on a website, on a homepage with, without scrolling? I have some ideas in my head. I'm sure they're probably the similar ideas, but how can a therapist, once they craft a compelling story, how can they best present that on their homepage so that when somebody lands on it, they go, oh, Kris: Well there, there's nothing wrong with having a, having them \[00:22:00\] scroll on your homepage. Sure, it's much clunkier to move from mul to multiple pages, but if they land on your page, that upper section, which I call the hero or the header section, right? It's the first thing that they see on your website. It's usually a big image and a big headline, and a subhead and a. And a button. And, um, this is really the most important work that you can do because when they land on your website. They're wondering, am I in the right place? And you have to give them the information that they need to identify that. And then that way, people that aren't looking for what you're doing leave, which is a good thing. And the people that are looking for what you're doing stay. And if you've done the heavy lifting of getting clear. And you're able to, within about five seconds, communicate what you do, how it's gonna make my life better, and what do you want me to do next? You need to do those three \[00:23:00\] things in about five seconds. If you do that, well, then they're gonna continue to scroll, right? And so that's really the top priority. If, if you get that wrong, they're gonna bounce to another website and you've just lost a potential client. Uriah: It's amazing to me how much effort and work it takes to actually put together that image in those maybe 20 or 30 words. Yes. But how powerful they are at the same time, right? Yes. Yeah. Kris: Yeah. It's very, very hard to do for yourself. It really is. Um, but if you have help and you have somebody who understands story and, and is good with keeping things clear and simple, it, it doesn't have to take very long. Uriah: Absolutely. Yeah. As we're talking, I'm thinking about productive therapist and thinking, I need your help crafting a better story because. Uh, over the last seven years of having productive therapist as a business, we do have a core service and we do have a core sort of transformation that we provide. \[00:24:00\] But me, with my creative entrepreneurial brain, I've created a directory and written a book, and I have a podcast, and I feel like I've got to the point where I've got. Too many things to where when I meet people sometimes, unless they already have been on my list and know me and know us. Mm-hmm. They're like, so tell me, what does productive therapist do? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And really what I want is for everyone out there to be learning about productive therapist and telling some, some similar story, right? Oh, productive therapist. Yeah. X, Y, Z. Right? They're Kris: known for, yeah. When you, when they ask you that question, how do you answer it? Like when they go, what does productive therapists do? How do you answer that? Uriah: I just had that, I was at a conference, I was speaking in Austin, Texas to a small group of therapists and, um, a number of them knew of us and had, you know, engaged with us before and purchased our products and and services. But I was sitting at a table eating breakfast with a group of therapists and one of them who had clearly heard of me and us said, so tell me about productive therapists. What do you do? And so I told them about our core service, which is \[00:25:00\] providing virtual intake coordinators for mental health practices. Hmm. That's the main thing that we do. Mm-hmm. But, mm-hmm. I spent a lot of time and energy talking about AI and like, you know, operations mm-hmm. And all kinds of other different things. So it's, yeah. It's not as focused as it could be, to be honest. Kris: Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, every good story begins with a problem. So when you answer that question, you know, I, I mean, you're clear on what you provide, but what's. The problem that you're solving, like many therapists mm-hmm. Waste hours of their precious time managing in the intake process or whatever is the problem. Um, tell me what is, what is the problem? Uriah: Yeah. When therapists become successful, they. Find themselves overwhelmed and overworked. They become too busy because they're wearing all the hats, they're doing all the things, \[00:26:00\] and then they wonder why they got into it in the first place. Mm-hmm. But the, the real problem is they just. Need some help. They need some help answering the phone, answering the emails, talking to new clients, matching them with the right therapist. Mm-hmm. And it turns out when they get a good intake coordinator to take over that role, their life dramatically improves. And they're like, oh gosh. Reconnected with their mission. They feel like they can make a bigger impact and do what they're really meant to do. Something like that. That's good. Right? Kris: That was so good. It was so good. It gave me context around what you do and this struggle that these therapists are dealing with, right? They've finally reached like success. They should be happy. They're probably making good money, but their quality of life is like they're spread too thin, they're exhausted, they're on their way to burnout, and right then how are you gonna make an impact when you're burnt out? So. It's powerful. Really powerful the way you position that. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. I need to work Uriah: \[00:27:00\] on that, that accordion piece that you were talking about. I like that analogy of like. Same story, but sometimes it's long, sometimes it's short. Yes. But it's all the same, the same focus in a, in a sense. It's, yeah. Kris: The, the core foundations of every story are, it be, it begins with a hero or a character that has a problem they don't know how to solve. Mm-hmm. So your clients are the hero of your story. You are the guide. Who gives them a plan that calls them to action and it results in success and helping them avoid failure. But you can, you communicated all of those components in what you just shared with me that was, you know, we could even go shorter. Um, mm-hmm. For sure. Definitely. And then definitely we could go longer, we would go deeper into all of those components on your website, for example. Yeah. I've done Kris: Totally. I'm here for you. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Uriah: I, I wanna read you a quote from a book I'm reading recently, and you might have already heard this, \[00:28:00\] but I'm curious, well, of course you'll agree with this quote. The book is called Same as Ever, by Morgan Housel. Mm-hmm. And the subtitle is A Guide To What Never Changes. Kris: Really? Okay, I'm gonna write that. So here's a Uriah: quote that I pulled out. Okay. Um, he said, the best story wins not the best idea or the right idea or the most rational idea. Just whoever tells a story that catches people's attention and gets them to nod their heads is the one who tends to be rewarded. Kris: Mm. Wow. Isn't that good? Yeah. That's really, really good. Yeah. I mean, and I think it's a relief in many ways. Like I. You don't have to, to have the best idea, you don't have to have 18 certifications. You have to have a story that mm-hmm. People truly connect with that. That's compelling, that's consistent, that's transformational. And when once you have that, like \[00:29:00\] everything else kind of falls down like dominoes because. Just life gets a lot easier and you win. It kicks into place. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, totally. Uriah: It also occurs to me that this might be one of the better ways to AI proof a business. Right? Because like AI can do so many amazing things and it will continue to, to get better and better. Mm-hmm. But there's nothing that can quite replace. Uh, an interesting human story about somebody who did something, overcame something. Like you said that that hero's journey, right? Uriah: Like, how do you, AI will never tell you a story that you're like, oh, I feel that, you know, it's just totally, it's not gonna happen. Kris: gonna happen. I mean, the beauty, the beauty of AI is that once you've got your signature story, once you've. Gone through the process of crafting your mm-hmm. One powerful story that you use everywhere in your business, then you can feed those components into mm-hmm. Chat, GBT, but you know, \[00:30:00\] garbage in, garbage out, so you wanna feed it gold essentially, and then it can actually help make your life easier for other things that you want to create. Uriah: That's really good. Okay. So I'm a person that's very actionable and like, you know, practical. Yeah. I think that's why people like to listen to this podcast, hopefully Uhhuh. Um, so all these ideas, I guarantee you that every therapist listening to this right now is nodding their head saying yes, this, um. So what would be some first action steps for someone to take? Who's listening? Who's thinking, I want to take the story that I have and make it better? I wanna, I want to build this golden thread with the accordion. All of it sounds amazing. Where do they start? Kris: Well, I mean, I. You can read my book. I was thinking that. Yeah, the book, I have a book called From Click to Client and um, the book will is probably the most affordable way to really start \[00:31:00\] implementing this work. Everything like my book and my freebies. Um, there's a lot of free resources there that people can tap into. It can all be found@reddoorstories.com. And I would really encourage people to go through my five minutes to compelling copy process. It's a five minute video with a companion worksheet, and it's gonna pull that story out of you. Once you go through that. It won't take you very long, but that's gonna change the lens at which you look at your business and, and what the lens in which you. Talk about your business. Write about your business. Um. It's gonna change that lens for you, which I think is the most powerful thing that you can do right now. And then I would always encourage people to, you know, if you're in D, if you're in early days in your practice and you're wanting to \[00:32:00\] DIY, great. There's a lot of free options out there. I've got a bunch of resources on, um, on my website if you wanna work with me. You can always book a call with me on my website too, and we'll talk about your story. Um, my calls, I don't charge anything for the call, so we can look at your website, talk about your story and, and map out a plan. Um, so those are good. Those are really good first steps for people. Uriah: Yeah, you have some excellent resources and your emails are really, really good. Uriah: Yeah. And I always know that when I get an email from you what it's gonna be about, which, you know, there it is. Yeah. Yeah. You practice. Exactly. Kris: Bang, bang in the same drum over and over again. It works. Uriah: I think it's an important one. Yeah. I appreciate what you're doing for all the businesses that you've helped in the past and, and present and future. Um, I think. This is what makes us human and this is what helps us to stand out. It's not hopefully dancing on TikTok or like \[00:33:00\] broadcasting constantly on social media, but if you have a compelling story, people do want to repeat that, don't they? I mean, I think that's just kind of the nature of, of. How it works. Have you heard about this? Have you heard about so and so? Yeah, Kris: yeah, yeah. I mean, they're, uh, stories are like 22 times more memorable than just facts. So yeah, again, it's like how to be remembered and also people need to hear things about eight or nine times in order to even be able to commit them to memory. So the more you repeat, like when you start getting mm-hmm. Sick of your own story, that's when it's gonna really start to gain traction. That's the Yeah. Why am I saying the same thing over and over again? Oh, maybe people are actually getting it. Uriah: good. I've always seen myself or or thought of myself as someone who's not good at telling stories, and I admire people who can do that, like, you know, live in person at a party or around a \[00:34:00\] campfire or those kinds of things. Yeah. But I literally have on my board, um, in my office it says, uh, tell more stories, but I haven't quite figured out how to practice that. I mean, I'm doing it in my writing, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, but like how to practice that in my day-to-day life, how to think about. Mm-hmm. Talking and, and writing in that sort of format, you know, I dunno if you have any thoughts on that. Kris: Yeah, I mean, uh, so many there, but I do have a book recommendation around that. Please. If you're wanting, wanting to really practice that. There's a, um, a book called Stories, I think it's called Stories Sell by Matthew. Dickman, let me double check on that stories. Yeah. Matthew Dix sell, um, stories Sell Okay. By Matthew Dix, and he is like a 10 time moth, uh, storytelling grand. Slam champion, whatever it is. Like he is, he is a great storyteller. He, \[00:35:00\] um, managed to McDonald's for many years in his younger years, then became a teacher and used story to like un, un like unconsciously used story. Um. It got him to these incredible places. So, uh, he, it, it sounds like a book about selling, but it's really mm-hmm. A book about storytelling and also being able to do it verbally. Yeah. Uriah: That's fantastic. Yeah, I'm definitely, I'll put that in the show notes and I'm going to go get that book today. Thank you. So Kris: good. He, I listen to it on audio and I really feel like I got to know him better. Oh, good. I love books. That's, I know if you love audio books, but Yeah, I do. I'm all about the audio Uriah: books. I like try to think of myself as somebody who sits down and reads books. You know, I still buy books and I put them on my shelf. Yeah. And then I go get the audio and I listen to the audio, which is kind of funny, but. Kris: not alone. You're not alone. I do know when I sit down to \[00:36:00\] read a book, which is not often the feeling of having the page pages and to be able to kind of underline things like it, it truly is like such a different experience. Um, but I think as you know, business owners and professionals, sometimes we just wanna like. Have it in our ears while we do the dishes or on a walk or whatever. And that's delightful. Like I, I think I'm an auditory learner and so I think it sinks in deeper when I'm, when I'm doing audible. Uriah: Definitely. I agree. Mm-hmm. However, I will say this one thing before we wrap up. When I really want to like soak in the content of a book, usually it's nonfiction, of course. Right. But there are times when I will be diligent enough to sit down with the book. And a highlighter. Listen to the audio and then highlight as I go through. Ooh. Yeah. That it's a pretty good strategy actually. I like that. Uriah: taking it in in multiple different ways, and then you have a touch point for getting back to the things that \[00:37:00\] were interesting. Yeah. Oh, I should do that more. That's good. Yeah, I should do that more Kris: that like, if you really wanna get, get really good at something fast. That's like the, that's the fast track study. Yeah. And, and then a little, um, sticky note to mark, like certain pages. Yeah, Uriah: definitely. Well, Chris, thank you so much for your time today and for people who are listening. Absolutely. Go directly now to red door stories.com and sign up for all the things, and by the book really truly, you won't regret it. Definitely worth it. Yeah. Kris: Thank you for having me. It's been such a delight to talk to you. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/build-visibility-without-posting-daily ### Title: Build Visibility Without Posting Daily with Kylie Kelly ### Page ID: 8680133 ### Content: Build Visibility Without Posting Daily with Kylie Kelly If social media has started to feel like a full-time job you never applied for, today’s episode is for you. I sat down with **Kylie Kelly** for Episode 61 of the From Click to Client Podcast, and we had one of those conversations that makes you exhale and think, okay… maybe I don’t have to do this the hard way anymore. Kylie helps entrepreneurs grow their businesses without relying on social media, and what she shares is practical, grounded, and refreshingly human. ✨ Why relationship-based marketing creates trust faster than algorithms ✨ How summits, bundles, and podcast guesting replace daily posting ✨ A simple way to choose marketing strategies that actually fit your life If you’ve been doing “all the things” and still wondering why visibility feels exhausting, this episode offers another option that might finally feel sustainable. Build Visibility Without Posting Daily with Kylie Kelly CTC Ep. 61 | Build Visibility Without Posting Daily with Kylie Kelly \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Kris: Kylie Kelly, it is so delightful to have you here on the podcast. Welcome. Kylie: Thank you. It's so good to be here. I'm so excited. Kris: Me too. So Kylie is. Brilliant at helping entrepreneurs grow their business. Without social media. I repeat without social media. So tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do, and then we'll get into your approach. Kylie: Yes, of course. So I am a business strategist just outside of Sydney and Australia and just what you shared. I help women specifically female founders, grow their business without social media. And \[00:01:00\] I guess the reason or the way that I fell into that is because. I was just feeling really burnt down by social. I was doing all the things. I was, you know, trying all the strategies, being consistent, but I wasn't seeing anything for like any ROI for all of the work. And I came from a photography background, so pre pandemic. I was a wedding photographer for over a decade. So you can imagine like how visual, um, how much of a perfectionist, how I like curated. Fees. So that added to it as well, like that added to the stress of like wanting it to all be perfect. And then when I wasn't actually making any money or seeing any engagement, like we've all had those things that we post and there's like two likes and it's just like heart, like soul crushing, heartbreaking. So, um, it was when I stopped and I. You know, took a step back and looked at the numbers. I was like, okay, there's gotta be a smarter way. Like I've got two little kids that we were just talking about before, hit record. Like I don't have all the time in the world to figure this social game out, so what's gonna work and what's gonna work quickly? And so \[00:02:00\] now I just build my business and my clients' businesses through relationship based strategies and yeah, it's so much more fun. Kris: Oh yeah, that, that's huge. And I think so many people can relate, right? We have, culturally, we're on social media a fair amount. So we think if we have a business that we also need to be on social media all the time, and. It's so defeating when it isn't working, and it's even more defeating when you have little ones at home or a family or a partner who want your time and that you wanna be with, and instead you're on this. Never ending hamster wheel of social media. And I describe it as like what it felt like in college when I would finish a paper and then there'd be another assignment due. And it was like, when in, when is there going to be a break? It's the perpetual homework assignment. And as business \[00:03:00\] owners. Really, we get into this because we want freedom. Mm-hmm. And I feel like the social media piece in particular is the thing that makes us not feel free at all. And I think as well, for anyone listening, knowing that there are other options, and like if you love social media, if you are, you know, authentically, like you love entertaining, you love creating con, like if that is your jam, go for it, by all means, right? Like, I'm not here to say don't use it, like do it. But if it doesn't feel good, if you're not seeing the results, if you're doing it just because you think you have to. There are other ways, like it doesn't have to be this. And I love that analogy of the never ending homework. I think that is so true. 'cause it doesn't, it doesn't seem to stop. Right? Like how do you, how do you make that stop if you think you have to do it? Kris: Yeah. No fun. No fun. But you're right. Like I have one friend who genuinely enjoys getting on camera and just speaking from her heart, she has a real gift for \[00:04:00\] it. And I think it's. In some ways really therapeutic for her. But for every 50 to a hundred coaches and consultants that I talk to, like 99.9% of them, if they had the choice, they would not be on social media or they, they would do it out of inspiration and not because of obligation, which is a very different energy around the work. Yeah. So, mm-hmm. You, you talk about. Relationships. What does that mean? Right. Relationships can be mm-hmm. It can be like, give us, give us some tangible insight into what you mean by that. Kylie: Yeah, of course. So I'm a big believer that your business is always gonna grow at the speed of trust, right? So it's thinking about, okay, who is also serving my ideal client, who we have to be strategic. We're not just here like we, we wanna make friends too, but we have to be strategic with our time. So thinking about, okay, who else is serving my ideal client that would make the strategic relationship? \[00:05:00\] And then being a human being about it, right? Like reaching out and actually getting to know the person. If you can put time into building those relationships, then so much comes out of them. Then collaborations come out of them. You can do, um, a lot of things online with, uh, you know, bundles and summits, podcast guesting like this, or freebie swaps or you know, JV webinars. There's so much goodness that can come out of it as long as we start with that strategic brain of like picking people that are serving our ideal client and then going about it in a really human way. And I think, you know, I think there's been a lot of, um. What would I say there? There's been a lot of stuff online, especially with like the DM strategies and like people trying to build relationships, but you know, it's not genuine, right? You know, it feels slimy and it's not quite authentic. And I think you can really stand out if you come at it from this heartfelt approach and really take an interest, take an interest in their life outside of their business, as well as what they're building. And then remember the fortune's in the follow up. Don't just start a friendship and \[00:06:00\] not take it to where it'll benefit both your businesses as well. Kris: So let's rewind and go back to when you were asking yourself, okay, there's gotta be a better way. What happened next? Kylie: Yeah, so I actually decided to host a virtual summit. So a little bit of insight about me. I'm not naturally an extrovert. Like I would, I would stay at home in my pajamas and like not see another human if I, if it was a choice. Um, so I decided to host a virtual summit, which is a little bit crazy knowing that about me. And at this point I didn't have an email list. I knew I wanted to help women, but I didn't know how. So I was like, well, let's just create the platform, invite all these experts. They can share their magic, their genius, and they invite their audience, right? So, another thing to know about me is I'm a bit of a go bigger go home girl. So it wasn't a small event. It can be, if you're listening to this and you wanna do it, it can be smaller than what I did, but I had 30 speakers. I literally just pitched \[00:07:00\] my butt off to these people that served. This, you know, the right. People that I wanted to work with, they, um, all submitted prerecorded presentations. I like had the platform for them. Um, we all promoted the event together and my email list grew from like zero to 600 with one event. And that blew me away 'cause I was like, oh. Okay. Suddenly it didn't cost me money. It cost me my time. It, let's be real, like there was a time investment. Sure. But it didn't cost me a cent in paid ads. I wasn't on social promoting it or trying to go viral or anything. And then the beautiful thing is after the event was over, I then had these 30 incredible women that I didn't know before that I could build this relationship that we were just talking about with. That's then gone on to lead on to so much other, so many other things. So that's where I started and then I got the bug. I was like, oh my gosh, six. This was amazing. Like, and it felt kind of like I was the party host. I was just like making introductions and, and then, so I went on to host more summits, and then I've gone on to host bundles and do \[00:08:00\] all sorts of things since then. Kris: Oh my gosh, I love, love, love that story. What I also really, what really popped out for me was. That they were prerecorded presentations. Right. So you had control over everything. It wasn't just you were hosting a live event, you got to kind of organize and time everything with the prerecording. Is that right? Kylie: Absolutely. I even added a little intro onto the start 'cause it's like everybody coming. I wanted, obviously I wanted to highlight the guests, but I also wanted 'em to get to know me if they're being added to my audience. So I added a little intro to introduce the speaker and a little bit of a call to action at the end, making sure that there was something tangible for 'em to go and do after they watched it. So again, a time investment of course, but that meant that the relationship that I was building with those new people to my email list was deeper than if they just signed up for a random summit to listen to one particular person. Yeah, it was, and I'm a bit of a control freak. Another thing about me, I like control and, which is like the worst trait because \[00:09:00\] you can't control much in this life. But yeah, it was a much more controlled way to do it than doing a live event. Kris: Did you figure that out yourself? Did you DIY that, because I have a, actually my personal trainer had a summit and she hired a coach to help her navigate every little detail of the summit 'cause. Like anything, there's so much more to it than you know when going into it. So I'm curious, like did somebody guide you down that path or was it a DIY kind of thing? Kylie: No, it was a completely figure it out as I went, I did attend a few summits as a, um, attendee, so I was taking notice of just the way that it flowed and the way that, that it ran. So I had a little bit of insight from that perspective, but I'll say it was a steep learning curve because I was DIYing it. There were things that that didn't work, that didn't go right, that I was like, okay, note for next time. So it was definitely a steep learning curve, but, but it was, it was doable, right? Kris: Yeah. So a couple questions for you. Number one, I'd love \[00:10:00\] to hear like a highlight or a story around the 30 women that you got to meet through the process and what kind of fruitful things happened as a result of that. Kylie: Yes, of course. So, gosh, I must say that's kind of where my network started. So most of those women I'm still connected to today, and this was years ago. This was in 2022 that I hosted that summit at the very beginning. And as all businesses, I've evolved with what I offer and and things. But because I was clear on the person I wanted to serve, those relationships are still fruitful to this day. Like I still have a. A great, um, business relationship with all of them. Um, I will say with any event that you host, there's always gonna be people that don't follow the rules, that don't promote it, even though that you're ask them, asking them to, things like that. So, look, to be completely transparent, like I have a little bit of a black book of like the people that don't do the right thing. So it's not all sunshine and rainbows, but, um. But yeah, they've all, they've all \[00:11:00\] led onto beautiful things, freebie swaps. You know, even one of them, a dear friend of mine now, Alison Hardy, she, um, I collaborated with her years ago and then she joined my membership and then I taught her how to do bundles. And then she, her email list grew from like 3000 to 10,000 subscribers in a year just through this bundle strategy. And now she's going on to teach other people to do bundles, which I think is beautiful. So like. There's a lot of power in doing things in a way that feel good, but using the relationships instead. Kris: I love it. Tell, let's dig in a little bit more on bundles and bundles strategy. 'cause I, I can sense that people listening are kind of like, okay, what does that really mean? Bundle and bundle strategy. Kylie: Yes, of course. So a bundle, if, if nobody's heard of it before, it's literally like an online gift bag, if you will, where, um, all the contributors submit a resource. It's normally a paid resource, and you sign up to the \[00:12:00\] bundle and then you get to go in and choose what resources you wanna sign up for as well. So the bundle host gets all of the emails generally, and then. As a contributor, you get the emails when people decide to come and sign up for your gift. So, um, which feels much better, right? Like as a person, if you were signing up for something and you got every, you got added to everyone's email list, that would just feel slightly and gross. So, generally speaking, that's the way that it works. Um. I think the key at the moment in the online space, especially bundles are pretty, I wouldn't say I, I don't like the word saturated, but they are, there's a lot of them around now. So the real magic is getting really niched and really specific. So if. Thinking about a K, what is the exact problem that I solve for my ideal client? Could I create a collaboration bundle around solving that problem and then networking and partnering with people that also compliment that. So as an example, to make it a bit much more tangible, um, I've hosted one in the past called the Ultimate Email Marketing Bundle. So I help people grow their email list without social, but in \[00:13:00\] there as well, there were other experts that were helping with welcome sequences or subject lines or deliverability or other parts of the email marketing piece. Whereas if you compare that to like a general, like grow your business to 10 figures in 2026, which is so broad and so wide. The more niche you can be with this now, the better the results will be. Um, you'll still get really great results in terms of how many people sign up, but it means that it just stands out a little bit more in the noise of the online space. Kris: So is part of what you do is showing people how to create their own bundle and collaborate in the in, in that strategy? Kylie: So I do, um, every, every six to eight weeks, I host a free kind of workshop event called the Empire Expansion Event, where I take them through my antisocial framework. So literally it's like how to scale without social. So if you imagine a capital V. For visibility. Very original. Down one, one side, there's relationship based \[00:14:00\] strategies. So we have summits, we have bundles, we have podcast guesting, uh, freebie swaps, even networking, right? Like so all anything to do with relationships down one side, Kylie: the other. Other side is more like search and SEO. So that still has a place like the YouTube, the Pinterest, the social, if you enjoy it, the PR media, all of that still has a place as well. Your long form content, your podcasting, all of that kind of thing. So the way that I teach it is it's nice to choose one strategy from each side. So have something that is the more long term search and SEO strategy. So for me, it's my podcast. Might take a little bit longer to see the ROI, but at least then you're playing the long game. And then for those faster dopamine hits, go for something that's relationship based as well. So just choose one of those things on the relationship side. Um, give it a crack for 30, 30 days. See how it feels. And you don't have to host straight away. You could just go and participate, right? Like, be in a summit, be in a bundle, do a podcast, guesting session interview and just see how it feels. And then you make a decision what you wanna continue on for the next 30 \[00:15:00\] days. So that's kind of the way that I teach it. Kris: So beautiful. It's so refreshing. I, I really love it. I talk a lot about marketing and this. Approach feels really, really fresh and effective and very very much like, you know, choose your own adventure and stay in touch with your own knowing and your own self along the way. And you can always readjust, switch, pivot, recalibrate. I love it. Absolutely. Yeah. Tell, tell me a story about what's happened for a client of yours, someone that kind of pops to mind. Where were they when they came to you and what happened for them? Kylie: Yeah, of course. So straight away, Laura, one of my clients, she's in my mastermind, jumps in, so she's an incredible copywriter. She's super talented at Copy. Um, but when we started working together, she just wasn't, she didn't feel like she was known. Right. She didn't feel like that. \[00:16:00\] Her name was getting mentioned in room she wasn't in, and that's what she wanted. She really wanted that to be happening quite organically. So we've started working together and straight away I helped her plan a summit. So she did an audio summit. She did have little video snippets to promote it, but it was mainly through audio and straight away, like the connections that she had just from again, creating the platform and inviting people to come to speak. Um, she's now rinsed and repeated that and done that for a second time, and she's gonna be continuing that through 2026. Um, but. On top of that, then we've laid in the PR strategy. So we are getting her featured in Business Insider and Forbes and Places again, so that we have the keywords, we have the search and SEO that that the back links to our website, right, that really start to kick in as well. So when you can do things like that where it is both of those approaches, um. I mean, she's living her best life now. She's like, got so many connections. She gets emails and pictures come to her, which is what she'd always dreamed of, and was like, oh, I'm not at the cool table. Like, how do we do this? And again, \[00:17:00\] it's not about being cool or popular, it's just about the relationship piece. Um, and being strategic with who you're, who you're working with. So, yeah. And that's one of many, like, there's so many I've helped, um, women get on TEDx. There's been, there's been so many wins over the last 12 months, but that comes to mind because I'm like, I think everybody can relate to that feeling of like, not feeling cool, not feeling like you're part of the popular group. And actually, once you can create an event, a platform, it could, it could even just be like a networking call or something of your own that you're inviting people to. Suddenly it opens so many doors for you. Kris: Oh my gosh. Incredible. Yeah, I think it's really common for an entrepreneur to know they're good at what they do. But nobody else knows, like how good they are. Mm-hmm. And that can be really frustrating. Like yes we wanna be talked about in rooms when we're not there, but really we wanna be in demand. We want, more people coming to us and \[00:18:00\] wanting our help and our expertise. And I'm curious with this copywriter, did her offer end up changing once? Kylie: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the beauty, isn't it? When you have more people that are sought after you, when you are in demand more, you have to think about your business a little bit differently. You, you can't be doing all the one-to-one work when you have no spaces left or right. So yeah, she, she's definitely evolved her office suite now, more of a membership type subscription copy editing type. Offer, which is, which is beautiful 'cause she can serve more people. Um, she also has two little kids that she's about to homeschool. So like, it's worked beautifully with how her life is evolving as well. And, um, I think that's a lot to be said in just being okay that things change and knowing, giving yourself permission, right? Like to change your offers and to think about things like I used to have. Previous to all of this, I used to have a membership, a low ticket membership. It was $19 a \[00:19:00\] month that I scaled to like 250 members, and it burned me the hell out, like it was, oh, it was. So, I loved it. I absolutely loved all the women there, but like serving them deeply, I couldn't do that with that kind of volume. And at that price point, it wasn't even, it wasn't even providing enough income for my family. Like, so again, like. Giving yourself permission to like, let go of that and go, okay, actually what do I really need for the life I wanna live? What do I need to charge? And then making sure that, you know, the visibility supports that, that you are getting people that know about that offer through that pipeline. But yeah, I think it's that permission piece, right? Like it's so easy to hang on to old things just because we are comfortable. Kris: Yeah, and I think, uh, you know, as a fellow perfectionist, I am a people pleaser. Like I want to make sure that everyone is deeply supported and very happy and really feel like they're taken care of at whatever price point. So it's really \[00:20:00\] important for my own energy, and I'm sure for your own energy to like, make sure that we're compensated in a way that we feel good about. The energy exchange and mm-hmm. I love hearing about that. What, what did you end up doing? Did you close down that membership or how did you transition out of that? Kylie: Honestly, I didn't do the best job at it. If I'm completely transparent, I, um. I feel like I set fire to it and then it was heartbreaking because that's not, yeah. Like how do you navigate that when you've never done it before? Right. So I, I did increase the price point, so, but it jumped right from $19 a month to 77. So, um, people left quite quickly. This was Christmas last year, just before Christmas last year, so about 12 months ago. And. Again, not the best time to do it. Before Christmas, I had a horrible Christmas, like with all of the emotional things that happened because of the way that I navigated that. But we live and we learn, we live and we learn. \[00:21:00\] Um, but it is still going now. So I still have it running. There's about 30 members now $77 and it's, it's more of a template membership. If you, if like, if we think about it, it's more about email templates and they can submit emails for me to review more about the plan of what to send. When we are thinking about, you know, what they wanna sell or what their, what their plan is for the court, things like that. So it's, it's more of a template membership than what, what it was before, which was very much like hands-on me getting deep with them, which I couldn't do with 250 members. No. Um. Whereas now, like I've pivoted now to a mastermind model. So I have, um, my signature offer as a mastermind where, you know, I've got 10 women and I get to go really deep. I get to roll up my sleeves, I get to really help them with their business. Um, a lot of them have never been supported with that much depth before, which makes me so happy. And that feels good for me. It feels good for them, and obviously it's a price point then that helps sustain me and my business too. Which, which is important. Kris: What is the price point of your mastermind? \[00:22:00\] Kylie: Um, so it's $7,000 for six months. Um, and then they get a renewal. Yeah, a renewal offer after that. So, um, amazing. Kris: Yeah. Beautiful. I mean, and that's something, you know, if you do it right, you can make that investment back in no time, really. Yeah. Kylie: Yeah. Well, one of my ladies, Jules, she, um, made it back within a couple weeks. We did a launch together. We tweaked a few things. I supported her through a launch. We, yeah. And she made that back really quite quickly. Others, it takes longer. It depends where you start. Right. But Totally. Um, but you can, you can make that back pretty quickly. Yeah. If you have all the pieces kind of ready to go. Kris: So you shared that when you kicked off your first summit. I love that you didn't even know who, what I was doing, what you were doing. Well, you didn't, you had never done a summit before, but also you weren't really sure on who you were serving and how you were helping them. But that's the beauty of taking action, right? And just mm-hmm. Boldly. Maybe \[00:23:00\] even ignorantly, like diving in and trusting that at some ways, somehow you're gonna come out the other side with more information and more clarity. And so tell us about how that took shape. Like it, how long did it take for you to. And how did you do it? The people that I talk to the most are, have a lot of confusion around either the problem that, that they solve or the client that they wanna work with, or they're often straddling two types of clients or two types of. Offerings. So it can be really hard to get the clarity, especially when you're in your own head, trying to crack the code inside your own brain. Right. You're inside the bottle trying to read the label. That can only be read from outside, and that's the beauty of getting a coach, being in a mastermind. Mm-hmm. Getting outside guidance and perspective. So tell us about your path to clarity around \[00:24:00\] that. Kylie: I love that. And I, I just definitely agree, like I think that a lot of times, um, before I get into the story, I think a lot of times we think that confidence that we have to feel confident before we take action when actually no, no, no, it's around the wrong way. Like you take action and then you start to get clarity and feel confident. And that is exactly what happened with me. So that very first summit, it was actually called the pregnant CEO summit. So at the time I just had my second, so I was going, I was still in postpartum. And again, I was trying to build a business, raise the kids. It was so overwhelming. I, I felt like one day I was a bad mom. The next day I was a bad business owner, right? Like, it was a really tricky thing to juggle. As we know. As we know. And so I called it the Pregnancy O summit. So everybody that came, shared strategies on how they've navigated that, how have they grown their business while they've also been raising their children. Um, so there was a, it was a broad, there was a broad. Range of topics. I will say because of the topic choices of the summit, like it was a real vulnerable, beautiful space that it \[00:25:00\] curated. 'cause a lot of people were just being really real with what that journey's looked like and making sure there was something tangible. But in terms of like the ideal client at the time, like I, I didn't know I would end up here. Right? Like I'm now I'm helping women. Entrepreneurs grow their business without social, more of a business strategy place that was more of like, I just wanna help women. I know they have kids. I dunno how, but like, let's just create a space for this. And so like the 600 people that joined my email list back then, like they. Probably still be on it. Like it's much, my email list is much larger now, so I have to look at the data. But like that was still the person. 'cause my heart was for women growing businesses like me, right? I think our ideal client is often asked a few years ago or a few steps behind. So that's who that ended up being. And then as I've then evolved, you know, my office have evolved again through taking action, through the membership, through figuring out what feels good, what doesn't feel good, what people want, what people aren't really keen on. All of that action has then led me to today where I still host events, but \[00:26:00\] it's very much through the business lens. Again, attracting people that I want on my list to learn about how to grow without social. So the whole journey, it's really just like taking one action after the other and just, I almost think of it as like, um. You know, when you look through binoculars and like, it's not quite clear, it's a bit fuzzy and you gotta keep like tweaking those dials to make it clearer and clearer. Yeah. That's kind of what it's like. It's like I just kept tweaking things and you're like, oh, okay. Listening to the data, listening to the feedback in my body, tweaking, tweaking to today. That's been the whole journey really. Kris: That's incredible that's, it's so beautiful. And what I love, and you touched on this before, is just as business owners, we are humans that are ever evolving. We're growing, we're shifting, we're solving problems for our own self. We're in different phases of motherhood, or not in motherhood at all. And really like the richness comes from \[00:27:00\] following. That golden thread that was hard for you and then you overcame it, and now you're one step ahead and you can help others overcome that. And it feels like very organic and mm-hmm. Very rich because it's meaningful for you. And so you can, you can bet that it's gonna be meaningful for other people, and other people are, are struggling with it too. Kylie: I love that, and I think this is the thing for anybody that is listening, it's that permission to just. I know, I know there's so many, and this is coming from a strategist. There's so many strategies, there's so many pathways, frameworks, things that work. They all work, right? It's all about figuring what works for you. So sometimes it's not about seeking out help from all the places. It's like, okay, let's go inward. What do I want? Who do I wanna help? What have I learned over the last couple of years? What offer feels the best for me? And it's, it's when I've gone inward in \[00:28:00\] those times, rather than looking for the answers externally, that things have actually clicked and worked for me. Which has been the biggest lesson, right? Because I never used to trust my own intuition. I, I got feeling like, what is that? Like what, what are you talking about? Like, I was never the wo, wo person. So like, yeah. Seeing that happen and unfold has given me so much more self-trust. When I do make decisions, when I do make moves in my business or decide to do something, I'm like, yeah, I feel like this is the right thing. Let's just try it. Um, totally. So, yeah, for anyone listening, I think that's really important to like, go inward first and, and make sure that you give yourself permission to do that rather than looking for those answers externally all the time. Kris: Yeah. And, and another way you put that was really how did your body feel? How did your body respond? So when you talk about going inward, how do you do that? Kylie: Honestly, I just list, like, it's not even, I don't journal. I'm not really, I'm not really, like, I have started a few somatic things 'cause I have anxiety. So like, I've done a bit of EFT tapping, you know, breath work, stuff like that, which I, I \[00:29:00\] love Kylie: Yeah. It does come through when I give myself space, but honestly, at the, at the bottom of all of that, it's like having enough margin and white space in my calendar to go for a walk instead of doing, pushing something else out of the computer or it's making a choice to, to go for a swim or like just creating a little bit of white space and then things come in. Or like sitting and asking yourself like, huh, I'm thinking about doing this. What do I think? And stopping and making sure we have white space to listen to what comes up. Um, I don't think it has to be complex or hard or Yeah. It's not like some, like you have to journal properly at 5:00 AM before daybreak. Kris: or, yeah. Or it doesn't have to involve meditating, which I find impossible to do. I'm a big, um. Breath work person I love because especially if you have anxiety, which I do too, it's more active and \[00:30:00\] so it like moves the energy in a way that I find doesn't really happen with meditation. And then, um. Today I had my EFT tapping. I have an EFT tapping coach and, oh, I don't know how it works. I don't know how it works. It's magic. It like opens up things and moves. Mm-hmm. Emotions out and through and I'm a huge believer in that. So I, I love that you mentioned that. And I think another thing I wanted to kind of add on to your answer was the counterintuitive nature of the work that you do. That it doesn't have to, like, it doesn't have to feel hard, right? Sometimes it's just asking ourselves what? Feels the most delightful. What feels the most effortless? What feels the most fun, while also what is truly solving a problem for another person that's valuable to them? And I think often \[00:31:00\] we follow. We follow what we think. Is gonna pay us the most. Um, and then we kind of reverse engineer, right? Or we think the thing that's harder or requires more effort that somehow, that has more value to it. And totally. I want you to flip that coin on its head because it, it, it doesn't need to be true. It really, in fact, you'll make more money if you follow that, that joy and that spark and that that sense of effortlessness that's effortless to you, but maybe not so much to somebody else. Kylie: Yeah, I love that. I think that's the best thing about being women growing businesses is that we get to do it differently. It doesn't like, and look, there's time for hard work. There's a time to like, you know, where I put in more hours because they'll have a deadline. Like there is the time for that. But. Yeah, this, this thought \[00:32:00\] about being in tune to what feels fun, what feels effortless for us, what lights us up, what makes us excited. Even just like knowing yourself, you know, whether you're a fan of human design or like, you know, just knowing. Yourself intimately is going to be so beneficial. 'cause then exactly what you were saying, it's like what does feel fun? What lights you up? And just following those prompts will never lead you astray, will never lead you, lead you wrong and will lead to more revenue because people are attracted to that energy. Rather than thinking you have to push through. Like, we don't have to do that anymore. Kris: We don't have to do that anymore. And the, you talked about your, your kind of the V right? And then the, the other aspect of that was the visibility and the. What was the other search? An SEO. Kris: SEO. Okay. So and then pick one from each category. Right. And my model around that, which I feel like is very much in alignment, is really this \[00:33:00\] visual of the, of the, of your marketing universe. Right? So the sun in your universe is your website. That is really. The most powerful tool that can sell for you. It can tell your story. It's really kind of like your home on the internet and the home of your business. And then there are planets around the sun that circle around there, and those. Are what I call your marketing activities. Those are, it could be SEO, it could be podcast guesting, it could be in-person events, um, it could be paid ads, right? And the people that I talk to feel like they need to be on every planet. And what I like to tell people to do is. And there's so much relief that comes when they learn this. It's like pick two planets. Just pick two planets. Like for example, my planets are podcasting. This is fun. I look forward \[00:34:00\] to it. It's effortless. I love talking about this stuff, and I love meeting new people. So podcasting is one of my planets. And then email. Emailing my list is the other planet, and I just keep in touch with my people and I don't worry about everything else. I, I don't wanna be on social media. Granted, I enjoy Instagram from an entertainment standpoint, but I don't wanna be working on Instagram, so I have. Really given myself the freedom to pick those two planets, and I love letting my clients off the hook with that too. It's such a relief because the way the messaging comes through, like you said, there's endless strategies that you can implement. Most of them work great, but is it sustainable to be trying to do all of those things and mm-hmm. We want your business to \[00:35:00\] be supporting you and your life and giving you freedom. And I think so often we become self-employed. We don't feel free, and we keep thinking, if we implement that next strategy, then I'm gonna have the freedom, then I'm gonna have the financial abundance. And there is, to your point, just there's another way. Kylie: Yeah. Oh a hundred percent. I love that. I love, and I love the alignment we have in the way that we, we teach and mentor our clients. 'cause that's so similar and I think just. Remembering as well. Just to add to that, like remembering why you started the business in the first place, right? Like and back to the self-trust, like also trusting that if you are doing, if you're following, what feels good, if you're following what's in alignment, if you're, if you are like reaching out, building relationship, like the money will come. The money will come. It will. Yeah. So all you need to do is take the action, you'll feel confident, take \[00:36:00\] the action, release the pressure, do what feels good, and trust that. Yeah, the money will come. Kris: Kylie, it has been such a delight to have you here today. Before we hop off, if you had one piece of advice to give to our listeners, what would it be? Kylie: Ooh, I love this. Start a conversation today. Think about somebody that is in your network already that you've either done something with before. Maybe it's a past client, maybe it's a past collaborator. Maybe it's just somebody that you liked their energy on a networking goal, like it doesn't have. Don't overthink it. Just pick one person. Go and start a conversation as a human being. Ask them how their year's been. Let's jump on a coffee chat and. Just get used to having more conversations because in the long run you'll be happier, you'll have more friends, and your business will be happier as well. Kylie: Yeah, so my, my son is my \[00:37:00\] website kylie kelly.com. Nice and easy. Um, and on there as well, I will mention if you are wanting more information about these different strategies and you want your own plan, I actually have a really sexy AI bot that I created. 'cause AI is like all the rage, right? Called Strategic Planner Sally. And what you can do with her is you can literally brain dump what you like. What you don't like, what you've tried, what your life is like at the moment, what your capacity is and she will give you one from each side of my V to go and try for 30 days. Um, so the link to her is on my website or it's just kylie kelly.com/sally. But start there 'cause that'll really help you get started. Oh, Kylie: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you \[00:38:00\] next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/resources ### Title: Resources ### Page ID: 8731992 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/close-discovery-calls-without-being-salesy ### Title: Close More Discovery Calls (Without Being Salesy) ### Page ID: 8741739 ### Content: Can I tell you about a pattern I used to see all the time? A discovery call would end and I'd think, "That went so well!" The potential client seemed excited. We clicked. They said they'd be in touch. For the longest time, I thought the problem was me. Maybe I wasn't explaining my services well enough. Maybe I needed to be more convincing. The issue wasn't that I wasn't selling hard enough. It was that I didn't have a structure that made it easy for the right people to say yes. In this week's episode, I'm sharing the exact 9-step framework I now use to close 80% of my discovery calls. No pushing. No convincing. No icky sales tactics. ? How to take control of the call in the first 60 seconds ? The "slingshot" technique that gets clients to sell themselves ? What to say when you hear "I need to think about it" Your calls should feel like conversations, not performances. CTC Ep. 62 | Close More Discovery Calls (Without Being Salesy) \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Speaker: Today we're gonna solve a very important problem. So imagine this, you're on a discovery call and the conversation feels good, the potential client seems interested, and then you share them what it would cost to work with you, and they say. Let me think about it then you never hear from them again. Most coaches and consultants lose clients on discovery calls because nobody taught them a structure to make it easy for people to say yes, and that's what we're gonna do today.Typical discovery calls look like this. You talk about yourself, you explain your service. You talk about how you're different. Maybe you \[00:01:00\] drop your price and then you hope that they buy. You end up pushing, convincing, you feel like you're selling and you're exhausting yourself. Nobody wants to feel like they're selling. I know you don't want to do that. And your potential clients don't wanna be sold to. I'm here to tell you there is a better way. A story-driven approach where your prospect sells themselves on working with you. In this video, I'm gonna share the exact nine step framework that I use to close 80% of my discovery calls. You're gonna learn what to say, when to say it, and how to help the right people say yes with confidence. So let's get into it. So first, why do discovery calls matter so much? You spend hours on marketing to get somebody to book with you in your calendar. You prepare for the call, you show up, and maybe they ghost you. I've seen service providers book 10 calls and close \[00:02:00\] zero calls because the structure set them up to fail. Great calls help people decide confidently by understanding their problem. Showing them success and then positioning your service as the bridge to those two things. This framework changes everything. The right people say yes, the wrong people filter themselves out and you stop chasing. Think about it like when you visit a doctor, they don't open with, here's my treatment, it costs $500. They ask questions, they listen, they diagnose, then they recommend, and you follow their advice because they took the time to understand you first. Your discovery calls work the same way you diagnose. Before you prescribe. So you wanna stop convincing and start guiding. Be that expert who understands their situation, helps them see their future, and shows them a clear path forward. Now I'm gonna walk you through exactly how I structure my discovery \[00:03:00\] calls step by step.That first minute will set the tone for everything. You are gonna say something like, okay, I'd like to set some expectations for our call 'cause we have a lot to cover in a relatively short period of time. So first I'm gonna ask you some questions and really understand where you are, where you wanna go. If I can help. I'm gonna walk you through what working together would look like if I don't think I'm the right fit for you, I'm gonna tell you and point you in the right direction. Sound good? So right there, you have taken control. You have stepped into this call as the guide in the story. You've shown them what to expect, and you've given yourself permission to lead the conversation. Step two, you're gonna ask. So what's happening right now? Why is now the time to explore getting help? Why now? This uncovers the urgency and tells you what's driving them. Maybe they've lost a client, maybe they're burning out, maybe they saw a \[00:04:00\] competitor pass them by. Who knows? Maybe they're struggling with parenting. Maybe they are wanting to lose weight. Maybe they're wanting to get that next promotion. Who knows What we're doing here is really finding out if this is an urgent thing that they want to solve. In step three, you're gonna ask, why me? This might look like out of all the people you could have reached out to, what was it about me that resonated with you? This question does two things. It tells you what's working in your marketing, and it lets them sell themselves on you. When they say, I loved your approach, I. Really loved how clear you were. I loved how confident you were. I liked the sound of your program. I listened to your podcast. They're reinforcing their own decision to work with you. You don't have to convince them you're good because they're literally telling you why they already believe it. Okay? So step four, how do you get them to open up about their \[00:05:00\] problems? You are gonna ask, what's the most frustrating part of this situation right now? Then let them talk. Don't interrupt, don't rush. Just listen. When they finish, ask. And how's that affecting you? What does that feel like day to day? You're really what I call pulling back the slingshot. Here were really getting into their struggle, getting into their problem, and you're getting to listen, you know, and really hear what's going on for them. But also they're reminding themselves about this problem, which is actually a good thing. 'cause they're gonna be more likely to wanna solve it once they're reminded of the problem. So the more tension you create around the problem, the more momentum you have when you talk about your solution. Okay. Step five, what does success look like for them? You're gonna ask them if we fast forward six months from now and everything's working. Your problem has been solved, we've waved a magic wand and solved your problem. What does \[00:06:00\] your day-to-day look like? What's happening in your life? Let them paint a picture for you. What's different? How do they feel? What are they doing now that they couldn't do before? I call this shooting the slingshot forward. They're imagining the life your service is gonna create for them. This is the vision you'll connect your offer to later. Alright, so moving right along. Step six is called Echo Back. All you're gonna do is summarize what they just told you. Say, let me make sure I heard you right. You're frustrated by this. It's making you feel this way. It. This is really what's at stake. This is what it's costing you. You're struggling here, you're frustrated by that, but what you're really wanting to create. Is this is when you repeat the things that they told you that they want their vision of success. What you really want is to sleep well at night. You want to wake up energized. You want to love your job again. Whatever it is they told you \[00:07:00\] that they want, you're just gonna echo it right back to them. And then you're gonna ask, did I get that right? And they're gonna say, yeah, exactly. And then you're gonna say, is there anything that I missed? What this does is really help them feel heard. It also allows you to make sure that you are listening well and that you're really gathering everything that you need to gather from the call. Then you're gonna step in just like the doctor would at the doctor's office, and you'd say, okay. if this is something that you're ready to solve, here's how I recommend you solve it. You're gonna connect their problem to your solution. So you're gonna say, based on everything you've shared, here's what I recommend. Then you're gonna walk them through your service. Keep it simple. Three parts works really well. First. You're gonna, we're gonna have a kickoff call. We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. Then we're gonna move into phase two of our pro program or project. And then step three, you're \[00:08:00\] gonna end up here. So you're gonna just high level, walk them through what your process look looks like. You're gonna map your offer to their goals. If they said they wanted more clients. Explain how your service will get them more clients. If they said they wanted freedom, explain how your service will give them that freedom. And then step eight. I call it this step, the temperature check. How do you know if they're ready before talking about price? So this is where you're gonna ask, on a scale of one to 10, how does this feel for you? One being, this isn't for me, and 10 being, yeah, this is exactly what I need. If they say eight, you're gonna go, oh, that's perfect. That's great. Okay. Tell me. What's keeping this from being a 10? Why an eight? And they're gonna go, well, you know, my husband just lost his job, or, my kids are about to get outta school for this summer. Who knows what they're gonna come up with. But, they might say it \[00:09:00\] might be an issue with your offer. Oh, the offer, I, it, it doesn't. You know, I'm looking for something that, uh, will only take three months, not four months, whatever it is they're gonna share with you their objection. What a gift that you have just asked the right question to open up the conversation to hear their objections. That allows you to handle their objections in real time on the call so you can let them know, oh, don't worry we can start in the fall once summer is over, or you just handle those objections anyway you can. Okay. Step nine. How do you close the call? This is really about next steps.Once they're at a nine or a 10 in the temperature scale, you're gonna share the investment with them. Once you've shared the cost of your program, what I like to do is I like to give them two options. I say, here's the cost of working with me. And actually don't call it a cost, I call it an investment 'cause it really is an investment in themselves. So I say, \[00:10:00\] here is the investment. Here's what it is. You've got a two payment option and a one payment option. With a one payment option. You save $400 or we can, break it up into multiple payments. Which of those options would work best for your budget? And they'll say, well, actually, I'd like to pay in full and save a little money. So that way they feel like they have agency and choice within the conversation. Then what you're gonna do is take their initial deposit on the call. I know you're shocked to hear this or you cringe about this part of the call, but let me tell you, they want to work with you. They want people like to spend money, especially if that money is solving an important problem. So you're gonna take the initial deposit on the call. I always say, okay, we're gonna take the initial payment now, so no rush, I'll just \[00:11:00\] wait here while you go get your credit card. And they go get it. And then they come back. Sometimes they'll say. Um, well, I need to think about it or I need to talk to my husband. And if they do that, of course they can take the time that they need. I'll email them a link and and they can pay me on their own time. But I always give them the first initial opportunity to pay right there on the call. Okay, so let's dig in a little bit further to the, I need to think about it. Objection. You can say, I totally understand. Let's get a follow up call on the calendar so I can answer any questions that come up between now and then. Then offer a couple of times. I have Thursday at two, I have Friday at 10. Which one works best for you? And then schedule that next check-in call. So it's the calendar and you know you're not gonna get, get ghosted. Okay. We've just been through kind of a lot together here, so I'm just gonna quickly recap so it's fresh in your mind. Step one, set \[00:12:00\] expectations. Take control of the call. Step two. Why now uncover the urgency? Step three. Why me? Let them sell themselves on you? What was it that resonated with you about me? Step four. What's frustrating to you right now? What's the most frustrating thing about this problem to you right now? This is where you pull back the slingshot and really listen to their struggle. Then in step five, what does success look like for them? Waving that magic wand. In a perfect world, what is happening for them in their life, that's when we are gonna shoot this slingshot forward and really paint a picture of a brighter future for them. Step six, just echo back their frustration, echo back their success, and their hopes and their dreams, and really just help them know that you are listening and that you've heard them. And then step seven, here's what I'd recommend. You're gonna \[00:13:00\] connect your offer to their goals, you're gonna position your offer as a solution to their problem. Step eight, you're gonna do a temperature check. On a scale of one to 10, how does this recommendation sound to you? One, being not a fit at all, 10 being, yes, this is exactly what I need. And then step nine is next steps. You take payment, you give them the payment option, and if they tell you they need to think about it, you schedule a call before hanging up. What should somebody do to improve their discovery calls? What I don't want you to do is memorize. This. Just print it out, write it down, write down the steps, print it out, or print it out and keep it in front of you during your next few calls. I will tell you, I have been doing this method for literally years. I always pull up my cheat sheet so I don't have to think about it, and I follow the flow. It will feel awkward at first. I \[00:14:00\] promise that is so normal. But by the fifth time you do it it'll become much, much more natural. The best discovery calls feel like conversations where you help somebody see their problem clearly. You help them imagine the future that they want vividly, and you help them take the next step confidently. You're guiding. You wanna be the Yoda, let them be the Luke bringing it back to story here. Let them be the Luke. And let you be the guide, the Yoda. Now go get some calls booked and close those clients. You've got this. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/whats-really-blocking-your-coaching-sales ### Title: What's Really Blocking Your Coaching Sales (It's Not Strategy) with Kanika Vasudeva ### Page ID: 8777268 ### Content: What's Really Blocking Your Coaching Sales (It's Not Strategy) with Kanika Vasudeva I just dropped a new episode and I'm still thinking about it. I interviewed Kanika Vasudeva, an Akashic Records expert who helps coaches hit consistent $10-15K months. And she said something that made me pause the recording in my head: "If we haven't paid for the transformation, we cannot receive transformation." It completely reframed how I think about pricing. And if you've ever felt guilty about charging what you're worth, this conversation will feel like permission to finally stop shrinking. ? Why your natural gifts feel "too easy" to charge for (and why that's the problem) ? The energetic reason undercharging actually blocks your client's results ? What Kanika calls the "f\*ck it attitude" that she sees in every client right before the money starts flowing Kanika also shared her personal story of loss and how it led her to this work. It's powerful. What's Really Blocking Your Coaching Sales (It's Not Strategy) with Kanika Vasudeva CTC Ep. 63 | What's Really Blocking Your Coaching Sales (It's Not Strategy) with Kanika Vasudeva \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Kris: I am so excited to bring to you today Kanika Vasudeva. She is an Akashic Records expert and she helps business owners and coaches really shortcut their way to success, right? We are navigating this path on our own most of the time, and we weave left, we weave, right, and eventually we get to where we wanna go. But Kanika is somebody who can really give you what she calls a cheat sheet or a shortcut to your path to purpose. So Kanika, welcome to the show. I'm delighted to have you here today. Kanika: Thank you, Kris. I'm so looking forward to our \[00:01:00\] conversation today as well. Kris: Me too, me too. So tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you get into this work and what do you do? Kanika: So I help coaches make consistent 10 to 15 K months in their coaching business. If you have a calling and you feel like you need to bring it out in the world, but you're sort of not taking the step or you're taking it and it's, it's a bit of a side hustle and you're struggling with it, you really do wanna make it profitable, then my purpose and deepest desire is to help you have that profitable, sustainable business. Because when you expand, when you spread your light, then the whole world shines with you. Kris: Mm. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. So you had shared, before we hit record, you had shared that a lot of your clients are just getting started or have been thinking about this for a while, and that when they work with you, you can really get them on track to doing this work as a coach \[00:02:00\] full-time in ballpark. Kanika: Yes. So three months is when there's usually making about five KA month, and that is like literally having no idea, but they're going from, and then usually they. 10 K, 12 K, 15 k months start happening in six months. So it's a beautiful journey and I shortcut that. I'll give you a snippet of what we do. It starts with the first session that we have. Um, and typically my clients at this stage will be the ones who know that they're supposed to step into a calling. They might be sometimes unsure about their craft, and a lot of times they're sure about their craft, but they just don't know exactly what portion, what modality, how to package it so that it comes out. For example, reiki healing could be for various things. It could be for animals, could be for kids. How do they package their services sometimes while they're learning, because we all are lifelong learners, and how do they bring it to the market so that people really get it? My job becomes \[00:03:00\] combining that modality, that understanding of what they have and what they truly bring to the table. So my cheat sheet method is that I am an Akashic Records reader. I guide them on a journey to see their next level, like literally see their next level. So we see the next level higher self version, we tap into what it's doing. What it's talking about, how it's li living the day, what are the ideal clients? What is that conversation looking like? How are they really promoting the message? So you see it's a cheat sheet. We go and we spend as much time as we want to there. We explore different aspects and I'll keep guiding them till we really get the whole essence around the ideal client. Like who are they first meant to serve? How are they meant to serve it? Who are the clients who are listening to them? How are the clients feeling, but more importantly, like what is it that clients are taking from them? So for example, the healer could be thinking, oh, should I heal? Should I really focus on \[00:04:00\] people who are feeling very stuck and depressed right now? Should I work with parents more? There could be so many different things and pulls that they have because we've gone through our life and we've all had lots of experiences. But it helps you really tune and hone into your messaging and that way we are shortcutting. Our way from point A to point B, like that place where people will really listen to you, that message, that purposeful part of you, that everybody will resonate. We just go there quicker because we see that vision and we lock that in and the following sessions after that because now we've got the energetic cheat sheet. Then it's just bringing that strategy, the alignment, the tactical steps to it, and then there's more real world practical guidance. Um, so it's a beautiful combination. I sort of never knew how all of my story weaved together, but I'm an MBA and engineer by background, very structured, very methodical. And then I have this mystical side, which is very \[00:05:00\] deep, and I can pull both of them together, bring that real version forward for my clients, help them see it so that they're moving forward quickly. Kris: Incredible. Incredible. Okay, I wanna rewind for a minute because I know what Akashic records are. I've had Akashic record readings, but a lot of people don't know that word. Right? I am sure you talk to people who are like, what is Akashic? What, what even is that number one? And then I also wanna ask you like, how did you go from being an engineer into really this very, um, deeply kind of spiritual mystical path? Um, so let's start with Akashic. Record one, one-on-one. Kanika: Akashik records are your soul's library of everything. Like, literally think of anything and everything that happened in your life and they hold all of that information. Um, you could think of your life, your relationships, your education, your teachers, your parents. It holds all of that information. \[00:06:00\] And that is just one chapter of your AK records. Um, like maybe your book has thousand pages, and that is probably just literally one chapter, maybe 10, 15, 20 pages, right? But there's a whole lot of your soul's essence, your story, how you've been evolving, why you ever took your first form, and why you've been. Coming here on earth, like who you are, bigger as a purpose. So we tap into that soul essence and that story can be a lot different. It resonates deeply. But you start understanding, okay, why am I here on this life? What is my purpose? Truly like, um, it reconnects you to the real authenticity or the deeper why of you. And if you see across multiple businesses that are successful, and I'm talking about big brands here, you'll always see a purpose thread running through them. Why they're doing what they're doing, how they're connected with the humanity. What is it that is serving and bringing into the \[00:07:00\] world. So when we connect you to that deeper purpose of who you truly are, um, for example, with my clients, yesterday I was talking to, um, a lady and I was just telling her. That she's really meant to bring a lot more harmony and a lot more love into the world, like the way she can speak and she can see patterns with a lot of people. She can just pick them very quickly. And she has a very beautiful way of being able to even talk to different sides of the same situation. Like even if there's a legal battle, she can actually talk to both of them and really pull them forward on their aligned path, like reducing conflict. And that's her purpose. And she was like, yes, I actually have people from, you know, different nationalities, different like really different religions. Everything's different. And she can really do that. But once you know that that's your strength, and that strength could be different for everybody. But once you know what your unique essence, your strength is, you can really bring that in more deeply as a coach, you can resonate from that. So that's the \[00:08:00\] power of the Akashic records. It tells you about your deeper why. It really anchors you to your deeper purpose on earth. And so that's just, it's um, it is like being reconnected with your inner light. So when they come to me, if I give you a visual in the beginning, maybe they're like a little candle. And when we start working together, they're actually connected with the lighthouse that's inside them. Kris: Mm. That's beautiful. You know, I talk a lot about the coach, the business owner, the consultant. Has a hard time figuring out their purpose, their message, their offering. There are so many decisions that need to be made, and they all need to be made from a very core, aligned place. I call it, you know, it could be a strong foundation, right? That everything is built upon. And when you get clear on that foundation, everything else ripples out so much more easily \[00:09:00\] because it's. All aligned with that thread. And one of the metaphors I love to use is, as a coach or consultant, we're really, we're so close to ourselves that we're inside of a bottle trying to read the label. That can only be read from outside that reality. No one's immune to it, you know, we're all just so close to our own selves. So writing about things or getting clarity about our purpose is so hard. And so often we need a coach or a consultant or a thought partner to come in, look at our bottle, and read that label that we are just too close to. And so. Your work and my work really, there's a beautiful overlap of a Venn diagram. Um, because we, we do a similar type of work in such different ways, and what I wanted to share is that, you know, when you're your own business, um, it's often hard to figure out what your purpose is. And I \[00:10:00\] think when things come very easily to us or they're just natural, like this woman's ability to dissolve conflict and get people in alignment and propel them forward, um, that probably comes so easily to her that she wouldn't even identify that as a strength, let alone a purpose. But it sounds like this work that you're doing really brightens that light that I love that visual, but also just, uh, clears the fog around. Acknowledging and validating the beautiful gifts that you already have. I think often we put value on the things that we find hard to do or are effortful for us, but really the value and the, the way you can really make more money and be more sustainable with your energy and time is to really hone in on those natural gifts and really get aligned with your purpose. And then all those dominoes fall effortly effortlessly after that. Kanika: \[00:11:00\] Absolutely. It connects them with their deeper purpose and deeper purpose for all of us is to serve the world, to bring a message out into the world, and the more they do it, it is a be, it is literally like a candle, and then you know, really growing brighter and becoming the lighthouse because in that they're really recognizing their own inner power There. Offering, like what they mean to the world, who it is that they deeply, truly are. Because business growth is directly proportional to your inner growth, especially if it is a hot led business. So the more they're able to tune into themselves and actually tap into who they truly are into their core strength, to their core gifts, the more they're able to shine brighter. And it is like the lighthouse as well in the sense that people are able to see them more because their messaging gets very clear. Once you know that this is what you truly, deeply meant for. So for example, a Reiki healing and just like putting up a banner that, hey, I'm a reiki healer, \[00:12:00\] that will have a different impact vis-a-vis saying that, you know, my purpose is to help animals and I do it because of that, it just gets a lot more. Um, ice, because you are, first of all, you're now drawing only the animal people who are wanting to do reiki, healing with animals. So that's your target client. Mm-hmm. And then this is what I work with, like another client I worked with, uh, she's an astrologer, and we were looking at what are the astrology readings that she should put out. And normally when you look at Ash, the histology readings, it's like, okay, you'll have a natal birth chart and you'll have this. Whereas her gift is around really helping people move out from a stuck place and give them clarity around their next steps. So we said, okay, her offer is that she'll do, she'll use astrology to help you out of your life transitions and give you clarity there. But if somebody is stuck or feeling like, oh, you know, I've gotta change something, I don't quite know what, and there's an offer that just says. Well, there's a natal reading or there's an astrology reading, whether it be something that really speaks to \[00:13:00\] what you truly want, you just gravitate there. So the lighthouse effect also is that multiple people get drawn to them because everybody else is seeing the light more. Like you can't see the candle as much. It, it'll have a limited, uh, radius spread. Yeah. Yeah. And the lighthouse will just draw a lot more people. Kris: Right, right, right. Naturally, naturally much more visible, much more magnetic. Right. Yes. Like my clients. Kanika: Go ahead. It's so clear. Uh, sorry I cut you off. That's good. But my clients get so clear that they'll just have conversations. They'll get clients while they're grocery shopping, while they're getting for a haircut because the offer, what they're bringing, that just gets so exciting, so inspiring, and it's so truthful to them. It's not selling, but they'll convert, uh, when they go and just have a haircut. Kris: Right, right. Just truly effortlessly. You're just going through your day and people are wanting to give you money. Let's talk about money for a minute. \[00:14:00\] Um, one thing that I've learned in the last few years is that there isn't a limited amount of money in the world. There isn't like a definitive amount of money. I mean, number one, the government prints money whenever it wants to, but, but energetically, right? I think culturally, anyway, I was brought up to think there's a, there's a certain amount of money and if I'm making a lot of money, I am potentially taking money away from somebody else. And I, I, I know differently now, right? I, I don't, I think of it so differently. Um, but. It's easy to get kind of caught in that, and I think especially as a heart led business, right, coach, consultant, if you are doing something that is aligned with your purpose, you are a heart led business. And when people are doing really good work and they're really serving the world and they're making the world a better place, I think there's \[00:15:00\] often a contradiction internally or like a riff around if I'm really a good person, if I'm really trying to make the world a better PR place, I should make it really, really, really affordable. Or, you know, uh, just not earn the abundance that I want or deserve. Right? There's this sense of, um. That, yeah, just that, you know, I'm doing good work, so I should essentially do it for practically free. And, um, there's a, a podcast that I listen to called The Spiritual Investor and she, she is fantastic, I highly recommend it, but her whole mission is to get more money in the hands of good people, because good people are the ones that are gonna change the world, but money is such a powerful tool to help good people change the world. And right now all the money is in the hands of people, most of \[00:16:00\] it anyway, in the hands of people that like maybe aren't the, the best controlling the, the, the best representatives of like, just here to make a positive impact on the world. So I wanna hear, I've just talked a lot. Tell me what your thoughts about that. Kanika: Well, first of all, I just wanted to say the thank you because you've brought a lot of the reservations around money. You know, we can think that money is hard to earn. We can think that money is limited, especially as spiritual heart led owners. We could think that, oh, this is a service. I'm meant to serve the world, so shouldn't I do it for free. Um, money is very interesting. Um, and, uh, we'll talk about my background later. Uh, but I'm an engineer by background, so I've sort of studied money. It's been very interesting. I've seen it in the corporate life and I've climbed. The soc, the corporate ladder there to get a lot more money. Then I've gone into a spiritual business. I've taken that strategic mindset and come here and looked at money and realized, oh gosh, it's just \[00:17:00\] very different in a spiritual world because I can apply the same thing and let's say a traditional 3D world where you're selling a product, the brick and mortar world, and it behaves differently, and then you bring it to this place where you're wanting to ripple out positive effects, positive transformation, and it just behaves differently, like what's going on. Money is a frequency of exchange. Once upon a time, however that worked through, there was a barter system. People were perhaps exchanging animals, exchanging other things in terms of the service or the product that they were giving, right? And then later on down the line. That became money, or the coins or the dollar bills that we, but fundamentally, it is a frequency of exchange. And what that means is that even with all the goodness of your heart, when you just really bring something out into the world and you say, okay, I'm going to offer it for free, \[00:18:00\] you've taken that conversion away. The frequency of exchange away, and the person who's receiving it gets it for free. So you want the transformation to happen, but you see the energy has not exchanged here. If I look at my inbox, I can tell you even now that there are lots of freebies, good freebies that I've signed up for and have not opened them. And I'll perhaps ask this question from the listeners, and I want you to think of things as well where you have just done some impulse purchase and you've got something, it was slightly small amount. You didn't think much of it, it looked pretty. And then have you ever had things that you've just come back home and you've sort of never looked at it, you bought it, but you never looked at it. So that tells us, because I asked this question with my clients as well, the ones who really want the service to be affordable, and everybody says yes to that. And we do this because there has not \[00:19:00\] been an exchange there. I have not brought into the transformation. It was just so easy. But the transformation I haven't bought, the transformation I cannot receive. Kris: Mm. And I've watched this. Wow. Wait, let's just, will you repeat that one more time? That is so cool. Ke do it again. Kanika: If we haven't brought the transformation, if we haven't purchased the transformation, we haven't entered that frequency of transformation. We cannot receive transformation. Kanika: If we haven't paid for money, if we haven't paid for the transformation, we are really not able to accept it, have it inside us, because we just have not stretched ourselves to have that transformation. Kris: Right. And we have no skin in the game. Right. Like I tell my clients, you're actually doing your. Potential clients a favor by charging \[00:20:00\] a solid amount of money. A good amount of money. Right? Because then they are way more likely to experience that transformation if they have skin in the game, right? You come as a coach, you usually come with years of experience and natural talent that you're, you're contributing to this exchange, but the receiver is not able to fully receive it unless they have given you money. Kanika: Exactly. The coaching is happening at that time. When they are taking that money out, it's a little stretch. It's expansion again, think of that whole thing energetically when you're pulling money out and it feels a little uncomfortable, you're actually moving out of your comfort zone. The biggest transformation starts happening then when money exchanges hands. Kris: Wow. I love talking about money for this reason. Like it's so fascinating. It's one thing on the surface \[00:21:00\] and it's so much more underneath. And I played Monopoly as a kid, and so like I learned about money in that way, and I still think of it in many ways as a really fun game. It doesn't have to be so loaded. Kanika: It is not. It is not. Money is the frequency of fun. It wants to play. That's why it wants to go out, buy, do things, you know, different. There's, there's so much that you can do with money. You can be on a luxury yacht. You can go out, travel, you can just pay for your groceries. Uh, like money goes to a lot of spaces. It wants to experience play, and money by itself is a neutral energy. So that the conditioning, the programs that we attach to it, that, Hey, I need to work hard to deserve money. Money is not really thinking that money was neutral. Money was just like, well, you were overflowing. You're giving so much money is just meant to exchange. It is just a currency of exchanging and it wants to bring you joy wants to bring that abundance to you, and \[00:22:00\] hence, money also becomes that journey of self-worth. How worthy do you think you are? So I'll tell you a shift between my clients, like when. I know, I know when they're going to start making money, and this will happen before they've signed their clients, but I know that they're on the verge and this is gonna shift, right? They've been doing a coaching business and it's not selling, it's not working. And then there's a shift, and then they make money, and then they have clients coming into them and suddenly they're having those rockstar 5K months and then pulling up to seven K, 10 k months. And it happens consistently. And I know that shift and that shift always is, first of all, they get really worthy about themselves, about the services that they're doing, and they're not doubting that. They're like, mm-hmm, I got it. This is what I'm meant to do, and this is why bringing that purpose forward for them really helps. The second shift that they have is that there is. In a beautiful way. There is a fuck it attitude. Kanika: The fuck it \[00:23:00\] attitude is that I don't care what happens. This is my part, this is what I'm going to do. And it unfolds in different ways. So initially they might have been holding back, probably not saying the full truth, maybe sometimes holding back from social media, but really not saying who they're meant to be there. Like they're, they're sort of wanting to embody that leadership, but they're not fully getting there. And then there's this place where like, this is who I am, this is what I think, and this is what I'm gonna do. And this is a full on badass attitude. This attitude is like, I am in this, this is my calling. Like, you know, fully in it, it's not another. Another thing, this is what I'm doing fully. This is my path. And they fully own it. They're going to completely step into their purpose. And so with that, when they're talking about money or when they're talking to prospective clients, the messaging is just very different. Well, this is who I am. That's like, they've got that lighthouse going for them. Mm-hmm. And that's where the people come in and it's just sometimes. Um, \[00:24:00\] it's even hard then to pick out how are people finding you, because it'll be amazing stories. Like randomly they meet someone, or the hairstylist that I was talking about, that they'll just meet people. And those conversions happen for two reasons. They happen because they've gotten very clear on their messaging. They've really aligned now to their inner essence, what they're meant to bring out, but also they glow so much. The magnetism is so much that people just get drawn to them, the right aligned clients. Kris: Mm, mm-hmm. That clarity and that confidence. Right. It's just like it's a superpower. So when you get on a call with a potential client. What are they complaining about? I'm gonna guess, I'm gonna guess one thing. Are they frustrated and having a hard time selling their offer? And if that's true, why is that happening for them? Because that's, that's happening a lot around, you know, around in the coaching and consulting space. So why do coaches have a hard time selling their offer, in your opinion? Kanika: biggest thing that I find is, and it goes back to your original point, you know, when \[00:25:00\] we wanna make the services affordable, um, it's also that they are not feeling worthy enough about themselves, that they're stepping into the coaching. It's like, maybe I don't wanna do it. Maybe I'm not the right person to do it. I'm leaving the safety of something that I know. So it's stepping into leadership themselves. You see, as a coach, you might not fully embrace it yet, but you're actually stepping into leadership. Kanika: to be that leader. Mm-hmm. You are, by essence, you're leading means people are following you. You are following a new path, and you have to be that confident, clear yourself that this is where we are going, this is how we are headed. So it starts with your own inner leadership, your own inner self worth first journey is that, and then that's how it then ripples outside? I have rarely, no. I have not met any client who's not raised their prices. Mm-hmm. And they might be starting from a really low ball offer, and then they go on \[00:26:00\] to the higher offer because this is, they understand the value of the transformation that they bring. So that's one of the bigger shifts. Around the services, but also I'll, I'll answer here also around affordability. Because right now people are thinking that, well, I still want to be affordable. I really wanna reach the masses. You can, you definitely should do that. But start with the high ticket offer first. Because first of all, when you get really used to being, owning your energy to be drawing in good amount of money, you'll be able to draw in people who are ready for the transformation. Yeah. And then from there, even if people genuinely cannot make your high ticket offer, and you offer that, you offer some portion of that as a more affordable service, they'll be able to climb the ladders and see you there. But start, don't reduce your own value and your own transformation that you can bring to the client by putting on the glasses. Of their story of what you think might be true \[00:27:00\] in their world. Like you as the coach, as the leader, get to stand up in a higher place and hold that place for them that I hold the highest transformation for you. That's my vision for you. That's your job as a leader. That's your job as a coach. You stand and you help them climb up rather than meeting them on the bottom stairs. Kris: Right. That's beautiful. Yeah. I, um, I was recently coaching a client of mine who is stepping into coaching again. She has taken a hiatus, gone into corporate for like a decade now, stepping back into coaching and she is. Having a lot of doubts about herself. And we talked the other day and she, she is a coach to mothers who are in the thick of a, a basically an abusive relationship with their ex. And, um, in these situations, the X is broadcasting a story that is not \[00:28:00\] true, but in gen it's called coercive control. I'm, I've learned a lot about it. And, um, and these, nobody believes the mom's version of this story. And, um, and culturally we're not set up to even acknowledge that this is invisible abuse. And anyway, she called and she is like, I don't know. I'm just having so many doubts and I, you know, I wanna fix, I wanna fix the problem for the, these moms. And. I said to her through our work together and my understanding of, of the, the power of her essence and her purpose, which is what I kind of is, my gift I would say, is to really, really see that and bring it forth. And I said, your job is not to fix your clients. That is not your job. You are here to believe them, to validate them, to listen \[00:29:00\] to them, and to help them navigate this not alone, which they have been navigating it alone in isolation and all of that for her. That's just a no-brainer. Like that's effortless for her. And so it's harder for her to put a value on that, and she is attaching that. She has to somehow fix something when really it's an inside job. Kanika: Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up. Because your inner growth is directly proportional to your business growth. You have to first heal the layers. A lot of what your clients bring through your job is not to fix them, but your job is to look inside and heal that bit in yourself. Because the question I would ask her is, where is this part of her that's sitting where she feels validated because she's fixing someone else, and how can she bring her power back \[00:30:00\] to herself? Because truly as coaches, all you've gotta do is be the lighthouse. Stand on top of the hill. You light, you light up, you shine. Like the lighthouse is not. Lighthouse knows that the boats will come and go. Boats will find their direction. The lighthouse is not chasing the boats. Lighthouse is just there, just doing its job, just shining the light. And that's all that lighthouse has to do. Lighthouse does not move around. The boats does not go like, Hey, you should have been here. I was waiting for you. Lighthouse just stays on the top of the hill. Lighthouse just stays, and that's all that we've gotta do as coaches. Just be the light. Be so grounded, be so rooted in our purpose, our service to the world, that we do not compromise what our clients can achieve by stepping into their story. The biggest gift we can give to our clients is to hold the highest potential for them. Show them that mirror and they can take 10 steps to get there. They can take a hundred thousand. That's okay. But we just hold that \[00:31:00\] space for them and we allow them to come in. We just hold that space Um, okay. I want to hear a little bit about your path to this work from engineer to to coach. Kanika: Yeah. How did that happen? Okay, so. Growing up, I was so much a people pleaser without knowing it, I suppose, as a lot of us are, you know, um, I did engineering when I didn't want to because that's what my parents wanted. That was the cool thing. I'm from India, so everybody's an engineer or a doctor, like you're supposed to do that, that's the right thing. But, and then I went out, did my MBA and I was doing really well Officially. If you looked at LinkedIn, if you looked at Facebook, uh, we were having good holidays. It was married, like everything was perfect on paper and mid thirties. My life was not perfect inside. And I remember talking to friends then and going and asking them that, Hey, you know, I'm not \[00:32:00\] fully feeling happy. And I sort of didn't even know that yet, like what to call it. There was a general expectation that when you grow up in life in age, your happiness goes down. But I couldn't fully understand that because why do you follow this? What's the point of growing up if life's not going to be happier if you're not going to really enjoy life? But I knew that, okay, I'm disconnected and I need to do something about it. I was feeling very depressed if I actually am very honest. Then I just didn't know the full words because I would wake up and cry for no reason. I was feeling so disconnected. Um, and that time I started getting into things like meditation and all that stuff, really trying to do it. But I was still doing it very much from an engineer or a project management hat on. I was thinking, okay, I'm spending five minutes. Meditating A that was hard. So hard to quieten the mind when it's so busy. When I was so used to it. But let's say if I did it and I wouldn't be able to do it for five minutes, maybe two \[00:33:00\] at tops, it was a very good take and it felt good that time. But I would come out and I would think, well, the world's still the same. Like nothing's shifted for what I just did. Um, so it was very funny, but I was trying with that really logical hat and it wasn't working out. I was pregnant that time with my daughter. My son was two years old, and then one day I woke up. I was not feeling any movement with my daughter. She was 31 weeks when I lost her. And that also means that she's a full born baby. I had to deliver her. So it was a very physical experience. My strategy so far without me knowing it, of dealing with grief, of dealing with pain was literally either to get busier or just to engage myself, distract myself and other things. That's all that I knew in terms of handling pain, but this was so much bigger that I could not run away from it. It was a physical \[00:34:00\] experience. I, I had been preparing for her arrival. I had the nursery ready and now had no baby. So it was very shocking. It was, it was a time where I could not run away from myself and I'm so glad that I could not run away. The contrast at that point in time was that my son was two years old and 2-year-old kids, they're the ones that you've gotta watch out for really, because you don't know what they will do next and how they will be dangerous. You know what draw they will climb in and they might have something heavy falling on them, or they might put their finger in the socket. So you've like really got to watch out for them. And so I'm this person who's going through her own grief shock, trying to make sense of life. And I still have to be forcefully present in my child's life because he's all the time, like he's on all the time. You know, two years old, they say it's terrible tools for a reason. So it was a very interesting contrast \[00:35:00\] because honestly, that time I wanted to check out of life. I have zero interest in life, and the contrast is so beautiful because my son is so excited about life, he's excited about crinkled papers, he's excited about water, and then he can do dangerous stuff in there and so on. But there's just a love of life. So I would observe him and I would go, how come I went from here to where I am currently right now? And of course, I wanted to live on because I did not wanna check out on him, but I, he gave me the inspiration. He became the teacher then. And I understood that if, if I want to live and I wanted to live for myself, for him, I needed to find a way to be happy and connected with life. The way he was. So he became that teacher. My daughter became the other teacher because I really wanted to connect with her. I wanted to understand how is, how did all of this happen? Like what's the biggest story of my life? Why did she come in? Why did she not come in? She \[00:36:00\] wasn't a planned baby. And then my question was, well, why did this happen if it didn't really have to materialize? So that's how I got into energy healing and tuning into the Akashic records. And I remember when I got in touch with my daughter and I asked her first, I said, I'm really sorry that I lost you. And she said that that was never part of the plan. I shouldn't be sorry. Her plan was never to come into life. Her plan, our plan, actually, my soul agreement with her was that if I was wasting my life, she would come and wake me up. Wow. So she had actually done that all those times when I was feeling not okay. She was trying to wake me up, I was just not listening to it. And then she had to get to a way that I would really listen to her. Mm-hmm. So she's been my guide ever since. Both of my kids have been. Um, and she's really helped me move forward, fundamentally change my life. Um, but I \[00:37:00\] share the story also because I want people to know that whatever your darkest moments in life are, we sometimes feel that, oh, this is so tragic. And I can tell you with hand on my heart that yes, it was a hard experience, but my life before that was so much darker, but it was that darkness that's actually brought me so much light. Now it's difference between night and day and my whole purpose of helping other heart led entrepreneurs bring more sustainable businesses, grow profitable businesses. Stems from this, because I know firsthand how much shift you make for yourself, but around others, for others, when you claim your own power back. Kris: Mm. Mm-hmm. Wow. What an incredible story. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Thank you so much. I, um, I have been asking myself a lot of questions lately. I, my son is incredible. Today is \[00:38:00\] his eighth birthday. He is a firecracker, and he, um. He, he has, he struggles with a lot of anxiety and he always has like a, such a high amount that it's hard for him to enjoy the day to day. And if you're, if you've been, anxiety can present in many different forms. But for him, he feels the need or the anxiety drives him to control his environment and everything around him, which as his mom, it's, it's a lot. It is a lot. And, um, and I've kind of, we've taken it step by step. I've learned so much. I am a much more compassionate, impatient human than I ever would've been. Um, but I had a, a reiki session last week and in the thick of it. I asked like, what is the \[00:39:00\] purpose of all this? Like, why am I mothering this soul? What is my gift here? Um, or what is the, the deeper meaning? And the answer that came was a, a deeper sense of letting go to really learn to let go because I can't fix this and I can't, you know, he is never gonna be a, the typical child that everyone expects a, an 8-year-old to behave like look like, be like, he's just not, he does not fit into any mold and it's been a hard road. Um. Much of which is just like, I don't, you know, I wanna help if my kid is struggling with anxiety, I want to help bring more healing and ease to him. But also because culturally everyone has opinions about the way a kid should be and behave. And then if they're not, then somehow \[00:40:00\] it's linked to the mother and the way that they're parenting. And, and so it can be, it can be difficult, but even me tuning in and getting in touch with that idea of like, oh, my learning here is to really let go. Um, and it's just brought a lot more lightness to the way I am moving through the world and has been such a gift. So I just wanted to share that with you. Kanika: Thank you so much and happy birthday to him. He would be a spirited child at eight, my son's nine right now as we are recording. Yeah, and thanks for being so vulnerable with the story. I can relate with that. This is why I love working with parents who are conscious or who are on that consciousness journey, and I understand that because similar and not so similar, but I've had a journey with my son as well. I think both of them, I chose them as really wise, wonderful \[00:41:00\] teachers. The same that you are doing too. There are a couple of things that I'll share here. First of all, this is, and I'm saying this to all the parents who struggle with their kids or somehow think that the kids are not right. Because society expects them some way. And I want you to just take a minute and think about a few things, right? For example, there's a society template. Mostly there's a template that you grow up, you do your education, then you grow up, find a partner, you get married, you have kids, or you have a partnership. You have kids. And somehow that's meant to be the happier thing to do all over cultures you'll find at different ages and so on. But generally, people are saying, Hey, you know, do this like this. This is the part that we are meant to follow. But I also encourage, now just take a step back and see how many of you have actually done that, or people that you know who've done that, and then who've reached that place and you're like, gosh, but I'm not happy. Like I followed the part that everybody said. And \[00:42:00\] I'm not happy. So I think first thing that we can do is just realize that somehow we have some templates in life and they have just been templates in life. It does not mean that they're the right thing. It does not mean that they're right. So when we are trying to understand our kids in going like, maybe the template is not working here. They're not per the, that child that they should be, maybe the template is flawed, maybe the template right now. And I see so many parents again and again, um, where when I look at their kids, the science hasn't yet evolved to fully understand their gift, the child's gift. It's like they have a way of labeling what things are and they only know what they know and then they don't know the rest. And so the only way sometimes for them to. I put a logical handle on that is saying, oh, the child lacks something. Because that's the only list of labels that we have. And we go, okay, now there's something wrong here with the child, \[00:43:00\] but know that if your child wasn't gifted, if your child wasn't meant to be here on Earth, there's so many bigger forces at play. Like the Earth's, you know, nature. There's so many bigger forces. If they were not meant to be here, if they were not in their divine purpose, they would not be. The very fact that they're breathing means that they're meant to be here, that they are divine souls, that there is a purpose. Now think about, um, people such as Steve Jobs would be a good example. He was dyslexic. And we can talk about so many others who thought differently, but because they thought differently, their difference was a gift to the world because they added something, they brought something. Kids, us, whatever, different things we are attracting to us, that's our way of learning as a soul. Um, soul souls, when we are born, we, we are just very curious creatures. You know, when we as souls and we wanna learn a lot about things, so there's a reason why we take on \[00:44:00\] certain challenges in life. Um, some souls decide that, oh, they want to experience disharmony. So they might actually choose knowing in the bigger picture that, okay, you know, I'll choose a disharmonious home because I wanna experience that. Sometimes they want to experience other things. Um, if, for example, a child has really special needs and when they want, they need to really be taken care of. And all these equations, they happen both ways. The child's learning something, the parent's learning something. You have a soul contract with your child. Um, and in those cases, often parents are learning to let go to shed their egoic parts. A lot of what you've mentioned, a lot of what I've had to do as well, the less I think of my own child as, oh, this is the perfect version. He should be, but I just focus on who he is. It just allows me to really get inspired actually that, oh, this is what he brings and that's your job as well, to really let them be. We often take \[00:45:00\] so much as a parent that, oh, I'm here as the provider. I'm a bad mom, perhaps that my child's not behaving in a certain way, and that's not our job. Our children are just born through us. Our role is to provide for them. Our role is to take care of them. Our role is to guide them. Ultimately, they're their own individual beings. My job in terms of helping my child grow is healing myself, because wherever I'm seeing the limits with him, that's healing me. I'll give you another story. Um, so some time ago, my son was little and I was just feeling the anger, the frustration from him, and I was like, why doesn't he understand? How much am I doing for him? And why do I seem to be on the receiving end? Um, and I remember this funny story. Um, well, it's, it's funny now. It was really painful at the moment. Um. And this is me, like trying to \[00:46:00\] look after him just as any other parent. You know, we have our struggles. We, we try and put our best foot forward for the child. And he said something like, oh, I don't think you love me anymore, because I'd stopped him from something. And it hurt. It hurt. Um, somehow went to bed. And then after that I was like, well, I need to look at that. Why am I hearing this? Why am I hearing that I'm not a good mom for him or that I don't love him? And when I tuned in, you know, I had stories that I was not a good mom. Uh, like I'd lost my daughter. I was not a good mom. I like when my son was born, my earlier story there went to, um, my milk didn't come out on time. And so my son was crying. He was hungry and my milk wasn't coming out. And I felt, oh gosh, internally, without even having a dialogue, but I felt I was a bad mom. But looking inside then, then I could see, okay, I've got these stories going on, so now I can heal them. When I heal them. And I picked him from school the next day, and he's usually not a \[00:47:00\] hugger, but that day he came, he hugged me, like quickly, gave me a hug and he said, oh, can I go to the playground and play for a little bit? And then off he went. But it was a shift. That shift happened energetically when I cleared my bad mom stories. So the invitation here would be for all the parents where you holding that inside, you clear that, heal that for you. Bring that love for yourself, let that ripple out. Kris: Mm gosh. That's so powerful. Wow. Kanika, thank you so much for all the wisdom that you brought to the show today. Where can my audience find you? Kanika: I can be found at Kanika Energy Coach on LinkedIn or on Instagram, reach out to me. Um, I'd love to help. And if you are a business owner, you are wanting to just see what's going on with your sales and why you're not getting leads or what is the energetic stuff that's going below your things. Um, then I have a free energetic sales audit for you. Book that with me at Art of life \[00:48:00\] center.com/sales. I'll see you there. Kanika: Thank you, Kris. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you. Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/from-click-to-client-website-shame-fix ### Title: Why Your Ashamed of Your Website (And How to Fix It) with Gabriel Flores ### Page ID: 8837467 ### Content: Why Your Ashamed of Your Website (And How to Fix It) with Gabriel Flores Most service providers I talk to have a secret. They're embarrassed by their own website. They avoid sending people to it. They pretend it doesn't exist. They know it's not working, but they have no idea how to fix it. Here's what I've learned after 23 years of helping business owners with their websites: the problem isn't your writing skills. It's that you're making yourself the hero of the story instead of your client. I sat down with Gabe Flores on the Shades of Entrepreneurship podcast to talk about this exact problem and share the framework from my new book, From Click to Client. ? The #1 mistake that makes potential clients click away ? How to turn your website into a 24/7 sales machine ? Simple story-driven design principles anyone can use (no design skills required) Your website should be your top salesperson, not your best-kept secret. Why You're Ashamed of Your Website (And How to Fix It) with Gabriel Flores Ep. 64 | Why You're Ashamed of Your Website (And How to Fix It) \[00:00:00\] I had the best conversation with Gabe Flores on the shades of entrepreneurship podcast, and it was so good. I wanted to share it with you here today. Here we go. Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Gabe: Hello everyone and welcome to the Shades of Entrepreneurship. This is your host, Mr. Gabriel Flores. Today we have a returning guest, which I'm really excited about because we're gonna talk about why this individual's currently touring. Before we get into all that information, Chris, welcome back. Go ahead. Give us a little introduction, a reintroduction for those individuals who may have missed the episode. Shame on you. Please go check out the shades of be.com and subscribe. But please Chris, introduce yourself. Kris: Yeah, uh, my name is Chris Jones. \[00:01:00\] I live here in Portland. I have a boat teak storytelling firm, and I'm a big believer in less is more marketing as. As self-employed people, we, we got, we do our own work. Like we chose to be self-employed, to have freedom and to do the work that we love to do. What we don't realize often. Prior to making that decision is that self-employment requires you to become a part-time marketer and nobody really wants to do that part. It kind of feels like this, like never ending to-do list, uh, the hamster wheel of like feeding that insatiable marketing monster. So. What I love to do is use the power of story and really help business owners craft a signature story that sells for them, so they've got one \[00:02:00\] story. They use that same story in every area of their marketing, most importantly, on their website. Everything points back to the website and you can just rest easy knowing that your website is really your top sales person and you're freed up to really do the work you love and to spend time doing what matters most, Gabe: you know? And I think, I feel like this conversation's also a perfect time and because. Storytelling as it comes out, you know, from the marketing perspective is so essential right now for brands, uh, because there is so much static right in the market right now and, and making sure that your audience resonates with you and the message that you're creating, right? What is the true north of that brand and that value proposition, right? They want to feel like cared for and about because. Interest rates are high, inflation's high. And so spending even a little bit of money on something, uh, you know, individuals are starting to think twice in three times before they pull out that wallet. So creating, you know, that storytelling is, is so important. Now \[00:03:00\] let's tell us, tell us a little bit about why you are touring. Kris: I am currently on a book tour. I've been working for the past year, uh, on a book called from Click to client, how to easily create a story-driven website that turns visitors into clients. When I get on the phone, when I talk to a lot of client-based business owners and when I get on the phone with them, their websites are a mess. Uh, not only that, they're ashamed of it. They're ashamed to send people to it. They often pretend it doesn't even exist. And I've watched this happen time and time again, and they know that story is important, but they don't quite know how to use the fundamentals of story on their website to make their website really more effective at helping them grow their business. The other thing I love \[00:04:00\] getting into is really story-driven design. And for non-designers, right? You do not have to be a, a great designer to implement, implement really powerful story-driven design principles onto your website. Um, what I, my mission is really to. Allow people to understand what works and what doesn't work so they can look at their website and get rid of the things that aren't working, tune up the things that are working, and really make their website their most effective marketing tool. Gabe: Yeah. And folks, if you, again, if you have not listened to the episode, go check it out on the shades of e.com. Uh, really great episode because during that episode, Chris kind of gave me some pointers about my own website, you know, and, and Chris you mentioned, uh, you've been kind of writing this book for about a year, kind of putting together, right? Gabe: One. What inspired you to write from click to the client? I believe it was \[00:05:00\] called. Kris: Good question. Um, you know. I've heard people talk about this in different ways, but you can't write a book unless you're pregnant with a book. And I found myself pregnant with a book. And, and so it's, it was less about, like, it was, it was not so much a strategic decision, but more like I found myself pregnant with this book and I gave birth to it because it was ready. Um, I think. The other piece of this is. I've been doing this work 23 years, and I really empathize with the struggle that business owners have around marketing, around storytelling, around really just even answering that question, what do you do in a compelling and clear way that gets people excited to work with you? And so I've, \[00:06:00\] I've worked with so many, I mean, at this point, thousands of business owners. Um. And I have intimate insights into some of the common struggles that all of these people go through and struggle with. And so it, it feels like, um, the book was really written in an effort to reach more people. Um, my time is limited to work with me is right around a $5,000 engagement, which. For many business owners is a no brainer. They often will make that money back in two weeks or 30 days. That being said, not everybody has the budget. Um, it depends. It also depends on like what phase of entrepreneurship you're in. You early in the game, are you late in the game? Um, what's, what's happening? And so \[00:07:00\] what I, what I really, um, the problem that I really wanna solve is. I don't want business owners to hate their website and not know how to make it better, and so there's nothing worse than being left trying to DIY your own website. As a business owner and not quite knowing what to do and not having direction, um, of course the benefit of that is that it's free. Um, but what is it really costing you in lost sales and lost opportunities, um, and clients that pass you by because you're not showing up online as the expert that you truly are. Um. The other side of that coin is, okay, you have a budget and you want, you wanna work with someone like me and I can help you and literally do it with you and do it for you. Um, the book is really kind of a marriage of those \[00:08:00\] two things. You know, for under $20 you can get the book and you can have me by your side walking you through the process step by step. So you don't have to do it alone, but you can do it on a budget. Gabe: I love it. And again, folks, this will be available, uh, how have the link on the shades of e.com. So make sure you subscribe, go visit the shades of e.com. Um, you know, and, and Chris, you know, it's, it's, it's funny. I love that you're kind of talking about like the website development. 'cause I believe I'm kind of in that bucket, right? Where. The shades of entrepreneurship. When I started it, it was kind of like, lemme get proof of concept. So I went with Wix. Now folks under just stay on website building. You'll understand Wix is not for scaling. It's just kind of, it's kinda like Squarespace. Again, nothing, I'm not saying anything bad about them, but they just have templates that are kind of created to really make website design easy. But it kind of also just gives you a general baseline of what you need. But if you're really, truly trying to scale you, you kind of need to bring in a designer. You kind of need to go to, \[00:09:00\] uh, WordPress where you can really kind of get a little bit more, or maybe some other type of, uh, web, web, uh, page design. It's a little bit more, uh, I would say, uh. More advanced than, than Wix capabilities and some of the capabilities that some of these other templated, uh, website, uh, locations have. Now, with that said, I would be very interested to hear, uh, because again, I'm, I'm actually in this transition right now where I am actually now, you know, taking on RFPs and, Hey, how, what can you do for the design? 'cause I'm starting to think, okay, I need to start transitioning from the, the podcasts, right? To your point. Becoming the expert that people see me as, and how do I, mm-hmm. How do I promote that? How to become number one on Google? Mm-hmm. So can you share with me some of your most shocking website transformation stories? Kris: Well, you bring up such a good point, and I talk about this in the book. I am actually a big fan of cloud-based builders like Wix, like Squarespace, as long as it's \[00:10:00\] aligned and can support your bigger business. Business vision, where do you wanna be in five years? Does that builder have the capacity to do that? Are you looking for a community? Are you wanting to build multiple courses If you want, if your vision is, you know, heading in that direction, you might wanna go with either WordPress. I'm a big fan of Kajabi. Um, it's kind of an all-in-one platform. It is more money monthly, but when you, you have all that capability under one roof, and that can really ultimately save you money. Um, what I like to say is nobody asked Van Gogh which brand of Canvas he painted on, right? So, as long, as, long as. You like the tool? I think the most important part of making a decision about the builder that you use is. \[00:11:00\] Does it work with your brain? Like, can you easily pop in there and make updates and changes to it? Um, that's the most important one because we all know what it's like to have a website and to avoid going in there and making changes to it because it's a headache or unintuitive, uh, it's an unintuitive interface, so. My top priority is that the builder you choose is intuitive to you, that it can support your bigger, longer term business vision. Um, but ultimately the principles that I talk about, both storytelling principles and story-driven design principles can be implemented on any builder. Wix, Squarespace, Kajabi, WordPress, like really they're applicable to, to all the builders. Gabe: Yeah. And I, I, again, folks, I have nothing bad to say about Wix. I, to, to, uh, Chris's point \[00:12:00\] here. Um, I, I used Wix and it, it's gotten me to this point where now I'm able to scale and I feel like it's not time to go to the next level, you know, as, as Chris kind of pointed out. Mm-hmm. 'cause again. Rick's really helped me create a community. It create my, you know, subscription model. It helped me kind of understand it really kind of was a crash course and starting to learn how to do SEOs, what learning about keyword phrases and all these d different things, right? So I got a nice baseline, which is really nice. 'cause now when I actually go out and hire somebody and, and I'm taking on these RFPs. Now I know what questions to ask, right? Yeah. And I kind of know like, okay, well what, how is this gonna inter, okay, what other softwares, how are these interchange? Like, how are they all, how's they gonna interface with each other? Uh, this is what I currently have. Does it make sense to currently, you know, continue this model versus that model? So it's, mm-hmm. It's really fun to kind of go through that process and, and start to understand it, you know. But what would you say, you know, 'cause again, we're humans, we make mistakes. Mm-hmm. What's the biggest \[00:13:00\] website mistake you see service providers making? Kris: Ooh. I love that question. Before I dive into that, I wanna just put a bow on a point that you made that I think was really important around Wix and Squarespace and all the other, like pretty simple, uh, DIY builders. Um, those builders. What, what often happens, and I guess this, I would consider this. A mistake, um, that people make, but I completely understand why it happens. So when you become self-employed often you're like, okay, well now I need a website. Like I've gotta have a home on the internet where people can find me. Okay, Wix, Squarespace, whatever. It doesn't matter. You get on there, you pick one of their templates, and you're thinking, this is a website company. So their templates must be. Good. So you follow their lead and you kind of fill, they have a \[00:14:00\] paragraph here, a paragraph here. You fill in a little bit about yourself here. You fill in a little bit about maybe your dog or that you like to travel here and like you kind of follow their lead. Well. Builders like that. I love that they're intuitive to manage. Um, but they're in the business of brochure websites. And as a business owner, you do not want or need a brochure website. A a brochure website doesn't convert new clients. It kind of sits there. It might look pretty, it might say some nice words about who you are, but really what you need. No matter what builder you're on is a strategic website that's effective at selling for you that really can sell for you when you're not there. That 24 7, that's really what we need and nobody should settle for any less. You just shouldn't. \[00:15:00\] Um, it, it really is, could really be a make or break in your business. Um. Okay. Part two of that biggest mistake I see online is business owners, entrepreneurs, self-employed people making themselves the hero of their own story. And this goes hand in hand with the, the. Mistake that I just shared, you're following the lead with their template. They're like, hi, I am Nancy. I love to hike and here's how I found yoga, and now I'm a yoga instructor, whatever it is. But I, I really understand why this happens. Um, we feel forced. To put a website up quickly, we're like, it's my website. Of course I need to talk about myself. But what happens? What happens when we make our story all about \[00:16:00\] us is we become the hero of our own story and. Very quickly, I'll give you the 22nd overview of, uh, of the formula. For every story ever, ever told, a hero has a problem they don't know how to solve. They meet a guide who has a solution, who can solve their problem and guide them to success. It is that simple. That is like the, the most simple version of a story. Now, the hero is actually your client. You are the guide. They are Daniel's son and you are Mr. Miyagi. Um, so we never wanna be the hero of our own story because the hero's actually the weakest character in the story. And when potential clients come to your website. We wanna invite them into a story. And the way we invite them into your story is by really making them the central figure of the story. Um, and not that you're \[00:17:00\] not in there, you play a very important role, but it's a little bit secondary to the actual hero. And when a potential client comes to your website. And they feel seen. They feel heard. They can envision themselves in your narrative. They feel connected with you. They begin to trust you, and most importantly, you become the obvious choice for them to wanna work with. Gabe: I love that. I love the, like the, again, folks look at movies, the hero you don't know, like Jar. Jar Binks was a hero in Star Wars, but he was a huge liability. Uh, look at the, the Green Power Ranger back in the day. He was a huge liability. He was also a hero. I would rather be Gandalf, right? Because he's the guide. Yes, Frodo Baggins. So I'm just saying folks, I'm just saying I like Chris's point and I absolutely love that analogy because I just was able to throw out a bunch of sci-fi movies in the process for no, no reason to other, just to show off my nerdiness folks, I \[00:18:00\] swear. But no, Chris, this is really fascinating because it is, it is about storytelling, right? And I'm starting to see my own mistakes again. I love having these conversations with folks I see. Folksy. I keep trying to tell you I'm selfish. I really have these conversations just so I can continue to learn more and get better every day. I swear now. So when you start thinking about storytelling and you start thinking about, okay, how do I, how do I implement? Like you mentioned, um, putting it kind of within your website, making sure. The story resonates with people. So your website's working 24 7. How quickly can someone implement, you know, your specific story driven? 