The Real Business Growth Strategy Is Managing Energy, with Debbie Heiser

[00:00:00] Welcome to From Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Kris Jones, story brand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story.

Kris: Debbie Heiser, thank you so much for being here today. I am delighted to have you on the show, and I know everybody listening is gonna walk away with some really good nuggets that are gonna make their life and business better.

So you have a business called Lit Up Life. Tell us more about the business, your background. W- what do you help your clients do?

Debbie: Okay, so I'm gonna start a little farther back and tell you a little bit about where I started. I am an education major by trade. I started a pilot program in the State of Missouri, in the juvenile detention centers, and, think the movie Freedom Writers.

It's a little bit older movie, but think that, [00:01:00] and that was kind of what I did is, which help them change perspective. Did that for a year, and then I started with Sprint, and I sold Yellow Pages. So I'm aging myself just a little bit. Some of your listeners may not know what Yellow Pages are. but the reason I bring that up is I had a manager who told me, "You're not selling Yellow Pages.

You're really helping people with their hopes, wishes, and dreams, because if you can bring them more clients, then they're making more money. They're able to do the things that they want to do and have financial freedom." Well, fast-forward, and that's what I'm doing today. It's just not in selling Yellow Pages, right?

It's in coaching. So I spent 20-plus years in corporate America. I was an executive then at Sprint publishing and advertising. It was a subsidiary of Sprint. Then I, moved over, because Yellow Pages obviously went into a decline, I moved over to Citibank, which is a, a huge, you know, worldwide international company.

I was five down from the CEO. Really loved, the people I worked with. I'm not a big huge [00:02:00] fan of credit cards and student loans, which was the main area I was in. I was in retail banking as well. And so then when they decided to move a lot of their operations to Tucson, they said I could move to Tucson, but they didn't need someone at my level sitting in Kansas City, and I said, "No, thanks.

I don't like hot weather." So I moved to North Idaho, and I became the CFO of a small business, which really I think was some divine intervention too and how the universe works, because I had always wanted to own a business and start a business. And when I moved here in 2014, that's when I started the business, and it was actually called Three Vines Consulting and Development, Leadership Development.

And so many people thought I was a consultant for wineries. Now, don't get me wrong, I love a good glass of wine. But that is not what I do. so I decided to make a name change, and I changed it to The Lit Up Life. And partially because of my life experience, I had this realization growing up in the Midwest, there's nothing wrong with the Midwest, but there is a mentality in different parts of the [00:03:00] country.

And in that part of the country, what you did was you went to high school, you graduated, you went to college or went into the military. You then found a really good corporate job, and you worked nine... Well, it's not 8:00 to 5:00, I'm sorry. But 8:00 to 5:00, Monday through Friday. You got married, you had children.

Like, that was just the way of life.

Kris: Yeah. It

Debbie: was a great life, but I wanted more. And so I realized that I wasn't leading a lit up life, I was leading a life based on what I thought I should do. So I just feel like life is too short to not be lit up and not be happy about it. Now, are there days that I do work or do things that I don't love to do?

Absolutely. But those are very few and far between, and it really... I think life is too short not to be fueled with passion, right? Yeah.

Kris: 100%. Yeah. So when you started the consulting business, how has that evolved, other than you changed the name of it? After doing that work and all the things that we learn when we start to run our own [00:04:00] business, how has that business evolved over the years?

Debbie: Yeah. Thank you for asking, Kris. When I first started out, it was a side gig. It was a hobby. I did that for, oh gosh, almost, well, about seven or eight years I did that as a side gig in my, and my CFO job. And in 2021, my boss, who she and I were good friends, through unfortunate circumstances, her mother was the primary owner.

She was killed in an airplane accident 14 days after I... Or not 14 days, but about two and a half months after I moved to Idaho. So we had been through a lot of things. I was used to everything being an 800 number. So I really learned a lot about running a small business, and it wasn't small. We had 60 employees in, multiple different states.

But- I ended up doing all of the things that I had never done before, which again, the way the universe works, right, prepped me to do that. So when I stepped fully in, I was making about 38K, and then in 18 months I was at a quarter of a million and haven't looked back. And so [00:05:00] I use that as one measure because it shows that when you commit, and you're doing what you love, and you're doing those things, it works, right?

Like, the things happen. So what I've seen evolve, and I will tell you I'm on a little bit of a rant right now about this, is I really feel like we in the coaching industry did a disservice to people in the past where... And I think the state of the world today is creating this almost lack of trust, but where you're having to build trust and really show that you can give results.

Where it used to be, "Oh, you can make a million dollars in one month." Okay. Well, you can, but there's a cost opportunity or an opportunity cost to that, and usually that's not a holistic look at your whole life. And, you know, so I've seen that evolve. I've always come from that place of we wanna look at the whole picture, but I unwind a l- I've got a lot of people that have been in coaching, they're nervous about having a coach because they've had experiences where they thought they would get to a certain point...

I was just having this conversation actually with my marketing person [00:06:00] yesterday, that w- we say, yeah, from a logistics and the logic perspective you can get there, but until... Like, part of your message is about telling stories. Until we get to the deep part of the stories that are running our lives, w- it's hard to change.

And we're so... I mean, I'm a business coach and I have a coach. I have two or three coaches. Because we get so close to our, our areas that we don't even realize. And I giggle because people will say to me, "Oh, good. I've taken care of that." I'm like, "You know. Sorry." It's an onion. It just keeps showing up.

It's the onion. Right. Right? Every time you level up it shows up a little differently, which is why it gets sneaky.

Kris: Mm-hmm.

Debbie: And so I've seen that evolution happen, where now I'm seeing the coaches that would promise all sorts of things are fading away. Right. And you're seeing the coaches that do make a real difference that, you know, work with people that want to transform, and not just transform, but they realize transformation includes [00:07:00] change.

I've seen a lot of people where they want the transformation- Mm ... but they don't want the change and some of the work that goes along with it.