'cause you remember you mentioned your book. Yes. That again, folks, check out the sage of e.com. Go ahead and subscribe. It will be on there. How quickly can someone implement your story driven website method Kris: within a day? I mean, it can happen so quickly. The process is essentially four steps. The first step is what I call mining for gold. Your story is not invented or \[00:19:00\] created. It is mind it. It already exists within you. I just know exactly what questions to ask in order to pull it out of you. So that first step is called mining for gold, and that's where I ask you really targeted questions that. Pull your story out of you. And then we take those like raw nuggets of gold and we move into step two with that. And we polish that gold. We refine your story. We figure out where each little bit of gold has a place. And when we intentionally place the gold of our story, it unfolds into to this beautiful narrative that that can be really effective in helping us grow. Then what you do next is really take that story and apply it to your website. So I show you how to take those words and put it into your website builder, \[00:20:00\] whatever your website builder is, and then marry it. With story driven design, and again, you do not have to be a good designer to implement four simple PR principles, design principles that I have included in the book. They're very simple, but they will make your site look like it was di designed by a professional designer, and you will never look at a website the same way again. And then step four is just all about reaping. The benefits of what you've just crafted, and that's called sign more clients. So just start attracting those ideal clients and converting them into to paying clients and, and also repelling wrong fit clients. Like we all know what it's like to waste our precious time on the phone with people who. Aren't the right fit for our, what our special sauce is. So, um, that's also \[00:21:00\] really important part of a strategic website like this is to really, really attract the right people and repel the wrong ones. Gabe: You know, I gotta tell you, that's one of the more frustrating things I think for any, anybody in the sales kind of relationship management world, any, anytime you try to create a value proposition relationship with anybody and you start building a rapport only to realize that. The relationship. There's, there's no value add, uh, for either side sometimes, uh, but more importantly for yourself because all the time and energy and sometimes the money that has gone into building that and fostering that relationship all for night is, is, is tough. Uh, and, and one of the things you mentioned, you know, you don't, you wanna repel. The, the wrong clients. Right? You don't wanna necessarily absorb those ones. And one thing you also mentioned was, you know, making sure that we're not the hero in our own website, in our own story. What are, you know, as folks that are listening, they're, I'm, I'm listening. I'm like, shoot, I gotta go update my website \[00:22:00\] after this conversation. And, but what, what do most professional websites actually do to repel dream clients? How do they, how do they get some of those folks? Gabe: I mean, as in how do they actually, outside of just the, um, sorry. Outside of just the, uh, the being their own hero, what are some other things that they do to repel some of their dream clients? Kris: Ah, that's such a good question. Um, they talk about themselves too much. Um, they. We'll often get so excited about the way they solve their problem that they'll like wanna get right into that right off the bat. And I liken that to like, if you met somebody for a first 15 minute coffee date, would you sit down and say. Oh my gosh, I, I, the best plumber you've got, you've gotta have this plumber plumber's information. He, he did the best job with my plumbing. And \[00:23:00\] they, and they're like, but that's not even a problem that I have. I, you know, I don't need a plumber. Right. And so we really wanna, when you imagine meeting somebody for coffee, you really wanna sit down and take the time to connect with them. Really understand what's going on in their world. You can share a little bit about what's going on in your world and we really show them that they matter by taking the time to connect with them. So one thing I see a lot is, um, just an eagerness to talk about how we solve the problem before we've really taken the time to show them that they are the central figure. Help them really understand. Help them really know that we understand the nuances of their struggle and that their success is our top priority, um, before we ever get into anything about what we do, how we solve their \[00:24:00\] problem. So we wanna take the time to do that first. Um, the, the other thing that people do. I mean, people are really, when they come to your website, they're looking to be told what to do. They're tired of trying to figure it out themselves. If they could have figured it out themselves, they would've by now, but they can't. So that's why they're looking for somebody like you. And so. One of the most important things that you can do is be very clear and strategic with your call to action and not overwhelm them with too many options or buttons that are different in each section. You wanna really. Repeat over and over, what is the next step that you want them to take in order to engage with you? So they're clear. When they're clear on what they need to do next, they want to be told what to do. It's a relief if you, if you are the guide, telling them what that next step should \[00:25:00\] be. And I think. Um, people that I work with often think, oh, shouldn't I change it up from section to section? And the reality is no. We wanna stay consistent with that call to action so they're not confused. And at the moment that they're ready to take that next step, that call to action is they're ready for them. Gabe: Yeah, I, I, I must admit that I've tried to design my website in a way that like it flows for people. Um mm-hmm. Right? So it's like kind of, you're kind of going through it as in a way like, okay, if you're not going to listen to this episode now, or subscribe, here's, you know, try to get 'em to continue to the subscribe. Right. I, I. Again, folks, that's why I constantly tell you to go visit the shades of e.com and go ahead and subscribe. Right? Right. But that's kind of my call to action. But to your point, one thing I'm also realizing, again, I don't have my website up, but I can see it in my head, is that one, I'm the hero of the story, so I kinda need to edit that. Two, there's a lot of different call to \[00:26:00\] actions. Subscribe to my YouTube, subscribe to my podcast, subscribe to newsletter, do this, do that blog, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, I'm probably confusing the heck outta people. Kris: What, um, what would be the most beneficial for them to subscribe to and what would be the most beneficial for you as a business owner for them to sub subscribe to? Like what's gonna help them get to know you the most? Gabe: Yeah. I'd probably, yeah, the newsletter. I guess I would have to say the newsletter now with. One question I was gonna have, I feel like there's probably some words I should use versus I shouldn't use. What are some of those words I should be putting on the website or phrases that I either should start using to, uh, track, like you mentioned, to kind of make them feel like, one, I'm not the hero. And then two, what are some phrases I should stop using? Kris: Hmm. Well, I wanna, I wanna get back to your call to action. Um, people are pretty, uh, protective of their emails and \[00:27:00\] they're pretty hesitant to hand it over. And so rather than subscribe to my newsletter, I'd love your call to action to be, um, more benefit focused. So, um, you know. What kind of breakthrough are they gonna have by, by getting your newsletter over and over, or what's a benefit that they're gonna get? So, you know, I might, I, I would wanna work with you to kind of refine how you phrase that. 'cause typically, um. People are hesitant to sign up for a newsletter unless they know that it's gonna benefit them in some way. And so there's simple language you could add to that to really make that clear. And I think it would really increase. Your subscription, your signups, Gabe: it makes sense. 'cause I'm also one of those individuals, right? That, uh, you know, well won't \[00:28:00\] subscribe unless I see the benefit. Now, like you're, you're actually mentioning right there, there are also certain words that you can use. What are, what are some things, some words, one, we should possibly start using that a little bit more consumer friendly versus words you should just avoid. Kris: I'm a big fan of actionable words, so. Um, I, I take part of the taking time to connect at the beginning of the website is really helping them understand or feel like you, uh, you know, the nuances of their struggle. And so I often will start the website out with something like, you know, what are you struggling with? And I'll get into three or five bullets of, of really nuanced language. Like, are you up at night worried that your money is gonna run out before you retire? Um, or whatever their problem is. And all you have to do is refer to your sales calls. What are people complaining about over and over and \[00:29:00\] over again? Um. So that's number one. But back to the actionable words, um, part two of that is really. If your job as the guide is to help them envision a brighter future for themselves, often we, the heroes get so stuck in their own problem, they've forgotten like what is possible for them once they solve that problem. And so. Your job as, as the guide, is to really point to that mountain peak and go look at what's possible for you. One, once this problem is solved, after we've worked together and this problem is solved, what does your life look like then? Not during our work together, but after our work together, and so. I like to put these, like, I typically have about three that I, what are the three things they want more than anything? Um, and I like to start those with an actionable word, \[00:30:00\] and I get into this in detail in my book as well. Um, but it might be like, uh, achieve financial freedom. So achieve is the word, or, um, um, feel more confident. Notice they're, they're actionable words that they're actually gonna experience. Um, I, I like to use language like that. It, it really connects with people and resonates with people. Gabe: I like it. You know, it makes sense. You know, uh, that's one thing I've been trying to do, uh, is change up my kind of call to actions to be a little bit more like, um. Support the show, right? And it'd be, you know, to, to purchase a, a sweater or things like that, which you can do by visiting the shades of e.com again, you know, trying to, trying to change it up in that way. And, you know, really, again, to, uh, I'm, Chris, I'm totally going to take your advice as well and kind of start to dig into that and start looking at the, the different phrasing and what is the benefit of the newsletter. But more importantly, one thing you mentioned that I'm really \[00:31:00\] starting to dig on is what is the benefit to the business? Like, okay, you want me to sign up for the newsletter? Well. For what, what, what, what is the business getting in return if that is in fact the call to action that is spread out through the entire webpage, right? The, the entire website. So folks, that's another thing to take in consideration as well, is. Make sure that the call to action on your webpage is actually a value of your, for yourself as well. Not just a value proposition for your consumers, but what are you getting in return, right? Um, is it, is the websites, is the emails like Chris mentioned, is it the email addresses that you're after? 'cause again, consumers are very private with their, with their emails. Uh, is it their geographic location? Is it their preferences? What is it that you're trying to get in, in return? So I, I really like that, uh, as well. 'cause that's another learning thing again, folks. I'm selfish. I love these conversations 'cause I learned so much from 'em. Now, Chris, uh, you know, for folks that are interested in finding from click to, uh, client Gabe: Or it's out now, where can they find it? Where can they find more information about you? \[00:32:00\] Kris: Yes, you can go to my website, red door designs.com/book and you can find and buy the book there. Gabe: I love it. And again, folks, this will also be available on the Shades of Entrepreneurship website. Please go visit the shades of e.com, subscribe to the newsletter. Uh, although maybe we might, maybe I'll be asking something else after this. I don't know. Maybe we'll ask you to subscribe to something. Who knows. Folks, the call to action may change. 'cause again, Chris has given me such great insight. Now, Chris, before we go, is there any last words you have to say for the folks that are listening at home? Kris: Um, if you're on a budget and you're really looking to. Uh, for some quick and efficient guidance on how to tell a compel a compelling story. Also, on my website is a free guide and a five minute tutorial with a worksheet that you can fill out and really begin to apply storytelling principles in your own messaging on your own website.\[00:33:00\] So it's a great way to start shifting that lens from not being the hero and stepping into that guide role, which is. The most important thing that you can do. Gabe: I love it and I love that. Again, uh, I'm, I'm getting so many ideas. 'cause again, you're. I love the call to action, but then you also have something of value for the clients. 'cause like you mentioned, people are gonna come to you and they're like, Hey, help me, just help me. I just need the, I just need the guide rails. Right, right. I can plug in the, the, the blank word because it's my story. Right? Mm-hmm. But I just need the guide rails to get me there, and, and, and Chris is really just providing you the guide rails. So again, folks, this information, I'll try to get that link and I'll make sure I have it on the website as well. So, we'll, Chris will have a dedicated page. The, this, uh, this conversation will also be on the website and as well as on YouTube. And for those Patreon members, this episode will actually be released. A week early. So again, for $5 a month, exclusive rights to this vital, uh, for, uh, this will be a week early, you'll also get the transcription, you'll get some, uh, \[00:34:00\] back, uh, stage content as well. So again, that's kind of the, maybe that's where I'll start call to action and start focusing on the Patreon area. Yes. Because that's, that's the true value. So again, Chris, thank you so much for your time. I, I, I truly love our conversation and thank you for coming back. It actually, oh. For me, it's actually really a blessing 'cause it's like a, you know, kind of a proof of concept that people actually do like coming on this show and I'm, maybe I'm not just selfish, maybe I actually, they like it as well. So maybe, maybe we're all alerting something. So again, Chris, thank you so much. Red Door designs.com folks, go check it out. Make sure you check out the shades of e.com. We'll have this information. You can also follow us at the shades of e.com on all the social sites. Thank you and have a great night. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/form ### Title: Form ### Page ID: 8867351 ### Content: *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/if-youre-not-seen-youre-not-hired-authority-shortcut-christine-blosdale ### Title: If You’re Not Seen, You’re Not Hired: The Authority Shortcut with Christine Blosdale ### Page ID: 8895873 ### Content: # If You’re Not Seen, You’re Not Hired: The Authority Shortcut with Christine Blosdale If You’re Not Seen, You’re Not Hired: The Authority Shortcut with Christine Blosdale You could be the most talented coach, consultant, or advisor in your space... but if people can't find you online, they're hiring someone else. That stings a little, right? I know. But stick with me. I just dropped a new episode with **Christine Blosdale**, the Expert Authority Coach, and she said something that hit me right in the gut: "If you're not seen and you're not heard, you're not hired." ? Why so many brilliant experts stay invisible (even when they don't mean to) ? The free strategy that builds your authority faster than any credential ? A website mistake one of Christine's clients made for an entire year without realizing it (this one gave me chills) If you've been pouring your heart into your work but still feel like a best-kept secret... this episode is going to hit home. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Kris:** I am so excited to share with you my guest today. Her name is Christine Blosdale and she is known as the Expert Authority Coach. So if you have ever felt invisible, even though you're really good at what you do, this conversation is for you. **Christine:** Uh, thank you Chris. I've been looking forward to this conversation for quite some time. Thank you. **Kris:** Yeah, really happy to have you. We, I think we're in a lot of alignment with the work that we do and I wanna, I wanna dig into it. So tell me a little bit about you and your backstory and how you got here. **Christine:** Yeah. So, um, I was really lucky many moons ago, maybe bef maybe before your time, but back in the \[00:01:00\] day there was no YouTube, there was no TikTok, there was no Facebook, it was America Online. And it, it, that's all there was. And I was very fortunate to get, uh, an amazing opportunity to write for them. 'cause they were only, uh, we didn't have videos and stuff like that. We were just, uh, writing columns. And I got to write the entertainment column, uh, under, I wrote it under a a pseudonym, a, a a a, a cartoon character, not Christine Blazedale, but this VPI Campy head of Hopper anatomically incorrect drawn cartoon called, uh, beatbox Betty. And so, during that time. I actually got to really hone in my skills on how to communicate with a very large demographic. My editor said, Christine, this is a OL and uh, we're, your audience is anywhere from eight years old to 80. And I was like, oh, okay. So this is way before the Shrek movies. Uh, but I wrote in a style that young people would enjoy it and they thought it was cute with the character, and then also adults got it. And they were like, oh, okay. She's being a little saucy right now. But I was \[00:02:00\] involved in like all the premieres and the celebrity interviews and movie reviews, and I got to be very creative, but I also got to really hone in on what people want and we're seeking out. So I did that for a while, and then nine 11 happened. And I don't know about you, but I mean, I remember exactly where I was and I had all these questions and I really felt that what I was doing for my career was not that important in the grand scheme of things. You know what I'm saying? Like, who cares who Angelina Jolie is dating? You know, when, when these kind of things happen, you're like, what? Yeah. So I was seeking and that's, you know, what happens is when your, your soul is seeking for something, opportunities will appear and you just have to take that and know that, pull that thing that rings your bell. And I was channel surfing as you do stuck in traffic in Los Angeles. 'cause there's always traffic. And um, and I heard a radio station that was really unique and it wasn't like the corporate media. It wasn't. Lots of fear. And it was, but it was act asking questions and it was \[00:03:00\] talking about, our foreign policies, uh, that we've had over the years in the Middle East. And I was like, wow, this is so refreshing. And these are people actually expressing themselves and, and analyzing. And so I just went to the station and I said, I just wanna say thank you to everybody. I wanna walk around and say thank you. And they let me, there's no security. They were like, oh, come on in. And so I went into that radio station and from a Grateful heart, I just said Thank you to people. And that opportunity happened where they said, you know, so what do you do? And I'm like, oh, I write, I'm a cartoon character. And I, I go to Hollywood Premieres and it's just, it felt so shallow. But they said, uh, you, you know what you should think of, of volunteering. And I, I said, you can do that. Yeah. So I started volunteering just because I thought it would be a great experience for me. Mm-hmm. And that turned into a job, an opportunity to be a writer, a producer. And then that golden moment where they said it's so Hollywood. It's so, it's such a Hollywood story of the host. Can't, you know, they broke their leg or they, they're sick, or they got the flu \[00:04:00\] and you have to go in the air. And I was terrified. And I had an imposter syndrome moment where I was like, what if I mess up? What are people gonna think? This is a very large audience. Los Angeles drive time, five o'clock at night, **Christine:** And I was terrified, but the program director said, you have to do it. And so I reluctantly went into this dark little studio. I put on the headphones, pulled the mic to my mouth, and the red on air light went on and magic happened. It was as if I knew what the audience was thinking. I could hear them ask questions. So I addressed those questions. It was magic. And I just started talking and all that imposter syndrome stuff just went away. And I said, oh my God, this is where I'm supposed to be. And so I was there at that radio station for 20 years. **Christine:** And I got to meet some amazing people. Do interviews like you do as a podcast host Chris, and, and meeting all these amazing people. And I raised \[00:05:00\] a lot of money 'cause it was a, a nonprofit radio station. So I had a, we had a fun drive. It was that PBS model. Right. You know? Yep. **Christine:** Selling stuff kind of. But I was very successful in that. But what I found was that when I would interview someone, an author, or, um, a thought leader. I had all these ideas for them, for their business. I would go to their website and I would say, you know what? After the interview, of course I would say, have you ever thought of doing this or that, or, you know, writing that book or, you know, I, I would come up with these ideas because I have this creative mind where I can look at somebody like I. I stalked you a little bit. I went to your website and I'm like, she's doing everything right here. There's nothing, you know, there's nothing in that. And it's the same thing. If I go to a restaurant, I'll, I'll pick out the things that are, they're doing right, but also the things that they can improve on. If I go to a spa, I make sure that I, if somebody treats me really well, I go to the manager and I say, this person deserves a raise. They're amazing. But I also can spot the things that are not working right. The communication is not, the messaging is not very good, or the branding is really \[00:06:00\] bad. And so I found that when I was doing that, these wonderful guests that I would be talking to on the, in the radio program, they would. Say, Hey, can I hire you to, to work on my website? Can I hire you to help me with my publicity and my marketing? And I say, absolutely. And that's also where that kind of that bell went off in my head and I said, this is something I can really do and I love doing. So I slowly, I was still working at the radio station and then still having some new clients here and there. And I started my, my coaching business. And basically I am that expert authority coach. I like to say, I like to take people's gems and put them in their crowns so that they can message, get their message out to the world and, um, and communicate. And you said something, I, I think it was on a podcast. I thought it was so brilliant. You say that as entrepreneurs and coaches and consultants. We tend to be in that, like that bottle right? And the label. We can't see what's on the label on the outside. 'cause we're in it, we're living it, we're stressed out. We're trying to book clients and \[00:07:00\] make money, but we don't see what's someone from the outside can see. Like yourself. You have that same eye, right? Where you can look at something and you can go, oh, that's cringe worthy. That's not, that's not working. Or **Christine:** maybe their message isn't getting communicated. So that's a very long answer to your first question, but, uh, that's how I got started. And, and wow. And here I am. **Kris:** What an incredible story. I love it. Thank you for getting in into all the detail. And I love the Shrek reference around being able to craft a message that really resonates with. Such a wide audience, a big audience like that, that is, uh, a hard to do. And really you following those, like that golden thread of your own story and following those nudges and those opportunities and, and look at at where it got you. That's incredible. So I would love to hear about somebody you met, you interviewed at the radio station that ended up hiring you to be their coach, and what happened for them? Like what was their current situation, their website, and \[00:08:00\] how did, what kind of transformation happened for them? **Christine:** Because I was on the air raising funds and, and they had fund drive like every other week, I felt like, uh, I would be presenting things and there's the, the golden, you know, the ratio of three, the, the magic of three. And I would focus my fundraising shows on health, wealth, or love. And those three things. If you, if, if anybody's listening and you're like, again, I I really want to start my own business. If you can focus on any of those three things, health, wealth, or love, and wealth does not mean how much money you have in the bank. Wealth could be having enough time to spend with your loved ones, right? Mm-hmm. And love is not just a romantic love. It's love for your community. It's love for yourself, right? So I focused on those type of shows for the fun drive to help raise funds. And, um, a lovely lady was listening a longtime listener to the station. She heard me, she, uh, actually emailed me and said, I would love to be a guest on your show. Um, but I first wanna meet. I would love to meet you. And I'm a colon hydrotherapist in Santa Barbara. And, uh, and I \[00:09:00\] actually lived in Ventura, so it's not very far. Anyway and so I said, well, this is interesting. And she wants to give me, she wants to gimme a colon hydrotherapy session. Okay. This, oh, that's a big one. Alright so this is, I said, okay, let, let's introduce each other. You know, let's get, let's get to know each other. And I went to, and now this woman she had a small clinic in Santa Barbara. It's very time consuming occupation. Uh, you're not just with somebody for half an hour, you're with them for several hours. And you have to be an angel, I, I believe to have that kind of of a business. And her heart was so huge and she wanted to help people who were in discomfort, with gut health issues. And so I met her and I just fell in love with her. And her name is Julia Loggins. She's Kenny Loggins. Ex-wife. Yep. Former wife. Who by the way, Kenny and Julia did it right when they separated. They are still good friends. They kept it together for their kids as far as not being mean or vicious. Uh, they celebrate holidays together and they did it right. So, uh, so when I went to see her. I just, I was \[00:10:00\] amazed at how much time she was spending, but her knowledge base, this woman had been doing this studying gut health and saved her own life for like 40 years. **Christine:** Extraordinary. And I said you're hiding in this little tiny clinic. Only people that can get to you can experience your wisdom and get your advice. Mm-hmm. And, uh, she had a few products there that she was saying, you know, you could take this is great protein. This is a thing to help with your gut health. And I was like, I saw the gold mine. I I, I saw not only a gold mine, but how many people she could help globally. **Christine:** And I said, we gotta take you, yes, I had her on the show and we, we talked about stuff, but not after, not until after we created her brand and her website. And so we made sure that, the, the books that she wrote were all reinforcing her expert authority as a gut health coach and a gut health expert. And then also I got to help her create some products because I said, you're, you need to, you know, you can white label some of these things. You can be the brand. And I remember the very first thing, she goes, well, I was, I was \[00:11:00\] thinking about, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. And she showed me an image. She goes, I'm thinking about calling the, the products, you know this. And I was like, no, it's not just, the happy gut. Colon Cleanser or the Happy Gut protein powder. I said, it's Julia Loggins Happy Gut Cleanse. It's Julia Loggins protein powder. And she was like, oh, you sure again? Imposter syndrome. Yeah. Oh, I don't know if I should, I said, you paid dearly for your name. Did you not like with all the stress of being married to a famous person? She said, oh, yeah. And I said, you radiate health and wellness. This woman the, the photo that she's, she had a photo that she had for her book where she's in front of a juicer and she's got fruits and vegetables and, and she just radiates this beautiful health aura. And I said, your picture needs to be on these products as well. And she went with, she said, I trust you. And now. She, oh my gosh. Now she sells her products all around the world. She has a TikTok channel. She has so \[00:12:00\] many followers. She has videos that she's posted on gut health issues that have reached in the millions. And now she is every, I think it's every Monday she does a live TikTok video where she's interacting with people. She has clients all around the world, and she'll tell, and she wrote a beautiful testimonial for me, and she said, my whole life has changed because Christine saw in me something that I couldn't see. Right. And that, I think is, that's, she's one of one of my favorite stories where someone actually reached out and then we just took it from there. And now she's helping people all around the world. **Kris:** Incredible. Incredible. I know who she is because she and Kenny were on, I don't know her, but I know. I know I've seen her interviewed before. She and Kenny were on the Oprah show at one point in time. **Kris:** When they were together and yeah and I'm, I actually really love Kenny login, so **Kris:** a good guy. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things that I think is really incredible about what you did, and tell me if I am \[00:13:00\] on the mark or off the mark here, but a lot of the people that I work with, and it sounds like she was in a similar boat where she didn't wanna be in the spotlight, was maybe a little bit shy. I think a lot of the people that I work with love the work they do. They're passionate about it and they just want to help people, but they don't necessarily want to step into the forefront and be visible and do all that. And I think for some people it can feel like maybe. Ego involved, or they're just shy, or imposter syndrome. There's all kinds of reasons that this happens. And when I work with my clients, much of the work that we do is around mindset. And much of the work that I do is just really encouragement. Like, you can do this and here's how step one, two, and three. But is was she in, in that kind of position? Was she more of a, like a behind the scenes type of expert or **Christine:** what would she say? Yeah, say, well, she. When \[00:14:00\] you're in business like that, and she was so busy doing the business. Again, remember, it's a very, it was a very time intensive. She still does, she still sees clients and does the colon hydrotherapy. **Christine:** But she does, she can relax a little bit because now she's got all of this other, the, you know, the, the sales of the, of the products and her consultations with people all around the world. But in the beginning, I think what it was she didn't, she thought that's all it was. Mm-hmm. She did not, she wasn't able to see outside of that, the label. Right. Right. Outside of that package. **Christine:** So having me look in and go, girl, like you, what? You're only helping people that live in a very small proximity. I have another client who's the same thing. She's a master hypnotherapist and a reiki master healer. And she was only. Now, she was Los in Los Angeles, and she was, she had some very high end celebrity clients, but she could only reach people that were there in Los Angeles. And I'm thinking, people in Saskatchewan or, people in, in, in, in London need to hear about your, you know, your wonderful work that you do as well and be inspired by you.\[00:15:00\] Mm-hmm. And so we got her, we, we basically created a podcast for her brand and her business. And now she's reaching people all around the world. She's got over like 150 episodes. She's interviewed Pat Beitar. She's killing it. She's 70, amazing. **Christine:** The thing is, is that she only thought as well, like, Julia, that this is all there is. **Christine:** So my whole thing is. That if you've, if you've got something that really truly helps people, if you're a coach or a consultant, if you're a fitness coach or a business coach and you can help a lot of people, you need to get out of your own way And it's almost with that imposter syndrome that comes up, a lot of times it's really hits women. It really hits, uh, people who are overachievers who wanna make sure everything is perfect. Yeah. And we as a society right now, we're craving authenticity. We're craving that connection. That's why story does so well. Right. That's why when I was talking about working with a OL and driving in traffic and all that, people \[00:16:00\] were, were glued to that story because they can relate to it. But it's a real true thing that happened. And it's not chat GPT made up. It's what happened. Right. So. We, we need that connection. And that's why I, every person that I work with, I'm like, let's get you out of your own way and get you to reach the people that you claim that you want to help and serve. Um, because that's the main goal, right? That's the whole thing. And if you don't show up, I have a thing on the bottom of every page on my website and it says, remember this, if you're not seen and you're not heard, you're not hired. **Christine:** Nobody is going to, find, go down your street and knock on your door and say, Hey, I heard you're the greatest thing. Chris Jones, you can help people with business. They're not gonna do that. But they need to see you. They need to hear you. And with that, your expert authority hopefully will come through and it does with you of everything that you do. **Kris:** I think you're fine too. You're fine. Yeah. I, you know, people come to me and they're they've been struggling with their messaging, their story, and. Often I'll tell \[00:17:00\] them, this, feels like a messaging problem, but it's actually a perspective problem. And what I can do is come in and look at you and your brilliance with fresh eyes and a fresh perspective that you can't get because you're inside that damn jar. So yeah, I, I like, I really loved what you had said about the gems, identifying the gems and putting them in the crown. And, um, I use a similar metaphor around mining for gold. Like the gold of your story is inside of you. It's not created by chatt PT or invented outside of you by somebody else. It's already in there, and it's really my job to unearth it. And those golden nuggets, they're rough around the edges. They're caked with dirt, but I know when I find them, **Christine:** then you polish 'em, you know, polish them up, polish, polish them up, and you get them. Yeah, **Christine:** know what, a lot of times too is that we think oh, that, that little thing that I did, you know, that little silly thing that I did, or we forget. We forget. And I, I'll tell people too, I'll say, you have \[00:18:00\] five bestselling books in you. You know, is that going to make you a lot of money? Maybe not most, most likely not, but it is gonna increase your expert authority. If you have a bestselling book. And so I really encourage a lot of my clients too, and not a huge, 'cause most people think it's, oh, I gotta write a huge Tom Clancy novel. No, it can be a little guide. I have a book that, my last book that I did, it's so thin that I don't even, there's no room on the spine for my name. Right. And, and I, and I have, I have five bestsellers and they're all little thin, tiny, itty bitty books. Right. **Kris:** And my mentor, Donald Miller, says, the perfect book is one you can read on one flight. If you're going, you know, there **Kris:** from LA to Denver, whatever. Can you read it on a flight? That's what people really, really like. And you can upload it to Amazon and get it out there and, and if you get a few clients from it, like Golden. **Christine:** Well, and it just, it raises your expert \[00:19:00\] authority. Remember I was, I told you earlier too, I was 20 years in broadcast journalism. I was a host, I was a producer, and I would get pitched from publicists constantly. I would also get pitched from people that would just inbox me and say, put me on your show. I wanna be on your show. And I go, well, you know, why? Why do I want to have you on the show? It's always about the audience, right? What is the audience gonna gain? So I would go to their website or I would look at what they had, and I'll tell you those folks that have written a book bestseller or not, but the people that were authors of books, they got moved up in the ranks. **Christine:** know, because I had something I could talk to them about. **Christine:** The book. I could just look at the back cover and go, yep. I could talk for hours about this subject. **Kris:** And the very pro, the very process of writing a book forces you to get so super clear about what you do, how to communicate it in a clear and simple way. And by the time you've birthed that, that book, you are a different version of yourself. You are that you are a higher expert and you, and you know \[00:20:00\] how to talk about it in a better way. **Christine:** You can also, I'm a repurposed queen, so, you can also take that book and you can create programs out of it. Signature programs, right? You can create courses, you can you can create blogs, take a chapter and make it be a blog or a newsletter. Let's say, you know, like in LinkedIn you can take one chapter and create a workshop or a webinar around it, or take the whole book, right? Right. Um, the, the last book that I did was the Social Media and Branding Survival Guide. Uh, the full title is Digital Marketing. So Irresistible, even your Ex Will Want To Follow You. Okay. So that gives you an idea of the, the kind of humor that I have. And I, and the book is fun to read 'cause it's silly and fun, but you also get good stuff. **Christine:** But the, you know, I finally listened to my own advice, Chris. 'cause you know. We as coaches, sometimes we spout these great, amazing things and then we don't take our own advice. And I finally, I said after, five books that I've written, one on social media and branding, the other ones are all on podcasting about how to create a podcast, how to be a guest on podcast. Fantastic. \[00:21:00\] But then I finally listened, and I'm working on my sixth book right now, and it's called The Expert Authority Code. And it's all about how to get seen, how to get trusted, and how to get paid for what you already know. **Christine:** And so I finally listened to my own advice and I'm, I'm writing and I'll be publishing this book soon, but it's all about my business and how I've seen, and I put, I put references to Julia Loggins and to a few clients of mine that are success stories, so that people can, they can feel that, oh my gosh, there is, there's hope for me as well. But I finally took something that is my baby, that I know more than anything. And I'm putting it into a book form, and that is also going to help my expert authority. So writing a book, publishing it, and there's ways I, I work with clients on how to make it be a bestseller. We have a very simple system to use. And it doesn't cost a lot of money at, at all. It doesn't cost anything. The process. **Christine:** But I think it's something that, that people need to, and realize this too. I have some clients and I say, okay, we need to get, we need you \[00:22:00\] to write that book on. Whatever it is, right? I have one client who helps find and she helps, she's an investigator and she helps find missing children. But her whole thing is about SA safety tips and strategies for parents. This is how to keep your kids safe, which I'm like, there's a bestseller right there, right? **Christine:** Oh, yeah. And every parent needs it. The thing is, is that if you're somebody who says, okay, I'm not a writer, Christine. I don't, I'm not either. I have five bestselling books, but I'm not a writer. If I look at a blank word doc, I want to, vomit in my mouth. I'm like, I, but I'm a talker, right? I'm a speaker. Yeah. So I take my workshops, my webinars, my podcast appearances, my coaching sessions, and I take all of that and I can transfer the video. Of those speaking events and transferred into interesting, wonderful, readable chapters in a book, not a transcript. 'cause that would be boring. **Christine:** But I can transfer that knowledge into pages in a book. And so if you're listening to this and you're like I feel that tug to write that book, \[00:23:00\] create that book, I always say instead of write that book, create that book because there's somebody out there that could really appreciate what it is that you're, you know, especially if you've overcome some obstacles in life. So you don't have to be a writer. You could actually be a talker like me. **Kris:** Yeah, that, that, I just finished my second book a week ago. Congratulations. Well, this iteration of it, but yes, I am really excited about it and learning a ton about the publishing process and, and all that entails. I'm very curious how you got to number one for all of yours. But before we go there, I wanted to share my friend Victoria, who is a writer. She is a writer, but she loves spoken words. She has been on moth many times and she loves to curate her story and refine it and get on stage and deliver it. And I think they give you five or eight minutes. **Christine:** I haven't been to a Moth event, but it's, I know I know of them and yes, it would be similar to a TED talk where you have only certain amount of time. Yes, **Kris:** yes. \[00:24:00\] But it's like you, half you be real **Kris:** you gotta, but you gotta be really good. So she loves telling stories in that way and she's been working on this book for a couple of years and feeling stuck and dead end and restart and. She just got frustrated and she ended up talking to a, an intuitive psychic who was like, listen, um, I won't go into all the details, but essentially the psychic was like, you don't follow roadmaps. You have to create your own roadmap for this book. You can't follow someone else's path. You need to develop your own way based on what nudges you're getting. And so. Really what she, where she came to with that was, she's not gonna sit down and write this book over a period of months. She's gonna write one chapter at a time, perform it live for her Substack group or her newsletter. So if you're on her newsletter, you get dripped out the book, chapter \[00:25:00\] by chapter and her performing it. Because if she has a, a deadline like that and an audience that's awaiting it, that's gonna give her nudge. Little drops month by month. And then by the end of, month seven or eight, she's gonna have a whole book. **Christine:** Oh, I love that. You see, that's a great process and everybody is different and unique in how they flourish, right? I knew when I, I, for years, I wanted to write a book, but I thought the process was gonna be too daunting. I thought I had to write a Tom Clancy novel that's 700 page book. And I said, I just, I, I don't see it. And, but I always had that, I could always imagine, my, my face on the back of a book, that photo, and I, I kept seeing it, but I, I couldn't understand how to get there. And because I can express myself, and I've worked so many years on messaging and communication, I know that I can speak my truth and people feel it, right? Mm-hmm. And so I know when it came to putting that content into a book so that \[00:26:00\] people can enjoy it. I knew that I had to do it this way, that I had to take the, you know, the video content of me really, channeling, right? Yeah. All of the stuff that I've learned over the years, and that was my way of conveying it. Now, some other people are great writers, and then some other people are great performers, and like your, like your client is, uh, she has to show up now too, because she's got an audience that's waiting for her. Woo. That's, that's some, I don't know if I could do that. I don't know if I could do that, but it's a great, that's a great way of, of going about in the creative process. Absolutely. **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah. And all to say like, what motivates you or what, you know, what's gonna be the hack that you can create for yourself that's gonna allow this to unfold, get it done, but to do it in a way that feels fun and not daunting, not overwhelming. **Christine:** That feels in alignment with you. That's the major thing. **Christine:** It's getting and getting it done. That's the other thing. Don't say One day I'll, one day I'll write that book. I've heard that, I've heard that too many times. One day won't come unless \[00:27:00\] you actually start the process. And I like to, for me, the simple pro I start off with, a lot of times, like in Canva I'll go in and create the book cover. **Christine:** I'll already know somewhat what the title is gonna be. I will throw it into chat, GPT after I've decided what the title's gonna be, and I'll ask for its opinion on it. And I'll say, does this, am I missing something? You know, is this hitting, uh, is this resonating with my target audience who is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yep. But I'll, in Canva, I'll create a mock. A mockup Yep. Um, of what the cover looks like, and I'll get it printed in color, and then I will have it somewhere near my desk where I see it, so that the book is already created. It's a little bit of, of brain. **Kris:** Your brain. Yeah. Your brain's like, oh we've done this, we've got this. **Christine:** it's the book is, the book is alive in that design. **Christine:** And now all I've gotta do is fill the pages. **Christine:** So that's my little hack. That's my little thing. You can **Kris:** borrow you. That's so funny. Just like a couple weeks ago I did a similar thing 'cause I have about four or five \[00:28:00\] different book ideas and I wanted to envision how they all work together and what they're gonna help people do. And so I put four different, I went into Canva, four different book mockups, the different, the titles of each one, what the, you know, the main call to action would be for each book and how that. You know, how I could support the readers of that book and what they're gonna get from it. But yeah, having that for me, I think we're both very visual people like having that. Um, and I didn't get into the details of the design so much, but I had that actual book mock up with the title on there and that that was good enough. It felt real. And now I've got this kind of overarching roadmap that I can, that, that I don't have to figure it out. I already figured it out. So yeah, And, uh, I would suggest too, people can do that for their own business as well, where you, even if you don't have a website yet or anything like that, when, if you. If you create \[00:29:00\] something that you can look at and you can go, oh, that's my business, or That's my brand, right? You know, my, your brand is not, it's not necess, it's not the colors that you use or the font, or the logo or brand is you, it's the essence of you. It's your vibe, it's your energy not to be woo woo, but it is. It's your energy that you put out, **Christine:** And so you can build out like, what does your business look like? What is your ideal day like? Like Mondays for me, it used to be when I, when I did work, even when I worked at the radio station, sometimes Mondays were like, oh my God, it's Monday morning. I gotta do the commute, the traffic go into the office. People are gonna have to talk. I, I was like so stressed out and then I said, okay, so what is my ideal bus? What would it look like? And I know I am. Human design. Hello, human design. I'm a projector. I work best by myself, isolated. But in a, in my home environment where I can be with my puppy, I can do a load of laundry, I can create my courses, create my books, do all those work with my \[00:30:00\] clients, right? And I can talk to people all around the world, right? From the comfort of my own home, and that's how I work best. So if that's how you work best, then imagine what that business looks like and how you can support that and do that. Other people, they need to have that interaction with, they need that social interaction, that water cooler thing. They want to be around other people. They feel good that they can go to work and then come home and work is over there in the office, right? If that's you, then you do that. Yeah. But imagine what it looks like and map it out. Even do a graphic on Canva. This is what. My website might look like, you know, there's so many tools you could use. **Kris:** totally. So many. I wanna hear about like your perfect week. What does your perfect Monday look like? Or how do you have themes for each day or days where you're doing Yeah. Podcasting. Yeah, I wanna hear about that 'cause I'm into that. **Christine:** My Mondays are actually relatively slow, so they're, Mondays are my days that I do my own personal projects. So I'll work on my book or I'll work on, a new program. I don't have as many clients on Monday. I have \[00:31:00\] a few Australian ones 'cause I'm here in near Sydney and it's Sunday in America. So no, nobody's booking sessions on Sunday. And most of my clients are American. So, um, Mondays are kind of my days that I can do the things that I need to do if I need to, you know, book a doctor's appointment if I need to take care of some things, if I need to go grocery shopping and things like that. Mondays are my day to do that. It's for. It's for me, right? **Kris:** It's like the, the cushion, the post weekend cushion. Like **Christine:** and I will, from time to time, I will have a client call. I don't, I don't block it out and say, no, I can't do any client calls. That's fine. But, um, you know, if it's one session, then the rest of the day I've got to myself. Tuesdays are my busiest day 'cause that's Monday in America. And uh, Tuesdays are crazy. Um, what I tend to do is I work into Saturday 'cause it's Friday in America, so I'll work half day on Saturday. My wife is a real estate agent. Fantastic, wonderful very successful agent. And Saturday she's doing open homes, so I have pretty much those Saturday mornings especially open. \[00:32:00\] So I, that's how I kind of work. I work really with my clients and, and business wise, Tuesday through midday, Saturday. And then Sunday is our day, like, you know, we try as much as possible to be with family, to go and visit friends, to do all those things. This last Sunday we went and did the. The iFLY, you know, the, the, it's like you're skydiving, but you're very safe and you're in a controlled environment. Yes. And we did that. And that was so much fun. That was so fun. **Kris:** It's so funny that you bring that up. Like, I, I feel like we're living very, like Did you do that? **Kris:** I did not do it, but I looked it up on Saturday and I get idea figured out idea where I can do it here in Portland. 'cause I wanna, I have an 8-year-old son, I wanna take him. Oh, **Kris:** And so, yeah, he would love it. And I showed him the video and we, he is getting comfortable with it. But It's so much fun for adults. And I was a little scared. I was a little nervous to tell you the truth. 'cause you know, it's a huge wind turbine underneath you and you're, you're flying. I mean, you know, it's wild. But you have somebody there that's making sure you're okay. But I saw, I was nervous \[00:33:00\] about doing it and going up in the thing like going high. **Christine:** And, um. I saw there was right before me was this 3-year-old who did it. And I said, okay, okay. The 3-year-old little baby can do it. Christine, come on now. And my wife and I, we have, we have the video, we have videos from it. And we had so much fun. The look on our faces, just, oh, **Kris:** did you get to go in together at one or separately? **Christine:** No, we did. You did it separately. Because we didn't, we didn't know how to but then you get the bug. You, you know, your son might you never know. Might **Christine:** Might wanna do this as a sport. Yeah. And you know what? It's a workout. **Christine:** really? And you don't realize, 'cause first of all, all the adrenaline is pulsing through your body. Right. And you've gotta hold your arms, you know, a certain way. And if you've got that resistance. **Christine:** So, um, so I was sore. Gonna do it. I was a little sore. **Kris:** I'll, I'll send you a photo of us this weekend. Yes. Great. I'm **Kris:** let's get back. I wanna ask you a little bit more about. Podcasting and why you believe in it so deeply for your clients. I am, listen, you're preaching to the choir. I know. I'm a huge fan. I think \[00:34:00\] it's such an incredible tool. Uh, it's only growing. Um, it's such a wonderful way for you two in the comfort of your own home. Uh, talk about what you love to talk about and meet new people. So give it to me like why should, yes, why should our listeners be on a podcast? **Christine:** Well, it's, it's twofold, right? So some clients that come to me, I can see right away. They need to have their own podcasts. They need a, a branded podcast for their business for who they are. Their personality is such that it's like, this is a no brainer. And think of all the content that you can create out of those episodes, right? Oh my gosh. Don't even get me started. But some clients I'll say, but then there's other clients that they don't have that in them. They don't, they're not gonna be able to be consistent with it. The, um, 'cause it's work. It's not, you know, you don't just hit record and it's everything's done for you. So for those clients but they have a great message or their whole business is so fantastic and they can communicate, right? So they can speak, you know, and they have a pulse. I'll say, I'll say, you need to be a guest on \[00:35:00\] podcasts. Why? It's important. Okay. So super important. Your SEO and your a EO, your ask engine optimization, which is chat GT ish, right? All those different search engines and ai every single time you're a guest on a show, your name is put out there right into the inner webs and on Spotify, apple Podcast, YouTube, a lot of the shows are done in video as well. So your name and your title of what you do and your website, many times, most times, 99% of the times the host is gonna put your website on there so people can find out more information in the show notes that is all out there on the internet and searchable. So if I put my name in, yes, if I put my name in Chatt PT or I put it in Google, um, of course my website's gonna come up first and maybe links to my social media, but also all those shows that I've been on. **Christine:** Just think about the reach that you have. **Christine:** You're also reaching an audience you can never reach. **Christine:** I'm able to \[00:36:00\] be in front of your people. **Christine:** I wouldn't be able to reach your folks unless being a guest on your show. Right. So those are like the main, most important reasons. **Kris:** Yeah. And if the podcast is a video podcast, then you're on YouTube as well, which is one of the most powerful search engines. So it's, you know, kind of back to what you mentioned about what's your essence, what is your energy, that is your personal brand and that can come through so quickly on video and on in audio too. And. Compared to like a still photo of you, a portrait of you, right? It might be beautiful, sure. But is your energy, your tone, your warmth, your confidence, your expertise? Is that able to come through in a still photo? No, it can't. But it can come through in a podcast interview and it's very important. **Christine:** And you're also, another great benefit is you're meeting people. So now \[00:37:00\] Chris, I know you're in my world now. You're a family, right? Yeah. And so now I'm meeting you and I can have you on my podcast, right? So you can reach my audience, but also we can network together. So if I've got a project, you know, I do these appar, uh, every quarter I do these stacks and they're expert authority people who offer, a cool gift. So I could collaborate with you. I could say, Hey, do you wanna be part of the stack? Or Hey, there's an opportunity. I have a mastermind. Would you like to speak at my mastermind? Mm-hmm. Right. So it's a great way to network with some really talented folk. And work together because I believe. There. I don't believe in scarcity mindset at all. But I believe, like if I'm, Superman or Batman, right? And I can help my clients, you know, do all these great things, imagine if I have the Marvel superheroes with me, right? So if I'm able to say, not only do you get me, but I'm gonna bring in Chris and I'm gonna bring in Steve, and I'm gonna bring in Tanya who all are experts in their own way, then the audience benefits the people that are having access \[00:38:00\] to that content. They benefit from our, our skills all put together. So that's another, amazing thing about it. But also you could repurpose your, you know, repurpose your content. If you're, if you love being interviewed on podcasts and you say some amazing things. Repurpose some of that, right? You can, you can use your own words in, you know, in books or on blogs and things like that. And, but here's the thing, if you are a guest on a show and you're lucky enough to get on a great show like this. Make sure you promote it. Don't just show up and say thank you and be done with it, and not give the host that promotion of that episode. The whole bloody episode is on you and promoting you, and if you don't lift a finger to promote it on your social media or your email, you know they're not gonna be invited back, number one, and it's just bad karma. **Kris:** I'm going to grab this little clip and put it at the bottom of my emails. That's amazing. I love it. All right, so as we wind down, I \[00:39:00\] wanna get into something tangible. So you and I both love to talk about websites. When you go to a potential client's website or someone that's new on your radar, when you go to their website, what are the three things that you're like, Ooh, don't do that. **Christine:** Yeah, I will say, first of all, invest in a really good headshot. Please don't just use a selfie or a picture from 1995 with **Christine:** Yeah, no. A really good headshot, it doesn't cost all that much money to book a photo shoot, but you wanna have somebody who can cap and somebody who, that's their specialty. Right. Not just like product shots or pet photographer **Kris:** or landscapes. Right. Or landscapes. Yeah. My neighbor has a big, a big camera. He can come over and take my picture, but they need to be good at. People Photos. **Christine:** exactly. And that headshot that you get if it really represents you, it can open so many doors. The photo that I use, and my God, I use it on \[00:40:00\] everything, is a picture of me with headphones on and a microphone in front of my face. I got glass, my glasses on. Yeah. I, the expression on my face is absolute joy. You can't even see my eyes. My eyes are closed. 'cause I'm smiling, I'm laughing. I'm having a blast. **Christine:** And so I use that on my website. I use that on my business cards. I use that image on a lot of things, and that's what opens doors because people get a feeling from it. Right Now, you don't have to do the same thing, but you need to have a photo that really shows who you're, who you are in one instance. The other thing is, um, and I'm telling you what to do, and then I'll tell you what not to do. Okay. So that headshot is really, really important. A great thing. Another thing is don't have a bunch of text and stick a an image in there just because, especially when they're images of other people put in images of you. If you're able to do uh, you know, a speaking event and you're speaking to an audience and you're there, and then you can see there's other people, you know, put those kind of \[00:41:00\] images there, or you behind the scenes doing what you do, but. The thing is, is what most people do is they have lots of text. The messaging is confusing. They're not using StoryBrand. They're not doing the thing that you need to do. But also, I say that if you confuse people and you have too many offers and too many things that you're offering, you're gonna confuse people and they're gonna drop out. They're not gonna even go in through your website. Keep it simple. Silly. Keep it simple. Great headshot. Don't worry so much about your colors. My colors, I've had, I've had those for a while. It's based on The Good and Plenty candy. 'cause when I was a kid, I loved the Good and Plenty boxes. Right. I love that. It was hot pink. Oh yeah. Black and white. **Christine:** So that's why I incorporated that also to trigger people's, subconscious mind that I'm yummy and I'm fun. **Kris:** Yeah. But it's also like the abundance of plenty. Good. And plenty. Yes. **Christine:** Oh, thank you. There you go. Didn't even think about that. **Christine:** But the things, um, and also I highly recommend above the fold, which means that when you go to the website, if it's on your phone or your web the desktop above the fold. **Christine:** Of you speaking directly to the person. Hey. Oh my gosh. Oh, hey, you landed on my website. Hi, I'm Christine. Yes. I'm the expert authority coach and I help you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. **Christine:** Hi, I'm Susie. Yeah. This is what I do. This is who I help. And then do a call to action. Click the button below to book a free discovery call. Click the button below to do whatever. Take my quiz. Short and sweet. That way people get a feel for you if you're shifty eyed, if they can trust you. 'cause you know you're, you wanna make that warm connection right away. So I highly recommend that. Above the fold just means before you start scrolling down the website the video, have it play. Now. Those are things that you should do. The thing you shouldn't. Well, I kind of said what you should and shouldn't do in the same thing, but I have, I had a client, I had a client who's a therapist, right. And she deals with a lot of people struggling with a lot of stuff, depression, anxiety, all that stuff. And I went to her website. Now she lives in a part of America where, um, there's beautiful like rivers and lakes and all of that stuff. \[00:43:00\] And when I went to her website, the one thing above the fold that was really big, and I think it had her name and what kind of therapist she was, but it was this giant bridge. And I said, excuse me. Why did you pick that image to be the huge, full thing that you see when you go to your website? She said, well, that's a, that's a local bridge, so I want, 'cause she's a therapist where people come into our office and she said, it's a metaphor And Yeah. Yeah. She goes, that's a famous bridge near where I live and work. And so it's, it's a landmark, and it's also, I'm the bridge to, you know, getting healthier and all. And I said, do you know what I feel when I look at that bridge? 'cause it was also like dusky, it was like getting dark. **Christine:** And she. She like, you could hear like the breaks, you know? Mm. She looked at that and she went, oh my God. **Christine:** And she said, I never realized that. And I said again, 'cause we're inside the jar and we don't see. **Christine:** So as soon as I said that, of course she's like, we're taking that down. **Christine:** And I said, just do a, you're a therapist, you know how to talk, do a video. **Christine:** Showing them that they can trust you and be vulnerable with you. Right. Do a video, not a bridge. **Kris:** Not a bridge. No, not a bridge. And you're not a bridge repair person either. I think if you're a therapist, you don't typically wanna show yourself on a hike in the woods, even though you might love nature. People wanna envision what it's like to work with you. And when people have anxiety or depression, even more so, you wanna overcome the unknowns, overcome any unknown, whether it's hearing you in your voice, getting a, a feel for the interior of your office. All those things help calm the nervous system down. **Christine:** Yeah. And it builds trust. And it's being authentic. **Kris:** I write it a minute and a half long video script for all of my clients, and I always say, I'm gonna write you this script. You are gonna have the words exactly what to say. You're gonna deliver it in your own way. But I've, I've got the words because I've, I've mined for gold for them, but they, I never pressure them to record the video, but I do say your website will convert so much better if there's a video on here. It's just gotta be on there, **Christine:** You know, I mean, not in a bossy way, but you, it's a call to action. **Christine:** If you want them to look at your. Products if you want them to look at, you know, if you want them to book that discovery call. **Christine:** You know, for me the value is not so much people getting a, a free gift from me or a lead magnet, blueprint or things like that. For me, the value is having that 30 minute free discovery call. **Christine:** Because then I get to, then I get to, in 30 minutes, I can find out a lot about you and we can, you know, plot the course on, on the \[00:46:00\] best way to go from there. But without that, it's really difficult to help anybody if you're just, getting, uh, you know, a free book or something like that. So whatever's the most important thing for you in your business that can turn. Someone who's looking at your website questioning, wondering if you're the right fit, anything you can do to foster that process. Then you wanna have that be your call to action. **Kris:** And typically you don't want them to have to fill out a big long form in order to do so. Help them get onto your calendar with ease. You can Sure. Ask them a few questions if you have a lot going on. And your calendar's pretty full, shorten the call length to 20 minutes. It doesn't always have to be more than that. Christine, thank you so much for Thank you, Chris. Showing up today and sharing your brilliance and your expertise and your stories. I just, I loved every minute of it. So tell my audience where we can find more of you. **Christine:** It's super easy, you just go to expert authority coach.com. Uh, they can find out \[00:47:00\] how to book that strategy call, but also all of the different stuff that I've got the, the podcast show, um, some of my books are listed there as well, but I really, if you do reach out, if you do go to the, the site and you, or you contact me, let me know that you heard me on Chris's show. That would be really important because that way I can also give that feedback to Chris and say, Hey, you know, someone who's a listener, uh, someone who's, who's watching this on YouTube reached out to me. That is really important for Chris to know too, that she's reaching, the audience that she, that she wants to reach. So, just let me know if you, if you heard about me on the show, that would be great and um, I look forward to meeting you. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and \[00:48:00\] I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/robokris ### Title: RoboKris ### Page ID: 8901341 ### Content: Studio Access via Gemini 3 Pro • Red Door Identity Protection *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-to-sell-anything-storybrand-soundbite-strategy-2026 ### Title: How To Sell Anything Using the StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy in 2026 ### Page ID: 8918667 ### Content: # How To Sell Anything Using the StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy in 2026 How To Sell Anything Using the StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy in 2026 If people **nod politely** when you tell them what you do and then change the subject... **your messaging isn't landing.** And it's not your fault. You're amazing at what you do. You get real results for your clients. But when it comes to putting that into words? It feels impossible. Here's the thing. **You don't have a sales problem. You have a clarity problem.** And it's silently costing you clients every single day. ? I call it **invisible rejection**, and it's the most expensive problem in your business because **you can't fix what you can't see.** In this week's episode of From Click to Client, I'm sharing the exact strategy that changed everything for me and hundreds of my clients: ? Why **82% of coaches fail** in year one (and it has nothing to do with talent) ? The **5 simple phrases** that make the right people say, "That's exactly what I need" ? How one coach **changed a single sentence** on LinkedIn and started getting warm leads overnight The best part? You don't need to rewrite your website or redesign anything to get started. I'll show you the **fastest way to test your message this week** using real conversations. **No more rambling. No more cringing. No more wondering why people aren't buying.** ? **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Speaker:** Here is the wild stat. 82% of coaches fail in their first year of business, and it's not because they're bad at what they do. It's not because they picked the wrong niche. It's not because they're not working hard enough. They fail because when somebody asks them, what do you do? Nobody understands their answer. Today, I'm gonna show you the exact strategy that changed my business and hundreds of my clients' businesses. This works if you're a coach, a consultant, a financial advisor, really any service provider who sells your expertise. it's called the StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy, and by the end of this episode, you'll know why your current messaging isn't working \[00:01:00\] in exactly what to do instead. So let's get into it. All right, so this is a question I hear all the time. I'm good at what I do. Why aren't people buying? So if you're someone who's great at what you do, you get results for your clients and you've got the experience, you've got the heart for what you do. But sales still feel really hard. I want you to hear something. This is not a reflection of your ability. It is not a reflection of your integrity or your value. The problem isn't your offer, it's not your pricing. It's not your experience. It's not how many certifications that you have. The problem is how people think about you, and that's what we call positioning. because right now, most of the people who could hire you, they have no idea what you actually do. Not because you haven't told them, but because the way you told them didn't land. So here's what happens in real life. Think about the last time someone asked you, what do you do at a networking event or at a party. You probably did one of two things. Either you rambled for two minutes trying to \[00:02:00\] explain all the ways in which you help people, or you said something polished but vague. That sounded really nice, but kind of didn't mean much of anything. They nodded, they smiled. They said, oh, that's cool. And then they changed the subject. and you walk away thinking, why can't I get anyone to engage in deeper conversations about the work that I do? Why does this feel so hard? But really it's not a sales problem. It's a clarity problem, and it shows up everywhere. It shows up everywhere. You show up online, not just in person. So I'm talking your website and your emails and your social media. Anywhere somebody encounters your brand and can't figure out what it is you do. And here's what makes this so painful. Most of this rejection is completely silent. People don't email you to say, I went to your website but I couldn't figure out what you did. So I left. They don't DM you saying, I almost booked a call, but your messaging was confusing to me so I didn't, \[00:03:00\] they just disappear. No feedback. No, no, no, nothing. Um, and that's kind of, that can leave you really wondering. What's going on, what's not working? I call that invisible rejection, and it's the most expensive problem in your business because you can't fix what you can't see. You are left thinking the problem is your price or your niche or your current strategy, but the real problem is that people couldn't understand what you offer fast enough to actually care and get excited about it enough to take that next step. So this happens because of simple brain science. There's a biological reason for this. Your brain is always trying to conserve energy. It's literally wired for survival. So when something takes too much mental effort to understand, when it creates confusion, the brain doesn't stick around to figure it out. It just moves on to something easier to understand. And that's exactly what happens when someone reads your website \[00:04:00\] and reads phrases like empowering you to step into your authentic self or holistic transformation, helping you live your best life. Those phrases, they sound nice, they sound. Beautiful. They sound poetic, but they really leave the reader asking more questions than they came with. So they force the reader to translate. What you mean? What does that actually mean? What does holistic transformation actually mean? When people have to work to understand you, they will literally bail. They will leave. They, our brains are like, Nope, uh, I gotta conserve calories, and this is going to force me to burn too many calories to understand what this is all about. Also, if you're not clear about what you do, people aren't gonna trust that you are the right one to guide them to help them solve their problem. So let me give you an example of somebody who figured this out in the simplest \[00:05:00\] possible way. A window cleaner once showed me his business card. It said, look at the nearest window. If it's dirty, call me and I'll clean it. That's it. No providing holistic window solutions. No elevating your home's Visual clarity just. Look at a dirty window. Think of me. And you know what? Now every time I see a dirty window, I think of that guy. He owns that problem in my brain, and that's what clear positioning does. Now, imagine if your ideal clients had that same reaction when they heard you describe what you do. Not a polite nod. But an instant, oh wow, that's exactly what I need. Or, wow, my neighbor is dealing with, that's exactly what they need. I'm gonna give them your information. So the real question is, can changing your words really change your results? Can it really move the needle for your business? I am here to tell you, yes, it can. I have watched it hundreds and hundreds of times. It actually works. It's the number one thing you should be doing if you want more clients. \[00:06:00\] All right. Another question that I get a lot, do words actually make that big of a difference? I know what some of you might be thinking right now. Come on Kris. My problem isn't my words. I need more followers. I need better content. And I get why it feels this way, but let me show you what happened when a coach I worked with changed absolutely nothing about her business except the words. This was a leadership coach. She had the same profile, same photo, same content, same audience. She ran two different LinkedIn headlines for 30 days each. Headline one said, helping leaders reach their full potential. Headline two said, you just got a big leadership promotion, but you feel like an imposter. That's it. That's the only thing that changed with the first headline, polite recognition, people saw it and thought, oh, she's a leadership coach. That's cool. And they kept scrolling. They didn't reach out and message her. They didn't book a call with her. But with that second headline, executives started reaching out saying, how did you know that's exactly what I'm dealing with right now? Same coach, \[00:07:00\] same skills, same LinkedIn profile, just one sentence changed, and strangers really begin to be very warm leads that she could easily convert into clients. So here's why this works. Helping leaders reach their full potential to describe. Everyone. It could be any one of 10,000 leadership coaches. There's nothing for the brain to grab onto. There's no urgency here. But a headline like you just got a big leadership promotion, but you feel like an imposter that describes a moment, a lived, experienced, a Tuesday night problem where someone's lying in bed, wondering if they're gonna get found out. When you describe a moment your ideal client is actually living through, they don't have to translate anything. They don't have to figure anything out. They don't have to figure out if you're talking to them, they immediately know, this is for me. That's the difference between messaging that gets polite nods and messaging that gets actual paying clients. And here's the part \[00:08:00\] that scares people. The narrower you go, the more clients you attract. It feels backwards, right? You think if I go broader, I'll reach more people. But broad messaging reaches everyone and actually truly connects with no one. Specific messaging might skip over some people, but the right people, they're gonna stop in their tracks. They're gonna message you, they're gonna DM you, they're gonna book a call, they're gonna tell you their friends. So how do you get that kind of clarity on purpose? That's what we're gonna talk about next. so the question is. Is there a simple framework to solve this problem? Yes, there is a framework for this, and I want to set expectations upfront. This is not about being clever or nuanced. It's, it's really about branding language. It's not about telling your life story in a catchy way. It's about five short phrases designed to make it incredibly easy for someone to understand what you do and why it matters. To them. It comes from StoryBrand, created by my mentor Donald Miller, and \[00:09:00\] he and I actually just co-authored a book together, applying this framework specifically to coaches and service providers, and I'll tell you more about that later. But let's talk about the five soundbites, the StoryBrand Soundbite Strategy at the high level. The framework gives you five soundbites, and together they spell the word peace. P stands for problem. This is where you name this specific problem your ideal client is dealing with right now. E is for empathy. This is where you show up and show them that you actually understand what that feels like. When you show up with empathy, you step into this story as the guide, as the Yoda, as the Mr. Miyagi. A is for answer. This is where you position yourself as the solution to the problem that you just talked about in one simple sentence. C is for change. This is where you tell them who they're gonna become once their problem is solved. This is all about their aspirational \[00:10:00\] identity. Then the final E is for end result. This is where you paint the picture of what life looks like on the other side. Together. These five phrases create instant clarity. They grab attention, they become the front steps to your business. The thing that makes someone stop and say, tell me more. Okay. Let me show you what this sounds like for a real business. let's say you're a business coach. Your problem soundbite would be you built a business you can't step away from. If I was in that position and I read that headline. I would get pulled into that. Your empathy soundbite would be, feeling trapped by a business you've built is exhausting. I'm gonna repeat that. Empathy is so simple. Feeling trapped by a business you built is exhausting. Your answer, I help entrepreneurs build companies that run without them. Your change soundbite is become a confident CEO who knows how to delegate and your end result. Take real vacations while your \[00:11:00\] business runs without you. So now notice what's not in those five soundbite phrases. No jargon, no nuance, no methodology, no detail about how you solve the problem. No, you know, leveraging detailed framework that you use. It's very high level and it's meant to grab attention. Each one is a single sentence, and yet when a burnout business owner hears those five phrases, they're not politely nodding. They're thinking, how do I work with this person? Because that's exactly where I am. And if they understand my problem to this degree, they are obviously the best one to solve it. And that's the shift that I want you to feel. I want you to stop explaining what you do and how you do it, and, and start describing what they're experiencing. When you describe what someone's feeling, they trust you before you've even had a conversation, and that's the power of this soundbite strategy. now we're gonna get into. \[00:12:00\] The common mistakes that people make with their messaging. Okay, so now you've seen what really good soundbites look like and what happens when they work. Let me save you some pain. Here are the five mistakes I see people make over and over again. Mistake number one, making it about you. The first one is really. When you lead with your story, your credentials, your certification, I'm a certified life coach with a master, master in psychology and 15 years of experience, and your potential client's eyes blur and glaze over. So here's why that doesn't work. When you lead with your credentials, you've positioned yourself as the main character. You've become the hero of this story. But your client doesn't need another hero in their life. They need a guide. They want someone who sees their problem and knows how to fix it. Your client doesn't care about your resume. They care about your ability to solve their problem. Lead with that, lead with their story. It doesn't mean \[00:13:00\] your credentials aren't important, it's just you wanna introduce them at the right time after you've positioned your clients as the hero of your story. Mistake number two is being vague, and honestly, this is the most common one that I see. I help people find balance. I guide women to step into their power. I support professionals in transition. These phrases feel safe and broad, and I get why people create them. But you, you know, I think it comes from a good place. You don't wanna exclude anyone, but they really don't mean much of anything. A, a potential client would read that and go, what, what does that actually mean for me? When they leave your website, they're not gonna end up taking action. that goes back to that invisible rejection that we talked about. Mistake number three. Super common is over complicating. This is when you try and capture everything you do in one sentence or on one page, and you get into the weeds with the details, you might list out three outcomes, two \[00:14:00\] different audiences, a couple different methodologies and sentences just keep having more commas, and they get longer and longer. And the clarity. Diminishes with every word that you add. Here's my rule. If you can't say it in one breath, it's too long. You need to cut it down. I would say, as a general rule, everybody that I talk to when I look at their website, my initial reaction is, cut it down to half. Remove half of the words that you have on this page. As as, as a general rule. Alright, mistake number four, skipping empathy. And this is kind of a sneaky one because you name the problem and then you immediately jump to your solution thinking, oh, I just articulated the problem. Now I need to talk about my solution. But it's really important that after you share the problem or after you articulate, articulate the problem, that you follow that up with empathy. let me share with you what this sounds like. So if you had a headline that was struggling with your weight \[00:15:00\] sign up for my program, that feels salesy. It feels like you have an agenda, um, and that you're kind of too eager to sell me on your offer or your program. People really need to feel understood. And connected with and empathized with before they trust you. They need that moment where you say, I get it. This is hard. I get it. This is hard. They need to hear that before they're ready to hear what you offer. So don't skip over empathy. If you skip that step, they're gonna feel sold to and not seen. And then the last one, the last mistake, number five is pivoting too fast. So a lot of coaches change their positioning every couple months because they're not seeing results fast enough. But here's the reality, you need about 90 days of consistent messaging before you can actually judge whether it's working. You need that time to. To say it to people in real life, \[00:16:00\] to talk to people on Zoom, to get a response to understand if it's working. Like your, your message needs time to gain traction. Just about when you get bored with your messaging is just about when it begins to gain traction. So people need to hear your message multiple times. I think it's gone up, but it, it, it's at least eight times. People need to hear the same message before they can actually commit it to memory. So the more you repeat things, actually the better it is. Every time you pivot, you are not building momentum. You are starting from zero again. So. Pivot with caution. I'm not saying that you can't pivot, but give your message enough time to work. So you might be saying, okay, I'm in. I'm sold. When can I get started? So if you're thinking I need to do this, here's the fastest way to start, and it's probably not what you'd expect. Don't go rewrite your website, don't redesign your Instagram. Don't spend three \[00:17:00\] hours on Canva. Go talk to a real human. Next time somebody asks you what you do at an event, at a, at a dinner party, at a coffee shop, use your sound bites. Just try them out loud and then watch what happens. Are they leaning in? Are they asking a follow-up question? Are they telling you about someone they know that has that problem? If yes, your soundbites are working, if they glaze over and change the subject, that's data too. That means refine it and tweak it and try again. You can learn more about your messaging in about two hours of real conversations than you can in 90 days of posting on LinkedIn or Instagram. I also wanna introduce to you the idea of the one-liner, and I have a freebie, uh, on how to do this on my website. So the formula you can use for answering that question, what do you do? Um, it's called the one-liner and the spoken version goes like this, okay, I'm pretending somebody is asking me what I do, and I'm gonna say, you \[00:18:00\] know, how. Women often struggle in perimenopause with brain fog. Uh, I help them rebalance their home hormones so they can wake up refreshed, get their brain back, and have energy throughout the day. So that is a spoken version of that, and you can have a written version of it as well. It's like a little bit more. It's not more formal, but, but it doesn't start with, you know, how, um, so you can follow that format to answer that question, what do you do? So I'm gonna repeat it one more time. You know how. Who fill in who, who's your audience? You know how, who struggles with problem? Fill in the problem right there. I help them fill in the blank solution so they can fill in the blank result when, um, it's a little bit challenging to do it. Via audio. So if you really wanna dig into this, go to my website and download the free \[00:19:00\] guide that's called How to Write Compelling Copy in five minutes, Flat, and it will give you a little worksheet and a little five minute tutorial on that. Okay, so that is it. Fill in those blanks. Draft three versions this week and read them out loud. Then go out into the world and answer that question. What do you do? You don't have to cringe anymore. You don't have to feel awkward, you don't have to wing it. Every time somebody asks you, you, you're gonna have memorized that answer. And about the fifth time you do it, it's gonna click and it's really gonna get kind of down into your cellular memory and it's gonna feel so much more fun to do. So here's what I want you to walk away with today. The five soundbites that we talked about are not taglines. They're not something you put on a mug and forget about. They're literally infrastructure for your business. They go on your website header, they go in your Instagram bio, they go on your LinkedIn banner, they go in your email signature on your sales calls, literally anywhere you're wanting to get attention, you put those sound bites, you can put 'em in your proposals, really anywhere \[00:20:00\] somebody encounters your brand and when you get them right. Something will shift. I promise. I've watched it Time and time again. You stop having to explain yourself and convince people about what you do and why they should buy. You start attracting the right people who already feel like you understand them. This is huge. Now, if you wanna go deeper on this. I actually just finished writing a book about this with Donald Miller, the creator of StoryBrand. It's called StoryBrand, your Coaching Business. 12 Simple Strategies that Make Dream Clients Say Yes. The Soundbite strategy is the foundation of that book. It's the foundation of our work together.But then the book is gonna walk you through all the details on exactly how to do it. Alright? And if you are wanting help, now you're thinking, I need someone to help me figure this out. I want my soundbites. That's literally what I do every day. Head to red door stories.com and book a moneymaking messaging call with me. We'll look at your current messaging. We'll find the gaps. \[00:21:00\] We'll identify your sound bites and we'll figure out what's working and what's not and what you actually need. Even if you don't book a call with me, I want you to do this one thing. Stop using phrases that nobody can repeat, and start using five clear soundbites that makes the right people say yes. That is exactly what I need, because when your message is clear, it does the selling for you, and that truly changes everything. Thank you so much for being here today. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/enneagram-for-leadership-team-alignment ### Title: Enneagram for Leadership: How Founders Can Align Teams and Lead with Confidence with Ali Dunn ### Page ID: 8970782 ### Content: # Enneagram for Leadership: How Founders Can Align Teams and Lead with Confidence with Ali Dunn Enneagram for Leadership: How Founders Can Align Teams and Lead with Confidence with Ali Dunn If your team keeps missing the mark and you feel like you have to carry everything yourself… it’s not because they don’t care. You probably just don’t know what actually motivates them. Most founders try to lead everyone the same way. Same feedback style. Same expectations. Same communication. And then we’re shocked when half the team is disengaged. Here’s the thing. **You don’t have a performance problem. You have a motivation problem.** And until you understand what drives each person, you’ll keep over-functioning, over-explaining, and over-correcting. ? In this week’s episode of *From Click to Client*, I sat down with **leadership coach and Enneagram expert Ali Dunn** to talk about how the Enneagram can completely transform the way you lead. ? Why understanding motivation matters more than behavior ? The real reason burnout, imposter syndrome, and perfectionism show up differently for different leaders This conversation is practical. Not fluffy. Not theoretical. You’ll walk away thinking differently about your team and yourself. You don’t need a bigger team. You don’t need better talent. You need clarity around what drives the people you already have. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. Allie Dunn, welcome to the show. Today. I have been so looking forward to this conversation. Allie is a leadership coach, speaker and Enneagram Pro. She helps her clients who are founders. She helps them lead with more confidence and less grind. Allie, welcome. **Ali:** Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. **Kris:** So tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into this work. **Ali:** Well, I am someone who, when I was a teenager, was doing every quiz in the back of a, you know, Cosmo magazine or Teen Beat. So I've always really been interested in psychology. I've always been interested in quizzes and in my career I would say my. 1.0 career. I worked in sales, uh, fashion wholesale, and so I did a lot of traveling. \[00:01:00\] It was very fun. Um, adventurous. Spent time in New York, LA, Las Vegas. And then I became a mom shortly after that. And what I noticed when I became a mom of this wee little baby, I live in California and my family's in Nova Scotia, so I'm originally from Canada. Um, I found myself at a crossroads and I did not know what the next. Part of my career would look like because as someone who was traveling a lot, how did that work with a baby? What did that look like for my future? So I ended up in the early part of motherhood, staying home with my daughter. Which was supposed to feel like a privilege, but in that time I was not enjoying myself, but couldn't really find the words to articulate it. **Ali:** Had another daughter. So I have two teenage girls today. Um, and went on this self-discovery journey, right? Like, who am I, what matters to me, and why do I feel so misaligned? And kind of noticed that the world seemed very happy and fulfilled, and I couldn't quite figure out maybe what my purpose was, my values, or understand my motivation. So I joined a women's, um, networking and coaching group who were trying to figure out like their next path. And part of this group was taking the Enneagram \[00:02:00\] assessment. So when I took this assessment and learned that I was an Enneagram type seven, which is someone who wants to experience it all. Motivation is to do all the things, and the fear is in confinement. I realize why my life was not aligned, right? Because I was living a day-to-day experience with my sweet babies, but also I had not a lot of freedom, not a lot of excitement, not a lot of spontaneity, right? So kind of a very rigid structured lifestyle that I wasn't used to living. So when that happened, I thought, wow, this Enneagram. Piece. This is really fascinating. And, and what, like what could I do with this? Or how will this play a role in my life if I skip forward to today? I started my own coaching business. Would be eight years next month. And I originally didn't use the Enneagram as a tool. It was a tool that I was using for myself, right? So that I can understand how to run my business, how to work with clients, how to support other people. And then I realized I wanna get certified in this tool, right? I wanna bring this tool to teams. So I work with teams as well to help them with their communication and connection, and then also with my individual clients. So once I kind of \[00:03:00\] dove deep into the Enneagram, I couldn't get myself out. Mm. **Kris:** Amazing. So let's rewind again back to when you initially went through the Enneagram with your little girls at home. At that point, did you have one baby at home or two? **Kris:** Okay. And so you discovered, oh my gosh, the way I'm wired is completely opposite to the way my life has been structured at this phase. Um, what did you, what do you do, like when you're kind of in a bind like that, how do you, how do you nurture that part of yourself? That type seven, and also, I mean. You got these kids, so got these kids **Ali:** Exactly. Well, and it's so interesting 'cause it took me a long time to put the puzzle pieces together so I could recognize my unhappiness. Right. And I could recognize a misalignment. And a lot of the work I was doing that time, I was, you know, seeing a therapist trying to kind of uncover my identity as a new mom, plus going through, you know, the Enneagram and this kind of coaching part of it. And what I realized was that I was using. \[00:04:00\] When I could, I would travel with my children. So that was something I would do. Like I took my girls to Paris and Italy, like I did these kind of adventures, even just me and the two of them to meet up with family or whatever it might be. Wow. And everyone would say, you're so crazy. How can you do this? And I thought this part, I mean, yes, stressful, but feels easy to me. The hard part is like going to the playground and just watching my children slide down, slide for three hours. Right. So it was just like, when I realized that piece, I thought, okay. How to get unstuck like that is the challenge, right? So you have the information in front of you and you think, what are the changes that I need to make in order to start living this part of my life? Right? So I think at first it was just micro steps, right? And just making sure that. 'cause Enneagram sevens also like, you know, culture variety. So making sure I point in new restaurants, seeing new friends, having fun. Like I worked on my personal life at that time because I felt like my professional life was still, um, I just couldn't see what it was. Right. And I didn't feel like I had the full bandwidth. 'cause you said I still have these kids. My husband traveled a lot at the time as well, so I was really alone a lot. So a lot of time for deep reflection, trying to bring the fun and \[00:05:00\] joy into it and then realizing. Sevens are actually also very entrepreneurial. So there's something inside of me. I think that I always wanted to have my own business, but I was too scared to make that leap. **Kris:** Mm, got it. Got it. Okay. So it's so fun to reflect back, right? Because it's like, oh, I can see the golden thread. That became the life that I have now, but it's, it's fun to kind of deconstruct and reconstruct and, and for me. I have an 8-year-old now, but when he was born, I was a solo parent. I went through, I'm a single mom by choice and so I went through IVF. I knew what I, what I was getting into in the fact that I knew that I was gonna have a baby. Yeah, I did not know what I was actually getting into. And I very wired around freedom, travel, um, spontaneity, um. All the things. And so I didn't realize what I was getting into, um, as far as the level of responsibility, and I found, I haven't really thought back to that time as far as my Enneagram, but \[00:06:00\] I found, I figured out ways to keep my mind engaged and two. Keep learning to keep growing, um, and in hindsight, like those limitations that he brought into my life. Are the very reason that I work the way that I do now. It's like, oh, I've gotta have boundaries around this. I have to have a very structured and streamlined offering that doesn't change from client to client that I can, that's a proven system that, that I can walk through with my clients. And it's such a gift. It's such a gift. But often those, um. Perspectives and awareness is born from being in a, a, a pickle if you'll, you know what I mean? **Kris:** Yeah. So let's, um, let's talk a little bit about Enneagram. I, I know a tiny bit, like I know that I'm a type three. But I don't know a lot about what that means. For somebody who is new to \[00:07:00\] Enneagram, um, tell us like the 1 0 1, what is it? **Ali:** Yeah, I mean, what's interesting about the Enneagram is sometimes I think you can even take the name of it out of the equation and replace it with motivation. Because really what the Enneagram does is it measures your motivation. So through, there's multiple assessments out there that we can do. So through an assessment or really just reading about the different types, there's nine of them. And understanding, you know, why we do the things we do. So it's not necessarily behavior, it's not the action, but it's more the why behind it. So we have our nine types and each type is linked with their own motivation and it varies as to what they are. You said you're a type three, so that's achiever. We have our type ones, which are perfectionists. Twos are our helpers. Fours are the creatives. Fives are the specialists, six are skeptics. Seven like that would be me, the visionary. Um, eight are our controllers or challengers. And the nines are the peacemakers. So within that, that essentially is telling you your motivation. So if you're a type nine, the motivation is to keep the peace. You are more focused on harmony. You tend to be conflict avoidant. Right. So just knowing \[00:08:00\] those two small things about you can change the way that you operate and that you show up in the world. Because if you, most of us don't notice our patterns, right? So we are kind of living our life day to day, and the same things are happening, but we're really not stopping to be curious about this. Why do I do the things that I do? And, but the Enneagram, it's less about, okay, this is your label and you're kind of stuck in this box. It's almost like you're already in that box, let's name it. And then you get to choose. When you wanna step out of it. So it's really about like growth and expansion and less just about, so I'm this type accept me who, for who I am. And so that to me is like the growth part. Like it is always evolving and you're always growing and it's not just at the end of the day, I'm only this type and there's no work to be done. **Kris:** Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can imagine it also brings a lot of compassion to this self because then you're like, I get why I'm doing this all the time. Of course I'm doing this because I'm a three or a seven. Um. And you don't have to beat yourself up about, or think you should be different in \[00:09:00\] some ways. Not that you, you can't work on things in your life or your personality, but, um. **Ali:** you. Yeah, and I love that you brought that up. 'cause I will say that's probably the number one thing that happened for me when I figured out my type was the amount of self-compassion that I could bring to myself. Because a lot of it, and what I tell my clients, a lot of it is like feedback you've received through your life that becomes. Part of you, right? And we don't necessarily need to carry all that feedback or own that feedback. And sometimes it's in, you know, the eye of the person giving it to you. So for an Enneagram seven or myself, a lot of feedback that I get is I do too much. I'm always on the go. I never slow down. I wanna see and do all the things I can't focus, right? So it becomes part of your identity and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. So therefore you see yourself as someone who doesn't complete things, who wants too much. But the reality is, is like that is my comfort zone. And now that I've grown, matured, and done the work, I know how to close the loop. I know when to sit still, but I also really love that part of myself. And I think I was denying it for a while, specifically maybe in those younger \[00:10:00\] years with my children, because I thought I should be a certain way. 'cause I think my behavior or my motivation didn't align with some other Enneagram types, right? So now that I can see that, I say, oh, okay. For example, a type one. Perfectionist sevens and ones are quite opposite, so I always say like a seven can learn a lot from a one and a one can learn a lot from a seven, right? Because a one is much more like structured systems. Logic or sevens are no. Spontaneous and optimistic, but a one can be uncomfortable with a seven's behavior. Mm-hmm. And a seven can be uncomfortable with a one's behavior. And if we can just name that discomfort, it just allows us to depersonalize. We're just not the same. We don't want the same things, but we can have the language to meet in the middle. And so that piece of self-awareness, which is why I think it's so effective as a business owner when you're working with people, whether you're in a team, so that you can name these differences, and then just find a way to connect. **Kris:** It's so beautiful. I, I feel like Enneagram has kind of blown up over the last few years. I know Donald Miller, who's my mentor, is creating a whole course on \[00:11:00\] Enneagram. Oh, no way. Really everything he does is, you know, with founders and business owners, and I think it's been such an incredible tool. I'm curious how you use it, um, in the coaching process. Like I'd love to hear a story about a founder or a client that came to you, what they were struggling with, and how you integrated Enneagram to really move them forward. I. **Ali:** Yes, for sure. I mean, it's such a beautiful tool. I use it with all of my clients. Um, we meet initially, like in our first session, I will do more of like a background and an intake and then I wait to the Enneagram in the second session because I'm, you know, just trying to get to know everyone. Uh, so I would say, I mean, people come to me for all different reasons. A lot of times it might just be confidence. Leadership mindset. Sometimes it's strategy, uh, sometimes transition. I don't know what I, what my, what's next is I need to know how to leverage my business, whatever it might be. But one, one story that comes up, um, to me was a female, like kind of co-founder and president of a company. And she was really very high level in her work and her role, but found \[00:12:00\] herself. Feeling more responsible for her team members and essentially like the wellbeing and the culture of the company and really struggling to maintain that balance, which with the strategy, right, and with the business goals. And with the outcomes. And so we did her Enneagram. We found that she's a type two. Okay, so type two is the helper and the motivation for the type two is to be liked and appreciated. **Ali:** Right. So imagine walking through the world and your actions are about trying to get that appreciation right. And trying to feel liked that can be debilitating. **Ali:** Right? That can be something that stands in your way every day. And, and two, because they tend to be feelers and they're deeply empathic, they're carrying like the weight and the feelings of the people. Around them constantly. Mm-hmm. So the work for the two is to really be able to also depersonalize and desensitize and for all of the effort that they put on others to actually put on themselves. **Ali:** And sometimes twos can have a story that taking care of the self is selfish. So that's something we worked on. Right. So first of all, like you Matter and twos can sometimes use \[00:13:00\] helping others as a way to deflect from their needs. Right. Like, don't pay attention to me. I'm fine. I'm deflecting, I'm helping others, and they have a harder time setting boundaries. Mm. So once we kind of were able to name what was going on and the motivation behind why she was overextended, right? And taking care of all these needs, it was, we were able to kind of help with the boundaries, put up a bit of a barrier, and then really have like her professional goals be about, yes, both can be true. You can have connection. With your team, right? You can be there, but you also can be strategic. You also don't have to take this home with you. Mm-hmm. And also your needs matter. So having that language to talk about it, it's like, I mean, transformative. I would say she would probably admit that she's, I mean like a full 180 since when we first started working together. **Kris:** Right, right. Like you really like a doctor, like diagnosed what was going on under the hood named it, brought awareness to it, and I love that you shared. The, the, there's a story going on and which gives us agency around, okay, if this is a story, why don't we tweak the \[00:14:00\] story or adjust it or change it? And I imagine every Enneagram number has their own stories that are, that show up a lot. **Ali:** It's so true. I'm actually doing a talk this evening on the Enneagram, and the point that I'm speaking to is the, you know, our internal question, the stories we tell ourselves based on type, right? So what we say to ourselves. So the type one, for example is, am I good enough? Hmm. Right. So that's, that's the self-talk that's happening, right. Am I good enough? Right. And then a type five is, 'cause their motivation is to understand, do I know enough? **Ali:** Yeah. So the type one is gonna be, am I good enough? Right? Because the type ones are always seeking to do the right thing. So for also the audience maybe recognizing themselves in any of these types, it's like. They're, you're a rule follower, right? If you're type one, you're a rule follower, so you're always trying to be better and do the right thing. Um, yeah. The type two is often, do you like me? Right? And they're worth, so the story with them is like, their worth is equates to how much they \[00:15:00\] give. **Ali:** Yeah, it really is. And I would say from a burnout perspective, they're definitely one of my top burnout clients because of that giver syndrome or like that obligation that they have to others. Um, for the type three, um, failure's not an option. Am I'm successful in that. Ah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So three, because they're so goal oriented, they kind of, their success is measured on outcome. **Ali:** Right. And less on essentially like being, so like the work for the three is really around, um, like connecting to your values, connecting to your emotions, like being curious about, do I even like what I'm doing? **Ali:** Like, am I just on this trajectory? Because it's like what society expects **Ali:** What the world thinks I should be doing. And so sometimes there's a disconnect. Between the head and the heart for the three **Ali:** This is so good. This is so, and then the type four is, 'cause the motivation for the four is around being unique. Okay. So they have this strong desire to be different, but then the story that they're asking \[00:16:00\] themselves, why does everyone else have it so easy? Right? Like, why can't I just figure things out? Right. So they are, so they're, they're what I call like the deep sea divers because they're so emotive and they're so inward. So if you work with a four or have a four client, it's like design creativity is on the forefront, but there's also. This like need to be deep all the time. **Ali:** So for them, they kind of tend to be in work that has like more purpose or creativity, but they also, their work is to be able to lighten up a bit. Right. And kind of be more logical and less emotive. **Ali:** Type fives are actually our logical type. So their motivation is to understand, so like I mentioned, it's more like, do I know enough? So type vibes won't really come out. And like say, present, or maybe they wouldn't feel comfortable speaking until they had all the answers. The reality is, is we never have all the answers. Mm-hmm. But there's a fear around not being seen as knowledgeable. **Ali:** Type sixes. So those are a loyal skeptic. So the motivation for the six is to be safe. Right. So the sixes operate, um, on the philosophy that something \[00:17:00\] could always go wrong. So they're always examining like what could go wrong and what could go right before they make a decision. And so sometimes for them, um, they feel like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders. 'cause if no one else knows where the emergency exit is, they must need to know. Yeah. Right. So you may have a friend like this or a client who's like always prepared. Checks all the Yelp reviews, right? Has all the bandaid. Um, so then, yeah, so the seven is the enthusiastic, the visionary, as I said. So the motivation to experience it all. So the story with the seven is really around, um. Freedom, right? Like, do I have freedom? Am I, I don't wanna feel confined, I need to be in choice, right? So some of the work I do is like, talk is about how you communicate with different types as well. So if you're communicating with a seven, it's like you wanna communicate with options. We could go A, B, or C. What do you think? It's collaborative and communicative. So their story is like, I must do all the things. I must have all the fun. So that does become an identity piece for them, and it can become too much of a good thing. Mm-hmm. So \[00:18:00\] that's with the Enneagram, if you're kind of overly saturated in your motivation, that's where you need to figure out, how do I draw that back? **Ali:** Right. Because it becomes unhealthy, right? Mm-hmm. Too competitive, too perfectionistic, you know, to experiential. Our type eights are the challengers or controllers, and their motivation is. To control. They wanna control the outcome. They're fearless leaders. They're really justice oriented. They're very direct. So the story that they tell themselves is that power is more important than vulnerability. Mm. They have a really hard time opening up. I see a lot of this in the workspace of just like a lot of eights in leadership positions, but not feeling like they can be vulnerable, the team. So they come across more in that classic kind of top down management. It doesn't work. Um, so I sometimes say they're kind of like spiky on the outside, but like marshmallow on the inside. Oh yeah. But I just have really a hard time. Like you have to build trust with them. **Ali:** And then our nines. Um, so they're the peacemakers. So the motivation for harmony, uh, conflict avoidant. And so their story to themselves is almost that their needs don't matter. So they would rather, like, they don't wanna create a ripple, so I'm fine, you're fine, we're \[00:19:00\] fine, everyone's fine. But what can happen is they can withdraw, right? So we don't hear from them as much. They're not speaking their needs and they can even have a hard time knowing what they want, right? So it's less even about fear what I want, but not, but just not being able to, um, tap into their intuition. **Kris:** Wow. Yeah. Ugh, that's so interesting. Yeah, so I work with a fair amount of leadership coaches and consultants, and the thing I hear a lot from them, like an underlying theme again and again, is I have a big vision. I have a great team, but I can't get, the team rallied behind my vision and I can't get them aligned, and I can't get them to execute without me having to constantly make it happen for them. So what would you say to that? I know you, you do some work with teams like. I can only imagine that having this awareness for each of the team members would bring, again, back to the Kim, compassion, back to the back, to the understanding. But, uh, tell us another story about what's happened for a team. **Ali:** Yes. So, \[00:20:00\] and I mean, I could say so many things about this. 'cause like you said, with the diagnosis, like I have my fingers, you know, together, I'm like, okay, how do I make this better? Because I consider myself a problem solver, right? Because I wanna diagnose. **Ali:** Um, I mean, I've worked with so many different types of teens and it does often start with the leader, right? Like what you're talking about. So we have a leader that's maybe if we're talking in the Enneagram of a certain type and they're not. Feeling like their team is hearing them, right? They're not feeling like there's a connection. Their team is not performing. So we'll use our Type eight as an example, because I often see the eights more as a leader in these spaces. And then I'm gonna throw, I'm gonna make up a team. So we've got two nines, maybe a one and a four, and you've got an eight liter. So with our eight liter, they tend to be so direct and so assertive. They don't want fluff, flowery language, nothing. Right? They're like, this is the job. This is what needs to be done, and let's do it. You also can speak to an eight like that. They are not offended. They actually prefer it. I think where things get misaligned is that, you know, we're taught. Kinda growing up, like treat others how you would wanna be treated. I think in the Enneagram, I think about treat others how they want to be treated. \[00:21:00\] Mm. Right. So the shift comes in with our leader. Right. If you're a, that **Kris:** could be the ti. That could be a title of a book. That could be a title of a leadership book. Yes. **Ali:** Because it's true. Right. Foundationally, of course, let's all treat each other well. Right. But beyond that, I like, I wanna see you and understand you and figure out how to meet you, where you're at. **Ali:** Right? So how do you want feedback? How do you deal in conflict? So in that space with the team, my goal is to help like my nines come forward and. Speak. Right. Teaching them how to be more assertive and meeting our eight is very important. **Ali:** Teaching our eight, how to lean back and give space for our nine is very important because we all have this lens on productivity. Right. And kind of that type A personality. And unfortunately that's just been the way leadership has looked for so long. I'm trying to make room for. All the types, right? Mm-hmm. I'm trying to make room for introverts, extroverts, whatever it might be, so that we all can be seen and valued. Mm-hmm. For our strengths, right? Because a nine to a team brings diplomacy, collaboration, right? They have a global perspective, they have their own superpower. And then if we move to \[00:22:00\] our ones once and eights tend to connect slightly more easy because they're both a direct. Enneagram type, and they tend to be very structured and want outcomes. Um, so you, they might, there might be an alliance on that team and not a lot to talk about. But then if we bring our four, our fours are deeply emotional, deeply creative. They want to have long conversations. They wanna be seen in the one heard, and eight is like one minute and I'm out. Four is like book a two hour meeting. So how I work with that is just naming it, right? I'm coming in, I'm naming it, I'm giving some tools. Maybe we're working through feedback. 'cause that's part of it too is like how we speak to each other and how we get feedback. Every Enneagram type has a feedback style that they prefer. And we kind of go through that as well. So then, you know, with the eight, it's like you can send them one text and they're fine, right? They don't need a meeting, they don't wanna go deep into it. But a one, for example, who's already so hard on themself, you need to make sure that you're succinct and complimentary. Right? So depending on where they are. So that's how we kind of fuse together to make the team more cohesive and more empath. **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah. That would be a complete and total game changer. \[00:23:00\] I mean, it should, it really should be a requirement for all leaders to provide this, or all corporations big and small, to have this integrated into their, their team. **Ali:** Because they all wanna be seen and heard, and it's really just a framework and almost like. You know, there's some people who do kind of how best to work with me. You know, that idea. And I think the Enneagram is like that. Like now that you know my strengths, 'cause every type has strengths and challenges and blind spots, **Ali:** Right. So now that you know this about me, now that you know how I am in conflict. Mm-hmm. Right? Am I reactive or am I withdrawn? Right? So just knowing this about each other helps us not take it personally. **Ali:** And then it gives your leaders like. A card for performance, like how do I motivate you if you're a type three? **Ali:** Right. I, I acknowledge you. I may publicly talk about you and say how great you are, and you're like, I'm good. Let's keep going. You know? How easy is that? **Kris:** Totally. You know, and I think with AI these days, as a leader, you could. Put your whole team's profile into AI and be \[00:24:00\] like, okay, how are we gonna navigate the review, the motivation, the goal check-ins, all the communication. **Ali:** it's really that simple because, and, and when you really hone in on the uniqueness of each of the types and the individuals, it does give you that framework, like our type fives for example. They tend to be more, they're incredible boundary setters and they tend to retreat. They like to be in their cave. They kind of like to be alone. And so if you're having a meeting with them about feedback, they're not engaging right away. They need time. They need to the permission walk away process come back to me tomorrow. But we don't give people time, right? We want answers now. We want the, you know, strategic plan by the time we walk out that door. **Ali:** Yeah. So to get the best out of your team, you just need to know their motivation. **Kris:** Totally. Wow, that's really cool. So do you, with the people that you work with, do they come to you with common complaints or frustrations? Like are they, like I do they ha do they struggle with imposter syndrome or what are they navigating that you help them with? **Ali:** \[00:25:00\] Such a good question. As you say, imposter syndrome, I'm nodding. Ferociously. Um, yes. Uh, and I primarily work with women. I do have some male clients, but for the most part I work with women. So I usually feel like it's a combination of like strategy and mindset. And the common theme really is, um. I would say perfectionism, imposter syndrome, confidence. Mm-hmm. So, and it shows up and burnout. So probably those four things. Right? **Kris:** Oh my gosh. Everyone who everyone was listening to this is like, okay, they're tuning in right now. **Ali:** exactly. And so. Not everyone can sometimes name it as well. Like I always say, people kind of come to me with an initial problem, which is like, yeah, I'm not, you know, I'm trying to get a promotion. Maybe like that's the goal, right? Or I'm trying to scale my business, whatever it might be. But, but behind that really is more like the self-awareness and the self work, right? Because it's about what. The things that you say to yourself, the thoughts that you believe, right? Right. The things you believe to be true, your limiting beliefs. **Ali:** story. Back to the story, right? Yeah. And this is all a construct of society. Like these are \[00:26:00\] not true. Right? It's either something that someone's told you or you've held onto since. Great school, right? Mm-hmm. So my work is to help people kind of dismantle these stories, right? And ask like, are they true? And if they are, I would like to see the evidence and then let's work from there, right? Yeah. So while we're doing this work, like on the imposter syndrome, it's just. That's something that someone has almost chosen to believe. And sometimes when we're stretching and growing, um, you know that inner critic, that voice is about keeping us safe. **Ali:** Right? So don't take that risk. Don't take that leap. Stay where you are 'cause it'll save you. Embarrassment, failure, all of that. I am pro fail. I am pro. Put yourself out there because that's how we learn. Mm. Right? But a lot of times people don't have that sounding board or that partner to support them through this, right? Mm-hmm. So when I'm working with my clients, I'm like, I am here for you, right? Like, I've got you. You try this, right? You put yourself out there, you do this pitch, whatever it is, and if it doesn't work, we regroup. We just evaluate what we, what do we wanna do differently next time? And I think what's happened is that we all hold our worth close to like outcomes or perfection. And so when we \[00:27:00\] don't meet those goals, we hide, right? And then shame comes and then we get stuck and I'm just like, fail forward everyone. And I think men have a lot of an easier time doing that than women. And so that's why my work, I feel like, is so focused on women because I just think more empowered, women leaders, better world. **Kris:** Oh yes. Hell yeah. Yeah. We really need that so badly right now. Yes. Your work is so important. Thank you. I'm so, I'm so happy you're doing this. And I love what you shared about the mindset work. Yes, of course. But then the strategy and pairing those two things together and the importance of the strategy too in, in the process. **Ali:** yeah, and just understanding your strengths and challenges. Like I have a client who's, uh, also an Enneagram seven, which means she does a lot of the things. All the things. And so working with her was like, you know, mindset, but also just like narrowing her focus. Yeah. Right. So I know that she wanted to do all this stuff or have all these offers per se, and we're like, what? Actually aligns with your motivation. What are your values? What's important to you? Yeah. And let's go deep instead of feeling like she's spread so thin. Mm. \[00:28:00\] Now if I was working with a type one, it would be more the opposite. Let's expand your horizons. Right. Let's see what's possible. Right, right. So it's just so interesting being able to tap into like these blind spots that we all have, and then helping people build these businesses or careers that align with like who they truly are and what they It's so beautiful. I talk so much about the clients that I work with, the founders, the coaches, the consultants. They are so close to their own, their own self, their own brilliance, their own work that they're, I liken it to like they're inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. And I tell my clients, I'm like, yes, you've been struggling with. Finding the right words to talk about what you do. I get it. It's, it is in many ways a writing problem, a messaging problem, but. Half of it is just a perspective problem. I can come in here with fresh eyes and look at you and look at your business and to me, the golden nuggets of who they are and their story and their, \[00:29:00\] their, their brilliance. Like it's very easy for me to identify that. I'm noticing with the work that you're doing is very in alignment with that. Like you're able to come in, they're so close to the struggles that they're having in their life and much of it they've been carrying around since childhood. So it's like right here and, and you're like, describe your hand. But their hand is like right here. Right here against their face. You can't describe it, but you get to come in with your tools and with your perspective and with your wisdom, and diagnose and decipher and make sense of the things that don't make any sense. **Ali:** Yeah, it's so true. It's so similar. Mm-hmm. And exactly. I always say I'm meeting people where they're at today. I don't know your history. I don't know how people see you. You're not someone's brothers, wife, sister, whoever like you are you today. So looking at being able to give someone the gift of looking at them with fresh eyes from a completely like neutral space. Like my only goal is to see a higher vision of you than you can see for \[00:30:00\] yourself. **Kris:** Mm. I love that. Will you repeat that one more time? **Ali:** My goal is to see a higher vision for you than you can see for yourself. **Kris:** I love that so much. I have been talking lately, or I've had a couple conversations lately about the difference between coaching and therapy, and both are important. I've done both. Um, but I have found that coaching can be. So powerful in that you're like, you are really honing in on where are you today, and not that some of the past beliefs aren't at play in the current day, but. I think it's so much more empowering to kind of go, okay, here, where are we right now and where do we wanna be and how are we gonna map out that plan, rather than kind of marinating in the why this, why that, why this? Like gaining some understanding, but really moving forward with tools. I just, I love coaching in that way. **Ali:** I, no, I agree with you. And I think, like you said, there's a place for both of it. I don't \[00:31:00\] think I would have the confidence or the clarity that I do today if I hadn't had years of therapy. So I think that part, you know, understanding my childhood, understanding the dynamics, understanding my family. I think even with the Enneagram, they say that it's formed in kind of child like grade school years, how we got our needs met sometimes within the family dynamic. Mm. So I think that part's really interesting. But I agree. Like my role is to meet you where you are today and move forward. And there is something therapeutic about obviously being in therapy and being able to process. But most of my clients who've come to me have had some amount of therapy. **Ali:** And I think that's such a great kind of entry point. So they know their patterns a bit. They know of maybe why they aren't the way they are, but they're ready to just let that go. Right. No one wants to hang around and the I am this way because my parents did X, Y, Z. We're all grown adults, so I think we, yeah. Process it, work with it, and then let's move on and, and really feel empowered that we're in choice because that's also what the Enneagram is about. Being in choice. Like I may be a seven, but I don't have to necessarily live in that seven energy 24 7. I probably. Would be living a very \[00:32:00\] different life if that was the case. Right. Like I do need to be a parent and I need to run a business and I need to be responsible. Yeah. Right. So I get to choose when I wanna bring that energy in, or when I wanna go to my more quiet type five self. Right. And read my book. Mm-hmm. **Kris:** Mm-hmm. Mm. All right. Um. As we're wrapping up today, if someone is listening right now and they are feeling stuck or overwhelmed, what is one thing that you would tell them to do first? **Ali:** I think it's just clarity. Ask yourself some questions, right? I would say ask yourself what's working, what's not, and what do I wanna do about it? **Kris:** If somebody wants to discover their Enneagram, where would they go to figure that out? **Ali:** Yeah. So after those questions, then figure out your Enneagram. There's lots of resources out there, but I have a quiz that I've developed, which I would call like an entry level Enneagram quiz, just so that you can kind of understand your where. You lie in that space. Um, I also do Enneagram, \[00:33:00\] single Enneagram coaching sessions as well, so I do offer just a one-time session. Okay. Most of my clients I work with for six months at a time and we incorporate the Enneagram, but if you're just curious more on what's my type and how do I apply it with my current circumstances, I offer that as well. And then of course, numerous books and resources and all of that up there as well. **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah. Um, que one question for you. So you mentioned Enneagram is often formed in the grade school years, so you are not born into your type necessarily. **Ali:** Right. So I think the idea is nature nurture. Okay. So I think part of us is like in kind of our DNA, we're set out to be a certain way, right? Mm-hmm. And it's funny because I notice like with parents and in partnerships, people having conflicts, feeling like, well, I can sort of change or influence. So it's like in some ways we really can't, like people kind of are who they are, but we can make suggestions, right? You know that you're a parent of an 8-year-old, right? I mean, how much control do you really have? Yeah. And choice, choice, choice, choice. Exactly. And so I think with the. Environment, though I do think environment matters because when we're in a family dynamic, there is a role for \[00:34:00\] everyone. **Ali:** Right. So I could share within my family my, I only found this out later, but it was very clarifying for me to understand the role of people in my family. I was raised by a single mom, she's a nine. So Harmony peacekeeper. I have one older brother, he's also a nine. Harmony peacekeeper. Okay. So they're keeping a lot of peace and I'm like, I'm gonna go party. I don't know. Right. So I feel like, I just felt like it was just an interesting dynamic where I thought, well, does, you know, could my mom lean in more? Right. This is the question I'd had my whole life. And then once I realized her type, I thought it's just not in her nature. Yeah. It's not that she doesn't care, it's just the way that she was showing up. Mm-hmm. And I felt like we had kind of a. It was my single mom, so sort of less like socioeconomic, you know, kind of like luxury. So I felt very confined and restricted by what we were able to do. So I didn't travel growing up. **Ali:** Right. I didn't play sports. I didn't have choice. Right. There wasn't a lot of choice. So I think my reaction to that environment was like, I'm gonna make this life. The best that I can. Throw on a backpack. See you later. Right at 19, because I just thought I, I need this part in order for me to feel like fulfilled. Right. So I think that that happens at that time. \[00:35:00\] Your instincts kind of show up then. But I do think you're also a product too, of obviously your parents and then of course some DNA as well. **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I love that you offer a one-time session for people to dip their toe in and get some clarity. Tell us where we can find you and the best way to work with you. **Ali:** Yeah, so you can find me on my website is allie dunn.com. On Instagram, I'm Enneagram by Allie, so I have some little videos and tips and tricks there. And then also on LinkedIn. So the best way to work with me really is. Um, on my website, you can book a discovery call, see if we're a fit for coaching, or you can directly book that one time Enneagram session. And what I love about that session is I also send you an intake form, so you got a 23 page report plus a little intake so I can find out what your goals are and I tailor the session to match your goals. Mm. This is not just who are you, this is who are you and what do you wanna do about it? Right. How does it apply? Because I'm very much equal being and doing. Right? **Kris:** Okay, everybody, go to allie dunn.com and take the \[00:36:00\] quiz. Book a session. I'm going to book a session myself and I cannot wait. **Ali:** Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-to-write-a-signature-story-that-gets-coaching-clients ### Title: How to Write a Signature Story That Gets Coaching Clients with Rachel Feldman ### Page ID: 8995878 ### Content: # How to Write a Signature Story That Gets Coaching Clients with Rachel Feldman How to Write a Signature Story That Gets Coaching Clients with Rachel Feldman If your marketing feels heavier than it should, the problem usually isn’t that you need another funnel, another certification, or another social platform. It’s that your story isn’t clear yet. In this week’s episode of *From Click to Client*, I’m sharing a conversation I had with Rachel Feldman about how to write a **Signature Story** that actually gets coaching clients. This is the foundational work most coaches skip, and it’s the reason so many websites feel like online brochures instead of client-converting tools. When your client becomes the hero and you position yourself as the guide, everything shifts. Your messaging feels grounded. Your website builds trust. Sales conversations feel simpler because you’re no longer trying to convince anyone. You’re just clarifying. ✨ Why one Signature Story can power your entire marketing strategy ✨ The biggest mistake coaches make on their websites If you’ve been feeling like marketing requires constant hustle, this conversation will feel like a deep exhale. **Speaker:** I had a really great conversation with Rachel Feldman on the Healthy Hustle Podcast, and what we talked about is really gonna help you leverage storytelling to build deeper connections with your audience and turn your expertise into consistent revenue. Who doesn't want that? So I'm gonna share that conversation with you today. Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Rachel:** Hey guys, I'm so excited. I'm actually having Kris Jones back on the podcast. She had such a compelling episode before. We'll definitely put that in the show notes, but I wanted you to hear why story is so important to set yourself apart. And to really be able to have your ideal client view you as this unique personality showing up and \[00:01:00\] stand out from the crowd. So Kris, can you tell everyone a little about you before we dive into this conversation? Yes. **Kris:** Yes. I'd love to. My name is Kris, as and I am passionate about story. I work with tons of coaches and really help them. Understand on a deep level how powerful their work is. You're great at what you do now, really the ticket to more clients is really communicating that in an authentic way, in a way that feels really aligned with you and in a way that really, truly connects with your ideal clients and. Once you do that I think a lot of coaches understand the power of story, but it can be a bit mysterious. What is it? Do I have a story? Is that compelling? How do I have **Rachel:** a lot? And it's, I love that you just said that. I hear I don't have a story. And then you ask them like \[00:02:00\] five high value questions and all of a sudden unfolds this like many stories. These migrants within a bigger story and I'm always saying to that coach, you have such a compelling story. **Kris:** I have yet to meet anybody who doesn't. Everybody has a compelling story, period. But the challenge is as coaches, we're just so close to our own business and we're also so close to our own brilliance and our own genius that we can't really articulate it that well. We the things that we think are. just normal or given really aren't. And so often I liken this to being trapped inside of a bottle, trying to read the label that you can only read from outside the bottle. And as business owners. We're all there like it's true for everybody and a lot of the coaches that I work with think \[00:03:00\] Oh, if I just work harder at this story or keep working on at it, I'll have a breakthrough and Yes, writing is a huge component of this, but it's less of a writing problem and more of a perspective problem. What you need is somebody to come in and with perspective, look at the brilliance of your bottle label and read it for you and really read it for you. You have this awareness of how important the work you do is. And the byproduct that my clients experience time and time again is really this deep knowing, internally on a cellular level The power of the work that you do and what happens is more confidence. So you, have your story, you have the right words \[00:04:00\] the the story that's going to really resonate with your clients. And then you get to reuse that story in every area of your marketing. I'm. A big believer in let's do less, but more effective. Yeah. And I believe. All any business owner really needs is one really powerful story. And you can use that on your website. You can use it on your social media. You can use that same story. And I show my clients how to do this. You use that same story on your sales calls. Every coach I work with dreads sales **Rachel:** calls because Before we go on, I just want to piggyback to even some fundamental basics, because I feel like somebody saying they're like, I do have a story, but it's not getting them client. So how do you find what story is going to be appealing to your clients? How do you discover that within \[00:05:00\] all the stories that you have? **Kris:** Yes. There's typically one core, what I call signature story that every coach needs. And that signature story is once you have it, you can tell it again and again, the fundamentals of every story ever, told, whether it's a movie. you went to watch over the weekend or a book you're reading always begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve and they're looking for a guide. And so your story is less about like your background or how you got into this. business or your childhood. It's not about that. The story that I would encourage your listeners to tell is really a narrative that invites your potential clients into a story with you. A story where they are the hero and you play the \[00:06:00\] guide. The guide is more of a secondary character in this. story, which is a relief to most coaches you're not the central character in your story. Your clients are, you are the guide, which is the, like the Yoda or the Mr. Miyagi. You are actually the strongest character in the story. So you're very important, but you're not the hero. And I think most coaches default to making themselves the hero of their own story. And this is just it's so normal, right? And this is what most websites are doing out there. Most coaching websites, they're making themselves the hero of their own story. They're making their website all about them. And they're forgetting to really take the time to make their clients that central. character of the story, taking the time to really connect with them. Like just if \[00:07:00\] you'd meet somebody new for coffee, you would sit down and you'd really connect with them before you started coaching them or telling them about how you could solve their problem. You would connect first. And that is such an essential part of telling a story. So you don't want to make yourself the hero of your own story, but the, thing that happens a lot is a coach goes into business and they're like, okay, I need a website. I got to crank this out. I got to get on Wix or Squarespace, and I'm going to follow the templates that they give me. Okay, they're In this section, they're telling me to talk, to introduce myself and talk about myself. And so you follow the lead of the templates that are given to you. So it's nobody's fault. But this is why it's so common. We're like, it's my website. I should talk about myself. And yes, \[00:08:00\] you should talk about yourself, but there's a time and a place for it. We really want to. First, the priority is really to make our heroes, our clients, that central character. So just to give people a quick overview of the fundamentals of every good, compelling story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. If they could solve their problem on their own. They would this is why you have a job because you know how to solve an important problem that your hero can't solve all by themselves. They're out and about, they're asking their network, they're on the internet, they're looking for a guide who can help them solve this problem. But what happens so much is they come to your website and they're like, huh, she seems wonderful, like a very lovely person, but I'm just not feeling connected or for \[00:09:00\] whatever gut reason I have, this person doesn't feel quite like the right fit. And so they bounce to another website and they continue their search and they think it's because, They just don't click with you for whatever reason they don't don't feel like you're the right one for them But the truth is you probably are the right one for them. They're just not You're not telling your story in a way that really builds the connect and builds **Rachel:** nurturing and trust and then less trust factor **Kris:** People want to work with people they feel connected to, they want to work with people that they trust, and so the fundamentals of story really prioritize that trust building and that connection and that resonance, and then you can step in as the guide, you can give them a very clear \[00:10:00\] and simple plan the plan is an important part of the story because nobody wants to jump off a cliff blindly. No one wants to click on your call to action if they don't know where it's gonna lead them. So we want to give them a plan and show them what's this going to look like. And also the plan is an important part of the story because it shows their brain like where the finish line is. They're like, okay if I go through this plan, the finish line is not far off. And then they have this internal. Which is I can do this. And when they have that internal thought, they're really inspired to click on that call to action. And everything that we do in your signature story is to really, it's really in service of them clicking on the call to action. That's how we know your website's working. That's how we know your social media is working. People are \[00:11:00\] clicking on the call to action. And then we pull them through the story and keep them engaged through what I call stakes and stakes just mean success is to be had, but failure is also possible. And stakes are really the reason we go to a movie. We sit down and the movie turns on we don't look at our phone for 90 minutes We don't get up to go to the bathroom. We don't get up to get more popcorn Because we need to know what's gonna happen. And so we use those same fundamentals of story in your website and in your marketing to keep people in It engaged in that level and honestly, nothing has the power to capture our attention the way that story does. And that's half the battle as a coach is just capturing people's attention, but also becoming memorable. \[00:12:00\] Like, how are people gonna know you and what you do on such a clear and in such a clear and simple way that you're the one that comes. It's first to their mind when they have the problem that you solve. **Rachel:** Yeah. Tell me when you're creating the flow of a story. Let's just say for your about me page, because I think from about me page you can use it in so many other ways on social media. What is the flow of story? I mean there has to be something of course of your own journey, but to what extent do you share that? **Kris:** Yeah. I mean your website is definitely not your resume. It is. It is really about the hero and I'm glad you brought this up because, I really believe the way that people are engaging with your website now are on your phone. \[00:13:00\] Mostly they're typically on their phone. They come to your website and this motion if, you're listening or if you're if you're on video, you can see me, but if you're listening, I'm holding my phone and I'm doing this scrolling motion. This is very intuitive. It's very easy to scroll through a page. And in a perfect world, they don't have to navigate to secondary pages. To gather the information they need in order to confidently take that next step with you, right? So number one, you're about page. I integrate that into the home page Yeah, and so it's really seamless to scroll through a maybe it might be a longer page but it's much more effortless to move through that page and Allow this story to unfold and Intentionally and sequentially as they move down the page. So your \[00:14:00\] about me section, the way I do them anyway, there it's new, it's nuanced. It looks like an about you section, but it's really about you as it relates to your client. I saw as the guide. As the guide. Yeah, you step in as the guide and you remind them what's possible. Number one, who do they want to be? I know you want to be a, what, how would people want to, how would your clients want people to describe them as confident? a confident leader in your community or an incredible, incredibly, a parent that's like incredibly connected with their children. So we want to begin your about section with really who they want to become. And then we move into, we really just move into the story flow. So your about section. in \[00:15:00\] many ways, is like a mini story within a larger story. And you repeat, you repeat the flow. And so you start with their aspirational identity, and then you move into The problem is you can't do, you can't be that because of this problem, right? And then you move into what you believe. And this is what I call a philosophical statement. What you believe is just plain wrong or what you believe is true. I believe you deserve a simple path to feeling your best. You deserve a, the support that's needed in order to whatever it is, right? And then you move into, that's why I've made it my mission to solve this problem. And, then you you can build some authority there, but it's briefly, you don't need \[00:16:00\] to like brag or boast or list all of your accomplishments. You just need to show that you solve this problem. That's why I've made it my mission to help. Clients like you solve this problem. I've done I've, that's why for the past 15 years, I've worked with 350 clients solving this particular problem. And then in the about section. I always like to, answer the question, how are you different from the rest? And whether you know it or not, you are different from the rest. Again, I have yet to meet a coach that doesn't have their own unique imprint or their own unique kind of special sauce of how they solve this problem. Here's how I'm different from the rest. And then I do a few bullets of really what, what makes you unique. We call them to action. **Rachel:** Yeah, \[00:17:00\] I love that. And where on the homepage do you have that integrated like kind of flow of problems? And then you get to high this is me, meet me or meet your coach. **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah. So when, somebody lands on your page, you have about five seconds to communicate what you do, how it's going to make their life better and what you want them to do next. So I call that the hero section. We're just identifying who that hero is and letting their brain know Are they in the right place or not? That's what they want to know. Am I in the right place or not? If they are, if that's resonating with them, they're going to engage in your stories. So you're going to start with the problem and the overarching problem that's going on for them. And then I like to follow that with a few bullets. That get into the nuances of their struggle and this really helps \[00:18:00\] them feel seen. They feel heard. They feel not alone in their struggle. And they feel like, Oh my gosh, she's in my head. And when you can really articulate their problem in their words, they automatically think you're the best one to solve it. So we want to, there's a lot of, there's a lot of layers that happen in that first problem section that are really essential to telling the story. And then the other thing that they're asking is, I joke that when someone comes to your website, they've got three questions. What's in it for me? What's in it for me? What's in it for me? So after the problem section, they're nodding their head. Yep. This is, where I am. This is just the way it is. It's it's never going to change. And then I like to follow that section with just showing them what's possible. Sometimes our clients get so \[00:19:00\] stuck in their problem. They've forgotten what it's. They've forgotten what's possible for them. So it's your job as the guide to really remind them of what's possible. And the way a lot of coaches get this wrong is they get excited about what they do and how they solve their problem and they get right into features that features working with them rather than the end benefit of working with them. So a different way to frame this. section is to say what's their life going to look like after they've worked with you. What's possible for them. And at that point, they're resonating with us because we've articulated their problem. We've shown them very clearly. We've. Spoon fed them early. What's in it for them, right? Their brains fully engaged. And at that point in the story, they're like okay, this feels \[00:20:00\] really good. I'm engaged. Who's behind all this? And that's when we move into the guide section where you can step in as the guide guides. True guides don't need to brag or boast. You just need to show up with empathy. You have so much heart and so much empathy for your clients because you maybe have gone through a similar struggle. And so we want, really want to lead that guide section with just oodles of empathy and some authority and really helping them understand that you know how to solve this problem. **Rachel:** And when you're extracting that main signature core story to your social media, how many stories would you say that you need to rotate? **Kris:** rotation story? No I think everybody needs one story. When you've \[00:21:00\] taken the time to do the heavy lifting of crafting your signature story, you anytime you need to write for social media, you go back to that story and you pick one thing in there. You might pick one problem. You might pick one part of the plan, but you've basically got content forever. I wrote my Signature story years ago, and anytime I need content, I just go back to my signature story, and I pick one thing, and I write about it. It really depends, too, on how much you want to post, I personally I don't want to spend my time posting on social media. So I have crafted like 15 very strategic posts. If you go to my Instagram, there are 15 posts. I've turned my Instagram grid into a really powerful sales page. So you can see on that page, \[00:22:00\] every comp. component of story broken down into a different post, but when they all work together, it allows people to very quickly understand what I do, how I can help them how my process works and what I want them to do next. So I have taken the entire year off of Instagram posting because I know it's set up to sell for me. That being said, I do I do post in reels. Periodically based on if I have something that I want to share, like a new podcast or something that's going on. So the idea in my perspective, the idea is really again, like how can you do less on how can you not have to do the things that you constantly feel like you should be doing. And social media is a big one because. It's very time consuming. \[00:23:00\] It's not always very effective, but yet as a coach, we really just want to be doing the work that we're on the planet to do. We don't want to be a part time marketer. We don't want to feel like this constant homework is hanging over our head all the time that never ends. **Rachel:** Yeah, I love when you said earlier in this interview how you want to work smarter. It's like you want your website, you want your stories to really work for you. Would you say that, how vulnerable do you need to be in a story? **Rachel:** But the client identifies with you and really says this person's in my head. **Kris:** Yeah. I don't think that requires a lot of vulnerability. What it requires is you really knowing the nuances of what your clients are \[00:24:00\] struggling with. **Kris:** I mean you can, there's a time and a place to say listen, I. I, I struggled with this my, myself and I overcame it and here's how I did it and now I want to help you do the same thing. **Rachel:** This is my mission. Yeah. But you don't think in like the frame, that frame of the about me story, if you do the hard work, you hire somebody like yourself, you're really then getting long term. Marketing strategy forever more. Yeah, **Kris:** forever more in every area of your business on your social media. If you choose. If you want to do social media, networking events in person, if you're speaking on a podcast you can you just always go back to that story. It's the fundamental part of your business and it's the most compelling way to help people understand \[00:25:00\] how wonderful you are and what you can do for them and how you're different from the rest. So yeah it's, really. The ticket to freedom, in my opinion. **Rachel:** So if, what are the places that you build visibility since you didn't do social media? I know the social media works like a sales page, but what are you seeing that some ways to really show up in social media these days? **Kris:** I, set up my set my Instagram as a sales page, but I really think of your website as the center of your marketing universe. So it's like the sun and then there are planets that orbit around the sun and there are a million ways to get visibility. And a lot of coaches feel like they need to be doing everything and be everywhere. My philosophy is. Pick two things that you really \[00:26:00\] enjoy. Do you love do you want your own podcast or do you? Don't know if you don't have time for that. Do you enjoy podcast? Guesting that's a really great way to meet new people and point people back to your website Whatever you do It feels so much easier because you don't have to do this selling, you know your website site's going to do that for you. So it's just you, point everybody to the center of your marketing universe. So for my own business, I don't really want to spend my time posting. So I did some deeper work, got my Instagram dialed in. So I have a presence there, but where I really enjoy spending my time is having conversations with people. So my two, I say pick two planets. You do not have to pick more than two planets. My two planets are \[00:27:00\] podcast guesting and email marketing. Yeah, those are the two. I pay attention to my list. I pay attention to my people. I'm in touch with them regularly on my email list. So that's my one planet. And then the podcast guesting is my other planet. **Rachel:** I love that. What are you saying? I would love to talk about this cause I hear this all the time and I would love to hear your feedback, but a coach will say to me why I've been told I don't need a website. Yeah, especially in the beginning of being a coach. Now, for me, I feel like I've never hired somebody without a website unless they were less, maybe they were a referral. And still, I like to see a website. A hundred percent. **Kris:** Yeah. I think a lot of people are I don't know, taking that position. If you want to do a lot more work and you have endless amounts of free time and you like hustling. \[00:28:00\] Then don't have a website and do all that heavy lifting yourself. **Rachel:** Fancy funnels. I think that's the thing when I hear somebody say, you don't need a website. I think you have to have very fancy funnels to be able to do all that communicating. **Kris:** Yeah. And even then, I think. If, somebody is wanting or considering working with you, the first place they're going to go is your website. How many times have you been on Instagram and you're like, Oh, okay, I like what she's saying. I'm going to go check out her website. Yeah. If the website falls flat or there is no website you're in a mystery, right? **Rachel:** I saw a lot of coaches shift to stand store and I would say, please don't do that because I don't feel like it nurtures enough. You're just leading somebody to an e commerce product **Kris:** completely. You're going here, buy this. Before you've \[00:29:00\] taken the time to really allow them to get to know you. The beauty of a website is they get to spend time with you. They get to be with you. And when you're not even there the website is working 24 seven for you. It's the most powerful way to get clients. If it's working for you, I feel like a lot of coaches have websites. They come to me and they're like, it's just sitting there like a bump on a log. It's it's an online brochure or business card, but it's not a selling tool. It's not telling **Rachel:** this profound story to get people in to say, I have to speak with this person. **Kris:** Totally. And I think you hit the nail on the head. You've really never hired somebody if they don't have a website, because it really tells you indirectly that they don't. care enough to make an investment in their own business and to, they don't care enough to craft a \[00:30:00\] clear and compelling story. So yeah I, think if you want to thrive as a business, You have to have a website. If you want to have a fancy funnel, then add that to your website. You can really promote your lead magnet on your website and capture those emails and market to those people. But it again, that website is the center of your marketing universe. And at this point in time, there is no shortcut or workaround. You just. You need to get the website working for you if you want to grow your business. **Rachel:** I love that. I love that you just said that. I was like, okay, do you think in this conversation that we've had today that we missed anything on storytelling? I know storytelling is such a vast, but really creating a story sets you apart. **Kris:** I don't think so. I think we've covered some really core fundamentals about \[00:31:00\] the importance of a website, the importance of positioning yourself as the guide and not the hero. If you just do that, your website's going to become much more effective and you're going to get to attract the right kinds of clients. The beauty of a well told compelling story is that it attracts. Those right fit clients, but it repels the wrong fit one. So you, don't have to be wasting your time on sales calls with people that aren't the right fit or people that don't have the budget or whatever it is. That it's about, again, it's the, it just always comes back to how can we be most efficient, with your time? How can we create a Business that's profitable and enjoyable and how can you set yourself up with tools that will work for you so you don't have to be doing the heavy lifting all the time. **Rachel:** I love that. I just want to thank \[00:32:00\] you for being here. Can you tell everyone where to find your Instagram, where to find you at your website? **Kris:** Of course. Yeah. The, my website is the center of my marketing universe, so you can go there and check it out. It's red door stories. com R E D O R. S T O R I E S dot com. Everything about me, the work I do, how I help my clients can be found on my website. If you want to check out my Instagram and check out how like I'm leveraging Instagram to tell my story without posting all the time, you can find me on Instagram at red door design with no S. **Rachel:** Awesome. Thank you for being here, God, make sure you follow this woman. She has a plethora of amazing information that I know will help. Kris and I were talking even before we were recording that so many coaches fall into the trap of needing, like thinking they need another \[00:33:00\] qualification instead of really spending that time to work on your story and making that signature story profound. You guys know what your work is now. All right, guys, it was great to be with you. Thanks, Kris. Thank you. Bye, guys. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/red-door-stories-storybrand-story-selling-system-new ### Title: Red Door Stories | StoryBrand Story-Selling System OLD ### Page ID: 9022882 ### Content: # Get your business working *for* you instead of the other way around. ## You became self-employed to have more freedom, but that's probably not how it feels. ## Allow me to introduce you to, *future you*. ## I'm talkin' about confidence and clarity in *every* area of your business. ### Get a Return on Investment ### Stay in Your Zone of Genius ### Know It's Done Right ## How I replaced almost *all* of my marketing with a single story. ### 1\. Craft Signature Story ### 2\. Integrate Across All Platforms ### 3\. Connect With Audience ### 4\. Inspire Them to Take Action ### Your Signature Story is the missing piece that can change everything. #### Use it everywhere to sell *for* you 24/7 ## I understand the second guessing and frustration that comes with trying to write it yourself. ## Here's how I'm different from the rest: ## This is *not* another diy course or group program. ## It's just you and me, *baby* — 1 on 1. ## The Signature Story-Selling System ## You'll *confidently* walk away with everything you need for a simple and profitable business. ### **StoryBrand Website Messaging** ### **Website Design Blueprint** ### **Elevator Pitch One-Liner** ### **Homepage Video Script** ### Signature Process Infographic ### Lead Magnet Strategy ### Testimonials That Sell ### Social Media Profile Copy ### **Website Photo Guidance** ### Irresistible Pricing Strategy ### Discovery Call Mastery ### 30 Days Business Coaching ## The Signature Story-Selling System ### STRATEGY  ### CONTENT ### DESIGN ### COACHING ## Your Financial Investment ## The Wall of ❤️ ## YOU'LL ALSO GET THESE FREE BONUSES: ### Close More Calls with Confidence ### Gather Client Testimonials That Sell ### Take a year off Instagram ### I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! ### More clarity = I'm closing 95% of my sales calls. ## Right now, clients are likely visiting your website... #### (even if you hate selling) #### working 24/7 while you sleep #### that eliminates price resistance ## What's it like to work with Kris? ## No icky selling tactics — guaranteed ### Headache-Free Guarantee ### No Experience Needed Guarantee ### Love your Signature Story Guarantee ## "*I love Kris Jones' work*" ## — Donald Miller, Author of Building a StoryBrand ## **FREE VIDEO & TOOLKIT** ### Write your five soundbites in 10 minutes. #### **Use five simple phrases that sell.** #### **Apply them everywhere to increase revenue.** #### **Explain what you do in seconds.** ## Let me sing you a little ditty for making it all the way down here. **What did I learn working with these companies? The power of Story.** **You fumble your words when asked, "What do you do?".** **You rely solely on referrals which is unpredictable.** You cringe when someone asks for your website address. You get stuck and frustrated when writing for your business. **You've tried outsourcing but it didn't feel aligned with your voice.** You feel insecure on sales calls because you dread "selling". **People's eyes glaze over when you talk about your work.** You can't remember the last time you got a client from your website. And you don't need to be a multi-million dollar company to get there. **People light up and lean in when you tell them what you do.** People "get" you and refer you to others who need you. **You enjoy sales calls 'cause you don't have to sell anymore.** Talking about your work ignites an engaging conversation. **You already have the words you need so writing feel simple.** You don't outsource copy because it's already done. **You proudly send people to your site because it's effective.** Implement a strategy that's so effective and timeless, it guarantees a return. With powerful selling tools working 24/7, you can focus on what you love. Have an industry pro by your side so you have peace of mind it’s working. I distilled my brand's essence, and unique value into a compelling narrative that authentically resonates with my ideal client. I infused my Signature Story into all marketing platforms and materials, enhancing consistency, trust and recognition. I used my Signature Story in emails and podcasts, demonstrating how my story aligns with what my audience wants. I designed my Signature Story to lead to a strategic call to action that inspires leads to become paying clients that are excited to work with me. **I know you want to be a successful entrepreneur who makes good money and stands out for their expertise.** In order to do that, you need to clearly communicate what makes you unique and why people should choose you. **The problem is, you don't have the amount of clients you need to reach your income goals.** This can leave you feeling discouraged — unsure why your efforts aren't getting you results. **I believe that simplicity is the key to a successful business.** **That's why I've spent the last 20 years honing my 'Less-Is-MMore' approach to marketing.** I've made it my mission to help entrepreneurs like you build a profitable business with minimal effort. **Uncover Your Story:** I dive deep to reveal the powerful narrative already within you, setting the foundation for all your marketing. **Authentic Connections:** Leveraging your unique story to create connections, leading to more clients and consistent income growth. **Simplify to Amplify:** We cut through the clutter, focusing only on a strategy that genuinely resonates with your audience, saving you time and money. **Let's get back to the heart of why you started your business.** We'll infuse clarity, simplicity, and the power of your story into everything we do. Ready to simplify your path to profits? [**Book a call with me**](https://krisjones.co/money-making-messaging-call)[.](https://tidycal.com/kris2/money-making-messaging-call) *I made 100k in just 93 days with my Signature Story!* Because you don't need more information. You need actual help. Replace all your marketing with a single story so you can focus on what matters. StoryBrand content that turns your website into your top salesperson. A design plan that makes your graphics, fonts and photos work together perfectly. A powerful one-liner that distills your brand essence and captivates interest immediately. A personalized video script that builds trust and connects with your audience. A custom graphic that shows your unique process and builds instant trust. Build your list and nurture prospects with a lead magnet that actually converts. Powerful testimonials edited for maximum impact, plus a template to gather new ones. Cohesive social profiles that show what you do and why it matters to your followers. Know exactly which photos you need to build trust and look like the expert you are. Psychology-based pricing that makes your services irresistible to ideal clients. Close more clients on calls with a story-driven approach that sells without selling. Get expert guidance to simplify your business and accelerate growth. **For most clients, the investment pays for itself within 30 days.** "I'm closing 95% of my sales calls using my story." "Clients are sold before I get on the phone with them." The proven framework that turns discovery calls into dream clients without feeling salesy. This step-by-step training and system helps you guide authentic conversations that naturally lead to "yes" — even if you hate selling. *"I didn't realize how deeply I've held to the limiting belief "****I suck at sales****" or "****I hate sales****" but your process has given me a walking stick to hold while I'm on the business trail — in fact* ***it's really given me the trail to walk on too.****” —NG* Learn how to get amazing testimonials from your clients that do the selling for you. This simple training shows you how to collect feedback that convinces future clients they need to work with you. It's like having a sales team without paying for one. The 15 social media posts you need to strategically take a year off Instagram. These professionally designed templates turn insta into a sales page that attract clients on autopilot. The right story doesn't just sell—it makes selling unnecessary. From overwhelm to CLARITY. From burnout to PURPOSE. From stuck to FREEDOM This is the best money I've spent since opening my business. I'm more confident with less stress... and crushing it! **Crafting my Story helped me get clear in my own mind about what I do and how I do it. It's boosted my confidence and** **made me feel like an expert.** And quietly clicking away to your competitors. You may not even know it's happening. **In this intimate, private podcast series,** I share all my secrets. You'll learn the **Signature Story-Selling System**™ that's helped hundreds of service providers turn their websites from expensive digital brochures into **client-converting machines**. After 23 years of crafting stories for world-class clients (yes, even Nike, Adidas, and Jeff Bezos!), I discovered something that changed everything: your story isn't just nice to have—it's your most powerful profit tool. **Your story matters. Let's make it unforgettable—and profitable.** **I wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own. If only I had invested in myself sooner. Now that I have the right words, I'm way more confident — and I use those words in everything I do!** **It was so easy for me because Kris did the heavy lifting. And yet, I was engaged in just enough to make sure the copy truly was aligned with my voice.** Let Donald Miller, author of Building a StoryBrand, tell you. **My approach is based in authenticity, connection, trust and timeless storytelling methods that convert — without all the pushy stuff.** Together, we'll walk through my streamlined process that's efficient and enjoyable. I'll be by your side every step of the way. I know exactly how to pull out the story out of your head and heart so you don't have to do any of the heavy lifting. You'll love the Story I craft because it will be aligned with your voice and resonate with your ideal clients. "Getting just one new client more than covered my investment." **"I have more time because my website does the selling for me."** "Working with Kris turned things around for me and my business. **Within the first week I had 3 prospective client calls booked!** (Normally I averaged 3 a month.) **Getting just one new client more than covered my investment.**" "I used to spend hours on sales calls and it was eating up a lot of my precious time.  Kris helped me simplify my Story and immediately, **a client purchased my service without any sales call needed!** I have more time because my website does the selling for me." "I was hesitant because I had recently hired a writer who wrote in a style that just "didn't feel like me". **Kris captured my voice to a T. I'm delighted with the results!**" I'm now charging 6X more for the exact same service. A comprehensive service at this price point is rare. "My plate was full and I didn’t know where to begin. Writing my Story kept falling to the bottom of my to-do list." "When I found Kris, I kept thinking “if this woman can sell me on her website, she can definitely sell my clients on mine”. Kris over delivered on her promise, she made the process so easy and so fast — I found I was enjoying the process. All I really did was answer some questions, (I didn’t even put much thought into how it sounded). Then, I just sat back and let Kris work her magic I was so blown away by how quickly she put all the pieces together. I ended up with a strategic Signature Story that feels aligned and will help my business grow faster. And the time she saved me was worth it's weight in gold. Now I can focus on the work I love while my Signature Story does the heavy lifting of attracting my ideal clients. The Five StoryBrand Soundbites That Bring You More Clients **Nothing sells like a good story. Together, we'll craft a great one.** *A Boutique Design Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* [Privacy Policy](/privacy-policy). [Terms of Service.](/terms-of-service) [Disclaimer](/disclaimer). [StoryBrand Website Design by **Red Door Stories**](/red-door-designs-storybrand-copy-that-sells-copy) Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) 1. **MINE FOR GOLD >** I extract the story from your brain and write it for you. 2. **REFINE YOUR STORY >** We collaborate until it's perfect. 3. **DESIGN YOUR WEBSITE>** Get story-driven design guidance. 4. **SIGN MORE CLIENTS >** Turn on the client-getting faucet 24/7. - StoryBrand Strategy - Client Conversion Strategy - Streamline Client Journey - Lead Magnet Strategy - List Building Strategy - Pricing Strategy - Social Media Strategy - Clear Brand Messaging - Website Content That Sells - Homepage Video Script - StoryBrand One-Liner - Testimonial System - Complete Brand Copy Bible - Website Design Guidance - Signature Process Infographic - Social Media Templates  - Photo Selection Guidance - Headshot Guidance - 30 Days Business Coaching - Growth Strategy & Support - Sales Call Confidence Training - Congruence Across Platforms - Systems Simplification - From Click to Client Audio Book - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-your-coaching-business-new-coach-mindy-shotwell ### Title: StoryBrand Your Coaching Business: Getting Started as a New Coach with Mindy Shotwell ### Page ID: 9036886 ### Content: # StoryBrand Your Coaching Business: Getting Started as a New Coach with Mindy Shotwell StoryBrand Your Coaching Business: Getting Started as a New Coach with Mindy Shotwell Most new coaches don’t struggle because they lack talent. They struggle because they can’t clearly explain what they do. When someone asks, “So…what exactly do you do?” the answer ends up sounding vague, complicated, or a little all over the place. And when your message isn’t clear, it’s really hard for potential clients to understand how you can help them. In the new episode of the *From Click to Client Podcast*, I’m doing something a little different. I’m documenting what it looks like to work through my upcoming book, **StoryBrand Your Coaching Business**, in real time with a new coach. My guest, Mindy Shotwell, is at the very beginning stages of building her coaching business, and she’s letting us all follow along as she works through the process of gaining clarity. **Here’s a little of what we talk about in this episode:** ✨ Why so many new coaches struggle to clearly explain what they do ? How defining the real problem you solve changes your marketing instantly ? A simple way to start clarifying your coaching message using StoryBrand If you’re a coach, consultant, or service provider who feels like your messaging is still a little fuzzy, this episode will give you a helpful starting point. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Kris:** Today's episode is gonna be a little different than what we usually do here on the podcast. This fall, I am releasing my new book called StoryBrand Your Coaching Business, and I'm co-authoring it with Donald Miller, the creator of StoryBrand. And instead of just announcing the book when it comes out, we're gonna do something I've never done before. We're documenting what it looks like to work through the book in real time. My guest today is Mindy Shotwell. She's at the very beginning stages of her coaching journey. She has an early copy of the book, and she's letting us all follow along as she builds her business one chapter at a time. so you're going to hear \[00:01:00\] the real journey as it unfolds, including the questions, the breakthroughs, and the moments when all of it starts to click. If you've ever wondered how someone goes from zero clarity to a coaching business that actually works, this series will give you a front row seat. Mindy, welcome to the show. Let's start with you. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you into coaching. **Mindy:** Hi, I am so happy to be here, Kris. Thank you so much for having me. I'm, I'm literally delighted. So what led me into coaching, a little bit about me. I've been an HR practitioner. The bulk of my career, I started in my early twenties and have, fulfilled a number of roles within human resources. And, I have been fortunate to be a part of trainings, primarily group trainings where I've had some pivotal revelations, fellowship, community support, that have been transformational quite honestly. And they've always stayed with me. And, so in my mind, \[00:02:00\] somewhere deep, I've always thought, gosh, that would be so cool to be part of someone else's transformation. And then day runs into week, into years. And, about two years ago, two and a half years ago, I was coaching, an employee of ours, of mine at the time. And they actually weren't my employee. Just to be clear, you're gonna have to edit that part. Okay. They were an employee of the organization that I was coaching, and literally I saw myself on high. It's this really beautiful spiritual moment I guess. I saw myself on high and it was this voice saying, this is what you're meant to be doing. **Mindy:** And I got off, the call and Tina was home, my wife Tina was home, and I said, oh my gosh, listen to what just happened. And so, you know, she was like, oh, well that's cool. You know, she's not as, in the woo as I am. And so, she listened and then we kind of moved on. \[00:03:00\] Well, I just got inspired from that moment to look into coaching programs and so I became a certified Integral coach as of June of 2024. And honestly thought this will just inform my HR work. You know, I didn't really think anything more than that. But, it's funny how our life's purpose kind of itches and creeps and agitates us in, really subtle ways to where all of a sudden I am. It's just not enough. The work isn't enough. I'm not feeling fulfilled. I feel like I'm, not in my value proposition. I wanna do more. and by this time, I'm, I'm actually facilitating some trainings at work and that feels really good. And I'm building the, some of the content and delivering it. And so, ultimately I made a decision to, leave the organization that I was with, ultimately leave corporate America in a traditional sense and take a leap on my own. Now that. Was definitely something more than I could bite off, quite frankly. \[00:04:00\] And I felt overwhelmed. I had a myriad of emotions that I went through in the transition from leaving regular full-time employment to honestly talking to you about your upcoming book and feeling like, wow, this could really anchor me. This could help me provide some clarity, understand really what it is I wanna do in the world and how I wanna do it, et cetera. So, that's a long story, but basically that's, that's it in a nutshell. **Kris:** I think what's so cool is, number one, you were in an organization that supported this idea that you wanted to dig deeper into coaching, and so you actually got certified as a coach through the organization. Is that right? And then Yes. Through that process that kind of catapulted you into this next phase of, of work and purpose and freedom, right? Like **Kris:** freedom. It's, it's scary to take that leap, but I'm so happy for you. Yeah. **Mindy:** Yeah. I would say that, I was going to go through the coaching program \[00:05:00\] regardless, but then I spoke to my leader at the time and mentioned to her that I was gonna be looking hopefully for, for some support and flexibility on my schedule so that I could. Manage this program at the same time. And she said, oh, we can actually financially help support you too. It's in line with what you do. It'll be in service of the organization, et cetera. So, yeah, very fortunate for that. And I don't have, I can't say anything more other than I feel so liberated. **Mindy:** I feel liberated, not just to, I feel most liberated in the fact that I'm aligned to what I really feel is my passion and my purpose in life. And that is to help people maximize who they are and how they show up in the world by getting to know themselves, becoming most intimate with themselves. **Kris:** Mm. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You already have so much great clarity. So I wanna, before we kinda get into the details. For anybody who's wanting to take the leap out of a full-time paid position and \[00:06:00\] move into being self-employed, whatever it is, coaching, consulting, whatever it is that you bring to the world, this is a great example of the courage that it takes to really take that leap. So I'm curious, what was the scariest or what was the hardest thing about taking that leap? Or did you feel so clear that chapter was over and this chapter was beginning? That it was effortless? **Mindy:** I would say I had clarity that this was the next chapter for me, but I would say it was not effortless. A couple of things. One is self-doubt definitely creeps in. Am I smart enough? Can I do it? What's my differentiator? How am I gonna go about doing it? But even more so than that, and big, yeah, more so, and bigger than that was the fact that it was, you know, I was, for all intents and purposes, the, the breadwinner for our family. And so it wasn't just my decision, it was a decision between Tina and I to, shift into something that \[00:07:00\] was actually gonna bring me more joy and fulfillment. The reckoning of who I am in a corporate capacity where, my value lies, what success externally is supposed to look like, the amount of money you make, the title that you have, all of these things, you know, you're, you're kind of faced with that you're kind of having to, what I experienced is I had to actually grieve the loss of who I was. Mm-hmm. In that previous role in my life so that I could fully and completely embody this new role that actually is aligned to who I am and my essence. So that grieving process took quite some time. **Kris:** I've actually never heard that before. I've talked to so many coaches and I think you just put words to what a lot of people probably go through, but nobody really talks about that, grief part of the process. **Kris:** So tell me, like right now, in this kind of early stage of your coaching business, what does it look like right now? What does the business look like right now? It doesn't have to look good or be clear. Just we wanna get a, I wanna get a clear picture of that so we can understand where you are and Yeah. **Mindy:** Yeah. Well, I've continued to have clients since, graduating from the program, and that remains true today. What I would say is shifting is really sitting down with myself, thanks to you and your rubric that you've created, that will soon be released to the world. And actually I'm in a place of, confidence. I'm in a place of, Getting clarity, getting more clarity on, what, I wanna offer, why it matters, how I differentiate myself. I would say I feel energized in a nutshell. I feel energized. And that doesn't mean that doesn't begin, like being scared or oh, I don't know what I'm doing. Those things also \[00:09:00\] exist equally. But there's a, there's a quiet confidence that's happening for me where I'm like, I've got this. I can do this. And I feel emboldened to post and speak in a way that, is different than what I, how I spoke before, oh I guess I would just say I was a coach, but without confidence. Now I say I'm a life coach, I'm a whole human coach. so I, I have some confidence around. What I say and how I say it. **Mindy:** that's, but, but it's still a work in progress. **Kris:** I think that, always right, always. That's the beauty of being self-employed. The honing never ends. I've been doing this work now over 20 years and I'm continuing to hone and hone every year, and it's just, it's so delightful, especially when you've got the foundation in place. And I think for you in this phase, I think what can be the hardest is I. Not having a roadmap and trying to feel like you're having to figure it out all by \[00:10:00\] yourself. And I think a lot of the coaches I talk to in this phase are on Instagram and they're okay, there's 18 gurus here telling me what I need to do. Who do I believe? Should I do everything? And it's very easy to get into confusion and overwhelm, and I think The book thankfully, is really designed to be a clear and road a clear roadmap with each chapter being one strategy that you implement into your business with all 12 strategies. Giving you the ultimate result of getting more clients, which is if you can't get clients, you can't have a business. Yeahs, it's wonderful that you're at the beginning of this path on chapter one. **Mindy:** Yeah, and I've been here for a beat. I've been on chapter one for a beat, and that is because I'm passionate about getting it. I'm, passionate about having it be aligned to who I really am. It's not about getting it right more right for me. Yeah, **Kris:** totally. Yeah. And chapter one is really \[00:11:00\] so foundational because, and I've mentioned this before, but when you take the time, which you're doing to get really clear on who you wanna serve and what you want to help them achieve, what's the transformation you want them to have? everything else in the book falls down like Domino's because they all connect back to the first chapter. Who do you feel most drawn to? To helping? **Mindy:** Literally human beings. And I know that that's as broad as you can get, but it's the truth. That being said, because of my experience in corporate America, because I've worked so closely with leaders of all levels, leaders of, varying degrees of experience, I feel like this is the, that population is the, is probably the biggest group that I could impact. To scale, scale. And what I mean by that is not only are they gonna be able to show up \[00:12:00\] differently for their teams and their collaborating partners inside the organization, they're able to show up differently in their personal relationships. They're able to show up differently in the way that they meet themselves creatively, in the way that they meet their community, whether they're doing activism or whatever that looks Like. and I, I have, I've always entered roles professionally where I think I'm here to make a difference. I'm here to leave it better than I left. I'm here to leave it better than I came and found it. **Mindy:** Is that right? Mm-hmm. I'm leaving it, you know what I'm saying? **Mindy:** So I guess ultimately that's, it's in service to that. It's in service to helping, folks that are feeling like. Gosh, I got the promotion and now I feel like I'm floundering. Now I feel like imposter syndrome is kicking in. Now I feel like, wow, how do I balance all of my work, which isn't lessening with now I have to lead these people and I wanna be a good leader, but \[00:13:00\] it's easy to put them on the back burner, right? Because, I'm here to help the company make a profit, or I'm here to deliver on something that is bigger than me. And I just think helping folks, I guess tap into their intelligence centers that we all have within ourselves and not just function from up here, will only help them serve all the, in all the ways that they show up in life. **Kris:** Mm. Two things that you shared that I just wanna echo. One, the ripple effect of the work that you're doing, right? When you help leaders, this kind of clarity is really cool, but you're helping them in multiple ways. But that ripple effect to their team and to the organization is, is so cool. Number two, people in leadership positions have usually have budgets to hire a coach and hopefully understand the value of that or their, organization is supporting that relationship. So just strategically, that's a really great audience. \[00:14:00\] And then the third thing, I'm adding a third here, is really that in this day and age, most leaders get into that position through. Brute force masculine energy and really doing drive drive. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but they reach a point where they're like, okay, number one, this isn't sustainable. Number two, it doesn't feel good. Number three, I'm in my head all the time and I don't even know how to connect to my body or my heart because the disconnection has been there for so Long. **Mindy:** Yeah. And it's so dimmed. I, a lot of my clients, when they express some of the feelings that they're having and I ask them where they feel it in their body, they cannot name it. They can't name it because they're in survival mode. That's what I call it. They're, just. They're surviving. And not to say that they're not doing well in, in regards in certain regards, but, they're not \[00:15:00\] thriving, they're surviving. **Mindy:** And everyone, we make an impression whether we mean to or not. And so how we are as a whole impacts how we show up for people. And we've all had, if an, if anyone's had any experience in the workforce, we've all had a leader that's left a little bit to be desired. And it can really impact and create some scarring, quite frankly, if the person isn't equipped to actually manage humans with humanity. Yeah, I think there's a big, there's a big calling and a big need, **Kris:** I'm curious when you talk about this idea of living in your head, and believe me, I can relate to this, like, I, I've been an entrepreneur a long time. I've, I'm very driven. I'm very much like, I like to get things accomplished and I think that me learning how to get back into my body and even tuning into that is a work in \[00:16:00\] progress for sure. I'm curious about how, did you have you always been a head, heart kind of person or did you, through coaching or through another experience, figure out how to do what you're teaching your coaches to do, **Mindy:** Yeah. I would say that I have been a receptor. Probably the bulk of my life without even realizing it. And so there's always been things I've seen, things I've read, experiences that I've had that take resonance, and I don't necessarily realize the weight of them in the moment. That's part of what, having some, having your years on this planet, grow in number. That's part of the beauty of that, right? Is that you, you have some wisdom that that happens, some reflection and some intentional reflection where you're just like, oh, that's, now I'm getting a, like, I'm getting the, the trail of breadcrumbs kind of thing. \[00:17:00\] So I would say that I, have been the benefactor of some great trainings I've had. I have wonderful women and men in my life who I admire, who, I feel are. Conscientious and mindful of how they show up in the world. And they're all kind of stewarding me. And certainly the coaching program I went through was transformational. I worked for an organization that had a a, you had to be elected to go through it, but they had a heart of leadership program that hands down was probably, and I, I took that when I was probably 25, 26 years old and it was a game changer. And, No, I'm learning. I'm like you, I'm learning. I've always had the mantra of I'm a whip, I'm a whip, I'm a work in progress. I've always had that mantra. And it's true. You don't ever wanna get stagnant, right? That's just, this is what life is about, is that you're experiencing, the highs and lows. It's not in the highs that we're learning, it's in the lows. It's in the challenges where we were faced with our \[00:18:00\] resiliency and our grief and our traumas and our triggers and, yeah. So I think if we have our eyes and our heart open, our senses, all of our senses, and we have more than five, but if we have all of our senses open and we're mindful about trying to keep them open, then we're going to take all the pick up, all these nuggets that are around us. **Kris:** All right. Let's shift gears a little bit. What, up until now, like prior to reading chapter one. How have you been describing what you do when people ask, like if you're at a coffee shop or at a party and someone says, Hey, what do you do? **Mindy:** You know, it's interesting because I actually would say, well, I'm not, I'm just taking some time right now. Like I didn't actually have an answer and I wouldn't even embody and own I am a coach. I wouldn't even own I'm a coach. IW Yeah. Because I think I was still in transition, and then I realized, wow, I actually this is, a space I wanna be in and grow in. And then you and I had a conversation and all of a sudden I felt like, \[00:19:00\] oh, I have someone to show me the way. I have someone who's going to literally, 'cause sometimes we just need to be told what to do. **Mindy:** Yeah. And so I was just like, literally like in relief that. Kris is gonna show me and tell me what to do and then I can follow the instructions and I'm gonna learn and have ahas and revelations along the way and gain, gain the clarity that I need. And so, I definitely feel like I'm on that road and it feels really good. **Kris:** Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad. So you have now just finished chapter one of StoryBrand your coaching business. And I wanna hear what's your honest reaction after reading it? **Mindy:** I actually felt, and I think I even sent you a note, I actually felt some exhilaration, I think is probably the best word. I felt exhilarated because I learn, I was learning about myself, I was learning about my brand, I was learning about my ideal \[00:20:00\] client. I was learning about. My ethos and my values that have to be the through line of anything that I do. So yeah. I would say I felt exhilarated. Yeah. And, and I feel like the language is very plain. **Mindy:** It's not, it's not, it's not language that isn't accessible. So I, I think it's, it's not like it's a brow furrowed read. **Kris:** Right. It's, it's not like a Eckert Toley, the Power of Now type of book. **Kris:** I, but I can only read like one page at a time, maybe even half a page. It's so dense. Mm-hmm. yeah, I think with coaches part of the reason I wrote the book is because coaches, number one. Are the ones changing the world literally. And like I'm a believer in therapy for sure. I think there's a time and place for it, but I think many people go to therapy and just kind of marinate in the past. And sometimes you need to do that to \[00:21:00\] process emotions and, and learn how to regulate. But I love working with coaches because it's about, okay, where are you now and where do you wanna be and how are we gonna get there? You know, like it feels like the best coaches I know are like, my job is not to make you dependent on me to come back here every week for 10 years, right? **Mindy:** 100%. I'm here to help you attain the tools, many of which are lie within yourself. **Mindy:** So that you can carry on and thrive and, and be well. Yeah. **Kris:** And so like for you and the coaches that I work with, you became a coach because you wanted to coach people and work with clients and help people. You did not become a coach to become a part-time marketer. And I think so many coaches get into this not realizing, oh my gosh, I can't just be a coach. Like I have to actually become a part-time marketer. Or they find themself \[00:22:00\] in that position. They're coaching full-time or part-time, and then half of the time they're trying to drum up clients doing all the admin running their business. And that is not the fun part. And my whole goal is to, through the book, really set you up with. Strategies and a foundation that works on autopilot. I want you to have tools and machines that are working for you so you can get fill your client roster, but really get back to the work that you're here on the planet earth to do. And so anyway, I'm so glad that you felt exhilarated and, got some clarity. What was one part of the chapter that stood out to you the most? **Mindy:** I would say what really was like, smacked me in my face and was so like that's, it was the part in the book that you say, in the chapter rather that you say, this guy basically says, look at \[00:23:00\] the window. You know, has the business card that says, look at the window next to you. Is it dirty? Call me and I'll clean it. I think that just was really, it really crystallized what you were trying to get after having us land on for ourselves and our own business. So that was a big like, wow, brilliant, brilliant. And I have actually paid that forward. Mm. You know, when I talk about your book, I've pay, I'm paying that forward. I'm like, this is so brilliant. And they're like, wow, that really is brilliant. And you don't forget it. You don't forget it. Which is what your point is, is like Mindy, have something that's easy to say and resonant for people that when they hear it, they're gonna be like, oh, I know I don't have to decipher it and she's gonna be who I think of when I need, I have this X, Y, Z problem. So there's that. I would say too, what I thought was helpful is you did break down or you do break down different types of coaches and it gave, give examples of. What their clarity statements could be, what their peace statements could be. The peace framework also is \[00:24:00\] brilliant. Yeah I just think the whole first chapter, which, like you said, it's the heavy lift, it's the heavy lifting of probably the book as you mentioned. **Kris:** Yeah. I think when Donald and I were mapping out the book, one of the big things that came up is like, how is this book gonna be different? And I was determined, and he was, he and I both, were really on board with coaches need examples. There are all kinds of different coaches, life coaches, business coaches, wellness coaches, and how do we take this information? If you've read Building a StoryBrand. It's a, wide net, right? You could be a plumber, you could be, you could sell a knife sharpener. And so this book is really how do we apply the framework for coaches, but within the coaching realm, there are so many different types of coaches and I always find examples are the best way to learn. And so we have like packed this book with real world examples so you can actually find the \[00:25:00\] type of coach that you are and read an example of what it looks like in the real world. **Mindy:** Yeah, I think tying story to a point that you're trying to get across is brilliant because stories resonate for people for sure. And so you, you do that a lot in chapter one, which is valuable. **Kris:** Yeah. So one of the big things that we do at the beginning of the book that Mindy has navigated through is crafting the piece soundbites. And if you're not familiar with the piece, soundbites, this is something Donald Miller talks about a lot on YouTube, and you can Google it and dig in a little bit deeper. But the idea here is that before you start teaching a potential client, I think as coaches, we just wanna, we wanna help people, we wanna teach them, we wanna show them all the things that we know so they can learn it too. But what happens is they don't know us at all, right? And so we start teaching \[00:26:00\] prematurely. And it's I, liken it a lot to like, when you meet somebody for coffee for the very first time, you don't sit down and go, Hey, here's what I do and here's all the ways I can help you. First, you really take the time to connect, and we talk a lot about the peace soundbites in the book. As another metaphor here, a house, if your business is a house or your marketing machine is the house on the on. Let me think of the best way to describe this. So the first thing you encounter when you come to a house is a handful of front steps that lead you up to the porch. The front steps are the five sound bites. So think of them as five steps that you're inviting a potential client to walk up to. When people first encounter you, they don't wanna learn from you. They just, we just need to get their attention. Half the battle, step one of marketing is capturing people's attention and the five \[00:27:00\] soundbites are the way to capture attention. So it's definitely not a time to teach, it's definitely not a time to ask for money or ask for someone to join your program. We are just capturing their attention and helping them identify, am I the right person that they're talking to? If they're your piece soundbites are not gonna gain the attention of somebody that is not struggling with a problem that you solve. So let's talk about your piece soundbites, and before we do, I'll walk through them. The idea, the reason they're called the peace soundbites is because it, in every story, whether it's a movie, a book, I don't care, every story you've ever heard begins with a hero that's initially at peace and then they fall into a hole, meaning they get stuck in a problem. And so the piece is really an acronym that we use. \[00:28:00\] It starts with the problem. That's your first soundbite. And then the second soundbite is empathy. And then the third soundbite is the answer. What is the answer to the problem? What is your way of solving that problem? What's your answer to that problem? P-E-A-C-E, did I cover all of them? C is change. Who does that person your ideal client become after working? With you? What's that transformation in their identity, not the benefits of it, but their transformation in identity to someone that worries about money all the time to someone who's good with money, right? That's a transformation of an identity. And then the, the final E in piece is what's the end result? What is the vision that, what's the vision of their future? What's their life like after this problem has been solved? So are they gonna wake up with more energy? Are they gonna, have \[00:29:00\] more money in the bank? Are they gonna finally be at their ideal weight? Whatever it is, like, we wanna hone in on, on really, the vision of their life. After they have solved this problem. So let's, go through a few of your sound bites and where are you at with them. I know you're still working through them, but I think it'll be fun for everybody to hear, hear yours. **Mindy:** Yeah. So yes, there's been several iterations. probably will still be some iterations to come, but where I've landed so far for pe problem, there's tension between what you know, what you feel and what your body is holding. Now you're I have a feeling you're gonna be like but you're, not gonna wanna have to say this, but I'm looking at it from a perspective of one-on-one coaching as well as corporate coaching. And so my interest is to have my piece basically embody both ultimately uhhuh, not to say that there can't be some \[00:30:00\] nuance. **Kris:** I, yeah, I think we should pick one. 'cause they're, these are different audiences and it is okay to have two sets of soundbites for each client. Otherwise you end up trying to speak to, trying to tr to straddle two different things and then things become a little bit more vague. So we talked earlier a little bit about how, you know, the corporate people, the leaders have the budgets I have, they have better budgets. It's not coming out of their personal bank account. So I'd love to hone in on that audience. I always like to start with the one that's actually gonna be the most lucrative for you. **Mindy:** Yeah, for sure. So let me just, yeah, I would say that is, that's what I have. Right now, that's where I've landed. But if it's specific to corporate, then I think that could be tightened up for sure. Okay. To state more specifically, yeah, I have some other \[00:31:00\] iterations. **Kris:** If you were on a phone, an imaginary Zoom call with a leader that wanted to work with you, what would they be complaining to you about? **Mindy:** Oh,yeah. Basically that their workload hasn't changed, but now they're leading a team, that maybe they're a te a technical person and leading a team is the only way to grow both in responsibility and financially within the organization. **Mindy:** that they have known concerns on their team with performance, for example, but they feel. It's easy to evade those concerns, ignore the conversation. They couch it as being empathetic, you know, I'm just buying them more time when really it's a disservice to the employee. yeah, I would say just purely from a manager lens, those are a lot of the things that I've heard. **Kris:** So if you were to fill in the blank with let's say you're talking to someone else, my clients are \[00:32:00\] leaders and as leaders they're struggling with, **Mindy:** they're struggling with, effectively leading, ultimately. **Kris:** A fun way to look under the hood with this is if you think of effective leading, what's the opposite of effective leading? Obviously ineffective leading, but what does ineffective leading actually translate to in the nuts and bolts of it? **Mindy:** They're avoiding difficult conversations as an example. **Kris:** Okay. And is it affecting their ability to get promoted? Is it affect, are they feeling overwhelmed? Are they burning out? Are they **Kris:** Yeah. Okay. Okay, cool. So those nuggets that we just talked about, they're avoiding difficult conversations with their team members. They're overwhelmed, they're burned out because. They have too much on their plate, or maybe they don't have too much on their plate, but they literally \[00:33:00\] don't have the tools in their toolbox to, to solve these Problems. **Mindy:** it's ultimately they're, dysregulated themselves and so they can't actually lead cohesively a team in a healthy way because they themselves are scattered and disjointed. **Kris:** And do they realize that? Do they, in their mind know I'm scattered and disjointed internally and that's Yes. Not, that's not helping me, or that's keeping me from being able to lead effectively? **Kris:** Okay. That's your nugget right there. And you feel disconnected and scattered inside and it's affecting your ability to. Get your team aligned and to reach the goals that you have. **Kris:** Yeah. And you, yeah, you can continue to massage that, but I feel like that's the nut underneath everything \[00:34:00\] else. We real, we always wanna ask when they're waking, when they wake up at 2:00 AM or 3:00 AM in the morning, what's going through their mind. dread and panic. Okay. Write that down. Dread and panic. Yeah. **Mindy:** So I would love to, and I know, I know it's probably good to just go through 'em one at a time, but I was thinking, would it be helpful for me to just read what I had for the full piece? **Mindy:** I, I think it would be interesting to hear you say where you feel like, oh, yeah, those are good nuggets or not. **Mindy:** Okay. So I'll just go with the, P that I currently have. Okay. So there's tension between what you know, what you feel and what your body is holding. I get it. But really quick, I just wanna share with the listeners, **Kris:** Notice that your brain doesn't actually concretely understand what that means. Like it's, I think you're, you're accurate with what you're saying, but as a \[00:35:00\] listener, I can't wrap my brain around what that looks like. Where as if, where, if you said you wake up at two p 2:00 AM in a panic because you don't have the tools that your team needs in order to reach the goals. Again, riff on that, but we need, to actually safety the obvious. We need something concrete Yeah. That our brains can grab onto. **Kris:** And as coaches, we get what I call the curse of knowledge. And just like you've been through extensive coaching training, you've gotten really comfortable with some of the language that happens within a coaching environment that people outside or people that are not coaches don't really know really what that means. **Kris:** so we, we always wanna, and this is why I wrote the book the way that I did, like **Kris:** It's in plain \[00:36:00\] English that anybody Right. Can understand No, no industry lingo and. It's so common because you've forgotten what it's like to not know what you know. That's the curse of knowledge. Yeah. And so we have to rewind. And that's the power of having a thought partner to kind of call you out on, hey, that term, I know you get that term, but the general population doesn't. Or the leaders that you're talking to don't. So, okay, let's keep going. **Mindy:** Okay. So for e empathy mm-hmm. I get it. You adapted, you achieved, you became dependable. **Kris:** That's really good. It's too long, but it's really good. So you adapted, you became dependable. And what was the third one? **Mindy:** you adapted. You achieved, you became dependable. So again, it's like speaking to, you know, we're doing, \[00:37:00\] you're doing, we're showing up in all the ways that society thinks we should show up, but yet we've lost ourselves in the process. **Kris:** Plain English. I love it. Just literally what you just said right now. Yeah. **Kris:** Repeat that one more time. That last thing that you just said. **Mindy:** Yeah. Like you've shown up in the way that society deems successful. Right. But you've lost yourself in the process. **Kris:** Done. Done and, and done. I get it. Then that statement. **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. Empathy can be just so simple. It can be as simple as I get it, or I, know how this feels. And, what you shared too is just straight from the heart. Right? True leaders. True. true, guides. Don't need to like brag or boast. They really just need to lead with empathy. And so that's the, that's why this soundbite is, so very important. Okay. Okay. **Mindy:** for answer \[00:38:00\] a, I coach the whole human integrating head, heart, and body. So clarity is not just intellectual, but embodied. Really good. Too long. Our brains like when we have a lot of commas and we have a lot of ands, like our brains can only take in so much at any given time. So keep. This sentence is short and concise. If you have three, a series of three commas, we like to do that because we're like, we do so much like we, it's hard to limit. But what I want you to remember is that these are quick soundbites that just are gonna get people's attention. You don't have to tell the full story in your sound bites in order to get their attention. We can't overload them with information. Think of it like when you're on the freeway and you get off on a, or you go on an on ramp, right? You get off the freeway and you get on an on ramp. Your soundbite allows them to on ramp into their, into your world. Once they're in your \[00:39:00\] world, you can talk. You can talk a lot more, right? Yeah. So back to that house metaphor. These are the front steps that are getting people's attention. So you can welcome them onto your front porch. Once they're on the front porch, we can dig in a little bit better. They're engaged. They're like, okay, I'm in. You've got my attention. I'm in. Yeah. Now I wanna learn more from you, and then you can go deeper into these, things. But, **Mindy:** so maybe my answer is, reconnect to your internal compass and develop self trust. Yeah, Okay. and it could even be, if you wanna weave in, I offer one-on-one coaching that realigns you with your internal compass. And allows you to get back on your path or allows you to realign with your purpose or, yeah. **Mindy:** Live from internal alignment rather than reaction. **Kris:** So the change is really about their identity. And the way to hone in on this is how would people describe them if they weren't in the room? Spitballing here, but be an aligned leader who makes an impact or, be an aligned leader who, leads with confidence, be somebody who leads with confidence. be a leader who's in, who's fully in alignment with. Yourself and in tune with your team. There's all kinds of ways to do it, but the question here is how would they want, how would they want people to, describe them if they weren't in the room? **Mindy:** I would, my, what I suspect is they would want to be described as a bal a leader that balances head and heart. And \[00:41:00\] doesn't, re doesn't. so head and heart, and I think **Kris:** no more ands, no more comments, no more. I know. Not in the soundbites you got room for s on the front porch. **Kris:** and heart. Be, be, be someone who leads with your head and heart. Okay. Often the aspirational identity is be someone who, or be a leader who, be, a leader who's aligned with your head and heart, or be someone who leads with your head and your heart. Okay. That's my, that's always, that's been my that to me is hr. **Mindy:** HR is a balance of head and heart. It's not all just functioning up here. Navigate tension, performance and accountability without losing humanity. Strengthening trust, clarity and results. **Kris:** A lot of commas. And this is so common. I mean, \[00:42:00\] really, we just, **Mindy:** this is actually really good for the listeners because they are seeing my, in, in getting this. And **Kris:** they're, they're gonna be doing the same thing. I mean, they're, so, so often we talk with people who have already done this kind of, what I call the messy middle work, but it's done in private, and you are here with the courage and vulnerability and openness to like, to show us the process of it. And it isn't, it isn't, always a direct line. No. Okay. Read it one more time. **Mindy:** navigate tension, performance and accountability without losing humanity. **Mindy:** Oh, so what if it's navigate tension, strengthen trust, and strengthen trust to lead with clarity and results Really it could be, rally your team around your \[00:43:00\] vision, or have a team that's fully engaged and, and reach your goals with ease and confidence. Like we, what we wanna do is like this hero that we're talking to. Your clients are the hero. You are the guide. What we wanna do is. Help them climb the mountain throwing in another metaphor because I love them. And so you are like the trail guide, helping them navigate the path to the peak of Mount Everest. And one of the most important things that you can do is, remind them of what's possible. So we really want to inspire them in this soundbite and show them what's possible for their life after all of this work is done, after they're so well equipped. And so when you point up to the peak of that mountain, what does the peak of that mountain actually look like? **Mindy:** Yeah, so if I go back to feeling scattered and with dread at 2:00 AM which is \[00:44:00\] our problem, **Mindy:** I feel and then we talked about balancing head and heart. So **Kris:** have the tools and confidence to, lead your team or to help your team reach the goals? **Mindy:** Say that again. Have the tools and confidence **Kris:** have the confi, have the tools and the confidence to lead your team with ease. Mm-hmm. Or to lead your team. Or to help your team reach, reach your goals. **Kris:** We like it could even be the word effective. Keeps popping up. Lead your team. Effectively so they can reach their goals, so you can all reach your goals. What is the peak of the mountain? What is the wonderful, \[00:45:00\] thing that's possible for them once they solve this problem? Have the tools and confidence to effectively lead your team to reach their goals. **Kris:** okay. After going through this chapter, what has shifted for you around the way you think about this, your message as a coach? **Mindy:** Well, I, I do feel like it's, it's gaining me some clarity for sure. And I, you know, because of doing all the different iterations, I feel like I'm not just like grabbing the first thing that kind of Yeah, that sounds good. Like I'm wanting it to be resonant. I think one of the things that I am challenged by is I, don't want to, I guess I wanna be authentic to who and how, who I am and how I coach. And I don't want there to be any illusions around that. And so I'm interested in organizations \[00:46:00\] that actually care about their culture and not care about their culture because it just impacts the bottom line. **Mindy:** But they actually have care and concern for their talent. And that they wanna make investment. In their talent Through coaching and facilitation leadership development. **Mindy:** to bring meaningful change. And that comes from addressing the whole self. It's not through how to work harder or more efficient with your time or make, more widgets faster, et cetera, et cetera. **Mindy:** I guess I, I, I just want that to, and to your point, it's not like I have to state that in, in the peace framework. Right. I can say it once they're on the porch and they're ready to learn more, so. **Mindy:** I, I guess that's the thing. It's like, okay, Mindy, it's okay to bring that in. Bring in, **Kris:** Totally. Totally. And really people at this phase of the soundbites, they wanna know the what, not the the what, not the how The what, not the \[00:47:00\] how can be uncovered once they're on the porch. And I think, that's really important information and some of what you just shared could be woven in to that end result soundbite. We'll, keep working on it. Yes. But this has been such a joy getting to roll up our sleeves and get into this work together. And yeah, as we wrap up, is there anything else that, that you wanna share? **Mindy:** I would just say this is, if this is well worth the time and the energy to do, and I feel that your book is intuitive, the framework makes sense. It gets the person. To go internal of like, well, what is it that's important to me and what do I wanna say and why does it matter? And so all of these important building blocks that build the foundation, as you said. So, I'm excited for the book release. I think it's really gonna help a lot of people and, listen, that's what we're both in the business for, is we, wanna help people, in different ways, but ultimately we wanna help people. So I'm really excited and I think, yeah. \[00:48:00\] I know I have, I've always joked with you like you have the Midas touch, and I think that's carrying through even with this new book that you've, you're gonna, produce. So anyway, **Kris:** yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. I think one of the, the main things I just wanna wrap up with is this idea of the most important thing you can do as a coach is to become known for solving a problem. And this goes back to the window washer with the business card that said, look at the nearest window. If it's dirty, call me. **Kris:** And how can we apply that level of simplicity to our coaching business? If you are struggling with this, then joining my coaching program or working with me as a coach will solve that problem. And, my coaching is the solution to that problem. Essentially those two things fit together and so anyway, I just wanted to say thank you and to our thank you, Kris, to our listeners, we are going to continue this \[00:49:00\] journey chapter by chapter, so you're gonna get to follow along **Kris:** Alright, Mindy, thank you again for being here today. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/five-storybrand-website-examples-that-get-clients ### Title: Five Real StoryBrand Website Examples That Get Clients ### Page ID: 9120613 ### Content: # Five Real StoryBrand Website Examples That Get Clients (2026) Five Real StoryBrand Website Examples That Get Clients Your website might be the reason clients aren't reaching out. Not because it looks bad. Not because your offer isn't good. But because **the two most important sections of your homepage aren't doing what they need to do fast enough.** Most visitors decide whether to stay or leave in about five seconds. If your hero section doesn't immediately signal "you're in the right place,"... they're gone before they ever read what you actually offer. In the new episode of the *From Click to Client Podcast*, I share five real client wireframes and walk through them live. This is part one of a three-part series, and we're starting with the hero section and the problem section because these two sections are the gatekeepers of your entire website. ✨ Why your **hero section needs to work like a freeway billboard** ? The **three most common hero section mistakes** coaches, consultants and service providers make. ? Why knowing the difference between an **external problem and an internal problem** makes your marketing 10x more effective. If your homepage is getting visitors but not converting them, there's a good chance the fix is in this episode. **Speaker:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story.Hey there. Today I'm gonna pull up five real client wire frames and walk you through. Through them live. I'm gonna walk through what's working, what's not, and mistakes that most people are making, and how to fix them. These are actual StoryBrand websites I built for real clients, I think it's much easier to learn by looking at real world examples rather than just talking about it. So if you're listening as a podcast, don't worry.I'm gonna narrate everything that I'm looking at so you can get the full picture without needing to watch. And if you're on YouTube, you're gonna see the wire frames as I scroll through them. This is part one of a three part series, and today we're gonna \[00:01:00\] dig into what I believe are the two most important sections of your website. The hero section. That's the very top of your website, and that's. First thing anyone sees, it's above the fold, meaning nobody has to scroll down to read it. And then we're also gonna cover the problem section, which goes right below it, and here's why these two sections matter more than anything else on your site. If you get them right, you buy time. Your visitor thinks this is for me, and then they keep reading, and the more they read, the more likely they are to reach out and wanna work with you, or at least book a call with you. If you get these two sections wrong, the visitor will literally bail. They will leave, they're gone, and you'll never even know that they were there in the first place. So every story you've ever heard, every book you've ever read, every movie you've ev ever been to, it always begins with a hero in a hole. When I \[00:02:00\] say a hero's in a hole, I mean your hero is stuck in a hole, they've fallen into a hole. They have a problem that they don't know how to solve themselves. And your website needs to prove within just five seconds that you know who your hero is and you really understand the hole that they're in. So let's get into it. Alright. What is the hero section and what is it supposed to do? The hero section is at the very top of your homepage. It's what your visitor sees before they do any scrolling. It's sometimes called above the fold because it's prime real estate. it's your very first impression. So we really wanna make it count. I actually like to call this part of your website, the billboard section of your page, because it acts just like a billboard that you would see on a freeway. So imagine you are on a freeway right now and you're driving. 85 miles an hour, and you're driving by a billboard, there's a billboard on the \[00:03:00\] side of the freeway. If that billboard is too wordy, is too poetic, is too nuanced, is too complicated, you're not gonna be able to read anything on that billboard. You're gonna just drive right by. Your brain is literally gonna shut down and say, Nope, that's too dangerous. We have to focus on. But if the billboard has a handful of words, they're really clear and they're meaningful, then your brain will be open to digesting it. And because people are only at at your billboard section of your website for five-ish seconds, you've got to be that simple. one of the things I like to, to challenge my clients with is, could a caveman come to your website and is it so simple and clear that a caveman could grunt what you do to another caveman? And they both nod in agreement. Yep, we get it. So that's how simple we wanna be. Your billboard section \[00:04:00\] or your hero section or your header section, they're all the same thing. They're all that first section on your, your homepage. It's got one job and that's to, to answer the questions. What do you do? How's it gonna make my life better? And what do you want me to do next? So it's gotta do a lot of heavy, heavy lifting with very few words, and that's the challenge. The visitor coming to your website. All they wanna know is, am I in the right place? Is this the right website for me? And if you don't communicate those things within about five seconds, they're probably gonna gonna bail. So we've got one shot, we wanna get it right, and this is why your hero section matters so much. So, as I mentioned, I'm gonna get into some real examples, but before we do, I wanna answer this question, which is, what is the most common mistake coaches make in the hero section? So the most common thing I see is a coach who \[00:05:00\] opens his or her website by introducing herself, something like, hi, I'm Amy. I'm a certified life coach based in North Carolina, and I'm so passionate about helping women step into their power. And I wanna be really gentle here because Amy probably worked really hard on that website and she's proud of it, and she feels personal and warm. Like there's nothing wrong with showing up, being warm and welcoming and personal, but. The truth is there is a problem with this because the opening is entirely about Amy and the visitor doesn't come to Amy's website to learn about Amy. They actually come because they have a problem and they're hoping that Amy can help them. In StoryBrand, Donald Miller teaches that your client is the hero of the story, not you. So I want you to think of yourself as the guide.You are guide. You are Yoda. You are not Luke. Your hero is Luke \[00:06:00\] Skywalker. You are Yoda. the moment you open with, hi, I'm Amy. You've just made yourself the hero. And your visitor, who is the actual hero, who we really wanna position as the hero, you've just kicked them out of the narrative completely. And they feel that even if they can't consciously name it, they can feel that they can't see themselves in your story, and so they're gonna leave. The second mistake that I see a lot is. Really a high cognitive load message. This just means that the brain has to work too hard to figure out what it is you do, how it's gonna make their life better, and what do you want them to do next. So this can look like too many words, too much to process, too fast, industry lingo. It happens so often. I, see it all the time, a coach will have a headline that reads something like. Helping ambitious, purpose-driven women who are ready to break through their limiting beliefs, unlock their true potential, and create a life \[00:07:00\] filled with joy, meaning, freedom, and fulfillment on their own terms. So say that out loud. By the time you get to the end of it, you've forgotten how it even started. Commas are not your friend in the header section. We wanna avoid commas. We wanna avoid the word. And or too many ands. Long sentences With lists and commas and qualifiers,They exhaust the brain before it can connect with the message. And so again, the brain shuts off. In StoryBrand, we talk about cognitive load The higher the cognitive load of your message, the less likely someone is to engage with it. A confused mind always says no. A confused mind will always click away from your website without taking any action, without booking that call with you. And the irony is those wordy headlines almost always come from coaches who care so deeply. They want to include everyone. They do so much for their clients and they don't \[00:08:00\] wanna leave anyone out, and they really wanna communicate like all the wonderful things that their clients are gonna get through working with them. But when you try and say too much, nothing ends up landing. The hero mistake number three, vague and flowery language. This is one of the most subtle mistakes because it actually sounds good. It sounds inspiring. Things like reach your full potential, live your best life. Step into who you are meant to be. It's beautiful. It's poetic, it's optimistic, but it's really meaningless to someone who is really suffering. Because here's the thing, your visitor is not in a poetic mood when they land on your website. They're tired. They're probably frustrated. They've probably tried many things that haven't worked. They're a little bit cautious and so vague, flowery language doesn't really meet them where they are. It kind of floats above them and feels unattainable and kind of squishy and fuzzy. It's just not something that their \[00:09:00\] brain can hold onto, so like reach your fullest potential. A headline like that could describe a fitness coach, a business coach, a therapist, a meditation app, or a vitamin company. It's just too broad and too vague, and It describes no one specifically, so it really resonates with no one deeply. the antidote to flowery language is specific words that create specific results, Let me show you what I mean. Okay, now I'm gonna walk you through a handful of real life examples of coaching websites and service provider websites that actually work. So all the three mistakes I just talked about, these websites are actually done, right. These header sections are. Nailing it. So we're gonna start with Krista, who is a coach and she works with with widows. Her headline is, I Help Widows Truly Love life Again. And then the subhead tells \[00:10:00\] exactly what she does. Evidence-based grief, support and coaching to transition from surviving to thriving. Just a handful of words that. Say really clearly that she is a coach and she offers grief, grief support to help widows transition from surviving to thriving. The next example is a parenting coach. This is a client named Jill, and her headline is, I help parents handle challenging behavior with calm and clarity. And then the subhead is break free from daily battles and rediscover the joy of parenting. Now notice she is telling the visitor what she does, how it's gonna make their life better and what she wants them to do next. The call to action should always be included in that header section because we wanna tell them what we want them to do. So Jilly's call to action is book your family piece planning call. notice we've integrated a \[00:11:00\] benefit into that. That button so people know if they book a call, they're actually gonna experience a benefit from the call, whether they work with Jill or not. I'm gonna go back to Krista's Krista's main call to action. For her widow clients is discover your grief stage assessment. When we implemented this call to action, she literally doubled her assessment signups overnight. Now the next example I'm gonna walk you through is Andrea. Andrea is a coach for women who have, who are in the thick of dealing with infidelity. For Andrea's example, we've got a very clear headline. Navigate the Pain of Infidelity and Emerge stronger than Ever. Coaching for individuals and couples ready to face the truth, reclaim your power, and build something beautiful. And then her call to action is book a. Find your path forward strategy call. \[00:12:00\] So again, what do you do? How's it gonna make my life better and what do you want me to do next? These headlines are all about the hero. They are not about the coach themselves. They are not about the guide. We have time to get into that later, like as we've built trust and allowed the visitor to really. Buy into what you do and know they're in the right place. Later on in the page, we can talk about you as the coach or the service provider, but right up top, we wanna only talk about our hero. So another client I wanna feature today is. Molly. Molly has a group membership for her clients and her headline is, master every Area of Your Life with grace and ease. Join a community of ambitious women who are ready to find balance in their success, feel peace inside and create a life they actually enjoy. So we do have a, a few commas in there, but the words are just so simple \[00:13:00\] that my brain can actually. Track and remember. And then finally we have my client, Megan, who is a, a coach as well for working moms. And her headline is, stop Running On Empty and Start Living a Life You Love. Coaching for ambitious working moms ready to trade overwhelm for peace. So notice how clear that is. Okay, so you've got your hero section dialed in. Now we're gonna delve into the problem section and. What I wanna answer here is why does this section matter so much? It is literally one of the most important things that you do on your website. If the hero section answers, am I in the right place? The problem section answers, does this person actually understand what I'm going through? This is the moment your visitor goes from curious to fully engaged because in the problem section we open up a story loop and when we open up a story loop, our brains can't \[00:14:00\] help but fully engage and we will not disengage until we know that loop has been closed. It's just a story psychology. So here's the StoryBrand principle that drives this. Every great story begins with a hero who has a problem they don't know how to solve on their own. Your visitor is that hero and they showed up on your website because they're literally in a hole and they need you to help them get out of the hole. Your job in the problem section is to describe that whole so accurately that they feel understood before you've offered them a single solution. Because here's what most people don't realize. People don't buy solutions. They buy the feeling of being understood, and when they feel like you get them. They automatically think that you're of course the best one to solve it for them. So there's a lot of psychology that goes on in this section that is incredibly powerful. \[00:15:00\] so what do most coaches get wrong on the problem section?The most common mistake I see is naming only the external problem, and then stopping there.A coach will write something like, are you struggling to grow your business? And yes, technically that is a problem and, but it's an external problem, meaning that's something that somebody could identify on the outside. struggling to grow your business, describes really. Half of the internet, so it's very broad and it just doesn't resonate as, You really understanding things on a deeper level. We want them to really feel like, oh my gosh, she is in my head. How does she know that I wake up at 3:00 AM in the middle of the night and think about this stuff? So what's missing with this problem that I'm talking about here? Are you struggling to grow your business? Is that It's not paired with an internal problem. So in StoryBrand, there are really three levels of every \[00:16:00\] problem. There's the external, the internal problem, and the philosophical problem. The external problem is really the situation, the external situation. It's the thing you can describe factually, the internal problem is really how that situation makes you feel. It's the emotion underneath it. And then the philosophical problem is the deeper, it's just not right or you deserve something better. It's the injustice of it, and most coaches name that. Sternal and then they skip straight to their solution. But your visitor doesn't need you to name their situation. it's okay to name it, but you always really wanna parro it with that internal problem because. People really make decisions based on emotion, and when you really tap into their emotions around this problem, they are more likely to just justify it after the fact with, with their head. but it's because you've tapped into that internal \[00:17:00\] problem. so what they need you to name is really how it feels to be in that situation. That's what, that's really what creates that. Oh my gosh, she really gets me moment. Now let me walk you through some real life, real world websites that I have created and I'm gonna show you the problem section of each of them, and don't worry if you're listening, I'm gonna talk you through each one, so you're not gonna miss anything. Okay, now we're gonna start with Krista's website. So the overarching problem is many widows get stuck in survival mode. I like to lead into this section with the external problem, and then I like to get into the internal problem in bullets below. So Krista actually has two different audiences. They're, they're both widows, but some of them are in the early stages of grief, and some of them are in the later stages of grief. So a few problems for that first audience is. Soon \[00:18:00\] after loss. Are you wondering if you're grieving the right way? Battling brain fog and emotional exhaustion, feeling alone because no one really understands, barely keeping it together for those around you, uncertain about what comes next. Notice all the emotions that come up in those bullet points. We're really like looking under the hood of the problem and naming the emotions that come along with that problem. And then for her other group of clients who are widows, who have, who, have been grieving for a while, we say, if you've been grieving for a while. Are you wishing you were farther along? Are you afraid your best days are behind you? Are you feeling guilty about wanting more from life again, are you trying everything but still feeling lost day to day? Are you unsure who you are now and how to rebuild? So this is where really we ensure that the visitor. Feels seen, feels heard, feels not alone in their struggle. And \[00:19:00\] again, when you, when you really articulate this well, they feel like you're obviously the best one to solve it. So now we're gonna move on to a parenting coach example, Julie, overarching problem, Mainstream parenting strategies often don't work on kids with difficult behaviors, external problem. This is really great. This is the overarching external problem. Then in the bullets below, we've got. Are you struggling with walking on eggshells, dreading the next meltdown, avoiding social situations due to your child's unpredictable behaviors, everyday tasks and transitions that feel impossible to navigate with your child Parenting techniques that are no longer working, disconnection and isolation due to strained relationships. So notice again, we're. We're popping open that hood and we're articulating the internal problem. And I love to pair this section with a, an image of what this looks like, an image \[00:20:00\] of your hero struggling. We wanna bring to life the bullets that we're working through. Andrea's problem section. Remember, she works with, uh, she helps people navigate in infidelity and emerge stronger than ever. So her problem section says that overarching problem is. Beta betrayed women often lose trust in their intuition because they were intentionally deceived. Are you struggling with intense emotions that cycle between anger, blame, embarrassment, and shame, indecision about your relationship in its future, the inability to trust your own judgment or intuition? The inability to find peace because everything feels chaotic and unstable. And then we wanna pair those bullets with an image of what that actually looks like. Often, like this would be a woman in, in distress, feeling uncertain, and out of touch with herself. For Molly's problem section, we've got, \[00:21:00\] you've tried to build the life that you thought would make you happy, but you often feel exhausted, anxious, and disconnected. Are you fed up with a life that checks all the boxes, but you still feel dissatisfied? Constant pressure to keep it all together while running on empty. Feeling desperate to feel like yourself again, the chaos of life and never ending responsibilities. So notice we're just really articulating the problem and we want the visitor to be nodding their head yes. Finally, someone who gets it and they don't have to nod their head at every bullet, but at least a few. And then the final example that I wanna share with you for the problem section is Megan's. The overarching problem is many working moms carry an invisible mental load that no amount of productivity hacks will fix. Are you fed up with mental fatigue and internal buzz that never shuts off losing yourself between the to-do list and, and bedtime routines. People \[00:22:00\] pleasing and perfectionism that leave you completely depleted, promising yourself, you'll do better than feeling guilty when you don't. So these are really great examples of articulating that problem and her working mom clients are gonna be feeling just so relieved, so seen, so heard in their struggle. Okay, so how do you know if your hero and your problem sections are actually working? So here's what I want you to do right now. If you can go to your website, pull up your homepage, and I want you to audit two sections back to back. Start with your hero section, the very top of the page. Read the headline out loud, and then ask yourself, does this name a specific person and a specific result, or is it vague that it could apply to almost everyone? Then ask, am I the subject of this sentence, or is my client the main focus of this headline? if your headline starts with I help women fill in the blank, that's \[00:23:00\] totally okay. As long as the rest of this sentence is entirely about them. If it starts with, hi, I am Jamie, we should probably talk about revamping those words. Then count the words. If your headline is more than 12 or 15 words, it's probably trying to carry too much. See if you can cut it down and still say the same thing. I want you to edit, edit, edit. Then I want you to scroll down to your problem section. Read your problem bullets out loud and slowly for each one ask, is this describing the situation, the external situation, or is it describing how it feels to be in that situation? It's okay to have your headline in the problem section be about the external problem. I like to have my headline name, the external problem. Then I really like the bullets underneath them to name the internal problem. And here's the question that will tell you everything. If your ideal client reads this right now, \[00:24:00\] would they think that's so of me, or would they think. How does she know exactly what I'm going through? How is she in my head? if you answered sort of, you've got a little bit of work to do and if you answered Yeah, exactly. They can name themselves. You are definitely on the right track. **So here's what I want you to remember from today.** The hero section and the problem section are the gatekeepers of your entire website. Get them right, be clear, client focused, be specific. And you really buy more time with your client. Your visitor will say, oh, I, I trust them enough to keep reading. When you get these wrong, if they're wordy, if they're vague, if they're nuanced. They're gonna bail and they're gonna bail before they get ever get a chance to spend time with you and understand what you do and what you offer. So all the coaches we looked at today. They were able to earn trust in a handful of seconds. Not because they have beautiful websites, which they do, \[00:25:00\] but because they led with clarity and they named the internal experience of their client, that's the work. Part two, we're gonna come back to a handful of these same wire frames and we're gonna work our way down the page. We're gonna work our way through the next two sections, so stick with me, come back and we'll keep going through the page. **Speaker 3:** If you're listening today and thinking, I need someone to look at my website and tell me exactly what's going on, that's what my money making messaging call is for. We'll look at your messaging together, find the gaps, and you'll leave knowing exactly what you need to change. The link is in the show notes, so go look at your hero section and if it starts with, hi, I am Jackie, you'll know what to do, I will see you in part two. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most \[00:26:00\] powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/how-ai-follow-up-is-closing-more-clients ### Title: How AI Follow-Up Is Closing More Clients (SMS + Voice AI) with David Asarnow ### Page ID: 9121849 ### Content: # How AI Follow-Up Is Closing More Clients (SMS + Voice AI) with David Asarnow How AI Follow-Up Is Closing More Clients (SMS + Voice AI) with David Asarnow **What if the best thing you could do for your coaching business this year costs you absolutely nothing?** My guest this week, David Asarnow, pitched a conference to let him speak. He told them he'd make it easy to say yes. He'd do it for free. Just cover the flight and hotel. And he walked away with $75,000 in new business from that one talk. And that's just the beginning of what we cover in this episode. David has helped his clients generate **over $750 million in revenue**, and he is refreshingly specific about what actually works. This conversation is for you if you're tired of chasing leads and ready to start attracting the right ones. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Speaker 2:** David Asarnow, thank you for being here today. David is the founder of a company called Business Nitrogen, and he has helped his clients generate over 750 million in revenue. I feel like that number might even be low. David, you. Correct me if I'm wrong. I am so happy to, to have you here today. And David has kind of a magical ability to help his clients get unstuck and reach the revenue goals that they're moving towards. So David, welcome. **Speaker:** Oh, let me count the ways. you, what, what do I do? I help clients, really figure out where they wanna go, \[00:01:00\] where the bottlenecks are, and then create the connections or the strategies. I build companies and I help people sell things. How else do you do that? You connect the dots. You've got sales, you've got marketing, you've got operations. And since I've built multiple eight figure businesses for myself and other people, it gives me the vision of being in a company as well as outside doing it myself. All the things you need to do and the things that hold so many entrepreneurs back. So I just literally get in and it becomes fun. I co-create their business with them and help them see their vision become a reality. And that's really what I do. And that's what's fun. **Speaker 2:** Give me an example of what that looks like. If you like, worked with a coach or a consultant, what did they come to you complaining about or struggling with? And then show, walk us through what you did for them and where they ended up. **Speaker:** Okay. Well, I can give you a couple examples in the past and I have a story from yesterday. Great. Great. **Speaker:** I'll, I had a client of mine who, uh, was doing multiple seven figures. Well, he was, he was, and then \[00:02:00\] his, he lost his platform that he was selling in at seminars and events, and it was, he had one outlet and he is like, how do I duplicate this? And I said, well, what's your goal? **Speaker 2:** Wait, rewind. How did he lose the platform? **Speaker:** Well, it was a, it was one seminar speaker, one seminar that did seminars around the world. **Speaker:** So the question then is how do you recreate that? Right. And I said, well, we can recreate it online. He says, well, I've never done online. And I said, okay, great. Still, we can do it online. And I said, what's your goal? He said, I'd like to get to a million dollars in the next 12 months. I said if you've done more than that, I believe that we can get you there. You're going to need to learn a different way of communicating. I'm gonna have, you're gonna have to be coachable on, because how you do it live is a little bit different than how you do live events, especially if you don't have that same engagement. You have to actually amp up your energy because people feel it differently when you're in a room compared to when you're in a computer screen. \[00:03:00\] And so I. And then we created a vessel for him. We created the funnel, the marketing, the positioning, and we created the change in how he's gonna be offering his products to get people into his world. And so, not everything one does has this kind of success. We were able to accomplish it in in 90 days. Wow. And, you know, and then he grew a multimillion dollar business over the next couple years, so he was able to get it all back and then found some new stages and was able to amplify it from there. I have a client I've been working with now, and they don't have a lead problem. They're getting a lot of leads and they're doing it for live events, and they do live event training, and then their offer is a three day event. And from there they have, you know, a high ticket upsell offer and. There was a bunch of little things that can be fixed from how do you make the position for the offer, but if you look upstream, where can you make the greatest impact? And so when as a consultant, we always have to look there, there's a lot of little things that can be \[00:04:00\] fixed, but where can we make the greatest impact in the shortest period of time to add value? And so they were talking about, well, I need better lead quality. I said, great. I do believe that you need better lead quality. However, if you have an event that you have 30 something people register for, seven people commit and you only have three people show up, I think you have a different problem that we need to address first before you spend more money on fixing the back end. You've really gotta fix the front end, right, and put the right kind of systems. And if you look at, well, what's broken or what could be fixed? It. It's like, okay, people register. They get the confirmation. I said today you can actually, either human or you can use artificial intelligence once someone opts in to have a conversation with them and let them know. Soon as you opt in, we're gonna send a text message. We want you to respond to it. And tell us why you're registering for this. And now all of a sudden you're getting into why. You start understanding what their pain, their challenge, their problem is on why they're attending the event. And then through artificial intelligence, \[00:05:00\] it can actually have a, a pretty decent conversation with someone. Say, this is awesome. We're gonna share with your presenter that's gonna be training you, uh, at your upcoming event. And now everything that goes to that potential client. Could be could be personalized. And because people don't care, you know, what you offer unless it's going to solve their needs. And today we live in such a distracted society and. I mean, that's just one little tweak. Now, I gave 'em an entire step-by-step checklist and plan of what needs to be done. However, I said before we do anything, we need to get more people showing up because if you can change your show rate from 20% to 35 to 50%, you can double your revenue with money you've already spent without making doing anything else, **Speaker 2:** So how are you gonna get more people to show up? **Speaker:** well, exactly that. Instead of, instead of just sending a text message reminder, my plan was, well, first on the landing page you're gonna have a video. When they register, you're going to have a second video that \[00:06:00\] encourages them that they made a really good decision and here's why you made a decision. Uh, I'll give you something else that we're gonna add in there. then. It's going to AI will message them in or text message them instantly and just say, we're so excited to see you at the event. Can you please tell us what, what inspired you to register? And it's open-ended. We're now getting all this detail about them. We're able to have conversations. The good news is all of this then goes into their CRM, which for them it's HubSpot and they're now. Able to have everyone downstream who speaks with this potential client, understands what their motivators are, what's driving that person, where they are at their life, and why they're looking to get that problem solved. So that, to me, that's a real simple low. Cost to no cost solution. In the scheme of things, when you're spending millions of dollars in marketing, you're not talking, you're talking a couple hundred dollars a month in, in something that could be a quick fix that gets more personalization and engagement. Now, uh, one of the other things that they didn't have \[00:07:00\] is a way to follow up on, they have hundreds of thousands of people over the years that have registered for an event and never showed up. And so, they're going to now, next stage is going to be a survey segmentation file to find the, we're gonna use a personality, what x personality type are you? Mm-hmm. And find out, because people like that. Once they take that, it will be agnostic to the company. And then once they're in, it will have a video that explains their personality for that service that this company offers. And then it will make a, a re-pitch inviting them to take that next step. So all of this is over the past few days, how to address that problem. **Speaker 2:** I think you touch on a, like a overarching theme that often the nuts and bolts of what you're doing are working or almost working. And it that really having somebody come in with a, a fresh perspective **Speaker 2:** To make sure that everything is \[00:08:00\] tuned up properly and that a couple of little tweaks can make a huge difference in the bottom line. **Speaker:** It's where can you create the most leverage in the shortest period of time? And you know, as a consultant or a coach, when you work with clients, you want to figure out how you can get a win quickly. **Speaker:** Making generating revenue or saving money. And if you can figure out how to help them generate revenue or save money and create a win for them, they don't look at you as an expense. They look at you as an investment in their business. **Speaker 2:** I mean, that's the way it should be, right? Like how are you gonna get a return and then continue to grow your revenue after that? Absolutely. So you, you mentioned AI as one of the things that you leveraged and you're leveraging with this client. Are there other. Ways that you've integrated AI into your client work for your business or your client's business? Anything that hasn't worked with ai or are you really figuring it out and what are \[00:09:00\] the ways that it's working for you outside of the The chat? **Speaker:** Outside of chat GPT, we're using voice. Ai. We have complete, people say that they want leads, but they don't want leads. They want appointments. And so if you look at from, uh, a customer, you know, if you hired a outsourced setter team, they're not going to be able to have a level 10 conversation, most likely about your products, your good, your services, and you can actually train I to have that ai, to have that kind of conversation and even have it with empathy. And so we've complete. We've created my company Business Nitrogen for clients, a complete appointment booking system where the lead comes in, has a conversation, acknowledges that it's ai, and just says, Hey, if you'd like to speak with a person, I'll transfer you at any time, but in the meantime, would you please give me an opportunity to serve you? Just little things. Yeah. If you're, if you're authentic, if you don't try to pull the wool, the people heat \[00:10:00\] when, oh, this is ai. But if you disclose upfront **Speaker:** People are willing to give it a chance. And it's getting better by the, I I used to say it's getting better by the month, but I think it's getting better by the day. **Speaker:** And so we're doing that now as far as, as how other clients, because I do AI speaking and AI consulting and as well I mean for some clients we're. Where's the biggest bottleneck? Onboarding clients. They have to scan current client paperwork or invoices and to find out everything about them and how they can serve them better. And we've created a system where, you know, before it would take about 45 minutes to two hours to just do the intake for a new potential client. And do the evaluation, and now they just scan in and AI does it automatically and it becomes infinite scalable. And the reason that it's challenging is they've got, I'll just say. They have to have the variable of 30 to 50 different types of, forms that are being scanned in. And the AI has to \[00:11:00\] recognize where it goes from, where to place it, and how to calculate it based upon that. And so, our team is able to, our AI development team and business nitrogen, business nitrogen, ai, so two companies, and we were able to do that for this client. That is all about how do they save money because. We created a Target 10. I did something I, I used to work for Tony Robinson, Chet Holmes, and Chet Holmes calls it the Dream 100, and I joke with Chet, I said, well, I had it before you. I called the Target 25 because I was able to build a $45 million business for a. A 50-year-old company with only 25 prospects. They just happen to be big prospects, so I call it Target 25. We went down this avenue with them on the strategy, and then all of it's funny what happens when you have intention and you have focus, and all of a sudden you tune everything else out. Literally these. Multimillion dollar clients started appearing just because the intention change. They, the lens, they started seeing them and now it was before it was like, okay, here's what, well, within months it started happening and how do we onboard all these \[00:12:00\] people without hiring more people? I said, well, we could do it with ai. And we just did a, a, a test to prove out that it worked. 'cause I didn't believe it could work and it worked. So it's, those are two very different examples with artificial intelligence on what you can do. By the way, everyone here just needs to get really good at communicating with AI because the reason I love it because you have 140 plus IQ that becomes your collaboration partner. And that means iron sharpens iron. So many people say that people's, pre prefrontal cortex is dying because of ai. It's because they're not using it to challenge themselves to get them thinking in a 360 degree way. Mm-hmm. When you start having a challenge, you and you, it's asking you questions that you actually have to think. You've now got. An amazing coach. Now, I've also used AI because I've created some models and where I used to do a Strat, a quarterly strategy with the client, and we're sitting there doing all the strategy and planning I can. I will do it now because I put my models into, Into custom GPTs or \[00:13:00\] projects. I will actually do it alone along with the client recording it and literally interviewing the client using ai. And they don't, they don't care. They don't care that we're using AI and say, I'm, they're not asking can me, they pay me less, but we're able to accomplish more in a shorter period of time, and which is, once again, creating leverage, saving time, which means you're saving money Yeah. What are some of the ways that you interact with AI for your own business that allows you to have breakthroughs? **Speaker:** Well, breakthroughs I will get lost in. I've had a lot of breakthroughs using the models that I've created to work with clients and just working it through myself. And so before I do anything with anyone else, I have to be the The Guinea pig. **Speaker:** And it's so funny, I was speaking in an entrepreneur conference that had about 500 people there and I was at the \[00:14:00\] conference day one and I heard some things that were going on and I said, I need to. I would, I did a a, I had a 90 minute and then a two hour workshop with them. And before the 90 minute I said, I'm gonna give an exercise to these guys and we're gonna do a live drive through. And I had a, I came with an idea and so I just wanted to put it to the test that night. And I ended up going down a rabbit hole for two and a half hours myself that I had breakthroughs. And by the way, I was able to tell the story the next day. We're gonna do something right now that I think is so cool that. I got lost two and a half hours into it. Now, you're not gonna spend two and a half hours today in the workshop. We're just going to play with it. However, afterwards, I encourage you to go back to what we're going to be working on. And so to me it was like different ways to look at things. It's, to me, it's fun. It's amazing how it gets. It really can have us harness, harness the power of everything that we have here that we don't even realize and don't think about on a day-to-day basis. **Speaker 2:** Alright, so I wanna talk a little bit about the journey from an interested \[00:15:00\] lead or a potential client comes to your website. Uh, encounters the you online. tell me about what happens, like where do coaches and consultants go wrong with the buyer's journey? Right. The, you mentioned that people want booked calls, and that is true, like the call is the fastest way to more profits, but you've gotta get on the call with them. So let's say somebody is on a website, they. Book a call. Where are the holes or where are the bottlenecks or what are people doing wrong that they could easily tune up? **Speaker:** Well, I wouldn't say anyone's I don't, until you see something, you don't know what we're doing wrong. The question we have to really ask is what, what are some, if we're selling, coaching, or consulting, which means typically it's it's high ticket and which means we have to show value. And so one of the things that I recommend is not making it easy on the front end for someone to book an appointment with you. You \[00:16:00\] make them, you ask questions, in an open. Manner to have them give you details and information. You provide value and content to them on your website so they have an idea of who you are, what you're about, and how you're going to serve them or add value to them. And then once they do, you make them jump through a lot of hoops. You ask very detailed questions. You let them know, listen. I don't know if it makes sense for us to work together, you be honest. Mm-hmm. You know, I only can take on a certain number of clients that I'm gonna work with. So, I'm asking you these questions because I need to know who you are and make sure that I can serve you. 'cause I'm not gonna take you on unless I think I can serve you. And I've actually had people who emailed us and said, I spent over half an hour answering your questions. I'm done with it. We're not. You know, you were asking too many questions and I was joking with my team. I said, that's exactly why we ask these kind of questions, right? Because that wouldn't be a good client. Because I always, I joke with people, it's like Mr. Miyagi says, I say, you do no questions, which means if I tell you to paint the fence, you paint the fence, \[00:17:00\] I'm telling you to wax on, wax off, you wax on, wax off. And. Those are the kind of clients that we want because they're going to be coachable. They're going to be res, be open to receiving the information that we give them, and that's how they're going to get results and see the value in you as a coach or consultant. So ask detailed questions and make sure that you can end then. What I would do, and this has nothing to do with ai, then provide content and information before the meeting that to acknowledge them, and you made this, now I want you to watch this video. Step one, watch this video. Step two, do this. Once again you're training them to see if they're going to be a good po potential fit for you as a coach or consultant. And so for each individual company or person. I would do that now. I get most of my leads. we do pay for traffic and we drive people to our website and it's not a lot of leads that we're getting or looking for. 'cause I don't, can't only handle a certain number anyway. \[00:18:00\] But we get people and usually they'll speak to someone on my team first before they'll get to speak with me just to make sure that we are a good fit for each other. **Speaker:** go. Google tends to be a little bit more targeted of a lead than a meta. and the problem on meta, oh, we do a lot on meta for clients. But if you're a coach or consultant, the best thing to do on meta is to have an offer or a low ticket offer, an ebook or something where they can start getting indoctrinated with you in your information. And then you can have the ascension and the meeting with you is the, you know, the coaching call is the, the highest ticket upsell. So they've paid for that time. And, and when people pay, they pay attention. the other side of things where we don't charge. On our website is because people usually call 'cause they've seen me speak somewhere. And so I've already built value in speaking engagement and, and frankly, that's one of the best things a coach or consultant can do. Speak for \[00:19:00\] free. Speak. I mean, I'll give you an example of that. They were, look, this, this conference was looking for an AI speaker and they were looking for a big name and they didn't know who I was. And even that, I spoke and I said, I'm gonna make it really easy for you to say yes to me. They looked at me and I said, I know you think you want these other people. I'll send you a speaker reel. I used to be a tough speaker for Tony Robinson, Chet Holmes. I wouldn't put myself or you in a place to not serve your audience, and I will do it for free. Just pay for my flight at my hotel. They just looked at me and they, because they, I know they I, one of my friends who gets paid 50,000 as a speaker said I would never have done that. But here's the thing, the back end of that, I've made over $75,000 so far from that one keynote. Yeah. Because I was, I put trust in myself that I'm gonna serve the audience. So here's the funny thing. At that conference, I was the top rated speaker at the event, and I was the only one that didn't charge. **Speaker:** So that is one other thing that a coach or consultant can do. Speak wherever you can. Add \[00:20:00\] value wherever you can, and the right people are going to raise their hand and reach out to you. And as long as you do everything you can to serve them, they'll raise their hand to serve. To serve. And by the way, I, at the event I asked, can I give some free giveaway? And they said yes. I said, I got an idea. People who like this, what if I did a webinar afterwards where they can come, they can bring their teams. I'll do a Zoom. A zoom, interactive zoom. I'll go deeper on one of the things that I teach at the event. They're like, you'd be willing to do that. I said, heck yes. **Speaker:** And then I was at the end of my talk, I was able to put a QR code. Any of you want more of this? Just register for my free webinar. I'm gonna do it on a week. And I said I'm gonna do it before I go to Nepal. 