Kris: Right. And I think half the battle, to your point, is just a lot of that stuff is so close to us, it's happening unconsciously. We're not even-

aware. We're not even aware of those stories or those beliefs. And so how do you become aware of kind of the default network that's running your life, essentially? Yeah, where do you begin with that? Like, how would we identify what's keeping me from my... The freedom that I wanna experience, whether it's time freedom or any other-

kind of freedom?

Debbie: Yeah. First of all, I mean, it's so simple that it's almost, like, laughable, right? But I want to say, too, that it's not simple in the fact that it is completely subconscious. And because we think it's in our conscious brain, we then beat ourselves up because we should have known something.

And I say if you're should-ing on yourself, that's your critical parent. That, like, get rid of that because what [00:08:00] happens is it lowers your vibration, and then we find evidence to support our beliefs. Right? So the subconscious is what creates our beliefs and our identity, so if we don't unwind that identity...

So then the simplistic piece of this, Kris, is honestly you just have to become aware, because once you're aware, you can't go back.

Now, you can. You can stick your head in the sand, and I've seen people do that, but ultimately it all boils down to fear, and fear is nothing more than false evidence appearing real.

So we build evidence, and the way... I geek out on neuroscience. Mm. I have some friends that you know, too, that geek out on neuroscience- Mm-hmm ... and we geek out together on it. But what happens is the brain is always looking to predict and protect.

So if you had anything happen to you in your past that was scary, that potentially put you on edge, you're constantly scanning, right?

Mm. So your nervous system is on hyperdrive a lot, and many of us are on hyperdrive. And so then what [00:09:00] happens is we don't trust the hits that we get from the universe.

Kris: Right.

Debbie: And so the biggest piece of that is becoming aware, and then honestly, working with someone. It doesn't even have to be a coach. It could be a trusted counselor.

It could be... But have somebody in your life that tells you the truth-

Kris: Yeah ...

Debbie: that says, "Wait a minute. Is that really true?" Like, let's talk through that.

Kris: C- can you help me understand the difference between identifying a thought- Mm-hmm ... identifying a belief, and identifying an identity? Like, tell me how they're different, how they're related.

Debbie: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so if you imagine a circle as your brain, right? And the top half, if you just put a line in the middle of that, the top half is your conscious brain. So your conscious brain can accept messages, it can deflect and say, "Nope. Okay, Debbie, you said this, but I don't necessarily agree with you," and then it can create and innovate.

Now, this is a very simplistic version of neuroscience- Yeah ... right? So keep that in mind. But when you look at the subconscious brain, the subconscious brain [00:10:00] cannot deflect messages. So, huh, I wonder why I couldn't fall asleep at night when I was watching The Walking Dead, right, in bed, right?

Because your subconscious brain is taking in all of the things that you've done throughout your day, all of the things that you've done in your history, and trying to make sense of it based on our filters. Mm. So a thought, and it's not really cut and dry either, which is what makes this kind of an interesting piece- Nuance

of work.

The thoughts that come to us are usually given to us by something, right? Because it's a message that comes into our brain. If you think about, and if you have not been around a baby, please go hang out with some babies, just like puppies, right? Because they are all emotion. They are... They're happy one minute, and then they're crying because their diaper's wet and they're uncomfortable.

Like, they don't, they don't have filters. You can start to see the filters. I have a five-year-old grandson, and I'm seeing the filters of, okay, am I gonna fit into the tribe if I'm not funny?

Oh, I need [00:11:00] to be humor- right? So we learn, we pick up these things. So thoughts become words, right? And actions.

So the thoughts come into the subconscious brain. We start to create beliefs around those based on we see evidence over and over again, and partially because if I have a thought come in from, like, a loved one, particularly a parent, our parents do w- the best they can, but we might have a loyalty pact with them.

Like, as an example, my mom passed away of breast cancer at the age of 58. She swore it was the stress of owning her own business, and non-bioidentical hormones. So guess who had a hard time? I told you I started my business in 2014. I didn't step in full time until 2021, right? Because I had this subconscious belief from a message I got from her that if I owned my own business, I was gonna die.

So that's the subconscious belief, and that became a part of my identity. So I can't step in and own a f- [00:12:00] full-time business. Right? Because my identity is someone that doesn't, because I don't wanna die- Right ... of breast cancer.

Kris: And so that would be, if you were not aware of that, you might sabotage your own business because- Absolutely

on a deep level, you're like, "I don't wanna die." So-

Debbie: Absolutely ... good, good,

Kris: good, good ...

Debbie: and I did. Okay. And I did, right? Because then what happens too, I call those double binds. Then what happens is I had a loyalty pact with her, because I don't wanna make her wrong, right? I loved her, and I, it, like, you almost saint-ize people when they first pass too, right?

So, I don't wanna make her wrong, so if I do have a business that's super successful and I'm in it full time and I don't die of breast cancer, then I'm making her wrong. Mm. Now, that's an untruth, but that's how our brain works.

Kris: Yeah.

Debbie: So the thoughts come in, they turn into beliefs that create our identity.

And I will tell you, Kris, it took a coach helping me, and I'm not saying that because I am a coach, but to help me unwind that, right? I mean, I have a lot of really smart friends that are [00:13:00] counselors, a lot of really smart friends that do a ton of different things, but it took someone really objective and not tied to that to see the untruth of that.

Kris: And

Debbie: then- And it shows up-

Kris: And then what did you do? D- is, is it as simple as, "Oh, that might not be true for me"? Yeah. Is it

Debbie: that simple? It kind of is. It, now, I say that cheek and tongue because we make everything complex. I don't know if you've read the book Letting Go by David Hawkins, but he says, "I don't even need to write the book if people just listen to me and let s- stuff go."

Right? Like, it is that simple to just make the decision in your head. So it took some coaching from my coach to say, "Does this resonate with you?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And for her to say, "That's not true. Like, what is the truth about that? Are you gonna die of breast cancer? Well, we don't know. We don't know our future.

We can only be present. Are you going to make your mom wrong if you're successful? No, she wants me to be successful." right? So it [00:14:00] just took changing, and sometimes I'll take my glasses off and put them back on to say, "I need a shift in perspective."

Kris: I love that.

Debbie: Right? As a physical reminder.

So it's just- Yeah ... that shift in perspective, but then also I do think it's important to have someone in your corner that believes in you more than you do. Because then I could borrow some of that belief from her to say, "Just keep reminding me," 'cause your brain, it's like water buffalo going to a watering hole, right?

Like, if you think about the neuroscience and the neuroplasticity and all of those pathways, right? So the water buffalo keeps going to the same watering hole the same way, so they've built a big groove.

So the same thing happens in our brain. Well, then one day one water buffalo says, "I'm gonna go around and try this way," but there's no path.

He does that or she does that a couple of times, and then it's like, "Whoa, I gotta get back to the groove." Our brains do the same thing Mm ... but then they go back to that, and it's that constant space repetition then of creating that new neural pathway so that we don't go back to the groove [00:15:00] one because it feels comfortable.

Kris: And so when you create a new thought or a new belief or even- Yeah ... a new identity, how do you really get the new groove made? Do you write it down? I'm, it, this is different than affirmations, right? Yeah. This is really just, do you just practice? I'm a big fan of Brooke Castillo. I love her model for changing your thoughts, and, again, is it as simple as writing down a new thought and then just practicing that until you really believe it and, and internalize it?

Debbie: Yes, and Kris, I will say an added step to that that I do with clients at both retreats and in person, or like if I'm working with somebody personally, is we go through some meditations where I have people envision... Because first of all, when we say the future, we don't really know what the future's gonna hold for us, and that we already are that person.

We just don't believe it yet, right?

So what I try to do, because what I see missing with affirmations, they're good with the brain, but what [00:16:00] happens is we don't embody it, so we don't know what it feels like. Mm. So I walk through some meditations with people about being on a big screen, and you go be that person that you want to be, doing the things that you want to do, so the being part and the doing part.

And I have people really feel that in your body, 'cause your body knows better than your brain.

Kris: And so then once they embody that, we actually spend some time in that, and I have them really feel into that. And when I say feel, I mean where do you feel it in your body, not emotion. Emotion is how we make sense of feelings.

Debbie: And so I really try to focus on that because when I start to doubt or I start to wanna go back to that same path to the watering hole, my body knows what it feels like to be and do what it is that I'm trying to achieve. Now, why that's important is we have to maintain... If we do nothing else, it's maintaining the vibration of that woman.

Right? Somebody actually just asked me today, [00:17:00] "Hey, so I know you're open to dating now. What are you looking for?" And I said, "You know, I used to have a list of like physical attributes. I used to have a list of personalities. That list is very short now, just a couple things. But ultimately, it's not about the list.

It's about who do I wanna be in a relationship. How do I wanna show up? Because I have to be in that vibration to attract the person that's gonna bring that out of me too- That's gonna be a match. Does that make sense?

Kris: Oh, totally. 100%. Yeah.

Debbie: Yeah.

Kris: Yeah.

Debbie: So I know I just gave you a whole lot, but it's really too about, it is about the affirmations because we, our brain doesn't know the difference between truth and a lie.

Kris: We filter it, right? So if, if we can then, if we can trick our brains with lies, we can also hack our brains with things that are the truth that we want to happen. But we really have to understand how it feels in our body, and I've s- I've seen... You were talking about evolution of coaching.

Debbie: I've [00:18:00] seen more and more people looking at this, like, somatic experience, and where does it feel in the body? I mean, we've all had that before, where the hair on the back of your neck sticks up and your brain hasn't completely identified what it is yet, but your body knows-

Kris: Mm-hmm ... and

Debbie: it's saying, "Leave this situation."

Kris: Yeah, and, and it's a practice to really acknowledge that, feel it and trust it as well.

Debbie: Yeah, I think you just summarized what I do.

Kris: Yeah.

Debbie: Because, you know, we were talking a little bit about slowing down to speed up, and I think that's a big piece. Like, when I do any kind of work in person, like if I have a VIP day, we start out with a nature walk, because nature tells us all sorts of things, and it's partially to slow that down so that we're not in that fight or flight mode, which we tend to all be in quite a bit.

Yeah.

Kris: Yeah. Before we hit record, we talked about, a lot of people who run their own [00:19:00] business, are productive people doing well, are operating in fifth gear, and when you're in fifth gear for a long time, it can feel really uncomfortable to downshift. And I know this is really fundamental to the work that you do.

So I'd love to hear, like, an actual story of a client that came to you. What were they complaining about? What was not working in their life, and then what did you end up doing to, to change that?

Debbie: Wow. I'm trying to think of, 'cause there's a lot of really good examples, and the one that keeps dropping to me is a client, who's a real estate agent, and she was in the mastermind and then also a private client of mine, and she and both her husband are now, private clients.

And honestly, like, what she complained about most was money, and I have a lot of people that get [00:20:00] into that, right? And wh- when we dig around and start to uncover something, we realize that the fear around that is, is there gonna be enough? Are we gonna be able to back away from this business and have enough to survive?

Maslow's hierarchy, right? Mm-hmm. So I will tell you, sometimes they're complex because we're human, and there's this web of things to unwind. So we have unwound all sorts of different things. She's a real estate agent, and so I do have permission to share. I'm not gonna share her name, but she's told me I could share her story, and she's done testimonials.

And she also realized that part of this money story had to do... Something had happened to her in her life, she wasn't sure what. Now I'm not a counselor, so I send people to counselors. But somewhere in the fall something had happened, and then always in the winter she got into this really clenchy, real estate agents don't make any money in the winter message, right?

So I had her come up early, 'cause she was coming to one of my retreats, [00:21:00] and we went out to my lake that's right out my door here, and we threw rocks and screamed, "F you." She named what the anger was that she had about it and released it, because physically releasing something helps to do that. Yeah.