'cause I went to Nepal with my son. I said, I'll do doing it the Friday before I leave for Nepal. And I did. And it's because of that, that people are like, when you coming back, I wanna meet with you. So I already had my calendar booked when I got back from my trip with a month later. **Speaker 2:** That's brilliant. Really brilliant. Okay, so you, You people come to your website, you qua, you have a team member meet with them first, and then you get on a call with them. \[00:21:00\] And on that call, essentially, do they make the decision if they're gonna work with you or not? Or do you ever get off the call and they're like, I wanna think about it. **Speaker:** I don't like to do the, I'll think about it. So really I never do a one call close because I'm actually giving them homework usually on that first call. So I'm literally saying, okay, I don't know if we should work together yet. I wanna, I'm gonna give you some homework. I wanna see, you know, we're gonna get back. Because if we're gonna work, I play hard to get, I guess, I mean, there's a theme here, right? Right. But would, and but it's true because my time is valuable and I wanna make sure if I'm gonna spend time with someone, I wanna spend time with someone. **Speaker:** And so I wanna know how they think and how they operate, and that they're going to do the work that they need to do. And I don't, I can't remember. If anyone who didn't say, do the homework and come back, and then from, and I say, by the way, if we're going to work together, this is what it will look like. I \[00:22:00\] say now, after a while, I have a Partners in Profit program where I can reduce your fee on a monthly basis. And I get a percentage of your revenue growth, but I won't even look at that until we've worked together six months to make sure that we like working together, because that's making a longer term commitment and I'm not ready to do that yet. **Speaker 2:** You are hard to get. I love this. I love this. It's so refreshing. What, tell me about the homework that you give on the first call **Speaker:** it, well, it really depends upon the conversation, so, okay. I, it, I really, it's, like I said, it's totally fluid. Oh. I'm asking a lot of questions. I don't know where the conversation is going to go, but it's really. I wanna know about their business. And it's not just about money growth. Why are you doing this? What's your end game? Where, why are you looking to scale this company? Where do you want to take it? Tell me about the team members. What do you see as the par challenges of bottlenecks? And based upon that, I will give them homework to do. In fact, a lot of times I will give. I will, I have a bunch of different custom GPTs I've created that. I'll just give it to them. And I said, I want you to put this exact question in \[00:23:00\] the GPT. It's going to interview you because I'm al almost training them how to work with me right then and there. Right. And. Yeah. And then we'll come back and I'll, I'll have them send it to me and we're gonna review it, and then we're gonna have another conversation. And by that time, if they've done the homework, we're pro and they already know the pricing, we're probably gonna work together. **Speaker 2:** Yeah. Yeah. It's a courtship. It's real quick. **Speaker:** Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah, I mean, it is, and I know what it's like. I do know what it's like. Because you've, I know you've watched some of my videos and you saw my TED talk. I know what it's like to be right at the end and 30 days from losing everything. And sometimes it's hard to push people away. And we want that customer and s. And sell. However, I can tell you based upon now what I've seen, and you've probably seen this too, if we bring people on because we need the money, it's probably not gonna be a good fit. We're going to regret it afterwards, and it's going to cost us more time and money because it's, we brought on the wrong person. **Speaker 2:** Yes. And the cost is \[00:24:00\] so much greater than we think it's gonna be, including right here. Right? It is. It's here. And they're like in here. Yes. And as entrepreneurs, like we don't step away from the business like we, I think I can speak for myself, like I care so deeply about my clients that I'm having ideas and thoughts about them. Uh, throughout the day. and so yeah, it's, it's when it's not a good fit, the cost is way beyond the money, way beyond it. **Speaker:** It's, it's very high. So someone the best lead generation that we, as coaches and consultants, and I say this knowing that I have a business growth strategy company, but I do work with a handful of clients. I, I would say every time I speak, I pick up a client. And or a new opportunity or referral to someone else. So if you don't have. A platform to speak at, run an event for entrepreneurs or whoever your market is that you serve and run a free event. Rent out a a hotel conference room and advertise it locally. Put you know, 500 to a thousand dollars in Facebook ads \[00:25:00\] targeting your audience. Get people in the room for free. I can pretty much almost guarantee that if you do that for free, your right client will raise their hand. **Speaker 2:** Do you think there's any benefit to charging even a small amount for that to like you there Is that the value of it is perceived differently. **Speaker:** It, it is perceived differently. And if you're desperate and you need people to show up **Speaker:** I mean, that's what I've done in the past and I, it's interesting 'cause I have different people who charge a lot less per month than I do that will charge for a strategy call with someone. And I said, well, I'm not having the first call with them, so someone else is on the team is talking to them. **Speaker:** And I have to, I always look at myself, would I pay for a strategy call for someone that I don't know? And. Maybe if it was a big name person, I wanted to, but for the most part, if someone's willing to give me their time I'm appreciative and grateful for it. **Speaker:** So I assume that other people are as well. And \[00:26:00\] even though there may not, by the end of the call, they are **Speaker 2:** totally, yeah. Yeah, that's true. So you've worked with Tony Robbins for many years. what have, what did you learn from, from him? Like looking back on that phase of your life, what were like some of the key learnings, positive or negative that you walked away with there? **Speaker:** I can tell you that, well, my experience with Tony was kind of interesting. My first job out of co. Well, no, my second job outta college, I got an opportunity for a job interview. I was living in Clearwater at the time and they wanted me to meet in Tallahassee five hours away. And it was in, eight 30 or 9:00 AM interview. And so I got up at three in the morning and listened to, this is in 92. I listened to Personal Power five cassettes from Nightingale Conant back then. On the whole ride up there, I was pounding my chest screaming, you know, Uhhuh and I, I said, there's no way these, this company's not hiring me. And I got the job. **Speaker:** And \[00:27:00\] I moved to Atlanta because of that. A friend of mine that I met in Atlanta, just a long story or I'll shorten the story. Good friend. We're still friends this day, 35 years later. So, uh, we're playing tennis one day at our apartment complex, and he's like, Hey, I'm moving to California next week. I'm gonna work for this guy, Tony Robbins. And he invited me to Tony Robbins event. It was probably a thousand people. It was in years ago. It was back then in the nineties. And I remember sitting in that room saying, one day I wanna be on that stage doing that. The problem was I was scared to stand up in front of the room. And. Who would've known, just 15 years or so later that I would, get that opportunity and, and get to speak on, for him in chat. I wasn't on the motivation rah rah side. I was on their, the business growth side of things. Yeah. They had business Breakthroughs International, of which Business Mastery came out of that. Mm-hmm. So we used to teach that, those principles. I can tell you that the number one thing that I learned \[00:28:00\] is. Don't try to do someone else's talk. Be yourself. And so when I integrated the teachings of Tony and Chet and I was able to then add in my own personality and take the principles, but utilize stories of how I applied the information versus telling their case studies, **Speaker:** I created a different connection with clients and the number one thing that I got. Is time I was speaking, they were two and a half to three hour workshops and I was doing five to seven of them a week. Okay, that is what honed my I where I was able to hone my skills. Because you're doing workshops for entrepreneurs and you never know what they're gonna throw at you, and you have to solve their problems based upon the strategy that you're teaching right then and there, and have them come up with breakthroughs. So the gift that I got was realizing that, A, I was good at it, but b, I actually really enjoy it today to this day. I love just. Solving people's problems. I love the workshop. Get in front of the room, teach, educate, solve problems, move on to the next \[00:29:00\] concept. So I got to find out a, what I love do where, what I love doing and what I get to do, and have them join together. And I'm speaking a lot these days because of it. In fact, that came out of our trip to Nepal. My son's like, dad, why don't you just speak more? You love it. You love doing that. And I said, Josh you're right. And so I've made a concerted effort now to do that. **Speaker 2:** How do you make, how do you create a talk that's really engaging and really compelling? You talked about this last event that you are the top rated speaker, the only one that, that did it for free. how did, how do you make your talks so great? I think that's the million dollar question. **Speaker:** Ask questions. So the way that you make, instead of doing so, listen, there, there's some amazing keynote speakers and it's like putting on a performance. It is art, it is artistry and the ability to get up there and do that the same way every single ti, every single time. I wanna be careful because I have done it. I did it for my TED Talk, although I look at my TED Talk now and I'm like, I could have done this. I \[00:30:00\] could have done that. **Speaker:** Although it was the first time that I ever. Memorize something and delivered it as if it was the first time I was giving it. The way I did that though, was the first time, uh, my family was in the audience. They had never seen my talk before, so when I was delivering it, I knew when I was telling those stories and my daughter's there, and I'm talking about how I had to borrow her babysitting money when she was 12 years old just to pay mortgage. Oh **Speaker:** Wow. And I'm telling the story and I'm looking at her and I see her, and then she says, dad, I'll, I'll give it to you, but will you pay me back? **Speaker:** So I knew that I would be able to step and feel the motion if I delivered it for the first time, and they were hearing it for the first time. **Speaker:** My parents didn't even know any of this, that I was going through this, because I kept it internally and didn't share. So it, I've never given that talk again. **Speaker:** and so how do you give an art a, a talk? There's certain patterns and flows that are out there, that you can model and how to create that story and how do you \[00:31:00\] open it and engage them. How do you deliver a piece of knowledge and open a loop? Go do another thing. Open the loop. You give your knowledge, and at the end you have a way that you can tie it all together so that way, because they, you open a loop they're, yeah, they'll still stay engaged because you haven't closed it. Right? And then at the end, you tie it all together and it, you package it into a bow. I learned it from studying other people, reading books and, uh, watching movies, programs. **Speaker 2:** And watching movies. Movies, movies. Doing all movies. Yeah. Yeah, **Speaker:** yeah. movies are great at that. I remember I was giving a talk one day in it was probably about 150 people there, and a friend of mine messaged me and he's really good at this. He doesn't deliver the talks, but he is really good at coaching other people on it. **Speaker:** And he's like, well, what are you delivering your talk on? And I said, dude, I need I'm like, I'm gonna be up all night doing this. He said, let's, let's get on a Zoom. And he started asking me questions and he said, he said, walk me through your talk. He said, why don't you do this? And he helped me restructure it. And he, he's the one who \[00:32:00\] taught me about the opening the loops. And he's like, if you did it this way, and at the end of it, people next day, people said, that was the best talk I've ever seen you give. And I've spoken to that audience before. I'm not necessarily, I can help someone on the delivery. I'm not the person that would ever help someone write their talk. I, but I know the components and pieces in how to do it. I know how to do it for myself. I'm just, it's not what I do for other people. **Speaker:** But hire someone. Find someone who's good. Find, there's people online that have YouTube channels that talk about how to open a talk, how to get people sitting at the edge of their seat. The big thing is. I ask a lot of questions. I hook their mind. Every time you ask a question, you hook their mind. You get them to give you feedback. Does this make sense? Are you learning something? Is this valuable to you? When they're doing that, they're also saying, yeah, this is a valuable talk. So at the end of it, they're, they're not gonna say, yes, they're out. That it was great. And then afterwards say it wasn't. And you can watch the people in the room and see how they're reacting. And, I remember taking a training from, uh, t Harv Ecker in the beginning of my speaking, and he called it, or, uh, \[00:33:00\] Blake Singer was his trainer at the time, and it, he called it asis in. Sometimes you just have to call it as is in the room and you see it just to make sure that you're going in the right direction and serving your audience. **Speaker 2:** Mm. Tell me more about that. What do you mean as a zine? What does that mean? **Speaker:** If you, if you see that people are disconnected or they're not getting what you're saying, you acknowledge that. **Speaker:** Say, I think I'm losing you here. I'm, I'm seeing that there's a disconnect. let me ask you a question. Does this make sense? And if it doesn't, please tell me how, where I'm missing things. Just talk about as a human with them, **Speaker:** love that this is a workshop speaker. It's not, you know, an orchestrated, you know, keynote. **Speaker 2:** Alright, David, it's been such a delight to have you here today. Let's leave our listeners with one thing they can do to move toward reaching their financial goals. **Speaker:** One thing that they can do to reach their financial goals? **Speaker 2:** Yes. If the CO in coaching and consulting. Just **Speaker:** Serve more people. Get out there. Give value, give content. Whether you're your medium is in person speaking as I like to do, or you're putting value in content online. Do more of it. Do more of it. I have a FA friend of mine who was a client and now a friend, and six months into it, he had 300 followers, and now he's the number one influencer. Five years later. In his niche, and it's because he said, what am I doing wrong? I said, you're not connecting to your audience. Be vulnerable. Tell the tell your story and connect it to their pain, challenge and problem, and show them how you can be that person to solve it for them. And the right people, as I said, will raise their hand and start following you. **Speaker 2:** Amen. Amen. Drop the mic. So where can people find you? **Speaker:** On Instagram Real David as Sarno, and, uh, business nitrogen, david as sarno.com, business nitrogen.com or.ai and david as sarno.com. **Speaker 2:** Alright, thank you so much for your time. It was great. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a \[00:35:00\] moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/why-your-website-isnt-getting-you-clients ### Title: The Storytelling Secret Behind High-Converting Websites with Mark & Katie Adams ### Page ID: 9132162 ### Content: # The Storytelling Secret Behind High-Converting Websites with Mark & Katie Adams The Storytelling Secret Behind High-Converting Websites with Mark & Katie Adams **And if you're honest, not one client has ever found you through it.** But something feels off, and you can't quite put your finger on it. Your website is acting like a static brochure that introduces you and lists what you do. Your ideal client reads it and thinks, "This person sounds great." **And the coach with the clearer message gets the client.** In this week’s *From Click to Client* episode, I’m sharing a conversation from *The Unforget Yourself Show* with Mark and Katie Adams. We unpack the one story shift that turns a website from something that “looks good” into something that actually brings in clients. It's just a different way of thinking about what your site needs to say. **If you’ve ever looked at your own website and felt that quiet “*this isn’t it*” feeling… this is the answer.** **Speaker:** \[00:00:00\] I had such a wonderful time talking with Mark on the Unforget Yourself Show that I wanted to share it with you here today. Enjoy. Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. So today we have with us Kris Jones, founder of Red Door Designs, who help service-based businesses transform their websites into compelling narratives through a signature storytelling system with a strategic blend of storytelling and conversion optimization. Kris guide coaches and consultants to replace complex marketing with a single. Powerful story, helping them achieve dramatic revenue growth and client attraction. Now, Kris's evolution from designing for Nike and Adidas to helping small business \[00:01:00\] owners demonstrates the power of authentic storytelling and drawing. From 23 years of experience, she's now helping service providers turn their expertise into websites that sell 24 7. Because that's the points. Beautiful. Kris, welcome to the show. Ah, I'm thrilled to be here, mark. Well, thank you so much for joining us. So can you just expand on that very British introduction, as I realized I pronounced all the things in the British terms, rather American. Um, where are you right now of your business and who, who do you love to work with? Oh, I love working with any. Business owner that, uh, that runs a client based business. So if you work with clients. I like to work with you. Hmm. Service providers, the clients that I work with are really doing the work that they love. They're doing the work that they're put on the planet to do, and they just wanna focus on doing the work \[00:02:00\] because they're passionate about helping their clients. They're passionate about the work they do. They're they're experts at their craft and. What people don't realize when they decide to be self-employed is that you also have to be a part-time marketer and nobody wants to be a time. Are you sure? Sometimes it feels like more than that, right? This is true, yes. At least a part-time marketer and the people I work with, they don't want it to be like that. They wanna be able to focus on their work and they wanna have. Systems, um, and marketing tools set, set up, uh, that work on autopilot. So the website is one of many things that you can use, um, to get clients and to really kind of, I believe your website should be your most powerful marketing tool. I believe your website should be the, the. The thing that acts as your top sales employee, and when it \[00:03:00\] does, it frees up you to focus on the work that you love and, and that's what I love doing for people. I love that with I, in my, in my past life, back in the UK had my own marketing agency. We focused on user experience, user design, websites, branding, and my evolution went through from wanting to craft something beautiful and gorgeous and with the branding to hold on. It needs, it also needs to work, it needs to bring in the ROI and I truly believe there's somewhere in the middle that it can look good, it can look fantastic and actually work and. You know, the truth is no, nobody wants a website. What they want is a 24 7 salesperson always talking in your language, bringing people through to you. It's, it's that need. So can you talk to me a bit about what Yeah. What it is that your clients actually want when they first reach out to you? Maybe not what you know they need, but what they think they want. Well, what, what a lot of, I think ultimately. When I talk to clients, they've been \[00:04:00\] embarrassed or ashamed of their website for many years. They often, um, got into business and they were like, okay, I've gotta. Quickly get up a website. I've gotta have something up online, because that's what you do when you own your own business and people find me there. And so they, they um, they open up a Wix or a Squarespace account and they follow the templates. They pick a template that they think looks pretty, and they kind of fill in the areas of where the suggested copy would go, and it turns into a Frankenstein monster, right? Well, sometimes, I mean, it can look okay, right? Some of those templates are kind of pretty, and there's nothing wrong with Wix or Squarespace. I actually really love cloud-based builders. I think they're very easy to use. Um, but those companies are in the business of a brochure website. And so, so when you use their templates, um. You end \[00:05:00\] up with, like, you have technically you have a website, but it doesn't actually work to bring you clients. And so by the time my clients come to me a year or two or three has gone by and they, and they think back and they go, gosh, not one of my clients has found me actually through my website. Um, maybe it should be working better. Can we just talk about that difference and expand on that? Because a brochure website versus a lead generation sales website? Yes. Can you define that? For everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. So a brochure website is really. Like an online brochure. It's like you have a website, people go to your website. There's a picture of you, there's a paragraph maybe introducing you. Hi, I am Amy and I am a coach. I've got 10 years of experience and this is how I got into. You know this business. I have children. This is my dog. I'd love to \[00:06:00\] walk on the beach, like all these things right about you. And I get why this happens, why most people have brochure websites, because that's what the template told you to do, and you thought, I might as well follow their lead. They know what they're doing. They're the website. Site company. And so that's how it happens. And a, a brochure website is a place where people can potentially find you and say, oh, she is really nice. Or she's pretty, or she's smart, but they it, when they come to your website, they don't land there and go, she gets me. She understands exactly what I'm struggling with, and she is the right. Or he is the right person to solve my problem. And I'm so filled with, uh, hope and connection and this sense that I'm not alone in my struggle and \[00:07:00\] this, um. Optimism that I've found somebody who can help me finally overcome it, that I cannot wait to click on that call to action, but button and yeah, schedule a call with this person. So that's the difference between a brochure website or an actually a story driven, high converting website. So for me it sounds like it's a bit, rather it's the, the one website is a, a look at me websites rather than, Hey, let's talk about you websites. They are two different things. I mean, crumbs, I get to see so, so, so many websites with, uh, guests coming on that we check them out, see their websites, and there are so many that are 25,000 photographs of you talking about you, you, you, I'm like. I know everyone's told different things, and if it's the templates take you in a different direction. But what do they want? Why are they here? What's gonna get them to mm-hmm. I, I can't remember who said this. \[00:08:00\] Um, every single job, every single page, every single headline is not to sell or, or get the end job. It's everything has one job. Lead to the next. Get them to people to lean in. Like, Ooh, tell me more. So right. May, maybe you're gonna destroy that for me and I'm completely wrong, but can you No. Expand on No. Yeah. You, you, you hinted on the story aspect of this from your, your, your website. So can you just like start to expand into, into that world? Oh, of course. Yeah. Every story you've ever heard, every movie you've ever been to, every book you've ever read. Follows the same story formula. It always begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. And what I want your listeners to know is that you are not the hero of your own story. You are actually the guide. So if we think about. Star Wars. Um, you are the Yoda, and your customers, or your clients are Luke Skywalker. They are the \[00:09:00\] hero. They have the problem. You come in a little bit later in the story, not at the beginning. You come in a little bit later in the story as the guide. As the one who can step in and show that you can help that hero overcome the problem. And I would say 99.9% of the websites on the internet right now, the company or the founder, is making themselves the hero of their own story. And the reason we don't wanna be the hero of our own story is because the hero's actually the weakest character in the story. The the heroes. Stuck with a problem they don't know how to overcome. Mm-hmm. We don't wanna be the hero of our own story. We wanna be the strongest character in this story. And so it's a, it's a complete and total shift in how we communicate about our business. Of course, that shows up on our website, but in a perfect world, if you really wanna efficiently grow the, \[00:10:00\] changing that lens of how you talk about your business and how you view mm-hmm. Business, uh, should be infused into everything you do, whether it's a podcast interview, social media, post email marketing on your website, in-person conversation. Um, the beauty is once you, once you do the foundational work of creating your signature story. You get to use it everywhere in your business, and it's actually less work rather than more work. And the, the more you beat the same drum over and over and over and over again, that's when your marketing begins to really gain traction and you become memorable. And that's half the battle of being self-employed as just being memorable and being the first one that people think of when that problem arises for them. Beautiful. I love that. I mean, the hero's journey, it's, yeah, it covers, yeah. Every single classic out there, and it's a, it's a pro, it's a proven formula. This \[00:11:00\] is not a hack. This is, this is, yeah. This is, it's proven through so much now. Yeah. You said the, to find your signature story, some people. Don't, don't think they have a story, which is probably incorrect. It's, it's there. You just need to kind of extract it and bring it out. Yes. What are those, if we can talk about the ingredients, can you just talk about the ingredients of the, of the signature story? What are those yummy, yummy bits that are, um, like non-negotiable that, that you can help people to kind of think of? That I, I have this in the cupboard, I have this, I can make this. Mm-hmm. Yep. Um, first I just wanna share that everybody has a story. Um, the problem is we're just too close to our own selves and our own business to be able to really. Articulate it well. It's kind of like we're, we're stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label. That can only be read from outside of the bottle, and every business \[00:12:00\] owner struggles with this. It's hard to find the words that communicate what you do in a way that people can really simply and clearly understand. So it's, it's very common for me to hear. I don't really have a story or my, what if my story isn't interesting? Well. Number one, your story isn't even really about you. It's about your hero, and so I'm hoping that'll let people off the hook a little bit. You are a very important character in this story, but when I talk about storytelling, I'm not talking about. Your founder's story, that is a different type of story. I'm talking about crafting a narrative for your business that invites your potential clients into a story with you. A story where they can envision themselves as a hero in your story, and you step in as the guide who's strong, who can put your hand on their back and say, I've got you together. We'll, we'll overcome this. \[00:13:00\] And so it's a, it's a different type of story. Um, not to say a founder's story isn't important, but a founder's story isn't gonna get you more clients. The narrative I'm talking about is the, the an efficient pathway to really growing your business. But that, that can, we can struggle with that perception. That could sound to some people, like they're the same thing. I can't see the difference between, between this and that. The story that, that you go on. I mean, crumbs, let's make this real, break this apart for me because from, um, you heard me talk about podcasting earlier. Our business has evolved and it's changed over time, which many people do. That came about, and there's a story behind it because way back when we spent so much money on ads, it didn't work well for us. It wasn't aligned with us. Social media wasn't aligned with us. We turned to podcasting out of necessity, and then we found, oh my gosh, we love this. We are good at this, and we're getting better results from this. \[00:14:00\] It's a beautiful way of doing it. So we saved our business through this. And then a couple years later, people wanted us to help them. So we're like, okay, we, we can do this. So we became the the Yoda after going through the hero's journey. So with our, yes, our example, it's more we have a hero's journey where we are the hero and now we have a hero's journey. Where we are, we are the Yoda, we are the guide. Right? How do you pick apart and work out? Which, which one do we tell? Because they're both connective. They're both powerful. Yeah. Yeah. But how do you, does that make sense? It totally does. I mean, you're talking about like two different types of stories, um, and the founder's story kind of think of it like, it's like one nugget inside the larger narrative. Hmm. So, so when you talk about the ingredients of story, um. I liken this to like a big pot of chili, right? You can't pour chicken stock into a \[00:15:00\] pot and say, Hey, everybody, Chili's ready. Like, you have to have all the ingredients in there. Worst chili ever. Totally. And I'm still hungry. Um, so you've gotta have all these ingredients and when you do have each of the ingredients together. Working together. It tells a very compelling story that our brains cannot help but engage in because as humans, we are really wired for story. We've been gathering around the fireside since the beginning of time sharing stories, and so we, our brains can't help but engage. When we tell a story and the ingredients go like this, every story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. Every story begins this way. They meet a guide who has a plan, give them a plan that calls them to action, \[00:16:00\] and ultimately that story, that hero finds success and avoids failure. And that final part there. Between success and failure is what I call stakes, meaning that's how we keep people engaged in this story. Stakes are the reason when we go to a movie, we don't get up and go get popcorn midway through the movie. We don't even get up, go to the bathroom, we don't even check our phone, which is like a, a small miracle, but that's the power of a story, and that's why stakes are such an important part of every story that you ever tell. Hmm. I love steak. It should be the most important part. Sorry, I couldn't resist, but the, yeah, it's there. Within those, within those yummy, yummy stakes, there is urgency and there is value. Maybe the two most important things as a business we need to get across. I mean, that's all great. There's no urgency \[00:17:00\] and they can't see the value. It's. It's a great children's coloring book. That's the point. Yeah. So that those, those yummy steaks, that value that urgency. Is there any other ingredients to that? Or is is that really, this is what, what is in, that's the ingredients for this ingredients. You are so clever. Um. So the, when the hero, when the guide gives the hero a plan, the plan is the thing that reminds them this is not gonna be as hard and overwhelming and impossible as you might think it is. And what happens is they have an internal thought at that point, which is, I can do this. And when they have that thought. They're inspired to click on your call to action, whatever your call to action is, so people are very likely to wanna click on the call to action if they know it's gonna bring them success. They're even more likely to click on the call to action if they know it's gonna help them avoid failure, because we're constantly trying to avoid failure. And that \[00:18:00\] kind of ties in with the urgency that you're talking about as well. Like people are very, very driven to avoid failure. So we wanna create kind of a healthy tension between those two things. I love that. Look, this is, this is fascinating. I can talk about this all day long. I love these concepts and this flow, but what was it about this, this line of work, this particular angle that you were like, yes, this is how I want to serve people. This is what I want to do. This is how I want to create. What was that like? Oh my gosh. I love that question. Um, well, as I mentioned, I've been doing this. A very long time now, and I started out, um, as more of a visual storyteller, brand design, visual design, website design. And the, this is, you know, in those days I was working with large companies like Nike and Adidas and Jeff Bezos was a client at one point. And so I worked for these large companies. I learned a ton. \[00:19:00\] Um. Uh, but my heart was really with the service providers because I could really relate to them like we were all trying to make it on our own. Um, and this was back in the day when like all you needed to thrive online as a small business owner was a pretty website. Like if you had a website, you were a legitimate business. And so that's kind of what I honed in on and I, I loved creating beautiful websites and. Often, uh, my clients were basically the ones that had to provide the website copy for me. They had to give me the words that they wanted on, on their website. Yeah. And I watched time and time again. Um, my clients struggle with this part of it, and sometimes they give me pages and pages and pages of content. Um. Uh, or on the other hand, and probably more \[00:20:00\] often they'd call me and be like. I'm, I'm paralyzed, I'm stuck. I, I don't know what to say on my website. I, I've got all these kind of ideas, but when I put them down on paper, it just, it's, I'm not getting anywhere. And it was at that point that like landscape, the landscape online had changed quite a bit. Like it Mm. The markets were becoming more saturated. As you mentioned earlier in the episode, words became. Really essential, um, in telling story, right? The visuals could only get used so far. So I, I really just made it my, my mission based on watching my clients struggle. And honestly, my own business at that point was, was struggling. Like the website that had been working for me because it was so visually beautiful mm-hmm. Wasn't as effective anymore. And I was relying on referrals, which who doesn't love referrals, but they're not a very. \[00:21:00\] They're not the best way to build a consistent, it's not scalable. Right. It's not scalable and it's inconsistent. Right. Yeah. Just it's, it's hard to know. And so I just knew there had to be a better way. So I, I delved deep into story. At that point, I became one of the very first story brand guides, and that's, um, based on the book Building a StoryBrand, which is a fantastic book that I recommend everybody read. Um, but I, I really. Got deep into that framework before the book was even out. Um, and I got to learn with Donald Miller from Donald Miller and the author of that book, which was a game changer for my business, and went to workshops, traveled, read books, and just like immersed myself in it, and kind of came through that period applying what I had learned to my own business and also. To my clients and everything shifted. It \[00:22:00\] was, it was kind of miraculous, like, hold on. You went through your, your journey into the wilderness. You found a guide or a mentor along the way. This sounds familiar, right? Yes. Yes. You're a good listener. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, it's funny because it's true. I mean, that's, that's. You just hit the nail on the head. And yet I wasn't doing that necessarily intentionally. I was just kind of sharing my story. But, but yeah. And then, um, it's very meta, right? And then my clients started getting incredible results. My business started thriving. Like it just was all happening in real time and it was so effective. Um. That I've just back, I love about, I lemme just jump in there. What I love about that is the, I think this is the special source that not a lot of people talk about. The authenticity, the alignment, there's a better word. Alignment. Because again, when we \[00:23:00\] tried so different things, they didn't work for us. I mean, you look hard enough, you'll find me as a video, me with a pink cowboy hat on because one of our agencies said, here's the latest trend. We were out of alignment. The energy wasn't. Right. Your journey. Once you, um, you immerse yourself, you felt, felt called to this. Once you find that thing that doesn't feel like work, that is just so much fun, that feels good. When it feels light, it feels energizing. You will see more success. But in this day and age where we're told You need to do this, you need to do that, and it's. Ah, it feels heavy. Mm-hmm. So your journey, that lightness, I think that is maybe the special source I just wanna highlight there, which is, that's what people don't talk about, that feeling. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's so true. You know, we're all kind of following those breadcrumbs and that golden thread of our story, and in hindsight we can look back and be like, ah, yes. But in the \[00:24:00\] moment you're just like, this feels good. This feels off. You know? And you keep leaning into the things that feel good and um, and you're guaranteed to do well if you do that. I love that. So look, let's look, let's look forward because as you've, as you continue to grow and evolve and serve so many people and help them to craft their own story, not craft, see their own story, bring it out in them, what's, what's the vision for you? I mean, some people have their vision nailed down. It is perfect. They know where they're going. Others, it's, it's a bit more blurry and that's okay. There's maybe parts that are super clear. What's, what's that look like for you? What's, what are you most looking forward to? Ooh, what am I most looking forward to? You know, I just, uh, completed a book. I have a new book out called From Click to Client Nice. And I am very excited about reaching more people really through the book and really giving people the \[00:25:00\] tools that they need in order to really pull that story. Out from inside of them. Um, so that feels very exciting to me. I just launched a podcast also called From Click to Client. Um, I think it's just gonna be a big year of expansion for me, I think. Yeah. Uh, I've been, 20, 24 was a lot of. Work. And I don't say that in a heavy way. Like I love working and I love the work that I get to do every day, but it was, um, it was a fair amount of just, you know, putting my head down and working. And I feel like now 2025, I get to kind of reap the fruits of my labor. Um Mm. And, and. Enhanced my own visibility, but underneath that is really around getting to reach more people and help more people. 'cause pretty much every client-based \[00:26:00\] business owner that I talk to is struggling with this in some way, shape, or form. Yeah. So this, finding those right ingredients. So now you, with your book, your podcast, your, you know, your business inside out. You know this. It's not a fad, it's not a hack. It's a, it's something that's gonna be here for crumb's, generations to come. You get the fun part now, which is, ah, it's just about more, more visibility, more authority, being out there in the world, being seen in the right way that suits you. Um, yes. Yes. What did you say earlier? You said about the being that um, a lot of us are that, that part-time marketer, when we all get into business, we don't realize and probably is a good thing. We're not told, here's all the things we have to do else would scare us off. Um. Right. What are those tasks right now that you are maybe you are most looking forward to? Oh, I get too. Hire this, I get to outsource this. I get to stop \[00:27:00\] doing this. What is, what's changed the role for your business that is that you can see the effect of now with the things that you get to do or get to not do? Yes. You know, I, I think that, hold on, I have to cough. Um. Being self-employed can be lonely at times, and I've been self-employed for so freaking long. I'm, I'm used to it. I never consider myself a lonely person and I have a great community of people and I'm a mother and, and all of that wonderful stuff. But in the last year. I have brought two people into my team that have lightened the load for me. And, and it's such a delightful feeling to know that like, yeah, people are working on my bus business when I'm not working and this, this wheel is still moving forward. And these two women that I'm working with, one of them \[00:28:00\] is really, um. Honing in on, on podcast appearances and also finding the right people for my podcast, which I'd love to talk with you about as well. Yeah. Um, and. And then my assistant, Jamie, like, does essentially everything else, and she is really, I really rely on her. But the cool thing is just that both of these women are very positive. They're very enthusiastic. Um. They're just a joy to have in my kind of hemisphere and, uh, they make my work more fun, which, which I, I didn't expect that to happen, but yeah. That's, it's a hard thing that that first hire, it's, oh, it's terrifying. It's, um, you can make mistakes through this, and it's, you hear all the horror stories and of course, as an entrepreneur doing it all, that ability to let go of some \[00:29:00\] control is for me, oh, that was the hardest thing. But I'm, I'm curious from your perspective, it's different for everyone. What, what was that first job that you got to let go of? What was it that. E either one of them. What was the first one that you released and was like, oh, thank God, that's gone? What? What was that? I think a lot of it was focused around just maintaining my website, like keeping my website up to date. Um, I only have one offer. I just do one offer. I keep things real simple, but I have other pages, like I have my podcast page where that Stephanie, as you know, needs to be updated and, um. Email marketing is a slog in my opinion. Like I don't enjoy that work. And so offloading that felt really, really good to me. Yeah. Yeah. So those would be the two things. Nice. Yeah. And it gets to free you up to do those things that you are, that you are \[00:30:00\] good at. That o our crumbs, our job as entrepreneurs, as the business owner, do the jobs that only we can do. That should be the ultimate goal. There's systems, processes, other people, um, but where you are on your journey, I love your, there's the eagerness, there's the excitement, there's the fun of, I've got these people and it's changed everything. That is just beautiful to hear. It really is. It really is. And it feels so good. Um, I hear you. And like making that first initial step can be a little scary, a little bit daunting, but like, what I have found is that like working with my assistant. Especially Jamie, she, um, she makes my life so much better that she'll tell me like, I'm over on my hours this month, and I'm like, I don't care. Just, you know, don't worry about that. Just, you know, I don't want her to overwork, but \[00:31:00\] like, yeah, she keeps me in the loop on where she's at with her time. Um, but it's like. I don't care how much it costs. It feels so good. Is, is what I'm getting at. Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. Well, look, Kris, thank you so much for sharing not only the amazing work that you do and how you help guide entrepreneurs through this, this, the, the, the, the murky mire of the, of the story, of the language, of the messaging, um, and a bit of background of yourself. It's always fascinating. So thank you so, so much. Oh yeah. Thank you. Thank you for having me, mark. It's been really delightful to talk to you. Oh, you're welcome. And look, for those people who want to know more about you and the incredible work that you do, where can they find you? How can they reach out? Everything you would ever wanna know about me, you can find on my website@reddoorstories.com. That's \[00:32:00\] R-E-D-D-O-O-R-S-T-O-R-I-E s.com. And there you can find my book. I have a private podcast. You can learn about how I work with my clients one-on-one, where I really write your story for you. Um, I've got all kinds of free guides and good stuff for you to find there. Fantastic. Well, everyone, if you're curious or think that sounds fantastic, please go and check it out. Um, and if you want to start the conversation, say Mark sent you and just en enjoy, enjoy your hero's journey. Oh my gosh. That's what it's all about. Kris, look, thank you so much. It's been, this has been so much fun. Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Why good-looking websites still don’t convert - The simple hero/guide shift that changes everything - The one story that makes all your marketing easier - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/key ### Title: The Golden Key ### Page ID: 9137962 ### Content: # The Golden *Key* ## I'm Kris Jones. *And this is all I do.* ## Everything. *Done for you.* ### Your Story — Written For You ### A Complete Website — Written, Designed & Built ### A Complete Client-Getting System — Built & Running ### A Weekly Newsletter — Written & Sent Every Week ### Biweekly Strategy Calls — I Come Prepared, You Just Show Up ## Before. *And after.* ## What happens when *the story is right.* ## The Golden Key is built for a *very specific* person. ## Six months. *A complete business, handed to you.* ### We Learn Your Story ### We Build Your Website ### We Build Your Client-Getting System ### Your Weekly Newsletter Goes Out — Every Week ### We Check In — You Stay Focused on Coaching ## Built for the coach who's *done doing it alone.* ### The Golden Key ## Your expertise is extraordinary. *It's time people knew it.* By Invitation · Application Only · Open to a Select Few Each Year "You focus on coaching. We'll handle everything else." What happens when the right story meets the right strategy You spent decades becoming world-class at what you do. *You didn't do that so you could spend your evenings figuring out marketing.* "What would change if your entire coaching business was just… *handed to you?*" Imagine driving a brand new Mercedes off the lot — except it's your coaching business. The website is live. The words are right. The clients are finding you. Everything is working. All you have to do is show up and coach. "Marketing should not be a black box investment. It won't be if you hire Kris." I was one of the first coaches Donald Miller ever certified in the StoryBrand framework — before *Building a StoryBrand* was even a published book. I co-wrote *StoryBrand Your Coaching Business* with Donald because I kept seeing the same heartbreaking pattern: brilliant, experienced people — doctors, lawyers, executives, seasoned professionals — stepping into coaching and immediately drowning in everything that has nothing to do with coaching. The website. The messaging. The emails. The social posts. The systems. Nobody warned them that building a coaching business meant going back to school for marketing. And most of them didn't have the time, the interest, or the patience for it. **That's exactly the problem The Golden Key solves.** I become your entire marketing department for six months. My team writes your story, builds your website, creates every system you need to attract clients, and sends a beautiful newsletter to your list every single week — all in your voice, all reflecting the caliber of work you actually do. You don't learn a single new skill. You don't manage a single vendor. You don't make a single marketing decision alone. You just coach — and let us hand you the business you've been trying to build. You don't write a word. You don't manage a vendor. You don't make a single marketing decision alone. Here's exactly what gets built — and handed to you. We start by sitting down together so I can understand your expertise, your clients, and what makes your approach unlike anything else out there. Then I write your story for you — the clear, compelling words that explain what you do, who you help, and why you're the right person for the job. This becomes the foundation for everything else. You'll use these words on your website, on your calls, and everywhere your business shows up. A beautiful, professional website that actually brings you clients — not just one that looks nice. I write every word. Our team builds it. You review it, approve it, and we refine it until it perfectly reflects the caliber of your work. When it goes live, your ideal clients will land on it and think: "This is exactly who I've been looking for." You don't touch a single line of code. Think of this as the engine that runs quietly in the background — attracting the right people, warming them up, and delivering them to your calendar ready to say yes. A free resource that builds your email list. A series of emails that build trust automatically. A page that sells your offer while you sleep. All of it written, built, and running — without you lifting a finger. Once it's done, it works for you forever. Every week, a beautifully written email goes out to everyone on your list. In your voice. With your expertise. Keeping you top of mind with the people most likely to hire you — or refer you to someone who will. You read it before it goes out. That's your only job. We handle the writing, the sending, and the strategy behind every single issue. Every two weeks, we spend 15 minutes together. I tell you what's working, what we're adjusting, and what's coming next. We'll also spend time making sure you feel confident and natural on your sales calls — because the best marketing in the world only works if you can close the conversation. You never have to come to these calls with questions or ideas. I bring both. You just show up. "I made $93K in the last 3 months with my Story. This was literally the answer to my prayers. I finally have words that resonate with my ideal client and increase conversions." "I'm booked solid for the next 6 months and already making $100K above my best year ever!" "I made back 20X the investment in a weekend. This is the best money I've spent since opening my business. I'm more confident with less stress — and crushing it!" "I saw a 986% increase in conversions in the first 30 days of going live. The ROI was incredible and I saved so much time too!" "Clients are already sold before I get on the phone with them. Kris did the heavy lifting — and yet the copy is truly aligned with my voice." "More clarity means I'm closing 95% of my sales calls. It's boosted my confidence and made me feel like the expert I already am." We sit down together — you talk, I listen. I ask the right questions to understand your expertise, your clients, and what makes your approach unique. Then I go away and write everything. Your story, your words, your voice — just sharper and clearer than you've ever been able to put it yourself. I write every word of your new website. Our team builds it — beautifully. You see it, tell us what you love and what you'd change, and we refine it until it's exactly right. When it goes live, it will be the most professional thing you've ever put your name on. We build the complete behind-the-scenes system that brings new clients to you automatically — a free resource that grows your email list, a series of emails that warms people up, and a page that sells your coaching while you sleep. Once it's built, it runs on its own. You don't manage any of it. Starting in month two, a thoughtful, well-written email lands in your subscribers' inboxes every week. It sounds like you. It showcases your expertise. It keeps you top of mind. You read it before it goes out — that's your entire involvement. We write it, format it, and send it. Every two weeks, we spend 15 minutes together. We talk through what's working, what's coming next, and make sure your sales conversations are converting. You never have to come prepared. You just show up — and then go back to doing what you do best. "I take on fewer than 8 Golden Key clients per year. By design." This level of engagement requires my full attention. When I say everything is handled — I mean it. Applications are reviewed personally by Kris. Not every applicant is accepted — this works best when the fit is right for both of us. You spent years — maybe decades — becoming exceptional at what you do. The people who need you are already out there looking for you. Let's make sure they find you. And when they do, let's make sure they're already sold before they ever get on a call with you. That's what we build together. And you don't have to learn a single new thing to make it happen. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - You left a successful career — medicine, law, corporate, finance — to share what you know and help people with it. You're extraordinary at your craft. But nobody told you that launching a coaching business meant also becoming a marketer, a copywriter, a web designer, and a social media strategist. - You know you're one of the best in your field. Your clients get results that blow their minds. And yet you're invisible online — while coaches with half your experience seem to be everywhere. - You've tried to figure out the marketing yourself. You've watched the tutorials, hired the VA, posted on social media. It hasn't moved the needle — and it's taken time away from the work you actually love. - Your revenue has plateaued. Not because your coaching isn't working. Because not enough of the right people know you exist. - You're tired. You're frustrated. And if you're honest — you're a little resentful. You didn't spend thirty years building expertise so you could feel like a beginner all over again. - What you really want is simple: to show up, coach brilliant clients, and have someone else handle everything that comes before and after that call. - —Spending evenings on marketing when you should be resting — or coaching - —Invisible online despite being one of the best at what you do - —Revenue that's plateaued with no clear way to grow it - —A website that doesn't reflect the quality of your work - —Feeling like you went back to school just to run your own business - —Wondering why coaches with less experience seem to be everywhere - ✦Your entire marketing runs — and you didn't touch any of it - ✦The right clients find you, read your site, and arrive ready to say yes - ✦Your revenue is growing — predictably, consistently, without launches - ✦A website and online presence that finally match your reputation - ✦Every hour you used to spend on marketing is yours again - ✦You're known. You're sought after. You just coach. - ✦You're an experienced coach, consultant, or advisor — and you're ready to be known for it - ✦You came from medicine, law, finance, corporate, or another high-achieving career and you want your business to reflect that level of excellence - ✦You're done trying to figure out marketing yourself — you want it handled, completely, by someone who knows what they're doing - ✦You want to grow your business without learning a single new marketing skill - ✦You're ready to invest at the level your expertise deserves - ✦You're tired of being the best-kept secret in your industry - —You're just getting started and still figuring out what you offer - —You enjoy doing your own marketing and want to stay hands-on - —You're looking for a quick fix — this is a six-month commitment to building something that lasts - —You're not yet ready to invest at this level - Your complete story and messaging — written for you - Full website — written, designed & built by our team - Complete client-getting system — built and running automatically - Weekly newsletter written and sent to your list for 6 months - Biweekly 15-minute strategy and sales coaching sessions - Ongoing guidance — I bring the ideas, you make the calls - Premium website design and build — handled by our team - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/studio ### Title: The Implementation Studio ### Page ID: 9137976 ### Content: # You Read the Book. Now Let's Make Ideal Clients *Say Yes.* ## The book gave you a map. But you're still standing at the trailhead. ## I've been exactly where you are. And then everything changed. #### What happened when the message got clear: ## The StoryBrand *Implementation Studio* ## Everything You Need to Go From "I Read It" to "It's Working" ### Friday Office Hours with Kris ### The Implementation Training Library ### The Messaging Asset Template Suite ### Your AI Implementation Assistant *Trained on my brain.* ## A Complete Messaging System. Built in 90 Days. ## What Happens When Coaches Get Their Message Clear ## This Is What Changes When the Message Gets Clear #### Before #### After ## This Was Made for a Specific Kind of Coach #### This is a perfect fit if… #### This probably isn't for you if… ## Ready to Build Your Messaging System? ## Questions Worth Asking ## Your Dream Clients Are Out There. They Just Can't Find You Yet. A 90-day done-with-you program that takes the 12 strategies in **StoryBrand Your Coaching Business** and turns them into a complete messaging system — built for your specific business, ready to attract clients. $4,997  ·  90 Days  ·  Live Friday Coaching + AI Implementation Assistant You finished the book. You highlighted the PEACE framework. You wrote a first draft of your one-liner. And somewhere around Strategy #3, you ran into the question that stops most coaches cold: Reading about the StoryBrand framework is one thing. Writing your Problem soundbite — the one that makes your ideal client stop scrolling and think "that's exactly me" — is another thing entirely. The gap between knowing the strategy and implementing it for your coaching business is where most coaches stall out. That's exactly the gap this program was built to close. You know you need clear messaging. You've felt what happens when it isn't — potential clients don't reach out, discovery calls don't convert, and your website sits there like a brochure nobody reads. None of this means you're doing it wrong. It means you're trying to apply a sophisticated messaging framework to your specific business — alone — without a guide who can look at your work and say, "Here. This is how it works for you." When I first started my business, I thought the smartest move was to help everyone with everything. My website listed every service I could offer — business coaching, messaging, branding, marketing strategy, website design. I figured if I cast the widest net, I'd catch the most clients. Instead, I caught nothing. People would ask what I did and I'd launch into a long explanation about all the ways I could help. Their eyes would glaze over. They'd nod politely and never call. I was completely dependent on referrals — and they were wildly inconsistent. Some months three new clients. Other months, zero. I'd lie awake at night wondering if I'd have enough work to pay my bills. The stress was crushing — and I had zero control over when the next client would show up. When I finally applied the StoryBrand framework to my own business — when I got laser-focused on the one problem I solve and the people I serve — everything shifted: I'm Kris Jones. I was one of the first StoryBrand coaches Donald Miller certified — back before *Building a StoryBrand* was published. Since then, I've helped thousands of coaches go from overwhelmed and underpaid to fully booked and profitable. Donald calls me "the coach's coach." I co-wrote *StoryBrand Your Coaching Business* with him because I believe the hardest part isn't learning the framework — it's applying it to your specific business. That's what we do together in the Implementation Studio. A 90-day done-with-you program that takes every strategy in the book and turns it into finished, client-attracting marketing assets — built for your coaching business, ready to deploy the day you're done. Four pillars designed to take you from strategy to implementation — without the guesswork. Every Friday, bring your actual work — a draft headline that isn't landing, a soundbite you've written five ways, a social post you're not sure about. You get live, hot-seat feedback on your specific business. Real answers. Honest feedback. Not generic advice — guidance for you. Video walkthroughs of all 12 strategies from the book, plus bonus trainings that go deeper on the implementation details you won't find on the page. Designed to be watched with your laptop open and your draft in front of you. Step-by-step build sessions, not lectures. Plug-and-play templates for every asset in the book: website copy, the 15 must-have social posts, discovery call scripts, lead magnet frameworks, email nurture sequences, bio templates, and more. The StoryBrand strategy is already baked in — you fill in your specifics. The heavy lifting is done for you. This isn't ChatGPT with a prompt slapped on. This is an AI executive assistant trained on the StoryBrand framework, the 12 strategies in the book, and the exact methodology I use with coaches every day. It knows what makes a soundbite land — and what makes one fall flat. Think of it as having a StoryBrand-certified copywriter available 24/7 — at no extra cost. Every asset, written and refined, ready to put to work the day we're done. These aren't curated exceptions. This is what clarity does. "I made 93K in the last 3 months with my Story. This was literally the answer to my prayers. I finally have words that resonate with my ideal client and increase conversions. Having Kris by my side and not having to do it alone made it so efficient." "I saw a 986% increase in conversions in the first 30 days of going live! You took the time to understand my business, my customers, and me. The ROI was incredible and I saved so much time too!" "I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! This is the best money I've spent since opening my business. I'm more confident with less stress... and crushing it!" "I was not making enough, burning out and about to close the doors. Now that my business is cohesive and aligned from the inside out, I show up more confidently. Within just a few weeks, my pipeline filled up and my revenue was 40% higher than my previous highest month!" "More clarity = I'm closing 95% of my sales calls. Crafting my Signature Story helped me get clear in my own mind about what I do and how I do it. It's boosted my confidence and made me feel like an expert." "I'm booked solid for the next 6 months and already making $100k above my best year ever!" "Clients are already sold before I get on the phone with them. It was so easy for me because Kris did the heavy lifting. And yet, I was engaged in just enough to make sure the copy truly was aligned with my voice." "I immediately got two high-ticket clients after updating my website." "I wasted at least two years trying to do it on my own. If only I had invested in myself sooner. Now that I have the right words, I'm way more confident — and I use those words in everything I do!" "I read StoryBrand but didn't have the brain space to figure out how to implement it myself. Kris saved me so much time! It was really freeing. My Story brought clarity to every facet of my business." "I had that whole bottle effect where I was too close to my business and couldn't talk about it clearly. I now have a beautiful website. Our work together has definitely shortened the sales cycle for me, so that's been huge." One investment. 90 days. A complete suite of assets that works for you long after the program ends. Questions? Email us at hello@reddoorstories.com before enrolling. The gap between the coaching business you have and the one you want isn't expertise. It isn't credentials. It's the message. Ninety days from now, you'll have it — every soundbite, every asset, every word — working together to make ideal clients say yes. © 2026 Red Door Stories  ·  Kris Jones  ·  Portland, Oregon [Privacy Policy](#)  ·  [Terms of Use](#)  ·  [reddoorstories.com](#) *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - You sit down to write your website headline and second-guess every word - You're not sure if your niche is narrow enough — or if you've gone too narrow - You have a great offer, but you can't explain it in a way that makes people say "I need that" - You know you should be consistent on social — you just don't know what to *say* - You've rewritten your bio four times and it still doesn't sound like you - Some months three clients. Other months, zero. The unpredictability is exhausting. - You could hire someone to do it for you — if only it weren't $15,000+ - I doubled my rates for the same exact service because the value of my work was finally clear - Clients arrived at discovery calls ready to say yes — my website did the pre-selling - I quadrupled my income and became known in my industry for solving one specific problem - I streamlined my systems, saving 5–8 hours every week - I moved through the world with confidence because I finally had the exact words to explain what I do - I created space to be present with my newborn and afford the support I needed as a single mom - Draft and refine your PEACE framework soundbites - Write first drafts of your website copy, bio, and social posts - Review your messaging against StoryBrand principles - Apply any of the 12 strategies to your specific niche - Answer implementation questions with context-aware guidance, not generic answers - Vague website that looks nice but doesn't convert - Relying entirely on inconsistent referrals - Eyes glazing over when you explain what you do - Inconsistent income — some months great, some terrifying - Avoiding sending people to your own website - Rewriting your bio every two months - Discovery calls that feel like convincing, not closing - A website that pre-sells — clients arrive ready to say yes - Clear messaging that attracts the right people to you - A one-liner that makes people lean in and ask "how?" - Steady, predictable pipeline — you control your growth - Confidently sending every prospect to your site first - One clear, consistent story across every platform - Discovery calls that feel like a formality — they've already decided - You read *StoryBrand Your Coaching Business* and you're ready to actually implement it - You're a coach, consultant, or service provider who knows your stuff — you just can't find the words to make ideal clients say yes - You want direct, personalized feedback — not a generic course - You're willing to show up to office hours and do the work between sessions - Done-for-you pricing is out of reach, but you don't want to figure this out completely alone - You've been "too close to your own work" to write your own message clearly - You haven't read the book yet — start there first, then come back - You want someone else to do all the writing for you (that's our done-for-you service) - You're not ready to commit 90 days to building this out - You already have clear, converting messaging and a full client roster - 12 weeks of Friday live office hours with Kris (hot-seat coaching) - Full Implementation Training Library — all 12 strategies + bonus trainings - Complete Messaging Asset Template Suite - AI Implementation Assistant trained on StoryBrand + Kris's methodology - All deliverables: website copy, social posts, discovery call script, bio, lead magnet, video script, proposal template - Lifetime access to training library and templates - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/8k-year-to-8k-day-steph-weibring ### Title: From $8K a Year to $8K a Day: The Growth Strategy Behind It with Steph Weibring ### Page ID: 9205582 ### Content: # From $8K a Year to $8K a Day: The Growth Strategy Behind It with Steph Weibring From $8K a Year to $8K a Day: The Growth Strategy Behind It with Steph Weibring $8K in a year. Then $8K in a month. Then $8K in a single day. That's the arc of Steph Weibring's business growth. And none of it came from paid advertising. It came from **putting a great product in front of the right people**, one relationship at a time. It's the kind of progression that sounds simple in hindsight. But there's a real strategy behind it, and Steph lays it out clearly in this conversation. In the new episode of the *From Click to Client Podcast*, I'm sitting down with **Steph Weibring, founder of Joy Creative Shop**, a multimillion-dollar business that started while staying home with her first baby. **If you've been watching your efforts plateau and wondering what's actually missing, this one is worth a listen.** Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Kris:** Steph Weibring, welcome to the show. I am so delighted to have you here today. Steph is the founder of a company called Joy Creative Shop. It is a stationary and gifting brand out of Texas, and she's also started kind of a new gig, called a different kind of CEO. So we're going to get into both of those things. **Steph:** Thank you. Thank you so much for, for having me on. I'm so thrilled. **Kris:** So tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do. What's your backstory? **Steph:** Sure. So I, I would say, I wouldn't say serial entrepreneur, but I'm like an entrepreneur through and through. I never, outside of being 16 and working like jobs when you were younger, I've always worked for myself. I was \[00:01:00\] raised by entrepreneurs, so it was kind of built into my DNA and then once college was ending and I was like, well, what, you know, what's my path? I was that idea of working for someone, I was like, I don't know. That doesn't really seem like the best idea. So. I started a greeting card line in college just for fun. Got a little bit of traction on it and, enough to where I was like, you know what? I'm gonna take, this is a perfect time to take a chance on entrepreneurship, right outside of school, had my parents' support and you know, a little bit of like a cushion, if you will. so yeah, so I, that was my first taste of it back in the early two thousands and truly never looked back. so now it's joy Creative Shop is my. Full-time, direct to consumer e-commerce business. And then the idea of taking some of that knowledge of what I've learned over the past a lot of years into, some coaching, consulting and like, you know, working with others to help them build what they love. And that's really more than anything of like a life that they love and work that doesn't feel like work. You know, just waking up excited for what they, they want to do with their day and get to choose. Yeah. And **Kris:** you know how that feels. \[00:02:00\] I do. Because you've never been employed officially, right? **Kris:** Yes. Yeah, it's really rare. I totally relate to that. I started my first business at the age of eight. I just showed my partner, my first business cards **Kris:** Back then. My mom let me. Print my own business cards. And anyway, I did end up being employed for a few years in my twenties, but I, I always knew that entrepre entrepreneurship was my path. That was where, yeah. Immediately when I made that shift, I just knew like, oh, I'm home. This is, yeah, **Steph:** this is, this is where I'm meant to. Yeah, this is for me and I do, I think there's so much value in working for someone, especially in the field that you'd want to learn from, especially now. So like if I were 20, I would be getting a unpaid anything with a top founder. That's. You know, do doing all the things to learn from for a few years or a startup in that way, and then go on your own if that's your call. But back then, it wasn't that long ago, but it was long enough ago that this wasn't \[00:03:00\] really the same. yeah, I'm, I'm all for either path. I just, you know, I did what felt right at that time and thankfully never had to look back. **Kris:** yeah. Joy Now, joy Creative Shop is a multimillion dollar company. Am I right? **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah. So tell, walk us through how you went from college student mm-hmm. With a, with a fun idea. **Kris:** To a multimillion dollar business like that. That's an incredible journey. I wanna hear. **Steph:** I know it's probably something I need to stop and reflect on more often, so when you say it, I'm like, that sounds amazing. Oh yeah, we have done that. I would say. One, I started in paper outta college and then zigzagged a few times. You know, like nothing. I always was able to support myself, but it wasn't anything significant and then really thought I'd stay home with my babies. But again, once you have that creative itch or the brain for entrepreneurship, it's, it's almost impossible to like turn off fully. Yeah. And when you tell it that you're gonna take a pause, you go into overdrive. Not today. Not today \[00:04:00\] lady. So, I kind of thought when my daughter, our oldest was born, I was just stay home and, you know, really relish motherhood, which I did. But then I also had that same feeling at the same time of okay, well now what am I now what? And so like a lot of things I was making stationary for her just for fun and was like, well I'm gonna make an Etsy shop. It was, you know, Etsy was kind of new at the time. It was very easy, low barrier entry. And I'm just gonna put my designs with my very below average photography online and see what happens. 'cause you would you get that feedback from people of like, oh, I would. Love that. Would you make that for my daughter when she's born? And so you're like, okay, there's a little bit of a demand for it. Nothing crazy, and then put it up on Etsy. Genuinely did not think much about it. But as I'm sure as you know, it's like you hear one cha-ching on your phone from a sale and you're like. Now I'm obsessed. How do I, how do I get more of that? And so it was a very, very slow burn, very like organic growth over the years. I was motherhood mainly with a little bit of time to carve out and then it would start to \[00:05:00\] shift. I would say a few years, maybe four or five years in where it was like during the holidays especially, I was like, oh gosh, this is, I don't know that I'd say like, this is a legitimate business, but it's growing to where I'm really busy and not sure that I can handle all the things. the story I tell is like, I, we went from 8,000 annually to 8,000 in a month, which again, these are really small numbers, but when you're, this is like a little side hustle, you're kind of like, oh, well, that actually like. I put my head down, little intention behind it. A little bit of influencer marketing paired with. All that focus, and I went from what I did all of last year and did that in one month this year. Okay. Well that's something, you know, it just gives you a little boost of confidence to think like, okay, I could actually turn this into a business. And so from that point, again, focus being probably the. The biggest barrier for a lot of people is like, I just put my head down and I was like, this has to work. I really want this to work. I want this to be my main job. and so over the years it got to probably about six figures, you know, mid fix six figures. And I was like, I wouldn't say over my head, but my \[00:06:00\] creative side was like, well, I don't know if we know all the things to run a business approaching a million dollars in sales. and so I, a friend of mine was like. Uh, my husband just sold a company. You should talk to him. I was like, well, that's amazing. I would love to, I'm happy to talk to anyone, but you know, I make stationary. I'm not really sure that that is like, we're gonna align. And long story short, we sat down, I told him all about what I'm doing and all the dreams I had about some other ventures. And, ended up becoming partners about a year later. And very I feel like it wasn't. I would've never sought someone out. And so when we did meet up, there was that business dating of like, okay, he has some skill sets that I don't have. And then he was feeling the same about, okay, she has some opportunity that I would maybe love to be a part of. And so we, it's almost five years now of working together. And so that was the point of scale, if you will, of someone maybe not believing, I always believed in myself, but planted that seed of like, this could be something more. Do you want that? Like, it might be a little tricky. It might be harder or more stressful or, but like it could really be something. And so, once \[00:07:00\] he planted that seed, I was like, oh, I think I do. You know, and I, I probably will need some help to get there. And I was very, 'cause motherhood is my priority right now. I'm still very much in it with three at home. So be, to be able to grow a business and. Be the primary caretaker was, I needed some help. **Kris:** yeah. Before you and Ty partnered together, you took it from 8,000 in a year to 8,000 ish per month mm-hmm. On your own prior to bringing, so how did you, how did you fill me in on how to mm-hmm. How you went from. Eight k per year to eight K per month. **Steph:** Yeah. So, my, the short answer is influencer marketing. I had had, it was the holiday season, so again, a great time for gift guides and things like that. And I had a friend in Dallas that I knew that had a successful gift guide within her blog and, you know, her social pages. And so she had shared about us organically a little bit and you could see, that traction of like, oh, when \[00:08:00\] someone else, the way I describe it is we can talk about us all the time. When someone else talks about us is when you really see that snowball effect and now it's blown out of the water with UGC and content and all of it. But back then, even, I asked to pay to be in her gift guide. You know, it was probably $500, which again, that's a lot when you're not making a ton and saw the immediate correlation between that and so. One, working directly with her and then seeking out others in a very authentic, organic, relational way. Where these are relationships I still have. Like they're not transactional. We care about each other, both businesses, you know, the blog or the content creator and us care about each other. And so, that was really our first. Big lever for growth. and it stayed that way probably for another, once Ty and I partnered another year or year and a half before we introduced like paid marketing, so we were solely organic probably till about a million. And then we're able to turn on, the paid to, to really scale. **Kris:** \[00:09:00\] And then how did you find the other influencers? Was that really just you're online or did you have a strategy for how you found the right people? Yeah, the right influencers. **Steph:** Yeah. no strategy. And I feel like the more we put strategy in place, the more I'm like, can we undo this and go back to our natural way of doing it? And there's good and bad to both. You need it to scale, but you lose a little bit of something in the middle. So I would genuinely, Look on social, I'd find influencers that we either worked with or that I enjoyed their, content and what they were, you know, they aligned with us in some way if it's values or aesthetic. And then I would either reach out to them personally just saying like, Hey, we love what you do. We just saw you had a baby. We would love to make you some stationary, and you very rarely got a no. Every once in a while you'd get an ignore, and that's. Fine. Especially now dms are like, I don't even know how people, **Steph:** find their messaging in dms anymore. But back then, before the many chats of the world, like they would usually see it and they'd usually say yes. And so all we would do is gift them. Just gift them something and then. More than likely they would share about it. And then I would say \[00:10:00\] there was a few like token influencers that were per, that were customers of ours first before we even knew they were a customer. I remember one day I was at home, I was like manufacturing at home, all the shipping from home still, and my mom was helping me and my phone was on and all my notifications were on and it was like cha-ching back to back. I was like, something's glitching. Like something's wrong, Etsy's breaking. I don't know. So I'm like on Instagram, can't find any like proof of life, like what is happening. And then someone messaged us and they're like, my favorite influencer just shared about you. And I think she had 700,000 followers at that time. And this is years, I mean, five, six. Six years ago maybe. And so it was like, I dunno, seven to $8,000 in sales in one day. One day. So here we are, back at that 8,000 in a year, 8,000 in a month, and then we're doing 8,000 in a day. And I was like, my mind is exploding. I don't know what's happening. I don't know what's happening. **Steph:** So I would just find people through comments. I'd see what other people are commenting. A lot of influencers, support influencers, their friends, \[00:11:00\] and so. It was a, there was no strategic play there. It was like, let's find friends, people that we think we'd be online like best friends with, and let's get our product in their hands and see what happens. And I love it really has worked until now. I mean, that is still a big part of our play. and I feel like it's more impactful than the paid. Yes, we can pay someone. **Kris:** Yeah. Right. And then, uh, once Ty came into the mix what have you learned from him and what, what has he brought to the table for you? **Steph:** Absolutely. So he and I, while we were kind of talking about maybe working together both, I went outta town with a friend and brought a book with me and then sent him a picture and it was, rocket Fuel and it's the Visionary Operator model in that book. And I was like, oh my gosh, I am. The visionary like this, I've never, I never knew what I was, I just wore all the hats. So I was like, and then I read this description and I was like, this is me. My brain is like in the clouds all over the place. So many ideas. And what it kept stressing was having the operator to really like. Take what you are \[00:12:00\] envisioning and then work on it. And so I sent him a picture. He's like so funny. He's like, I bought that book yesterday. And I was like, Ooh, okay. Interesting. You know, just like all the little signs were aligning. And so he brought one, we worked together on an executive coaching relationship first. And so I trusted him. I trusted his advice. I knew he'd done bigger things in a different industry. We'd also taken the personality test to show that we are on very opposite spectrums of personality types, but then work really well and overlap in a lot of areas. So he has brought one organization structure, you know, a lot of the systems in place and he's also really helped to manage our team. And that was one, a huge risk to me. We didn't have a very big team when he started and I was like, well, I need to make sure that you treat my girls like I do. And he. 1000% did. But we, you know, had a little trial partnership period so that I could make sure that I liked how it felt, and he was game for that and very open with that. And I really, really respected and appreciated that I, I felt good about every step of the way. So he's brought \[00:13:00\] all the structure that I lack into it as well as, like, I tell him, I'm like, you're kind of like a yes guy. I'm like, Hey, can we do this? He's like. Yeah, let's try it. You know, where I might have overthought it or stressed about it. And so he gave me, I wouldn't say permission, but he helped me to be assured in areas that I felt like were worth a try. We'd go look at it, the analytics and the data, and make sure it makes sense to a point. But some of it's just like a gut feel. And he would always support that decision just to test it. And then if we saw like, okay, this could work, we can then go really dig into, How it will work and how we can do it at scale. But he's brought a really strong sense of, he made me believe in what is the bigger version of like, where we are now, which I'd never thought, I just never even dreamed that big to be on, you know, to be honest. So it's been really great. **Kris:** And where are you now? Like how would you describe. **Kris:** do you have a headquarters and you've got a full-time team? Does he work full-time or part-time? **Steph:** Yeah, he is probably a little more than part-time. Okay. He does, you know, he has a couple things that he does, but we, we get a big \[00:14:00\] chunk of his week. we have I say it's a headquarter headquarters. We have a cute little office in Dallas that has, we, we refinished the front to be like a stationary shop. So we're open a couple days a week. Our team is mainly virtual. Some days I love that 'cause the flex with motherhood. Other days I miss that. I would love to be around people more, but I know that this phase of life is so tricky. So some of our team that is in Dallas, we try to meet up just as often as we can. we have seven team members now. So again, it's a really nice sized team. It's pretty lean. We don't have a lot of excess. We do work with a few agencies, for some of the bigger, like the paid marketing and all of that. But, We're at a really, we're at a really cool point to where. We've proved out that we're legit. You know what I mean? And I do forget quite often how far we've come. So we are where I know a lot of people dream about being still not where I have ended. Like I still have a runway that we wanna get to. And, it's been amazing. It's been really challenging because the growth is so different at this type of a level. You know, if we're talking incremental numbers now and percentages and not like. I \[00:15:00\] was so spoiled. We were like a hundred percent growth for years. **Steph:** And then you get used to that and then you're like, wait 30. I was like 30 amazing stuff. This is good. I'm like, well, I know I'm just used to something different. So we're at a point of, in kind of an inflection point where one, it's challenged me as a leader learning some new skills, thinking in a very different way than I did in the beginning. I'm thankful for that 'cause I really do love the business side of things as well as the creative. But also, wouldn't mind some of those easier days where you're like, oh, this was easy. Oh, we did that and that made a huge impact. So, but it's been, it's like they say, it's the journey of like figuring things out and then knowing where I need the most help has been the most important piece to like, I can be the bottleneck for sure. So like, how do I get out of the way? Let the other, let the people that know more than me do that. And, yeah, but it's been, it's been amazing. **Kris:** I am curious what's like the biggest thing that you've learned? Like the, the obvious answer in my brain would be letting go of control. Like when \[00:16:00\] things are, are small and this is your baby, right? It's your fourth child. You have three kids. This is like your fourth. Yeah, it's baby. I think. That letting go of control would be really hard. But I'm curious, like, yeah. Looking back on this, like what has been as the founder of the company mm-hmm. And now the leader of the company. Mm-hmm. What's been the thing you've learned? The biggest thing you've learned? **Steph:** Yeah, I think letting go of control is one. I am sure you ask every control freak and they're like, well, I'm not very controlling. Both, I am when it comes to this, but I think, and this goes for personal and professional and therapy is like I, I'm a big believer in therapy and coaching and getting guidance from others. And something that was brought to my attention early on in motherhood was to lower my standards. And some people might say like, well, that's ridiculous. I only want things to be a certain way. but when I did it in motherhood, it was such a freeing okay, I'm still gonna have the birthday party, but it's not gonna be Pinterest perfect. It's gonna be Chick-fil-A on a tray with some chips, and we're gonna play in the front yard, but it's \[00:17:00\] good enough. And so for work, I think letting go of that ideal, some of the details that really don't matter. That was the hardest part for me of letting go of like, I remember asking our first fulfillment center and printer. I was like, well, do you use like t can I, can we use mint green tissue when we package? And they're like, well, no, we don't do that. We ship for thousands of companies. And I was like. Oh, that's gonna be a deal breaker. And then sure enough, no one asked for the green tissue. Like it was fine. So lowering my standards in a way that's still, like we have very high standards for our product, how it's made and the customer experience, but we'd much rather take care of our customer in a way that they feel it than a detail that. I might love to include a little something, and it's probably unnoticed, to the customer, but it makes it the most efficient way for us to do our job really well. So if that makes sense. It's like a little bit of control, but really like a level of perfection of like letting go of that to saying like, okay, this is good enough because it checks all our boxes. **Steph:** And at the end of the day, we care about our customer getting what they ordered. As fast as possible, \[00:18:00\] you know, to be able to re-gift it as fast without having to repackage and all the things. So, that's been the most, I would say, challenging part, but also then realizing really quickly how impactful it is. Yeah. And so then you buy in fully. You're like, okay, this, this makes sense, the mint green tissue, like maybe we'll bring it back in a few years. I still won't let it go. Yeah. But I'm like, it didn't. It was my preference. Right. It wasn't, it wasn't making a difference to the consumer. **Kris:** so glad you shared that. 'cause I think a lot of people here today can really **Kris:** Relate to that. And I think when you talk about the bottleneck, like that becomes the bottleneck when you are in the weeds with those kinds of details that don't actually. Make that big of a difference. Yeah. But certainly matters to you. Yes. Honestly, the mint green tissue would matter to me. Like, I would be like, whoa, so so **Kris:** But but the quality of the product really matters. And this idea of like, good enough, it's good **Steph:** enough, and in time, like I do believe we can get back to tissue, we, we moved. Fulfillment in print \[00:19:00\] houses this past year. A huge, like year long, really big challenge for us in a great way. But we've got to a place where now we are the only brand this company fulfills for in this way. Mm-hmm. So if we do want to add in these things that we've shelved and we, we call it like a parking lot, like they're not gone forever. They just might not be what's the priority right now. And so we might be able to bring back those things to where they still matter to us. The cost of them doesn't totally turn, you know, our, our order and revenue and margin upside down. But we're able to do that. And again, at the end of the day, it's how our team communicates to our customer in a negative situation of like an order arrive late. Like those are our non-negotiables. Those are the standards we will never. Adjust. So on the things that we have to like, okay, what can we give a little? Yeah. That's where, you know, those things have come in and they're, it's hard for someone that's visual and a creative I want the big fancy pre-printed boxes, but then you do the math and you're like, well, then we'd have to charge more, and is that really worth, you know, so it's been fun \[00:20:00\] to learn, learn and implement and then see if it trusting, if the choice you made actually works out. **Kris:** I'm curious. you know, I've been, I've been on Etsy for a long time, you know? Mm-hmm. As a shopper. **Kris:** And I feel like it's come a long way. Mm-hmm. I feel like it's really, it kind of went through a period where I was like, are they gonna make it? Like, is the online space gonna kind of trump Etsy and it's gonna kind of dwindle? But they figured it out and I feel like they're better than ever. Yeah. And I just, I loved that they're. Continuing to fulfill their vision of helping creative people and their creations get into the hands of people all over the world. So For sure. Are you, have you guys, you've pivoted away from Etsy, I'm assuming, but maybe not. **Steph:** We do have both. We kept it. So we are mainly, Shopify is our main source of revenue. but Etsy's significant enough. Not to leave. Yes. If that makes sense. Yeah. Like it's, it's a good chunk of \[00:21:00\] revenue. they have evolved, which is so great, but they still at the heart are a platform for someone like my daughter. She's 16 now, but when she was 11, started an Etsy shop. 'cause she could and I was able to talk her through. **Steph:** And 'cause it's a marketplace, people will organically find you without. All the dollars of ad spend and all the, the sponsored posts and things. Right. So at its core, I believe it's still the same. I know you would probably get a ton of different opinions from people that have been on. It's, it's definitely different for us than it has been in past years. Yep. But, but the platform itself is a very low barrier place to take an idea or a dream or something you just wanna test out. Yeah. And just put it up for, I think a listing is still 20 cents. If that makes sense. Yeah. For 20 cents you can put your product out into the world and like see what happens. And for me it. Truly changed my whole life that, that platform, **Kris:** Yeah. okay. Let's shift gears a little bit. Yeah. Tell, tell us about a different kind of CEO that this is your new offering. **Kris:** And how did you come into this type of work? Obviously you've got the chops for it, but **Steph:** yeah. Well, thank \[00:22:00\] you. I hope so. Yeah. That's my, my goal is, and dream is to, is to help others. So it's been, it's been in my brain for many years and I feel like I actually use this skill and do the coaching, but it's always been for people I know. Or someone that was like, Hey, it's the pick your brain type of, and I've loved it 'cause I haven't had the capacity prior to now to do more and to give more of my time to others. And so I would do it for fun. And then just over the last year it got to be like an overwhelming. Almost like a pull, like a purpose of like, I know I have what it takes to help someone change their life, whatever that means. And if that means giving them just the vote of confidence to follow what they believe they're called to do, or tactical skills to like, let me help you. So a different kind of CEO came up because when Ty and I first started working together, he was like, well, we have to do an org chart. And I was like, what is that? I do not know these things. And he is like, well, all of our team, they, we need titles. And like that gives them a sense of like who they are. And I was like, okay, great. And he was like, so you're the CEO? And I was like, oh, I don't think \[00:23:00\] so. No, I don't. He is no, you are. I'm like, I don't really want to be that. Like, I don't know what that means. And so I was like, well, I mean, I have to be, I am the only option for us in this, so how can I. Build out what a CEO looks like, but make it really authentic to me. And so the way I describe it is it's a lowercase CEO. We're not CI **Steph:** we're not C-suite stuff. There is no ego involved. And I even use like descriptive words of like casual, encouragement, opportunity, like those are, that's how I describe what I am too. One our company and two to others. Like, I'm not gonna come in and be like, what you're doing is terrible. I'm just going to, I'm gonna nudge you and hopefully move you in the right direction to where you gain some traction, a little confidence. So there's all the, all the words that coincide with the letters of CEO, but if you envision it lowercase, that's kind of a good feel for what I'm hoping to build. And I think at the end of the day, it's less about me knowing a lot to then tell someone else. What to do, but more really encouraging someone to \[00:24:00\] take the first step, take the next step to, okay, you have something. And like I had lunch with a friend and you'll appreciate this. And this is where I, I got a little bit of the confidence 'cause I, I need it too. This is a new venture. There's all the fears and the insecurities around it, but, I was, she was like, I wanna build something now that in five years it's when I'm ready to move on to the next thing. It's kind of, I talk about the seed being planted. She planted the seed five years prior and then when it's time, if her kids are grown or they're out of the school, she's working and she can then go do something different. And so, we had this really great lunch and she left and she is like. I can't get it out of my head. This like the way you described what and the way I, what I told her was, what would you do if you have five extra hours a week? Like you don't need to dedicate 20 hours, but like an hour a day during your school week if you woke up an hour earlier, or what if you chunked out a five hours on a Saturday for just you to dream? What would you do with it? And so I wasn't thinking much about what I said. Just said it and she was like, it's completely changed how I'm thinking about, like it's not overwhelming. It's very \[00:25:00\] digestible. I'm spending, so it gave me the boosted confidence to say like. Again, I'm, I don't think I'll be the most structured person ever, but like I do have some structure around how I coach and we do, there's some clarity sessions that are really just a one time like, let's sit and chat through what you're thinking about and let me give you as much of my brain and knowledge and resources and then here's a roadmap and move you on your way. Come back if you need me, but like there's no obligation. And then the idea for more consistent of like a business coach changed my. Life in my business and doesn't have to be millions of dollars a year, but enough to where I was making an investment in myself, I had to answer the call. I had to make time for that call, and then I had to do the homework and the work. and so there's a couple offerings that I would love to just kind of build and grow in time. And I really don't have a timeline for this. Like I'm doing it naturally already. And I do know as my time becomes more available in mine. This will grow with that, but I really feel passionate about being able to serve in that next, I'm not old, but getting \[00:26:00\] older and like in that next phase of life where I do have a little bit more time to give and help others with what I've learned. **Kris:** yeah. Oh my gosh. Uh, I love what you shared about like, what if you just had five hours. Per week to dedicate to this. Yeah. It doesn't have to be, I think our brain loves to serve up ways. This cannot be possible right now. **Kris:** Like next year. Next year. And then sure enough, five years go by. Yeah. And nothing's happened, but a so much can be done in an hour a day so **Steph:** Yeah. And and Joy Creative Shop was built that way. 'cause I had. I had one baby, another baby a few years later, a third baby, and I was working in the margin. Uh, and that's why there was no pressure. Luckily, I, financially, there wasn't pressure to like have to perform, but I was able to, I call it like piddling, like I was kind of piddling tinkering, but when I was ready to turn it into something. All the foundation was there, and that's where I think that mindset is so important of like just carving out one, it's not selfish. It's \[00:27:00\] so, so needed. For me, it was essential. You know, I had to have some time and work was my hobby and kind of still is. And, so I, I just nudge and urge people to just like, if they have something, weigh in on them, like there's no perfect time, but just finding little incremental. And I think an airplane ride for me is like the best gift I can give myself. I'm locked in a chair, I have like only a few hours, and so what am I gonna do At that time, you know, some people are like, watch a movie. I was like, oh no, you have not met me yet. I'm like, my brain is on. Overdrive of like, I have quiet time to, to dedicate to **Steph:** Whatever's next. And trust me, my brain is full of the what's next for me. In addition to like the coaching and, and hopefully it's in addition to Joy Creative Shop. You know, I don't have like an end game for that, and I know a lot of people do, but if it supports the lifestyle that I've built and gives revenue and finances to our family when we need it, like. There's no reason why it wouldn't continue on. And then if I can take those five hours a week, take my own, you know, a dose of my own medicine, of like what, what's \[00:28:00\] possible for the future if I start building in a little bit of that time towards something else. **Kris:** If somebody were talking to you and they had this idea like, I really wanna start this new thing or this side gig, or I'm employed and I wanna get going with, with this passion project. **Steph:** Yeah. I would. Definitely don't quit what you have. I would listen to a podcast that was like, if someone's paying you to do your job, and then you can still in the the before and after and weekends do something else, please let that continue until it's not necessary. So don't ever stress yourself. Finances and money will be the first thing to ruin an idea. Because of the stress of having for it to, happen on your timeline. but I would think is like a lot of research and a lot of reading, a lot of like thought around what it, what, how, like what do I want to do with this? What does this mean to me and is it because I want. Something to fill some time, something to generate income, something to give back if it's like a nonprofit. So really aligning \[00:29:00\] what it is that you want out of that venture. And then the most important step, and the, the step I think is the hardest is like take some kind of action on it. **Steph:** If it's paying a business coach and you have nothing to show for a business yet you are actively. Working on that thing a few hours a week because you have someone holding you accountable. Like do that. If it's paying Shopify $30 a month to have a website. So that you have some place to start building out, like, I think writing things down is hugely important for documentation. I think now with social, I'm like, man, if I were starting over, it would look so different. But you would document every ounce of the process. So before you have anything to show, you have a year's worth of what got you to that? Like I would give anything to have that now that wasn't, it wasn't a thing then. Yeah. but then you're, now your social page is full of, you're viral before you even launched something. 'cause people are invested in like the building of **Steph:** As silly as it sounds, and sometimes it's not gonna work out, and oh, maybe you've embarrassed yourself and people saw that you failed, but like, \[00:30:00\] I bet those posts do better than the ones that you were super successful with. **Steph:** Because they're relatable, everyone's gone through it in some way. So taking action and then I would say documenting as much as possible. **Kris:** I got it. Got it. Cool. Yeah I agree with you. Hiring a coach, getting outside perspective. Yeah. To keep you from all the rabbit holes. **Kris:** That you can go down and keep you focused, give you guidance, give you encouragement, keep your head clear. **Kris:** on yourself, and I think a lot of people early on. Or if they're just at the beginning of an idea, they think, oh, this isn't legitimate enough yet. Yeah. And I need to wait till I'm really making good money before I can invest in that. Yeah. And when you are inside the bottle, you cannot read the label. That can only be read on the outside. So **Kris:** Get a coach and if that coach is chat, PT let your coach be chat PT. **Steph:** Totally. There's so many resources now, but I think the accountability piece of someone that's waiting for you on a phone call or, you know, \[00:31:00\] something that's on your account, it's like a workout. Like it's much more likely to happen if you've got someone on the other end waiting for you. But, oh man, I'm Claude Chat, GPT. Like, we're tight. And it's really just to kind of talk through. Thoughts and ideas and to document, because like, they're not giving me all the answers, but I do have this record of going back when I had that first idea and I plugged it in. What, you know, so I, I think it'll be easier to, to document in the future. Because chat, I use Google Docs. In the beginning I just put all my thoughts on paper. Yeah. and no one ever wrote back or had any feedback. Now you're **Steph:** oh, okay. I could probably do this a little faster. Yeah, a little easier. And the same, same for a coach, I think. That person that's just, even if they're five steps ahead of where you want to be. **Steph:** It will make that time go so much faster and so many less problems that you might encounter without guidance. And that was the first thing my coach asked. She's like, okay, tell me all about your business. And I was like, why manufacture? I print everything at home. And she was like, why? I'm like, why what? She was like, why would you do that? Why would you print yourself and cut \[00:32:00\] and ship? And I was like, well, I didn't. I genuinely had never even thought that that was an option not to. Because I was making something that had someone's name on the top. So I'm like, well, who prints one notepad? I'm like, one quick Google search later. Sure enough, **Steph:** There are the printers, wholesale printers that do that. And the, her asking me that such an obvious question, **Steph:** Was like, oh, I, I never thought that. Thank you so much for asking. 'cause now I'm gonna go spend a little time and it's, it's so hard to quantify and I will tell you, I like, I'm not frugal by any means, but like I think about every dollar that we spend or I spend and just had a call with her earlier today. 'cause I kind of brought her back into the mix of, you know, needing some encouragement during a growth season and, she gave me like one little nugget that. Could change so much about what's upcoming and it was about paid media and you just don't know. It's like sometimes you get it from someone you know that's done that sometimes, but that paid person that's always \[00:33:00\] going to, you're gonna show up to that call. Like I, I feel like when you look back at the year or the six months, you're like, oh my gosh, man, that was worth tenfold of what I spent. **Kris:** A hundred percent. Yeah. There's no way I would be doing the work that I'm doing without Same. **Kris:** a, a key, a few key coaches, a few for that I worked with over the years, right? Yep. My first coach, I had never invested in my own self and my ownness. And that was a big deal. And he had me audit my time. That was my homework, auditing my time and really, **Kris:** You know, taking control of that and figuring out where am I leaking time. Yeah. What's worth my time. and then later it evolved. Different coaches, different time. Yeah. But I'm such a big believer in that. And I think, and you've touched on this a little bit, but it's so often it's not that the coach has. All the answers, it's that they can ask you the right questions. **Steph:** A thousand percent. And they're listening. Yeah. Yeah, they're listening. It's just like a therapist. They just sit and look at you and they nod, and then they say one thing and you're like, \[00:34:00\] why not? Why not think of that? **Steph:** But they, all they did was they were able to process, it just steps removed from the situation. And I, I think the listening part is such a. Big part. 'cause you know, when you're having lunch with a friend, you're just both chitchatting. But their job is to listen first, and then they're asking the right questions. Right. And you're usually going to answer for yourself. You're gonna answer and problem solve within that conversation. Maybe they can add to it or maybe, but they're gonna probably ask you about it the next time. And so there you've gotten an answer from a question that no one would've asked you, and then they're gonna hold you accountable to be like, well, did. Did you do that thing we talked about? And you could say, no, sometimes it happens. No, I didn't get to it. And then if you don't, that's on you. And then if you do, then it's like, okay, now we get to sit and watch and see what, yeah, the fruits of that, like labor, that, that relationship. But, I've never met anyone that said, I, I will say consultants. I've heard so much mixed and, and I feel the same way. So many people that know so much. But if they're not actually gonna do the work with \[00:35:00\] you, and maybe even for you in some capacity, depending on the relationship, it's. It just hasn't been successful in my book, but I've never met anyone that was like, oh, I hired a business coach and it was bad. **Steph:** They're like, my life changed, my business changed, my personal life changed. You know, I was able to get my time back. So yeah, I'm well. **Kris:** Yeah, and, and honestly, if you do that, if you, if you work with the right coach, the investment should and will pay for itself tenfold. **Steph:** Or before you're even done with the project, you're like, you know, like I said, that little piece of information, I'm gonna go act on it probably tomorrow and then I'll get to see. But pretty sure that would've paid for today's phone call, if that makes sense. **Kris:** So Steph, I wanna thank you for being here. I'd love to hear like, where can my listeners find you online? **Steph:** Of course. Yeah. So, joy, creative Shop for all, all the paper goods and stationary and gift gifting essentials, is where we live online. Same for social and then a different kind of ceo.com. And same with social is where. My goal \[00:36:00\] is to continue to build that personal brand, little pieces of wisdom on social, and then the offerings for coaching of just figuring out how I can help whoever finds me, if that timing aligns of like how I can best serve them in whatever they are hoping and goaling to do. **Kris:** Beautiful. You have, yeah, you have such a heart to help your people and thank you. It's such a. Badass background behind you. It's really, thank you. Appreciate it. Really impressive. So Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - How Steph used **influencer marketing to scale to seven figures** before spending a single dollar on paid ads - The **business partnership model** that helped her go from creative founder to strategic CEO - Why **"lowering your standards" in the right places** is one of the most important things you can do to grow - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/donald-miller-storybrand-website ### Title: Donald Miller Called This “One of the Best StoryBrand Websites”—Here’s Why ### Page ID: 9244705 ### Content: # Donald Miller Called This “One of the Best StoryBrand Websites”—Here’s Why Donald Miller Called This “One of the Best StoryBrand Websites”—Here’s Why **She's a former prosecutor, an MSNBC legal analyst, and a certified divorce coach.** Truly brilliant. On paper, her background is the kind that makes people lean in. But her website wasn't converting. Not because her credentials weren't real, they absolutely were. Because the site wasn't telling a story that resonated with her ideal clients. The following week, Donald Miller reviewed her new site inside his $25,000 mastermind and called it "**arguably the best website I've ever seen for a coach or consultant.**" Let me walk you through the entire transformation in this week's episode of *From Click to Client*. The before-and-after, every change we made, and why it worked. If you've ever looked at your site and thought "this should be working better than it is," this one's worth your time. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Speaker:** If you have a website and you're not getting the clients you want from it, this episode is for you. Today, I'm gonna do something I haven't done before on the show. I'm gonna take you inside a real client transformation, showing you the before site. And the after site and walking you through exactly what changed and why. My client, Susan, is a former lawyer, turned divorce coach. She spent 30 years in law, including time as a prosecutor and a TV legal analyst on M-S-N-B-C. She came to me with a website that listed all of that,But it still wasn't connecting with the people she most wanted to help Susan has generously given me permission to use \[00:01:00\] her transformation as a teaching example on the show today. So I'm so grateful. She's also part of Donald Miller's mastermind. He's the author of Building a StoryBrand. And because she was in that mastermind, he reviewed her website inside. So to be in his mastermind is a $25,000 investment. And part of that investment means Donald gets to look at your marketing, your words, and everything that you're building in your business. So when he looked at her website, He called it arguably the best website he'd ever seen for a coach or consultant. So by the end of this episode, you're gonna know exactly what was broken, what we fixed, how we fixed it, and what you can take away from this and apply to your own website today. Let's dive in. Okay, so I've got Susan's before website in front of me, and you'll see the main headline is her name and divorce coach. So. One great thing that she's \[00:02:00\] doing here is she is letting people know that she is a divorce coach. Then underneath that she has the SOUL method. So at this phase of the exchange, if I'm landing on her website as an as a potential client, I actually don't care about how she does what she does. The SOUL method is really how she does it. I really care what she does, so I wanna know. What she does, I wanna know how is it gonna benefit me? And so what Susan has here is her name, divorce Coach, the Soul Method, and then she has the phrase out of the darkness I found within me an Invincible Light, which I think we can all agree is beautiful. It's poetic, but. The problem with leading with poetic, is that it's just not clear. It doesn't carry with it information about what she actually does and how she can make my life better as her client. So the, the issue here \[00:03:00\] is really, lack of clarity, poetic, and using big words for her name rather than using big words to communicate what she does. So, so the contrast of this is in her current website. Now, this is her wire frame. We haven't fully even designed the website yet, but we've mapped out the words for the website on this blueprint so you can see the difference. When we landed it on this website. it says Make smart divorce decisions today that build the life you want. Strategic coaching to help you protect your children, your finances, and your future. So I'm gonna go back to the original here, Susan. Divorce Coach, the SOUL method out of darkness I found within me an invincible light. Okay. Beautiful, poetic, but not useful to the visitor. I'm gonna go back here to the new website. Make smart divorce decisions today that build the life you want tomorrow. Subhead, strategic coaching to help you protect your children, your \[00:04:00\] finances, and your future. And then we follow that with a very clear call to action. Infused into that call to action button is an actual benefit. So book your heroic divorce strategy call. Oh my gosh. I get to book a call with this woman and. It's gonna be strategic and it's gonna be worth my time. And there's an aspirational identity attached to heroic divorce. So this is very clear. It answers the questions, what do you do? How's it gonna make my life better? And what do you want me to do next? We do follow this up with some authority around susan's qualifications. So we've got former prosecutor, trial lawyer, M-S-N-B-C, senior Legal Analyst, certified divorce Coach, and certified divorce mediator. So we're doing so much heavy lifting just in this hero section of the website where again, we're answering those questions, what do you do? How's it gonna make my life better? What do you want me to do next? \[00:05:00\] We're calling them to action right here, building authority with some of her past roles in law. And then I want you to notice up here in the upper left hand corner underneath her logo. So in the upper left corner of any website, there's typically a logo and we're introducing the idea of her method here. And we're calling it the *Heroic Divorce Method.* So if I met Susan and I was going through a divorce and she told me, oh, I have a heroic divorce method. I, my curiosity would be peaked. I would be leaning in. I'd wanna know more. If I met Susan at a cocktail party and she told me I have the SOUL method. I don't know if I would necessarily wanna know more. the SOUL method really doesn't tell me anything that I can relate to if I were someone going through a divorce. If I were going through a divorce \[00:06:00\] and I heard the *heroic divorce method*, I'd be like, whoa, this woman, I would feel so much comfort. This woman has an actual method. She has a proven framework or a system that she uses to allow me to navigate through my divorce. And not only that, come out of the divorce as a hero. So we've already started really strong. One of the things here in the original website that Susan had was that she's really making herself the hero of her own story. It's really all about her upfront. And notice here, this is all about our potential client or all about our hero,Let's move down the page so as we move down Susan's page, she has a line that says, I help people in the hell of divorce reclaim their power legally, financially, emotionally, before, during, after. Oh my gosh, is that a \[00:07:00\] mouthful or what? It's a lot of commas and a, and a long list. And our brains will check out. When we have long sentences or a lot of commas or a lot of lists. So it says, I'm gonna repeat it again. I help people in the hell of divorce reclaim their power legally, financially, and emotionally before, during, and after. It's just a lot for the brain to try and digest. This is a really good example of a high cognitive load statement. And then we've got ignite your purpose, unleash your life. The divorce was just the catalyst. Now let's build the life that you want. Divorce isn't just an ending, it's an invitation to transform. Some of the words in here are actually really beautiful and really poetic, but again, intangible. My brain doesn't have anything to grab onto here. So this section here is not doing Susan any favors. What we did in the next \[00:08:00\] section is really articulate the problem that our heroes are navigating. What are they struggling with? Let's help them feel, seen, feel heard, feel understood. And we do that by articulating their problem and helping them realize like we get them, we know what they're going through. So on her new website we have. Divorce forces major life decisions when you're least equipped to think clearly. Whoa, that is an overarching problem that I can grab onto. Are you tired of lying awake terrified that wrong one, wrong move will cost you everything? Are you tired of not knowing who to trust or what to do next? Are you tired of making decisions from a place of fear or overwhelm? Are you walking into critical meetings without anyone truly in your corner? So these lines are really meant to help the visitor understand that they are not alone in this struggle. \[00:09:00\] And that we really get where they are. We understand the problem that they're in. So let's jump back to the old site . And again, we've got.difficult words that are hard for a human to wrap their brain around. She has questions, who am I now? what do I truly want? How do I rebuild not just my life, but my sense of self? we don't really want to burden our visitor with a bunch of heavy, lofty questions. so there's a disconnect here and it is not working and this is how we fixed it. Let's move on to the next section. What do you get? What's the benefit of this? So. The benefit here on this original website is break free, rebuild, rise higher, and that is too vague to actually connect with an ideal client. Break free, rebuild, rise higher again, poetic.\[00:10:00\] but unclear. And telling a story on your website is all about being clear, so. We counteract that with a new website with you. Deserve steady strategic guidance when the stakes are highest. Know what to do next. Protect your children and your finances. Restore your sanity. Those are things my brain can actually grab onto and notice, we're not even talking about Susan yet. We're talking about her client. We're talking about their struggles. We're talking about their success, what they want more than anything. Let's keep going down the page. one of the things that you'll notice here on this page is there's a lot of all caps, fonts, all the fonts are roughly the same size. there's three or four different font sizes, but they're all very similar. It's like a 19 point \[00:11:00\] font, a 22 point font, a 23 point font, and a 24 point font. So for those of you who are not font nerds, the idea is we need to create a hierarchy of messaging. We want clear headline fonts, clear subhead, fonts, and clear body copy fonts. When everything on the page is the same size, meaning all the words are the same size, it looks like everything is being screamed at me at the same volume. That divorce isn't just an ending, it's an invitation to transform all caps. All big, all the same size. Whereas if we pop over to Susan's new website, the eye knows where to go. It knows to go to the headline first. It knows to go to the subhead second and then it knows to go to the paragraph or the body copy third. this type of hierarchy is one of the most important things that we do together that \[00:12:00\] will allow the visitor of the website to actually take in and digest the message that we're trying to communicate to her. So let's keep going down the page. in the next section of Susan's website she has, Introducing the SO method, strategic, open, unstoppable, liberated,I don't know what that means. It's taking me too much work to figure out what that means, and it's coming into the page too early. I'm still curious about what she's gonna do for me. later on in the page, we can talk about your method and how you do it, and I'll show you what that looks like. So before we get to the method, we really want to continue to build trust. So for the new website we have: call me first before you call your lawyer. I've been on both sides of the courtroom. Now I'm on yours. Then we have a video of Susan. All of this is important, right? But one of the most important things that you can do on your website is to have a video of \[00:13:00\] you speaking directly to your potential client. That allows them to get to know you, to hear your warmth, your expertise, your care. And so that's what we're doing here for Susan. then we're going to introduce her as the guide. This doesn't really happen on her old website at all. she doesn't really position herself as the guide. Because she has already positioned herself as the hero. So what I wanna do next is go into. The method.. So we've got her original one was called the Soul Method, We updated that to the Heroic Divorce Method. if we have a method or our own way of doing things, that's awesome. That shows that you're different from everybody else. It shows that you know what you're doing, that you have a process. What I want you to consider about your process when you're naming it is that it's always gonna be stronger if you infuse an \[00:14:00\] aspirational identity into the name of your method. So if I'm going through a divorce, I wanna come outta my divorce, a hero. And her method. Shows that her clients are going to be heroic. So we've named it the Heroic Divorce Method. Make the smartest decisions of your life when the stakes are high. Don't stay trapped between fear and fury when a clear path forward exists. Together we'll turn chaos into clarity because you deserve the, to be the hero of this story. And then another call to action book your Heroic Divorce Strategy call. So you can see the difference between having your own method and having a visual that communicates that method and having the words in that method actually describe something that matters to the ideal client. This here, the Soul Method, strategic open, unstoppable, liberated, doesn't really tell me anything. \[00:15:00\] So the other thing I want to show you today is this: how we work together one-on-one, elite soul coaching, high level mastermind retreats and bespoke transformation experience. So she's telling me three things that she does, but really what she needs to be doing is giving her hero a plan. So instead of talking about all the things that you do, I want you to call your hero to action with a clear and simple plan. Here's how it works. Book Your Heroic Divorce Strategy call Step one of your plans, always gonna be your call to action. Step two, move forward with confidence. We'll build a smart personal strategy around your family, your finances, and your future. You'll be ready for every critical moment before it arrives, and then step three of the plan. Always gonna be the happy end result. Protect your children, your finances, and your privacy. That is step three. Come through your divorce knowing every decision was made with clarity, courage, and strategy. Alright, so those are the \[00:16:00\] core components of Susan's page. We we are building trust here with testimonials. We're showing how we're different with a unique process infographic, and then we're going deeper into the the services that she offers for her clients. Here, she has a tier one service, a tier, tier two, and a tier three. When I work with my clients, this is one of the things that we do together is really craft your suite of offerings so a potential client can identify which tier they're interested in. So what does this mean for your own website? Here's the question I want you to sit with after today's episode. Whose story is your website telling? Is it your story Or is it your client's story? Pull up your homepage right now if you can and look at the very first thing someone reads. Is it your name, your credentials? Is it your method name? Is the site telling your story. If it names the situation your client is in, or an \[00:17:00\] outcome they want, the site is telling their story. That one shift changes everything about how a site performs. So a quick self-audit would be, read your hero section headline aloud. Does it name a result your client wants, or does it describe you? Look at where your credentials appear on the page. Do they come before or after you've named your client's problem? if you have a branded method name, could a stranger understand what it means in three seconds without any explanation? If you went through the audit and realized your site is still telling your story instead of your client's story, that's exactly what we work on our money making messaging call. It's a 40 minute working session while we're go through your messaging together and we'll figure out what's getting the way of you getting the right clients to say yes. So go to my website, red door stories.com, and click on the blue button and book a money making messaging call with me today. And if you know of another coach or consultant who \[00:18:00\] needs to hear this, please share this episode with them and tell them to start here. Thanks so much. Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Why leading with credentials too early backfires - What Donald's review revealed about websites that don't convert - One question to audit your own homepage today - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/neal-foard-storytelling-close-more-sales ### Title: How to Use Storytelling to Close More Sales with Neal Foard ### Page ID: 9299383 ### Content: # How to Use Storytelling to Close More Sales with Neal Foard How to Use Storytelling to Close More Sales with Neal Foard **Your clients are sizing you up long before you make an offer.** How you present yourself and what you say both send a signal. And most business owners aren't being intentional about it. In the newest episode of *From Click to Client*, I'm talking with Neal Foard, an advertising guru who's worked with some of the biggest brands in the world. **Neal has spent his career studying what actually moves people to trust, buy, and come back**. If your message feels right but clients aren't responding, this episode will show you why. Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Kris:** Fellow storyteller, guru, and just an overall delight of a human being. **Neill:** Well, like you, I came from the propaganda business. I spent 30 plus years trying to create persuasive messages on behalf of brands and, trying to create experiences when I was in the experiential marketing part of that. And over the course of that, that long career, I discovered that maybe the most, excuse me, maybe the most cool tool that you walk away with. Is a sense of how to be persuasive as a person. And if, if I could offer you any one of four superpowers, for \[00:01:00\] example, super strength or the power of invisibility, or the ability to jump into the air and fly it fast as a jet, or I gave you the ability to change people's minds, that's the one that is the most powerful. Because with the power, with the ability to change people's minds, you can get anything you want. Anything that you could get by super strength, you can easily get by persuasiveness. It's since the invention of language, the ability to change people's minds has been the most potent and powerful way to take advantage. I'm so sorry. I made the mistake of eating an almond before we went on, and now it is decided to establish base camp somewhere right about here. **Neill:** Yeah. Anyway, but to, to complete the picture. So it, it wasn't, it wasn't so much learning to be persuasive by crafting persuasive messages for clients. It was in the act of trying to sell the ideas to the clients. That's when you really found out whether you had any chops as a, you know, as, as \[00:02:00\] a Bengali, as the ability to sell someone something. When, and as you would know, only too well, Kris, people, you can't persuade somebody to buy something when they don't want to buy it. If they don't want to buy it. Any excuse will do. If they wanna buy it, any reason will suffice. You know, the, the, so. The, the art of persuasion, and this goes right back to Dale Carnegie, 1933. I think the art of persuasion has everything to do with trying to make people feel good about you. And, you know, that's why I put this above my desk life as a team sport, that the, the more you see each other as friends and colleagues and not competitors, the more that you see your fellow human being as somebody who's experiencing the thing, same thing you're experiencing at the same time. And that you should have empathy and compassion for them, not fear and distrust. The more you do that, the more you will capitalize on what makes us powerful as a species. Cooperation. Cooperation is where we get our power. Just imagine, Kris, I want \[00:03:00\] you to, you know, you and I are cave, caveman, and cavewoman on the African plane hundreds of thousands of years ago, and we are being approached by hyenas. Or a pride of lions. Now, who do you think is more frightened? Us of the hyenas or 50 human beings with sharp sticks? We are far more dangerous than they are because we can communicate. And you know, when they, by the way, I am told that human beings smelled terrible. That that was part of our survival strategy was our body odor was repulsive to animals. Anyway. Whether that's truth, I return to my original proposition, which is our ability to cooperate is what made us survive. **Neill:** And without nails and without long teeth, we nevertheless made it out the other end and it's because of our superpower language and cooperation. **Kris:** Neal, you have, you have a really rich background with Fortune 500 companies like Budweiser and Lexus and Toyota. so you know. \[00:04:00\] You, you were really in the game working with some big names and using your ability to persuade and tell stories and get people on board with your creative. Is that right? **Neill:** That's it. To be a modest, that was my strength, was I wasn't particularly genius, creative person. I was a copywriter and I wasn't better at it than everybody else, but I enjoyed the company of clients and I had one quality that I think was incredibly valuable when it came to persuasion, which was, I was, for the most part, I was a good listener. So it was rare when I was working at cross purposes with my clients. And as you can imagine, you know, the most important thing about a client is that they pay your bills and the more they enjoy your company and the more they like you and the more they trust you, the more likely they are to pay those bills. So, um. Yeah, that was my chief asset of in the business, was that I could go into a room of clients and be a good listener and deliver on what \[00:05:00\] they were hoping for. **Kris:** And so after decades of that type of work, what I get a feel from you is that you've gone so deep into this work that it's almost become kind of spiritual to you. **Neill:** Well, that's an interesting way of putting that. I will, I will agree with you in this sense that, uh, people operate out of too much fear and too much anxiety, and they needn't, but we are being inundated. By algorithms and forces that incentivize dividing us up and making us afraid. You know, these people are out to get you. Those ones are stealing from you. You know, they have no right to take your rightful play. You know, I mean, this kind of **Neill:** This kind of awful, drumbeat of negativity and Yeah. And division. That is the dark side, that's the dark energy of persuasion, that's using repetitive lies and, and, um, you know, pessimism in order to, \[00:06:00\] you know, rivet people's attention because attention is worth money. **Neill:** My, the, the light version, the, the version I'm trying to pursue is to persuade people that there is an ROI to kindness and togetherness and cooperation that dwarfs the return on division. Mm. That. When you are good to people and you are a trustworthy person, and instead of going out into the marketplace and saying, what's in it for me? Rather saying, I think I can help you and I, and even better, I think we can help each other that the, and I'll give you some really solid examples of, of that at work, but I'm preaching that evangel because I'm at the stage in my career when I don't think I'm gonna be, I'm not gonna be starting a new startup, you know, that goes unicorn on anybody. I just want to leave the commons better than I found it. And so, if you will, I'm sort of. Vacuuming up around myself right now for all of the sins and mistakes I made in the past to try to increase people's faith that being good to each \[00:07:00\] other in business is more profitable. I'll give you a couple of really solid examples, and I'll start in a very, uh, what's the word, counterintuitive world of car dealers. And as you can imagine, uh, as all businesses are on a spectrum of, you know, at this end, are the absolute rapacious huns, and then at the other end are sweet people who are only in the business to make life easier for people. the most profitable and most powerful dealer I ever saw was a guy who was Hallmark, was generosity and trust. And he used to have a kind of unofficial slogan, which was, I'll lose a little money to make a friend. And a good example of how he would do that was he would give his service writers, you know, who were, as soon as you drove in for car service, they would write you up, you know, like, what do you need? And so forth. And he would say, listen, Jim, if some. Elder gal comes in and she doesn't look like she's made of money and she's in there for anything less. That costs costs less than $200. Just give it to her. Don't charge her and don't tell her it's from me and don't tell her. It's the policy of the store. We're we'll. Never Stop getting people with their hands out. \[00:08:00\] Just tell her it's from you because you like her and you know Mrs. Hutchin Curtis, it's nice to see you again. Don't worry about it. That's, that's no charge. Because I want her to drive away thinking I've got a guy in the car business and here's what's going to happen just between you and me and the friends post, she's gonna go home to the tennis club or the bridge club or just her friends and she's never gonna shut up about it. And so that's already, it has paid for itself in word of mouth. But if she has a son or a daughter, I'm probably gonna sell them 11 cars. So as much as you know, I, I like being sweet to old people. I happen to know we're gonna make a lot of money off this gesture. We can do another thing, which was very clever, which was he, he was doing business near the New Jersey turnpike, and on the turnpike had spring when all of the road salt and all of the debris and everything that they've been putting down to, you know, for traction, that starts to come up and hit people's windshields. Everybody is driving around on the turnpike with a crack in their windshield. So what does he do? Every single car that parked in his parking lot, \[00:09:00\] he would send people out with a little hypodermic needle to put the adhesive in the crack so it wouldn't get any bigger and he wouldn't tell anyone. He wouldn't, he wouldn't ask permission. He wouldn't charge, and he wouldn't tell anyone. And he said that the logic behind it was he wanted it to be a kind of urban myth. He wanted the word to spread. Like, oh yeah, if you go down there, it'll fix somehow. You're gonna drive out your windshield's fixed. And, and that was, it did what he said it would do, which is it became, people would show up, you know, to, to cheat the system. They would show up just to get their windshield fixed. They would get fixed and they would drive away. And they're thinking, you know, oh, I cheated the system. No, you didn't, bro, you just increased the, the footprint of this, this myth, which it wasn't a myth at all. Right? **Neill:** But these, these gestures of kindness and, you know, generosity. It turned out to be vastly disproportionate in return to his reputation, to the number of reliable and, and, uh, loyal service customers he had to the number of repeat buyers. You know, there, there is a kind of perverse thing about buying a car, which is the dealers actually, \[00:10:00\] when on a, once the price of a car is well known, they actually don't make that much money off them. They'll make about 500, $600 off it, but that's not enough to keep the operation running. They really do make their money off repeat purchases and service. And therefore, what you really wanna do is you want to create sufficient trust and graciousness that people come to you for service. Well, a lot of businesses are that way. They survive on repeat business. And anybody who knows the term cac, customer acquisition cost, CAC, is very expensive. It's very difficult to get your first customer, to get a repeat customer has a CAC of zero. In other words, they've just come back because you've treated them well. So that in principle is the, the preaching I do in the world about business and brands is let's not make it about price, let's make it about you overdelivering in such a way that you are perceived as being generous and sweet, natured trustworthy, and just as loyal to the \[00:11:00\] customers as they are to you. And I can, I'll give you a couple other examples. Yeah, yeah. **Neill:** So, um, I was at LAX, this was not recent, this was a few years back, but, you know, airports because of the trouble with, uh, the TSA and so on, they were having these insane lines and. People not thinking straight. They often take it out. They take out their frustration on like the flight attendants or the the desk people, and it's you just, you want to grab them by the lapel and get very close to them and say, it's not their fault. They don't have anything to do with that. Why are you treating them badly? But people are not rational. **Neill:** Well, my friend Marcus and I were down at LAX on one day when Chicago, which was a United hub, LAX is a United hub. So Chicago was having a weather event and all of a sudden there were a lot of delayed and canceled flights in Los Angeles. It's brilliant. Sunshine outside and nobody understands what the hell the problem is. **Neill:** You know what? We're not having any trouble. Well, bro, everything's a connection from Chicago. Marcus was an improv actor and he sees \[00:12:00\] this, these poor women behind the counter are just getting treated like they have a big switch. They won't flick. You know, why aren't you fixing the weather? So everybody's so irrationally angry with them that you could tell they were just at the, at their wits end with the human race they were finished with. **Neill:** People suck is basically what they were thinking. **Neill:** The couple just in front of us with this man and woman team, and they were just insufferable, they were awful. They were condescending, they were entitled. Just everything you lament about what we're capable of as a species, especially if they're upper income, you know, they can sometimes really be bad. Well. The woman is now, she's gone a thousand yard stare. You know, she's been in, she's been in the trenches long enough that she doesn't even mind the shelling anymore. She doesn't care. We get up to the desk, we're gonna check some bags and before she can say anything, or even I can say anything, Marcus just goes, oh man, those two are in big trouble. And he's pointing at the cup of sleeping. And she goes, what? And he pulls out this little miniature troll doll. I wonder if I have one handy. Um, 'cause I like \[00:13:00\] to keep, okay, so here's one. **Neill:** And it had hot pink hair. And he says. Bki saw the whole thing, and all the trolls know each other and he's going to tell them what they did. And if you give him his favorite snack before the sun goes down, he will wreak a horrible revenge. And then he pulls out this like bag of m and ms and he hands them to the woman. And now she doesn't quite know what to make of this lunatic in front of her. But the partner, you know, just to her left goes, can we feed him now? And so here's what happened, and. The, what Marcus had done. I don't know if he had this in mind or not. He was just being playful. He was just being ridiculous. **Neill:** But the psychological reaction, if you think about it, was, it was profound because what he did was he shocked her enough to where she was no longer even thinking about these two. Right. There were two of the 11, they, they were no longer on her radar. He had wiped the whiteboard clean, and now all she was thinking about was this lunatic in front of her. But he's a \[00:14:00\] friendly, lovable lunatic. And is he really like Danish or what the No, no. He's just. Right. Okay. The whole m and ms and everything, and the partner now here, now we know that what happened then was that they opened the bag of m and ms. They put the troll behind the counter, you know, where nobody else could see it, but they could see it. And you knew that the accumulated m and ms were, the pile was getting bigger and bigger. Whereas with every douche nozzle that came in to be mean to them, they just kept feeding it. And they would laugh. And, and so behind the counter, there's a kind of perverse pleasure. They're getting out of everybody that treats them bad. They're reacting differently. They're, they're going, oh, that's one more for borque. The revengeful. Okay, so now let's go back to the, the, uh, principle of return on investment. So what was Marcus', ROI? Well, he, the, the patrol was about 66 cents, and the bag of m and ms was probably at about a buck 20. But when we got to the gate. Most people don't know that. The people at the gate were the same ones taking your luggage down below, and they know \[00:15:00\] the whole passenger manifest and people don't realize how much discretion those people have to affect your flight. And guess who got an upgrade? Yeah. Marcus went up to first class, a $472 value for a mini troll and a bag of m and ms. Now, I did not get the upgrade, but I was only too happy to let the universe perform its magic. **Neill:** Because, uh, as soon as she said it was the same woman, she goes, uh, she goes, oh, Mr. McCollum, it looks like you've been upgraded. And then we all looked at each other like he. So anyway. Oh man, man, that to me, that to me was a very good example of **Neill:** The karma of making friends and influencing people, you know, old fashioned Dale Carnegie. I'll give you the, my last example. I have many more, but I'll give you the, **Neill:** So there is a, uh, there's a standup comedian, oh, \[00:16:00\] I wish I could remember his name. I'll figure it out. But standup comedian in la he's been doing his thing for years and years. He's kind of a journeyman, he's not a headliner. but he, uh, some years ago he started doing this thing where he would go out on the street in his car and he would roll up next to people and roll down his window, and then he would yell things to them that were very unexpectedly funny. So, for example, he would pull up next to a woman in her car and he would say, excuse me, do you work for UPS? She goes, no. And he goes, really? 'cause you have the whole package. And then she laughs and then he pulls up next to these two guys on the street and he goes, Hey, would you do me a favor and maybe leave some women for the rest of us? Okay. And so on. And he would just do this, you know, for two hours a day. And then he would, he would film it and then he would post it on YouTube. And he got famous for this. And then he wound up getting, get this, oh my god, Kris, from that thing that he would do and he would do it all, you know, all the time. **Neill:** And you and I both know that's an income. Yeah. That's like, that's a good income. **Neill:** So all for probably about six or seven hours a week. **Neill:** But it's, it's, he enjoys every minute of it. He was doing it just to do it anyway. he loves to make people laugh. He has goofball things like, do you work for Google? No, really? 'cause you're everything I'm searching for. And then he would pull up next to these women and go, does it ever get tiring being that beautiful? You know, and so on and so on. Just these little things. Now, the reti, the ROI, is so disproportionate to the effort, all because he's just going out into the world trying to make people smile. Now, even if he encounters the odd duck who feels obnoxious about his, he is so restored by the general feeling. **Neill:** And in business, there was nothing, I don't think there was any. Quite such pleasure to be taken as offering a service or a product that people realize that \[00:18:00\] it's valuable. Like they, they really like it. A pair of handmade boots that, you know, you can only get if you wait four months for, or, you know, uh, or I, I used to do a lot of advertising on behalf of Toyota and it was a brand I, to this day, believe in ferociously. Uh, you know, I was a real partisan for the brand. I had the good fortune to be working as an advertiser on a brand I believed in. **Neill:** But you didn't have to tell a single lie in all of the tell you we're gonna, **Neill:** Yeah. And I just had such, I always took such pleasure and anybody asked me like, what kind of car they should buy? You were gonna have to shut me up. I could, I would, you know, what kind, what, what do you like to drive? Do you want a minivan? Do you want a fly? Do you know this? Do you know that Toyota Sienna is absolutely the best minivan? And, uh, do you want a sedan? How about a sporty? And I knew the whole lineup. I knew 18 cars deep, and I could tell you what the grades differences were. And it, it really was like, um, like somebody knocking on your door to preach the gospel. I mean, I was that obnoxious about it. But the reason I took such \[00:19:00\] pleasure in it, the reason I was so fanatical was 'cause I could believe in it. I could 100% believe in it. **Neill:** And yes, they made false steps like a lot of car companies do. Nobody has a perfect record when it comes to, you know, um And so, but I did notice that when Toyota finally did have to recall the Camry, it was a very famous recall in 2209. They treated the customer so well and they responded so well to the recall that when they took customer surveys after people were happier with Toyota and their product after the recall than they were before. **Neill:** That's who they were. And to me, that's the ROI of kindness and compassion and making something so well and treating people the way they ought to be treated, to the point where, like me, you lock them in for, with a lifetime loyalty that won't tolerate a bad word being spoken about them in your company, and you'll see this again and again when it's small town restaurants and **Neill:** That you will, you'll notice that there is a, a deep, deep satisfaction had by the people that work there. **Neill:** uh, a pride that they don't necessarily have to brag about. They don't go on social media, but they, they wake up in the morning glad that of all the places they could work, at least it's for some place that I enjoy or, you know, I like, you can really, you could truly like your customers. You can love them, and just by doing your service, you can demonstrate that affection. **Kris:** It's, yeah, it's a very different way to approach service. Have you read the book? Unreasonable Hospitality? **Neill:** Oh, have I ever? Yeah. Yeah. And, um, there, there's, uh, oh my God, is it, uh oh. What is the name of the author? It's not Danny Meyer. **Neill:** Well, he's quite famous for the, for the hotdog thing. Very, yeah. **Neill:** So now what he's a really good example of, and, and Meyer too is how dedicated they are to their own staffs. Like how they're, they at their core belief. It's that if I take care of my people, the people will \[00:21:00\] take care of the customers that I lead by example as much by what I tell them. And they're very thorough and they're detail minded, and all that has to happen is for their own staffs to watch them paying attention to the details to realize, oh, he will, he'll change a tablecloth just like anyone else if it's, if he needs to. It's very, very team spirited. **Neill:** There's a, there's a, um, there's a positivity to that can-do, you know, everybody chips in kind of thing. There's a positivity to it that you can't help but enjoy being around. **Neill:** That, that feeling like, we're all gonna make it. This is going to work, and, you know, we will, whether we are number one at the end of the year or not, I can tell you that we are going to make a run for it because. We, we love what we do to the point where it's not work anymore. It's, you know, actors work very hard. Mm-hmm. But when they're performing, they don't think of it as work. Do they? **Neill:** Any, any more than Alyssa Lou, when she was winning her gold medal in the Olympics, \[00:22:00\] her nerves were a very different animal from the nerves of the other competitors. **Neill:** And you could feel it and see it, that when an artist or a musician is performing their art, like a great waiter **Kris:** point, it's a, it's a creative expression is what it's, yeah. **Neill:** Yeah. In the, in the movie Man On Fire, there's this wonderful line where they say, you know, they're talking about this assassin. He says, any, anybody can be an artist. If what they do, they do with enough passion, food, what have you. Everybody can be an artist. Well, Cree's Art is death and he's about to paint his masterpiece. **Neill:** And it's true of anything. We, if, you know, if you are a stockbroker or you are a, an accountant, there is an art form to it. I've known enough CFOs to know that there is a lot of art to what they do. **Kris:** Oh yeah. I, I'm \[00:23:00\] actually working with a client right now. Um, I was just working on it before our call. he's a mortgage broker. Yeah. And he is a, a very creative person outside of, of that. He's a guitar player, a musician, but he brings a creativity and, and a masterfulness to that field that. Is unexpected and really cool. And there's all kinds of, even with story, there's stories are formulaic. fundamentally they're formulaic, but within the formula there, there's limitless creativity that can happen. **Neill:** Yeah. Like music. But, uh, yeah, I do have to say that, you know, a mortgage broker in particular, they, their whole orientation is they are trying to make something happen. They're trying to help you make this happen. So yeah, their creativity is really a, a good component, you know, to, to go back to storytelling for a minute, which is both our sort of, that's our, our purview. The, the thing that I, the \[00:24:00\] evangel that I preach when it comes to that is you've got to, the stories you tell reflect who you are more than the way you tell it. It's what you choose to, to tell, that's where it signals what your priorities are and who you care about and and so forth. And I saw a really good example of this in two different versions of why people should return to office. Now, you know that for a variety of reasons. A lot of CEOs are saying, well, let's get our people back into the office like five days a week. And after people have experienced work from home and remote work and all of the various and sundry benefits that go to that, they're a little reluctant to give up those rights and privileges, especially since, you know, given that they now eliminated their compute commute, they can actually spend more time working on the, on the projects and so **Neill:** Nevertheless. There are, there are different ways to entice people to come back into the office. And the one of the better versions of that that I saw was from a very avuncular, I love that word, avuncular, which is like, like a pleasant uncle. \[00:25:00\] a very avuncular, senior executive said, we are, we are returning to the office a, a great number of us. I'm not going to tell you to come back into the office and I'm not going to disincentivize, you know, your work from home. What I am gonna tell you is something that I is true and that I experienced when I was a lot younger than I am now. When I was early in my career, I got the benefit of having a mentor and it was, when you look at the sweep of my career, it was priceless to get the guidance and counsel of somebody who was watching over me. Like a father figure and helping me not repeat my mistakes and giving me some of the inside scoop on who the players were. And it was very much like he was a little bit like a drone is now, you know, going forward to tell you what the terrain is going to be like. **Neill:** And I, I will tell you that my mentor had nothing to do with the official reporting schedule. He was, he was nowhere remotely near my reporting structure. So it was happenstance that this guy took me under his wing \[00:26:00\] and it benefited me both economically, spiritually, and in terms of my growth as an individual. Now, I can't tell you that I will be your mentor, but I will tell you this, that I am at the stage where, and I see it around on a lot of the senior guys, they just have a compulsion to help younger people. It's just something that happens to you when you get older. You want to be helpful. To young people because you like young people. And so for better or worse, if you don't come back in the office, you're missing out on an opportunity to get, basically a graduate degree you don't pay for. Now I heard that and I thought, I'm just paraphrasing. **Neill:** But you can see that what he's chosen to do is not make it, you know, a uh, a sanitized, clever way of saying everybody's expected back in the office. You know, or you're gonna get, you know, dis you know, you're gonna get spanked. It was come back in the office, or don't your discretion. But I will tell you that there are benefits that accrue to those that return, and it was \[00:27:00\] packaged in such a human way that everybody could see the truth of it. You know, that they go, yeah. You know, I kinda had a feeling, you know, when you're around the boss and you're visible to the boss the next time. Bonuses happen or the next time layoffs happen, that currency is valuable. You know? Yeah. It's not dollars, but it might as well be, this is what I mean by the story you, the story you tell, what you say, not just how you say it is to me, the more value of the two things. So when you and I are talking about storytelling, I think it becomes really important that people go, alright, what is the appropriate story to tell here? One of the things, for example, that one of the councils that I gave was to my nephews who were gonna do speeches at a wedding. **Neill:** And. So I did on my, on my website, I did this talk on, you know, giving a good toast and the first thing I said to them was, okay, let's keep in mind what a toast is at a wedding. A toast is very different at a business dinner \[00:28:00\] than it is at a wedding. And I want you to understand this right down into the double helix of your DNA. Do you understand me? Now, listen, this wedding is not about you, okay? It's about the young couple. You are not the main character in this play. You're not even the main character in your speech. You are. You are a supporting cast member whose job is to make the young couple feel good about their decision and as an extra bonus, if you can make the parents feel good because you are the type of friend that they have, **Neill:** They think what an admirable young person. Then you score bonus points. Because you weren't selfish, you didn't roast anybody. You didn't say anything stupid. You kept your language clean. Then you will have scored a 10 out of 10 by not being the main character. Do you read me the book? Got it. You know, every, every story is based on context. Where am I telling this? Right. What do they want from it? And unfortunately, you know, I have seen \[00:29:00\] very, very funny speeches at weddings where it's like, yeah, but it it was about you and you didn't do yourself any favors here because you tell me, does anybody have a right to outshine the bride at a wedding? Answer? No. Don't go there. **Neill:** So, so likewise, in business negotiations. Whether you are trying to encourage people to come back in the office, or you're confronting a very difficult decision about, are we gonna lay off this many people? Or, oh, we are gonna share the pain and stick together. I, you know, I'm gonna make the decision, but I want to hear your ideas. **Neill:** Just that simple gesture is a story. Why? Because I, what the story I'm telling is this is the kind of person I am, and I want to know whether or not this is the right thing to do. **Neill:** I don't know how, what you've experienced in your personal experience, but in my personal experience in small companies that, could either \[00:30:00\] lay off people or stick together and wind it, you know, and reduce salaries probably seven outta 10 times. **Neill:** And, ironically enough, I think they emerge from that much, much stronger than people that laid them off, you know? **Neill:** yeah. When a boss needs, when a boss needs you to stay, when a boss ask, asks you to Yeah. You do something that they, that they stay. **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you feel needed. You feel wanted, you feel like, you know, you are, you're, you contribute something to the group that really matters. And yeah. **Neill:** That, that ability to make somebody feel as though they matter may be one of the most important skills, uh, of a, of a boss. It was a wonderful case of, uh, Jose Moreno. He was the, the manager coach of the, oh, geez. They, it was a, a English Premier League soccer team. And, uh, Tottenham Hot Spurs. So he was the manager of the Tottenham team and they were in a game with \[00:31:00\] Olympiacos and there was just, you know, you know how it is in soccer, like a game can be one nil. Like that's the entire score. **Neill:** That's how it could be. So any advantage you have is, is enormous. And what happened was one of the ball boys who was recovering a ball and was giving it to the Tottenham player to send back into play, he caught one of the Olympiacos players napping. He saw that he was distracted for a half second, so he rushed the throw in to the Tottenham player and they beat this guy by two steps. It led to a very simple score, and it was all because the ball boy was paying attention. And Marino, who doesn't miss a trick, saw what he'd done. And he comes over and he embraces this kid, and they talked about it in the post game press conference. **Neill:** They actually, they, uh, one of the reporters asked him, what was that all about? And he talks, he sang the praises of this ball boy. And he's, and very seriously, he goes, he was a very good ball boy. He's a very good ball boy. He's not thinking about the scarves in the stands. He's not the there to watch the, the, the spec at the call. \[00:32:00\] He's playing the game. He's in the game and he winds up inviting him to the, to eat with the players. Because, because, because Marino understands Everybody matters at one point or another if you're paying attention, even the cleaning crew will save your ass. And this is a spirit of generosity that makes a great leader. Somebody who acknowledges you matter here. And even on days when you might think you don't keep your eyes peeled and the occasion will rise when you may be the nail in the horse's shoe, that saves this whole battle. But you know, it's, there's a generosity. Great leaders are actually quite generous in spirit. Let's go back to the, uh, American Revolution. There was a moment at the end of the revolution when George Washington was being suggested as, look, you already have command of the continental Army. You could just pretty much be the strong man. Like, why don't, why don't we just make you the leader? And Washington gave up his commission, went back to Mount Vernon. \[00:33:00\] Surrendered his power, and I don't know if this story's apocryphal or not, but apparently George, Richard George, George ii, the English king, heard that this is what happened and proclaimed that man will be remembered as the most important figure of the age F for that gesture. That the generosity of giving up power as part of the birth of the nation will be remembered as the single most important single act by an individual in the formation of the nation. And and the tradition was after that the peaceful transfer of power was set as the example by George Washington. That's a story. The story he tells is by his actions out of. Like, who can say these things get gilded? You know, over the hundreds of years, they, they take on a kind of mythic quality that may bear 60% resemblance to the truth. Like, I don't know for a fact that George II ever actually said that, but the important thing was that there's truth in \[00:34:00\] it, When you, when you do these things from an, from a, when, when you adopt the car dealer's attitude of, I'll lose a little money to make a friend, in the end, the profit is compound. **Kris:** Yeah. Why, why do you think? I feel like, I mean, I've been telling stories and in, in integrating storytelling into my work for a very long time, but it feels like it's really caught on and that people are talking about it now more than ever. **Neill:** Well, I. There's a variety of different possibilities. I can't put my finger on it. I'll, I'll suggest, here's one possibility that when you look at a meme stock, a meme stock is 99% story. It, it is defying gravity in the traditional market sense. You know, why is this stock valued like this that is so disproportional to the assets and the, and the revenue? This \[00:35:00\] doesn't make sense. No, it doesn't make sense because what has happened is a story has made people irrational. Now, now they're supporting that stock for reasons that defy logic. So given our fixation with money, I think that the storytelling. Has become the province of the CEO who wants to inflate his stock price by creating a narrative that outpaces the fundamentals. Another hypothesis is that when you watch the show Mad Men, the thing that makes Don Draper so powerful is not his, you know, haughty dnce. It's his ability to walk into a room of Kodak executives and tell that carousel story about how this is not a slide projector, this is a time machine, you know, and it's one of the most artful examples of how just the interpretation. Of how you look at something completely changes its place in your life and the value that, how much you'll pay for it. Mm. Um, and you know, \[00:36:00\] here's another example of, of how you can just take a simple narrative and all of a sudden it inflates the value of something beyond rationality. So if you buy an ordinary New York Yankees, baseball jersey on, you know, online with the number three on it, babe Ruth sold number. It'll cost you probably about in the order of maybe 120, 160 bucks. What if I told you that was the actual jersey worn by Babe Ruth in the 1933 World Series where he called his shot and they beat the Chicago Cubs? How much would you pay for that jersey now? Well now you'd pay literally $24 million **Neill:** It's because of the story attached to it. It's the actual jersey. It was there. **Neill:** Right. And only one Jersey gets to tell that story. **Neill:** It's the same as like, well, why would anybody pay? I I can get, get a very, very fine reproduction of the Van Gogh sunflowers painting Or I can literally pay \[00:37:00\] $180 million if, if I can even get it to go up for sale, I will pay minimum $180 million for it. Why? Why? Because it's the real one. And this is, the thing about a story is you don't just get a painting, you get the entire Van Gogh, uh, legend. You own a singular asset from an artist whose story is fantastic. And this is how it is with a lot of things. The, you know, limited supply just means that, that means it's. It is defined by a, you know, like limited supply usually means it's done by an artisan or something like that. Like There's, there's a fantastic brand of a homemade boot that apparently some guy in Idaho or something makes, and the Germans send him his special leather and whatnot, and it, it takes you four months just to go in there to get your sizes taken. And then it's gonna take probably about a year and a half to actually get the boots. But people will pay unbelievable amounts of money for them because of that. All that your, \[00:38:00\] that lore. **Neill:** And so if I think of, let's, let's go to like what a CEO's life is like. CEO's life is, you know, he has operational considerations and he, he has a very professional people reporting to him, and he has to hold their feet to the fire on reaching certain targets. And he has to be realistic enough about the targets to make sure that they're achievable so that nobody gets burnt out from, you know, just this constant drumbeat of more, more, more. You know, and on top of that, he has that same, more, more that's in the other ear from investors and, you know, private equity, trying to grind him constantly with pressure about their never enough. There's never enough. You can have the best quarter the company's ever had, and next month if you only do 1% better, uh, you're an idiot. So a CEO's life very much is about storytelling. It's if it, if you're not practicing the art, you better start getting good at it because you can take. Just the way you answer questions on an earnings call can make you sound confident. And self-assured \[00:39:00\] and knowledgeable, or it can make you sound prevaricating and tentative and cautious and or incompetent. And you've got to get in your mind, what is the narrative I'm here to tell today, even if it's bad news. If spun the proper way, it can sound good. Now, bad news is not always bad news. If you look over the long throw of a CEO's tenure, bad news spoken plainly, honestly, with sincerity and you know, cleanly and clearly and not panicking, even if people are upset about the bad news seven months from now, they will remember that you are unafraid to tell them the truth. And there aren't enough like. That, you know, the CEOs are quite adept at using euphemisms and buzzword buzzwords and, and, uh, cloaking their meaning in sanded terminology. And it, you know, you know the type, it's the, it's the button down collar and then the blue sweater. You know that that's the Silicon Valley \[00:40:00\] CEO uniform. They're casual just like you. Here, let's go have a coffee together. And, and they, they spew this sanitized The best, best q and i i ever saw. Oh, you would've loved it, Kris. It was just, it was a, we did this real song and dance on behalf of a very, very large client. We were trying to win their business for a multimillion dollar installation. The president of the company was whip smart and, and very. He was very, uh, affable. But we, after doing this big, colorful, loud, brilliant dog and pony show, he was skeptical that we could get everything done by the deadline. You could not violate this timetable. So he wanted to know if I'm gonna do apples to apples against the other people whose ideas I've seen. I need to know how much of this I'm comparing. And our, our chief of operations, the guy who was in charge of building the whole stuff, you know, everything. He hadn't said a word \[00:41:00\] the entire meeting. We all had these little microphones in front of us 'cause it was a big panel. And finally the president says he, he turns to this guy and he says, how much of what they've shown me today, can you actually finish by opening day? And without a beat? This guy just leans into the microphone and goes a hundred percent. Like that. And so that was, that was not two words. That was one word. A hundred percent. A hundred is spelled 18. All lowercase, right? A hundred percent. Now that was, that was the official response, but here's what the text actually reads. It's like, brother, I wouldn't let them show you anything I couldn't build. They may be the ones talking, but believe it when I tell you I'm in charge here. Nobody makes a move unless I say it's okay, because I'm the one who has to answer for it in the end, and I have seen these things come to \[00:42:00\] grief and I will not live through that again. Now, why did it say all that? Because he didn't hesitate. He didn't prevaricate. It wasn't sanded. There was no disclaimer. It was 100% belief from somebody who was going to have to live with that. Mm-hmm. That promise. Is because, is because it's so rare to hear an answer like that. **Kris:** Yeah. Yeah. And you don't question it, right. It's just, it's got the weight of the truth. **Neill:** What do you mean? Am I sure? By the way, that guy who gave that answer, he was, he was a former underwater welder, so this guy was a no-nonsense **Neill:** Like, you know, I risked my life doing this job kind of a guy. Yeah. So, yeah, he was, he was a serious home brain. **Kris:** Oh my gosh. You are \[00:43:00\] full of so much wisdom. A lot of the people listening to us today are coaches, consultants, solopreneurs, they're great at what they do. They're, they have a heart to help their clients. I'm curious, what kind of wisdom or guidance can you share from all your experience around storytelling business? Yeah. You name it. Any direction you wanna go? Well, **Neill:** yeah, I'll stick to storytelling. So here is the, here is the one thing that most people underestimate, and if you do this properly, the dividends are abundant. most people do not rehearse enough when they're gonna make a sales pitch or they're gonna make a presentation, or they're gonna be on a panel discussion. They do not prepare adequately. And when you are really. I'll give you an example. If I'm going to tell a two minute story, I will rehearse that dozens, literally dozens of times. I will do it over and over and over into a camera so that I can watch myself back on how it sounds. And \[00:44:00\] generally speaking, it'll take me about 31 takes to get facile with it. So like, I know the, I know the rhythmic sweep of it. It doesn't mean I've memorized it. **Neill:** I, I know the rhythm of it and I'll, I'll feel good telling it, but most people will not sit still and do it 30 times in a row. They just won't. The great actors will The great actors, that's just part of their process and they don't shy away from it. And they don't, they don't think of it as work. They think it's the process. This is the process. I wanna give the best possible performance I can, which means I really need to know these lines. I need to know these lines so deeply. It is as if I have made them up myself. I, you need to feel it so completely that you saying it seems like it's the first time it's ever been said, and most people, because they're busy, you know, CEOs especially are very, very busy. But here's the dividend. When you go in there and you nail it, I mean, when you really, when it sounds great, that adds \[00:45:00\] 30%, 30 IQ points to your, to the way people perceive you. **Neill:** They, they think you are brilliant because you had it, it just seemed to roll out of you so smoothly. Oh my god. You know, Ron is brilliant. Did you see him do that panel discussion? Remember when they asked him, you know, that question and it was just the most, yeah, he rehearsed it 35 times. He was prepared. To do the rehearsal. And then on top of that, most people don't, they, they know roughly what they're gonna say as opposed to writing down exactly what they intend to say. So that their, their choice of vocabulary is just what they want it to be. They look for the right, they look for, you know, instead of saying it was colorful, they'll say it was vibrant. Or they'll say, they'll say, well, I hadn't thought I couldn't remember up to now, but the vividness of your description has restored him to my memory. You know, they, they have the, the right words for it that make them seem intelligent. **Neill:** And so rehearsal is, it is not a nice to have, it's a must have if you want to be \[00:46:00\] competitive in terms of the way you're perceived. about the way you present things. Then another thing that people underestimate is they really should use their phones to record themselves making presentations and watch them back. And I know most people, most, most, most people are really uncomfortable with watching themselves on camera. Mm-hmm. They cringe when they watch it. But, and this is what I teach all my people. You've got to get over that. Get over it. Watch yourself anyway. And don't, Nope. Don't stop watching. As soon as it makes you uncomfortable, watch the whole thing. I wanna see you because you need to know how you're coming off. **Neill:** You need to, you need to tune yourself up. You need to get better. This is like throwing a baseball around. You gotta, you gotta keep throwing. You gotta practice your backhand, man. You gotta practice and you gotta watch yourself on camera. Doing a backhand and then you go, oh, is that what I look like? Oh God. So it, we are gifted with this device. It gives you the ability very simply to record yourself doing it and then watch it back. And there's another dividend to rehearsing on \[00:47:00\] camera. And here it is. And it's not insignificant. When you get used to recording yourself on camera, you get good on camera, you get good on camera. **Neill:** Video is the canvas that we, that we practice our art on now. Right. That it, it is. If you can get good on video and you can do good presentations on video, you can prerecord your presentations. And all they have to do is they don't even have to cut to you. They just go, let's play, let's play Kris's thing. And it's, it's letter. Perfect. Of course it is. But you know, everybody's got a personal brand and you know, you're, all of us have a variety spectrum of skills. Some people are super organized, some people have incredibly high energy and some people are really, really good on camera. And that being good on camera man, it's 2026. There is always a place for that. There's a, you know, the one of the jobs that I used to do years ago was a job nobody else \[00:48:00\] wanted to do, but I loved it. It was, Toyota has a very, very large dealer network across the country and somebody had to go out and interact with all the dealers to present them with the campaigns and ask them for their, their money on certain campaigns, you know, you had to go out and you interact with board boards of dealers and these are hard charging. Entrepreneurs who are quite unaccustomed to having to listen to nonsense. And were very, very quick decision makers, and they're a tough audience. Mm-hmm. They're, you know, they're deeply suspicious. And they don't, they don't want some flashy ad guy to come in there and think they're gonna bamboozle them. It's like, bro, do you know who you're talking to? We're professionals here. You're not gonna trick anybody. **Neill:** That was a great lesson is so you don't try, don't even, you don't even try. But through that crucible, it does teach you that being sincere and authentic is your best weapon in a tough room. And, and, but rehearsal is the way to get there. There's a, isn't this, it's paradoxical. The \[00:49:00\] more you prepare, the less rehearsed you look **Neill:** the more authentic you actually become, because now you're. You know what you're gonna say now, so you're comfortable being yourself again. You know, you're not, you're not worried about what to do with your hands and stuff. **Kris:** Totally. Yeah. It's like within, within the delivery, you, you can be a little bit nuanced and creative and play a little bit within it, right? **Neill:** enjoy it. So if you, if we go back to like the wedding toast. Now, remember, it's not about you. It's about these two young people who are making a big step here. And you need to reassure them that they're doing the right thing, **Neill:** And always remember they are the stars of the show. So your job is to be supportive and reassuring and so forth. Now, nobody really cares how good a presenter you are, how good a speaker you are. All they care about is what's in your heart. **Neill:** then again, that is all the more reason why you should rehears. \[00:50:00\] Because only when you truly get comfortable with it, as you were saying it was play. Mm-hmm. But this is also, it's your heart coming out. Because you're comfortable enough to, that escapes instead of your nerves. So that was the one thing I wanna leave your people with is they are un no matter who it is, I'm, trust me, they are underestimating how much time they need to spend getting ready for a public appearance. **Kris:** Mm. Thank you. That, that, that really is good for me to hear as well. How do you work with your clients? **Neill:** in a variety of different ways. So I'll, I'll do, um, I'll do one-on-one coaching, although that's, you know, you can't scale. It gets very time consuming and so forth. I, I do have to say I really, really love one-on-one coaching. I, it's, it's fun to try to help people. They're very, very specific needs. Like somebody's trying to overcome an accent, or somebody's got huge stage fright or Or somebody's not, they're not sure how they can even apply a story and so on. I love doing that, but I, I do find that small groups, you know, eight people and so forth, it's, it's fun \[00:51:00\] to do that. I just did, a coaching clinic with, uh, a high school in Minneapolis who are trying to send out the right marketing messages, you know, to their, they've got a variety of different constituents. I mean, obviously the students, but obviously the students' parents, and then also obviously the people that they have to fundraise with. And then obviously the cl you know, the, um, the staff and the **Neill:** you know, well, in each of those cases, what, what you're trying to do is just stay, uh, on your most fundamental values that make you special, and it was great fun to watch them arrive at what they believed those were. It was a, it was such a pleasure to watch people who were thinking that, you know, this is about public relations and this is about, you know, word choices and so forth. When it was, no, in the end, it's really about what do you believe, what do you believe is important? If you could only do one thing for your students, what would you hope it would be? And you would hear just the most marvelous answers. You know, the thing that was most encouraging about that experience was how, how \[00:52:00\] in line and co uh, not coherent, **Neill:** you know, just how congruent the faculty was with the leadership. And I thought, I left that experience going, wow, the young people that come out of this institution are going to lead, um, fulfilling lives. Because they were all about lives of public service. That was what the institution was for. So we want to train young people to live lives of service, to be compassionate and generous and ethical, and even in competitive situations, be honorable and, you know, have the strength of your convictions. And it reminded me of all of the better clients I'd had. It, Remi, they, they, you know, if you, I wish everybody could have been there in the room with me, like everybody, because you would have such hope for the future. You and I both know, and we were talking about this before you started \[00:53:00\] recording, you and I both understand that algorithms and, and media is being incentivized to divide us and to keep us paranoid and fearful. And they, you know, pummel us with negativity. If you can just get away from it for a while. And meet with other people, even people that you possibly disagree with vehemently about something, if you spend enough time with them away from the influence of media Everybody kind of winds up, you know, the, the waves start to calm **Kris:** And everything goes back to smooth. And if you were in that room, you would see people who were, who recognized that the impact of negativity and, and media bias and so on, you know, was having on them and they were determined to be the antidote **Neill:** To that they were sending young people out in the world to be the antidote to the division and negativity. And um, you know, it's very, it's very hard to, it's very hard to face the day unless you go out and seek out \[00:54:00\] chances to restore your soul like that. **Neill:** know, the outdoors tends to, it, it casts sunlight on what is otherwise like a vibrating enclosure. **Kris:** Mm. Where, where can we find you, Neal? I, I know everyone listening is gonna wanna follow you and be connected with you and Yeah. So where do we go? **Neill:** So, I'm easy to find if you just know how to spell my name, because I'm the only one in the world who spells my name. N-E-A-L-F-O-A-R-D. And because of that, if you Google me, you'll find me and you'll find me on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube and, and everywhere else. But the place I'd really like people to visit is. Story fire.net. So www sometimes you have to put that in www.storyfire.net. It gets its name from us telling stories around the campfire. So story fire.net. And how much? I wish I had the.com, but I don't, they're holding it. Ransom the bastards. Um, \[00:55:00\] so story fire.net and, and the the cool thing is that people go and they visit that site. I have quite a number of videos if you wanna explore the course that I sell there. there are quite a few videos that they can get a sample of sort of what's, what's on offer. **Kris:** That's great. What a gift, what a gift to be with you today. And I'm just yeah. Delighted to know you back. Yeah, Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones and I'll see you next. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - The story you tell matters more than how polished your delivery is. - The trick to sounding more authentic and less rehearsed. - What a troll doll can teach you about the ROI of a kind gesture - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-website-real-life-example ### Title: What a StoryBrand Website Actually Looks Like in Real Life ### Page ID: 9365796 ### Content: # What a StoryBrand Website Actually Looks Like in Real Life What a StoryBrand Website Actually Looks Like in Real Life You have a website. It has a bio, some testimonials, and maybe even professional photos. At first glance, it looks legit. In this solo episode, I walk through a full before-and-after transformation with my client Heidi Allsop. Her original site had all the usual stuff. What it didn't have was a story. And that's what kept visitors from booking a discover call with her. If your website is live and sitting quiet, this one is worth your time. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Kris:** If you have a website and you're not getting clients from it, this episode is for you. Today I'm gonna take you inside a real client transformation, meaning you're gonna be able to see the before site, the during site, and the after site, and I'm gonna walk you through exactly what my client had before and what we changed to make it actually work for her. So today I'm featuring my client Heidi Allsop of Heidi Allsop Coaching, and she has been such a, a joyful client to work with, and she has been generous enough to allow me to share her story today on the episode. So I'm very excited for you to all learn about her, and \[00:01:00\] also learn about the transformation that she went through so then you can apply those same learnings to your own website. By the end of the episode, you're gonna understand what was broken with her first website, what we fixed, and then again, you can take this and apply it to your own website today. So let me show you what we're, we're originally working with. If you are on YouTube, great, you can watch along with me here. If you're listening to this, don't worry, you do not need to watch it. I'm going to literally talk you through every detail, just kick back and you'll get to hear the transformation unfold. So let me show you what I'm working with here. So on the left is Heidi's original website. So this is what she had when she came to me, and some of the things that she was struggling with was really just fundamentally getting the amount of clients that she wanted. She wanted to work with people one-on-one. She wanted to grow her coaching practice to a point where she \[00:02:00\] could do group coaching. She wanted to be able to charge more. She wanted to make more money. She really wanted to help and reach more people. So on her website, you'll see here on the left is a beautiful photo of Heidi, and, One of the things that Heidi did really well was that she got professional photos taken of herself. And if you want to appear like a legitimate business, you really need to get photos taken of yourself. and in this day and age, you know, you can use ChatGPT to, to generate photos for you, but really nothing compares to a real photo of youtaken by a photographer who can really capture you and your essence. So I wanna congratulate Heidi on taking the time and investing in getting photos done. I also wanna congratulate Heidi on getting this website built and live. She did it herself. She, started her coaching business. She \[00:03:00\] bootstrapped her website, and I by no means wanna come off as critical of this website because really there's no shortcut through the phase of bootstrapping your business at the very beginning. There's so much learning that happens when you build your own website, when you get your business off the ground, as far as just, like, learning the tech that you need to learn, but also figuring out the right words, figuring out what resonates. we all know in that first year or two of, of business when you DIY your own website, you know, you don't have to DIY your own website, but I find that the clients that I work with that have DIY'd their own website, they just have a deeper understanding of what works and what doesn't, and they feel more empowered to go back into the website once they have the right words and make those updates. So kudos to Heidi for getting this website designed and built, for taking the time to get professional photos taken, and for following \[00:04:00\] her heart with the work that she is doing. What's incredible about Heidi is that she is a mom to five boys. Are you kidding me? Five boys, and her youngest boy is, about to graduate from high school in June, and so he's gonna be out of the nest here shortly. So she's done such an incredible job with these boys that her mission in life is to help other moms of boys navigate those teenage years with more connection, and more peace. So anyway, that's, like, a little bit of o- an overview about Heidi, but what I wanna talk through on her website, so on the left we've got her before website, her old website. The first thing I read when I land on her page is, "Free guide: The Boy Mom's Blueprint. Get my eight simple tips for moms to connect and engage with their sons." So couple things are going on here. number one, when somebody lands on your website, \[00:05:00\] you want to answer these three questions: What do you do? How's it gonna make my life better? And what do you want me to do next? So those three questions that have to be answered right when somebody lands on your website are not being answered on Heidi's old website. She, is featuring her freebie. I'm a big believer in freebies, but there is a time and a place for a freebie to appear. So asking somebody to Sign up for your freebie right when they land on your page is a little bit premature. It's kind of like, walking up to somebody and asking them to give you their phone number before you've actually introduced yourself, talked to them, established a relationship, established some trust. so really what we wanna do is take a moment to connect with the visitor, educate them on what Heidi does, show them why it's worthwhile to engage with her, \[00:06:00\] to learn from her, and then a little bit farther down the page, it would be more appropriate to, present the free guide, The Boy Mom's Blueprint. and I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you how we did that in her after website in a minute. So, that's happening number one. So again, what do you do, how's it gonna make my life better, and what do you want me to do next? in her main call to action here on her before website, it says, "Get the guide." And so, really want, what Heidi wants people to do is book a call with them. So let's not hide that call to action, and let's make it front and center. So on the after website, what we did for Heidi is change the words to, I help frustrated moms of teenage boys stop arguing and start connecting. Create the peaceful, joyful relationship you both deserve. Book your reconnection strategy call." Notice how I integrated a \[00:07:00\] benefit into the call so the visitor knows they're gonna actually get value. They're gonna get a strategy for how to reconnect with their teenage boy. The other thing that's coming through here in the after website is we're really articulating that she's helping moms of teenage boys. In the before website, there was, nowhere on the page that really clarified teenage boys, and we all know our boys at, if you, if you're a boy mom, your boy at two, your boy at eight, your boy at, at 11 is very different than an actual teenage boy. I can only imagine. I have an eight-year-old boy, so I'm, I'm, projecting here. so in the after website, in five seconds we're communicating what she does, how it's gonna make my life better, and what we want them to do next. This is really, really clear now. You can see the comparison of the before and after.now what I wanna do is move down the page a little bit of the \[00:08:00\] before. Again, Heidi's photos are beautiful. They're very connected. She's looking right into the camera, which creates, a lot of... it just builds trust and creates connection, so we, we want that. then we've got Heidi introducing herself. "Hi, I'm Heidi. I'm a wife, mom to five sons, social worker, and certified life coach." so she's kind of introducing herself, which of course, like, this happens on almost all the websites out there, especially for coaches and consultants. we introduce ourselves because that's what feels natural and normal. But what we really wanna do before we even introduce Heidi is show the visitor what's in it for them. Like, what... Really, why does this matter to them? And before we even do that, We want them to understand that we get it. We understand their problem. So what's happening in the before website is she is asking somebody to sign up for her \[00:09:00\] free guide before I know exactly what she does. Then she's introducing herself, which as she would tell you now, that she says, "I was making myself the hero of my own story." And again, I don't fault her for this, because this is how we figure out the right way to do it, and also, this is how most of the templates are set up. If you're, whether you're using Wix or WordPress or Squarespace or something else, typically the templates are set up to position you as the hero instead of your client as the hero. So really, when I go through this website, we've got her free guide, and then she's introducing herself, and then we've got the free guide again, and then we've got some testimonials. And what's happening with the testimonials is, number one, they haven't been edited down to really be streamlined and be really clearso number one, if you have \[00:10:00\] testimonials, edit out the fluff and keep the meat. number two, if you have testimonials, do not put them on auto-rotate. It can be really frustrating. Like right now I'm looking at her testimonials, and they're rotating, when I get to about the fourth word of the testimonial, it rotates to the next testimonial. It's on a carousel. And what that ends up doing is making me feel frustrated, and I know working with Heidi is an enjoyable, wonderful experience, but when the experience of your website is frustrating for people, it reflects on what it would feel like to work with you. So if I'm overwhelmed by trying to read these testimonials and feeling frustrated 'cause I can't read them fast enough before they change, that feeling of frustration ends up reflecting poorly on Heidi's brand. And so when people land on our website, we really want them to feel held. We want our websites to \[00:11:00\] really feel like a hug. Welcome, I, you're finally here. I'm so glad you're here. Let me make it easy for you to understand what I do and how I can help you, and that you're not alone in this struggle in raising a teenage boy. I mean, it's gotta be really freaking hard to raise five boys. Hard to even imagine. Okay, so what I, what I wanna really get across here is that Heidi has a handful of sections on the page, but really there is no story being told. There's no story being told on this page. and when I compare it to the new one, I'm gonna walk you through the difference. So the big mistakes made here are asking for the freebie too early, too prematurely, not communicating what she does, how it can make my life better, and what y- what she wants me to do next within the first five seconds of landing on the page. when she \[00:12:00\] introduces herself, she does it in a way that actually positions her as the hero instead of the guide. That's another mistake that's happening here. And then she hasn't- Taken the time to really edit down the testimonials to just the meat, just the, the gold nuggets of her testimonials, really what was her client struggling with, and how did working with her resolve that problem. Everything else in the testimonial is total fluff, so you can edit that out, keep the meat, and then take it off of auto-rotate, because people read at different rates, and we don't wanna create the feeling of frustration when someone's landing on our website. So on the right-hand side, if you're on YouTube, great. Again, I'm gonna walk you through it if you're listening to this. We've got that hero section very clearly communicating what she does. Then what we're gonna do next is really allow our hero to \[00:13:00\] feel seen, feel heard, feel not alone in their struggle, and we do that by articulating what their problem is. when I talk about this, I want you to think back on when you talk to a potential client on a call. What are they complaining about in their words? We wanna start with the overarching problem. For Heidi, it's many moms of teenage boys try to fix their son's behavior, then blame themselves when nothing changes. Are you struggling with arguments that leave you both retreating to separate corners of the house, lying awake wondering if you're ruining him because you don't understand boys, walking on eggshells rather, rather than enjoying these fleeting teenage years, wondering if what is happening with your son is normal? Quote, unquote, "normal." So what we're doing here is really connecting with the visitor, just like if you were to have a five-minute coffee date with somebody. You would sit \[00:14:00\] down. You would not launch into what you do and how you can help. You would sit down with somebody, and you'd look at them in the eye and go, "What's going on for you? tell me, what are you struggling with? What are you hoping to achieve?" these moments of connection really, really matter, and we want your website to do that job as if we want it to feel like you're sitting down and connecting with them over coffee. Of course, we're not, because we're on a website, but we want it to feel that way. Then you'll notice in the next section we have not talked about Heidi at all yet. We're just articulating their problem, because if they don't have a problem... To solve, there is no reason for them to hire Heidi. So the other thing that's happening here when we articulate the problem is that we're, we're kind of aggravating the problem. We're reminding them that this is a problem. Oftentimes as humans, we get used to our problems, and we forget that they're even problems. So we wanna, articulate the problem in a way that reminds them that this is a \[00:15:00\] problem, and reminds them that it doesn't have to be this way. So next what we're gonna do is really show them what's possible. At this point on the website, their brains are asking three questions: What, what's in it for me? What's in it for me? And what's in it for me? So we wanna spoon feed that information to them right away so they don't have to put forth any effort to gather this information. And on Heidi's initial website, this part was nowhere to be found. So we're gonna move in ... First we have the problem section, now we're gonna move into the, happy end result. These are not features of what you do. This is what their life will look like after they've worked with you. So we begin this section with a philosophical statement, "You deserve to truly enjoy your relationship with your son, not just endure it. Transform communication. Turn arguments into meaningful conversation. Restore connection. Build the relationship you \[00:16:00\] both want. Build confidence. Replace doubt with a clear parenting plan that gives peace of mind and impacts generations." So wow, oh my gosh, if I am a teenage boy mom, which I will be in about five years, She would really be speaking to my heart at this point, and I would say, "Okay, I am in. I am invested. I'll have what she's having. I want what she's offering." so that's the power of this. Notice we're not talking about Heidi yet at all. We're only talking about her hero. We're only talking about her client. We're showing them that they matter to us more than anything else. So now that we've positioned her client as the hero of our story And we've done that just by talking about them, and talking about the things that they care about, and showing them that we understand. Now is the very first time on the page that they're like, "Okay, I'm interested. Who's behind all this?" they're finally reached a point where they actually care who \[00:17:00\] Heidi is and what she's all about. So I really like to introduce Heidi here in video, and I wrote her a video script, and she recorded it, and we have it here on the page. If the visitor is not in a place that they can watch video, we wanna do the same thing. We wanna introduce her as the guide, and really lead with empathy. So instead of, you'll notice on the left, instead of, "Hi, I'm Heidi," we have, "I get it. It's painful when you and your son don't see eye to eye." Oh my gosh, how much more powerful is that from, Hi, I'm Heidi," to, "I get it. It's painful when you and your son don't see eye to eye." Oh my gosh, empathy is the simplest and most powerful way for you to show up for your potential clients as a strong guide. And then we go deeper into that here. \[00:18:00\] It's really about Heidi, but it's about Heidi as it relates to her clients. So Technically, it's an About section, but we're really talking about Heidi, but we're talking about it in a way that, that her hero, the, in the way that they care about. So we've got, "I know you want to be a calm, confident, and capable mom who enjoys her son. In order to do that, you need to reconnect with your boy. The problem is many moms of teenage boys try to fix their son's behavior, then blame themselves when nothing changes. This can leave you feeling frustrated, overwhelmed, and even more disconnected. You deserve to enjoy a deep, meaningful connection with your son that will last a lifetime. That's why, as a certified coach and mother of five sons, I've made it my mission to help moms just like you. Together, we'll transform daily battles into meaningful conversations, and create the joyful relationship you've always wanted." So that is Heidi stepping into this story as the guide. Now- When I talk about kind of story brand and how to integrate story \[00:19:00\] brand into your website, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Every story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. They are looking for a guide who can come in, give them a plan that calls them to action, and that ultimately leads them to success and helps them avoid failure. So all of those components of story brand are all present and working together on the page to help Heidi's website do the work of getting her clients and growing her business. So anyway, she is doing a really great job, and, I would love for you to check out her website and you can see this in action. It's Heidi Allsop Coaching, A-L-L-S-O-P coaching.com. That's Heidi with an I, H-E-I-D-I A-L-L-S-O-P coaching.com. So you'll notice on this page after the guide section, we're building her authority here by showing how many years she's spent raising \[00:20:00\] boys, 30-plus years raising five boys, over 1,000 women coached, and that She is certified as a life coach. Then what we're gonna do, as I mentioned, we wanna give our hero a three-step plan that calls them to action. So for Heidi, we've got, "Here's how it works. Book your 30-minute reconnection strategy call." Step two, "Get the one-on-one coaching support that you need," and step three, "Enjoy a peaceful relationship with your son." We always want the step three of the plan to be that happy end result to reassure their brain that the end is not as far off or a- as impossible as they, they think it is. Now, we've got some photography here on Heidi's page. Now we have testimonials on the page, that are not moving. They're static, they're, they're concise, they're easy to read, and they're actually paired with images of the actual client. When you put a photograph of your client with the testimonial, they become much, much, much more believable \[00:21:00\] and they're, not rotating, which is really important. We designed an infographic for Heidi that shows how her approach is unique. I love Venn diagrams, and what we did was we have three different circles in a Venn diagram, and they overlap to create the joyful mother-son relationship roadmap. And so I want you to think about what are the three things, like what are the end three ingredients that come together that allow you to create transformation for your clients? For Heidi, we've got authentic connection in one circle, strategic guidance in another circle, and real-world wisdom in the third circle, and they all overlap to create the joyful mother-son relationship. Infographics are a really wonderful and, effective way to build trust and really show how you're different from everybody else. So one of the things that I mentioned in StoryBrand was that we help our clients find success, but we also help them avoid \[00:22:00\] failure. That's called stakes. If there are no stakes in your story, there is nothing compelling about it. There's no reason to engage with it. So for Heidi, I asked her, "What is at stake?" And we came up with this statement: "Don't miss out on the joy of watching your son grow up because you're too busy arguing with him." Wow, what a strong, bold statement, and so clear. I think of the stakes section as like you gently putting your hand on your client's back and saying, "Hey, if you do nothing, nothing's gonna change." So then we've got Heidi's offerings here. She's got three different packages. and the other thing I wanted to show you, this is the before and after of her freebie. So we've got a free five-minute video guide, so allowing people to actually get to know her and watch a video of her teaching them. This is much- Better than a blueprint or a checklist or a PDF, right? \[00:23:00\] We, people, humans wanna see you, they wanna get to know you, they wanna learn from you, and all that is, is done better via video than a downloadable PDF. So we've got Raising Good Men: The Essential Roadmap for Moms of Teen Boys, and then we have three very clear benefits that they're gonna get when they download this guide. So always wanna really reassure people that there's a lot of benefit to this. before we wrap up, I want to also tell you a little thing that we did for Heidi pretty recently. We wanted to come up with an incentive for her clients to buy from her. So sh- she was having, she's getting a lot of people booking calls, which is great, and what we ended up doing was integrating an incentive into that sales call. So her clients, they want her help, but they also want her to help their sons, and most parenting coaches won't work directly with the teenage boys. They just will work with the parents. So she offered, she said, "If you join my coaching \[00:24:00\] program within the next 24 hours, I will, will include a, a free 90-minute session with your boy, directly one-on-one with your boy. That way everyone's getting on the same page and we can all work together." And I checked in with her yesterday and she said she had three consult calls last week, and two of the three of them became clients, and these are high-ticket clients. So it is working. People want to buy, but often they just need an incentive to do so. So now what I want you to do quickly is pull up your website and- Audit it. I want you to ask yourself, are you answering these three questions when somebody lands on your website? What do you do? How's it gonna make their life better? And what do you want them to do next? Are you doing that? Do you have a freebie? Do you have a way for people to sign up onto your email list? Are you delivering that freebie via video or via PDF? I'm really hoping that it's video, because it allows the potential client to really get to know you and \[00:25:00\] get a feel for what it's like to learn from you. So if your website does not have those things, if your testimonials aren't clear, if it doesn't have all the components of story that we just talked through, what I want you to do is book a money-making messaging call with me. This will be 40 minutes of you and me one-on-one. We're gonna look at your website. We're gonna identify what's working, what's not, what needs to be tuned up, and there's no obligation on that call. if you are interested and you are a good fit, I'll walk you through what it would look like to work together. But regardless, we'll get a look at your website, and you'll walk away with a clear plan for what to do next. Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - The one thing missing from Heidi's site that no one would've guessed - Why the order you introduce yourself actually matters - The testimonial mistake that makes potential clients feel frustrated - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/sprint ### Title: Sprint ### Page ID: 9390073 ### Content: # A 30-day StoryBrand Sprint. #### Strategies that make more ideal clients say "yes." You show up. You post. You network. You tweak your website for the hundredth time. And yet something still isn't clicking. The right clients aren't finding you. The ones who do find you can't quite explain what you do. And you're spending more time on your marketing than on actually running your business. You don't have a hustle problem. You have a messaging problem. **What if you had an expert in your corner for 30 days?** Someone who knows exactly where to focus, what to fix first, and how to make your message do the heavy lifting so you don't have to. Not sure if this is the right fit? Book a call and let's talk. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Book](/book) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) 1. We start with a deep dive strategy call where we map out your 30-day priorities and get clear on your core story. Then we meet weekly for three more coaching calls, each one focused on what matters most that week. 2. You implement. Kris guides you. 3. No rabbit holes. No wasted effort. Just clear direction and expert feedback every step of the way. - A message that makes the right people say "that's exactly what I need" - A clear plan for the strategies that will get more clients to say yes - A business that works harder for you without you working harder for it - You've read Building a StoryBrand or StoryBrand Your Coaching Business and you're ready to implement - You've been DIYing your marketing and know something isn't working - You want expert eyes on your work without the full done-for-you investment - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand ### Title: StoryBrand ### Page ID: 9407239 ### Content: # Want to make more dream clients say “*yes*”? # Pre-order and get 3 *free* limited-time bonuses! #### Podcast Mini-Series #### Fix Your Homepage Training #### Soundbite Strategy Challenge # If you sell your expertise, your thinking, or your time, this book is for you. #### Because what you're really selling is a transformation. # Eighty-two percent of coaching businesses *fail* within the first year. #### **And most of those coaches are genuinely good at helping people.** #### **The problem isn't skill. It's clarity.** #### Potential clients visit a coach's website or read a post and think: #### "***I like this person... but I'm not sure they can actually help me.***" # Whether you're a longtime StoryBrand fan or *just getting started*, this book will meet you where you are. # How these strategies have helped grow *simple* and *profitable* businesses. #### I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! Best money spent. #### I'm closing 95% of my sales calls now that I have clarity. #### I saw a 986% increase in conversions in the first 30 days! #### I'm now charging 6X more for the exact same service. #### I booked my first $15K speaking gig using my new messaging. #### Clients are already sold before I get on the call. # Written by the creator of StoryBrand and one of the first guides to prove it works for coaches. #### Donald Miller, StoryBrand Founder #### Kris Jones, Red Door Founder # Got Questions? # Don't spend another year being the best-kept secret in your industry. *StoryBrand Your Coaching Business* gives you 12 simple strategies to attract better clients, charge more, and build a coaching business that's both profitable and fulfilling. Get early access to a private seven-part podcast series with Donald Miller and Kris Jones, where they unpack the biggest ideas from the book and show you how to put them to work before the official release. Steal the exact homepage formula Kris uses to turn visitors into clients. In this 60-minute training, you'll learn what to say, what to remove, and how to build trust in seconds so more people book. Join Kris for a live 3-day challenge and leave with a soundbite that makes people instantly understand what you do. Plus, get exclusive Day 4 VIP hot-seat coaching with Donald Miller. Normally $297, free when you pre-order. **Consultants, Financial Advisors, Therapists, and Service Providers have achieved incredible results with these strategies.** From Bestselling Author, Donald Miller, and the StoryBrand Coach of Coaches, Kris Jones Founder of StoryBrand and Host of the [*StoryBrand Podcast*](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-storybrand-podcast/id1092751338) Host of top-rated Podcast: [***From Click to Client***](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/from-click-to-client-brand-messaging-website-marketing/id1787187223) & Founder of Red Door Stories When people don't understand what you do, they don't book the call. They forget about you. Kris Jones has spent more than twenty years in marketing and nearly a decade alongside Donald Miller and the StoryBrand team, watching this happen to brilliant coaches who deserved better. That's why Kris Jones and Donald Miller wrote this book. **Inside are 12 practical strategies designed specifically for coaches, consultants, and service providers.** Create soundbites people remember, repeat, and share Turn your website into a reliable client-generating tool Book discovery calls and close them with confidence Build a waitlist of ideal clients instead of chasing leads Move from unpredictable months to steady, repeatable revenue Donald Miller is the bestselling author of Building a StoryBrand which has helped hundreds of thousands of businesses clarify their message and grow. His book has sold over one million copies. Known as the coach of coaches, Kris Jones is one of Donald Miller's first certified StoryBrand Guides. Over the last 20 years, she has helped thousands of experts turn what they know into thriving and profitable businesses. I've already read Building a StoryBrand. Is this book still for me? Yes. StoryBrand is the framework. This book is the application, specifically for coaches and consultants. You'll take what you already know and finally see how to use it in the context of selling coaching — which is fundamentally different from selling a product or service. Two reasons. First, the three bonuses valued at $1097 are only for people who pre-order by October 19. They go away on launch day. Second, pre-orders help decide how widely the book gets distributed. Coaches make the world better, one person at a time. But they can't help anyone if no one can tell what they do. The more coaches who find this book, the more people they get to reach. Pre-ordering helps put it in their hands. I'm a consultant or advisor, not technically a "coach." Is this still relevant? Absolutely. If you sell your expertise, your thinking, or your time — if what you're really selling is a transformation — this book is for you. Consultants, financial advisors, therapists, and service providers of all kinds have used these strategies with significant results. What if I'm just starting out? Is this too advanced? This book is helpful for people in the early stages because it shows you how to build on a clear foundation from the start. Coaches who begin with clear messaging grow faster and waste less money on marketing that doesn't work. What if I'm just starting out? Is this too advanced? The official release date is October 20, 2026. Your pre-order will be fulfilled by Amazon on or around that date. The bonuses, however, are available immediately once you submit your receipt before October 15. Pre-order the book on Amazon, then submit your order confirmation number using this form. You'll get access to the podcast series right away, and you'll receive details for the live events via email. Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/why-business-owners-avoid-video-kirsten-graham ### Title: Why Business Owners Avoid Video And What It Costs Them with Kirsten Graham ### Page ID: 9427830 ### Content: # Why Business Owners Avoid Video And What It Costs Them with Kirsten Graham Why Business Owners Avoid Video And What It Costs Them with Kirsten Graham You have something to say that would make a great video. But you still haven't hit record. There's always a reason to put it off. Maybe you don't like hearing your own voice or the way you look on screen. And so another month goes by. In the new episode of the *From Click to Client Podcast*, I'm talking with video strategist Kirsten Graham, who started her first YouTube channel in 2006. Her first video was, by her own description, terrible. She cringed watching it back. But she posted it anyway, and it worked. You don't need perfect gear. You just need a reason to show up and the willingness to get better over time. This episode makes that case better than anything I've heard in a while. **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Kris:** So, Kristen Graham, welcome to the show. I am so delighted and excited to have you here today because we're gonna talk about one of the things that my clients. Usually avoid like the plague. Kristen is a brilliant video strategist who helps her clients get really good, with podcasting, get really good and effective with. YouTube videos and all kinds of video, and I think in this day and age, if you are not doing video, you are really missing the boat. You are working harder than you need to be because you're not using videos. So today is gonna be your wake up call. Kristen, welcome **Kirsten:** Kris. Thank you so much for having me at, you may be in \[00:01:00\] trouble because I could talk about this for hours. **Kris:** I'm in. I'm ready. I'm me too. This is such a fun topic. **Kris:** yeah, tell us, tell us a little bit about you, what you do, the problems that you solve. **Kirsten:** Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a business coach, but I'm an outsourcing specialist and my business partner owned a digital marketing agency for years. So she's a marketing coach and also an outsourcing specialist. So we are really focused on helping clients. Who need to get out in front of their audience. They don't necessarily want to be influencers, but they want to showcase their authority and expertise and let people really see who they are and connect with them through their marketing, ideally through their video marketing or their podcast. So we have a really detailed process for how we help our clients do that. And then we train virtual assistants to take care of everything on the backend for them. So they get to show up and just be involved in these great conversations and then upload the video and everything else is done for them. So that's what we do. **Kris:** What a gift. What a gift. I, we were just talking before I hit record about the reality that. You know, I \[00:02:00\] love podcasting. I love having a podcast. I love guesting on podcasts, but none of it would happen if I didn't have a VA to manage all the details because the. As business owners, our plates are full. And adding a podcast to your plate is a really smart idea. creating videos for YouTube is a really smart idea, but you really do need help and I do highly recommend that you don't do this. All by yourself. there are better areas in your business that you should be putting your attention into. And I am, I am very curious. Kristen, what's your process? How do you do this? **Kirsten:** Yeah, so we work with our clients on. Helping them with their strategy. We really encourage everyone to have a video podcast. Some of our clients are still talk, creating, basically talking HeadStyle videos for YouTube. So we really work with both types of clients. We help them with their strategy. We help them understand, all the technology that they need. We help them to build their confidence on camera. \[00:03:00\] **Kirsten:** We talk to them about how to book great guests. So we really do everything to support the client to get up and running. And as soon as they have a couple of their episodes recorded, we actually interview, vet, and train virtual assistants, who then we pair them with a client. Then they work directly with that client. I like to say we're not a marketing agency and we're not an outsourcing agency. Our model's very different because we wanted to find a way to empower the client to start to build their own team and also to make it cost effective so that they could afford to do this long-term. A lot of times people will implement marketing strategies or hire an agency or what ads or whatever that looks like, but before long it becomes too expensive. And so they, they let it fall by the wayside, so we wanted to make sure that our clients have the opportunity. To end up creating a podcast that can have longevity, giving them the opportunity to get better as a podcast host, and to really understand all the different ways that they can monetize a podcast and to be able to focus on those things rather than video editing and audio \[00:04:00\] editing and uploading and graphic design and all the things that come with having a podcast. **Kris:** Right. Right. Which is. What, what I've read anyway is the biggest challenge is actually keeping your podcast going. So you really set your clients up to do well, both because it's affordable and because you've got help and because you can just focus on the most important things. What are, what are the stats today around how many podcasts are coming out and. From what I've heard, no, I, I don't have any numbers on this, but like a lot of podcasts are only around for four or eight episodes, is that right? **Kirsten:** That's correct. The majority, you have a lot of people who drop off after three episodes, and then you have the people who make it to like eight or 12. So they kind of have like one season or you know, done. But at the 24 month mark, only 7% of people are podcasting. So if you're thinking, wow, there's so many podcasts out there, there's no room for me. First of all, understand that once a podcast produced, it's always out \[00:05:00\] there, but it doesn't mean it's an active or live podcast, meaning that there's not new episodes being added consistently. So when we talk with our clients about. Starting a podcast, you know, part of my conversation is this isn't something you wanna take on and do, just to test the waters, right? You wanna find out ahead of time if this is something you think you would enjoy and be able to commit to. Because the longevity is important with marketing consistency, showing up, getting better. We were talking earlier before this call that when you're a guest on a podcast or you host a podcast every single time you have this opportunity to get better at and show up in a really real way. And in the beginning, you're terrified, right? So you're not always showing up your best. But with each episode. You get a little better and a little better to the point where you know you have something that's real. People, when they watch your videos, when they listen to your podcast, you're showing up authentically as yourself and that comes through next to meeting someone in person. Video builds no like and trust better than anything else. So if you can't get in the same room with someone, the second best thing is video \[00:06:00\] content creating stuff that your audience will enjoy. And again, that will let them see who, who you are. I always like to say you, I talk with my hands. If, if you run into me on the street, you know what you see in this podcast is what you're gonna get if we start having a conversation. And you know, people I think are so afraid, well, what if someone doesn't like me? Or, you know, what if I mess up or something? But. The reality is that the right people are gonna be attracted to you and how you deliver information and what you talk about, and those are your ideal clients. **Kris:** Hmm. So tell me about the strategy behind, you know, before anything, right? You wanna. You really wanna be thoughtful and strategic. So if I did not have a podcast, tell me what we would work through to figure out the strategy, because the, the worst thing you wanna do is to jump in with both feet and go down this path without a clear plan and without intention around. Who you wanna speak to? What are the end goals of this podcast? Do you want the podcast to get you more clients? Are you just doing it for fun? I \[00:07:00\] think we all know, like our time is precious. So typically we do podcasts because we wanna get in front of more people and we wanna attract more clients. So, curious like yeah, how you navigate the, the strategic, the prep work part of your work. **Kirsten:** Yeah. It's interesting because I think you and I went down a different path. Jeannie and I started hosting a podcast first, and then I started guesting on podcast. You started guesting first and then you started your podcast. Your way's probably the smarter way. Right, so the first thing I would do with talking with someone who is really thinking about having a podcast, but they're not a hundred percent sure, I would encourage them to get booked on a few podcasts and have the experience from that side, you know, of, of the mic, so to speak. Yeah. And that would be the first step. The other thing is I would want to know what types of podcasts do they listen to? What style of podcasting do they like? And then more importantly, their ideal client. We talk about what other podcasts do you think your ideal clients are listening to? And I \[00:08:00\] think that's a great way to start Market. Market research is something in any part of a business that most business owners do not take seriously enough. And I always like to use the example of McDonald's. We all know what they sell. Two whole beef patty, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun. Like we know. **Kirsten:** But the reality is they spend millions of dollars before they're gonna roll out something like the mc rib. Or before they're gonna put a new, new location. Because spending that money in the market research, even though it sounds like a lot of money, you'd rather in McDonald's case, spend a couple million than to lose 20 or 30 million. Okay? And so the small business owners, we often do not do enough market research. So the first thing is, what podcast are your ideal clients listening to now? And then after that, if you're gonna have a co podcast with guests. What type of guests do you wanna have on your podcast? What topics do you feel like would really bring a lot of value to your ideal clients? And I think those are important conversations to have in the beginning. And then also, is your goal to monetize it by getting clients? Is your goal to monetize it by getting affiliate \[00:09:00\] partnerships? You know, we end up with a lot of collaborations with the other podcast hosts that we work with and the guests that we work with. Do you plan on spelling, selling sponsorships? There's lots of different ways you can make money with a podcast, but going into it with a strategy I think is so important, and I think the most important part of that strategy is who's your ideal client and what content do you feel like you would wanna talk about on a consistent basis that would truly help them and let them see that you're there to serve them. **Kris:** Mm. I love it. you mentioned trying to figure out what style of podcast that you wanna do. Tell me more about that. What, what are the styles of podcasts and how do you figure out what that is and what's best for you? **Kirsten:** Right, so first of all, I, we always recommend a video podcast. You know, YouTube is the largest podcasting platform. A lot of people don't realize this, but Spotify and Apple both want you to upload a video podcast now. But if someone is more old school and they would rather have an audio podcast, if that's really their thing, I would say do that. A hundred percent video is so important. But at the same time, if \[00:10:00\] someone is really, again, they really have listened to podcasts for years and they still like that traditional audio podcast, if that's how you feel about it, start there. Do that. Some people want more of a podcast where it's just them and they're talking about different topics week after week. That's fantastic. Other people want to invite guests on and have conversations again, around topics that'll, you know, will benefit their audience. Some people will do a mix of podcasts. It may be one week, it's just them, and the following week it's a guest. So there's lots of different ways to create your podcast, you know, and also a little bit of research, you know, is the ideal time for your podcast, 15 to 20 minutes. Should it be 45 minutes to an hour? And I think a lot of that depends on the topic and the types of conversations you're having. We know a lot of people that have five minute podcasts. I did one of those the other day. It was rapid fire. It was super fun, and I could see the value in that. It wouldn't be necessarily my style because I like deeper conversations, but I, I totally enjoyed the, the experience. I watched a lot of the different episodes and they were all fantastic. So again, what does your \[00:11:00\] ideal client want? To listen to. Mm-hmm. And then what do you feel like you really aligns with who you are as a person? **Kris:** What's trending right now? I have heard that the 20 minute Mark podcast is a bit of a sweet spot for people. 'cause they can go walk their dog or run a quick errand and digest the whole podcast at one time. **Kirsten:** Yeah, we try to keep our podcast between 20 and 25 minutes. And, and it is that true? It, it is the reason that it's walking the dog or it's the commute to work. Okay. Or the commute home. So I feel like that, that that area, that that timeline is ideal for both of those things. And it's not so long that people have to pause and then come back to it later and maybe they won't come back to it. It's not to the point where they're, oh, there's only five to 10 minutes left. I'll just, you know, bounce off and forget about it. So I, I do think there's a lot of data that showcases that, that is a very good timeline. But it's interesting because again, like you, I've been a guest on a lot of different podcasts, and sometimes those podcasts are an hour long, but the way the conversations go, it really warrants that time. \[00:12:00\] So if, if you are not, you know, I always like to say. The, the episode or the information needs to deliver on the promise of the title. So if our title today for this podcast is, you know, the power of video marketing and podcasting, we wanna make sure that we have a conversation that leaves the person, with a full understanding of that ti like of what we talked about, what is the power of it. We wanna give you that information. And so if that conversation is really rich and it, it's adding a ton of value, it, it can be a lot longer, but you don't wanna drag something out just to have it. Have a longer podcast, I guess you wanna make sure you're delivering concise. Valuable information and wrapping it up in, in at the end of that value. I guess I don't, I'm rambling here. Sorry. **Kris:** Yeah, no, that's great. Well, well, it'll lengthen the, the podcast length. yeah. 'cause I'm thinking about Tim Ferris, who's a really famous podcaster who I've. Listened to his podcast for years, years and years, and he is really known for number one, not editing his podcasts. He has great interviews and they go as long as they \[00:13:00\] need to go, but he, they're, they're not. Fluff. They're not filled with fluff like it, it is quality, quality content. So he has longer episodes and they're very much unedited and you kind of feel like you're a fly on the wall and that's, you know, different than maybe that 20 minute sweet spot. But it works for him and his audience really appreciates those longer, deeper conversations You mentioned, Working with clients around their confidence, and I would say like, I think we're both in alignment. Video's really important. You have to have video if you wanna stand out, if you wanna be sought after, if you want to build the trust, that is absolutely crucial to getting, getting a client, right? A client will only work with you if they trust you, if they know, like, and trust you, but that trust. It can be built so efficiently with video, but the clients that I work with and the websites that I, that I write and build, they always have a video component to them. I, I always say, you just gotta \[00:14:00\] have video. And if you're uncomfortable with that, well, so is everybody else, and that's okay. Like, there are ways to allow you to get in front of the camera and. Not freeze or not feel uncomfortable. There's a lot of little tricks that you can do to help you kind of just gently jump over that hurdle. But, but the reality is, like, and this is true for me too, like I don't look forward to recording videos and talking to the camera. I wouldn't consider it fun. I've gotten better at it. it's less painful than it used to be. But what would you say to somebody who. Who is feeling insecure or uncomfortable or dreading recording a video? how do you build confidence? **Kirsten:** Well, we can only build confidence by taking action and doing the hard thing, right? First of all, I don't think anyone likes the way they look or sound on, on video. You know, we hear ourselves and it sounds so different than when we hear ourselves talking. So I, I always \[00:15:00\] joke, unless you're a total narcissist, you probably don't enjoy watching yourself on video or listening to yourself on video. So first of all, congratulations, you're perfectly normal and you're not a narcissist. But it, it's like anything else. One of the things I think that helps a lot of our clients is if you have a true desire to, to serve people, like, I always like to think even with this interview. Kris, if you and I help one person, if one person listens to this and it really helps them, I feel like we win and we've done a good job. So lowering the bar to just like wanting to serve people and I, we don't really have any control over who sees this or who listens to it. All we can do is put it out there and have faith that it'll get in front of the right people. So I think for us, we talk a lot about serving your clients, showing up and just delivering information, even though. You're terrified to be on camera or you feel overwhelmed by being on camera. So that's, that's the first thing I would say. I am going to date myself because I just did some math. I realized we're in 2026 and I started my first YouTube channel in 2006, which was 20 years ago. **Kirsten:** And I started it in a very different industry. I owned a mortgage \[00:16:00\] company at the time, it was the end of 2026, early 2027. And to be honest, my first video that I did. Was done out of complete frustration. It was done to solve a problem. When a person would call about a mortgage, I would give them an entire list of documents. I would go over it with them on the phone of what they needed to bring in, and then I would email them a checklist, and inevitably we would get back, you know, 70% of the documents we needed, which meant our processors had to chase them down. Jeanie, my current business partner at that time, I was actually mentoring her with her business and she said, have you thought about doing a video for that? And I was like, well, no. And she said, well, you should. And then instead of sending them just the checklist, email them this video. My first video was so cheesy. It was like, I need your last two years of W twos, and then W twos popped up beside my face. You know, I need three months of bank statements in that popped up and I need all pages because if page number seven is completely blank, that's great, but the underwriter doesn't know. Page seven is completely blank. So it was just it. It was so bad. I think it \[00:17:00\] was comical or I think, which is why I think it worked. It was terrible. And you probably thinking, oh, this poor lady did this video, so we should probably pay attention to it and bring in the documents. But we saw our documents go up, up, what people brought in went up to almost 90, 92%, which meant our processors weren't chasing as much. It made us way more efficient. So in that one video we learned quickly the video. People will listen to that and, and I started thinking about this, like, why did that happen? Well, if I'm talking to the wife, I'm talking to the husband. On that call and I'm telling them what we need. Well, then later that night after dinner, they're pulling out that list and they're getting it together. And you know the wife's saying, no, no. When I talked to her, she said she needs all pages and the husband's like, page seven is empty. She doesn't need that and throws it out. Right. So this put them both on the same page it or reinforced what I had the conversation about. So that was one of the things that I saw. The video is something that people will pay attention to and follow. That led us to creating more videos for a mortgage company. One of my loan officers, he did a hilarious video. It was what is an A, what is a PR? And he said, A PR stands for a pretty good rate, and if \[00:18:00\] you want that, you need to call Paul. But then of course he went on to explain, you know, a PR. So anyway, it was, we just had a lot of fun with our videos, and this is what I think blew me away, is when someone would come into the office and I hadn't, I, I'd never met them. I had not talked to them. They knew me. They're having conversation with me as if we were best friends. And I don't know if you've ever run into anyone like at your kid's game or on the street or something and they start talking to you and you're thinking, I don't know this person. How do I know this person? Where do I know this person from? It's very uncomfortable. That's the feeling I had, and that's when I realized, that's when I really got aha. The power of video is when people watch enough of your content, they feel like they know you. We always talk about know, like, and trust. That No. How they know you is, it is unbelievable. They know my dog's name because he would show up in the videos. They would know if we pulled some jokes on each other in the week or something like, so we just shared a lot of things, or, oh, I'd always love the color of your office. And now that I'm seeing it here, you know, it was just, it blew my mind. So if you're thinking about starting videos for your business, \[00:19:00\] it, a podcast, it may be uncomfortable. You may be terrible. That's okay. You're going to get better. And when we circle back to Tim Ferriss and not editing his, podcast, you know, that's a choice. You know, we edit our podcast because I feel like if someone's listening to a podcast, they may not, you know, they're just listening. But if someone's watching on YouTube, maybe they want visuals, maybe they want B-roll imagery because it makes it more interesting. but some people just enjoy watching. Two people have a great conversation. So it really depends on your audience and it, it depends on what you're comfortable with, but video editing is like having a magic wand, so I think that's also helpful when you first get started. **Kris:** Yeah. It, it really is. It's so effective. And once, once you experience that, it g it propels you to keep going with it. It's very encouraging. and I, I really believe that people hire you. Potential client will hire you after they've spent time with you. So how can we use video to allow people to spend time with us? When we're not even technically there. \[00:20:00\] Right. **Kirsten:** Yeah. And circling back to my mortgage company, that's exactly what our videos did. They were all educational, they were all value based. We tried to have fun in them. And so people, because they watched those videos, they got to know us, they got to know who the processors were. They, they knew kind of what the office looked like because we shot videos in different places. So the question of how do you get people to watch your video content is, first of all, you have to record videos. So that's step one. But then step two is you don't realize when you record a video, that video is working for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It's going onto YouTube, you're uploading it to Spotify, to Apple. It's being pulled from there to dozens of other podcasting platforms. Most of us don't even know what they know all of them or what they are, what they're called. But there are tons and tons of podcasting platforms. You can get your podcast put on iHeartRadio. There's all kinds of things you can do, but now you have this awesome asset that you can use for your marketing, so you can pull reels and stories and you can use those. On Instagram or LinkedIn or TikTok, wherever you want to use them. And it's really funny because with marketing, I just know we always ask people, you know, do you have \[00:21:00\] an email list? And they'll say, yes. Well, how big's your email list? I've got a thousand people. How often do you email them? I don't, or I have it in six months, and I find that the video content is a fantastic thing. Instead of an old school newsletter, each week you're just sending out a video to say, Hey, I had a fantastic conversation with this person about this topic, and it will probably help you with your business. Check it out. So now you're sending out something to your email list where they get to know you. It's interesting because when you're the host, I mean, right now your audience is getting to know more about me than you because you're the host, but they still get to know you and they, they get to see that you're bringing on great conversations. You're bringing people onto your podcast that can truly help them with their business. So now they know that you're a giving person. You can create your own commercials inside of your videos, so you can have commercial breaks where you talk about what you do. But I just think there's so many ways to get your videos in front of the right audience. The other thing is when you have a guest that's now a collaboration, so when this podcast goes live, Kris, you're gonna let us know and then we're gonna start marketing this podcast to our audience. So now all \[00:22:00\] of a sudden, people are now introduced to your podcast who maybe wouldn't have found it for a while, right? Because we're talking about it and we're sharing it. And that's the other thing I think I love so much about podcasting is it really is a collaboration. **Kris:** It really is. It really is. I have met several dear, dear friends via podcasting who I'm in touch with on a daily basis, and it's just, I never expected that to happen through this platform, and I. I couldn't agree more about the power of repurposing. So you and I are on a one hour call ish, and then we can take this content and share it with our newsletter. For every podcast that I record, it becomes a blog post. It becomes a newsletter. It becomes YouTube shorts. It becomes YouTube. Full length video. have I named all the ways you can repurpose the podcast or are there more that I don't know about? **Kirsten:** I think you've listed, I think you've listed them. But the other thing is, and I I think you do this as well, because I have a YouTube \[00:23:00\] channel. I'm going to share this interview on my, on my YouTube channel. So this episode will go onto your YouTube channel. Obviously you're the host, but then I can share it to a playlist on my YouTube channel. So you really, there's just so much leverage you can get from that one, that repurposing of that one video. But again, it's so crazy to me because sometimes I'll have someone reach out and book a sales call. They found us on YouTube or they found our podcast and, but sometimes they're quoting things to me from a video that was done six years ago. **Kirsten:** In this video you said this and I, I go back and I look at it up and I'm looking for that video and it's like, oh my gosh, that video is six years old. But after they watched some of our newer things, they went back and kind of started going through our videos and picked out some other ones they wanted to listen to, and they did. So that's, that really is powerful to me, is that you're creating. Something again, it's Evergreen 24 7 and it can be repurposed across multiple platforms. And again, you know, I feel like hopefully everybody feels like this conversation other than trying to sell them on the power of video. We're not coming on here just \[00:24:00\] to sell people, right? It's not like this is not an infomercial. Hey, hey, buy for me. This is if you own a business. We, both of us, you and I, Kris both believe. The video can truly help business owners to grow their businesses, to be seen as the experts, to be seen as the authority. It can make your marketing a lot easier because you have things to repurpose and that can help you become consistent, which is so important with marketing. **Kris:** Hmm. Yeah, I mean that, that's the beautiful thing about YouTube. It really is its own search engine. And unlike Instagram and Facebook where you're in the feed that day and then you kind of, you know, it kind of basically disappears over time. YouTube. People, if they search for what you're talking about, you will come up. And it doesn't matter if it was five or six years ago, you're there and you're teaching and helping and showing up with a helpful heart, solving a micro problem, proving to the listener that you can solve much bigger problems if you can solve small problems. it's such a wonderful way to begin a relationship with is generosity \[00:25:00\] and. Like I said, a really, truly helpful heart. I think, YouTube is, a really great place to invest your time and energy because it really does it, it is timeless. And the same thing for podcasts too, like how many times have you listened to a great podcast and then all of a sudden you, you binge all the other podcasts that they have. **Kirsten:** Yeah. It's funny because I, I, I just binge watched a series with a girlfriend and I love the joke, you know, before, you know, we had the possibility to watch TV shows back to back before the whole Netflix concept. If I had said to you, Hey, Kris, there's this seven and a half hour movie, would you like to go watch it on Saturday? You would've been like, no. But we could sit down and binge watch seven and a half hours of a TV show and not think twice about it. It really is the same thing with YouTube. If people get onto your content, especially, you have to remember. You're creating content for people who will, who may have that problem that you solve, but you don't know when they're gonna have that problem. So if they all of a sudden they, they're looking, they're searching and they find your content, that's when they are going to binge watch it, because \[00:26:00\] that's the challenge. They, they have. We work with a lot of real estate agents and I was at a networking thing the other night and one of the ladies walked up and she says, I'm working with a guy who just came in. I wanna say like he came in from Thailand. Don't quote me on the location, but he came in and she said he's our client because he found our videos. He's buying a house here, but he, he is our client simply because he found our videos. He watched a ton of them and she said, we have so many clients, they may not tell us when. They first reach out and connect with us that they found us through video. We try to ask, but inevitably, every time we meet with someone to show them a property or to go in to talk about listing their property, they start talking about the videos that they liked. And so that is so powerful. If you're a real estate agent and you have videos and, and the other agents in your area don't, that is definitely putting you, you know, ahead of the pack, so to speak. And especially with people being so transient. People are looking to move to different places, and so that's another powerful tool. Like we don't think about all the different industries and all the different businesses where video marketing and podcasting can have such a huge impact. \[00:27:00\] **Kris:** I think, one thing that I tell my clients, and I'm curious what your thoughts are with this, people don't expect a really high production quality. You don't have to go out and hire a videographer. You don't have to hire a professional editor if you don't want to. Like, the beautiful thing about this is, is it's so effective, it's so powerful, and you can really do it for pretty much free, you. You know, you can just hit, open up, zoom and hit record. You can speak into the camera, record it to your desktop drag and drop that over to Descrip, which is my favorite editing tool. And in five minutes, descrip has a bunch of ai,tools inside of it. Within about five or 10 minutes, you can be done with the whole thing. It's, it's pretty, low barrier to entry. **Kirsten:** You could even go faster than that. You could go to YouTube and hit live and just go live. There you go. Go on YouTube, right? **Kirsten:** Yeah. It really, it really is cost effective and it, it, it really can be quick and easy. It just, you know, it, it's all up to you how much you wanna put into it. But as far as professional grade, I \[00:28:00\] think there's a lot of data and research that does show. Again, the know, like, and trust is not built through perfection. They're not expecting us to be movie stars. They're not expecting us, you know, to be perfect speakers. They want to connect with us and see that we're a real person because you know, if they're gonna hire you or they're gonna hire us. It really is because they connect with us as people. We, we really buy from people, not just the product or service. Yes. And I think that's why it's so easy. **Kris:** Yeah. And, and still photography is of course, really important to have on your website and in your marketing, but what's still photography doesn't communicate is your tone of voice, your warmth, your confidence, your, your, a feeling of really just. Caring. there's so much that comes through in a simple video that you record on your computer or on your phone or on YouTube live. That, that just comes through and like within 15 seconds, right? It's just like that, that first impression. You know, immediately if you, if you click with someone or resonate \[00:29:00\] with them and it happens so quickly, so you don't have to have these long videos. I think a one minute video on your website or on your social media, even in your email, signature is going to carry you a long way. Do you agree? **Kirsten:** I totally agree, and you think about it, you spend so much time trying to drive traffic to your website by simply having a tab that says, you know, podcasts and is a dropdown box, and they can go and check out your podcast. That's a great way to have tons of video content. On your website. So yes, along with the, the videos, maybe you want on your homepage or the shorter videos. Now, once they're there, they have an opportunity to see that right there in your website, you have a full video library of all these amazing conversations that you've had on your podcast or on your YouTube channel. **Kris:** Let's talk about podcast, video, podcast. Mm-hmm. what are three things that you would recommend, bits of wisdom, or really three things that you must have on a podcast if you wanted to get you clients? **Kirsten:** Three things. \[00:30:00\] so first of all, I think. I'm always a, I'm always a big believer in progress, not perfection. So, you and I are recording this on Zoom. We also record our, our interviews on Zoom. There are, are there other things out there that will produce better quality? Yes, Riverside. There are other things. Squad cast. The problem is sometimes that technology glitches, which can stress out, you know, a guest. So think about the things that you can do is think about. It doesn't have to be perfect. And what's the path of least resistance? What can I do to make this so easy that I'll do it. I'm not a tech person. If I had to set up a big fancy camera that had a lot of adjustments, I, I, I'm just not gonna, I wanna avoid it, right? So. Path of least resistance. What can you and what will you do? And know that you can grow and you can change and you can evolve over time. So I would say that's the first thing. You've gotta show up and do it to attract clients. **Kirsten:** The second thing is make sure that the content that you're, you're bringing onto your podcast is actually speaking to your ideal client. You know, most of our clients are coaches, consultants, \[00:31:00\] authors, but we do work with real estate agents because, you know, video's so important for them. So understanding and, and real estate agents are business owners, so we're always thinking about the conversations that we're gonna have, whether it's just Jeanie and I or whether we're bringing on a guest. How is that conversation going to impact and help our audience? So always having a heart to serve, like you said, and thinking about am I really delivering value to the people who are spending their very valuable time with me watching my video or listening to my podcast? The third thing was was with anything in marketing, you have to think about conversion call to actions. So whether the call to action is to book a call, whether it's to sign up for a free gift or something that will help you build your email list. You want to make sure you always have very clear call to actions. In this case for your guests and for the host, should have call to actions as well. The other thing is making sure that those call to actions are on the description on YouTube or in the show notes. on Spotify and Apple, you want to make sure you're very clear about how and when people can connect with you, because \[00:32:00\] again, they may not reach out to you and connect with you on your first or second episode, but they may watch 10, 12 episodes and then they're ready and that call to action may be something. Easy, like a lead magnet, or it may be something that takes them a little step further, like booking a call with you. And I think it's important to test those and rotate those so that you know, if someone's listening to you brand new, a free lead magnet, a free guide is something that they would raise their hand for. But someone who's been listening to you for a long time, they may, they may click that button and say, yeah, I definitely wanna book a call and talk to her. So just understanding that your listeners are in different places on their journey with you. **Kris:** Mm. I love that. I, I've really gotten in the habit of, focusing my call to action on, you can either do a freebie or you can go to my website and book a call. Those are my two things that I guide people to do. If you, if, if I also said, Hey, go follow me on Instagram and go check out my LinkedIn, and that like. No one's gonna D do anything. 'cause I've just overwhelmed them. They're trying to hold multiple bullying balls and we all know after two bullying balls, they all \[00:33:00\] fall down. Nothing happens. So I love that you honed in on that, like a clear call to action that will meet them where they are. **Kirsten:** Yes. Yeah, we always have to think about who's listening to our podcast. And you know, again, someone could, the problem that you solve may be so urgent for them. They've listened to one episode, they're gonna call you because they've got this burning need to fix a problem. And they feel like you can do that. But again, sometimes it's that nurturing, offering free gifts or guides or free video trainings or whatever that looks like, just to start to bring them closer into your ecosystem. And then once they are, once they've given you their email address and they are in your ecosystem, don't abuse it. And, and abuse. It could be two things. It could be sending them absolutely ridiculous stuff all the time. That doesn't make sense. But abusing them could also be loving them and leaving them like, you know, send 'em one or two things and then never show up again. So making sure that you appreciate that they took the time to, to give you their information and have a nice nurturing sequence to go along with your lead magnet and then, you know, have a way to continue to build that relationship with them. **Kris:** Mm. I love that. All \[00:34:00\] right, so what are three, what are the three biggest mistakes that entrepreneurs make when it comes to video? **Kirsten:** Most people who, first, I was so embarrassed to say this, but I realize that most people, if they, if they've done enough episodes, it happens. Dean and I finished this awesome podcast interview with a guest. We realized we didn't hit record. Are you laughing because you've done it? **Kris:** Been there, been there. Yeah. And it was like, of course pure gold. Yes, pure gold. Yeah. I almost **Kirsten:** cried The best episode ever. And you realize, and you, and you know, you usually don't realize it right away. So then like, you know, you, you get off the interview and then you realize you didn't record. So now you've gotta reach back out to the guest and go, oh, I'm gonna totally see it. I didn't hit record. So. You know, just understand if you're going to start a podcast as like anything else in life, you are going to to make mistakes. And I think that's what most people have made. I think the other thing that I hear a lot, especially from women, you know, because we do train virtual assistants who take care of all the podcast production and marketing of the podcast and everything for our clients, we also train virtual \[00:35:00\] assistants for people who wanna get booked on podcasts. We have structures. Here's a big mistake I think a lot of people make. They think they need to know how to do everything themselves before they delegate it. And, and that argument is insane to me because, you know, Kris, last time your car had a problem, did you figure out how to become the maintenance person before you took it to the mechanic? **Kirsten:** You probably didn't even Google how to fix it, did you? Right. So, but in our businesses, for some reason, someone sold us on this whole concept. Either our self-worth is tied up in us being able to do everything or that, you know, before you delegate something, you have to know how to do it yourself. I will tell you right now, that is not true. I've never even logged into our Canva account. I'm not exaggerating. If you can hire the right people and have systems and processes in place. You're hiring people who love what they do, right? I don't wanna edit a video, I don't wanna upload it. I don't wanna create social media posts. But there are people out there who love doing that. Like that's their superpower, and they're thrilled that that's their job. And so if you want to do this, don't feel like you have to go it alone. You don't have to figure it all out on your \[00:36:00\] own that you know you can hire someone who can do everything, so you can just show up and have that great conversation. The part two of that is people. Say, well, I don't wanna re relinquish control. I'm a control freak. There's no way I'm requ pushing control. Just because someone is working for you and taking care of tasks for you doesn't mean that they're the boss of that. Right. You're still the one who's saying, I love that editing. You know, I don't particularly care for that editing. You know, that's has a, that that B-roll has images, walking of men walking down Wall Street, like in suits. That's not our ideal client. So that B-roll, that imagery doesn't match. Who my ideal client is. So change it. We don't mind having men in our content, but we, you know, they're usually gonna be, you know, in more casual clothes, that kind of thing. So if you can coach someone on what you like and what you dislike, then they can do a magical job for you. And you don't ever have to learn how to edit a video if you don't want to. **Kris:** Mm. What a gift. And so you fi, you find the va. You train the VA and you match the VA with the entrepreneur, knowing that there, that it will likely be a good fit. **Kirsten:** \[00:37:00\] Yes. And then we also now have a transition process because. The over the years, the biggest reason people fail when it comes to outsourcing is they don't have, they don't have a process. They don't have systems and processes in place. They don't have workflows in place. So we have very documented workflows. So the virtual assistants that we hire, they also go through a paid internship with us. So we actually train them on our content, which is how they learn all of our workflows, when it is time for them to get paired with a client. We pair them with the client, but one of our hiring and trainee managers actually spends the first two weeks with them bridging the gap because we found it's, it's not just that the virtual assistant needs to know how, what to do and how to do it. Our client also has to learn how to manage the workflows, **Kirsten:** You lead people, you manage tasks, and you manage tasks through standard operating procedures and workflows. So we have this two week period. Where the trainee manager actually, facilitates that VA getting up and running for that client. And then we, we have clients that are going on six years with their virtual assistants, and we will replace that virtual assistant if it doesn't work \[00:38:00\] out. And usually if it doesn't work out. It's within the first two to three weeks. And it's generally not a skill problem. It's, it's a personality problem. Yeah. Like for whatever reason, that client, that VA doesn't click, and we always want our client to feel like that va, they click with them and they're excited to have them on their team. So we'll bring that VA back into the paid internship. We'll rotate someone else into that position for them because our goal is we want you to have that VA for years. We want them to be a valued part of your team. We want them to do such a great job that very seldom do you have edits or need them to make changes because they know you, they know what you like. And that's, that's the real goal. **Kris:** So it, for the listeners who have are, that are solopreneurs or are afraid to grow their team, I think a lot of them. I'm glad you touched on that control piece 'cause it can be really hard to relinquish control, but you also kind of reach this point of like, okay, in order to get where I wanna go, I have to have help in place. And I think one of the questions that I bet people are asking right now. Can I afford \[00:39:00\] this? Is this very expensive? Like, so talk us through that. Like what, what is the, the investment range, **Kirsten:** right? So if you had someone to produce your podcast, most likely the best rate that you'll find is a, you know, I would say a bargain rate might be $150 an episode. That would be a really good rate. The way our virtual assistants work is it's $250 a month. They can produce a video for you every single week. And when I say produce it, I mean upload it. Do all the social media marketing, set it up to go out to your email list, convert it to the blog post, put it on your website. I feel like that's the production of that episode. So for $250 a month, you can have that first person. On your team, you are looking at like 70 bucks a week, right? So 80 bucks a week. So very, very affordable. And the reason why it is so cost effective is we're trying to pair virtual assistants who want long-term employment with clients who want long-term virtual assistants. So it's more cost effective because they're salaried, salaried employee. In our programs, we also teach cultural differences \[00:40:00\] because that's a very important to learn in order to have a great relationship. For example, in the Philippines, there's something called the 13th month. So in December you would normally pay them another month of salary. It's just how they're. Things work there, right? So we really encourage our clients to do that, pay that 13th month. So instead of 12, 50 times 12 months, it's 1250 times, 13 months. 13 months. we talk about instead of increasing salary, especially if your business is, you know, still growing. So maybe you have that roller coaster, good months, bad months instead of increasing salary, give bonuses when you have great months. That way you're keeping your overhead consistently low. You are being generous and sharing the wealth with your team when things go well. So we do a lot of coaching around what it looks like to build a team, and most of our clients go on to hire multiple team members. **Kris:** Amazing. Wow. I am. I am inspired. I'm very inspired. Kristen, it's been really wonderful having you here today. I think we've all learned a lot. Where can everybody find you? **Kirsten:** Absolutely. They can find me at \[00:41:00\] six figure business coaching.com. That's SIX figure business coaching.com. If you're thinking that you'd like to have a podcast or a YouTube channel, we have a program that's listed. It's called The Marketing VA Advantage. You can check out the information there and then if you'd like, you can book a call with me. Happy to talk with you about it and figure out if it's right for you. **Kris:** And we will put all of this in the show notes. So thank you again. **Speaker:** Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Why the bar for your first video is lower than you think - What happened when Kirsten's clients started watching her videos - The real reason most podcasts and video channels die before they find their footing, and what to do differently from the start - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/sales-call-page ### Title: Sales Call ### Page ID: 9462093 ### Content: # A Confusing Message Caused By the Bottle Effect. # The StoryBrand Framework ## How to replace all your marketing with a single story. #### *Introducing...* ### 1\. Mine For Gold ### 2\. Refine Your Story ### 3\. Deploy Everywhere ### 4\. Sign More Clients # Your Signature Story is the missing piece that accelerates growth.  # Use it everywhere to sell for you 24/7 ## A Clear StoryBrand Message ### **Website Messaging** ### **StoryBrand Soundbites** ### **One-Liner** ### **Video Script** ## A Client-Getting Marketing System ### Email Sequence ### Lead Magnet Strategy ### Social Profiles ### Testimonial System ## A Cohesive Brand ### Process Infographic ### Brand Photos ### LinkedIn Banner ### Elevate Brand Palette ## A Profitable Business Structure #### Offering Clarity ### Pricing Strategy ### Sales Call Confidence ### **Web Design Guidance** ## The Signature Story-Selling System pays for itself. #### **Less than 2.5 hours of your time over a 30-day engagement.** #### Signature Story-Selling System #### **Signature Story-Selling System** #### Clear Messaging #### Cohesive Branding #### Effective Marketing #### Business Strategy ## Let's Calculate Your Return on Invements **Turn your story into the marketing engine that sells for you.** I extract your story from your brain and write it for you. We collaborate until every word feels exactly right. Turn on the client-getting faucet. Leave it running. EVERYTHING YOU NEED FOR A SIMPLE & PROFITABLE BUSINESS it's like a business in a box that includes everything you need: Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/roi ### Title: ROI ### Page ID: 9462506 ### Content: # What does your investment return? ## Your numbers ## How fast does it pay off? ## Month-by-month revenue vs. your investment ## Year 1 return on investment See how the Signature Story-Selling System pays for itself. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/presalebonus ### Title: StoryBrand Pre-Sale Bonuses ### Page ID: 9503510 ### Content: # Congrats —It's Bonuspalooza! #### Your bonuses are in the oven. We'll email you as soon as they're ready to enjoy. #### Fix Your Homepage Training #### Podcast Mini-Series #### Soundbite Strategy Challenge # How these strategies have helped grow *simple* and *profitable* businesses. #### I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! Best money spent. #### I'm closing 95% of my sales calls now that I have clarity. #### I saw a 986% increase in conversions in the first 30 days! #### I'm now charging 6X more for the exact same service. #### I booked my first $15K speaking gig using my new messaging. #### Clients are already sold before I get on the call. # For nearly two years, Donald and I poured our *hearts* into these pages. # When people understand how you can help them, *saying yes* becomes easy. #### Donald Miller, StoryBrand Founder #### Kris Jones, Red Door Founder ***You'll leave knowing the #1 messaging mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** Steal the exact homepage formula Kris uses to turn visitors into clients. In this 30-minute training, you'll learn what to say, what to remove, and how to build trust in seconds so more people book. Get early access to a private seven-part podcast series with Donald Miller and Kris Jones, where they unpack the biggest ideas from the book and show you how to put them to work before the official release. Join Kris for a live 3-day challenge and leave with a soundbite that makes people instantly understand what you do. Plus, get exclusive Day 4 VIP after party with Donald Miller. Free when you pre-order. **If you've been part of my world for a while, I hope you know you've had a hand in this book, too.** They've shaped this book more than you probably realize. Before it goes out into the world, I'd love to invite you to help me launch it. ***If you believe the people who change lives should be easy to find, I hope you'll join the Launch Squad.