And then w- I looked at her and I said, "Is it true that real estate agents can't make money in fourth quarter?" She said, "No, it's not, but that's the message that our whole entire industry says." I go, "Okay, so you just became aware of that. You just claimed that is an untruth, so things are gonna shift for you."

She actually ended up selling more real estate last... in fourth quarter last year than she did the entire year in 2025, and she's super successful. Right? So that's just one example. There were multiple things that we had to get over, right? Part of the fear, she didn't like to spend money to travel, and she was afraid to travel.

Well, we went to Costa Rica as our first trip, and she had to navigate that all by herself, right? Forgot her medicine, we had to navigate. Like, she had to navigate all of [00:22:00] these things. And so then she started to believe in herself. So there's all sorts of things- Mm-hmm ... that s- if you can work on those kinda simultaneously, you see a, a much faster leap than if you're just trying to linearly kinda take care of each situation, if that makes sense.

Kris: Hmm. Yeah.

Debbie: Yeah.

Kris: Yeah. Oh, what a cool story. Yeah, thank you ... the physicalness of, like, throwing the stone into the lake and yeah, really defining it physically and so you can be like, "Oh, we did that, and I'm walking away from that lake, and that is behind me." Yeah. So

Debbie: cool. And, you know, s- things that she let go of had to do with family relationships, with, you know, things occurring in her life that had happened in the past with people, leaving their agency and starting their own and becoming compet- like, all of these different things that she just let go of, and it, it opens up space for us to receive.

Kris: Right.

Debbie: Yeah. [00:23:00]

Kris: Tell me about a client that you've worked with that came to you overwhelmed. I'm asking for a friend. I'm kidding. they came to you overwhelmed, not enough time, hard to downshift. What... How do you unravel that really, I truly can relate to this. Like, I- Yeah ... I get a lot of shit done.

Yeah. I like productivity. And, and it is really hard for me to kind of stop and appreciate the nature around me sometimes.

Debbie: Yeah. So let me think about a client. Most clients do have a time story of one shape or another. It's time, money, and control, and I hate to say it, but we're never in control, right? And when we can let go of that, that's, like, a huge relief.

Yeah. but when it comes to time, and I resonate with this too, time for me was always the thing, and my coach one time said to me, I said, [00:24:00] "Well, I wanna wait to do this until after my son gets married, and, you know, we're busy with the wedding stuff." And she looked at me, and she's like, "Do you think so-and-so waits for their kids to get married to do business?"

I'm like, "No, you're right. That's just part of my life," right? So part of what happens with time is we have to understand we're not managing time. I help people see we're managing energy.

And if you start to think about what gives you energy, and I have people make a list of this. So I'll think of one particular person, that, she was in the medical field, and she literally didn't have a lot of time because the place she worked really, mandated when she could be there, and they had to, like, book out for an entire year, right?

It wasn't something that... It was very time committed. Right. So when we started to look at manage- and she wanted to start this coaching business and do coaching and podcasts and everything.

So when we started to look [00:25:00] at it and understand that, okay, when you look at energy, what sucks your energy from you?

What takes away from your energy and drains you, and what gives you energy? It became very apparent that job, and I'm not a firm believer to quit a W-2 job right away, 'cause we have double binds that we want security more than our own business sometimes. Mm-hmm. So she's like, "I need to let go of this job, and I need to unwind my identity from who I am is a part of that job," because we in the Western world do that.

And so we went through the practice of unwinding that, really went through the practice also of unwinding messages that she didn't know what she was doing, right? The confidence, the lack of confidence. Then we started to look at what brought her energy- Now, she still loved what she did from the medical field, so she still tapped into that, but now she travels and goes one week a month- to go do these things, [00:26:00] right? And sometimes it's once every six weeks or so, and she gets to control the schedule with it. She gets to talk to them about it. She's on call, so she can still do other things that bring her energy in it, and she loves working with the patients.

So there's that, right? So we, identifying then what brings you that, and then all of a sudden the door starts to open when you look at, energy and managing energy.

Now they own multiple different locations that they Airbnb and that she can now do retreats out of. She's running retreats both locally, domestically, and internationally. She has women following her. She's doing frequency scanner stuff. you know, like, the door has just opened for her, and she's the type of person that has to have a lot of diversity in what she does.

And that opened that ability to have all of that diversity in her life, and so now she's making more money than she did in her W-2 job. She has more time to spend with her now teenage kids, going to the things that she never got to do. So to me, [00:27:00] that's about the lit up life. Even if she was making less money, she's happier because she's able to be present.

So if you can make a list of what brings you energy, what doesn't bring you energy... Now, here I will tell you, I love me some good Bridgerton. I hate entering mileage into QuickBooks, and I will never say I love entering mileage into QuickBooks. But if I can combine watching Bridgerton and entering mileage from my calendar into QuickBooks- That's

Kris: a hack

Debbie: I've just stacked something I like, right? That's a hack.

Kris: Yeah, that's a hack. Yeah,

Debbie: that's a good one. Absolutely. Or I've started taking coffee connections, like if I have local people reach out to me and say, "Hey, let's connect for coffee," I'm like, "What if we went for a walk instead?"

Kris: I love that.

Debbie: Let's get out into nature. Let me take my dog, get some energy off of him. Mm. And so it's about kind of looking at things a little differently, and once you let go of the time thing... Now, I get it, some people have jobs that there's certain time constraints. But really start looking [00:28:00] at the energy piece, because if you can start to slough off the th- 'Cause usually what happens is people have a longer list of what sucks the energy than what they do, what brings them energy.

Kris: Right.

Debbie: Or they have desires that they wanna spend more time with their family, and then I ask the question, particularly if it's extended family, "Do you really?" Like, it- Mm ... does that suck your energy? Does it give you energy?

Sometimes it's one way, sometimes it's the other. Mm-hmm. But, like, really looking at that starts to change then what you do, which then changes how you manage your time.

Kris: Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. I, I love- Yeah ... I love the way you- teach these concepts that are-

Debbie: Oh, thank you ...

Kris: kind of elusive, and now they feel much more tangible. Yeah. I'm curious about things like, I wanna talk about visibility a little bit. Okay. 'Cause I work with a lot of coaches and consultants, and part of getting out there and becoming visible, or part of getting [00:29:00] clients is about becoming visible.

Debbie: Absolutely.

Kris: And, and there's a lot that comes up for people around this. People are kind of in their comfort zone. They're afraid to put themselves out there. They don't wanna be criticized or whatever. Fill in the blank. They're afraid around that, or they feel like they're an imposter. I mean, there's so much going on, and I'll just tell you, like, from my own, my own experience part of having a business, for me, involves reaching more people.

So I guest on a lot of podcasts, and I get to meet new people that way. I also obviously have my own podcast, which took a while for me to get to this point. But I feel like I love this work, and when I did my very first podcast, I called my partner and I said, "I was born for this." I love it. I just love it.

Like, I get to channel my inner Oprah and- Yeah ... ask questions and have meaningful conversations and [00:30:00] meet new people. And yet paired with that ha- is this belief system that I have around visibility, and I've, I've overcome it in many ways, but I also find myself wrestling with it. Like, I, it's not fully resolved.

For example, today I had to do a... I'm noticing my language. I had to do a, a solo episode for my podcast, which I prefer the conversations than I do the solo episodes just because- Yeah ... they feel more effortless. The solo episodes I have to plan a little bit more. They involve a little more e- executive function.

Yeah. and it's not as fun to just speak into the camera as it is to have a conversation. So I'm like I'm... I don't know. I'm watching myself do these gymnastics around procrastinating, avoiding, pushing it [00:31:00] back. Poor Jamie, my assistant, is always, like, putting it in my calendar, "Must have today," 'cause it keeps getting shifted.

And so I'm curious, like, I would love your take on that because it's definitely a mixture of things. Yep. On one hand I love it, and I know from a deep place I wanna be doing that, and then I also I'm watching myself have these behaviors that are muddying up things internally, or making it harder than it needs to be.

Debbie: Yeah. Okay. So Kris, I'm gonna start off somewhere else, and then I'm gonna end up in visibility if you're k- okay with that.

Kris: I love it. Yep.

Debbie: So what would happen for you if you stopped doing solo episodes, and you just had conversations with people that ultimately allowed you to talk about your messaging and their messaging at the same time?

Versus just an interview, right? Not just, but like- Right ... interview situations- A more structured ... [00:32:00] you try to highlight.

Kris: Yep.

Debbie: Yeah. But what if you did interviews, and then instead of, since you like to have the conversation and collaborate what says you have to have solo episodes?

Kris: I don't know.

Maybe I don't need to do that. Yeah.

Debbie: Yeah. No, I bring that up, and thank you for being open to that on your podcast- I, I love, I like that

Kris: direction ... and the vulnerability.

Debbie: Yeah. Right? And the vulnerability of that, because that's what I mean about managing energy.

Kris: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Debbie: Because it was visible, for those of you watching the video, hopefully you saw it too, but like it was visible, and even in your voice, like the tone of your voice changed, where it's like, "Ugh," right?

It's just like- Yeah ... ugh, trying to do something that you really dislike. Get rid of it.

Kris: Yeah.

Debbie: Change it to do something that you love.

Kris: Yeah,

Debbie: tweak it. And I get-

Kris: Right? Absolutely. Tweak it. It doesn't have to be... I don't have to throw it in the garbage, but what would remove all that effort from it?

Debbie: And to me, it immediately came to me that you... Like, if you're looking at loving to do interviews with people such as me, then also look at how can you [00:33:00] have people maybe like you and I, hopping on a podcast where we just riff on each other.

Kris: Mm-hmm.

Debbie: Right? And that way your message is still getting out.

Now, I say that because that's that whole thought process around beliefs. Somewhere in there you have a belief that it needs to go that way. I get it. That's how I do mine, too. When I'm not feeling inspired, I'm like, "Guess what? We need to book another guest." Because there are plenty of ways to interact with me, right?

Kris: Right. Yeah.

Debbie: And so it's just now becoming aware of that. Your brain is gonna start thinking of ways to do it differently.

So the visibility piece for me in that situation with you isn't so much about visibility, but just maybe even a lack of inspiration sometimes, trying to come up with things to talk about.

Yeah. Right?

Kris: Yeah.

Debbie: Yeah. And so from a visibility perspective, it is simply brain science again, because somewhere in our lives we were taught that it's not okay, children must be silent, right? Like, children need to be seen and not heard. Like, all of these messages that we get that tell us [00:34:00] not to be on the forefront.

Any time someone's successful, you think about this, my son and I were talking about this the other day, 'cause he's a big Kansas City Chiefs fan. We're from Kansas City originally. So all of a sudden he says to me, he's an eighth grade science teacher, "You know, Mom, it's really funny. When I was in school everybody hated the Patriots, and now they all hate the Chiefs."

Because they're doing well. They're successful.

So part of that visibility is about messaging around being successful.

We hear it everywhere. If I'm out there being visible... I mean, I even had a really, like one of my very best friends say to me, "Why do you feel like you have to put everything out on Facebook?"

Well, I don't feel like I have to put everything out there. I am strategic about what I share, and sometimes, just this morning I did a video in my bathrobe and said, "Guess what? You're getting me the way you're getting me." And because it's a part of my business, right? And interestingly enough, she kinda came at me about it being a business, but now she's shifting from doing counseling and doing life coaching and being more visible on [00:35:00] Facebook, 'cause she's understanding it now, right?

Mm-hmm. But even the people closest to us will make comments. Now, ultimately, it's either a fear that they don't want you to be hurt, 'cause they see trolls and all of these things, so I always try to come at it from the place of they're looking out for our best interest. Mm-hmm. But there's also a tinge of jealousy there.

Because we are someone else's vision board.