*** Donald Miller is the bestselling author of Building a StoryBrand which has helped hundreds of thousands of businesses clarify their message and grow. His book has sold over one million copies. Known as the coach of coaches, Kris Jones is one of Donald Miller's first certified StoryBrand Guides. Over the last 20 years, she has helped thousands of experts turn what they know into thriving and profitable businesses. *A Boutique Design Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/heidi-allsop-website-messaging-case-study ### Title: How Heidi Allsop Used Website Marketing to Fill Her Calendar ### Page ID: 9505096 ### Content: # How Heidi Allsop Used Website Marketing to Fill Her Calendar How Heidi Allsop Used Website Marketing to Fill Her Calendar Most websites fail for one reason. They're telling the wrong story. Heidi Allsop found that out the hard way. She had the experience. She had a proven offer. She had a website she was genuinely proud of. The calls still weren't coming. The problem wasn't her coaching. Her website was built around her story when it needed to be built around her client's. We made that one shift using the StoryBrand framework. Better leads started showing up. Consult calls got easier. The website finally started earning its keep. In the latest episode of From Click to Client, Heidi and I walk through exactly what changed and why it worked. If your website gets traffic but not enough clients, this one is for you. **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Heidi:** My name is Heidi Allsop. I'm a master life and parenting coach for moms raising teenage boys, and I love it. I get to work with moms of these teenagers, and I have five sons of my own, so I'm very invested in raising better men in this world. **Heidi:** From the school of hard knocks. I know what I'm doing. **Kris:** Okay. What were you struggling with that made you need to hire me? **Heidi:** So before I met you, Kris, I was Making it so much harder than it needed to be. My messaging, I've never been a marketer, and that's where I was stuck in conveying this \[00:01:00\] message to these moms in a way that really resonated for them. I need to simplify this. I need to make this more enjoyable so that the message that I have can resonate with these moms, 'cause I can't help them if they don't understand what I'm saying. And so before, I think I was overcomplicating it, trying to make it sound like so compelling that they would buy. **Kris:** What, what was going on as far as your website goes? Like, w- was it working? Were people clicking on it? Were you getting clients? **Heidi:** When I started my business, I built a website which was clunky and the best I could do, and it was fine. It was fine. But I wasn't getting clients from my website because the message that I was trying to convey wasn't clear. It was overcomplicated. And so it wasn't converting anyone to book a call. It wasn't converting anyone to want to buy what I had to offer because the offer was confusing. I was talking more about me than I was \[00:02:00\] about her, and that is one thing that really came to light for me as we started working together, that I was trying to be the hero and in a way convince her that she needed to hire me. And oh, yeah, it was hard. And I kept thinking, "This isn't working." And it felt like a grind, like I was just burning out every day. It was like walking in quicksand. I was just trying to, to make it work, but the walking through, it felt hard and heavy, and I just... I knew it could work, but I didn't know if it could work for me. And so I questioned, every day I questioned it. And the emotion I think that is, feels the biggest as I look back was defeat. Like, I just felt like here I had raised this family of boys, which that's hard. And so I thought, "Well, I'm used to doing hard things," but building this business and just getting through every day just, I just felt defeated every day. After, \[00:03:00\] after working together, revamping my website, really creating a website that felt like me and spoke like me, it has been fascinating to get responses from people. I had a lady that got on a call with me and she said, "I just have to tell you that your website is not only pretty, it was so easy to understand what you do." And that just felt so good to me, because that's exactly what I want. I want people to come to this website and understand what I'm- Trying to offer. I want them to leave that website with hope. And for her to come and say it was just so nice to read that and to feel that hope, it was everything for me. So yeah, after working together, my website is, is working for me when I'm not working which is amazing. It leads people through a story where they're the hero, and they feel hopeful enough to get on a call with me and take a chance. And my calls have grown exponentially. \[00:04:00\] And when people get on a call with me- They are ready to go. They're ready to go. They want to get the help that I offer on that call, but then they're ready for more help. So these are really quality calls that I'm getting, and I think that I'm getting those because the website is weeding out moms who just simply continue to consume my free content, which I'm happy to offer them. So the calls that I'm getting are valuable, quality, ready-to-go calls, which makes me feel like I'm not wasting my time and they're not wasting their time. And I love sending people to my website. I send everybody to my website. Really proud of what they get when they get to the website. Like, tell me now what's happening when you get on a call with them. **Heidi:** So I think because my website is so clear and clean, and in doing the website, Kris, I got more clear and clean on what I want to say. Just the... Just even naming the call, which is something that we did together, a reconnection strategy call, that they are \[00:05:00\] receptive, and, and the words that I say, it's about them. It's no longer about me having to prove my qualifications or... I know now that what I wanna talk to them about is how she can become the hero in her story. This is about her and improving her life. And we just recently talked about an incentive for these calls, and an incentive to give these potential clients that are on these calls, an incentive of if you book within 24 hours, I will throw in a free session, 60 to 90 minute session with your son, which the moms that come to me, and this is one thing that you and I worked on together, Kris, because the moms think that the son is the problem. And I know that her showing up in a more calm, confident way is the fastest way for her to help her son change his behavior. And so by offering this call for him, that I can help him see where he is and why he's showing up the way he is, it just is like the perfect combination to help them move forward so quickly. And that incentive \[00:06:00\] is, is giving her what she thinks she needs, too, she really wants, is for someone else to talk to her son about his behavior. So that has been so great. I had three consult calls last week and signed two of them. And so clients are converting at a rate that they haven't ever before in my business, which is so fun. **Kris:** If you could ballpark it, like prior to the new website and the new messaging, how many calls would you have to get on to get one client? **Heidi:** So before you and I worked together, Kris, I- Was offering the same consult call, and you and I talked a lot about putting my pricing on my website, and we decided together that that was a good option for me, and I'm actually thrilled that we did that because the consult calls that I'm getting, they already know that there will be a financial investment. And so before, it was just vague. It was confusing, and I really wasn't sure and as confident as I am now that the \[00:07:00\] consult calls that were coming to me, when it came time to, to sell them to move forward and to continue to work together, it got sticky, and I think confusing. And, and since doing the website, and it's been, it's been a while, about a year since we, we did this website, Kris, together. The consult calls that are coming are really valuable consults, and they're also ready to move forward. And so within two months of working together, I made that investment back, and now everything else is just ... Like, that investment seems like the best investment of my year last year. Getting not only my website dialed in, but my messaging dialed in, and now I use it everywhere. It- Best investment of the year, for sure, in every way. **Kris:** Yeah. That, that's amazing. So tell me what emotions come up for you knowing that you made this investment in yourself, knowing that it's working? How does it feel to be having a, a call in your calendar that's booked and knowing that you know exactly how to handle this, and that you're probably gonna sign that client? **Heidi:** \[00:08:00\] Well, it's interesting because before when I was trudging through, right, I just felt defeated almost every day, yet determined. And now I see that consult call come on my calendar, and it's like the greatest dopamine hit. It's so fun and so exciting, and I'm not nervous about the call. I know exactly what I offer, and I just can't wait to get on that call because I know it's a pretty high chance that that client is gonna wanna continue to work together. And it's, it's taken the defeat out, so now the determination is still there, but it's moving forwards and it's building. This has become fun. **Kris:** That's huge. Yeah. It's fun. I mean, that's the point, right? Mm-hmm. We're supposed to have fun along the way. One of the things that I'm hearing you say is that you feel so much more confident. **Heidi:** Oh, yes. Yeah. One of the emotions that is consistent since dialing in my messaging, since dialing in my website, is that I don't question everything I questioned before. I'm so much more confident that people need what I have to offer, and the \[00:09:00\] confidence has grown exponentially because of the... just the calm. Like, I think calm and confidence go hand in hand, and I'm just so much more calm about my business in every way, and the confidence just, just keeps growing. And every client that signs gets me a little more confident. Every client that signs just gets me a little more calm and sure and excited. So the confidence in what I do, and that I can express what I do, has grown so much. **Kris:** So good. I think what I'm also hearing is that in every cell of your being, you get the value that you're bringing to the table, and part of our work together was making that value come across in the messaging. But also you've, over time, embodied that internally as well. Mm-hmm. Which I think feeds the confidence so beautifully. Yeah. So, um, what was your favorite part of the process? **Heidi:** My favorite part of the process working together was the questions that made me go a little bit deeper, because I don't wanna be like everybody else telling people what to do. \[00:10:00\] I wanna be unique and different, and really lean into my superpowers. And so my favorite, absolute favorite part of the process was the pre-work that I did, and I still refer back to that often because that's where I got the clarity. When I saw the website for the first time, I felt so much- peace because I've been trying to figure this out for so long. I also felt excitement. Like, it just embodied exactly what I was hoping for when we started to work together. It, the messaging was there, the beauty was there. Everything about it was just so exciting. I felt excited to offer it into the world, and just felt just that peace of, "Oh, my goodness, this was the right move to make at this point in my business." It was almost like I had up-leveled and done myself the greatest favor in up-leveling and investing in this part of my business, which has created such a great return. **Kris:** I'm so glad. Yeah. \[00:11:00\] Okay, one final question. What would you say to a friend who's on the fence about working with me? **Heidi:** What I would tell a friend who's thinking about working with Kris is value yourself and your business enough to invest in this next step. It's like investing in your legitimacy of your business. It is your gift to you to have that peace and that confidence, and to stop carrying that heavy load every single day. Give yourself this gift, and give your business the gift of legitimacy. Once we finished this website, it just felt like my business was legitimate. This is really a business. It's amazing. So I have told many friends that this is, this is your right next step. I trust you completely. Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into \[00:12:00\] your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - The messaging mistake that quietly pushes good prospects away - The small shift that brought in better-fit clients - What your website should say to get more calls booked - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-your-coaching-business-bonuses ### Title: StoryBrand Your Coaching Business Bonuses ### Page ID: 9505273 ### Content: Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/storybrand-website-copy-for-coaches-mindy-shotwell ### Title: StoryBrand Your Coaching Business: Turn Your Website into Your Top Sales Employee with Mindy Shotwell ### Page ID: 9569113 ### Content: # StoryBrand Your Coaching Business: Turn Your Website into Your Top Sales Employee with Mindy Shotwell ***You'll leave knowing the #1 messaging mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** StoryBrand Your Coaching Business: Turn Your Website into Your Top Sales Employee with Mindy Shotwell Think about the last time you drove past a billboard with too many words on it. That's exactly what's happening on most coaching websites. Visitors land on the page, their brain starts working too hard to figure out what you do, and they leave. Not because your work isn't good, but because the message isn't clear enough, *fast enough.* In the new episode of the *From Click to Client Podcast*, be a fly on the wall as I coach Mindy Shotwell to write her website wireframe using the StoryBrand framework. We go section by section in real time, starting with that all-important header, and you get to watch as we get it dialed in. If someone lands on your website today, do they know immediately what you do and how it helps them? This episode will help you fix it. **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. I am delighted to reintroduce you today to Mindy Shotwell. She is a coach that I've been working with, and she is just a baby coach. She's just getting off the ground with her coaching business. She's had a couple decades at least of work in other industries. She worked at Nike. She worked at Parametrix. She's had some really big roles in the HR space, and now she's at a point in her life, in a chapter where she's closing the door on being employed and working for the man, and now she's working for the woman and, crafting her own coaching business. So \[00:01:00\] I always say there is no shortcut through the phase of bootstrapping your business at the beginning. There is so much learning that goes on in that first year or in those first two years, and no matter how hard you try, It's gonna be an iterative process. Because with every client you work with, you're gonna learn more about who you like to work with. You're gonna learn more about how you can help those clients solve their problem. And I will tell you, who you think you wanna work with at the beginning of the year is gonna be different at the end of the year. Or maybe it's that same audience or that same ideal client, but the way you solve their problem might be a little bit different than you originally planned. So we're gonna dive in here into what I call the messy middle of Mindy's journey of finding clarity for her own business and her own message. **Mindy:** And you probably remember a couple of \[00:02:00\] episodes ago, Mindy came on here, and we really worked through her five story brand soundbites and her core positioning. So Mindy, I'm gonna put you on the spot here. Number one, welcome. Number two, what do you do? I am a leadership coach who helps people regain confidence so that when pressure is on and moments matter most, they feel that they're making decisions with clarity and confidence. **Kris:** Beautiful. And one of the things that we've dug into about your work is as a leader, having difficult conversations or having performance conversations with your team is really uncomfortable, and most leaders dread that, and they don't know how to navigate those conversations. And- They either will put them off or they'll have them in a way that's not as productive as they really wanted it to be. And correct me if I'm wrong, but that's really one of your superpowers is helping \[00:03:00\] leaders have difficult conversations. Is that true? **Mindy:** Yes, that's right. And it's, it's, to your point, almost 30 years of experience coaching professionally on-the-job managers, to have these conversations in a way that feels, in integrity, in their own integrity and where they are clear on the message that they're sending and, and, can kind of toe the line. So yeah, it's, it's tough. A lot of people skirt it and put it off or show up in ways that is unbecoming to the organization outside of their own personal brand, and certainly not in service of the employee. **Kris:** Mm. Yeah. Yeah, there, there's so many layers to that problem that you could really go deeper into. when you talk to these leaders, what are they complaining to you about? What are they having difficulty with? Like, in their words, what are they telling you? **Mindy:** that they're extremely nervous. They don't know what to say. they don't know how to respond. They don't wanna hurt the person's feelings. They think they're nice, but they're \[00:04:00\] not doing the job. Um- They are being pressured by their leadership to have the conversation. You know, for example, they may feel the person is actually in line with where they're supposed to be, but they don't know how to have courageous conversations with their leader, and so now they're being kind of the thumb is on them- Mm to, you know, trickle down and have a conversation with their, their team that they're, they're not actually wholeheartedly behind- Mm-hmm ... and support. But yet they don't have the internal compass to help navigate those conversations and those situations. So it's not just teams, but it's also the upward ladder- **Kris:** Right. Yeah. They're, they're essentially sandwiched in between their team member who needs to be addressed, but the pressure from above. So they're like, they're like in the middle of that uncomfortable sandwich. **Kris:** Yeah. Oh my gosh. So many good directions we could go with this. So we have worked on your soundbites, \[00:05:00\] and we got really clear with those. But what we came together and created was a positioning statement for Mindy that is, "Many managers feel like imposters when addressing poor performance. I help them navigate difficult conversations with ease so they can lead with confidence and deliver extraordinary results." So huge. And you notice like we followed the StoryBrand one-liner formula, which is identifying the hero's problem and then introducing yourself as the guide with your solution, and then ending with the ultimate success that your hero will have. So the hero's problem, many managers feel like imposters when addressing poor per- poor performance That is a very clear problem. We're identifying who the hero is and their problem. Then we're gonna introduce Mindy's solution. "I help them navigate difficult \[00:06:00\] conversations with ease." Notice we've only used a handful of words to talk about her entire solution. This part of the one-liner should be very, very concise, because people really don't give a damn how you solve their problem. They don't care. They just wanna know that you can solve the problem. And as you get deeper into working with them, yeah, they're gonna wanna know that. But at this level, we're talking about at a high level and not getting into the weeds with the details. So we wanna use language that the brain can follow, and keep it so concise that people can actually digest it without having to burn any brain calories. So we've got the problem, we've got her solution, and then we're gonna end on success. "So they can lead with confidence and deliver extraordinary results." So we have just literally told a whole story in two sentences. Yeah. We started with the hero's problem, we've introduced the guide's solution, and \[00:07:00\] we've shown that, that, that hero is gonna find success and avoid failure. So th- one of the other things that we did, and you'll have to go check out Mindy on LinkedIn, because we did a full-blown LinkedIn makeover. It was better than any HGTV home makeover you've ever seen. It was v- very dramatically, like it went from confusion and, vagueness, I called up Mindy and I said, "What the hell is going on with your LinkedIn? Talk to me." And so we worked together. Big talk. Yeah, yeah, real talk. And so we revamped it.we created an image of Mindy that felt much more professional. Mm-hmm. We integrated her logo, and most importantly, we used language that is gonna speak directly to her ideal- client. So in the banner of her LinkedIn, we wrote, "I help managers communicate effectively \[00:08:00\] and lead with confidence." So if if I'm a manager, um, e- or a leader and I come to her LinkedIn, she's talking directly to me. And I don't know how many LinkedIn profiles you've visited, but most of them are totally blah Or not, there's no graphic, or it's like a sunset, God forbid. Nothing wrong with sunsets, but if you're on LinkedIn, it's r- really needs to be about the work that you do. **Kris:** Okay. So then we uncovered Mindy's piece Soundbites. These are the five story brand soundbites that every business owner needs in order to capture attention. As coaches and consultants, we love to teach people. We're genuinely, wanting to help people, wanting to teach people, and so we, and we, we also wanna lead with just generosity and a helpful heart, and it all comes from a good place. But what happens \[00:09:00\] is we're very eager to teach, that we put a lot of stuff out into the world, and we don't get any response from it. We're like, "I wrote this white paper. I wrote this PDF, and I shared it, and nobody's reading it. No one's giving me any feedback on this." And when you do this, you're educating people, but you haven't yet taken the time to capture their attention first. Before you teach someone, before you give them information about the work that you do, you have to first grab their attention, otherwise they're gonna stroll on by, and I like to use the metaphor of a house. So with any house, you have the front five steps. Those steps are the things that get your attention, and they invite you up to the front porch. Your soundbites are those first five steps. Then once we've got their attention, then we can educate and teach and hang out together and have conversation. So \[00:10:00\] that phase of your marketing is called the front porch activities. You hang out on the front porch, you talk, you teach. You might do it through videos. You might through, do it through PDF. You might do it through an actual free consult call. But most coaches and consultants don't have any front steps. They don't have any soundbites. So imagine if you're walking down your neighborhood and there's a house with a front porch, but there's no way to get to the front porch, literally no way without, you having to, put yourself in danger to climb up, to scale the side of the house. So you have to have the front steps to capture attention before you begin teaching anybody or going deeper into the work that you do. So all that to say we totally dialed in Mindy's PEACE soundbites, and we call them PEACE soundbites because they follow the word peace. P for problem, E for empathy, A for answer, C for change, and end result.\[00:11:00\] Every hero that you help begins their life in peace, and then they fall into a hole. Thenthey are in the thick of a problem that they don't know how to solve themselves. And so our goal is to get them back to peace, to help them climb out of that hole as the hero's guide. So Mindy's soundbites for P, problem, is many managers feel like imposters when addressing poor performance. E, empathy. Holding people accountable is hard when you're also doubting yourself. A, answer. I help them navigate difficult conversations with ease. C, change. Become an effective leader. The change really is who do they become, right? Who do they transform into? They, change from an ineffective leader to an effective leader. And then the end result, what is the happy ever after of their story? They're gonna communicate with confidence and drive extraordinary results. \[00:12:00\] So each of those soundbites can stand alone to get people's attention. They can also work together to capture someone's attention. So they're very, powerful statements that people remember, people repeat, and they allow you to become known for solving this problem. So what, we're gonna do today is talk through the next phase of our work. We've done the groundwork, we've gotten clear on her message, we've gotten clear on her sound bites, we've got her story brand one-liner. Now it's time for Mindy to create and build her very own first website. And so this is no small task to, number one, build your website, but number two, craft the messaging for that website, because when you work with a builder like Squarespace or Wix or WordPress, you name it, all the builders out there come with templates, and all the templates that they offer you are not strategic templates. They're templates that \[00:13:00\] by default position you as the hero of your own story. You do not wanna be the hero of your own story because the hero is the weakest character in the story. You want to be the guide. So you basically have to choose a template, then you have to know enough to totally revamp that template to make it your own, to make it effective, to make it strategic. You gotta manhandle that template and wrangle it into a format that actually tells a story. And so the way we do that initially is through what I call a wireframe. all a wireframe is, is a roadmap to your website. If you were to build a house, you would not hire a builder to just start building the house. You'd hire an architect to map out the blueprint and map out the plan, then once everybody agreed on the plan, then you would begin building the house, and you'd hand that over to a builder. So a wireframe is no different. It is literally the blueprint for your website, and it allows us to make sure that the words \[00:14:00\] work really well in black and white. if the words don't work in black and white, they're never gonna work in a designed environment. So the more time we spend to get the words dialed in in the wireframe, th- the quicker it is to actually build the site and ensure that it's actually gonna work to get you clients. Mindy, any thoughts? **Mindy:** Yeah, I would just say that a couple things. The, the, reference that you made, which is in chapter two about, expending brain, brain- **Mindy:** energy, brain calories. that was, that was really helpful to me because I, I could immediately go back, in my mind's eye to sites that I've seen where there's just been a ton of words and I'm like, "Oh my God, I don't have time." Or there's just a ton of information about the person and I'm like, "Okay, well, but what do you do or what do you offer?" and so that really resonated, so I think that that's a, that was really helpful. and I like that \[00:15:00\] the framework that we've put together is essentially a deeper dive into the PEACE **Kris:** So to kind of orient you, the reason Mindy and I are working together is because she is a dear friend of mine, number one, but number two, she's starting this coaching business, and number three, I have just finished the book called Storybrand Your Coaching Business, which Donald Miller and I co-authored. And so she is literally going through the book chapter by chapter in real time, and we're working through each chapter so I can make sure that this book is perfectly dialed in for any coach at any phase of business that wants to pick it up and implement these 12 strategies. So the book has 12 strategies to make more ideal clients say yes, and right now Mindy is on chapter two, which is Turn Your Website into Your Top Sales Employee. \[00:16:00\] Your website should not sit there online like a bump on a log wasting Wi-Fi. It should be actively working for you 24/7 to sell you, to sell your offers, and to pull in ideal clients without any work from you. You do have to do a bunch of work upfront to make sure it's gonna be, working for you, and so that's really why we're connecting today, and the phase of the book that Mindy is currently in. So what my clients do is they go through what I call the mining for gold process. Your story is not invented or created by somebody else. It's already inside your head and your heart. It's in there, and those are golden nuggets of your story. the problem is you're just so close to your own story that trying to identify what those gold nuggets are can feel impossible- Yeah which is why I ask the questions that only I know how to ask that uncover that story \[00:17:00\] inside of you. And so this is what Mindy has gone through. We've gone through the mining for gold process. I've identified those golden nuggets, and then I polish them up and I get them all shiny and I crafted her wire frame for her. And I shared the first draft with her, and then she took it and made some changes, so we're gonna walk you through exactly in real time... I haven't looked at it since she made her changes, so we're gonna go through it. You might **Mindy:** have some, you might have some- supplemental edits that you wanna make **Kris:** changes. Yeah, I'm sure Yeah It's one of the, one of the most important phases of my process is called collaborate and refine. So because- Yes ... this is your website, it's your business, it's your baby, it needs to be perfectly aligned with you and your voice, which is why this collaboration phase of step two, collaborate and refine, is so critical. It's so essential because it needs to feel totally like an extension of \[00:18:00\] you. Okay, so I'm gonna dive in. I'm actually gonna share my screen. If you're watching on YouTube, you can look at the actual wireframe, and if you're listening to this, then I'm gonna... Don't worry, I'm gonna read this out loud so you will not miss anything. So in the, in the first section of the wireframe, I call it the header section I often call it the billboard section because it works exactly like a billboard. If you're going down the freeway 85 miles per hour and there's a billboard on the side of the road that has a bunch of words on it or is poetic or nuanced or complicated or requires brain calories to be burned to understand it, you are not gonna read that billboard. Somebody paid 20 grand for that billboard to be there, and literally no one's reading it. It might as well not be there at all. Yeah. And that is what happens with most of the websites on the internet. People jam too much \[00:19:00\] onto the billboard, and then it becomes completely ineffective. Not only that, the brain, if it has to work too hard to understand what you do, it literally is a signal of danger. our brains are constantly trying to conserve calories, so if your website causes someone to burn brain calories, they will literally bail. and the reason I use the metaphor of the billboard and driving 85 miles an hour is because that is about how quickly people move through your website these days. Number one, they're on their phone, and so they're scrolling, but number two, And you know what I'm talking about. If you're listening, you know what I'm talking about. You scroll through the website very rapidly, and so on this first section of your website, they are literally there for only five seconds. So A good test for this is could a caveman come to your website and grunt what you do to another caveman and they're both like, "Oh, yeah. Get it. We get it." So it's got to be that simple. \[00:20:00\] So here we are on Mindy's header section, and it says, "When you trust yourself completely, you lead with greater confidence." And then she has a potential edit that says, "Move through life." So are you thinking when you trust yourself completely, you move through life with a greater confidence? Okay.Like leading obviously is more congruent with the next sentence. what do you think about this? when you trust yourself completely, you move through life- **Mindy:** Or you move through life with greater confidence. **Kris:** and then what I'd like to do is pull that lead word down here. Coaching for, leaders and managers who are ready to align head, heart, and body for center... Oh, you've got centered leadership down here. Okay. This is perfect. Okay. So- Yeah, I like that. Yeah ... the head- the header is, "When you trust yourself completely, you move through \[00:21:00\] life with greater confidence." Done and done. Okay? And now I understand how is my life going to be better because of this, and I'm getting the clear idea that you're gonna help me have more confidence. Mm-hmm. You're gonna help me trust myself, and I'm gonna move through life in a completely different way because of this. **Kris:** Yes. And then if, the subheader is, "Coaching for managers." Okay, I'm answering that question, what the heck do you do? What do you do? And so many people don't put what they do in the header of their website. Just answer the question, what do you do? And it, it seems obvious to you, but it's not obvious to someone who's visiting your website for the first time. **Kris:** Coaching for managers who are ready to align head, heart, and body for centered leadership. So the part that I would push back on here is centered leadership. Mm-hmm. Um, that's a term, you know what that means, \[00:22:00\] and that is really meaningful for you, but the general public doesn't actually know what that means. So I might use a different word that it just doesn't cause any confusion at all, that doesn't make the brain burn any calories. So- **Kris:** I would, I would use a very simple word like, effective or impact- Oh ... impactful **Kris:** That's true. That's true. It could go either way, right? **Mindy:** I've had some impactful leadership- ... and not, not for good. **Kris:** Right. Right, right. Yeah. It impacted me in not the best way. **Kris:** So here we've got her header completely dialed in. What do you do? How's it gonna make my life better? And what do you want me to do next? So we're really weaving in, how's it gonna make my life better? That's what the brain always wants to know. We're, we're communicating what \[00:23:00\] she does, coaching for managers. Who she does it for, who's the hero? Managers. And managers who are, are ready to align head, heart, and body for effective leadership. So this is a 10 out of 10. **Kris:** like it. Totally nailed it. Totally nail- nailed it. So now what we're gonna move to is, um- The next part of the story. So Every movie you've ever watched, every book you've ever read, every story you've ever heard always begins with the hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. So now that we have just allowed our visitor to know that they're in the right place, we have just bought more time with them. Now they're gonna scroll, they're gonna stay on the page number one, which is the first battle. They're gonna stay on the page. Not only that, we've been clear enough, and we've built enough trust, even though it's just a very quick five seconds, we've bought more time with them. So now they're gonna scroll down to the next \[00:24:00\] section, and the next section should always begin with the hero's problem. When we begin with our hero's problem, we help them feel seen, heard, not alone in their struggle. Most importantly, they're gonna be like, "Mindy's in my head. If she understands me to this degree, she's obviously the best one to solve it." So we're gonna move into that problem section here. The overarching problem is many capable managers dread difficult conversations. Are you struggling with avoidant or disassociating behavior or self-abandonment when the pressure is on? Second-guessing yourself even when you know what needs to be said or done. Feeling misaligned between what you say and how you act and feel. Reacting automatically instead of responding with clarity and intention. Self-sabotaging in moments that matter most. **Mindy:** I love this page because to me, I'm like, "Yep, yep, yep." Oh, I just feel like it's so relatable. All these things \[00:25:00\] are so relatable, **Kris:** totally. The, the one that I want to refine or that I'm wanting to rethink is this first one. I'm wondering if there's a way we can say this more simply, because I don't know if they would self-identify as I'm having disassociating behavior. **Mindy:** Yeah, I, I, I had a feeling that you would push back on that one. so my intent was also to have, you know me and my commas, to have a comma after behavior, but I, yes, I understand what you're saying. **Mindy:** I think avoi- avoidance and self-abandonment is disassociating, so we can go ahead and remove disassociating behavior. **Kris:** Okay. Now here's my next question. When you get on the phone with them, are, are they gonna complain about self-abandonment? You might diagnose it as that, but are they gonna use those words? **Mindy:** I would say that my \[00:26:00\] clients use that word, and they say, you know, "All of a sudden I, I go to a different place," or, "I no longer feel my body," or, "I..." **Kris:** Okay. okay. So, so they do use the word, "I abandon myself," or, "I feel- **Mindy:** yeah. And again, I think part of it too, Kris, is this demographic that I'm supporting at this moment in time- **Mindy:** and want to continue to support, are professionals. And so they are, they have a different vernacular than- Yep ... you know- **Kris:** You're not, you're not dealing with the general public. So as, as long as you can do the litmus test of, "These are words that I hear come out of their mouth-" Yes I'm, I'm good with it. I'm good with it. Okay. That's, that's where we w- Often as a coach or consultant, someone'll tell us something and we'll know what it actually means even though they're not using those words. And \[00:27:00\] so we don't wanna use our diagnosis. We wanna use the words that they're actually using. **Mindy:** Yes. So- And I would also say too, two things that you called out. Well, one thing that you called out for me specifically that I'm sure you call out to a lot of clients is we tend to use our vernacular that isn't necessarily something that the public will understand, so it's a really good thing to bring up again. **Kris:** The curse of knowledge is what that's called. **Mindy:** The curse of knowledge. I love that. It's so true. **Mindy:** And you know, as I said, I think that there's, there's a- An education or an exposure level of people that are coming from the professional environment that ... Yeah. And plus, there's, uh, there's a lot more self-help that's at people's fingertips through social media, so I think that there **Kris:** You can always make edits. I mean, that's the beauty. We've got the wire frames so we can really get it dialed in, but I, I'm really glad you brought that up because \[00:28:00\] we need to stop putting so much pressure on ourselves about getting the website perfect. **Kris:** tool that- It is ... you can continually hone, hone, refine, hone, hone over time. I- Yeah ... refine my website a couple times a year. Sometimes I go- Oh ... a year without doing that. But it's, it's not uncommon to have a, a handful of conversations with clients and then come back to your website and go, "Oh, you know what? I'm gonna say that a little bit differently than I currently have it here." So don't feel like I mean, this is one of the wonderful things about building your own website is that- **Kris:** you're gonna know how to easily go in there and make a quick word change or a price change or a headline change, and it's not gonna be a big thing, right? **Mindy:** Well, and that's a good, that's a good thing to teach too, Kris, is, that it's important to self-audit- **Mindy:** once a year. You know- Totally ... maybe you Yeah ... once a year go in \[00:29:00\] and see. Like, is it, does it still hold true? **Kris:** 100%. Once a year for sure you should be doing that, and be thinking about the conversations that you've had, the clients that you've really enjoyed working with, the ones that you've really... that have gotten incredible results for you, the ones that you want more of, and then really hone your message on your website so it's really gonna resonate with them. And I'll tell you, after 23 years doing the work that I do, I'm still honing my message. It is really, like, because either I'll have more clarity about who I love working with or I'll have changed as a business owner. Sure. And so it's on both sides, things just are ever-changing. **Kris:** the good news is when you do the groundwork of getting your website clear and strategic, it will work for you, and you won't have to change it more than once a year. You certainly can if you want to, if you have insights, but I do encourage you not \[00:30:00\] to become what I call a noodler, somebody who- Mm stays up late night tweaking, tweaking, tweaking the website, because you need to give it time to work for you, and you need to get enough people, enough eyeballs on the website to be able to understand if it's working or not. And sometimes we get so eager to, to troubleshoot it- Mm-hmm ... that sometimes you kind of, like, the more you massage clay, the more it kind of turns into mush. **Kris:** Okay. Um, the only thing that I would change here is I think I'd like to lead with one of these other problems. So of the, of the four here, what do you think is the most no-brainer? What would you like to lead with? **Kris:** Okay. I love it And we can even put the avoidant or self-abandonment, um, right below, or sorry, right above self-sabotaging Okay. \[00:31:00\] Yep, and so that's another thing. So we've got the overarching problem, which is many capable managers dread difficult conversations. Then I recommend you have three to five bullets underneath that that get into the more nuanced, like the minutiae of their actual problem, and what does that problem look and feel like for them day to day? Yes. So we've totally nailed Mindy's problems section. Many capable managers dread difficult conversations. Are you struggling with second-guessing yourself even when you know what needs to be said or done? Feeling misaligned between what you say and how you act and feel? Reacting automatically instead of responding with clarity and intention? Avoidant or self-abandonment when the pressure is on. Self-sabotaging in moments that matter most. So notice you **Mindy:** don't have to- I don't know if you'd say avoiding. Avoiding versus avoidant. Are you struggling with avoidant or e- avoidant behavior or self-abandonment? Maybe that's it. It, either, it's either avoiding or \[00:32:00\] avoidant behavior, so if you want less words, we could say avoiding- **Kris:** I think avoiding is something everyone can relate to. Yeah. And so we've just changed it from avoidant behavior to are you struggling with avoiding or abandoning yourself when the pressure is on? and that just, that just basically put the cherry on the top of this problems section. Yeah. So we're gonna go through, we have a few minutes left, we're gonna go through one more section of the website. Are you feeling good with this the way it is? **Kris:** Okay. And most importantly, when somebody comes to your website, do you feel like they're gonna feel seen and heard and understood when they read these problems? **Kris:** Yep. Okay, great. We've totally nailed that. That's, I would argue, the one of the most important, if not the most important part of your entire story. When we begin with the hero's problem, we literally open up a story loop, and the human brain \[00:33:00\] cannot disengage when a story loop is open. We are pulled in, and we stay engaged until we know that loop has been closed. This is why, when you go to a movie, you can't get up and go to the bathroom in the middle of the movie, because the story loop is open, and you need to be there to find out when it's gonna be closed. **Kris:** So we've opened up that story loop, and very strategically. And now what your visitor is asking themself is three questions: "What's in it for me? What's in it for me? And what's in it for me?" So we wanna spoon-feed this information to them. Too often, coaches and consultants will bury this information in larger paragraphs of copy. So either it's not there on the page at all, or it's in small font within a larger paragraph. No one's gonna read a large paragraph. They just won't. so we have to drip the information to these people little by little in a \[00:34:00\] way that their brain can digest it. So what we wanna do next is we've just articulated our hero's problem. Now what we wanna do is foreshadow success. At the very end of any story, the hero finds success, but we need to reassure their brain that this is worth their while. So we're gonna spoon-feed that information to them upfront in the success section. And we move into this section with a philosophical statement around what you believe to be true. This gets people rallied around your bigger vision for the work that you do. And for Mindy, we have, "I believe contentment comes from being able to access yourself fully." And what a wonderful vision that you have for y- the work that you do. And then we have those three, three success buckets, which are find your center, connect your head with your heart and body to stay grounded, especially when the stakes are high. \[00:35:00\] Build self-trust. Connect to your internal signals so decisions come from alignment instead of anxiety. Notice we're contrasting the benefit with the problem here to show how good the benefit is. Mm-hmm. Um, and the first one we have, stay grounded, especially when the stakes are high. In this one we've got, make your decisions from alignment instead of anxiety. And then we've got lead with confidence. Show up as the calm, capable leader others respect and follow and want to emulate. I feel **Kris:** that I love that. That's- Because- ... that's the ultimate compliment, right? **Mindy:** It, it's, it is the three things, right? It's like you respect the person, you, you trust that you can follow them and, and, they're not gonna lead you astray. And then ultimately when it comes to your own leadership, you're like, "How do I emulate that?" **Kris:** And everybody has a leader or a mentor in their life that they want to emulate and that they aspire to become, and what a wonderful thing that you're gonna help leaders become that for other people. And ... I can just see the \[00:36:00\] leaders that you work with and the managers that you work with really, really resonating with them. So the other thing that I wanna talk about in this section is the call to action. So we have book a leadership strategy call, and you'll notice she could have put book a call. She could put, could have put learn more. She could have put, book a discovery call. But we chose intentionally book a leadership strategy call because we wanna show these leaders that this is not just a sales call. They're actually gonna leave with value. This is gonna be worth their time. Whether they hire Mindy or not, this is going to be valuable for them. Mm-hmm. So, any thoughts before we leave this section? **Mindy:** I would just say I, I really feel that these three pages of content, Represent, represent not only the work I do but what I feel a lot of passion and charge around, of wanting to support people and help them get to a place \[00:37:00\] that they can trust themselves. I mean, so I love that I'm like, "Yeah, this, I like this. This really is... I really feel like this is capturing me and what I'm after." Mm-hmm. I- the only thing I would say is and I just have to hope that people read between the lines, is I'm applying this to leaders with an organization, whether that's entrepreneurship, whether that's, working for an organization, whatever that looks like. But these, practices and these ways of working that I help, you build is actually applicable to all areas of life. And so, that's what I would just hope that people, they don't say to themselves, "Well, I'm not a manager or a leader," or, "I'm now retired." You know? It's, it's applicable to all people, regardless of whether you're in a professional life or not. **Kris:** So here's the deal. if we're gonna cast a really wide net, we're not gonna attract- Yes ... the right people. So we do need to niche down, but I wanna tell you and I wanna reassure you that when you're clear on your messaging in \[00:38:00\] this way, people are gonna resonate with it. I refer to it as the 80/20 rule. So we're speaking to 80% of the people that you wanna work with. That's good for- **Kris:** there, there are going to be another 20%, I don't wanna call them riffraff 'cause they're not riffraff, but they're outside of this particular manager leader role. They're gonna, they're gonna really resonate with what you're saying. Or they'll have hear about you and come to your website, they're really gonna resonate with it. Maybe they're in retirement. Maybe they're just mentoring others or they're, they're in a different kind of phase of life or role, and they're gonna resonate with this anyway and they're gonna come to you anyway. Yeah. So just so you know, like this kind of clarity isn't gonna kick people out of your story. Those 20% are gonna come no matter what. But the 80%, we're really gonna nail, that are gonna come to you. **Mindy:** Yeah. And I guess I would just say that it's for the listener that this is something to remind yourself of when you are building your website, that, what Kris is \[00:39:00\] saying is true. Because I have to remind myself, it's not that the everyday person isn't gonna wanna work with me. It is true, it's the 20%. And so not losing sight of, who is your, lion's share client? what is that, demographic or, Yeah. So. **Kris:** Totally. Yeah. Like for example, I work with coaches and consultants and service providers. If you work with clients, I work with you to help you get more clients, right? So that's really who I work with. every now and then people will come to me, people that sell a widget or sell some kind of product- Story Brand strategy works well whether you're a service provider or you're selling a product or you're in some other... Like, story is really universal, so every now and then- Mm ... I'll work with a client who is, is selling a product rather than a service, and it's all good. they, they come to my website, they resonate with my message even though they're \[00:40:00\] not a coach or consultant. So- Yeah. all right. So what we're gonna do next is we're gonna have Mindy back on, and we're gonna continue to work through her website and keep honing and helping you kind of watch the process of how we craft these wire frames together, and how we collaborate and refine and get clarity, and then we get to watch Mindy actually build this website. So how are you feeling about being in this phase of the process? **Mindy:** I'm excited. I, I was just telling Tina, my wife, that I feel like there's a momentum happening now, and I think it's because things are actually starting to gel together. And what's, to, to your point, what's in here and in here, my head and my heart, is now actually being articulated on paper and screen. **Kris:** And what's your plan? What, builder are you gonna use? And are you gonna, block off a day to do it? Are you gonna do it a little bit here and there? what's your \[00:41:00\] execution plan? **Mindy:** Yeah. So I think I'm gonna use Wix. And,I also have thought, well, yes, setting aside a day. I actually am going to California, soon, and I will be having 10 days by myself. Mm-hmm. Which is a really good time to just get some stuff done. So I'm really excited about that. So, while I would hope to get it done sooner than that, I'm also being gentle with myself because I have other irons in the fire. So, it just takes time, you know? So I would like to think that I'll have it done in two weeks time, but the reality is I'll probably get it doneprobably, like, end of June, I would say. **Kris:** Oh, that's right around the corner. Yeah. And just so you know, like, I just wanna encourage you, because we're getting really, really clear on this wire frame, once you get into Wix, it's gonna come together really quickly, 'cause you're gonna know exactly what you need to do, and you won't have to do the whole second-guessing, figuring it out. Like, you don't wanna build the plane while you're flying it. **Mindy:** Right. I'm just, I'm just so excited. I, I, I \[00:42:00\] actually feel a giddiness. I feel a giddiness, about seeing everything kind of come together. So I'm just so grateful for you, so thank you. **Kris:** Oh, my gosh. Such a joy to help you. Thank you for joining me today, and being open and vulnerable about your journey through the process. **Kris:** Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/squad ### Title: squad ### Page ID: 9570236 ### Content: # Now let me *tell you* about the Launch Squad. #### But first, think about someone who changed your life. # Behind every changed life is someone who *showed up* to help. # In addition to your pre-order bonuses... #### Fix Your Homepage Training #### Podcast Mini-Series #### Soundbite Strategy Challenge # Launch Squad members get *showered* with gifts worth over $3k. #### Business Clarity Workshop #### **Launch Day Webinar** #### Messaging Clarity Workshop # So you can walk away with more clarity and a simpler path to more clients. #### Early Access to the Full Book #### **You'll also get a front-row seat to this book launch** #### **Total Value —** Yours FREE as a Launch Squad Member # Being part of the Launch Squad means saying *yes* to three things. #### Writing this book has been one of the greatest honors of my career. # It has also been one of the *hardest* things I've ever done. # For nearly two years, Donald and I poured our *hearts* into these pages. # If you sell your expertise, your thinking, or your time, this book is for you. #### Because what you're really selling is a transformation. # How these strategies help grow *simple* and *profitable* businesses. #### I'm closing 95% of my sales calls now that I have clarity. #### I saw a 986% increase in conversions in the first 30 days! #### I made back 20X the investment in a weekend! Best money spent. #### I'm now charging 6X more for the exact same service. #### I booked my first $15K speaking gig using my new messaging. #### Clients are already sold before I get on the call. # Written by the creator of StoryBrand and one of the first guides to *prove it works* for coaches. #### Donald Miller, StoryBrand Founder #### Kris Jones, Red Door Founder #### Together, we can make that happen. # Got Questions? Someone who showed up at exactly the right time with the wisdom, encouragement, or guidance you needed. Whoever came to mind, I have a feeling they didn't just change your circumstances. **Every day, coaches, consultants, and service providers help people through some of life's biggest moments.** ***The heartbreaking part is that many of these incredible people struggle to explain what they do in a way that makes the right people want to work with them.*** That moment of confusion doesn't just cost an expert a client. It keeps someone in need from finding the person who could have made a real difference in their life. I've spent the last twenty-three years helping experts clarify their message because I believe the people who change lives deserve to be found. That's why Donald Miller and I wrote ***StoryBrand Your Coaching Business****.* ***Because when the people who change lives are easy to find, the whole world gets better.*** Steal the exact homepage formula Kris uses to turn visitors into clients. In this 30-minute training, you'll learn what to say, what to remove, and how to build trust in seconds so more people book. Get early access to a private seven-part podcast series with Donald Miller and Kris Jones, where they unpack the biggest ideas from the book and show you how to put them to work before the official release. Join Kris for a live 3-day challenge and leave with a soundbite that makes people instantly understand what you do. Plus, get an exclusive VIP after-party with Donald Miller. Free when you pre-order. Bring whatever you're working on. Through live Q&A and hot-seat coaching, I'll put twenty-three years of experience to work on your business. This includes your website, your offers, your sales conversations, your pricing, and your marketing. Don and I are going live the day before StoryBrand Your Coaching Business launches. In one hour, we'll show you how to turn your coaching expertise into a message that actually books clients. You'll get the core framework from the book, plus live Q&A, so bring what you're stuck on. We'll simplify your messaging so people immediately understand what you do, who you help, and why they should choose you. I'm keeping this group small so everyone gets personal attention. Bring your soundbite, your positioning, your offer, or just a list of questions. Receive a free digital copy of *StoryBrand Your Coaching Business* before the official release. Read it early, share what resonates, and if you'd like, send me a short note about what it meant to you. With your permission, we may share your words during launch. (September) As a Launch Squad member, you'll be the first to know everything — the milestones and moments that happen behind the scenes of a major book launch. You'll see what this process actually looks like from the inside, and we'll celebrate every win together. **Share the book in whatever way feels natural**. Social media, your newsletter, your podcast, or text a recommendation to friends. **Write a brief endorsement.** You don't need to have read the book. Just share what you know about me and the work I do. From Bestselling Author, Donald Miller, and the StoryBrand Coach of Coaches, Kris Jones Founder of StoryBrand and Host of the [*StoryBrand Podcast*](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-storybrand-podcast/id1092751338) Host of top-rated Podcast: [***From Click to Client***](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/from-click-to-client-brand-messaging-website-marketing/id1787187223) & Founder of Red Door Stories **If you've been part of my world for a while, I hope you know you've had a hand in this book, too.** They've shaped this book more than you probably realize. Before it goes out into the world, I'd love to invite you to help me launch it. ***If you believe the people who change lives should be easy to find, I hope you'll join the Launch Squad.*** **Consultants, Financial Advisors, Therapists, and Service Providers have achieved incredible results with these strategies.** Donald Miller is the bestselling author of Building a StoryBrand which has helped hundreds of thousands of businesses clarify their message and grow. His book has sold over one million copies. Known as the coach of coaches, Kris Jones is one of Donald Miller's first certified StoryBrand Guides. Over the last 20 years, she has helped thousands of experts turn what they know into thriving and profitable businesses. I've already read Building a StoryBrand. Is this book still for me? Whether you're a longtime StoryBrand fan or brand new to the framework, this book will meet you where you are. It's built around 12 practical strategies for anyone who sells their expertise, their thinking, or their time — coaches, consultants, financial advisors, therapists, online business owners, and anyone else whose work is built around helping people get from where they are to where they want to be. Two reasons. First, the three bonuses valued at $1097 are only for people who pre-order by April 6th. They go away on launch day. Second, pre-orders help decide how widely the book gets distributed. Coaches make the world better, one person at a time. But they can't help anyone if no one can tell what they do. The more coaches who find this book, the more people they get to reach. Pre-ordering helps put it in their hands. I'm a consultant or advisor, not technically a "coach." Is this still relevant? Absolutely. If you sell your expertise, your thinking, or your time — if what you're really selling is a transformation — this book is for you. Consultants, financial advisors, therapists, and service providers of all kinds have used these strategies with significant results. What if I'm just starting out? Is this too advanced? This book is helpful for people in the early stages because it shows you how to build on a clear foundation from the start. Coaches who begin with clear messaging grow faster and waste less money on marketing that doesn't work. The official release date is October 20, 2026. Your pre-order will be fulfilled by Amazon on or around that date. The bonuses, however, will be available as they are ready once you submit your receipt before October 19. Pre-order the book on Amazon, then submit your order confirmation number using this form. You'll get access to your gifts as they become available, and you'll receive details for th *A Boutique Creative Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/squad-thanks ### Title: squad-thanks ### Page ID: 9586259 ### Content: # First, join the Launch Squad on Skool # Here's a look at what's ahead: ***You'll leave knowing the #1 messaging mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** This book has been two years in the making, and knowing you're in it with me makes the experience feel even more meaningful. **Skool** is where we'll connect between now and launch day. You'll find resources, updates, and the rest of the squad waiting for you there. **Check your inbox.** A welcome email is on its way. If you don't see it in the next few minutes, check your spam folder and add *kris@reddoorstories.com* to your contacts. *A Boutique Creative Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - **Two live workshops** with Kris, exclusively for the Launch Squad (dates coming soon) - **Your free digital copy** of *StoryBrand Your Coaching Business* before the official release - **Everything you need to help spread the word**, already written and ready to share - **Behind-the-scenes launch updates** - **A private seven-part podcast series** with Donald Miller and me, walking through all 12 strategies in the book - **Fix Your Homepage Training**, a 60-minute training where I show you exactly how to turn your homepage into your best sales tool - **A VIP ticket to the Soundbite Strategy Challenge with Donald Miller**, four live sessions where you'll build your soundbites from scratch, plus a VIP hot seat with Donald on Day 4 - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/launch-squad-sign-up ### Title: Launch Squad Sign Up ### Page ID: 9598876 ### Content: Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/energy-over-time-debbie-heiser ### Title: The Real Business Growth Strategy Is Managing Energy, with Debbie Heiser ### Page ID: 9628538 ### Content: # Business Storytelling Is the Part AI Has to Borrow ## About This Episode ## What You'll Walk Away With ## Questions This Episode Answers ## Meet Dr. J.J. Peterson ## Connect with Kris Jones # The Real Business Growth Strategy Is Managing Energy, with Debbie Heiser ***You'll leave knowing the #1 mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** The Real Business Growth Strategy Is Managing Energy, with Debbie Heiser Why the stories only you can tell are the one thing a prompt cannot generate, and how to find them in the work you have already done. Your content has started to feel flatter, and you cannot quite name why. The words are fine. They are also the words everybody else in your field is using, and somewhere in the back of your mind you know the tool you drafted with had something to do with it. In this episode I am talking with Dr. J.J. Peterson, who holds a PhD in communication with an emphasis in narrative theory and spent two decades inside StoryBrand. He explains the research behind why business storytelling moves people at all, then gets practical about where a point of view actually comes from. His answer is not a brand exercise. It is the moments in your work where something went badly and you grew from it, the two or three familiar ideas only you have stacked together, and the joy that makes people trust a human over a machine. If you have ever thought everybody in my field says what I say, this is the conversation that gives you a way out of it. How do you stand out in marketing when AI makes everyone sound the same? What is narrative transportation and why does it matter in marketing? How do you find your unique point of view in business? How do you tell your own story without making yourself the hero? Since 2013, Dr. J.J. Peterson has used the StoryBrand Framework to help thousands of organizations clarify their message and grow their business. He holds a PhD in Communication, has spent 20 years practicing and teaching communication theory, and is an adjunct professor in the Master of Marketing program at Vanderbilt University's Owen School of Business. As Head of StoryBrand he traveled the world facilitating workshops and keynotes, and companies like Microsoft and Certified Angus Beef along with thought leaders like Amy Porterfield and Donald Miller have worked with him to clarify their message. [**Visit J.J.'s Website**](https://drjjpeterson.com) [**Follow on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/drjjpeterson) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/drjjpeterson) Kris Jones is the founder of Red Door Stories, a Certified StoryBrand Guide, and a messaging strategist who helps service providers, coaches, and consultants clarify their marketing message so they can attract consistent clients. Her core belief: simplicity is a strategic advantage. Less noise, clearer message, more traction. [**Book a Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/) [**Grab the Free StoryBrand Soundbites Toolkit**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/free-resources) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/reddoorstory) [**Subscribe to Kris's YouTube Channel and Learn How to Attract More Clients**](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp2qSBrlNsDU7KTGZV74o0w/) **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of \[00:00:15\] story Dr. JJ Peterson, I am so delighted to have you here. JJ and I have known each other now about a decade because JJ and- ... Donald Miller were a \[00:00:30\] two, two-man band, or a three-man band, three-person band with Koula Callahan, way back in the early days. And so I have known you a long time, and it's just such a joy to have you here on the show, and I've been \[00:00:45\] really looking forward to it. So welcome, and thank you for being here. **J.J.:** \[00:00:49\] Oh, my gosh. Such an honor, and likewise. Like, before we even started recording, we talked for like 20 minutes 'cause we're just like, "We just keep going." **J.J.:** \[00:00:58\] ready for our- It's like, "We gotta get down to business. Let's actually \[00:01:00\] record a podcast here." **Kris:** \[00:01:01\] Yeah, let me hit record. Yeah. And Tim, Tim Ferriss, eat your heart out with your two-hour podcast episodes. So, a little bit about JJ. He has spent \[00:01:15\] a couple of decades helping business owners get clear on their message so they can truly stand out in a crowded market. And he, as I mentioned, has been one of the, the key leaders inside the StoryBrand community and \[00:01:30\] been Donald Miller's thought partner as they've grown this business. And now you are leaning into a new brand, your own brand, which is, as you can see in the background if you're watching this on video, Badass Softy. And \[00:01:45\] it's not only his business, I love the logo, but it's also a podcast, which I was on recently. So congratulations on this kind of new chapter for you. **J.J.:** \[00:01:57\] Thanks. It's been real fun. It, it feels like, \[00:02:00\] uh, in some ways a new chapter, and in some ways just a continuation of what, has been happening. You know, I was with StoryBrand and Don for, I think, 13, 14 years, and, and loved it, and have continued, continue to... I'm actually still there. I still have a \[00:02:15\] title there. It's called professor-in-residence, so I still teach and kind of do curriculum, and I just got a meeting on my calendar next week with him. And so, um, still involved, but really kind of moving into building some of my own things. You know, as a business owner, you, like, \[00:02:30\] get to a point where you're like, "Well, I'd like to not have to ask off for vacation and take it when I want," you know? Right. Like things like that. And so it's like I started kind of building my own thing, and still a continuation of that and a little bit of expanding on it a little. **Kris:** \[00:02:43\] Totally. And, and \[00:02:45\] along the way, you have gone and gotten your doctorate in story. Is that right? At Vanderbilt? Or is that where you teach? **J.J.:** \[00:02:52\] That's where I teach. Okay. I teach in the master's program at Vanderbilt, master's of marketing in, um, at Vanderbilt, but my PhD is in communication \[00:03:00\] with an emphasis in narrative theory and narrative marketing. And so my whole study was to look at, I mean, story has always been kind of my world, and fascinated by and studied. And even as part of my PhD, I flew to Oxford \[00:03:15\] and, studied Lewis and Tolkien, and it just kind of had- Wow ... it's, like, the best PhD ever. And, then, and movies and all that. And so I wanted to know with my dissertation, essentially, does story work, like wha- \[00:03:30\] and why does wor- story work, and I actually, took me about 10 years is how long I worked on it. It's about as long as you're allowed to. And really studied what makes people move and connect and, change their minds, and then how \[00:03:45\] do you bring that into just your storytelling in general, and then also specifically messaging and marketing. **Kris:** \[00:03:51\] And you had, been in lots of different industries, that were related to story before StoryBrand, so this is kind \[00:04:00\] of your passion in many ways- ... obviously, if you're getting your doctorate in, in it. I'm curious. You, you knew a lot about story before you went back to school. Yeah. What did you learn that was surprising to you?\[00:04:15\] **J.J.:** \[00:04:15\] Well, what was interesting is, if you would have known me pre-StoryBrand, people would have said I was all over the place. It never felt like that to me, but like I was an actor and a director, like in Hollywood, and wrote and developed a television show and wrote \[00:04:30\] screenplays. And then I also was a professor. I taught communication and leadership at a university. I also did nonprofit work, where specifically I did marketing and built websites. So everybody's like, "Oh, wait, you're a marketer. Oh, wait, no, you're in- you're into writing movies. Oh, \[00:04:45\] wait, you're a professor." And it felt like all over the place. So when I found StoryBrand, it genuinely felt like, oh, finally, all my passions have kind of all come together. Yes. And that was really fun for me. In fact, like when I met Don, I was \[00:05:00\] a, I was a dean of students at a university, and I was, I had just sold a television show to a production company, and I was leaving that s- school to go do the TV show. And kind of as a gift to myself, I had been a fan of Don's. He was a \[00:05:15\] writer and, you know, and I'd watched even his movie and everything, and I was like, "I'm gonna hire this guy to come speak to my students so I can hear him." Like, it was kind of like a farewell gift to me. 'Cause I reached out to his team, who I didn't know at the time, and just said, "Can he come speak?" And he said, \[00:05:30\] "Yes." And we met, and like kind of instantly clicked, and he started hearing everything I was doing, and he's like, "I'm launching this thing called StoryBrand." It didn't really exist yet. It was called StoryLine at the time. And he said, "Why don't you come and rebrand \[00:05:45\] yourself? You're moving out of education into entertainment. How, you know..." And when I came out to the first workshop, I was just like, "Oh, you jerk. This is what I've been trying to do for 20 years, and you figured it out." You know? Yes. And so and that's just, that was \[00:06:00\] the beginning of, you know, like 13, 14 years ago of now continuing to work together in it. And so I was working on my PhD actually to teach, 'cause I was a professor before I even came to StoryBrand, and then finished it while I was at StoryBrand, and kind of \[00:06:15\] redirected it a little bit to fit what we were doing. the biggest thing for me of discovery, I, I would say the kind of the area that I just went, "Oh, okay, this all makes sense," because I, I said what I wanted to discover in my PhD is how story works \[00:06:30\] and, like, does it work and how? And understanding that story is formulaic, you and I know that from being in the StoryBrand world, that there are actually rules to story. But the biggest thing that surprised me was there's this, the area that I really \[00:06:45\] studied was a, a area called narrative transportation, and it's the idea that when you experience a good story, you transport yourself into that. So, like, if you're in a movie and you laugh or you see something scary and you \[00:07:00\] jump, you've experienced narrative transportation. Now, to help people experience or, more importantly, break narrative transportation, there are actually rules around that as well. Mm. So when people \[00:07:15\] experience narrative transportation, the more they experience, the more influence that story has on their thoughts and their actions. So that was one thing that just m- There's actual research around that story can change your mind and \[00:07:30\] change the way you act. But the only reason that can happen is if you experience this thing called narrative transportation. Right. Now, there is a 15... I'm getting very nerdy here in this, but- I love it ... I get very excited. Keep going. So- **J.J.:** \[00:07:40\] there's actually, the people who basically developed the idea around \[00:07:45\] narrative transportation created this 15-point scale. There's kind of like 15 things that if you don't hit them, it breaks narrative transportation. So there's, there's a lot of different kind of intricate rules to it. But really, the \[00:08:00\] two most important things that people have to experience when they see a story, if it's gonna have influence on them, is they have to see themselves in the story in some form, whether that is because they relate to an \[00:08:15\] emotion, a situation, or an action that the character is in, taking or in. So they have to see themselves in the story. And then the second thing is the story has to have what is called fidelity and coherency. It needs to stick together, \[00:08:30\] meaning it needs to follow the rules of story. So if you can achieve those two things in a movie, in a book, and, but the research also shows in marketing that people can see themselves in the story and the story sticks together and makes sense, the \[00:08:45\] research shows you will experience narrative transportation, and therefore that story will have a higher level of influence on your thoughts and actions. So when I came to StoryBrand, one of the really interesting things, so when you do your PhD and you \[00:09:00\] do a dissertation, you have to do, you have to add to scholarship, which means that you're not ever allowed to repeat something some- You, I can't just summarize somebody else's research, you know? So I can't just do, like, how to write a good \[00:09:15\] story. Well, some, millions of people have written on that. Or, um, I can't do, like, originally I was studying comedy for quite a few years, of how to use comedy in story and the influence comedy has. Mm-hmm. Different things like that. But the area that it came down to was, weirdly \[00:09:30\] enough in academia, nobody had ever showed a very clear path of how to easily achieve fidelity and coherency and make sure the person sees themselves in the story. So they could measure if somebody saw themself in the story, and they could \[00:09:45\] measure the impact of the lack of fidelity and coherency in a story and its influence, but nobody in academia had said, "Here's how to achieve it." So when we created the stuff at StoryBrand, we were actually the first in the academic \[00:10:00\] world to say, "Here's how you actually achieve the top two levels for narrative transportation. You make the story about your customer, and you do that by identifying who the character is. The character is your, the hero of the story is your customer, \[00:10:15\] and you identify very early on what it is that they want, and then what problem they have." Those two things in marketing guarantee that you are making the story about your customer, and they will see themselves in it. And then second, what StoryBrand did is \[00:10:30\] gave us seven elements that have to be in a story for it to make sense, meaning we created the system for fidelity and coherency in a narrative. So That's what surprised me, is one, influence can be \[00:10:45\] measured. It's really measured by this one thing called narrative transportation, and then the way that you achieve narrative transportation is by making the character see themselves, making the audience see themselves in the story, and having fidelity and coherency. Mm. And when I \[00:11:00\] discovered that, and then I basically went back with the StoryBrand framework to my advisors and said, "Hey, I'm not finding anywhere this. This is how you achieve fidelity and coherency and see themselves in the story." And they all went, "Yeah, nobody's ever done \[00:11:15\] this before." And So Don often introduces me as the world's leading academic expert in the StoryBrand framework. That's because when I wrote this dissertation, nobody had ever written what we had written before. And so any time, \[00:11:30\] the, the trick is any time you have a PhD, you are the leading academic expert in your area because nobody else has ever written about that before. Because **Kris:** \[00:11:37\] that's the rule. You can't repeat. So. Yeah. **J.J.:** \[00:11:41\] So anyway, that's a long way around it, but that was really kind of what \[00:11:45\] surprised me, and then also what we discovered along the way. **Kris:** \[00:11:48\] Wow. That's really cool. I didn't realize that that's how you had o- originally met Don, and I didn't know that one-two punch, those two components when \[00:12:00\] working together can really basically- Achieve narrative transformation, AKA time travel. **J.J.:** \[00:12:08\] It's like you Yeah ... What it really does in the way that your m- it works with your mind is it allows your mind to kind \[00:12:15\] of not have to think about all the other things. Because when you create this kind of system for people or the, the clarity in the story, It does the thinking for your brain. Got it. So it actually helps your brain kinda enter into. So often what \[00:12:30\] we say at StoryBrand is you're not... When you're creating good marketing, a lot of people say, "I wanna tell our story." And we say, "No, you can't tell your story. You have to tell your customer's." But then really it's actually you're not telling your customer's story. What you're doing is you're \[00:12:45\] inviting your customer into a story that they can see themselves and make sense. **Kris:** \[00:12:48\] Yes. Uh, I, I like to talk about it that way because it feels much more accurate. You- **Kris:** \[00:12:54\] it is a, a story that you're sharing with your customer. You're obviously the \[00:13:00\] guide, they're the hero. They're the central figure, and for a lot of the people that I work with, that's kind of a relief. Like, they're in the story- Mm-hmm ... but they're not the central character. They're the strongest character, which is also \[00:13:15\] wonderful. but yeah, it's, it's tricky. I think a lot of people want to tell their company's story, and I think it's really important. Not that you can't do that, but if you want to make money and grow the business, \[00:13:30\] first you have to tell a story where y- your ideal client is the hero and you're the guide. **J.J.:** \[00:13:36\] Yeah. And what I've just kind of talked about is the research shows if you make yourself the hero or your business the hero, it will not... It has \[00:13:45\] been proven, there's research to show it will not have as much influence or impact as the other version. It just won't. Right. **J.J.:** \[00:13:52\] So it's not even, like, what we... Like, I think for me what drew me to the framework in the beginning, honestly, was that. It was like, oh, I don't have to \[00:14:00\] sell anything anymore. I don't have to push- Right ... or try to make myself sound better than everybody else. I get to show up and be s- and serve as the guide. That's what originally drew me to the framework. Right. But then as I discovered it, it was like, oh, not only is that \[00:14:15\] a, a more fun way to live as a human, in my opinion, but also it actually has been proven to be more effective. So if you- Yeah ... try to make yourself the hero, you'll get attention, but you won't actually make an impact. **Kris:** \[00:14:27\] Right. Right. It's not gonna get \[00:14:30\] the boat that you're on to the destination that you're hoping to get to. **Kris:** \[00:14:35\] Yeah. would you say... Okay, we're talking about story in business, but would you say that you can also use story as a tool \[00:14:45\] for healing? **J.J.:** \[00:14:47\] Mm, mm-hmm. Oh, in so many ways. Because what story does is it actually takes... So when we, we, when we say that story has rules, what we're actually saying is \[00:15:00\] the rules act as a filter and give meaning and purpose and direction for events. Mm-hmm. So what happens is when you're telling an actual story, a good story to yourself, to other people, \[00:15:15\] what you're doing is you're filtering out the information that is in any given situation down to the meaningful moments. Mm. So like today, you know, there's been a lot of things that have happened in my day \[00:15:30\] But like, including like, "Oh, I made breakfast this morning. I had coffee. I, cleaned off the counter. I took a phone call." but at the end of the day when I'm sitting down with my husband and talking about the day and he goes, "So what did you do today?" I'm gonna find the \[00:15:45\] one or two moments, probably this podcast being one of them, and say, "Oh, there was this moment today when I was talking with Kris," and, right? So I've filtered out all the other meaningless kind of things. So that's one \[00:16:00\] piece is it helps, story helps organize and give meaning to and highlight the important pieces. The other thing to remember is that a good story always involves transformation. So a hero in a \[00:16:15\] story is never the same at the end of the story as they are at the beginning. Like, Luke Skywalker is an orphan on a planet, you know, alone. By the end of Star Wars, he's a Jedi. He literally transforms. He becomes somebody different. **J.J.:** \[00:16:29\] Katniss in \[00:16:30\] Hunger Games, kind of an orphan also. Yes. Trying to take care of her family. She becomes the Mockingjay. Story involves transformation. If there's no transformation, it's just an anecdote. It's not a story. If you're like, "What'd you have for breakfast?" I'm like, \[00:16:45\] "Eggs." And you're like, "Wow, fascinating." You're not saying that, right? It's not interesting. But if I learn a lesson from my eggs this morning or it transformed me, now it becomes an interesting story. So a lot of times what can happen \[00:17:00\] when you're telling a story, even for yourself, is what you're doing is you're looking for where were the moments that I transformed? Where are the moments where I learned something and became somebody different? Because when I can identify those selves, 'cause a lot of times we don't see \[00:17:15\] ourselves, we live in the day to day, so we don't see ourselves as constantly transforming. So we think, "Well, I've been struggling with this and I'm always gonna struggle with this." And really if you pause for two seconds and go, "But three years ago, where were you?" **J.J.:** \[00:17:28\] You can, you can recognize there was a \[00:17:30\] transformation. That's a good story. So story for me gives us kind of that filter and framework, one, to find meaning in the individual moments that often there's five billion in a day. Right. And second, \[00:17:45\] helps us to identify the moments of transformation that are actually important for us to continue to heal and move forward. **Kris:** \[00:17:51\] Oh my gosh, what a beautiful answer, and I just totally resonate with it. I, I've felt the \[00:18:00\] healing power of story, but it's really cool to put words to it like that, so **J.J.:** \[00:18:05\] thank you And then, I mean, there's so much more, like, where of connection. Like, when you and I share a common story and you can see yourself in my story, if I've experienced \[00:18:15\] healing, you can experience healing through me. You know? And, and it's not always a one-to-one, but there's an element of community and tribalism and where we can learn from each other. If I learn to tell my story in a way that's helpful, that's valuable, \[00:18:30\] like, if we're even talking taking it out of even that kind of the healing space, but even in a, like a, a entrepreneur and thought leader, right? If they can learn to put their transformation, their healing, their changing \[00:18:45\] into words, then they can actually show people that there's a path forward for transformation for themselves. Mm. So when I say you cannot be the hero of your own story, what I'm not saying is don't ever share your story. But recognize the \[00:19:00\] parts of the story that you share should be as a guide for other people who want to go on that same transformation. **J.J.:** \[00:19:07\] So if you've moved from here to here, then you're not telling the story about how you did it in... Like, if you were \[00:19:15\] born a billionaire, and you're like, "Well, all you have to do is start a business," that's not gonna tell somebody, right? Like, "All you have to do is just start a business and people will come." And it's like, well, that's not my story, so I can't actually see myself. But if you are a thought leader who, when you were younger, struggled \[00:19:30\] and went through hard things, and even were, like, beaten up and pushed down and overlooked, and then you move to a place of where you actually now help other people move, I can see myself in that story, and I can believe that I have healing and \[00:19:45\] transformation in me as well. **Kris:** \[00:19:46\] yeah. It's a, it's like a meaning-making machine, but also a hope, right? It's the hope and the belief that, oh, if they've done it, that's proof that I can then do it too. Mm. So when, when an \[00:20:00\] entrepreneur is telling their story, the parts that really matter to your ideal clients are really the struggle that you had and that you found a way to overcome that struggle. And you don't get ... You don't have \[00:20:15\] to go into a lotta detail about how you even solved it. You just have to show That you did. **Kris:** \[00:20:22\] Yes. Well, what are, what are some of the mistakes that you've seen entrepreneurs make when \[00:20:30\] it comes to this kind of work? **J.J.:** \[00:20:32\] Yeah, so there's a couple different things. One of the things I'm working with a lot of clients on right now is how to show up with your authentic voice, your human voice. In a world of AI, where, like, everything is kind of insane, \[00:20:45\] and everybody sounds the same, and there's more noise in the market, and everything's generic, how do you show up with an authentic voice? And the first part I will say is a couple mistakes people make is they show up, you know, you and I both know with Donald \[00:21:00\] Miller's framework, one of the things that we talk about is there are really four characters to every story, right? There's a hero, a villain, a victim, and a guide. And those exist in story because they exist in us, right? That we often play the \[00:21:15\] victim, the villain, the hero, and the guide. So just very briefly to describe those is when it comes to a victim, a victim exists only in a narrative. In story framework, a victim only exists in the story to make the hero look \[00:21:30\] good and the villain look bad. They, good stories are never written about victims who stay victims. They're a side character. And so they really just exist to essentially suck energy from other people. So- ... we, when we play \[00:21:45\] the victim, when we play a victim with our own lives, we often show up in a way that is trying to make people feel sorry for us. or we're trying to, blame other people. And when I see \[00:22:00\] leaders, entrepreneurs show up with, as a victim online, you're never gonna write a good story with your life or your business because people aren't gonna trust you. You're there to be rescued, not to help them. So while \[00:22:15\] authenticity can feel like, "Hey guys, ugh, I'm just beaten up right now," and d- like, you wanna be authentic and real, but when you do it in a way that blames other people or is begging for people to work with you because you really need \[00:22:30\] it right now, "Business has been hard. I really need you guys to step up and help me out," you are playing the victim, and that is not a good story. So authenticity does not mean that you show up and share everything, and that's what first mistake, because you will become a victim in the \[00:22:45\] story. Then what ends up happening is the victim, in a, in a narrative context then, if they move outside of becoming a victim, once something bad happens to them, they really have two choices. They can choose to revenge the pain, which becomes a \[00:23:00\] villain, or they can choose to redeem the pain, which is becomes the hero. I believe that villains are victims who just gave up on healing because basically they said it's too hard to try to overcome this hard thing, and so I'm gonna \[00:23:15\] put up a wall and be an asshole to everybody else because that's actually safer for me than to continue to try to heal. And so villains in a story, they often have like a, a, a scar on their face to show you they've been through hard \[00:23:30\] things, but they're trying to revenge the pain. But the thing about villains is people want them to die, right? Like, you root for the villain to die. People don't like the villain. So when you show up as a villain, I think a lot of times that can draw a lot of \[00:23:45\] attention online. Where you're showing up and, you're yelling at people and **Kris:** \[00:23:50\] you're blaming people Like Simon Cowell. Yeah Simon Cowell kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. **J.J.:** \[00:23:53\] Now, and, and he made a, he made a career out of it, but that's in entertainment. It's very entertaining. It gets attention. \[00:24:00\] Yes. But it doesn't build trust. Like- **J.J.:** \[00:24:02\] and so that's when you show up as a villain, you also make a mistake. **J.J.:** \[00:24:07\] The two ways you really wanna show up is as a hero, truthfully, with your own stories, showing that if you're just doing your story, you're showing how you are \[00:24:15\] overcoming or moving forward. Right. And then the biggest transformation is when you get to become the guide, and you actually help other people move forward. So the guide is Obi-Wan Kenobi, it's Yoda. It is the strongest character in the story. \[00:24:30\] And even though in my own life I sometimes play all four of those characters in the same day, I can be a victim and blame other people, I can be a villain and try to be angry and destroy. I can then overcome that by, in my own journey, but then really I wanna turn around and help other \[00:24:45\] people. So if, if you're showing up online as a victim or a villain, you're not gonna build your business. You need to start showing up a little bit as a hero, talking about your own journey, and then ultimately moving into the guide space, helping other people. So that's where \[00:25:00\] the mistake is being a victim and villain, you move towards hero and guide. So then, what does that look like? So how then do you show up as a guide online? Right. When, you know, let's say, you know, you and I are both marketing \[00:25:15\] consultants. We help people with their messaging. We help leaders. You and I have similar clientele. Yes. So it's like, well, if Kris is saying this, then I can't say this. How do I show up differently than Kris, and also every other marketer that's out there, and every other person that \[00:25:30\] helps entrepreneurs, and every other business coach? It can feel really overwhelming. Right. So one of the ways that I help people show up online and in their messaging is as a guide, is really kind of three different things. and \[00:25:45\] all of this is you have to show up with a point of view. That's the biggest overall arching thing here. AI does not have a point of view. Nobody else in the world has your point of view, so you need to lean into your own point of view. Right. How do you do that? The first \[00:26:00\] is with wisdom. So the way that I talk with a lot of clients is what stories in your life do you have a scar from that you transformed past, So the thing is, is that you, you have to show up with your \[00:26:15\] point of view, and the... Why that's so important in this day and age in particular is AI does not have its own point of view. It has to steal it from everybody else. So if you show up to AI without a point of view, you actually sound like everybody else. \[00:26:30\] And also, you are the only person in the world who has your point of view. You do not have mine, I do not have yours, so we have a unique voice that we can bring to the table. So how do we show up with our point of view? The first is \[00:26:45\] lean into... When, when I'm working with clients, a lot of times what I'm pulling out of them is I, I go, "All right. Let's talk about your wisdom." There's a couple different ways to approach wisdom. The first is what stories do you have where you \[00:27:00\] transformed? And often what I'm looking for is where do you have scars? And I don't mean physical, but, like, from your work and growth, because wisdom often is accompanied by a scar. So where in your life did you go through \[00:27:15\] something really hard in business or in life that then you transformed and now you can use that for other people? So, you know, one of the s- kind of the z- one of my famous stories is I was in a Missy Elliott music video. \[00:27:30\] Nobody else in the world that I know of... Well, actually, I know this fact. Nobody else was in a music video with Missy Elliott where my character's name was called Fat Michael Jackson. Nobody else in the world that happened to, right? So I can tell that \[00:27:45\] story and show up with my unique voice because it's a... The whole story, I won't get into it now, but it really, you can listen to my podcast to hear it all. But **Kris:** \[00:27:53\] it- I, I love this story ... you know, it- It's such a good story. Okay, but keep going ... **J.J.:** \[00:27:57\] it was a, it was a story where at one point I played the \[00:28:00\] victim. At one point I started, I was like, "I'm gonna burn this place down." I became a villain, then I kind of became the hero and ultimately the guide. And so I use that in my talk, but that's my story. That comes with a scar of some, a little bit of embarrassment of how I acted, and it's also \[00:28:15\] nobody else has it. So that is wisdom I can bring to the table that nobody else can bring. So even if we're, you and I are making the same point about becoming a guide, you don't have my point of view on that, so I can bring that. So where are the stories that have wisdom \[00:28:30\] that you overcame something? And then the second piece that I often will bring to this, and this is based on my academic world, is what I call layers. So in academia, you, I mentioned you have to bring something \[00:28:45\] unique and original to the table that you're studying. So if I come to my academic studies and I say, "I want to study story," that's one layer, but everybody's written about stories. So then I say, "I wanna study comedy in story." Now I've \[00:29:00\] added another layer. Then I say, "I wanna study, comedy in fiction in story." Now it's another layer. But at that point, even in the academic world, because everybody's written about everything, there is no differentiation there. I have to keep \[00:29:15\] going. And so I have to find my layers that actually create my unique area of expertise. in the academic world, you have to go about 10 layers deep. But, you know, let's say in, in a \[00:29:30\] business space, a leader is wanting to kind of influence people on culture. Let's say they wanna do culture. Well, part of what they love maybe might be Brene Brown and her work on vulnerability, but I can't talk about vulnerability in the workplace because that's really Brene \[00:29:45\] Brown. Or Simon Sinek talks about finding your why and how that can create culture. I can't talk about that. That belongs to Simon Sinek. But what if I could find a way to talk about how we can use vulnerability to \[00:30:00\] find our why that allows us to belong? Now there's three layers that now that's my unique perspective, and I can draw from Brene Brown, and I can draw from Simon Sinek, but my unique voice, my wisdom comes from the \[00:30:15\] layering of those ideas. So I'm then look, 'cause if I'm talking, like somebody comes to me and go, "I wanna write a book on leadership," great. What's your unique voice in the leadership space? Let's start with wisdom. Where are your unique stories that you learned \[00:30:30\] from? Because nobody else has those. And then second, where's your layers? Where can we put some things together that actually form your niche in this space? So that's kind of step one in how to show up as a guide. Then the second one really is the story \[00:30:45\] brand framework of become the guide. so your voice needs to have empathy, so you need to understand what everybody is going through that you're trying to serve, and you need authority. You actually need some experience, education. That can also come from the layers or \[00:31:00\] wisdom, but there's gotta be something that you can bring to the table that says, "I'm not selling this out of the back of a van," right? And typically in our world, what that means is you have the ability to solve people's problems or you have solved problems before \[00:31:15\] So that's really it. That's how you show up. Empathy for your customer's problem, and then authority to solve it. Some proof, little bit of proof. This is not making you the hero of the story, 'cause the only proof that you're showing is the proof that you can help somebody else with a problem. \[00:31:30\] So wisdom, show up as a guide, and then the last piece for me that really brings in your unique voice and point of view is something that I've been studying a lot of lately, which is joy. That I really believe that \[00:31:45\] leaders and entrepreneurs, we need to be people who practice joy. I think in the, in its most basic level, it separates us from robots. it, it makes us \[00:32:00\] human and builds connection. But the research around it to me is actually really, really fascinating. So often I think we've thought of joy, I have thought of joy as the reward for hard work. Like, you know, even in the classroom, it'd \[00:32:15\] be like, "All right, everybody settle down. Quit talking, quit laughing. We gotta get back to work." Or, you know, it's like, "Hey, you can, you can socialize and build relationship at lunch after you've worked really hard all morning," right? Or, "We're gonna throw a party \[00:32:30\] at the end of whatever." That's often when joy shows up in the workplace. But what the research actually shows is that- People who experience micro moments of joy throughout the day are actually more creative, \[00:32:45\] they're better problem solvers, they stay longer in the workplace, they accomplish more, they actually are harder workers and get more done, they're better team players. And all of that contributes to \[00:33:00\] literally the bottom line in a business. And it's the same like if you, let's say you own a boutique that people come in and buy jewelry from. You will actually have a greater return on your investments if you invest in \[00:33:15\] joy along with everything else, because people make a stronger connection, they will be more loyal. There's all of these different things that happen with joy. And what we're not talking about here when you're talking about creating micro moments of joy is not, like, just laugh all day or \[00:33:30\] just be happy. There's research around how people can experience m- joy throughout the day, and that w- there's a few different things that were surprising to me. Some of the obvious is, like, connection with somebody else, laughter, but also \[00:33:45\] whimsy. workflow, so people can actually experience joy when they're uninterrupted for a few hours and can put their head down. There's joy associated with that. Obviously, experiencing nature, surprise, creativity, doing \[00:34:00\] something that is not in your normal skill set. So there's all these very specific things that I think entrepreneurs who are leading teams can bring in. But also when you show up that way, like, so if I can do that with my team, they're gonna \[00:34:15\] be more creative and get more done, and there's more connection. But if I show up with that voice online, if I'm bringing a little bit of whimsy, if I'm bringing a little bit of beauty, like, you know, "Oh my gosh, look at this sunset. look at this cool food that I got." Like, people think that \[00:34:30\] that's, you know, "Oh, I'm not gonna watch somebody else eat something new, a new food." Well, actually, that micro moment of joy, the reason why s- people showing their food, what they're eating online is, is effective in the algorithm is because how that actually shows up in my \[00:34:45\] brain is it's something new, it's whimsical often- Right it is unique. And so when I show up with those things online, I actually build stronger connection with my audience, and I come across as more human, which the research right now is showing the more people view \[00:35:00\] you as human, the more trust they have in your brand. If you are using AI more and more, people are becoming more and more savvy to the AI language, and there's evidence right now that when people think, even if they think that you're using AI, \[00:35:15\] trust diminishes exponentially So when you're using AI, I go, "Fine, use AI, but show up with your point of view." Bring your wisdom that nobody else has, your layers and your stories. Show up as a guide with human empathy and authority, \[00:35:30\] and then bring that joy. And when you can do that, now we are showing up with a clear message, a clear point of view. Yes, we can talk about our products and services, and there needs to be some clarity there, 100%. I'm not... I don't wanna discount that. Right. \[00:35:45\] But if we don't show up as humans first, we're going to lose in this new era where AI can beat us in everything else **Kris:** \[00:35:53\] Oh my gosh. Whoa. I wanna, I wanna pause, rewind, listen to that- ... multiple times \[00:36:00\] over and over. That is so beautiful and powerful. And the joy piece I think is so essential, and it's so easy to discount or forget or not to be... Your, your words were \[00:36:15\] practice joy, which could also mean be intentional about weaving joy into your life. Like, really be proactive about **J.J.:** \[00:36:24\] it. I think we have to. It, it- Yeah ... for a lot of people right now, it doesn't feel like we should be joyful. Yeah. Like, it's- \[00:36:30\] Yeah ... the world is kind of crazy, and we all know that. Like, that's, that's the reality. And with the way that we're, like, stuck in our phones and disconnected from people, and then wars and everything else, doesn't even matter what political side of the aisle you're on. Yeah. Everything feels crazy, and it \[00:36:45\] feels almost actually, inappropriate to feel joy. But I actually believe that joy is a form of revolution, and when we can show up to something that feels likeJoy is audacious. \[00:37:00\] Do you have the audacity to show up with joy in this kind of world? Screw you. But yet, so it feels dangerous to show up with joy. It feels dangerous to jo- show up in that space, and almost irresponsible. But \[00:37:15\] actually, I really believe it's what the world needs. And beyond that, that's just being a good human side of things. But beyond that, the research actually shows when you intentionally, 'cause I think there are times I have to practice joy. \[00:37:30\] In the same way I don't feel like working out, I don't feel like eating the right foods most of the time, I don't, sometimes don't feel like showing up with a joyful attitude. But, and it, I don't want people to be fake or fake joy, but we can find those things. Like what I said, there's other \[00:37:45\] things beyond just being happy or laughing. There's can you look outside at a tree and appreciate it? Can you go for a walk and experience movement in nature? Can you find a way to surprise a partner or a spouse in your life or a child \[00:38:00\] or coworker? You get that joy. They get that joy. Try a new restaurant. When you experience something unique and new, that brings a little joy. And when you then learn to share that with others, it actually even becomes more exponentially joyful for you. There's other research \[00:38:15\] around that that we could have a whole podcast about as well. Yeah. That, like, if I go to a restaurant and h- experience joy, then the next time if I try to go back and have that same experience, my joy is actually measurably diminished. If I bring you to that \[00:38:30\] restaurant- And we have the exact same food I had the first time, my joy is actually doubled because I have my own joyful experience, but now I experience the joy of, like, being a part of you experience joy. Oh, I love that. So when we go to our favorite restaurant, we go sometimes, Jamie \[00:38:45\] and I, just by ourselves for a date night. But more often than not, we're inviting somebody new, and that's actually why it's our favorite restaurant, is because we get to experience it with so many different people. Mm-hmm. So again, this is all about the showing up and how do you show up with this \[00:39:00\] clear message, with a human message, with a lead- as a leader with a good voice. Well, the joy is for you, but it actually, when you help other people experience, you not only feel better about life, but they feel better about life, which raises trust, which \[00:39:15\] raises connection, which ultimately can result in more business. Doesn't always have to be one for one. You and I, like, are probably not going to hire each other to do work. We might. I've, I think I have hired you for work, come back to that . But, like, \[00:39:30\] you and I might not, we may not be clients for each other, but when we show up for j- with joy for each other, we actually help each other be better in the market, and then there might be referrals or there might be other projects down the line. Right. So there's so many good results that can happen from this. \[00:39:45\] **Kris:** \[00:39:45\] Oh, my gosh. It's so true. And I really feel like the clients that I work with typically are consultants, coaches, they're service providers. They're, they're kinda boots on the ground, helping their clients overcome \[00:40:00\] problems. And if I can show up with more joy, and then it's contagious, they feel a little bit more joy, and then it's, it truly is that ripple effect when you drop drop a rock into a \[00:40:15\] pond, energetically. And, and what a cool way to move through life, just intentionally-... making the world better and infusing joy into everything you do. And,what a creative problem to solve, especially \[00:40:30\] w- because they're micro moments of joy. It could just be cuddling with your dog for three minutes in the morning before you get out of bed. Yeah. I love it. So simple. So simple. Okay. So before we wrap up \[00:40:45\] today,I wanna hear about a story of a client that you worked with that came to you thinking they did not have a unique point of view. Mm. And you helped them find it. Like, how did you go about it? You've kind of walked us through it, but \[00:41:00\] I'm curious what happened for them before and after transformation? **J.J.:** \[00:41:05\] Yeah, so a lot of what I'm working on with clients, and I, I go through all of the stuff we talked about, but I'm really trying to find something, essentially, like, what can \[00:41:15\] we sell to people? Like, so there's memoirs and things like that that are really about transformation and different sto- That's different than somebody who shows up and says, I want to go in and help companies do this, but I don't know how to tell them what I can \[00:41:30\] do and make it sound valuable." So recently, I met somebody. I was doing some work in London, and I met somebody there, and then he hired me and flew over here. And he, he came to Nashville, and we spent two days together. \[00:41:45\] And His whole thing is he works with companies. His company won award for best places to work in the UK, and so he goes in and wants to help companies basically with their... his name's Matt Turner, so if you're in the UK, you can hire Matt Turner. But he goes in and \[00:42:00\] actually works with companies to help them develop cultures where people wanna stay, and they get more out of their people, and they succeed. I mean, the, the company that he was at every time they have somebody apply, hundreds of people apply, like, for that one position. So he came, and he just literally \[00:42:15\] said, like, "I've done this for 20 years." He sold his company, and now he's going in and consulting. "I've done this for 20 years," and he's like, "It just... When people ask me what makes a good culture, I don't know." And so where we started, and then he's also said, \[00:42:30\] "I feel like everybody says what I say." Like, that's really what he came to me with those two things, is like, I don't know what to say, and I, I don't know why people would pay me money, and I feel like I'm just saying what everybody else would say." And then he told me this very incredible story about \[00:42:45\] where, there was a moment... I just had him start telling me wisdom and stories, right? And so one of the stories was about this 18-year-old kid who, when they started working for him, he was sitting down, and they were in a meeting with an outside consultant who came \[00:43:00\] in. And this kid was 18 years old, just starting there, and they, he loved him, but, like, new. And the outside consultant was talking about, like, his wife and stuff like this, and he said to the 18-year-old, "So wait, are you straight or gay?" To the 18-year-old \[00:43:15\] kid. And the kid said, "I'm gay." And he had never told anybody that before. And so he was put in a position of being outed in this moment. Well, the way that Matt then ended up handling that, of \[00:43:30\] going to that consultant and said, "Hey, by the way, you're not allowed to ever say that again, and here's why," being very clear with that, but then going to the kid and making him feel very safe and basically going, "I need you to know that shouldn't have happened. I'm sorry that it happened in that way, \[00:43:45\] and also if anybody ever makes you feel that way, I, I will walk them to the door." And he was just telling it like he wasn't even telling it as part of it, and I was like, "Matt, do you understand the safety and the environment that you created there, that you allowed somebody to belong in your workplace?" \[00:44:00\] And he was like, "Yeah, but that's just what I did." And I was like, "Matt, no, no, no. Let's, like, now take that and use that wisdom that nobody else has that story. It also, there's some truth that you learned out of that that we can share with other people about creating culture that's safe and where \[00:44:15\] people belong. And now let's actually formalize that in a way that now becomes a point of what you sell." And sohe didn't think he had anything. He tells one story, and now it becomes a foundation for one of the pieces of his framework. So it's \[00:44:30\] didn't start with I have a framework. It started with I have a voice, I have a point of view, and I have a story and wisdom. And then from there, we built out a framework that now has, like, three things that he goes in and helps companies with very specifically. We \[00:44:45\] have stories aligned with all three of those, and then we actually have activities and specific steps people can take to achieve those, all based on his wisdom and his experience and point of view. But he came in with s- stories, and We have a book now \[00:45:00\] that is being proposed and then workshops based on it **Kris:** \[00:45:02\] Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And the strategic byproduct of that is that now he has very tangible offerings that don't sound like everybody's offerings, because they're \[00:45:15\] not broad and vague. They're very specific, and so he can truly deliver that, and people can truly understand it very easily and be like, "Yeah, that's what I want." **J.J.:** \[00:45:26\] And I would say the actual, even the, just if \[00:45:30\] I'm... We- we're still working on it. This happened, like, two weeks ago, so this is really fresh in my mind. But, like, we're still working on what the words are in his framework, because the words actually are a little generic, and I'm actually okay with that. Because they might sound like \[00:45:45\] things other people say. That's okay. There is sometimes truth, right? Like with StoryBrand, if we say you need a clear and compelling message, it's not like nobody in the world has never said those words before. Yes, a lot of \[00:46:00\] people say you need a com- clear and compelling message or a clear and compelling story. Okay. But then the way we show up to help people do that is different. So a lot of people think, "Oh, I need this You know, they look at somebody like Nike, and they're like, "Well, Nike has 'Just do it.' I want my 'Just do \[00:46:15\] it.'" And I'm like, "We might find that. We might not." It actually still doesn't diminish the power of your own brand and your own, products. Because that's, they're spent billions to get that to be known. Right. We don't have billions, so \[00:46:30\] we're not gonna be able to do that in that way. But if you showed up and said, you know, even in leadership, if somebody was like, "Well, in leadership you need to be authentic, you need to be bold, and you need to be a problem-solver." Great. That's fine. We can use \[00:46:45\] those three, even if other people have said those before. However, we need to find, again, your unique point of view. What are your layers to those that other people don't have? What is your experience and wisdom that you bring, your perspective that you bring to those three things \[00:47:00\] that gives you actually value? Why are people gonna pay you versus pay somebody else? Right. It's only because of your point of view and your wisdom and your experience. So you can say the three generic words, you know, I don't even remember what they were anymore, but authentic, bold, and \[00:47:15\] problem-solver. Great. That might sound like everybody else, but it won't be when you actually bring your, humanness to the table. **Kris:** \[00:47:21\] Totally. this reminds me of, I've done in my, in my background, I've done a fair amount of art, painting, drawing. That's \[00:47:30\] alwaysbeen my fun hobby. And in the classes that I've taken, often they'll put up a painting that is very well-known, like Van Gogh or, you know, who knows? Probably not Van Gogh, but like some other ones. A \[00:47:45\] vase and an apple. And, and as hard as I try, I can't recreate that original. It's like your voice and your point of view are inherent, and Even if \[00:48:00\] you tried not to have it, it's in there, and it really wants to come out. **J.J.:** \[00:48:04\] And it's beautiful. That's the thing, is like- Yes V- let Van Gogh be Van Gogh. Great. Right. But, like, we don't need another Van Gogh. We need another Kris. And so what w- \[00:48:15\] your... That's the even thing more about it, is I think one of the things, this is where Badass Softie really has come in for me in a lot of ways, is because I think a lot of times earlier in my career, and even sometimes mid and late in my career, I felt like I needed to sound \[00:48:30\] and be like everybody else. If I'm gonna show up in a room with say like Jeff Bezos or, Elon Musk, who are put up there as like these business tycoons who are billionaires and all this stuff, if I'm most honest, I don't wanna be like them. I don't actually like the \[00:48:45\] way that they lead. I can learn a ton from them. Like, I have learned a ton from their styles and from their boldness and all these different things, but I actually don't wanna be like them. And if I try to show up and be a leader like them, and try to build a business like them, \[00:49:00\] I'm going to be a poor facsimile. It's not gonna look good, and I also am gonna be miserable in the process. My superpower is leaning into my own voice, and that's where the beauty arises. And am I gonna connect to the same people maybe that Jeff \[00:49:15\] Bezos and Elon Musk do? No. But the honest truth is I don't want to. I don't actually wanna be in those rooms, so why am I trying to pretend to be like them? Mm. So be my own voice and lean into my own voice, and that's where my superpower is, and then that's also where I will find \[00:49:30\] my room, the rooms I want to be in, the people I want to work with. Because if I'm modeling after them, I'm gonna find people that are like them, and I don't wanna be like them. So stop it. **Kris:** \[00:49:42\] if someone's listening today and is really \[00:49:45\] resonating with what you're talking about, and they're like, "Okay, what are my layers? What is my wisdom?" What's a question they can ask themself? Like, what did you ask your client to pull out those stories that he shared with you? **J.J.:** \[00:49:59\] \[00:50:00\] Yeah. So the, the first thing is always like, what are the stories you always go to? Like, when it comes to business. Those, start there. Because you've used them before, you know they work. But what you have to kind of form them into is this idea of what, where was the moment where the scar happened, like \[00:50:15\] the wound happened, and how did the healing begin, right? And so essentially that feels very dramatic and, but it can be as small as, you know, the very first time as a leader, the very first time I gave an employee review, um, I thought I was \[00:50:30\] super clear. I walked out of there being super proud of myself, and the person quit the next day. My ego was crushed, right? So like there's just... It doesn't have to be this like I was devastated and over- You know, it can be like, "Wow, that was bad," you know? Or I remember the first time I \[00:50:45\] organized an event and nobody showed up. You know, or only five people showed up. We had a great time, but only five people showed up. Well, that's a moment where a wound kind of happened in you, and then you began the process of healing that wound and learning how to protect yourself from future wounds.\[00:51:00\] So really it's like what are those stories you go to often that get a good response and make good connections? Start there, and make sure that you're finding those moments of where something bad happened and here's how I grew. And then you can kind of from there expand out on other \[00:51:15\] things. Where are moments that I learned something? 'Cause even my Missy Elliott story, it used to just be a really funny story that I told about when I was in this music video and they called me Fat Michael Jackson. And it killed at parties, and it was just like a \[00:51:30\] fun anecdote kind of thing. When I actually thought back on it through a new lens, I discovered what I did learn, but I had to think what did I learn from that story? Not, "Isn't that a funny story that I was in Missy Elliott?" I had to go, what did I learn from that and how have I changed \[00:51:45\] because of it? That's when that story begins to matter. And so that's where I start is like, what are the stories that have always worked for you or that always come to mind? How do we put those in a framework that allows you to see what you learned from it? And we have to be honest. You \[00:52:00\] can't make it up. It has to be real or people will s- smell that. And then we start building from there. And then same kind of thing, I will say, like, often it'll be like, "All right, so I wanna speak on authenticity in leadership." And I will go, "Okay, but \[00:52:15\] what's your unique take on that?" Or, "What does everybody else get wrong?" That's often how I will do it is what does everybody else get wrong about authenticity in leadership? Because then you can say, "Well, everybody thinks authenticity is this, but it's really this." Ah, there we go. Now we have your point of \[00:52:30\] view, and we have an angle. Now we look for a story that can back that up that illustrates it to make it more interesting and bring more authority into that space, and then we have to quantify it in a way that actually can sell. **Kris:** \[00:52:43\] you are brilliant. \[00:52:45\] You are... Wow. Okay, mic drop moment. Dr. JJ, where can we find you online? **J.J.:** \[00:52:52\] Well, if you're interested in more discussions like this, a lot of them you can listen to me at Badass Softie, you... podcast wherever you listen to \[00:53:00\] podcasts. And then, drjjpeterson.com. So D-R-J-J peterson.com is my website where people reach out to me if they're interested in getting some help. I work with businesses like you, and then I also, one of the areas I'm kind of in right now is helping \[00:53:15\] kind of leaders take their thought leadership and turn it into frameworks, books, keynotes, and like courses, things, products they can sell. **Kris:** \[00:53:24\] Mm, beautiful. Beautiful work. Well, thank you for being here. It's been really, really fun. **J.J.:** \[00:53:29\] Oh, thanks \[00:53:30\] for having me. **Kris:** \[00:53:31\] Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all \[00:53:45\] for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time The most productive people I know all have one thing in common. **After this conversation, I started looking at my own calendar differently.** In this week's episode of *From Click to Client*, I sat down with Debbie Heiser, founder of The Lit Up Life, to discuss why managing your energy, rather than your time, is the shift that most people miss. Debbie has spent years helping entrepreneurs **overcome burnout, subconscious beliefs, and the patterns that quietly keep them stuck.** This conversation is packed with practical ideas you can start using right away, including: If you've been doing all the right things but still feel like you're spinning your wheels, you'll love this one. \[00:00:00\] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story. **Kris:** Debbie Heiser, thank you so much for being here today. I am delighted to have you on the show, and I know everybody listening is gonna walk away with some really good nuggets that are gonna make their life and business better. So you have a business called Lit Up Life. Tell us more about the business, your background. W- what do you help your clients do? **Debbie:** Okay, so I'm gonna start a little farther back and tell you a little bit about where I started. I am an education major by trade. I started a pilot program in the State of Missouri, in the juvenile detention centers, and, think the movie Freedom Writers. It's a little bit older movie, but think that, \[00:01:00\] and that was kind of what I did is, which help them change perspective. Did that for a year, and then I started with Sprint, and I sold Yellow Pages. So I'm aging myself just a little bit. Some of your listeners may not know what Yellow Pages are. but the reason I bring that up is I had a manager who told me, "You're not selling Yellow Pages. You're really helping people with their hopes, wishes, and dreams, because if you can bring them more clients, then they're making more money. They're able to do the things that they want to do and have financial freedom." Well, fast-forward, and that's what I'm doing today. It's just not in selling Yellow Pages, right? It's in coaching. So I spent 20-plus years in corporate America. I was an executive then at Sprint publishing and advertising. It was a subsidiary of Sprint. Then I, moved over, because Yellow Pages obviously went into a decline, I moved over to Citibank, which is a, a huge, you know, worldwide international company. I was five down from the CEO. Really loved, the people I worked with. I'm not a big huge \[00:02:00\] fan of credit cards and student loans, which was the main area I was in. I was in retail banking as well. And so then when they decided to move a lot of their operations to Tucson, they said I could move to Tucson, but they didn't need someone at my level sitting in Kansas City, and I said, "No, thanks. I don't like hot weather." So I moved to North Idaho, and I became the CFO of a small business, which really I think was some divine intervention too and how the universe works, because I had always wanted to own a business and start a business. And when I moved here in 2014, that's when I started the business, and it was actually called Three Vines Consulting and Development, Leadership Development. And so many people thought I was a consultant for wineries. Now, don't get me wrong, I love a good glass of wine. But that is not what I do. so I decided to make a name change, and I changed it to The Lit Up Life. And partially because of my life experience, I had this realization growing up in the Midwest, there's nothing wrong with the Midwest, but there is a mentality in different parts of the \[00:03:00\] country. And in that part of the country, what you did was you went to high school, you graduated, you went to college or went into the military. You then found a really good corporate job, and you worked nine... Well, it's not 8:00 to 5:00, I'm sorry. But 8:00 to 5:00, Monday through Friday. You got married, you had children. **Debbie:** was a great life, but I wanted more. And so I realized that I wasn't leading a lit up life, I was leading a life based on what I thought I should do. So I just feel like life is too short to not be lit up and not be happy about it. Now, are there days that I do work or do things that I don't love to do? Absolutely. But those are very few and far between, and it really... I think life is too short not to be fueled with passion, right? Yeah. **Kris:** 100%. Yeah. So when you started the consulting business, how has that evolved, other than you changed the name of it? After doing that work and all the things that we learn when we start to run our own \[00:04:00\] business, how has that business evolved over the years? **Debbie:** Yeah. Thank you for asking, Kris. When I first started out, it was a side gig. It was a hobby. I did that for, oh gosh, almost, well, about seven or eight years I did that as a side gig in my, and my CFO job. And in 2021, my boss, who she and I were good friends, through unfortunate circumstances, her mother was the primary owner. She was killed in an airplane accident 14 days after I... Or not 14 days, but about two and a half months after I moved to Idaho. So we had been through a lot of things. I was used to everything being an 800 number. So I really learned a lot about running a small business, and it wasn't small. We had 60 employees in, multiple different states. But- I ended up doing all of the things that I had never done before, which again, the way the universe works, right, prepped me to do that. So when I stepped fully in, I was making about 38K, and then in 18 months I was at a quarter of a million and haven't looked back. And so \[00:05:00\] I use that as one measure because it shows that when you commit, and you're doing what you love, and you're doing those things, it works, right? Like, the things happen. So what I've seen evolve, and I will tell you I'm on a little bit of a rant right now about this, is I really feel like we in the coaching industry did a disservice to people in the past where... And I think the state of the world today is creating this almost lack of trust, but where you're having to build trust and really show that you can give results. Where it used to be, "Oh, you can make a million dollars in one month." Okay. Well, you can, but there's a cost opportunity or an opportunity cost to that, and usually that's not a holistic look at your whole life. And, you know, so I've seen that evolve. I've always come from that place of we wanna look at the whole picture, but I unwind a l- I've got a lot of people that have been in coaching, they're nervous about having a coach because they've had experiences where they thought they would get to a certain point... I was just having this conversation actually with my marketing person \[00:06:00\] yesterday, that w- we say, yeah, from a logistics and the logic perspective you can get there, but until... Like, part of your message is about telling stories. Until we get to the deep part of the stories that are running our lives, w- it's hard to change. And we're so... I mean, I'm a business coach and I have a coach. I have two or three coaches. Because we get so close to our, our areas that we don't even realize. And I giggle because people will say to me, "Oh, good. I've taken care of that." I'm like, "You know. Sorry." It's an onion. It just keeps showing up. It's the onion. Right. Right? Every time you level up it shows up a little differently, which is why it gets sneaky. **Debbie:** And so I've seen that evolution happen, where now I'm seeing the coaches that would promise all sorts of things are fading away. Right. And you're seeing the coaches that do make a real difference that, you know, work with people that want to transform, and not just transform, but they realize transformation includes \[00:07:00\] change. I've seen a lot of people where they want the transformation- Mm ... but they don't want the change and some of the work that goes along with it. **Kris:** Right. And I think half the battle, to your point, is just a lot of that stuff is so close to us, it's happening unconsciously. We're not even- aware. We're not even aware of those stories or those beliefs. And so how do you become aware of kind of the default network that's running your life, essentially? Yeah, where do you begin with that? Like, how would we identify what's keeping me from my... The freedom that I wanna experience, whether it's time freedom or any other- **Debbie:** Yeah. First of all, I mean, it's so simple that it's almost, like, laughable, right? But I want to say, too, that it's not simple in the fact that it is completely subconscious. And because we think it's in our conscious brain, we then beat ourselves up because we should have known something. And I say if you're should-ing on yourself, that's your critical parent. That, like, get rid of that because what \[00:08:00\] happens is it lowers your vibration, and then we find evidence to support our beliefs. Right? So the subconscious is what creates our beliefs and our identity, so if we don't unwind that identity... So then the simplistic piece of this, Kris, is honestly you just have to become aware, because once you're aware, you can't go back. Now, you can. You can stick your head in the sand, and I've seen people do that, but ultimately it all boils down to fear, and fear is nothing more than false evidence appearing real. So we build evidence, and the way... I geek out on neuroscience. Mm. I have some friends that you know, too, that geek out on neuroscience- Mm-hmm ... and we geek out together on it. But what happens is the brain is always looking to predict and protect. So if you had anything happen to you in your past that was scary, that potentially put you on edge, you're constantly scanning, right? Mm. So your nervous system is on hyperdrive a lot, and many of us are on hyperdrive. And so then what \[00:09:00\] happens is we don't trust the hits that we get from the universe. **Debbie:** And so the biggest piece of that is becoming aware, and then honestly, working with someone. It doesn't even have to be a coach. It could be a trusted counselor. It could be... But have somebody in your life that tells you the truth- **Debbie:** that says, "Wait a minute. Is that really true?" Like, let's talk through that. **Kris:** C- can you help me understand the difference between identifying a thought- Mm-hmm ... identifying a belief, and identifying an identity? Like, tell me how they're different, how they're related. **Debbie:** Yeah, absolutely. Um, so if you imagine a circle as your brain, right? And the top half, if you just put a line in the middle of that, the top half is your conscious brain. So your conscious brain can accept messages, it can deflect and say, "Nope. Okay, Debbie, you said this, but I don't necessarily agree with you," and then it can create and innovate. Now, this is a very simplistic version of neuroscience- Yeah ... right? So keep that in mind. But when you look at the subconscious brain, the subconscious brain \[00:10:00\] cannot deflect messages. So, huh, I wonder why I couldn't fall asleep at night when I was watching The Walking Dead, right, in bed, right? Because your subconscious brain is taking in all of the things that you've done throughout your day, all of the things that you've done in your history, and trying to make sense of it based on our filters. Mm. So a thought, and it's not really cut and dry either, which is what makes this kind of an interesting piece- Nuance The thoughts that come to us are usually given to us by something, right? Because it's a message that comes into our brain. If you think about, and if you have not been around a baby, please go hang out with some babies, just like puppies, right? Because they are all emotion. They are... They're happy one minute, and then they're crying because their diaper's wet and they're uncomfortable. Like, they don't, they don't have filters. You can start to see the filters. I have a five-year-old grandson, and I'm seeing the filters of, okay, am I gonna fit into the tribe if I'm not funny? Oh, I need \[00:11:00\] to be humor- right? So we learn, we pick up these things. So thoughts become words, right? And actions. So the thoughts come into the subconscious brain. We start to create beliefs around those based on we see evidence over and over again, and partially because if I have a thought come in from, like, a loved one, particularly a parent, our parents do w- the best they can, but we might have a loyalty pact with them. Like, as an example, my mom passed away of breast cancer at the age of 58. She swore it was the stress of owning her own business, and non-bioidentical hormones. So guess who had a hard time? I told you I started my business in 2014. I didn't step in full time until 2021, right? Because I had this subconscious belief from a message I got from her that if I owned my own business, I was gonna die. So that's the subconscious belief, and that became a part of my identity. So I can't step in and own a f- \[00:12:00\] full-time business. Right? Because my identity is someone that doesn't, because I don't wanna die- Right ... of breast cancer. **Kris:** And so that would be, if you were not aware of that, you might sabotage your own business because- Absolutely on a deep level, you're like, "I don't wanna die." So- **Debbie:** and I did. Okay. And I did, right? Because then what happens too, I call those double binds. Then what happens is I had a loyalty pact with her, because I don't wanna make her wrong, right? I loved her, and I, it, like, you almost saint-ize people when they first pass too, right? So, I don't wanna make her wrong, so if I do have a business that's super successful and I'm in it full time and I don't die of breast cancer, then I'm making her wrong. Mm. Now, that's an untruth, but that's how our brain works. **Debbie:** So the thoughts come in, they turn into beliefs that create our identity. And I will tell you, Kris, it took a coach helping me, and I'm not saying that because I am a coach, but to help me unwind that, right? I mean, I have a lot of really smart friends that are \[00:13:00\] counselors, a lot of really smart friends that do a ton of different things, but it took someone really objective and not tied to that to see the untruth of that. **Kris:** And then what did you do? D- is, is it as simple as, "Oh, that might not be true for me"? Yeah. Is it **Debbie:** that simple? It kind of is. It, now, I say that cheek and tongue because we make everything complex. I don't know if you've read the book Letting Go by David Hawkins, but he says, "I don't even need to write the book if people just listen to me and let s- stuff go." Right? Like, it is that simple to just make the decision in your head. So it took some coaching from my coach to say, "Does this resonate with you?