Right? So we're, what we're doing on podcasts, what we're doing to be visible, other people have that on their vision board to do. And so I, the visibility, there's so many layers to that, and Kris, I coach a lot on the visibility piece, and I struggle with it.

I mean, I tell my story, but I don't go to the depths all the time, and I just came back from a conference and I'm like, "You know what? Screw this. People are gonna start getting me unhinged." I'm not gonna be the corporate bow on the box anymore, because it's just not as relevant. Right. We're all a complete mess.[00:36:00]

And we can have our shit together at the same time.

Kris: Totally. Yeah.

Debbie: Yeah. So the visibility- It's so refreshing ... yeah, thank you. And Kris, the visibility thing is really, that one has multiple different avenues- Mm ... because people are taught different things. But what I just said to you is primarily kind of a lot of what I see come in as like a trend.

Yeah.

Kris: Mm. Okay. Um-

Debbie: And also, just really quickly, Kris, if you think about it, way back when, if you got kicked out of your tribe, you died. So there's also generational things that come into this and DNA kind of things that, you know, if I do something and I'm kicked out of my tribe, similar to me, and I have family members that have lost weight and all of a sudden, "Is she anorexic?"

Right? Like, "She doesn't fit in. She's not like all of us that are 30 pounds over what we should be," right? Mm-hmm. So it's interesting that how sometimes that kicks in too, that we're afraid we're gonna get kicked out of the tribe, whether it be friendship tribes- For sure ... whether it be family tribes, whatever that is.

Yeah.

Kris: Completely. And then- [00:37:00] usually people have a situation where they publicly got embarrassed or humiliated or- Yeah ... failed in front of others, and then of course the brain and body is gonna go, "Do not repeat that mistake." but in order to, do the work we're here to be aligned with our own purpose, we do have to do that.

So there's just, there's a lot internally, there's a lot of internal work in this whole- Yeah ... entrepreneurial gig.

Debbie: The, Kris, you have nailed it, because- Yeah ... you know, I say I help entrepreneurs make a lot of money doing what they love to do without sacrificing what's important to them, because people want more money, they want more time, they want more control.

But ultimately, what anybody in the coaching industry does is we help unwind all of that.

All the internal work, right? We face the shadow. Mm. And we come out better people because of it. And then we get to the point where we're like dissension? Bring it on, 'cause I know it's gonna be beautiful on the other side."

Yeah.

Kris: Right. [00:38:00] Do you have any guidance on, how to help people g- stay regulated? Like, how do, what are your main ways to help your clients do that?

Debbie: Yeah, so a couple of things, and these are not new, right? But I find that constant repetition, even of messages, sometimes it lands differently with different people.

Get good sleep.

Like, there are so many studies right now about health and good sleep, and be physically healthy, because we can't do the work that we need to do if we're not.

Kris:

Debbie: So if you're not, and I, I'm not one to say, "Watch what you put in your mouth," and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but uncover if there are things that you need help with, go find it.

Right? Um, also, in order to keep yourself regulated, this is spiritual work that we do. Regardl- like however you wanna believe, whether it's universe, Buddha, Jesus, whatever, like it is spiritual work because we, the essence of who we are, when we die our brain dies, but the essence [00:39:00] of who we are is what we're really working with here, and those belief systems and how we are.

And so honestly, it's not about adding more time to your day. It's not about, looking out and saying, "Oh, meditate every morning." I will tell you, there are things that I do to ground myself, and there are things and people in my life that I let my little girl come out and play.

We finger paint. We shoot squirrels 'cause we're like with Nerf guns, you know, joking around that we're shooting the squirrels in our brains and, like, asking them to settle down.

And you know, like those things that make you laugh. And I suggest to many clients to go buy, I think it's now $1.29, for a bag of large marshmallows. Not the huge ones, not the little bitty ones.

Kris: Yeah.

Debbie: And find a room in your house where any animals cannot get in. You lay bags down for every person in your family, and you have yours open, and you tell them when they can come in the door, and you start throwing marshmallows at them.

And it- that's [00:40:00] exactly what happens, Kris, right? Like that laughter. So if nothing else, part of regulation, and we don't laugh as much anymore.

Right? Like, I joke with my brother-in-law. I love to watch any kind of program with him because he laughs out loud.

He emotes very well. But a lot of us, me, I watch something, I'm like, "Oh, that was funny."

But I don't laugh about it.

Kris: Totally. I don't laugh out loud. I will laugh out loud on Instagram every- Right ... now and then. It's pretty funny. But yeah, I know what you mean. Right. And- Yeah ...

Debbie: and honestly, we numb out. I do it too. We numb out to the reels, to the Netflix, to those- Yeah ... things because we're tired, right?

And so some of that is regulating the committee that's in your head.

Kris: Yeah.

Debbie: But but really honestly, if you can even just get outside. When we do nature walks, I tell them, "Don't bring anything to drink. Don't bring a dog. Don't say hello to anyone. Just go out and kind of be in a state," because meditation is listening.[00:41:00]

Mm-hmm. Right? Prayer, whatever it is that you do to, like, manifest, your affirmations- Yeah ... whatever, that's asking. That's telling. Yeah. That's speaking. But we really do need to have moments, and sometimes I've even done those moments at a stoplight.

Kris:

Debbie: Okay, what am I supposed to be? Like, where's...

Open me up to whatever's happening. Tell,

Kris: tell me what I need to know.

Debbie: Yeah, exactly.

Kris: Yeah.

Debbie: Yep. And the hard part is sometimes, Kris, is a lot of people don't trust themselves when they do get the answer.

Kris:

Debbie: Right? So it comes hand-in-hand. But honestly, I don't have necessarily one specific thing, but I would say things that help me is practicing meditation.

Sometimes it's for one minute. I have an app, that I can set a timer so that I don't have to worry about having my phone. I turn my phone on airplane mode so nothing... And I turn it off the internet so nothing buzzes through. I literally go hike almost every day. Now, I have my dog with me, so that's a little different.

But I try to do a nature [00:42:00] walk at least once a month, where I literally go out, I cross a line, and that's entering my sacred walk, and I pick up a, a rock, and I imagine everything and anything I need to let go of to move forward. And I take the walk, and once I feel like that's happened, I can set the rock down.

I've thrown it before. Sometimes it's just fallen out of my hand. Then I pick up a piece of wood, because that signifies the tree of life, 'cause things grow from wood. Because nature abhors a vacuum, so wherever we make space, it's gonna fill it with something. So then I try to be mindful then, as I'm holding that piece of wood, of asking what's coming.

What do I need to be mindful of filling that space? And when I feel like that's happened, I let go of the piece of wood, leave it on the trail, then I create a line in front of me and say I'm passing out of my sacred threshold, and I step out of the threshold. I usually keep, like, a little, notebook in my purse or I'll put notes in my phone if I want to.

and I try not to take my phone, and if I do, I do turn it on [00:43:00] airplane mode so that it... nothing comes through. Mm-hmm. but I hike alone a lot, so I do take my phone just in case, right? Mm-hmm. But but I think it's so important, even if it means that you go sit on a bench somewhere.

There are m- I remember the first time I did this, I sat down, I was actually at the Gonzaga campus.

Mm-hmm. And there's this beautiful willow tree, bright yellow. Yellow is one of my favorite colors. You can't tell. A- and I sat down in this Adirondack chair, and there's an ambulance and there's a lawnmower, and I was irritated 'cause there's all this noise.

And I believe nothing's random, everything's relevant.

We just may not know what the story is at the moment, and I thought, "Oh, isn't that interesting. I have a lot of noise in my life."

Kris: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Debbie: I need to look at that, right? So it's not always about analyzing and trying to figure out, but just being open to what comes into your mind-

Mm-hmm ... when you are in that state.

So even if it's sitting for 10 minutes, if you're busy in the middle of your day, stand up and go walk outside. Go walk around the block with just no phone, no dog, no nothing, and just [00:44:00] notice.

Like, I even do it, I have to drive a mile and a half across a bridge across this lake that I live on. It's glacier-fed.

There's mountains. There's rarely a day that I don't see a bald eagle. There's wild swans that show up. So I'm constantly, as I go across that bridge, I'm just in awe of where I live, and I... That is one of my prayers, that I never lose that sense of awe. So it doesn't ha- it could be a mile when you're driving in your car.

Kris: Right.

Debbie: There are a lot of times I don't turn music on in the car. That's my thinking time, right? Where I just allow whatever comes into my head, and I try not to filter and poo-poo it.

Kris:

Debbie: Because that, when we do that, we're filtering and then we lose some stuff. And that's gonna happen- Yeah

because we've learned not to trust ourselves, right?

Kris: Right.

Debbie: So that's my biggest hack is try to get out somewhere where you can just, like, notice things around you- Yeah ... for a few minutes. Yeah. And also breathe. I think we've become a society where we don't breathe.

Kris: Yeah. Agreed.

And even- And the last thing I

Debbie: would say-

Kris: Yeah. Oh,

Debbie: go ahead. I'm sorry.

Kris: Oh, just there's this guy on [00:45:00] YouTube that I love, and he does a 10-minute, a breathing meditation, and it's, like, mind-blowing how calm I am after 10 minutes of breathing. really powerful, and it's right there.

They're built into our bodies. We don't have to go do anything, right? Yeah.

Debbie: And Kris, it actually speeds you up. You're able to get more shit done. You're able to do more things because you took the break. It's just like thinking about a printer. If you ran that... You were talking about fifth gear. If you, if you ran a printer 24/7 without stopping, it would break down a whole lot faster-

and have to be maintained a whole lot more versus- Mm ... giving it moments of maintenance.

Kris: Oh, I love it. My, my kiddo, he's eight, and his school is about a mile from here. I drive him to school in the morning, and about two blocks from his school is Forest Park, which in Portland is the biggest park, biggest urban park west of the Mississippi.

[00:46:00] And, I have this idea that I just wanna walk over there and go on a 15-minute hike. It's, like, in the middle of the woods. You would never know there's a whole city around you. and I think this conversation today has inspired me to do that, I mean- Good ... I think when I integrate it into the, the day-to-day, it just becomes so much easier.

Debbie: Yeah. And look for those moments everywhere, right? And the beautiful thing, too, is when we own our own business, there were many years that I kind of thought, "Oh, I still have to work 8:00 to 5:00," right? "I can't leave." And it took me a while to get over that and realize I could ski, downhill ski, during ski season, Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and still do work in the afternoon, right?

But I purposefully, like, I'll look at my calendar and I'm like, "Oh, like, right after we're done here, I have a few-minute break, so we're gonna go take a little bit of a walk before I do a master class." And, you know, so it's finding those moments. I will tell you, even in my car, because I do drive about three miles to work, I tend to ride my bike in the summer, I have a pair of flip-flops, I have a pair of hiking boots, and a pair of tennis shoes in the [00:47:00] back of my car with socks, right?

Because I wanna be prepared that, hey, if I do have some time, I wanna go take a walk and just be out. So sometimes it's thinking a little differently and having some things available so that when you decide spur of the moment... And in the summer, we all carry bathing suits in the back of our car in case we decide to go jump in the lake, so

Kris: yeah.

And a bottle of champagne. Yeah.

Debbie: That works too.

Kris: what is your pre-bedtime routine?

Debbie: Yeah, Kris, I'm glad you asked that actually. That's interesting. No one's ever asked me that. So I did a DNA test a while back, and what it told me is that I have the propensity to change time zones very quickly, and I do.

I change very quickly to a time zone. But what happens in that is that I do have to have a pretty, I don't wanna say rigid, but a pretty, like, succinct nighttime routine to allow my body to realize it's time to go to bed. And so before I go to bed at night, I typically try to stay up until 10:00, which is not always the easiest thing, because if I don't take my dog out between 9:00 and 10:00, I'm [00:48:00] usually up at 1:30 taking him outside.