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And for her to say, "That's not true. Like, what is the truth about that? Are you gonna die of breast cancer? Well, we don't know. We don't know our future. We can only be present. Are you going to make your mom wrong if you're successful? No, she wants me to be successful." right? So it \[00:14:00\] just took changing, and sometimes I'll take my glasses off and put them back on to say, "I need a shift in perspective." So it's just- Yeah ... that shift in perspective, but then also I do think it's important to have someone in your corner that believes in you more than you do. Because then I could borrow some of that belief from her to say, "Just keep reminding me," 'cause your brain, it's like water buffalo going to a watering hole, right? Like, if you think about the neuroscience and the neuroplasticity and all of those pathways, right? So the water buffalo keeps going to the same watering hole the same way, so they've built a big groove. So the same thing happens in our brain. Well, then one day one water buffalo says, "I'm gonna go around and try this way," but there's no path. He does that or she does that a couple of times, and then it's like, "Whoa, I gotta get back to the groove." Our brains do the same thing Mm ... but then they go back to that, and it's that constant space repetition then of creating that new neural pathway so that we don't go back to the groove \[00:15:00\] one because it feels comfortable. **Kris:** And so when you create a new thought or a new belief or even- Yeah ... a new identity, how do you really get the new groove made? Do you write it down? I'm, it, this is different than affirmations, right? Yeah. This is really just, do you just practice? I'm a big fan of Brooke Castillo. I love her model for changing your thoughts, and, again, is it as simple as writing down a new thought and then just practicing that until you really believe it and, and internalize it? **Debbie:** Yes, and Kris, I will say an added step to that that I do with clients at both retreats and in person, or like if I'm working with somebody personally, is we go through some meditations where I have people envision... Because first of all, when we say the future, we don't really know what the future's gonna hold for us, and that we already are that person. So what I try to do, because what I see missing with affirmations, they're good with the brain, but what \[00:16:00\] happens is we don't embody it, so we don't know what it feels like. Mm. So I walk through some meditations with people about being on a big screen, and you go be that person that you want to be, doing the things that you want to do, so the being part and the doing part. And I have people really feel that in your body, 'cause your body knows better than your brain. **Kris:** And so then once they embody that, we actually spend some time in that, and I have them really feel into that. And when I say feel, I mean where do you feel it in your body, not emotion. Emotion is how we make sense of feelings. **Debbie:** And so I really try to focus on that because when I start to doubt or I start to wanna go back to that same path to the watering hole, my body knows what it feels like to be and do what it is that I'm trying to achieve. Now, why that's important is we have to maintain... If we do nothing else, it's maintaining the vibration of that woman. Right? Somebody actually just asked me today, \[00:17:00\] "Hey, so I know you're open to dating now. What are you looking for?" And I said, "You know, I used to have a list of like physical attributes. I used to have a list of personalities. That list is very short now, just a couple things. But ultimately, it's not about the list. It's about who do I wanna be in a relationship. How do I wanna show up? Because I have to be in that vibration to attract the person that's gonna bring that out of me too- That's gonna be a match. Does that make sense? **Debbie:** So I know I just gave you a whole lot, but it's really too about, it is about the affirmations because we, our brain doesn't know the difference between truth and a lie. **Kris:** We filter it, right? So if, if we can then, if we can trick our brains with lies, we can also hack our brains with things that are the truth that we want to happen. But we really have to understand how it feels in our body, and I've s- I've seen... You were talking about evolution of coaching. **Debbie:** I've \[00:18:00\] seen more and more people looking at this, like, somatic experience, and where does it feel in the body? I mean, we've all had that before, where the hair on the back of your neck sticks up and your brain hasn't completely identified what it is yet, but your body knows- **Kris:** Yeah, and, and it's a practice to really acknowledge that, feel it and trust it as well. **Debbie:** Yeah, I think you just summarized what I do. **Debbie:** Because, you know, we were talking a little bit about slowing down to speed up, and I think that's a big piece. Like, when I do any kind of work in person, like if I have a VIP day, we start out with a nature walk, because nature tells us all sorts of things, and it's partially to slow that down so that we're not in that fight or flight mode, which we tend to all be in quite a bit. **Kris:** Yeah. Before we hit record, we talked about, a lot of people who run their own \[00:19:00\] business, are productive people doing well, are operating in fifth gear, and when you're in fifth gear for a long time, it can feel really uncomfortable to downshift. And I know this is really fundamental to the work that you do. So I'd love to hear, like, an actual story of a client that came to you. What were they complaining about? What was not working in their life, and then what did you end up doing to, to change that? **Debbie:** Wow. I'm trying to think of, 'cause there's a lot of really good examples, and the one that keeps dropping to me is a client, who's a real estate agent, and she was in the mastermind and then also a private client of mine, and she and both her husband are now, private clients. And honestly, like, what she complained about most was money, and I have a lot of people that get \[00:20:00\] into that, right? And wh- when we dig around and start to uncover something, we realize that the fear around that is, is there gonna be enough? Are we gonna be able to back away from this business and have enough to survive? Maslow's hierarchy, right? Mm-hmm. So I will tell you, sometimes they're complex because we're human, and there's this web of things to unwind. So we have unwound all sorts of different things. She's a real estate agent, and so I do have permission to share. I'm not gonna share her name, but she's told me I could share her story, and she's done testimonials. And she also realized that part of this money story had to do... Something had happened to her in her life, she wasn't sure what. Now I'm not a counselor, so I send people to counselors. But somewhere in the fall something had happened, and then always in the winter she got into this really clenchy, real estate agents don't make any money in the winter message, right? So I had her come up early, 'cause she was coming to one of my retreats, \[00:21:00\] and we went out to my lake that's right out my door here, and we threw rocks and screamed, "F you." She named what the anger was that she had about it and released it, because physically releasing something helps to do that. Yeah. And then w- I looked at her and I said, "Is it true that real estate agents can't make money in fourth quarter?" She said, "No, it's not, but that's the message that our whole entire industry says." I go, "Okay, so you just became aware of that. You just claimed that is an untruth, so things are gonna shift for you." She actually ended up selling more real estate last... in fourth quarter last year than she did the entire year in 2025, and she's super successful. Right? So that's just one example. There were multiple things that we had to get over, right? Part of the fear, she didn't like to spend money to travel, and she was afraid to travel. Well, we went to Costa Rica as our first trip, and she had to navigate that all by herself, right? Forgot her medicine, we had to navigate. Like, she had to navigate all of \[00:22:00\] these things. And so then she started to believe in herself. So there's all sorts of things- Mm-hmm ... that s- if you can work on those kinda simultaneously, you see a, a much faster leap than if you're just trying to linearly kinda take care of each situation, if that makes sense. **Kris:** Yeah. Oh, what a cool story. Yeah, thank you ... the physicalness of, like, throwing the stone into the lake and yeah, really defining it physically and so you can be like, "Oh, we did that, and I'm walking away from that lake, and that is behind me." Yeah. So **Debbie:** cool. And, you know, s- things that she let go of had to do with family relationships, with, you know, things occurring in her life that had happened in the past with people, leaving their agency and starting their own and becoming compet- like, all of these different things that she just let go of, and it, it opens up space for us to receive. **Kris:** Tell me about a client that you've worked with that came to you overwhelmed. I'm asking for a friend. I'm kidding. they came to you overwhelmed, not enough time, hard to downshift. What... How do you unravel that really, I truly can relate to this. Like, I- Yeah ... I get a lot of shit done. Yeah. I like productivity. And, and it is really hard for me to kind of stop and appreciate the nature around me sometimes. **Debbie:** Yeah. So let me think about a client. Most clients do have a time story of one shape or another. It's time, money, and control, and I hate to say it, but we're never in control, right? And when we can let go of that, that's, like, a huge relief. Yeah. but when it comes to time, and I resonate with this too, time for me was always the thing, and my coach one time said to me, I said, \[00:24:00\] "Well, I wanna wait to do this until after my son gets married, and, you know, we're busy with the wedding stuff." And she looked at me, and she's like, "Do you think so-and-so waits for their kids to get married to do business?" I'm like, "No, you're right. That's just part of my life," right? So part of what happens with time is we have to understand we're not managing time. I help people see we're managing energy. And if you start to think about what gives you energy, and I have people make a list of this. So I'll think of one particular person, that, she was in the medical field, and she literally didn't have a lot of time because the place she worked really, mandated when she could be there, and they had to, like, book out for an entire year, right? It wasn't something that... It was very time committed. Right. So when we started to look at manage- and she wanted to start this coaching business and do coaching and podcasts and everything. So when we started to look \[00:25:00\] at it and understand that, okay, when you look at energy, what sucks your energy from you? What takes away from your energy and drains you, and what gives you energy? It became very apparent that job, and I'm not a firm believer to quit a W-2 job right away, 'cause we have double binds that we want security more than our own business sometimes. Mm-hmm. So she's like, "I need to let go of this job, and I need to unwind my identity from who I am is a part of that job," because we in the Western world do that. And so we went through the practice of unwinding that, really went through the practice also of unwinding messages that she didn't know what she was doing, right? The confidence, the lack of confidence. Then we started to look at what brought her energy- Now, she still loved what she did from the medical field, so she still tapped into that, but now she travels and goes one week a month- to go do these things, \[00:26:00\] right? And sometimes it's once every six weeks or so, and she gets to control the schedule with it. She gets to talk to them about it. She's on call, so she can still do other things that bring her energy in it, and she loves working with the patients. So there's that, right? So we, identifying then what brings you that, and then all of a sudden the door starts to open when you look at, energy and managing energy. Now they own multiple different locations that they Airbnb and that she can now do retreats out of. She's running retreats both locally, domestically, and internationally. She has women following her. She's doing frequency scanner stuff. you know, like, the door has just opened for her, and she's the type of person that has to have a lot of diversity in what she does. And that opened that ability to have all of that diversity in her life, and so now she's making more money than she did in her W-2 job. She has more time to spend with her now teenage kids, going to the things that she never got to do. So to me, \[00:27:00\] that's about the lit up life. Even if she was making less money, she's happier because she's able to be present. So if you can make a list of what brings you energy, what doesn't bring you energy... Now, here I will tell you, I love me some good Bridgerton. I hate entering mileage into QuickBooks, and I will never say I love entering mileage into QuickBooks. But if I can combine watching Bridgerton and entering mileage from my calendar into QuickBooks- That's **Debbie:** I've just stacked something I like, right? That's a hack. **Debbie:** that's a good one. Absolutely. Or I've started taking coffee connections, like if I have local people reach out to me and say, "Hey, let's connect for coffee," I'm like, "What if we went for a walk instead?" **Debbie:** Let's get out into nature. Let me take my dog, get some energy off of him. Mm. And so it's about kind of looking at things a little differently, and once you let go of the time thing... Now, I get it, some people have jobs that there's certain time constraints. But really start looking \[00:28:00\] at the energy piece, because if you can start to slough off the th- 'Cause usually what happens is people have a longer list of what sucks the energy than what they do, what brings them energy. **Debbie:** Or they have desires that they wanna spend more time with their family, and then I ask the question, particularly if it's extended family, "Do you really?" Like, it- Mm ... does that suck your energy? Does it give you energy? Sometimes it's one way, sometimes it's the other. Mm-hmm. But, like, really looking at that starts to change then what you do, which then changes how you manage your time. **Kris:** Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. I, I love- Yeah ... I love the way you- teach these concepts that are- **Kris:** kind of elusive, and now they feel much more tangible. Yeah. I'm curious about things like, I wanna talk about visibility a little bit. Okay. 'Cause I work with a lot of coaches and consultants, and part of getting out there and becoming visible, or part of getting \[00:29:00\] clients is about becoming visible. **Kris:** And, and there's a lot that comes up for people around this. People are kind of in their comfort zone. They're afraid to put themselves out there. They don't wanna be criticized or whatever. Fill in the blank. They're afraid around that, or they feel like they're an imposter. I mean, there's so much going on, and I'll just tell you, like, from my own, my own experience part of having a business, for me, involves reaching more people. So I guest on a lot of podcasts, and I get to meet new people that way. I also obviously have my own podcast, which took a while for me to get to this point. But I feel like I love this work, and when I did my very first podcast, I called my partner and I said, "I was born for this." I love it. I just love it. Like, I get to channel my inner Oprah and- Yeah ... ask questions and have meaningful conversations and \[00:30:00\] meet new people. And yet paired with that ha- is this belief system that I have around visibility, and I've, I've overcome it in many ways, but I also find myself wrestling with it. Like, I, it's not fully resolved. For example, today I had to do a... I'm noticing my language. I had to do a, a solo episode for my podcast, which I prefer the conversations than I do the solo episodes just because- Yeah ... they feel more effortless. The solo episodes I have to plan a little bit more. They involve a little more e- executive function. Yeah. and it's not as fun to just speak into the camera as it is to have a conversation. So I'm like I'm... I don't know. I'm watching myself do these gymnastics around procrastinating, avoiding, pushing it \[00:31:00\] back. Poor Jamie, my assistant, is always, like, putting it in my calendar, "Must have today," 'cause it keeps getting shifted. And so I'm curious, like, I would love your take on that because it's definitely a mixture of things. Yep. On one hand I love it, and I know from a deep place I wanna be doing that, and then I also I'm watching myself have these behaviors that are muddying up things internally, or making it harder than it needs to be. **Debbie:** Yeah. Okay. So Kris, I'm gonna start off somewhere else, and then I'm gonna end up in visibility if you're k- okay with that. **Debbie:** So what would happen for you if you stopped doing solo episodes, and you just had conversations with people that ultimately allowed you to talk about your messaging and their messaging at the same time? Versus just an interview, right? Not just, but like- Right ... interview situations- A more structured ... \[00:32:00\] you try to highlight. **Debbie:** Yeah. But what if you did interviews, and then instead of, since you like to have the conversation and collaborate what says you have to have solo episodes? **Debbie:** Yeah. No, I bring that up, and thank you for being open to that on your podcast- I, I love, I like that **Debbie:** Yeah. Right? And the vulnerability of that, because that's what I mean about managing energy. **Debbie:** Because it was visible, for those of you watching the video, hopefully you saw it too, but like it was visible, and even in your voice, like the tone of your voice changed, where it's like, "Ugh," right? It's just like- Yeah ... ugh, trying to do something that you really dislike. Get rid of it. **Kris:** Right? Absolutely. Tweak it. It doesn't have to be... I don't have to throw it in the garbage, but what would remove all that effort from it? **Debbie:** And to me, it immediately came to me that you... Like, if you're looking at loving to do interviews with people such as me, then also look at how can you \[00:33:00\] have people maybe like you and I, hopping on a podcast where we just riff on each other. **Debbie:** Right? And that way your message is still getting out. Now, I say that because that's that whole thought process around beliefs. Somewhere in there you have a belief that it needs to go that way. I get it. That's how I do mine, too. When I'm not feeling inspired, I'm like, "Guess what? We need to book another guest." Because there are plenty of ways to interact with me, right? **Debbie:** And so it's just now becoming aware of that. Your brain is gonna start thinking of ways to do it differently. So the visibility piece for me in that situation with you isn't so much about visibility, but just maybe even a lack of inspiration sometimes, trying to come up with things to talk about. **Debbie:** Yeah. And so from a visibility perspective, it is simply brain science again, because somewhere in our lives we were taught that it's not okay, children must be silent, right? Like, children need to be seen and not heard. Like, all of these messages that we get that tell us \[00:34:00\] not to be on the forefront. Any time someone's successful, you think about this, my son and I were talking about this the other day, 'cause he's a big Kansas City Chiefs fan. We're from Kansas City originally. So all of a sudden he says to me, he's an eighth grade science teacher, "You know, Mom, it's really funny. When I was in school everybody hated the Patriots, and now they all hate the Chiefs." So part of that visibility is about messaging around being successful. We hear it everywhere. If I'm out there being visible... I mean, I even had a really, like one of my very best friends say to me, "Why do you feel like you have to put everything out on Facebook?" Well, I don't feel like I have to put everything out there. I am strategic about what I share, and sometimes, just this morning I did a video in my bathrobe and said, "Guess what? You're getting me the way you're getting me." And because it's a part of my business, right? And interestingly enough, she kinda came at me about it being a business, but now she's shifting from doing counseling and doing life coaching and being more visible on \[00:35:00\] Facebook, 'cause she's understanding it now, right? Mm-hmm. But even the people closest to us will make comments. Now, ultimately, it's either a fear that they don't want you to be hurt, 'cause they see trolls and all of these things, so I always try to come at it from the place of they're looking out for our best interest. Mm-hmm. But there's also a tinge of jealousy there. Right? So we're, what we're doing on podcasts, what we're doing to be visible, other people have that on their vision board to do. And so I, the visibility, there's so many layers to that, and Kris, I coach a lot on the visibility piece, and I struggle with it. I mean, I tell my story, but I don't go to the depths all the time, and I just came back from a conference and I'm like, "You know what? Screw this. People are gonna start getting me unhinged." I'm not gonna be the corporate bow on the box anymore, because it's just not as relevant. Right. We're all a complete mess.\[00:36:00\] And we can have our shit together at the same time. **Debbie:** Yeah. So the visibility- It's so refreshing ... yeah, thank you. And Kris, the visibility thing is really, that one has multiple different avenues- Mm ... because people are taught different things. But what I just said to you is primarily kind of a lot of what I see come in as like a trend. **Debbie:** And also, just really quickly, Kris, if you think about it, way back when, if you got kicked out of your tribe, you died. So there's also generational things that come into this and DNA kind of things that, you know, if I do something and I'm kicked out of my tribe, similar to me, and I have family members that have lost weight and all of a sudden, "Is she anorexic?" Right? Like, "She doesn't fit in. She's not like all of us that are 30 pounds over what we should be," right? Mm-hmm. So it's interesting that how sometimes that kicks in too, that we're afraid we're gonna get kicked out of the tribe, whether it be friendship tribes- For sure ... whether it be family tribes, whatever that is. **Kris:** Completely. And then- \[00:37:00\] usually people have a situation where they publicly got embarrassed or humiliated or- Yeah ... failed in front of others, and then of course the brain and body is gonna go, "Do not repeat that mistake." but in order to, do the work we're here to be aligned with our own purpose, we do have to do that. So there's just, there's a lot internally, there's a lot of internal work in this whole- Yeah ... entrepreneurial gig. **Debbie:** The, Kris, you have nailed it, because- Yeah ... you know, I say I help entrepreneurs make a lot of money doing what they love to do without sacrificing what's important to them, because people want more money, they want more time, they want more control. But ultimately, what anybody in the coaching industry does is we help unwind all of that. All the internal work, right? We face the shadow. Mm. And we come out better people because of it. And then we get to the point where we're like dissension? Bring it on, 'cause I know it's gonna be beautiful on the other side." **Kris:** Right. \[00:38:00\] Do you have any guidance on, how to help people g- stay regulated? Like, how do, what are your main ways to help your clients do that? **Debbie:** Yeah, so a couple of things, and these are not new, right? But I find that constant repetition, even of messages, sometimes it lands differently with different people. Like, there are so many studies right now about health and good sleep, and be physically healthy, because we can't do the work that we need to do if we're not. **Debbie:** So if you're not, and I, I'm not one to say, "Watch what you put in your mouth," and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but uncover if there are things that you need help with, go find it. Right? Um, also, in order to keep yourself regulated, this is spiritual work that we do. Regardl- like however you wanna believe, whether it's universe, Buddha, Jesus, whatever, like it is spiritual work because we, the essence of who we are, when we die our brain dies, but the essence \[00:39:00\] of who we are is what we're really working with here, and those belief systems and how we are. And so honestly, it's not about adding more time to your day. It's not about, looking out and saying, "Oh, meditate every morning." I will tell you, there are things that I do to ground myself, and there are things and people in my life that I let my little girl come out and play. We finger paint. We shoot squirrels 'cause we're like with Nerf guns, you know, joking around that we're shooting the squirrels in our brains and, like, asking them to settle down. And you know, like those things that make you laugh. And I suggest to many clients to go buy, I think it's now $1.29, for a bag of large marshmallows. Not the huge ones, not the little bitty ones. **Debbie:** And find a room in your house where any animals cannot get in. You lay bags down for every person in your family, and you have yours open, and you tell them when they can come in the door, and you start throwing marshmallows at them. And it- that's \[00:40:00\] exactly what happens, Kris, right? Like that laughter. So if nothing else, part of regulation, and we don't laugh as much anymore. Right? Like, I joke with my brother-in-law. I love to watch any kind of program with him because he laughs out loud. He emotes very well. But a lot of us, me, I watch something, I'm like, "Oh, that was funny." **Kris:** Totally. I don't laugh out loud. I will laugh out loud on Instagram every- Right ... now and then. It's pretty funny. But yeah, I know what you mean. Right. And- Yeah ... **Debbie:** and honestly, we numb out. I do it too. We numb out to the reels, to the Netflix, to those- Yeah ... things because we're tired, right? And so some of that is regulating the committee that's in your head. **Debbie:** But but really honestly, if you can even just get outside. When we do nature walks, I tell them, "Don't bring anything to drink. Don't bring a dog. Don't say hello to anyone. Just go out and kind of be in a state," because meditation is listening.\[00:41:00\] Mm-hmm. Right? Prayer, whatever it is that you do to, like, manifest, your affirmations- Yeah ... whatever, that's asking. That's telling. Yeah. That's speaking. But we really do need to have moments, and sometimes I've even done those moments at a stoplight. **Debbie:** Okay, what am I supposed to be? Like, where's... **Debbie:** Yep. And the hard part is sometimes, Kris, is a lot of people don't trust themselves when they do get the answer. **Debbie:** Right? So it comes hand-in-hand. But honestly, I don't have necessarily one specific thing, but I would say things that help me is practicing meditation. Sometimes it's for one minute. I have an app, that I can set a timer so that I don't have to worry about having my phone. I turn my phone on airplane mode so nothing... And I turn it off the internet so nothing buzzes through. I literally go hike almost every day. Now, I have my dog with me, so that's a little different. But I try to do a nature \[00:42:00\] walk at least once a month, where I literally go out, I cross a line, and that's entering my sacred walk, and I pick up a, a rock, and I imagine everything and anything I need to let go of to move forward. And I take the walk, and once I feel like that's happened, I can set the rock down. I've thrown it before. Sometimes it's just fallen out of my hand. Then I pick up a piece of wood, because that signifies the tree of life, 'cause things grow from wood. Because nature abhors a vacuum, so wherever we make space, it's gonna fill it with something. So then I try to be mindful then, as I'm holding that piece of wood, of asking what's coming. What do I need to be mindful of filling that space? And when I feel like that's happened, I let go of the piece of wood, leave it on the trail, then I create a line in front of me and say I'm passing out of my sacred threshold, and I step out of the threshold. I usually keep, like, a little, notebook in my purse or I'll put notes in my phone if I want to. and I try not to take my phone, and if I do, I do turn it on \[00:43:00\] airplane mode so that it... nothing comes through. Mm-hmm. but I hike alone a lot, so I do take my phone just in case, right? Mm-hmm. But but I think it's so important, even if it means that you go sit on a bench somewhere. There are m- I remember the first time I did this, I sat down, I was actually at the Gonzaga campus. Mm-hmm. And there's this beautiful willow tree, bright yellow. Yellow is one of my favorite colors. You can't tell. A- and I sat down in this Adirondack chair, and there's an ambulance and there's a lawnmower, and I was irritated 'cause there's all this noise. And I believe nothing's random, everything's relevant. We just may not know what the story is at the moment, and I thought, "Oh, isn't that interesting. I have a lot of noise in my life." **Debbie:** I need to look at that, right? So it's not always about analyzing and trying to figure out, but just being open to what comes into your mind- So even if it's sitting for 10 minutes, if you're busy in the middle of your day, stand up and go walk outside. Go walk around the block with just no phone, no dog, no nothing, and just \[00:44:00\] notice. Like, I even do it, I have to drive a mile and a half across a bridge across this lake that I live on. It's glacier-fed. There's mountains. There's rarely a day that I don't see a bald eagle. There's wild swans that show up. So I'm constantly, as I go across that bridge, I'm just in awe of where I live, and I... That is one of my prayers, that I never lose that sense of awe. So it doesn't ha- it could be a mile when you're driving in your car. **Debbie:** There are a lot of times I don't turn music on in the car. That's my thinking time, right? Where I just allow whatever comes into my head, and I try not to filter and poo-poo it. **Debbie:** Because that, when we do that, we're filtering and then we lose some stuff. And that's gonna happen- Yeah because we've learned not to trust ourselves, right? **Debbie:** So that's my biggest hack is try to get out somewhere where you can just, like, notice things around you- Yeah ... for a few minutes. Yeah. And also breathe. I think we've become a society where we don't breathe. **Kris:** Oh, just there's this guy on \[00:45:00\] YouTube that I love, and he does a 10-minute, a breathing meditation, and it's, like, mind-blowing how calm I am after 10 minutes of breathing. really powerful, and it's right there. They're built into our bodies. We don't have to go do anything, right? Yeah. **Debbie:** And Kris, it actually speeds you up. You're able to get more shit done. You're able to do more things because you took the break. It's just like thinking about a printer. If you ran that... You were talking about fifth gear. If you, if you ran a printer 24/7 without stopping, it would break down a whole lot faster- and have to be maintained a whole lot more versus- Mm ... giving it moments of maintenance. **Kris:** Oh, I love it. My, my kiddo, he's eight, and his school is about a mile from here. I drive him to school in the morning, and about two blocks from his school is Forest Park, which in Portland is the biggest park, biggest urban park west of the Mississippi. \[00:46:00\] And, I have this idea that I just wanna walk over there and go on a 15-minute hike. It's, like, in the middle of the woods. You would never know there's a whole city around you. and I think this conversation today has inspired me to do that, I mean- Good ... I think when I integrate it into the, the day-to-day, it just becomes so much easier. **Debbie:** Yeah. And look for those moments everywhere, right? And the beautiful thing, too, is when we own our own business, there were many years that I kind of thought, "Oh, I still have to work 8:00 to 5:00," right? "I can't leave." And it took me a while to get over that and realize I could ski, downhill ski, during ski season, Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and still do work in the afternoon, right? But I purposefully, like, I'll look at my calendar and I'm like, "Oh, like, right after we're done here, I have a few-minute break, so we're gonna go take a little bit of a walk before I do a master class." And, you know, so it's finding those moments. I will tell you, even in my car, because I do drive about three miles to work, I tend to ride my bike in the summer, I have a pair of flip-flops, I have a pair of hiking boots, and a pair of tennis shoes in the \[00:47:00\] back of my car with socks, right? Because I wanna be prepared that, hey, if I do have some time, I wanna go take a walk and just be out. So sometimes it's thinking a little differently and having some things available so that when you decide spur of the moment... And in the summer, we all carry bathing suits in the back of our car in case we decide to go jump in the lake, so **Debbie:** Yeah, Kris, I'm glad you asked that actually. That's interesting. No one's ever asked me that. So I did a DNA test a while back, and what it told me is that I have the propensity to change time zones very quickly, and I do. I change very quickly to a time zone. But what happens in that is that I do have to have a pretty, I don't wanna say rigid, but a pretty, like, succinct nighttime routine to allow my body to realize it's time to go to bed. And so before I go to bed at night, I typically try to stay up until 10:00, which is not always the easiest thing, because if I don't take my dog out between 9:00 and 10:00, I'm \[00:48:00\] usually up at 1:30 taking him outside. So there's that. Yeah. That I've had to get used to another rhythm, the law of rhythm. But typically, I do my whole routine... I don't... This is terrible. Some people are gonna poo-poo me on this. I don't wash my face at night, but I do sometimes put a little oil on it, but I brush my teeth, I do my waterpik, I do my, you know, everything. I have a mouth guard that I use for sleep apnea, so it's doing its thing, cleaning while I'm doing that. And then I typically will lay down in bed. I typically will read a little something, or I have some shows that are about 15 to 20 minutes long. I don't usually do anything, like, super inspirational or anything for... **Debbie:** And there are times now, being the age that I am, I take probably once or twice a week, something that has, like, .5 milligrams of melatonin in it, just so that I can make sure I stay up on my sleep. But again, on- typically only about twice a week do I do that. I also, I have all the \[00:49:00\] windows wide open when it's summer. However, I have fans that I put, 'cause we don't have air conditioning where I live with- because it's so north. I put these double fans in my windows to keep out the noise. **Debbie:** And to bring in the cool air, and they're set to a certain temperature. And the reason I do that is the sun starts to come up at about 4:30 in the morning, and right now, even at 5:30 I'm waking up 'cause the sun is out, and the eagles start screeching and all of that will wake me up. So I have certain things, almost like white noise, that I keep in my... Now, my marketing person just gave me this thing, and I don't know if I can do it 'cause I don't know if claustrophobic-wise if I can have something on my face, but it's, like, a m- a mask that also has a Bluetooth in it. But I don't know if I like that either, the Bluetooth piece of it But that you can listen to, like, meditations or have, like, grounding music on- Mm ... you know, to kind of help with that. Yeah. So I thought, "You know what? If I ever wanna do, like, a theta brain kind of 15-minute break, that's probably a really good thing." But that's typically my nighttime routine. And, I'll turn the \[00:50:00\] light off, and then... And I don't read as much in bed anymore. I typically, I have a, a morning routine that I get up, I do a frequency scanner, I sit and do some reading, sometimes fiction, sometimes nonfiction. I have to force myself to read fiction. Me too. But so I have some pretty good routines morning and night. Mm-hmm. But I would say too, one of the things that I've done a lot of research on is when you think about people that are grounded, not just monetarily successful, but they tend to have more of a routine. And they get up and go to bed almost the same time every day. **Kris:** weekends. Yeah. That, for me, that's been the gift of having my boy, really. Kids really need routine, and then I realized, oh, I, I need one too. Yeah. This is perfect. Thank you. **Debbie:** Absolutely. And Kris, I will tell you, I think too, looking at sleep, if... My friend Wendy, who owns a multiple eight-figure business in Florida, she takes toddler naps every day. **Debbie:** Like, literally she'll lay down for one to two hours and take a toddler nap. And so, \[00:51:00\] listen to your body. That's what I would say my biggest advice would be too, not just on a nighttime routine, but if you're... Like, last night I had this, like, creative spurt and I was up until 10:50. Right? And then I'm like, "Oh, we got, I gotta get you outside and we gotta go to bed," right? And so I went straight up, didn't read anything or, like, watch anything. I just laid down and went to bed. But ultimately, if I'm tired, I'm gonna lay down for 30 minutes to 45 minutes and let myself go into a 15-minute kinda theta brain piece of it- Mm ... and do a little meditation to just rest, and then I get up and I'm great until 10:00, 10:30 at night, right? So owning your own business there's always... We were given a message, Kris. How many of us, probably you too, finish your homework before you go out and play, or finish your chores before you go out and play? **Debbie:** As an entrepreneur, the work is never done, so we have just been screwed by the pooch with that one, right? So allow yourself some grace that if you need to take a rest, take a rest. Go lay in the grass, for crying out loud. Then you're out in nature. Yeah. **Kris:** okay. Today has been so much fun. I've loved this conversation. Tell us where we can find you and where we can get more of you. **Debbie:** Yeah. Thank you, Kris. I think you'll probably have it in the show notes too, but I would say go out to my website. It's thelituplife.com, L-I-T for lit. And pretty much everything is there, how to get to my free group out on Facebook. On Facebook, I'm Debbie Heiser. Out on Instagram, I'm the\_lituplife. but you can find all of that even on my website, so I would just suggest going out there, so yeah. **Kris:** And then you have a mastermind. You do one-on-one coaching. How do you serve your clients? **Debbie:** I do. Thank you for asking, Kris. I have multiple different ways that you can work with me privately, whether that's a concierge kind of situation for a year, or if it's a three-month kind of thing, or I do just straight out VIP days. Then I have a mastermind that runs from January to December, and I can't tell you how many coaches are like, "Let it be where people can come in and out." And I'm like, "Nope, nope, that's not the purpose for me." I wanna build a \[00:53:00\] strong unit because I got tired of hearing the message that being your own CEO is lonely. I'm like, "No, that's a choice." So this group gets together. We do two trips. We just went to Mexico in February. We're going to Greece in September. I don't know what next year's are gonna be, but that... I do those. Then I have events that I run in Sandpoint. I'm doing one at the end of May called From Hello to Hell Yes, which is all about the marketing arc, and sales. And then one in October that is called Cast Your Vision. We do nature walks. We do certain things to kinda figure out where we're stuck and really try to listen internally- ... so that we can move forward. So that's part of where I do the embodiment work with people, so yeah. **Kris:** Incredible. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Thank you again for being here. **Debbie:** Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's been a blast. We need to just rift on things. Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into your most \[00:54:00\] powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - The two rules that decide whether your brand story influences anyone, backed by narrative research - Why making your business the hero has been proven to reduce your impact, not raise it - The four characters showing up in your content, and the two that quietly cost you trust - A repeatable way to find your own point of view when AI has flattened everyone else's - **Why time management was never really the problem**, and what to focus on instead - **How one client turned her slowest quarter into her best.** - **How to figure out what's draining your energy and what's fueling it**, so you can move your business forward - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/sample-blog-page ### Title: Sample Blog Page ### Page ID: 9709751 ### Content: # Why Business Owners Avoid Video and What It Costs Them ## About This Episode ## What You'll Walk Away With ## Questions This Episode Answers ## Meet Kirsten Graham ## Connect with Kris Jones ***You'll leave knowing the #1 messaging mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** Why staying off camera is quietly costing you clients, and how to start showing up on video before you feel ready. Why Business Owners Avoid Video and What It Costs Them, with Kirsten Graham You have something to say that would make a great video. But you still haven't hit record, and there's always a reason to put it off. Maybe you don't like hearing your own voice or the way you look on screen. And so another month goes by. In this episode, I'm talking with video strategist Kirsten Graham, who started her first YouTube channel in 2006. Her first video was, by her own description, terrible. She cringed watching it back. But she posted it anyway, and it worked. We get into why so many capable business owners stay invisible on video, what that hesitation costs in real clients, and how to start before you feel ready. Why do business owners avoid being on video? What does avoiding video actually cost a service business? Do you need professional equipment to start a video podcast? How do you keep a podcast going past the first few episodes? "I'm always a big believer in progress, not perfection." Kirsten Graham is a video strategist who helps business owners get seen through video podcasts and YouTube. She started her own channel in 2006, long before it was the obvious move, and now guides clients through strategy, launching, booking great guests, and the systems that keep a show running, including trained virtual assistants who handle the production work owners shouldn't be doing themselves. *\[Draft bio from the episode; replace with the guest's provided bio.\]* [**Visit Kirsten's Website**](#) [**Follow on YouTube**](#) [**Follow on LinkedIn**](#) Kris Jones is the founder of Red Door Stories, a Certified StoryBrand Guide, and a messaging strategist who helps service providers, coaches, and consultants clarify their marketing message so they can attract consistent clients. Her core belief: simplicity is a strategic advantage. Less noise, clearer message, more traction. [**Book a Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/) [**Grab the Free StoryBrand Soundbites Toolkit**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/free-resources) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/reddoorstory) **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] You have something to say that would make a great video. But you still haven't hit record... **Kirsten:** Kris, thank you so much for having me. You may be in trouble, because I could talk about this for hours. *\[In the real deliverable, the full formatted transcript continues: speaker names bolded, timestamps kept, clean paragraphs. Fully crawlable for search and AI engines.\]* *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - The real reason capable business owners avoid video, and why it has nothing to do with equipment - What staying off camera quietly costs you in clients and trust - Why most podcasters quit after three episodes, and what the ones who last do differently - How to repurpose one video conversation into a week's worth of content - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/brand-positioning-most-owners-skip ### Title: The Brand Positioning Work Most Owners Skip, with Charles Lee ### Page ID: 9720613 ### Content: # The Brand Positioning Work Most Owners Skip, with Charles Lee ## About This Episode ## What You'll Walk Away With ## Questions This Episode Answers ## Meet Charles Lee ## Connect with Kris Jones ***You'll leave knowing the #1 messaging mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** Why years of good execution stop producing, and the positioning work that has to be settled before any of it pays off. The Brand Positioning Work Most Owners Skip, with Charles Lee Brand positioning is the work most business owners skip, and it is usually the reason years of good execution stop producing. You are marketing consistently. You are doing the work well. The results still do not match the effort, and the instinct is to do more of it. In this episode I sit down with Charles Lee, founder of Ideation, whose firm helps brands move from strategic clarity into execution. Charles works with everyone from Fortune 10 companies to solo entrepreneurs, and he sees the same thing at both ends of that range. As you get busier you get pulled in more directions, the headspace to think clearly shrinks, and you drift from what you set out to build. He will not take on a client who is not willing to make that headspace back, because ideas generated without it are not aligned to the person, and unaligned ideas do not hold. We get into the three questions that shape positioning, what to do when a good idea stalls at the last minute, and the difference between proving a concept works and proving it creates value for someone else. Charles also shares the framework behind his new book, Design Your Good Life, and why the skill that feels effortless to you is usually the one worth building a business around. What is brand positioning and why does it come before marketing? Why isn't my business growing even though I am working hard? What is the difference between proof of concept and proof of value? How do you get unstuck when you have a good idea but cannot start? "Those skills we take for granted are probably our greatest skills. I think we discount it because it comes so naturally, it's so innate." Charles is the Founder and CEO of Ideation, a firm that helps brands scale their vision through strategic clarity and smart brand execution. He is also the author of *Design Your Good Life* and *Good Idea. Now What?*. Charles has advised leaders from brands such as Toyota, Google, Caterpillar, Gibson Dunn, and Sequoia Capital on innovation, branding, and leadership. [**Visit Ideation**](https://ideation.com) [**Visit Charles Lee's Website**](https://charlestlee.com) [**Get the Book: Design Your Good Life**](https://www.charlestlee.com/design-your-good-life-book-landing-page) [**Connect on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlestlee) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://www.instagram.com/charlestlee) Kris Jones is the founder of Red Door Stories, a Certified StoryBrand Guide, and a messaging strategist who helps service providers, coaches, and consultants clarify their marketing message so they can attract consistent clients. Her core belief: simplicity is a strategic advantage. Less noise, clearer message, more traction. [**Book a Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://go.reddoorstories.com/money-making-messaging-call) [**Grab the Free StoryBrand Soundbites Toolkit**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/free-resources) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/reddoorstory) [**Subscribe to Kris's YouTube Channel and Learn How to Attract More Clients**](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp2qSBrlNsDU7KTGZV74o0w/) **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Charles Lee, I am so excited to have you here on the show. Charles is the founder of Ideation. At its essence, he helps people get clear on what they want and then actually make that happen. Charles, tell us a little bit about you and what you do. **Charles:** Great. Well, Kris, first of all, thanks so much for having me on your podcast. I've been looking forward to this. What we do as a firm is really focus on execution. The way we do that is we have basically two large buckets of services. One is around strategic clarity. So we work with leaders of all kinds of brands, from Fortune 10 companies all the way to kind of mom and pop entrepreneurs, around achieving clarity on some of their inklings of ideas, or maybe they already have a strategic plan, so we help them filter what that means for the real world. Our second bucket of services is around creative services. So we do everything from design, brand, marketing, content, brand activations, and some smart ways to build partnerships. **Kris:** \[00:01:00\] And you mentioned that you've worked with some celebrities as well. Is that true? You're in the LA area, so you don't have to name names if you don't want to, but I'm just curious, because ultimately a celebrity is really just a personal brand. And if you're a coach or a consultant, you really are a personal brand. That's a great way to think about who you are and what you do. It's like your marketing, your messaging, your design. Everything needs to be in perfect alignment with who you are as a business owner. So let's just for fun talk about a scenario where you helped a celebrity. **Charles:** Yeah, I think celebrities, and we've worked with professional athletes who are, I guess, celebrities as well, you can imagine they're approached by thousands of people wanting things from them. And I think in the midst of that it's really important, to your point, that they stay focused on who they are and who they aspire to be. So we do a lot of brand work around their own identity, really what kind of impact or legacy do they want to create in the world. \[00:02:00\] And then we always think in terms of branding in these three areas, and this is true of personal brands as well as company brands. One is, what's their differentiation? What makes them truly unique in the world that they're in. Secondly, how does what they're creating land with people who consume it, people who want to be connected with it, affiliated with it, and really hone in on the value creation they're providing the world. And third is what space can they own, so that when people think about a certain category of thought, they would think about that person, or if you're a company, the company. And so we work hard, and it's multilayered. They usually have multiple businesses and charitable influence going. So we help them organize everything from their personal brand all the way to helping them navigate all the opportunities that come their way. **Kris:** And tell me what happens when a client comes to you and they've been executing, right? They've just been taking action, but they haven't taken the time to really \[00:03:00\] pause. Often it helps to have a thought partner involved in this process, but pause and get clear on who you are, to your point, your positioning. Your positioning just means what problem do you want to be known for. So, how can you own that problem? We want to get clear on all that stuff first, and I'll tell you that the majority of clients that come to me have been in that position where they've been executing many times for years and really doing a good job of executing, but it's not working because it's not born from that fertile soil, that foundational work of your positioning. So let's talk about that a little bit. **Charles:** Yeah, I think you're right on. I think all of us get busy and it's bound to happen that we start drifting away from who we want to be or who we think we are. And that just naturally happens because you start getting pulled in multiple ways and your mental headspace starts to shrink, sometimes disappear. And so when people come to us, we really focus in on, \[00:04:00\] one, they probably can't work with us unless they're willing to create some headspace, because it's not going to be fruitful. We can always conjure up ideas, but those ideas have to be aligned to the person. And so this was kind of one of the reasons I just released another book, and it's called Design Your Good Life. And it's all about alignment to your sense of your own personhood, your values. And then from there, you can discover some direction and purpose, and then of course, when you have that direction, it's far easier to execute anyway. And then you could start to quickly prioritize which activities really benefit your journey versus distract you from the journey you're on. So that's how we kind of start. But we usually say, if you're not willing to put in the time or make time and create time, because this is valuable, then we're probably not the right partner for you. **Kris:** Tell me tangibly what that actually looks like. If you're talking to a client and saying, you really need to carve out some time for \[00:05:00\] headspace, for introspection, for deep thinking, tangibly, what are you hoping that they're going to be doing and what are some ideas or ways they can create that? **Charles:** Yeah. I think for us, we generally try to spend at least a couple of days with a client to kick off and force that time off. And it's usually hard with very busy people, but I think most, no matter how busy you are, you could find a half a day or a full day somewhere, and we walk them through our discovery process of a refocusing. Lots of different ways that you could refocus on your own personhood. Really, what is your vocational pursuit? What does success look like? What is it that you really want to create as a brand yourself? And so just walking them through a ton of various exercises, and it varies by client, because we don't think everybody should follow the same formula necessarily. There may be an overarching process, but we work really hard to understand the personality, the way that the client thinks about things. So I was a philosophy major in grad school, so I'm all about how they created the hierarchy of thinking in their own \[00:06:00\] minds. And that helps clarify the whys underneath that are unspoken at first. **Kris:** Got it. Okay, I love that. Thank you. So we talked a little bit about people that execute without yet doing that foundational clarity work. What happens? What's the opposite of that? When somebody has a great idea and they're like, I want to do this, whether it's write a book or create an offer or build a new something, but they're feeling stuck. What's actually going on in that situation? **Charles:** Yeah, there's probably layers. From the research that we've done and really thinking about how people come up with ideas, they're probably getting stuck at multiple fronts. I know a book years ago, The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. **Charles:** Great book, right. And he talks about the lizard brain, that some people have a good enough idea, but at the last minute \[00:07:00\] they come up with all of these irrational reasons as to why they can't do it. Or people are seeking too much perfection, or thinking that the idea has to be fully baked before you could launch it. And the reality is, the idea you start with is rarely the idea you end up with, and you won't even know the right questions to ask unless you start. And so it's kind of one of those things where I always say, look, if you feel like you're 70 percent there, wherever there is, I would say get going and test it out, kind of pressurize it. Because you have to move from a proof of concept of something to creating a proof of value for that idea, and that proof of value is something that you could prove to somebody, that whatever product or service you're creating is actually creating value in someone else's life. And so doing that hard work is really hard. And if not, you end up being sort of like what I think Zig Ziglar talked about. He said, you could either be a \[00:08:00\] wandering generality or a meaningful specific. But people who have a meaningful specific started something and they were moving and chose to refine what that meaningful specific is or was. And so I would just encourage people that getting stuck in part is often just self caused. We could create narratives in our heads as to what caused the blockage, but at the end, it's usually hypothetical blockage that's not based in the reality. It's just based in our fears and sometimes our insecurities, which everyone has. And those who can move forward despite having all of those feelings are the ones who will execute. **Kris:** Right. I think a big part of the journey as an entrepreneur is owning that problem and really standing firm in that, and then putting that message out there, which requires visibility, it requires courage, it requires overriding that lizard brain that's saying visibility \[00:09:00\] could be dangerous, or these things happened in the past and this is why you should not become visible. So how do you walk your clients through that very diligent lizard brain that we all have? **Charles:** Yeah, I say, I have them sometimes role play. I know some of your listeners are solopreneurs, coaches, advisors and such. And I would say, hey, take your own advice. If you're sitting down with a person who had the same skillset as you do, the same vision, the same type of passion around their ideas, what would you advise them to do as their coach? I would say nine out of ten times the people I ask that question to would say, I would tell them to go for it. **Charles:** Right. And I'm like, hey, why don't you listen to your own values and advice you give others? **Charles:** And it just kind of clicks and they're like, you know, you're absolutely right. I'm not listening to the very advice I'm giving others. And they tend to move from that and say, look, just as much as you believe in others, I bet you if you told the same thing to a trusted confidant or a friend or advisor or mentor, they would tell you the same thing. So whatever this is that's blocking is really not based in reality. It's \[00:10:00\] based in some type of parallel universe where things don't work out, but you don't live in that universe. And it's just, hey, we need to take our own advice, take our own meds, and get moving. Because it's possible. And I've seen people just go. Most people that go don't have all the answers anyway. And that's where the beauty of an idea comes to life, where your life starts to feel vibrant because you're in maybe even positions that feel uncomfortable, environments that are unfamiliar, and being able to work through that and learn. Because the worst thing that could happen is you learn. **Charles:** The best thing is you learn, plus you succeed. It's sort of like a win-win. And I'm not saying it doesn't cost you something to go after it. I get that. But I think good entrepreneurs are pretty calculated in the risk taking and are able to take some really good risk. But they know that it can happen in incremental steps. It doesn't need to happen all at once. You don't have to know everything at once in month one or quarter one. And it's \[00:11:00\] taking those bite-size actions and creating some accountability and transparency around that with your trust circle to keep moving the idea forward and then editing it as you go. **Kris:** Right. I think that's a beautiful point. Number one, to step outside of your own self and be an advisor, give yourself the advice that you would give others, and that creates a little bit of distance between us and our lizard brain. And then the idea that really the idea cannot reach its highest potential or can't serve you in the greatest way if you don't first create the first draft, put it out there, and then hone and hone and hone. And I think as an entrepreneur, and I've been one now over 20 years, and I love it, I love it because I never stop learning and I also never stop \[00:12:00\] honing. Your website, your messaging, your offers. They get sharper and sharper every year. Sometimes you pivot, sometimes you just hone, but it's this continuous evolution that I think will continue until probably the day that I die. **Charles:** Yeah, and that's life, right? Life is not all of these prepackaged moments. Life happens organically, and it happens in a way that's beautiful. Some things grow, and then you let some things die so that it can grow again. And I think that's okay. It's not about always being at your peak of everything. That's not realistic. And so just understanding that in this flow of life, you go with not only what life gives you, but what you can do with that moment, and do your best with what you know. And I think that's a powerful combination if you choose to just persevere and stay resilient. **Kris:** \[00:13:00\] I can hear your philosophy background coming through. It's really beautiful. So you wrote this book about designing your life instead of just reacting to life. Let's talk more about that. That's really appealing to me. How does one design their life instead of just letting it happen to them? **Charles:** Yeah, so the book's called Design Your Good Life, and I purposely chose the word design versus create or build, because I feel like, working in the creative space, that design infers some intentionality. It infers some type of challenge you're going to overcome. It implies that there is some conscious choice being made to solve a problem. **Charles:** Yeah. So I'm not trying to dictate what a good life is for someone. I think that is highly dependent upon people's background. Everything from, were you raised in the east, were you raised in the west, your spiritual views, philosophical views, cultural view. All of these things shape our notion of good. But if you look at the research that's out there, people generally \[00:14:00\] land on two things. One is they want good relationships with their loved ones. That's one of the most fulfilling things human beings want. And second, I think human beings generally want to do good in the world at some level, local, or it might be global, but this idea of contributing back and this idea that you want to leave the world better than you found it to the extent possible. And so whatever that good life practically looks like for a person, I developed a visual framework that we actually tested out with 30 different readers from 30 different backgrounds to make sure that it's conducive for those who have means versus those who don't, those who come from different backgrounds. And so what I did was I divided it into three phases of building a good life. And in each phase is a particular mindset, skillset, and drive and outcome to work through. So I'll give you just the quick, abbreviated version. The first phase is called Spark. It's designed for those who feel like something's on the verge. They're not quite sure what, but they need a little bit of clarity. So in that \[00:15:00\] phase, the mindset is curiosity. There's a whole lot of science about the brain and curiosity, its mental benefits, its health benefits. Something about embracing autonomy and taking hold of your life through curiosity actually opens up doors. And there's a lot of interesting studies, and yet companies want curious people, but generally curiosity tends to take a nosedive six months in, in a new position, because it's not rewarded, for example. And people realize that it's easier to align themselves with what incentivizes their career growth versus staying curious. So there's a lot of factors there, but the skillset of ideating, driving towards clarity in that season, and hopefully landing on some outcome of purpose, at least directionally. **Kris:** Right. And you can't be curious and fearful at the same time. Is that true? I've heard that. **Charles:** Yeah, I mean, I guess fear is like one of those knee jerk reactions. You may learn something new and you're like, oh, that's kind of scary. So I suppose fear can creep in, but when you're curious, I think you're far more open to what could be. And so \[00:16:00\] the Spark phase walks the reader through that. And then we get to the Actualize phase, and that's all about implementation and execution. As I mentioned earlier, it's moving a concept from a proof of concept to a proof of value, so that when you enter rooms, you know exactly what you're bringing to the table, and that you could tell when people know what they're talking about versus people who are trying to fake it till they make it. So that level of confidence is a game changer for business owners and entrepreneurs. If your client senses that you genuinely, one, care about them, and two, know what you're talking about, sales becomes a lot easier. But the last phase is what I'm super excited about. It's called Influence, and it's all about curating your relationships, your resources, financial and other kinds of resources, your thought leadership, and moving from being the best in the world in something to being the best for the world in something. Is that kind of shift to making impact? And if you do that, I think the outcome will actually be some form of healthy legacy, and \[00:17:00\] people will say that you actually lived a good life. Because they see the impact of your work and how you make them feel, and what you're passionate about and what your relationships are like. And so that's the spirit of the book. And it's meant to, I have no aspiration of being anyone's guru. I just wanted a visual framework that can help walk with somebody, whatever season they're in, whichever element they're working through of life, to help them and encourage them to get a little bit closer to the kind of life they want. **Kris:** Tell me, how have you navigated that framework and that journey in your own life? **Charles:** Yeah, I immigrated to the states from Korea when I was five with my parents. And they were restaurant entrepreneurs and they were very fortunate in the sense they developed a couple of well-known franchises in the current restaurant market, both here in LA as well as in Korea. And they built a business here without knowing the language and such. And we had nothing, but I learned a whole lot about how to build something from nothing. So I can remember sitting with my \[00:18:00\] mother learning how she did the books, or how they marketed a new restaurant, how they treated their employees. And I just kind of caught those things over the years. And initially, I thought I was going to be a philosophy professor. Because it also came at a price, right? Running a business comes at a price. We didn't really have vacations. It really cost them their marriage. It did a lot of harm as much as benefit. And so I just ran the other way and said, hey, I'm going to be a professor. But as I was doing that, I still had opportunities and friends who always said I had a knack for building stuff and scaling it. Then when social media came along, and I'm kind of aging myself, but when social media came along, I was a super early adopter and started playing around with things like YouTube and all these social channels on how to scale concepts, how to connect people. And then I found myself doing everything from global flash mobs to, back then it was called guerrilla marketing. And brands took notice and top \[00:19:00\] marketers took notice. And they came and said, hey, you should continue to develop content. We want to hire you. And then that's how my career took off. And then for years, I would just contribute to the tribe I was building at the time. Fortunately, I had the fortune of having people like Seth Godin speak into my life and help me think about tribes more intentionally. And he said, Charles, it's not that hard to get your message out, but it's incredibly difficult to get people to care about what you're saying, and you want to create products that people care about. So for three years, I did about 15 conferences around the country before we launched the company officially, and just built thought leadership by convening people around the pain of execution. And then finally, by year two and three, when large brands were showing up to our events, they asked, so Charles, what do you do outside of these events? And that's when we actually launched Ideation more fully and said, hey, we have a team that can help you execute. So our first clients were big brands, and it's all been word of mouth, and I think we turn 17 later this year. So it's been quite the journey, a risky approach to \[00:20:00\] business growing. But realizing that I didn't come from anything, to know that my family built what they built, I was able to piggyback off of that. And now my family, our kids, as well as my wife and I, we are highly committed to projects of impact. So we've had the privilege of working with social enterprise brands, not-for-profit foundations, and now we get to build our own family foundation to invest. So it's been quite the journey. So this book is the fruit of me taking a step back, taking my own advice, and trying to think if there was a framework to help someone build the kind of life that could create impact in the world, what would that be? And so this was the product of that journey for the last two years. **Kris:** Incredible. Well, I can't wait to read the book. What I love, or what popped out for me in hearing this story, is that you really followed that golden thread. You thought you were going to be a professor, but then people were coming to \[00:21:00\] you for certain things. And you essentially, people told you who you were, because you were so close to it, you didn't really even have awareness around it. And I think that's a question that we can ask ourselves. Like what do people come to us for? And what feels fun and easy for us to help others with. **Charles:** Yeah, that's actually a similar question that my therapist at the time, because I was doing so many things, I was hardly sleeping, because I was so excited about 10 projects. Everything seemed to scale at the time. I'm like, there's no way I could keep this up. And she asked, what are you best in your world at? Not the whole world. And then I said, you know, I've always got feedback from, whether it's students or other people, that I could take complex thoughts and make it bite-size so you could work with it and scale it. And she's like, that's kind of like your superpower. And I thought, well, everybody else can do that. That was my thing. And the aha moment was, you know, those skills we take for granted \[00:22:00\] are probably our greatest skills, right? It's our superpower. And I think we discount it because it comes so naturally, it's so innate. But I think those are the things we ought to do. Those are the things that really the world needs us to do. And if you can align yourself with what you're just naturally really good at, and with some extra work and focus, you can make it that much better. I mean, that's where you could thrive. **Kris:** That's so beautiful. It's really weird that we value the things that are effortful and harder, and then we just take for granted the things that come easily and we're like, what? You want to pay me for that? **Kris:** Okay, so if somebody is listening right now and feeling just stuck, what's one thing that they can do to find clarity and really take action? **Charles:** I found, in my own personal life and working with leaders, that often innovative ideas are the result of \[00:23:00\] two or more seemingly unrelated ideas intersecting. And so some practical things that people can do is, one, I do this myself, is every year I try to go to a conference outside of my space. And the reason I do that is because I want to hear how people are solving their own problems in their own context, and I want to meet and learn from new, interesting people in a completely different field. So I invite myself to go to a different type of event, or I'll read a book that's out of my space that will force me to pay attention and to try to figure out what's going on. That means that I probably don't know a lot of the terms, I don't know a lot of the research behind what they're talking about, but it gives me a good reason to go learn something. I'm fortunate because most of our clients come from all different types of industries, and our whole team has to learn so much, so quick. So I'm already learning a lot from different industries. But there's something about putting yourself in a different new environment and staying curious, and it goes back to that mindset. And if people do that and pay attention to what they're \[00:24:00\] hearing, and can really build up their skillset, like ideating, whether they use a design thinking process or some other process, to say, okay, I need to start paying attention to some of the themes I'm hearing, and some opportunities. And maybe you could apply something from a different field to your field. And I think that's where the real innovation comes. And if you look at the innovative companies, that's what they do. They will send people to certain cities if there's high activity in that city that's energizing, and they'll set up a post there, an office, to go learn from that entrepreneurial community, for example. So people have been doing this. And I would say even if you're a solopreneur, go to a local networking meeting, go to a local conference, go to a TEDx or something. Just get out of your normal everyday activity and put yourself in a new environment to hear some new ideas and then refine the ones you already have. **Kris:** Incredible. I love that. \[00:25:00\] Charles, it has been so much fun having this conversation with you. Can you let everybody know where they can find you? **Charles:** Yeah. I'll start with the book. The book is called Design Your Good Life. So you could just go to designyourgoodlife.com, or you could find me, just look for Charles Lee or Charles T. Lee and Ideation, and you should be able to find me on any channel, pretty much. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - The three questions that define what you want to be known for, and why they come before any marketing activity - Why so many good ideas stall at the final step, and what is usually underneath that - The 70 percent rule for launching something before it feels finished - The question a therapist asked Charles that changed how he understood his own value - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/why-dream-clients-choose-one-coach ### Title: Why Dream Clients Choose One Coach Over Another, with Adam Roach ### Page ID: 9773564 ### Content: # Why Dream Clients Choose One Coach Over Another ## About This Episode ## What You'll Walk Away With ## Questions This Episode Answers ## Meet Adam Roach ## Connect with Kris Jones ***You'll leave knowing the #1 messaging mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** Why two coaches can sell the same result and attract completely different people, and how to find the version of you your message should be built on. Why Dream Clients Choose One Coach Over Another, with Adam Roach Most coaches step into the work carrying the expertise from the business they just left, the mortgage company, the corporate role, the sales job. It feels like the credible thing to lead with, and it is usually the reason their dream clients never see themselves in the message. In this episode I'm talking with Adam Roach, founder of I Love Coaching Co., who helps established coaches simplify their model and grow without adding more hours. Adam walks through the identity work that sits underneath coach marketing: the wound, the lie you told yourself about it, and the vow you made in response, which together produce what he calls a pose. He also shares the story of a client who went from selling mortgages to keynoting on adversity, and what changed when he stopped leading with performance. We get into pricing against your client's payoff instead of your hours, and his answer to the saturated market question. Two coaches can promise the same outcome using the same method and still attract completely different people, because the belief underneath the method is what people choose between. How do you stand out in a saturated coaching market? Why isn't my coaching business attracting the right clients? How do you figure out what to be known for as a coach? How should coaches price their offers? "You are not the value. You are the conduit to the payoff." Adam Roach is the founder of I Love Coaching Co., where he helps established coaches move from uncertainty to ownership. Most of the coaches he works with have momentum, but growth feels heavier than it should. He guides them to simplify their model, increase leverage, and build to $360K and beyond without adding more hours or complexity. His focus is clarity over hype and ownership over hustle. He creates environments where real conversations happen and clear decisions get made. Kris Jones is the founder of Red Door Stories, a Certified StoryBrand Guide, and a messaging strategist who helps service providers, coaches, and consultants clarify their marketing message so they can attract consistent clients. Her core belief: simplicity is a strategic advantage. Less noise, clearer message, more traction. [**Book a Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://go.reddoorstories.com/money-making-messaging-call) [**Grab the Free StoryBrand Soundbites Toolkit**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/free-resources) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/reddoorstory) [**Subscribe to Kris's YouTube Channel and Learn How to Attract More Clients**](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp2qSBrlNsDU7KTGZV74o0w/) **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Adam Roach, I am so happy to have you here today. You have an incredible business helping coaches, and actually a really beautiful podcast too. **Kris:** And I'm just so happy to have you here on the show, and I have just a lot of \[00:00:15\] excitement around giving our listeners value today. So welcome. **Adam:** Well, Kris, thank you for having me. Excited to be here. Excited to share value to your listeners and be a part of the Red Door story. This is, I'm excited for this. I've looked forward to this all week, and here we are. It's game \[00:00:30\] time. **Kris:** Here we are. It's game time. Here we go. So tell me, how do you serve your clients and your people? **Adam:** Well, I wanna back up a little bit, because this coaching space, when it comes to serving, I personally \[00:00:45\] believe, and again, all this is just gonna be my belief, thought process, and experience, is in the coaching space we have to have a calling towards it, right? **Adam:** We really have to have a calling towards it. I've had many, many \[00:01:00\] amazing coaches in my life. I almost feel naked if I don't have a coach somewhere in my world. My father was an Olympic swim coach, and so I'd been around coaching my entire life, but I didn't know I was around coaching. I played collegiate tennis. **Adam:** I tried my hand at \[00:01:15\] professional tennis and found out real quick I was an American, not a European. I was getting my butt kicked all the time, and so that was not a good profession for me. So the coaching space, where we sit right now, is \[00:01:30\] truly a calling of mine. And what we have inside the coaching community is what we call our REAL coach method, and R-E-A-L is not an arrogant term. **Adam:** I've been under the coaching and mentoring of John Maxwell for the last 12, 15 years, and he helped me establish this, because I kept sharing with him when I was \[00:01:45\] writing the white paper on this community about seven years ago that, "John, I wanted to really be around like-minded people. I wanted to serve people who are serving other people." **Adam:** I just didn't know how to articulate it. And he says, "Okay. Well, what do you want?" I was like, "I just wanna be around a bunch of real \[00:02:00\] people." He's like, "Ah, there it is." And so we established the REAL coach method, and REAL is an acronym that stands for Relevant, Experiential, Authentic Leaders. **Adam:** Because we believe that every coach should be a real \[00:02:15\] coach. And the leader part is probably one of the most important parts outside of the authentic part. Because what does a leader do? Kris, we know a leader is someone who influences people, but influences them for what? Influences them for hopefully the action that they will take towards their desired \[00:02:30\] outcome. **Adam:** So that's a little bit about who I am and what I do, and why I love to serve coaches is because they get to have an impact on so many other people. **Kris:** Yeah, I agree. I agree. I relate to that, and I love working with \[00:02:45\] coaches, consultants, advisors, because they're the ones boots on the ground making the world a better place one client at a time. And it's just so inspiring to be around people that are doing work that they're truly called to do, and that's really in \[00:03:00\] alignment with their own purpose. So I get it. **Adam:** Well, you know, it was interesting because my father passed in 2019. And as I was speaking his eulogy, I looked over the crowd, and there's 400 or 500 people there, and I saw athletes, I saw other coaches, I saw parents, I saw \[00:03:15\] just a whole group of people. And what I realized was, whoa, this is kind of one of those, hey, write your life story, write what someone's gonna read about you when you die. **Adam:** He was in his 60s, and he died from Parkinson's-related issues. And I thought to myself, "This is what \[00:03:30\] John has been trying to tell me all these years, is you can have success and/or you can have significance. But you can't just have success, because it's a dead end. You will hit the end of the road with success. **Adam:** Success has a start and a stop. \[00:03:45\] Significance though," Adam, he would say, "is something that's finite. You can go create a legacy around significance." Because what does legacy need? Its root word is legs, and so it needs legs, it needs people, it needs momentum to keep going. He \[00:04:00\] says, "Now, don't get me wrong." **Adam:** He says, "Success and significance can go hand in hand, but if you step into a space of wanting to have significance to help other people, to go have significance, success will follow." **Kris:** Yeah. I get that. Yeah, really kind of heart-driven. \[00:04:15\] **Adam:** Yeah. Yeah. Calling, right? Yeah. It's the calling. And it's what are you feeling called to do? **Adam:** And I say this in keynote speeches all the time, is we all have success in past containers. I call them containers, right? And though sometimes sitting in those containers \[00:04:30\] we're going, "Whoa, I'm having success, but there's an itch over there that I don't know why I need to scratch it," right? **Adam:** And sometimes we say the grass isn't always greener on the other side, but I've had that itch now two or three times in my life, and every time I scratch it, significance shows up even \[00:04:45\] greater. **Adam:** Right? I mean, I can go all the way back to my 20s when I was a tennis pro in Beverly Hills. It was fantastic. **Adam:** I owned part of the company. Why would anyone wanna get out of that role? But something was itching me, right? Something continued to itch me. And then I got into the real \[00:05:00\] estate business, and I got into business brokerage ownership, and it was great. Lifestyle was great. We had a SaaS company. We had a software company. **Adam:** Lifestyle was fantastic, but there was still another itch. And sometimes we don't scratch that itch for fear of \[00:05:15\] what? Of losing the success, or having to restart or start over, and there's many things that happen along those ways. And gosh, I just love talking to people who actually take that leap of faith, because sometimes you just gotta jump the fence. **Kris:** Totally. Yeah, I \[00:05:30\] mean, I think those little nudges or those itches are there as a guide for us to follow. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there. And there are all kinds of ways to dip your toe into that itch without, you know, quitting your job or \[00:05:45\] completely abandoning your current income. So tell me a story about a client of yours that was doing one thing and had an itch and followed it, and what happened? **Adam:** Oh, I have such a great story here. So \[00:06:00\] 2021, so mind you, in 2019, I had three brokerage franchises that I owned. We had an incredible software company that was running, and when my father passed, I had an \[00:06:15\] itch, right? **Adam:** We call it the beach chair moment. So I came back here to Charleston. I sat on the beach and I was a spiritual guy, so I took my Bible, took my journal, and sat there, prayed, cried more, and kept sunscreen on my bald head and just was like, "Tell me, where do I go next," right? And I had many, many things come to me in \[00:06:30\] that time. **Adam:** And so I sold everything. I sold everything, right? So I was not dipping my toe. I was jumping the fence, and I didn't know what was on the other side of it, but I knew I needed to surround myself with different people. So I started in the simple one-on-one \[00:06:45\] coaching space, very simply, and we call it the proximity space, right? **Adam:** So when you're launching your business, proximity is gonna be the fastest way for you to keep the lights on. That's what we say, "Let's just keep the lights on before you go into your process or your peers," the other two Ps. And I \[00:07:00\] realized that during COVID that poor people were a little messy, right? **Adam:** Their lives were a little bit messy. And so I thought to myself, it's towards the end of the year, I'm gonna throw, instead of a business planning clinic, I'm gonna throw a whole life \[00:07:15\] planning event. Now, COVID had kinda shut everything down, but here in Charleston, they kept some things open. And I knew a guy who had just sold a commercial real estate property on the water here, and it literally was falling into the water. **Adam:** But I said, "Hey, do you mind if I use your place?" And he's like, "No, go ahead and use it. \[00:07:30\] Just if you fall in, just don't blame me." I was like, "Okay, fine." So I had about 30 people come to it, and it was fantastic. We had different speakers in different genres, and I did that event for seven years in a row, to the point where John Maxwell was coming to these events, and I had some of the who's who really coming to these events. \[00:07:45\] **Adam:** Okay, so my answer to the question. So in 2021, I'm running one of these events, and I was working with a guy in the mortgage space at that time because he wanted me to help him build his mortgage business. And he was sitting in the front of the room. He came to the event. It's called the Whole Life Planning Summit. \[00:08:00\] **Adam:** And he taps me afterwards. He had an itch. And he said, "Hey, I wanna do what those speakers are doing." Now, he's a big guy, probably 6'4". He has one arm, right? So he came from a troubled background. He says, "I wanna do what those guys are doing." \[00:08:15\] I said, "Okay. What do you wanna do?" **Adam:** And he said, "I wanna speak." I said, "What do you wanna speak on?" He says, "I don't know yet, but I'm feeling called towards it." I said, "Unfortunately, I already have all of my speakers booked for next year, but if someone backs out, I'll tap you." He says, "Okay." I said, "Well, what do you wanna speak on?" **Adam:** He says, "I don't know, but I wanna do it." \[00:08:30\] Now, mind you, these were big events. I mean, people were paying serious money to come to these events. And so 2021 comes, and kid you not, literally a little blip in the universe happened, and there was a hurricane \[00:08:45\] coming through Florida which stopped one of my speakers from coming, and it was 48 hours before my event, and I was like, "Uh-oh." **Adam:** I was like, "Oh, remember." And so I tapped him. I said, "Hey, if you're ready, it's game time." And he says, "Okay, I'll be ready." So he shows up. He does a good \[00:09:00\] job. Bless his heart, he had a North Carolina color blue suit on, and he was sweating through that thing, and he's not a little man, so everyone could see he was a little nervous. **Adam:** He gets offstage, and Kris, he says this to me: "That was it. \[00:09:15\] That's what I wanna do." I was like, "What do you wanna do?" He says, "I wanna keynote speak. I wanna do this." And I'm thinking to myself, "You were awful. You shouldn't do this." But he really wasn't awful. He did a good job. We had about 275 people at that one event. **Adam:** And so, you know, he had made an \[00:09:30\] impact. I said, "Okay, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go write 10 names down of people that you think that you wanna be like in that space and we'll have a conversation." So he comes to the next coaching call, and he made a list. But he made a list of, like, A+ people. **Adam:** Ed Mylett, \[00:09:45\] Nick Saban, John Maxwell, Dan Martell, and he's listened to all these people. I says, "Okay, great. What are you gonna do to introduce yourself to these people?" He says, "Well, I'm gonna learn from them." "Great. What are you gonna do?" He says, "Well, I realized, I went on their social media, I looked them up, most of them like Jordans," \[00:10:00\] like the shoes. **Adam:** I said, "Okay, great. What are you gonna do?" He says, "Well, I'm gonna send them all one shoe with a note inside that says, 'If you give me 15 minutes of your time, I'll send you the other shoe.'" And I'm thinking to myself, "What have I got myself into with this guy?" \[00:10:15\] And he does it. Now, here was the cool part. **Adam:** At that time, I was personally coaching with Dan Martell. He was my coach. And I'm up in Kelowna, British Columbia, and I'm telling him this story, and he's like, "Wait." And I said, "What?" And he goes, "I just got \[00:10:30\] one of those shoes in the mail." I said, "You did? What'd you do with it?" He goes, "I sent it back. **Adam:** I don't even like Jordans." I was like, "Wait, wait. Stop, stop. The guy's with me. Will you just give him 15 minutes of your time?" He said yes. Okay. So fast-forward now. It's 2026, and this was 2021, 2022. He sold his \[00:10:45\] mortgage company. He sold his mortgage company. He went full time into the speaking. He is now, quote-unquote, "an adversity expert," right? **Adam:** He's done a TED Talk. He's published a book on the one Jordan, how to connect with high performing individuals, that is an \[00:11:00\] international bestseller now. And not only does he do keynote speaking, he now coaches in the adversity space on how to overcome adversity. He has a group. He has one-on-one clients, and he's doing incredible. **Adam:** And we led him all the way \[00:11:15\] through that process because he was just a mortgage guy. That's all he knew, but he got an itch. He stepped into it, and he's now literally impacting the world. **Kris:** How did he navigate and figure out his niche for \[00:11:30\] adversity? And, like, how did that unfold? **Kris:** Because I think that's one of the biggest things that people hit, like, exactly what you asked. Like, what are you gonna talk about? And you have to start somewhere, even though you know it's very likely you're gonna \[00:11:45\] pivot and, I like to think of it more like sailing, or like continuing to hone, hone, hone, hone. **Kris:** And I'm curious, like, how he landed there. Like, what did he initially talk about and then... **Adam:** Well, you've probably experienced this before with maybe coaches that you've \[00:12:00\] served or worked with, is when a coach comes into the coaching world or the serving world, or whatever you wanna call it, they usually bring their last container that they were in as their expertise, right? **Adam:** So in his case, it was the mortgage world. So when he got up to give his first \[00:12:15\] keynote, it was about money, right? It was about the understanding of money. And I could sense that he was loving the speaking, but that was not really what his calling was. And so as we started to develop \[00:12:30\] this identity, because that's what it really is, we are usually inauthentic around our true natural self when we step into the coaching space, because we think our value add comes from the last container that we were in. **Adam:** \[00:12:45\] And that's not true. It is partially true, but that's not your identity, right? What is your identity? We have an equation that we use, that we go through it to help identify that identity, but what we have to identify first is what is your pose? Because we all have a pose, \[00:13:00\] right? And his pose was, "I'm successful. **Adam:** I'm a performance-driven dude. I have one arm, but I'm also 6'5" and I can steamroll you if I need to." And I was like, "Okay, that's not going to last, and you're definitely not gonna attract people with that." Now, excuse the \[00:13:15\] language, but I was like, "Dude, you need to use that one-arm stuff more," right? And he's like, "What do you mean?" **Kris:** When you use the word pose, what do you mean by that? **Adam:** So we are in a position where we think we need to be something that we're not. **Adam:** Right? \[00:13:30\] We think we need to be, in his language, his pose was, "I need to be the best mortgage coach that I can be, because I've been in that space for the last 12 years. **Adam:** I own my own business. We did millions of dollars in sales," and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? **Adam:** But that \[00:13:45\] wasn't his real identity where he could serve people. Where he could serve people was, "I was born from a heroin addict mother," right? "I am 6'5"." He calls it a limb difference. "I have a limb difference." **Adam:** "And I will \[00:14:00\] achieve and succeed at anything and all things that I do." And so what he realized was his entire life he had fought adversity, right? Whether that was playing baseball or whether that was being a kid with one arm growing up or whether that was selling \[00:14:15\] cars, he had always overcome adversity. **Adam:** And so he has this incredible TED Talk speech now, and visual, where he has what's called the adversity backpack theory, that we all carry an adversity backpack. The question is, what do we keep inside that \[00:14:30\] backpack that'll either help us or become an anchor? **Adam:** And it's really powerful. Really, really powerful. So what did he do, though? He had to step into this space of who is he really, right? Who is he really and who does he really want to serve? Because as \[00:14:45\] Rory Vaden says it so powerfully, we're most powerfully positioned to serve the person who we used to be, right? And that is so true. **Adam:** That's not the container that you just came from. Because we all have unique, powerfully positioned to be the person, or to serve the person we used to be. We all have so many \[00:15:00\] problem solution cycles, as I call them, that we can serve so many people with. The question is, which ones do you have passion around that you wanna go help other people and coach them through? **Adam:** And that's what he did. He found his passion in the space of adversity. He found his passion in watching people, as he was \[00:15:15\] coaching them, overcome and achieve whatever they desired, and he just stepped in that lane. Oh, I just love the guy. **Kris:** Does it, many times, does finding that purpose go back to your childhood? **Adam:** So the equation that we \[00:15:30\] use is answering that question yes, right? And this is deep work. And what I mean by deep work is any coach that comes into our community, no one works for Adam Roach, no one works for the company. We are a community of coaching. \[00:15:45\] It is a community. **Adam:** And we have a framework that we use, and it's called the blueprint, the REAL Coaching Blueprint. And again, not arrogant, relevant, experiential, authentic leader. And phase one is going in before you go out. And so that \[00:16:00\] equation that we work on is, to answer your question, you've gotta identify your wound. **Adam:** That's step number one. Right? Inside of that equation, the W is wound. The next letter is L for lie. This is the lie you've told yourself. **Adam:** The third letter is V or vow. V-O-W. So it goes wound, what was your wound? What was the lie? What was the vow? So W plus L plus V equals pose. **Kris:** But the pose is what you don't wanna be. The pose is kinda the fake version of you, the poser version, right? **Adam:** That's right, because you are posing to cover up your lie. **Adam:** I'll give you an example. This was mine. \[00:16:45\] So when I went through this, I was at an event, a big kinda like a men's hike of sorts. **Adam:** And my facilitator that was helping me through this was like, "Okay, because we're gonna talk about your dad." And I love my dad. And gosh, what a great role model he \[00:17:00\] was. But he said, "Let me ask you a question. Was he a passive dad or an active dad?" I said, "Well, I don't think I understand the difference." **Adam:** And he says, "Well, passive dad, as it comes to being the leader, is someone that just kinda leads by example. An active dad is like, 'Sit down, son, let me tell you something.'" \[00:17:15\] Right? It's like, okay, my dad was definitely a passive dad. "Okay, cool. And where did your dad get his validation from?" he asked me. **Adam:** I was like, "I don't think I understand that question again." He said, "Well, was it through the family? Was it through the church? Was it through his accomplishments?" I was like, "Oh, definitely his accomplishments." He said, "What would make you say that?" I said, "Because you couldn't go into my dad's office \[00:17:30\] and not see five, six, seven, 10, 12 magazine covers that he had been on, or the big old hall of fame of coaching, or the hall of fame of water skiing, right? **Adam:** This was my dad." And he's like, "Oh, okay, good." I was like, "Yeah, it was really cool." He said, "But what lie did you tell yourself about that?" It's like, oh, I had to sit \[00:17:45\] with it for a second, because I didn't know. But I did. And I had created this lie, Kris, that was I was inadequate. I couldn't live up to that. **Adam:** Right? Now, it was self-imposed. He didn't come down and say, "Son, you'll never be as good as me." No, he never said that. But it was something that \[00:18:00\] I looked at, that I strived to want to be, but boy, I was setting myself up, because that's not where I was. I wasn't in that lane. So the vow that I created, Kris, was, "I will win at everything. **Adam:** I will accomplish. I will seek. I will destroy. I will just go \[00:18:15\] get it done." And the pose that I created was I was performance-driven. That was it. **Adam:** I was 100% performance-driven. And I sold it my entire life. That's when John had to say, "Dude, you are success-driven." **Adam:** I was like, "Yeah, of course I \[00:18:30\] am." **Adam:** "That's not who you are. You are significant. You bring value to people. It's okay to have success and significance, but you better have them both together." **Adam:** I was like, "Ooh, thanks for being that coach, coach." **Kris:** Gosh. Can you \[00:18:45\] imagine, like, what a difference that conversation would make in your 30s, 40s, or 50s, versus in your very elderly years, right? **Kris:** Because people take that \[00:19:00\] on, and unless somebody actively helps them unravel that, you just keep on going with that whole thinking. **Adam:** And something feels off. Our listeners to this right now, Kris, know that something feels off. **Adam:** Something feels off. And that's \[00:19:15\] probably part of it. **Kris:** And so after you had that conversation with him, you had a light bulb go off. You had an awareness. You were able to see what you couldn't see before. **Kris:** And just that, I think, is the beginning \[00:19:30\] of unraveling that. What do you do next after that? How do you unwind that whole belief structure? **Kris:** Because it informs every area of your life and probably every relationship too. **Adam:** Well, I had to come \[00:19:45\] back, because when I looked at the white paper that I wrote for my community, was, you know, to have such a large amount of coaches to strive for this greatness, to be on this magazine cover. **Adam:** I actually wrote that in the white paper. I was like, "Well, nope, that's not what we're \[00:20:00\] gonna do. That's not what we're going to do. We're not gonna go turn on the ad machine and attract every Tom, Dick, and Sally out there. We're going to find those who we can serve." Right? This is not gonna be something that I'm going to \[00:20:15\] build and then exit. **Adam:** You know, I've done that in the past. This is something that I want to build. And so I built the vision statement for the community around that, and that is to empower coaches. That's not just me. That's the entire co-op. I mean, \[00:20:30\] that's all the coaches that are inside there, is to empower each other. **Adam:** So to empower coaches to change and serve 100 million people. Now, where did that number come from? That was part of my beach chair, right? That was part of my beach chair moment where, again, being a spiritual guy, God laid that upon me. \[00:20:45\] And it's funny because I went home and I went to my pastor and I was like, "Hey, these are the things that I'm hearing, and this number." **Adam:** I was like, "Do you think he wants me to make $100 million?" No, that's probably not what he's asking you to do. But that truly is the vision statement, to empower coaches to change and serve 100 million people through the REAL Coach method. \[00:21:00\] And Kris, it's happening. Right? We've been blessed to be on four continents now. **Adam:** I don't know how we're going to measure the 100 million, and quite frankly, I don't care, because that's not what I'm focused on. I'm focused on finding the right who. So when you unravel that, \[00:21:15\] what it starts to do is expose really something that has nothing to do with any outside environment, but you're feeling from the inside. **Adam:** And when you find someone who finds that on the inside, his Instagram account went from like, I don't know, \[00:21:30\] 2,000 followers to I think he's probably... I don't know where he is right now, but he's probably approaching 100,000 followers simply because his message lands with those that he intends to serve. **Kris:** Right. Yeah. \[00:21:45\] Yeah, yeah, it's so true. I think all coaches and consultants really, that's the underlying intention. But sometimes it can get clouded up by upbringing, beliefs, drive, whatever. So \[00:22:00\] I'm curious, because you started out with one-on-one coaching. **Kris:** When you got into this work, you did one-on-one coaching. Do you still do one-on-one coaching or, my bigger question is, like, how did you transition from one-on-one to maybe group to \[00:22:15\] community? How did that all unfold? **Adam:** Yeah, great question. Well, I'll share with you my belief system around this, is as what I've written inside of this blueprint, which by the way, I don't know if this is a video podcast or an audio, but I mean, this is \[00:22:30\] version eight of it right here, so it is a consistent... I mean, I'm just constantly breaking it and building it and breaking it and building it. Because what I've watched is, after they go through phase one, which is the inside out phase, we take them into phase two. \[00:22:45\] **Adam:** Some people are leaving survivor jobs and wanting to go into the coaching space. Okay, great. So what I suggest they do in phase two is let's go find, when you identify your own unique problem solution cycle, \[00:23:00\] we help you identify what's called your payoff, okay? Because here's the thing, no one cares about Adam, no one cares about Kris. **Adam:** They care about themselves and getting to the desired outcome that they want to, and if our problem solution cycle can fix that, great. So the one-on-one space in phase two, what we say is let's just go find 10 \[00:23:15\] one-on-ones. You can charge them whatever you want to. We'll suggest you charge them $1,500 for the month, and that'll get you to $15,000 a month. **Adam:** That'll get you $180,000 of ARR, and that should keep your lights on. But that's not your business, right? That's just a sustainable approach to start. \[00:23:30\] But once you're inside of that one-on-one space, hopefully your avatar is similar, right? So you're not gonna teach someone how to be a painter and you're not gonna teach someone how to be a mechanic, right? **Adam:** That's two different avatars. We don't wanna play in that space. Right. \[00:23:45\] What we wanna play in is what can you develop with your one-on-ones into what we call a process? Because the process will eventually identify the payoff that your soon-to-be avatars will pay for. \[00:24:00\] And we call it the 1/10th rule, and I'll get to that in a second. **Adam:** So once we identify, as you're going through phase two, that you now have a cash flow that is sustainable for you to keep your lights on so you don't have to go get another survivor job, we can now move you into phase three. \[00:24:15\] So phase three is the one-to-many approach. **Adam:** Some people call it group coaching, but here's what I like to identify, is as I'm building my process through my one-on-ones, we call it the book. I know that in my one-on-ones, \[00:24:30\] they get my entire book. But as I build a one to many, they only get a chapter, okay? And that chapter is gonna lead them to wanting what? **Adam:** The book. So as I go from \[00:24:45\] one-to-one to one-to-many, and only teach them a chapter at a time, there are some people that will want what we call compression of time. Compression of time means I want the whole book now. I don't wanna have to wait for another cohort. I don't wanna have to wait for something else to get the next chapter. **Adam:** I want that chapter \[00:25:00\] now. Great. Those people come back up to what we call your proximity, right? That's one-to-one. But now that they know you have value in this chapter, they want the whole book. If you started at 1,500, now you can go to 3,000, 5,000, 10,000. Whatever the \[00:25:15\] defined payoff is, you can charge 1/10th. **Adam:** So if I came to you, Kris, and said, "Hey, I have a process, and you're in my one-to-many, that'll get you from zero to a million dollars. Here's the path. Here's the process," and you want that million \[00:25:30\] dollars, you will definitely pay $100,000 for it. That's the way it works. So you will get me proximity. When people come to you after the one-to-many, you should be expensive. **Adam:** But expensive is relative because it's attached to your payoff. Most people, let me rephrase this, \[00:25:45\] I have watched coaches step into the coaching space and say, "I'm for sale." I'm like, nope, you're thinking like an employee. Your payoff is for sale, and you better know what the payoff can get somebody, either opportunity gain or opportunity lost cost. **Adam:** And with that, you can charge \[00:26:00\] 1/10th. And we have watched people just skyrocket. Skyrocket. **Kris:** How do you calculate the original number? Like, if it isn't business or income related, how do you... Like, if someone's \[00:26:15\] losing weight or doing some other type of coaching that's not related to a number. **Adam:** Well, you can take the fitness space or the nutrition space or even, like, the divorce space, right? I've been divorced, and I know the cost that it cost me to go through that divorce, right? \[00:26:30\] And if there was a divorce coach, which by the way, post that divorce, I have remarried. **Adam:** It was five, six years later, but I did hire a relationship coach first, because I knew how much that first one cost me, and I was not gonna do that again, right? **Kris:** Yeah. I just \[00:26:45\] finished working with a divorce coach. It's such a great niche. **Adam:** Because I don't know what the average divorce costs, but let's just throw it at a million dollars. **Adam:** I don't know, \[00:27:00\] every state's gonna be different, everybody's net worth is different. Mine cost me $2 million, okay? **Adam:** Had I had a coach in that space, I would have easily probably paid them 200,000 to save me two million over a 10-year period. **Adam:** Right? Let's go into the \[00:27:15\] fitness and nutrition space. I've seen people die of obesity. I've seen people who don't take care of themselves not be on this planet anymore, and I've seen the costs that are associated with that. When my father passed from Parkinson's-related issues, gosh, I would have paid any amount of money for him not \[00:27:30\] to have to go through that seven years of horrific pain. **Adam:** And so the opportunity lost cost there is if you don't hire me, you'll pay it that way. **Adam:** So there's always \[00:27:45\] ways to put a number around it, and sometimes it doesn't have to be a number. It can be just that, right? "Great. If you don't lose weight, here's what's going to happen." **Adam:** That bill, this emergency room, that funeral, all \[00:28:00\] that's probably gonna cost you a million dollars. Great. So opportunity lost is a million dollars, otherwise we get into coaching. **Adam:** But most coaches do. They will put a price tag on themselves, which means that they are the value. **Adam:** You are \[00:28:15\] not the value. You are the conduit to the payoff. **Kris:** Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they care about what they get. They don't really care how they get it, right? They just want that happy end result, and if you can deliver that, then... And how \[00:28:30\] much is the problem worth solving, right? **Adam:** Well, here's the fun part. So I've had people challenge me a lot in the space of the coaching space is so saturated. Cool. \[00:28:45\] Okay. What's your point? Well, I could never make money in that space, because there's so many real estate coaches, there's so many life coaches, there's so many fill-in-the-blank coaches. **Adam:** Okay, and you may not be wrong. But here's what will change that. Kris, you and I could be in \[00:29:00\] the same space where we coach coaches. Fantastic. You may have and I may have a similar payoff that the coaches want. Fantastic. That's P number one is payoff. P number two is premise. My belief around that payoff and how to get to that payoff \[00:29:15\] may be different than yours, and you will attract a specific avatar to your belief, your worldly views on your premise of that payoff, which are different than mine. **Adam:** Our methodology or practice, could be the third P, may be the same, but if our belief system \[00:29:30\] is different, if our universal view or vantage point of that process is different, that's how we will attract different avatars. **Adam:** And I see that all the time, all the time. We have coaches in our community that are \[00:29:45\] business-based coaches. **Adam:** Some are in real estate, some are in mortgage, some are in, oh, let's see here. We've got a W-2 coach in there. It's fascinating. Shapes, colors, and sizes, all different. And they're like, "Oh my gosh, how many real estate coaches do you have in the community?" I don't know. "Well, \[00:30:00\] I want to be the only one." **Adam:** Mm, that's not gonna happen and here's why. And it doesn't matter. It's the belief systems that matter. **Adam:** Right? Right. And the world needs to know it too. **Kris:** How do you identify what your belief system is \[00:30:15\] for that piece? And then if you want to change it, how do you change it? **Adam:** So I'll give an example, and this is just my belief in the coaching space. **Adam:** I don't believe that certifications will make you any more money. **Adam:** I don't believe that certifications... \[00:30:30\] **Adam:** I don't believe that certifications will help you build a business, and yet I see coaches going to get certified before they have a business. **Adam:** And they're like, "Oh my gosh, what do I do now? I am XYZ certified, and it cost me $30,000. Help, help, help." And I'm like, "I don't believe in \[00:30:45\] certifications." Right? So if you wanna go get certified, more power to you. That's not going to be the process that I'm gonna take you down. **Adam:** Right? So you've gotta just understand, this goes back to your identity, of where do you have backbone? **Adam:** Where do you \[00:31:00\] have a foot planted into the ground that says, "This is what I believe"? And if you don't, that's okay. You probably better go develop some though. **Adam:** I don't believe in coaching-dependent models. I don't believe that someone who is coaching should \[00:31:15\] give half of their money back. **Adam:** Because if you can't stand on your own two feet and you can't go out there and go get clients based on your own problem solution cycle, okay, that's fine. You just won't fit into my world. **Adam:** You're not my avatar. \[00:31:30\] Those are my beliefs. **Kris:** Yeah. Well, I think for a lot of people, it can be easy to fall into, like, a scarcity belief around either money or that the market is saturated. And \[00:31:45\] so I guess my question is, once you identify that you have a belief that's actually not serving you, that's actually kinda bringing you down or keeping you \[00:32:00\] flat or keeping you stuck, is it really simple just to change that, or do you have an approach to that? **Adam:** So are you familiar with the Johari window model? **Kris:** I am not, but I'm a big \[00:32:15\] Brooke Castillo person. And I love her model of, you know, circumstance, thought. **Adam:** Well, I believe, so the way that they broke this model down was really, really good. And there's four quadrants, and the top left quadrant is the open and free area, right? And so the open and free area is you know this about me, and \[00:32:30\] I know this about myself, and so everyone knows this about us. To the right, the top right, that is the blind spot, and the blind spot is I don't know this about myself, and yet you know this about me. **Adam:** And the idea there is if I \[00:32:45\] want to have my blind spot exposed, "Kris, tell me something that I need to know about myself that I don't know," or "Kris, when I'm in the room, how do I make you feel?" Or, "On the other side of me, what do you feel?" Right? So that's the blind spot. And when you share that back with me, now my open \[00:33:00\] area gets a little bit bigger. **Adam:** Now, the bottom left quadrant is the hidden area. This is I know it about myself, but you don't know it about me. **Adam:** And the only way to expose that is to tell it, right? **Adam:** Is to fully share what that is. I was on a \[00:33:15\] call earlier today with a group that I belong to called High Capacity Leadership. **Adam:** It's a John Maxwell group. And there was a man who was leading it who I know dearly, and I knew the story, but there was about 60 or 70 people on there, and he just finished writing a book. And he went into a hidden area. \[00:33:30\] And I think he's probably in his late 40s, early 50s, but there was an accident when he was 14, and he killed his three-year-old brother. **Adam:** And of those people on the call, there was probably a handful of us that knew the story, but he went into a \[00:33:45\] hidden area, opened it up by sharing, and so now his open area got a little bit bigger. Okay. And in the bottom right corner is the unknown. And it's, "I don't know about myself, and you don't know it about me." **Adam:** And the silly example I always give there is, "Kris, do you like \[00:34:00\] sushi? You don't know? I don't know if you like sushi. Let's go have sushi, and let's see if you like sushi." Right? And so that is the unknown area. So that's a model that I always use to help people expose a little bit at a time, to get a little window feedback, right? **Adam:** That's a blind spot. Because \[00:34:15\] so many of us all day long hear our voice, see what's in front of us, and if we're on a screen, we can see ourselves, but we look in the mirror 90% of the time, and this is the perception of us through our own lens, not through your lens. **Kris:** Got it. And so through that process, you can identify if there's a belief or a thought or maybe more of a behavior that you wanna shift or change. \[00:34:45\] **Adam:** Yeah. Let me share one here with you that just happened right before our call. I'll give you the language. "I have been so scared that I'm a burden and bothersome. **Adam:** And I'm afraid of rejection." \[00:35:00\] Okay? So that's a little hidden area that they're sharing. Great. Okay. So we're opening that up a little bit. So then I had to go into some blind spot sharing to pull back her mirror and open it up through a window, and share \[00:35:15\] with this coach what really is going on through the lens of me looking at her versus her projecting it onto me. **Adam:** And here's the thing. This person already had nearly 100 people in a community. 100 people in a community. That's a great \[00:35:30\] one-to-many approach business. **Adam:** And it was doing just south of about $100,000, which was fantastic, and yet this person was a little worried of being burdensome or bothersome when it came time to offering, she had three spots left in her \[00:35:45\] one-on-one coaching, of offering it to that group of 100. **Adam:** She didn't want them to think that they were being sold something. **Adam:** And there's a whole other podcast called Confirmation Bias, and we can go into that one another time, but that was something that she had, a wound she hadn't identified \[00:36:00\] yet. She was living a lie, that I just need to sit back and not bother anybody. **Adam:** And so the way that I'm going to do that is be patient. Right? My pose is I'm gonna be patient. My pose is I'm just gonna be simple. **Adam:** Right? That \[00:36:15\] was a pose. She was giving me a pose right there. We had to uncover that. **Kris:** Right. Yeah. Wow. It's such deep and powerful work that you do. **Kris:** So Adam, tell us how we can find you, work with you, be a part of the community. **Adam:** Sure. \[00:36:30\] So just go to my Instagram, Adam R. Roach. There's two Rs there in the middle. And what you'll see on there is you won't see a lot of the coaching language that we use right here because, for me, I love my family. **Adam:** I love my life. I'm just blessed by all the things that \[00:36:45\] we get to do, so it's a very lifestyle-based Instagram. And you'll see on there how you can engage with me and how you can be a part of the community. If you wanna go see the community, it's just ilovecoachingco.com. And inside of there, we have a challenge. **Adam:** We do a challenge \[00:37:00\] every single month, and that's an offer challenge, right? A 10K coaching offer challenge that we believe one of the biggest areas for coaches, whether they are starting to be a coach or continuing to expand their coaching business, is the offer space, right? They don't know how to build the actual \[00:37:15\] offer around the who, what, where, when and why. **Adam:** And then we have the community in there, and the community was created simply because, a little selfishly, I love being around people. And in the same breath, though, I know that people want two things. They want, number one, content, and content to grow, content to \[00:37:30\] build, and that's our blueprint. **Adam:** And in the same breath, I know that people don't like to build in silos, and so we established the community. And like I said, we've now been blessed to serve coaches on four continents. Don't know how that happened. I just know that, you know, \[00:37:45\] sometimes the unexplained is just a blessing and we go along with it, and it's just a lot of fun. **Adam:** We have so much fun in that community. I hold three events a year, we call them intensives, where we're coaching through the blueprint, specific models for them to go and \[00:38:00\] run play when they get back to wherever they are. We get together once a week in the community, and whether myself or a part of my team or a special guest comes in, whether it's a John Maxwell or a Dan Martell of the world, and we just bring value to coaches. **Adam:** And that's what I love to do. So that's where they can go find me, Adam R. \[00:38:15\] Roach, or they can go to ilovecoachingco.com and just learn more about us. **Kris:** Wonderful. Well, I'm really happy that you scratched that itch to become a coach and sold everything. So congratulations. **Kris:** I'll definitely be checking you out, so thanks so much for being here. **Adam:** Thank you, Kris. Thank you for having me. \[00:38:30\] *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Why the expertise from your last career is the wrong thing to lead with - The wound, lie, and vow equation that produces the version of you your marketing is stuck on - How to price against what the result is worth to your client instead of against your hours - Payoff, premise, practice, and why belief is what separates you in a crowded market - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/build-a-community-that-markets-for-you ### Title: How to Build a Community That Markets for You, with David Homan ### Page ID: 9834613 ### Content: # How to Build a Community That Markets for You ## About This Episode ## What You'll Walk Away With ## Questions This Episode Answers ## Meet David Homan ## Connect with Kris Jones ***You'll leave knowing the #1 messaging mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** Why the people who already trust you do more for your business than any pitch, and what it takes to turn that into something intentional. How to Build a Community That Markets for You, with David Homan Building a community sounds like one more thing to manage. Another platform, another group, another reason to be online when you already have enough to do. So most coaches and consultants file the idea away and go back to producing content for strangers. David Homan runs a private network of connectors, and when I told him I do not have a community, he disagreed. I have listeners. I have clients who show up to Friday office hours and start reading each other's blind spots before I can say a word. His point is that almost nobody starts from scratch, they only think they do. The work is making what already exists intentional. We get into why the ask is where most people fail, how one specific introduction changed two businesses at once, and the exact format he uses to run virtual events that people actually want to attend. If you have been treating client attraction as a volume problem, this conversation offers a different way in that does not require a bigger audience or a new platform. How do you build a community for your business without starting from scratch? Why is it so hard to ask your network for what you need? How do you get clients without pitching? What makes a virtual networking event worth attending? "You already have a community. It's whether you wanna take that and make it more intentional and purposeful." David Homan is the founder and CEO of Orchestrated Connecting, a global community of connectors, and of SOAR CONNECT, a startup built on the strength of authentic relationships. He hosts a podcast called Orchestrated, is an active classical composer, and is a proud father of two. From middle-class beginnings as the son of a college professor, he has built a network reaching into some of the most private circles in the world while holding to a code of purposeful community building. [**Visit David's Website**](https://davidhoman.com) [**Connect on LinkedIn**](https://linkedin.com/in/davidrhoman) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/the_connection_orchestrator) Kris Jones is the founder of Red Door Stories, a Certified StoryBrand Guide, and a messaging strategist who helps service providers, coaches, and consultants clarify their marketing message so they can attract consistent clients. Her core belief: simplicity is a strategic advantage. Less noise, clearer message, more traction. [**Book a Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/) [**Grab the Free StoryBrand Soundbites Toolkit**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/free-resources) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/reddoorstory) [**Subscribe to Kris's YouTube Channel and Learn How to Attract More Clients**](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp2qSBrlNsDU7KTGZV74o0w/) **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] I am very thrilled to introduce you to David Homan today. He is the founder of Orchestrated Connecting. And David's out of New York City, so we're on opposite sides of the country, and he's all about how to build community and how to make the world a better place. I can't wait to get into this episode. David, welcome. **David:** \[00:00:25\] Thank you, Kris. It's such a pleasure to be here. **Kris:** \[00:00:28\] So tell us a little bit about what you do. **David:** \[00:00:31\] So I do one thing really well in life. I figure out how to get out of the way so two people that should trust each other begin a relationship, and I watch the ripple effect that comes from it, not only for those people to each other, but to all the trusted people in their life. And that's what I built from my community, which is a private network of connectors. **Kris:** \[00:00:54\] And how did you end up here? Did-- Do you have a background in orchestra? Is that part of where the name came from? **David:** \[00:01:02\] I'm a classical composer and pianist, and since most people have never met a living composer, maybe you could say you've met one as of today. but if somebody goes on, says to Alexa, "Play the music of David Homan," I have hours and hours of music you can listen to. And as I was in my late twenties and trying to figure out what my world was from running a large arts foundation, but being an executive and a business leader as well, I realized that the same way I was trying to compose a piece of music to find the right, quote, "resonance" for people was the same thing when I make an introduction and figure out that wavelength that people should be on together. **Kris:** \[00:01:41\] That's why you've got the wavelength in the background of your- **David:** \[00:01:45\] Exactly. Yeah. It took forty different cover designs for my friend Jason to finally come up with one that we thought worked. Um, and then of course, a close friend was like: "Listen, but it looks like it's just going straight in one ear and out the other." And I said, "Well, I can't change that now." **Kris:** \[00:02:01\] I love it. So essentially, two people that are vibrating at the same frequency. And if you're listening, David has kind of a, a waveform graphic behind his head. So if, somebody plays a piano key on one side of the room, that same note on the other side of the room of the piano will start to vibrate. Is that true? **David:** \[00:02:25\] yes. Um, everything in the acoustics of music is the same way for people who aren't musical. Think about when you throw a rock in a pond, and it starts to ripple. And think about if you throw two rocks at different parts of that pond, and the ripples go to each other, and as they hit each other, they actually speed up. It's like your heart starts to flutter when you meet somebody that you feel more of the same energy with. And so eventually it smooths itself out. But as a connector, what you try to do is you try to put two people who are really in parallel paths in front of each other When you do it right, I mean, that's where the, the gimmicky line that AI told me to do years ago, which is make your life a symphony, came from. Yeah. But it's this idea that we are all on these parallel paths, and the thing we have no control over, but full control, is who we spend time with. Yeah. And therefore, the more you can get people to spend time with people that you trust, you could find a sacred way to transfer that trust person to person, a lot comes out of it. So just as an example, a good friend of mine, his name is Jeff. He's an exceptional coach. He's a four-time best-selling author. He's taught billionaires and Olympians. He himself was an Olympian, as well. And one day he said to me, "You know, I, I coach so many people that have done such incredible work, but I haven't actually coached people who are aspiring to be great athletes into them, what they'll be as leaders." And I said, "Okay." And he's thinking, "Who's this guy who's a musician in New York connecting me to people?" And I go, "Listen, a huge amount of my network are current NFL, MLB, hockey, whatever it might be, but they have all the people they mentor to be athletes, but not to become from an athlete into a business owner. Let me connect you with a few players." Sparks flew. these guys, the two that I introduced Jeff to, my friend, have been back and forth for years now supporting each other because it didn't need me. They had similar asks 'cause my friend on the other side said, "I have all these incredible athletes, but once they're done with their career, they wanna be like me, but I'm the only one that I ever played pro ball with that became a successful businessman. Why isn't there more, why aren't there more coaches to help with that transition?" **David:** \[00:04:45\] so these two notes are actually two asks that are complementary to each other. To get somebody to actually say what they need is incredibly hard, and I know this because I have hundreds of coaches in my private community, and they are so incredible saying, "David, here's what you do. Here's how I'd refine it." And I go, "That's great, Kris. What do you need?" And there's silence. They can't do it for themselves the way they do it for others. So the whole point of my network was to get everyone comfortable with making an impact ask. **David:** \[00:05:15\] Your passion, how it's amplified, and then the connections you need. And where people fail is the specificity. Like I had to get Jeff to, just to finish this somewhat long-winded analogy, which I wanna recognize. But Jeff didn't just say to me he needed what he-- that type of person. He said he, he stumbled through it, and I helped him hone it till he finally asked for what I shared, and then instantly there was a connection waiting for him, and that's the work we have to do individually and, and all the groups we're in to be more clear about not just how we would convey our ask, but how somebody would convey it for us. **Kris:** \[00:05:53\] I love that. I talk a lot in my work about the bottle effect, which is this idea that we're all just so close to our, our own self and our own brilliance, that no matter how hard we try, it can be hard to find the right words to talk about what we do, or in your case, what we need. it's really tricky, and it does take somebody to come in. Like we're so close to it, it's like we're inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside. And so- **Kris:** \[00:06:25\] what you're talking about is a community member or a friend or someone else other than you can come in and read the label of your bottle clearly and hone it, right? Or like get the nuggets of what you're getting at and then really bring clarity to it, and then refine it, repackage it in a way that will resonate with other people in the community who are vibrating at that frequency. **David:** \[00:06:52\] All correct. But can I add an and to that? **David:** \[00:06:58\] So if you can transform the people around you to think, oh, Kris has a podcast, she's a coach, she has a community of coaches, all the rest of what you do, and think, okay, well, no one's gonna narrow you down to who you need to meet in Oregon. That's a small enough place and a small enough town. You need a global network for your type of work and the community that you're in. **David:** \[00:07:17\] And so a lot of times people fail to understand that the best advocates for themselves aren't the person itself. What it really is are the people who are in another world, another community, another group, and somebody says something, whether they're eloquent or not, and then your friend says, "You know what, what? I know the right coach for you," or, "I know the right coach for your friend." Because when you do this right, you can create a ripple effect so that people are your champions. And that's why you have to be first clear on your ask, but then you have to be abundantly clear on the type of people you want to meet I'm doing this myself as an exercise for my startup called SorConnect. I've raised two rounds. I'm doing a bridge round. People ask me what type of investors I wanna meet, and the, the question-- the answer you wanna give them all the time is, "People who will invest in me." But what I'm actually saying is, "I'm looking for people who've been at that intersection." They go to a conference, they do a keynote, they meet thousands of people. Their business relies on introductions. And without their admin, without their virtual agent, without their CRM, th-they don't... They know the system doesn't work 'cause somebody doesn't-- they don't connect through LinkedIn. They don't remember the person they met two years ago at a TED conference. There's nothing to capture that. I want people where that's their problem, and they've been trying to find a solution to invest **David:** \[00:08:38\] once you start giving the idea of a specificity, it's actually more freeing than being broad and general. **David:** \[00:08:45\] Cause I'm gonna talk to a hundred investors, and a hundred investors are gonna say no. But if I am introduced to one investor who wanted the conversation with me, I know they'll say yes if what I'm offering is what they've been asking for. I need somebody that I don't know in the middle to pull that out of them and connect them to somebody who trusts me, who then puts me in touch through three links with them. **Kris:** \[00:09:10\] So how did you initially build the community that you've built? And I ask that because I'm genuinely curious, but also I don't have my own community. It's something that I've thought about, and I've also felt like it would be too hard. I just feel like it would complicate my life in a way, and my business. And so I'm literally in the thick of kind of grappling with that idea 'cause I've got this book coming out in the fall, and I wanna be able to serve more people, reach more people, and, um... And so I'm literally teetering on this balance beam of should I jump this way or that way? And so tell me all the things. **David:** \[00:09:56\] Okay. So the things that will make you feel less stressed about this. One, you already have a community. It's whether you wanna take that and make it more intentional and purposeful. That's the task. You have listeners to this podcast. You have people who love and trust you in your life, correct? **David:** \[00:10:16\] So you, like anyone listening, you already have it. And so the difference is when you start to understand that the people you trust most around you are your primary community, do you have the time or do you spend it to ask them what they need? Do you help their kids when their kid needs an introduction? Do you sit with somebody who was a former podcast guest and introduce them to somebody else who was a podcast guest? Because all those actions of putting people in front of each other, that's what a community is and should do. People will tell me they don't have a community, but they have a book club that they join every Friday night. I have a friend who started a divorced women's running group, says she doesn't have a community, but in that group are fifty of the most powerful women athletically and literally, but they've joined as divorced women to run together. So what I need to do is help you or anyone else understand that the frame isn't you have to start from scratch. It's what you do to get there. So my community mostly was formed through mistakes and lots of wasted time. I was fundraising for a nonprofit. Bernie Madoff happened during the housing bubble recession, and we'd lost almost all of our money, and we had to survive. And what I taught, what I'd been taught was traditional networking didn't work. Everyone that I talked to told me no. We're talking hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. **Kris:** \[00:11:42\] And what was your ask? Like, "Do you want to be in my community?" **David:** \[00:11:46\] No. In this case, 'cause I was running a charity, it's, "Do you want to support Israeli arts and culture?" Music, theater, dance, art, design. We have an eighty-year history. we were caught up in a financial disaster, and we're trying to find new donors. And when you're fundraising, everyone tells you no. So I flipped it. The person would say, "No, like I, I really love what you're doing, but this isn't my focus." And instead of saying, "Thank you, I'm gonna go somewhere else now," I would sit with somebody and be like, "Well, well how can I help you?" And this woman said to me, um, "I'm-- I lost my sister and my mother to breast cancer. I've been trying to find the right people to invest in who are trying to solve this massive problem for women." And I just sit with that 'cause I didn't know the right answer. Then three months later, somebody also tells me no, and I tell them, "What are you passionate about?" And they say, "Well, I, I've been funding research into oncology and breast cancer." And I go, "You should meet Lisa." And I just connect them. I don't ask anything. I don't take a cut. 