So there's that. Yeah. That I've had to get used to another rhythm, the law of rhythm. But typically, I do my whole routine... I don't... This is terrible. Some people are gonna poo-poo me on this. I don't wash my face at night, but I do sometimes put a little oil on it, but I brush my teeth, I do my waterpik, I do my, you know, everything.

I have a mouth guard that I use for sleep apnea, so it's doing its thing, cleaning while I'm doing that. And then I typically will lay down in bed. I typically will read a little something, or I have some shows that are about 15 to 20 minutes long. I don't usually do anything, like, super inspirational or anything for...

Because I don't wanna get my head going.

Kris: Right.

Debbie: And there are times now, being the age that I am, I take probably once or twice a week, something that has, like, .5 milligrams of melatonin in it, just so that I can make sure I stay up on my sleep. But again, on- typically only about twice a week do I do that.

I also, I have all the [00:49:00] windows wide open when it's summer. However, I have fans that I put, 'cause we don't have air conditioning where I live with- because it's so north. I put these double fans in my windows to keep out the noise.

Kris:

Debbie: And to bring in the cool air, and they're set to a certain temperature.

And the reason I do that is the sun starts to come up at about 4:30 in the morning, and right now, even at 5:30 I'm waking up 'cause the sun is out, and the eagles start screeching and all of that will wake me up. So I have certain things, almost like white noise, that I keep in my... Now, my marketing person just gave me this thing, and I don't know if I can do it 'cause I don't know if claustrophobic-wise if I can have something on my face, but it's, like, a m- a mask that also has a Bluetooth in it.

But I don't know if I like that either, the Bluetooth piece of it But that you can listen to, like, meditations or have, like, grounding music on- Mm ... you know, to kind of help with that. Yeah. So I thought, "You know what? If I ever wanna do, like, a theta brain kind of 15-minute break, that's probably a really good thing."

But that's typically my nighttime routine. And, I'll turn the [00:50:00] light off, and then... And I don't read as much in bed anymore. I typically, I have a, a morning routine that I get up, I do a frequency scanner, I sit and do some reading, sometimes fiction, sometimes nonfiction. I have to force myself to read fiction.

Me too. But so I have some pretty good routines morning and night. Mm-hmm. But I would say too, one of the things that I've done a lot of research on is when you think about people that are grounded, not just monetarily successful, but they tend to have more of a routine.

And they get up and go to bed almost the same time every day.

Kris:

Debbie: Even on the

Kris: weekends. Yeah. That, for me, that's been the gift of having my boy, really. Kids really need routine, and then I realized, oh, I, I need one too. Yeah. This is perfect. Thank you.

Debbie: Absolutely. And Kris, I will tell you, I think too, looking at sleep, if... My friend Wendy, who owns a multiple eight-figure business in Florida, she takes toddler naps every day.

Kris:

Debbie: Like, literally she'll lay down for one to two hours and take a toddler nap. And so, [00:51:00] listen to your body. That's what I would say my biggest advice would be too, not just on a nighttime routine, but if you're... Like, last night I had this, like, creative spurt and I was up until 10:50.

Right? And then I'm like, "Oh, we got, I gotta get you outside and we gotta go to bed," right?

And so I went straight up, didn't read anything or, like, watch anything. I just laid down and went to bed. But ultimately, if I'm tired, I'm gonna lay down for 30 minutes to 45 minutes and let myself go into a 15-minute kinda theta brain piece of it- Mm ... and do a little meditation to just rest, and then I get up and I'm great until 10:00, 10:30 at night, right?

So owning your own business there's always... We were given a message, Kris. How many of us, probably you too, finish your homework before you go out and play, or finish your chores before you go out and play?

Kris: Yeah.

Debbie: As an entrepreneur, the work is never done, so we have just been screwed by the pooch with that one, right?

So allow yourself some grace that if you need to take a rest, take a rest.

Go lay in the grass, for crying out loud. Then you're out in nature. Yeah.

Kris: Totally. Ground. [00:52:00]

Debbie: Yeah.

Kris: okay. Today has been so much fun. I've loved this conversation. Tell us where we can find you and where we can get more of you.

Debbie: Yeah. Thank you, Kris. I think you'll probably have it in the show notes too, but I would say go out to my website. It's thelituplife.com, L-I-T for lit. And pretty much everything is there, how to get to my free group out on Facebook. On Facebook, I'm Debbie Heiser. Out on Instagram, I'm the_lituplife.

but you can find all of that even on my website, so I would just suggest going out there, so yeah.

Kris: And then you have a mastermind. You do one-on-one coaching. How do you serve your clients?

Debbie: I do. Thank you for asking, Kris. I have multiple different ways that you can work with me privately, whether that's a concierge kind of situation for a year, or if it's a three-month kind of thing, or I do just straight out VIP days.

Then I have a mastermind that runs from January to December, and I can't tell you how many coaches are like, "Let it be where people can come in and out." And I'm like, "Nope, nope, that's not the purpose for me." I wanna build a [00:53:00] strong unit because I got tired of hearing the message that being your own CEO is lonely.

I'm like, "No, that's a choice." So this group gets together. We do two trips. We just went to Mexico in February. We're going to Greece in September. I don't know what next year's are gonna be, but that... I do those. Then I have events that I run in Sandpoint. I'm doing one at the end of May called From Hello to Hell Yes, which is all about the marketing arc, and sales.

And then one in October that is called Cast Your Vision. We do nature walks. We do certain things to kinda figure out where we're stuck and really try to listen internally- ... so that we can move forward. So that's part of where I do the embodiment work with people, so yeah.

Kris: Incredible. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Thank you again for being here.

Debbie: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's been a blast. We need to just rift on things.

Kris: We really do. Let's do it again.

Is your website turning away potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a money-making messaging call with me today, and we'll transform your story into your most [00:54:00] powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Kris Jones, and I'll see you next time