'Cause when people tell you what they actually want, then they tell you what they want. It's the thing that most marketing people want on this planet is what do people want? When somebody tells you no, if they feel obliged or they like you, they'll tell you why. So for five years I did that, and then what I realized is that every room I walked into and everyone I talked to, it was a type of person, which is, who's-- they're now called a connector, but fifteen years ago we didn't use that term. And I looked back at what I'd been doing for five years. I'd mostly been connecting connectors to each other. And the mistake was I assumed they all knew each other So I started with an event, and I, again, I'm a systems thinker, and I go to-- In New York, I go to thousands of events, so I hate how most events work. I hate how most communities work because I don't want a community or an event to feel like I'm in middle school again. I don't wanna walk in and have nobody dancing in the middle of the floor, and me standing on one side, but not with the jocks, and sort of near the theater and music geeks, and all the girls are on the other side in their cliques, and no one feels like they're mingling. I wanted a community where everyone comes in and goes, "Kris, it's great to meet you. How can I help you?" And so I've built a community with an intention of when you come in, you're put in small groups, to my events, virtual or in person. You're a certain psyche, meaning I didn't define for my business community that I wanted my whole network in. My term was I wanted action-oriented natural givers that I would leave my children with. **David:** \[00:14:16\] And when people think about that, and they think of who's the top connector in their world, I get two, maybe three, sometimes five people, but they're high integrity, they're super busy, they're givers, and they have that same mindset as the community I wanted to form. So if you're forming a community of coaches, you're forming a community of authors, you're forming a community of whatever it might be, it does not matter. I mean, I'd rather it isn't, like, a group of neo-Nazis or white supremacists. But the community structure, the focus is: how do you get people to come together to amplify each other? And if you have a reason for people to join that isn't just about you or about them, but something bigger, that's how you start. But you have to understand, you already have a community. What is your why around writing this book that by people responding to it, they will add to it, and collectively you will all be better? **David:** \[00:15:12\] That's the question to answer. And then once you answer that, you have your purpose. **David:** \[00:15:16\] So how can you not build a stronger, more intentional network from that? **Kris:** \[00:15:20\] Right. hearing you talk is very-- It's such a better way to look at and think about community. And when I think about what I would want from my community and what I, what I watch, which is so much fun for me when I have office hours with my clients. So on Fridays, I have office hours. My clients come on there, and usually there's only a handful of people. But typically, I'll get a question or somebody will, will want my feedback, and it's open to everybody. So I'll give my feedback, and then a different client will chime in, "Hey, can I give you my thoughts on that?" And then this dialogue happens between my clients because ultimately It does come down to that bottle effect again and the, the challenge of trying to read that label. And it doesn't matter if it's me or somebody else, it's like anyone outside the bottle can read your label better than you can. And so it would be fun for me to build a community just on that. Like, let's read each other's bottles and bring clarity to our lives. And ultimately, I think the bigger, the bigger purpose is to just keep life as simple as it can possibly be as an entrepreneur or business owner. **David:** \[00:16:45\] So, you know, you take this and you build the Red Door community, and you say, you know, "This is for people to join who are always great at helping others to find their purpose, but struggling with it themselves." We gather together every other Friday for two hours. We come and we feature new members and current members who are struggling with a pivot, with a transition, whether they need a coach or not, and they're gonna tell everyone in five minutes what they think is on their label, and we're gonna spend fifteen minutes responding and helping them think about how they come across to us. And you do that on repeat, which is what I've done now for hundreds of events, and eventually everyone gets the idea, and it's a controlled environment wherein as long as you just keep encouraging, that this is about positive feedback to see yourself the way others see you. And everyone who joins is joining for that express purpose to help other people, which is a part of it. Everyone there knows they cannot be critical and say, "Well, you, you suck. You shouldn't do what you're doing," 'cause it's about positive feedback. But then if you have a cause and effect, which is then everyone who presents a month later has to come back, has to, to stay in the community, to then present how or why this feedback has helped them transform or start the process, then everyone joins to transform how they can see themselves bigger than themselves. They join to help others 'cause they were helped. And since no one is good at it, I'm not good at it for myself. I've had multiple people tear apart everything I do, and I'm a bestselling author, global leader with a startup who just take notes, and half the time I'm like, "Well, why didn't I think of that?" Totally. For instance, playing piano at an event I did not think of. And then I did it, and we filmed it. It became my homepage video. A composer who speaks professionally and convenes people didn't think I should put my music in an event for eight years. **Kris:** \[00:18:51\] Yeah. I watched that video, by the way, and if you're listening, you should really check it out 'cause it's beautiful, beautiful music, and then you've got that gorgeous piano as the background behind you. **Kris:** \[00:19:05\] Yeah. my mind is being jostled out of, a way of thinking about this in the best way. I love it. I love this, this way of thinking about community. I'm curious what you think about- community platforms and, whether it be like Kajabi or Mighty Networks what have you found for your community that having a more structured A kind of like an event, a consistent event is, the way to do it to k-kind of keep guardrails on it, or do you like the kind of the digital chatting back and forth ability too? **David:** \[00:19:47\] The reason I'm building my own startup is because I've not found a tech that works for what I need. Now, people who built Mighty Networks and Circle and a lot of these others did an incredible job with community tech. There are elements of Facebook groups and LinkedIn and the rest that all work, but that's if, I believe, and this is my own opinion, if you have a singular focus. And my network also has a lot of people in it for which access to them is not something you want to just advertise. So I've found very rarely that you can have anonymity and connections because, like, in my tech, like, one of our jokes is w- it says it's an ask-based system. How many degrees am I away from Kevin Bacon? And then the system returns back the fact that I know six people who know him. So it means I'm one degree, not six degrees. Um, but two of those people are Hollywood producers. They're not people you just walk around going, "Oh, I know this person who did this major movie," and they can get me to Kevin Bacon, because there are always the people in the community that want to work through you. So my tech, which is a conversation for another day, is different. But if you're trying to start out, what matters is one thing: the structure by which you can get people to connect, whether it's virtually or in person. I pioneered a technique for Zoom events, which m- they ear- earned me the slogan during CO-COVID by my friends, "Finally, a Zoom event that doesn't suck." And my in-person events, and I have people who run major conferences, most people say my in-person events are also the best they've ever attended. And all of that social psychology is I want to do the opposite of how I felt in middle school. I want people to feel warm, accepted, greeted well. And the one thing you do when you're supposed to come to events is to meet somebody new. Most people hate that. But in my virtual events and my in-person events, the entire theory is, "I'm gonna put you in a room. It's the people I think you should meet or deepen a relationship with." In every event, the outcome is people met because I told them to. People were grateful that they met new people. In any community, if that is your foundation, getting members to support, to meet each other, everything else, whether you're using Mighty Networks or another technology, will be better from that. **Kris:** \[00:22:05\] How do you structure those Zoom events to make that happen? **David:** \[00:22:10\] So part of it is behavioral psychology, which is if you have everyone introduce themselves, the event's now over. I have a few people introduce why I put people in curated Zoom rooms, but I literally study everyone coming. My events are between thirty to sixty people on average, and I put them in rooms of three to five people for fifteen minutes. And so, and I put you and my friend Chuck and my friend Jeff and two other friends in the room, and then I do not tell you why And then you have to answer questions, not easy questions. Like, would you rather have control over your life or what happens with your reactions to what happens in your life? People will try to mull it over, and they'll be like, "Well, do I wanna control everything, or do I wanna control how I react? If I control how I react, then I'm having a whole bunch of crap happen in my life. But if I'm controlling everything, then nothing happens that's spontaneous." And suddenly you're talking to four other strangers. You know their names. You're into this. Somebody's like, "Oh, yes. Well, when I was coaching Lance," and they don't say who, and then it turns out that's my friend Jeff who coached Lance Armstrong. And then somebody else is like, "You know, when I was, writing my first book," and you're thinking, "First book? How many books have they written?" But all you're focused on is that you like the core of their answer. And in this case, for my Zoom events, which are an hour, fifteen minutes pass, I've whet your appetite like an amuse-bouche at a restaurant, which is only designed to get you to have an appetizer and an entrée. That's the point. It's not we like the restaurant, now we'll order the lamb. It's that we, oh, we like that, now we're gonna get the bisque and then the lamb and spend thirty dollars more. So my event, once that happens, you've been... Everyone's been talking. Four people in a room for fifteen minutes, you can't be silent, Kris. You have to be intentional. You got to share with something, and now you want more, which means post-event, now you have time spent with somebody else in my network or maybe everyone. **David:** \[00:24:10\] And that's the point is that it's just the leapfrogging of in-person makes you wanna meet more, virtually or in person. Then you meet them outside, and then you're at another event and you go, "You know what? Linda would like this network." Then Linda joins, and then Linda helps the person you met the first time, but that was eight months ago. And so everything is the design around just giving people a reason to be real, to be authentic. In some cases, they're not, and they don't get to come back. 'Cause somebody just wrote me about one of my virtual events and said that this one member just basically took a call and then basically pitched them on their business. And I heard this from five other people, and now I'm gonna remove that person from my network. **David:** \[00:24:50\] Because those people didn't take a call to be pitched on a business not relevant for them. Right. But my network trusts that I curate it, so therefore, I trust them to curate people out. And that's the other part of community building that's People don't have any risk involved. Like Kumbaya, we're all gonna join a group and help, read each other's bottles. Okay. But what happens if like person number four is an asshole? **David:** \[00:25:14\] And they make me cry when I talk about my bottle. Like, you want that person to come back again? Suddenly, your entire event has been hijacked by a person with no tact or poise. So sometimes it happens in my events that people know I purge **David:** \[00:25:29\] Cause I said you can create, positively, If you're not positive, therefore you're gonna make somebody go cry, then you don't get to come back, and everyone else is more protected from **Kris:** \[00:25:43\] Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's so cool. I love it. You have just been very intentional about every little detail at these events, and because you've been doing this a long time. So what happens after the initial 15-minute kind of- **David:** \[00:26:00\] So I'll give you the entire format with the ask. Everyone who wants to take this and steal it, please do, 'cause I am so tired of every virtual event being horrible. Okay. And, and I don't wanna join online to look at a Brady Bunch of people and have somebody talk at me. I could've watched a video about them or met them in real life or signed off because they're boring. Just 'cause you give somebody a mic doesn't make them entertaining. Right. So my events are a simple format. It's a musical form- format. It's call and response. So I put you in a group for 15 minutes with several other people, and then all the groups are back in a Brady Bunch thing, and I ask people to share their group's experience. I make sure it's no more men than women. And oftentimes in groups, 'cause we live in this society, the two first volunteers are men, and then the third volunteer, I was like, "Andrew, you don't get to talk. Kris has to talk now." And everyone's a little shocked, and I was like, "And after Kris talks, Linda has to talk." And they're like, Andrew will be like, "But I had a great comment." I was like, "Yes, but two white men spoke first, and I believe in gender equality, so too bad." Andrew goes, "I hear you." And so again, I'm rigorous with this because it... Women don't speak first. It's stupid. Women are usually way more brilliant and introspective than men from group settings and understanding it. It's just part of a different psychology. And so four to five people share their experience, and even if you don't share, you realize you all shared in an experience even though it was private and curated for a few people. And then I throw up two more questions, put people in new groups, and I repeat the thing. And then the same groups share. Suddenly everyone's met three to eight people that they like or at least a few that they wanna follow up with. **David:** \[00:27:45\] And then I conclude about how to honor the network, and we're done in an hour on time every time. Everyone the next day gets a list of who attended with their name, email, and LinkedIn or website. And the only ask in my network, which is the five minutes I spend at the end, is an insistence that everyone has to honor the chain of connection So let's say somebody listening to this starts to form their own community 'cause they decide to buy my book, which is still somehow being bought even though it came out last August and every friend I had already bought it or five. And let's say they form a community, and that community starts off and it becomes a mastermind group, and one day they say, "You know, I, I, I owe this all to David Holman. I read his book." And they write me about it, and I'm gonna go, "Well, how'd you hear about me?" And they're gonna forget they heard about me from you 'cause it's two years ago now. And I'm gonna say, "That's not an honorable way to thank me. You have to thank Kris because she's the one who put me on her podcast for you to learn about my book." And what people have to realize is we are that catalyst person introducing or giving somebody a platform like you're giving me, and we are not thanked, which means the connector is the most overlooked person even though we are the initiator, the catalyst of most of the outcomes that happens for people. That's why my network resonates for connectors 'cause there's no one protecting us. But that's how a virtual event works. Once I remind people of that sacred bond, you better be sure I get feedback, tons of feedback from every event. Who met whom? What happened? Mostly what's good, sometimes what's bad. 'Cause when you form a community, all you want is to know if it means something to somebody. **David:** \[00:29:26\] I get five to 30 responses from every event I do on average, sometimes more, with gratitude and an action that came from **Kris:** \[00:29:36\] Wow. Tell me... Like, tell me some of the actions that you hear about. **David:** \[00:29:40\] I mean, there's so many meaningful ones, but my friend Brianna and my friend Greg, they met in a Zoom room six years ago. Greg wrote the book, The Book of Questions, which is part of the catalyst in my community starting to ask deeper questions. And now existing on this planet, and you can get it anywhere, is a book called The Book of Questions for Chronic Illness. And this is for anyone who has a chronic illness but doesn't know how to get people to talk about it because a chronic illness is mostly invisible. Now, there's an entire playbook for what is about a third of our population to be able to say, well, here, here's what it's-- here's what my life is like. Here's how you can start these conversations." So two people met in a Zoom room. Now they're both published, successful authors with this book together. people in my network have co-invested with each other. Their family offices have started funds together. there was one woman who was focused on foster care, and one of my network got her to a top-tier billionaire who became her anchor for her philanthropy. when I say I have tens of thousands, when you have a network where people have to honor the chain, I know every time. So when my friend Bob, who's a coach, comes to one of my events, and then another friend I won't mention because it would disclose who he's working with says, "What's Bob like for you?" And I was like, "Here's what Bob's like for me." They hired him with a significant fee, sight unseen. They met him once for twenty minutes in a small group because I could vouch for him. So direct tangible, you attend my event, and this is a promise to every coach who wants to be part of it, but then you get a client without, with no lead time because the trust was how you entered the room. **David:** \[00:31:27\] And this is every myriad of things from, mergers and acquisitions and investments to getting TEDx talks to meeting people to support philanthropy. I had one woman who left her Dallas network to move to Phoenix, where I'd never been. I connected her with somebody there who became her best friend, and they started a book club together. Cause one was an aspiring author, and the other ran a publishing group, but they actually hit it off because their kids were the same age, which is how I thought to connect them. Cause what mom, when they move with their kids, doesn't want to have their kids make friends right away? It wasn't the outcome, but the outcome came because the ask was about a parent moving to another state. And did I know somebody there? **Kris:** \[00:32:11\] Wow, that's so beautiful. So I wanna rewind here for a minute. You had mentioned gender equality and how you make sure that there's balance with the sharing in the group. and before we hit record today, you mentioned that you love to talk about the divine feminine. Tell me more. **David:** \[00:32:31\] Okay, so I wanna qualify for all the women in my life who love and trust me, I am not attempting to mansplain the divine feminine. I wanna talk about two parts of it, one that is humorous and one that is true. The oth- the humorous one's also true, but I'll save that for a second. So when you look at structural harmony in music, you look at the golden ratio, which is six, four, 60, 40. Everything that makes the composite of that is overlapping circles. This is how DNA is structured. Everything in our world is structured with overlapping cells, every part of it. So when you look at individuals, each as their own circle, as we overlap with others, that's where we gain the c- most common strength. It's never one-to-one. It takes three, four, five to make it strong. For anyone who has kids, when you turn that into a science experiment, it's called a cog vector. It's when you go into a science museum and your kid starts turning a gear, then they put another gear next to it, another gear, and one gear can turn the third, but one gear can turn the fifth. So if all of those are circles, then my theory around community building was connect the ecosystems to each other. And the ecosystems have somebody at the center of it, but when somebody runs a community that's intentional, they're at the center of a circle. The way that our world currently works is a lot different. It is, and this is the humorous part, and forgive me for being crass, but it's basically a bunch of swinging dicks. And sometimes people get smacked around, and sometimes there's a benefit, but it's not actually structural. It all falls apart. Most of harmony is built on these concentric circles, so my theory of change and community building was connect the ecosystem builders. And when they do it right, they sit at the center of the community, but they're not the center of it. They're the conduit for it. And so when I think about divine feminine in that context, it's this idea that if everyone in it is in a place where they've mastered their circle, then the benefits they have of connecting to each other's circles with the right intention is what actually moves something forward because three circles, five circles, 30 circles, then you have a movement. **Kris:** \[00:34:49\] Then you, then you have a change that is greater than one person could do, which is the theory of my group to connect connectors to each other so we can amplify each other's networks. Which at its core, like as a connector, that work is relatively effortless, right? Your own circle is spinning and you're affecting all of these other circles around you, but you're kind of just doing what's natural for you. Would you agree with that? **David:** \[00:35:20\] It's... Yes. It's so easy. I mean, the problem being a connector is you meet thousands of people. It's hard to keep it in your head. But all the time, all the top of my network are like, "You won't believe what happened the other day." They're like, "What?" They're like, "Somebody said they needed to meet an NFL player doing sports tech in Jacksonville." And I was like, "Did you connect them to Naji?" And they're like, "Yeah, that's the guy." And I was like, "Well, why'd they ask that?" They're like, "Well, they were..." It's like, forget the context, but the point is we're sitting on things that are in parallel. Connectors merge them together. But what sits in this is also the problem. So I took a call today. This guy I had been introduced to a year and a half ago, and somehow the text got lost, the email, and he blew me off and never followed up. Then I randomly met his brother at a conference two weeks ago. And his brother, I love both of them, but his brother was finally had something on his older brother who always follows up with everyone except for me I'm not gonna mention the family 'cause it's a very big family office in this case. But as I jump on the phone with this guy this morning, he tells me about the movie he's doing, which is the reason we were connected. As he starts telling me about it, I was like, "This sounds really familiar. My friend Zach is doing the same thing." And he goes, " Zach's my friend. Zach's doing the movie with me." So somebody I'd known for eight years as a close friend in my LA network who's hosted events with me has told me about a movie I'm trying to help him with. A separate friend connected me to his close friend who's doing the same movie, who accidentally blew me off, and only 'cause I'm randomly at a breakfast meeting with this guy's brother am I able to put the two together. So it's effortless, but the problem is no one knew to ask me on both sides. But when you have a community, it doesn't have to be a community of connectors. Then if somebody can't be helped, they're trying to be helpful. And if you have a bunch of people trying to be helpful to everyone else they've built relationships with through virtual events, through in-person events, at some point the structure's gonna work. So person B meets person F and sparks fly. And the person who ran the community, and you might think of it as effort, but it's more efficient to have a bunch of people working on behalf of each other than it is to have you working on behalf of everyone else around you and have those people not know each other. **Kris:** \[00:37:47\] Right. Much more to be orchestrating it all rather than allowing everything to kind of mingle together and, sharing the load basically in some ways. Wow. So, tell us about your book **David:** \[00:38:03\] Well, you've heard a lot about it through all the anecdotes. But the book I wrote, what's interesting is when you said office hours before, because my friend Jamil, years ago during COVID, introduced me to my co-author, Noah Askin, 'cause Noah, who was a professor of teaching at INSEAD in Paris, decided he'd just throw office hours for everyone he worked with or he knew to jump in on a Friday and just take a slot. And because Noah was open as a giver, Jamil thought David should meet Noah. Noah, who's become a close friend, we ended up writing a book together because I put Noah, who was at this amazing academic, Harvard-trained, network strategist who's also a, a closet musician. I put him in touch with fifty people in my network, and he was blown away. He'd never seen both. I said to fifty people, "Please take a call." Fifty people took the call. He goes, "That doesn't happen." And then they all took the call, and they all wanted to help him. And he's like, "Well, I'm here to interview you about Orchestrate." And they're like, "Well, what do you need? What do you need?" And he'd never seen that. **David:** \[00:39:07\] And then when asked why they were a natural giver, forty-nine of the fifty people cited childhood trauma as the reason why they were givers to help other people. And he's like, "Well, there's-- Data science doesn't have a uniform answer." That's not how... And I was like, " Well, I did something different. I'm the preacher, I'm Jewish, but preacher, like throwing this gospel out there, and now you're telling me there's an academic rigor to it. Um, let's write a book together." And he's like, "I'm not interested in writing a book." And he's like, "I thought about it, but it's not where I need to go." And eventually, he was like, "We have to write this book." So the book is a playbook. It's a guidebook for everything I've been talking about. it, it's intended to show both the value and the beauty of my network and to dig into principles that are singly great for people to practice: curiosity, vulnerability, diversity, generosity, and gratitude. And to argue why you have to have a system of all five to be both a better well-rounded person and have a better well-rounded community. Our chapter eleven, so to speak, is the playbook on how to build a community, which means anyone who reads it can simply go follow these steps, answer these questions at the end of it. Now you have a mandate of how to build a community easily. Not saying it's easy work, but w-- I wanna take away the psychology, like you had said, that it's hard to do because our whole book is based on the premise we all need this. We all need more intention and purpose in our lives, and if we insist upon that from those around us to hold to the same standards that we've asked them to hold us to, then our society actually improves, and we have a better outcome. And if people wanna understand how that works, I grew up with-- as a professor's kid with no network. My dad taught Cisco's sister, Walt Ebert. He taught Lin Figgin of Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego. He taught Malcolm Getz of Carolina in the City. He taught people who became NFL stars, and I never met a single one of them 'cause my dad didn't think of this as networking. I built an entire network that has now spanned working with Ray Dalio and getting tapped on the shoulder by Steven Spielberg, who's a donor to a board that I chair, or my friend Candace Parker, who's a WNBA star Olympian, sending me flowers when my father passed last year because she knew I needed something I wasn't ready to ask for. I've now built a network of the, "Oh my God, you know those people," and my answer is, "I don't know them. They trust me." And I built that trust through what this book is about. **Kris:** \[00:41:50\] And I think people are beginning to realize that trust is literally everything. I've been hearing a lot, we're in a trust recession. And the clients that I get on calls with, I, I can see that. They're like, they've been burned. They've been burned out of a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of energy and, the antidote to that is how do we authentically build trust? And it's through these connections with people. **David:** \[00:42:23\] Yes, but you're onto something even if you're not sure you were. So the addendum to my book, we go into two types of people, the eight archetypes of connectors. And on our book site, we have a free test people can take to identify the types you are. There's actually 17 now. All the takers, the horrible people who get away with things in this world, some seem innocuous and some don't, but I'll give you two examples just so you understand, because I wanted to name this, okay? **David:** \[00:42:54\] So, um, I'll just be direct, 'cause why not? It makes the end of this episode more interesting, right? I am certain based on looking at you right now that you have been to a conference where a man said they wanted to do business with you, and they wanted to do more than just business with you. That person is a taker called the dick, and my kids love that so much because they saw me recording the videos. My son has a little inflatable basketball, and it's called the dick. So my nine-year-old and my 12-year-old are aware of this human being. It's mostly a man who leads a woman on for what they need professionally but really wants to get in her pants. **David:** \[00:43:29\] And women have no social setting to go, "Hey, Larry's an asshole. Larry gave me his hotel key and his business card." And we think that that behavior is normal and accepted, and every woman has to deal with it. But when one woman in my network told me about a dick she had met at a conference who was invited to one of my events, I called him up and I said, "I'm sorry, but you can't come." One. I met another three women, each who have had the same issue with somebody who is a billionaire, and I called up five of the family office conferences I go to and I said, "If that person speaks or comes, I will no longer come and do a keynote or run an event for you." So we live in a society where we don't protect people 'cause currently our reputation isn't at stake. And when we transform to be more intentional, then all those takers, those people who have burned the people you've worked with or that, they can't do it 'cause right now it is private. But when you're an intentional community, you better be sure because at every family office conference my friend Lisa and I go to, she comes up to me, and she is very close friends with my partner Rebecca. And there are certain times where Lisa will just link arms with me to protect herself from that guy. But I don't let that stop 'cause I don't believe that you should sit in apathy in between it. If that person is really inappropriate, that's where I go to the people who had invited me to keynote or speak, and I go, "I have a problem." And I will take the repu- my reputation to protect my friend. And then that person has a choice to be honorable or dishonorable, to protect a taker or to protect a giver. And in one case, somebody protected the taker, and I never went back at what they did. And I tell my entire network not to go back there. And my network, as people get to know me, I have a crazy powerful network. And so in my network, my friend Nick is like, "Hey, well, should we try to get one of your friends to your London event?" And I'm like, "Listen, I'm trying, but Malala and her husband might delay their trip to Tanzania to come to my event. But it's, but if they're not, it's 'cause she celebrates her birthday in Tanzania every year. But she and her, her husband, Astor, has promised me they're gonna make it." And so, like, I have a network of that type of people, so you better be sure if I were to warn people like that about somebody, now that threat is real If you're intentional and you draw the lines, then you're not seen as a nasty or hard person for saying somebody crossed those lines. And if you insist upon it with the trusted people that are in your network, that's what makes it intentional. If they start to do the same, then those people that are the really, the bad, bad apples, they have fewer and fewer places to go. So if you do this work, maybe the way that I'm suggesting, then it's much easier once you build trust to be like, "David, actually, I'm gonna send you a text after this. There's one guy who's in that family office world. I used to be his... He used to be my client. Run. I would not leave your kids with him." You don't have to say anything else, but that's why I built that line. Because I wanted a def-definitive line in the sand that unless I leave my kids with you, you're out. You can interpret what actions would de-denote that. That's a pretty sacred bond of who I'd leave my kids with. I mean, now my daughter has an Apple Watch and money on it and can leave and take the subway on her own. But you better be sure when my kids were young, I wanted certainty. So I don't know if that's what you intended when you asked me that, but I want-- But there's a reason why I do this. And a reason why I know when we do this with intention, we can protect each other better. **Kris:** \[00:47:08\] I get that. Thank you for putting words to that. And I think culturally, like, we are needing, craving this and needing it, and it's lovely to hear that you have built a roadmap. you're living this, but you're also helping others create it for themselves, so thank you. **David:** \[00:47:29\] I wish everyone did this, not my way. I wish they found their own way to be more purposeful with it. It re- makes us less lonely, makes us uncover things from people that we need to be, because unless you're curious, you're missing out. Unless you're vulnerable, you don't give somebody the other, on the other side the opportunity to do the same. And if you look for a network that looks like you and talks like you, you're gonna fail 'cause, 'cause a, a yes group, a choir doesn't, doesn't help you. You have to have diversity of all types. And unless you lead a life where you're openly generous to start and honorable back, then people will take advantage of you. **Kris:** \[00:48:08\] Yeah, I think that this idea of really curating the group, not just more is more type of environment, but truly curating the group, weeding out the bad apples, and creating this environment for where people do really feel safe and genuinely have that heart to help is just the quickest way to make the world a better place. **David:** \[00:48:32\] And so I referred to you earlier as having a community 'cause I believe you already do. You can't have a podcast community and a practice like you've had, especially living where you live, which is all community-oriented, and not already have it. Turning the lights on for it is a different thing, but everyone thinks they have to start from scratch it's not. If you say to people, "I'm coming out with my book, it's a big deal. It helps with my brand. I think I've come onto something. I've helped so many people, but I just don't know how to get enough people together, like, in the Pacific Northwest to do this," they'll go, "Oh, well, my sister's best friend from college owns the most famous bookstore in Seattle. Would you like to go to this famous place?" And you'd be like, "Of course I would." But somebody wouldn't think of it unless you shared vulnerably what it's like to be an author and needing bookstores to actually have you come as an author. **Kris:** \[00:49:27\] Well, David, thank you so much for all of this beautiful wisdom and sharing the work that you do. It's been really eye-opening and, dare I say, kind of mind-blowing to hear you talk and really look under the hood of the work that you're doing. So thank you for sharing with us today. I'd love to know where my listeners can find you. **David:** \[00:49:51\] So I finally put everything back to where it started, which is with my name. So David Homan, HOMAN.com, um, has everything there. It has my community, my startup, my advisory firm, where I do work with people one-on-one. I'm more of a connector and a strategist than a coach, but I do have a practice that's a combo of all three. Most people want me to figure out how to get access they couldn't dream of otherwise to scale their business or themselves. If I don't know who, I'll find the right who. but the book is there. You can click on that link, not just to buy it, but see the test. I put it all there. Plus, access to some of my music. But for my music, people can just ask Alexa And then it will, it will just play. That's what my daughter always reminds people every time they, they've never heard my music. **Kris:** \[00:50:41\] And I would love to have you on again, David, to go into the eight archetypes of connectors. I'm very curious about that, and I'm definitely gonna be getting your book, and we'll put that in the show notes as well. **David:** \[00:50:55\] I'd love to do that. Maybe what we could do is you could take that connector test, and perhaps let's say the 10 listeners who also take that test and let you know, we can talk about them in terms of the combo of archetypes, so it can be specific to people- Oh, nice ... as opposed to just a general, "This woman's a shepherdess," which is the person who stands behind the man and is the reason every event happens and every community is built, but there's always that woman. And there is a shepherd version, but it's mostly a shepherdess- ... where they don't take the spotlight, but they're the reason something exists, business, community, whatever it might be. And that psychology is an incredible connector, but no one sees them. So just, that's a tidbit. Yeah. But there's a lot of, there's a lot of people who are that- **David:** \[00:51:42\] they don't see it as a power, but unless they call 30 people, 30 people don't show up. **Kris:** \[00:51:48\] it's so part of who they are that they don't even recognize their power. **David:** \[00:51:53\] And everyone walks up to usually the tall white man and goes, "Tim, what an incredible event. I cannot believe you got all these people here." And Tim goes, "Yes, it's incredible. I did it all." Thank you. **David:** \[00:52:04\] you. Thank you. And everyone's like, "Did you meet Mary?" And, like, Mary waves from the corner 'cause she has a clipboard, but everyone knows Mary got everyone in the room. Like, this is what I tried to study 'cause then once you name it, somebody goes, "Oh, that's a superpower. now I need to take the mic, or I need to define my role better because otherwise I'm being taken advantage of." **Kris:** \[00:52:23\] And one final question, um, before we end today. So I am a connector. I've known that about myself for many years. Like, when I make a connection and it works, for example, I had a friend who I've known since kindergarten. She had a little boy. He was maybe five or six at the time. He was very gifted at singing, really had a great voice, and she wanted to find a voice teacher for her kid that was also a, a male, and just somebody good really is what she was looking for. And I had known, also had grown up with this guy who lived in LA, was a musician back in, the grunge era, had a kind of a big well-known band, moved up to Portland and had to let go of that part of his life. And, I had this idea, well, Andrew can teach my friend's son how to sing. he was in a band, and so I made this connection. They ended up working together, he and this kid, for, a decade. That opened up for Andrew, the voice teacher, who became a voice teacher. That opened up in him this whole business. And now I follow him on social media, and it's always him with his students at their performances, and he'll go to, the high school play or musical, and he'll take a selfie with the lead or his student. And it's been a while since I've even thought about that. But the charge, the energy, like, the high that I get from making a connection like that that actually works is why I do it. I'm wanting to help people, but it's also, it's the best feeling. Why is that? **David:** \[00:54:22\] It is. So well- You, in this case, you changed two lives with one introduction. But to analyze that quickly, right? Your friend's why for her son, right? Male teacher that you trust, right? As a five-year-old. Like, that's a special age to start singing and trust a stranger with your kid. But what's Andrew's why, Well-respected musician in a certain era, left that world. but Andrew's why, You heard him or you heard things he wasn't asking, which is he didn't give that up. He had to transition out of that scene, but it still was a passion for him. So what you awakened as a connector was something very and special. You awakened in him a way to still be part of that joy that he had as a youth into a success by empowering others with it. That's a gift you gave him, and you gave your friend to be the first one. And what connectors do is they, they read between the lines. They hear what's not being said. They hear a why. They match two sides of the same ask. That's what you did. And the joy from it is that you didn't ask anything of it. But now everyone listening goes, "Oh, well, if I have a friend whose son," it could be daughter, "but son is, is in Oregon and really could be an incredible singer, but is having a hard time understanding youth and navigating the business, I can call up Kris and say, 'Hey, that friend Andrew, would he take that call?'" And you'd go, "That's what he does every day. Go look at his website." But they would know coming from you if they were trusted to you- that he'll take that call even if you haven't been in touch because you were the catalyst for him. **Kris:** \[00:56:05\] So much fun. All right, David, thank you for coming today and sharing your brilliance, and, um, very excited to continue the conversation. **David:** \[00:56:15\] Same. Thank you for the time, and thank you everyone for listening. *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Why you already have a community, and what turning the lights on actually involves - The reason coaches can name anyone's value but go silent when asked what they need - How to make an ask specific enough that someone can act on it without you in the room - What David does to run a virtual event that people leave with new relationships from - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/astrology-attracting-wrong-people ### Title: The Astrology of Business: Why You Keep Attracting the Wrong People, with Katherine Wehler ### Page ID: 9869558 ### Content: # The Astrology of Business: Why You Keep Attracting the Wrong People ## About This Episode ## What You'll Walk Away With ## Questions This Episode Answers ## Meet Katherine Wehler ## Connect with Kris Jones ***You'll leave knowing the #1 messaging mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** Why the ideal client you were told to chase may be the wrong one, and how to rebuild your marketing around the people already showing up. The Astrology of Business: Why You Keep Attracting the Wrong People, with Katherine Wehler You were told to niche down, so you did. You picked the audience a course or a coach pointed you toward, and you have been talking to them ever since. Meanwhile a different group keeps landing in your inbox asking to work with you, and you keep waving them off because they are not the ones you were told to serve. In this episode I'm talking with Katherine Wehler, a professional astrologer and new paradigm business coach who uses charts to answer a question most experienced owners are still guessing at: who is this business really for. She tells the story of a client who was told her people were midlife moms while women in their twenties and thirties kept knocking, and what changed the week that client stopped defending a definition she never chose. We also get into how astrology, human design, and the Akashic records differ in plain language, why manifestation earned its bad reputation, and the phrase Katherine uses for the alternative to grinding: the lazy river. How do I know who my ideal client is? Why does my niche keep attracting the wrong people? What is the difference between astrology and human design? How do you grow a business without working harder? "You are riding the lazy river of life. You don't have to swim upstream." Katherine Wehler is a professional astrologer and new paradigm business coach. With 25 years of practicing and studying astrology, starting when she was seven years old, and a lifetime channeling gift, she helps clients merge the mystical and the practical to create extraordinary wealth, impact, and a world changing legacy. She made over seven figures in her business before she was thirty and has coached everyone from new CEOs to eight figure earners. Her work has been featured in Bustle, The Daily Mail, and Yahoo, and she has shared her astrological insights on podcasts and platforms around the world across an eight year career. **Listeners get $100 off a one-to-one session with the code REDDOOR.** [**Visit Katherine's Website**](https://www.katherinewehler.com) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/katherine_wehler) [**Follow on Facebook**](https://www.facebook.com/katherine.wehler) Kris Jones is the founder of Red Door Stories, a Certified StoryBrand Guide, and a messaging strategist who helps service providers, coaches, and consultants clarify their marketing message so they can attract consistent clients. Her core belief: simplicity is a strategic advantage. Less noise, clearer message, more traction. [**Book a Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/) [**Grab the Free StoryBrand Soundbites Toolkit**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/free-resources) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/reddoorstory) [**Subscribe to Kris's YouTube Channel and Learn How to Attract More Clients**](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp2qSBrlNsDU7KTGZV74o0w/) **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story Katherine Wehler is a business coach and astrologer with over 20 years of experience. She helps entrepreneurs build a business that feels meaningful and brings in real money. She uses a really practical strategy to spiritual tools like astrology, like we've been talking about, and human design. So Katherine, tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of the work that you do now. **Katherine:** \[00:00:49\] Yeah, absolutely. So, I'm really, because of the foundation, of where I started as an astrologer, and again, just the fact that I'm a Libra moon in general, I'm a pars of fortune in the 7th house, like I'm very activated by relationship. so really, the basis for all of the astrology that I teach, a lot of it comes from synastry. It comes from the astrology of how we are in relationship to one another. So I mostly primarily do business and wealth coaching, as well as the last few years, definitely more, relationship guidance through astrology. but it's so interesting because it really all has that foundation of what makes us attractive to one another, whether that is a client or a significant other. why do we attract each other, and how can we amplify those pieces that are already very natural, but just highlight them even more, honor them even more in order to produce even bigger results. **Kris:** \[00:01:55\] Interesting. Mm-hmm. I, I've, I have not heard the term wealth coach before, so I'm very curious about that. Yeah. but before we dive into that, I wanna hear like when you get on calls with potential clients, what do they complain about to you? What are they frustrated by, and what do they want your help with? **Katherine:** \[00:02:15\] Gosh, that's such a great question. honestly, I think it all comes down to people being able to trust themselves. because what I love with astrology, and especially the way that I practice it, I've never had somebody say, "No, that doesn't resonate." I've only ever had people say, "How do you know my entire life?" We just met, 15 minutes ago. so it's really interesting to me because really truly, I am just a mirror to them. And so a lot of times people, like in business for instance, people will be like, "Oh, I think I need a new logo," or, "I need to do this system that this coach taught me or whatever to have success." And I look at their astrology and I'm like, "No, actually, when was the last time that you made a family dinner, together with your kids using recipes from your ancestors?" And they will stop and they're like, "Wait, how did you know that I wanted to do that? Like, how did you know that that's been top of mind?" And I'm like, "Well, 'cause I'm looking at your astrology, and that's literally the key to your wealth, or that's the key to cracking open that next level marketing that you've been seeking." So a lot of times- My clients don't necessarily complain. They're very pragmatic. They're very focused on problem-solving. So a lot of times they'll come in and they'll be like, "Okay, like, it's this, this, this, and this, and this." And then I go, "Actually no, it's this." **Katherine:** \[00:03:40\] And then they're like, "That's what my intuition was saying, but I didn't have, like, the proof to trust it," Like, I, I just thought that that was me being, I don't know, focused in a different direction than what I want to achieve or what my goal is. but a lot of, just the way that even business and wealth functions apart from astrology is so nonlinear. So it is really interesting to me looking at those pieces and going, no, you have your own specific code. And then it really is just, like, them, verifying and validating their heart's desires of what it is that they actually uniquely, specifically want, not just what they saw work for somebody else. **Kris:** \[00:04:25\] Right. Right. That makes sense. what... Like, what are the problems that they have that they're wanting help to solve? **Katherine:** \[00:04:34\] I think a really big one, especially with my business coaching clients, is who is my ideal client. So who am I actually talking to? again, simplifying things, cutting out the fat of what, this sales coach says you have to do to get results or,this past course that you took was teaching you about how Instagram works or whatever. And, and really simplifying it down to the essence of, again, like, how are you most magnetic and attractive? so I get a lot of questions about, like, lead generation. Where do I find people? how do I attract in those people? And also, how do I do it in a way that feels aligned for me versus, again, what I've seen, like, other people have success with? **Kris:** \[00:05:22\] Mm. Tell, tell us a, a story about a client that you had that came to you with one thing, and what you did, and then what happened as a result of the work. **Katherine:** \[00:05:33\] Yeah, absolutely. Well, the one that really springs to mind is Noelle, right? she, was doing her business, and she worked with all these incredible, sales coaches and amazing coaches and all these things, but she was feeling like it was really complicated and convoluted and just lots of hard work. And so I looked at her chart, during a session, and I was like, "Girl, like, you just are the magnet," Like, your energy is so infectious. It is so, fun and lively and playful. And she had been talking to midlife moms specifically, so she had been... because of what a sales coach said. "You have to niche down. You have to talk to this specific person." And she was like, "I don't wanna talk to midlife moms." She goes, "I am a midlife mom, and even the way that I see myself isn't that, Like, I see myself as this vibrant, fun person." And so it was really interesting, 'cause she kept saying, "I keep getting all these girls like you in their 20s and 30s that wanna work with me," and I'm like, "Okay, I guess, but this is for midlife moms." So I took a look at her chart, and I'm like, "Well, because your client is not a midlife mom at all. Like, your client is, yes, somebody who holds responsibility, probably has a business or a family that they take care of. Your client is someone who is a new paradigm leader, so maybe they don't fit into every single group, but they feel really welcome in your groups." And then I, I was like, "And then for you, the space that you're holding is, again, that of just women. Women coming together, having fun with one another, finding community with one another." and not, like, in this forced networking way, but it just naturally, fold- unfolds as you're doing, like, these fun activities, like going to a spa or whatever. And so she was like, "Oh my God." So- Even just like that simple shift shifted her whole business. And I've seen that with clients over, and over, and over again, where either they're not specific enough, like there's things in their chart that I look at and I go, "Actually, like you are talking to just women in their midlife, Or you are,you've been saying, oh, you help everybody, but really if you niche down and focus mostly on what you're enjoying anyways, which is the business coaching, you would see better results." So those are some of my favorite business stories because, again, people can create all these stories in their head of, "Oh, it must be this, or it must be that, or I'm not doing this enough, or da, da, da." And I look at their astrology and I just go, "We're just gonna cut out all that noise. This is what it is." And my clients always see results. I've never had a client not see results. **Kris:** \[00:08:26\] Wow. That is so beautiful because I think as entrepreneurs f- we're figuring it all out and continually growing and honing and honing and honing, and, wanting to get better, wanting to love our work more, wanting to do less of the admin or less of the things that we don't really... I'm speaking for myself, like, Right. How can we do the 20% that is our special gift, the work that we love doing, and how can we not do the other 80% that,is drudgery? Or maybe we don't- Yeah ... have to do any of that, right? So it's like- any time you go on Instagram, there's another guru or idea or strategy or approach. And I think it's so wonderful that you're bringing people back to themselves and their own encoding and their own- Mm-hmm ... wiring and brilliance, and basically turning down the volume on all the other stuff. Yep. it's, really powerful, and I think it's just the, the path to a, a simpler, more profitable business. I mean, that's the work that I do with my clients. Like, let's simplify. Let's replace all your marketing- Yeah ... with a single story, and I think the work you're doing is very much in alignment with that as far as just bringing clarity and calm to people. **Kris:** \[00:09:59\] That's wonderful. Yeah. So for people that are, like, new to astrology or think- Mm of astrology as something more personal and not business focused, I'm curious, like, a lot of people are talking about human design. Yeah. I hear a fair amount about Akashic records. Like, tell us- Mm ... kinda the, the basics of astrology versus human design versus Akashic record reading. **Katherine:** \[00:10:28\] Yeah, absolutely. Well, I really am the perfect person to ask about this, because I've seen the records my whole life. That's part of, like, my intuitive psychic-ness is I've known my past lives. I can see everybody's past lives, future lives, timelines, the whole thing my whole life. I've never learned how to do it. It's just always been something that I have, that when I was younger I thought everybody had that ability. I thought it was totally normal. and so I learned through life like, oh no, it's not. So I've had to learn how to turn off that ability just to be present with, like, this is who you are today. this is, like, Kris now, not Kris- Kris' consciousness, 2,000 years ago or whatever. so you know, the Akashic Records are, are fantastic. I do have a lot of thoughts about, past lives and that kind of thing, which basically can be distilled down to with the current paradigm that we are now in, that we've been in for the last few years, it's really most helpful to just focus on what it is that we enjoy today versus getting caught up in sort of like what happened in the past or, too much of that. but there is really valuable information to be sourced from there. That's more of an intuitive practice. you know- **Kris:** \[00:11:49\] de- how would you define a- Akashic Record or the Akashic, what's- **Katherine:** \[00:11:54\] So the Akashic Records... Yeah, that's such a great question. The Akashic Records are basically like the cloud, but for all human memory and emotion, lives, consciousness. people practice it in all kinds of different ways. but basically, I mean, when you're tuning into the Akashic Records, you're just tuning into the- The human story, really- **Kris:** \[00:12:23\] Right ... It's like, it's like a giant library- **Kris:** \[00:12:28\] right? That you can go to and find out, okay, what happened in the past- Mm-hmm in past lives- Yeah ... and then that can inform or help make sense of what's going on in today. **Katherine:** \[00:12:40\] Right. Exactly. Exactly. And yeah, like, the way that I- I've seen it, visually my whole life is, especially when I was younger, was primarily a library. Like, literally I would have dreams of going into the library, choosing a book, seeing a life. so yeah, as far as, like, a visual format of how people access it, very much like a library. I say the cloud because I think that that's more of, like, an accurate representation of how it forms energetically, because it really is sort of this thing that doesn't physically exist, but is just, like, everything gets, sent there. but yeah. So, so that's the space that the Akashic Records holds. with human design, astrology actually is a part of human design. it's not the only part of human design. Human design is its own system. I work with human design as well, even though I lead with astrology, just because I've been studying it longer, but I've also been studying human design, for about seven years, studying and practicing and teaching it. so I love human design as well. but human design is, like, much more complex in terms of, just understanding, like, all of the gate expressions and, it's, it's always interesting to me when people who are beginners to both astrology and human design say, like, "Oh, human design is just so much easier for me." I'm like, "What?" Like, astrology is just one part of human design. There's so many moving pieces there. But I think they just mean, like, knowing their energy type, right? Like, "Oh, I'm a generator, and so therefore..." And the joke in human design, of course, is that it's just strategy and authority. So, the way that you unlock your own highest or, most, what I call most fun and favorite potential using human design is truly just focusing on your strategy and authority, and practicing it, not studying it. but I would say that, like, astrology really is all of it. So all three of these components work really nicely together, because astrology is the map of- The stars at any given moment, for any specific date. So whether that is your birth date, the day you got married, the day that you adopted a child, right? It could be any of these things. It forms a, a story. It forms a narrative around what is the energy behind that. So for instance, if you look at a birth chart, you can see somebody's entire life, right? And you can see all of the potential that is available to them. their weaknesses, their strengths, their wealth code, their love code, all of it. and then what I love about astrology, which also happens in human design, is that you have transits. So the planets continue moving even after, that date that we mark the event, and through that movement, it's really a process of evolution. So both astrology and human design are what I like to call evolutionary blueprint systems, which basically means it's not a personality test. It's not like, a Myers-Briggs or, an Enneagram or something where it changes. It's something that is stagnant in terms of you have this set chart for when you are born, but then you're working with different pieces of that all throughout your life. **Kris:** \[00:16:19\] Mm. Interesting. Okay, so tell me about, manifestation. Do you help your clients manifest? Or is that- Oh, yeah. Yeah **Kris:** \[00:16:31\] Okay. Are you- Absolutely ... you're, you're a manifesting queen. Huge. Okay. **Katherine:** \[00:16:36\] Let's- I've got my Saturn in Pisces in the ninth house, so it's like my jammy jam jam jam. Yeah. **Kris:** \[00:16:41\] Awesome. Yeah. Okay, so l- I think, I mean, to... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like manifestation has gotten kind of a bad rap. I don't know if it's been overused or if people have tried to manifest- Yeah ... and it hasn't worked. Like, tell, let's talk about ma- manifesting. What are your thoughts around it? **Katherine:** \[00:17:00\] Yeah. Well, so my friend Sonia, who I work very closely with, and, we, whenever I do specific offers around manifesting, we always partner, because she's, the manifesting queen. I was just having a conversation with her about this actually, like 30 minutes before we hopped on this recording. and basically, it's moving from a Newtonian model to a quantum model of manifesting. So people who are getting upset or frustrated with manifesting are still working from a Newtonian model of like, "I want this goal," Like, "I want this much money," or, "I want this thing," or whatever. and they're not getting curious about what the journey is to that goal, why they desire that goal. It's like, "Oh, I should be able to say it and then snap my fingers and there it is." Right? But the interesting thing about manifesting is that we're always manifesting. Every single one of us is always manifesting, whether we are consciously participating in it or not. Mm-hmm. and so quantum manifesting is so much more interesting to me, and this is the, modality that I teach, as well as when I partner with Sonia on. I call it my portal strategy, which is basically instead of setting the goal and then being like, "Okay," like, "I don't know where it's coming from," or like, "I'm gonna try to manipulate it or try to control it", you actually reverse engineer the manifestation process. So you start with what that desire is, you set it, and then through the portal process, you actually see What are you actually manifesting? Because you're not actually manifesting 10 new clients or a 12K month. You're manifesting more time with your family or,visibility, like increased visibility during a launch or whatever, right? Maybe it's updating the systems on your back end. Maybe it's a combination of all these things. But through the portal strategy, you're able to see as it unfolds what that is, and it's so much more interesting and so much more magical than just, like, okay, like I'm just gonna manifest, a huge yacht or something. And- Right ... and n- there's no desire behind it. There's no, but i- it's really interesting to me 'cause, like, for instance, I had a client who was making pretty consistent 100K months when she came to me, and she was like, "I want this to be, like, 200," like, she had all these grand visions for what she wanted her next launch to be. So we did the portal strategy, and she was... She actually ended up, gifting scholarships to 138 women who were underprivileged and very deserving, and, a part of a community that she felt could receive that support for what she offered at the time. And she wrote me, and she was like, "I learned so many important life lessons from this about what life truly is about and what genuinely brings me joy," because she had come to me saying, "Yeah, I'm kind of feeling apathetic about it. I'm not feeling lit up anymore." So that was what she was actually manifesting. Mm-hmm. It wasn't the 200K launch. Right. It was the feeling of meaning and purpose to her life and her business again. **Kris:** \[00:20:27\] Oh my gosh. I love that. Yeah, You look under the hood or ... under the layers of what that initial external goal is. Mm-hmm. **Katherine:** \[00:20:36\] I read- Yeah, I call it, like, detective work almost. You **Katherine:** \[00:20:39\] you think you're, like, collecting clues. But it's so fun because when you set the portal, like, you're already setting the energy of, like, this is going to happen. Now I get to be curious about all the ways that this happens, and I get to see that unfold before me, and collect those clues and really, again, reverse engineer the manifestation process. **Kris:** \[00:21:00\] Very cool. Okay. I read an email the other day. I follow this copywriter named Ian Stanley. Mm-hmm. And he's a great writer. He's a great marketer, and he's also got some meditations on YouTube. Like, he is... He's a good, He's k- kind of into the woo woo, too. **Kris:** \[00:21:22\] And, He shared this email the other day, which I thought was really thought-provoking, And he has this dream of becoming a famous comedian. He's very funny, and has this career as a copywriter, but his real dream is to be a comedian. **Kris:** \[00:21:40\] And he talks about it a lot. He has this dream of, like, selling out stadiums, and,massive amounts of people coming to his shows. And what he shared in the email was that he was getting so caught up with the end goal of being, like- Mm-hmm ... this wildly successful comedian, that he, he forgot to really embody that he is a comedian, and really- Oh, interesting ... to step into the identity of being a comedian, and enjoying what that identity brings him day to day, and just allowing- Mm-hmm the mystery of life to unfold in whichever way it is in this identity of a comedian. And he totally let go of being locked into that end result, because it was distracting him from the real-life experience- Right ... of being a comedian. And he's like- Mm-hmm ... "If I'm gonna read a mystery book, I, I'd be really mad if you told me the end of the book, Mm-hmm while I'm enjoying the book." And he's like, "That's what I was doing in my own life," and I thought that was a really powerful lesson. So what are your thoughts? Like, how would you unpack that? **Katherine:** \[00:23:07\] Yeah. Well, I love that, and I think that's, that's exactly, like, again, the process that I love to use and, again, where my clients get real results, especially in places where they've been very frustrated before. Because again, I ... It's kind of goes hand-in-hand with what I was saying earlier about those who have businesses and think they have to do a specific thing to get the result that they're desiring because that's what they've seen happen before. but so much of what we are manifesting nowadays is that looking for clues, right? It's seeing what has always been there. That was even,the, the marketing that I use around the portal, teaching that strategy. When people come into that container, was literally I did a whole marketing campaign where I was basically Easter egging people the whole time. Mm. And it's this idea of, little kids looking for Easter eggs, and they can see, like, the obvious ones right in front, but they don't always see the one that was, like, in the tree or maybe behind them. And so, so it's really being able to say, like, "No, I already know that this is here." So in his case, we would set the portal for, I don't know, he's a professional comedian doing this full time or something like that, set the date. And then what he would see along the way is exactly what he realized, which is, "This is already present in my life. Like, this is already my reality in all of these ways," and that is just going to continue to compound, and again, maybe even come through in, like, super magical invitations to, do comedy at this really famous, like, comedy store. something like that, right? this invitation to do a worldwide tour or whatever. but I think that that's what's so fun about it, is manifestation today, I always say the root of manifestation, what the word actually translates to in Latin, is to see your hand before you. So it is the idea of literally being able to shift your perspective to see what was always there, **Kris:** \[00:25:21\] Mm. That's really beautiful. Wow. All right. Kathryn, this has been such a joyful conversation for me, and really eye-opening. you've got my wheels turning. ... if you, if you could give our listeners one piece of advice, what would it be? **Katherine:** \[00:25:44\] I think what comes to mind intuitively for your listeners is just to trust yourself, even when you use these modalities or you use these strategies or whatever, the foundation of it really is being able to trust yourself. Like, being able to not question your intuition, being able to know that it's okay if you are different or you do things differently or even things happen for you in a way that is different for others. so much of the astrology right now is literally about that, and we're also experiencing it for the first time in our lives, and for the first time, for some of the astrological transits, in literal centuries. So, it's a very new way of moving through the world, where it is this deeper intuition and trust that is going to get us farther than just doing, the old paradigm stuff of what has always worked or what worked for Sally down the street but maybe isn't your own unique strategy. **Kris:** \[00:26:49\] Right. And, and really,thinking differently about, like, efforting is not gonna get you there if you jump in the river and let the current take you, you actually don't have to work so hard, and it will get you to your goal. I know, **Katherine:** \[00:27:04\] that's what I actually call it. I call it the lazy river of life. Yeah. Like, literally use that exact language in my copy, where I'm always like, yeah, like, when you are using the astrology, you are riding the waves. You are riding the lazy river of life. You don't have to swim upstream. **Kris:** \[00:27:23\] Right. Beautiful. Katherine, where can we find you online, and do you have any freebies that you wanna share? **Katherine:** \[00:27:31\] Yeah. Yeah, so you can find me, on katherinewehler.com. I'm the only person in the world with my name , so literally just Google me and I'll pop up everywhere. but I'm katherine\_wehler on Instagram, Katherine Wehler on Facebook. all great places to connect with me. I love a DM. I know not everyone does, but I love connecting with people. Like, again, Libra moon, I just, I love human connection. so, if this resonated with you or you have any questions, feel free to email or DM. I also have an offer for your listeners too. So they can take $100 off a one-to-one session with code REDDOOR. Nice. so yeah, they could do wealth code session, love code, business. It's all available. **Kris:** \[00:28:22\] Beautiful. How generous. Thank you very, very much. **Katherine:** \[00:28:26\] Yeah, my pleasure. This has been so fun. **Kris:** \[00:28:29\] Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - Why the ideal client definition you were handed can quietly stall your growth - The lead generation question Katherine hears most, and the one she asks instead - How astrology, human design, and the Akashic records differ, without the jargon - What changes when you reverse engineer a goal instead of chasing the number on it - [Blog](/blog) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Office Hours](/office-hours) --- ## URL: https://www.reddoorstories.com/business-storytelling-ai-has-to-borrow ### Title: Business Storytelling Is the Part AI Has to Borrow, with Dr. J.J. Peterson ### Page ID: 9885084 ### Content: # Business Storytelling Is the Part AI Has to Borrow ## About This Episode ## What You'll Walk Away With ## Questions This Episode Answers ## Meet Dr. J.J. Peterson ## Connect with Kris Jones ***You'll leave knowing the #1 messaging mistake costing you clients and exactly how to fix it.*** Why the stories only you can tell are the one thing a prompt cannot generate, and how to find them in the work you have already done. Your content has started to feel flatter, and you cannot quite name why. The words are fine. They are also the words everybody else in your field is using, and somewhere in the back of your mind you know the tool you drafted with had something to do with it. In this episode I am talking with Dr. J.J. Peterson, who holds a PhD in communication with an emphasis in narrative theory and spent two decades inside StoryBrand. He explains the research behind why business storytelling moves people at all, then gets practical about where a point of view actually comes from. His answer is not a brand exercise. It is the moments in your work where something went badly and you grew from it, the two or three familiar ideas only you have stacked together, and the joy that makes people trust a human over a machine. If you have ever thought everybody in my field says what I say, this is the conversation that gives you a way out of it. How do you stand out in marketing when AI makes everyone sound the same? What is narrative transportation and why does it matter in marketing? How do you find your unique point of view in business? How do you tell your own story without making yourself the hero? Since 2013, Dr. J.J. Peterson has used the StoryBrand Framework to help thousands of organizations clarify their message and grow their business. He holds a PhD in Communication, has spent 20 years practicing and teaching communication theory, and is an adjunct professor in the Master of Marketing program at Vanderbilt University's Owen School of Business. As Head of StoryBrand he traveled the world facilitating workshops and keynotes, and companies like Microsoft and Certified Angus Beef along with thought leaders like Amy Porterfield and Donald Miller have worked with him to clarify their message. [**Visit J.J.'s Website**](https://drjjpeterson.com) [**Follow on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/drjjpeterson) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/drjjpeterson) Kris Jones is the founder of Red Door Stories, a Certified StoryBrand Guide, and a messaging strategist who helps service providers, coaches, and consultants clarify their marketing message so they can attract consistent clients. Her core belief: simplicity is a strategic advantage. Less noise, clearer message, more traction. [**Book a Money-Making Messaging Call**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/) [**Grab the Free StoryBrand Soundbites Toolkit**](https://www.reddoorstories.com/free-resources) [**Follow on Instagram**](https://instagram.com/reddoorstory) [**Subscribe to Kris's YouTube Channel and Learn How to Attract More Clients**](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp2qSBrlNsDU7KTGZV74o0w/) **Kris:** \[00:00:00\] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of \[00:00:15\] story Dr. JJ Peterson, I am so delighted to have you here. JJ and I have known each other now about a decade because JJ and- ... Donald Miller were a \[00:00:30\] two, two-man band, or a three-man band, three-person band with Koula Callahan, way back in the early days. And so I have known you a long time, and it's just such a joy to have you here on the show, and I've been \[00:00:45\] really looking forward to it. So welcome, and thank you for being here. **J.J.:** \[00:00:49\] Oh, my gosh. Such an honor, and likewise. Like, before we even started recording, we talked for like 20 minutes 'cause we're just like, "We just keep going." **J.J.:** \[00:00:58\] ready for our- It's like, "We gotta get down to business. Let's actually \[00:01:00\] record a podcast here." **Kris:** \[00:01:01\] Yeah, let me hit record. Yeah. And Tim, Tim Ferriss, eat your heart out with your two-hour podcast episodes. So, a little bit about JJ. He has spent \[00:01:15\] a couple of decades helping business owners get clear on their message so they can truly stand out in a crowded market. And he, as I mentioned, has been one of the, the key leaders inside the StoryBrand community and \[00:01:30\] been Donald Miller's thought partner as they've grown this business. And now you are leaning into a new brand, your own brand, which is, as you can see in the background if you're watching this on video, Badass Softy. And \[00:01:45\] it's not only his business, I love the logo, but it's also a podcast, which I was on recently. So congratulations on this kind of new chapter for you. **J.J.:** \[00:01:57\] Thanks. It's been real fun. It, it feels like, \[00:02:00\] uh, in some ways a new chapter, and in some ways just a continuation of what, has been happening. You know, I was with StoryBrand and Don for, I think, 13, 14 years, and, and loved it, and have continued, continue to... I'm actually still there. I still have a \[00:02:15\] title there. It's called professor-in-residence, so I still teach and kind of do curriculum, and I just got a meeting on my calendar next week with him. And so, um, still involved, but really kind of moving into building some of my own things. You know, as a business owner, you, like, \[00:02:30\] get to a point where you're like, "Well, I'd like to not have to ask off for vacation and take it when I want," you know? Right. Like things like that. And so it's like I started kind of building my own thing, and still a continuation of that and a little bit of expanding on it a little. **Kris:** \[00:02:43\] Totally. And, and \[00:02:45\] along the way, you have gone and gotten your doctorate in story. Is that right? At Vanderbilt? Or is that where you teach? **J.J.:** \[00:02:52\] That's where I teach. Okay. I teach in the master's program at Vanderbilt, master's of marketing in, um, at Vanderbilt, but my PhD is in communication \[00:03:00\] with an emphasis in narrative theory and narrative marketing. And so my whole study was to look at, I mean, story has always been kind of my world, and fascinated by and studied. And even as part of my PhD, I flew to Oxford \[00:03:15\] and, studied Lewis and Tolkien, and it just kind of had- Wow ... it's, like, the best PhD ever. And, then, and movies and all that. And so I wanted to know with my dissertation, essentially, does story work, like wha- \[00:03:30\] and why does wor- story work, and I actually, took me about 10 years is how long I worked on it. It's about as long as you're allowed to. And really studied what makes people move and connect and, change their minds, and then how \[00:03:45\] do you bring that into just your storytelling in general, and then also specifically messaging and marketing. **Kris:** \[00:03:51\] And you had, been in lots of different industries, that were related to story before StoryBrand, so this is kind \[00:04:00\] of your passion in many ways- ... obviously, if you're getting your doctorate in, in it. I'm curious. You, you knew a lot about story before you went back to school. Yeah. What did you learn that was surprising to you?\[00:04:15\] **J.J.:** \[00:04:15\] Well, what was interesting is, if you would have known me pre-StoryBrand, people would have said I was all over the place. It never felt like that to me, but like I was an actor and a director, like in Hollywood, and wrote and developed a television show and wrote \[00:04:30\] screenplays. And then I also was a professor. I taught communication and leadership at a university. I also did nonprofit work, where specifically I did marketing and built websites. So everybody's like, "Oh, wait, you're a marketer. Oh, wait, no, you're in- you're into writing movies. Oh, \[00:04:45\] wait, you're a professor." And it felt like all over the place. So when I found StoryBrand, it genuinely felt like, oh, finally, all my passions have kind of all come together. Yes. And that was really fun for me. In fact, like when I met Don, I was \[00:05:00\] a, I was a dean of students at a university, and I was, I had just sold a television show to a production company, and I was leaving that s- school to go do the TV show. And kind of as a gift to myself, I had been a fan of Don's. He was a \[00:05:15\] writer and, you know, and I'd watched even his movie and everything, and I was like, "I'm gonna hire this guy to come speak to my students so I can hear him." Like, it was kind of like a farewell gift to me. 'Cause I reached out to his team, who I didn't know at the time, and just said, "Can he come speak?" And he said, \[00:05:30\] "Yes." And we met, and like kind of instantly clicked, and he started hearing everything I was doing, and he's like, "I'm launching this thing called StoryBrand." It didn't really exist yet. It was called StoryLine at the time. And he said, "Why don't you come and rebrand \[00:05:45\] yourself? You're moving out of education into entertainment. How, you know..." And when I came out to the first workshop, I was just like, "Oh, you jerk. This is what I've been trying to do for 20 years, and you figured it out." You know? Yes. And so and that's just, that was \[00:06:00\] the beginning of, you know, like 13, 14 years ago of now continuing to work together in it. And so I was working on my PhD actually to teach, 'cause I was a professor before I even came to StoryBrand, and then finished it while I was at StoryBrand, and kind of \[00:06:15\] redirected it a little bit to fit what we were doing. the biggest thing for me of discovery, I, I would say the kind of the area that I just went, "Oh, okay, this all makes sense," because I, I said what I wanted to discover in my PhD is how story works \[00:06:30\] and, like, does it work and how? And understanding that story is formulaic, you and I know that from being in the StoryBrand world, that there are actually rules to story. But the biggest thing that surprised me was there's this, the area that I really \[00:06:45\] studied was a, a area called narrative transportation, and it's the idea that when you experience a good story, you transport yourself into that. So, like, if you're in a movie and you laugh or you see something scary and you \[00:07:00\] jump, you've experienced narrative transportation. Now, to help people experience or, more importantly, break narrative transportation, there are actually rules around that as well. Mm. So when people \[00:07:15\] experience narrative transportation, the more they experience, the more influence that story has on their thoughts and their actions. So that was one thing that just m- There's actual research around that story can change your mind and \[00:07:30\] change the way you act. But the only reason that can happen is if you experience this thing called narrative transportation. Right. Now, there is a 15... I'm getting very nerdy here in this, but- I love it ... I get very excited. Keep going. So- **J.J.:** \[00:07:40\] there's actually, the people who basically developed the idea around \[00:07:45\] narrative transportation created this 15-point scale. There's kind of like 15 things that if you don't hit them, it breaks narrative transportation. So there's, there's a lot of different kind of intricate rules to it. But really, the \[00:08:00\] two most important things that people have to experience when they see a story, if it's gonna have influence on them, is they have to see themselves in the story in some form, whether that is because they relate to an \[00:08:15\] emotion, a situation, or an action that the character is in, taking or in. So they have to see themselves in the story. And then the second thing is the story has to have what is called fidelity and coherency. It needs to stick together, \[00:08:30\] meaning it needs to follow the rules of story. So if you can achieve those two things in a movie, in a book, and, but the research also shows in marketing that people can see themselves in the story and the story sticks together and makes sense, the \[00:08:45\] research shows you will experience narrative transportation, and therefore that story will have a higher level of influence on your thoughts and actions. So when I came to StoryBrand, one of the really interesting things, so when you do your PhD and you \[00:09:00\] do a dissertation, you have to do, you have to add to scholarship, which means that you're not ever allowed to repeat something some- You, I can't just summarize somebody else's research, you know? So I can't just do, like, how to write a good \[00:09:15\] story. Well, some, millions of people have written on that. Or, um, I can't do, like, originally I was studying comedy for quite a few years, of how to use comedy in story and the influence comedy has. Mm-hmm. Different things like that. But the area that it came down to was, weirdly \[00:09:30\] enough in academia, nobody had ever showed a very clear path of how to easily achieve fidelity and coherency and make sure the person sees themselves in the story. So they could measure if somebody saw themself in the story, and they could \[00:09:45\] measure the impact of the lack of fidelity and coherency in a story and its influence, but nobody in academia had said, "Here's how to achieve it." So when we created the stuff at StoryBrand, we were actually the first in the academic \[00:10:00\] world to say, "Here's how you actually achieve the top two levels for narrative transportation. You make the story about your customer, and you do that by identifying who the character is. The character is your, the hero of the story is your customer, \[00:10:15\] and you identify very early on what it is that they want, and then what problem they have." Those two things in marketing guarantee that you are making the story about your customer, and they will see themselves in it. And then second, what StoryBrand did is \[00:10:30\] gave us seven elements that have to be in a story for it to make sense, meaning we created the system for fidelity and coherency in a narrative. So That's what surprised me, is one, influence can be \[00:10:45\] measured. It's really measured by this one thing called narrative transportation, and then the way that you achieve narrative transportation is by making the character see themselves, making the audience see themselves in the story, and having fidelity and coherency. Mm. And when I \[00:11:00\] discovered that, and then I basically went back with the StoryBrand framework to my advisors and said, "Hey, I'm not finding anywhere this. This is how you achieve fidelity and coherency and see themselves in the story." And they all went, "Yeah, nobody's ever done \[00:11:15\] this before." And So Don often introduces me as the world's leading academic expert in the StoryBrand framework. That's because when I wrote this dissertation, nobody had ever written what we had written before. And so any time, \[00:11:30\] the, the trick is any time you have a PhD, you are the leading academic expert in your area because nobody else has ever written about that before. Because **Kris:** \[00:11:37\] that's the rule. You can't repeat. So. Yeah. **J.J.:** \[00:11:41\] So anyway, that's a long way around it, but that was really kind of what \[00:11:45\] surprised me, and then also what we discovered along the way. **Kris:** \[00:11:48\] Wow. That's really cool. I didn't realize that that's how you had o- originally met Don, and I didn't know that one-two punch, those two components when \[00:12:00\] working together can really basically- Achieve narrative transformation, AKA time travel. **J.J.:** \[00:12:08\] It's like you Yeah ... What it really does in the way that your m- it works with your mind is it allows your mind to kind \[00:12:15\] of not have to think about all the other things. Because when you create this kind of system for people or the, the clarity in the story, It does the thinking for your brain. Got it. So it actually helps your brain kinda enter into. So often what \[00:12:30\] we say at StoryBrand is you're not... When you're creating good marketing, a lot of people say, "I wanna tell our story." And we say, "No, you can't tell your story. You have to tell your customer's." But then really it's actually you're not telling your customer's story. What you're doing is you're \[00:12:45\] inviting your customer into a story that they can see themselves and make sense. **Kris:** \[00:12:48\] Yes. Uh, I, I like to talk about it that way because it feels much more accurate. You- **Kris:** \[00:12:54\] it is a, a story that you're sharing with your customer. You're obviously the \[00:13:00\] guide, they're the hero. They're the central figure, and for a lot of the people that I work with, that's kind of a relief. Like, they're in the story- Mm-hmm ... but they're not the central character. They're the strongest character, which is also \[00:13:15\] wonderful. but yeah, it's, it's tricky. I think a lot of people want to tell their company's story, and I think it's really important. Not that you can't do that, but if you want to make money and grow the business, \[00:13:30\] first you have to tell a story where y- your ideal client is the hero and you're the guide. **J.J.:** \[00:13:36\] Yeah. And what I've just kind of talked about is the research shows if you make yourself the hero or your business the hero, it will not... It has \[00:13:45\] been proven, there's research to show it will not have as much influence or impact as the other version. It just won't. Right. **J.J.:** \[00:13:52\] So it's not even, like, what we... Like, I think for me what drew me to the framework in the beginning, honestly, was that. It was like, oh, I don't have to \[00:14:00\] sell anything anymore. I don't have to push- Right ... or try to make myself sound better than everybody else. I get to show up and be s- and serve as the guide. That's what originally drew me to the framework. Right. But then as I discovered it, it was like, oh, not only is that \[00:14:15\] a, a more fun way to live as a human, in my opinion, but also it actually has been proven to be more effective. So if you- Yeah ... try to make yourself the hero, you'll get attention, but you won't actually make an impact. **Kris:** \[00:14:27\] Right. Right. It's not gonna get \[00:14:30\] the boat that you're on to the destination that you're hoping to get to. **Kris:** \[00:14:35\] Yeah. would you say... Okay, we're talking about story in business, but would you say that you can also use story as a tool \[00:14:45\] for healing? **J.J.:** \[00:14:47\] Mm, mm-hmm. Oh, in so many ways. Because what story does is it actually takes... So when we, we, when we say that story has rules, what we're actually saying is \[00:15:00\] the rules act as a filter and give meaning and purpose and direction for events. Mm-hmm. So what happens is when you're telling an actual story, a good story to yourself, to other people, \[00:15:15\] what you're doing is you're filtering out the information that is in any given situation down to the meaningful moments. Mm. So like today, you know, there's been a lot of things that have happened in my day \[00:15:30\] But like, including like, "Oh, I made breakfast this morning. I had coffee. I, cleaned off the counter. I took a phone call." but at the end of the day when I'm sitting down with my husband and talking about the day and he goes, "So what did you do today?" I'm gonna find the \[00:15:45\] one or two moments, probably this podcast being one of them, and say, "Oh, there was this moment today when I was talking with Kris," and, right? So I've filtered out all the other meaningless kind of things. So that's one \[00:16:00\] piece is it helps, story helps organize and give meaning to and highlight the important pieces. The other thing to remember is that a good story always involves transformation. So a hero in a \[00:16:15\] story is never the same at the end of the story as they are at the beginning. Like, Luke Skywalker is an orphan on a planet, you know, alone. By the end of Star Wars, he's a Jedi. He literally transforms. He becomes somebody different. **J.J.:** \[00:16:29\] Katniss in \[00:16:30\] Hunger Games, kind of an orphan also. Yes. Trying to take care of her family. She becomes the Mockingjay. Story involves transformation. If there's no transformation, it's just an anecdote. It's not a story. If you're like, "What'd you have for breakfast?" I'm like, \[00:16:45\] "Eggs." And you're like, "Wow, fascinating." You're not saying that, right? It's not interesting. But if I learn a lesson from my eggs this morning or it transformed me, now it becomes an interesting story. So a lot of times what can happen \[00:17:00\] when you're telling a story, even for yourself, is what you're doing is you're looking for where were the moments that I transformed? Where are the moments where I learned something and became somebody different? Because when I can identify those selves, 'cause a lot of times we don't see \[00:17:15\] ourselves, we live in the day to day, so we don't see ourselves as constantly transforming. So we think, "Well, I've been struggling with this and I'm always gonna struggle with this." And really if you pause for two seconds and go, "But three years ago, where were you?" **J.J.:** \[00:17:28\] You can, you can recognize there was a \[00:17:30\] transformation. That's a good story. So story for me gives us kind of that filter and framework, one, to find meaning in the individual moments that often there's five billion in a day. Right. And second, \[00:17:45\] helps us to identify the moments of transformation that are actually important for us to continue to heal and move forward. **Kris:** \[00:17:51\] Oh my gosh, what a beautiful answer, and I just totally resonate with it. I, I've felt the \[00:18:00\] healing power of story, but it's really cool to put words to it like that, so **J.J.:** \[00:18:05\] thank you And then, I mean, there's so much more, like, where of connection. Like, when you and I share a common story and you can see yourself in my story, if I've experienced \[00:18:15\] healing, you can experience healing through me. You know? And, and it's not always a one-to-one, but there's an element of community and tribalism and where we can learn from each other. If I learn to tell my story in a way that's helpful, that's valuable, \[00:18:30\] like, if we're even talking taking it out of even that kind of the healing space, but even in a, like a, a entrepreneur and thought leader, right? If they can learn to put their transformation, their healing, their changing \[00:18:45\] into words, then they can actually show people that there's a path forward for transformation for themselves. Mm. So when I say you cannot be the hero of your own story, what I'm not saying is don't ever share your story. But recognize the \[00:19:00\] parts of the story that you share should be as a guide for other people who want to go on that same transformation. **J.J.:** \[00:19:07\] So if you've moved from here to here, then you're not telling the story about how you did it in... Like, if you were \[00:19:15\] born a billionaire, and you're like, "Well, all you have to do is start a business," that's not gonna tell somebody, right? Like, "All you have to do is just start a business and people will come." And it's like, well, that's not my story, so I can't actually see myself. But if you are a thought leader who, when you were younger, struggled \[00:19:30\] and went through hard things, and even were, like, beaten up and pushed down and overlooked, and then you move to a place of where you actually now help other people move, I can see myself in that story, and I can believe that I have healing and \[00:19:45\] transformation in me as well. **Kris:** \[00:19:46\] yeah. It's a, it's like a meaning-making machine, but also a hope, right? It's the hope and the belief that, oh, if they've done it, that's proof that I can then do it too. Mm. So when, when an \[00:20:00\] entrepreneur is telling their story, the parts that really matter to your ideal clients are really the struggle that you had and that you found a way to overcome that struggle. And you don't get ... You don't have \[00:20:15\] to go into a lotta detail about how you even solved it. You just have to show That you did. **Kris:** \[00:20:22\] Yes. Well, what are, what are some of the mistakes that you've seen entrepreneurs make when \[00:20:30\] it comes to this kind of work? **J.J.:** \[00:20:32\] Yeah, so there's a couple different things. One of the things I'm working with a lot of clients on right now is how to show up with your authentic voice, your human voice. In a world of AI, where, like, everything is kind of insane, \[00:20:45\] and everybody sounds the same, and there's more noise in the market, and everything's generic, how do you show up with an authentic voice? And the first part I will say is a couple mistakes people make is they show up, you know, you and I both know with Donald \[00:21:00\] Miller's framework, one of the things that we talk about is there are really four characters to every story, right? There's a hero, a villain, a victim, and a guide. And those exist in story because they exist in us, right? That we often play the \[00:21:15\] victim, the villain, the hero, and the guide. So just very briefly to describe those is when it comes to a victim, a victim exists only in a narrative. In story framework, a victim only exists in the story to make the hero look \[00:21:30\] good and the villain look bad. They, good stories are never written about victims who stay victims. They're a side character. And so they really just exist to essentially suck energy from other people. So- ... we, when we play \[00:21:45\] the victim, when we play a victim with our own lives, we often show up in a way that is trying to make people feel sorry for us. or we're trying to, blame other people. And when I see \[00:22:00\] leaders, entrepreneurs show up with, as a victim online, you're never gonna write a good story with your life or your business because people aren't gonna trust you. You're there to be rescued, not to help them. So while \[00:22:15\] authenticity can feel like, "Hey guys, ugh, I'm just beaten up right now," and d- like, you wanna be authentic and real, but when you do it in a way that blames other people or is begging for people to work with you because you really need \[00:22:30\] it right now, "Business has been hard. I really need you guys to step up and help me out," you are playing the victim, and that is not a good story. So authenticity does not mean that you show up and share everything, and that's what first mistake, because you will become a victim in the \[00:22:45\] story. Then what ends up happening is the victim, in a, in a narrative context then, if they move outside of becoming a victim, once something bad happens to them, they really have two choices. They can choose to revenge the pain, which becomes a \[00:23:00\] villain, or they can choose to redeem the pain, which is becomes the hero. I believe that villains are victims who just gave up on healing because basically they said it's too hard to try to overcome this hard thing, and so I'm gonna \[00:23:15\] put up a wall and be an asshole to everybody else because that's actually safer for me than to continue to try to heal. And so villains in a story, they often have like a, a, a scar on their face to show you they've been through hard \[00:23:30\] things, but they're trying to revenge the pain. But the thing about villains is people want them to die, right? Like, you root for the villain to die. People don't like the villain. So when you show up as a villain, I think a lot of times that can draw a lot of \[00:23:45\] attention online. Where you're showing up and, you're yelling at people and **Kris:** \[00:23:50\] you're blaming people Like Simon Cowell. Yeah Simon Cowell kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. **J.J.:** \[00:23:53\] Now, and, and he made a, he made a career out of it, but that's in entertainment. It's very entertaining. It gets attention. \[00:24:00\] Yes. But it doesn't build trust. Like- **J.J.:** \[00:24:02\] and so that's when you show up as a villain, you also make a mistake. **J.J.:** \[00:24:07\] The two ways you really wanna show up is as a hero, truthfully, with your own stories, showing that if you're just doing your story, you're showing how you are \[00:24:15\] overcoming or moving forward. Right. And then the biggest transformation is when you get to become the guide, and you actually help other people move forward. So the guide is Obi-Wan Kenobi, it's Yoda. It is the strongest character in the story. \[00:24:30\] And even though in my own life I sometimes play all four of those characters in the same day, I can be a victim and blame other people, I can be a villain and try to be angry and destroy. I can then overcome that by, in my own journey, but then really I wanna turn around and help other \[00:24:45\] people. So if, if you're showing up online as a victim or a villain, you're not gonna build your business. You need to start showing up a little bit as a hero, talking about your own journey, and then ultimately moving into the guide space, helping other people. So that's where \[00:25:00\] the mistake is being a victim and villain, you move towards hero and guide. So then, what does that look like? So how then do you show up as a guide online? Right. When, you know, let's say, you know, you and I are both marketing \[00:25:15\] consultants. We help people with their messaging. We help leaders. You and I have similar clientele. Yes. So it's like, well, if Kris is saying this, then I can't say this. How do I show up differently than Kris, and also every other marketer that's out there, and every other person that \[00:25:30\] helps entrepreneurs, and every other business coach? It can feel really overwhelming. Right. So one of the ways that I help people show up online and in their messaging is as a guide, is really kind of three different things. and \[00:25:45\] all of this is you have to show up with a point of view. That's the biggest overall arching thing here. AI does not have a point of view. Nobody else in the world has your point of view, so you need to lean into your own point of view. Right. How do you do that? The first \[00:26:00\] is with wisdom. So the way that I talk with a lot of clients is what stories in your life do you have a scar from that you transformed past, So the thing is, is that you, you have to show up with your \[00:26:15\] point of view, and the... Why that's so important in this day and age in particular is AI does not have its own point of view. It has to steal it from everybody else. So if you show up to AI without a point of view, you actually sound like everybody else. \[00:26:30\] And also, you are the only person in the world who has your point of view. You do not have mine, I do not have yours, so we have a unique voice that we can bring to the table. So how do we show up with our point of view? The first is \[00:26:45\] lean into... When, when I'm working with clients, a lot of times what I'm pulling out of them is I, I go, "All right. Let's talk about your wisdom." There's a couple different ways to approach wisdom. The first is what stories do you have where you \[00:27:00\] transformed? And often what I'm looking for is where do you have scars? And I don't mean physical, but, like, from your work and growth, because wisdom often is accompanied by a scar. So where in your life did you go through \[00:27:15\] something really hard in business or in life that then you transformed and now you can use that for other people? So, you know, one of the s- kind of the z- one of my famous stories is I was in a Missy Elliott music video. \[00:27:30\] Nobody else in the world that I know of... Well, actually, I know this fact. Nobody else was in a music video with Missy Elliott where my character's name was called Fat Michael Jackson. Nobody else in the world that happened to, right? So I can tell that \[00:27:45\] story and show up with my unique voice because it's a... The whole story, I won't get into it now, but it really, you can listen to my podcast to hear it all. But **Kris:** \[00:27:53\] it- I, I love this story ... you know, it- It's such a good story. Okay, but keep going ... **J.J.:** \[00:27:57\] it was a, it was a story where at one point I played the \[00:28:00\] victim. At one point I started, I was like, "I'm gonna burn this place down." I became a villain, then I kind of became the hero and ultimately the guide. And so I use that in my talk, but that's my story. That comes with a scar of some, a little bit of embarrassment of how I acted, and it's also \[00:28:15\] nobody else has it. So that is wisdom I can bring to the table that nobody else can bring. So even if we're, you and I are making the same point about becoming a guide, you don't have my point of view on that, so I can bring that. So where are the stories that have wisdom \[00:28:30\] that you overcame something? And then the second piece that I often will bring to this, and this is based on my academic world, is what I call layers. So in academia, you, I mentioned you have to bring something \[00:28:45\] unique and original to the table that you're studying. So if I come to my academic studies and I say, "I want to study story," that's one layer, but everybody's written about stories. So then I say, "I wanna study comedy in story." Now I've \[00:29:00\] added another layer. Then I say, "I wanna study, comedy in fiction in story." Now it's another layer. But at that point, even in the academic world, because everybody's written about everything, there is no differentiation there. I have to keep \[00:29:15\] going. And so I have to find my layers that actually create my unique area of expertise. in the academic world, you have to go about 10 layers deep. But, you know, let's say in, in a \[00:29:30\] business space, a leader is wanting to kind of influence people on culture. Let's say they wanna do culture. Well, part of what they love maybe might be Brene Brown and her work on vulnerability, but I can't talk about vulnerability in the workplace because that's really Brene \[00:29:45\] Brown. Or Simon Sinek talks about finding your why and how that can create culture. I can't talk about that. That belongs to Simon Sinek. But what if I could find a way to talk about how we can use vulnerability to \[00:30:00\] find our why that allows us to belong? Now there's three layers that now that's my unique perspective, and I can draw from Brene Brown, and I can draw from Simon Sinek, but my unique voice, my wisdom comes from the \[00:30:15\] layering of those ideas. So I'm then look, 'cause if I'm talking, like somebody comes to me and go, "I wanna write a book on leadership," great. What's your unique voice in the leadership space? Let's start with wisdom. Where are your unique stories that you learned \[00:30:30\] from? Because nobody else has those. And then second, where's your layers? Where can we put some things together that actually form your niche in this space? So that's kind of step one in how to show up as a guide. Then the second one really is the story \[00:30:45\] brand framework of become the guide. so your voice needs to have empathy, so you need to understand what everybody is going through that you're trying to serve, and you need authority. You actually need some experience, education. That can also come from the layers or \[00:31:00\] wisdom, but there's gotta be something that you can bring to the table that says, "I'm not selling this out of the back of a van," right? And typically in our world, what that means is you have the ability to solve people's problems or you have solved problems before \[00:31:15\] So that's really it. That's how you show up. Empathy for your customer's problem, and then authority to solve it. Some proof, little bit of proof. This is not making you the hero of the story, 'cause the only proof that you're showing is the proof that you can help somebody else with a problem. \[00:31:30\] So wisdom, show up as a guide, and then the last piece for me that really brings in your unique voice and point of view is something that I've been studying a lot of lately, which is joy. That I really believe that \[00:31:45\] leaders and entrepreneurs, we need to be people who practice joy. I think in the, in its most basic level, it separates us from robots. it, it makes us \[00:32:00\] human and builds connection. But the research around it to me is actually really, really fascinating. So often I think we've thought of joy, I have thought of joy as the reward for hard work. Like, you know, even in the classroom, it'd \[00:32:15\] be like, "All right, everybody settle down. Quit talking, quit laughing. We gotta get back to work." Or, you know, it's like, "Hey, you can, you can socialize and build relationship at lunch after you've worked really hard all morning," right? Or, "We're gonna throw a party \[00:32:30\] at the end of whatever." That's often when joy shows up in the workplace. But what the research actually shows is that- People who experience micro moments of joy throughout the day are actually more creative, \[00:32:45\] they're better problem solvers, they stay longer in the workplace, they accomplish more, they actually are harder workers and get more done, they're better team players. And all of that contributes to \[00:33:00\] literally the bottom line in a business. And it's the same like if you, let's say you own a boutique that people come in and buy jewelry from. You will actually have a greater return on your investments if you invest in \[00:33:15\] joy along with everything else, because people make a stronger connection, they will be more loyal. There's all of these different things that happen with joy. And what we're not talking about here when you're talking about creating micro moments of joy is not, like, just laugh all day or \[00:33:30\] just be happy. There's research around how people can experience m- joy throughout the day, and that w- there's a few different things that were surprising to me. Some of the obvious is, like, connection with somebody else, laughter, but also \[00:33:45\] whimsy. workflow, so people can actually experience joy when they're uninterrupted for a few hours and can put their head down. There's joy associated with that. Obviously, experiencing nature, surprise, creativity, doing \[00:34:00\] something that is not in your normal skill set. So there's all these very specific things that I think entrepreneurs who are leading teams can bring in. But also when you show up that way, like, so if I can do that with my team, they're gonna \[00:34:15\] be more creative and get more done, and there's more connection. But if I show up with that voice online, if I'm bringing a little bit of whimsy, if I'm bringing a little bit of beauty, like, you know, "Oh my gosh, look at this sunset. look at this cool food that I got." Like, people think that \[00:34:30\] that's, you know, "Oh, I'm not gonna watch somebody else eat something new, a new food." Well, actually, that micro moment of joy, the reason why s- people showing their food, what they're eating online is, is effective in the algorithm is because how that actually shows up in my \[00:34:45\] brain is it's something new, it's whimsical often- Right it is unique. And so when I show up with those things online, I actually build stronger connection with my audience, and I come across as more human, which the research right now is showing the more people view \[00:35:00\] you as human, the more trust they have in your brand. If you are using AI more and more, people are becoming more and more savvy to the AI language, and there's evidence right now that when people think, even if they think that you're using AI, \[00:35:15\] trust diminishes exponentially So when you're using AI, I go, "Fine, use AI, but show up with your point of view." Bring your wisdom that nobody else has, your layers and your stories. Show up as a guide with human empathy and authority, \[00:35:30\] and then bring that joy. And when you can do that, now we are showing up with a clear message, a clear point of view. Yes, we can talk about our products and services, and there needs to be some clarity there, 100%. I'm not... I don't wanna discount that. Right. \[00:35:45\] But if we don't show up as humans first, we're going to lose in this new era where AI can beat us in everything else **Kris:** \[00:35:53\] Oh my gosh. Whoa. I wanna, I wanna pause, rewind, listen to that- ... multiple times \[00:36:00\] over and over. That is so beautiful and powerful. And the joy piece I think is so essential, and it's so easy to discount or forget or not to be... Your, your words were \[00:36:15\] practice joy, which could also mean be intentional about weaving joy into your life. Like, really be proactive about **J.J.:** \[00:36:24\] it. I think we have to. It, it- Yeah ... for a lot of people right now, it doesn't feel like we should be joyful. Yeah. Like, it's- \[00:36:30\] Yeah ... the world is kind of crazy, and we all know that. Like, that's, that's the reality. And with the way that we're, like, stuck in our phones and disconnected from people, and then wars and everything else, doesn't even matter what political side of the aisle you're on. Yeah. Everything feels crazy, and it \[00:36:45\] feels almost actually, inappropriate to feel joy. But I actually believe that joy is a form of revolution, and when we can show up to something that feels likeJoy is audacious. \[00:37:00\] Do you have the audacity to show up with joy in this kind of world? Screw you. But yet, so it feels dangerous to show up with joy. It feels dangerous to jo- show up in that space, and almost irresponsible. But \[00:37:15\] actually, I really believe it's what the world needs. And beyond that, that's just being a good human side of things. But beyond that, the research actually shows when you intentionally, 'cause I think there are times I have to practice joy. \[00:37:30\] In the same way I don't feel like working out, I don't feel like eating the right foods most of the time, I don't, sometimes don't feel like showing up with a joyful attitude. But, and it, I don't want people to be fake or fake joy, but we can find those things. Like what I said, there's other \[00:37:45\] things beyond just being happy or laughing. There's can you look outside at a tree and appreciate it? Can you go for a walk and experience movement in nature? Can you find a way to surprise a partner or a spouse in your life or a child \[00:38:00\] or coworker? You get that joy. They get that joy. Try a new restaurant. When you experience something unique and new, that brings a little joy. And when you then learn to share that with others, it actually even becomes more exponentially joyful for you. There's other research \[00:38:15\] around that that we could have a whole podcast about as well. Yeah. That, like, if I go to a restaurant and h- experience joy, then the next time if I try to go back and have that same experience, my joy is actually measurably diminished. If I bring you to that \[00:38:30\] restaurant- And we have the exact same food I had the first time, my joy is actually doubled because I have my own joyful experience, but now I experience the joy of, like, being a part of you experience joy. Oh, I love that. So when we go to our favorite restaurant, we go sometimes, Jamie \[00:38:45\] and I, just by ourselves for a date night. But more often than not, we're inviting somebody new, and that's actually why it's our favorite restaurant, is because we get to experience it with so many different people. Mm-hmm. So again, this is all about the showing up and how do you show up with this \[00:39:00\] clear message, with a human message, with a lead- as a leader with a good voice. Well, the joy is for you, but it actually, when you help other people experience, you not only feel better about life, but they feel better about life, which raises trust, which \[00:39:15\] raises connection, which ultimately can result in more business. Doesn't always have to be one for one. You and I, like, are probably not going to hire each other to do work. We might. I've, I think I have hired you for work, come back to that . But, like, \[00:39:30\] you and I might not, we may not be clients for each other, but when we show up for j- with joy for each other, we actually help each other be better in the market, and then there might be referrals or there might be other projects down the line. Right. So there's so many good results that can happen from this. \[00:39:45\] **Kris:** \[00:39:45\] Oh, my gosh. It's so true. And I really feel like the clients that I work with typically are consultants, coaches, they're service providers. They're, they're kinda boots on the ground, helping their clients overcome \[00:40:00\] problems. And if I can show up with more joy, and then it's contagious, they feel a little bit more joy, and then it's, it truly is that ripple effect when you drop drop a rock into a \[00:40:15\] pond, energetically. And, and what a cool way to move through life, just intentionally-... making the world better and infusing joy into everything you do. And,what a creative problem to solve, especially \[00:40:30\] w- because they're micro moments of joy. It could just be cuddling with your dog for three minutes in the morning before you get out of bed. Yeah. I love it. So simple. So simple. Okay. So before we wrap up \[00:40:45\] today,I wanna hear about a story of a client that you worked with that came to you thinking they did not have a unique point of view. Mm. And you helped them find it. Like, how did you go about it? You've kind of walked us through it, but \[00:41:00\] I'm curious what happened for them before and after transformation? **J.J.:** \[00:41:05\] Yeah, so a lot of what I'm working on with clients, and I, I go through all of the stuff we talked about, but I'm really trying to find something, essentially, like, what can \[00:41:15\] we sell to people? Like, so there's memoirs and things like that that are really about transformation and different sto- That's different than somebody who shows up and says, I want to go in and help companies do this, but I don't know how to tell them what I can \[00:41:30\] do and make it sound valuable." So recently, I met somebody. I was doing some work in London, and I met somebody there, and then he hired me and flew over here. And he, he came to Nashville, and we spent two days together. \[00:41:45\] And His whole thing is he works with companies. His company won award for best places to work in the UK, and so he goes in and wants to help companies basically with their... his name's Matt Turner, so if you're in the UK, you can hire Matt Turner. But he goes in and \[00:42:00\] actually works with companies to help them develop cultures where people wanna stay, and they get more out of their people, and they succeed. I mean, the, the company that he was at every time they have somebody apply, hundreds of people apply, like, for that one position. So he came, and he just literally \[00:42:15\] said, like, "I've done this for 20 years." He sold his company, and now he's going in and consulting. "I've done this for 20 years," and he's like, "It just... When people ask me what makes a good culture, I don't know." And so where we started, and then he's also said, \[00:42:30\] "I feel like everybody says what I say." Like, that's really what he came to me with those two things, is like, I don't know what to say, and I, I don't know why people would pay me money, and I feel like I'm just saying what everybody else would say." And then he told me this very incredible story about \[00:42:45\] where, there was a moment... I just had him start telling me wisdom and stories, right? And so one of the stories was about this 18-year-old kid who, when they started working for him, he was sitting down, and they were in a meeting with an outside consultant who came \[00:43:00\] in. And this kid was 18 years old, just starting there, and they, he loved him, but, like, new. And the outside consultant was talking about, like, his wife and stuff like this, and he said to the 18-year-old, "So wait, are you straight or gay?" To the 18-year-old \[00:43:15\] kid. And the kid said, "I'm gay." And he had never told anybody that before. And so he was put in a position of being outed in this moment. Well, the way that Matt then ended up handling that, of \[00:43:30\] going to that consultant and said, "Hey, by the way, you're not allowed to ever say that again, and here's why," being very clear with that, but then going to the kid and making him feel very safe and basically going, "I need you to know that shouldn't have happened. I'm sorry that it happened in that way, \[00:43:45\] and also if anybody ever makes you feel that way, I, I will walk them to the door." And he was just telling it like he wasn't even telling it as part of it, and I was like, "Matt, do you understand the safety and the environment that you created there, that you allowed somebody to belong in your workplace?" \[00:44:00\] And he was like, "Yeah, but that's just what I did." And I was like, "Matt, no, no, no. Let's, like, now take that and use that wisdom that nobody else has that story. It also, there's some truth that you learned out of that that we can share with other people about creating culture that's safe and where \[00:44:15\] people belong. And now let's actually formalize that in a way that now becomes a point of what you sell." And sohe didn't think he had anything. He tells one story, and now it becomes a foundation for one of the pieces of his framework. So it's \[00:44:30\] didn't start with I have a framework. It started with I have a voice, I have a point of view, and I have a story and wisdom. And then from there, we built out a framework that now has, like, three things that he goes in and helps companies with very specifically. We \[00:44:45\] have stories aligned with all three of those, and then we actually have activities and specific steps people can take to achieve those, all based on his wisdom and his experience and point of view. But he came in with s- stories, and We have a book now \[00:45:00\] that is being proposed and then workshops based on it **Kris:** \[00:45:02\] Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And the strategic byproduct of that is that now he has very tangible offerings that don't sound like everybody's offerings, because they're \[00:45:15\] not broad and vague. They're very specific, and so he can truly deliver that, and people can truly understand it very easily and be like, "Yeah, that's what I want." **J.J.:** \[00:45:26\] And I would say the actual, even the, just if \[00:45:30\] I'm... We- we're still working on it. This happened, like, two weeks ago, so this is really fresh in my mind. But, like, we're still working on what the words are in his framework, because the words actually are a little generic, and I'm actually okay with that. Because they might sound like \[00:45:45\] things other people say. That's okay. There is sometimes truth, right? Like with StoryBrand, if we say you need a clear and compelling message, it's not like nobody in the world has never said those words before. Yes, a lot of \[00:46:00\] people say you need a com- clear and compelling message or a clear and compelling story. Okay. But then the way we show up to help people do that is different. So a lot of people think, "Oh, I need this You know, they look at somebody like Nike, and they're like, "Well, Nike has 'Just do it.' I want my 'Just do \[00:46:15\] it.'" And I'm like, "We might find that. We might not." It actually still doesn't diminish the power of your own brand and your own, products. Because that's, they're spent billions to get that to be known. Right. We don't have billions, so \[00:46:30\] we're not gonna be able to do that in that way. But if you showed up and said, you know, even in leadership, if somebody was like, "Well, in leadership you need to be authentic, you need to be bold, and you need to be a problem-solver." Great. That's fine. We can use \[00:46:45\] those three, even if other people have said those before. However, we need to find, again, your unique point of view. What are your layers to those that other people don't have? What is your experience and wisdom that you bring, your perspective that you bring to those three things \[00:47:00\] that gives you actually value? Why are people gonna pay you versus pay somebody else? Right. It's only because of your point of view and your wisdom and your experience. So you can say the three generic words, you know, I don't even remember what they were anymore, but authentic, bold, and \[00:47:15\] problem-solver. Great. That might sound like everybody else, but it won't be when you actually bring your, humanness to the table. **Kris:** \[00:47:21\] Totally. this reminds me of, I've done in my, in my background, I've done a fair amount of art, painting, drawing. That's \[00:47:30\] alwaysbeen my fun hobby. And in the classes that I've taken, often they'll put up a painting that is very well-known, like Van Gogh or, you know, who knows? Probably not Van Gogh, but like some other ones. A \[00:47:45\] vase and an apple. And, and as hard as I try, I can't recreate that original. It's like your voice and your point of view are inherent, and Even if \[00:48:00\] you tried not to have it, it's in there, and it really wants to come out. **J.J.:** \[00:48:04\] And it's beautiful. That's the thing, is like- Yes V- let Van Gogh be Van Gogh. Great. Right. But, like, we don't need another Van Gogh. We need another Kris. And so what w- \[00:48:15\] your... That's the even thing more about it, is I think one of the things, this is where Badass Softie really has come in for me in a lot of ways, is because I think a lot of times earlier in my career, and even sometimes mid and late in my career, I felt like I needed to sound \[00:48:30\] and be like everybody else. If I'm gonna show up in a room with say like Jeff Bezos or, Elon Musk, who are put up there as like these business tycoons who are billionaires and all this stuff, if I'm most honest, I don't wanna be like them. I don't actually like the \[00:48:45\] way that they lead. I can learn a ton from them. Like, I have learned a ton from their styles and from their boldness and all these different things, but I actually don't wanna be like them. And if I try to show up and be a leader like them, and try to build a business like them, \[00:49:00\] I'm going to be a poor facsimile. It's not gonna look good, and I also am gonna be miserable in the process. My superpower is leaning into my own voice, and that's where the beauty arises. And am I gonna connect to the same people maybe that Jeff \[00:49:15\] Bezos and Elon Musk do? No. But the honest truth is I don't want to. I don't actually wanna be in those rooms, so why am I trying to pretend to be like them? Mm. So be my own voice and lean into my own voice, and that's where my superpower is, and then that's also where I will find \[00:49:30\] my room, the rooms I want to be in, the people I want to work with. Because if I'm modeling after them, I'm gonna find people that are like them, and I don't wanna be like them. So stop it. **Kris:** \[00:49:42\] if someone's listening today and is really \[00:49:45\] resonating with what you're talking about, and they're like, "Okay, what are my layers? What is my wisdom?" What's a question they can ask themself? Like, what did you ask your client to pull out those stories that he shared with you? **J.J.:** \[00:49:59\] \[00:50:00\] Yeah. So the, the first thing is always like, what are the stories you always go to? Like, when it comes to business. Those, start there. Because you've used them before, you know they work. But what you have to kind of form them into is this idea of what, where was the moment where the scar happened, like \[00:50:15\] the wound happened, and how did the healing begin, right? And so essentially that feels very dramatic and, but it can be as small as, you know, the very first time as a leader, the very first time I gave an employee review, um, I thought I was \[00:50:30\] super clear. I walked out of there being super proud of myself, and the person quit the next day. My ego was crushed, right? So like there's just... It doesn't have to be this like I was devastated and over- You know, it can be like, "Wow, that was bad," you know? Or I remember the first time I \[00:50:45\] organized an event and nobody showed up. You know, or only five people showed up. We had a great time, but only five people showed up. Well, that's a moment where a wound kind of happened in you, and then you began the process of healing that wound and learning how to protect yourself from future wounds.\[00:51:00\] So really it's like what are those stories you go to often that get a good response and make good connections? Start there, and make sure that you're finding those moments of where something bad happened and here's how I grew. And then you can kind of from there expand out on other \[00:51:15\] things. Where are moments that I learned something? 'Cause even my Missy Elliott story, it used to just be a really funny story that I told about when I was in this music video and they called me Fat Michael Jackson. And it killed at parties, and it was just like a \[00:51:30\] fun anecdote kind of thing. When I actually thought back on it through a new lens, I discovered what I did learn, but I had to think what did I learn from that story? Not, "Isn't that a funny story that I was in Missy Elliott?" I had to go, what did I learn from that and how have I changed \[00:51:45\] because of it? That's when that story begins to matter. And so that's where I start is like, what are the stories that have always worked for you or that always come to mind? How do we put those in a framework that allows you to see what you learned from it? And we have to be honest. You \[00:52:00\] can't make it up. It has to be real or people will s- smell that. And then we start building from there. And then same kind of thing, I will say, like, often it'll be like, "All right, so I wanna speak on authenticity in leadership." And I will go, "Okay, but \[00:52:15\] what's your unique take on that?" Or, "What does everybody else get wrong?" That's often how I will do it is what does everybody else get wrong about authenticity in leadership? Because then you can say, "Well, everybody thinks authenticity is this, but it's really this." Ah, there we go. Now we have your point of \[00:52:30\] view, and we have an angle. Now we look for a story that can back that up that illustrates it to make it more interesting and bring more authority into that space, and then we have to quantify it in a way that actually can sell. **Kris:** \[00:52:43\] you are brilliant. \[00:52:45\] You are... Wow. Okay, mic drop moment. Dr. JJ, where can we find you online? **J.J.:** \[00:52:52\] Well, if you're interested in more discussions like this, a lot of them you can listen to me at Badass Softie, you... podcast wherever you listen to \[00:53:00\] podcasts. And then, drjjpeterson.com. So D-R-J-J peterson.com is my website where people reach out to me if they're interested in getting some help. I work with businesses like you, and then I also, one of the areas I'm kind of in right now is helping \[00:53:15\] kind of leaders take their thought leadership and turn it into frameworks, books, keynotes, and like courses, things, products they can sell. **Kris:** \[00:53:24\] Mm, beautiful. Beautiful work. Well, thank you for being here. It's been really, really fun. **J.J.:** \[00:53:29\] Oh, thanks \[00:53:30\] for having me. **Kris:** \[00:53:31\] Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all \[00:53:45\] for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time *A Boutique StoryBrand Marketing Studio in Beautiful Portland, Oregon* Get the 5 StoryBrand Soundbites That Will Attract More Clients - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - [StoryBrand Book Pre-Order](/storybrand) - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Secret Resources](/free-resources) - The two rules that decide whether your brand story influences anyone, backed by narrative research - Why making your business the hero has been proven to reduce your impact, not raise it - The four characters showing up in your content, and the two that quietly cost you trust - A repeatable way to find your own point of view when AI has flattened everyone else's - [Client Results](/see-my-work) - [Free Resources](/free-resources) - [Blog](/blog)